1 00:00:00,160 --> 00:00:11,000 Speaker 1: Family Secrets is a production of I Heart Radio High 2 00:00:11,039 --> 00:00:15,600 Speaker 1: Family Secrets Listeners. It's Dannie. So I've been thinking, as 3 00:00:15,600 --> 00:00:18,600 Speaker 1: we've been moving through the many powerful conversations I've had 4 00:00:18,640 --> 00:00:21,440 Speaker 1: with my guests during this third season of the podcast, 5 00:00:22,160 --> 00:00:26,000 Speaker 1: the world as we know it has been profoundly changed. 6 00:00:26,560 --> 00:00:29,520 Speaker 1: I mean the whole world as we know it for 7 00:00:29,640 --> 00:00:33,080 Speaker 1: every single one of us. We're sequestered in our homes, 8 00:00:33,440 --> 00:00:37,280 Speaker 1: either with other people or alone, and our lives, our 9 00:00:37,320 --> 00:00:40,959 Speaker 1: plans have ground to a halt. We're left with our 10 00:00:41,000 --> 00:00:44,360 Speaker 1: fears and anxieties about the future and grief for what's 11 00:00:44,360 --> 00:00:47,680 Speaker 1: happening all around us. I want to talk about this, 12 00:00:48,240 --> 00:00:50,919 Speaker 1: about how we move through this period of time with 13 00:00:50,960 --> 00:00:54,760 Speaker 1: as much humanity and caring for ourselves and others as possible, 14 00:00:55,800 --> 00:00:58,160 Speaker 1: and so I invited a guest on for a special 15 00:00:58,160 --> 00:01:02,120 Speaker 1: bonus episode you're about to hear. Stephanie Whittles Wax is 16 00:01:02,120 --> 00:01:06,560 Speaker 1: an actress, activist, author, wife, mom of two little kids, 17 00:01:06,959 --> 00:01:09,360 Speaker 1: and she just happens to host one of my favorite 18 00:01:09,400 --> 00:01:15,080 Speaker 1: podcasts called Last Day. Her book Everything Is Horrible and Wonderful, 19 00:01:15,319 --> 00:01:19,399 Speaker 1: a tragic comic memoir of genius heroine love and loss, 20 00:01:19,920 --> 00:01:23,679 Speaker 1: along with her podcast, were born of tragedy. In two 21 00:01:23,720 --> 00:01:27,959 Speaker 1: thousand and fifteen, her brother, beloved comedian and actor Harris Whittles, 22 00:01:28,280 --> 00:01:32,319 Speaker 1: died of a heroine overdose. Everything in Steph's life changed 23 00:01:32,360 --> 00:01:35,080 Speaker 1: as a result of that terrible loss, and she has 24 00:01:35,120 --> 00:01:39,200 Speaker 1: done the hard, beautiful, soul bearing work of making meaning 25 00:01:39,319 --> 00:01:43,560 Speaker 1: and art out of pain. Since we're all, it's safe 26 00:01:43,600 --> 00:01:46,319 Speaker 1: to say, in some pain right now, I thought a 27 00:01:46,319 --> 00:01:50,200 Speaker 1: conversation with Steph about her story and navigating this time 28 00:01:50,240 --> 00:01:52,760 Speaker 1: we find ourselves in would be a really good thing. 29 00:01:53,480 --> 00:01:55,520 Speaker 1: I know it was for me. I hope it is 30 00:01:55,560 --> 00:02:03,040 Speaker 1: for you too. In one of the episodes, one of 31 00:02:03,040 --> 00:02:06,360 Speaker 1: your later episodes, you UM one of my favorites. Actually, 32 00:02:06,360 --> 00:02:10,200 Speaker 1: you have this very powerful conversation with Dr Gabor Matte, 33 00:02:11,080 --> 00:02:15,200 Speaker 1: and Dr Matte, who is a world expert on trauma, 34 00:02:16,160 --> 00:02:22,799 Speaker 1: talks about trauma in a way that is incredibly revealing 35 00:02:23,080 --> 00:02:29,800 Speaker 1: and um and powerful. UM in the sense that we all, 36 00:02:30,600 --> 00:02:36,120 Speaker 1: all humans experienced trauma UM, and it's kind of a 37 00:02:36,160 --> 00:02:40,240 Speaker 1: hallmark of trauma to think that we don't, or to 38 00:02:40,360 --> 00:02:45,919 Speaker 1: compare um, the whole sort of idea of well this 39 00:02:46,000 --> 00:02:48,799 Speaker 1: isn't really I mean, there's always someone who has more 40 00:02:48,840 --> 00:02:51,840 Speaker 1: trauma in that kind of thinking. What we do is 41 00:02:51,880 --> 00:02:57,680 Speaker 1: we disavow our own experience. UM and UM. Dr Matte 42 00:02:57,800 --> 00:03:00,800 Speaker 1: actually says at one point it's funny I was writing 43 00:03:00,800 --> 00:03:03,600 Speaker 1: it down at a moment where in the episode you 44 00:03:03,639 --> 00:03:07,920 Speaker 1: said stop and write this down, and I was literally already. 45 00:03:07,960 --> 00:03:10,320 Speaker 1: I was like, stuff, I'm writing it down. And and 46 00:03:10,560 --> 00:03:14,280 Speaker 1: the line is, trauma isn't what happens to us, It's 47 00:03:14,280 --> 00:03:18,200 Speaker 1: what happens inside us. Yes, exactly. And and so here 48 00:03:18,240 --> 00:03:23,720 Speaker 1: we are in this moment where the entire world is 49 00:03:24,600 --> 00:03:30,639 Speaker 1: experiencing trauma all together. We're all experiencing it, and it's 50 00:03:30,720 --> 00:03:37,120 Speaker 1: unprecedented in our lifetimes. UM. We have no muscle memory 51 00:03:37,200 --> 00:03:40,000 Speaker 1: for it. And like, here we are. You're in your closet, 52 00:03:40,760 --> 00:03:44,080 Speaker 1: I'm in my son's old playroom. Our whole worlds are 53 00:03:44,680 --> 00:03:48,080 Speaker 1: very much divided into before and after this experience that 54 00:03:48,080 --> 00:03:51,160 Speaker 1: we're having, and are underscored by the fact that we 55 00:03:51,200 --> 00:03:54,640 Speaker 1: don't know what the other side of this experience is 56 00:03:54,680 --> 00:03:58,040 Speaker 1: going to be. We're all in grief, and we're in 57 00:03:58,040 --> 00:04:02,000 Speaker 1: grief for our former lives, for the world, and for 58 00:04:02,080 --> 00:04:06,160 Speaker 1: what's happening to other people all around us. UM and 59 00:04:06,200 --> 00:04:09,840 Speaker 1: the stories that are relentlessly coming at us. So the comfort, 60 00:04:10,160 --> 00:04:15,000 Speaker 1: I think, or the solace is in connecting. And we 61 00:04:15,080 --> 00:04:17,680 Speaker 1: can't connect physically, but we can connect in terms of 62 00:04:17,720 --> 00:04:24,479 Speaker 1: these really powerful conversations about um the real stuff. Um So, 63 00:04:24,839 --> 00:04:26,760 Speaker 1: I guess where I'd really love to begin with you 64 00:04:26,880 --> 00:04:32,040 Speaker 1: is to talk a bit about your story. Where to start? 65 00:04:32,360 --> 00:04:38,919 Speaker 1: I had a really terrible traumatic couple of years my 66 00:04:40,360 --> 00:04:44,120 Speaker 1: um I met my my husband, was incredible, amazing, love him. 67 00:04:44,160 --> 00:04:47,080 Speaker 1: He's downstairs taking care of my kids, um his as well, 68 00:04:47,279 --> 00:04:53,640 Speaker 1: our mutual children, and UM met him or met him 69 00:04:53,680 --> 00:04:57,440 Speaker 1: like earlier. But we were gonna get married, and like 70 00:04:57,560 --> 00:04:59,599 Speaker 1: three days before my wedding, my brother called and told 71 00:04:59,600 --> 00:05:03,120 Speaker 1: me that he was addicted to OxyContin and that he 72 00:05:03,240 --> 00:05:08,080 Speaker 1: was spending four thousand dollars a month on pills. And 73 00:05:08,160 --> 00:05:11,239 Speaker 1: I mean, when I look at this like narratively, that's 74 00:05:11,279 --> 00:05:14,920 Speaker 1: the moment where everything kind of like got really wobbly 75 00:05:15,200 --> 00:05:19,520 Speaker 1: and I was set on this journey that I never 76 00:05:20,440 --> 00:05:23,680 Speaker 1: chose and that I would never have chosen, and that 77 00:05:23,839 --> 00:05:26,760 Speaker 1: um I don't know. It's weird when you look back 78 00:05:26,800 --> 00:05:30,720 Speaker 1: and you can identify a moment of change, of profound change, 79 00:05:30,800 --> 00:05:34,920 Speaker 1: and there have been a few of those since. Um So, 80 00:05:34,960 --> 00:05:36,520 Speaker 1: that kind of like set us off on this like 81 00:05:36,600 --> 00:05:45,560 Speaker 1: addiction roller coaster that I truly do not wish on anyone. Um, 82 00:05:45,600 --> 00:05:47,919 Speaker 1: it's very trite to say my worst enemy, but I don't. 83 00:05:47,960 --> 00:05:49,919 Speaker 1: I don't wish that on my worst enemy. There is 84 00:05:49,960 --> 00:05:52,520 Speaker 1: no right way to do it. There is only a 85 00:05:52,560 --> 00:05:56,040 Speaker 1: way that works for the individual. And it's really hard 86 00:05:56,080 --> 00:05:59,279 Speaker 1: when you're in that space to find good advice and 87 00:05:59,320 --> 00:06:03,400 Speaker 1: to find sound kind of like textbook this is what 88 00:06:03,480 --> 00:06:06,000 Speaker 1: you do, Like you have this type of cancer, this 89 00:06:06,040 --> 00:06:09,960 Speaker 1: is what you do. There's nothing like that. And um, 90 00:06:10,000 --> 00:06:13,480 Speaker 1: the people who are supposed to be experts, you end 91 00:06:13,560 --> 00:06:15,200 Speaker 1: up having to pay a ton of money to go 92 00:06:15,279 --> 00:06:18,880 Speaker 1: to their facilities. And so there's sort of a are 93 00:06:19,040 --> 00:06:21,960 Speaker 1: you really doing what's best for the person or are 94 00:06:22,040 --> 00:06:25,640 Speaker 1: you incentivizing relapse instead of recovery. And so obviously, when 95 00:06:25,640 --> 00:06:28,320 Speaker 1: you're in the moment, you're just desperate to help your person. 