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Speaker 1: Pushkin. It's winter nineteen thirty six in New York. A

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Speaker 1: party is in full swing and everyone is having a good.

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Speaker 2: Time drinking and dancing.

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Speaker 3: The cigarette smoke was so dense they could barely see

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Speaker 3: each other.

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Speaker 1: The place is full of artists wearing patched up woolen

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Speaker 1: suits and cheap sequin dresses, driving as fast as they

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Speaker 1: can just to keep warm. This is Mary Gabriel, who

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Speaker 1: wrote Ninth Street Women.

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Speaker 3: Life outside and the streets was difficult because it was

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Speaker 3: still the Depression. Life inside their studios was difficult, but

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Speaker 3: inside their dance hall they could let it all go.

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Speaker 3: They would buy bottles of booze, get together and have

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Speaker 3: just a raucous good time.

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Speaker 1: In the middle of the crowd is a woman in

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Speaker 1: her late twenties, short bob net stockings, heels. She's effortlessly

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Speaker 1: dancing rings around everyone else. Lee Krasner has got rhythm.

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Speaker 3: Dancing was one of the passions of her life, and

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Speaker 3: she took it very seriously.

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Speaker 1: Lee knows she's turning heads, and not just because of

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Speaker 1: her quick feet. Lee's painting had got people's attention. Even

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Speaker 1: in art classes, other students would keep their eye on

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Speaker 1: what Lee was.

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Speaker 3: Doing while she was on the dance floor. A young

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Speaker 3: man stumbled into her mumbled something about wanting to dance.

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Speaker 1: She looks up skeptically.

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Speaker 3: A handsome young man, muscular, someone Lee might have actually

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Speaker 3: been attracted to.

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Speaker 1: She's never seen him before, must be new on the scene,

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Speaker 1: but he's kind of hot type.

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Speaker 3: Until he stepped on her feet, burped in her face,

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Speaker 3: and ended his dance floor seduction with the question do

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Speaker 3: you like to fuck?

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Speaker 2: Lee pushed him away and that was the end of that.

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Speaker 1: But that's not the last she'll see of him, not quite.

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Speaker 1: In five years time, she'll meet him again, and this time,

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Speaker 1: to everyone's surprise, they fool in love.

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Speaker 3: Her friends didn't really know what to make of them.

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Speaker 3: Some of them thought he wasn't worthy of Lee, that

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Speaker 3: he didn't have the personality, that his art wasn't good enough.

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Speaker 3: She was the center of the scene. She was almost

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Speaker 3: seen as doing him a favor by producing him.

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Speaker 4: Jackson Pollock my husband, who was ghastly and stepped all

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Speaker 4: over these.

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Speaker 1: This is Lee Krasner talking about her first meeting with

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Speaker 1: her husband.

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Speaker 4: Any time my name comes up as an artist, it's

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Speaker 4: how it's in relation with Jackson Pobin, who the hell

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Speaker 4: else has ever related to Jackson Pollock. Lee Krasner is

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Speaker 4: always compared to Pollock, and the cliche it's Lee is

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Speaker 4: beshadowed back her husband, and that's it's easy and we

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Speaker 4: don't have to think about that.

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Speaker 1: But it wasn't always like that. In this episode, we're

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Speaker 1: going to go back to a time when Jackson Pollock

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Speaker 1: was overshadowed by Lee Krasner, when Jackson was a nobody

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Speaker 1: and Lee was the one to watch. It's the story

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Speaker 1: of how, at the beginning of the twentieth century, a

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Speaker 1: young Jewish girl from Brooklyn created a new kind of

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Speaker 1: art America had never seen before. I'm Katie Hessel, and

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Speaker 1: this is Death of an Artist Krasner and Pollock Episode two,

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Speaker 1: Inner Rhythm. Here is Lee Krasner talking about her early

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Speaker 1: life in an interview from the nineteen seventies.

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Speaker 5: My whole background is one way.

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Speaker 4: I don't have encouragement right from the beginning, So this

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Speaker 4: is another tough nut to crack. Okay, itself imposed, and

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Speaker 4: I'm aware of that.

