WEBVTT - EYL #202 Jalen Rose on NIL Rule, Fab 5, His Charter School, & Broadcasting 0:00:00.400 --> 0:00:04.280 You just realized your business needed to hire someone yesterday. 0:00:04.800 --> 0:00:09.520 How can you find amazing candidates fast? Easy? Just use Indeed. 0:00:09.960 --> 0:00:12.680 Stop struggling to get your job posts seen on other 0:00:12.760 --> 0:00:16.439 job sites. With Indeed sponsored jobs, your post jumps to 0:00:16.480 --> 0:00:19.000 the top of the page for your relevant candidates, so 0:00:19.120 --> 0:00:22.119 you can reach the people you want faster. According to 0:00:22.160 --> 0:00:26.120 Indeed data, sponsored jobs posted directly on Indeed have forty 0:00:26.120 --> 0:00:30.040 five percent more applications than non sponsored jobs. Don't wait 0:00:30.080 --> 0:00:33.519 any longer. Speed up your hiring right now with Indeed, 0:00:33.960 --> 0:00:36.200 and listeners of this show will get a seventy five 0:00:36.280 --> 0:00:39.440 dollars sponsored job credit to get your jobs more visibility 0:00:39.600 --> 0:00:45.320 at indeed dot com slash pod Katz thirteen. Just go 0:00:45.360 --> 0:00:50.120 to Indeed dot com slash pod Katz thirteen right now 0:00:50.479 --> 0:00:53.040 and support our show by saying you heard about Indeed 0:00:53.080 --> 0:00:57.400 on this podcast. Terms and conditions apply. Hiring Indeed is 0:00:57.440 --> 0:00:58.080 all you need. 0:00:58.960 --> 0:01:01.800 So if the school has a sponsor, the player can't 0:01:01.800 --> 0:01:02.720 have that same sponsors. 0:01:02.920 --> 0:01:05.319 Boom it just people don't say that out loud. That's 0:01:05.319 --> 0:01:05.880 why I'm here. 0:01:06.600 --> 0:01:09.440 So a school like Michigan, I'm assuming. 0:01:09.080 --> 0:01:10.880 They have their their Nike schools. 0:01:10.880 --> 0:01:12.760 Now, you can't you can't be a quarterback and have 0:01:12.800 --> 0:01:15.160 a Nike sponsorship. Because Nike is already sponsored. 0:01:15.120 --> 0:01:18.039 You can be no, you can be the quarterback and 0:01:18.080 --> 0:01:22.000 wear Nike for free. You can't get paid, or you 0:01:22.040 --> 0:01:25.800 can't wear nothing else. If this was if nil was 0:01:25.840 --> 0:01:31.400 supposed to represent a true market value, that means when 0:01:31.400 --> 0:01:33.280 you go to a college, you should be able to 0:01:33.280 --> 0:01:37.679 wear whatever shoes that's paying you, not the shoe that 0:01:37.760 --> 0:01:39.200 has a contract with the school. 0:01:42.200 --> 0:01:48.440 My graduates from my school being forced back drop drop, Mike. 0:01:48.360 --> 0:02:03.200 Drop back drop. All right, all right, guys, welcome back 0:02:03.280 --> 0:02:06.800 EYL Detroit Edition. So this is something. 0:02:06.600 --> 0:02:08.680 What about I didn't have a proper introduction. 0:02:09.000 --> 0:02:10.920 I'm about to get into it. This is something that 0:02:10.960 --> 0:02:13.600 is very important to both of us. So before we 0:02:13.600 --> 0:02:16.680 was fans of anything, we was fans of sport and 0:02:16.760 --> 0:02:20.200 basketball specifically, so the Fab five for me, I played 0:02:20.240 --> 0:02:23.160 basketball my whole life, and I used to think I 0:02:23.160 --> 0:02:24.440 was going to go to the NBA. That was my 0:02:24.440 --> 0:02:27.359 original plan. So I don't think I even ever said 0:02:27.360 --> 0:02:31.120 this publicly. But the only time I really got emotional 0:02:31.120 --> 0:02:33.520 in sports is I think nineteen ninety two when Young 0:02:33.520 --> 0:02:35.760 Guys lost to Duke, and I remember I was, I was, 0:02:35.840 --> 0:02:39.400 I started crying because it was real emotional for me 0:02:39.800 --> 0:02:42.359 because it was kind of like a fight where you 0:02:42.440 --> 0:02:44.680 got the good Not to say Duke was bad guys, 0:02:44.680 --> 0:02:46.080 but it was just like, you know what I'm saying, 0:02:46.120 --> 