WEBVTT - Trump Week 1 & SCOTUS on Traffic Stop Killing 0:00:02.759 --> 0:00:07.000 This is Bloomberg Law with June Grossel from Bloomberg Radio. 0:00:08.840 --> 0:00:13.360 All illegal entry will immediately be halted, and we will 0:00:13.400 --> 0:00:17.720 begin the process of returning millions and millions of criminal 0:00:17.760 --> 0:00:20.840 aliens back to the places from which they came. 0:00:21.440 --> 0:00:25.800 Just hours after taking office, President Donald Trump signed a 0:00:25.840 --> 0:00:30.240 flood of executive orders on immigration, ranging from declaring a 0:00:30.360 --> 0:00:34.360 national emergency at the southern border and barring asylum to 0:00:34.520 --> 0:00:40.919 fast tracking deportations of undocumented immigrants and cutting off birthright citizenship, 0:00:41.120 --> 0:00:43.400 a right he's long railed against. 0:00:43.720 --> 0:00:45.960 Where a person comes in, has a baby, and the 0:00:46.000 --> 0:00:48.559 baby is essentially a citizen of the United States for 0:00:48.600 --> 0:00:51.720 eighty five years, with all of those benefits. It's ridiculous. 0:00:51.800 --> 0:00:53.880 It's ridiculous, and it has to end. 0:00:54.120 --> 0:00:58.040 The ink was barely dry on the executive orders before 0:00:58.160 --> 0:01:01.720 attorneys general from twenty two New states sued to block 0:01:01.800 --> 0:01:05.680 the order ending birthright citizenship, saying it was a guarantee 0:01:05.760 --> 0:01:09.399 enshrined in the fourteenth Amendment that children born in the 0:01:09.480 --> 0:01:12.400 United States are US citizens. 0:01:12.200 --> 0:01:15.240 And this executive order is an assault on the rule 0:01:15.240 --> 0:01:19.039 of law. It attacks a right that is core to 0:01:19.120 --> 0:01:24.720 our nation's earliest days. President has overstepped his authority by 0:01:24.880 --> 0:01:25.360 a mile. 0:01:26.040 --> 0:01:28.880 Joining me is Leon Fresco, a partner at Hollanda Knight. 0:01:29.000 --> 0:01:31.520 He was the head of the Office of Immigration Litigation 0:01:31.760 --> 0:01:35.480 during the Obama administration. Leon, the first federal judge to 0:01:35.560 --> 0:01:39.959 consider one of Trump's executive orders, blocked it, ruling from 0:01:40.000 --> 0:01:43.920 the bench after a short hearing. Judge John Kunauer said 0:01:44.000 --> 0:01:47.320 in his four decades on the bench he'd never seen 0:01:47.480 --> 0:01:52.320 such a clear case of a blatantly unconstitutional order as 0:01:52.400 --> 0:01:54.520 that ending birthright citizenship. 0:01:54.720 --> 0:01:59.520 Explain why, well, there are two reasons. One, the case 0:01:59.640 --> 0:02:02.320 law that's interpreted this for the last one hundred and 0:02:02.360 --> 0:02:05.840 fifty years has said that any individual born in the 0:02:05.960 --> 0:02:10.000 United States has merthright citizenship. This comes from a long 0:02:10.080 --> 0:02:14.239 lineage of Chinese Exclusion Act cases, where in the eighteen 0:02:14.320 --> 0:02:18.320 hundred they tried to exclude new Chinese individuals from entering, 0:02:18.720 --> 0:02:22.560 then they tried to deport Chinese non citizens, and finally 0:02:22.639 --> 0:02:26.359 they tried to deport children of Chinese non citizens who 0:02:26.360 --> 0:02:30.240 had been born in the United States. And those cases 0:02:30.280 --> 0:02:33.200 held you couldn't deport those children because those children were 0:02:33.320 --> 0:02:36.880 United States citizens, because they were born in the United States. 0:02:36.919 --> 0:02:40.520 And it's also noteworthy that all of these arguments about 0:02:40.520 --> 0:02:44.200 immigration are irrelevant because the Fourteenth Amended came out at 0:02:44.200 --> 0:02:47.240 a time where there were no immigration laws, and so 0:02:47.520 --> 0:02:50.000 at that time it was just assumed, because that was 0:02:50.040 --> 0:02:53.040 the law from England, that if you were born in 0:02:53.120 --> 0:02:55.720 the land, you were a citizen of that land. And 0:02:55.840 --> 0:03:01.120 so there's nothing that tracks this to allow this concept 0:03:01.120 --> 0:03:03.520 of saying that someone