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Speaker 1: She was born Lena Krasner in nineteen oh eight, the

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Speaker 1: daughter of Orthodox Jewish immigrants. Her family had fled the

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Speaker 1: pogroms in Eastern Europe. With four young children, they moved

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Speaker 1: to Brownsville, Brooklyn, and less than a year later Lena

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Speaker 1: was born. The Krasners made a living selling fish, fruit

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Speaker 1: and vegetables at a local At home, they spoke Yiddish, Hebrew,

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Speaker 1: and Russian, with a smattering of English, and regularly attended synagogue.

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Speaker 1: Lena hated synagogue. She couldn't understand why the women and

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Speaker 1: men couldn't sit together, why there were so many rules. Instead,

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Speaker 1: Lenna spent her free time copying fashion ads from newspapers

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Speaker 1: and reading Edgar Allan Poe. She already had a sense

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Speaker 1: that Brownsville was not the life of her She wanted

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Speaker 1: something else.

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Speaker 4: I'm graduating from elementary school and one had to indicate

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Speaker 4: what you wanted to major in. And for some reason

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Speaker 4: which to date has not been explained, including a couple

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Speaker 4: of years of analysis, I chose the word art. Don't

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Speaker 4: ask me why. There was nothing in my environment that

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Speaker 4: I can think of now that would have produced this.

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Speaker 1: She watched as her older sisters married nice Jewish boys,

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Speaker 1: stayed in the neighborhood and helped with the family business.

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Speaker 1: And then, in nineteen twenty eight, when Lee was nineteen something,

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Speaker 1: happened that rocked the family. Her older sister Rose died

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Speaker 1: and according to the tradition of their community, Lenna was

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Speaker 1: required to marry Rose's widower, but she refused. The duty

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Speaker 1: fell to her younger sister, and before too long, Lena

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Speaker 1: would leave home and change her name to Lee, becoming

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Speaker 1: Lee Krasner, shorter, more chic, and crucially more American, ready

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Speaker 1: to make a new life for herself.

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Speaker 4: I want my independence. Deal with them.

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Speaker 6: I want to make my own statement.

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Speaker 4: Damn well, deal with it now.

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Speaker 5: I haven't the patience for a time to deal with now,

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Speaker 5: go aheads who I don't know how many years behind me.

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Speaker 5: And that's true as of today.

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Speaker 1: Picture the scene. It's nineteen twenty eight and she is

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Speaker 1: in an airy, chalky room in Manhattan, wearing a smock,

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Speaker 1: sketching a nude. She has made it to New York's

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Speaker 1: most prestigious art college, the National Academy of Design.

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Speaker 2: Was very tradition bound.

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Speaker 1: This is Mary Gabriel.

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Speaker 3: She and her fellow students worked from a nude model

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Speaker 3: Anna Stand in a classical pose, with very rigid rules

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Speaker 3: about what could and could not be drawn and how

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Speaker 3: it should and should be drawn. It was actually the

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Speaker 3: opposite of what creative freedom was about.

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Speaker 1: So this place was not like the art schools of today.

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Speaker 1: It did not encourage you to discover your inner voice

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Speaker 1: or to express yourself. You went to the National Academy

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Speaker 1: to train for a future of painting commissions, landscapes, portraits,

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Speaker 1: that kind of stuff in museums.

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Speaker 3: Against in fact, were largely palaces of artifacts. They were

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Speaker 3: historical places. They weren't places where there was living art.

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Speaker 1: So Lee had finally got out of Brooklyn and made

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Speaker 1: it to the big city. But she now found herself

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Speaker 1: sketching plaster casts of Greek statues and carefully arranged fruit

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Speaker 1: and flowers. It was all well, quite traditional, certainly not

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Speaker 1: what she left her old world behind for. Lee became restless.

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Speaker 1: A note on her record card from the school states,

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Speaker 1: this student is always a bother insists upon having her

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Speaker 1: own way despite school rules. Lee wanted to make a

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Speaker 1: different kind of art, something that could make her feel alive.

