WEBVTT - Ep. 45: Ol’ Walter Vs. Sasquatch 0:00:06.440 --> 0:00:08.160 I love fishing, and I want to share my interest 0:00:08.200 --> 0:00:09.520 with that is, but I also don't want to be 0:00:09.560 --> 0:00:13.640 a d bag about it. Step one, insert your favorite 0:00:13.680 --> 0:00:16.800 and tasty as bait into our copper protected spring bowl. 0:00:17.280 --> 0:00:20.560 He started asking me about sasquatch and I was like, okay, 0:00:20.640 --> 0:00:24.720 this is this is really strange. I've heard there's Assenko shortage, 0:00:24.760 --> 0:00:27.480 so all those people probably none of them had a 0:00:27.520 --> 0:00:32.960 foreign troop bier Senko, Good morning to generate anglers. Welcome 0:00:33.000 --> 0:00:36.560 to Bend, the fishing podcast that's connected by contradictions, nourished 0:00:36.600 --> 0:00:40.600 by non sequiturs, booied by buffoonery, and flourishes on flotsam. 0:00:40.800 --> 0:00:46.240 I'm Joe SURMELI mild wealthy, and I can't believe Joe 0:00:46.360 --> 0:00:51.960 actually read that intro. You know, I really should have 0:00:52.040 --> 0:00:55.000 vetted that before we started recording, but I was busy 0:00:55.120 --> 0:00:59.480 this morning. Oh well, now you know, and knowing is 0:00:59.520 --> 0:01:06.400 half the bat battle literations aside, this episode really is 0:01:06.440 --> 0:01:09.440 like a hodgepodge of oddities, much like what you might 0:01:09.520 --> 0:01:11.800 find lodged in the rocks and logs and weed beds 0:01:12.120 --> 0:01:15.080 if you did some snorkeling at your local lakes this summer, 0:01:15.120 --> 0:01:17.680 which I recommend if you've never done that. And it 0:01:17.800 --> 0:01:21.000 got me thinking about a conversation that that we've had 0:01:21.080 --> 0:01:22.959 on and off over the past year between the two 0:01:22.959 --> 0:01:25.479 of us and and also with our buddy Ryan Callahan, 0:01:25.920 --> 0:01:28.480 about the things we throw in the water. And when 0:01:28.520 --> 0:01:32.040 I say we, I don't mean I don't mean the collective, we, 0:01:32.520 --> 0:01:35.720 the the editorial we. I'm not talking about society in 0:01:35.760 --> 0:01:41.600 general and pollution. I'm I mean you and me, anglers, 0:01:41.880 --> 0:01:45.400 people who fish. We got we got this email recently 0:01:45.440 --> 0:01:48.160 from a listener named Jason Keller, who sent us photos 0:01:48.480 --> 0:01:54.600 of a chunk of tire. Rubber tire, yeah, stomach yeah. 0:01:54.720 --> 0:01:58.400 And I think Jason summed up the situation pretty eloquently 0:01:58.720 --> 0:02:01.840 in his message. He out while I was both surprised 0:02:02.120 --> 0:02:05.200 and slightly disturbed to find what appeared to be a 0:02:05.280 --> 0:02:08.280 rubber tire inside a lake trout stomach, it dawned on 0:02:08.400 --> 0:02:11.720 me that I have spent literally my entire life attempting 0:02:11.720 --> 0:02:16.160 to force feed numerous types of aquatic animals every kind 0:02:16.160 --> 0:02:19.400 of plastic, metal or rubber bait that I could think of. 0:02:19.840 --> 0:02:22.440 I could not even begin to count how many plastic 0:02:22.480 --> 0:02:27.359 imitation eggs, swim baits, twister tails, flukes, or other various 0:02:27.360 --> 0:02:30.040 types of imitation bait I have left snagged in the 0:02:30.120 --> 0:02:34.080 rocks or broken off in some fish's mouth. Yeah yeah, 0:02:34.160 --> 0:02:36.240 And I you know, I think that's a perspective that 0:02:36.320 --> 0:02:39.840 anglers we just don't often think about. And I know, 0:02:39.919 --> 0:02:42.400 for me personally, right if I break off on a 0:02:42.480 --> 0:02:45.880 rock pile or whatever, my first thought is just like, God, 0:02:46.000 --> 0:02:49.639 damn it, that was a perfectly good paddle tail. And 0:02:49.680 --> 0:02:52.000 inevitably it's like I've only got two left in bone white, 0:02:52.000 --> 0:02:55.359 which is all that's working today, and it's it's very selfish, 0:02:55.400 --> 0:02:59.480 it's a very selfish reaction. Um, but I