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Speaker 1: This program features the individual opinions of the hosts, guests,

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Speaker 1: and callers, and not necessarily those of the producer, the station,

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Speaker 1: it's affiliates or sponsors. This is True Crime Tonight.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to True Crime Tonight on iHeartRadio. We're talking true

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Speaker 2: crime all the time. It's Monday, January fifth, and hopefully

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Speaker 2: you all got back to school and work and life

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Speaker 2: in the most merriest of ways. Lots of developments and yes,

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Speaker 2: we have a stacked night of headlines. A judge has

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Speaker 2: finally ruled on the fate of the slender Man stabber.

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Speaker 2: We discussed this before the break, following of course her escape,

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Speaker 2: and you know, we also talked about Epstein a bit

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Speaker 2: last night. So we're going to break down some of

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Speaker 2: the things that we find to be the most shocking

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Speaker 2: of the files released so far, including some of the photographs. Also,

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Speaker 2: a California farming tycoon has been arrested for the murder

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Speaker 2: of his estranged white very important case that we'll be following,

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Speaker 2: you know, very carefully. And also the Idaho student murders.

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Speaker 2: Ryan Coberger's sister speaks out for the very first time.

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Speaker 2: We obviously want to unpack that in so much more.

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Speaker 2: I'm Stephanie Leidecker and I had Kat Studios where we

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Speaker 2: make true crime podcasts and documentaries and I get to

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Speaker 2: be here every night with my true crime mates, Courtney

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Speaker 2: Armstrong and Body move in and Taha House, our producer

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Speaker 2: is back from Vaca.

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Speaker 3: I missed you so much.

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Speaker 4: How the vacation, the holiday that we had was great.

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Speaker 4: I had a great Christmas with family. Ate too much.

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Speaker 4: I'm like a thousand pounds now too. But could I

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Speaker 4: say I missed you guys so much that I actually

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Speaker 4: was listening to some of them over the like every

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Speaker 4: so often go for a job to lose a little

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Speaker 4: wait and then listen to the shows, and I was like,

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Speaker 4: I missed them. I missed the faces, I missed the energy.

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Speaker 2: Same and that's smile for Miles is back in the house,

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Speaker 2: and of course we have Sam and Adam with us as.

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Speaker 4: I miss Sam and Adam. Hey, guys, how are you guys?

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Speaker 3: We're doing well. We missed you too, Taha. We got

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Speaker 3: the whole gang back tonight. That's right.

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Speaker 4: And youthful. Did everyone? Did people get botox or go

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Speaker 4: to holiday places?

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Speaker 5: No?

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Speaker 2: But I am getting a laser facial on Thursday. Full disclosure.

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Speaker 2: So we'll have to do it before and after. I

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Speaker 2: don't know much how to but in mind, so, yeah,

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Speaker 2: I want to jump Friday into tougher topics. But we

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Speaker 2: had talked this about this a little bit last night.

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Speaker 2: Sarah Grace, you know, the young girl who was accused

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Speaker 2: of murdering her mother and her stepfather why they slept?

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Speaker 3: Sarah Grace Patrick.

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Speaker 2: Her trial was supposed to start today, but it is

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Speaker 2: being pushed you know, we think until August. So you know, ladies,

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Speaker 2: do you want to do a little backstory on that body.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, so that was supposed to start today.

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Speaker 6: Jury selection in the Sarah Grace Patrick trial was supposed

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Speaker 6: to start today, but a judge pushed back the trial.

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Speaker 6: She's seventeen years old. Her name is Sarah Grace Patrick.

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Speaker 6: The trial is going to begin now in August of

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Speaker 6: twenty twenty six. She is charged as an adult in

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Speaker 6: the February twenty twenty five shooting deaths of her mom,

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Speaker 6: Kristen Brock, and the stepfather, James Brock, inside their Georgia home. Remember,

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Speaker 6: you know, we were all like, oh my gosh, and

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Speaker 6: she was on TikTok making after it happened and before

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Speaker 6: she was arrested obviously, you know, asking TikTok True Crime

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Speaker 6: creators to cover the case, and she was making videos saying,

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Speaker 6: you know, how sad she was, but she was very performative.

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Speaker 3: It was very in hindsight, right.

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Speaker 6: So she was arrested for the murder, and the trial

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Speaker 6: was supposed to begin today but it got pushed back

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Speaker 6: to August.

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Speaker 7: And you know, we did talk about how swift it

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Speaker 7: was and we were surprised, and even the judge before

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Speaker 7: today had you know, thanked both parties of saying thank

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Speaker 7: you for acting so exobus right, expediently. So not a

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Speaker 7: huge surprise those bit since it was going to start.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, I mean, I just I was expecting to wake

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Speaker 6: up this morning and you know hear about jury selection,

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Speaker 6: and when it didn't happen, I was like, oh, I

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Speaker 6: don't know.

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Speaker 3: It was just very surprised.

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Speaker 6: I was also very surprised at how quickly it kind

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Speaker 6: of snuck up on us too. But so anyway, the

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Speaker 6: judge's name is Dustin high Tower, and he rescheduled the

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Speaker 6: jury selection for August third, and said there is little

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Speaker 6: to no chance another delay will be granted. The trial

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Speaker 6: has been delayed because the defense said a key neural

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Speaker 6: psychological evaluation was still not complete, so something that they

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Speaker 6: needed for the defense wasn't complete.

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Speaker 3: So they needed to push back the trial.

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Speaker 6: She's been denied bond and she faces multiple charges, including malice, murder,

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Speaker 6: felony murder, aggravated assault, and weapons offenses. Authorities have said

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Speaker 6: mountains of evidence led to accuse her of this crime,

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Speaker 6: while some friends and supporters continue to publicly maintain that

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Speaker 6: she said is you know, her grandfather is really standing

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Speaker 6: by her side and all this, and I think he's

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Speaker 6: you know, I'm glad that she has him because she

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Speaker 6: is she's still a kid. You know, yeah, she's still

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Speaker 6: a kid. But you know, it's just very sad.

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Speaker 3: And what she's been accused of is so young.

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Speaker 2: It's unbelievable. I mean, think about it, a young girl

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Speaker 2: having access to a the weapon. Also your mom r

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Speaker 2: and we talked about this a bit last night. That's

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Speaker 2: very rare in a different case, of course, and stepdad.

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Speaker 2: You have to assume maybe there's some sort of a

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Speaker 2: backstory there, and maybe this is a why done it?

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Speaker 2: More than a who done it? But I think it's really,

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Speaker 2: you know, so sad and for their grandfather, Thankfully she

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Speaker 2: has somebody in her corner, because what if she didn't

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Speaker 2: do it?

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Speaker 6: Well she yeah, but they do say they have mountains

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Speaker 6: of evidence. And you know, we have to remember too

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Speaker 6: that you know, they were found dead in their bed

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Speaker 6: by this their six year old.

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Speaker 3: So Sarah's little sister.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, the youngest she was, her half sister found them

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Speaker 6: in bed and she's I mean, that's horrific. If Sarah

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Speaker 6: is guilty of this, you know, I mean, she is

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Speaker 6: being tried as an adult, so it be pretty heinous.

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Speaker 6: She did post emotional tiktoks about her parents' death and

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Speaker 6: message to crime creators, like I said, asking them to

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Speaker 6: cover her parents' case, which was really unusual. And I

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Speaker 6: kind of wonder if those people are going to be,

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Speaker 6: you know, summoned to court to see if they'll, you know,

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Speaker 6: talk about their you know, maybe if they responded to her,

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Speaker 6: or you know, did she talk to them about the crime.

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Speaker 3: I'm very interested in this case.

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Speaker 2: So am I. And is it possible that you could

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Speaker 2: be that performative? I mean, she also did trinology at

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Speaker 2: the funeral and spoke so lovingly about her mom. She

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Speaker 2: was crying. You reminded us of the tiktoks and all

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Speaker 2: of the social media that she was doing. Again, maybe

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Speaker 2: I'm the gullible one, but I thought it was all

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Speaker 2: really heartbreaking and found myself choking up when I would

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Speaker 2: hear her speak, and to think that that could have

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Speaker 2: been just an act. I honestly my hearder parts. I

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Speaker 2: still can't believe it. I'm hoping it's not right.

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Speaker 7: Well, even I remember when this was happening, because it

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Speaker 7: was it was a shock when Sarah grays Past was arrested.

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Speaker 7: And you know, really those videos can be viewed in

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Speaker 7: one of two ways, one performative and trying to get

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Speaker 7: attention for some unmet need who knows, or you know,

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Speaker 7: just a teenager, and teenagers we are filled with with

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Speaker 7: answers and emotion and your emotion and you know, if

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Speaker 7: indeed she did not do it, then any range of emotion.

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Speaker 6: Imagine what it would be like if social media was

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Speaker 6: around when you were teenagers.

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Speaker 4: Oh my god, I can't do you know what I mean.

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Speaker 3: Because you bring up a good point, Courtney.

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Speaker 6: She's a teenager, and I mean we are full of emotions,

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Speaker 6: and we also, I mean we're also very performative and

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Speaker 6: want the attention as teenagers. Right, we're overly dramatic about everything, right, sure? Yeah, So,

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Speaker 6: I mean, thank god it wasn't around when I was

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Speaker 6: a teenager, because only only I would be I would

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Speaker 6: be mortified.

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Speaker 3: I would have never had a job. I would never

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Speaker 3: have had a job, one hundred percent.

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Speaker 2: And also to that end, and I know we're following

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Speaker 2: a couple of cases even this evening that include minors.

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Speaker 2: It's really tough stuff because I get really conflicted on

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Speaker 2: this because even her being tried as an adult, you know,

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Speaker 2: your frontal lobes aren't fully developed at that age. You're

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Speaker 2: making very rash decisions, not really fully maybe understanding the consequences.

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Speaker 3: Her father, her birth father.

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Speaker 2: You know, she allegedly murdered her mother and stepfather, but

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Speaker 2: her birth father is the one that kind of went

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Speaker 2: with her to turn herself in. So she does have

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Speaker 2: some support, does people in her corner, and maybe they

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Speaker 2: know more than we do.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, So that's what's going on with Sarah Grace Patrick.

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Speaker 6: And well, you know, of course we'll continue to follow

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Speaker 6: any pre trial motions updates that happened, but the.

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Speaker 3: Trial is not scheduled now until August.

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Speaker 4: So see what happens when that's when I've been dying to.

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Speaker 4: I want to follow that one and the other one

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Speaker 4: that you know we have an update on to Stephanie's

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Speaker 4: point with teenagers is the slender Man? Oh that young

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Speaker 4: girl like, that's another one where I couldn't get past

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Speaker 4: and Quitney. I know there's some news with that one.

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Speaker 7: Yeah, absolutely So just to bring up a reminder. On

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Speaker 7: December twenty third of last year, so just a few

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Speaker 7: weeks ago, December twenty third, a judge ruled that the

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Speaker 7: twenty three year old slender Man stabber, her name is

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Speaker 7: Morgan Geyser, that she has to be sent back to

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Speaker 7: a state psychiatric hospital. And this ruling comes after she

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Speaker 7: escaped from her group home. Now, Morgan Geyser was twelve

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Speaker 7: years old when she was involved in this twenty fourteen

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Speaker 7: slender Man stabbing of her classmate.

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Speaker 3: I'm sure we all remember that.

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Speaker 4: Such a shocker it was.

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Speaker 7: Her classmate was twelve year old Peyton Lutner, who unbelievably

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Speaker 7: lived and survived this attack. Ultimately, Morgan Geyser was found

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Speaker 7: not guilty because of mental illness, and Geyser then was

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Speaker 7: committed to a state mental health facility for up to

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Speaker 7: forty years. But and this was controversial, Geyser was released

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Speaker 7: to a group home in early twenty twenty five, and

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Speaker 7: it was a privilege that now has been indefinitely revoked.

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Speaker 2: Slightly unsurprising, right, so it seems as though she really

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Speaker 2: clearly had mental issues from day one. Even her own

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Speaker 2: mother at the time spoke out about that. Again, tough

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Speaker 2: spot to be in. Can you imagine your twelve year

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Speaker 2: old daughter commits a crime? Life is over? Thankfully the

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Speaker 2: victim survived, I mean thankfullyness, but barely. We remember she

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Speaker 2: had to crawl her way out of the woods into

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Speaker 2: a highway, you know, nearing death and live to tell

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Speaker 2: the tale, thankfully. But again, at twelve years old, do

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Speaker 2: you never see the light of day again till the

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Speaker 2: end of days? Is that appropriate? It's such a complicated issue.

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Speaker 3: I don't have the answer. It's very tough.

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Speaker 7: But in this I have to say, in this case,

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Speaker 7: and you know, I don't know how you don't paint

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Speaker 7: with a broad brush, like there's no way to paint

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Speaker 7: with a fine brush, which is what I'm doing. But

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Speaker 7: in this case, Morgan Geyser was deemed very mentally ill,

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Speaker 7: very severely mentally ill, and you know, there are some

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Speaker 7: times where people cannot be potentially rehabilitated to a sufficient

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Speaker 7: capacity to live on their own.

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Speaker 3: They're just it's an.

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Speaker 6: Ens But there might be no medical advances. Maybe in

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Speaker 6: you know, ten years, maybe there'll be a cure maybe

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Speaker 6: for schizophrenia. And you know, this might be something that

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Speaker 6: we're going to be experiencing with the Rhiner case too.

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Speaker 2: I think we need to unpack this so much further

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Speaker 2: because listen, the schizophrenia angle mental illness, you know, being

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Speaker 2: unchecked and unrecognized and loved ones. It's really hard to

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Speaker 2: see a loved one through that lens. And of course

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Speaker 2: you want to make excuses for them or you want

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Speaker 2: to believe the best in somebody, and sometimes the you know,

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Speaker 2: the cards are stacked against you. Imagine as a mother

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Speaker 2: looking at your young girl knowing that something's a bit off.

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Speaker 3: You know, the two of them.

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Speaker 2: Who are there, the two accused in committing this crime.

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Speaker 2: You know, it was just as the perfect storm. Maybe

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Speaker 2: had those two young girls not met at that age,

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Speaker 2: who knows what would have happened. But yeah, it's a

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Speaker 2: tough one.

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Speaker 7: And it was Morgan Geyser twelve and anisso weir who

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Speaker 7: now has been She received a twenty five year commitment.

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Speaker 3: And is now out.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, she was straight up released.

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Speaker 3: M hm. She is released and at home.

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Speaker 7: And so just to wrap up Morgan Geyser, if you

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Speaker 7: guys remember, it was back in November, she put off

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Speaker 7: her GPS monitor, left the group home that she had

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Speaker 7: been released to, was found the next day nearly two

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Speaker 7: hundred miles away from her home in Illinois, and was

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Speaker 7: taken back into custody. And at this point her lawyers

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Speaker 7: have said they will not appeal the decision to try

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Speaker 7: and break her out of the mental health facility.

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Speaker 3: Again.

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Speaker 2: You remember, she had a friend, she met somebody at church,

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Speaker 2: you know, they developed a relationship and they aided in

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Speaker 2: her escape. So that's a very key part of this

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Speaker 2: as well, is not only was she in this group home,

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Speaker 2: but she was getting these outside visits, either to go

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Speaker 2: to church or maybe to see family who knows, but

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Speaker 2: certainly at church she developed a relationship with someone who

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Speaker 2: was much older, and that said older person basically aided

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Speaker 2: their aided their escape and now has just added years

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Speaker 2: and years and years to this troubling sentence.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I think that's part of the problem, Like maybe

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Speaker 4: she should not be interacting with someone else. And you know,

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Speaker 4: I just feel well.

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Speaker 6: It seems like when she does, she just gets in trouble. Yeah,

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Speaker 6: I mean, you know, she meets a friend in school

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Speaker 6: when she's little, she gets in trouble. She meets this person.

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Speaker 6: I don't even know who the person. Keep in mind,

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Speaker 6: I can't remember. Also, it was a birthday party.

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Speaker 2: I remember she was having a straight up sleep to

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Speaker 2: her she and Anelitza were having a sleepover. They invite

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Speaker 2: over Peyton twelve years old for an overnight and you know,

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Speaker 2: very very sweet and lovely, and who hasn't done that?

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Speaker 2: You always want to be included, So you want a

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Speaker 2: best friend at that age. God who didn't want a

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Speaker 2: best friend at twelve years old?

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Speaker 8: Right?

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Speaker 2: So three young girls, they're under mom's supervision. In the morning,

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Speaker 2: after breakfast, they stroll out to the woods. You know,

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Speaker 2: nobody realizing that there's a premeditated plan in place to

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Speaker 2: murder her.

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Speaker 3: Because slender Man.

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Speaker 2: This you know, facocta vision and you know their head,

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Speaker 2: by the way, a very scary one. If you haven't

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Speaker 2: seen an image of slender Man, it's pretty creepy. It's

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Speaker 2: this black and white image of this tall, skinny slender man,

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Speaker 2: kind of like.

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Speaker 3: The guy from Nightmare on Elm Street. It's night for Christmas.

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Speaker 2: Yes, Jack skeleton, right, like Jack.

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Speaker 6: Skellington, but like a scary version of it, Like, yeah,

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Speaker 6: the sweet Jack skeleton that we love.

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Speaker 7: But yeah, So the end result as of now is

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Speaker 7: again Morgan Geyser. She will remain in the mental health

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Speaker 7: facility that she had been required to stay in before

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Speaker 7: she was released and keep it here. We're going to

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Speaker 7: continue digging into the newly released Ebstein files and some

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Speaker 7: of the things that stand out are really deeply unsettling,

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Speaker 7: and we're going to be talking about a farming tycoon

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Speaker 7: who's done some stuff we need to investigate that more

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Speaker 7: True Crime Tonight.

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Speaker 2: Welcome back to True Crime Tonight on iHeartRadio. We're talking

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Speaker 2: true crime all the time. I'm Stephanie Leidecker here with

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Speaker 2: Courtney Armstrong and Body. Move in and listen. Later in

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Speaker 2: the show, we're also going to be discussing some just

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Speaker 2: some new information that's coming out in the Anna Kepner case.

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Speaker 2: You'll remember she's the young eighteen year old who lost

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Speaker 2: her life aboard a cruise ship. We've been covering that

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Speaker 2: very closely. Her stepbrother is suspect, not charged, So something

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Speaker 2: for us to unpack. And there and there's some you know,

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Speaker 2: new findings to to unpack. And also of course we'll

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Speaker 2: get to some more Epstein stuff. But we want you

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Speaker 2: to join the convo eight eight eight three one crime

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Speaker 2: if you want to talk to us live or of

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Speaker 2: course you can always leave us a talk back.

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Speaker 3: We love them.

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Speaker 2: In fact, let's go to one right now.

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Speaker 9: Okay, so right off the rip, Welcome back the longest

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Speaker 9: two weeks of my life.

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Speaker 3: Second steph Man.

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Speaker 9: When I see them files, I was like, oh shoot,

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Speaker 9: she's gonna be so angry. Third Crime and family Murders.

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Speaker 2: I'm gonna die on this sill. You gotta watch him

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Speaker 2: number four.

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Speaker 9: Go to Prime Video and check out The Thief Collector

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Speaker 9: if you want a little palate cleanser.

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Speaker 3: That's wild.

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Speaker 9: Also, I found this series called Murder in Mind. First

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Speaker 9: episode Brian Goe, crazy name whatever. Listen, it's Emily from

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Speaker 9: North of Boston.

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Speaker 3: I love.

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Speaker 6: Emily in every day I'm going to find you are

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Speaker 6: you are the energy we needed.

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Speaker 7: I was going to say we need a coffee anymore?

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Speaker 7: That talk bag every morning and just like you going

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Speaker 7: so I want to hear.

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Speaker 3: From her every day. That's the best talk back.

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Speaker 2: And we are going to take that advice and we

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Speaker 2: are going to watch those shows instantly and listen.

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Speaker 3: What is it about Boston? I just love it so much?

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Speaker 2: What is it now? I've never lived in Boston, I

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Speaker 2: feel like I would love living there and anytime I've been,

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Speaker 2: and man, it just gets energy hopped up.

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Speaker 7: Yes, it's just so contagious, Emily.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's folks like Emily, Emily, you got to call

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Speaker 2: us live. We want to hear from you live this week.

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Speaker 2: We're putting a deadline on you.

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Speaker 3: And you know what it is too, It's like there's

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Speaker 3: no like ds.

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Speaker 6: You know, you know, she's like a straight shooter, you

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Speaker 6: know exactly you could trust her and you know what else,

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Speaker 6: She's going to be loyal, She's never Emily is our girl.

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Speaker 2: Emily is the one you want to call when you

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Speaker 2: want to go like, hey, there's a.

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Speaker 3: New girlfriend in the mix.

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Speaker 8: Here.

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Speaker 2: We got to go see what's doing the car. We're

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Speaker 2: going to do a snake out. Yes, Emily, I'm good

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Speaker 2: in those situations too. All right, Emily, we got your

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Speaker 2: number and we are crazy for you.

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Speaker 7: Yes, and we're going to dig into Epstein. Thank you

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Speaker 7: for you know, teeing us up. So the Justice Department

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Speaker 7: has released an initial, though very heavily redacted dump of

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Speaker 7: these Jeffrey Epstein related records. In the meantime, they are

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Speaker 7: reviewing five point two million other documents thatcond prize the

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Speaker 7: entirety of the Epstein files. So, of course, Jeffrey Ebstein

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Speaker 7: was a convicted sex offender accused of trafficking miners with

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Speaker 7: the help of his longtime associate Gilaine Maxwell.

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Speaker 3: Now, back in.

