1 00:00:27,720 --> 00:00:33,840 Speaker 1: Take a deep breath in through your no else hold 2 00:00:33,920 --> 00:00:39,680 Speaker 1: it now. Release slowly. 3 00:00:43,320 --> 00:00:51,800 Speaker 2: Again, deep in heale. 4 00:00:50,880 --> 00:00:52,480 Speaker 1: Hold. 5 00:00:55,840 --> 00:01:07,720 Speaker 2: Release, repeating internally to yourself as you connect to my voice. 6 00:01:07,959 --> 00:01:19,360 Speaker 2: I am deeply, deeply well. I I am deeply well. 7 00:01:22,080 --> 00:01:25,000 Speaker 2: I am deeply. 8 00:01:26,880 --> 00:01:27,080 Speaker 1: Well. 9 00:01:30,400 --> 00:01:41,560 Speaker 2: I'm Debbie Brown and this is the Deeply Well Podcast. Hi, 10 00:01:41,680 --> 00:01:45,199 Speaker 2: I'm Debbie Brown. Welcome to Deeply Well, a soft place 11 00:01:45,240 --> 00:01:48,000 Speaker 2: to land in your journey. This is a podcast for 12 00:01:48,080 --> 00:01:51,560 Speaker 2: the curious and the creative that are ready to expand 13 00:01:51,600 --> 00:01:54,800 Speaker 2: in their journey of higher consciousness and self care. This 14 00:01:54,880 --> 00:01:58,200 Speaker 2: is where you feel, This is where you become Welcome 15 00:01:58,280 --> 00:02:01,920 Speaker 2: to the show. This episode, I know, is going to 16 00:02:02,440 --> 00:02:04,120 Speaker 2: blow all of us away. 17 00:02:04,440 --> 00:02:05,520 Speaker 1: Myself included. 18 00:02:06,120 --> 00:02:09,920 Speaker 2: We are going to be really approaching new territory in 19 00:02:09,919 --> 00:02:13,280 Speaker 2: this episode. Something that we have expanded in on this 20 00:02:13,400 --> 00:02:16,720 Speaker 2: show over the last few seasons is deepening our awareness 21 00:02:16,720 --> 00:02:20,240 Speaker 2: of trauma and the role that complex trauma can play 22 00:02:20,400 --> 00:02:22,560 Speaker 2: in our day to day life, on our spiritual journey 23 00:02:22,880 --> 00:02:25,360 Speaker 2: as adults. The way that it informs our parenthood, the 24 00:02:25,400 --> 00:02:28,600 Speaker 2: way that it informs the way we approach our purpose 25 00:02:28,760 --> 00:02:30,840 Speaker 2: or the work we do in the world, and the 26 00:02:30,880 --> 00:02:33,440 Speaker 2: way it informs the way we feel and see ourselves. 27 00:02:34,120 --> 00:02:37,440 Speaker 2: This episode, We're going to take that conversation a lot deeper, 28 00:02:37,919 --> 00:02:41,040 Speaker 2: and we are going to really unpack the way that 29 00:02:41,240 --> 00:02:45,639 Speaker 2: trauma expresses itself in children and ways that we can 30 00:02:45,800 --> 00:02:50,519 Speaker 2: really help our children heal in real time. I am 31 00:02:50,680 --> 00:02:54,560 Speaker 2: so excited about this episode, especially as a mother and 32 00:02:54,840 --> 00:02:57,639 Speaker 2: a big believer in the power of inner child healing 33 00:02:57,760 --> 00:03:02,600 Speaker 2: and reparenting. So this show, we have a very special 34 00:03:02,800 --> 00:03:07,679 Speaker 2: guest I would like to welcome Christine Mark Griffin. Christine 35 00:03:07,760 --> 00:03:11,120 Speaker 2: is the founder of spark All Wellness, a licensed clinical 36 00:03:11,240 --> 00:03:15,320 Speaker 2: social worker located in the San Francisco, California area, and 37 00:03:15,400 --> 00:03:20,040 Speaker 2: the author of the Incredible EMDR Workbook for Kids. She 38 00:03:20,120 --> 00:03:23,600 Speaker 2: has been working with children, youth, mothers, and families for 39 00:03:23,639 --> 00:03:27,600 Speaker 2: the past decade and a variety of capacities. Christine's social 40 00:03:27,600 --> 00:03:30,520 Speaker 2: work journey began as a mentor for at risk children 41 00:03:30,560 --> 00:03:34,200 Speaker 2: and youth and a mentoring program for survivors of domestic violence. 42 00:03:34,720 --> 00:03:40,080 Speaker 2: Over the years, Christine's professional experience has included working with children, adolescents, 43 00:03:40,120 --> 00:03:44,800 Speaker 2: and adults through child welfare, school based mental health programs, 44 00:03:44,840 --> 00:03:48,360 Speaker 2: and victims of crime programs. This has exposed her to 45 00:03:48,400 --> 00:03:53,560 Speaker 2: working with diverse populations dealing with various issues involving child maltreatment, 46 00:03:53,960 --> 00:03:58,520 Speaker 2: severe mental health, and complex trauma. Christine has a wealth 47 00:03:58,520 --> 00:04:01,840 Speaker 2: of knowledge and understanding to an array of challenges and 48 00:04:01,920 --> 00:04:06,400 Speaker 2: working with children and adolescents, including severe mental health, childhood 49 00:04:06,480 --> 00:04:12,880 Speaker 2: experienced trauma, sexual trauma, dual diagnosis, maternal mental health, learning disabilities, 50 00:04:13,280 --> 00:04:20,520 Speaker 2: substance abuse, substance exposure, juvenile delinquency, immigration, incarceration, commercial sexual 51 00:04:20,560 --> 00:04:26,159 Speaker 2: exploitation of children, domestic violence, gang violence, grief and loss, 52 00:04:27,000 --> 00:04:30,880 Speaker 2: attachment problems, post traumatic stress, and much more. 53 00:04:32,880 --> 00:04:38,800 Speaker 1: Wow. Christine uses strength based approach and works closely. 54 00:04:38,480 --> 00:04:42,320 Speaker 2: With clients to create an individualized plan to begin sparking 55 00:04:42,360 --> 00:04:46,280 Speaker 2: away towards wellness in a motivating and meaningful way. In 56 00:04:46,279 --> 00:04:50,440 Speaker 2: addition to providing therapy services in her private practice, Christine 57 00:04:50,480 --> 00:04:54,280 Speaker 2: is also a skilled trainer, lecture and consultant. As an 58 00:04:54,279 --> 00:04:58,760 Speaker 2: EMDR consultant who specializes in children, she provides a variety 59 00:04:58,800 --> 00:05:03,039 Speaker 2: of trainings and webinars on trauma EMDR related topics. She 60 00:05:03,160 --> 00:05:06,919 Speaker 2: has created and provided trainings for mental health professionals, educators, 61 00:05:06,960 --> 00:05:11,560 Speaker 2: school districts, nonprofit and professional organizations on topics such as 62 00:05:11,600 --> 00:05:20,599 Speaker 2: suicide prevention, mental health, mindfulness, trauma, self care, and building resiliency. Wow, Christine, 63 00:05:21,160 --> 00:05:23,680 Speaker 2: thank you for your work and welcome. 64 00:05:23,320 --> 00:05:26,600 Speaker 3: To the show. Wow having me, I'm so grateful to 65 00:05:26,640 --> 00:05:27,040 Speaker 3: be here. 66 00:05:28,080 --> 00:05:31,280 Speaker 2: I have I mean, I have chills all over just 67 00:05:31,440 --> 00:05:33,680 Speaker 2: reading through the work that you do in the world. 68 00:05:33,760 --> 00:05:36,560 Speaker 2: And the first thing that it kind of is telling 69 00:05:36,600 --> 00:05:39,440 Speaker 2: my body and my spirit is what a capacity you 70 00:05:39,640 --> 00:05:44,600 Speaker 2: have to hold this human experience? What a capacity you 71 00:05:44,680 --> 00:05:46,360 Speaker 2: have to help others heal? 72 00:05:47,520 --> 00:05:51,479 Speaker 3: Ooh yeah, I get that question a lot. I think 73 00:05:51,720 --> 00:05:53,560 Speaker 3: people ask how do you do it? Like, how do 74 00:05:53,560 --> 00:05:57,920 Speaker 3: you do this work? It's so I wouldn't be able 75 00:05:58,000 --> 00:06:00,760 Speaker 3: to do that, to just step into the dark side 76 00:06:00,920 --> 00:06:04,600 Speaker 3: of things each day. And what I say to that is, 77 00:06:07,279 --> 00:06:09,560 Speaker 3: while there is so much darkness and there is so 78 00:06:10,000 --> 00:06:14,960 Speaker 3: just horrific stories, just horrible stories that we hear from 79 00:06:15,160 --> 00:06:18,000 Speaker 3: our clients, from the little ones, the families that I've 80 00:06:18,080 --> 00:06:23,040 Speaker 3: worked with, there's also so much light. There's so much resilience. 81 00:06:23,279 --> 00:06:28,200 Speaker 3: And to watch that, to watch people grow through it, 82 00:06:29,240 --> 00:06:35,960 Speaker 3: work through it, expand and just move forward and find 83 00:06:36,040 --> 00:06:39,239 Speaker 3: meaning from Okay, maybe this was supposed to happen. Maybe 84 00:06:39,279 --> 00:06:43,040 Speaker 3: this taught me something in some way, And that's so 85 00:06:43,080 --> 00:06:46,240 Speaker 3: beautiful to see. And I think that's that's the driver 86 00:06:46,440 --> 00:06:49,560 Speaker 3: for this work, just to see that beauty in some 87 00:06:49,640 --> 00:06:51,120 Speaker 3: of those those places. 88 00:06:51,400 --> 00:06:59,600 Speaker 2: Ooh, ooh, ooh, chills, chills, chills, Christine, How did you 89 00:06:59,760 --> 00:07:02,400 Speaker 2: firm f find your way to this work? What was 90 00:07:02,440 --> 00:07:06,479 Speaker 2: your personal journey that led you to something that I mean, 91 00:07:06,480 --> 00:07:09,840 Speaker 2: it just it's requiring all of you in this lifetime, 92 00:07:10,520 --> 00:07:13,840 Speaker 2: and it's freeing people and children in a way that 93 00:07:14,200 --> 00:07:17,840 Speaker 2: humanity so desperately needs. 94 00:07:18,880 --> 00:07:20,080 Speaker 1: You know, I don't know. 95 00:07:20,240 --> 00:07:23,120 Speaker 3: When I was young, I thought I wanted to be 96 00:07:24,480 --> 00:07:26,320 Speaker 3: I thought I wanted to have a band. I thought 97 00:07:26,360 --> 00:07:29,560 Speaker 3: I wanted to be a fashion designer. I had these 98 00:07:29,560 --> 00:07:33,000 Speaker 3: big dreams that had nothing to do with therapy and 99 00:07:33,120 --> 00:07:35,960 Speaker 3: the trauma work that I do now. But one thing 100 00:07:36,000 --> 00:07:38,600 Speaker 3: I always knew is I always wanted to work with kids. 101 00:07:39,240 --> 00:07:43,560 Speaker 3: Just something about being able to play and play, pretend 102 00:07:43,760 --> 00:07:47,280 Speaker 3: and just always have that like childlike part of me 103 00:07:47,480 --> 00:07:51,120 Speaker 3: that I just love. And I'm so lucky that I 104 00:07:51,160 --> 00:07:55,400 Speaker 3: get to play so much in my practice with kids. 105 00:07:55,480 --> 00:08:00,640 Speaker 3: My play therapy office has sand and art and toys, puppets, 106 00:08:00,640 --> 00:08:05,840 Speaker 3: and it's just it's so playful each and every day. 107 00:08:06,720 --> 00:08:09,320 Speaker 3: So yeah, I didn't grow up thinking I'm going to 108 00:08:09,320 --> 00:08:11,680 Speaker 3: be a social worker and I'm going to work with 109 00:08:11,880 --> 00:08:19,280 Speaker 3: children who have this tremendous trauma what I have. It 110 00:08:19,400 --> 00:08:25,000 Speaker 3: was just a journey where children would somehow just turn 111 00:08:25,240 --> 00:08:29,080 Speaker 3: to me and just share and I would just oh, 112 00:08:29,920 --> 00:08:32,600 Speaker 3: thank you for sharing that part of you, that part 113 00:08:32,640 --> 00:08:35,160 Speaker 3: of your story. I didn't know that part of you. 114 00:08:35,400 --> 00:08:38,640 Speaker 3: So in my in my journey, I started off as 115 00:08:38,640 --> 00:08:42,760 Speaker 3: a child welfare worker in CPS, actually in La County, 116 00:08:43,080 --> 00:08:45,080 Speaker 3: wo And for those of you who don't know, Los 117 00:08:45,120 --> 00:08:50,640 Speaker 3: Angeles County has the largest child welfare population. There's more 118 00:08:51,240 --> 00:08:54,000 Speaker 3: children in the foster care system in La County than 119 00:08:54,720 --> 00:08:59,760 Speaker 3: in the world anywhere else. And I did I did 120 00:08:59,800 --> 00:09:04,240 Speaker 3: this foster youth group and I just thought, I'm going 121 00:09:04,320 --> 00:09:06,000 Speaker 3: to just do a fun activity. It's going to be 122 00:09:06,040 --> 00:09:09,160 Speaker 3: an icebreaker to get to know some of these teens. 