WEBVTT - Hell and Gone Murder Line: Jason Lierl Part 1

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<v Speaker 1>School of Humans.

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<v Speaker 2>Last week and the week before last, we talked about

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<v Speaker 2>the murder of Billy Jean Phillips.

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<v Speaker 1>Billy Jean was.

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<v Speaker 2>Brutally beaten to death at her home in Madison County, Arkansas,

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<v Speaker 2>in September of nineteen ninety four. Clint Phillips, who was

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<v Speaker 2>just seventeen years old when Billy Jean was murdered, was

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<v Speaker 2>eventually charged with and tried for her murder. But in

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<v Speaker 2>September of two thousand and three, Clint Phillips was acquitted

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<v Speaker 2>of Billy Jean's murder. He walked out of court a freeman,

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<v Speaker 2>and as we also said last week, the community was

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<v Speaker 2>divided over whether police had gotten the right guy in

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<v Speaker 2>the first place, whether they were prosecuting the right man.

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<v Speaker 2>Clint Phillips has always denied any involvement in Billy Jean

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<v Speaker 2>phillips murder. He's always maintained his innocence, but no one

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<v Speaker 2>else was ever arrested or charged with this murder.

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<v Speaker 1>Jean's killer is still out there.

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<v Speaker 2>Clint Phillips continued to live in the area around Huntsville.

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<v Speaker 2>He's now forty seven years old, and the name Clint

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<v Speaker 2>Phillips came up again in a very strange way almost

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<v Speaker 2>thirty years later, when I was looking into the disappearance

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<v Speaker 2>of a forty one year old man named Jason Lyrell

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<v Speaker 2>in January of twenty twenty two. Jason Lyrell was visiting

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<v Speaker 2>friends in Madison County, Arkansas, when he vanished without a trace.

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<v Speaker 2>Jason was last seen in Madison County, Arkansas. His abandoned

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<v Speaker 2>car was found in the parking lot of a mall

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<v Speaker 2>in Fayettville, Arkansas.

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<v Speaker 1>His car, keys, motorcycle.

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<v Speaker 2>And some other belongings were found in several different places

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<v Speaker 2>spread out across Arkansas and Missouri, but to this day,

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<v Speaker 2>no trace of Jason Lyrell has ever been found. On

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<v Speaker 2>February thirteenth, twenty twenty two, a few weeks after Jason disappeared,

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<v Speaker 2>a deputy was transporting an inmate to the Barry County Jail.

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<v Speaker 2>This person had been arrested for shoplifting charges, and according

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<v Speaker 2>to the arrest report, the suspect had blood on his

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<v Speaker 2>hands and all over his clothing. The man said that

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<v Speaker 2>he'd had a seizure and needed medical treatment. After he

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<v Speaker 2>got it and was brought back to the jail and

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<v Speaker 2>was being processed, he shocked the police officer on duty

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<v Speaker 2>when he said that he had information about Jason Lerell's

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<v Speaker 2>disappearance and that Madison County would want to talk to

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<v Speaker 2>him about a capital murder.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm Catherine Townsend.

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<v Speaker 2>If you have a case you'd like me and my

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<v Speaker 2>team to look into, you can reach out to us

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<v Speaker 2>at our Helen Gone Murder line at six seven eight

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<v Speaker 2>seven four four six ' one four or five. That

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<v Speaker 2>six seven eight seven four four six ' one four

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<v Speaker 2>or five. This is Helen Gone Murder line. When the

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<v Speaker 2>deputy asked the man his name, the man said that

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<v Speaker 2>his name was Clint Phillips. But then there's a crazy

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<v Speaker 2>twist in this case, because it didn't take long for

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<v Speaker 2>police to figure out that his mugshot did not match

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<v Speaker 2>Clint phillips photos or description, and that the real Clint Phillips,

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<v Speaker 2>the one who was arrested, tried, and eventually acquitted of

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<v Speaker 2>Billy Jean's murder almost thirty years ago, was currently incarcerated

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<v Speaker 2>somewhere else in the Cummings Unit on a completely unrelated charge.

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<v Speaker 2>So this guy with the blood on his clothes could

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<v Speaker 2>not have been Clint Phillips. The man in the cell

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<v Speaker 2>with the bloody clothes on was Jimmy Evans. He was

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<v Speaker 2>also a graduate along with Clint Phillips, Jason Lyrell, and

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<v Speaker 2>several other people who will come up later of Huntsville

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<v Speaker 2>High School. Jimmy Evans knew Clint Phillips, and he also

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<v Speaker 2>had known Jason Lerell when he was a kid.

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<v Speaker 1>But why did Jimmy say that he was Clint Phillips.

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<v Speaker 2>We're going to come back to Jimmy Evans his strange

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<v Speaker 2>story into this fateful night in February of twenty twenty two,

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<v Speaker 2>but first let's go back to Jason Lyrell and dive

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<v Speaker 2>into what was going on when he went missing. Jason

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<v Speaker 2>Lyrell grew up in Cincinnati, Ohio, before moving to the

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<v Speaker 2>area around Clifty, Arkansas. His sister, Sarah said that their

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<v Speaker 2>childhood was pretty rough and that she was one of

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<v Speaker 2>the closest people in the world to her brother. She

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<v Speaker 2>described Jason as kind, gentle, and someone with a great

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<v Speaker 2>sense of humor, someone who had issues in his life,

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<v Speaker 2>but someone who was loved.

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<v Speaker 1>By a lot of people.

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<v Speaker 3>You know, he definitely was somebody who very depressed on

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<v Speaker 3>like things from his own situation, but he was just

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<v Speaker 3>always wanting to cheer other people up and make other

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<v Speaker 3>people laugh, and just a really incredible person, a real

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<v Speaker 3>honest person with his feelings and very loving.

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<v Speaker 1>Sarah said that she and Jason struggled growing up.

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<v Speaker 3>Our mother left us in Ohio, had a very abusive

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<v Speaker 3>biological father. So my biological father had beaten my brother

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<v Speaker 3>Bobby to the point where he was taken into foster care,

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<v Speaker 3>and my sister and Jason and I all were removed

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<v Speaker 3>from the home and brought to my grandmother's in Arkansas,

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<v Speaker 3>where my grandmother sort of farmed my sister out to

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<v Speaker 3>the pastor of our church because she wasn't able to

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<v Speaker 3>handle a teenager. And so eventually our mom came and

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<v Speaker 3>got the only ones that were left on us, Jason

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<v Speaker 3>and I, and we moved back to Ohio for several years,

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<v Speaker 3>and then because of a bad situation with the person

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<v Speaker 3>that Jason and I then called our dad, and we

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<v Speaker 3>ended up having to come back down to Arkansas, and

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<v Speaker 3>so that's where Jason and I finished school, graduated, and

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<v Speaker 3>just kind of made our lives.

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<v Speaker 2>She described Jason as her best friend, someone who always

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<v Speaker 2>had her back, so they had a super tight bond.

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<v Speaker 2>Sarah said they were always there for each other over

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<v Speaker 2>the years, Jason struggled with different issues, including addictions to

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<v Speaker 2>drugs and alcohol. He tried to maintain his sobriety, and

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<v Speaker 2>it seems like he was able to at least sometimes.

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<v Speaker 2>Twenty twenty one, Jason had a very rough year. Back

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<v Speaker 2>in twenty ten, Jason married his wife, Jamaica. They had

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<v Speaker 2>a son together, and Jason also helped raise Jamaica's young son,

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<v Speaker 2>who was apparently just four years old when they met.

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<v Speaker 2>This information, by the way, is according to Jamaica's social

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<v Speaker 2>media postings. But their marriage started to have problems. Whatever

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<v Speaker 2>was going on. He was having some emotional issues, and

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<v Speaker 2>according to things that Jamaica has put on social media,

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<v Speaker 2>this is also a time when he apparently got back

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<v Speaker 2>into drugs. Whatever was going on, Jason Lirell was clearly

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<v Speaker 2>in distress. His marriage to Jamaica was breaking up, and

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<v Speaker 2>he was worried about the divorce and about what it

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<v Speaker 2>would mean for his future. Jason and Jamaica officially separated

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<v Speaker 2>in May of twenty twenty one. That's when Sarah says

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<v Speaker 2>Jason moved in with her to an apartment in Fayetteville,

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<v Speaker 2>which is about thirty miles away from where he'd been

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<v Speaker 2>living in Madison County. Sometime during all this, Jason also

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<v Speaker 2>got into a car accident. Sarah helped him get access

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<v Speaker 2>to a car so that he would have a vehicle

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<v Speaker 2>to drive to work and to ride around in. She

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<v Speaker 2>was basically doing everything that she could to help Jason

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<v Speaker 2>get his life together. Jason and Jamaica's divorce case was

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<v Speaker 2>playing out over the summer of twenty twenty one. Jamaica

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<v Speaker 2>filed for custody of their son. Jason won a joint

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<v Speaker 2>custody and for a while, according to Sarah, it seemed

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<v Speaker 2>like Jason's life was getting back to some type of normality.

