1 00:00:00,880 --> 00:00:02,920 Speaker 1: Crime Stores with Nancy Grace. 2 00:00:06,440 --> 00:00:12,200 Speaker 2: Hi there, coming on to say, it is day twenty 3 00:00:12,240 --> 00:00:17,799 Speaker 2: four since our mom was taken in the dark of 4 00:00:17,880 --> 00:00:24,439 Speaker 2: night from her bed, and every hour and minute, and 5 00:00:24,560 --> 00:00:29,440 Speaker 2: second and every long night has been agony since then. 6 00:00:30,360 --> 00:00:30,760 Speaker 3: Of. 7 00:00:32,440 --> 00:00:38,040 Speaker 2: Worrying about her, and fearing for her, aching for her, 8 00:00:38,960 --> 00:00:45,440 Speaker 2: and most of all just missing her, missing her. We 9 00:00:45,520 --> 00:00:49,360 Speaker 2: know that millions of you have been praying. So many 10 00:00:49,400 --> 00:00:52,160 Speaker 2: people have been praying, of every faith and no faith 11 00:00:52,200 --> 00:00:56,639 Speaker 2: at all, praying for her return, and we feel those prayers. 12 00:00:58,360 --> 00:01:04,120 Speaker 2: Please keep praying without ceasing. We still believe, We still 13 00:01:04,160 --> 00:01:08,640 Speaker 2: believe in a miracle. We still believe that she can 14 00:01:08,680 --> 00:01:15,480 Speaker 2: come home. Hope against hope, as my sister says, we 15 00:01:15,520 --> 00:01:22,520 Speaker 2: are blowing on the embers of hope. We also know 16 00:01:22,959 --> 00:01:29,880 Speaker 2: that she may be lost, She may already be gone. 17 00:01:30,720 --> 00:01:33,080 Speaker 2: She may have already gone home to the Lord that 18 00:01:33,160 --> 00:01:39,120 Speaker 2: she loves and is dancing in heaven with her mom 19 00:01:39,240 --> 00:01:44,200 Speaker 2: and her dad and with her beloved brother Appears and 20 00:01:44,240 --> 00:01:50,120 Speaker 2: with our Daddy. Yes, and if this is what is 21 00:01:50,200 --> 00:01:53,120 Speaker 2: to be, then we will accept it. 22 00:01:56,440 --> 00:02:00,720 Speaker 3: But we need to know where she is. We need 23 00:02:00,760 --> 00:02:01,559 Speaker 3: her to come home. 24 00:02:04,240 --> 00:02:09,160 Speaker 2: For that reason, we are offering a family reward of 25 00:02:09,240 --> 00:02:15,480 Speaker 2: up to one million dollars for any information that leads 26 00:02:15,560 --> 00:02:20,799 Speaker 2: us to her recovery. All of the information about this 27 00:02:20,880 --> 00:02:26,040 Speaker 2: reward and the details is in the caption below. You 28 00:02:26,080 --> 00:02:29,200 Speaker 2: can call the one hundred tip line. You can be 29 00:02:29,240 --> 00:02:36,440 Speaker 2: anonymous if you want. Someone out there knows something that 30 00:02:36,480 --> 00:02:41,040 Speaker 2: can bring her home. Somebody knows. We are begging you 31 00:02:41,840 --> 00:02:42,960 Speaker 2: to please come forward. 32 00:02:43,040 --> 00:02:45,880 Speaker 3: Now. 33 00:02:47,680 --> 00:02:51,880 Speaker 2: We also know that we are not alone in our loss. 34 00:02:52,880 --> 00:02:57,280 Speaker 2: We know there are millions of families that have suffered 35 00:02:57,360 --> 00:03:02,000 Speaker 2: with this kind of uncertainty, and for that reason, today 36 00:03:03,120 --> 00:03:09,360 Speaker 2: we also are donating five hundred thousand dollars to the 37 00:03:09,480 --> 00:03:13,919 Speaker 2: National Center for Missing and Exploited Children for their work 38 00:03:14,560 --> 00:03:18,160 Speaker 2: and helping families who are coping with loss and actively 39 00:03:18,360 --> 00:03:24,280 Speaker 2: looking for those who are lost. We are hoping that 40 00:03:24,840 --> 00:03:28,360 Speaker 2: the attention that has been given to our mom and 41 00:03:28,440 --> 00:03:32,079 Speaker 2: our family will extend to all the families like ours 42 00:03:32,280 --> 00:03:36,160 Speaker 2: who are in need and need prayers and need support. 43 00:03:38,320 --> 00:03:42,520 Speaker 2: So please, if you hear this message, if you've been 44 00:03:42,520 --> 00:03:45,160 Speaker 2: waiting and you haven't been sure, let this be your 45 00:03:45,200 --> 00:03:49,960 Speaker 2: sign to please come forward, tell what you know and 46 00:03:50,040 --> 00:03:53,920 Speaker 2: help us bring our beloved mom home so that we 47 00:03:53,960 --> 00:04:01,800 Speaker 2: can either celebrate a glorious miraculous homecoming, or celebrate the beautiful, brave, 48 00:04:02,040 --> 00:04:05,400 Speaker 2: and courageous and noble life that she has lived. 49 00:04:07,000 --> 00:04:18,799 Speaker 3: Please be the light in the dark. Thank you, our friend. 50 00:04:19,880 --> 00:04:28,159 Speaker 1: Savannah in a heart breaking plea for help, not just 51 00:04:30,839 --> 00:04:35,040 Speaker 1: combining with her family to offer up to one million 52 00:04:35,440 --> 00:04:41,960 Speaker 1: dollars reward for information leading to her mother, but also 53 00:04:43,720 --> 00:04:49,719 Speaker 1: donating five hundred thousand dollars to the National Center for 54 00:04:49,839 --> 00:04:54,880 Speaker 1: Missing and Exploited Children. And in her pain, her pain, 55 00:04:55,320 --> 00:05:03,719 Speaker 1: her immense pain, she mentions other people that are suffering tonight. 56 00:05:08,200 --> 00:05:15,200 Speaker 1: Whoever knows about Nancy Guthrie's where about, that sees that 57 00:05:15,360 --> 00:05:23,080 Speaker 1: and does not act, must have a heart of stone. 58 00:05:23,400 --> 00:05:30,479 Speaker 1: Savannah Guthrie's mother, Nancy Guthrie missing, Day twenty four of 59 00:05:30,720 --> 00:05:35,960 Speaker 1: agony for the family. Good evening. I'm Nancy Grace. This 60 00:05:36,160 --> 00:05:39,159 Speaker 1: is Crime Stories. I want to thank you for being 61 00:05:39,200 --> 00:05:42,960 Speaker 1: with us. What can we learn from this video? 62 00:05:43,160 --> 00:05:44,839 Speaker 4: How did this person get in? How did they exit? 63 00:05:45,000 --> 00:05:47,960 Speaker 1: I'm wondering if there had to be two people, But 64 00:05:48,080 --> 00:05:49,359 Speaker 1: I think this is going to be the tip of 65 00:05:49,400 --> 00:05:49,920 Speaker 1: the iceberg. 66 00:05:49,960 --> 00:05:50,760 Speaker 4: We're going to see more. 67 00:05:50,839 --> 00:05:52,120 Speaker 5: We're going to have a better idea. 68 00:05:51,880 --> 00:05:53,200 Speaker 4: As to what happened. 69 00:05:57,120 --> 00:05:57,400 Speaker 6: Here. 70 00:05:57,440 --> 00:06:01,240 Speaker 1: At Crime Stories, in conjunction with you. Yes, we read 71 00:06:01,360 --> 00:06:06,880 Speaker 1: every tweet, every Facebook, every Insta have been wondering about 72 00:06:07,400 --> 00:06:11,960 Speaker 1: the two guys, or the two outfits, or the same 73 00:06:12,040 --> 00:06:15,520 Speaker 1: guy with and without a backpack. How did that happen? 