WEBVTT - James Alexander of The Bar-Kays Part 1

0:00:00.360 --> 0:00:07.440
<v Speaker 1>Quest Left Show is a production of iHeart Radio.

0:00:21.720 --> 0:00:24.560
<v Speaker 2>All Right, y'all, this is a big one. All right.

0:00:24.600 --> 0:00:27.800
<v Speaker 1>So every year doing Black History Month, we honor the

0:00:27.840 --> 0:00:32.960
<v Speaker 1>innovators and the cultural architects, and today is no different.

0:00:33.520 --> 0:00:36.879
<v Speaker 1>For the past six decades, I will say that our

0:00:37.000 --> 0:00:41.519
<v Speaker 1>guests has been an amazing, powerful force in music. Definitely

0:00:41.520 --> 0:00:45.680
<v Speaker 1>an influence in my life and how I hear things. Basically,

0:00:45.960 --> 0:00:52.760
<v Speaker 1>our guest is one of the musical delegates, the musical

0:00:52.800 --> 0:00:56.280
<v Speaker 1>forces from Memphis that we don't talk about enough.

0:00:56.640 --> 0:00:57.720
<v Speaker 2>We do not talk about.

0:00:57.760 --> 0:01:01.320
<v Speaker 1>Memphis is such a force of music that it rarely

0:01:01.360 --> 0:01:04.440
<v Speaker 1>gets the.

0:01:03.440 --> 0:01:04.720
<v Speaker 2>Light that it deserves.

0:01:05.360 --> 0:01:09.680
<v Speaker 1>And as a member of the legendary band the bar Kas,

0:01:10.160 --> 0:01:12.720
<v Speaker 1>you know, you know these songs from soul Finger to

0:01:13.600 --> 0:01:17.680
<v Speaker 1>Son of Shaft to Holy Ghosts, especially Holy Ghosts, which incidentally,

0:01:17.720 --> 0:01:21.040
<v Speaker 1>I think Holy ghost is one of the best examples

0:01:21.200 --> 0:01:25.120
<v Speaker 1>of giving the drummer some that excited an eight year

0:01:25.160 --> 0:01:28.199
<v Speaker 1>old questlove when he first heard that song. He's both

0:01:28.240 --> 0:01:31.240
<v Speaker 1>a member of the R and B, the Memphis Rock

0:01:31.280 --> 0:01:34.240
<v Speaker 1>and Roll Hall of Fame blending in and even then

0:01:34.319 --> 0:01:37.280
<v Speaker 1>that's reductive because if you listen to the early work

0:01:37.319 --> 0:01:41.960
<v Speaker 1>of their out like their level of rock excitement. It

0:01:42.080 --> 0:01:45.480
<v Speaker 1>was pretty much like no other band that you would

0:01:45.520 --> 0:01:49.720
<v Speaker 1>come across in that period of course, collaborating with legends

0:01:49.760 --> 0:01:55.240
<v Speaker 1>like the Great Otis Redding, with Isaac Hayes, touring the world,

0:01:55.640 --> 0:02:00.560
<v Speaker 1>spreading the funk. He's been mentioned in many aqls. So

0:02:00.560 --> 0:02:04.040
<v Speaker 1>shout out to Jimmy jam Hello, I want to welcome

0:02:04.760 --> 0:02:08.280
<v Speaker 1>the leader of the Barcads, James Alexander, to the Quest

0:02:08.320 --> 0:02:08.720
<v Speaker 1>Love Show.

0:02:08.760 --> 0:02:11.160
<v Speaker 2>Welcome, sir, how are you? What's going on? Man? How

0:02:11.200 --> 0:02:13.040
<v Speaker 2>are you? I had to stay up all night to

0:02:13.040 --> 0:02:13.720
<v Speaker 2>get here? Man?

0:02:14.080 --> 0:02:16.480
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I was gonna say I appreciate you. Right now

0:02:16.639 --> 0:02:22.200
<v Speaker 1>as we tape, New York is being threatened with as

0:02:22.240 --> 0:02:27.639
<v Speaker 1>I here describe something deeper than a Nor'easter, as they're

0:02:27.639 --> 0:02:30.400
<v Speaker 1>telling me. But yet you made it here on your own.

0:02:30.600 --> 0:02:33.080
<v Speaker 1>I know that we've been talking for the last couple

0:02:33.120 --> 0:02:35.880
<v Speaker 1>of years about you coming on the show, right again,

0:02:35.960 --> 0:02:38.480
<v Speaker 1>You've been mentioned a lot, and now the time has come,

0:02:39.040 --> 0:02:40.600
<v Speaker 1>and I thank you for coming here.

0:02:40.840 --> 0:02:44.560
<v Speaker 2>I sure, man. All right, So we're going to try

0:02:44.600 --> 0:02:46.360
<v Speaker 2>to get through your life from soup to nuts.

0:02:46.680 --> 0:02:50.040
<v Speaker 1>I do want what I call or derv So I

0:02:50.080 --> 0:02:55.120
<v Speaker 1>will start with this question of all of your barca.

0:02:54.880 --> 0:02:59.160
<v Speaker 2>Songs, which is your most favorite. That's a good one, now, dude,

0:03:00.760 --> 0:03:03.160
<v Speaker 2>I don't know. I mean, you know, well, your favorite

0:03:03.160 --> 0:03:05.959
<v Speaker 2>to play bass on, my favorite to play bass. So

0:03:06.200 --> 0:03:09.079
<v Speaker 2>would probably still be soul Fingers, believe it or not.

0:03:09.400 --> 0:03:13.040
<v Speaker 2>Soul Finger really yeah, I mean maybe you would understand this.

0:03:13.480 --> 0:03:17.280
<v Speaker 2>Soul Finger is just it's a song that's very near

0:03:17.360 --> 0:03:20.240
<v Speaker 2>and dear to me because in the process, you know,

0:03:20.520 --> 0:03:24.200
<v Speaker 2>groups sent tapes in to record comports and stuff or whatever.

0:03:24.840 --> 0:03:27.200
<v Speaker 2>But see, back in the day, we had to audition live.

0:03:28.000 --> 0:03:31.360
<v Speaker 2>So what happened is still be that way right now. Yeah,

0:03:31.960 --> 0:03:35.440
<v Speaker 2>so we were playing at a nightclub illegally of course,

0:03:35.480 --> 0:03:37.960
<v Speaker 2>because we were like, were underage. Yeah, how old were you?

0:03:38.120 --> 0:03:41.000
<v Speaker 2>Sixteen years old? Were they charting back then? For real?

0:03:41.080 --> 0:03:43.840
<v Speaker 2>For real? Yeah, of course they were charting like you

0:03:43.920 --> 0:03:46.000
<v Speaker 2>had to be over, Yeah, you had to be over.

0:03:46.480 --> 0:03:49.600
<v Speaker 2>And see, Memphis had the vice squad. The vice squad

0:03:49.760 --> 0:03:55.640
<v Speaker 2>is like it's like ice. Okay, of that. Musicians now

0:03:55.640 --> 0:03:57.920
<v Speaker 2>they come in Now they come in to a nightclub

0:03:57.960 --> 0:03:59.960
<v Speaker 2>and they check everybody in the nightclub. Check that out.

0:04:00.160 --> 0:04:03.240
<v Speaker 2>These if you're on the age, they didn't, they didn't

0:04:03.240 --> 0:04:05.120
<v Speaker 2>take you. The only thing now they need to take

0:04:05.160 --> 0:04:06.600
<v Speaker 2>you to jail. They just call your parents and tell

0:04:06.640 --> 0:04:09.280
<v Speaker 2>them to come pick your manners up and bring them home.

0:04:09.280 --> 0:04:13.040
<v Speaker 2>But anyway, okay, we're playing in this nightclub and we're

0:04:13.040 --> 0:04:15.200
<v Speaker 2>playing behind this guy by the name of Norman West

0:04:15.240 --> 0:04:18.039
<v Speaker 2>who's one of the members of the Soldierldren and we

0:04:18.160 --> 0:04:22.520
<v Speaker 2>planned a song by JJ Jackson call but it's all right.

0:04:23.720 --> 0:04:26.839
<v Speaker 2>So every night, now, mind you, you have to say

0:04:26.880 --> 0:04:29.760
<v Speaker 2>that we some youngsters. Every night we get to a

0:04:29.760 --> 0:04:32.880
<v Speaker 2>certain portion of the song and we do for a

0:04:32.960 --> 0:04:37.240
<v Speaker 2>lack of world or breakdown. But you know, sixteen years old,

0:04:37.240 --> 0:04:39.440
<v Speaker 2>we didn't know what he was doing, but we did

0:04:39.520 --> 0:04:41.640
<v Speaker 2>know this. We started looking around at each other and say,

0:04:42.120 --> 0:04:45.160
<v Speaker 2>oh damn, this is something here. So we remember that.

0:04:45.200 --> 0:04:47.040
<v Speaker 2>So we had to go on an audition that Stacks

0:04:47.120 --> 0:04:51.120
<v Speaker 2>Records and we auditioned Steve Crauffer was the A and

0:04:51.279 --> 0:04:56.119
<v Speaker 2>R guy. Okay, so we auditioned for him, and he said,

0:04:56.160 --> 0:04:59.320
<v Speaker 2>em I appreciate y'all coming up in an audition, but

0:04:59.360 --> 0:05:02.480
<v Speaker 2>you know, y'a just y'all don't quite have it. And

0:05:02.520 --> 0:05:05.880
<v Speaker 2>so you know, bust out a little bubble. Wait, I

0:05:05.920 --> 0:05:07.400
<v Speaker 2>tell you what, well, let you come back and do

0:05:07.440 --> 0:05:10.599
<v Speaker 2>it again. So we came back the second time. He

0:05:10.640 --> 0:05:15.280
<v Speaker 2>said no. But as we were leaving the second time,

0:05:15.760 --> 0:05:18.720
<v Speaker 2>a little short guy, little white guy by the name

0:05:18.760 --> 0:05:22.920
<v Speaker 2>of Jim Stewart. So he said, hey, man, what what's

0:05:22.960 --> 0:05:25.520
<v Speaker 2>going on here? I said, we just was up here auditions.

0:05:25.560 --> 0:05:28.920
<v Speaker 2>Who are y'all? We're just a little bad, he said,

0:05:28.960 --> 0:05:30.839
<v Speaker 2>I tell you what I saw everything that's been happening.

0:05:30.920 --> 0:05:33.400
<v Speaker 2>So with y'all come back up in audition for me.

0:05:34.240 --> 0:05:37.120
<v Speaker 2>Come on a Sunday. The studio is closed. Nobody be

0:05:37.160 --> 0:05:40.159
<v Speaker 2>here with me and y'all. So we came. So we

0:05:40.200 --> 0:05:42.440
<v Speaker 2>got to the studio and we started playing something. He said,

0:05:42.440 --> 0:05:46.440
<v Speaker 2>what is that? We don't I mean, well, man, we

0:05:46.480 --> 0:05:48.200
<v Speaker 2>don't know, we don't know what. We don't know what

0:05:48.240 --> 0:05:50.320
<v Speaker 2>the hell we're doing. We're just doing some shit. Okay,

0:05:50.440 --> 0:05:53.080
<v Speaker 2>you didn't name the songs or anything. We didn't.

0:05:53.279 --> 0:05:56.880
<v Speaker 1>Now, when you're auditioning, what's the repertoire? How long do

0:05:56.960 --> 0:05:58.920
<v Speaker 1>you have to make an impression? Is it one song,

0:05:59.000 --> 0:06:01.320
<v Speaker 1>two songs? Or for us, we.

0:06:01.279 --> 0:06:05.160
<v Speaker 2>Just played a little vibe. And because we had planned

0:06:05.200 --> 0:06:09.040
<v Speaker 2>this little vibe and the club every night, we said, shit,

0:06:09.080 --> 0:06:12.640
<v Speaker 2>we just started off with that little vibe. So he said,

0:06:12.960 --> 0:06:17.159
<v Speaker 2>what the hell is that? We don't know. But anyway,

0:06:17.320 --> 0:06:19.400
<v Speaker 2>he ran up in the control room. You know, it

0:06:19.440 --> 0:06:23.200
<v Speaker 2>wasn't no SSL, no leaves, nothing, a little boyed about

0:06:23.320 --> 0:06:25.479
<v Speaker 2>like this. You know. In fact, he had one of

0:06:25.520 --> 0:06:29.440
<v Speaker 2>the first four track scully tape machines, you know, thing

0:06:29.440 --> 0:06:33.080
<v Speaker 2>that the Beatles called Roger Peppers. Anyway, Yeah, he didn't

0:06:33.080 --> 0:06:34.839
<v Speaker 2>even have a talkback button, so he just gave us

0:06:34.880 --> 0:06:39.239
<v Speaker 2>a signal. She played from the top. Our trumpet player

0:06:39.240 --> 0:06:43.800
<v Speaker 2>came up with this little nursery rhyme horn line. But yeah,

0:06:44.680 --> 0:06:47.200
<v Speaker 2>and the drummer hit a break and it was on.

0:06:47.680 --> 0:06:50.800
<v Speaker 2>Then he said come up and listen to it. So

0:06:51.040 --> 0:06:55.480
<v Speaker 2>thirty minutes later we had soul finger. So that is

0:06:55.560 --> 0:06:59.640
<v Speaker 2>the definitive version of soul finger. That's it. Where did

0:06:59.680 --> 0:07:02.640
<v Speaker 2>the kids come from? A person that's been on your show?

0:07:03.680 --> 0:07:07.080
<v Speaker 2>It was his idea, David Porter. Really that was a

0:07:07.240 --> 0:07:11.000
<v Speaker 2>convenience store across the street from from Stacks. He went

0:07:11.040 --> 0:07:12.920
<v Speaker 2>over to the convenience store and got a case of

0:07:14.040 --> 0:07:17.680
<v Speaker 2>Coca colas, you know, the wooden case, twenty four balls

0:07:17.680 --> 0:07:19.520
<v Speaker 2>on the case. Oh god, don't tell me about to

0:07:19.520 --> 0:07:22.160
<v Speaker 2>pay off of Solda. We didn't even have a ball

0:07:22.240 --> 0:07:23.920
<v Speaker 2>open them. So what he told to do the guy

0:07:23.920 --> 0:07:27.080
<v Speaker 2>at the store just take the ball over it and

0:07:27.520 --> 0:07:34.880
<v Speaker 2>open it. So got the kids from the neighborhood, put

0:07:34.920 --> 0:07:37.880
<v Speaker 2>them around one mic and said I'm going to direct you.

0:07:37.960 --> 0:07:40.080
<v Speaker 2>So when I direct you, you say Soul Figure, right,

0:07:41.120 --> 0:07:43.080
<v Speaker 2>And that's how it came out. That's how it came about.

0:07:43.480 --> 0:07:46.360
<v Speaker 1>And you paid those kids in soda a soda ten

0:07:46.440 --> 0:07:49.320
<v Speaker 1>house Coca Cola. Okay, So I have a follow up

0:07:49.400 --> 0:07:52.480
<v Speaker 1>question for Soul Figure because I've had two other guests

0:07:52.520 --> 0:07:56.480
<v Speaker 1>on the show give their version of a song that

0:07:56.600 --> 0:08:01.320
<v Speaker 1>sort of sparked a controversial sit you and I'm speaking

0:08:01.360 --> 0:08:03.080
<v Speaker 1>of Ray Parker Jr.

0:08:03.400 --> 0:08:08.000
<v Speaker 2>And Huey Lewis. Now, this is all I'm saying. I

0:08:08.080 --> 0:08:09.400
<v Speaker 2>believe that the.

0:08:09.440 --> 0:08:14.600
<v Speaker 1>Story was when they were making Ghostbusters, they wanted Huey

0:08:14.720 --> 0:08:19.280
<v Speaker 1>Lewis's I Want a new drug in the movie somehow,

0:08:19.360 --> 0:08:22.160
<v Speaker 1>I guess whoever got the message to hue about this

0:08:22.240 --> 0:08:25.640
<v Speaker 1>movie whatever his Ghostbusters that sounds like dumb No. Rejected,

0:08:26.600 --> 0:08:28.840
<v Speaker 1>and then they came back again. You know, for real,

0:08:28.880 --> 0:08:32.520
<v Speaker 1>can you clear the song? He's like a ghost film

0:08:32.760 --> 0:08:33.560
<v Speaker 1>that sounds dumb.

0:08:33.760 --> 0:08:33.840
<v Speaker 2>No.

0:08:34.600 --> 0:08:36.800
<v Speaker 1>So they asked him, I think three or four times,

0:08:36.840 --> 0:08:39.920
<v Speaker 1>and he was like, adamantly, no, so then they gave

0:08:40.040 --> 0:08:41.400
<v Speaker 1>up went.

0:08:41.280 --> 0:08:42.240
<v Speaker 2>To Ray Parker Jr.

0:08:42.400 --> 0:08:45.079
<v Speaker 1>Now you know, and we're gonna get into this later.

0:08:45.559 --> 0:08:50.360
<v Speaker 1>I'm no stranger to derivative ideas. In other words, they

0:08:50.360 --> 0:08:53.360
<v Speaker 1>play a song, you listen to the song, then you

0:08:53.440 --> 0:08:55.680
<v Speaker 1>flip the song, and then it's a new song.

0:08:56.360 --> 0:08:59.400
<v Speaker 2>So I'm assuming that's what.

0:08:59.520 --> 0:09:03.840
<v Speaker 1>Ray Parker did, which was okay, well I'll make something

0:09:03.880 --> 0:09:05.920
<v Speaker 1>that's in the area close to it. And of course

0:09:06.040 --> 0:09:10.960
<v Speaker 1>Uey Lewis sued Ray Parker Jr. I think successfully, and

0:09:11.040 --> 0:09:13.240
<v Speaker 1>they never I think part of the clause was that

0:09:13.320 --> 0:09:16.400
<v Speaker 1>they were not allowed to talk about the case. But

0:09:16.480 --> 0:09:19.040
<v Speaker 1>obviously hue Lewis felt some sort of way that you know,

0:09:19.160 --> 0:09:23.400
<v Speaker 1>this song is my song. But when my dad and

0:09:23.440 --> 0:09:27.240
<v Speaker 1>I first heard Ghostbusters, my dad goes to the record

0:09:27.240 --> 0:09:29.880
<v Speaker 1>fleet says, that's nothing but an updated version of this,

0:09:30.000 --> 0:09:36.640
<v Speaker 1>and he plays me, Oh, she.

0:09:36.640 --> 0:09:42.400
<v Speaker 2>Should have told me that. You wait, my dear friend,

0:09:42.400 --> 0:09:43.520
<v Speaker 2>I didn't. I would do that.

0:09:43.559 --> 0:09:47.800
<v Speaker 1>So I'm just saying that when you heard Ghostbusters at

0:09:47.840 --> 0:09:54.679
<v Speaker 1>any time, did you say, hey, wait a minute, No, okay, sorry,

0:09:54.880 --> 0:09:56.640
<v Speaker 1>I wasn't trying to put you in That's all I

0:09:56.640 --> 0:09:58.520
<v Speaker 1>wanted to I would you know, I would do that.

0:09:58.520 --> 0:09:59.920
<v Speaker 2>The write no way, all right.

0:10:00.000 --> 0:10:02.200
<v Speaker 1>I want to know how music entered your life. What

0:10:02.320 --> 0:10:03.760
<v Speaker 1>was your first musical memory.

0:10:03.920 --> 0:10:09.080
<v Speaker 2>Well, in Memphis, there's a place called Handy Park downtown

0:10:09.120 --> 0:10:12.760
<v Speaker 2>on Bill Street. Unbeknowns to me, my mom took me

0:10:12.880 --> 0:10:15.080
<v Speaker 2>down on Bill Street to Handy Park. I had to

0:10:15.120 --> 0:10:17.079
<v Speaker 2>be I don't know, six or seven years old, I

0:10:17.120 --> 0:10:21.400
<v Speaker 2>can't remember exactly, but she took me downtown to Handy

0:10:21.440 --> 0:10:26.680
<v Speaker 2>Park to see bb King and Bobby Blue Bland and

0:10:26.760 --> 0:10:31.280
<v Speaker 2>they had taken two flatbed trucks, backed them together and

0:10:31.320 --> 0:10:34.360
<v Speaker 2>made a stage out of it. That was my first

0:10:34.720 --> 0:10:38.800
<v Speaker 2>recollection of the music. Well, what happened that particular day,

0:10:39.160 --> 0:10:43.720
<v Speaker 2>unbeknowns to me, it kind of got into my DNA.

0:10:44.040 --> 0:10:47.800
<v Speaker 2>I didn't know it at the time, but you know,

0:10:48.000 --> 0:10:51.360
<v Speaker 2>I took a liking too, the whole scene, the whole thing,

0:10:51.600 --> 0:10:55.120
<v Speaker 2>the whole music thing. It didn't hurt that my brother

0:10:55.280 --> 0:10:58.800
<v Speaker 2>was a big jazz buff, not a musician or anything

0:10:58.840 --> 0:11:01.560
<v Speaker 2>like that, but just collecting definitely, you know, Cold Trane,

0:11:01.600 --> 0:11:05.400
<v Speaker 2>Miles Davis, they lonely just monk all of that stuff.

0:11:05.480 --> 0:11:08.840
<v Speaker 2>Paul Chambers, which, yeah, all of that stuff.

0:11:09.040 --> 0:11:13.199
<v Speaker 1>So you're growing up in a city that also has

0:11:13.280 --> 0:11:19.679
<v Speaker 1>given us Aretha Franklin, Marie White, Carl Perkins, Jerry Lee Lewis,

0:11:19.720 --> 0:11:21.000
<v Speaker 1>Johnny Cash, Elvis.

