1 00:00:01,360 --> 00:00:04,720 Speaker 1: This is a plausible minnesote of mission implausible. 2 00:00:07,920 --> 00:00:10,080 Speaker 2: You and I both spent time in South Asia, and 3 00:00:10,119 --> 00:00:13,040 Speaker 2: I don't think Americans think much about the region, but 4 00:00:13,080 --> 00:00:15,520 Speaker 2: it is a place that's taken really seriously by national 5 00:00:15,600 --> 00:00:18,960 Speaker 2: security professionals. The second and fifth largest countries in the 6 00:00:19,000 --> 00:00:22,599 Speaker 2: world are neighbors. They're nuclear powers, and they hate each other. 7 00:00:23,120 --> 00:00:26,160 Speaker 2: Pakistan has problems with terrorism and instability, and has even 8 00:00:26,239 --> 00:00:29,080 Speaker 2: used terrorism against India. The New York Times had a 9 00:00:29,160 --> 00:00:33,320 Speaker 2: story about street performers, mimes and top hats that are 10 00:00:33,320 --> 00:00:36,919 Speaker 2: painted head to toe in gold paint. The story is 11 00:00:36,960 --> 00:00:39,360 Speaker 2: that people in Pakistan who see these people on the 12 00:00:39,360 --> 00:00:43,760 Speaker 2: streets believe that they're either informants for the powerful ISI 13 00:00:43,880 --> 00:00:49,000 Speaker 2: military intelligence service or they're possibly CIA spies. What's interesting 14 00:00:49,080 --> 00:00:52,040 Speaker 2: is the conspiracy that people believe that essentially anything that 15 00:00:52,120 --> 00:00:55,400 Speaker 2: happens has to do with them being under surveillance or 16 00:00:55,440 --> 00:00:57,680 Speaker 2: that the powerful security services are involved. 17 00:00:57,960 --> 00:01:02,200 Speaker 1: I think what people don't realize is in Pakistan, most countries, 18 00:01:02,640 --> 00:01:06,760 Speaker 1: you've got like a country has an army, But in Pakistan, 19 00:01:06,840 --> 00:01:10,120 Speaker 1: it's an army that has a country, and it's exactly right, 20 00:01:10,280 --> 00:01:13,440 Speaker 1: exactly and who runs the army is actually this thing 21 00:01:13,640 --> 00:01:16,720 Speaker 1: what is it called the interncer Services Intelligence, And it's 22 00:01:16,760 --> 00:01:20,839 Speaker 1: this powerful intelligence agency that runs the military, that runs 23 00:01:20,880 --> 00:01:23,920 Speaker 1: the country. And so I think people are paranoid and 24 00:01:24,400 --> 00:01:27,119 Speaker 1: frightened about how their country is run and the role 25 00:01:27,200 --> 00:01:30,280 Speaker 1: of security services in their society. 26 00:01:30,480 --> 00:01:33,800 Speaker 2: Yeah, the ISI is more powerful than the politicians. And 27 00:01:33,840 --> 00:01:36,440 Speaker 2: the ISI worked with US, meeting that CIA in the 28 00:01:36,480 --> 00:01:39,840 Speaker 2: United States government in Afghanistan against the Soviets, as we 29 00:01:39,880 --> 00:01:42,480 Speaker 2: know from Charlie Wilson's War for example, right, But they 30 00:01:42,480 --> 00:01:44,680 Speaker 2: also worked against our interests. In fact, that is, I 31 00:01:44,760 --> 00:01:47,400 Speaker 2: were the ones who created the Taliban in Afghanistan. 32 00:01:47,720 --> 00:01:50,120 Speaker 1: It's funny. I never served in Pakistan, but I served 33 00:01:50,160 --> 00:01:52,880 Speaker 1: on both sides of it, right, you know, in Afghanistan 34 00:01:52,960 --> 00:01:55,680 Speaker 1: and India. And I got to say, we always sat 35 00:01:55,760 --> 00:01:59,440 Speaker 1: with friends like ISI. Who needs enemies. They were just 36 00:01:59,520 --> 00:02:02,080 Speaker 1: as big as Taliban in a lot of ways. 37 00:02:02,320 --> 00:02:04,600 Speaker 2: They were allies with the United States for years and 38 00:02:04,720 --> 00:02:07,960 Speaker 2: years during the Cold War. But like you said, they've 39 00:02:08,000 --> 00:02:10,440 Speaker 2: been involved in supporting terrorist groups. They've been involved in 40 00:02:10,440 --> 00:02:14,160 Speaker 2: supporting groups that have done terrorist activity in India. So 41 00:02:14,240 --> 00:02:18,160 Speaker 2: it's a complicated, very complicated place, although. 