74 00:06:15,680 --> 00:06:19,000 Speaker 1: We have speculated, we have discussed it, we have analyzed 75 00:06:19,040 --> 00:06:25,400 Speaker 1: it repeatedly. Why when I'm trying a case, I lead 76 00:06:25,680 --> 00:06:29,600 Speaker 1: with my strongest evidence in opening statements and putting a 77 00:06:29,600 --> 00:06:33,800 Speaker 1: witness up on the stand in closing statements. I hit it, 78 00:06:34,040 --> 00:06:39,520 Speaker 1: hit it, hit it, and quit it. That's almost all 79 00:06:39,600 --> 00:06:42,839 Speaker 1: we have is the video of the porch guy. But 80 00:06:42,960 --> 00:06:49,000 Speaker 1: I guarantee you it's not all that there is. In 81 00:06:49,320 --> 00:06:55,200 Speaker 1: multiple cases, one piece of evidence can reveal so much, 82 00:06:55,400 --> 00:06:59,599 Speaker 1: and that is why everyone is combing over and over 83 00:06:59,760 --> 00:07:04,080 Speaker 1: and over the porch video. Let's see the two guy 84 00:07:04,320 --> 00:07:09,039 Speaker 1: is I still don't think it's two guys, but two guys. 85 00:07:09,120 --> 00:07:14,640 Speaker 1: It was argued specifically originally by Dave Mac two guys, 86 00:07:14,840 --> 00:07:17,760 Speaker 1: one with a back back, one without one, seeing both 87 00:07:17,760 --> 00:07:23,720 Speaker 1: of them seemingly similarly outfitted. But now a new theory 88 00:07:24,200 --> 00:07:30,520 Speaker 1: has emerged. The new theory is that image was from 89 00:07:30,800 --> 00:07:39,280 Speaker 1: an earlier Skulking episode. Okay, Dave Mack joining us Crime 90 00:07:39,320 --> 00:07:46,640 Speaker 1: stories investigative reporter, what do we know? And don't tell 91 00:07:46,680 --> 00:07:50,760 Speaker 1: me what Nanos is saying. Okay, don't care right now 92 00:07:50,800 --> 00:07:52,640 Speaker 1: about that. Just tell me what we know. 93 00:07:53,920 --> 00:07:54,840 Speaker 6: Well, you and Nancy. 94 00:07:54,920 --> 00:07:59,600 Speaker 5: The videos from the front porch are not timestamped, so 95 00:07:59,680 --> 00:08:03,440 Speaker 5: we don't know as the layers of this video are pulled. 96 00:08:03,480 --> 00:08:05,280 Speaker 5: It's kind of like painting on a house, where a 97 00:08:05,320 --> 00:08:08,160 Speaker 5: house gets painted year after year and it has layers 98 00:08:08,200 --> 00:08:08,480 Speaker 5: of paint. 99 00:08:08,600 --> 00:08:10,080 Speaker 6: The same thing is true here with the video. 100 00:08:10,440 --> 00:08:14,040 Speaker 5: They're having to pull back the video layer by layer 101 00:08:14,440 --> 00:08:17,920 Speaker 5: and lightly peeling it apart, and they cannot get a 102 00:08:18,000 --> 00:08:21,680 Speaker 5: time stamp. We don't know the daytime or anything. We 103 00:08:21,800 --> 00:08:24,360 Speaker 5: only know what we're watching in front of us. There 104 00:08:25,080 --> 00:08:29,160 Speaker 5: you see the guy with the gloves and the backpack 105 00:08:29,200 --> 00:08:31,320 Speaker 5: and the gun holster and all that with the weeds. 106 00:08:31,720 --> 00:08:35,200 Speaker 5: The other picture could have come from the same night, 107 00:08:35,559 --> 00:08:39,480 Speaker 5: the same time, or on another day, and that's what 108 00:08:39,840 --> 00:08:44,240 Speaker 5: is being speculated about. We have been watching this since 109 00:08:44,280 --> 00:08:46,360 Speaker 5: the very beginning. Our team in New York had these 110 00:08:46,360 --> 00:08:48,920 Speaker 5: separated early on. It seems like we're the only ones 111 00:08:48,960 --> 00:08:52,320 Speaker 5: that have been paying attention to having two separate looking 112 00:08:53,000 --> 00:08:58,360 Speaker 5: photos of the alleged kidnapper at this point, So everything 113 00:08:58,400 --> 00:09:02,200 Speaker 5: is speculation, Nancy, I could still be right. They could 114 00:09:02,240 --> 00:09:04,800 Speaker 5: be brothers, or it could be the same guy. 115 00:09:05,600 --> 00:09:07,920 Speaker 1: Okay, So now you've thrown in that they're not just 116 00:09:07,960 --> 00:09:09,800 Speaker 1: identically dressed, that they're brothers. 117 00:09:09,880 --> 00:09:10,080 Speaker 7: Okay. 118 00:09:10,080 --> 00:09:20,240 Speaker 1: I don't know how you've deciphered that crime stories with 119 00:09:20,440 --> 00:09:28,280 Speaker 1: Nancy Grace straight out to special guests joining us. You 120 00:09:28,360 --> 00:09:31,720 Speaker 1: know him well now, Scott Iiker. He is a digital 121 00:09:31,800 --> 00:09:35,880 Speaker 1: and forensics expert. Founding member and I say it every 122 00:09:36,040 --> 00:09:40,200 Speaker 1: night because I cannot stress it enough. Founding member of 123 00:09:40,280 --> 00:09:48,120 Speaker 1: the FBI Cellular Analysis Survey Team. What is that anachronism? Cast? 124 00:09:48,600 --> 00:09:53,880 Speaker 1: C ast? What does it mean? They are responsible for 125 00:09:54,040 --> 00:09:57,400 Speaker 1: doing the data dump, getting all the cell phone data 126 00:09:57,559 --> 00:10:02,560 Speaker 1: Wi Fi data that was a in Nancy Guthrie's neighborhood 127 00:10:02,720 --> 00:10:06,719 Speaker 1: at the time she goes missing, and more people are 128 00:10:06,760 --> 00:10:10,839 Speaker 1: amassing it, and then they have other agents analyzing it. 129 00:10:12,400 --> 00:10:17,439 Speaker 1: He is now a precision cellular analysis Scott. Not only 130 00:10:17,480 --> 00:10:22,400 Speaker 1: that homicide in Norfolk, Virginia twelve years Scott, what do 131 00:10:22,520 --> 00:10:25,080 Speaker 1: you make of what Dave Mack just explained. I believe 132 00:10:25,120 --> 00:10:28,880 Speaker 1: he's referring to the scratching process that you first told 133 00:10:28,920 --> 00:10:29,360 Speaker 1: us about. 134 00:10:31,640 --> 00:10:34,160 Speaker 4: Yes, he is referring to the scratching process. 135 00:10:34,200 --> 00:10:37,240 Speaker 8: Now, you remember, initially the sheriff's office said they couldn't 136 00:10:37,280 --> 00:10:39,800 Speaker 8: get the video because the Guthrie's did not have any 137 00:10:39,840 --> 00:10:43,720 Speaker 8: subscription to that Nest camera system at their house. Well, 138 00:10:44,240 --> 00:10:47,199 Speaker 8: Cass kind of came in later on and at their 139 00:10:47,400 --> 00:10:50,680 Speaker 8: sheriff's request, dug into that. And we've had experience dealing 140 00:10:50,720 --> 00:10:53,319 Speaker 8: with Google, and we know Google very well. 141 00:10:53,160 --> 00:10:55,280 Speaker 4: From what are the other things we do. 142 00:10:55,920 --> 00:10:58,120 Speaker 8: We went back to Google and said, hey, look, even 143 00:10:58,160 --> 00:11:02,520 Speaker 8: though it's not being in there's no subscription, and it's 144 00:11:02,559 --> 00:11:06,160 Speaker 8: not on the family's phones, is it hiding somewhere in 145 00:11:06,200 --> 00:11:09,560 Speaker 8: your system? They were able to dig deep into the 146 00:11:09,600 --> 00:11:13,120 Speaker 8: cloud related to the camera at the front door and 147 00:11:13,240 --> 00:11:18,000 Speaker 8: pull this video. The problem was no timestamps, no date stamps. 148 00:11:18,200 --> 00:11:21,480 Speaker 8: So that's where we're running into with this speculation on 149 00:11:21,559 --> 00:11:25,679 Speaker 8: whether this second guy was there days before, hours before, 150 00:11:26,120 --> 00:11:29,560 Speaker 8: or that that other picture is after the guy was 151 00:11:29,600 --> 00:11:31,600 Speaker 8: on the porch with the gun. We just don't know 152 00:11:32,080 --> 00:11:36,559 Speaker 8: when it occurred, so we're making speculation on, you know, 153 00:11:37,160 --> 00:11:38,400 Speaker 8: the sequence of events. 