WEBVTT - Uphill: Navigating Racism at Work (Jemele Hill recap) 0:00:00.920 --> 0:00:03.720 Hey y'all. Hey, what's up? And welcome to Let's Red 0:00:03.800 --> 0:00:07.280 Table that I'm Tracy t row and on Carl Presley. 0:00:07.320 --> 0:00:09.840 How are you feeling the day's Tracy? You sound successful? 0:00:10.039 --> 0:00:13.360 You know what? I am successful and every day amazing. 0:00:13.480 --> 0:00:16.279 I am so glad to be here. We have this 0:00:16.320 --> 0:00:20.400 fantastic opportunity to talk about this wonderful episode. Today's episode. 0:00:20.520 --> 0:00:25.560 Jamal Halls, Oh wow, I love Jamale Hill. I remember 0:00:25.560 --> 0:00:28.520 when they came on a few seasons ago with Carrie Champions, 0:00:28.560 --> 0:00:31.160 she came on together. It was very nice to just 0:00:31.240 --> 0:00:35.720 hear her story. Who are you? How did you feel 0:00:35.760 --> 0:00:39.159 about it? So much to unpack it? This episode was 0:00:39.240 --> 0:00:43.360 just sweet to me. It was just endearing, especially because 0:00:44.280 --> 0:00:47.440 her mom was on with her. Just think about the 0:00:47.479 --> 0:00:50.040 sweetness of that and that they were so open and 0:00:50.080 --> 0:00:53.559 so loving. You could just feel like the warmth at 0:00:53.560 --> 0:00:57.440 the table and to have Denise and Jamal and then 0:00:57.520 --> 0:01:00.840 Gammy and Willow and Jade uh and you know, it 0:01:00.880 --> 0:01:03.240 was just beautiful. It really was. What did you think? 0:01:03.560 --> 0:01:06.120 I thought it was amazing. I thought it was very touching. 0:01:06.360 --> 0:01:08.800 I thought it was successful. Again, it was just very 0:01:08.880 --> 0:01:12.559 nice to hear Jamal's story from her from her mouth, 0:01:12.680 --> 0:01:15.200 Like it's interesting when the book released comes out right 0:01:15.240 --> 0:01:17.600 thanks to Audible, you can hear it now read in 0:01:17.680 --> 0:01:23.360 people's right. But I love to just hear the backstory too, 0:01:23.600 --> 0:01:25.759 or hear the parts that really stuck out to them. 0:01:25.920 --> 0:01:28.080 You just feel like you're getting closer with them. Yeah. 0:01:28.160 --> 0:01:31.280 I consider Jamale Hill of Pure g So the fact 0:01:31.280 --> 0:01:33.319 that she was able to come and share even more 0:01:33.400 --> 0:01:35.559 of her story now that she has to memoir out, 0:01:36.280 --> 0:01:39.280 it's like, wow, I had no idea. The biggest part 0:01:39.319 --> 0:01:41.520 of it to me, though, Kyra, was that she and 0:01:41.560 --> 0:01:43.360 her mom were able to do this together. I feel 0:01:43.400 --> 0:01:46.280 like everyone's journey with their mother is just completely different, 0:01:46.920 --> 0:01:50.720 and like Willow Janda Game, they already started to show 0:01:50.840 --> 0:01:54.280 us with their own stories, Hey y'all, we are far 0:01:54.400 --> 0:01:57.880 from traditional and we're getting through it. How are you 0:01:57.960 --> 0:02:01.720 getting through it? So just every single week there's another connection, 0:02:01.800 --> 0:02:05.040 another opportunity to see, Hey, we're not doing it wrong. 0:02:05.080 --> 0:02:07.720 We're just doing life with each other out here, and 0:02:07.800 --> 0:02:10.680 it's just reminded us how our relationship is, Like, how 0:02:10.760 --> 0:02:12.959 is your relationship right now with your mother? I thought 0:02:13.000 --> 0:02:15.359 about my mom a lot, saying Jamal with her mom, 0:02:15.440 --> 0:02:18.160 Denise and what would we do at the red table? 0:02:18.200 --> 0:02:19.919 How would that go for us at the red table? 0:02:20.040 --> 0:02:23.040 And my mom is very much a talker, but there's 0:02:23.080 --> 0:02:25.800 something like a truth serum that happens at that red table. 