1 00:00:05,600 --> 00:00:09,000 Speaker 1: Hello everybody. I'm Jemma Spake and welcome back to the 2 00:00:09,000 --> 00:00:12,320 Speaker 1: Psychology of Your Twenties, the podcast where we talk through 3 00:00:12,360 --> 00:00:17,040 Speaker 1: the biggest changes, moments, and transitions of our twenties and 4 00:00:17,079 --> 00:00:27,160 Speaker 1: what they mean for our psychology. Hello everybody, Welcome back 5 00:00:27,200 --> 00:00:30,240 Speaker 1: to the show. Welcome back to the podcast. It is 6 00:00:30,440 --> 00:00:33,760 Speaker 1: so great to have you here, back for another episode. 7 00:00:34,000 --> 00:00:35,760 Speaker 1: Can I tell you guys a story to start this 8 00:00:35,880 --> 00:00:40,640 Speaker 1: episode off? The story that inspired me to do this episode. 9 00:00:40,680 --> 00:00:44,920 Speaker 1: So the other day I was at this bathhouse like 10 00:00:45,200 --> 00:00:47,720 Speaker 1: spa thing when I was back in Australia for a week. 11 00:00:47,920 --> 00:00:51,360 Speaker 1: This spa is like I'll go to place like when 12 00:00:51,400 --> 00:00:53,120 Speaker 1: I lived there. I used to go there probably once 13 00:00:53,120 --> 00:00:56,120 Speaker 1: a week. It has this like huge pool, this like 14 00:00:56,240 --> 00:00:59,440 Speaker 1: soak thing, this like cold plunge sauna, all the good stuff. 15 00:00:59,800 --> 00:01:02,680 Speaker 1: And whilst we were there, there was this group of 16 00:01:03,120 --> 00:01:05,880 Speaker 1: three friends and all of them were on their phones. 17 00:01:06,640 --> 00:01:08,120 Speaker 1: And I mean they were on their phones in the 18 00:01:08,160 --> 00:01:10,560 Speaker 1: soap pool. They were on their phones like in the 19 00:01:10,600 --> 00:01:12,720 Speaker 1: stauna at one stage for like two or three minutes, 20 00:01:12,800 --> 00:01:15,720 Speaker 1: like sitting around in the quiet space is literally like 21 00:01:15,880 --> 00:01:19,640 Speaker 1: cold plunging, all in their phones, not talking, not listening 22 00:01:19,640 --> 00:01:23,039 Speaker 1: to each other. And I'm gonna be honest, I tried 23 00:01:23,240 --> 00:01:27,240 Speaker 1: very hard not to judge them. I tried very hard 24 00:01:27,280 --> 00:01:29,840 Speaker 1: to kind of understand maybe why they were doing it, 25 00:01:29,840 --> 00:01:33,119 Speaker 1: like come up with an explanation. But it really stuck 26 00:01:33,120 --> 00:01:36,040 Speaker 1: with me. It really made me see, like, perhaps very 27 00:01:36,080 --> 00:01:40,000 Speaker 1: distinctly and clearly for the first time, the intimacy pandemic 28 00:01:40,520 --> 00:01:43,160 Speaker 1: we are in that has been created by our phones. 29 00:01:43,640 --> 00:01:46,600 Speaker 1: And I don't mean the fact that our phones are 30 00:01:46,600 --> 00:01:48,880 Speaker 1: making us lonely. I feel like that's been explored a lot. 31 00:01:49,160 --> 00:01:51,240 Speaker 1: I don't mean the fact that our phones are addictive 32 00:01:51,360 --> 00:01:54,360 Speaker 1: or that our screen times are too high. I feel like, sure, 33 00:01:54,440 --> 00:01:56,760 Speaker 1: that's a part of this. But what really struck me 34 00:01:57,040 --> 00:01:59,800 Speaker 1: was that even when these people were able to find 35 00:01:59,840 --> 00:02:02,040 Speaker 1: it time that worked for all of them, they were 36 00:02:02,040 --> 00:02:06,080 Speaker 1: able to make plans for an in person hangout. They 37 00:02:06,120 --> 00:02:09,639 Speaker 1: paid their forty five dollars, they cleared their schedules, they 38 00:02:09,639 --> 00:02:11,880 Speaker 1: were face to face like they'd be. All of the 39 00:02:11,960 --> 00:02:16,600 Speaker 1: odds overcame, all of the difficulties of seeing our friends 40 00:02:16,600 --> 00:02:20,040 Speaker 1: these days. Here they were and they were still on 41 00:02:20,120 --> 00:02:23,480 Speaker 1: their phones. Their phones were still in the way. They 42 00:02:23,560 --> 00:02:28,120 Speaker 1: still took priority over real world interaction. And I feel 43 00:02:28,120 --> 00:02:32,480 Speaker 1: like that was such an obvious example of our phone 44 00:02:32,600 --> 00:02:36,440 Speaker 1: addiction that yeah, it basically inspired this episode. Again, Like 45 00:02:36,560 --> 00:02:39,200 Speaker 1: I wasn't sitting there like shaking my head judging these people. 46 00:02:39,240 --> 00:02:42,760 Speaker 1: If anything, I was just kind of profoundly shocked that 47 00:02:42,840 --> 00:02:44,960 Speaker 1: this was so normalized that you would be in this 48 00:02:45,000 --> 00:02:48,720 Speaker 1: like serene space with your friends on your phone. And 49 00:02:48,960 --> 00:02:50,680 Speaker 1: I think we're at a point where it seems like 50 00:02:50,680 --> 00:02:53,880 Speaker 1: we are progressively getting more and more sucked in such 51 00:02:53,919 --> 00:02:56,840 Speaker 1: that this is becoming kind of a normal occurrence, and 52 00:02:56,880 --> 00:02:59,000 Speaker 1: it's really making me think, like what is the peak 53 00:02:59,080 --> 00:03:02,640 Speaker 1: of this going to be? And like psychologically, what is 54 00:03:02,680 --> 00:03:06,120 Speaker 1: the cost to our relationships and to how people continue 55 00:03:06,160 --> 00:03:09,000 Speaker 1: to make relationships when our phones are always like the 56 00:03:09,040 --> 00:03:12,839 Speaker 1: third party or the third person in any interaction. So 57 00:03:12,960 --> 00:03:15,720 Speaker 1: today we are going to explore a different side to 58 00:03:15,840 --> 00:03:18,840 Speaker 1: our phone and social media use that I don't often 59 00:03:18,840 --> 00:03:23,720 Speaker 1: see discussed, which is the cost to intimacy. This goes 60 00:03:23,760 --> 00:03:26,360 Speaker 1: in so many different directions, so many crazy directions that 61 00:03:26,400 --> 00:03:28,480 Speaker 1: you may not think it goes in. We're not just 62 00:03:28,520 --> 00:03:31,240 Speaker 1: talking about the cost of too much screen time, but 63 00:03:31,960 --> 00:03:36,320 Speaker 1: the actual science behind you know, why you need to 64 00:03:36,360 --> 00:03:39,040 Speaker 1: remove your phone from social situations, why you shouldn't have 65 00:03:39,080 --> 00:03:42,160 Speaker 1: your phone on the dinner table. Why the loss of 66 00:03:42,200 --> 00:03:45,800 Speaker 1: boredom in our lives created by our phones means that 67 00:03:45,840 --> 00:03:49,920 Speaker 1: people know each other less. And of course, you know 68 00:03:50,040 --> 00:03:52,640 Speaker 1: five ways that we can reverse this, five ways that 69 00:03:52,680 --> 00:03:57,480 Speaker 1: we can prevent or stop our phones from taxing our 70 00:03:57,520 --> 00:04:04,400 Speaker 1: relationships and preventing vulnerability, intimacy, and connection in this day 71 00:04:04,400 --> 00:04:07,600 Speaker 1: and age. So, without further ado, let's get into it. 72 00:04:11,800 --> 00:04:16,040 Speaker 1: Let me start by saying, technology are phones Like It's 73 00:04:16,080 --> 00:04:19,400 Speaker 1: obviously made our life so much easier in so many 74 00:04:19,440 --> 00:04:23,479 Speaker 1: amazing ways. I feel like