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Speaker 7: November of last year, Congress passed the Epstein Files Transparency Act,

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Speaker 7: and that is what required the Justice Department to release

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Speaker 7: all of these unclassified records relating to Epstein.

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Speaker 3: A law.

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Speaker 2: They made a law.

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Speaker 7: They made a law, and the law, the letter of

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Speaker 7: the law, was that everything was to be released by

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Speaker 7: December nineteenth of twenty twenty five.

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Speaker 3: This deadline has come.

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Speaker 7: This deadline has gone, which again they say is due

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Speaker 7: to these extra five point two million documents lined around

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Speaker 7: that they need to go through. So one thing we

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Speaker 7: wanted to get into, because there is so much, we

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Speaker 7: wanted to put a little focus on something I think

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Speaker 7: to bring a human a human moment to it because

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Speaker 7: these are human beings that have been involved and sadly

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Speaker 7: are currently involved in sex trafficking rings. So as part

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Speaker 7: of this dump, the FBI did release a complaint from

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Speaker 7: back in nineteen ninety six. So what do we talk about.

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Speaker 7: That's literally thirty years, thirty years, thirty years. So this

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Speaker 7: was a complaint from a woman named Maria Farmer, and

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Speaker 7: it was an accusation, the first one against sexual abuser

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Speaker 7: Jeffrey Epstein on the record thirty years ago. So in

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Speaker 7: the complaint, Maria Farmer, she said that Jeffrey Epstein stole

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Speaker 7: nude photos of her twelve and sixteen year old sister

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Speaker 7: and then threaten Maria Farmer's life or excuse me, threatened

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Speaker 7: that he would burn her house down.

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Speaker 3: If she told anyone. So pretty big deal.

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Speaker 7: So at the time, Maria Farmers, she was just she

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Speaker 7: was in her mid twenties and was staying at Jeffrey

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Speaker 7: Epstein's Ohio property as part of an artist in residency.

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Speaker 7: She just graduated from the New York Academy of the Art.

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Speaker 7: And that's when she said, you know, both I have

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Speaker 7: been sexually assaulted by Jeffrey Epstein and Glene Maxwell, and

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Speaker 7: of course, the theft of the photos of her minor sisters.

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Speaker 7: This complaint was documented but not acted upon. I'm going

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Speaker 7: to pause for any rage.

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Speaker 2: Well, it wasn't that it was not acted upon. She

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Speaker 2: was straight up hung up on, like the phone call

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Speaker 2: was literally hung up on when she made the report.

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Speaker 2: And it's not even that she wasn't acted on. She

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Speaker 2: was called a liar and has been called a liar

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Speaker 2: for decades. So the whole thing about that particular story,

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Speaker 2: in hundreds more, is that these are young, young girls

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Speaker 2: that were put in compromised positions for promise of whatever

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Speaker 2: many things. Some of them got education, some of them

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Speaker 2: got two hundred bucks, some of them got nothing. Some

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Speaker 2: of them got the idea that they were going to

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Speaker 2: get a better job or access to more elite people.

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Speaker 2: The point being is they were literally not only ignored.

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Speaker 3: But told that they were straight lying.

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Speaker 2: So and this was recent, I mean I think recently

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Speaker 2: they were told they were lying. So here you are now,

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Speaker 2: thirty years later, you're an adult. You're looking back in

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Speaker 2: retrospect of like, wow, I lost years and years and

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Speaker 2: years of my life.

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Speaker 3: And you're not alone.

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Speaker 2: You find that there are hundreds of other victims who

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Speaker 2: are put in the exact same scenario or versions of

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Speaker 2: it equally as weird. And the question is why why

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Speaker 2: would somebody not act upon it? And then when it's

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Speaker 2: brought into the limelight as it has been for you know,

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Speaker 2: however long this has been, since, I mean since our

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Speaker 2: president even was talking about it to get elected, that

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Speaker 2: this was going to be the big release of these files.

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Speaker 2: Why now that we're getting kind of this hush hush, hush,

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Speaker 2: miss so slow drip. Yes, she has been vindicated. She's

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Speaker 2: been saying this and screaming it from a mountaintop for

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Speaker 2: years and years. Had that not been overlooked, many many

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Speaker 2: other girls would not have been trafficked since. And again

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Speaker 2: we're going back to the big picture item here. It's money.

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Speaker 2: It's money. It's money, it's money. So again, these are

438
00:22:44,960 --> 00:22:47,760
Speaker 2: not little one offs of one weird Jeffrey Epstein, who

439
00:22:47,840 --> 00:22:51,240
Speaker 2: has a weird proclivity for fifteen year olds. By the way,

440
00:22:51,400 --> 00:22:54,000
Speaker 2: why would an adult man, and this is just a

441
00:22:54,040 --> 00:22:57,200
Speaker 2: group question for anybody who has the answer, why would

442
00:22:57,200 --> 00:23:01,119
Speaker 2: an adult man who could have any body wants in

443
00:23:01,160 --> 00:23:04,399
Speaker 2: the real world, Why the fascination with being with a

444
00:23:04,440 --> 00:23:07,080
Speaker 2: fourteen year old girl or a fifteen year old girl.

445
00:23:07,480 --> 00:23:12,080
Speaker 2: Why and how is it possible that so many elite

446
00:23:12,680 --> 00:23:16,280
Speaker 2: important people have a proclivity for young girls? A. I

447
00:23:16,320 --> 00:23:19,560
Speaker 2: don't get that right. So that's number one. Number two,

448
00:23:19,720 --> 00:23:22,800
Speaker 2: How could that not be considered a crime? That's number two?

449
00:23:23,119 --> 00:23:26,560
Speaker 2: Number three? What is the money amounts that we're talking about?

450
00:23:26,600 --> 00:23:29,760
Speaker 2: The money's outstanding? Even we looked at JP Morgan and

451
00:23:29,840 --> 00:23:33,480
Speaker 2: Courtney in body. We've discussed this before. JP Morgan had

452
00:23:33,760 --> 00:23:37,960
Speaker 2: one billion dollars worth of transactions with Jeffrey Epstein, one

453
00:23:38,000 --> 00:23:41,840
Speaker 2: billion with a B. That's even after he was a

454
00:23:41,960 --> 00:23:45,240
Speaker 2: convicted sex offender by his own admission, even though we

455
00:23:45,280 --> 00:23:48,040
Speaker 2: got a weird sweetheart deal. Can you imagine one billion

456
00:23:48,119 --> 00:23:51,720
Speaker 2: dollars in the bank also handled transfers that were straight

457
00:23:51,800 --> 00:23:56,200
Speaker 2: up cash withdrawals, that were large cash withdrawals that were

458
00:23:56,640 --> 00:24:01,880
Speaker 2: regularly done. And also why are transfer some to Russia?

459
00:24:02,600 --> 00:24:05,080
Speaker 2: All of the things that they saw as patterns that

460
00:24:05,119 --> 00:24:08,560
Speaker 2: were the red flags that in fact were flagged within

461
00:24:08,680 --> 00:24:13,280
Speaker 2: this one particular bank. It sort of equal to money laundering.

462
00:24:13,600 --> 00:24:15,960
Speaker 2: Those are the things that people look out for, right, Oh,

463
00:24:16,000 --> 00:24:19,600
Speaker 2: what's with the offshore you know bank account that's happening

464
00:24:19,640 --> 00:24:22,600
Speaker 2: near this weird private island. Obviously you're in a weird

465
00:24:22,640 --> 00:24:25,520
Speaker 2: private island in the Caribbean. You have different tax laws,

466
00:24:25,800 --> 00:24:29,840
Speaker 2: different financial laws. There's money to be had there for laundering,

467
00:24:29,880 --> 00:24:33,399
Speaker 2: if that's the case. But they weren't only laundering money.

468
00:24:33,840 --> 00:24:39,119
Speaker 2: They're selling humans for money, allegedly, allegedly allegedly. So it's

469
00:24:39,160 --> 00:24:41,880
Speaker 2: again not just like one weird guy and his one

470
00:24:41,880 --> 00:24:46,399
Speaker 2: weirdo friend. Not that that's okay either, it's terrible, but

471
00:24:46,520 --> 00:24:49,800
Speaker 2: it really does paint a much larger picture. And I

472
00:24:49,840 --> 00:24:55,879
Speaker 2: think that larger picture is what we're being kept from.

473
00:24:54,160 --> 00:24:57,240
Speaker 7: Well absolutely with all of these reactions, and we touched

474
00:24:57,240 --> 00:25:00,000
Speaker 7: on this last night, you know, for we're not talking

475
00:25:00,000 --> 00:25:03,000
Speaker 7: talking about a word here or there, or what people

476
00:25:03,040 --> 00:25:05,399
Speaker 7: are saying, which is we need the reactions to protect

477
00:25:05,400 --> 00:25:09,800
Speaker 7: the victims. We're talking about sometimes one hundred pages at

478
00:25:09,800 --> 00:25:13,600
Speaker 7: a time. We're talking about the entirety of the grand

479
00:25:13,720 --> 00:25:17,160
Speaker 7: jury testimony which was supposed to be released.

480
00:25:17,240 --> 00:25:18,840
Speaker 2: And by the way, as we're talking about some of

481
00:25:18,880 --> 00:25:21,840
Speaker 2: the money, just to fact check myself, so JP Morgan

482
00:25:21,920 --> 00:25:25,480
Speaker 2: specifically PS twenty different banks have been indicted, so this

483
00:25:25,640 --> 00:25:29,400
Speaker 2: is just one glaring example. Twenty so that's Deutsche Bank.

484
00:25:29,480 --> 00:25:32,680
Speaker 2: All many thanks, right, so we're going to look at

485
00:25:32,840 --> 00:25:36,840
Speaker 2: JP Morgan Chase at the moment, they paid two hundred

486
00:25:36,960 --> 00:25:41,320
Speaker 2: and ninety million dollars in settlement fees to the victims

487
00:25:41,440 --> 00:25:45,360
Speaker 2: for allegedly turning a blind eye for what is considered

488
00:25:45,440 --> 00:25:48,240
Speaker 2: human trafficking. That's not me making an assertion right now,

489
00:25:48,280 --> 00:25:52,359
Speaker 2: that is a fact. Two hundred and ninety million dollars

490
00:25:52,400 --> 00:25:56,399
Speaker 2: in settlement fees to victims. Why would anybody pay that

491
00:25:56,520 --> 00:25:57,919
Speaker 2: if there was nothing to pay for?

492
00:25:58,720 --> 00:26:01,919
Speaker 6: Why if the fees or two hundred ninety million, what

493
00:26:01,960 --> 00:26:05,600
Speaker 6: were the transaction amounts for one million dollars and.

494
00:26:05,680 --> 00:26:09,320
Speaker 2: Dollars exactly, despite many of the red flags and internal

495
00:26:09,359 --> 00:26:12,840
Speaker 2: concerns about his status as a sex offender. So people

496
00:26:12,840 --> 00:26:15,120
Speaker 2: were flagging it. And you know, there was a great

497
00:26:15,160 --> 00:26:17,280
Speaker 2: New York Times article that came out over the break,

498
00:26:17,920 --> 00:26:19,280
Speaker 2: and if you haven't had a chance to read it,

499
00:26:19,320 --> 00:26:22,520
Speaker 2: please do. It's interesting too much to paraphrase, but in

500
00:26:22,560 --> 00:26:26,240
Speaker 2: broad strokes, it basically talks about how Jeffrey Epstein, this

501
00:26:26,359 --> 00:26:30,199
Speaker 2: guy that was a college dropout who has no financial

502
00:26:30,240 --> 00:26:34,479
Speaker 2: background whatsoever, how did he acquire all of this wealth,

503
00:26:35,040 --> 00:26:39,159
Speaker 2: enough wealth to protect himself from from any you know,

504
00:26:39,400 --> 00:26:43,760
Speaker 2: prosecution or any issues he had enough money to pay

505
00:26:43,800 --> 00:26:47,600
Speaker 2: everybody off. You will not convince me that he was

506
00:26:47,720 --> 00:26:53,520
Speaker 2: not honeypotting people and learning political figures or big thinkers

507
00:26:53,640 --> 00:26:57,879
Speaker 2: or scientists, world leaders to his said island. Maybe they

508
00:26:57,880 --> 00:27:01,640
Speaker 2: were being brought there under false preten and then suddenly

509
00:27:01,680 --> 00:27:04,439
Speaker 2: they get there and all of these underage girls or

510
00:27:04,480 --> 00:27:08,320
Speaker 2: overage just girls are there to be at their little

511
00:27:08,400 --> 00:27:13,560
Speaker 2: whim and there's cameras everywhere, and then those said men leave.

512
00:27:14,160 --> 00:27:17,639
Speaker 2: We know this to be maybe Prince Andrew or the

513
00:27:17,720 --> 00:27:22,520
Speaker 2: formerly known Prince Andrew. You know, these are the accusations allegedly, allegedly,

514
00:27:22,560 --> 00:27:25,120
Speaker 2: allegedly plus all of the other many names that we've

515
00:27:25,119 --> 00:27:28,800
Speaker 2: talked about before. You know, they suddenly they leave that island.

516
00:27:29,080 --> 00:27:33,200
Speaker 2: And when Epstein has a big idea, whether on behalf

517
00:27:33,280 --> 00:27:36,320
Speaker 2: of this country or on behalf of that country, he

518
00:27:36,400 --> 00:27:39,600
Speaker 2: now has the blackmail to make those wishes come true.

519
00:27:40,040 --> 00:27:40,399
Speaker 3: Period.

520
00:27:40,720 --> 00:27:43,040
Speaker 4: They must have done something to be blackmail, Like to

521
00:27:43,080 --> 00:27:46,119
Speaker 4: your earlier points, whire all these men with these fourteen

522
00:27:46,200 --> 00:27:49,280
Speaker 4: year olds. If I'm one of these wealthy powerful men there,

523
00:27:49,400 --> 00:27:52,879
Speaker 4: when you speak up and say something like if I

524
00:27:52,920 --> 00:27:55,280
Speaker 4: see that going on, I would say something, it makes you.

525
00:27:55,560 --> 00:27:58,760
Speaker 2: Want you wonder and what is this selective group that

526
00:27:58,800 --> 00:28:00,560
Speaker 2: you know, what are this? What is this this group

527
00:28:00,600 --> 00:28:02,359
Speaker 2: of big thinkers, and why are they all into some

528
00:28:02,440 --> 00:28:05,119
Speaker 2: young women? We talk about Alan Dershowitz, who was his

529
00:28:06,119 --> 00:28:09,760
Speaker 2: longtime attorney. Right, So, Alan Dershowitz presents so incredibly well.

530
00:28:09,800 --> 00:28:12,840
Speaker 2: I see him on projects and on the news real time,

531
00:28:12,920 --> 00:28:15,560
Speaker 2: as recently as a week ago, basically saying there's no files.

532
00:28:15,600 --> 00:28:17,400
Speaker 2: What are you guys talking about? There are no files?

533
00:28:17,680 --> 00:28:19,560
Speaker 2: And when I see him speak, I'm like, good point.

534
00:28:19,640 --> 00:28:22,359
Speaker 2: You know, maybe I'm maybe I'm like wrong, Maybe he's

535
00:28:22,480 --> 00:28:25,399
Speaker 2: right because he's been you know, cited in some of

536
00:28:25,440 --> 00:28:28,920
Speaker 2: these pieces of information. He's also the guy that was

537
00:28:29,000 --> 00:28:32,520
Speaker 2: the architect and helped give him that sweetheart deal meeting

538
00:28:32,560 --> 00:28:35,520
Speaker 2: Jeffrey Epstein back in two thousand and seven that he

539
00:28:35,640 --> 00:28:36,520
Speaker 2: put together.

540
00:28:36,280 --> 00:28:37,440
Speaker 3: That you know, non.

541
00:28:38,760 --> 00:28:42,120
Speaker 2: Non what is it called the non prosecution agreement that

542
00:28:42,200 --> 00:28:45,600
Speaker 2: was put together in West Palm Beach really unheard of

543
00:28:45,720 --> 00:28:49,120
Speaker 2: by the way, and was his longtime lawyer. Well, again

544
00:28:49,320 --> 00:28:51,959
Speaker 2: you do a deeper dive on Alan Dershowitz. This again

545
00:28:52,440 --> 00:28:57,240
Speaker 2: former law professor at Harvard, very renowned public speaker. He

546
00:28:57,280 --> 00:29:01,520
Speaker 2: has like an open letter about how statutory rape you

547
00:29:01,560 --> 00:29:04,120
Speaker 2: know should be re examined and that maybe the age

548
00:29:04,120 --> 00:29:07,880
Speaker 2: of consent is too high in certain places, and for example,

549
00:29:07,960 --> 00:29:12,280
Speaker 2: maybe fifteen years old is appropriate to you know, have

550
00:29:12,400 --> 00:29:17,840
Speaker 2: consenting relations with a young woman. What grown man needs

551
00:29:17,880 --> 00:29:20,800
Speaker 2: to be having sex? Or am I allowed to say sex?

552
00:29:20,880 --> 00:29:21,080
Speaker 4: Yes?

553
00:29:22,080 --> 00:29:24,960
Speaker 2: Is the sec listening well? Grown man needs to have

554
00:29:25,040 --> 00:29:26,440
Speaker 2: sex with a fifteen year old?

555
00:29:27,640 --> 00:29:28,960
Speaker 3: No? None? None?

556
00:29:29,040 --> 00:29:30,080
Speaker 4: Am I wrong about this?

557
00:29:30,200 --> 00:29:31,800
Speaker 3: Does that sound what you're reason? You're not wrong?

558
00:29:32,040 --> 00:29:34,760
Speaker 2: Does that like warrant an open essay to the world

559
00:29:34,920 --> 00:29:37,560
Speaker 2: Alan Dershowitz to sort of what is that? To cover

560
00:29:37,640 --> 00:29:40,560
Speaker 2: everyone's tracks? So we all get desensitized to the fact

561
00:29:40,600 --> 00:29:44,400
Speaker 2: that in some cultures fifteen is considered old. Okay, well,

562
00:29:44,760 --> 00:29:48,600
Speaker 2: in this country that would be considered statutory rape. And

563
00:29:48,640 --> 00:29:52,720
Speaker 2: that's discounting the idea of grooming, and you know, the

564
00:29:52,920 --> 00:29:58,160
Speaker 2: idea of elite, powerful people having he's he's young brains.

565
00:29:57,880 --> 00:29:59,520
Speaker 6: And this is like the hill he wants to die on,

566
00:29:59,640 --> 00:30:02,800
Speaker 6: right an advocating for it like ew and by the.

567
00:30:02,800 --> 00:30:04,920
Speaker 2: Way, convincing, I might add, So again, this is not

568
00:30:04,960 --> 00:30:06,960
Speaker 2: like an attack on Alan Dershowitz.

569
00:30:07,000 --> 00:30:09,680
Speaker 3: I just I found myself like I should be listening.

570
00:30:09,240 --> 00:30:11,320
Speaker 2: To him and being like, oh yeah, maybe I'm maybe

571
00:30:11,400 --> 00:30:13,400
Speaker 2: I'm overthinking this. No, and then I do a little

572
00:30:13,400 --> 00:30:16,440
Speaker 2: deep dive and I'm like, uh, come on now again.

573
00:30:16,520 --> 00:30:19,320
Speaker 2: He says that there has been no wrongdoings on his part,

574
00:30:19,800 --> 00:30:21,360
Speaker 2: and that, of course he's saying, that's.

575
00:30:21,200 --> 00:30:22,280
Speaker 3: A reassurhing to do with it.

576
00:30:22,360 --> 00:30:25,680
Speaker 2: He's also saying there are no files, and surprise, there

577
00:30:25,720 --> 00:30:27,840
Speaker 2: seemed to be five million files.

578
00:30:27,880 --> 00:30:29,959
Speaker 3: Right, and he's in a lot of them, right.

579
00:30:29,960 --> 00:30:31,200
Speaker 2: Potentially, I found this.

580
00:30:31,400 --> 00:30:33,959
Speaker 6: I found this thing that like counts how many times

581
00:30:34,000 --> 00:30:37,720
Speaker 6: people are named in the files, and it's staggering. I mean,

582
00:30:37,920 --> 00:30:40,640
Speaker 6: how many times these people are named. It doesn't necessarily

583
00:30:40,680 --> 00:30:43,000
Speaker 6: mean any wrongdoing, but it is interesting.

584
00:30:43,280 --> 00:30:43,880
Speaker 3: It is interesting.

585
00:30:43,920 --> 00:30:46,120
Speaker 2: By the way, Alan Dershowitz is one of the people

586
00:30:46,200 --> 00:30:49,840
Speaker 2: that Virginia Goofrey, the big Yeah the face of Face,

587
00:30:50,000 --> 00:30:52,560
Speaker 2: has you know, since taken her own life just back

588
00:30:52,600 --> 00:30:55,920
Speaker 2: in April of this year. She claimed, you know, of course,

589
00:30:55,960 --> 00:30:59,520
Speaker 2: Alan Dershowitz claims in a sense that she was trafficked

590
00:30:59,560 --> 00:31:01,520
Speaker 2: by staying to him.

591
00:31:01,680 --> 00:31:04,280
Speaker 3: So where is the truth in this? Where's the truth?

592
00:31:04,320 --> 00:31:05,760
Speaker 3: Well we are We're going to have to keep digging.

593
00:31:06,360 --> 00:31:09,560
Speaker 7: Listen, We're about to get into one of our favorite topics,

594
00:31:09,600 --> 00:31:12,480
Speaker 7: which is what you think should be brought to the table.