154 00:11:40,400 --> 00:11:46,240 Speaker 1: Okay, let's analyze it both ways. Okay, guys, this is 155 00:11:46,280 --> 00:11:48,080 Speaker 1: what you have to do when you try case you 156 00:11:48,080 --> 00:11:49,720 Speaker 1: have to take a piece of evidence and figure out 157 00:11:49,760 --> 00:11:53,440 Speaker 1: what can I prove, if anything, of what probative or 158 00:11:53,480 --> 00:11:59,240 Speaker 1: evidentiary value is it? Okay, we've got two images. To me, 159 00:12:00,320 --> 00:12:03,160 Speaker 1: sense is it was the same night, So let's go 160 00:12:03,240 --> 00:12:07,640 Speaker 1: with that possibility. If it's the same night, it's either 161 00:12:07,679 --> 00:12:10,920 Speaker 1: two people dressed the same, which is highly doubtful in 162 00:12:10,960 --> 00:12:12,920 Speaker 1: my mind, not to Dave Mack, but in my mind. 163 00:12:13,840 --> 00:12:17,520 Speaker 1: But in one photo he has the backpack and the 164 00:12:17,559 --> 00:12:23,240 Speaker 1: other he doesn't. What does that prove to me? It 165 00:12:23,280 --> 00:12:26,440 Speaker 1: proves he got the backpack from somewhere. Did he have 166 00:12:26,480 --> 00:12:28,880 Speaker 1: a car waiting? Can we get the car on video? 167 00:12:29,240 --> 00:12:32,520 Speaker 1: Is there an accomplice in the car? Also the time, 168 00:12:32,840 --> 00:12:36,760 Speaker 1: did he come up and skulk around earlier and then 169 00:12:36,800 --> 00:12:41,360 Speaker 1: go back and get the backpack because he definitely had 170 00:12:41,400 --> 00:12:45,000 Speaker 1: the backpack when he was entering or trying to enter 171 00:12:45,080 --> 00:12:50,400 Speaker 1: the door and take down the door cam. That tells me, 172 00:12:51,240 --> 00:12:53,480 Speaker 1: think get through everybody. Hey, I'm not your school teacher. 173 00:12:53,600 --> 00:12:53,920 Speaker 6: Jump in. 174 00:12:53,960 --> 00:12:56,680 Speaker 1: If you have an idea, for Pete's sake, you're the 175 00:12:56,679 --> 00:13:01,240 Speaker 1: brain trust. That tells me if this occurred on the 176 00:13:01,280 --> 00:13:07,400 Speaker 1: same night that the backpack photo was second because he 177 00:13:07,559 --> 00:13:12,840 Speaker 1: was entering with the backpack. So he was there skulking 178 00:13:13,679 --> 00:13:18,680 Speaker 1: earlier without the backpack. Okay, Scott, Iker follow it through 179 00:13:18,720 --> 00:13:23,080 Speaker 1: to its logical conclusion. What does that, if anything, tell you? 180 00:13:24,000 --> 00:13:26,920 Speaker 1: We can't just sit here and look at the pictures 181 00:13:27,320 --> 00:13:30,400 Speaker 1: and not figure it out for Pete's sake. So what 182 00:13:30,440 --> 00:13:32,160 Speaker 1: do you glean from that? Iker? 183 00:13:34,160 --> 00:13:36,480 Speaker 8: What I gleaned from that is a little bit different 184 00:13:36,559 --> 00:13:40,600 Speaker 8: than you, Nancy. I see the first time he comes up, 185 00:13:40,640 --> 00:13:44,480 Speaker 8: he's has the backpack, he has the gun, and he 186 00:13:44,520 --> 00:13:45,719 Speaker 8: gets the bush. 187 00:13:46,559 --> 00:13:48,400 Speaker 4: He then gets into the house. 188 00:13:48,440 --> 00:13:52,480 Speaker 8: In my mind, after wearing all that stuff, he's gone 189 00:13:52,640 --> 00:13:56,920 Speaker 8: back out, leaving the backpack in the house. Temporarily, he's 190 00:13:56,920 --> 00:13:59,600 Speaker 8: gone back out, and he's coming back to the doorway 191 00:14:00,040 --> 00:14:02,679 Speaker 8: without the backpack, and they capture him again. 192 00:14:03,040 --> 00:14:05,080 Speaker 4: Because why would you why would he come come with 193 00:14:05,160 --> 00:14:05,599 Speaker 4: them with that? 194 00:14:06,600 --> 00:14:09,840 Speaker 1: He's coming back to the scene. 195 00:14:10,280 --> 00:14:11,840 Speaker 4: What, No, he's coming in and out. 196 00:14:11,840 --> 00:14:16,000 Speaker 8: He's probably either dealing with Nancy and getting her in 197 00:14:16,080 --> 00:14:18,920 Speaker 8: and out and getting his stuff in and out, or 198 00:14:18,960 --> 00:14:22,040 Speaker 8: he's dealing with his accomplice that he's meeting outside and 199 00:14:22,080 --> 00:14:23,080 Speaker 8: coming back and forth. 200 00:14:23,960 --> 00:14:28,440 Speaker 5: Okay, Dave, I think the same thing I I Nancy. 201 00:14:28,440 --> 00:14:29,960 Speaker 6: I'm looking at this a little bit different. 202 00:14:31,040 --> 00:14:36,240 Speaker 1: No, no, no, no, look around. Uh, you're not in 203 00:14:36,320 --> 00:14:39,080 Speaker 1: your den at home watching TV with your children. You're 204 00:14:39,080 --> 00:14:42,560 Speaker 1: on crime stories. You can't say what he said? No, 205 00:14:43,000 --> 00:14:49,120 Speaker 1: have an original thought? What think usc. 206 00:14:50,280 --> 00:14:50,360 Speaker 4: All? 207 00:14:50,440 --> 00:14:50,720 Speaker 6: Right? 208 00:14:50,760 --> 00:14:55,280 Speaker 5: Look, when they reached out to neighbors, investigators reached out 209 00:14:55,320 --> 00:14:59,680 Speaker 5: to neighbors for videotape surveillance film January eleventh, nine p 210 00:15:00,800 --> 00:15:02,800 Speaker 5: This could be the reason right here. 211 00:15:03,000 --> 00:15:04,320 Speaker 6: Maybe they already. 212 00:15:04,000 --> 00:15:06,920 Speaker 5: Knew the suspect had been in the hood looking around 213 00:15:07,120 --> 00:15:09,640 Speaker 5: and on that day and time, they want to see 214 00:15:09,640 --> 00:15:12,000 Speaker 5: if they can find this guy walking in the neighborhood, 215 00:15:12,080 --> 00:15:13,760 Speaker 5: driving his car, what have you. 216 00:15:14,160 --> 00:15:16,240 Speaker 6: But that could have been from that night. 217 00:15:16,360 --> 00:15:19,960 Speaker 5: Again, purely speculation, but it could be the same guy 218 00:15:20,040 --> 00:15:22,800 Speaker 5: on a different night, and that could be the answer 219 00:15:22,880 --> 00:15:26,800 Speaker 5: to the question why do they want video from January eleventh, 220 00:15:26,920 --> 00:15:28,000 Speaker 5: nine pm to midnight? 221 00:15:28,680 --> 00:15:34,119 Speaker 1: That's not pure speculation, Dave Mack, that is an educated opinion. 222 00:15:34,600 --> 00:15:35,760 Speaker 3: There's a big difference. 223 00:15:35,800 --> 00:15:37,880 Speaker 1: You're not just reading the tea leaves or looking at 224 00:15:37,880 --> 00:15:41,920 Speaker 1: a crystal ball. You're applying what you know to the 225 00:15:41,960 --> 00:15:44,680 Speaker 1: facts that you're seeing. And I think that's a very 226 00:15:44,920 --> 00:15:49,800 Speaker 1: good theory. Okay, straight out to doctor Bethany Marshall, We've 227 00:15:49,840 --> 00:15:53,240 Speaker 1: got two routes we can take with these photos. One 228 00:15:53,600 --> 00:15:56,400 Speaker 1: it was from an earlier date when he was skulking around, 229 00:15:56,720 --> 00:16:03,040 Speaker 1: which shows premeditation to the mac it also Bethany Marshall, 230 00:16:03,240 --> 00:16:07,800 Speaker 1: if true, if it is from an earlier date, that 231 00:16:07,880 --> 00:16:11,600 Speaker 1: gives us a bigger window of obtaining evidence. And what 232 00:16:11,640 --> 00:16:13,720 Speaker 1: I mean by that is, if he was there on 233 00:16:13,720 --> 00:16:17,040 Speaker 1: an earlier date, maybe he didn't hide his vehicles so 234 00:16:17,160 --> 00:16:21,920 Speaker 1: well because he was just skulking and casing. Maybe he 235 00:16:23,600 --> 00:16:26,720 Speaker 1: I don't know, walked in front of other cameras. Maybe 236 00:16:26,720 --> 00:16:29,800 Speaker 1: he had a cell phone turned on that evening. It 237 00:16:29,920 --> 00:16:33,480 Speaker 1: could be a wealth of information if it was an 238 00:16:33,640 --> 00:16:37,000 Speaker 1: earlier stakeout, see what I mean. But what does it 239 00:16:37,040 --> 00:16:40,720 Speaker 1: tell you, guys? Doctor Bethany Marshall is renounced psychoanalyst, joining 240 00:16:40,760 --> 00:16:43,400 Speaker 1: us out of Beverly Hills tonight. She's the author of 241 00:16:43,520 --> 00:16:46,520 Speaker 1: deal Breaker. You can see her on Peacock and you 242 00:16:46,560 --> 00:16:50,480 Speaker 1: can find her at doctor Bethanymarshall dot com. She spends 243 00:16:50,480 --> 00:16:55,080 Speaker 1: her life analyzing people's behavior. So what would that mean 244 00:16:55,120 --> 00:16:58,440 Speaker 1: to you? Let's go with Dave's theory if he had 245 00:16:58,520 --> 00:17:01,960 Speaker 1: been there before on an earlier date. 246 00:17:03,200 --> 00:17:05,600 Speaker 9: Well, it tells me first of all that he has 247 00:17:05,640 --> 00:17:09,359 Speaker 9: a preoccupation with Nancy Guthrie. As I've discussed with you before, 248 00:17:09,440 --> 00:17:13,280 Speaker 9: this is somebody who is fascinated by her for some reason. 