0:02:49.239 like you got all your hopes and pride in one 0:02:49.360 --> 0:02:52.960 team and the other teams. I hated Duke for years, 0:02:53.400 --> 0:02:55.760 like twenty years off of that, and it was like 0:02:55.800 --> 0:02:58.960 with the Fab five reporter with the Fab five represented 0:02:59.040 --> 0:03:02.320 was bigger than basketball for me. It was just the culture, 0:03:02.680 --> 0:03:05.160 Like y'all had the uniforms, you had to swag baggy, 0:03:05.240 --> 0:03:09.480 the black speakers and the ball heads like that was 0:03:09.520 --> 0:03:11.919 like culture. And that's the first time I ever saw 0:03:11.919 --> 0:03:14.760 something like that happen. So it was just such a 0:03:14.800 --> 0:03:17.480 pride that y'all made it that far, and then when 0:03:17.520 --> 0:03:18.639 y'all lost, it was just. 0:03:19.400 --> 0:03:23.640 Thank you, appreciate the support. And the crazy thing about 0:03:23.680 --> 0:03:27.000 that is, obviously we stand on the shoulders of giants 0:03:27.800 --> 0:03:30.400 and there are people that I we looked up to 0:03:30.680 --> 0:03:34.960 as well. So in collegiate basketball, John Thompson and what 0:03:35.040 --> 0:03:39.840 he was doing with Georgetown just like a legendary figure 0:03:40.520 --> 0:03:44.160 and he stood for the athlete in the athlete's voice 0:03:44.200 --> 0:03:46.640 because he understood that a lot of us came from 0:03:46.680 --> 0:03:50.720 impoverished backgrounds and single parent homes. And I remember Big 0:03:50.800 --> 0:03:56.280 John was protesting Prop forty eight and the game would 0:03:56.360 --> 0:03:59.800 start and before they do the tip, Big John wild 0:03:59.800 --> 0:04:03.480 walk off, and a lot of people don't realize this, 0:04:04.160 --> 0:04:07.400 but he was in contact with us, and if that 0:04:07.440 --> 0:04:10.880 would have gone on like a few more games, there's 0:04:10.920 --> 0:04:13.000 a great chance that we would have walked off too. 0:04:14.360 --> 0:04:18.880 And so like that relationship was there, UNLV would tark. 0:04:19.839 --> 0:04:20.479 That's another team. 0:04:21.120 --> 0:04:25.240 Anderson Hunt went to Detroit Southwestern, that same school I 0:04:25.320 --> 0:04:28.000 went to it. So when I was in eighth grade 0:04:28.080 --> 0:04:30.640 going to ninth grade, he was twelfth grade to be 0:04:30.680 --> 0:04:34.240 a freshman at UNLV, and so we played in the 0:04:34.320 --> 0:04:38.800 Vegas International. I went to UNLV multiple summers. I remember 0:04:38.920 --> 0:04:43.160 being there on recruiting trips and meeting at O'Bannon and JR. 0:04:43.320 --> 0:04:47.000 Ryder because I feel like I was going to UNLV 0:04:47.560 --> 0:04:50.560 because at that time, you were picking a school that 0:04:50.960 --> 0:04:55.680 represented your culture or somebody that you know from your 0:04:55.720 --> 0:04:58.719 hometown went there to be successful. So I took a 0:04:58.800 --> 0:05:02.400 visit to Syracuse. Derek Coleman my old g It's my 0:05:02.480 --> 0:05:05.720 big brother Dunholme, so so y'all. People say where the 0:05:05.800 --> 0:05:09.520 shorts come from? Anderson Hunt was giving me shorts. Dereck 0:05:09.600 --> 0:05:12.359 Coleman was giving me shorts. Doug Smith was at Missouri, 0:05:12.720 --> 0:05:15.279 he was giving me shorts. So in the summer time, 0:05:15.360 --> 0:05:17.760 that's what it was. So by the time we got 0:05:17.800 --> 0:05:20.640 to college, were like, we're not wearing them those two 0:05:20.640 --> 0:05:23.720 small We know y'all got the We know y'all got 0:05:23.720 --> 0:05:26.359 the bread, y'all got the budget. And if y'all not 0:05:26.360 --> 0:05:28.599 gonna pay us, at least let us look the way 0:05:28.600 --> 0:05:31.560 we wanted to look. But the team we embodied the most, 0:05:32.120 --> 0:05:35.680 To be honest with y'all, Hurricanes football. 0:05:37.600 --> 0:05:43.080 You legendary. 