Speaker 1: Hey y'all. Hey, what's up? And welcome to Let's Red
Speaker 1: Table that I'm Tracy t row and on Carl Presley.
Speaker 1: How are you feeling the day's Tracy? You sound successful?
Speaker 1: You know what? I am successful and every day amazing.
Speaker 1: I am so glad to be here. We have this
Speaker 1: fantastic opportunity to talk about this wonderful episode. Today's episode.
Speaker 1: Jamal Halls, Oh wow, I love Jamale Hill. I remember
Speaker 1: when they came on a few seasons ago with Carrie Champions,
Speaker 1: she came on together. It was very nice to just
Speaker 1: hear her story. Who are you? How did you feel
Speaker 1: about it? So much to unpack it? This episode was
Speaker 1: just sweet to me. It was just endearing, especially because
Speaker 1: her mom was on with her. Just think about the
Speaker 1: sweetness of that and that they were so open and
Speaker 1: so loving. You could just feel like the warmth at
Speaker 1: the table and to have Denise and Jamal and then
Speaker 1: Gammy and Willow and Jade uh and you know, it
Speaker 1: was just beautiful. It really was. What did you think?
Speaker 1: I thought it was amazing. I thought it was very touching.
Speaker 1: I thought it was successful. Again, it was just very
Speaker 1: nice to hear Jamal's story from her from her mouth,
Speaker 1: Like it's interesting when the book released comes out right
Speaker 1: thanks to Audible, you can hear it now read in
Speaker 1: people's right. But I love to just hear the backstory too,
Speaker 1: or hear the parts that really stuck out to them.
Speaker 1: You just feel like you're getting closer with them. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I consider Jamale Hill of Pure g So the fact
Speaker 1: that she was able to come and share even more
Speaker 1: of her story now that she has to memoir out,
Speaker 1: it's like, wow, I had no idea. The biggest part
Speaker 1: of it to me, though, Kyra, was that she and
Speaker 1: her mom were able to do this together. I feel
Speaker 1: like everyone's journey with their mother is just completely different,
Speaker 1: and like Willow Janda Game, they already started to show
Speaker 1: us with their own stories, Hey y'all, we are far
Speaker 1: from traditional and we're getting through it. How are you
Speaker 1: getting through it? So just every single week there's another connection,
Speaker 1: another opportunity to see, Hey, we're not doing it wrong.
Speaker 1: We're just doing life with each other out here, and
Speaker 1: it's just reminded us how our relationship is, Like, how
Speaker 1: is your relationship right now with your mother? I thought
Speaker 1: about my mom a lot, saying Jamal with her mom,
Speaker 1: Denise and what would we do at the red table?
Speaker 1: How would that go for us at the red table?
Speaker 1: And my mom is very much a talker, but there's
Speaker 1: something like a truth serum that happens at that red table.
Speaker 1: So it would be interesting to see you right, how
Speaker 1: many people up said that, Like, I don't know how
Speaker 1: you just start taking out the blue right, what happens
Speaker 1: at this table? This table has power. It would be
Speaker 1: interesting for me to see, you know, how our conversation
Speaker 1: would go, because we talk all the time, but there's
Speaker 1: something different about the table. I think that, given the opportunity,
Speaker 1: would be a cathartic experience. What about you? You know,
Speaker 1: me and my mother are I feel like our relationships
Speaker 1: constantly evolving. I told you guys, like earlier in the season,
Speaker 1: how we did an event where I wanted to learn
Speaker 1: from her again, right, she's a floor, So she did
Speaker 1: some flower rangements and we did an exercise of naming
Speaker 1: that arrangement after you to learn how to take care
Speaker 1: of yourselves. And we're actually going to a retreat to
Speaker 1: do it again. So again we're like growing closer all
Speaker 1: the time now on having more conversations. But through episodes
Speaker 1: like this, I realized maybe I don't need to know
Speaker 1: a little bit more about your story, so right, And
Speaker 1: you know, my mom has been battling cancer for the
Speaker 1: last year and a half, and so it's amazing to
Speaker 1: see the resilience and her absolute determination and grit. It's
Speaker 1: a whole another level of respect that I have for her.
Speaker 1: And she just rang the bell and so I'm so
Speaker 1: proud of her and all that she's gone through. We're
Speaker 1: still on course and we're still in the journey, but
Speaker 1: I'm just grateful that she has a warrior spirit, right, absolutely,
Speaker 1: warrior spirit. Shout out to to her the survivor. My
Speaker 1: mom went through her issue last year as well. They
Speaker 1: caught something early and she had a few rounds of radiation,
Speaker 1: so she wrung her bell as well. But it's like
Speaker 1: you're just still you kind of wait to see what's
Speaker 1: going to happen, but just you recognize that every moment
Speaker 1: we have them is just every moment. Now it's time
Speaker 1: for us to share what our online Red Table Talk
Speaker 1: community has to say about this episode. We'd love hearing
Speaker 1: from our community, so come on, go ahead and read
Speaker 1: what Kenya Simmons had to say to kick it off.
Speaker 1: Kenya Simmons said, when Gammy broke down, I did too.
Speaker 1: You could feel her remorse. This was a good episode.
Speaker 1: Completely agree. Just like Gammy said, It's like a back
Speaker 1: and forth that you go through, just as far as
Speaker 1: what your life entailed and the things you take your
Speaker 1: children through. It's interesting to watch them in real time
Speaker 1: give us these episodes and share their transparent feelings because
Speaker 1: you can't fake that. So shut out to give me
Speaker 1: for constantly being transparent with us, she keeps it on real.
Speaker 1: Jennifer Bauer, you gave us some fantastic feedback, you said,
Speaker 1: thank you for our t T. I felt this episode
Speaker 1: in the depths of my soul. I have been working
Speaker 1: so hard, but especially for the last three and a
Speaker 1: half years, to break my family's generational curses. Oh wow,
Speaker 1: this episode described my mother and my relationship to a t.
Speaker 1: Thank you for this with the heart emoji. Jennifer, thank you.