any episode where somebody just 75 00:04:23,600 --> 00:04:30,120 Speaker 1: criticizes technology is obviously not very convincing. Right, Like phones, 76 00:04:30,360 --> 00:04:35,560 Speaker 1: technology is responsible probably for a larger degree of connection 77 00:04:36,600 --> 00:04:39,520 Speaker 1: that we are experiencing compared to previous generations. You know, 78 00:04:39,839 --> 00:04:42,320 Speaker 1: how many people have met the love of their life 79 00:04:42,320 --> 00:04:45,120 Speaker 1: on a dating app like I have? How many of 80 00:04:45,160 --> 00:04:49,440 Speaker 1: us have been able to sustain long distance friendships, connections, 81 00:04:49,520 --> 00:04:54,640 Speaker 1: relationships with family because of technology? Literally everybody you know, 82 00:04:54,720 --> 00:04:57,719 Speaker 1: I've moved I don't know what now, like four times 83 00:04:57,760 --> 00:05:01,080 Speaker 1: as an adult, and I can very honestly say I 84 00:05:01,120 --> 00:05:03,440 Speaker 1: would not still be in touch with a lot of 85 00:05:03,440 --> 00:05:07,719 Speaker 1: those friends without technology. And that's like fairly obvious to 86 00:05:07,760 --> 00:05:10,280 Speaker 1: say that, but honestly, like it has been pretty incredible 87 00:05:10,279 --> 00:05:14,800 Speaker 1: for human relationships. However, in this day and age, it 88 00:05:14,880 --> 00:05:17,880 Speaker 1: is not a hot take to say that most of us, 89 00:05:18,560 --> 00:05:22,039 Speaker 1: our addiction has gotten to a point where it's no 90 00:05:22,160 --> 00:05:27,640 Speaker 1: longer just about connection, it's about immediate gratification, which takes 91 00:05:27,640 --> 00:05:31,000 Speaker 1: away from connection. We were sold this idea with social 92 00:05:31,080 --> 00:05:34,040 Speaker 1: media and with our phones, that this would improve how 93 00:05:34,040 --> 00:05:38,680 Speaker 1: we relate to other people. We're now getting to the 94 00:05:38,720 --> 00:05:43,320 Speaker 1: point where it's actually taxing relationships and the addictive nature 95 00:05:43,360 --> 00:05:48,160 Speaker 1: of our phones is compromising our humanness. Like literally, as 96 00:05:48,160 --> 00:05:51,240 Speaker 1: I'm recording this, I think last week Meta and Facebook 97 00:05:51,279 --> 00:05:54,159 Speaker 1: were forced to pay like a four hundred million dollar 98 00:05:54,240 --> 00:05:58,960 Speaker 1: fine because they designed their technology to be too addictive 99 00:05:59,040 --> 00:06:01,680 Speaker 1: and it's been proven by a judge to be hurting 100 00:06:01,720 --> 00:06:06,080 Speaker 1: social harmony. So I think in response to this, there's 101 00:06:06,120 --> 00:06:12,120 Speaker 1: been this growing research area about technoference technology interference, which 102 00:06:12,160 --> 00:06:16,679 Speaker 1: basically looks at how technology, something that once brought us closer, 103 00:06:16,800 --> 00:06:20,480 Speaker 1: is actually becoming a barrier to human connection. Like this 104 00:06:20,520 --> 00:06:25,160 Speaker 1: is a deep area of study, and it's even creating 105 00:06:25,200 --> 00:06:28,839 Speaker 1: what one developmental psychologist, her name is Michelle Druan, has 106 00:06:28,920 --> 00:06:33,480 Speaker 1: called an intimacy famine. So essentially, we as humans, we 107 00:06:33,520 --> 00:06:36,680 Speaker 1: need a certain level of intimacy to sustain ourselves, the 108 00:06:36,720 --> 00:06:41,000 Speaker 1: same way we need food, water, shelter, air, whatever. And 109 00:06:41,880 --> 00:06:45,080 Speaker 1: our phones are giving the impression of giving us connection 110 00:06:45,160 --> 00:06:49,719 Speaker 1: and intimacy, but actually they don't contain any real social nutrition, 111 00:06:50,640 --> 00:06:55,720 Speaker 1: meaning we're experiencing an intimacy famine without even realizing it. 112 00:06:55,800 --> 00:06:59,520 Speaker 1: We think that we are getting nutrition from the kind 113 00:06:59,520 --> 00:07:03,440 Speaker 1: of minute social interactions we have on our phone. It's 114 00:07:03,480 --> 00:07:06,679 Speaker 1: not a real meal. It's not actually feeding us. Why 115 00:07:06,760 --> 00:07:11,520 Speaker 1: is this the case, Well, real intimacy requires presence. We 116 00:07:11,600 --> 00:07:15,360 Speaker 1: all know that I'm not saying anything revolutionary, but you 117 00:07:15,440 --> 00:07:18,200 Speaker 1: cannot connect with somebody if you're not looking at them, 118 00:07:18,400 --> 00:07:23,720 Speaker 1: listening to them in their presence, showing engagement. When there 119 00:07:23,800 --> 00:07:26,160 Speaker 1: is a phone there, when there is a phone on 120 00:07:26,200 --> 00:07:28,440 Speaker 1: the table, when there is a phone in your hand, 121 00:07:28,920 --> 00:07:32,520 Speaker 1: it means that presence is interrupted in two ways. Firstly, 122 00:07:33,240 --> 00:07:36,440 Speaker 1: you know the fact that we are so often on 123 00:07:36,480 --> 00:07:38,880 Speaker 1: our screens and entertained by our screens just means that 124 00:07:38,960 --> 00:07:43,760 Speaker 1: our daily need for social interaction is less. Secondly, even 125 00:07:43,760 --> 00:07:47,720 Speaker 1: when we're interacting with other people, often that presence of 126 00:07:47,760 --> 00:07:52,600 Speaker 1: our phones actually unconsciously makes people feel snubbed or like 127 00:07:52,760 --> 00:07:56,360 Speaker 1: our attention could be broken at any moment by this device, 128 00:07:57,080 --> 00:08:01,240 Speaker 1: and that makes vulnerability hard. It basically stops intimacy, this 129 00:08:01,320 --> 00:08:04,760 Speaker 1: is what researchers are finding. It stops intimacy from reaching 130 00:08:04,920 --> 00:08:10,000 Speaker 1: any meaningful level because we can't sustain our attention on 131 00:08:10,080 --> 00:08:12,640 Speaker 1: a person long enough for them to be vulnerable and 132 00:08:12,720 --> 00:08:16,600 Speaker 1: for us to create a vulnerable space. Okay, let's start 133 00:08:16,600 --> 00:08:19,880 Speaker 1: with that primary reason why our phones are ruining presence, 134 00:08:20,600 --> 00:08:23,080 Speaker 1: and that is that, again, we are just on them 135 00:08:23,160 --> 00:08:25,840 Speaker 1: all the time. There is this I guess it's a 136 00:08:25,880 --> 00:08:29,840 Speaker 1: research body. It's called sell Sell. It's like sell sell, 137 00:08:29,920 --> 00:08:33,040 Speaker 1: it's a phone retail platform, and they did the survey 138 00:08:33,040 --> 00:08:35,479 Speaker 1: a couple of years ago on like five thousand smartphone 139 00:08:35,480 --> 00:08:38,800 Speaker 1: owners to understand, essentially, like once and for all, what 140 00:08:38,920 --> 00:08:41,840 Speaker 1: is the impact of this technology on our dating lives, 141 00:08:41,920 --> 00:08:45,440 Speaker 1: on our relationships, on our behavior at this point in 142 00:08:45,480 --> 00:08:50,000 Speaker 1: like humanity's history. And their survey showed that seventy one 143 00:08:50,000 --> 00:08:53,000 Speaker 1: percent of people spent more time on their phone each 144 00:08:53,080 --> 00:08:57,240 