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<v Speaker 3>In that time frame of being in that apartment. We

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<v Speaker 3>ended up getting him a job at the university. We

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<v Speaker 3>hired one of the best attorneys in Fantel to be

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<v Speaker 3>his divorce attorney. You know, he started getting visitation with

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<v Speaker 3>his son. He was using a device that was recommended

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<v Speaker 3>through his attorney to monitor alcohol use, you know, to

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<v Speaker 3>show that he wasn't using alcohol. I mean things were

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<v Speaker 3>pretty normal. I mean he would pick up his son,

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<v Speaker 3>had his son over for you know, like every other weekend.

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<v Speaker 3>I don't know, we just had a lot of fun together.

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<v Speaker 2>Sarah said that December twenty twenty one was a happy

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<v Speaker 2>time for Jason. He and the family had a good holiday.

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<v Speaker 2>He saw his ex wife with his son on Christmas.

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<v Speaker 2>Even Christmas Day he spent time with Sarah and their

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<v Speaker 2>brother and the children. From what Sarah said, it was

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<v Speaker 2>a very happy time. Jason said he was looking forward

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<v Speaker 2>to the future. But then things started to change for Jason.

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<v Speaker 3>You know, December came, he was gone quite a bit

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<v Speaker 3>more than January. I just noticed that I didn't think

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<v Speaker 3>that he was even working at the university anymore. I

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<v Speaker 3>don't know exactly what happened at different points in January.

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<v Speaker 3>I don't know all of the people that he was

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<v Speaker 3>hanging around with. I just know that he was gone

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<v Speaker 3>quite a bit.

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<v Speaker 2>Sarah said she's not exactly sure what caused Jason to

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<v Speaker 2>go down a darker path, but at some point, maybe

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<v Speaker 2>on New Year's Eve, Sarah said, Jason was at a

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<v Speaker 2>bar and ran into some people who Sarah described as

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<v Speaker 2>people who had been old friends from back in the day,

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<v Speaker 2>people he used to hang out with, people who she said,

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<v Speaker 2>perhaps were not the best influences. It seems that around

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<v Speaker 2>this time Jason made the choice to start doing drugs again.

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<v Speaker 2>Then came this accidental text message. According to court records,

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<v Speaker 2>Jason sent a text about getting some rocket fuel, referring

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<v Speaker 2>to drugs, probably to meth. Apparently he accidentally sent that

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<v Speaker 2>text about getting drugs to his young son.

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<v Speaker 3>I know Jason definitely wasn't very tech savvy. I don't

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<v Speaker 3>know how you make a mistake like he did, But yeah,

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<v Speaker 3>I mean, shouldn't have Number one shouldn't have been sent

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<v Speaker 3>to his son. But number two just showed it was

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<v Speaker 3>that he was already going down a really bad.

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<v Speaker 1>Path at that point.

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<v Speaker 2>This made the divorce case take a darker turn. On

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<v Speaker 2>January eighteenth, twenty twenty two, Jason and his estranged wife

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<v Speaker 2>had a zoom mediation conference. She later said this was

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<v Speaker 2>the last time that she ever saw Jason. After that,

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<v Speaker 2>Jamaica and her attorney filed court papers requiring Jason to

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<v Speaker 2>take a drug test on January nineteenth. Jason was supposed

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<v Speaker 2>to show up by five pm that day for the

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<v Speaker 2>hair follicle test, but he didn't make that appointment. Jason

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<v Speaker 2>was apparently in the process of rescheduling for another date.

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<v Speaker 2>He spoke to his lawyer on January twenty fourth. After that,

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<v Speaker 2>Jason's lawyer never heard back from him again. I just

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<v Speaker 2>want to say that as you go through these social

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<v Speaker 2>media posts, it becomes clear that Jamaica and Sarah and

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<v Speaker 2>the rest of the family kind of appeared to have

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<v Speaker 2>a united front at first, but over time they seem

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<v Speaker 2>to have some different views of what exactly Jason was

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<v Speaker 2>doing at the time of his disappearance, and potentially how

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<v Speaker 2>much of that information should be shared and who it

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<v Speaker 2>should be shared with. This is super common, and I'm

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<v Speaker 2>bringing it up because I know when someone goes missing

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<v Speaker 2>it's incredibly hard on families. Everyone has their own version

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<v Speaker 2>of what the victim was like, what they would have

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<v Speaker 2>wanted out there and Jamaica later talked to a reporter

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<v Speaker 2>from the Madison County Register. This was after Jason went missing.

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<v Speaker 2>She said Jason was not living with Sarah, his sister,

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<v Speaker 2>but had been staying with different friends, kind of CouchSurfing

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<v Speaker 2>in Madison County. She said, quote, we have to get

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<v Speaker 2>the truth out there if we're going to find Jason,

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<v Speaker 2>if we're going to figure out what's happened and what's

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<v Speaker 2>occurred with him.

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<v Speaker 1>End quote. The reporter asked her about her theories.

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<v Speaker 2>Jamaica said she hoped that maybe Jason just needed a break.

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<v Speaker 2>At first, she said that she had hope that he

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<v Speaker 2>would be found safe. Jamaica said, quote, maybe he's taken

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<v Speaker 2>off because of his involvement with certain people. We're not

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<v Speaker 2>exactly sure, but I hope that they find him and

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<v Speaker 2>that he's safe.

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<v Speaker 1>End quote.

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<v Speaker 2>I cannot imagine how hard this must be, both for

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<v Speaker 2>Jason's sister and other family members and for his estranged wife.

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<v Speaker 2>And I can really see both sides of this because

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<v Speaker 2>Sarah is very clear Jason was living with her. On

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<v Speaker 2>the other hand, I also understand why potentially his estranged

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<v Speaker 2>wife would want to get information out there about the

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<v Speaker 2>people he's hanging around with, because that is very important.

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<v Speaker 2>You have to know everything good and bad about a victim,

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<v Speaker 2>even if they're not particularly flattering, if we're going to try.

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<v Speaker 1>To find him.

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<v Speaker 2>I would say that both things can also be true.

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<v Speaker 2>He may have been staying with friends for a couple

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<v Speaker 2>of days, but that does not mean that he wasn't

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<v Speaker 2>living with his sister.

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<v Speaker 1>So let's get back to Jason and his timeline.

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<v Speaker 2>The last time that Sarah was in touch with her

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<v Speaker 2>brother was on Monday, January twenty fourthenty twenty two. Sarah

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<v Speaker 2>has a job that involves a lot of travel. The

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<v Speaker 2>plan was that Jason was going to stay in their

0:14:12.565 --> 0:14:15.645
<v Speaker 2>apartment in Fayetteville and dog sit for her dog Witty

0:14:15.805 --> 0:14:20.685
<v Speaker 2>while she was away. Sarah believes the last time that

0:14:20.725 --> 0:14:23.845
<v Speaker 2>her brother texted her was on January twenty fourth, and

0:14:23.885 --> 0:14:26.965
<v Speaker 2>that the text messages she received from Jason's phone on

0:14:27.045 --> 0:14:30.925
<v Speaker 2>January twenty fifth may have been someone else, someone who

0:14:30.965 --> 0:14:34.045
<v Speaker 2>wanted to affect the timeline, someone who wanted to make

0:14:34.125 --> 0:14:37.365
<v Speaker 2>everyone believe that Jason was still around and still texting.

0:14:38.005 --> 0:14:41.725
<v Speaker 3>You know, I didn't obviously think about it in the moment,

0:14:42.285 --> 0:14:45.565
<v Speaker 3>because it's like, you don't think those things. I mean

0:14:45.645 --> 0:14:48.365
<v Speaker 3>to me, I'm talking to my brother, so you know,

0:14:48.445 --> 0:14:52.805
<v Speaker 3>if the text messages were strange, you know, I'm talking

0:14:52.805 --> 0:14:53.965
<v Speaker 3>to my brother, so I don't know.

