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Speaker 1: Welcome to Invention, a production of I Heart Radio. Hey,

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Speaker 1: welcome to Invention. My name is Robert Lamb, and I'm

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Speaker 1: Joe McCormick. And today we're gonna be talking about barbed wire,

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Speaker 1: which which for me, it's it's interesting to just think

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Speaker 1: about how varied our thoughts can be just basic word

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Speaker 1: association with barbed wire, because when when I just instantly

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Speaker 1: think of the word without a lot of prepping, you know,

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Speaker 1: of course I think of barbed wire barriers often. Uh.

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Speaker 1: In particular, I think about barbed wire that is uh

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Speaker 1: like in the woods, uh, you know, wrapped around old trees,

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Speaker 1: and the it kind of grow the tree has grown

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Speaker 1: around the barbed wire in this kind of grotesque way,

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Speaker 1: but also the the tree is kind of conquering the

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Speaker 1: barbed wire, So I think of that. I of course

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Speaker 1: think of metal fences, the tops of metal fences, particularly

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Speaker 1: to keep people out of the industrial areas. You see

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Speaker 1: that a lot in the urban environment. And then of

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Speaker 1: course I think about its use and say hell raised

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Speaker 1: or horror films, you know, event Horizon, or of course

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Speaker 1: the violent stunts that you see perpetrated sometimes in professional wrestling.

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Speaker 1: I definitely assumed there was a pro wrestling angle that

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Speaker 1: led you to this topic. Yeah, well no, no, I

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Speaker 1: wouldn't say that that led me to the to the topic.

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Speaker 1: I'm not sure what exactly, you know, I can't remember

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Speaker 1: what made me think this would be a good one

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Speaker 1: to look into. Um. Probably, I mean, part of it

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Speaker 1: could be just the fact that there is barbed wire everywhere.

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Speaker 1: We we tend to not see it even as we

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Speaker 1: see it. And I mean part of that is just

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Speaker 1: the nature of say a barbed wire fence or or

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Speaker 1: or cyclone fencing. This topped with barbed wire, is that,

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Speaker 1: of course you can see through it, you can see

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Speaker 1: what's on the other side. To a certain extent, it

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Speaker 1: is it is almost invisible, but yet it is there,

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Speaker 1: and it is uh, you know, if you've stopped to

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Speaker 1: really think about it, it's it's quite an oppressive presence

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Speaker 1: to have in the world around to its peak hostile architecture. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: because you know, just to go a little deeper, um,

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Speaker 1: in terms of associating barbed wire with what it's been

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Speaker 1: used for, I mean, we we have to realize that

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Speaker 1: it's been used to divide up the natural world and

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Speaker 1: enforce artificial barriers to both wildlife and humans. It's been

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Speaker 1: used to enforce contested borders. It was used to create

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Speaker 1: the physical barriers of Nazi prisoner of war camps, and

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Speaker 1: most infamously of all the fences of concentration and death

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Speaker 1: camps during the Holocaust. It's used to enclose human prisoners,

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Speaker 1: and in all of its uses against humans and with

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Speaker 1: human populations, I mean, it carries with it the threat

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Speaker 1: of ripped and torn flesh. It doesn't just prevent you

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Speaker 1: from crossing. It threatens you. I mean it says not

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Speaker 1: just like I'm going to make it hard for you

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Speaker 1: to get past this point, but it says you will

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Speaker 1: get injured if you try to get past this point.

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Speaker 1: It will be difficult and or unpleasant. Uh, So you'd

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Speaker 1: better stay on your side of the fence, your side

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Speaker 1: of the barbed wire. Now all that is, you know,

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Speaker 1: kind of dark and grotesque and oppressive and so forth. Um,

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Speaker 1: but the entire episode is not necessarily going to be

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Speaker 1: as grim. Barbed wire has a pretty fascinating history, uh

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Speaker 1: in the United States and in Europe. And we'll get

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Speaker 1: into that even as we discuss its its uses and

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Speaker 1: and also some of the times and places where people

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Speaker 1: tried to make it a little more, a little tamer,

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Speaker 1: I guess, but generally barbed wire is still going to

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Speaker 1: be barbed wire, uh, no matter how you twist it.