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Speaker 1: She was just not quite sure what that looked like yet.

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Speaker 1: But about a year later, Lee got her answer. One

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Speaker 1: afternoon in November nineteen twenty nine, Lee and her classmates

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Speaker 1: were walking down Fifth Avenue. They were on their way

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Speaker 1: to the opening of a new gallery called the Modern

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Speaker 1: now known as the Museum of Modern Art or MoMA,

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Speaker 1: on the corner of fifty seventh Street. Lee walked into

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Speaker 1: a skyscraper and into a fancy lobby. She took an

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Speaker 1: elevator up past the interior designers and magazine offices, all

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Speaker 1: the way up to the twelfth floor. She saw walls

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Speaker 1: covered in dazzling kaleidoscopic colours, shapes and lines dancing from

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Speaker 1: edge to edge, rich thick textures like nothing she'd ever

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Speaker 1: seen before.

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Speaker 3: It took her breath away. It literally moved the earth

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Speaker 3: underneath her. And what she saw on the walls of

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Speaker 3: that museum was pure freedom.

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Speaker 1: A summer's day on a riverbank, made up of thousands

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Speaker 1: of colorful dots, A still life with apples, composed of

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Speaker 1: jagged shapes, landscapes of sun flowers with swirling paint strokes.

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Speaker 1: These were paintings by Suzanne van Goff Gogan Sura, showing

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Speaker 1: in the first ever museum devoted to modern art in

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Speaker 1: New York City. Today, these paintings are uber famous. They're

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Speaker 1: on mugs, t shirts, posters, But imagine being Lee Krasner

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Speaker 1: seeing them here for the first time.

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Speaker 4: A group of us went down and saw this, and

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Speaker 4: that really hit like an explosion with like a barnaby,

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Speaker 4: and that disclouded.

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Speaker 1: These works defied everything that had come before.

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Speaker 3: Suddenly a painting no longer had to be something. They

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Speaker 3: had depicted something, or at.

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Speaker 1: Least not realistically. That was not the aim here.

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Speaker 3: It could be about how the brushstrokes were made, how

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Speaker 3: colors played off each other. It was about the act

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Speaker 3: of painting, much less than what was on the canvas itself.

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Speaker 3: It was absolutely a revolutionist.

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Speaker 1: Even I remember learning about these artists for the first

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Speaker 1: time and being stunned by the blazes of color I'd

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Speaker 1: see on a gallery wall. How they distorted all sense

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Speaker 1: of realism made at the stroke of the twentieth century,

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Speaker 1: they marked the start of tearing the image apart. These

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Speaker 1: works are part of a style called post Impressionism. Impressionism

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Speaker 1: had occurred a few decades before, in the eighteen seventies

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Speaker 1: in Paris, and was a style that was all about

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Speaker 1: creating an impression of something as opposed to the real thing.

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Speaker 1: At the dawn of a new century, artists began to

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Speaker 1: move further away from the real image and use color

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Speaker 1: to express their inner emotions. Then Cubism came along with

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Speaker 1: its sharp edges and lines, breaking down any inkling of perspective.

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Speaker 1: And now suddenly all of this had arrived in New

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Speaker 1: York City.

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Speaker 3: It was like a meteorite had hit the United States

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Speaker 3: and left behind thousands of pieces of art that changed

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Speaker 3: profoundly the way people considered what a painting was.

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Speaker 1: What Lee saw that day and in future visits changed

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Speaker 1: the way she looked at the world and the way

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Speaker 1: she painted forever. Lee and her whole art class rushed

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Speaker 1: back to their.

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Speaker 3: School, stormed into the classroom, tore apart the model's stand

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Speaker 3: that had been set up for them to draw from,

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Speaker 3: and basically declared a revolution. They took the model, and

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Speaker 3: rather than draw a nude model, they put clothing on

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Speaker 3: the model, which injected a sense of modernism to this tradition.

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Speaker 1: Not a big deal, you'd think, but their teacher was

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Speaker 1: not impressed his Lee.