123 00:09:09,640 --> 00:09:13,319 Speaker 3: And at the time, I didn't realize it was so therapeutic. 124 00:09:13,640 --> 00:09:16,720 Speaker 3: And some of the teens had shared things with me 125 00:09:16,920 --> 00:09:20,200 Speaker 3: that they had never shared with their therapists who they've 126 00:09:20,240 --> 00:09:25,240 Speaker 3: been in therapy with for years. And my mentor at 127 00:09:25,240 --> 00:09:29,840 Speaker 3: the time and my supervisor, she came back to me, 128 00:09:29,880 --> 00:09:35,559 Speaker 3: She's like, Christine, you have this magical power, Like are 129 00:09:35,600 --> 00:09:38,480 Speaker 3: you going to pursue therapy. Are you going to like 130 00:09:39,120 --> 00:09:41,440 Speaker 3: some of these kids, they're opening up and they're sharing 131 00:09:41,480 --> 00:09:43,680 Speaker 3: some of these things, and you know all these other 132 00:09:43,720 --> 00:09:46,960 Speaker 3: people they've gone to school for it, they have you know, 133 00:09:47,280 --> 00:09:51,280 Speaker 3: specialty training to work with the youth, and I don't know, 134 00:09:51,360 --> 00:09:55,040 Speaker 3: it's some kind of magic where you're you're helping them 135 00:09:55,080 --> 00:10:00,680 Speaker 3: open up this this space to just share. And yeah, 136 00:10:00,720 --> 00:10:03,840 Speaker 3: so that kind of just got me thinking like, wow, Okay, 137 00:10:04,000 --> 00:10:06,439 Speaker 3: maybe this is my superpower that I could tap into. 138 00:10:06,600 --> 00:10:09,720 Speaker 3: Maybe this is something And I do enjoy it, you know, 139 00:10:09,800 --> 00:10:14,840 Speaker 3: I do enjoy helping people explore, especially kids, especially teens, 140 00:10:16,600 --> 00:10:21,640 Speaker 3: because most kids and teens who've experienced trauma, in significant 141 00:10:21,640 --> 00:10:27,360 Speaker 3: complex trauma aren't always surrounded by adults who know how 142 00:10:27,400 --> 00:10:32,280 Speaker 3: to help them navigate that. And so being able to 143 00:10:32,320 --> 00:10:34,600 Speaker 3: be in a position now where I am a grown 144 00:10:34,640 --> 00:10:38,640 Speaker 3: up that can help facilitate that and teach their main 145 00:10:38,720 --> 00:10:43,080 Speaker 3: grown up to do that too is just so empowering. 146 00:10:43,360 --> 00:10:44,520 Speaker 3: It's just so moving. 147 00:10:46,000 --> 00:10:53,120 Speaker 1: I feel I'm already very worked up. I just I 148 00:10:53,400 --> 00:10:54,400 Speaker 1: so deeply. 149 00:10:54,160 --> 00:10:58,920 Speaker 2: Understand the severity of the things that you hear and 150 00:10:58,960 --> 00:11:01,959 Speaker 2: the way and we're going to dive into this, especially 151 00:11:01,960 --> 00:11:04,720 Speaker 2: with your book, because I'm really in awe of the 152 00:11:04,760 --> 00:11:09,600 Speaker 2: capacity to hold this something I don't even know if 153 00:11:09,640 --> 00:11:13,120 Speaker 2: I've ever shared with anyone. Growing up, I wanted to 154 00:11:13,160 --> 00:11:15,320 Speaker 2: be a social worker, and I didn't know why, but 155 00:11:15,360 --> 00:11:18,200 Speaker 2: that word just dropped into my consciousness from God, like 156 00:11:18,240 --> 00:11:22,160 Speaker 2: I hadn't even met any social workers or seen them 157 00:11:22,920 --> 00:11:24,600 Speaker 2: in real life. 158 00:11:24,760 --> 00:11:26,880 Speaker 1: And I used to be. 159 00:11:26,960 --> 00:11:29,199 Speaker 2: I grew up in the YMCA for a lot of 160 00:11:29,280 --> 00:11:32,800 Speaker 2: years of my childhood, and when I became of age, 161 00:11:32,840 --> 00:11:35,319 Speaker 2: they used to have a program called Counselors and Training 162 00:11:35,440 --> 00:11:38,319 Speaker 2: CS and you could go and you could be a 163 00:11:38,360 --> 00:11:40,959 Speaker 2: volunteer and you could be a leader. And so when 164 00:11:41,000 --> 00:11:43,920 Speaker 2: I was fifteen, I started my journey in that. And 165 00:11:43,960 --> 00:11:46,480 Speaker 2: I used to be a camp counselor for kids in 166 00:11:46,520 --> 00:11:50,840 Speaker 2: the summer. And one summer I went and I was 167 00:11:50,960 --> 00:11:52,800 Speaker 2: I think I had just turned sixteen, and I was 168 00:11:52,800 --> 00:11:57,200 Speaker 2: a camp counselor for kids who were in a group home, 169 00:11:58,360 --> 00:12:01,840 Speaker 2: and I think I had just turned sixteen. But I 170 00:12:01,920 --> 00:12:04,000 Speaker 2: got all these twelve year old girls, so we're not 171 00:12:04,080 --> 00:12:08,800 Speaker 2: far apart in age, and I remember, you know, being 172 00:12:08,840 --> 00:12:11,079 Speaker 2: in the cabin and trying to connect with them. And 173 00:12:11,400 --> 00:12:13,800 Speaker 2: I had bought everyone like journals at the ninety nine 174 00:12:13,800 --> 00:12:18,160 Speaker 2: cent store and you know, and we connected so beautifully. 175 00:12:18,160 --> 00:12:21,840 Speaker 2: And I remember one of the girls pulled me aside. 176 00:12:21,640 --> 00:12:30,920 Speaker 1: And shared with me that her father had been sexually 177 00:12:30,960 --> 00:12:37,000 Speaker 1: abusing her, and she just she baked me not to tell, 178 00:12:38,040 --> 00:12:41,680 Speaker 1: and I had to tell, of course, and I just I, like, 179 00:12:41,760 --> 00:12:46,199 Speaker 1: I have thought about that almost every day, and I 180 00:12:46,360 --> 00:12:49,920 Speaker 1: just carried so much guilt from having to tell. And 181 00:12:49,960 --> 00:12:53,280 Speaker 1: then I also remember I myself am sixteen, and there 182 00:12:53,280 --> 00:12:57,000 Speaker 1: were no adults that kind of walked me through what 183 00:12:57,080 --> 00:13:00,280 Speaker 1: that even meant, or the kind of emotional tol that 184 00:13:00,400 --> 00:13:03,160 Speaker 1: was taking, or like there was just no explanation. I 185 00:13:03,200 --> 00:13:06,079 Speaker 1: remember I went and told, and I was like, please, 186 00:13:06,120 --> 00:13:07,320 Speaker 1: she doesn't want anyone to know. 187 00:13:07,400 --> 00:13:08,480 Speaker 3: How can we protect her? 188 00:13:08,720 --> 00:13:15,840 Speaker 2: I was only you know, sixteen, and and it was 189 00:13:15,880 --> 00:13:17,880 Speaker 2: just kind of like okay, thanks, yeah, we're going to 190 00:13:17,960 --> 00:13:20,520 Speaker 2: call the police. And then they just and then the 191 00:13:20,559 --> 00:13:23,080 Speaker 2: police came and they took her away, and it was 192 00:13:23,200 --> 00:13:27,120 Speaker 2: just such a shocking, scary experience for me, and it 193 00:13:27,200 --> 00:13:30,640 Speaker 2: actually kind of really changed the trajectory because I didn't 194 00:13:30,640 --> 00:13:33,280 Speaker 2: think I had the capacity to hold that for children. 195 00:13:33,360 --> 00:13:36,679 Speaker 2: So I went another path, ended up becoming a journalist 196 00:13:36,760 --> 00:13:38,480 Speaker 2: and eventually found my way back. 197 00:13:38,520 --> 00:13:40,320 Speaker 3: But I just felt. 198 00:13:40,360 --> 00:13:42,160 Speaker 1: I don't know why I felt cauled to share that 199 00:13:42,200 --> 00:13:49,040 Speaker 1: for the first time, but it's just children are going 200 00:13:49,080 --> 00:13:53,000 Speaker 1: through so much and we only began to explore when 201 00:13:53,040 --> 00:13:55,760 Speaker 1: you're an adult and you're realizing the way that trauma 202 00:13:55,800 --> 00:13:58,959 Speaker 1: has limited you and your capacity to live the life 203 00:13:59,000 --> 00:14:02,440 Speaker 1: that you want in to serve, to have. And just 204 00:14:02,520 --> 00:14:05,360 Speaker 1: the thought of how we can meet these children in 205 00:14:05,400 --> 00:14:09,160 Speaker 1: the moment of their crisis with these kind of tools 206 00:14:09,240 --> 00:14:12,880 Speaker 1: and what that can do. So I really want to 207 00:14:13,040 --> 00:14:15,720 Speaker 1: if we could create a baseline understanding for the audience. 208 00:14:16,400 --> 00:14:18,240 Speaker 1: What is EMDR. 209 00:14:18,080 --> 00:14:23,840 Speaker 3: EMDR so EMDR is an acronym. It stands for eye 210 00:14:24,080 --> 00:14:31,560 Speaker 3: movement desensitization reprocessing therapy or EMDR. For sure, it's a 211 00:14:31,680 --> 00:14:37,560 Speaker 3: very long, fancy, complex name, and how I explain to 212 00:14:37,680 --> 00:14:43,000 Speaker 3: kids or just the normal person is. EMDR is an 213 00:14:43,000 --> 00:14:46,440 Speaker 3: evidence based therapy that has been shown to be effective 214 00:14:46,440 --> 00:14:56,440 Speaker 3: in helping people who have experience upsetting, scary, or traumatic things. 215 00:14:56,520 --> 00:15:02,160 Speaker 3: And it's different from talk therapy or other therapies in 216 00:15:02,240 --> 00:15:08,200 Speaker 3: the sense that there is eye movement where you move 217 00:15:08,200 --> 00:15:11,120 Speaker 3: your eyes back and forth and you're asked to focus 218 00:15:11,280 --> 00:15:15,640 Speaker 3: on the problem or the trauma that you are focusing 219 00:15:15,680 --> 00:15:19,120 Speaker 3: on that you want to work through. And since it 220 00:15:19,200 --> 00:15:21,960 Speaker 3: started off as eye movement, but now they've done research 221 00:15:22,040 --> 00:15:26,520 Speaker 3: and there's all types of different back and forth movements 222 00:15:26,960 --> 00:15:30,040 Speaker 3: that you can do. You can do tactile that means 223 00:15:30,120 --> 00:15:34,560 Speaker 3: just like tapping or moving back and forth. You can 224 00:15:34,600 --> 00:15:38,480 Speaker 3: stand up and like stomp your feet back and forth. 