0:02:25.880 --> 0:02:28.240 So it would be interesting to see you right, how 0:02:28.240 --> 0:02:29.760 many people up said that, Like, I don't know how 0:02:29.919 --> 0:02:33.920 you just start taking out the blue right, what happens 0:02:33.960 --> 0:02:36.760 at this table? This table has power. It would be 0:02:36.800 --> 0:02:39.520 interesting for me to see, you know, how our conversation 0:02:39.560 --> 0:02:42.600 would go, because we talk all the time, but there's 0:02:42.639 --> 0:02:46.160 something different about the table. I think that, given the opportunity, 0:02:46.240 --> 0:02:50.400 would be a cathartic experience. What about you? You know, 0:02:50.480 --> 0:02:53.080 me and my mother are I feel like our relationships 0:02:53.160 --> 0:02:56.320 constantly evolving. I told you guys, like earlier in the season, 0:02:56.360 --> 0:02:59.280 how we did an event where I wanted to learn 0:02:59.320 --> 0:03:01.760 from her again, right, she's a floor, So she did 0:03:01.800 --> 0:03:04.160 some flower rangements and we did an exercise of naming 0:03:04.200 --> 0:03:06.919 that arrangement after you to learn how to take care 0:03:06.919 --> 0:03:09.280 of yourselves. And we're actually going to a retreat to 0:03:09.320 --> 0:03:12.720 do it again. So again we're like growing closer all 0:03:12.720 --> 0:03:16.840 the time now on having more conversations. But through episodes 0:03:16.880 --> 0:03:18.440 like this, I realized maybe I don't need to know 0:03:18.440 --> 0:03:21.280 a little bit more about your story, so right, And 0:03:21.320 --> 0:03:24.720 you know, my mom has been battling cancer for the 0:03:24.800 --> 0:03:28.160 last year and a half, and so it's amazing to 0:03:28.440 --> 0:03:33.639 see the resilience and her absolute determination and grit. It's 0:03:33.680 --> 0:03:35.920 a whole another level of respect that I have for her. 0:03:35.960 --> 0:03:37.960 And she just rang the bell and so I'm so 0:03:38.000 --> 0:03:40.800 proud of her and all that she's gone through. We're 0:03:40.800 --> 0:03:43.040 still on course and we're still in the journey, but 0:03:43.160 --> 0:03:46.800 I'm just grateful that she has a warrior spirit, right, absolutely, 0:03:46.800 --> 0:03:50.040 warrior spirit. Shout out to to her the survivor. My 0:03:50.080 --> 0:03:52.600 mom went through her issue last year as well. They 0:03:52.600 --> 0:03:55.520 caught something early and she had a few rounds of radiation, 0:03:55.720 --> 0:03:58.240 so she wrung her bell as well. But it's like 0:03:58.280 --> 0:04:01.120 you're just still you kind of wait to see what's 0:04:01.160 --> 0:04:03.920 going to happen, but just you recognize that every moment 0:04:03.960 --> 0:04:10.280 we have them is just every moment. Now it's time 0:04:10.360 --> 0:04:13.280 for us to share what our online Red Table Talk 0:04:13.320 --> 0:04:15.920 community has to say about this episode. We'd love hearing 0:04:15.960 --> 0:04:19.000 from our community, so come on, go ahead and read 0:04:19.000 --> 0:04:21.120 what Kenya Simmons had to say to kick it off. 0:04:21.200 --> 0:04:24.520 Kenya Simmons said, when Gammy broke down, I did too. 0:04:24.920 --> 0:04:28.479 You could feel her remorse. This was a good episode. 0:04:28.600 --> 0:04:32.640 Completely agree. Just like Gammy said, It's like a back 0:04:32.680 --> 0:04:35.160 and forth that you go through, just as far as 0:04:35.200 --> 0:04:37.120 what your life entailed and the things you take your 0:04:37.200 --> 0:04:41.120 children through. It's interesting to watch them in real time 0:04:41.760 --> 0:04:45.360 give us these episodes and share their transparent feelings because 0:04:45.480 --> 0:04:47.760 you can't fake that. So shut out to give me 0:04:47.800 --> 0:04:51.400 for constantly being transparent with us, she keeps it on real. 0:04:52.880 --> 0:04:57.320 Jennifer Bauer, you gave us some fantastic feedback, you said, 0:04:57.720 --> 0:05:01.200 thank you for our t T. I felt this episode 0:05:01.279 --> 0:05:04.200 in the depths of my soul. I have been working 0:05:04.279 --> 0:05:07.800 so hard, but especially for the last three and a 0:05:07.880 --> 0:05:12.800 half years, to break my family's generational curses. Oh wow, 0:05:12.960 --> 0:05:17.880 