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Speaker 1: So as usual, let's first talk about what came before

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Speaker 1: barbed wire. Okay, I figured this is a good place

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Speaker 1: to call out one of the main sources that we're

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Speaker 1: going to be referring to in this episode, which was

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Speaker 1: a good chapter on the history of barbed wire in

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Speaker 1: a book called The Devil's Rope, A Cultural History of

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Speaker 1: barbed Wire by Alan Krell, who is an associate professor

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Speaker 1: at the School of Art History and Art Education at

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Speaker 1: the University of New South Wales. And so a lot

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Speaker 1: of this book is actually more in the kind of

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Speaker 1: art history realm is talking about symbolism and stuff. But

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Speaker 1: but he he works Jesus of Nazareth into the first chapter. Well,

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Speaker 1: it's interesting when you look at like the early days

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Speaker 1: of barbed wire, what was the closest precedent you might

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Speaker 1: find in the imagery around you for this twisted, thorny

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Speaker 1: strand of material. It was probably going to be like

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Speaker 1: the crown of thorns that you would see on Jesus's

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Speaker 1: head in medieval artwork. Yeah, yeah, so so it's really

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Speaker 1: is a natural um transformation to go from uh, from

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Speaker 1: a crown of thorns to potentially, you know, like crown

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Speaker 1: of barbed wire, which is the author points out, like

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Speaker 1: you see this kind of imagery thrown around even in

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Speaker 1: the early literature about barbed wire. So uh, for the

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Speaker 1: most part, we're talking about inventions and innovations of the

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Speaker 1: nineteenth century here. Prior to the nineteenth century, humans obviously

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Speaker 1: had a robust collection of barrier technologies up their sleeves.

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Speaker 1: Wall infants technologies extend back to ancient time, and we

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Speaker 1: mentioned a lot of this in our previous invention episode

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Speaker 1: on walls. Among the earliest known defensive walls are the

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Speaker 1: ancient walls of Mesopotamia, specifically those constructed in the twenty

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Speaker 1: first century b c. E. By this by the Sumerian

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Speaker 1: rulers Shulgi and Shu sin Uh. And of course this

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Speaker 1: would refer to the earliest like territorial border wall we

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Speaker 1: can find evidence of now, Like if you're just talking

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Speaker 1: about defensive walls for like castles or towns or buildings,

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Speaker 1: that's much much older. That's going to go back many centuries. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: And as for fencing itself, and it is in the

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Speaker 1: construction of fences as opposed to full on walls. Uh,

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Speaker 1: The ancient history here is also murky and impossible to

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Speaker 1: nail down. I was looking at old fences in Archaeology

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Speaker 1: by Arnie Innarison, presented at the eighty fourth Annual Meeting

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Speaker 1: of the Society for American Archaeology, and the author points

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Speaker 1: out that fences are just a prominent feature of most

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Speaker 1: cultural landscapes and that they frequently play to land division

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Speaker 1: and on farm grazing management. So, you know, it stands

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Speaker 1: to reason that we can we can roughly, I guess,

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Speaker 1: think of fencing as a product of the agricultural revolution.

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Speaker 1: But on the other hand, nomadic herdsmen seemingly made use

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Speaker 1: of animal pins and essentially fences as well in their

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Speaker 1: temporary settlements. So it really goes back far in human history.

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Speaker 1: There is no you know, no individual person or culture

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Speaker 1: we can point to and say, hey, they came up

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Speaker 1: with fencing. Yeah, And I think when you go back

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Speaker 1: farther into history, most fencing is going to be for

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Speaker 1: the control of animals rather than for the control of humans. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: you're talking about just mild barriers to make managing your

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Speaker 1: your various domesticated animals a little easier, so let's fast

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Speaker 1: forward a bit all the way to nineteenth century see

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Speaker 1: America and Europe, but specifically America, because this is where

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Speaker 1: we encounter the the European settler's dream of manifest destiny,

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Speaker 1: the idea that here is the American frontier spread before us,

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Speaker 1: and it is it is ours for the taking by

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Speaker 1: divine right. And part of this, uh, this whole vision,

