1 00:00:02,600 --> 00:00:07,080 Speaker 1: Now from our nation's capital. This is Bloomberg Sound on. 2 00:00:08,200 --> 00:00:11,559 Speaker 1: We are actually going to do the largest infrastructure bill 3 00:00:11,720 --> 00:00:16,360 Speaker 1: ever in America's history. The more extraordinary, the extraordinary measures again, 4 00:00:16,680 --> 00:00:20,160 Speaker 1: the harder it is to put pressure on Congress. Bloomberg 5 00:00:20,360 --> 00:00:24,960 Speaker 1: sound on Politics, Policy and Perspective from DC's top name. So, 6 00:00:25,120 --> 00:00:29,400 Speaker 1: why wouldn't you try a primary against President Biden who 7 00:00:29,440 --> 00:00:31,400 Speaker 1: were to decide to run again? Do you guys know 8 00:00:31,480 --> 00:00:33,960 Speaker 1: you speak to a pretty audience? The death ceiling is 9 00:00:33,960 --> 00:00:38,839 Speaker 1: a completely manufactured Carson Bloomberg Sound on with Joe Matthew 10 00:00:39,200 --> 00:00:43,159 Speaker 1: on Bloomberg Radio. Are we about to do this all 11 00:00:43,200 --> 00:00:46,159 Speaker 1: over again? Yes, we are about to do this all 12 00:00:46,200 --> 00:00:49,680 Speaker 1: over again. Democrats marching to a vote on the president's 13 00:00:49,680 --> 00:00:52,760 Speaker 1: social spending plan, even though it remains unclear on this 14 00:00:52,800 --> 00:00:56,720 Speaker 1: Friday if Speaker Nancy Pelosi has the votes, and Democratic 15 00:00:56,800 --> 00:00:59,000 Speaker 1: leaders are not even talking at least not openly about 16 00:00:59,040 --> 00:01:02,160 Speaker 1: attaching the debts link to it. With a looming deadline 17 00:01:02,160 --> 00:01:06,080 Speaker 1: December three, in inflation heating up? Is this starting to 18 00:01:06,200 --> 00:01:08,920 Speaker 1: sound familiar? We'll talk about it all ahead with Congressman 19 00:01:09,000 --> 00:01:12,200 Speaker 1: John Sarban's Democrat from Maryland, who was with the President 20 00:01:12,280 --> 00:01:15,000 Speaker 1: this week at the Port of Baltimore, and I suspect 21 00:01:15,080 --> 00:01:17,080 Speaker 1: he will have something to say as well about news 22 00:01:17,080 --> 00:01:21,200 Speaker 1: Steve Bannon indicted for contempt of Congress news today from 23 00:01:21,200 --> 00:01:23,920 Speaker 1: the Department of Justice. That will hear more about. And 24 00:01:23,959 --> 00:01:26,800 Speaker 1: as President Biden prepares for a critical meeting on Monday 25 00:01:26,840 --> 00:01:29,720 Speaker 1: with China's president, she we will talk about the stakes 26 00:01:29,760 --> 00:01:33,960 Speaker 1: and what might come from this virtual summit with legendary 27 00:01:33,959 --> 00:01:37,200 Speaker 1: diplomat Thomas Pickering, former US Ambassador to the u N 28 00:01:37,240 --> 00:01:40,120 Speaker 1: We've got the original panel for you today, Bloomberg Politics 29 00:01:40,160 --> 00:01:43,360 Speaker 1: contributors Jeanie Schanzano and Rick Davis or with us for 30 00:01:43,360 --> 00:01:46,319 Speaker 1: the hour. So this Friday is suddenly looking up. President 31 00:01:46,360 --> 00:01:49,720 Speaker 1: Biden signs the infrastructure bill Monday. He talked about it 32 00:01:49,800 --> 00:01:52,760 Speaker 1: today in a meeting with his cabinet. This happened a 33 00:01:52,760 --> 00:01:54,640 Speaker 1: short time ago, and they did allow press in the 34 00:01:54,720 --> 00:01:56,840 Speaker 1: room for a portion of it. Because if we do 35 00:01:56,880 --> 00:01:59,800 Speaker 1: it right, we know what it will mean. We know 36 00:02:00,000 --> 00:02:02,880 Speaker 1: what it will mean. It will create millions of new jobs, 37 00:02:02,920 --> 00:02:07,280 Speaker 1: will grow the economy, and UH, we'll win the world 38 00:02:07,320 --> 00:02:11,639 Speaker 1: economic competition. UH that we're engaged in the second quarter 39 00:02:11,639 --> 00:02:14,480 Speaker 1: of the twenty one century with China and many other 40 00:02:14,520 --> 00:02:18,600 Speaker 1: countries around the world, and we're gonna, oh, we'll see ease, 41 00:02:18,639 --> 00:02:23,160 Speaker 1: and I say yes, ease, lower inflationary pressures on our economy. 42 00:02:23,480 --> 00:02:26,760 Speaker 1: It's hitting all the greatest hits their inflation, China, all 43 00:02:26,800 --> 00:02:31,360 Speaker 1: with regard to the infrastructure bill, and that's gonna be 44 00:02:31,400 --> 00:02:34,120 Speaker 1: a big ceremony on Monday. It's, of course, the rest 45 00:02:34,160 --> 00:02:36,960 Speaker 1: of his plan though, that will make news. The reconciliation 46 00:02:36,960 --> 00:02:38,920 Speaker 1: bill we've been talking about for months could actually get 47 00:02:38,919 --> 00:02:41,920 Speaker 1: a vote in the House. That's the deal the Speaker 48 00:02:41,960 --> 00:02:44,840 Speaker 1: made with progressives, right, But will it really happen? And 49 00:02:44,840 --> 00:02:48,960 Speaker 1: that's where we start with Congressman John Sarbanes, Democrat from Maryland. Congressman, 50 00:02:49,040 --> 00:02:52,079 Speaker 1: welcome back to Bloomberg Radio. Thanks very much, it's good 51 00:02:52,120 --> 00:02:54,079 Speaker 1: to be here. Well, next week is shaping up to 52 00:02:54,120 --> 00:02:56,960 Speaker 1: be another wild one, it seems for House Democrats like yourself. 53 00:02:57,000 --> 00:03:01,680 Speaker 1: Speaker Pelosi has promised progressives the president's social spending bill 54 00:03:02,080 --> 00:03:04,400 Speaker 1: will let last get a vote. Do you see that happening. 55 00:03:05,840 --> 00:03:07,799 Speaker 1: I'm very hopeful that it will. I mean, I think 56 00:03:07,800 --> 00:03:11,520 Speaker 1: obviously the predicate has been set for that. We got 57 00:03:11,560 --> 00:03:15,720 Speaker 1: the infrastructure bill passed be where we left town, and 58 00:03:15,760 --> 00:03:19,240 Speaker 1: I think that's heat up, putting the Build Back Better 59 00:03:19,320 --> 00:03:22,800 Speaker 1: Bill right on the front burner for when we return. 60 00:03:22,919 --> 00:03:25,880 Speaker 1: I know that, I know that the public is anxious 61 00:03:25,960 --> 00:03:30,960 Speaker 1: to to see these important investments come to be, and 62 00:03:31,120 --> 00:03:34,480 Speaker 1: we're certainly very focused on it as members of Congress, 63 00:03:34,520 --> 00:03:38,480 Speaker 1: getting this over the finish line, getting those support assistants 64 00:03:38,560 --> 00:03:41,960 Speaker 1: resources out the door. So I think it'll be absolutely 65 00:03:42,000 --> 00:03:44,400 Speaker 1: the focus in the coming week, no question. Well, boy, 66 00:03:44,440 --> 00:03:47,360 Speaker 1: after the last couple of months, it would be quite 67 00:03:47,360 --> 00:03:49,280 Speaker 1: a moment if this actually came to the floor and 68 00:03:49,320 --> 00:03:51,320 Speaker 1: got a vote. When do you expect to have chance 69 00:03:51,400 --> 00:03:54,720 Speaker 1: to read the bill? Well, we've been reading the bill 70 00:03:55,640 --> 00:04:00,800 Speaker 1: continuously for for months and certainly weeks. Obviously it's it's 71 00:04:00,880 --> 00:04:06,040 Speaker 1: changed it's design and composition a bit, but that's mostly 72 00:04:06,120 --> 00:04:10,600 Speaker 1: been the result of things that were included being streamlined. 73 00:04:10,720 --> 00:04:13,200 Speaker 1: So it's not like we have to get our head 74 00:04:13,240 --> 00:04:16,560 Speaker 1: around a lot of new things. It's just looking at 75 00:04:16,560 --> 00:04:20,159 Speaker 1: the package as it currently exists, a little bit of 76 00:04:20,160 --> 00:04:22,640 Speaker 1: a moving target, but I would say the key, the 77 00:04:22,720 --> 00:04:25,360 Speaker 1: key elements are very much in focus, and I think 78 00:04:26,240 --> 00:04:30,160 Speaker 1: certainly we're very comfortable with those key elements. You know, 79 00:04:30,320 --> 00:04:34,039 Speaker 1: access to childcare, extending the child tax credit, which is 80 00:04:34,080 --> 00:04:39,599 Speaker 1: really a tax cut for families with children, investing in preschool, 81 00:04:39,640 --> 00:04:42,960 Speaker 1: which is very very important, family and medical leave, other 82 00:04:43,040 --> 00:04:46,400 Speaker 1: things that have gotten I think deserved attention because they 83 00:04:46,440 --> 00:04:48,880 Speaker 1: really lift up families across the country. So I think 84 00:04:48,880 --> 00:04:52,480 Speaker 1: we know essentially what's in there. The scope of it 85 00:04:52,520 --> 00:04:56,240 Speaker 1: is subject to some additional negotiation perhaps, but again, I 86 00:04:56,320 --> 00:04:58,280 Speaker 1: think we want to get this onto the floor soon. 87 00:04:58,640 --> 00:05:00,279 Speaker 1: When will the bill be scored? I know that's a 88 00:05:00,279 --> 00:05:02,200 Speaker 1: big issue for some moderates to say they're not going 89 00:05:02,240 --> 00:05:04,040 Speaker 1: to touch this until what they hear from the CBO 90 00:05:04,200 --> 00:05:05,839 Speaker 1: is is that something that you need to see first. 