595
00:31:12,920 --> 00:31:15,080
Speaker 3: So let us go straight to a talk back.

596
00:31:15,800 --> 00:31:18,880
Speaker 10: Miss you and for gad, everyone had a good break,

597
00:31:19,000 --> 00:31:22,680
Speaker 10: So glad you're reck though, And I'm listening to Stephanie

598
00:31:23,080 --> 00:31:26,920
Speaker 10: and her passion about the f Stein files. And wouldn't

599
00:31:26,920 --> 00:31:29,720
Speaker 10: it be amazing if Ronan Pharaoh is that his name

600
00:31:29,880 --> 00:31:32,440
Speaker 10: went after this and started exposing people. I don't know,

601
00:31:32,440 --> 00:31:34,680
Speaker 10: I forgot the name right, But wouldn't it be great?

602
00:31:35,720 --> 00:31:39,880
Speaker 3: Yes? Well he did no like he did that in.

603
00:31:40,040 --> 00:31:43,640
Speaker 2: Father isn't like his like fucking creepy stepdad also forever

604
00:31:43,720 --> 00:31:44,360
Speaker 2: on that islands.

605
00:31:44,800 --> 00:31:48,320
Speaker 3: That's why he can't Yeah, oh really.

606
00:31:48,640 --> 00:31:49,479
Speaker 4: Oh that's wild.

607
00:31:49,600 --> 00:31:50,680
Speaker 3: Well I don't remember.

608
00:31:50,880 --> 00:31:53,920
Speaker 7: I don't remember hearing Woody Allen's name. I don't know,

609
00:31:54,760 --> 00:31:58,760
Speaker 7: but well, yes, allegedly, allegedly allegedly. Yeah, no, there's some

610
00:31:58,800 --> 00:32:01,360
Speaker 7: photographs that have been released with Jeffrey Epstein with Woody

611
00:32:01,400 --> 00:32:07,040
Speaker 7: Allen on unsurprising, unsurprising, obviously, it's also unsurprising that you

612
00:32:07,080 --> 00:32:11,960
Speaker 7: know sometimes you know, Woody Allen very controversially and very

613
00:32:12,000 --> 00:32:15,520
Speaker 7: famously married his right adopted daughter.

614
00:32:16,200 --> 00:32:17,560
Speaker 4: Yes she was really.

615
00:32:17,400 --> 00:32:19,480
Speaker 3: Younger than him.

616
00:32:19,880 --> 00:32:22,840
Speaker 2: Again, no accusations here, but there there have been some

617
00:32:22,880 --> 00:32:27,000
Speaker 2: suggestions that there was some at least no you know, connected.

618
00:32:26,560 --> 00:32:29,360
Speaker 4: Conness between the two. And there were photos with Woody

619
00:32:29,400 --> 00:32:32,640
Speaker 4: Allen involved in that right now, A ton okay, a ton.

620
00:32:32,480 --> 00:32:35,040
Speaker 6: Of photos, but into I just want to clear up

621
00:32:35,040 --> 00:32:38,720
Speaker 6: the Ronan Fero thing because because in twenty nineteen, long

622
00:32:38,760 --> 00:32:41,400
Speaker 6: after Jeffrey Epstein had been convicted in two thousand and eight,

623
00:32:41,760 --> 00:32:46,280
Speaker 6: right the first conviction, Ronan and Pharoh published this investigative

624
00:32:46,280 --> 00:32:49,080
Speaker 6: expose in the New York Times, Oh no, the New Yorker,

625
00:32:49,240 --> 00:32:53,720
Speaker 6: My bad. That was focused on Jeffrey Epstein's relationship with

626
00:32:53,760 --> 00:32:57,960
Speaker 6: the MIT Media Lab because like, Jeffrey Epstein was donating

627
00:32:58,000 --> 00:33:01,400
Speaker 6: and whatnot, even though he was disqualifed from donating because

628
00:33:01,400 --> 00:33:05,520
Speaker 6: of his sexual offender status, and you know, yeah, the

629
00:33:05,560 --> 00:33:08,760
Speaker 6: institution went to lengths to conceal his involvement, and he

630
00:33:08,840 --> 00:33:09,479
Speaker 6: uncovered it.

631
00:33:10,160 --> 00:33:13,320
Speaker 7: We should, actually, I think it's worth a deep dive

632
00:33:13,440 --> 00:33:15,640
Speaker 7: into some of this stuff that he found bought.

633
00:33:15,640 --> 00:33:18,040
Speaker 3: Oh sure, I think that would be for the record.

634
00:33:18,400 --> 00:33:19,760
Speaker 2: I love Ronan Pharaoh.

635
00:33:19,920 --> 00:33:21,080
Speaker 3: He uncovers all of it.

636
00:33:21,120 --> 00:33:22,920
Speaker 2: I mean, he was the one that did the dive

637
00:33:23,040 --> 00:33:26,360
Speaker 2: even into NBC in the you know, the infamous Matt.

638
00:33:26,240 --> 00:33:27,840
Speaker 3: Lower case at the time.

639
00:33:29,120 --> 00:33:33,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, he's a tremendous journalist in Harvey Weinstein.

640
00:33:34,560 --> 00:33:37,520
Speaker 6: It would be interesting to our talkbacks, you know, point,

641
00:33:37,640 --> 00:33:40,240
Speaker 6: it would be very interesting for him to get involved

642
00:33:40,280 --> 00:33:44,040
Speaker 6: in you know, this release, right, and and you hear

643
00:33:44,160 --> 00:33:47,160
Speaker 6: his thoughts on what you know, because he has some history, right,

644
00:33:47,200 --> 00:33:48,720
Speaker 6: he has some well, first of all, he has some

645
00:33:48,720 --> 00:33:53,720
Speaker 6: personal knowledge of you know, young victims, right, and you know,

646
00:33:53,800 --> 00:33:56,400
Speaker 6: with his he's a great journalist.

647
00:33:56,920 --> 00:33:59,400
Speaker 3: He could probably uncover a lot. So I think that's

648
00:33:59,440 --> 00:34:00,000
Speaker 3: a really good idea.

649
00:34:00,200 --> 00:34:04,320
Speaker 7: He's unbelievable. I think did he graduate college or at

650
00:34:04,440 --> 00:34:05,080
Speaker 7: like twelve?

651
00:34:05,840 --> 00:34:06,280
Speaker 3: I don't know.

652
00:34:06,720 --> 00:34:10,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, he says mea pharaoh's son too, for

653
00:34:10,600 --> 00:34:13,360
Speaker 2: anyone who doesn't know. And I believe his stepfather was

654
00:34:14,320 --> 00:34:18,800
Speaker 2: or is Woody Allen and uh, they were, he was

655
00:34:18,880 --> 00:34:22,040
Speaker 2: raised by them, and he is very close with his

656
00:34:22,080 --> 00:34:22,719
Speaker 2: beloved mother.

657
00:34:23,160 --> 00:34:23,319
Speaker 4: Right.

658
00:34:23,320 --> 00:34:26,240
Speaker 6: And he wont to pull enterprize for his work on Harvey,

659
00:34:26,400 --> 00:34:31,120
Speaker 6: the Harvey Weinstein expose basically, right, So he has a

660
00:34:31,160 --> 00:34:34,520
Speaker 6: you know, a really good footing in this kind of genre,

661
00:34:34,719 --> 00:34:39,760
Speaker 6: let's say, you know, exposing you know, sexual crimes.

662
00:34:39,960 --> 00:34:41,120
Speaker 3: Yeah, although to our.

663
00:34:41,000 --> 00:34:44,440
Speaker 2: Caller's point, he has been pretty quiet as that i've

664
00:34:44,480 --> 00:34:48,239
Speaker 2: seen seen in this past year, for example, since there's

665
00:34:48,280 --> 00:34:51,279
Speaker 2: been such a bubble up on all things Epstein, he

666
00:34:51,400 --> 00:34:55,759
Speaker 2: hasn't really been you know, loud, So yeah, i'd be

667
00:34:55,800 --> 00:34:56,440
Speaker 2: curious as well.

668
00:34:56,760 --> 00:34:58,000
Speaker 3: We can have him on the show.

669
00:34:58,400 --> 00:35:02,240
Speaker 4: I was talking about, because let's have him on here.

670
00:35:03,120 --> 00:35:04,840
Speaker 4: But yeah, I think to your own.

671
00:35:04,719 --> 00:35:05,160
Speaker 11: What he is?

672
00:35:05,200 --> 00:35:10,520
Speaker 7: His biological father, right, and the rumors, the pervasive rumors

673
00:35:10,680 --> 00:35:12,960
Speaker 7: are that his father is Frank Sinatra.

674
00:35:13,200 --> 00:35:16,360
Speaker 3: But yes, his biological father, is he.

675
00:35:17,080 --> 00:35:20,040
Speaker 2: Like Frank Sinatra. I already assumed that to be true,

676
00:35:20,239 --> 00:35:24,560
Speaker 2: and maybe his stepfather in my already, so I'm sorry

677
00:35:24,560 --> 00:35:27,399
Speaker 2: I already changed around their family tree just based on.

678
00:35:29,600 --> 00:35:31,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, we love him.

679
00:35:32,640 --> 00:35:35,600
Speaker 4: You guys mentioned we were talking about photos earlier, or

680
00:35:35,640 --> 00:35:38,200
Speaker 4: Woody Allen being in some of them. I think what

681
00:35:38,239 --> 00:35:40,719
Speaker 4: we should do is have something where we talk about

682
00:35:40,719 --> 00:35:43,719
Speaker 4: all the different photos that have come out with Yes, great,

683
00:35:43,920 --> 00:35:47,320
Speaker 4: because there are some that I haven't even seen until recently.

684
00:35:47,600 --> 00:35:50,920
Speaker 4: I purposely avoided some news, but I was dying to

685
00:35:51,040 --> 00:35:53,239
Speaker 4: hear your opinions on the ones that I did see.

686
00:35:53,320 --> 00:35:54,839
Speaker 4: So I can do that this week.

687
00:35:54,840 --> 00:35:56,960
Speaker 2: Maybe we can do that this week or even tomorrow.

688
00:35:58,080 --> 00:36:00,080
Speaker 7: I just want to tease one more thing because this

689
00:36:00,120 --> 00:36:04,680
Speaker 7: talkback made me jump into this the article, or at

690
00:36:04,760 --> 00:36:07,880
Speaker 7: least the very headline of what he wrote. And body

691
00:36:07,960 --> 00:36:12,080
Speaker 7: you mentioned that money was changing hands to Mi, I

692
00:36:12,160 --> 00:36:15,560
Speaker 7: T we're not talking about five and ten dollars. We're

693
00:36:15,560 --> 00:36:19,840
Speaker 7: talking about you know, up to seven point five million

694
00:36:20,560 --> 00:36:22,400
Speaker 7: and maybe another five point.

695
00:36:22,200 --> 00:36:23,879
Speaker 3: Five million, No big deal.

696
00:36:24,360 --> 00:36:26,640
Speaker 7: Yeah, So anyway, this is that was such a good

697
00:36:26,680 --> 00:36:29,239
Speaker 7: talkback because now I'm so excited and I really wish

698
00:36:29,400 --> 00:36:30,720
Speaker 7: Grown and Pharaoh was my boyfriend.

699
00:36:32,880 --> 00:36:35,640
Speaker 4: We're gonna have to fight over.

700
00:36:36,040 --> 00:36:40,759
Speaker 3: Line, right, you guys can have him.

701
00:36:40,960 --> 00:36:44,560
Speaker 4: How's that?

702
00:36:44,560 --> 00:36:47,000
Speaker 2: That's the last thing I need, is gay?

703
00:36:49,680 --> 00:36:52,680
Speaker 4: That's too funny, but we.

704
00:36:52,680 --> 00:36:53,799
Speaker 3: Love It's a great talk back.

705
00:36:53,880 --> 00:36:55,440
Speaker 2: Thank you for it, Yes, thank you.

706
00:36:55,480 --> 00:36:57,640
Speaker 4: Thanks to another one I missed the talkbacks.

707
00:36:57,719 --> 00:37:01,440
Speaker 12: I think that's Lady is Devin from Toronto.

708
00:37:01,480 --> 00:37:01,719
Speaker 3: Here.

709
00:37:01,840 --> 00:37:06,160
Speaker 12: I'm just laughing about Courtney's Paint by Numbers because in

710
00:37:06,200 --> 00:37:09,840
Speaker 12: the summertime I got super into diamond painting. I just

711
00:37:09,840 --> 00:37:13,360
Speaker 12: find it super meditative and relaxing. So all my friends

712
00:37:13,360 --> 00:37:17,120
Speaker 12: and family have been getting sets of diamond painted coasters

713
00:37:17,160 --> 00:37:18,200
Speaker 12: from you, whether.

714
00:37:17,960 --> 00:37:18,719
Speaker 4: They want them or not.

715
00:37:21,080 --> 00:37:25,680
Speaker 12: Finding new hobbies, take care, bye, Wait, what's diamond painting?

716
00:37:25,719 --> 00:37:26,680
Speaker 3: I don't know what that is.

717
00:37:26,920 --> 00:37:29,279
Speaker 4: I have to head around. That is it? Literally it's

718
00:37:29,280 --> 00:37:30,400
Speaker 4: like their little diamond.

719
00:37:30,440 --> 00:37:33,239
Speaker 6: Little rhinestones kind of like thing, and it's it's paint

720
00:37:33,239 --> 00:37:36,040
Speaker 6: by number, but you basically have this little tool. My

721
00:37:36,160 --> 00:37:38,759
Speaker 6: cousin Jill is obsessed with diamond painting some smilar and

722
00:37:40,000 --> 00:37:41,960
Speaker 6: there's this little tool. You pick up a gem, a

723
00:37:41,960 --> 00:37:45,880
Speaker 6: little tiny, tiny, tiny gem, and you basically stick it

724
00:37:46,200 --> 00:37:49,239
Speaker 6: on the painting and it's all it's all numbers. So

725
00:37:49,280 --> 00:37:52,240
Speaker 6: you get all these gems and there's trees and stickers.

726
00:37:52,600 --> 00:37:55,719
Speaker 3: It's a lot. That's a lot. It's a level of patients.

727
00:37:55,960 --> 00:37:56,359
Speaker 3: It does.

728
00:37:56,400 --> 00:38:01,520
Speaker 6: But but like Courtney says, it's very you know, very meditative, right.

729
00:38:02,560 --> 00:38:03,480
Speaker 3: I love that idea.

730
00:38:03,520 --> 00:38:06,360
Speaker 6: It's almost like be dazzling, but it's kind of be

731
00:38:06,480 --> 00:38:08,840
Speaker 6: dazzling a painting like love Courtney.

732
00:38:08,960 --> 00:38:12,920
Speaker 3: Did you see this with this painting that Courtney did? Taha, No,

733
00:38:13,200 --> 00:38:15,200
Speaker 3: my god, it's so silly.

734
00:38:15,360 --> 00:38:18,879
Speaker 7: It is paint by number, but it's like you can

735
00:38:19,239 --> 00:38:23,600
Speaker 7: do exquisite things and you just follow along and it's incredible.

736
00:38:23,880 --> 00:38:24,560
Speaker 3: It's incredible.

737
00:38:24,600 --> 00:38:26,640
Speaker 2: And then she tosses them, she like literally puts them

738
00:38:26,640 --> 00:38:28,160
Speaker 2: in the garbage because she doesn't want to put them

739
00:38:28,239 --> 00:38:32,160
Speaker 2: up at her house this bible. I'm like, why are

740
00:38:32,200 --> 00:38:35,200
Speaker 2: you tossing them our way instead? So we can frame

741
00:38:35,280 --> 00:38:38,799
Speaker 2: them and hold them in the highest regard in our home,

742
00:38:39,239 --> 00:38:41,000
Speaker 2: like if.

743
00:38:40,880 --> 00:38:44,240
Speaker 7: You want them or not, I'll be sending you paintings now, Yes.

744
00:38:44,320 --> 00:38:48,640
Speaker 4: Exactly to some of the listeners, like anybody that sends

745
00:38:48,640 --> 00:38:51,120
Speaker 4: a good time, my goodness, they get a personal piece

746
00:38:51,160 --> 00:38:52,400
Speaker 4: of artwork from Courtney.

747
00:38:52,520 --> 00:38:57,479
Speaker 3: There you go. Maybe you can make our little logo. Yes,

748
00:38:58,600 --> 00:38:59,759
Speaker 3: where are the sweatshirts?

749
00:39:00,040 --> 00:39:02,520
Speaker 2: I heard what they promised to the sweatshirts. They're coming.

750
00:39:02,560 --> 00:39:06,120
Speaker 2: I promise you. I'm going to follow up on that tomorrow.

751
00:39:05,920 --> 00:39:08,560
Speaker 4: And it's going to be hot before we I need

752
00:39:08,600 --> 00:39:12,960
Speaker 4: it now here worth the way. That's true. That's true.

753
00:39:13,000 --> 00:39:15,759
Speaker 7: Well, the diamond painting, we'll see if I get if

754
00:39:15,800 --> 00:39:19,400
Speaker 7: I get over my paint by numbers. Now that I

755
00:39:19,440 --> 00:39:20,640
Speaker 7: have another thing to look into.

756
00:39:20,760 --> 00:39:21,560
Speaker 3: So thank you for that.

757
00:39:22,200 --> 00:39:24,920
Speaker 4: Amazing a fun one.

758
00:39:23,719 --> 00:39:28,040
Speaker 3: So we are true crime tonight.

759
00:39:28,080 --> 00:39:33,040
Speaker 7: I'm Courtney Armstrong here so luckily with Stephanie Leideker, body

760
00:39:33,080 --> 00:39:35,960
Speaker 7: move in, producer Daha, Sam and Adam in the control

761
00:39:36,120 --> 00:39:41,439
Speaker 7: room and we are talking about whatever you guys want

762
00:39:41,480 --> 00:39:42,960
Speaker 7: to So let's go to another talk.

763
00:39:42,880 --> 00:39:46,480
Speaker 13: Back, Hi, ladies. Just on the Paint by Numbers. I

764
00:39:46,520 --> 00:39:49,920
Speaker 13: absolutely swear by it. As someone who has ADHD, I

765
00:39:50,000 --> 00:39:52,799
Speaker 13: find it to be a really really good task that

766
00:39:52,920 --> 00:39:56,239
Speaker 13: kind of brings me down when I'm overstimulated. So ten

767
00:39:56,320 --> 00:39:58,439
Speaker 13: out of ten can recommend. And there are some really

768
00:39:58,520 --> 00:40:03,360
Speaker 13: nice ones that you can buy now, Happy Armstrong.

769
00:40:03,360 --> 00:40:05,719
Speaker 2: Are you paint by numbers as well?

770
00:40:05,960 --> 00:40:06,359
Speaker 10: She is?

771
00:40:06,840 --> 00:40:11,480
Speaker 6: It's a movement and a movement no now, I really like.

772
00:40:11,760 --> 00:40:14,560
Speaker 6: So I asked you yesterday do you have markers? Because

773
00:40:14,560 --> 00:40:16,280
Speaker 6: I you know, and you were like, no, it's paint.

774
00:40:16,760 --> 00:40:19,080
Speaker 6: Have you seen the coloring books with the markers, like

775
00:40:19,120 --> 00:40:20,920
Speaker 6: the adult coloring books?

776
00:40:20,360 --> 00:40:25,840
Speaker 3: I have them. Have you tried? I have? And it

777
00:40:25,920 --> 00:40:27,000
Speaker 3: was not as good.

778
00:40:27,400 --> 00:40:30,839
Speaker 7: It just didn't And ps I came upon this as

779
00:40:30,880 --> 00:40:34,960
Speaker 7: such a lark. My husband had gotten me probably two

780
00:40:35,000 --> 00:40:37,040
Speaker 7: and a half years ago for Christmas. He's like, here's

781
00:40:37,040 --> 00:40:39,560
Speaker 7: this paint by Numbers thing. I'm like, how great. I

782
00:40:39,560 --> 00:40:41,680
Speaker 7: didn't touch it for more than a year for whatever

783
00:40:41,719 --> 00:40:45,600
Speaker 7: the reason. And I don't know, it's just a timing thing.

784
00:40:45,640 --> 00:40:48,239
Speaker 7: But the markers I used to have, the adult ones

785
00:40:48,280 --> 00:40:51,000
Speaker 7: some of them have they'll have like a curse word.

786
00:40:51,040 --> 00:40:54,280
Speaker 7: But it looks very beautiful and actually this was funny.

787
00:40:54,520 --> 00:40:58,480
Speaker 7: My kid when he before he could read, found it

788
00:40:58,520 --> 00:41:01,400
Speaker 7: and was coloring it, and it is on our dining

789
00:41:01,480 --> 00:41:09,799
Speaker 7: room table when my in laws came over. Yeah, the

790
00:41:09,840 --> 00:41:17,399
Speaker 7: words were not quit things we can't say. We can't

791
00:41:17,400 --> 00:41:21,239
Speaker 7: say them words. But that is yeah, that is so.

792
00:41:21,400 --> 00:41:24,239
Speaker 14: It's so not you too, like you were so like

793
00:41:24,320 --> 00:41:27,920
Speaker 14: buttoned up. It's hilarious that it's all the perfect person

794
00:41:27,960 --> 00:41:30,799
Speaker 14: for that to happen to would be you, because it's

795
00:41:30,840 --> 00:41:32,880
Speaker 14: so you know, anti Courtney.

796
00:41:33,000 --> 00:41:33,719
Speaker 3: That's funny.

797
00:41:33,960 --> 00:41:34,920
Speaker 4: Oh, that's funny.