rarely give 0:02:59.560 --> 0:03:03.160 much ought to what happens to those rigs once once 0:03:03.200 --> 0:03:05.640 I break them off. I'm just being completely honest, you know, 0:03:06.040 --> 0:03:07.760 Like that's what we've been discussing. That's that's what this 0:03:07.840 --> 0:03:10.720 is all about, right, And I'll say this, even if 0:03:10.840 --> 0:03:13.200 even if I've got a ton of say I've got 0:03:13.240 --> 0:03:14.560 a ton of whatever, but I've got a ton of 0:03:14.560 --> 0:03:16.880 the bone white battle tails that are working and I 0:03:16.919 --> 0:03:19.600 break one off, I'm still annoyed. But I'm annoyed that 0:03:19.639 --> 0:03:22.240 now I have to spend valuable time that I could 0:03:22.280 --> 0:03:26.200 be fishing on re rigging. I'm not thinking about the 0:03:26.240 --> 0:03:28.480 thing that that is now sitting at the bottom of 0:03:28.480 --> 0:03:30.960 the lake. Yes, no, you're exactly right. And we've had 0:03:31.040 --> 0:03:33.960 multiple conversations on this show about removing lures in line 0:03:34.000 --> 0:03:37.040 from trees. Um. We've even talked about there was the 0:03:37.200 --> 0:03:40.040 kid in in Vegas who's got his own like a 0:03:40.080 --> 0:03:43.520 little cottage industry going harvesting the fruits of other anglers, 0:03:43.560 --> 0:03:48.040 misfortunately laziness. Um. But we really haven't gone into the depths, 0:03:48.200 --> 0:03:50.840 so to speak, you know, and for good reason, I think, right, 0:03:50.840 --> 0:03:54.080 because because in many ways this is like, this is 0:03:54.120 --> 0:03:58.040 like one of those dirty little secrets for anglers who 0:03:58.120 --> 0:04:00.200 care about conservation, that the thing that we want to 0:04:00.280 --> 0:04:01.800 hide and don't want to think of, right, Like, it's 0:04:02.480 --> 0:04:05.440 it's a grown up version of whatever illicit things used 0:04:05.480 --> 0:04:07.120 to have hidden under your mattress or at the back 0:04:07.120 --> 0:04:09.960 of your closet when you were a teenager. Right yeah, 0:04:10.200 --> 0:04:11.960 I mean the kids, the kids, they just have to 0:04:11.960 --> 0:04:14.040 worry about what's in their browser history, you know what 0:04:14.120 --> 0:04:17.880 I mean. It's which is which is a shame because like, 0:04:17.880 --> 0:04:21.479 like our sons are not gonna hide anything under the radiator, 0:04:21.600 --> 0:04:24.120 you know what I mean, in their room. They might, 0:04:24.360 --> 0:04:27.640 but it might be different things. I don't know. But 0:04:27.760 --> 0:04:30.839 and those kids, you're the browser history things true, But 0:04:30.920 --> 0:04:33.520 I would venture to guess that those kids today are 0:04:33.560 --> 0:04:36.520 probably just as worried about getting found out even digitally, 0:04:37.440 --> 0:04:40.200 we were. So so I'm gonna I'm gonna stick with 0:04:40.240 --> 0:04:43.760 my analogy. I'm gonna say. I'm gonna say shame is universal, 0:04:43.839 --> 0:04:46.600 and as we get older, the things that shame us, 0:04:46.600 --> 0:04:49.520 they just shift, don't go away. We're still we're still 0:04:49.560 --> 0:04:51.919 dealing with it. I'm I will admit I'm the guy. 0:04:52.480 --> 0:04:54.840 I'm that guy who usually picks up at least a 0:04:54.839 --> 0:04:58.080 few pieces of trash when I go fishing, like like, oh, 0:04:58.160 --> 0:05:00.240 here's a can and a bottle in some plastic, and 0:05:00.279 --> 0:05:02.240 I get to feel all proud of myself about it. 0:05:02.480 --> 0:05:05.280 But only I only get to do that, that that 0:05:05.400 --> 0:05:08.120 high and mighty thing, because I can't see all the 0:05:08.120 --> 0:05:13.479 trash that I personally leave behind, because my litter is underwater. 