Speaker 1: day than with their partner. That's nearly three and four 145 00:08:57,280 --> 00:09:00,600 Speaker 1: people who were in relationships spent more time with an 146 00:09:00,640 --> 00:09:05,400 Speaker 1: inanimate object than someone who they loved and cherished. That 147 00:09:05,640 --> 00:09:10,360 Speaker 1: same study found that phone uses also reducing the amount 148 00:09:10,400 --> 00:09:13,440 Speaker 1: of sex that we're having and the quality of that 149 00:09:13,559 --> 00:09:16,880 Speaker 1: sex as well. The statistic literally blew my mind, but 150 00:09:16,960 --> 00:09:20,959 Speaker 1: they found that one in five people who were spoken 151 00:09:21,000 --> 00:09:24,520 Speaker 1: to in this study admitted to looking at their phone 152 00:09:24,559 --> 00:09:28,120 Speaker 1: whilst they were having sex, and the majority of respondents 153 00:09:28,600 --> 00:09:31,240 Speaker 1: said that their phones were, you know, the last thing 154 00:09:31,240 --> 00:09:33,080 Speaker 1: they saw before they went to sleep each night, the 155 00:09:33,120 --> 00:09:36,360 Speaker 1: first thing they saw when they woke up, not their partner. Like, 156 00:09:37,360 --> 00:09:44,040 Speaker 1: isn't that insane? Like people like checking your phone during sex? 157 00:09:44,640 --> 00:09:46,760 Speaker 1: That is like the level of addiction that we are at. 158 00:09:46,800 --> 00:09:50,440 Speaker 1: That is the level of like I don't even know 159 00:09:50,480 --> 00:09:54,440 Speaker 1: what's a bigger word than addiction, like dependency. You know 160 00:09:54,480 --> 00:09:57,400 Speaker 1: what's really interesting about this is as much as that 161 00:09:57,520 --> 00:10:01,120 Speaker 1: is like a shocking statistic, and yeah, it's surprising, I 162 00:10:01,240 --> 00:10:04,360 Speaker 1: kind of get where it's coming from. Not to play 163 00:10:04,400 --> 00:10:08,560 Speaker 1: like Devil's advocate, but you have to remember that our 164 00:10:08,679 --> 00:10:13,520 Speaker 1: phones have replaced or have changed the way that we 165 00:10:13,559 --> 00:10:16,800 Speaker 1: relate to other people. They've also become a way that 166 00:10:16,840 --> 00:10:22,000 Speaker 1: we soothe loneliness and when we were out of a 167 00:10:22,040 --> 00:10:25,520 Speaker 1: relationship or when we were lonely when we went with friends. 168 00:10:25,520 --> 00:10:30,359 Speaker 1: Whatever it is, the phone is our companion in those moments. 169 00:10:30,840 --> 00:10:33,040 Speaker 1: One study on I think it was like five hundred 170 00:10:33,280 --> 00:10:37,800 Speaker 1: Chinese university students, found that the people who had the 171 00:10:37,800 --> 00:10:42,040 Speaker 1: greatest phone addictions, even when they did have sustained and 172 00:10:42,160 --> 00:10:45,760 Speaker 1: strong support systems, often had gone through a period where 173 00:10:45,760 --> 00:10:49,480 Speaker 1: they were very, very lonely, and that contributed to them 174 00:10:49,520 --> 00:10:53,280 Speaker 1: feeling a deeper sense of like dependency on their phone. Basically, 175 00:10:53,600 --> 00:10:56,679 Speaker 1: when we are lonely, our phones help us regulate that emotion, 176 00:10:57,160 --> 00:11:00,280 Speaker 1: but in turn they actually make us lonelier even when 177 00:11:00,320 --> 00:11:04,320 Speaker 1: we do find connection, because they give us that small, 178 00:11:04,400 --> 00:11:07,959 Speaker 1: like minute ghost of social attention and connection whilst never 179 00:11:08,000 --> 00:11:10,880 Speaker 1: giving us the full meal, basically meaning that they are 180 00:11:10,880 --> 00:11:15,000 Speaker 1: like breadcrumbing us with real intimacy and at the same 181 00:11:15,040 --> 00:11:18,640 Speaker 1: time making it harder for us to experience actual in 182 00:11:18,720 --> 00:11:22,080 Speaker 1: person intimacy because they're always there. So that's the first 183 00:11:22,120 --> 00:11:23,960 Speaker 1: way that our phones kind of get in the way. 184 00:11:24,040 --> 00:11:26,720 Speaker 1: We literally cannot pull away from them even when we 185 00:11:26,760 --> 00:11:30,760 Speaker 1: are with other people. The second way they interrupt intimacy 186 00:11:31,280 --> 00:11:35,160 Speaker 1: or they hurt intimacy is that social snubbing, or that 187 00:11:35,679 --> 00:11:39,480 Speaker 1: concept of phone snubbing that I briefly mentioned before. I 188 00:11:39,520 --> 00:11:42,480 Speaker 1: think we have all had this experience. I've done this. 189 00:11:42,760 --> 00:11:45,640 Speaker 1: Let me be real. Where we're talking to our partner, 190 00:11:45,679 --> 00:11:47,840 Speaker 1: we're talking to our friend, to our boss, to our parents, 191 00:11:48,840 --> 00:11:51,600 Speaker 1: and suddenly they like pick up their phone to respond 192 00:11:51,640 --> 00:11:54,480 Speaker 1: to a notification like right as we are bearing our 193 00:11:54,520 --> 00:11:58,360 Speaker 1: soul or right as we're like about to eat dinner 194 00:11:58,920 --> 00:12:03,560 Speaker 1: or engaging with them telling them something important, and suddenly, 195 00:12:03,600 --> 00:12:06,640 Speaker 1: as soon as that happened, like it immediately sends you 196 00:12:06,720 --> 00:12:09,280 Speaker 1: a signal that they are no longer interested, that they 197 00:12:09,320 --> 00:12:13,400 Speaker 1: are no longer listening. Somebody picking their phone up at 198 00:12:13,400 --> 00:12:17,840 Speaker 1: the dinner table is like the technological equivalent of walking 199 00:12:17,840 --> 00:12:21,160 Speaker 1: away from somebody mid conversation at a party because somebody 200 00:12:21,160 --> 00:12:23,360 Speaker 1: more interesting came in. That's literally what it is, and 201 00:12:23,400 --> 00:12:26,959 Speaker 1: it hurts. It really hurts. That's why, like I always well, 202 00:12:27,160 --> 00:12:29,000 Speaker 1: I don't always do this, but I try hard to. 203 00:12:30,280 --> 00:12:32,520 Speaker 1: You know, don't eat with your phone at the dinner table. 204 00:12:33,080 --> 00:12:36,440 Speaker 1: Don't bring your phone to special moments or have at present, 205 00:12:36,880 --> 00:12:40,400 Speaker 1: especially with the people you love, because that attention grabbing 206 00:12:40,520 --> 00:12:43,400 Speaker 1: nature is not something that you always have the mental 207 00:12:43,400 --> 00:12:47,000 Speaker 1: strength to overcome just because you think you can. Studies 208 00:12:47,040 --> 00:12:49,719 Speaker 1: have been done on this phone snubbing phenomena that we're 209 00:12:49,720 --> 00:12:52,880 Speaker 1: seeing more and more of and the harm that it's 210 00:12:52,880 --> 00:12:58,560 Speaker 1: doing to intimacy. And one particular study from twenty twenty 211 00:12:58,600 --> 00:13:02,480 Speaker 1: five actually measure They were like, does this hurt people's relationships, 212 00:13:02,480 --> 00:13:05,240 Speaker 1: like on a level that betray or might you know 213 00:13:06,000 --> 00:13:09,760 Speaker 1: telling somebody your secret, telling somebody a story, or being 214 00:13:10,360 --> 00:13:12,720 Speaker 1: vulnerable with them