798
00:41:35,080 --> 00:41:37,279
Speaker 2: All right, we'll paint by numbers. It's a swell. Let's

799
00:41:37,280 --> 00:41:39,920
Speaker 2: go bring them on. Let's all put on our weighted

800
00:41:40,000 --> 00:41:40,680
Speaker 2: vests too.

801
00:41:40,719 --> 00:41:42,560
Speaker 4: I'm I knew I was going to say the weight

802
00:41:43,960 --> 00:41:44,719
Speaker 4: I'm putting.

803
00:41:44,440 --> 00:41:46,400
Speaker 3: It on right now. You could you could hear the

804
00:41:46,440 --> 00:41:51,839
Speaker 3: sand in my back setting. Do we have any other talkbacks?

805
00:41:51,920 --> 00:41:53,160
Speaker 4: I think we got another one here.

806
00:41:54,080 --> 00:41:56,799
Speaker 5: Hey, y'all, I wanted to call in and let y'all

807
00:41:56,880 --> 00:41:59,520
Speaker 5: know that, although I'm super glad that y'all had a

808
00:41:59,600 --> 00:42:05,520
Speaker 5: mention relaxing holiday break, your girl missed, y'all has been

809
00:42:06,160 --> 00:42:08,919
Speaker 5: so roasy for me to not be able to get

810
00:42:09,320 --> 00:42:13,920
Speaker 5: updates and laugh with y'all like I'm there, it's been anyways.

811
00:42:14,040 --> 00:42:16,800
Speaker 5: I don't have any questions or anything. I just wanted

812
00:42:16,840 --> 00:42:20,000
Speaker 5: to say, let's not do for a really long time.

813
00:42:23,360 --> 00:42:25,799
Speaker 6: I'm sorry that you're having a hard time, but you know,

814
00:42:25,880 --> 00:42:28,279
Speaker 6: I'm so glad that you're able to join us, you know,

815
00:42:28,440 --> 00:42:31,520
Speaker 6: in in processing all this stuff, because it does take

816
00:42:31,520 --> 00:42:34,760
Speaker 6: a village sometimes and I think talking about this hard

817
00:42:34,800 --> 00:42:37,920
Speaker 6: stuff together is helpful for a lot of people. And

818
00:42:38,000 --> 00:42:40,319
Speaker 6: so again, I'm sad that you're having a hard time,

819
00:42:40,360 --> 00:42:42,120
Speaker 6: but I'm so glad that you're with us and our.

820
00:42:42,000 --> 00:42:45,520
Speaker 2: Family and we love you obviously too. And by the way,

821
00:42:45,600 --> 00:42:48,640
Speaker 2: some of this crime stuff, you know, air quotes, you know,

822
00:42:48,760 --> 00:42:52,359
Speaker 2: it dips into other categories, right, it's about relationships and

823
00:42:52,480 --> 00:42:55,440
Speaker 2: sort of drama, you know, drama in our own lives

824
00:42:55,480 --> 00:42:58,120
Speaker 2: that we can relate maybe on a smaller level. Of

825
00:42:58,160 --> 00:43:01,640
Speaker 2: courses are very extreme cases is but I think here

826
00:43:01,800 --> 00:43:03,600
Speaker 2: we get to chew on it a little bit and

827
00:43:04,000 --> 00:43:06,440
Speaker 2: get a little bit and think about it from a

828
00:43:06,440 --> 00:43:10,440
Speaker 2: different perspective. And we're so grateful that you listen, and

829
00:43:10,480 --> 00:43:11,160
Speaker 2: we missed you.

830
00:43:11,120 --> 00:43:13,800
Speaker 4: Too, absolutely.

831
00:43:14,000 --> 00:43:15,880
Speaker 3: Although it was really nice having the nights off, I'm

832
00:43:15,880 --> 00:43:16,760
Speaker 3: not gonna yeah, you're.

833
00:43:16,600 --> 00:43:20,440
Speaker 2: Never getting that long off again though, so we're buckling.

834
00:43:20,040 --> 00:43:21,440
Speaker 4: Up and for a while.

835
00:43:21,600 --> 00:43:23,920
Speaker 2: We're back for a while, so don't you worry.

836
00:43:24,080 --> 00:43:26,520
Speaker 3: But it was nice, like watching TV. I was like, oh,

837
00:43:26,680 --> 00:43:27,360
Speaker 3: what is this.

838
00:43:29,480 --> 00:43:32,520
Speaker 4: I saw Strangers we talked about. Oh, I heard you

839
00:43:32,560 --> 00:43:33,560
Speaker 4: mentioned Stranger Things.

840
00:43:34,320 --> 00:43:37,040
Speaker 3: I love that show, man, I love that show. It

841
00:43:37,120 --> 00:43:41,200
Speaker 3: is so good. It meet you there, and I haven't

842
00:43:41,280 --> 00:43:41,959
Speaker 3: watched it yet.

843
00:43:42,080 --> 00:43:45,640
Speaker 6: I'm saving watch it. I'm going to, but I'm saving it.

844
00:43:46,040 --> 00:43:48,239
Speaker 6: And Vegas had this big thing with you know, I

845
00:43:48,280 --> 00:43:50,919
Speaker 6: live in Las Vegas and I was in Oakland though

846
00:43:51,000 --> 00:43:54,279
Speaker 6: when this Stranger Things event happened. They had this big

847
00:43:54,360 --> 00:43:56,400
Speaker 6: drone show. I don't know if you guys saw, but

848
00:43:56,440 --> 00:44:00,560
Speaker 6: it was so crazy. It was so like, these drones

849
00:44:00,719 --> 00:44:03,680
Speaker 6: are incredible. It's very hard for me to picture. Are

850
00:44:03,680 --> 00:44:07,640
Speaker 6: the drones projecting something somewhere? No, they they basically the

851
00:44:07,719 --> 00:44:10,600
Speaker 6: drones are lit up. Each drone is a different color light,

852
00:44:10,800 --> 00:44:14,480
Speaker 6: let's say. And they make like a demagorgan from Stranger Things,

853
00:44:14,480 --> 00:44:17,279
Speaker 6: and it moved. It basically walked down the strip in

854
00:44:17,320 --> 00:44:17,879
Speaker 6: the air house.

855
00:44:18,160 --> 00:44:19,480
Speaker 3: So the kids.

856
00:44:19,520 --> 00:44:22,920
Speaker 2: Though, again I'm outsider looking in and I will watch

857
00:44:22,960 --> 00:44:25,359
Speaker 2: it because I know it's brilliant, but just as an

858
00:44:25,360 --> 00:44:26,239
Speaker 2: outsider looking in.

859
00:44:26,719 --> 00:44:29,120
Speaker 3: They seem like they're real adults at this point.

860
00:44:29,200 --> 00:44:34,600
Speaker 6: Well they are now thirty five years old, but they

861
00:44:34,600 --> 00:44:35,880
Speaker 6: were little when it started.

862
00:44:37,280 --> 00:44:41,680
Speaker 3: When they were they were like eleven married in the.

863
00:44:41,680 --> 00:44:44,640
Speaker 7: Last two see, like even last season, they look so

864
00:44:44,719 --> 00:44:47,480
Speaker 7: much younger when I see clips and I guess three

865
00:44:47,560 --> 00:44:48,120
Speaker 7: years past.

866
00:44:48,239 --> 00:44:50,839
Speaker 3: So but yeah, they all look they all look there's

867
00:44:51,040 --> 00:44:53,200
Speaker 3: years between seasons, so I see.

868
00:44:53,239 --> 00:44:54,640
Speaker 2: I was like, God, they've been in high school for

869
00:44:54,640 --> 00:44:57,719
Speaker 2: a really long time, right, it seems like ages. But

870
00:44:57,719 --> 00:44:59,520
Speaker 2: that was like nine two went o, remember when we

871
00:45:00,080 --> 00:45:03,600
Speaker 2: like that?

872
00:45:01,080 --> 00:45:05,560
Speaker 3: And Andrea was ridiculous.

873
00:45:05,800 --> 00:45:09,839
Speaker 7: Andrea is ridiculous from jump it was so that was

874
00:45:09,880 --> 00:45:12,200
Speaker 7: so bad, dude, that was so bad.

875
00:45:12,840 --> 00:45:15,759
Speaker 3: No, no, I love it.

876
00:45:15,880 --> 00:45:17,280
Speaker 2: Don't get don't get me started.

877
00:45:17,760 --> 00:45:19,920
Speaker 3: I had the Brenda you know, the bangs with the

878
00:45:19,960 --> 00:45:21,359
Speaker 3: straight dark hair.

879
00:45:21,520 --> 00:45:22,160
Speaker 14: You know you?

880
00:45:23,120 --> 00:45:27,880
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, I saw I. I right. He used to

881
00:45:27,920 --> 00:45:29,640
Speaker 4: work out my gym and I would always stare over

882
00:45:29,680 --> 00:45:31,120
Speaker 4: and I'm like, I feel like a loser.

883
00:45:31,200 --> 00:45:35,360
Speaker 6: Steve he was another one that was really old for

884
00:45:35,440 --> 00:45:38,719
Speaker 6: the show, Like and Andrea.

885
00:45:38,080 --> 00:45:43,320
Speaker 7: I feel like iron against me? Did he do a

886
00:45:43,719 --> 00:45:45,680
Speaker 7: mail stret tease? Am I making that up?

887
00:45:45,800 --> 00:45:46,240
Speaker 3: Entirely.

888
00:45:46,680 --> 00:45:49,719
Speaker 2: No, he'd be like at shipping Dale's. I think like

889
00:45:49,840 --> 00:45:53,960
Speaker 2: adjacent thing at some point, and I think you're right.

890
00:45:54,040 --> 00:45:55,279
Speaker 3: I don't want to see that. And I love that.

891
00:45:56,480 --> 00:45:58,960
Speaker 2: Yes, I loved it. I loved all of them. It

892
00:45:59,080 --> 00:46:00,560
Speaker 2: got me through school.

893
00:46:00,640 --> 00:46:02,960
Speaker 3: I love them all some point, Yeah, I'm.

894
00:46:02,800 --> 00:46:05,480
Speaker 2: And Andrea even though she was thirty five playing a

895
00:46:05,600 --> 00:46:06,439
Speaker 2: fifteen year old.

896
00:46:06,560 --> 00:46:09,959
Speaker 6: You know that, I was like into it. Oh yeah, Dad,

897
00:46:10,320 --> 00:46:11,440
Speaker 6: remember Milrose Place.

898
00:46:16,160 --> 00:46:17,640
Speaker 4: I think we all watched the same one.

899
00:46:18,320 --> 00:46:21,280
Speaker 6: Yes, that was a Remember at the end of the hotel,

900
00:46:21,520 --> 00:46:23,600
Speaker 6: like the apartment building like blew.

901
00:46:23,400 --> 00:46:23,759
Speaker 3: Up and.

902
00:46:25,800 --> 00:46:27,719
Speaker 7: Well, listen, we're not going to be able to top

903
00:46:28,040 --> 00:46:31,000
Speaker 7: that right this moment. But coming up at the top

904
00:46:31,040 --> 00:46:33,560
Speaker 7: of the hour, we're going to get into that wealthy

905
00:46:33,680 --> 00:46:37,560
Speaker 7: farming tycoons story and there's a bunch of details that

906
00:46:37,640 --> 00:46:39,879
Speaker 7: do not add up. We've got that. We've got more

907
00:46:40,040 --> 00:46:42,680
Speaker 7: true crime tonight. We're talking true crime all the time.

908
00:46:54,840 --> 00:46:57,960
Speaker 2: Welcome back to True crime tonight on iHeartRadio. We're talking

909
00:46:57,960 --> 00:47:01,040
Speaker 2: true crime all the time. Staff here with Courtney and

910
00:47:01,160 --> 00:47:03,239
Speaker 2: Body of course, we have Sam and Adam in the

911
00:47:03,239 --> 00:47:07,360
Speaker 2: control room and Taha Howse, our producer is back in

912
00:47:07,440 --> 00:47:10,520
Speaker 2: the saddle from his vacation band is back together.

913
00:47:10,920 --> 00:47:11,160
Speaker 3: Listen.

914
00:47:11,200 --> 00:47:13,880
Speaker 2: If you've missed any of the first hour, it's okay

915
00:47:14,120 --> 00:47:16,680
Speaker 2: because you can always catch us as a podcast right after.

916
00:47:17,120 --> 00:47:19,080
Speaker 2: And as always, if you want to join us live

917
00:47:19,239 --> 00:47:22,640
Speaker 2: eight eight eight three one crime or please leave us

918
00:47:22,640 --> 00:47:24,719
Speaker 2: a talk back, or you can always hit us up

919
00:47:24,719 --> 00:47:28,520
Speaker 2: on our socials at True Crime Tonight show on Instagram

920
00:47:28,560 --> 00:47:34,320
Speaker 2: and TikTok or at True Crime Tonight on Facebook. And yes,

921
00:47:34,600 --> 00:47:37,160
Speaker 2: I mean honestly they Oh, we have a talkback right now.

922
00:47:37,960 --> 00:47:40,040
Speaker 3: Hi, this is Matt from Noel Lance. Did you see

923
00:47:40,080 --> 00:47:43,160
Speaker 3: that Brian Coburger's sister booker silence on the murders? What

924
00:47:43,200 --> 00:47:44,319
Speaker 3: do you guys think about that?

925
00:47:47,000 --> 00:47:49,960
Speaker 6: Yeah, you know, we haven't heard from anybody in the

926
00:47:49,960 --> 00:47:53,279
Speaker 6: Coburger family, you know, since this happened, and you know,

927
00:47:53,840 --> 00:47:56,319
Speaker 6: we finally did you know, it's been it's been a

928
00:47:56,360 --> 00:47:59,600
Speaker 6: long time. The sister of the Idaho student killer, Brian

929
00:47:59,680 --> 00:48:03,160
Speaker 6: koberg Or, her name is mel Cooburger. She's broken our

930
00:48:03,160 --> 00:48:05,799
Speaker 6: silence for the first time since the murders. And you know,

931
00:48:06,000 --> 00:48:08,680
Speaker 6: if you're not familiar. In the fall of twenty twenty two,

932
00:48:08,880 --> 00:48:12,600
Speaker 6: there were four college students from the University of Idaho

933
00:48:12,640 --> 00:48:16,840
Speaker 6: they were found stabbed to death near campus in Moscow, Idaho.

934
00:48:17,400 --> 00:48:19,680
Speaker 6: You know, it was a crime that shocked everyone, the

935
00:48:19,719 --> 00:48:23,880
Speaker 6: local community and national. It drew a lot of worldwide attention,

936
00:48:24,400 --> 00:48:28,720
Speaker 6: not just national, I mean this was worldwide. Brian Coberger,

937
00:48:28,760 --> 00:48:32,440
Speaker 6: he was a He was a criminology PhD student at

938
00:48:32,960 --> 00:48:34,240
Speaker 6: wait did I say dudent?

939
00:48:35,200 --> 00:48:36,120
Speaker 3: He was a criminal.

940
00:48:37,040 --> 00:48:45,480
Speaker 6: It was a criminal PhD criminalogy, criminologyology phdan stroke.

941
00:48:48,080 --> 00:48:48,279
Speaker 9: Yeah.

942
00:48:48,280 --> 00:48:50,960
Speaker 6: And he was studying at a nearby university, at Washington

943
00:48:50,960 --> 00:48:54,399
Speaker 6: State University. And he has pled guilty to all four

944
00:48:54,480 --> 00:48:59,799
Speaker 6: murders and is serving multiple life sentence in Idaho. And

945
00:49:00,040 --> 00:49:02,680
Speaker 6: you know, we haven't heard anything from any of the family,

946
00:49:02,760 --> 00:49:03,680
Speaker 6: the mom, the dad.

947
00:49:03,719 --> 00:49:07,600
Speaker 3: He has also two sisters, and Mel.

948
00:49:08,239 --> 00:49:10,799
Speaker 6: We finally heard from her and she spoke with the

949
00:49:10,840 --> 00:49:15,719
Speaker 6: New York Times. She said, it's confusing, it's painful. It's

950
00:49:15,800 --> 00:49:20,040
Speaker 6: like being victimized but not really being a victim. And

951
00:49:20,239 --> 00:49:22,919
Speaker 6: you know, and I can, you know, I can see

952
00:49:23,160 --> 00:49:26,480
Speaker 6: where she's coming from because her family has been under

953
00:49:26,640 --> 00:49:29,880
Speaker 6: a microscope. They've been you know, she lost not just

954
00:49:29,920 --> 00:49:33,040
Speaker 6: her but her sister also lost her job. They've lost

955
00:49:33,200 --> 00:49:37,520
Speaker 6: jobs because people are calling and harassing them and whatnot. So,

956
00:49:37,680 --> 00:49:40,480
Speaker 6: I mean, I definitely think there are secondary victims in this,

957
00:49:40,719 --> 00:49:40,920
Speaker 6: you know.

958
00:49:41,160 --> 00:49:44,239
Speaker 7: Yeah, they're lives, you know, and people may think and

959
00:49:44,800 --> 00:49:50,000
Speaker 7: do think many different things. But sure, Ryan Coberger's family's lives,

960
00:49:50,160 --> 00:49:56,719
Speaker 7: they've been decimated. They are changed forever, right, Their offspring

961
00:49:56,760 --> 00:49:58,920
Speaker 7: should there be offspring, has changed forever.

962
00:49:59,080 --> 00:50:01,600
Speaker 3: I mean, yeah, this is not a small thing. That

963
00:50:02,080 --> 00:50:04,279
Speaker 3: small thing to them, for.

964
00:50:04,239 --> 00:50:06,600
Speaker 4: The rest of their lives will always be associated with

965
00:50:06,640 --> 00:50:07,680
Speaker 4: that one.

966
00:50:07,360 --> 00:50:11,319
Speaker 6: Right, anybody with the Coburger name even, I mean, we

967
00:50:11,360 --> 00:50:13,600
Speaker 6: can go as far as to say that, you know,

968
00:50:13,640 --> 00:50:15,560
Speaker 6: she said some interesting things, she said. You know, I'm

969
00:50:15,600 --> 00:50:19,759
Speaker 6: keeping contact with Brian, She said, since his arrest, We've

970
00:50:19,760 --> 00:50:23,560
Speaker 6: held regular calls with him, avoiding discussions about the details

971
00:50:23,560 --> 00:50:26,520
Speaker 6: of the case. I have kept him posted about life

972
00:50:26,560 --> 00:50:31,719
Speaker 6: at home on her brother. The upbringing of Brian Coberger,

973
00:50:32,640 --> 00:50:34,960
Speaker 6: mel Coburger said, you know, we were all so proud

974
00:50:34,960 --> 00:50:37,960
Speaker 6: of him because he had overcome so much. She said,

975
00:50:38,000 --> 00:50:41,440
Speaker 6: he struggled as a teen. He wrote online about having

976
00:50:41,480 --> 00:50:45,239
Speaker 6: no emotion, little remorse, and feeling as if he was

977
00:50:45,400 --> 00:50:49,200
Speaker 6: an organic sack of meat with no self worth. She said,

978
00:50:49,280 --> 00:50:53,440
Speaker 6: you know, he was bullied. He he was overweight, and

979
00:50:53,520 --> 00:50:57,040
Speaker 6: he was bullied and then he basically got addicted to heroin,

980
00:50:57,920 --> 00:51:00,799
Speaker 6: and they were really proud of him for going to

981
00:51:00,880 --> 00:51:05,680
Speaker 6: college and overcoming that, only to you know, have him

982
00:51:05,719 --> 00:51:06,480
Speaker 6: do this, right.

983
00:51:06,600 --> 00:51:10,000
Speaker 3: I mean, it's just it. It was shocking, she said.

984
00:51:10,600 --> 00:51:13,520
Speaker 6: On the difficulty of public scrutiny, she said, it's human

985
00:51:13,600 --> 00:51:15,720
Speaker 6: nature to be curious about darker things.

986
00:51:16,320 --> 00:51:17,920
Speaker 3: That's how we keep ourselves safe.

987
00:51:18,440 --> 00:51:20,239
Speaker 6: But I think we should try to come together for

988
00:51:20,320 --> 00:51:23,759
Speaker 6: a true crime culture that is way more protective and

989
00:51:23,840 --> 00:51:28,160
Speaker 6: empathetic to the families of the victims. And you know,

990
00:51:28,280 --> 00:51:33,279
Speaker 6: I really think that mel I really felt she was

991
00:51:33,320 --> 00:51:36,000
Speaker 6: sincere in this. I really felt she had a lot

992
00:51:36,000 --> 00:51:41,200
Speaker 6: of empathy for the victims and their families. I didn't

993
00:51:41,480 --> 00:51:43,479
Speaker 6: sense and you know, I'm not, you know, a mind

994
00:51:43,520 --> 00:51:45,320
Speaker 6: reader or anything like that, or I'm not like super

995
00:51:45,360 --> 00:51:47,719
Speaker 6: in tune to people's emotions or whatnot.

996
00:51:47,719 --> 00:51:49,479
Speaker 3: But I really didn't get the sense that.

997
00:51:51,840 --> 00:51:53,799
Speaker 6: I did get the sense that, you know, they're very

998
00:51:53,840 --> 00:51:58,000
Speaker 6: empathetic to the victims and very sorry for what happened.

999
00:51:59,280 --> 00:52:01,319
Speaker 6: You know, that's just the feeling I thought from it,

1000
00:52:01,520 --> 00:52:05,000
Speaker 6: that you know, they wish that had never happened, obviously,

1001
00:52:05,040 --> 00:52:07,880
Speaker 6: and they're very sad for the victims. And I think

1002
00:52:08,040 --> 00:52:09,799
Speaker 6: it came across in the article. I thought it was

1003
00:52:09,800 --> 00:52:10,600
Speaker 6: a really good article.

