Speaker 1: Of the law and Order franchises, SVU is considered especially watchable.
Speaker 2: We are the amateur detectives who kind of investigate the
Speaker 2: vicious felonies.
Speaker 3: These episodes are based on. These are our stories, done.
Speaker 1: Done, Hello, and welcome to That's Messed Up an SVU podcast.
Speaker 3: I'm Kara Klank.
Speaker 2: And I'm Liza Traeger and we are so excited to
Speaker 2: be talking SVU sadly crimes and then also celeb guests,
Speaker 2: and we have so much to discuss up top. Though,
Speaker 2: because Kara went to see Elton John with her friends Dad,
Speaker 2: I don't know everything. Oh it was so good. It
Speaker 2: was so good.
Speaker 1: It's just like a bucket list person I've always wanted
Speaker 1: to go see and I really wanted to see him
Speaker 1: when he was with a Billy Joel in the city
Speaker 1: when I live there and I never got around tw
Speaker 1: it or I remember like asking Jared and he was like,
Speaker 1: no thanks, And I was like doubting our relationship because
Speaker 1: I was like, who would say no thanks to going
Speaker 1: to that concert?
Speaker 3: But he's weird.
Speaker 1: Anyway, I had the best time. I went with three
Speaker 1: of my girls from college. We just had a blast.
Speaker 1: Like it was at the stadium where the padres placed.
Speaker 1: It was very big. They do like they do like
Speaker 1: piano cam on him a lot where all you see
Speaker 1: are like bedazzled sleeves, and then piano was like him
Speaker 1: banging on the keys.
Speaker 3: But it's just hit after hit. I mean, I think
Speaker 3: he sang maybe two songs.
Speaker 1: That I didn't know super well, but like everything else
Speaker 1: is just like the hits, and he has no opening act.
Speaker 3: He goes on at eight o'clock. They're like, don't be late.
Speaker 1: He went on at like eight oh five, I mean
Speaker 1: truly and just starts and putting.
Speaker 2: On a great So do they what time does it
Speaker 2: say on the ticket? And does it say don't be late?
Speaker 2: There's no opener? Come at eight because usually people are
Speaker 2: lates of concerts, Like I wonder if he the doors.
Speaker 1: At six oh door doors at six being your seat
Speaker 1: by eight?
Speaker 2: Elton starts on time and there is no opener. Okay, cool? Yeah,
Speaker 2: Goga didn't have an opener. I remember Madonna didn't have
Speaker 2: an opener. I think Shared did not. No Share had
Speaker 2: some Belgium bands.
Speaker 1: Shared Share maybe when I saw Share had like a
Speaker 1: DJ or something at the beginning, But yeah, I don't
Speaker 1: think it was like an opener.
Speaker 3: They don't need it, So what's the demo? Is it
Speaker 3: like a lot of elderly all over the damn place.
Speaker 1: Like it was a lot of older people, but it
Speaker 1: was like a lot of young people and like our
Speaker 1: age and stuff. It was really all over the place,
Speaker 1: like truly, he's just such a worldwide all ages talent.
Speaker 1: And he was like talking on stage about how he's
Speaker 1: like gonna retire and spend time with his kids, and
Speaker 1: I go, bullshit, I'll believe it when I see it.
Speaker 3: I was like pretty drunk and was like, he's never
Speaker 3: gonna stop. He's not.
Speaker 2: They're all liars, they're all narcissists. They need it for
Speaker 2: tenth farewell tour. You heard share this is just gossip
Speaker 2: about old legends. We could do it like a legends
Speaker 2: gossip minute. Cher is dating this new young man. It
Speaker 2: just came out, this new young guy and he's Amber
Speaker 2: Rose's ex who apparently cheated on her like crazy, So
Speaker 2: I really hope this man doesn't fuck with Cher. I
Speaker 2: mean she'll kill you. Yeah, she'll have you killed. I
Speaker 2: was in New York and I did have a lovely moment.
Speaker 2: I was in a car going over the Willmsbury bridge
Speaker 2: and I just looked to the right and it was
Speaker 2: like a movie. We were in traffic, so it wasn't moving,
Speaker 2: so it was just like the full night like lit
Speaker 2: up skyline, like truly like a fairy on the water.
Speaker 3: The moon was huge.
Speaker 2: And then Kelly Clarkson started playing on the radio, you
Speaker 2: know the like the moment.
Speaker 3: The big hit moment like this.
Speaker 2: Yes, And then a moment like this started playing and
Speaker 2: I was I truly started to cry. I couldn't believe it.
Speaker 2: I was like, this is what this is what I
Speaker 2: live for. I'm like, this is it. And I asked
Speaker 2: him to turn it up, and I just like looked
Speaker 2: at the moon and skyline in the water and I
Speaker 2: was just like, you know what, Kelly, it is.
Speaker 3: This is the moment. It is the moment. No people
Speaker 3: away the lifetime for a moment like this. I love it.
Speaker 2: And it felt really cool. And I did a thing
Speaker 2: for the first time. You know, our friend Yasir Lester
Speaker 2: and his brother made a movie mm hmm. And I
Speaker 2: got to go to like the rough cut screening and
Speaker 2: have a paper and like they ask for notes and stuff.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, I've been to one of those.
Speaker 2: I've never done that I didn't know what was up,
Speaker 2: but it was like a really intimate group in some
Speaker 2: office like little theater space.
Speaker 3: I don't know.
Speaker 2: I felt like it felt cool. I felt like a
Speaker 2: Kerrie bradshop. I deleevely, you know. I gave the notes
Speaker 2: I gave, but I.
Speaker 3: Loved I'm glad they add other people there.
Speaker 1: I would say that they just invited you, and they're
Speaker 1: like it all hinges on what Lisa Trigger thinks of
Speaker 1: this movie.
Speaker 2: I just wish I could be more helpful. But I
Speaker 2: was literally just like amazed someone can make that. Like
Speaker 2: I was just like ten. They're like, I'm like ten, Yes,
Speaker 2: I loved this. They're like, what parts are lagging? Like
Speaker 2: where you know it's a rough cut and they want.
Speaker 3: No notes cut out of ten? Everything rolls. Yeah. I
Speaker 3: was just like this was great. This was great. I
Speaker 3: laughed here.
Speaker 2: And then my other friend who stayed till them, she goes, oh, no,
Speaker 2: people were giving like real helpful notes, and I wish
Speaker 2: I could be that person with them too, but I
Speaker 2: was not.
Speaker 3: Did you see Aaron our friend Aaron? Oh did she
Speaker 3: go in the movie.
Speaker 2: In the movie, Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah, yes, she is
Speaker 2: in the movie. And she is in the beginning and
Speaker 2: very fun. It's great. I was like, oh, cutting room floor. No,
Speaker 2: she's definitely in it. Well, also, Chelsea's in that scene.
Speaker 2: He's he can't cut out in life, but she.
Speaker 3: Said, she goes, I'm not gonna get cut because I'm
Speaker 3: in a scene with his wife.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but it was really good. I don't even know
Speaker 2: how much I can chat since it's such rough abs,
Speaker 2: but just impressive, just impressive the skills people have. And
Speaker 2: it takes I mean years because yeah, it was just
Speaker 2: an impressive, cool moment I feel.
Speaker 1: And as usual, we're in the time machine. So this
Speaker 1: episode will be coming out a couple of days after
Speaker 1: everyone will have done Thanksgiving. Hopefully you're all getting over. Yeah,
Speaker 1: hopefully you'll all be getting over whatever trauma your family
Speaker 1: inflicted on you this past weekend. And are you doing
Speaker 1: BT dubs. I'm I'm home. I'm staying home. I'm having
Speaker 1: so far. One family over that you know that has
Speaker 1: one little kid and then maybe Aaron, who I just
Speaker 1: talked about, but not sure.
Speaker 3: And you're not cooking, I assume, so what are we doing? No?
Speaker 1: No, the other mom is a good cook, Like she's
Speaker 1: gonna do a roast turkey because I don't even eat meat.
Speaker 3: My kids don't eat meat.
Speaker 1: Aaron doesn't either, So like I'm gonna do potatoes, crampberry
Speaker 1: out of a can, and like one other thing, and
Speaker 1: she's gonna do sweet potatoes, green beans and the turkey,
Speaker 1: and so it's like we just like splitting it and
Speaker 1: we're like, let's just not make Oh, I'm gonna do
Speaker 1: a vegetarian stuffing too, because I love stuffing, like stuffing
Speaker 1: fucking rules, but I don't like the kind that's been
Speaker 1: inside the.
Speaker 3: Bird or whatever. Yeah.
Speaker 2: No, I meat and I don't love that. Yeah, Yeah,
Speaker 2: want some normal stuffing. Yeah, So Thanksgiving we'll have come
Speaker 2: and gone, yes.
Speaker 1: And we will actually when this episode airs, we will
Speaker 1: be zipping up our suitcases in anticipation of heading out
Speaker 1: to Orlando. Please come see us tomorrow night, Wednesday, the
Speaker 1: thirtieth of November in Orlando. We're so excited. Then on Thursday,
Speaker 1: we'll be in Tampa. What's up Tampa. We'll be there
Speaker 1: on the first of December, and then we have a
Speaker 1: day off, and then on Saturday, the third, we do
Speaker 1: a little afternoon show at the Miami Improv And that's
Speaker 1: in Miami, So come welcome us to Miami with that
Speaker 1: song from Will Smith, and you know, come see us
Speaker 1: in Florida. And then of course, you know we've got
Speaker 1: more dates in December, Texas, Sacramento, and then all of
Speaker 1: our East Coast dates in January. So go to That's
Speaker 1: messed up live dot com if you have not had
Speaker 1: a chance to buy tickets yet, because some of these
Speaker 1: shows are selling out, So get them, babies, girl.
Speaker 3: I have a question. So I'm on the flight. I'm
Speaker 3: very sleepy this morning, and I'm resting. I'm sleeping.
Speaker 2: You know, I'm sleeping on the flight, but I could
Speaker 2: tell we've landed. You know, I understand what's happening. But
Speaker 2: the guy next to me poked me to wake me up,
Speaker 2: and truly, I don't think i've ever acted. So I
Speaker 2: was like, don't touch me, and he was like, well,
Speaker 2: you were sleeping, and then I grabbed my bags and
Speaker 2: it was still a line. I go, yeah, and now
Speaker 2: like why would you like, why are you touching him?
Speaker 3: He told you to wake you up when the flight landed.
Speaker 2: Yes, that's crazy, and I was so aggressive towards him,
Speaker 2: but it's like, don't touch I get it's not even
Speaker 2: time to leave. It's not like people have passed us,
Speaker 2: like we truly just grounded.
Speaker 3: Like the door wasn't the.
Speaker 1: Way you would have you would have, like all the
Speaker 1: people trying to pull their carry ons out on the top,
Speaker 1: you would have woken up naturally.
Speaker 3: And even if you hadn't, could did he have to
Speaker 3: like get by you or what?
Speaker 4: Yeah?
Speaker 2: I'm always an but like I just hated being poked
Speaker 2: awake by a stranger and I was just and he
Speaker 2: seemed alarmed when I said, don't touch me, but it's like,
Speaker 2: don't And I don't know if I told you this,
Speaker 2: but a couple of weeks ago, stop me if I've
Speaker 2: already talked about it on the pod. I'm sitting out,
Speaker 2: you know, at the cellar whatever. Me and Jared Fried
Speaker 2: are sitting. A guy comes up to us and compliments
Speaker 2: us great. He shakes Jared's hand AND's like, oh, hell, yeah,
Speaker 2: you were funny. Comes to me I'm sitting, hugs me,
Speaker 2: kisses my neck, what goes?
Speaker 3: You were great? Kisses my neck like twice, And I.
Speaker 2: Wish I treated him like I treated this poke guy,
Speaker 2: and I wish him this moment.
Speaker 3: I went like, what are you doing?
Speaker 2: But I was kind of alarmed, and then he walked away,
Speaker 2: and I go, Jared, he just kissed my neck, and
Speaker 2: he goes, wait, I thought you knew him. I assumed
Speaker 2: he the way he hugged you. I thought you knew him.
Speaker 2: I go, I did not know him.
Speaker 1: How to kiss anyone's neck. That's not a sexual. That
Speaker 1: like a neck kissing is purely sexual. There is no
Speaker 1: platonic neck kissing.
Speaker 2: I wish I did something and got him banned or something.
Speaker 2: I just did not act fast enough. And then I
Speaker 2: just looked at him and I go, you don't even
Speaker 2: have to worry about I'm like, no guy would ever
Speaker 2: do this to you, Like, no one would grab you
Speaker 2: and just kiss your neck like that so twisted.
Speaker 1: I mean, famously, a big comedy booker of a festival
Speaker 1: kissed my hand on two different occasions. That is nothing
Speaker 1: compared to your neck. Neck is not okay. Neck is
Speaker 1: not okay. Blown away, And know you have not mentioned
Speaker 1: this on the spot, because I would fucking remember it.
Speaker 1: I'm like, so gross, because it's like, God, neck is
Speaker 1: like basically sex. I mean, to me, someone kissing your
Speaker 1: neck is like you're about to fuck Like.
Speaker 2: I'm sorry, Like I wish I said something, but I
Speaker 2: truly was just like, what.
Speaker 3: What's the guy trying to hit on? You? Do I
Speaker 3: know him? Is that hitting on?
Speaker 5: It matter if you know him, I don't care if
Speaker 5: you gave him a kidney. That is such a weird
Speaker 5: fucking thing to do. That is so fucking weird. Anyway, listen,
Speaker 5: we let's make this a short intro. You are tired
Speaker 5: from traveling. I have to go take my children somewhere,
Speaker 5: so let's let's get this episode started. You have Tricksie
Speaker 5: Mittel's number. I need you to ask her when does
Speaker 5: she sleep? I need to know when she's sleeping. I
Speaker 5: need to know how she's fun.
Speaker 3: Because of the constant because of the constant travel.
Speaker 2: She's busier than me. Is she sleeping? I want to
Speaker 2: know what she's up to. Great question. So if you
Speaker 2: can please.
Speaker 3: Find that out for me, that would be great. Do
Speaker 3: my mess. I'll do my mess.
Speaker 1: And I just wanted to remind you guys about our awesome,
Speaker 1: existing and new merch in our merch store that you
Speaker 1: can find at exactly Rightmedia dot com slash shop. It
Speaker 1: is the holiday season, baby, so go out and get
Speaker 1: some of our cute ass merch. We've got an adorable
Speaker 1: hot pink tank top, a zip up hoodie, and then
Speaker 1: we just added this super cute that's messed up pull
Speaker 1: over sweatshirt that's per bowl like classic purple that we
Speaker 1: talk about all the time on the show, and a
Speaker 1: super fun beanie and we're adding new items as well,
Speaker 1: so keep checking back there. And I just wanted to
Speaker 1: let you guys know to order asap if you want
Speaker 1: stuff in time for Christmas, because December eighth is the
Speaker 1: last day to order with standard shipping for delivery by
Speaker 1: twelve twenty three, So we want to make.
Speaker 3: Sure you guys get your shit in time.
Speaker 1: So yeah, go to the link in our bio on
Speaker 1: our Instagram that has all of our stuff or exactly
Speaker 1: Rightmedia dot com slash shop and you can head to
Speaker 1: the TMU page and check out.
Speaker 3: All of our stuff.
Speaker 1: All right, guys, don't go anywhere, because we have a hot, hot,
Speaker 1: hot episode for you, very requested.
Speaker 2: All right, Secrets of Zooms highly requested, I would say
Speaker 2: highly requested.
Speaker 3: You guys. We've been working on it.
Speaker 2: And we're we got it baby, Season fourteen, episode fourteen.
Speaker 3: You know I love that. I love a little numbers game.
Speaker 2: And we open up in the squad room, Olivia is
Speaker 2: packing up a box and Finn is walking behind her
Speaker 2: with a box and he's just like, I don't want
Speaker 2: to move, and Benson's like it's six feet like could
Speaker 2: you just shut the fuck up? And Craigan's like, new year,
Speaker 2: knew me. I want to shake things up. You guys
Speaker 2: are getting too complacent. But Finn just likes his old
Speaker 2: desk and that's that. And Tomorrow's like, oh, do you
Speaker 2: need a grief counselor I love a joke. I love
Speaker 2: a joke, And usually he's just sat at you know
Speaker 2: about his wife are shooting an unarmed kid.