0:11:20.720 --> 0:11:22.559
<v Speaker 2>Presley, Al Green.

0:11:23.040 --> 0:11:30.120
<v Speaker 1>Even in the musical ecosystem, are you running into an

0:11:30.200 --> 0:11:34.360
<v Speaker 1>unknown David Porter and unknown Isaac Hayes, like talk about

0:11:34.400 --> 0:11:38.240
<v Speaker 1>just the ecosystem of Memphis, Like how small is the

0:11:38.240 --> 0:11:42.360
<v Speaker 1>city in terms of it's musical community, And who were

0:11:42.440 --> 0:11:47.360
<v Speaker 1>you sort of socially interacting with before you became an artist, Like,

0:11:47.520 --> 0:11:49.680
<v Speaker 1>oh yeah, I knew that when we were twelve years

0:11:49.679 --> 0:11:50.760
<v Speaker 1>old in the same school.

0:11:51.160 --> 0:11:53.600
<v Speaker 2>Well, I was in the marching band. I was in

0:11:53.679 --> 0:11:56.440
<v Speaker 2>the you start in junior high school, I was in

0:11:56.480 --> 0:11:59.480
<v Speaker 2>the marching band. You're not gonna believe this. I always

0:11:59.520 --> 0:12:04.760
<v Speaker 2>wanted to play drums. But what happened is I went

0:12:04.800 --> 0:12:08.320
<v Speaker 2>to the band room and the band director said, you know,

0:12:08.360 --> 0:12:11.880
<v Speaker 2>I want you to stand up state your navy James Alexander.

0:12:12.559 --> 0:12:15.240
<v Speaker 2>What do you want to play? I want to play drums.

0:12:15.240 --> 0:12:18.600
<v Speaker 2>I have my drum sticks and everything right. He said, well,

0:12:18.840 --> 0:12:21.440
<v Speaker 2>I'm sorry, we don't need any more drummers, but we

0:12:21.480 --> 0:12:24.480
<v Speaker 2>have over there for tuba players. And I said, oh shit,

0:12:25.559 --> 0:12:30.120
<v Speaker 2>tuba players because back then they didn't have the fiberglass tubers.

0:12:30.400 --> 0:12:34.400
<v Speaker 2>All the tubes were metal. Okay, okay, but I wanted

0:12:34.400 --> 0:12:37.480
<v Speaker 2>to be in the band so bad, so I said, shit,

0:12:37.640 --> 0:12:39.079
<v Speaker 2>I mean, you know, this looks like this is my

0:12:39.160 --> 0:12:42.920
<v Speaker 2>only shot. So started out with the tuba. So with

0:12:43.040 --> 0:12:47.120
<v Speaker 2>the tuba, you know, he suggested that I take the

0:12:47.160 --> 0:12:49.280
<v Speaker 2>tuber home, you know, so I could learn how to

0:12:49.280 --> 0:12:53.240
<v Speaker 2>play it. So, but the bell was so big. You know,

0:12:53.280 --> 0:12:56.120
<v Speaker 2>the bus that I used to ride home, the bell

0:12:56.160 --> 0:12:58.480
<v Speaker 2>couldn't fit inside the bus. So I had to walk

0:12:58.480 --> 0:13:01.480
<v Speaker 2>home with the tuba heavy ones. It took me about

0:13:01.480 --> 0:13:05.720
<v Speaker 2>maybe thirty minutes to walk home. But all walking home,

0:13:06.240 --> 0:13:09.959
<v Speaker 2>you know this big tuba. You know, kids and stuff

0:13:10.000 --> 0:13:12.600
<v Speaker 2>throwing paper all up in the barrel of the Tubuh

0:13:12.720 --> 0:13:15.360
<v Speaker 2>you got that big ass yeah tuba and all of that.

0:13:15.440 --> 0:13:18.600
<v Speaker 1>You didn't have a case. There were no tu ks, No,

0:13:18.640 --> 0:13:20.680
<v Speaker 1>it was no tube case. You just had to carry it.

0:13:21.120 --> 0:13:23.800
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. Like I'm at a parade and I'm just walking

0:13:24.040 --> 0:13:27.960
<v Speaker 2>by myself, so you know, with some friends they throwing paper. Anyway,

0:13:28.679 --> 0:13:30.240
<v Speaker 2>That's how I had to get the tuber home. And

0:13:30.240 --> 0:13:32.280
<v Speaker 2>then when I get it home, you know, my brother,

0:13:32.400 --> 0:13:35.080
<v Speaker 2>which was like seventeen years older than me, I'm trying

0:13:35.120 --> 0:13:38.280
<v Speaker 2>to learn how to play the tube to him. It

0:13:38.400 --> 0:13:41.160
<v Speaker 2>sounded horrible. Cut that cut that rag, it out, cut

0:13:41.200 --> 0:13:44.200
<v Speaker 2>all that noise out. But you know, I just I

0:13:44.440 --> 0:13:47.080
<v Speaker 2>kept at it when I was playing football too, I mean,

0:13:48.040 --> 0:13:51.480
<v Speaker 2>and I kept at the tuba, and I started getting,

0:13:51.800 --> 0:13:54.480
<v Speaker 2>you know, pretty good at it. And then they had

0:13:54.520 --> 0:13:56.720
<v Speaker 2>a thing in West Tennessee called if if you do

0:13:56.800 --> 0:13:59.920
<v Speaker 2>good in West Tennessee, you get invited to bail my

0:14:00.200 --> 0:14:02.400
<v Speaker 2>School of Music, which or people are the School of

0:14:02.440 --> 0:14:06.160
<v Speaker 2>Music which now is part of Vanderbilt, to study, you know,

0:14:06.240 --> 0:14:08.360
<v Speaker 2>with some other kids. So there were only two black

0:14:08.440 --> 0:14:11.920
<v Speaker 2>kids from West Tennessee to go to Nashville and study,

0:14:12.080 --> 0:14:14.559
<v Speaker 2>you know with all of the kids from all over Tennessee.

0:14:15.200 --> 0:14:17.960
<v Speaker 2>Me and another guy. He played two also, we were

0:14:18.000 --> 0:14:21.160
<v Speaker 2>the only black kids in the whole state for the

0:14:21.240 --> 0:14:24.840
<v Speaker 2>music summer camp. And by then I had master the

0:14:24.960 --> 0:14:28.400
<v Speaker 2>tuba and all of that, and some kind of way

0:14:29.520 --> 0:14:34.560
<v Speaker 2>I got interested in base. So I started out on upright. Okay,

0:14:34.840 --> 0:14:37.440
<v Speaker 2>one of my teachers that bought her son an upright

0:14:38.040 --> 0:14:39.720
<v Speaker 2>and she came to me one day and she said,

0:14:40.280 --> 0:14:42.960
<v Speaker 2>you know, how about this upright for my son. He's

0:14:43.000 --> 0:14:45.280
<v Speaker 2>not going to get into it. Do you want it?

0:14:45.600 --> 0:14:49.480
<v Speaker 2>I said, sure, So she just gave it to me. Now,

0:14:49.520 --> 0:14:53.400
<v Speaker 2>mind you that particular upright right now, it's worth about

0:14:53.440 --> 0:14:56.800
<v Speaker 2>eight grand. She probably paid maybe four or five hundred

0:14:56.800 --> 0:14:59.920
<v Speaker 2>dollars for it. But it's a blonde German made upright day,

0:15:00.720 --> 0:15:04.800
<v Speaker 2>you know with the lfo's, I mean beautiful. This This

0:15:04.880 --> 0:15:08.520
<v Speaker 2>is a backstory to that. Y'all don't know who you

0:15:08.520 --> 0:15:12.280
<v Speaker 2>want to be telling you. The backstory is I stayed

0:15:12.320 --> 0:15:14.800
<v Speaker 2>at home with my parents, and by this time, you know,

0:15:14.800 --> 0:15:16.760
<v Speaker 2>I was going in and out of town. It was

0:15:16.800 --> 0:15:18.880
<v Speaker 2>set up in the dining room on the you know

0:15:18.920 --> 0:15:22.080
<v Speaker 2>what's on the stand. So I come home one day,

0:15:23.200 --> 0:15:26.480
<v Speaker 2>where's my base? I mean asking my brother, right, I

0:15:26.480 --> 0:15:30.080
<v Speaker 2>don't know? I said, Man, where's my base? I said,

0:15:30.080 --> 0:15:32.600
<v Speaker 2>you just sits in that corner right there, and he

0:15:32.680 --> 0:15:35.360
<v Speaker 2>kep saying I don't know. So I had to go

0:15:35.600 --> 0:15:40.480
<v Speaker 2>south of Memphis on him. Where's my email base? Okay,

0:15:41.240 --> 0:15:45.240
<v Speaker 2>where's my base? Oh? Man? Oh man? You know I

0:15:45.280 --> 0:15:48.040
<v Speaker 2>forgot to tell you? Man. Uh I took it to

0:15:48.080 --> 0:15:51.480
<v Speaker 2>the pawn shop, man, and uh, I said, man, what

0:15:51.600 --> 0:15:54.120
<v Speaker 2>let's call the pawn shop right now? Of course, cause

0:15:54.120 --> 0:15:56.000
<v Speaker 2>you know with pawn shop, if you don't pay on

0:15:56.000 --> 0:15:58.960
<v Speaker 2>your instrument, you know, in a certain time they'll sell it.

0:16:00.120 --> 0:16:05.480
<v Speaker 2>So we called they had sold my base, like seven

0:16:05.560 --> 0:16:08.520
<v Speaker 2>hundred dollars or some shit like that. Man, I was

0:16:08.560 --> 0:16:11.160
<v Speaker 2>ready to I was actually was ready to kill my

0:16:11.240 --> 0:16:14.680
<v Speaker 2>own brother. Why did he do that? Unbeitniced to me

0:16:15.400 --> 0:16:18.000
<v Speaker 2>he had a gambling problem. You know, I don't know

0:16:18.040 --> 0:16:20.040
<v Speaker 2>if you know anything about Memphs. You know across the

0:16:20.040 --> 0:16:21.920
<v Speaker 2>bridge or in West Wemster they have the dog track

0:16:22.440 --> 0:16:25.720
<v Speaker 2>back then the dog track, you know, so you know

0:16:25.800 --> 0:16:28.320
<v Speaker 2>they had this big book you play the dogs every night.

0:16:28.920 --> 0:16:31.280
<v Speaker 2>He was going to the dog track every day, you know,

0:16:31.360 --> 0:16:34.920
<v Speaker 2>trying to hit and you know, got into a jam

0:16:35.920 --> 0:16:38.720
<v Speaker 2>part of my base. So I was rather kill him,

0:16:39.680 --> 0:16:41.600
<v Speaker 2>but I was. I was hurt more than anything. So

0:16:41.800 --> 0:16:44.440
<v Speaker 2>just you know, I started crying and shit, and you

0:16:44.440 --> 0:16:47.840
<v Speaker 2>know I was hurt. You know, I said, wait, manute,

0:16:47.880 --> 0:16:49.480
<v Speaker 2>you know we got to do this. So before he

0:16:49.520 --> 0:16:52.000
<v Speaker 2>passed away, you know, we kind of like kissed the

0:16:52.080 --> 0:16:55.560
<v Speaker 2>maid up. I said, you know this is a lifelong beef,

0:16:55.680 --> 0:17:00.560
<v Speaker 2>this is yeah. That was yeah, oh man. Yeah, my

0:17:00.680 --> 0:17:04.760
<v Speaker 2>dad went to a pawnshop. My dad worked at a

0:17:04.840 --> 0:17:08.080
<v Speaker 2>place called Firestone. If you don't anythink about Memphis, if

0:17:08.080 --> 0:17:12.919
<v Speaker 2>you work at Firestone International Harvester, all those places. You know,

0:17:13.520 --> 0:17:16.760
<v Speaker 2>that's a good job. So, unbeknownst to me, my dad

0:17:16.800 --> 0:17:20.080
<v Speaker 2>went to this pawn shop and put a harmony base

0:17:20.960 --> 0:17:26.879
<v Speaker 2>and amplify in the Layoway. So I didn't know that

0:17:27.000 --> 0:17:31.320
<v Speaker 2>he was doing that, and he didn't tell me about

0:17:31.359 --> 0:17:34.600
<v Speaker 2>it until he went to get it out. So he said,

0:17:35.000 --> 0:17:38.240
<v Speaker 2>come on, want you to rat somewhere with me, And

0:17:38.760 --> 0:17:40.720
<v Speaker 2>he took me down there and he got it out.

0:17:41.480 --> 0:17:44.160
<v Speaker 2>I think the whole base and the app I think

0:17:44.280 --> 0:17:47.200
<v Speaker 2>was about it wasn't even two hundred dollars. I still

0:17:47.240 --> 0:17:51.120
<v Speaker 2>got the base, but the amp called foul one night

0:17:51.320 --> 0:18:07.520
<v Speaker 2>got you got what Jimmy Hendracy.

0:18:07.600 --> 0:18:14.439
<v Speaker 1>Okay, So me starting elementary school in the seventies, I

0:18:14.480 --> 0:18:18.240
<v Speaker 1>grew up in a time period where if you were

0:18:18.840 --> 0:18:22.600
<v Speaker 1>a specialty student, then your parents sent you to like

0:18:22.760 --> 0:18:23.879
<v Speaker 1>music school whatever.

0:18:24.720 --> 0:18:25.960
<v Speaker 2>But you know, later I.

0:18:25.920 --> 0:18:29.080
<v Speaker 1>Found out that in the late sixties, especially with like

0:18:29.080 --> 0:18:33.120
<v Speaker 1>the Nixon administration, they started taking like music programs out

0:18:33.119 --> 0:18:37.439
<v Speaker 1>of school. But basically, to hear you say it is

0:18:37.480 --> 0:18:42.800
<v Speaker 1>it almost as common as lunch period. If you're in school,

0:18:44.359 --> 0:18:48.560
<v Speaker 1>whether you have natural music talent or not, you're gonna

0:18:48.600 --> 0:18:51.639
<v Speaker 1>learn an instrument and you will eventually catch it on

0:18:51.720 --> 0:18:52.040
<v Speaker 1>to it.

0:18:53.280 --> 0:18:56.880
<v Speaker 2>That was mostly the case, But it's all about the interest.

0:18:57.720 --> 0:19:00.960
<v Speaker 2>What happened is back in those days, believe it or not,

0:19:01.040 --> 0:19:03.760
<v Speaker 2>we had, for lack of a better word, we had mentors.

0:19:04.400 --> 0:19:06.800
<v Speaker 2>So if, like our band director, if he saw you

0:19:06.840 --> 0:19:10.040
<v Speaker 2>had a interest, a lot of times didn't have to

0:19:10.040 --> 0:19:12.800
<v Speaker 2>show that much interest, but if he thought you, you know,

0:19:12.920 --> 0:19:15.159
<v Speaker 2>wanted to do something, they would kind of help you

0:19:15.240 --> 0:19:18.679
<v Speaker 2>facilitate get you on track to doing it. And so

0:19:19.400 --> 0:19:23.880
<v Speaker 2>fortunately my band director, my first band director, he kind

0:19:23.880 --> 0:19:26.960
<v Speaker 2>of like took an interest in it, and you know,

0:19:28.320 --> 0:19:30.720
<v Speaker 2>we'd have a regular band practice, you know where you

0:19:30.840 --> 0:19:33.919
<v Speaker 2>learned your scales and all of that stuff like that,

0:19:34.000 --> 0:19:37.760
<v Speaker 2>and then we would have after the band practice practice,

0:19:38.040 --> 0:19:40.480
<v Speaker 2>you know where you just learned some other stuff. So

0:19:41.320 --> 0:19:44.120
<v Speaker 2>that was just the whole big thing. And I'm grateful

0:19:44.160 --> 0:19:49.120
<v Speaker 2>to grow up around a lot of talented folks. You

0:19:49.800 --> 0:19:52.359
<v Speaker 2>was Bill Street for a tourist or was that? Was

0:19:52.400 --> 0:19:54.639
<v Speaker 2>it for real? Well? When I came up, Bill Street

0:19:54.680 --> 0:19:59.800
<v Speaker 2>was more like you know, prostitution, you know, drugs and music.

0:20:00.880 --> 0:20:03.160
<v Speaker 2>There was a club in the Bill Street area called

0:20:03.200 --> 0:20:08.320
<v Speaker 2>Club Handy. It was run by Sunbeam Mitchell. Sunbeam Mitchell

0:20:08.359 --> 0:20:11.200
<v Speaker 2>had a club and then he had in his club,

0:20:11.240 --> 0:20:14.280
<v Speaker 2>he had like five or six rooms. So when musicians

0:20:14.280 --> 0:20:17.160
<v Speaker 2>come through, there was not I mean, you know, people

0:20:17.240 --> 0:20:23.520
<v Speaker 2>have to understand the Memphis. Memphis were very segregated back

0:20:23.520 --> 0:20:25.360
<v Speaker 2>in those days. I mean, you know, you couldn't even

0:20:25.440 --> 0:20:29.880
<v Speaker 2>stay in certain hotels. You couldn't drink at certain water fountains.

0:20:29.920 --> 0:20:34.160
<v Speaker 2>I mean you got white water fountains, the colored water fountains.

0:20:34.400 --> 0:20:38.040
<v Speaker 2>But Sunbeam provided when musicians come through, you know, some

0:20:38.080 --> 0:20:41.080
<v Speaker 2>of the some of the greats, he would provide them

0:20:41.440 --> 0:20:46.320
<v Speaker 2>a room and uh, you know, in a bowl of chili. Okay. Yeah,

0:20:47.000 --> 0:20:50.000
<v Speaker 2>So with people coming through and all that stuff like that,

0:20:50.119 --> 0:20:53.679
<v Speaker 2>you know, and you aspiring to be in the music business,

0:20:53.760 --> 0:20:56.160
<v Speaker 2>or you go and try to meet some of these people,

0:20:56.200 --> 0:20:56.720
<v Speaker 2>you know what I mean.

0:20:57.680 --> 0:21:02.359
<v Speaker 1>I want to know where you enter the Barcads. So

0:21:02.440 --> 0:21:04.320
<v Speaker 1>they started in sixty two, did they not?

0:21:04.560 --> 0:21:10.240
<v Speaker 2>The Barcas started around sixty sixty, Yeah, around that time,

0:21:10.359 --> 0:21:12.560
<v Speaker 2>sixty two sixty three, somewhere in there. Okay.

0:21:13.000 --> 0:21:17.320
<v Speaker 1>Now, I was always under the impression because I would

0:21:17.320 --> 0:21:22.120
<v Speaker 1>also see credits on Stax records for the Marquis. So

0:21:22.200 --> 0:21:24.480
<v Speaker 1>for some reason I always thought that you guys started

0:21:24.520 --> 0:21:27.639
<v Speaker 1>off that first, and men sort of morphed into the

0:21:27.680 --> 0:21:30.680
<v Speaker 1>bar case. But were the Marquees a whole the whole

0:21:30.720 --> 0:21:33.159
<v Speaker 1>other group. Okay, so it had nothing to do They

0:21:33.160 --> 0:21:35.560
<v Speaker 1>had nothing to do with the Barcas, Okay, got it.

0:21:35.760 --> 0:21:39.800
<v Speaker 2>The Barcas was a group that some guys from several

0:21:39.880 --> 0:21:45.199
<v Speaker 2>different high schools that started emerging. Actually, the drummer that

0:21:45.240 --> 0:21:47.960
<v Speaker 2>played in the band with me it started the group.

0:21:48.000 --> 0:21:51.080
<v Speaker 2>It wasn't called the Barcades at that point. They used

0:21:51.119 --> 0:21:55.639
<v Speaker 2>to rehearse every Saturday. What happened was the bass player

0:21:56.000 --> 0:21:59.400
<v Speaker 2>for them at that particular point, he could play bass,

0:21:59.800 --> 0:22:03.879
<v Speaker 2>but he didn't own a bass. Oh so James Alexander

0:22:03.920 --> 0:22:07.520
<v Speaker 2>owned the base cause my dad had bought me a base. Remember,

0:22:08.440 --> 0:22:11.280
<v Speaker 2>so I used to ride my bike to their rehearsal

0:22:11.359 --> 0:22:14.760
<v Speaker 2>every Saturday so he could use my bass so that

0:22:14.920 --> 0:22:18.080
<v Speaker 2>they could rehearse. This one particular said that I rode

0:22:18.080 --> 0:22:25.080
<v Speaker 2>to their rehearsal okay, and he wasn't there. So they said, hey, man,

0:22:25.200 --> 0:22:27.920
<v Speaker 2>were ready to start this rehearsal. Basically us not here.

0:22:28.640 --> 0:22:32.520
<v Speaker 2>So who's gonna play bass? They said, you? I said,

0:22:32.520 --> 0:22:35.800
<v Speaker 2>but there's one problem. They said, what's the problem? I

0:22:35.840 --> 0:22:39.399
<v Speaker 2>can't play and so the guitar player said, well, you

0:22:39.440 --> 0:22:42.480
<v Speaker 2>know what, I'll show you enough to, you know, to

0:22:42.480 --> 0:22:44.879
<v Speaker 2>get through rehearsals. You know what I mean to be

0:22:44.920 --> 0:22:47.880
<v Speaker 2>quite unrest I was fucking up bad, but he said,

0:22:48.160 --> 0:22:49.119
<v Speaker 2>we're gonna get you through this.

0:22:49.520 --> 0:22:54.640
<v Speaker 1>Stylistically, how jarringly different was adjusting to electric bass as

0:22:54.640 --> 0:22:56.000
<v Speaker 1>opposed to the upright base.

