WEBVTT - Marie Besnard: Undertaker's Best Friend? 0:00:00.160 --> 0:00:03.800 Welcome to Criminalia, a production of Shonda Land Audio in 0:00:03.880 --> 0:00:11.719 partnership with I Heart Radio. Hello, and welcome to Criminalia. 0:00:12.200 --> 0:00:15.600 I'm Holly Fry and I'm Maria Trumrqui. And this week 0:00:15.760 --> 0:00:18.520 we are talking about a woman named Marie bay Now 0:00:19.160 --> 0:00:22.040 and she had a knack for getting ahead in life 0:00:22.600 --> 0:00:25.880 by employing poison. Uh. That is how she eventually gained 0:00:25.880 --> 0:00:28.880 her nickname, which was the Black Widow, likening her, of 0:00:28.920 --> 0:00:32.800 course to the spiders that killed their mates for money. Uh, 0:00:33.120 --> 0:00:37.720 at least once they had served their purpose. The most 0:00:37.760 --> 0:00:40.800 amazing thing about Marieo not that she was accused of 0:00:40.840 --> 0:00:43.520 poisoning at least a dozen people, but that she got 0:00:43.520 --> 0:00:46.920 away with it and with each time she got wealthier. 0:00:47.520 --> 0:01:01.520 Spoiler alert. I know. Marie was born Davao to a 0:01:01.560 --> 0:01:05.959 farming family in lou De France, in and she was 0:01:06.080 --> 0:01:08.800 educated at a convent school, not all that unusual for 0:01:08.800 --> 0:01:11.800 the place and time, and she was remembered by her 0:01:11.880 --> 0:01:17.759 classmates though as being quote vicious and immoral and wild 0:01:17.880 --> 0:01:21.440 with boys. Well you know, they also described her as 0:01:21.480 --> 0:01:24.120 a mean so she didn't really curry a lot of 0:01:24.120 --> 0:01:27.840 favor from early child. When she was twenty four, so 0:01:27.880 --> 0:01:29.920 we're fast forwarding a little bit to which she's an adult. 0:01:29.959 --> 0:01:34.120 She married her cousin, August Aunty. The two actually were 0:01:34.200 --> 0:01:37.520 first cousins. Um. The way that that worked out was 0:01:37.640 --> 0:01:41.240 her mother was his father's sister. Now, this was not 0:01:41.319 --> 0:01:46.280 an arranged marriage. This was just your yeah, just the 0:01:47.160 --> 0:01:51.880 just just a friendly cousin marriage. Moving along, So these 0:01:51.920 --> 0:01:55.720 two cousins in love had been married for seven years 0:01:56.200 --> 0:01:59.880 when August became ill and he died and the official 0:02:00.040 --> 0:02:03.720 cause of his death was listed as tuberculosis. But where 0:02:03.720 --> 0:02:05.920 we're going to find out later is that he did 0:02:05.920 --> 0:02:09.320 not die of TV or, as it was commonly called 0:02:09.360 --> 0:02:13.440 at the time, the galloping consumption. Um. But let's not 0:02:13.560 --> 0:02:18.040 gallop ahead of ourselves. So when he died, Marie's husband 0:02:18.120 --> 0:02:22.120 left her seven thousand, two hundred forty francs. And while 0:02:22.160 --> 0:02:25.080 that wasn't like a huge amount, she wasn't set for life. 0:02:25.280 --> 0:02:29.160 It also was not a meager sum to come into right. Um. 0:02:29.200 --> 0:02:31.160 She was still she was living with her parents, and 0:02:31.200 --> 0:02:33.280 say she didn't have to worry about her rent or anything. 0:02:33.280 --> 0:02:36.119 This was her money. Um. When she was thirty one, 0:02:36.560 --> 0:02:38.440 that's when she became a widow. And it didn't take 0:02:38.520 --> 0:02:40.760 very long for her friends to start encouraging her to 0:02:40.800 --> 0:02:44.040 find another husband, as she that's what one did at 0:02:44.040 --> 0:02:47.840 the time. Her parents, too, encouraged her to remarry, although 0:02:47.960 --> 0:02:50.239 they may have been more concerned about gaining an extra 0:02:50.280 --> 0:02:53.600 hand for their farm than about Marie's love life or 0:02:53.600 --> 0:02:57.680 her personal security. Listen, I'm from farm stock. I understand 0:02:57.720 --> 0:03:01.400 this ideology. I'm not saying it anything wrong with that. 0:03:01.440 --> 0:03:03.200 It just, you know, like wishing your daughter to be 0:03:03.240 --> 0:03:05.720 in love is also a good thing, right. There's a 0:03:05.840 --> 0:03:07.720 there's a reason that a lot of farm families have 