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Speaker 1: Quest Left Show is a production of iHeart Radio.

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Speaker 2: All Right, y'all, this is a big one. All right.

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Speaker 1: So every year doing Black History Month, we honor the

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Speaker 1: innovators and the cultural architects, and today is no different.

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Speaker 1: For the past six decades, I will say that our

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Speaker 1: guests has been an amazing, powerful force in music. Definitely

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Speaker 1: an influence in my life and how I hear things. Basically,

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Speaker 1: our guest is one of the musical delegates, the musical

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Speaker 1: forces from Memphis that we don't talk about enough.

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Speaker 2: We do not talk about.

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Speaker 1: Memphis is such a force of music that it rarely

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Speaker 1: gets the.

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Speaker 2: Light that it deserves.

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Speaker 1: And as a member of the legendary band the bar Kas,

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Speaker 1: you know, you know these songs from soul Finger to

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Speaker 1: Son of Shaft to Holy Ghosts, especially Holy Ghosts, which incidentally,

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Speaker 1: I think Holy ghost is one of the best examples

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Speaker 1: of giving the drummer some that excited an eight year

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Speaker 1: old questlove when he first heard that song. He's both

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Speaker 1: a member of the R and B, the Memphis Rock

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Speaker 1: and Roll Hall of Fame blending in and even then

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Speaker 1: that's reductive because if you listen to the early work

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Speaker 1: of their out like their level of rock excitement. It

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Speaker 1: was pretty much like no other band that you would

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Speaker 1: come across in that period of course, collaborating with legends

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Speaker 1: like the Great Otis Redding, with Isaac Hayes, touring the world,

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Speaker 1: spreading the funk. He's been mentioned in many aqls. So

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Speaker 1: shout out to Jimmy jam Hello, I want to welcome

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Speaker 1: the leader of the Barcads, James Alexander, to the Quest

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Speaker 1: Love Show.

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Speaker 2: Welcome, sir, how are you? What's going on? Man? How

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Speaker 2: are you? I had to stay up all night to

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Speaker 2: get here? Man?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I was gonna say I appreciate you. Right now

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Speaker 1: as we tape, New York is being threatened with as

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Speaker 1: I here describe something deeper than a Nor'easter, as they're

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Speaker 1: telling me. But yet you made it here on your own.

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Speaker 1: I know that we've been talking for the last couple

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Speaker 1: of years about you coming on the show, right again,

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Speaker 1: You've been mentioned a lot, and now the time has come,

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Speaker 1: and I thank you for coming here.

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Speaker 2: I sure, man. All right, So we're going to try

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Speaker 2: to get through your life from soup to nuts.

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Speaker 1: I do want what I call or derv So I

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Speaker 1: will start with this question of all of your barca.

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Speaker 2: Songs, which is your most favorite. That's a good one, now, dude,

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Speaker 2: I don't know. I mean, you know, well, your favorite

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Speaker 2: to play bass on, my favorite to play bass. So

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Speaker 2: would probably still be soul Fingers, believe it or not.

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Speaker 2: Soul Finger really yeah, I mean maybe you would understand this.

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Speaker 2: Soul Finger is just it's a song that's very near

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Speaker 2: and dear to me because in the process, you know,

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Speaker 2: groups sent tapes in to record comports and stuff or whatever.

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Speaker 2: But see, back in the day, we had to audition live.

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Speaker 2: So what happened is still be that way right now. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: so we were playing at a nightclub illegally of course,

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Speaker 2: because we were like, were underage. Yeah, how old were you?

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Speaker 2: Sixteen years old? Were they charting back then? For real?

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Speaker 2: For real? Yeah, of course they were charting like you

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Speaker 2: had to be over, Yeah, you had to be over.

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Speaker 2: And see, Memphis had the vice squad. The vice squad

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Speaker 2: is like it's like ice. Okay, of that. Musicians now

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Speaker 2: they come in Now they come in to a nightclub

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Speaker 2: and they check everybody in the nightclub. Check that out.

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Speaker 2: These if you're on the age, they didn't, they didn't

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Speaker 2: take you. The only thing now they need to take

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Speaker 2: you to jail. They just call your parents and tell

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Speaker 2: them to come pick your manners up and bring them home.

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Speaker 2: But anyway, okay, we're playing in this nightclub and we're

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Speaker 2: playing behind this guy by the name of Norman West

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Speaker 2: who's one of the members of the Soldierldren and we

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Speaker 2: planned a song by JJ Jackson call but it's all right.

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Speaker 2: So every night, now, mind you, you have to say

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Speaker 2: that we some youngsters. Every night we get to a

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Speaker 2: certain portion of the song and we do for a

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Speaker 2: lack of world or breakdown. But you know, sixteen years old,

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Speaker 2: we didn't know what he was doing, but we did

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Speaker 2: know this. We started looking around at each other and say,

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Speaker 2: oh damn, this is something here. So we remember that.

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Speaker 2: So we had to go on an audition that Stacks

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Speaker 2: Records and we auditioned Steve Crauffer was the A and

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Speaker 2: R guy. Okay, so we auditioned for him, and he said,

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Speaker 2: em I appreciate y'all coming up in an audition, but

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Speaker 2: you know, y'a just y'all don't quite have it. And

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Speaker 2: so you know, bust out a little bubble. Wait, I

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Speaker 2: tell you what, well, let you come back and do

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Speaker 2: it again. So we came back the second time. He

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Speaker 2: said no. But as we were leaving the second time,

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Speaker 2: a little short guy, little white guy by the name

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Speaker 2: of Jim Stewart. So he said, hey, man, what what's

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Speaker 2: going on here? I said, we just was up here auditions.

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Speaker 2: Who are y'all? We're just a little bad, he said,

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Speaker 2: I tell you what I saw everything that's been happening.

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Speaker 2: So with y'all come back up in audition for me.

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Speaker 2: Come on a Sunday. The studio is closed. Nobody be

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Speaker 2: here with me and y'all. So we came. So we

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Speaker 2: got to the studio and we started playing something. He said,

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Speaker 2: what is that? We don't I mean, well, man, we

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Speaker 2: don't know, we don't know what. We don't know what

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Speaker 2: the hell we're doing. We're just doing some shit. Okay,

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Speaker 2: you didn't name the songs or anything. We didn't.

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Speaker 1: Now, when you're auditioning, what's the repertoire? How long do

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Speaker 1: you have to make an impression? Is it one song,

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Speaker 1: two songs? Or for us, we.

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Speaker 2: Just played a little vibe. And because we had planned

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Speaker 2: this little vibe and the club every night, we said, shit,

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Speaker 2: we just started off with that little vibe. So he said,

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Speaker 2: what the hell is that? We don't know. But anyway,

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Speaker 2: he ran up in the control room. You know, it

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Speaker 2: wasn't no SSL, no leaves, nothing, a little boyed about

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Speaker 2: like this. You know. In fact, he had one of

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Speaker 2: the first four track scully tape machines, you know, thing

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Speaker 2: that the Beatles called Roger Peppers. Anyway, Yeah, he didn't

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Speaker 2: even have a talkback button, so he just gave us

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Speaker 2: a signal. She played from the top. Our trumpet player

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Speaker 2: came up with this little nursery rhyme horn line. But yeah,

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Speaker 2: and the drummer hit a break and it was on.

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Speaker 2: Then he said come up and listen to it. So

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Speaker 2: thirty minutes later we had soul finger. So that is

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Speaker 2: the definitive version of soul finger. That's it. Where did

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Speaker 2: the kids come from? A person that's been on your show?

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Speaker 2: It was his idea, David Porter. Really that was a

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Speaker 2: convenience store across the street from from Stacks. He went

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Speaker 2: over to the convenience store and got a case of

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Speaker 2: Coca colas, you know, the wooden case, twenty four balls

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Speaker 2: on the case. Oh god, don't tell me about to

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Speaker 2: pay off of Solda. We didn't even have a ball

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Speaker 2: open them. So what he told to do the guy

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Speaker 2: at the store just take the ball over it and

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Speaker 2: open it. So got the kids from the neighborhood, put

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Speaker 2: them around one mic and said I'm going to direct you.

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Speaker 2: So when I direct you, you say Soul Figure, right,

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Speaker 2: And that's how it came out. That's how it came about.

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Speaker 1: And you paid those kids in soda a soda ten

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Speaker 1: house Coca Cola. Okay, So I have a follow up

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Speaker 1: question for Soul Figure because I've had two other guests

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Speaker 1: on the show give their version of a song that

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Speaker 1: sort of sparked a controversial sit you and I'm speaking

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Speaker 1: of Ray Parker Jr.

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Speaker 2: And Huey Lewis. Now, this is all I'm saying. I

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Speaker 2: believe that the.

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Speaker 1: Story was when they were making Ghostbusters, they wanted Huey

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Speaker 1: Lewis's I Want a new drug in the movie somehow,

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Speaker 1: I guess whoever got the message to hue about this

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Speaker 1: movie whatever his Ghostbusters that sounds like dumb No. Rejected,

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Speaker 1: and then they came back again. You know, for real,

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Speaker 1: can you clear the song? He's like a ghost film

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Speaker 1: that sounds dumb.

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Speaker 2: No.

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Speaker 1: So they asked him, I think three or four times,

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Speaker 1: and he was like, adamantly, no, so then they gave

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Speaker 1: up went.

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Speaker 2: To Ray Parker Jr.

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Speaker 1: Now you know, and we're gonna get into this later.

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Speaker 1: I'm no stranger to derivative ideas. In other words, they

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Speaker 1: play a song, you listen to the song, then you

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Speaker 1: flip the song, and then it's a new song.

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Speaker 2: So I'm assuming that's what.

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Speaker 1: Ray Parker did, which was okay, well I'll make something

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Speaker 1: that's in the area close to it. And of course

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Speaker 1: Uey Lewis sued Ray Parker Jr. I think successfully, and

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Speaker 1: they never I think part of the clause was that

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Speaker 1: they were not allowed to talk about the case. But

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Speaker 1: obviously hue Lewis felt some sort of way that you know,

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Speaker 1: this song is my song. But when my dad and

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Speaker 1: I first heard Ghostbusters, my dad goes to the record

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Speaker 1: fleet says, that's nothing but an updated version of this,

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Speaker 1: and he plays me, Oh, she.

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Speaker 2: Should have told me that. You wait, my dear friend,

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Speaker 2: I didn't. I would do that.

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Speaker 1: So I'm just saying that when you heard Ghostbusters at

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Speaker 1: any time, did you say, hey, wait a minute, No, okay, sorry,

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Speaker 1: I wasn't trying to put you in That's all I

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Speaker 1: wanted to I would you know, I would do that.

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Speaker 2: The write no way, all right.

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Speaker 1: I want to know how music entered your life. What

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Speaker 1: was your first musical memory.

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Speaker 2: Well, in Memphis, there's a place called Handy Park downtown

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Speaker 2: on Bill Street. Unbeknowns to me, my mom took me

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Speaker 2: down on Bill Street to Handy Park. I had to

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Speaker 2: be I don't know, six or seven years old, I

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Speaker 2: can't remember exactly, but she took me downtown to Handy

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Speaker 2: Park to see bb King and Bobby Blue Bland and

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Speaker 2: they had taken two flatbed trucks, backed them together and

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Speaker 2: made a stage out of it. That was my first

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Speaker 2: recollection of the music. Well, what happened that particular day,

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Speaker 2: unbeknowns to me, it kind of got into my DNA.

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Speaker 2: I didn't know it at the time, but you know,

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Speaker 2: I took a liking too, the whole scene, the whole thing,

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Speaker 2: the whole music thing. It didn't hurt that my brother

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Speaker 2: was a big jazz buff, not a musician or anything

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Speaker 2: like that, but just collecting definitely, you know, Cold Trane,

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Speaker 2: Miles Davis, they lonely just monk all of that stuff.

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Speaker 2: Paul Chambers, which, yeah, all of that stuff.

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Speaker 1: So you're growing up in a city that also has

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Speaker 1: given us Aretha Franklin, Marie White, Carl Perkins, Jerry Lee Lewis,

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Speaker 1: Johnny Cash, Elvis.

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Speaker 2: Presley, Al Green.

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Speaker 1: Even in the musical ecosystem, are you running into an

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Speaker 1: unknown David Porter and unknown Isaac Hayes, like talk about

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Speaker 1: just the ecosystem of Memphis, Like how small is the

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Speaker 1: city in terms of it's musical community, And who were

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Speaker 1: you sort of socially interacting with before you became an artist, Like,

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Speaker 1: oh yeah, I knew that when we were twelve years

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Speaker 1: old in the same school.

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Speaker 2: Well, I was in the marching band. I was in

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Speaker 2: the you start in junior high school, I was in

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Speaker 2: the marching band. You're not gonna believe this. I always

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Speaker 2: wanted to play drums. But what happened is I went

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Speaker 2: to the band room and the band director said, you know,

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Speaker 2: I want you to stand up state your navy James Alexander.

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Speaker 2: What do you want to play? I want to play drums.

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Speaker 2: I have my drum sticks and everything right. He said, well,

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Speaker 2: I'm sorry, we don't need any more drummers, but we

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Speaker 2: have over there for tuba players. And I said, oh shit,

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Speaker 2: tuba players because back then they didn't have the fiberglass tubers.

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Speaker 2: All the tubes were metal. Okay, okay, but I wanted

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Speaker 2: to be in the band so bad, so I said, shit,

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Speaker 2: I mean, you know, this looks like this is my

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Speaker 2: only shot. So started out with the tuba. So with

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Speaker 2: the tuba, you know, he suggested that I take the

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Speaker 2: tuber home, you know, so I could learn how to

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Speaker 2: play it. So, but the bell was so big. You know,

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Speaker 2: the bus that I used to ride home, the bell

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Speaker 2: couldn't fit inside the bus. So I had to walk

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Speaker 2: home with the tuba heavy ones. It took me about

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Speaker 2: maybe thirty minutes to walk home. But all walking home,

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Speaker 2: you know this big tuba. You know, kids and stuff

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Speaker 2: throwing paper all up in the barrel of the Tubuh

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Speaker 2: you got that big ass yeah tuba and all of that.

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Speaker 1: You didn't have a case. There were no tu ks, No,

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Speaker 1: it was no tube case. You just had to carry it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Like I'm at a parade and I'm just walking

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Speaker 2: by myself, so you know, with some friends they throwing paper. Anyway,

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Speaker 2: That's how I had to get the tuber home. And

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Speaker 2: then when I get it home, you know, my brother,

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Speaker 2: which was like seventeen years older than me, I'm trying

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Speaker 2: to learn how to play the tube to him. It

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Speaker 2: sounded horrible. Cut that cut that rag, it out, cut

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Speaker 2: all that noise out. But you know, I just I

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Speaker 2: kept at it when I was playing football too, I mean,

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Speaker 2: and I kept at the tuba, and I started getting,

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Speaker 2: you know, pretty good at it. And then they had

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Speaker 2: a thing in West Tennessee called if if you do

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Speaker 2: good in West Tennessee, you get invited to bail my

246
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Speaker 2: School of Music, which or people are the School of

247
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Speaker 2: Music which now is part of Vanderbilt, to study, you know,

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Speaker 2: with some other kids. So there were only two black

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Speaker 2: kids from West Tennessee to go to Nashville and study,

250
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Speaker 2: you know with all of the kids from all over Tennessee.

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Speaker 2: Me and another guy. He played two also, we were

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Speaker 2: the only black kids in the whole state for the

253
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Speaker 2: music summer camp. And by then I had master the

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Speaker 2: tuba and all of that, and some kind of way

255
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Speaker 2: I got interested in base. So I started out on upright. Okay,

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Speaker 2: one of my teachers that bought her son an upright

257
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Speaker 2: and she came to me one day and she said,

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Speaker 2: you know, how about this upright for my son. He's

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Speaker 2: not going to get into it. Do you want it?

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Speaker 2: I said, sure, So she just gave it to me. Now,

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Speaker 2: mind you that particular upright right now, it's worth about

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Speaker 2: eight grand. She probably paid maybe four or five hundred

263
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Speaker 2: dollars for it. But it's a blonde German made upright day,

264
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Speaker 2: you know with the lfo's, I mean beautiful. This This

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Speaker 2: is a backstory to that. Y'all don't know who you

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Speaker 2: want to be telling you. The backstory is I stayed

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Speaker 2: at home with my parents, and by this time, you know,

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Speaker 2: I was going in and out of town. It was

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Speaker 2: set up in the dining room on the you know

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Speaker 2: what's on the stand. So I come home one day,

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Speaker 2: where's my base? I mean asking my brother, right, I

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00:15:26,480 --> 00:15:30,080
Speaker 2: don't know? I said, Man, where's my base? I said,

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Speaker 2: you just sits in that corner right there, and he

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Speaker 2: kep saying I don't know. So I had to go

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Speaker 2: south of Memphis on him. Where's my email base? Okay,

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Speaker 2: where's my base? Oh? Man? Oh man? You know I

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Speaker 2: forgot to tell you? Man. Uh I took it to

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Speaker 2: the pawn shop, man, and uh, I said, man, what

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Speaker 2: let's call the pawn shop right now? Of course, cause

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Speaker 2: you know with pawn shop, if you don't pay on

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Speaker 2: your instrument, you know, in a certain time they'll sell it.

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Speaker 2: So we called they had sold my base, like seven

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Speaker 2: hundred dollars or some shit like that. Man, I was

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Speaker 2: ready to I was actually was ready to kill my

285
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Speaker 2: own brother. Why did he do that? Unbeitniced to me

286
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Speaker 2: he had a gambling problem. You know, I don't know

287
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Speaker 2: if you know anything about Memphs. You know across the

288
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Speaker 2: bridge or in West Wemster they have the dog track

289
00:16:22,440 --> 00:16:25,720
Speaker 2: back then the dog track, you know, so you know

290
00:16:25,800 --> 00:16:28,320
Speaker 2: they had this big book you play the dogs every night.

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Speaker 2: He was going to the dog track every day, you know,

292
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Speaker 2: trying to hit and you know, got into a jam

293
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Speaker 2: part of my base. So I was rather kill him,

294
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Speaker 2: but I was. I was hurt more than anything. So

295
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Speaker 2: just you know, I started crying and shit, and you

296
00:16:44,440 --> 00:16:47,840
Speaker 2: know I was hurt. You know, I said, wait, manute,

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Speaker 2: you know we got to do this. So before he

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Speaker 2: passed away, you know, we kind of like kissed the

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Speaker 2: maid up. I said, you know this is a lifelong beef,

300
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Speaker 2: this is yeah. That was yeah, oh man. Yeah, my

301
00:17:00,680 --> 00:17:04,760
Speaker 2: dad went to a pawnshop. My dad worked at a

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Speaker 2: place called Firestone. If you don't anythink about Memphis, if

303
00:17:08,080 --> 00:17:12,919
Speaker 2: you work at Firestone International Harvester, all those places. You know,

304
00:17:13,520 --> 00:17:16,760
Speaker 2: that's a good job. So, unbeknownst to me, my dad

305
00:17:16,800 --> 00:17:20,080
Speaker 2: went to this pawn shop and put a harmony base

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00:17:20,960 --> 00:17:26,879
Speaker 2: and amplify in the Layoway. So I didn't know that

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00:17:27,000 --> 00:17:31,320
Speaker 2: he was doing that, and he didn't tell me about

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Speaker 2: it until he went to get it out. So he said,

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Speaker 2: come on, want you to rat somewhere with me, And

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Speaker 2: he took me down there and he got it out.

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Speaker 2: I think the whole base and the app I think

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00:17:44,280 --> 00:17:47,200
Speaker 2: was about it wasn't even two hundred dollars. I still

313
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Speaker 2: got the base, but the amp called foul one night

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Speaker 2: got you got what Jimmy Hendracy.

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Speaker 1: Okay, So me starting elementary school in the seventies, I

316
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Speaker 1: grew up in a time period where if you were

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Speaker 1: a specialty student, then your parents sent you to like

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Speaker 1: music school whatever.