0:05:43.480 --> 0:05:45.920 Let me tell you something. The way you felt when 0:05:45.920 --> 0:05:48.200 we played Duke it is how I felt when they 0:05:48.279 --> 0:05:52.240 played Notre Dame. And I remember the Saints versus Sinners 0:05:52.320 --> 0:05:56.360 game and it was crazy to watch how they were 0:05:56.400 --> 0:06:00.280 able to overcome being judged by the media is still 0:06:00.320 --> 0:06:03.479 be great at their sport. And so we really just 0:06:03.560 --> 0:06:06.520 tried to take the baton for what they were doing. 0:06:06.920 --> 0:06:08.599 And that's what made the Fab five. 0:06:08.960 --> 0:06:10.479 Were you the first one to say I'm going to 0:06:10.480 --> 0:06:12.520 Michigan because I mean, obviously the U and L I'm 0:06:12.600 --> 0:06:14.080 just thinking about that now, like, if you're on that 0:06:14.200 --> 0:06:17.640 UNIFL you andl team, you got Greg Anthony and that's 0:06:17.680 --> 0:06:20.880 a hunt Stacy Ogmy, Larry Johnson, and then. 0:06:21.360 --> 0:06:22.000 They left it. 0:06:22.040 --> 0:06:23.640 You could have you would have been the very next 0:06:23.680 --> 0:06:26.520 spetman class, correct, So like, are you the first one 0:06:26.560 --> 0:06:26.840 to say it? 0:06:26.880 --> 0:06:27.040 Now? 0:06:27.040 --> 0:06:28.960 I gotta stay home because that would have been That 0:06:29.000 --> 0:06:29.760 would have been crazy. 0:06:29.839 --> 0:06:34.880 So I love Tark Tark as the man and his 0:06:35.839 --> 0:06:38.440 associate head coach, Tim Gergovich, he coached in the league 0:06:38.480 --> 0:06:41.279 for a long time, like they were one of the 0:06:41.320 --> 0:06:45.960 first major programs that would take what were considered troubled 0:06:46.000 --> 0:06:50.400 black kids. And I talked about this in the five 0:06:50.520 --> 0:06:53.560 five documentary, and obviously I got a lot of blowback 0:06:53.839 --> 0:06:56.599 of speaking about how I felt as a young person. 0:06:57.160 --> 0:07:01.080 But colleges know who they recruit. They do their homework 0:07:01.120 --> 0:07:04.200 about you, and they know a player that lives on 0:07:04.240 --> 0:07:08.200 the cul de sac or that doesn't have heat in 0:07:08.240 --> 0:07:12.320 the house. They know the difference. And my frustration with 0:07:12.360 --> 0:07:15.040 schools like Duke, and that's what I said is they 0:07:15.040 --> 0:07:20.040 didn't recruit players like me, but UNLV did And so 0:07:20.360 --> 0:07:23.200 I loved Tart and I would have been a part 0:07:23.200 --> 0:07:30.000 of that next class, except Juwan signed first, and we 0:07:30.120 --> 0:07:33.600 had a game against the Soviets in nineteen ninety one, 0:07:33.680 --> 0:07:37.520 our senior year. Juwan was playing in Chicago, Chris and 0:07:37.560 --> 0:07:41.240 I were playing in Detroit. This is way before the 0:07:41.280 --> 0:07:45.400 influx of international players were in the league. This is 0:07:45.440 --> 0:07:47.240 around the time the Dream Team. I believe it was 0:07:47.240 --> 0:07:49.880 the same year. So the Soviets came here to play 0:07:49.960 --> 0:07:52.760 us in downtown Detroit. Juwan came to play on the team, 0:07:53.280 --> 0:07:56.400 and so we were friends already. We were in McDonald's 0:07:56.400 --> 0:08:02.520 All American Game. Juwan and committed, Jimmy committed. Ray committed 0:08:02.760 --> 0:08:05.520 in the early period. But see Webb and I didn't 0:08:05.520 --> 0:08:09.200 commit to after the season, and I was, I guess 0:08:09.240 --> 0:08:12.240 I was on my what Lamar Jackson is on now, 0:08:12.280 --> 0:08:14.000 Like I'll wait till the end of the season before 0:08:14.040 --> 0:08:16.560 I decide. I'm wait too, you know. And so I 0:08:16.560 --> 0:08:19.600 didn't decide until after the state championship. We want to 0:08:19.640 --> 0:08:24.000 state championship. And so I chose number five because I 0:08:24.040 --> 0:08:26.559 was the fifth member of the Fab five to sign. 0:08:26.960 --> 0:08:29.960 That wasn't my number in high school. I knew we 0:08:29.960 --> 0:08:32.960 were creating something special, and so that's why I chose 0:08:33.000 --> 0:08:33.679 to go to Michigan. 