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Speaker 1: This is the Meat Eater Podcast coming at you shirtless, severely,

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Speaker 1: bug bitten, and in my case, underwear listeningcast, you can't

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Speaker 1: predict anything. The Meat Eater Podcast is brought to you

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Speaker 1: by First Light. Whether you're checking trail cams, hanging deer stands,

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Speaker 1: or scouting for el, First Light has performance apparel to

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Speaker 1: support every hunter in every environment. Check it out at

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Speaker 1: first light dot com, f I R S T L

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Speaker 1: I T E dot com. I'm not in the plumbing

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Speaker 1: or appliance business, so I can share this hot tip

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Speaker 1: for the listeners that happen to be in plumbing and appliance,

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Speaker 1: in particular the intersection of plumbing and appliance. This came

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Speaker 1: to me literally, it came into being a dream. In

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Speaker 1: a dream, I was staying in a hotel and I

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Speaker 1: was standing in the shower in the hotel and realize

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Speaker 1: that there's one of those little espresso machines in there

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Speaker 1: in the shower.

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Speaker 2: Are you sure it wasn't body wash?

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Speaker 1: No? No, I was astounded. In the dream. I was

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Speaker 1: blown out.

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Speaker 3: You could.

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Speaker 1: Like like you're standing there showering and there's like a

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Speaker 1: thing in the hotel and it had these little cups.

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Speaker 1: It's like and you had a shot of espresso in

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Speaker 1: the shower.

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Speaker 3: Save yourself.

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Speaker 1: A little time. Came to me in a dream.

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Speaker 4: All right, some company start hotel.

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Speaker 1: Tea listen, man, I know, and I'm just throwing it

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Speaker 1: out there because I'm not in a position to capitalize

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Speaker 1: on it. I'd have to move into plumbing, appliances, coffee business,

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Speaker 1: coffee business, hotel contracting. I mean, come on, man's only

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Speaker 1: got man's only got so much time. Joined today by

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Speaker 1: doctor Ron Kendall, Professor of Toxicology. Yes at Texas State University.

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Speaker 1: This is gonna be our first ever. There's two first.

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Speaker 1: What did I say Texas State? I didn't. Is there

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Speaker 1: such a thing? Yeah, I'm at Texas Tech. Okay, but

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Speaker 1: is there a Texas State? Yeah? There is so many

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Speaker 1: huh sorry, sorry about that Texas Tech. Uh, which I'm

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Speaker 1: just gonna go out on a lemon say it's better

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Speaker 1: than Texas State Texas Tech. And there's there's multiple first here.

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Speaker 1: Because this is our first ever episode. I don't know

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Speaker 1: how we've missed this in all the billion years we've

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Speaker 1: been making the show. This is the first ever episode

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Speaker 1: where we focused on the plight of the Bob White quail.

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Speaker 1: Not only that, the other first is doctor Kendall has

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Speaker 1: And people might hear this and they might not be

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Speaker 1: overwhelmed by it, but just hear us out. We're gonna

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Speaker 1: explain why the first ever FDA approved vaccine for wild birds. Now,

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Speaker 1: this is coming at a time when vaccines are exceedingly

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Speaker 1: divisive in American culture. You know, I'd be arguing about

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Speaker 1: the COVID vaccine all the time. You still get in

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Speaker 1: trouble for talking about this. They's still like ban you

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Speaker 1: from YouTube for sand's controversial. So the vaccines has been

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Speaker 1: in the news. But here we have a case of

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Speaker 1: the first ever FDA approved vaccine for wild birds, and

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Speaker 1: we're going to talk about that in the context of

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Speaker 1: what in the hell has happened to all of the

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Speaker 1: quail everywhere?

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Speaker 3: Absolutely, I mean.

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Speaker 1: A whole culture in some states, like the entire culture

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Speaker 1: of quail hunting is vanished in a lifetime.

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Speaker 3: That's true.

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Speaker 1: My friends in Texas, my buddy Brad in Texas, they

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Speaker 1: have they have a big family property and they have

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Speaker 1: the quail. They still have the quail hunting trucks. All

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Speaker 1: the art is quail hunting art.

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Speaker 5: Did you guys have any around when you were a

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Speaker 5: kid in Michigan.

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Speaker 1: You had to go a little bit south southern, not

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Speaker 1: a little bit.

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Speaker 5: My dadad and my like my friends' dads used to

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Speaker 5: talk about how they used to quail hunt in Pennsylvania

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Speaker 5: and they're just like they were all gone by the

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Speaker 5: time I was hunting.

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Speaker 1: When I was still in college. So in the nineties

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Speaker 1: we would go every winter over Christmas break and hunt

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Speaker 1: quail in southern Illinois. They ain't there, right, Yeah, Uh,

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Speaker 1: Brad's placed atteria. You go in all the art, it's

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Speaker 1: quail hunting art. They like, are not. They don't hunt quail.

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Speaker 1: M It ceased to be a thing.

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Speaker 4: Where did they used to be?

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Speaker 1: Well, we're going to talk about all that in a minute.

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Speaker 1: First're gonna talk about cowboy hats. We're gonna getting at

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Speaker 1: all that.

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Speaker 3: So much.

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Speaker 1: Listener feedback on my observation that that I was like,

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Speaker 1: I was saying that I had a rather end fact,

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Speaker 1: you know, perhaps an end defensible position, Doctor Kenda'll be

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Speaker 1: curious to get your opinion on this. Or I was saying,

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Speaker 1: if you're not livestock adjacent, you have no business running

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Speaker 1: around in a cowboy hat. And I equated it too

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Speaker 1: that if I ran around in a police uniform, if

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Speaker 1: I dressed up like a cop, people would that would

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Speaker 1: be odd, right, people would be like, where's he get

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Speaker 1: off dressing up like a cop? I think you're reaching,

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Speaker 1: But you can dress up like a cowboy without repercussion?

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Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean you get mad at like like I

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Speaker 5: don't know some rock star.

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Speaker 2: Well, a police uniform designates a certain amount of like

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Speaker 2: authority that they can I.

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Speaker 1: Think of a cowboys having more authority than a cop.

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Speaker 5: You're viewing it as an occupational like uniform type thing

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Speaker 5: versus like a fashion thing.

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Speaker 1: I'm just saying, think of the world and think of

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Speaker 1: a world in which you could just run around in

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Speaker 1: a police uniform. Right, it would be chaos. But why

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Speaker 1: is it okay that you can run around on the

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Speaker 1: cowboys suit as.

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Speaker 3: It doesn't.

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Speaker 6: Cowboy uniform and a cowboy hat? I mean, I feel

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Speaker 6: like you need one more piece of a tire.

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Speaker 3: A duster.

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Speaker 5: If you have a cowboy hat and a dust, you know.

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Speaker 1: You know, you know. The American Prairie Reserve, the movement

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Speaker 1: in that area against the APR, against the American Prairie

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Speaker 1: Reserve is like and even the even the head of

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Speaker 1: the American Prairieserve acknowledges the genius of Save the Cowboys

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Speaker 1: Stop APR right like a marketing however you feel, I

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Speaker 1: personally am like like, ah, like you know, willing seller,

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Speaker 1: willing buyer. They're buying land that's for sale, and as

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Speaker 1: you know, sort of a foundational American principle is that

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Speaker 1: when you buy land, you can do what you want

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Speaker 1: with it. And so if the APR is buying land

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Speaker 1: that's currently for sale and choosing to look at it

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Speaker 1: or whatever, it's their business. I don't know. True, it

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Speaker 1: doesn't mean you got loved, but I mean it's like

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Speaker 1: it's kind of like an American principle, you know, you

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Speaker 1: buy if you bought property and said, you know what,

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Speaker 1: I decided on my property, I don't want any fences.

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Speaker 1: It's like, why is that some insulting to people?

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Speaker 4: It gets a little uncomfortable when we think about in Texas,

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Speaker 4: remember that one spot in Texas, in that one place

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Speaker 4: in Georgia where there were monkey farms.

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Speaker 1: Well, you're right, you're right.

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Speaker 4: That's when you know then you're like that slippery I know.

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Speaker 1: But I'm seeing I'm I'm doing like Devil's advocacy and

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Speaker 1: I'm trying to make a much broader point. So scrap

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Speaker 1: the APR thing. What was I even talking about.

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Speaker 5: That for Save the Cowboy?

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Speaker 3: That's right.

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Speaker 1: People that are opposed to it say like that it's

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Speaker 1: a brilliant bit of marketing. Save the Cowboy, Stop the APR.

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Speaker 1: So I view it like my I'm trying to save

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Speaker 1: the American cowboy, the integrity of the American cowboy. Meaning

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Speaker 1: what if I see a guy, I'm like that there

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Speaker 1: is a real cowboy. I'll stay to my kids that

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Speaker 1: there as a cowboy. Now, I don't know, I could

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Speaker 1: be getting duped.

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Speaker 4: Could be.

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Speaker 5: So you should have to have like a a carrying

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Speaker 5: card to be a real cowboy.

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Speaker 1: We just had the people in from the Shoshone and

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Speaker 1: a rapa Hole tribes that they have to carry they

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Speaker 1: have to carry what they were calling their Indian car. Yeah, sure, dude,

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Speaker 1: ranch hands and stolen cowboy valory. This generated some KRIN

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Speaker 1: pulled some good feedback from it. Guy says, I was

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Speaker 1: just listening to Steve's rant on episode six fourteen about

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Speaker 1: a fake ranch hand at the airport and the prevalence

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Speaker 1: of people wearing cowboy hats. He goes on, I understand

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Speaker 1: that Steve feels like most people he sees he has

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Speaker 1: seen wearing a cowboy hat lately, have no business wearing one.

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Speaker 1: As a US Marine Corps veteran, I fully understand his

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Speaker 1: point of view. There are a lot of dipshits that

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Speaker 1: buy surplus military unit I don't know this was the thing.

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Speaker 1: There are a lot of dipshits that buy surplus military

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Speaker 1: uniforms and pretend to be service memors veterans for the

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Speaker 1: attention instead of growing a pair and actually joining the

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Speaker 1: armed forces. However, as someone who did serve, I am

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Speaker 1: not bothered in the slightest by those here. He uses

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Speaker 1: a term I have never encountered.

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Speaker 5: It's an interesting, colorful one.

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Speaker 1: So that term, which I've never encountered. It combines the

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Speaker 1: word knuckle with a euphemism for fornicator. Ninety nine percent

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Speaker 1: of them are just this, he goes on. Ninety nine

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Speaker 1: percent of them are just attention seeking fools who mean

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Speaker 1: no harm, pose no harm, and rarely fool anyone worth fooling.

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Speaker 1: The most they will ever achieve is a few moments

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Speaker 1: of stolen valor. He's speaking not about the military uniform.

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Speaker 1: I think he's speaking about stolen valor, Like is wearing

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Speaker 1: a cowboy hat when you're not in the livestock business.

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Speaker 1: This is stolen valor, not quite so funny.

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Speaker 4: I love this guy, I love it.

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Speaker 1: Stolen valor. He goes on. But even though I understand

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Speaker 1: Steve's misgivings about wannabe cowboys, his contempt is misplaced. It's

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Speaker 1: a hat. People like different types of hats. It's their

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Speaker 1: right to express themselves freely, and I will fully defend

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Speaker 1: anyone exercising that right, even the right school, even the

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Speaker 1: night school, rejects that dress up as service members or cops.

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Speaker 5: That's a little harsh on the night school.

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Speaker 1: Long story short, everyone could tell the difference between a

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Speaker 1: real cop, cowboy, veteran, et cetera, and the wannabes. Additionally,

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Speaker 1: it's kind of weird that Steve has so bent out

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Speaker 1: of shape over the cultural appropriation of cowboys.

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Speaker 3: Let the clowns be clowns.

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Speaker 1: Love you, William another guy. This is in reference to

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Speaker 1: episode six fourteen quote. I'm quoting him here, Steve was

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Speaker 1: complaining about people in cowboy hats. As much as I

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Speaker 1: agree with his opinion on this, Steve needs a little

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Speaker 1: reminder that these want to be cowboy hipsters are currently

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Speaker 1: keeping the beaver pelt market alive. And well, I've acknowledged

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Speaker 1: this again and again. Every time I bring it up.

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Speaker 1: I acknowledge this. He goes out and say, well, I

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Speaker 1: may think these people look like idiots, as long as

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Speaker 1: my beaver pelts keep selling, they can play dress up

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Speaker 1: all they want. Another one called cowboy hats on Liberals

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Speaker 1: dear me eater Krue, Steve again got talking about his

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Speaker 1: disdain for folks wearing cowboy hats and other than western

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Speaker 1: wear who don't work in a livestock adjacent industry. I

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Speaker 1: think his point can fundamentally be distilled into the perspective

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Speaker 1: that cowboy hats and boots are you specific, and if

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Speaker 1: you don't work in that industry, then the need for

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Speaker 1: their use doesn't exist. But I think Steve should consider

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Speaker 1: a broader user group. Many people go on trail rides

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Speaker 1: or visit dude ranches on vacation, so they may well

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Speaker 1: have a legitimate use for cowboy hats and cowboy boots.

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Speaker 5: No, you can ride a horse with a baseball hat

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Speaker 5: on dude.

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Speaker 1: The fact that he would need a cowboy hat to

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Speaker 1: go to a dude.

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Speaker 2: Ranch that's the dress up he's taught. He's like referring

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Speaker 2: to right now.

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Speaker 6: He says, legitimate use a wider brim tat keeps the

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Speaker 6: sun off.

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Speaker 4: Here's the sun off, you know.

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Speaker 1: Okay, but let's say you were out golfing all that

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Speaker 1: day because the sun is still shining.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it'd be just it's appropriate on a golf.

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Speaker 3: Course.

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Speaker 1: Why is it that when you're out in the sun

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Speaker 1: and there's a horse by you, you suddenly need a

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Speaker 1: higher level of neck for tect. I mean, like if

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Speaker 1: they were out digging ditches all day. It doesn't have

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Speaker 1: anything to do with anything.

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Speaker 4: It seems like the cowboy hat is just a superior

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Speaker 4: hat I had better at doing its job than a cat.

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Speaker 1: I'm trying to give airspace to the opposing viewpoint here,

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Speaker 1: but I'll tell you this. I had exposure for a

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Speaker 1: number of years to a dude ranch through circumstances I'll

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Speaker 1: not get into, but I had some I would have.

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Speaker 1: I would be a number of times spent a little

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Speaker 1: bit of time at a dude ranch. And oddly the

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Speaker 1: people that worked there were the most cowboy dressing up

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Speaker 1: people on the planet. But they were all rich, kid,

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Speaker 1: they were all rich boarding school kids and their parents

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Speaker 1: would go to the Dude Ranch. Okay, rich kids from

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Speaker 1: out East. They'd grow up going to the dude Ranch

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Speaker 1: and playing cowboy. Then they get older and they get

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Speaker 1: a little rebellious, and then they go to work at

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Speaker 1: the place for a while as sort of like this

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Speaker 1: little act of rebellion, and they would dress up like

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Speaker 1: seventies cowboys. So everybody that works there dresses like a

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Speaker 1: cowboy from the seventies. Everybody that works there, I don't know,

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Speaker 1: like the Marlboro Man, like yeah, yeah, like silk scarf.

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Speaker 1: You know, if you go and watch Ranchody Lucks, they

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Speaker 1: all dressed like Ranchody Lucks. Yeah, and like yeah like seventies.

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Speaker 5: Like Reynolds and what was the trans Am movie?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, stuff like like yeah, you know when you uh

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Speaker 1: and and there's like it's hard to express it. There's

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Speaker 1: a little bit of like at this dude ranch too,

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Speaker 1: there's a little bit of like a little sexy mixed

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Speaker 1: in right up.

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Speaker 4: Hm, that seems right.

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Speaker 1: He goes on, did I get into anyways? He says,

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Speaker 1: here he's attack. In my viewpoint, there's no different than

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Speaker 1: wearing a cowboy, or no more different than dressing like

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Speaker 1: a policeman. He says, the name is the same is

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Speaker 1: not true for a police outfit. The public generally can't

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Speaker 1: go on a ride along and dressed like cops as

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Speaker 1: part of their vacation. It's a valid point, and it's

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Speaker 1: probably illegal to impersonate a police officer. I think cowboy

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Speaker 1: hats and boots are more similar to motorcycle jackets and boots.

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Speaker 1: They serve a real purpose when you are riding, but

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Speaker 1: it's also okay to wear them when you are not riding.

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Speaker 1: Same with hiking boots and pants, or the scholarly apparel

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Speaker 1: that Randall might wear, such as a tweed blazer with

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Speaker 1: elbow patches. That mean said, I totally agree that spurs

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Speaker 1: and the airport are a bit much. He goes on.

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Speaker 1: A few years back, I made plans to go trail

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Speaker 1: riding for the first time. I wanted a cowboy hat,

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Speaker 1: but there aren't any Western wear stores near me in

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Speaker 1: New Jersey. Even though John Stetson, this is a little

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Speaker 1: thing I didn't know, even though he goes on, even

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Speaker 1: though John Stetson is from New Jersey. So I ordered

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Speaker 1: a Stetson hat off Amazon. It came in a plastic

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Speaker 1: bag as a pancake.

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Speaker 3: Oh.

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Speaker 1: I processed the return and the new one also came,

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Speaker 1: and Amazon told me to just keep the old one.

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Speaker 1: I did that five more times and ended up with

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Speaker 1: seven Stetsons, all flat. Then COVID hit and I never

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Speaker 1: went a trail riding.

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Speaker 5: I think maybe he wasn't getting legit stats, and from

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Speaker 5: his Amazons.

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Speaker 1: He says he's been wearing it gardening instead.

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Speaker 2: Did you label this cowboy hats on liberals?

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Speaker 1: Or was that?

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Speaker 4: Was that fair thing?

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Speaker 2: Because I would argue that the tourists wearing cowboy hats

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Speaker 2: is mostly from like conservatives from Orange County who move

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Speaker 2: up here because they're tired of liberal California and they're like,

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Speaker 2: I'm gonna wear my cowboy hat.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, like I've had enough of the bullshit exactly, I'm

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Speaker 1: going to Montana and getting the cowboy hat.

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Speaker 3: Hello, fellow cowboys, how are you? How do you do?

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Speaker 1: Last one? Is this the last one? Last one? Airport

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Speaker 1: cowboy hats? He begins his note with salutations. I couldn't

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Speaker 1: help but think about Steve's disdain for people dressing his

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Speaker 1: cowboys in the airport and wonder what the difference is

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Speaker 1: between that and anyone wearing a baseball Jersey to a

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Speaker 1: baseball game. I'm going to my kids tonight. I'm going

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Speaker 1: to the there's a thing for my kids debate for

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Speaker 1: debate club debate. Jimmy, Oh, this guy's not invited. Okay,

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Speaker 1: so he's wanting to compare it.

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Speaker 3: Okay.

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Speaker 1: It's not like the fan is going there to pinch

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Speaker 1: hit or step on the mound because the entire bullpen

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Speaker 1: was somehow injured, but rather to support who they're rooting for.

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Speaker 1: Chances are people in the stats and and Spurs are

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Speaker 1: not cheering on their home team on the range. But

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Speaker 1: would it be fair to say that maybe they're such

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Speaker 1: big fans of the West lifestyle that they choose to

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Speaker 1: portray themselves in that fashion. I don't believe the two

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Speaker 1: situations are exact replicas of one another, meaning it's an

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Speaker 1: imperfect analogy, but they seem hand in hand. Sports fans

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Speaker 1: who waste their time and money dressing like overpaid, whiny

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Speaker 1: athletes is a close enough comparison. In my less than

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Speaker 1: humble opinion.

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Speaker 2: I disagree. Yeah, also athletes taking astray what's going on here?

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Speaker 4: I think I think that's the one toward the end

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Speaker 4: is a good point.

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Speaker 1: It's a great point. It's almost too obvious right here.

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Speaker 1: He goes on to say, as for Steve's a version

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Speaker 1: for cowboy hats that aren't in a hands, that aren't

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Speaker 1: in livestock adjacency. He goes on, he says, I wonder

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Speaker 1: how the non hunting public view cameo worn anywhere, but

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Speaker 1: the woods no no camo has become not the same.

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Speaker 1: I don't think you should wear it if you don't

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Speaker 1: like I would question wearing it if you're not in

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Speaker 1: an outdoor adjacency lifestyle like snowboarders. That annoys me, and

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Speaker 1: I could pick that up as my next thing that

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Speaker 1: annoys me. I'm shopping around.

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Speaker 3: I gotta show.

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Speaker 5: Though it's a small part of this based in the

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Speaker 5: fact like that you feel like you just can't pull

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Speaker 5: off a cowboy hat yourself.

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Speaker 4: We've seen Steven a cowboy hat. I think he looked swell, swell.

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Speaker 1: I'll return again to Ronnie Bamb to two things. Ronnie

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Speaker 1: Bam told me never wear a hat that says hello

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Speaker 1: before you do. And I wear a fur hat but

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Speaker 1: I'm a trapper and uh and uh what was this

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Speaker 1: other one?

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Speaker 5: Personality has more personality?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and likewise, he says, this. He said, never wear

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Speaker 1: a hat that has more personality than you do.

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Speaker 4: This should be a shirt. It should be a podcast

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Speaker 4: inspired meat eater shirts, cowboy hat with that, or like

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Speaker 4: you know Raccoon had.

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Speaker 1: And a yeah, hey did you did you? Did you

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Speaker 1: eliminate the need for Brody to talk about Oh no, Brodie,

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Speaker 1: are you ready?

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Speaker 4: Oh?

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Speaker 5: Are we jumping to spearing? Just very quickly, let me

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Speaker 5: scroll back up. They're still at the top.

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Speaker 1: Well, I thought you, I thought you were researching it.

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Speaker 3: I get that.

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Speaker 5: We got a letter from someone here in Montana. Just

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Speaker 5: wanted to make sure that all interested parties were aware

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Speaker 5: that amendment to the Montana Fishing Regulations had just has

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Speaker 5: just been proposed that would open the Western Western District.

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Speaker 5: Montana's divided into three fishing districts, East, Central, West, open

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Speaker 5: the Western district up to spear fishing for northern Pikes.

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Speaker 5: Have remembers of the crew are major proponents of spearfishing.

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Speaker 5: He's just trying to like he supports this thing, he

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Speaker 5: likes the idea. I'm not sure if this thing will

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Speaker 5: get approved or not. But the thing is is a

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Speaker 5: lot of Western Montana's waters are already open to spearfishing.

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Speaker 1: For northern pike.

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Speaker 5: Like, where there's pike, it's generally a lot of them.

