1 00:00:08,285 --> 00:00:09,765 Speaker 1: School of Humans. 2 00:00:11,605 --> 00:00:14,845 Speaker 2: Last week and the week before last, we talked about 3 00:00:14,845 --> 00:00:16,885 Speaker 2: the murder of Billy Jean Phillips. 4 00:00:17,485 --> 00:00:18,565 Speaker 1: Billy Jean was. 5 00:00:18,485 --> 00:00:22,085 Speaker 2: Brutally beaten to death at her home in Madison County, Arkansas, 6 00:00:22,125 --> 00:00:25,525 Speaker 2: in September of nineteen ninety four. Clint Phillips, who was 7 00:00:25,605 --> 00:00:28,925 Speaker 2: just seventeen years old when Billy Jean was murdered, was 8 00:00:28,925 --> 00:00:34,045 Speaker 2: eventually charged with and tried for her murder. But in 9 00:00:34,085 --> 00:00:37,685 Speaker 2: September of two thousand and three, Clint Phillips was acquitted 10 00:00:37,725 --> 00:00:41,205 Speaker 2: of Billy Jean's murder. He walked out of court a freeman, 11 00:00:42,205 --> 00:00:44,965 Speaker 2: and as we also said last week, the community was 12 00:00:45,045 --> 00:00:48,405 Speaker 2: divided over whether police had gotten the right guy in 13 00:00:48,445 --> 00:00:51,245 Speaker 2: the first place, whether they were prosecuting the right man. 14 00:00:52,205 --> 00:00:55,965 Speaker 2: Clint Phillips has always denied any involvement in Billy Jean 15 00:00:56,005 --> 00:01:01,125 Speaker 2: phillips murder. He's always maintained his innocence, but no one 16 00:01:01,165 --> 00:01:04,245 Speaker 2: else was ever arrested or charged with this murder. 17 00:01:05,645 --> 00:01:07,565 Speaker 1: Jean's killer is still out there. 18 00:01:09,165 --> 00:01:13,325 Speaker 2: Clint Phillips continued to live in the area around Huntsville. 19 00:01:13,365 --> 00:01:17,125 Speaker 2: He's now forty seven years old, and the name Clint 20 00:01:17,165 --> 00:01:20,805 Speaker 2: Phillips came up again in a very strange way almost 21 00:01:20,845 --> 00:01:23,965 Speaker 2: thirty years later, when I was looking into the disappearance 22 00:01:24,005 --> 00:01:26,485 Speaker 2: of a forty one year old man named Jason Lyrell 23 00:01:27,485 --> 00:01:31,325 Speaker 2: in January of twenty twenty two. Jason Lyrell was visiting 24 00:01:31,365 --> 00:01:35,245 Speaker 2: friends in Madison County, Arkansas, when he vanished without a trace. 25 00:01:36,485 --> 00:01:40,805 Speaker 2: Jason was last seen in Madison County, Arkansas. His abandoned 26 00:01:40,885 --> 00:01:43,085 Speaker 2: car was found in the parking lot of a mall 27 00:01:43,285 --> 00:01:44,365 Speaker 2: in Fayettville, Arkansas. 28 00:01:45,285 --> 00:01:47,965 Speaker 1: His car, keys, motorcycle. 29 00:01:47,245 --> 00:01:50,525 Speaker 2: And some other belongings were found in several different places 30 00:01:51,085 --> 00:01:54,805 Speaker 2: spread out across Arkansas and Missouri, but to this day, 31 00:01:55,485 --> 00:01:59,845 Speaker 2: no trace of Jason Lyrell has ever been found. On 32 00:01:59,925 --> 00:02:04,005 Speaker 2: February thirteenth, twenty twenty two, a few weeks after Jason disappeared, 33 00:02:04,605 --> 00:02:07,885 Speaker 2: a deputy was transporting an inmate to the Barry County Jail. 34 00:02:08,765 --> 00:02:12,605 Speaker 2: This person had been arrested for shoplifting charges, and according 35 00:02:12,605 --> 00:02:15,565 Speaker 2: to the arrest report, the suspect had blood on his 36 00:02:15,685 --> 00:02:19,405 Speaker 2: hands and all over his clothing. The man said that 37 00:02:19,485 --> 00:02:22,565 Speaker 2: he'd had a seizure and needed medical treatment. After he 38 00:02:22,645 --> 00:02:24,445 Speaker 2: got it and was brought back to the jail and 39 00:02:24,565 --> 00:02:28,045 Speaker 2: was being processed, he shocked the police officer on duty 40 00:02:28,325 --> 00:02:31,885 Speaker 2: when he said that he had information about Jason Lerell's 41 00:02:31,885 --> 00:02:35,325 Speaker 2: disappearance and that Madison County would want to talk to 42 00:02:35,405 --> 00:02:36,925 Speaker 2: him about a capital murder. 43 00:02:37,845 --> 00:02:38,965 Speaker 1: I'm Catherine Townsend. 44 00:02:39,525 --> 00:02:41,445 Speaker 2: If you have a case you'd like me and my 45 00:02:41,485 --> 00:02:44,045 Speaker 2: team to look into, you can reach out to us 46 00:02:44,085 --> 00:02:46,645 Speaker 2: at our Helen Gone Murder line at six seven eight 47 00:02:46,885 --> 00:02:50,205 Speaker 2: seven four four six ' one four or five. That 48 00:02:50,445 --> 00:02:54,005 Speaker 2: six seven eight seven four four six ' one four 49 00:02:54,085 --> 00:03:33,485 Speaker 2: or five. This is Helen Gone Murder line. When the 50 00:03:33,525 --> 00:03:37,045 Speaker 2: deputy asked the man his name, the man said that 51 00:03:37,125 --> 00:03:40,845 Speaker 2: his name was Clint Phillips. But then there's a crazy 52 00:03:40,925 --> 00:03:44,085 Speaker 2: twist in this case, because it didn't take long for 53 00:03:44,165 --> 00:03:47,085 Speaker 2: police to figure out that his mugshot did not match 54 00:03:47,125 --> 00:03:50,885 Speaker 2: Clint phillips photos or description, and that the real Clint Phillips, 55 00:03:50,925 --> 00:03:54,285 Speaker 2: the one who was arrested, tried, and eventually acquitted of 56 00:03:54,365 --> 00:03:59,005 Speaker 2: Billy Jean's murder almost thirty years ago, was currently incarcerated 57 00:03:59,005 --> 00:04:02,645 Speaker 2: somewhere else in the Cummings Unit on a completely unrelated charge. 58 00:04:03,165 --> 00:04:05,365 Speaker 2: So this guy with the blood on his clothes could 59 00:04:05,605 --> 00:04:09,085 Speaker 2: not have been Clint Phillips. The man in the cell 60 00:04:09,165 --> 00:04:12,485 Speaker 2: with the bloody clothes on was Jimmy Evans. He was 61 00:04:12,605 --> 00:04:16,405 Speaker 2: also a graduate along with Clint Phillips, Jason Lyrell, and 62 00:04:16,445 --> 00:04:19,725 Speaker 2: several other people who will come up later of Huntsville 63 00:04:19,845 --> 00:04:24,165 Speaker 2: High School. Jimmy Evans knew Clint Phillips, and he also 64 00:04:24,405 --> 00:04:26,685 Speaker 2: had known Jason Lerell when he was a kid. 65 00:04:27,525 --> 00:04:30,485 Speaker 1: But why did Jimmy say that he was Clint Phillips. 66 00:04:31,285 --> 00:04:34,045 Speaker 2: We're going to come back to Jimmy Evans his strange 67 00:04:34,085 --> 00:04:37,485 Speaker 2: story into this fateful night in February of twenty twenty two, 68 00:04:38,285 --> 00:04:41,405 Speaker 2: but first let's go back to Jason Lyrell and dive 69 00:04:41,445 --> 00:04:47,205 Speaker 2: into what was going on when he went missing. Jason 70 00:04:47,245 --> 00:04:50,125 Speaker 2: Lyrell grew up in Cincinnati, Ohio, before moving to the 71 00:04:50,165 --> 00:04:54,005 Speaker 2: area around Clifty, Arkansas. His sister, Sarah said that their 72 00:04:54,125 --> 00:04:57,045 Speaker 2: childhood was pretty rough and that she was one of 73 00:04:57,045 --> 00:05:00,085 Speaker 2: the closest people in the world to her brother. She 74 00:05:00,285 --> 00:05:03,685 Speaker 2: described Jason as kind, gentle, and someone with a great 75 00:05:03,725 --> 00:05:06,445 Speaker 2: sense of humor, someone who had issues in his life, 76 00:05:06,685 --> 00:05:08,125 Speaker 2: but someone who was loved. 77 00:05:07,845 --> 00:05:08,805 Speaker 1: By a lot of people. 78 00:05:09,605 --> 00:05:14,565 Speaker 3: You know, he definitely was somebody who very depressed on 79 00:05:14,845 --> 00:05:18,565 Speaker 3: like things from his own situation, but he was just 80 00:05:18,645 --> 00:05:22,405 Speaker 3: always wanting to cheer other people up and make other 81 00:05:22,445 --> 00:05:27,085 Speaker 3: people laugh, and just a really incredible person, a real 82 00:05:27,445 --> 00:05:31,805 Speaker 3: honest person with his feelings and very loving. 