0:03:07.800 --> 0:03:10.360 late in life babies, and it's because the more hands 0:03:10.400 --> 0:03:14.800 I'm not kidding, right. Grieving for her husband, Marie initially 0:03:14.840 --> 0:03:18.679 turned down every potential suitor that her friends and family suggested, 0:03:19.600 --> 0:03:24.480 but then in Marie met Leon Bernard, and it is 0:03:24.520 --> 0:03:28.919 said that her cousin Pascaline made this match and remarried 0:03:29.000 --> 0:03:32.040 him within a year after her first husband's death. Ley 0:03:32.080 --> 0:03:35.160 All ran a saddle and harness shop which was about 0:03:35.640 --> 0:03:38.480 forty eight miles away from her parents farm, and although 0:03:38.520 --> 0:03:42.440 their marriage remained childless and there were some rumors about infidelity, 0:03:42.480 --> 0:03:44.520 we'll talk a little bit about that, the two of 0:03:44.560 --> 0:03:47.560 them actually appeared to be a pretty contented couple together. 0:03:48.200 --> 0:03:51.560 Neighbors and friends could never recall ever seeing them fight. 0:03:52.000 --> 0:03:54.880 So Leon had a nickname for his new ride, which 0:03:54.920 --> 0:03:58.320 was Moose, which means fly in French. And I'm actually 0:03:58.320 --> 0:04:01.120 really not sure if that should be in the positive 0:04:01.400 --> 0:04:07.160 or the negative category of their relationship, but there it is. Uh. 0:04:07.200 --> 0:04:11.240 You know, it's also common for French people to call 0:04:11.320 --> 0:04:14.960 their beloved a cabbage. So great it could be perfectly 0:04:15.000 --> 0:04:18.760 lovely like and and among couples, you know, you never 0:04:18.800 --> 0:04:20.520 you never know what's going on between people, like it 0:04:20.560 --> 0:04:24.240 might have been a very loving, happy, funny nickname. It 0:04:24.279 --> 0:04:25.760 could have just been that she was a past I 0:04:25.760 --> 0:04:29.920 have no idea sweet little fly because it's French. It 0:04:30.000 --> 0:04:34.880 sounds cute, it's right. Over the years, Leon and Marie 0:04:35.200 --> 0:04:38.480 actually became pretty wealthy. They did really well for themselves. 0:04:38.560 --> 0:04:41.760 They ended up owning six houses, They had an inn, 0:04:41.839 --> 0:04:44.800 they had a cafe, and they also owned two farms 0:04:44.880 --> 0:04:47.159 where they bred horses. So not too bad. So that's 0:04:47.200 --> 0:04:51.240 that's money. Yeah. Um. Not very long after they got married, 0:04:51.360 --> 0:04:53.920 Leon began disappearing in the evenings and it was not 0:04:54.080 --> 0:04:57.640 for work. Uh, And the local gossips didn't hesitate to 0:04:57.680 --> 0:05:01.119 point an accusatory finger at two women in particular in town. 0:05:01.640 --> 0:05:05.520 One they told Marie was her cousin Pasquleen Um, the 0:05:05.680 --> 0:05:09.280 very same woman who had introduced the two um. And 0:05:09.279 --> 0:05:11.479 he was also said to be having an affair with 0:05:11.560 --> 0:05:16.320 the postmistress Louise Pinto. And it turns out that Leon 0:05:16.680 --> 0:05:19.760 did have a roving eye, but it always seemed like 0:05:19.839 --> 0:05:23.240 Marie just kind of turned a blind eye to his indiscretions. 0:05:24.080 --> 0:05:28.400 When he died in October of nine, his doctor did 0:05:28.400 --> 0:05:31.839 not list the cause of death as anything suspicious. It 0:05:31.920 --> 0:05:37.640 was listed as euremia. So, knowing what Marie's future would hold, 0:05:38.040 --> 0:05:42.520 as we have this great perspective, his cause of death 0:05:42.600 --> 0:05:45.640 is actually pretty interesting, okay. And this is why. So 0:05:45.680 --> 0:05:48.760 this is a condition that most commonly develops when you've 0:05:48.800 --> 0:05:52.239 already been diagnosed with chronic kidney disease. This isn't something 0:05:52.279 --> 0:05:54.039 that you're just like, oh, like a U T I 0:05:54.160 --> 0:05:57.039 or something, you know. This is something that's long standing 0:05:57.120 --> 0:06:00.480 disease or your kidneys. Um happens when all the toxic 0:06:00.520 --> 0:06:03.239 waste products in your body start to build up because 0:06:03.240 --> 0:06:06.120 your kidneys just can't remove them from you anymore. And 0:06:06.480 --> 0:06:08.800 once they get to a toxic level that can be fatal. 