249 00:17:13,480 --> 00:17:16,880 Speaker 9: Either he's targeted her before he knows he's going to talk. 250 00:17:16,920 --> 00:17:19,639 Speaker 1: He just wants money. 251 00:17:19,680 --> 00:17:21,960 Speaker 9: Well, that's what I mean, like a big payday of 252 00:17:22,000 --> 00:17:25,199 Speaker 9: some sort. And Nancy, there's somebody very odd about his 253 00:17:25,280 --> 00:17:29,320 Speaker 9: body language. I cannot quite put my finger on it. 254 00:17:29,320 --> 00:17:34,159 Speaker 9: It's as if he's nonchalant in some strange way, and 255 00:17:34,200 --> 00:17:37,560 Speaker 9: it makes me as interested in what we're not seeing 256 00:17:37,720 --> 00:17:40,600 Speaker 9: as what we're seeing. What are we not seeing? We're 257 00:17:40,640 --> 00:17:43,639 Speaker 9: not seeing how he's casing the rest of the house, 258 00:17:44,119 --> 00:17:47,560 Speaker 9: We're not seeing what he's doing with that backpack? Does 259 00:17:47,600 --> 00:17:49,840 Speaker 9: he have it on and then he sets it in 260 00:17:49,880 --> 00:17:52,320 Speaker 9: the dirt and then he puts it back on again, 261 00:17:52,520 --> 00:17:55,480 Speaker 9: sets it in the dirt. Is he sending it down, 262 00:17:55,640 --> 00:17:59,880 Speaker 9: opening it, closing it? What does that tell us about evidence? 263 00:18:00,400 --> 00:18:03,960 Speaker 9: What is in that backpack? What about the sloppy gun 264 00:18:04,320 --> 00:18:07,600 Speaker 9: that is just hanging over his crutch. What does he 265 00:18:07,720 --> 00:18:10,160 Speaker 9: actually think he is going to do with that gun? 266 00:18:10,240 --> 00:18:13,720 Speaker 9: Obviously there is nothing but an eighty four year old 267 00:18:13,920 --> 00:18:18,439 Speaker 9: woman in that house. Why does he keep touching it? 268 00:18:18,480 --> 00:18:20,840 Speaker 9: Why does he think he's going to need it? There 269 00:18:20,880 --> 00:18:24,960 Speaker 9: are no police officers around at that time of night. 270 00:18:25,040 --> 00:18:29,640 Speaker 9: So what's the relationship between the gun, chasing the house 271 00:18:30,000 --> 00:18:32,320 Speaker 9: and abducting an eighty four? 272 00:18:32,480 --> 00:18:35,600 Speaker 1: I think I know the answer to that. Bethany, remember 273 00:18:35,760 --> 00:18:40,919 Speaker 1: Richard Allen and del Phi who jacked the gun in 274 00:18:40,960 --> 00:18:44,880 Speaker 1: front of the little girls, Abby and Libby to scare them. 275 00:18:45,440 --> 00:18:50,080 Speaker 1: An idiot that he was didn't realize he jacked out 276 00:18:50,440 --> 00:18:53,840 Speaker 1: a bullet, and that bullet was traced back to that 277 00:18:53,880 --> 00:18:59,520 Speaker 1: gun in his home. It's intimidation technique. But while she 278 00:18:59,640 --> 00:19:03,320 Speaker 1: was talking, Scott Iiker, I had a thought, and I'm 279 00:19:03,320 --> 00:19:06,720 Speaker 1: going to disagree with you, which you know, I enter 280 00:19:06,800 --> 00:19:10,280 Speaker 1: this disagreement with trepidation because you're the cast expert. But 281 00:19:11,600 --> 00:19:18,160 Speaker 1: you said the first trip was going to the door 282 00:19:18,280 --> 00:19:21,600 Speaker 1: cam with the gun on, and then putting all that 283 00:19:21,640 --> 00:19:25,280 Speaker 1: away and coming back in. I disagree. And this is 284 00:19:25,280 --> 00:19:28,800 Speaker 1: why something Bethany just said. I think he had the 285 00:19:28,840 --> 00:19:33,800 Speaker 1: gun for intimidation purposes, and he went in to intimidate 286 00:19:33,880 --> 00:19:38,639 Speaker 1: her and take her out with the gun. And I 287 00:19:38,640 --> 00:19:41,480 Speaker 1: don't think he would have put that gun down as 288 00:19:41,560 --> 00:19:44,520 Speaker 1: long as he was in the middle of the kidnap. 289 00:19:44,800 --> 00:19:48,239 Speaker 1: Just that's food for thought. Just percolate on that, Just 290 00:19:48,320 --> 00:19:53,919 Speaker 1: think about that. Guys. There's two alternatives. One this photo 291 00:19:54,359 --> 00:19:57,679 Speaker 1: was from earlier and it may coincide, as Dave Max said, 292 00:19:58,720 --> 00:20:03,280 Speaker 1: with when the share Garoffs asked for video surveillance from 293 00:20:03,280 --> 00:20:08,639 Speaker 1: everybody's cam around January eleven. Now, remember she was taken 294 00:20:08,720 --> 00:20:12,800 Speaker 1: in their early morning hours Feb one, right, So this 295 00:20:12,960 --> 00:20:16,560 Speaker 1: proves if it was that date, that he had been 296 00:20:16,560 --> 00:20:20,159 Speaker 1: planning this for a long time. And it shifts the paradigm. 297 00:20:20,240 --> 00:20:24,680 Speaker 1: It shifts the investigation as to searching for finding those clothes, 298 00:20:24,800 --> 00:20:27,520 Speaker 1: searching for the purchase of the gun, the holster, the 299 00:20:27,560 --> 00:20:31,800 Speaker 1: ski mask, the whole shebang would move back a month. 300 00:20:32,040 --> 00:20:44,720 Speaker 1: See what I mean Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. And 301 00:20:44,760 --> 00:20:47,600 Speaker 1: I'm also curious, I'll circle back with you Iker on this. 302 00:20:48,200 --> 00:20:52,080 Speaker 1: How do we mind Amazon? If they were if these 303 00:20:52,119 --> 00:20:54,959 Speaker 1: items were all purchased on Amazon, would it be easier 304 00:20:55,000 --> 00:20:56,840 Speaker 1: to do that or to get from a brick and 305 00:20:56,920 --> 00:21:01,119 Speaker 1: mortar a Walmart? Just standing there anyway? And guys, really, 306 00:21:01,440 --> 00:21:04,000 Speaker 1: so many things, so many fragments. That's why you have 307 00:21:04,000 --> 00:21:06,480 Speaker 1: to have a big blackboard to write it all, write 308 00:21:06,480 --> 00:21:09,680 Speaker 1: it on to keep up with it all the gun 309 00:21:09,920 --> 00:21:13,160 Speaker 1: You really think he walked into ye old gun shoppy 310 00:21:13,560 --> 00:21:17,720 Speaker 1: and bought it? No, he probably got it somewhere where 311 00:21:17,760 --> 00:21:20,280 Speaker 1: he would not have to give ID, where it couldn't 312 00:21:20,320 --> 00:21:23,959 Speaker 1: be traced. I don't know somehow at a gun shop 313 00:21:24,280 --> 00:21:29,199 Speaker 1: from a friend, a stolen weapon black market. Don't know that, 314 00:21:30,000 --> 00:21:32,840 Speaker 1: but I guarantee you I think the odds are really 315 00:21:32,880 --> 00:21:35,520 Speaker 1: low that he walked in with his ID and went hey, 316 00:21:35,680 --> 00:21:39,200 Speaker 1: can I buy a gun? I don't think that happened. 317 00:21:39,400 --> 00:21:43,640 Speaker 1: But back to the photos. That's what we're learning tonight. 