225 00:15:38,520 --> 00:15:41,520 Speaker 3: And if you think about it, we are all doing 226 00:15:41,560 --> 00:15:45,800 Speaker 3: bilaterals every single day we're walking. You know that side 227 00:15:45,840 --> 00:15:48,560 Speaker 3: to side, your your feet are moving one at a time. 228 00:15:49,800 --> 00:15:52,440 Speaker 3: If you're a mother, you're probably you're probably holding your 229 00:15:52,440 --> 00:15:57,120 Speaker 3: baby and you're rocking them back and forth. It's regulating 230 00:15:57,600 --> 00:16:00,400 Speaker 3: in a way to have that movement side to side. 231 00:16:00,560 --> 00:16:04,360 Speaker 3: It's natural. Some people have, even who experience a lot 232 00:16:04,360 --> 00:16:07,320 Speaker 3: of anxiety, that's something they do as they kind of 233 00:16:07,400 --> 00:16:11,240 Speaker 3: rock back and forth and without even noticing they're doing 234 00:16:11,320 --> 00:16:15,280 Speaker 3: bilateral movement. They're doing back and forth movement to self soothe. 235 00:16:16,080 --> 00:16:20,040 Speaker 3: So there's a lot of science behind it, but the 236 00:16:21,360 --> 00:16:24,200 Speaker 3: gist of it is that someone figured out. Francine Shapiro, 237 00:16:24,280 --> 00:16:28,520 Speaker 3: who created EMDR. She figured out that yes, we can 238 00:16:29,240 --> 00:16:32,680 Speaker 3: have this structured therapy where we can do bilateral movement 239 00:16:33,240 --> 00:16:38,760 Speaker 3: while focusing on something to desensitize it, meaning it doesn't 240 00:16:39,200 --> 00:16:42,960 Speaker 3: cause a stress anymore the way it does. It doesn't 241 00:16:43,000 --> 00:16:47,040 Speaker 3: trigger us in the way it normally does. So if 242 00:16:47,080 --> 00:16:51,360 Speaker 3: something reminds me of trauma, I can know that it happened. 243 00:16:52,520 --> 00:16:57,360 Speaker 3: I can be at peace with it. I can think 244 00:16:57,440 --> 00:17:01,200 Speaker 3: that was the past, that was a year ago, that 245 00:17:01,320 --> 00:17:04,960 Speaker 3: was five years ago, that was last week, and I 246 00:17:05,000 --> 00:17:09,040 Speaker 3: don't have to hold it with me anymore, because a 247 00:17:09,040 --> 00:17:11,199 Speaker 3: lot of times what happens with trauma is that it 248 00:17:11,240 --> 00:17:16,640 Speaker 3: gets stuck. And the whole premise of AMDR is it's 249 00:17:16,640 --> 00:17:20,840 Speaker 3: a very holistic approach because we are working on how 250 00:17:20,920 --> 00:17:25,639 Speaker 3: the trauma is imprinted in us in our minds, but 251 00:17:25,720 --> 00:17:28,760 Speaker 3: it's also working on how it's imprinted in us in 252 00:17:28,840 --> 00:17:32,800 Speaker 3: the way we feel and our whole body, because our 253 00:17:32,840 --> 00:17:36,200 Speaker 3: bodies remember the trauma too. You spoke about the young 254 00:17:36,320 --> 00:17:40,320 Speaker 3: girl who experienced sexual abuse, and when I have clients 255 00:17:40,359 --> 00:17:46,560 Speaker 3: who have had sexual trauma, there's a lot of body sensation. 256 00:17:46,760 --> 00:17:50,679 Speaker 3: There's a lot of trauma trapped inside your body in 257 00:17:50,760 --> 00:17:55,000 Speaker 3: certain places. Yes, And if we only do talk therapy 258 00:17:55,280 --> 00:17:59,160 Speaker 3: and we only focus on well, what did you think 259 00:17:59,200 --> 00:18:01,000 Speaker 3: about that? Or what do you want to think about 260 00:18:01,040 --> 00:18:03,680 Speaker 3: it now, it doesn't capture all the healing that needs 261 00:18:03,720 --> 00:18:04,320 Speaker 3: to be done. 262 00:18:04,600 --> 00:18:09,280 Speaker 2: Yes, God, thank you so much for saying that. That's 263 00:18:09,320 --> 00:18:12,040 Speaker 2: something that I work with a lot with clients. It's 264 00:18:12,080 --> 00:18:17,239 Speaker 2: the holistic view. You can't just treat your mind. And 265 00:18:17,280 --> 00:18:20,080 Speaker 2: I think, and I think a lot of people now 266 00:18:20,119 --> 00:18:23,840 Speaker 2: that they're exposed to so many other types of treatments 267 00:18:23,840 --> 00:18:27,600 Speaker 2: and practices, we're able to expand that within this larger 268 00:18:27,680 --> 00:18:31,240 Speaker 2: conversation having around mental health. But mental health is body health, 269 00:18:31,800 --> 00:18:35,280 Speaker 2: mental health is heart health, mental health is every health. 270 00:18:36,400 --> 00:18:40,040 Speaker 1: You know. Yeah, and you know, sometimes cognitive. 271 00:18:39,600 --> 00:18:44,960 Speaker 2: Therapy you'll reach you'll reach a limit and then it 272 00:18:45,040 --> 00:18:47,240 Speaker 2: kind of keeps you in a loop where you're just 273 00:18:47,400 --> 00:18:50,920 Speaker 2: repeating the depth of understanding you have with the language 274 00:18:50,960 --> 00:18:53,920 Speaker 2: you have, but you're not allowing it to move through 275 00:18:53,960 --> 00:18:59,280 Speaker 2: and out of the body, you know. Speaking of m 276 00:18:59,359 --> 00:19:01,960 Speaker 2: d R specially for children, which I have your book 277 00:19:02,000 --> 00:19:06,639 Speaker 2: EMDR Workbook for Kids, which is how I found you. 278 00:19:06,720 --> 00:19:08,960 Speaker 2: I was just so blown away when that came into 279 00:19:09,000 --> 00:19:15,840 Speaker 2: my awareness. EMDR as an adult has been for me 280 00:19:16,040 --> 00:19:21,160 Speaker 2: so incredibly transformative, and it's helped my biology meet where 281 00:19:21,200 --> 00:19:26,760 Speaker 2: my spirit actually has ascended to and it's been it's 282 00:19:26,960 --> 00:19:32,359 Speaker 2: just been as someone who has experienced many different complex traumas. 283 00:19:33,240 --> 00:19:37,080 Speaker 2: It's something that allows you to, as you explain, really beautifully, 284 00:19:38,440 --> 00:19:40,840 Speaker 2: get far more connected to your present moment, so you 285 00:19:40,880 --> 00:19:43,199 Speaker 2: can make a different choice and how you'll feel, and 286 00:19:43,240 --> 00:19:47,760 Speaker 2: it changes that some of those stories or intrusive thoughts 287 00:19:47,800 --> 00:19:50,720 Speaker 2: from taking over the full day or the week, or 288 00:19:50,760 --> 00:19:54,760 Speaker 2: the month or the year, to ideally being able to 289 00:19:54,880 --> 00:19:57,800 Speaker 2: pass through it so much faster as you described, and 290 00:19:57,880 --> 00:20:02,200 Speaker 2: release it so much quicker so you can live. How 291 00:20:02,240 --> 00:20:07,360 Speaker 2: does EMDR work in children and what is where does 292 00:20:07,400 --> 00:20:12,040 Speaker 2: it allow? How does it allow a child to become 293 00:20:13,160 --> 00:20:15,760 Speaker 2: and to heal differently than with adults. 294 00:20:16,080 --> 00:20:20,200 Speaker 3: No, it's funny with children compared to adults, is that 295 00:20:20,880 --> 00:20:33,040 Speaker 3: adults have much bigger memory networks and experiences. So if you, 296 00:20:33,720 --> 00:20:37,880 Speaker 3: since you were five years old, have always thought I'm 297 00:20:37,920 --> 00:20:43,480 Speaker 3: not enough, and you carry that perspective with you in 298 00:20:43,640 --> 00:20:47,560 Speaker 3: every part of your life, in school, in your family, 299 00:20:47,840 --> 00:20:49,640 Speaker 3: with your friends, and then you grow up and it's 300 00:20:49,720 --> 00:20:53,000 Speaker 3: with your partner and it's with your children. As a parent, 301 00:20:53,840 --> 00:20:59,119 Speaker 3: there's so much to unpack as an adult, but when 302 00:20:59,160 --> 00:21:01,479 Speaker 3: you do it with a child, their memory networks are 303 00:21:01,520 --> 00:21:06,399 Speaker 3: so fresh and new, and so EMDR is rather quick. 304 00:21:07,080 --> 00:21:10,200 Speaker 3: I might have several sessions with an adult working on 305 00:21:10,640 --> 00:21:15,919 Speaker 3: the negative thought we call negative cognitions and emdr for 306 00:21:16,080 --> 00:21:19,399 Speaker 3: that I'm not enough. And with children it's so quick, 307 00:21:19,520 --> 00:21:22,000 Speaker 3: like it could be five minutes, it could be ten minutes, 308 00:21:22,600 --> 00:21:28,560 Speaker 3: and you're like, they just they have this shift where hmm, yeah, 309 00:21:28,920 --> 00:21:31,920 Speaker 3: that one thing made me feel like I wasn't enough, 310 00:21:33,040 --> 00:21:35,560 Speaker 3: but I just I know I'm enough. 311 00:21:36,280 --> 00:21:36,720 Speaker 1: Wow. 312 00:21:36,800 --> 00:21:39,840 Speaker 3: And for them to travel through life in school with 313 00:21:39,880 --> 00:21:43,840 Speaker 3: their friends and then future like becoming a you know, 314 00:21:44,359 --> 00:21:47,800 Speaker 3: having a partner romantically, having their own family, and just 315 00:21:47,880 --> 00:21:53,399 Speaker 3: to have a perspective like I'm good, I'm enough and 316 00:21:53,480 --> 00:21:57,920 Speaker 3: just have that confidence. Just a different lived experience. There's 317 00:21:58,000 --> 00:22:01,560 Speaker 3: not as much to unpack, right, So I just feel 318 00:22:01,600 --> 00:22:05,520 Speaker 3: like preventative or just starting at the root, starting at 319 00:22:05,560 --> 00:22:09,680 Speaker 3: where it all starts, versus like let's try to fix 320 00:22:09,760 --> 00:22:12,879 Speaker 3: this later. Not that it can't be fixed later or 321 00:22:12,920 --> 00:22:16,040 Speaker 3: it can't be reversed or there can't be healing done, 322 00:22:16,359 --> 00:22:18,680 Speaker 3: but why not start at the root, like right, and 323 00:22:18,800 --> 00:22:20,880 Speaker 3: why not start from the beginning. 324 00:22:22,800 --> 00:22:23,240 Speaker 1: Deeply? 325 00:22:23,920 --> 00:22:30,040 Speaker 2: Wow. On one hand, I'm hearing the tremendous opportunity, especially 326 00:22:30,040 --> 00:22:33,400 Speaker 2: for parents with children, and whether those children have experienced 327 00:22:33,440 --> 00:22:36,160 Speaker 2: you know, the big ta traumas, the little ta traumas. 328 00:22:36,640 --> 00:22:41,119 Speaker 1: It's about the repair therapy in real time, right away. 329 00:22:41,280 --> 00:22:45,840 Speaker 1: And even if you're having an you know, a challenge 330 00:22:45,840 --> 00:22:48,720 Speaker 1: with your child and maybe you get upset, being able 331 00:22:48,760 --> 00:22:52,399 Speaker 1: to apologize right away and make sure your child's worth 332 00:22:52,480 --> 00:22:55,880 Speaker 1: is intact, that their self esteem is intact, that their 333 00:22:55,960 --> 00:23:00,560 Speaker 1: sense of being loved is intact. How transformative that is, like, 334 00:23:00,680 --> 00:23:05,240 Speaker 1: don't wait, don't wait to meet that need? Wow? 335 00:23:06,080 --> 00:23:09,520 Speaker 2: And I'm also hearing you know, for the adults, especially 336 00:23:09,560 --> 00:23:13,199 Speaker 2: any that have a little trepidation around doing some of 337 00:23:13,240 --> 00:23:17,679 Speaker 2: that deeper work. It's not that you can't always have 338 00:23:17,840 --> 00:23:23,080 Speaker 2: access to heal, but it does get a lot more 339 00:23:23,200 --> 00:23:27,160 Speaker 2: challenging and layered the longer you wait, because you're having 340 00:23:27,240 --> 00:23:31,400 Speaker 2: so many more experiences that are informed by those limiting 341 00:23:31,440 --> 00:23:34,960 Speaker 2: beliefs absolutely that are now going to be stacked upon 342 00:23:35,160 --> 00:23:38,320 Speaker 2: all the other spiritual curriculum you need to work through. 