83 00:05:33,525 --> 00:05:36,005 Speaker 1: Sarah said that she and Jason struggled growing up. 84 00:05:36,445 --> 00:05:40,925 Speaker 3: Our mother left us in Ohio, had a very abusive 85 00:05:41,165 --> 00:05:46,205 Speaker 3: biological father. So my biological father had beaten my brother 86 00:05:46,285 --> 00:05:49,805 Speaker 3: Bobby to the point where he was taken into foster care, 87 00:05:50,485 --> 00:05:55,685 Speaker 3: and my sister and Jason and I all were removed 88 00:05:55,725 --> 00:06:00,125 Speaker 3: from the home and brought to my grandmother's in Arkansas, 89 00:06:00,685 --> 00:06:05,645 Speaker 3: where my grandmother sort of farmed my sister out to 90 00:06:06,525 --> 00:06:10,285 Speaker 3: the pastor of our church because she wasn't able to 91 00:06:10,285 --> 00:06:15,765 Speaker 3: handle a teenager. And so eventually our mom came and 92 00:06:15,805 --> 00:06:19,005 Speaker 3: got the only ones that were left on us, Jason 93 00:06:19,045 --> 00:06:22,565 Speaker 3: and I, and we moved back to Ohio for several years, 94 00:06:22,645 --> 00:06:27,205 Speaker 3: and then because of a bad situation with the person 95 00:06:27,245 --> 00:06:29,925 Speaker 3: that Jason and I then called our dad, and we 96 00:06:30,045 --> 00:06:33,485 Speaker 3: ended up having to come back down to Arkansas, and 97 00:06:33,565 --> 00:06:37,925 Speaker 3: so that's where Jason and I finished school, graduated, and 98 00:06:38,045 --> 00:06:39,365 Speaker 3: just kind of made our lives. 99 00:06:40,605 --> 00:06:43,805 Speaker 2: She described Jason as her best friend, someone who always 100 00:06:43,885 --> 00:06:46,805 Speaker 2: had her back, so they had a super tight bond. 101 00:06:47,565 --> 00:06:52,725 Speaker 2: Sarah said they were always there for each other over 102 00:06:52,765 --> 00:06:57,525 Speaker 2: the years, Jason struggled with different issues, including addictions to 103 00:06:57,605 --> 00:07:01,165 Speaker 2: drugs and alcohol. He tried to maintain his sobriety, and 104 00:07:01,205 --> 00:07:04,245 Speaker 2: it seems like he was able to at least sometimes. 105 00:07:05,285 --> 00:07:10,045 Speaker 2: Twenty twenty one, Jason had a very rough year. Back 106 00:07:10,085 --> 00:07:13,885 Speaker 2: in twenty ten, Jason married his wife, Jamaica. They had 107 00:07:13,925 --> 00:07:17,605 Speaker 2: a son together, and Jason also helped raise Jamaica's young son, 108 00:07:17,765 --> 00:07:20,485 Speaker 2: who was apparently just four years old when they met. 109 00:07:21,005 --> 00:07:24,005 Speaker 2: This information, by the way, is according to Jamaica's social 110 00:07:24,045 --> 00:07:28,645 Speaker 2: media postings. But their marriage started to have problems. Whatever 111 00:07:28,765 --> 00:07:32,685 Speaker 2: was going on. He was having some emotional issues, and 112 00:07:32,925 --> 00:07:35,445 Speaker 2: according to things that Jamaica has put on social media, 113 00:07:35,925 --> 00:07:38,965 Speaker 2: this is also a time when he apparently got back 114 00:07:38,965 --> 00:07:43,445 Speaker 2: into drugs. Whatever was going on, Jason Lirell was clearly 115 00:07:43,485 --> 00:07:47,005 Speaker 2: in distress. His marriage to Jamaica was breaking up, and 116 00:07:47,045 --> 00:07:49,685 Speaker 2: he was worried about the divorce and about what it 117 00:07:49,685 --> 00:07:53,765 Speaker 2: would mean for his future. Jason and Jamaica officially separated 118 00:07:53,765 --> 00:07:57,165 Speaker 2: in May of twenty twenty one. That's when Sarah says 119 00:07:57,285 --> 00:07:59,805 Speaker 2: Jason moved in with her to an apartment in Fayetteville, 120 00:08:00,005 --> 00:08:03,285 Speaker 2: which is about thirty miles away from where he'd been 121 00:08:03,325 --> 00:08:08,485 Speaker 2: living in Madison County. Sometime during all this, Jason also 122 00:08:08,645 --> 00:08:12,125 Speaker 2: got into a car accident. Sarah helped him get access 123 00:08:12,165 --> 00:08:14,765 Speaker 2: to a car so that he would have a vehicle 124 00:08:14,845 --> 00:08:17,485 Speaker 2: to drive to work and to ride around in. She 125 00:08:17,605 --> 00:08:20,605 Speaker 2: was basically doing everything that she could to help Jason 126 00:08:20,645 --> 00:08:25,005 Speaker 2: get his life together. Jason and Jamaica's divorce case was 127 00:08:25,045 --> 00:08:28,645 Speaker 2: playing out over the summer of twenty twenty one. Jamaica 128 00:08:28,685 --> 00:08:31,965 Speaker 2: filed for custody of their son. Jason won a joint 129 00:08:31,965 --> 00:08:35,485 Speaker 2: custody and for a while, according to Sarah, it seemed 130 00:08:35,525 --> 00:08:39,445 Speaker 2: like Jason's life was getting back to some type of normality. 131 00:08:39,165 --> 00:08:42,445 Speaker 3: In that time frame of being in that apartment. We 132 00:08:42,525 --> 00:08:45,405 Speaker 3: ended up getting him a job at the university. We 133 00:08:45,605 --> 00:08:48,845 Speaker 3: hired one of the best attorneys in Fantel to be 134 00:08:48,965 --> 00:08:53,365 Speaker 3: his divorce attorney. You know, he started getting visitation with 135 00:08:53,405 --> 00:08:57,445 Speaker 3: his son. He was using a device that was recommended 136 00:08:57,485 --> 00:09:01,205 Speaker 3: through his attorney to monitor alcohol use, you know, to 137 00:09:01,285 --> 00:09:05,125 Speaker 3: show that he wasn't using alcohol. I mean things were 138 00:09:05,165 --> 00:09:08,845 Speaker 3: pretty normal. I mean he would pick up his son, 139 00:09:09,005 --> 00:09:11,765 Speaker 3: had his son over for you know, like every other weekend. 140 00:09:12,205 --> 00:09:14,605 Speaker 3: I don't know, we just had a lot of fun together. 141 00:09:16,325 --> 00:09:19,565 Speaker 2: Sarah said that December twenty twenty one was a happy 142 00:09:19,565 --> 00:09:22,885 Speaker 2: time for Jason. He and the family had a good holiday. 143 00:09:23,485 --> 00:09:25,885 Speaker 2: He saw his ex wife with his son on Christmas. 144 00:09:25,925 --> 00:09:28,845 Speaker 2: Even Christmas Day he spent time with Sarah and their 145 00:09:28,885 --> 00:09:31,845 Speaker 2: brother and the children. From what Sarah said, it was 146 00:09:31,845 --> 00:09:34,725 Speaker 2: a very happy time. Jason said he was looking forward 147 00:09:34,725 --> 00:09:39,685 Speaker 2: to the future. But then things started to change for Jason. 148 00:09:40,525 --> 00:09:44,605 Speaker 3: You know, December came, he was gone quite a bit 149 00:09:44,645 --> 00:09:48,925 Speaker 3: more than January. I just noticed that I didn't think 150 00:09:48,965 --> 00:09:52,205 Speaker 3: that he was even working at the university anymore. I 151 00:09:52,245 --> 00:09:58,165 Speaker 3: don't know exactly what happened at different points in January. 152 00:09:58,805 --> 00:10:01,485 Speaker 3: I don't know all of the people that he was 153 00:10:01,565 --> 00:10:04,285 Speaker 3: hanging around with. I just know that he was gone 154 00:10:04,365 --> 00:10:04,885 Speaker 3: quite a bit. 155 00:10:07,285 --> 00:10:10,845 Speaker 2: Sarah said she's not exactly sure what caused Jason to 156 00:10:10,925 --> 00:10:14,245 Speaker 2: go down a darker path, but at some point, maybe 157 00:10:14,245 --> 00:10:16,685 Speaker 2: on New Year's Eve, Sarah said, Jason was at a 158 00:10:16,725 --> 00:10:20,325 Speaker 2: bar and ran into some people who Sarah described as 159 00:10:20,365 --> 00:10:23,005 Speaker 2: people who had been old friends from back in the day, 160 00:10:23,045 --> 00:10:26,165 Speaker 2: people he used to hang out with, people who she said, 161 00:10:26,205 --> 00:10:30,845 Speaker 2: perhaps were not the best influences. It seems that around 162 00:10:30,845 --> 00:10:33,845 Speaker 2: this time Jason made the choice to start doing drugs again. 163 00:10:35,645 --> 00:10:40,205 Speaker 2: Then came this accidental text message. According to court records, 164 00:10:40,645 --> 00:10:44,405 Speaker 2: Jason sent a text about getting some rocket fuel, referring 165 00:10:44,485 --> 00:10:49,125 Speaker 2: to drugs, probably to meth. Apparently he accidentally sent that 166 00:10:49,205 --> 00:10:52,565 Speaker 2: text about getting drugs to his young son. 167 00:10:52,925 --> 00:10:56,605 Speaker 3: I know Jason definitely wasn't very tech savvy. I don't 168 00:10:56,605 --> 00:10:59,885 Speaker 3: know how you make a mistake like he did, But yeah, 169 00:11:00,045 --> 00:11:03,045 Speaker 3: I mean, shouldn't have Number one shouldn't have been sent 170 00:11:03,085 --> 00:11:05,725 Speaker 3: to his son. But number two just showed it was 171 00:11:05,765 --> 00:11:09,125 Speaker 3: that he was already going down a really bad. 172 00:11:08,925 --> 00:11:10,365 Speaker 1: Path at that point. 