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Speaker 1: of course, is the idea that you just have these

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Speaker 1: these vast empty stretches of land. Right. Of course, in reality,

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Speaker 1: these lands were far from unoccupied. Uh. There were, of

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Speaker 1: course animals living there, as with any you know, any

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Speaker 1: of the continents, you have large megafauna that that required

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Speaker 1: large areas to roam around in. But you know, also

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Speaker 1: had native peoples that had lived here for at least

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Speaker 1: fifteen thousand years. But in spite of all that, you know,

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Speaker 1: it was decided that everybody was going to get a

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Speaker 1: chance to have a piece of this unclaimed frontier. So,

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Speaker 1: as Eleanor Commins outlined in a Brief History of barbed

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Speaker 1: Wire for Popular Science, Abraham Lincoln's Homestead Act of eighteen

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Speaker 1: sixty two opened it up for any American to claim

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Speaker 1: uh one sixty acres of public land per citizen. All

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Speaker 1: you had to do is go out there claimant. And

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Speaker 1: of course, what are you gonna do, Maybe throw a

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Speaker 1: fence around. And so the land was divided, the land

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Speaker 1: was worked and transformed. And if you're looking to keep

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Speaker 1: animals on your property uh and or keep other animals

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Speaker 1: off of it, it does pay to build some fences.

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Speaker 1: But while the American Frontier wasn't all empty planes and

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Speaker 1: you know barren, uh, you know, the Great American Desert

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Speaker 1: and so forth, there are still plenty of areas where

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Speaker 1: there is a lack of trees and wood. And therefore

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Speaker 1: it made traditional fences a difficult proposition. And it also

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Speaker 1: took you know more, It took longer than was comfortable

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Speaker 1: in many cases to gross a hedgerows to serve as

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Speaker 1: natural barriers. And so settlers begin to experiment with the

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Speaker 1: use of wire for fencing. And this makes sense, right

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Speaker 1: You use less wood uh and or depend on fewer

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Speaker 1: post trees this way. Plus, despite the weight metal, wire

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Speaker 1: travels rather well. Yeah, wire is a pretty natural solution here.

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Speaker 1: Wire fencing is less likely to be harmed by the weather.

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Speaker 1: It doesn't get blown down by high winds because it

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Speaker 1: doesn't have a flat side to catch the gales. It

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Speaker 1: doesn't get weighed down by snow in the terer, it

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Speaker 1: doesn't catch fire if it gets struck by lightning. Wire

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Speaker 1: fencing is kind of a perfect solution for the planes. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and it you know, it doesn't last forever, but it

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Speaker 1: certainly stands the test of time. I mean, I feel

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Speaker 1: like a lot of my childhood involved encountering old wire

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Speaker 1: fences or barbed wire fences that no longer have any purpose.

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Speaker 1: They're just there in the woods or you know, and

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Speaker 1: they're just they have survived, while everything else is just

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Speaker 1: a ghost of of whatever settlement it was a part of.

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Speaker 1: It was one of my favorite kinds of things to

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Speaker 1: discover as a good kid. You know, I would roam

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Speaker 1: through the woods and you'd find like a half buried

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Speaker 1: old barbed wire fence. Yeah, it's like that, maybe a

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Speaker 1: sunken grave, and of course, you know, like a line

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Speaker 1: of of buttercups that still come up marking some walkway

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Speaker 1: to a lost house of some sort. But there is

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Speaker 1: a downside to wire fences, which is that they're not

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Speaker 1: super strong, especially if you know they might be strong

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Speaker 1: for a human to try to get through. But imagine

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Speaker 1: you are a bull or a bison. Yeah, large animals

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Speaker 1: like this, a cow, bison, a horse, they can simply

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Speaker 1: tear into it, make a mess of it, and maybe

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Speaker 1: get tangled up in it. But in the fence itself

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Speaker 1: would be reduced to shambles and would no longer serve

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Speaker 1: its purpose. And and of course, if you were at

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Speaker 1: all concerned about humans, you know, a wire fence like

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Speaker 1: this is not going to really be uh, you know,

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Speaker 1: any kind of an obstacle for humans either. So they

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Speaker 1: quickly realized what was lacking here. Spikes, right, passive weapons,

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Speaker 1: just just some static pokers to sit there and hurt

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Speaker 1: you if you if you press too hard. So an

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Speaker 1: American farmer and businessman named Joseph Glidden is often given

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Speaker 1: credit for the invention of barbed wire, and he does

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Speaker 1: play a very important role in the history of barbed wire,

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Speaker 1: But it looks like there were a number of inventions

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Speaker 1: of similar types of fencing material before Glidden swooped in.