0:22:56.600 --> 0:23:00.480
<v Speaker 2>A lot of adjustment for me because my instruction always

0:23:00.480 --> 0:23:02.679
<v Speaker 2>would tell me, you know, he had this thing you

0:23:02.840 --> 0:23:06.080
<v Speaker 2>hit hit me on my knuckles because I didn't. I wasn't.

0:23:06.119 --> 0:23:10.240
<v Speaker 2>I wasn't doing my technique correctly. The fingering, the finger

0:23:10.280 --> 0:23:12.159
<v Speaker 2>I wasn't doing none of that right. But you know,

0:23:12.200 --> 0:23:14.640
<v Speaker 2>I just had to do it however I could do it.

0:23:14.640 --> 0:23:15.600
<v Speaker 2>It was a big difference.

0:23:16.280 --> 0:23:18.680
<v Speaker 1>Now that you are getting an interest in the base,

0:23:19.400 --> 0:23:22.679
<v Speaker 1>who are you listening to? Who you trying to pattern

0:23:22.720 --> 0:23:23.520
<v Speaker 1>yourself after?

0:23:24.600 --> 0:23:28.399
<v Speaker 2>I was basically listening to the radio, and at an

0:23:28.480 --> 0:23:32.760
<v Speaker 2>early age up nonst with my parents, I started slipping

0:23:32.800 --> 0:23:36.800
<v Speaker 2>in clubs, slipping in clubs, and there was a guy

0:23:36.920 --> 0:23:41.399
<v Speaker 2>by the name of a Cleave Shields, better known as Frog.

0:23:42.119 --> 0:23:46.639
<v Speaker 2>He played with a band called Jean Bowlex Miller. I

0:23:46.720 --> 0:23:49.840
<v Speaker 2>was listening to him. I was listening to another guy

0:23:49.880 --> 0:23:53.760
<v Speaker 2>by the name of Robert McGee who played upright, and

0:23:53.760 --> 0:23:56.359
<v Speaker 2>I ended up taking some bass lessons from him. Those

0:23:56.359 --> 0:23:59.240
<v Speaker 2>are the two guys I was listening to and when

0:23:59.280 --> 0:24:01.720
<v Speaker 2>I started to learn how to play a little bit.

0:24:01.920 --> 0:24:06.359
<v Speaker 2>Robert McGee. They had a thing in Memphis called Blue Monday. Okay,

0:24:07.000 --> 0:24:10.680
<v Speaker 2>and Robert McGee is I mean it was a great

0:24:10.760 --> 0:24:13.840
<v Speaker 2>bass player. But he would go to sleep on stage

0:24:14.440 --> 0:24:17.679
<v Speaker 2>while playing. I mean he's still playing. He goes to

0:24:17.680 --> 0:24:23.639
<v Speaker 2>sleep so heavy moonshine or something. So, so what happened

0:24:23.800 --> 0:24:26.680
<v Speaker 2>is he said, I got I got an ideal. Man.

0:24:27.280 --> 0:24:29.600
<v Speaker 2>You know, it was a four hour gig, right, So

0:24:29.960 --> 0:24:32.200
<v Speaker 2>he would play the first part of it, and then

0:24:32.280 --> 0:24:34.320
<v Speaker 2>he said, man, once you come and then you know,

0:24:34.760 --> 0:24:37.760
<v Speaker 2>I'm gonna work you in. And you played the second part.

0:24:38.040 --> 0:24:43.679
<v Speaker 2>So the band was Ben Branch, Ben Branch, Yes, Ben Branch,

0:24:43.960 --> 0:24:47.439
<v Speaker 2>the Ben Branch off versing push, yes, Jack, all of that.

0:24:47.560 --> 0:24:50.639
<v Speaker 2>The last person that spoke to you before. He So

0:24:50.880 --> 0:24:53.920
<v Speaker 2>they had a Monday night thing every Monday night, and

0:24:53.600 --> 0:24:56.720
<v Speaker 2>he was playing the base and then he played the

0:24:56.760 --> 0:24:58.760
<v Speaker 2>first half that I come in and play the second half.

0:24:58.920 --> 0:25:02.959
<v Speaker 2>The band was fine with like no, no, no, no,

0:25:03.160 --> 0:25:05.520
<v Speaker 2>not really, but he said, he said, hey, I'm leaving.

0:25:05.560 --> 0:25:06.120
<v Speaker 2>I got to go to.

0:25:06.080 --> 0:25:09.479
<v Speaker 1>Sleep, because he go to sleep on stage messing up.

0:25:09.640 --> 0:25:12.160
<v Speaker 1>Was it because he was working all day or.

0:25:12.240 --> 0:25:14.160
<v Speaker 2>Yes, because he was a band director in the daytime

0:25:14.680 --> 0:25:16.760
<v Speaker 2>and then you know, playing gigs at night and stuff

0:25:17.359 --> 0:25:19.439
<v Speaker 2>in a school teacher too, so on top of all

0:25:19.440 --> 0:25:22.399
<v Speaker 2>of them, so he was tired. So what happened is

0:25:23.640 --> 0:25:27.480
<v Speaker 2>one of my first experiences being Brunch called out a song.

0:25:27.560 --> 0:25:33.240
<v Speaker 2>He said, start us five flats one two, five flats five,

0:25:34.160 --> 0:25:36.880
<v Speaker 2>five flats. I know it's D flat, but I said

0:25:36.920 --> 0:25:40.160
<v Speaker 2>what man, You know, I didn't know what the hell

0:25:40.200 --> 0:25:42.840
<v Speaker 2>to do, you know what I'm saying. But one thing

0:25:42.920 --> 0:25:49.560
<v Speaker 2>that I learned early on in my teachings, especially the

0:25:49.600 --> 0:25:52.399
<v Speaker 2>bass player. He said, man, look, if you don't know

0:25:52.480 --> 0:25:57.400
<v Speaker 2>a song, stand close to the keyboard player and watch

0:25:57.480 --> 0:26:02.240
<v Speaker 2>his left hand, and you were probably you know, you

0:26:02.280 --> 0:26:04.239
<v Speaker 2>would learn the changes and all that stuff like that.

0:26:04.320 --> 0:26:07.000
<v Speaker 2>And I did it. So I fumbled through it, but

0:26:07.080 --> 0:26:10.320
<v Speaker 2>I got through it. And then he right after that,

0:26:10.440 --> 0:26:12.520
<v Speaker 2>he called sat the doll. I said, oh my god,

0:26:13.840 --> 0:26:16.000
<v Speaker 2>I mean, you know, all right, you got the one song.

0:26:16.119 --> 0:26:18.560
<v Speaker 2>Now I got to do this. I mean, you know,

0:26:18.760 --> 0:26:20.600
<v Speaker 2>I thought there's a go play some twelve bar blues

0:26:20.640 --> 0:26:22.400
<v Speaker 2>and stuff like that. I could get through that, right,

0:26:22.440 --> 0:26:24.680
<v Speaker 2>but they playing standards, you know what I mean.

0:26:24.520 --> 0:26:26.720
<v Speaker 1>So you jump right into the lake of jazz, not

0:26:26.760 --> 0:26:28.760
<v Speaker 1>blue all of that. Yeah, all of that.

0:26:28.920 --> 0:26:32.720
<v Speaker 2>So I mean, you know, and I'm happy to say

0:26:32.760 --> 0:26:35.080
<v Speaker 2>that gradually I started getting a little better at it. Well,

0:26:35.119 --> 0:26:40.719
<v Speaker 2>I was gonna say, you stood in a Bark's rehearsal

0:26:41.240 --> 0:26:44.600
<v Speaker 2>because the other bass player wasn't there, but right, you

0:26:44.640 --> 0:26:49.200
<v Speaker 2>are still a Bark. So what happened to that other

0:26:49.240 --> 0:26:53.760
<v Speaker 2>bass player? Like he just he just know. What happened

0:26:53.840 --> 0:26:57.040
<v Speaker 2>is the last time I went to the rehearsal and

0:26:57.160 --> 0:27:00.480
<v Speaker 2>brought my bass because because I'm used to bringing my

0:27:00.520 --> 0:27:03.280
<v Speaker 2>bass to the rehearsal, opened the case up, tuning it

0:27:03.359 --> 0:27:05.240
<v Speaker 2>up and giving it to him so they could start

0:27:05.280 --> 0:27:08.320
<v Speaker 2>the rehearsal so you could tune it. So you were

0:27:08.359 --> 0:27:08.720
<v Speaker 2>a tech.

0:27:08.920 --> 0:27:11.160
<v Speaker 1>You were a bass tech technical what we would call

0:27:11.160 --> 0:27:14.879
<v Speaker 1>it bass tech now, Like yeah, I mean, but I mean,

0:27:14.960 --> 0:27:16.280
<v Speaker 1>let's be, let's be I went.

0:27:16.320 --> 0:27:18.879
<v Speaker 2>Tuning it up that good because it was it was

0:27:18.920 --> 0:27:21.520
<v Speaker 2>still not all the way into him. But anyway, so

0:27:22.520 --> 0:27:25.040
<v Speaker 2>what happened is I'm gonna give the bass player of

0:27:25.119 --> 0:27:29.600
<v Speaker 2>my bass right, and they the guys, man, what are

0:27:29.600 --> 0:27:32.960
<v Speaker 2>you doing? I said, I'm giving so y'all can start rehearsal.

0:27:34.040 --> 0:27:37.439
<v Speaker 2>They said, well, guess what. I said, what he's not

0:27:37.520 --> 0:27:40.439
<v Speaker 2>the bass player anymore? Well, who is the bass player?

0:27:40.520 --> 0:27:44.439
<v Speaker 2>They said, you? I said, but there's one thing that

0:27:44.560 --> 0:27:47.720
<v Speaker 2>y'all should know, and they said what is that? I

0:27:49.320 --> 0:27:52.040
<v Speaker 2>got it. And so the guitar player, I mean the

0:27:52.080 --> 0:27:55.280
<v Speaker 2>guitar player. Would you know, on some songs he played guitar.

0:27:55.440 --> 0:27:57.680
<v Speaker 2>Other songs he would play bass. So he really wanted

0:27:57.720 --> 0:27:59.960
<v Speaker 2>to play guitar, so he taught me a lot of

0:28:00.160 --> 0:28:02.600
<v Speaker 2>stuff on base. So how many months did it take

0:28:02.600 --> 0:28:06.520
<v Speaker 2>you to adjust? And really I would say fair about

0:28:06.560 --> 0:28:09.840
<v Speaker 2>six months? Okay, okay, about six months. I mean, you know,

0:28:09.880 --> 0:28:13.880
<v Speaker 2>I wasn't great, but I was good enough to get

0:28:13.880 --> 0:28:15.399
<v Speaker 2>through a three or four hour set, you know what.

0:28:15.920 --> 0:28:21.560
<v Speaker 1>So one of the pioneering things about the original iteration

0:28:21.720 --> 0:28:26.600
<v Speaker 1>of the Barcas, which also like another Memphis group, the MG's,

0:28:27.680 --> 0:28:31.919
<v Speaker 1>is that this is an interracial band. I didn't know

0:28:31.960 --> 0:28:36.200
<v Speaker 1>that the original keyboard player for the Barks was a

0:28:36.240 --> 0:28:44.600
<v Speaker 1>white guy. So just that alone, how radical was that

0:28:44.880 --> 0:28:47.360
<v Speaker 1>idea during that time period?

0:28:47.680 --> 0:28:50.640
<v Speaker 2>Well, the first thing we tried to do is everybody

0:28:50.720 --> 0:28:53.200
<v Speaker 2>was at different high schools, so we tried to get

0:28:53.200 --> 0:28:57.120
<v Speaker 2>everybody to the same high school. So you got five

0:28:57.200 --> 0:28:59.440
<v Speaker 2>black guys and this one white guy. He went to

0:28:59.480 --> 0:29:03.840
<v Speaker 2>a dominantly white school. So what about he goes to

0:29:03.840 --> 0:29:07.360
<v Speaker 2>his parents and say, look, I want to change and

0:29:07.520 --> 0:29:11.480
<v Speaker 2>go to Booker T. Washington High School because my guys

0:29:11.520 --> 0:29:16.479
<v Speaker 2>are there. His parents hit the freaking ceiling. Okay, okay,

0:29:17.000 --> 0:29:19.200
<v Speaker 2>but I have to say he was a radical white boy.

0:29:19.280 --> 0:29:22.200
<v Speaker 2>He said, I'm going anyway, you know, you know, you know,

0:29:22.840 --> 0:29:25.160
<v Speaker 2>probably be in reform school or something, you know, but

0:29:25.240 --> 0:29:28.040
<v Speaker 2>he said, and so they wasn't with it. But he

0:29:28.400 --> 0:29:33.080
<v Speaker 2>changed from a predominantly white school to a predominantly black school.

0:29:33.160 --> 0:29:37.000
<v Speaker 2>He was the only white kid in a predominantly black school,

0:29:38.080 --> 0:29:42.000
<v Speaker 2>and the black people accepted him. I mean, he didn't

0:29:42.040 --> 0:29:44.400
<v Speaker 2>have no issues. They didn't try to jump him, you know,

0:29:44.440 --> 0:29:46.880
<v Speaker 2>after school or nothing like that. He had a black

0:29:46.920 --> 0:29:50.520
<v Speaker 2>girlfriend the whole nine. He walking in, you know, walking

0:29:50.560 --> 0:29:54.000
<v Speaker 2>into the projects. Hey Ronnie, what's going on, man? How

0:29:54.040 --> 0:29:57.760
<v Speaker 2>you doing? You know? No problem in Memphis? In Memphis, Tennessee.

0:29:58.240 --> 0:30:00.920
<v Speaker 2>In clubs, are you guys playing in?

0:30:01.080 --> 0:30:07.719
<v Speaker 1>Are these segregated clubs are these like, what's the.

0:30:06.040 --> 0:30:09.960
<v Speaker 2>The layout of what your gigs are like? We played

0:30:09.960 --> 0:30:14.000
<v Speaker 2>predominantly black clubs, and then we also played predominantly white clubs.

0:30:14.040 --> 0:30:18.760
<v Speaker 2>Now the white clubs. I remember a club that we played.

0:30:18.880 --> 0:30:21.000
<v Speaker 2>Papa Willie was the house band. Willie Mitchell was the

0:30:21.000 --> 0:30:26.520
<v Speaker 2>house band. And this club had a guardrail around the stage,

0:30:26.640 --> 0:30:30.680
<v Speaker 2>so there was no way you could go out in

0:30:30.720 --> 0:30:34.000
<v Speaker 2>the in the audience behind the drummer. There was a

0:30:34.120 --> 0:30:36.840
<v Speaker 2>door that led to the parking lot.

0:30:37.280 --> 0:30:39.720
<v Speaker 1>So on break in order to get on stage, you

0:30:39.800 --> 0:30:44.160
<v Speaker 1>were just you're basically in a cell or a prison.

0:30:44.600 --> 0:30:47.920
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, you come out on stage, so I mean, you know,

0:30:48.040 --> 0:30:49.880
<v Speaker 2>people come up and wanted to talk to you, so

0:30:49.920 --> 0:30:52.120
<v Speaker 2>they had to talk to you over the guardrail, you know,

0:30:52.240 --> 0:30:54.920
<v Speaker 2>just a rode An fence around the stage.

0:30:54.800 --> 0:30:57.840
<v Speaker 1>And that was purposely designed so that if black acts

0:30:57.880 --> 0:30:59.400
<v Speaker 1>were hired, they weren't allowed.

0:31:00.080 --> 0:31:02.320
<v Speaker 2>What you're recognizing with the patriots, you know, the people

0:31:02.320 --> 0:31:03.880
<v Speaker 2>in the club man.

0:31:04.240 --> 0:31:07.600
<v Speaker 1>The odd thing is that I kind of wish I

0:31:07.640 --> 0:31:12.800
<v Speaker 1>have that system now, not for racial reasons, just yeah,

0:31:12.920 --> 0:31:16.000
<v Speaker 1>I just I want to get up going stage, yeah

0:31:16.080 --> 0:31:21.120
<v Speaker 1>and get out without any you know selfieh yeah, all right, No,

0:31:21.240 --> 0:31:22.120
<v Speaker 1>I love my fan base.

0:31:22.240 --> 0:31:24.440
<v Speaker 2>But but hey, but I tell you, I'll tell you what.

0:31:25.040 --> 0:31:28.320
<v Speaker 2>I'll tell you what happened one night at that particular club.

0:31:29.480 --> 0:31:32.400
<v Speaker 2>Espresially had a private party at this club called the

0:31:32.440 --> 0:31:36.480
<v Speaker 2>Manhattan Club. Right. I know, I'm skipping around, but by

0:31:36.480 --> 0:31:40.080
<v Speaker 2>this time I was playing with a band called Isaac

0:31:40.200 --> 0:31:44.520
<v Speaker 2>Hayes and the Do Dads, and I was a do Dad. Okay.

0:31:45.640 --> 0:31:49.600
<v Speaker 2>We played this club for one year called the Plantation

0:31:49.880 --> 0:31:55.200
<v Speaker 2>in in West Memphis. Unfortunate name. Yeah. We played from

0:31:55.280 --> 0:31:59.280
<v Speaker 2>nine to three, okay, six nights a week while I

0:31:59.320 --> 0:32:01.440
<v Speaker 2>was in high school. Okay for six hours.

0:32:01.640 --> 0:32:04.520
<v Speaker 1>So when you're doing a residency like that, you're not

0:32:04.560 --> 0:32:06.800
<v Speaker 1>playing six hours in a row, correct, Like what's the

0:32:07.040 --> 0:32:11.280
<v Speaker 1>what's fifteen forty five minutes?

0:32:11.640 --> 0:32:11.880
<v Speaker 2>Yeah?

0:32:12.000 --> 0:32:15.240
<v Speaker 1>Doing that fifteen minute break? Is music in the air?

0:32:15.320 --> 0:32:17.200
<v Speaker 1>Like do they have a juke box or something?

0:32:17.440 --> 0:32:21.240
<v Speaker 2>A juke box? Okay? So yeah, Music's a constant, yeah,

0:32:21.560 --> 0:32:22.280
<v Speaker 2>constantly going.

0:32:22.640 --> 0:32:25.880
<v Speaker 1>Is it the same set six times at night or

0:32:25.960 --> 0:32:28.840
<v Speaker 1>you're learning different so doing different songs, I mean it goes.

0:32:29.240 --> 0:32:31.600
<v Speaker 2>You know, by this time, you know, you end up

0:32:31.640 --> 0:32:33.960
<v Speaker 2>learning a lot of songs. Okay, I mean you know

0:32:34.120 --> 0:32:37.680
<v Speaker 2>every now and then, uh, maybe in the hour one

0:32:37.800 --> 0:32:41.240
<v Speaker 2>and hours five you might repeat a song or two, okay,

0:32:41.480 --> 0:32:43.400
<v Speaker 2>but we had different songs. I mean, you know, I

0:32:43.520 --> 0:32:45.680
<v Speaker 2>learned a lot of songs like the New Units of

0:32:45.800 --> 0:32:49.200
<v Speaker 2>You and My Funny Valid I mean, you know, just

0:32:49.280 --> 0:32:52.320
<v Speaker 2>all those songs then plus whatever songs were out then.

0:32:52.480 --> 0:32:57.000
<v Speaker 1>You know, was this primarily well you said my Funny Valentine.

0:32:57.040 --> 0:32:59.360
<v Speaker 1>So I'm like, those are ballots? Yeah, like during this

0:32:59.400 --> 0:33:01.760
<v Speaker 1>period kids want to dance, do they not?

0:33:02.080 --> 0:33:03.960
<v Speaker 2>Or yeah? Well these weren't kids, he was were grown

0:33:04.040 --> 0:33:07.240
<v Speaker 2>people in the club there you go, Yeah, okay here grown.

0:33:07.320 --> 0:33:10.120
<v Speaker 2>I mean you have to be twenty one to get

0:33:10.200 --> 0:33:12.320
<v Speaker 2>in the club, got it. But we were under age,

0:33:12.400 --> 0:33:14.840
<v Speaker 2>you know, getting in the club. We was in the club.

0:33:14.920 --> 0:33:17.480
<v Speaker 2>I mean, I think Isaac may have at doing those times.

0:33:17.520 --> 0:33:20.840
<v Speaker 2>He might have been in his early twenties. Got you

0:33:20.920 --> 0:33:23.440
<v Speaker 2>all right? Sin finish? I interrupted your story. You went

0:33:23.480 --> 0:33:26.360
<v Speaker 2>to an Elvis press league. Yeah, we went to Elvis. No,

0:33:26.520 --> 0:33:29.600
<v Speaker 2>Elvis presst hired us to play a party. You know.

0:33:29.640 --> 0:33:32.400
<v Speaker 2>Elvis was always big on like, for instance, if he

0:33:32.480 --> 0:33:35.240
<v Speaker 2>go to amusement park or something like that, he would

0:33:35.320 --> 0:33:38.960
<v Speaker 2>shut the whole amusement park down and just only somebody

0:33:39.000 --> 0:33:41.520
<v Speaker 2>would be there with him and his cronies. Same thing

0:33:41.520 --> 0:33:43.520
<v Speaker 2>with the club. If he if he did something at

0:33:43.520 --> 0:33:46.520
<v Speaker 2>the club, shut the club down, Nobody deal with him

0:33:46.520 --> 0:33:47.200
<v Speaker 2>and his cronies.