42 00:02:17,919 --> 00:02:20,240 Speaker 1: It shouldn't be. So I want to go back to 43 00:02:20,560 --> 00:02:23,280 Speaker 1: two thousand, was it two thousand and eight? There was 44 00:02:23,320 --> 00:02:26,880 Speaker 1: this group called Lashkarrie Toiba based in Pakistan and it 45 00:02:27,000 --> 00:02:31,400 Speaker 1: attacked India. One hundred and sixty people were killed, including 46 00:02:31,480 --> 00:02:34,760 Speaker 1: six Americans in Bombay or Mumbai as they call it now. 47 00:02:35,280 --> 00:02:39,640 Speaker 1: And lash caarry Toiba is an instrument of ISI and 48 00:02:39,880 --> 00:02:43,160 Speaker 1: the head of lashcarriy Toybe. Even after they attacked India 49 00:02:43,240 --> 00:02:46,040 Speaker 1: and killed all these Americans, this guy half as sais 50 00:02:46,080 --> 00:02:49,280 Speaker 1: the head of lashkarriy Toiba. He never even went to jail. 51 00:02:49,520 --> 00:02:51,760 Speaker 1: He was supposed to be in house confinement and he 52 00:02:51,800 --> 00:02:55,040 Speaker 1: didn't even do that because ISID they were so close 53 00:02:55,080 --> 00:02:57,680 Speaker 1: to him that they didn't give a shit. Despite Americans 54 00:02:57,720 --> 00:02:59,840 Speaker 1: killed in one hundred and sixty Indians, we almost went 55 00:02:59,880 --> 00:03:03,040 Speaker 1: to nuclear war over that between the Indians and the Pakistanis. 56 00:03:03,240 --> 00:03:05,720 Speaker 2: But again to go back to the complexity of this thing, 57 00:03:06,160 --> 00:03:09,880 Speaker 2: those things are all true, and Pakistan has supported the 58 00:03:09,919 --> 00:03:12,400 Speaker 2: Taliban and done these things in India. But at the 59 00:03:12,400 --> 00:03:16,840 Speaker 2: same time, there is probably no service that did more 60 00:03:17,080 --> 00:03:20,280 Speaker 2: to help US kill and capture key l KAEDA members 61 00:03:20,320 --> 00:03:24,120 Speaker 2: than Pakistan. Most of the top people that the US 62 00:03:24,200 --> 00:03:27,440 Speaker 2: government went after who were involved in killing Westerners and 63 00:03:27,480 --> 00:03:30,960 Speaker 2: Americans in cooperation with the Pakistanis were the way that 64 00:03:30,960 --> 00:03:32,920 Speaker 2: we often got to these guys. But also at the 65 00:03:32,919 --> 00:03:36,120 Speaker 2: same time, as you recall, Bin Laden himself was living 66 00:03:36,120 --> 00:03:39,200 Speaker 2: in Pakistan within a mile of their version of West Point. 67 00:03:39,440 --> 00:03:42,400 Speaker 1: Let's go back to the conspiracy theory, right, these guys 68 00:03:42,560 --> 00:03:45,960 Speaker 1: are either CIA plants right who we're standing. So they're 69 00:03:46,040 --> 00:03:51,040 Speaker 1: standing on street corners, motionless, covered in like metal paint, 70 00:03:51,120 --> 00:03:54,000 Speaker 1: gold or silver paint for tips or for whatever they're doing. 71 00:03:54,240 --> 00:03:57,880 Speaker 1: So I think there's some plausibility in this, not that 72 00:03:57,920 --> 00:04:00,560 Speaker 1: I believe this, but we did have surveillance, and one 73 00:04:00,600 --> 00:04:03,920 Speaker 1: of the most difficult things to pick up was static surveillance, 74 00:04:03,920 --> 00:04:08,040 Speaker 1: where a surveillance would stay in one point exactly. 75 00:04:08,040 --> 00:04:10,240 Speaker 2: If we're going to go meet a source, the one 76 00:04:10,240 --> 00:04:12,600 Speaker 2: thing we have to know with one hundred percent certainty 77 00:04:12,640 --> 00:04:14,760 Speaker 2: is that we haven't been followed, that nobody sees us 78 00:04:14,840 --> 00:04:17,120 Speaker 2: meet that source. And one of the ways we do 79 00:04:17,160 --> 00:04:20,360 Speaker 2: that is we have to move throughout the city or 80 00:04:20,360 --> 00:04:23,080 Speaker 2: wherever we are to prove that we don't have surveillance. 