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Speaker 1: So we really need to take a pretty large step

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Speaker 1: back before we get to Glidden. So we will get

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Speaker 1: to him in a bit. One of the first things

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Speaker 1: I thought we should mention since we're still sort of

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Speaker 1: in the what came before phase, is the idea of

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Speaker 1: live fencing or live fence. Specifically a species of plant

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Speaker 1: known as Maclura pomifera, commonly known as the osage orange

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Speaker 1: or the hedge apple tree. You ever seen a hedge apple? Oh? Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: they're fun to kick down the road. Yeah. I never

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Speaker 1: tried to eat one. I wonder what they taste like.

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Speaker 1: I don't know. I never tried either. I bet they're nasty.

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Speaker 1: This was a thorny hedge plant that could be and

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Speaker 1: was used as a kind of natural barbed wire to

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Speaker 1: form boundaries and barriers, but it had many problems. You

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Speaker 1: could try to aligne your fields with osage orange, but

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Speaker 1: it was difficult to maintain. It required a lot of trimming,

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Speaker 1: like it can, you know, shoot out big branches all

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Speaker 1: over the place, and it in in Krell's words, quote

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Speaker 1: harbored noxious weeds. So the question is can you recreate

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Speaker 1: some of the desirable qualities of this thorn hedge through

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Speaker 1: industrial means or synthetic means. And despite the historical association

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Speaker 1: between barbed wire and the American ranch land frontier, it

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Speaker 1: seems that a number of French inventors preceded the Americans.

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Speaker 1: There were at least two French patents on barbed wire

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Speaker 1: that came before any patents in America, and then another

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Speaker 1: one that came before most patents in America. So let's

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Speaker 1: let's look at France for a second right now. Now.

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Speaker 1: I will point out though that the Krell doesn't seem

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Speaker 1: to think that there's necessarily any connection between the French

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Speaker 1: and the American inventions. They have came up come up

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Speaker 1: with these independently. So imagine it's one of those things

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Speaker 1: you can you can ultimately explain just in terms of,

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Speaker 1: you know, the material science reaching a point where people

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Speaker 1: could could innovate with it, or the demand whether there'd

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Speaker 1: be a situation where this suddenly appears useful. And what's

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Speaker 1: fascinating here is that the way that it's useful varies

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Speaker 1: pretty greatly from Europe to the America's that's right. So

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Speaker 1: in the year eighteen sixty there was a Frenchman named

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Speaker 1: Lance Eugene Grassain Batilon who acquired a patent for quote

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Speaker 1: grating of wire work for fences and other purposes. And

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Speaker 1: I've got an illustration for you to look at here, Robert,

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Speaker 1: but this consisted of quote, a system of twisted iron

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Speaker 1: employing a flat thin wire known commercially as ribbon iron,

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Speaker 1: that could be applied to everything that ought to be

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Speaker 1: enclosed or fenced. And this, Krell says, this would include

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Speaker 1: railing for parks, railroads, meadows, gardens, pavilions, and even trees. Like, God,

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Speaker 1: imagine that world, you know, it's just a barbed wire

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Speaker 1: fence for every tree. Yeah. Like, if it's not clear

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Speaker 1: already that the focus here is not so much on

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Speaker 1: wandering cattle but on people, yes, uh. And Krell says

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Speaker 1: that most historians have kind of ignored Grassain Batilon, but

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Speaker 1: his patent was the first to describe the common feature

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Speaker 1: of twisted wire with sharp projections. Grassian Battalon called these

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Speaker 1: projections bristling points, and Krell is careful to point out

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Speaker 1: that gb here didn't describe the material as something that

