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Speaker 1: Today, We've got Charles Gasparino on this show. He's a

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Speaker 1: Fox Business veteran, and we're going to ask him to

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Speaker 1: unpack this wild ride we've been on since Liberation Day,

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Speaker 1: you know, from the market volatility that we've seen in

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Speaker 1: the media's role in fueling it, to the Trump administration's

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Speaker 1: claim that they are now in trade talks with one

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Speaker 1: hundred and thirty countries. We're going to cover it all

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Speaker 1: and what could these deals mean for global trade? What

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Speaker 1: could it mean for US revenue? What could it mean

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Speaker 1: for the reshoring of manufacturing jobs to hear in the

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Speaker 1: United States. Plus we'll also tackle this intensifying US trade

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Speaker 1: war with China.

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Speaker 2: China's now slamming.

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Speaker 1: The breaks on Boeing jet orders amid these tariffs, So

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Speaker 1: can the US come out on top? Can we win

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Speaker 1: that trade war against China? And finally, we're going to

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Speaker 1: dive into Charles's new book, Gooe Go Broke, the inside

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Speaker 1: story of the radicalization of Corporate America, exploring why companies

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Speaker 1: bet big on what policies to begin with, what kind

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Speaker 1: of fallout to the experience, and why are they now

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Speaker 1: changing their tune? Stay tuned for Fox Businesses Charles Gasprino.

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Speaker 2: Well, Charles, it's great to have you on the show.

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Speaker 1: I really appreciate your making time, looking forward to getting

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Speaker 1: your insight into everything that's been going on, So appreciate it.

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Speaker 2: Anytime, we've seen a lot of volatility.

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Speaker 1: After Liberation Day, things have calmed down a little bit.

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Speaker 2: But you know, where do things stand today? You know,

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Speaker 2: how do you see it?

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Speaker 3: Well, it depends on you know who you speak to.

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Speaker 4: If you talk to people in the White House, it's

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Speaker 4: a it's a work in progress that needs to be done.

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Speaker 4: You know, I and I and I see I see

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Speaker 4: a lot of merit in what they say.

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Speaker 3: I mean there there isn't.

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Speaker 4: I mean, I don't think our trading relationships with other countries.

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Speaker 4: Where was the even playing field that it was portrayed

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Speaker 4: to be. And you know this occurred over many years.

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Speaker 4: It's solidified, it ossified. I guess it's the best way

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Speaker 4: you could put it into like the current the current

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Speaker 4: sort of regime that we have now where it looks

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Speaker 4: like and I'm gonna take you it's you know, take

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Speaker 4: out some of the sort of you know, the dubious

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Speaker 4: math that that that the Trump people threw out there

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Speaker 4: to try to figure out, you know, how many twists

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Speaker 4: we should we should how much of twists we should

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Speaker 4: charge every country because it makes Israel look like a

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Speaker 4: really bad player when they're not.

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Speaker 3: That doesn't mean they don't screw us every now and then.

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Speaker 3: But you see what I'm saying.

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Speaker 4: But I talk to a lot of people who are

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Speaker 4: just you follow this straight, and they say, yeah, you know,

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Speaker 4: we're at a disadvantage in these relationships. We give the

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Speaker 4: world a lot, we we we defend half the world,

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Speaker 4: We defend Canada and Mexico.

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Speaker 3: They come under our nuclear umbrella.

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Speaker 4: This is what we do for them, you know, and

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Speaker 4: they still charge towers, They still put our industries at

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Speaker 4: a disadvantage. And there needs to be Like I could

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Speaker 4: you could see logic in doing a reset.

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Speaker 3: The question is how do you do it?

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Speaker 4: And do you blow up this ossified regime all at once?

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Speaker 4: Do you do it piecemeal? Was now the right time?

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Speaker 4: And I think all those questions there's real questioning on

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Speaker 4: timing and approach. You know, taking a left turn, you know,

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Speaker 4: like a sharp left turn here is going to cause

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Speaker 4: tremendous amounts of confusing because it is what it is.

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Speaker 4: The globe.

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Speaker 3: Our economy is a global economy.

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Speaker 4: You know, to deglobalize it overnight is not You're going

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Speaker 4: to get more than a little what Trump saying, am

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Speaker 4: I gett.

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Speaker 3: A little crazy here? It's going to be more than

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Speaker 3: a little crazy.

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Speaker 1: But he also said to be cool, Charles, so he

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Speaker 1: said it be cool.

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Speaker 3: No, don't be panicking, right, that's a great I was trying.

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Speaker 4: I was trying to figure out what I thought baby

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Speaker 4: said pelican when he said Pannican.

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Speaker 3: But I wasn't sure.

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Speaker 4: So what I had read it twice. So you're going

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Speaker 4: to have massive amounts of upheable. Remember that foreigners own

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Speaker 4: our debt. They could sell it. They started selling it.

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Speaker 4: Last Tuesday, interest rates started a spike. They were heading

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Speaker 4: towards five percent on the ten year bond, which, if

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Speaker 4: you know anything about the bond market, that's trouble.

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Speaker 3: Right.

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Speaker 4: When that happens, consumer rates go up dramatically. That shows

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Speaker 4: you that people don't want to hold their debt. It's

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Speaker 4: just really questioned. And by the way, if the bond

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Speaker 4: market seizes up and people are selling, well, you don't

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Speaker 4: get your paycheck, right, because everybody's paycheck is based on

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Speaker 4: your company's ability to access the commercial paper market. Because

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Speaker 4: no one has the money like right there in the vaults,

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Speaker 4: right you get Fox makes its money over time. You know,

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Speaker 4: suppliers and you know, distributor agreements pay over time.

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Speaker 3: You just don't have it all there, so you roll

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Speaker 3: over commercial paper.

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Speaker 2: Is that? Why? Do you think?

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Speaker 1: That's why the Trump campaign kind of pumped the brakes

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Speaker 1: a little bit because what they were saying with the

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Speaker 1: bond market, particularly with Treasure Secretary treasuryvesent.

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Speaker 4: Yes, and they won't admit it, and you know, you'll

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Speaker 4: get pushed back, but yeah, I mean they'll say, you know,

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Speaker 4: I heard, like I heard from someone in not not

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Speaker 4: the campaign, but in the in the White House Quality

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Speaker 4: and said, no, it was the stock market's Charlie.

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Speaker 3: Wasn't the bottom?

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Speaker 4: I said, well, it's literally the same thing, and big, well,

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Speaker 4: how can you say that? I said, here's why if

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Speaker 4: bond if bond yields go to five percent on the

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Speaker 4: ten year, you're going to get a twenty percent decline

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Speaker 4: in the NASDAG.

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Speaker 3: So just so you know, it's literally the same thing.

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Speaker 4: If the economy falls into recession, that stock market's going

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Speaker 4: to go down dramatically.

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Speaker 3: I mean, it's just this is all interrelated.

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Speaker 4: The bond market actually is more is more pressing because

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Speaker 4: if you I mean we were coming off hides, right,

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Speaker 4: We had massive hies in stock. Some of it was

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Speaker 4: pumped up by biding him minute stration spending to get

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Speaker 4: Kamala Harris elected. You know, he pushed out like three

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Speaker 4: hundred billion dollars is a needless spending towards the towards

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Speaker 4: the end there. I mean, this has been documented that

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Speaker 4: pumped up the economy in the markets. That was what

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Speaker 4: it was. It was attempted to do. That was it's good,

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Speaker 4: its motus operanda. And you know Trump is at best

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Speaker 4: in the got best in the Treasury secretary has now

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Speaker 4: you know, sort of ratcheted that spending down dramatically. So

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Speaker 4: some of this this market was overvalue, there's no doubt.

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Speaker 4: So you can make the case that stock should fall

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Speaker 4: on a on a on a change in the in

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Speaker 4: the in the mindset, in the herd. But when bonds

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Speaker 4: start trading off, it's a different story. That's about confidence.

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Speaker 4: And when you lack confidence in the US dollar, in

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Speaker 4: the US economy, in the US to pay its bills,

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Speaker 4: you know, and you know, if the one thing, if

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Speaker 4: we were running two trillion dollar surplus is we're running

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Speaker 4: two trillion dollar budget deficits.

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Speaker 1: Which is is that lack of Is that lack of

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Speaker 1: confidence unnecessary though, because you know, you look at the

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Speaker 1: jobs numbers, you know they're better than expected. Inflation is

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Speaker 1: taking down. You know a lot of these earnings reports

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Speaker 1: have been solid. So was that volatility that we saw unnecessary?

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Speaker 4: Like?

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Speaker 1: Was it media driven? Was it fear driven? Was it

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Speaker 1: panic and driven?

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Speaker 4: Well, it's always it's it's a memory of stocks, these

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Speaker 4: sort of these markets always try to project rather than say, okay,

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Speaker 4: the past, right, Yes, you could say before all this started,

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Speaker 4: jobs were great, right, it's consumer confidence was great. You know,

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Speaker 4: inflation was coming down. You could say that all all that,

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Speaker 4: But that's before this started. You're trying to like, you're

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Speaker 4: trying to push out your estimates for corporate earnings if

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Speaker 4: these TIFFs go in effect, and there's no doubt they're

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Speaker 4: going to all these companies. I mean, if you really

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Speaker 4: hit Now, we don't know whether really Apple has an

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Speaker 4: exemption or not, right, is it do they or don't they?