Speaker 1: We appreciate your comment, and I'm so grateful to hear
Speaker 1: that you're and your mother's relationship his healing and going
Speaker 1: through and you're breaking those generational curses. So important. Absolutely,
Speaker 1: my ro orty says man, oh Man, this one hit hard.
Speaker 1: Trying to figure out how to talk to my baby
Speaker 1: girl about this. Oh man, how do I even start
Speaker 1: That part of the episode where Jamal shared how she
Speaker 1: got out of her own situation because her mother had
Speaker 1: shared her situation, and the fact that she knew how
Speaker 1: to fight or knew to fight, the fact that she
Speaker 1: knew that this energy just wasn't right, like she knew
Speaker 1: the signs so heartbreaking because it shows you how quickly
Speaker 1: something could happen. Yeah, that's so true. I don't know
Speaker 1: what you say to your baby girl, Myra. Good luck
Speaker 1: to you and thank you for giving us your comment.
Speaker 1: Kiandra Darl said this episode hit hard. I have a
Speaker 1: complicated relationship with my mother due to traumas I have experienced.
Speaker 1: This helped me to see I am not alone. Thanks
Speaker 1: our t T. Keep up the amazing work, Red Heart emojing. Oh.
Speaker 1: So many traumas, so many traumas, so many traumas. But
Speaker 1: I'm glad we're to be able to figure it all out. Well,
Speaker 1: at least address it and acknowledge it. Yeah, at least
Speaker 1: start somewhere. We're going to take a quick break, but
Speaker 1: when we get back, we're really going to dive into
Speaker 1: this interview with Jamal Hill, So stay tuned. This is
Speaker 1: the part of the show where we reveal which moments
Speaker 1: made us pause, rewind, and listen again. Why what, Wait what?
Speaker 1: I'll kick it off, go ahead. First of all, I
Speaker 1: loved hearing that this was Jamale's mother's first interview. Jamal
Speaker 1: and her mom have never sat down for an interview together.
Speaker 1: We are so honored that they're doing it at the table.
Speaker 1: So jamalte introduced us to your well, I guess um,
Speaker 1: it feels like a worldwide debut. Everybody can meet my mom,
Speaker 1: Denise listen. Denise was so successful. She knew she was
Speaker 1: doing and she did, and she carried on the conversation
Speaker 1: and she was accountable, and she was able to share
Speaker 1: that moment with her baby girl, especially after she shared
Speaker 1: that she didn't know if her daughter needed her or
Speaker 1: she didn't know if if she had a like maybe
Speaker 1: a successful place in her life. But you do have
Speaker 1: a place. Your daughter does need you, and that conversation
Speaker 1: was necessaryus. So I enjoyed that they were able to
Speaker 1: go through this together. If you and your mom were
Speaker 1: doing an interview together, what story would you too tell? Tracy?
Speaker 1: Oh gosh, there's so many I can tell you. My mom.
Speaker 1: One of the first stories that my mom tells people
Speaker 1: about me when she meets them and they know me
Speaker 1: and she hasn't met him is the story when I
Speaker 1: was in the second grade. I'm confident that would be
Speaker 1: the story she tells. And it was a trauma, but
Speaker 1: it wasn't when I experienced. It was one that I
Speaker 1: tried to circumvent on behalf of someone. In the second grade,
Speaker 1: there was one of my students, one of my peer students,
Speaker 1: was in a swing and a little boy came and
Speaker 1: pushed her out of the swing. And I wasn't having
Speaker 1: I was not having about second grade Tracy Brow. And
Speaker 1: the little girl fell and hurt her arm. She was
Speaker 1: crying and she was being a little bit dramatic. So
Speaker 1: the first thing I did is i'd monished the little
Speaker 1: boy and told him wrong. I didn't use the word
Speaker 1: bully because we didn't know that, but I was like,
Speaker 1: you're wrong, inappropriate, don't do that. And then I went
Speaker 1: over to the little girl and I said, and this
Speaker 1: is what my mom loves to say, I told a
Speaker 1: little girl bear the pain and spare the tears. But
Speaker 1: now such wise words. Well, and I don't know, you know,
Speaker 1: it was they were strong because it wasn't necessarily one
Speaker 1: that was a healing and a comforting, empathetic kind of word.
Speaker 1: But I was telling her, you gotta be strong here,
Speaker 1: stand up for yourself. But what my mom would do
Speaker 1: if we were at the table with that story car,
Speaker 1: she would literally say what she said to one of
Speaker 1: my dear friends, that the little girl fell, broke her arm,
Speaker 1: her radio, all nerves were out of her skin, and
Speaker 1: like I immediately triazed her and did surgery in the yard.
Speaker 1: It would be like I was a superhero, tramatic. But
Speaker 1: I understand the energy if Tracy's moment is like Tracy,
Speaker 1: because it's the story telling from me, and I could
Speaker 1: see you, Tracy on the playground now, like you sitting
Speaker 1: time out. It was very much like playground. What about you?
Speaker 1: What would be the story you and your mom would share.
Speaker 1: I don't know what story my mom tells when my
Speaker 1: name comes up. I have no idea. I don't know
Speaker 1: what that story would be. There's an opportunity, there isn't
Speaker 1: There There is an opportunity I would need to ask.
Speaker 1: I know my dad before I left the government, it
Speaker 1: was my daughter works for the government. Your job is
Speaker 1: their accomplishment. So what is it? But we should have
Speaker 1: to ask were about to ask me? So she would
Speaker 1: you want her to say what I want? I don't know,
Speaker 1: because I really do want to know her perspective. I
Speaker 1: don't I don't want to give her a story she
Speaker 1: was talking about I don't know. Immediately comes to mind
Speaker 1: as I was talkative in school. To hear some of
Speaker 1: those story. I can only imagine the things I have forgotten. Yeah,
Speaker 1: isn't that something? Well, we may have an opportunity, we
Speaker 1: may have to replicate that. So, now do you know
Speaker 1: your mom's story? Car? Do I know my mom's story?