1004
00:52:11,760 --> 00:52:15,759
Speaker 2: Yeah, I agree. Yeah, it's a tough one for me.

1005
00:52:15,840 --> 00:52:18,960
Speaker 2: This is such a tough topic for me because the

1006
00:52:19,000 --> 00:52:24,480
Speaker 2: Brian Coburger case and the loss of Madison Mogan and

1007
00:52:24,920 --> 00:52:30,640
Speaker 2: you know, Kaylee Gonzalvez and Xannerkernodle and Ethan Chapin. I mean,

1008
00:52:30,680 --> 00:52:34,840
Speaker 2: we have dedicated as a company even so much time

1009
00:52:34,960 --> 00:52:37,560
Speaker 2: to this case in their lives. You know, we did

1010
00:52:37,680 --> 00:52:42,000
Speaker 2: three seasons of a podcast, the Idaho Massacre, And really

1011
00:52:42,000 --> 00:52:45,200
Speaker 2: when we started the podcast, and Courtney Jull attest to this,

1012
00:52:46,080 --> 00:52:48,799
Speaker 2: I think the spirit of the start of it was

1013
00:52:48,920 --> 00:52:52,960
Speaker 2: to disprove his guilt. It just didn't seem possible.

1014
00:52:53,080 --> 00:52:53,279
Speaker 7: You know.

1015
00:52:53,280 --> 00:52:55,799
Speaker 2: It was in the early stages of the investigation we

1016
00:52:55,800 --> 00:53:00,480
Speaker 2: were hoping to maybe find an alternate and alternate suspect.

1017
00:53:00,560 --> 00:53:02,880
Speaker 2: That was sort of how we began the process.

1018
00:53:02,640 --> 00:53:03,719
Speaker 3: Particularly from you.

1019
00:53:03,840 --> 00:53:07,080
Speaker 7: Yeah, it really was a thing you could you couldn't contee.

1020
00:53:06,680 --> 00:53:11,279
Speaker 7: Just why would this man, you know who, who is

1021
00:53:11,320 --> 00:53:15,040
Speaker 7: set up in a pretty outwardly good station in life.

1022
00:53:15,280 --> 00:53:16,880
Speaker 3: It seemed an impossibility.

1023
00:53:17,080 --> 00:53:19,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, it didn't add up, And you know, and then

1024
00:53:19,520 --> 00:53:21,560
Speaker 2: we did the documentary. You know, I worked on the

1025
00:53:21,560 --> 00:53:25,080
Speaker 2: documentary all of last year and frankly a little close

1026
00:53:25,120 --> 00:53:26,799
Speaker 2: to it. You know, you get a little close to

1027
00:53:27,160 --> 00:53:31,880
Speaker 2: cases with people that you don't know. And I've spoken

1028
00:53:31,880 --> 00:53:35,840
Speaker 2: to Melissa, so I know her as Melissa. You know,

1029
00:53:35,920 --> 00:53:40,759
Speaker 2: we've done We've had several conversations and stacking toward a

1030
00:53:40,840 --> 00:53:43,719
Speaker 2: podcasts and you know, not to say too too much

1031
00:53:43,800 --> 00:53:48,600
Speaker 2: other than it's a tough one. I had to ask myself,

1032
00:53:48,800 --> 00:53:51,800
Speaker 2: what is going on with me that I'm so obsessed

1033
00:53:51,800 --> 00:53:55,160
Speaker 2: with this particular case? Like why am I dedicating my

1034
00:53:56,200 --> 00:54:00,279
Speaker 2: entire brain space to one particular case. I didn't know

1035
00:54:00,360 --> 00:54:04,040
Speaker 2: the victims personally. Now I know their families and I

1036
00:54:04,080 --> 00:54:08,520
Speaker 2: feel hyper connected to the place. And then when Brian Coburger,

1037
00:54:08,800 --> 00:54:12,960
Speaker 2: you know, confessed I was annihilated, we all were, you know,

1038
00:54:13,000 --> 00:54:15,080
Speaker 2: I think we were making the show at that time,

1039
00:54:16,800 --> 00:54:19,760
Speaker 2: and it made me sick, you know, just straight up sick.

1040
00:54:20,200 --> 00:54:22,080
Speaker 2: And I think, if I'm honest with myself, and I've

1041
00:54:22,120 --> 00:54:24,640
Speaker 2: asked myself this so many times, why were you so

1042
00:54:24,680 --> 00:54:26,719
Speaker 2: obsessed with this case? And I think it's because I

1043
00:54:26,840 --> 00:54:30,240
Speaker 2: have the best brothers in the world. I'm the youngest

1044
00:54:30,239 --> 00:54:33,359
Speaker 2: of all boys. I'm obsessed with them. I'm obsessed with

1045
00:54:33,360 --> 00:54:37,520
Speaker 2: my family. And if you know one of them were

1046
00:54:37,520 --> 00:54:40,520
Speaker 2: being accused, not that they would. This is not a

1047
00:54:40,560 --> 00:54:43,920
Speaker 2: situation that we'll find ourselves and thank God, But if

1048
00:54:44,120 --> 00:54:46,840
Speaker 2: somebody you love so much and you know so deeply

1049
00:54:47,440 --> 00:54:51,520
Speaker 2: was accused of something, would you tell would you turn

1050
00:54:51,600 --> 00:54:54,040
Speaker 2: them in? You know, you think about some of the

1051
00:54:54,080 --> 00:54:58,840
Speaker 2: cross points that you know maybe she's thinking about in retrospect.

1052
00:54:59,440 --> 00:55:00,719
Speaker 3: Where where do you put that?

1053
00:55:01,040 --> 00:55:04,400
Speaker 2: And you know, I've said this openly, and my opinion

1054
00:55:04,440 --> 00:55:07,360
Speaker 2: is different now having worked on this case. At first,

1055
00:55:07,360 --> 00:55:09,880
Speaker 2: I was like, nope, I would never say a word.

1056
00:55:10,040 --> 00:55:13,000
Speaker 2: You know, I am a locked box. I am somebody

1057
00:55:13,040 --> 00:55:15,760
Speaker 2: who would stand to the death for somebody that I loved,

1058
00:55:16,160 --> 00:55:19,080
Speaker 2: And until I heard it from them directly, until they

1059
00:55:19,160 --> 00:55:23,000
Speaker 2: confess to my face, I would never ever ever believe

1060
00:55:23,040 --> 00:55:25,400
Speaker 2: it about my brother's period.

1061
00:55:25,080 --> 00:55:28,239
Speaker 3: And so I always had a certain.

1062
00:55:27,960 --> 00:55:31,920
Speaker 2: Soft spot for his sisters and his mother and his father.

1063
00:55:32,280 --> 00:55:34,880
Speaker 2: And I think that's sort of what was the crazy

1064
00:55:34,920 --> 00:55:37,239
Speaker 2: making piece of this case, because yeah, it doesn't add up.

1065
00:55:37,560 --> 00:55:40,200
Speaker 2: It is a very rare thing for a person who

1066
00:55:40,239 --> 00:55:44,399
Speaker 2: was born into a lovely family that loved him very

1067
00:55:44,480 --> 00:55:47,400
Speaker 2: very much. They all did by all accounts and he

1068
00:55:47,520 --> 00:55:52,200
Speaker 2: had education and you know they had, you know, finances,

1069
00:55:52,280 --> 00:55:55,120
Speaker 2: Dad was you know, maybe they weren't like wealthy wealthy,

1070
00:55:55,160 --> 00:55:58,480
Speaker 2: but you know they were class yeah, like you know

1071
00:55:58,520 --> 00:56:00,560
Speaker 2: the rest of us, and did ever to put their

1072
00:56:00,640 --> 00:56:03,160
Speaker 2: kid through school and he had a lot of opportunity

1073
00:56:04,080 --> 00:56:06,960
Speaker 2: Like that doesn't track for me, and it was crazy making.

1074
00:56:07,560 --> 00:56:09,640
Speaker 2: And then you know, have had the benefit of speaking

1075
00:56:09,680 --> 00:56:14,000
Speaker 2: to Melissa directly, and I have a lot of compassion

1076
00:56:14,040 --> 00:56:16,320
Speaker 2: for them. Can you imagine like being in the cross

1077
00:56:16,320 --> 00:56:19,760
Speaker 2: sections of this, and I can say that she's hyper

1078
00:56:19,840 --> 00:56:23,120
Speaker 2: concerned about you know, speaking out and having that be

1079
00:56:23,320 --> 00:56:28,640
Speaker 2: misinterpreted by victims' families, you know, because they're very very

1080
00:56:29,080 --> 00:56:31,160
Speaker 2: uh you know, it's two things can be the I

1081
00:56:31,200 --> 00:56:33,279
Speaker 2: guess that's the lead. And I guess that's why it's

1082
00:56:33,280 --> 00:56:36,280
Speaker 2: still so confusing to me. And I'm still slightly obsessed

1083
00:56:36,360 --> 00:56:39,359
Speaker 2: and over this case all at the same time, which

1084
00:56:39,440 --> 00:56:42,279
Speaker 2: is I have two things can be true, like you

1085
00:56:42,320 --> 00:56:47,600
Speaker 2: can love somebody and still somehow try to reconcile the

1086
00:56:47,600 --> 00:56:51,160
Speaker 2: fact that this happened. And in my conversations and again,

1087
00:56:51,360 --> 00:56:52,920
Speaker 2: you know, this will lead to a podcast and we

1088
00:56:52,960 --> 00:56:56,839
Speaker 2: can't wait for you to hear it. It's a it's

1089
00:56:56,840 --> 00:56:59,080
Speaker 2: a tough one. You know, your brain can only handle

1090
00:56:59,160 --> 00:57:02,560
Speaker 2: so much. I think even her saying, you know, I

1091
00:57:02,680 --> 00:57:05,200
Speaker 2: talked to my brother, but we don't talk about the

1092
00:57:05,200 --> 00:57:08,400
Speaker 2: specifics of the case. Like isn't that like compartmentalizing at

1093
00:57:08,440 --> 00:57:11,640
Speaker 2: our best? And I can say, you know, without saying

1094
00:57:11,640 --> 00:57:17,320
Speaker 2: too much, that you know she's very empathetic, she's strikingly sincere.

1095
00:57:18,600 --> 00:57:19,520
Speaker 3: It's a tough spot.

1096
00:57:19,640 --> 00:57:22,200
Speaker 2: You know, she had a really great job as a therapist,

1097
00:57:22,280 --> 00:57:25,440
Speaker 2: and the media was blowing them up so much. And

1098
00:57:25,680 --> 00:57:28,000
Speaker 2: you know, you know, you got to imagine too. We

1099
00:57:28,040 --> 00:57:30,280
Speaker 2: don't do this at KAT and we're so careful about it,

1100
00:57:30,360 --> 00:57:34,200
Speaker 2: but when a case happens, you know, the swarm of

1101
00:57:34,360 --> 00:57:37,800
Speaker 2: press who attack your life and call everybody you've ever

1102
00:57:37,880 --> 00:57:40,280
Speaker 2: known in your entire life twenty four hours a day.

1103
00:57:40,640 --> 00:57:42,640
Speaker 2: Can you imagine you go into work as a therapist

1104
00:57:42,640 --> 00:57:46,400
Speaker 2: and suddenly the entire world is calling your boss. It

1105
00:57:46,400 --> 00:57:48,880
Speaker 2: wasn't like she was fired because she had terrible bosses.

1106
00:57:48,960 --> 00:57:49,720
Speaker 3: She wasn't even fired.

1107
00:57:49,720 --> 00:57:52,560
Speaker 2: It was like the phone won't stop ringing because your

1108
00:57:52,600 --> 00:57:56,920
Speaker 2: brother has been accused of something incredibly terrible and likely.

1109
00:57:57,160 --> 00:58:00,360
Speaker 2: I'm you know, I would have to assume you don't

1110
00:58:00,360 --> 00:58:00,760
Speaker 2: believe it.

1111
00:58:00,920 --> 00:58:02,640
Speaker 3: So there's great in the movie.

1112
00:58:03,640 --> 00:58:05,760
Speaker 2: And then the ripple effect we talk about, like the

1113
00:58:05,840 --> 00:58:08,200
Speaker 2: ripple effect. I think I'm like slightly obsessed with the

1114
00:58:08,240 --> 00:58:12,320
Speaker 2: idea of how one event it seems like it's affecting

1115
00:58:12,480 --> 00:58:15,240
Speaker 2: you know, a sample of people, but yet that sample

1116
00:58:15,280 --> 00:58:17,680
Speaker 2: of people, it's like it's like there's a ripple like

1117
00:58:17,800 --> 00:58:20,040
Speaker 2: into the water, right, Like there's so many people that

1118
00:58:20,120 --> 00:58:25,080
Speaker 2: are just tangentially destroyed by this generationally. And I think

1119
00:58:25,120 --> 00:58:30,160
Speaker 2: she's a very articulate speaker to that. And yeah, there's

1120
00:58:30,360 --> 00:58:32,840
Speaker 2: I think so much more to unfold in that. But

1121
00:58:34,080 --> 00:58:37,200
Speaker 2: you know, and even as I talk right now, you know,

1122
00:58:37,240 --> 00:58:40,200
Speaker 2: you worry that you know, victims' families who are also

1123
00:58:40,640 --> 00:58:43,000
Speaker 2: they're just coming out of the holidays, you know, they

1124
00:58:43,000 --> 00:58:45,880
Speaker 2: don't have their their beautiful kids with them because this

1125
00:58:46,200 --> 00:58:50,520
Speaker 2: creep decided to have like some thrill kill on a

1126
00:58:50,600 --> 00:58:53,840
Speaker 2: random day for no obvious reason, with no motive and

1127
00:58:53,880 --> 00:58:58,640
Speaker 2: no connection. Come on, Like that is unbelievable, Like how

1128
00:58:58,640 --> 00:59:01,120
Speaker 2: can you how do you rec knowing that it was

1129
00:59:01,160 --> 00:59:04,760
Speaker 2: incredibly senseless, right, like you didn't even know them, it

1130
00:59:04,840 --> 00:59:06,520
Speaker 2: was actually random.

1131
00:59:06,760 --> 00:59:06,960
Speaker 7: You know.

1132
00:59:07,080 --> 00:59:10,440
Speaker 2: Again, we did so many seasons of the podcast and

1133
00:59:10,480 --> 00:59:14,080
Speaker 2: you guys both included like there there had to have

1134
00:59:14,120 --> 00:59:14,560
Speaker 2: been a motive.

1135
00:59:14,600 --> 00:59:15,680
Speaker 3: There's always a weird motive.

1136
00:59:15,880 --> 00:59:19,160
Speaker 2: There's always like acutta backstory where you know, oh, that

1137
00:59:19,240 --> 00:59:21,880
Speaker 2: explains it a little bit like this went on because

1138
00:59:21,920 --> 00:59:22,280
Speaker 2: I think.

1139
00:59:22,160 --> 00:59:23,960
Speaker 6: We need to know what to avoid. What motive is

1140
00:59:24,120 --> 00:59:27,200
Speaker 6: good and needed to kill. That's the motive that you

1141
00:59:27,280 --> 00:59:29,160
Speaker 6: just needed to kill you.

1142
00:59:29,360 --> 00:59:31,960
Speaker 3: How scary that is. That the man is potential And that's.

1143
00:59:31,800 --> 00:59:33,600
Speaker 6: Why this case is so hard to let go of.

1144
00:59:34,320 --> 00:59:37,520
Speaker 6: It's because it's so rare and it's worth noting. I

1145
00:59:37,520 --> 00:59:40,680
Speaker 6: do believe you know that she is very empathetic, you

1146
00:59:40,680 --> 00:59:43,280
Speaker 6: know everything that you said. I definitely believe all that,

1147
00:59:43,520 --> 00:59:46,080
Speaker 6: but it is worth noting. She doesn't say he's innocent

1148
00:59:46,120 --> 00:59:46,760
Speaker 6: in this article.

1149
00:59:47,400 --> 00:59:50,240
Speaker 2: No, And I think there we do want there's more

1150
00:59:50,280 --> 00:59:52,040
Speaker 2: to come on that. And by the way, I saw

1151
00:59:52,080 --> 00:59:55,000
Speaker 2: some of the comments maybe on people you were just

1152
00:59:55,000 --> 00:59:56,920
Speaker 2: talking about this, we were talking about this on People

1153
00:59:56,960 --> 00:59:59,440
Speaker 2: magazine or whatever, and you know some people are like,

1154
00:59:59,440 --> 01:00:01,760
Speaker 2: why she's speaking, she's getting, you know, making money off

1155
01:00:01,760 --> 01:00:03,720
Speaker 2: of it. I don't think the New York Times now

1156
01:00:04,200 --> 01:00:07,400
Speaker 2: we don't pay people. I don't think they're getting paid

1157
01:00:07,440 --> 01:00:11,200
Speaker 2: for it. Honestly, and I do think it's very significant

1158
01:00:11,280 --> 01:00:15,520
Speaker 2: because a family member who has been through something where

1159
01:00:15,600 --> 01:00:20,000
Speaker 2: someone they love has done something a that's a complicated thing.

1160
01:00:20,080 --> 01:00:24,280
Speaker 2: But more importantly, how do we glean from their experience

1161
01:00:25,240 --> 01:00:28,120
Speaker 2: knowing what they know now? Well, how could they advise

1162
01:00:28,360 --> 01:00:31,200
Speaker 2: other families moving forward to sort of know what to

1163
01:00:31,280 --> 01:00:32,080
Speaker 2: even look for.

1164
01:00:32,560 --> 01:00:33,960
Speaker 3: It's like we were talking about.

1165
01:00:33,800 --> 01:00:36,560
Speaker 2: Rob Reiner last night and his horrific loss of he

1166
01:00:36,640 --> 01:00:38,760
Speaker 2: and his wife. It's not that we just want to

1167
01:00:38,840 --> 01:00:42,520
Speaker 2: like stick more oh more fuel to the crime conversation.

1168
01:00:42,640 --> 01:00:45,320
Speaker 3: It's really like, what do we take from this? Because

1169
01:00:45,320 --> 01:00:46,720
Speaker 3: these are human things?

1170
01:00:46,840 --> 01:00:49,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, Like, what do you do if you think something's

1171
01:00:49,720 --> 01:00:53,840
Speaker 2: a little off with your loved one and you can

1172
01:00:53,880 --> 01:00:57,320
Speaker 2: either explain it away, you can offer them help, you can't.

1173
01:00:57,440 --> 01:00:58,080
Speaker 3: What's the answer?

1174
01:00:58,080 --> 01:00:59,720
Speaker 2: We don't. I don't. I'm not even giving an answer.

1175
01:00:59,720 --> 01:01:02,920
Speaker 2: I don't know it, and God forbid, you know, anyone

1176
01:01:02,960 --> 01:01:06,240
Speaker 2: listening finds themselves in these scenarios. But I do think

1177
01:01:06,280 --> 01:01:09,880
Speaker 2: it's important for us to dig into it deeper, you

1178
01:01:09,920 --> 01:01:11,360
Speaker 2: know where appropriate.

1179
01:01:11,680 --> 01:01:14,160
Speaker 6: I do too, but you know, because it's important. But

1180
01:01:14,280 --> 01:01:16,040
Speaker 6: I think it's and I think it's important too. But

1181
01:01:16,120 --> 01:01:20,640
Speaker 6: Mel did say in the article. She said, even now,

1182
01:01:21,480 --> 01:01:23,880
Speaker 6: I expressed fear that I might say something that could

1183
01:01:23,920 --> 01:01:27,720
Speaker 6: further traumatize them. Yeah, families. So I think she's I

1184
01:01:27,760 --> 01:01:30,440
Speaker 6: think she might be like hesitant to talk, right.

1185
01:01:30,440 --> 01:01:33,520
Speaker 2: She's very nervous about it and understandably and understandably and

1186
01:01:33,640 --> 01:01:37,000
Speaker 2: if she's honest way, because she says, I'm yes, you

1187
01:01:37,000 --> 01:01:39,840
Speaker 2: can call it. She's been, she's had, she's been victimized

1188
01:01:39,880 --> 01:01:42,479
Speaker 2: by the scenario. Their lines have been turned upside down,

1189
01:01:42,560 --> 01:01:44,720
Speaker 2: you know, the amount of money, and there's so many

1190
01:01:44,760 --> 01:01:47,720
Speaker 2: things that maybe we took away from it as the media.

1191
01:01:47,840 --> 01:01:50,760
Speaker 2: I'm including myself in this from what I saw from

1192
01:01:50,760 --> 01:01:53,960
Speaker 2: the family as an outsider, looking in some assertions and

1193
01:01:53,960 --> 01:01:58,760
Speaker 2: assumptions that maybe we made. That she has good she

1194
01:01:58,800 --> 01:02:02,280
Speaker 2: has a really great perspect on which is important for

1195
01:02:02,400 --> 01:02:03,880
Speaker 2: us to understand it. I was like, what do we

1196
01:02:03,880 --> 01:02:07,720
Speaker 2: get wrong, Let's discuss it. And she's kind and smart

1197
01:02:07,840 --> 01:02:09,800
Speaker 2: and you know, I've been through it. It's just been

1198
01:02:09,800 --> 01:02:13,880
Speaker 2: through it. It's really good. Horrible human people. Yeah, and

1199
01:02:13,960 --> 01:02:16,320
Speaker 2: it's just a tip of the iceberg, and there's much

1200
01:02:16,320 --> 01:02:20,320
Speaker 2: more of it to come. But yeah, complicated, complicated, it

1201
01:02:20,480 --> 01:02:21,400
Speaker 2: is not that right.