173 00:11:10,765 --> 00:11:14,365 Speaker 2: This made the divorce case take a darker turn. On 174 00:11:14,485 --> 00:11:18,685 Speaker 2: January eighteenth, twenty twenty two, Jason and his estranged wife 175 00:11:18,805 --> 00:11:22,365 Speaker 2: had a zoom mediation conference. She later said this was 176 00:11:22,405 --> 00:11:25,765 Speaker 2: the last time that she ever saw Jason. After that, 177 00:11:25,965 --> 00:11:29,605 Speaker 2: Jamaica and her attorney filed court papers requiring Jason to 178 00:11:29,645 --> 00:11:33,405 Speaker 2: take a drug test on January nineteenth. Jason was supposed 179 00:11:33,445 --> 00:11:35,525 Speaker 2: to show up by five pm that day for the 180 00:11:35,525 --> 00:11:39,365 Speaker 2: hair follicle test, but he didn't make that appointment. Jason 181 00:11:39,445 --> 00:11:42,325 Speaker 2: was apparently in the process of rescheduling for another date. 182 00:11:42,845 --> 00:11:46,365 Speaker 2: He spoke to his lawyer on January twenty fourth. After that, 183 00:11:46,885 --> 00:11:51,645 Speaker 2: Jason's lawyer never heard back from him again. I just 184 00:11:51,685 --> 00:11:54,125 Speaker 2: want to say that as you go through these social 185 00:11:54,205 --> 00:11:58,125 Speaker 2: media posts, it becomes clear that Jamaica and Sarah and 186 00:11:58,165 --> 00:12:00,405 Speaker 2: the rest of the family kind of appeared to have 187 00:12:00,445 --> 00:12:03,605 Speaker 2: a united front at first, but over time they seem 188 00:12:03,685 --> 00:12:07,045 Speaker 2: to have some different views of what exactly Jason was 189 00:12:07,085 --> 00:12:10,765 Speaker 2: doing at the time of his disappearance, and potentially how 190 00:12:10,845 --> 00:12:13,565 Speaker 2: much of that information should be shared and who it 191 00:12:13,605 --> 00:12:17,285 Speaker 2: should be shared with. This is super common, and I'm 192 00:12:17,285 --> 00:12:19,805 Speaker 2: bringing it up because I know when someone goes missing 193 00:12:19,885 --> 00:12:24,565 Speaker 2: it's incredibly hard on families. Everyone has their own version 194 00:12:24,845 --> 00:12:27,765 Speaker 2: of what the victim was like, what they would have 195 00:12:27,805 --> 00:12:32,005 Speaker 2: wanted out there and Jamaica later talked to a reporter 196 00:12:32,085 --> 00:12:35,165 Speaker 2: from the Madison County Register. This was after Jason went missing. 197 00:12:35,845 --> 00:12:38,925 Speaker 2: She said Jason was not living with Sarah, his sister, 198 00:12:39,245 --> 00:12:42,565 Speaker 2: but had been staying with different friends, kind of CouchSurfing 199 00:12:42,605 --> 00:12:45,965 Speaker 2: in Madison County. She said, quote, we have to get 200 00:12:45,965 --> 00:12:47,925 Speaker 2: the truth out there if we're going to find Jason, 201 00:12:48,285 --> 00:12:50,805 Speaker 2: if we're going to figure out what's happened and what's 202 00:12:50,805 --> 00:12:51,445 Speaker 2: occurred with him. 203 00:12:51,685 --> 00:12:55,365 Speaker 1: End quote. The reporter asked her about her theories. 204 00:12:55,845 --> 00:12:58,925 Speaker 2: Jamaica said she hoped that maybe Jason just needed a break. 205 00:12:58,965 --> 00:13:01,765 Speaker 2: At first, she said that she had hope that he 206 00:13:01,805 --> 00:13:07,165 Speaker 2: would be found safe. Jamaica said, quote, maybe he's taken 207 00:13:07,165 --> 00:13:09,925 Speaker 2: off because of his involvement with certain people. We're not 208 00:13:10,005 --> 00:13:12,485 Speaker 2: exactly sure, but I hope that they find him and 209 00:13:12,605 --> 00:13:13,245 Speaker 2: that he's safe. 210 00:13:13,485 --> 00:13:15,125 Speaker 1: End quote. 211 00:13:15,245 --> 00:13:17,645 Speaker 2: I cannot imagine how hard this must be, both for 212 00:13:17,805 --> 00:13:21,765 Speaker 2: Jason's sister and other family members and for his estranged wife. 213 00:13:22,005 --> 00:13:24,525 Speaker 2: And I can really see both sides of this because 214 00:13:25,125 --> 00:13:28,845 Speaker 2: Sarah is very clear Jason was living with her. On 215 00:13:28,925 --> 00:13:33,845 Speaker 2: the other hand, I also understand why potentially his estranged 216 00:13:33,845 --> 00:13:36,205 Speaker 2: wife would want to get information out there about the 217 00:13:36,205 --> 00:13:39,125 Speaker 2: people he's hanging around with, because that is very important. 218 00:13:39,165 --> 00:13:42,325 Speaker 2: You have to know everything good and bad about a victim, 219 00:13:42,605 --> 00:13:45,205 Speaker 2: even if they're not particularly flattering, if we're going to try. 220 00:13:45,085 --> 00:13:46,045 Speaker 1: To find him. 221 00:13:46,405 --> 00:13:49,605 Speaker 2: I would say that both things can also be true. 222 00:13:50,045 --> 00:13:51,885 Speaker 2: He may have been staying with friends for a couple 223 00:13:51,925 --> 00:13:54,085 Speaker 2: of days, but that does not mean that he wasn't 224 00:13:54,125 --> 00:13:55,005 Speaker 2: living with his sister. 225 00:13:56,725 --> 00:13:59,165 Speaker 1: So let's get back to Jason and his timeline. 226 00:14:00,925 --> 00:14:03,005 Speaker 2: The last time that Sarah was in touch with her 227 00:14:03,005 --> 00:14:07,525 Speaker 2: brother was on Monday, January twenty fourthenty twenty two. Sarah 228 00:14:07,525 --> 00:14:09,925 Speaker 2: has a job that involves a lot of travel. The 229 00:14:10,005 --> 00:14:12,525 Speaker 2: plan was that Jason was going to stay in their 230 00:14:12,565 --> 00:14:15,645 Speaker 2: apartment in Fayetteville and dog sit for her dog Witty 231 00:14:15,805 --> 00:14:20,685 Speaker 2: while she was away. Sarah believes the last time that 232 00:14:20,725 --> 00:14:23,845 Speaker 2: her brother texted her was on January twenty fourth, and 233 00:14:23,885 --> 00:14:26,965 Speaker 2: that the text messages she received from Jason's phone on 234 00:14:27,045 --> 00:14:30,925 Speaker 2: January twenty fifth may have been someone else, someone who 235 00:14:30,965 --> 00:14:34,045 Speaker 2: wanted to affect the timeline, someone who wanted to make 236 00:14:34,125 --> 00:14:37,365 Speaker 2: everyone believe that Jason was still around and still texting. 237 00:14:38,005 --> 00:14:41,725 Speaker 3: You know, I didn't obviously think about it in the moment, 238 00:14:42,285 --> 00:14:45,565 Speaker 3: because it's like, you don't think those things. I mean 239 00:14:45,645 --> 00:14:48,365 Speaker 3: to me, I'm talking to my brother, so you know, 240 00:14:48,445 --> 00:14:52,805 Speaker 3: if the text messages were strange, you know, I'm talking 241 00:14:52,805 --> 00:14:53,965 Speaker 3: to my brother, so I don't know. 242 00:14:54,045 --> 00:14:55,325 Speaker 1: It wasn't until. 243 00:14:54,965 --> 00:14:57,565 Speaker 3: Afterwards, you know, when that date kind of got thrown 244 00:14:57,605 --> 00:15:00,765 Speaker 3: out there as the day that he potentially was last seen, 245 00:15:01,805 --> 00:15:04,685 Speaker 3: and I look back at these messages, I'm just like, wow, Yeah, 246 00:15:05,045 --> 00:15:07,725 Speaker 3: this does don't look like Jason at all talking to me, 247 00:15:07,925 --> 00:15:10,805 Speaker 3: you know, even though it's Jason's phone number. It's just 248 00:15:11,485 --> 00:15:14,165 Speaker 3: the messages don't sound like Jason. 249 00:15:16,125 --> 00:15:19,725 Speaker 2: On Monday, January twenty fourth, at one fifty five pm, 250 00:15:20,165 --> 00:15:23,205 Speaker 2: Sarah wrote, hey, brother, will you be home this week? 251 00:15:23,325 --> 00:15:24,565 Speaker 1: Or should I get a pet sitter? 252 00:15:25,245 --> 00:15:28,525 Speaker 2: She got a message from Jason's phone a reply saying 253 00:15:28,605 --> 00:15:31,965 Speaker 2: he would be there tomorrow, meaning on January twenty fifth. 254 00:15:32,565 --> 00:15:35,805 Speaker 2: She texted Jason back, awesome, thank you. If you can't 255 00:15:35,845 --> 00:15:37,405 Speaker 2: be there at any point, let me know so I 256 00:15:37,405 --> 00:15:38,165 Speaker 2: can find someone. 257 00:15:38,365 --> 00:15:38,685 Speaker 1: Love you. 258 00:15:39,645 --> 00:15:42,845 Speaker 2: She got a reply from Jason's phone love you to sister, 259 00:15:43,205 --> 00:15:46,765 Speaker 2: I will see you tomorrow. Sarah believes that this was 260 00:15:46,805 --> 00:15:50,685 Speaker 2: the last text that her brother sent. The next day, 261 00:15:50,725 --> 00:15:54,165 Speaker 2: on Tuesday, January twenty fifth, at four oh four pm, 262 00:15:54,565 --> 00:15:56,565 Speaker 2: she got a message from Jason's phone. 