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Speaker 2: So if the school has a sponsor, the player can't
Speaker 2: have that same sponsors.
Speaker 3: Boom it just people don't say that out loud. That's
Speaker 3: why I'm here.
Speaker 4: So a school like Michigan, I'm assuming.
Speaker 3: They have their their Nike schools.
Speaker 2: Now, you can't you can't be a quarterback and have
Speaker 2: a Nike sponsorship. Because Nike is already sponsored.
Speaker 3: You can be no, you can be the quarterback and
Speaker 3: wear Nike for free. You can't get paid, or you
Speaker 3: can't wear nothing else. If this was if nil was
Speaker 3: supposed to represent a true market value, that means when
Speaker 3: you go to a college, you should be able to
Speaker 3: wear whatever shoes that's paying you, not the shoe that
Speaker 3: has a contract with the school.
Speaker 5: My graduates from my school being forced back drop drop, Mike.
Speaker 2: Drop back drop. All right, all right, guys, welcome back
Speaker 2: EYL Detroit Edition. So this is something.
Speaker 4: What about I didn't have a proper introduction.
Speaker 2: I'm about to get into it. This is something that
Speaker 2: is very important to both of us. So before we
Speaker 2: was fans of anything, we was fans of sport and
Speaker 2: basketball specifically, so the Fab five for me, I played
Speaker 2: basketball my whole life, and I used to think I
Speaker 2: was going to go to the NBA. That was my
Speaker 2: original plan. So I don't think I even ever said
Speaker 2: this publicly. But the only time I really got emotional
Speaker 2: in sports is I think nineteen ninety two when Young
Speaker 2: Guys lost to Duke, and I remember I was, I was,
Speaker 2: I started crying because it was real emotional for me
Speaker 2: because it was kind of like a fight where you
Speaker 2: got the good Not to say Duke was bad guys,
Speaker 2: but it was just like, you know what I'm saying,
Speaker 2: like you got all your hopes and pride in one
Speaker 2: team and the other teams. I hated Duke for years,
Speaker 2: like twenty years off of that, and it was like
Speaker 2: with the Fab five reporter with the Fab five represented
Speaker 2: was bigger than basketball for me. It was just the culture,
Speaker 2: Like y'all had the uniforms, you had to swag baggy,
Speaker 2: the black speakers and the ball heads like that was
Speaker 2: like culture. And that's the first time I ever saw
Speaker 2: something like that happen. So it was just such a
Speaker 2: pride that y'all made it that far, and then when
Speaker 2: y'all lost, it was just.
Speaker 3: Thank you, appreciate the support. And the crazy thing about
Speaker 3: that is, obviously we stand on the shoulders of giants
Speaker 3: and there are people that I we looked up to
Speaker 3: as well. So in collegiate basketball, John Thompson and what
Speaker 3: he was doing with Georgetown just like a legendary figure
Speaker 3: and he stood for the athlete in the athlete's voice
Speaker 3: because he understood that a lot of us came from
Speaker 3: impoverished backgrounds and single parent homes. And I remember Big
Speaker 3: John was protesting Prop forty eight and the game would
Speaker 3: start and before they do the tip, Big John wild
Speaker 3: walk off, and a lot of people don't realize this,
Speaker 3: but he was in contact with us, and if that
Speaker 3: would have gone on like a few more games, there's
Speaker 3: a great chance that we would have walked off too.
Speaker 3: And so like that relationship was there, UNLV would tark.
Speaker 2: That's another team.
Speaker 3: Anderson Hunt went to Detroit Southwestern, that same school I
Speaker 3: went to it. So when I was in eighth grade
Speaker 3: going to ninth grade, he was twelfth grade to be
Speaker 3: a freshman at UNLV, and so we played in the
Speaker 3: Vegas International. I went to UNLV multiple summers. I remember
Speaker 3: being there on recruiting trips and meeting at O'Bannon and JR.
Speaker 3: Ryder because I feel like I was going to UNLV
Speaker 3: because at that time, you were picking a school that
Speaker 3: represented your culture or somebody that you know from your
Speaker 3: hometown went there to be successful. So I took a
Speaker 3: visit to Syracuse. Derek Coleman my old g It's my
Speaker 3: big brother Dunholme, so so y'all. People say where the
Speaker 3: shorts come from? Anderson Hunt was giving me shorts. Dereck
Speaker 3: Coleman was giving me shorts. Doug Smith was at Missouri,
Speaker 3: he was giving me shorts. So in the summer time,
Speaker 3: that's what it was. So by the time we got
Speaker 3: to college, were like, we're not wearing them those two
Speaker 3: small We know y'all got the We know y'all got
Speaker 3: the bread, y'all got the budget. And if y'all not
Speaker 3: gonna pay us, at least let us look the way
Speaker 3: we wanted to look. But the team we embodied the most,
Speaker 3: To be honest with y'all, Hurricanes football.
Speaker 2: You legendary.
Speaker 3: Let me tell you something. The way you felt when
Speaker 3: we played Duke it is how I felt when they
Speaker 3: played Notre Dame. And I remember the Saints versus Sinners
Speaker 3: game and it was crazy to watch how they were
Speaker 3: able to overcome being judged by the media is still
Speaker 3: be great at their sport. And so we really just
Speaker 3: tried to take the baton for what they were doing.
Speaker 3: And that's what made the Fab five.
Speaker 6: Were you the first one to say I'm going to
Speaker 6: Michigan because I mean, obviously the U and L I'm
Speaker 6: just thinking about that now, like, if you're on that
Speaker 6: UNIFL you andl team, you got Greg Anthony and that's
Speaker 6: a hunt Stacy Ogmy, Larry Johnson, and then.
Speaker 4: They left it.
Speaker 6: You could have you would have been the very next
Speaker 6: spetman class, correct, So like, are you the first one
Speaker 6: to say it?
Speaker 3: Now?
Speaker 6: I gotta stay home because that would have been That
Speaker 6: would have been crazy.
Speaker 3: So I love Tark Tark as the man and his
Speaker 3: associate head coach, Tim Gergovich, he coached in the league
Speaker 3: for a long time, like they were one of the
Speaker 3: first major programs that would take what were considered troubled
Speaker 3: black kids. And I talked about this in the five
Speaker 3: five documentary, and obviously I got a lot of blowback
Speaker 3: of speaking about how I felt as a young person.
Speaker 3: But colleges know who they recruit. They do their homework
Speaker 3: about you, and they know a player that lives on
Speaker 3: the cul de sac or that doesn't have heat in
Speaker 3: the house. They know the difference. And my frustration with
Speaker 3: schools like Duke, and that's what I said is they
Speaker 3: didn't recruit players like me, but UNLV did And so
Speaker 3: I loved Tart and I would have been a part
Speaker 3: of that next class, except Juwan signed first, and we
Speaker 3: had a game against the Soviets in nineteen ninety one,
Speaker 3: our senior year. Juwan was playing in Chicago, Chris and
Speaker 3: I were playing in Detroit. This is way before the
Speaker 3: influx of international players were in the league. This is
Speaker 3: around the time the Dream Team. I believe it was
Speaker 3: the same year. So the Soviets came here to play
Speaker 3: us in downtown Detroit. Juwan came to play on the team,
Speaker 3: and so we were friends already. We were in McDonald's
Speaker 3: All American Game. Juwan and committed, Jimmy committed. Ray committed
Speaker 3: in the early period. But see Webb and I didn't
Speaker 3: commit to after the season, and I was, I guess
Speaker 3: I was on my what Lamar Jackson is on now,
Speaker 3: Like I'll wait till the end of the season before
Speaker 3: I decide. I'm wait too, you know. And so I
Speaker 3: didn't decide until after the state championship. We want to
Speaker 3: state championship. And so I chose number five because I
Speaker 3: was the fifth member of the Fab five to sign.
Speaker 3: That wasn't my number in high school. I knew we
Speaker 3: were creating something special, and so that's why I chose
Speaker 3: to go to Michigan.
Speaker 2: It's little things that people don't even realize that it's
Speaker 2: bringing back so many memories for me. Like when you
Speaker 2: talk about shorts, shorts were real big in that era.
Speaker 2: And I'm from New York, so it was like old eyes.
Speaker 2: Remember that was it was a store in hallm Fact
Speaker 2: and it was like these shorts used to cost like
Speaker 2: sixty dollars. That was like wearing like Guccio Louivia tack
Speaker 2: and it was like we like shorts. I remember Arkansas
Speaker 2: raised they were too far. Their shorts was like down
Speaker 2: to the ankle.
Speaker 3: They were after us.
Speaker 2: They went too far. But it was like little things
Speaker 2: like that meant a lot. It sounds crazy, like shorts
Speaker 2: is really something, but like shorts, y'all guys, like it
Speaker 2: was fashion, Like it wasn't just basketball, it was actually fashion.
Speaker 3: It was it was It was fashion, but it was
Speaker 3: also unapologetic. See the one thing that being the the
Speaker 3: the descendants of slavery. As black people, we try to
Speaker 3: express ourselves in ways where we can't be denied. And
Speaker 3: so I can wear my hair the way I want
Speaker 3: to wear it. You may not like it. You may
Speaker 3: not even give me a job because I got an affro,
Speaker 3: I got braids, I have twists like that happens. The
Speaker 3: same thing happens with fashion. There are a lot of
Speaker 3: people that did not like the fact that we were
Speaker 3: wearing long shorts because we looked different.
Speaker 2: Like who were they? Like what?
Speaker 3: Because we were trying to be comfortable, we didn't realize
Speaker 3: the phenomenon that was gonna have. We were just like,
Speaker 3: we're not wearing those small shorts. I love Isaiah Thomas,
Speaker 3: just the o G. He is sponsor of j R.
Speaker 1: L A.
Speaker 3: But I'm not wearing no small shit. He had him
Speaker 3: and John stocked and had the smallest shorts of all time.
Speaker 3: That's like soft porn, like for real, for real, we're
Speaker 3: not doing that. But the other thing we ain't doing
Speaker 3: And I see y'all got fresh kicks on. We ain't
Speaker 3: wearing those those jock shoes y'all giving us. Now we're
Speaker 3: the Dion's where the bo Jackson's we rocking nose.
Speaker 4: Y'all made the basketball sneakers.
Speaker 3: They ain't came back four times back with boxes of shoes,
Speaker 3: but bags of shoes that dropped them on the floor.
Speaker 3: We're like, we ain't wearing them, don't even don't even
Speaker 3: where the Jordan's at. And that's how we ended up
Speaker 3: wearing the Barkleys and then ended up wearing the Hirachis
Speaker 3: and that became a fab five shoe that's been re
Speaker 3: released to this day, to this day. So if Nil existed, then,
Speaker 3: like I don't even have to make this up like
Speaker 3: some people have to project what might happen. Imagine if
Speaker 3: we had. And this is why I always acknowledge standing
Speaker 3: on the shoulders of giants, because people now that come
Speaker 3: behind us are smart enough to trademark stuff. Times are different.
Speaker 3: Now I say college, I ain't know my credit score,
Speaker 3: you know what I'm saying. Like, times were just different.
Speaker 3: And so imagine if we would have been able to
Speaker 3: trademark socks that were black. When we went to the mall,
Speaker 3: they didn't even have five pairs of black socks in
Speaker 3: the whole mall.
Speaker 4: That's crazy.
Speaker 3: So if we got a dollar for every time somebody
Speaker 3: bought black socks, me and Phield Knight to be neighbors.
Speaker 6: All I want in high school we played boways on
Speaker 6: say in high school team that's all I want is
Speaker 6: black socks. Correct, But it stems from y'all, Doug. We
Speaker 6: were in Texas. We went to the mall. They only
Speaker 6: had three.
Speaker 3: I wore dress socks against rice on top of white socks.
Speaker 3: I had on dress socks.
Speaker 2: It's so crazy because even now.
Speaker 4: I had so I have to wear my pop's dress.