this episode described my mother and my relationship to a t. 0:05:18.320 --> 0:05:21.719 Thank you for this with the heart emoji. Jennifer, thank you. 0:05:22.040 --> 0:05:24.680 We appreciate your comment, and I'm so grateful to hear 0:05:24.720 --> 0:05:28.160 that you're and your mother's relationship his healing and going 0:05:28.200 --> 0:05:31.680 through and you're breaking those generational curses. So important. Absolutely, 0:05:31.920 --> 0:05:34.599 my ro orty says man, oh Man, this one hit hard. 0:05:34.680 --> 0:05:36.559 Trying to figure out how to talk to my baby 0:05:36.560 --> 0:05:39.919 girl about this. Oh man, how do I even start 0:05:40.720 --> 0:05:43.719 That part of the episode where Jamal shared how she 0:05:43.800 --> 0:05:46.599 got out of her own situation because her mother had 0:05:46.640 --> 0:05:50.240 shared her situation, and the fact that she knew how 0:05:50.320 --> 0:05:52.839 to fight or knew to fight, the fact that she 0:05:52.960 --> 0:05:56.719 knew that this energy just wasn't right, like she knew 0:05:57.000 --> 0:06:01.120 the signs so heartbreaking because it shows you how quickly 0:06:01.520 --> 0:06:05.520 something could happen. Yeah, that's so true. I don't know 0:06:05.560 --> 0:06:07.599 what you say to your baby girl, Myra. Good luck 0:06:07.640 --> 0:06:09.560 to you and thank you for giving us your comment. 0:06:10.440 --> 0:06:15.200 Kiandra Darl said this episode hit hard. I have a 0:06:15.279 --> 0:06:19.560 complicated relationship with my mother due to traumas I have experienced. 0:06:20.040 --> 0:06:23.320 This helped me to see I am not alone. Thanks 0:06:23.360 --> 0:06:28.600 our t T. Keep up the amazing work, Red Heart emojing. Oh. 0:06:29.440 --> 0:06:34.080 So many traumas, so many traumas, so many traumas. But 0:06:34.400 --> 0:06:36.800 I'm glad we're to be able to figure it all out. Well, 0:06:36.839 --> 0:06:40.440 at least address it and acknowledge it. Yeah, at least 0:06:40.440 --> 0:06:43.520 start somewhere. We're going to take a quick break, but 0:06:43.600 --> 0:06:46.240 when we get back, we're really going to dive into 0:06:46.279 --> 0:06:59.599 this interview with Jamal Hill, So stay tuned. This is 0:06:59.600 --> 0:07:02.279 the part of the show where we reveal which moments 0:07:02.279 --> 0:07:10.679 made us pause, rewind, and listen again. Why what, Wait what? 0:07:11.600 --> 0:07:17.720 I'll kick it off, go ahead. First of all, I 0:07:17.800 --> 0:07:22.600 loved hearing that this was Jamale's mother's first interview. Jamal 0:07:22.720 --> 0:07:25.960 and her mom have never sat down for an interview together. 0:07:26.520 --> 0:07:29.360 We are so honored that they're doing it at the table. 0:07:30.080 --> 0:07:34.239 So jamalte introduced us to your well, I guess um, 0:07:34.320 --> 0:07:38.200 it feels like a worldwide debut. Everybody can meet my mom, 0:07:38.320 --> 0:07:43.680 Denise listen. Denise was so successful. She knew she was 0:07:43.800 --> 0:07:47.240 doing and she did, and she carried on the conversation 0:07:47.320 --> 0:07:50.360 and she was accountable, and she was able to share 0:07:50.400 --> 0:07:53.680 that moment with her baby girl, especially after she shared 0:07:54.240 --> 0:07:56.520 that she didn't know if her daughter needed her or 0:07:56.600 --> 0:08:00.480 she didn't know if if she had a like maybe 0:08:00.480 --> 0:08:02.440 a successful place in her life. But you do have 0:08:02.520 --> 0:08:05.840 a place. Your daughter does need you, and that conversation 0:08:05.920 --> 0:08:08.080 was necessaryus. So I enjoyed that they were able to 0:08:08.120 --> 0:08:10.800 go through this together. If you and your mom were 0:08:10.840 --> 0:08:13.240 doing an interview together, what story would you too tell? Tracy? 