1202
01:02:21,600 --> 01:02:25,200
Speaker 7: Well, listen, stick around coming up the Anna Kpner case

1203
01:02:25,600 --> 01:02:28,800
Speaker 7: is not standing still. There's been some new filings, There's

1204
01:02:28,840 --> 01:02:31,600
Speaker 7: been some new details revealed that kind of give a

1205
01:02:31,640 --> 01:02:34,480
Speaker 7: little bit of dynamics that we had not understood.

1206
01:02:34,680 --> 01:02:36,200
Speaker 3: Keep it here, True Crime Tonight.

1207
01:02:46,760 --> 01:02:49,720
Speaker 2: Welcome back to True Crime Tonight on iHeartRadio. We're talking

1208
01:02:49,760 --> 01:02:53,000
Speaker 2: true crime all the time. I'm Stephanie Leidecker here with

1209
01:02:53,120 --> 01:02:57,280
Speaker 2: Courtney Armstrong. Body move in, and I'm told we have

1210
01:02:57,560 --> 01:02:59,040
Speaker 2: Gina on the line.

1211
01:02:59,320 --> 01:03:02,400
Speaker 3: Gina, thank you so much for calling. Happy New Year,

1212
01:03:02,600 --> 01:03:03,280
Speaker 3: Oh thank you.

1213
01:03:03,960 --> 01:03:06,520
Speaker 11: Happy New Year to you. That's why I was calling.

1214
01:03:06,680 --> 01:03:09,080
Speaker 11: I just wanted to wish everybody a happy new year,

1215
01:03:09,160 --> 01:03:12,960
Speaker 11: miss y'all over the holidays. I'm happy that everybody's back

1216
01:03:13,160 --> 01:03:17,440
Speaker 11: and safe and we're off to a new year. So

1217
01:03:17,520 --> 01:03:20,200
Speaker 11: I'm hoping that'll be. I hope we get all manifest

1218
01:03:20,440 --> 01:03:24,880
Speaker 11: or pray for or hope for a really really good

1219
01:03:25,120 --> 01:03:26,120
Speaker 11: twenty twenty six.

1220
01:03:26,440 --> 01:03:29,600
Speaker 2: And we do that right now, all of us together,

1221
01:03:29,760 --> 01:03:32,800
Speaker 2: Let's like all inside our little brains like send out

1222
01:03:32,840 --> 01:03:36,080
Speaker 2: some good mojo to each other for a killer year.

1223
01:03:36,120 --> 01:03:36,960
Speaker 3: How was your holiday?

1224
01:03:37,160 --> 01:03:41,440
Speaker 11: Yeah, it was it was fine. It was you know.

1225
01:03:41,600 --> 01:03:43,840
Speaker 11: I actually talked to you guys a couple of months ago.

1226
01:03:43,880 --> 01:03:49,960
Speaker 3: I remember day do you remember? Yeah, we love you.

1227
01:03:50,600 --> 01:03:53,520
Speaker 11: I just oh, I love y'all too, that's all I

1228
01:03:53,520 --> 01:03:55,439
Speaker 11: was saying. I miss y'all over the holidays. So it's

1229
01:03:55,520 --> 01:03:58,160
Speaker 11: nice to hear reruns, but you know, it's not the same.

1230
01:03:58,720 --> 01:04:02,280
Speaker 11: I enjoy hearing y'all, but yeah, thank you, thank you

1231
01:04:02,320 --> 01:04:05,880
Speaker 11: so much. But yeah, so, I you know, then the

1232
01:04:05,880 --> 01:04:08,360
Speaker 11: holidays for me are a little bit different, but they

1233
01:04:08,400 --> 01:04:11,040
Speaker 11: were okay. This year was a better year than the

1234
01:04:11,080 --> 01:04:13,560
Speaker 11: past couple of years. So you know, it's just a

1235
01:04:13,600 --> 01:04:16,600
Speaker 11: little bit different for me. But I think it's that

1236
01:04:16,640 --> 01:04:19,320
Speaker 11: way for a lot of people now, and you know,

1237
01:04:19,640 --> 01:04:22,440
Speaker 11: difficult few years. So yeah, so I.

1238
01:04:22,280 --> 01:04:25,200
Speaker 2: Think everybody gets hit, right. I cried in my car

1239
01:04:25,280 --> 01:04:27,880
Speaker 2: more than once. I'm not gonna like, is there one

1240
01:04:27,960 --> 01:04:30,640
Speaker 2: wish that you have for yourself, Gina that we can

1241
01:04:30,720 --> 01:04:33,080
Speaker 2: manifest for you?

1242
01:04:31,400 --> 01:04:36,360
Speaker 11: You know, It's just I've had about the past well

1243
01:04:36,680 --> 01:04:38,760
Speaker 11: quite some time. I've been dealing with health issues but

1244
01:04:38,800 --> 01:04:43,360
Speaker 11: then also feeling all about my issues with you know,

1245
01:04:43,400 --> 01:04:46,320
Speaker 11: domestic violence and things like that. So I just feel

1246
01:04:46,320 --> 01:04:48,560
Speaker 11: like I'm sort of coming out of like a really

1247
01:04:48,920 --> 01:04:51,880
Speaker 11: deep I don't really want to say depression, but it's

1248
01:04:51,920 --> 01:04:55,160
Speaker 11: probably you know, sadness, depressions, a lot of mixed feelings

1249
01:04:55,200 --> 01:04:58,200
Speaker 11: and things, and I feel a little bit lighter. And

1250
01:04:58,360 --> 01:05:01,800
Speaker 11: so I'm hoping for that I'll just continue to heal

1251
01:05:01,840 --> 01:05:05,000
Speaker 11: because I've really been working in therapy and you know,

1252
01:05:05,080 --> 01:05:07,480
Speaker 11: doing a lot of reading with grief and things like that,

1253
01:05:07,640 --> 01:05:10,360
Speaker 11: doing a lot of work myself, and so I think

1254
01:05:10,400 --> 01:05:15,520
Speaker 11: that's that's been helping. So hoping, you know, just to

1255
01:05:15,640 --> 01:05:16,240
Speaker 11: continue that.

1256
01:05:17,120 --> 01:05:19,240
Speaker 6: I wish, I wish that for you, Gina, And I

1257
01:05:19,280 --> 01:05:21,120
Speaker 6: hope you know this is body by the way. I

1258
01:05:21,200 --> 01:05:23,480
Speaker 6: hope you know that you're not alone, Like there's so

1259
01:05:23,560 --> 01:05:26,240
Speaker 6: many people myself who struggle with that.

1260
01:05:26,760 --> 01:05:27,480
Speaker 3: You know, I cry.

1261
01:05:28,040 --> 01:05:31,160
Speaker 6: I cry every day, literally every day, Like I literally

1262
01:05:31,200 --> 01:05:39,680
Speaker 6: was crying five minutes before down thelf. Yeah, and the

1263
01:05:39,720 --> 01:05:42,240
Speaker 6: world is really heavy, and you know, we're carrying a

1264
01:05:42,240 --> 01:05:44,040
Speaker 6: lot of weight on our shoulders and it's a lot

1265
01:05:44,080 --> 01:05:46,720
Speaker 6: to deal with, and there's loneliness to deal with and whatnot,

1266
01:05:47,080 --> 01:05:48,840
Speaker 6: and the holidays just amplify that.

1267
01:05:48,920 --> 01:05:51,880
Speaker 3: So I hope you know you're not alone, and you're

1268
01:05:51,920 --> 01:05:52,200
Speaker 3: you know.

1269
01:05:52,360 --> 01:05:55,280
Speaker 6: We're in this village here and we're so glad that

1270
01:05:55,320 --> 01:05:56,880
Speaker 6: you're part of our family.

1271
01:05:57,240 --> 01:05:59,240
Speaker 2: Can I say one thing that I learned over the

1272
01:05:59,280 --> 01:06:03,160
Speaker 2: break too, is that, Okay, tears I might be getting

1273
01:06:03,200 --> 01:06:05,000
Speaker 2: I'm not a scientist, obviously I might be getting this

1274
01:06:05,040 --> 01:06:07,520
Speaker 2: a little bit wrong, but that tears have a composition

1275
01:06:07,880 --> 01:06:10,840
Speaker 2: that is almost like poison. Like you almost have to

1276
01:06:10,920 --> 01:06:14,360
Speaker 2: get tears of sadness or of grief or if you're

1277
01:06:14,520 --> 01:06:16,840
Speaker 2: noticing a seat at the table that's normally been filled

1278
01:06:16,880 --> 01:06:17,800
Speaker 2: and no longer is.

1279
01:06:18,200 --> 01:06:23,080
Speaker 3: It is appropriate to feel sad about that? Right? And crying.

1280
01:06:23,320 --> 01:06:25,720
Speaker 2: You know, we've all been taught like, you know, keep

1281
01:06:25,720 --> 01:06:28,120
Speaker 2: it in, keep it in, but actually it's really healthy

1282
01:06:28,280 --> 01:06:30,600
Speaker 2: to get it out. You know what you need to

1283
01:06:30,600 --> 01:06:33,360
Speaker 2: do is go see Habit the movie Hanet. Have you

1284
01:06:33,360 --> 01:06:33,920
Speaker 2: guys seen that?

1285
01:06:34,160 --> 01:06:37,080
Speaker 3: Oh you want to get a good cry in good Luck?

1286
01:06:37,640 --> 01:06:40,440
Speaker 2: You know it's a sad fest, but it's important to

1287
01:06:40,520 --> 01:06:44,680
Speaker 2: get it out, and that's, you know, cry with joy.

1288
01:06:44,840 --> 01:06:45,800
Speaker 2: I guess it's my point.

1289
01:06:46,360 --> 01:06:49,840
Speaker 11: Yes, yeah, you know it's actually watching something now that

1290
01:06:49,880 --> 01:06:51,480
Speaker 11: you're saying that, I don't remember what it was. I

1291
01:06:51,480 --> 01:06:53,480
Speaker 11: wish I could remember, because I was watching you just

1292
01:06:53,640 --> 01:06:57,360
Speaker 11: within the past few days and a person on that

1293
01:06:58,360 --> 01:07:03,120
Speaker 11: you know they should that's what crying grief leaving the body. Yeah,

1294
01:07:03,280 --> 01:07:05,840
Speaker 11: vibed it and I was like, wow, that is so true.

1295
01:07:05,800 --> 01:07:08,160
Speaker 2: And is what we get sick. Everybody gets sick if

1296
01:07:08,160 --> 01:07:09,480
Speaker 2: you keep it in it's toxic.

1297
01:07:09,560 --> 01:07:12,480
Speaker 11: Yes, yes, yeah, I have a lot of like I

1298
01:07:12,520 --> 01:07:14,520
Speaker 11: was saying, health issues, and I have a lot of

1299
01:07:15,040 --> 01:07:18,840
Speaker 11: immune system and issues far malgia, and it's you know,

1300
01:07:19,120 --> 01:07:23,000
Speaker 11: just so many things. I think people going through trauma

1301
01:07:23,080 --> 01:07:25,240
Speaker 11: and different things like that. I'm not saying that's what

1302
01:07:25,280 --> 01:07:27,440
Speaker 11: mine is from, but I do read that, you know,

1303
01:07:27,520 --> 01:07:30,000
Speaker 11: things like that cause that and I do believe right

1304
01:07:30,040 --> 01:07:34,520
Speaker 11: that a lot of people have various issues for those reasons.

1305
01:07:34,600 --> 01:07:38,000
Speaker 11: And I think heartbreaking really really is you're here.

1306
01:07:38,240 --> 01:07:39,760
Speaker 3: I think that correct.

1307
01:07:40,160 --> 01:07:42,040
Speaker 6: Thank you so much for calling you, and we really

1308
01:07:42,080 --> 01:07:43,840
Speaker 6: appreciate it, and we hope you have.

1309
01:07:43,880 --> 01:07:46,840
Speaker 3: The best twenty twenty six and don't be a stranger. Yes,

1310
01:07:46,880 --> 01:07:49,160
Speaker 3: please please it this year.

1311
01:07:49,280 --> 01:07:52,440
Speaker 2: Here's to health and happiness too.

1312
01:07:52,680 --> 01:07:54,960
Speaker 11: And I'm looking forward to a stack of your headline

1313
01:07:55,200 --> 01:07:56,880
Speaker 11: all right, Yes.

1314
01:07:58,000 --> 01:08:01,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, thank you, Gina.

1315
01:08:01,800 --> 01:08:04,200
Speaker 6: This is true crime, saying on iHeartRadio we're talking true

1316
01:08:04,240 --> 01:08:06,240
Speaker 6: crime all the time. I'm body moving and I'm here

1317
01:08:06,240 --> 01:08:09,160
Speaker 6: with Courtney Armstrong and Steph We just took a great

1318
01:08:09,200 --> 01:08:11,840
Speaker 6: call from one of our callers, Gina and now we're

1319
01:08:11,840 --> 01:08:13,880
Speaker 6: going to go into Anna Tepner. What do you got

1320
01:08:13,880 --> 01:08:14,360
Speaker 6: for es court?

1321
01:08:15,600 --> 01:08:20,160
Speaker 7: Okay, I got an update for you. So recent court

1322
01:08:20,200 --> 01:08:24,760
Speaker 7: filings reveal some scathing testimony and this is about the

1323
01:08:24,920 --> 01:08:29,759
Speaker 7: step family of eighteen year old Anna Kepner. And Anna

1324
01:08:29,840 --> 01:08:33,920
Speaker 7: Keepner was lost her life or you know, was killed.

1325
01:08:34,320 --> 01:08:37,320
Speaker 7: She was killed aboard a carnival cruise back in November

1326
01:08:37,400 --> 01:08:42,240
Speaker 7: of twenty twenty five, so this is recent. On November seventh,

1327
01:08:42,600 --> 01:08:47,120
Speaker 7: Anna Kapner, a cheerleader from Titusville, Florida, was found dead

1328
01:08:47,240 --> 01:08:50,280
Speaker 7: on this cruise ship cabin that she shared with her

1329
01:08:50,400 --> 01:08:53,320
Speaker 7: sixteen year old step brother as well as her.

1330
01:08:53,560 --> 01:08:54,719
Speaker 3: Fourteen year old half brother.

1331
01:08:55,479 --> 01:08:59,400
Speaker 7: Now, Anna Keptor's death has been ruled a homicide by

1332
01:08:59,479 --> 01:09:04,519
Speaker 7: mechanical exphyxiation, which is a kind of strangling or loss

1333
01:09:04,560 --> 01:09:08,639
Speaker 7: of air, and her sixteen year old stepbrother is being

1334
01:09:08,680 --> 01:09:11,920
Speaker 7: investigated as the prime suspect in her death. He really

1335
01:09:11,960 --> 01:09:14,680
Speaker 7: has been for since the beginning. The no charge is

1336
01:09:14,720 --> 01:09:20,840
Speaker 7: he publicly filed? Yeah, now again, this sixteen year old

1337
01:09:20,840 --> 01:09:25,639
Speaker 7: stepbrothers he's not arrested, he's not charged. Certainly a trial

1338
01:09:25,680 --> 01:09:30,760
Speaker 7: hasn't taken place. However, it is a complicated family Anna

1339
01:09:30,840 --> 01:09:35,200
Speaker 7: Kaptner was there with her biological father and her stepmother.

1340
01:09:35,560 --> 01:09:39,440
Speaker 7: Her stepmother also has three children, so it is emerging

1341
01:09:40,200 --> 01:09:45,640
Speaker 7: of these families, and there has been not relating to

1342
01:09:45,720 --> 01:09:50,160
Speaker 7: Anna Kepner's death, but relating to custody.

1343
01:09:50,280 --> 01:09:51,440
Speaker 3: There has been testimony.

1344
01:09:51,920 --> 01:09:54,880
Speaker 7: So here yeah, so here is some information that has

1345
01:09:54,920 --> 01:09:56,519
Speaker 7: been coming out through that channel.

1346
01:09:58,520 --> 01:10:00,200
Speaker 3: And just the really brief.

1347
01:10:00,080 --> 01:10:03,240
Speaker 7: Free cap of it was November two when the entire

1348
01:10:03,320 --> 01:10:06,800
Speaker 7: Kapner family boarded this cruise. They were planning to be

1349
01:10:06,840 --> 01:10:11,080
Speaker 7: there for six days, and five days later, on November seventh,

1350
01:10:12,160 --> 01:10:14,959
Speaker 7: Anna Kepner was found lifeless again.

1351
01:10:14,920 --> 01:10:16,240
Speaker 3: Under the cabin bed.

1352
01:10:16,320 --> 01:10:19,559
Speaker 7: She was covered in life jackets and she was found

1353
01:10:19,640 --> 01:10:24,280
Speaker 7: by a maid. The next day, the ship returned to

1354
01:10:24,520 --> 01:10:29,120
Speaker 7: Port Miami and Anna Keepner's body was removed, and at

1355
01:10:29,200 --> 01:10:33,320
Speaker 7: that point, the sixteen year old step brother was transferred

1356
01:10:34,000 --> 01:10:37,919
Speaker 7: to a facility for psychiatric evaluation. And this was before

1357
01:10:38,200 --> 01:10:41,959
Speaker 7: he was placed in the custody of an unknown relative, which.

1358
01:10:41,760 --> 01:10:45,920
Speaker 3: Is where he remains now. Okay, so is everyone such

1359
01:10:45,920 --> 01:10:46,640
Speaker 3: a good.

1360
01:10:46,560 --> 01:10:49,759
Speaker 2: Unpack because it's very complicated at the family tree and

1361
01:10:49,800 --> 01:10:50,800
Speaker 2: you just crushed.

1362
01:10:50,520 --> 01:10:53,280
Speaker 7: It, Okay, excellent, Just trying to keep it clear because

1363
01:10:53,280 --> 01:10:57,280
Speaker 7: it's it's it's it's interesting to see what's going on. Also,

1364
01:10:58,280 --> 01:11:04,120
Speaker 7: so again, this custody battle has left all of this

1365
01:11:04,240 --> 01:11:10,280
Speaker 7: information out. So there's been newly public test messages between

1366
01:11:10,560 --> 01:11:13,280
Speaker 7: the mother of the suspect who was on the ship

1367
01:11:13,840 --> 01:11:18,200
Speaker 7: and the biological father of the suspect, and these texts

1368
01:11:18,240 --> 01:11:24,080
Speaker 7: reveal their really intense concern about their investigation into their

1369
01:11:24,120 --> 01:11:30,320
Speaker 7: sixteen year old son. Understandably, now, the suspect's mother didn't

1370
01:11:30,400 --> 01:11:35,759
Speaker 7: even mention that anything happened until thirty two hours after

1371
01:11:35,800 --> 01:11:36,800
Speaker 7: Anna Keepner's death.

1372
01:11:37,040 --> 01:11:38,000
Speaker 3: That's a long time.

1373
01:11:38,400 --> 01:11:41,400
Speaker 7: And at that point the mom a board ship texted

1374
01:11:41,520 --> 01:11:46,120
Speaker 7: the father absolutely not on the ship, saying emergency, I

1375
01:11:46,160 --> 01:11:51,679
Speaker 7: need you to call me asap. She continued through text

1376
01:11:51,720 --> 01:11:54,679
Speaker 7: messages as a little bit of time went on, saying,

1377
01:11:55,160 --> 01:11:59,080
Speaker 7: nobody knows anything about him, referring to their son, the

1378
01:11:59,560 --> 01:12:03,000
Speaker 7: sixteen suspect. He is a minor and has been kept

1379
01:12:03,040 --> 01:12:05,519
Speaker 7: completely out of it. We have not said anything to

1380
01:12:05,520 --> 01:12:08,280
Speaker 7: anybody who We're trying our best to keep it completely out,

1381
01:12:08,920 --> 01:12:13,519
Speaker 7: so understand. And then she explained the suspect's mother explained

1382
01:12:14,240 --> 01:12:17,800
Speaker 7: that her son just keeps repeating over and over he

1383
01:12:17,840 --> 01:12:19,080
Speaker 7: can't remember.

1384
01:12:18,800 --> 01:12:23,720
Speaker 3: Anything, So yeah, that's that's what's been going on.

1385
01:12:24,280 --> 01:12:27,920
Speaker 2: But sixteen years old. So just so we're following this correct.

1386
01:12:28,040 --> 01:12:31,519
Speaker 2: So sixteen year old stepbrother of Anna Kepner Is is

1387
01:12:31,560 --> 01:12:33,559
Speaker 2: sort of the one that's being looked at the most

1388
01:12:33,800 --> 01:12:36,240
Speaker 2: for what we've read or what we know so far

1389
01:12:36,520 --> 01:12:40,640
Speaker 2: as a suspect. He has not been charged, and his

1390
01:12:40,880 --> 01:12:44,960
Speaker 2: biological father, who was not present at the time, was

1391
01:12:45,360 --> 01:12:49,639
Speaker 2: only notified, you know, maybe thirty two hours later. And

1392
01:12:50,280 --> 01:12:52,640
Speaker 2: that's a tough spot. You know, you're the dad, you

1393
01:12:52,640 --> 01:12:55,520
Speaker 2: would imagine you want to be brought into this conversation

1394
01:12:55,640 --> 01:13:01,400
Speaker 2: pretty quickly. And yeah, this is tough case also because

1395
01:13:01,400 --> 01:13:04,120
Speaker 2: they're so young and underage. I don't know why I'm

1396
01:13:04,160 --> 01:13:06,800
Speaker 2: a sucker for somebody under the age of eighteen, but

1397
01:13:07,120 --> 01:13:10,559
Speaker 2: I just want to believe that this isn't so well.