0:33:47.440 --> 0:33:50.480
<v Speaker 1>Now when I watch footage of Elvis elsewhere, you know,

0:33:50.560 --> 0:33:53.880
<v Speaker 1>girlsy chasing them, and it's like, yeah, chaos. Right, is

0:33:53.920 --> 0:33:57.320
<v Speaker 1>he able to move in and out of Memphis like

0:33:57.360 --> 0:33:58.880
<v Speaker 1>it's nothing because everyone knows him?

0:33:59.120 --> 0:34:03.400
<v Speaker 2>Or no? I mean he's still he's still Evers person.

0:34:03.440 --> 0:34:06.000
<v Speaker 2>He still got security all twenty four seven with him,

0:34:06.040 --> 0:34:10.320
<v Speaker 2>got But we played this club. This is Isaac Cages

0:34:10.360 --> 0:34:13.520
<v Speaker 2>and to do dads. I think Isaac charged them I

0:34:13.600 --> 0:34:17.920
<v Speaker 2>want to say five hundred dollars and I think Isaac

0:34:17.960 --> 0:34:20.120
<v Speaker 2>paid us like about forty dollars a piece or something

0:34:20.160 --> 0:34:24.400
<v Speaker 2>like that. But after the thing, that man, you you

0:34:24.480 --> 0:34:28.080
<v Speaker 2>still got this roll down fence. Right, So we walked

0:34:28.120 --> 0:34:31.440
<v Speaker 2>out of the on the parking lot and come into

0:34:31.480 --> 0:34:33.640
<v Speaker 2>the front interest of the club because he wanted to

0:34:33.680 --> 0:34:36.719
<v Speaker 2>be up close and personal with us. And you know,

0:34:36.880 --> 0:34:41.759
<v Speaker 2>Evers was tall, right, you know, very handsome guy. I

0:34:41.760 --> 0:34:46.160
<v Speaker 2>mean very polite. I mean, yes, ma'am, no, ma'am. Type

0:34:46.160 --> 0:34:48.840
<v Speaker 2>of guy I've got you, very contrary to what people

0:34:49.080 --> 0:34:53.280
<v Speaker 2>say about him, anyway, he said, man, I really enjoyed myself.

0:34:53.320 --> 0:34:55.840
<v Speaker 2>I had a good time. And then you know, he

0:34:55.840 --> 0:34:57.439
<v Speaker 2>went in his park. He put out a big water

0:34:57.560 --> 0:35:00.720
<v Speaker 2>money and it was like six of us. No, maagine,

0:35:00.719 --> 0:35:04.759
<v Speaker 2>I'll just made forty bucks for the gig. Right. He

0:35:04.800 --> 0:35:07.520
<v Speaker 2>gave each one of us one hundred dollar bill and

0:35:07.640 --> 0:35:13.120
<v Speaker 2>I said, shit, it's got like one one than I

0:35:13.160 --> 0:35:17.400
<v Speaker 2>had right at the time. Well, I get it immediately

0:35:17.400 --> 0:35:18.799
<v Speaker 2>when I got home, I gave it one hundred to

0:35:18.840 --> 0:35:20.799
<v Speaker 2>my mom. Don't we always do that?

0:35:20.880 --> 0:35:35.359
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, all my money goes to my mom. During this

0:35:35.440 --> 0:35:40.399
<v Speaker 1>time period, is it possible for you to be a

0:35:40.560 --> 0:35:43.880
<v Speaker 1>local musician and make a living?

0:35:44.880 --> 0:35:45.799
<v Speaker 2>Is it possible?

0:35:46.160 --> 0:35:50.440
<v Speaker 1>Meaning okay, cats, I know, especially like if I talk

0:35:50.520 --> 0:35:53.360
<v Speaker 1>to someone from Detroit or you know, in the Iron

0:35:53.400 --> 0:35:57.200
<v Speaker 1>in the rust belt like or in Ohio, Indiana whatever.

0:35:58.200 --> 0:35:59.920
<v Speaker 1>Most of the stories is now we work in the

0:36:00.080 --> 0:36:05.120
<v Speaker 1>factories from eight am to four or five pm, and

0:36:05.120 --> 0:36:06.960
<v Speaker 1>then we go home, and then we go to the

0:36:07.000 --> 0:36:09.640
<v Speaker 1>bar that night, and then we'll play till one am

0:36:09.760 --> 0:36:11.920
<v Speaker 1>and do the same thing over and over again because

0:36:12.840 --> 0:36:15.839
<v Speaker 1>they need to make more money. Was it possible during

0:36:15.840 --> 0:36:20.799
<v Speaker 1>this time period to be a full time musician? What

0:36:20.960 --> 0:36:25.120
<v Speaker 1>is a good musician rate to survive and only be

0:36:25.160 --> 0:36:27.640
<v Speaker 1>a musician, not doing anything else but to do music.

0:36:27.760 --> 0:36:30.239
<v Speaker 2>Like what would you need to answer your question? It

0:36:30.400 --> 0:36:33.360
<v Speaker 2>really kind of like what like that you Mostly everybody

0:36:33.400 --> 0:36:37.960
<v Speaker 2>in the in the music community did something else besides music.

0:36:38.480 --> 0:36:42.440
<v Speaker 2>For me, I basically owned the did music because you know,

0:36:42.560 --> 0:36:44.880
<v Speaker 2>I was staying at home with my parents. Okay, so

0:36:45.160 --> 0:36:47.160
<v Speaker 2>you know, as my dad used always say, you know,

0:36:47.520 --> 0:36:50.400
<v Speaker 2>starting to get a little beside myself. You think you

0:36:50.480 --> 0:36:56.399
<v Speaker 2>a man now bills? Yeah, so you know I got

0:36:56.400 --> 0:36:59.600
<v Speaker 2>my first apartment. I was like seven. Thing. Okay, you

0:36:59.640 --> 0:37:01.760
<v Speaker 2>were the man in the house then. Yeah.

0:37:01.840 --> 0:37:06.840
<v Speaker 1>So like if I'm hiring you for a gig for

0:37:06.920 --> 0:37:09.240
<v Speaker 1>Saturday night, in which I guess you're expected to play

0:37:09.400 --> 0:37:13.520
<v Speaker 1>five to six hours, right, fair pay to you is

0:37:13.760 --> 0:37:17.440
<v Speaker 1>forty fifty bucks or is that just the entire band?

0:37:17.560 --> 0:37:21.680
<v Speaker 2>Like no, average was more like twenty five fifteen to

0:37:21.680 --> 0:37:22.280
<v Speaker 2>twenty five.

0:37:22.200 --> 0:37:24.319
<v Speaker 1>So for the whole band, they would just pay you

0:37:24.440 --> 0:37:26.719
<v Speaker 1>one hundred and fifty two hundred bucks for the night.

0:37:27.120 --> 0:37:29.239
<v Speaker 2>I mean, if you got a gig and you had

0:37:29.239 --> 0:37:31.920
<v Speaker 2>a band, like we had five or six piece bandy,

0:37:32.080 --> 0:37:34.120
<v Speaker 2>if we got three hundred dollars, that was a big deal,

0:37:34.920 --> 0:37:37.400
<v Speaker 2>got you? Okay? That was that was huge.

0:37:37.840 --> 0:37:40.239
<v Speaker 1>I guess what I'm trying to find out is, are

0:37:40.280 --> 0:37:45.080
<v Speaker 1>you by this point having any dreams of, hey, we

0:37:45.120 --> 0:37:46.799
<v Speaker 1>could take this higher, like maybe we can get a

0:37:46.800 --> 0:37:49.920
<v Speaker 1>record deal, maybe we can tour the world, maybe we can.

0:37:50.239 --> 0:37:52.400
<v Speaker 2>I wouldn't. We weren't even thinking about that. We were

0:37:52.440 --> 0:37:54.960
<v Speaker 2>just trying to see if we could get up to

0:37:55.040 --> 0:37:59.480
<v Speaker 2>like one hundred and fifty two hundred dollars a week,

0:38:00.320 --> 0:38:05.200
<v Speaker 2>we would be doing great. And back in those days

0:38:05.280 --> 0:38:09.200
<v Speaker 2>because of the club scene. In those days, if you

0:38:09.200 --> 0:38:12.879
<v Speaker 2>were pretty good, not for everybody, but that was kind

0:38:12.880 --> 0:38:15.680
<v Speaker 2>of like possible to get up to that because you

0:38:15.840 --> 0:38:19.040
<v Speaker 2>had them had a lot of clubs. I mean we

0:38:19.080 --> 0:38:23.040
<v Speaker 2>had the Flamingo Room, which was downtown. You had Club

0:38:23.080 --> 0:38:28.200
<v Speaker 2>Handy Gotcha. You had the Hippodrome, which you know that's

0:38:28.239 --> 0:38:31.839
<v Speaker 2>where you know we played there. You had another club

0:38:31.880 --> 0:38:33.879
<v Speaker 2>called the te Hee Club, you had the Man Had,

0:38:34.000 --> 0:38:36.160
<v Speaker 2>I mean, you know, there were clubs. It was like

0:38:36.239 --> 0:38:38.920
<v Speaker 2>a situation. Any club you go in, you're gonna hear

0:38:38.960 --> 0:38:40.640
<v Speaker 2>some you're gonna have some good ship, You're gonna hear

0:38:40.680 --> 0:38:41.680
<v Speaker 2>some good stuff, you know.

0:38:41.640 --> 0:38:44.759
<v Speaker 1>With their rival bands, Like who was your rival band

0:38:44.800 --> 0:38:45.400
<v Speaker 1>at that moment.

0:38:45.760 --> 0:38:51.200
<v Speaker 2>We didn't have a rival band at first, but we

0:38:51.200 --> 0:38:53.799
<v Speaker 2>were kind of like, for lack of a better world,

0:38:53.800 --> 0:38:58.360
<v Speaker 2>we were kind of like we ended up becoming the

0:38:58.520 --> 0:39:03.680
<v Speaker 2>second string band at Stacks. Now, man, you this was

0:39:03.880 --> 0:39:08.319
<v Speaker 2>after the plane crash, right, but we we didn't have

0:39:08.360 --> 0:39:13.000
<v Speaker 2>a rival band, and we were fortunate enough for Booker

0:39:13.000 --> 0:39:16.640
<v Speaker 2>T and the MG's, those guys man of Steve Cropper

0:39:16.840 --> 0:39:19.480
<v Speaker 2>by the way, to kind of like take us under

0:39:19.520 --> 0:39:21.839
<v Speaker 2>their wing, take us, take us under their wing.

0:39:22.080 --> 0:39:24.920
<v Speaker 1>Steve never opened up even after he became established, Like,

0:39:25.320 --> 0:39:27.600
<v Speaker 1>oh no, he won't even admit that.

0:39:28.080 --> 0:39:31.520
<v Speaker 2>No, Steve, Steve was I mean, you know, I mean,

0:39:31.560 --> 0:39:35.759
<v Speaker 2>I hope you don't come out of the gravy. But man,

0:39:36.080 --> 0:39:38.960
<v Speaker 2>you know, you know you couldn't get his respect. You know,

0:39:39.040 --> 0:39:41.839
<v Speaker 2>he couldn't get his respect. But I will tell you

0:39:41.880 --> 0:39:45.200
<v Speaker 2>this when Jim Steward, because you know, back in those

0:39:45.280 --> 0:39:48.680
<v Speaker 2>days when uh, every Monday they have a and R

0:39:48.800 --> 0:39:53.600
<v Speaker 2>meeting and Jim Steward, I mean, Steve Cropper would be there,

0:39:53.760 --> 0:39:57.440
<v Speaker 2>l Jackson, Booker T if he was not, if he

0:39:57.520 --> 0:40:00.680
<v Speaker 2>was in town, not in college, Isaac Ca, David Porter,

0:40:00.840 --> 0:40:04.160
<v Speaker 2>all those people were there and they would uh they

0:40:04.160 --> 0:40:08.160
<v Speaker 2>would give the schedule for that week and this particular

0:40:08.680 --> 0:40:13.279
<v Speaker 2>Monday after we recorded Soul Fingered the weekend, Jim said,

0:40:13.320 --> 0:40:14.800
<v Speaker 2>before we get into this meeting, I got somebody I

0:40:14.800 --> 0:40:18.480
<v Speaker 2>want to play for you. Steve Crupper was there. When

0:40:18.520 --> 0:40:23.720
<v Speaker 2>he played it, Steve Crupper's face turned red because they said, damn,

0:40:23.760 --> 0:40:26.480
<v Speaker 2>these were these little guys I was working with. Y'all

0:40:26.480 --> 0:40:27.040
<v Speaker 2>were a threat.

0:40:27.400 --> 0:40:31.080
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, then that means you're good if you're a threat

0:40:31.080 --> 0:40:31.439
<v Speaker 1>to him.

0:40:31.600 --> 0:40:33.600
<v Speaker 2>So yeah, okay, yeah.

0:40:33.719 --> 0:40:36.440
<v Speaker 1>As far as labels are concerned, you know, I know

0:40:36.480 --> 0:40:39.720
<v Speaker 1>of the legend of Sun Records, I know Stacks.

0:40:40.800 --> 0:40:43.080
<v Speaker 2>Were there any other labels in the.

0:40:43.160 --> 0:40:46.800
<v Speaker 1>Area or surrounding areas, I don't know how far Nashville

0:40:46.880 --> 0:40:48.960
<v Speaker 1>is or whatever.

0:40:49.320 --> 0:40:53.400
<v Speaker 2>In Memphis there was a label called gold Wax. Gotcha,

0:40:53.960 --> 0:40:56.960
<v Speaker 2>h James Carr, you're there before, I know, James Carr, Yes,

0:40:57.239 --> 0:40:59.160
<v Speaker 2>at the Dark end of the Street. Yeah, I know,

0:40:59.239 --> 0:41:02.520
<v Speaker 2>James Carr. You know, Chip Smallman was in Memphis. He

0:41:02.520 --> 0:41:05.400
<v Speaker 2>didn't have a label, but he was you know, he

0:41:05.440 --> 0:41:08.040
<v Speaker 2>had a he had a rhythm section. Got you then

0:41:08.080 --> 0:41:13.240
<v Speaker 2>you had then later on High Records came into play, okay,

0:41:13.440 --> 0:41:15.680
<v Speaker 2>you know with with you know, with Willie Mitchell and

0:41:15.719 --> 0:41:18.920
<v Speaker 2>all those guys. So Memphis was like fledging. You know,

0:41:18.960 --> 0:41:23.360
<v Speaker 2>you had Stacks. I mean I can remember I remember

0:41:23.640 --> 0:41:29.160
<v Speaker 2>Albel and Willie Mitchell standing on the parking lot and

0:41:29.200 --> 0:41:33.480
<v Speaker 2>Willie Mitchell says, so, man, you know have you heard that?

0:41:33.760 --> 0:41:35.560
<v Speaker 2>I mean, I just cut this new Al Green record.

0:41:36.440 --> 0:41:37.920
<v Speaker 2>You know, I want to play it for you to

0:41:37.920 --> 0:41:41.200
<v Speaker 2>see what you think about it. And then Albill might say,

0:41:41.280 --> 0:41:44.240
<v Speaker 2>you know, yeah, I'm gonna play you this new Isaac

0:41:44.280 --> 0:41:44.920
<v Speaker 2>CAE's record.

0:41:45.440 --> 0:41:49.040
<v Speaker 1>See what you think about Yeah? Are they recording on

0:41:49.120 --> 0:41:54.040
<v Speaker 1>the same mixing board or the same equipment? Because the

0:41:54.160 --> 0:41:57.759
<v Speaker 1>sound of Willie Mitchell and the sound of Stacks, I

0:41:57.800 --> 0:42:02.240
<v Speaker 1>don't know how to how to accurately describe the sonic

0:42:02.320 --> 0:42:05.560
<v Speaker 1>texture of it. Like when I compare Motown to Memphis,

0:42:05.960 --> 0:42:09.560
<v Speaker 1>I will say that Motown takes advantage of compression, and

0:42:09.600 --> 0:42:13.200
<v Speaker 1>they take advantage of reverb, so it sounds bigger, like

0:42:13.200 --> 0:42:15.280
<v Speaker 1>they're in the hall whatever. When you hear them collapse,

0:42:15.320 --> 0:42:19.080
<v Speaker 1>it sounds like it's in a big ass church, whereas

0:42:19.440 --> 0:42:22.480
<v Speaker 1>like all the Memphis songs sound very dry, like I

0:42:22.640 --> 0:42:27.760
<v Speaker 1>never you know. In black music, snare drums are usually

0:42:27.760 --> 0:42:32.960
<v Speaker 1>tuned very tight, but everything's like low, like super low

0:42:33.080 --> 0:42:34.840
<v Speaker 1>and more bottom heavy?

0:42:35.480 --> 0:42:36.880
<v Speaker 2>Was that by design?

0:42:37.360 --> 0:42:40.160
<v Speaker 1>Like, Okay, this is the Memphis sound where you guys

0:42:40.160 --> 0:42:43.879
<v Speaker 1>trying to be anti motown were even aware.

0:42:43.680 --> 0:42:46.040
<v Speaker 2>That there was You want the real answer?

0:42:46.600 --> 0:42:48.719
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I do want the real answer, Like, do you

0:42:48.880 --> 0:42:53.399
<v Speaker 1>know that you're actively part of a movement without knowing it?

0:42:54.160 --> 0:43:00.160
<v Speaker 2>Probably though? Yeah, okay, yeah, we didn't know no about it. Okay, No,

0:43:00.280 --> 0:43:02.640
<v Speaker 2>that's that's a genuine answer. Yeah, we didn't know nobod

0:43:02.680 --> 0:43:05.120
<v Speaker 2>I mean we just I mean, I mean because most

0:43:05.160 --> 0:43:09.680
<v Speaker 2>of the time, I mean, man, you I mean, I mean, uh,

0:43:09.840 --> 0:43:12.200
<v Speaker 2>what are you at high or stacks or whatever? They

0:43:12.200 --> 0:43:14.759
<v Speaker 2>didn't really I mean, stack's really more than how we

0:43:14.840 --> 0:43:17.239
<v Speaker 2>didn't really have that much to work with, so you know,

0:43:17.400 --> 0:43:19.720
<v Speaker 2>just push push a few you push a few buttons

0:43:19.760 --> 0:43:21.600
<v Speaker 2>up and stuff like that, and then you know it's

0:43:21.880 --> 0:43:24.799
<v Speaker 2>it's all and popping. You know. That's the way it was.

0:43:25.480 --> 0:43:28.759
<v Speaker 2>I remember the incident I played on a song called

0:43:28.840 --> 0:43:32.839
<v Speaker 2>Cheap of the Keeper Johnny Tailorny Taylor. Yes, Don Davis came.

0:43:33.440 --> 0:43:35.200
<v Speaker 2>You know Don Davis used to come down to Memphis

0:43:35.239 --> 0:43:38.839
<v Speaker 2>and record a lot. Yes, and uh it cut Cheap

0:43:38.840 --> 0:43:41.960
<v Speaker 2>of the Keeper. Johnny Taylor was drunk, of course, you know,

0:43:42.000 --> 0:43:44.560
<v Speaker 2>he had a battle of wild Turkey in his hand,

0:43:44.600 --> 0:43:47.080
<v Speaker 2>and Don Davis had to go over there and grab

0:43:47.200 --> 0:43:49.360
<v Speaker 2>him in the coll and said, I do want you

0:43:49.440 --> 0:43:52.120
<v Speaker 2>to sing this goddamn song. I'm gonna kick you the

0:43:52.160 --> 0:43:55.200
<v Speaker 2>fucking ass. But anyway, so we went up in the

0:43:55.200 --> 0:43:57.239
<v Speaker 2>control room to listen to the playback or cheap of

0:43:57.280 --> 0:44:02.000
<v Speaker 2>the Keeper, and they kept playing it back, no base

0:44:02.080 --> 0:44:05.520
<v Speaker 2>on the song, right, So they said, uh, I mean,

0:44:05.840 --> 0:44:08.640
<v Speaker 2>they already knew what had happened, but they didn't tell me.

0:44:09.200 --> 0:44:13.200
<v Speaker 2>So they're gonna do this thing with me. James, did

0:44:13.200 --> 0:44:15.720
<v Speaker 2>you play on this track? Now? Man? You the bass

0:44:15.800 --> 0:44:18.759
<v Speaker 2>is bleeding because I'm standing. I'm standing close to the

0:44:19.440 --> 0:44:22.319
<v Speaker 2>drum track, so the bass is bleeding on the drum track.

0:44:22.400 --> 0:44:25.240
<v Speaker 2>So you do hear a little you hear a smidge

0:44:25.320 --> 0:44:30.000
<v Speaker 2>of the bass bleeding off the drum track. The engineer

0:44:30.040 --> 0:44:35.320
<v Speaker 2>pushed the bass module no bass because when he recorded,

0:44:35.400 --> 0:44:38.719
<v Speaker 2>he had the bass in preview or solo, but it

0:44:38.800 --> 0:44:41.920
<v Speaker 2>wasn't going on tape. Ah okay, And I'm getting the

0:44:42.000 --> 0:44:44.560
<v Speaker 2>lerious that this man I was man I was playing,

0:44:44.640 --> 0:44:48.080
<v Speaker 2>man called gaslighting you. Yeah, yeah, I was man I

0:44:48.160 --> 0:44:50.440
<v Speaker 2>was playing. And but they already knew what was happening.

0:44:51.040 --> 0:44:55.280
<v Speaker 2>By this time, the producer listened to the song several times,

0:44:55.960 --> 0:44:57.960
<v Speaker 2>said it was a rap. Go out there and put

0:44:57.960 --> 0:44:58.719
<v Speaker 2>the bass on the song.