Speaker 2: Exactly even now to this day. This summer I was
Speaker 2: in Philly. I went to Mitchell on Net store and
Speaker 2: I got the whole uniform. I got Chris Webb's jersey
Speaker 2: and I got the shorts. So that's twenty five years
Speaker 2: later correct, and it's still and I wore. I was
Speaker 2: in Dykement. I wore it to the game. They were like, Yo,
Speaker 2: where you get that jersey from?
Speaker 3: Like it's like and by the way, shout to Jim Jones,
Speaker 3: that's my brother. I ain't get up there to represent
Speaker 3: that dykeman. Shout to Dave East who just that's my
Speaker 3: brother who represents the Pacer jersey. Just shouted out Jaalen
Speaker 3: and Jacobe recently, like those those my guys. And it's
Speaker 3: crazy for me, as somebody that's almost fifty to see
Speaker 3: what you just said. That's crazy, like like Jalen is
Speaker 3: a common name, that is a fact you and not
Speaker 3: it's a common name.
Speaker 2: I say it. I feel like I didn't really hit
Speaker 2: to be people who name not said before nins and
Speaker 2: I had never heard anybody named Jalen before you, and
Speaker 2: now that both kind of you hear anybody named Jayleen.
Speaker 4: And it's turned into sex. Correct, Jalen's turned into a
Speaker 4: uniit sex name.
Speaker 3: And here's what I've said this to Shaq and to Denzel,
Speaker 3: who I love dearly, got both of their numbers in
Speaker 3: my phone. But they're like the greatest at what they've accomplished.
Speaker 3: Like there isn't a larger than life former athlete than
Speaker 3: Shack literally and physically. In Denzel, he's the gold at
Speaker 3: what he does. So people are gonna name their kids
Speaker 3: after them. But the one thing I noticed, they're all
Speaker 3: black boys or girl. They're all black men. Like the
Speaker 3: name Jalen is a unisex name, different racists, different shades,
Speaker 3: different creeds, boys and girls. And that literally started because
Speaker 3: of the popularity that we had as the Fab Five.
Speaker 4: It was on the list of my daughter's names. My
Speaker 4: mom's name starts with the J, and so Jalen was
Speaker 4: on the name.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that literally started because of the Fab Five. And
Speaker 3: so what we've been able to accomplish, there's the score
Speaker 3: of the game, and it's the game of life. I
Speaker 3: was in school three years. Like Tom Izzo could be
Speaker 3: at Michigan thirty years. I mean Tom Mizzem could be
Speaker 3: in Michigan State thirty years and he is a great coach.
Speaker 3: But win one championship in that thirty years and we'd
Speaker 3: be like, it's champion. I only get three years. I
Speaker 3: don't get thirty. And so what happens beyond the score
Speaker 3: of the game. There are a lot of teams that
Speaker 3: win championships, there are a lot of people that win accolades.
Speaker 3: But the thing that we won that can't be purchased
Speaker 3: is the culture. And so I appreciate having hip hop
Speaker 3: the inner city urban areas support us. Then so now
Speaker 3: when we became mainstream, I remember people was trying to
Speaker 3: hide us. It was like rap music. It's like, don't
Speaker 3: look at them, like we don't ball heads, black shoes,
Speaker 3: black side, we uh uh, get that out of here.
Speaker 3: And it was like when I saw what Muhammad Ali.
Speaker 3: Muhammad Ali's my favorite athlete of all time, and it
Speaker 3: broke my heart to see how he was ostracized from society.
Speaker 3: And then when he had really bad turets, I felt like, Oh,
Speaker 3: we're gonna embrace him now, let him hold the torch
Speaker 3: In Atlanta, I was like, what, it's late nineties, Like
Speaker 3: he's been alleged thirty years. It was ostracized by society,
Speaker 3: and so I'm just happy that we're each living and
Speaker 3: breathing now and get a chance to see the progression
Speaker 3: of what we've accomplished and now how it's played out
Speaker 3: in society.
Speaker 2: You talked about John Thompson Prop forty eight. Can you
Speaker 2: talk about that and how did that even come about?
Speaker 2: That he reached out to you guys and explain what
Speaker 2: Prop forty eight is.
Speaker 3: So when we were in high school, there was a
Speaker 3: Prop forty eight and a Prop forty two. Young people
Speaker 3: now take SAT They take ACT Achievements tests to determine
Speaker 3: where they are based on those test results. But there
Speaker 3: was also a secondary test that athletes were required to take.
Speaker 3: It was called the Prop forty eight test. And by
Speaker 3: the way, why we gotta take an extra test? You
Speaker 3: know what I'm saying, Try and play ball, like, why
Speaker 3: do I gotta take an extra test? That extra test
Speaker 3: was Prop forty eight, And so like SAT ACT or
Speaker 3: many state assessed tests, it wasn't something that we were
Speaker 3: introduced to or even taught in our schools, and it
Speaker 3: wasn't something that we necessarily had the resources to go
Speaker 3: out to get the support to actually navigate. So there
Speaker 3: were so many great athletes who were eligible in high school,
Speaker 3: signed letters of intent or we're in we're en route
Speaker 3: to sign letters of intent, but couldn't enroll in play
Speaker 3: unless you pass this test that was called the Prop
Speaker 3: forty eight. And John Thompson I appreciate so very much.
Speaker 3: He understood that it was culturally unsound how it was
Speaker 3: being administered. So he did what you hope most coaches
Speaker 3: would do, what most coaches didn't do, by the way,
Speaker 3: during the NIL. So let me just throw this out there.
Speaker 3: If coaches wanted players to get the nil, why ain't
Speaker 3: nobody stand on the table and nobody say nothing? Because
Speaker 3: they was getting paid, still getting paid, getting their shoe money,
Speaker 3: getting their appearance money, getting their radio money, getting their
Speaker 3: TV money, getting their camp money, getting their money from
Speaker 3: the school. Nobody stood on the table like John Thompson
Speaker 3: did for Prop forty eight, and he said, this is
Speaker 3: so unfair that I know the Big Ten, I know
Speaker 3: the Big East is popping, I know we just got
Speaker 3: the big shoe deal. I know everybody watching, but when
Speaker 3: these games start, I'm gonna walk off in protest. And
Speaker 3: as he did it, the snowball got bigger. And I
Speaker 3: don't maybe it was a gentleman named Greg Hardin, I believe,
Speaker 3: who was like an administer administrator at Michigan who kind
Speaker 3: of pulled my coat in particular to it, but he
Speaker 3: was like a bridge to Coach Thompson, like Coach Thompson, Hey,
Speaker 3: Coach Thompson, on my name, that's love. And we were
Speaker 3: talking about what happens if the rule doesn't change what
Speaker 3: you're willing to do. I'm want to go walk off too,
Speaker 3: wanted to do it was like uh snoop, what you
Speaker 3: want to do? What you're want to do?
Speaker 2: You know what I mean?
Speaker 3: Right right right, That's what it was. And so we
Speaker 3: was like we ready, we're gonna follow you, big fellow,
Speaker 3: and no different than when we rocked the Black Sox
Speaker 3: when people didn't see it coming. We were ready to
Speaker 3: fall in line behind Big John around a prop forty eight.
Speaker 6: So but I mean John Thompson obviously resident peace legendary
Speaker 6: coach at Georgetown, But you didn't go to Georgetown so
Speaker 6: I wanted the role that as this is happened in
Speaker 6: the Coach that you had Steve Fisher, who obviously gave
Speaker 6: y'all freedom to be with you are, what was that like.
Speaker 3: Coach Coach Frieder took a lot of disrespect by white
Speaker 3: America because a lot of people called him a Negro lover.
Speaker 3: And this was at a time when in the Big
Speaker 3: Ten you have personalities like Bobby Knight, Vienna and Gene
Speaker 3: Katie were on paper, it looks like they're disciplined in them,
Speaker 3: they keeping them in check, and it's like, hey, Fish,
Speaker 3: why are you letting Jane the rose where it's back
Speaker 3: jersey backwards? Like why is Chris Webber talking trash after
Speaker 3: a dunk? Put them negroes in check? And when they
Speaker 3: felt like he didn't discipline us in front of them,
Speaker 3: they got mad at him. It's something that happened in
Speaker 3: the Fab five doc that goes over a lot of
Speaker 3: people's head. We were getting off the bus and we
Speaker 3: were in Europe and we had on just like a
Speaker 3: jogging suit right now. I literally had on like a
Speaker 3: button up joging suit like I have on right now,
Speaker 3: and he was like Jalen tucked that jacket in. He
Speaker 3: forced me to tuck my jacket into my pants. You
Speaker 3: see what I mean. But he just didn't do it
Speaker 3: outwardly and wasn't as demonstrative or as mean as other
Speaker 3: coaches at the time, so people tried to take it
Speaker 3: as we were running over him, but we wasn't. That
Speaker 3: was it was so far from the truth, and he
Speaker 3: supported us. People didn't like that. We were in his
Speaker 3: office one time and I was just having a bad day,
Speaker 3: you know, I was frowning, and he's like, Jayden, what's wrong?
Speaker 3: Like my mother lights got cut off, That's what's wrong.
Speaker 3: Like I need to get my pailgram money, like I
Speaker 3: need an advance, I need to do something. And at
Speaker 3: the time I was I used to shoot dice all
Speaker 3: of the time. That was one of my hustles. I
Speaker 3: used to, you know, play a lot of cards in
Speaker 3: my mind, like I gotta go hustle more to help
Speaker 3: my mom and to help my situation. Because if you're
Speaker 3: poor at home in Detroit and now you got an
Speaker 3: apartment in in Arbor, that's two separate places that need
Speaker 3: the bills getet paid. Where we couldn't pay the bills
Speaker 3: at the first spot and he was understanding of that.
Speaker 3: He appreciated my honesty. He appreciated our relationship enough to
Speaker 3: whereas I I'm not from where you from, but I
Speaker 3: get where you coming from. And that's what Steve Fisher
Speaker 3: did for the five five overall. He uh, he could
Speaker 3: have started us from the beginning. And he'll tell you
Speaker 3: this story, well he's mentioned this story is that he
Speaker 3: had to get the courage to start us off because
Speaker 3: everybody was mad at him. And his father always told
Speaker 3: him about just play the best players, like don't forget
Speaker 3: the white media, forget whoever that like accuses you of,
Speaker 3: you know, being a Negro lover, so to speak. But
Speaker 3: his father died during the season and we was about
Speaker 3: to play Notre Dame right after his father died, and
Speaker 3: we walked in the locker room for the first time
Speaker 3: we seen all of our names on the board.
Speaker 4: Was like, like we starting.
Speaker 3: It was on national TV. It was on NBC, and
Speaker 3: we was like, he was like this shit, better work
Speaker 3: because everybody watching this. Better work. And we score every point.
Speaker 3: We won the game, and that was a thank you
Speaker 3: to Fisher in particular.
Speaker 2: So let's talk about this. So you in il name
Speaker 2: image likeness You've referenced before that you didn't have money
Speaker 2: to eat at certain times, but you saw your jersey
Speaker 2: being sold while you was in college and how that,
Speaker 2: how that, you know, affected you psychologically. So this is
Speaker 2: a big deal because for a long time people have
Speaker 2: benefited from college athletics, from college athletes, and it hasn't
Speaker 2: been the athlete. And if they took money, then it
Speaker 2: was under the table and they got villainized and they
Speaker 2: got stripped of awards that they won and made it
Speaker 2: they was like criminals stuff like that. So now players
Speaker 2: can actually profit from their likeness. Some coaches, like Nick Saban,
Speaker 2: disagrees with some of the things that's happened. Some coaches
Speaker 2: are for it. What's your thoughts on in IL?
Speaker 3: The number one word is greed that I have. I'm
Speaker 3: really disappointed in how the NIL distribution has actually played out.
Speaker 4: Earns what's going on? As you gear a fall.
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Speaker 4: Terms and conditions apply.
Speaker 3: But I want to set the table with this acknowledgment.