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Speaker 5: You can already go spearfishing, not all, not all, but

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Speaker 5: a lot of them because they have pike in a

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Speaker 5: lot of places they'd rather not have them. But they're

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Speaker 5: not going anywhere. But it's basically like a free for

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Speaker 5: all on them where they are. Like you were saying,

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Speaker 5: the sea Lestwan, the clearwater. There's a small lake.

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Speaker 3: Outside of.

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Speaker 5: But yeah, yeah, so there are already places where you

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Speaker 5: can do that.

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Speaker 1: I don't have a problem with it, Like, I think

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Speaker 1: it'd be great. I think it'll probably pass because they're

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Speaker 1: trying to slow down the spread of North. I call

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Speaker 1: him Northeast. When I was a kid, like my county,

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Speaker 1: I lived in twin Town, but it was a Moskegon county,

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Speaker 1: but there was a there's a wealthy neighborhood called North Miskegon,

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Speaker 1: and everyone that didn't live in Northkegon hated like class

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Speaker 1: and we called Northeast. Gotcha, everybody hated them except them.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean, there's places where you can shoot pike

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Speaker 5: with rifles. What's a big deal with with spearing them?

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Speaker 1: Where can you shoot a pike with a rifle?

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Speaker 5: I think there's still a seat there. May it may

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Speaker 5: have been ended, but there at a time, like in Vermont,

401
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Speaker 5: you could shoot them with rifles some places in the Northlake, Vermont.

402
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Speaker 1: Yeah, that seems like it encourage some hazardous behavior. Man,

403
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Speaker 1: they may have ended it, but they're taking shots at

404
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Speaker 1: a shallow angle over hear the neighbor's house.

405
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Speaker 5: Or something that you shot on a fish or two

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Speaker 5: in your life.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, oh yeah.

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Speaker 6: A little off topic. But I grew up in Whitefish

409
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Speaker 6: and had a school mate acquaintance kid that was like

410
00:22:55,920 --> 00:22:58,840
Speaker 6: two grades older than me, Die Spearfish in Whitefish Lake.

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Speaker 6: He punctured a electric wire under the water.

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Speaker 3: Super sad.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, shot never the ice spearing, not spearfishing.

414
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Speaker 6: No, he was under the water in the summer, swimming

415
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Speaker 6: around looking for carp I believe, and uh a wire, yeah, electric,

416
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Speaker 6: I believe. It was a two twenty vault to a

417
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Speaker 6: water pump that was probably water in somebody's lawn. Yeah,

418
00:23:22,880 --> 00:23:25,560
Speaker 6: he never came up, and his friend that realized he

419
00:23:25,600 --> 00:23:28,159
Speaker 6: never came up dove in after him and when he

420
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Speaker 6: touched him to release him, he got electrocuted, almost died too,

421
00:23:31,960 --> 00:23:34,199
Speaker 6: but he didn't. I never heard what ended up happening

422
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Speaker 6: if there was a lawsuit or whatever.

423
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Speaker 5: Yeah, I want to jump one thing about this spearfishing thing.

424
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Speaker 5: You know how spearfish and walleye is legal in like lake?

425
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Speaker 5: Is it Lake Michigan.

426
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Speaker 1: Well, it's legal, it's it's it's legal north of thunder

427
00:23:49,400 --> 00:23:53,600
Speaker 1: Bay on the Lake Huron side, and it's no, it's

428
00:23:53,680 --> 00:23:56,320
Speaker 1: legal south of thunder Bay on Lake hereon, and it's

429
00:23:56,440 --> 00:24:00,000
Speaker 1: legal south of Grand Haven on Lake Michigan side.

430
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Speaker 5: And real guys get all bent out of shape about it.

431
00:24:03,240 --> 00:24:06,159
Speaker 1: Well, they don't have any reason to be because what

432
00:24:06,200 --> 00:24:08,199
Speaker 1: they did they made a special license. So they know

433
00:24:08,240 --> 00:24:12,320
Speaker 1: how many spearfishing certificates are being sold, and all spearfishermen

434
00:24:12,440 --> 00:24:14,840
Speaker 1: have to submit a report, and they're going to be

435
00:24:15,440 --> 00:24:19,320
Speaker 1: quite surprised at how few exactly wally dogs are getting

436
00:24:19,440 --> 00:24:23,040
Speaker 1: killed relative to Roden real guys. And I don't think

437
00:24:23,040 --> 00:24:25,560
Speaker 1: it is that contentious, right, It is a non thing.

438
00:24:25,600 --> 00:24:28,639
Speaker 5: It's a non thing that I mean there when I

439
00:24:28,680 --> 00:24:31,520
Speaker 5: was doing my research there at it, and something I

440
00:24:31,600 --> 00:24:33,280
Speaker 5: found was that there'd be.

441
00:24:35,240 --> 00:24:36,439
Speaker 3: Conflict. They made it.

442
00:24:36,560 --> 00:24:40,600
Speaker 1: They went and made it provisional subject to revisiting, and

443
00:24:40,600 --> 00:24:44,800
Speaker 1: it's it's a non issue. It's a non issue. But

444
00:24:44,840 --> 00:24:46,879
Speaker 1: that's even different because they're talking about a native fish

445
00:24:47,520 --> 00:24:49,760
Speaker 1: like you could always spear trash fish. I don't like

446
00:24:49,760 --> 00:24:53,640
Speaker 1: to use that term. It rough fish, non game, non game.

447
00:24:54,600 --> 00:24:56,520
Speaker 1: I take that back, Phil edit me out saying that

448
00:24:57,040 --> 00:24:58,080
Speaker 1: it make it make its like.

449
00:25:00,280 --> 00:25:00,800
Speaker 3: Non game.

450
00:25:03,040 --> 00:25:04,800
Speaker 1: You'd always be a non game. And they're trying to

451
00:25:04,840 --> 00:25:11,639
Speaker 1: open up like like Walleye Northeast, it might just be

452
00:25:11,920 --> 00:25:13,720
Speaker 1: like primarily Walleye and there.

453
00:25:13,600 --> 00:25:17,600
Speaker 5: And Montana is weird too because they have like in

454
00:25:17,680 --> 00:25:21,120
Speaker 5: some places in the state, game fish are game fish,

455
00:25:21,160 --> 00:25:23,199
Speaker 5: certain species of game fish or game fish, and then

456
00:25:23,200 --> 00:25:26,120
Speaker 5: you go somewhere else in the state and that species

457
00:25:26,200 --> 00:25:28,359
Speaker 5: is not managed as a game fish, like yellow perch.

458
00:25:28,440 --> 00:25:32,000
Speaker 5: There's places where there's no limit. Then in Canyon Fairy

459
00:25:32,040 --> 00:25:32,800
Speaker 5: you can only keep.

460
00:25:32,680 --> 00:25:34,600
Speaker 1: Ten, which makes them a game fish. They magic to

461
00:25:34,680 --> 00:25:38,639
Speaker 1: become a game fish. So it gets confusing. All right,

462
00:25:38,640 --> 00:25:45,720
Speaker 1: we'renna talk about well are you ready? Can you explain

463
00:25:45,840 --> 00:25:49,880
Speaker 1: toxicology doctor Kendall? I think of drunk people, Okay, I can.

464
00:25:50,200 --> 00:25:52,439
Speaker 3: First of all, Steve, I'm glad to glad to be

465
00:25:52,560 --> 00:25:55,800
Speaker 3: here and listen to this interesting conversation.

466
00:25:56,920 --> 00:25:58,960
Speaker 1: What's your take on it? On the cowboy hat deal,

467
00:25:59,080 --> 00:26:01,720
Speaker 1: like if you were a dictator of the world, Well,

468
00:26:01,800 --> 00:26:03,000
Speaker 1: I think you got something there.

469
00:26:03,040 --> 00:26:06,040
Speaker 3: I come from West Texas and we have true cowboys there,

470
00:26:06,920 --> 00:26:13,480
Speaker 3: and generally speaking, we see true cowboys dressed as cowboys

471
00:26:13,480 --> 00:26:18,840
Speaker 3: with cowboy hats associated with livestock or some agricultural industry.

472
00:26:19,240 --> 00:26:22,879
Speaker 3: I in fact have a cowboy hat because I have

473
00:26:22,960 --> 00:26:31,680
Speaker 3: a ranch with cows. So that's the real nature cards.

474
00:26:30,119 --> 00:26:31,399
Speaker 4: To talk about this, He's.

475
00:26:31,280 --> 00:26:32,120
Speaker 1: Got a cowboy card.

476
00:26:32,400 --> 00:26:34,800
Speaker 3: So I got my cowboy card and I sold and

477
00:26:34,880 --> 00:26:38,040
Speaker 3: bought a lot of cattle. Believe it or not, but

478
00:26:38,920 --> 00:26:46,639
Speaker 3: an environmental toxicologist environmental toxicologist is an individual studying the

479
00:26:46,640 --> 00:26:51,919
Speaker 3: the transport, fate and effects of chemicals and drugs on

480
00:26:52,200 --> 00:26:57,040
Speaker 3: wildlife and human health how it affects reproduction, well being,

481
00:26:57,440 --> 00:27:01,160
Speaker 3: and your health, including cancer. So that's what I do,

482
00:27:01,400 --> 00:27:03,440
Speaker 3: and I've done it all over the world. I've traveled

483
00:27:03,480 --> 00:27:08,159
Speaker 3: the world in my work and have been involved with

484
00:27:09,600 --> 00:27:12,959
Speaker 3: the formation of what we call the Society of Environmental

485
00:27:13,000 --> 00:27:18,359
Speaker 3: Toxicology and Chemistry that just celebrated its forty fifth annual meeting,

486
00:27:18,920 --> 00:27:21,520
Speaker 3: bringing in people from all over the world this year

487
00:27:21,520 --> 00:27:24,800
Speaker 3: to Fort Worth, Texas. And that's my forty fifth meeting.

488
00:27:25,720 --> 00:27:29,560
Speaker 3: A charter member. So I've been involved a long time

489
00:27:29,640 --> 00:27:33,520
Speaker 3: in this field. In fact, even in my high school

490
00:27:34,000 --> 00:27:40,080
Speaker 3: and in my college days working with insect toxicologists that

491
00:27:40,200 --> 00:27:45,640
Speaker 3: were developing chemicals to kill insects that affected cotton. Well,

492
00:27:45,760 --> 00:27:48,840
Speaker 3: the question the bull weavil, and so.

493
00:27:49,400 --> 00:27:50,760
Speaker 1: I wouldn't know one if I saw one.

494
00:27:50,880 --> 00:27:54,840
Speaker 3: Well, I know what they look like and h But anyway,

495
00:27:54,960 --> 00:27:59,240
Speaker 3: I got exposed to this kind of thinking a long

496
00:27:59,320 --> 00:28:03,480
Speaker 3: time ago because at that point I was just a

497
00:28:03,560 --> 00:28:07,320
Speaker 3: teenager working in a lab, and at that time, people

498
00:28:07,320 --> 00:28:09,960
Speaker 3: didn't really think about what those chemicals were doing to

499
00:28:10,040 --> 00:28:14,240
Speaker 3: our environment and to our fish and wildlife resources and

500
00:28:14,320 --> 00:28:18,240
Speaker 3: to our health. Those were the days that kids would

501
00:28:18,520 --> 00:28:23,520
Speaker 3: drive behind a truck spraying DDT to kill mosquitoes and

502
00:28:23,520 --> 00:28:26,199
Speaker 3: they're just riding the fog. So, I mean, we just

503
00:28:26,280 --> 00:28:31,840
Speaker 3: didn't understand that. So what I've been involved with is

504
00:28:32,440 --> 00:28:36,440
Speaker 3: really a very challenging, interesting field, but also a sobering

505
00:28:36,520 --> 00:28:41,360
Speaker 3: feel because on a global basis, we are dramatically impacting

506
00:28:41,360 --> 00:28:44,320
Speaker 3: our planet and it concerns me with the loss of

507
00:28:44,360 --> 00:28:49,000
Speaker 3: biodiversity and the amount of chemicals and chemical transport that

508
00:28:49,320 --> 00:28:53,280
Speaker 3: now we're identifying, even in remote areas of the Arctic

509
00:28:54,000 --> 00:28:58,600
Speaker 3: in the rainforest and so on. But as we were

510
00:28:58,600 --> 00:29:02,600
Speaker 3: talking earlier, you were mentioning what happened to the quail,

511
00:29:03,880 --> 00:29:07,480
Speaker 3: and you know, I was Karinn and I were talking.

512
00:29:07,520 --> 00:29:09,800
Speaker 3: When I came in. She said, where are you from, Texas?

513
00:29:09,840 --> 00:29:13,520
Speaker 3: And I said, no, I actually grew up in Florence,

514
00:29:13,560 --> 00:29:17,280
Speaker 3: South Carolina. It was not far from Myrtle Beach. It's

515
00:29:17,360 --> 00:29:21,760
Speaker 3: called the coastal Plain of South Carolina. And I grew

516
00:29:21,800 --> 00:29:25,640
Speaker 3: up in the country. And I was lucky to have

517
00:29:25,680 --> 00:29:29,080
Speaker 3: a grandfather that mentored me to the outdoors, and he

518
00:29:29,120 --> 00:29:31,840
Speaker 3: gave me a lot of my environmental ethic. And he

519
00:29:31,960 --> 00:29:34,160
Speaker 3: was taking me quaal hunting. I guess I was six

520
00:29:34,240 --> 00:29:37,280
Speaker 3: or seven years old, and would walk around behind him

521
00:29:37,280 --> 00:29:39,600
Speaker 3: as he would quail hunt. I didn't have a gun,

522
00:29:40,040 --> 00:29:42,920
Speaker 3: but I was just so interested. And he had a

523
00:29:42,960 --> 00:29:47,600
Speaker 3: fine bird hunting dog, a Llewellen Setter, and it used

524
00:29:47,640 --> 00:29:50,880
Speaker 3: to be so interesting to me to watch him quaal hunt,

525
00:29:51,080 --> 00:29:53,800
Speaker 3: and he was a very good shot. So by the

526
00:29:53,840 --> 00:29:57,880
Speaker 3: time I got to be twelve years old, my grandfather

527
00:29:58,040 --> 00:30:01,640
Speaker 3: actually would let me use his iron bird dog, and

528
00:30:01,720 --> 00:30:05,040
Speaker 3: I started the quail hunt. And I can remember getting

529
00:30:05,120 --> 00:30:09,400
Speaker 3: my first quail now when I was a kid in

530
00:30:09,440 --> 00:30:13,920
Speaker 3: South Carolina. I actually hunted in a five mile radius

531
00:30:13,960 --> 00:30:16,959
Speaker 3: of my house. I knew, I knew that territory. I

532
00:30:17,040 --> 00:30:19,760
Speaker 3: walked it. I walked it and walked, and I had

533
00:30:19,760 --> 00:30:25,080
Speaker 3: a map, and my map identified quail coves and in

534
00:30:25,120 --> 00:30:25,680
Speaker 3: the fall.

535
00:30:27,160 --> 00:30:28,600
Speaker 1: Help me understand what that means.

536
00:30:28,520 --> 00:30:32,560
Speaker 3: For I'm gonna explain Steve, what a covey is is.

537
00:30:32,880 --> 00:30:34,880
Speaker 1: Well, I mean the map. You're gonna get to that too.

538
00:30:34,920 --> 00:30:38,840
Speaker 1: I'm gonna get to the mall great, because I need

539
00:30:38,840 --> 00:30:39,880
Speaker 1: to see one of these maps.

540
00:30:39,920 --> 00:30:44,240
Speaker 3: Well, that map was like priceless to me because it

541
00:30:44,320 --> 00:30:47,400
Speaker 3: identified where the covees were. Okay, it is where I

542
00:30:47,440 --> 00:30:50,360
Speaker 3: found a covey and a covey of quail in the

543
00:30:50,400 --> 00:30:52,480
Speaker 3: fall of the year back when I was a kid,

544
00:30:52,920 --> 00:30:56,760
Speaker 3: maybe fifteen or twenty quail twenty five quail in a group,

545
00:30:57,080 --> 00:31:01,800
Speaker 3: and they they roost on ground together in a circle.

546
00:31:01,880 --> 00:31:07,560
Speaker 3: Each night they feed together, and they for protection and

547
00:31:07,680 --> 00:31:13,560
Speaker 3: also for thermal regulation. Well, the bird dog, the hunting dog.

548
00:31:13,840 --> 00:31:18,240
Speaker 3: When I have five Llewellen Setters today, but those dogs

549
00:31:18,320 --> 00:31:21,840
Speaker 3: learn how to trail that scent and they point the

550
00:31:21,920 --> 00:31:26,280
Speaker 3: covey okay, maybe fifteen twenty yards away ten yards and

551
00:31:26,320 --> 00:31:29,080
Speaker 3: then you walk in front of the dog, and those

552
00:31:29,200 --> 00:31:32,160
Speaker 3: those when those quail come up as a cuvey. That's

553
00:31:32,280 --> 00:31:37,720
Speaker 3: pretty pretty sporty shooting because most people they get so

554
00:31:37,840 --> 00:31:40,480
Speaker 3: emotional when that big hovey comes up and you got

555
00:31:40,760 --> 00:31:44,880
Speaker 3: twenty buzz bombs taken off, they can't focus. So it's

556
00:31:44,920 --> 00:31:47,440
Speaker 3: a real art form. You gotta pick one out, you

557
00:31:47,480 --> 00:31:49,800
Speaker 3: gotta pick one out, and you gotta stay on him.

558
00:31:50,000 --> 00:31:53,320
Speaker 3: So it's a real art form of wing shooting. Okay.

559
00:31:53,920 --> 00:31:58,400
Speaker 3: In this map, I was a kid, loved the outdoors

560
00:31:58,440 --> 00:32:02,240
Speaker 3: and loved my fishing, and in it was my quail hounting.

561
00:32:02,560 --> 00:32:05,520
Speaker 3: And so I had this map and I had generated

562
00:32:05,760 --> 00:32:09,920
Speaker 3: of all the covey haunts that I could I could.

563
00:32:10,040 --> 00:32:11,720
Speaker 3: I knew where I could go and find three or

564
00:32:11,760 --> 00:32:16,840
Speaker 3: four covees in a two hour period based on that

565
00:32:16,920 --> 00:32:21,480
Speaker 3: particular terrain. So you know, my interest in quail goes

566
00:32:21,520 --> 00:32:27,280
Speaker 3: back to the very beginning. And what's so so concerning

567
00:32:27,360 --> 00:32:30,440
Speaker 3: now is that I could literally walk out my back

568
00:32:30,480 --> 00:32:33,360
Speaker 3: door sometime where I grew up and there'd be a

569
00:32:33,360 --> 00:32:35,480
Speaker 3: covey of quail walking across the backyard.

570
00:32:36,200 --> 00:32:38,240
Speaker 1: Okay, and that when you were when you were a kid,

571
00:32:38,440 --> 00:32:38,920
Speaker 1: I was a kid.

572
00:32:39,440 --> 00:32:43,200
Speaker 3: Now in that five mile radius of where I grew up.

573
00:32:43,680 --> 00:32:48,120
Speaker 3: You might be lucky to find one covey where when

574
00:32:48,200 --> 00:32:52,320
Speaker 3: I was twelve, thirteen, fourteen years old, there'd be fifty sixty,

575
00:32:52,480 --> 00:32:58,479
Speaker 3: eighty covees. Okay, so the impact has been dramatic. Now

576
00:32:59,280 --> 00:33:03,680
Speaker 3: I'm real four fortunate my quaal hunting buddies from a

577
00:33:03,760 --> 00:33:07,360
Speaker 3: kid from twelve years old, we still hunt together. We

578
00:33:07,480 --> 00:33:10,719
Speaker 3: still bird hunt together. They're both medical doctors in South Carolina,

579
00:33:11,400 --> 00:33:16,280
Speaker 3: and so they they tell me, I mean, basically, wild

580
00:33:16,360 --> 00:33:18,959
Speaker 3: quail hunting as we knew it as kids is gone

581
00:33:19,440 --> 00:33:23,160
Speaker 3: unless you're spending massive amount of money to manage your

582
00:33:23,240 --> 00:33:29,360
Speaker 3: ranch or something. So we've seen this happening across most

583
00:33:29,760 --> 00:33:32,360
Speaker 3: of the wild Bob White quail hunting range.

584
00:33:32,760 --> 00:33:34,800
Speaker 1: You might laying out that range for folks.

585
00:33:35,120 --> 00:33:37,360
Speaker 3: Yes, the wild Bob White.

586
00:33:38,200 --> 00:33:42,720
Speaker 1: Just to clarify my question, pick some point, I don't know,

587
00:33:43,000 --> 00:33:47,000
Speaker 1: like some it could be nineteen fifty, it could be

588
00:33:48,200 --> 00:33:50,840
Speaker 1: fourteen ninety two, I don't know, like like at some point,

589
00:33:51,280 --> 00:33:51,920
Speaker 1: where were they?

590
00:33:52,480 --> 00:33:58,760
Speaker 3: You know, the wild quail wile Bob White is a

591
00:33:59,080 --> 00:34:03,800
Speaker 3: historically valuable game bird, and we often call them the

592
00:34:03,840 --> 00:34:08,920
Speaker 3: canary of the prairie. They're good indicator species of grassland birds.

593
00:34:09,360 --> 00:34:13,400
Speaker 3: In fact, the bob white is among the most declining

594
00:34:13,680 --> 00:34:14,960
Speaker 3: bird in America today.

595
00:34:15,200 --> 00:34:15,960
Speaker 1: It's amazing.

596
00:34:16,280 --> 00:34:22,440
Speaker 3: And so the bob white looking back in time, probably

597
00:34:22,480 --> 00:34:26,040
Speaker 3: had huntable populations and up to twenty five states through

598
00:34:26,120 --> 00:34:31,560
Speaker 3: the southeast out into Texas, up into the Iowa, you know,

599
00:34:31,680 --> 00:34:35,480
Speaker 3: Kansas and so on. So when we look at it now,

600
00:34:37,160 --> 00:34:41,480
Speaker 3: some of the best quail hunting left in America is

601
00:34:41,520 --> 00:34:45,520
Speaker 3: in West Texas and southern Texas. But it's West Texas's

602
00:34:45,640 --> 00:34:48,160
Speaker 3: where I've done a lot of my research. And we

603
00:34:48,280 --> 00:34:51,400
Speaker 3: call it the Alamo of wild quail hunting left in

604
00:34:51,480 --> 00:34:55,040
Speaker 3: North America for bob white quail. And so you know,

605
00:34:55,360 --> 00:34:59,439
Speaker 3: it's really an interesting thing to look at as we're

606
00:34:59,480 --> 00:35:05,600
Speaker 3: losing this biodiversity. Okay, and because the wild quail people

607
00:35:05,640 --> 00:35:08,880
Speaker 3: love them in Texas, and there's so much interest in

608
00:35:08,920 --> 00:35:12,839
Speaker 3: preserving and conserving them, not just hunting them. But they

609
00:35:12,920 --> 00:35:17,560
Speaker 3: are just an important indicator species of our grassland birds.