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Speaker 2: But you know, later I.

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Speaker 1: Found out that in the late sixties, especially with like

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Speaker 1: the Nixon administration, they started taking like music programs out

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Speaker 1: of school. But basically, to hear you say it is

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Speaker 1: it almost as common as lunch period. If you're in school,

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Speaker 1: whether you have natural music talent or not, you're gonna

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Speaker 1: learn an instrument and you will eventually catch it on

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Speaker 1: to it.

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Speaker 2: That was mostly the case, But it's all about the interest.

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Speaker 2: What happened is back in those days, believe it or not,

329
00:19:01,040 --> 00:19:03,760
Speaker 2: we had, for lack of a better word, we had mentors.

330
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Speaker 2: So if, like our band director, if he saw you

331
00:19:06,840 --> 00:19:10,040
Speaker 2: had a interest, a lot of times didn't have to

332
00:19:10,040 --> 00:19:12,800
Speaker 2: show that much interest, but if he thought you, you know,

333
00:19:12,920 --> 00:19:15,159
Speaker 2: wanted to do something, they would kind of help you

334
00:19:15,240 --> 00:19:18,679
Speaker 2: facilitate get you on track to doing it. And so

335
00:19:19,400 --> 00:19:23,880
Speaker 2: fortunately my band director, my first band director, he kind

336
00:19:23,880 --> 00:19:26,960
Speaker 2: of like took an interest in it, and you know,

337
00:19:28,320 --> 00:19:30,720
Speaker 2: we'd have a regular band practice, you know where you

338
00:19:30,840 --> 00:19:33,919
Speaker 2: learned your scales and all of that stuff like that,

339
00:19:34,000 --> 00:19:37,760
Speaker 2: and then we would have after the band practice practice,

340
00:19:38,040 --> 00:19:40,480
Speaker 2: you know where you just learned some other stuff. So

341
00:19:41,320 --> 00:19:44,120
Speaker 2: that was just the whole big thing. And I'm grateful

342
00:19:44,160 --> 00:19:49,120
Speaker 2: to grow up around a lot of talented folks. You

343
00:19:49,800 --> 00:19:52,359
Speaker 2: was Bill Street for a tourist or was that? Was

344
00:19:52,400 --> 00:19:54,639
Speaker 2: it for real? Well? When I came up, Bill Street

345
00:19:54,680 --> 00:19:59,800
Speaker 2: was more like you know, prostitution, you know, drugs and music.

346
00:20:00,880 --> 00:20:03,160
Speaker 2: There was a club in the Bill Street area called

347
00:20:03,200 --> 00:20:08,320
Speaker 2: Club Handy. It was run by Sunbeam Mitchell. Sunbeam Mitchell

348
00:20:08,359 --> 00:20:11,200
Speaker 2: had a club and then he had in his club,

349
00:20:11,240 --> 00:20:14,280
Speaker 2: he had like five or six rooms. So when musicians

350
00:20:14,280 --> 00:20:17,160
Speaker 2: come through, there was not I mean, you know, people

351
00:20:17,240 --> 00:20:23,520
Speaker 2: have to understand the Memphis. Memphis were very segregated back

352
00:20:23,520 --> 00:20:25,360
Speaker 2: in those days. I mean, you know, you couldn't even

353
00:20:25,440 --> 00:20:29,880
Speaker 2: stay in certain hotels. You couldn't drink at certain water fountains.

354
00:20:29,920 --> 00:20:34,160
Speaker 2: I mean you got white water fountains, the colored water fountains.

355
00:20:34,400 --> 00:20:38,040
Speaker 2: But Sunbeam provided when musicians come through, you know, some

356
00:20:38,080 --> 00:20:41,080
Speaker 2: of the some of the greats, he would provide them

357
00:20:41,440 --> 00:20:46,320
Speaker 2: a room and uh, you know, in a bowl of chili. Okay. Yeah,

358
00:20:47,000 --> 00:20:50,000
Speaker 2: So with people coming through and all that stuff like that,

359
00:20:50,119 --> 00:20:53,679
Speaker 2: you know, and you aspiring to be in the music business,

360
00:20:53,760 --> 00:20:56,160
Speaker 2: or you go and try to meet some of these people,

361
00:20:56,200 --> 00:20:56,720
Speaker 2: you know what I mean.

362
00:20:57,680 --> 00:21:02,359
Speaker 1: I want to know where you enter the Barcads. So

363
00:21:02,440 --> 00:21:04,320
Speaker 1: they started in sixty two, did they not?

364
00:21:04,560 --> 00:21:10,240
Speaker 2: The Barcas started around sixty sixty, Yeah, around that time,

365
00:21:10,359 --> 00:21:12,560
Speaker 2: sixty two sixty three, somewhere in there. Okay.

366
00:21:13,000 --> 00:21:17,320
Speaker 1: Now, I was always under the impression because I would

367
00:21:17,320 --> 00:21:22,120
Speaker 1: also see credits on Stax records for the Marquis. So

368
00:21:22,200 --> 00:21:24,480
Speaker 1: for some reason I always thought that you guys started

369
00:21:24,520 --> 00:21:27,639
Speaker 1: off that first, and men sort of morphed into the

370
00:21:27,680 --> 00:21:30,680
Speaker 1: bar case. But were the Marquees a whole the whole

371
00:21:30,720 --> 00:21:33,159
Speaker 1: other group. Okay, so it had nothing to do They

372
00:21:33,160 --> 00:21:35,560
Speaker 1: had nothing to do with the Barcas, Okay, got it.

373
00:21:35,760 --> 00:21:39,800
Speaker 2: The Barcas was a group that some guys from several

374
00:21:39,880 --> 00:21:45,199
Speaker 2: different high schools that started emerging. Actually, the drummer that

375
00:21:45,240 --> 00:21:47,960
Speaker 2: played in the band with me it started the group.

376
00:21:48,000 --> 00:21:51,080
Speaker 2: It wasn't called the Barcades at that point. They used

377
00:21:51,119 --> 00:21:55,639
Speaker 2: to rehearse every Saturday. What happened was the bass player

378
00:21:56,000 --> 00:21:59,400
Speaker 2: for them at that particular point, he could play bass,

379
00:21:59,800 --> 00:22:03,879
Speaker 2: but he didn't own a bass. Oh so James Alexander

380
00:22:03,920 --> 00:22:07,520
Speaker 2: owned the base cause my dad had bought me a base. Remember,

381
00:22:08,440 --> 00:22:11,280
Speaker 2: so I used to ride my bike to their rehearsal

382
00:22:11,359 --> 00:22:14,760
Speaker 2: every Saturday so he could use my bass so that

383
00:22:14,920 --> 00:22:18,080
Speaker 2: they could rehearse. This one particular said that I rode

384
00:22:18,080 --> 00:22:25,080
Speaker 2: to their rehearsal okay, and he wasn't there. So they said, hey, man,

385
00:22:25,200 --> 00:22:27,920
Speaker 2: were ready to start this rehearsal. Basically us not here.

386
00:22:28,640 --> 00:22:32,520
Speaker 2: So who's gonna play bass? They said, you? I said,

387
00:22:32,520 --> 00:22:35,800
Speaker 2: but there's one problem. They said, what's the problem? I

388
00:22:35,840 --> 00:22:39,399
Speaker 2: can't play and so the guitar player said, well, you

389
00:22:39,440 --> 00:22:42,480
Speaker 2: know what, I'll show you enough to, you know, to

390
00:22:42,480 --> 00:22:44,879
Speaker 2: get through rehearsals. You know what I mean to be

391
00:22:44,920 --> 00:22:47,880
Speaker 2: quite unrest I was fucking up bad, but he said,

392
00:22:48,160 --> 00:22:49,119
Speaker 2: we're gonna get you through this.

393
00:22:49,520 --> 00:22:54,640
Speaker 1: Stylistically, how jarringly different was adjusting to electric bass as

394
00:22:54,640 --> 00:22:56,000
Speaker 1: opposed to the upright base.

395
00:22:56,600 --> 00:23:00,480
Speaker 2: A lot of adjustment for me because my instruction always

396
00:23:00,480 --> 00:23:02,679
Speaker 2: would tell me, you know, he had this thing you

397
00:23:02,840 --> 00:23:06,080
Speaker 2: hit hit me on my knuckles because I didn't. I wasn't.

398
00:23:06,119 --> 00:23:10,240
Speaker 2: I wasn't doing my technique correctly. The fingering, the finger

399
00:23:10,280 --> 00:23:12,159
Speaker 2: I wasn't doing none of that right. But you know,

400
00:23:12,200 --> 00:23:14,640
Speaker 2: I just had to do it however I could do it.

401
00:23:14,640 --> 00:23:15,600
Speaker 2: It was a big difference.

402
00:23:16,280 --> 00:23:18,680
Speaker 1: Now that you are getting an interest in the base,

403
00:23:19,400 --> 00:23:22,679
Speaker 1: who are you listening to? Who you trying to pattern

404
00:23:22,720 --> 00:23:23,520
Speaker 1: yourself after?

405
00:23:24,600 --> 00:23:28,399
Speaker 2: I was basically listening to the radio, and at an

406
00:23:28,480 --> 00:23:32,760
Speaker 2: early age up nonst with my parents, I started slipping

407
00:23:32,800 --> 00:23:36,800
Speaker 2: in clubs, slipping in clubs, and there was a guy

408
00:23:36,920 --> 00:23:41,399
Speaker 2: by the name of a Cleave Shields, better known as Frog.

409
00:23:42,119 --> 00:23:46,639
Speaker 2: He played with a band called Jean Bowlex Miller. I

410
00:23:46,720 --> 00:23:49,840
Speaker 2: was listening to him. I was listening to another guy

411
00:23:49,880 --> 00:23:53,760
Speaker 2: by the name of Robert McGee who played upright, and

412
00:23:53,760 --> 00:23:56,359
Speaker 2: I ended up taking some bass lessons from him. Those

413
00:23:56,359 --> 00:23:59,240
Speaker 2: are the two guys I was listening to and when

414
00:23:59,280 --> 00:24:01,720
Speaker 2: I started to learn how to play a little bit.

415
00:24:01,920 --> 00:24:06,359
Speaker 2: Robert McGee. They had a thing in Memphis called Blue Monday. Okay,

416
00:24:07,000 --> 00:24:10,680
Speaker 2: and Robert McGee is I mean it was a great

417
00:24:10,760 --> 00:24:13,840
Speaker 2: bass player. But he would go to sleep on stage

418
00:24:14,440 --> 00:24:17,679
Speaker 2: while playing. I mean he's still playing. He goes to

419
00:24:17,680 --> 00:24:23,639
Speaker 2: sleep so heavy moonshine or something. So, so what happened

420
00:24:23,800 --> 00:24:26,680
Speaker 2: is he said, I got I got an ideal. Man.

421
00:24:27,280 --> 00:24:29,600
Speaker 2: You know, it was a four hour gig, right, So

422
00:24:29,960 --> 00:24:32,200
Speaker 2: he would play the first part of it, and then

423
00:24:32,280 --> 00:24:34,320
Speaker 2: he said, man, once you come and then you know,

424
00:24:34,760 --> 00:24:37,760
Speaker 2: I'm gonna work you in. And you played the second part.

425
00:24:38,040 --> 00:24:43,679
Speaker 2: So the band was Ben Branch, Ben Branch, Yes, Ben Branch,

426
00:24:43,960 --> 00:24:47,439
Speaker 2: the Ben Branch off versing push, yes, Jack, all of that.

427
00:24:47,560 --> 00:24:50,639
Speaker 2: The last person that spoke to you before. He So

428
00:24:50,880 --> 00:24:53,920
Speaker 2: they had a Monday night thing every Monday night, and

429
00:24:53,600 --> 00:24:56,720
Speaker 2: he was playing the base and then he played the

430
00:24:56,760 --> 00:24:58,760
Speaker 2: first half that I come in and play the second half.

431
00:24:58,920 --> 00:25:02,959
Speaker 2: The band was fine with like no, no, no, no,

432
00:25:03,160 --> 00:25:05,520
Speaker 2: not really, but he said, he said, hey, I'm leaving.

433
00:25:05,560 --> 00:25:06,120
Speaker 2: I got to go to.

434
00:25:06,080 --> 00:25:09,479
Speaker 1: Sleep, because he go to sleep on stage messing up.

435
00:25:09,640 --> 00:25:12,160
Speaker 1: Was it because he was working all day or.

436
00:25:12,240 --> 00:25:14,160
Speaker 2: Yes, because he was a band director in the daytime

437
00:25:14,680 --> 00:25:16,760
Speaker 2: and then you know, playing gigs at night and stuff

438
00:25:17,359 --> 00:25:19,439
Speaker 2: in a school teacher too, so on top of all

439
00:25:19,440 --> 00:25:22,399
Speaker 2: of them, so he was tired. So what happened is

440
00:25:23,640 --> 00:25:27,480
Speaker 2: one of my first experiences being Brunch called out a song.

441
00:25:27,560 --> 00:25:33,240
Speaker 2: He said, start us five flats one two, five flats five,

442
00:25:34,160 --> 00:25:36,880
Speaker 2: five flats. I know it's D flat, but I said

443
00:25:36,920 --> 00:25:40,160
Speaker 2: what man, You know, I didn't know what the hell

444
00:25:40,200 --> 00:25:42,840
Speaker 2: to do, you know what I'm saying. But one thing

445
00:25:42,920 --> 00:25:49,560
Speaker 2: that I learned early on in my teachings, especially the

446
00:25:49,600 --> 00:25:52,399
Speaker 2: bass player. He said, man, look, if you don't know

447
00:25:52,480 --> 00:25:57,400
Speaker 2: a song, stand close to the keyboard player and watch

448
00:25:57,480 --> 00:26:02,240
Speaker 2: his left hand, and you were probably you know, you

449
00:26:02,280 --> 00:26:04,239
Speaker 2: would learn the changes and all that stuff like that.

450
00:26:04,320 --> 00:26:07,000
Speaker 2: And I did it. So I fumbled through it, but

451
00:26:07,080 --> 00:26:10,320
Speaker 2: I got through it. And then he right after that,

452
00:26:10,440 --> 00:26:12,520
Speaker 2: he called sat the doll. I said, oh my god,

453
00:26:13,840 --> 00:26:16,000
Speaker 2: I mean, you know, all right, you got the one song.

454
00:26:16,119 --> 00:26:18,560
Speaker 2: Now I got to do this. I mean, you know,

455
00:26:18,760 --> 00:26:20,600
Speaker 2: I thought there's a go play some twelve bar blues

456
00:26:20,640 --> 00:26:22,400
Speaker 2: and stuff like that. I could get through that, right,

457
00:26:22,440 --> 00:26:24,680
Speaker 2: but they playing standards, you know what I mean.

458
00:26:24,520 --> 00:26:26,720
Speaker 1: So you jump right into the lake of jazz, not

459
00:26:26,760 --> 00:26:28,760
Speaker 1: blue all of that. Yeah, all of that.

460
00:26:28,920 --> 00:26:32,720
Speaker 2: So I mean, you know, and I'm happy to say

461
00:26:32,760 --> 00:26:35,080
Speaker 2: that gradually I started getting a little better at it. Well,

462
00:26:35,119 --> 00:26:40,719
Speaker 2: I was gonna say, you stood in a Bark's rehearsal

463
00:26:41,240 --> 00:26:44,600
Speaker 2: because the other bass player wasn't there, but right, you

464
00:26:44,640 --> 00:26:49,200
Speaker 2: are still a Bark. So what happened to that other

465
00:26:49,240 --> 00:26:53,760
Speaker 2: bass player? Like he just he just know. What happened

466
00:26:53,840 --> 00:26:57,040
Speaker 2: is the last time I went to the rehearsal and

467
00:26:57,160 --> 00:27:00,480
Speaker 2: brought my bass because because I'm used to bringing my

468
00:27:00,520 --> 00:27:03,280
Speaker 2: bass to the rehearsal, opened the case up, tuning it

469
00:27:03,359 --> 00:27:05,240
Speaker 2: up and giving it to him so they could start

470
00:27:05,280 --> 00:27:08,320
Speaker 2: the rehearsal so you could tune it. So you were

471
00:27:08,359 --> 00:27:08,720
Speaker 2: a tech.

472
00:27:08,920 --> 00:27:11,160
Speaker 1: You were a bass tech technical what we would call

473
00:27:11,160 --> 00:27:14,879
Speaker 1: it bass tech now, Like yeah, I mean, but I mean,

474
00:27:14,960 --> 00:27:16,280
Speaker 1: let's be, let's be I went.

475
00:27:16,320 --> 00:27:18,879
Speaker 2: Tuning it up that good because it was it was

476
00:27:18,920 --> 00:27:21,520
Speaker 2: still not all the way into him. But anyway, so

477
00:27:22,520 --> 00:27:25,040
Speaker 2: what happened is I'm gonna give the bass player of

478
00:27:25,119 --> 00:27:29,600
Speaker 2: my bass right, and they the guys, man, what are

479
00:27:29,600 --> 00:27:32,960
Speaker 2: you doing? I said, I'm giving so y'all can start rehearsal.

480
00:27:34,040 --> 00:27:37,439
Speaker 2: They said, well, guess what. I said, what he's not

481
00:27:37,520 --> 00:27:40,439
Speaker 2: the bass player anymore? Well, who is the bass player?

482
00:27:40,520 --> 00:27:44,439
Speaker 2: They said, you? I said, but there's one thing that

483
00:27:44,560 --> 00:27:47,720
Speaker 2: y'all should know, and they said what is that? I

484
00:27:49,320 --> 00:27:52,040
Speaker 2: got it. And so the guitar player, I mean the

485
00:27:52,080 --> 00:27:55,280
Speaker 2: guitar player. Would you know, on some songs he played guitar.

486
00:27:55,440 --> 00:27:57,680
Speaker 2: Other songs he would play bass. So he really wanted

487
00:27:57,720 --> 00:27:59,960
Speaker 2: to play guitar, so he taught me a lot of

488
00:28:00,160 --> 00:28:02,600
Speaker 2: stuff on base. So how many months did it take

489
00:28:02,600 --> 00:28:06,520
Speaker 2: you to adjust? And really I would say fair about

490
00:28:06,560 --> 00:28:09,840
Speaker 2: six months? Okay, okay, about six months. I mean, you know,

491
00:28:09,880 --> 00:28:13,880
Speaker 2: I wasn't great, but I was good enough to get

492
00:28:13,880 --> 00:28:15,399
Speaker 2: through a three or four hour set, you know what.

493
00:28:15,920 --> 00:28:21,560
Speaker 1: So one of the pioneering things about the original iteration

494
00:28:21,720 --> 00:28:26,600
Speaker 1: of the Barcas, which also like another Memphis group, the MG's,

495
00:28:27,680 --> 00:28:31,919
Speaker 1: is that this is an interracial band. I didn't know

496
00:28:31,960 --> 00:28:36,200
Speaker 1: that the original keyboard player for the Barks was a

497
00:28:36,240 --> 00:28:44,600
Speaker 1: white guy. So just that alone, how radical was that

498
00:28:44,880 --> 00:28:47,360
Speaker 1: idea during that time period?

499
00:28:47,680 --> 00:28:50,640
Speaker 2: Well, the first thing we tried to do is everybody

500
00:28:50,720 --> 00:28:53,200
Speaker 2: was at different high schools, so we tried to get

501
00:28:53,200 --> 00:28:57,120
Speaker 2: everybody to the same high school. So you got five

502
00:28:57,200 --> 00:28:59,440
Speaker 2: black guys and this one white guy. He went to

503
00:28:59,480 --> 00:29:03,840
Speaker 2: a dominantly white school. So what about he goes to

504
00:29:03,840 --> 00:29:07,360
Speaker 2: his parents and say, look, I want to change and

505
00:29:07,520 --> 00:29:11,480
Speaker 2: go to Booker T. Washington High School because my guys

506
00:29:11,520 --> 00:29:16,479
Speaker 2: are there. His parents hit the freaking ceiling. Okay, okay,

507
00:29:17,000 --> 00:29:19,200
Speaker 2: but I have to say he was a radical white boy.