Speaker 3: The sports that are predominantly black are the ones that
Speaker 3: once you get into them, the goal is for you
Speaker 3: to feed the system and help the system make as
Speaker 3: much money as possible before you profit. Basketball and football,
Speaker 3: predominantly black sports, are the main ones with restrictions after
Speaker 3: high school. For a while it had dress code, had
Speaker 3: salary cap, couldn't small weed, had a length of contracts
Speaker 3: like in baseball you can sign a ten year deal,
Speaker 3: and hockey you can sign a nine year deal. Canan
Speaker 3: basketball and tennis and golf. In NASCAR, you can turn
Speaker 3: pro after high school. Canan basketball and football. They're going
Speaker 3: to force us and this is a residue of slavery,
Speaker 3: That's what it is. They're going to force you to
Speaker 3: feed and pay the system as long as possible when
Speaker 3: you graduate from high school. There's so many players that
Speaker 3: shown you can go to the league and be successful.
Speaker 3: Kobe kg Jo, Darryl Dawkins, Spencer Haywood, the originator, Ron James,
Speaker 3: so team at So there's evidence, concrete evidence that Hall
Speaker 3: of Fame players can go from high school to the
Speaker 3: pros's twenty twenty two. Now, that's bang why they want
Speaker 3: you to feed the system. Same with the NFL. So
Speaker 3: what happens with the NIL is right now. JEEP is
Speaker 3: a sponsor of JRLA Puma is a sponsor, MGM is
Speaker 3: a sponsor. If I went to Michigan right now, they
Speaker 3: wouldn't let me have them a sponsors because it conflicts
Speaker 3: with what they already have. So now you're just getting
Speaker 3: like the residue.
Speaker 2: Explain that. Explain it. So if the school has a sponsor,
Speaker 2: the player can't have that same sponsor.
Speaker 3: Boom it just people don't say that out loud. That's
Speaker 3: why I'm here.
Speaker 4: So a school like Michigan, I'm assuming.
Speaker 3: They have their their Nike schools.
Speaker 2: Now you can't you can't be a quarterback and have
Speaker 2: a Nike sponsorship because Nikes already sponsored you.
Speaker 3: Can be No, you could be the quarterback and we're
Speaker 3: Nike for free. You can't get paid or you can't
Speaker 3: wear nothing else. So let's see if this is a
Speaker 3: If this was if nil was supposed to represent a
Speaker 3: true market value, that means when you go to a college,
Speaker 3: you should be able to wear whatever shoes that's paying you,
Speaker 3: not the shoe that has a contract with the school.
Speaker 6: Right so the Nike school, you can't have an ADIDA
Speaker 6: athlete or even like if it's school like Michigan, hypothetically
Speaker 6: for it, it's huge in Michigan, right, they're not doing
Speaker 6: anything with Chrysler.
Speaker 3: No. So say the school has a deal with a network,
Speaker 3: and I have a deal with a network, they're gonna
Speaker 3: try to make me get rid of my deal before
Speaker 3: I signed. There's some fine print in your letter of
Speaker 3: intent that basically acknowledges whatever things that happen with the school,
Speaker 3: whatever sponsors happen with the school, whatever sponsors happen with
Speaker 3: the program, you're required to support that. So that's why
Speaker 3: you're not seeing major collegiate athletes getting paid off of nil,
Speaker 3: because the schools ain't giving up their relationship. So the
Speaker 3: example we just used, say Michigan has a deal with Nike,
Speaker 3: and Nike's gonna pay them fifty million dollars a year
Speaker 3: or whatever, and you're trying to get the number one
Speaker 3: player in the car. You're trying to get Bronnie James
Speaker 3: to come there. Hypothetically, he ain't choosing no school for
Speaker 3: no money. I'm just using him as an example, and
Speaker 3: say the deal is fifty million dollars. Nike don't care
Speaker 3: if you give Brownie five. They don't care, but they
Speaker 3: gonna give you forty five, and you gonna give him five.
Speaker 3: The deal is still fifty. That's the difference. The school
Speaker 3: ain't gonna cut into their bread to make sure you
Speaker 3: get paid.
Speaker 4: So that's what's going on the that makes my life.
Speaker 3: That's why nobody getting paid.
Speaker 2: That's why nobody has like a Nike sponsorship. You only
Speaker 2: see no players with like Nike deals.
Speaker 3: You have not seen players get real deals.
Speaker 4: It's like random.
Speaker 2: So the quarterback, the quarterback at Alabama that had like
Speaker 2: he's not.
Speaker 6: Even the highest, but he's seven hundred and forty four thousand.
Speaker 6: But arch arch Man, it's like random company. So it'll
Speaker 6: be like a phone company that's that's local or something,
Speaker 6: heating and cooling exactly arch Man, he's getting three point
Speaker 6: four million.
Speaker 4: Say that name allowed exactly what we know that. I
Speaker 4: was gonna say his name?
Speaker 2: Okay, who's he getting three point four million from?
Speaker 4: They just announced it.
Speaker 2: He's a text the youngest brother.
Speaker 4: He's the nephew of paying man.
Speaker 2: My nephew. Yeah, he's a quarterback in Texas.
Speaker 6: He's going to be correct and say that name again,
Speaker 6: that last name for so both names.
Speaker 2: His name is Archie Man, right.
Speaker 3: Both exactly exactly. So they can send some emails and
Speaker 3: some texts, right, to make sure that he's gonna get
Speaker 3: taken care. That's one person.
Speaker 2: So you're not a fan of the nil.
Speaker 3: I'm a fan of it existing. I'm know it's not
Speaker 3: going to have the impact that it should because we institute.
Speaker 3: We had a shoe, there was a fab five shoe
Speaker 3: called the Hirachi that truly exists. That's a living, breathing thing.
Speaker 3: There's licensing for shorts, there's licensing for socks. Like if
Speaker 3: we would have been able to profit off of that,
Speaker 3: in particular players like Ray and Jimmy who didn't have
Speaker 3: long NBA careers, they would be millionaires off of that residuals. Correct,
Speaker 3: And so now you graduate the idea and again it's
Speaker 3: a it's it's almost a Jedi mind trick to somebody
Speaker 3: that lived the game and know the game. So the
Speaker 3: rest of the world celebrated and ill yes, Rah, you
Speaker 3: don't see nobody getting nothing.
Speaker 2: And it's crazy too because it's like I used to
Speaker 2: play D one for a couple of years. So when
Speaker 2: the game was out, what was it, two K to.
Speaker 3: The basketball game March Madness, I don't remember being on.
Speaker 2: That used to I never played video game, but he
Speaker 2: used to play. He used to play with my character,
Speaker 2: so I thought it was.
Speaker 4: What a real brother does.
Speaker 6: I almost well with this team. But even though he's
Speaker 6: rated seventies all of the shots and.
Speaker 2: There, I was a bad rating. But I just thought
Speaker 2: it was cool just to have a character in a
Speaker 2: video game. I wasn't. I'm in college, you know what
Speaker 2: I'm saying. I'm like, this is dope that I'm actually
Speaker 2: in a video game. And then when I believe it
Speaker 2: was ed O bandon right, they sued and then they
Speaker 2: want and then I actually got a check. I think
Speaker 2: I got a checked like three four thousand dollars later on,
Speaker 2: but long story short, I was part of a class
Speaker 2: action lawsuit. So then you start to realize later on,
Speaker 2: like then they was actually making a lot of money
Speaker 2: from your likeness. Correct, you know what I'm saying. You
Speaker 2: don't realize that when you're in it.
Speaker 4: And you know what did they do there?
Speaker 2: Adopt the game?
Speaker 4: There's no one boom because we ain't gonna pay you
Speaker 4: no more?
Speaker 3: Is it?
Speaker 4: Yeah?
Speaker 3: They stopped the game.
Speaker 2: There's no more game.
Speaker 6: There's no more Marchmadaws football, and there's no more may
Speaker 6: stop the game.
Speaker 3: It ain't like we're gonna keep the game and pay
Speaker 3: the players. It's like, we're gonna get rid of the
Speaker 3: game so we don't have to play the players. And
Speaker 3: like you, I remember being on that game, being naive,
Speaker 3: playing with myself and Da Da And imagine you got
Speaker 3: four thousand dollars, probably a decade or so after you
Speaker 3: left school. Just just just just think about those residuals.
Speaker 3: Just think about that. If they gave you four thousand dollars,
Speaker 3: that means they made forty million minimum.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 6: Let alone whoever the cover team was, because they didn't
Speaker 6: use to use the picture. It would be like whoever
Speaker 6: was the championship team? I remember when when mellowing them
Speaker 6: one and it was just like damn, they just got.
Speaker 3: His picture a d like that right in the body style.
Speaker 3: You know what I'm saying, got his breaks, got everything,
Speaker 3: but don't have his like we know who that is.
Speaker 3: And so again I think the n i L, the
Speaker 3: institution of the n i L, is a band aid.
Speaker 3: The true execution that's gonna be game changing is when
Speaker 3: the schools and the coaches, as you mentioned Nick Saban,
Speaker 3: are willing to share their sponsors that are locked in
Speaker 3: with the school. Because you can't come in with a competitor.
Speaker 3: If you got Nike, I can't wear Puma. If you
Speaker 3: got Forward, I can't rock Jeep, so I can't get
Speaker 3: the big bag.
Speaker 2: And that's funneling a lot of Adida's kids to Adida schools,
Speaker 2: a lot of Nike kids to Nike schools.
Speaker 3: Correct because and then what happens is that starts to
Speaker 3: funnel down a high school that's high school level. And
Speaker 3: why a lot of times does that shoe company sponsor
Speaker 3: that team because who's playing on it. I remember, I'll
Speaker 3: never forget playing against Jamal Mashburn and the Gauchos and them.
Speaker 2: I was like, it was.
Speaker 3: Like they was they was they was booted. I was like, yo,
Speaker 3: they fresh. That's because of the players that have come
Speaker 3: through the program, and so we're going to invest in
Speaker 3: that program. Is that program still exist?
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's what it's not. It's not the same level
Speaker 2: as it was before.
Speaker 4: It's been a little drove spell for New York correct professionals.
Speaker 3: That's like Saint Cecilia and Detroit the same thing when
Speaker 3: players were playing and it had the the the cachet,
Speaker 3: then we had the sponsors. When it doesn't necessarily have
Speaker 3: the same pro prospects and the same cachet. It's not
Speaker 3: existing anymore. Where did Mellow go to high school?
Speaker 4: St? Anthony's?
Speaker 3: He went?
Speaker 2: He went he was.
Speaker 3: No, he went to he went to the prep school.
Speaker 4: I'm sorry not saying so.
Speaker 3: I bring this up for a reason. Old Kill is
Speaker 3: one of the greatest schools to producing players of all time.
Speaker 3: My brother Stephen Jackson, Mellow, all of these guys. The
Speaker 3: one thing about like being an athlete and being in
Speaker 3: this sports, like we admire everybody. So I remember, like
Speaker 3: admyroing Baltimore when they had Reggie Wingate and Reggie Williams
Speaker 3: and Sam Cassell and on Muggsy Bowls, like we watched
Speaker 3: programs from other places, and I remember idolizing what ol
Speaker 3: Kill was doing. Like I was like, that's dope. It's
Speaker 3: a school that brings people from all over the world
Speaker 3: in theory becomes one of the greatest basketball teams in
Speaker 3: the country while still nurturing young men. I was like,
Speaker 3: that's dope. But when all of those top flight players leave,
Speaker 3: so the the sponsors and Okill probably don't even exist anymore.
Speaker 6: They're still playing the same level. I mean, they top
Speaker 6: ten nationally every they deserve to be because that's that
Speaker 6: program is dope.
Speaker 4: But a program like rights doesn't exist anymore.
Speaker 2: Right, shut the whole schoo down.
Speaker 3: And what that is is solely the sponsors and school,
Speaker 3: solely the sponsor saying, y'all got who on the team.
Speaker 2: Not gonna work?
Speaker 6: And then all of a sudden they're not there no more,
Speaker 6: thank you, let's pivot, let's find the next school.
