Speaker 1: This is the most dramatic podcast ever. And iHeartRadio podcast.
Speaker 1: Chris Harrison, Lauren Zema coming to you from the home
Speaker 1: office in Austin, Texas.
Speaker 2: Coming to you with a sixteen and a half year
Speaker 2: age gap, everybody, that's what.
Speaker 1: We're getting into today. Let's just rip that age band
Speaker 1: aid off. Is it different when an older man dates
Speaker 1: a younger woman as opposed to an older woman dating
Speaker 1: a younger man. Is it looked at through a different filter?
Speaker 1: Do we treat it different socially? Do we talk about
Speaker 1: them differently?
Speaker 2: So part of the reason this is coming up is because,
Speaker 2: at the time of recording of this podcast, Kristin Cavaleri
Speaker 2: is taking getting a little heat online for dating a
Speaker 2: younger guy. Kristin is thirty seven and she is dating
Speaker 2: a twenty four year old. And I am here to say,
Speaker 2: no heat needed. And I think this is a total
Speaker 2: sexist thing that happens where yes, for some reason, well
Speaker 2: you know what, I know the reason, But it does
Speaker 2: seem to be more accepted for men to date a
Speaker 2: younger woman versus a woman dating a younger man. If
Speaker 2: you're a woman dating a younger man, you're instantly looked
Speaker 2: at like you're a cougar or like you're like going
Speaker 2: through a phase versus I think men. It can be
Speaker 2: looked at as, oh, that's just a normal, healthy relationship.
Speaker 3: But what do you think?
Speaker 2: What is what do you think the stereotype? What's the
Speaker 2: reaction when a woman dates the younger guys?
Speaker 1: I was also curious. I was going to ask the
Speaker 1: heat that she's catching. I'm curious how that breaks down
Speaker 1: as far as gender goes. Is she catching more heat
Speaker 1: from other women or is she catching heat for men?
Speaker 3: You know what I mean? Interesting, No way to know
Speaker 3: the statistics, but.
Speaker 1: Because I would guess men probably.
Speaker 2: Well, that's why I wanted to ask you, what do
Speaker 2: you think what is the male reaction to this?
Speaker 1: I bet men would say, don't care who Kristin Cavalet
Speaker 1: if she's AND's not just her, I just mean a
Speaker 1: woman dating a younger man. And typically what you also
Speaker 1: see is the success rate right of this is a
Speaker 1: very successful woman. She's able to date a younger guy,
Speaker 1: and I don't know why she would catch heat for that.
Speaker 1: They are but thirteen years apart. If my math is correct.
Speaker 3: We're great at math here.
Speaker 1: But you know that the only thing I would say
Speaker 1: she's that it is dabbling in the I wouldn't want
Speaker 1: her to go younger. And it's not the age gap,
Speaker 1: it's the age. Twenty four is young. But that is
Speaker 1: presumably I'm just assuming this person's graduated college. Usually you
Speaker 1: graduate twenty two to twenty three, maybe right at twenty four,
Speaker 1: so at least they are out of college. Movie.
Speaker 2: We talk about the life place thing a lot, right,
Speaker 2: That's what I mean more of Yeah, I mean I
Speaker 2: think that for us is always a thing we talk
Speaker 2: about in age gap relationships. And by the way, I
Speaker 2: say this, what is an age cap?
Speaker 3: You know what I mean? Like, is it ten years
Speaker 3: or more?
Speaker 2: If it's less than ten years, do you have an
Speaker 2: age gap relationship.
Speaker 3: I don't think there's a definitive scale there.
Speaker 2: But I don't think we would have worked if, say,
Speaker 2: we'd both have been single, which we weren't, but if
Speaker 2: we'd started dating when I was in my early twenties
Speaker 2: and you were in your forties, because.
Speaker 1: I would have had no I would have been in
Speaker 1: my thirties, sorry, late thirties. But the difference too is
Speaker 1: I would have had kids by then, because I had kids.
Speaker 1: So I have two young children and I'm dating a
Speaker 1: much younger woman who's definitely not in that life place.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so life place difference. Do you both have kids?