91 00:05:07,120 --> 00:05:11,600 Speaker 1: I'm pretty comfortable based on sort of the initial projections 92 00:05:11,640 --> 00:05:13,640 Speaker 1: around this. You know, the White House I think has 93 00:05:13,640 --> 00:05:17,320 Speaker 1: been very transparent in computing kind of the pay for 94 00:05:17,800 --> 00:05:21,880 Speaker 1: dimension of build back better, So I trust what they 95 00:05:22,120 --> 00:05:25,479 Speaker 1: provided to us. I think it will be covered. There's 96 00:05:25,520 --> 00:05:29,680 Speaker 1: even some potential for it to be a deficit reducer 97 00:05:30,240 --> 00:05:32,880 Speaker 1: when you look at what will be brought in in 98 00:05:33,000 --> 00:05:36,279 Speaker 1: terms of tax revenue and savings savings for example, through 99 00:05:36,880 --> 00:05:41,880 Speaker 1: allowing Medicare to negotiate on drug pricing. So I'm in 100 00:05:41,920 --> 00:05:44,920 Speaker 1: a good place. I think most in our caucus are 101 00:05:44,960 --> 00:05:47,120 Speaker 1: in a good place. That's been an area where some 102 00:05:47,200 --> 00:05:50,320 Speaker 1: of the moderates wanted to get additional assurances. I think 103 00:05:50,360 --> 00:05:52,320 Speaker 1: that's coming to them. I think it will come to 104 00:05:52,440 --> 00:05:55,719 Speaker 1: them in a way that can get them the place 105 00:05:55,839 --> 00:05:59,240 Speaker 1: of support for the bill. So I'm bullish on its 106 00:05:59,320 --> 00:06:03,039 Speaker 1: chances and happening soon. Congress and President Biden signs the 107 00:06:03,080 --> 00:06:06,160 Speaker 1: infrastructure Bill on Monday. I know you were with him 108 00:06:06,200 --> 00:06:09,080 Speaker 1: this week at the Port of Baltimore, and I understand, 109 00:06:09,160 --> 00:06:10,479 Speaker 1: or as we learned that day, it is one of 110 00:06:10,480 --> 00:06:12,359 Speaker 1: the more capable ports on the East Coast. What do 111 00:06:12,400 --> 00:06:13,960 Speaker 1: you need for the port that you'll get from the 112 00:06:13,960 --> 00:06:17,799 Speaker 1: Infrastructure Bill and how long you have to wait for it? Well, 113 00:06:17,839 --> 00:06:20,280 Speaker 1: we are very proud of the Port of Baltimore. I mean, 114 00:06:20,320 --> 00:06:22,760 Speaker 1: there's no question it is, as I was saying the 115 00:06:22,800 --> 00:06:26,160 Speaker 1: other day to those that were gathered for that that 116 00:06:26,600 --> 00:06:29,479 Speaker 1: visit from the President, and it's really the beating heart 117 00:06:29,760 --> 00:06:33,360 Speaker 1: of the Maryland region in terms of our economy. So 118 00:06:33,480 --> 00:06:36,440 Speaker 1: the kinds of investments that we see there are really 119 00:06:36,440 --> 00:06:40,239 Speaker 1: really important. One of those is to make sure that 120 00:06:40,920 --> 00:06:46,360 Speaker 1: the port has the capacity and flexibility and you know, maneuverability, 121 00:06:46,400 --> 00:06:47,960 Speaker 1: I guess is the best way to put it. To 122 00:06:48,040 --> 00:06:52,520 Speaker 1: deal with some of these supply chain bottlenecks that we've seen, 123 00:06:53,080 --> 00:06:57,560 Speaker 1: so creating more capacity there to handle uh these containers. 124 00:06:57,960 --> 00:07:01,880 Speaker 1: Another is to invest in the double stacking, which is 125 00:07:01,920 --> 00:07:04,640 Speaker 1: where you put two containers on top of each other 126 00:07:04,760 --> 00:07:07,800 Speaker 1: and able to get that on trains and through what 127 00:07:08,000 --> 00:07:10,920 Speaker 1: is now a very aging tunnel that doesn't allow for 128 00:07:10,960 --> 00:07:14,360 Speaker 1: that in the Baltimore area. The Howard Street Tunnel investment 129 00:07:14,400 --> 00:07:18,680 Speaker 1: dollars are coming from the federal government two upgrade the 130 00:07:18,720 --> 00:07:22,280 Speaker 1: tunnel so it can handle those double stack containers, and 131 00:07:22,320 --> 00:07:26,760 Speaker 1: then ongoing efforts to keep the the Port of Baltimore 132 00:07:26,840 --> 00:07:32,120 Speaker 1: dredge them the ways that the ships come in in 133 00:07:32,240 --> 00:07:37,440 Speaker 1: order to allow for those those very deep um cargo 134 00:07:37,480 --> 00:07:40,480 Speaker 1: ships that are coming in. That's all part and parcel 135 00:07:40,520 --> 00:07:43,560 Speaker 1: what it takes to maintain a port. We've done a 136 00:07:43,600 --> 00:07:47,120 Speaker 1: lot of investments over the last few years, but you 137 00:07:47,200 --> 00:07:51,320 Speaker 1: can't continue to maintain it at high level without the 138 00:07:51,400 --> 00:07:54,000 Speaker 1: sort of support that comes from the federal level. So 139 00:07:54,040 --> 00:07:57,000 Speaker 1: we're very excited about what that means in the near 140 00:07:57,200 --> 00:08:00,240 Speaker 1: term for the Port of Baltimore, but also what it 141 00:08:00,240 --> 00:08:03,360 Speaker 1: means for the competitiveness and the capacity of the port 142 00:08:04,120 --> 00:08:06,120 Speaker 1: over the long term. When you say near term. Does 143 00:08:06,160 --> 00:08:09,440 Speaker 1: that mean money arrives this this coming year, by the 144 00:08:09,520 --> 00:08:13,840 Speaker 1: end of two what's the timeline? Oh, I think absolutely 145 00:08:13,880 --> 00:08:18,680 Speaker 1: you're gonna see dollars flowing out through the this infrastructure bill, 146 00:08:18,760 --> 00:08:21,720 Speaker 1: not just the ports in the near term and in 147 00:08:21,840 --> 00:08:25,080 Speaker 1: that time frame that you just mentioned, but to other projects, 148 00:08:25,080 --> 00:08:28,800 Speaker 1: you know, the upgrading of of roads and bridges, tunnel 149 00:08:28,960 --> 00:08:34,800 Speaker 1: construction as I just indicated, broadband internet, um, sort of 150 00:08:34,840 --> 00:08:37,680 Speaker 1: pushing that out across the country. Sure, I know there's 151 00:08:37,679 --> 00:08:40,760 Speaker 1: a lot more where that. Yeah, public chance, it is 152 00:08:40,840 --> 00:08:43,400 Speaker 1: really important priority that we have to focus on. You 153 00:08:43,440 --> 00:08:48,120 Speaker 1: can't do that without federal investment. And then upgrading and 154 00:08:48,200 --> 00:08:52,600 Speaker 1: improving our water infrastructure's really really important. We spent a 155 00:08:52,600 --> 00:08:55,440 Speaker 1: lot of time digging through the components of this bill. 156 00:08:55,480 --> 00:08:57,559 Speaker 1: I'll have you know, and I do Congressman want to 157 00:08:57,559 --> 00:08:59,760 Speaker 1: ask you about the debt ceiling. December three is sneaking 158 00:08:59,800 --> 00:09:02,280 Speaker 1: up on us. And after the last few go rounds 159 00:09:02,280 --> 00:09:04,840 Speaker 1: with Senator McConnell, wouldn't it be nice to have it 160 00:09:04,880 --> 00:09:06,760 Speaker 1: over with? Do you do you feel like Democrats just 161 00:09:06,840 --> 00:09:10,520 Speaker 1: get it done now through reconciliation and move on. Well, 162 00:09:10,640 --> 00:09:13,760 Speaker 1: it's it's tricky to do it through reconciliation. I mean, 163 00:09:13,800 --> 00:09:16,600 Speaker 1: there's different ways to skin the cat when it comes 164 00:09:16,640 --> 00:09:19,719 Speaker 1: to dealing with the debt, the debt limit. I think 165 00:09:19,760 --> 00:09:22,199 Speaker 1: all of those are being looked at. It would be 166 00:09:22,280 --> 00:09:26,000 Speaker 1: nice if the Republicans would join us in protecting and 167 00:09:26,000 --> 00:09:28,880 Speaker 1: preserving the full faith and credit of the United States. 168 00:09:29,200 --> 00:09:30,760 Speaker 1: I'm sure you feel that way, but just for the 169 00:09:30,800 --> 00:09:32,640 Speaker 1: sake of the markets in your own peace of mind, 170 00:09:32,679 --> 00:09:34,679 Speaker 1: wouldn't be nice to put this thing away for a while, 171 00:09:36,000 --> 00:09:38,280 Speaker 1: for sure, And I think we're gonna We're gonna find 172 00:09:38,559 --> 00:09:43,040 Speaker 1: ways of accomplishing that. Those conversations are happening on both 173 00:09:43,040 --> 00:09:46,000 Speaker 1: sides of the capital. We obviously don't want to push 174 00:09:46,040 --> 00:09:48,000 Speaker 1: things right up to the edge because, as you say, 175 00:09:48,040 --> 00:09:50,600 Speaker 1: that is very destabilizing, and we've been there at the 176 00:09:50,640 --> 00:09:53,280 Speaker 1: markets and the ripple effect that can flow out in 177 00:09:53,320 --> 00:09:56,200 Speaker 1: many many directions, as you know, so we want to 178 00:09:56,240 --> 00:09:58,079 Speaker 1: calm the waters there. I think there'll be a lot 179 00:09:58,080 --> 00:10:01,319 Speaker 1: of focus on that obviously has to in the coming 180 00:10:01,400 --> 00:10:05,760 Speaker 1: days because at December three deadline is wooming. Congressman Sarbin's 181 00:10:05,760 --> 00:10:07,960 Speaker 1: I want to ask you about a breaking story this afternoon. 182 00:10:08,000 --> 00:10:10,280 Speaker 1: I suspect you've heard that this was coming with Steve 183 00:10:10,320 --> 00:10:13,600 Speaker 1: Bannon has been indicted by a federal grand jury two 184 00:10:13,640 --> 00:10:16,880 Speaker 1: counts of contempt of Congress after he failed to comply 185 00:10:16,960 --> 00:10:20,640 Speaker 1: with the subpoena from the January six House Select Committee. 186 00:10:21,120 --> 00:10:25,160 Speaker 1: Your father, of course, famously introduced articles of impeachment against 187 00:10:25,280 --> 00:10:27,520 Speaker 1: Richard Nixon. Do you think that Steve Bannon should go 188 00:10:27,600 --> 00:10:31,720 Speaker 1: to jail? Well, there obviously have to be consequences for 189 00:10:31,800 --> 00:10:34,760 Speaker 1: flouting the law and thumbing your nose in this case 190 00:10:35,040 --> 00:10:39,960 Speaker 1: at Congress, and it's it's well founded authority to seek 191 00:10:40,000 --> 00:10:44,720 Speaker 1: information and testimony. So the fact that he outright ignored 192 00:10:44,800 --> 00:10:48,760 Speaker 1: that and and dismissed it um I think has earned this, 193 00:10:49,000 --> 00:10:52,680 Speaker 1: earned him this indictment. And and you know, the law 194 00:10:52,679 --> 00:10:57,640 Speaker 1: will prosecute with the law will prosecute here. But he's 195 00:10:57,679 --> 00:11:00,800 Speaker 1: certainly a candidate for that kind of concert points. And 196 00:11:00,800 --> 00:11:03,080 Speaker 1: we have to get to the bottom of what happened there. 