318 00:21:44,320 --> 00:21:48,400 Speaker 1: Also for those of you just joining us, Savannah Guthrie, 319 00:21:49,040 --> 00:21:55,560 Speaker 1: look at her, exhausted, at her last plea, her last plea, 320 00:21:56,240 --> 00:22:02,200 Speaker 1: the family offering a million dollar reward lord and donating 321 00:22:02,320 --> 00:22:06,639 Speaker 1: five hundred thousand dollars to the National Center for Missing 322 00:22:06,680 --> 00:22:08,080 Speaker 1: and Exploited Children. 323 00:22:08,920 --> 00:22:12,960 Speaker 2: Coming on to say, it is day twenty four since 324 00:22:13,080 --> 00:22:18,040 Speaker 2: our mom was taken in the dark of night from 325 00:22:18,040 --> 00:22:25,280 Speaker 2: her bed, and every hour and minute and second and 326 00:22:25,400 --> 00:22:32,240 Speaker 2: every long night has been agony since then, of worrying 327 00:22:32,480 --> 00:22:38,439 Speaker 2: about her, and fearing for her, aching for her, and 328 00:22:38,480 --> 00:22:40,120 Speaker 2: most of all just missing her. 329 00:22:40,960 --> 00:22:48,120 Speaker 3: Missing her. We know that millions of you have been praying. 330 00:22:48,240 --> 00:22:51,040 Speaker 2: So many people have been praying of every faith and 331 00:22:51,080 --> 00:22:54,840 Speaker 2: no faith at all, praying for her return, and we 332 00:22:54,960 --> 00:23:01,879 Speaker 2: feel those prayers. Please keep praying without ceasing. We still believe, 333 00:23:03,000 --> 00:23:07,760 Speaker 2: We still believe in America, We still believe that she 334 00:23:07,880 --> 00:23:12,200 Speaker 2: can come home. We are an hour of desperation. 335 00:23:13,760 --> 00:23:14,480 Speaker 4: And we need your help. 336 00:23:14,600 --> 00:23:18,600 Speaker 1: What happened? Was this really a kidnapping? Totally terrifying situation. 337 00:23:18,760 --> 00:23:21,080 Speaker 9: You don't know what is real what is fake at 338 00:23:21,119 --> 00:23:21,600 Speaker 9: this point. 339 00:23:21,880 --> 00:23:24,320 Speaker 4: This criminal did mess up somewhere and they will be hot. 340 00:23:27,000 --> 00:23:32,440 Speaker 1: Also another distressing fact coming forward tonight as Savannah Guthrie 341 00:23:32,920 --> 00:23:39,280 Speaker 1: gives an emotional plea just exhausted Haggard begging for help, 342 00:23:39,840 --> 00:23:46,160 Speaker 1: even mentioning that the family has considered that Missus Guthrie 343 00:23:46,720 --> 00:23:52,800 Speaker 1: has passed on, and when she said that, it nearly. 344 00:23:52,600 --> 00:23:53,919 Speaker 3: Broke my heart. 345 00:23:54,760 --> 00:24:02,080 Speaker 1: Quoting Thessalonians pray without ceasing. I'm certainly no biblical scholar, 346 00:24:03,119 --> 00:24:08,199 Speaker 1: but I believe that's that Thessalonians quote pray without ceasing. 347 00:24:10,560 --> 00:24:12,879 Speaker 1: You know, I don't know how anybody can hear that 348 00:24:14,200 --> 00:24:20,080 Speaker 1: and not try to discern the answer about what happened 349 00:24:20,800 --> 00:24:25,959 Speaker 1: to Nancy Gufrie and where she is tonight now I'm 350 00:24:25,960 --> 00:24:29,760 Speaker 1: going to take you to the next fragment of evidence 351 00:24:29,760 --> 00:24:33,520 Speaker 1: we've gotten, and that is a woman screaming heard and 352 00:24:33,600 --> 00:24:36,760 Speaker 1: reported to nine one one around the time that Nancy 353 00:24:36,880 --> 00:24:39,280 Speaker 1: went missing. But I want to finish up with what 354 00:24:39,320 --> 00:24:44,119 Speaker 1: we were talking about Dave Matt regarding the two photos 355 00:24:44,760 --> 00:24:47,800 Speaker 1: the man with a backpack and without a backpack. Haven't 356 00:24:47,840 --> 00:24:53,040 Speaker 1: we heard from either Nanos or Patel regarding that there 357 00:24:53,200 --> 00:24:57,000 Speaker 1: is no evidence, no hard evidence it's from an earlier 358 00:24:57,119 --> 00:25:00,280 Speaker 1: date or is there no. 359 00:25:00,320 --> 00:25:04,800 Speaker 5: We're actually it's all speculation as to win this. This 360 00:25:04,920 --> 00:25:08,680 Speaker 5: photo was taken Nancy, it could be from an earlier date, 361 00:25:08,800 --> 00:25:12,240 Speaker 5: it could be from a minute before. I say they 362 00:25:12,600 --> 00:25:16,360 Speaker 5: investigators have yet to be able to determine it because 363 00:25:16,440 --> 00:25:19,119 Speaker 5: you really get into no timestamp, no date, there's no 364 00:25:19,240 --> 00:25:19,920 Speaker 5: nothing on there. 365 00:25:20,200 --> 00:25:23,320 Speaker 1: Just okay, so they're saying there's nothing to prove or 366 00:25:23,359 --> 00:25:26,399 Speaker 1: disprove the theory. Bottom line, that's a yes, not dirrect, 367 00:25:28,240 --> 00:25:31,280 Speaker 1: got it? Okay. I want to move on to another 368 00:25:31,520 --> 00:25:35,520 Speaker 1: tidbit of information. And you never know how small or 369 00:25:35,560 --> 00:25:39,480 Speaker 1: how large a piece of the puzzle you have. 370 00:25:39,800 --> 00:25:40,119 Speaker 6: Mind. 371 00:25:40,640 --> 00:25:42,560 Speaker 1: I want you to hear this nine to one one call. 372 00:25:42,680 --> 00:25:45,840 Speaker 7: Listen for it's going to be a corbling river so 373 00:25:46,040 --> 00:25:50,240 Speaker 7: close erasing the sew a female out of a vehicle windows, screaming, 374 00:25:51,520 --> 00:25:54,280 Speaker 7: then it went north on an oracle. So the vehicle 375 00:25:54,280 --> 00:25:58,120 Speaker 7: is a dirty or blue Chevy Malibu, no plate ex raised. 376 00:25:58,160 --> 00:26:00,720 Speaker 7: That's the female's hand of the window where all black 377 00:26:01,200 --> 00:26:02,480 Speaker 7: and the door was also open. 378 00:26:03,520 --> 00:26:05,480 Speaker 1: Okay, Dave Matt, that's a shocker. 379 00:26:05,520 --> 00:26:06,680 Speaker 6: What is that? 380 00:26:06,680 --> 00:26:11,160 Speaker 5: That is actually a nine one one dispatch describing a 381 00:26:11,200 --> 00:26:14,200 Speaker 5: caller saying that they're at two one to two o 382 00:26:14,359 --> 00:26:19,359 Speaker 5: four in the morning. A woman is seen being screaming 383 00:26:19,520 --> 00:26:22,400 Speaker 5: for her life out of a window. The door is open, 384 00:26:22,440 --> 00:26:24,520 Speaker 5: it's going down the road. And by the way, this 385 00:26:24,680 --> 00:26:29,080 Speaker 5: takes place about three miles from Nancy Guthrie's home at 386 00:26:29,160 --> 00:26:33,080 Speaker 5: the exact time. We are concerned about Nancy Guthrie's well 387 00:26:33,119 --> 00:26:37,159 Speaker 5: being in that moment, in that minute. That's what's being described. 388 00:26:37,440 --> 00:26:37,680 Speaker 6: Now. 389 00:26:37,720 --> 00:26:40,280 Speaker 5: I don't know about you, but Tucson at two o'clock 390 00:26:40,320 --> 00:26:43,840 Speaker 5: in the morning is crazy, apparently, because this is a. 391 00:26:43,800 --> 00:26:47,480 Speaker 6: Real call, real day and time. I've never heard of 392 00:26:47,520 --> 00:26:49,000 Speaker 6: anything like this in my life. 393 00:26:49,560 --> 00:26:54,480 Speaker 1: Yeah, her pacemaker disconnecting around two twenty eight am. Can 394 00:26:54,520 --> 00:26:57,160 Speaker 1: I hear the nine one one call one more time? 395 00:26:57,200 --> 00:26:57,560 Speaker 3: Please? 