0:44:59.600 --> 0:45:02.239
<v Speaker 1>Sure, okay, because I'm about to say, my memory of

0:45:02.280 --> 0:45:04.160
<v Speaker 1>it is you're the first thing I hear because it's

0:45:04.360 --> 0:45:09.680
<v Speaker 1>a jazzy dude. Dude you okay, So you overdubbed it.

0:45:09.840 --> 0:45:12.400
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, they just I mean they just stayed up in

0:45:12.400 --> 0:45:14.359
<v Speaker 2>the control everybody else stayed up in the control room.

0:45:14.640 --> 0:45:17.200
<v Speaker 2>What happened was the engineer was one of these little

0:45:18.280 --> 0:45:21.279
<v Speaker 2>one of these little engineers that you know, just starting out,

0:45:21.560 --> 0:45:24.480
<v Speaker 2>and he got excited. He got excited because Johnny Taylor

0:45:24.520 --> 0:45:26.680
<v Speaker 2>was in the building and all of that stuff like that,

0:45:27.000 --> 0:45:31.240
<v Speaker 2>and uh, and just forgot to put the base and records.

0:45:31.320 --> 0:45:33.319
<v Speaker 1>So you overdubb it because in my mind, I'm like,

0:45:33.480 --> 0:45:34.719
<v Speaker 1>I know there's based on that.

0:45:34.800 --> 0:45:35.919
<v Speaker 2>Okay, I see.

0:45:36.080 --> 0:45:38.560
<v Speaker 1>So the entire barcades of the rhythm section for Cheap

0:45:38.560 --> 0:45:40.760
<v Speaker 1>of the Keeper, no just or just you Okay.

0:45:41.040 --> 0:45:44.920
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. I ended up playing on a lot of sessions. Uh,

0:45:45.239 --> 0:45:48.719
<v Speaker 2>Duck was supposed to be playing, okay, but Duck liked

0:45:48.719 --> 0:45:54.200
<v Speaker 2>to play golf. Okay, okay, So my very first session

0:45:54.280 --> 0:45:57.960
<v Speaker 2>as Stacks was on the Soul Children. Now, man you.

0:45:58.960 --> 0:46:01.960
<v Speaker 2>I had another encounter Steve Cropper, because Steve Cropper was

0:46:01.960 --> 0:46:07.640
<v Speaker 2>the session leader. So we ready to start the session, right,

0:46:07.920 --> 0:46:10.720
<v Speaker 2>Steve Cropper said, we read to start the session. Who's

0:46:10.760 --> 0:46:16.080
<v Speaker 2>gonna play bass? Where's Duck? Duck is not here, So

0:46:16.160 --> 0:46:19.040
<v Speaker 2>Duck is not there, so I guess we got to

0:46:19.120 --> 0:46:24.600
<v Speaker 2>use nuck. Duck was Duck, I am, and we both

0:46:24.640 --> 0:46:31.600
<v Speaker 2>don't give a fuck. So my first session was Isaac

0:46:31.600 --> 0:46:36.240
<v Speaker 2>Cage and David Porter recording by the Soldier and called

0:46:36.600 --> 0:46:39.399
<v Speaker 2>the sweeter of he is okay, the longer the pain.

0:46:40.239 --> 0:46:42.520
<v Speaker 2>So I said, you know what, if I fuck this

0:46:42.600 --> 0:46:44.680
<v Speaker 2>song up here, I need to quit because all the

0:46:44.719 --> 0:46:50.440
<v Speaker 2>song was, I mean the basis of the song that

0:46:50.560 --> 0:46:53.720
<v Speaker 2>was the whole song basically had a couple of changes

0:46:53.760 --> 0:46:55.520
<v Speaker 2>in it. But if I missed this up, I mean,

0:46:55.600 --> 0:46:58.200
<v Speaker 2>Duck is probably never gonna go let me, you know,

0:46:58.280 --> 0:47:01.640
<v Speaker 2>sit in and again. But fortunately I didn't mess it up.

0:47:02.239 --> 0:47:04.040
<v Speaker 2>Now this is after the plane crash, so they start

0:47:04.080 --> 0:47:08.120
<v Speaker 2>bringing our whole rhythm section there because a lot of

0:47:08.120 --> 0:47:10.560
<v Speaker 2>the producers wanted to use our rhythm section because when

0:47:10.600 --> 0:47:14.160
<v Speaker 2>you're a young musician, you don't really think about what

0:47:14.200 --> 0:47:17.160
<v Speaker 2>you're doing. You just do some shit. But as you

0:47:17.200 --> 0:47:20.879
<v Speaker 2>get older, you know, you start second guessing yourself. You said,

0:47:21.600 --> 0:47:25.040
<v Speaker 2>I wonder what this work. But when you're young, just man,

0:47:25.440 --> 0:47:28.560
<v Speaker 2>just do it. You don't even think it. So the

0:47:28.600 --> 0:47:31.440
<v Speaker 2>producers like the fact that a lot of times we

0:47:31.560 --> 0:47:34.719
<v Speaker 2>just always do some spontaneous type shit. And then they

0:47:35.000 --> 0:47:39.560
<v Speaker 2>liked that, gotcha, So we started more and more. We

0:47:39.640 --> 0:47:42.920
<v Speaker 2>started instead of them using you know, Booker t and

0:47:42.960 --> 0:47:46.799
<v Speaker 2>the MG's and the MG's at the rhythm section. It

0:47:47.160 --> 0:47:51.279
<v Speaker 2>usually when Booker was in college, it would Isaac Cages

0:47:51.280 --> 0:47:53.800
<v Speaker 2>would would play the keyboards, gotcha, and then sometimes it

0:47:53.960 --> 0:47:54.600
<v Speaker 2>be both of them.

0:47:55.160 --> 0:47:59.040
<v Speaker 1>So when you're called in procession, are you getting a

0:47:59.160 --> 0:48:02.600
<v Speaker 1>tape of the song beforehand? A week beforehand? Are they

0:48:02.600 --> 0:48:04.719
<v Speaker 1>sending you charge or you're getting there?

0:48:05.560 --> 0:48:07.520
<v Speaker 2>None of that, dude, we don't do it.

0:48:07.560 --> 0:48:12.640
<v Speaker 1>Okay, name a non Barka's non otis Redding hit that

0:48:12.680 --> 0:48:16.680
<v Speaker 1>you were on. Just just something from Hot Buttery sol

0:48:16.800 --> 0:48:19.800
<v Speaker 1>or whatever a King which which song.

0:48:19.920 --> 0:48:22.080
<v Speaker 2>Not going on the bed side, But like I'll play

0:48:22.120 --> 0:48:25.440
<v Speaker 2>the blues for you, all of that, that's all of that.

0:48:25.440 --> 0:48:26.200
<v Speaker 2>That's your album.

0:48:26.280 --> 0:48:30.759
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, your level of getting sampled, Yeah, I got, I

0:48:30.760 --> 0:48:35.319
<v Speaker 1>got questions for Jazzy after you. Yeah, okay, so you're

0:48:35.400 --> 0:48:38.120
<v Speaker 1>getting called for a session. Well, see what Albert King.

0:48:38.840 --> 0:48:39.480
<v Speaker 1>It's also the.

0:48:39.400 --> 0:48:43.239
<v Speaker 2>Blues, so you know it's gonna be a one four five. Yeah,

0:48:43.280 --> 0:48:45.760
<v Speaker 2>but but he did some uh he did some stuff

0:48:45.760 --> 0:48:47.960
<v Speaker 2>with some changes in it too. Well you know, not

0:48:48.000 --> 0:48:50.480
<v Speaker 2>that a change. It's just one four five, you know,

0:48:50.680 --> 0:48:53.279
<v Speaker 2>just like you said, one four five, we called it

0:48:53.360 --> 0:48:57.319
<v Speaker 2>sealson Roebuck. Why do you call it seius and robutause

0:48:57.320 --> 0:49:01.040
<v Speaker 2>there's one four five, So sealson roebucks another name for it,

0:49:01.080 --> 0:49:01.640
<v Speaker 2>you know what I mean.

0:49:01.960 --> 0:49:05.080
<v Speaker 1>So that's the basic ground level of knowledge that you

0:49:05.120 --> 0:49:08.160
<v Speaker 1>should have when you are playing a session is.

0:49:09.640 --> 0:49:12.600
<v Speaker 2>Series and robots. You should do that. But then you know,

0:49:13.280 --> 0:49:17.760
<v Speaker 2>fast forwarding, Uh, what I did a couple of Nashville sessions,

0:49:18.440 --> 0:49:23.240
<v Speaker 2>and Nashville is a numbers uh city. They do the numbers, okay.

0:49:24.160 --> 0:49:26.719
<v Speaker 2>And the first time I did the session up there,

0:49:27.440 --> 0:49:29.560
<v Speaker 2>they put this chart in from me with the numbers,

0:49:30.680 --> 0:49:33.400
<v Speaker 2>and then many almost laughed me out of the studio

0:49:33.440 --> 0:49:35.359
<v Speaker 2>because this man, I said, Man, I don't know how

0:49:35.360 --> 0:49:36.839
<v Speaker 2>to do this ship like that. I said, man, would

0:49:36.880 --> 0:49:39.000
<v Speaker 2>y'all just play the demo and let me learn the

0:49:39.040 --> 0:49:41.440
<v Speaker 2>song and they said, no, we don't do it like that, homeboy.

0:49:41.880 --> 0:49:44.000
<v Speaker 1>So far are people listening when they do numbers? You

0:49:44.080 --> 0:49:46.680
<v Speaker 1>saw Okay play one for five, so you're supposed to

0:49:46.719 --> 0:49:47.000
<v Speaker 1>know that.

0:49:47.160 --> 0:49:50.799
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I was. I wasn't with it, so he has

0:49:50.840 --> 0:49:52.320
<v Speaker 2>a trial by fire life.

0:49:52.440 --> 0:49:55.319
<v Speaker 1>As far as learning, yeah, okay, going back to what

0:49:55.400 --> 0:49:57.400
<v Speaker 1>you asked, we were just set around.

0:49:57.840 --> 0:50:00.719
<v Speaker 2>Sometimes the song wasn't even created all the way, you

0:50:00.760 --> 0:50:02.319
<v Speaker 2>know what I mean. They had the idea for the

0:50:02.360 --> 0:50:05.000
<v Speaker 2>song and they said, man, you know, just come up

0:50:05.040 --> 0:50:07.680
<v Speaker 2>with something of something. Okay, think of something. Yeah, I

0:50:07.800 --> 0:50:10.200
<v Speaker 2>like that, got you got this lovely? I mean we

0:50:10.520 --> 0:50:13.319
<v Speaker 2>set around in a circle and the writer might be

0:50:13.360 --> 0:50:14.880
<v Speaker 2>in there and they might have the demo and we

0:50:14.920 --> 0:50:16.640
<v Speaker 2>come up with something like that. It was there was

0:50:16.880 --> 0:50:18.800
<v Speaker 2>a lot of it was just I mean off the cuff.

0:50:30.960 --> 0:50:34.240
<v Speaker 1>So I'll say that the one when people do Stax

0:50:34.320 --> 0:50:39.800
<v Speaker 1>versus Motown comparisons is Stax is also famous for instrumentals.

0:50:40.760 --> 0:50:46.080
<v Speaker 1>Now I'm talking about pre Larry Barcays. But at no

0:50:46.280 --> 0:50:51.320
<v Speaker 1>point in the Foundational years were you guys ever thinking

0:50:51.360 --> 0:50:54.200
<v Speaker 1>about adding a lead vocalist to the group so that

0:50:54.560 --> 0:50:57.560
<v Speaker 1>you can expand your repertoire and do other things.

0:50:57.920 --> 0:51:01.120
<v Speaker 2>Well, we had some believe vocals, but the way we

0:51:01.239 --> 0:51:03.200
<v Speaker 2>used to do that, we used to bring them on

0:51:03.360 --> 0:51:07.400
<v Speaker 2>and let them do two or three songs sittings. Yeah, gotcha,

0:51:07.480 --> 0:51:10.359
<v Speaker 2>and then we do our set. Gotcha. But we had

0:51:10.400 --> 0:51:14.279
<v Speaker 2>a unique way of doing instrumentals. So even though a

0:51:14.320 --> 0:51:17.560
<v Speaker 2>single was not there, it felt like a single was

0:51:17.600 --> 0:51:21.200
<v Speaker 2>there because we played the melody so beautifully. Gotcha. If

0:51:21.239 --> 0:51:24.759
<v Speaker 2>you ever listened to with a child's heart, yeah, I know.

0:51:24.920 --> 0:51:27.960
<v Speaker 2>So we got away with it. But after a while,

0:51:28.200 --> 0:51:31.400
<v Speaker 2>you know, as time went on, it's you know, I

0:51:31.480 --> 0:51:33.800
<v Speaker 2>must tell you, it did start getting a little redundant,

0:51:33.880 --> 0:51:35.080
<v Speaker 2>you know what I mean.

0:51:35.320 --> 0:51:40.640
<v Speaker 1>But with instrumentals, though, how were the soloing chops? Because

0:51:40.680 --> 0:51:43.319
<v Speaker 1>I mean, besides playing like the main melody and the

0:51:43.400 --> 0:51:46.560
<v Speaker 1>course and all that, I'm serting at some point, like

0:51:47.200 --> 0:51:53.160
<v Speaker 1>is being a virtuoso soloists also a requirement?

0:51:53.400 --> 0:51:57.960
<v Speaker 2>Or was just keeping a tight rhythm section? Basically keep

0:51:58.000 --> 0:52:02.200
<v Speaker 2>it tight rhythm section because in the original ball case,

0:52:03.160 --> 0:52:06.719
<v Speaker 2>the only really there was only one per well, wasn't

0:52:06.719 --> 0:52:09.040
<v Speaker 2>all those two people that could really do you know,

0:52:09.600 --> 0:52:12.879
<v Speaker 2>decent solos? And that was a guitar player and being

0:52:13.000 --> 0:52:16.560
<v Speaker 2>calling to the trumpet player everybody else was just like,

0:52:16.760 --> 0:52:21.720
<v Speaker 2>you know, hey, we go. Google stays close to the script,

0:52:21.840 --> 0:52:25.600
<v Speaker 2>you know, just they acomplishment. So right now on.

0:52:25.560 --> 0:52:29.840
<v Speaker 1>Social media, the big thing is that both Tupac and

0:52:29.960 --> 0:52:34.400
<v Speaker 1>Otis Redding passed away at the same age. And for

0:52:34.480 --> 0:52:37.640
<v Speaker 1>a lot of us, we included When you first hear

0:52:37.760 --> 0:52:42.480
<v Speaker 1>Otis Redding sing, I naturally thought, oh, yeah, he's like

0:52:42.600 --> 0:52:48.600
<v Speaker 1>forty two, maybe maybe fifty three. And I know, generationally speaking,

0:52:48.920 --> 0:52:52.880
<v Speaker 1>we get younger by the generation. I just turned fifty five.

0:52:53.239 --> 0:52:55.799
<v Speaker 1>I still feel like I'm in my thirties. You look

0:52:55.920 --> 0:52:58.280
<v Speaker 1>young as hell. I don't even you know what I mean.

0:52:58.360 --> 0:53:04.319
<v Speaker 2>Like seventy six, dude, your birthday was Tuesday, related, My

0:53:04.400 --> 0:53:07.560
<v Speaker 2>birthday was Monday. There you go, Capricorn, still quering power.

0:53:07.640 --> 0:53:11.200
<v Speaker 2>There you go. Tell me how Otis Redding enters the picture.

0:53:11.719 --> 0:53:14.800
<v Speaker 2>And was he always an old soul like that? Always

0:53:14.840 --> 0:53:17.480
<v Speaker 2>an old soul like even to you guys, was he

0:53:17.480 --> 0:53:20.360
<v Speaker 2>an old soul? Or was he like a big brother

0:53:20.520 --> 0:53:23.400
<v Speaker 2>to us? Like a big brother. But you know, the

0:53:23.440 --> 0:53:26.719
<v Speaker 2>age difference, it wasn't drastic. It was like when I

0:53:26.840 --> 0:53:30.400
<v Speaker 2>was seventeen, he was twenty five. He's like that, you

0:53:30.480 --> 0:53:33.080
<v Speaker 2>know what I mean, We're all twenty five year olders

0:53:33.560 --> 0:53:38.760
<v Speaker 2>like that. No, No, he was he man the oldest.

0:53:39.000 --> 0:53:41.799
<v Speaker 2>He was a different type of cat. Okay, this guy,

0:53:42.400 --> 0:53:44.600
<v Speaker 2>he was the first guy that told us about publishing.

0:53:44.680 --> 0:53:47.080
<v Speaker 2>I didn't. I mean, okay, first of all, when I

0:53:47.120 --> 0:53:50.720
<v Speaker 2>signed my first record contract, I didn't even read the contract.

0:53:50.719 --> 0:53:54.880
<v Speaker 2>I just signed. Oh no, But you have to understand,

0:53:54.920 --> 0:53:57.520
<v Speaker 2>I signed my first contract when I was sixteen years old.

0:53:57.800 --> 0:54:00.600
<v Speaker 2>I was so happy that, you know, give the deal

0:54:00.719 --> 0:54:02.480
<v Speaker 2>and just signed the contract. You know you're supposed to

0:54:03.200 --> 0:54:05.400
<v Speaker 2>get You know, we really weren't supposed to sign the

0:54:05.400 --> 0:54:06.719
<v Speaker 2>contract sand it.

0:54:07.120 --> 0:54:13.400
<v Speaker 1>You were also underage. Yeah, was that contract legal technically speaking?

0:54:13.640 --> 0:54:16.719
<v Speaker 2>Contract was full of shit? Okay, it was. It was

0:54:16.800 --> 0:54:20.080
<v Speaker 2>bad got you, but you know we signed it anyway

0:54:20.080 --> 0:54:22.840
<v Speaker 2>because we wanted to got a record. Yeah on the record. Yeah?

0:54:23.200 --> 0:54:27.640
<v Speaker 2>Did you guys have a record contract with Stacks pre

0:54:27.880 --> 0:54:31.160
<v Speaker 2>or post of this writing before? It was before? Okay,

0:54:31.239 --> 0:54:33.759
<v Speaker 2>And in fact, that's how it heard of us. Got you?

0:54:34.400 --> 0:54:37.680
<v Speaker 2>He was in town. Back then, they used to do

0:54:37.760 --> 0:54:40.600
<v Speaker 2>package shows where you would be eight or nine people

0:54:40.640 --> 0:54:44.120
<v Speaker 2>on the show, and most of the time you would

0:54:44.160 --> 0:54:47.279
<v Speaker 2>only do whatever your hit was and maybe one other

0:54:47.400 --> 0:54:50.200
<v Speaker 2>song got you. So the whole show uses the last

0:54:50.200 --> 0:54:52.879
<v Speaker 2>for like an hour and fifteen minutes and be nine

0:54:52.920 --> 0:54:54.960
<v Speaker 2>people on the show, a bunch of hits and cover

0:54:55.080 --> 0:54:57.760
<v Speaker 2>yeah it hits. Yeah, but if you did three songs

0:54:57.760 --> 0:55:01.040
<v Speaker 2>on the show, you was a star. Got you? Okay?

0:55:01.040 --> 0:55:02.759
<v Speaker 2>And then you know Otis Redding his ship was like

0:55:02.800 --> 0:55:06.719
<v Speaker 2>thirty minutes, so you know he was superstar. Right, so

0:55:06.760 --> 0:55:10.080
<v Speaker 2>Otis was in town. I think the show was Oldis

0:55:10.200 --> 0:55:18.600
<v Speaker 2>reading the Manhattan's Arthur Connolly, m Betty Swan. I can't

0:55:18.680 --> 0:55:20.880
<v Speaker 2>remember who else was. Maybe Colin Thomas may have been

0:55:20.920 --> 0:55:24.480
<v Speaker 2>on the show. But as you well know, in speaking

0:55:24.520 --> 0:55:27.279
<v Speaker 2>to you earlier, it seemed like, you know, you know

0:55:27.320 --> 0:55:29.080
<v Speaker 2>one of those guys that like to go out after

0:55:29.120 --> 0:55:31.120
<v Speaker 2>the show. Yeah you don't, do you?

0:55:31.200 --> 0:55:31.239
<v Speaker 1>No?

0:55:31.680 --> 0:55:35.239
<v Speaker 2>Well we did, gotcha. You know, the show, then the

0:55:35.280 --> 0:55:37.760
<v Speaker 2>after party, and then the after party, after the after party.