96 00:06:29,400 --> 00:06:32,200 Speaker 1: And my brother was in and out of rehab and 97 00:06:32,240 --> 00:06:33,880 Speaker 1: we did what we thought was best. He kept going 98 00:06:33,880 --> 00:06:35,840 Speaker 1: to these thirty day programs. I now know that that 99 00:06:35,960 --> 00:06:39,880 Speaker 1: is the worst possible thing you could do. I didn't 100 00:06:39,920 --> 00:06:45,040 Speaker 1: know it at the time. And in in I had 101 00:06:45,040 --> 00:06:48,200 Speaker 1: a baby. So I had my my first child, Iris 102 00:06:48,279 --> 00:06:50,560 Speaker 1: and um twenty four hours after she was born, she 103 00:06:50,720 --> 00:06:56,839 Speaker 1: had a hearing loss and there was no genetic reasoning 104 00:06:56,960 --> 00:06:59,760 Speaker 1: for it. It was like, yeah, we don't know what 105 00:06:59,839 --> 00:07:02,760 Speaker 1: A thousand babies, you know, she's she's the one. So 106 00:07:02,800 --> 00:07:05,160 Speaker 1: it set us on this course of like testing. And 107 00:07:06,240 --> 00:07:07,919 Speaker 1: I remember the day where I had to sign the 108 00:07:07,960 --> 00:07:10,280 Speaker 1: thing like you're gonna put your two months old through 109 00:07:10,280 --> 00:07:12,600 Speaker 1: an m r I and they might come about brain 110 00:07:12,680 --> 00:07:15,680 Speaker 1: dead and is that okay? Initial here? And I just 111 00:07:15,800 --> 00:07:17,800 Speaker 1: was thinking like, no, no, none of this is okay. 112 00:07:17,800 --> 00:07:21,080 Speaker 1: And my brother went to rehab that first time in 113 00:07:21,080 --> 00:07:24,360 Speaker 1: that time period, so within like a month, I had 114 00:07:24,360 --> 00:07:27,400 Speaker 1: a new baby. I found out she had a permanent disability. 115 00:07:27,480 --> 00:07:31,960 Speaker 1: And my brother went to this thirty day program and 116 00:07:31,960 --> 00:07:33,760 Speaker 1: and then like a lot of other trivial things, it's 117 00:07:33,760 --> 00:07:35,920 Speaker 1: not super trivial, my house had a mold infestation. We 118 00:07:35,920 --> 00:07:37,240 Speaker 1: had to move out. I mean it was like like 119 00:07:38,040 --> 00:07:42,840 Speaker 1: a garbage time. It's funny the way that something like 120 00:07:42,880 --> 00:07:46,679 Speaker 1: a mold infestation, which would have been number one thing 121 00:07:46,680 --> 00:07:51,200 Speaker 1: and somebody else's year, turns into nothing more than a nuisance. 122 00:07:51,320 --> 00:07:55,400 Speaker 1: When I sat against the backdrop of of all that, 123 00:07:56,320 --> 00:07:58,360 Speaker 1: you know, I thought a lot about this that you know, 124 00:07:59,200 --> 00:08:02,120 Speaker 1: the things that up and there's no sort of like 125 00:08:02,360 --> 00:08:07,600 Speaker 1: even handed meeting out of difficult things, right, Like some 126 00:08:07,640 --> 00:08:09,880 Speaker 1: people just don't have any for a really long time, 127 00:08:09,920 --> 00:08:13,560 Speaker 1: and then other others of us have like multiples. It's 128 00:08:13,840 --> 00:08:18,280 Speaker 1: one of my least favorite expressions on earth is um. 129 00:08:18,320 --> 00:08:19,960 Speaker 1: You know, God doesn't give us more than we can handle, 130 00:08:20,960 --> 00:08:25,440 Speaker 1: you know, does he not? Does he not? Really? I 131 00:08:25,440 --> 00:08:28,920 Speaker 1: think he does. I think so too. Also, when when 132 00:08:28,960 --> 00:08:33,160 Speaker 1: you were talking about UM, when your brother first let 133 00:08:33,200 --> 00:08:36,640 Speaker 1: you know right before your wedding that he was addicted 134 00:08:37,360 --> 00:08:41,600 Speaker 1: to oxy um, he asked you not to tell your parents. Yeah, 135 00:08:42,320 --> 00:08:45,920 Speaker 1: so you know, in like in family Secrets, the the 136 00:08:45,960 --> 00:08:48,880 Speaker 1: tagline is um the secrets that are kept from us, 137 00:08:48,880 --> 00:08:51,080 Speaker 1: the secrets we keep from others, and the secrets we 138 00:08:51,160 --> 00:08:55,120 Speaker 1: keep from ourselves. And it's like you were suddenly thrust 139 00:08:55,120 --> 00:09:01,600 Speaker 1: into this like sort of impossible situation of keeping his secret. Yeah. 140 00:09:01,640 --> 00:09:05,480 Speaker 1: And it's interesting because I got pregnant like very soon 141 00:09:05,520 --> 00:09:11,800 Speaker 1: after we got married, UM, and so I was pregnant 142 00:09:12,360 --> 00:09:15,080 Speaker 1: and carrying the secret. I felt like I was like 143 00:09:15,480 --> 00:09:18,600 Speaker 1: full of both of these things and they were like 144 00:09:19,559 --> 00:09:22,320 Speaker 1: at war and my body. I mean, I I'm not 145 00:09:22,360 --> 00:09:24,000 Speaker 1: one of these women that is able to have like 146 00:09:24,120 --> 00:09:28,240 Speaker 1: very effortless pregnancies, like I suffer in my pregnancies. It's 147 00:09:28,360 --> 00:09:31,959 Speaker 1: hard on my body. And so I was, um, just 148 00:09:32,080 --> 00:09:35,560 Speaker 1: really not feeling well. And then I felt like my 149 00:09:35,559 --> 00:09:38,800 Speaker 1: my soul was like darkening every day with this thing 150 00:09:39,080 --> 00:09:45,000 Speaker 1: and this responsibility that if I didn't tell my parents 151 00:09:45,280 --> 00:09:48,040 Speaker 1: or anyone else and he died, I'd have to live 152 00:09:48,080 --> 00:09:50,760 Speaker 1: with that. But then I didn't want to betray his 153 00:09:50,840 --> 00:09:54,440 Speaker 1: trust because I also thought that was an important part 154 00:09:54,440 --> 00:09:57,559 Speaker 1: of all of this. So it was really an impossible situation. 155 00:09:57,640 --> 00:10:02,840 Speaker 1: And just like the pregnancy hormones as well, um, I 156 00:10:02,880 --> 00:10:07,920 Speaker 1: felt like I was thrust into another galaxy of of stress. 157 00:10:07,960 --> 00:10:10,960 Speaker 1: I mean I was just like, um, it was eating 158 00:10:10,960 --> 00:10:14,800 Speaker 1: me alive. We talked about the the Mate conversation I 159 00:10:14,840 --> 00:10:18,280 Speaker 1: had on my show, Like I started that conversation saying 160 00:10:18,920 --> 00:10:21,120 Speaker 1: we had a perfect childhood, like we're super happy family. 161 00:10:21,160 --> 00:10:23,320 Speaker 1: So your thesis that everyone who is addicted as a 162 00:10:23,400 --> 00:10:26,480 Speaker 1: result of drama is wrong, you know. That was like 163 00:10:26,559 --> 00:10:27,560 Speaker 1: kind of was like, so what do you have to 164 00:10:27,559 --> 00:10:31,320 Speaker 1: say to that, Matte and uh, and he was like, actually, 165 00:10:31,920 --> 00:10:34,360 Speaker 1: let me tell you how you're wrong. You know. Yeah, 166 00:10:34,360 --> 00:10:35,600 Speaker 1: he was like He's like, do you have a couple 167 00:10:35,640 --> 00:10:38,480 Speaker 1: of minutes. It's like, are you ready for a therapy 168 00:10:38,480 --> 00:10:40,920 Speaker 1: session about you? Because I'm ready to give it to you. 169 00:10:41,040 --> 00:10:45,240 Speaker 1: And you know, all of that is true. Like there's 170 00:10:45,400 --> 00:10:47,439 Speaker 1: a lot of layers in complexity in every family, but 171 00:10:47,480 --> 00:10:50,319 Speaker 1: I would say, like on a sort of like base level, 172 00:10:50,440 --> 00:10:52,920 Speaker 1: we are people who like each other. Um, we are 173 00:10:52,960 --> 00:10:56,600 Speaker 1: people who get along. We are a close family. And 174 00:10:57,240 --> 00:10:59,760 Speaker 1: at some point, you know, my mom was like, what 175 00:11:00,040 --> 00:11:02,200 Speaker 1: is happening with you? You know, like tell me what 176 00:11:02,400 --> 00:11:06,520 Speaker 1: is going on? And um, you know, it kind of 177 00:11:06,520 --> 00:11:08,000 Speaker 1: came out. I was at the very end of my 178 00:11:08,040 --> 00:11:10,560 Speaker 1: first trimester, so I was coming out of that version 179 00:11:10,600 --> 00:11:15,640 Speaker 1: of hell. And um, anyone who's been pregnant before understands 180 00:11:15,640 --> 00:11:20,040 Speaker 1: what I mean. And and my parents, you know, they 181 00:11:20,040 --> 00:11:23,480 Speaker 1: were just joining the party, so so to speak. And 182 00:11:23,559 --> 00:11:27,959 Speaker 1: so my dad's a doctor. He was like family medicine, 183 00:11:27,960 --> 00:11:30,319 Speaker 1: internal medicine, and you know he was they were sort 184 00:11:30,320 --> 00:11:32,079 Speaker 1: of like, yeah, okay, well, well we're going to l 185 00:11:32,120 --> 00:11:34,640 Speaker 1: a in a couple of weeks and we'll we'll solve it, 186 00:11:35,040 --> 00:11:39,840 Speaker 1: you know, we'll take care of it. And um, looking 187 00:11:39,880 --> 00:11:44,040 Speaker 1: back on that, you just see how powerless and naive 188 00:11:44,200 --> 00:11:47,400 Speaker 1: we all were at that at that time. UM to 189 00:11:47,520 --> 00:11:52,120 Speaker 1: think that we had any control over over this thing. Right, Well, 190 00:11:52,160 --> 00:11:56,480 Speaker 1: there's this like basic human impulse, isn't there to just um? 191 00:11:57,240 --> 00:11:59,679 Speaker 1: I think that we can I think that we can 192 00:11:59,720 --> 00:12:03,000 Speaker 1: saw things, or that we can trace them back to 193 00:12:03,080 --> 00:12:07,360 Speaker 1: their origins. UM that there's um you know that there 194 00:12:07,360 --> 00:12:10,560 Speaker 1: are steps to follow in some kind of orderly way 195 00:12:10,600 --> 00:12:14,559 Speaker 1: that will fix whatever whatever whatever ails us or whatever 196 00:12:14,600 --> 00:12:16,760 Speaker 1: ails those that we love, or you know that there's 197 00:12:16,960 --> 00:12:20,400 Speaker 1: that there's some kind of like tangible solution. And then 198 00:12:20,400 --> 00:12:22,959 Speaker 1: there's certain things in life that are just so impossibly 199 00:12:23,080 --> 00:12:28,720 Speaker 1: messy um and impossible to um you know, to grasp um. 200 00:12:29,559 --> 00:12:33,480 Speaker 1: And and I think addiction is like definitely falls into 201 00:12:33,520 --> 00:12:37,960 Speaker 1: that category. So that exactly what you just said exactly 202 00:12:38,040 --> 00:12:40,880 Speaker 1: that that that messiness, that that there are things that 203 00:12:40,960 --> 00:12:45,640 Speaker 1: you just cannot possibly contain. Um. They do not fit 204 00:12:45,679 --> 00:12:50,720 Speaker 1: inside of any of the boxes that you understand. You 205 00:12:50,800 --> 00:12:54,760 Speaker 1: have no roadmap. I have this recurring image like the 206 00:12:54,840 --> 00:12:57,720 Speaker 1: last five years, six years of like utter chaos, it feels. 