0:06:09.839 --> 0:06:12.080 So here is why we are telling you all of 0:06:12.120 --> 0:06:15.520 this and why it is interesting. This type of kidney 0:06:15.600 --> 0:06:20.240 damage can also be caused by repeated long term exposure 0:06:20.440 --> 0:06:33.040 to arsenic what's happening in this little French town chill domage. 0:06:35.720 --> 0:06:39.400 So though the investigation into the murders surrounding Marie initially 0:06:39.480 --> 0:06:42.840 focused only on the death of Leon Um, we'll get 0:06:42.880 --> 0:06:46.040 to that. It turns out that she wasn't just targeting 0:06:46.440 --> 0:06:52.120 a husband. When we come back, we're gonna expose Marie 0:06:52.360 --> 0:07:06.000 as a serial poisoner. Welcome back to Criminalia, where we're 0:07:06.040 --> 0:07:10.600 about to name Marie's targets. So, nine years before Leon 0:07:10.720 --> 0:07:16.680 Bernard died of uremia, Leon's great aunt, Madame Marie Louise 0:07:16.800 --> 0:07:20.840 le Comte, died, presumably of natural causes due to her 0:07:20.880 --> 0:07:23.920 old age. She was eighty six at the time and 0:07:24.000 --> 0:07:26.920 she had been ill for a considerable period before this. 0:07:27.720 --> 0:07:30.480 It was actually Marie who was sort of her nursemaid 0:07:30.560 --> 0:07:33.600 and cared for her at the end of her life. So, 0:07:33.760 --> 0:07:36.320 because she had never had any children, there was great 0:07:36.360 --> 0:07:39.760 speculation over who would be remembered in her will, and 0:07:39.800 --> 0:07:42.600 the whole family knew that Marie Louise had a considerable 0:07:42.640 --> 0:07:46.920 amount of satings, and Marie and Leon thought that they 0:07:46.920 --> 0:07:50.040 were going to be the recipients of her wealth. After all, 0:07:50.120 --> 0:07:51.960 she had moved in with them at that point and 0:07:52.080 --> 0:07:55.280 Marie had been her caregiver. But it turned out it 0:07:55.400 --> 0:07:57.520 was neither of them that was named in the will. 0:07:57.880 --> 0:08:03.160 Leon's parents, who were still alive, inherited everything, furious they 0:08:03.160 --> 0:08:06.640 received nothing for their good deeds. Neither Marie nor Leon 0:08:06.760 --> 0:08:10.040 attended the funeral and the second death that Marie is 0:08:10.080 --> 0:08:12.360 accused of at this point, because remember we're going back 0:08:12.400 --> 0:08:19.840 in time before her husband is actually her husband's best friend. Interestingly, 0:08:19.960 --> 0:08:22.960 according to some accounts of this story, Toussaint was one 0:08:23.000 --> 0:08:24.760 of the men Marie may or may not have had 0:08:24.760 --> 0:08:28.280 an affair with. Maybe there were some infidelities in this marriage. 0:08:28.600 --> 0:08:32.440 The other affair speculation was that there was a German 0:08:32.480 --> 0:08:36.479 handyman who worked at their home and on their farm. 0:08:36.520 --> 0:08:39.439 Marie's infidelities, though may or may not have been factual. 0:08:39.880 --> 0:08:42.280 Both men denied the affairs over the years, and Marie 0:08:42.360 --> 0:08:45.600 never seems to have even addressed them. Uh. This is 0:08:45.640 --> 0:08:48.760 probably the gossip mill in her small town at its 0:08:48.840 --> 0:08:52.200 finest but you never know, because sometimes rumors have bases 0:08:52.200 --> 0:08:55.960 in fact. So to go back to that first person, 0:08:56.000 --> 0:09:00.360 Maria mentioned to Saint Rivas and his wife Blanche may 0:09:00.440 --> 0:09:04.040 have actually been borders in Marie and Leon's home, or 0:09:04.040 --> 0:09:06.640 they might have actually just been neighbors. The record gets 0:09:06.640 --> 0:09:09.320 a little unclear on this point, but what we do 0:09:09.440 --> 0:09:13.120 know is that Toussaint and Leon were very good friends, 0:09:13.240 --> 0:09:15.480 so to still have been unwell, and Marie had helped 0:09:15.520 --> 0:09:17.920 his wife care for him during this time. He wasn't 0:09:17.920 --> 0:09:20.400 a poor man. I read in one source that he 0:09:20.480 --> 0:09:23.240 