0:55:37.880 --> 0:55:41.239
<v Speaker 2>What happened all night, all night long. But anyway, we

0:55:41.239 --> 0:55:44.320
<v Speaker 2>were playing at this club called the Hippodrome, got you,

0:55:44.600 --> 0:55:49.000
<v Speaker 2>five hundred Bill Street. That's the address. That's a parking lot, now, yeah,

0:55:48.640 --> 0:55:51.600
<v Speaker 2>I'm familiar with it. Anyway, we were playing at this

0:55:51.640 --> 0:55:55.560
<v Speaker 2>club illegally of course. Okay, so Otis wanted to go

0:55:55.600 --> 0:55:58.040
<v Speaker 2>out after he do a short at the coliseum. So

0:55:58.080 --> 0:56:00.640
<v Speaker 2>he comes down to the Hippi draw he see this

0:56:00.760 --> 0:56:05.920
<v Speaker 2>band and this particular night he was in rare Form

0:56:06.840 --> 0:56:10.680
<v Speaker 2>and so he asked Al Bell and Al Jackson, which

0:56:10.960 --> 0:56:13.200
<v Speaker 2>Al Bell and Al Jackson were kind of like part

0:56:13.239 --> 0:56:17.120
<v Speaker 2>owners of the club, who is this band? And they

0:56:17.160 --> 0:56:19.439
<v Speaker 2>told him. He said, do you think they know any

0:56:19.480 --> 0:56:24.000
<v Speaker 2>of my songs? And he said, asked them, So he

0:56:24.120 --> 0:56:25.560
<v Speaker 2>called out a couple of songs. I think one of

0:56:25.640 --> 0:56:29.360
<v Speaker 2>us k turned you Loose and we really didn't know it,

0:56:29.440 --> 0:56:32.279
<v Speaker 2>but we kind of like knew of it, but we

0:56:33.160 --> 0:56:34.960
<v Speaker 2>were one of those we could fake it till we

0:56:35.000 --> 0:56:38.480
<v Speaker 2>make it. So he came up on stage, we did

0:56:38.520 --> 0:56:40.680
<v Speaker 2>the song with him, and he said, man, I got

0:56:40.719 --> 0:56:44.240
<v Speaker 2>to have these guys for my band. Now, man, you

0:56:44.440 --> 0:56:48.239
<v Speaker 2>otis had He had a twelve maybe a fourteen piece band,

0:56:48.280 --> 0:56:51.880
<v Speaker 2>you know, horns, all of that, and so what really

0:56:51.960 --> 0:56:54.480
<v Speaker 2>dripped him out was he kept looking up on the

0:56:54.520 --> 0:56:57.880
<v Speaker 2>stage and he kept looking around trying to see what

0:56:57.960 --> 0:57:00.560
<v Speaker 2>the rest of the people was. It was just six people.

0:57:00.560 --> 0:57:04.560
<v Speaker 2>Don't stay got you, but the sound was big. So

0:57:04.600 --> 0:57:06.520
<v Speaker 2>he said, I got to have these dudes from my band.

0:57:07.440 --> 0:57:10.759
<v Speaker 2>So he stayed in town extra day because he wanted

0:57:10.800 --> 0:57:14.000
<v Speaker 2>to talk to our parents. Gotcha, he wanted us to

0:57:14.000 --> 0:57:16.680
<v Speaker 2>go on the road with him. Right, we were getting

0:57:16.720 --> 0:57:21.440
<v Speaker 2>all hyped up and excited, and our parents said, hell

0:57:21.720 --> 0:57:30.000
<v Speaker 2>no to the no, no, no to the Really they said,

0:57:30.360 --> 0:57:32.720
<v Speaker 2>I mean, come, man, were still in high school, all

0:57:32.840 --> 0:57:35.720
<v Speaker 2>of the parents were, and they were all in the agreement.

0:57:35.880 --> 0:57:38.520
<v Speaker 2>In agreement, they said, Look, everybody was in the twelfth

0:57:38.520 --> 0:57:41.080
<v Speaker 2>grade except me. I was in the elevel because I'm

0:57:41.120 --> 0:57:42.800
<v Speaker 2>you know, like I was kind of like the youngest.

0:57:42.960 --> 0:57:46.000
<v Speaker 2>Got you, So he said, I don't know, but I

0:57:46.000 --> 0:57:49.200
<v Speaker 2>got to have these guys by band. So graduation was

0:57:49.240 --> 0:57:52.120
<v Speaker 2>like at the end of May, first of June. So

0:57:52.200 --> 0:57:55.280
<v Speaker 2>when they graduated, you know, I still had another year.

0:57:55.920 --> 0:57:59.600
<v Speaker 2>The day we graduated, you know, most people have graduation parties.

0:58:00.440 --> 0:58:03.840
<v Speaker 2>The same day we graduated, we left and went on

0:58:03.880 --> 0:58:07.320
<v Speaker 2>the road. Or we flew from Memphis to New York

0:58:08.280 --> 0:58:10.400
<v Speaker 2>to play with the Otis Redding where.

0:58:10.160 --> 0:58:13.280
<v Speaker 1>In New York the Apollo Theater. Oh my god, our

0:58:13.320 --> 0:58:16.040
<v Speaker 1>first gig. What did you know about the Apollo before

0:58:16.080 --> 0:58:16.720
<v Speaker 1>you got there?

0:58:17.160 --> 0:58:19.040
<v Speaker 2>Nothing? You didn't hear.

0:58:19.080 --> 0:58:22.640
<v Speaker 1>You didn't hear the legend of the Apollo theaters. That's

0:58:22.680 --> 0:58:24.840
<v Speaker 1>good that's actually good. That's good for you.

0:58:25.120 --> 0:58:27.200
<v Speaker 2>Look, you have to here's what you have to understand.

0:58:27.760 --> 0:58:31.160
<v Speaker 2>You're talking about some country bunkins. Up to this point

0:58:31.160 --> 0:58:35.640
<v Speaker 2>in our lives Memphis, we never we had gone no

0:58:35.760 --> 0:58:38.680
<v Speaker 2>more than thirty or forty mile raiders all the way

0:58:38.720 --> 0:58:43.400
<v Speaker 2>around from Memphis Tennessee. Got you, you know, maybe black Ville, Lockis,

0:58:44.520 --> 0:58:46.160
<v Speaker 2>West Memphis across the bridge.

0:58:46.360 --> 0:58:49.320
<v Speaker 1>We hadn't gone anywhere. I was taught to be afraid

0:58:49.360 --> 0:58:51.520
<v Speaker 1>of the Apollo. You know, my dad would always tells

0:58:51.520 --> 0:58:53.840
<v Speaker 1>me stories. My dad was like an oldiesdu op singer

0:58:53.840 --> 0:58:55.520
<v Speaker 1>back in the field. We were fearless.

0:58:55.520 --> 0:58:58.680
<v Speaker 2>So we didn't know what what what got me though,

0:58:58.800 --> 0:59:00.360
<v Speaker 2>because you know I was kind of like the hype

0:59:00.400 --> 0:59:03.640
<v Speaker 2>man or something like that. Yeah. So, uh before we

0:59:03.760 --> 0:59:08.280
<v Speaker 2>played with Otis, which mind you, we never had a

0:59:08.320 --> 0:59:12.960
<v Speaker 2>rehearsal with Otis. Ready, can we just call out the songs? No?

0:59:13.400 --> 0:59:16.480
<v Speaker 2>Because we kept asking, man, when don't we go rehearse?

0:59:16.920 --> 0:59:18.560
<v Speaker 2>Oh man, y'all know my shit, man, we ain't get

0:59:18.560 --> 0:59:21.920
<v Speaker 2>to rehearsal. So the only rehearsal we had with Otis

0:59:22.400 --> 0:59:25.600
<v Speaker 2>down in the basement at the Apollo Theater. We had

0:59:25.640 --> 0:59:29.120
<v Speaker 2>a talk rehearsal. No instruments. We just talked it through.

0:59:29.920 --> 0:59:31.680
<v Speaker 2>He said, Man, y'all got it.

0:59:32.000 --> 0:59:35.800
<v Speaker 1>Okay, So when you're doing these gigs the way in

0:59:35.800 --> 0:59:39.120
<v Speaker 1>my life is now, it's definitely like three hour sound

0:59:39.200 --> 0:59:42.880
<v Speaker 1>checks you get there twelve one, two, three. Oh, No,

0:59:42.960 --> 0:59:46.080
<v Speaker 1>it was a sound check a thing or monitor is

0:59:46.120 --> 0:59:48.480
<v Speaker 1>a thing? Was the sound guy a thing?

0:59:49.160 --> 0:59:52.280
<v Speaker 2>If you had two mics on stage, you were doing great.

0:59:52.480 --> 0:59:55.880
<v Speaker 1>So it's the sound just naturally coming from your amp

0:59:56.440 --> 1:00:02.040
<v Speaker 1>and the drums. There's no mics, two mics, monitors, no.

1:00:01.560 --> 1:00:03.640
<v Speaker 2>None of that. If you was on stage and you

1:00:03.720 --> 1:00:06.440
<v Speaker 2>had two oh, if you had three bikes on stage,

1:00:06.640 --> 1:00:08.600
<v Speaker 2>you was swat shit.

1:00:09.440 --> 1:00:14.440
<v Speaker 1>Someone told me Ray Charles having five microphones for his

1:00:14.520 --> 1:00:17.520
<v Speaker 1>sole stage show was like a major thing. Like he

1:00:17.640 --> 1:00:22.040
<v Speaker 1>insisted on the raylets him his piano, and then the band,

1:00:22.080 --> 1:00:25.560
<v Speaker 1>the rhythm section. And okay, so if I'm in the

1:00:25.600 --> 1:00:29.000
<v Speaker 1>Apollo Theater and the newsbleed third row, the.

1:00:29.000 --> 1:00:32.240
<v Speaker 2>Top row up, you still gonna hear it everything.

1:00:32.640 --> 1:00:35.040
<v Speaker 1>I gotta imagine that, because you know, I'm used to

1:00:35.040 --> 1:00:37.840
<v Speaker 1>a life where there's I mean, you've seen modern concerts

1:00:37.880 --> 1:00:40.200
<v Speaker 1>now with speakers and speakers and speakers.

1:00:40.440 --> 1:00:44.240
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, well you know you know these guys man I

1:00:44.240 --> 1:00:45.320
<v Speaker 2>can't hear my monitor.

1:00:45.840 --> 1:00:48.080
<v Speaker 1>Is this why I see a lot of sixties cats

1:00:48.080 --> 1:00:51.480
<v Speaker 1>hold their ear when they sing? Yeah, Ronald Eisley, every

1:00:51.480 --> 1:00:53.840
<v Speaker 1>clip I've ever seen of the Eisley Brothers, like pre

1:00:54.360 --> 1:00:57.160
<v Speaker 1>nineteen seventy five, he's always hold right so you can

1:00:57.200 --> 1:00:58.400
<v Speaker 1>hear that's so he can hear him.

1:00:58.440 --> 1:01:01.520
<v Speaker 2>That's his monitor. This is your monitor. Yeah, And then

1:01:02.120 --> 1:01:04.120
<v Speaker 2>I came up with an era that you're supposed to

1:01:04.160 --> 1:01:06.240
<v Speaker 2>know this show. So if you don't have any monitors,

1:01:06.280 --> 1:01:07.800
<v Speaker 2>you're supposed to know what you're supposed to be doing,

1:01:08.400 --> 1:01:10.880
<v Speaker 2>when and where you're supposed to be doing it at.

1:01:11.040 --> 1:01:14.920
<v Speaker 2>So these younger guys they over play monitors. Man, you know,

1:01:15.080 --> 1:01:17.160
<v Speaker 2>I mean, you know, if you know, if you know

1:01:17.200 --> 1:01:19.120
<v Speaker 2>what you're doing, you know, you don't really need all

1:01:19.120 --> 1:01:21.640
<v Speaker 2>of that. Man, I can't hear the monitsor then you

1:01:21.680 --> 1:01:23.320
<v Speaker 2>know you came up with now you got in the

1:01:23.360 --> 1:01:26.200
<v Speaker 2>ears and all of that. Yeah, man, I didn't, so

1:01:26.400 --> 1:01:30.920
<v Speaker 2>I'm spoiled. Sorry, I know, I don't even use none

1:01:30.960 --> 1:01:33.280
<v Speaker 2>of that. I don't use no in ears. If I

1:01:33.320 --> 1:01:36.240
<v Speaker 2>have monitors, fine, if I don't, it's still fine. Got

1:01:36.280 --> 1:01:38.240
<v Speaker 2>you you know, I mean, but now you know you

1:01:38.320 --> 1:01:41.080
<v Speaker 2>got side fields you got all this, you're gonna you know,

1:01:41.480 --> 1:01:45.520
<v Speaker 2>what is that first or this reading show? Like and

1:01:45.600 --> 1:01:48.960
<v Speaker 2>again no one's telling you guys, y'all better be good

1:01:48.960 --> 1:01:51.840
<v Speaker 2>because the New York crowds is tough. Well, first of all,

1:01:53.040 --> 1:01:56.440
<v Speaker 2>our first thing with otis Redding. Well, we played the

1:01:56.480 --> 1:02:01.120
<v Speaker 2>Apollo for ten days, four shows. We played on the

1:02:01.200 --> 1:02:04.360
<v Speaker 2>average at least three shows a day. I think over

1:02:04.360 --> 1:02:08.160
<v Speaker 2>that ten day period we played Priorday about maybe I

1:02:08.240 --> 1:02:10.640
<v Speaker 2>stand to be corrected. We played about thirty shows over

1:02:10.680 --> 1:02:14.400
<v Speaker 2>that ten days. Thirty shows. Yeah, because okay, like on Wednesday,

1:02:14.440 --> 1:02:18.040
<v Speaker 2>give me that tenerary Wednesday with you know, Matt Dee.

1:02:18.560 --> 1:02:21.000
<v Speaker 2>First of all, they didn't turn the house. So if

1:02:21.000 --> 1:02:24.120
<v Speaker 2>you came to show at one o'clock and the last

1:02:24.120 --> 1:02:26.640
<v Speaker 2>show maybe started nine to forty five, or somebody stay

1:02:26.680 --> 1:02:30.720
<v Speaker 2>there all day. Oh yeah, some parents made the Apollo

1:02:31.160 --> 1:02:34.680
<v Speaker 2>their daycare center because they come drop the kids off

1:02:34.680 --> 1:02:37.200
<v Speaker 2>at the Apollo because you know, after the show, they're

1:02:37.200 --> 1:02:39.360
<v Speaker 2>gonna show a movie. Then they gonna show a show,

1:02:40.160 --> 1:02:45.880
<v Speaker 2>movie show, movie show. Really yeah, same thing at the

1:02:45.960 --> 1:02:48.720
<v Speaker 2>Uptown and you're in your hometown. Okay, so I'm paying

1:02:48.800 --> 1:02:52.120
<v Speaker 2>what five bucks to get in? Yeah, maybe three to

1:02:52.200 --> 1:02:54.240
<v Speaker 2>five bucks, maybe three bucks, and you can stay.

1:02:54.040 --> 1:02:56.360
<v Speaker 1>There all and I could stay there all day, all day,

1:02:57.200 --> 1:02:58.040
<v Speaker 1>watch a movie.

1:02:58.120 --> 1:03:01.720
<v Speaker 2>They show a film and come out. Your parents might

1:03:01.800 --> 1:03:04.400
<v Speaker 2>give you five bucks so you can get your hot

1:03:04.400 --> 1:03:06.320
<v Speaker 2>dog or some popcorn or something you know you got,

1:03:06.720 --> 1:03:09.280
<v Speaker 2>you know, so day care. I would do anything to

1:03:09.520 --> 1:03:14.840
<v Speaker 2>witness that. Yeah, so imagine now we some country bunkers

1:03:14.840 --> 1:03:17.120
<v Speaker 2>then came all the way up from Memphis Tendency to

1:03:17.320 --> 1:03:21.240
<v Speaker 2>New York City. We only had one uniform. We planned

1:03:21.240 --> 1:03:24.760
<v Speaker 2>Apollo for ten days. You're answering the question I always

1:03:24.800 --> 1:03:25.280
<v Speaker 2>wanted to know.

1:03:25.640 --> 1:03:29.680
<v Speaker 1>Now again, James Brown's whole thing is you get fined

1:03:29.680 --> 1:03:31.920
<v Speaker 1>if there's a spot or wrinkle, Your shoes better be

1:03:31.960 --> 1:03:33.040
<v Speaker 1>shining and all that stuff.

1:03:34.000 --> 1:03:36.040
<v Speaker 2>I've heard these records, I've seen these shows.

1:03:36.040 --> 1:03:43.240
<v Speaker 1>I've seen like footage, you're sweating, So how are you

1:03:43.920 --> 1:03:46.280
<v Speaker 1>caring for him? Assuming that you're wearing white shirts?

1:03:46.520 --> 1:03:51.240
<v Speaker 2>The uniforms it was, I don't know, do you know anything?

1:03:51.400 --> 1:03:54.880
<v Speaker 2>Have you ever heard of a slack soup before? Wear

1:03:55.320 --> 1:03:59.440
<v Speaker 2>a shirt in the past match? Okay? Yeah, just like

1:03:59.480 --> 1:04:02.000
<v Speaker 2>an outfit. Okay, So we had some outfits like that.

1:04:02.560 --> 1:04:05.360
<v Speaker 2>So what we did between shows we would take the

1:04:05.560 --> 1:04:09.000
<v Speaker 2>outfits off and hang them up, you know in the

1:04:09.000 --> 1:04:11.520
<v Speaker 2>balcons rooms, we hang them up on the pipes. Yeah,

1:04:11.760 --> 1:04:17.880
<v Speaker 2>let them drove because yeah, the sweating a that iron, Yes,

1:04:18.080 --> 1:04:22.920
<v Speaker 2>sweat smell. Yeah, we couldn't do no better. I always

1:04:22.920 --> 1:04:26.640
<v Speaker 2>wanted to know that. Okay, So what happened in Apollo?

1:04:26.680 --> 1:04:28.680
<v Speaker 2>You know you got hecklers and all that stuff like that.

1:04:28.800 --> 1:04:32.520
<v Speaker 2>So I'm the hip man, So I go out there

1:04:32.560 --> 1:04:37.520
<v Speaker 2>stor how y'all doing? Didn't nobody say shit, no, there

1:04:37.600 --> 1:04:41.240
<v Speaker 2>is nothing, he said looking at me, I said, I said,

1:04:41.280 --> 1:04:44.520
<v Speaker 2>how y'all doing? What's going on? So I said nothing?

1:04:45.240 --> 1:04:47.560
<v Speaker 2>So a guy that's been there all day says, man,

1:04:47.600 --> 1:04:50.720
<v Speaker 2>we're gonna be doing great when y'all changed clothes, because

1:04:50.760 --> 1:04:53.080
<v Speaker 2>they saw us at one o'clock, we had the same

1:04:53.120 --> 1:04:56.160
<v Speaker 2>outfit on. At four o'clock, we still had the same

1:04:56.200 --> 1:04:59.439
<v Speaker 2>outfit on. At seven o'clock, we still had the same

1:04:59.480 --> 1:05:02.640
<v Speaker 2>outfit on. But we didn't have nothing to change in too.

1:05:02.960 --> 1:05:04.480
<v Speaker 2>We just had that one outfit.

1:05:04.960 --> 1:05:09.360
<v Speaker 1>Uh no, okay, when did you finally get a second outfit?

1:05:09.560 --> 1:05:12.720
<v Speaker 2>Were you? Least not? While we were at the Apollo Oldest.

1:05:12.760 --> 1:05:16.000
<v Speaker 2>I guess Oldis probably felt sorry for us. So because

1:05:16.160 --> 1:05:18.840
<v Speaker 2>after we played the Apollo. We took a little break

1:05:18.840 --> 1:05:20.680
<v Speaker 2>and then we went on tour with Oldest. We did

1:05:20.800 --> 1:05:24.080
<v Speaker 2>like a package show where we went all over the

1:05:24.320 --> 1:05:26.600
<v Speaker 2>you know, all over the country. You know, a bus

1:05:26.640 --> 1:05:29.120
<v Speaker 2>too was on the not a customized bus. So I

1:05:29.160 --> 1:05:34.400
<v Speaker 2>got you everybody on the bus, got all the artists

1:05:34.440 --> 1:05:36.120
<v Speaker 2>on the bus. Oh this wasn't on the bus with

1:05:36.160 --> 1:05:38.360
<v Speaker 2>all the rest of us. What was it like for

1:05:38.480 --> 1:05:39.040
<v Speaker 2>you to.

1:05:40.480 --> 1:05:44.760
<v Speaker 1>See America at that time period and the regionalism of

1:05:44.840 --> 1:05:45.120
<v Speaker 1>it all?

1:05:46.120 --> 1:05:49.320
<v Speaker 2>I can remember fast forwarding we were playing doing something

1:05:49.360 --> 1:05:53.360
<v Speaker 2>with Isaac Cay's in Birmingham, Alabama. Uh, the only hotel

1:05:53.440 --> 1:05:57.200
<v Speaker 2>that you could stay at in Birmingham was a hotel

1:05:57.280 --> 1:06:01.920
<v Speaker 2>called a g Gaston Hotel. Okay, it was black owned.

1:06:02.000 --> 1:06:05.000
<v Speaker 2>It was like a motel, so you know, everybody it

1:06:05.080 --> 1:06:08.400
<v Speaker 2>was like in Memphis, like the Lorraine that was one

1:06:08.440 --> 1:06:12.160
<v Speaker 2>of the few hotels that blacks could stay at. I mean,

1:06:12.200 --> 1:06:14.960
<v Speaker 2>he couldn't stand the peabody of nowhere like that, you know.

1:06:15.720 --> 1:06:18.600
<v Speaker 2>So it just traveling around, I mean, you know, just

1:06:20.040 --> 1:06:23.560
<v Speaker 2>we just saw how racist things were, especially in the South.

1:06:23.600 --> 1:06:26.920
<v Speaker 2>It wasn't it wasn't as bad as we came up north.

1:06:27.000 --> 1:06:30.720
<v Speaker 2>As she came like DC Philly all up thrown down

1:06:30.760 --> 1:06:33.080
<v Speaker 2>the East coast, you know, it wasn't as bad, but

1:06:33.160 --> 1:06:35.040
<v Speaker 2>down south it was. It was horrible.

1:06:36.080 --> 1:06:40.000
<v Speaker 1>As far as Otis Is concerned, are you his stage

1:06:40.040 --> 1:06:42.360
<v Speaker 1>band only or were you also going to be his

1:06:42.440 --> 1:06:43.640
<v Speaker 1>studio band as well?