0:05:14.160 --> 0:05:15.839 It's out of sight, out of mind. So I can 0:05:15.839 --> 0:05:18.320 like hold my little old half rotten can and be like, 0:05:18.440 --> 0:05:21.320 I'm a great person, but I'm still leaving all kinds 0:05:21.360 --> 0:05:23.800 of unnatural materials where they don't belong and as they 0:05:23.800 --> 0:05:28.120 get older, I'm thinking more and more about that. I'll 0:05:28.120 --> 0:05:30.119 tell you what. We'll take a quick pause from from 0:05:30.160 --> 0:05:33.400 from your little trip down Shame Lane. Okay, to remind 0:05:33.400 --> 0:05:35.560 all of you that this podcast is fully outfitted by 0:05:35.560 --> 0:05:39.760 thirteen fishing makers of fine rods, reels and tackle. Indeed, 0:05:39.920 --> 0:05:43.000 indeed it is and and one of the ways bringing 0:05:43.000 --> 0:05:44.640 this back. One of the ways I tried to avoid 0:05:44.680 --> 0:05:47.840 that shame lately is by fishing their jabber Jah square 0:05:47.839 --> 0:05:51.719 bill crank bits. In addition to being very loud and noisy, 0:05:51.720 --> 0:05:55.000 which is cool, another benefit of the square bill design 0:05:55.480 --> 0:05:57.200 is that it deflects off the stumps and rocks and 0:05:57.200 --> 0:06:00.480 logs another cover, so you can you can wrote where 0:06:00.480 --> 0:06:03.200 the fish are with less chance of getting snagged. I've 0:06:03.240 --> 0:06:05.880 been hitting up a few of the secret lakes here lately, 0:06:05.920 --> 0:06:09.080 and I can report the Smalley's approve. Yeah. Like, to 0:06:09.120 --> 0:06:12.160 be honest, I've never been like a huge crank baits guy, 0:06:12.200 --> 0:06:14.440 but those are good. I like those. And best of all, 0:06:14.760 --> 0:06:16.919 even if you do break one off, okay, you won't 0:06:16.920 --> 0:06:19.080 also break the bank replacing it. So even if you 0:06:19.120 --> 0:06:22.760 share miles personal issues with losing lures, you only have 0:06:22.800 --> 0:06:26.360 to deal with with one layer of self hatred. Self 0:06:26.640 --> 0:06:31.640 self hatred might be a little extreme. I'm not like, 0:06:31.960 --> 0:06:35.360 I'm not like carrying a leather strap with me and 0:06:35.360 --> 0:06:43.560 and marking my back with self lash switch. Yeah, but 0:06:43.680 --> 0:06:46.400 thinking about thinking about all of this right, thinking about 0:06:46.400 --> 0:06:50.880 this stuff, it hasn't stopped me from fishing, right, it hasn't. 0:06:50.960 --> 0:06:53.960 It's not like I'm like, I'm so stuck with this 0:06:54.000 --> 0:06:56.680 issue that I can't fish anymore, or that I'm not 0:06:56.720 --> 0:06:59.920 willing to make a cast and a deep cover where 0:07:00.040 --> 0:07:01.520 where the fish ar because I might lose a lure. 0:07:01.520 --> 0:07:04.279 I still play the risk reward game, but I am 0:07:04.320 --> 0:07:07.360 I am more likely to go in after a lure 0:07:08.120 --> 0:07:09.920 then I used to be, even if it's like a 0:07:09.920 --> 0:07:12.560 shitty cheap lure, I don't. I'm not like, well that's 0:07:12.560 --> 0:07:14.160 a cheap one. I'll break it off anymore. And I'm like, 0:07:14.200 --> 0:07:16.880 I don't want to leave that there, or or I'll 0:07:16.920 --> 0:07:18.520 get right on top of it and use one of 0:07:18.560 --> 0:07:22.760 those goofy lure extracting poles no time out, like, and 0:07:22.760 --> 0:07:24.800 that will totally blow a spot. Right. If you do that, 0:07:24.840 --> 0:07:27.520 you're giving up a spot. But I do that more 0:07:27.760 --> 0:07:29.120 than I used to have. Have you ever used one 0:07:29.160 --> 0:07:32.840 of those pole lure extractors. I've never tried one of 0:07:32.840 --> 0:07:35.200 the ones that that's a pole, but I have tried 0:07:35.400 --> 0:07:38.480 um those those kind and there's all different variations UM 0:07:38.560 --> 0:07:41.560 that you slide down your line, you pull your line time. 0:07:41.600 --> 0:07:43.720 I've never got those because if it doesn't work, then 0:07:44.160 --> 0:07:47.640 then you lose the love the extractor to right, that's correct, 0:07:47.760 --> 0:07:49.920 And I would say the ones I had worked about 0:07:49.960 --> 0:07:51.800 thirty percent of the time, and then I just get 0:07:51.800 --> 0:07:55.280 that snag too, and then I would lose uh that 0:07:55.600 --> 0:07:59.080 thing plus the lord. So ye, not something I've had 0:07:59.080 --> 0:08:01.240 on hand. Don't really leaving them like, I don't really 0:08:01.240 --> 0:08:03.520 think they work, but I do think and I do 0:08:03.600 --> 0:08:05.680 think you're concerned is a little misplaced because if if 0:08:05.680 --> 0:08:09.160 I'm being honest, I don't really think hard baits are 0:08:09.240 --> 0:08:13.400 like the big issue. Really. It's soft plastics and lead 0:08:13.640 --> 0:08:17.160 jigheads that are the things I personally think about. Um 0:08:17.200 --> 0:08:19.200 a matter of fact, right, just last week I joined 0:08:19.200 --> 0:08:21.320 a buddy of mine who invited me to partake in 0:08:21.400 --> 0:08:24.440 kind of like a hush hush catfish deal a jig 0:08:24.480 --> 0:08:27.600 bite for flatheads, which I was very fascinated with, and 0:08:27.760 --> 0:08:29.840 the fishing was kind of off that night, which doesn't 0:08:29.880 --> 0:08:32.560 bother me in the least because that's fishing. Um. But 0:08:32.640 --> 0:08:35.920 this spot was shallow and rocky and and super jagged 0:08:36.000 --> 0:08:40.600 rock to like flat crisscross boulder, really jagged rock. And 0:08:40.800 --> 0:08:44.720 I busted off easily twelve jigs in an hour and 0:08:44.720 --> 0:08:47.079 a half, right, and it was it was mad Yeah, 0:08:47.160 --> 0:08:49.880 it was maddening that you were talking about, um how 0:08:49.880 --> 0:08:51.840 you just also pissed when you lose something because now 0:08:51.840 --> 0:08:54.160 you have to retie. So this would be like you 0:08:54.200 --> 0:08:56.480 need a long shock leader and like a really strong 0:08:56.559 --> 0:08:59.680 braid to to lead or not. So I I was 0:08:59.760 --> 0:09:05.400 just absolutely frustrated and maddened. But I started thinking about 0:09:05.520 --> 0:09:09.319 how much lead and plastic must just be in this 0:09:09.520 --> 0:09:13.480 one little niche area in this river, and it's gotta 0:09:13.520 --> 0:09:17.360 be and a half dude, I think I think the 0:09:17.360 --> 0:09:20.000 most retreat because we don't have to go on all 0:09:20.000 --> 0:09:21.960 the details. But you needed like a three quarter or 0:09:21.960 --> 0:09:24.640 one ounce to cast where you needed a cast and 0:09:24.679 --> 0:09:26.720 get where you needed to get for these fish sitting 0:09:26.720 --> 0:09:28.320 on the bottom. So you couldn't throw like a little 0:09:28.320 --> 0:09:30.800 twister tail. It's a big gas flathead. You need a 0:09:30.840 --> 0:09:34.480 strong hook. They're gonna respond to a big plastic twitching 0:09:34.520 --> 0:09:37.080 on the bottom um. And I don't know if it 0:09:37.120 --> 0:09:39.000 was the spot I was in or what it was, 0:09:39.040 --> 0:09:42.439 but I think ten retrieves was the most I got 0:09:42.440 --> 0:09:45.120 out of a lure before I was hopelessly was everybody 0:09:45.120 --> 0:09:51.319 around you? Yes, yes, it's just like you know, kind 0:09:51.320 --> 0:09:54.520 of comes with the territory um. But but contrary because 0:09:54.520 --> 0:09:56.840 I've heard people say this, contrary to what some people think, 0:09:57.520 --> 0:10:00.720 the vast majority of soft plastics don't buy O D grade. 0:10:01.000 --> 0:10:04.600 There's biodegradable ones out there. You have to opt into that. 0:10:04.720 --> 0:10:08.000 You have to opt into that, right, it's not the Yeah, 0:10:08.080 --> 0:10:10.319 the regular ones remain intact in the water for for 0:10:10.400 --> 0:10:13.880 years before breaking down into microplastics. And while fish, I 0:10:13.880 --> 0:10:15.760 don't know, they're probably not gonna eat like a lifeless 0:10:15.840 --> 0:10:19.240 spinner bait or crank bait that's wedged in the rocks, right, 0:10:19.320 --> 0:10:22.720 but no, they very well might eat a sanko or 0:10:22.800 --> 0:10:25.199 like a torn up creature that's that's quivering down on 0:10:25.240 --> 0:10:27.440 the bottom. You know, the current move that around. They 0:10:27.480 --> 