207 00:12:57,800 --> 00:13:00,720 Speaker 1: I I always have this image of trying to push 208 00:13:00,800 --> 00:13:04,720 Speaker 1: back the ocean, like trying to make it move, or 209 00:13:04,800 --> 00:13:08,040 Speaker 1: like taking like a sand toy. You know, like a 210 00:13:08,040 --> 00:13:12,679 Speaker 1: shovel and trying to like make it go away, and 211 00:13:12,840 --> 00:13:17,560 Speaker 1: it's just such a feudal task. And so all of 212 00:13:17,559 --> 00:13:21,480 Speaker 1: these things just like kept happening. That made me realize 213 00:13:21,520 --> 00:13:25,680 Speaker 1: I have absolutely no control over anything, you know that, 214 00:13:25,840 --> 00:13:32,520 Speaker 1: Like I am sort of like at the mercy of 215 00:13:32,520 --> 00:13:35,600 Speaker 1: of of everything. And you know, my brother having this 216 00:13:35,600 --> 00:13:38,200 Speaker 1: this addiction on top of this thing we were dealing 217 00:13:38,280 --> 00:13:40,640 Speaker 1: with my daughter, and we've covered this on the show 218 00:13:40,679 --> 00:13:43,160 Speaker 1: a lot. But every time you you get sober and 219 00:13:43,160 --> 00:13:44,920 Speaker 1: then you go back to it, it's like the addiction 220 00:13:44,960 --> 00:13:47,199 Speaker 1: has time to like do jumping jacks and push ups 221 00:13:47,200 --> 00:13:50,040 Speaker 1: and to get stronger and stronger. And so every time 222 00:13:50,080 --> 00:13:51,600 Speaker 1: he would go back to it, it would get stronger, 223 00:13:51,640 --> 00:13:55,679 Speaker 1: and you know, Oxy moved to heroin and UM, it 224 00:13:55,880 --> 00:13:59,800 Speaker 1: just became something that was really unmanageable in a bunch 225 00:13:59,800 --> 00:14:03,679 Speaker 1: of days, and so UM as I was kind of 226 00:14:03,720 --> 00:14:11,200 Speaker 1: coming to grips with the acceptance phase of UM, this 227 00:14:11,280 --> 00:14:14,000 Speaker 1: is the way that that my daughter is. Like you know, 228 00:14:14,040 --> 00:14:15,400 Speaker 1: when when you have a baby, you have all these 229 00:14:15,440 --> 00:14:18,320 Speaker 1: expectations for how it's going to be right, and this 230 00:14:18,440 --> 00:14:22,040 Speaker 1: certainly was not my expectation, and so I had I 231 00:14:22,120 --> 00:14:25,680 Speaker 1: experienced UM the way that it was as a as 232 00:14:25,680 --> 00:14:30,240 Speaker 1: a type of grief. Um. And so I was kind 233 00:14:30,240 --> 00:14:34,560 Speaker 1: of like coming to acceptance about the fact that, in fact, 234 00:14:35,000 --> 00:14:39,160 Speaker 1: her hearing loss has been an incredible gift to her. 235 00:14:39,280 --> 00:14:43,320 Speaker 1: I mean she's like, you know, I mean, the kid 236 00:14:43,440 --> 00:14:46,440 Speaker 1: is a miracle of miracles. I mean she's just like 237 00:14:46,520 --> 00:14:49,280 Speaker 1: she she never stops talking. Her vocabulary is sharper than mine, 238 00:14:49,360 --> 00:14:53,800 Speaker 1: Like she's six, you know, and she's like this, she's 239 00:14:53,840 --> 00:14:56,800 Speaker 1: definitely going to be a writer, storyteller. Um, you know, 240 00:14:56,840 --> 00:14:58,720 Speaker 1: a natural impath. I mean, she has all these amazing 241 00:14:58,720 --> 00:15:02,440 Speaker 1: things that I swear our result of her having to 242 00:15:02,520 --> 00:15:05,760 Speaker 1: listen a little harder and having to really look at 243 00:15:05,760 --> 00:15:09,120 Speaker 1: people when they talk, and having to tune in in 244 00:15:09,160 --> 00:15:12,960 Speaker 1: a way that most little kids don't have to. And 245 00:15:13,000 --> 00:15:15,960 Speaker 1: I think it has like really sharpened her little brain 246 00:15:16,000 --> 00:15:20,320 Speaker 1: in a way that is just incredible. Um. But of course, 247 00:15:20,320 --> 00:15:23,680 Speaker 1: when when you first start thrust on onto this new 248 00:15:23,720 --> 00:15:26,400 Speaker 1: horizon and and I'm just looking at this little baby 249 00:15:26,400 --> 00:15:28,320 Speaker 1: who can't tell me that it's going to be okay, 250 00:15:28,720 --> 00:15:31,320 Speaker 1: I just am like worst case everything, you know. And 251 00:15:31,360 --> 00:15:33,640 Speaker 1: so I was coming to terms with all of this 252 00:15:33,720 --> 00:15:37,280 Speaker 1: and seeing that she was like this true divine miracle, 253 00:15:37,360 --> 00:15:40,080 Speaker 1: all of this great stuff. And we were literally at 254 00:15:40,560 --> 00:15:42,240 Speaker 1: the place where we go to get her speech therapy 255 00:15:42,240 --> 00:15:43,960 Speaker 1: and audiology and the phone ring and it was a 256 00:15:44,040 --> 00:15:46,840 Speaker 1: detective telling me that my brother was dead, you know, 257 00:15:47,080 --> 00:15:51,960 Speaker 1: and m Um, she was like thirteen months at that point. 258 00:15:53,360 --> 00:15:55,920 Speaker 1: And uh. And then it's like onto the next nightmare. 259 00:15:55,960 --> 00:15:59,119 Speaker 1: You know, It's like, okay, here we go now into 260 00:15:59,240 --> 00:16:01,480 Speaker 1: this place and at in that place, like once my 261 00:16:01,560 --> 00:16:09,280 Speaker 1: brother died, it became um, I just was annihilated. There 262 00:16:09,280 --> 00:16:11,880 Speaker 1: just was nothing, like there was nothing left. I felt 263 00:16:12,120 --> 00:16:17,640 Speaker 1: completely gutted. I felt completely like a bomb had dropped 264 00:16:17,680 --> 00:16:20,240 Speaker 1: on my entire everything and I was nothing. I was 265 00:16:20,280 --> 00:16:23,240 Speaker 1: nothing anymore, Like who I was was done like this 266 00:16:23,360 --> 00:16:25,600 Speaker 1: before and after. Idea that it was like before my 267 00:16:25,640 --> 00:16:30,400 Speaker 1: brother died and after, um his rings very very true. 268 00:16:30,440 --> 00:16:34,480 Speaker 1: I didn't like experience human feelings and the way like 269 00:16:34,720 --> 00:16:37,080 Speaker 1: it's so hard to talk about that kind of profound grief, 270 00:16:37,160 --> 00:16:43,640 Speaker 1: but like you are so um like dead inside. I 271 00:16:43,640 --> 00:16:45,680 Speaker 1: guess that is how I would describe it. I didn't 272 00:16:45,680 --> 00:16:50,640 Speaker 1: want to eat or laugh, or talk or see people 273 00:16:50,760 --> 00:16:55,160 Speaker 1: or communicate or be a person. I didn't want to 274 00:16:55,200 --> 00:16:58,240 Speaker 1: do anything but like lay in silence, in the dark, 275 00:16:58,320 --> 00:17:00,480 Speaker 1: you know, for a really long time. It was just awful. 276 00:17:01,120 --> 00:17:03,720 Speaker 1: And to have that kind of crippling pain while you 277 00:17:03,800 --> 00:17:05,920 Speaker 1: have like a one year old was also a really 278 00:17:05,920 --> 00:17:12,320 Speaker 1: difficult experience. And as I'm like processing that, I started 279 00:17:12,320 --> 00:17:16,440 Speaker 1: to to write about it, um, because I truly could 280 00:17:16,480 --> 00:17:20,320 Speaker 1: not use words um with my mouth, so I UM, 281 00:17:20,520 --> 00:17:23,600 Speaker 1: I just started writing them down and it was really messy. 282 00:17:24,200 --> 00:17:27,280 Speaker 1: Talk a little bit about that impulse, because that's something 283 00:17:27,400 --> 00:17:33,480 Speaker 1: that UM, many people think about writing um, you know, 284 00:17:34,119 --> 00:17:41,080 Speaker 1: from a profoundly difficult traumatic experience as um like therapeutic 285 00:17:41,400 --> 00:17:44,679 Speaker 1: or um cathartic. That's a word that comes up a 286 00:17:44,680 --> 00:17:47,720 Speaker 1: lot of people say it must have been cathartic too, um. 287 00:17:47,760 --> 00:17:49,760 Speaker 1: You know, to sort of like get that out, like 288 00:17:49,840 --> 00:17:53,520 Speaker 1: what what was the what? What drew your pen to 289 00:17:53,600 --> 00:17:56,639 Speaker 1: paper or your fingers to the keyboard. It's so hard 290 00:17:56,680 --> 00:17:59,639 Speaker 1: to articulate because again I was like not a person 291 00:18:00,040 --> 00:18:04,200 Speaker 1: at that point, Like I didn't have human like impulses. 292 00:18:04,359 --> 00:18:06,320 Speaker 1: It was just like such a mess, you know. I 293 00:18:06,320 --> 00:18:09,399 Speaker 1: felt like a pile of mush. And I remember it 294 00:18:09,480 --> 00:18:13,560 Speaker 1: was this fascinating thing where like my daughter would only 295 00:18:13,680 --> 00:18:17,280 Speaker 1: nap in the car and so I was like stuck 296 00:18:17,280 --> 00:18:20,480 Speaker 1: in the car with her for hours because you don't 297 00:18:20,520 --> 00:18:24,800 Speaker 1: wake a sleeping baby. And I couldn't be on social 298 00:18:24,800 --> 00:18:28,960 Speaker 1: media because it was really painful. Um to see people 299 00:18:29,040 --> 00:18:33,240 Speaker 1: being happy, it's like really hard. And so I like, 300 00:18:33,400 --> 00:18:35,240 Speaker 1: I couldn't just sit there like I'm a do or 301 00:18:35,320 --> 00:18:38,200 Speaker 1: I need to occupy my time with something. I just 302 00:18:38,320 --> 00:18:39,560 Speaker 1: didn't know what to do, and so I just had 303 00:18:39,560 --> 00:18:43,400 Speaker 1: this impulse to start like pouring all the stuff out 304 00:18:43,400 --> 00:18:47,200 Speaker 1: of my brain onto my iPhone notes app. And that's 305 00:18:47,200 --> 00:18:51,200 Speaker 1: where I started just pecking, like finger pecking away at 306 00:18:52,359 --> 00:18:57,360 Speaker 1: what I was feeling, and um, it felt like exercising 307 00:18:57,440 --> 00:19:00,600 Speaker 1: demons or something. It was just like I have so 308 00:19:00,720 --> 00:19:02,520 Speaker 1: much pain in my body right now and it's going 309 00:19:02,600 --> 00:19:05,200 Speaker 1: to kill me and I have to get it out 310 00:19:05,280 --> 00:19:07,160 Speaker 1: of my body. But that was the that's the only 311 00:19:07,200 --> 00:19:09,359 Speaker 1: way I could describe it. It was like a compulsion. 