who is born in the United 0:03:03.560 --> 0:03:07.120 States isn't a citizen and this concept of well, but 0:03:07.240 --> 0:03:10.520 you're outside the jurisdiction of the United States. Well, if 0:03:10.520 --> 0:03:12.880 that's true, then, as the judge pointed out that there 0:03:12.960 --> 0:03:15.640 was not really a good answer from the Department of Justice, 0:03:15.680 --> 0:03:18.440 are you saying that these individuals can then commit any 0:03:18.480 --> 0:03:21.600 crimes that they want and they be fine because there's 0:03:21.760 --> 0:03:25.480 outside the jurisdiction of the United States? And they said no, 0:03:25.600 --> 0:03:28.160 But then how does that work. You're either subject to 0:03:28.200 --> 0:03:31.720 the jurisdiction or you're not. You can't have that both ways. 0:03:31.840 --> 0:03:34.000 And I think you're going to see that happen in 0:03:34.080 --> 0:03:36.880 many courts, even in the Supreme Court. 0:03:37.120 --> 0:03:41.120 The judge gave the Trump Justice Department lawyers sort of 0:03:41.120 --> 0:03:46.119 a legal beatdown, criticizing their lawyering. Quote, it just boggles 0:03:46.160 --> 0:03:50.120 my mind that any lawyer could argue birthright citizenship is 0:03:50.240 --> 0:03:55.640 unconstitutional and scolding the Department of Justice for even entertaining 0:03:56.280 --> 0:03:56.960 the idea. 0:03:57.880 --> 0:04:02.120 The question, I think which will be interesting will be, 0:04:02.120 --> 0:04:06.280 because the judge was hinting at this, could lawyers that 0:04:06.320 --> 0:04:11.280 were involved in either crafting such an argument or the 0:04:11.400 --> 0:04:16.320 executive order themselves, or even arguing these cases? Could those 0:04:16.400 --> 0:04:20.040 lawyers face potential penalties. I'm not going to voice any 0:04:20.040 --> 0:04:24.640 opinion on that, but the judge certainly started talking about 0:04:24.680 --> 0:04:27.279 where are the lawyers here to say that this shouldn't 0:04:27.320 --> 0:04:30.040 be something that would be done, So I think that's 0:04:30.040 --> 0:04:32.880 an interesting issue potentially to monitor. 0:04:33.279 --> 0:04:36.320 It's expected that the case will be appealed all the 0:04:36.360 --> 0:04:39.599 way to the Supreme Court. The only time the Supreme 0:04:39.640 --> 0:04:43.600 Court ruled on this issue was back in eighteen ninety eight, 0:04:43.720 --> 0:04:46.600 when it found that a baby born in San Francisco 0:04:46.680 --> 0:04:50.680 to Chinese immigrants was a US citizen. Do you have 0:04:50.720 --> 0:04:54.520 any reason to believe that the justices today, even as 0:04:54.600 --> 0:04:58.400 conservative as they are, would overrule that precedent. 0:04:58.960 --> 0:05:02.800 I think if you take textualist view, it still supports 0:05:02.839 --> 0:05:05.000 birthrights that is in chip in the United States. If 0:05:05.000 --> 0:05:08.440 you take a historical view, which is another thing conservatives do. 0:05:08.920 --> 0:05:11.839 It still supports birthrights. It is in chip in the 0:05:11.920 --> 0:05:16.000 United States, And again, unless the Department of Justice can 0:05:16.160 --> 0:05:19.280 square the circle and come up with a way in 0:05:19.320 --> 0:05:22.520 which you can be subject to the jurisdiction of the 0:05:22.600 --> 0:05:25.719 United States for criminal laws, but not subject to the 0:05:25.800 --> 0:05:29.440 jurisdiction of the United States for citizenship purposes. How those 0:05:29.480 --> 0:05:32.800 two sets of concepts can mean different things when you're 0:05:32.880 --> 0:05:36.280 using the exact same set of words. That's going to 0:05:36.320 --> 0:05:38.480 be the biggest challenge. I don't know how you can 0:05:38.520 --> 0:05:41.760 do that, and that's what creates the fatal problem in 0:05:41.800 --> 0:05:42.320 their case. 0:05:42.800 --> 0:05:46.680 Let's turn out to one of Trump's signature campaign promises, 0:05:47.360 --> 0:05:48.000 and it'll be. 0:05:47.960 --> 0:05:50.640 The largest deportation in the history of our country, and 0:05:50.720 --> 0:05:51.200 we have no. 0:05:52.680 --> 0:05:53.160 Choice. 