was a baker, but I couldn't verify that really anywhere. Um, 0:09:23.760 --> 0:09:26.080 he was a poor when he died, and probably no 0:09:26.200 --> 0:09:29.040 surprise that his wife was named as his soul heir 0:09:29.120 --> 0:09:31.600 in his will. As one does. This was really not 0:09:32.240 --> 0:09:36.240 acceptable for Marie. She felt once again as though she 0:09:36.280 --> 0:09:38.840 had been slighted since she had once again been his 0:09:38.960 --> 0:09:42.600 deathbed caregiver. But as we'll see, she had some other 0:09:42.640 --> 0:09:47.680 projects going on. Was definitely this is definitely a woman 0:09:47.720 --> 0:09:51.280 who knew how to diversify her potential revenue streams. That's 0:09:51.320 --> 0:09:56.640 one way I'm saying it again, through nefarious means, but 0:09:56.760 --> 0:09:59.520 it's still a revenue stream, right, She's she's making herself 0:09:59.520 --> 0:10:02.600 wealthy here. Um. So it was Marie's father who was 0:10:02.640 --> 0:10:06.160 the next pass away. In May of nine, which was 0:10:06.200 --> 0:10:10.200 about ten months after Toussaint's death. Marie and her mother 0:10:10.280 --> 0:10:13.199 shared the assets, which included two farms, and after her 0:10:13.200 --> 0:10:16.000 father's death, Marie's mother moved in with her and Leon 0:10:16.800 --> 0:10:20.120 never move in with Marie. Leon, yes, that they just 0:10:20.160 --> 0:10:23.880 don't board at their house. Good life advice, solid life advice. 0:10:24.320 --> 0:10:30.280 It's like dine with the Borges, right, yes, uh, which 0:10:30.320 --> 0:10:33.960 makes they're in a whole fascinating right, I think. Didn't 0:10:33.960 --> 0:10:44.640 they have a cafe to she were delicious? Just four 0:10:44.679 --> 0:10:48.520 months after the death of Marie's father, Leon's grandmother fell 0:10:48.600 --> 0:10:51.640 ill and Marie stepped into care for her, and when 0:10:51.720 --> 0:10:56.240 dear Colmer died, she left her assets once again, they 0:10:56.240 --> 0:10:59.000 went to Leon's parents. So if it sounds like it's 0:10:59.000 --> 0:11:03.679 a bad time to be Leon's parents, it was. Yeah. 0:11:03.679 --> 0:11:09.520 A short two months later, Leon's father accidentally eight poisonous 0:11:09.600 --> 0:11:13.240 mushrooms and collapsed and died, and he had willed his 0:11:13.280 --> 0:11:16.280 assets to his wife, So now she had all the 0:11:16.360 --> 0:11:20.520 things as also makes sense. So as you might imagine 0:11:20.800 --> 0:11:23.840 as we continue down this list of victims. Leon's mother 0:11:24.240 --> 0:11:27.960 was not a widow for very long um. Four months. 0:11:28.360 --> 0:11:32.839 That's a really short time. Four months after Leon's father's death. Um. 0:11:32.880 --> 0:11:36.400 Where that puts us now in January of one For 0:11:36.440 --> 0:11:41.120 anybody who's keeping score here, Uh, Leon's mother fell ill um. 0:11:41.240 --> 0:11:46.079 So guess who nursed her on her deathbed? Marie. So 0:11:46.160 --> 0:11:48.680 here's the thing. You would think the line of the 0:11:48.800 --> 0:11:51.360 line of deaths for them to finally get this at 0:11:51.400 --> 0:11:55.199 this point accumulated hefty inheritance would go right to them, 0:11:55.240 --> 0:11:59.760 but no, neither Marie nor Leon were named in the will. Instead, 0:12:00.480 --> 0:12:03.800 Leon's mother left all of her assets to her daughter, 0:12:04.000 --> 0:12:08.959 Leon's sister, Lucy. Two months go by after Leon's mother's death, 0:12:09.120 --> 0:12:12.319 and Leon discovers that his sister Lucy had hanged herself 0:12:12.360 --> 0:12:14.679 in her home. So, while we don't know very much 0:12:14.720 --> 0:12:17.760 about Lucy or her story, which is very clearly a 0:12:17.760 --> 0:12:22.240 tragic one. Her death was suicide, not by poison, it 0:12:22.360 --> 0:12:26.240 is still an interesting death in Marie's lineup because Lucy 0:12:26.400 --> 0:12:29.000 didn't have a will when she died, and she had 0:12:29.040 --> 0:12:32.160 at this point just inherited a whole lot of real 0:12:32.320 --> 0:12:35.360 estate and a substantial amount of money from her parents. 