396 00:26:58,160 --> 00:27:01,439 Speaker 7: More serve me at Corflin River so close erasing me 397 00:27:01,520 --> 00:27:06,200 Speaker 7: for a female out of a vehicle windows screaming. Then 398 00:27:06,200 --> 00:27:08,800 Speaker 7: it went north on an oracle. So the vehicle with 399 00:27:08,840 --> 00:27:12,320 Speaker 7: a dirt by or blue Chavy Malibu, no plate ex 400 00:27:12,359 --> 00:27:14,800 Speaker 7: raised that the female's hand of the window wearing all 401 00:27:14,880 --> 00:27:17,000 Speaker 7: black and the door was also open. 402 00:27:17,560 --> 00:27:20,600 Speaker 1: Okay, that's what we're learning. And again, Dave mac tell 403 00:27:20,680 --> 00:27:22,200 Speaker 1: us the time that that occurred very. 404 00:27:22,119 --> 00:27:25,600 Speaker 6: Quickly two A one to two O four am. 405 00:27:25,560 --> 00:27:30,360 Speaker 1: Two one to two four am. 406 00:27:30,960 --> 00:27:31,280 Speaker 6: Correct. 407 00:27:32,560 --> 00:27:38,040 Speaker 1: And her pacemaker we believe disconnected around to twenty eight. 408 00:27:38,240 --> 00:27:39,120 Speaker 1: Is that correct? 409 00:27:39,760 --> 00:27:40,720 Speaker 6: Yes, that is the wind. 410 00:27:40,720 --> 00:27:43,639 Speaker 5: The bluetooth no longer connected from her pacemaker to her 411 00:27:43,680 --> 00:27:44,320 Speaker 5: Apple Watch. 412 00:27:45,560 --> 00:27:49,760 Speaker 1: Okay, guys, this is what's happening now. Every piece of 413 00:27:49,760 --> 00:27:54,680 Speaker 1: information is being examined like a Rubik's cube to all 414 00:27:54,720 --> 00:27:59,919 Speaker 1: of you that are sending ideas, tips, photos, surveillance from 415 00:27:59,960 --> 00:28:10,880 Speaker 1: the area. Don't stop, don't stop. We are combing through x, Twitter, Facebook, Insta. 416 00:28:11,680 --> 00:28:16,960 Speaker 1: The reward is now up to one million dollars for 417 00:28:17,080 --> 00:28:21,199 Speaker 1: information leading to the discovery of the whereabouts of Nancy Guthrie. So, 418 00:28:21,320 --> 00:28:23,440 Speaker 1: Dave Matt, what if anything can you tell me about 419 00:28:23,480 --> 00:28:25,560 Speaker 1: the vehicle the woman was in. 420 00:28:26,040 --> 00:28:30,240 Speaker 5: All right, Nancy, it's a dark blue Malibu or Malibu's 421 00:28:30,280 --> 00:28:30,960 Speaker 5: style card. 422 00:28:31,080 --> 00:28:32,399 Speaker 6: That's what's being described. 423 00:28:33,040 --> 00:28:35,320 Speaker 5: When you look at the time period we're talking about 424 00:28:35,400 --> 00:28:39,080 Speaker 5: tua one to two to four am February first, This 425 00:28:39,160 --> 00:28:42,760 Speaker 5: is at the time where we believe the suspect the 426 00:28:42,800 --> 00:28:47,360 Speaker 5: kidnappers are either getting into Nancy Guthrie's home or attempting 427 00:28:47,400 --> 00:28:48,120 Speaker 5: to get in there. 428 00:28:50,280 --> 00:28:53,720 Speaker 6: It just seems awfully suspicious to me that less than. 429 00:28:53,600 --> 00:28:57,320 Speaker 5: Three miles away at the very time you would need 430 00:28:57,360 --> 00:29:00,360 Speaker 5: a get away card to be heading towards on a 431 00:29:00,400 --> 00:29:02,480 Speaker 5: side of parking a car on the street where you 432 00:29:02,520 --> 00:29:05,360 Speaker 5: know it's going to be seen. Let's just say, for 433 00:29:05,400 --> 00:29:08,360 Speaker 5: the sake of argument, Nancy, that somebody was on their 434 00:29:08,440 --> 00:29:12,320 Speaker 5: way to assist in the kidnapping, and somebody in the 435 00:29:12,360 --> 00:29:15,400 Speaker 5: car finds out where are we going? We're going to 436 00:29:15,480 --> 00:29:18,920 Speaker 5: finish this and she panics, freaks out and no we're not, 437 00:29:19,120 --> 00:29:21,600 Speaker 5: starts screaming, bloody murder, Get me out of this car. 438 00:29:21,720 --> 00:29:24,200 Speaker 5: I'm not part of this, you know. That's all I 439 00:29:24,240 --> 00:29:24,760 Speaker 5: can think of. 440 00:29:24,880 --> 00:29:27,400 Speaker 6: Because of the timing, this is obviously planned out. 441 00:29:27,440 --> 00:29:28,720 Speaker 4: This is not your typical crime. 442 00:29:28,880 --> 00:29:30,320 Speaker 3: We haven't had any proof of life. 443 00:29:30,320 --> 00:29:33,000 Speaker 9: We haven't had any follow up communications about any of 444 00:29:33,040 --> 00:29:35,800 Speaker 9: the brands of this could spiral out of control. 445 00:29:35,960 --> 00:29:37,720 Speaker 4: You can't rule anything out in this case. 446 00:29:37,960 --> 00:29:39,800 Speaker 1: This is the hour of desperation. 447 00:29:39,920 --> 00:29:41,480 Speaker 3: We believe our mom is still out there. 448 00:29:41,640 --> 00:29:47,160 Speaker 1: We need your help. Savannah Guthrie issuing a heartbreaking plea, 449 00:29:47,720 --> 00:29:52,920 Speaker 1: the family combined together offering up to one million dollars 450 00:29:53,000 --> 00:29:57,720 Speaker 1: reward for the whereabouts of Nancy Guthrie. They are also 451 00:29:57,960 --> 00:30:01,840 Speaker 1: donating five hundred thousand dollar to the National Center for 452 00:30:01,920 --> 00:30:06,280 Speaker 1: Missing and Exploited Children. This in an effort to find 453 00:30:06,680 --> 00:30:12,760 Speaker 1: their mom, and in her plea, Savannah highlights other missing 454 00:30:12,880 --> 00:30:16,600 Speaker 1: people and touches on the pay that other families are 455 00:30:16,600 --> 00:30:22,960 Speaker 1: suffering tonight. This as other video emerges. Let's see it, 456 00:30:23,800 --> 00:30:26,120 Speaker 1: Dave Matt take a look at this and explain what 457 00:30:26,240 --> 00:30:26,800 Speaker 1: we're seeing. 458 00:30:26,920 --> 00:30:30,080 Speaker 5: Dave, go, this is the same porch guy that we've 459 00:30:30,120 --> 00:30:32,920 Speaker 5: been talking about, but this time it's a different place, 460 00:30:33,000 --> 00:30:36,120 Speaker 5: a different angle, and as you can see, as he's walking, 461 00:30:36,200 --> 00:30:39,600 Speaker 5: he has a very specific gait, a very specific stride. 462 00:30:40,880 --> 00:30:43,760 Speaker 5: Watch as he is walking, he's got something tied around 463 00:30:43,760 --> 00:30:50,520 Speaker 5: his waist. Is that a shirt jacket? This is from again, 464 00:30:50,640 --> 00:30:53,440 Speaker 5: not the same house. We're not talking at the Guthries. 465 00:30:53,480 --> 00:30:56,440 Speaker 5: It's a different place but in the same general area. 466 00:30:56,920 --> 00:31:00,680 Speaker 5: So we've got him walking at night and again see 467 00:31:00,720 --> 00:31:05,280 Speaker 5: there we go a very specific stroll as he's walking. 468 00:31:05,360 --> 00:31:09,680 Speaker 5: It's odd, just odd to be walking at that time. 469 00:31:09,800 --> 00:31:13,120 Speaker 1: Yes, guys, we're getting that because we have been watching 470 00:31:13,160 --> 00:31:17,960 Speaker 1: you from how Tech two on X how Tech two 471 00:31:18,120 --> 00:31:21,240 Speaker 1: on X. Now, Dave, I guess you've gotten your crystal 472 00:31:21,240 --> 00:31:25,120 Speaker 1: ball out yet again, and you can tell me without 473 00:31:25,160 --> 00:31:26,720 Speaker 1: a doubt that that's the same guy that was on 474 00:31:26,800 --> 00:31:28,960 Speaker 1: Nancy Guthrie's porch. Oh, i'd have a field day with 475 00:31:29,000 --> 00:31:31,760 Speaker 1: you on cross but you actually may be right. Where 476 00:31:31,800 --> 00:31:33,120 Speaker 1: are you getting your deduction? 477 00:31:35,400 --> 00:31:36,440 Speaker 6: I'm making it up. 478 00:31:36,520 --> 00:31:40,280 Speaker 5: I'm seeing a guy dressed in very similar outfit to 479 00:31:40,360 --> 00:31:41,440 Speaker 5: the man on camera. 