610
00:35:18,320 --> 00:35:23,880
Speaker 3: So I originally came to Texas, Caran, you were asking me,

611
00:35:24,600 --> 00:35:29,279
Speaker 3: I originally came to Texas in nineteen ninety seven to

612
00:35:29,480 --> 00:35:33,440
Speaker 3: found an institute called the Institute of Environmental and Human Health. Okay,

613
00:35:34,040 --> 00:35:36,960
Speaker 3: and I was also a founding chairman of the Department

614
00:35:37,080 --> 00:35:41,840
Speaker 3: of Environmental Toxicology where we trained doctoral and master students

615
00:35:42,040 --> 00:35:45,160
Speaker 3: and now the field of environmental toxicology. When I was

616
00:35:45,200 --> 00:35:48,239
Speaker 3: a graduate student, we didn't have those degrees, okay, so

617
00:35:48,360 --> 00:35:53,040
Speaker 3: this is an important degree now. And the last twelve

618
00:35:53,160 --> 00:35:58,160
Speaker 3: years after moving out as director and chair, I founded

619
00:35:58,200 --> 00:36:03,480
Speaker 3: the Wildlife Toxicologyaboratory, and that's where we have worked extensively

620
00:36:03,560 --> 00:36:07,279
Speaker 3: with the United States Food and Drug Administration and to

621
00:36:07,360 --> 00:36:11,080
Speaker 3: develop a treatment for a disease in our wild quail.

622
00:36:11,680 --> 00:36:14,799
Speaker 3: Let me back up a little bit as we look

623
00:36:15,520 --> 00:36:21,640
Speaker 3: at agriculture and habitat impacts to our wild quail populations.

624
00:36:22,040 --> 00:36:27,600
Speaker 3: That's very significant and for the listeners, the habitat means

625
00:36:28,040 --> 00:36:32,720
Speaker 3: where quail live, where they occupy to reproduce and survive

626
00:36:32,840 --> 00:36:35,160
Speaker 3: the winter and breathe in the spring and the summer.

627
00:36:35,800 --> 00:36:41,440
Speaker 3: So we've seen increase in predator populations like hawks. Okay,

628
00:36:42,560 --> 00:36:46,879
Speaker 3: we can't shoot a wildhawk anymore, so they're all protected. Well,

629
00:36:46,880 --> 00:36:49,680
Speaker 3: a lot of them feed on quail, including the Cooper's hawk,

630
00:36:49,840 --> 00:36:53,720
Speaker 3: which is the most significant aerial predator to the wild quail.

631
00:36:54,320 --> 00:36:58,600
Speaker 3: And so we've seen changes in agriculture. Of course, heavy

632
00:36:58,680 --> 00:37:04,160
Speaker 3: agricultural chemical use, Okay, that exposes quail and so on.

633
00:37:04,320 --> 00:37:09,560
Speaker 3: So I look at it as a multitude of variables

634
00:37:09,600 --> 00:37:13,040
Speaker 3: that have come together to suppress our wild quail.

635
00:37:13,280 --> 00:37:16,279
Speaker 4: Can I ask you just a timeline question, like, are

636
00:37:16,320 --> 00:37:22,280
Speaker 4: we seeing the decline increase more twenty years ago, fifty

637
00:37:22,400 --> 00:37:22,919
Speaker 4: years ago?

638
00:37:23,680 --> 00:37:24,200
Speaker 3: Absolutely?

639
00:37:24,360 --> 00:37:27,000
Speaker 4: I like, what's you know if we were to graph

640
00:37:27,239 --> 00:37:30,680
Speaker 4: chart that, what are we looking at across a timeline.

641
00:37:31,920 --> 00:37:35,360
Speaker 3: Well, a lot of huntable populations have already been lost,

642
00:37:35,560 --> 00:37:39,600
Speaker 3: say in the Carolinas and Virginia and so on. But

643
00:37:39,840 --> 00:37:43,239
Speaker 3: as we even look at Texas for the last say,

644
00:37:43,280 --> 00:37:46,319
Speaker 3: go back to the seventies to now, you're seeing a

645
00:37:46,400 --> 00:37:53,160
Speaker 3: general decline. Okay, you have bumps of increases followed by crashes,

646
00:37:53,280 --> 00:37:55,640
Speaker 3: all right, And that's that I want to get I'm

647
00:37:55,640 --> 00:37:57,839
Speaker 3: going to get to that in just a minute. So,

648
00:37:58,120 --> 00:38:01,520
Speaker 3: but if you look at the curve over time, the

649
00:38:01,640 --> 00:38:04,240
Speaker 3: curb is generally going down about three or four percent

650
00:38:04,360 --> 00:38:05,279
Speaker 3: a year, all right.

651
00:38:05,360 --> 00:38:08,200
Speaker 1: And that curve pitched off at a round when in the.

652
00:38:08,160 --> 00:38:12,960
Speaker 3: Seventies, approximately late sixties seventies. Okay, Because when I was

653
00:38:13,040 --> 00:38:16,680
Speaker 3: hunting quail in the late sixties and early seventies, it

654
00:38:16,760 --> 00:38:20,439
Speaker 3: was unbelievable. It's okay, and I'm talking about you could

655
00:38:20,480 --> 00:38:24,640
Speaker 3: go out in an afternoon find ten or fifteen covees

656
00:38:24,680 --> 00:38:27,880
Speaker 3: of wild quail, Okay, in an afternoon. It was nothing

657
00:38:28,000 --> 00:38:33,280
Speaker 3: back then. Now people come and may go quail hunting

658
00:38:33,640 --> 00:38:37,120
Speaker 3: just a few years ago, even in Texas, and I'd

659
00:38:37,160 --> 00:38:40,160
Speaker 3: heard maybe they find one covey and hunt a whole weekend,

660
00:38:40,320 --> 00:38:43,560
Speaker 3: all right, So that's not very good quail hunting. And

661
00:38:44,080 --> 00:38:48,759
Speaker 3: when my buddies from South Carolina come to Texas, their

662
00:38:48,840 --> 00:38:53,160
Speaker 3: standard is at least twenty covees a day, okay hunting

663
00:38:53,200 --> 00:38:55,320
Speaker 3: a few hours in the morning and a few hours

664
00:38:55,320 --> 00:38:58,600
Speaker 3: in the afternoon. And generally I could provide that, but

665
00:38:59,239 --> 00:39:06,440
Speaker 3: only in specific areas. And what when we first started

666
00:39:06,480 --> 00:39:12,200
Speaker 3: looking at the whole quail question, it was largely precipitated

667
00:39:13,880 --> 00:39:17,000
Speaker 3: by a major crash of our wild quail back in

668
00:39:17,000 --> 00:39:22,480
Speaker 3: twenty ten in West Texas and on some of the

669
00:39:22,560 --> 00:39:27,640
Speaker 3: finest habitat that you could have a place where quail lived.

670
00:39:27,719 --> 00:39:31,040
Speaker 3: I mean, some of these ranches were superior. There was

671
00:39:31,320 --> 00:39:35,120
Speaker 3: adequate rainfall, the cover looked great. We were seeing lots

672
00:39:35,160 --> 00:39:38,680
Speaker 3: of broods of little baby quail. So everybody said, wow,

673
00:39:38,760 --> 00:39:41,600
Speaker 3: I mean we're going to have an unbelievable year. Everything

674
00:39:41,600 --> 00:39:44,880
Speaker 3: we were good, everything looked good. Well by the time

675
00:39:44,960 --> 00:39:49,680
Speaker 3: we got to October November, nobody could find quail. I

676
00:39:49,760 --> 00:39:52,920
Speaker 3: mean they were gone, and on one of the best

677
00:39:53,480 --> 00:39:57,080
Speaker 3: ranches you could find. It's a picture book quail hunting ranch.

678
00:39:57,920 --> 00:40:03,560
Speaker 3: They didn't hunt for five ye five years. They and

679
00:40:03,640 --> 00:40:06,720
Speaker 3: they had before that had some of the finest quail

680
00:40:06,760 --> 00:40:09,400
Speaker 3: hunting that you could have ever imagined. It took five

681
00:40:09,480 --> 00:40:13,840
Speaker 3: years to recover that population, even in a good zone

682
00:40:13,880 --> 00:40:20,839
Speaker 3: of West Texas. So this generated a large research initiative

683
00:40:21,360 --> 00:40:28,520
Speaker 3: funded by sportsman Steve in Texas Park City's Quail Coalition

684
00:40:29,040 --> 00:40:32,399
Speaker 3: of the Rolling Planes, Quail Research Foundation and so on

685
00:40:32,560 --> 00:40:36,920
Speaker 3: sportsmen and they said, we have got to figure out,

686
00:40:37,600 --> 00:40:42,120
Speaker 3: when we have this kind of habitat and perfect conditions,

687
00:40:42,200 --> 00:40:45,600
Speaker 3: climate and so on, for that particular year in twenty ten,

688
00:40:46,080 --> 00:40:49,920
Speaker 3: what the heck happened to dark quail. They were literally gone.

689
00:40:50,360 --> 00:40:54,840
Speaker 3: And our data suggested that we're not talking about losing

690
00:40:55,400 --> 00:40:58,200
Speaker 3: some of them on some of the ranches we were

691
00:40:58,360 --> 00:41:02,200
Speaker 3: looking at, We're talking losing ninety percent, all right. And

692
00:41:02,840 --> 00:41:08,680
Speaker 3: so this began a multi university research initiative to look

693
00:41:08,719 --> 00:41:16,080
Speaker 3: at environmental contaminants, pesticides, viruses, bacteria and so on?

694
00:41:16,640 --> 00:41:19,759
Speaker 1: Was the fire ant in the mix? And if not?

695
00:41:19,880 --> 00:41:22,320
Speaker 1: Can you hit on that? I hear that all the time.

696
00:41:22,400 --> 00:41:25,920
Speaker 3: Well, I know a lot about the fire ant. You're

697
00:41:25,920 --> 00:41:27,560
Speaker 3: going to have got me off track there, but I'll

698
00:41:27,560 --> 00:41:29,600
Speaker 3: address it. Well, No, I decided, like.

699
00:41:29,640 --> 00:41:32,040
Speaker 1: The whole what happened when I have this conversation with

700
00:41:32,040 --> 00:41:34,160
Speaker 1: people who are not as not authorities like you are

701
00:41:35,000 --> 00:41:39,080
Speaker 1: in the mix? Is this like fire ants well kill babies?

702
00:41:39,200 --> 00:41:43,040
Speaker 3: Believe it or not. For my master's degree at Clemson University,

703
00:41:43,440 --> 00:41:48,800
Speaker 3: I studied the fire ants sol Anopsis and victa and

704
00:41:48,800 --> 00:41:51,960
Speaker 3: and I know a lot about them. And uh, and

705
00:41:52,000 --> 00:41:55,680
Speaker 3: we were at that time testing an organic chlorine pesticide

706
00:41:55,760 --> 00:41:59,160
Speaker 3: called my rex that was utilized to be sprayed from

707
00:41:59,239 --> 00:42:04,839
Speaker 3: an airplane and a corn cob grit bait that the

708
00:42:04,960 --> 00:42:07,640
Speaker 3: ants would pick up and take into the mound and

709
00:42:07,680 --> 00:42:10,800
Speaker 3: kill the queen. Okay, but it was an organic chlorine

710
00:42:10,960 --> 00:42:16,000
Speaker 3: like DDT, So we ultimately couldn't use that anymore. And

711
00:42:16,320 --> 00:42:19,120
Speaker 3: that's a whole nother story. Maybe we can do another

712
00:42:19,160 --> 00:42:21,520
Speaker 3: podcast in organal chlorine pesticides.

713
00:42:21,600 --> 00:42:22,120
Speaker 1: I'd love you.

714
00:42:22,360 --> 00:42:27,480
Speaker 3: I'm serious, I'm serious and so, but in my opinion,

715
00:42:28,000 --> 00:42:30,200
Speaker 3: they are part of the mix. But they didn't wipe

716
00:42:30,200 --> 00:42:32,240
Speaker 3: out our quail. Okay, they just didn't.

717
00:42:32,520 --> 00:42:35,000
Speaker 1: And I'll tell you the argument is just so clear

718
00:42:35,040 --> 00:42:38,520
Speaker 1: on it because I might be wrong about this. They uh,

719
00:42:38,760 --> 00:42:43,440
Speaker 1: when the when the egg hatches, they bite the hatchling

720
00:42:43,520 --> 00:42:44,520
Speaker 1: and kill it.

721
00:42:44,520 --> 00:42:48,760
Speaker 3: It's possible. But I can still remember, uh, I guess

722
00:42:48,800 --> 00:42:51,800
Speaker 3: I was about sixteen years old. I was quail honeing

723
00:42:51,880 --> 00:42:56,680
Speaker 3: near my home and this area, this field burned, and

724
00:42:56,719 --> 00:42:59,319
Speaker 3: there were lots of quail in this field, like four

725
00:42:59,400 --> 00:43:02,160
Speaker 3: or five covey all right, and there were fire ant

726
00:43:02,200 --> 00:43:04,400
Speaker 3: mounds all over the place. And I looked at it

727
00:43:04,440 --> 00:43:06,560
Speaker 3: and I said, wow, this is a good bit of

728
00:43:06,600 --> 00:43:10,239
Speaker 3: fire ant mouns here and they're quail here. So the

729
00:43:10,320 --> 00:43:14,279
Speaker 3: fire ant, in my opinion, does not necessarily wipe out

730
00:43:14,320 --> 00:43:19,000
Speaker 3: the quail. They may have some impacts on when the

731
00:43:19,040 --> 00:43:24,920
Speaker 3: hatchlings hatch and so on. It's no, it's not the

732
00:43:25,000 --> 00:43:29,759
Speaker 3: big gun. It's not the silver bullet. And but what

733
00:43:30,160 --> 00:43:33,560
Speaker 3: I'm going to tell you is I think we've identified

734
00:43:33,600 --> 00:43:36,120
Speaker 3: one of the silver bullets that are really hitting our

735
00:43:36,160 --> 00:43:41,680
Speaker 3: wild quail. And so so I talked about this big

736
00:43:41,719 --> 00:43:45,640
Speaker 3: project called Operation idiopathic decline because nobody knew what was

737
00:43:45,719 --> 00:43:51,359
Speaker 3: the cause. It was called idiopathic ido because nobody could

738
00:43:51,680 --> 00:43:57,560
Speaker 3: When when a doctor does an operation ideopathic evaluation, they

739
00:43:57,560 --> 00:44:00,719
Speaker 3: don't know what's wrong with you. And so so with

740
00:44:00,880 --> 00:44:07,640
Speaker 3: the quail, this this terminology was coined with these foundations

741
00:44:07,680 --> 00:44:13,440
Speaker 3: coming together, funding all of this multidisciplinary research, and what

742
00:44:13,560 --> 00:44:19,360
Speaker 3: emerged and what's been a really undervalued area in wildlife

743
00:44:19,400 --> 00:44:24,160
Speaker 3: conservation are diseases, okay, and so this has been one

744
00:44:24,200 --> 00:44:31,800
Speaker 3: of the big unstudied areas that you know, I became

745
00:44:31,840 --> 00:44:35,560
Speaker 3: a parasitologist and I never even thought I would engage that.

746
00:44:35,800 --> 00:44:41,360
Speaker 3: So we so with this old ideal operation idiopath that declined,

747
00:44:41,400 --> 00:44:47,440
Speaker 3: big research program. What emerged in Texas, particularly in Western Texas,

748
00:44:48,000 --> 00:44:52,040
Speaker 3: was the occurrence of parasitic infections. And there were two

749
00:44:52,080 --> 00:44:57,040
Speaker 3: parasites that we identified in our wild quail, and one

750
00:44:57,360 --> 00:45:02,000
Speaker 3: was the eyeworm oxy spy rural pat rowley. The eyeworm

751
00:45:02,480 --> 00:45:05,960
Speaker 3: what is an eye worm. It's a worm that has

752
00:45:06,000 --> 00:45:10,080
Speaker 3: a sophisticated mouth part and it locates in the eye

753
00:45:10,080 --> 00:45:14,319
Speaker 3: of a quail and it feeds on tissues and so

754
00:45:14,480 --> 00:45:18,200
Speaker 3: on in the rear of the eye. Generally and including

755
00:45:18,239 --> 00:45:20,520
Speaker 3: the heart what we call the hardarian glen, which is

756
00:45:20,800 --> 00:45:26,440
Speaker 3: important for immune function and tear production. Nevertheless, this ie

757
00:45:26,520 --> 00:45:30,760
Speaker 3: worm is located in the eye and there quite large.

758
00:45:31,520 --> 00:45:36,880
Speaker 3: The female eyeworm adult will stretch across a penny. Okay,

759
00:45:37,520 --> 00:45:41,560
Speaker 3: and if you extrapolated that ee worm in that little

760
00:45:41,640 --> 00:45:46,120
Speaker 3: quail to your eye, that eyeworm would be the size.

761
00:45:45,920 --> 00:45:46,520
Speaker 1: Of a toothpick.

762
00:45:46,600 --> 00:45:48,160
Speaker 5: How were they picking this worm up?

763
00:45:48,320 --> 00:45:54,320
Speaker 3: Okay, good question. We have completely defined the life cycle

764
00:45:54,400 --> 00:45:59,200
Speaker 3: and published this. Steve, the reader of the listeners here

765
00:45:59,600 --> 00:46:04,760
Speaker 3: can go of my website at Wildlife Toxicology Lab dot

766
00:46:04,920 --> 00:46:08,719
Speaker 3: org and everything I'm talking about we've published the world

767
00:46:08,840 --> 00:46:13,600
Speaker 3: scientific literature. Okay, so we we we have pursued this

768
00:46:13,800 --> 00:46:16,480
Speaker 3: step by step by step, and I'll get to the

769
00:46:16,600 --> 00:46:18,880
Speaker 3: FDA work in a little bit because that was a

770
00:46:18,920 --> 00:46:19,640
Speaker 3: decade of work.

771
00:46:19,719 --> 00:46:20,319
Speaker 1: Take your time.

772
00:46:20,719 --> 00:46:29,200
Speaker 3: But the ie worm is a pretty sophisticated creature. They

773
00:46:29,239 --> 00:46:33,160
Speaker 3: have a very sophisticated mouth where they can attach and feed.

774
00:46:33,800 --> 00:46:40,440
Speaker 3: But they've been around a long time. We're not completely

775
00:46:40,520 --> 00:46:45,120
Speaker 3: sure of their in total total biological history, but they

776
00:46:45,200 --> 00:46:51,719
Speaker 3: are ninety six percent related to the Central African eyeworm

777
00:46:52,200 --> 00:46:56,640
Speaker 3: in the human called loa loa, and that worm in

778
00:46:56,719 --> 00:47:03,319
Speaker 3: a human can damage the eye, can result in blindness,

779
00:47:03,960 --> 00:47:07,920
Speaker 3: actually can penetrate the brain. Okay, So that eeworm in

780
00:47:07,960 --> 00:47:13,799
Speaker 3: a quail is highly related to a pathological infection even

781
00:47:13,840 --> 00:47:15,160
Speaker 3: in the human being. Okay.

782
00:47:15,320 --> 00:47:19,440
Speaker 4: Is the quail eye their cuisine of choice or do

783
00:47:19,520 --> 00:47:22,160
Speaker 4: we see them in other bird species.

784
00:47:22,280 --> 00:47:25,000
Speaker 3: I'll get to that corin lots of good questions here

785
00:47:26,360 --> 00:47:34,000
Speaker 3: the the it's a fascinating life history. But where the

786
00:47:34,440 --> 00:47:39,800
Speaker 3: quail basically will release eyeworm eggs and it's droppings, Okay,

787
00:47:40,000 --> 00:47:44,480
Speaker 3: as it's in a field feeting, and crickets and grasshoppers

788
00:47:44,520 --> 00:47:48,959
Speaker 3: come along and eat the droppings, and they ingest the egg.

789
00:47:49,680 --> 00:47:54,000
Speaker 3: The egg hatches in the cricket gut or the grasshopper

790
00:47:54,719 --> 00:47:58,480
Speaker 3: and it develops into what we call the infective L

791
00:47:58,600 --> 00:48:02,600
Speaker 3: three larvae. Okay, so there's it's a larvae. So the

792
00:48:02,640 --> 00:48:07,719
Speaker 3: quail comes along and grabs that cricket. Believe it or

793
00:48:07,760 --> 00:48:14,160
Speaker 3: not that that larvae can exit the exoskeleton of the

794
00:48:14,200 --> 00:48:19,160
Speaker 3: cricket and migrate up the esophagus into the nasal sinus

795
00:48:19,680 --> 00:48:21,280
Speaker 3: into the eye of the quail.

796
00:48:21,440 --> 00:48:23,960
Speaker 1: Coming out of the quails crop, yes, or gizzard or

797
00:48:23,960 --> 00:48:28,560
Speaker 1: something and the crop in ten minutes, that's all. And

798
00:48:28,600 --> 00:48:33,879
Speaker 1: what we get in the quail eats that cricket. Yep,

799
00:48:34,080 --> 00:48:36,440
Speaker 1: and the cricket's got the larvae in its gut. Yeah,

800
00:48:36,640 --> 00:48:40,480
Speaker 1: and that's something bitch comes out, shoots up into his

801
00:48:40,719 --> 00:48:43,000
Speaker 1: nasal capaccy or cave, he gets in his eyeball.

802
00:48:43,280 --> 00:48:45,760
Speaker 3: You can't believe it, but it's true. In ten minutes.

803
00:48:46,440 --> 00:48:48,560
Speaker 3: In ten minutes, that's so weird.

804
00:48:48,800 --> 00:48:50,400
Speaker 1: Does even know where to make a break for it.

805
00:48:51,120 --> 00:48:54,320
Speaker 3: It's a lot of things about biology we don't fully understand.

806
00:48:55,560 --> 00:48:59,839
Speaker 3: But the only thing I know is number one. Then

807
00:49:00,000 --> 00:49:03,080
Speaker 3: in faction carried by a given cricket may be more

808
00:49:03,120 --> 00:49:06,719
Speaker 3: than one one infective FLORIVI. So one cricket could be

809
00:49:06,840 --> 00:49:10,840
Speaker 3: ten ten eye worms. Okay, And then once that worm

810
00:49:10,960 --> 00:49:16,040
Speaker 3: gets in the quail. What we've learned now is it

811
00:49:16,120 --> 00:49:18,360
Speaker 3: pretty much is going to be there to the quail dies.