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Speaker 4: On the first day of criticism, our instructor walked in

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Speaker 4: and did about three criticisms, then hurled the brushes of

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Speaker 4: floor and walked out of the room, saying I can't

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Speaker 4: take this class anything.

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Speaker 1: For Lee, there was no going back. She wanted to

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Speaker 1: create the kind of things she'd seen at the moment,

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Speaker 1: but make it her own more American. There was just

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Speaker 1: one big problem.

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Speaker 3: The notion of an American artist just hadn't really taken hold.

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Speaker 3: An artist was an elite, An artist was in most

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Speaker 3: cases European. Anyone who was an artist had other jobs.

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Speaker 3: They worked for companies that had art departments.

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Speaker 1: Like advertising, or they taught art.

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Speaker 3: But no one was actually a full time painter, a

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Speaker 3: full time sculptor.

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Speaker 2: It just wasn't done.

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Speaker 1: It wasn't done because you just couldn't expect to make

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Speaker 1: a living selling your own original art.

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Speaker 2: Those were the men.

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Speaker 3: For the women, it was absolutely not even a possibility

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Speaker 3: because such a thing as a woman artist in the

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Speaker 3: history of art doesn't really exist.

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Speaker 1: There wasn't a single woman in that groundbreaking exhibition Lee

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Speaker 1: went to at the moment, and it would take that

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Speaker 1: same gallery nearly twenty years to dedicate a major show

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Speaker 1: to the life of a female artist, Georgie O'Keeffe in

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Speaker 1: nineteen forty six. Lee had no role models to look

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Speaker 1: up to, let alone anyone willing to push the boundaries

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Speaker 1: like her.

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Speaker 3: For an American woman artist, especially a working class Jewish

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Speaker 3: woman like Lee, Krasner. There was just absolutely no pathway

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Speaker 3: for her to make that happen, and for her to

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Speaker 3: even declare herself an artist or someone who wanted to

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Speaker 3: be an artist was.

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Speaker 2: A laughable dream.

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Speaker 3: The idea of being an artist was really beyond the pale.

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Speaker 1: But something else happened in that momentous year eighteen twenty nine.

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Speaker 6: The tremendous crowds which you see gathered outside the Stock

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Speaker 6: Exchange are due to the greatest crash in the history

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Speaker 6: of the New York Stock Exchange and.

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Speaker 1: Market prices after the break. The story of how the

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Speaker 1: Wall Street crash and the government's response helped create the

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Speaker 1: New American Artist.

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Speaker 3: It was a cataclysm throughout the United States. The suffering

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Speaker 3: was massive. Twenty five percent of banks in the United

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Speaker 3: States folded. Quarter of the population within weeks was out

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Speaker 3: of work. Everything stabbed, the world changed.

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Speaker 1: By spring nineteen thirty two, Lee had dropped out of

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Speaker 1: the academy. She could no longer afford it. Everything she'd

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Speaker 1: been working towards was suddenly up in the air. To

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Speaker 1: make ends meet, she started waiting tables at a dive

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Speaker 1: bar in Greenwich Village, making barely enough to buy art supplies.

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Speaker 1: The whole country was in a pretty state for years,

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Speaker 1: and in nineteen thirty two, presidential candidate Franklin Roosevelt announced

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Speaker 1: his plan to restore America's economy. He called it the

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Speaker 1: New Deal.

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Speaker 6: I say to you now that from this date on,

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Speaker 6: they paint them men mother's doom. I fled myself go

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Speaker 6: a new deal for the American paper, and.

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Speaker 3: The idea was that the federal government would provide a

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Speaker 3: basic salary and existence to get people to work on

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Speaker 3: massive infrastructure projects, anything that could improve the quality of

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Speaker 3: life in the United States, and at the same time

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Speaker 3: get people working.