and then having them reach for their phone, 215 00:13:13,640 --> 00:13:16,680 Speaker 1: Like what is the emotional reaction that that brings about 216 00:13:16,679 --> 00:13:20,760 Speaker 1: in somebody? And the results showed that when somebody was 217 00:13:20,760 --> 00:13:23,920 Speaker 1: in a relationship with somebody who was more prone to 218 00:13:24,040 --> 00:13:27,480 Speaker 1: using their phone during moments of intimacy, they had greater 219 00:13:27,559 --> 00:13:32,280 Speaker 1: levels of resentment, greater levels of anger, greater levels of 220 00:13:32,600 --> 00:13:36,160 Speaker 1: shame even and over time, this research found that it 221 00:13:36,240 --> 00:13:43,120 Speaker 1: significantly diminished relationship quality, relationship stability, relationship vulnerability because there 222 00:13:43,240 --> 00:13:46,679 Speaker 1: was less and less space or time to meaningfully share, 223 00:13:47,200 --> 00:13:51,600 Speaker 1: to meaningfully connect. And the thing is is like vulnerability 224 00:13:51,640 --> 00:13:56,600 Speaker 1: and intimacy are freaking hard, Like it is hard to 225 00:13:56,600 --> 00:13:58,680 Speaker 1: sit in front of somebody and say this is what 226 00:13:58,679 --> 00:14:02,280 Speaker 1: I'm struggling with, this is what is really impacting me, 227 00:14:03,000 --> 00:14:04,800 Speaker 1: this is what I feel it's missing in our relationship, 228 00:14:04,880 --> 00:14:09,800 Speaker 1: whatever it is, and for somebody should then essentially send 229 00:14:09,880 --> 00:14:13,240 Speaker 1: you the signal that like this inanimate object, my phone, 230 00:14:13,280 --> 00:14:16,800 Speaker 1: is more important than this conversation. Like that is going 231 00:14:16,840 --> 00:14:20,040 Speaker 1: to shut down future attempts at intimacy and it's going 232 00:14:20,120 --> 00:14:23,720 Speaker 1: to mean that the bond suffers as well. Another study 233 00:14:23,720 --> 00:14:28,360 Speaker 1: from twenty nineteen, again it's just basically reiterating the same finding, 234 00:14:28,480 --> 00:14:33,680 Speaker 1: which is that technoference causes feelings of rejection, it causes 235 00:14:33,720 --> 00:14:39,240 Speaker 1: feelings of dismissal, and it is like this silent killer 236 00:14:39,280 --> 00:14:43,440 Speaker 1: of relationship these days. This study went more in depth 237 00:14:43,440 --> 00:14:46,200 Speaker 1: and it actually asked people to keep like a diary 238 00:14:46,320 --> 00:14:50,080 Speaker 1: over fourteen days of like how often their phone was 239 00:14:50,120 --> 00:14:57,480 Speaker 1: interrupting their relationship, and seventy two percent of these couples 240 00:14:57,480 --> 00:14:59,960 Speaker 1: who were involved in this study said, now that I'm 241 00:15:00,080 --> 00:15:02,120 Speaker 1: notice it, now that I'm thinking about it, like this, 242 00:15:02,720 --> 00:15:06,440 Speaker 1: this phone, this technology is creating an interference in our relationship. 243 00:15:06,920 --> 00:15:10,440 Speaker 1: They also reported higher phone usage during the day of 244 00:15:10,480 --> 00:15:14,920 Speaker 1: correlating to more conflict, more irritability, more anger. So there's 245 00:15:14,960 --> 00:15:18,800 Speaker 1: like multiple, multiple interruptions that were happening. So I just 246 00:15:18,800 --> 00:15:22,000 Speaker 1: think that this is like a very powerful reminder to 247 00:15:23,560 --> 00:15:26,840 Speaker 1: not see your phone as this like passive harmless object, 248 00:15:27,240 --> 00:15:31,000 Speaker 1: but to understand the power and the ability it has 249 00:15:31,040 --> 00:15:35,120 Speaker 1: to damage even like your closest relationships without you even realizing. 250 00:15:36,040 --> 00:15:38,280 Speaker 1: The other thing that our phones and social media have 251 00:15:38,400 --> 00:15:42,000 Speaker 1: done that I think is killing relationships and more so friendships, 252 00:15:42,240 --> 00:15:47,480 Speaker 1: is that they have strangely also commodified friendship so that 253 00:15:47,520 --> 00:15:51,120 Speaker 1: it's become this like tit for tat online wave of 254 00:15:51,280 --> 00:15:54,320 Speaker 1: engaging with one another. I think, especially with social media, 255 00:15:54,840 --> 00:15:58,360 Speaker 1: basically we now show loyalty to our friends not by 256 00:15:58,400 --> 00:16:01,560 Speaker 1: showing up for them in person, not by helping them physically, 257 00:16:01,680 --> 00:16:05,560 Speaker 1: not by being around the more sharing experiences, but also 258 00:16:05,920 --> 00:16:10,440 Speaker 1: and more so, showing up in likes, showing up in comments, 259 00:16:10,520 --> 00:16:14,600 Speaker 1: showing up in social media engagement, being present in their 260 00:16:14,680 --> 00:16:18,640 Speaker 1: online lives more than their in person lives. It's like 261 00:16:18,680 --> 00:16:20,720 Speaker 1: this extra layer that we are now all having to 262 00:16:20,760 --> 00:16:25,000 Speaker 1: prove ourselves on in our friendships, that like, you can 263 00:16:25,960 --> 00:16:28,160 Speaker 1: give somebody so much when it comes to your in 264 00:16:28,200 --> 00:16:32,120 Speaker 1: person friendship, but there's this level of like online loyalty 265 00:16:32,520 --> 00:16:35,840 Speaker 1: that if we don't live up to, creates a lot 266 00:16:35,880 --> 00:16:38,720 Speaker 1: of resentment. And I think that's something that not that 267 00:16:38,720 --> 00:16:42,680 Speaker 1: it doesn't get spoken about enough the way that social 268 00:16:42,720 --> 00:16:51,000 Speaker 1: media and our phones have downgraded physical intimacy and downgraded 269 00:16:51,720 --> 00:16:56,920 Speaker 1: like a real social connection and upgraded a kind of 270 00:16:56,920 --> 00:17:02,600 Speaker 1: fictional online connection of life engaging commenting like I'm sure 271 00:17:02,600 --> 00:17:05,800 Speaker 1: we've all had this feeling of posting like I don't 272 00:17:05,800 --> 00:17:08,520 Speaker 1: know a photo that you think is amazing or a 273 00:17:08,560 --> 00:17:11,679 Speaker 1: story and expecting like your friends to comment on, and 274 00:17:11,720 --> 00:17:15,320 Speaker 1: expecting your friends to respond whatever it is and them 275 00:17:15,359 --> 00:17:19,840 Speaker 1: not and feeling hurt like the new rules and the 276 00:17:19,880 --> 00:17:24,320 Speaker 1: new playbook for friendship online and the fact that like 277 00:17:25,359 --> 00:17:29,280 Speaker 1: you know, it's it's understood but not always communicated means 278 00:17:29,320 --> 00:17:32,520 Speaker 1: that there are more and more of these like small 279 00:17:33,280 --> 00:17:36,919 Speaker 1: slights and these small sense of betrayals that come with 280 00:17:37,040 --> 00:17:42,440 Speaker 1: friendship being converted into like online interactions. Can I talk 281 00:17:42,480 --> 00:17:44,359 Speaker 1: about one final way I think that our phones are 282 00:17:44,440 --> 00:17:49,000 Speaker 1: killing intimacy that also doesn't always make this conversation hot. 283 00:17:49,000 --> 00:17:53,960 Speaker 1: Take our phones are killing