508
00:29:19,280 --> 00:29:22,200
Speaker 2: He said, I'm going anyway, you know, you know, you know,

509
00:29:22,840 --> 00:29:25,160
Speaker 2: probably be in reform school or something, you know, but

510
00:29:25,240 --> 00:29:28,040
Speaker 2: he said, and so they wasn't with it. But he

511
00:29:28,400 --> 00:29:33,080
Speaker 2: changed from a predominantly white school to a predominantly black school.

512
00:29:33,160 --> 00:29:37,000
Speaker 2: He was the only white kid in a predominantly black school,

513
00:29:38,080 --> 00:29:42,000
Speaker 2: and the black people accepted him. I mean, he didn't

514
00:29:42,040 --> 00:29:44,400
Speaker 2: have no issues. They didn't try to jump him, you know,

515
00:29:44,440 --> 00:29:46,880
Speaker 2: after school or nothing like that. He had a black

516
00:29:46,920 --> 00:29:50,520
Speaker 2: girlfriend the whole nine. He walking in, you know, walking

517
00:29:50,560 --> 00:29:54,000
Speaker 2: into the projects. Hey Ronnie, what's going on, man? How

518
00:29:54,040 --> 00:29:57,760
Speaker 2: you doing? You know? No problem in Memphis? In Memphis, Tennessee.

519
00:29:58,240 --> 00:30:00,920
Speaker 2: In clubs, are you guys playing in?

520
00:30:01,080 --> 00:30:07,719
Speaker 1: Are these segregated clubs are these like, what's the.

521
00:30:06,040 --> 00:30:09,960
Speaker 2: The layout of what your gigs are like? We played

522
00:30:09,960 --> 00:30:14,000
Speaker 2: predominantly black clubs, and then we also played predominantly white clubs.

523
00:30:14,040 --> 00:30:18,760
Speaker 2: Now the white clubs. I remember a club that we played.

524
00:30:18,880 --> 00:30:21,000
Speaker 2: Papa Willie was the house band. Willie Mitchell was the

525
00:30:21,000 --> 00:30:26,520
Speaker 2: house band. And this club had a guardrail around the stage,

526
00:30:26,640 --> 00:30:30,680
Speaker 2: so there was no way you could go out in

527
00:30:30,720 --> 00:30:34,000
Speaker 2: the in the audience behind the drummer. There was a

528
00:30:34,120 --> 00:30:36,840
Speaker 2: door that led to the parking lot.

529
00:30:37,280 --> 00:30:39,720
Speaker 1: So on break in order to get on stage, you

530
00:30:39,800 --> 00:30:44,160
Speaker 1: were just you're basically in a cell or a prison.

531
00:30:44,600 --> 00:30:47,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, you come out on stage, so I mean, you know,

532
00:30:48,040 --> 00:30:49,880
Speaker 2: people come up and wanted to talk to you, so

533
00:30:49,920 --> 00:30:52,120
Speaker 2: they had to talk to you over the guardrail, you know,

534
00:30:52,240 --> 00:30:54,920
Speaker 2: just a rode An fence around the stage.

535
00:30:54,800 --> 00:30:57,840
Speaker 1: And that was purposely designed so that if black acts

536
00:30:57,880 --> 00:30:59,400
Speaker 1: were hired, they weren't allowed.

537
00:31:00,080 --> 00:31:02,320
Speaker 2: What you're recognizing with the patriots, you know, the people

538
00:31:02,320 --> 00:31:03,880
Speaker 2: in the club man.

539
00:31:04,240 --> 00:31:07,600
Speaker 1: The odd thing is that I kind of wish I

540
00:31:07,640 --> 00:31:12,800
Speaker 1: have that system now, not for racial reasons, just yeah,

541
00:31:12,920 --> 00:31:16,000
Speaker 1: I just I want to get up going stage, yeah

542
00:31:16,080 --> 00:31:21,120
Speaker 1: and get out without any you know selfieh yeah, all right, No,

543
00:31:21,240 --> 00:31:22,120
Speaker 1: I love my fan base.

544
00:31:22,240 --> 00:31:24,440
Speaker 2: But but hey, but I tell you, I'll tell you what.

545
00:31:25,040 --> 00:31:28,320
Speaker 2: I'll tell you what happened one night at that particular club.

546
00:31:29,480 --> 00:31:32,400
Speaker 2: Espresially had a private party at this club called the

547
00:31:32,440 --> 00:31:36,480
Speaker 2: Manhattan Club. Right. I know, I'm skipping around, but by

548
00:31:36,480 --> 00:31:40,080
Speaker 2: this time I was playing with a band called Isaac

549
00:31:40,200 --> 00:31:44,520
Speaker 2: Hayes and the Do Dads, and I was a do Dad. Okay.

550
00:31:45,640 --> 00:31:49,600
Speaker 2: We played this club for one year called the Plantation

551
00:31:49,880 --> 00:31:55,200
Speaker 2: in in West Memphis. Unfortunate name. Yeah. We played from

552
00:31:55,280 --> 00:31:59,280
Speaker 2: nine to three, okay, six nights a week while I

553
00:31:59,320 --> 00:32:01,440
Speaker 2: was in high school. Okay for six hours.

554
00:32:01,640 --> 00:32:04,520
Speaker 1: So when you're doing a residency like that, you're not

555
00:32:04,560 --> 00:32:06,800
Speaker 1: playing six hours in a row, correct, Like what's the

556
00:32:07,040 --> 00:32:11,280
Speaker 1: what's fifteen forty five minutes?

557
00:32:11,640 --> 00:32:11,880
Speaker 2: Yeah?

558
00:32:12,000 --> 00:32:15,240
Speaker 1: Doing that fifteen minute break? Is music in the air?

559
00:32:15,320 --> 00:32:17,200
Speaker 1: Like do they have a juke box or something?

560
00:32:17,440 --> 00:32:21,240
Speaker 2: A juke box? Okay? So yeah, Music's a constant, yeah,

561
00:32:21,560 --> 00:32:22,280
Speaker 2: constantly going.

562
00:32:22,640 --> 00:32:25,880
Speaker 1: Is it the same set six times at night or

563
00:32:25,960 --> 00:32:28,840
Speaker 1: you're learning different so doing different songs, I mean it goes.

564
00:32:29,240 --> 00:32:31,600
Speaker 2: You know, by this time, you know, you end up

565
00:32:31,640 --> 00:32:33,960
Speaker 2: learning a lot of songs. Okay, I mean you know

566
00:32:34,120 --> 00:32:37,680
Speaker 2: every now and then, uh, maybe in the hour one

567
00:32:37,800 --> 00:32:41,240
Speaker 2: and hours five you might repeat a song or two, okay,

568
00:32:41,480 --> 00:32:43,400
Speaker 2: but we had different songs. I mean, you know, I

569
00:32:43,520 --> 00:32:45,680
Speaker 2: learned a lot of songs like the New Units of

570
00:32:45,800 --> 00:32:49,200
Speaker 2: You and My Funny Valid I mean, you know, just

571
00:32:49,280 --> 00:32:52,320
Speaker 2: all those songs then plus whatever songs were out then.

572
00:32:52,480 --> 00:32:57,000
Speaker 1: You know, was this primarily well you said my Funny Valentine.

573
00:32:57,040 --> 00:32:59,360
Speaker 1: So I'm like, those are ballots? Yeah, like during this

574
00:32:59,400 --> 00:33:01,760
Speaker 1: period kids want to dance, do they not?

575
00:33:02,080 --> 00:33:03,960
Speaker 2: Or yeah? Well these weren't kids, he was were grown

576
00:33:04,040 --> 00:33:07,240
Speaker 2: people in the club there you go, Yeah, okay here grown.

577
00:33:07,320 --> 00:33:10,120
Speaker 2: I mean you have to be twenty one to get

578
00:33:10,200 --> 00:33:12,320
Speaker 2: in the club, got it. But we were under age,

579
00:33:12,400 --> 00:33:14,840
Speaker 2: you know, getting in the club. We was in the club.

580
00:33:14,920 --> 00:33:17,480
Speaker 2: I mean, I think Isaac may have at doing those times.

581
00:33:17,520 --> 00:33:20,840
Speaker 2: He might have been in his early twenties. Got you

582
00:33:20,920 --> 00:33:23,440
Speaker 2: all right? Sin finish? I interrupted your story. You went

583
00:33:23,480 --> 00:33:26,360
Speaker 2: to an Elvis press league. Yeah, we went to Elvis. No,

584
00:33:26,520 --> 00:33:29,600
Speaker 2: Elvis presst hired us to play a party. You know.

585
00:33:29,640 --> 00:33:32,400
Speaker 2: Elvis was always big on like, for instance, if he

586
00:33:32,480 --> 00:33:35,240
Speaker 2: go to amusement park or something like that, he would

587
00:33:35,320 --> 00:33:38,960
Speaker 2: shut the whole amusement park down and just only somebody

588
00:33:39,000 --> 00:33:41,520
Speaker 2: would be there with him and his cronies. Same thing

589
00:33:41,520 --> 00:33:43,520
Speaker 2: with the club. If he if he did something at

590
00:33:43,520 --> 00:33:46,520
Speaker 2: the club, shut the club down, Nobody deal with him

591
00:33:46,520 --> 00:33:47,200
Speaker 2: and his cronies.

592
00:33:47,440 --> 00:33:50,480
Speaker 1: Now when I watch footage of Elvis elsewhere, you know,

593
00:33:50,560 --> 00:33:53,880
Speaker 1: girlsy chasing them, and it's like, yeah, chaos. Right, is

594
00:33:53,920 --> 00:33:57,320
Speaker 1: he able to move in and out of Memphis like

595
00:33:57,360 --> 00:33:58,880
Speaker 1: it's nothing because everyone knows him?

596
00:33:59,120 --> 00:34:03,400
Speaker 2: Or no? I mean he's still he's still Evers person.

597
00:34:03,440 --> 00:34:06,000
Speaker 2: He still got security all twenty four seven with him,

598
00:34:06,040 --> 00:34:10,320
Speaker 2: got But we played this club. This is Isaac Cages

599
00:34:10,360 --> 00:34:13,520
Speaker 2: and to do dads. I think Isaac charged them I

600
00:34:13,600 --> 00:34:17,920
Speaker 2: want to say five hundred dollars and I think Isaac

601
00:34:17,960 --> 00:34:20,120
Speaker 2: paid us like about forty dollars a piece or something

602
00:34:20,160 --> 00:34:24,400
Speaker 2: like that. But after the thing, that man, you you

603
00:34:24,480 --> 00:34:28,080
Speaker 2: still got this roll down fence. Right, So we walked

604
00:34:28,120 --> 00:34:31,440
Speaker 2: out of the on the parking lot and come into

605
00:34:31,480 --> 00:34:33,640
Speaker 2: the front interest of the club because he wanted to

606
00:34:33,680 --> 00:34:36,719
Speaker 2: be up close and personal with us. And you know,

607
00:34:36,880 --> 00:34:41,759
Speaker 2: Evers was tall, right, you know, very handsome guy. I

608
00:34:41,760 --> 00:34:46,160
Speaker 2: mean very polite. I mean, yes, ma'am, no, ma'am. Type

609
00:34:46,160 --> 00:34:48,840
Speaker 2: of guy I've got you, very contrary to what people

610
00:34:49,080 --> 00:34:53,280
Speaker 2: say about him, anyway, he said, man, I really enjoyed myself.

611
00:34:53,320 --> 00:34:55,840
Speaker 2: I had a good time. And then you know, he

612
00:34:55,840 --> 00:34:57,439
Speaker 2: went in his park. He put out a big water

613
00:34:57,560 --> 00:35:00,720
Speaker 2: money and it was like six of us. No, maagine,

614
00:35:00,719 --> 00:35:04,759
Speaker 2: I'll just made forty bucks for the gig. Right. He

615
00:35:04,800 --> 00:35:07,520
Speaker 2: gave each one of us one hundred dollar bill and

616
00:35:07,640 --> 00:35:13,120
Speaker 2: I said, shit, it's got like one one than I

617
00:35:13,160 --> 00:35:17,400
Speaker 2: had right at the time. Well, I get it immediately

618
00:35:17,400 --> 00:35:18,799
Speaker 2: when I got home, I gave it one hundred to

619
00:35:18,840 --> 00:35:20,799
Speaker 2: my mom. Don't we always do that?

620
00:35:20,880 --> 00:35:35,359
Speaker 1: Yeah, all my money goes to my mom. During this

621
00:35:35,440 --> 00:35:40,399
Speaker 1: time period, is it possible for you to be a

622
00:35:40,560 --> 00:35:43,880
Speaker 1: local musician and make a living?

623
00:35:44,880 --> 00:35:45,799
Speaker 2: Is it possible?

624
00:35:46,160 --> 00:35:50,440
Speaker 1: Meaning okay, cats, I know, especially like if I talk

625
00:35:50,520 --> 00:35:53,360
Speaker 1: to someone from Detroit or you know, in the Iron

626
00:35:53,400 --> 00:35:57,200
Speaker 1: in the rust belt like or in Ohio, Indiana whatever.

627
00:35:58,200 --> 00:35:59,920
Speaker 1: Most of the stories is now we work in the

628
00:36:00,080 --> 00:36:05,120
Speaker 1: factories from eight am to four or five pm, and

629
00:36:05,120 --> 00:36:06,960
Speaker 1: then we go home, and then we go to the

630
00:36:07,000 --> 00:36:09,640
Speaker 1: bar that night, and then we'll play till one am

631
00:36:09,760 --> 00:36:11,920
Speaker 1: and do the same thing over and over again because

632
00:36:12,840 --> 00:36:15,839
Speaker 1: they need to make more money. Was it possible during

633
00:36:15,840 --> 00:36:20,799
Speaker 1: this time period to be a full time musician? What

634
00:36:20,960 --> 00:36:25,120
Speaker 1: is a good musician rate to survive and only be

635
00:36:25,160 --> 00:36:27,640
Speaker 1: a musician, not doing anything else but to do music.

636
00:36:27,760 --> 00:36:30,239
Speaker 2: Like what would you need to answer your question? It

637
00:36:30,400 --> 00:36:33,360
Speaker 2: really kind of like what like that you Mostly everybody

638
00:36:33,400 --> 00:36:37,960
Speaker 2: in the in the music community did something else besides music.

639
00:36:38,480 --> 00:36:42,440
Speaker 2: For me, I basically owned the did music because you know,

640
00:36:42,560 --> 00:36:44,880
Speaker 2: I was staying at home with my parents. Okay, so

641
00:36:45,160 --> 00:36:47,160
Speaker 2: you know, as my dad used always say, you know,

642
00:36:47,520 --> 00:36:50,400
Speaker 2: starting to get a little beside myself. You think you

643
00:36:50,480 --> 00:36:56,399
Speaker 2: a man now bills? Yeah, so you know I got

644
00:36:56,400 --> 00:36:59,600
Speaker 2: my first apartment. I was like seven. Thing. Okay, you

645
00:36:59,640 --> 00:37:01,760
Speaker 2: were the man in the house then. Yeah.

646
00:37:01,840 --> 00:37:06,840
Speaker 1: So like if I'm hiring you for a gig for

647
00:37:06,920 --> 00:37:09,240
Speaker 1: Saturday night, in which I guess you're expected to play

648
00:37:09,400 --> 00:37:13,520
Speaker 1: five to six hours, right, fair pay to you is

649
00:37:13,760 --> 00:37:17,440
Speaker 1: forty fifty bucks or is that just the entire band?

650
00:37:17,560 --> 00:37:21,680
Speaker 2: Like no, average was more like twenty five fifteen to

651
00:37:21,680 --> 00:37:22,280
Speaker 2: twenty five.

652
00:37:22,200 --> 00:37:24,319
Speaker 1: So for the whole band, they would just pay you

653
00:37:24,440 --> 00:37:26,719
Speaker 1: one hundred and fifty two hundred bucks for the night.

654
00:37:27,120 --> 00:37:29,239
Speaker 2: I mean, if you got a gig and you had

655
00:37:29,239 --> 00:37:31,920
Speaker 2: a band, like we had five or six piece bandy,

656
00:37:32,080 --> 00:37:34,120
Speaker 2: if we got three hundred dollars, that was a big deal,

657
00:37:34,920 --> 00:37:37,400
Speaker 2: got you? Okay? That was that was huge.

658
00:37:37,840 --> 00:37:40,239
Speaker 1: I guess what I'm trying to find out is, are

659
00:37:40,280 --> 00:37:45,080
Speaker 1: you by this point having any dreams of, hey, we

660
00:37:45,120 --> 00:37:46,799
Speaker 1: could take this higher, like maybe we can get a

661
00:37:46,800 --> 00:37:49,920
Speaker 1: record deal, maybe we can tour the world, maybe we can.

662
00:37:50,239 --> 00:37:52,400
Speaker 2: I wouldn't. We weren't even thinking about that. We were

663
00:37:52,440 --> 00:37:54,960
Speaker 2: just trying to see if we could get up to

664
00:37:55,040 --> 00:37:59,480
Speaker 2: like one hundred and fifty two hundred dollars a week,

665
00:38:00,320 --> 00:38:05,200
Speaker 2: we would be doing great. And back in those days

666
00:38:05,280 --> 00:38:09,200
Speaker 2: because of the club scene. In those days, if you

667
00:38:09,200 --> 00:38:12,879
Speaker 2: were pretty good, not for everybody, but that was kind

668
00:38:12,880 --> 00:38:15,680
Speaker 2: of like possible to get up to that because you

669
00:38:15,840 --> 00:38:19,040
Speaker 2: had them had a lot of clubs. I mean we

670
00:38:19,080 --> 00:38:23,040
Speaker 2: had the Flamingo Room, which was downtown. You had Club

671
00:38:23,080 --> 00:38:28,200
Speaker 2: Handy Gotcha. You had the Hippodrome, which you know that's

672
00:38:28,239 --> 00:38:31,839
Speaker 2: where you know we played there. You had another club

673
00:38:31,880 --> 00:38:33,879
Speaker 2: called the te Hee Club, you had the Man Had,

674
00:38:34,000 --> 00:38:36,160
Speaker 2: I mean, you know, there were clubs. It was like

675
00:38:36,239 --> 00:38:38,920
Speaker 2: a situation. Any club you go in, you're gonna hear

676
00:38:38,960 --> 00:38:40,640
Speaker 2: some you're gonna have some good ship, You're gonna hear

677
00:38:40,680 --> 00:38:41,680
Speaker 2: some good stuff, you know.

678
00:38:41,640 --> 00:38:44,759
Speaker 1: With their rival bands, Like who was your rival band

679
00:38:44,800 --> 00:38:45,400
Speaker 1: at that moment.

680
00:38:45,760 --> 00:38:51,200
Speaker 2: We didn't have a rival band at first, but we

681
00:38:51,200 --> 00:38:53,799
Speaker 2: were kind of like, for lack of a better world,

682
00:38:53,800 --> 00:38:58,360
Speaker 2: we were kind of like we ended up becoming the

683
00:38:58,520 --> 00:39:03,680
Speaker 2: second string band at Stacks. Now, man, you this was

684
00:39:03,880 --> 00:39:08,319
Speaker 2: after the plane crash, right, but we we didn't have

685
00:39:08,360 --> 00:39:13,000
Speaker 2: a rival band, and we were fortunate enough for Booker

686
00:39:13,000 --> 00:39:16,640
Speaker 2: T and the MG's, those guys man of Steve Cropper

687
00:39:16,840 --> 00:39:19,480
Speaker 2: by the way, to kind of like take us under

688
00:39:19,520 --> 00:39:21,839
Speaker 2: their wing, take us, take us under their wing.