343 00:23:38,760 --> 00:23:43,919 Speaker 1: Right wow, Wow Wow? 344 00:23:45,440 --> 00:23:48,439 Speaker 2: What are ways for parents that do have children that 345 00:23:48,480 --> 00:23:54,159 Speaker 2: have experienced some traumas, whether no matter what that trauma is, 346 00:23:54,200 --> 00:23:59,000 Speaker 2: if it is some of the really severe experiences that 347 00:23:59,240 --> 00:24:03,359 Speaker 2: your child may have been sexually abused or physically abused, 348 00:24:03,760 --> 00:24:08,679 Speaker 2: emotionally abused, emotionally neglected, or if there's just some disconnect 349 00:24:08,760 --> 00:24:11,040 Speaker 2: at school in the way that they're able to interact 350 00:24:11,080 --> 00:24:14,440 Speaker 2: with other kids, How can we be more perceptive to 351 00:24:14,600 --> 00:24:18,000 Speaker 2: spotting that and how can we meet that need? 352 00:24:19,760 --> 00:24:22,240 Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, I know that's a big question. It's 353 00:24:22,240 --> 00:24:26,080 Speaker 3: a big question. Some the work that I do with 354 00:24:26,280 --> 00:24:30,760 Speaker 3: parents is that they sometimes the parents need to do 355 00:24:30,800 --> 00:24:34,320 Speaker 3: their own work too to have that attunement and awareness. 356 00:24:35,440 --> 00:24:40,200 Speaker 3: It's really hard to be attuned and aware of your 357 00:24:40,320 --> 00:24:46,679 Speaker 3: child's needs if you're ignoring your own how can you know? 358 00:24:46,920 --> 00:24:49,400 Speaker 3: How can you know if you're ignoring your own needs 359 00:24:49,440 --> 00:24:52,679 Speaker 3: and you're ignoring you know, what you need in this 360 00:24:52,800 --> 00:24:55,320 Speaker 3: moment and setting your own boundaries, how are you going 361 00:24:55,359 --> 00:24:57,760 Speaker 3: to turn around and see that for your child? But 362 00:24:58,080 --> 00:25:00,439 Speaker 3: you know, I as a mother, I think there's the 363 00:25:00,520 --> 00:25:05,679 Speaker 3: flip side too of I'm really good at meeting my 364 00:25:05,800 --> 00:25:09,240 Speaker 3: child's needs and then none of my needs. But how 365 00:25:09,280 --> 00:25:12,840 Speaker 3: effective are you really at meeting your child's needs if 366 00:25:12,840 --> 00:25:16,080 Speaker 3: you're not meeting your needs? So I think that's kind 367 00:25:16,080 --> 00:25:19,560 Speaker 3: of the first step with so many parents who walk 368 00:25:19,640 --> 00:25:24,480 Speaker 3: through my office doors is I know you're here for 369 00:25:24,560 --> 00:25:27,359 Speaker 3: your child, but I want to do a parent checking 370 00:25:27,440 --> 00:25:30,440 Speaker 3: with you like, how are you? How is this wying 371 00:25:30,440 --> 00:25:36,480 Speaker 3: on you? Because your child is not in a vacuum. 372 00:25:36,520 --> 00:25:39,160 Speaker 3: You're not in a vacuum. You're all connected. So if 373 00:25:39,200 --> 00:25:42,840 Speaker 3: something happens to anyone in the family, it impacts the 374 00:25:43,240 --> 00:25:46,720 Speaker 3: entire family system. It's not just well, that happened to 375 00:25:46,800 --> 00:25:49,159 Speaker 3: her and she's dealing with it and then we're just 376 00:25:49,240 --> 00:25:54,320 Speaker 3: over here helping her. That impacted you in a way, 377 00:25:54,480 --> 00:25:59,439 Speaker 3: to know that something horrible happened for your child and 378 00:25:59,480 --> 00:26:04,639 Speaker 3: it's now them unlike them, right, they're not themselves And 379 00:26:04,680 --> 00:26:07,359 Speaker 3: that's so hurtful to see the chat as a parent, 380 00:26:07,840 --> 00:26:10,520 Speaker 3: to see your child struggling. Right, As parents, we never 381 00:26:10,560 --> 00:26:11,800 Speaker 3: want to see your kids struggle. 382 00:26:11,960 --> 00:26:13,920 Speaker 1: God right, we want. 383 00:26:14,280 --> 00:26:17,239 Speaker 3: We want our children to reach their highest potential. We 384 00:26:17,280 --> 00:26:22,040 Speaker 3: want them to dream big and in your reach for 385 00:26:22,080 --> 00:26:26,800 Speaker 3: the stars. And when when they have things that hold 386 00:26:26,840 --> 00:26:31,200 Speaker 3: them back from that, it's time bringing to watch. Right. 387 00:26:32,680 --> 00:26:36,200 Speaker 2: It is so heartbreaking to watch. And it's I myself 388 00:26:36,240 --> 00:26:38,359 Speaker 2: as a mom. I have a five year old just 389 00:26:38,440 --> 00:26:43,560 Speaker 2: turn five. It's something I have to really push myself 390 00:26:43,600 --> 00:26:46,560 Speaker 2: to do, is create pockets for him to build his 391 00:26:46,760 --> 00:26:49,800 Speaker 2: like emotional resilience, because I do want to swoop in 392 00:26:49,880 --> 00:26:51,800 Speaker 2: at all times, I do want to find a way 393 00:26:52,600 --> 00:26:55,040 Speaker 2: to make him smile, to make him, you know, to 394 00:26:55,040 --> 00:26:57,560 Speaker 2: get him out of something. And sometimes I'm like, no, 395 00:26:57,680 --> 00:27:01,240 Speaker 2: you have to let him you know, also experience not 396 00:27:01,359 --> 00:27:05,359 Speaker 2: getting his way and you know, having sometimes challenges with 397 00:27:06,040 --> 00:27:09,879 Speaker 2: his classmates or his other friends. But yeah, and I 398 00:27:09,920 --> 00:27:16,399 Speaker 2: think that that is sometimes what what can really hinder 399 00:27:16,440 --> 00:27:18,919 Speaker 2: our children long term too, right, because there is that 400 00:27:19,119 --> 00:27:23,840 Speaker 2: certain kind of trauma that can happen from not having 401 00:27:23,920 --> 00:27:27,359 Speaker 2: the space to make your own mistakes, to come to 402 00:27:27,400 --> 00:27:29,000 Speaker 2: your own conclusions as well. 403 00:27:31,080 --> 00:27:35,280 Speaker 3: Yeah, I know. 404 00:27:35,280 --> 00:27:37,520 Speaker 1: All the mamas are like, but I love my babies 405 00:27:37,880 --> 00:27:40,720 Speaker 1: and I'm breaking generational curses. I want to do this, 406 00:27:41,119 --> 00:27:41,359 Speaker 1: you know. 407 00:27:41,840 --> 00:27:47,840 Speaker 2: Uh so a lot of your work, you know, so 408 00:27:47,840 --> 00:27:53,159 Speaker 2: so so rooted and helping to alleviate the suffering of 409 00:27:53,200 --> 00:27:57,639 Speaker 2: those who have experienced trauma for a long time. And 410 00:27:57,680 --> 00:27:59,520 Speaker 2: this is what I used to experience when I first 411 00:27:59,560 --> 00:28:06,240 Speaker 2: started teaching. We'd be given if I was working through 412 00:28:06,280 --> 00:28:13,879 Speaker 2: programs in psychology or in somatics or meditation previously, it 413 00:28:13,920 --> 00:28:16,880 Speaker 2: would have like the tiniest little paragraph at the end 414 00:28:16,920 --> 00:28:19,080 Speaker 2: of the textbooks that says, and if you happen to 415 00:28:19,119 --> 00:28:22,880 Speaker 2: have a client that has PTSD because they're a veteran, 416 00:28:24,040 --> 00:28:25,840 Speaker 2: you might want to take your time in this way. 417 00:28:26,320 --> 00:28:31,159 Speaker 2: And that was really the scope universally of the kinds 418 00:28:31,200 --> 00:28:35,120 Speaker 2: of trauma that existed. It literally really was only in textbooks, 419 00:28:35,560 --> 00:28:38,520 Speaker 2: not textbooks, but in some of these program materials, as 420 00:28:39,120 --> 00:28:41,520 Speaker 2: if they went to war or if they were a soldier, 421 00:28:42,000 --> 00:28:46,200 Speaker 2: this is how they'll feel. As this conversation that we've 422 00:28:46,240 --> 00:28:49,680 Speaker 2: been having in mental health as a society has been expanding, 423 00:28:49,840 --> 00:28:53,520 Speaker 2: specifically since twenty twenty, so just in the last three years, 424 00:28:54,040 --> 00:28:56,479 Speaker 2: there is so much more understanding of the fact that 425 00:28:56,680 --> 00:29:02,200 Speaker 2: complex PTSD is so prevalent in our communities and in 426 00:29:02,760 --> 00:29:06,800 Speaker 2: our daily lives, and that, you know, this network of 427 00:29:06,920 --> 00:29:12,240 Speaker 2: experience for so many people has been that people are 428 00:29:12,240 --> 00:29:17,240 Speaker 2: carrying unspoken trauma and from their childhoods through generations, from 429 00:29:17,320 --> 00:29:21,560 Speaker 2: experiences with partners that people don't talk about. So if 430 00:29:21,600 --> 00:29:24,600 Speaker 2: you would, could you walk us through the biology of 431 00:29:24,680 --> 00:29:28,120 Speaker 2: what it is to have c PTSD. I have this 432 00:29:29,600 --> 00:29:31,880 Speaker 2: handout in this graph that I like to teach, and 433 00:29:31,960 --> 00:29:36,600 Speaker 2: it's this spectrum of trauma, and I think our society 434 00:29:36,720 --> 00:29:40,080 Speaker 2: has come a long way and understanding trauma. 435 00:29:41,320 --> 00:29:44,640 Speaker 3: There's more to go. There's much much further to go. 436 00:29:44,880 --> 00:29:47,200 Speaker 3: And on one end of it, there's a cute trauma. 437 00:29:47,280 --> 00:29:49,959 Speaker 3: So acute trauma is like a one time thing. It 438 00:29:50,000 --> 00:29:53,240 Speaker 3: happens once a freak accident, maybe it's a car accident, 439 00:29:54,120 --> 00:29:57,560 Speaker 3: and as we move up the scale, the trauma can 440 00:29:57,600 --> 00:30:01,360 Speaker 3: be chronic. So chronic trauma is when something happens over 441 00:30:01,400 --> 00:30:05,400 Speaker 3: and over again. An example of that is maybe like 442 00:30:05,440 --> 00:30:08,720 Speaker 3: domestic violence, it happens in the home every single day. 443 00:30:08,840 --> 00:30:15,080 Speaker 3: That chronic trauma. Complex trauma is when perhaps it's chronic 444 00:30:16,200 --> 00:30:20,840 Speaker 3: and acute, but it's a bunch of things. It's there's 445 00:30:20,920 --> 00:30:24,720 Speaker 3: domestic violence, there's gang violence, there's community violence, and there's 446 00:30:24,760 --> 00:30:29,440 Speaker 3: immigration stuff, and there's sexual violence, and that is all 447 00:30:29,480 --> 00:30:34,400 Speaker 3: in one person or one lived experience. That's complex. And 448 00:30:34,440 --> 00:30:39,920 Speaker 3: when what happens in the biology is you're just in 449 00:30:40,040 --> 00:30:42,880 Speaker 3: survival mode. So what happens in survival mode, we get 450 00:30:43,000 --> 00:30:47,200 Speaker 3: certain hormones running through our system in our biology to 451 00:30:47,600 --> 00:30:53,160 Speaker 3: just I'm just surviving, right, and your cortisol is actually 452 00:30:53,160 --> 00:30:56,840 Speaker 3: like running, you know, running high all the time. And 453 00:30:58,320 --> 00:31:02,280 Speaker 3: when you live in that, when you live in survival 454 00:31:02,320 --> 00:31:06,280 Speaker 3: mode twenty four to seven for many, many many years, 455 00:31:07,640 --> 00:31:11,880 Speaker 3: that changes you know, everything. It doesn't just change the 456 00:31:11,880 --> 00:31:13,880 Speaker 3: way you think and the way you see the world. 