Speaker 3: But here a joke, So that's great. You don't get
Speaker 3: that much chuckle out of old Nickamarrow.
Speaker 2: And then Finn's like, yeah, easy, you don't have you
Speaker 2: have to move your desk, Like, don't fucking do that.
Speaker 2: And then Munch walks in and he's like, so I'm
Speaker 2: leaving for a few months and you guys are rearranging
Speaker 2: the furniture.
Speaker 3: What's going on?
Speaker 2: And then Craigan's like, oh, looky, here the guy who
Speaker 2: left us for Cold Case. So this was like the
Speaker 2: in between years of Munch where he was like in
Speaker 2: and out or did he leave and come back. I
Speaker 2: tried to look at the dates on IMDb, and I.
Speaker 3: Was like, I can't. I don't have time for that.
Speaker 6: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I wonder if he was just like, I want to
Speaker 1: be in Paris for half the year, so can I
Speaker 1: just like go to a different unit, but I like
Speaker 1: still come back to shoot upisodes here and there.
Speaker 2: I wonder if he works or he's truly munch vibes
Speaker 2: where he's just like, I will never work again, thanks
Speaker 2: for my residuals, and I live cheaply.
Speaker 1: I mean, I don't even know if it has to
Speaker 1: be that cheap. These people must make a ton off residuals.
Speaker 1: It's playing constantly and their main character.
Speaker 3: And they have the good deals.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm sure the new people don't have, like, yeah,
Speaker 2: the amazing deals like everyone else so much has some
Speaker 2: good news though kind of but yeah good there so
Speaker 2: cold case. There was a hit on an unsolved rape
Speaker 2: murder from nineteen eighty seven, the year I was born,
Speaker 2: And he hands the file over to tomorrow and Rollins
Speaker 2: is here too.
Speaker 3: It's a full house. I'm obsessed with this episode.
Speaker 2: So and then for nineteen eighty seven, Rollins goes, that's
Speaker 2: not cold that's frigid.
Speaker 3: Does that count as a joke, I don't know. For Rollins.
Speaker 2: And so then it's Brian Traymore fifty two, and he
Speaker 2: was picked up in Miami on a cocaine pass. They
Speaker 2: took way too long to process the DNA. He's actually
Speaker 2: already served his three months and is being released in
Speaker 2: Florida tomorrow. So Craigan's going to start some extradition papers
Speaker 2: and then Benson and Tomorrow book the next flight to Miami,
Speaker 2: and Finn's like, you know, I can go to Miami and.
Speaker 3: The CA it's so funny.
Speaker 1: He goes cap I really got a feel for the
Speaker 1: scene down there, like it's like, come on, send me.
Speaker 2: But he's making him stay with Rollins, his best SIA
Speaker 2: to work. And so now we're in Miami. It's bright baby,
Speaker 2: and I wonder if this is where Dexter Morgan worked,
Speaker 2: Like I wonder if they hung out.
Speaker 3: I do not think they went on location to Miami.
Speaker 1: I think they went and fat like turned the lights
Speaker 1: on somewhere in Chelsea Peers.
Speaker 3: And now that's what this is.
Speaker 2: Well, I didn't think they go went to Miami. But
Speaker 2: Dexter Morgan's also not a real.
Speaker 1: Man, Oh, I know, but well that's Miami Metro different.
Speaker 1: It's a totally that's a totally fake police department than
Speaker 1: Miami PD.
Speaker 2: Oh so these are so they would not be crossing
Speaker 2: path Yeah, they wouldn't be crossing paths. This was say
Speaker 2: guys Simpson's crossover episode. I was like, Kara, I know
Speaker 2: they didn't go to Miami like you fuck no.
Speaker 1: I think it's funny that, like to portray Miami, they
Speaker 1: probably just went to one of their own sets and
Speaker 1: turned the lights on because like, it's so fucking dark
Speaker 1: everywhere on a CEE.
Speaker 3: You that's so.
Speaker 2: True, and you know, I haven't. I've never seard this
Speaker 2: much time on a set like I have on Michelle's show,
Speaker 2: usually in and out in a day, And it is
Speaker 2: cool to see what the lighting does. No wonder you
Speaker 2: have to wait for lighting, like it is incredible what
Speaker 2: they fucking do with these lights. And they talk in
Speaker 2: a language I don't know. They're like five twenty percent
Speaker 2: sparkle over here, bring the paper, and I'm just like, yeah,
Speaker 2: oh my god, it's the afternoon. Like it is really
Speaker 2: really kind of cool. I took a lighting class in college.
Speaker 2: My teacher's name was blue, just blue.
Speaker 1: And he was like a full hippie man, like so cool,
Speaker 1: and he would just it was it was lighting for theaters,
Speaker 1: so not quite television, but all we would do is
Speaker 1: walk in the woods and he would be like, do
Speaker 1: you see how the light drifts down through that tree?
Speaker 3: Like that's always like I got credit for that. That's great. Class,
Speaker 3: it was great. In high school.
Speaker 2: I took stage craft and you learned like all of
Speaker 2: it and you had to get twenty five hours on
Speaker 2: the crew to get a passing grade.
Speaker 3: And it was just everything. And so we had to
Speaker 3: do a light presentation.
Speaker 2: You pick three colors and then to a song you
Speaker 2: like light yeah.
Speaker 3: Jah wait, you're bringing me back.
Speaker 1: I had to do some kind not to a song,
Speaker 1: but I had to do a presentation too, where I
Speaker 1: was like I had to set the lighting schematic for
Speaker 1: like three scenes or something.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Well, the song I chose, oh was rock San from
Speaker 2: Mulan Rouge. I got the cheating the Tango Tango, so
Speaker 2: it was like Moody and Sexty.
Speaker 1: I love that song. I love that fucking song. It
Speaker 1: slaps like that's one of the best songs on Lulan Rouge.
Speaker 2: But in high school, theater. The boy like the student
Speaker 2: who is really into lighting. Him and his girlfriend would
Speaker 2: fuck up on the route like rafters all the time.
Speaker 3: Of course, yeah yeah, shout out.
Speaker 2: They also though they were gonna get married, which I
Speaker 2: think is I love high school people that are like,
Speaker 2: we're in this forever.
Speaker 3: I just I like that vibe. So Benson's and short sleeves.
Speaker 2: Tomorrow's in a polo to prove, hey, we're in Miami,
Speaker 2: and all of a sudden she hates it. She's like, ugh,
Speaker 2: I hate it, and Amorro's like the sun, the coffee,
Speaker 2: the people, and she goes the heat, the bugs, and
Speaker 2: he's like a Cuban sandwich and she.
Speaker 3: Goes, I hated it. And it's like.
Speaker 2: You're always trying to go on vacation, like you love
Speaker 2: the Bahamas. And then he says it, He's like, well,
Speaker 2: you never complain about the Bahamas. And it's like, why
Speaker 2: does she hate Miami and not the Bahamas? Is it
Speaker 2: that she doesn't love the fucking Bahamas?
Speaker 1: I think also coming to Miami for work, where you
Speaker 1: like have to wear dark jeans and like button up
Speaker 1: like like blouse, maybe that's like more annoying. I kind
Speaker 1: of love that she's just like ride or die New York,
Speaker 1: Like New York is the only cool place to live
Speaker 1: to live.
Speaker 3: No one's making her move there.
Speaker 2: But it's like they had time for a Cuban sandwich
Speaker 2: and a coffee, like you hated it, Like what are
Speaker 2: you talking about?
Speaker 3: I'm just shocked by this.
Speaker 2: Like it's kind of like Sex and the City when
Speaker 2: Miranda goes out with the guy who hasn't left Manhattan
Speaker 2: in a decade and he's proud of it, and it's like,
Speaker 2: you can. I think New York's the best place in
Speaker 2: the world that I've been and I still would love
Speaker 2: to go to Miami. Yeah, which will we We will
Speaker 2: be there. We will be there soon. So a polo
Speaker 2: wearing cop comes in. He's like, what up, guys, we
Speaker 2: got a problem And they're like, wait, Brian Tramer is
Speaker 2: being released today, right, And they're like, yeah, but the
Speaker 2: FBI beat you to the punch and they're so confused.
Speaker 3: We walk over, get me a drum roll.
Speaker 2: It's Agent Dana Lewis aka Star aka Marsha gay Harden,
Speaker 2: friend of the podcast, our first Oscar winner on the show,
Speaker 2: a drag Race fan, and we're happy to see her
Speaker 2: here on her third appearance on SVU as the same character.
Speaker 2: I just gave you a moment if you wanted to
Speaker 2: say something, but I will compete.
Speaker 1: I'm just like, I'm just like still so baffled she
Speaker 1: did our podcast. I'm so excited. It like just makes
Speaker 1: me so happy that she did it, like and off
Speaker 1: right off the bat.
Speaker 2: We were nobody, We were nobody. Yeah we came out
Speaker 2: and us Kate Burry. Yeah we really came out swinging.
Speaker 2: So she has a side part gelled lobun and they
Speaker 2: high five.
Speaker 3: There's some handshake.
Speaker 2: Tomorrow asked what the FBI is interested in with this case,
Speaker 2: and she acts, she answers that he's actually a prime
Speaker 2: suspect for three other rape murders and that it's a
Speaker 2: cereal Sacramento, Philly, Washington into in New York. Tomorrow fights
Speaker 2: for the case and he's like, these aren't even federal charges.
Speaker 2: We want this, and it's like who cares, go swim
Speaker 2: in a pool, have a cocktail, try to fuck Benson, like,
Speaker 2: live your life, eat on her wife, so she should.
Speaker 2: She suggests working together on this, and Benson WARN's nick
Speaker 2: she doesn't actually mean it's a question, and then there's
Speaker 2: a buzzer and Harold Paranow rolls in. He's in a wheelchair,
Speaker 2: and he's very well known for another wheelchair part, which
Speaker 2: is kind of wild because he's he's a walking man,
Speaker 2: I think, But in OZ, he's in a wheelchair the
Speaker 2: whole time and he's the main narrator of OZ. Like
Speaker 2: he is, Yeah, he's like he does little poem riddle.
Speaker 2: So he's in this wheelchair in the glass box in
Speaker 2: the middle of like this prison, and he'll be like,
Speaker 2: riddle me this, riddle me that, what not? And like
Speaker 2: he'll do a little and then the episode starts and
Speaker 2: then something dramatic will happen and he'll be like, don't
Speaker 2: you remember my riddle?
Speaker 3: So yeah, that's like, yeah, what he is in US.
Speaker 1: I know him from many things. He's very prolific, but
Speaker 1: I love him from clause. He plays Nisi Nash's brother
Speaker 1: on clause and he's like, I don't know if they
Speaker 1: specifically say if he's like neurodiverse or on the autism
Speaker 1: spectrum or what, but that's who he plays.
Speaker 3: I don't know if that's maybe.
Speaker 1: I'm sure people will write and tell me, but like,
Speaker 1: I don't know if that's maybe controversial now that you
Speaker 1: would want to have somebody who's actually neurodiverse play that part.
Speaker 1: But he I thought he gave it like he didn't
Speaker 1: play it like a cartoon character, and that show is
Speaker 1: so cartoony, Like he played it really real, and I
Speaker 1: really like loved his portrayal.
Speaker 2: I thought he was great good. Yeah, I heard nothing.
Speaker 2: I got to watch clause.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's it's off the phone and walls. It's so good.
Speaker 2: So Amaro, Benson and Lewis are all surprised. He's in
Speaker 2: a wheelchair and they let him know that, you know,
Speaker 2: we have a warrant for your arrest, and he's obviously
Speaker 2: sad about it, with an emotional rollercoaster. He just wanted
Speaker 2: to do a little bit of coke and now he's
Speaker 2: caught for like decades old crimes and they fill him
Speaker 2: in that it's rape and murder and it's finally caught
Speaker 2: up to you, and he's super confused and looking at
Speaker 2: the court papers and Lewis grabs the chair and starts
Speaker 2: pushing him off as the credits start to roll. Now
Speaker 2: we open back up on a corkboard in the squad room.
Speaker 2: He was paralyzed from the waist down in a bus
Speaker 2: accident in April nineteen eighty eight, three months after his
Speaker 2: last suspected attack. Finn asks if we're sure he's guilty
Speaker 2: of all five and Danea is like, yeah, it's the
Speaker 2: same pattern. All women rapes tied up, strangled with athletic tape.
Speaker 2: He wore latex gloves and stuffed them in the women's mouth.
Speaker 2: He was an assistant equipment manager for the Atlanta Barons
Speaker 2: baseball team between eighty six and eighty eight, and away
Speaker 2: game schedule puts him in every single city at the
Speaker 2: time of these murders. Rollins then asked, it's like how
Speaker 2: they got so lucky with the DNA, since back in
Speaker 2: the day they didn't always collect that stuff. So it's
Speaker 2: much as time to shine and he has all the answers.
Speaker 2: So it came from a cold case in Sacramento, and
Speaker 2: then the New York ran the DNA from the rape
Speaker 2: kits ten years ago, but there were no hits, and
Speaker 2: so Brian got caught up and arrested with this cocaine
Speaker 2: charge in Miami, and they assumed like he hasn't been
Speaker 2: committing crimes all this time, just because he's in the chair,
Speaker 2: and he would have been like out there raping if
Speaker 2: he could. Teresa Gray is Teresa Gray is a Sacramento victim,
Speaker 2: and Gina Mantos the first New York victim, and then
Speaker 2: Dana Lewis says they're reaching out to other cities to expedite,
Speaker 2: and Craig is like, let's get a confession, and we're
Speaker 2: lucky he waved his right to counsel, and Benson wants
Speaker 2: in there with Nick, and Craigan's gonna allow dand Lewis
Speaker 2: to watch. Rollins gets a ping on her phone and
Speaker 2: is like, hold up, we got a break. Is Gina's
Speaker 2: former roommate. They found her, So we go to Williamsburg
Speaker 2: Hospital and our girl is a medical professional. Everyone's in
Speaker 2: winterwear and Rollins has like expert scarf tying around her neck.
Speaker 2: She gives us the goods that her friend Gina was
Speaker 2: a slut and she like theirs more than the sport,
Speaker 2: but was always at sporting events trying to smash and
Speaker 2: she wanted to meet Michael Jordan and they ask if
Speaker 2: she can help idea suspect and she's like that was
Speaker 2: so long ago, and they're like please, and she's like okay,
Speaker 2: so she gets she goes through the photos on an iPad,
Speaker 2: and when it gets to Harold, she goes, maybe, Okay,
Speaker 2: he looked right past me. I remember him sports bar
Speaker 2: a couple months before the girl was killed.
Speaker 3: Like, can I just stop for a second.
Speaker 1: I don't remember people I've like had sex with ten
Speaker 1: years ago, let alone a guy that maybe looked past
Speaker 1: me at a sports bar fifteen years ago. I mean, like,
Speaker 1: maybe I just can't with some of the identifications of people.
Speaker 2: Maybe she thought he was hot and she was pale,
Speaker 2: like she was jealous of Gina. So like, yeah, you know,
Speaker 2: he worked for the team, but like Gina, she was jealous.
Speaker 3: She says it, She's jealous of Gina.
Speaker 2: Guys didn't look at her, only at her friend and
Speaker 2: people paid her oh, and that her parents paid her
Speaker 2: rent and like she was poor. So maybe it was
Speaker 2: like a really traumatic evening at the bar where no
Speaker 2: one wanted to fuck her.
Speaker 3: I don't know.
Speaker 2: So then she walked in and found her and it
Speaker 2: was horrible and all of a sudden or was she happy,
Speaker 2: we don't know.
Speaker 3: So the photo I guess not. But she learned a
Speaker 3: lesson that day.
Speaker 2: So the photo of Gina's thrown onto the table in interrogation,
Speaker 2: and they're like, you remember her, Benson says, and he's like,
Speaker 2: Gina doesn't ring a bell, but she's cute. And he
Speaker 2: says he doesn't remember her any or know anything about her.
Speaker 2: And they let him know that the roommate I d'd him,
Speaker 2: and he's like, it was the eighties, sweetheart.
Speaker 3: You know how many women I talked to in the eighties.
Speaker 2: And she's like, yep, you treat women like games, lure
Speaker 2: them in, tell them you're some big deal.
Speaker 3: And he's like, I never lied about my job.