intimacy because none of us 284 00:17:54,240 --> 00:17:57,040 Speaker 1: know how to be bored anymore. And the thing is 285 00:17:57,040 --> 00:17:59,320 Speaker 1: is that when you're bored, when you're sitting around with 286 00:17:59,359 --> 00:18:04,080 Speaker 1: your friends and maybe like twiddling your thumbs, that is 287 00:18:04,119 --> 00:18:09,680 Speaker 1: when you truly get to know people, because you naturally 288 00:18:09,760 --> 00:18:14,760 Speaker 1: fill those silences with stories, with personal details, with vulnerability 289 00:18:15,160 --> 00:18:18,280 Speaker 1: that creates closeness because you're kind of like there's this 290 00:18:18,359 --> 00:18:22,080 Speaker 1: empty space and people step into it. Nowadays, we don't 291 00:18:22,080 --> 00:18:24,119 Speaker 1: get that anymore because when you're bored at the function, 292 00:18:24,200 --> 00:18:26,639 Speaker 1: when you're bored at the party, when you're bored at dinner, 293 00:18:26,720 --> 00:18:30,280 Speaker 1: like you pick up your phone and immediately that opportunity 294 00:18:30,440 --> 00:18:33,280 Speaker 1: for vulnerability and to connect is like shut off in 295 00:18:33,359 --> 00:18:36,800 Speaker 1: that moment, and so ironic that then we all kind 296 00:18:36,800 --> 00:18:39,240 Speaker 1: of look around wondering why our friendships aren't as deep 297 00:18:39,280 --> 00:18:42,760 Speaker 1: these days. But like, to get close to somebody, there 298 00:18:42,800 --> 00:18:45,159 Speaker 1: is going to be that level of discomfort that you 299 00:18:45,240 --> 00:18:48,000 Speaker 1: have to sit in to get to know them more. 300 00:18:48,800 --> 00:18:52,640 Speaker 1: And we are stopping that discomfort with technology. I think 301 00:18:52,640 --> 00:18:55,720 Speaker 1: that's really what it is. Like, we can't just sit 302 00:18:55,760 --> 00:18:58,640 Speaker 1: alone with our thoughts when we are alone. We can't 303 00:18:58,640 --> 00:19:00,840 Speaker 1: sit alone with our thoughts when we with other people. 304 00:19:01,240 --> 00:19:03,760 Speaker 1: The moment we feel a hard emotion or we feel awkward. 305 00:19:04,240 --> 00:19:06,159 Speaker 1: Instead of like forging through, which is what you have 306 00:19:06,200 --> 00:19:09,080 Speaker 1: to do for friendship, we kind of retreat into something 307 00:19:09,560 --> 00:19:14,440 Speaker 1: comfortable that will soothe us with this nice, constant trickle 308 00:19:14,440 --> 00:19:18,480 Speaker 1: of easy dopamine. But it's actually avoidance, and it's actually 309 00:19:18,920 --> 00:19:23,720 Speaker 1: hurting our relationships and our ability to really get to 310 00:19:23,760 --> 00:19:26,560 Speaker 1: know people. That's just my theory. I feel like people 311 00:19:26,600 --> 00:19:28,560 Speaker 1: have other theories about it, but the boredom one is like, 312 00:19:28,840 --> 00:19:32,680 Speaker 1: is huge. Okay, let's actually explore the psychology behind why 313 00:19:32,720 --> 00:19:35,960 Speaker 1: this has come to be and why it is that 314 00:19:36,040 --> 00:19:38,760 Speaker 1: even if you understand all of this, you still cannot 315 00:19:38,760 --> 00:19:42,960 Speaker 1: pull yourself away from this technology because it's not you. 316 00:19:43,520 --> 00:19:51,399 Speaker 1: There are actually some deep, I don't know, conspiratorial conspiracies, 317 00:19:51,480 --> 00:19:55,560 Speaker 1: controversies behind these addictive patterns and behind why all of 318 00:19:55,640 --> 00:19:58,760 Speaker 1: us I think now have a boundary and a dependency 319 00:19:58,760 --> 00:20:08,439 Speaker 1: issue with our phones. Stay with us. Like I said before, 320 00:20:08,680 --> 00:20:12,520 Speaker 1: our phones offer this like bite sized ecosystem of what 321 00:20:12,680 --> 00:20:16,320 Speaker 1: socializing and connection used to be in just like a 322 00:20:16,480 --> 00:20:21,119 Speaker 1: highly addictive, commodified format. We already know that, we already 323 00:20:21,160 --> 00:20:24,320 Speaker 1: know that that's really what gets us hooked, especially to 324 00:20:24,359 --> 00:20:28,840 Speaker 1: social media. Beyond that, though, the reason they keep getting 325 00:20:28,840 --> 00:20:31,359 Speaker 1: in the way of intimacy is that they have also 326 00:20:31,440 --> 00:20:35,359 Speaker 1: become one of the primary ways that we regulate our emotions, 327 00:20:35,880 --> 00:20:39,719 Speaker 1: much like any addictive substance or object. Really, right, that's 328 00:20:39,840 --> 00:20:42,159 Speaker 1: really the root of all addiction. It stops us from 329 00:20:42,200 --> 00:20:45,159 Speaker 1: feeling the bad feelings. And like all addiction, the cycle 330 00:20:45,160 --> 00:20:49,080 Speaker 1: has to begin with intoxication. The substance has to initially 331 00:20:49,160 --> 00:20:53,320 Speaker 1: be too good to say no to. Our phones do this. 332 00:20:53,400 --> 00:20:55,640 Speaker 1: Our phones are too good to say no to. They 333 00:20:55,680 --> 00:21:01,199 Speaker 1: feel good because that was an intentional design choice, like 334 00:21:01,840 --> 00:21:04,560 Speaker 1: they are designed to capture as much attention as possible. 335 00:21:04,960 --> 00:21:08,199 Speaker 1: When they were designing early models of the iPhone, the 336 00:21:08,240 --> 00:21:13,360 Speaker 1: team behind them like hired neuroscientists, hired psychologists, hired scientists 337 00:21:13,920 --> 00:21:18,119 Speaker 1: onto their design teams, like onto their prototype teams, and 338 00:21:18,240 --> 00:21:22,480 Speaker 1: essentially their mission was, how can we break the brain's 339 00:21:22,560 --> 00:21:27,320 Speaker 1: feedback loop and reward loop so that people are obsessed 340 00:21:27,359 --> 00:21:30,280 Speaker 1: with this, so that this becomes the new way of life? 341 00:21:30,359 --> 00:21:34,560 Speaker 1: How do we get people addicted? They added so many 342 00:21:34,680 --> 00:21:38,440 Speaker 1: features into the design of these devices that it actually 343 00:21:38,480 --> 00:21:43,600 Speaker 1: created a name. It's called persuasive design, basically making it 344 00:21:43,640 --> 00:21:45,439 Speaker 1: harder for you to say no to the object than 345 00:21:45,520 --> 00:21:48,160 Speaker 1: to say yes, basically meaning that the path of least 346 00:21:48,200 --> 00:21:50,800 Speaker 1: resistance is the one that you don't always want to choose, 347 00:21:50,840 --> 00:21:55,119 Speaker 1: but you just constantly go down. Another way to describe 348 00:21:55,160 --> 00:21:57,919 Speaker 1: this inno. The psychological idea that explains this is called 349 00:21:58,640 --> 00:22:03,240 Speaker 1: nudge theory, and nudge theory essentially says again, your phones 350 00:22:03,720 --> 00:22:07,679 Speaker 1: have been designed to give you the impression of choice, 351 00:22:08,240 --> 00:22:12,720 Speaker 1: but in actuality, every choice you make, like when to 352 00:22:12,760 --> 00:22:16,560 Speaker 1: pick up your phone, how long to scroll for, when 353 00:22:16,600 --> 00:22:20,359 Speaker 1: to turn it off, you are actually being subtly nudged 354 