Speaker 1: I know pieces of my mom's story, and I know
Speaker 1: things that have come up situationally, right Like you're talking
Speaker 1: to your mom randomly and you're like, oh, man, I'm
Speaker 1: going through X Y Z and she's, oh, I went
Speaker 1: through that too, Really, because you could have definitely shared
Speaker 1: it a little bit earlier than in my mom. But
Speaker 1: as fine, as long as the stories are coming out,
Speaker 1: it's always good to hear. So has she shared as
Speaker 1: deeply like Denise did with Jamale? Not that if my
Speaker 1: mom has that form of trauma? Not? Not at all?
Speaker 1: Have we shared that deeply? But I feel like we've
Speaker 1: shared some deep things, right, so as far as like
Speaker 1: the bond and and just parts of her journey as
Speaker 1: a woman, I feel like I know some of those. So, yeah,
Speaker 1: what about you? Do you know your mom's story? I
Speaker 1: can tell you that I do know my mom's story. Thankfully,
Speaker 1: she did not have drug abuse as part of her story,
Speaker 1: but there were some things that she shared with me
Speaker 1: that were definitely traumatic in her life and it was
Speaker 1: really difficult for me to hear it, and it helped
Speaker 1: shape who she is and and that city. But her
Speaker 1: sharing it also made us closer, but it was hard
Speaker 1: to sit in it. It was hard to to process it.
Speaker 1: Some of the hardships that she encountered were being a
Speaker 1: black woman in her time, and it was difficult to hear.
Speaker 1: But it did help me. I can tell you that
Speaker 1: it affected my life in a way that gave me
Speaker 1: a voice. And because she had experienced those traumas, she
Speaker 1: was really truly a pillar for me, so that when
Speaker 1: I had the opportunity to speak up and speak out,
Speaker 1: I could because I knew that she was going to
Speaker 1: back me up. And so I'm grateful for that. Another
Speaker 1: fantastic weight what moment in this episode was Jada saying
Speaker 1: Jamal needed to experience adversity to get where she is today.
Speaker 1: Jada said, and I would imagine you correct me if
Speaker 1: I'm wrong. The places that Jamal has been and what
Speaker 1: she's had to deal with, she might not have been
Speaker 1: able to do that without the level of adversity that
Speaker 1: she had as a child. Now this it's interesting to me,
Speaker 1: So I want to know from you first, do you
Speaker 1: agree or disagree with that state? You know, I want
Speaker 1: to believe that I agree with it at the same time,
Speaker 1: at the same time, a part of me, it's not
Speaker 1: sure if that is something that we say as black
Speaker 1: people to justify the trials and tribulations we go through overall,
Speaker 1: like just to end all be all form of a statement.
Speaker 1: So I do believe portions of it. And I loved
Speaker 1: the part of this show where the therapist at the
Speaker 1: end says, we don't come here blank. Your temperament and
Speaker 1: who you are and all of those things are in
Speaker 1: alignment and coordinate with your trials and tribulations as well
Speaker 1: to get you on the other side. So again, like
Speaker 1: even Jada's tenacity and her sassiness could not have gotten
Speaker 1: her through Gammy in a different world to play that characters,
Speaker 1: certain things are in alignment, but the statement itself, I
Speaker 1: feel like it's a little blanket like nonetheless possibly true,
Speaker 1: I feel like it's blanketed. But that's me. What about you?
Speaker 1: How you feel about this? Well? Okay, so I get
Speaker 1: your point. I get your point. The key word in
Speaker 1: here for me is that they need that they needed
Speaker 1: to have gone through it. If you had not experienced
Speaker 1: that type of adversity, maybe you wouldn't have been able
Speaker 1: to prepare yourself what I think it is. And this
Speaker 1: may sound like a real kind of neutral response because
Speaker 1: I think there's value in what Jada said and merit
Speaker 1: in her words. Then, however, come apart from me, is
Speaker 1: I think that it is true that all of us,
Speaker 1: in the adversities that we experience, can help shape us,
Speaker 1: right if we take it and use it as a
Speaker 1: tool to truly shape us. Because sometimes adversity, and we
Speaker 1: see this with people, sometimes adversity will break a soul
Speaker 1: down to the last compound and give them absolute helplessness
Speaker 1: and make them unable to perform and reach forward their
Speaker 1: goals and have that tenactity. So it's interesting adversity I
Speaker 1: think can be a double edged sword. I think that
Speaker 1: it can make you hyper focused. I think it can
Speaker 1: make you hyper independent. But remember Jada also said in
Speaker 1: a previous episode that she was frozen and she's a thawing, right,
Speaker 1: And I think part of the young dawing is also
Speaker 1: from all of the adversity. So the trump happened to
Speaker 1: be so cold, just frozen. This is not just a
Speaker 1: still moment in time. She was cold for one day
Speaker 1: and got back to herself. So, like you said, like
Speaker 1: some of these adversities have long term effects and then
Speaker 1: you don't come here blank right, So your temperament definitely
Speaker 1: plays into what you can and can't handle or how
Speaker 1: you get through things. So yeah, it was a way
Speaker 1: what because I was like, Okay, that's good. But I
Speaker 1: think it also lets the mothers off the hook. I
Speaker 1: think that was a way for them to say, let
Speaker 1: me give you, give you a little bit of grace
Speaker 1: here and say if we hadn't gone through that, we
Speaker 1: wouldn't have been able to achieve this kind of success. Mmmmmm.
Speaker 1: I like that. Well. One of the other way What
Speaker 1: moments was Denise revealing that it was her idea for
Speaker 1: Jamale to see therapy. That's the point I started the
Speaker 1: book is that about how I started going to therapy
Speaker 1: because my mother said, I think you're angry and you
Speaker 1: just don't know you're angry, and maybe you need to
Speaker 1: see somebody. I'm like, what are you talking about? And
Speaker 1: so I was like, well, maybe I shall start saying
Speaker 1: somebody just to see if this is true? What the
Speaker 1: way to go older generation, because we do not hear
Speaker 1: that often. This was wait, what for real? But I
Speaker 1: think it also speaks to how Denise knew I might
Speaker 1: have messed you up a little bit. I was really
Speaker 1: I was really to the left. I need you to
Speaker 1: just just go and see and make sure you are straight.