0:08:33.840 --> 0:08:38.360 It's little things that people don't even realize that it's 0:08:38.400 --> 0:08:40.160 bringing back so many memories for me. Like when you 0:08:40.160 --> 0:08:44.000 talk about shorts, shorts were real big in that era. 0:08:44.120 --> 0:08:46.080 And I'm from New York, so it was like old eyes. 0:08:47.320 --> 0:08:49.920 Remember that was it was a store in hallm Fact 0:08:50.040 --> 0:08:51.720 and it was like these shorts used to cost like 0:08:51.800 --> 0:08:55.800 sixty dollars. That was like wearing like Guccio Louivia tack 0:08:56.200 --> 0:08:59.360 and it was like we like shorts. I remember Arkansas 0:08:59.480 --> 0:09:01.840 raised they were too far. Their shorts was like down 0:09:01.840 --> 0:09:02.360 to the ankle. 0:09:02.440 --> 0:09:07.720 They were after us. 0:09:08.920 --> 0:09:10.960 They went too far. But it was like little things 0:09:11.000 --> 0:09:14.200 like that meant a lot. It sounds crazy, like shorts 0:09:14.240 --> 0:09:17.200 is really something, but like shorts, y'all guys, like it 0:09:17.240 --> 0:09:20.079 was fashion, Like it wasn't just basketball, it was actually fashion. 0:09:20.520 --> 0:09:23.640 It was it was It was fashion, but it was 0:09:23.720 --> 0:09:29.760 also unapologetic. See the one thing that being the the 0:09:30.080 --> 0:09:35.200 the descendants of slavery. As black people, we try to 0:09:35.320 --> 0:09:40.840 express ourselves in ways where we can't be denied. And 0:09:40.920 --> 0:09:44.120 so I can wear my hair the way I want 0:09:44.160 --> 0:09:47.040 to wear it. You may not like it. You may 0:09:47.080 --> 0:09:50.720 not even give me a job because I got an affro, 0:09:51.240 --> 0:09:56.520 I got braids, I have twists like that happens. The 0:09:56.559 --> 0:09:59.520 same thing happens with fashion. There are a lot of 0:09:59.600 --> 0:10:02.400 people that did not like the fact that we were 0:10:02.400 --> 0:10:06.800 wearing long shorts because we looked different. 0:10:07.240 --> 0:10:09.559 Like who were they? Like what? 0:10:09.920 --> 0:10:13.559 Because we were trying to be comfortable, we didn't realize 0:10:13.960 --> 0:10:16.960 the phenomenon that was gonna have. We were just like, 0:10:16.960 --> 0:10:20.040 we're not wearing those small shorts. I love Isaiah Thomas, 0:10:20.160 --> 0:10:21.880 just the o G. He is sponsor of j R. 0:10:22.000 --> 0:10:22.160 L A. 0:10:22.280 --> 0:10:25.920 But I'm not wearing no small shit. He had him 0:10:25.960 --> 0:10:29.640 and John stocked and had the smallest shorts of all time. 0:10:29.720 --> 0:10:32.800 That's like soft porn, like for real, for real, we're 0:10:32.800 --> 0:10:35.720 not doing that. But the other thing we ain't doing 0:10:36.200 --> 0:10:38.880 And I see y'all got fresh kicks on. We ain't 0:10:38.880 --> 0:10:42.640 wearing those those jock shoes y'all giving us. Now we're 0:10:42.679 --> 0:10:46.280 the Dion's where the bo Jackson's we rocking nose. 0:10:46.360 --> 0:10:48.360 Y'all made the basketball sneakers. 0:10:48.440 --> 0:10:51.880 They ain't came back four times back with boxes of shoes, 0:10:52.000 --> 0:10:54.000 but bags of shoes that dropped them on the floor. 0:10:54.320 --> 0:10:57.800 We're like, we ain't wearing them, don't even don't even 0:10:58.240 --> 0:11:01.760 where the Jordan's at. And that's how we ended up 0:11:01.800 --> 0:11:04.960 wearing the Barkleys and then ended up wearing the Hirachis 0:11:06.120 --> 0:11:09.440 and that became a fab five shoe that's been re 0:11:09.480 --> 0:11:14.200 released to this day, to this day. So if Nil existed, then, 0:11:14.320 --> 0:11:16.000 like I don't even have to make this up like 0:11:16.080 --> 0:11:19.600 some people have to project what might happen. Imagine if 0:11:19.640 --> 0:11:22.680 we had. And this is why I always acknowledge standing 0:11:22.720 --> 0:11:26.040 on the shoulders of giants, because people now that come 0:11:26.080 --> 0:11:29.800 behind us are smart enough to trademark stuff. Times are different. 