0:05:53.360 --> 0:05:56.560 But we're not seeing the mass raids and deportations that 0:05:56.640 --> 0:05:58.200 were sort of advertised. 0:05:58.720 --> 0:06:04.600 Well, they are publicizing what I would say routine operations 0:06:04.600 --> 0:06:08.279 of ICE have historically been with a little bit of 0:06:08.320 --> 0:06:11.840 extra emphasis. So I would say that there are greater 0:06:12.000 --> 0:06:15.479 numbers of arrests and apprehensions than we're being done under 0:06:15.520 --> 0:06:18.360 the Biden administration. But what they are doing is they're 0:06:18.400 --> 0:06:22.400 really trying to publicize that to create the sense of 0:06:23.000 --> 0:06:25.160 this is going to be an environment of a large 0:06:25.200 --> 0:06:29.960 immigration enforcement posture, So individuals really need to be careful 0:06:30.000 --> 0:06:33.520 and look into this and maybe leave on their own 0:06:33.600 --> 0:06:36.400 so that you don't feel like you might get involved 0:06:36.440 --> 0:06:39.640 in one of these operations. Now, the one interesting announcement 0:06:39.800 --> 0:06:42.880 that really is going to be impactful is the Biden 0:06:42.880 --> 0:06:46.000 administration led in a lot of people under what it's 0:06:46.040 --> 0:06:51.160 called parole. And parole is a status that's very different 0:06:51.160 --> 0:06:54.200 in immigration law than any other status because it's a 0:06:54.240 --> 0:06:56.840 status that can both be freely given, but it's also 0:06:56.920 --> 0:07:01.000 a status that can be freely revoked. And so there 0:07:01.080 --> 0:07:03.800 was a MAMMO that was issued by the Acting Secretary 0:07:03.800 --> 0:07:06.120 of Homeland Security that said, look, if you have a 0:07:06.160 --> 0:07:09.320 reason to revoke someone's parole, just do it and put 0:07:09.320 --> 0:07:13.240 them in expedited removal. And the point is unless those 0:07:13.240 --> 0:07:16.880 individuals then asked for asylum. That is a large group 0:07:16.880 --> 0:07:19.240 of people, almost a million people that came in under 0:07:19.280 --> 0:07:23.160 paroles of the Divide administration that they could decide we're 0:07:23.160 --> 0:07:25.880 going to use this group as low hanging fruit and 0:07:25.960 --> 0:07:28.720 we're just going to start going to their homes and 0:07:28.840 --> 0:07:33.240 revoking their paroles and giving them expedited removal orders sending 0:07:33.320 --> 0:07:35.960 them out of the United States. That's going to be 0:07:36.000 --> 0:07:39.480 a very interesting group to monitor if that actually will 0:07:39.520 --> 0:07:42.600 be done or not, because those people would have entered 0:07:42.640 --> 0:07:44.600 with the permission of the United States. 0:07:44.840 --> 0:07:48.240 Welle On. The ACLU filed a suit this week to 0:07:48.400 --> 0:07:53.600 stop Trump's expansion of this expedited removal process to immigrants 0:07:53.640 --> 0:07:56.320 who can't prove they've been living in the United States 0:07:56.360 --> 0:07:58.680 continuously for two years. 0:07:58.880 --> 0:08:01.400 Yes, So what happens is whenever there's any change to 0:08:01.440 --> 0:08:05.080 the expedited removal process, you have to file a lawsuit 0:08:05.200 --> 0:08:08.360 in the districts of Columbia. So the ACLU is saying, look, 0:08:08.400 --> 0:08:13.560 we're gonna challenge the authority for the Trump administration to 0:08:13.640 --> 0:08:17.800 so quickly move without the regulatory process from the fourteen 0:08:17.920 --> 0:08:21.600 day limit on expedited removal that the Biden administration had 0:08:22.040 --> 0:08:26.440 to the two year limit on expedited removal that the 0:08:26.600 --> 0:08:29.480 Trump administration wants to put in, which is the maximum 0:08:29.520 --> 0:08:33.960 statutory time period permitted previously. I would say that the 0:08:34.000 --> 0:08:36.920 ACLU would have had a very good argument from the 0:08:36.960 --> 0:08:39.000 standpoint of, look, this is a mess. How do you 0:08:39.080 --> 0:08:41.280 find out if someone's been here a year and a 0:08:41.320 --> 0:08:43.880 half versus two years and a half. This is going 0:08:43.960 --> 0:08:46.640 to be so complicated if they've crossed the border, et cetera. 