812
00:49:18,520 --> 00:49:22,400
Speaker 3: Their long lived, very long lived, and they actually mate,

813
00:49:23,160 --> 00:49:26,440
Speaker 3: the male and female mate in the eye and they

814
00:49:26,719 --> 00:49:33,120
Speaker 3: they they produce eggs. We have the listeners can go

815
00:49:33,160 --> 00:49:37,040
Speaker 3: to my website and see pictures. But the female eyeworm

816
00:49:37,200 --> 00:49:42,000
Speaker 3: is loaded with eggs. They're egg producing machine and so

817
00:49:42,000 --> 00:49:47,279
Speaker 3: so basically they release the eggs, they're they're swallowed, they're

818
00:49:47,320 --> 00:49:50,640
Speaker 3: going to the elementary track over, it starts all over

819
00:49:51,200 --> 00:49:54,319
Speaker 3: and so and what what is so amazing and we

820
00:49:54,320 --> 00:49:58,600
Speaker 3: were the first ones to discover this is you can

821
00:49:58,640 --> 00:50:03,520
Speaker 3: go from a relatively clean quail population, maybe with ten

822
00:50:03,520 --> 00:50:08,640
Speaker 3: percent infection, to a month or six weeks later you

823
00:50:08,680 --> 00:50:13,280
Speaker 3: have ninety five percent of your birds infected with eyeworms. Okay,

824
00:50:13,480 --> 00:50:19,200
Speaker 3: so it happens very fast. The epidemiology is extremely interesting.

825
00:50:19,880 --> 00:50:22,919
Speaker 5: Is that because they're a bird that travels in tight

826
00:50:23,000 --> 00:50:24,160
Speaker 5: little packs or.

827
00:50:24,360 --> 00:50:28,399
Speaker 3: We think that precipitates it, because you know there when

828
00:50:28,440 --> 00:50:32,880
Speaker 3: they are with covees, do they do? There are exposed

829
00:50:32,920 --> 00:50:35,759
Speaker 3: to each other every day. Now in the spring they

830
00:50:35,800 --> 00:50:38,680
Speaker 3: break up and pair off, okay, and so that's when

831
00:50:38,719 --> 00:50:44,680
Speaker 3: they're reproducing. But we're seeing that the infection with the

832
00:50:44,719 --> 00:50:51,359
Speaker 3: eyeworm can literally emerge into a zonotic event fast. And

833
00:50:51,400 --> 00:50:57,680
Speaker 3: so I as an environmental toxicologist studying this first, I said,

834
00:50:57,760 --> 00:51:00,920
Speaker 3: is it plausible that we could go from a ranch

835
00:51:01,000 --> 00:51:03,359
Speaker 3: to a county of infection in the matter of a

836
00:51:03,480 --> 00:51:07,600
Speaker 3: month or two. Answers, Yes, it can. It travels fast.

837
00:51:10,280 --> 00:51:13,200
Speaker 5: How do the quails end up dying? What kills them.

838
00:51:13,520 --> 00:51:21,799
Speaker 3: Okay, Wow, you guys are are aggressive. You want to know, Well, uh,

839
00:51:22,000 --> 00:51:29,000
Speaker 3: what we're seeing is we we we have we've had

840
00:51:29,440 --> 00:51:33,920
Speaker 3: FDA demonstration ranches where we've been testing the medicated feed

841
00:51:34,000 --> 00:51:41,120
Speaker 3: I invented. Okay, and the testimonials are amazing because one

842
00:51:42,440 --> 00:51:46,000
Speaker 3: man and wife live on their ranch and they used

843
00:51:46,000 --> 00:51:49,160
Speaker 3: to they wear my phone out calling me about quail

844
00:51:49,480 --> 00:51:53,280
Speaker 3: flying into their windows and house and killing themselves. Okay,

845
00:51:53,880 --> 00:51:59,920
Speaker 3: oh okay, because it affects vision. And so uh, once

846
00:52:00,120 --> 00:52:03,560
Speaker 3: we started using the medicated feed on this particular ranch

847
00:52:04,719 --> 00:52:08,400
Speaker 3: right at four years ago, not one quail has flown

848
00:52:08,440 --> 00:52:09,240
Speaker 3: into that house.

849
00:52:09,520 --> 00:52:11,800
Speaker 1: Oh I was driving them blind. Yeah, that's what we

850
00:52:12,280 --> 00:52:12,440
Speaker 1: ye know.

851
00:52:12,560 --> 00:52:19,240
Speaker 3: So yeah, and what you got to understand, Well, Steve,

852
00:52:19,280 --> 00:52:24,879
Speaker 3: I'm a quail hunter, I gather, I'm an outdoorsman, I'm

853
00:52:24,920 --> 00:52:29,520
Speaker 3: a rancher, and I'm a scientist. Okay, so I kind

854
00:52:29,520 --> 00:52:31,960
Speaker 3: of bring it all together. So I'm not just in

855
00:52:32,040 --> 00:52:38,279
Speaker 3: some lab pontificating. I actually understand quail, their biology, their

856
00:52:38,320 --> 00:52:43,720
Speaker 3: behavior and so on. And so I've seen Cooper's hawks

857
00:52:44,760 --> 00:52:48,520
Speaker 3: go after quail when a quail leaves the ground flying,

858
00:52:50,600 --> 00:52:54,120
Speaker 3: they got to be ninety nine percent on the go

859
00:52:54,560 --> 00:52:58,000
Speaker 3: or that Cooper's Hawk's probably gonna catch them. It's unbelievable,

860
00:52:58,320 --> 00:52:59,839
Speaker 3: dynamic a watch.

861
00:53:00,080 --> 00:53:02,279
Speaker 1: That's why he's hauling ass like that. You got him

862
00:53:02,480 --> 00:53:03,799
Speaker 1: and so and so.

863
00:53:04,200 --> 00:53:07,440
Speaker 3: What I'm trying to say is quail have got to

864
00:53:07,480 --> 00:53:12,719
Speaker 3: be Olympians athletes every day. So anything that suppresses their

865
00:53:12,920 --> 00:53:17,480
Speaker 3: energy or affects their keenness of sight and all, it

866
00:53:17,880 --> 00:53:22,720
Speaker 3: puts them at a disadvantage. And we know this now

867
00:53:23,200 --> 00:53:27,120
Speaker 3: because what we're seeing with our medicated feed. We just

868
00:53:27,160 --> 00:53:30,520
Speaker 3: had a major scientific paper come out at the International

869
00:53:30,600 --> 00:53:34,920
Speaker 3: Journal of Parasitology, Parasites and Wildlife. It's on my website

870
00:53:35,080 --> 00:53:38,080
Speaker 3: people can look. But what we've been able to see

871
00:53:38,600 --> 00:53:43,319
Speaker 3: is we've been able to increase our quail survivability with

872
00:53:43,400 --> 00:53:47,600
Speaker 3: the use of the medicated feed up to forty percent annually, okay,

873
00:53:47,840 --> 00:53:51,120
Speaker 3: which most people estimate less than ten percent will make

874
00:53:51,160 --> 00:53:55,840
Speaker 3: it to the next year. God, we're seeing dramatic increase

875
00:53:55,920 --> 00:53:59,440
Speaker 3: in survivability and a three hundred percent increase in the

876
00:53:59,480 --> 00:54:03,760
Speaker 3: quail population compared to untreated sites in the same area.

877
00:54:04,200 --> 00:54:08,960
Speaker 3: So the point is is we know these parasitic infections.

878
00:54:09,000 --> 00:54:13,480
Speaker 3: Now we've got the evidence that they are impairing survivability

879
00:54:13,680 --> 00:54:14,640
Speaker 3: of our wild quail.

880
00:54:14,760 --> 00:54:17,319
Speaker 1: Can you can you touch on that second parasite.

881
00:54:17,160 --> 00:54:21,440
Speaker 3: Yes, the second one that that we discovered and published

882
00:54:21,440 --> 00:54:24,080
Speaker 3: a lot of papers on. Now, it's called the sekl worm,

883
00:54:24,600 --> 00:54:27,880
Speaker 3: and it it lives in the secum of a wild quail.

884
00:54:27,920 --> 00:54:32,759
Speaker 3: The secum is assisting the quail and digesting all the

885
00:54:32,800 --> 00:54:37,240
Speaker 3: seeds it's eating. Okay, The Sicca worm lives and feeds there.

886
00:54:37,800 --> 00:54:40,200
Speaker 3: And we've seen secle worm and what is.

887
00:54:40,160 --> 00:54:41,680
Speaker 1: That thing them? I'm not familiar.

888
00:54:41,880 --> 00:54:46,680
Speaker 3: It's just part of the digestive tract associated with the

889
00:54:46,719 --> 00:54:50,319
Speaker 3: small intestine. Okay, But but again it's just it's it's

890
00:54:51,040 --> 00:54:56,880
Speaker 3: an area that is secreting certain digestive enzymes, particularly for

891
00:54:57,120 --> 00:55:03,280
Speaker 3: fiber digestion. All right, but these sickle worms can build

892
00:55:03,360 --> 00:55:07,840
Speaker 3: up to large quantities in the quail. Now, Corinne, you

893
00:55:07,880 --> 00:55:11,440
Speaker 3: asked what the our worm was. The Sicca worm is

894
00:55:11,560 --> 00:55:16,239
Speaker 3: more than ninety percent related to the round worm or

895
00:55:16,280 --> 00:55:22,200
Speaker 3: the scaret in your dog. It's essentially a scaret. And

896
00:55:22,239 --> 00:55:24,480
Speaker 3: I saw your two dogs earlier today. I bet you

897
00:55:24,480 --> 00:55:29,439
Speaker 3: you worm deworm your dogs regularly at least.

898
00:55:31,000 --> 00:55:35,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, she means to Yeah.

899
00:55:35,239 --> 00:55:38,359
Speaker 3: Well, I tell you these Sicca worms can build up,

900
00:55:38,840 --> 00:55:42,880
Speaker 3: we found seventeen hundred and one quail. Oh and the

901
00:55:42,920 --> 00:55:44,080
Speaker 3: poor quail.

902
00:55:44,680 --> 00:55:46,400
Speaker 4: It looked like from on the outside.

903
00:55:46,480 --> 00:55:49,640
Speaker 3: Well, the poor quail, you know, they have a well

904
00:55:49,680 --> 00:55:52,360
Speaker 3: developed breast muscle because when they come off the ground,

905
00:55:52,360 --> 00:55:55,440
Speaker 3: they explode and they're moving fifty miles an hour in

906
00:55:55,680 --> 00:55:59,000
Speaker 3: just a few seconds. Okay, h a dog pointed this

907
00:55:59,080 --> 00:56:03,600
Speaker 3: bird and the dog caught it. The bird couldn't fly,

908
00:56:04,600 --> 00:56:07,279
Speaker 3: and so they brought it to us, and it had

909
00:56:07,320 --> 00:56:11,400
Speaker 3: seventeen hundred sec worms. So I mean, and this particular

910
00:56:11,440 --> 00:56:16,200
Speaker 3: group was reporting what we call feather piles of kills

911
00:56:16,239 --> 00:56:19,280
Speaker 3: of quail kills on the ground. The predators were really

912
00:56:19,440 --> 00:56:23,160
Speaker 3: hitting them hard. They were very infected with seka worms.

913
00:56:23,640 --> 00:56:26,240
Speaker 3: So we think the secret worm is about as important

914
00:56:26,280 --> 00:56:34,120
Speaker 3: as the eyeworm. Okay, now we've learned something from our

915
00:56:34,160 --> 00:56:37,959
Speaker 3: brethren in Scotland and the United Kingdom where they hunt

916
00:56:38,000 --> 00:56:42,239
Speaker 3: the red grouse, very important game bird over there, and

917
00:56:42,400 --> 00:56:48,120
Speaker 3: the red grouse was suffering from dramatic population declines on

918
00:56:48,200 --> 00:56:54,640
Speaker 3: given years. And research showed that the red grouse suffered

919
00:56:54,640 --> 00:56:59,640
Speaker 3: from a worm and there seek them as well. Okay,

920
00:57:00,120 --> 00:57:03,400
Speaker 3: was a sick of worm and it caused the birds

921
00:57:03,440 --> 00:57:05,440
Speaker 3: not to be able to fly as fast because they

922
00:57:05,520 --> 00:57:10,359
Speaker 3: reduced energy from aerial predators. And believe it or not,

923
00:57:11,239 --> 00:57:17,240
Speaker 3: it caused the female grouse setting the eggs to emit.

924
00:57:17,760 --> 00:57:22,160
Speaker 3: Emit a smell that the foxes could key in on

925
00:57:22,640 --> 00:57:27,320
Speaker 3: and they were destroying all the nest. So so the

926
00:57:27,320 --> 00:57:32,160
Speaker 3: behavior of the red grouse by the scientific team in

927
00:57:32,480 --> 00:57:36,960
Speaker 3: the UK was studied. And you know, the red grouse

928
00:57:37,200 --> 00:57:42,080
Speaker 3: is eating, you know, a lot of fiber, so they

929
00:57:42,120 --> 00:57:44,920
Speaker 3: have to go get grit every day, all right, that's

930
00:57:45,000 --> 00:57:52,160
Speaker 3: part of their behavior. And so the Scottish scientists identified

931
00:57:52,200 --> 00:57:55,200
Speaker 3: where the grit piles were where the red grouse would go,

932
00:57:55,880 --> 00:57:58,600
Speaker 3: and they said, if we could simulate a grit pile

933
00:57:58,960 --> 00:58:01,320
Speaker 3: and put a drug in, maybe the grouse would eat it.

934
00:58:01,800 --> 00:58:05,200
Speaker 3: Well they did, and they were able to knock out

935
00:58:05,440 --> 00:58:09,840
Speaker 3: these infections, are suppress them and and the grouse. We're

936
00:58:09,840 --> 00:58:14,320
Speaker 3: not experiencing these kind of population crashes anymore. So and

937
00:58:14,400 --> 00:58:17,800
Speaker 3: I know this, know this team, and I've been on

938
00:58:18,120 --> 00:58:22,080
Speaker 3: a program with them both at a quail seminar. But anyway,

939
00:58:22,160 --> 00:58:26,880
Speaker 3: so we we had evidence that the UK and Scotland

940
00:58:26,920 --> 00:58:30,040
Speaker 3: could do this, but the United States Food and Drug

941
00:58:30,080 --> 00:58:36,440
Speaker 3: Administration doesn't register drug treatments for wild animals.

942
00:58:36,520 --> 00:58:39,080
Speaker 1: Okay, so kick you for a couple of hours. Yeah,

943
00:58:39,680 --> 00:58:41,080
Speaker 1: I want to get into this. Okay, I got a

944
00:58:41,080 --> 00:58:42,480
Speaker 1: couple of back up. I got a back up on

945
00:58:42,520 --> 00:58:46,280
Speaker 1: a couple of things I never associated. I never thought

946
00:58:46,280 --> 00:58:52,120
Speaker 1: about high fiber with grit. Does a does a hawk? Okay,

947
00:58:52,160 --> 00:58:55,040
Speaker 1: does a redtail hawk? Does he need grit? Does he

948
00:58:55,080 --> 00:58:55,920
Speaker 1: ever go get grit?

949
00:58:56,320 --> 00:58:59,800
Speaker 3: He's mainly a meat eater. Yeah, to my knowledge, red

950
00:58:59,840 --> 00:59:03,400
Speaker 3: tae hawks do not go get grit. I've never seen one.

951
00:59:03,800 --> 00:59:05,960
Speaker 1: Do they have a gizzard though? They gotta have a gizzard, right?

952
00:59:08,120 --> 00:59:10,040
Speaker 1: Or does the gizzard only function if it has a grit,

953
00:59:10,120 --> 00:59:11,640
Speaker 1: has a grit in it?

954
00:59:11,720 --> 00:59:12,160
Speaker 3: The latter?

955
00:59:12,800 --> 00:59:15,000
Speaker 1: Okay, So the gizzard is a grit contracted part.

956
00:59:15,080 --> 00:59:19,040
Speaker 3: The gizzard is part of species of birds that are

957
00:59:19,040 --> 00:59:23,720
Speaker 3: eating grains seeds. The gizzard is a grinding machine, so

958
00:59:23,760 --> 00:59:30,120
Speaker 3: to speak, and it requires abrasive substrate like rocks grit. Okay,

959
00:59:30,640 --> 00:59:37,760
Speaker 3: So these red grass and Scotland are eating a lot

960
00:59:37,800 --> 00:59:39,439
Speaker 3: of fiber and they have to go to these grit

961
00:59:39,480 --> 00:59:40,959
Speaker 3: piles every day every day.

962
00:59:41,200 --> 00:59:43,560
Speaker 1: You know, my kids the reason I'm asking about this,

963
00:59:43,680 --> 00:59:48,080
Speaker 1: My kids have these pet pigeons. They use a lot

964
00:59:48,080 --> 00:59:50,080
Speaker 1: of grit, and what they do is they get all

965
00:59:50,120 --> 00:59:52,720
Speaker 1: the grit from the shingles on the roof.

966
00:59:52,960 --> 00:59:54,760
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I believe it.

967
00:59:54,960 --> 00:59:56,480
Speaker 1: That could be a toxicology problem.

968
00:59:56,480 --> 01:00:01,240
Speaker 3: That could be a toxic cology problem. You got that right, Yeah.

969
01:00:00,800 --> 01:00:03,280
Speaker 5: Before you jump into like how you got the drug

970
01:00:03,320 --> 01:00:07,520
Speaker 5: out there, you were doing all your research on quail

971
01:00:07,560 --> 01:00:10,960
Speaker 5: in West Texas. Did you find that those parasites were

972
01:00:10,960 --> 01:00:14,480
Speaker 5: a problem with quail in other parts of the country also.

973
01:00:14,320 --> 01:00:15,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, South Calina. Yes.

974
01:00:16,000 --> 01:00:22,560
Speaker 3: Well, what this has been very research intensive and as

975
01:00:22,600 --> 01:00:26,360
Speaker 3: far as what I'm telling you now is we had

976
01:00:26,480 --> 01:00:29,800
Speaker 3: absolutely no clue about this back in twenty twelve, okay,

977
01:00:30,080 --> 01:00:33,840
Speaker 3: when we first opened the book and said, where do

978
01:00:33,920 --> 01:00:38,520
Speaker 3: we go with this thing? And so we started looking

979
01:00:39,280 --> 01:00:42,680
Speaker 3: across the border in New Mexico and we actually found

980
01:00:42,720 --> 01:00:45,120
Speaker 3: it in the blue quail, the scale quail, all right,

981
01:00:45,400 --> 01:00:49,680
Speaker 3: So there is some interface there and believe it or not,

982
01:00:50,240 --> 01:00:53,320
Speaker 3: And we've published a paper on this. We've seen it

983
01:00:53,360 --> 01:00:56,440
Speaker 3: in the prairie chicken, all right. So they are the

984
01:00:56,480 --> 01:01:00,640
Speaker 3: same genus and species as in the prairie chicken. And

985
01:01:00,960 --> 01:01:03,560
Speaker 3: we've now I've got a graduate student working on this.

986
01:01:04,000 --> 01:01:07,120
Speaker 3: We now see it in a several species of songbirds

987
01:01:07,280 --> 01:01:10,760
Speaker 3: the eye worm, not the SEQ worm, the eyeworm. So

988
01:01:11,200 --> 01:01:17,880
Speaker 3: this thing could be continental. We've just had samples submitted

989
01:01:17,920 --> 01:01:23,240
Speaker 3: to us from Montana in sharp tailed grouse and the

990
01:01:23,280 --> 01:01:28,200
Speaker 3: gray partridge. You got it here, it's in Montana. And

991
01:01:28,280 --> 01:01:33,920
Speaker 3: I'm telling you an eyeworm is dangerous. They are dangerous

992
01:01:33,680 --> 01:01:34,800
Speaker 3: in the I birth.

993
01:01:34,760 --> 01:01:37,240
Speaker 1: And that could be what that could be those those

994
01:01:37,280 --> 01:01:41,920
Speaker 1: same species of worms, the eye and seek them seem

995
01:01:42,040 --> 01:01:45,720
Speaker 1: yes that those worms could be in bob we quail

996
01:01:45,760 --> 01:01:47,680
Speaker 1: in Kentucky. They could be in bob We quail in

997
01:01:47,680 --> 01:01:48,480
Speaker 1: South Carolina.

998
01:01:49,160 --> 01:01:52,920
Speaker 3: Yes, And then we're this thing. This whole thing is

999
01:01:52,960 --> 01:01:58,040
Speaker 3: expanding now. And we've had so many people reaching out

1000
01:01:58,080 --> 01:02:05,880
Speaker 3: to us because wildlife disease investigation and wildlife management is

1001
01:02:06,960 --> 01:02:11,760
Speaker 3: just pretty much been ignored, okay, and people just think

1002
01:02:11,840 --> 01:02:15,080
Speaker 3: that if you've got great habitat and good rainfall, you'll

1003
01:02:15,160 --> 01:02:18,840
Speaker 3: just have quail. Well that's not true. That's kind of true.

1004
01:02:19,000 --> 01:02:21,360
Speaker 3: In certain years you will. But I take it back

1005
01:02:21,400 --> 01:02:24,920
Speaker 3: to twenty ten. On one of the top ranches for

1006
01:02:25,040 --> 01:02:28,200
Speaker 3: quail management in the state of Texas won all the awards,

1007
01:02:28,360 --> 01:02:33,480
Speaker 3: he lost all his quail, all right, So that hypothesis

1008
01:02:33,960 --> 01:02:37,920
Speaker 3: of we got a good habitat and some rainfall, we're

1009
01:02:37,920 --> 01:02:40,439
Speaker 3: gonna have a lot of quail. That doesn't necessarily work

1010
01:02:40,880 --> 01:02:46,560
Speaker 3: and so, but what is really awesome is that since

1011
01:02:46,640 --> 01:02:50,840
Speaker 3: we introduced the medicated feet on that particular wrench, he

1012
01:02:50,880 --> 01:02:55,120
Speaker 3: hasn't seen a crash in years. And that's another thing.

1013
01:02:55,920 --> 01:03:00,880
Speaker 3: We've got several of these FDA approved demonstration ranches and

1014
01:03:00,920 --> 01:03:07,680
Speaker 3: we've been sustaining huntable quail populations while the neighbors aren't hunting.