0:11:29.840 --> 0:11:32.160 Now I say college, I ain't know my credit score, 0:11:33.320 --> 0:11:35.600 you know what I'm saying. Like, times were just different. 0:11:35.960 --> 0:11:37.720 And so imagine if we would have been able to 0:11:37.760 --> 0:11:41.720 trademark socks that were black. When we went to the mall, 0:11:41.720 --> 0:11:43.760 they didn't even have five pairs of black socks in 0:11:43.840 --> 0:11:44.520 the whole mall. 0:11:44.880 --> 0:11:45.400 That's crazy. 0:11:45.520 --> 0:11:47.400 So if we got a dollar for every time somebody 0:11:47.440 --> 0:11:49.640 bought black socks, me and Phield Knight to be neighbors. 0:11:50.559 --> 0:11:52.400 All I want in high school we played boways on 0:11:52.480 --> 0:11:54.320 say in high school team that's all I want is 0:11:54.360 --> 0:11:57.600 black socks. Correct, But it stems from y'all, Doug. We 0:11:57.600 --> 0:11:59.560 were in Texas. We went to the mall. They only 0:11:59.559 --> 0:11:59.880 had three. 0:12:00.360 --> 0:12:04.560 I wore dress socks against rice on top of white socks. 0:12:04.640 --> 0:12:06.400 I had on dress socks. 0:12:06.679 --> 0:12:08.320 It's so crazy because even now. 0:12:09.200 --> 0:12:11.480 I had so I have to wear my pop's dress. 0:12:11.040 --> 0:12:13.760 Exactly even now to this day. This summer I was 0:12:13.800 --> 0:12:15.760 in Philly. I went to Mitchell on Net store and 0:12:15.800 --> 0:12:17.560 I got the whole uniform. I got Chris Webb's jersey 0:12:17.600 --> 0:12:21.160 and I got the shorts. So that's twenty five years 0:12:21.200 --> 0:12:23.360 later correct, and it's still and I wore. I was 0:12:23.360 --> 0:12:25.000 in Dykement. I wore it to the game. They were like, Yo, 0:12:25.000 --> 0:12:26.000 where you get that jersey from? 0:12:26.000 --> 0:12:29.040 Like it's like and by the way, shout to Jim Jones, 0:12:29.040 --> 0:12:31.280 that's my brother. I ain't get up there to represent 0:12:31.360 --> 0:12:34.880 that dykeman. Shout to Dave East who just that's my 0:12:34.920 --> 0:12:37.920 brother who represents the Pacer jersey. Just shouted out Jaalen 0:12:37.960 --> 0:12:42.320 and Jacobe recently, like those those my guys. And it's 0:12:42.360 --> 0:12:46.760 crazy for me, as somebody that's almost fifty to see 0:12:46.760 --> 0:12:50.559 what you just said. That's crazy, like like Jalen is 0:12:50.600 --> 0:12:53.640 a common name, that is a fact you and not 0:12:53.840 --> 0:12:54.680 it's a common name. 0:12:54.800 --> 0:12:57.280 I say it. I feel like I didn't really hit 0:12:57.360 --> 0:13:00.480 to be people who name not said before nins and 0:13:00.520 --> 0:13:03.160 I had never heard anybody named Jalen before you, and 0:13:03.200 --> 0:13:05.880 now that both kind of you hear anybody named Jayleen. 0:13:05.880 --> 0:13:08.719 And it's turned into sex. Correct, Jalen's turned into a 0:13:08.800 --> 0:13:09.400 uniit sex name. 0:13:09.440 --> 0:13:12.280 And here's what I've said this to Shaq and to Denzel, 0:13:12.360 --> 0:13:14.599 who I love dearly, got both of their numbers in 0:13:14.679 --> 0:13:18.719 my phone. But they're like the greatest at what they've accomplished. 