0:08:46.880 --> 0:08:51.080 But in this parole example, where you actually know with 0:08:51.200 --> 0:08:55.760 one hundred percent certainty when someone arrives in the United States, 0:08:55.920 --> 0:09:00.360 there actually is some justification from the Trump administration if 0:09:00.360 --> 0:09:02.240 they want to go down this route, which of course 0:09:02.520 --> 0:09:07.719 will create its own complexities, both moral and operational. But nevertheless, 0:09:07.720 --> 0:09:09.559 if they want to go down the route of revoking 0:09:09.600 --> 0:09:12.600 the paroles that were given by the Biden administration, then 0:09:12.640 --> 0:09:15.720 they will know this person was here less than two years. 0:09:16.080 --> 0:09:18.959 We can give them an expedited removal order. We wouldn't 0:09:18.960 --> 0:09:21.520 be breaking any laws, and we should be allowed to 0:09:21.559 --> 0:09:24.120 do this because we disagree that these paroles ever should 0:09:24.120 --> 0:09:26.480 have been given in the first place, and so we 0:09:26.520 --> 0:09:28.840 believe that there's a set of people that are in 0:09:28.880 --> 0:09:30.880 this country that should never have been allowed in here. 0:09:31.160 --> 0:09:33.800 And I do think that argument, even if it doesn't 0:09:33.800 --> 0:09:37.920 get initial sympathy in either the District Court or the 0:09:38.280 --> 0:09:42.040 DC Circuit, could see a level of sympathy in the 0:09:42.080 --> 0:09:44.720 Supreme Court. And so I think that one is going 0:09:44.760 --> 0:09:47.160 to be an interesting case to watch because even if 0:09:47.240 --> 0:09:49.400 there's a victory in the lower court, which is by 0:09:49.440 --> 0:09:52.520 no means guaranteed. I think that one is going to 0:09:52.600 --> 0:09:55.480 be interesting to monitor all the way through the Supreme Court. 0:09:56.040 --> 0:09:59.720 It's been expected that they're going to have some raids 0:09:59.720 --> 0:10:04.320 and sanctuary cities, and the Justice Department has ordered federal 0:10:04.360 --> 0:10:08.920 prosecutors to investigate state or local officials they believe are 0:10:09.000 --> 0:10:12.880 interfering with the crackdown on immigration, saying they could face 0:10:12.960 --> 0:10:18.120 criminal charges. There's no precedent for prosecuting state or local 0:10:18.160 --> 0:10:23.440 officials who resist federal immigration enforcement. I mean, what would 0:10:23.440 --> 0:10:24.120 the charge be. 0:10:25.120 --> 0:10:28.840 So there's one interesting case which isn't exactly like that, 0:10:28.920 --> 0:10:30.520 but I don't know if you recall it. June from 0:10:30.520 --> 0:10:33.400 a while back, there was a judge in Massachusetts. There 0:10:33.440 --> 0:10:36.480 was a state court judge, and I believe she told 0:10:36.640 --> 0:10:39.400 someone in the illegal status, hey, ices in the courthouse, 0:10:39.520 --> 0:10:43.480 use my back door and go outside the back entrance 0:10:43.520 --> 0:10:46.080 of the court so that they won't apprehend you. And 0:10:46.280 --> 0:10:49.320 Ice during the Trump administration did prosecute that judge, and 0:10:49.320 --> 0:10:53.000 then the Biden administration ended up rescinding that prosecution. I 0:10:53.000 --> 0:10:54.640 don't know if you remember that, bac Pas. 0:10:54.840 --> 0:10:55.000 I do. 0:10:55.360 --> 0:10:58.560 I do, But that's the kind of thing they're talking about, 0:10:58.679 --> 0:11:01.320 which is there's a lot If you are a state 0:11:01.400 --> 0:11:05.240 or local official and you have a law that says 0:11:05.320 --> 0:11:08.520 you're not allowed to share certain information with ice, then 0:11:08.640 --> 0:11:12.640 you can't be prosecuted for following that law. But that's 0:11:12.720 --> 0:11:16.240 different than if you are quote unquote harboring or concealing 0:11:16.320 --> 0:11:19.600 under eight USC. Thirteen twenty four. And that would mean 0:11:19.720 --> 0:11:21.680 let's say they show up at a library or a 0:11:21.720 --> 0:11:24.600 school or something, and you're a local official. There's one 