0:14:54.045 --> 0:14:55.325
<v Speaker 1>It wasn't until.

0:14:54.965 --> 0:14:57.565
<v Speaker 3>Afterwards, you know, when that date kind of got thrown

0:14:57.605 --> 0:15:00.765
<v Speaker 3>out there as the day that he potentially was last seen,

0:15:01.805 --> 0:15:04.685
<v Speaker 3>and I look back at these messages, I'm just like, wow, Yeah,

0:15:05.045 --> 0:15:07.725
<v Speaker 3>this does don't look like Jason at all talking to me,

0:15:07.925 --> 0:15:10.805
<v Speaker 3>you know, even though it's Jason's phone number. It's just

0:15:11.485 --> 0:15:14.165
<v Speaker 3>the messages don't sound like Jason.

0:15:16.125 --> 0:15:19.725
<v Speaker 2>On Monday, January twenty fourth, at one fifty five pm,

0:15:20.165 --> 0:15:23.205
<v Speaker 2>Sarah wrote, hey, brother, will you be home this week?

0:15:23.325 --> 0:15:24.565
<v Speaker 1>Or should I get a pet sitter?

0:15:25.245 --> 0:15:28.525
<v Speaker 2>She got a message from Jason's phone a reply saying

0:15:28.605 --> 0:15:31.965
<v Speaker 2>he would be there tomorrow, meaning on January twenty fifth.

0:15:32.565 --> 0:15:35.805
<v Speaker 2>She texted Jason back, awesome, thank you. If you can't

0:15:35.845 --> 0:15:37.405
<v Speaker 2>be there at any point, let me know so I

0:15:37.405 --> 0:15:38.165
<v Speaker 2>can find someone.

0:15:38.365 --> 0:15:38.685
<v Speaker 1>Love you.

0:15:39.645 --> 0:15:42.845
<v Speaker 2>She got a reply from Jason's phone love you to sister,

0:15:43.205 --> 0:15:46.765
<v Speaker 2>I will see you tomorrow. Sarah believes that this was

0:15:46.805 --> 0:15:50.685
<v Speaker 2>the last text that her brother sent. The next day,

0:15:50.725 --> 0:15:54.165
<v Speaker 2>on Tuesday, January twenty fifth, at four oh four pm,

0:15:54.565 --> 0:15:56.565
<v Speaker 2>she got a message from Jason's phone.

0:15:57.005 --> 0:15:59.005
<v Speaker 1>It read hey, what up?

0:15:59.845 --> 0:16:02.565
<v Speaker 2>She responded, asking what was up with him giving him

0:16:02.565 --> 0:16:05.485
<v Speaker 2>the door code to their home. Their locks had recently

0:16:05.685 --> 0:16:08.845
<v Speaker 2>being changed the apartment complex changed them from having keys

0:16:08.885 --> 0:16:11.005
<v Speaker 2>to having a door code, and she needed to make.

0:16:10.845 --> 0:16:12.405
<v Speaker 1>Sure that he could use it. I mean he could

0:16:12.445 --> 0:16:12.765
<v Speaker 1>get in.

0:16:13.565 --> 0:16:16.645
<v Speaker 2>She said that the replies that she got did not

0:16:16.885 --> 0:16:20.325
<v Speaker 2>sound like they came from her brother. For one thing,

0:16:20.565 --> 0:16:23.925
<v Speaker 2>the text were misspelled, which she said, even when Jason

0:16:24.525 --> 0:16:27.885
<v Speaker 2>was drunk, She said, he would never misspell.

0:16:27.525 --> 0:16:30.565
<v Speaker 3>Texts like for instance, you know when he first came

0:16:30.605 --> 0:16:33.645
<v Speaker 3>to stay with me, like he was very intoxicated, but

0:16:33.805 --> 0:16:35.445
<v Speaker 3>he was a misspelling thing.

0:16:36.845 --> 0:16:40.525
<v Speaker 2>Then Sarah texted, are you in the house? He said, no,

0:16:40.845 --> 0:16:46.285
<v Speaker 2>I'm in Hinesville. Hinesville is a tiny little town in

0:16:46.405 --> 0:16:49.765
<v Speaker 2>Arkansas with a population of less than one hundred. It's

0:16:49.765 --> 0:16:54.165
<v Speaker 2>in Madison County. Sarah got a response from Jason's phone.

0:16:54.245 --> 0:16:57.965
<v Speaker 2>It just said okay with a thumbs up emoji. This

0:16:58.205 --> 0:17:00.605
<v Speaker 2>was the last text that she ever got from her

0:17:00.605 --> 0:17:06.005
<v Speaker 2>brother's phone. Sarah put off her work trip and stayed

0:17:06.005 --> 0:17:09.205
<v Speaker 2>close to home with her dog. She still had no

0:17:09.285 --> 0:17:12.365
<v Speaker 2>idea where Jason was. She was concerned, but at first

0:17:12.365 --> 0:17:14.925
<v Speaker 2>she hoped that he was just somewhere with friends. On

0:17:14.965 --> 0:17:18.045
<v Speaker 2>the twenty seventh, she sent Jason's phone another text.

0:17:18.485 --> 0:17:20.805
<v Speaker 1>It read where's Woody.

0:17:21.045 --> 0:17:24.205
<v Speaker 2>Sarah sent that text to see what Jason would say.

0:17:24.485 --> 0:17:27.085
<v Speaker 2>She knew he wasn't at her apartment because she was there,

0:17:27.205 --> 0:17:29.285
<v Speaker 2>but she wanted to try to get him to give

0:17:29.285 --> 0:17:32.925
<v Speaker 2>her a response. By the way, that text message wears

0:17:32.925 --> 0:17:35.725
<v Speaker 2>Woody on the twenty seventh was the first one that

0:17:35.805 --> 0:17:39.685
<v Speaker 2>Sarah sent that was green, not blue. This could mean

0:17:39.805 --> 0:17:43.685
<v Speaker 2>Jason was somewhere with poor reception or no WiFi, or

0:17:43.805 --> 0:17:46.525
<v Speaker 2>it could mean that for some reason his phone was

0:17:46.525 --> 0:17:51.805
<v Speaker 2>switched off. Detectives later told Sarah that that last text

0:17:51.805 --> 0:17:54.885
<v Speaker 2>that she sent on January twenty seventh, on that day,

0:17:55.405 --> 0:17:59.405
<v Speaker 2>her brother's phone last pinged in Carroll County, in an

0:17:59.445 --> 0:18:01.965
<v Speaker 2>area right where it intersects with both.

0:18:01.845 --> 0:18:03.325
<v Speaker 1>Madison and Benton Counties.

0:18:04.005 --> 0:18:07.285
<v Speaker 2>This is near Hinesville, near where Jason had said he

0:18:07.405 --> 0:18:12.205
<v Speaker 2>was hanging out the previous day. Sarah also described this area,

0:18:12.245 --> 0:18:15.165
<v Speaker 2>by the way, as being basically like the Bermuda Triangle.

0:18:15.885 --> 0:18:20.085
<v Speaker 2>It's a spot where exactly three counties intersect. There's also

0:18:20.285 --> 0:18:22.605
<v Speaker 2>a large lake right in the middle of that area.

0:18:23.365 --> 0:18:27.725
<v Speaker 2>She wrote on social media, quote Jason disappeared on or

0:18:27.765 --> 0:18:32.085
<v Speaker 2>around January twenty fifth, twenty twenty two from either two

0:18:32.165 --> 0:18:35.925
<v Speaker 2>four or five five zero Caps Ranches Road in Rogers, Arkansas,

0:18:36.405 --> 0:18:39.965
<v Speaker 2>or four thirty five Madison one to one zero one

0:18:40.085 --> 0:18:44.845
<v Speaker 2>in Huntsville, Arkansas, or another number of other places end quote.

0:18:45.365 --> 0:18:47.365
<v Speaker 2>And that's what she was referring to when she wrote

0:18:47.405 --> 0:18:49.365
<v Speaker 2>that those are some of the last addresses he was

0:18:49.405 --> 0:18:50.885
<v Speaker 2>known to be at, which we're going to get into

0:18:50.965 --> 0:18:54.045
<v Speaker 2>in a minute. But just the confusion about where he

0:18:54.125 --> 0:18:56.765
<v Speaker 2>was last seen. It's really hard in this case even

0:18:56.805 --> 0:18:58.765
<v Speaker 2>to verify the most basic information.