Speaker 2: Correct, basically correct? So speaking of schools, all right, we're
Speaker 2: in your school right now. Congratulations person for me, thank you.
Speaker 4: This is impressive.
Speaker 2: We gotta take a short tour before we came here,
Speaker 2: but it's very impressive. The school that you've built Jalen
Speaker 2: Rose Academy Leadership Jalen Rose Leadership Academy, and it's ninth
Speaker 2: through twelfth grade in Detroit, Michigan. And it's a free
Speaker 2: charter school. Is that correct?
Speaker 3: Correct?
Speaker 2: Okay, So talk about that. What made you want to
Speaker 2: get into the business of education? And how long had
Speaker 2: the school been in existence?
Speaker 3: So that we're entering our twelfth school year. And the
Speaker 3: one thing that people underestimate about athletes, and I joke
Speaker 3: with my entertainment friends all of the time of this,
Speaker 3: it's athletes are required to be educated because you gotta
Speaker 3: stay eligible. And therefore, because you play sports, in theory,
Speaker 3: you're required to be a role model. Very early as
Speaker 3: an athlete, people come up to you taking pictures on
Speaker 3: your autograph, on your likeness, wanna, you know, spend time
Speaker 3: with you. And so, as somebody that was a former athlete,
Speaker 3: I was trying to think, how can I give back
Speaker 3: to the community in a meaningful way because I already
Speaker 3: had the Jayalen Rose Charitable Fund that influenced forty plus
Speaker 3: young people with scholarship dollars to college. But I felt
Speaker 3: like that just wasn't enough. It you c you can't
Speaker 3: achieve your goals necessarily anymore in America that you dreamed
Speaker 3: of right out of high school. But if you think
Speaker 3: about this, anybody that can hear my voice that is
Speaker 3: graduated from high school. When you leave high school, your
Speaker 3: high school don't do nothing for you anymore. They invite
Speaker 3: you to the ten year reunion. You get successful, they'll
Speaker 3: ask you to donate, but they don't support you. And
Speaker 3: so one of the things I wanted to do is
Speaker 3: I feel like the eight most important years of a
Speaker 3: young person's life are the ford that they're in high
Speaker 3: school or the Ford that they could be in college.
Speaker 3: Now you ask any adult where the dreams went awry?
Speaker 3: Is doing those puberty eight years You start making your
Speaker 3: own decisions, You start being exposed to drugs and sex
Speaker 3: and drinking and social media just j you get exposed
Speaker 3: to life, and you need a level of nurturing after
Speaker 3: high school. So it's important for me to champion a
Speaker 3: nine through sixteen model that when you graduate from high school,
Speaker 3: it's not just school. Throw you're hat in the air
Speaker 3: and see you in ten years. It's secondary education. So
Speaker 3: we're gonna support you community college, university, se trade school,
Speaker 3: military police, had me. Whatever you decide to do, we're
Speaker 3: gonna be there and continue to help nurture you. And
Speaker 3: so the nine through sixteen thing is one of the
Speaker 3: things I'm most proud of. The Other thing is that
Speaker 3: we go for eleven months in the United States of America.
Speaker 3: You get our school in June, you go back in September.
Speaker 3: The people that we owe billions of dollars to, or
Speaker 3: trillions of dollars to, like a China, for example, they
Speaker 3: require their young people to go to school six and
Speaker 3: there's sometimes seven days a week. So we can't truly
Speaker 3: compete in the global economy. So how can I take
Speaker 3: these young people who are not reading or doing math
Speaker 3: at the ninth grade level, but still put them in
Speaker 3: position to compete for the same career, the same job,
Speaker 3: the same collegiate classroom as their suburban counterparts. And so
Speaker 3: that's why I wanted to champion a nine through sixteen model.
Speaker 3: If I had a blank check, I would ultimately see
Speaker 3: I would I would hope that the United States would
Speaker 3: adopt a model of a K through sixteen to where
Speaker 3: you're nurturing a young person the entire way through. And
Speaker 3: that's in the classroom, that's in trades, that's for jobs,
Speaker 3: that's for social and emotional support, that's when you're dealing
Speaker 3: with depression, you're dealing with anxiety. We got the counselors
Speaker 3: here like it's a lifestyle, and that's what I wanted
Speaker 3: to create here, but I didn't have the bandwidth to
Speaker 3: do that just being one person. Look at the beginning
Speaker 3: pictures of when we started the school, ain't no sponsor
Speaker 3: standing behind me, not one, Like it's literally me and
Speaker 3: Dave Bing, who was the mirror at the time, cutting
Speaker 3: the ribbon. And so over the years we started to
Speaker 3: make our outcomes happen. Sponsors and supporters started to come
Speaker 3: on board. So for me, it was an opportunity to
Speaker 3: start a school. I always was passionate about education, being
Speaker 3: a member of the Fab five and being the McDonald's
Speaker 3: all the maor people. Hey, headline is how many points
Speaker 3: I scored, how many games we want? But people underestimated
Speaker 3: the fact that I was an honor roll student in
Speaker 3: high school. I was on the dean's list at Michigan. Like,
Speaker 3: education was always important to me. So for me, it
Speaker 3: was just an opportunity to help as many young people
Speaker 3: be educated by a quality school in their community and
Speaker 3: put them in position to chase their goals.
Speaker 2: So what was the process?
Speaker 4: Like I noticed is eleven year journey with twelve year journey.
Speaker 6: Now we'll have to go into the new school year
Speaker 6: a work doing the inner workings of education.
Speaker 4: Like we've all been.
Speaker 6: Students and I was, you know, a teacher, and when
Speaker 6: you go on the other side, you realize, wait, this
Speaker 6: is there's a lot of stuff that you don't know.
Speaker 6: So getting the funding, figure out curriculum, making sure that
Speaker 6: the act graduation rates, attendance rates, correct truancy, all these
Speaker 6: things like, what was like that learning curfew, Like.
Speaker 3: It's a it's a it's refreshing for me to see
Speaker 3: how young people come in because I was this young
Speaker 3: person too at eighth grade. You don't know if you
Speaker 3: want to be fly, you don't know if you want
Speaker 3: to be smart, you don't know if you want to
Speaker 3: sit in front of the class, you know, if you
Speaker 3: want to be cool, Like you're still trying to figure
Speaker 3: it out. And the number one thing that I realized
Speaker 3: that these young people needed was physical support and energy
Speaker 3: and time and money. And so the quality of your
Speaker 3: education in the United States of America is defined by
Speaker 3: your zip code. There's reason why people with means move
Speaker 3: to a district where there's good schools. And so there's
Speaker 3: levels to this. There's the private school parent, there's the
Speaker 3: suburban public school parent, there's the inner city private school parent,
Speaker 3: and then there's the public school. So what ends up
Speaker 3: happening is you get residue from all of that and
Speaker 3: now you have school. And so there are high performance
Speaker 3: schools like in Detroit. If you say, hey, what's the
Speaker 3: most high performing schools in Detroit the last thirty years,
Speaker 3: everybody gonna say cast Cast Technical, right, and it has been,
Speaker 3: but why is it only one? It's only one? King
Speaker 3: started to come along, Renaissance popped up there for a while.
Speaker 3: But what they do, and this ain't no shots or shade,
Speaker 3: is just a reality. They test you in before ninth
Speaker 3: grade and they'll test you out before tenth grade. And
Speaker 3: so what we do, being open enrollment, tuition free public charter,
Speaker 3: is we're gonna take you as you are, and we're
Speaker 3: gonna nurture you over this eight year period to put
Speaker 3: you in a position to take care of yourself, educate yourself,
Speaker 3: and be in a position to take care of those
Speaker 3: you love. And so there have been a lot of
Speaker 3: challenges in trying to fundraise and trying to expand the facility.
Speaker 3: There's been a lot of frustration by me that I
Speaker 3: need to stay encouraged. There's so many times I think,
Speaker 3: like man Michigan been fundraising for since the eighteen hundreds,
Speaker 3: the people just turn around to give them a hundred
Speaker 3: million dollars like it ain't nothing like can you give
Speaker 3: them ninety eight and give us two? You know what
Speaker 3: I'm saying. But then what I learned is some people
Speaker 3: and they not judging how you give. Like I had
Speaker 3: to learn to not judge people who don't give back
Speaker 3: to the community, who don't give their time, who do
Speaker 3: give for prestige. And I had to realize, we don't
Speaker 3: have a stadium one hundred and twenty five thousand fans
Speaker 3: that's going to bring you to half, to bring you
Speaker 3: to midfield and give you a standing ovation. Or we
Speaker 3: don't have like the shiny building that you could put
Speaker 3: your name on and then when your college plays on TV,
Speaker 3: they're like, yo, that's just such and such and such
Speaker 3: and such building. And so this is the actual charity
Speaker 3: that makes it to the hood. And even though I
Speaker 3: got to knock on doors, you know, a thousand times
Speaker 3: to probably get one donor, that's been the biggest hurdle
Speaker 3: in the biggest challenge to try to make sure they
Speaker 3: have the access they need to carry out the goals.
Speaker 2: So who is it funded by the state or is
Speaker 2: it funded by private.
Speaker 3: See here's this is like the nil so a private
Speaker 3: So a charter school gets zero state funding for its facility. Right,
Speaker 3: what's the most important thing in your life? Your house
Speaker 3: and your car. So we ain't getting no money for
Speaker 3: our facility. That means we need an HVAC system right now.
Speaker 3: It costs one point five million dollars, y'all doing this
Speaker 3: interview in this room because this is the new wing
Speaker 3: that we expanded six or seven years ago. We ain't
Speaker 3: doing it in the old wing because they no air conditioned.
Speaker 3: We ain't doing it in the old wing because we
Speaker 3: got an elementary school gym that I can jump up
Speaker 3: and pull the rim down now because I didn't realize
Speaker 3: it was hanging. I just got here today. And so
Speaker 3: that to me has been like not only the biggest challenge,
Speaker 3: but like that's gonna be the biggest game changer also,
Speaker 3: like I'm gonna turn these limits into lemonade. And the
Speaker 3: donors that we have and the sponsors that we have,
Speaker 3: I'm extremely grateful for them. But when I'm able to
Speaker 3: expand this facility where we don't have rotating teachers, I
Speaker 3: want to create a holistic space for meditation, prayer, counseling,
Speaker 3: have a gym where our team can play, where we
Speaker 3: can host high school tournaments and district regionals and stuff
Speaker 3: like that. We can host colleges maybe when they come
Speaker 3: playing practice, pro teams when they come playing practice, Like
Speaker 3: that's really the next phase of what we're trying to do,
Speaker 3: but it is extremely challenging raising money for inner city
Speaker 3: young people.
Speaker 6: I know you said you weren't disappointed in people not
Speaker 6: giving back on the surface, right, But Isaiah is one
Speaker 6: of the people who gave back, and it's a few
Speaker 6: other sponsors. But obviously as a celebrity, it feels like
Speaker 6: this should be like something that people should get behind. Well,
Speaker 6: I mean this has obviously been a valuable lesson. So
Speaker 6: how do you, I mean, how do you differentiate? Like
Speaker 6: I thought he was cool, you should support my vision.
Speaker 6: People don't. Now It's like, well, how do I view
Speaker 6: you now?
Speaker 3: Would you just saying right there, Paim like I stop
Speaker 3: liking people because I feel like if the person if
Speaker 3: you've ever heard the word Detroit, if you've ever been
Speaker 3: in Michigan, if you've ever gone to college here, if
Speaker 3: you've ever came to Detroit Metropolitan Airport, I told you
Speaker 3: about the school or you heard about the school. So
Speaker 3: if you see our donor wall, if you see our
Speaker 3: golf outing and you're like, wait a minute, I just saw.
Speaker 4: Joe Ernest, what's up.
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Speaker 3: Bron, don't w a Detroy hat o ay from the
Speaker 3: d I just saw her talking about what updot What
Speaker 3: happens is I had to step back and be like yo,
Speaker 3: some people ain't willing to donate their time and their
Speaker 3: money when there isn't Press Stiege involved. And that was
Speaker 3: a hard dog. I'm trying to tell you that was
Speaker 3: a hard step because if I showed you my phone
Speaker 3: and the people that I texts that either ignore me
Speaker 3: or don't donate and claim to put on for the city.