1015
01:03:08,280 --> 01:03:10,080
Speaker 5: You got to give the neighbors some of that stuff.

1016
01:03:10,280 --> 01:03:13,760
Speaker 3: Well, I kind of you can't imagine what I had

1017
01:03:13,760 --> 01:03:16,160
Speaker 3: to go through even to get a ranch approved for

1018
01:03:16,320 --> 01:03:17,440
Speaker 3: demonstration site.

1019
01:03:18,040 --> 01:03:21,240
Speaker 1: Let's let's jump into that talk about the FDA. Is

1020
01:03:21,280 --> 01:03:24,320
Speaker 1: there reluctance that they don't do that? Is their reluctance

1021
01:03:24,360 --> 01:03:28,760
Speaker 1: that that by approving wildlife drugs there's a Pandora's box

1022
01:03:28,840 --> 01:03:30,760
Speaker 1: and unforeseen consequences.

1023
01:03:31,080 --> 01:03:36,919
Speaker 3: Well, first of all, I've had a lot of experience

1024
01:03:37,240 --> 01:03:42,000
Speaker 3: at EPA, being the past chairman of the Scientific Advisory

1025
01:03:42,000 --> 01:03:47,200
Speaker 3: Panel for Implementation of the Federal Insecticide, Fungicide and Redenticide Act.

1026
01:03:48,760 --> 01:03:53,560
Speaker 3: I know a lot about EPA regulatory mandates. I did

1027
01:03:53,640 --> 01:03:55,960
Speaker 3: not know what I was getting into with the United

1028
01:03:56,000 --> 01:04:00,240
Speaker 3: States Food and Drug Administration. They are very tough at

1029
01:04:00,280 --> 01:04:11,120
Speaker 3: evaluating registration of drugs. I started in approximately twenty thirteen, fourteen,

1030
01:04:11,680 --> 01:04:18,640
Speaker 3: developing preliminary data and communication with the FDA about my

1031
01:04:18,840 --> 01:04:23,360
Speaker 3: interest in this whole parasitic disease issue and a treatment.

1032
01:04:24,040 --> 01:04:28,800
Speaker 3: And we had developed a dialogue and they said it

1033
01:04:28,840 --> 01:04:36,640
Speaker 3: seems to make sense. And historically FDA they just don't

1034
01:04:36,680 --> 01:04:42,800
Speaker 3: register drugs for the natural habitat. Okay. So basically what

1035
01:04:42,960 --> 01:04:45,360
Speaker 3: we got done, and I will tell you what we

1036
01:04:45,440 --> 01:04:48,800
Speaker 3: got done. It's not a vaccine. It's a medicated feed

1037
01:04:48,920 --> 01:04:57,360
Speaker 3: drug treatment. That is the first medicated feed treatment FDA's

1038
01:04:57,640 --> 01:05:04,160
Speaker 3: ever registered for a wildlife species and the natural habitat

1039
01:05:04,800 --> 01:05:09,400
Speaker 3: that will be commercially available. Okay, it's first, and they

1040
01:05:09,480 --> 01:05:12,600
Speaker 3: worked with me for many years to get that done.

1041
01:05:12,800 --> 01:05:16,520
Speaker 3: The product now is called quail Guard. But backing up

1042
01:05:16,720 --> 01:05:21,600
Speaker 3: when we got started, it was in approximately twenty fifteen.

1043
01:05:21,840 --> 01:05:24,600
Speaker 3: Ain't got to understand, I'm not a drug company. I'm

1044
01:05:24,640 --> 01:05:29,080
Speaker 3: just a professor at a university. And so I submitted

1045
01:05:29,080 --> 01:05:31,400
Speaker 3: these all these materials and I had I thought I

1046
01:05:31,400 --> 01:05:35,280
Speaker 3: had some pretty good, pretty interesting data that I knew

1047
01:05:35,320 --> 01:05:38,960
Speaker 3: about a wild quail I knew about their behavior because

1048
01:05:39,000 --> 01:05:41,320
Speaker 3: I have a ranch and I love my quail. And

1049
01:05:41,400 --> 01:05:45,560
Speaker 3: so we ultimately figured out we could get them to

1050
01:05:45,640 --> 01:05:54,480
Speaker 3: come into an enclosure with some openings and feed out

1051
01:05:54,520 --> 01:05:59,280
Speaker 3: of a simulated chicken trough a wild quail covey. We

1052
01:05:59,360 --> 01:06:02,000
Speaker 3: will do that. And it took us a long time

1053
01:06:02,000 --> 01:06:02,960
Speaker 3: to figure that out.

1054
01:06:03,600 --> 01:06:06,280
Speaker 1: And Uh, why do they need to do that rather

1055
01:06:06,320 --> 01:06:07,360
Speaker 1: than you just scattering it?

1056
01:06:07,400 --> 01:06:10,480
Speaker 3: Because because FDA didn't want just scattered in out at

1057
01:06:10,520 --> 01:06:14,440
Speaker 3: that time, they wanted us to target the wild quail.

1058
01:06:14,480 --> 01:06:17,240
Speaker 1: Understood, And because this was still in the testing face,

1059
01:06:17,280 --> 01:06:19,600
Speaker 1: it was still in the test and everything running around heat.

1060
01:06:19,640 --> 01:06:24,720
Speaker 3: And so it was my son, Ronnie Kendall that helped

1061
01:06:24,720 --> 01:06:28,680
Speaker 3: me figure this out. With what size enclosures would these

1062
01:06:28,680 --> 01:06:32,000
Speaker 3: wild quail come into. We started out Steve with a

1063
01:06:32,040 --> 01:06:35,240
Speaker 3: dog kennel eight by eight eight foot by eight foot,

1064
01:06:35,480 --> 01:06:37,400
Speaker 3: and we had holes in it and we baited the

1065
01:06:37,480 --> 01:06:40,800
Speaker 3: quail in so they would come in the covey wood

1066
01:06:40,800 --> 01:06:43,439
Speaker 3: and feed out of a trough and we could offer

1067
01:06:43,480 --> 01:06:44,600
Speaker 3: the medicated.

1068
01:06:44,120 --> 01:06:46,480
Speaker 1: Feed like a crab trap, like a like a trask

1069
01:06:46,480 --> 01:06:47,320
Speaker 1: got a little open and.

1070
01:06:47,520 --> 01:06:51,800
Speaker 3: Uh, and Ronnie kept working and we went down to

1071
01:06:51,840 --> 01:06:54,320
Speaker 3: six feet by six feet. Then we went to four

1072
01:06:54,360 --> 01:06:58,520
Speaker 3: feet by four feet, and now he's got a technology

1073
01:06:58,560 --> 01:07:02,280
Speaker 3: called quail Safe and it's a third the size of

1074
01:07:02,320 --> 01:07:05,000
Speaker 3: your table here. It's you could put it in the

1075
01:07:05,040 --> 01:07:09,040
Speaker 3: back of your truck. And it's amazing how the quail

1076
01:07:09,080 --> 01:07:11,520
Speaker 3: will come in and feed and we can target the

1077
01:07:11,520 --> 01:07:12,160
Speaker 3: wild quail.

1078
01:07:12,240 --> 01:07:15,160
Speaker 4: But are they over medicating themselves if they're eating too

1079
01:07:15,240 --> 01:07:15,760
Speaker 4: much feed?

1080
01:07:15,960 --> 01:07:22,080
Speaker 3: No, we had to go when y'all are interesting, I

1081
01:07:22,120 --> 01:07:25,560
Speaker 3: mean I think I think you find this interesting. I

1082
01:07:25,640 --> 01:07:29,600
Speaker 3: love this suff but Coarin. We started out I had

1083
01:07:29,640 --> 01:07:32,360
Speaker 3: to figure out could I even treat a bird in

1084
01:07:32,360 --> 01:07:35,320
Speaker 3: the while in the natural habitat FDA wanted to know

1085
01:07:35,400 --> 01:07:39,400
Speaker 3: that how would we do this? And so I submitted

1086
01:07:39,440 --> 01:07:44,720
Speaker 3: all this data and in September of twenty fifteen, I

1087
01:07:44,760 --> 01:07:49,320
Speaker 3: was invited to FDA headquarters for formal meetings and uh.

1088
01:07:49,800 --> 01:07:52,600
Speaker 1: Can I I got a question about leading up to that.

1089
01:07:53,600 --> 01:07:57,040
Speaker 1: At first, do you just find the address online? And like,

1090
01:07:57,120 --> 01:08:01,280
Speaker 1: dear FDA, that kind of it started out, I have

1091
01:08:01,360 --> 01:08:02,840
Speaker 1: an interesting quail.

1092
01:08:03,520 --> 01:08:06,960
Speaker 3: It started out we did a lot of research and

1093
01:08:07,080 --> 01:08:10,800
Speaker 3: about who who may be willing to engage us on

1094
01:08:10,840 --> 01:08:11,320
Speaker 3: this and.

1095
01:08:11,600 --> 01:08:13,360
Speaker 1: Were you were trying to find I was trying to

1096
01:08:14,360 --> 01:08:15,720
Speaker 1: yeah and uh.

1097
01:08:16,200 --> 01:08:19,960
Speaker 3: And it was the Office of Minor Use and Minor Species.

1098
01:08:20,240 --> 01:08:22,920
Speaker 3: And I said that looked to me that they might

1099
01:08:23,000 --> 01:08:27,920
Speaker 3: be Yeah. I mean this was like, you know, just

1100
01:08:28,000 --> 01:08:30,480
Speaker 3: pull up your boots and go do it. You know,

1101
01:08:30,000 --> 01:08:33,559
Speaker 3: I had. I had worked with the EPA extensively, but

1102
01:08:33,640 --> 01:08:37,400
Speaker 3: not with FDA. And so I was brought to this meeting.

1103
01:08:38,920 --> 01:08:41,200
Speaker 3: And it wasn't a day of meetings, it was a week.

1104
01:08:42,080 --> 01:08:43,599
Speaker 1: This is when you finally got their attention.

1105
01:08:44,280 --> 01:08:47,519
Speaker 3: I had their attention then, and so my sponsoring office

1106
01:08:49,479 --> 01:08:52,759
Speaker 3: told me to be prepared for a twenty minute seminar

1107
01:08:53,479 --> 01:08:58,040
Speaker 3: and to show them what we were going to do. Okay,

1108
01:08:58,080 --> 01:09:00,920
Speaker 3: So I had all these meetings during this week, and

1109
01:09:01,000 --> 01:09:04,240
Speaker 3: on the final day, on Friday morning, I was told

1110
01:09:04,560 --> 01:09:08,320
Speaker 3: that we're going to have a meeting starting first thing,

1111
01:09:09,400 --> 01:09:11,960
Speaker 3: and you're going to walk into a big room of

1112
01:09:12,080 --> 01:09:15,040
Speaker 3: scientists and they're going to talk to you about this.

1113
01:09:15,960 --> 01:09:19,640
Speaker 3: And from this meeting, they will even either give you

1114
01:09:19,680 --> 01:09:22,240
Speaker 3: a thumbs up that we will go ahead for a

1115
01:09:22,280 --> 01:09:26,519
Speaker 3: registration pursuit, or they'll give you a thumbs down. And

1116
01:09:26,600 --> 01:09:30,679
Speaker 3: so when they opened those two doors, they were close

1117
01:09:30,720 --> 01:09:34,120
Speaker 3: to seventy people in that room. Really, yes, from what

1118
01:09:34,280 --> 01:09:44,800
Speaker 3: disciplines environmental science, toxicology, statistics, immunology, they had it. It

1119
01:09:44,840 --> 01:09:47,560
Speaker 3: was like a whole room and I'll never forget it.

1120
01:09:47,680 --> 01:09:50,200
Speaker 1: They can just attack your stuff from any angle.

1121
01:09:50,080 --> 01:09:53,320
Speaker 3: From any angle, and so I mean I had to

1122
01:09:53,360 --> 01:09:57,280
Speaker 3: swallow pretty deep. And I sat down at the table

1123
01:09:57,360 --> 01:10:02,559
Speaker 3: with my sponsoring office, the director and project officer, who

1124
01:10:02,680 --> 01:10:06,519
Speaker 3: was terrific, and they both just leaned over and they

1125
01:10:06,600 --> 01:10:08,240
Speaker 3: just said, get up there and just tell them what

1126
01:10:08,280 --> 01:10:11,640
Speaker 3: you want to do. And I literally I went to

1127
01:10:11,680 --> 01:10:13,800
Speaker 3: the front of the room. They were all very attentive,

1128
01:10:14,640 --> 01:10:17,960
Speaker 3: and I gave a twenty minute seminar and I showed

1129
01:10:17,960 --> 01:10:21,320
Speaker 3: them the wild quail. I showed them, you know what

1130
01:10:21,360 --> 01:10:24,960
Speaker 3: these worms looked like. I showed them the dog kennel

1131
01:10:25,280 --> 01:10:27,840
Speaker 3: and the quail. I had videos of the quail coming

1132
01:10:27,880 --> 01:10:32,920
Speaker 3: in and I explained how we could develop a feed

1133
01:10:33,439 --> 01:10:37,200
Speaker 3: the quail would eat it, and we had early evidence

1134
01:10:37,520 --> 01:10:41,360
Speaker 3: that we could kill the parasites. And you know, that

1135
01:10:41,560 --> 01:10:42,480
Speaker 3: was a three.

1136
01:10:42,439 --> 01:10:45,599
Speaker 1: Hour meeting, not twenty minutes, not twenty minutes.

1137
01:10:45,720 --> 01:10:49,280
Speaker 3: When I got through with my presentation, they began to

1138
01:10:49,360 --> 01:10:55,439
Speaker 3: ask me questions, very respectful questions and about you know,

1139
01:10:55,439 --> 01:10:58,160
Speaker 3: about how to how they would do this and whatever.

1140
01:11:00,920 --> 01:11:03,000
Speaker 3: I answered the questions. I didn't try to, you know,

1141
01:11:03,040 --> 01:11:04,920
Speaker 3: I just I was as straight as I could be.

1142
01:11:05,880 --> 01:11:09,800
Speaker 3: And so the sponsoring office took me back after it

1143
01:11:10,240 --> 01:11:14,599
Speaker 3: was lunchtime then and the director then she since has retired,

1144
01:11:14,640 --> 01:11:17,760
Speaker 3: but she said, she said, that went really well. There

1145
01:11:17,840 --> 01:11:22,920
Speaker 3: wasn't one condescending comment, not one in three hours. And

1146
01:11:22,960 --> 01:11:27,400
Speaker 3: they could have ripped me apart. There was There were

1147
01:11:27,439 --> 01:11:31,000
Speaker 3: so many statisticians on the left wall. I mean it

1148
01:11:31,120 --> 01:11:34,120
Speaker 3: was like a dozen ten of them. The statisticians could

1149
01:11:34,120 --> 01:11:38,559
Speaker 3: have just gone into that, and the toxicologists, the Human

1150
01:11:39,000 --> 01:11:42,679
Speaker 3: Food Safety Division people were there and they were all

1151
01:11:42,760 --> 01:11:46,280
Speaker 3: just discussing all the components. I was going to have

1152
01:11:46,320 --> 01:11:49,760
Speaker 3: to deal with corinn. I was going to have to

1153
01:11:49,800 --> 01:11:55,719
Speaker 3: determine safety. I was going to have to determine environmental issues.

1154
01:11:55,760 --> 01:11:58,720
Speaker 3: I was going to have to determine how quickly the

1155
01:11:58,840 --> 01:12:01,920
Speaker 3: drug would move itself from the body of the quail

1156
01:12:01,960 --> 01:12:04,840
Speaker 3: if a human ate it. Uh So I had to

1157
01:12:05,000 --> 01:12:07,559
Speaker 3: I had to, you know, they they were all talking

1158
01:12:08,160 --> 01:12:12,760
Speaker 3: and so and so. That was September, and it took

1159
01:12:12,800 --> 01:12:16,320
Speaker 3: about till December and I got a letter through my

1160
01:12:16,360 --> 01:12:19,800
Speaker 3: sponsor in office and they said, doctor Kendall here's what

1161
01:12:19,840 --> 01:12:22,160
Speaker 3: you're going to have to do. And when I read

1162
01:12:22,200 --> 01:12:25,559
Speaker 3: that letter, I took a deep breath and says, Wow,

1163
01:12:25,840 --> 01:12:28,839
Speaker 3: that's massive amount of work. Massive.

1164
01:12:29,439 --> 01:12:32,280
Speaker 5: Maybe I missed this, but were they all interested in

1165
01:12:32,320 --> 01:12:36,360
Speaker 5: you qualifying the value of having quail on the ground.

1166
01:12:36,520 --> 01:12:40,160
Speaker 3: They didn't. They didn't debate it. They I explained it,

1167
01:12:40,760 --> 01:12:46,280
Speaker 3: and they got it. They got it. And and not

1168
01:12:46,360 --> 01:12:50,280
Speaker 3: only is a bob white quail the canary of the prairie,

1169
01:12:51,120 --> 01:12:54,080
Speaker 3: so to speak, as an indicator species, they're a big

1170
01:12:54,120 --> 01:12:58,240
Speaker 3: time economic bird. People come from all over the world

1171
01:12:58,400 --> 01:13:03,599
Speaker 3: hunt wild quail and Texas and there's a big real

1172
01:13:03,680 --> 01:13:06,120
Speaker 3: estate firm in love Att, Texas, where I'm from, and

1173
01:13:06,120 --> 01:13:10,160
Speaker 3: they sell big ranches, you know. And I gave a

1174
01:13:10,200 --> 01:13:14,919
Speaker 3: talk at a sportsman's group and one of the owners

1175
01:13:15,240 --> 01:13:18,120
Speaker 3: of that company stood up and he said, what he's

1176
01:13:18,160 --> 01:13:21,880
Speaker 3: saying is the truth. He's He said, if you got

1177
01:13:21,880 --> 01:13:24,280
Speaker 3: a lot of wild quail in your property, I can

1178
01:13:24,320 --> 01:13:26,400
Speaker 3: probably sell it faster than if you had on oil.

1179
01:13:26,439 --> 01:13:30,400
Speaker 3: Well I'm dead, sare He said it right in front

1180
01:13:30,400 --> 01:13:33,960
Speaker 3: of the whole whole crowd. This wild quail, this wild

1181
01:13:34,000 --> 01:13:35,960
Speaker 3: quail thing is a big deal.

1182
01:13:38,760 --> 01:13:40,720
Speaker 1: What about what about human What did you find out

1183
01:13:40,720 --> 01:13:44,439
Speaker 1: about human safety. Like I shoot a quail that's got

1184
01:13:44,560 --> 01:13:47,479
Speaker 1: h you know, he's got a mouthful of stuff, and

1185
01:13:47,520 --> 01:13:49,679
Speaker 1: I go clean out his gizzard and I eat his gizzard,

1186
01:13:49,720 --> 01:13:52,640
Speaker 1: and I eat his breast meat and his thighs. What

1187
01:13:52,680 --> 01:13:56,360
Speaker 1: happens to me? Well, in my in my dea worm, you're.

1188
01:13:56,240 --> 01:14:01,320
Speaker 3: Good, You're good. We uh. All of this was exploratory,

1189
01:14:01,560 --> 01:14:05,000
Speaker 3: and it drew every bit of experience I had. But

1190
01:14:05,800 --> 01:14:11,200
Speaker 3: we started investigating the drug from bendzol, and it's it's

1191
01:14:11,240 --> 01:14:15,360
Speaker 3: been it's been used on a variety of domestic animals,

1192
01:14:15,880 --> 01:14:19,320
Speaker 3: and so excuse me, but we had to come up

1193
01:14:19,360 --> 01:14:24,920
Speaker 3: with an effective concentration. And what FDA made me do

1194
01:14:25,000 --> 01:14:28,479
Speaker 3: once I had some early testing i'd done with them

1195
01:14:28,520 --> 01:14:32,120
Speaker 3: bends zol, and we saw it was pretty safe and

1196
01:14:32,360 --> 01:14:35,280
Speaker 3: we knew it would kill those worms, and so we

1197
01:14:35,400 --> 01:14:38,800
Speaker 3: had to run at the request of FDA. And you understand,

1198
01:14:39,160 --> 01:14:44,240
Speaker 3: everything is so formal with FDA. You have to have

1199
01:14:44,520 --> 01:14:48,800
Speaker 3: a good laboratory practice certification for your lab. So I

1200
01:14:48,840 --> 01:14:52,160
Speaker 3: had to have what we called the gop officer, so

1201
01:14:52,240 --> 01:14:55,599
Speaker 3: they come in and evaluate you and check your data

1202
01:14:56,320 --> 01:15:00,000
Speaker 3: and and everything we did was under strict protocols approved

1203
01:15:00,200 --> 01:15:06,040
Speaker 3: by FDA. So you just can't imagine a lot of

1204
01:15:06,040 --> 01:15:10,120
Speaker 3: our reports would be massive like that, maybe a thousand

1205
01:15:10,200 --> 01:15:14,639
Speaker 3: pages of data. They check everything, They don't just skip around,

1206
01:15:14,920 --> 01:15:19,160
Speaker 3: They check everything, and so it was quite a process,

1207
01:15:19,560 --> 01:15:23,599
Speaker 3: like we had to do safety and we had to

1208
01:15:23,640 --> 01:15:27,000
Speaker 3: triple the estimated dose and triple the time frame of

1209
01:15:27,080 --> 01:15:31,000
Speaker 3: exposure to look for any pathological issues.

1210
01:15:30,800 --> 01:15:31,960
Speaker 1: Or to check the extremes.

1211
01:15:32,280 --> 01:15:35,519
Speaker 3: Check the extremes, and there were none. We ran this

1212
01:15:36,000 --> 01:15:39,240
Speaker 3: very nice experiment on all of that. Well, it was

1213
01:15:39,280 --> 01:15:44,360
Speaker 3: really cool. Steve, one of my students of PhD students,

1214
01:15:44,960 --> 01:15:49,040
Speaker 3: was terrific chemist and it's very sophisticated chemistry to look

1215
01:15:49,360 --> 01:15:52,439
Speaker 3: not only at the parent drug, but the what we

1216
01:15:52,520 --> 01:15:57,439
Speaker 3: call them metabolites, okay, the breakdown drug products. So FDA

1217
01:15:57,600 --> 01:16:02,280
Speaker 3: gave us We had to develop techniques to look at

1218
01:16:02,320 --> 01:16:05,920
Speaker 3: the liver of the quail and see how the breakdown

1219
01:16:06,000 --> 01:16:08,120
Speaker 3: products were clearing the liver and so on. This is

1220
01:16:08,160 --> 01:16:12,640
Speaker 3: all published and but oh, it took us forever to

1221
01:16:12,720 --> 01:16:17,720
Speaker 3: get the drug validation down and it required a lot

1222
01:16:17,760 --> 01:16:21,360
Speaker 3: of collaboration with our School of Pharmacy up at Amarillo, Texas.