Speaker 2: Do you both want kids? If you're fresh out of college,
Speaker 2: I think that can be tough because you might not
Speaker 2: have been in the working world yet you're still in
Speaker 2: that school mindset. But the most important factor to me
Speaker 2: in any relationship when it comes to age is really
Speaker 2: your maturity. Is how your maturity has developed and how
Speaker 2: you've allowed your life experiences to affect you.
Speaker 3: I do think maturity is a choice.
Speaker 2: And the reason I bring this up is because we're
Speaker 2: talking about the life place of young people.
Speaker 3: But we know a lot of people still know a
Speaker 3: lot of people who are older and are totally immature.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I complete knuckleheads have.
Speaker 2: Not allowed their life experiences to affect them. Who are
Speaker 2: We know people older than us who are not good
Speaker 2: at relationships because they've never learned how to be good
Speaker 2: at relationships. I think if you're younger, you might have
Speaker 2: been through like, we don't know when life's going to.
Speaker 3: Throw at us what it will.
Speaker 2: People who are younger can have already been through the
Speaker 2: death of a parent or like a hard upbringing, versus
Speaker 2: someone who's much older might have never been through either
Speaker 2: of those things.
Speaker 1: And I will say also, it'll probably force some conversations
Speaker 1: that need to be had sooner, Like you and I did,
Speaker 1: I wanted to make it clear, Hey, I'm not going
Speaker 1: to have more children. That's not in my future. Does
Speaker 1: that align with where you are in your life? Kristin Cavalary.
Speaker 1: I don't know where she is in her life as
Speaker 1: far as kids. But if this guy's twenty four, maybe
Speaker 1: he wants to be a dad. So again, what you
Speaker 1: need to probably forces conversations of where do you see
Speaker 1: yourself in three years, five years, ten years, Do you
Speaker 1: want to have kids? Are you entrepreneurial? Are you know?
Speaker 1: Those are just some conversations. When the age gap is bigger.
Speaker 1: I think those conversations become more important because the chances
Speaker 1: of you being on a separate page and on a
Speaker 1: different life path are greater.
Speaker 3: Well, you just.
Speaker 2: Hit kind of hit something I wanted to bring up to, which, okay,
Speaker 2: So maturity is a factor. What you want where you're headed.
Speaker 2: Life place is a factor. But the other half of
Speaker 2: life place can be that the person who's older does
Speaker 2: not want something that serious right now, do you know
Speaker 2: what I'm saying, like Kristin Cavalery.
Speaker 1: I was just going to say this too, that's funny
Speaker 1: that if it's a phase they're going through, but by
Speaker 1: the way, and it's okay, Like it's totally fine if
Speaker 1: this is just something you need to do.
Speaker 2: Yeah, like I well, and I don't want to okay,
Speaker 2: But there's a difference there. I don't like the phase
Speaker 2: thing because phase makes it seem like again yeah like,
Speaker 2: and there's this thing like, oh, this older woman just
Speaker 2: wants to try dating a younger guy or something. I'm
Speaker 2: saying life place in that. Kristin Cavalre has talked a
Speaker 2: lot about how she and I've interviewed her before she
Speaker 2: got married, had three kids, you know, she got divorced
Speaker 2: a couple of years ago. She's been really outspoken of saying,
Speaker 2: I'm not really looking for something serious right now. So
Speaker 2: maybe if she's tried to date people her own age,
Speaker 2: they're all looking for something serious and settling down. So
Speaker 2: maybe she's just dating someone who is not in a
Speaker 2: life place of like settle down serious relationship right now,
Speaker 2: and it's not really trying to date someone younger. It's
Speaker 2: just where that person's at right Madonna and Cher still
Speaker 2: doing this. Let me pull this up. This is an
Speaker 2: article from December twenty twenty three. Madonna she had dated
Speaker 2: a younger guy before this, but now she's dating a
Speaker 2: new younger guy. Madonna sixty five. This gentleman Josh Popper.