457 00:31:13,920 --> 00:31:18,000 Speaker 3: It just changes how your body responds to trauma, it 458 00:31:18,080 --> 00:31:22,440 Speaker 3: changes how your heart holds it. And sometimes people are 459 00:31:22,440 --> 00:31:27,960 Speaker 3: just so unaware because it's the reality that I've lived 460 00:31:27,960 --> 00:31:31,760 Speaker 3: in survival mode and this is my experience, and I've 461 00:31:31,840 --> 00:31:37,840 Speaker 3: just never felt safe, and I've never Sometimes I don't 462 00:31:37,880 --> 00:31:41,680 Speaker 3: even use a word safe with my clients with children, 463 00:31:41,760 --> 00:31:47,000 Speaker 3: because it's a triggering word within itself. They just don't 464 00:31:47,040 --> 00:31:51,240 Speaker 3: know what it's like to feel physically safe, to feel 465 00:31:51,400 --> 00:31:56,600 Speaker 3: emotionally safe, to feel you know, just holy, holistically just 466 00:31:56,640 --> 00:32:01,480 Speaker 3: everything just feels safe, yeah, and centered and aligned. And 467 00:32:02,560 --> 00:32:06,440 Speaker 3: it's scary. It's scary because my whole life, I've always 468 00:32:06,520 --> 00:32:09,880 Speaker 3: had to be so guarded. I always had to make 469 00:32:09,920 --> 00:32:12,520 Speaker 3: sure I was looking around the corner, like I had 470 00:32:12,520 --> 00:32:14,680 Speaker 3: to sit in a certain place. I had to act 471 00:32:14,720 --> 00:32:17,200 Speaker 3: and behave a certain way to look tough so that 472 00:32:17,280 --> 00:32:24,160 Speaker 3: I didn't look vulnerable. And so safe isn't always a 473 00:32:24,200 --> 00:32:30,560 Speaker 3: word that I use with complex trauma clients. But how 474 00:32:30,600 --> 00:32:33,520 Speaker 3: do I feel at ease? How do I feel at peace? 475 00:32:33,600 --> 00:32:37,600 Speaker 3: How do I just feel more authentic and centered with myself? 476 00:32:38,680 --> 00:32:44,960 Speaker 3: And maybe that isn't safe. Maybe it's a less intense 477 00:32:45,200 --> 00:32:51,000 Speaker 3: version of like I feel secure enough right now, and 478 00:32:51,080 --> 00:32:56,480 Speaker 3: I have enough protective factors like readily available to me 479 00:32:56,680 --> 00:32:59,880 Speaker 3: as tools that I could use. But do I feel 480 00:33:00,000 --> 00:33:04,760 Speaker 3: completely safe? Not all the time. And I think in 481 00:33:04,800 --> 00:33:07,720 Speaker 3: our climate too, you know, we move up the for 482 00:33:07,840 --> 00:33:13,560 Speaker 3: other traumas on the spectrum, the intergenerational trauma. Right, it's 483 00:33:13,920 --> 00:33:17,040 Speaker 3: your grandma and your great grandma and everybody you know 484 00:33:17,720 --> 00:33:20,240 Speaker 3: in your family. Everybody had this. This was just a 485 00:33:20,280 --> 00:33:26,920 Speaker 3: normal part of our family line and story. There's racial trauma, right, 486 00:33:27,000 --> 00:33:32,800 Speaker 3: A whole groups of people are experiencing the same trauma. 487 00:33:33,720 --> 00:33:37,040 Speaker 3: And when we think about the pandemic and twenty twenty, 488 00:33:37,120 --> 00:33:38,920 Speaker 3: you know, on the other end of the spectrum is 489 00:33:38,960 --> 00:33:42,440 Speaker 3: the collective trauma that we experience as a whole society. 490 00:33:43,080 --> 00:33:46,760 Speaker 3: That nobody got got away from COVID or no one 491 00:33:47,080 --> 00:33:54,160 Speaker 3: you know, escaped that collective trauma. Everybody was impacted and 492 00:33:54,200 --> 00:33:58,240 Speaker 3: affected in some way. And so trauma is so complex 493 00:33:58,320 --> 00:34:02,160 Speaker 3: within itself, and I think it's very rare. There's a 494 00:34:02,280 --> 00:34:05,959 Speaker 3: unicorn out there there they've only experienced a cute trauma, 495 00:34:06,040 --> 00:34:09,960 Speaker 3: like they've only had one thing in their life. I 496 00:34:09,960 --> 00:34:12,400 Speaker 3: think it depends on the person there's little teas, like 497 00:34:12,440 --> 00:34:14,759 Speaker 3: you said, the little traumas in your life that could 498 00:34:14,760 --> 00:34:20,799 Speaker 3: be like bullying when you're in elementary school, or it 499 00:34:20,800 --> 00:34:23,560 Speaker 3: could be some of these big teas that we you know, 500 00:34:23,600 --> 00:34:26,960 Speaker 3: we've talked about and how they impact us in a 501 00:34:26,960 --> 00:34:31,000 Speaker 3: big way. And each person is different. Big teas can 502 00:34:31,520 --> 00:34:36,359 Speaker 3: not impact one person and one like child, even when 503 00:34:36,400 --> 00:34:39,479 Speaker 3: I work with families and siblings, like one siblings really 504 00:34:39,480 --> 00:34:44,280 Speaker 3: really impacted and the other siblings like, yeah, that sucked, 505 00:34:44,400 --> 00:34:48,840 Speaker 3: but it's okay now, you know, and I'm fine, I'm good. 506 00:34:49,160 --> 00:34:53,280 Speaker 3: And so there's different levels of resilience for children as well, 507 00:34:53,520 --> 00:34:59,920 Speaker 3: and that's it's just such a broad experience for everyone. 508 00:35:01,000 --> 00:35:03,360 Speaker 3: That's so interesting in that way, and I think it 509 00:35:04,200 --> 00:35:09,279 Speaker 3: keeps my work interesting because no trauma is experienced in 510 00:35:09,320 --> 00:35:13,760 Speaker 3: the same way for children, for families, and it plays 511 00:35:13,760 --> 00:35:15,080 Speaker 3: out differently for everyone. 512 00:35:15,800 --> 00:35:19,919 Speaker 1: God such a powerful point, and I think that's why 513 00:35:19,960 --> 00:35:23,560 Speaker 1: it's so important for each of us to give everyone 514 00:35:23,600 --> 00:35:27,360 Speaker 1: the dignity of their own process as they move through something. 515 00:35:28,560 --> 00:35:29,160 Speaker 1: The point you. 516 00:35:29,160 --> 00:35:32,799 Speaker 2: Spoke to about the word safe right in and of 517 00:35:32,840 --> 00:35:36,200 Speaker 2: itself being triggering, God, that is so real. I know 518 00:35:36,320 --> 00:35:39,279 Speaker 2: so many listening right now are really relating to that. 519 00:35:40,440 --> 00:35:42,040 Speaker 2: It's one of the reasons at the beginning of the show, 520 00:35:42,080 --> 00:35:43,960 Speaker 2: I don't say this is a safe place. I say 521 00:35:43,960 --> 00:35:47,279 Speaker 2: it's a soft place because I have no idea what 522 00:35:47,400 --> 00:35:51,280 Speaker 2: safety means to anyone. And it's that kind of feeling 523 00:35:51,320 --> 00:35:55,560 Speaker 2: that for so many it's just an abstract word, like 524 00:35:55,880 --> 00:35:58,080 Speaker 2: what does it even mean? Like when we kind of 525 00:35:58,120 --> 00:36:01,280 Speaker 2: go for these I think, especially at the beginning of 526 00:36:01,840 --> 00:36:04,560 Speaker 2: you know, one of these kind of journeys of awareness, 527 00:36:05,280 --> 00:36:13,239 Speaker 2: of awakening to your experience a word like safe or 528 00:36:13,360 --> 00:36:15,960 Speaker 2: word like peace, if there is no baseline of ever 529 00:36:16,040 --> 00:36:19,799 Speaker 2: having had that experience, you don't even know what you're 530 00:36:19,840 --> 00:36:23,640 Speaker 2: trying to create. You know, those words not only don't 531 00:36:23,680 --> 00:36:27,520 Speaker 2: make sense, but they kind of feel like it hinders 532 00:36:27,560 --> 00:36:30,759 Speaker 2: you because you're chasing something you don't even know how 533 00:36:30,760 --> 00:36:31,800 Speaker 2: that feels. 534 00:36:31,400 --> 00:36:32,120 Speaker 3: In your body. 535 00:36:33,400 --> 00:36:39,680 Speaker 2: Wow, you wrote this beautiful book, MDR Workbook for Kids, 536 00:36:39,760 --> 00:36:44,200 Speaker 2: a collection of EMDR handouts and worksheets to help kids 537 00:36:44,280 --> 00:36:49,600 Speaker 2: process trauma, stress, anger, sadness, and more. What made you 538 00:36:49,640 --> 00:36:52,080 Speaker 2: decide to write this book and how did you begin 539 00:36:52,239 --> 00:36:55,919 Speaker 2: to pour all of this experience into something that could 540 00:36:55,960 --> 00:36:58,280 Speaker 2: be really metabolized by children. 541 00:37:00,400 --> 00:37:05,240 Speaker 3: You know, I can't take credit for that entire book. 542 00:37:05,360 --> 00:37:11,480 Speaker 3: I really can't because I had so many little clients 543 00:37:11,560 --> 00:37:14,600 Speaker 3: that helped me. It was such a it was such 544 00:37:14,640 --> 00:37:20,120 Speaker 3: a collaborative project. So when I first got trained in EMDR, 545 00:37:20,400 --> 00:37:25,239 Speaker 3: there were not a lot of resources for children, and 546 00:37:25,280 --> 00:37:28,680 Speaker 3: because I mainly work with children, I was so excited. 547 00:37:28,760 --> 00:37:33,000 Speaker 3: After I got trained in EMDR and using that therapy modality, 548 00:37:33,800 --> 00:37:37,480 Speaker 3: I did my research. I was looking everywhere. I you know, 549 00:37:37,880 --> 00:37:40,960 Speaker 3: looked on the internet, looked for books. Is there is 550 00:37:41,000 --> 00:37:42,880 Speaker 3: there a worksheet? Is there a work book? And at 551 00:37:42,920 --> 00:37:47,040 Speaker 3: the time, I was working in schools at elementary school, 552 00:37:48,080 --> 00:37:51,040 Speaker 3: a lot of elementary age children, and I didn't have 553 00:37:51,080 --> 00:37:55,440 Speaker 3: a fancy office, right, I didn't have all these resources 554 00:37:55,440 --> 00:37:57,960 Speaker 3: available to me. Sometimes I was like stuck in a 555 00:37:58,040 --> 00:38:02,480 Speaker 3: janitor's office working on sexual trauma with an elementary school child. Right. 556 00:38:02,560 --> 00:38:12,040 Speaker 3: And it's incredible how much you can do therapeutically with 557 00:38:12,200 --> 00:38:16,400 Speaker 3: just paper and pen And really you can have the 558 00:38:16,440 --> 00:38:20,240 Speaker 3: fanciest tools, but the best therapy tool is like you 559 00:38:20,440 --> 00:38:27,520 Speaker 3: as a person, like humans create therapeutic experiences, not the therapy, 560 00:38:27,680 --> 00:38:31,080 Speaker 3: not the you know, the fancy tools that you can 561 00:38:31,120 --> 00:38:34,040 Speaker 3: get for EMDR. There's lots of tools out there for 562 00:38:34,120 --> 00:38:38,360 Speaker 3: bilateral movement where you follow the light bar, or there's 563 00:38:38,440 --> 00:38:41,240 Speaker 3: like buzzers that you can get, and all those tools 564 00:38:41,280 --> 00:38:45,480 Speaker 3: are fantastic. They're supplemental to the therapy, but really it's 565 00:38:45,640 --> 00:38:51,360 Speaker 3: it's the person who is is creating that space for 566 00:38:51,480 --> 00:38:58,240 Speaker 3: that healing. And yeah, so my book I with limited tools. 