0:13:18.760 --> 0:13:22.040 Like there isn't a larger than life former athlete than 0:13:22.120 --> 0:13:25.920 Shack literally and physically. In Denzel, he's the gold at 0:13:25.920 --> 0:13:29.040 what he does. So people are gonna name their kids 0:13:29.040 --> 0:13:32.440 after them. But the one thing I noticed, they're all 0:13:32.480 --> 0:13:36.480 black boys or girl. They're all black men. Like the 0:13:36.559 --> 0:13:40.760 name Jalen is a unisex name, different racists, different shades, 0:13:40.840 --> 0:13:46.240 different creeds, boys and girls. And that literally started because 0:13:46.280 --> 0:13:48.960 of the popularity that we had as the Fab Five. 0:13:49.160 --> 0:13:51.080 It was on the list of my daughter's names. My 0:13:51.120 --> 0:13:53.800 mom's name starts with the J, and so Jalen was 0:13:53.800 --> 0:13:54.240 on the name. 0:13:54.360 --> 0:13:57.200 Yeah, that literally started because of the Fab Five. And 0:13:57.280 --> 0:14:00.960 so what we've been able to accomplish, there's the score 0:14:01.000 --> 0:14:02.480 of the game, and it's the game of life. I 0:14:02.520 --> 0:14:06.400 was in school three years. Like Tom Izzo could be 0:14:06.400 --> 0:14:09.319 at Michigan thirty years. I mean Tom Mizzem could be 0:14:09.320 --> 0:14:13.119 in Michigan State thirty years and he is a great coach. 0:14:13.280 --> 0:14:16.360 But win one championship in that thirty years and we'd 0:14:16.360 --> 0:14:21.040 be like, it's champion. I only get three years. I 0:14:21.080 --> 0:14:26.920 don't get thirty. And so what happens beyond the score 0:14:26.960 --> 0:14:28.600 of the game. There are a lot of teams that 0:14:28.680 --> 0:14:32.640 win championships, there are a lot of people that win accolades. 0:14:33.320 --> 0:14:35.880 But the thing that we won that can't be purchased 0:14:35.920 --> 0:14:42.400 is the culture. And so I appreciate having hip hop 0:14:42.840 --> 0:14:48.720 the inner city urban areas support us. Then so now 0:14:48.760 --> 0:14:52.240 when we became mainstream, I remember people was trying to 0:14:52.280 --> 0:14:55.280 hide us. It was like rap music. It's like, don't 0:14:55.280 --> 0:14:58.640 look at them, like we don't ball heads, black shoes, 0:14:58.720 --> 0:15:02.000 black side, we uh uh, get that out of here. 0:15:02.680 --> 0:15:05.400 And it was like when I saw what Muhammad Ali. 0:15:05.840 --> 0:15:09.480 Muhammad Ali's my favorite athlete of all time, and it 0:15:09.560 --> 0:15:13.280 broke my heart to see how he was ostracized from society. 0:15:13.920 --> 0:15:18.560 And then when he had really bad turets, I felt like, Oh, 0:15:18.560 --> 0:15:20.400 we're gonna embrace him now, let him hold the torch 0:15:20.400 --> 0:15:27.080 In Atlanta, I was like, what, it's late nineties, Like 0:15:28.080 --> 0:15:32.440 he's been alleged thirty years. It was ostracized by society, 0:15:32.960 --> 0:15:35.920 and so I'm just happy that we're each living and 0:15:35.960 --> 0:15:39.280 breathing now and get a chance to see the progression 0:15:39.360 --> 0:15:42.200 of what we've accomplished and now how it's played out 0:15:42.240 --> 0:15:42.840 in society. 0:15:42.920 --> 0:15:45.480 You talked about John Thompson Prop forty eight. Can you 0:15:45.520 --> 0:15:47.720 talk about that and how did that even come about? 0:15:47.720 --> 0:15:49.560 That he reached out to you guys and explain what 0:15:49.600 --> 0:15:50.480 Prop forty eight is. 0:15:50.480 --> 0:15:53.120 So when we were in high school, there was a 0:15:53.120 --> 0:15:55.680 Prop forty eight and a Prop forty two. Young people 0:15:55.760 --> 0:16:01.440 now take SAT They take ACT Achievements tests to determine 0:16:01.520 --> 0:16:05.760 where they are based on those test results. But there 0:16:05.840 --> 0:16:10.200 was also a secondary test that athletes were required to take. 0:16:10.840 --> 0:16:12.960 It was called the Prop forty eight test. And by 0:16:12.960 --> 0:16:16.280 the way, why we gotta take an extra test? You 0:16:16.320 --> 0:16:19.080 know what I'm saying, Try and play ball, like, why 0:16:19.080 --> 0:16:21.400 do I gotta take an extra test? That extra test 0:16:21.680 --> 0:16:27.000 was Prop forty eight, And so like