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Speaker 1: you would make fencing out of, but rather as something

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Speaker 1: that would be mounted on top of a normal fence

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Speaker 1: to make it harder to climb over, which is exactly

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Speaker 1: how we see barbed wire used at And of course

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Speaker 1: it's cousin razor wire used today, something you can put

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Speaker 1: at the very top of a non barbed fence like

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Speaker 1: you know, cyclone fencing, etcetera, to make it difficult to

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Speaker 1: climb over. Right, So you want to put fencing around

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Speaker 1: all the trees in your city or something, you put

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Speaker 1: this on top of the fence around all the trees. Beautiful.

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Speaker 1: But after this there were more frenchmen to follow with

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Speaker 1: ideas for barbed wire. There was another guy named Louis

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Speaker 1: Francois Janine who was awarded a patent in April eighteen

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Speaker 1: sixty five. So five years later, UH was awarded a

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Speaker 1: patent for barbed wire of a kind of different design.

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Speaker 1: Here the fence would consider list of double twisted wire

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Speaker 1: with diamond shaped barbs made out of flat pieces of

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Speaker 1: sheet metal. So this isn't uh, this isn't gonna be

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Speaker 1: a little like poker sticking out like thorns. This is

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Speaker 1: going to be more like sharp flat pieces of metal

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Speaker 1: embedded in the wire as it goes along, sort of

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Speaker 1: little diamond shaped blades. Yeah. Well, one of the really

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Speaker 1: interesting things to come out of researching this episode was

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Speaker 1: just that how many different types of barbed wire have

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Speaker 1: been devised? Hundreds? Yeah, it's it's it's amazing and We'll

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Speaker 1: get more into some of the variety as we go here.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I think there were hundreds, just between like

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Speaker 1: eighteen sixty seven and eighteen seventy four. Uh So, a

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Speaker 1: later patent was filed by a brick manufacturer from Brittany.

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Speaker 1: And not to be confusing, if you don't know, Brittany

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Speaker 1: is in western France, It's not in Britain. Uh Brittany

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Speaker 1: and Western France. And this guy was named Gilbert Gavellard.

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Speaker 1: This was granted in August eighteen sixty seven, and it

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Speaker 1: was for Gavellard's Brevede in Vineon, which describes a fence

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Speaker 1: composed of runt says, oh my, my French has failing me.

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Speaker 1: Here run says artificial, meaning artificial thorns. There would be

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Speaker 1: things that would be uh quote caught between three strands

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Speaker 1: of intertwined wire. Uh This brings to mind a description

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Speaker 1: that that Krell shares. He he He discusses the powerful

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Speaker 1: Washburn and Mowan Manufacturing company out of Massachusetts, which was

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Speaker 1: a big like a major producer of barbed wire and

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Speaker 1: of course a major marketer of barbed wire. They put

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Speaker 1: put out some some gloriously over the top descriptions of

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Speaker 1: of barbed wire the perfect fence, And one of the

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Speaker 1: quotes from the Perfect Fences quote, the steel barb is

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Speaker 1: nothing more than a thorn, the spur the animal instantly

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Speaker 1: retreats from and thereafter carefully avoids. Yeah, it is compared

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Speaker 1: to a thorn. Again and again emphasis on the natural. Uh.

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Speaker 1: I was about to say the natural nature, the the

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Speaker 1: natural nous of the thorn. Michael Kelly of New York,

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Speaker 1: who received a patent for a barbed wire design on

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Speaker 1: February eleven, eight sixty eight, writes of his invention quote,

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Speaker 1: my invention relates to imparting defenses of wire a character

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Speaker 1: approximating to that of a thorn hedge. I prefer to

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Speaker 1: designate the fence so produced as a thorny fence. And

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Speaker 1: you know, you read these arguments, and what could be

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Speaker 1: more natural? You're not making something grossly artificial, um an industrial. No,

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Speaker 1: You're you're taking something that the world does naturally, that

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Speaker 1: vegetation does naturally, and just applying it a little more

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Speaker 1: towards your specific aim. Well, yeah, I wonder if grass

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Speaker 1: Saint Battalan was anticipating somebody like me who's horrified by

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Speaker 1: the idea of a barbed wire fence around every tree.