Speaker 2: And then tomorrow needs to dunk on this guy more
Speaker 2: and he's like sure, but they didn't actually want to
Speaker 2: hang out with you. They wanted to meet the players,
Speaker 2: not the equipment guy. Oh, and he goes, yeah, I did,
Speaker 2: all right. It was different back in the day before
Speaker 2: the chair. And again Amara was like, oh, yeah, when
Speaker 2: you can walk and fuck, remember those good old days.
Speaker 3: And it's like, leave this guy. I mean, I guess he's.
Speaker 2: A rapist murderer, but like they're like bullying him, and
Speaker 2: he says, if I were you, i'd remember who I
Speaker 2: was fucking and not since you can't fuck anymore, and
Speaker 2: all you have is memories. And Harold changes his demeanor.
Speaker 2: He's so offended. He's such a good actor, and he says, fine,
Speaker 2: I remember meeting her, and they go there's DNA in
Speaker 2: her body and we know you were with her, and
Speaker 2: he says, fine, so I went home with her, doesn't
Speaker 2: mean I killed her. Benson leans in and says, Brian,
Speaker 2: let me ask you something. That bus hit you and
Speaker 2: broke your spinal cord and it didn't just cripple you,
Speaker 2: it made you impotent. Leave him alone, Like how are
Speaker 2: you making me a defend a rapist murderer? Like They're like,
Speaker 2: you've had twenty five years to think about that accident.
Speaker 3: You ever think it was karma?
Speaker 2: And he looks at her with disgust, and we cut
Speaker 2: to Rollins greeting mister and missus Stanger Stannger, Patty Stanger,
Speaker 2: I'll say Stanger, who were called in and hopefully they
Speaker 2: found who killed their daughter. So they show suspect the
Speaker 2: photos of the suspects of the parents, and of course
Speaker 2: the dad's like, I don't really know these guys, and
Speaker 2: it's like, why would you know random guys that your
Speaker 2: daughter fucked, Like that would be weird? And they say,
Speaker 2: Kira wouldn't have gone with a man like that, and
Speaker 2: I'm like, do you mean black? Like this seems kind
Speaker 2: of bad, and Finn and Rollins do a little look
Speaker 2: at each other and then asks like, well, was the
Speaker 2: daughter a basketball fan?
Speaker 3: And they're like, no, she likes music, hated sports.
Speaker 1: We're from Vermont, and he is doing a pretty good
Speaker 1: Vermont accent. I have to say, oh, really, she hated spots,
Speaker 1: Like yeah, it's Vermont's like a weird like a weird
Speaker 1: country Boston accent in a weird way.
Speaker 3: Like, but he is doing a good accent, this guy,
Speaker 3: I think.
Speaker 2: And Rollins is like, maybe you didn't know everything she
Speaker 2: did for fun and he goes, no, we met Noah,
Speaker 2: her fiance, like two weeks after she met him, Like
Speaker 2: they were so in love and that's why they knew
Speaker 2: that the cops were wrong about her being killed by
Speaker 2: a random man at a bar.
Speaker 3: It's just like not her life.
Speaker 2: So she was a kindergarten teacher and Noah was traveling
Speaker 2: on business and she remembers that she called the mom
Speaker 2: and was like, I missed my guys so much, Like
Speaker 2: we really don't thing this man.
Speaker 3: You have killed our daughter. So we're back with Harold.
Speaker 2: And there's tons more photos on the table and they're
Speaker 2: pushing to get a confession, and Benson's pacing like, Sacramento,
Speaker 2: February nineteen eighty seven, Teresa your first victim. Then he says, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: she screamed when I did her, And Tomarro continues victim
Speaker 2: to Philly Marley and he says, yes, Washington, Diane, Yeah,
Speaker 2: she just laid there for Gene's.
Speaker 1: Kind of weird too, that, like we just jump into
Speaker 1: this scene where he's fully confessing.
Speaker 3: Now, yeah, we gotta assume a couple hours two.
Speaker 1: Minutes ago he was like, what do you mean just
Speaker 1: because I had sex with her doesn't mean I killed her?
Speaker 3: And now he's like, yep, did her? Did her? Did her?
Speaker 2: Like maybe the bullying about him being impotent helped, Like
Speaker 2: I don't know, so then uh oh, Gina, she was nuts, Yeah, yeah, whatever, Yeah,
Speaker 2: I did them all.
Speaker 3: What can I say?
Speaker 2: And then they're like number five here in New York
Speaker 2: and he goes, no, I never met her, and they
Speaker 2: seem stumped, and Craigan's like, it's been over fifteen hours
Speaker 2: and he won't confess to the fifth and Benson's like,
Speaker 2: what do we have on her? Dana Lewis repeats all
Speaker 2: the overlapping elements of the case, and Rollins is in
Speaker 2: the meeting to filling them in on what the parents
Speaker 2: said and how she wouldn't take home a stranger from
Speaker 2: the bar, and then also forensics are negative on prince
Speaker 2: blood and fluids. So Lewis is like, okay, we got
Speaker 2: the gloves, what do we have have we swiped the
Speaker 2: inside of the gloves, like people, people, Let's get moving.
Speaker 2: We got to find some evidence. So Benson's like, okay,
Speaker 2: we'll make another call to a cold case. So Kragan's like, honestly,
Speaker 2: it gets lonely there, so why don't you pay them
Speaker 2: a visit and let them know the FBI is breathing
Speaker 2: down our necks?
Speaker 3: He says, take much.
Speaker 2: They love him over there, and I can't tell if
Speaker 2: it's sarcastic or sincere thoughts sarcastic. Okay, so they hate him,
Speaker 2: and we're off to the storage room. It's Rollin's and
Speaker 2: munch and so so many boxes piled super high. It's
Speaker 2: a super mess. And Detective Emily Ling played by Sue Kim,
Speaker 2: is there and she's been in two other episodes of
Speaker 2: SBU Video Killed the Radio Star and Manhattan Vigil and
Speaker 2: she's walking them through all the boxes and I feel
Speaker 2: like she seems annoyed, and then the log says there
Speaker 2: should be latex gloves, athletic tape, and fingernail clippings from
Speaker 2: the VIC. She gets the box down. Uh oh, someone
Speaker 2: got there ahead of them ten years ago. They were
Speaker 2: checked out by a detective. O'Reilly and there should be
Speaker 2: another box too, And then it pulls back to all
Speaker 2: the boxes and it's like, fuck, like the second box
Speaker 2: can be our ticket to the evidence, but there's so
Speaker 2: many boxes.
Speaker 3: What do we do?
Speaker 2: So now we're back in interrogation and they keep just
Speaker 2: like number five, Kira New York, you did it? And
Speaker 2: he says, no, she's not even my type, red hair, yuck.
Speaker 3: I didn't do her. And they're like and they're like,
Speaker 3: we can prove it.
Speaker 2: We have your DNA and he says, whatever you say,
Speaker 2: and Amaro goes, no, we need to hear you say it.
Speaker 2: But like he admitted to the others, why would he
Speaker 2: lie like I just say it when they're just so
Speaker 2: onto something. And then I'm like, like, why did you
Speaker 2: even need to get him on another account of murder.
Speaker 3: You got him on four Like.
Speaker 1: I think there's a jowsier for the parent, and I
Speaker 1: think that's all it's like usually about is like closing
Speaker 1: the case and like getting the closure for the.
Speaker 2: It's just it's like, just get him on other stuff.
Speaker 2: He says, I want to get out of this room,
Speaker 2: and Benson's like, that's not going to happen till you
Speaker 2: tell the truth, and he yells, I didn't touch this bitch,
Speaker 2: and the camera pulls back to reveal Craigan and Lewis
Speaker 2: watching this all go down. He then again yells, I
Speaker 2: hate redheads and that is like, I'm going to ask
Speaker 2: for a lawyer if you keep playing these games. And
Speaker 2: Craigan's like, why is he doing this? Lewis says to Craigan,
Speaker 2: Creakan probably knew that she was pregnant. She was two
Speaker 2: months along at the time of the crime. It was
Speaker 2: left off the autopsy report to save the family, so
Speaker 2: the FBI knew. How did he know? And she says, oh,
Speaker 2: she probably told him when she was begging for her life.
Speaker 2: She says, Captain, I realize this is New York, but
Speaker 2: I know him.
Speaker 3: Thank you.
Speaker 2: She says, he lets her in without even saying a word.
Speaker 2: She comes in and introduces herself and tells the detectives,
Speaker 2: your captain said you can take a break and we're
Speaker 2: going to keep talking. He's all yours, agent, Amaro says,
Speaker 2: and they both walk out. So she walks in. She's like, hey,
Speaker 2: here's your friend. You know you're going back to prison
Speaker 2: in that chair.
Speaker 3: That sucks.
Speaker 2: There are places where you'll be lucky to get out
Speaker 2: of that chair, or lucky to even get a bucket,
Speaker 2: but there are other places that are more enlightened. And
Speaker 2: he's like and then he's like, what do you want
Speaker 2: and she says, I know you killed her. And then
Speaker 2: they're like, no one has to know about that. Just
Speaker 2: tell me the truth right now. Everything was going to
Speaker 2: be all right. He asks she was pregnant, and she
Speaker 2: takes it as fact, like a little word game, like
Speaker 2: see I knew, you knew, And she says, I know
Speaker 2: You've had a tough road stuck in that chair, put
Speaker 2: people looking right through you, nobody knowing what you're capable of.
Speaker 2: But I see you, and I saw you back then,
Speaker 2: and it cuts to Benson being pissed that Craigan took
Speaker 2: them out and they're like, we were right there, and
Speaker 2: it's like it has been fifteen hours, so maybe you
Speaker 2: weren't right there, and maybe you should take a break
Speaker 2: after fifteen hours, like I don't know how you're still mad,
Speaker 2: and Craigan's like, listen, it doesn't hurt to switch it up.
Speaker 2: Amaro asks Live if she's got a second, and she
Speaker 2: scurries off as we hear the voiceover of Lewis saying
Speaker 2: what it was like to be with a real man,
Speaker 2: and it cuts back to them, so she's like, they
Speaker 2: didn't appreciate you, and here you are, and she was
Speaker 2: just like, I bet it felt really good to tell
Speaker 2: the truth about those girls, right, Brian, just lift off
Speaker 2: your shoulders and he agrees, and she says it's like
Speaker 2: a pressure pushing down on your head like a brick.
Speaker 3: She's like, let it go.
Speaker 2: She's like, I think the man who did this is
Speaker 2: not the man you are today, but you have to
Speaker 2: own up to it to move on and want you
Speaker 2: to have peace, Brian, don't you want that too?
Speaker 3: Peace? And he says yes.
Speaker 2: Well, take another look, she says, and see if you
Speaker 2: remember her, And she says so pretty, so young, those eyes,
Speaker 2: and we see all the photos on the desk and
Speaker 2: the crime scene pics are very vivid and scary, and
Speaker 2: she says, do you remember Harold looks super sad and says,
Speaker 2: I remember Amaro's filling Benson in on Rollin's evidence box
Speaker 2: escapades and the detective who checked the boxes out was
Speaker 2: unrelated to the case and doesn't remember anything, and then
Speaker 2: she says, cold case more like lost case.
Speaker 3: Okay, Carrie Bradshaw.
Speaker 2: A man walks in and asks to speak to detect
Speaker 2: to Rollins, and he's Noah Bunning and he was Kira's fiance.
Speaker 2: Her parents called and so he flew in from Seattle quickly,
Speaker 2: and Dana Lewis comes out into the squadroom excited and gloating,
Speaker 2: and the man Noah, goes Dana and he recognizes her
Speaker 2: but is also confused.
Speaker 3: They hug.
Speaker 2: She tells Noah, I think we finally got him, and
Speaker 2: Amarro is suspicious and like him and Benson exchanged glances,
Speaker 2: which leads us to like a little done done moment,
Speaker 2: So we're back to exactly where we were, just back
Speaker 2: in the squadron and Benson doesn't buy the confession and
Speaker 2: she's like, wait, he confessed to cure it too, and
Speaker 2: she says, yes, I mean you took him to the edge.
Speaker 3: I just flipped him over.
Speaker 2: And Noah's like, I can't believe this, and Dana says,
Speaker 2: I know, it's all a shock. I got to get
Speaker 2: my team. I'm gonna call them and I'll fill you
Speaker 2: in later. Craigan says that Nick can do that, and
Speaker 2: she quickly agrees, says of course, and says we'll catch
Speaker 2: up later.
Speaker 3: Nick grabs Noah and they walk off.
Speaker 2: Benson and Dana stay to talk and Craigan is gonna
Speaker 2: call the da. Nick then swirls back without Noah to
Speaker 2: be like, that's so weird. You said you didn't know
Speaker 2: the family, and she's like, well the parents, but yeah,
Speaker 2: but I you know this, Noah, we've actually known each
Speaker 2: other since college and Tomorrow doesn't like that she never
Speaker 2: mentioned that, and Benson's got her girls back and he's like,
Speaker 2: that was twenty five years ago, bro chill out and
Speaker 2: she explains that she was a senior, he was a freshman.
Speaker 3: They went to Tulane.
Speaker 2: She says that he had a crush on her, but
Speaker 2: that his life was like turned upside down and we
Speaker 2: pant to Noah and he's looking at the photos of
Speaker 2: the suspects and he's like, none of these guys mean anything,
Speaker 2: and he lasts. When Tomorrow asked if they watched basketball together,
Speaker 2: he's like, she's from Vermont, Hello, cross country skiing is life.
Speaker 3: She's not a sportscal So the.
Speaker 2: Night of the murder, he was at Duke because he
Speaker 2: was a textbook salesman. He then goes into a little
Speaker 2: monologue like he doesn't think about it every day, but
Speaker 2: since you know, he's gotten married. Since then, he's gotten
Speaker 2: the kid he got divorced, but not a month goes
Speaker 2: by that something doesn't remind him of Kira. He gets
Speaker 2: up and he's being fled with memories and thoughts, and
Speaker 2: he shares that her parents never bought what the cops
Speaker 2: were selling about her bringing some random guy home. And
Speaker 2: he's like, there must have been drugging or a break
Speaker 2: in or something and mentions Dana and Tomorrow is like,
Speaker 2: agent lewis this guy called her when it happened And
Speaker 2: he's like, so you stayed in touch after college and
Speaker 2: he reveals that they dated on and off. Amara responds
Speaker 2: with an oh. He asks if they talked a lot
Speaker 2: about the case and he said, we didn't do much talking,
Speaker 2: you know what I mean, And we do. If Kira
Speaker 2: being pregnant was planned, no, he chuckles. In fact, he
Speaker 2: freaked out at first, but then realized it was meant
Speaker 2: to be, so he stops seeing Dana and says that
Speaker 2: he always knew Dana wasn't the one. Amorro runs to
Speaker 2: Daddy Craigan to spill the beans. He asks if he
Speaker 2: heard Brian do the confession, and Craigan did not catch
Speaker 2: the end of the confession. Tomorrow starts spiraling and it's
Speaker 2: like it doesn't match up, Boss, and Benson walks in
Speaker 2: behind into the office.
Speaker 3: She says, Nick, we're good.
Speaker 2: Dana gave me the blow by blow, and He's like, well,
Speaker 2: did she tell you that she dated Noah on and
Speaker 2: off after college? And Benson's like, I mean, she's a
Speaker 2: real private person. Amar was like, if she talked cases
Speaker 2: with him, he could have known the mo O and
Speaker 2: did it, and Benson's like, his alibi checked out, but
Speaker 2: I guess we can double check it.
Speaker 3: So they're gonna double check.
Speaker 2: So then they're like, why don't we find the og
Speaker 2: detective to the case and ask some more questions to
Speaker 2: him and so then they ask, so when Lewis broke
Speaker 2: into the interrogation, was that your idea or his? And
Speaker 2: it was hers and she was obsessed with Brian and
Speaker 2: Benson's like, if you think Noah's punk, asked Trickter, there's
Speaker 2: not a chance, and they're like, well, maybe she's protecting
Speaker 2: this dork. They did day and Finn and Rollins go
Speaker 2: talk to the detective from that night. His name's Jerome
Speaker 2: Howard and he's played by Roscoe Orman, who was on
Speaker 2: Sesame Street for four hundred and twenty two episodes as
Speaker 2: Gordon Wild.
Speaker 1: Yeah why a legend, children's developmental legend.
Speaker 2: And he has a fun pattern sweater on that I'm
Speaker 2: upset with. And he says that she was a genuine victim,
Speaker 2: and I do hate that phrasing, but he said not
Speaker 2: a drop of liquor in the house, and it's like,
Speaker 2: so if you have a bottle of vodka in the freezer,
Speaker 2: you're not a real victim. It's like, yeah, I hate
Speaker 2: police culture. But Kira was a teacher. The fiance's airtight
Speaker 2: alibi there like it was receipts, airplane tickets, phone records,
Speaker 2: and after interviewing him, there was like no way.