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Speaker 4: I think they have a temporary exemption because the White

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Speaker 4: House has been kind of tucking out of both sides. Right, first,

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Speaker 4: there's and there's something that leaks out on a Friday

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Speaker 4: at ten o'clock about all these exemptions that would have

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Speaker 4: created a massive rally in tech stocks, particularly for Apple.

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Speaker 4: And the reason why is because if Apple got hit,

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Speaker 4: if all those tariffs came in the way Trump and

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Speaker 4: the White House initially proposed it, Apple stock is probably

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Speaker 4: overvalued by like fifteen to twenty percent. Okay, there's no doubt,

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Speaker 4: just given like its operations, how it produces an iPhone,

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Speaker 4: if it had to bring everything home, how it would

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Speaker 4: be triple the price at least initially. You know, things

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Speaker 4: settle out, but you know you want to pay three

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Speaker 4: four thousand dollars for an iPhone? Okay, that's probably what

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Speaker 4: would have happened if you really pushed them to do

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Speaker 4: what was stated, like given them an exemption that ratcheted

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Speaker 4: it back. Right then people were like, oh, thank god,

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Speaker 4: the Nasdaq was set yesterday for a massive rally. And

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Speaker 4: then you know, as you know, on Sunday, the presence

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Speaker 4: of now these are temporary exemptions, and then guess what happens.

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Speaker 4: You know, the rally is kind of muted. I looked

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Speaker 4: at this doctorate actually in NAZAC turned red yesterday for

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Speaker 4: a bit, and today everything looks like it's going to

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Speaker 4: open down red. And Apple even yesterday was up two percent,

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Speaker 4: it should have been up ten percent. So what I'm

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Speaker 4: saying is no one wants to take losses, all right.

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Speaker 4: What they're projecting is the policy and how the policy

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Speaker 4: impacts the balance sheet of Apple, of the of the

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Speaker 4: of corporate earnings. And no matter now, long term, this

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Speaker 4: might be great for the country long term, it may

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Speaker 4: be great for Apple for all I know. Short term,

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Speaker 4: at the very least, you know it's going to be

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Speaker 4: a problematic for their bottom line and the markets. And

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Speaker 4: then there's the question whether this could be done differently,

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Speaker 4: like not with a sledgehammer, but with a scalpel. And

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Speaker 4: I think that's kind of what Scott Best is suggesting

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Speaker 4: will happen.

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Speaker 3: But who knows. We don't know this.

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Speaker 4: There's obviously a disagreement in the White House as to

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Speaker 4: who what what approach you should take.

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Speaker 1: But I guess with the Trump administry, you know, with

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Speaker 1: President Trump, we know with the art of the deal,

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Speaker 1: he likes to pick sort of like the extreme and

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Speaker 1: then sort of maneuver his opponent into a better position.

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Speaker 1: I know, you know, I want to ask you, so

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Speaker 1: let's talk about what could happen.

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Speaker 2: Right, like, what did this back up?

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Speaker 1: Yeah?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah yeah.

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Speaker 4: Now I was one of the few people when he

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Speaker 4: was looking like a trade hawker, said no, he's going

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Speaker 4: to deal.

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Speaker 3: And I've written quote columns on it.

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Speaker 4: I was on it literally a podcast the day before

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Speaker 4: he did his ninety day pause.

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Speaker 3: I said, this is art of the deal writ large.

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Speaker 4: In my view, he's going to back off. And then

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Speaker 4: he did back off, but then he didn't back off.

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Speaker 4: And I think if you're going to do this, expect

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Speaker 4: a lot more craziness and you know market's going to

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Speaker 4: sell off.

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Speaker 3: We're going to have you know, businesses will retract.

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Speaker 4: Listen, businesses have to prepare for tomorrow, not for yesterday.

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Speaker 3: You know, you got to give them a roadmap.

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Speaker 4: If you don't get if you want to do Art

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Speaker 4: of the Deal, you know, you might have a recession

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Speaker 4: because of it.

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Speaker 3: I mean that's now maybe it's worth it just telling you.

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Speaker 4: I don't I don't know, I'm I I could see

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Speaker 4: the rationale for these Trump rejiggering trade Just telling you

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Speaker 4: to be prepared for a recession because businesses in the

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Speaker 4: face of uncertainty are going to cut back. Now, if

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Speaker 4: you interviewed someone at the Wall Street Journal editorial page,

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Speaker 4: they would say it's much worse. All right, I'm just

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Speaker 4: telling you. I'm trying to be fair here. I mean,

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Speaker 4: there's no doubt we're going to get an economic slow

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Speaker 4: down here. There's just no doubt. We're probably already in

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Speaker 4: a recession. No doubt because even left in the run

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Speaker 4: up to this thing, with the sort of talk about it,

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Speaker 4: you know, don't answer me why they were surprised.

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Speaker 3: I don't know.

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Speaker 4: The one thing if you know about Donald Trump's all

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Speaker 4: he's been talking about is towers the last two years,

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Speaker 4: is that is that businesses were starting to cut back

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Speaker 4: when the more you spoke about it post inaugural and

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Speaker 4: you know, you know, so we were already probably getting

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Speaker 4: a slow down. And then when you announced the plan,

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Speaker 4: it was a stoppage of spending, an advance and expansion

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Speaker 4: and you know whatever, you know, stuff that makes the

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Speaker 4: economy hum.

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Speaker 3: That is stopped. Now, Okay, how do you get it going?

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Speaker 4: Is I guess how long this all this takes, how

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Speaker 4: what shape it takes, you know, what type of I

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Speaker 4: guess messaging comes out of the White House.

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Speaker 3: It's this is complicated stuff.

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Speaker 1: Let's say let's say they start, you know, they say

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Speaker 1: that there's been a one hundred and thirty countries that

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Speaker 1: have reached out. Let's say they start rolling out some

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Speaker 1: of these you know, renegotiations, and you've got better trade

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Speaker 1: deals with countries, You've got more revenue coming into the country,

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Speaker 1: you start to get some restoring of you know, manufacturing

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Speaker 1: coming back to the United States, and like beefing that up.

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Speaker 1: What could that look like for the economy?

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Speaker 4: That would be great, But you're making it sound like

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Speaker 4: I don't think you're doing it on purpose, that you

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Speaker 4: can just snap your finger and that's what's going to happen.

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Speaker 2: No, I mean, I know, even trade deals.

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Speaker 1: You know, I think the average for the bilateral deals

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Speaker 1: is like one point five, but these might be less

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Speaker 1: complicated than that.

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Speaker 4: And then you know, I mean, all these deals are complicated,

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Speaker 4: and the economy is like a big ship, you know,

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Speaker 4: turn in and around from when it's going one way

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Speaker 4: to another. It's not easy. It's going to take some time.

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Speaker 4: So remember this is I mean, if you're just purely

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Speaker 4: myopically focused on the midterms, you hope it turns around

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Speaker 4: in a year, right, But you know, because there's a

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Speaker 4: lot on the line here. But I'm just telling you

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Speaker 4: this is this is difficult stuff.

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Speaker 3: I'm not saying it's the president.

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Speaker 4: I'm not going to give you the Wall Street Journal

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Speaker 4: editorial page interpretation of it.

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Speaker 3: But I can tell you that if you if you

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Speaker 3: just just to.

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Speaker 4: Say, this is the art of the deal, and he's

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Speaker 4: gonna win, and blah blah blah, there's gonna be pain,

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Speaker 4: a lot of pain here at some you know, until

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Speaker 4: we get this trade. I mean, it's gonna be a

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Speaker 4: lot of nuttiness. Markets are going to go crazy. You know,

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Speaker 4: we're gonna you know, we're gonna have some issues. And

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Speaker 4: we haven't even seen it, like how it really alls.

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Speaker 4: We've seen is like consumer sentiment numbers, you know, post towers,

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Speaker 4: which haven't been good. We haven't seen how the how

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Speaker 4: the economy is kind of reacting to it. So I

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Speaker 4: would just say, buckle up. It's going to be a

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Speaker 4: little bit of a and you know, there's good stuff

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Speaker 4: coming from the Trump with the Trump economy. He's got

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Speaker 4: tax cuts, hopefully we can get that passed, deregulation doge

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Speaker 4: all that's great stuff. Listen, Elon wouldn't have went so public,

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Speaker 4: crazy public.

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Speaker 3: If this wasn't like what the way I'm explaining it.

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Speaker 4: And that it takes a lot for a guy that's

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Speaker 4: in the White House to kind of to say what

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Speaker 4: he said, even though it's Elon is known for shooting

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Speaker 4: from the hip, He's wants to know he's in the

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Speaker 4: room with the President and all these guys, and he'd

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Speaker 4: literally called Peter Navarro the architect the art word this.

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Speaker 1: Although it seems like Besen is driving this like it

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Speaker 1: seems like Trump is really leaning on him. And I've

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Speaker 1: heard Remy you know better than me, but I've heard nothing.

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Speaker 1: But you know, he's one of the best, probably the

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Speaker 1: best Treasury sectory we've ever had, and the most qualified.

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Speaker 3: Well I wouldn't say it's the best. I mean, there's

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Speaker 3: been a lot of good ones. You know.

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Speaker 4: Bob Ruben did a great job in the nineteen nineties.

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Speaker 4: He's a really smart guy. He's been in that job

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Speaker 4: not not too long. Listen, this is a career moment

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Speaker 4: for him. He could literally save the US economy. He

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Speaker 4: could smooth the waters or this thing could blow up.