263 00:15:57,005 --> 00:15:59,005 Speaker 1: It read hey, what up? 264 00:15:59,845 --> 00:16:02,565 Speaker 2: She responded, asking what was up with him giving him 265 00:16:02,565 --> 00:16:05,485 Speaker 2: the door code to their home. Their locks had recently 266 00:16:05,685 --> 00:16:08,845 Speaker 2: being changed the apartment complex changed them from having keys 267 00:16:08,885 --> 00:16:11,005 Speaker 2: to having a door code, and she needed to make. 268 00:16:10,845 --> 00:16:12,405 Speaker 1: Sure that he could use it. I mean he could 269 00:16:12,445 --> 00:16:12,765 Speaker 1: get in. 270 00:16:13,565 --> 00:16:16,645 Speaker 2: She said that the replies that she got did not 271 00:16:16,885 --> 00:16:20,325 Speaker 2: sound like they came from her brother. For one thing, 272 00:16:20,565 --> 00:16:23,925 Speaker 2: the text were misspelled, which she said, even when Jason 273 00:16:24,525 --> 00:16:27,885 Speaker 2: was drunk, She said, he would never misspell. 274 00:16:27,525 --> 00:16:30,565 Speaker 3: Texts like for instance, you know when he first came 275 00:16:30,605 --> 00:16:33,645 Speaker 3: to stay with me, like he was very intoxicated, but 276 00:16:33,805 --> 00:16:35,445 Speaker 3: he was a misspelling thing. 277 00:16:36,845 --> 00:16:40,525 Speaker 2: Then Sarah texted, are you in the house? He said, no, 278 00:16:40,845 --> 00:16:46,285 Speaker 2: I'm in Hinesville. Hinesville is a tiny little town in 279 00:16:46,405 --> 00:16:49,765 Speaker 2: Arkansas with a population of less than one hundred. It's 280 00:16:49,765 --> 00:16:54,165 Speaker 2: in Madison County. Sarah got a response from Jason's phone. 281 00:16:54,245 --> 00:16:57,965 Speaker 2: It just said okay with a thumbs up emoji. This 282 00:16:58,205 --> 00:17:00,605 Speaker 2: was the last text that she ever got from her 283 00:17:00,605 --> 00:17:06,005 Speaker 2: brother's phone. Sarah put off her work trip and stayed 284 00:17:06,005 --> 00:17:09,205 Speaker 2: close to home with her dog. She still had no 285 00:17:09,285 --> 00:17:12,365 Speaker 2: idea where Jason was. She was concerned, but at first 286 00:17:12,365 --> 00:17:14,925 Speaker 2: she hoped that he was just somewhere with friends. On 287 00:17:14,965 --> 00:17:18,045 Speaker 2: the twenty seventh, she sent Jason's phone another text. 288 00:17:18,485 --> 00:17:20,805 Speaker 1: It read where's Woody. 289 00:17:21,045 --> 00:17:24,205 Speaker 2: Sarah sent that text to see what Jason would say. 290 00:17:24,485 --> 00:17:27,085 Speaker 2: She knew he wasn't at her apartment because she was there, 291 00:17:27,205 --> 00:17:29,285 Speaker 2: but she wanted to try to get him to give 292 00:17:29,285 --> 00:17:32,925 Speaker 2: her a response. By the way, that text message wears 293 00:17:32,925 --> 00:17:35,725 Speaker 2: Woody on the twenty seventh was the first one that 294 00:17:35,805 --> 00:17:39,685 Speaker 2: Sarah sent that was green, not blue. This could mean 295 00:17:39,805 --> 00:17:43,685 Speaker 2: Jason was somewhere with poor reception or no WiFi, or 296 00:17:43,805 --> 00:17:46,525 Speaker 2: it could mean that for some reason his phone was 297 00:17:46,525 --> 00:17:51,805 Speaker 2: switched off. Detectives later told Sarah that that last text 298 00:17:51,805 --> 00:17:54,885 Speaker 2: that she sent on January twenty seventh, on that day, 299 00:17:55,405 --> 00:17:59,405 Speaker 2: her brother's phone last pinged in Carroll County, in an 300 00:17:59,445 --> 00:18:01,965 Speaker 2: area right where it intersects with both. 301 00:18:01,845 --> 00:18:03,325 Speaker 1: Madison and Benton Counties. 302 00:18:04,005 --> 00:18:07,285 Speaker 2: This is near Hinesville, near where Jason had said he 303 00:18:07,405 --> 00:18:12,205 Speaker 2: was hanging out the previous day. Sarah also described this area, 304 00:18:12,245 --> 00:18:15,165 Speaker 2: by the way, as being basically like the Bermuda Triangle. 305 00:18:15,885 --> 00:18:20,085 Speaker 2: It's a spot where exactly three counties intersect. There's also 306 00:18:20,285 --> 00:18:22,605 Speaker 2: a large lake right in the middle of that area. 307 00:18:23,365 --> 00:18:27,725 Speaker 2: She wrote on social media, quote Jason disappeared on or 308 00:18:27,765 --> 00:18:32,085 Speaker 2: around January twenty fifth, twenty twenty two from either two 309 00:18:32,165 --> 00:18:35,925 Speaker 2: four or five five zero Caps Ranches Road in Rogers, Arkansas, 310 00:18:36,405 --> 00:18:39,965 Speaker 2: or four thirty five Madison one to one zero one 311 00:18:40,085 --> 00:18:44,845 Speaker 2: in Huntsville, Arkansas, or another number of other places end quote. 312 00:18:45,365 --> 00:18:47,365 Speaker 2: And that's what she was referring to when she wrote 313 00:18:47,405 --> 00:18:49,365 Speaker 2: that those are some of the last addresses he was 314 00:18:49,405 --> 00:18:50,885 Speaker 2: known to be at, which we're going to get into 315 00:18:50,965 --> 00:18:54,045 Speaker 2: in a minute. But just the confusion about where he 316 00:18:54,125 --> 00:18:56,765 Speaker 2: was last seen. It's really hard in this case even 317 00:18:56,805 --> 00:18:58,765 Speaker 2: to verify the most basic information. 318 00:19:00,005 --> 00:19:02,045 Speaker 1: For those of you who are not from Arkansas. 319 00:19:02,325 --> 00:19:05,005 Speaker 2: Fayetteville, where Sarah lives, it's kind of like the Austin, 320 00:19:05,045 --> 00:19:08,245 Speaker 2: Texas of Arkansas, or like Athens, Georgia. 321 00:19:08,725 --> 00:19:10,205 Speaker 1: It's a cool college town. 322 00:19:10,285 --> 00:19:12,765 Speaker 2: It's where the University of Arkansas is located, and it's 323 00:19:12,805 --> 00:19:17,645 Speaker 2: a very affluent area in northwest Arkansas. Whereas Madison County 324 00:19:18,245 --> 00:19:21,845 Speaker 2: is very much a part of the Ozarks, the area 325 00:19:21,885 --> 00:19:25,885 Speaker 2: where Jason was staying, near Hinesville in Clifty is only 326 00:19:25,965 --> 00:19:28,685 Speaker 2: about thirty to forty miles away, but it's a totally 327 00:19:28,725 --> 00:19:32,165 Speaker 2: different world. It is very much a rural area, very 328 00:19:32,245 --> 00:19:35,125 Speaker 2: much in the backwoods. I mentioned this because this case 329 00:19:35,165 --> 00:19:38,525 Speaker 2: spreads out over several counties, as we've said, and from 330 00:19:38,525 --> 00:19:41,965 Speaker 2: the start there appeared to be some confusion about jurisdiction. 331 00:19:42,885 --> 00:19:46,245 Speaker 2: So let's go back to a few days after Jason 332 00:19:46,325 --> 00:19:51,085 Speaker 2: went missing January early February of twenty twenty two. It's 333 00:19:51,125 --> 00:19:53,485 Speaker 2: been a few days and Sarah has been sitting in 334 00:19:53,525 --> 00:19:57,245 Speaker 2: her apartment. She has not heard from her brother. Several 335 00:19:57,325 --> 00:19:59,845 Speaker 2: days after she last heard from Jason. A friend of 336 00:19:59,925 --> 00:20:02,725 Speaker 2: Jason's where he had been staying called Sarah to let 337 00:20:02,805 --> 00:20:05,725 Speaker 2: her know that Jason had not been back to pick 338 00:20:05,805 --> 00:20:10,365 Speaker 2: up his motorcycle. He loved his motorcycle. It was his 339 00:20:10,525 --> 00:20:15,005 Speaker 2: prize possession. So now after hearing that Jason did not 340 00:20:15,285 --> 00:20:17,725 Speaker 2: have his motorcycle with him he never came back to 341 00:20:17,765 --> 00:20:21,965 Speaker 2: get it, and after calling Jason's ex wife finding out 342 00:20:22,085 --> 00:20:23,805 Speaker 2: they haven't heard from him, he didn't show up for 343 00:20:23,805 --> 00:20:27,885 Speaker 2: his son's birthday. Now Sarah has gone from being worried 344 00:20:27,925 --> 00:20:30,565 Speaker 2: to being scared something bad could have happened to her brother. 345 00:20:31,805 --> 00:20:34,645 Speaker 2: She reported Jason as a missing person to the Washington 346 00:20:34,645 --> 00:20:38,285 Speaker 2: County Sheriff's Department. That's in Fayetteville, where Jason and Sarah 347 00:20:38,285 --> 00:20:42,925 Speaker 2: were living. Then apparently Madison County took over since that's 348 00:20:42,965 --> 00:20:45,245 Speaker 2: where Jason was last seen and where he had been 349 00:20:45,285 --> 00:20:49,725 Speaker 2: staying with friends. After reporting him missing, Sarah started putting 350 00:20:49,805 --> 00:20:52,845 Speaker 2: up missing posters, doing everything that she could to spread 351 00:20:52,845 --> 00:20:57,765 Speaker 2: the word, including creating the Facebook group Jason Lirel Missing Person. 