312 00:19:09,720 --> 00:19:14,959 Speaker 1: And and I had like this massive document that I 313 00:19:15,000 --> 00:19:19,119 Speaker 1: had been like just texting essentially, you know. And my 314 00:19:19,200 --> 00:19:24,159 Speaker 1: husband was like, why don't you put this into an essay? 315 00:19:24,280 --> 00:19:25,719 Speaker 1: You know, why don't you like put this on your 316 00:19:25,760 --> 00:19:30,720 Speaker 1: computer from your phone and and you know, put it 317 00:19:30,800 --> 00:19:36,119 Speaker 1: on this medium website basically, And I had written something 318 00:19:36,160 --> 00:19:38,240 Speaker 1: when my daughter was around five or six months old. 319 00:19:38,240 --> 00:19:39,920 Speaker 1: It was the same feeling of like, I feel really 320 00:19:39,960 --> 00:19:42,560 Speaker 1: helpless and I need to like describe the feeling because 321 00:19:42,600 --> 00:19:46,800 Speaker 1: I can't, Like I want to explain to people who 322 00:19:46,880 --> 00:19:48,640 Speaker 1: I know and love, like this is what I'm going through, 323 00:19:48,680 --> 00:19:51,240 Speaker 1: but I can't. I don't want to see anyone and 324 00:19:51,280 --> 00:19:54,119 Speaker 1: I don't want to talk. And so it felt easier 325 00:19:54,119 --> 00:19:56,439 Speaker 1: to just kind of like write it out. And I 326 00:19:56,480 --> 00:19:58,320 Speaker 1: had done that, and my husband had given me this 327 00:19:58,480 --> 00:20:00,200 Speaker 1: medium account and I had put that essay up and 328 00:20:00,240 --> 00:20:03,639 Speaker 1: I remember feeling like really kind of like m relieved 329 00:20:03,760 --> 00:20:06,600 Speaker 1: once I had shared it, and he said, why don't 330 00:20:06,640 --> 00:20:10,480 Speaker 1: you try it again? You know? And I felt I 331 00:20:10,480 --> 00:20:13,080 Speaker 1: think at that point I had literally nothing to lose, 332 00:20:13,119 --> 00:20:15,600 Speaker 1: because I again wasn't human anymore, and so I was like, sure, fine. 333 00:20:16,560 --> 00:20:18,959 Speaker 1: And once I put that essay up that was just 334 00:20:19,320 --> 00:20:23,480 Speaker 1: so raw and so unfiltered and just um pouring my 335 00:20:23,560 --> 00:20:28,600 Speaker 1: guts out. Uh, people started responding to it and like 336 00:20:29,359 --> 00:20:34,320 Speaker 1: it was crazy what happened, and um, it just sort 337 00:20:34,359 --> 00:20:37,440 Speaker 1: of suggested to me that no one really hasn't the 338 00:20:37,560 --> 00:20:40,560 Speaker 1: idea of how to navigate this or how to talk 339 00:20:40,600 --> 00:20:43,119 Speaker 1: about it, or is given a space to talk about it. 340 00:20:43,160 --> 00:20:45,960 Speaker 1: I mean, people were strangers. I'm sure this happens to 341 00:20:46,000 --> 00:20:49,320 Speaker 1: you all the time too, is if strangers were emailing 342 00:20:49,320 --> 00:20:56,360 Speaker 1: me like this, just the most personal, profoundly private stuff 343 00:20:56,600 --> 00:21:00,320 Speaker 1: that I mean that they've never told anybody and felt 344 00:21:00,400 --> 00:21:05,880 Speaker 1: like you'll understand what I'm feeling. And that was just 345 00:21:05,920 --> 00:21:10,200 Speaker 1: like I did not expect that at all. Yeah, it's 346 00:21:10,240 --> 00:21:13,760 Speaker 1: so interesting the way that like what you're describing, really, 347 00:21:13,800 --> 00:21:15,679 Speaker 1: I mean, the way that I'm hearing it is you 348 00:21:15,800 --> 00:21:19,520 Speaker 1: were you know, you were writing yourself back into a 349 00:21:19,600 --> 00:21:24,560 Speaker 1: human state in some way, and and the the only 350 00:21:24,640 --> 00:21:28,200 Speaker 1: way to do that is by you know, I mean, 351 00:21:28,200 --> 00:21:32,080 Speaker 1: we overuse the word you know, authenticity and vulnerability. We 352 00:21:32,119 --> 00:21:34,520 Speaker 1: overuse those words for sure in our culture. But I 353 00:21:34,560 --> 00:21:38,240 Speaker 1: think that there's when we tap into something that is 354 00:21:38,280 --> 00:21:44,639 Speaker 1: just completely real, um like utterly um like unvarnished, un 355 00:21:44,880 --> 00:21:46,760 Speaker 1: you know, we we we live in a world that's 356 00:21:46,800 --> 00:21:51,480 Speaker 1: so full of like polish and filters and everybody sort 357 00:21:51,480 --> 00:21:56,919 Speaker 1: of putting their best face forward, and of course you 358 00:21:56,960 --> 00:22:01,760 Speaker 1: know that's just that's just veneer. And when when when 359 00:22:01,800 --> 00:22:04,800 Speaker 1: somebody actually cuts through all that and speaks the truth 360 00:22:05,680 --> 00:22:09,640 Speaker 1: um in in all of its you know, I mean, 361 00:22:10,040 --> 00:22:12,360 Speaker 1: I want to say ugliness because but it's not ugliness, 362 00:22:12,359 --> 00:22:16,720 Speaker 1: it's actually beautiful because ultimately that like ugliness or that 363 00:22:16,720 --> 00:22:19,960 Speaker 1: that that rawness is what we all share and and 364 00:22:20,000 --> 00:22:22,520 Speaker 1: what it is to be human. I mean, I was, 365 00:22:22,800 --> 00:22:25,520 Speaker 1: I was reading some of your work, um in in 366 00:22:25,560 --> 00:22:28,200 Speaker 1: thinking about talking to you, and I don't know whether 367 00:22:28,240 --> 00:22:30,399 Speaker 1: this is the piece that you were talking about, but 368 00:22:30,440 --> 00:22:31,880 Speaker 1: I wrote this down. I just want to read this 369 00:22:32,280 --> 00:22:35,080 Speaker 1: to you. This was something you wrote on the two 370 00:22:35,160 --> 00:22:40,520 Speaker 1: year anniversary of UM, your brother's death, UM. And and 371 00:22:40,560 --> 00:22:43,639 Speaker 1: the quote that I that I wrote down is the 372 00:22:43,680 --> 00:22:45,880 Speaker 1: best part about having your heart ripped out of your 373 00:22:45,880 --> 00:22:50,160 Speaker 1: body and put back in disfigured is that you give 374 00:22:50,240 --> 00:22:54,000 Speaker 1: significantly less fox about pretty much everything you did when 375 00:22:54,000 --> 00:22:56,399 Speaker 1: your heart was intact, when everything was fine and you 376 00:22:56,440 --> 00:22:59,359 Speaker 1: didn't even know it. And again I want to repeat that, 377 00:22:59,400 --> 00:23:01,920 Speaker 1: when everything was fine and you didn't even know it, 378 00:23:02,280 --> 00:23:04,879 Speaker 1: because I think listeners listening to this right now, in 379 00:23:04,960 --> 00:23:08,560 Speaker 1: this age of COVID nineteen, it's like everything was fine 380 00:23:08,560 --> 00:23:11,120 Speaker 1: and we just didn't know it. Like we used purses 381 00:23:11,160 --> 00:23:15,040 Speaker 1: and we put on shoes, and we gathered, we you know, 382 00:23:15,240 --> 00:23:17,960 Speaker 1: we went to parties, We hugged each other, We you know, 383 00:23:18,400 --> 00:23:22,959 Speaker 1: we we we we sneezed and nobody freaked out. And 384 00:23:22,960 --> 00:23:24,760 Speaker 1: and then and the last part that I that I 385 00:23:24,880 --> 00:23:27,080 Speaker 1: was down here was you don't have the bandwidth to 386 00:23:27,160 --> 00:23:31,880 Speaker 1: care about anything that doesn't really matter anymore. It's strangely refreshing. 387 00:23:32,800 --> 00:23:35,520 Speaker 1: And I thought about that, and I thought about the 388 00:23:35,520 --> 00:23:38,439 Speaker 1: way that you know, like with your daughter's hearing loss 389 00:23:38,720 --> 00:23:44,199 Speaker 1: and the gift that's inherent in um, the you know, 390 00:23:44,400 --> 00:23:46,320 Speaker 1: the meaning that she's going to make out of that 391 00:23:46,359 --> 00:23:49,199 Speaker 1: in her life. And well, yeah, I mean that's the 392 00:23:49,880 --> 00:23:52,720 Speaker 1: that's a beautiful way to put all of that. Yeah, 393 00:23:52,880 --> 00:23:56,719 Speaker 1: it's um that's why it does feel like with this moment. 394 00:23:57,119 --> 00:24:00,359 Speaker 1: I was joking the other day to somebody. I was like, Hey, like, 395 00:24:00,400 --> 00:24:02,600 Speaker 1: this is where I live, guys, welcome to my house. 