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Speaker 1: Much to Lee's surprise, Roosevelt said he was going to

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Speaker 1: include artists and put them to work on public projects

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Speaker 1: like painting murals. When Lee heard this news, she quit

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Speaker 1: the dive bar and immediately applied. By January nineteen thirty four,

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Speaker 1: she was drawing fossils for a government funded book on rocks,

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Speaker 1: not to dream exactly, but it paid the bills. Within

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Speaker 1: a few months, the president announced something even bigger, an

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Speaker 1: organization that promised to employ about four thousand artists and

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Speaker 1: give them a weekly stipend. It was called the Federal

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Speaker 1: Art Project, and it was a total game changer.

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Speaker 6: The Federal Art Project is a practical relief project to

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Speaker 6: take care of people who otherwise would start.

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Speaker 3: Artists went from being unpaid undervalued to being recognized as

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Speaker 3: having a contribution to make to society worth investing federal

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Speaker 3: dollars in. And so this immediately elevated artists in the

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Speaker 3: United States took place they had never been before.

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Speaker 1: Lee was about to get a steady paycheck and for

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Speaker 1: the first time, she would be paid the same as

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Speaker 1: her male friends.

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Speaker 3: So Lee Krasner could hold herself high because the federal

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Speaker 3: government told her and her fellow women, you know, we

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Speaker 3: value you, we appreciate your work, and we're going to

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Speaker 3: give you a paycheck to do it. So for the

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Speaker 3: first time, definitely in the history of the United States

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Speaker 3: and possibly in the history of the world, women artists

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Speaker 3: were recognized as having worse equal to their male counterparts,

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Speaker 3: and this was a revolution in every way.

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Speaker 1: Lee worked on murals for schools, government buildings, the local

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Speaker 1: radio station WNYC, and through her work she was meeting

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Speaker 1: more artists than ever before.

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Speaker 3: In their own studios. Under the influence of one another,

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Speaker 3: they started developing a style that was more radical, and

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Speaker 3: they started experimenting.

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Speaker 1: More radical meant less realistic. At this time, the early

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Speaker 1: nineteen thirties, Lee painted a lot of cities, gapes, images

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Speaker 1: of docks or buildings that captured the eerie mood of

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Speaker 1: the Depression, all stark lines and geometric shapes. She was

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Speaker 1: clearly trying to imitate elements of what she saw at

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Speaker 1: the moment, and for the first time, Lee had enough

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Speaker 1: money to really dedicate herself to her own work. She

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Speaker 1: wanted to improve, to be at the cutting edge of

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Speaker 1: it all, and she kept hearing about a new school

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Speaker 1: that had just opened, run by an eccentric European called

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Speaker 1: Hans Hoffmann.

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Speaker 3: A German artist who had been working with Matisse and

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Speaker 3: Picasso before World War One. His school was a temple

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Speaker 3: for all of these artists who wanted to learn how

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Speaker 3: to do the works that they saw in the Museum

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Speaker 3: of Modern Art.

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Speaker 1: And so in nineteen thirty seven, Lee walked into the

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Speaker 1: school on West ninth Street carrying some sketches, sketches that

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Speaker 1: no one beyond her fellow aspiring artists had seen before.

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Speaker 1: Lee knew this school was very selective, and she really

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Speaker 1: wanted to get in. She put on her best game

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Speaker 1: face and strode up to the reception desk.

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Speaker 7: From that ververy second I saw her walk across the studio,

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Speaker 7: I was really.

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Speaker 1: Hotd that's Lillian Kisler, the school's registrar. In an old

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Speaker 1: archive interview.

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Speaker 7: She was dressed in a black blouse, black kite skirt,

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Speaker 7: black net stockings, high heel shoes. Even walking in she

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Speaker 7: had a animal magnetism and energy are kind of arrogance,

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Speaker 7: the commands that makes the waves happen.

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Speaker 1: Lee opened her portfolio and arranged it on Lillian's desk.

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Speaker 1: They were sketches of a nude model, and as.

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Speaker 7: I remember those drawings, they were powerfully black and white.