Speaker 3: This ain't like the first year I've been doing this,
Speaker 3: you know what I'm saying. I been doing this twelve years.
Speaker 3: So at some point you've got to fall through.
Speaker 2: It, you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 3: Graduation call. I picked up the phone. Big Sean, he there,
Speaker 3: Ti Grizzley, he there, Godfather inside the Baby, he there,
Speaker 3: Platinum Equity Pistols they there, Calvin Johnson, Megatron, he there.
Speaker 3: So I learned to then celebrate and embrace the people
Speaker 3: who do support, not clown expose or be mad at
Speaker 3: the people who don't. And that's hard. That's that's that's
Speaker 3: that's so challenging because usually the person that's the founder
Speaker 3: of the school ain't alive or it's named after somebody else.
Speaker 3: Like I'm a living, breathing human being interacting with everybody.
Speaker 3: So it's like, like, I know though, like and so
Speaker 3: that that was challenging. But as people start talking about
Speaker 3: charity and giving back, I noticed many public figures don't
Speaker 3: have a foundation. A lot of people grow up somewhere
Speaker 3: and they don't have their driver's license still where they
Speaker 3: grew up. I do. I can flip it to Florida
Speaker 3: right now and save money on my taxes. I ain't
Speaker 3: doing it.
Speaker 6: Yeah, talk about that though, right, Like obviously you went
Speaker 6: to school here in this in the state of Michigan.
Speaker 6: He played for at this right, drafted by the Nuggets
Speaker 6: YEP ninety.
Speaker 4: Four, played for the Bulls. I did, played for Indiana,
Speaker 4: I did Toronto, was.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yes, indeed, y'all pay good and did Phoenix Knicks and.
Speaker 6: I was Gonnay with the Knicks during all that time.
Speaker 4: You still lived there, Yes, so why it's so important
Speaker 4: to be I mean, this is your neighbor.
Speaker 3: I ain't never leaving. I can walk to the house
Speaker 3: I grew up in right now. And my grandmother, who
Speaker 3: I lost a year or so ago, she was one
Speaker 3: hundred and three and she lived all of those years
Speaker 3: in the city, and she made sure, along with my
Speaker 3: mother who I lost last February, they made sure that
Speaker 3: you're gonna put on for the city, You're gonna give
Speaker 3: back to the city, and real Detroit is stay in
Speaker 3: the city. I could take y'all, we could jump in
Speaker 3: the car right now and go drive and I could
Speaker 3: just pull up on people and be like, YO, would
Speaker 3: you rather live in Detroit or La Detroit? I ain't
Speaker 3: never leaving.
Speaker 6: This episode is sponsored by FX's Atlanta. FX's Atlanta returns
Speaker 6: for its final season. Earn, Alfred, Darius, and Van are
Speaker 6: back in their hometown, but the question is has Atlanta
Speaker 6: changed or have they FX's Atlanta the final season all
Speaker 6: new Thursdays on FX stream on Hulu.
Speaker 3: You want to live, you want to live in? You
Speaker 3: want to go live in Hawaii? Or Detroit? Detroit? I
Speaker 3: ain't never leaving? What did I say in a fab
Speaker 3: five Dot who want to go to Europe. It ain't Detroit.
Speaker 3: That's what I said. This was thirty years ago. You
Speaker 3: see what I mean. This was thirty years ago. And
Speaker 3: the reason why we feel so passionate about it is
Speaker 3: not only what it's done for us, but we know
Speaker 3: it needs help. We know it scarred. We know that
Speaker 3: if you leave a time that had one point five
Speaker 3: million people that now has six hundred thousand people, you're
Speaker 3: going to continue to diminish our hometown. So it's important
Speaker 3: for people who have the opportunity to migrate to still
Speaker 3: consider making Detroitor Michigan their home to do that reinvestment.
Speaker 3: So that's why it was important to me to never believe.
Speaker 2: Let's talk about fundraising from a business standpoint, because the
Speaker 2: business show and that's a business within itself. So what
Speaker 2: lessons did you learn as far as fundraising and what
Speaker 2: is some techniques that you know you use to improve
Speaker 2: your your fundraising over the over the course of time.
Speaker 3: The first thing I learned is that people don't donate
Speaker 3: for pity. They donate for things that they feel like
Speaker 3: make them happy. It's like it's like like you see
Speaker 3: those commercials all of the time that they used to
Speaker 3: have where they show kids with flyers flying around their
Speaker 3: faces and stuff like that to try to make it
Speaker 3: create an imagery of Oh, you got to reach in
Speaker 3: your pockets and help them right now. Well, that, in theory,
Speaker 3: is the reason why that stopped. You notice that campaign
Speaker 3: doesn't run anymore because people give, like I mentioned, for
Speaker 3: prestige and validity. Majority of our sponsors have never been here.
Speaker 3: The thing that I realize that they're investing in me,
Speaker 3: in my vision, and they feel like like the parents feel,
Speaker 3: y'all come here one day during dismissal or if y'all
Speaker 3: come here one day when the young scholars are coming
Speaker 3: to school, y'all are hit of parents dropping them off
Speaker 3: to you, Jalen, we know you got them. It's the
Speaker 3: same thing with fundraising. I'm donating to you because I
Speaker 3: know that you're so committed in this. I've seen you
Speaker 3: spend your time, your energy, your money. So I'm in
Speaker 3: theory donating to you because I know you're going to
Speaker 3: do the right thing for them. And the other thing
Speaker 3: I learned is that a lot of times trying to
Speaker 3: ask people to donate for something can be challenging if
Speaker 3: they're not from Detroit they don't live in Detroit and
Speaker 3: they don't have kids to go to school in Detroit.
Speaker 3: So in other words, you have a school that's ninety
Speaker 3: nine percent black, but a donor wall of businesses and
Speaker 3: companies and people that are probably ninety five percent white.
Speaker 3: So that dynamic is one that you navigate and you're
Speaker 3: really grateful to those that support and now my goal
Speaker 3: is just to put some more zeros on them donations.
Speaker 6: Yeah, So even that, like the fundraising process, people, I'm
Speaker 6: sure there's people are like, what do you need to
Speaker 6: raise funds for?
Speaker 4: Right, Like you're the same reason why Michigan need to
Speaker 4: raise money.
Speaker 3: So like Michigan been raising money since the eighteen hundreds.
Speaker 6: And so like they can see the tangible things like, oh,
Speaker 6: we built this new wing, so like can you talk.
Speaker 3: About they feel like we got enough?
Speaker 4: Exactly.
Speaker 3: That's because they feel like y'all got y'all got heat,
Speaker 3: right right, y'all got a building.
Speaker 6: So that's why I'm trying to say that this a
Speaker 6: coss associated with actually running a school, Like there's a
Speaker 6: lot that goes into it. Can you talk about that?
Speaker 6: Because obviously you said the HVAC that's a real issue.
Speaker 3: Correct, And in Detroit. Because here's the thing. A property
Speaker 3: like this, if we were in Chicago or New York,
Speaker 3: we could take over a facility to be worth one
Speaker 3: point eight million dollars ten years ago in the same building,
Speaker 3: but now be worth three million. Well, in Detroit, that's
Speaker 3: say one point eight billion dollar building. Now it's worth
Speaker 3: one point three appreciation. Man, you see what I'm saying.
Speaker 3: So that dynamic affects everything that you do. It affects
Speaker 3: the enrollment is just not as many people. It affects
Speaker 3: the teachers, the talent pool just isn't as plentiful, And
Speaker 3: it affects the donors because it's not as many people
Speaker 3: that live here or care about what's happening here. So
Speaker 3: what happens is that becomes a trickle down effect for
Speaker 3: everything that we're trying to get accomplished. And the idioticy
Speaker 3: of some people makes them think, oh, they see me
Speaker 3: like I ain't a billionaire, you know what I'm saying,
Speaker 3: Like you heard Chris Rock, Like Shaq Rich the person
Speaker 3: that writes shack check is wealthy, you see what I mean.
Speaker 3: But what happens is sometimes people see us, oh, y'all
Speaker 3: got enough good, we got running water, you good. You
Speaker 3: know what I mean, We gave you enough. And that's
Speaker 3: where I have to come in and make sure that
Speaker 3: our fist fight as much as possible for all of
Speaker 3: the support that our scholars are gonna need to chase
Speaker 3: their goals. You never have enough money, never have enough money.
Speaker 3: And I love y'all shirt's assets of aliabilities because one
Speaker 3: of the biggest misnomers about successful people is that we
Speaker 3: can both walk past the same thousand dollars pile they
Speaker 3: gonna fight you for it. See a lot of time,
Speaker 3: the mentality is the broke person thinks the rich person
Speaker 3: ain't gonna fight them for that thousand dollars. But the
Speaker 3: reason why they rich is but because they keep stacking
Speaker 3: those thousands of dollars. Like now, we don't value change.
Speaker 3: So many times in the day I swear to you,
Speaker 3: I walk past pick up this quarter, it's good luck,
Speaker 3: it's good luck. And then before you know, I looked
Speaker 3: down the email like, oh, uesp don't want to do
Speaker 3: what cool? In my mind? That creates a domino for
Speaker 3: opportunity for good luck. And so that's what I'm hoping
Speaker 3: to get accomplished it.
Speaker 2: Speaking of ESPN, so we recently chopped it up with
Speaker 2: AB shot out to him no doubt, and he said
Speaker 2: something that was actually pretty profound where he said that
Speaker 2: most athletes they struggle when they're done playing because the
Speaker 2: opportunities is very short for them.
Speaker 3: Right.
Speaker 2: It's like, unless you're a sports broadcaster, which very few
Speaker 2: people can be a sports broadcaster, there's not a lot
Speaker 2: of opportunities. And he was like, not a lot of
Speaker 2: people stay relevant their relevance he dies. He was like,
Speaker 2: he's able to stay relevant. It's a whole different conversation,
Speaker 2: but long story short, Yeah, you've you've been able to
Speaker 2: be a sports broadcaster, but not a lot of people
Speaker 2: have been able to be sports broadcasters. So talk about that,
Speaker 2: the transition from being an athlete to no longer playing,
Speaker 2: your transition to being a broadcaster, how that's worked, and
Speaker 2: a lot of your peers that have not been able
Speaker 2: to transition as smoothly as you have.
Speaker 3: AB's my guy and he went to Central Michigan, and
Speaker 3: I've been following him and supported him and had love
Speaker 3: for him for a long time. And the one thing
Speaker 3: about being an athlete is it becomes of what have
Speaker 3: you done for me lately? Career? If you're a singer,
Speaker 3: or you're a financial advisor. You could do shows or
Speaker 3: manage money in theory forever. You can do that to
Speaker 3: your thirties and forties, your fifties, your sixties. I was
Speaker 3: just playing golf. Well, I guess I missed the ball
Speaker 3: five times. I do a't considered playing golf, but I
Speaker 3: was out there at an event with Jack Nicholas. Like
Speaker 3: he's in his eighties, he can still play golf. As
Speaker 3: a basketball player or as a football player, at some time,
Speaker 3: there's going to be a shelflight to what you do.
Speaker 3: So there has to be a plan of appreciating your position,
Speaker 3: like Rick Ross said, applying your promotion. And I started
Speaker 3: working on my set career when I got traded from
Speaker 3: the Pacers because radio TV finn was my major in
Speaker 3: college and in Indiana, we were going to the playoffs.
Speaker 3: We had one of the best records in the league
Speaker 3: and dah da da dah. But when I got traded
Speaker 3: to the Bulls, it was February. They had nine wins, Like,
Speaker 3: we ain't going to playoffs. It's my team right right,
Speaker 3: I'm like, we ain't going to the playoffs. I literally
Speaker 3: reached out, I had did one oh six apart. I
Speaker 3: did b T mad Sports. I reached out to contact
Speaker 3: I had there and I pitched the idea to let
Speaker 3: them have me cover the finals for them that year.