197 00:11:03,120 --> 00:11:06,480 Speaker 1: And I think their request for information from Bannon is 198 00:11:06,960 --> 00:11:11,479 Speaker 1: reflects that hopefully what's happened now in terms of consequence 199 00:11:11,559 --> 00:11:14,800 Speaker 1: for him, will make clear to others that need to 200 00:11:14,800 --> 00:11:17,760 Speaker 1: cooperate that that they should definitely do that. So we're 201 00:11:17,760 --> 00:11:19,360 Speaker 1: going to keep pushing there. We want to get to 202 00:11:19,400 --> 00:11:21,240 Speaker 1: the bottom of this. We want to do it for 203 00:11:21,280 --> 00:11:24,040 Speaker 1: the for the American public and for their benefit. Should 204 00:11:24,040 --> 00:11:26,520 Speaker 1: Steve Bannon go to jail if that's what, If that's 205 00:11:26,520 --> 00:11:29,720 Speaker 1: what the punishment is, you're comfortable with that, Oh? Absolutely yeah. 206 00:11:29,720 --> 00:11:31,840 Speaker 1: I mean he has to face the music here, but 207 00:11:31,920 --> 00:11:35,480 Speaker 1: for his conduct, no question. If that's where the prosecution leaves, 208 00:11:35,640 --> 00:11:39,120 Speaker 1: and I think that's that's what's appropriate. Congressman John Sarban's 209 00:11:39,160 --> 00:11:44,120 Speaker 1: Democrat from Maryland, in fact, the third congressional district, including 210 00:11:44,160 --> 00:11:46,440 Speaker 1: the gorgeous capital city of Annapolis. We thank you for 211 00:11:46,480 --> 00:11:49,160 Speaker 1: being with us today on Bluebird. Thanks very much. Take care. 212 00:11:49,760 --> 00:11:52,120 Speaker 1: We'll be talking more about the Steve Bannon story is 213 00:11:52,160 --> 00:11:55,040 Speaker 1: we learn more. The indictment comes as the Special Committee 214 00:11:55,760 --> 00:11:58,880 Speaker 1: accelerates efforts to obtain documents and testimony. Like I mentioned, 215 00:11:58,880 --> 00:12:01,640 Speaker 1: there could be collateral damage for some of the other 216 00:12:01,960 --> 00:12:05,360 Speaker 1: former Trump aids who have been called and refused to testify, 217 00:12:05,440 --> 00:12:08,440 Speaker 1: refused to provide documents coming up. Will get into it 218 00:12:08,480 --> 00:12:11,920 Speaker 1: with the panel on this Friday. The original Bloomberg Politics 219 00:12:11,960 --> 00:12:14,760 Speaker 1: contributors Jeanie Chanzano and Rick Davis are with us for 220 00:12:14,800 --> 00:12:17,480 Speaker 1: the hour. We'll see how they feel about things. Jackie 221 00:12:17,480 --> 00:12:19,679 Speaker 1: markets and traffic next Tuesday, right where you are and 222 00:12:19,760 --> 00:12:32,719 Speaker 1: sound on. I'm Joe Matthew. This is Bloomberg. This is Bloomberg. 223 00:12:32,880 --> 00:12:38,959 Speaker 1: So on with Joe Matthew on Bloomberg Radio headline on 224 00:12:39,000 --> 00:12:43,200 Speaker 1: the terminal, Judge ends conservator ship that has controlled Britney Spears, 225 00:12:43,240 --> 00:12:46,319 Speaker 1: life and money since two thousand and eight. Talk about 226 00:12:46,320 --> 00:12:50,120 Speaker 1: a breaker. It's gonna be a party this weekend, but 227 00:12:50,280 --> 00:12:52,720 Speaker 1: that the last is not the story we're talking about 228 00:12:53,240 --> 00:12:58,000 Speaker 1: with the panel, Steve Bannon breaking news as well. What 229 00:12:58,040 --> 00:13:01,439 Speaker 1: will Attorney General Merrick Garland do now? What doll it 230 00:13:01,520 --> 00:13:03,760 Speaker 1: mean for the other Trump aids who have shunned the committee. 231 00:13:04,600 --> 00:13:07,760 Speaker 1: We assemble the panel this Friday with Bloomberg Politics contributors 232 00:13:07,800 --> 00:13:11,040 Speaker 1: Jeanie Schanzano and Rick Davis. Rick, Welcome back. Does Steve 233 00:13:11,080 --> 00:13:14,160 Speaker 1: Bannon go to jail here? Well, he certainly stands a 234 00:13:14,240 --> 00:13:16,920 Speaker 1: chance of going to jail. I mean, this is the 235 00:13:16,920 --> 00:13:22,000 Speaker 1: first real step to his future incarceration. Um, he hasn't 236 00:13:22,000 --> 00:13:24,280 Speaker 1: really got a defense other than saying he's waiting for 237 00:13:24,320 --> 00:13:26,839 Speaker 1: Donald Trump to tell him what to do. And uh, 238 00:13:27,000 --> 00:13:29,640 Speaker 1: I think if you're waiting for Donald Trump or you're 239 00:13:29,679 --> 00:13:33,120 Speaker 1: trying to avoid prosecution I'd listen to Congress and not 240 00:13:33,160 --> 00:13:36,320 Speaker 1: Donald Trump, but that's not been his history. And so 241 00:13:36,960 --> 00:13:39,280 Speaker 1: you know, does he want to spend between thirty days 242 00:13:39,280 --> 00:13:42,400 Speaker 1: and a year in jail defying a subpoena? I think 243 00:13:42,760 --> 00:13:46,960 Speaker 1: what happens to Trump's lawsuit on trying exert executive privilege 244 00:13:47,120 --> 00:13:50,040 Speaker 1: could have a bearing on his level of cooperation coming forward. 245 00:13:50,240 --> 00:13:52,800 Speaker 1: How about Mark Meadows? Genie reports now he too could 246 00:13:52,800 --> 00:13:55,360 Speaker 1: be held in contempt. He's surprised he's not working with 247 00:13:55,400 --> 00:13:57,160 Speaker 1: the committee. A lot of people thought that he would 248 00:13:57,160 --> 00:14:00,880 Speaker 1: be providing information by now. Well, if this had happened earlier, 249 00:14:01,000 --> 00:14:04,320 Speaker 1: maybe things would have he would have handled things differently today. 250 00:14:04,640 --> 00:14:07,360 Speaker 1: You know, the the the whole idea of this law, 251 00:14:07,840 --> 00:14:12,440 Speaker 1: that is, that is deterrence precisely to people like Mark Meadows, who, 252 00:14:12,480 --> 00:14:15,280 Speaker 1: by the way, stands on not solid ground certainly, but 253 00:14:15,360 --> 00:14:17,920 Speaker 1: solid or if that's a word I could use ground. 254 00:14:18,320 --> 00:14:22,560 Speaker 1: Then then Steve Bannon in claiming some kind of executive privilege. Um, 255 00:14:22,760 --> 00:14:25,640 Speaker 1: so you know this law is meant to deter Steve 256 00:14:25,680 --> 00:14:29,080 Speaker 1: Bennon now facing for each count minimum one month in jail, 257 00:14:29,160 --> 00:14:33,400 Speaker 1: maximum one year. But of course that's precisely what Steve 258 00:14:33,480 --> 00:14:37,000 Speaker 1: Bannon wanted. In fact, he's probably upset that Britney Spears 259 00:14:37,040 --> 00:14:40,800 Speaker 1: has stolen his thunder today. But somebody like Mark Meadows, 260 00:14:40,840 --> 00:14:43,200 Speaker 1: this is going to be a very very different calculation, 261 00:14:43,680 --> 00:14:47,280 Speaker 1: and I think it's critically important. Congress's role in oversight 262 00:14:47,320 --> 00:14:50,440 Speaker 1: has lack teeth for for some time. This is the 263 00:14:50,520 --> 00:14:53,560 Speaker 1: d o J saying, when they issue as a peanut, 264 00:14:53,720 --> 00:14:55,760 Speaker 1: you go before them. And by the way, there was 265 00:14:55,800 --> 00:14:58,080 Speaker 1: a very easy way for Steve Bannon to do this, 266 00:14:58,400 --> 00:15:01,800 Speaker 1: go before them caught on. The Democrats don't say a lot, 267 00:15:02,000 --> 00:15:04,520 Speaker 1: you know, claim you know your Fifth Amendment right against 268 00:15:04,520 --> 00:15:07,200 Speaker 1: self incrimination, a lot of things, but to simply not 269 00:15:07,320 --> 00:15:10,160 Speaker 1: show up as they have done is quite simply unacceptable. 270 00:15:10,320 --> 00:15:12,960 Speaker 1: So it's an important move on department. On the department's 271 00:15:13,080 --> 00:15:16,040 Speaker 1: uh hap behalf of Congress. I could see a Steve 272 00:15:16,080 --> 00:15:21,400 Speaker 1: Bannon Brittney Spears reality show that would burn up cable TV. 273 00:15:22,120 --> 00:15:24,280 Speaker 1: The d o J says each count of contempt of 274 00:15:24,280 --> 00:15:27,760 Speaker 1: Congress carries a minimum work of thirty days a maximum 275 00:15:27,800 --> 00:15:29,520 Speaker 1: of one year in jail, as well as a fine 276 00:15:29,520 --> 00:15:31,960 Speaker 1: of a hundred dollars to a thousand dollars. There's a 277 00:15:32,000 --> 00:15:35,160 Speaker 1: big difference between thirty days in a year in jail. 278 00:15:35,200 --> 00:15:36,880 Speaker 1: How much of a point do you think Merrick Garland 279 00:15:36,880 --> 00:15:39,920 Speaker 1: will want to make, you know, I think that Garland 280 00:15:39,920 --> 00:15:42,120 Speaker 1: has already made his point right. It was a big 281 00:15:42,160 --> 00:15:44,840 Speaker 1: issue for whether or not the Justice Apartment and what 282 00:15:44,840 --> 00:15:47,200 Speaker 1: what they were going to do in response to the 283 00:15:47,240 --> 00:15:54,160 Speaker 1: congressional um um demands for action here and and I 284 00:15:54,200 --> 00:15:57,240 Speaker 1: think they're making this point to a broader point. Not 285 00:15:57,320 --> 00:16:02,600 Speaker 1: only are they prosecuting with these indictments the violations of 286 00:16:03,080 --> 00:16:07,240 Speaker 1: uh Bannon, but they're also trying to make a point 287 00:16:07,320 --> 00:16:11,160 Speaker 1: that that that they are reforming the Justice Department and 288 00:16:11,200 --> 00:16:13,840 Speaker 1: taking it out of the political fray. I'm not sure 289 00:16:13,920 --> 00:16:17,120 Speaker 1: that's as easy as sell when they're indicting a member 290 00:16:17,160 --> 00:16:20,520 Speaker 1: of the opposite party. But but I do think all 291 00:16:20,560 --> 00:16:25,920 Speaker 1: of this has the potential to really get elevated before 292 00:16:25,960 --> 00:16:29,920 Speaker 1: the end of the year. I mean, between the Trump's 293 00:16:29,920 --> 00:16:33,800 Speaker 1: suits himself and this and now other members of the 294 00:16:33,920 --> 00:16:38,680 Speaker 1: UH the Trump administration defying the congressional subpoenas um, we 295 00:16:38,720 --> 00:16:42,440 Speaker 1: could have another massive disaster on Capitol Hill that has 296 00:16:42,480 --> 00:16:45,480 Speaker 1: nothing to do with legislation. Yeah, no doubt Matt really 297 00:16:45,560 --> 00:16:47,800 Speaker 1: says the TV show should be called toxic. I think 298 00:16:47,800 --> 00:16:51,080 Speaker 1: that he