Speaker 2: Believe he's thirty one, so that's an over thirty year
Speaker 2: age gap. And then Cher, who has said online she
Speaker 2: is very in love with this guy. She's dating, Alexander Edwards.
Speaker 2: They have a forty year age gap, and they've been
Speaker 2: together for a couple of years, so Cher said in
Speaker 2: December twenty twenty two quote on paper, it's kind of ridiculous,
Speaker 2: but in real life we get along great.
Speaker 1: He's fabulous great. So, by the way, that's awesome. Good
Speaker 1: for them, and they've been quiet. I mean, I can't
Speaker 1: remember the last time I saw Share publicly doing anything odd.
Speaker 1: Side note, SHARE's house was two doors down from the
Speaker 1: original Bachelor mansion. Did really Yeah, she has a beautiful,
Speaker 1: sprawling estate overlooking the piece. Ever see her the Pacific Ocean? No?
Speaker 1: I mean, because what you see is the entryway to
Speaker 1: her villa asque like land.
Speaker 3: You can't sneak into SHARE's house.
Speaker 1: We tried, no, but it's funny. I was just she
Speaker 1: built that and like moved in while we were shooting
Speaker 1: those first couple of seasons at that old place on
Speaker 1: it's right on the pch right on the one one
Speaker 1: Highway overlooking the Pacific Ocean.
Speaker 3: Gosh, she could have grabbed a bachelor.
Speaker 1: Yes, good, but it's I like what you're saying in that.
Speaker 1: Look if they are happy with share, I love it.
Speaker 1: She's like, look, if you look at the statistics, No,
Speaker 1: this doesn't make any sense. It makes sense to us.
Speaker 2: Well, you hit on something earlier, like when we're talking
Speaker 2: about why this is more common to see with men
Speaker 2: dating younger women than women dating younger men. I do
Speaker 2: think the success factor is a thing, and unfortunately you're
Speaker 2: not seeing as men. I would say that I don't
Speaker 2: have the statistics, but I would guess there's not as
Speaker 2: many single like free of dealing, you know, like like
Speaker 2: single super successful women who can date and provide like
Speaker 2: for a younger person. And I don't like that that Again,
Speaker 2: I don't have the data. I don't like it if that.
Speaker 3: Is the truth.
Speaker 2: But typically I think these are that's not the situation
Speaker 2: you end up in.
Speaker 3: And Sharon Madonna, these are big age gaps.
Speaker 2: I will have questions in my mind about these age gaps.
Speaker 2: If this were a guy and a woman, I'd be like,
Speaker 2: I don't know, forty years is a lot, but you
Speaker 2: know they are they're able to do that and have
Speaker 2: that dynamic. Right now, if you were single, how much
Speaker 2: older of a woman would you date?
Speaker 1: Well, when I was single, I dated I think up
Speaker 1: to five years older than me. Okay was the oldest
Speaker 1: woman that I dated. I dated everything I really did
Speaker 1: across the spectrum. I didn't really pay attention to age
Speaker 1: at all to a certain degree. I mean, obviously, you
Speaker 1: don't want to go too young because then you just
Speaker 1: start losing things that you have in common and there's
Speaker 1: no you know, it's hard to have those commonalities and
Speaker 1: views on life and et cetera. But I didn't mind old,
Speaker 1: same age, younger. I didn't. I didn't really care. It
Speaker 1: was again, I'm like you, it's more about the life place,
Speaker 1: the emotional maturity, what you wanted and if we had
Speaker 1: that chemistry together.
Speaker 2: I am totally just injecting my own life into it.
Speaker 2: But I think when you get beyond twenty years that
Speaker 2: that's when it starts to raise questions for me, because
Speaker 2: then you're really starting to get into going back to
Speaker 2: life place, like what era of your life you're in, you.
Speaker 3: Know what I mean? Like you can be.
Speaker 2: Sixty and dating a forty year old and you're kind
Speaker 2: of both still active and like well and living, and
Speaker 2: but if you're like eighty dating a forty year old,
Speaker 2: it's just a very different life place.
Speaker 1: Well, I think what you were saying earlier is true.