0:12:35.600 --> 0:12:37.760 I mean, I think it was fairly substantial. It was 0:12:37.800 --> 0:12:40.360 like close to like three thousand francs or something, and 0:12:40.440 --> 0:12:42.800 like at least two houses. It was. It was a 0:12:42.920 --> 0:12:47.240 nice chunk that I'm sure Marie thought should be hers. 0:12:48.000 --> 0:12:50.800 Um So during the time she knew Marie. It said 0:12:50.800 --> 0:12:54.200 that Lucy had remarked at least once um and we 0:12:54.320 --> 0:12:57.560 quote this, I will not leave that Marie woman even 0:12:57.600 --> 0:13:01.320 a teaspoon, so that a woman really kind of says 0:13:01.320 --> 0:13:04.520 it all, doesn't it like, But under French law, her 0:13:04.559 --> 0:13:07.280 assets without a will would go to her next of kin, 0:13:07.440 --> 0:13:10.400 and that was Leon. Uh. Yeah, I think that Lucy 0:13:10.480 --> 0:13:14.400 probably talked to Marie's classmates. Maybe they didn't. She's she's mad, 0:13:14.640 --> 0:13:19.200 She's like none of them liked him. So less than 0:13:19.280 --> 0:13:23.560 a year after Lucy's suicide, Blanche, remember she was to 0:13:23.679 --> 0:13:28.000 Saint Rivet's widow, also died and Marie had stayed by 0:13:28.040 --> 0:13:32.040 her side as she lay dying, and Leon very thoughtfully 0:13:32.320 --> 0:13:34.880 bought her house right out from under her. What happened 0:13:34.880 --> 0:13:38.560 there was under a life annuity contract, which you can 0:13:38.600 --> 0:13:40.640 still do now. It was very popular at the time 0:13:40.679 --> 0:13:43.120 in France. An ownership of Blanche's house would have been 0:13:43.320 --> 0:13:46.280 transferred to Leon and he would pay her monthly until 0:13:46.320 --> 0:13:50.559 she died. But she died so quickly that he actually 0:13:50.600 --> 0:13:53.839 never ended up having to pay her anything. So Blanche a, 0:13:53.880 --> 0:13:57.240 grateful for Marie's comfort, is the one person who did 0:13:57.400 --> 0:14:01.920 name Marie as her soul heir in her will. Finally right, 0:14:02.440 --> 0:14:05.040 She's like, I'm getting the recognition I deserve. She's like, 0:14:05.080 --> 0:14:07.760 I feel all whole now I can just take my money. 0:14:07.800 --> 0:14:10.080 And I don't think she ever felt whole, But that's 0:14:10.120 --> 0:14:13.480 my speculation. I think A probably onto something there. So, 0:14:14.640 --> 0:14:19.520 but for three years it was quiet in her family. 0:14:20.000 --> 0:14:22.560 Three years went by without any deaths among Marie and 0:14:22.640 --> 0:14:25.680 Leon's friends and family, and they spent this time just 0:14:25.760 --> 0:14:30.160 generally buying things and enjoying their wealth. But you know, 0:14:30.240 --> 0:14:32.800 they've had a lot of mourning and death, so people 0:14:32.800 --> 0:14:35.320 probably thought, oh, at last they're getting to have a 0:14:35.320 --> 0:14:39.000 good time. They were black all the time, right, the 0:14:39.000 --> 0:14:47.440 Baynard's are finally enjoying life. Yes, good for them. In 0:14:49.160 --> 0:14:53.040 Marie's elderly cousins, Pauline and Virginie were the next to go. 0:14:54.080 --> 0:14:57.000 The two of them had made that foolish mistake of 0:14:57.080 --> 0:15:01.800 moving in with the Baynard's and Marie was carry for them. 0:15:01.840 --> 0:15:06.720 This gets so strange because under Marie's care, first Pauline 0:15:06.760 --> 0:15:10.280 died after she mistook a bowl of Lie left on 0:15:10.320 --> 0:15:13.760 the counter for her dessert one night. Now, I do 0:15:13.840 --> 0:15:17.280 want to say that lie at the time, it wasn't 0:15:17.320 --> 0:15:19.600 so weird to have it on the counter because you 0:15:19.640 --> 0:15:22.800 could wash your dishes with it, right, But the idea 0:15:22.960 --> 0:15:25.080 that you would mistake it for like a bowl of 0:15:25.120 --> 0:15:28.960 ice cream or something seems really suspicious. Um. And the 0:15:29.040 --> 0:15:32.400 other thing that's really suspicious is that amazing as it 0:15:32.480 --> 0:15:37.320 may sound, Virsionie made the very same mistake not even 0:15:37.360 --> 0:15:43.760 a week later. So this might be a good teachable moment. Uh. 0:15:44.160 --> 