0:10:31.320 totally actually make it twitch and the like. Yeah, exactly, 0:10:31.360 --> 0:10:35.360 that's why we purchased them. So, you know, just saying no, 0:10:35.520 --> 0:10:38.679 that definitely happens that. That's that's the thing that that 0:10:38.679 --> 0:10:41.160 that absolutely happens that I'm not I'm not an expert 0:10:41.200 --> 0:10:44.040 on this. I've read about it some, but from what 0:10:44.080 --> 0:10:46.080 I can tell, it seems like it's heartening. Back to 0:10:46.120 --> 0:10:48.200 the first story of the email, it seems like lakers, 0:10:48.400 --> 0:10:51.679 especially like to munch posted out soft plastics, and it's 0:10:51.679 --> 0:10:54.800 probably just because they eat almost anything and they're usually 0:10:54.840 --> 0:10:57.320 cruising around the bottom. But they're not the only ones. 0:10:58.000 --> 0:11:01.680 All kinds of fish have been doc commented eating cast 0:11:01.679 --> 0:11:04.200 off soft plastics. I've read a couple of studies over 0:11:04.240 --> 0:11:07.760 the years about this, and and some of them show 0:11:07.800 --> 0:11:09.920 them those those soft plastics right as they stay in 0:11:09.960 --> 0:11:12.760 the water, they swell up the absorb water, and they 0:11:12.800 --> 0:11:14.319 can swell up so much that they can they can 0:11:14.360 --> 0:11:19.480 actually block fish is digestive tracks, so effectively preventing that 0:11:19.520 --> 0:11:22.360 fish from eating anymore, which is a bad deal. Um, 0:11:22.440 --> 0:11:24.360 so I'm with you. I couldn't agree with you more 0:11:24.360 --> 0:11:26.880 on the soft plastics point. I mean, I hope everybody 0:11:26.880 --> 0:11:30.000 out there already knows. Don't just toss your used soft 0:11:30.040 --> 0:11:33.560 plastics over the side into the water. I know that 0:11:33.679 --> 0:11:35.400 used to be common, but we don't do that anymore, 0:11:35.400 --> 0:11:36.880 and there's there's a good reason, and if you're still 0:11:36.920 --> 0:11:41.280 doing it, please stop. But the the other thing is 0:11:41.320 --> 0:11:44.720 I actually fish, actually fish soft plastic less than I 0:11:44.800 --> 0:11:47.120 used to because of things about this, I still use them. 0:11:47.160 --> 0:11:49.559 It's not like I'm against them. I'm not anti. I 0:11:49.600 --> 0:11:51.680 don't refuse to use them. They're just not my go to. 0:11:51.760 --> 0:11:54.240 If I can get away with something else I do. 0:11:54.640 --> 0:11:57.720 And when and when I fished them, I'm I make 0:11:57.760 --> 0:12:01.160 a couple of changes, like slate changes. I'm quicker to 0:12:01.160 --> 0:12:03.640 to swap out a body if it's starting to get 0:12:03.640 --> 0:12:06.320 shoot up, right, if it's like I don't I used 0:12:06.320 --> 0:12:08.720 to fish the until they fell off, and I don't 0:12:08.760 --> 0:12:11.000 do that anymore, right, And and the other thing I 0:12:11.040 --> 0:12:12.439 do if I if i'm if I'm gonna do a 0:12:12.440 --> 0:12:14.800 wacky rig. I used to think using the O rings 0:12:14.880 --> 0:12:17.800 was stupid and kind of lame, and then I realized 0:12:17.840 --> 0:12:19.600 that you do that because you don't tear up the 0:12:19.640 --> 0:12:21.760 bait and you lose a lot fewer of them. And 0:12:21.800 --> 0:12:25.160 when you use the O rig you just toss out 0:12:25.240 --> 0:12:29.040 less senko. So they're not perfect solutions, but those are 0:12:29.440 --> 0:12:32.240 those are the things that I'm doing to minimize the 0:12:32.280 --> 0:12:36.120 opportunities for my baits to turn into underwater ship and 0:12:36.160 --> 0:12:39.440 I genuinely command all of that, and and similarly, I 0:12:39.480 --> 0:12:42.719 try to avoid losing too many baits. But at the 0:12:42.760 --> 0:12:46.200 same time, soft plastics are my go to, like there, 0:12:46.360 --> 0:12:49.160 there's there's, there's there's no there's no way around that. 0:12:49.240 --> 0:12:51.959 And maybe it makes me like a bad person. I 0:12:52.000 --> 0:12:54.520 don't know, but it's