0:11:24.640 --> 0:11:26.760 thing about saying, look, I can't help you. I don't 0:11:26.760 --> 0:11:28.640 know what you want me to say. The state laws 0:11:28.679 --> 0:11:31.560 prohibit me from helping you. That's one thing that's not 0:11:31.600 --> 0:11:34.560 going to be harboring or concealment. But if what you 0:11:34.679 --> 0:11:37.120 say is I can't help you, and then at the 0:11:37.120 --> 0:11:39.640 same time you're typing a text, Hey, get all these 0:11:39.640 --> 0:11:42.520 people out of here, have them use the rear entrance, 0:11:43.120 --> 0:11:46.800 then that could be harboring and concealing. And so those 0:11:46.840 --> 0:11:48.720 are the examples that they're going to be trying to 0:11:48.760 --> 0:11:52.280 look for to try to have prosecutions for a. 0:11:52.200 --> 0:11:55.840 Group of eleven Attorneys general are already pushing back on 0:11:56.000 --> 0:11:59.920 that order. Stettying a nineteen ninety seven Supreme Court case 0:12:00.520 --> 0:12:04.120 that said the federal government can't force state officials to 0:12:04.320 --> 0:12:08.040 enforce federal programs under the tenth Amendment. So we shall 0:12:08.080 --> 0:12:11.160 see where that goes. Stay with me, Leon. Coming up, 0:12:11.200 --> 0:12:14.840 we'll discuss the line military troops at the southern border 0:12:15.040 --> 0:12:18.719 can't cross. I'm June Gross. When you're listening to Bloomberg. 0:12:18.960 --> 0:12:22.960 I will declare a national emergency at our southern border. 0:12:23.320 --> 0:12:27.319 This week. After declaring a national emergency at the Southern border, 0:12:27.640 --> 0:12:32.200 President Donald Trump sent fifteen hundred active duty military to 0:12:32.240 --> 0:12:38.320 the border indefinitely suspended asylum, lifted longtime rules restricting ice 0:12:38.440 --> 0:12:43.319 raids near schools and churches, cut off the refugee resettlement program, 0:12:43.400 --> 0:12:47.920 and expanded fast track deportations. A number of lawsuits have 0:12:48.160 --> 0:12:51.640 already been filed over these actions, and more are likely 0:12:51.720 --> 0:12:55.360 to come. I've been talking to immigration law expert Leon Fresco, 0:12:55.559 --> 0:12:58.680 a partner at Hollanda Knight. Leon officials say that the 0:12:58.720 --> 0:13:02.400 troops at the southern border will fly helicopters to assist 0:13:02.480 --> 0:13:06.319 border patrol agents and help in the construction of barriers, 0:13:06.640 --> 0:13:09.200 and that there's no plan for them to be used 0:13:09.240 --> 0:13:13.040 for law enforcement. Explain why things would change if the 0:13:13.040 --> 0:13:16.080 military were used for law enforcement at the border. 0:13:16.520 --> 0:13:19.600 So there is this very long held principle called posse 0:13:19.760 --> 0:13:24.160 cometadis which says that the military is prohibited from being 0:13:24.200 --> 0:13:28.160 engaged inside the United States for law enforcement purposes. So 0:13:28.240 --> 0:13:31.400 that's not permitted under the Posse Commetadas Act. And so 0:13:31.520 --> 0:13:34.800 what creates the problem there is then, well what can 0:13:34.960 --> 0:13:38.400 the military actually do on the border. And this continues 0:13:38.400 --> 0:13:40.839 to come up, whether it's the National Guard or the military, 0:13:41.240 --> 0:13:44.000 and the traditional answer has been, well, they can observe 0:13:44.240 --> 0:13:47.520 people crossing. They can then report that to the domestic 0:13:47.559 --> 0:13:50.760 military officials, which in this case would be CBP and ICE, 0:13:51.160 --> 0:13:53.080 and then CBP and ICE can come pick them up. 0:13:53.120 --> 0:13:55.840 But also, in addition, they can just look very scary, 0:13:56.160 --> 0:13:58.440 and so you would have all these military folks with 0:13:58.559 --> 0:14:03.080 machine guns and helmets and tanks on the border. This 0:14:03.240 --> 0:14:06.760 potentially could lead to a view, hey, it's very scary 0:14:06.800 --> 0:14:09.080 for me to cross, Let me not do that, And 0:14:09.080 --> 0:14:12.360 that certainly would be a deterrent for most people, I believe, 0:14:12.440 --> 