0:15:47.280 Just as a rule of thumb, don't eat things you 0:15:47.320 --> 0:15:50.800 find left behind on the counter, but if they look 0:15:50.880 --> 0:15:56.280 like ice cream. Um. And I have a I have 0:15:56.360 --> 0:15:59.320 a family member who accidentally ate a spoonful of butter 0:15:59.400 --> 0:16:02.400 that way and they are horrified it. But when you 0:16:02.520 --> 0:16:05.920 discover it's fly also, I'm like, how much did they 0:16:05.960 --> 0:16:08.480 eat before they realize? Like? Were they just what's going on? 0:16:08.760 --> 0:16:10.360 I would think that it would sort of feel funny 0:16:10.360 --> 0:16:12.360 in the mouth before you would swallow, But I don't 0:16:12.360 --> 0:16:16.360 spit it out right. We know that both Pauline, as 0:16:16.360 --> 0:16:21.440 we said, and Virginie were poisoned. However it may not 0:16:21.600 --> 0:16:25.000 have been with Lie. Right. Um, you know this is 0:16:25.200 --> 0:16:28.240 sometimes it's just a it makes the story a little 0:16:28.280 --> 0:16:30.480 bit better. But when you when you go back and 0:16:30.520 --> 0:16:34.040 you recall what's going on, Lie doesn't necessarily make a 0:16:34.040 --> 0:16:36.520 lot of sense here. But hey, maybe it was like 0:16:36.800 --> 0:16:41.480 and we don't know, like this is the account given 0:16:42.280 --> 0:16:50.680 by Marie Baynard, right, yes, So, I mean sure her 0:16:50.760 --> 0:16:54.280 cousins really really dopey andate Lie. I thought it was dessert. 0:16:54.320 --> 0:16:57.240 I mean it probably won't surprise either that Marie and 0:16:57.320 --> 0:17:02.760 Leon were air to both of their will. However, so 0:17:02.920 --> 0:17:07.400 she made them a lie Sunday. Um not long, not 0:17:07.520 --> 0:17:11.919 long at all after Leon Emrie inherited both Pauline and 0:17:12.000 --> 0:17:16.080 Virginie estates, Leon, who was fifty five at this time, 0:17:16.600 --> 0:17:20.679 started to experience terrible abdominal pain and he also had 0:17:20.800 --> 0:17:25.240 vomiting and symptoms of kidney failure. He had a heart attack, 0:17:25.440 --> 0:17:28.280 and he finally fell into a coma and in October 0:17:28.280 --> 0:17:33.360 of nine he passed away, and there was only one 0:17:33.440 --> 0:17:36.280 heir named on his will. Like they had no children, 0:17:36.359 --> 0:17:39.040 he has lost his family and his sister. Uh so 0:17:39.240 --> 0:17:45.800 Marie inherited everything. But wait, there's there's one more. I 0:17:45.800 --> 0:17:48.280 feel like there there. We could all benefit from a 0:17:48.280 --> 0:17:50.639 flow chart at this point of like how the wealth 0:17:50.680 --> 0:17:53.520 has transferred and who has died and what's been accumulated. 0:17:53.840 --> 0:17:56.840 So right, so there's one more. Less than two years 0:17:56.920 --> 0:18:00.399 after her husband died, Marie's mother, who was elder and 0:18:00.600 --> 0:18:03.440 who was losing her sight, became sick with the flu, 0:18:03.520 --> 0:18:07.639 which was apparently um really quite strong that year, so 0:18:07.680 --> 0:18:09.840 everyone was sort of falling down with it. But at 0:18:09.840 --> 0:18:13.000 this point Marie was her mother's only air and her 0:18:13.040 --> 0:18:16.520 mother died and she inherited a sizeable nest egg from her. 0:18:16.840 --> 0:18:19.400 So this is once again maybe a good time to pause. 0:18:20.000 --> 0:18:22.240 We haven't even gotten to any of the crazy trial 0:18:22.280 --> 0:18:25.520 business yet, and when we returned, we're going to talk 0:18:25.560 --> 0:18:28.320 about why all of these deaths were not simply bad 0:18:28.400 --> 0:18:42.680 Bernard family luck. Welcome back to criminal Lea, where we're 0:18:42.680 --> 0:18:44.679 talking about how there was no such thing as the 0:18:44.680 --> 0:18:50.119 Bynard family chinks. Although the Bynards had suffered an extraordinary 0:18:50.200 --> 0:18:53.280 number of deaths in a really short period of time, 0:18:53.760 --> 0:18:56.480 still no one suspected that it was anything more than 0:18:56.520 --> 0:18:58.760 just bad luck. I mean, think about the number of 0:18:58.840 --> 0:19:02.359 funerals they went to, like