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Speaker 7: The contrast between the blacks and the whites and the

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Speaker 7: grays were unusually dynamic. It struck me that here was

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Speaker 7: a very original talent. I keep thinking today how extraordinary

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Speaker 7: her work was, even in those days. It was so

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Speaker 7: above all the work that was being done at the school,

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Speaker 7: everyone's work. I found her just a phenomenon that first day,

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Speaker 7: and I still think of her that way.

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Speaker 1: Lee was immediately admitted, and soon she was attending classes.

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Speaker 1: Here's Mary again.

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Speaker 3: When she marched into a studio, Lee pushed her way through,

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Speaker 3: took the best position.

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Speaker 2: In the class.

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Speaker 3: Without any regard for her fellow students. She just simply

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Speaker 3: didn't care. She was there to do her art.

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Speaker 1: Lee would take out how chocolate crayon and confidently strike

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Speaker 1: the page.

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Speaker 2: There was a group of Lee watchers.

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Speaker 3: They literally watched what she created on canvas and how

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Speaker 3: she behaved. That left some grumbling, but others watched with

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Speaker 3: admiration that this young woman in a man's world of

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Speaker 3: painting would take for herself the primary spat in the

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Speaker 3: classroom of the most advanced artist teaching in the United

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Speaker 3: States at that moment.

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Speaker 1: During her time at this school, Lee departed even further

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Speaker 1: away from realism. She was beginning to come up with

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Speaker 1: a new visual language, one that went even further than

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Speaker 1: what she saw at the moment, one that would come

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Speaker 1: to be called abstract art. And before long she would

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Speaker 1: meet an artist who nobody knew, but someone who spoke

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Speaker 1: her secret language, a partner in crime, and together they

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Speaker 1: would change art forever. That's after the break In nineteen

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Speaker 1: forty one, Lee was done with school and was becoming

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Speaker 1: well known as an artist about town. In early November,

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Speaker 1: she bumped into a friend, the curator John Graham, and

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Speaker 1: invited him over to her studio. Just days later, she

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Speaker 1: received a postcard from him. It said that he was

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Speaker 1: preparing for an exhibition of American and French painting and

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Speaker 1: he'd love to show her work. Lee read the note

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00:23:52,859 --> 00:23:58,299
Speaker 1: again and again. As the news sank in, Lee looked

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Speaker 1: at the list of other artists slated to be in

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Speaker 1: the same show, Picasso, Matisse, brack Her Idols, artists who

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Speaker 1: had blown her away at MoMA a decade ago, and

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Speaker 1: now she was going to be in a group show

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Speaker 1: with these guys. Gail Levin, an art historian who befriendedly

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Speaker 1: in her twenties, remembers Lee telling her about this huge moment.

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Speaker 8: She looks at the list of other Americans, and there's

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Speaker 8: a guy she's had never heard of, Jackson Powack.

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Speaker 1: His was the only name Lee didn't recognize, so naturally

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Speaker 1: she was curious.

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Speaker 9: So she asked who he is and was told he

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Speaker 9: lives on Ninth Street, not far away. She's a competent woman,

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Speaker 9: she's a well respected artist, and she wants to know

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Speaker 9: who's this person showing with her that she's never heard of.

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Speaker 1: Lee walked over a few blocks to his studio and

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Speaker 1: climbed up some Rickety steps to the top floor of

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Speaker 1: the tenement building and knocked on the door.

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00:25:06,459 --> 00:25:11,059
Speaker 8: He answers the door, and she says, Hi, I'm Mie Krasner.

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Speaker 8: We're in the same show.

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Speaker 1: Jackson invited her into the cramped department, which he shared

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Speaker 1: with his brother. Kitchen furniture was pushed aside to create

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Speaker 1: space to paint.

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Speaker 9: She actually recognized him from an artist union party in

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Speaker 9: nineteen thirty six, where he'd asked her to dance, but

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Speaker 9: he was drunk. She was a great dancer, and he

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Speaker 9: was stepping all over her feet.

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Speaker 1: This was the party where Lee first met Jackson. It

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Speaker 1: wasn't a very successful encounter.