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Speaker 1: Because when he's talking about his proposal for tree guards,

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Speaker 1: he writes that they quote maybe of double ribbon wire,

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Speaker 1: which allows the addition of small wire points, and when

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Speaker 1: these ribbons are twisted together, the wire points bristle in

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Speaker 1: every direction and form spikes, imitating thorn branches. It's just

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Speaker 1: saying it's like another part of the tree. It's just

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Speaker 1: like a plant. Yeah, you can well imagine him today

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Speaker 1: saying naturally trees grow upward and uh and reach towards

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Speaker 1: the heavens. Why not also helped transmit wireless signals for

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Speaker 1: our telephones? What could be more natural? Uh huh. But

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Speaker 1: it's funny, I mean, and we're not even really brushing

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Speaker 1: the surface of all the different marketing materials and patents

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Speaker 1: and uh and advertisements and everything that described barbed wire

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Speaker 1: as a thorn, that they were obsessed with this idea

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Speaker 1: that it's just like a thorn bush, it's just like

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Speaker 1: a brier. And I wonder if I wonder where a

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Speaker 1: lot of these comparisons are coming from. I think some

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Speaker 1: of it must be coming from like trying to make

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Speaker 1: it seem more humane, more natural, less like some kind

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Speaker 1: of gross metal claw that's invading your environment, right, And

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Speaker 1: then some of the literature too, is really just pressing

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Speaker 1: just how cultured it is, how essential it is to

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Speaker 1: have fencing. The fencing is the thing that separates us

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Speaker 1: from the savages, of which you know, as um as

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Speaker 1: Krall points out, as just you know, steeped in the

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Speaker 1: language of of of of you know, European colonists. Yes,

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Speaker 1: And Krell also shows these advertisements from the time that

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Speaker 1: that sort of envisioned barbed wire as the demarcation line

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Speaker 1: of a kind of controlled arcadia where he where he

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Speaker 1: would depict people walking along lanes where they would be

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Speaker 1: surrounded by beautiful plants. And then also just like menageries

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Speaker 1: of animals all mixed together, like elephants and camels and

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Speaker 1: horses and dogs and stuff, all in the same pins,

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Speaker 1: but they're all separated from these lanes by this elegant

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Speaker 1: looking barbed wire. And and so it's like, I don't know,

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Speaker 1: it's it enforces this theme of like man versus beast

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Speaker 1: and humankind versus nature, and we contame it and put

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Speaker 1: it in the box and control it with these artificial

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Speaker 1: with these industrial thorns, these thorns of human ingenuity. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: there's one point where Krell is dealing with this, uh,

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Speaker 1: this illustration by one of the barbed wire um master's

359
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Speaker 1: uh there of a of a cow trying to eat

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Speaker 1: an apple, but is prevented from reaching that apple in

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Speaker 1: this you know, otherwise, you know, a pristine garden environment

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Speaker 1: by barbed wire fencing, which he compares then to the

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Speaker 1: garden of Eden and the and the you know, the

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Speaker 1: tree of knowledge of good and evil and so forth,

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Speaker 1: which which is maybe a bit of a stretch, but

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Speaker 1: but still I like, I like the argument if we

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Speaker 1: just had one of those tree guards in the garden,

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Speaker 1: there wouldn't have been a fall, right, Yeah, the fences

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Speaker 1: order and uh and in the opposite of order is chaos. Right,

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Speaker 1: So maybe we should take a quick break and then

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Speaker 1: we come back. We can explore the year that the

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Speaker 1: that the damn broke on the barbed wire flood. All right,

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Speaker 1: we're back. So, as we mentioned earlier, you had the

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Speaker 1: Homestead Act of eighteen sixty two that really opened up

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Speaker 1: the the American the Great American Desert. And it's in

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Speaker 1: the wake of this that we began to see this

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Speaker 1: this real uh, this real rush right right. It seems

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Speaker 1: that something happened around the year eighteen sixty seven, because

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Speaker 1: that's the year that a ton of barbed wire patents

380
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Speaker 1: began popping up in the United States. We mentioned that

381
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Speaker 1: the first patent was in France in eighteen sixty there

382
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Speaker 1: was another one in eighteen sixty five, and then in

383
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Speaker 1: eighteen sixty seven the American floodgates open. There were so

384
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Speaker 1: many barbed wire patents and designs that that popped up

385
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Speaker 1: between around eighteen sixty seven and running into the mid

386
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Speaker 1: eighteen seventies. And again we we mentioned earlier some of

387
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Speaker 1: the demands that might have put pressure on this invention.