1223
01:16:21,880 --> 01:16:24,080
Speaker 3: They had the right instrument and we're willing to work

1224
01:16:24,120 --> 01:16:27,360
Speaker 3: with us. So we had to GOLP certify that lab

1225
01:16:27,720 --> 01:16:30,240
Speaker 3: and uh and but we got you know, we got

1226
01:16:30,240 --> 01:16:33,560
Speaker 3: it done. But what we showed is the drug clears

1227
01:16:34,000 --> 01:16:39,839
Speaker 3: within hours after the birds were removed. Okay, so FDA

1228
01:16:40,680 --> 01:16:44,720
Speaker 3: now has designated you don't even need a day of

1229
01:16:46,760 --> 01:16:50,960
Speaker 3: drug clearance. It clears within hours. So it's very very

1230
01:16:51,040 --> 01:16:54,479
Speaker 3: safe to the birds and it clears very quickly.

1231
01:16:54,760 --> 01:16:59,280
Speaker 1: So you could get you you would get a feeder.

1232
01:16:59,600 --> 01:17:04,760
Speaker 1: Let's say you assuming you're not going to broadcast the seed, right,

1233
01:17:05,000 --> 01:17:07,000
Speaker 1: you could get a feeder and run a regular old

1234
01:17:07,160 --> 01:17:09,400
Speaker 1: feed in it, but you don't need to have treated

1235
01:17:09,439 --> 01:17:11,760
Speaker 1: exactly and get the quail where you got. You got

1236
01:17:11,760 --> 01:17:14,240
Speaker 1: a bunch of these out and your cobes are using them,

1237
01:17:15,000 --> 01:17:18,200
Speaker 1: and then on treatment time you come in and put

1238
01:17:18,200 --> 01:17:21,880
Speaker 1: the treated feed in, let it cycle for whatever amount

1239
01:17:21,880 --> 01:17:24,799
Speaker 1: of time and then shut the thing down or continue

1240
01:17:24,880 --> 01:17:26,559
Speaker 1: back to this regular feed inside there.

1241
01:17:26,840 --> 01:17:29,720
Speaker 3: Steve, that's terrific. That's exactly what we do here.

1242
01:17:29,840 --> 01:17:31,760
Speaker 1: That brody, so kick an ass.

1243
01:17:32,200 --> 01:17:33,960
Speaker 3: You guys are are awesome.

1244
01:17:34,000 --> 01:17:35,120
Speaker 1: Then I started drug.

1245
01:17:34,960 --> 01:17:40,160
Speaker 3: Up so so uh uh we do uh assist the

1246
01:17:40,240 --> 01:17:43,280
Speaker 3: quail with with a four to five feed with without

1247
01:17:43,280 --> 01:17:44,479
Speaker 3: the medication.

1248
01:17:44,920 --> 01:17:47,360
Speaker 1: And to get them coming to the game.

1249
01:17:48,120 --> 01:17:53,240
Speaker 3: But what's cool is my son, Ronnie, we have this

1250
01:17:53,240 --> 01:17:57,439
Speaker 3: this technology called quail Safe and but he's developed an

1251
01:17:57,439 --> 01:18:03,160
Speaker 3: electronic Bob White quail call of their covey call. Got it, Okay,

1252
01:18:03,439 --> 01:18:10,000
Speaker 3: now I could do that for you please. I've heard

1253
01:18:10,000 --> 01:18:15,120
Speaker 3: about it. Quail my mouse really dry, I gotta get,

1254
01:18:15,160 --> 01:18:18,000
Speaker 3: I gotta get. That's good, though, but that's kind of

1255
01:18:18,000 --> 01:18:19,840
Speaker 3: what it sounds like, I'm sure.

1256
01:18:19,880 --> 01:18:21,240
Speaker 1: And he puts that out by the feeder.

1257
01:18:21,320 --> 01:18:24,519
Speaker 3: It's an electronic call. And believe it or not, when

1258
01:18:24,560 --> 01:18:30,400
Speaker 3: these covees hear that, they'll come from hundreds of yards away,

1259
01:18:30,920 --> 01:18:33,719
Speaker 3: and you can when you when they know that feed

1260
01:18:33,880 --> 01:18:35,960
Speaker 3: is there, they come by and check it once in

1261
01:18:36,000 --> 01:18:41,559
Speaker 3: a while. It's amazing. That's their behavioral ecology. That we

1262
01:18:41,760 --> 01:18:45,599
Speaker 3: understood the critical component of the cuvey call, and they

1263
01:18:45,640 --> 01:18:49,320
Speaker 3: will come from so far to investigate that. And then

1264
01:18:49,360 --> 01:18:52,599
Speaker 3: once they find that feed, you know, that's like a

1265
01:18:52,640 --> 01:18:57,640
Speaker 3: free lunch. And and this does not domesticate them whatsoever.

1266
01:18:57,840 --> 01:19:01,040
Speaker 3: These are wild birds and we can attest to that

1267
01:19:01,520 --> 01:19:04,799
Speaker 3: by you know, when we hunt I mean these things.

1268
01:19:05,000 --> 01:19:07,400
Speaker 3: I know what a wild quail looks like when we

1269
01:19:07,520 --> 01:19:11,440
Speaker 3: hunt them, and so so it's it's really worked beautifully.

1270
01:19:11,800 --> 01:19:15,479
Speaker 3: The electronic call gives it so much more uh pull

1271
01:19:15,640 --> 01:19:19,960
Speaker 3: of the birds. And like I said, once once the

1272
01:19:20,360 --> 01:19:24,759
Speaker 3: covees start using it, then the summer comes, then early

1273
01:19:24,840 --> 01:19:29,759
Speaker 3: fall and the hen brings the brood in the little birds, okay,

1274
01:19:29,840 --> 01:19:32,479
Speaker 3: and they learn to eat the four to five fee,

1275
01:19:32,680 --> 01:19:35,479
Speaker 3: not the medicaid feed yet although it's fine for the

1276
01:19:35,479 --> 01:19:38,599
Speaker 3: little birds, it doesn't hurt them. Okay, it's very very safe.

1277
01:19:39,200 --> 01:19:42,719
Speaker 3: But once so they learn, then the little birds learn

1278
01:19:43,280 --> 01:19:48,280
Speaker 3: that that that's a resource for them, particularly during drought, okay,

1279
01:19:48,479 --> 01:19:52,599
Speaker 3: when maybe seed production is very low. And so we

1280
01:19:52,600 --> 01:19:56,360
Speaker 3: were looking at all of these dimensions now and so

1281
01:19:56,800 --> 01:20:01,960
Speaker 3: what's what's kind of pretty awesome is once you get

1282
01:20:02,040 --> 01:20:06,680
Speaker 3: set up to treat, and like one of our ranches

1283
01:20:06,840 --> 01:20:11,920
Speaker 3: is two thousand acres and I've got students working out there,

1284
01:20:12,000 --> 01:20:14,160
Speaker 3: so we've got some pretty good estimates on the number

1285
01:20:14,200 --> 01:20:18,400
Speaker 3: of birds. But once you're set up to treat, with

1286
01:20:18,640 --> 01:20:25,920
Speaker 3: the cost of quail guard, you may be approximately able

1287
01:20:26,000 --> 01:20:30,680
Speaker 3: to treat for a dollar an acre a year, two

1288
01:20:30,760 --> 01:20:33,160
Speaker 3: thousand dollars instead of So.

1289
01:20:33,200 --> 01:20:36,160
Speaker 1: What's that come out as? How much for a pound

1290
01:20:36,240 --> 01:20:36,759
Speaker 1: of that feed?

1291
01:20:38,040 --> 01:20:40,920
Speaker 3: I think it sells for the Quail Guard Organization. I

1292
01:20:40,920 --> 01:20:43,320
Speaker 3: think it's fifty dollars for a fifty pound bag, so

1293
01:20:43,360 --> 01:20:43,759
Speaker 3: a dollar.

1294
01:20:44,000 --> 01:20:48,000
Speaker 5: Okay, you mentioned wild birds, and there's a lot of

1295
01:20:48,000 --> 01:20:52,799
Speaker 5: places where people are just going and shooting planted farm

1296
01:20:52,880 --> 01:20:57,599
Speaker 5: raise quail. Are those operations that are all interested in

1297
01:20:57,680 --> 01:21:00,320
Speaker 5: using this stuff or they're just putting birds out. They're

1298
01:21:01,040 --> 01:21:04,479
Speaker 5: they're gonna get shot, they're gonna get eaten by whatever.

1299
01:21:04,520 --> 01:21:07,519
Speaker 5: They're not worried about treating those birds.

1300
01:21:07,960 --> 01:21:11,759
Speaker 3: Yeah, a lot of my buddy's back in South Carolina

1301
01:21:11,880 --> 01:21:15,360
Speaker 3: they call them box birds. You go to a breeder

1302
01:21:15,400 --> 01:21:17,600
Speaker 3: and you buy twenty five in a box, and you

1303
01:21:17,680 --> 01:21:19,519
Speaker 3: go put the box out under a bush and the

1304
01:21:19,560 --> 01:21:22,479
Speaker 3: birds walk out in your home. Now, that's kind of

1305
01:21:22,479 --> 01:21:26,559
Speaker 3: what quail honting is to South Carolina now compared to

1306
01:21:26,680 --> 01:21:30,760
Speaker 3: us all wild covees. We're talking about wild quail, and

1307
01:21:32,600 --> 01:21:35,200
Speaker 3: a pin bird that's released in the wild has a

1308
01:21:35,320 --> 01:21:39,200
Speaker 3: very low chance of survival. And you can't imagine. This

1309
01:21:39,240 --> 01:21:44,640
Speaker 3: is another real value of our ranch. And when you

1310
01:21:44,680 --> 01:21:47,080
Speaker 3: have a ranch and you live with your quail, you

1311
01:21:47,360 --> 01:21:50,960
Speaker 3: learn a lot. But that hen is teaching that brood

1312
01:21:51,240 --> 01:21:55,040
Speaker 3: so much on alarm calls, and I mean she'll make

1313
01:21:55,080 --> 01:21:58,240
Speaker 3: a certain call and they'll all just freeze. And they

1314
01:21:58,240 --> 01:22:02,200
Speaker 3: don't learn that in a pen okay. And so survival

1315
01:22:02,960 --> 01:22:06,840
Speaker 3: is critical for a quail because literally everything wants to

1316
01:22:06,840 --> 01:22:11,840
Speaker 3: eat them, hawks and raccoons or snakes. Raccoons are terrible

1317
01:22:11,880 --> 01:22:16,400
Speaker 3: on the nest and so on. So aqail, a quail

1318
01:22:16,439 --> 01:22:18,640
Speaker 3: to survive has to be an athlete.

1319
01:22:18,800 --> 01:22:21,800
Speaker 1: You know that they found that same thing when they

1320
01:22:21,800 --> 01:22:25,000
Speaker 1: were trying to do re establish wild turkey populations for

1321
01:22:25,000 --> 01:22:27,920
Speaker 1: a long time. They were taking box birds exactly and

1322
01:22:27,960 --> 01:22:30,439
Speaker 1: cutting them loose, and it just never worked. It never

1323
01:22:30,479 --> 01:22:32,960
Speaker 1: worked because they didn't have the survival instinct. They didn't

1324
01:22:33,000 --> 01:22:35,759
Speaker 1: have that. It wasn't appreciated, like what level of education

1325
01:22:35,840 --> 01:22:39,280
Speaker 1: they're getting from the hen And when they finally found success,

1326
01:22:39,280 --> 01:22:42,679
Speaker 1: they found success by catching wild birds and moving wild

1327
01:22:42,720 --> 01:22:46,960
Speaker 1: birds exactly, and then they had that I always think

1328
01:22:47,000 --> 01:22:48,759
Speaker 1: of it as they had the right level of paranoia.

1329
01:22:49,920 --> 01:22:54,320
Speaker 3: And another thing too. We just had a second paper

1330
01:22:54,960 --> 01:22:59,040
Speaker 3: just come out in the International Journal of Parasitology. It's

1331
01:22:59,080 --> 01:23:06,280
Speaker 3: on our our website for Facebook, but we did a

1332
01:23:06,320 --> 01:23:12,080
Speaker 3: study on the same ranch. It's a massive French and

1333
01:23:12,120 --> 01:23:16,479
Speaker 3: we were able to get three six mile transsects where

1334
01:23:16,520 --> 01:23:19,639
Speaker 3: we did a test. And this was the early stages

1335
01:23:19,680 --> 01:23:23,360
Speaker 3: of getting ready to test the efficacy of the drug

1336
01:23:23,400 --> 01:23:26,280
Speaker 3: treatment for the FDA. So I was getting ready for that.

1337
01:23:27,160 --> 01:23:30,360
Speaker 3: But what what was really cool was reported this paper

1338
01:23:30,920 --> 01:23:34,959
Speaker 3: is that we had six miles separated by two miles

1339
01:23:35,160 --> 01:23:38,000
Speaker 3: and six miles separated by two miles all on the

1340
01:23:38,040 --> 01:23:38,719
Speaker 3: same ranch.

1341
01:23:38,960 --> 01:23:41,880
Speaker 1: Okay, big place, anybody hunting that place.

1342
01:23:43,960 --> 01:23:49,479
Speaker 3: But what was really interesting we we had feeder systems

1343
01:23:49,520 --> 01:23:53,080
Speaker 3: out there. We had the birds coming. Now, one of

1344
01:23:53,120 --> 01:23:57,160
Speaker 3: the transects we did nothing, and we had radio callers

1345
01:23:57,200 --> 01:23:59,439
Speaker 3: on birds, so we knew where they were going. We

1346
01:23:59,439 --> 01:24:03,479
Speaker 3: were using telemetry and they weren't flipping across transsects. They

1347
01:24:03,520 --> 01:24:09,040
Speaker 3: were located on those transseacts. But we had one transsect

1348
01:24:09,080 --> 01:24:14,320
Speaker 3: with nothing. The second transsect we had just the four

1349
01:24:14,320 --> 01:24:17,599
Speaker 3: to five feed, all right, it was a good quail feed.

1350
01:24:18,080 --> 01:24:22,400
Speaker 3: And then on the third transset we introduced the medication,

1351
01:24:22,600 --> 01:24:26,080
Speaker 3: the drug, and so we did two years of treatment.

1352
01:24:27,400 --> 01:24:32,439
Speaker 3: In that two years, that drug treatment had a three

1353
01:24:32,520 --> 01:24:37,720
Speaker 3: hundred percent increase in wild quail three hundred percent, And

1354
01:24:37,800 --> 01:24:42,920
Speaker 3: there was no difference between doing nothing and introducing the

1355
01:24:42,920 --> 01:24:45,680
Speaker 3: four to five feed. That was not significantly different. We

1356
01:24:45,680 --> 01:24:48,960
Speaker 3: were surprised. But when you introduced that drug.

1357
01:24:48,640 --> 01:24:51,440
Speaker 1: I would have thought it'd be good better or bad

1358
01:24:51,880 --> 01:24:52,639
Speaker 1: better best?

1359
01:24:52,840 --> 01:24:55,800
Speaker 3: Well, you know, the data is the data, but it

1360
01:24:55,880 --> 01:25:00,040
Speaker 3: could be on a given year, might might be. Do

1361
01:25:00,080 --> 01:25:04,120
Speaker 3: you think helping the birds, particularly in drought years is critical.

1362
01:25:04,479 --> 01:25:07,120
Speaker 3: I do, But on the given years we were working

1363
01:25:07,240 --> 01:25:11,240
Speaker 3: on this particular ranch, what we saw is it wasn't

1364
01:25:11,320 --> 01:25:14,200
Speaker 3: just the feed, it was the drug and that when

1365
01:25:14,240 --> 01:25:17,920
Speaker 3: you introduced that drug, we literally had a population explosion.

1366
01:25:18,160 --> 01:25:23,360
Speaker 1: So do most places if you go South Carolina we

1367
01:25:23,400 --> 01:25:29,000
Speaker 1: talked about Texas, whatever, do most places have enough birds

1368
01:25:29,160 --> 01:25:36,320
Speaker 1: left that that bringing in the medicated feed, bringing in

1369
01:25:36,360 --> 01:25:38,439
Speaker 1: the medicine is gonna be enough, because it seems to

1370
01:25:38,479 --> 01:25:41,160
Speaker 1: me that that they would need to be paired with

1371
01:25:42,880 --> 01:25:48,080
Speaker 1: some translocation of birds because like like like how you

1372
01:25:48,080 --> 01:25:50,160
Speaker 1: can go put all the medicid feed in the world out,

1373
01:25:50,200 --> 01:25:51,800
Speaker 1: but if there's no birds to find it, there's no

1374
01:25:51,800 --> 01:25:53,680
Speaker 1: birds to find it or good habitat.

1375
01:25:53,960 --> 01:25:58,760
Speaker 3: Well that's those are those are great points. And there

1376
01:25:58,800 --> 01:26:02,920
Speaker 3: are attempts now to reintroduce quail into East Texas. You know,

1377
01:26:03,080 --> 01:26:06,160
Speaker 3: Texas used to have quail all over of the state

1378
01:26:06,680 --> 01:26:11,160
Speaker 3: and they they have kept retreating west and you pretty much.

1379
01:26:11,640 --> 01:26:13,960
Speaker 3: You got to get to Abilene before you start getting

1380
01:26:14,000 --> 01:26:18,439
Speaker 3: into quail again. Uh, it's amazing. So they're trying to

1381
01:26:18,479 --> 01:26:22,240
Speaker 3: reintroduce quail into East Texas and I don't know where

1382
01:26:22,280 --> 01:26:26,439
Speaker 3: all of this is going, Steve, except my data tells

1383
01:26:26,520 --> 01:26:31,280
Speaker 3: me with heart information that we've been able to sustain

1384
01:26:32,160 --> 01:26:39,360
Speaker 3: sustainable huntable populations on our demonstration FDA approved demonstration ranches

1385
01:26:39,680 --> 01:26:43,479
Speaker 3: while the neighbors weren't hunting. And that's a fact. We're

1386
01:26:43,479 --> 01:26:45,160
Speaker 3: writing that paper up right now.

1387
01:26:45,400 --> 01:26:47,000
Speaker 1: But the neighbors weren't hunting.

1388
01:26:48,520 --> 01:26:52,240
Speaker 3: That they didn't have the quail, and so I think

1389
01:26:52,680 --> 01:26:55,760
Speaker 3: those are those are real acid tests, you know, and

1390
01:26:56,160 --> 01:27:01,760
Speaker 3: because what our whole goal has been is is sustainable

1391
01:27:01,840 --> 01:27:06,640
Speaker 3: huntable populations. Because as I explained on my website that

1392
01:27:08,400 --> 01:27:12,240
Speaker 3: you know, it was a sportsman that funded all of this.

1393
01:27:13,120 --> 01:27:15,679
Speaker 3: It wasn't a federal grant. It was a sportsman and

1394
01:27:16,240 --> 01:27:18,919
Speaker 3: they cared about the pay exactly.

1395
01:27:18,960 --> 01:27:21,680
Speaker 1: Then people wind up criticizing sportsmen to be like, oh,

1396
01:27:21,760 --> 01:27:23,759
Speaker 1: you just want to save them, see can hunt them.

1397
01:27:24,120 --> 01:27:27,120
Speaker 1: And you're like, you know what, that's partially true, well

1398
01:27:27,280 --> 01:27:29,080
Speaker 1: not all the way true, but it's partially true.

1399
01:27:29,120 --> 01:27:32,479
Speaker 3: Well, quail hunting is kind of a religion in Texas.

1400
01:27:32,560 --> 01:27:38,320
Speaker 3: And the Park City's Quail Coalition has a banquet every

1401
01:27:38,400 --> 01:27:42,200
Speaker 3: March and they they'll have a thousand people there for

1402
01:27:42,520 --> 01:27:46,360
Speaker 3: raising money for quail and they can raise maybe a

1403
01:27:46,400 --> 01:27:50,320
Speaker 3: couple of million dollars that night. There's so much interest

1404
01:27:50,560 --> 01:27:54,440
Speaker 3: in this, and I want to put things in perspective

1405
01:27:54,520 --> 01:27:59,920
Speaker 3: to how important quail hunting is in Texas. I gave

1406
01:28:00,040 --> 01:28:04,519
Speaker 3: a talk five six years ago with a Scottish scientist

1407
01:28:04,600 --> 01:28:06,639
Speaker 3: that had done a lot of work on the red

1408
01:28:06,640 --> 01:28:11,160
Speaker 3: grouse in Scotland. Now, in hunting the red grouse in Scotland,

1409
01:28:11,800 --> 01:28:14,479
Speaker 3: they're hunting on the moors and the you know, the

1410
01:28:14,520 --> 01:28:17,960
Speaker 3: grouse are driven and you have you have a stand,

1411
01:28:18,080 --> 01:28:20,960
Speaker 3: and you got a guy loading the gun for you hand.

1412
01:28:21,120 --> 01:28:24,320
Speaker 3: You're shooting so much, you have a you have a loader,

1413
01:28:24,439 --> 01:28:26,720
Speaker 3: the hands of the gun, and you may stay in

1414
01:28:26,760 --> 01:28:32,080
Speaker 3: a castle or something. So I'm serious. I've never done this.

1415
01:28:32,240 --> 01:28:35,240
Speaker 3: I want to do it before I die, but I've

1416
01:28:35,280 --> 01:28:38,080
Speaker 3: heard it's pretty pretty elite, you know. And I was

1417
01:28:38,160 --> 01:28:40,680
Speaker 3: talking to this scientist that had done a lot of

1418
01:28:40,680 --> 01:28:44,680
Speaker 3: work with the red grouse and a graduate student and

1419
01:28:44,720 --> 01:28:47,120
Speaker 3: I were having lunch with him, and I said, you know,

1420
01:28:47,200 --> 01:28:50,320
Speaker 3: I just always thought that was amazing and I said,

1421
01:28:50,320 --> 01:28:53,360
Speaker 3: it's got to be the pinnacle of wing shooting while

1422
01:28:53,360 --> 01:28:56,719
Speaker 3: bird wing shooting in the world. He said, oh no, no,

1423
01:28:57,320 --> 01:29:00,400
Speaker 3: he said, it's your West Texas quail hunting that we

1424
01:29:01,040 --> 01:29:04,479
Speaker 3: over in Scotland. Look at you know, you're out with

1425
01:29:04,560 --> 01:29:07,840
Speaker 3: a jeep and got fine bird dogs and pointing these

1426
01:29:07,840 --> 01:29:08,879
Speaker 3: wild bible white.