0:08:13.440 --> 0:08:16.320 Oh gosh, there's so many I can tell you. My mom. 0:08:17.320 --> 0:08:20.200 One of the first stories that my mom tells people 0:08:20.280 --> 0:08:22.960 about me when she meets them and they know me 0:08:23.040 --> 0:08:25.200 and she hasn't met him is the story when I 0:08:25.200 --> 0:08:27.720 was in the second grade. I'm confident that would be 0:08:27.760 --> 0:08:29.800 the story she tells. And it was a trauma, but 0:08:29.840 --> 0:08:32.679 it wasn't when I experienced. It was one that I 0:08:32.720 --> 0:08:35.800 tried to circumvent on behalf of someone. In the second grade, 0:08:36.080 --> 0:08:38.480 there was one of my students, one of my peer students, 0:08:38.559 --> 0:08:40.800 was in a swing and a little boy came and 0:08:40.840 --> 0:08:43.400 pushed her out of the swing. And I wasn't having 0:08:43.880 --> 0:08:47.560 I was not having about second grade Tracy Brow. And 0:08:48.160 --> 0:08:50.800 the little girl fell and hurt her arm. She was 0:08:50.920 --> 0:08:53.320 crying and she was being a little bit dramatic. So 0:08:53.400 --> 0:08:55.640 the first thing I did is i'd monished the little 0:08:55.679 --> 0:08:58.199 boy and told him wrong. I didn't use the word 0:08:58.240 --> 0:08:59.560 bully because we didn't know that, but I was like, 0:08:59.600 --> 0:09:02.480 you're wrong, inappropriate, don't do that. And then I went 0:09:02.480 --> 0:09:05.319 over to the little girl and I said, and this 0:09:05.400 --> 0:09:07.880 is what my mom loves to say, I told a 0:09:07.880 --> 0:09:14.280 little girl bear the pain and spare the tears. But 0:09:14.360 --> 0:09:18.880 now such wise words. Well, and I don't know, you know, 0:09:18.920 --> 0:09:21.920 it was they were strong because it wasn't necessarily one 0:09:21.960 --> 0:09:24.880 that was a healing and a comforting, empathetic kind of word. 0:09:25.040 --> 0:09:27.160 But I was telling her, you gotta be strong here, 0:09:27.400 --> 0:09:30.000 stand up for yourself. But what my mom would do 0:09:30.120 --> 0:09:32.080 if we were at the table with that story car, 0:09:32.480 --> 0:09:35.880 she would literally say what she said to one of 0:09:35.880 --> 0:09:39.000 my dear friends, that the little girl fell, broke her arm, 0:09:39.440 --> 0:09:41.720 her radio, all nerves were out of her skin, and 0:09:41.800 --> 0:09:44.480 like I immediately triazed her and did surgery in the yard. 0:09:44.520 --> 0:09:50.320 It would be like I was a superhero, tramatic. But 0:09:50.480 --> 0:09:54.400 I understand the energy if Tracy's moment is like Tracy, 0:09:54.800 --> 0:09:58.719 because it's the story telling from me, and I could 0:09:58.760 --> 0:10:02.720 see you, Tracy on the playground now, like you sitting 0:10:02.800 --> 0:10:07.720 time out. It was very much like playground. What about you? 0:10:07.840 --> 0:10:09.560 What would be the story you and your mom would share. 0:10:09.679 --> 0:10:13.040 I don't know what story my mom tells when my 0:10:13.160 --> 0:10:15.839 name comes up. I have no idea. I don't know 0:10:15.880 --> 0:10:18.400 what that story would be. There's an opportunity, there isn't 0:10:18.440 --> 0:10:21.040 There There is an opportunity I would need to ask. 0:10:21.160 --> 0:10:23.400 I know my dad before I left the government, it 0:10:23.559 --> 0:10:26.439 was my daughter works for the government. Your job is 0:10:26.480 --> 0:10:29.320 their accomplishment. So what is it? But we should have 0:10:29.440 --> 0:10:31.440 to ask were about to ask me? So she would 0:10:31.440 --> 0:10:34.480 you want her to say what I want? I don't know, 0:10:34.559 --> 0:10:36.800 because I really do want to know her perspective. I 0:10:36.840 --> 0:10:39.160 don't I don't want to give her a story she 0:10:39.240 --> 0:10:41.320 was talking about I don't know. Immediately comes to mind 0:10:41.320 --> 0:10:43.920 as I was talkative in school. To hear some of 0:10:44.000 --> 0:10:47.560 those story. I can only imagine the things I have forgotten. Yeah, 0:10:47.679 --> 0:10:51.000 isn't that something? Well, we may have an opportunity, we 0:10:51.040 --> 0:10:53.280 may have to replicate that. So, now do you know 0:10:53.360 --> 0:10:56.880 your mom's story? Car? Do I know my mom's story? 