just put his finger on it. Kaylee mckinetnie, 299 00:16:51,080 --> 00:16:53,720 Speaker 1: Stephen Miller, Genie, how about the rest? Are they compelled 300 00:16:53,760 --> 00:16:57,680 Speaker 1: to start playing along? Now? They certainly should be. And 301 00:16:57,720 --> 00:17:01,080 Speaker 1: I'm gonna say, Matt Shirley did it again? Um, you 302 00:17:01,120 --> 00:17:03,680 Speaker 1: know they they certainly should be. I mean again, this 303 00:17:03,800 --> 00:17:07,359 Speaker 1: is all about deterrence. But you know, the flip side 304 00:17:07,359 --> 00:17:09,320 Speaker 1: of this is this is going to take a long 305 00:17:09,440 --> 00:17:12,200 Speaker 1: time to go through the court system. You know how long, 306 00:17:12,280 --> 00:17:14,840 Speaker 1: we don't know. But that is what the Trump team 307 00:17:14,880 --> 00:17:17,720 Speaker 1: is banking on in every step of the way. They 308 00:17:17,720 --> 00:17:21,280 Speaker 1: are waiting in hope that the Republicans take over Congress 309 00:17:21,320 --> 00:17:24,800 Speaker 1: in the mid term, that this January six Committee goes 310 00:17:24,800 --> 00:17:28,159 Speaker 1: by the wayside and they can wait until inauguration to 311 00:17:28,280 --> 00:17:30,480 Speaker 1: take over the House. And by the way, some talk 312 00:17:30,560 --> 00:17:34,280 Speaker 1: about potentially Donald Trump becoming Speaker of the House, something 313 00:17:34,320 --> 00:17:36,600 Speaker 1: we haven't talked about on here, but certainly something you 314 00:17:36,600 --> 00:17:39,280 Speaker 1: hear about in Republican circles. But that's what they're banking on, 315 00:17:39,480 --> 00:17:42,760 Speaker 1: using up the time, letting the clock run out so 316 00:17:43,080 --> 00:17:46,000 Speaker 1: they're folks don't have to go and testify, in making 317 00:17:46,040 --> 00:17:48,360 Speaker 1: it as hard as possible for the January six Committee 318 00:17:48,359 --> 00:17:52,200 Speaker 1: to tell the American public precisely what happened that day. Well, 319 00:17:52,200 --> 00:17:54,879 Speaker 1: as we've said before, Rick is this Steve Bannon is 320 00:17:54,920 --> 00:17:56,679 Speaker 1: it's good for the Bannon brand. We kind of love 321 00:17:56,760 --> 00:17:58,560 Speaker 1: to go to jail, right, These would be great images, 322 00:17:58,840 --> 00:18:01,679 Speaker 1: lots more subscribers, whatever it is he's looking for. You know, 323 00:18:01,720 --> 00:18:04,000 Speaker 1: I I don't know if anybody loves to go to jail. 324 00:18:04,040 --> 00:18:06,840 Speaker 1: I think that's just defies sensibility, you know. But he 325 00:18:07,200 --> 00:18:09,199 Speaker 1: dies a bullet once before. I mean, you know, he 326 00:18:09,320 --> 00:18:12,240 Speaker 1: was going to jail for building people out of money 327 00:18:12,240 --> 00:18:14,840 Speaker 1: on the border scam that he had, and Donald Trump 328 00:18:14,880 --> 00:18:17,800 Speaker 1: had to give him a pardon. Uh, even if Donald 329 00:18:17,800 --> 00:18:22,240 Speaker 1: Trump is the speaker, which uh, just you've blown my 330 00:18:22,320 --> 00:18:27,160 Speaker 1: mind for the entire weekend. I'm sorry, he still can't 331 00:18:27,200 --> 00:18:30,440 Speaker 1: pardon anybody. Now he may think he can, but it's 332 00:18:30,480 --> 00:18:34,080 Speaker 1: the reality is in this case, Bannon has real legal 333 00:18:34,160 --> 00:18:36,439 Speaker 1: jeopardy and there's nobody that baile him out of it. 334 00:18:36,520 --> 00:18:40,520 Speaker 1: And and this administration, the Trump administration, and it's and 335 00:18:40,560 --> 00:18:43,680 Speaker 1: it's lieutenants like Bannon who hadn't served since two thousand 336 00:18:43,800 --> 00:18:47,800 Speaker 1: seventeen have really flattered the law at every level. And uh, 337 00:18:47,920 --> 00:18:50,280 Speaker 1: we're now just uncovering some of those things, and this 338 00:18:50,359 --> 00:18:52,639 Speaker 1: is just another example of people who don't care to 339 00:18:52,760 --> 00:18:55,720 Speaker 1: obey the law. Rick and Jeanie with us on a Friday, 340 00:18:55,720 --> 00:18:58,359 Speaker 1: We're gonna get into reconciliation. What might happen to the 341 00:18:58,359 --> 00:19:01,360 Speaker 1: Biden plan next week with Rick and Jeanie a little 342 00:19:01,359 --> 00:19:03,840 Speaker 1: bit later on this hour coming up, President Biden also 343 00:19:04,000 --> 00:19:07,320 Speaker 1: meets with President she on Monday, at least virtually, and 344 00:19:07,440 --> 00:19:10,119 Speaker 1: we'll talk about what he needs to accomplish with Thomas Pickering, 345 00:19:10,200 --> 00:19:13,879 Speaker 1: career ambassador with the State Department. Next right here on 346 00:19:14,000 --> 00:19:19,120 Speaker 1: sound On, I'm Joe Matthew. This is Bloomberg broadcasting live 347 00:19:19,280 --> 00:19:24,199 Speaker 1: from our nation's capital, Bloomberg to New York, Bloomberg eleven, 348 00:19:24,280 --> 00:19:28,480 Speaker 1: Frio to Boston, Bloomberg one oh six one to San Francisco, 349 00:19:28,600 --> 00:19:33,520 Speaker 1: Bloomberg nine sixty to the country, Serious XM Channel one 350 00:19:32,960 --> 00:19:36,119 Speaker 1: nine and around the globe the Bloomberg Business app and 351 00:19:36,240 --> 00:19:41,000 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Radio dot Com. This is Bloomberg Sound On with 352 00:19:41,240 --> 00:19:45,480 Speaker 1: Joe Matthew. So it's on the next week and the 353 00:19:45,520 --> 00:19:48,760 Speaker 1: big summit Monday. With the headline on the terminal Biden 354 00:19:48,880 --> 00:19:52,680 Speaker 1: She to talk Monday and bid to ease tension between rivals, 355 00:19:53,680 --> 00:19:58,119 Speaker 1: is that the deliverable. This caught the tension, clear the 356 00:19:58,119 --> 00:20:00,280 Speaker 1: air a little bit. Or can we expect to more 357 00:20:00,359 --> 00:20:05,240 Speaker 1: pointed conversation about specifics issues climate Taiwan. We'll talk about 358 00:20:05,240 --> 00:20:09,000 Speaker 1: that next with Thomas Pickering, career ambassador with the State Department. 359 00:20:09,119 --> 00:20:10,880 Speaker 1: And we're spending some time today giving you a real 360 00:20:10,960 --> 00:20:13,320 Speaker 1: sense of what's going to happen next week. Not only 361 00:20:13,359 --> 00:20:16,840 Speaker 1: with the reconciliation bill, the signing on Monday, or Steve 362 00:20:16,840 --> 00:20:19,320 Speaker 1: Bannon for that matter, but what could be President Biden's 363 00:20:19,359 --> 00:20:23,080 Speaker 1: most important bilateral meeting. Yeah, the virtual summit with President 364 00:20:23,160 --> 00:20:27,040 Speaker 1: she on Monday. White House Press Secretary Jen Saki was 365 00:20:27,080 --> 00:20:30,080 Speaker 1: asked about it at today's briefing. Part of the discussion 366 00:20:30,160 --> 00:20:32,639 Speaker 1: was about the importance of that leader to leader engagement, 367 00:20:32,960 --> 00:20:36,320 Speaker 1: not because um, we are seeking and we're not specific 368 00:20:36,359 --> 00:20:40,080 Speaker 1: deliverables or outcomes, uh More, because this is about setting 369 00:20:40,080 --> 00:20:43,440 Speaker 1: the terms and our view of an effective competition. We're 370 00:20:43,480 --> 00:20:46,120 Speaker 1: we're in a position to defend our values getting into 371 00:20:46,119 --> 00:20:47,760 Speaker 1: some of the talks leading up to the summit. There 372 00:20:47,760 --> 00:20:51,080 Speaker 1: are so many issues these two men could discuss, and 373 00:20:51,119 --> 00:20:53,199 Speaker 1: we get to dig into the agenda here with a 374 00:20:53,280 --> 00:20:55,320 Speaker 1: real expert. It's a great pleasure of been looking forward 375 00:20:55,320 --> 00:20:57,600 Speaker 1: to this conversation and a chance to bring back legendary 376 00:20:57,640 --> 00:21:00,880 Speaker 1: diplomat Thomas Pickering, career ambassador with the eight Department, former 377 00:21:01,000 --> 00:21:04,520 Speaker 1: US Ambassador to the u N, Mr Ambassador, Welcome back 378 00:21:04,520 --> 00:21:06,800 Speaker 1: to Bloomberg. Before I ask you about the issues at hand, 379 00:21:07,440 --> 00:21:09,280 Speaker 1: I wonder what you think about the idea of a 380 00:21:09,359 --> 00:21:13,439 Speaker 1: virtual summit with such an important interface here, these two 381 00:21:13,560 --> 00:21:15,520 Speaker 1: leaders will be looking at screens like we all do 382 00:21:15,640 --> 00:21:18,880 Speaker 1: on zoom right. Does that limit the potential for progress 383 00:21:18,960 --> 00:21:21,200 Speaker 1: when they're not in the same room looking at each 384 00:21:21,240 --> 00:21:25,359 Speaker 1: other in the eye? I think Mr Matthew, it does, 385 00:21:25,600 --> 00:21:29,520 Speaker 1: but maybe not as much as people would like to 386 00:21:29,560 --> 00:21:35,920 Speaker 1: imagine or think. Both of these are skilled interlocutors, skilled 387 00:21:36,040 --> 00:21:39,280 Speaker 1: people at talking with other people at their level and 388 00:21:39,359 --> 00:21:42,640 Speaker 1: at their rank. See and Biden have had a lot 389 00:21:42,680 --> 00:21:46,120 Speaker 1: of background and experience with each other over the years, 390 00:21:46,119 --> 00:21:48,960 Speaker 1: Biden when he was vice president, See when he was 391 00:21:49,080 --> 00:21:55,560 Speaker 1: vice president. So looking each one at the screen reflects 392 00:21:55,880 --> 00:21:58,640 Speaker 1: some of those body signals that come out of talking, 393 00:21:59,119 --> 00:22:02,399 Speaker 1: where the noise is less important than how and in 394 00:22:02,440 --> 00:22:06,720 Speaker 1: what way the head moves or the eyes blink. So 395 00:22:06,760 --> 00:22:09,680 Speaker 1: what does President Biden's job then, and how low are 396 00:22:09,720 --> 00:22:12,399 Speaker 1: your expectations for this meeting. Is it about Joe Biden 397 00:22:12,480 --> 00:22:15,439 Speaker 1: breaking the ice or actually moving the ball and issues 398 00:22:15,480 --> 00:22:20,000 Speaker 1: like climate, human rights or Taiwan. The ice shows cracks 399 00:22:20,119 --> 00:22:23,560 Speaker 1: to pick up on your metaphor, but it's not yet broken. 