689
00:39:22,080 --> 00:39:24,920
Speaker 1: Steve never opened up even after he became established, Like,

690
00:39:25,320 --> 00:39:27,600
Speaker 1: oh no, he won't even admit that.

691
00:39:28,080 --> 00:39:31,520
Speaker 2: No, Steve, Steve was I mean, you know, I mean,

692
00:39:31,560 --> 00:39:35,759
Speaker 2: I hope you don't come out of the gravy. But man,

693
00:39:36,080 --> 00:39:38,960
Speaker 2: you know, you know you couldn't get his respect. You know,

694
00:39:39,040 --> 00:39:41,839
Speaker 2: he couldn't get his respect. But I will tell you

695
00:39:41,880 --> 00:39:45,200
Speaker 2: this when Jim Steward, because you know, back in those

696
00:39:45,280 --> 00:39:48,680
Speaker 2: days when uh, every Monday they have a and R

697
00:39:48,800 --> 00:39:53,600
Speaker 2: meeting and Jim Steward, I mean, Steve Cropper would be there,

698
00:39:53,760 --> 00:39:57,440
Speaker 2: l Jackson, Booker T if he was not, if he

699
00:39:57,520 --> 00:40:00,680
Speaker 2: was in town, not in college, Isaac Ca, David Porter,

700
00:40:00,840 --> 00:40:04,160
Speaker 2: all those people were there and they would uh they

701
00:40:04,160 --> 00:40:08,160
Speaker 2: would give the schedule for that week and this particular

702
00:40:08,680 --> 00:40:13,279
Speaker 2: Monday after we recorded Soul Fingered the weekend, Jim said,

703
00:40:13,320 --> 00:40:14,800
Speaker 2: before we get into this meeting, I got somebody I

704
00:40:14,800 --> 00:40:18,480
Speaker 2: want to play for you. Steve Crupper was there. When

705
00:40:18,520 --> 00:40:23,720
Speaker 2: he played it, Steve Crupper's face turned red because they said, damn,

706
00:40:23,760 --> 00:40:26,480
Speaker 2: these were these little guys I was working with. Y'all

707
00:40:26,480 --> 00:40:27,040
Speaker 2: were a threat.

708
00:40:27,400 --> 00:40:31,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, then that means you're good if you're a threat

709
00:40:31,080 --> 00:40:31,439
Speaker 1: to him.

710
00:40:31,600 --> 00:40:33,600
Speaker 2: So yeah, okay, yeah.

711
00:40:33,719 --> 00:40:36,440
Speaker 1: As far as labels are concerned, you know, I know

712
00:40:36,480 --> 00:40:39,720
Speaker 1: of the legend of Sun Records, I know Stacks.

713
00:40:40,800 --> 00:40:43,080
Speaker 2: Were there any other labels in the.

714
00:40:43,160 --> 00:40:46,800
Speaker 1: Area or surrounding areas, I don't know how far Nashville

715
00:40:46,880 --> 00:40:48,960
Speaker 1: is or whatever.

716
00:40:49,320 --> 00:40:53,400
Speaker 2: In Memphis there was a label called gold Wax. Gotcha,

717
00:40:53,960 --> 00:40:56,960
Speaker 2: h James Carr, you're there before, I know, James Carr, Yes,

718
00:40:57,239 --> 00:40:59,160
Speaker 2: at the Dark end of the Street. Yeah, I know,

719
00:40:59,239 --> 00:41:02,520
Speaker 2: James Carr. You know, Chip Smallman was in Memphis. He

720
00:41:02,520 --> 00:41:05,400
Speaker 2: didn't have a label, but he was you know, he

721
00:41:05,440 --> 00:41:08,040
Speaker 2: had a he had a rhythm section. Got you then

722
00:41:08,080 --> 00:41:13,240
Speaker 2: you had then later on High Records came into play, okay,

723
00:41:13,440 --> 00:41:15,680
Speaker 2: you know with with you know, with Willie Mitchell and

724
00:41:15,719 --> 00:41:18,920
Speaker 2: all those guys. So Memphis was like fledging. You know,

725
00:41:18,960 --> 00:41:23,360
Speaker 2: you had Stacks. I mean I can remember I remember

726
00:41:23,640 --> 00:41:29,160
Speaker 2: Albel and Willie Mitchell standing on the parking lot and

727
00:41:29,200 --> 00:41:33,480
Speaker 2: Willie Mitchell says, so, man, you know have you heard that?

728
00:41:33,760 --> 00:41:35,560
Speaker 2: I mean, I just cut this new Al Green record.

729
00:41:36,440 --> 00:41:37,920
Speaker 2: You know, I want to play it for you to

730
00:41:37,920 --> 00:41:41,200
Speaker 2: see what you think about it. And then Albill might say,

731
00:41:41,280 --> 00:41:44,240
Speaker 2: you know, yeah, I'm gonna play you this new Isaac

732
00:41:44,280 --> 00:41:44,920
Speaker 2: CAE's record.

733
00:41:45,440 --> 00:41:49,040
Speaker 1: See what you think about Yeah? Are they recording on

734
00:41:49,120 --> 00:41:54,040
Speaker 1: the same mixing board or the same equipment? Because the

735
00:41:54,160 --> 00:41:57,759
Speaker 1: sound of Willie Mitchell and the sound of Stacks, I

736
00:41:57,800 --> 00:42:02,240
Speaker 1: don't know how to how to accurately describe the sonic

737
00:42:02,320 --> 00:42:05,560
Speaker 1: texture of it. Like when I compare Motown to Memphis,

738
00:42:05,960 --> 00:42:09,560
Speaker 1: I will say that Motown takes advantage of compression, and

739
00:42:09,600 --> 00:42:13,200
Speaker 1: they take advantage of reverb, so it sounds bigger, like

740
00:42:13,200 --> 00:42:15,280
Speaker 1: they're in the hall whatever. When you hear them collapse,

741
00:42:15,320 --> 00:42:19,080
Speaker 1: it sounds like it's in a big ass church, whereas

742
00:42:19,440 --> 00:42:22,480
Speaker 1: like all the Memphis songs sound very dry, like I

743
00:42:22,640 --> 00:42:27,760
Speaker 1: never you know. In black music, snare drums are usually

744
00:42:27,760 --> 00:42:32,960
Speaker 1: tuned very tight, but everything's like low, like super low

745
00:42:33,080 --> 00:42:34,840
Speaker 1: and more bottom heavy?

746
00:42:35,480 --> 00:42:36,880
Speaker 2: Was that by design?

747
00:42:37,360 --> 00:42:40,160
Speaker 1: Like, Okay, this is the Memphis sound where you guys

748
00:42:40,160 --> 00:42:43,879
Speaker 1: trying to be anti motown were even aware.

749
00:42:43,680 --> 00:42:46,040
Speaker 2: That there was You want the real answer?

750
00:42:46,600 --> 00:42:48,719
Speaker 1: Yeah, I do want the real answer, Like, do you

751
00:42:48,880 --> 00:42:53,399
Speaker 1: know that you're actively part of a movement without knowing it?

752
00:42:54,160 --> 00:43:00,160
Speaker 2: Probably though? Yeah, okay, yeah, we didn't know no about it. Okay, No,

753
00:43:00,280 --> 00:43:02,640
Speaker 2: that's that's a genuine answer. Yeah, we didn't know nobod

754
00:43:02,680 --> 00:43:05,120
Speaker 2: I mean we just I mean, I mean because most

755
00:43:05,160 --> 00:43:09,680
Speaker 2: of the time, I mean, man, you I mean, I mean, uh,

756
00:43:09,840 --> 00:43:12,200
Speaker 2: what are you at high or stacks or whatever? They

757
00:43:12,200 --> 00:43:14,759
Speaker 2: didn't really I mean, stack's really more than how we

758
00:43:14,840 --> 00:43:17,239
Speaker 2: didn't really have that much to work with, so you know,

759
00:43:17,400 --> 00:43:19,720
Speaker 2: just push push a few you push a few buttons

760
00:43:19,760 --> 00:43:21,600
Speaker 2: up and stuff like that, and then you know it's

761
00:43:21,880 --> 00:43:24,799
Speaker 2: it's all and popping. You know. That's the way it was.

762
00:43:25,480 --> 00:43:28,759
Speaker 2: I remember the incident I played on a song called

763
00:43:28,840 --> 00:43:32,839
Speaker 2: Cheap of the Keeper Johnny Tailorny Taylor. Yes, Don Davis came.

764
00:43:33,440 --> 00:43:35,200
Speaker 2: You know Don Davis used to come down to Memphis

765
00:43:35,239 --> 00:43:38,839
Speaker 2: and record a lot. Yes, and uh it cut Cheap

766
00:43:38,840 --> 00:43:41,960
Speaker 2: of the Keeper. Johnny Taylor was drunk, of course, you know,

767
00:43:42,000 --> 00:43:44,560
Speaker 2: he had a battle of wild Turkey in his hand,

768
00:43:44,600 --> 00:43:47,080
Speaker 2: and Don Davis had to go over there and grab

769
00:43:47,200 --> 00:43:49,360
Speaker 2: him in the coll and said, I do want you

770
00:43:49,440 --> 00:43:52,120
Speaker 2: to sing this goddamn song. I'm gonna kick you the

771
00:43:52,160 --> 00:43:55,200
Speaker 2: fucking ass. But anyway, so we went up in the

772
00:43:55,200 --> 00:43:57,239
Speaker 2: control room to listen to the playback or cheap of

773
00:43:57,280 --> 00:44:02,000
Speaker 2: the Keeper, and they kept playing it back, no base

774
00:44:02,080 --> 00:44:05,520
Speaker 2: on the song, right, So they said, uh, I mean,

775
00:44:05,840 --> 00:44:08,640
Speaker 2: they already knew what had happened, but they didn't tell me.

776
00:44:09,200 --> 00:44:13,200
Speaker 2: So they're gonna do this thing with me. James, did

777
00:44:13,200 --> 00:44:15,720
Speaker 2: you play on this track? Now? Man? You the bass

778
00:44:15,800 --> 00:44:18,759
Speaker 2: is bleeding because I'm standing. I'm standing close to the

779
00:44:19,440 --> 00:44:22,319
Speaker 2: drum track, so the bass is bleeding on the drum track.

780
00:44:22,400 --> 00:44:25,240
Speaker 2: So you do hear a little you hear a smidge

781
00:44:25,320 --> 00:44:30,000
Speaker 2: of the bass bleeding off the drum track. The engineer

782
00:44:30,040 --> 00:44:35,320
Speaker 2: pushed the bass module no bass because when he recorded,

783
00:44:35,400 --> 00:44:38,719
Speaker 2: he had the bass in preview or solo, but it

784
00:44:38,800 --> 00:44:41,920
Speaker 2: wasn't going on tape. Ah okay, And I'm getting the

785
00:44:42,000 --> 00:44:44,560
Speaker 2: lerious that this man I was man I was playing,

786
00:44:44,640 --> 00:44:48,080
Speaker 2: man called gaslighting you. Yeah, yeah, I was man I

787
00:44:48,160 --> 00:44:50,440
Speaker 2: was playing. And but they already knew what was happening.

788
00:44:51,040 --> 00:44:55,280
Speaker 2: By this time, the producer listened to the song several times,

789
00:44:55,960 --> 00:44:57,960
Speaker 2: said it was a rap. Go out there and put

790
00:44:57,960 --> 00:44:58,719
Speaker 2: the bass on the song.

791
00:44:59,600 --> 00:45:02,239
Speaker 1: Sure, okay, because I'm about to say, my memory of

792
00:45:02,280 --> 00:45:04,160
Speaker 1: it is you're the first thing I hear because it's

793
00:45:04,360 --> 00:45:09,680
Speaker 1: a jazzy dude. Dude you okay, So you overdubbed it.

794
00:45:09,840 --> 00:45:12,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, they just I mean they just stayed up in

795
00:45:12,400 --> 00:45:14,359
Speaker 2: the control everybody else stayed up in the control room.

796
00:45:14,640 --> 00:45:17,200
Speaker 2: What happened was the engineer was one of these little

797
00:45:18,280 --> 00:45:21,279
Speaker 2: one of these little engineers that you know, just starting out,

798
00:45:21,560 --> 00:45:24,480
Speaker 2: and he got excited. He got excited because Johnny Taylor

799
00:45:24,520 --> 00:45:26,680
Speaker 2: was in the building and all of that stuff like that,

800
00:45:27,000 --> 00:45:31,240
Speaker 2: and uh, and just forgot to put the base and records.

801
00:45:31,320 --> 00:45:33,319
Speaker 1: So you overdubb it because in my mind, I'm like,

802
00:45:33,480 --> 00:45:34,719
Speaker 1: I know there's based on that.

803
00:45:34,800 --> 00:45:35,919
Speaker 2: Okay, I see.

804
00:45:36,080 --> 00:45:38,560
Speaker 1: So the entire barcades of the rhythm section for Cheap

805
00:45:38,560 --> 00:45:40,760
Speaker 1: of the Keeper, no just or just you Okay.

806
00:45:41,040 --> 00:45:44,920
Speaker 2: Yeah. I ended up playing on a lot of sessions. Uh,

807
00:45:45,239 --> 00:45:48,719
Speaker 2: Duck was supposed to be playing, okay, but Duck liked

808
00:45:48,719 --> 00:45:54,200
Speaker 2: to play golf. Okay, okay, So my very first session

809
00:45:54,280 --> 00:45:57,960
Speaker 2: as Stacks was on the Soul Children. Now, man you.

810
00:45:58,960 --> 00:46:01,960
Speaker 2: I had another encounter Steve Cropper, because Steve Cropper was

811
00:46:01,960 --> 00:46:07,640
Speaker 2: the session leader. So we ready to start the session, right,

812
00:46:07,920 --> 00:46:10,720
Speaker 2: Steve Cropper said, we read to start the session. Who's

813
00:46:10,760 --> 00:46:16,080
Speaker 2: gonna play bass? Where's Duck? Duck is not here, So

814
00:46:16,160 --> 00:46:19,040
Speaker 2: Duck is not there, so I guess we got to

815
00:46:19,120 --> 00:46:24,600
Speaker 2: use nuck. Duck was Duck, I am, and we both

816
00:46:24,640 --> 00:46:31,600
Speaker 2: don't give a fuck. So my first session was Isaac

817
00:46:31,600 --> 00:46:36,240
Speaker 2: Cage and David Porter recording by the Soldier and called

818
00:46:36,600 --> 00:46:39,399
Speaker 2: the sweeter of he is okay, the longer the pain.

819
00:46:40,239 --> 00:46:42,520
Speaker 2: So I said, you know what, if I fuck this

820
00:46:42,600 --> 00:46:44,680
Speaker 2: song up here, I need to quit because all the

821
00:46:44,719 --> 00:46:50,440
Speaker 2: song was, I mean the basis of the song that

822
00:46:50,560 --> 00:46:53,720
Speaker 2: was the whole song basically had a couple of changes

823
00:46:53,760 --> 00:46:55,520
Speaker 2: in it. But if I missed this up, I mean,

824
00:46:55,600 --> 00:46:58,200
Speaker 2: Duck is probably never gonna go let me, you know,

825
00:46:58,280 --> 00:47:01,640
Speaker 2: sit in and again. But fortunately I didn't mess it up.

826
00:47:02,239 --> 00:47:04,040
Speaker 2: Now this is after the plane crash, so they start

827
00:47:04,080 --> 00:47:08,120
Speaker 2: bringing our whole rhythm section there because a lot of

828
00:47:08,120 --> 00:47:10,560
Speaker 2: the producers wanted to use our rhythm section because when

829
00:47:10,600 --> 00:47:14,160
Speaker 2: you're a young musician, you don't really think about what

830
00:47:14,200 --> 00:47:17,160
Speaker 2: you're doing. You just do some shit. But as you

831
00:47:17,200 --> 00:47:20,879
Speaker 2: get older, you know, you start second guessing yourself. You said,

832
00:47:21,600 --> 00:47:25,040
Speaker 2: I wonder what this work. But when you're young, just man,

833
00:47:25,440 --> 00:47:28,560
Speaker 2: just do it. You don't even think it. So the

834
00:47:28,600 --> 00:47:31,440
Speaker 2: producers like the fact that a lot of times we

835
00:47:31,560 --> 00:47:34,719
Speaker 2: just always do some spontaneous type shit. And then they

836
00:47:35,000 --> 00:47:39,560
Speaker 2: liked that, gotcha, So we started more and more. We

837
00:47:39,640 --> 00:47:42,920
Speaker 2: started instead of them using you know, Booker t and

838
00:47:42,960 --> 00:47:46,799
Speaker 2: the MG's and the MG's at the rhythm section. It

839
00:47:47,160 --> 00:47:51,279
Speaker 2: usually when Booker was in college, it would Isaac Cages

840
00:47:51,280 --> 00:47:53,800
Speaker 2: would would play the keyboards, gotcha, and then sometimes it

841
00:47:53,960 --> 00:47:54,600
Speaker 2: be both of them.

842
00:47:55,160 --> 00:47:59,040
Speaker 1: So when you're called in procession, are you getting a

843
00:47:59,160 --> 00:48:02,600
Speaker 1: tape of the song beforehand? A week beforehand? Are they

844
00:48:02,600 --> 00:48:04,719
Speaker 1: sending you charge or you're getting there?

845
00:48:05,560 --> 00:48:07,520
Speaker 2: None of that, dude, we don't do it.

846
00:48:07,560 --> 00:48:12,640
Speaker 1: Okay, name a non Barka's non otis Redding hit that

847
00:48:12,680 --> 00:48:16,680
Speaker 1: you were on. Just just something from Hot Buttery sol

848
00:48:16,800 --> 00:48:19,800
Speaker 1: or whatever a King which which song.

849
00:48:19,920 --> 00:48:22,080
Speaker 2: Not going on the bed side, But like I'll play

850
00:48:22,120 --> 00:48:25,440
Speaker 2: the blues for you, all of that, that's all of that.

851
00:48:25,440 --> 00:48:26,200
Speaker 2: That's your album.

852
00:48:26,280 --> 00:48:30,759
Speaker 1: Yeah, your level of getting sampled, Yeah, I got, I

853
00:48:30,760 --> 00:48:35,319
Speaker 1: got questions for Jazzy after you. Yeah, okay, so you're

854
00:48:35,400 --> 00:48:38,120
Speaker 1: getting called for a session. Well, see what Albert King.

855
00:48:38,840 --> 00:48:39,480
Speaker 1: It's also the.

856
00:48:39,400 --> 00:48:43,239
Speaker 2: Blues, so you know it's gonna be a one four five. Yeah,

857
00:48:43,280 --> 00:48:45,760
Speaker 2: but but he did some uh he did some stuff

858
00:48:45,760 --> 00:48:47,960
Speaker 2: with some changes in it too. Well you know, not

859
00:48:48,000 --> 00:48:50,480
Speaker 2: that a change. It's just one four five, you know,

860
00:48:50,680 --> 00:48:53,279
Speaker 2: just like you said, one four five, we called it

861
00:48:53,360 --> 00:48:57,319
Speaker 2: sealson Roebuck. Why do you call it seius and robutause

862
00:48:57,320 --> 00:49:01,040
Speaker 2: there's one four five, So sealson roebucks another name for it,

863
00:49:01,080 --> 00:49:01,640
Speaker 2: you know what I mean.

864
00:49:01,960 --> 00:49:05,080
Speaker 1: So that's the basic ground level of knowledge that you

865
00:49:05,120 --> 00:49:08,160
Speaker 1: should have when you are playing a session is.

866
00:49:09,640 --> 00:49:12,600
Speaker 2: Series and robots. You should do that. But then you know,

867
00:49:13,280 --> 00:49:17,760
Speaker 2: fast forwarding, Uh, what I did a couple of Nashville sessions,

868
00:49:18,440 --> 00:49:23,240
Speaker 2: and Nashville is a numbers uh city. They do the numbers, okay.