Speaker 1: Do you have older family members to Tracy who encouraged
Speaker 1: therapy or who go to therapy themselves that you know?
Speaker 1: This is interesting? This is such a good question. So
Speaker 1: shout out to the baby Boomers and the ones that
Speaker 1: came before in the Great Generation, because therapy was not
Speaker 1: part of their vernacular. Right for Denise to be in
Speaker 1: a position to say to her daughter, you may need
Speaker 1: to get therapy, that was a way what for me?
Speaker 1: I mean, true, you're angry, I think you may be.
Speaker 1: She was able pinpointed, and she was what do you mean,
Speaker 1: I'm not angry, and so I love that. And so
Speaker 1: for me, I'm trying to think in my family, there
Speaker 1: may be a couple of people that are in that
Speaker 1: generation in my family who would consider and maybe one
Speaker 1: other who has actually experienced therapy, But for the rest
Speaker 1: of them, no way, no way, because they were having
Speaker 1: to be tough. I had time to go talk about
Speaker 1: your feelings. How do you feel? You feel like you
Speaker 1: got a job you need to go to in the morning.
Speaker 1: It's true, that's true. I mean, plus they it was
Speaker 1: the having to stop and go talk to someone or
Speaker 1: solve a problem that I had to face anyway. So
Speaker 1: and then in that in that generation, here's the reality. Car,
Speaker 1: I'm not going to tell no white person my problem.
Speaker 1: That part I wasn't even us around to too. So
Speaker 1: that's the other part of it. And what happens in
Speaker 1: my house stays in my hear you know, there's just
Speaker 1: a secrecy, there is a privacy that this new generation
Speaker 1: is just more open to that. Well wait, what was wait? What? Wait?
Speaker 1: What sure? What did you think of this episode? Off? Oh?
Speaker 1: I cried, I cried. I cried with Gammy. I cried
Speaker 1: with Gammy. Just how she got choked up. I didn't
Speaker 1: cry the entire episode. Had We've had some episodes where
Speaker 1: you could ride from beginning to end, But when Gammy
Speaker 1: got choked up, I was like, oh, Gammy, Yeah, I saw,
Speaker 1: I saw the doors. I saw Jamal and Jada ready
Speaker 1: to help their mothers if they got two emotional. That's
Speaker 1: what I saw. I saw Willow trying to make sure
Speaker 1: she don't repeat any of these patterns. That's what I saw. Okay,
Speaker 1: Now there's such a that's such a valid point that
Speaker 1: part was observing. Like Willow was at the feet of
Speaker 1: Masters and she said, you know what, I know that
Speaker 1: I know I need to be quiet right now and
Speaker 1: just take this in because a child's place, right and
Speaker 1: like she was welcome and od she is just number
Speaker 1: one Willows just beyond her years, open and hearing perspectives,
Speaker 1: knowing that if I was in that this could have been.
Speaker 1: And also I feel like she was definitely aware that
Speaker 1: even though my mother's like celebrity is not a negative trauma,
Speaker 1: it is a different lifestyle that impacts me different than others.
Speaker 1: And now we can just all have different perspectives and
Speaker 1: and experiences and ups and downs. So it was nice
Speaker 1: to see all the transparency at the table. I enjoyed it.
Speaker 1: All the mother and daughter connection in this episode. It
Speaker 1: was truly the gift. And I can tell you the
Speaker 1: other thing that made me cry how amazingly connected Gammy
Speaker 1: and Denise were, how they were checking in with each other,
Speaker 1: let me make sure, let me you got this. I
Speaker 1: thought that was phenomenal. I thought that was What did
Speaker 1: you think about that? Yeah? What did you think? Car?
Speaker 1: It was like the unspoken moments for me, right, feel
Speaker 1: like that happens a lot in our Black language. All
Speaker 1: it takes is a look where you can look at
Speaker 1: the woman next to you and be like, mm hmmmm,
Speaker 1: I know exactly what you mean. I know exactly how
Speaker 1: that felt. And I think it's interesting for our culture
Speaker 1: because rarely could we speak. So now that we're allowed
Speaker 1: to have the language and use the language and share
Speaker 1: the language and the knowledge, we see how far it
Speaker 1: transcends across families. This is not just Oh, two women
Speaker 1: with addiction who decided to come to the table today
Speaker 1: like he didn't plan right, journeys being the same, and
Speaker 1: it's amazing how their journeys were different but so aligned
Speaker 1: and so much alife and that he was like at
Speaker 1: one point and he said, well did you feel this?
Speaker 1: And game it was like what about this? Were you?
Speaker 1: And I just I love that. I love that they
Speaker 1: were able to not have any shame, to not be
Speaker 1: ashamed that you are recovering addict and not be ashamed
Speaker 1: that you were at this table and that you had
Speaker 1: your choices affected your daughter. So I'm grateful for that
Speaker 1: that part, that part well in affected and I mean
Speaker 1: in both negative and positive ways. We're talking about two
Speaker 1: uber successful women. This is not a mistake, so they
Speaker 1: definitely put in the work. Speaking of work, Cara, you
Speaker 1: computed four hours both ways for ten years to crush
Speaker 1: it at your government job. How did your family support
Speaker 1: you in your pursuit in your high demand career. Shout
Speaker 1: out to the family support man. I have my brothers
Speaker 1: supporting me. I have one brother's passed, but I had
Speaker 1: three brothers and three sisters, so I have a big family.
Speaker 1: But we're not close because I am the baby, right,
Speaker 1: So they support and just if I say I needed,
Speaker 1: we're gonna all figure it out. So that was exciting
Speaker 1: and nice to see and and I appreciate that part
Speaker 1: of my life because it allowed my son to to
Speaker 1: also see like what I was going through to get
Speaker 1: to work. So now that he has a nice little job, holleylup,
Speaker 1: how far how much was gashed back then? Right? Right?