567 00:38:58,280 --> 00:39:01,279 Speaker 3: I didn't find a lot of out there. I just 568 00:39:01,600 --> 00:39:04,160 Speaker 3: pen and paper are at the school on the whiteboard 569 00:39:04,160 --> 00:39:08,600 Speaker 3: I started drying. We made like there's a something called 570 00:39:08,600 --> 00:39:11,880 Speaker 3: the sud scale where we're just asking children and adults 571 00:39:11,880 --> 00:39:14,360 Speaker 3: to rate how stress you feel now on a scale 572 00:39:14,360 --> 00:39:16,799 Speaker 3: of zero to tend, very similar to when you go 573 00:39:16,880 --> 00:39:19,120 Speaker 3: to the doctor and they ask what's your pain level? 574 00:39:19,239 --> 00:39:25,280 Speaker 3: Right on this scale. And instead of just boring numbers, 575 00:39:27,080 --> 00:39:30,799 Speaker 3: my clients are my children are asking can we use 576 00:39:30,880 --> 00:39:34,520 Speaker 3: unicorns today? Or can we use donuts? Or can we like, Oh, 577 00:39:34,600 --> 00:39:37,879 Speaker 3: that's a great idea, let's do that. And it would 578 00:39:37,920 --> 00:39:41,000 Speaker 3: be so interactive. They would be drawing dinosaurs and we 579 00:39:41,040 --> 00:39:45,960 Speaker 3: would give the dinosaurs a name and they would use 580 00:39:46,000 --> 00:39:49,840 Speaker 3: that as their rating scale, and overhere is your calm dinosaur, 581 00:39:49,880 --> 00:39:53,080 Speaker 3: and overhere's your dinosaur who's freaking out a little bit 582 00:39:53,160 --> 00:39:56,680 Speaker 3: and really stressed. And they would choose which one where 583 00:39:56,680 --> 00:39:59,759 Speaker 3: they were at. And so I just started creating them 584 00:39:59,760 --> 00:40:04,239 Speaker 3: for my own personal use. And my kiddos was who 585 00:40:04,719 --> 00:40:06,920 Speaker 3: you know, they love Spider Man, so I would make 586 00:40:06,960 --> 00:40:09,320 Speaker 3: a spider web one. Or it was Halloween, so I 587 00:40:09,320 --> 00:40:11,879 Speaker 3: would create like a ghost one and just make it 588 00:40:11,960 --> 00:40:15,400 Speaker 3: fun and have fun themes for kids. And then the 589 00:40:15,440 --> 00:40:21,920 Speaker 3: pandemic hit and everybody went virtual. Everything was virtual therapy. 590 00:40:22,400 --> 00:40:23,000 Speaker 1: Wow. 591 00:40:23,200 --> 00:40:26,000 Speaker 3: And I didn't have pen and paper or whiteboards anymore. 592 00:40:26,160 --> 00:40:30,920 Speaker 3: So I started creating these PDF worksheets to put on 593 00:40:30,960 --> 00:40:33,680 Speaker 3: the screen and share on Zoom with the kids, and 594 00:40:33,719 --> 00:40:36,839 Speaker 3: they would take the zoom tools and draw on it. 595 00:40:36,920 --> 00:40:40,839 Speaker 3: And when I showed my consultant this some of these 596 00:40:40,880 --> 00:40:46,320 Speaker 3: worksheets I've created, she said, Christine, these are incredible. Where 597 00:40:46,760 --> 00:40:50,040 Speaker 3: how many do you have? Like what where are you 598 00:40:50,080 --> 00:40:52,759 Speaker 3: putting this anywhere? Are you selling this anywhere? Like other 599 00:40:52,880 --> 00:40:56,359 Speaker 3: therapists would love this, Like we need this right now 600 00:40:56,400 --> 00:40:59,440 Speaker 3: in the pandemic, Like we need more tools to do 601 00:40:59,520 --> 00:41:03,359 Speaker 3: emd are virtually with children, Like so many therapists have 602 00:41:03,480 --> 00:41:06,000 Speaker 3: no clue what to do and how to do therapy 603 00:41:06,040 --> 00:41:08,879 Speaker 3: with kids virtually right now. And you have all these 604 00:41:08,920 --> 00:41:14,080 Speaker 3: resources you need to make them available, So yeah, I 605 00:41:14,080 --> 00:41:18,440 Speaker 3: think I have about fifty worksheets. Like that's a good idea. 606 00:41:18,480 --> 00:41:21,279 Speaker 3: Maybe I'll just throw them on Etsy. I'll just so. 607 00:41:21,320 --> 00:41:24,440 Speaker 3: I in twenty twenty, I started my Etsy shop and 608 00:41:24,480 --> 00:41:27,120 Speaker 3: I just for a couple dollars, like one or two dollars, 609 00:41:27,200 --> 00:41:29,640 Speaker 3: I put a couple of worksheets up and it was 610 00:41:29,719 --> 00:41:32,200 Speaker 3: just a free down like I had some free downloads, 611 00:41:32,200 --> 00:41:35,960 Speaker 3: and then just for a couple dollars, and it totally 612 00:41:36,000 --> 00:41:41,360 Speaker 3: took off. So many people started buying those worksheets and 613 00:41:42,000 --> 00:41:45,560 Speaker 3: messaging me and asking can you create this or I've 614 00:41:45,600 --> 00:41:48,800 Speaker 3: been thinking of this idea, and other therapists are reaching 615 00:41:48,800 --> 00:41:50,840 Speaker 3: out like if you ever create something like this, I 616 00:41:50,880 --> 00:41:54,040 Speaker 3: would love to see it, please like reach back out 617 00:41:54,080 --> 00:41:58,880 Speaker 3: to me. And then I began to think maybe I 618 00:41:58,920 --> 00:42:02,719 Speaker 3: could make a comprehensive workbook out of these worksheets that 619 00:42:02,840 --> 00:42:07,840 Speaker 3: kind of kind of blossom from the necessity of a 620 00:42:08,360 --> 00:42:10,960 Speaker 3: there weren't any where. There weren't any out there, So 621 00:42:11,440 --> 00:42:14,759 Speaker 3: I created my own. And it wasn't for anybody. It 622 00:42:14,800 --> 00:42:18,839 Speaker 3: wasn't for like the mass the masses like it is now. 623 00:42:18,920 --> 00:42:22,600 Speaker 3: It was I catered it to the little ones that 624 00:42:22,640 --> 00:42:25,640 Speaker 3: I was working with, and so yeah, my original ones. 625 00:42:26,200 --> 00:42:28,239 Speaker 3: It's funny to look back on them. Now there are 626 00:42:28,640 --> 00:42:33,239 Speaker 3: these little unicorns and donuts and now it's it's this 627 00:42:33,400 --> 00:42:37,200 Speaker 3: comprehensive workbook that I'm so so proud of and it's 628 00:42:37,200 --> 00:42:40,480 Speaker 3: such a journey but really cool to just have the 629 00:42:40,480 --> 00:42:44,359 Speaker 3: help of a lot of the children that I worked with. 630 00:42:44,400 --> 00:42:46,360 Speaker 3: And now they come into my office and they're like, 631 00:42:47,400 --> 00:42:51,799 Speaker 3: was this my idea? Did you did you? I was like, 632 00:42:51,920 --> 00:42:54,920 Speaker 3: you inspired me. Yes, you helped me with that idea. 633 00:42:55,280 --> 00:42:57,600 Speaker 3: Thank you so much. And they're so proudly like to 634 00:42:57,680 --> 00:42:59,799 Speaker 3: show off and they have a copy of the book. 635 00:43:00,200 --> 00:43:04,239 Speaker 3: Tell their parents like, oh wow, miss Christine included my 636 00:43:04,320 --> 00:43:08,160 Speaker 3: idea in her book. Wow, it's really so special. 637 00:43:08,760 --> 00:43:12,800 Speaker 2: Would you say that the pandemic was kind of especially 638 00:43:13,000 --> 00:43:16,880 Speaker 2: for people that do this work of the mind, the body, 639 00:43:16,960 --> 00:43:21,319 Speaker 2: the soul. To me, I really received it as a 640 00:43:21,360 --> 00:43:26,839 Speaker 2: time of heightened creativity of like trying to find breakthrough 641 00:43:26,880 --> 00:43:31,160 Speaker 2: ways to do something on zoom but that actually are 642 00:43:31,200 --> 00:43:36,040 Speaker 2: like breakthrough ways that humanity and society needed at this 643 00:43:36,200 --> 00:43:38,759 Speaker 2: juncture of our collective experience. 644 00:43:39,520 --> 00:43:42,920 Speaker 3: Yeah, it was for me. I can definitely say that 645 00:43:43,080 --> 00:43:48,880 Speaker 3: was so true. It just unlocked this this creative part 646 00:43:48,960 --> 00:43:53,080 Speaker 3: of me and the need for it, the drive behind it, 647 00:43:53,239 --> 00:43:59,240 Speaker 3: and so many other creative ideas or needs really of Hey, 648 00:43:59,360 --> 00:44:02,680 Speaker 3: I would love to see this in Spanish, Like do 649 00:44:02,760 --> 00:44:05,759 Speaker 3: you have like a version of this so I could 650 00:44:05,800 --> 00:44:10,680 Speaker 3: do it with my monolingual Spanish speaking children. Can you 651 00:44:10,719 --> 00:44:13,839 Speaker 3: make a taco scale or like a hot sauce water? 652 00:44:14,040 --> 00:44:14,319 Speaker 1: You know? 653 00:44:14,480 --> 00:44:19,080 Speaker 3: Just like bringing identity and culture into it was so 654 00:44:21,640 --> 00:44:24,479 Speaker 3: like mind blowing for me, Like yeah, like I haven't 655 00:44:24,480 --> 00:44:30,080 Speaker 3: thought about that, Like let's I'm not I took Spanish, 656 00:44:30,200 --> 00:44:32,360 Speaker 3: but I would need someone else's help to help me 657 00:44:32,440 --> 00:44:35,719 Speaker 3: translate some of these worksheets, but we can definitely make 658 00:44:35,760 --> 00:44:39,640 Speaker 3: them available in Spanish. And I'm actually working with my 659 00:44:39,640 --> 00:44:44,279 Speaker 3: publisher right now to get the workbook published in multiple languages. 660 00:44:44,560 --> 00:44:45,239 Speaker 1: Amazing. 661 00:44:45,360 --> 00:44:49,000 Speaker 3: So it's going to be a wild journey and very 662 00:44:49,320 --> 00:44:53,200 Speaker 3: very cool to see that this can help so many children, 663 00:44:53,760 --> 00:44:55,960 Speaker 3: not just the US, but so many other countries. 664 00:45:00,040 --> 00:45:05,239 Speaker 1: Deeply, Wow, what. 665 00:45:05,239 --> 00:45:09,360 Speaker 2: Can we be doing better as a society at in 666 00:45:10,000 --> 00:45:13,080 Speaker 2: really supporting our children and our adolescents? 667 00:45:13,719 --> 00:45:18,840 Speaker 3: I think just showing up and I think everyone has 668 00:45:19,200 --> 00:45:24,240 Speaker 3: the It's so simple. This can be challenging and hard 669 00:45:24,000 --> 00:45:28,560 Speaker 3: with life and the things we go through as adults. 670 00:45:28,640 --> 00:45:32,399 Speaker 3: I think if you are just consistent and you show 671 00:45:32,480 --> 00:45:35,560 Speaker 3: up with the children in your life, the teens in 672 00:45:35,600 --> 00:45:38,280 Speaker 3: your life, that's going to make such a big difference. 