869
00:49:24,160 --> 00:49:26,719
Speaker 2: And the first time I did the session up there,

870
00:49:27,440 --> 00:49:29,560
Speaker 2: they put this chart in from me with the numbers,

871
00:49:30,680 --> 00:49:33,400
Speaker 2: and then many almost laughed me out of the studio

872
00:49:33,440 --> 00:49:35,359
Speaker 2: because this man, I said, Man, I don't know how

873
00:49:35,360 --> 00:49:36,839
Speaker 2: to do this ship like that. I said, man, would

874
00:49:36,880 --> 00:49:39,000
Speaker 2: y'all just play the demo and let me learn the

875
00:49:39,040 --> 00:49:41,440
Speaker 2: song and they said, no, we don't do it like that, homeboy.

876
00:49:41,880 --> 00:49:44,000
Speaker 1: So far are people listening when they do numbers? You

877
00:49:44,080 --> 00:49:46,680
Speaker 1: saw Okay play one for five, so you're supposed to

878
00:49:46,719 --> 00:49:47,000
Speaker 1: know that.

879
00:49:47,160 --> 00:49:50,799
Speaker 2: Yeah, I was. I wasn't with it, so he has

880
00:49:50,840 --> 00:49:52,320
Speaker 2: a trial by fire life.

881
00:49:52,440 --> 00:49:55,319
Speaker 1: As far as learning, yeah, okay, going back to what

882
00:49:55,400 --> 00:49:57,400
Speaker 1: you asked, we were just set around.

883
00:49:57,840 --> 00:50:00,719
Speaker 2: Sometimes the song wasn't even created all the way, you

884
00:50:00,760 --> 00:50:02,319
Speaker 2: know what I mean. They had the idea for the

885
00:50:02,360 --> 00:50:05,000
Speaker 2: song and they said, man, you know, just come up

886
00:50:05,040 --> 00:50:07,680
Speaker 2: with something of something. Okay, think of something. Yeah, I

887
00:50:07,800 --> 00:50:10,200
Speaker 2: like that, got you got this lovely? I mean we

888
00:50:10,520 --> 00:50:13,319
Speaker 2: set around in a circle and the writer might be

889
00:50:13,360 --> 00:50:14,880
Speaker 2: in there and they might have the demo and we

890
00:50:14,920 --> 00:50:16,640
Speaker 2: come up with something like that. It was there was

891
00:50:16,880 --> 00:50:18,800
Speaker 2: a lot of it was just I mean off the cuff.

892
00:50:30,960 --> 00:50:34,240
Speaker 1: So I'll say that the one when people do Stax

893
00:50:34,320 --> 00:50:39,800
Speaker 1: versus Motown comparisons is Stax is also famous for instrumentals.

894
00:50:40,760 --> 00:50:46,080
Speaker 1: Now I'm talking about pre Larry Barcays. But at no

895
00:50:46,280 --> 00:50:51,320
Speaker 1: point in the Foundational years were you guys ever thinking

896
00:50:51,360 --> 00:50:54,200
Speaker 1: about adding a lead vocalist to the group so that

897
00:50:54,560 --> 00:50:57,560
Speaker 1: you can expand your repertoire and do other things.

898
00:50:57,920 --> 00:51:01,120
Speaker 2: Well, we had some believe vocals, but the way we

899
00:51:01,239 --> 00:51:03,200
Speaker 2: used to do that, we used to bring them on

900
00:51:03,360 --> 00:51:07,400
Speaker 2: and let them do two or three songs sittings. Yeah, gotcha,

901
00:51:07,480 --> 00:51:10,359
Speaker 2: and then we do our set. Gotcha. But we had

902
00:51:10,400 --> 00:51:14,279
Speaker 2: a unique way of doing instrumentals. So even though a

903
00:51:14,320 --> 00:51:17,560
Speaker 2: single was not there, it felt like a single was

904
00:51:17,600 --> 00:51:21,200
Speaker 2: there because we played the melody so beautifully. Gotcha. If

905
00:51:21,239 --> 00:51:24,759
Speaker 2: you ever listened to with a child's heart, yeah, I know.

906
00:51:24,920 --> 00:51:27,960
Speaker 2: So we got away with it. But after a while,

907
00:51:28,200 --> 00:51:31,400
Speaker 2: you know, as time went on, it's you know, I

908
00:51:31,480 --> 00:51:33,800
Speaker 2: must tell you, it did start getting a little redundant,

909
00:51:33,880 --> 00:51:35,080
Speaker 2: you know what I mean.

910
00:51:35,320 --> 00:51:40,640
Speaker 1: But with instrumentals, though, how were the soloing chops? Because

911
00:51:40,680 --> 00:51:43,319
Speaker 1: I mean, besides playing like the main melody and the

912
00:51:43,400 --> 00:51:46,560
Speaker 1: course and all that, I'm serting at some point, like

913
00:51:47,200 --> 00:51:53,160
Speaker 1: is being a virtuoso soloists also a requirement?

914
00:51:53,400 --> 00:51:57,960
Speaker 2: Or was just keeping a tight rhythm section? Basically keep

915
00:51:58,000 --> 00:52:02,200
Speaker 2: it tight rhythm section because in the original ball case,

916
00:52:03,160 --> 00:52:06,719
Speaker 2: the only really there was only one per well, wasn't

917
00:52:06,719 --> 00:52:09,040
Speaker 2: all those two people that could really do you know,

918
00:52:09,600 --> 00:52:12,879
Speaker 2: decent solos? And that was a guitar player and being

919
00:52:13,000 --> 00:52:16,560
Speaker 2: calling to the trumpet player everybody else was just like,

920
00:52:16,760 --> 00:52:21,720
Speaker 2: you know, hey, we go. Google stays close to the script,

921
00:52:21,840 --> 00:52:25,600
Speaker 2: you know, just they acomplishment. So right now on.

922
00:52:25,560 --> 00:52:29,840
Speaker 1: Social media, the big thing is that both Tupac and

923
00:52:29,960 --> 00:52:34,400
Speaker 1: Otis Redding passed away at the same age. And for

924
00:52:34,480 --> 00:52:37,640
Speaker 1: a lot of us, we included When you first hear

925
00:52:37,760 --> 00:52:42,480
Speaker 1: Otis Redding sing, I naturally thought, oh, yeah, he's like

926
00:52:42,600 --> 00:52:48,600
Speaker 1: forty two, maybe maybe fifty three. And I know, generationally speaking,

927
00:52:48,920 --> 00:52:52,880
Speaker 1: we get younger by the generation. I just turned fifty five.

928
00:52:53,239 --> 00:52:55,799
Speaker 1: I still feel like I'm in my thirties. You look

929
00:52:55,920 --> 00:52:58,280
Speaker 1: young as hell. I don't even you know what I mean.

930
00:52:58,360 --> 00:53:04,319
Speaker 2: Like seventy six, dude, your birthday was Tuesday, related, My

931
00:53:04,400 --> 00:53:07,560
Speaker 2: birthday was Monday. There you go, Capricorn, still quering power.

932
00:53:07,640 --> 00:53:11,200
Speaker 2: There you go. Tell me how Otis Redding enters the picture.

933
00:53:11,719 --> 00:53:14,800
Speaker 2: And was he always an old soul like that? Always

934
00:53:14,840 --> 00:53:17,480
Speaker 2: an old soul like even to you guys, was he

935
00:53:17,480 --> 00:53:20,360
Speaker 2: an old soul? Or was he like a big brother

936
00:53:20,520 --> 00:53:23,400
Speaker 2: to us? Like a big brother. But you know, the

937
00:53:23,440 --> 00:53:26,719
Speaker 2: age difference, it wasn't drastic. It was like when I

938
00:53:26,840 --> 00:53:30,400
Speaker 2: was seventeen, he was twenty five. He's like that, you

939
00:53:30,480 --> 00:53:33,080
Speaker 2: know what I mean, We're all twenty five year olders

940
00:53:33,560 --> 00:53:38,760
Speaker 2: like that. No, No, he was he man the oldest.

941
00:53:39,000 --> 00:53:41,799
Speaker 2: He was a different type of cat. Okay, this guy,

942
00:53:42,400 --> 00:53:44,600
Speaker 2: he was the first guy that told us about publishing.

943
00:53:44,680 --> 00:53:47,080
Speaker 2: I didn't. I mean, okay, first of all, when I

944
00:53:47,120 --> 00:53:50,720
Speaker 2: signed my first record contract, I didn't even read the contract.

945
00:53:50,719 --> 00:53:54,880
Speaker 2: I just signed. Oh no, But you have to understand,

946
00:53:54,920 --> 00:53:57,520
Speaker 2: I signed my first contract when I was sixteen years old.

947
00:53:57,800 --> 00:54:00,600
Speaker 2: I was so happy that, you know, give the deal

948
00:54:00,719 --> 00:54:02,480
Speaker 2: and just signed the contract. You know you're supposed to

949
00:54:03,200 --> 00:54:05,400
Speaker 2: get You know, we really weren't supposed to sign the

950
00:54:05,400 --> 00:54:06,719
Speaker 2: contract sand it.

951
00:54:07,120 --> 00:54:13,400
Speaker 1: You were also underage. Yeah, was that contract legal technically speaking?

952
00:54:13,640 --> 00:54:16,719
Speaker 2: Contract was full of shit? Okay, it was. It was

953
00:54:16,800 --> 00:54:20,080
Speaker 2: bad got you, but you know we signed it anyway

954
00:54:20,080 --> 00:54:22,840
Speaker 2: because we wanted to got a record. Yeah on the record. Yeah?

955
00:54:23,200 --> 00:54:27,640
Speaker 2: Did you guys have a record contract with Stacks pre

956
00:54:27,880 --> 00:54:31,160
Speaker 2: or post of this writing before? It was before? Okay,

957
00:54:31,239 --> 00:54:33,759
Speaker 2: And in fact, that's how it heard of us. Got you?

958
00:54:34,400 --> 00:54:37,680
Speaker 2: He was in town. Back then, they used to do

959
00:54:37,760 --> 00:54:40,600
Speaker 2: package shows where you would be eight or nine people

960
00:54:40,640 --> 00:54:44,120
Speaker 2: on the show, and most of the time you would

961
00:54:44,160 --> 00:54:47,279
Speaker 2: only do whatever your hit was and maybe one other

962
00:54:47,400 --> 00:54:50,200
Speaker 2: song got you. So the whole show uses the last

963
00:54:50,200 --> 00:54:52,879
Speaker 2: for like an hour and fifteen minutes and be nine

964
00:54:52,920 --> 00:54:54,960
Speaker 2: people on the show, a bunch of hits and cover

965
00:54:55,080 --> 00:54:57,760
Speaker 2: yeah it hits. Yeah, but if you did three songs

966
00:54:57,760 --> 00:55:01,040
Speaker 2: on the show, you was a star. Got you? Okay?

967
00:55:01,040 --> 00:55:02,759
Speaker 2: And then you know Otis Redding his ship was like

968
00:55:02,800 --> 00:55:06,719
Speaker 2: thirty minutes, so you know he was superstar. Right, so

969
00:55:06,760 --> 00:55:10,080
Speaker 2: Otis was in town. I think the show was Oldis

970
00:55:10,200 --> 00:55:18,600
Speaker 2: reading the Manhattan's Arthur Connolly, m Betty Swan. I can't

971
00:55:18,680 --> 00:55:20,880
Speaker 2: remember who else was. Maybe Colin Thomas may have been

972
00:55:20,920 --> 00:55:24,480
Speaker 2: on the show. But as you well know, in speaking

973
00:55:24,520 --> 00:55:27,279
Speaker 2: to you earlier, it seemed like, you know, you know

974
00:55:27,320 --> 00:55:29,080
Speaker 2: one of those guys that like to go out after

975
00:55:29,120 --> 00:55:31,120
Speaker 2: the show. Yeah you don't, do you?

976
00:55:31,200 --> 00:55:31,239
Speaker 1: No?

977
00:55:31,680 --> 00:55:35,239
Speaker 2: Well we did, gotcha. You know, the show, then the

978
00:55:35,280 --> 00:55:37,760
Speaker 2: after party, and then the after party, after the after party.

979
00:55:37,880 --> 00:55:41,239
Speaker 2: What happened all night, all night long. But anyway, we

980
00:55:41,239 --> 00:55:44,320
Speaker 2: were playing at this club called the Hippodrome, got you,

981
00:55:44,600 --> 00:55:49,000
Speaker 2: five hundred Bill Street. That's the address. That's a parking lot, now, yeah,

982
00:55:48,640 --> 00:55:51,600
Speaker 2: I'm familiar with it. Anyway, we were playing at this

983
00:55:51,640 --> 00:55:55,560
Speaker 2: club illegally of course. Okay, so Otis wanted to go

984
00:55:55,600 --> 00:55:58,040
Speaker 2: out after he do a short at the coliseum. So

985
00:55:58,080 --> 00:56:00,640
Speaker 2: he comes down to the Hippi draw he see this

986
00:56:00,760 --> 00:56:05,920
Speaker 2: band and this particular night he was in rare Form

987
00:56:06,840 --> 00:56:10,680
Speaker 2: and so he asked Al Bell and Al Jackson, which

988
00:56:10,960 --> 00:56:13,200
Speaker 2: Al Bell and Al Jackson were kind of like part

989
00:56:13,239 --> 00:56:17,120
Speaker 2: owners of the club, who is this band? And they

990
00:56:17,160 --> 00:56:19,439
Speaker 2: told him. He said, do you think they know any

991
00:56:19,480 --> 00:56:24,000
Speaker 2: of my songs? And he said, asked them, So he

992
00:56:24,120 --> 00:56:25,560
Speaker 2: called out a couple of songs. I think one of

993
00:56:25,640 --> 00:56:29,360
Speaker 2: us k turned you Loose and we really didn't know it,

994
00:56:29,440 --> 00:56:32,279
Speaker 2: but we kind of like knew of it, but we

995
00:56:33,160 --> 00:56:34,960
Speaker 2: were one of those we could fake it till we

996
00:56:35,000 --> 00:56:38,480
Speaker 2: make it. So he came up on stage, we did

997
00:56:38,520 --> 00:56:40,680
Speaker 2: the song with him, and he said, man, I got

998
00:56:40,719 --> 00:56:44,240
Speaker 2: to have these guys for my band. Now, man, you

999
00:56:44,440 --> 00:56:48,239
Speaker 2: otis had He had a twelve maybe a fourteen piece band,

1000
00:56:48,280 --> 00:56:51,880
Speaker 2: you know, horns, all of that, and so what really

1001
00:56:51,960 --> 00:56:54,480
Speaker 2: dripped him out was he kept looking up on the

1002
00:56:54,520 --> 00:56:57,880
Speaker 2: stage and he kept looking around trying to see what

1003
00:56:57,960 --> 00:57:00,560
Speaker 2: the rest of the people was. It was just six people.

1004
00:57:00,560 --> 00:57:04,560
Speaker 2: Don't stay got you, but the sound was big. So

1005
00:57:04,600 --> 00:57:06,520
Speaker 2: he said, I got to have these dudes from my band.

1006
00:57:07,440 --> 00:57:10,759
Speaker 2: So he stayed in town extra day because he wanted

1007
00:57:10,800 --> 00:57:14,000
Speaker 2: to talk to our parents. Gotcha, he wanted us to

1008
00:57:14,000 --> 00:57:16,680
Speaker 2: go on the road with him. Right, we were getting

1009
00:57:16,720 --> 00:57:21,440
Speaker 2: all hyped up and excited, and our parents said, hell

1010
00:57:21,720 --> 00:57:30,000
Speaker 2: no to the no, no, no to the Really they said,

1011
00:57:30,360 --> 00:57:32,720
Speaker 2: I mean, come, man, were still in high school, all

1012
00:57:32,840 --> 00:57:35,720
Speaker 2: of the parents were, and they were all in the agreement.

1013
00:57:35,880 --> 00:57:38,520
Speaker 2: In agreement, they said, Look, everybody was in the twelfth

1014
00:57:38,520 --> 00:57:41,080
Speaker 2: grade except me. I was in the elevel because I'm

1015
00:57:41,120 --> 00:57:42,800
Speaker 2: you know, like I was kind of like the youngest.

1016
00:57:42,960 --> 00:57:46,000
Speaker 2: Got you, So he said, I don't know, but I

1017
00:57:46,000 --> 00:57:49,200
Speaker 2: got to have these guys by band. So graduation was

1018
00:57:49,240 --> 00:57:52,120
Speaker 2: like at the end of May, first of June. So

1019
00:57:52,200 --> 00:57:55,280
Speaker 2: when they graduated, you know, I still had another year.

1020
00:57:55,920 --> 00:57:59,600
Speaker 2: The day we graduated, you know, most people have graduation parties.

1021
00:58:00,440 --> 00:58:03,840
Speaker 2: The same day we graduated, we left and went on

1022
00:58:03,880 --> 00:58:07,320
Speaker 2: the road. Or we flew from Memphis to New York

1023
00:58:08,280 --> 00:58:10,400
Speaker 2: to play with the Otis Redding where.

1024
00:58:10,160 --> 00:58:13,280
Speaker 1: In New York the Apollo Theater. Oh my god, our

1025
00:58:13,320 --> 00:58:16,040
Speaker 1: first gig. What did you know about the Apollo before

1026
00:58:16,080 --> 00:58:16,720
Speaker 1: you got there?

1027
00:58:17,160 --> 00:58:19,040
Speaker 2: Nothing? You didn't hear.

1028
00:58:19,080 --> 00:58:22,640
Speaker 1: You didn't hear the legend of the Apollo theaters. That's

1029
00:58:22,680 --> 00:58:24,840
Speaker 1: good that's actually good. That's good for you.

1030
00:58:25,120 --> 00:58:27,200
Speaker 2: Look, you have to here's what you have to understand.

1031
00:58:27,760 --> 00:58:31,160
Speaker 2: You're talking about some country bunkins. Up to this point

1032
00:58:31,160 --> 00:58:35,640
Speaker 2: in our lives Memphis, we never we had gone no

1033
00:58:35,760 --> 00:58:38,680
Speaker 2: more than thirty or forty mile raiders all the way

1034
00:58:38,720 --> 00:58:43,400
Speaker 2: around from Memphis Tennessee. Got you, you know, maybe black Ville, Lockis,

1035
00:58:44,520 --> 00:58:46,160
Speaker 2: West Memphis across the bridge.

1036
00:58:46,360 --> 00:58:49,320
Speaker 1: We hadn't gone anywhere. I was taught to be afraid

1037
00:58:49,360 --> 00:58:51,520
Speaker 1: of the Apollo. You know, my dad would always tells

1038
00:58:51,520 --> 00:58:53,840
Speaker 1: me stories. My dad was like an oldiesdu op singer

1039
00:58:53,840 --> 00:58:55,520
Speaker 1: back in the field. We were fearless.

1040
00:58:55,520 --> 00:58:58,680
Speaker 2: So we didn't know what what what got me though,

1041
00:58:58,800 --> 00:59:00,360
Speaker 2: because you know I was kind of like the hype

1042
00:59:00,400 --> 00:59:03,640
Speaker 2: man or something like that. Yeah. So, uh before we

1043
00:59:03,760 --> 00:59:08,280
Speaker 2: played with Otis, which mind you, we never had a

1044
00:59:08,320 --> 00:59:12,960
Speaker 2: rehearsal with Otis. Ready, can we just call out the songs? No?

1045
00:59:13,400 --> 00:59:16,480
Speaker 2: Because we kept asking, man, when don't we go rehearse?

1046
00:59:16,920 --> 00:59:18,560
Speaker 2: Oh man, y'all know my shit, man, we ain't get

1047
00:59:18,560 --> 00:59:21,920
Speaker 2: to rehearsal. So the only rehearsal we had with Otis

1048
00:59:22,400 --> 00:59:25,600
Speaker 2: down in the basement at the Apollo Theater. We had

1049
00:59:25,640 --> 00:59:29,120
Speaker 2: a talk rehearsal. No instruments. We just talked it through.