81 00:04:23,120 --> 00:04:25,960 Speaker 2: And the problem is if there's a massive number of surveillance, 82 00:04:26,040 --> 00:04:29,320 Speaker 2: many of them aren't moving with you. It's very difficult 83 00:04:29,360 --> 00:04:31,920 Speaker 2: to know whether that person at that corner is working 84 00:04:31,960 --> 00:04:34,839 Speaker 2: for the service and paying attention to you, or whether 85 00:04:35,040 --> 00:04:36,640 Speaker 2: they're just a regular bystander. 86 00:04:37,080 --> 00:04:39,279 Speaker 1: Right, And unlike in the movies, we don't try to 87 00:04:39,440 --> 00:04:41,400 Speaker 1: shake them, We just want to try to bore them. 88 00:04:41,920 --> 00:04:45,160 Speaker 1: But a surveillance who just stands there and you see them, 89 00:04:45,200 --> 00:04:47,320 Speaker 1: you don't know whether he's, you know, somebody pretending to 90 00:04:47,320 --> 00:04:50,160 Speaker 1: be a stantue or whether he's he's Also like taking 91 00:04:50,200 --> 00:04:52,719 Speaker 1: down your license plate number and noticing when you go by. 92 00:04:52,839 --> 00:04:55,039 Speaker 2: And passing it on to someone further down the line. 93 00:04:55,040 --> 00:04:57,680 Speaker 2: So you could drive through the city never see anybody 94 00:04:57,720 --> 00:05:01,039 Speaker 2: following you, but this people standing at corners could be 95 00:05:01,080 --> 00:05:03,719 Speaker 2: actually watching you and passing you on to the next ones. 96 00:05:03,760 --> 00:05:05,560 Speaker 1: I wouldn't name the country, but I'd served in a 97 00:05:05,600 --> 00:05:07,640 Speaker 1: third world country for a while, and out in front 98 00:05:07,640 --> 00:05:10,240 Speaker 1: of my house was a little tea stand like this. 99 00:05:10,360 --> 00:05:12,560 Speaker 1: The couple of guys hunched down the ground and they 100 00:05:12,600 --> 00:05:14,480 Speaker 1: had a little fire and they made tea if you 101 00:05:14,560 --> 00:05:16,679 Speaker 1: went by. And it turns out it was a real 102 00:05:16,760 --> 00:05:20,520 Speaker 1: tea stand. But what their real job was was determine 103 00:05:20,520 --> 00:05:22,920 Speaker 1: who was coming and going from my house. So when 104 00:05:22,960 --> 00:05:25,039 Speaker 1: I left, when I went, when my kids went to school, 105 00:05:25,080 --> 00:05:28,840 Speaker 1: they would mark this all down and they were static surveillance. 106 00:05:28,920 --> 00:05:30,479 Speaker 1: They just sort of sat there and watched what I 107 00:05:30,520 --> 00:05:32,800 Speaker 1: was doing and there was no getting around them. 108 00:05:32,839 --> 00:05:35,400 Speaker 2: Well, then you got to give the Pakistani Isi credit. 109 00:05:35,440 --> 00:05:37,680 Speaker 2: Then if they're able to get guys to paint their 110 00:05:37,800 --> 00:05:41,040 Speaker 2: entire bodies in gold and stand on the stand on 111 00:05:41,040 --> 00:05:44,680 Speaker 2: street corners to follow the occasional foreigner, good for them, right. 112 00:05:44,720 --> 00:05:47,280 Speaker 1: Well, I think the conspiracy theory though, is not that 113 00:05:47,279 --> 00:05:50,760 Speaker 1: they're after foreigners, that they were after every day Pakistani's 114 00:05:50,800 --> 00:05:54,760 Speaker 1: And I think what doesn't work these days is if 115 00:05:54,800 --> 00:05:58,560 Speaker 1: you wanted to have static surveillance, it's much easy to 116 00:05:58,560 --> 00:06:00,320 Speaker 1: do it technically. I mean, you just put a ambra 117 00:06:00,480 --> 00:06:04,200 Speaker 1: up and you know, because you're depending on this human 118 00:06:04,279 --> 00:06:08,040 Speaker 1: being who's standing at the street corner for ten hours, 119 00:06:08,080 --> 00:06:10,720 Speaker 1: that he's going to remember, you know when you went 120 00:06:10,800 --> 00:06:13,599 Speaker 1: by he was, wasn't daydreaming that he writes down the 121 00:06:13,640 --> 00:06:16,520 Speaker 1: right license plate. It's just much easier to stick a 122 00:06:16,560 --> 00:06:19,520 Speaker 1: camera up and do it without the human factor involvement. 