0:19:00.005 --> 0:19:02.045
<v Speaker 1>For those of you who are not from Arkansas.

0:19:02.325 --> 0:19:05.005
<v Speaker 2>Fayetteville, where Sarah lives, it's kind of like the Austin,

0:19:05.045 --> 0:19:08.245
<v Speaker 2>Texas of Arkansas, or like Athens, Georgia.

0:19:08.725 --> 0:19:10.205
<v Speaker 1>It's a cool college town.

0:19:10.285 --> 0:19:12.765
<v Speaker 2>It's where the University of Arkansas is located, and it's

0:19:12.805 --> 0:19:17.645
<v Speaker 2>a very affluent area in northwest Arkansas. Whereas Madison County

0:19:18.245 --> 0:19:21.845
<v Speaker 2>is very much a part of the Ozarks, the area

0:19:21.885 --> 0:19:25.885
<v Speaker 2>where Jason was staying, near Hinesville in Clifty is only

0:19:25.965 --> 0:19:28.685
<v Speaker 2>about thirty to forty miles away, but it's a totally

0:19:28.725 --> 0:19:32.165
<v Speaker 2>different world. It is very much a rural area, very

0:19:32.245 --> 0:19:35.125
<v Speaker 2>much in the backwoods. I mentioned this because this case

0:19:35.165 --> 0:19:38.525
<v Speaker 2>spreads out over several counties, as we've said, and from

0:19:38.525 --> 0:19:41.965
<v Speaker 2>the start there appeared to be some confusion about jurisdiction.

0:19:42.885 --> 0:19:46.245
<v Speaker 2>So let's go back to a few days after Jason

0:19:46.325 --> 0:19:51.085
<v Speaker 2>went missing January early February of twenty twenty two. It's

0:19:51.125 --> 0:19:53.485
<v Speaker 2>been a few days and Sarah has been sitting in

0:19:53.525 --> 0:19:57.245
<v Speaker 2>her apartment. She has not heard from her brother. Several

0:19:57.325 --> 0:19:59.845
<v Speaker 2>days after she last heard from Jason. A friend of

0:19:59.925 --> 0:20:02.725
<v Speaker 2>Jason's where he had been staying called Sarah to let

0:20:02.805 --> 0:20:05.725
<v Speaker 2>her know that Jason had not been back to pick

0:20:05.805 --> 0:20:10.365
<v Speaker 2>up his motorcycle. He loved his motorcycle. It was his

0:20:10.525 --> 0:20:15.005
<v Speaker 2>prize possession. So now after hearing that Jason did not

0:20:15.285 --> 0:20:17.725
<v Speaker 2>have his motorcycle with him he never came back to

0:20:17.765 --> 0:20:21.965
<v Speaker 2>get it, and after calling Jason's ex wife finding out

0:20:22.085 --> 0:20:23.805
<v Speaker 2>they haven't heard from him, he didn't show up for

0:20:23.805 --> 0:20:27.885
<v Speaker 2>his son's birthday. Now Sarah has gone from being worried

0:20:27.925 --> 0:20:30.565
<v Speaker 2>to being scared something bad could have happened to her brother.

0:20:31.805 --> 0:20:34.645
<v Speaker 2>She reported Jason as a missing person to the Washington

0:20:34.645 --> 0:20:38.285
<v Speaker 2>County Sheriff's Department. That's in Fayetteville, where Jason and Sarah

0:20:38.285 --> 0:20:42.925
<v Speaker 2>were living. Then apparently Madison County took over since that's

0:20:42.965 --> 0:20:45.245
<v Speaker 2>where Jason was last seen and where he had been

0:20:45.285 --> 0:20:49.725
<v Speaker 2>staying with friends. After reporting him missing, Sarah started putting

0:20:49.805 --> 0:20:52.845
<v Speaker 2>up missing posters, doing everything that she could to spread

0:20:52.845 --> 0:20:57.765
<v Speaker 2>the word, including creating the Facebook group Jason Lirel Missing Person.

0:20:59.285 --> 0:21:02.365
<v Speaker 2>Jason was described as having blonde hair and blue eyes.

0:21:02.965 --> 0:21:06.085
<v Speaker 2>He has two tattoos on his right arm, one word

0:21:06.125 --> 0:21:09.325
<v Speaker 2>that says cross and the numbers one eleven, twelve referring

0:21:09.325 --> 0:21:12.565
<v Speaker 2>to his son's birthday. There's also another tattoo of an

0:21:12.565 --> 0:21:13.965
<v Speaker 2>iron cross on his bicap.

0:21:16.445 --> 0:21:19.845
<v Speaker 3>When I first started speaking with the investigator who was

0:21:19.885 --> 0:21:25.125
<v Speaker 3>initially on it, really phenomenal investigator. I mean, I feel

0:21:25.125 --> 0:21:27.645
<v Speaker 3>like if he had been able to stay on this,

0:21:27.725 --> 0:21:30.085
<v Speaker 3>I feel like Jay would have been found by now.

0:21:30.565 --> 0:21:34.925
<v Speaker 3>Very tenacious went right and interviewing people and trying to

0:21:34.925 --> 0:21:38.365
<v Speaker 3>get information, and then I just begged him, like along

0:21:38.405 --> 0:21:40.765
<v Speaker 3>and along. I just I was like, I feel like

0:21:40.845 --> 0:21:44.125
<v Speaker 3>this is going to end up getting turned over into

0:21:44.125 --> 0:21:46.445
<v Speaker 3>the hands of Madison County, and I'm scared to death

0:21:46.485 --> 0:21:49.045
<v Speaker 3>about that because I don't think my brother would be found.

0:21:50.965 --> 0:21:55.485
<v Speaker 2>Over the next several weeks, Jason never came home, but

0:21:56.245 --> 0:22:07.925
<v Speaker 2>his stuff started showing up in some strange places. The

0:22:07.965 --> 0:22:10.685
<v Speaker 2>first thing that showed up after Jason vanished, as we

0:22:10.765 --> 0:22:12.325
<v Speaker 2>mentioned before, was his car.

0:22:13.045 --> 0:22:14.925
<v Speaker 1>This was about a week after he disappeared.

0:22:15.365 --> 0:22:19.205
<v Speaker 2>It was found parked outside the Northwest Arkansas Mall in Fayettevielle,

0:22:19.725 --> 0:22:22.645
<v Speaker 2>which by the way, was just a short distance from

0:22:22.645 --> 0:22:24.565
<v Speaker 2>his sister, Sarah's apartment complex.

0:22:25.445 --> 0:22:26.925
<v Speaker 1>The car was left.

0:22:26.685 --> 0:22:30.045
<v Speaker 2>Running and had run out of gas. Sarah was trying

0:22:30.045 --> 0:22:32.205
<v Speaker 2>to figure out anything that she could about where her

0:22:32.245 --> 0:22:34.445
<v Speaker 2>brother had been spending time. She was trying to figure

0:22:34.445 --> 0:22:38.365
<v Speaker 2>out his timeline. She learned that Jason had spent some

0:22:38.445 --> 0:22:41.405
<v Speaker 2>time at a casino with a friend of his. After that,

0:22:41.965 --> 0:22:44.325
<v Speaker 2>he went over to the house of some other friends

0:22:44.365 --> 0:22:47.645
<v Speaker 2>of his named Randall and Rachel. He stayed for a

0:22:47.645 --> 0:22:50.605
<v Speaker 2>couple of days at Randall and Rachel's house. He left

0:22:50.605 --> 0:22:54.485
<v Speaker 2>there on January twenty first. On that day, Jason showed

0:22:54.565 --> 0:22:57.405
<v Speaker 2>up at the home of a woman named Miriam. Now,

0:22:57.405 --> 0:23:00.365
<v Speaker 2>the exact nature of the relationship that was going on

0:23:00.405 --> 0:23:04.845
<v Speaker 2>between Miriam and Jason, I'm not exactly sure of. I

0:23:04.965 --> 0:23:09.325
<v Speaker 2>believe that it was some type of friendship or intimate relationship.

0:23:09.805 --> 0:23:11.885
<v Speaker 2>As with some of his other friends, this was someone

0:23:11.965 --> 0:23:13.365
<v Speaker 2>Jason was reconnecting with.