what five years um The 0:19:02.440 --> 0:19:05.080 locals actually started referring to it as the Bynard family 0:19:05.160 --> 0:19:10.879 jinks until Leon died. And when he died, Marie inherited 0:19:11.040 --> 0:19:14.960 all of their accumulated wealth and she finally emerged as 0:19:14.960 --> 0:19:19.119 a suspect. But not at first, as it turns out 0:19:19.359 --> 0:19:23.679 that when he fell ill, Leon became suspicious of his 0:19:23.760 --> 0:19:27.760 wife and he told his possible lover, Louise, that Marie 0:19:27.960 --> 0:19:31.119 was trying to poison him. In the days after Leon's death, 0:19:31.680 --> 0:19:36.560 his possible mistress, Louise, concerned and very suspicious of Marie, 0:19:37.080 --> 0:19:41.159 sent a letter to the public Prosecutor's office, and initially 0:19:41.240 --> 0:19:44.360 her claim that Leon suspected his wife of poisoning him 0:19:44.720 --> 0:19:49.360 was just outright dismissed. But that, along with the suspicions 0:19:49.440 --> 0:19:52.560 of other citizens that had been brought to the prosecutor's 0:19:52.600 --> 0:19:56.439 office uh caused investigators to finally be swayed to at 0:19:56.520 --> 0:20:01.000 least take a cursory look into this vast swath of deaths. 0:20:01.480 --> 0:20:04.080 The first of the bodies that they exhumed was Marie's 0:20:04.119 --> 0:20:09.040 first husband, So dial it way back here two toxicologists 0:20:09.040 --> 0:20:12.880 found a significant amount of arsenic in his organs um, 0:20:13.119 --> 0:20:16.040 and so you know, maybe he didn't die of tuberculosis 0:20:16.080 --> 0:20:21.199 after all. And recall when we mentioned earlier that euremia 0:20:21.320 --> 0:20:24.639 can be caused by arsenic poisoning. When Marie's second husband 0:20:24.720 --> 0:20:28.840 was exhumed, an autopsy found that he too had ingested 0:20:28.920 --> 0:20:31.840 a large amount of arsenic over a period of time. 0:20:32.640 --> 0:20:35.280 So at this point, these two bodies both come back 0:20:35.320 --> 0:20:38.040 with arsenic, and the judge orders the bodies of every 0:20:38.080 --> 0:20:41.119 member of Marie's family who died within twenty five years 0:20:41.160 --> 0:20:43.960 before this to be exhumed. So by the time this 0:20:44.040 --> 0:20:48.480 investigation was over, fatal levels of arsenic had been found 0:20:48.560 --> 0:20:53.320 in eleven bodies. Each time a body was exhumed and 0:20:53.359 --> 0:20:55.800 then the findings were that it had been poisoned, the 0:20:55.880 --> 0:21:02.200 headlines would announce another one for Marie. So it's interesting 0:21:02.280 --> 0:21:05.200 to note that of all of the bodies that were exhumped, 0:21:05.680 --> 0:21:08.920 no arsenic was found in the remains of Marie's mother 0:21:08.960 --> 0:21:12.560 in law. Her cause of death had been pneumonia. So 0:21:12.680 --> 0:21:14.920 I mean, actually, perhaps this was really one case where 0:21:14.960 --> 0:21:19.000 mother Nature did the work for Marie. Yeah, she was 0:21:19.000 --> 0:21:22.639 probably like, who I can put the Arsenic away. Marie 0:21:23.119 --> 0:21:25.880 was arrested. That took place on July twenty one, nine 0:21:26.880 --> 0:21:29.160 and she was charged with the poisoning of a total 0:21:29.200 --> 0:21:34.480 of eleven people, including her two husbands, parents, two cousins, 0:21:34.560 --> 0:21:37.800 a great aunt, too close friends, and possibly a couple 0:21:37.840 --> 0:21:40.520 of in laws. She may have been accused of more 0:21:40.560 --> 0:21:44.879 than the poisonings, though there's an account of her trial report, 0:21:45.400 --> 0:21:48.480 and it only appears in in one write up of 0:21:48.520 --> 0:21:52.000 her trial that Marie was also accused of fraud. They 0:21:52.040 --> 0:21:54.840 reported that she had cashed pension payments that had been 0:21:54.840 --> 0:21:57.240 meant for one of her aunts, but it never comes 0:21:57.320 --> 0:22:00.520 up again. While awaiting trial, Marie's a turn Ernie A 0:22:00.640 --> 0:22:05.560 dapperman named Henri Ducluzzo explained her defense. He said, quote, 0:22:05.840 --> 0:22:09.320 in this country of good wines and fine living, one 0:22:09.400 --> 