123 00:06:20,279 --> 00:06:27,120 Speaker 2: Let's take a break, we'll be right back, and we're back. 124 00:06:28,279 --> 00:06:30,840 Speaker 2: But it is true that the Pakistan government and many 125 00:06:31,160 --> 00:06:35,160 Speaker 2: internal services want to monitor the society and make sure 126 00:06:35,160 --> 00:06:37,440 Speaker 2: there's no political opposition or anybody who can threaten the 127 00:06:38,200 --> 00:06:40,160 Speaker 2: ruling powers. But also in that part of the world, 128 00:06:40,200 --> 00:06:45,240 Speaker 2: conspiracy theories are really prevalent. Remember there was catastrophic floods 129 00:06:45,240 --> 00:06:47,440 Speaker 2: in twenty ten, and I remember at the time people 130 00:06:47,440 --> 00:06:49,800 Speaker 2: asserted that they had been caused by the CIA's weather 131 00:06:49,920 --> 00:06:52,960 Speaker 2: controlling technology. They thought that oh Sama bin Laden was 132 00:06:53,000 --> 00:06:56,680 Speaker 2: actually Jewish, and also that the CIA staged the assassination 133 00:06:56,720 --> 00:06:59,160 Speaker 2: attempt on Malala use of side when. 134 00:06:59,080 --> 00:07:04,400 Speaker 1: I never got Yanistan is even our allies would say, like, oh, UCA, 135 00:07:04,440 --> 00:07:07,560 Speaker 1: guys like bin Laden is CIA, or bin Laden is Jewish. 136 00:07:07,640 --> 00:07:11,480 Speaker 1: You guys are working with the ISI the Pakistanis to 137 00:07:11,600 --> 00:07:15,320 Speaker 1: run al Qaeda, because what America really wants to do 138 00:07:15,440 --> 00:07:18,400 Speaker 1: is take over Afghanistan, like is if we wanted this 139 00:07:18,520 --> 00:07:21,280 Speaker 1: place right for all our natural resources, Like we want 140 00:07:21,320 --> 00:07:24,440 Speaker 1: to take over this desperately poor country. But I certainly 141 00:07:24,480 --> 00:07:27,800 Speaker 1: saw that in Afghanistan, all these crazy theories about the 142 00:07:27,800 --> 00:07:28,920 Speaker 1: ISI and CIA. 143 00:07:28,960 --> 00:07:31,640 Speaker 2: Where did you see that kind of paranoia and conspiracy 144 00:07:31,640 --> 00:07:34,640 Speaker 2: stuff in India? Because obviously the Indias and the Pakistanis 145 00:07:34,640 --> 00:07:36,280 Speaker 2: are the ones that are sort of at each other's throat. 146 00:07:36,520 --> 00:07:39,520 Speaker 1: That's a good question. I saw a huge amount of 147 00:07:39,600 --> 00:07:42,120 Speaker 1: paranoid in place like Afghanistan with no central government. 148 00:07:42,400 --> 00:07:43,200 Speaker 2: In India, it. 149 00:07:43,160 --> 00:07:47,240 Speaker 1: Was different because they actually had reason to be paranoid. 150 00:07:47,480 --> 00:07:49,720 Speaker 2: It's a massive country. It's the fifth largest country in 151 00:07:49,760 --> 00:07:51,560 Speaker 2: the world, right next to the second largest country in 152 00:07:51,600 --> 00:07:54,160 Speaker 2: the world. Nuclear weapons on both sides of the border 153 00:07:54,880 --> 00:07:56,560 Speaker 2: terrorism instability. 