0:10:56.960 --> 0:10:59.640 I know pieces of my mom's story, and I know 0:10:59.720 --> 0:11:03.520 things that have come up situationally, right Like you're talking 0:11:03.520 --> 0:11:05.839 to your mom randomly and you're like, oh, man, I'm 0:11:05.880 --> 0:11:07.520 going through X Y Z and she's, oh, I went 0:11:07.520 --> 0:11:10.360 through that too, Really, because you could have definitely shared 0:11:10.400 --> 0:11:13.280 it a little bit earlier than in my mom. But 0:11:13.400 --> 0:11:15.520 as fine, as long as the stories are coming out, 0:11:15.640 --> 0:11:18.400 it's always good to hear. So has she shared as 0:11:18.520 --> 0:11:24.360 deeply like Denise did with Jamale? Not that if my 0:11:24.400 --> 0:11:26.679 mom has that form of trauma? Not? Not at all? 0:11:26.760 --> 0:11:28.719 Have we shared that deeply? But I feel like we've 0:11:28.720 --> 0:11:31.480 shared some deep things, right, so as far as like 0:11:31.520 --> 0:11:34.200 the bond and and just parts of her journey as 0:11:34.240 --> 0:11:37.080 a woman, I feel like I know some of those. So, yeah, 0:11:37.720 --> 0:11:39.559 what about you? Do you know your mom's story? I 0:11:40.080 --> 0:11:45.520 can tell you that I do know my mom's story. Thankfully, 0:11:45.600 --> 0:11:48.920 she did not have drug abuse as part of her story, 0:11:49.000 --> 0:11:51.080 but there were some things that she shared with me 0:11:51.240 --> 0:11:54.480 that were definitely traumatic in her life and it was 0:11:54.559 --> 0:11:58.079 really difficult for me to hear it, and it helped 0:11:58.120 --> 0:12:00.880 shape who she is and and that city. But her 0:12:00.920 --> 0:12:04.000 sharing it also made us closer, but it was hard 0:12:04.040 --> 0:12:07.120 to sit in it. It was hard to to process it. 0:12:07.240 --> 0:12:10.600 Some of the hardships that she encountered were being a 0:12:10.640 --> 0:12:15.120 black woman in her time, and it was difficult to hear. 0:12:15.240 --> 0:12:17.319 But it did help me. I can tell you that 0:12:17.360 --> 0:12:19.840 it affected my life in a way that gave me 0:12:20.320 --> 0:12:25.360 a voice. And because she had experienced those traumas, she 0:12:25.559 --> 0:12:29.160 was really truly a pillar for me, so that when 0:12:29.200 --> 0:12:32.040 I had the opportunity to speak up and speak out, 0:12:32.120 --> 0:12:34.360 I could because I knew that she was going to 0:12:34.440 --> 0:12:37.480 back me up. And so I'm grateful for that. Another 0:12:37.559 --> 0:12:40.920 fantastic weight what moment in this episode was Jada saying 0:12:41.000 --> 0:12:45.160 Jamal needed to experience adversity to get where she is today. 0:12:45.280 --> 0:12:48.960 Jada said, and I would imagine you correct me if 0:12:48.960 --> 0:12:51.840 I'm wrong. The places that Jamal has been and what 0:12:51.960 --> 0:12:54.520 she's had to deal with, she might not have been 0:12:54.559 --> 0:12:57.320 able to do that without the level of adversity that 0:12:57.400 --> 0:13:00.800 she had as a child. Now this it's interesting to me, 0:13:01.840 --> 0:13:03.760 So I want to know from you first, do you 0:13:03.800 --> 0:13:06.559 agree or disagree with that state? You know, I want 0:13:06.600 --> 0:13:10.640 to believe that I agree with it at the same time, 0:13:11.679 --> 0:13:15.199 at the same time, a part of me, it's not 0:13:15.360 --> 0:13:18.880 sure if that is something that we say as black 0:13:18.920 --> 0:13:22.920 people to justify the trials and tribulations we go through overall, 0:13:23.120 --> 0:13:25.640 like just to end all be all form of a statement. 