352 00:20:59,285 --> 00:21:02,365 Speaker 2: Jason was described as having blonde hair and blue eyes. 353 00:21:02,965 --> 00:21:06,085 Speaker 2: He has two tattoos on his right arm, one word 354 00:21:06,125 --> 00:21:09,325 Speaker 2: that says cross and the numbers one eleven, twelve referring 355 00:21:09,325 --> 00:21:12,565 Speaker 2: to his son's birthday. There's also another tattoo of an 356 00:21:12,565 --> 00:21:13,965 Speaker 2: iron cross on his bicap. 357 00:21:16,445 --> 00:21:19,845 Speaker 3: When I first started speaking with the investigator who was 358 00:21:19,885 --> 00:21:25,125 Speaker 3: initially on it, really phenomenal investigator. I mean, I feel 359 00:21:25,125 --> 00:21:27,645 Speaker 3: like if he had been able to stay on this, 360 00:21:27,725 --> 00:21:30,085 Speaker 3: I feel like Jay would have been found by now. 361 00:21:30,565 --> 00:21:34,925 Speaker 3: Very tenacious went right and interviewing people and trying to 362 00:21:34,925 --> 00:21:38,365 Speaker 3: get information, and then I just begged him, like along 363 00:21:38,405 --> 00:21:40,765 Speaker 3: and along. I just I was like, I feel like 364 00:21:40,845 --> 00:21:44,125 Speaker 3: this is going to end up getting turned over into 365 00:21:44,125 --> 00:21:46,445 Speaker 3: the hands of Madison County, and I'm scared to death 366 00:21:46,485 --> 00:21:49,045 Speaker 3: about that because I don't think my brother would be found. 367 00:21:50,965 --> 00:21:55,485 Speaker 2: Over the next several weeks, Jason never came home, but 368 00:21:56,245 --> 00:22:07,925 Speaker 2: his stuff started showing up in some strange places. The 369 00:22:07,965 --> 00:22:10,685 Speaker 2: first thing that showed up after Jason vanished, as we 370 00:22:10,765 --> 00:22:12,325 Speaker 2: mentioned before, was his car. 371 00:22:13,045 --> 00:22:14,925 Speaker 1: This was about a week after he disappeared. 372 00:22:15,365 --> 00:22:19,205 Speaker 2: It was found parked outside the Northwest Arkansas Mall in Fayettevielle, 373 00:22:19,725 --> 00:22:22,645 Speaker 2: which by the way, was just a short distance from 374 00:22:22,645 --> 00:22:24,565 Speaker 2: his sister, Sarah's apartment complex. 375 00:22:25,445 --> 00:22:26,925 Speaker 1: The car was left. 376 00:22:26,685 --> 00:22:30,045 Speaker 2: Running and had run out of gas. Sarah was trying 377 00:22:30,045 --> 00:22:32,205 Speaker 2: to figure out anything that she could about where her 378 00:22:32,245 --> 00:22:34,445 Speaker 2: brother had been spending time. She was trying to figure 379 00:22:34,445 --> 00:22:38,365 Speaker 2: out his timeline. She learned that Jason had spent some 380 00:22:38,445 --> 00:22:41,405 Speaker 2: time at a casino with a friend of his. After that, 381 00:22:41,965 --> 00:22:44,325 Speaker 2: he went over to the house of some other friends 382 00:22:44,365 --> 00:22:47,645 Speaker 2: of his named Randall and Rachel. He stayed for a 383 00:22:47,645 --> 00:22:50,605 Speaker 2: couple of days at Randall and Rachel's house. He left 384 00:22:50,605 --> 00:22:54,485 Speaker 2: there on January twenty first. On that day, Jason showed 385 00:22:54,565 --> 00:22:57,405 Speaker 2: up at the home of a woman named Miriam. Now, 386 00:22:57,405 --> 00:23:00,365 Speaker 2: the exact nature of the relationship that was going on 387 00:23:00,405 --> 00:23:04,845 Speaker 2: between Miriam and Jason, I'm not exactly sure of. I 388 00:23:04,965 --> 00:23:09,325 Speaker 2: believe that it was some type of friendship or intimate relationship. 389 00:23:09,805 --> 00:23:11,885 Speaker 2: As with some of his other friends, this was someone 390 00:23:11,965 --> 00:23:13,365 Speaker 2: Jason was reconnecting with. 391 00:23:13,765 --> 00:23:15,765 Speaker 1: He had not seen her in a long time, but 392 00:23:15,805 --> 00:23:17,365 Speaker 1: they appeared to kind of like each other. 393 00:23:18,285 --> 00:23:21,285 Speaker 2: Miriam lives on a huge property that's owned by her family, 394 00:23:21,845 --> 00:23:23,765 Speaker 2: spanning over two hundred acres. 395 00:23:24,285 --> 00:23:25,645 Speaker 1: Now, Miriam has. 396 00:23:25,525 --> 00:23:29,445 Speaker 2: Posted a detailed timeline on social media of who was 397 00:23:29,485 --> 00:23:32,365 Speaker 2: at her house and what, to her knowledge, they were doing. 398 00:23:33,005 --> 00:23:36,125 Speaker 2: This is a timeline that she said she posted to 399 00:23:36,205 --> 00:23:40,165 Speaker 2: help the investigation. She claimed that it covered the period 400 00:23:40,205 --> 00:23:42,845 Speaker 2: from the twenty first through the twenty fifth of January 401 00:23:42,925 --> 00:23:48,485 Speaker 2: twenty twenty two. Miriam also did a Facebook live. I 402 00:23:48,525 --> 00:23:50,725 Speaker 2: know that I'm throwing a lot of names at you, 403 00:23:51,045 --> 00:23:53,565 Speaker 2: but the good news about it is if there were 404 00:23:53,605 --> 00:23:56,485 Speaker 2: a lot of people on that property, potentially there are 405 00:23:56,525 --> 00:23:59,325 Speaker 2: a lot of people who have some information who might 406 00:23:59,365 --> 00:24:02,725 Speaker 2: have little pieces of this puzzle. By the way, I'm 407 00:24:02,765 --> 00:24:05,845 Speaker 2: getting a lot of this information directly from Miriam from 408 00:24:05,845 --> 00:24:08,805 Speaker 2: what she's posted on social media. I also have a 409 00:24:08,925 --> 00:24:11,045 Speaker 2: very close source to the case who I'll talk about 410 00:24:11,045 --> 00:24:16,485 Speaker 2: a bit later, plus official police documents, including arrest reports 411 00:24:16,565 --> 00:24:19,405 Speaker 2: and things we've been able to access through freedom of 412 00:24:19,445 --> 00:24:23,125 Speaker 2: information request. But I am totally aware there may be 413 00:24:23,165 --> 00:24:26,765 Speaker 2: incorrect information in here. So if you hear something that 414 00:24:26,805 --> 00:24:29,845 Speaker 2: you know is wrong, I really hope that you'll reach out. 415 00:24:30,165 --> 00:24:32,565 Speaker 2: This is a developing story. We're trying to figure out 416 00:24:32,605 --> 00:24:35,005 Speaker 2: what's going on with no access to a case file. 417 00:24:35,845 --> 00:24:39,325 Speaker 2: There were several people on Miriam's property, and I believe 418 00:24:39,805 --> 00:24:43,965 Speaker 2: that someone there knows something that could potentially crack this case. 419 00:24:45,965 --> 00:24:49,445 Speaker 2: A journalist named Nicole Castile made a podcast a while 420 00:24:49,485 --> 00:24:51,085 Speaker 2: back called Hell in the Highlands. 421 00:24:51,485 --> 00:24:54,285 Speaker 1: She interviewed Miriam as part of that podcast. 422 00:24:54,565 --> 00:24:58,645 Speaker 2: So let's go back to Miriam's timeline. Miriam told Nicole 423 00:24:58,725 --> 00:25:01,885 Speaker 2: that before January twenty first, the day Jason showed up 424 00:25:01,925 --> 00:25:04,965 Speaker 2: on her property, she had not seen Jason in around 425 00:25:04,965 --> 00:25:09,685 Speaker 2: ten years. She said that Randall, Jason's friend, came to 426 00:25:09,725 --> 00:25:12,925 Speaker 2: her house on the twenty first. Apparently Randall had to 427 00:25:12,965 --> 00:25:15,805 Speaker 2: pay Miriam for a trailer she had sold him. When 428 00:25:15,805 --> 00:25:18,365 Speaker 2: he showed up at the house, he randomly had Jason 429 00:25:18,405 --> 00:25:21,485 Speaker 2: with him, probably because Jason had been staying at Randall's place. 