1398
01:13:11,720 --> 01:13:14,240
Speaker 7: Here's a little bit more that came out about the

1399
01:13:14,400 --> 01:13:15,880
Speaker 7: family dynamics.

1400
01:13:16,200 --> 01:13:18,680
Speaker 3: Okay, and so during.

1401
01:13:18,479 --> 01:13:23,599
Speaker 7: The custody hearing, the suspects eighteen year old brother took

1402
01:13:23,640 --> 01:13:28,000
Speaker 7: the stand and yeah, and body just made a face.

1403
01:13:27,840 --> 01:13:30,439
Speaker 2: Because wait, and by the way, we're not saying the

1404
01:13:30,560 --> 01:13:33,880
Speaker 2: name of the suspect on purpose. We've discussed this prior

1405
01:13:33,920 --> 01:13:37,640
Speaker 2: to the show. It's a minor. It doesn't seem appropriate.

1406
01:13:37,960 --> 01:13:41,120
Speaker 2: It's not for us to start naming names and pointing fingers.

1407
01:13:41,120 --> 01:13:45,320
Speaker 2: So we're purposely being you know, purpose not arrested. It's

1408
01:13:45,320 --> 01:13:48,000
Speaker 2: not charged. Yeah, we haven't forgotten it.

1409
01:13:48,600 --> 01:13:49,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, good, good point.

1410
01:13:50,760 --> 01:13:54,800
Speaker 7: So, during this custody hearing, the suspects eighteen year old

1411
01:13:54,880 --> 01:14:02,120
Speaker 7: brother took the stand and said that his mother, which

1412
01:14:02,160 --> 01:14:05,120
Speaker 7: is a shared brother of the suspect, So his mother

1413
01:14:06,040 --> 01:14:11,360
Speaker 7: and Anna Kepner's father placed him in a choke hold

1414
01:14:11,400 --> 01:14:12,960
Speaker 7: and restrained him in a vehicle.

1415
01:14:13,680 --> 01:14:15,160
Speaker 3: Do you follow what I just said.

1416
01:14:15,400 --> 01:14:19,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, So eighteen year old brother of the suspect accused

1417
01:14:19,680 --> 01:14:21,960
Speaker 2: was also on this cruise ship when this event happened.

1418
01:14:21,960 --> 01:14:24,320
Speaker 2: He was just in another room, right, he was also

1419
01:14:24,400 --> 01:14:25,160
Speaker 2: on this trip.

1420
01:14:25,760 --> 01:14:28,240
Speaker 7: I don't believe he was on this trip because this

1421
01:14:28,479 --> 01:14:31,240
Speaker 7: eighteen year old he was not. And he's had limited

1422
01:14:31,400 --> 01:14:36,040
Speaker 7: contact with his mother since twenty twenty three, so.

1423
01:14:36,320 --> 01:14:40,040
Speaker 2: He's not crazy for the stepfather, Anna Kepner's actual father

1424
01:14:40,520 --> 01:14:41,840
Speaker 2: and or his own mother.

1425
01:14:42,200 --> 01:14:42,720
Speaker 4: Wow.

1426
01:14:42,800 --> 01:14:45,639
Speaker 3: And again, so he's been a little estranged.

1427
01:14:45,640 --> 01:14:49,280
Speaker 7: He was not on the trip, but the fact that

1428
01:14:49,400 --> 01:14:51,799
Speaker 7: he testified that he was placed in a choke hold

1429
01:14:52,720 --> 01:14:57,000
Speaker 7: by his mother and stepfather.

1430
01:14:57,400 --> 01:15:00,120
Speaker 4: Old men have put him. He's saying, both parents to

1431
01:15:00,120 --> 01:15:01,479
Speaker 4: have done this. Is that what he's saying?

1432
01:15:01,560 --> 01:15:05,559
Speaker 6: Yeah, but I mean there were no entries into that

1433
01:15:05,680 --> 01:15:10,360
Speaker 6: room according to the ship's logs. Other right now, But

1434
01:15:10,439 --> 01:15:15,080
Speaker 6: if the sixteen year old son witnessed it, I mean, learn.

1435
01:15:14,960 --> 01:15:18,559
Speaker 7: Behavior, if and if that's exactly right.

1436
01:15:18,640 --> 01:15:21,400
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm not suggesting that. I'm just talking to mom

1437
01:15:21,439 --> 01:15:21,840
Speaker 3: and dad.

1438
01:15:21,920 --> 01:15:27,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, can I ask one questions not to complicate it further,

1439
01:15:28,160 --> 01:15:30,320
Speaker 2: which it seems like I'm about to am I able

1440
01:15:30,320 --> 01:15:32,479
Speaker 2: to do this in two minutes. Okay, So this is

1441
01:15:33,280 --> 01:15:37,439
Speaker 2: suspects family. They seem to have a contentious divorce on

1442
01:15:37,479 --> 01:15:38,200
Speaker 2: their side.

1443
01:15:38,560 --> 01:15:40,439
Speaker 3: You know, biological father of the.

1444
01:15:40,360 --> 01:15:43,680
Speaker 2: Suspects, thirty two hours later is finding out that his

1445
01:15:43,840 --> 01:15:47,800
Speaker 2: biological son is being brought you know, potentially into the

1446
01:15:47,840 --> 01:15:51,479
Speaker 2: police's I as a suspect of murder, you would think

1447
01:15:51,520 --> 01:15:55,160
Speaker 2: that should be the first call, despite there being anything contentious.

1448
01:15:56,080 --> 01:15:58,160
Speaker 3: And then on the.

1449
01:15:57,400 --> 01:16:01,639
Speaker 2: Mother the other side, which is the stepmother's side, Anna

1450
01:16:01,720 --> 01:16:05,880
Speaker 2: Keptner's stepmother, suspects biological mother, that's them.

1451
01:16:06,560 --> 01:16:08,440
Speaker 3: Then Anna Kepner has a father.

1452
01:16:08,800 --> 01:16:11,720
Speaker 2: Who was also present on this ship, who has an

1453
01:16:11,760 --> 01:16:15,800
Speaker 2: ex wife. Anna Kepner's biological mother, and wasn't she prevented

1454
01:16:16,520 --> 01:16:19,479
Speaker 2: from coming to the funeral of her own daughter and

1455
01:16:19,520 --> 01:16:20,720
Speaker 2: she had to go in disguise.

1456
01:16:21,200 --> 01:16:24,800
Speaker 7: You are right, that's correct, And I don't know anything

1457
01:16:24,920 --> 01:16:27,360
Speaker 7: further about that, but there has to be some I

1458
01:16:27,360 --> 01:16:31,719
Speaker 7: would imagine there's some other backstory there. There's court order

1459
01:16:32,320 --> 01:16:36,240
Speaker 7: for Anna Kepta's mother to be yet, But I don't

1460
01:16:36,280 --> 01:16:39,400
Speaker 7: know who doesn't have messy family dynamics. But you know,

1461
01:16:39,560 --> 01:16:42,160
Speaker 7: this is so extreme, you would think, you know, all

1462
01:16:42,240 --> 01:16:45,719
Speaker 7: bets are off when the someone there's been a murder

1463
01:16:45,880 --> 01:16:49,519
Speaker 7: and a sixteen year old is a potential suspect in

1464
01:16:49,560 --> 01:16:52,799
Speaker 7: that murder, seems like that's a time when you're like, okay,

1465
01:16:52,840 --> 01:16:54,880
Speaker 7: maybe we haven't been getting along in the custody thing

1466
01:16:54,920 --> 01:16:58,240
Speaker 7: got wonky and our relationship was a little sideways, but

1467
01:16:58,280 --> 01:17:00,000
Speaker 7: we got to come together right now for the same

1468
01:17:00,120 --> 01:17:05,320
Speaker 7: of our loved ones and our king, you would think,

1469
01:17:05,360 --> 01:17:08,479
Speaker 7: But yeah, there's a there's a lot going on. And

1470
01:17:08,560 --> 01:17:14,439
Speaker 7: then additionally, the father of the suspect has said that

1471
01:17:14,520 --> 01:17:18,360
Speaker 7: things in the home got much worse basically when Anna

1472
01:17:18,439 --> 01:17:21,880
Speaker 7: Kepner's father came and joined the brood and you know,

1473
01:17:22,320 --> 01:17:23,559
Speaker 7: made this blended family.

1474
01:17:24,200 --> 01:17:27,400
Speaker 3: That's his allegations. This is also a custody here. We

1475
01:17:27,520 --> 01:17:28,880
Speaker 3: have to keep in mind this is.

1476
01:17:30,720 --> 01:17:34,719
Speaker 6: Right, right, So he's going, I mean he the benefit

1477
01:17:34,760 --> 01:17:37,360
Speaker 6: there is that they make, you know, the home life

1478
01:17:37,439 --> 01:17:40,880
Speaker 6: of this other family look as horrible as possible, so

1479
01:17:40,920 --> 01:17:42,720
Speaker 6: they get the custody they want, right. I mean, I'm

1480
01:17:42,720 --> 01:17:44,639
Speaker 6: not saying that's what happening, right, you know.

1481
01:17:44,720 --> 01:17:46,280
Speaker 4: That's a fair reason why.

1482
01:17:46,720 --> 01:17:47,880
Speaker 3: That's a really fair point.

1483
01:17:48,479 --> 01:17:52,800
Speaker 7: But the eighteen year old, I mean saying that he

1484
01:17:53,240 --> 01:17:56,600
Speaker 7: was a victim to choking to restrain.

1485
01:17:56,200 --> 01:17:59,840
Speaker 6: It, did he say like that it was witnessed by

1486
01:18:00,120 --> 01:18:03,799
Speaker 6: buddy or I mean, did they give it an indication

1487
01:18:03,920 --> 01:18:05,880
Speaker 6: if if there were other people in the vehicles you.

1488
01:18:05,880 --> 01:18:06,559
Speaker 3: Would miss it.

1489
01:18:06,720 --> 01:18:08,880
Speaker 7: I don't know the answer to that. I should look

1490
01:18:08,960 --> 01:18:10,840
Speaker 7: into that, but I don't know the answer to that.

1491
01:18:11,200 --> 01:18:11,800
Speaker 3: I don't know either.

1492
01:18:13,360 --> 01:18:16,760
Speaker 2: Well, may Anna Kepner, Sweet Anna Keepner, eighteen years old.

1493
01:18:16,840 --> 01:18:19,920
Speaker 2: May she rest in peace? Right and well this justice

1494
01:18:19,960 --> 01:18:21,000
Speaker 2: be found right?

1495
01:18:21,439 --> 01:18:23,960
Speaker 3: Stick around because we've got more to dig into coming up.

1496
01:18:24,040 --> 01:18:25,360
Speaker 3: We've got some talkbacks.

1497
01:18:25,640 --> 01:18:28,360
Speaker 6: Keep it right here a true Crime Tonight.

1498
01:18:38,000 --> 01:18:40,920
Speaker 2: Welcome back to True Crime Tonight on iHeartRadio. We've been

1499
01:18:40,920 --> 01:18:43,680
Speaker 2: talking true crime all the time. I'm staff here with

1500
01:18:43,760 --> 01:18:46,240
Speaker 2: Courtney and body and we have a little bit of

1501
01:18:46,240 --> 01:18:50,280
Speaker 2: the gig giggles, the giggles in the break. By the way,

1502
01:18:50,360 --> 01:18:56,400
Speaker 2: Corny Armstrong and your watercolor painting ability has really brought

1503
01:18:56,400 --> 01:18:58,000
Speaker 2: down the house so high.

1504
01:18:58,040 --> 01:19:00,240
Speaker 3: Five hats off. We're all tapping in two.

1505
01:19:00,280 --> 01:19:03,559
Speaker 2: Our inner are inner artists, and.

1506
01:19:04,280 --> 01:19:07,120
Speaker 3: I'm into it. Let us, let us awaken the artist within.

1507
01:19:07,439 --> 01:19:09,599
Speaker 2: Yeah, we told Courtney she needs to start doing true

1508
01:19:09,640 --> 01:19:13,439
Speaker 2: crime tonight artwork for our listeners. Think how relaxed and

1509
01:19:13,479 --> 01:19:17,400
Speaker 2: calm you'll be. If you're just painting all day, you'll

1510
01:19:17,400 --> 01:19:22,920
Speaker 2: be so meditated. And you know, but you meditate every

1511
01:19:23,000 --> 01:19:27,320
Speaker 2: day every way. Courtney's also always very calm. I've actually

1512
01:19:27,400 --> 01:19:28,920
Speaker 2: never seen you super crazed.

1513
01:19:30,160 --> 01:19:30,559
Speaker 3: Uh.

1514
01:19:30,680 --> 01:19:33,439
Speaker 7: You know, I was actually thinking of something generally I do,

1515
01:19:33,640 --> 01:19:36,959
Speaker 7: like to my uncle said, a palm tree and a hurricane,

1516
01:19:36,960 --> 01:19:41,920
Speaker 7: and I actually I use that the especially production can

1517
01:19:41,920 --> 01:19:44,320
Speaker 7: be a lot of a lot of create you know,

1518
01:19:44,760 --> 01:19:46,959
Speaker 7: a lot of let's damp it up and pour gasoline

1519
01:19:46,960 --> 01:19:50,200
Speaker 7: on the fire. And I'm like, poor, take one breath.

1520
01:19:50,240 --> 01:19:53,040
Speaker 3: And that's what Karen does, say she goes or.

1521
01:19:54,560 --> 01:19:57,240
Speaker 7: But Stephanie, I don't know why I was thinking of this,

1522
01:19:57,360 --> 01:19:59,439
Speaker 7: but there was this one project and it did end

1523
01:19:59,479 --> 01:20:03,240
Speaker 7: up going to series, but we had to write and

1524
01:20:03,280 --> 01:20:07,120
Speaker 7: write I'm talking without exaggeration, hundreds of pages. You might

1525
01:20:07,160 --> 01:20:10,400
Speaker 7: remember it was a certain executive and I literally threw

1526
01:20:10,520 --> 01:20:13,120
Speaker 7: I had written seventy pages of the same thing, and

1527
01:20:13,160 --> 01:20:15,000
Speaker 7: I threw it across the room in your desk.

1528
01:20:15,040 --> 01:20:17,320
Speaker 3: I thought of that. I had like a shame that.

1529
01:20:19,120 --> 01:20:22,040
Speaker 2: Was you were still a palm tree in a hurricane.

1530
01:20:22,240 --> 01:20:24,839
Speaker 2: It was just a palm tree and like a pretend

1531
01:20:24,920 --> 01:20:27,760
Speaker 2: hurricane that we didn't put upon us like we at

1532
01:20:27,760 --> 01:20:31,519
Speaker 2: that point realized we were in a pretend hurricane that

1533
01:20:31,680 --> 01:20:36,400
Speaker 2: was personal from a person, not because of the writing

1534
01:20:36,800 --> 01:20:39,240
Speaker 2: or more detail being needed. That was just like a

1535
01:20:39,280 --> 01:20:43,120
Speaker 2: crazy making moment, and even in a crazy making moment,

1536
01:20:43,240 --> 01:20:47,519
Speaker 2: that was just appropriate that you weren't like off your rails,

1537
01:20:47,760 --> 01:20:52,280
Speaker 2: you know, that was a pure table Yeah exactly. I

1538
01:20:52,320 --> 01:20:54,519
Speaker 2: thought it was fun and she was right, and I

1539
01:20:54,560 --> 01:20:58,360
Speaker 2: loved it. I was like more, please, yeah, I love it.

1540
01:20:58,439 --> 01:21:02,560
Speaker 3: But when Courtney's done, oh it's done. Yeah yeah, and that's.

1541
01:21:02,320 --> 01:21:06,000
Speaker 2: True, but you are your your our favorite palm tree.

1542
01:21:06,080 --> 01:21:08,040
Speaker 2: And Body just jumped in and said that she.

1543
01:21:08,240 --> 01:21:22,200
Speaker 3: Is the her, that's the perfect It's definite weather in general. Well,

1544
01:21:22,280 --> 01:21:26,040
Speaker 3: this tycoon. You know again, this is a crazy story.

1545
01:21:26,240 --> 01:21:34,280
Speaker 2: So this very impressive, successful farming tycoon man apparently going

1546
01:21:34,360 --> 01:21:39,320
Speaker 2: through a very you know, difficult breakup of sorts. Boy,

1547
01:21:39,680 --> 01:21:41,360
Speaker 2: I mean boy, this is one of those doozy of

1548
01:21:41,439 --> 01:21:43,360
Speaker 2: a case. His body tell us everything.

1549
01:21:43,760 --> 01:21:46,679
Speaker 6: Yeah, so tycoon. When when I hear the word tycoon,

1550
01:21:46,720 --> 01:21:48,479
Speaker 6: I think of like a super villain. I don't know why,

1551
01:21:49,360 --> 01:21:54,040
Speaker 6: but Michael Abadi, he's a California farming tycoon. And he's

1552
01:21:54,120 --> 01:21:58,879
Speaker 6: been extradited from California to Arizona and plaid not guilty

1553
01:21:59,040 --> 01:22:03,439
Speaker 6: to first degree in the fatal shooting of his estranged wife,

1554
01:22:04,160 --> 01:22:07,799
Speaker 6: Carrie and a body. So this happened right before Thanksgiving

1555
01:22:07,920 --> 01:22:11,920
Speaker 6: November twentieth. Fifty nine year old Carrie and a body

1556
01:22:12,080 --> 01:22:15,960
Speaker 6: was killed at her hind Top, Arizona home during this

1557
01:22:16,280 --> 01:22:17,280
Speaker 6: bitter divorce.

1558
01:22:17,640 --> 01:22:17,920
Speaker 3: Okay.

1559
01:22:18,640 --> 01:22:23,480
Speaker 6: Authorities are alleging that this farming tycoon, Michael Abodi, traveled

1560
01:22:24,000 --> 01:22:27,000
Speaker 6: from California to Arizona, and you know they're right next

1561
01:22:27,000 --> 01:22:27,559
Speaker 6: door to each other.

1562
01:22:27,920 --> 01:22:29,800
Speaker 3: California to Arizona.

1563
01:22:29,920 --> 01:22:35,519
Speaker 6: Shot his exchanged wife Carrie Anne through a window and

1564
01:22:35,600 --> 01:22:40,000
Speaker 6: then drove back home before being arrested. So she was

1565
01:22:40,120 --> 01:22:42,599
Speaker 6: found Carrie a body. She was found by her nephew

1566
01:22:43,240 --> 01:22:45,840
Speaker 6: and she suffered a gunshot wound inside her home and

1567
01:22:45,920 --> 01:22:50,280
Speaker 6: she later died at the hospital. A neighbor reported hearing

1568
01:22:50,320 --> 01:22:53,719
Speaker 6: a loud boom around nine pm, and the neighbor initially

1569
01:22:53,760 --> 01:22:56,760
Speaker 6: thought it was like a propane explosion. In investigator's leader

1570
01:22:56,760 --> 01:23:00,559
Speaker 6: confirmed it was the gunshot. Michael Abody this arming I'm

1571
01:23:00,560 --> 01:23:01,759
Speaker 6: not going to ever stop saying.

1572
01:23:01,560 --> 01:23:04,519
Speaker 4: That, the farming market, farming tycoon.

1573
01:23:04,120 --> 01:23:06,640
Speaker 3: Because it sounds like it makes me think of that

1574
01:23:06,800 --> 01:23:12,400
Speaker 3: old show Dallas. I say, Jr. Yeah, but like tycoons

1575
01:23:12,479 --> 01:23:15,600
Speaker 3: and yeah, yeah, sounds like so wealthy.

1576
01:23:16,080 --> 01:23:19,559
Speaker 6: Right, I never knew there was farming tycoons. So he's

1577
01:23:19,600 --> 01:23:22,519
Speaker 6: sixty three and he's from El Centro, California, and he

1578
01:23:22,640 --> 01:23:26,680
Speaker 6: was arrested on December twenty third, so a month, like

1579
01:23:26,760 --> 01:23:30,360
Speaker 6: a month of three days later, right, Wow, it's crazy.

1580
01:23:31,200 --> 01:23:33,840
Speaker 6: The couple that No, this couple was going through this

1581
01:23:33,960 --> 01:23:39,120
Speaker 6: super bitter divorce where Carrie Ann, the victim, had accused

1582
01:23:39,680 --> 01:23:44,600
Speaker 6: the farming tycoon, Michael Abadi, of hiding financial information and

1583
01:23:45,080 --> 01:23:48,240
Speaker 6: she said that she was struggling on temporary spousal support,

1584
01:23:48,800 --> 01:23:52,599
Speaker 6: while the farming tycoon said that the family farm couldn't

1585
01:23:52,640 --> 01:23:58,839
Speaker 6: afford any higher payments. In twenty eighteen, Michael Abadi, this tycoon,

1586
01:23:59,000 --> 01:24:03,719
Speaker 6: the suspect in his crops were reportedly worth an excess

1587
01:24:03,760 --> 01:24:05,400
Speaker 6: of ten million dollars.

1588
01:24:06,960 --> 01:24:07,120
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1589
01:24:07,240 --> 01:24:10,519
Speaker 6: In a twenty twenty five divorce filing, Michael Abadie's a

1590
01:24:10,520 --> 01:24:14,679
Speaker 6: Strange wife, the victim, Carrie Anne, estimated his gross monthly

1591
01:24:14,800 --> 01:24:18,360
Speaker 6: income of over one hundred and seventy eight thousand dollars,

1592
01:24:18,479 --> 01:24:20,080
Speaker 6: So everyone getting.