0:13:25.760 --> 0:13:29.200 So I do believe portions of it. And I loved 0:13:29.280 --> 0:13:31.079 the part of this show where the therapist at the 0:13:31.120 --> 0:13:34.160 end says, we don't come here blank. Your temperament and 0:13:34.200 --> 0:13:36.360 who you are and all of those things are in 0:13:36.440 --> 0:13:40.080 alignment and coordinate with your trials and tribulations as well 0:13:40.120 --> 0:13:42.280 to get you on the other side. So again, like 0:13:42.600 --> 0:13:46.200 even Jada's tenacity and her sassiness could not have gotten 0:13:46.200 --> 0:13:49.280 her through Gammy in a different world to play that characters, 0:13:49.840 --> 0:13:53.680 certain things are in alignment, but the statement itself, I 0:13:53.679 --> 0:13:57.800 feel like it's a little blanket like nonetheless possibly true, 0:13:57.840 --> 0:14:00.599 I feel like it's blanketed. But that's me. What about you? 0:14:00.640 --> 0:14:03.080 How you feel about this? Well? Okay, so I get 0:14:03.080 --> 0:14:05.400 your point. I get your point. The key word in 0:14:05.440 --> 0:14:09.960 here for me is that they need that they needed 0:14:10.160 --> 0:14:13.679 to have gone through it. If you had not experienced 0:14:13.840 --> 0:14:17.120 that type of adversity, maybe you wouldn't have been able 0:14:17.160 --> 0:14:21.400 to prepare yourself what I think it is. And this 0:14:21.440 --> 0:14:24.600 may sound like a real kind of neutral response because 0:14:24.640 --> 0:14:27.480 I think there's value in what Jada said and merit 0:14:27.560 --> 0:14:31.080 in her words. Then, however, come apart from me, is 0:14:31.440 --> 0:14:33.960 I think that it is true that all of us, 0:14:34.040 --> 0:14:37.600 in the adversities that we experience, can help shape us, 0:14:38.200 --> 0:14:40.440 right if we take it and use it as a 0:14:40.440 --> 0:14:44.440 tool to truly shape us. Because sometimes adversity, and we 0:14:44.600 --> 0:14:48.640 see this with people, sometimes adversity will break a soul 0:14:48.800 --> 0:14:53.280 down to the last compound and give them absolute helplessness 0:14:53.320 --> 0:14:57.320 and make them unable to perform and reach forward their 0:14:57.360 --> 0:15:01.760 goals and have that tenactity. So it's interesting adversity I 0:15:01.800 --> 0:15:03.880 think can be a double edged sword. I think that 0:15:03.920 --> 0:15:06.680 it can make you hyper focused. I think it can 0:15:06.680 --> 0:15:10.720 make you hyper independent. But remember Jada also said in 0:15:10.720 --> 0:15:14.840 a previous episode that she was frozen and she's a thawing, right, 0:15:14.840 --> 0:15:17.120 And I think part of the young dawing is also 0:15:17.400 --> 0:15:21.640 from all of the adversity. So the trump happened to 0:15:21.680 --> 0:15:24.720 be so cold, just frozen. This is not just a 0:15:24.760 --> 0:15:27.360 still moment in time. She was cold for one day 0:15:27.360 --> 0:15:29.360 and got back to herself. So, like you said, like 0:15:29.400 --> 0:15:33.040 some of these adversities have long term effects and then 0:15:33.600 --> 0:15:37.480 you don't come here blank right, So your temperament definitely 0:15:37.520 --> 0:15:41.360 plays into what you can and can't handle or how 0:15:41.440 --> 0:15:43.960 you get through things. So yeah, it was a way 0:15:44.040 --> 0:15:46.240 what because I was like, Okay, that's good. But I 0:15:46.280 --> 0:15:49.240 think it also lets the mothers off the hook. I 0:15:49.240 --> 0:15:51.680 think that was a way for them to say, let 0:15:51.680 --> 0:15:53.680 me give you, give you a little bit of grace 0:15:53.720 --> 0:15:55.440 here and say if we hadn't gone through that, we 0:15:55.440 --> 0:15:58.880 wouldn't have been able to achieve this kind of success. Mmmmmm. 0:15:59.320 --> 0:16:01.840 I like that. Well. One of the other way What 0:16:02.000 --> 0:16:05.600 moments was Denise revealing that it was her idea for 0:16:05.680 --> 0:16:08.840 Jamale to see therapy. That's the point I started the 0:16:08.840 --> 0:16:11.560 book is that about how I started going to therapy 0:16:11.600 --> 0:16:14.680 because my mother said, I think you're angry and you 0:16:14.760 --> 0:16:16.480 just don't know you're angry, and maybe you need to 0:16:16.480 --> 0:16:22.960 see somebody. I'm like, what are you talking about? And 0:16:23.000 --> 0:16:25.040 so I was like, well, maybe I shall start saying 0:16:25.040 --> 0:16:28.080 somebody just to see if this is true? What the 0:16:28.080 --> 0:16:31.000 way to go older generation, because we do not hear 0:16:31.080 --> 0:16:35.080 that often. This was wait, what for real? But I 0:16:35.120 --> 0:16:38.480 think it also speaks to how Denise knew I might 0:16:38.480 --> 0:16:41.280 have messed you up a little bit. I was really 0:16:41.760 --> 0:16:43.640 I was really to the left. I need you to 0:16:43.760 --> 0:16:47.880 just just go and see and make sure you are straight. 