Speaker 3: I was like, I got a spot in LA. I
Speaker 3: think the Lakers are gonna make They just won championship,
Speaker 3: like I think they had Shaq and Kobe. It was killing.
Speaker 3: I was like, I think the Lakers gonna be in.
Speaker 3: The Lakers are in for sure, y'all should let me
Speaker 3: cover it. All y'all gotta do is send the camera.
Speaker 3: I'll get the access. I'll do all of that. Lakers
Speaker 3: made it. They played New Jersey nets at the time,
Speaker 3: and I did everything interview, Shaq interview, Dezel interview, Jack interview, everybody,
Speaker 3: cut and spiced it. They played it on TV. Soon
Speaker 3: they played it on TV. I recorded it and I
Speaker 3: pitched it the best damn sports show. And they hired
Speaker 3: me so while I was in the league. Like we
Speaker 3: see Draymond Green, my little brother doing it right now,
Speaker 3: but imagine it took like twenty five years for another
Speaker 3: player to do it while they were playing. I already
Speaker 3: did that. You see what I mean. They hired me
Speaker 3: while I was in the league, and so from two
Speaker 3: thousand and two or three to two thousand and seven, BT,
Speaker 3: Mass Sports, NFL Network, MTV Movie Awards, Top Rank Boxing. Like,
Speaker 3: I was doing all of these gigs while I was
Speaker 3: still a twenty point scorer in the league. So when
Speaker 3: I retired in two thousand and seven, I'm trying to
Speaker 3: figure where I was gonna go next with my mother
Speaker 3: time media career. I ended up choosing ESPN because it's
Speaker 3: twenty four seven, three sixty five sports, and that's where
Speaker 3: I ultimately landed. This was my twentieth consecutive year covering
Speaker 3: the finals on TV, and so like being a part
Speaker 3: of the multi media space and trying to keep myself relevant.
Speaker 3: It's a score of the game and it's a game
Speaker 3: of life. And the one thing athletes have to learn
Speaker 3: is it's only like ten people that the rest of
Speaker 3: the world really cares what they accomplished, you know what
Speaker 3: I mean? And in America, to be honest with you,
Speaker 3: society tries to make us feel like it's only ten
Speaker 3: successful Black people like you. Ain't you ain't you ain't
Speaker 3: what is you done? You ain't nobody? You're a loser,
Speaker 3: like a loser, what I mean? Hold up, mother, you
Speaker 3: know what I'm saying, how black cart down to the dentists, Like,
Speaker 3: How'm a champion in my life?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 3: But what ends up happening is it's like, if you're
Speaker 3: not Michael Jordan, you're not jay Z. The society makes
Speaker 3: us think it's only ten successful black people, and the
Speaker 3: relevancy you talked about, that's only it's not relevancy. Actually
Speaker 3: it's visibility because just because I'm not on TV all
Speaker 3: of the time, I don't mean I ain't somewhere breaking
Speaker 3: bread doing what I want to do. Hav an entrepreneur pursuits.
Speaker 3: Look at a junior Bridgeman, Yeah, yeah, like he's been
Speaker 3: an elite businessman forever as a former NBA player. What
Speaker 3: I'm Denny Johnson, Jamal Mashburg, same thing, Jamal Mashburn. Correct.
Speaker 3: And so what ends up happening is those stories don't
Speaker 3: get acknowledged, but they're happening. And the reason why they
Speaker 3: don't get acknowledged is because those dudes ain't pumping chess.
Speaker 3: It's all talking about.
Speaker 7: They just like collecting the money, you know what I'm saying,
Speaker 7: Like like dice game, it just collected the money, right,
Speaker 7: And so that to me is actually been an amazing
Speaker 7: thing for me to still work in multimedia.
Speaker 3: After playing or wild playing, because it then drives the
Speaker 3: opportunity for me to fundraise for j LA, the opportunity
Speaker 3: to keep a visibility that now gives me an opportunity
Speaker 3: to change things in my community. That's really the thing
Speaker 3: that I appreciate about the opportunities I've been giving.
Speaker 4: Yeah, so from the business standpoint, let's start early.
Speaker 6: You said when you were in college you didn't know
Speaker 6: what your credit score was, so they probably the education
Speaker 6: wasn't there. But obviously throughout your career you've developed it.
Speaker 6: And so you've had two careers, right, You've had the
Speaker 6: professional one as an athlete. Now you have a professional
Speaker 6: one as an analyst and a producer too. Who's the
Speaker 6: fab five thirty to thirty was done by you?
Speaker 3: So what's that like?
Speaker 6: Because we spoke to Jamel Hill about negotiating contracts. I
Speaker 6: know it's one thing for the sports, but from this side,
Speaker 6: this is this is this is a new thing.
Speaker 4: Are you hands on?
Speaker 6: Is you keep the same agent when you're going through
Speaker 6: this process or how does this work? I'll fire you
Speaker 6: in a minute.
Speaker 3: I had a couple of agents as a player and
Speaker 3: I've had a couple of agents as a media personality,
Speaker 3: and one of the scariest things about being talent, as
Speaker 3: we're called is that some of the most important conversations
Speaker 3: about your career happened but you're not on the phone,
Speaker 3: y j. Just think about the dynamics of that. You
Speaker 3: hire an agent, they're talking to the network, they're talking
Speaker 3: to the team, but you ain't on the phone, and
Speaker 3: so you don't know what they saying about you or
Speaker 3: if they even representing your best interest. So what ends
Speaker 3: up happening is what I learned to do is I
Speaker 3: have an amazing team of people that work for me.
Speaker 3: I'm i am not who I am without my team.
Speaker 3: I got the best team, but I need to know
Speaker 3: what's being said cause it's too important. So yeah, yes,
Speaker 3: I'll still have personal relationships with the people I'm negotiating with.
Speaker 3: I'm still talking to them, I'm still communicating with people
Speaker 3: that work on my behalf because it is a different game,
Speaker 3: it is a different space, and also the media hates
Speaker 3: when you don't conform. Like Lamar Jackson right now, he
Speaker 3: negotiated his contract with the Ravens. At some point when
Speaker 3: you hear him talk at some point when people are
Speaker 3: talking about his contract, they're gonna say Olamar doesn't have
Speaker 3: an agent. I remember he was coming out for the
Speaker 3: draft and they were like, well, it's hard to get
Speaker 3: in contact with No, he's not his mama's representing him.
Speaker 3: You want to contact anybody, you could call a MoMA.
Speaker 3: He ain't hard to find. What it is is he's
Speaker 3: not traditionally paying the system to get him paid. He's
Speaker 3: bypassing it. I'm gonna be on the phone to talk
Speaker 3: about my money in my career and they don't like that.
Speaker 3: They hate that. And that's why you going into a
Speaker 3: season as a four MVP without a deal. Deshaun Watson
Speaker 3: how many games he won for the Browns.
Speaker 6: Zero can't play the first twelve most money ever for
Speaker 6: a quarterback.
Speaker 4: And it deals back to a bit. So this year
Speaker 4: gets one of the cellar.
Speaker 3: They're going to take care of him because he's talented,
Speaker 3: is the point. Lamar has already shown us that. But
Speaker 3: since he's not feeding the system, it's a little tougher
Speaker 3: for him to get his bread. And so that's what
Speaker 3: I learned, is that even if you're unorthodox and you're
Speaker 3: not necessarily just like yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, okay, okay, okay,
Speaker 3: then it could be a little more turbulent. But you
Speaker 3: need to stand on the table about your life, your
Speaker 3: business because we only have one.
Speaker 2: How do you feel? So we spoke to Jamil Hell
Speaker 2: she was talking about women.
Speaker 3: I love Jamil about Yeah she's from Detroit.
Speaker 2: Yes, she was talking about the difference between.
Speaker 3: Now she represents the city. I loved Jamil. Yeah, she
Speaker 3: she put on for the city.
Speaker 2: So she was talking about the difference between women and
Speaker 2: men in sports. And her husband who went to my
Speaker 2: high school. Yeah, good DUDEO met him in La too. Yeah,
Speaker 2: she's talking about the differen between women and men's pay.
Speaker 2: But I just thought of something just in this moment. Actually,
Speaker 2: you see Tony Romo. He's excellent. He's actually excellent in
Speaker 2: he gets paid over there, but he gets paid a
Speaker 2: lot of money. I think who else Tom Brady got
Speaker 2: offered the deal before he even.
Speaker 4: He's still playing Troy Aikman.
Speaker 2: Uh, these contracts that they get in is crazy football.
Speaker 2: They're like baseball numbers.
Speaker 3: McAfee.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I haven't. I've never heard of her. I might
Speaker 2: be wrong, but I haven't heard of any black sports
Speaker 2: analysts or black players having that same type of even
Speaker 2: steven A when they was like how much he got
Speaker 2: paid and it wasn't really that much compared to other
Speaker 2: people in that space. What is your thoughts on that,
Speaker 2: because that's something that nobody's really like. I said, I
Speaker 2: never even thought about that until this very moment. I've
Speaker 2: never heard anybody bring that up. But I don't know,
Speaker 2: seems a little off to me. Most of the sports
Speaker 2: are dominated by black athletes.
Speaker 3: And for steven A, who's been able to establish himself
Speaker 3: as one of the best at what he or we does,
Speaker 3: he's not quote unquote considered a former athlete because he
Speaker 3: quote unquote didn't play in the pros. And so I've
Speaker 3: said this, I would make more money in this game
Speaker 3: based on my experience and based on my education. If
Speaker 3: I wasn't a former player, I would make more money.
Speaker 3: And what has happened in sports. If you have the
Speaker 3: word quarterback attached to your name in football, it could
Speaker 3: be Pop Warner quarterback. You could get top dollar.
Speaker 2: For your job.
Speaker 3: Basketball players, you ain't seen it. When it's time for
Speaker 3: that multimedia space to get paid in football, it's oh,
Speaker 3: it's so much money in the game of course they're
Speaker 3: gonna pay Jane or John Duck. It's money in basketball too.
Speaker 3: And another thing you don't see, and this is something
Speaker 3: that I hope to be a part of, is us
Speaker 3: now being our own multimedia conglomerate where we actually own
Speaker 3: the content, where we're creating the shows, where we're now
Speaker 3: the infrastructure. You're still working with the system within the system,
Speaker 3: but that still hasn't happened. And especially for people that
Speaker 3: look like me and you and those top dollar game
Speaker 3: changing tracks, you ain't seen it for a former basketball player.
Speaker 4: No, I'm trying to even think of a black football player. No,
Speaker 4: definitely not football, but what and you but you just said, why.
Speaker 3: The only former black football players I see working in
Speaker 3: the media or who Michael Vick.
Speaker 2: Ray lewis the quarterback quarterback backs? Yeah, Michael Vick.
Speaker 4: They got RGI three at ESPN Archie three.
Speaker 3: He just got into it absolutely, And so they're starting
Speaker 3: to trickle in now. But what has happened is to
Speaker 3: his point, like the market has already been set. And
Speaker 3: so for me as a form, I'm the only basketball
Speaker 3: player still to this day, and I stand on the
Speaker 3: shoulders of my brother John Sally, who brought me in
Speaker 3: former Bad Boy og when he was a member of
Speaker 3: the Best Damn Sports Show. And I remember Jason Williams
Speaker 3: of the Nets.
Speaker 4: Jason Williams, okay, that Jameson.
Speaker 3: Before he had his issue. He was also working with NBC.
Speaker 3: And those were two people when I was in the
Speaker 3: late nineties thinking like, dangn that's dope. They in the
Speaker 3: league and they working in the media. So I kind
Speaker 3: of asked them for advice and what I should do
Speaker 3: and stuff like that. But still to this day, when
Speaker 3: I started doing Numbers Never Lie with Michael Smith and
Speaker 3: Hugh Douglas. That was in like twenty eleven. That was
Speaker 3: the first time since The Best Damn Sports Show that
Speaker 3: a former basketball player was featured on the Monday through
Speaker 3: Friday show. That's still the case to this day, like
Speaker 3: on Deontay Water to this day, to this day. And
Speaker 3: I'm not talking about like an NBA show. Of course
Speaker 3: you're gonna have some basketball players on an NBA show.