396 00:24:02,800 --> 00:24:07,440 Speaker 1: I live in a state of complete mess and chaos 397 00:24:07,480 --> 00:24:11,080 Speaker 1: and grief and you know, and now everyone's here, and 398 00:24:11,640 --> 00:24:13,520 Speaker 1: how does it feel? You know, like it's this like 399 00:24:14,880 --> 00:24:17,960 Speaker 1: this collective thing that we're going through now. I think 400 00:24:18,000 --> 00:24:20,960 Speaker 1: grief is so lonely and it's so solitary, and everyone 401 00:24:21,000 --> 00:24:24,439 Speaker 1: experiences it so differently. UM, But one of the I 402 00:24:24,480 --> 00:24:30,680 Speaker 1: think most sort of like characteristic um or one of 403 00:24:30,720 --> 00:24:33,359 Speaker 1: the most universal characteristics of grief is that you feel 404 00:24:33,520 --> 00:24:37,199 Speaker 1: very alone in it, that you feel totally isolated, and 405 00:24:37,240 --> 00:24:39,560 Speaker 1: that you're on an island. And I think it's really 406 00:24:39,560 --> 00:24:42,359 Speaker 1: interesting right now what's happening is that like we're all 407 00:24:42,359 --> 00:24:44,480 Speaker 1: on our own little islands, but we're experiencing the same 408 00:24:44,520 --> 00:24:46,320 Speaker 1: kind of a thing. And the other thing that I 409 00:24:46,320 --> 00:24:49,840 Speaker 1: know about it is that once you, like I said, 410 00:24:49,880 --> 00:24:51,760 Speaker 1: you have your heart ripped out of your body or 411 00:24:52,840 --> 00:24:56,159 Speaker 1: your life is destroyed and what what was is no longer, 412 00:24:56,440 --> 00:24:59,679 Speaker 1: you have to rebuild. And so there is this really 413 00:25:00,760 --> 00:25:03,000 Speaker 1: I mean, I am very cynical as as a human being, 414 00:25:03,040 --> 00:25:05,119 Speaker 1: and I don't want to sound tripe, but there is 415 00:25:05,160 --> 00:25:10,520 Speaker 1: something about destruction leads to rebirth kind of a thing 416 00:25:10,640 --> 00:25:14,680 Speaker 1: that I think globally we are going to experience now. 417 00:25:14,720 --> 00:25:18,960 Speaker 1: Like I had this very personal pain and I channeled 418 00:25:18,960 --> 00:25:22,359 Speaker 1: it into this thing with writing, and then that's turned 419 00:25:22,359 --> 00:25:24,320 Speaker 1: into like writing a book and doing a podcast and 420 00:25:24,320 --> 00:25:26,240 Speaker 1: all the stuff that then when I talked to Dr 421 00:25:26,280 --> 00:25:28,840 Speaker 1: Mate told me that actually is my addiction and we 422 00:25:28,840 --> 00:25:31,440 Speaker 1: can get into that. But basically, like you know, like 423 00:25:31,960 --> 00:25:35,760 Speaker 1: I ended up reinventing myself um out of a place 424 00:25:35,800 --> 00:25:38,680 Speaker 1: of like true tragedy. It was like, yeah, I don't 425 00:25:38,680 --> 00:25:40,240 Speaker 1: give a funk about anything in the way that I 426 00:25:40,320 --> 00:25:42,359 Speaker 1: used to. I am no longer who I was. My 427 00:25:42,720 --> 00:25:45,000 Speaker 1: entire identity has shifted, and now I have to figure 428 00:25:45,000 --> 00:25:48,200 Speaker 1: out who the funk am I now that I am 429 00:25:48,240 --> 00:25:51,640 Speaker 1: no longer that person? You know. And it's like if 430 00:25:51,680 --> 00:25:55,080 Speaker 1: your house is destroyed and and you have to rebuild 431 00:25:55,119 --> 00:25:57,280 Speaker 1: it the second the second house, you're gonna go, well, 432 00:25:57,320 --> 00:26:00,200 Speaker 1: you know what, I didn't actually like where the stairs were. 433 00:26:00,200 --> 00:26:01,919 Speaker 1: I don't think it made a ton of sense. Like 434 00:26:02,840 --> 00:26:04,800 Speaker 1: this house, I'm going to make the stairs go over there. 435 00:26:04,800 --> 00:26:07,400 Speaker 1: I'm gonna be really intentional about it. And I think 436 00:26:07,440 --> 00:26:09,800 Speaker 1: that that what ended up happening in my case is 437 00:26:09,840 --> 00:26:13,080 Speaker 1: that there were a lot of things that weren't actually 438 00:26:13,080 --> 00:26:16,639 Speaker 1: working for me that I had to like put the 439 00:26:16,640 --> 00:26:19,200 Speaker 1: pieces back together in a way that felt more authentic 440 00:26:19,240 --> 00:26:22,480 Speaker 1: to who I was as a human being. Uh. And 441 00:26:22,960 --> 00:26:29,159 Speaker 1: it's turned into this company, and um, I ended up 442 00:26:29,200 --> 00:26:31,879 Speaker 1: connecting with this other woman who had experienced a similar 443 00:26:31,960 --> 00:26:34,200 Speaker 1: kind of a pain, and you know, like basically reached 444 00:26:34,200 --> 00:26:37,280 Speaker 1: out and was like, Hey, I have your pain. You 445 00:26:37,359 --> 00:26:40,640 Speaker 1: want to collaborate? And I was like, no, actually, don't. 446 00:26:41,480 --> 00:26:45,199 Speaker 1: My My initial reaction was like, no, that actually sounds terrible. 447 00:26:45,240 --> 00:26:47,760 Speaker 1: I'm I'm actually done with my pain. I just had 448 00:26:47,760 --> 00:26:49,600 Speaker 1: a baby, my second baby, so I'm going to just 449 00:26:50,200 --> 00:26:53,200 Speaker 1: do that. And um, it was really nice to meet you, 450 00:26:53,920 --> 00:26:59,159 Speaker 1: and uh, we'll keep in touch, you know, And um, 451 00:26:59,200 --> 00:27:03,600 Speaker 1: that just didn't didn't work. I had my baby because 452 00:27:03,640 --> 00:27:06,040 Speaker 1: the world is the way that it is. He is also, 453 00:27:06,800 --> 00:27:10,400 Speaker 1: he has a profound deafness in one of his ears, 454 00:27:10,480 --> 00:27:13,880 Speaker 1: normal hearing and the other, um, totally different hearing loss 455 00:27:13,880 --> 00:27:17,680 Speaker 1: than my daughter, you know, like my putature should I think, 456 00:27:17,720 --> 00:27:20,840 Speaker 1: was like, yeah, yeah, lightning did struck strike twice, you know, 457 00:27:21,000 --> 00:27:25,280 Speaker 1: like that's my explanation for you. And and so I 458 00:27:25,320 --> 00:27:27,520 Speaker 1: was sort of like going through that kind of you 459 00:27:27,560 --> 00:27:29,560 Speaker 1: know place again off like, oh I thought it was 460 00:27:29,560 --> 00:27:31,840 Speaker 1: gonna be this way and it's not. And all the 461 00:27:31,880 --> 00:27:33,720 Speaker 1: things that I learned about my daughter actually don't apply 462 00:27:33,760 --> 00:27:38,119 Speaker 1: to my son because it's two different things. And um, 463 00:27:38,160 --> 00:27:40,520 Speaker 1: in the midst of that, I I read this article 464 00:27:40,560 --> 00:27:42,960 Speaker 1: that opioids are killing more people than car accidents and 465 00:27:44,000 --> 00:27:47,640 Speaker 1: literally like picked up my phone email Jess and was like, Okay, 466 00:27:47,920 --> 00:27:51,280 Speaker 1: let's let's do this because I don't honestly feel like 467 00:27:51,359 --> 00:27:55,920 Speaker 1: I have a choice like I don't want to make 468 00:27:55,960 --> 00:28:00,199 Speaker 1: my entire life about heroin Like that sucks and that 469 00:28:01,440 --> 00:28:04,639 Speaker 1: is not who I am. I I I'm funny and 470 00:28:04,680 --> 00:28:08,159 Speaker 1: I like to have fun and I don't want to 471 00:28:08,200 --> 00:28:11,800 Speaker 1: be a bummer, you know. But like this is my experience, 472 00:28:11,840 --> 00:28:13,920 Speaker 1: and I don't know as an artist, like I've always 473 00:28:13,920 --> 00:28:15,720 Speaker 1: been an artist, and I don't know how to like 474 00:28:15,800 --> 00:28:19,479 Speaker 1: translate the world in any other way then creatively, And 475 00:28:19,560 --> 00:28:22,760 Speaker 1: so this is what I've got right now. I have 476 00:28:23,040 --> 00:28:27,040 Speaker 1: a very special brother who was now dead because of 477 00:28:27,080 --> 00:28:28,919 Speaker 1: this thing, and I know a lot of people are 478 00:28:28,920 --> 00:28:33,720 Speaker 1: in that same boat. And like I'm also like an activist. 479 00:28:33,760 --> 00:28:36,640 Speaker 1: So it's like, Okay, well how can we make this better? 480 00:28:36,680 --> 00:28:40,040 Speaker 1: Because like what we're doing right now ain't working. And 481 00:28:40,440 --> 00:28:43,880 Speaker 1: so a lot of this like fuel of um, like 482 00:28:43,960 --> 00:28:47,120 Speaker 1: for me, like pain, there's a lot of fuel around pain. 483 00:28:47,200 --> 00:28:48,800 Speaker 1: I think a lot of artists probably feel that way, 484 00:28:48,840 --> 00:28:54,240 Speaker 1: like um, tragedy leads to like a lot of stuff, 485 00:28:54,320 --> 00:28:56,880 Speaker 1: you know. It's like I I can take that and 486 00:28:56,920 --> 00:28:59,560 Speaker 1: process it in a way that I think, I don't know, 487 00:28:59,640 --> 00:29:02,880 Speaker 1: like I guess just creatively basically. And so I think 488 00:29:03,880 --> 00:29:05,080 Speaker 1: it was like this thing I was like, all right, well, 489 00:29:05,160 --> 00:29:07,440 Speaker 1: let's let's just do it. And and so we made 490 00:29:07,440 --> 00:29:09,520 Speaker 1: that show, and then now we're on our fifth show, 491 00:29:09,560 --> 00:29:10,840 Speaker 1: and we have a six show in the works, and 492 00:29:10,880 --> 00:29:12,440 Speaker 1: then we're going to be doing a seventh show. And 493 00:29:12,480 --> 00:29:15,120 Speaker 1: so it's like it's just been this and our whole 494 00:29:15,160 --> 00:29:19,480 Speaker 1: tagline of our company is Humanity Unfiltered. We'll be back 495 00:29:19,520 --> 00:29:28,479 Speaker 1: in a moment with more family secrets. I think, you know, 496 00:29:28,680 --> 00:29:31,360 Speaker 1: we we we live or we have certainly been living 497 00:29:31,400 --> 00:29:34,240 Speaker 1: in a culture, in a society where, um, we love 498 00:29:34,280 --> 00:29:37,280 Speaker 1: our definitions, you know, we love our baskets of like oh, 499 00:29:37,360 --> 00:29:39,080 Speaker 1: you know, you're this kind of person or you do 500 00:29:39,200 --> 00:29:42,240 Speaker 1: this thing, or you're you know, you can't possibly both 501 00:29:42,280 --> 00:29:45,640 Speaker 1: have tragedy and be a funny person or um, you know, 502 00:29:45,920 --> 00:29:49,240 Speaker 1: and and and like how about instead of you know, 503 00:29:49,560 --> 00:29:52,520 Speaker 1: or you know, sort of switching the conversation to end, 504 00:29:52,840 --> 00:29:55,920 Speaker 1: you know, like this is I mean, last day is 505 00:29:56,560 --> 00:29:59,280 Speaker 1: there's you know, in just about every episode at some 506 00:29:59,360 --> 00:30:03,520 Speaker 1: point you laugh, you know, and you know, there's it's 507 00:30:03,560 --> 00:30:07,680 Speaker 1: it's it's very heavy stuff obviously, but there's also I 508 00:30:07,720 --> 00:30:09,760 Speaker 1: think just you know, all of these different shades and 509 00:30:09,840 --> 00:30:14,480 Speaker 1: colors to every experience, and um, you know, the whole 510 00:30:14,520 --> 00:30:18,080 Speaker 1: idea of UM. You know, I mean I think in 511 00:30:18,160 --> 00:30:22,600 Speaker 1: my own life, just about everything of import that's ever happened, UM, 512 00:30:23,800 --> 00:30:27,520 Speaker 1: or anything that that has sort of shaped my life, 513 00:30:27,600 --> 00:30:31,560 Speaker 1: like ultimately in a really um positive way, has been 514 00:30:31,640 --> 00:30:34,800 Speaker 1: like a kind of a happy accident. Who knows which 515 00:30:34,840 --> 00:30:38,880 Speaker 1: comes first? UM. I mean, you know, I lost my 516 00:30:38,920 --> 00:30:42,040 Speaker 1: father when I was twenty three in a car accident, 517 00:30:42,600 --> 00:30:47,440 Speaker 1: and like that shaped my life from that moment forward. 