0:22:14.840 might possibly conceive of one murder, two murders, even three murders, 0:22:14.880 --> 0:22:18.280 but eleven murders. Reese first trial took a little while 0:22:18.320 --> 0:22:21.000 for it to begin. It begin in February. Remember she 0:22:21.040 --> 0:22:24.080 was arrested in Well, they had to dig up all 0:22:24.119 --> 0:22:26.000 those bodies and do tests. They did, and then that 0:22:26.080 --> 0:22:28.720 does take a while. Exhamations are not you don't rush 0:22:28.800 --> 0:22:32.840 them so in the courtroom, Marie's attorneys questioned the coroner's 0:22:32.920 --> 0:22:36.040 methods and the tests that we're being used for finding 0:22:36.160 --> 0:22:40.280 arsenic in a body. They accused the scientists who conducted 0:22:40.320 --> 0:22:44.080 the tests of mishandling evidence or in some cases altogether 0:22:44.200 --> 0:22:47.080 losing the evidence. They also led with a new theory 0:22:47.160 --> 0:22:50.560 suggesting that arsenic could enter a corpse from the soil 0:22:50.720 --> 0:22:54.320 around it through the actions of anaerobic bacteria, and no 0:22:54.359 --> 0:22:57.240 one tested the soil, so the defense could just go 0:22:57.359 --> 0:23:00.760 with that theory. Unable to come to any sort of verdict, 0:23:01.160 --> 0:23:03.919 the court ruled that it needed more time to review 0:23:03.960 --> 0:23:07.840 the scientific evidence and adjourned. So a new panel of 0:23:07.960 --> 0:23:10.760 experts comes in and it takes them two years to 0:23:10.800 --> 0:23:14.000 review the forensic evidence from the first trial. They were 0:23:14.000 --> 0:23:16.240 forced to eliminate five of the charges at this time 0:23:16.280 --> 0:23:18.600 because there actually was no longer in a physical evidence 0:23:18.640 --> 0:23:22.600 to test anything in the corps whatever they exhumed for arsenic. 0:23:22.800 --> 0:23:27.400 So Marie's second trial was also declared a mistrial. Seven 0:23:27.560 --> 0:23:31.280 years later, Marie went on trial again, but by now 0:23:31.320 --> 0:23:34.120 we are talking about nineteen sixty one, so that means 0:23:34.200 --> 0:23:38.000 that like over the twelve years since this all began, 0:23:38.280 --> 0:23:41.480 in a legal sense, even more of the physical evidence 0:23:41.520 --> 0:23:44.760 had been lost, and that left very little physical evidence 0:23:44.800 --> 0:23:48.240 against her. After all, we are talking about even in 0:23:48.240 --> 0:23:52.159 a best case scenario, like going from the first trial 0:23:52.960 --> 0:23:55.800 nine years at this point having gone, I was twelve 0:23:55.840 --> 0:23:58.720 from the first and maybe nine from the second at least. 0:23:58.760 --> 0:24:01.000 It's like a decade that we're talking about here. Yeah, 0:24:01.840 --> 0:24:04.520 So experts admitted in court that the techniques that that 0:24:04.560 --> 0:24:08.880 had been used to detect the arsenic were actually outdated tests, 0:24:09.040 --> 0:24:11.080 and that there were too many factors to put the 0:24:11.080 --> 0:24:14.480 pieces together anyway, which I thought was really who says that, 0:24:14.560 --> 0:24:16.280 Like you're in court, You're like, there's too much to 0:24:16.320 --> 0:24:18.840 do here, just I can't do it. It's such an 0:24:18.840 --> 0:24:30.440 epic case of like I don't know anymore. Marie's attorney, 0:24:30.480 --> 0:24:33.040 in the meantime, had learned that the caretaker of the 0:24:33.160 --> 0:24:36.480 Ludin Cemetery, just where many of these people were buried, 0:24:36.560 --> 0:24:41.679 had grown a garden near the burial sites, and his 0:24:41.800 --> 0:24:46.000 garden included potatoes, which, as is the case with many 0:24:46.080 --> 0:24:51.399 root vegetables, contained naturally occurring arsenic in their skins. The 0:24:51.440 --> 0:24:54.600 caretaker also admitted that he had sprinkled his garden with 0:24:54.680 --> 0:24:58.399 fertilizers that contained arsenic, and so both of these things 0:24:58.480 --> 0:25:01.760 could have contaminated the soy around the bodies. At least 0:25:01.800 --> 0:25:05.320 that was the defense's argument. So in addition to a 0:25:05.400 --> 0:25:08.879