0:16:47.960 --> 0:16:50.720 Do you have older family members to Tracy who encouraged 0:16:50.760 --> 0:16:53.840 therapy or who go to therapy themselves that you know? 0:16:54.320 --> 0:16:56.760 This is interesting? This is such a good question. So 0:16:56.840 --> 0:16:59.400 shout out to the baby Boomers and the ones that 0:16:59.480 --> 0:17:02.600 came before in the Great Generation, because therapy was not 0:17:02.680 --> 0:17:06.159 part of their vernacular. Right for Denise to be in 0:17:06.200 --> 0:17:09.520 a position to say to her daughter, you may need 0:17:09.600 --> 0:17:12.160 to get therapy, that was a way what for me? 0:17:12.600 --> 0:17:15.879 I mean, true, you're angry, I think you may be. 0:17:17.800 --> 0:17:20.400 She was able pinpointed, and she was what do you mean, 0:17:20.480 --> 0:17:23.160 I'm not angry, and so I love that. And so 0:17:24.440 --> 0:17:27.760 for me, I'm trying to think in my family, there 0:17:27.800 --> 0:17:30.360 may be a couple of people that are in that 0:17:30.480 --> 0:17:34.879 generation in my family who would consider and maybe one 0:17:35.040 --> 0:17:40.600 other who has actually experienced therapy, But for the rest 0:17:40.600 --> 0:17:46.120 of them, no way, no way, because they were having 0:17:46.119 --> 0:17:48.080 to be tough. I had time to go talk about 0:17:48.080 --> 0:17:52.399 your feelings. How do you feel? You feel like you 0:17:52.480 --> 0:17:54.160 got a job you need to go to in the morning. 0:17:54.240 --> 0:17:56.879 It's true, that's true. I mean, plus they it was 0:17:56.920 --> 0:18:01.879 the having to stop and go talk to someone or 0:18:02.000 --> 0:18:05.240 solve a problem that I had to face anyway. So 0:18:05.560 --> 0:18:08.240 and then in that in that generation, here's the reality. Car, 0:18:08.640 --> 0:18:11.919 I'm not going to tell no white person my problem. 0:18:12.080 --> 0:18:14.080 That part I wasn't even us around to too. So 0:18:14.119 --> 0:18:15.760 that's the other part of it. And what happens in 0:18:15.800 --> 0:18:17.320 my house stays in my hear you know, there's just 0:18:17.359 --> 0:18:20.560 a secrecy, there is a privacy that this new generation 0:18:20.680 --> 0:18:26.040 is just more open to that. Well wait, what was wait? What? Wait? 0:18:26.080 --> 0:18:39.000 What sure? What did you think of this episode? Off? Oh? 0:18:39.080 --> 0:18:44.360 I cried, I cried. I cried with Gammy. I cried 0:18:44.440 --> 0:18:48.040 with Gammy. Just how she got choked up. I didn't 0:18:48.040 --> 0:18:50.920 cry the entire episode. Had We've had some episodes where 0:18:51.000 --> 0:18:53.600 you could ride from beginning to end, But when Gammy 0:18:53.640 --> 0:18:58.399 got choked up, I was like, oh, Gammy, Yeah, I saw, 0:18:59.080 --> 0:19:03.040 I saw the doors. I saw Jamal and Jada ready 0:19:03.080 --> 0:19:07.040 to help their mothers if they got two emotional. That's 0:19:07.040 --> 0:19:09.080 what I saw. I saw Willow trying to make sure 0:19:09.119 --> 0:19:12.080 she don't repeat any of these patterns. That's what I saw. Okay, 0:19:12.119 --> 0:19:15.600 Now there's such a that's such a valid point that 0:19:15.800 --> 0:19:19.399 part was observing. Like Willow was at the feet of 0:19:19.480 --> 0:19:22.560 Masters and she said, you know what, I know that 0:19:22.640 --> 0:19:24.520 I know I need to be quiet right now and 0:19:24.560 --> 0:19:30.159 just take this in because a child's place, right and 0:19:30.200 --> 0:19:33.359 like she was welcome and od she is just number 0:19:33.359 --> 0:19:36.440 one Willows just beyond her years, open and hearing perspectives, 0:19:36.560 --> 0:19:40.200 knowing that if I was in that this could have been. 0:19:40.520 --> 0:19:43.800 And also I feel like she was definitely aware that 0:19:44.160 --> 0:19:48.520 even though my mother's like celebrity is not a negative trauma, 0:19:49.400 --> 0:19:52.520 it is a different lifestyle that impacts me different than others. 