518 00:30:47,760 --> 00:30:49,760 Speaker 1: I would not be sitting here talking to you. I 519 00:30:49,760 --> 00:30:52,360 Speaker 1: wouldn't be living in this house. I wouldn't be in 520 00:30:52,400 --> 00:30:55,280 Speaker 1: my basement, you know, making a podcast. I wouldn't have 521 00:30:55,280 --> 00:30:57,640 Speaker 1: written ten books. I wouldn't be married to the man 522 00:30:57,720 --> 00:30:59,880 Speaker 1: I married to. I wouldn't have the child that I do. 523 00:31:00,280 --> 00:31:03,160 Speaker 1: If that tragedy hadn't happened, my my life would have 524 00:31:03,200 --> 00:31:07,040 Speaker 1: just spun in a different direction. And we're like we're 525 00:31:07,120 --> 00:31:12,680 Speaker 1: chiseled and we're shaped by everything, um that happens to 526 00:31:12,800 --> 00:31:16,040 Speaker 1: us and UM, and I just feel that so strongly. 527 00:31:16,080 --> 00:31:18,560 Speaker 1: It's just a sense of like what do we what 528 00:31:18,600 --> 00:31:20,760 Speaker 1: do we make of it? And so you know now 529 00:31:20,800 --> 00:31:23,880 Speaker 1: that we're in this collective place, all of us, you know, 530 00:31:23,960 --> 00:31:27,560 Speaker 1: so for those of us who have had you know, 531 00:31:27,640 --> 00:31:30,680 Speaker 1: really hard, difficult things happen. Um. It sort of feels 532 00:31:30,720 --> 00:31:32,160 Speaker 1: like I look at some of my friends who have 533 00:31:32,200 --> 00:31:34,240 Speaker 1: had I don't know, let's just say an easier time 534 00:31:34,280 --> 00:31:35,920 Speaker 1: of it. Nobody has an easy time of it. It's 535 00:31:35,920 --> 00:31:38,080 Speaker 1: hard to be human, but let's just say an easier 536 00:31:38,120 --> 00:31:41,520 Speaker 1: time and I and it's like they almost don't have 537 00:31:41,600 --> 00:31:45,080 Speaker 1: the muscles for what's happening in the world right now. 538 00:31:45,480 --> 00:31:49,360 Speaker 1: Like it's, um, it's like, wait a minute, this isn't fair, 539 00:31:49,680 --> 00:31:52,720 Speaker 1: you know, or you know that this is this is 540 00:31:52,720 --> 00:31:57,160 Speaker 1: really disrupted my plans. It's like yeah, because that's what 541 00:31:57,440 --> 00:31:59,880 Speaker 1: you know. Life comes along, it disrupts your plans, you know. 542 00:32:00,200 --> 00:32:03,600 Speaker 1: And I guess I'm wondering, like what I just want 543 00:32:03,600 --> 00:32:08,400 Speaker 1: to leave people today with just a feeling of like, 544 00:32:08,480 --> 00:32:11,920 Speaker 1: what's what's helping right now? Like what what are the 545 00:32:12,040 --> 00:32:15,080 Speaker 1: things that you know, We're probably in this for a while, 546 00:32:15,240 --> 00:32:17,960 Speaker 1: you know, in our in our homes, you know, in 547 00:32:17,960 --> 00:32:22,240 Speaker 1: our communities. Um, with this sort of relentless stream of news. Um, 548 00:32:22,280 --> 00:32:25,720 Speaker 1: with the great unknown, I would say, of you know, 549 00:32:25,760 --> 00:32:27,920 Speaker 1: what is the world going to look like when we 550 00:32:28,480 --> 00:32:30,880 Speaker 1: pick up our handbags and put our shoes back on 551 00:32:30,920 --> 00:32:36,040 Speaker 1: and venture out into the world. Like um, the feral 552 00:32:36,160 --> 00:32:39,680 Speaker 1: creatures that we've become like like. I think one of 553 00:32:39,680 --> 00:32:42,720 Speaker 1: the hardest things for many many of us, me included, 554 00:32:43,200 --> 00:32:46,120 Speaker 1: is that level of unknown. You know, what what are 555 00:32:46,240 --> 00:32:48,880 Speaker 1: things gonna what are things gonna look like and be 556 00:32:49,000 --> 00:32:51,120 Speaker 1: like and feel like? And since we can't know that, 557 00:32:51,400 --> 00:32:54,360 Speaker 1: how do we, uh, you know, how do we how 558 00:32:54,360 --> 00:33:00,160 Speaker 1: do we move through our days? Um? And um? You know, 559 00:33:00,880 --> 00:33:03,560 Speaker 1: there's there's a lot of pressure I think too. On Twitter. 560 00:33:03,600 --> 00:33:05,600 Speaker 1: There are a lot of people in you know, my world, 561 00:33:05,640 --> 00:33:07,959 Speaker 1: the literary world, you know, saying things like, well, you know, 562 00:33:08,200 --> 00:33:12,160 Speaker 1: Shakespeare wrote kingly or during a quarantine, no pressure or anything, 563 00:33:12,320 --> 00:33:14,000 Speaker 1: or you know, I'm gonna learn how to bake the 564 00:33:14,000 --> 00:33:18,160 Speaker 1: perfect cola or I'm gonna, like, you know, learn Italian um. 565 00:33:18,240 --> 00:33:20,200 Speaker 1: And I think that puts an awful lot of pressure 566 00:33:20,360 --> 00:33:24,560 Speaker 1: on people to feel like we have to do something 567 00:33:24,600 --> 00:33:27,200 Speaker 1: with this time that's external, you know, that's sort of 568 00:33:27,480 --> 00:33:31,240 Speaker 1: results driven. Do any thoughts about that? I mean, that's 569 00:33:31,840 --> 00:33:35,560 Speaker 1: that's certainly how I'm wired, and I think a lot 570 00:33:35,640 --> 00:33:37,479 Speaker 1: of people are wired that way, that we need to 571 00:33:37,680 --> 00:33:40,920 Speaker 1: do something with our time. We can't just be where 572 00:33:41,000 --> 00:33:43,960 Speaker 1: we are. I mean, this was the whole conversation I 573 00:33:44,000 --> 00:33:49,080 Speaker 1: had with with Dr Mante. You know, I I I work, 574 00:33:49,320 --> 00:33:51,280 Speaker 1: I work, work, work, work, work, work work. I work 575 00:33:51,360 --> 00:33:53,840 Speaker 1: my way out of every painful feeling that I have, 576 00:33:54,120 --> 00:33:56,760 Speaker 1: you know. So it's like, on one level, I had 577 00:33:56,760 --> 00:33:59,600 Speaker 1: this idea that like pouring my heart out was how 578 00:33:59,640 --> 00:34:02,280 Speaker 1: I is becoming human again. But I think he would 579 00:34:02,280 --> 00:34:06,520 Speaker 1: shape it a little bit differently in terms of like addictions, 580 00:34:06,600 --> 00:34:09,600 Speaker 1: whatever they are, you know, whether they be socially acceptable 581 00:34:09,719 --> 00:34:11,640 Speaker 1: or not socially acceptable, are things that we do to 582 00:34:11,800 --> 00:34:16,920 Speaker 1: feel better in some capacity, right, So to calm yourself, 583 00:34:16,960 --> 00:34:21,200 Speaker 1: to find inner peace, to uh feel happy, to feel normal, 584 00:34:21,320 --> 00:34:24,960 Speaker 1: quote unquote, Um, we all do our little things that 585 00:34:24,960 --> 00:34:26,920 Speaker 1: that fill us up. You know. You don't do an 586 00:34:26,920 --> 00:34:29,160 Speaker 1: addiction because it feels bad. You do it because it 587 00:34:29,200 --> 00:34:32,240 Speaker 1: feels good. Right. And that was a really interesting shift 588 00:34:32,320 --> 00:34:36,400 Speaker 1: that I made with him in that conversation. Um, and 589 00:34:36,440 --> 00:34:38,400 Speaker 1: so I think right now, when people are so desperate, 590 00:34:38,440 --> 00:34:41,839 Speaker 1: like as a person who who works my way out 591 00:34:41,840 --> 00:34:44,040 Speaker 1: of things, I have that sensation like, well I should 592 00:34:44,040 --> 00:34:47,319 Speaker 1: be writing king Lear, you know, I should, you know, 593 00:34:47,480 --> 00:34:50,319 Speaker 1: And I I mean totally like it's it's a it's 594 00:34:50,320 --> 00:34:53,920 Speaker 1: a really um and it's and again it's socially acceptable 595 00:34:53,960 --> 00:34:56,400 Speaker 1: to do that. You know. It's like, well then, but 596 00:34:56,600 --> 00:34:59,600 Speaker 1: king lear is good. People produce it like that, Why 597 00:34:59,600 --> 00:35:01,400 Speaker 1: would that be of that thing? And I was like, 598 00:35:01,480 --> 00:35:03,160 Speaker 1: you know, I wrote a book in nine months because 599 00:35:03,200 --> 00:35:05,759 Speaker 1: I was grief stricken. You know, here's my book, you know. 600 00:35:05,840 --> 00:35:08,960 Speaker 1: And it's like, yes, that is good in a way, 601 00:35:09,000 --> 00:35:12,839 Speaker 1: but what are you not addressing by filling that up 602 00:35:12,880 --> 00:35:15,040 Speaker 1: with writing a book? You know? And I think that 603 00:35:15,920 --> 00:35:21,960 Speaker 1: that that's an interesting thing. Like I think um leaning 604 00:35:22,080 --> 00:35:28,400 Speaker 1: into the fact that like it does feel uncomfortable to 605 00:35:28,480 --> 00:35:31,360 Speaker 1: live in the unknown, like, but also accepting that that 606 00:35:31,520 --> 00:35:33,200 Speaker 1: is just where we all live. I think that's the 607 00:35:33,239 --> 00:35:37,120 Speaker 1: other thing that's happening is that actually every single moment 608 00:35:37,200 --> 00:35:39,440 Speaker 1: of our lives we are living in the unknown. We 609 00:35:39,560 --> 00:35:42,440 Speaker 1: just are able to like schedule ourselves like crazy people 610 00:35:42,640 --> 00:35:45,680 Speaker 1: and fill our days up with things and put all 611 00:35:45,719 --> 00:35:48,239 Speaker 1: these tasks on the calendar. But ultimately, like you could 612 00:35:48,280 --> 00:35:50,160 Speaker 1: walk outside and get hit by a bus. You know, 613 00:35:50,239 --> 00:35:53,040 Speaker 1: you don't, you don't, you don't know what's going to happen. 