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Speaker 8: So she didn't have much use for him then. I

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Speaker 8: don't know who he was. But now the situation is different.

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Speaker 8: They're in the same show. So she looks at his

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00:25:53,219 --> 00:25:58,059
Speaker 8: art and she was really stunned by his work. She

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Speaker 8: thought it was really something special.

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00:26:05,939 --> 00:26:10,019
Speaker 1: Lee looked around Jackson's studio and saw paintings covered in

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Speaker 1: slabs of fiery colors and thick raw textures, shapes neither

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Speaker 1: human nor animal, mystical scenes with hints of Mayan and

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Speaker 1: Aztec symbolism. They reminded Lee of what she'd seen at

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Speaker 1: the moment. That first time, she'd described that experience as

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Speaker 1: a bomb going off, and now she had that exact

401
00:26:33,579 --> 00:26:38,499
Speaker 1: same feeling stepping into Jackson's studio. Here's Lee again.

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Speaker 4: The bomb exploded when I saw that first French show.

403
00:26:43,699 --> 00:26:46,539
Speaker 4: The next bomb that had flooded was this incident. When

404
00:26:46,539 --> 00:26:49,459
Speaker 4: I walked into his studio. There were five or six

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Speaker 4: canvases around, and it had the same impact on me.

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Speaker 5: Something blue.

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Speaker 1: At the time, Jackson was twenty nine years old, a

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00:27:00,659 --> 00:27:03,739
Speaker 1: guy who was born on a farm in Wyoming who'd

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00:27:03,779 --> 00:27:08,659
Speaker 1: made it to New York. But apart from that drunken dance,

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00:27:09,019 --> 00:27:10,939
Speaker 1: Lee hadn't seen him around before.

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00:27:11,419 --> 00:27:14,419
Speaker 3: Nobody knew Palack, no one had really seen his work.

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Speaker 1: Lee went home, wanting to see Jackson again.

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Speaker 9: Soon.

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Speaker 1: Just a couple of months later, in January nineteen forty two,

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Speaker 1: when Lee went to the opening of that big group

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Speaker 1: show that they were both in, she took Jackson as

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Speaker 1: her date.

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Speaker 3: And so this shy, good looking young man appeared at

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Speaker 3: this art opening on the arm of a supernova. She

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00:27:47,419 --> 00:27:51,179
Speaker 3: was the tap of the art heap in Manhattan, the

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00:27:51,219 --> 00:27:54,739
Speaker 3: center of the scene. She was almost seen as doing

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00:27:54,779 --> 00:27:57,539
Speaker 3: him a favor by introducing him.

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Speaker 1: Jackson was a certain kind of handsome, but he could

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Speaker 1: hardly afford clothes and usually wore ovals. Many of Lee's

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00:28:05,899 --> 00:28:08,219
Speaker 1: friends mistook him for a janitor.

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Speaker 3: No one had any idea that they were looking at

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Speaker 3: Jackson Powlock, who would be the seminole figure in American

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Speaker 3: art history.

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Speaker 1: That's next time on Death of an Artist. Death of

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Speaker 1: an Artist Krasner and Pollock is produced by Pushkin Industries

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00:28:32,579 --> 00:28:37,379
Speaker 1: and Samasdat Audio. Clem Hitchcock is our producer. Story editing

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00:28:37,659 --> 00:28:43,019
Speaker 1: by Dasherlitz at Sina, Sophie Crane and Karen Schakerji from Pushkin.

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Speaker 1: The executive producer is Jacob Smith from Samasdat Audio. The

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00:28:47,819 --> 00:28:52,939
Speaker 1: executive producers are Dasherlitz at Sina and Joe Sykes. Sound

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00:28:52,939 --> 00:28:57,979
Speaker 1: design by Peregrin Andrews. Original scoring and our theme were

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00:28:58,019 --> 00:29:03,059
Speaker 1: composed by Martin Austwick. Fact checking by Arthur Gompertz, with

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Speaker 1: special thanks to Jacob Weisberg. I'm Katie Hessel. The cap

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Speaker 1: from the theat