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Speaker 3: You know.

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Speaker 4: One of the problems I you know, I think is

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Speaker 4: that if you look at the approach, this should have

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Speaker 4: been a tertiary sort of or secondary concerned and policy.

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Speaker 3: Change that they made.

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Speaker 4: I mean, I still don't understand why they went for

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Speaker 4: trade when they didn't get the tax cuts, when the

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Speaker 4: economy wasn't even growing at two percent, and who knows

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Speaker 4: we were going to get a slow down anyway, right

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Speaker 4: because they were cutting back on spending. Doge was just

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Speaker 4: part of that, but they were not doing the massive

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Speaker 4: spending that the Biden did.

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Speaker 3: We were going to get some slow down.

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Speaker 4: If you're going to go and turn the world upside down,

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Speaker 4: kind of best to do it when you're I wouldn't

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Speaker 4: do it anyway. I do much more piecemeal, but best

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Speaker 4: to do it when you're growing at three percent and

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Speaker 4: then you know best and you know, have them do deals.

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Speaker 4: And that would have been the sort of, I guess,

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Speaker 4: the more logical way of doing it. But they just

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Speaker 4: didn't do that. And you know, you get the impression

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Speaker 4: that you know, listen, this is the way Trump operates.

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Speaker 4: But you know, you play with people's lives here. It's

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Speaker 4: one thing to turn the world upside down on DEI, right,

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Speaker 4: most people hate DEI. Okay, It's just like, you know,

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Speaker 4: it's one thing to build a wall and say we're

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Speaker 4: going to change our immigration policy one thousand percent. Most

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Speaker 4: people hate the fact that people can jump across a pond,

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Speaker 4: a stream and become an American citizen right and get

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Speaker 4: all our welfare benefits.

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Speaker 3: You know.

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Speaker 4: Most people kind of like tax cuts. Most people want

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Speaker 4: certain things. So these are not controversial issues. You start

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Speaker 4: screwing with the economy, you better be sure on how

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Speaker 4: you're doing it, okay, And I'm I said, I'm just

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Speaker 4: a simple country reporter. I've been doing this a long time,

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Speaker 4: thirty five years, been covering economics. Someone called me an

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Speaker 4: economic an economist the other I said, I'm not. I

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Speaker 4: just cover it, you know, so what do I know?

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Speaker 1: But but.

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Speaker 3: I just think the approach you was kind of just

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Speaker 3: not smart.

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Speaker 4: And I worry that you know, can bestn't even put

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Speaker 4: put put it back in and put the genie back

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Speaker 4: in the bottle, I mean, which is kind of what

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Speaker 4: he's trying.

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Speaker 3: And particularly when you.

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Speaker 4: Have like like multiple spokes, when you have Howard Lutnik

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Speaker 4: one day best into the next and it's you know.

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Speaker 2: Quick break.

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Speaker 1: But first Israel is still under attack, missile fire has

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Speaker 1: resumed from hu Thi's Hasbalah and hamas enemies seeking Israel's destruction.

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Speaker 1: Here in America, we cannot imagine living under constant threat

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Speaker 1: of terrorism and rocket attacks.

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Speaker 2: This is the reality in Israel.

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Speaker 1: Parents taking their children to school, falling to the ground

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Speaker 1: to lay on top of their small children, just trying

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Speaker 1: to comfort them as the sirens blair. The next attack

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Speaker 1: against Israel is happening now with little time to prepare,

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Speaker 1: so we must act now. That's why I'm partnering with

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Speaker 1: the International Fellowship of Christians and Jews to help provide

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Speaker 1: life saving aid and security essentials.

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Speaker 2: You're urgently need.

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Speaker 1: A gift today will help provide security essentials like bomb shelters,

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Speaker 1: flag jackets, and bulletproof vests.

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Speaker 2: For first responders.

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Speaker 1: Also things like armored security vehicles, ambulances, and so much more.

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Speaker 1: Join me in standing with Israel. Call to make your

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Speaker 1: gift at eight eight eight for a eight I f

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Speaker 1: c J. That's eight eight eight four a eight four

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Speaker 1: three two five, or you can go online at support

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Speaker 1: i f CJ dot org to give one word support

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Speaker 1: I f CJ dot org. The Big Wars with China.

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Speaker 1: I guess you know how do you win a trade

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Speaker 1: war with China? And then and then I want to

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Speaker 1: get it into your book because you did mention Dei

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Speaker 1: and that's a good segue.

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Speaker 4: But with China, what's interesting to me is that one way,

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Speaker 4: if you, if you, if, if you, if you surmise

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Speaker 4: it that you know, the worst economic actor out there

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Speaker 4: and trade is China. What you want to do is

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Speaker 4: build a coalition against China, which is why that ninety

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Speaker 4: day pause was created. But it was after the fact

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Speaker 4: where you kind of piss off everybody to you know

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Speaker 4: what I'm saying, so and you didn't really take the

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Speaker 4: tarofts off the table.

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Speaker 3: So that's so that's what I mean by approach.

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Speaker 4: You know, you could have said, listen, they're bad, we

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Speaker 4: want to we want to start here, and let's get

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Speaker 4: a coalition of the willing and let's do some trade

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Speaker 4: agreements with the Europeans where you know, I mean, there

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Speaker 4: was a way of doing this that that isolated China.

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Speaker 4: Now because China, will China be isolated? Listen, Chinese economy

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Speaker 4: is horrible right now. It's depending on who you talk to.

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Speaker 4: It's you know, I talk to people that study it.

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Speaker 4: It's either you know, recession or deep deep depression or

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Speaker 4: borderline depression. The Chinese manipulate their currency to keep their

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Speaker 4: their trade deficit. Uh you know, you know they did

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Speaker 4: not have a trade defferent of a massive That's how

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Speaker 4: they fund their their entire countries largesse they have. They

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Speaker 4: have like I don't know, a million people at least

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Speaker 4: in poverty.

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Speaker 3: They have huge poverty rates.

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Speaker 4: Still, you know that that's kind of a screwed up place,

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Speaker 4: you know, besides being a repressive sometimes evil regime, they

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Speaker 4: you know, they need access to our markets. There's no

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Speaker 4: doubt about that. We would like some things from them,

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Speaker 4: and we do sell stuff to them. We sell a

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Speaker 4: lot of wheat and stuff.

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Speaker 3: You know.

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Speaker 4: That's why you keep reading that Trump might bail out

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Speaker 4: the farmers, right, you read.

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Speaker 3: That all the time.

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Speaker 4: There's also a lot of manufacturers have.

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Speaker 3: Have plants in China, and you know Apple does as well.

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Speaker 4: And if you want to, if you want to destroy

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Speaker 4: Apple or throw it a wicked curve bol to or

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Speaker 4: you know, a fast pitch to that skull and knock

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Speaker 4: knock it out, forcing it overnight to put all its

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Speaker 4: plants in the US is kind of how how you

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Speaker 4: do that? And now you could say does Apple matter?

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Speaker 4: They do employ people here Apple, you know, it is

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Speaker 4: a big company that pays taxes. So just remember this

440
00:22:18,440 --> 00:22:20,959
Speaker 4: is this is all it's related. There are things that

441
00:22:21,000 --> 00:22:24,000
Speaker 4: Trump wants that of China it wants. He wants TikTok,

442
00:22:24,640 --> 00:22:27,280
Speaker 4: which they have to approve, which as of now that

443
00:22:27,640 --> 00:22:33,040
Speaker 4: tails off the table. He wants the ports in and

444
00:22:33,560 --> 00:22:36,520
Speaker 4: the Panama Canal ports to be sold to Blackstone, a

445
00:22:36,600 --> 00:22:39,959
Speaker 4: black rock, which is an American company that needs Chinese

446
00:22:40,000 --> 00:22:43,560
Speaker 4: approval g to improve it, improve it. He wants, you know,

447
00:22:43,720 --> 00:22:48,359
Speaker 4: access to their market. So there's there's negotiating here. But

448
00:22:48,840 --> 00:22:51,840
Speaker 4: you know, think about that negotiation on top of everything else.

449
00:22:52,119 --> 00:22:53,000
Speaker 4: That's a lot of work.

450
00:22:53,119 --> 00:22:53,320
Speaker 3: Man.

451
00:22:54,200 --> 00:22:56,440
Speaker 2: Although I will say, people criticize.

452
00:22:55,960 --> 00:22:59,040
Speaker 1: Trump for his approach with NATO, and he got them

453
00:22:59,080 --> 00:22:59,720
Speaker 1: to pay more.

454
00:23:01,880 --> 00:23:07,920
Speaker 4: So okay, that's an easy negotiation. You pay more because

455
00:23:07,960 --> 00:23:09,400
Speaker 4: we've been paying everything.

456
00:23:10,119 --> 00:23:11,760
Speaker 1: Isn't that what he's saying with some of these trade

457
00:23:11,800 --> 00:23:13,760
Speaker 1: deals that it hasn't been reciprocal.

458
00:23:14,040 --> 00:23:14,760
Speaker 3: Yeah, in a.

459
00:23:14,680 --> 00:23:16,160
Speaker 2: Similar vein he is.

460
00:23:16,240 --> 00:23:19,320
Speaker 3: But that doesn't send it When you say that to NATO.