just a fact and just off 0:12:54.600 --> 0:12:57.680 top of my head, like I can't think of anything 0:12:57.760 --> 0:13:01.160 I target, with the exception of maybe like tuna, where 0:13:01.200 --> 0:13:04.040 I could be just as effective if I took soft 0:13:04.080 --> 0:13:08.720 plastics out of the repertoire entirely. And you know, it's 0:13:08.760 --> 0:13:12.240 just that's just how it is. Rubbing is racing, as 0:13:12.320 --> 0:13:15.439 Days of Thunder taught us, and and we're gonna lose them, 0:13:15.480 --> 0:13:18.280 like you're gonna lose some um But as Myles mentioned 0:13:18.559 --> 0:13:21.440 this episode, it's it's gonna be kind of like strapping 0:13:21.480 --> 0:13:24.000 on a mask and scouring the bottom of your local 0:13:24.040 --> 0:13:28.560 city pond. Never know what you're gonna get. And first off, 0:13:28.600 --> 0:13:31.400 we've got smooth Moves where we invite Guide's charter captain, 0:13:31.520 --> 0:13:33.560 shop rats and anyone who makes their living in the 0:13:33.600 --> 0:13:36.199 fishing industry to tell us stories of the most ridiculous 0:13:36.240 --> 0:13:39.520 shit they've experienced on the water. And this week we're 0:13:39.559 --> 0:13:43.080 talking to a mostly retired guide, Joe will Our, about 0:13:43.080 --> 0:13:45.400 a guide trip he ran in Washington that he wishes 0:13:45.440 --> 0:13:55.520 he could forget. Why all right? Today on Smooth Moves, 0:13:55.720 --> 0:13:58.760 we are joined by Joe Willour. Joe, thanks for taking 0:13:58.920 --> 0:14:01.319 time to be here today. Thanks for having me. It's 0:14:01.360 --> 0:14:04.120 great to talk to you guys. Yeah. Man, I I 0:14:04.160 --> 0:14:07.559 don't think we've ever like actually physically met, but we 0:14:07.679 --> 0:14:09.640 run in a lot of the same circles. Like I've 0:14:09.720 --> 0:14:12.800 heard your name just scattered around the guide grape behind 0:14:12.840 --> 0:14:15.040 for I don't know, like ten years or so something 0:14:15.040 --> 0:14:17.560 like that. And and I think I got this right. 0:14:18.000 --> 0:14:21.120 You're from Washington and and that's where that's the area 0:14:21.120 --> 0:14:23.880 where you started your guide career, right, Yeah, that's correct. 0:14:23.960 --> 0:14:27.080 I was really fortunate it uh help me go through college, 0:14:27.120 --> 0:14:31.000 best best college job ever, And then finished up school 0:14:31.680 --> 0:14:34.720 and kept guiding because it's still the best job ever, 0:14:35.080 --> 0:14:37.400 and transitioned out of it a few years ago when 0:14:37.520 --> 0:14:40.200 we found out we're having kids, but still keep a 0:14:40.240 --> 0:14:42.480 little bit of a toe in it because it's uh 0:14:42.640 --> 0:14:45.880 as addicting a thing as I've ever found in my life. Yeah, dude, 0:14:45.920 --> 0:14:48.520 like you're well, now you're in You're in twin Bridges, right, 0:14:48.520 --> 0:14:51.040 You've been in twin Bridges for how long? A dozen years? 0:14:51.720 --> 0:14:55.840 Dozen years? So you're like a unicorn. Seriously, dude, you 0:14:55.840 --> 0:14:58.360 are because you you came you like you came out 0:14:58.400 --> 0:15:02.000 of the fishing industry and you turned into a productive, 0:15:02.200 --> 0:15:05.640 healthy member of society as the executive director for the 0:15:05.640 --> 0:15:10.080 Beaute Local Development Corporation. Like, congratulations, man, nobody nobody does that. 0:15:10.920 --> 0:15:12.960 Thank you. You know, there's a couple there's a couple 0:15:12.960 --> 0:15:15.800 of reasons behind that, and one, uh is my good 0:15:15.800 --> 0:15:18.400 friend Casey Dudley. Him and I would always joke, if 0:15:18.400 --> 0:15:19.600 you want to get to the front of the boat, 0:15:19.560 --> 0:15:21.560 you've got to get out of the middle. And I 0:15:21.600 --> 0:15:25.120 always uh, I mean, I love guiding, but I also 0:15:25.160 --> 0:15:27.520 love the idea of standing in the front and casting 0:15:28.040 --> 0:15:31.240 uh equally as much, honestly, Like