480 00:31:41,720 --> 00:31:43,840 Speaker 1: Did you just say you're making it up? 481 00:31:45,240 --> 00:31:46,600 Speaker 6: Well, I'm looking I'm. 482 00:31:48,000 --> 00:31:49,720 Speaker 1: Did you just say you're making it up? 483 00:31:50,000 --> 00:31:51,960 Speaker 6: Well? Okay, I mean I'm making up that. 484 00:31:52,000 --> 00:31:58,160 Speaker 1: I'm hearing him, mute him, and I'm gonna let him 485 00:31:58,200 --> 00:32:02,200 Speaker 1: think about what he just said, okay. In the meantime, 486 00:32:02,280 --> 00:32:06,200 Speaker 1: while Dave is pondering his future straight out of scott 487 00:32:06,360 --> 00:32:11,360 Speaker 1: icro joining US Digital expert, founding member of Salor analysis 488 00:32:11,360 --> 00:32:14,880 Speaker 1: survey team with the FBI. You have thoughts on that, 489 00:32:14,960 --> 00:32:19,760 Speaker 1: and actually, Dave Matt could very well be right. He 490 00:32:19,840 --> 00:32:22,840 Speaker 1: could be right, but I want to hear your analysis. 491 00:32:23,240 --> 00:32:26,560 Speaker 8: Well, when we're looking at that video there, you can't 492 00:32:26,600 --> 00:32:28,480 Speaker 8: really tell if it's the same guy or not. But 493 00:32:29,120 --> 00:32:33,239 Speaker 8: what I don't know is when was that taken? You know, 494 00:32:33,760 --> 00:32:37,360 Speaker 8: was it close to near Nancy Guthrie's house. I was 495 00:32:37,440 --> 00:32:40,880 Speaker 8: interesting to see after this person walks past the camera 496 00:32:41,000 --> 00:32:43,800 Speaker 8: that a police car comes by, so someone called the 497 00:32:43,840 --> 00:32:46,560 Speaker 8: cops on him and maybe he was identified. Is this 498 00:32:46,600 --> 00:32:49,960 Speaker 8: one of the homeless encampment people that are walking around 499 00:32:50,040 --> 00:32:52,640 Speaker 8: at night that just happened to be passing by this house. 500 00:32:53,320 --> 00:32:56,960 Speaker 8: Either way, the important part is is neighbors or people 501 00:32:57,040 --> 00:33:00,760 Speaker 8: in the area are providing their camera in information to 502 00:33:00,840 --> 00:33:03,800 Speaker 8: the authorities. Hopefully not just on x as you said, 503 00:33:03,840 --> 00:33:06,920 Speaker 8: this gentleman had posted, but they're posted and giving it 504 00:33:06,920 --> 00:33:09,800 Speaker 8: to law enforcement so they can piece it together just 505 00:33:09,840 --> 00:33:11,280 Speaker 8: to see if it's relevant or not. 506 00:33:13,360 --> 00:33:16,240 Speaker 1: Okay, let's see him walk by again. Let me see 507 00:33:16,280 --> 00:33:18,960 Speaker 1: that portion where he is walking by, if you can 508 00:33:19,080 --> 00:33:21,280 Speaker 1: rack it back up there he goes. Look at that. 509 00:33:22,560 --> 00:33:25,000 Speaker 1: Is he wearing a hoodie or is he wearing a 510 00:33:25,040 --> 00:33:28,320 Speaker 1: baseball cap. He definitely has on a backpack with reflective 511 00:33:28,400 --> 00:33:31,120 Speaker 1: lights on it. I can see them and they're on 512 00:33:31,200 --> 00:33:36,040 Speaker 1: the shoulders just like the porch guy is he. Dave Mac, 513 00:33:36,360 --> 00:33:40,840 Speaker 1: you're out, You're off probation. Let's see look at that again, Dave. 514 00:33:40,960 --> 00:33:46,080 Speaker 1: Look at this is the jacket he's got wrapped around 515 00:33:46,120 --> 00:33:49,960 Speaker 1: his waist, the one that he's later wearing in the 516 00:33:50,040 --> 00:33:53,920 Speaker 1: Nancy Guthrie porch video. I mean, you may not be 517 00:33:54,040 --> 00:33:56,720 Speaker 1: half wrong, Dave Matc, but you're you're still on double 518 00:33:56,760 --> 00:34:02,480 Speaker 1: secret probation Mac for saying you made something, But what 519 00:34:02,560 --> 00:34:04,840 Speaker 1: else are you discerning from it? Very quickly? 520 00:34:06,520 --> 00:34:09,120 Speaker 6: No, I was just really trying to point out Nancy. 521 00:34:09,239 --> 00:34:13,359 Speaker 5: When we're looking at this video from the same neighborhood 522 00:34:13,960 --> 00:34:16,400 Speaker 5: at night. As Lacher pointed out, you've got a police 523 00:34:16,440 --> 00:34:21,279 Speaker 5: car actually turning around in the neighborhood. What are the 524 00:34:21,320 --> 00:34:24,279 Speaker 5: odds that we've got multiple people on any night other 525 00:34:24,360 --> 00:34:28,120 Speaker 5: than Halloween walking in a neighborhood at night, dressed up 526 00:34:28,520 --> 00:34:31,040 Speaker 5: in a very similar outfit to the person we see 527 00:34:31,320 --> 00:34:35,600 Speaker 5: later at one forty seven AM or thereabouts on Nancy 528 00:34:35,640 --> 00:34:40,239 Speaker 5: Guthrie's front porch. It just doesn't seem like something that 529 00:34:40,360 --> 00:34:42,640 Speaker 5: is a regular occurrence in most neighbors. 530 00:34:42,640 --> 00:34:47,279 Speaker 1: Pretty low, Dave matt Os, Pretty low. How can it 531 00:34:47,360 --> 00:34:51,799 Speaker 1: possibly be? Day twenty four? Are we any closer to 532 00:34:51,920 --> 00:34:57,200 Speaker 1: finding missus? Nancy Guthrie straight out to doctor Bethany Marshall, 533 00:34:57,280 --> 00:35:00,399 Speaker 1: renowned psycho alas joining us out of Beverly Hills, who 534 00:35:00,440 --> 00:35:05,280 Speaker 1: has devoted hundreds of hours to analyzing this case. Doctor Bethany, 535 00:35:05,760 --> 00:35:09,479 Speaker 1: have you considered a profile of the perp? Yes? 536 00:35:09,560 --> 00:35:12,920 Speaker 9: I have, and not only that, I work with geriatrics, 537 00:35:13,000 --> 00:35:15,920 Speaker 9: which is a term for older people, and the profile 538 00:35:16,440 --> 00:35:20,440 Speaker 9: of a kidnapper who would kidnap an elderly person is 539 00:35:20,719 --> 00:35:24,040 Speaker 9: very specific. It's different from say a kidnapper who would 540 00:35:24,080 --> 00:35:27,960 Speaker 9: kidnap a child or a young adult. This person is 541 00:35:28,160 --> 00:35:32,279 Speaker 9: likely what I would call a dangerous dependent. And what 542 00:35:32,520 --> 00:35:35,120 Speaker 9: I mean by that is this is probably somebody who 543 00:35:35,200 --> 00:35:38,240 Speaker 9: is a low wage earner and does not see themselves 544 00:35:38,280 --> 00:35:42,719 Speaker 9: as responsible for their own lives financially, so they gravitate 545 00:35:42,840 --> 00:35:47,040 Speaker 9: towards work or relationships with senior citizens where they can 546 00:35:47,200 --> 00:35:52,160 Speaker 9: exploit them in very complex ways, say telling them I'm 547 00:35:52,200 --> 00:35:53,799 Speaker 9: going to go to the grocery store and do your 548 00:35:53,800 --> 00:35:56,480 Speaker 9: shopping for you. But then they take extra money for 549 00:35:56,520 --> 00:35:58,839 Speaker 9: themselves or I'm going to do your banking for you, 550 00:35:59,239 --> 00:36:03,000 Speaker 9: but then they deposit extra money into their own accounts. 