614 00:35:53,160 --> 00:35:55,359 Speaker 1: I mean, you just said this thing about your father, 615 00:35:55,520 --> 00:35:58,279 Speaker 1: Like your father did not expect to get up that 616 00:35:58,400 --> 00:36:01,480 Speaker 1: day and for that to be his last day. You know. 617 00:36:02,080 --> 00:36:04,359 Speaker 1: That's I mean, that's what I think about with the show. 618 00:36:04,400 --> 00:36:07,520 Speaker 1: It's like the whole last day concept is like exploring 619 00:36:07,640 --> 00:36:12,680 Speaker 1: that moment where you woke up that morning and you 620 00:36:12,719 --> 00:36:14,560 Speaker 1: were a person on the earth, and then later that 621 00:36:14,680 --> 00:36:17,399 Speaker 1: day you were not, and like what led to that? 622 00:36:17,520 --> 00:36:21,120 Speaker 1: You know, and we are all so vulnerable to that, 623 00:36:21,200 --> 00:36:24,560 Speaker 1: but we don't acknowledge it because it's too hard, it's 624 00:36:24,600 --> 00:36:27,319 Speaker 1: too scary to acknowledge it. Well, there's there's right, It's like, 625 00:36:27,320 --> 00:36:30,000 Speaker 1: there's this fine line right between if you if you 626 00:36:30,160 --> 00:36:32,799 Speaker 1: lived with that at the at the front of your 627 00:36:32,880 --> 00:36:35,400 Speaker 1: foreknowledge about everything, you'd never get out of bed in 628 00:36:35,440 --> 00:36:38,080 Speaker 1: the morning, you know, exact can't we? We can't we. 629 00:36:38,239 --> 00:36:41,520 Speaker 1: You wouldn't have children, you wouldn't write, you wouldn't make anything, 630 00:36:41,560 --> 00:36:43,600 Speaker 1: because what's the point. You know? We never know, right, 631 00:36:44,280 --> 00:36:47,160 Speaker 1: you know? And and also the sheer paralysis of like 632 00:36:47,520 --> 00:36:49,120 Speaker 1: you know, I think of that sometimes it's like standing 633 00:36:49,120 --> 00:36:50,520 Speaker 1: on the street corners, like wait a minute, if I 634 00:36:50,520 --> 00:36:53,160 Speaker 1: turn left, you know, this might happen. But if I 635 00:36:53,200 --> 00:36:56,080 Speaker 1: turn right, then that might happen. Um, oh my god, 636 00:36:56,080 --> 00:36:57,319 Speaker 1: I don't know what to do because I know what's 637 00:36:57,320 --> 00:36:59,520 Speaker 1: going to happen depending on which direction I walk in, 638 00:37:00,120 --> 00:37:02,680 Speaker 1: so there would be this incredible paralysis that sets in. 639 00:37:03,280 --> 00:37:07,440 Speaker 1: And we use business right and and like me too, 640 00:37:07,520 --> 00:37:10,520 Speaker 1: I mean I literally on this day that you and 641 00:37:10,520 --> 00:37:13,640 Speaker 1: I are speaking today is a whatever day of the 642 00:37:13,640 --> 00:37:16,840 Speaker 1: week it is no longer matters. So whatever day of 643 00:37:16,840 --> 00:37:19,280 Speaker 1: the week it did, I was like I was supposed 644 00:37:19,280 --> 00:37:21,600 Speaker 1: to be in Italy directing a writer's conference. In the 645 00:37:21,600 --> 00:37:23,280 Speaker 1: week before that, I was supposed to be in Paris 646 00:37:23,320 --> 00:37:25,640 Speaker 1: on my French book tour. And the week before that, 647 00:37:25,719 --> 00:37:30,440 Speaker 1: literally I supposed to be in Colorado and uh somewhere else, 648 00:37:30,480 --> 00:37:34,640 Speaker 1: somewhere in Texas, um and like all of a sudden, 649 00:37:35,239 --> 00:37:40,120 Speaker 1: everything San Antonio, everything started being canceled, canceled, canceled, canceled, canceled, 650 00:37:40,400 --> 00:37:43,040 Speaker 1: and I would white out in my old fashioned pile 651 00:37:43,080 --> 00:37:44,919 Speaker 1: of sacks, which I actually use. I just can't bring 652 00:37:44,920 --> 00:37:47,000 Speaker 1: myself to use that eye calendar, and I would actually 653 00:37:47,040 --> 00:37:49,200 Speaker 1: like white it out because I can't stand looking at 654 00:37:49,200 --> 00:37:52,440 Speaker 1: things scribbled out is just way too messy from my 655 00:37:52,640 --> 00:37:56,440 Speaker 1: like sort of compulsive, you know, sort of you know 656 00:37:57,080 --> 00:38:02,040 Speaker 1: neat nick brain, how you how you exercise control, everything 657 00:38:02,040 --> 00:38:06,320 Speaker 1: needs to be So suddenly had all these blank white pages, 658 00:38:06,960 --> 00:38:11,640 Speaker 1: and we all do. It's like it's no matter how 659 00:38:11,680 --> 00:38:16,759 Speaker 1: busy we can be in our lives, even you and 660 00:38:16,800 --> 00:38:19,440 Speaker 1: I are still both people who are able to do 661 00:38:19,520 --> 00:38:22,880 Speaker 1: what we do work wise, you know, from our closets 662 00:38:22,880 --> 00:38:26,879 Speaker 1: and our basis um And you know, many people are um, 663 00:38:26,920 --> 00:38:28,920 Speaker 1: you know, sort of not able to do that, and 664 00:38:28,920 --> 00:38:32,319 Speaker 1: they're struggling in different ways, but it's still impossible to 665 00:38:32,360 --> 00:38:35,520 Speaker 1: maintain the pace because it's been taken away from us. 666 00:38:35,880 --> 00:38:40,560 Speaker 1: I agree. I Actually it's funny because like with Last Day, 667 00:38:40,640 --> 00:38:45,239 Speaker 1: we we explore this first season, we're exploring addiction, and 668 00:38:45,320 --> 00:38:48,120 Speaker 1: so we've had to really dive deep into this idea 669 00:38:48,280 --> 00:38:51,319 Speaker 1: of one day at a time, you know, like this 670 00:38:52,800 --> 00:38:59,239 Speaker 1: this recovery mantra of like how do you live in recovery? 671 00:38:59,400 --> 00:39:02,440 Speaker 1: You know? And I go through this whole thing in 672 00:39:02,440 --> 00:39:04,640 Speaker 1: the podcast, like my mom had this needle pointed thing 673 00:39:04,719 --> 00:39:06,799 Speaker 1: that used to hang over my brother's head when we 674 00:39:06,800 --> 00:39:09,200 Speaker 1: were growing up at the dinner table, and it was 675 00:39:09,239 --> 00:39:12,200 Speaker 1: like the serenity prayer. And I looked at that thing 676 00:39:12,440 --> 00:39:15,600 Speaker 1: every single day of my life as a child and 677 00:39:15,640 --> 00:39:17,880 Speaker 1: as a teenager, and I never really understood what it 678 00:39:17,920 --> 00:39:21,040 Speaker 1: meant until, you know, like my daughter was born, and 679 00:39:21,080 --> 00:39:23,160 Speaker 1: my brother went through this and then he died, and 680 00:39:23,160 --> 00:39:25,360 Speaker 1: and and like having to sort of like keep going. 681 00:39:25,520 --> 00:39:30,720 Speaker 1: And when your world is sort of like thrust upside down, 682 00:39:31,400 --> 00:39:34,280 Speaker 1: I think like the only thing that you can do 683 00:39:34,480 --> 00:39:36,880 Speaker 1: is to accept, like, hey, you know, this is what 684 00:39:36,920 --> 00:39:39,360 Speaker 1: they tell you right in recovery, like I am powerless, 685 00:39:39,840 --> 00:39:43,719 Speaker 1: and um, I have to surrender to that. And the 686 00:39:43,760 --> 00:39:46,160 Speaker 1: only thing I can do is to look right in 687 00:39:46,200 --> 00:39:47,919 Speaker 1: front of me and to live one day at a time, 688 00:39:47,960 --> 00:39:49,520 Speaker 1: you know. And we had this guest towards the end 689 00:39:49,520 --> 00:39:52,480 Speaker 1: of the season. He was like, if I it's like 690 00:39:52,480 --> 00:39:54,720 Speaker 1: if you're driving a car and you look too far ahead, 691 00:39:55,040 --> 00:39:56,919 Speaker 1: you know, you'll crash. If you look too far behind, 692 00:39:57,000 --> 00:39:58,719 Speaker 1: you'll crash. You have to kind of be right where 693 00:39:58,719 --> 00:40:02,600 Speaker 1: you are on the road. And I think that is 694 00:40:02,719 --> 00:40:05,600 Speaker 1: truly our only option right now. It's just that when 695 00:40:05,680 --> 00:40:08,120 Speaker 1: you are living one day at a time, it is 696 00:40:08,160 --> 00:40:11,840 Speaker 1: so unfamiliar to so many of us because we we 697 00:40:11,960 --> 00:40:14,400 Speaker 1: do cling to those like future trips and future plans 698 00:40:14,400 --> 00:40:16,200 Speaker 1: and what's going on tomorrow, what's happening on our phones, 699 00:40:16,280 --> 00:40:20,920 Speaker 1: and and I think like it's a challenge, but I 700 00:40:20,960 --> 00:40:24,600 Speaker 1: also think it might be the reset that many of 701 00:40:24,680 --> 00:40:27,600 Speaker 1: us need and this in this moment, like I feel, 702 00:40:28,760 --> 00:40:30,960 Speaker 1: and it's so slippery because then you start to get 703 00:40:30,960 --> 00:40:33,239 Speaker 1: into these like really annoying cliches about like yeah, but 704 00:40:33,239 --> 00:40:34,680 Speaker 1: we're just like living in the moment where like with 705 00:40:34,719 --> 00:40:36,399 Speaker 1: our families and that's so special and I don't want 706 00:40:36,440 --> 00:40:38,919 Speaker 1: to do that because like a lot of this does 707 00:40:39,040 --> 00:40:41,400 Speaker 1: truly suck. Like I found out yesterday my kids are 708 00:40:41,440 --> 00:40:44,880 Speaker 1: off