0:23:13.765 --> 0:23:15.765
<v Speaker 1>He had not seen her in a long time, but

0:23:15.805 --> 0:23:17.365
<v Speaker 1>they appeared to kind of like each other.

0:23:18.285 --> 0:23:21.285
<v Speaker 2>Miriam lives on a huge property that's owned by her family,

0:23:21.845 --> 0:23:23.765
<v Speaker 2>spanning over two hundred acres.

0:23:24.285 --> 0:23:25.645
<v Speaker 1>Now, Miriam has.

0:23:25.525 --> 0:23:29.445
<v Speaker 2>Posted a detailed timeline on social media of who was

0:23:29.485 --> 0:23:32.365
<v Speaker 2>at her house and what, to her knowledge, they were doing.

0:23:33.005 --> 0:23:36.125
<v Speaker 2>This is a timeline that she said she posted to

0:23:36.205 --> 0:23:40.165
<v Speaker 2>help the investigation. She claimed that it covered the period

0:23:40.205 --> 0:23:42.845
<v Speaker 2>from the twenty first through the twenty fifth of January

0:23:42.925 --> 0:23:48.485
<v Speaker 2>twenty twenty two. Miriam also did a Facebook live. I

0:23:48.525 --> 0:23:50.725
<v Speaker 2>know that I'm throwing a lot of names at you,

0:23:51.045 --> 0:23:53.565
<v Speaker 2>but the good news about it is if there were

0:23:53.605 --> 0:23:56.485
<v Speaker 2>a lot of people on that property, potentially there are

0:23:56.525 --> 0:23:59.325
<v Speaker 2>a lot of people who have some information who might

0:23:59.365 --> 0:24:02.725
<v Speaker 2>have little pieces of this puzzle. By the way, I'm

0:24:02.765 --> 0:24:05.845
<v Speaker 2>getting a lot of this information directly from Miriam from

0:24:05.845 --> 0:24:08.805
<v Speaker 2>what she's posted on social media. I also have a

0:24:08.925 --> 0:24:11.045
<v Speaker 2>very close source to the case who I'll talk about

0:24:11.045 --> 0:24:16.485
<v Speaker 2>a bit later, plus official police documents, including arrest reports

0:24:16.565 --> 0:24:19.405
<v Speaker 2>and things we've been able to access through freedom of

0:24:19.445 --> 0:24:23.125
<v Speaker 2>information request. But I am totally aware there may be

0:24:23.165 --> 0:24:26.765
<v Speaker 2>incorrect information in here. So if you hear something that

0:24:26.805 --> 0:24:29.845
<v Speaker 2>you know is wrong, I really hope that you'll reach out.

0:24:30.165 --> 0:24:32.565
<v Speaker 2>This is a developing story. We're trying to figure out

0:24:32.605 --> 0:24:35.005
<v Speaker 2>what's going on with no access to a case file.

0:24:35.845 --> 0:24:39.325
<v Speaker 2>There were several people on Miriam's property, and I believe

0:24:39.805 --> 0:24:43.965
<v Speaker 2>that someone there knows something that could potentially crack this case.

0:24:45.965 --> 0:24:49.445
<v Speaker 2>A journalist named Nicole Castile made a podcast a while

0:24:49.485 --> 0:24:51.085
<v Speaker 2>back called Hell in the Highlands.

0:24:51.485 --> 0:24:54.285
<v Speaker 1>She interviewed Miriam as part of that podcast.

0:24:54.565 --> 0:24:58.645
<v Speaker 2>So let's go back to Miriam's timeline. Miriam told Nicole

0:24:58.725 --> 0:25:01.885
<v Speaker 2>that before January twenty first, the day Jason showed up

0:25:01.925 --> 0:25:04.965
<v Speaker 2>on her property, she had not seen Jason in around

0:25:04.965 --> 0:25:09.685
<v Speaker 2>ten years. She said that Randall, Jason's friend, came to

0:25:09.725 --> 0:25:12.925
<v Speaker 2>her house on the twenty first. Apparently Randall had to

0:25:12.965 --> 0:25:15.805
<v Speaker 2>pay Miriam for a trailer she had sold him. When

0:25:15.805 --> 0:25:18.365
<v Speaker 2>he showed up at the house, he randomly had Jason

0:25:18.405 --> 0:25:21.485
<v Speaker 2>with him, probably because Jason had been staying at Randall's place.

0:25:22.165 --> 0:25:24.965
<v Speaker 2>A little while later, another friend named Don showed up

0:25:24.965 --> 0:25:28.445
<v Speaker 2>at the house. She also said she had two friends

0:25:28.445 --> 0:25:31.205
<v Speaker 2>of hers named Charity and Troy staying at her property

0:25:31.285 --> 0:25:33.685
<v Speaker 2>in a different part of the property. She said they

0:25:33.685 --> 0:25:37.165
<v Speaker 2>were also home during this time. So at some point

0:25:37.285 --> 0:25:41.085
<v Speaker 2>Jason and Randall left. Later, Miriam said that she called

0:25:41.125 --> 0:25:43.365
<v Speaker 2>Jason and asked him to come back over and hang out.

0:25:44.045 --> 0:25:46.525
<v Speaker 2>Jason didn't want to drive his motorcycle to her place,

0:25:46.765 --> 0:25:49.845
<v Speaker 2>so he left it parked at Randall's house. Now, remember

0:25:49.885 --> 0:25:52.285
<v Speaker 2>this is Arkansas in the woods and the dead of

0:25:52.325 --> 0:25:53.365
<v Speaker 2>winter in the twenties.

0:25:54.245 --> 0:25:56.165
<v Speaker 1>The road out to Miriam's.

0:25:55.765 --> 0:25:58.165
<v Speaker 2>Had a lot of dirt roads, so I can totally

0:25:58.245 --> 0:26:01.925
<v Speaker 2>understand Jason not wanting to ride his very nice bike

0:26:01.965 --> 0:26:05.445
<v Speaker 2>out there. According to Miriam, Don went to pickt ure

0:26:05.565 --> 0:26:08.965
<v Speaker 2>Jason up. Don and Jason showed up back at Miriam's

0:26:08.965 --> 0:26:10.325
<v Speaker 2>at around ten pm that night.

0:26:10.925 --> 0:26:12.525
<v Speaker 1>Charity and Troy were still there.

0:26:12.565 --> 0:26:16.405
<v Speaker 2>At this point, Miriam said she and Don and Jason

0:26:16.445 --> 0:26:20.485
<v Speaker 2>started smoking meth again. According to Miriam, Jason wanted to

0:26:20.485 --> 0:26:28.085
<v Speaker 2>try heroin, though he normally did not shoot up. A

0:26:28.085 --> 0:26:31.565
<v Speaker 2>little while later, someone else, a man named Aaron, showed

0:26:31.645 --> 0:26:35.885
<v Speaker 2>up sometime in the early morning hours of January twenty second.

0:26:36.485 --> 0:26:40.445
<v Speaker 2>Miriam said they were injecting heroin mixed with methamphetamine. Now,

0:26:40.445 --> 0:26:44.805
<v Speaker 2>apparently Jason never injected himself. He had someone else do

0:26:44.885 --> 0:26:48.405
<v Speaker 2>it for him. Now, this immediately makes me think of

0:26:48.605 --> 0:26:52.165
<v Speaker 2>something that could be very dangerous, because someone injecting someone

0:26:52.165 --> 0:26:54.525
<v Speaker 2>else with a drug makes me think of giving people

0:26:54.565 --> 0:26:57.965
<v Speaker 2>hot shots, in other words, giving them a lethal overdose.

0:26:58.485 --> 0:27:00.805
<v Speaker 2>But when I talk to people who know a lot

0:27:00.845 --> 0:27:04.045
<v Speaker 2>about injecting drugs and have done it themselves, they tell

0:27:04.085 --> 0:27:07.845
<v Speaker 2>me that it's not uncommon for someone who is not

0:27:08.045 --> 0:27:10.605
<v Speaker 2>in the habit of injecting themselves with drugs to have

0:27:10.725 --> 0:27:14.045
<v Speaker 2>someone else do it for them. Miriam said that even

0:27:14.045 --> 0:27:16.565
<v Speaker 2>though Jason apparently did not have a habit of using

0:27:16.565 --> 0:27:18.245
<v Speaker 2>heroin and injecting himself.

0:27:18.845 --> 0:27:22.725
<v Speaker 1>He didn't seem to be super affected by the drugs.