388
00:22:00,160 --> 00:22:03,479
Speaker 1: You've got the continued colonization of the western prairie lands,

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Speaker 1: the desire for farmers to keep animals in and or

390
00:22:06,840 --> 00:22:09,480
Speaker 1: keep animals out of their fields in a place where

391
00:22:09,560 --> 00:22:12,639
Speaker 1: lumber was scarce and the weather could easily damage a

392
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Speaker 1: solid wooden fence. Anyway, wire fencing was kind of this

393
00:22:15,720 --> 00:22:18,960
Speaker 1: perfect solution. And then the barbs. Meanwhile, we're there to

394
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Speaker 1: discourage animals from knocking down the wire fencing. So who

395
00:22:22,760 --> 00:22:26,240
Speaker 1: were some of these early American inventors of the industrial thorn.

396
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Speaker 1: There are honestly too many to name here, but just

397
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Speaker 1: to mention a few There was a guy named Alfonso

398
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Speaker 1: Dab of Elizabeth Port, New Jersey, and he got a

399
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Speaker 1: patent in April eighteen sixty seven for an improvement in

400
00:22:40,080 --> 00:22:43,080
Speaker 1: pickets for fences and walls. And this would be like

401
00:22:43,240 --> 00:22:46,040
Speaker 1: you've got a wrought iron mounting strip and you could

402
00:22:46,080 --> 00:22:49,560
Speaker 1: put this on top of an existing fence or an

403
00:22:49,560 --> 00:22:53,959
Speaker 1: existing wall, and this would be too in in Dab's words, quote,

404
00:22:54,119 --> 00:22:58,920
Speaker 1: stop juveniles or others from climbing them. So these are

405
00:22:58,960 --> 00:23:03,040
Speaker 1: these are anti human spikes that you would put on

406
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Speaker 1: top of a fence. And you attached to a picture

407
00:23:06,240 --> 00:23:08,720
Speaker 1: of this for our notes here, And really they look

408
00:23:08,760 --> 00:23:11,800
Speaker 1: more like spearheads or bayonnets or something to that effect,

409
00:23:12,520 --> 00:23:15,840
Speaker 1: less like like anything we would identify as barbed wire. Yeah,

410
00:23:15,880 --> 00:23:18,760
Speaker 1: these are less for agriculture. These are something that would

411
00:23:18,760 --> 00:23:21,280
Speaker 1: go on top of an existing fence and they would

412
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Speaker 1: poke your butt if you tried to climb over. Uh.

413
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Speaker 1: And then in the same year, but a little a

414
00:23:26,400 --> 00:23:30,119
Speaker 1: few months later, in June eighteen sixty seven, a Lucien B.

415
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Speaker 1: Smith of Kent, Ohio, came up with a barbed wire invention,

416
00:23:35,000 --> 00:23:39,320
Speaker 1: which Smith describes thus lee quote posts of cast iron

417
00:23:39,680 --> 00:23:42,720
Speaker 1: between which two or more stout wires are strung tightly,

418
00:23:43,080 --> 00:23:46,399
Speaker 1: which wires are provided with spools a few feet apart

419
00:23:46,640 --> 00:23:50,919
Speaker 1: and protected with short projecting points. Um and this is

420
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Speaker 1: so quote offensive. This kind can be constructed very cheaply

421
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Speaker 1: and will turn animals readily, as they can see it

422
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Speaker 1: better than the ordinary wire fence, which has nothing attached

423
00:24:00,560 --> 00:24:03,520
Speaker 1: to the wires to attract attention. And the animals will

424
00:24:03,560 --> 00:24:06,720
Speaker 1: not counter the spurs or the spools, So this is

425
00:24:06,760 --> 00:24:09,879
Speaker 1: kind of interesting. Smith is saying. Not only will these

426
00:24:09,920 --> 00:24:13,159
Speaker 1: spurs poke the animals if they press against the fence

427
00:24:13,200 --> 00:24:16,439
Speaker 1: and and deter them there, it will also make the

428
00:24:16,480 --> 00:24:19,600
Speaker 1: fence more visible to the animals, so that they won't

429
00:24:19,680 --> 00:24:22,400
Speaker 1: need to poke up against it brush against it by accident.