1427
01:29:08,680 --> 01:29:10,719
Speaker 1: Quail and staying in a regular house.

1428
01:29:10,840 --> 01:29:13,880
Speaker 3: Staying in a regular house. And you know, that just

1429
01:29:14,040 --> 01:29:18,599
Speaker 3: staggered me because I said, you know, you're telling the truth.

1430
01:29:18,680 --> 01:29:23,600
Speaker 3: And uh my, my good friend Rick Snipes. Uh he

1431
01:29:23,680 --> 01:29:27,400
Speaker 3: has a ranch in West Texas and and Snipes Ranch

1432
01:29:27,479 --> 01:29:30,080
Speaker 3: and we did a lot of the early work on

1433
01:29:30,080 --> 01:29:33,400
Speaker 3: on on his ranch. But he calls it the patcheant

1434
01:29:33,479 --> 01:29:35,920
Speaker 3: Tree of the hunt. And it's a lot to it.

1435
01:29:36,000 --> 01:29:39,960
Speaker 3: Getting the dogs ready, loading the jeep with the bird dogs,

1436
01:29:40,000 --> 01:29:41,200
Speaker 3: and you.

1437
01:29:41,200 --> 01:29:42,479
Speaker 5: Got your cowboy hat on.

1438
01:29:43,040 --> 01:29:45,720
Speaker 3: He didn't wear a cowboy hat, but he's got a

1439
01:29:45,760 --> 01:29:48,400
Speaker 3: seat sitting out in front of the jeep, you know,

1440
01:29:48,560 --> 01:29:52,599
Speaker 3: off the ground. And I mean it's cool looking and

1441
01:29:52,600 --> 01:29:55,840
Speaker 3: and uh so it's it's a lot a lot going

1442
01:29:55,880 --> 01:30:00,040
Speaker 3: on there. It's very colorful and dogs were pointing and

1443
01:30:00,040 --> 01:30:03,120
Speaker 3: and Coveys are getting up. So it's quite a spectacle,

1444
01:30:03,200 --> 01:30:07,200
Speaker 3: to be honest. And we were recently on Sportsman's Classic

1445
01:30:07,280 --> 01:30:11,519
Speaker 3: TV with mister Dorsey, you know, he came in quail

1446
01:30:11,600 --> 01:30:14,679
Speaker 3: hunting with us and we did a great story and

1447
01:30:14,840 --> 01:30:17,960
Speaker 3: we had Rick leading the hunt sitting in front of

1448
01:30:17,960 --> 01:30:20,640
Speaker 3: the jeep. So, but it's a lot of pageantry to it.

1449
01:30:20,760 --> 01:30:25,519
Speaker 3: So I look back to my uh my, this this

1450
01:30:25,640 --> 01:30:31,280
Speaker 3: scientist and talking about that and they it just really

1451
01:30:31,400 --> 01:30:35,600
Speaker 3: hit me hard, like it's right here in my backyard

1452
01:30:36,160 --> 01:30:39,479
Speaker 3: that what they are looking at is probably some of

1453
01:30:39,560 --> 01:30:43,280
Speaker 3: the best in the world. It's the pinnacle and Steve,

1454
01:30:43,840 --> 01:30:45,760
Speaker 3: you may want to come quail hunt with us.

1455
01:30:45,760 --> 01:30:47,040
Speaker 1: I'm getting excited about it now.

1456
01:30:47,240 --> 01:30:47,960
Speaker 3: Oh man.

1457
01:30:48,240 --> 01:30:50,280
Speaker 1: The main thing I'm the main thing I'm turning into

1458
01:30:50,320 --> 01:30:55,639
Speaker 1: the back of my head is how my buddy, how

1459
01:30:55,680 --> 01:31:00,639
Speaker 1: my buddy Brad can get on this program? Now? Uh

1460
01:31:01,240 --> 01:31:03,719
Speaker 1: I know you you you put it out using the feeder.

1461
01:31:04,280 --> 01:31:05,719
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1462
01:31:05,800 --> 01:31:10,599
Speaker 1: Will that be the like if a if a if

1463
01:31:10,640 --> 01:31:14,960
Speaker 1: a landowner, a rancher concern party wants to buy wants

1464
01:31:14,960 --> 01:31:18,800
Speaker 1: to try this on their place, is it is it

1465
01:31:18,880 --> 01:31:21,800
Speaker 1: prescribed like you have to do it such and such

1466
01:31:21,840 --> 01:31:24,080
Speaker 1: way or else You're in violation of the law, or

1467
01:31:24,080 --> 01:31:26,920
Speaker 1: do you anticipate there'll be people buying a sack of

1468
01:31:26,920 --> 01:31:29,400
Speaker 1: the stuff and just putting it in the seed spreader

1469
01:31:29,439 --> 01:31:31,879
Speaker 1: and driving down the road and see what happens.

1470
01:31:32,760 --> 01:31:37,920
Speaker 3: Good point. The FDA label said is recommended to use

1471
01:31:38,200 --> 01:31:42,519
Speaker 3: strategic feeders. Recommended Okay, okay, because someone buys it, so

1472
01:31:42,640 --> 01:31:49,320
Speaker 3: I can see other uses. But again looking at it,

1473
01:31:50,760 --> 01:31:56,080
Speaker 3: they the FDA label, They did not make it totally restrictive. No, yeah,

1474
01:31:56,640 --> 01:32:00,519
Speaker 3: they just recommended it. And because I can just see

1475
01:32:00,520 --> 01:32:03,599
Speaker 3: a lot of value maybe maybe in a pellet form

1476
01:32:03,720 --> 01:32:08,000
Speaker 3: in the future, the quail accept the pellet form. The

1477
01:32:08,000 --> 01:32:11,559
Speaker 3: the feed is uh is a crumble now and it's

1478
01:32:11,640 --> 01:32:14,800
Speaker 3: highly palatable when we shift when we go to the

1479
01:32:14,840 --> 01:32:20,599
Speaker 3: medicated feed, the quail have they accept it immediately. We've

1480
01:32:20,640 --> 01:32:22,719
Speaker 3: we've determined all of this with video evidence.

1481
01:32:22,760 --> 01:32:28,320
Speaker 1: So how do you get how does someone like someone

1482
01:32:28,360 --> 01:32:33,200
Speaker 1: wants to apply this and try it. Where do they go?

1483
01:32:33,560 --> 01:32:35,320
Speaker 1: How do they begin? I mean do they They're not

1484
01:32:35,360 --> 01:32:37,240
Speaker 1: buying it all on Amazon? I don't imagine.

1485
01:32:37,720 --> 01:32:42,640
Speaker 3: No. My son has an organization called quail Safe and

1486
01:32:42,680 --> 01:32:45,720
Speaker 3: this uh, it's got it's got all this information on it.

1487
01:32:46,040 --> 01:32:51,640
Speaker 3: Quailsafe dot com We've been working with Bryant Mills in

1488
01:32:51,680 --> 01:32:55,559
Speaker 3: a Ledo, Texas. They've been terrific. They they are, they

1489
01:32:55,640 --> 01:32:59,320
Speaker 3: manufacture the feed, they is. They do a beautiful job.

1490
01:33:00,479 --> 01:33:03,960
Speaker 3: The feed is incredibly nutritious. We have the science on that.

1491
01:33:04,040 --> 01:33:05,439
Speaker 1: And anybody can buy it.

1492
01:33:05,840 --> 01:33:08,000
Speaker 3: Anybody can buy it. That's what That's what I'm saying.

1493
01:33:08,439 --> 01:33:11,800
Speaker 3: If this is why this made us history. This is

1494
01:33:11,840 --> 01:33:16,519
Speaker 3: the first medicative feed article to be registered for a

1495
01:33:16,600 --> 01:33:21,760
Speaker 3: wildlife species and the natural habitat to be commercially available.

1496
01:33:22,120 --> 01:33:27,439
Speaker 3: So this made history, and and what I'm proud of.

1497
01:33:28,560 --> 01:33:32,719
Speaker 3: Like I said Corinn earlier, we weren't a drug company. Okay,

1498
01:33:33,040 --> 01:33:36,680
Speaker 3: this was eight years of working with FDA and then

1499
01:33:36,720 --> 01:33:41,640
Speaker 3: another couple of years of preliminary data. So we did

1500
01:33:41,720 --> 01:33:45,519
Speaker 3: it with graduate students, and graduate students don't stay but

1501
01:33:45,600 --> 01:33:49,280
Speaker 3: a few years, so we had to go through multiple

1502
01:33:49,360 --> 01:33:54,439
Speaker 3: graduate students and I had some amazing students that well,

1503
01:33:54,479 --> 01:33:56,200
Speaker 3: you can look at my website and see how many

1504
01:33:56,200 --> 01:34:00,679
Speaker 3: publications we've got. One of my past graduates students through

1505
01:34:00,720 --> 01:34:05,559
Speaker 3: her doctoral work, got twenty peer reviewed scientific publications from

1506
01:34:05,640 --> 01:34:06,439
Speaker 3: her doctoral work.

1507
01:34:06,840 --> 01:34:08,919
Speaker 1: That's a lot off this project.

1508
01:34:09,080 --> 01:34:13,320
Speaker 5: Yeah, have you had any interest from like State game

1509
01:34:13,360 --> 01:34:21,160
Speaker 5: agencies using this stuff, yes, because one of the challenges

1510
01:34:21,200 --> 01:34:24,360
Speaker 5: with it is it's like it's a very targeted solution

1511
01:34:24,600 --> 01:34:28,599
Speaker 5: for a like widespread problem, like like like you said,

1512
01:34:28,640 --> 01:34:31,320
Speaker 5: like you fix the quail problem on one ranch and

1513
01:34:31,360 --> 01:34:33,320
Speaker 5: the neighbors didn't have any quail.

1514
01:34:33,479 --> 01:34:41,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's a good, good point. This is an evolving process.

1515
01:34:42,200 --> 01:34:46,479
Speaker 3: It was evolving at FDA. It's evolving in terms of

1516
01:34:47,240 --> 01:34:54,320
Speaker 3: engagement with management agencies and so on. Traditionally, state management

1517
01:34:54,360 --> 01:34:59,519
Speaker 3: agencies are habitat habitat, habitat habitat. And as I told

1518
01:34:59,560 --> 01:35:00,200
Speaker 3: you early.

1519
01:35:00,320 --> 01:35:01,920
Speaker 1: Which I usually applaud.

1520
01:35:02,120 --> 01:35:05,800
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, I mean, I'm all into habitat, but

1521
01:35:06,320 --> 01:35:10,639
Speaker 3: habitat's not all of it. And so when I lost

1522
01:35:11,640 --> 01:35:15,080
Speaker 3: quail and my good friends lost their quail on superior

1523
01:35:15,160 --> 01:35:19,759
Speaker 3: quail habitat, that the years I told you, I started saying,

1524
01:35:19,920 --> 01:35:24,160
Speaker 3: uh uh, it's more than habitat. And I, as a scientist, said,

1525
01:35:24,280 --> 01:35:28,280
Speaker 3: there's something driving this, and there's something driving these crashes.

1526
01:35:29,200 --> 01:35:33,040
Speaker 3: And what's cool, like I said, when we've been treating

1527
01:35:33,120 --> 01:35:38,040
Speaker 3: these properties, we haven't seen the crashes. We've been having

1528
01:35:38,120 --> 01:35:40,280
Speaker 3: sustained huntable populations.

1529
01:35:40,400 --> 01:35:43,280
Speaker 1: Well, but for how long has it been available for.

1530
01:35:44,840 --> 01:35:48,400
Speaker 3: It was registered May twenty third, twenty twenty four. That's

1531
01:35:48,640 --> 01:35:51,000
Speaker 3: just now.

1532
01:35:51,040 --> 01:35:55,640
Speaker 1: And so you just don't there, there's not you're not

1533
01:35:55,800 --> 01:35:59,200
Speaker 1: yet in a position where you've got one hundred land

1534
01:35:59,280 --> 01:36:03,040
Speaker 1: managers who have gone out and you haven't yet got

1535
01:36:03,080 --> 01:36:05,679
Speaker 1: a hundred land managers to go out, take the equipment,

1536
01:36:05,720 --> 01:36:08,760
Speaker 1: apply it on their property. You give it time to work.

1537
01:36:08,880 --> 01:36:10,360
Speaker 1: You just you just don't know where this is going

1538
01:36:10,439 --> 01:36:11,040
Speaker 1: to head right now.

1539
01:36:11,200 --> 01:36:16,120
Speaker 3: Yeah, and what we found out it takes about three years. Okay,

1540
01:36:16,840 --> 01:36:21,440
Speaker 3: into your second year, you and get in the right conditions.

1541
01:36:21,479 --> 01:36:24,679
Speaker 3: You can see a real pop and numbers, and we

1542
01:36:24,960 --> 01:36:28,200
Speaker 3: report that in this paper that's just come out next.

1543
01:36:28,400 --> 01:36:30,720
Speaker 1: I got I can see the time because yeah, you

1544
01:36:30,760 --> 01:36:32,800
Speaker 1: got to do it. You got to acclimate them. You

1545
01:36:32,880 --> 01:36:34,839
Speaker 1: got to get the coffees coming, you got to acclimate

1546
01:36:34,840 --> 01:36:35,439
Speaker 1: them to the feed.

1547
01:36:35,680 --> 01:36:38,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, so it takes You just can't go

1548
01:36:38,760 --> 01:36:41,200
Speaker 3: throw the feed out there and say, oh man, I'm

1549
01:36:41,200 --> 01:36:43,040
Speaker 3: gonna have a bunch of quail this fall. It doesn't

1550
01:36:43,080 --> 01:36:45,400
Speaker 3: work that way. It just doesn't work that way. It's

1551
01:36:45,439 --> 01:36:48,519
Speaker 3: a process. And you got you know, and uh, Ronnie,

1552
01:36:48,960 --> 01:36:52,439
Speaker 3: my son, Ronnie, he has a website that explains all

1553
01:36:52,479 --> 01:36:56,040
Speaker 3: of this and he's got beautiful videos and whatever. It's

1554
01:36:56,080 --> 01:37:00,360
Speaker 3: called quailsafe dot com. And and there is a strata

1555
01:37:00,479 --> 01:37:03,040
Speaker 3: and and you need you need to know how to

1556
01:37:03,080 --> 01:37:07,920
Speaker 3: place these uh, these instruments, uh to deliver the feed,

1557
01:37:09,120 --> 01:37:11,760
Speaker 3: how to how to manage them. It's almost I mean,

1558
01:37:12,720 --> 01:37:14,400
Speaker 3: once you put them out and get the quail coming,

1559
01:37:14,439 --> 01:37:17,080
Speaker 3: it's pretty much this, you're done.

1560
01:37:18,439 --> 01:37:20,919
Speaker 1: What you deworm a quail? How long is he dewormed?

1561
01:37:20,960 --> 01:37:24,120
Speaker 3: For got a student working on that. They will be

1562
01:37:24,200 --> 01:37:28,000
Speaker 3: reinfected the next year probably. What we've learned though, Steve

1563
01:37:28,680 --> 01:37:31,720
Speaker 3: is on our demonstration ranches and we have another scientific

1564
01:37:31,720 --> 01:37:37,040
Speaker 3: paper on this. We are suppressing the cycle.

1565
01:37:37,360 --> 01:37:39,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's my next.

1566
01:37:39,920 --> 01:37:44,600
Speaker 3: In other words, the percentage of insects carrying the infective

1567
01:37:44,680 --> 01:37:50,120
Speaker 3: larvae is significantly reduced going into a multi year Medicaid

1568
01:37:50,200 --> 01:37:50,759
Speaker 3: feed treatment.

1569
01:37:50,840 --> 01:37:53,840
Speaker 5: Yeah, you said they'll be reinfected next year. But like

1570
01:37:54,080 --> 01:37:56,920
Speaker 5: a one year old quail is ancient.

1571
01:37:56,800 --> 01:37:59,320
Speaker 3: Right, Well, that's what a lot of people think, but

1572
01:37:59,400 --> 01:38:02,519
Speaker 3: it's not necessarily the truth. And we have data to

1573
01:38:02,600 --> 01:38:09,320
Speaker 3: prove this now. On one of my outstanding PhD students

1574
01:38:09,360 --> 01:38:12,080
Speaker 3: that just finished this spring, he had a four year

1575
01:38:12,200 --> 01:38:16,640
Speaker 3: project on a ranch and really intensively monitored them, and

1576
01:38:16,760 --> 01:38:20,000
Speaker 3: what he found compared to an untreated area and the

1577
01:38:20,040 --> 01:38:25,280
Speaker 3: same county close was he was seeing a forty percent

1578
01:38:25,400 --> 01:38:29,920
Speaker 3: survivability to the next year versus a ten percent. Okay,

1579
01:38:30,040 --> 01:38:34,960
Speaker 3: so and so and no wonder when he would do

1580
01:38:35,120 --> 01:38:39,680
Speaker 3: his fall covey counts, it was phenomenal. Now what does

1581
01:38:39,720 --> 01:38:43,479
Speaker 3: that mean. Well, the teams go out and write at

1582
01:38:43,479 --> 01:38:46,960
Speaker 3: first light, they'll listen for these covey calls, and at

1583
01:38:47,000 --> 01:38:51,800
Speaker 3: a given point you hear the covees express themselves with

1584
01:38:51,920 --> 01:38:57,720
Speaker 3: a location call at sunrise, and you count those calls. Well,

1585
01:38:57,760 --> 01:39:02,559
Speaker 3: if you hear five, that's pretty good. Good. If you

1586
01:39:02,600 --> 01:39:08,800
Speaker 3: hear eight, that's terrific. If you hear ten plus, like

1587
01:39:08,840 --> 01:39:12,080
Speaker 3: you're here, you're standing here and you're hearing that call,

1588
01:39:14,360 --> 01:39:20,720
Speaker 3: that's outstanding. He was hearing fifteen eighteen. You got me

1589
01:39:22,040 --> 01:39:28,680
Speaker 3: significant numbers. So we are excited about that because we

1590
01:39:28,880 --> 01:39:33,800
Speaker 3: are enhancing quails survivability and sustainability.

1591
01:39:34,040 --> 01:39:37,080
Speaker 5: Is that a key to like maintaining numbers, is to

1592
01:39:37,200 --> 01:39:39,760
Speaker 5: have birds carry over to their section.

1593
01:39:39,920 --> 01:39:44,439
Speaker 3: Exactly, the most valuable quail on your property is that

1594
01:39:44,560 --> 01:39:47,759
Speaker 3: hen that is able to carry over to the next

1595
01:39:47,840 --> 01:39:51,640
Speaker 3: year and be ready to breed or to nest in

1596
01:39:51,760 --> 01:39:58,360
Speaker 3: March April. And she's she could actually give you fifty birds.

1597
01:39:58,479 --> 01:40:02,400
Speaker 3: Could she can nest three times in a summer? You

1598
01:40:02,439 --> 01:40:04,680
Speaker 3: see what I mean? So you want to carry that

1599
01:40:04,800 --> 01:40:08,639
Speaker 3: hen over if you can? And so, uh so this

1600
01:40:08,720 --> 01:40:11,880
Speaker 3: is what we're seeing, that we're seeing the evidence of this.

1601
01:40:12,600 --> 01:40:15,960
Speaker 3: And the way I look at this, you know, you

1602
01:40:16,040 --> 01:40:19,519
Speaker 3: don't really get it until your buddies, that we your

1603
01:40:20,040 --> 01:40:23,320
Speaker 3: teenager hunting partiers, say there are any quail left in

1604
01:40:23,320 --> 01:40:26,479
Speaker 3: our old haunts in South Carolin, They're gone. And I said,

1605
01:40:26,800 --> 01:40:31,240
Speaker 3: I said to myself, man, that that's the real deal.

1606
01:40:31,400 --> 01:40:34,599
Speaker 3: And it's happened across most of the wild Bob white

1607
01:40:34,640 --> 01:40:38,040
Speaker 3: quail range now and so can it happen in Texas?

1608
01:40:38,040 --> 01:40:41,679
Speaker 3: You better believe it can happen. And so what we're doing,

1609
01:40:42,200 --> 01:40:44,960
Speaker 3: and the way I look at it is, you know,

1610
01:40:45,439 --> 01:40:50,639
Speaker 3: any I'm in this for conservation, and uh, I don't

1611
01:40:50,640 --> 01:40:55,360
Speaker 3: shoot any quail anymore. They my buddies, and uh so

1612
01:40:55,360 --> 01:40:58,160
Speaker 3: so but I love my quail, honey, and uh and

1613
01:40:58,200 --> 01:41:00,760
Speaker 3: I love my bird dogs, and uh it's such a

1614
01:41:00,800 --> 01:41:04,760
Speaker 3: beautiful thing to watch a fine dog cover the landscape

1615
01:41:05,240 --> 01:41:08,080
Speaker 3: and work a covey of quail and just the finesse

1616
01:41:08,160 --> 01:41:12,680
Speaker 3: of it and how intelligent they are. So there's a

1617
01:41:12,680 --> 01:41:16,280
Speaker 3: film some of your viewers might want to look at.

1618
01:41:16,479 --> 01:41:22,280
Speaker 3: It's called Vbob White dot com. That's Vbob White dot com.

1619
01:41:22,720 --> 01:41:25,920
Speaker 3: And it tells my son produced it with a team

1620
01:41:26,040 --> 01:41:31,519
Speaker 3: from Nashville, and it's won some awards. But it tells

1621
01:41:31,560 --> 01:41:35,920
Speaker 3: that story of the the issue of the quail and

1622
01:41:36,000 --> 01:41:40,519
Speaker 3: how important they are as an indicator of your ranch

1623
01:41:40,560 --> 01:41:45,679
Speaker 3: health and of your conservation ethic. And so we take

1624
01:41:45,720 --> 01:41:50,439
Speaker 3: this pretty serious and the family has all dedicated itself

1625
01:41:50,479 --> 01:41:53,439
Speaker 3: to this work over many many years. So you know,

1626
01:41:54,720 --> 01:41:58,519
Speaker 3: my wife Colleen has been counting quail with me for years,

1627
01:41:58,560 --> 01:42:01,400
Speaker 3: and I just wanted to share something with you too.