551 00:36:03,040 --> 00:36:05,560 Speaker 9: So what I would be looking at in this case 552 00:36:05,920 --> 00:36:11,560 Speaker 9: is a kidnapper who works with senior citizens. Not necessarily 553 00:36:11,640 --> 00:36:14,839 Speaker 9: in the Guthrie home because that has not been identified 554 00:36:14,880 --> 00:36:18,279 Speaker 9: by the Sheriff's office, but maybe somebody who works in 555 00:36:18,320 --> 00:36:23,760 Speaker 9: a local, say, caregiving facility, a convalescent home, a skilled 556 00:36:23,880 --> 00:36:28,120 Speaker 9: nursing and who is well versed in how you can 557 00:36:28,200 --> 00:36:32,239 Speaker 9: exploit senior citizens for financial gain. 558 00:36:33,400 --> 00:36:40,319 Speaker 1: Wow, Bethany amazing now joining us, a true expert in 559 00:36:40,360 --> 00:36:44,200 Speaker 1: her field. Susannah Ryan joining us out of Redlands, California, 560 00:36:44,400 --> 00:36:50,319 Speaker 1: LEB director, forensic DNA analyst at Pure Gold Forensics. She's 561 00:36:50,360 --> 00:36:53,719 Speaker 1: a forensic DNA consultant at Ryan Forensics and believe it 562 00:36:53,840 --> 00:36:59,719 Speaker 1: or not, twenty five years in forensic DNA and soerology. Susannah, 563 00:36:59,760 --> 00:37:01,560 Speaker 1: thank you, thank you for being with us. Big question, 564 00:37:02,360 --> 00:37:07,200 Speaker 1: could you, in very rudimentary terms, for everybody that hasn't 565 00:37:07,280 --> 00:37:15,200 Speaker 1: studied or experienced crime lab work, knew DNA was discovered 566 00:37:15,640 --> 00:37:18,400 Speaker 1: in Nancy Guthrie's home when the FEDS came in to 567 00:37:18,520 --> 00:37:21,799 Speaker 1: search that doesn't mean it was just deposited there. It 568 00:37:21,880 --> 00:37:24,799 Speaker 1: means it was newly discovered. The first search did not 569 00:37:25,040 --> 00:37:29,719 Speaker 1: reveal it. So my question is, how will authorities go 570 00:37:29,880 --> 00:37:35,719 Speaker 1: about ruling out every worker, every crime scene investigator that 571 00:37:35,800 --> 00:37:38,960 Speaker 1: had been in the home so we're not subjected to 572 00:37:39,040 --> 00:37:40,960 Speaker 1: claims of cross contamination. 573 00:37:42,840 --> 00:37:45,600 Speaker 10: Well, that can be done pretty simply by getting their 574 00:37:45,680 --> 00:37:49,640 Speaker 10: DNA profile and doing a comparison to any developed DNA 575 00:37:49,800 --> 00:37:52,480 Speaker 10: that we get from that crime scene. And I really 576 00:37:52,520 --> 00:37:54,560 Speaker 10: don't see it as a problem. I think one of 577 00:37:54,560 --> 00:37:57,200 Speaker 10: the things that you mentioned in the past is we 578 00:37:57,239 --> 00:38:00,920 Speaker 10: don't have a suspect yet, so we're not DNA. We 579 00:38:01,000 --> 00:38:04,640 Speaker 10: cannot create a DNA profile. Whatever is on that evidence 580 00:38:04,800 --> 00:38:08,400 Speaker 10: is on there, we don't even have the suspects DNA 581 00:38:08,480 --> 00:38:10,920 Speaker 10: to compare it to. So once we have that, if 582 00:38:10,960 --> 00:38:15,040 Speaker 10: there's a match, we can't no one can say, oh, they, 583 00:38:15,320 --> 00:38:19,200 Speaker 10: you know, somehow planted his DNA. We didn't have his DNA. 584 00:38:19,640 --> 00:38:21,680 Speaker 10: So I really don't see it as a problem. I 585 00:38:21,719 --> 00:38:24,040 Speaker 10: work on cold cases all the time where we have 586 00:38:24,640 --> 00:38:28,120 Speaker 10: DNA that, you know, maybe was collected in the eighties 587 00:38:28,200 --> 00:38:31,200 Speaker 10: or nineties, and we're just getting a profile today. That 588 00:38:31,239 --> 00:38:35,439 Speaker 10: doesn't mean that we somehow created it. It's always been there. 589 00:38:35,680 --> 00:38:39,880 Speaker 10: We're just developing the DNA profile at this time, so 590 00:38:40,040 --> 00:38:40,680 Speaker 10: I don't see. 591 00:38:40,480 --> 00:38:44,160 Speaker 1: It as an at right. You know, while I've got you, Susannah, 592 00:38:44,320 --> 00:38:49,120 Speaker 1: Susanna Ryan, before you go back into your lab, I 593 00:38:49,120 --> 00:38:57,600 Speaker 1: got a question. Nanos stated that the DNA is mixed. 594 00:38:57,960 --> 00:39:01,359 Speaker 1: You and many other labs deal with mixed DNA all 595 00:39:01,520 --> 00:39:06,560 Speaker 1: the time. Yes, it's an obstacle, but it's not insurmountable. 596 00:39:07,160 --> 00:39:11,960 Speaker 1: You have to analyze the DNA, separate the DNA, and 597 00:39:12,000 --> 00:39:15,080 Speaker 1: then try to get a match. How do you separate 598 00:39:15,560 --> 00:39:18,719 Speaker 1: mixed DNA. We're not in Stone Age times. It can 599 00:39:18,800 --> 00:39:20,320 Speaker 1: be done. It's done every day. 600 00:39:20,640 --> 00:39:21,440 Speaker 9: That's true. 601 00:39:21,840 --> 00:39:25,360 Speaker 10: But this is what I think he's talking about is 602 00:39:25,400 --> 00:39:30,880 Speaker 10: genetic genealogy and SNIPS. SNIPS which is single nucleotide polymorphisms, 603 00:39:30,920 --> 00:39:34,680 Speaker 10: so we're looking at single base pair differences, so a 604 00:39:34,719 --> 00:39:39,560 Speaker 10: lot of data. As compared to traditional DNA testing, that's 605 00:39:39,600 --> 00:39:43,319 Speaker 10: a lot more difficult to deal with mixtures. So he 606 00:39:43,360 --> 00:39:45,600 Speaker 10: hasn't come out and said that exactly. I think it's 607 00:39:45,680 --> 00:39:49,000 Speaker 10: kind of lost in translation. But that's my opinion and 608 00:39:49,120 --> 00:39:52,520 Speaker 10: what he's talking about and why he said the technology 609 00:39:52,560 --> 00:39:54,879 Speaker 10: is advancing and in weeks or months or a year, 610 00:39:54,920 --> 00:39:57,000 Speaker 10: we might be able to do something with it. I 611 00:39:57,040 --> 00:40:01,719 Speaker 10: think he's talking about deconvo uting mixtures of snips, where 612 00:40:01,760 --> 00:40:04,360 Speaker 10: we're just not there today. With we can deal with 613 00:40:04,400 --> 00:40:06,680 Speaker 10: a little bit of a mixture. So if you had 614 00:40:06,680 --> 00:40:08,920 Speaker 10: a major if you had a two person mixture and 615 00:40:09,000 --> 00:40:14,600 Speaker 10: the major contributor was the suspect, that could be worked with. 616 00:40:15,200 --> 00:40:18,560 Speaker 10: If the minor contributor is the suspect, they really can't 617 00:40:18,600 --> 00:40:20,760 Speaker 10: do a lot with that right now with snips. 618 00:40:21,000 --> 00:40:24,399 Speaker 1: Well, Susanna Ryan, now I know what everyone wants you 619 00:40:24,840 --> 00:40:28,040 Speaker 1: to testify for. Then you break down very complicated DNA 620 00:40:28,120 --> 00:40:33,200 Speaker 1: issues and make it easy for people like us to understand. Again, everyone, 621 00:40:33,440 --> 00:40:36,600 Speaker 1: if you know or think you know anything about the 622 00:40:36,640 --> 00:40:41,520 Speaker 1: whereabouts of Nancy Guthrie, please dial toll free eight hundred 623 00:40:41,760 --> 00:40:45,600 Speaker 1: two two five five three two four repeat eight hundred 624 00:40:45,680 --> 00:40:48,680 Speaker 1: two two five five three two four, or if you 625 00:40:48,800 --> 00:40:53,520 Speaker 1: wish to remain anonymous five two zero eight eight two 626 00:40:54,040 --> 00:40:58,080 Speaker 1: seven four six three repeat five two zero eight eight 627 00:40:58,120 --> 00:41:02,840 Speaker 1: two seven four six three. The Guthrie family has upped 628 00:41:02,880 --> 00:41:09,319 Speaker 1: the reward to up to one million dollars. If it 629 00:41:09,400 --> 00:41:18,200 Speaker 1: was your mother, would you want someone to come forward tonight? 630 00:41:18,440 --> 00:41:22,279 Speaker 1: We remember an American hero, Deputy Shriff Hunter Ready, just 631 00:41:22,360 --> 00:41:26,520 Speaker 1: twenty seven, shot and killed in the line of duty, 632 00:41:27,120 --> 00:41:33,280 Speaker 1: leaving behind a wife now widow, and three little children. 633 00:41:34,520 --> 00:41:39,839 Speaker 1: American hero Deputy Shriff Hunter Reedy Nancy Gray signing off 634 00:41:40,800 --> 00:41:43,239 Speaker 1: goodbye friend.