0:14:14.600 But you know, if some people then start to get 0:14:14.600 --> 0:14:16.679 the message, hey, if those people aren't actually going to 0:14:16.760 --> 0:14:19.720 do anything, you can still cross, and let's say, ask 0:14:19.800 --> 0:14:23.360 for asylum. Then that's not going to be a deterrent 0:14:23.440 --> 0:14:25.480 in the long run. Now, there's other things that the 0:14:25.520 --> 0:14:28.520 Trump administration is trying to do to prevent people from 0:14:28.560 --> 0:14:31.720 actually staying and asking for asylum, such as remain in 0:14:31.760 --> 0:14:35.160 Mexico and the various asylum bands that they've also put 0:14:35.160 --> 0:14:38.520 in this week. But those two are going to be litigated, 0:14:38.640 --> 0:14:41.040 and so we're going to be in a very interesting posture. 0:14:41.400 --> 0:14:43.240 I do think in the short term you're going to 0:14:43.320 --> 0:14:46.960 see a significant decrease in mortar crossings. But the question 0:14:47.080 --> 0:14:49.560 is in the long term, two years from now, what 0:14:49.640 --> 0:14:52.760 kind of conversation are we having if all of these 0:14:52.800 --> 0:14:57.360 measures have been revoked as unlawful and now we're back 0:14:57.440 --> 0:14:59.960 to the Congress to have to change the environment. 0:15:00.520 --> 0:15:04.600 So Trump also directed through executive order that the incoming 0:15:04.680 --> 0:15:08.560 Secretary of Defense and Homeland Security chief report back within 0:15:08.680 --> 0:15:12.160 ninety days if they think an eighteen oh seven law 0:15:12.240 --> 0:15:15.560 called the Insurrection Act should be invoked so that the 0:15:15.600 --> 0:15:18.040 military could do law enforcement at the border. 0:15:18.320 --> 0:15:20.480 Well. Yeah, so the point is if they think that 0:15:20.560 --> 0:15:26.360 there are actual invasions happening by people of a country. Now, 0:15:26.440 --> 0:15:29.520 ideally you would do this in a congressional declaration of war. 0:15:29.680 --> 0:15:32.240 That's when you usually have this in vote. But if 0:15:32.280 --> 0:15:36.160 you don't have a declaration of war, which is not 0:15:36.240 --> 0:15:40.280 required under the statue, but it's easier to justify, then 0:15:40.320 --> 0:15:43.440 what you have to say still is that countries such 0:15:43.440 --> 0:15:45.440 as Venezuela. I don't think they're going to say it 0:15:45.440 --> 0:15:48.440 for El Savador because the leader of Al Sabador is 0:15:48.480 --> 0:15:52.920 actually quite friendly with many conservatives. Although Trump has criticized him, 0:15:53.040 --> 0:15:56.840 many Conservatives adore the leader of El Savador, So they 0:15:56.880 --> 0:16:01.000 may just say it for Venezuela that Venezuela is actually 0:16:01.120 --> 0:16:05.400 authorizing an incursion of dangerous people into the United States 0:16:05.440 --> 0:16:08.880 for the purposes of destabilizing the United States. And if 0:16:08.920 --> 0:16:11.120 they make that argument, then they can say, if you're 0:16:11.160 --> 0:16:14.360 identified as one of those dangerous people, all we have 0:16:14.440 --> 0:16:16.600 to do is just find you and take your body out. 0:16:16.680 --> 0:16:18.880 We don't have to put you in any court under 0:16:19.160 --> 0:16:21.880 the Alien Enemies Act. And so that's going to be 0:16:22.200 --> 0:16:26.800 very interesting to see which groups they actually designate for that. 0:16:27.040 --> 0:16:30.359 I would be very shocked if MS thirteen and Alsavador 0:16:30.760 --> 0:16:34.040 gets invoked for that, because it would require an implicit 0:16:34.560 --> 0:16:38.240 message that the Alsavador government is actually trying to send 0:16:38.400 --> 0:16:41.320 these people to the US for the purposes of destabilizing 0:16:41.320 --> 0:16:43.800 the US, which, by the way, Trump has said, But 0:16:44.040 --> 0:16:47.200 I do think that would be very unpopular in the 0:16:47.240 --> 0:16:50.680 conservative movement to criticize the president of El Salvador. 0:16:50.320 --> 0:16:50.920 In this way. 0:16:51.360 --> 0:16:54.160 But Venezuela will be the most likely to watch. 