461
00:23:19,160 --> 00:23:24,840
Speaker 4: Over over you know, over their their ability inability to

462
00:23:24,840 --> 00:23:27,399
Speaker 4: pay for their own defense, it doesn't it doesn't like

463
00:23:27,960 --> 00:23:30,359
Speaker 4: take the stock market down by the gazillion points.

464
00:23:30,359 --> 00:23:33,520
Speaker 3: It doesn't. People don't retrench in their business.

465
00:23:34,080 --> 00:23:37,959
Speaker 4: I guarantee when he said that, not one business cut

466
00:23:38,000 --> 00:23:42,960
Speaker 4: workers or cut expansion. And that's the difference here is

467
00:23:43,000 --> 00:23:44,560
Speaker 4: this is much more existential.

468
00:23:44,600 --> 00:23:46,400
Speaker 3: Americans care about the economy.

469
00:23:46,960 --> 00:23:49,639
Speaker 4: There's one thing I know about covering business for the

470
00:23:49,720 --> 00:23:52,960
Speaker 4: last thirty five years. It's the economy stupid. That was

471
00:23:53,000 --> 00:23:55,840
Speaker 4: the best line ever that Carville came up with. And

472
00:23:55,920 --> 00:23:58,399
Speaker 4: it's so true. And so when you start screwing with

473
00:23:58,440 --> 00:24:00,760
Speaker 4: the economy, and I know you say, well, the stock

474
00:24:00,800 --> 00:24:03,359
Speaker 4: market's not the economy, but it kind of is. You

475
00:24:03,359 --> 00:24:06,919
Speaker 4: know when you when when stocks go down, that's reacting to,

476
00:24:07,720 --> 00:24:10,040
Speaker 4: you know, where the real economy might go, particularly if

477
00:24:10,040 --> 00:24:12,359
Speaker 4: it keeps going down. Like initially I thought this was

478
00:24:12,400 --> 00:24:15,399
Speaker 4: all ds. This was like you know, things with you know,

479
00:24:15,400 --> 00:24:18,280
Speaker 4: Trump would negotiate. This is just he's just threatening. This

480
00:24:18,359 --> 00:24:21,200
Speaker 4: is before he announced the hard and fast trade rules,

481
00:24:21,560 --> 00:24:24,560
Speaker 4: and you know he would negotiate and businesses would would

482
00:24:24,640 --> 00:24:27,400
Speaker 4: you know, stop retrenching. And then when he went full on,

483
00:24:27,720 --> 00:24:30,600
Speaker 4: it was like the shot across the values. It showed

484
00:24:30,600 --> 00:24:32,800
Speaker 4: that he was serious. And then you really do have

485
00:24:32,960 --> 00:24:36,560
Speaker 4: a retrenchment if you go full on on NATO not

486
00:24:36,680 --> 00:24:40,680
Speaker 4: paying its fair share and you and you don't fund

487
00:24:40,760 --> 00:24:45,040
Speaker 4: NATO for a quarter and I'm telling you no, no

488
00:24:45,119 --> 00:24:46,480
Speaker 4: business is going to react to that.

489
00:24:47,720 --> 00:24:50,639
Speaker 1: But I'm just saying, in the similar nature where he

490
00:24:50,720 --> 00:24:53,800
Speaker 1: was criticized for his approach and his way of handling

491
00:24:53,880 --> 00:24:56,560
Speaker 1: NATO and he did get them to pay more.

492
00:24:57,119 --> 00:24:59,360
Speaker 3: I'm sure we're going to get deals out of this. Yeah,

493
00:24:59,680 --> 00:25:03,080
Speaker 3: we will. The question is alan will take and was

494
00:25:03,119 --> 00:25:04,600
Speaker 3: it worth a recession?

495
00:25:05,359 --> 00:25:07,520
Speaker 1: But when you have to calm some of the jitters,

496
00:25:07,680 --> 00:25:11,119
Speaker 1: when if he just announced like a like one or

497
00:25:11,160 --> 00:25:15,000
Speaker 1: two of here's the negotiation, Like, whenn't that kind of settle.

498
00:25:14,720 --> 00:25:15,320
Speaker 2: Because it isn't.

499
00:25:15,440 --> 00:25:18,560
Speaker 1: I mean a lot of this is reactionary, right, it's

500
00:25:18,600 --> 00:25:21,560
Speaker 1: you know, And so if you were able to outline

501
00:25:21,720 --> 00:25:23,800
Speaker 1: here are a couple of things that we've already been

502
00:25:23,800 --> 00:25:26,399
Speaker 1: able to do in negotiation, when that calms some of

503
00:25:26,440 --> 00:25:27,640
Speaker 1: these jitters.

504
00:25:27,560 --> 00:25:28,160
Speaker 3: That would help.

505
00:25:28,680 --> 00:25:31,159
Speaker 4: Yeah, I just wonder if some of this is baked

506
00:25:31,200 --> 00:25:35,600
Speaker 4: in now, by the way, if you have just I.

507
00:25:35,520 --> 00:25:38,359
Speaker 3: Mean, first off, you have to see the deals that

508
00:25:38,400 --> 00:25:38,800
Speaker 3: are cut.

509
00:25:39,000 --> 00:25:43,560
Speaker 4: You know, we don't know in this interim period you're

510
00:25:43,600 --> 00:25:46,399
Speaker 4: going to have businesses scaling back. It's just is what

511
00:25:46,440 --> 00:25:51,880
Speaker 4: it is. You will have a recession now because we're

512
00:25:51,880 --> 00:25:54,679
Speaker 4: going whole hog with China. Does that mean you know

513
00:25:55,200 --> 00:25:57,400
Speaker 4: what else happens there? I mean, they are a big,

514
00:25:57,720 --> 00:25:58,720
Speaker 4: a big player here.

515
00:25:59,520 --> 00:26:00,240
Speaker 3: We're gonna.

516
00:26:01,480 --> 00:26:04,000
Speaker 4: I guess my biggest my bigger point is once you

517
00:26:04,200 --> 00:26:08,280
Speaker 4: open this door, you know, you know, when you break it,

518
00:26:08,359 --> 00:26:10,639
Speaker 4: you kind of own it, you know what I'm saying.

519
00:26:10,680 --> 00:26:13,520
Speaker 4: And so this is not going to settle out that fast.

520
00:26:13,880 --> 00:26:15,440
Speaker 4: That doesn't mean long term.

521
00:26:15,840 --> 00:26:17,879
Speaker 2: I guess my only question would be is it broken?

522
00:26:19,359 --> 00:26:20,080
Speaker 3: It is breaking?

523
00:26:20,960 --> 00:26:24,480
Speaker 4: Yeah, And you know here's the thing, It's impossible to

524
00:26:24,520 --> 00:26:26,200
Speaker 4: break our economy totally.

525
00:26:26,560 --> 00:26:31,399
Speaker 3: Right. We are a you know, you know, we're thirty

526
00:26:31,440 --> 00:26:32,639
Speaker 3: trillion dollar economy.

527
00:26:33,760 --> 00:26:37,359
Speaker 4: It's it's very multi layered. It's not just trade is

528
00:26:37,560 --> 00:26:40,520
Speaker 4: twenty percent of it. That's big, but it's not the

529
00:26:40,560 --> 00:26:43,240
Speaker 4: biggest part obviously. But you know, you take a twenty

530
00:26:43,280 --> 00:26:45,880
Speaker 4: percent hit on something, you want to take a twenty

531
00:26:45,920 --> 00:26:47,760
Speaker 4: percent hit on your your paycheck?

532
00:26:48,520 --> 00:26:49,280
Speaker 3: Think about it.

533
00:26:50,359 --> 00:26:54,080
Speaker 2: I mean the answer is obviously no, But I don't.

534
00:26:55,040 --> 00:26:57,560
Speaker 2: I mean, I mean, you've written I mean, let you know, we.

535
00:26:57,520 --> 00:26:59,760
Speaker 1: Can talk get into your latest book but you know,

536
00:26:59,840 --> 00:27:02,480
Speaker 1: you also wrote the sellout about the two thousand and

537
00:27:02,520 --> 00:27:05,640
Speaker 1: eight financial crisis, which you know, obviously it was way

538
00:27:05,680 --> 00:27:08,280
Speaker 1: worse than where we are now.

539
00:27:10,080 --> 00:27:11,399
Speaker 2: You know, you wrote that.

540
00:27:11,480 --> 00:27:14,879
Speaker 1: Your latest book is Go Go Broke, The Inside Story

541
00:27:14,920 --> 00:27:18,159
Speaker 1: the Radicalization of Corporate America. I guess why do you

542
00:27:18,200 --> 00:27:23,679
Speaker 1: think these companies went roke? And and what were the

543
00:27:23,720 --> 00:27:26,120
Speaker 1: consequences of those companies going woke?

544
00:27:26,480 --> 00:27:26,840
Speaker 3: Yeah?

545
00:27:26,880 --> 00:27:28,800
Speaker 4: And by the way, that's why you can't when they

546
00:27:28,840 --> 00:27:30,920
Speaker 4: when you trot out Jamie Diamond and this one and

547
00:27:31,000 --> 00:27:33,080
Speaker 4: that one, it's hard to take them serious on this

548
00:27:33,119 --> 00:27:36,680
Speaker 4: thing because they engaged in some really bad behavior.

549
00:27:36,840 --> 00:27:39,120
Speaker 3: Right. They literally became a.