Speaker 1: But during the entire Obama administration, So so it was
Speaker 1: too that's a lot. That's a lot of two hours
Speaker 1: up two hours back, right, but it was it was
Speaker 1: worth a shout out to them for supporting me and
Speaker 1: my friends, for sure. They definitely Yeah, I was gonna
Speaker 1: ask you, however, your friends and family encourage you as
Speaker 1: you're now making this career shift, you know, shout out
Speaker 1: to them as well, because of course, before I left
Speaker 1: the government, I was doing small side hustle jobs. Man,
Speaker 1: let me tell you if you're if your friends are
Speaker 1: out there selling candles, selling journals like I was, or
Speaker 1: doing stand up comedy like I also was, please go
Speaker 1: to the show, Please go to the pop up an event.
Speaker 1: It please just it's not even about buying. It's just
Speaker 1: about seeing somebody they know in the crowd, asking them
Speaker 1: what their prices are, who asking them how they're feeling.
Speaker 1: And please know that they are probably doing this to
Speaker 1: help stay in a positive mental space regardless of what's
Speaker 1: going on in their life. So shout out to my
Speaker 1: friends and family for helping me, because they helped keep
Speaker 1: me empowered right and remind me that, yes, I was
Speaker 1: making great decisions. They're continuing to help me as I
Speaker 1: shift into this and I know they are listening to
Speaker 1: this podcast episode. So hey, family and friends, I love y'all. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and I'm just excited about about where things are going.
Speaker 1: But I definitely couldn't have any of it without them, alright,
Speaker 1: So I know I'm not the only one right who's
Speaker 1: working hard and doing successful things. So, Tracy, how did
Speaker 1: you keep from getting imposter syndrome and work and just
Speaker 1: in life in general? How's your family supported you on that?
Speaker 1: Oh gosh, oh wow, imposter syndrome that you know how
Speaker 1: experienced it even of course, of course, I mean if
Speaker 1: you have any measure of success, however it's measured because
Speaker 1: it's so relative, right that you wonder at some point
Speaker 1: is this right? Am I real? And because you do
Speaker 1: the fake it till you make it so much that
Speaker 1: you have to say, okay, wait a second, let me
Speaker 1: just take stock and inventory here, let me self assessed. So, yes,
Speaker 1: I have definitely felt imposter syndrome and at work, especially
Speaker 1: because there is the balance of you got a code
Speaker 1: switch and balancing who I am and knowing who I am.
Speaker 1: So it has been a roller coaster ride. But now
Speaker 1: I can tell you in life in general, I knew
Speaker 1: I was that girl, just it was at work that
Speaker 1: you have to make sure you know your your way
Speaker 1: and navigate through from a corporate environment as a black
Speaker 1: woman that's outspoken, there's a lot that can be associated
Speaker 1: with that. So and it can and do you feel
Speaker 1: like you coach witch? I definitely was one of the ones.
Speaker 1: The car you see is the car you get baby
Speaker 1: voice all that, Oh no, ma'am, the level of professionalism,
Speaker 1: but this is more no no, no, no, no, no, no, no,
Speaker 1: no is it? I mean I was a cold Oh
Speaker 1: my gosh. I mean I'm I'm much more neutral now,
Speaker 1: but I was a colde switching queen. What are you
Speaker 1: talking about? Oh my gosh, Colin. Yes, I've definitely been
Speaker 1: a black sheet. That's why it was difficult when I
Speaker 1: moved up, because I just they're like, you moved up
Speaker 1: acting like that, Yes, traditionally authentically myself. Yes, I did well.
Speaker 1: I was authentically cold and and you know that's okay.
Speaker 1: Now you brought up a good point. Here's another good point.
Speaker 1: I wasn't being a false image of myself in the codes.
Speaker 1: It was just the tone. It was just filter. It's
Speaker 1: like filter on, filter off. And so that's how I
Speaker 1: envisioned code switching, which can often confuse people when they
Speaker 1: think about the imposter syndrome part, am I really doing this?
Speaker 1: Is this really me? Or is this somebody that I'm
Speaker 1: playing like I'm acting like this because I have this
Speaker 1: filter on? But no, I'm still very much authentically me too.
Speaker 1: I just knew that certain things would and would not
Speaker 1: be received well and talk about this all the time.
Speaker 1: This is also and that's why I think I initially
Speaker 1: got offended by code switching at first. Was I'm like,
Speaker 1: what do you mean, I'm cold switching because in my mind,
Speaker 1: this is a survival thing. Nobody can come in at
Speaker 1: the level I was in the government and speak in
Speaker 1: the way you think I should speak at the football
Speaker 1: house on Sunday. I just need you don't understand that
Speaker 1: it just doesn't work that way for the level of government.
Speaker 1: I was, how did you still being me? Because it's
Speaker 1: the narrative that you put in your head. So that's
Speaker 1: what I was saying, like, I still it was just
Speaker 1: my tone that was changing. It's actually this voice I'm
Speaker 1: using right now. I just wasn't saying a whole bunch
Speaker 1: of you know what I'm talking about. It's just the
Speaker 1: language changed, So I didn't. I never saw this code switching.
Speaker 1: I saw this surviving. But now that I understand the
Speaker 1: narrative a little bit more and what that can feel
Speaker 1: like the differences, some people will hear my change in
Speaker 1: tone and assume it's not me. So that's the part
Speaker 1: I feel like it's being understood more in this day
Speaker 1: and time, that yes, this can be authentically you and
Speaker 1: you can't have a professional voice in a professional space.
Speaker 1: Well you know, you talk about your voice and saying like,
Speaker 1: how did you get to this level in the job
Speaker 1: where you were in your government position? How as the
Speaker 1: only black woman in that male dominated workplace did you
Speaker 1: manage working there? I had to be me because there
Speaker 1: were certain assumptions that preceded me that I had to
Speaker 1: constantly debunk in different ways. That is exhausting. That is exhausting.