1:06:43.920 --> 1:06:46.480
<v Speaker 2>No, we didn't. We didn't play on anything in the

1:06:46.520 --> 1:06:50.680
<v Speaker 2>studio with Otis. We probably would have later on because

1:06:51.560 --> 1:06:55.880
<v Speaker 2>Otis we played a After we did this tour with Otis,

1:06:56.360 --> 1:06:59.760
<v Speaker 2>he took another stand in San Francisco at a club

1:07:00.160 --> 1:07:05.720
<v Speaker 2>the Basin Street West, gotcha on Broadway in down in

1:07:05.880 --> 1:07:10.960
<v Speaker 2>downtown San Francisco. And it was a ten day stint

1:07:11.160 --> 1:07:16.440
<v Speaker 2>and we were standing in downtown San Francisco, and he

1:07:16.560 --> 1:07:20.160
<v Speaker 2>was stayed. He stayed out in Marine County out of

1:07:20.400 --> 1:07:23.360
<v Speaker 2>uh somebody had rented him a houseboat, so he stayed

1:07:23.400 --> 1:07:28.000
<v Speaker 2>on the houseboat. So oldest, I don't know, even though

1:07:28.040 --> 1:07:32.600
<v Speaker 2>I was younger, you know, we connected. So he calls

1:07:32.640 --> 1:07:36.160
<v Speaker 2>me at the hotel and said, man, I want you

1:07:36.200 --> 1:07:38.520
<v Speaker 2>to get out here now, man, you I'm in downtown

1:07:38.560 --> 1:07:41.280
<v Speaker 2>San Francisco. He wanted me to come to Salcolito, which

1:07:41.320 --> 1:07:43.480
<v Speaker 2>is you know you have to go across the Golden

1:07:43.480 --> 1:07:46.600
<v Speaker 2>gate Bridge. Right. This is about forty five minute drive

1:07:46.800 --> 1:07:50.840
<v Speaker 2>familiar with him in those days. A fifty five dollar

1:07:51.000 --> 1:07:56.560
<v Speaker 2>cab ride gotcha even back then. So I said, man, Man,

1:07:56.560 --> 1:07:58.400
<v Speaker 2>I ain't got no money to come out there. He said, look,

1:07:58.920 --> 1:08:01.320
<v Speaker 2>get in a cab and when the cav get here,

1:08:01.400 --> 1:08:04.720
<v Speaker 2>I come out and pay for it. So I go

1:08:04.800 --> 1:08:07.480
<v Speaker 2>out to the house boat. He's sitting in the houseboat.

1:08:07.920 --> 1:08:10.520
<v Speaker 2>It was his guitar, got a kpo on it. You

1:08:10.800 --> 1:08:12.320
<v Speaker 2>just played it with the cape on it, so you know,

1:08:12.800 --> 1:08:18.360
<v Speaker 2>straw of the guitar. And he's looking over into San Francisco.

1:08:19.280 --> 1:08:24.040
<v Speaker 2>He's working on sitting on the doct La Bay, and

1:08:24.080 --> 1:08:27.719
<v Speaker 2>he said, what you think. I said, Man, I don't know, shit,

1:08:27.920 --> 1:08:30.880
<v Speaker 2>I don't know. He said, man, come on, man, just

1:08:32.160 --> 1:08:34.880
<v Speaker 2>tell me. Even I said, I don't know what it is.

1:08:35.080 --> 1:08:37.960
<v Speaker 2>But that's what ended up being sitting on the Doctor

1:08:38.000 --> 1:08:38.280
<v Speaker 2>La Bay.

1:08:50.840 --> 1:08:53.920
<v Speaker 1>Can you talk about one of the most pivotal shows,

1:08:54.560 --> 1:08:58.160
<v Speaker 1>one of the most important shows for him, probably historically speaking,

1:08:58.200 --> 1:09:02.720
<v Speaker 1>one of the most pivotal shows and post modern rock

1:09:02.840 --> 1:09:09.280
<v Speaker 1>history is doing the Monterey Pop Festival show. I believe

1:09:09.320 --> 1:09:12.200
<v Speaker 1>this is the same show in which Who and Hendrix

1:09:12.240 --> 1:09:15.599
<v Speaker 1>is where Hendrick says his guitarfire and all that, But

1:09:15.880 --> 1:09:21.240
<v Speaker 1>I know that he made such an impression on that audience.

1:09:21.520 --> 1:09:25.000
<v Speaker 1>And am I to assume that was like really the

1:09:25.040 --> 1:09:30.639
<v Speaker 1>first time in which hippies or non black audiences got

1:09:30.640 --> 1:09:32.639
<v Speaker 1>their taste of like Otis Redding live.

1:09:34.439 --> 1:09:36.800
<v Speaker 2>It was a little before then. They had before they

1:09:37.000 --> 1:09:39.640
<v Speaker 2>did the Moneray thing, they had gone to Europe. I

1:09:39.760 --> 1:09:43.360
<v Speaker 2>got you and you guys travel with him to Europe? No, No,

1:09:43.439 --> 1:09:46.600
<v Speaker 2>this was this was them. Okay, got you Monterey. We

1:09:46.600 --> 1:09:49.320
<v Speaker 2>didn't do any of that. They still was using got You.

1:09:49.840 --> 1:09:51.760
<v Speaker 2>But you know, that was one of those guys that

1:09:51.880 --> 1:09:55.120
<v Speaker 2>was always around. So I ended up being kind of

1:09:55.160 --> 1:09:58.519
<v Speaker 2>like a gopher. Okay, go get this, go get that,

1:09:58.600 --> 1:10:01.360
<v Speaker 2>you know. So I traveled around you. So I got chests.

1:10:01.800 --> 1:10:04.479
<v Speaker 2>I didn't go to Mona Ray, but I went. He

1:10:04.520 --> 1:10:07.000
<v Speaker 2>did something at the whiskey of Go Go down in

1:10:07.200 --> 1:10:09.400
<v Speaker 2>La so I watched it. I went there with him.

1:10:09.439 --> 1:10:11.839
<v Speaker 2>I believe he recorded that show live. Yeah, he recorded

1:10:11.840 --> 1:10:14.479
<v Speaker 2>that show live and live album and all that. You know,

1:10:14.560 --> 1:10:16.639
<v Speaker 2>he kind of kind of like took me under his wing,

1:10:17.120 --> 1:10:20.000
<v Speaker 2>I mean, because you know, he was always confided me

1:10:20.320 --> 1:10:22.720
<v Speaker 2>and I didn't. I who am I to confide in?

1:10:22.880 --> 1:10:25.160
<v Speaker 2>I mean, you know, he just wanted to talk to somebody,

1:10:25.400 --> 1:10:29.760
<v Speaker 2>I mean, very just brilliant, up beyond his years. His

1:10:29.920 --> 1:10:32.920
<v Speaker 2>thing was, why the hell would you create a song

1:10:34.280 --> 1:10:36.760
<v Speaker 2>and give it, give the ownership of that song to

1:10:36.800 --> 1:10:39.760
<v Speaker 2>a record company. They didn't have shit to do with

1:10:39.800 --> 1:10:42.960
<v Speaker 2>the song. Why would you give a song to them?

1:10:43.400 --> 1:10:46.240
<v Speaker 2>We didn't know no better. The first song that we recorded,

1:10:46.280 --> 1:10:49.439
<v Speaker 2>which was soul Finger, we didn't have none of the

1:10:49.560 --> 1:10:51.479
<v Speaker 2>we didn't know none of the publishers, so we just

1:10:51.520 --> 1:10:57.160
<v Speaker 2>got writers on that song. Unbeknownst to us, that song

1:10:57.280 --> 1:11:01.280
<v Speaker 2>was recorded in nineteen sixty seven. That song is fifty

1:11:01.320 --> 1:11:06.160
<v Speaker 2>eight years old. Our catalog is three hundred and fifty songs.

1:11:07.080 --> 1:11:11.400
<v Speaker 2>There's been no song in our catalog to beat soul

1:11:11.479 --> 1:11:14.040
<v Speaker 2>Finger out of the three hundred and fifth I'm talking

1:11:14.040 --> 1:11:18.320
<v Speaker 2>about hitting notice, hitting all of that. Soul Finger is

1:11:18.360 --> 1:11:21.400
<v Speaker 2>the crown jewels, just the money making it to make

1:11:21.479 --> 1:11:26.719
<v Speaker 2>more money than any song at one song, just publishing, writers, everything.

1:11:26.760 --> 1:11:30.200
<v Speaker 2>It makes on an average of about even now, about

1:11:31.240 --> 1:11:34.599
<v Speaker 2>sixty grand a year. So if we ain't on the publishing,

1:11:35.800 --> 1:11:37.640
<v Speaker 2>we would be getting you know, we'd be splitting up

1:11:37.640 --> 1:11:40.960
<v Speaker 2>sixty grand. But since we didn't, we're getting thirty grand

1:11:41.000 --> 1:11:44.640
<v Speaker 2>and splitting thirty grand five ways, got you, got you?

1:11:44.640 --> 1:11:48.000
<v Speaker 1>You know, we didn't know even to this day when

1:11:48.040 --> 1:11:51.280
<v Speaker 1>December tenth comes up, do you feel the events of

1:11:51.320 --> 1:11:52.080
<v Speaker 1>that day at all?

1:11:53.280 --> 1:11:56.800
<v Speaker 2>No question. I don't know if you saw what I

1:11:56.840 --> 1:12:00.240
<v Speaker 2>did this December tenth, No, I think I didn't. I've

1:12:00.280 --> 1:12:02.719
<v Speaker 2>sent it to you, okay, And I mean I always

1:12:03.120 --> 1:12:06.519
<v Speaker 2>pay homage to those guys because we had so much

1:12:06.560 --> 1:12:09.400
<v Speaker 2>fun and you know, learned a lot.

1:12:09.600 --> 1:12:12.920
<v Speaker 1>The whole land he walked me through, like December ninth,

1:12:13.000 --> 1:12:15.160
<v Speaker 1>like the day before, just whatever that time period was.

1:12:15.240 --> 1:12:18.320
<v Speaker 2>Like December the ninth, we had a show in Nashville, Tennessee,

1:12:18.320 --> 1:12:22.840
<v Speaker 2>at Vanderbilt University. No, this was December the eighth. Vanderbilt

1:12:22.880 --> 1:12:26.240
<v Speaker 2>was like the Harbor of the South. We had to

1:12:26.320 --> 1:12:31.200
<v Speaker 2>show barcades and oldis reading at Vanderbilt University. So we

1:12:31.200 --> 1:12:34.200
<v Speaker 2>were supposed to We played Nashville. Then we supposed to

1:12:34.240 --> 1:12:39.559
<v Speaker 2>play Cleveland, Ohio December the ninth. So rather than spend

1:12:39.600 --> 1:12:42.679
<v Speaker 2>the night in Nashville, because he had his own plane,

1:12:43.200 --> 1:12:47.720
<v Speaker 2>Hey man, the o Jays and the Temptations in Cleveland.

1:12:48.680 --> 1:12:50.600
<v Speaker 2>When we get through it our show, let's take the

1:12:50.640 --> 1:12:53.320
<v Speaker 2>plane and fly to Cleveland and catch their last show

1:12:53.320 --> 1:12:55.760
<v Speaker 2>because they was doing two shows or early show in

1:12:55.800 --> 1:12:58.559
<v Speaker 2>the late show. So we left and went to the

1:12:58.600 --> 1:13:00.439
<v Speaker 2>place which we were going to be playing there Deceb

1:13:00.439 --> 1:13:02.680
<v Speaker 2>of the ninth. The Temptations of Ojas were there ow

1:13:02.760 --> 1:13:07.600
<v Speaker 2>de some of the eighth OJ's were opening act, and

1:13:07.640 --> 1:13:10.080
<v Speaker 2>I mean the Temptations were on fire at that point

1:13:11.080 --> 1:13:14.080
<v Speaker 2>and the Ojs, this was back when they had five members.

1:13:15.160 --> 1:13:20.400
<v Speaker 2>The Ojays turned it out. They had one song. They

1:13:20.400 --> 1:13:24.600
<v Speaker 2>had a song called I'll be Sweeter Tomorrow than I

1:13:24.840 --> 1:13:29.400
<v Speaker 2>Was yesterday. When they got through doing that song, I mean,

1:13:29.400 --> 1:13:32.639
<v Speaker 2>people just stood up. I mean kind of like about

1:13:32.640 --> 1:13:36.080
<v Speaker 2>a ten minute standing ovation. The Temps didn't want to

1:13:36.080 --> 1:13:37.800
<v Speaker 2>come out. Now the Temps, man, you they had all

1:13:37.800 --> 1:13:41.240
<v Speaker 2>these hits, and you know the Temps, they were there, tall,

1:13:41.760 --> 1:13:44.000
<v Speaker 2>well dressed. They were the shit.

1:13:44.080 --> 1:13:46.479
<v Speaker 1>Addie live hert don't play fair. Yeah, I've seen him

1:13:46.520 --> 1:13:48.479
<v Speaker 1>many times in concert. He does not play fair.

1:13:49.920 --> 1:13:52.720
<v Speaker 2>They came out there and they ripped it right. So,

1:13:53.160 --> 1:13:54.560
<v Speaker 2>you know, being around a lot of that kind of

1:13:54.600 --> 1:13:57.800
<v Speaker 2>stuff like that, you know, we came to an era

1:13:57.880 --> 1:13:59.600
<v Speaker 2>where we're gonna I don't know if you know an

1:13:59.600 --> 1:14:02.000
<v Speaker 2>think about it. You ever heard of people said we're

1:14:02.000 --> 1:14:04.840
<v Speaker 2>gonna We're gonna cut your head. Yeah, ah, you know

1:14:04.920 --> 1:14:07.479
<v Speaker 2>our head cutting. I mean, I'm in a band, you're

1:14:07.520 --> 1:14:09.840
<v Speaker 2>the ban I'm in the band. So we had we

1:14:09.960 --> 1:14:12.400
<v Speaker 2>know it's time to We did some battles with Cameo.

1:14:12.880 --> 1:14:16.240
<v Speaker 2>That was one of our main battle groups. But anyway,

1:14:16.880 --> 1:14:19.719
<v Speaker 2>I'm gonna get to that. They kicked and you said

1:14:19.720 --> 1:14:22.559
<v Speaker 2>the OJ's kicked the Thames Ass. The same one kicked

1:14:22.600 --> 1:14:27.200
<v Speaker 2>the ass smoked them and they only had one hit.

1:14:27.560 --> 1:14:30.400
<v Speaker 2>Tims had multiple hits. That's all it takes. This is

1:14:30.439 --> 1:14:33.960
<v Speaker 2>when David Ruffin was in the group. Got you David Ruffin,

1:14:34.120 --> 1:14:39.360
<v Speaker 2>Eddie Kendricks, Paul Williams, Otis Williams, and who am I missing?

1:14:39.439 --> 1:14:42.679
<v Speaker 2>Melvin Melvin Melvin Frankly, Yes, oh I cannot forget.

1:14:42.760 --> 1:14:46.920
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, you were saying that Otis in the Barcades went

1:14:46.960 --> 1:14:50.040
<v Speaker 1>to Ohio to go see the Temps and the OJ's.

1:14:51.560 --> 1:14:54.360
<v Speaker 1>But how does that lead to December tenth of sixty

1:14:54.400 --> 1:14:55.759
<v Speaker 1>seven when the crash happens.

1:14:55.840 --> 1:14:58.920
<v Speaker 2>Well, it was okay. They played on December the eighth,

1:14:59.040 --> 1:15:01.439
<v Speaker 2>We played on the ninth the Barcades and Otis we

1:15:01.479 --> 1:15:03.800
<v Speaker 2>played at the same club. That was the last That

1:15:03.920 --> 1:15:06.960
<v Speaker 2>was the last time that. Man, it was one hell

1:15:06.960 --> 1:15:08.920
<v Speaker 2>of a show because in the daytime, we did a

1:15:08.960 --> 1:15:13.920
<v Speaker 2>TV show called Upbeat. Okay, you you probably may have

1:15:13.920 --> 1:15:17.320
<v Speaker 2>seen that. Class said, yeah, I mean that was live.

1:15:18.880 --> 1:15:21.160
<v Speaker 2>I mean it wasn't about two mics at that thing.

1:15:21.560 --> 1:15:24.280
<v Speaker 2>Got you. We recorded that got you. That was the

1:15:24.320 --> 1:15:28.519
<v Speaker 2>last time we did it. And normally the morning of

1:15:28.560 --> 1:15:31.120
<v Speaker 2>the tenth normally I would be on the private plane

1:15:31.280 --> 1:15:34.880
<v Speaker 2>with them, but the plane could only carry a certain

1:15:34.920 --> 1:15:37.840
<v Speaker 2>amount of people, and two people always had to fly commercial.

1:15:38.680 --> 1:15:40.680
<v Speaker 2>This particular day I happened to just be one of

1:15:40.680 --> 1:15:44.080
<v Speaker 2>the people to fly commercial. How is that decision made? Man?

1:15:44.479 --> 1:15:46.639
<v Speaker 2>Because what I said, I said, you know, we always

1:15:46.640 --> 1:15:49.040
<v Speaker 2>would have you know, we didn't have you know, they

1:15:50.040 --> 1:15:54.320
<v Speaker 2>promoted and you know rich you know, car service and

1:15:54.360 --> 1:15:58.599
<v Speaker 2>no limos like that. We just got two vans, uh

1:15:58.600 --> 1:16:01.000
<v Speaker 2>two station wide whatever they had at the rental car place,

1:16:01.640 --> 1:16:04.000
<v Speaker 2>and so somebody had to turn the rental vehicles in.

1:16:04.360 --> 1:16:07.160
<v Speaker 2>So me and the other guy we opted to turn

1:16:07.200 --> 1:16:10.920
<v Speaker 2>the renal vehicle. A guy by the name of Carl Sims. Okay,

1:16:11.040 --> 1:16:13.160
<v Speaker 2>he was kind of like the singer. He was like

1:16:13.240 --> 1:16:15.679
<v Speaker 2>this guy, we come on to do one number before

1:16:15.720 --> 1:16:17.920
<v Speaker 2>we come on. He come on to do one number?

1:16:17.920 --> 1:16:19.760
<v Speaker 2>Did we come on to do maybe three numbers? Then

1:16:19.800 --> 1:16:23.080
<v Speaker 2>we bring o this song got you. So we turned

1:16:23.120 --> 1:16:26.640
<v Speaker 2>the rental vehicles in and we dropped them off at

1:16:26.640 --> 1:16:30.000
<v Speaker 2>the at the hangar what a private plane was. Then

1:16:30.000 --> 1:16:32.320
<v Speaker 2>we turned the rental vehicle and the then we catch

1:16:32.720 --> 1:16:35.920
<v Speaker 2>take a commercial flight to the next show. Where is

1:16:35.960 --> 1:16:39.280
<v Speaker 2>the next show? It's supposed to be in Madison, Wisconsin,

1:16:41.400 --> 1:16:48.759
<v Speaker 2>at the University of Wisconsin Stubblefield. So the pilot said, hey, man,

1:16:49.880 --> 1:16:53.000
<v Speaker 2>rether Than, y'all flying all the way to Madison. Why

1:16:53.000 --> 1:16:57.439
<v Speaker 2>don't y'all fly from Cleveland to Milwaukee. I dropped them

1:16:57.479 --> 1:17:01.320
<v Speaker 2>off in Madison and then come back across Lake Michigan

1:17:01.320 --> 1:17:04.640
<v Speaker 2>to pick y'all up and then bring y'all back to Madison.

1:17:05.600 --> 1:17:09.519
<v Speaker 2>So we flew to Milwaukee. So we sat and waiting

1:17:10.479 --> 1:17:13.200
<v Speaker 2>on them to come, and so it started getting late.

1:17:13.280 --> 1:17:17.040
<v Speaker 2>It started getting around four or five o'clock. No plane.

1:17:17.080 --> 1:17:18.960
<v Speaker 2>And then you know, back in those days, you know,

1:17:19.000 --> 1:17:21.960
<v Speaker 2>you didn't have technology, like, yeah, you need those cell phones,

1:17:22.200 --> 1:17:25.040
<v Speaker 2>a payphone. You had to go then you call home,

1:17:25.080 --> 1:17:27.719
<v Speaker 2>you know, you call and collect or something like something

1:17:27.760 --> 1:17:31.720
<v Speaker 2>like that. So we start just calling and then we

1:17:31.840 --> 1:17:37.240
<v Speaker 2>called around where's the plane? Nobody could tell us any information,

1:17:37.760 --> 1:17:40.360
<v Speaker 2>and so finally we were at we were already at

1:17:40.400 --> 1:17:42.440
<v Speaker 2>the airport in Milwaukee, so we called.

1:17:42.600 --> 1:17:46.840
<v Speaker 1>Can I is the private air hangar aware that they're

1:17:46.880 --> 1:17:49.200
<v Speaker 1>supposed to receive a plane to come in?

1:17:49.400 --> 1:17:52.920
<v Speaker 2>Like are they in the Madison Yes? Yeah, okay, And

1:17:52.960 --> 1:17:55.800
<v Speaker 2>so even for all the hours that are going by,

1:17:55.960 --> 1:17:59.960
<v Speaker 2>they're unaware. They're unaware. I mean, you know, the communications

1:18:00.160 --> 1:18:03.040
<v Speaker 2>system was not what it is now. You know, everything

1:18:03.120 --> 1:18:06.680
<v Speaker 2>is right now, got you, yeah, in real time right,

1:18:07.160 --> 1:18:09.600
<v Speaker 2>But it wasn't like that then. So ours went to

1:18:09.840 --> 1:18:12.519
<v Speaker 2>so we kept calling, kept calling, and they said, well,

1:18:13.120 --> 1:18:16.000
<v Speaker 2>we lost the plane on the radars. Whereas they still

1:18:16.000 --> 1:18:19.080
<v Speaker 2>didn't know anything. So maybe an hour so late, they said,

1:18:19.080 --> 1:18:22.840
<v Speaker 2>well we lost the plane on the radar. We think

1:18:22.880 --> 1:18:27.120
<v Speaker 2>the plane went down. And that's all they could tell us.