430 00:25:22,165 --> 00:25:24,965 Speaker 2: A little while later, another friend named Don showed up 431 00:25:24,965 --> 00:25:28,445 Speaker 2: at the house. She also said she had two friends 432 00:25:28,445 --> 00:25:31,205 Speaker 2: of hers named Charity and Troy staying at her property 433 00:25:31,285 --> 00:25:33,685 Speaker 2: in a different part of the property. She said they 434 00:25:33,685 --> 00:25:37,165 Speaker 2: were also home during this time. So at some point 435 00:25:37,285 --> 00:25:41,085 Speaker 2: Jason and Randall left. Later, Miriam said that she called 436 00:25:41,125 --> 00:25:43,365 Speaker 2: Jason and asked him to come back over and hang out. 437 00:25:44,045 --> 00:25:46,525 Speaker 2: Jason didn't want to drive his motorcycle to her place, 438 00:25:46,765 --> 00:25:49,845 Speaker 2: so he left it parked at Randall's house. Now, remember 439 00:25:49,885 --> 00:25:52,285 Speaker 2: this is Arkansas in the woods and the dead of 440 00:25:52,325 --> 00:25:53,365 Speaker 2: winter in the twenties. 441 00:25:54,245 --> 00:25:56,165 Speaker 1: The road out to Miriam's. 442 00:25:55,765 --> 00:25:58,165 Speaker 2: Had a lot of dirt roads, so I can totally 443 00:25:58,245 --> 00:26:01,925 Speaker 2: understand Jason not wanting to ride his very nice bike 444 00:26:01,965 --> 00:26:05,445 Speaker 2: out there. According to Miriam, Don went to pickt ure 445 00:26:05,565 --> 00:26:08,965 Speaker 2: Jason up. Don and Jason showed up back at Miriam's 446 00:26:08,965 --> 00:26:10,325 Speaker 2: at around ten pm that night. 447 00:26:10,925 --> 00:26:12,525 Speaker 1: Charity and Troy were still there. 448 00:26:12,565 --> 00:26:16,405 Speaker 2: At this point, Miriam said she and Don and Jason 449 00:26:16,445 --> 00:26:20,485 Speaker 2: started smoking meth again. According to Miriam, Jason wanted to 450 00:26:20,485 --> 00:26:28,085 Speaker 2: try heroin, though he normally did not shoot up. A 451 00:26:28,085 --> 00:26:31,565 Speaker 2: little while later, someone else, a man named Aaron, showed 452 00:26:31,645 --> 00:26:35,885 Speaker 2: up sometime in the early morning hours of January twenty second. 453 00:26:36,485 --> 00:26:40,445 Speaker 2: Miriam said they were injecting heroin mixed with methamphetamine. Now, 454 00:26:40,445 --> 00:26:44,805 Speaker 2: apparently Jason never injected himself. He had someone else do 455 00:26:44,885 --> 00:26:48,405 Speaker 2: it for him. Now, this immediately makes me think of 456 00:26:48,605 --> 00:26:52,165 Speaker 2: something that could be very dangerous, because someone injecting someone 457 00:26:52,165 --> 00:26:54,525 Speaker 2: else with a drug makes me think of giving people 458 00:26:54,565 --> 00:26:57,965 Speaker 2: hot shots, in other words, giving them a lethal overdose. 459 00:26:58,485 --> 00:27:00,805 Speaker 2: But when I talk to people who know a lot 460 00:27:00,845 --> 00:27:04,045 Speaker 2: about injecting drugs and have done it themselves, they tell 461 00:27:04,085 --> 00:27:07,845 Speaker 2: me that it's not uncommon for someone who is not 462 00:27:08,045 --> 00:27:10,605 Speaker 2: in the habit of injecting themselves with drugs to have 463 00:27:10,725 --> 00:27:14,045 Speaker 2: someone else do it for them. Miriam said that even 464 00:27:14,045 --> 00:27:16,565 Speaker 2: though Jason apparently did not have a habit of using 465 00:27:16,565 --> 00:27:18,245 Speaker 2: heroin and injecting himself. 466 00:27:18,845 --> 00:27:22,725 Speaker 1: He didn't seem to be super affected by the drugs. 467 00:27:22,765 --> 00:27:25,125 Speaker 2: In other words, she said he was acting normal, at 468 00:27:25,205 --> 00:27:27,965 Speaker 2: least normal for someone who was doing drugs and having 469 00:27:28,005 --> 00:27:32,005 Speaker 2: a good time. What happened on Miriam's property and who 470 00:27:32,125 --> 00:27:34,725 Speaker 2: exactly was there is something that I'm still working out, 471 00:27:35,085 --> 00:27:37,205 Speaker 2: and we're going to follow up with in a lot 472 00:27:37,285 --> 00:27:40,765 Speaker 2: more detail on next week's episode. But for the moment, 473 00:27:40,845 --> 00:27:42,845 Speaker 2: I just want to point out a couple of things 474 00:27:42,885 --> 00:27:46,805 Speaker 2: that supposedly occurred during this time that I think should 475 00:27:46,805 --> 00:27:51,085 Speaker 2: be investigated further. Now, at some point over the next 476 00:27:51,085 --> 00:27:54,085 Speaker 2: couple of days, Jimmy Evans came over to the house. 477 00:27:54,165 --> 00:27:57,085 Speaker 2: Now you'll remember Jimmy Evans was the guy we mentioned 478 00:27:57,125 --> 00:27:59,165 Speaker 2: in the beginning of the episode, the one who was 479 00:27:59,285 --> 00:28:02,365 Speaker 2: arrested weeks later with blood on his clothes, the one 480 00:28:02,365 --> 00:28:07,165 Speaker 2: who claimed to be Clint Phillips. Now, according to Sarah, 481 00:28:07,405 --> 00:28:11,405 Speaker 2: Jason knew Jimmy. In fact, Jimmy and his sister were 482 00:28:11,525 --> 00:28:14,245 Speaker 2: very close to Sarah and Jason in childhood. 483 00:28:15,445 --> 00:28:18,045 Speaker 1: Miriam said she gave Jimmy a check. 484 00:28:18,365 --> 00:28:20,885 Speaker 2: He was supposed to cash it for her use some 485 00:28:20,925 --> 00:28:22,445 Speaker 2: of it to buy drugs and some of it to 486 00:28:22,445 --> 00:28:26,485 Speaker 2: buy groceries. But apparently Jimmy didn't come back with the check. 487 00:28:27,045 --> 00:28:30,005 Speaker 2: Miriam said, Don and Jason ended up getting some money together. 488 00:28:30,445 --> 00:28:33,205 Speaker 2: They went to the nearby town of Eureka Springs to 489 00:28:33,245 --> 00:28:37,045 Speaker 2: get groceries. Miriam claimed this was no big deal, that 490 00:28:37,085 --> 00:28:39,685 Speaker 2: she had just canceled the check, But this was a 491 00:28:39,725 --> 00:28:43,085 Speaker 2: lot of money, around six hundred dollars apparently, and I 492 00:28:43,125 --> 00:28:46,405 Speaker 2: do wonder if she was more upset about that at. 493 00:28:46,285 --> 00:28:47,925 Speaker 1: The time than she's letting on. 494 00:28:49,285 --> 00:28:51,565 Speaker 2: I have a lot more questions about Jimmy and exactly 495 00:28:51,645 --> 00:28:53,965 Speaker 2: what he was doing there, how long he stayed there, 496 00:28:54,085 --> 00:28:57,765 Speaker 2: what exactly went down. That's something Sarah says she's also 497 00:28:57,845 --> 00:28:59,765 Speaker 2: trying to figure out, and that's something we're going to 498 00:28:59,765 --> 00:29:03,605 Speaker 2: be focusing on in next week's episode. For now, we'll say, 499 00:29:03,765 --> 00:29:06,045 Speaker 2: over the next couple days, there were people coming in 500 00:29:06,045 --> 00:29:08,245 Speaker 2: and out of the house, people were partying for a 501 00:29:08,245 --> 00:29:11,405 Speaker 2: couple of days. During that time, there were a couple 502 00:29:11,485 --> 00:29:15,565 Speaker 2: more disturbing incidents. But for now, I want to go 503 00:29:15,645 --> 00:29:18,205 Speaker 2: back to Miriam's timeline. I want to focus on the 504 00:29:18,325 --> 00:29:23,205 Speaker 2: last and most crucial day, January twenty fourth, that's the 505 00:29:23,325 --> 00:29:26,045 Speaker 2: day when Jason last spoke to his lawyer, and also 506 00:29:26,125 --> 00:29:28,805 Speaker 2: the day when he last texted his sister. Text that 507 00:29:28,845 --> 00:29:34,045 Speaker 2: she feels confident came from him. Miriam later told people 508 00:29:34,205 --> 00:29:36,925 Speaker 2: that she went to bed that night. She said that 509 00:29:37,005 --> 00:29:40,005 Speaker 2: she saw Jason there, that he had wrapped himself in 510 00:29:40,045 --> 00:29:43,485 Speaker 2: a blanket on the bed, lying above the covers, kind 511 00:29:43,485 --> 00:29:45,885 Speaker 2: of rolling himself in one of her blankets like a 512 00:29:45,925 --> 00:29:49,885 Speaker 2: sleeping bag. The next morning, on the twenty fifth, she 513 00:29:50,045 --> 00:29:52,525 Speaker 2: said she wasn't sure if Jason was in bed with 514 00:29:52,565 --> 00:29:55,925 Speaker 2: her or not. She said, on that morning, Don woke 515 00:29:55,965 --> 00:29:57,685 Speaker 2: her up and told her if she wanted to get 516 00:29:57,725 --> 00:30:00,245 Speaker 2: to town, where she apparently needed to run some errands, 517 00:30:00,725 --> 00:30:02,565 Speaker 2: she needed to get up right now to get a 518 00:30:02,645 --> 00:30:04,685 Speaker 2: ride there with one of her friends. 