Speaker 3: I'm talking about like a variety show like Jayda and
Speaker 3: Jakobe is a variety show. You look at the show.
Speaker 3: I got Immortals behind Me, got the Ali Summing, I
Speaker 3: got Harriet Tubman, I got Nipsey like that's a variety show.
Speaker 3: Still to this day, the only basketball player featured on
Speaker 3: the Monday through Friday show. So these are things in
Speaker 3: the industry that I hope to change, that I want
Speaker 3: to see change and I welcome and so I hope
Speaker 3: that that's happening. But it's already been established almost how
Speaker 3: it's going to be, So it's hard to cut through.
Speaker 3: Look at if you look at the faces of the
Speaker 3: announcers the Playboy, if you look at the look at
Speaker 3: the faces of the hosts in basketball and football. You
Speaker 3: look at the faces of the announcers in basketball and football.
Speaker 3: You look at the faces of the people that break
Speaker 3: news in basketball and football. Even though those sports are
Speaker 3: majority black, we're verly we're underrepresented in the areas I
Speaker 3: just described.
Speaker 6: And as you're saying, I'm thinking of the names that
Speaker 6: I'm hearing these lyrics from.
Speaker 4: It's either the Chefter or it's Wojo for basketball.
Speaker 6: And everybody's number everything, even like Mike Breen or you
Speaker 6: got Jim Nansen football. I'm just thinking of the names
Speaker 6: as you're saying it. But I mean, you're in media, right,
Speaker 6: so you do have Jailing and Jacob and then you
Speaker 6: have jailing.
Speaker 4: Versus everybody, so you have the media. Yep, is it?
Speaker 6: Is it the expansion gonna happen to because obviously that
Speaker 6: thirty for third that you did, I mean you were
Speaker 6: producing that, So there's plenty of other stories that can
Speaker 6: be told.
Speaker 4: Do you vision yourself and your team.
Speaker 6: Telling more stories and having more of a you know,
Speaker 6: like a handle and trying to shape narrative and change this?
Speaker 3: Yes? Yes? And the thing that has changed from only
Speaker 3: having linear opportunities on television to now having these digital
Speaker 3: opportunities that before everybody was only in the rush to
Speaker 3: be on TV. But now you realize based on the
Speaker 3: digital space as we now do this show, like, there's
Speaker 3: so many successful properties that aren't on linear television because
Speaker 3: they're being now funded digitally and you can put them
Speaker 3: out socially and you can put the clips out and
Speaker 3: then you can now create a career in theory without
Speaker 3: being on TV. See when I started doing this, you
Speaker 3: couldn't have a career without being on TV because social
Speaker 3: media didn't exist, right, And I hope that we're starting
Speaker 3: to see more diversity in a couple of the spaces
Speaker 3: that I mentioned. But I've been saying this for twenty years.
Speaker 3: To be honest with you.
Speaker 2: I also just thought about something in this moment with media.
Speaker 2: Sports is the only feel where players are critiqued every
Speaker 2: single day, Like if you think about it, there's not
Speaker 2: daily shows that it's like critiquing actors. Shows as critique
Speaker 2: and musicians like you got the breakfast though, but they're
Speaker 2: not like every single day their job is into break
Speaker 2: down every part that Drake has.
Speaker 4: Correct outside of politics, right.
Speaker 2: Politics, But every single day there's sports critique, and sometimes
Speaker 2: it goes a little too far, like Skip, he goes
Speaker 2: too far sometimes, I think, in my opinion, he goes
Speaker 2: too far away too much. Yeah, definitely.
Speaker 3: So I had to tell him about itself too.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, what you tell that?
Speaker 3: I know that he averaged.
Speaker 2: In high school.
Speaker 3: That's a classic clip. I really that was. I was
Speaker 3: on my care risk one and the teacher he taught
Speaker 3: us that he kept a disc record for everybody in
Speaker 3: the top ten in case somebody he ready for a
Speaker 3: body shot. He ready for a jab, and I was.
Speaker 3: I was ready for the same thing. I was ready
Speaker 3: for a face shot, a jab. I was ready for
Speaker 3: a knockout punch, you know what I'm saying. And that
Speaker 3: and that's what it has to be. And so also
Speaker 3: as we talk about like the athletes and media also
Speaker 3: acknowledge this, who are the experts? If I have experienced
Speaker 3: at something whatever it is, and you don't, and we
Speaker 3: have the same information in the same knowledge base, that
Speaker 3: makes me the expert. That's why if you notice when
Speaker 3: you're watching certain when you're watching it don't even matter digital, linear,
Speaker 3: and it don't even matter what you're watching. The person
Speaker 3: that's getting paid the most is asking the person with
Speaker 3: the expertise.
Speaker 6: The question, yeah, the commentator, get gain, tell us what
Speaker 6: you saw, get gain?
Speaker 3: And then this athlete sometimes becomes disposable or turnkey because
Speaker 3: we're gonna get somebody else that just got out of
Speaker 3: the league. This is the expert, right, but we now
Speaker 3: need that person to be paid as such. That's a
Speaker 3: despair that that's a discrepancy that's happened in multimedia for
Speaker 3: a very long time that it's obvious to see.
Speaker 2: So do you think that what's the responsibility for journalists too,
Speaker 2: because they walk a lot of dead lines in sports,
Speaker 2: Like what do you think the responsibility is between doing
Speaker 2: a job, critiquing somebody, giving your opinion and going too far.
Speaker 3: Going too far as when you're calling Chris Bosh Spice.
Speaker 2: M hm, that's too far Spice. Like from the Spice
Speaker 2: girls heard that? Who said that?
Speaker 3: You mentioned the name right right, So that's going too
Speaker 3: far to me. And it's a real distinction. If you're
Speaker 3: from the hood, you're gonna appreciate this. When you call
Speaker 3: me out my name is when you go too far, we'll.
Speaker 2: Talking about Lebron's son.
Speaker 3: And like I told him, every time you talk about Ronnie,
Speaker 3: I'm gonna talk about you because he don't deserve that.
Speaker 3: Like I'm a son of a former athlete that I
Speaker 3: didn't know. Like him and his father have a terrific relationship.
Speaker 3: Lebron has been very open with allowing the public into
Speaker 3: his life. We know who his wife is, we know
Speaker 3: his kids is, we know where he lived, we know
Speaker 3: like him, Chris Paul Steph Curry, like certain athletes do
Speaker 3: an amazing job of being a dad, a husband, a brother,
Speaker 3: a son and all of that in front of everybody.
Speaker 3: Like that's impressive to me. And what crosses the line
Speaker 3: is when you calling me out my name. You can
Speaker 3: say I was over twelve. You can say that you
Speaker 3: don't like my game, you can say that I'm don't
Speaker 3: deserve to be an All Star, whatever you want to say.
Speaker 3: But when you start creating nicknames to call me, that's
Speaker 3: too far.
Speaker 6: That's like the west Brook. Then he says west Brook. Yeah,
Speaker 6: you're talking about the Hall of Famer.
Speaker 3: Yes, because you don't have to disrespect me. It's nothing
Speaker 3: when you when you call me a name, all you're
Speaker 3: trying to do is disrespect me. Yeah, you know what
Speaker 3: I mean, and get some And here's a peanut gallery thing. Also,
Speaker 3: you're trying to get some key keys. You're trying to
Speaker 3: get so you're trying to create a name to get
Speaker 3: them to laugh at me. So now what if I
Speaker 3: come for your job?
Speaker 2: Well, it's a president that's been said. Remember Romeome, you
Speaker 2: got smack put hands on camera.
Speaker 3: I remember that.
Speaker 2: That was the legendary moment that was he asked him
Speaker 2: to stop and he said he said it like three
Speaker 2: more times.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 4: That was crazy.
Speaker 3: Yeah, And so to me, that's that's that's the line
Speaker 3: of going too far when you're calling me out my name.
Speaker 3: And now with social it's even more intense because even
Speaker 3: if I'm cool with it and I'm like, it ain't
Speaker 3: no big deal. My brother, not my family, ain't my
Speaker 3: kids not. So now I still gotta come for you, bro.
Speaker 2: I even I didn't like. I didn't like the way
Speaker 2: that steven A. I didn't like the way that he
Speaker 2: took the Kyrie thing because I felt like, all right,
Speaker 2: if you don't agree with him getting a shot, which
Speaker 2: was inconsistent because he actually had what's McCauley as his
Speaker 2: NFL player the year, Aaron Rodgers wouldn't get the shot either,
Speaker 2: so there was an inconsistency in that. But the way
Speaker 2: that it was almost like he had something personal against him,
Speaker 2: like I mean like that to me and we met Kyrie,
Speaker 2: He's actually a really cool dude. So I thought that
Speaker 2: that's something that is dangerous too, because it's like you
Speaker 2: got a lot of extreme people and like when you're
Speaker 2: fueling a fire and you never know, somebody might take
Speaker 2: that and run with it, like you know what I mean.
Speaker 2: And I felt like that's something that's not responsible to
Speaker 2: kind of put out there, like it crosses the line
Speaker 2: between being a sports and list and being a personal vendetta.
Speaker 6: But it also fuses, like you said, like somebody who's
Speaker 6: not in the right mindset, like what happened with Chris
Speaker 6: Paul at the playoff game. They feel comfortable touching his mom,
Speaker 6: that's an issue. Or like when somebody's saying West Brick
Speaker 6: in front of his family and they just came to
Speaker 6: watch it. Get me right, Like, you don't know what
Speaker 6: that one take that you had to try to get
Speaker 6: labs to try to get raised has now done on
Speaker 6: a personal level to somebody's family.
Speaker 3: And you're calling me a name more importantly, so other
Speaker 3: people will too, right, So you're giving me a tag now,
Speaker 3: and as somebody who's so very grateful that his name
Speaker 3: has become a common name, nobody knows that better than me.
Speaker 3: A name is a symbol like that. That's not a
Speaker 3: shotgun decision. When you're gonna name your kid after somebody,
Speaker 3: that's a nine month everybody get to chime in on
Speaker 3: the name of the baby, parents get to chime in, siblings, grandparents, grid,
Speaker 3: that's not a shotgun. That's not a one night stand decision,
Speaker 3: you know what I mean. And so when you're calling
Speaker 3: me Box Spice, you're saying it so everybody else will too.
Speaker 3: That's my true problem with it. You're trying to get
Speaker 3: me a tag. So now I gotta defend myself because
Speaker 3: if I don't, then now everybody's gonna think that's cool.
Speaker 3: It's almost like social media. At some point you gotta
Speaker 3: just block.
Speaker 6: People, yeah, or you can't defend yourself right right right,
Speaker 6: because if you do, now you know this person has
Speaker 6: an opportunity every day to say it, and you're not
Speaker 6: gonna get the opportunity to say because you got to
Speaker 6: focus on the craft.
Speaker 3: I'm not judging people that do. I just joined Instagram
Speaker 3: maybe three years ago. At first I wasn't gonna join.
Speaker 3: I'm sure my age matures. You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 3: It ain't both that. You know what I'm saying. I'm like,
Speaker 3: all right, everybody, you gotta joint. You gotta joint, you
Speaker 3: gotta joint. And the one thing I noticed, and I
Speaker 3: never do this, and again there are other people that
Speaker 3: do this, But if I post something, I ain't about
Speaker 3: to argue with the people in the comments. I posted it.
Speaker 3: I said it, and I'm gonna stand on it. I
Speaker 3: ain't about to now get in the comments and be
Speaker 3: arguing with everybody about what I just said. I'm just
Speaker 3: not gonna do that. And that's the same thing that
Speaker 3: we have here is if you're calling me a name,
Speaker 3: you're disrespecting me, so be ready for me to pour
Speaker 3: receipts on you. And normally in these cases, and we're
Speaker 3: talking about one point four, he didn't handle it well
Speaker 3: when I pull his receipts. He didn't handle it well.