I love being able 0:15:31.240 --> 0:15:33.080 to show people the rivers and the cool places we 0:15:33.120 --> 0:15:35.800 get to hang out, but I also love the concept 0:15:35.840 --> 0:15:37.960 of going somewhere I haven't been and actually having the 0:15:38.000 --> 0:15:40.400 rod in my hand. And then from the guiding world, 0:15:40.400 --> 0:15:43.160 they had a really good mentor who really pushed me. 0:15:43.160 --> 0:15:45.760 And he's like, you know, as a fishing guide, you 0:15:45.800 --> 0:15:49.600 have these unbelievable communication skills, Like you've sat in the 0:15:49.680 --> 0:15:51.480 middle of a drift boat and told ceo s from 0:15:51.560 --> 0:15:54.480 companies around the world what to do all day long 0:15:54.600 --> 0:15:57.960 for most of your adult life. Like, that's a fantastic 0:15:58.040 --> 0:16:00.480 skill set for the professional world. So if you can 0:16:00.520 --> 0:16:02.480 find a place to put that to use, you're gonna 0:16:02.560 --> 0:16:04.680 kick ass. And I've been very fortunate to have some 0:16:04.720 --> 0:16:07.480 opportunities to go do that. I was gonna say, I 0:16:07.480 --> 0:16:09.880 was gonna say, Miles, like you come on, man like you, 0:16:10.040 --> 0:16:14.040 You've you've landed well too. As a former guy. Look, 0:16:15.560 --> 0:16:17.320 I'm still in the industry. I didn't I didn't get 0:16:17.320 --> 0:16:19.800 out of But I think I think the way you 0:16:19.840 --> 0:16:22.440 put that is well, said Joe, because like I think 0:16:22.440 --> 0:16:24.000 a lot of guides, all guys, for the most part, 0:16:24.000 --> 0:16:26.280 I had that experience you're talking about, but not all 0:16:26.320 --> 0:16:28.840 that many can articulate it that way and frame it 0:16:28.880 --> 0:16:30.680 that ways and then be able to leverage it into 0:16:30.760 --> 0:16:35.160 something else. So I'd say kudos to that. And the story, whatever, 0:16:35.200 --> 0:16:37.080 this story is. The real reason we've got you here 0:16:37.120 --> 0:16:39.880 is that a mutual friend of ours, Josh Mills. Uh 0:16:39.920 --> 0:16:42.280 he told me. He called me. I was like, ah, well, 0:16:42.320 --> 0:16:44.280 I always got this guy's story would be perfect show. 0:16:44.520 --> 0:16:46.640 And I have not heard. I have not heard the 0:16:46.640 --> 0:16:49.400 whole story. I just got a couple of snippets and 0:16:49.400 --> 0:16:53.840 and I would describe them as tantalizing. So let's just 0:16:53.880 --> 0:16:55.320 do this, man, let's jump in. What do you got 0:16:55.320 --> 0:16:58.320 for the smooth moves? Absolutely? And I want to preface 0:16:58.360 --> 0:17:00.680 it with, as a fishing guy, it's always fun to 0:17:00.680 --> 0:17:03.280 be able to dunk on clients. Like, you know, you 0:17:03.280 --> 0:17:05.400 finish your guide day, you sit around and you drink 0:17:05.400 --> 0:17:07.600 a beer these days of white cloth, which kind of 0:17:07.640 --> 0:17:12.159 fractures my brain, and uh, you know, you talk some 0:17:12.200 --> 0:17:14.359 trash about them. You know, they're going over to the 0:17:14.359 --> 0:17:17.159 bar and they're talking trash about you. Like, man, my 0:17:17.200 --> 0:17:19.200 guide was so hung over this morning. I don't think 0:17:19.200 --> 0:17:21.639 he gave a crap about us catching any fish. So 0:17:21.680 --> 0:17:24.600 it's definitely a mutual thing. But before I dunk on 0:17:24.640 --> 0:17:27.840 this guest, um, I will preface it with I've ran 0:17:27.920 --> 0:17:30.000 a couple of thousand guide trips. The number of clients 0:17:30.000 --> 0:17:32.600 that I would not fish with out of fifteen years 0:17:32.640 --> 0:17:36.760 of guiding is three. I mean, that's it. So the 0:17:36.760 --> 0:17:39.040 folks we get a fish with are fantastic. I've made 0:17:39.040 --> 0:17:42.560 lifelong friends. I've got a tattoo from a fly that 0:17:42.920 --> 0:17:46.359 a client of mine recommended. But there's also a couple 0:17:46.400 --> 0:17:50.000 that definitely deserve to be featured