Speaker 3: His heart was super broken.
Speaker 2: Rollins is like, was the FBI there, and he's like, ugh, yeah,
Speaker 2: they had some young girl profiler and she acts like
Speaker 2: it was her crime scene and there and that we
Speaker 2: were just the hired help. And Finn asks if she
Speaker 2: had mentioned she knew the fiance and he says, nope,
Speaker 2: she was all business. You know what I'm thinking about,
Speaker 2: Like the FBI is always like, oh the fuck the FBI.
Speaker 2: Won't they work together? But I'm sure the FBI thinks
Speaker 2: that the police are stupid, like we all think the
Speaker 2: police are stupid, Like it totally makes sense. Like I've
Speaker 2: been so mad at the FBI territorial and stuff, but
Speaker 2: it's like, yeah, they don't respect you.
Speaker 1: Yeah, because i mean, like if you look at the
Speaker 1: hierarchy of it, it's like anything else. The FBI is
Speaker 1: supposed to be like the best of the best, like
Speaker 1: the people that go there, so they look down on
Speaker 1: people like that are lower than them.
Speaker 3: But also I do think.
Speaker 2: It's weird that you can't do drugs because remember we
Speaker 2: met that couple in Nashville where he worked as a
Speaker 2: police officer like.
Speaker 3: Someone's husband, but he wanted to be in the FBI.
Speaker 3: And they try to recruit him.
Speaker 2: But when they asked if you did drugs, he's like
Speaker 2: I tried weed once and you're done, Like you can't
Speaker 2: do it.
Speaker 3: Yes, it's so crazy.
Speaker 1: Oh did I ever tell you that one time my
Speaker 1: friend got a job at the FBI, Like, not as
Speaker 1: an agent. I think it was something else and I
Speaker 1: was his interview reference.
Speaker 3: Like an FBI agent came to my work.
Speaker 1: We went out to a like a coffee place, and
Speaker 1: they asked me all these questions about him.
Speaker 3: It was cool. Did you tell the truth?
Speaker 1: Yeah, he was a good guy, Like there was nothing
Speaker 1: I wasn't like you know.
Speaker 2: But I just don't understand why you can't be a
Speaker 2: stoner in the FBI.
Speaker 3: I don't get it.
Speaker 1: I don't think you could have while it's illegal, you
Speaker 1: can't habitually be a marijuana user. What if you were
Speaker 1: like overlooking cases with cartels and marijuana. Yeah, but once
Speaker 1: I tried it one time in college? Is crazy?
Speaker 2: Yeah, Like because you don't want to because then if
Speaker 2: do you think they like they could figure out and
Speaker 2: like that's why you can't lie like I would.
Speaker 1: Just I thought that I heard something a few years
Speaker 1: ago that they were changing that kind of thing, but
Speaker 1: maybe I'm wrong. All right, they were changing like the
Speaker 1: whole I've tried it once. Thing like, obviously, if they
Speaker 1: test you and you've smoked like within the time of
Speaker 1: the test, maybe they can kick you out because they
Speaker 1: think you're like an habitual user. But I don't know. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean whatever. In ten years it's all going to
Speaker 1: be legal.
Speaker 2: Go well, hopefully, yeah, no abortion, but we could be high.
Speaker 2: Finn asks if she had mentioned she knew the fiance,
Speaker 2: and he says no, but she was all business. So
Speaker 2: then we cut back the precinct and we're in the
Speaker 2: bunk bedroom and Tomorrow is helping Brian into the bed
Speaker 2: from his chair, and he's kind of pissed. He goes,
Speaker 2: that was way too long for me to be in
Speaker 2: the chair. It's like, not cool. But he's not tired,
Speaker 2: he says, And Tomorrow asks, why you got something on
Speaker 2: your mind? So Marrowster's playing a little game to get info,
Speaker 2: and he says, usually once people confess, it's easy to
Speaker 2: fall asleep at night. So then he starts talking about
Speaker 2: Kira and says, is it true? Was she pregnant? So
Speaker 2: then Harold Parano little Brian. He goes, well, that's weird.
Speaker 2: If she was pregnant, why was she drinking in the bar?
Speaker 2: That's a good question.
Speaker 3: Yeah. So he's like, riddle me.
Speaker 2: This the only sex life I've had in twenty five
Speaker 2: years is all up here and he points to his head.
Speaker 2: The other four girls, I remember every single detail. I
Speaker 2: replay it all the time. This last girl, it's like
Speaker 2: the tape gott E Race. And we cut to Benson
Speaker 2: and Lewis at the bar and she asks, Dana is
Speaker 2: the reason you stayed on the case for Noah and
Speaker 2: she admits partly. And she's like, so he called you
Speaker 2: after the murder and Dana confirmed and she says yes.
Speaker 2: And then I had to accuse myself because the bureau
Speaker 2: are real sticklers about that, and Benson's like, when was
Speaker 2: the last time you chatted with him before the murder?
Speaker 2: And she doesn't remember him. And then Benson gets a
Speaker 2: phone call and then says bad news. Brian's recanting on
Speaker 2: just the last one. He's claiming corsion and tomorrow is
Speaker 2: now with Benson at the office being like, look, he's
Speaker 2: not good for this, I know it. Benson is sick
Speaker 2: of this shit. Nick, listen to me. Dana is not involved.
Speaker 2: She says she's a dedicated officer, just like I am.
Speaker 2: At that moment, Dana Lewis walks up, being like, why
Speaker 2: is Brian taking so long? So Nick says, I'll check
Speaker 2: on him in the bathroom. So Amarro goes to check
Speaker 2: on Brian in the bathroom and Benson and Lewis are like,
Speaker 2: let's close this shit out. So Benson and Lewis are
Speaker 2: waiting in the interrogation room for him when Craigan walks
Speaker 2: in and goes, sorry, guys, Brian had an accident, so
Speaker 2: they're changing his clothes. Dana's like, ugh, he's stalling and
Speaker 2: if you guys were taping my interview, he'd be an
Speaker 2: arrayment right now.
Speaker 3: So Craigan leaves and says, we'll get you a camera.
Speaker 2: Amorrow approaches Craigan to watch from the window and says, okay,
Speaker 2: Brian's in the crashroom and everyone's.
Speaker 3: Informed not to go in there. Good good.
Speaker 2: We cut to Tomorrow setting up a video camera in
Speaker 2: the room and they're like, listen, Brian's having a lot
Speaker 2: of stomach issues. Unis are cleaning him up. We got
Speaker 2: to just you know, that's it is what it is.
Speaker 1: So Dana as I love how the excuse is just
Speaker 1: like diarrhea. We'll be on it soon, but it's just
Speaker 1: right now a lot of diarrhea.
Speaker 4: Uh.
Speaker 2: Dana asked him, since he's been spending the most time
Speaker 2: with him, what's his vibe, and it's the same shit,
Speaker 2: like he's sad and feels bad, but not the last one.
Speaker 2: She thought about that there's no seman found at the scene.
Speaker 2: Maybe he failed to perform and doesn't want to admit it.
Speaker 2: He also says that he seems really upset that she
Speaker 2: was pregnant and at a bar, so the videos up
Speaker 2: to Morrow. Says he was like setting it up and
Speaker 2: he's like, I'll go check on Brian. So now just
Speaker 2: Benson and Dana Lewis in the room, the camera is
Speaker 2: set up and Benson's like yeah. Her parents also said
Speaker 2: there was no way that Kara would take a stranger home.
Speaker 3: Did Kira go to school with you and Noah?
Speaker 2: And Dana responds that knows since he was younger than
Speaker 2: her and she was even younger than him, But then
Speaker 2: you were still in contact with Noah like me when
Speaker 2: he met Kira, Like, are you sure you guys never
Speaker 2: met or knew each other? And She's like, I don't remember,
Speaker 2: it was so long ago, and then she asks if
Speaker 2: she ever met Kira and she's like, honey, I can't remember,
Speaker 2: like maybe at a party. And Craigan and Tomorrow are
Speaker 2: watching the footage of this on the laptop and Rollins
Speaker 2: and Finn come to watch the show and fill the
Speaker 2: captain in what the og detective.
Speaker 3: Told him about Noah not being good for this.
Speaker 2: So then Rollins goes but we did find out that
Speaker 2: Lewis was on the crime scene, and Amarro informs us
Speaker 2: that she told Benson she was down in Georgia at
Speaker 2: the time, So lies, lies, lies. Craigan plays sneaky games.
Speaker 2: He enters interrogation, is like, hey, Finn and Rollins are back,
Speaker 2: just filling you guys in, and oh, Dana Lewis, the
Speaker 2: detective from the case, mister Sesame Street sends his best.
Speaker 2: Benson makes a face. I thought you said you were
Speaker 2: you had to recuse yourself. She's like, I kept my
Speaker 2: eye on it, and also, why are you even talking
Speaker 2: to this detective? He's probably senile by now. And then
Speaker 2: to me, I'm also like, Craigan might be the same age, babe, Like,
Speaker 2: I don't think you should do that, because that happened
Speaker 2: to me once. I was sitting somewhere and I was like, well,
Speaker 2: you know, I have old parents, and then a woman goes, well,
Speaker 2: how old are they? And then I'm like, oh, this
Speaker 2: bitch is as old as my parents, Like, so I
Speaker 2: you know, that's like a fun little game that I
Speaker 2: can relate to. And she starts losing it a little,
Speaker 2: like Noah's not good for it, and where the fuck
Speaker 2: is Brian and Craigan's like, ugh, I'm just as annoyed
Speaker 2: as you are, but he's covered in shit, so why
Speaker 2: don't you give him a second? And Benson is starting
Speaker 2: to look pissed, and Lewis thinks and realizes what's going
Speaker 2: on and is like, huh are you looking into Noah?
Speaker 3: And you didn't fill me in?
Speaker 2: And Benson's like, come on, you had a blind spot
Speaker 2: for him, And she's like why because I dated him
Speaker 2: in college and Benson says, well, Noah says it's much
Speaker 2: more than that. So Harden says, well, it wasn't to me,
Speaker 2: it wasn't that serious. I didn't take it seriously at all,
Speaker 2: and Benson is cold hearted and says even though he
Speaker 2: ended it after meeting her, and she's like, I was
Speaker 2: that Quantico. I'm consumed with my career, not obsessed with
Speaker 2: some old boyfriend. And Benson trips her up boyfriend, So,
Speaker 2: so you did just call him a boyfriend?
Speaker 3: I see?
Speaker 2: And she says, what's going on here? If I didn't
Speaker 2: know better, I would say this was an investigation? And Benson,
Speaker 2: without skipping a beat, asks should I mirandize you. Louis
Speaker 2: sits down cocky and says, you got something to ask me?
Speaker 3: Ask me.
Speaker 2: Benson leans over and says, talk to me, Dana, how
Speaker 2: did we end up here? So Louis responds, like, where
Speaker 2: do you think we are? And Benson goes, Brian's not
Speaker 2: good for this. And then it's like, Noah has an
Speaker 2: airtight alibi as well. And if you're like me, like
Speaker 2: we both are working in this industry, you profile killers
Speaker 2: and suddenly you're hiding personal ties with the deceased, like
Speaker 2: you can see that. I'm questioning what's going on here?
Speaker 2: And she says I was in Georgia undercover and I
Speaker 2: cannot prove it. So Benson laughs and I'm kind of
Speaker 2: laughing too, and Louis says, Honey, I'm not good for
Speaker 2: this run touch DNA and those gloves and you'll see.
Speaker 2: So we cut to Munch surrounded by box and Craigan
Speaker 2: over the phone being like, come on, bitch, find those gloves,
Speaker 2: and he's like, yeah, okay, okay, I'm trying it. So yeah,
Speaker 2: there's just like so many boxes, and I'm like, I
Speaker 2: wish Craigan could just see how many boxes there are,
Speaker 2: Like I want to know where they filmed it. Is
Speaker 2: it a real place they have to buy all those boxes?
Speaker 2: I bet it's relocation.
Speaker 1: I bet it's at least a storage facility of some kind,
Speaker 1: because like to buy all those I mean it was
Speaker 1: like roof to ceiling, like fifty foot ceilings.
Speaker 2: So many boxes. Would love to know where they filmed
Speaker 2: the box scenes. Next time we talked to Neil Barr,
Speaker 2: let's get this one on. Well, this is power him,
Speaker 2: but if we get warn light, we'll ask him. So
Speaker 2: then Craigan hangs up and goes Finn go to the boxes,
Speaker 2: and Finn's pissed. He's so sad, so he walks off
Speaker 2: while Robin's and tomorrow He's like, he can't go to
Speaker 2: Miami and now we have to go to the box room.
Speaker 1: He's like now I gotta go hang out with Munch.
Speaker 1: He's gonna try to convince me to buy a bar
Speaker 1: with him again, like fuck.
Speaker 2: So when Finn leaves sad, then Rollins and Tomorrow are
Speaker 2: still in Craigan's office when Rollins suggests following through with
Speaker 2: the latex gloves and using that since she mentioned them.
Speaker 2: So Rollins comes in and whispers to Benson, and Lewis
Speaker 2: laughs like, bitch, stop whispering, Just tell me what the
Speaker 2: break in the case is. Rollins comes in and says,
Speaker 2: you have you have a problem here. The forensic evidence
Speaker 2: you talked about is gone. But you know that, don't you?
Speaker 2: And then Lewis laughs, laughs and asks if everyone here
Speaker 2: is this paranoid, and Rollins continues, we caught a break though.
Speaker 2: The detective who checked out the evidence didn't realize that
Speaker 2: there were two boxes and he only took one. So
Speaker 2: Dana Lewis, yay, we found a box. How exciting. And
Speaker 2: then Dana's like, yeah, way to go good, Like she's
Speaker 2: acting so pumped that the boxes are found. She's incredible.
Speaker 2: She's thinking on her toes and she is Star. Do
Speaker 2: you remember Star's last name?
Speaker 1: Now I just want to say Star Jones, but no,
Speaker 1: I don't star either.
Speaker 2: So because she she pled the fifth like on the
Speaker 2: It's so funny when I hear plead the fifth, I
Speaker 2: think about Bravo and Andy Cohen more than I think
Speaker 2: about the court of law. So Star Morrison, Star Morrison,
Speaker 2: Star Morrison, thank you for looking that up. So then
Speaker 2: it's like, so you check the gloves he stuffed in
Speaker 2: her mouth and Rollins says, no, they weren't in the box.
Speaker 2: But you know what was Kira's fingernail clippings and there
Speaker 2: was blood on them. Benson says, we're going to run
Speaker 2: the DNA, and Lewis asks, you are well, I mean
Speaker 2: my DNA might be there, Okay, you're guilty. Like what
Speaker 2: So she says her DNA might be there because I
Speaker 2: was at the crime scene and the morgue and cross
Speaker 2: contamination is the bane of forensics across the country.
Speaker 3: But it's like, you gave yourself up.
Speaker 2: This is like this is an FBI like mistake, Like
Speaker 2: you would you could have admit that later like once
Speaker 2: they find out, you be like, wait, what what are
Speaker 2: you talking about? But so like yeah, preempt that your
Speaker 2: shit's gonna be there. That's like a guilty person, and
Speaker 2: then she goes and all of these bluffs, you guys,
Speaker 2: I wrote the book on them there. The problem is
Speaker 2: they don't work on someone who isn't guilty. Noah comes
Speaker 2: to talk tomorrow, and he doesn't get why he's back there,
Speaker 2: but he's willing to help. Somorrow goes, you told me
Speaker 2: that Dana wasn't the one. Did you tell her that?
Speaker 2: Did Dana know you felt that way? And he says,
Speaker 2: I don't know. I mean, yes, yeah, I'm sure she did. Like,
Speaker 2: there wasn't really a breakup. I was traveling a lot.
Speaker 2: So mars like, oh, so you just like faded away
Speaker 2: and she had feelings for you. Did she ever talk
Speaker 2: about wanting more, getting married, starting a family? And he responds, yeah,
Speaker 2: I told her I wasn't ready. Amarro pushes, so how
Speaker 2: long after did you tell her you were gonna marry Kira?
Speaker 3: A few months?