550
00:27:39,440 --> 00:27:43,359
Speaker 4: Arm of the radical democratic left, and they helped propagate

551
00:27:44,080 --> 00:27:46,399
Speaker 4: a lie. I think it's a lie that this country

552
00:27:46,480 --> 00:27:51,000
Speaker 4: is uniquely evil. It had a unique history of racism,

553
00:27:51,480 --> 00:27:56,960
Speaker 4: it had a unique history of slavery, it's uniquely you know,

554
00:27:57,080 --> 00:28:06,000
Speaker 4: its foundation is uniquely uh malicious on all things involving

555
00:28:07,000 --> 00:28:11,400
Speaker 4: race and sex and the sexual preference using the name

556
00:28:11,560 --> 00:28:13,400
Speaker 4: you know that that these evil.

557
00:28:13,080 --> 00:28:15,720
Speaker 3: White guys created this thing that needs to be ripped down.

558
00:28:15,920 --> 00:28:19,880
Speaker 4: That's what the left has been propagating at universities for

559
00:28:19,880 --> 00:28:22,080
Speaker 4: for many years. And then all of a sudden bingo.

560
00:28:22,359 --> 00:28:27,080
Speaker 4: Guess what corporations started adopting that. And my book kind

561
00:28:27,080 --> 00:28:31,840
Speaker 4: of tries to tries to explain the it's an explanation

562
00:28:31,880 --> 00:28:35,040
Speaker 4: of how it got there and what's and what's causing

563
00:28:35,080 --> 00:28:36,959
Speaker 4: them to back off it now is obviously you've got

564
00:28:37,000 --> 00:28:43,280
Speaker 4: a guy again doing something that most Americans support, and

565
00:28:43,320 --> 00:28:47,440
Speaker 4: that's de radicalizing not just universities, but corporations that mimicked

566
00:28:47,480 --> 00:28:50,480
Speaker 4: what the universities were doing. And I, you know, like

567
00:28:50,640 --> 00:28:53,120
Speaker 4: how they got there, It is hard to really explain.

568
00:28:53,920 --> 00:28:56,080
Speaker 4: You know, there was there was there was a shift

569
00:28:56,200 --> 00:28:59,640
Speaker 4: in attitude in the boardroom. There were much you know,

570
00:29:00,160 --> 00:29:03,080
Speaker 4: you went from Jack Welsh types who had a heavy

571
00:29:03,200 --> 00:29:07,160
Speaker 4: who were more conservative and had a heavy hand in

572
00:29:07,200 --> 00:29:12,200
Speaker 4: believing in profits over over over social issues, to a

573
00:29:12,240 --> 00:29:15,280
Speaker 4: CEO class that was more liberal, more progressive.

574
00:29:16,640 --> 00:29:20,920
Speaker 3: You also had, you know, various investment techniques.

575
00:29:20,560 --> 00:29:25,959
Speaker 4: That that caused this to happen. You had HR departments

576
00:29:25,960 --> 00:29:29,240
Speaker 4: that became radicalized to the left.

577
00:29:30,160 --> 00:29:30,920
Speaker 3: I never knew.

578
00:29:30,720 --> 00:29:34,600
Speaker 4: Anybody really wanted too HR, but somehow HR became this

579
00:29:34,720 --> 00:29:40,720
Speaker 4: sort of breeding ground of of of various theories involving

580
00:29:41,240 --> 00:29:44,720
Speaker 4: you know, how to take tell white white guys that you're.

581
00:29:44,600 --> 00:29:46,960
Speaker 3: Not qualified, and how to push everybody.

582
00:29:46,560 --> 00:29:49,960
Speaker 4: Else up the ladder based on a sort of determination

583
00:29:50,080 --> 00:29:55,040
Speaker 4: of points on your your sexuality, your your race, and

584
00:29:55,080 --> 00:29:57,600
Speaker 4: your sex. You know, it's it was just, you know,

585
00:29:57,680 --> 00:29:59,959
Speaker 4: it was white men, white women, you know what I mean.

586
00:30:00,440 --> 00:30:04,719
Speaker 4: There was this weird, this weird sort of I put it,

587
00:30:05,120 --> 00:30:08,239
Speaker 4: you know, a hierarchy that that that that came to

588
00:30:08,240 --> 00:30:12,120
Speaker 4: be with the HR departments of every major corporation started

589
00:30:12,120 --> 00:30:16,600
Speaker 4: to consider in hiring and promotion. And that's some of

590
00:30:16,640 --> 00:30:20,000
Speaker 4: that was through these investment techniques like ESG. You know,

591
00:30:20,080 --> 00:30:24,880
Speaker 4: remember Environmental Social governments involves the environment. People hated it

592
00:30:24,920 --> 00:30:27,320
Speaker 4: because it forced oil companies to cut back on oil

593
00:30:27,440 --> 00:30:30,840
Speaker 4: when we needed oil. Right, remember how oil prices spiked

594
00:30:30,960 --> 00:30:34,640
Speaker 4: during the during the Ukraine being evaded by by Russia.

595
00:30:34,720 --> 00:30:36,240
Speaker 3: We had we had massive inflation.

596
00:30:36,480 --> 00:30:38,440
Speaker 4: Well, one of the reasons why it spiked massively is

597
00:30:38,480 --> 00:30:41,800
Speaker 4: because you had ESG telling oil companies they should invest

598
00:30:41,800 --> 00:30:46,040
Speaker 4: in windmills, not oil drilling. Okay, The S and the

599
00:30:46,120 --> 00:30:49,400
Speaker 4: G part of that was interesting because that involves some

600
00:30:49,440 --> 00:30:52,240
Speaker 4: of these some of this DEI stuff that you read about,

601
00:30:52,760 --> 00:30:55,560
Speaker 4: and that became sort of a a corporate It was

602
00:30:55,600 --> 00:30:59,080
Speaker 4: almost like a sort of cult following in corporate America,

603
00:30:59,640 --> 00:31:01,080
Speaker 4: and it reached its.

604
00:31:00,960 --> 00:31:02,960
Speaker 3: High point during the George Floyd thing.

605
00:31:03,080 --> 00:31:07,680
Speaker 4: I mean literally, I uncovered in an article in Bloomberg

606
00:31:08,440 --> 00:31:13,840
Speaker 4: that said, like ninety five percent of all hiring following

607
00:31:14,160 --> 00:31:17,600
Speaker 4: the George Floyd riots did not involve a white guy

608
00:31:18,720 --> 00:31:22,760
Speaker 4: in SMP five hundred companies. It was some astronomical number,

609
00:31:23,360 --> 00:31:27,640
Speaker 4: and it was obviously rank discrimination. And then it permeated

610
00:31:27,680 --> 00:31:29,880
Speaker 4: through other ways. I mean there was a cultural issue

611
00:31:29,920 --> 00:31:33,560
Speaker 4: here too. I mean, how did you get Dylan mulvaney,

612
00:31:33,760 --> 00:31:38,360
Speaker 4: you know, a trans woman sipping a bud Budweiser half

613
00:31:38,440 --> 00:31:41,040
Speaker 4: naked in a bubble bath as a commercial. Well that

614
00:31:41,160 --> 00:31:44,960
Speaker 4: only happened because of this whole DEI and how it

615
00:31:45,040 --> 00:31:50,760
Speaker 4: permeated advertising, and and you know how that how all

616
00:31:50,840 --> 00:31:53,560
Speaker 4: that happened, And how did you get you know, Disney

617
00:31:53,760 --> 00:31:57,080
Speaker 4: doing business with China, going out of its way to

618
00:31:57,160 --> 00:31:59,800
Speaker 4: do business one of the most repressive regimes in the world.

619
00:31:59,840 --> 00:32:03,720
Speaker 4: But year at home, implementing hiring quotas that are that

620
00:32:03,920 --> 00:32:08,160
Speaker 4: go down from from from actors to producers to even

621
00:32:08,240 --> 00:32:11,440
Speaker 4: pages have to fit this intersectionality matrix.

622
00:32:12,400 --> 00:32:14,120
Speaker 3: How does they do how do they how do you.

623
00:32:14,040 --> 00:32:19,120
Speaker 4: Get Disney for god knows why just throwing in a

624
00:32:19,240 --> 00:32:21,960
Speaker 4: children's movie a same sex kissing scene that may made

625
00:32:21,960 --> 00:32:23,600
Speaker 4: no sense, right, why would you do that?

626
00:32:24,480 --> 00:32:26,520
Speaker 3: Well, it's all part of this matrix.

627
00:32:26,760 --> 00:32:31,480
Speaker 4: And you know, why would Target spend a month on,

628
00:32:32,560 --> 00:32:35,719
Speaker 4: you know, on celebrating Pride Month. Why would in its

629
00:32:35,800 --> 00:32:41,120
Speaker 4: stores when It's stores are generally targeted to use the

630
00:32:41,160 --> 00:32:45,240
Speaker 4: word target to a middle American family, some woman that's

631
00:32:45,560 --> 00:32:48,000
Speaker 4: you know, that comes in there with two kids because

632
00:32:48,000 --> 00:32:51,560
Speaker 4: they can't afford a nanny and they have to walk

633
00:32:51,560 --> 00:32:55,240
Speaker 4: by us rows and rows of rainbow colored onesies and

634
00:32:55,320 --> 00:32:57,440
Speaker 4: books about transit teenagers.

635
00:32:57,680 --> 00:33:00,440
Speaker 3: I mean, that's what happened. There's no doubt. I document.