Speaker 1: It's like, how do you define age gap? And at
Speaker 1: what age? I think there's this tremendous spectrum in this
Speaker 1: gray area, and then there's just that thing that you
Speaker 1: look at and you know it's not right, right, you know,
Speaker 1: I think we can. It's just that doesn't pass the
Speaker 1: smell to us. You're just like, Okay, that's it. I
Speaker 1: don't know what what it is, but that's it. Like again,
Speaker 1: Crystal Hefner and Hugh Hefner when she was twenty.
Speaker 3: One and year on the podcast.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and she was on the podcast and I'm like okay, like, yeah, no,
Speaker 1: that's not okay with that. That's not right. No, that's
Speaker 1: not right. And and who am I to decide? I
Speaker 1: don't know, just in my own world, that just doesn't
Speaker 1: fit because I don't see anybody mutually benefiting from that,
Speaker 1: and I think that's where.
Speaker 3: The power dynamic is where, Yeah, the power.
Speaker 1: Dynamics way off and the mutual Like in a relationship,
Speaker 1: you should mutually benefit off of each other, you should
Speaker 1: be a value add to each other's lives. I don't
Speaker 1: see that for a twenty one year old and an
Speaker 1: eighty year old, or even a twenty year old and
Speaker 1: a sixty five year old, I would go, I'd take
Speaker 1: twenty years off that, which is crazy to take sixty Yeah,
Speaker 1: you could take twenty years off that and still Okay,
Speaker 1: what you'd really have to prove? What is this dynamic
Speaker 1: that's healthy for everybody here?
Speaker 2: I think it's easier to play with a bigger age
Speaker 2: gap in the middle of our lives, like if you're thirties, forties.
Speaker 1: Fifty, or you and I are right now.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think, well, because you're both people have established
Speaker 2: a career a little bit, know who they are. They're
Speaker 2: not in the figuring out well maybe they haven't figured
Speaker 2: themselves out yet, but both people have probably been working
Speaker 2: hopefully figured out who they are a little bit and
Speaker 2: are both still like very active working, not you know,
Speaker 2: in the retired phase or the whatever when you get
Speaker 2: in those extremes like twenties and sixties and set like.
Speaker 1: Well back to Christian Cavalary, I mean, y'all aren't far
Speaker 1: off in age. That means you're dating a twenty four
Speaker 1: to twenty three year old. Okay, I can't see you.
Speaker 1: I can't see you. Like, what do you think when
Speaker 1: I say that to you? No, you're dating someone a
Speaker 1: year older than my son.
Speaker 3: Yeah, No, that certainly puts it in perspective.
Speaker 2: I when what's funny is we were just with the
Speaker 2: kids at and we took them out like and to
Speaker 2: dinner and stuff at their school a couple of weeks ago,
Speaker 2: and I really had a thought for a moment because
Speaker 2: I was talking to your daughter, our daughter Taylor, about dating,
Speaker 2: and I was like looking around because we were at
Speaker 2: this bar and looking at these boys, and I thought
Speaker 2: to myself, I don't mean this to sound me, but
Speaker 2: I thought to myself, how did I ever want to
Speaker 2: date a twenty year old boy?
Speaker 1: So much has changed in our world, and so much has.
Speaker 3: Not right, They're all still having the same drama.
Speaker 1: And these are the same conversations. It's the same bullsh
Speaker 1: It's the same drama that we all went through thirty
Speaker 1: years ago, forty years ago, twenty years ago, ten years ago.
Speaker 1: I don't care what technology you implement. And I will say,
Speaker 1: going back to reality television and The Bachelor, that's why
Speaker 1: the show worked because so much can change relationships, don't
Speaker 1: Our need for companionship and the mistakes we make achieving
Speaker 1: that do not change.
Speaker 3: And the obsessiveness.
Speaker 2: I mean, that's the thing when I talk to you, know,
Speaker 2: our kids and their friends right now, is that no
Speaker 2: matter how much new information they have, I mean they
Speaker 2: all now have We all now have cell phones with
Speaker 2: access to insane amounts of information on how to be
Speaker 2: in relationships, on our mental health, on all that, and
Speaker 2: they are all still making all the same relationship mistakes.