1050
00:59:29,920 --> 00:59:31,680
Speaker 2: He said, Man, y'all got it.

1051
00:59:32,000 --> 00:59:35,800
Speaker 1: Okay, So when you're doing these gigs the way in

1052
00:59:35,800 --> 00:59:39,120
Speaker 1: my life is now, it's definitely like three hour sound

1053
00:59:39,200 --> 00:59:42,880
Speaker 1: checks you get there twelve one, two, three. Oh, No,

1054
00:59:42,960 --> 00:59:46,080
Speaker 1: it was a sound check a thing or monitor is

1055
00:59:46,120 --> 00:59:48,480
Speaker 1: a thing? Was the sound guy a thing?

1056
00:59:49,160 --> 00:59:52,280
Speaker 2: If you had two mics on stage, you were doing great.

1057
00:59:52,480 --> 00:59:55,880
Speaker 1: So it's the sound just naturally coming from your amp

1058
00:59:56,440 --> 01:00:02,040
Speaker 1: and the drums. There's no mics, two mics, monitors, no.

1059
01:00:01,560 --> 01:00:03,640
Speaker 2: None of that. If you was on stage and you

1060
01:00:03,720 --> 01:00:06,440
Speaker 2: had two oh, if you had three bikes on stage,

1061
01:00:06,640 --> 01:00:08,600
Speaker 2: you was swat shit.

1062
01:00:09,440 --> 01:00:14,440
Speaker 1: Someone told me Ray Charles having five microphones for his

1063
01:00:14,520 --> 01:00:17,520
Speaker 1: sole stage show was like a major thing. Like he

1064
01:00:17,640 --> 01:00:22,040
Speaker 1: insisted on the raylets him his piano, and then the band,

1065
01:00:22,080 --> 01:00:25,560
Speaker 1: the rhythm section. And okay, so if I'm in the

1066
01:00:25,600 --> 01:00:29,000
Speaker 1: Apollo Theater and the newsbleed third row, the.

1067
01:00:29,000 --> 01:00:32,240
Speaker 2: Top row up, you still gonna hear it everything.

1068
01:00:32,640 --> 01:00:35,040
Speaker 1: I gotta imagine that, because you know, I'm used to

1069
01:00:35,040 --> 01:00:37,840
Speaker 1: a life where there's I mean, you've seen modern concerts

1070
01:00:37,880 --> 01:00:40,200
Speaker 1: now with speakers and speakers and speakers.

1071
01:00:40,440 --> 01:00:44,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, well you know you know these guys man I

1072
01:00:44,240 --> 01:00:45,320
Speaker 2: can't hear my monitor.

1073
01:00:45,840 --> 01:00:48,080
Speaker 1: Is this why I see a lot of sixties cats

1074
01:00:48,080 --> 01:00:51,480
Speaker 1: hold their ear when they sing? Yeah, Ronald Eisley, every

1075
01:00:51,480 --> 01:00:53,840
Speaker 1: clip I've ever seen of the Eisley Brothers, like pre

1076
01:00:54,360 --> 01:00:57,160
Speaker 1: nineteen seventy five, he's always hold right so you can

1077
01:00:57,200 --> 01:00:58,400
Speaker 1: hear that's so he can hear him.

1078
01:00:58,440 --> 01:01:01,520
Speaker 2: That's his monitor. This is your monitor. Yeah, And then

1079
01:01:02,120 --> 01:01:04,120
Speaker 2: I came up with an era that you're supposed to

1080
01:01:04,160 --> 01:01:06,240
Speaker 2: know this show. So if you don't have any monitors,

1081
01:01:06,280 --> 01:01:07,800
Speaker 2: you're supposed to know what you're supposed to be doing,

1082
01:01:08,400 --> 01:01:10,880
Speaker 2: when and where you're supposed to be doing it at.

1083
01:01:11,040 --> 01:01:14,920
Speaker 2: So these younger guys they over play monitors. Man, you know,

1084
01:01:15,080 --> 01:01:17,160
Speaker 2: I mean, you know, if you know, if you know

1085
01:01:17,200 --> 01:01:19,120
Speaker 2: what you're doing, you know, you don't really need all

1086
01:01:19,120 --> 01:01:21,640
Speaker 2: of that. Man, I can't hear the monitsor then you

1087
01:01:21,680 --> 01:01:23,320
Speaker 2: know you came up with now you got in the

1088
01:01:23,360 --> 01:01:26,200
Speaker 2: ears and all of that. Yeah, man, I didn't, so

1089
01:01:26,400 --> 01:01:30,920
Speaker 2: I'm spoiled. Sorry, I know, I don't even use none

1090
01:01:30,960 --> 01:01:33,280
Speaker 2: of that. I don't use no in ears. If I

1091
01:01:33,320 --> 01:01:36,240
Speaker 2: have monitors, fine, if I don't, it's still fine. Got

1092
01:01:36,280 --> 01:01:38,240
Speaker 2: you you know, I mean, but now you know you

1093
01:01:38,320 --> 01:01:41,080
Speaker 2: got side fields you got all this, you're gonna you know,

1094
01:01:41,480 --> 01:01:45,520
Speaker 2: what is that first or this reading show? Like and

1095
01:01:45,600 --> 01:01:48,960
Speaker 2: again no one's telling you guys, y'all better be good

1096
01:01:48,960 --> 01:01:51,840
Speaker 2: because the New York crowds is tough. Well, first of all,

1097
01:01:53,040 --> 01:01:56,440
Speaker 2: our first thing with otis Redding. Well, we played the

1098
01:01:56,480 --> 01:02:01,120
Speaker 2: Apollo for ten days, four shows. We played on the

1099
01:02:01,200 --> 01:02:04,360
Speaker 2: average at least three shows a day. I think over

1100
01:02:04,360 --> 01:02:08,160
Speaker 2: that ten day period we played Priorday about maybe I

1101
01:02:08,240 --> 01:02:10,640
Speaker 2: stand to be corrected. We played about thirty shows over

1102
01:02:10,680 --> 01:02:14,400
Speaker 2: that ten days. Thirty shows. Yeah, because okay, like on Wednesday,

1103
01:02:14,440 --> 01:02:18,040
Speaker 2: give me that tenerary Wednesday with you know, Matt Dee.

1104
01:02:18,560 --> 01:02:21,000
Speaker 2: First of all, they didn't turn the house. So if

1105
01:02:21,000 --> 01:02:24,120
Speaker 2: you came to show at one o'clock and the last

1106
01:02:24,120 --> 01:02:26,640
Speaker 2: show maybe started nine to forty five, or somebody stay

1107
01:02:26,680 --> 01:02:30,720
Speaker 2: there all day. Oh yeah, some parents made the Apollo

1108
01:02:31,160 --> 01:02:34,680
Speaker 2: their daycare center because they come drop the kids off

1109
01:02:34,680 --> 01:02:37,200
Speaker 2: at the Apollo because you know, after the show, they're

1110
01:02:37,200 --> 01:02:39,360
Speaker 2: gonna show a movie. Then they gonna show a show,

1111
01:02:40,160 --> 01:02:45,880
Speaker 2: movie show, movie show. Really yeah, same thing at the

1112
01:02:45,960 --> 01:02:48,720
Speaker 2: Uptown and you're in your hometown. Okay, so I'm paying

1113
01:02:48,800 --> 01:02:52,120
Speaker 2: what five bucks to get in? Yeah, maybe three to

1114
01:02:52,200 --> 01:02:54,240
Speaker 2: five bucks, maybe three bucks, and you can stay.

1115
01:02:54,040 --> 01:02:56,360
Speaker 1: There all and I could stay there all day, all day,

1116
01:02:57,200 --> 01:02:58,040
Speaker 1: watch a movie.

1117
01:02:58,120 --> 01:03:01,720
Speaker 2: They show a film and come out. Your parents might

1118
01:03:01,800 --> 01:03:04,400
Speaker 2: give you five bucks so you can get your hot

1119
01:03:04,400 --> 01:03:06,320
Speaker 2: dog or some popcorn or something you know you got,

1120
01:03:06,720 --> 01:03:09,280
Speaker 2: you know, so day care. I would do anything to

1121
01:03:09,520 --> 01:03:14,840
Speaker 2: witness that. Yeah, so imagine now we some country bunkers

1122
01:03:14,840 --> 01:03:17,120
Speaker 2: then came all the way up from Memphis Tendency to

1123
01:03:17,320 --> 01:03:21,240
Speaker 2: New York City. We only had one uniform. We planned

1124
01:03:21,240 --> 01:03:24,760
Speaker 2: Apollo for ten days. You're answering the question I always

1125
01:03:24,800 --> 01:03:25,280
Speaker 2: wanted to know.

1126
01:03:25,640 --> 01:03:29,680
Speaker 1: Now again, James Brown's whole thing is you get fined

1127
01:03:29,680 --> 01:03:31,920
Speaker 1: if there's a spot or wrinkle, Your shoes better be

1128
01:03:31,960 --> 01:03:33,040
Speaker 1: shining and all that stuff.

1129
01:03:34,000 --> 01:03:36,040
Speaker 2: I've heard these records, I've seen these shows.

1130
01:03:36,040 --> 01:03:43,240
Speaker 1: I've seen like footage, you're sweating, So how are you

1131
01:03:43,920 --> 01:03:46,280
Speaker 1: caring for him? Assuming that you're wearing white shirts?

1132
01:03:46,520 --> 01:03:51,240
Speaker 2: The uniforms it was, I don't know, do you know anything?

1133
01:03:51,400 --> 01:03:54,880
Speaker 2: Have you ever heard of a slack soup before? Wear

1134
01:03:55,320 --> 01:03:59,440
Speaker 2: a shirt in the past match? Okay? Yeah, just like

1135
01:03:59,480 --> 01:04:02,000
Speaker 2: an outfit. Okay, So we had some outfits like that.

1136
01:04:02,560 --> 01:04:05,360
Speaker 2: So what we did between shows we would take the

1137
01:04:05,560 --> 01:04:09,000
Speaker 2: outfits off and hang them up, you know in the

1138
01:04:09,000 --> 01:04:11,520
Speaker 2: balcons rooms, we hang them up on the pipes. Yeah,

1139
01:04:11,760 --> 01:04:17,880
Speaker 2: let them drove because yeah, the sweating a that iron, Yes,

1140
01:04:18,080 --> 01:04:22,920
Speaker 2: sweat smell. Yeah, we couldn't do no better. I always

1141
01:04:22,920 --> 01:04:26,640
Speaker 2: wanted to know that. Okay, So what happened in Apollo?

1142
01:04:26,680 --> 01:04:28,680
Speaker 2: You know you got hecklers and all that stuff like that.

1143
01:04:28,800 --> 01:04:32,520
Speaker 2: So I'm the hip man, So I go out there

1144
01:04:32,560 --> 01:04:37,520
Speaker 2: stor how y'all doing? Didn't nobody say shit, no, there

1145
01:04:37,600 --> 01:04:41,240
Speaker 2: is nothing, he said looking at me, I said, I said,

1146
01:04:41,280 --> 01:04:44,520
Speaker 2: how y'all doing? What's going on? So I said nothing?

1147
01:04:45,240 --> 01:04:47,560
Speaker 2: So a guy that's been there all day says, man,

1148
01:04:47,600 --> 01:04:50,720
Speaker 2: we're gonna be doing great when y'all changed clothes, because

1149
01:04:50,760 --> 01:04:53,080
Speaker 2: they saw us at one o'clock, we had the same

1150
01:04:53,120 --> 01:04:56,160
Speaker 2: outfit on. At four o'clock, we still had the same

1151
01:04:56,200 --> 01:04:59,439
Speaker 2: outfit on. At seven o'clock, we still had the same

1152
01:04:59,480 --> 01:05:02,640
Speaker 2: outfit on. But we didn't have nothing to change in too.

1153
01:05:02,960 --> 01:05:04,480
Speaker 2: We just had that one outfit.

1154
01:05:04,960 --> 01:05:09,360
Speaker 1: Uh no, okay, when did you finally get a second outfit?

1155
01:05:09,560 --> 01:05:12,720
Speaker 2: Were you? Least not? While we were at the Apollo Oldest.

1156
01:05:12,760 --> 01:05:16,000
Speaker 2: I guess Oldis probably felt sorry for us. So because

1157
01:05:16,160 --> 01:05:18,840
Speaker 2: after we played the Apollo. We took a little break

1158
01:05:18,840 --> 01:05:20,680
Speaker 2: and then we went on tour with Oldest. We did

1159
01:05:20,800 --> 01:05:24,080
Speaker 2: like a package show where we went all over the

1160
01:05:24,320 --> 01:05:26,600
Speaker 2: you know, all over the country. You know, a bus

1161
01:05:26,640 --> 01:05:29,120
Speaker 2: too was on the not a customized bus. So I

1162
01:05:29,160 --> 01:05:34,400
Speaker 2: got you everybody on the bus, got all the artists

1163
01:05:34,440 --> 01:05:36,120
Speaker 2: on the bus. Oh this wasn't on the bus with

1164
01:05:36,160 --> 01:05:38,360
Speaker 2: all the rest of us. What was it like for

1165
01:05:38,480 --> 01:05:39,040
Speaker 2: you to.

1166
01:05:40,480 --> 01:05:44,760
Speaker 1: See America at that time period and the regionalism of

1167
01:05:44,840 --> 01:05:45,120
Speaker 1: it all?

1168
01:05:46,120 --> 01:05:49,320
Speaker 2: I can remember fast forwarding we were playing doing something

1169
01:05:49,360 --> 01:05:53,360
Speaker 2: with Isaac Cay's in Birmingham, Alabama. Uh, the only hotel

1170
01:05:53,440 --> 01:05:57,200
Speaker 2: that you could stay at in Birmingham was a hotel

1171
01:05:57,280 --> 01:06:01,920
Speaker 2: called a g Gaston Hotel. Okay, it was black owned.

1172
01:06:02,000 --> 01:06:05,000
Speaker 2: It was like a motel, so you know, everybody it

1173
01:06:05,080 --> 01:06:08,400
Speaker 2: was like in Memphis, like the Lorraine that was one

1174
01:06:08,440 --> 01:06:12,160
Speaker 2: of the few hotels that blacks could stay at. I mean,

1175
01:06:12,200 --> 01:06:14,960
Speaker 2: he couldn't stand the peabody of nowhere like that, you know.

1176
01:06:15,720 --> 01:06:18,600
Speaker 2: So it just traveling around, I mean, you know, just

1177
01:06:20,040 --> 01:06:23,560
Speaker 2: we just saw how racist things were, especially in the South.

1178
01:06:23,600 --> 01:06:26,920
Speaker 2: It wasn't it wasn't as bad as we came up north.

1179
01:06:27,000 --> 01:06:30,720
Speaker 2: As she came like DC Philly all up thrown down

1180
01:06:30,760 --> 01:06:33,080
Speaker 2: the East coast, you know, it wasn't as bad, but

1181
01:06:33,160 --> 01:06:35,040
Speaker 2: down south it was. It was horrible.

1182
01:06:36,080 --> 01:06:40,000
Speaker 1: As far as Otis Is concerned, are you his stage

1183
01:06:40,040 --> 01:06:42,360
Speaker 1: band only or were you also going to be his

1184
01:06:42,440 --> 01:06:43,640
Speaker 1: studio band as well?

1185
01:06:43,920 --> 01:06:46,480
Speaker 2: No, we didn't. We didn't play on anything in the

1186
01:06:46,520 --> 01:06:50,680
Speaker 2: studio with Otis. We probably would have later on because

1187
01:06:51,560 --> 01:06:55,880
Speaker 2: Otis we played a After we did this tour with Otis,

1188
01:06:56,360 --> 01:06:59,760
Speaker 2: he took another stand in San Francisco at a club

1189
01:07:00,160 --> 01:07:05,720
Speaker 2: the Basin Street West, gotcha on Broadway in down in

1190
01:07:05,880 --> 01:07:10,960
Speaker 2: downtown San Francisco. And it was a ten day stint

1191
01:07:11,160 --> 01:07:16,440
Speaker 2: and we were standing in downtown San Francisco, and he

1192
01:07:16,560 --> 01:07:20,160
Speaker 2: was stayed. He stayed out in Marine County out of

1193
01:07:20,400 --> 01:07:23,360
Speaker 2: uh somebody had rented him a houseboat, so he stayed

1194
01:07:23,400 --> 01:07:28,000
Speaker 2: on the houseboat. So oldest, I don't know, even though

1195
01:07:28,040 --> 01:07:32,600
Speaker 2: I was younger, you know, we connected. So he calls

1196
01:07:32,640 --> 01:07:36,160
Speaker 2: me at the hotel and said, man, I want you

1197
01:07:36,200 --> 01:07:38,520
Speaker 2: to get out here now, man, you I'm in downtown

1198
01:07:38,560 --> 01:07:41,280
Speaker 2: San Francisco. He wanted me to come to Salcolito, which

1199
01:07:41,320 --> 01:07:43,480
Speaker 2: is you know you have to go across the Golden

1200
01:07:43,480 --> 01:07:46,600
Speaker 2: gate Bridge. Right. This is about forty five minute drive

1201
01:07:46,800 --> 01:07:50,840
Speaker 2: familiar with him in those days. A fifty five dollar

1202
01:07:51,000 --> 01:07:56,560
Speaker 2: cab ride gotcha even back then. So I said, man, Man,

1203
01:07:56,560 --> 01:07:58,400
Speaker 2: I ain't got no money to come out there. He said, look,

1204
01:07:58,920 --> 01:08:01,320
Speaker 2: get in a cab and when the cav get here,

1205
01:08:01,400 --> 01:08:04,720
Speaker 2: I come out and pay for it. So I go

1206
01:08:04,800 --> 01:08:07,480
Speaker 2: out to the house boat. He's sitting in the houseboat.

1207
01:08:07,920 --> 01:08:10,520
Speaker 2: It was his guitar, got a kpo on it. You

1208
01:08:10,800 --> 01:08:12,320
Speaker 2: just played it with the cape on it, so you know,

1209
01:08:12,800 --> 01:08:18,360
Speaker 2: straw of the guitar. And he's looking over into San Francisco.

1210
01:08:19,280 --> 01:08:24,040
Speaker 2: He's working on sitting on the doct La Bay, and

1211
01:08:24,080 --> 01:08:27,719
Speaker 2: he said, what you think. I said, Man, I don't know, shit,

1212
01:08:27,920 --> 01:08:30,880
Speaker 2: I don't know. He said, man, come on, man, just

1213
01:08:32,160 --> 01:08:34,880
Speaker 2: tell me. Even I said, I don't know what it is.

1214
01:08:35,080 --> 01:08:37,960
Speaker 2: But that's what ended up being sitting on the Doctor

1215
01:08:38,000 --> 01:08:38,280
Speaker 2: La Bay.

1216
01:08:50,840 --> 01:08:53,920
Speaker 1: Can you talk about one of the most pivotal shows,

1217
01:08:54,560 --> 01:08:58,160
Speaker 1: one of the most important shows for him, probably historically speaking,

1218
01:08:58,200 --> 01:09:02,720
Speaker 1: one of the most pivotal shows and post modern rock

1219
01:09:02,840 --> 01:09:09,280
Speaker 1: history is doing the Monterey Pop Festival show. I believe

1220
01:09:09,320 --> 01:09:12,200
Speaker 1: this is the same show in which Who and Hendrix

1221
01:09:12,240 --> 01:09:15,599
Speaker 1: is where Hendrick says his guitarfire and all that, But

1222
01:09:15,880 --> 01:09:21,240
Speaker 1: I know that he made such an impression on that audience.

1223
01:09:21,520 --> 01:09:25,000
Speaker 1: And am I to assume that was like really the

1224
01:09:25,040 --> 01:09:30,639
Speaker 1: first time in which hippies or non black audiences got

1225
01:09:30,640 --> 01:09:32,639
Speaker 1: their taste of like Otis Redding live.