519 00:30:05,485 --> 00:30:06,765 Speaker 1: She said, that's what she did. 520 00:30:07,765 --> 00:30:10,205 Speaker 3: Yeah, she said, you know, because she's gone back and 521 00:30:10,245 --> 00:30:12,925 Speaker 3: forth with her story quite a bit, and you know, 522 00:30:14,325 --> 00:30:16,925 Speaker 3: at a certain point she finally said, you know, now 523 00:30:16,965 --> 00:30:21,405 Speaker 3: that she's thinking about it, she thinks that he was 524 00:30:21,485 --> 00:30:25,965 Speaker 3: next to her in the bed, motionless. So there's that story, 525 00:30:26,005 --> 00:30:28,605 Speaker 3: and then there is another person in the house saying 526 00:30:28,645 --> 00:30:33,085 Speaker 3: that she actually spoke to my brother that morning. He's 527 00:30:33,125 --> 00:30:35,445 Speaker 3: making a cup of coffee. She said she was going 528 00:30:35,485 --> 00:30:38,645 Speaker 3: to the store. Did he need anything. He got some 529 00:30:38,685 --> 00:30:41,445 Speaker 3: money out of his wallet, gave it to her, said 530 00:30:41,485 --> 00:30:44,765 Speaker 3: that he needed a pack of cigarettes. All these things 531 00:30:44,845 --> 00:30:48,125 Speaker 3: like just in my mind, you know, the car being 532 00:30:48,205 --> 00:30:48,925 Speaker 3: left at the mall. 533 00:30:49,165 --> 00:30:50,245 Speaker 1: His wallet was. 534 00:30:50,525 --> 00:30:54,725 Speaker 3: In the car, completely cleaned out. So there's just so 535 00:30:54,845 --> 00:30:56,645 Speaker 3: many strange things to all of this. 536 00:30:58,325 --> 00:30:58,605 Speaker 1: Now. 537 00:30:58,725 --> 00:31:01,685 Speaker 2: The other woman who was staying at the property told 538 00:31:01,805 --> 00:31:05,125 Speaker 2: Sarah that there wasn't some big rush that morning, that 539 00:31:05,205 --> 00:31:07,245 Speaker 2: she had had a cup of coffee with Jason that morning, 540 00:31:07,725 --> 00:31:10,645 Speaker 2: that she'd actually seen him up and moving around on 541 00:31:10,685 --> 00:31:13,565 Speaker 2: the morning of the twenty fifth, And the other woman 542 00:31:13,725 --> 00:31:17,245 Speaker 2: told Sarah that Jason gave her money out of his 543 00:31:17,325 --> 00:31:22,125 Speaker 2: wallet that morning for groceries. Remember, Jason's car was found 544 00:31:22,165 --> 00:31:25,285 Speaker 2: about a week after he disappeared. Sarah gave me more 545 00:31:25,325 --> 00:31:27,845 Speaker 2: details about what happened when that car was found. 546 00:31:28,845 --> 00:31:32,605 Speaker 3: The crime scene investigator who was there, who was you know, 547 00:31:32,765 --> 00:31:36,885 Speaker 3: processing things from in the car. She went to get 548 00:31:36,885 --> 00:31:40,805 Speaker 3: in the car and couldn't, and you know, right away 549 00:31:40,925 --> 00:31:43,365 Speaker 3: was like, well, hey, you know, you said your brother 550 00:31:43,805 --> 00:31:48,005 Speaker 3: is around my height, maybe like an inch shorter. She said, 551 00:31:48,125 --> 00:31:51,845 Speaker 3: the seat the way that she initially asked me. She said, 552 00:31:51,885 --> 00:31:54,525 Speaker 3: did your brother sit up close. 553 00:31:54,285 --> 00:31:54,845 Speaker 1: To the wheel? 554 00:31:54,965 --> 00:31:57,285 Speaker 3: And I was not thinking, like. 555 00:31:58,405 --> 00:32:00,005 Speaker 1: Have his seat pushed forward? 556 00:32:01,365 --> 00:32:04,845 Speaker 3: I hadn't even looked much at the seats until she 557 00:32:04,925 --> 00:32:07,725 Speaker 3: brought it to our attention, and it was just like 558 00:32:07,805 --> 00:32:10,565 Speaker 3: she said that the seat was pushed so far forward, 559 00:32:11,045 --> 00:32:14,085 Speaker 3: you know that she couldn't even squeeze herself into the car, 560 00:32:14,725 --> 00:32:18,125 Speaker 3: So you know, she was just like, it seems to 561 00:32:18,165 --> 00:32:20,725 Speaker 3: me that the person who was driving it must have 562 00:32:20,805 --> 00:32:26,165 Speaker 3: been very short. The passenger side seat was lean basically 563 00:32:26,245 --> 00:32:29,165 Speaker 3: all the way back, and the seat itself was pushed 564 00:32:29,205 --> 00:32:32,605 Speaker 3: all the way back, which you know, just in my mind, 565 00:32:32,685 --> 00:32:35,405 Speaker 3: I'm like, well, seems like a really tall person. 566 00:32:37,645 --> 00:32:43,285 Speaker 2: So was that Jason driving the car or did someone else, 567 00:32:43,645 --> 00:32:46,245 Speaker 2: maybe the same person who took cash out of his wallet, 568 00:32:46,445 --> 00:32:48,845 Speaker 2: park that car in the mall parking lot to stage it. 569 00:32:50,325 --> 00:32:52,485 Speaker 2: I have a lot of questions about this timeline and 570 00:32:52,525 --> 00:32:56,405 Speaker 2: these stories, because I do believe there's some grains of 571 00:32:56,445 --> 00:32:58,765 Speaker 2: truth contained in it. A lot of people tend to 572 00:32:58,845 --> 00:33:01,565 Speaker 2: keep their lives close to the truth and include elements 573 00:33:01,565 --> 00:33:04,125 Speaker 2: of the truth and their story because a complete lie 574 00:33:04,165 --> 00:33:07,725 Speaker 2: is harder to remember and keeps. That's right, This is 575 00:33:07,805 --> 00:33:10,885 Speaker 2: also complicated by the fact that, even if people are 576 00:33:10,965 --> 00:33:14,325 Speaker 2: telling the truth, they by their own admission, were on 577 00:33:14,405 --> 00:33:18,845 Speaker 2: drugs at this point, So keeping dates and facts clear 578 00:33:18,925 --> 00:33:23,485 Speaker 2: can be very challenging. Whatever really happened that morning, whether 579 00:33:23,565 --> 00:33:26,245 Speaker 2: Jason was up and around, or whether this other house 580 00:33:26,245 --> 00:33:30,765 Speaker 2: guest got those dates confused, Miriam was clear. She said 581 00:33:30,805 --> 00:33:33,845 Speaker 2: she never saw Jason again after the morning of the 582 00:33:33,845 --> 00:33:38,205 Speaker 2: twenty fifth. The last person to see Jason alive, according 583 00:33:38,205 --> 00:33:42,405 Speaker 2: to the official timeline, was Don. Don told Sarah he 584 00:33:42,645 --> 00:33:44,965 Speaker 2: was with Jason later that day on the twenty fifth. 585 00:33:45,565 --> 00:33:48,325 Speaker 2: He says they went out to a property in Hinesville 586 00:33:48,405 --> 00:33:49,245 Speaker 2: where Don lives. 587 00:33:50,045 --> 00:33:53,085 Speaker 1: Now this would appear to match. 588 00:33:52,805 --> 00:33:56,085 Speaker 2: The last phone ping because Don lives in the same 589 00:33:56,125 --> 00:33:58,805 Speaker 2: area where that cell phone tower pinged on the twenty seventh. 590 00:33:59,765 --> 00:34:01,805 Speaker 1: Don said that he jumped in the shower. 591 00:34:02,725 --> 00:34:04,765 Speaker 2: While he did, He said Jason went out for a 592 00:34:04,765 --> 00:34:07,405 Speaker 2: walk in the woods at around nine thirty pm and 593 00:34:07,525 --> 00:34:11,925 Speaker 2: never came back. But apparently Don told someone else that 594 00:34:12,045 --> 00:34:14,565 Speaker 2: Jason had left the house much later, at around two 595 00:34:14,605 --> 00:34:17,565 Speaker 2: thirty am the next morning. I'm still trying to investigate 596 00:34:17,645 --> 00:34:21,565 Speaker 2: that potential contradiction. This story is weird for a couple 597 00:34:21,605 --> 00:34:24,325 Speaker 2: of reasons. First of all, the reports of the last 598 00:34:24,365 --> 00:34:26,765 Speaker 2: thing that Jason was seen in that he was wearing 599 00:34:27,165 --> 00:34:30,125 Speaker 2: are jeans, boots, a flannel and a white T shirt. 600 00:34:30,605 --> 00:34:33,845 Speaker 2: He had no gloves, no hat, no heavy coat, and 601 00:34:33,885 --> 00:34:37,205 Speaker 2: the nighttime temperature in those nights was down in the twenties. 602 00:34:38,165 --> 00:34:40,965 Speaker 2: Some people have brought up the possibility that Jason could 603 00:34:40,965 --> 00:34:44,925 Speaker 2: have wandered off and succumbed to hypothermia. But if that happened, 604 00:34:45,725 --> 00:34:50,125 Speaker 2: then where is he? Where's the body? As we said before, 605 00:34:50,325 --> 00:34:54,085 Speaker 2: police searched Jason's car. They eventually found his car, keys, 606 00:34:54,245 --> 00:34:57,525 Speaker 2: his motorcycle, and some of his other belongings, but they 607 00:34:57,605 --> 00:35:00,005 Speaker 2: never found his cell phone and they never found his 608 00:35:00,085 --> 00:35:05,405 Speaker 2: motorcycle keys. Police did a search of Miriam's property and 609 00:35:05,525 --> 00:35:09,165 Speaker 2: Madison County. By the way, Miriam has pointed out this 610 00:35:09,365 --> 00:35:12,805 Speaker 2: entire time that she has been extremely cooperative. She volunteered 611 00:35:12,805 --> 00:35:16,525 Speaker 2: to let people search, She's told people everything she knows, 612 00:35:16,605 --> 00:35:20,645 Speaker 2: both police and people asking on social media, and says 613 00:35:20,725 --> 00:35:23,485 Speaker 2: that she feels that she's been unfairly targeted as a 614 00:35:23,525 --> 00:35:29,325 Speaker 2: result of this. Apparently, they didn't find anything, No items 615 00:35:29,325 --> 00:35:33,085 Speaker 2: were seized. There was also a search in the area 616 00:35:33,165 --> 00:35:37,005 Speaker 2: around where Don lived in Hinesville and nothing was found 617 00:35:37,045 --> 00:35:39,285 Speaker 2: there either. But there are a lot of woods back there. 