154 00:07:56,880 --> 00:07:58,720 Speaker 1: It may come as a surprise to the audience, but 155 00:07:58,760 --> 00:08:02,520 Speaker 1: if there is ever a nuclear conflagration, it's probably most 156 00:08:02,680 --> 00:08:05,360 Speaker 1: likely going to be Indian Pakistan. I do want to 157 00:08:05,400 --> 00:08:09,120 Speaker 1: say though, that when Indian Pakistan were united under the 158 00:08:09,120 --> 00:08:12,320 Speaker 1: British and the Raj they did undertake one of the 159 00:08:12,360 --> 00:08:18,240 Speaker 1: most incredible feats of espionage ever. Even Rudyard Kipling and Kim, 160 00:08:18,440 --> 00:08:22,280 Speaker 1: his famous novel is about espionage, and there's parts of 161 00:08:22,360 --> 00:08:24,520 Speaker 1: Kim that are taken from true life. There's the Great 162 00:08:24,560 --> 00:08:28,000 Speaker 1: Game and the eighteen fifties, sixties and seventies between Britain 163 00:08:28,040 --> 00:08:30,400 Speaker 1: that ran India and Russia that was coming down, and 164 00:08:30,560 --> 00:08:33,680 Speaker 1: the place in the space in between Tibet and China 165 00:08:33,720 --> 00:08:36,160 Speaker 1: and all that part of the Krikora Mountains. They didn't 166 00:08:36,160 --> 00:08:38,360 Speaker 1: know it was there, and so the British needed to 167 00:08:38,440 --> 00:08:41,720 Speaker 1: know and they got two Indians known as panned It 168 00:08:41,800 --> 00:08:45,600 Speaker 1: one and panned It two, and these guys were outfitted 169 00:08:45,600 --> 00:08:50,080 Speaker 1: as Buddhist monks and they were given Buddhist rosaries, and 170 00:08:50,280 --> 00:08:54,120 Speaker 1: each rosary bead was ten thousand steps, and they figured 171 00:08:54,160 --> 00:08:57,079 Speaker 1: it out that they had thirty three inches per step, 172 00:08:57,160 --> 00:09:00,719 Speaker 1: so one ring around was five miles. And they had 173 00:09:00,760 --> 00:09:03,079 Speaker 1: prayer wheels and they would note in the prayer wheel 174 00:09:03,080 --> 00:09:05,720 Speaker 1: on a little piece of paper how many miles they went, 175 00:09:05,800 --> 00:09:08,200 Speaker 1: how many times they did this rosary. And they also 176 00:09:08,280 --> 00:09:12,040 Speaker 1: had little thermometers where they would check at what level 177 00:09:12,240 --> 00:09:15,200 Speaker 1: the tea boiled, because they could tell their altitude. And 178 00:09:15,240 --> 00:09:18,720 Speaker 1: they went out and they created up until the nineteen sixties, 179 00:09:18,920 --> 00:09:22,800 Speaker 1: some of the most accurate maps of the Hindu Kush 180 00:09:23,080 --> 00:09:25,960 Speaker 1: and of the Caracorn mountains. And these guys went out 181 00:09:26,120 --> 00:09:32,800 Speaker 1: for years. So these Indian spies, operating by themselves disguised 182 00:09:32,840 --> 00:09:37,920 Speaker 1: as Buddhist monks, were some of the greatest, most successful 183 00:09:38,120 --> 00:09:42,160 Speaker 1: spies and conducting I think one of the most interesting 184 00:09:42,240 --> 00:09:44,640 Speaker 1: spy operations ever. And if they were caught, they would 185 00:09:44,640 --> 00:09:48,840 Speaker 1: have been murdered. Buddhist prayer rosaries have one hundred and 186 00:09:48,880 --> 00:09:52,360 Speaker 1: eight beads, but their rosary only had one hundred beads 187 00:09:52,400 --> 00:09:54,640 Speaker 1: on it. If they ever anybody'd ever counted them, they 188 00:09:54,640 --> 00:09:55,920 Speaker 1: would have been executed. 189 00:09:56,080 --> 00:09:59,440 Speaker 2: So they were probably the greatest spies until these fully 190 00:09:59,520 --> 00:10:02,760 Speaker 2: gold painted dudes on the street corners in Pakistan. Did 191 00:10:02,760 --> 00:10:03,920 Speaker 2: you ever paint yourself gold? 192 00:10:04,200 --> 00:10:06,760 Speaker 1: I never did, but I have been I have been 193 00:10:06,800 --> 00:10:09,960 Speaker 1: a static surveillant. However, one of my favorite surveillance stories 194 00:10:10,080 --> 00:10:12,960 Speaker 1: was in South Asia. I got lost and I had 195 00:10:12,960 --> 00:10:15,199 Speaker 1: my two kids in the car and they weren't feeling well, 196 00:10:15,720 --> 00:10:19,480 Speaker 1: and I knew that the car next to me were 197 00:10:19,559 --> 00:10:23,920 Speaker 1: surveillance local guys. And I looked over at him and like, 198 00:10:24,040 --> 00:10:26,640 Speaker 1: you're not supposed to acknowledge them, And I just said 