1:18:27.120 --> 1:18:29.360
<v Speaker 2>They couldn't tell us nothing else was any all of

1:18:29.400 --> 1:18:32.680
<v Speaker 2>a way to tell you, like just all casual, just

1:18:32.760 --> 1:18:38.200
<v Speaker 2>like that. So we in Milwaukee. So later on about

1:18:38.200 --> 1:18:43.519
<v Speaker 2>another hour passed by, and so we called and they said, well,

1:18:44.040 --> 1:18:47.479
<v Speaker 2>the authorities coming from Madison back to Milwaukee to pick

1:18:47.560 --> 1:18:50.760
<v Speaker 2>y'all up. So they came to Milwaukee, picked us up

1:18:50.800 --> 1:18:52.400
<v Speaker 2>and drove us back to Madison.

1:18:52.640 --> 1:18:55.599
<v Speaker 1>By then they had known what what are you thinking

1:18:55.600 --> 1:18:56.280
<v Speaker 1>in that drive?

1:18:56.800 --> 1:18:59.360
<v Speaker 2>I'm known, I'm not thinking. I don't I don't know

1:18:59.400 --> 1:19:02.160
<v Speaker 2>what the thing no matter, I'm seventeen years old, so

1:19:02.200 --> 1:19:05.840
<v Speaker 2>I don't know what to think. Oh God, okay. So

1:19:06.920 --> 1:19:11.360
<v Speaker 2>we get to Madison. They put us up in the hotel.

1:19:11.560 --> 1:19:16.120
<v Speaker 2>They said, well, the plane did go down. There were

1:19:16.160 --> 1:19:21.679
<v Speaker 2>no survivors. The only survivor was a guy they didn't

1:19:21.680 --> 1:19:24.920
<v Speaker 2>even know, they didn't know what was being called. But

1:19:25.000 --> 1:19:28.840
<v Speaker 2>he was in the hospital. So I said, well, can

1:19:28.840 --> 1:19:31.479
<v Speaker 2>you can you take me to the hospital. So I

1:19:31.520 --> 1:19:34.080
<v Speaker 2>went to the hospital to see him, and he just

1:19:34.120 --> 1:19:36.439
<v Speaker 2>laying up in the bed. He was like in shock.

1:19:37.960 --> 1:19:41.000
<v Speaker 2>If you ever seen a person in shock. I mean

1:19:41.040 --> 1:19:43.280
<v Speaker 2>he was just there with his eyes open, laying back

1:19:43.280 --> 1:19:45.400
<v Speaker 2>in the bed that Ben put my hand in front of.

1:19:46.520 --> 1:19:49.040
<v Speaker 2>He couldn't say anything, he couldn't move, couldn't say anything.

1:19:50.240 --> 1:19:54.000
<v Speaker 2>So it took us back to the hotel and they said, well,

1:19:55.320 --> 1:19:57.920
<v Speaker 2>since you and the other gentleman y'all lay on the

1:19:57.960 --> 1:20:02.200
<v Speaker 2>two people here, y'all will have to as we find people,

1:20:03.640 --> 1:20:05.360
<v Speaker 2>y'all would have to identify the bodies.

1:20:06.200 --> 1:20:08.559
<v Speaker 1>I always wanted to ask you how you felt about

1:20:09.040 --> 1:20:12.360
<v Speaker 1>Jet Magazine's treatment of this moment. But because that's how

1:20:12.400 --> 1:20:16.000
<v Speaker 1>I learned this story and who you were via my

1:20:16.120 --> 1:20:17.680
<v Speaker 1>aunt had that Jet magazine.

1:20:18.240 --> 1:20:21.800
<v Speaker 2>The Jet Magazine was notorious. I mean, you know they

1:20:21.840 --> 1:20:23.920
<v Speaker 2>did the mantel and yeah, that much. I do know

1:20:24.000 --> 1:20:28.680
<v Speaker 2>all that stuff. Yeah. So by this time later on,

1:20:29.320 --> 1:20:32.439
<v Speaker 2>this was like on a Sunday. Of course, they had

1:20:32.479 --> 1:20:38.919
<v Speaker 2>notified Zelma, Otis's wife, and she had flown to Madison.

1:20:39.880 --> 1:20:42.599
<v Speaker 2>They put us all in the same hotel. So when

1:20:42.680 --> 1:20:45.160
<v Speaker 2>Zelma got to the hotel, I went down to her room,

1:20:45.200 --> 1:20:47.679
<v Speaker 2>and you know, we consoled each other a little bit.

1:20:48.360 --> 1:20:50.960
<v Speaker 2>I mean, and it's weird because with much crime, I mean,

1:20:51.600 --> 1:20:54.439
<v Speaker 2>at that point we all still was in shock. We

1:20:54.520 --> 1:20:57.880
<v Speaker 2>weren't crying or anything like that. But I remember Zelma

1:20:57.960 --> 1:21:02.439
<v Speaker 2>telling me, she said, James, whenever they found my husband,

1:21:03.040 --> 1:21:06.120
<v Speaker 2>would you be willing to identify him? And I said,

1:21:06.280 --> 1:21:08.920
<v Speaker 2>and I'm seventeen years old, right, so I had to

1:21:08.920 --> 1:21:11.439
<v Speaker 2>identified the rest of the people too, So I said,

1:21:11.479 --> 1:21:14.800
<v Speaker 2>of course. It was like the second or third day

1:21:14.840 --> 1:21:19.439
<v Speaker 2>before they found Otis, And when they found him, it

1:21:19.560 --> 1:21:22.439
<v Speaker 2>had him on a dolly. He still was strapped into

1:21:22.560 --> 1:21:26.160
<v Speaker 2>his step because he was in the co palot seat,

1:21:26.200 --> 1:21:29.439
<v Speaker 2>sitting in the co pola seat because his aircraft didn't

1:21:29.520 --> 1:21:32.000
<v Speaker 2>require you to have a pallet and a copalot, just

1:21:32.040 --> 1:21:35.719
<v Speaker 2>a palette. So we would all take turns of sitting

1:21:35.720 --> 1:21:39.880
<v Speaker 2>in the co palot seat when we flying, because you know,

1:21:40.840 --> 1:21:43.320
<v Speaker 2>you're thinking you the copalat of it, all right, you know,

1:21:44.000 --> 1:21:46.200
<v Speaker 2>so ODIs was sitting in the co poala seat, and

1:21:46.280 --> 1:21:49.120
<v Speaker 2>so when they found him, he was still in the

1:21:49.160 --> 1:21:50.640
<v Speaker 2>co pala seat.

1:21:51.040 --> 1:21:55.439
<v Speaker 1>For our people listening right now, as I mentioned before,

1:21:55.840 --> 1:21:59.120
<v Speaker 1>kind of what brought you know, if you go to

1:21:59.240 --> 1:22:02.200
<v Speaker 1>any beauty shop, for barbershop or whatever, you know, an

1:22:02.240 --> 1:22:05.320
<v Speaker 1>older parents' house, like there's jet and ebony or like

1:22:05.680 --> 1:22:11.240
<v Speaker 1>staples in any household, any barbershop, any black gathering, non church.

1:22:12.040 --> 1:22:14.839
<v Speaker 1>Of course, they really made their mark because I Matil's

1:22:14.880 --> 1:22:20.240
<v Speaker 1>mother gave them permission to show what his face looked

1:22:20.280 --> 1:22:21.920
<v Speaker 1>like after they murdered him, and that you know, of

1:22:21.960 --> 1:22:23.400
<v Speaker 1>course started the civil rights period.

1:22:24.800 --> 1:22:28.480
<v Speaker 2>My aunt, who loved.

1:22:28.120 --> 1:22:33.640
<v Speaker 1>Otis Redding, kept the Jet magazine, and of course I

1:22:33.640 --> 1:22:40.559
<v Speaker 1>guess photographers were on the scene and they showed his body,

1:22:41.040 --> 1:22:46.000
<v Speaker 1>and I guess the because it was December and the

1:22:46.040 --> 1:22:46.960
<v Speaker 1>water was freezing.

1:22:47.600 --> 1:22:49.880
<v Speaker 2>He was frozen. Yeah, he was frozen, but it.

1:22:49.880 --> 1:22:52.080
<v Speaker 1>Was like the look on his face was almost like

1:22:52.160 --> 1:22:55.680
<v Speaker 1>it was frozen in time of That horned me like

1:22:55.880 --> 1:23:00.599
<v Speaker 1>no other photo ever, and I always wanted to know,

1:23:01.160 --> 1:23:03.840
<v Speaker 1>like not did you guys think that was in poor

1:23:03.920 --> 1:23:07.280
<v Speaker 1>taste or whatever, like or even considering what his widow

1:23:07.280 --> 1:23:10.559
<v Speaker 1>would think or that sort of thing. But like I

1:23:10.680 --> 1:23:14.080
<v Speaker 1>remember that photo first, and then going through my father's

1:23:14.080 --> 1:23:19.360
<v Speaker 1>records to learn about Otis Redding, and then you know again,

1:23:19.400 --> 1:23:23.639
<v Speaker 1>I give up in three thousand album Household. So when

1:23:24.760 --> 1:23:28.639
<v Speaker 1>I guess my father purchased to How to Stop.

1:23:29.880 --> 1:23:30.679
<v Speaker 2>Then my mom.

1:23:30.560 --> 1:23:34.439
<v Speaker 1>Explained to me that this is the new version of

1:23:34.479 --> 1:23:37.599
<v Speaker 1>the band from Aunt Barber's. Like she had to explain

1:23:37.680 --> 1:23:39.280
<v Speaker 1>to me sort of backwards to the story of the

1:23:39.280 --> 1:23:40.519
<v Speaker 1>barcades and all those things.

1:23:40.520 --> 1:23:45.400
<v Speaker 2>Are you all about that? Yeah? Man, wow, I'm a

1:23:47.400 --> 1:23:48.439
<v Speaker 2>I was just five at the time.

1:23:48.520 --> 1:23:51.240
<v Speaker 1>Yes, at five six seven, I probably had the knowledge

1:23:51.280 --> 1:23:53.800
<v Speaker 1>of a twenty year old, Like that's just who my

1:23:53.800 --> 1:23:57.120
<v Speaker 1>my family was. Okay, So you know, of course, today,

1:23:57.760 --> 1:24:04.080
<v Speaker 1>trauma experiences are nothing new for black creatives, especially like

1:24:04.280 --> 1:24:09.599
<v Speaker 1>music is usually our therapy o, our cathartic release. Did

1:24:09.640 --> 1:24:13.800
<v Speaker 1>you allow yourself to mentally deal with that sort of

1:24:13.800 --> 1:24:16.240
<v Speaker 1>trauma or that loss, like is it over?

1:24:16.560 --> 1:24:20.360
<v Speaker 2>Is it? What do you do? No, everything happened so fast.

1:24:20.720 --> 1:24:23.479
<v Speaker 2>That thing didn't really hit me the way it it

1:24:23.600 --> 1:24:26.160
<v Speaker 2>hit being called it hit me one way, it hit

1:24:26.280 --> 1:24:28.120
<v Speaker 2>him a whole nother way. How did it hit you?

1:24:28.840 --> 1:24:31.240
<v Speaker 2>I mean I was just numb the whole time about it.

1:24:31.360 --> 1:24:35.839
<v Speaker 2>And what happened is I mean before all of the films,

1:24:36.439 --> 1:24:42.840
<v Speaker 2>Jim stood and Alball called me to Stacks and said, James,

1:24:43.320 --> 1:24:46.640
<v Speaker 2>I mean, I know this is a difficult time, but

1:24:47.080 --> 1:24:49.160
<v Speaker 2>they said these words. They said, we want to know

1:24:49.600 --> 1:24:53.080
<v Speaker 2>if you want to if you want to continue. I

1:24:53.360 --> 1:24:57.560
<v Speaker 2>didn't even think about it. I said yes, being called

1:24:57.680 --> 1:24:59.920
<v Speaker 2>he didn't want to do anything he did. He said, Jame,

1:25:00.120 --> 1:25:01.400
<v Speaker 2>you got it. I did.

1:25:01.560 --> 1:25:03.840
<v Speaker 1>Can you tell me what his version of being in

1:25:03.840 --> 1:25:05.360
<v Speaker 1>that plane and how he escaped.

1:25:06.360 --> 1:25:10.879
<v Speaker 2>Ben told me that before the plane took off from Cleveland,

1:25:10.920 --> 1:25:13.720
<v Speaker 2>O how it didn't feel right because she said and said,

1:25:13.720 --> 1:25:15.200
<v Speaker 2>I don't know this to be true or notough, but

1:25:15.240 --> 1:25:18.639
<v Speaker 2>he said the battery was lower, the battery they controlled

1:25:18.640 --> 1:25:21.200
<v Speaker 2>the plane was loading and they had to get a

1:25:21.240 --> 1:25:23.160
<v Speaker 2>boost off or something like that. I can't measine a

1:25:23.200 --> 1:25:25.240
<v Speaker 2>plane getting a boost off. But I guess you know,

1:25:25.400 --> 1:25:27.680
<v Speaker 2>it runs by. You know, I was kind of like

1:25:27.760 --> 1:25:30.840
<v Speaker 2>if your car breaks down and you do that. Oh okay,

1:25:30.920 --> 1:25:34.360
<v Speaker 2>he said from him, something was not right up from

1:25:34.360 --> 1:25:38.599
<v Speaker 2>the beginning. So when the plane started having you know,

1:25:38.960 --> 1:25:41.360
<v Speaker 2>just you know, he woke up and the plane was

1:25:41.360 --> 1:25:44.639
<v Speaker 2>having problems. Then the next thing he know, the plane

1:25:44.680 --> 1:25:47.559
<v Speaker 2>was in a spiral. By this time, people were waking

1:25:47.640 --> 1:25:51.120
<v Speaker 2>up because everybody was sleep and the plane when the

1:25:51.160 --> 1:25:54.800
<v Speaker 2>plane impacted when it hit the lake. The plane hit

1:25:54.840 --> 1:25:58.360
<v Speaker 2>the lake and then it broke in half. So Ben

1:25:58.520 --> 1:26:02.920
<v Speaker 2>call it happened to be the only person on the plane.

1:26:03.880 --> 1:26:08.680
<v Speaker 2>They couldn't swim, and he survived. I just only imagine

1:26:09.720 --> 1:26:16.360
<v Speaker 2>just recollecting everything. Okay, everybody was asleep. You wake up,

1:26:17.280 --> 1:26:21.040
<v Speaker 2>you still kind of like groggy. You don't know what's happening.

1:26:22.160 --> 1:26:25.679
<v Speaker 2>But whatever's happening, and it ain't right. Then the next

1:26:25.720 --> 1:26:28.719
<v Speaker 2>thing you know, the plane is you know, it's happened

1:26:28.760 --> 1:26:32.160
<v Speaker 2>so massive and it threw everybody out in the water.

1:26:32.800 --> 1:26:35.040
<v Speaker 2>The people that because you know, probably some people didn't

1:26:35.040 --> 1:26:36.920
<v Speaker 2>have the seatbelt songs, so the.

1:26:36.880 --> 1:26:40.599
<v Speaker 1>Weight of the seats, yeah, took them into the box.

1:26:40.680 --> 1:26:45.160
<v Speaker 1>So Ben was able to dismantle his seatbelt and free himself.

1:26:45.600 --> 1:26:47.600
<v Speaker 2>He may not even have a seatbelt on. He was

1:26:47.640 --> 1:26:52.200
<v Speaker 2>just thrown out into the water. And from what I understand,

1:26:52.240 --> 1:26:57.000
<v Speaker 2>there was a guy out in the lake just I mean,

1:26:57.000 --> 1:27:00.640
<v Speaker 2>he wouldn't because you know, Madison Westcombe was cold. Is

1:27:00.680 --> 1:27:06.000
<v Speaker 2>this a nighttime or daytime? Afternoon? Okay? Okay? So the

1:27:06.120 --> 1:27:09.920
<v Speaker 2>guy that boat at winter so he he got over

1:27:09.960 --> 1:27:13.240
<v Speaker 2>there with his boat. But Ben was the only person

1:27:13.240 --> 1:27:17.040
<v Speaker 2>that he saw, because according to Bend, he had seen

1:27:17.120 --> 1:27:20.920
<v Speaker 2>several people come up out of the lake, you know,

1:27:21.360 --> 1:27:25.599
<v Speaker 2>trying to say help, you know, and he was already

1:27:25.640 --> 1:27:27.439
<v Speaker 2>in shock, but he couldn't do anything anyway because he

1:27:27.439 --> 1:27:32.080
<v Speaker 2>couldn't swell. All he can remember is somebody pulled him

1:27:32.080 --> 1:27:34.640
<v Speaker 2>and put him in the boat and covered them up

1:27:34.680 --> 1:27:37.320
<v Speaker 2>with because he was shaking and stuff. Gotcha. It was

1:27:37.439 --> 1:27:42.000
<v Speaker 2>like it was below freezing that day. Yeah, December.

1:27:42.200 --> 1:27:47.000
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, when did you even start with the idea of okay,

1:27:47.120 --> 1:27:51.040
<v Speaker 1>let's rebuild a new band, Like how long did you

1:27:51.200 --> 1:27:53.800
<v Speaker 1>take off before you was like okay, let's get to it.

1:27:54.439 --> 1:28:00.280
<v Speaker 2>Okay. This happened in December nineteen sixty seven. By rule

1:28:00.520 --> 1:28:08.160
<v Speaker 2>of sixty eight, had already reformed a new band. All right, y'all,

1:28:08.200 --> 1:28:09.000
<v Speaker 2>that's going to do it.

1:28:09.080 --> 1:28:12.720
<v Speaker 1>For part one of our conversation with James Alexander of

1:28:12.880 --> 1:28:17.880
<v Speaker 1>the legendary Barcades, Please come back next week or check

1:28:17.920 --> 1:28:20.639
<v Speaker 1>out podcast feed for part two, and that we're probably

1:28:20.640 --> 1:28:23.320
<v Speaker 1>getting into the evolution of the Bark sound in the

1:28:23.360 --> 1:28:26.720
<v Speaker 1>seventies and the eighties, and the making of classics like

1:28:26.760 --> 1:28:29.839
<v Speaker 1>Holy Ghosts and Too Hot to Stop, the Battle, Stories

1:28:29.840 --> 1:28:32.719
<v Speaker 1>from the Road, and how James helped bridge the gap

1:28:32.760 --> 1:28:36.919
<v Speaker 1>into modern hip hop and Memphis. Oh, here's a nugget.

1:28:37.160 --> 1:28:41.000
<v Speaker 1>Holy Ghosts, my all time favorite Bark song, was recorded

1:28:41.400 --> 1:28:44.560
<v Speaker 1>years before we got to hear it. He also reveals

1:28:45.120 --> 1:28:47.920
<v Speaker 1>some credits behind the Barcades, including some of the nineteen

1:28:47.960 --> 1:28:51.960
<v Speaker 1>seventies classics. As we celebrate Black History Month, this is

1:28:52.080 --> 1:28:56.280
<v Speaker 1>music history, and yes, black history, and that is American history.

1:28:56.439 --> 1:28:59.280
<v Speaker 1>Always keep that in mind. We're just getting started, so

1:28:59.400 --> 1:29:03.360
<v Speaker 1>make sure you're subscribe, rate and review the show, and

1:29:03.439 --> 1:29:07.040
<v Speaker 1>we'll be back with part two of James Alexander on

1:29:07.560 --> 1:29:09.160
<v Speaker 1>The Quest Love Show.

1:29:09.520 --> 1:29:09.960
<v Speaker 2>All right.

1:29:11.000 --> 1:29:13.880
<v Speaker 1>The Quest Love Show is hosted by me Amir quest

1:29:13.880 --> 1:29:18.519
<v Speaker 1>Love Thompson. The executive producers are Sean G. Brian Calhoun

1:29:18.920 --> 1:29:25.479
<v Speaker 1>and Me. Produced by Brittany Benjamin and Jake Pain. Produced

1:29:25.520 --> 1:29:31.479
<v Speaker 1>for iHeart by Noel Brown, Edited by Alex Convoy. iHeart

1:29:31.560 --> 1:29:36.880
<v Speaker 1>Video support by Mark Canton, Logos Graphics and animation by

1:29:36.960 --> 1:29:41.280
<v Speaker 1>Nick Lowe. Additional support by Lance Coleman.

1:29:42.840 --> 1:29:44.240
<v Speaker 2>Special thanks to Kathy Brown.

1:29:45.760 --> 1:29:50.519
<v Speaker 1>Special thanks to Sugar Steve Mandel. Please subscribe, rate, review,

1:29:50.640 --> 1:29:52.120
<v Speaker 1>and share The Quest Love Show.

1:29:52.400 --> 1:29:55.200
<v Speaker 2>Wherever you stream your podcast, make sure.

1:29:55.080 --> 1:30:01.320
<v Speaker 1>You follow us on socials that's at q LS. Check

1:30:01.360 --> 1:30:04.679
<v Speaker 1>out hundreds and hundreds of QLs episodes, including the Quest

1:30:04.720 --> 1:30:07.080
<v Speaker 1>of Supreme shows and our podcast archives.

1:30:09.520 --> 1:30:12.200
<v Speaker 2>The Quest Love Show is the production of iHeartRadio.