0:16:54.080 --> 0:16:58.760 Leon Trump suspended asylum indefinitely. And that's been a part 0:16:58.760 --> 0:17:02.760 of US law since nineteen eighty Have losses been filed 0:17:02.800 --> 0:17:03.760 over that. 0:17:03.760 --> 0:17:07.120 That one already exists. It's already against the Biden administration, 0:17:07.240 --> 0:17:09.719 and it's just being amended in DC to add that. 0:17:10.119 --> 0:17:12.679 So they actually had that, They already had a debate. 0:17:13.000 --> 0:17:17.600 So there's a lawsuit on the summer Biden asylum restrictions. 0:17:18.000 --> 0:17:21.440 Then when Trump shut down the CDP one app, which 0:17:21.520 --> 0:17:24.240 is the app that you would use to then legally 0:17:24.280 --> 0:17:27.760 come to the port of entry, the ACLU came in 0:17:27.840 --> 0:17:30.879 and said, hey, I need to change this lawsuit to 0:17:31.000 --> 0:17:33.880 include the ending of the CBP one app because now 0:17:34.160 --> 0:17:37.240 the defense that the Biden administration had, which is there 0:17:37.280 --> 0:17:39.080 is no asylum ben you just have to go to 0:17:39.119 --> 0:17:41.480 the port of entry and use the CBP one app, 0:17:41.720 --> 0:17:44.560 that defense is gone. The judge said, look, I'm not 0:17:44.560 --> 0:17:47.080 going to require them to turn back on the CBP 0:17:47.200 --> 0:17:50.320 one app If there's a specific case or two that 0:17:50.400 --> 0:17:52.800 you want to bring to my attention, we might be 0:17:52.880 --> 0:17:56.479 able to get those people their appointments, but to just 0:17:56.480 --> 0:17:59.800 turn it on for an indefinite period, he didn't sem 0:17:59.840 --> 0:18:02.320 to to interest it in that outcome. Now he didn't 0:18:02.320 --> 0:18:05.320 do a final ruling, but still the determination about whether 0:18:05.359 --> 0:18:09.159 the asylum ban first one, the Biden one now plus 0:18:09.200 --> 0:18:12.640 the Trump one, whether that ban is gonna be permitted, 0:18:12.720 --> 0:18:15.080 we still don't know. So now that's all going to 0:18:15.119 --> 0:18:19.480 be analyzed as to what is the current ban, and 0:18:19.920 --> 0:18:21.920 then we're going to get a decision on that. Again, 0:18:22.000 --> 0:18:24.080 if I think this was an AI judge or a 0:18:24.119 --> 0:18:27.760 machine judge, they'd probably say that you can't just ban 0:18:27.880 --> 0:18:31.000 asylum completely on the border like this. The Congress would 0:18:31.000 --> 0:18:33.160 have to change the laws to do it. But we'll 0:18:33.160 --> 0:18:34.080 wait and see what the. 0:18:34.040 --> 0:18:36.680 Outcome is, and we'll certainly be waiting for a lot 0:18:36.720 --> 0:18:40.280 of decisions on the immigration scene. So it's a pleasure 0:18:40.320 --> 0:18:43.080 to have you on, Leon, Thanks so much. That's Leon 0:18:43.160 --> 0:18:45.560 Fresco of Holland and Knight, mister. 0:18:45.400 --> 0:18:48.320 Chief Justice, and may it please the Court, we're here 0:18:48.320 --> 0:18:51.560 today because Ashton Barnes was shot and killed on the 0:18:51.600 --> 0:18:54.520 side of a Texas highway after being pulled over for 0:18:54.640 --> 0:18:59.399 unpaid tolls. The question before this court is how to 0:18:59.480 --> 0:19:02.800 determine whether Astron's Fourth Amendment rights were violated. 0:19:03.320 --> 0:19:07.359 In April of twenty sixteen, a Houston police officer shot 0:19:07.400 --> 0:19:11.520 an unarmed black man twice during a routine traffic stop 0:19:11.640 --> 0:19:16.240 over unpaid tolls. Lower courts had dismissed the excessive force 0:19:16.359 --> 0:19:20.199 lawsuit filed against the officer by the victim's mother, but 0:19:20.320 --> 0:19:23.359 the Supreme Court took another look at the case this week, 0:19:23.560 --> 0:19:27.840 and justice is across the ideological spectrum appeared to agree 0:19:27.880 --> 0:19:31.119 that the analysis by the lower courts focusing on the 0:19:31.200 --> 0:19:35.560 two seconds prior to the officer shooting was wrong. Here 0:19:35.600 --> 0:19:38.240 are Justices Elena Kagan and Neil Gorsuch. 