in this And so 0:17:50.720 --> 0:17:52.439 for this story, it goes back to my days on 0:17:52.480 --> 0:17:55.240 the Acama. And if you're familiar with the Akama, it's 0:17:55.280 --> 0:17:58.240 a it's a great fishery, but compared to some of 0:17:58.280 --> 0:18:00.280 the other Western rivers, I mean, it's not the Green 0:18:00.359 --> 0:18:03.400 with ten thousand trout per mile. It's not Upper Madison 0:18:03.480 --> 0:18:06.520 with two foot ground trout swimming around. It's a great river, 0:18:06.640 --> 0:18:09.760 it's a fantastic dry fly river, but it's just not 0:18:10.000 --> 0:18:11.720 it's not the same thing as some of these other 0:18:11.840 --> 0:18:15.240 rivers that fortunately get a fish now. And with this gentleman, 0:18:15.960 --> 0:18:17.520 I knew it was going to be an interesting day 0:18:17.520 --> 0:18:20.880 when he hopped in my truck. The first things out 0:18:20.880 --> 0:18:22.680 of his mouth, and I was driving an old F 0:18:22.800 --> 0:18:26.239 one fifty at the time, was man, this F one 0:18:26.320 --> 0:18:28.880 fifties and and piece of ship. You need to get 0:18:28.920 --> 0:18:33.639 a GMC. And it's like, okay, this is weird. Um 0:18:33.640 --> 0:18:35.920 it's a pick up. It's better than my old explorer 0:18:35.960 --> 0:18:37.600 I had two months ago that blew up on the 0:18:37.600 --> 0:18:39.840 side of the river and I lost my transmission. Like 0:18:40.880 --> 0:18:43.639 it's it's a truck. I don't give a crap. And 0:18:44.560 --> 0:18:46.760 we're going down into the Achma Canyon, which is a 0:18:46.760 --> 0:18:49.080 gorgeous piece of water, and we hadn't even made it 0:18:49.080 --> 0:18:50.800 about a mile from the shop, and he goes, Man, 0:18:50.840 --> 0:18:53.640 this Eastern Washington's the ugliest from piece of shit I've 0:18:53.640 --> 0:18:56.800 ever seen. It's full of nothing. But hillis in rednecks. 0:18:56.840 --> 0:18:59.200 I mean, this is where I grew up, and so 0:18:59.320 --> 0:19:01.160 that I I don't even know that it was strike 0:19:01.240 --> 0:19:02.879 too at that point, but it was like, this is 0:19:02.920 --> 0:19:06.600 gonna be an interesting two days. Um. But I mean 0:19:06.640 --> 0:19:08.280 at the time, you know, I was guiding full time. 0:19:08.320 --> 0:19:10.280 I wasn't in a position to turn away a dime. 0:19:10.359 --> 0:19:12.880 I mean, full time fishing guide. It's like, yeah, great, 0:19:12.880 --> 0:19:15.200 I've got four months to make money and then hopefully 0:19:15.320 --> 0:19:17.240 find something to do in the winter that I can 0:19:17.240 --> 0:19:20.040 pay rent. We get down to the river and we 0:19:20.119 --> 0:19:22.600 launch and there's a big blueing hats blowing up and 0:19:22.800 --> 0:19:25.439 fishing is pretty easy, which the ep mud I was 0:19:25.480 --> 0:19:27.520 fortunate to learn there. It's a challenging river. It makes 0:19:27.560 --> 0:19:30.320 fishing around here in Montana really easy because when you're 0:19:30.320 --> 0:19:32.400 trying to catch one of a thousand trout a mile 0:19:32.440 --> 0:19:34.000 and then you go to four thousand trout a mile, 0:19:34.480 --> 0:19:37.240 it's like shooting fish in a barrel. Touches a couple 0:19:37.200 --> 0:19:40.080 of fish right away, and he goes, man, this river 0:19:40.160 --> 0:19:42.840 is just like the green full of dumb f and trout, 0:19:43.000 --> 0:19:50.000 It's like and so at that point it's like, you know, 0:19:50.920 --> 0:19:53.800 I need this money, but this is gonna be pain 0:19:54.520 --> 0:19:58.639 and fished all day whatever, you know, caught some fish, 0:19:58.720 --> 0:20:01.000 not worried about it. And then the next day is 0:20:01.000 --> 0:20:04.240 where it really got weird. And we're floating along and 0:20:04.280 --> 0:20:07.800 the river blows out from under us, and every river 0:20:07.840 --> 0:20:10.639 in the state blew out that week, I mean Seattle 0:20:10.720 --> 0:20:14.480 to Pullman, everything was toast. And so I've got two 0:20:14.480 --> 0:20:16.440