Speaker 3: That I made, that you made.
Speaker 2: They are all still falling obsessively in love, obsessing over crushes.
Speaker 2: Maybe it's just that our hormones are they're not adapting right.
Speaker 1: Your brand is barely formed and your hormones are raging.
Speaker 1: And you're at this weird life place too because you're
Speaker 1: on your own and you're trying to play grown up. Yeah,
Speaker 1: well you want to fall in love and you're trying
Speaker 1: to play grown up, but you're not yet because you're
Speaker 1: not really fully on your own. You're like, I'm my
Speaker 1: own woman, are you? Because you have your dad's credit card,
Speaker 1: you don't pay for your car, you don't pay for
Speaker 1: your cell phone, so you're independent, but you're not. So
Speaker 1: it's that wonderful time in life. It's part of the
Speaker 1: reason we go to college is to expand socially and
Speaker 1: kind of finish baking if you will.
Speaker 3: Yeah, well, and again I will say like experiences.
Speaker 2: Right, A twenty two year old who's been in college
Speaker 2: having their parents support them is going to be at
Speaker 2: a different maturity level than a twenty two year old
Speaker 2: who like didn't go to college and has been working
Speaker 2: on their own since they're eighteen and supporting themselves and
Speaker 2: paying their own bills.
Speaker 3: That's going to be different.
Speaker 2: Now, I did date someone who was younger than me
Speaker 2: right before you and I got together, right And.
Speaker 1: The last person you dated before me, yes was.
Speaker 2: Young, was younger than me, and actually had lied to
Speaker 2: me about how much younger than me he was. I
Speaker 2: thought he was only two or three years younger than me.
Speaker 2: He was actually like eight, seven or eight years younger
Speaker 2: than me. And I now listen.
Speaker 1: He was great, but you said you could kind of tell.
Speaker 3: As we kept dating.
Speaker 2: I was like, oh, he's a little more immature than
Speaker 2: I realized. Okay, And so then when he revealed that
Speaker 2: to me, I thought, oh, that makes sense. But so
Speaker 2: I broke up with him and he.
Speaker 3: Was We had this conversation.
Speaker 2: He's like, why, Like, we're really great together, and I
Speaker 2: said to him, you.
Speaker 3: Are really great.
Speaker 2: If our timing, our place had been different, this might
Speaker 2: be different. But I'm like, dude, like, I'm someone who's
Speaker 2: been divorced. Yeah, you've never even been engaged. We are
Speaker 2: in such different life places. We've had different experiences to
Speaker 2: this point, and our we were not aligned on that,
Speaker 2: and so like, did we have stuff in common?
Speaker 3: Sure, but we weren't going to work out.
Speaker 1: But to your point, the last person I dated before you,
Speaker 1: she was older than me, and that chemistry and that
Speaker 1: life place and that vision still wasn't there. So does
Speaker 1: it have to do with age or is it just
Speaker 1: like you said, the life place? And what I find
Speaker 1: interesting with Kristin Cavalary. I don't know Kristin and I
Speaker 1: don't know this young man she's dating, but she's very successful.
Speaker 1: I know this about her. I know her life on
Speaker 1: a public scale, she's very successful, she's been in the limelight.
Speaker 1: She's dealing with things on a pretty huge macro level
Speaker 1: in this world. Is this young boy a young man
Speaker 1: ready for that? You know?
Speaker 2: Is he?
Speaker 1: That's a lot? That's a lot to be shot out
Speaker 1: of a cannon in face? I mean, you know, does
Speaker 1: Kristin Cavalary want to get away from that? And that's
Speaker 1: why she's dating this young man? You know? Is he
Speaker 1: a departure from all that? Because that's a lot for
Speaker 1: a twenty four year old to step into social media,
Speaker 1: the limelight every you know, Look, the reason we're doing
Speaker 1: this topic is because she's catching heat for it. So
Speaker 1: that's what this young man would be facing. That's a
Speaker 1: lot for a twenty four year old.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Like, I think the takeaways are life place, maturity, power,
Speaker 2: dynamic to be aware of that both parties. I think
Speaker 2: my like, I'm not saying thirty seven and twenty four
Speaker 2: is the perfect age gap relationship. I don't think it
Speaker 2: is generally, but I do think it's unfair for women
Speaker 2: to get judged for it more than men.