1628
01:42:02,960 --> 01:42:06,599
Speaker 3: We drive around on the ranch and when we get

1629
01:42:06,680 --> 01:42:10,200
Speaker 3: up a covey of quail. When Ronnie was a little boy,

1630
01:42:10,439 --> 01:42:13,120
Speaker 3: he grew up out on that ranch, and I get

1631
01:42:13,120 --> 01:42:16,000
Speaker 3: excited over every covey I see, you know, I count

1632
01:42:16,000 --> 01:42:18,360
Speaker 3: them and want to see if they're young birds or

1633
01:42:18,400 --> 01:42:22,040
Speaker 3: older birds. But every covey I saw, I always get excited,

1634
01:42:22,600 --> 01:42:25,080
Speaker 3: and I'll never forget. One day, he looked to me,

1635
01:42:25,720 --> 01:42:28,880
Speaker 3: he's in the jeep, and he said, Dad, why do

1636
01:42:28,960 --> 01:42:31,960
Speaker 3: you get excited over every covey of quail you see.

1637
01:42:32,160 --> 01:42:35,040
Speaker 3: He said, we got quail all over the place. I said,

1638
01:42:35,080 --> 01:42:37,400
Speaker 3: because we may not have them one day, and we

1639
01:42:37,560 --> 01:42:40,679
Speaker 3: lost them in South Carolina, and we can lose them here.

1640
01:42:41,120 --> 01:42:45,080
Speaker 3: And so now when he drives around, he gets excited

1641
01:42:45,120 --> 01:42:49,080
Speaker 3: over every covey he sees because he values it. Now

1642
01:42:49,320 --> 01:42:53,559
Speaker 3: he understands that, you know, so many people don't have them,

1643
01:42:54,040 --> 01:42:55,280
Speaker 3: even in West Texas.

1644
01:42:55,800 --> 01:43:01,559
Speaker 4: I got a question about quail nos on public lands

1645
01:43:01,640 --> 01:43:05,920
Speaker 4: because I I see this so far as a like

1646
01:43:06,000 --> 01:43:09,360
Speaker 4: a private lands solution, and I know this maybe kind

1647
01:43:09,360 --> 01:43:12,960
Speaker 4: of piggybacks off what you were asking. If there's game

1648
01:43:13,000 --> 01:43:15,240
Speaker 4: agencies interested in this.

1649
01:43:16,600 --> 01:43:17,960
Speaker 1: I mean, there's no way they're not going to be

1650
01:43:18,000 --> 01:43:21,280
Speaker 1: If it's if it winds up being effective, there's no

1651
01:43:21,320 --> 01:43:22,640
Speaker 1: way they're not going to be interested in that.

1652
01:43:22,760 --> 01:43:25,439
Speaker 4: But then if you've got if on public lands, you

1653
01:43:25,560 --> 01:43:31,040
Speaker 4: have these feeders, and then with the issue of toxicology,

1654
01:43:31,560 --> 01:43:35,920
Speaker 4: you know, are there studies underway of what quail guard

1655
01:43:36,680 --> 01:43:39,520
Speaker 4: on the land has on other species?

1656
01:43:39,600 --> 01:43:42,240
Speaker 1: Who knows not not that you know well.

1657
01:43:42,760 --> 01:43:44,400
Speaker 3: And good question, Karin.

1658
01:43:45,439 --> 01:43:49,040
Speaker 4: I appreciate, honestly Ryan Callahan's question.

1659
01:43:51,479 --> 01:44:00,320
Speaker 3: What we've seen in ten years of field work and

1660
01:44:00,840 --> 01:44:06,200
Speaker 3: massive amount of observation, video data and so on. We

1661
01:44:06,240 --> 01:44:09,400
Speaker 3: are not seeing non targeted were we are not seeing

1662
01:44:10,400 --> 01:44:16,599
Speaker 3: non target species effects. Okay, and what we know as well,

1663
01:44:17,080 --> 01:44:21,840
Speaker 3: if you utilize quail safe technology on a property, you're

1664
01:44:21,880 --> 01:44:27,519
Speaker 3: targeting the quail pretty much. And so so again we

1665
01:44:27,600 --> 01:44:32,320
Speaker 3: do uh, when we were doing all these tests, like

1666
01:44:32,320 --> 01:44:37,720
Speaker 3: our efficacy studies for FDA whatever, we would do circular

1667
01:44:37,800 --> 01:44:41,519
Speaker 3: investigations around any treatment area to see any.

1668
01:44:41,320 --> 01:44:43,280
Speaker 4: Evidence like soil health type stuff.

1669
01:44:43,479 --> 01:44:49,760
Speaker 3: Yeah. So so again it's you know, and the rate

1670
01:44:49,800 --> 01:44:53,680
Speaker 3: at what we're using it's pretty low. And uh, so

1671
01:44:53,880 --> 01:44:58,720
Speaker 3: I I feel really good about it. And uh, I'm

1672
01:44:58,760 --> 01:45:01,160
Speaker 3: sure going to use it. And so I look at

1673
01:45:01,200 --> 01:45:05,559
Speaker 3: it and to me is I want to help the

1674
01:45:05,560 --> 01:45:08,360
Speaker 3: wild Bob white, I don't want to lose and uh

1675
01:45:08,800 --> 01:45:12,320
Speaker 3: and so and I'm looking at this. We're starting to

1676
01:45:12,360 --> 01:45:16,400
Speaker 3: look at songbirds too, and I think we may be

1677
01:45:16,560 --> 01:45:19,919
Speaker 3: needing to investigate songbirds because we've already got the evidence

1678
01:45:20,080 --> 01:45:21,320
Speaker 3: it's in songbirds.

1679
01:45:21,920 --> 01:45:26,200
Speaker 4: Are there are there groups of individuals or other I

1680
01:45:26,200 --> 01:45:30,640
Speaker 4: don't know? Are there are there people who are against

1681
01:45:30,680 --> 01:45:37,759
Speaker 4: the idea of administered, not not administering, but offering drugs

1682
01:45:37,800 --> 01:45:40,800
Speaker 4: to wild animals as as the thing that you know

1683
01:45:40,920 --> 01:45:44,040
Speaker 4: you can you can bring this out further.

1684
01:45:44,120 --> 01:45:49,800
Speaker 1: To organized is there organized opposition effort?

1685
01:45:51,920 --> 01:45:54,679
Speaker 4: I haven't not run into that, you know, like would

1686
01:45:54,680 --> 01:45:59,080
Speaker 4: we end up, would we end up you know, having uh,

1687
01:45:59,160 --> 01:46:04,280
Speaker 4: you know drug come is make all kinds of things

1688
01:46:04,360 --> 01:46:08,559
Speaker 4: to you know, hoof fraud eahd you know, would.

1689
01:46:08,400 --> 01:46:10,680
Speaker 1: We the minute they find something for hoof fright, I

1690
01:46:10,680 --> 01:46:12,760
Speaker 1: can guarantee you that someone's gonna be going through this

1691
01:46:12,840 --> 01:46:13,680
Speaker 1: process on it.

1692
01:46:15,800 --> 01:46:22,519
Speaker 3: I'd say for the for the most part, I haven't

1693
01:46:22,560 --> 01:46:29,640
Speaker 3: seen major opposition. I've seen mainly amazement and fascination that

1694
01:46:29,720 --> 01:46:32,880
Speaker 3: we can help a species like this. And the way

1695
01:46:32,920 --> 01:46:40,720
Speaker 3: I see it, we are experiencing a lot of climatic variation.

1696
01:46:41,120 --> 01:46:44,320
Speaker 3: That's I mean, we had one hundred and sixteen degree

1697
01:46:44,479 --> 01:46:49,840
Speaker 3: temperatures last summer in West Texas. We're not the Mohave Desert,

1698
01:46:50,960 --> 01:46:55,599
Speaker 3: so we're seeing a lot more plus hundred degree days

1699
01:46:55,880 --> 01:46:59,720
Speaker 3: one hundred and twelve hundred and fourteen. And you look

1700
01:46:59,720 --> 01:47:03,880
Speaker 3: at all all these variables and you think about the

1701
01:47:03,960 --> 01:47:09,640
Speaker 3: stress organisms or having to deal with and in a

1702
01:47:09,720 --> 01:47:13,880
Speaker 3: climate that may be may be changing. I'm not going

1703
01:47:13,960 --> 01:47:15,840
Speaker 3: to debate that right now, but I'm going to say,

1704
01:47:16,800 --> 01:47:18,920
Speaker 3: when it's one hundred and sixteen degrees out there and

1705
01:47:18,960 --> 01:47:21,560
Speaker 3: you're a quail nesting on the ground, that ground is

1706
01:47:21,560 --> 01:47:26,840
Speaker 3: probably two hundred degrees. So anything we can do to

1707
01:47:26,960 --> 01:47:32,200
Speaker 3: help that quail survive those extremes, that's what I'm looking at.

1708
01:47:32,560 --> 01:47:37,240
Speaker 3: And at the same time, this past winter it's five

1709
01:47:37,280 --> 01:47:39,519
Speaker 3: degrees with snow on the ground. We can go to

1710
01:47:39,560 --> 01:47:43,679
Speaker 3: those extremes and by the way, Steve, that's where quail

1711
01:47:43,720 --> 01:47:46,920
Speaker 3: safe becomes critical. Those quail will bore down through the snow.

1712
01:47:47,120 --> 01:47:49,640
Speaker 3: Have we got the videos They want to get in

1713
01:47:49,680 --> 01:47:52,040
Speaker 3: there and eat, and because they can't get to the

1714
01:47:52,040 --> 01:47:54,640
Speaker 3: feed on the ground with snow. So if you go

1715
01:47:54,720 --> 01:47:58,519
Speaker 3: to that website, you'll see you'll see the quail. They

1716
01:47:58,520 --> 01:48:00,840
Speaker 3: get them a little tunnel to go in and feed,

1717
01:48:01,479 --> 01:48:04,800
Speaker 3: and anything we can do I'm looking at it as

1718
01:48:04,840 --> 01:48:11,080
Speaker 3: a conservationist and anything we can do to help sustain

1719
01:48:11,400 --> 01:48:12,560
Speaker 3: those populations.

1720
01:48:12,960 --> 01:48:16,120
Speaker 4: I think it's just an interesting question when we think about,

1721
01:48:16,160 --> 01:48:20,559
Speaker 4: you know, making drugs available for for animals, as you know,

1722
01:48:20,920 --> 01:48:25,400
Speaker 4: beyond the habitat question, right, isn't this I don't isn't

1723
01:48:25,400 --> 01:48:28,479
Speaker 4: there something out there for wild sheep? And so this

1724
01:48:28,640 --> 01:48:30,920
Speaker 4: is the second that drug for.

1725
01:48:31,200 --> 01:48:33,320
Speaker 1: Not something that you cannot something that you can go

1726
01:48:33,400 --> 01:48:34,800
Speaker 1: a private person can go by.

1727
01:48:35,080 --> 01:48:38,240
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's it was. It was for sheep, but that

1728
01:48:38,360 --> 01:48:43,160
Speaker 3: was an agency that wasn't publicly available. No, that's why

1729
01:48:43,400 --> 01:48:47,280
Speaker 3: this was so unique. And they used the trough that

1730
01:48:47,320 --> 01:48:50,200
Speaker 3: the sheep came and bighorn sheep came and ate out of,

1731
01:48:50,280 --> 01:48:53,080
Speaker 3: and they offered them a drug for lung lungworm. But

1732
01:48:53,160 --> 01:48:57,800
Speaker 3: that was agency driven. So what I'm saying, and I was,

1733
01:48:58,160 --> 01:49:00,680
Speaker 3: I was very proud that FDA they worked with me

1734
01:49:00,760 --> 01:49:03,760
Speaker 3: on this because this was the first time that a

1735
01:49:03,840 --> 01:49:08,760
Speaker 3: wildlife species was It was a drug register for a

1736
01:49:08,800 --> 01:49:12,960
Speaker 3: wildlife species and their native habitat that was going to

1737
01:49:13,000 --> 01:49:17,519
Speaker 3: be made commercially available, not an agency. So that's what

1738
01:49:17,680 --> 01:49:24,800
Speaker 3: made it the journey so complicated and and to be honest,

1739
01:49:25,520 --> 01:49:29,960
Speaker 3: FDA was very difficult. They held us to the same

1740
01:49:30,000 --> 01:49:32,720
Speaker 3: standards as the drug companies and they don't work with

1741
01:49:32,960 --> 01:49:39,879
Speaker 3: universities very much. Because I met with a drug company

1742
01:49:40,040 --> 01:49:42,720
Speaker 3: with their vice president of research and they said to

1743
01:49:42,760 --> 01:49:45,760
Speaker 3: do something like this for a new registration for a

1744
01:49:45,800 --> 01:49:51,000
Speaker 3: new species, they budget ten years. Okay, so universities turn

1745
01:49:51,080 --> 01:49:53,680
Speaker 3: over so much in ten years. The students come and

1746
01:49:53,680 --> 01:49:56,080
Speaker 3: go you know what I mean. Whereas a drug company,

1747
01:49:56,479 --> 01:49:58,320
Speaker 3: they got a whole lot of people that can work

1748
01:49:58,360 --> 01:50:03,600
Speaker 3: on this. FDA wasn't really used to working with professors,

1749
01:50:04,200 --> 01:50:08,639
Speaker 3: but they did work with me. I had an assigned

1750
01:50:08,680 --> 01:50:11,160
Speaker 3: project officer that stayed with me the whole way through,

1751
01:50:11,720 --> 01:50:17,280
Speaker 3: and she was wonderful and so and then I had

1752
01:50:17,320 --> 01:50:21,120
Speaker 3: to deal with all these different entities within the agency,

1753
01:50:21,479 --> 01:50:24,720
Speaker 3: with all the components I've been talking about. So this

1754
01:50:24,840 --> 01:50:29,760
Speaker 3: thing's been really rigorously evaluated, and they made it real

1755
01:50:29,840 --> 01:50:33,000
Speaker 3: clear we're not We're gonna hold you to the same

1756
01:50:33,080 --> 01:50:35,559
Speaker 3: standards we hold drug companies. You can have to do

1757
01:50:35,720 --> 01:50:38,479
Speaker 3: everything we told you to do, and that's it. So

1758
01:50:39,600 --> 01:50:41,880
Speaker 3: I was kind of proud that we did it in

1759
01:50:41,960 --> 01:50:47,439
Speaker 3: eight years instead of ten, but my sponsors thought it

1760
01:50:47,520 --> 01:50:51,720
Speaker 3: was forever, and oh many it was rough, Steve, but

1761
01:50:52,479 --> 01:50:54,479
Speaker 3: they all thought she could just be able to get

1762
01:50:54,479 --> 01:50:58,479
Speaker 3: done next year. You know, I was explaining, listen, like

1763
01:50:58,600 --> 01:51:03,200
Speaker 3: on some of these prides or massive amount of data, okay,

1764
01:51:03,760 --> 01:51:07,800
Speaker 3: and and the FDA, when I turned a project, then

1765
01:51:08,479 --> 01:51:11,559
Speaker 3: they would get six months to look at it. Six

1766
01:51:11,640 --> 01:51:15,519
Speaker 3: months and then if they had any questions and you

1767
01:51:15,560 --> 01:51:18,840
Speaker 3: had to redo anything, and you had to resubmit it,

1768
01:51:18,840 --> 01:51:22,080
Speaker 3: they'd get six more months. So I mean it would

1769
01:51:22,200 --> 01:51:27,240
Speaker 3: drive me crazy. I tell you, you noticed my my hair

1770
01:51:27,360 --> 01:51:31,760
Speaker 3: wasn't this gray in twenty twelve, and I'm telling you

1771
01:51:31,840 --> 01:51:36,040
Speaker 3: it was. It was. It was the toughest thing I've

1772
01:51:36,040 --> 01:51:39,120
Speaker 3: ever done. But I you know, I had great students,

1773
01:51:39,680 --> 01:51:45,439
Speaker 3: a great team. I want to acknowledge my assistant Tammy Hendrix,

1774
01:51:45,439 --> 01:51:48,919
Speaker 3: who was terrific, been with me for twenty five years,

1775
01:51:49,600 --> 01:51:54,040
Speaker 3: and she stood right by me through the whole. She's

1776
01:51:54,080 --> 01:51:58,800
Speaker 3: not she's she's still younger. But some days I'd walk

1777
01:51:58,880 --> 01:52:02,080
Speaker 3: into her office just shaking my head. She said, don't worry.

1778
01:52:02,080 --> 01:52:04,439
Speaker 3: We're going to get through it one day. So we

1779
01:52:04,560 --> 01:52:10,320
Speaker 3: actually had a party in Fort Worth associated with that

1780
01:52:10,439 --> 01:52:13,439
Speaker 3: scientific meeting I mentioned earlier in the in the in

1781
01:52:14,280 --> 01:52:18,680
Speaker 3: the podcast drug Party Society of It of Environmental Toxicology

1782
01:52:18,680 --> 01:52:21,679
Speaker 3: and Chemistry. So I had some of my past students,

1783
01:52:21,760 --> 01:52:26,479
Speaker 3: current students and and Tammy and uh, we just really

1784
01:52:26,520 --> 01:52:30,439
Speaker 3: had a great time finally getting through that. But I've

1785
01:52:30,520 --> 01:52:35,320
Speaker 3: just had wonderful people and one wonderful students, and very

1786
01:52:35,360 --> 01:52:40,040
Speaker 3: thankful about that, and thankful the family's help. And like

1787
01:52:40,080 --> 01:52:46,240
Speaker 3: I said, my son, I'd never when we started off

1788
01:52:46,280 --> 01:52:50,479
Speaker 3: with quail safe when I I had to find some

1789
01:52:50,600 --> 01:52:52,760
Speaker 3: way I could show the FDA we could get those

1790
01:52:52,920 --> 01:52:58,599
Speaker 3: quail to come into to some some kind of system

1791
01:52:58,840 --> 01:53:02,240
Speaker 3: where we could we could target them. And uh and so,

1792
01:53:02,800 --> 01:53:06,800
Speaker 3: like I said, uh, uh you'll you'll find the website

1793
01:53:07,080 --> 01:53:09,679
Speaker 3: quailsafe dot com is fascinating. Yeah.

1794
01:53:09,680 --> 01:53:11,800
Speaker 1: I want to congratulate on the whole thing. But before

1795
01:53:11,840 --> 01:53:14,759
Speaker 1: we wrap though, tell people, like, what's what's the best

1796
01:53:14,800 --> 01:53:20,200
Speaker 1: single place they can go to to see what's going

1797
01:53:20,280 --> 01:53:23,040
Speaker 1: on and figure out if it's right for their property

1798
01:53:23,080 --> 01:53:25,640
Speaker 1: and is to go to quailsafe dot com.

1799
01:53:25,840 --> 01:53:27,920
Speaker 3: Guy will go to quailsafe dot com until you.

1800
01:53:27,920 --> 01:53:29,400
Speaker 1: Get you can buy all you can buy all the

1801
01:53:29,400 --> 01:53:33,080
Speaker 1: stuff you need there. Yeah, yeah, excellent, man, I appreciate

1802
01:53:34,520 --> 01:53:41,240
Speaker 1: Uh again, Doctor Ron Kendall, Professor of Toxicality, Texas Tech University,

1803
01:53:41,439 --> 01:53:45,719
Speaker 1: go to quailsafe dot com to check out the work. Also,

1804
01:53:45,880 --> 01:53:47,680
Speaker 1: can you name the two foundations you've been working with?

1805
01:53:47,760 --> 01:53:52,720
Speaker 3: Yeah, the two foundations, Uh, Park City's Quail Coalition they

1806
01:53:52,760 --> 01:53:58,439
Speaker 3: have a nice website and uh and the Roading Planes

1807
01:53:58,479 --> 01:53:59,800
Speaker 3: Quail Research Foundation.

1808
01:54:00,720 --> 01:54:03,880
Speaker 6: Something for I'm not gonna eat any more chocolate covered grasshoppers.

1809
01:54:03,880 --> 01:54:17,440
Speaker 7: That's I remember the nights when I was seventeen.

1810
01:54:18,439 --> 01:54:23,680
Speaker 8: Men them dogs feed down by the crib e Marlborough

1811
01:54:23,840 --> 01:54:28,320
Speaker 8: light in the little gyming. They'll ball on the track

1812
01:54:28,479 --> 01:54:29,920
Speaker 8: and they chop win.

1813
01:54:29,960 --> 01:54:30,680
Speaker 1: The trees.

1814
01:54:34,200 --> 01:54:39,200
Speaker 8: Activase souther Ridge where we cut out. I sit on

1815
01:54:39,760 --> 01:54:45,080
Speaker 8: tailgate and eat for a sound leavine clyde at.

1816
01:54:45,120 --> 01:54:46,720
Speaker 1: Their nose to the ground.

1817
01:54:47,120 --> 01:54:50,800
Speaker 8: Well, the last of our time we were hunters. Now

1818
01:54:55,080 --> 01:55:00,680
Speaker 8: up from shows, now in fields, down through the haller

1819
01:55:01,080 --> 01:55:05,360
Speaker 8: back up through the hills. Lord, saving my soul, and

1820
01:55:05,840 --> 01:55:10,360
Speaker 8: leave me see what these old hounds have put up

1821
01:55:10,480 --> 01:55:17,680
Speaker 8: this tree. Well, now hunters towns ain't but a few

1822
01:55:17,960 --> 01:55:22,280
Speaker 8: left round. They've cut all timber, and the old timers

1823
01:55:22,440 --> 01:55:27,560
Speaker 8: died out the one shining Friday in the leaves on ground.

1824
01:55:31,400 --> 01:55:32,360
Speaker 8: We're the last of.

1825
01:55:32,440 --> 01:55:34,600
Speaker 3: All time we were hunters.

1826
01:55:34,960 --> 01:55:40,840
Speaker 8: Now he had a job for all of the bag

1827
01:55:41,000 --> 01:55:45,720
Speaker 8: and a shirt pocket lid. I remember saying that. And

1828
01:55:45,920 --> 01:55:49,280
Speaker 8: old man want said one of them when you can,

1829
01:55:49,520 --> 01:55:54,400
Speaker 8: and keep him good fed, sun lost lost in run

1830
01:55:54,560 --> 01:55:59,640
Speaker 8: over his dead. Well, Now hunters towns ain't but a

1831
01:55:59,720 --> 01:56:03,440
Speaker 8: few who left the round the godden mu stimber and

1832
01:56:03,560 --> 01:56:08,440
Speaker 8: the old timers died of the one shining Friday.

1833
01:56:08,000 --> 01:56:10,320
Speaker 3: And the leaves on the ground.

1834
01:56:13,920 --> 01:56:15,680
Speaker 8: Were the last of our kind.

1835
01:56:15,840 --> 01:56:29,440
Speaker 1: We were on hers nash