00:22:20,359 --> 00:22:23,960 Speaker 1: towards by design features that were intended to get you 355 00:22:24,000 --> 00:22:27,040 Speaker 1: into that space. I feel like that's all words. I'll 356 00:22:27,040 --> 00:22:30,359 Speaker 1: give you some examples. The best example is like the 357 00:22:30,480 --> 00:22:33,560 Speaker 1: use of blue light rather than more warm light. Blue 358 00:22:33,600 --> 00:22:36,840 Speaker 1: light is more attention grabbing than natural light, meaning it's 359 00:22:36,840 --> 00:22:40,359 Speaker 1: harder to pull your eyes away from the screen. I 360 00:22:40,400 --> 00:22:43,520 Speaker 1: also feel like even the design of the screen gets 361 00:22:43,600 --> 00:22:49,359 Speaker 1: us trapped. Like that small screen, it occupies your whole 362 00:22:49,720 --> 00:22:53,760 Speaker 1: field of vision. It basically gives you tunnel vision compared 363 00:22:53,800 --> 00:22:55,920 Speaker 1: to a TV, compared to an iPad, compared to even 364 00:22:55,920 --> 00:23:00,280 Speaker 1: a laptop. Even like the size of these items, it's 365 00:23:00,320 --> 00:23:02,639 Speaker 1: so hard for your vision to like pull away from it. 366 00:23:02,920 --> 00:23:06,480 Speaker 1: We get sucked in attentionally. And that's before we even 367 00:23:06,520 --> 00:23:10,600 Speaker 1: add on other features of apps that were designed with 368 00:23:10,640 --> 00:23:13,880 Speaker 1: the phone in mind, like the infinite scroll of social media, 369 00:23:13,960 --> 00:23:16,200 Speaker 1: all these other addictive properties that we could get into 370 00:23:16,960 --> 00:23:20,760 Speaker 1: Essentially like it is you against a team of very 371 00:23:20,840 --> 00:23:26,439 Speaker 1: smart people who essentially were paid to get you hooked. 372 00:23:27,920 --> 00:23:31,919 Speaker 1: There's the same developmental psychologist I mentioned before, Michelle Drewan. 373 00:23:32,240 --> 00:23:34,360 Speaker 1: She's done so much research on this, and she speaks 374 00:23:34,400 --> 00:23:36,760 Speaker 1: about I think it was in her book. She speaks 375 00:23:36,760 --> 00:23:38,800 Speaker 1: about how she realized she had a problem with her 376 00:23:38,800 --> 00:23:42,119 Speaker 1: phone when she began to understood that her phone behaved 377 00:23:42,680 --> 00:23:45,439 Speaker 1: just like someone close to her in her life. It 378 00:23:45,480 --> 00:23:49,439 Speaker 1: made noises, It commanded her attention, It asked her to 379 00:23:49,520 --> 00:23:54,560 Speaker 1: resolve issues, alerted her to problems. It like basically communicated 380 00:23:54,960 --> 00:23:57,879 Speaker 1: with her. And she talks about like how we groom 381 00:23:57,960 --> 00:24:02,000 Speaker 1: our phone to like remove smudges, how we always have 382 00:24:02,119 --> 00:24:04,760 Speaker 1: it close to us. We become nervous if we can't 383 00:24:04,800 --> 00:24:09,239 Speaker 1: find it, or if the battery dies again, dying, like 384 00:24:09,720 --> 00:24:13,639 Speaker 1: our phone is almost this human thing we've essentially come to. 385 00:24:14,720 --> 00:24:18,560 Speaker 1: I don't know if it's like anthropomorphised, but like assign 386 00:24:19,480 --> 00:24:23,840 Speaker 1: our phones with human qualities, assign this non human object 387 00:24:24,359 --> 00:24:27,639 Speaker 1: with the characteristics that a friend would have or a 388 00:24:27,680 --> 00:24:30,840 Speaker 1: partner would have, and that alters our emotional and cognitive 389 00:24:30,880 --> 00:24:34,200 Speaker 1: response to that object, meaning we feel a greater sense 390 00:24:34,280 --> 00:24:39,120 Speaker 1: of dependency, meaning we feel like us in our phones 391 00:24:39,880 --> 00:24:45,639 Speaker 1: are in a relationship. They fulfilled the psychological needs and 392 00:24:45,680 --> 00:24:50,160 Speaker 1: the psychological deficits that have come with friendship being harder, 393 00:24:50,200 --> 00:24:55,760 Speaker 1: relationships being harder that they created like it has replaced 394 00:24:56,600 --> 00:25:01,800 Speaker 1: the need for a real world companion. Essentially, not always, 395 00:25:01,800 --> 00:25:06,080 Speaker 1: but like in a small way, when we rely upon 396 00:25:06,119 --> 00:25:12,080 Speaker 1: an inanimate object to fulfill our intimate emotional needs, of course, 397 00:25:12,119 --> 00:25:15,920 Speaker 1: that is going to have bleed on effects to how 398 00:25:15,960 --> 00:25:19,439 Speaker 1: we eventually and as a society, begin to relate to 399 00:25:19,440 --> 00:25:23,000 Speaker 1: one another. And that's why I think, you know, when 400 00:25:23,040 --> 00:25:25,679 Speaker 1: the question comes up of like why does this matter? Well, 401 00:25:25,720 --> 00:25:30,200 Speaker 1: it matters because human relationships matter, and they are much 402 00:25:30,240 --> 00:25:33,000 Speaker 1: more important than a relationship with an ananimate object. But 403 00:25:33,040 --> 00:25:34,919 Speaker 1: if you are not conscious, and if you are not 404 00:25:35,080 --> 00:25:39,080 Speaker 1: cognizant of how much time you are spending with this 405 00:25:39,119 --> 00:25:42,000 Speaker 1: device and spending with this technology, pretty soon it can 406 00:25:42,080 --> 00:25:45,560 Speaker 1: become your primary relationship. I had this realization a few 407 00:25:45,600 --> 00:25:49,200 Speaker 1: years ago when I started truly calculating how many days 408 00:25:49,200 --> 00:25:51,880 Speaker 1: of my life I literally miss per year from being 409 00:25:51,920 --> 00:25:55,000 Speaker 1: on my phone. Are you ready for this number? If 410 00:25:55,000 --> 00:25:57,400 Speaker 1: you have a screen time of six hours a day, 411 00:25:57,960 --> 00:26:01,400 Speaker 1: you will spend ninety days each year you're on your phone. 412 00:26:01,640 --> 00:26:05,920 Speaker 1: That is ninety nine to zero full days on a screen, 413 00:26:07,320 --> 00:26:10,640 Speaker 1: consuming things that you will likely not remember in twenty 414 00:26:10,640 --> 00:26:14,440 Speaker 1: four hours time. Let that sink in ninety days. If 415 00:26:14,480 --> 00:26:17,440 Speaker 1: I'm being honest, I have that problem. I know a 416 00:26:17,480 --> 00:26:19,040 Speaker 1: lot of people have that problem. I'm not going to 417 00:26:19,240 --> 00:26:22,479 Speaker 1: sit here and claim to be like this person who 418 00:26:22,560 --> 00:26:28,200 Speaker 1: has the perfect relationship with technology and with her phone. However, 419 00:26:29,520 --> 00:26:33,200 Speaker 1: I do feel like we need some new strategies because 420 00:26:33,240 --> 00:26:36,359 Speaker 1: that is a lot of time that we cannot get back, 421 00:26:36,400 --> 00:26:38,760 Speaker 1: and that is a lot of time that, if we 422 00:26:38,840 --> 00:26:41,639 Speaker 1: are being honest, would be better spent with the people 423 00:26:41,680 --> 00:26:46,480 Speaker 1: we love actually physically experiencing the world, or at least 424 00:26:46,560 --> 00:26:50,760 Speaker 1: working or caring about something that is more permanent and 425 00:26:50,800 --> 00:26:53,679 Speaker 1: more meaningful. The