Speaker 1: I have a few examples, but I literally had a
Speaker 1: snowstorm one time at work and I told them that
Speaker 1: the power was out, I can't work. We're on the phone.
Speaker 1: I can't work, so I'll let y'all know when it's
Speaker 1: back on. The acting boss at the time called the
Speaker 1: acting director and said, I don't think the snows is
Speaker 1: bad in her area. She thinks I'm not sure if
Speaker 1: her cable is really out perfect time, and my director said,
Speaker 1: are you saying what I think you're saying? Like insinuating
Speaker 1: that I'm the one lying, And at that moment my
Speaker 1: director was like, what car has been saying? It's true,
Speaker 1: because I was like, it's like they're picking on me.
Speaker 1: Of course, people get annoyed or they get they get
Speaker 1: scared when you bring up the racist word in the
Speaker 1: corporate workplace. But I had to start using elementary words
Speaker 1: so y'all can hear me. I'm being picked on. I
Speaker 1: don't know what else to say to you because y'all
Speaker 1: act like y'all not understanding what I'm saying. But yeah,
Speaker 1: I had to be very authentic and who I wasn't
Speaker 1: just I had to say a lot of prayers reminding
Speaker 1: myself who I was when I walked into work. That's
Speaker 1: where that imposter syndrome as well. That piece plays apart
Speaker 1: speaking of being authentic and staying true to who you are. Tracy,
Speaker 1: how do you make your voice heard when you know
Speaker 1: others might have a hard time listening you. I go
Speaker 1: back to what I said about the trauma my mom
Speaker 1: experienced and her not being allowed to have her voice
Speaker 1: and not being heard. Intentionally, sometimes people pretend not to
Speaker 1: hear you, like accidentally on purpose, didn't hear what you said.
Speaker 1: And so I experienced that. And one of the things that,
Speaker 1: thankfully because I went to school for communications, so there
Speaker 1: was some training behind the method, right. But what I
Speaker 1: use and I still use this now, is I will
Speaker 1: literally lock eyeballs with someone when they're talking. And for
Speaker 1: whatever reason, that can be intimidating the people, and it's not.
Speaker 1: It wasn't meant to be intimidating. It was meant to
Speaker 1: let you know I am intentionally, purposefully, actively listening to you.
Speaker 1: So when you finish saying your point, I'm going to
Speaker 1: acknowledge it, affirm it, and then I'm going to say
Speaker 1: what I want to say, and then if it's glossed over,
Speaker 1: I will come back to it and I will be
Speaker 1: like a dog with a bone. And that is how
Speaker 1: for people who have had a hard time air quotes.
Speaker 1: Hearing me and listening to the words that are coming
Speaker 1: out of my mouth. I ensure that I am clear
Speaker 1: and I am articulating and so that they can process.
Speaker 1: And then most times in the hard time listening, I
Speaker 1: will finish with a question did you understand what I said?
Speaker 1: Or do you have any questions? So then you can't
Speaker 1: act like you didn't hear me. Right, It's called playing
Speaker 1: in my face. This is what you're not gonna do.
Speaker 1: You're not gonna act and or play in my face.
Speaker 1: You know what I said. There are some things that
Speaker 1: come as a result of that, because you there's a firmness.
Speaker 1: First of all, my voice projects out of this world anyway.
Speaker 1: And if I'm looking you in your face and in
Speaker 1: your eyeballs, and I'm speaking very intentionally in the Oprah
Speaker 1: kind of way, you know I'm talking to you. And
Speaker 1: so then it goes from yes, I heard you. But
Speaker 1: then then the supervisor has come and have a come
Speaker 1: versation with me because you don' I'm too aggressive. Oh gosh,
Speaker 1: I think you know what I think? A break? Okay,
Speaker 1: so we're gonna take it. Yes, we're gonna take a
Speaker 1: short break right now. And when we come back, we'll
Speaker 1: talk about what the Red Table didn't. Now it's time
Speaker 1: to talk about what the Red Table did not cover.
Speaker 1: From Jamale Hill's book Uphill, We're gonna cover the top
Speaker 1: five things. Car. Are you ready to get started with
Speaker 1: number five? I'm excited. I'm excited. Listen. This is why
Speaker 1: y'all need to listen to the fan We watch podcasts
Speaker 1: and tell your friends the bonus information for me. Number five.
Speaker 1: Jamale's mom never made more than eighteen thousand dollars a
Speaker 1: year when Jamale was young, so they were on and
Speaker 1: off welfare. As a result, Denise were allied on the
Speaker 1: men who came in and out of her life for
Speaker 1: basic needs. Any man she dated, either casually or seriously,
Speaker 1: under stood that if they wanted to spend time with her,
Speaker 1: they had to put in on something. They had to
Speaker 1: put in on the rent or utility bills. They had
Speaker 1: to put gas in her car, by the groceries for
Speaker 1: the house, or give me a few dollars so that
Speaker 1: I could go to the corner store for treats. How
Speaker 1: might this example shape a person's view of romantic relationships? Tracy?
Speaker 1: What do you think? Wow, it could create an absolute
Speaker 1: codependent mindset, right, or a helplessness that I can't do this.
Speaker 1: I absolutely have to have a man. She could have
Speaker 1: very easily taken that and said there's no point in
Speaker 1: me even trying to do anything on my own, or
Speaker 1: she could have taken what she experienced and said, there's
Speaker 1: a big fat hell no, I will never rely on
Speaker 1: a man for anything. I got to do this for myself. Right,
Speaker 1: It's amazing. You just never know which side of the
Speaker 1: coin it's gonna land back. What do you think? I
Speaker 1: feel like it could also create a false pepestal like
Speaker 1: something that you would put a man on if he
Speaker 1: did give you gas money or gave your child a
Speaker 1: few dollars because you didn't have it, Like now you
Speaker 1: think maybe they're supposed to do these things, and when
Speaker 1: they don't and they don't love you, and that's not
Speaker 1: even the case, that's hard. That's a hard example. Bird
Speaker 1: Alright number four. Jamal shared that she briefly died at
Speaker 1: age seven. She was in the backseat of a car
Speaker 1: when a driver of an oncoming vehicle hit the gas
Speaker 1: instead of the break. Jamal's brain swelled and her skull
Speaker 1: was fractured. She remembers the lights of the other car
Speaker 1: coming toward her, then nothing for a while until she
Speaker 1: awoke in the hospital. She wrote, at some point my
Speaker 1: mother held up a mirror to show me what I
Speaker 1: looked like. Half of my head was shaved, my eyes
Speaker 1: were swollen the size of lemons, and I had two
Speaker 1: black eyes. There was a deep red scar on the
Speaker 1: right side of my head about three or four inches
Speaker 1: above my ear. Oh m G. Wow, that's a lot.