400 00:22:24,119 --> 00:22:27,400 Speaker 1: The cracks are in three or four different areas. One 401 00:22:27,480 --> 00:22:31,520 Speaker 1: is climate change, where John Kerry and his Chinese opposite number, 402 00:22:31,520 --> 00:22:34,520 Speaker 1: who he knows well, have come forward with a framework 403 00:22:34,640 --> 00:22:38,600 Speaker 1: at Glasgow that I think will help along the question 404 00:22:38,680 --> 00:22:41,600 Speaker 1: of what will come out of Glasgow, although we're still 405 00:22:41,640 --> 00:22:45,399 Speaker 1: not certain of entirely how that's going to be. But 406 00:22:45,600 --> 00:22:48,480 Speaker 1: it is a forward move, and it is on paper, 407 00:22:48,920 --> 00:22:52,920 Speaker 1: and it involves both sides making commitments far from perfect 408 00:22:53,000 --> 00:22:57,280 Speaker 1: but less but more important than nothing at all. The 409 00:22:57,359 --> 00:23:01,320 Speaker 1: seconds in trade and where our trade ambassador has worked 410 00:23:01,359 --> 00:23:05,520 Speaker 1: hard to begin to open some groundwork, and that will 411 00:23:05,560 --> 00:23:08,679 Speaker 1: not be unimportant if tariffs can be reduced over time. 412 00:23:08,760 --> 00:23:13,040 Speaker 1: A tariff war raises prices, and prices raise inflation, and 413 00:23:13,119 --> 00:23:17,160 Speaker 1: inflation is not in anybody's interest right now, and that's significant. 414 00:23:17,680 --> 00:23:20,240 Speaker 1: US and China have big differences, and one of those 415 00:23:20,440 --> 00:23:23,480 Speaker 1: is going to play out, I think, very very carefully 416 00:23:24,160 --> 00:23:28,640 Speaker 1: over the next days. And that's the invitation to President 417 00:23:28,720 --> 00:23:31,679 Speaker 1: Biden to attend the Olympics in China and what he 418 00:23:31,720 --> 00:23:34,000 Speaker 1: will do. He don't't have to make up his mind 419 00:23:34,119 --> 00:23:36,840 Speaker 1: right away, but it's one of those things where if 420 00:23:36,880 --> 00:23:40,080 Speaker 1: he doesn't go, he has a China problem. If he 421 00:23:40,160 --> 00:23:42,880 Speaker 1: does go, he may have an electoral problem. In November 422 00:23:42,920 --> 00:23:48,439 Speaker 1: of two, people have suggested, why doesn't he go but 423 00:23:48,600 --> 00:23:51,840 Speaker 1: make a really tough speech on things like human rights 424 00:23:52,280 --> 00:23:56,120 Speaker 1: that won't please China, but it won't hurt him as 425 00:23:56,200 --> 00:23:59,440 Speaker 1: much as going and not doing that would hurt him 426 00:23:59,480 --> 00:24:01,800 Speaker 1: in the An twenty two elections. Is that what he 427 00:24:01,840 --> 00:24:04,720 Speaker 1: should do, then, I think it's an interesting idea and 428 00:24:04,720 --> 00:24:09,440 Speaker 1: he should really give it careful consideration. Other factors that 429 00:24:09,440 --> 00:24:12,080 Speaker 1: that they know about that we don't know about. Sometimes 430 00:24:12,119 --> 00:24:15,119 Speaker 1: that's the case that will put him off. But my 431 00:24:15,280 --> 00:24:18,600 Speaker 1: view is that China is an important relationship. We will 432 00:24:18,680 --> 00:24:23,040 Speaker 1: never have perfect relationships with China. There will always be contention. 433 00:24:23,560 --> 00:24:27,040 Speaker 1: But the last thing we or Beijing should ever want 434 00:24:27,080 --> 00:24:31,160 Speaker 1: to have is a conflict, particularly a conflict that could 435 00:24:31,200 --> 00:24:34,760 Speaker 1: slide into a nuclear exchange. And China is building up 436 00:24:34,760 --> 00:24:38,760 Speaker 1: its nuclear forces right now. Ours are fairly large. China 437 00:24:38,840 --> 00:24:43,560 Speaker 1: is worried about missile defense trumping their forces, if I 438 00:24:43,560 --> 00:24:46,680 Speaker 1: could use that word in a different sense today. Uh, 439 00:24:46,680 --> 00:24:50,560 Speaker 1: And that is something that we need to be thinking 440 00:24:50,600 --> 00:24:53,440 Speaker 1: about because in the long run, the US and China 441 00:24:53,480 --> 00:24:56,040 Speaker 1: are going to have to talk about nuclear forces and 442 00:24:56,080 --> 00:24:58,639 Speaker 1: what to do about them, as we started to do 443 00:24:58,720 --> 00:25:02,280 Speaker 1: with Russia. But we both it's going to be very hard. Ambassador, 444 00:25:02,280 --> 00:25:05,960 Speaker 1: you mentioned the Climate Accords. Some Republicans are criticizing the 445 00:25:06,000 --> 00:25:09,880 Speaker 1: administration and specifically John Kerry for striking a deal here 446 00:25:09,880 --> 00:25:13,120 Speaker 1: with China. Nikki Haley was accusing him of accepting Chinese 447 00:25:13,200 --> 00:25:17,080 Speaker 1: slave labor to promote the Biden climate agenda. Is that 448 00:25:17,119 --> 00:25:20,119 Speaker 1: at risk for this White House balancing human rights and 449 00:25:20,119 --> 00:25:23,720 Speaker 1: and finding progress on the climate. It's always a risk 450 00:25:23,760 --> 00:25:29,120 Speaker 1: of the American public attitude towards China has grown very 451 00:25:29,160 --> 00:25:34,480 Speaker 1: starkly negative. I think unnecessarily so. But some of that 452 00:25:34,520 --> 00:25:37,919 Speaker 1: has come out of arguments that we've had with China 453 00:25:38,080 --> 00:25:43,640 Speaker 1: over the theft of technology, over Chinese predatory practices and economics, 454 00:25:44,440 --> 00:25:47,760 Speaker 1: over the treatment of American firms in China. So it's 455 00:25:47,800 --> 00:25:52,200 Speaker 1: not without some backing. On the other hand, Uh, in 456 00:25:52,240 --> 00:25:54,600 Speaker 1: this day and age, as I said a moment ago, 457 00:25:55,240 --> 00:25:58,399 Speaker 1: even with tough opponents if there are places where you 458 00:25:58,440 --> 00:26:02,120 Speaker 1: can move things together, it may be worth while taking 459 00:26:02,200 --> 00:26:05,600 Speaker 1: a venture in that direction, although the President will know 460 00:26:05,760 --> 00:26:11,080 Speaker 1: as much as anybody else. How broadly, his party and 461 00:26:11,200 --> 00:26:14,800 Speaker 1: the Republican Party have people in it who, one way 462 00:26:14,880 --> 00:26:18,560 Speaker 1: or another are highly suspicious of China and very doubtful 463 00:26:18,600 --> 00:26:22,000 Speaker 1: well China will keep its word. And he needs, obviously 464 00:26:22,160 --> 00:26:25,399 Speaker 1: to engage himself in a way step by step that 465 00:26:25,480 --> 00:26:28,480 Speaker 1: can check this so he doesn't get caught out. All right, 466 00:26:28,560 --> 00:26:30,840 Speaker 1: So how about Taiwan? When when you're talking about the 467 00:26:30,880 --> 00:26:34,080 Speaker 1: first big conversation like this, do you show all of 468 00:26:34,119 --> 00:26:36,000 Speaker 1: your cards? Do you bring up all the issues? Is 469 00:26:36,000 --> 00:26:38,719 Speaker 1: Taiwan something that Joe Biden gets to If you're if 470 00:26:38,760 --> 00:26:41,880 Speaker 1: you're advising the president here, Mr ambassador, do you stay 471 00:26:41,880 --> 00:26:44,520 Speaker 1: away from you think it's it's something He has to 472 00:26:44,560 --> 00:26:49,800 Speaker 1: make it clear that the United States is committed on 473 00:26:49,840 --> 00:26:53,520 Speaker 1: the one hand to one China, so it is not 474 00:26:53,600 --> 00:26:59,760 Speaker 1: going to support independence for Taiwan. And secondly, the United 475 00:26:59,800 --> 00:27:04,040 Speaker 1: State AIDS is totally committed against China using violence to 476 00:27:04,200 --> 00:27:08,359 Speaker 1: reunite to Taiwan and mainland China, And he has to 477 00:27:08,440 --> 00:27:12,399 Speaker 1: lay those two markers down. They define a status quo 478 00:27:12,800 --> 00:27:16,879 Speaker 1: which neither side is satisfied with as an end game, 479 00:27:17,480 --> 00:27:21,439 Speaker 1: but both sides know very very well is the best 480 00:27:21,520 --> 00:27:25,800 Speaker 1: way they have now to avoid a conflict, even if 481 00:27:25,840 --> 00:27:29,199 Speaker 1: it isn't a perfect solution to each of their desires. 482 00:27:30,400 --> 00:27:33,679 Speaker 1: As President, she talks to the capitalists in America in 483 00:27:33,720 --> 00:27:37,800 Speaker 1: this virtual summit on Monday. Does he bring up the 484 00:27:37,840 --> 00:27:40,240 Speaker 1: so called crackdown? I guess that's the best word we'll 485 00:27:40,359 --> 00:27:43,600 Speaker 1: use on publicly traded companies, the deterioration that we've seen 486 00:27:43,640 --> 00:27:47,400 Speaker 1: in our economic relationship with regard to foreign investment, Ambassador, 487 00:27:48,080 --> 00:27:51,560 Speaker 1: I think so. I think there are enough examples for 488 00:27:51,800 --> 00:27:56,960 Speaker 1: Presidency to know that Americans are leaving China and are 489 00:27:57,080 --> 00:28:00,919 Speaker 1: leaving their investments in China, and that they have contributed 490 00:28:00,960 --> 00:28:04,680 Speaker 1: a lot to the China economy. And it, interestingly enough, 491 00:28:04,720 --> 00:28:08,119 Speaker 1: in the long term, the China economy is heavily dependent 492 00:28:08,560 --> 00:28:12,199 Speaker 1: on the dollar as a safe source of long term investment, 493 00:28:12,640 --> 00:28:15,359 Speaker 1: while at the same time it is heavily dependent upon 494 00:28:15,440 --> 00:28:19,600 Speaker 1: the United States as a market. And that safe source 495 00:28:19,640 --> 00:28:23,160 Speaker 1: of investment is helpful to the U. S. Treasury, which 496 00:28:23,200 --> 00:28:27,280 Speaker 1: is of course necessarily borrowing money, particularly in the time 497 00:28:27,320 --> 00:28:31,399 Speaker 1: of the pandemic crisis, to help perfuel, the return of 498 00:28:31,440 --> 00:28:35,440 Speaker 1: the American economy, which is moving in a positive direction, 499 00:28:35,600 --> 00:28:38,760 Speaker 1: not where everybody wants it to be yet, but certainly 500 00:28:38,800 --> 00:28:42,720 Speaker 1: has shown signs of new life as that goes ahead, 501 00:28:43,200 --> 00:28:48,160 Speaker 1: and a economic battle at China to the disadvantage of 502 00:28:48,160 --> 00:28:51,360 Speaker 1: both China and the United States would cut into that. 503 00:28:51,520 --> 00:28:54,720 Speaker 1: It might even help to increase the rate of inflation, 504 00:28:54,760 --> 00:28:57,840 Speaker 1: which is something that we're worried about here in this country, 505 00:28:57,840 --> 00:29:00,320 Speaker 1: and we should be and we don't want to see 506 00:29:00,840 --> 00:29:04,640 Speaker 1: take place. So do you see that ambassador maybe letting 507 00:29:04,680 --> 00:29:06,719 Speaker 1: up on the rains a little bit in China? You 508 00:29:06,760 --> 00:29:08,840 Speaker 1: see some of these stocks recover, Maybe there's a better 509 00:29:08,880 --> 00:29:11,960 Speaker 1: conversation with foreign investors, or have we turned a corner. 