way that we are going to do 426 00:26:53,720 --> 00:27:00,880 Speaker 1: this is essentially adding friction back in where these technology 427 00:27:01,000 --> 00:27:06,480 Speaker 1: companies took friction out, essentially make it harder to use 428 00:27:06,600 --> 00:27:10,040 Speaker 1: technology have boundaries the way that you would for like 429 00:27:10,119 --> 00:27:16,560 Speaker 1: a toxic relationship. Right. I will also say, if you 430 00:27:16,640 --> 00:27:19,440 Speaker 1: want to experiment with going phone free, or at least 431 00:27:19,520 --> 00:27:22,600 Speaker 1: smartphone free, it's actually not as doom and gloom as 432 00:27:22,600 --> 00:27:25,679 Speaker 1: you may think. There is this whole social movement of 433 00:27:25,760 --> 00:27:30,760 Speaker 1: people right now going smartphone free, going technology free, going 434 00:27:30,800 --> 00:27:34,080 Speaker 1: social media free, and as much as I'm not going 435 00:27:34,080 --> 00:27:37,359 Speaker 1: to again recommend it, like early studies do show they 436 00:27:37,400 --> 00:27:41,200 Speaker 1: are a lot happier even if they lose some convenience, 437 00:27:41,800 --> 00:27:44,320 Speaker 1: Like they are doing better than most of us. A 438 00:27:44,320 --> 00:27:48,240 Speaker 1: study from twenty eighteen had three hundred people just share 439 00:27:48,280 --> 00:27:52,360 Speaker 1: a single meal at a restaurant with their family and friends, 440 00:27:52,840 --> 00:27:55,280 Speaker 1: and they either you know, had their phone on the 441 00:27:55,320 --> 00:27:59,679 Speaker 1: table or had their phone put away, And those people, 442 00:27:59,800 --> 00:28:04,240 Speaker 1: just in that moment had an increased level of happiness 443 00:28:04,240 --> 00:28:08,200 Speaker 1: in social harmony and fulfillment compared to the people who 444 00:28:08,720 --> 00:28:12,240 Speaker 1: had their phones present. So even in those small moments 445 00:28:12,280 --> 00:28:16,959 Speaker 1: like choosing to resist does make you feel better. Another 446 00:28:17,000 --> 00:28:20,920 Speaker 1: study found things from like twenty twenty four, three quarters 447 00:28:20,920 --> 00:28:23,359 Speaker 1: of people who left their phones at home just for 448 00:28:23,440 --> 00:28:26,640 Speaker 1: a day also felt happier in the long run, that 449 00:28:27,040 --> 00:28:29,960 Speaker 1: impact I think lasted like a week. And the final 450 00:28:30,000 --> 00:28:31,560 Speaker 1: study I want to talk about here is this twenty 451 00:28:31,600 --> 00:28:34,920 Speaker 1: twenty five study that found that going without social media 452 00:28:35,000 --> 00:28:40,000 Speaker 1: and the internet for two weeks psychologically and emotionally reset 453 00:28:40,120 --> 00:28:45,720 Speaker 1: people's entire moods. Going forward, ninety one percent of the 454 00:28:45,720 --> 00:28:49,040 Speaker 1: people in this experiment felt better in the weeks and 455 00:28:49,080 --> 00:28:55,080 Speaker 1: months afterwards. That's the option here, setting boundaries, creating more friction, 456 00:28:55,720 --> 00:29:00,640 Speaker 1: having those phone free periods, having those phone free moments months. 457 00:29:00,880 --> 00:29:02,480 Speaker 1: You don't have to start with two weeks. I think, 458 00:29:02,600 --> 00:29:07,400 Speaker 1: just start with designing your home to be less technology friendly. 459 00:29:08,400 --> 00:29:11,320 Speaker 1: Having like no phone zones in your house or like 460 00:29:11,440 --> 00:29:14,560 Speaker 1: a designated phone zone, I think is like an incredibly 461 00:29:14,720 --> 00:29:18,880 Speaker 1: important strategy here. I saw this woman talk about the 462 00:29:19,280 --> 00:29:22,520 Speaker 1: always be charging trick in like this New York Times article. 463 00:29:23,000 --> 00:29:26,160 Speaker 1: So essentially what she's doing to stop her phone from 464 00:29:26,200 --> 00:29:28,760 Speaker 1: interrupting her relationship and stop her phone from interrupting her 465 00:29:28,800 --> 00:29:31,360 Speaker 1: life is that she says, I can use my phone 466 00:29:31,400 --> 00:29:34,360 Speaker 1: as much as I want, but if I'm going to 467 00:29:34,480 --> 00:29:37,600 Speaker 1: use it, it must always be charging. And she only 468 00:29:37,600 --> 00:29:41,160 Speaker 1: has a charger in one spot in her house. She 469 00:29:41,200 --> 00:29:44,000 Speaker 1: even speaks about needing, like I think she needed like 470 00:29:44,040 --> 00:29:48,560 Speaker 1: a recipe for something, and she like, obviously she can't 471 00:29:48,560 --> 00:29:50,200 Speaker 1: bring her phone to the kitchen, so she like hand 472 00:29:50,200 --> 00:29:52,640 Speaker 1: wrote the recipe from her phone and went kind of 473 00:29:52,680 --> 00:29:57,040 Speaker 1: analog with it. It's not completely taking away the need 474 00:29:57,080 --> 00:29:59,200 Speaker 1: for technology or the use of it. It's just creating 475 00:29:59,200 --> 00:30:02,480 Speaker 1: guardrails phone free evenings as well. I feel like just 476 00:30:02,520 --> 00:30:05,600 Speaker 1: saying two days a week, two afternoons a week, I'm 477 00:30:05,640 --> 00:30:07,520 Speaker 1: just not going to have my phone on me, I'm 478 00:30:07,520 --> 00:30:10,200 Speaker 1: going to go out, I'm going to risk it, I'm 479 00:30:10,240 --> 00:30:12,680 Speaker 1: going to see my friends without my phone, or I'm 480 00:30:12,680 --> 00:30:14,960 Speaker 1: going to get to the restaurant and put my phone 481 00:30:14,960 --> 00:30:20,240 Speaker 1: away is also incredibly valuable. And again those studies show 482 00:30:20,320 --> 00:30:24,720 Speaker 1: add intimacy back into our relationships, you know, because it's 483 00:30:24,720 --> 00:30:27,760 Speaker 1: not always the phone, it's like it's social media specifically 484 00:30:28,760 --> 00:30:32,120 Speaker 1: deleting social media when you walk through the door, or 485 00:30:32,160 --> 00:30:34,719 Speaker 1: only having it on your laptop. I was doing this 486 00:30:34,760 --> 00:30:37,360 Speaker 1: for a while as like I can only go on 487 00:30:37,400 --> 00:30:40,520 Speaker 1: social media when I'm outside my house, so like when 488 00:30:40,560 --> 00:30:43,880 Speaker 1: I walk, when I walk back in the door, I 489 00:30:43,880 --> 00:30:46,920 Speaker 1: don't know, five pm, six pm, like that app is 490 00:30:46,960 --> 00:30:50,840 Speaker 1: getting deleted, and then when I leave the next morning, 491 00:30:50,880 --> 00:30:53,840 Speaker 1: like that's when I can re download it. Just creating 492 00:30:53,920 --> 00:30:58,320 Speaker 1: again guard rails that say that essentially communicate to yourself 493 00:30:58,320 --> 00:30:59,680 Speaker 1: like this is not going to be the thing that's 494 00:30:59,680 --> 00:31:02,520 Speaker 1: allowed to dominate my life, Like this is not going 495 00:31:02,560 --> 00:31:06,360 Speaker 1: to be this omnipresent thing. I am actually in control 496 00:31:06,400 --> 00:31:08,240 Speaker 1: of this technology and what I want to do with 497 00:31:08,280 --> 00:31:10,840 Speaker 1: it and what it gets to do with me, and 498 00:31:10,880 --> 00:31:13,239 Speaker 1: even just creating that tiny bit of friction of like 499 00:31:13,280 --> 00:31:18,880 Speaker 1: deleting the app, maybe what it takes to just I 500 00:31:18,880 --> 00:31:21,800 Speaker 1: don't know, let it release. It's like kind of grip 501 00:31:21,840 --> 00:31:25,320 Speaker 1: from your mind. Also, like social media free weekends, I 502 00:31:25,320 --> 00:31:27,000 Speaker 1: feel like I'm just throwing heaps of things at you 503 00:31:27,000 --> 00:31:34,120 Speaker 1: guys and having Like, obviously, abstinence is one thing, not 504 00:31:34,280 --> 00:31:36,080 Speaker 1: spending as much time on your phone as one thing, 505 00:31:36,160 --> 00:31:37,880 Speaker 1: not spending as much time on social media as one thing. 