SAT ACT or 0:16:27.080 --> 0:16:32.920 many state assessed tests, it wasn't something that we were 0:16:32.920 --> 0:16:36.440 introduced to or even taught in our schools, and it 0:16:36.560 --> 0:16:39.320 wasn't something that we necessarily had the resources to go 0:16:39.360 --> 0:16:42.680 out to get the support to actually navigate. So there 0:16:42.680 --> 0:16:46.160 were so many great athletes who were eligible in high school, 0:16:47.600 --> 0:16:51.160 signed letters of intent or we're in we're en route 0:16:51.200 --> 0:16:54.560 to sign letters of intent, but couldn't enroll in play 0:16:54.960 --> 0:16:58.000 unless you pass this test that was called the Prop 0:16:58.040 --> 0:17:03.280 forty eight. And John Thompson I appreciate so very much. 0:17:03.760 --> 0:17:07.760 He understood that it was culturally unsound how it was 0:17:07.800 --> 0:17:12.560 being administered. So he did what you hope most coaches 0:17:12.600 --> 0:17:15.120 would do, what most coaches didn't do, by the way, 0:17:15.200 --> 0:17:17.640 during the NIL. So let me just throw this out there. 0:17:18.160 --> 0:17:21.480 If coaches wanted players to get the nil, why ain't 0:17:21.480 --> 0:17:25.879 nobody stand on the table and nobody say nothing? Because 0:17:25.880 --> 0:17:29.240 they was getting paid, still getting paid, getting their shoe money, 0:17:29.440 --> 0:17:32.200 getting their appearance money, getting their radio money, getting their 0:17:32.200 --> 0:17:35.080 TV money, getting their camp money, getting their money from 0:17:35.119 --> 0:17:38.840 the school. Nobody stood on the table like John Thompson 0:17:38.920 --> 0:17:41.879 did for Prop forty eight, and he said, this is 0:17:42.000 --> 0:17:45.720 so unfair that I know the Big Ten, I know 0:17:45.800 --> 0:17:48.120 the Big East is popping, I know we just got 0:17:48.119 --> 0:17:51.160 the big shoe deal. I know everybody watching, but when 0:17:51.200 --> 0:17:55.479 these games start, I'm gonna walk off in protest. And 0:17:55.600 --> 0:18:00.840 as he did it, the snowball got bigger. And I 0:18:00.840 --> 0:18:04.399 don't maybe it was a gentleman named Greg Hardin, I believe, 0:18:04.520 --> 0:18:08.640 who was like an administer administrator at Michigan who kind 0:18:08.640 --> 0:18:11.879 of pulled my coat in particular to it, but he 0:18:12.080 --> 0:18:17.440 was like a bridge to Coach Thompson, like Coach Thompson, Hey, 0:18:17.440 --> 0:18:22.199 Coach Thompson, on my name, that's love. And we were 0:18:22.240 --> 0:18:27.360 talking about what happens if the rule doesn't change what 0:18:27.400 --> 0:18:32.359 you're willing to do. I'm want to go walk off too, 0:18:33.040 --> 0:18:36.199 wanted to do it was like uh snoop, what you 0:18:36.240 --> 0:18:38.000 want to do? What you're want to do? 0:18:38.040 --> 0:18:38.640 You know what I mean? 0:18:39.080 --> 0:18:43.280 Right right right, That's what it was. And so we 0:18:43.320 --> 0:18:46.879 was like we ready, we're gonna follow you, big fellow, 0:18:47.640 --> 0:18:50.639 and no different than when we rocked the Black Sox 0:18:51.240 --> 0:18:54.560 when people didn't see it coming. We were ready to 0:18:54.760 --> 0:18:57.800 fall in line behind Big John around a prop forty eight. 0:18:58.160 --> 0:19:01.159 So but I mean John Thompson obviously resident peace legendary 0:19:01.200 --> 0:19:03.439 coach at Georgetown, But you didn't go to Georgetown so 0:19:03.480 --> 0:19:06.040 I wanted the role that as this is happened in 0:19:06.240 --> 0:19:08.880 the Coach that you had Steve Fisher, who obviously gave 0:19:08.920 --> 0:19:12.240 y'all freedom to be with you are, what was that like. 0:19:13.040 --> 0:19:19.560 Coach Coach Frieder took a lot of disrespect by white 0:19:19.560 --> 0:19:23.680 America because a lot of people called him a Negro lover. 