510 00:29:12,800 --> 00:29:15,080 Speaker 1: I don't think we've turned a corner yet, and I 511 00:29:15,080 --> 00:29:17,800 Speaker 1: think it's too early to say that there is going 512 00:29:17,840 --> 00:29:20,640 Speaker 1: to be easing up. What my feeling is that you 513 00:29:20,840 --> 00:29:23,520 Speaker 1: have to talk about it. It's something that should be 514 00:29:23,560 --> 00:29:27,600 Speaker 1: on President Biden's agenda. Hopefully it will be, although they've 515 00:29:27,640 --> 00:29:30,760 Speaker 1: both been very guarded about the subjects they will talk 516 00:29:30,800 --> 00:29:34,280 Speaker 1: about and how extensively they will go. My own view 517 00:29:34,320 --> 00:29:37,720 Speaker 1: would be that a good outcome from this would be 518 00:29:37,760 --> 00:29:43,960 Speaker 1: basically nothing worse, and some reports of areas for further stability, 519 00:29:44,400 --> 00:29:48,640 Speaker 1: like the Climate Change Framework, and perhaps some commitment to 520 00:29:48,720 --> 00:29:53,040 Speaker 1: talk about reducing tariffs. Special conversation on Bloomberg Sound On 521 00:29:53,160 --> 00:29:56,720 Speaker 1: with Ambassador Thomas Pickering. I wonder that the thirty foot 522 00:29:56,800 --> 00:29:59,600 Speaker 1: view your thoughts on this, because if I'm hearing your 523 00:29:59,640 --> 00:30:02,280 Speaker 1: tone in the words you're choosing, you see this as 524 00:30:02,320 --> 00:30:04,840 Speaker 1: a as a very significant meeting. I wonder if you 525 00:30:04,880 --> 00:30:07,560 Speaker 1: can frame the context historically here of how important this 526 00:30:07,640 --> 00:30:10,640 Speaker 1: is for this president. I think that it is. I 527 00:30:10,680 --> 00:30:15,880 Speaker 1: think that it may rival the early meetings that both 528 00:30:16,000 --> 00:30:20,760 Speaker 1: Henry Kissinger first and then President Richard Nixon had in 529 00:30:20,800 --> 00:30:24,320 Speaker 1: their visits to China and seventy one and seventy two, 530 00:30:26,200 --> 00:30:31,520 Speaker 1: and President Carter's uh full recognition of dun Shaw pings 531 00:30:31,640 --> 00:30:35,320 Speaker 1: China in seventy nine when he was here. So it 532 00:30:35,440 --> 00:30:38,960 Speaker 1: is important to look at it. This meeting, however, may 533 00:30:39,000 --> 00:30:43,280 Speaker 1: be the first of an opening rather than necessarily in 534 00:30:43,320 --> 00:30:48,200 Speaker 1: and of itself, this positive that is fully satisfactory at 535 00:30:48,240 --> 00:30:51,600 Speaker 1: resolving the problems, but if it does help to launch 536 00:30:52,040 --> 00:30:57,440 Speaker 1: a slightly changing US China attitude, that is contention where 537 00:30:57,520 --> 00:31:01,440 Speaker 1: it's necessary from the US point of view and competition 538 00:31:01,680 --> 00:31:05,480 Speaker 1: where it is required, while at the same time cooperation 539 00:31:05,600 --> 00:31:08,520 Speaker 1: where it can be worked. We will have a better 540 00:31:08,560 --> 00:31:13,000 Speaker 1: relationship with China than one that is characterized by total 541 00:31:13,080 --> 00:31:17,520 Speaker 1: competition all the time, even in areas where we have 542 00:31:17,680 --> 00:31:20,880 Speaker 1: common interests. When you're arranging a meeting like this, Ambassador, 543 00:31:20,960 --> 00:31:24,920 Speaker 1: you're talking to the president and officials beforehand. How much 544 00:31:24,960 --> 00:31:29,000 Speaker 1: of a goal is a second meeting in itself? Second 545 00:31:29,000 --> 00:31:32,400 Speaker 1: meeting is always useful UH, and it should be thought 546 00:31:32,440 --> 00:31:37,600 Speaker 1: about as should further follow on meetings. UH. With China, 547 00:31:37,840 --> 00:31:43,560 Speaker 1: they play games that are strategic UH. And that means 548 00:31:43,600 --> 00:31:49,760 Speaker 1: that China has a long history of strategic thinking. We need, 549 00:31:49,840 --> 00:31:53,520 Speaker 1: in terms of dealing with China to complement that with 550 00:31:53,640 --> 00:31:57,040 Speaker 1: our own strategic thinking about where we want to go 551 00:31:57,240 --> 00:32:00,080 Speaker 1: in the future, how we're going to get there, and 552 00:32:00,120 --> 00:32:02,400 Speaker 1: how that's going to be organized. At the meeting that 553 00:32:02,480 --> 00:32:04,680 Speaker 1: takes place this week. How long do you think they 554 00:32:04,680 --> 00:32:06,960 Speaker 1: should go. I'm sure there's a point of diminishing returns, 555 00:32:07,000 --> 00:32:10,440 Speaker 1: particularly when you're dealing with interpreters. Ambassador, what do you 556 00:32:10,560 --> 00:32:14,680 Speaker 1: put the guardrails on this? No, I hesitate to guess, 557 00:32:14,720 --> 00:32:19,080 Speaker 1: but I would think two hours with the consecutive interpretation, 558 00:32:19,160 --> 00:32:23,440 Speaker 1: which is probably what they'll do. Gives each person a 559 00:32:23,560 --> 00:32:26,959 Speaker 1: chance to think about what the other side is saying 560 00:32:28,040 --> 00:32:34,479 Speaker 1: without having to respond immediately. H A A is a 561 00:32:34,480 --> 00:32:37,000 Speaker 1: good framework, and I don't know how much time they've 562 00:32:37,040 --> 00:32:40,200 Speaker 1: allocated for it, but I do know that zoom is 563 00:32:40,280 --> 00:32:44,000 Speaker 1: wearing and that more than two hours begins to run. 564 00:32:46,040 --> 00:32:50,600 Speaker 1: How true. Great insights from legendary diplomat Thomas Pickering, career 565 00:32:50,600 --> 00:32:53,600 Speaker 1: ambassador with the State Department. We're lucky to have your 566 00:32:53,600 --> 00:32:55,960 Speaker 1: insights today, Mr Ambassador, Thanks so much for being with 567 00:32:56,040 --> 00:32:58,280 Speaker 1: us on Bloomberg Radio. We look forward to having you back. 568 00:32:59,160 --> 00:33:04,080 Speaker 1: Sound On brought you by SEI. Crisis emphasized character and partnership, 569 00:33:04,160 --> 00:33:07,080 Speaker 1: One mission, one community, SEI. Go to se i C 570 00:33:07,280 --> 00:33:10,840 Speaker 1: dot com slash I m S. We want to update 571 00:33:10,840 --> 00:33:13,880 Speaker 1: the markets right now. The week is already over. Let's 572 00:33:13,880 --> 00:33:16,400 Speaker 1: hear about it. From Mr Charlie Pellett. Thanks for spending 573 00:33:16,480 --> 00:33:19,040 Speaker 1: part of your Friday with us here on Bloomberg Radio. 574 00:33:19,120 --> 00:33:22,320 Speaker 1: It's Sound On. I'm Joe Matthew back in Washington today. 575 00:33:22,400 --> 00:33:25,240 Speaker 1: Was cool being a World headquarters yesterday. You've never seen 576 00:33:25,320 --> 00:33:28,360 Speaker 1: a hive of activity like it. And we reassemble the 577 00:33:28,400 --> 00:33:32,880 Speaker 1: panel now with Bloomberg Politics contributors Jeanie Shenzano and Rick Davis. 578 00:33:32,920 --> 00:33:36,080 Speaker 1: What an incredible conversation with the ambassador A genie. I'll 579 00:33:36,080 --> 00:33:38,600 Speaker 1: start with you. I was really surprised by some of 580 00:33:38,600 --> 00:33:40,880 Speaker 1: the things he said. Now, this virtual summit is set 581 00:33:40,920 --> 00:33:44,440 Speaker 1: from Monday evening Washington time, it will be Tuesday morning 582 00:33:44,440 --> 00:33:47,200 Speaker 1: in Beijing, and the two sides are, not, by the way, 583 00:33:47,280 --> 00:33:49,959 Speaker 1: expected to issue a joint statement after. I'm deeply curious 584 00:33:50,000 --> 00:33:52,160 Speaker 1: to hear what kind of messaging comes out of the 585 00:33:52,160 --> 00:33:55,600 Speaker 1: White House. But I have to admit, is are the 586 00:33:55,640 --> 00:33:58,200 Speaker 1: odds stacked against Joe Biden being at night and and 587 00:33:58,280 --> 00:34:00,640 Speaker 1: President she is is just way can out fresh in 588 00:34:00,680 --> 00:34:03,280 Speaker 1: the morning. Well, you know, first all I have to say, 589 00:34:03,320 --> 00:34:07,040 Speaker 1: it was fascinating to hear Ambassador Pickerings take on this. 590 00:34:07,200 --> 00:34:10,160 Speaker 1: I quite frankly never expected him to talk towards the 591 00:34:10,239 --> 00:34:13,040 Speaker 1: end about how historic he thinks these meetings would be. 592 00:34:13,120 --> 00:34:15,680 Speaker 1: I had, you know, much more on the Nixon level. 