Speaker 2: And when he told her, she lost it and wouldn't
Speaker 2: stop shaking, And finally he gets it. He asks, so
Speaker 2: you're telling me it wasn't a stranger And he's like,
Speaker 2: so it was more than just to break it, and
Speaker 2: wasn't it. So we cut back to Lewis and Benson,
Speaker 2: and Benson's playing her like, I'm sure there was a
Speaker 2: super good reason for anything that you had to do,
Speaker 2: and she's like, you've used every tool here, and if
Speaker 2: I've had anything to confess, I would just do it
Speaker 2: so you felt better about yourself. Amaro runs into the
Speaker 2: room and Lewis is like, oh wow, Cavalry is here
Speaker 2: to help you. And Amaro's like, we have everything, but
Speaker 2: we don't have motive, and she's playing like she's excited
Speaker 2: to hear what the motive is. And he starts like, well,
Speaker 2: I knew you were upset when Noah told you he
Speaker 2: was engaged to Kira, you know, in that Mara hotel
Speaker 2: room after you let him fuck. And she laughs and
Speaker 2: is like, ouch, playing hardball, Okay, you think I'm jealous
Speaker 2: of some kindergarten teacher, a small life in a small world.
Speaker 2: And she asks them if they really think she would
Speaker 2: sacrifice her career and life for that speck, and Amarro's like, speck, really,
Speaker 2: you know, everyone still talks about how beautiful she was
Speaker 2: and how young, and she stole your future and she
Speaker 2: quickly says my future was at the Bureau, and Amara
Speaker 2: with the bomb says, well, that's not what you told
Speaker 2: Noah when he got you pregnant. She slams her paper
Speaker 2: cup coffee on the table and stares up at him.
Speaker 2: That was private and he had no right to tell you.
Speaker 2: But he continues to talk like that, and he's like,
Speaker 2: he told you he didn't want a family, and then
Speaker 2: you had an abortion, and she's like, that was my idea,
Speaker 2: Like she didn't want to do the abortion, and Benson adds, oh,
Speaker 2: so Noah asked you to, and she pretends like she
Speaker 2: doesn't remember, but you just said it wasn't your idea,
Speaker 2: so like you know who strapped you down, bitch. So
Speaker 2: then Benson's like, this is something that affected you. And
Speaker 2: She's like, I'll get over it. I get over all
Speaker 2: the time. I've been raped, I've been shot, I'm chill.
Speaker 2: And Tomorrow's like, but you've been you were seeing him
Speaker 2: for like six or seven years. You loved him and
Speaker 2: she said not after he lied to me, And Benson asks, well,
Speaker 2: then when did he tell you about Kira, And again
Speaker 2: she claims not to remember, but Tomorrow knows and it
Speaker 2: was two months if that, and Leuis glares at him
Speaker 2: and Benson plays the empathy game. Like, damn girl, that stinks,
Speaker 2: No wonder you blocked it out. Her betrayal, asks you
Speaker 2: to get an abortion and then leaves you for her,
Speaker 2: and Tomorrow asks how she found out that she was pregnant,
Speaker 2: and she says, Noah told her, and Tomorrow goes, no,
Speaker 2: he told me, he didn't. She then guesses that it
Speaker 2: must have been one of the detectives or Kira.
Speaker 3: Benson says, and it was you. It's like what you
Speaker 3: told the captain.
Speaker 2: How Brian found out that she was pregnant while she
Speaker 2: was begging for her life And she shakes her head no,
Speaker 2: and Benson's like, that was fucking you in that room,
Speaker 2: killing or as she begged for her life and the
Speaker 2: life of her unborn child. And that's from Chicago. Do
Speaker 2: you remember that? Like Renee on the stand, I thought
Speaker 2: you would. I thought that would penetrate. And Amaro was like,
Speaker 2: is that how you found out? A week after the
Speaker 2: motel dumping Kira was murdered And She's like, I could never.
Speaker 3: She says, I'm just like you.
Speaker 2: I've dedicated my entire life to justice and doing good
Speaker 2: in the world, you know me? And Benson responds, I do,
Speaker 2: And She's one of the best Nick, but she can't
Speaker 2: help wondering if all that sacrifice is to make amends
Speaker 2: and make up for that one mistake. And she's like,
Speaker 2: please don't say that, Olivia, please, and Benson continues on,
Speaker 2: no wonder you spent so much time undercover because you
Speaker 2: were running away from your self, Dana, from what you've
Speaker 2: had done. It must have been so hard to keep
Speaker 2: that horrible secret locked up inside you. It's time now
Speaker 2: you gotta let it go. And she's like, I know you.
Speaker 2: You did not plan on doing this, and she's starting
Speaker 2: to cry. Her hand is on her chest. So she
Speaker 2: explains how she went over to Kira's house to talk
Speaker 2: to her and she just wanted to tell her like
Speaker 2: he doesn't love you more than he loves me.
Speaker 3: He's using both of us.
Speaker 2: And then she said she felt sorry for Lewis, Like
Speaker 2: you can't tell someone and you feel sorry for them
Speaker 2: when they're at the end of their rope, they will
Speaker 2: kill you. Like not to blame the victim, but like
Speaker 2: that is a rude thing that like I feel really
Speaker 2: sorry for you. That's gonna get someone to pop off, Like, yeah,
Speaker 2: that's that's not a chill statement to say, so she
Speaker 2: said she felt sorry for Louis, but they were meant
Speaker 2: to be together. And then Kira confessed to Dana that
Speaker 2: she was pregnant, and that once she told Noah that
Speaker 2: she was pregnant, he got down on his knees and
Speaker 2: asked her to marry him, and he looked so happy,
Speaker 2: and she clenches her fists, and so that's how she
Speaker 2: found out. She doesn't even know what happened. Next, there
Speaker 2: was a body and she looked so pretty but so
Speaker 2: much blood, and I like that she looked hot even
Speaker 2: after murder, and she she she remembers looking at her
Speaker 2: being like, ugh, I bet nothing has ever gone wrong
Speaker 2: in her whole life and that sucks. And Amara was like,
Speaker 2: but she was gone, and you needed to protect yourself,
Speaker 2: so you stage the crime scene. She's like, I guess
Speaker 2: I did. I don't really remember. I was so familiar
Speaker 2: with Brian's like patterns. I was on autopilot. I'm sorry, Olivia,
Speaker 2: I'm sorry, and Benson whispers, I know. And then Craigan
Speaker 2: opens the door to arrests Dana Lewis for the murder
Speaker 2: of Kira's danger, and she wipes away her tears and
Speaker 2: snop from her nose and says, I understand it's time
Speaker 2: twenty five years And she gets up slowly and says, okay,
Speaker 2: I understand, Amaro cup start. She gets walked away and
Speaker 2: Benson is pissed, and it ends on Benson's pissed off face.
Speaker 1: Yeah, because Benson was like, this is another one of me.
Speaker 1: This is like someone like me who's given it all
Speaker 1: up for the job and like does and has like
Speaker 1: a pure heart.
Speaker 3: And then it's like, nah, you're the only good person.
Speaker 2: Well yeah, because that happened to her season nine with
Speaker 2: Signature as well with Erica Christiansen, and like she that
Speaker 2: really touched her too, because it's like, oh, we're like
Speaker 2: we're girl cops doing it for ourselves. And then it's
Speaker 2: like she ended up being a looney tune too. I also,
Speaker 2: like I wonder if Dana Lewis in this moment felt
Speaker 2: the like relief of a confession that she was telling Brian.
Speaker 3: Usually people feel after the yeahs, like yeah.
Speaker 1: I feel like that was like a foreshadowing about the
Speaker 1: brick and like the weight that.
Speaker 2: Well, No, I was also gonna say that she's married
Speaker 2: his kids, like it sucks.
Speaker 1: Yeah, don't you also think it's weird that they didn't
Speaker 1: cast like just a smidge of a hotter guy to
Speaker 1: play Noah, Like he's such a dork and he had
Speaker 1: this badass f like pre FBI woman and then he
Speaker 1: has this beautiful kindergarten. I'm like, let's get a little
Speaker 1: bit of a hotter guy. I'm just being lucist right
Speaker 1: now because I thought Noah was kind of schlubby.
Speaker 3: But maybe Noah was hotter in his twenties.
Speaker 1: Sure well, let me get into the real case, because
Speaker 1: it's it's a wild one and I.
Speaker 3: Don't do you remember? Do you remember hot or Not? Yeah?
Speaker 1: I do.
Speaker 2: Maybe we should play that with Noah on our Instagram hot.
Speaker 1: Or Not and we'll just humiliate the actor. Listen, do
Speaker 1: you know anything about this case?
Speaker 4: No?
Speaker 2: Except yes, because people keep writing us obsessed and they
Speaker 2: want ok and more, and you've been dying to do
Speaker 2: this crime forever. So I've heard rumblings, but I'm ready
Speaker 2: to be educated.
Speaker 1: Okay, we will be right back after these messages. We
Speaker 1: are back, and let me take this from the very
Speaker 1: tippy top. This is a crime that takes place in
Speaker 1: the LA area, which I honestly completely forgot that this happened.
Speaker 3: Like so close to like where I live.
Speaker 1: So John Rutten was a student at UCLA majoring in
Speaker 1: mechanical engineering from seventy eight to eighty two. He had
Speaker 1: dated a fellow student there named Stephanie Lazarus. One source
Speaker 1: I read and said she was a poly sci major.
Speaker 1: Another says sociology. Either way, she's from Seami Valley, which
Speaker 1: is about forty minutes Outsiday useless.
Speaker 2: Yes, majors, you know it doesn't matter, interchangeable and this
Speaker 2: is coming from a sociology major, but like this isn't real,
Speaker 2: it doesn't matter.
Speaker 1: Yeah, So she's from seem Valley and that's like a
Speaker 1: that's like a cop town. That's like I remember see
Speaker 1: Me Valley from the OJ stuff, like one of the
Speaker 1: cops that took the gloves like brought it home to
Speaker 1: his house in seem Valley and then brought it in
Speaker 1: the next day to like the police. And so I
Speaker 1: always associate seem Me Valley with a my friend's wedding
Speaker 1: I went to there, and b it's a cop town.
Speaker 1: So that's where she grew up and lived later in
Speaker 1: life as well. So her and Stephanie and John were
Speaker 1: both big sports people and an article I read said
Speaker 1: she played JV basketball at UCLA, and I just did
Speaker 1: not know colleges had JV teams. I thought by the
Speaker 1: time you were in college, it was like varsity or nothing.
Speaker 1: But I guess there was JB and much for mural. Yeah, intramural.
Speaker 1: I played intramural softball where I like smoked cigarettes while
Speaker 1: I played, Like trust me, like I know, I know
Speaker 1: the intermural scene.
Speaker 2: I wish I knew you and your cigarette years, Like
Speaker 2: it's just so funny that you'd be ripping cigarettes.
Speaker 1: Like Liza, I was a heavy smoker, Like I smoked
Speaker 1: all the time, Like it was never too early for
Speaker 1: me to smoke. I'd be like eight am on the
Speaker 1: way to a meeting. I'm smoking, like I was a
Speaker 1: fucking smoker, much like in the episode Stephanie and John
Speaker 1: loved to fuck, like their relationship was like mostly hooking up.
Speaker 3: Says fucking it sounds like yeah.
Speaker 1: So allegedly Stephanie would like steal his clothes when he
Speaker 1: showered and like take pictures, like take naked pictures of
Speaker 1: him sleeping, which she was very horny for him. And
Speaker 1: then John thought the relationship was mostly about that, just
Speaker 1: like physical stuff. But then this one article I was
Speaker 1: reading said that they didn't actually even have sex until
Speaker 1: after they graduated in nineteen eighty two.
Speaker 3: Before that, it was just a lot of like hooking up.
Speaker 1: But then they went on to have sex around twenty
Speaker 1: to thirty times between eighty one and eighty four, so
Speaker 1: they were like on and off again fuck buddies and
Speaker 1: he was not into labels and says that she was
Speaker 1: never his girlfriend. Okay, In the summer of nineteen eighty four,
Speaker 1: he meets Sherry Rass And I think this case always
Speaker 1: confused me too, because there was a recent case of
Speaker 1: Sherry Peppini, who's the woman who staged her own kidnapping. You remember,
Speaker 1: she was like jogging and she like left her earbuds
Speaker 1: and then like came back all beaten up. But people
Speaker 1: were like, it seems like you did this yourself, did you? Okay,
Speaker 1: a wild case.
Speaker 3: I hope there's an spe based on it.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Anyway, there's something I love about staging your own disappearance.
Speaker 3: I really love.
Speaker 1: That it was like a wild gone like the real
Speaker 1: life Gone girls what everybody was like calling it. But anyway,
Speaker 1: different Sherry's this is Sherry Rosmussen and Vanity Fair calls
Speaker 1: her quote a tall Scandinavian beauty with light brown hair,
Speaker 1: a broad face with high cheekbones, and wide set eyes
Speaker 1: under dark arching eyebrows. Okay, Vanity Fair wants to fuck her.
Speaker 1: And they both liked to run. Both John and Sherry
Speaker 1: liked to run. They're both everybody in the story is
Speaker 1: in great shape. They just keep talking about how hot
Speaker 1: everyone's bods are. And both of them had careers that
Speaker 1: were kind of like taking off. He had just graduated
Speaker 1: and was like doing engineering shit. She was in critical
Speaker 1: care nursing kind of like a wonder kind like she
Speaker 1: was like started college at sixteen, and at twenty seven
Speaker 1: she was already the director of nursing at Glendale Adventist
Speaker 1: Medical Center, which is I frequent. It been many times.
Speaker 1: My kids have doctors there. I have doctors there. I
Speaker 1: go there all the time. John and Sherry immediately fell
Speaker 1: in love and they got engaged, like it was kind
Speaker 1: of a whirlwind romance, Like I think they met the
Speaker 1: summer of eighty four and they were engaged by like
Speaker 1: the fall of eighty five. And John testified later that
Speaker 1: he never told Stephanie about starting to date Sherry because
Speaker 1: he hadn't seen her in months, and in September of
Speaker 1: nineteen eighty four, Stephanie threw John a surprise birthday party
Speaker 1: for his twenty fifth birthday, completely unaware that he was
Speaker 1: in a serious relationship with Sherry, like did not know,
Speaker 1: so you know, after Stephanie did find out, she made
Speaker 1: John come over to her place, where she like professed
Speaker 1: her love to him through tears like it's they take
Speaker 1: a lot in this episode from the real story. She
Speaker 1: also asked to fuck him, which of course he did
Speaker 1: because he is a man, and later he said that
Speaker 1: was a stupid move, but it didn't change anything about
Speaker 1: his relationship and his feelings for Sherry. So he also
Speaker 1: said he confessed that he fucked Stephanie to Sherry and said,
Speaker 1: don't let this mess us up. I want nothing more
Speaker 1: in the world than to be married to you. So
Speaker 1: Cherry knew about this like indiscretion, and I guess at
Speaker 1: that point they'd only been dating for three months.
Speaker 3: But still he cheated.
Speaker 1: He also said about Stephanie, it was clear she was
Speaker 1: very upset that I was getting married and moving on,
Speaker 1: like after she found out about the engagement. And it
Speaker 1: turns out that the night of their the night that
Speaker 1: they had their like closure sex, she had a male
Speaker 1: roommate who was another cop, and that she came home
Speaker 1: and was like, John broke up with me, and then
Speaker 1: they did buddy sit ups together to make themselves to
Speaker 1: make her feel better, Like they just did like damnedem
Speaker 1: sit ups. Like imagine if that was how you got
Speaker 1: yourself to feel better. Wow, the shape I would be
Speaker 1: in anyway. Stephanie also knew John's entire family and even
Speaker 1: wrote his mom a letter that said, quote, I'm truly
Speaker 1: in love with John and the past year has really
Speaker 1: torn me up. I wish it didn't end the way
Speaker 1: it did, and I don't think I'll ever understand his
Speaker 1: decision end quote, and John later testified, I always made
Speaker 1: it clear that we were just friends and this wasn't
Speaker 1: going towards marriage end quote. But it's like people hate labels,
Speaker 1: but maybe this is why we need labels, because like
Speaker 1: she fully thought this was her on again, off again boyfriend,
Speaker 1: and he was like, I thought we were fuck buddies.
Speaker 3: What's going on?
Speaker 1: So anyway, some people thought that Stephanie was kind of
Speaker 1: trying to insert herself into John and Sherry's relationships.
Speaker 3: A little bit like third wheel style, Like, there.