0:19:52.560 --> 0:19:55.680 And now we can just all have different perspectives and 0:19:55.680 --> 0:19:59.520 and experiences and ups and downs. So it was nice 0:19:59.520 --> 0:20:01.720 to see all the transparency at the table. I enjoyed it. 0:20:01.800 --> 0:20:06.119 All the mother and daughter connection in this episode. It 0:20:06.200 --> 0:20:08.720 was truly the gift. And I can tell you the 0:20:08.800 --> 0:20:14.440 other thing that made me cry how amazingly connected Gammy 0:20:14.640 --> 0:20:17.360 and Denise were, how they were checking in with each other, 0:20:17.680 --> 0:20:19.800 let me make sure, let me you got this. I 0:20:19.800 --> 0:20:23.800 thought that was phenomenal. I thought that was What did 0:20:23.840 --> 0:20:25.959 you think about that? Yeah? What did you think? Car? 0:20:26.240 --> 0:20:29.680 It was like the unspoken moments for me, right, feel 0:20:29.760 --> 0:20:32.280 like that happens a lot in our Black language. All 0:20:32.280 --> 0:20:34.439 it takes is a look where you can look at 0:20:34.440 --> 0:20:36.680 the woman next to you and be like, mm hmmmm, 0:20:37.600 --> 0:20:40.800 I know exactly what you mean. I know exactly how 0:20:40.840 --> 0:20:44.119 that felt. And I think it's interesting for our culture 0:20:44.160 --> 0:20:47.080 because rarely could we speak. So now that we're allowed 0:20:47.119 --> 0:20:49.679 to have the language and use the language and share 0:20:49.720 --> 0:20:52.879 the language and the knowledge, we see how far it 0:20:52.920 --> 0:20:57.159 transcends across families. This is not just Oh, two women 0:20:57.200 --> 0:20:59.520 with addiction who decided to come to the table today 0:20:59.560 --> 0:21:03.520 like he didn't plan right, journeys being the same, and 0:21:03.600 --> 0:21:06.679 it's amazing how their journeys were different but so aligned 0:21:06.800 --> 0:21:09.119 and so much alife and that he was like at 0:21:09.119 --> 0:21:10.760 one point and he said, well did you feel this? 0:21:10.800 --> 0:21:12.439 And game it was like what about this? Were you? 0:21:12.720 --> 0:21:14.640 And I just I love that. I love that they 0:21:14.640 --> 0:21:17.359 were able to not have any shame, to not be 0:21:17.480 --> 0:21:20.840 ashamed that you are recovering addict and not be ashamed 0:21:21.080 --> 0:21:23.040 that you were at this table and that you had 0:21:23.160 --> 0:21:26.120 your choices affected your daughter. So I'm grateful for that 0:21:26.119 --> 0:21:28.640 that part, that part well in affected and I mean 0:21:29.160 --> 0:21:31.920 in both negative and positive ways. We're talking about two 0:21:32.160 --> 0:21:37.320 uber successful women. This is not a mistake, so they 0:21:37.400 --> 0:21:40.800 definitely put in the work. Speaking of work, Cara, you 0:21:40.960 --> 0:21:46.480 computed four hours both ways for ten years to crush 0:21:46.520 --> 0:21:48.959 it at your government job. How did your family support 0:21:49.040 --> 0:21:52.920 you in your pursuit in your high demand career. Shout 0:21:52.920 --> 0:21:55.040 out to the family support man. I have my brothers 0:21:55.080 --> 0:21:57.359 supporting me. I have one brother's passed, but I had 0:21:57.359 --> 0:22:00.280 three brothers and three sisters, so I have a big family. 0:22:00.320 --> 0:22:02.600 But we're not close because I am the baby, right, 0:22:02.680 --> 0:22:05.919 So they support and just if I say I needed, 0:22:06.000 --> 0:22:08.399 we're gonna all figure it out. So that was exciting 0:22:08.480 --> 0:22:12.080