636
00:33:00,640 --> 00:33:02,760
Speaker 1: We've got to take a quick break more with Charles

637
00:33:02,760 --> 00:33:08,800
Speaker 1: on the other side. So you mentioned Jamie Diamond. I

638
00:33:08,840 --> 00:33:11,080
Speaker 1: can't image. I mean you, I've never met the guy,

639
00:33:11,200 --> 00:33:13,239
Speaker 1: so you know him better than me. But like, I

640
00:33:13,280 --> 00:33:17,200
Speaker 1: can't imagine he subscribes to this stuff that you just

641
00:33:17,320 --> 00:33:17,760
Speaker 1: laid out.

642
00:33:17,800 --> 00:33:20,360
Speaker 2: So it's like, was he he does he did?

643
00:33:21,120 --> 00:33:23,360
Speaker 1: So is it like was it because it was held

644
00:33:23,440 --> 00:33:27,120
Speaker 1: captive or you know, is he well or does he

645
00:33:27,200 --> 00:33:27,720
Speaker 1: believe it?

646
00:33:27,800 --> 00:33:28,400
Speaker 2: You know what I mean?

647
00:33:28,480 --> 00:33:31,440
Speaker 1: Like, like, how many of these CEOs felt like they

648
00:33:31,440 --> 00:33:35,920
Speaker 1: were being held hostage by this versus you know, you know, believers.

649
00:33:36,280 --> 00:33:38,920
Speaker 4: You have to realize the sort of milieu that we

650
00:33:38,960 --> 00:33:41,560
Speaker 4: live in versus what they live in. They live in,

651
00:33:41,680 --> 00:33:46,320
Speaker 4: you know, the the upper class of Manhattan society. They

652
00:33:46,360 --> 00:33:49,760
Speaker 4: all go to Ivy League schools. It's all kind of

653
00:33:50,400 --> 00:33:53,200
Speaker 4: you know, there's a there's a there's a feedback loop

654
00:33:53,600 --> 00:33:57,240
Speaker 4: that promotes this stuff, this notion of diversity, and it

655
00:33:57,280 --> 00:34:02,640
Speaker 4: has to be rigid and almost quota like. After George Floyd,

656
00:34:02,680 --> 00:34:07,840
Speaker 4: they all felt that that that their their beliefs were

657
00:34:08,200 --> 00:34:14,480
Speaker 4: confirmed because some ex con in Minneapolis, you know, unfortunately died.

658
00:34:14,760 --> 00:34:16,520
Speaker 3: While he was being when he was resisting arrest.

659
00:34:16,600 --> 00:34:18,480
Speaker 4: That's kind of what happened, no matter which way you

660
00:34:18,520 --> 00:34:22,280
Speaker 4: put it, whether you think the cop used extras force

661
00:34:22,560 --> 00:34:25,160
Speaker 4: or didn't. He was resisting arrest, he had tons of

662
00:34:25,200 --> 00:34:28,400
Speaker 4: fentanyl in his system, he had he was not very healthy,

663
00:34:28,520 --> 00:34:31,759
Speaker 4: probably had COVID at the time, and he died, and

664
00:34:31,920 --> 00:34:36,560
Speaker 4: that unleashed this sort of massive hysteria that they were

665
00:34:36,600 --> 00:34:39,480
Speaker 4: too weak to fight back on. I remember when it

666
00:34:39,520 --> 00:34:41,160
Speaker 4: was going down. I I this is before I was

667
00:34:41,200 --> 00:34:43,160
Speaker 4: even write the book. I was like, why aren't they

668
00:34:43,239 --> 00:34:47,560
Speaker 4: saying that this is bs. Why are they allowing Why

669
00:34:47,560 --> 00:34:50,760
Speaker 4: are they, like on CNBC saying that, you know, America

670
00:34:50,840 --> 00:34:52,920
Speaker 4: is systemically racist.

671
00:34:53,160 --> 00:34:54,279
Speaker 3: I mean, why are they doing that?

672
00:34:54,400 --> 00:34:58,520
Speaker 4: They must really believe it, you know, why are they

673
00:34:58,600 --> 00:35:01,279
Speaker 4: you know, and the first Trump administration at the end,

674
00:35:02,080 --> 00:35:04,840
Speaker 4: you know, you know it was very uneven.

675
00:35:05,000 --> 00:35:06,800
Speaker 3: You know, it was we had COVID.

676
00:35:07,760 --> 00:35:10,280
Speaker 4: It was it was a strange time that that touched

677
00:35:10,320 --> 00:35:15,160
Speaker 4: off the the the wokeness in corporate America, that that

678
00:35:15,280 --> 00:35:18,480
Speaker 4: reached new highs or I would say new lows if

679
00:35:18,560 --> 00:35:22,000
Speaker 4: you ask me. But it did happen, and it was

680
00:35:22,120 --> 00:35:24,600
Speaker 4: and to think it happened overnight, you'd be wrong.

681
00:35:24,760 --> 00:35:25,040
Speaker 2: It was.

682
00:35:25,040 --> 00:35:28,200
Speaker 1: Was it good for the bottom line? Like, like, what

683
00:35:28,200 --> 00:35:32,120
Speaker 1: what was the impact to you know, to uh for

684
00:35:32,320 --> 00:35:35,040
Speaker 1: companies for the bottom line with US, I can't imagine

685
00:35:35,080 --> 00:35:37,120
Speaker 1: this was good for business, especially.

686
00:35:36,719 --> 00:35:38,799
Speaker 2: When you pointed out you know, Budweiser and bud Light.

687
00:35:39,200 --> 00:35:42,200
Speaker 4: Well, yes, it turned out to be banned at a point,

688
00:35:42,320 --> 00:35:46,680
Speaker 4: but for years it didn't matter, you know either either

689
00:35:47,480 --> 00:35:48,600
Speaker 4: consumers didn't care.

690
00:35:49,160 --> 00:35:50,839
Speaker 3: I mean, it wasn't good for Target either, by the way.

691
00:35:50,840 --> 00:35:53,080
Speaker 4: People went nuts when they when they started seeing that

692
00:35:53,160 --> 00:35:56,200
Speaker 4: one year in twenty twenty one, when they went nuts

693
00:35:56,280 --> 00:36:00,319
Speaker 4: on the the the whole the Pride celebration. I mean

694
00:36:00,320 --> 00:36:04,200
Speaker 4: we're not talking about you know, just you know, sort

695
00:36:04,200 --> 00:36:10,320
Speaker 4: of casual celebrations of of of the LBGDQ plus movement.

696
00:36:10,360 --> 00:36:14,400
Speaker 4: We're talking about like sort of overt I mean, the

697
00:36:14,680 --> 00:36:20,240
Speaker 4: market celebrated Bride more than it celebrated the fourth of July.

698
00:36:21,000 --> 00:36:26,759
Speaker 4: I mean, like in magnitudes, it's a celebrated sexuality, and

699
00:36:26,840 --> 00:36:30,279
Speaker 4: it celebrated not just a sort of passing way. It's

700
00:36:30,280 --> 00:36:33,400
Speaker 4: celebrated in terms of you know, children and you know,

701
00:36:34,000 --> 00:36:35,480
Speaker 4: bringing them into the fold.

702
00:36:35,480 --> 00:36:37,680
Speaker 3: I mean it was really quite remarkable.

703
00:36:37,760 --> 00:36:40,440
Speaker 4: You know, if you if you and I did a

704
00:36:40,440 --> 00:36:43,759
Speaker 4: lot of research on this, so I mean like you

705
00:36:43,840 --> 00:36:46,200
Speaker 4: got to ask yourself. So that caused the backlash. So

706
00:36:46,600 --> 00:36:49,719
Speaker 4: before that, I think they believe that it didn't matter.

707
00:36:51,200 --> 00:36:53,640
Speaker 4: Apple could be. Disney was a big company. It could

708
00:36:53,719 --> 00:36:55,319
Speaker 4: it made a lot of money. People kept going to

709
00:36:55,360 --> 00:36:58,720
Speaker 4: its theme parks, even if they were, you know, greeted

710
00:36:58,760 --> 00:37:02,080
Speaker 4: by a transgender under you know guy a guy with

711
00:37:02,160 --> 00:37:05,799
Speaker 4: a wig and a beard telling their kids hello. I mean,

712
00:37:06,040 --> 00:37:09,640
Speaker 4: it didn't matter that there was you know, trans or

713
00:37:10,280 --> 00:37:14,640
Speaker 4: drag queen bedtime stories, you know, you know, being around

714
00:37:14,640 --> 00:37:16,680
Speaker 4: the country, it would get we get coverage. It didn't

715
00:37:16,719 --> 00:37:19,959
Speaker 4: matter that Apple was among the most you know, woke

716
00:37:20,000 --> 00:37:23,480
Speaker 4: companies in the world, because everybody wanted an iPhone.

717
00:37:24,000 --> 00:37:26,480
Speaker 3: So for a time, it really didn't matter. And then

718
00:37:26,480 --> 00:37:27,319
Speaker 3: all of a sudden it did.