0:19:25.200 --> 0:19:28.200 And this was at a time when in the Big 0:19:28.240 --> 0:19:32.840 Ten you have personalities like Bobby Knight, Vienna and Gene 0:19:32.960 --> 0:19:37.400 Katie were on paper, it looks like they're disciplined in them, 0:19:37.560 --> 0:19:41.280 they keeping them in check, and it's like, hey, Fish, 0:19:41.200 --> 0:19:43.680 why are you letting Jane the rose where it's back 0:19:43.720 --> 0:19:47.760 jersey backwards? Like why is Chris Webber talking trash after 0:19:47.800 --> 0:19:52.800 a dunk? Put them negroes in check? And when they 0:19:52.840 --> 0:19:56.720 felt like he didn't discipline us in front of them, 0:19:57.440 --> 0:20:00.800 they got mad at him. It's something that happened in 0:20:00.880 --> 0:20:04.119 the Fab five doc that goes over a lot of 0:20:04.119 --> 0:20:06.159 people's head. We were getting off the bus and we 0:20:06.160 --> 0:20:08.680 were in Europe and we had on just like a 0:20:08.760 --> 0:20:11.240 jogging suit right now. I literally had on like a 0:20:11.240 --> 0:20:13.200 button up joging suit like I have on right now, 0:20:13.920 --> 0:20:16.960 and he was like Jalen tucked that jacket in. He 0:20:17.280 --> 0:20:21.679 forced me to tuck my jacket into my pants. You 0:20:21.720 --> 0:20:24.440 see what I mean. But he just didn't do it 0:20:25.119 --> 0:20:31.000 outwardly and wasn't as demonstrative or as mean as other 0:20:31.160 --> 0:20:34.800 coaches at the time, so people tried to take it 0:20:34.840 --> 0:20:38.760 as we were running over him, but we wasn't. That 0:20:38.880 --> 0:20:42.439 was it was so far from the truth, and he 0:20:42.600 --> 0:20:46.240 supported us. People didn't like that. We were in his 0:20:46.320 --> 0:20:49.640 office one time and I was just having a bad day, 0:20:49.760 --> 0:20:52.600 you know, I was frowning, and he's like, Jayden, what's wrong? 0:20:53.600 --> 0:20:58.840 Like my mother lights got cut off, That's what's wrong. 0:20:59.400 --> 0:21:01.679 Like I need to get my pailgram money, like I 0:21:01.720 --> 0:21:06.639 need an advance, I need to do something. And at 0:21:06.680 --> 0:21:08.680 the time I was I used to shoot dice all 0:21:08.680 --> 0:21:10.919 of the time. That was one of my hustles. I 0:21:11.000 --> 0:21:13.880 used to, you know, play a lot of cards in 0:21:13.920 --> 0:21:17.920 my mind, like I gotta go hustle more to help 0:21:18.280 --> 0:21:21.800 my mom and to help my situation. Because if you're 0:21:21.880 --> 0:21:24.959 poor at home in Detroit and now you got an 0:21:25.000 --> 0:21:28.840 apartment in in Arbor, that's two separate places that need 0:21:28.840 --> 0:21:31.520 the bills getet paid. Where we couldn't pay the bills 0:21:31.520 --> 0:21:36.680 at the first spot and he was understanding of that. 0:21:37.760 --> 0:21:43.199 He appreciated my honesty. He appreciated our relationship enough to 0:21:43.320 --> 0:21:48.359 whereas I I'm not from where you from, but I 0:21:48.400 --> 0:21:53.000 get where you coming from. And that's what Steve Fisher 0:21:53.040 --> 0:21:58.800 did for the five five overall. He uh, he could 0:21:58.800 --> 0:22:02.720 have started us from the beginning. And he'll tell you 0:22:02.760 --> 0:22:05.520 this story, well he's mentioned this story is that he 0:22:05.600 --> 0:22:07.640 had to get the courage to start us off because 0:22:07.640 --> 0:22:12.360 everybody was mad at him. And his father always told 0:22:12.400 --> 0:22:16.520 him about just play the best players, like don't forget 0:22:16.560 --> 0:22:21.159 the white media, forget whoever that like accuses you of, 0:22:21.760 --> 0:22:25.320 you know, being a Negro lover, so to speak. But 0:22:25.359 --> 0:22:29.320 his father died during the season and we was about 0:22:29.359 --> 0:22:33.480 to play Notre Dame right after his father died, and 0:22:33.520 --> 0:22:35.920 we walked in the locker room for the first time 0:22:36.000 --> 0:22:37.680