Speaker 3: Because usually if you're a junior playing JV, that's almost
Speaker 3: like a.
Speaker 8: Bully, right right, So, but but now if people say
Speaker 8: that to him, right, he'll be mad.
Speaker 4: Still at me.
Speaker 3: Because I put it out there. And that's how the
Speaker 3: athlete feels when you do that to them.
Speaker 2: Yeah, those are your own medicine.
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's the fact that is.
Speaker 2: Well, before we leave, just one one question I got
Speaker 2: to ask you. I don't like to just do top five,
Speaker 2: it is kan generic, but I want to ask you this,
Speaker 2: who is the top three college teams? Because you want
Speaker 2: a legendary team. You want you want a legendary team,
Speaker 2: top three college teams, and that could be for just talent,
Speaker 2: a loan or impact or whatever however you want to I've.
Speaker 3: Never been asked this.
Speaker 4: We've had this, we had this conversation.
Speaker 3: So okay, okay, so my top three can excuse themselves.
Speaker 2: No, no, he got it.
Speaker 3: Well, the Fab five is in there. That's one, of course,
Speaker 3: U N l V.
Speaker 4: What's your l J Stacey og Man championship year? The
Speaker 4: year any year? Okay they now they lost to do
Speaker 4: but that they had two years they won and they lost.
Speaker 3: The year they lost the Duke I was in Anderson
Speaker 3: I was. It was in southwest Detroit and Anderson Hunt's
Speaker 3: basement with full U and l V gear on and
Speaker 3: like you and the five five lost. Tears came down
Speaker 3: my eyes. I never knew that I'd be playing against
Speaker 3: Duke the next year in the finals. That's crazy. That's crazy.
Speaker 3: That's crazy. Fab five running rebels. I mean, I love
Speaker 3: DC Syracuse teams.
Speaker 2: Okay, so let me.
Speaker 3: Sherman, Douglas, Stevie Towmson.
Speaker 2: You want to throw a couple more, you want to
Speaker 2: do five? Just around it, all right, let's do five?
Speaker 3: All right? All right? Okay?
Speaker 2: Because Georgetown, which one.
Speaker 3: I was gonna go to one before Patrick Patrick, Edgie
Speaker 3: williams wing Gate that squad.
Speaker 4: Yeah, so that's like the eighty fourteen ye and.
Speaker 3: I mean that Carolina squad with Jordan's Worthy, you know, so.
Speaker 4: All yes, go all right?
Speaker 3: Got it?
Speaker 2: So all right, that's that's the sort. What I said
Speaker 2: was for what impacted me personally was you guys, of
Speaker 2: course U n l V. Of course North Carolina. But
Speaker 2: the different North Carolina team when they had Vince Carter
Speaker 2: agreed Jamison.
Speaker 3: Yeah, but see they're younger than me. Yeah, they're younger.
Speaker 4: That's why everything is.
Speaker 2: Yeah, how impacted.
Speaker 6: Remember at Coda Shaman Williams Knocktart so.
Speaker 3: Are you ready for this? Mac Tar played with Tim Duncan.
Speaker 3: At wake Forest he played with Rashie, and North Carolina
Speaker 3: played with us, and that's what I got. Yeah, it
Speaker 3: was he was so Larry Brown was my coach with
Speaker 3: the Pacers. One year in pre season we actice at Carolina.
Speaker 3: I went to campus the first time I seen Rashie,
Speaker 3: Vince Carter, Stackhouse rocking Michigan gear on campus at Carolina,
Speaker 3: and they was like, Dean Smith, love you dog. They
Speaker 3: took me to Carolina's I guess it was the athletic facility.
Speaker 3: It was a picture of me hanging up shooting the
Speaker 3: ball over Bobby Hurley. It was it was like Dean
Speaker 3: love you. I was like, well, he ain't love me,
Speaker 3: not let me win that champions you know what I mean?
Speaker 3: But I love them too, like like squads after me,
Speaker 3: like players at Like when I say after me was
Speaker 3: like after I was in college. Bubble Chuck for sure.
Speaker 2: So that was my name. So like for me, it's
Speaker 2: moments in time. And I got that same feeling that
Speaker 2: I had when y'all got was playing, when Allen Iverson's playing.
Speaker 2: But it wasn't just Ai. It was Victor Page, also Pages.
Speaker 3: Lefty Strong, you love him. It was love Y again.
Speaker 4: I love also Della Harrington, Chunky Piston.
Speaker 2: They had like four NBA players on that.
Speaker 6: But the conversation, Carolina was to the conversation we had
Speaker 6: was who was the most you said, I said the
Speaker 6: ninety Kentucky You said, Duke. They never said I would
Speaker 6: never say that's not true, all right, So if I
Speaker 6: did say dude, you know that the conversation was.
Speaker 4: The most talented basketball team. And so we talk of talent.
Speaker 6: There's no more there's no team that has more NBA
Speaker 6: players than the ninety six Kentucky team.
Speaker 3: That's a fact.
Speaker 6: There's not even that's wall Boogie, that's Blessed Mercer ninety.
Speaker 6: They beat Otil and they Ailson was at Ohio State,
Speaker 6: heard his knee and trans Kucky. That's what they had,
Speaker 6: Antoine Walker and Colder and no no, no, Antoine Walker,
Speaker 6: Tony delk Walt to McCarty, uh Ron Mercer. That's five
Speaker 6: NBA first round players. Squad first round you.
Speaker 4: Had, like guys off the bench. I think it's.
Speaker 2: Got How do you measure that impact in the league though.
Speaker 4: Now that said talent, that said talent, that's different.
Speaker 3: What about the Kentucky team with wall Boogie.
Speaker 4: But they didn't win Bladtae, they didn't win.
Speaker 3: They did, they didn't win.
Speaker 6: And then the net so that the Duke one was yo,
Speaker 6: that ninety eight Duke team that lost to Yukon are
Speaker 6: not just super Corey mcghetty, Melton brand trains your LinkedIn
Speaker 6: like that that team.
Speaker 2: Where you you talent, you gotta measure them about what
Speaker 2: they did in the NBA also on them.
Speaker 6: That's so then you name it better than the Kentucky one.
Speaker 6: I mean they got eight NBA players. That's tough to do.
Speaker 2: Bro, that is crazy.
Speaker 4: That's tough to do.
Speaker 2: That is crazy.
Speaker 3: That's tough.
Speaker 2: Yeah, they didn't have the same cultural impact.
Speaker 6: Now I didn't have a culture impact now they I
Speaker 6: mean Patino was a coach, he probably has more impact
Speaker 6: on the game than those guys.
Speaker 4: But you know, Sideat was also who.
Speaker 3: No doubts, just saw him at the posts when the
Speaker 3: Celtics was playing.
Speaker 2: He was the best one on the team Korea.
Speaker 6: Watch career watch for sure, but Derrick Anderson, had he
Speaker 6: not get hurt, probably was At.
Speaker 4: I mean equally as talented. My mercer didn't really pan
Speaker 4: out like we thought.
Speaker 3: But yeah, there was a crazy talented team and that
Speaker 3: that really set the stage to Cale doing the one
Speaker 3: and done thing. They beat you mass that's at the
Speaker 3: stage I know said that's new row, new role on Marcus.
Speaker 2: I used to padilla, Yeah, head guard.
Speaker 6: I usually that's when you used to I used to
Speaker 6: like literally vhu like vhs at all the games. Like
Speaker 6: the last time I did that and it hurt my
Speaker 6: heart was the ninety seven Championship.
Speaker 4: I'm a Kentucky fan.
Speaker 6: That's why you said Jamal Masher, I'm like, oh, yeah,
Speaker 6: I love him and Travis for it. That's when I
Speaker 6: start like, oh these monks so y'all. You could see
Speaker 6: like obviously that but the impact was big, but they
Speaker 6: lost to my bibby in Arizona.
Speaker 4: One. I can't I can't do this no more. It's
Speaker 4: too emotional.
Speaker 3: But I'm glad you pulled my coat to that Kentucky
Speaker 3: team having hey pros. I slept on that. That's true.
Speaker 3: That's what I do.
Speaker 6: You know, I have a career in sports at some point.
Speaker 3: This is what we know.
Speaker 2: We do the sports thing all day every day.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I did have the five jersey with the bulls.
Speaker 4: And my daughter's middle name.
Speaker 3: Is Rose Lessons.
Speaker 4: But we'll talk about that. So it was gonna be jailing,
Speaker 4: no joy, it was gonna be jailing. But her name
Speaker 4: is Jordan. But you can see why.
Speaker 3: You, Michael Jordan, get the edge every now and slightly.
Speaker 2: Oh nah, appreciate you, brother, Thank you.
Speaker 3: I appreciate y'all. And the number one thing I appreciate.
Speaker 3: First off, I'm a fan of y'all show, and there's
Speaker 3: nothing like that in the marketplace. We need more intelligent,
Speaker 3: responsible brothers that have the pulse of our culture, but
Speaker 3: also how the respect of our people. So I thank y'all.
Speaker 3: And then the other thing, I want to thank all
Speaker 3: y'all for actually coming here. See Detroit is one of
Speaker 3: those places like you gotta get on the airplane. You
Speaker 3: see what I mean. It ain't a part of yall
Speaker 3: normal route. You see what I say, y'all have to
Speaker 3: look at the schedule, like when we're going to Detroit, sous.
Speaker 3: But you see what I'm saying.
Speaker 2: I think I like about Detroit shouting. My god can
Speaker 2: shout out to chill, you know, but Detroit real solid dudes,
Speaker 2: Like I feel like it's like old school. It's like
Speaker 2: the old school, like you know what I'm saying, Like
Speaker 2: heavy integrity, like and they just good dudes, you know
Speaker 2: what I'm saying. Like everybody that I met from Detroit
Speaker 2: is real, like just real cool, real play, like real solid.
Speaker 3: Yes, you know what I mean. Like when y'all come back,
Speaker 3: depending on what day it is, I love to take
Speaker 3: you guys out and show y'all around a little bit
Speaker 3: for sure, done and done. Let me know when y'all
Speaker 3: gonna come back. I know we're here on the Daylight
Speaker 3: Tip and we're talking about j R l A educate
Speaker 3: the community, but.
Speaker 2: We got too, so we do events all over, like
Speaker 2: we did a big event in Atlanta that you definitely
Speaker 2: have to do a done.
Speaker 3: Let me know done.
Speaker 2: Anything that you want to tell of people before before
Speaker 2: we rap? How can they donate to the school actually.
Speaker 3: So the JR lad Trade dot com for more information
Speaker 3: about the school. We're open enrollment with tuition free with
Speaker 3: public charter in in our twelfth year of operation. Right now,
Speaker 3: I have a capital campaign where I'm raising ten million
Speaker 3: dollars to expand our facility so that we can have
Speaker 3: a state of the our collegiate gym, so we don't
Speaker 3: have to have rotating teachers. We can have a couple
Speaker 3: of more classrooms. Trying to create a holistic space for meditating, praying, yoga, stretching,
Speaker 3: and counseling. And so this school is a community hub.
Speaker 3: When the pandemic happens, we open it up as a
Speaker 3: voting site. We feed families, We presented an opportunity for
Speaker 3: people to get vaccinated. So this is a labor of
Speaker 3: love for the community. So I'm grateful that you guys can't.
Speaker 2: We're definitely gonna put the link in the description and
Speaker 2: we're gonna donate as well, because you know it's inspiring
Speaker 2: to see what you're doing. Thanks, So keep up the
Speaker 2: great work, brothers.
Speaker 4: I appreciate you. Man.
Speaker 2: Love there you have it, ladies and gentlemen, that's a rapper.
Speaker 3: Daln Rose y'all.
Speaker 5: My graduates from my school being force back drop drop
Speaker 5: Mike drop back drop.
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