719
00:37:27,640 --> 00:37:31,600
Speaker 4: And I think the country, the consumer, the average American,

720
00:37:33,160 --> 00:37:39,000
Speaker 4: which all these companies have to appeal to, even Jamie Diamond,

721
00:37:39,800 --> 00:37:44,200
Speaker 4: you know, it's a it's you know, they revolted. And

722
00:37:44,239 --> 00:37:47,080
Speaker 4: it was interesting. I had a you know, I interviewed

723
00:37:47,160 --> 00:37:50,239
Speaker 4: Jamie Dimond's people. I interviewed Jamie about this too. You know,

724
00:37:50,320 --> 00:37:53,080
Speaker 4: they were they were arguing, like, okay, were this is

725
00:37:53,120 --> 00:37:56,440
Speaker 4: before they did they started tweaking their de I policy.

726
00:37:56,560 --> 00:38:00,319
Speaker 4: They they were a whole hog into de I. You know,

727
00:38:00,560 --> 00:38:02,439
Speaker 4: that is all over their website. And I would say

728
00:38:02,440 --> 00:38:04,799
Speaker 4: this is illegal. I would tell the PR people, and

729
00:38:04,960 --> 00:38:07,520
Speaker 4: you know, why would you say this is good? Oh, Charlie,

730
00:38:07,560 --> 00:38:09,880
Speaker 4: we make so much money. You know it must be

731
00:38:09,920 --> 00:38:12,279
Speaker 4: good because we make Okay, so you're saying you make

732
00:38:12,360 --> 00:38:14,960
Speaker 4: a lot of money, that's good. Do you realize that

733
00:38:15,000 --> 00:38:17,920
Speaker 4: you're a too big to fail bank who's borrowing rates

734
00:38:18,040 --> 00:38:21,279
Speaker 4: are subsidized by the American taxpayer. And that's how you

735
00:38:21,320 --> 00:38:24,359
Speaker 4: make money. You're a bank that which Amy Diamond runs,

736
00:38:24,400 --> 00:38:27,440
Speaker 4: and he runs it well. But literally is it just

737
00:38:27,520 --> 00:38:29,600
Speaker 4: needs to be managed. Every now and then there's a

738
00:38:29,640 --> 00:38:32,120
Speaker 4: trader who goes off the deep end and you know,

739
00:38:32,200 --> 00:38:35,759
Speaker 4: loses three hundred million dollars or whatever, three hundred billions maybe,

740
00:38:35,960 --> 00:38:38,000
Speaker 4: But when it really comes down there, their business is

741
00:38:38,000 --> 00:38:41,760
Speaker 4: pretty simple. You take in money, you pay someone one percent,

742
00:38:42,120 --> 00:38:44,640
Speaker 4: you lend out at three and that's it. And by

743
00:38:44,680 --> 00:38:50,080
Speaker 4: the way, when you need because your company is too

744
00:38:50,120 --> 00:38:53,080
Speaker 4: big to fail, which all the big banks are, the

745
00:38:53,120 --> 00:38:56,680
Speaker 4: federal government is your implicit backstop. You can borrow at

746
00:38:56,760 --> 00:39:00,520
Speaker 4: very favorable rates. That's no business gets really gets that

747
00:39:00,560 --> 00:39:03,000
Speaker 4: in America. Apple doesn't get that, just so you know,

748
00:39:03,640 --> 00:39:05,920
Speaker 4: And so I would say, you know, I would tell

749
00:39:05,960 --> 00:39:08,960
Speaker 4: him it's not brilliant, it's it's like it's luck. And

750
00:39:09,080 --> 00:39:11,200
Speaker 4: you know, and at some point people are going to

751
00:39:11,239 --> 00:39:15,279
Speaker 4: stop banking with you. If you're just gonna, if you're

752
00:39:15,320 --> 00:39:18,399
Speaker 4: just gonna, you know, virtue signal at it every tune.

753
00:39:18,400 --> 00:39:21,480
Speaker 4: And if you notice they stopped doing that, you don't

754
00:39:21,480 --> 00:39:25,320
Speaker 4: see you taking a knee anymore at a band Bank branch,

755
00:39:25,360 --> 00:39:28,280
Speaker 4: which he did during twenty twenty.

756
00:39:28,400 --> 00:39:29,719
Speaker 2: So what saved us from it.

757
00:39:31,960 --> 00:39:36,680
Speaker 4: The American consumer, the average American and some really good

758
00:39:36,719 --> 00:39:40,600
Speaker 4: people that kept reporting it and saying this was outrageous

759
00:39:40,760 --> 00:39:44,720
Speaker 4: and it's got to stop. And you know, I remember

760
00:39:44,960 --> 00:39:49,960
Speaker 4: during twenty twenty, American Express Chris Ruffo kept writing these

761
00:39:50,000 --> 00:39:52,120
Speaker 4: stories about how American Express was having and he's at

762
00:39:52,120 --> 00:39:54,400
Speaker 4: the Manhattan who did a really good job in this,

763
00:39:55,080 --> 00:39:59,919
Speaker 4: kept reporting about how American Express having CRT, kept teaching

764
00:40:00,000 --> 00:40:03,080
Speaker 4: there there are people's you know, critical race theory, and

765
00:40:03,120 --> 00:40:06,279
Speaker 4: he got into the nitty gritty just how absurd it was, right.

766
00:40:06,880 --> 00:40:08,480
Speaker 4: I mean, it was really saying like if you're a

767
00:40:08,520 --> 00:40:09,479
Speaker 4: white guy, you're a band.

768
00:40:09,600 --> 00:40:09,799
Speaker 3: You know.

769
00:40:09,880 --> 00:40:13,279
Speaker 4: It was just it was just it was superficially it

770
00:40:13,280 --> 00:40:17,880
Speaker 4: was it was superficial analysis and inherently racist and divisive.

771
00:40:18,120 --> 00:40:22,080
Speaker 4: I mean, it was disgusting. And I remember calling up,

772
00:40:23,440 --> 00:40:25,680
Speaker 4: uh Americans.

773
00:40:25,680 --> 00:40:27,920
Speaker 3: Trust. I was like, I was trying to get someone

774
00:40:27,960 --> 00:40:28,319
Speaker 3: on the phone.

775
00:40:28,360 --> 00:40:30,239
Speaker 4: Wouldn't answer my calls about this, So I just kept

776
00:40:30,239 --> 00:40:33,640
Speaker 4: writing about it. Finally someone called me back and I said,

777
00:40:33,840 --> 00:40:35,880
Speaker 4: you know, with all due respect, you do have the

778
00:40:36,000 --> 00:40:38,200
Speaker 4: nick word American in your name.

779
00:40:38,920 --> 00:40:40,040
Speaker 3: How is this American?

780
00:40:41,360 --> 00:40:45,279
Speaker 4: And I think by pointing that out, by pointing out

781
00:40:45,320 --> 00:40:50,680
Speaker 4: that wokeism and DEI is just everything this country stands against.

782
00:40:51,120 --> 00:40:54,160
Speaker 4: That doesn't mean we don't want diversity. We shouldn't be mandated.

783
00:40:54,680 --> 00:40:57,560
Speaker 4: No one wants to mandate. And by the way, we

784
00:40:57,640 --> 00:41:01,080
Speaker 4: need a functioning meritocracy, okay, if we're going to keep up.

785
00:41:01,080 --> 00:41:05,040
Speaker 4: That's something that Elon keeps bringing out. I think I

786
00:41:05,080 --> 00:41:08,120
Speaker 4: think that's what turned it. And speaking about Elon, I

787
00:41:08,120 --> 00:41:12,000
Speaker 4: think freeing Twitter from the clutches of the left. Did

788
00:41:12,280 --> 00:41:16,640
Speaker 4: you know literally changed the zeitgeist in this country on

789
00:41:16,680 --> 00:41:19,440
Speaker 4: this matter. The fact that you can argue this on

790
00:41:19,480 --> 00:41:22,880
Speaker 4: Twitter without being shadow band or or thrown off or

791
00:41:22,920 --> 00:41:26,080
Speaker 4: attacked by a liberal mob when you had no defense.

792
00:41:26,920 --> 00:41:31,120
Speaker 4: You know, it was it was that was that was key.

793
00:41:31,120 --> 00:41:33,400
Speaker 4: I mean it was I'll give you a personal example.

794
00:41:34,440 --> 00:41:38,319
Speaker 4: During the campaign, I did a column for The Post

795
00:41:38,400 --> 00:41:42,640
Speaker 4: that said, you know, Joe Biden drops out Kamala Harris

796
00:41:42,640 --> 00:41:46,080
Speaker 4: could be the first DEI candidate for president and maybe

797
00:41:46,080 --> 00:41:50,520
Speaker 4: the first president who's a DEI who's there for DEI.

798
00:41:50,640 --> 00:41:53,480
Speaker 4: And I said, what you know, Joe Biden said to himself,

799
00:41:54,160 --> 00:41:56,319
Speaker 4: the E starts at the top of his administration.

800
00:41:56,560 --> 00:41:58,160
Speaker 3: Everybody knows she's not qualified.

801
00:41:58,239 --> 00:42:01,480
Speaker 4: Everybody knows why she was fit picked for the for

802
00:42:01,560 --> 00:42:02,879
Speaker 4: the thing and this is a horrible thing.

803
00:42:02,920 --> 00:42:04,520
Speaker 3: And I used it.

804
00:42:04,480 --> 00:42:09,000
Speaker 4: To tell my book. I got like wickedly attacked. I mean,

805
00:42:09,280 --> 00:42:13,319
Speaker 4: Gavin Newsom said my column was racist. You know this guy,

806
00:42:13,520 --> 00:42:18,000
Speaker 4: you know MSNBC. I was attacked by Joey Reid. And

807
00:42:18,040 --> 00:42:22,439
Speaker 4: then I noticed something else. I got wickedly supported. Then

808
00:42:22,760 --> 00:42:25,279
Speaker 4: then Shapiro came out and supported me.