506 00:31:37,920 --> 00:31:40,520 Speaker 1: But it's not going to be effective unless you also 507 00:31:40,560 --> 00:31:43,880 Speaker 1: have alternative habits for when you're bored, for when you're sad, 508 00:31:43,920 --> 00:31:46,960 Speaker 1: for when you're lonely. Again. The real reason and the 509 00:31:47,000 --> 00:31:50,720 Speaker 1: main reason I would say that technology and our phones 510 00:31:50,760 --> 00:31:52,600 Speaker 1: and our relationship to our phones have gotten to the 511 00:31:52,640 --> 00:31:56,200 Speaker 1: addictive point that they have is because they have become 512 00:31:57,480 --> 00:32:02,320 Speaker 1: the sole way that we know how to deal with feelings. 513 00:32:02,360 --> 00:32:05,400 Speaker 1: And so having a strategy, having something else that you 514 00:32:05,440 --> 00:32:09,960 Speaker 1: can do when those hard feelings comes up, starts to 515 00:32:10,120 --> 00:32:15,840 Speaker 1: interrupt that dependency cycle that begins with boredom, that begins 516 00:32:15,840 --> 00:32:19,360 Speaker 1: with sadness or loneliness, where the only kind of antidote 517 00:32:19,400 --> 00:32:23,200 Speaker 1: we have now is to scroll as a distraction, is 518 00:32:23,280 --> 00:32:25,840 Speaker 1: to put on a TV show on the background as 519 00:32:25,880 --> 00:32:31,560 Speaker 1: a distraction. Give yourself an alternative, give yourself, I don't know, 520 00:32:31,640 --> 00:32:35,560 Speaker 1: a journal practice, give yourself, have a puzzle that you're doing, 521 00:32:35,920 --> 00:32:40,800 Speaker 1: Have a friend that you call instead, Have anything in 522 00:32:40,840 --> 00:32:44,560 Speaker 1: your home, in your life that you can do first 523 00:32:45,120 --> 00:32:48,000 Speaker 1: before you immediately pick up your phone to avoid and 524 00:32:48,000 --> 00:32:50,800 Speaker 1: suppress whatever bad thing it is that you are feeling. 525 00:32:51,440 --> 00:32:53,160 Speaker 1: I think, at the end of the day, this is 526 00:32:53,320 --> 00:32:56,360 Speaker 1: somewhat of a value thing, right. You cannot change your 527 00:32:56,400 --> 00:33:00,240 Speaker 1: relationship with this technology unless you have a deep moment 528 00:33:00,280 --> 00:33:04,120 Speaker 1: with yourself and seriously consider what do I value more 529 00:33:05,080 --> 00:33:08,760 Speaker 1: quick to dopamine or deep connection, because that's really what 530 00:33:08,800 --> 00:33:12,480 Speaker 1: we're going up against. Do we want short term gratification 531 00:33:12,560 --> 00:33:16,040 Speaker 1: or long term gratification? The phone offers short term gratification. 532 00:33:16,400 --> 00:33:21,240 Speaker 1: Relationships offer long term gratification. And keeping that number in mind, 533 00:33:21,760 --> 00:33:25,520 Speaker 1: actually doing the math with your screen time, how many 534 00:33:25,600 --> 00:33:29,000 Speaker 1: days are you losing? How many years of your life 535 00:33:29,000 --> 00:33:33,840 Speaker 1: are you to this object, To this ananimate object, I 536 00:33:33,880 --> 00:33:39,160 Speaker 1: think is the motivation we need to have healthier habits. 537 00:33:39,400 --> 00:33:41,920 Speaker 1: So I think I'm going to wrap the episode up there. 538 00:33:42,000 --> 00:33:44,760 Speaker 1: I feel like this was a very ranty episode. We 539 00:33:44,840 --> 00:33:48,200 Speaker 1: touched on some psychology, but really I think the through 540 00:33:48,240 --> 00:33:50,920 Speaker 1: line is just be more conscious about how technology is 541 00:33:50,960 --> 00:33:58,880 Speaker 1: interrupting intimacy. Genuinely acknowledge if this has and it continues 542 00:33:58,920 --> 00:34:02,160 Speaker 1: to create problems and your relationships, and whether you want 543 00:34:02,160 --> 00:34:04,640 Speaker 1: it to continue to create that problem in your relationship, 544 00:34:05,000 --> 00:34:09,320 Speaker 1: and apply some of those strategies. Add the friction back 545 00:34:09,360 --> 00:34:13,280 Speaker 1: in so that being present with your friends, being present 546 00:34:13,320 --> 00:34:17,040 Speaker 1: with your partner, with your family is the easier thing 547 00:34:17,080 --> 00:34:21,319 Speaker 1: to do, and being online, being on social media, being 548 00:34:21,400 --> 00:34:24,359 Speaker 1: your phone is the harder path, is the path with 549 00:34:24,480 --> 00:34:28,200 Speaker 1: more resistance. All right, let's wrap it up. I want 550 00:34:28,200 --> 00:34:31,880 Speaker 1: to thank our researcher Lucy Davidson for her help with 551 00:34:32,000 --> 00:34:35,960 Speaker 1: this episode. If you have made it this far, leave 552 00:34:35,960 --> 00:34:38,600 Speaker 1: a little phone emoji down below so that I know 553 00:34:38,680 --> 00:34:41,440 Speaker 1: that you listened all the way to the end, and 554 00:34:41,480 --> 00:34:43,840 Speaker 1: if you have any more strategies around how you're going 555 00:34:43,880 --> 00:34:47,759 Speaker 1: to reshape change your relationship with technology, I'd also love 556 00:34:47,760 --> 00:34:50,040 Speaker 1: to hear it below. Make sure that you're following us 557 00:34:50,080 --> 00:34:53,960 Speaker 1: on Instagram. If you are listening on Spotify or Apple 558 00:34:54,000 --> 00:34:56,719 Speaker 1: as well. You may not know that the podcast is 559 00:34:56,719 --> 00:34:59,960 Speaker 1: now on Netflix. So if you want a more visual experience, 560 00:35:00,000 --> 00:35:02,040 Speaker 1: if you want to watch video episodes, there will be 561 00:35:02,080 --> 00:35:05,000 Speaker 1: a link in the description. In fact, there are many 562 00:35:05,080 --> 00:35:07,520 Speaker 1: links in the description that I'm just going to turn 563 00:35:07,520 --> 00:35:09,680 Speaker 1: your attention to. If you want to follow us, buy 564 00:35:09,680 --> 00:35:13,640 Speaker 1: the book, read the substacks, watch the video episodes. All 565 00:35:13,640 --> 00:35:17,480 Speaker 1: the self promotion goes on down there. I don't know 566 00:35:17,480 --> 00:35:19,080 Speaker 1: if I have anything else to say, just that I 567 00:35:19,080 --> 00:35:22,200 Speaker 1: hope you enjoyed this episode, and that I don't know 568 00:35:22,200 --> 00:35:24,080 Speaker 1: if be safe, be kind, be gentle to yourself. We 569 00:35:24,120 --> 00:35:25,479 Speaker 1: will talk very very soon.