until like May ten now, and I'm like, what 709 00:40:45,320 --> 00:40:49,200 Speaker 1: am I? Like, they're six and two? How do I 710 00:40:49,200 --> 00:40:52,000 Speaker 1: I'm like dying here, you know, But like I will 711 00:40:52,040 --> 00:40:56,319 Speaker 1: tell you my daughter and I yesterday when and did 712 00:40:56,320 --> 00:40:59,800 Speaker 1: this whole like scavenger hunt outside and like we walked 713 00:40:59,800 --> 00:41:01,400 Speaker 1: around on together and we found out these objects and 714 00:41:01,440 --> 00:41:02,799 Speaker 1: then we came home and we set up like our 715 00:41:02,840 --> 00:41:05,279 Speaker 1: blanket in the backyard and we all worked from outside, 716 00:41:05,320 --> 00:41:08,640 Speaker 1: and I mean we are together, like that is something 717 00:41:08,680 --> 00:41:13,640 Speaker 1: that I I I never would have expected. And I'm 718 00:41:13,680 --> 00:41:17,239 Speaker 1: spending more actual quality time with these people that I 719 00:41:17,280 --> 00:41:20,000 Speaker 1: love more than anyone, that we say, we say that 720 00:41:20,040 --> 00:41:21,920 Speaker 1: they matter more than anyone. And I remember when my 721 00:41:21,960 --> 00:41:24,799 Speaker 1: brother died, I was like I would give anything, I 722 00:41:24,800 --> 00:41:28,479 Speaker 1: would give my left leg if I could just see 723 00:41:28,560 --> 00:41:31,000 Speaker 1: him if I could like see his little like crooked 724 00:41:31,040 --> 00:41:32,600 Speaker 1: smile for one second, like if he could be in 725 00:41:32,680 --> 00:41:34,920 Speaker 1: front of me, Like that's all I want. And like 726 00:41:35,000 --> 00:41:37,479 Speaker 1: here we have these people that we say we feel 727 00:41:37,520 --> 00:41:39,239 Speaker 1: that way about, but when we're in life, we're like 728 00:41:39,280 --> 00:41:41,239 Speaker 1: tuning them out because we have all this other ship 729 00:41:41,280 --> 00:41:44,799 Speaker 1: going on. And so I don't know, like you know 730 00:41:44,840 --> 00:41:48,399 Speaker 1: what I'm saying, No, I really do. And I think, Look, 731 00:41:48,480 --> 00:41:52,760 Speaker 1: my son is twenty and uh he's a sophomore in college, 732 00:41:53,000 --> 00:41:56,640 Speaker 1: and um, you know, we don't we don't spend you 733 00:41:56,680 --> 00:41:59,440 Speaker 1: know that kind of I mean the kind of time 734 00:41:59,440 --> 00:42:02,759 Speaker 1: like he's he's now, like you know, he's here, he's 735 00:42:02,760 --> 00:42:05,920 Speaker 1: like he's living under my roof feet. We're together all 736 00:42:05,960 --> 00:42:09,560 Speaker 1: the time. We're watching movies together every night, we're cooking dinner. 737 00:42:09,600 --> 00:42:13,240 Speaker 1: And and I believe me, it's also like super challenging. 738 00:42:13,280 --> 00:42:14,960 Speaker 1: I have this like you know, big hairy man in 739 00:42:15,000 --> 00:42:19,239 Speaker 1: my house all the time now. But just wait, but 740 00:42:20,000 --> 00:42:22,239 Speaker 1: there's you know, I turned in the other day and 741 00:42:22,280 --> 00:42:25,440 Speaker 1: I said, we are never going to have this kind 742 00:42:25,440 --> 00:42:29,440 Speaker 1: of time together ever again in our lives. Like and 743 00:42:29,440 --> 00:42:32,839 Speaker 1: and I do think you know we will all we're 744 00:42:32,840 --> 00:42:35,080 Speaker 1: all we're all going through something collectively and we'll all 745 00:42:35,120 --> 00:42:39,080 Speaker 1: look back at it, you know, on this time, um 746 00:42:39,160 --> 00:42:41,080 Speaker 1: that you know, we're just like in this moment in 747 00:42:41,200 --> 00:42:44,640 Speaker 1: history that is this time. I mean, I'm someone who thinks, 748 00:42:45,120 --> 00:42:48,040 Speaker 1: I you know, I've always thought that if I can 749 00:42:48,120 --> 00:42:50,239 Speaker 1: think it, then it won't happen. So I'll think of 750 00:42:50,320 --> 00:42:53,959 Speaker 1: all the all the possibilities, all the things that could 751 00:42:53,960 --> 00:42:57,360 Speaker 1: possibly go wrong. I never thought pandemic like it just 752 00:42:57,440 --> 00:42:59,880 Speaker 1: wasn't on my list. It was not not on my 753 00:43:00,040 --> 00:43:03,400 Speaker 1: list of of terrifying things. And now we are living 754 00:43:03,400 --> 00:43:08,200 Speaker 1: through it, and I think whether it's you know, a 755 00:43:08,280 --> 00:43:10,600 Speaker 1: year from now or a decade from now, um, in 756 00:43:10,719 --> 00:43:13,120 Speaker 1: terms of just like any kind of perspective on it, 757 00:43:13,320 --> 00:43:16,640 Speaker 1: we'll look back and have have that feeling of like 758 00:43:16,960 --> 00:43:20,880 Speaker 1: that that changed us, and that that that brought us together, 759 00:43:20,920 --> 00:43:23,600 Speaker 1: that pulled us apart, whatever it did that that changed 760 00:43:23,640 --> 00:43:27,760 Speaker 1: this city or this country or this industry, um, whatever 761 00:43:27,800 --> 00:43:30,239 Speaker 1: it is. But um, but yeah, I think we do. 762 00:43:30,280 --> 00:43:32,400 Speaker 1: We do wish away whatever is right in front of us, 763 00:43:32,800 --> 00:43:36,160 Speaker 1: especially especially with little kids. You know, that feeling like 764 00:43:36,239 --> 00:43:39,479 Speaker 1: you know, just the what's the expression that the days 765 00:43:39,480 --> 00:43:44,000 Speaker 1: are long, the years are short? Yes exactly? I mean, yeah, 766 00:43:44,040 --> 00:43:47,120 Speaker 1: like we we're joking like we're trapped with a terrorist. 767 00:43:47,160 --> 00:43:51,320 Speaker 1: My my son, my sweet beautiful little boy, has turned 768 00:43:51,360 --> 00:43:56,080 Speaker 1: into a full blown toddler during quarantine. Like he is 769 00:43:56,200 --> 00:43:59,760 Speaker 1: just leaning right into hair pulling and biting and jumping 770 00:43:59,800 --> 00:44:02,040 Speaker 1: on urniture and trying to dive off of things. And 771 00:44:02,080 --> 00:44:05,200 Speaker 1: I mean he was just like this little, sweet little cherub. 772 00:44:05,200 --> 00:44:07,800 Speaker 1: But now I'm like, what has happened to you? And 773 00:44:08,640 --> 00:44:11,359 Speaker 1: it's like, you know, you want to like, Okay, go nap, 774 00:44:11,440 --> 00:44:13,640 Speaker 1: go to bed because I need a break, but like 775 00:44:13,680 --> 00:44:15,319 Speaker 1: he's never gonna be this little bitty thing. And I 776 00:44:15,320 --> 00:44:16,759 Speaker 1: show I'm like, sure you have a big hairy man 777 00:44:16,800 --> 00:44:19,080 Speaker 1: in your house. I'm sure you would love to just 778 00:44:19,120 --> 00:44:22,000 Speaker 1: like have that little toddler back, you know. So I 779 00:44:22,040 --> 00:44:24,080 Speaker 1: think there is this balance we have to strike of 780 00:44:24,160 --> 00:44:26,400 Speaker 1: like acknowledging that like, yes, there are parts of this 781 00:44:26,480 --> 00:44:29,239 Speaker 1: that really do suck and that are terrible, and there's 782 00:44:29,280 --> 00:44:31,839 Speaker 1: also the very real part of like people are going 783 00:44:31,880 --> 00:44:34,600 Speaker 1: to die and that is also like horrific. But I 784 00:44:34,640 --> 00:44:37,239 Speaker 1: don't think we have even begun to embrace that, you know, 785 00:44:37,360 --> 00:44:40,800 Speaker 1: that aspect that like we are in this position because 786 00:44:40,800 --> 00:44:43,759 Speaker 1: there is a really deadly disease, you know, and and 787 00:44:43,800 --> 00:44:45,920 Speaker 1: so there's that aspect, and then there's this other aspect 788 00:44:45,960 --> 00:44:47,839 Speaker 1: of like we have to keep going somehow, and so 789 00:44:47,920 --> 00:44:50,200 Speaker 1: maybe the way to do that is to lean into 790 00:44:51,200 --> 00:44:55,040 Speaker 1: those relationships, right and like to just like devour them 791 00:44:55,360 --> 00:45:00,160 Speaker 1: while we can, you know. And um, however, schmalty that sounds, 792 00:45:00,960 --> 00:45:03,200 Speaker 1: I think, and I'm saying it as a glass half 793 00:45:03,200 --> 00:45:06,839 Speaker 1: empty kind of gal. I think that that's where I 794 00:45:06,840 --> 00:45:10,759 Speaker 1: am trying to put my energy. I think that that 795 00:45:10,920 --> 00:45:14,680 Speaker 1: is a beautiful way to wrap this up with that. 796 00:45:14,800 --> 00:45:19,160 Speaker 1: Thank you, a perfect, perfect degree of glass half empty schmaltz. 797 00:45:19,280 --> 00:45:24,279 Speaker 1: I love it. What a wonderful conversation, and and I'm 798 00:45:24,280 --> 00:45:28,239 Speaker 1: going to be listening avidly for uh season two of 799 00:45:28,360 --> 00:45:31,160 Speaker 1: Last Day. And I love the work you're doing and 800 00:45:31,480 --> 00:45:33,800 Speaker 1: the meaning that you're making of out of your life. 801 00:45:34,880 --> 00:45:37,719 Speaker 1: Thank you. I had such a lovely time talking to 802 00:45:37,719 --> 00:45:41,359 Speaker 1: you today in my closet. It was truly like a 803 00:45:41,360 --> 00:45:43,840 Speaker 1: wonderful way to spend an hour and a half a quarantine. 804 00:45:43,960 --> 00:45:47,160 Speaker 1: So um, thank you, thank you, thank you for having 805 00:45:47,160 --> 00:45:49,000 Speaker 1: me on, and thank you for all the great work 806 00:45:49,040 --> 00:45:50,800 Speaker 1: that you're putting out in the world as well. Thanks 807 00:45:50,920 --> 00:46:12,040 Speaker 1: be well, all right byebye m H For more podcasts, 808 00:46:12,040 --> 00:46:14,359 Speaker 1: for my heart Radio, visit the I heart Radio app, 809 00:46:14,400 --> 00:46:17,440 Speaker 1: Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.