809
00:42:25,840 --> 00:42:28,120
Speaker 3: You name it. They came out and.

810
00:42:28,080 --> 00:42:31,200
Speaker 4: I pointed, how stupid Gavin Newsom is, how stupid Rick

811
00:42:31,239 --> 00:42:32,880
Speaker 4: Gronell came out supported me he is now in the

812
00:42:32,880 --> 00:42:35,960
Speaker 4: Trump administration. It was down the line, and how obviously

813
00:42:36,280 --> 00:42:40,400
Speaker 4: I was telling the truth back in twenty twenty that

814
00:42:40,440 --> 00:42:48,320
Speaker 4: could never have happened. Okay, So Elon has allowed Twitter

815
00:42:48,719 --> 00:42:51,280
Speaker 4: for us, allowed us to tell the truth on Twitter,

816
00:42:52,239 --> 00:42:54,640
Speaker 4: and that's and that changed the culture in a major way.

817
00:42:55,600 --> 00:42:58,960
Speaker 3: And Trump said everybody should be grateful to him for that.

818
00:43:00,440 --> 00:43:03,480
Speaker 1: I think Trump's helped too, of just sort of resetting.

819
00:43:04,480 --> 00:43:07,080
Speaker 4: Trump has helped, but I think he's also a symptom.

820
00:43:07,719 --> 00:43:09,600
Speaker 4: He also benefited from what Elon did.

821
00:43:10,320 --> 00:43:11,280
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, totally.

822
00:43:11,320 --> 00:43:15,880
Speaker 1: But I'm saying in terms of being so outspoken again,

823
00:43:15,920 --> 00:43:18,880
Speaker 1: like giving people like you know, sort of someone to

824
00:43:18,920 --> 00:43:22,040
Speaker 1: turn to who's not subscribing to all this nonsense on

825
00:43:22,080 --> 00:43:23,120
Speaker 1: such a big stage.

826
00:43:23,280 --> 00:43:26,960
Speaker 3: I agree with that, but I don't think it's the

827
00:43:27,000 --> 00:43:27,439
Speaker 3: same thing.

828
00:43:27,480 --> 00:43:32,200
Speaker 4: I think Trump was allowed to flourish because Twitter became

829
00:43:32,360 --> 00:43:36,319
Speaker 4: an opinion free zone. Like a free opinion zone, I

830
00:43:36,320 --> 00:43:39,040
Speaker 4: should say, not opinion free. It's got plenty of opinion

831
00:43:39,719 --> 00:43:41,960
Speaker 4: depending where you put that qualifier.

832
00:43:41,800 --> 00:43:46,320
Speaker 3: Change the sentence, meeting, you know. We here's a perfect example.

833
00:43:47,480 --> 00:43:50,320
Speaker 4: Remember when he had the debate with Kamala Harris and

834
00:43:50,920 --> 00:43:53,680
Speaker 4: he said, they're eating the cats, they're eating the dogs.

835
00:43:54,560 --> 00:43:55,879
Speaker 3: Yes, they were having that.

836
00:43:55,760 --> 00:43:58,760
Speaker 4: Discussion about what's going on in Springfield, whether the mass

837
00:43:58,800 --> 00:44:01,879
Speaker 4: immigration and you know, the people in the world.

838
00:44:01,960 --> 00:44:04,080
Speaker 1: Though I do think there was some eating of the

839
00:44:04,120 --> 00:44:06,040
Speaker 1: animals that did that take place?

840
00:44:06,040 --> 00:44:07,760
Speaker 3: So yes, well that's my point.

841
00:44:08,000 --> 00:44:11,839
Speaker 2: Yeah, the animals. How would know that?

842
00:44:12,320 --> 00:44:12,520
Speaker 3: Right?

843
00:44:13,719 --> 00:44:16,120
Speaker 4: You only knew that because you saw, you know, someone

844
00:44:16,280 --> 00:44:19,600
Speaker 4: baking a cat, you know, somewhere near Springfield, and then

845
00:44:19,640 --> 00:44:22,200
Speaker 4: you read about how they were pulling ducks out of

846
00:44:22,239 --> 00:44:24,960
Speaker 4: the lakes over there, and then you started to and

847
00:44:25,000 --> 00:44:28,200
Speaker 4: then you started to because of Twitter, because Elon kept

848
00:44:28,239 --> 00:44:30,880
Speaker 4: it free. You you kind of understood that we're talking

849
00:44:31,040 --> 00:44:33,200
Speaker 4: It's much more than just eating the cats and the dogs.

850
00:44:33,239 --> 00:44:38,880
Speaker 4: We're talking about a massive cultural social transformation forced on

851
00:44:38,960 --> 00:44:44,160
Speaker 4: a working class town because of unfettered immigration. And then

852
00:44:44,239 --> 00:44:47,879
Speaker 4: people started seeing that what Trump was saying was kind

853
00:44:47,880 --> 00:44:48,879
Speaker 4: of was kind of right.

854
00:44:49,960 --> 00:44:50,320
Speaker 3: Uh.

855
00:44:50,480 --> 00:44:53,560
Speaker 4: Then on top of it, because of Twitter and social media,

856
00:44:54,120 --> 00:44:57,320
Speaker 4: kids were doing dance videos and it mocked the racist

857
00:44:57,520 --> 00:45:02,239
Speaker 4: tro troupe that you know, people like racial Maddow try

858
00:45:02,280 --> 00:45:03,719
Speaker 4: to try to paint ads.

859
00:45:03,760 --> 00:45:04,600
Speaker 3: Do you see what I'm saying.

860
00:45:04,960 --> 00:45:07,880
Speaker 4: Yeah, because there was a there was a free there

861
00:45:07,960 --> 00:45:11,640
Speaker 4: was a free space to do it at because the

862
00:45:11,680 --> 00:45:14,279
Speaker 4: newspapers weren't going to do it. Fox is only one

863
00:45:14,360 --> 00:45:19,200
Speaker 4: day one station and on Newsmax, a smaller station. Most

864
00:45:19,200 --> 00:45:22,960
Speaker 4: of the mainstream media is still exkews, you know, wickedly left.

865
00:45:24,120 --> 00:45:27,440
Speaker 4: But because of Twitter, you know that it was counterbalance

866
00:45:27,480 --> 00:45:30,279
Speaker 4: and I think that that accounted for Trump's victory in

867
00:45:30,480 --> 00:45:31,120
Speaker 4: a major way.

868
00:45:31,840 --> 00:45:33,560
Speaker 2: No, I agree.

869
00:45:34,440 --> 00:45:37,040
Speaker 1: It also just kind of made things fun again because

870
00:45:37,080 --> 00:45:39,359
Speaker 1: people were like, you know, putting up funny memes and

871
00:45:39,400 --> 00:45:42,760
Speaker 1: being able to laugh and like talking about things like it's.

872
00:45:42,600 --> 00:45:45,240
Speaker 3: Like the rap videos with cats.

873
00:45:47,040 --> 00:45:49,560
Speaker 1: So but look, there's also like a song.

874
00:45:49,800 --> 00:45:51,879
Speaker 2: Uh, you know, people made songs.

875
00:45:53,040 --> 00:45:54,680
Speaker 3: We were listening to the other day laughing.

876
00:45:55,360 --> 00:45:58,759
Speaker 4: It was a there was a rapper that that did

877
00:45:59,640 --> 00:46:01,840
Speaker 4: you know that I had Trump dancing in the background

878
00:46:01,920 --> 00:46:05,120
Speaker 4: with cats and I'm just I'm not going to do

879
00:46:05,160 --> 00:46:05,680
Speaker 4: it justice.

880
00:46:05,719 --> 00:46:07,520
Speaker 3: You can look it up. It was really funny.

881
00:46:07,600 --> 00:46:10,440
Speaker 1: Well, yeah, the dynamics have changed and in the books

882
00:46:10,440 --> 00:46:13,360
Speaker 1: out now, so everyone should go check it out. Charles Gasprino,

883
00:46:13,560 --> 00:46:18,240
Speaker 1: good stuff, really interesting conversation and the book sounds super interesting,

884
00:46:18,280 --> 00:46:19,919
Speaker 1: so people should go out and get it. Go Woke,

885
00:46:19,960 --> 00:46:23,600
Speaker 1: Go Broke, the inside story of the radicalization of Corporate America.

886
00:46:23,719 --> 00:46:25,319
Speaker 1: We appreciate your time, Charles, Thank you so.

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00:46:25,320 --> 00:46:26,680
Speaker 3: Much, Begs Lisa.

888
00:46:27,280 --> 00:46:30,040
Speaker 1: That was Charles Gasprino with Fox Business.

889
00:46:29,719 --> 00:46:31,800
Speaker 2: Also the author of Go Woke, Go Broke.

890
00:46:32,239 --> 00:46:34,040
Speaker 1: We appreciate him for taking the time to come on

891
00:46:34,040 --> 00:46:36,120
Speaker 1: the show. Appreciate you guys at home for listening every

892
00:46:36,160 --> 00:46:38,359
Speaker 1: Tuesday and Thursday, but you can listen throughout the week

893
00:46:38,520 --> 00:46:39,279
Speaker 1: until next time.