Speaker 1: Died at age seven from a car accident, not mention,
Speaker 1: and remember, of course, because at seven, you remember to
Speaker 1: have looked at herself had to be the most horrifying
Speaker 1: thing she had ever seen. Have you ever had an
Speaker 1: accident like that as a young kid. I was in
Speaker 1: a car accident, but I was much older. It was
Speaker 1: before seatbelts were really mandated by law. And I hit
Speaker 1: my head, and I remember you having a not on
Speaker 1: my forehead and just remembering, no matter what, I'm gonna
Speaker 1: put my seat butter on. The black eyes right a lot,
Speaker 1: But it was it wasn't all that. I told my spleen,
Speaker 1: That's all I remember. They were trying to figure out
Speaker 1: they were going to do surgery, but they didn't, so
Speaker 1: I still have my damaged spleen. Thank you, y'all need
Speaker 1: to get this book because this this is amazing. Get
Speaker 1: the book. It's a lot going on all right. Number three,
Speaker 1: Jamal wrote, in general, black women hate being described as angry.
Speaker 1: Ain't that the truth? If we're not in the mood
Speaker 1: to be accommodating, if we want room to be unapologetic
Speaker 1: and stand on our principles, then people view that as anger. Instead,
Speaker 1: we're really just exercising our right to avoid nonsense. Baby,
Speaker 1: she she hit that on the head. Can you share time, Tracy,
Speaker 1: maybe when the stereotype of an angry black woman came
Speaker 1: into play in your life? And how did you address it?
Speaker 1: Just one time? Right, just one right? So the knee's
Speaker 1: gonna have to be it's gonna have to be work
Speaker 1: again because some of the things that I would experience
Speaker 1: and then witness I'm an advocate for people are told
Speaker 1: you in the second grade, I was navigating through stuff
Speaker 1: on behalf of other people, so I would speak up,
Speaker 1: and when I spoke up, it was amazing how offended
Speaker 1: people were and or hurt. Well, Tracy, I felt attacked,
Speaker 1: Like how do you feel attacked? How? How? And so
Speaker 1: then if I'm asking how in that same voice, then well,
Speaker 1: now you know you need to watch your tone. And
Speaker 1: then if I put it in writing and I say
Speaker 1: something very clearly, then you know it's well, you can't
Speaker 1: hear tone and email, and so we need to be careful.
Speaker 1: It's like, Okay, I can't win for losing here, what
Speaker 1: do you want me to do? I can't win for losing. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so I that angry black woman thing is crazy. And
Speaker 1: that's why for the longest I would really really be
Speaker 1: careful about not shaking my neck because I talked with
Speaker 1: my hands, not doing a lot of gestures with my hands.
Speaker 1: And I was really careful about that because I did
Speaker 1: not want to come off and have people labeled me
Speaker 1: at work or anywhere as an angry black woman. It
Speaker 1: shouldn't be like that. I shouldn't be like that. I
Speaker 1: have that work story and then some I'm actually parenting example,
Speaker 1: because the parenting this one kind of hit a little different.
Speaker 1: You hate to say it, but they expect you to
Speaker 1: be angry at work, right even though you're not angry,
Speaker 1: you're passionate or they're playing in your face. But in
Speaker 1: the school setting, my son had a teacher not black
Speaker 1: and we're halfway through the year. So any parent who
Speaker 1: has some child who's had some challenges, you know, after
Speaker 1: Christmas break them teachers done. Okay, but that's not my problem.
Speaker 1: It's just your career. Anyway, she calls and it's your son,
Speaker 1: did X y Z you need to come up here
Speaker 1: right now. I don't know what's going on. This is ridiculous.
Speaker 1: This is not the first time, I mean going off
Speaker 1: and I said, are we on the same side, because
Speaker 1: I haven't done anything to you. I am here to
Speaker 1: work with you. And she was like, I can't believe
Speaker 1: you're speaking to me this way. I mean, I'm not
Speaker 1: sure what she heard, but even in my calmest of spaces,
Speaker 1: she could not hear what I was saying, that the
Speaker 1: differences we are here in the same We're on the
Speaker 1: same side, ma'am. I'm here for you. I definitely did
Speaker 1: not send him out the door to do whatever he
Speaker 1: did this day, something that clearly I can't even remember
Speaker 1: in this moment, but that was my point. We cannot
Speaker 1: continue to communicate like this, like we're going to be exhausted.
Speaker 1: And by then I was in therapy, in therapy with
Speaker 1: my son to where the therapist told us, you're gonna
Speaker 1: be exhausted if you're gonna try to keep up with
Speaker 1: this one my sons above and beyond for a while.
Speaker 1: Bless his heart. But the point is we have at
Speaker 1: some point operate as adults. We can't be in the
Speaker 1: emotional state that these children can take us into. And
Speaker 1: when you are choosing to ignore certain facets of a person,
Speaker 1: you will only see your assumptions. And she just assumed
Speaker 1: I was being angry. It's so amazing, ye. She called
Speaker 1: you to try to address it, and then it became
Speaker 1: an issue with you instead of the original issue. Number two,
Speaker 1: Jamal Hill was suspended for two weeks without pay, not
Speaker 1: even twenty four hours after she commented on a tweet
Speaker 1: surrounding Colin Kaepernick's silent protest where he took a knee
Speaker 1: during the national anthem. I know y'all remember this. She
Speaker 1: said that the only way the Cowboys would take disgruntled
Speaker 1: fans seriously is that the fans stage of boycott against
Speaker 1: their advertisers. When this first happened, I was proud. I
Speaker 1: was proud of him. I was proud of him, and
Speaker 1: all of that made me love Jamale. I liked her.