Speaker 3: For women to be seen.
Speaker 2: I think what it is is women are like seen
Speaker 2: as sad for doing it, and men aren't.
Speaker 1: Men are like, yeah, oh cool, you know what I'm saying,
Speaker 1: which is commonplace, right. Yeah.
Speaker 2: I think that's the general reaction from people that people think, like,
Speaker 2: what's wrong with this woman and all that sitting dinner
Speaker 2: trying to stay young.
Speaker 1: We were sitting at a dinner last night with friends,
Speaker 1: and we were with three couples, us being one of
Speaker 1: the three couples. All of them had the same dynamic
Speaker 1: older husband, younger wife. No, you know, we know one
Speaker 1: about it an eyelash. And it's interesting if I said,
Speaker 1: Kristin Cavalary is forty years old, and you know she's
Speaker 1: dating a thirty seven year old or a thirty three
Speaker 1: year old. Sorry to do the math that thirteen year
Speaker 1: age gap. It's when you slide that gap that makes
Speaker 1: a difference. Right, If he's thirty and she's forty three.
Speaker 1: That feels different, doesn't it.
Speaker 3: Oh, it feels a little better.
Speaker 1: You mean, yeah, so there's a thirteen year age gap
Speaker 1: between Kristin and this young man. But if you slide
Speaker 1: that gap, like you said, oh, you know, Kristin Cavalary's
Speaker 1: you know, forty three and she's dating a thirty year
Speaker 1: old man.
Speaker 2: I'm telling you it feel it's for some reason we're
Speaker 2: talking about the feeling. It feels a little more. Okay,
Speaker 2: if people are in their thirties, forties, fifties.
Speaker 1: Because you assume they have more life experience, they've probably
Speaker 1: been professional in whatever profession they're in. They've become a
Speaker 1: little more mature.
Speaker 3: But I'm not going to green light share in Madonna's relationships.
Speaker 2: I think those just like I think gets off that
Speaker 2: al Pacino is like eighty one dating a thirty year old.
Speaker 1: I agree.
Speaker 2: I think I love Share, I love Madonna, and they
Speaker 2: are divas who have achieved things beyond what I will
Speaker 2: ever dream of achieving.
Speaker 3: But I think a forty year age gap is tough.
Speaker 3: I think that's it. I don't know about that.
Speaker 1: It's it's funny because it's how we need our Share
Speaker 1: and our Madonna to be. They are. They are icons
Speaker 1: in our world, and so I just think, like, Okay,
Speaker 1: you know, I'm going to give them a pass. I
Speaker 1: don't love it. It's not right. Same thing with you know,
Speaker 1: Paccino and de Niro, or you know, having babies when
Speaker 1: they're eighty five, with twenty year olds. Some women, I
Speaker 1: don't I'm not Yeah, I agree, I'm not going to
Speaker 1: sign off on it. Now. Where is that age gap?
Speaker 1: I don't know that. That's just not it though they
Speaker 1: don't have the past. Kristin Cavaleri. We're up in the air,
Speaker 1: but I think we're okay with this, so I'd be
Speaker 1: interested to see how this goes. We'll follow it, We'll
Speaker 1: see what she got from it, because I think that's
Speaker 1: the main thing and whatever you need from it in life.
Speaker 1: As long as everybody's happy, no one's getting hurt. Hey,
Speaker 1: do your thing, Elsie, keep doing your thing, and all
Speaker 1: of you keep doing your thing. And we appreciate you
Speaker 1: taking a little time out to join us, and we
Speaker 1: will talk to you again next time because we have
Speaker 1: a lot more to talk about. Thanks for listening. Follow
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Speaker 1: make sure to write us a review and leave us
Speaker 1: five stars. I'll talk to you next time.