0:27:22.765 --> 0:27:25.125
<v Speaker 2>In other words, she said he was acting normal, at

0:27:25.205 --> 0:27:27.965
<v Speaker 2>least normal for someone who was doing drugs and having

0:27:28.005 --> 0:27:32.005
<v Speaker 2>a good time. What happened on Miriam's property and who

0:27:32.125 --> 0:27:34.725
<v Speaker 2>exactly was there is something that I'm still working out,

0:27:35.085 --> 0:27:37.205
<v Speaker 2>and we're going to follow up with in a lot

0:27:37.285 --> 0:27:40.765
<v Speaker 2>more detail on next week's episode. But for the moment,

0:27:40.845 --> 0:27:42.845
<v Speaker 2>I just want to point out a couple of things

0:27:42.885 --> 0:27:46.805
<v Speaker 2>that supposedly occurred during this time that I think should

0:27:46.805 --> 0:27:51.085
<v Speaker 2>be investigated further. Now, at some point over the next

0:27:51.085 --> 0:27:54.085
<v Speaker 2>couple of days, Jimmy Evans came over to the house.

0:27:54.165 --> 0:27:57.085
<v Speaker 2>Now you'll remember Jimmy Evans was the guy we mentioned

0:27:57.125 --> 0:27:59.165
<v Speaker 2>in the beginning of the episode, the one who was

0:27:59.285 --> 0:28:02.365
<v Speaker 2>arrested weeks later with blood on his clothes, the one

0:28:02.365 --> 0:28:07.165
<v Speaker 2>who claimed to be Clint Phillips. Now, according to Sarah,

0:28:07.405 --> 0:28:11.405
<v Speaker 2>Jason knew Jimmy. In fact, Jimmy and his sister were

0:28:11.525 --> 0:28:14.245
<v Speaker 2>very close to Sarah and Jason in childhood.

0:28:15.445 --> 0:28:18.045
<v Speaker 1>Miriam said she gave Jimmy a check.

0:28:18.365 --> 0:28:20.885
<v Speaker 2>He was supposed to cash it for her use some

0:28:20.925 --> 0:28:22.445
<v Speaker 2>of it to buy drugs and some of it to

0:28:22.445 --> 0:28:26.485
<v Speaker 2>buy groceries. But apparently Jimmy didn't come back with the check.

0:28:27.045 --> 0:28:30.005
<v Speaker 2>Miriam said, Don and Jason ended up getting some money together.

0:28:30.445 --> 0:28:33.205
<v Speaker 2>They went to the nearby town of Eureka Springs to

0:28:33.245 --> 0:28:37.045
<v Speaker 2>get groceries. Miriam claimed this was no big deal, that

0:28:37.085 --> 0:28:39.685
<v Speaker 2>she had just canceled the check, But this was a

0:28:39.725 --> 0:28:43.085
<v Speaker 2>lot of money, around six hundred dollars apparently, and I

0:28:43.125 --> 0:28:46.405
<v Speaker 2>do wonder if she was more upset about that at.

0:28:46.285 --> 0:28:47.925
<v Speaker 1>The time than she's letting on.

0:28:49.285 --> 0:28:51.565
<v Speaker 2>I have a lot more questions about Jimmy and exactly

0:28:51.645 --> 0:28:53.965
<v Speaker 2>what he was doing there, how long he stayed there,

0:28:54.085 --> 0:28:57.765
<v Speaker 2>what exactly went down. That's something Sarah says she's also

0:28:57.845 --> 0:28:59.765
<v Speaker 2>trying to figure out, and that's something we're going to

0:28:59.765 --> 0:29:03.605
<v Speaker 2>be focusing on in next week's episode. For now, we'll say,

0:29:03.765 --> 0:29:06.045
<v Speaker 2>over the next couple days, there were people coming in

0:29:06.045 --> 0:29:08.245
<v Speaker 2>and out of the house, people were partying for a

0:29:08.245 --> 0:29:11.405
<v Speaker 2>couple of days. During that time, there were a couple

0:29:11.485 --> 0:29:15.565
<v Speaker 2>more disturbing incidents. But for now, I want to go

0:29:15.645 --> 0:29:18.205
<v Speaker 2>back to Miriam's timeline. I want to focus on the

0:29:18.325 --> 0:29:23.205
<v Speaker 2>last and most crucial day, January twenty fourth, that's the

0:29:23.325 --> 0:29:26.045
<v Speaker 2>day when Jason last spoke to his lawyer, and also

0:29:26.125 --> 0:29:28.805
<v Speaker 2>the day when he last texted his sister. Text that

0:29:28.845 --> 0:29:34.045
<v Speaker 2>she feels confident came from him. Miriam later told people

0:29:34.205 --> 0:29:36.925
<v Speaker 2>that she went to bed that night. She said that

0:29:37.005 --> 0:29:40.005
<v Speaker 2>she saw Jason there, that he had wrapped himself in

0:29:40.045 --> 0:29:43.485
<v Speaker 2>a blanket on the bed, lying above the covers, kind

0:29:43.485 --> 0:29:45.885
<v Speaker 2>of rolling himself in one of her blankets like a

0:29:45.925 --> 0:29:49.885
<v Speaker 2>sleeping bag. The next morning, on the twenty fifth, she

0:29:50.045 --> 0:29:52.525
<v Speaker 2>said she wasn't sure if Jason was in bed with

0:29:52.565 --> 0:29:55.925
<v Speaker 2>her or not. She said, on that morning, Don woke

0:29:55.965 --> 0:29:57.685
<v Speaker 2>her up and told her if she wanted to get

0:29:57.725 --> 0:30:00.245
<v Speaker 2>to town, where she apparently needed to run some errands,

0:30:00.725 --> 0:30:02.565
<v Speaker 2>she needed to get up right now to get a

0:30:02.645 --> 0:30:04.685
<v Speaker 2>ride there with one of her friends.

0:30:05.485 --> 0:30:06.765
<v Speaker 1>She said, that's what she did.

0:30:07.765 --> 0:30:10.205
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, she said, you know, because she's gone back and

0:30:10.245 --> 0:30:12.925
<v Speaker 3>forth with her story quite a bit, and you know,

0:30:14.325 --> 0:30:16.925
<v Speaker 3>at a certain point she finally said, you know, now

0:30:16.965 --> 0:30:21.405
<v Speaker 3>that she's thinking about it, she thinks that he was

0:30:21.485 --> 0:30:25.965
<v Speaker 3>next to her in the bed, motionless. So there's that story,

0:30:26.005 --> 0:30:28.605
<v Speaker 3>and then there is another person in the house saying

0:30:28.645 --> 0:30:33.085
<v Speaker 3>that she actually spoke to my brother that morning. He's

0:30:33.125 --> 0:30:35.445
<v Speaker 3>making a cup of coffee. She said she was going

0:30:35.485 --> 0:30:38.645
<v Speaker 3>to the store. Did he need anything. He got some

0:30:38.685 --> 0:30:41.445
<v Speaker 3>money out of his wallet, gave it to her, said

0:30:41.485 --> 0:30:44.765
<v Speaker 3>that he needed a pack of cigarettes. All these things

0:30:44.845 --> 0:30:48.125
<v Speaker 3>like just in my mind, you know, the car being

0:30:48.205 --> 0:30:48.925
<v Speaker 3>left at the mall.

0:30:49.165 --> 0:30:50.245
<v Speaker 1>His wallet was.

0:30:50.525 --> 0:30:54.725
<v Speaker 3>In the car, completely cleaned out. So there's just so

0:30:54.845 --> 0:30:56.645
<v Speaker 3>many strange things to all of this.

0:30:58.325 --> 0:30:58.605
<v Speaker 1>Now.

0:30:58.725 --> 0:31:01.685
<v Speaker 2>The other woman who was staying at the property told

0:31:01.805 --> 0:31:05.125
<v Speaker 2>Sarah that there wasn't some big rush that morning, that

0:31:05.205 --> 0:31:07.245
<v Speaker 2>she had had a cup of coffee with Jason that morning,

0:31:07.725 --> 0:31:10.645
<v Speaker 2>that she'd actually seen him up and moving around on

0:31:10.685 --> 0:31:13.565
<v Speaker 2>the morning of the twenty fifth, And the other woman

0:31:13.725 --> 0:31:17.245
<v Speaker 2>told Sarah that Jason gave her money out of his

0:31:17.325 --> 0:31:22.125
<v Speaker 2>wallet that morning for groceries. Remember, Jason's car was found

0:31:22.165 --> 0:31:25.285
<v Speaker 2>about a week after he disappeared. Sarah gave me more

0:31:25.325 --> 0:31:27.845
<v Speaker 2>details about what happened when that car was found.