593 00:34:15,760 --> 00:34:18,000 Speaker 1: I I'm I'm busy writing my little notes that I 594 00:34:18,040 --> 00:34:21,480 Speaker 1: always take. So I was. I was fascinating, and you know, 595 00:34:21,600 --> 00:34:24,480 Speaker 1: and and he's absolutely right about the zoom aspect. But 596 00:34:24,800 --> 00:34:27,480 Speaker 1: you know, I do think this is such an important 597 00:34:27,520 --> 00:34:31,000 Speaker 1: meeting for Joe Biden. He promised um early on as 598 00:34:31,080 --> 00:34:34,920 Speaker 1: Canada and certainly as President, that he would hold a meeting. Obviously, 599 00:34:35,160 --> 00:34:36,600 Speaker 1: rather do it face to face, He's going to have 600 00:34:36,680 --> 00:34:39,879 Speaker 1: to do it via zoom in the pandemic, but with 601 00:34:39,680 --> 00:34:42,920 Speaker 1: h with the president of China before the year is up, 602 00:34:42,960 --> 00:34:45,480 Speaker 1: he's getting a chance to do that. He had I 603 00:34:45,520 --> 00:34:48,960 Speaker 1: think some really important news with John Kerry and a 604 00:34:49,080 --> 00:34:53,000 Speaker 1: potential framework um with his Chinese counterpart. So I think 605 00:34:53,000 --> 00:34:55,600 Speaker 1: he's going into this in a way that they can 606 00:34:55,640 --> 00:34:59,520 Speaker 1: really reset this relationship because as we've talked about, that 607 00:34:59,640 --> 00:35:03,400 Speaker 1: has been fraught with tension, but particularly since those early 608 00:35:03,600 --> 00:35:06,480 Speaker 1: the Anchorage meeting, um, you know, through the July and 609 00:35:06,560 --> 00:35:10,200 Speaker 1: September meeting with with some of the lower level administrative folks. 610 00:35:10,440 --> 00:35:12,440 Speaker 1: So this I think is going to be very important, 611 00:35:12,520 --> 00:35:15,560 Speaker 1: and it also gives President Biden a chance to speak 612 00:35:15,880 --> 00:35:18,719 Speaker 1: allowed the American public to hear some of what he 613 00:35:18,800 --> 00:35:21,680 Speaker 1: has in store in terms of this fair competition. He 614 00:35:21,880 --> 00:35:23,719 Speaker 1: and we just heard Jen Saki and that sought you 615 00:35:23,719 --> 00:35:26,319 Speaker 1: play keep talking about Yeah, exactly. Rick, I'd love to 616 00:35:26,320 --> 00:35:28,400 Speaker 1: hear your thoughts on this. I'm sure that you've been 617 00:35:28,719 --> 00:35:30,480 Speaker 1: You've a noodle and on this meeting here. But and 618 00:35:30,520 --> 00:35:32,759 Speaker 1: I don't mean to hamper on this this point, but 619 00:35:32,960 --> 00:35:34,960 Speaker 1: wouldn't you rather have your guy be fresh in the 620 00:35:35,000 --> 00:35:37,000 Speaker 1: morning than be the one at night, especially after a 621 00:35:37,000 --> 00:35:39,719 Speaker 1: big bill signing and a ceremony on Monday. Yeah. I 622 00:35:39,719 --> 00:35:42,279 Speaker 1: think these are all part of the atmospherics that go 623 00:35:42,320 --> 00:35:45,960 Speaker 1: into the negotiation to even have the summit to begin with, right. 624 00:35:46,120 --> 00:35:49,880 Speaker 1: I mean, we very easily could have had Chi at 625 00:35:49,960 --> 00:35:53,040 Speaker 1: night and Joe Biden first thing in the morning. But 626 00:35:53,520 --> 00:35:56,000 Speaker 1: I think there's a broader issue here too, and that 627 00:35:56,200 --> 00:35:58,840 Speaker 1: is that who would you rather be going into this summit? 628 00:35:59,120 --> 00:36:02,640 Speaker 1: She who is just been anointed the next major player 629 00:36:02,760 --> 00:36:06,000 Speaker 1: Mao Dang and now Chi with this new one year 630 00:36:06,120 --> 00:36:11,080 Speaker 1: resolution that has just passed today in China, Or Joe Biden, 631 00:36:11,160 --> 00:36:14,680 Speaker 1: who can't even get his economic policy through a Democratic 632 00:36:14,760 --> 00:36:19,040 Speaker 1: led Congress, who hasn't been able to foster a big 633 00:36:19,080 --> 00:36:25,200 Speaker 1: win in the climate Uh hearings in couldn't even get 634 00:36:25,280 --> 00:36:29,160 Speaker 1: she to show up, and and so sure, um, when 635 00:36:29,200 --> 00:36:32,719 Speaker 1: you come into this summit on Monday, Uh, she's gonna 636 00:36:32,760 --> 00:36:35,279 Speaker 1: have an upper hand. He's he's got a diplomat, he's 637 00:36:35,320 --> 00:36:38,800 Speaker 1: got a domestic wind at his back. And and Biden 638 00:36:38,840 --> 00:36:41,120 Speaker 1: has a domestic win in his face. So I think 639 00:36:41,160 --> 00:36:43,680 Speaker 1: what Genie is saying about how you then talk about 640 00:36:43,719 --> 00:36:45,560 Speaker 1: what came out of this is going to be very 641 00:36:45,600 --> 00:36:49,560 Speaker 1: important because I think both parties would benefit from it 642 00:36:49,640 --> 00:36:52,480 Speaker 1: being positive, right, that you're not coming out of here 643 00:36:52,520 --> 00:36:55,840 Speaker 1: with bad news, um, both for she to have a 644 00:36:55,920 --> 00:36:58,960 Speaker 1: victory dance and for Biden to you know, really keep 645 00:36:59,000 --> 00:37:02,359 Speaker 1: the focus on wash Ington and not be detried derailed 646 00:37:02,640 --> 00:37:05,560 Speaker 1: by a blow up with the Chinese. Why no joint 647 00:37:05,600 --> 00:37:07,759 Speaker 1: statement quickly, Rick, you talked about the planning that goes 648 00:37:07,760 --> 00:37:11,200 Speaker 1: into this. Uh, would that come after a subsequent meeting? 649 00:37:11,239 --> 00:37:13,520 Speaker 1: We need to build more trust before we sit down 650 00:37:13,640 --> 00:37:15,800 Speaker 1: and crank out a statement together, a news released together. 651 00:37:15,960 --> 00:37:18,240 Speaker 1: You know, it's not even trust. We will never trust 652 00:37:18,280 --> 00:37:20,680 Speaker 1: the Chinese, and the Chinese will never trust us, right, 653 00:37:20,719 --> 00:37:24,680 Speaker 1: and so so it's about outcome, and by design, there 654 00:37:24,800 --> 00:37:27,800 Speaker 1: is no outcome plan for this. I was part of 655 00:37:27,840 --> 00:37:31,880 Speaker 1: the Reagan administration when Reagan had a very famous Rachelvik 656 00:37:32,280 --> 00:37:36,440 Speaker 1: summit with with the head of Russia, and it was 657 00:37:36,600 --> 00:37:39,080 Speaker 1: pre cooked. As you've described earlier in the show. You 658 00:37:39,120 --> 00:37:41,080 Speaker 1: don't go to a summit unless you know what the 659 00:37:41,080 --> 00:37:44,080 Speaker 1: outcome is. Going to be in this case, they actually 660 00:37:44,080 --> 00:37:48,560 Speaker 1: plan no outcome. Uh, it's a conversation and in that conversation, 661 00:37:48,600 --> 00:37:52,040 Speaker 1: and I'm sure it will be as UH Ambassador Pickering described, 662 00:37:52,120 --> 00:37:55,719 Speaker 1: a very wide ranging conversation, covering lots of issues of 663 00:37:55,760 --> 00:37:58,640 Speaker 1: interest on both parties. But it's not designed to have 664 00:37:58,760 --> 00:38:02,520 Speaker 1: any conclusion. And if there's no conclusion, why why issue 665 00:38:02,520 --> 00:38:05,480 Speaker 1: a statement? I guess there's arguably more on the line. 666 00:38:05,480 --> 00:38:08,279 Speaker 1: Maybe that's pushing it than than Reagan, Gorba Chof and 667 00:38:08,360 --> 00:38:11,359 Speaker 1: reik Vick. Right, if we're talking about this, this new 668 00:38:11,440 --> 00:38:14,319 Speaker 1: this this emerging world power in which we could be 669 00:38:14,360 --> 00:38:16,279 Speaker 1: in a cold war already, it's kind of hard to 670 00:38:16,280 --> 00:38:17,840 Speaker 1: tell if for the you know, the frog and the 671 00:38:17,880 --> 00:38:21,160 Speaker 1: boiling pot of water here. But there's so many issues. 672 00:38:21,200 --> 00:38:25,200 Speaker 1: It's not just a military standoff with with Taiwan. Uh, 673 00:38:25,239 --> 00:38:28,040 Speaker 1: it's climate genie as we've been discussing its human rights, 674 00:38:28,200 --> 00:38:32,640 Speaker 1: it's the future of capitalism worldwide. It's it's their owning 675 00:38:32,719 --> 00:38:35,319 Speaker 1: of our debt. Those are pretty high stakes here. How 676 00:38:35,320 --> 00:38:38,040 Speaker 1: does President Biden? How do the administration rank these in 677 00:38:38,160 --> 00:38:41,360 Speaker 1: terms of priorities? You know, and it is Biden himself 678 00:38:41,440 --> 00:38:44,240 Speaker 1: who has ratcheted this up. He has come into office 679 00:38:44,239 --> 00:38:46,239 Speaker 1: saying that this is the battle of the twenty one 680 00:38:46,400 --> 00:38:51,200 Speaker 1: century between democracy and autocracy, and to you know, unfortunately 681 00:38:51,239 --> 00:38:53,200 Speaker 1: for Joe Biden to get back what Rick was talking 682 00:38:53,239 --> 00:38:56,680 Speaker 1: about about domestically is he has said the measure of 683 00:38:56,719 --> 00:39:00,280 Speaker 1: making short democracy wins as can it deliver for its people, 684 00:39:00,640 --> 00:39:02,960 Speaker 1: and so he is struggling to do that and he 685 00:39:03,080 --> 00:39:05,520 Speaker 1: is I think, you know, in some ways the timing 686 00:39:05,680 --> 00:39:08,400 Speaker 1: is a little bit positive for Joe Biden that he 687 00:39:08,520 --> 00:39:11,799 Speaker 1: is finally signing this infrastructure hard be you know, not 688 00:39:11,920 --> 00:39:14,760 Speaker 1: the soft on Monday before he goes into this meeting. 689 00:39:15,080 --> 00:39:17,080 Speaker 1: It's it's a bit it's a big win for him. 690 00:39:17,320 --> 00:39:19,880 Speaker 1: But but as you mentioned, there is a lot on 691 00:39:19,960 --> 00:39:22,920 Speaker 1: the table here, and it doesn't just involve the United States. 