1593
01:24:21,040 --> 01:24:23,760
Speaker 2: Seventy eight dollars dollars right.

1594
01:24:25,320 --> 01:24:28,599
Speaker 6: He had been awarded millions of dollars in publicly funded

1595
01:24:28,800 --> 01:24:33,200
Speaker 6: energy contracts. So after the split, Carrie Anne the victim here,

1596
01:24:34,200 --> 01:24:37,440
Speaker 6: she was granted five thousand dollars a month in temporary

1597
01:24:37,520 --> 01:24:40,799
Speaker 6: spousal support, but last year she asked for an increase

1598
01:24:40,880 --> 01:24:44,719
Speaker 6: to thirty thousand dollars, saying she couldn't maintain the standard

1599
01:24:44,800 --> 01:24:49,040
Speaker 6: of living thirty thousand dollars a month, well, her.

1600
01:24:49,040 --> 01:24:51,720
Speaker 7: Standard of standard of living. And I don't know how

1601
01:24:51,800 --> 01:24:53,960
Speaker 7: long there we were married, but that is often what

1602
01:24:54,080 --> 01:24:56,920
Speaker 7: needs to be met. And this guy was making over

1603
01:24:57,040 --> 01:25:00,160
Speaker 7: forty four thousand dollars a week, one.

1604
01:25:00,160 --> 01:25:03,120
Speaker 6: Hundred and seventy eight thousand A good point, right, Yeah,

1605
01:25:03,320 --> 01:25:05,479
Speaker 6: so I can understand why we give that to the homeless.

1606
01:25:06,000 --> 01:25:08,200
Speaker 2: Can we solve some problems some of this money, like

1607
01:25:08,320 --> 01:25:10,439
Speaker 2: times that go away? Everyone could be a little happier

1608
01:25:11,400 --> 01:25:14,360
Speaker 2: that as Yeah, sorry, I digress.

1609
01:25:15,160 --> 01:25:18,640
Speaker 6: So she asked for this thirty thousand dollars saying she

1610
01:25:18,680 --> 01:25:21,040
Speaker 6: couldn't maintain her standard of living. So she had asked

1611
01:25:21,080 --> 01:25:25,080
Speaker 6: for a lot more money every month. And so authorities conducted,

1612
01:25:25,120 --> 01:25:29,120
Speaker 6: you know, a really thorough investigation, including four days processing

1613
01:25:29,240 --> 01:25:33,639
Speaker 6: her home, talking to neighbors, reviewing surveillance, interviewing family, talking

1614
01:25:33,720 --> 01:25:39,040
Speaker 6: to her associates, and they executed multiple search warrants in California.

1615
01:25:39,640 --> 01:25:43,560
Speaker 6: So on December thirtieth, the tycoon Michael Abbadi, he was

1616
01:25:43,680 --> 01:25:47,559
Speaker 6: extradited to Arizona and entered a plea of not guilty

1617
01:25:47,720 --> 01:25:52,360
Speaker 6: in Navajo County Superior Court on New Year's Eve. So, yeah,

1618
01:25:52,400 --> 01:25:55,360
Speaker 6: he's being held on a five point five million dollar bond.

1619
01:25:55,479 --> 01:25:59,000
Speaker 6: His lawyers have raised concerned about his health, okay, and

1620
01:25:59,160 --> 01:26:02,160
Speaker 6: struss that he is resumed innocent and deserves a fair trial.

1621
01:26:02,920 --> 01:26:07,040
Speaker 6: So pre trial conferences and releases and hearings are scheduled

1622
01:26:07,120 --> 01:26:11,080
Speaker 6: for March. So Saint Patrick's Day, March seventeenth, my favorite day.

1623
01:26:11,080 --> 01:26:14,640
Speaker 2: Okay, both of you. It's like your national Fay. I

1624
01:26:14,880 --> 01:26:17,920
Speaker 2: love guys, love Saint Patti's. So I want to get

1625
01:26:17,960 --> 01:26:18,599
Speaker 2: on board this year.

1626
01:26:18,760 --> 01:26:20,160
Speaker 3: I love it. I love it.

1627
01:26:20,640 --> 01:26:23,519
Speaker 6: So authorities haven't publicly announced a motive, but I mean,

1628
01:26:23,520 --> 01:26:27,320
Speaker 6: I think the financial yeah, it seems pretty clear, but

1629
01:26:27,400 --> 01:26:28,519
Speaker 6: maybe there's more we don't know.

1630
01:26:29,600 --> 01:26:32,080
Speaker 7: Also, just one more thing on the standard of living.

1631
01:26:32,160 --> 01:26:36,559
Speaker 7: And I know you understandably Stephanie asking. It's a lot

1632
01:26:36,600 --> 01:26:39,600
Speaker 7: of cash, for sure. Carrie and a body also was

1633
01:26:39,680 --> 01:26:41,640
Speaker 7: married to this man for thirty one years and they

1634
01:26:41,720 --> 01:26:45,320
Speaker 7: had three children. I don't know what the structure of

1635
01:26:45,400 --> 01:26:49,640
Speaker 7: their relationship was, but if she spent three decades of

1636
01:26:49,800 --> 01:26:56,200
Speaker 7: her life with a killer potentially allegedly raising their you

1637
01:26:56,240 --> 01:26:59,320
Speaker 7: know tycoon, yeah exactly.

1638
01:26:59,400 --> 01:27:02,200
Speaker 2: I mean why he's such a successful tycoon potentially.

1639
01:27:06,160 --> 01:27:09,599
Speaker 6: And his family has long been influential in California's Imperial

1640
01:27:09,720 --> 01:27:12,240
Speaker 6: Valley farming community. And if you know anything about I mean,

1641
01:27:12,240 --> 01:27:15,040
Speaker 6: I grew up in California and in southern California specifically,

1642
01:27:15,640 --> 01:27:18,880
Speaker 6: and you know a lot of the nation's vegetab fruit

1643
01:27:18,920 --> 01:27:23,040
Speaker 6: and vegetables comes from California. I don't realize that, you know,

1644
01:27:23,479 --> 01:27:27,920
Speaker 6: extraordinary amount like if California stopped making food, Oh, there'd

1645
01:27:27,960 --> 01:27:30,640
Speaker 6: be a problem, so I mean for the nation and

1646
01:27:30,720 --> 01:27:35,680
Speaker 6: people would start like literally, So these farming guys make

1647
01:27:35,720 --> 01:27:36,800
Speaker 6: a lot of money, you know.

1648
01:27:37,479 --> 01:27:39,799
Speaker 3: So let's just say.

1649
01:27:40,560 --> 01:27:42,880
Speaker 2: Soever holds the money holds all the cards.

1650
01:27:43,840 --> 01:27:47,000
Speaker 6: So law enforcement from both Arizona and California work together

1651
01:27:47,080 --> 01:27:49,680
Speaker 6: to investigate the case. And this is interesting to me

1652
01:27:49,800 --> 01:27:52,800
Speaker 6: because it ties kind of into Melody Buzzard a little

1653
01:27:52,800 --> 01:27:58,000
Speaker 6: bit because the jurisdiction stuff, like Melody Buzzard was murdered

1654
01:27:58,080 --> 01:28:01,400
Speaker 6: in Utah, but the planning happened in California, which is

1655
01:28:01,439 --> 01:28:05,320
Speaker 6: why Ashley Buzzard, her mother, is being tried in California. Well,

1656
01:28:05,720 --> 01:28:08,280
Speaker 6: if this guy drove from California to Arizona, wouldn't the

1657
01:28:08,320 --> 01:28:09,800
Speaker 6: planning have happened in California.

1658
01:28:10,040 --> 01:28:11,080
Speaker 3: It's very interesting to me.

1659
01:28:11,520 --> 01:28:13,640
Speaker 2: It's very by the way, so she's a mother of

1660
01:28:13,800 --> 01:28:19,280
Speaker 2: three children that this beautiful woman and wonderful now ex husband.

1661
01:28:19,880 --> 01:28:23,519
Speaker 2: They raised three kids and he allegedly killed their mother

1662
01:28:24,120 --> 01:28:24,839
Speaker 2: through a window.

1663
01:28:25,600 --> 01:28:27,439
Speaker 3: And really is he out on bail?

1664
01:28:27,560 --> 01:28:30,560
Speaker 2: If the bail was five point five million, is he

1665
01:28:30,840 --> 01:28:33,360
Speaker 2: sleeping in his own bed right now? Obviously he should

1666
01:28:33,360 --> 01:28:35,880
Speaker 2: be able to make that money. I would assume, you know,

1667
01:28:36,240 --> 01:28:39,439
Speaker 2: that's a tough one. Yeah, breakups are tough for a boy.

1668
01:28:39,640 --> 01:28:43,680
Speaker 2: Breakups are and nobody's immune. It should never end this way.

1669
01:28:44,640 --> 01:28:48,080
Speaker 2: Cautionary tales, right, But we did fifty two episodes of

1670
01:28:48,160 --> 01:28:51,600
Speaker 2: a podcast called Crazy in Love, and every episode is

1671
01:28:51,680 --> 01:28:55,760
Speaker 2: based on it started beautiful, the wedding was spectacular.

1672
01:28:56,439 --> 01:28:57,040
Speaker 3: Ends in murder.

1673
01:28:58,040 --> 01:29:03,240
Speaker 6: Well, yeah, I mean they're oftentimes murders are passion right, like,

1674
01:29:03,360 --> 01:29:06,200
Speaker 6: it can make you crazy, can make crazy making.

1675
01:29:06,280 --> 01:29:08,599
Speaker 3: And you know what else makes people crazy obviously is money.

1676
01:29:08,840 --> 01:29:13,040
Speaker 2: Money giving money to somebody who's crazy in your mind.

1677
01:29:13,360 --> 01:29:13,519
Speaker 3: You know.

1678
01:29:14,240 --> 01:29:16,760
Speaker 6: The articles and whatnot I read kind of alluded to

1679
01:29:16,800 --> 01:29:19,920
Speaker 6: the fact that there was some kind of financial secret too,

1680
01:29:20,640 --> 01:29:23,680
Speaker 6: like they haven't they haven't said, so this is pure speculation.

1681
01:29:24,200 --> 01:29:29,880
Speaker 3: So maybe she knew something too. Maybe he like financial secret,

1682
01:29:30,520 --> 01:29:31,519
Speaker 3: so maybe she.

1683
01:29:32,280 --> 01:29:35,840
Speaker 4: Was like, you know, yeah, maybe he's getting a lot

1684
01:29:35,920 --> 01:29:37,280
Speaker 4: more money in other ways.

1685
01:29:37,400 --> 01:29:40,280
Speaker 6: Yeah, and or you know, donating to the Ebstein Files

1686
01:29:40,280 --> 01:29:43,519
Speaker 6: where we know I wanted to, but he's a secret

1687
01:29:43,640 --> 01:29:44,720
Speaker 6: m I t donor.

1688
01:29:48,960 --> 01:29:51,080
Speaker 2: That's the list of this week and the Epstein Files

1689
01:29:51,120 --> 01:29:56,439
Speaker 2: to what a tragic case. She was just sleeping and yeah,

1690
01:29:56,479 --> 01:29:58,400
Speaker 2: you know, of course to your point. I shouldn't have

1691
01:29:58,439 --> 01:30:01,840
Speaker 2: made a sweeping generalization. Although thirty thousand dollars a month

1692
01:30:01,920 --> 01:30:05,040
Speaker 2: seems like a lot because it's a relative, right, how

1693
01:30:05,120 --> 01:30:05,879
Speaker 2: am I to say.

1694
01:30:06,479 --> 01:30:09,320
Speaker 6: Well, you know, to me, you might have bills, she

1695
01:30:09,439 --> 01:30:12,240
Speaker 6: might have bills that exceed that, you know, five thousand

1696
01:30:12,240 --> 01:30:15,360
Speaker 6: dollars a month, that's exactly accumulated from her marriage.

1697
01:30:15,680 --> 01:30:18,920
Speaker 8: Tru is tycoon. So true that off the hall, she

1698
01:30:19,040 --> 01:30:21,639
Speaker 8: has to pay to fight this guy in court. Right,

1699
01:30:22,520 --> 01:30:24,439
Speaker 8: but you know he's got a team of lawyers. Right,

1700
01:30:24,680 --> 01:30:25,679
Speaker 8: he's got a ton of money.

1701
01:30:25,880 --> 01:30:28,120
Speaker 4: Oh, he can pay for everything. But I have that

1702
01:30:28,200 --> 01:30:30,880
Speaker 4: same reaction. Sometimes we hear about celebrities like Kevin Costner

1703
01:30:30,920 --> 01:30:33,800
Speaker 4: or someone who's divorcing. The wife is asking for some

1704
01:30:34,320 --> 01:30:36,320
Speaker 4: ridiculous amount, right, I do.

1705
01:30:36,640 --> 01:30:39,320
Speaker 2: But she was sleeping with the friend in the back house.

1706
01:30:41,040 --> 01:30:42,679
Speaker 2: That had to hurt.

1707
01:30:44,040 --> 01:30:44,559
Speaker 4: That's the best.

1708
01:30:44,600 --> 01:30:47,880
Speaker 2: Maybe he was, Yeah, that maybe, But she seems happy now.

1709
01:30:48,880 --> 01:30:50,240
Speaker 3: But it's true.

1710
01:30:50,240 --> 01:30:52,400
Speaker 2: I guess you are marrying, and people can have a

1711
01:30:52,479 --> 01:30:55,599
Speaker 2: successful career in some part because somebody else is raising

1712
01:30:55,680 --> 01:30:57,240
Speaker 2: your family and doing the day to days.

1713
01:30:57,320 --> 01:30:59,880
Speaker 6: Well, like like a doctor, right, Like, let's say it

1714
01:31:00,080 --> 01:31:03,200
Speaker 6: a woman doctor and her husband, you know, isn't working,

1715
01:31:03,320 --> 01:31:07,360
Speaker 6: maybe because he's raising the kids or you know whatever, yeah, whatever,

1716
01:31:08,160 --> 01:31:10,759
Speaker 6: you know, does he not get some of the doctor

1717
01:31:11,520 --> 01:31:14,960
Speaker 6: extraordinary salary if they get divorced because he was part

1718
01:31:15,000 --> 01:31:17,080
Speaker 6: of the reason she was successful to.

1719
01:31:17,160 --> 01:31:18,920
Speaker 3: Run the house and raise run the house.

1720
01:31:19,120 --> 01:31:21,280
Speaker 2: Just ha having this conversation for young people, by the way,

1721
01:31:21,280 --> 01:31:23,640
Speaker 2: I should be giving advice, But it seems like if

1722
01:31:23,680 --> 01:31:26,160
Speaker 2: you're going into a marriage in today's day where it's

1723
01:31:26,360 --> 01:31:28,880
Speaker 2: required that there is a breadwinner of some sort, no

1724
01:31:28,960 --> 01:31:32,320
Speaker 2: matter what side of it you're on, whoever's making the money,

1725
01:31:32,560 --> 01:31:34,920
Speaker 2: if there is a joint decision for somebody to stay

1726
01:31:34,960 --> 01:31:38,120
Speaker 2: home to raise the kids, maybe they get like a

1727
01:31:38,200 --> 01:31:43,160
Speaker 2: salary in fact, like a percentage of this. No, it's

1728
01:31:43,160 --> 01:31:45,519
Speaker 2: a salary. It's a salary to raise these kids because

1729
01:31:45,560 --> 01:31:49,600
Speaker 2: I'm leaving my career to raise my kids. Because guess what,

1730
01:31:49,640 --> 01:31:51,599
Speaker 2: it's really hard to go back to your career if

1731
01:31:51,640 --> 01:31:55,320
Speaker 2: you haven't been in it for nineteen years or eighteen years,

1732
01:31:56,000 --> 01:31:57,800
Speaker 2: and that way, you feel like you have a little

1733
01:31:57,840 --> 01:32:00,800
Speaker 2: bit of your own nest egg and you don't feel

1734
01:32:00,880 --> 01:32:05,400
Speaker 2: like you're being controlled financially by somebody else. And it

1735
01:32:05,560 --> 01:32:10,040
Speaker 2: is a job. And if it's a united decision that hey,

1736
01:32:10,240 --> 01:32:13,400
Speaker 2: I make more money or my career is booming right now,

1737
01:32:13,520 --> 01:32:16,640
Speaker 2: and you know, as a couple prior to marriage or

1738
01:32:16,680 --> 01:32:21,599
Speaker 2: prior to having children, whichever order that happens in, if

1739
01:32:21,640 --> 01:32:25,799
Speaker 2: at all, And maybe that's like an arrangement financially speaking,

1740
01:32:26,040 --> 01:32:28,920
Speaker 2: so that it doesn't become sort of who has what?

1741
01:32:29,160 --> 01:32:29,479
Speaker 2: I don't know.

1742
01:32:29,560 --> 01:32:34,120
Speaker 3: It's tough, it's so hard, but it.

1743
01:32:34,160 --> 01:32:36,720
Speaker 4: Feels like to what body said, it feels allowancy. It

1744
01:32:36,760 --> 01:32:39,000
Speaker 4: feels like now that person has even more control.

1745
01:32:39,280 --> 01:32:41,080
Speaker 2: Well, no, you get to put it in your bank account.

1746
01:32:41,080 --> 01:32:42,960
Speaker 2: It's your money. So if you need to make a

1747
01:32:43,040 --> 01:32:45,599
Speaker 2: change of planes, you still have money in your bank

1748
01:32:45,640 --> 01:32:50,080
Speaker 2: and you're don't go. You're not trapped, Okay, if you

1749
01:32:50,200 --> 01:32:53,040
Speaker 2: need to, you know, get your own new life because

1750
01:32:53,080 --> 01:32:56,800
Speaker 2: this isn't working for you anymore, at least your financial Yeah,

1751
01:32:56,840 --> 01:32:57,599
Speaker 2: you're not stuck.

1752
01:32:58,680 --> 01:33:01,400
Speaker 3: That's happening. You have something sense.

1753
01:33:01,680 --> 01:33:03,599
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's like and it is a lot of work.

1754
01:33:03,840 --> 01:33:07,479
Speaker 2: You know, for somebody male or female, to to not

1755
01:33:07,680 --> 01:33:10,120
Speaker 2: to take a break from your career for eighteen years

1756
01:33:10,240 --> 01:33:13,479
Speaker 2: to raise a family is pretty intense. Or if it's

1757
01:33:13,640 --> 01:33:16,160
Speaker 2: a two parter and two fam why am I dueling

1758
01:33:16,200 --> 01:33:16,880
Speaker 2: that advice? Right now.

1759
01:33:16,920 --> 01:33:18,600
Speaker 3: This I am the last person to do this.

1760
01:33:18,880 --> 01:33:19,599
Speaker 4: There's something there.

1761
01:33:19,880 --> 01:33:22,800
Speaker 2: There is just something about the pregame of thinking about

1762
01:33:22,960 --> 01:33:26,240
Speaker 2: finances prior because.

1763
01:33:25,920 --> 01:33:26,680
Speaker 3: It's like a pre nup.

1764
01:33:27,080 --> 01:33:29,680
Speaker 6: Nobody wants to talk about it prior to getting into

1765
01:33:29,800 --> 01:33:32,639
Speaker 6: a marriage, Like you don't want to predict that you're

1766
01:33:32,680 --> 01:33:33,200
Speaker 6: going to split.

1767
01:33:33,360 --> 01:33:35,400
Speaker 3: You know, it's like bad luck, right right, it's just.

1768
01:33:35,520 --> 01:33:37,400
Speaker 2: Math, Yeah it is.

1769
01:33:37,560 --> 01:33:40,600
Speaker 3: But you know you're you're doing that in the contingent

1770
01:33:40,800 --> 01:33:42,480
Speaker 3: that you're exactly.

1771
01:33:43,000 --> 01:33:45,480
Speaker 2: To avoid the gunshot through the window.

1772
01:33:45,680 --> 01:33:48,960
Speaker 3: Well exactly right when when cooler heads prevail.

1773
01:33:49,560 --> 01:33:53,320
Speaker 7: Correct, That's that's I think that's what's you know, helpful

1774
01:33:53,360 --> 01:33:55,439
Speaker 7: about prenups or post nups or anything.

1775
01:33:55,840 --> 01:33:58,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, if anybody has any big advice on that, I

1776
01:33:58,240 --> 01:33:59,160
Speaker 2: think we're all ears.

1777
01:33:59,439 --> 01:34:04,920
Speaker 3: Baby. Well listen, we'll be following that. We'll be following that. Listen.

1778
01:34:05,000 --> 01:34:07,400
Speaker 2: So much more to come tomorrow, because body, what do

1779
01:34:07,479 --> 01:34:08,479
Speaker 2: we have coming up tomorrow?

1780
01:34:09,040 --> 01:34:11,200
Speaker 6: Right, We're going to talk about the Columbus murder again,

1781
01:34:11,360 --> 01:34:12,880
Speaker 6: and you know what, we're going to dig into some

1782
01:34:12,960 --> 01:34:14,040
Speaker 6: of those Epstein photos.

1783
01:34:14,200 --> 01:34:18,960
Speaker 3: But yeah, let's do yes for sure, for sure and listen.

1784
01:34:19,080 --> 01:34:20,559
Speaker 3: We have loved your talkbacks.

1785
01:34:20,600 --> 01:34:22,880
Speaker 2: Thank you for the call. Stay safe out there. We'll

1786
01:34:22,960 --> 01:34:23,799
Speaker 2: talk to you tomorrow.