Speaker 1: I had respect for her as a journalist. I thought
Speaker 1: she was authentic, she represented black women so wonderfully. But
Speaker 1: when she stood on the hill and saying I agree
Speaker 1: and yes, yes, yes, and yes, I was right there
Speaker 1: with her, What did you think? I'm being honest? This
Speaker 1: is full transparency. I didn't have any thoughts at first.
Speaker 1: That's why I actually appreciate people like Jamal, because when
Speaker 1: I do choose to pay attention and something does catch
Speaker 1: my attention, I want to be super informed as much
Speaker 1: as I can. And I haven't been following along, I
Speaker 1: haven't seen it in real time. I probably completely missed it.
Speaker 1: So I definitely appreciated her stance in her perspective as
Speaker 1: a black woman and what we go through, what we're
Speaker 1: actually paying attention to. Some people were paying attention to
Speaker 1: the actual sport and maybe the pay and and I
Speaker 1: was paying attention to that social injustice piece, like Okay,
Speaker 1: what does he say and what does he want? And
Speaker 1: and I have Jamale not actually be supported, which goes
Speaker 1: into our last moment that was even more so hurtful.
Speaker 1: So let's talk about this. The number one moment that
Speaker 1: the table did not talk about. Jamale suspension still wasn't
Speaker 1: the tipping point for her to eventually decide to leave
Speaker 1: ESPN after a tweet from Trump where he said, with
Speaker 1: Jamale Hill at the mic, it is no wonder ESPN
Speaker 1: ratings have tanked, in fact tanked so badly it is
Speaker 1: the talk of the industry. Jamal said, I didn't care
Speaker 1: what Trump thought of me, already thought so little of him.
Speaker 1: Trump didn't hurt me, but ESPN's lack of response did.
Speaker 1: A government official had come after one of its employees,
Speaker 1: and it did nothing. It was then that I realized
Speaker 1: my time at ESPN had come to an end, and
Speaker 1: I can fully fully relate, all right. So I had
Speaker 1: already been feeling a lack of like passion in my
Speaker 1: government career before I left, and as a training analyst.
Speaker 1: Some of you guys know this clearly, I like to talk.
Speaker 1: But a situation happened right before I decided to leave.
Speaker 1: I had actually been promoted to the highest level of
Speaker 1: the government that I wanted to be in. I was
Speaker 1: a public affairs specialist, and even after the promotion, they
Speaker 1: decided to number one give the job to someone else
Speaker 1: in front of my face. All right, had been on
Speaker 1: a certain certain detail. They decided we're going to give
Speaker 1: this to someone else, And when I wanted to address
Speaker 1: another situation that came up, they said, we're not sure
Speaker 1: what you should do. Like, I didn't feel supported. And
Speaker 1: in those space, says, even after addressing my manager directly,
Speaker 1: after talking to certain other managers, after talking across the coworkers,
Speaker 1: certain things happen and you just realize I'm not supported here.
Speaker 1: This must be the end of my journey, specifically the
Speaker 1: position situation. There was a position situation. And I don't
Speaker 1: think I've ever told anybody this part of the story.
Speaker 1: But my manager at the time had previously apologized, and
Speaker 1: to say, about five years prior before she became my
Speaker 1: manager apologize for throwing me under the bus because she
Speaker 1: knew that other people were doing it, so she thought
Speaker 1: she should too. She recognized that my work ethic was
Speaker 1: actually better, and she shouldn't have followed the other people
Speaker 1: who tried to throw me under the bus, because of
Speaker 1: course they then threw her under the bus. So after
Speaker 1: she apologized, like again, and this is the hard place
Speaker 1: of being in the only black person in spaces. There's
Speaker 1: no place for me to go in HR and say hey,
Speaker 1: this coworker came and told me this private thing because
Speaker 1: they were actually bullying me to live admitted to bullieve
Speaker 1: me and oh my gosh that there's no place for
Speaker 1: those things. But was it awful because I'm actually living
Speaker 1: in my dream? I know what I mean. You go
Speaker 1: back to the adversity helped you get to appreciate, all right,
Speaker 1: And for Jamale Hill to be attacked by the President
Speaker 1: of the United States as an individual and an American,
Speaker 1: it was absolutely ridiculous. Okay, that part, there's there's just
Speaker 1: a part. We can have a whole another episode on that.
Speaker 1: But because instead what we're gonna do is realized that
Speaker 1: there are so many more moments we could discuss. But
Speaker 1: but it is time car for us to bid our
Speaker 1: wonderful listeners do. It's time to close the show and
Speaker 1: thank you all so much for supporting though in the meantime,
Speaker 1: always love love listening to our stories in our life.
Speaker 1: Keep it coming right. Thank you so much for listening.
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for sitting in at this virtual
Speaker 1: red table. We love you, We love you. We want
Speaker 1: to know how you're feeling about this new season a
Speaker 1: red table talk to We're open to talk about any
Speaker 1: and everything with you all, so please send in your
Speaker 1: questions at Let's Red Table That at red table talk
Speaker 1: dot com or leave us a voicemail at speak pipe
Speaker 1: dot com slash Let's red Table That. Yes, thank you
Speaker 1: so much for listening, and make sure you subscribe on
Speaker 1: I Heart Radio app and please rate this podcast on
Speaker 1: Apple Podcast. We'll be back next week for another episode
Speaker 1: of Let's Red Table That Special. Thanks to executive producers
Speaker 1: Jada Pinkett Smith, Valan Jethro and Ellen Racketton. Thank you
Speaker 1: to our producer Kyla Canau and our associate producer your
Speaker 1: Landa Chow. And a big thanks to our sound engineer,
Speaker 1: Stephanie Aguilar. Let's Table. Let's do a little bit, kay,