0:19:38.920 --> 0:19:41.960 We have two opinions below, actually both the Circuit Court 0:19:42.040 --> 0:19:45.880 and the District Court, who expressed a desire to look 0:19:45.960 --> 0:19:50.000 beyond two seconds, but said, we can only look at 0:19:50.040 --> 0:19:51.360 the prior two seconds. 0:19:52.680 --> 0:19:55.120 If the only thing we're concerned with is this tut 0:19:55.400 --> 0:19:59.640 this two second rule, whether it's there or not, Mister McLeod, 0:20:00.520 --> 0:20:03.040 and we just clarify that as not the law, and. 0:20:03.000 --> 0:20:06.520 There seemed to be a consensus that courts must consider 0:20:06.720 --> 0:20:10.920 the totality of the circumstances when determining whether an officer 0:20:11.119 --> 0:20:15.720 used excessive force. Here's Justice amy Cony Barrett questioning the 0:20:15.800 --> 0:20:17.480 lawyer for the victim's mother. 0:20:17.640 --> 0:20:20.159 If we said moment of the threat is wrong, and 0:20:20.200 --> 0:20:24.760 we don't articulate a precise standard other than saying our 0:20:24.800 --> 0:20:27.719 regular totality of the circumstances test supplies as just as 0:20:27.720 --> 0:20:30.880 Sotomayor said, that's really what you're asking for. 0:20:31.160 --> 0:20:36.560 Although Justice Brett Kavanaugh repeatedly expressed concerns about the implications 0:20:36.600 --> 0:20:41.080 of such a decision on police officers making traffic stops. 0:20:41.320 --> 0:20:44.000 An officer does not get the time we've spent here 0:20:44.000 --> 0:20:47.280 today to make the decision. Do I let it go 0:20:48.280 --> 0:20:50.920 knowing that this person could do serious harm or has 0:20:51.000 --> 0:20:53.320 done and we'll never catch the person, or do I 0:20:53.400 --> 0:20:54.879 jump on the car and they have to make that 0:20:54.960 --> 0:20:57.240 decision in about what do you tell them? 0:20:57.440 --> 0:21:00.760 Joining me is former federal Prosecutor George U. House of 0:21:00.880 --> 0:21:05.160 Richard's Carrington. George, tell us what happened during this routine 0:21:05.160 --> 0:21:05.960 traffic stop. 0:21:06.160 --> 0:21:08.600 So the case is focused on a shooting by a 0:21:08.640 --> 0:21:13.159 Houston police officer not named Felix of Ashton Barnes, a 0:21:13.240 --> 0:21:16.399 young man in April of twenty sixteen. The plaintiff is 0:21:16.440 --> 0:21:19.040 his mother, who is suing the officer for using an 0:21:19.040 --> 0:21:22.640 excessive force and violation of the Fourth Amendment arising from 0:21:22.640 --> 0:21:25.720 the killing. The question in this case is did the 0:21:25.720 --> 0:21:29.520 police officer use excessive force in defending himself versus the 0:21:29.680 --> 0:21:33.720 officer's right indeed duty to protect himself during routine law 0:21:33.800 --> 0:21:38.159 enforcement operations. That's the question. The courts below decided in 0:21:38.200 --> 0:21:40.879 favor of the officer on papers. There was no trial 0:21:40.960 --> 0:21:44.800 yet and the facts are actually, unfortunately not that unusual because, 0:21:44.880 --> 0:21:47.359 as you know, a traffic stop is one of the 0:21:47.400 --> 0:21:51.679 most dangerous police operations that in domestic violence calls. Officers 0:21:51.720 --> 0:21:55.359 hate this because they are encountering a situation where unknown 0:21:55.440 --> 0:21:59.240 dangerous will occur in rapid, split second motion, and the 0:21:59.320 --> 0:22:02.639 courts of traditionally recognized this and deferred to the officers. 0:22:02.840 --> 0:22:05.359 In this case, the officer stopped the car, came up 0:22:05.359 --> 0:22:08.240 to the driver's window ordered Barnes to get out. Barnes 0:22:08.320 --> 0:22:11.160 refused and then started arguing with him, and the officer 0:22:11.240 --> 0:22:14.480 said get out of the car, which is normal police practice. 0:22:14.720 --> 0:22:17.280 Barnes started to drive off. Now at that point the 0:22:17.359 --> 0:22:20.560 officer reached in to grab the keys and as a result, 0:22:20.680 --> 0:22:24.239 he is now riding along as the car begins to 0:22:24.280 --> 0:22:27.359 take off down a highway. A bad situation. And at 0:22:27.400 --> 0:22:29.720 that point his weapon was out and he shot the 0:22:29.760 --> 0:22:32.320