673 00:45:38,920 --> 00:45:41,960 Speaker 3: And showing up and being present. I think that mindfulness 674 00:45:42,000 --> 00:45:48,840 Speaker 3: of just being there is so important, and it's this, Okay, well, 675 00:45:48,880 --> 00:45:50,560 Speaker 3: how do I get there? Maybe I do need to 676 00:45:50,600 --> 00:45:54,480 Speaker 3: work through some trauma to be present and to show up, 677 00:45:54,600 --> 00:45:57,120 Speaker 3: or maybe I just need to make time right, Maybe 678 00:45:57,160 --> 00:46:01,080 Speaker 3: I need to prioritize certain things to show up. So 679 00:46:01,120 --> 00:46:04,920 Speaker 3: I think every parent is going to show up in 680 00:46:04,960 --> 00:46:05,720 Speaker 3: different ways. 681 00:46:06,120 --> 00:46:06,920 Speaker 1: Yeah, And. 682 00:46:08,880 --> 00:46:10,880 Speaker 3: How do you show up with your children in a 683 00:46:10,920 --> 00:46:18,040 Speaker 3: way that is meaningful and has this connection. That's it's 684 00:46:18,080 --> 00:46:21,120 Speaker 3: a two way street. You know, your children are pouring 685 00:46:21,160 --> 00:46:24,400 Speaker 3: into your cup, but you're also pouring into theirs and 686 00:46:24,440 --> 00:46:27,279 Speaker 3: finding those activities and things that you do together for 687 00:46:27,360 --> 00:46:28,360 Speaker 3: that quality time. 688 00:46:28,600 --> 00:46:30,040 Speaker 1: I love that so much. 689 00:46:30,160 --> 00:46:33,879 Speaker 2: That has been I used to say that I, you know, well, 690 00:46:33,880 --> 00:46:38,359 Speaker 2: I used to meditate for my healing, for how I 691 00:46:38,360 --> 00:46:41,640 Speaker 2: wanted to show up in the world in my work, 692 00:46:42,520 --> 00:46:46,960 Speaker 2: And now I find myself really connecting with meditation for 693 00:46:47,680 --> 00:46:51,080 Speaker 2: the space that gives me as a mother inside of myself, 694 00:46:51,280 --> 00:46:55,360 Speaker 2: Like it really changes the way I'm able to be 695 00:46:55,400 --> 00:46:59,279 Speaker 2: present with my son, and I know, you know, for 696 00:46:59,400 --> 00:47:02,160 Speaker 2: parents listening, I would love to share a practice I 697 00:47:02,239 --> 00:47:06,520 Speaker 2: do because sometimes these concepts sound amazing, but if you 698 00:47:06,640 --> 00:47:12,080 Speaker 2: are exhausted, it's really hard. And depending on what your 699 00:47:12,200 --> 00:47:15,479 Speaker 2: home looks like. You know, not everyone has a long 700 00:47:15,600 --> 00:47:21,080 Speaker 2: wide tribe or community or family system, you know. For 701 00:47:21,120 --> 00:47:24,960 Speaker 2: the single moms like myself, it's you may not have 702 00:47:25,120 --> 00:47:29,239 Speaker 2: extra time to find time. But something that I do 703 00:47:29,280 --> 00:47:33,120 Speaker 2: that really helps me is when I'm looking to really 704 00:47:33,200 --> 00:47:37,000 Speaker 2: create some of that special locked in present moment at time, 705 00:47:37,080 --> 00:47:39,600 Speaker 2: like we are playing, We're looking each other in the eyes. 706 00:47:40,680 --> 00:47:47,080 Speaker 2: It's unstructured, We're just really connecting our energies. Whenever I 707 00:47:47,120 --> 00:47:50,759 Speaker 2: feel this pull inside that's leading me to everything that 708 00:47:50,840 --> 00:47:53,560 Speaker 2: I have to do tomorrow, to all the things throughout 709 00:47:53,560 --> 00:47:56,080 Speaker 2: the house that need to be done, through the lists 710 00:47:56,160 --> 00:48:00,560 Speaker 2: that are just never ending in our lives. I use 711 00:48:00,640 --> 00:48:05,640 Speaker 2: this word with myself a lot. I say just melt, melt, melt, melt, 712 00:48:06,080 --> 00:48:07,919 Speaker 2: and I'll be sitting there with him and he'll watch 713 00:48:07,960 --> 00:48:19,640 Speaker 2: me do this practice, and I'll take a deep breath, melt, melt, 714 00:48:20,320 --> 00:48:24,040 Speaker 2: melt out, and I'll just say that, and I kind 715 00:48:24,080 --> 00:48:27,839 Speaker 2: of envision myself literally melting into whatever seat I'm in, 716 00:48:27,960 --> 00:48:31,520 Speaker 2: or into the floorboards of the ground, and it instantly 717 00:48:31,560 --> 00:48:35,000 Speaker 2: creates this new container for me that lets me be 718 00:48:35,120 --> 00:48:39,600 Speaker 2: even more present with my precious one and those moments. 719 00:48:39,719 --> 00:48:42,200 Speaker 2: You know, it's not how It's not as much how 720 00:48:42,320 --> 00:48:45,920 Speaker 2: much time you have to spend. Is what's the depth 721 00:48:46,000 --> 00:48:48,400 Speaker 2: of the time that you're spending. What's the quality of 722 00:48:48,440 --> 00:48:52,239 Speaker 2: the time that you're spending. Are you letting them be 723 00:48:52,560 --> 00:48:58,279 Speaker 2: really seen, you know, really held, really connected to So 724 00:48:58,680 --> 00:49:01,800 Speaker 2: it is challenging depending on the background. I know sometimes 725 00:49:01,840 --> 00:49:05,600 Speaker 2: we share information on this show that can get stuck 726 00:49:05,680 --> 00:49:09,120 Speaker 2: in theory for a lot of people. If you don't 727 00:49:09,160 --> 00:49:13,279 Speaker 2: know some of the more tangible, slower ways to implement it. 728 00:49:13,280 --> 00:49:15,960 Speaker 2: It's not going to be a massive change all the time. 729 00:49:16,080 --> 00:49:20,200 Speaker 2: It's not rainbows and puppies. It's not perfection. It is 730 00:49:21,000 --> 00:49:24,000 Speaker 2: can I give a little more of me to my 731 00:49:24,160 --> 00:49:29,640 Speaker 2: child in this exact moment. I have one more question 732 00:49:30,000 --> 00:49:32,600 Speaker 2: I'd like to ask you, and it is a big question. 733 00:49:33,000 --> 00:49:38,040 Speaker 2: What are some ways that parents can start to notice 734 00:49:38,120 --> 00:49:42,319 Speaker 2: their child's experience a little more? Are there any signs 735 00:49:43,120 --> 00:49:47,600 Speaker 2: that show themselves in subtle ways for trauma or your 736 00:49:47,680 --> 00:49:51,640 Speaker 2: child being under duress or having an experience that they 737 00:49:51,719 --> 00:49:55,080 Speaker 2: don't know how to process and move forward from. How 738 00:49:55,120 --> 00:49:58,239 Speaker 2: can we be more aware of what's happening in our 739 00:49:58,320 --> 00:50:01,480 Speaker 2: children's in our lives now? I think it starts with 740 00:50:01,680 --> 00:50:07,040 Speaker 2: knowing your child's baseline and what their. 741 00:50:08,040 --> 00:50:12,640 Speaker 3: Normal is. Like my child is normally quiet and shy, 742 00:50:12,840 --> 00:50:18,040 Speaker 3: that's just their personality, that's you know, they enjoy quiet 743 00:50:18,080 --> 00:50:27,800 Speaker 3: activities reading, or is your child more you know, energetic, rambunctious, hyper. 744 00:50:28,560 --> 00:50:33,480 Speaker 3: I think most parents have a general idea of what 745 00:50:33,520 --> 00:50:38,160 Speaker 3: their child's baseline is and when it's different from that 746 00:50:38,400 --> 00:50:43,960 Speaker 3: after something scary has happened, and maybe it's just sometimes 747 00:50:44,000 --> 00:50:49,279 Speaker 3: it's just normal life stuff like grief and loss. A 748 00:50:49,320 --> 00:50:52,839 Speaker 3: grandparent passes away, right, a dog pass a family pet 749 00:50:52,920 --> 00:50:56,120 Speaker 3: passes away, and your child's a little different. Maybe they 750 00:50:56,400 --> 00:51:01,400 Speaker 3: are more attention seeking now and vocal, or maybe they're 751 00:51:01,440 --> 00:51:05,239 Speaker 3: withdrawing a little bit more and that's unlike them. So 752 00:51:05,320 --> 00:51:11,400 Speaker 3: it's paying attention to how is my child acting and 753 00:51:11,480 --> 00:51:13,400 Speaker 3: behaving and is this. 754 00:51:14,760 --> 00:51:15,200 Speaker 1: Normal? 755 00:51:15,400 --> 00:51:19,640 Speaker 3: It's normal. It's a human experience to feel sad, like 756 00:51:19,719 --> 00:51:24,000 Speaker 3: after your pet fish has tied or your grandparent. You know, 757 00:51:24,040 --> 00:51:29,920 Speaker 3: there's these normal emotions that we experience and so not 758 00:51:29,960 --> 00:51:32,799 Speaker 3: getting hyper vigilant. Oh my gosh, I need my child 759 00:51:32,840 --> 00:51:35,439 Speaker 3: to go to therapy right now because they're really sad. Well, yeah, 760 00:51:35,440 --> 00:51:38,600 Speaker 3: they're supposed to be sad right now because Grandma just 761 00:51:38,640 --> 00:51:46,160 Speaker 3: passed away. But when is it abnormal? And typically if 762 00:51:46,160 --> 00:51:50,920 Speaker 3: you see your child not being themselves and they're not 763 00:51:51,080 --> 00:51:54,880 Speaker 3: at their baseline, I would say four to six weeks. 764 00:51:55,880 --> 00:51:59,480 Speaker 3: Beyond four to six weeks after something has happened, then 765 00:51:59,480 --> 00:52:03,000 Speaker 3: that's where we want to maybe try different things. And 766 00:52:03,040 --> 00:52:08,200 Speaker 3: it doesn't have to be as intentive as therapy. It 767 00:52:08,320 --> 00:52:14,560 Speaker 3: might be Hey, maybe it's signing the family up for summer, 768 00:52:14,960 --> 00:52:17,759 Speaker 3: you know, summer activity, or doing something kind of just 769 00:52:17,800 --> 00:52:22,000 Speaker 3: like to pull the out of the everyday routine, like 770 00:52:22,280 --> 00:52:24,200 Speaker 3: changing it up a little bit. Let's change up this 771 00:52:24,360 --> 00:52:28,000 Speaker 3: routine and this pattern and kind of shake it up 772 00:52:28,040 --> 00:52:33,319 Speaker 3: a little bit so that there's some movement. And maybe 773 00:52:33,360 --> 00:52:39,880 Speaker 3: it's reconnecting with community and their friends or a sport 774 00:52:40,120 --> 00:52:43,439 Speaker 3: or something. You know, there's so many therapeutic weight there's 775 00:52:43,440 --> 00:52:46,879 Speaker 3: so many outlets, and therapy is one of them. It's 776 00:52:46,920 --> 00:52:52,080 Speaker 3: a great option, but it doesn't always need to be 777 00:52:52,160 --> 00:52:55,160 Speaker 3: the only option. When it gets to that point, I 778 00:52:55,200 --> 00:52:58,040 Speaker 3: think being aware of what your child's baseline is and 779 00:52:58,080 --> 00:53:01,120 Speaker 3: then helping them to make a change in that. I 780 00:53:01,160 --> 00:53:08,239 Speaker 3: know some parents who have the resources they you know, 781 00:53:08,320 --> 00:53:11,120 Speaker 3: they can go on vacation somewhere. I'm going to just 782 00:53:11,280 --> 00:53:13,040 Speaker 3: change the environment. 