1226
01:09:34,439 --> 01:09:36,800
Speaker 2: It was a little before then. They had before they

1227
01:09:37,000 --> 01:09:39,640
Speaker 2: did the Moneray thing, they had gone to Europe. I

1228
01:09:39,760 --> 01:09:43,360
Speaker 2: got you and you guys travel with him to Europe? No, No,

1229
01:09:43,439 --> 01:09:46,600
Speaker 2: this was this was them. Okay, got you Monterey. We

1230
01:09:46,600 --> 01:09:49,320
Speaker 2: didn't do any of that. They still was using got You.

1231
01:09:49,840 --> 01:09:51,760
Speaker 2: But you know, that was one of those guys that

1232
01:09:51,880 --> 01:09:55,120
Speaker 2: was always around. So I ended up being kind of

1233
01:09:55,160 --> 01:09:58,519
Speaker 2: like a gopher. Okay, go get this, go get that,

1234
01:09:58,600 --> 01:10:01,360
Speaker 2: you know. So I traveled around you. So I got chests.

1235
01:10:01,800 --> 01:10:04,479
Speaker 2: I didn't go to Mona Ray, but I went. He

1236
01:10:04,520 --> 01:10:07,000
Speaker 2: did something at the whiskey of Go Go down in

1237
01:10:07,200 --> 01:10:09,400
Speaker 2: La so I watched it. I went there with him.

1238
01:10:09,439 --> 01:10:11,839
Speaker 2: I believe he recorded that show live. Yeah, he recorded

1239
01:10:11,840 --> 01:10:14,479
Speaker 2: that show live and live album and all that. You know,

1240
01:10:14,560 --> 01:10:16,639
Speaker 2: he kind of kind of like took me under his wing,

1241
01:10:17,120 --> 01:10:20,000
Speaker 2: I mean, because you know, he was always confided me

1242
01:10:20,320 --> 01:10:22,720
Speaker 2: and I didn't. I who am I to confide in?

1243
01:10:22,880 --> 01:10:25,160
Speaker 2: I mean, you know, he just wanted to talk to somebody,

1244
01:10:25,400 --> 01:10:29,760
Speaker 2: I mean, very just brilliant, up beyond his years. His

1245
01:10:29,920 --> 01:10:32,920
Speaker 2: thing was, why the hell would you create a song

1246
01:10:34,280 --> 01:10:36,760
Speaker 2: and give it, give the ownership of that song to

1247
01:10:36,800 --> 01:10:39,760
Speaker 2: a record company. They didn't have shit to do with

1248
01:10:39,800 --> 01:10:42,960
Speaker 2: the song. Why would you give a song to them?

1249
01:10:43,400 --> 01:10:46,240
Speaker 2: We didn't know no better. The first song that we recorded,

1250
01:10:46,280 --> 01:10:49,439
Speaker 2: which was soul Finger, we didn't have none of the

1251
01:10:49,560 --> 01:10:51,479
Speaker 2: we didn't know none of the publishers, so we just

1252
01:10:51,520 --> 01:10:57,160
Speaker 2: got writers on that song. Unbeknownst to us, that song

1253
01:10:57,280 --> 01:11:01,280
Speaker 2: was recorded in nineteen sixty seven. That song is fifty

1254
01:11:01,320 --> 01:11:06,160
Speaker 2: eight years old. Our catalog is three hundred and fifty songs.

1255
01:11:07,080 --> 01:11:11,400
Speaker 2: There's been no song in our catalog to beat soul

1256
01:11:11,479 --> 01:11:14,040
Speaker 2: Finger out of the three hundred and fifth I'm talking

1257
01:11:14,040 --> 01:11:18,320
Speaker 2: about hitting notice, hitting all of that. Soul Finger is

1258
01:11:18,360 --> 01:11:21,400
Speaker 2: the crown jewels, just the money making it to make

1259
01:11:21,479 --> 01:11:26,719
Speaker 2: more money than any song at one song, just publishing, writers, everything.

1260
01:11:26,760 --> 01:11:30,200
Speaker 2: It makes on an average of about even now, about

1261
01:11:31,240 --> 01:11:34,599
Speaker 2: sixty grand a year. So if we ain't on the publishing,

1262
01:11:35,800 --> 01:11:37,640
Speaker 2: we would be getting you know, we'd be splitting up

1263
01:11:37,640 --> 01:11:40,960
Speaker 2: sixty grand. But since we didn't, we're getting thirty grand

1264
01:11:41,000 --> 01:11:44,640
Speaker 2: and splitting thirty grand five ways, got you, got you?

1265
01:11:44,640 --> 01:11:48,000
Speaker 1: You know, we didn't know even to this day when

1266
01:11:48,040 --> 01:11:51,280
Speaker 1: December tenth comes up, do you feel the events of

1267
01:11:51,320 --> 01:11:52,080
Speaker 1: that day at all?

1268
01:11:53,280 --> 01:11:56,800
Speaker 2: No question. I don't know if you saw what I

1269
01:11:56,840 --> 01:12:00,240
Speaker 2: did this December tenth, No, I think I didn't. I've

1270
01:12:00,280 --> 01:12:02,719
Speaker 2: sent it to you, okay, And I mean I always

1271
01:12:03,120 --> 01:12:06,519
Speaker 2: pay homage to those guys because we had so much

1272
01:12:06,560 --> 01:12:09,400
Speaker 2: fun and you know, learned a lot.

1273
01:12:09,600 --> 01:12:12,920
Speaker 1: The whole land he walked me through, like December ninth,

1274
01:12:13,000 --> 01:12:15,160
Speaker 1: like the day before, just whatever that time period was.

1275
01:12:15,240 --> 01:12:18,320
Speaker 2: Like December the ninth, we had a show in Nashville, Tennessee,

1276
01:12:18,320 --> 01:12:22,840
Speaker 2: at Vanderbilt University. No, this was December the eighth. Vanderbilt

1277
01:12:22,880 --> 01:12:26,240
Speaker 2: was like the Harbor of the South. We had to

1278
01:12:26,320 --> 01:12:31,200
Speaker 2: show barcades and oldis reading at Vanderbilt University. So we

1279
01:12:31,200 --> 01:12:34,200
Speaker 2: were supposed to We played Nashville. Then we supposed to

1280
01:12:34,240 --> 01:12:39,559
Speaker 2: play Cleveland, Ohio December the ninth. So rather than spend

1281
01:12:39,600 --> 01:12:42,679
Speaker 2: the night in Nashville, because he had his own plane,

1282
01:12:43,200 --> 01:12:47,720
Speaker 2: Hey man, the o Jays and the Temptations in Cleveland.

1283
01:12:48,680 --> 01:12:50,600
Speaker 2: When we get through it our show, let's take the

1284
01:12:50,640 --> 01:12:53,320
Speaker 2: plane and fly to Cleveland and catch their last show

1285
01:12:53,320 --> 01:12:55,760
Speaker 2: because they was doing two shows or early show in

1286
01:12:55,800 --> 01:12:58,559
Speaker 2: the late show. So we left and went to the

1287
01:12:58,600 --> 01:13:00,439
Speaker 2: place which we were going to be playing there Deceb

1288
01:13:00,439 --> 01:13:02,680
Speaker 2: of the ninth. The Temptations of Ojas were there ow

1289
01:13:02,760 --> 01:13:07,600
Speaker 2: de some of the eighth OJ's were opening act, and

1290
01:13:07,640 --> 01:13:10,080
Speaker 2: I mean the Temptations were on fire at that point

1291
01:13:11,080 --> 01:13:14,080
Speaker 2: and the Ojs, this was back when they had five members.

1292
01:13:15,160 --> 01:13:20,400
Speaker 2: The Ojays turned it out. They had one song. They

1293
01:13:20,400 --> 01:13:24,600
Speaker 2: had a song called I'll be Sweeter Tomorrow than I

1294
01:13:24,840 --> 01:13:29,400
Speaker 2: Was yesterday. When they got through doing that song, I mean,

1295
01:13:29,400 --> 01:13:32,639
Speaker 2: people just stood up. I mean kind of like about

1296
01:13:32,640 --> 01:13:36,080
Speaker 2: a ten minute standing ovation. The Temps didn't want to

1297
01:13:36,080 --> 01:13:37,800
Speaker 2: come out. Now the Temps, man, you they had all

1298
01:13:37,800 --> 01:13:41,240
Speaker 2: these hits, and you know the Temps, they were there, tall,

1299
01:13:41,760 --> 01:13:44,000
Speaker 2: well dressed. They were the shit.

1300
01:13:44,080 --> 01:13:46,479
Speaker 1: Addie live hert don't play fair. Yeah, I've seen him

1301
01:13:46,520 --> 01:13:48,479
Speaker 1: many times in concert. He does not play fair.

1302
01:13:49,920 --> 01:13:52,720
Speaker 2: They came out there and they ripped it right. So,

1303
01:13:53,160 --> 01:13:54,560
Speaker 2: you know, being around a lot of that kind of

1304
01:13:54,600 --> 01:13:57,800
Speaker 2: stuff like that, you know, we came to an era

1305
01:13:57,880 --> 01:13:59,600
Speaker 2: where we're gonna I don't know if you know an

1306
01:13:59,600 --> 01:14:02,000
Speaker 2: think about it. You ever heard of people said we're

1307
01:14:02,000 --> 01:14:04,840
Speaker 2: gonna We're gonna cut your head. Yeah, ah, you know

1308
01:14:04,920 --> 01:14:07,479
Speaker 2: our head cutting. I mean, I'm in a band, you're

1309
01:14:07,520 --> 01:14:09,840
Speaker 2: the ban I'm in the band. So we had we

1310
01:14:09,960 --> 01:14:12,400
Speaker 2: know it's time to We did some battles with Cameo.

1311
01:14:12,880 --> 01:14:16,240
Speaker 2: That was one of our main battle groups. But anyway,

1312
01:14:16,880 --> 01:14:19,719
Speaker 2: I'm gonna get to that. They kicked and you said

1313
01:14:19,720 --> 01:14:22,559
Speaker 2: the OJ's kicked the Thames Ass. The same one kicked

1314
01:14:22,600 --> 01:14:27,200
Speaker 2: the ass smoked them and they only had one hit.

1315
01:14:27,560 --> 01:14:30,400
Speaker 2: Tims had multiple hits. That's all it takes. This is

1316
01:14:30,439 --> 01:14:33,960
Speaker 2: when David Ruffin was in the group. Got you David Ruffin,

1317
01:14:34,120 --> 01:14:39,360
Speaker 2: Eddie Kendricks, Paul Williams, Otis Williams, and who am I missing?

1318
01:14:39,439 --> 01:14:42,679
Speaker 2: Melvin Melvin Melvin Frankly, Yes, oh I cannot forget.

1319
01:14:42,760 --> 01:14:46,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, you were saying that Otis in the Barcades went

1320
01:14:46,960 --> 01:14:50,040
Speaker 1: to Ohio to go see the Temps and the OJ's.

1321
01:14:51,560 --> 01:14:54,360
Speaker 1: But how does that lead to December tenth of sixty

1322
01:14:54,400 --> 01:14:55,759
Speaker 1: seven when the crash happens.

1323
01:14:55,840 --> 01:14:58,920
Speaker 2: Well, it was okay. They played on December the eighth,

1324
01:14:59,040 --> 01:15:01,439
Speaker 2: We played on the ninth the Barcades and Otis we

1325
01:15:01,479 --> 01:15:03,800
Speaker 2: played at the same club. That was the last That

1326
01:15:03,920 --> 01:15:06,960
Speaker 2: was the last time that. Man, it was one hell

1327
01:15:06,960 --> 01:15:08,920
Speaker 2: of a show because in the daytime, we did a

1328
01:15:08,960 --> 01:15:13,920
Speaker 2: TV show called Upbeat. Okay, you you probably may have

1329
01:15:13,920 --> 01:15:17,320
Speaker 2: seen that. Class said, yeah, I mean that was live.

1330
01:15:18,880 --> 01:15:21,160
Speaker 2: I mean it wasn't about two mics at that thing.

1331
01:15:21,560 --> 01:15:24,280
Speaker 2: Got you. We recorded that got you. That was the

1332
01:15:24,320 --> 01:15:28,519
Speaker 2: last time we did it. And normally the morning of

1333
01:15:28,560 --> 01:15:31,120
Speaker 2: the tenth normally I would be on the private plane

1334
01:15:31,280 --> 01:15:34,880
Speaker 2: with them, but the plane could only carry a certain

1335
01:15:34,920 --> 01:15:37,840
Speaker 2: amount of people, and two people always had to fly commercial.

1336
01:15:38,680 --> 01:15:40,680
Speaker 2: This particular day I happened to just be one of

1337
01:15:40,680 --> 01:15:44,080
Speaker 2: the people to fly commercial. How is that decision made? Man?

1338
01:15:44,479 --> 01:15:46,639
Speaker 2: Because what I said, I said, you know, we always

1339
01:15:46,640 --> 01:15:49,040
Speaker 2: would have you know, we didn't have you know, they

1340
01:15:50,040 --> 01:15:54,320
Speaker 2: promoted and you know rich you know, car service and

1341
01:15:54,360 --> 01:15:58,599
Speaker 2: no limos like that. We just got two vans, uh

1342
01:15:58,600 --> 01:16:01,000
Speaker 2: two station wide whatever they had at the rental car place,

1343
01:16:01,640 --> 01:16:04,000
Speaker 2: and so somebody had to turn the rental vehicles in.

1344
01:16:04,360 --> 01:16:07,160
Speaker 2: So me and the other guy we opted to turn

1345
01:16:07,200 --> 01:16:10,920
Speaker 2: the renal vehicle. A guy by the name of Carl Sims. Okay,

1346
01:16:11,040 --> 01:16:13,160
Speaker 2: he was kind of like the singer. He was like

1347
01:16:13,240 --> 01:16:15,679
Speaker 2: this guy, we come on to do one number before

1348
01:16:15,720 --> 01:16:17,920
Speaker 2: we come on. He come on to do one number?

1349
01:16:17,920 --> 01:16:19,760
Speaker 2: Did we come on to do maybe three numbers? Then

1350
01:16:19,800 --> 01:16:23,080
Speaker 2: we bring o this song got you. So we turned

1351
01:16:23,120 --> 01:16:26,640
Speaker 2: the rental vehicles in and we dropped them off at

1352
01:16:26,640 --> 01:16:30,000
Speaker 2: the at the hangar what a private plane was. Then

1353
01:16:30,000 --> 01:16:32,320
Speaker 2: we turned the rental vehicle and the then we catch

1354
01:16:32,720 --> 01:16:35,920
Speaker 2: take a commercial flight to the next show. Where is

1355
01:16:35,960 --> 01:16:39,280
Speaker 2: the next show? It's supposed to be in Madison, Wisconsin,

1356
01:16:41,400 --> 01:16:48,759
Speaker 2: at the University of Wisconsin Stubblefield. So the pilot said, hey, man,

1357
01:16:49,880 --> 01:16:53,000
Speaker 2: rether Than, y'all flying all the way to Madison. Why

1358
01:16:53,000 --> 01:16:57,439
Speaker 2: don't y'all fly from Cleveland to Milwaukee. I dropped them

1359
01:16:57,479 --> 01:17:01,320
Speaker 2: off in Madison and then come back across Lake Michigan

1360
01:17:01,320 --> 01:17:04,640
Speaker 2: to pick y'all up and then bring y'all back to Madison.

1361
01:17:05,600 --> 01:17:09,519
Speaker 2: So we flew to Milwaukee. So we sat and waiting

1362
01:17:10,479 --> 01:17:13,200
Speaker 2: on them to come, and so it started getting late.

1363
01:17:13,280 --> 01:17:17,040
Speaker 2: It started getting around four or five o'clock. No plane.

1364
01:17:17,080 --> 01:17:18,960
Speaker 2: And then you know, back in those days, you know,

1365
01:17:19,000 --> 01:17:21,960
Speaker 2: you didn't have technology, like, yeah, you need those cell phones,

1366
01:17:22,200 --> 01:17:25,040
Speaker 2: a payphone. You had to go then you call home,

1367
01:17:25,080 --> 01:17:27,719
Speaker 2: you know, you call and collect or something like something

1368
01:17:27,760 --> 01:17:31,720
Speaker 2: like that. So we start just calling and then we

1369
01:17:31,840 --> 01:17:37,240
Speaker 2: called around where's the plane? Nobody could tell us any information,

1370
01:17:37,760 --> 01:17:40,360
Speaker 2: and so finally we were at we were already at

1371
01:17:40,400 --> 01:17:42,440
Speaker 2: the airport in Milwaukee, so we called.

1372
01:17:42,600 --> 01:17:46,840
Speaker 1: Can I is the private air hangar aware that they're

1373
01:17:46,880 --> 01:17:49,200
Speaker 1: supposed to receive a plane to come in?

1374
01:17:49,400 --> 01:17:52,920
Speaker 2: Like are they in the Madison Yes? Yeah, okay, And

1375
01:17:52,960 --> 01:17:55,800
Speaker 2: so even for all the hours that are going by,

1376
01:17:55,960 --> 01:17:59,960
Speaker 2: they're unaware. They're unaware. I mean, you know, the communications

1377
01:18:00,160 --> 01:18:03,040
Speaker 2: system was not what it is now. You know, everything

1378
01:18:03,120 --> 01:18:06,680
Speaker 2: is right now, got you, yeah, in real time right,

1379
01:18:07,160 --> 01:18:09,600
Speaker 2: But it wasn't like that then. So ours went to

1380
01:18:09,840 --> 01:18:12,519
Speaker 2: so we kept calling, kept calling, and they said, well,

1381
01:18:13,120 --> 01:18:16,000
Speaker 2: we lost the plane on the radars. Whereas they still

1382
01:18:16,000 --> 01:18:19,080
Speaker 2: didn't know anything. So maybe an hour so late, they said,

1383
01:18:19,080 --> 01:18:22,840
Speaker 2: well we lost the plane on the radar. We think

1384
01:18:22,880 --> 01:18:27,120
Speaker 2: the plane went down. And that's all they could tell us.

1385
01:18:27,120 --> 01:18:29,360
Speaker 2: They couldn't tell us nothing else was any all of

1386
01:18:29,400 --> 01:18:32,680
Speaker 2: a way to tell you, like just all casual, just

1387
01:18:32,760 --> 01:18:38,200
Speaker 2: like that. So we in Milwaukee. So later on about

1388
01:18:38,200 --> 01:18:43,519
Speaker 2: another hour passed by, and so we called and they said, well,

1389
01:18:44,040 --> 01:18:47,479
Speaker 2: the authorities coming from Madison back to Milwaukee to pick

1390
01:18:47,560 --> 01:18:50,760
Speaker 2: y'all up. So they came to Milwaukee, picked us up

1391
01:18:50,800 --> 01:18:52,400
Speaker 2: and drove us back to Madison.

1392
01:18:52,640 --> 01:18:55,599
Speaker 1: By then they had known what what are you thinking

1393
01:18:55,600 --> 01:18:56,280
Speaker 1: in that drive?

1394
01:18:56,800 --> 01:18:59,360
Speaker 2: I'm known, I'm not thinking. I don't I don't know

1395
01:18:59,400 --> 01:19:02,160
Speaker 2: what the thing no matter, I'm seventeen years old, so

1396
01:19:02,200 --> 01:19:05,840
Speaker 2: I don't know what to think. Oh God, okay. So

1397
01:19:06,920 --> 01:19:11,360
Speaker 2: we get to Madison. They put us up in the hotel.

1398
01:19:11,560 --> 01:19:16,120
Speaker 2: They said, well, the plane did go down. There were

1399
01:19:16,160 --> 01:19:21,679
Speaker 2: no survivors. The only survivor was a guy they didn't

1400
01:19:21,680 --> 01:19:24,920
Speaker 2: even know, they didn't know what was being called. But

1401
01:19:25,000 --> 01:19:28,840
Speaker 2: he was in the hospital. So I said, well, can

1402
01:19:28,840 --> 01:19:31,479
Speaker 2: you can you take me to the hospital. So I

1403
01:19:31,520 --> 01:19:34,080
Speaker 2: went to the hospital to see him, and he just

1404
01:19:34,120 --> 01:19:36,439
Speaker 2: laying up in the bed. He was like in shock.