Speaker 1: Was this incident that's written up in a couple places
Speaker 1: where Stephanie brought her water skis over to John and
Speaker 1: Sherry's apartment so that John could wax them for her.
Speaker 1: And Stephanie was looking all hot in workout clothes when
Speaker 1: she did it. So John agreed to wax the skis,
Speaker 1: and Scherry got pissed at him, rightfully, and was like,
Speaker 1: what's going on, Like why is she stopping by her
Speaker 1: for you to do shit for her? And he insisted like,
Speaker 1: don't worry, like we're totally done, so this is not
Speaker 1: this is not anything, like I'm just doing her this favor,
Speaker 1: like you have nothing to worry about. And then Stephanie
Speaker 1: came by days later to get the skis and John
Speaker 1: was not there, and she was in her uniform and armed,
Speaker 1: which like could be perceived as trying to intimidate this
Speaker 1: like new girlfriend, right, So Sherry like was begging John
Speaker 1: to tell Stephanie to stop coming by, and Sherry was
Speaker 1: like confessing a lot of stuff to her father, Like
Speaker 1: according to Sherry's father, Nell's, Stephanie at one point visited
Speaker 1: Sherry at work, like stormed into her office in I
Speaker 1: read in another article in tight short shorts and a
Speaker 1: tube top, and I love that. If you're going to
Speaker 1: be a psycho and you're gonna come in and tell
Speaker 1: some woman to like stay away from your man, you
Speaker 1: got to be in shorty shorts and a tube top
Speaker 1: and looking hot. So and she basically was like telling
Speaker 1: her it's not done between me and John. And essentially,
Speaker 1: if I can't have John, no one else can. Like
Speaker 1: very yikes. And so Sherry told her dad she thought
Speaker 1: Stephanie was stalking her, and but that she said, I'll
Speaker 1: handle it, like I'll figure it out. So Sherry and
Speaker 1: John did end up getting married in November of nineteen
Speaker 1: eighty five. Three months later, February twenty fourth, nineteen eighty six,
Speaker 1: Sherry and John are living in a condo in Van Nuys,
Speaker 1: which is just it's part of LA. It's just north
Speaker 1: of it's like in the valley, just north of like
Speaker 1: the rest of LA. And Sherry was supposed to go
Speaker 1: give a talk at work that day and it was
Speaker 1: like a motivational speech, and she didn't really think that
Speaker 1: those worked. So she was like, I'm not really feeling
Speaker 1: this and was telling John I might call him sick.
Speaker 1: At nine p forty five, in the morning, a neighbor
Speaker 1: noticed that their garage door was open and there was
Speaker 1: no car in it. And throughout the day, like later
Speaker 1: in the morning and then throughout the day, John was
Speaker 1: calling the house but not getting an answer from Sherry.
Speaker 1: Her sister was calling the house and not getting an answer.
Speaker 1: And at noon that day, two men who were thought
Speaker 1: to be gardeners or like workmen in the neighborhood gave
Speaker 1: neighbors a purse that they found which did turn out
Speaker 1: to be Sherry's. And around twelve thirty PM, a maid
Speaker 1: in another apartment in the condo said she heard two
Speaker 1: people fighting and something falling. So that evening, when John
Speaker 1: returns home from work, he finds his garage door open
Speaker 1: and there's broken glass in the driveway. Also the BMW
Speaker 1: he had bought Sherry as an engagement gift excuse me
Speaker 1: was missing. And then he entered the house and found
Speaker 1: Sherry dead on the living room floor, shot three times. Okay,
Speaker 1: there's no sign of force entry, but there were signs
Speaker 1: of a struggle. A vase that looked like it had
Speaker 1: been broken over Sherry's head. There's a bloody handprint next
Speaker 1: to the burglar alarms panic button, there was overturned furniture
Speaker 1: stereo speakers. It looked like a struggle had ensued upstairs.
Speaker 1: One of the two sliding glass doors on the back
Speaker 1: balcony was shattered, and so that was the glass that
Speaker 1: he had seen on the pavement outside the garage. So
Speaker 1: it also looked like at one point the killer had
Speaker 1: maybe tried to tie Sherry up, and she had defensive
Speaker 1: wounds and a bruise on her face that implied she
Speaker 1: might have been pistol whipped with the gun. She had
Speaker 1: three shots in her One seemed like it had been
Speaker 1: fired by I'm not sure how far away, but the
Speaker 1: second two shots had been fired directly, like with the
Speaker 1: gun placed on her chest, like point blank range, So
Speaker 1: any of the three shots probably would have killed her,
Speaker 1: but this person wanted to make sure she was dead,
Speaker 1: and the second two shots had been fired through a
Speaker 1: quilted blanket to like muffle the sound. So there was
Speaker 1: also a bitemark on her arm which investigators swabbed for saliva.
Speaker 1: They took a cast to like compare against teeth and stuff,
Speaker 1: and then like the silver BMW was found a week later,
Speaker 1: parked on the street in Van Nuys, unlocked keys in
Speaker 1: the ignition, and in the car they found fingerprints, a
Speaker 1: spot of blood, and a strand of brown hair. Now,
Speaker 1: Sherry's father Nels immediately suspected Stephanie, and he kept telling
Speaker 1: investigators check out the lady cop, the ex girlfriend of
Speaker 1: her husband. He didn't know her name, so he just
Speaker 1: kept saying, check out the lady cop. And the father
Speaker 1: said that homicide Detective Lyle Meyer dis missed it and
Speaker 1: told him you've been watching too many cop shows.
Speaker 3: Lol.
Speaker 1: So, in fact, as we've seen time and time again,
Speaker 1: this detective Meyer had heard from the neighbors about these
Speaker 1: two Latino men who had been burglarizing homes in the
Speaker 1: Van Nights area and had even at one point assaulted
Speaker 1: a woman. So he decided this is who did it.
Speaker 1: And he never strayed from that narrative. He just got
Speaker 1: that narrative like fixed on it and was like, this
Speaker 1: is it. So John had been at work, he had
Speaker 1: an alibi, and he.
Speaker 3: Was not a suspect.
Speaker 1: He was also much like they said in the episode
Speaker 1: what the original investigator, Roscoe Orman's character said, he was
Speaker 1: visibly distraught, like this guy was broken hearted, like no
Speaker 1: one thought it was him. There was no motive, no insurance,
Speaker 1: They had no history of problems together, you know, like,
Speaker 1: so it was everyone testified around them that they were
Speaker 1: like wildly in love. John himself thought Stephanie had nothing
Speaker 1: to do with it, and so Mayer believed him and
Speaker 1: didn't look into it any further. And John also said
Speaker 1: he didn't know about the work confrontation and that Sherry
Speaker 1: would have told him if something like that happened. So
Speaker 1: he's acting like the dad made up that his daughter
Speaker 1: told him about this. There also might have been some
Speaker 1: classic cop cover up shit going on here, because first
Speaker 1: of all, all records pertaining to Nell's suspicion about the
Speaker 1: Lady Cop, and even the interview with John the day
Speaker 1: after murder where he discussed Stephanie with the detective with
Speaker 1: Detective Mayor are missing, Like, there's no records that have
Speaker 1: anything about Stephanie except for one. There are audio recordings
Speaker 1: and notes of every other interview in those first days,
Speaker 1: which was standard operating procedure, but there were none for
Speaker 1: any of the interviews where Stephanie Lazarus was mentioned specifically.
Speaker 6: And is this.
Speaker 2: Motherfucker still working? Like this kind of cop should be
Speaker 2: fired immediately with no retirement, you know what I mean, Like.
Speaker 3: That's a great question. I mean this, Yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 3: This was like any other job. If you fuck up
Speaker 3: like this, like nurses always say it, it's like if
Speaker 3: you kill a patient, you're in trouble.
Speaker 6: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I just don't understand how you could be bad at
Speaker 2: your job, truly fuck up investigations by the law, covering evidence,
Speaker 2: and then be like back the blue just protect that.
Speaker 3: We're just our friends.
Speaker 1: I know. I don't know if this guy was I
Speaker 1: don't know if Lyle Mayer was the guy that actually
Speaker 1: did the covering up.
Speaker 3: Nobody really knows.
Speaker 1: Actually I'll get more into that, but like you know,
Speaker 1: he definitely fully just ignored leads because he had his
Speaker 1: own version of what he thought the crime was.
Speaker 3: Like, yeah, exactly what you're saying. He did a bad job.
Speaker 3: It was twenty six years ago.
Speaker 1: I'm sure he's off the force now anyway, But I
Speaker 1: doubt he got suspended.
Speaker 3: I'm sure he's just like retired.
Speaker 1: So there's audio recordings and notes of every other interview
Speaker 1: of everyone they talked to in the first few days
Speaker 1: of the investigation, but there's nothing about Stephanie being specifically mentioned,
Speaker 1: and both John and Nells remember speaking to the cops
Speaker 1: and mentioning this person, and those interviews were not recorded
Speaker 1: or the recordings have gone missing. So later Nells was
Speaker 1: extremely skeptical also about the Latino burglars theory. He was like,
Speaker 1: the crime scene looked like a struggle had ensued for
Speaker 1: at least an hour. How would Sherry have fought off
Speaker 1: two men for that long? Like, that's pretty tough. So
Speaker 1: Detective Mayor's partner, Steve Hooks thought that the perp might
Speaker 1: have been a woman because quote, women are biters. Because
Speaker 1: of the bite mark okay, she also had not just
Speaker 1: been shot and killed. There were three shots, like someone
Speaker 1: wanted her ass dead. That's like a lot for a burglar,
Speaker 1: For a burglar to be like bang bang bang, like
Speaker 1: I got to make sure that you're totally dead is
Speaker 1: a lot. And so no one ever looked into Stephanie Lazarus.
Speaker 1: And apparently it seems like Mayor or Hooks may have
Speaker 1: called her once and that was it, and there's not
Speaker 1: even like a record of that. But the only mention
Speaker 1: of her in the entire file of this case is
Speaker 1: a note from November nineteenth, nineteen eighty seven. More than
Speaker 1: a year and a half after the murder, and it
Speaker 1: reads John Rutten called period verified Stephanie Lazarus Comma po
Speaker 1: Comma was former girlfriend. So and I'll get into that
Speaker 1: message a little bit later. So there were no arrests,
Speaker 1: and everyone thought it was these two burglars who were
Speaker 1: never caught and like we're at large or whatever. But
Speaker 1: Nells and his wife Loretta like kept going. They offered
Speaker 1: a ten thousand dollars reward. They went on a show
Speaker 1: called Murder one and did a segment about Sherry's murder.
Speaker 1: He kept calling the lp LPD detectives and saying, what
Speaker 1: about the lady cop?
Speaker 3: Have you asked the lady cop?
Speaker 1: And then when DNA testing became like much bigger, because
Speaker 1: this was the mid to late eighties, like DNA I
Speaker 1: think started popping like early nineties, he called the LAPD
Speaker 1: and was like, okay.
Speaker 3: Can you run the evidence?
Speaker 1: And the DNA found it the scene and he was
Speaker 1: told that the department had a limited budget and could
Speaker 1: not afford to run such tests. So he offered to
Speaker 1: pay for the tests himself, and he even had a
Speaker 1: lab straight up willing to do the work. And he
Speaker 1: said he was told them that He was told by
Speaker 1: them that the DNA would do no good without a suspect,
Speaker 1: which may have been true because their database wasn't like
Speaker 1: a full database yet, like it might not have solved
Speaker 1: anything immediately. But Nells wanted the testing done because he
Speaker 1: suspected Stephanie. But he never got a chance because guess what,
Speaker 1: just like in the episode, the evidence fucking disappeared. Some
Speaker 1: random detective not connected to the case allegedly signed it out.
Speaker 1: The man has no memory of doing that, and so
Speaker 1: the evidence just disappeared.
Speaker 3: Infuriating. Okay, like just gonzo.
Speaker 1: Any detective can sign out any kind of fucking evidence
Speaker 1: and it doesn't matter. This man may not have even
Speaker 1: done it. Someone could have just looked up a random
Speaker 1: CoP's name and like written it down. So for eighteen years,
Speaker 1: the file and whatever evidence was left was just like
Speaker 1: rotting away in storage. And in nineteen eighty nine, wildly
Speaker 1: John even met up with Stephanie in Hawaii for a
Speaker 1: scuba trip, and first he called the detective to confirm
Speaker 1: that Stephanie was not linked to his wife wife's murder,
Speaker 1: and Meyer was like, Yep, no suspicions at all. Have aloha,
Speaker 1: have a great time in Hawaii. The Vanity Fair article
Speaker 1: like that has a lot of the information I'm using,
Speaker 1: but also other articles, but this one had like an amazing,
Speaker 1: like very detailed profile about this. They said they reconnected
Speaker 1: in Hawaii. I don't know if it was romantic or what.
Speaker 1: But down the road, John remarried. Stephanie married another cop.
Speaker 1: She John, Yeah, I think maybe kids. Stephanie adopted a
Speaker 1: daughter with her husband, and she also moved up as
Speaker 1: a cop. Like she had a pretty distinguished career. She
Speaker 1: was very well respected. She had no write ups in
Speaker 1: her file, unlike Stabler. And so almost two decades of
Speaker 1: silence in this case. And then in two thousand and four,
Speaker 1: which is apparently in two thousand and one, the LAPD
Speaker 1: police chief started a cold case unit because crime had
Speaker 1: started to fall in LA.
Speaker 3: So they wanted to like, Okay, if you.
Speaker 1: Cops aren't doing anything, you detectors aren't doing anything, let's
Speaker 1: get you working on some of these cold cases. So
Speaker 1: this woman named Jennifer Francis was a criminalist with that unit,
Speaker 1: and she got Cherry's case. She was very confused when
Speaker 1: she started going through the file. She was like, where's
Speaker 1: the swab from the bite? Like where's the DNA, like
Speaker 1: the swab from the bite, and She's like, since it
Speaker 1: wasn't in the file, she checked the coroner's freezers by hand.
Speaker 1: The swab was found in a Manila envelope that had
Speaker 1: somehow like taken on moisture from the side of the
Speaker 1: freezer walls, and so the case number had worn away,
Speaker 1: but it had Resmusen written on the front of it.
Speaker 1: But evidence is usually stored by number, not by name,
Speaker 1: and so whoever gathered up the evidence in eighty six
Speaker 1: had just like left it in the freezer where it
Speaker 1: sat for eighteen years because it didn't have the number
Speaker 1: case number on it. Inside the envelope was a screwcap
Speaker 1: tube and inside the tube were two swabs. So in
Speaker 1: January of five she ran the DNA through CODIS and
Speaker 1: there were no hits, but the result did show that
Speaker 1: the bite on her arm had been made by a woman,
Speaker 1: just like that first guy fucking said, and no one
Speaker 1: even chased it down. At this point, Jennifer Francis does
Speaker 1: not know about Stephanie or Nils's theory or anything, because
Speaker 1: there's nothing written about her in any of the files
Speaker 1: for a cold case officer to even discover, so maybe
Speaker 1: one of the burglars had like the fact that the
Speaker 1: dad keeps calling the LAPD and no one even jots
Speaker 1: it in the notes. No one even says Dad really
Speaker 1: suspects female cop. Dad really thinks it's this person, Like
Speaker 1: there's nothing about her in the notes except for that
Speaker 1: one little note I read earlier. So they're like, Okay, well,
Speaker 1: maybe one of the burglars had was a female. That's
Speaker 1: like not typical, but there's no female suspects in the file,
Speaker 1: so guess this will just sit in evidence and this
Speaker 1: everything just goes back into storage for another four years.
Speaker 1: Now it's two thousand and nine and the case pops
Speaker 1: up again when Van Nuy's homicide detective Jim Nuttle, he
Speaker 1: notices the same thing Jennifer Francis did, that the DNA
Speaker 1: report kind of like fucked the entire working theory of
Speaker 1: the crime. So he tells his boss named Robert Bubb,
Speaker 1: I love that name, who assigned two more detectives, Mark
Speaker 1: Martinez and Pete Barba. They all started looking through everything
Speaker 1: and were actually like, hello, Barba, Yeah, there's a barber
Speaker 1: on the case. So they start looking through everything and
Speaker 1: they're actually like Okay. The working theory was that she
Speaker 1: walked downstairs surprised the burglars, and the burglars like tussled
Speaker 1: with her and then shot her. Okay, but that doesn't
Speaker 1: even make sense, like when they at when they look
Speaker 1: at all, like the when they reconstruct the times the
Speaker 1: crime scene themselves, or like that doesn't even work. Like
Speaker 1: what happened was the intruder went upstairs and surprised her
Speaker 1: and then a shot was two shots were fired at
Speaker 1: her that missed, and that shattered the sliding glass door,
Speaker 1: and that's why the glass door had was shattered. So
Speaker 1: the perpetrator came upstairs surprise, share surprise, Sherry tried to
Speaker 1: shoot her twice. Scherry somehow manages to get downstairs and
Speaker 1: tries to reach for the panic button on the alarm system,
Speaker 1: but the killer stops her and they start fighting. Sherry
Speaker 1: at one point must have managed to get the gun
Speaker 1: away from the killer and put the killer in a headlock,
Speaker 1: and then the killer bit her to get her free.