0:31:28.845 --> 0:31:32.605
<v Speaker 3>The crime scene investigator who was there, who was you know,

0:31:32.765 --> 0:31:36.885
<v Speaker 3>processing things from in the car. She went to get

0:31:36.885 --> 0:31:40.805
<v Speaker 3>in the car and couldn't, and you know, right away

0:31:40.925 --> 0:31:43.365
<v Speaker 3>was like, well, hey, you know, you said your brother

0:31:43.805 --> 0:31:48.005
<v Speaker 3>is around my height, maybe like an inch shorter. She said,

0:31:48.125 --> 0:31:51.845
<v Speaker 3>the seat the way that she initially asked me. She said,

0:31:51.885 --> 0:31:54.525
<v Speaker 3>did your brother sit up close.

0:31:54.285 --> 0:31:54.845
<v Speaker 1>To the wheel?

0:31:54.965 --> 0:31:57.285
<v Speaker 3>And I was not thinking, like.

0:31:58.405 --> 0:32:00.005
<v Speaker 1>Have his seat pushed forward?

0:32:01.365 --> 0:32:04.845
<v Speaker 3>I hadn't even looked much at the seats until she

0:32:04.925 --> 0:32:07.725
<v Speaker 3>brought it to our attention, and it was just like

0:32:07.805 --> 0:32:10.565
<v Speaker 3>she said that the seat was pushed so far forward,

0:32:11.045 --> 0:32:14.085
<v Speaker 3>you know that she couldn't even squeeze herself into the car,

0:32:14.725 --> 0:32:18.125
<v Speaker 3>So you know, she was just like, it seems to

0:32:18.165 --> 0:32:20.725
<v Speaker 3>me that the person who was driving it must have

0:32:20.805 --> 0:32:26.165
<v Speaker 3>been very short. The passenger side seat was lean basically

0:32:26.245 --> 0:32:29.165
<v Speaker 3>all the way back, and the seat itself was pushed

0:32:29.205 --> 0:32:32.605
<v Speaker 3>all the way back, which you know, just in my mind,

0:32:32.685 --> 0:32:35.405
<v Speaker 3>I'm like, well, seems like a really tall person.

0:32:37.645 --> 0:32:43.285
<v Speaker 2>So was that Jason driving the car or did someone else,

0:32:43.645 --> 0:32:46.245
<v Speaker 2>maybe the same person who took cash out of his wallet,

0:32:46.445 --> 0:32:48.845
<v Speaker 2>park that car in the mall parking lot to stage it.

0:32:50.325 --> 0:32:52.485
<v Speaker 2>I have a lot of questions about this timeline and

0:32:52.525 --> 0:32:56.405
<v Speaker 2>these stories, because I do believe there's some grains of

0:32:56.445 --> 0:32:58.765
<v Speaker 2>truth contained in it. A lot of people tend to

0:32:58.845 --> 0:33:01.565
<v Speaker 2>keep their lives close to the truth and include elements

0:33:01.565 --> 0:33:04.125
<v Speaker 2>of the truth and their story because a complete lie

0:33:04.165 --> 0:33:07.725
<v Speaker 2>is harder to remember and keeps. That's right, This is

0:33:07.805 --> 0:33:10.885
<v Speaker 2>also complicated by the fact that, even if people are

0:33:10.965 --> 0:33:14.325
<v Speaker 2>telling the truth, they by their own admission, were on

0:33:14.405 --> 0:33:18.845
<v Speaker 2>drugs at this point, So keeping dates and facts clear

0:33:18.925 --> 0:33:23.485
<v Speaker 2>can be very challenging. Whatever really happened that morning, whether

0:33:23.565 --> 0:33:26.245
<v Speaker 2>Jason was up and around, or whether this other house

0:33:26.245 --> 0:33:30.765
<v Speaker 2>guest got those dates confused, Miriam was clear. She said

0:33:30.805 --> 0:33:33.845
<v Speaker 2>she never saw Jason again after the morning of the

0:33:33.845 --> 0:33:38.205
<v Speaker 2>twenty fifth. The last person to see Jason alive, according

0:33:38.205 --> 0:33:42.405
<v Speaker 2>to the official timeline, was Don. Don told Sarah he

0:33:42.645 --> 0:33:44.965
<v Speaker 2>was with Jason later that day on the twenty fifth.

0:33:45.565 --> 0:33:48.325
<v Speaker 2>He says they went out to a property in Hinesville

0:33:48.405 --> 0:33:49.245
<v Speaker 2>where Don lives.

0:33:50.045 --> 0:33:53.085
<v Speaker 1>Now this would appear to match.

0:33:52.805 --> 0:33:56.085
<v Speaker 2>The last phone ping because Don lives in the same

0:33:56.125 --> 0:33:58.805
<v Speaker 2>area where that cell phone tower pinged on the twenty seventh.

0:33:59.765 --> 0:34:01.805
<v Speaker 1>Don said that he jumped in the shower.

0:34:02.725 --> 0:34:04.765
<v Speaker 2>While he did, He said Jason went out for a

0:34:04.765 --> 0:34:07.405
<v Speaker 2>walk in the woods at around nine thirty pm and

0:34:07.525 --> 0:34:11.925
<v Speaker 2>never came back. But apparently Don told someone else that

0:34:12.045 --> 0:34:14.565
<v Speaker 2>Jason had left the house much later, at around two

0:34:14.605 --> 0:34:17.565
<v Speaker 2>thirty am the next morning. I'm still trying to investigate

0:34:17.645 --> 0:34:21.565
<v Speaker 2>that potential contradiction. This story is weird for a couple

0:34:21.605 --> 0:34:24.325
<v Speaker 2>of reasons. First of all, the reports of the last

0:34:24.365 --> 0:34:26.765
<v Speaker 2>thing that Jason was seen in that he was wearing

0:34:27.165 --> 0:34:30.125
<v Speaker 2>are jeans, boots, a flannel and a white T shirt.

0:34:30.605 --> 0:34:33.845
<v Speaker 2>He had no gloves, no hat, no heavy coat, and

0:34:33.885 --> 0:34:37.205
<v Speaker 2>the nighttime temperature in those nights was down in the twenties.

0:34:38.165 --> 0:34:40.965
<v Speaker 2>Some people have brought up the possibility that Jason could

0:34:40.965 --> 0:34:44.925
<v Speaker 2>have wandered off and succumbed to hypothermia. But if that happened,

0:34:45.725 --> 0:34:50.125
<v Speaker 2>then where is he? Where's the body? As we said before,

0:34:50.325 --> 0:34:54.085
<v Speaker 2>police searched Jason's car. They eventually found his car, keys,

0:34:54.245 --> 0:34:57.525
<v Speaker 2>his motorcycle, and some of his other belongings, but they

0:34:57.605 --> 0:35:00.005
<v Speaker 2>never found his cell phone and they never found his

0:35:00.085 --> 0:35:05.405
<v Speaker 2>motorcycle keys. Police did a search of Miriam's property and

0:35:05.525 --> 0:35:09.165
<v Speaker 2>Madison County. By the way, Miriam has pointed out this

0:35:09.365 --> 0:35:12.805
<v Speaker 2>entire time that she has been extremely cooperative. She volunteered

0:35:12.805 --> 0:35:16.525
<v Speaker 2>to let people search, She's told people everything she knows,

0:35:16.605 --> 0:35:20.645
<v Speaker 2>both police and people asking on social media, and says

0:35:20.725 --> 0:35:23.485
<v Speaker 2>that she feels that she's been unfairly targeted as a

0:35:23.525 --> 0:35:29.325
<v Speaker 2>result of this. Apparently, they didn't find anything, No items

0:35:29.325 --> 0:35:33.085
<v Speaker 2>were seized. There was also a search in the area

0:35:33.165 --> 0:35:37.005
<v Speaker 2>around where Don lived in Hinesville and nothing was found

0:35:37.045 --> 0:35:39.285
<v Speaker 2>there either. But there are a lot of woods back there.