783 00:53:14,680 --> 00:53:18,200 Speaker 2: Another And if you don't, that could also potentially look 784 00:53:18,320 --> 00:53:20,879 Speaker 2: like maybe going to a park on a different side 785 00:53:20,880 --> 00:53:24,320 Speaker 2: of town and it's different area, or you know, doing 786 00:53:24,480 --> 00:53:27,600 Speaker 2: some of the day to day free things that you 787 00:53:27,719 --> 00:53:31,279 Speaker 2: enjoy with your child, but maybe thirty minutes out or 788 00:53:31,440 --> 00:53:33,360 Speaker 2: you know, take a drive somewhere else. 789 00:53:33,920 --> 00:53:36,600 Speaker 3: Yeah, and you know, for pet loss, I have parents 790 00:53:36,640 --> 00:53:41,359 Speaker 3: who like take their child to the SPCA and just 791 00:53:41,480 --> 00:53:44,120 Speaker 3: like help out with the dogs and the kittens, or 792 00:53:44,680 --> 00:53:46,839 Speaker 3: you know, go to pet Co or pet Smart where 793 00:53:46,840 --> 00:53:50,200 Speaker 3: there's like some animals and you know, you just look 794 00:53:50,239 --> 00:53:52,120 Speaker 3: at the fish in the store or whatnot. It's just 795 00:53:52,440 --> 00:53:54,920 Speaker 3: there's so many different ways you can just change up 796 00:53:55,040 --> 00:54:00,279 Speaker 3: the everyday routines and routine and structure is good, but 797 00:54:00,320 --> 00:54:02,960 Speaker 3: I think sometimes just change it up. Have something to 798 00:54:02,960 --> 00:54:07,000 Speaker 3: look forward to. Children and adults, we like to have 799 00:54:07,080 --> 00:54:11,960 Speaker 3: something to look forward to. And yeah, I think that 800 00:54:12,760 --> 00:54:16,880 Speaker 3: would be my biggest advice for parents. Know your child's 801 00:54:16,920 --> 00:54:19,200 Speaker 3: baseline and when it strays away from that. 802 00:54:19,719 --> 00:54:24,400 Speaker 2: For those that are parents or those that are in 803 00:54:24,520 --> 00:54:29,800 Speaker 2: community with children, what are some signs that a child 804 00:54:29,880 --> 00:54:35,080 Speaker 2: may be letting you know that they are experiencing trauma 805 00:54:35,640 --> 00:54:37,240 Speaker 2: or experiencing abuse. 806 00:54:38,640 --> 00:54:42,920 Speaker 3: Yeah, I think again, it's going to be different for 807 00:54:43,040 --> 00:54:50,600 Speaker 3: each child. You know, some children are going to their 808 00:54:50,680 --> 00:54:56,000 Speaker 3: trauma is going to be shown through aggression and harming 809 00:54:56,040 --> 00:55:00,880 Speaker 3: others in a certain way. Well, on the other end 810 00:55:00,880 --> 00:55:04,480 Speaker 3: of the spectrum, some children are going to be really 811 00:55:04,560 --> 00:55:10,120 Speaker 3: quiet about it, very secretive. I think it depends on 812 00:55:10,160 --> 00:55:13,480 Speaker 3: the type of trauma too. So I mean some traumas 813 00:55:13,520 --> 00:55:17,200 Speaker 3: are like if a child's being physically abused, you really 814 00:55:17,360 --> 00:55:20,520 Speaker 3: you see bruises, you see some of those things. And 815 00:55:20,560 --> 00:55:24,920 Speaker 3: then there's some traumas that are invisible, right the sexual trauma, 816 00:55:25,640 --> 00:55:29,680 Speaker 3: verbal abuse. You know, of a child's going home every 817 00:55:29,719 --> 00:55:35,880 Speaker 3: day and someone's name calling them, or they're experiencing or 818 00:55:35,920 --> 00:55:39,560 Speaker 3: witnessing domestic violence and they're not getting harmed themselves. It 819 00:55:39,600 --> 00:55:43,120 Speaker 3: could be so invisible. So again I think still it's 820 00:55:43,320 --> 00:55:49,600 Speaker 3: that baseline of houses child normally, and then what has 821 00:55:49,719 --> 00:55:53,200 Speaker 3: changed if something different has happened. Paying attention to the 822 00:55:53,400 --> 00:55:57,919 Speaker 3: children who make loud statements of I need help. They're 823 00:55:57,920 --> 00:56:01,560 Speaker 3: crying out for help, but also the quiet one who 824 00:56:01,560 --> 00:56:05,600 Speaker 3: are like, I'm invisible, don't pick on me. Nope, nothing, nothing, 825 00:56:05,640 --> 00:56:09,400 Speaker 3: I'm a wallflower and that's their protective That's how they 826 00:56:09,480 --> 00:56:14,200 Speaker 3: protect themselves at home. Be a wallflower, be invisible, so 827 00:56:14,280 --> 00:56:16,240 Speaker 3: now you don't get hurt. Wow. 828 00:56:18,600 --> 00:56:19,160 Speaker 1: Thank you. 829 00:56:21,320 --> 00:56:24,319 Speaker 2: For those that are connecting to this episode. How can 830 00:56:24,360 --> 00:56:28,400 Speaker 2: they further connect with you? I would love to connect 831 00:56:28,440 --> 00:56:31,879 Speaker 2: with everyone more. You can find me online. I have 832 00:56:32,200 --> 00:56:36,400 Speaker 2: my website is spark All Wellness and that's the same 833 00:56:36,520 --> 00:56:41,680 Speaker 2: Instagram handle. You can find me on Instagram. And I 834 00:56:41,840 --> 00:56:44,440 Speaker 2: just launched a YouTube channel and it's going to be 835 00:56:44,520 --> 00:56:49,560 Speaker 2: dedicated to EMDR videos for children. So we have a 836 00:56:49,600 --> 00:56:52,560 Speaker 2: couple of videos up that I just launched two weeks ago. 837 00:56:53,320 --> 00:56:58,080 Speaker 3: I'm super excited. It's geared towards children for therapists to use. 838 00:56:58,280 --> 00:57:00,319 Speaker 3: You can be any kind of therapist, you don't have 839 00:57:00,400 --> 00:57:04,480 Speaker 3: to be an EMGR therapist, but also a resource for 840 00:57:04,560 --> 00:57:07,760 Speaker 3: parents to use with their children at home in between 841 00:57:07,800 --> 00:57:08,760 Speaker 3: therapy sessions. 842 00:57:09,719 --> 00:57:11,360 Speaker 1: Wow Wow. 843 00:57:12,160 --> 00:57:15,040 Speaker 2: At the end of every episode, we extend to those 844 00:57:15,080 --> 00:57:18,080 Speaker 2: that are connecting to a little bit of what we 845 00:57:18,160 --> 00:57:21,720 Speaker 2: call soul work, so that can be as they move 846 00:57:21,800 --> 00:57:27,440 Speaker 2: through this episode, the way the thoughts or practice that 847 00:57:27,480 --> 00:57:31,200 Speaker 2: they could be sinking their teeth into throughout the week 848 00:57:31,360 --> 00:57:34,880 Speaker 2: until we meet again. So I'd love to ask you 849 00:57:34,920 --> 00:57:39,000 Speaker 2: to share maybe a practice or a thought or prompt 850 00:57:39,480 --> 00:57:42,720 Speaker 2: to close out the episode for everyone listening. 851 00:57:43,320 --> 00:57:49,680 Speaker 3: I would love to so in EMDR, we have this 852 00:57:49,720 --> 00:57:57,520 Speaker 3: intervention called future Templighting, and it's essentially visualizing the best 853 00:57:57,600 --> 00:58:06,280 Speaker 3: version of yourself handling challenge but handling it as your 854 00:58:06,320 --> 00:58:10,880 Speaker 3: best self. What do you look like, what do you say? 855 00:58:12,520 --> 00:58:18,760 Speaker 3: What's your posture? What emotions are you feeling as you 856 00:58:20,080 --> 00:58:24,760 Speaker 3: handle this challenge in your best self? What does your 857 00:58:24,840 --> 00:58:31,760 Speaker 3: body feel like as you're handling this challenging situation as 858 00:58:31,800 --> 00:58:40,920 Speaker 3: your best self? And just imagine, just be there, imagine 859 00:58:40,960 --> 00:58:47,600 Speaker 3: yourself handling those challenges and know that it's within you, 860 00:58:49,240 --> 00:58:55,160 Speaker 3: It's always there, and you can access this best self 861 00:58:58,040 --> 00:59:04,080 Speaker 3: for all those challenges that are to come. That's beautiful. 862 00:59:04,120 --> 00:59:09,680 Speaker 3: Thank you, Thank you for joining us on this episode. 863 00:59:09,080 --> 00:59:14,040 Speaker 2: Of Deeply Well. Your beautiful book. EMDR Workbook for Kids 864 00:59:14,280 --> 00:59:18,000 Speaker 2: is available everywhere. Order it on Amazon I Amazon Prime 865 00:59:18,080 --> 00:59:22,520 Speaker 2: Date got it the same day. So yeah, you know, 866 00:59:22,600 --> 00:59:27,760 Speaker 2: I really believe something I enjoyed. One of the things 867 00:59:27,800 --> 00:59:31,480 Speaker 2: I enjoyed about your book is, you know, I think, 868 00:59:31,520 --> 00:59:34,960 Speaker 2: whether you are a parent or just a living being 869 00:59:35,160 --> 00:59:38,760 Speaker 2: that is on this planet with children, it could be 870 00:59:38,840 --> 00:59:41,880 Speaker 2: really powerful to have a copy of this to just 871 00:59:42,120 --> 00:59:46,040 Speaker 2: help you navigate and understand how maybe you can show 872 00:59:46,120 --> 00:59:49,120 Speaker 2: up in service a little bit more in every interaction 873 00:59:49,280 --> 00:59:52,720 Speaker 2: that you have with a child. I believe with my 874 00:59:52,920 --> 00:59:57,000 Speaker 2: whole heart and soul, how important that is every child 875 00:59:57,160 --> 01:00:02,680 Speaker 2: you pass, if there's this space for it in your 876 01:00:02,720 --> 01:00:06,440 Speaker 2: heart and in the time and the interaction to impart 877 01:00:06,560 --> 01:00:09,000 Speaker 2: something and it doesn't have to be wisdom. It could 878 01:00:09,000 --> 01:00:10,960 Speaker 2: be that you look to that child in the eye. 879 01:00:11,520 --> 01:00:13,800 Speaker 2: It could be that you shared a smile with them 880 01:00:13,800 --> 01:00:18,640 Speaker 2: as they passed you, or just an observation. I really 881 01:00:18,720 --> 01:00:23,000 Speaker 2: live my life in that way. And I believe that 882 01:00:23,080 --> 01:00:27,880 Speaker 2: we can have in every moment a tremendous opportunity to 883 01:00:27,960 --> 01:00:30,600 Speaker 2: be a vessel for God and to shine light on 884 01:00:30,720 --> 01:00:34,160 Speaker 2: someone that you may have no idea what's happening in 885 01:00:34,200 --> 01:00:36,000 Speaker 2: their life, and how much that could mean. 886 01:00:36,720 --> 01:00:38,720 Speaker 1: Yes, I love that. 887 01:00:39,440 --> 01:00:42,320 Speaker 2: Thank you so much, Christine, Thank you for joining us. 888 01:00:42,400 --> 01:00:45,480 Speaker 2: I'm so honored. Thank you for having me. We will 889 01:00:45,520 --> 01:00:48,680 Speaker 2: be back next week. Thank you for joining us, not mistake. 890 01:00:52,880 --> 01:00:56,320 Speaker 2: Connect with me on social at Debbie Brown. That's Twitter 891 01:00:56,360 --> 01:00:59,240 Speaker 2: and Instagram, or you can go to my website Debbie 892 01:00:59,240 --> 01:01:01,920 Speaker 2: Brown dot com. And if you're listening to the show 893 01:01:02,040 --> 01:01:06,760 Speaker 2: on Apple Podcasts, don't forget. Please rate, review, and subscribe 894 01:01:07,080 --> 01:01:09,960 Speaker 2: and send this episode to a friend. Deeply Well is 895 01:01:10,000 --> 01:01:13,240 Speaker 2: a production of iHeartRadio and The Black Effect Network. It's 896 01:01:13,280 --> 01:01:17,920 Speaker 2: produced by Jacquess Thomas, Samantha Timmins, and me Debbie Brown. 897 01:01:18,560 --> 01:01:22,600 Speaker 2: The beautiful Soundback You Heard That's by Jarrelen Glass from 898 01:01:22,680 --> 01:01:27,920 Speaker 2: Crystal Cadence. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio 899 01:01:27,960 --> 01:01:31,080 Speaker 2: app or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.