Speaker 1: So when the kill, that's when the killer hit her
Speaker 1: with the vase, which incapacitated her long enough to get
Speaker 1: the gun back, and then that's when she was shot.
Speaker 1: And then they took the quilts and fired the two
Speaker 1: more shots through at point blank range to make sure
Speaker 1: the job was done. So then the killer tried to
Speaker 1: stage the scene to look like an interrupted burglary, Like
Speaker 1: there were CD player and like VCR and stuff like
Speaker 1: stacked on top of each other that had like a
Speaker 1: bloody fingerprint on it, so they made it seem like
Speaker 1: it was a burglary interrupted. And the detectives working on
Speaker 1: the case in nine noticed in that original message where
Speaker 1: it said po next to Stephanie Lazarus's name, They're like,
Speaker 1: what does that mean? And then they figured out it
Speaker 1: was police officer, So they looked her up and they
Speaker 1: found that as of two thousand and nine, she was
Speaker 1: still working in the art theft division. Hello our friend
Speaker 1: joystart management a small This is a small squad that
Speaker 1: investigates art theft and fraud, right across the hall from homicide.
Speaker 2: So they goed and love that homicide and art or
Speaker 2: her next to you.
Speaker 1: I know, but like apparently she was great at her job.
Speaker 1: She had like she had been building up this really
Speaker 1: big case for three years against this person who had
Speaker 1: like stolen art from an old person and was kind
Speaker 1: of like participating in elder abuse and like there was
Speaker 1: this like a valuable piece of art. Anyway, that case
Speaker 1: went to shit and I'll tell you you'll find out
Speaker 1: very soon.
Speaker 3: Why. So they call John Rutten, the you know, the
Speaker 3: husband in.
Speaker 1: The case, and he was like, yeah, you guys have
Speaker 1: always known about her, but I don't think she did it,
Speaker 1: and he refused to believe that she had anything to
Speaker 1: do with it. Then they called Nell's the dad, Who's like,
Speaker 1: are you actually fucking kidding me? Like, I've been calling
Speaker 1: you guys and telling you guys about this fucking woman forever,
Speaker 1: Like how are you just calling me now in two
Speaker 1: thousand and nine years after this crime, twenty three years
Speaker 1: after this crime and asking me about this woman. So
Speaker 1: they start thinking about it how a cop would do this,
Speaker 1: Like how would a cop do this crime? And how
Speaker 1: would they cover it up? First of all, they would
Speaker 1: do it on and off. They wouldn't do it while
Speaker 1: they were working, So it must have been a day
Speaker 1: that they were off duty, a day off. They find out, yes,
Speaker 1: Stephanie was off on the day of the murder. What
Speaker 1: about the gun? A cop would never use their service
Speaker 1: weapon because obviously that's very traceable, But most cops have
Speaker 1: more than one gun. So they found out that she actually,
Speaker 1: after she graduated college, had registered for a thirty eight,
Speaker 1: which is the weapon used in the murder, and that
Speaker 1: she had reported it stolen a few weeks after the
Speaker 1: murder had taken place in Santa Monica. All this information
Speaker 1: was right there for the cops to find too in
Speaker 1: nineteen eighty six. They just never fucking looked for it,
Speaker 1: Like they never even checked into Stephanie Lazarus's background, Like
Speaker 1: what was she doing that day?
Speaker 3: Oh, she was off.
Speaker 1: Does she own any weapons? Oh yeah, she owns the
Speaker 1: murder weapon. Like so much crazy lazy police work. So
Speaker 1: now these guys need her DNA, okay, but they don't
Speaker 1: want to ask her for it. They want to get
Speaker 1: it sneaky style to not alert her that they're onto her.
Speaker 1: So they follow her and her adopted daughter to a
Speaker 1: trip to Costco and after they eat, they grab the
Speaker 1: drink cup that she leaves behind. Classic you don't think
Speaker 1: this shit happens, It happens. And then the DNA from
Speaker 1: the bite on sherry was done done a match.
Speaker 2: So I'm just scared, Like the dad is dead by
Speaker 2: this point and never saw justice or did he know?
Speaker 3: Okay? So in jew the whole fucking Department.
Speaker 1: In June two thousand and nine, they bring in to
Speaker 1: talk to her and and you can watch the entire
Speaker 1: interrogation on YouTube and it is in the show notes,
Speaker 1: and it's wild, like you just can like tell she's guilty,
Speaker 1: but she's also like.
Speaker 3: This is what what are we talking about? This is crazy,
Speaker 3: like it's it's nuts.
Speaker 2: And did she look super hot? Was she wearing a
Speaker 2: tube star? I think those days are behind her.
Speaker 1: She has kind of a wild face, like one of
Speaker 1: the articles described her as having like an elastic face,
Speaker 1: like like big expressions and like that is kind of
Speaker 1: what she looks like. But I also think people overact
Speaker 1: a little bit when they're guilty. So they bring her in.
Speaker 1: At first, the questioning is very casual. They're like, so,
Speaker 1: we're working on this cold case. Had you ever met Sherry?
Speaker 1: And she was like, god, I don't know. Like it's
Speaker 1: very like the way that we're talking to Dana Lewis
Speaker 1: at the beginning, maybe at a party. I really it
Speaker 1: is so long ago, I can't really remember, and like
Speaker 1: it was twenty three years ago, but it's like you
Speaker 1: would remember meeting your ex boyfriend's like, new wife, I
Speaker 1: don't know, you just would and at least meeting her
Speaker 1: at one point, maybe not exactly what you talked about,
Speaker 1: but meeting she's like, yeah.
Speaker 3: I think her name was Shelley Sherry.
Speaker 1: So she's pulling all that shit like you haven't been
Speaker 1: thinking about this for the past twenty three years NonStop.
Speaker 1: So she's sighing and saying geez a lot and like
Speaker 1: really putting on an act, like what geez, what do
Speaker 1: you guys? I mean it's like, yeah, okay, I saw
Speaker 1: her one time at her work. It's not like we
Speaker 1: went to lunch or something like. It's wild and they're
Speaker 1: asking her if she ever had a physical altercation with Sherry,
Speaker 1: and she just kept saying, that doesn't sound familiar. I
Speaker 1: don't recall that, like super super off the wall. This
Speaker 1: is like incredible, and she's remembering. As they keep going,
Speaker 1: her memory is coming back more and more like, yeah,
Speaker 1: maybe I did talk to her at her work one time,
Speaker 1: and yeah, like maybe I did talk to a detective
Speaker 1: after she died. She says she found out about the
Speaker 1: murder from a poster at her work like that, like
Speaker 1: he didn't call her, she didn't know from him like whatever.
Speaker 1: So she got pissed eventually and is like, are you
Speaker 1: accusing me? Do I need a lawyer? And they're like, no,
Speaker 1: you're here of your own free will. You can leave,
Speaker 1: and she didn't. But then later, after more and more questioning,
Speaker 1: she does walk out, and as soon as she walks out,
Speaker 1: they formally cuff her and arrest her. Okay, and she
Speaker 1: keeps saying, this is crazy, this is absolutely insane. That's
Speaker 1: what she keeps repeating as they're arresting her.
Speaker 3: And she was.
Speaker 1: Apparently, as I said before, mostly beloved by colleagues, and
Speaker 1: people were very shocked to hear about that she could
Speaker 1: have had something to do with this. But a few
Speaker 1: colleagues actually said that she could get angry kind of
Speaker 1: on a whim, and they had a nickname for her,
Speaker 1: which was Spazarus. And I mean, obviously that's a problematic word.
Speaker 1: I'm not using it. This was the you know, eighties
Speaker 1: and nineties. So she was allowed to retire early from
Speaker 1: the LAPD. After her arrest, It's like, yeah, duh, she
Speaker 1: will not be coming back to the squad.
Speaker 3: I don't think.
Speaker 1: So. She was arraigned in July of two thousand and nine,
Speaker 1: she pled not guilty. There wasn't a bail hearing for
Speaker 1: six months, which is nuts, Like it is wild to
Speaker 1: sit in jail for six months waiting for a bail hearing,
Speaker 1: but but she deserves it, right, But bail was said
Speaker 1: at ten million dollars, which is like double what the
Speaker 1: prosecutors even asked for, and her lawyer was like Robert
Speaker 1: Blake and Phil Spector, both on trial for murder that
Speaker 1: they most definitely committed, both got one million dollar bail
Speaker 1: and they're like millionaires.
Speaker 3: So yeah, but you're a cop, Yeah, you know what
Speaker 3: I mean.
Speaker 2: I'm sorry, Like you're a murdering cop and rotten jail
Speaker 2: for six months, like I give a shit, yeah, no
Speaker 2: problems destroying evidence, and like.
Speaker 3: The amount is just shocking.
Speaker 1: It's like, yeah, but why aren't you giving ten million
Speaker 1: dollars to millionaires who killed their girlfriends? Like I don't
Speaker 1: know that they could be getting ten million as well,
Speaker 1: but I see what you're saying, Like it is more
Speaker 1: like an abuse of power, and I'm sure they like
Speaker 1: look down on it more. But eventually a judge like
Speaker 1: set aside some charges that would have allowed them to
Speaker 1: go for the death penalty.
Speaker 3: Also I am just reading in this at this.
Speaker 1: Point in my research, I read for the first time
Speaker 1: that the marriage certificate was stolen in the attack. So
Speaker 1: this woman was like full on scorched earth. Hell, hath
Speaker 1: no fury, like a woman scorned stole the marriage certificate wild,
Speaker 1: I can't even so. I don't know why this trial
Speaker 1: lasted for like two and a half years. I think
Speaker 1: it's because her lawyer had like a million pre trial
Speaker 1: motions and they all had to be heard, and it
Speaker 1: was like trying to exclude her the warrant of stuff
Speaker 1: they found in her house because her house like didn't
Speaker 1: exist when the murder happened, trying to exclude all this
Speaker 1: other stuff. But in March of twenty twelve, she was
Speaker 1: convicted for the murder of Sherry Rasmussen. She was sentenced
Speaker 1: to twenty seven years in jail. She has attempted to
Speaker 1: appeal her case several times about lower courts have upheld
Speaker 1: the conviction, and she is serving her sentence at the
Speaker 1: California Institute for Women in Corona, and after credit for
Speaker 1: time served before the trial, she will be eligible for
Speaker 1: parole in December of twenty thirty four, which is in
Speaker 1: twelve years so the Rasmussins did sue Lazarus and the LAPD.
Speaker 1: I found both of the cases online, but real law
Speaker 1: cases are extremely hard to read.
Speaker 3: My mind cannot like absorb them. But I found out that.
Speaker 1: But essentially Nells's case was dropped as time barred because
Speaker 1: they waited too long to file it, I guess. And
Speaker 1: then all the lawsuits were either were dropped against the
Speaker 1: LAPD or were found in favor of the LAPD. So
Speaker 1: apparently a reinvestigation by the department did not find that
Speaker 1: there was any evidence of an internal cover up.
Speaker 3: Of course, but you know.
Speaker 1: I don't really think they have an IAB guy like
Speaker 1: Tucker trying to fuck the cops over all the time.
Speaker 1: He's probably like high fiving them, like, oh do you
Speaker 1: burn that box of evidence? The missing evidence from the
Speaker 1: case file is a complete like mystery. It remains completely
Speaker 1: unknown what happens to that evidence. And uh, as I
Speaker 1: was reading this, I was like, how has this not
Speaker 1: been a movie?
Speaker 3: How has this not been turned into a movie?
Speaker 1: Like this is a wild case, like this would be
Speaker 1: at worst a lifetime movie, but at best you could
Speaker 1: make it into like a super cool, like.
Speaker 3: Psycho sexual thriller.
Speaker 1: So I find a Deadline article that Endeavor and Anonymous
Speaker 1: Content acquired the rights to Matthew mcguff's book The Lazarus
Speaker 1: Files colon a cold case investigation. This is a book
Speaker 1: about the case. I used one of his articles as
Speaker 1: a source that he wrote in The Atlantic. This is
Speaker 1: a book about the case and the LAPD cover up
Speaker 1: that this guy worked on for nine years and he
Speaker 1: also did a podcast about it. So it turns out
Speaker 1: that the woman who created Remember when we talked about
Speaker 1: the act and Gypsy Rose and how this woman wrote
Speaker 1: an article and then go and then sold the rights
Speaker 1: to the act to her article.
Speaker 3: She sold the rights to her article.
Speaker 1: And created the act, and I feel like Gypsy Rose
Speaker 1: was like pissed to her. So this woman who wrote
Speaker 1: that Gypsy Rose article and created the act is the
Speaker 1: one who has been hired to adapt this into a
Speaker 1: TV show.
Speaker 3: Her name is Michelle Dean and she was This.
Speaker 1: Is an article from March of twenty twenty one, So
Speaker 1: maybe it's still in the works, but it's been a
Speaker 1: year and a half.
Speaker 3: Maybe it got scrapped. I'm like, can I write it
Speaker 3: like I'm upset? Let us in?
Speaker 1: Yeah, let us in, Like I think this could be
Speaker 1: such a cool movie. And like it's the Vanity Fair article.
Speaker 1: I you know, all who play hard? Who I play hard?
Speaker 1: And my notes or what like, all my sources are great,
Speaker 1: but this Vanity Fair article is like great because they
Speaker 1: bounce back and forth between bits of her interrogation and
Speaker 1: what happened in like real in the case timeline, and
Speaker 1: they just go back and forth, and I feel like
Speaker 1: it's cool. It's like a cool article the way they
Speaker 1: did so I could see why I could see that
Speaker 1: article being optioned for you know, but I think that
Speaker 1: his article may have done the same thing.
Speaker 3: Mcguff's article did the same thing. So whatever.
Speaker 1: This man, Matthew McGough worked very hard on this case
Speaker 1: and I hope that he gets some TV money out
Speaker 1: of it.
Speaker 3: But that's that. And they took a lot of it.
Speaker 1: Like in SVU it was nineteen eighty seven, in real
Speaker 1: life it was eighty six. Like there were just like
Speaker 1: tons of tons of similarities.
Speaker 3: Yeah, damn.
Speaker 1: She still maintains her innocence. I mean, like she never
Speaker 1: said like, all right, fuck it, I did it. But
Speaker 1: you know, I think if you've been lying to yourself
Speaker 1: and covering up a crime for twenty three years.
Speaker 3: You might actually you didn't do it. Who knows.
Speaker 2: I'm like looking at her face trying to think who
Speaker 2: would play her, and I can't. I'm not casting it
Speaker 2: as quick as i'd like. Oh yeah, let me look,
Speaker 2: we'll figure it out before it airs.
Speaker 3: We'll do it. I don't know.
Speaker 1: Yeah, let's go to our interview and in our post mortem,
Speaker 1: we will cast this woman. Guys, our guest today is
Speaker 1: an actor who has positively affected the lives of literally thousands,
Speaker 1: if not millions, of children multiple generations. Best known for
Speaker 1: portraying Gordon Robinson on a little show you may have
Speaker 1: heard of called Sesame Street for forty two gd years.
Speaker 1: He's also been featured on the series The Wire and
Speaker 1: Blue Bloods, but today you know him as former case
Speaker 1: detective Jerome Howard, now living the good life in a
Speaker 1: crazy sweater of retirement. Please enjoy our chat with Roscoe Orman.
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, this is thrilling.
Speaker 3: I can't. We were talking to a legend. Amazing. Well,
Speaker 3: we got to know, how often are people stopping you
Speaker 3: on the streets? How old Eli Gordon?