618 00:35:39,725 --> 00:35:42,765 Speaker 2: There are underground caves and sinkholes, and this is an 619 00:35:42,805 --> 00:35:48,605 Speaker 2: extensive area that spans several counties. Miriam has also shared 620 00:35:48,605 --> 00:35:53,045 Speaker 2: some screenshots from her phone, including one that was very interesting. 621 00:35:54,125 --> 00:35:59,045 Speaker 2: Remember Don told Sarah that Jason was with her on 622 00:35:59,165 --> 00:36:03,405 Speaker 2: January twenty fifth at his property near Hinesville. 623 00:36:03,445 --> 00:36:05,445 Speaker 1: Miriam told Sarah a similar story. 624 00:36:06,685 --> 00:36:10,685 Speaker 2: Miriam said she texted Don on January twenty fifth, and 625 00:36:10,725 --> 00:36:13,445 Speaker 2: when she did, she said, Don said Jason was with 626 00:36:13,685 --> 00:36:18,045 Speaker 2: him near Hinesville. At five twenty two pm on January 627 00:36:18,085 --> 00:36:21,605 Speaker 2: twenty fifth, Miriam got a text from Jason's phone. It 628 00:36:21,765 --> 00:36:26,045 Speaker 2: said you busy, but there's something else. Right afterwards, there's 629 00:36:26,045 --> 00:36:29,365 Speaker 2: an image with that text. It looks like the bottom 630 00:36:29,525 --> 00:36:33,365 Speaker 2: of legs in jeans with brown boots standing next to 631 00:36:33,405 --> 00:36:36,085 Speaker 2: a tree in the woods. Of course, we don't know 632 00:36:36,125 --> 00:36:38,725 Speaker 2: for sure, but to me, it looks like the person 633 00:36:38,765 --> 00:36:42,485 Speaker 2: who was texting accidentally took a picture of their bottom 634 00:36:42,605 --> 00:36:46,725 Speaker 2: half and hit send. I also say that because the 635 00:36:46,805 --> 00:36:49,045 Speaker 2: lens is partially covered up with a finger and it's 636 00:36:49,085 --> 00:36:52,565 Speaker 2: kind of blurry. It's something that I've done many times. 637 00:36:52,685 --> 00:36:56,245 Speaker 2: Accidentally taking a picture while sending a text. I asked 638 00:36:56,285 --> 00:36:59,685 Speaker 2: Sarah if she believed that that bottom half of that 639 00:36:59,725 --> 00:37:03,005 Speaker 2: person standing there was her brother, if she recognized the 640 00:37:03,045 --> 00:37:04,685 Speaker 2: boots not at all? 641 00:37:04,765 --> 00:37:08,885 Speaker 3: You know, the boot that just surprised me because you know, 642 00:37:09,045 --> 00:37:11,565 Speaker 3: at that point, a lot of times I was putting 643 00:37:11,565 --> 00:37:14,725 Speaker 3: his laundry away, like I organized his closet, that sort 644 00:37:14,765 --> 00:37:17,605 Speaker 3: of thing, So you know, I never saw him have 645 00:37:17,685 --> 00:37:20,765 Speaker 3: a pair of boots like this. So you know, right away, 646 00:37:20,925 --> 00:37:24,045 Speaker 3: I'm just like, you know, I'm like, well, maybe he 647 00:37:24,085 --> 00:37:26,445 Speaker 3: got a new pair of boots. And then I you know, 648 00:37:26,485 --> 00:37:30,365 Speaker 3: when I sort of you know, make the picture bigger, 649 00:37:30,365 --> 00:37:33,325 Speaker 3: I'm like, well, these look very worn, which you know, 650 00:37:33,445 --> 00:37:37,205 Speaker 3: it's it's still possible. I guess it's still possible. It's 651 00:37:37,365 --> 00:37:40,005 Speaker 3: just I never saw him in anything like this. And 652 00:37:40,045 --> 00:37:43,245 Speaker 3: when I asked his ex the same thing, she said, no, 653 00:37:43,405 --> 00:37:47,165 Speaker 3: that he hated boots that had like like laced up boots, 654 00:37:47,165 --> 00:37:49,525 Speaker 3: like he always wore just pull on boots. 655 00:37:50,845 --> 00:37:53,045 Speaker 1: So was that mystery person Jason? 656 00:37:53,765 --> 00:37:57,845 Speaker 2: And if it wasn't Jason, was it someone else texting 657 00:37:57,885 --> 00:38:06,885 Speaker 2: from Jason's phone. There's so much more to this story, 658 00:38:06,925 --> 00:38:09,725 Speaker 2: and we're going to continue it next week. But first 659 00:38:10,045 --> 00:38:14,525 Speaker 2: let's go back to February thirteenth of twenty twenty two. 660 00:38:14,845 --> 00:38:19,645 Speaker 2: After Jimmy was arrested. By the way, there's no information 661 00:38:19,725 --> 00:38:23,085 Speaker 2: about what happened next. Did they interview him about Jason Lerel? 662 00:38:24,045 --> 00:38:27,165 Speaker 2: Did they take his bloody clothes? Did they send them 663 00:38:27,205 --> 00:38:29,965 Speaker 2: to the crime lab? Was that his blood or someone 664 00:38:30,005 --> 00:38:33,365 Speaker 2: else's blood on his clothes? As with so many other 665 00:38:33,405 --> 00:38:36,485 Speaker 2: things in this case, we don't know for sure, but 666 00:38:37,245 --> 00:38:40,885 Speaker 2: we do know that something else critical happened in February 667 00:38:40,925 --> 00:38:46,165 Speaker 2: of twenty twenty two, around the same timeframe that Jimmy 668 00:38:46,325 --> 00:38:48,845 Speaker 2: was at the police station blurting out that he had 669 00:38:48,885 --> 00:38:53,085 Speaker 2: information about Jason Lerell's case. Police went to Aaron's house. 670 00:38:53,565 --> 00:38:57,085 Speaker 2: Remember Aaron was the friend who briefly came by Miriam's house. 671 00:38:58,525 --> 00:39:01,525 Speaker 2: Aaron also has a history of arrest for drug charges. 672 00:39:02,725 --> 00:39:06,165 Speaker 2: Police were at Aaron's house following up on a report 673 00:39:06,245 --> 00:39:09,885 Speaker 2: that Aaron's mother had made. She reported her van stolen, 674 00:39:10,405 --> 00:39:13,645 Speaker 2: but the van was returned to Aarin on January twenty fifth. 675 00:39:13,685 --> 00:39:17,605 Speaker 2: According to police documents, When they got to Aaron's house, 676 00:39:18,125 --> 00:39:21,325 Speaker 2: sitting out on his porch, police found a pile of 677 00:39:21,325 --> 00:39:26,645 Speaker 2: bloody clothes, clothes that one of Jason's family members identified 678 00:39:26,725 --> 00:39:30,485 Speaker 2: as belonging to Jason Lyrell. Sarah sent me a photo 679 00:39:30,525 --> 00:39:34,685 Speaker 2: of the clothes, she said. Miriam identified the blanket on 680 00:39:34,725 --> 00:39:37,845 Speaker 2: the porch as being the blanket that came off her bed, 681 00:39:38,565 --> 00:39:41,205 Speaker 2: the one that Jason was wrapped up in when he 682 00:39:41,325 --> 00:39:46,365 Speaker 2: was lying motionless. What were Jason Lyrel's bloody clothes doing 683 00:39:46,405 --> 00:39:48,885 Speaker 2: on that porch and who put them there? 684 00:39:50,005 --> 00:39:51,085 Speaker 1: I'm Catherine Townsend. 685 00:39:51,805 --> 00:39:59,205 Speaker 2: This is Helen Gone Murder Line. Helen Gone Murder Line 686 00:39:59,245 --> 00:40:01,725 Speaker 2: is a production of School of Humans and iHeart Podcasts. 687 00:40:02,205 --> 00:40:05,365 Speaker 2: It's written and narrated by me Catherine Townsend and produced 688 00:40:05,365 --> 00:40:06,365 Speaker 2: by Gabby Watts. 689 00:40:06,885 --> 00:40:08,325 Speaker 1: Music contributed by Ben. 690 00:40:08,165 --> 00:40:13,085 Speaker 2: Sale, Executive producers of Virginia Prescott, Brandon Barr, and Elsie Crowley. 691 00:40:13,805 --> 00:40:15,645 Speaker 2: If you have a case you'd like me and my 692 00:40:15,685 --> 00:40:17,925 Speaker 2: team to look into, you can reach out to us 693 00:40:17,965 --> 00:40:21,125 Speaker 2: at our Hellingonge Murder Line at six seven eight seven 694 00:40:21,205 --> 00:40:24,725 Speaker 2: four four six one four five. That's six seven eight 695 00:40:25,005 --> 00:40:27,445 Speaker 2: seven four four six one four five. 696 00:40:40,205 --> 00:40:41,925 Speaker 3: School of Humans