0:35:39.725 --> 0:35:42.765
<v Speaker 2>There are underground caves and sinkholes, and this is an

0:35:42.805 --> 0:35:48.605
<v Speaker 2>extensive area that spans several counties. Miriam has also shared

0:35:48.605 --> 0:35:53.045
<v Speaker 2>some screenshots from her phone, including one that was very interesting.

0:35:54.125 --> 0:35:59.045
<v Speaker 2>Remember Don told Sarah that Jason was with her on

0:35:59.165 --> 0:36:03.405
<v Speaker 2>January twenty fifth at his property near Hinesville.

0:36:03.445 --> 0:36:05.445
<v Speaker 1>Miriam told Sarah a similar story.

0:36:06.685 --> 0:36:10.685
<v Speaker 2>Miriam said she texted Don on January twenty fifth, and

0:36:10.725 --> 0:36:13.445
<v Speaker 2>when she did, she said, Don said Jason was with

0:36:13.685 --> 0:36:18.045
<v Speaker 2>him near Hinesville. At five twenty two pm on January

0:36:18.085 --> 0:36:21.605
<v Speaker 2>twenty fifth, Miriam got a text from Jason's phone. It

0:36:21.765 --> 0:36:26.045
<v Speaker 2>said you busy, but there's something else. Right afterwards, there's

0:36:26.045 --> 0:36:29.365
<v Speaker 2>an image with that text. It looks like the bottom

0:36:29.525 --> 0:36:33.365
<v Speaker 2>of legs in jeans with brown boots standing next to

0:36:33.405 --> 0:36:36.085
<v Speaker 2>a tree in the woods. Of course, we don't know

0:36:36.125 --> 0:36:38.725
<v Speaker 2>for sure, but to me, it looks like the person

0:36:38.765 --> 0:36:42.485
<v Speaker 2>who was texting accidentally took a picture of their bottom

0:36:42.605 --> 0:36:46.725
<v Speaker 2>half and hit send. I also say that because the

0:36:46.805 --> 0:36:49.045
<v Speaker 2>lens is partially covered up with a finger and it's

0:36:49.085 --> 0:36:52.565
<v Speaker 2>kind of blurry. It's something that I've done many times.

0:36:52.685 --> 0:36:56.245
<v Speaker 2>Accidentally taking a picture while sending a text. I asked

0:36:56.285 --> 0:36:59.685
<v Speaker 2>Sarah if she believed that that bottom half of that

0:36:59.725 --> 0:37:03.005
<v Speaker 2>person standing there was her brother, if she recognized the

0:37:03.045 --> 0:37:04.685
<v Speaker 2>boots not at all?

0:37:04.765 --> 0:37:08.885
<v Speaker 3>You know, the boot that just surprised me because you know,

0:37:09.045 --> 0:37:11.565
<v Speaker 3>at that point, a lot of times I was putting

0:37:11.565 --> 0:37:14.725
<v Speaker 3>his laundry away, like I organized his closet, that sort

0:37:14.765 --> 0:37:17.605
<v Speaker 3>of thing, So you know, I never saw him have

0:37:17.685 --> 0:37:20.765
<v Speaker 3>a pair of boots like this. So you know, right away,

0:37:20.925 --> 0:37:24.045
<v Speaker 3>I'm just like, you know, I'm like, well, maybe he

0:37:24.085 --> 0:37:26.445
<v Speaker 3>got a new pair of boots. And then I you know,

0:37:26.485 --> 0:37:30.365
<v Speaker 3>when I sort of you know, make the picture bigger,

0:37:30.365 --> 0:37:33.325
<v Speaker 3>I'm like, well, these look very worn, which you know,

0:37:33.445 --> 0:37:37.205
<v Speaker 3>it's it's still possible. I guess it's still possible. It's

0:37:37.365 --> 0:37:40.005
<v Speaker 3>just I never saw him in anything like this. And

0:37:40.045 --> 0:37:43.245
<v Speaker 3>when I asked his ex the same thing, she said, no,

0:37:43.405 --> 0:37:47.165
<v Speaker 3>that he hated boots that had like like laced up boots,

0:37:47.165 --> 0:37:49.525
<v Speaker 3>like he always wore just pull on boots.

0:37:50.845 --> 0:37:53.045
<v Speaker 1>So was that mystery person Jason?

0:37:53.765 --> 0:37:57.845
<v Speaker 2>And if it wasn't Jason, was it someone else texting

0:37:57.885 --> 0:38:06.885
<v Speaker 2>from Jason's phone. There's so much more to this story,

0:38:06.925 --> 0:38:09.725
<v Speaker 2>and we're going to continue it next week. But first

0:38:10.045 --> 0:38:14.525
<v Speaker 2>let's go back to February thirteenth of twenty twenty two.

0:38:14.845 --> 0:38:19.645
<v Speaker 2>After Jimmy was arrested. By the way, there's no information

0:38:19.725 --> 0:38:23.085
<v Speaker 2>about what happened next. Did they interview him about Jason Lerel?

0:38:24.045 --> 0:38:27.165
<v Speaker 2>Did they take his bloody clothes? Did they send them

0:38:27.205 --> 0:38:29.965
<v Speaker 2>to the crime lab? Was that his blood or someone

0:38:30.005 --> 0:38:33.365
<v Speaker 2>else's blood on his clothes? As with so many other

0:38:33.405 --> 0:38:36.485
<v Speaker 2>things in this case, we don't know for sure, but

0:38:37.245 --> 0:38:40.885
<v Speaker 2>we do know that something else critical happened in February

0:38:40.925 --> 0:38:46.165
<v Speaker 2>of twenty twenty two, around the same timeframe that Jimmy

0:38:46.325 --> 0:38:48.845
<v Speaker 2>was at the police station blurting out that he had

0:38:48.885 --> 0:38:53.085
<v Speaker 2>information about Jason Lerell's case. Police went to Aaron's house.

0:38:53.565 --> 0:38:57.085
<v Speaker 2>Remember Aaron was the friend who briefly came by Miriam's house.

0:38:58.525 --> 0:39:01.525
<v Speaker 2>Aaron also has a history of arrest for drug charges.

0:39:02.725 --> 0:39:06.165
<v Speaker 2>Police were at Aaron's house following up on a report

0:39:06.245 --> 0:39:09.885
<v Speaker 2>that Aaron's mother had made. She reported her van stolen,

0:39:10.405 --> 0:39:13.645
<v Speaker 2>but the van was returned to Aarin on January twenty fifth.

0:39:13.685 --> 0:39:17.605
<v Speaker 2>According to police documents, When they got to Aaron's house,

0:39:18.125 --> 0:39:21.325
<v Speaker 2>sitting out on his porch, police found a pile of

0:39:21.325 --> 0:39:26.645
<v Speaker 2>bloody clothes, clothes that one of Jason's family members identified

0:39:26.725 --> 0:39:30.485
<v Speaker 2>as belonging to Jason Lyrell. Sarah sent me a photo

0:39:30.525 --> 0:39:34.685
<v Speaker 2>of the clothes, she said. Miriam identified the blanket on

0:39:34.725 --> 0:39:37.845
<v Speaker 2>the porch as being the blanket that came off her bed,

0:39:38.565 --> 0:39:41.205
<v Speaker 2>the one that Jason was wrapped up in when he

0:39:41.325 --> 0:39:46.365
<v Speaker 2>was lying motionless. What were Jason Lyrel's bloody clothes doing

0:39:46.405 --> 0:39:48.885
<v Speaker 2>on that porch and who put them there?

0:39:50.005 --> 0:39:51.085
<v Speaker 1>I'm Catherine Townsend.

0:39:51.805 --> 0:39:59.205
<v Speaker 2>This is Helen Gone Murder Line. Helen Gone Murder Line

0:39:59.245 --> 0:40:01.725
<v Speaker 2>is a production of School of Humans and iHeart Podcasts.

0:40:02.205 --> 0:40:05.365
<v Speaker 2>It's written and narrated by me Catherine Townsend and produced

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<v Speaker 2>by Gabby Watts.

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<v Speaker 1>Music contributed by Ben.

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<v Speaker 2>Sale, Executive producers of Virginia Prescott, Brandon Barr, and Elsie Crowley.

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<v Speaker 2>If you have a case you'd like me and my

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<v Speaker 2>team to look into, you can reach out to us

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<v Speaker 2>at our Hellingonge Murder Line at six seven eight seven

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<v Speaker 2>four four six one four five. That's six seven eight

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<v Speaker 2>seven four four six one four five.

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<v Speaker 3>School of Humans