Speaker 4: Well that's that's that's the main attraction for viewers, you know,
Speaker 4: after what forty years of Sesame Street is you know,
Speaker 4: it's pretty phenomenal. Actually yeah, but I've done you know,
Speaker 4: so many other projects. You know, of course, theater, live theater,
Speaker 4: you know, Broadway off Broadway, regional theater, you know, so
Speaker 4: many different I forget most of what I've done.
Speaker 2: I feel like when people see you, it's like when
Speaker 2: you see a teacher outside of school or something like,
Speaker 2: I just can't imagine, like a kid, like if.
Speaker 1: You can't see you after they've seen you on Sesame Street,
Speaker 1: it's like, what so you said you don't remember a
Speaker 1: lot of stuff you've done, which makes sense you've had
Speaker 1: a very long career, but do you remember your SBUs?
Speaker 1: That's what we're here to talk about, of course, and
Speaker 1: like we're here to talk about the episode that you
Speaker 1: were in Secrets Zoomed. But as I was doing the research,
Speaker 1: I was like, oh my gosh, I forgot that. We
Speaker 1: we've already covered the episode's signature and you were in
Speaker 1: that episode as well where you found the dead body.
Speaker 1: And we got so many messages from our listeners that
Speaker 1: were like, you guys didn't mention that that was Gordon
Speaker 1: from Sesame Street, And we were like, oh, sorry.
Speaker 4: Wow, that's that's really something I had no idea.
Speaker 1: Yeah, because it was just like you're you know, your
Speaker 1: scene is like you're with a kid and you guys
Speaker 1: find the dead body and the scene is so gross
Speaker 1: that I think I was focused on that and not
Speaker 1: on you.
Speaker 7: Yes, and I was a park ranger if.
Speaker 3: From that message, yeah, yeah, yeah, yes, Wow.
Speaker 7: It brings brings back some memories, you know.
Speaker 1: So when you did so, I mean obviously SVU is
Speaker 1: like could not be a further walk away from Sesame Street, right,
Speaker 1: Like it's a completely different type of show.
Speaker 4: There is one other thing I did well, actually two
Speaker 4: that are really far removed from Sesame Street. One was
Speaker 4: All my Children, but I was a bad guy and
Speaker 4: I was doing Gordon, you know, simultaneously, so it was like,
Speaker 4: you know, who is this guy?
Speaker 7: Is he? Is he Gordon? Or or is he Tyrone?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 1: And I used to watch All My Children when I
Speaker 1: was really little, So I bet if I had ever
Speaker 1: caught you and then caught you on Sesame Street, that
Speaker 1: would have been a really confusing, very confused.
Speaker 6: Mm hmm.
Speaker 4: My uh little you know time with Tyrone on on
Speaker 4: uh All my Children was it was kind of looked
Speaker 4: down upon that this guy who was you know, uh
Speaker 4: on a children's show was was also a pimp on
Speaker 4: on All My Children. Yeah, so that was that was
Speaker 4: something that I had to kind of, yeah, you know,
Speaker 4: recover from.
Speaker 7: And you know, I wasn't. I didn't have to you know,
Speaker 7: leave leave the Sesame Street for having appeared.
Speaker 3: I mean, isn't that what acting is all about.
Speaker 7: Right, exactly exactly?
Speaker 3: The pimp one day, Big Birds from the next.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Well, I guess because they're both on during the day,
Speaker 1: there is a possibility. Like with SVU, it's like s
Speaker 1: fews on at ten o'clock at night. Kids really shouldn't
Speaker 1: be watching they shouldn't be awake watching TV. But all
Speaker 1: my children, I guess it would be confusing if you
Speaker 1: were checking around for PBS and you see.
Speaker 7: Yeah, yeah, and that I can, I can.
Speaker 4: I can really identify with that, Yes, especially since I
Speaker 4: have you know, five children of my own who yeh,
Speaker 4: you know, of course they know that I'm really dead,
Speaker 4: you know.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Well, can I ask a question about Sesame Street
Speaker 1: and I don't Maybe this doesn't make any sense, but
Speaker 1: was there a specific Sesame Street character that you felt
Speaker 1: like you connected with the best, like you an Oscar.
Speaker 3: You like, Who's who's the guy?
Speaker 4: Uh Well, my favorite, uh character among the puppets was Elmo, oh, Elma,
Speaker 4: Elmo Almo.
Speaker 7: Frank Oz, who was the puppeteer was it is, I
Speaker 7: should say, a genius.
Speaker 4: I mean he has so much he brings so much humor,
Speaker 4: and you know, he's so quick on his feet he
Speaker 4: makes up stuff that and if and of course if
Speaker 4: you're working with him, you have to really, you know,
Speaker 4: be on your toes because he's he's that good. He's
Speaker 4: able to, you know, create on the moment, you know.
Speaker 4: And uh so it was always always fun to working
Speaker 4: with him. I've worked with Frank Frank Oz a few times.
Speaker 4: Not Frank Frank, Jim Henson. Jim Henson of course worked
Speaker 4: with him quite a bit. Carol Spinney of course, who
Speaker 4: played the Big Bird and Oscar the Grouds both Oh wow, yeah,
Speaker 4: Oscar the Grouch and who was a grouch and of
Speaker 4: course big.
Speaker 7: Bird who is the sweetest natured thing human or not human?
Speaker 3: But how did she do both? Because I feel like
Speaker 3: Big Bird in Oscar.
Speaker 7: His name is Carol, Carol the Guy A R R
Speaker 7: O L. Carol Spinney, But he.
Speaker 1: Do both and what did he do when when Big
Speaker 1: Bird and Oscar had to interact they didn't.
Speaker 3: Oh, I can't believe it. I don't think I ever
Speaker 3: noticed that.
Speaker 2: Which Muppet do you think would sadly be on s
Speaker 2: v U as a criminal?
Speaker 4: Oh?
Speaker 6: My goodness, I guess Cookie Monster the most. Yes, yes,
Speaker 6: and Cookie Monster was Oh gee, who played.
Speaker 4: That was Frank also Frank Genius, Yeah, he did Cookie
Speaker 4: Monster and Grover Wow?
Speaker 3: Wow?
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean I guess I could also see Oscar
Speaker 1: the Grouge finding a body.
Speaker 3: You know, of course he's in the garbage, so you
Speaker 3: know he can be on the show too.
Speaker 7: And then there was also Elmo. I don't know if
Speaker 7: you remember remember Elmo?
Speaker 3: How can you forget?
Speaker 7: I cannot remember the Little Red Monster.
Speaker 1: No, there's something weird about Elmo, like the way that
Speaker 1: like kids are obsessed with Elmo right away. Like my
Speaker 1: three year old saw Elmo like just on a thumbnail
Speaker 1: once and was like that, I want to watch that,
Speaker 1: and you.
Speaker 4: Know, identify with him because yeah, he's the kid, he's
Speaker 4: the kid in the book, you know, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 4: Some wonderful times. You know, we had so much fun,
Speaker 4: you know, and we were we were like family.
Speaker 7: Anyway.
Speaker 4: You know, we knew those characters, you know, as personal
Speaker 4: friends and their creators you know, were just geniuses.
Speaker 2: Now when you go on sets, like when you showed
Speaker 2: up on SVU, were people extra to see you?
Speaker 3: I'm assuming people.
Speaker 7: Well if they grew up watching Yeah.
Speaker 3: For this one though, did you know Harold's paranow from.
Speaker 7: Oh yes, of course, yeah Harold, yes, yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, he was like the main bad guy in this one,
Speaker 1: but not really well well no, not in the end,
Speaker 1: but yeah, but he you know, the twist is that
Speaker 1: it's not him, but uh, but you are playing this
Speaker 1: cop that they go back to, you know, check on
Speaker 1: your info from when you were and you were like
Speaker 1: really easy, breezy, like I believed you were a cop completely,
Speaker 1: Like I wasn't getting boredon anymore at all.
Speaker 3: Like have you been a cop before?
Speaker 7: I've played severals?
Speaker 1: Okay, yeah, I think I saw you were on the wire.
Speaker 1: You played a car of course, yeah, yeah, yeah, because
Speaker 1: you're just like sliding right into the cop language and
Speaker 1: just talking to them like you were another cop.
Speaker 2: And it was like the very yeah, we need you
Speaker 2: back on SVUS A criminal you know, you played a cop,
Speaker 2: you played a park ranger.
Speaker 3: We need you back.
Speaker 2: No more.
Speaker 1: Mister, you should really explore your you got to murder
Speaker 1: somebody or something.
Speaker 3: Absolutely, hopefully they're listening. Yeah, thank you so much.
Speaker 2: Do you have any other stories from Lawn Order, SVU
Speaker 2: or anything you'd like to share with me?
Speaker 3: It was a long time ago, long yeah yeah, mmmm.
Speaker 4: Well, you know, I love I still love doing live theater,
Speaker 4: and whenever I have have the chance to be on stage,
Speaker 4: you know, whether it's off Broadway, regional theater, you know,
Speaker 4: or Broadway, you know, I just love that experience of
Speaker 4: being with a live audience of people who give you
Speaker 4: all that energy because you know they're in the moment too,
Speaker 4: you know, And so that's that's my favorite.
Speaker 1: Well, I hope we see you on a stage too,
Speaker 1: And thank you so much for taking the time to
Speaker 1: talk to us.
Speaker 3: Absolutely, what a sweetie, such a sweet man.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, I love Gordon slash Roscoe h slash
Speaker 1: Jerome slash Jerome slash Grandpa.
Speaker 3: I really loved it.
Speaker 2: You know what, I just realized I didn't mention in
Speaker 2: the intro that I'm really passionate about. I was with
Speaker 2: someone that worked on SVU and I got iced Tea's
Speaker 2: lunch order, texted Cara.
Speaker 3: No response.
Speaker 1: I like, when I looked at the time stamp of it,
Speaker 1: it was the second I got on the highway to
Speaker 1: drive two and a half hours back from San Diego
Speaker 1: to LA.
Speaker 3: And then I just forgo. I was like, Lisa's texting
Speaker 3: me about like hot dogs and iced tea. I don't
Speaker 3: know what's going on. And then I just completely forgot
Speaker 3: to respond.
Speaker 1: And later I get the I cannot believe you didn't
Speaker 1: respond to the sext, and I'm like, I'm so sorry.
Speaker 2: Well, so, for those wondering, he eats one of three
Speaker 2: things every day for lunch, either two hot talks. One
Speaker 2: is a chili cheese, one is a Sauer kraut mustard,
Speaker 2: or he has two slices of pizza, sausage or pepperoni.
Speaker 2: Or he orders a subway sandwich. The meatball sub with
Speaker 2: cheddar a legend. So I just love that he has that, Like,
Speaker 2: if you are that rich and still eating subway, you're
Speaker 2: a real one.
Speaker 3: Like sometimes Carti's husband. Are they married future?
Speaker 1: No, I don't think offset. I don't think they're married.
Speaker 1: I think they're just uh, you know, together. He eats
Speaker 1: like he eats really silly things.
Speaker 2: I wish I remember, like he'll make mac and cheese
Speaker 2: with ramen noodles and like weird stuff like that, Like
Speaker 2: I like people that's still kind of don't fully change.
Speaker 2: Like I'm sure Ice tease eating caviar once in a while.
Speaker 1: Oh wait, I'm an asshole. I just looked it up.
Speaker 1: Cardian Offset got married on my birthday in twenty seventeen,
Speaker 1: and they're still marriage dum according to according to their Yeah,
Speaker 1: according to the Internet.
Speaker 3: So I photos. Yeah, that's the thing. I don't think
Speaker 3: we did. I don't think we did.
Speaker 1: I think it was like one of those things they
Speaker 1: just got married and oh it says that they did
Speaker 1: it in their apartment on this one episode, this one
Speaker 1: thing I'm on. So but yeah, I love when that
Speaker 1: is funny, when like people like could literally be just
Speaker 1: eating sugarfish sushi, Like they could be eating like the
Speaker 1: best of the best, and they're like a subway Meatball's hub,
Speaker 1: give me that yoga matte bread and then putting me
Speaker 1: ball on it, and I want that. But this was
Speaker 1: a this was like another This is a banger of
Speaker 1: an episode. I fucking loved covering it. I don't know
Speaker 1: that there's any like lessons we could learn. Like I
Speaker 1: think it's like the lesson is like you're always going
Speaker 1: to get caught, even if you think you did it,
Speaker 1: like you got away with something. I feel like you're
Speaker 1: always gonna get caught. Like there's all these killers that
Speaker 1: we find decades later, you know, Golden State BTK, Like
Speaker 1: even people that didn't taunt the cops are getting caught.
Speaker 1: So just if you're listening to this podcast and you're
Speaker 1: a fucking murderer, you should know they're gonna find you.
Speaker 3: Yeah, just release it. Take the bricks on her shoulders, shoulders, babes.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 2: But we also this is a lesson we learned time
Speaker 2: and time again. Cops are not to be trusted. They
Speaker 2: will lie to protect themselves, they will do whatever it takes,
Speaker 2: like it truly so bad at their jobs, refusing to
Speaker 2: see outside of their opinions or actually do work, or
Speaker 2: listen to grieving parents trying to find the killers of.
Speaker 3: Their daughter, like they're truly trash.
Speaker 2: So I think we learned that, and we learned if
Speaker 2: you want to cost someone, we're a tube top, make
Speaker 2: a steak, yes, put.
Speaker 1: Those shorty shorts on, a little bit of that ass
Speaker 1: hanging out and get a tube top on and then
Speaker 1: get over to that girl's place and say if I
Speaker 1: can't have him, no one will.
Speaker 2: But then just don't murder her. And I know you
Speaker 2: guys wanted who's playing this person?
Speaker 3: We'll do a pole. I didn't even think I can.
Speaker 3: I know, I can't. I can't think. Okay, I can't
Speaker 3: think of it. She like looks so nuts.
Speaker 1: You know what, I bet Sandra Bullet could do a
Speaker 1: fun job kind of like you know, Sandy Bullock, playing
Speaker 1: like someone unhinged.
Speaker 3: She's never done that. I think that would be fun.
Speaker 3: She's a little un hinged in forces of nature, but
Speaker 3: not in a bad way. Yeah, not in a bad way. Yeah.
Speaker 3: So let's move on to what was Sister peg Do?
Speaker 1: Which is our weekly segment where we give you, guys
Speaker 1: an article, an organization, a book, something to give you
Speaker 1: more information about what we talked about today. And we
Speaker 1: want to direct you actually today to another podcast, not
Speaker 1: you know, don't leave us, but this is an episode
Speaker 1: Wicked Words, which is a podcast on our beloved Exactly
Speaker 1: Right Network where the host Kate interviews Matt McGoff. I
Speaker 1: think that's how you say his last name, Matt McGoff
Speaker 1: about his book The Lazarus Files, and we will link
Speaker 1: to that if you want more info from him, because
Speaker 1: he's really like the expert on this. I could never
Speaker 1: cover what he covered in nine years of researching this case.
Speaker 1: So definitely check out that episode. We will have it
Speaker 1: in our show notes of course, and it will be
Speaker 1: in our Instagram highlight titled what would Sister Peg Do
Speaker 1: WWSPD amazing.
Speaker 3: Thank you so much, I really want I don't know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, this is a wild case and I've bet lots
Speaker 2: of you want to know more like it is so interesting, So.
Speaker 3: Thank you for that. And next week please join us.
Speaker 2: We'll be doing Dominance season four, episode twenty for twenty
Speaker 2: so get stoned and watch a horrific crime and great
Speaker 2: acting and great sexy guest stars.
Speaker 3: Okay, bye, bye, guys, see you next week.
Speaker 2: That's Messed Up as an exactly right production.
Speaker 1: If you have compliments you'd like to give us or
Speaker 1: episodes you'd like us to cover, shoot us an email
Speaker 1: it That's messed uppod at gmail dot.
Speaker 2: Com, follow the podcast on Instagram at That's Messed Up
Speaker 2: Pod and on Twitter at messed Up Pod, and follow
Speaker 2: us personally at Kara Klank and at Glitter.
Speaker 1: As always, please see our show notes for sources and
Speaker 1: more information.
Speaker 3: Thank you so much to our producer Kac O'Brien.
Speaker 1: And to our mixer John Bradley and our guest booker
Speaker 1: Patrick Cotner, and to.
Speaker 2: Henry Kaperski for our theme song, and Carly Geen Andrews
Speaker 2: for our artwork.
Speaker 1: Thank you to our executive producers Georgia hard Start, Karen Kilgarriff,
Speaker 1: Daniel Kramer, and everybody at Exactly Right Media.
Speaker 4: Dun Dun