692 00:39:22,920 --> 00:39:26,080 Speaker 1: It involves all of our democratic friends and allies around 693 00:39:26,120 --> 00:39:28,960 Speaker 1: the world. You know, one of the very first meetings 694 00:39:29,000 --> 00:39:32,000 Speaker 1: that Joe Biden convened as he came into office was 695 00:39:32,080 --> 00:39:35,040 Speaker 1: with the Quad in an effort to show this sort 696 00:39:35,080 --> 00:39:38,719 Speaker 1: of you know, camaraderie and the sort of sense that 697 00:39:38,880 --> 00:39:42,840 Speaker 1: the democracies of the world are prepared to face the 698 00:39:42,880 --> 00:39:46,080 Speaker 1: autocracy is China being the leading one. So you know, 699 00:39:46,239 --> 00:39:48,319 Speaker 1: there is a lot on the table here. But I 700 00:39:48,360 --> 00:39:51,280 Speaker 1: do think you know they want to keep the expectations 701 00:39:51,360 --> 00:39:53,719 Speaker 1: on this low. As Rick said, they're saying there's no 702 00:39:53,800 --> 00:39:57,160 Speaker 1: big outcome, no major breakthroughs. We're gonna see um. But 703 00:39:57,360 --> 00:40:01,200 Speaker 1: that said, to hear that they are meeting, that alone 704 00:40:01,400 --> 00:40:04,759 Speaker 1: is critically important at this stage as they set this 705 00:40:04,840 --> 00:40:07,399 Speaker 1: relationship and try to figure out how are they going 706 00:40:07,480 --> 00:40:09,719 Speaker 1: to move forward, because there are things we want to 707 00:40:09,719 --> 00:40:12,400 Speaker 1: do together, climate being one of them, but not the 708 00:40:12,440 --> 00:40:15,719 Speaker 1: only one, Trade being another one. I might add that 709 00:40:15,760 --> 00:40:17,879 Speaker 1: if you were listening to sound On earlier this week, 710 00:40:18,040 --> 00:40:20,680 Speaker 1: Peter Martin was with us. We're talking about the big 711 00:40:20,719 --> 00:40:22,840 Speaker 1: take that he helped to write about China. He was 712 00:40:22,920 --> 00:40:25,560 Speaker 1: the first to lay out that Monday meeting, the likelihood 713 00:40:25,600 --> 00:40:28,440 Speaker 1: of a Monday meeting here on Bloomberg Radio. I do 714 00:40:28,480 --> 00:40:30,359 Speaker 1: want to ask you as we look ahead to next week, 715 00:40:30,400 --> 00:40:31,920 Speaker 1: both of you, about what's going to happen on the 716 00:40:31,920 --> 00:40:35,239 Speaker 1: other end of Pennsylvania Avenue with regard to the president's 717 00:40:35,600 --> 00:40:40,279 Speaker 1: economic agenda. Rick, we've got another deadline here. This is 718 00:40:40,400 --> 00:40:43,000 Speaker 1: the week of the fifteenth looming. Now, we already heard 719 00:40:43,040 --> 00:40:44,839 Speaker 1: from the congressman at the top of the hour, Star 720 00:40:44,920 --> 00:40:47,480 Speaker 1: Bans he says the stage is set to bring this 721 00:40:47,520 --> 00:40:50,919 Speaker 1: bill to the floor, but it appears Nancy Pelosi still 722 00:40:50,960 --> 00:40:52,799 Speaker 1: does not know if she has the votes yet. Do 723 00:40:52,840 --> 00:40:55,360 Speaker 1: you think there's action next week? Well, you know, the 724 00:40:55,840 --> 00:40:58,680 Speaker 1: moderates in the Democratic Caucus in the House have said 725 00:40:58,880 --> 00:41:02,240 Speaker 1: very clearly that there are not going to move forward 726 00:41:02,280 --> 00:41:05,120 Speaker 1: on this until they see what the economic impact is. 727 00:41:05,160 --> 00:41:09,080 Speaker 1: They sort of are aping the Mansion line in the Senate. Uh. 728 00:41:09,120 --> 00:41:12,720 Speaker 1: And and as Congressman's are Banes pointed out, they hopefully 729 00:41:12,760 --> 00:41:16,000 Speaker 1: will get the material that they've been promised this week 730 00:41:16,680 --> 00:41:19,839 Speaker 1: before the vote, and so you know, your assumption is 731 00:41:19,880 --> 00:41:23,120 Speaker 1: that it will satisfy them. Uh. If it doesn't, that's 732 00:41:23,160 --> 00:41:26,800 Speaker 1: another headache for the Biden administration. But but I gotta 733 00:41:26,840 --> 00:41:28,920 Speaker 1: believe that the Democrats are going to be able to 734 00:41:28,960 --> 00:41:31,239 Speaker 1: at least get the House vote on this. But it 735 00:41:31,320 --> 00:41:33,600 Speaker 1: kind of is a hollow victory because they still don't 736 00:41:33,600 --> 00:41:36,520 Speaker 1: have a deal with Mansion in cinema in the Senate. 737 00:41:36,640 --> 00:41:39,839 Speaker 1: That means that they could strand this in the House, uh, 738 00:41:39,880 --> 00:41:42,520 Speaker 1: and not even get to it in the Senate if 739 00:41:42,560 --> 00:41:44,440 Speaker 1: they don't think they have the votes to carry it. 740 00:41:44,520 --> 00:41:48,359 Speaker 1: And so, uh, while all that's happening, they have a 741 00:41:48,400 --> 00:41:50,719 Speaker 1: looming budget crisis where they're going to run out of 742 00:41:50,760 --> 00:41:53,920 Speaker 1: money in in December and in the dead ceiling. So 743 00:41:54,480 --> 00:41:57,000 Speaker 1: uh and and all this is happening on the week 744 00:41:57,000 --> 00:42:00,360 Speaker 1: of a summit. I mean, it's and and and shinner 745 00:42:00,440 --> 00:42:02,239 Speaker 1: massing on the border of view Crane. I don't want 746 00:42:02,280 --> 00:42:04,160 Speaker 1: to put too much on the table today, but like, 747 00:42:04,239 --> 00:42:06,480 Speaker 1: this is the world we live in today, it sure is. 748 00:42:06,600 --> 00:42:10,000 Speaker 1: And then there's Joe Manchin Jennie uh news today that 749 00:42:10,040 --> 00:42:13,600 Speaker 1: he will oppose President Biden's nominee for the f d 750 00:42:13,600 --> 00:42:16,400 Speaker 1: A is just the latest I don't know if you 751 00:42:16,520 --> 00:42:19,360 Speaker 1: call it. I won't even say it. It's just the 752 00:42:19,440 --> 00:42:22,319 Speaker 1: latest problem that he's giving for his party here. Does 753 00:42:22,360 --> 00:42:24,840 Speaker 1: this create more leverage for him the the f d 754 00:42:24,920 --> 00:42:28,520 Speaker 1: A commissioner post or does that just ruin the nomination 755 00:42:28,560 --> 00:42:32,600 Speaker 1: and make it less likely that Reconciliation bears any resemblance 756 00:42:32,640 --> 00:42:34,920 Speaker 1: to itself when it comes back from the Senate. I 757 00:42:35,000 --> 00:42:36,960 Speaker 1: don't think there was any hope that it was going 758 00:42:37,000 --> 00:42:39,400 Speaker 1: to bear any resemblance when it came back from the 759 00:42:39,440 --> 00:42:41,400 Speaker 1: Senate to begin with. And I do think you know, 760 00:42:41,440 --> 00:42:43,560 Speaker 1: you have to feel for Joe Biden, as he said 761 00:42:43,760 --> 00:42:46,560 Speaker 1: some weeks ago. With a fifty fifty split in the Senate, 762 00:42:46,560 --> 00:42:49,719 Speaker 1: you are facing basically fifty presidents and that is what 763 00:42:49,800 --> 00:42:52,320 Speaker 1: he is facing. Any one of them could veto anything 764 00:42:52,400 --> 00:42:55,800 Speaker 1: he says or does, and that's the reality of the situation. 765 00:42:56,040 --> 00:42:58,239 Speaker 1: Nobody has better equipped to handle that haven't been in 766 00:42:58,239 --> 00:43:00,520 Speaker 1: the Senate so long than Joe Biden. But it's not 767 00:43:00,600 --> 00:43:04,359 Speaker 1: easy for anybody to handle. And I do think um 768 00:43:04,400 --> 00:43:06,719 Speaker 1: as we look towards you know, we're what twenty one 769 00:43:06,800 --> 00:43:10,880 Speaker 1: days out before government funding expires. Um And in terms 770 00:43:10,880 --> 00:43:13,040 Speaker 1: of the debt ceiling, we still don't know where Mitch 771 00:43:13,080 --> 00:43:16,400 Speaker 1: McConnell is or Chuck Schumer. That Mitch McConnell seems to 772 00:43:16,400 --> 00:43:18,799 Speaker 1: still be insisting that Democrats are going to have to 773 00:43:18,800 --> 00:43:20,759 Speaker 1: go it alone. He's not going to line up a 774 00:43:20,840 --> 00:43:23,880 Speaker 1: vote for regular process. Schumer has given no indication if 775 00:43:23,920 --> 00:43:26,960 Speaker 1: he plans to change course and use our conciliation. And 776 00:43:27,239 --> 00:43:30,880 Speaker 1: we could be seeing some people are saying Congress in 777 00:43:30,960 --> 00:43:33,799 Speaker 1: on Christmas Eve, Christmas Day trying to honor some of 778 00:43:33,880 --> 00:43:36,320 Speaker 1: this out. That's how much they have on their agenda 779 00:43:36,560 --> 00:43:39,560 Speaker 1: in a very narrow three week time train Rick, what 780 00:43:39,600 --> 00:43:42,040 Speaker 1: do you think of Joe Manson's opposition to Robert Calef, 781 00:43:42,080 --> 00:43:44,560 Speaker 1: he served in the role of FDA Commissioner during the 782 00:43:44,560 --> 00:43:48,320 Speaker 1: Obama administration mansion, pointing to the opioid crisis cales ties 783 00:43:48,360 --> 00:43:52,520 Speaker 1: to the pharmaceutical business. Is the nomination dead? Yeah, I mean, 784 00:43:52,680 --> 00:43:54,719 Speaker 1: this is typically how it works in the Senate. Any 785 00:43:54,719 --> 00:43:58,200 Speaker 1: one person could spoil the nomination, and in this case, 786 00:43:58,320 --> 00:44:00,560 Speaker 1: but there's no negotiating around. This will long with everything 787 00:44:00,560 --> 00:44:02,440 Speaker 1: else that's in the air. Yeah, there's no reason for 788 00:44:02,520 --> 00:44:05,279 Speaker 1: him to stake this position out and then back off later, right, 789 00:44:05,280 --> 00:44:07,799 Speaker 1: I mean, there's no card to be played by the 790 00:44:07,800 --> 00:44:13,360 Speaker 1: Biden administration that can satisfy the nominees background. So, uh, 791 00:44:13,400 --> 00:44:18,120 Speaker 1: that goose is cooked in a Thanksgiving recipe. The gentleman 792 00:44:18,200 --> 00:44:23,160 Speaker 1: from West Virginia does it again, the working Thanksgiving apparently, 793 00:44:23,160 --> 00:44:25,880 Speaker 1: according to Genie and Christmas, my god Rick and Jeanie, 794 00:44:25,960 --> 00:44:28,319 Speaker 1: thank you as always delighted that you were here on 795 00:44:28,360 --> 00:44:31,239 Speaker 1: this Friday, along with the Ambassador and the Congressman. The 796 00:44:31,280 --> 00:44:35,440 Speaker 1: fastest hour in politics, traffic markets on the way. We'll 797 00:44:35,440 --> 00:44:37,480 Speaker 1: see you next week. This is Bloomberg