199 00:10:27,440 --> 00:10:30,480 Speaker 1: which way to go back home? They spoke English, and 200 00:10:30,520 --> 00:10:32,920 Speaker 1: they pretended. I said, come on, do I go right 201 00:10:33,000 --> 00:10:34,959 Speaker 1: or left up here? And one of the guys looked 202 00:10:35,000 --> 00:10:37,440 Speaker 1: at me and he sheepishly smiled and he went go 203 00:10:37,600 --> 00:10:41,920 Speaker 1: that way, thank you. You know, It's like these were 204 00:10:42,000 --> 00:10:44,680 Speaker 1: like nice surveillance. I doubt that they put that in 205 00:10:44,720 --> 00:10:45,760 Speaker 1: their surveillance report. 206 00:10:46,120 --> 00:10:49,120 Speaker 2: I was driving home one time in Moscow and I 207 00:10:49,160 --> 00:10:51,320 Speaker 2: went to cross one of the big boulevards and got hit. 208 00:10:51,440 --> 00:10:53,600 Speaker 2: My car got hit, so I would run a red light. 209 00:10:54,040 --> 00:10:55,679 Speaker 2: It was a student, a Middle Eastern student, and the 210 00:10:55,679 --> 00:10:58,120 Speaker 2: student got out and there's police on the street corners 211 00:10:58,120 --> 00:11:01,080 Speaker 2: all over Russia, and police came up and the students 212 00:11:01,120 --> 00:11:03,560 Speaker 2: started screaming in better Russian than I had that I 213 00:11:03,600 --> 00:11:05,719 Speaker 2: had gone through the red light, and the policeman was 214 00:11:05,760 --> 00:11:08,000 Speaker 2: listening to him, and then the policeman looks off to 215 00:11:08,040 --> 00:11:10,680 Speaker 2: the side, and my surveillance who had been following me, 216 00:11:11,360 --> 00:11:13,920 Speaker 2: were sort of standing on the street corner nearby, and 217 00:11:14,080 --> 00:11:17,480 Speaker 2: just motioned to the policeman to come over. The policeman 218 00:11:17,520 --> 00:11:20,200 Speaker 2: came over, chatted with the surveillance who had been following me, 219 00:11:20,720 --> 00:11:22,959 Speaker 2: came back out in the street and grabbed the student 220 00:11:23,640 --> 00:11:27,800 Speaker 2: and arrested him. And clearly the surveillance realized that I 221 00:11:27,920 --> 00:11:29,720 Speaker 2: was the one in the right and the other guy 222 00:11:29,760 --> 00:11:31,559 Speaker 2: had gone through the light, and so in that case, 223 00:11:31,760 --> 00:11:34,440 Speaker 2: my surveillance actually sort of helped me out of a jam. 224 00:11:34,679 --> 00:11:38,719 Speaker 1: So Jeda, I get why everyday pick Stanny's would be 225 00:11:38,760 --> 00:11:42,199 Speaker 1: paranoid to these creepy guys standing around looking like statues. 226 00:11:42,240 --> 00:11:45,679 Speaker 1: But I'm not thinking that isis professional as they are, 227 00:11:45,800 --> 00:11:48,959 Speaker 1: that they would use these guys for stantic surveillance. I 228 00:11:48,960 --> 00:11:49,800 Speaker 1: don't know, maybe they would. 229 00:11:49,880 --> 00:11:52,560 Speaker 2: I just think it comes from years and years of 230 00:11:52,600 --> 00:11:56,360 Speaker 2: living in a society that promotes conspiracy theories and has 231 00:11:56,440 --> 00:11:58,760 Speaker 2: been tracking and following their people for years and years. 232 00:11:58,800 --> 00:12:02,920 Speaker 2: So essentially, you have society that thinks everything possibly could 233 00:12:03,000 --> 00:12:05,079 Speaker 2: be controlled by the government because so many things are 234 00:12:05,080 --> 00:12:07,160 Speaker 2: controlled by the government. But I would suspect that these 235 00:12:07,200 --> 00:12:10,160 Speaker 2: poor dudes painted in all gold are probably not part 236 00:12:10,200 --> 00:12:12,800 Speaker 2: of the ISI. No, and I don't think they're being 237 00:12:12,840 --> 00:12:15,400 Speaker 2: paid very much either, So thank you for joining us. 238 00:12:15,520 --> 00:12:18,520 Speaker 2: Please join us for our next episode of Mission Implausible.