1405
01:19:37,960 --> 01:19:41,000
Speaker 2: If you ever seen a person in shock. I mean

1406
01:19:41,040 --> 01:19:43,280
Speaker 2: he was just there with his eyes open, laying back

1407
01:19:43,280 --> 01:19:45,400
Speaker 2: in the bed that Ben put my hand in front of.

1408
01:19:46,520 --> 01:19:49,040
Speaker 2: He couldn't say anything, he couldn't move, couldn't say anything.

1409
01:19:50,240 --> 01:19:54,000
Speaker 2: So it took us back to the hotel and they said, well,

1410
01:19:55,320 --> 01:19:57,920
Speaker 2: since you and the other gentleman y'all lay on the

1411
01:19:57,960 --> 01:20:02,200
Speaker 2: two people here, y'all will have to as we find people,

1412
01:20:03,640 --> 01:20:05,360
Speaker 2: y'all would have to identify the bodies.

1413
01:20:06,200 --> 01:20:08,559
Speaker 1: I always wanted to ask you how you felt about

1414
01:20:09,040 --> 01:20:12,360
Speaker 1: Jet Magazine's treatment of this moment. But because that's how

1415
01:20:12,400 --> 01:20:16,000
Speaker 1: I learned this story and who you were via my

1416
01:20:16,120 --> 01:20:17,680
Speaker 1: aunt had that Jet magazine.

1417
01:20:18,240 --> 01:20:21,800
Speaker 2: The Jet Magazine was notorious. I mean, you know they

1418
01:20:21,840 --> 01:20:23,920
Speaker 2: did the mantel and yeah, that much. I do know

1419
01:20:24,000 --> 01:20:28,680
Speaker 2: all that stuff. Yeah. So by this time later on,

1420
01:20:29,320 --> 01:20:32,439
Speaker 2: this was like on a Sunday. Of course, they had

1421
01:20:32,479 --> 01:20:38,919
Speaker 2: notified Zelma, Otis's wife, and she had flown to Madison.

1422
01:20:39,880 --> 01:20:42,599
Speaker 2: They put us all in the same hotel. So when

1423
01:20:42,680 --> 01:20:45,160
Speaker 2: Zelma got to the hotel, I went down to her room,

1424
01:20:45,200 --> 01:20:47,679
Speaker 2: and you know, we consoled each other a little bit.

1425
01:20:48,360 --> 01:20:50,960
Speaker 2: I mean, and it's weird because with much crime, I mean,

1426
01:20:51,600 --> 01:20:54,439
Speaker 2: at that point we all still was in shock. We

1427
01:20:54,520 --> 01:20:57,880
Speaker 2: weren't crying or anything like that. But I remember Zelma

1428
01:20:57,960 --> 01:21:02,439
Speaker 2: telling me, she said, James, whenever they found my husband,

1429
01:21:03,040 --> 01:21:06,120
Speaker 2: would you be willing to identify him? And I said,

1430
01:21:06,280 --> 01:21:08,920
Speaker 2: and I'm seventeen years old, right, so I had to

1431
01:21:08,920 --> 01:21:11,439
Speaker 2: identified the rest of the people too, So I said,

1432
01:21:11,479 --> 01:21:14,800
Speaker 2: of course. It was like the second or third day

1433
01:21:14,840 --> 01:21:19,439
Speaker 2: before they found Otis, And when they found him, it

1434
01:21:19,560 --> 01:21:22,439
Speaker 2: had him on a dolly. He still was strapped into

1435
01:21:22,560 --> 01:21:26,160
Speaker 2: his step because he was in the co palot seat,

1436
01:21:26,200 --> 01:21:29,439
Speaker 2: sitting in the co pola seat because his aircraft didn't

1437
01:21:29,520 --> 01:21:32,000
Speaker 2: require you to have a pallet and a copalot, just

1438
01:21:32,040 --> 01:21:35,719
Speaker 2: a palette. So we would all take turns of sitting

1439
01:21:35,720 --> 01:21:39,880
Speaker 2: in the co palot seat when we flying, because you know,

1440
01:21:40,840 --> 01:21:43,320
Speaker 2: you're thinking you the copalat of it, all right, you know,

1441
01:21:44,000 --> 01:21:46,200
Speaker 2: so ODIs was sitting in the co poala seat, and

1442
01:21:46,280 --> 01:21:49,120
Speaker 2: so when they found him, he was still in the

1443
01:21:49,160 --> 01:21:50,640
Speaker 2: co pala seat.

1444
01:21:51,040 --> 01:21:55,439
Speaker 1: For our people listening right now, as I mentioned before,

1445
01:21:55,840 --> 01:21:59,120
Speaker 1: kind of what brought you know, if you go to

1446
01:21:59,240 --> 01:22:02,200
Speaker 1: any beauty shop, for barbershop or whatever, you know, an

1447
01:22:02,240 --> 01:22:05,320
Speaker 1: older parents' house, like there's jet and ebony or like

1448
01:22:05,680 --> 01:22:11,240
Speaker 1: staples in any household, any barbershop, any black gathering, non church.

1449
01:22:12,040 --> 01:22:14,839
Speaker 1: Of course, they really made their mark because I Matil's

1450
01:22:14,880 --> 01:22:20,240
Speaker 1: mother gave them permission to show what his face looked

1451
01:22:20,280 --> 01:22:21,920
Speaker 1: like after they murdered him, and that you know, of

1452
01:22:21,960 --> 01:22:23,400
Speaker 1: course started the civil rights period.

1453
01:22:24,800 --> 01:22:28,480
Speaker 2: My aunt, who loved.

1454
01:22:28,120 --> 01:22:33,640
Speaker 1: Otis Redding, kept the Jet magazine, and of course I

1455
01:22:33,640 --> 01:22:40,559
Speaker 1: guess photographers were on the scene and they showed his body,

1456
01:22:41,040 --> 01:22:46,000
Speaker 1: and I guess the because it was December and the

1457
01:22:46,040 --> 01:22:46,960
Speaker 1: water was freezing.

1458
01:22:47,600 --> 01:22:49,880
Speaker 2: He was frozen. Yeah, he was frozen, but it.

1459
01:22:49,880 --> 01:22:52,080
Speaker 1: Was like the look on his face was almost like

1460
01:22:52,160 --> 01:22:55,680
Speaker 1: it was frozen in time of That horned me like

1461
01:22:55,880 --> 01:23:00,599
Speaker 1: no other photo ever, and I always wanted to know,

1462
01:23:01,160 --> 01:23:03,840
Speaker 1: like not did you guys think that was in poor

1463
01:23:03,920 --> 01:23:07,280
Speaker 1: taste or whatever, like or even considering what his widow

1464
01:23:07,280 --> 01:23:10,559
Speaker 1: would think or that sort of thing. But like I

1465
01:23:10,680 --> 01:23:14,080
Speaker 1: remember that photo first, and then going through my father's

1466
01:23:14,080 --> 01:23:19,360
Speaker 1: records to learn about Otis Redding, and then you know again,

1467
01:23:19,400 --> 01:23:23,639
Speaker 1: I give up in three thousand album Household. So when

1468
01:23:24,760 --> 01:23:28,639
Speaker 1: I guess my father purchased to How to Stop.

1469
01:23:29,880 --> 01:23:30,679
Speaker 2: Then my mom.

1470
01:23:30,560 --> 01:23:34,439
Speaker 1: Explained to me that this is the new version of

1471
01:23:34,479 --> 01:23:37,599
Speaker 1: the band from Aunt Barber's. Like she had to explain

1472
01:23:37,680 --> 01:23:39,280
Speaker 1: to me sort of backwards to the story of the

1473
01:23:39,280 --> 01:23:40,519
Speaker 1: barcades and all those things.

1474
01:23:40,520 --> 01:23:45,400
Speaker 2: Are you all about that? Yeah? Man, wow, I'm a

1475
01:23:47,400 --> 01:23:48,439
Speaker 2: I was just five at the time.

1476
01:23:48,520 --> 01:23:51,240
Speaker 1: Yes, at five six seven, I probably had the knowledge

1477
01:23:51,280 --> 01:23:53,800
Speaker 1: of a twenty year old, Like that's just who my

1478
01:23:53,800 --> 01:23:57,120
Speaker 1: my family was. Okay, So you know, of course, today,

1479
01:23:57,760 --> 01:24:04,080
Speaker 1: trauma experiences are nothing new for black creatives, especially like

1480
01:24:04,280 --> 01:24:09,599
Speaker 1: music is usually our therapy o, our cathartic release. Did

1481
01:24:09,640 --> 01:24:13,800
Speaker 1: you allow yourself to mentally deal with that sort of

1482
01:24:13,800 --> 01:24:16,240
Speaker 1: trauma or that loss, like is it over?

1483
01:24:16,560 --> 01:24:20,360
Speaker 2: Is it? What do you do? No, everything happened so fast.

1484
01:24:20,720 --> 01:24:23,479
Speaker 2: That thing didn't really hit me the way it it

1485
01:24:23,600 --> 01:24:26,160
Speaker 2: hit being called it hit me one way, it hit

1486
01:24:26,280 --> 01:24:28,120
Speaker 2: him a whole nother way. How did it hit you?

1487
01:24:28,840 --> 01:24:31,240
Speaker 2: I mean I was just numb the whole time about it.

1488
01:24:31,360 --> 01:24:35,839
Speaker 2: And what happened is I mean before all of the films,

1489
01:24:36,439 --> 01:24:42,840
Speaker 2: Jim stood and Alball called me to Stacks and said, James,

1490
01:24:43,320 --> 01:24:46,640
Speaker 2: I mean, I know this is a difficult time, but

1491
01:24:47,080 --> 01:24:49,160
Speaker 2: they said these words. They said, we want to know

1492
01:24:49,600 --> 01:24:53,080
Speaker 2: if you want to if you want to continue. I

1493
01:24:53,360 --> 01:24:57,560
Speaker 2: didn't even think about it. I said yes, being called

1494
01:24:57,680 --> 01:24:59,920
Speaker 2: he didn't want to do anything he did. He said, Jame,

1495
01:25:00,120 --> 01:25:01,400
Speaker 2: you got it. I did.

1496
01:25:01,560 --> 01:25:03,840
Speaker 1: Can you tell me what his version of being in

1497
01:25:03,840 --> 01:25:05,360
Speaker 1: that plane and how he escaped.

1498
01:25:06,360 --> 01:25:10,879
Speaker 2: Ben told me that before the plane took off from Cleveland,

1499
01:25:10,920 --> 01:25:13,720
Speaker 2: O how it didn't feel right because she said and said,

1500
01:25:13,720 --> 01:25:15,200
Speaker 2: I don't know this to be true or notough, but

1501
01:25:15,240 --> 01:25:18,639
Speaker 2: he said the battery was lower, the battery they controlled

1502
01:25:18,640 --> 01:25:21,200
Speaker 2: the plane was loading and they had to get a

1503
01:25:21,240 --> 01:25:23,160
Speaker 2: boost off or something like that. I can't measine a

1504
01:25:23,200 --> 01:25:25,240
Speaker 2: plane getting a boost off. But I guess you know,

1505
01:25:25,400 --> 01:25:27,680
Speaker 2: it runs by. You know, I was kind of like

1506
01:25:27,760 --> 01:25:30,840
Speaker 2: if your car breaks down and you do that. Oh okay,

1507
01:25:30,920 --> 01:25:34,360
Speaker 2: he said from him, something was not right up from

1508
01:25:34,360 --> 01:25:38,599
Speaker 2: the beginning. So when the plane started having you know,

1509
01:25:38,960 --> 01:25:41,360
Speaker 2: just you know, he woke up and the plane was

1510
01:25:41,360 --> 01:25:44,639
Speaker 2: having problems. Then the next thing he know, the plane

1511
01:25:44,680 --> 01:25:47,559
Speaker 2: was in a spiral. By this time, people were waking

1512
01:25:47,640 --> 01:25:51,120
Speaker 2: up because everybody was sleep and the plane when the

1513
01:25:51,160 --> 01:25:54,800
Speaker 2: plane impacted when it hit the lake. The plane hit

1514
01:25:54,840 --> 01:25:58,360
Speaker 2: the lake and then it broke in half. So Ben

1515
01:25:58,520 --> 01:26:02,920
Speaker 2: call it happened to be the only person on the plane.

1516
01:26:03,880 --> 01:26:08,680
Speaker 2: They couldn't swim, and he survived. I just only imagine

1517
01:26:09,720 --> 01:26:16,360
Speaker 2: just recollecting everything. Okay, everybody was asleep. You wake up,

1518
01:26:17,280 --> 01:26:21,040
Speaker 2: you still kind of like groggy. You don't know what's happening.

1519
01:26:22,160 --> 01:26:25,679
Speaker 2: But whatever's happening, and it ain't right. Then the next

1520
01:26:25,720 --> 01:26:28,719
Speaker 2: thing you know, the plane is you know, it's happened

1521
01:26:28,760 --> 01:26:32,160
Speaker 2: so massive and it threw everybody out in the water.

1522
01:26:32,800 --> 01:26:35,040
Speaker 2: The people that because you know, probably some people didn't

1523
01:26:35,040 --> 01:26:36,920
Speaker 2: have the seatbelt songs, so the.

1524
01:26:36,880 --> 01:26:40,599
Speaker 1: Weight of the seats, yeah, took them into the box.

1525
01:26:40,680 --> 01:26:45,160
Speaker 1: So Ben was able to dismantle his seatbelt and free himself.

1526
01:26:45,600 --> 01:26:47,600
Speaker 2: He may not even have a seatbelt on. He was

1527
01:26:47,640 --> 01:26:52,200
Speaker 2: just thrown out into the water. And from what I understand,

1528
01:26:52,240 --> 01:26:57,000
Speaker 2: there was a guy out in the lake just I mean,

1529
01:26:57,000 --> 01:27:00,640
Speaker 2: he wouldn't because you know, Madison Westcombe was cold. Is

1530
01:27:00,680 --> 01:27:06,000
Speaker 2: this a nighttime or daytime? Afternoon? Okay? Okay? So the

1531
01:27:06,120 --> 01:27:09,920
Speaker 2: guy that boat at winter so he he got over

1532
01:27:09,960 --> 01:27:13,240
Speaker 2: there with his boat. But Ben was the only person

1533
01:27:13,240 --> 01:27:17,040
Speaker 2: that he saw, because according to Bend, he had seen

1534
01:27:17,120 --> 01:27:20,920
Speaker 2: several people come up out of the lake, you know,

1535
01:27:21,360 --> 01:27:25,599
Speaker 2: trying to say help, you know, and he was already

1536
01:27:25,640 --> 01:27:27,439
Speaker 2: in shock, but he couldn't do anything anyway because he

1537
01:27:27,439 --> 01:27:32,080
Speaker 2: couldn't swell. All he can remember is somebody pulled him

1538
01:27:32,080 --> 01:27:34,640
Speaker 2: and put him in the boat and covered them up

1539
01:27:34,680 --> 01:27:37,320
Speaker 2: with because he was shaking and stuff. Gotcha. It was

1540
01:27:37,439 --> 01:27:42,000
Speaker 2: like it was below freezing that day. Yeah, December.

1541
01:27:42,200 --> 01:27:47,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, when did you even start with the idea of okay,

1542
01:27:47,120 --> 01:27:51,040
Speaker 1: let's rebuild a new band, Like how long did you

1543
01:27:51,200 --> 01:27:53,800
Speaker 1: take off before you was like okay, let's get to it.

1544
01:27:54,439 --> 01:28:00,280
Speaker 2: Okay. This happened in December nineteen sixty seven. By rule

1545
01:28:00,520 --> 01:28:08,160
Speaker 2: of sixty eight, had already reformed a new band. All right, y'all,

1546
01:28:08,200 --> 01:28:09,000
Speaker 2: that's going to do it.

1547
01:28:09,080 --> 01:28:12,720
Speaker 1: For part one of our conversation with James Alexander of

1548
01:28:12,880 --> 01:28:17,880
Speaker 1: the legendary Barcades, Please come back next week or check

1549
01:28:17,920 --> 01:28:20,639
Speaker 1: out podcast feed for part two, and that we're probably

1550
01:28:20,640 --> 01:28:23,320
Speaker 1: getting into the evolution of the Bark sound in the

1551
01:28:23,360 --> 01:28:26,720
Speaker 1: seventies and the eighties, and the making of classics like

1552
01:28:26,760 --> 01:28:29,839
Speaker 1: Holy Ghosts and Too Hot to Stop, the Battle, Stories

1553
01:28:29,840 --> 01:28:32,719
Speaker 1: from the Road, and how James helped bridge the gap

1554
01:28:32,760 --> 01:28:36,919
Speaker 1: into modern hip hop and Memphis. Oh, here's a nugget.

1555
01:28:37,160 --> 01:28:41,000
Speaker 1: Holy Ghosts, my all time favorite Bark song, was recorded

1556
01:28:41,400 --> 01:28:44,560
Speaker 1: years before we got to hear it. He also reveals

1557
01:28:45,120 --> 01:28:47,920
Speaker 1: some credits behind the Barcades, including some of the nineteen

1558
01:28:47,960 --> 01:28:51,960
Speaker 1: seventies classics. As we celebrate Black History Month, this is

1559
01:28:52,080 --> 01:28:56,280
Speaker 1: music history, and yes, black history, and that is American history.

1560
01:28:56,439 --> 01:28:59,280
Speaker 1: Always keep that in mind. We're just getting started, so

1561
01:28:59,400 --> 01:29:03,360
Speaker 1: make sure you're subscribe, rate and review the show, and

1562
01:29:03,439 --> 01:29:07,040
Speaker 1: we'll be back with part two of James Alexander on

1563
01:29:07,560 --> 01:29:09,160
Speaker 1: The Quest Love Show.

1564
01:29:09,520 --> 01:29:09,960
Speaker 2: All right.

1565
01:29:11,000 --> 01:29:13,880
Speaker 1: The Quest Love Show is hosted by me Amir quest

1566
01:29:13,880 --> 01:29:18,519
Speaker 1: Love Thompson. The executive producers are Sean G. Brian Calhoun

1567
01:29:18,920 --> 01:29:25,479
Speaker 1: and Me. Produced by Brittany Benjamin and Jake Pain. Produced

1568
01:29:25,520 --> 01:29:31,479
Speaker 1: for iHeart by Noel Brown, Edited by Alex Convoy. iHeart

1569
01:29:31,560 --> 01:29:36,880
Speaker 1: Video support by Mark Canton, Logos Graphics and animation by

1570
01:29:36,960 --> 01:29:41,280
Speaker 1: Nick Lowe. Additional support by Lance Coleman.

1571
01:29:42,840 --> 01:29:44,240
Speaker 2: Special thanks to Kathy Brown.

1572
01:29:45,760 --> 01:29:50,519
Speaker 1: Special thanks to Sugar Steve Mandel. Please subscribe, rate, review,

1573
01:29:50,640 --> 01:29:52,120
Speaker 1: and share The Quest Love Show.

1574
01:29:52,400 --> 01:29:55,200
Speaker 2: Wherever you stream your podcast, make sure.

1575
01:29:55,080 --> 01:30:01,320
Speaker 1: You follow us on socials that's at q LS. Check

1576
01:30:01,360 --> 01:30:04,679
Speaker 1: out hundreds and hundreds of QLs episodes, including the Quest

1577
01:30:04,720 --> 01:30:07,080
Speaker 1: of Supreme shows and our podcast archives.

1578
01:30:09,520 --> 01:30:12,200
Speaker 2: The Quest Love Show is the production of iHeartRadio.