430
00:24:22,440 --> 00:24:24,720
Speaker 1: They'll be able to see it more easily than they

431
00:24:24,720 --> 00:24:28,320
Speaker 1: would see just plain smooth wire. And Another early American

432
00:24:28,359 --> 00:24:30,840
Speaker 1: patent for something counting as a barbed wire fence belonged

433
00:24:30,880 --> 00:24:33,720
Speaker 1: to an inventor named William D. Hunt of New York

434
00:24:34,000 --> 00:24:37,600
Speaker 1: In This was awarded in July eighteen sixty seven. The

435
00:24:37,680 --> 00:24:40,080
Speaker 1: design here is a little bit different from the barbed

436
00:24:40,119 --> 00:24:43,760
Speaker 1: wire we're familiar with. It was conceived as a farming

437
00:24:43,840 --> 00:24:47,960
Speaker 1: and ranching innovation, and from Hunt's patent, he describes it

438
00:24:48,000 --> 00:24:51,239
Speaker 1: as quote, the spurs fit the wire loosely so as

439
00:24:51,280 --> 00:24:54,560
Speaker 1: to revolve easily upon it. By providing the wire with

440
00:24:54,640 --> 00:24:58,160
Speaker 1: these sharp spur wheels, animals are deterred from pushing against

441
00:24:58,200 --> 00:25:01,440
Speaker 1: the fence or attempting to break over it. And so

442
00:25:01,840 --> 00:25:05,520
Speaker 1: this would not be twisted wire forming little artificial thorns,

443
00:25:05,560 --> 00:25:08,640
Speaker 1: but rather it would be a smooth wire along which

444
00:25:08,680 --> 00:25:12,480
Speaker 1: are strung like beads, these little kind of like saw

445
00:25:12,640 --> 00:25:16,399
Speaker 1: blade looking things that can rotate freely around the wire,

446
00:25:16,480 --> 00:25:19,440
Speaker 1: and then they would be held basically in place by

447
00:25:19,440 --> 00:25:21,840
Speaker 1: the little studs on the wire. Yeah, kind of like

448
00:25:21,880 --> 00:25:25,440
Speaker 1: little ninja throwing stars. Right. And you know this one also,

449
00:25:25,600 --> 00:25:27,639
Speaker 1: this one looks kind of neat actually the illustration, and

450
00:25:27,680 --> 00:25:30,600
Speaker 1: I can imagine it being kind of, you know, shiny

451
00:25:30,720 --> 00:25:34,320
Speaker 1: and decorative if it was deployed in a way that

452
00:25:34,359 --> 00:25:37,480
Speaker 1: would you know, perhaps be pleasing to the eyes, but also,

453
00:25:37,840 --> 00:25:41,480
Speaker 1: coming back to that previous point, perhaps highly visible to animals. Yeah,

454
00:25:41,520 --> 00:25:43,879
Speaker 1: and I think this might actually be a slightly more

455
00:25:43,960 --> 00:25:46,919
Speaker 1: humane version of barbed wire. I'm not sure because I

456
00:25:46,920 --> 00:25:50,000
Speaker 1: haven't tried it myself, but it would still provide a

457
00:25:50,040 --> 00:25:53,600
Speaker 1: painful resistance if say, cows tried to press up against it.

458
00:25:53,920 --> 00:25:57,359
Speaker 1: But because the sharp spur rotates freely around the wire,

459
00:25:57,720 --> 00:26:00,000
Speaker 1: it seems a lot less likely than the barbed wire

460
00:26:00,040 --> 00:26:04,199
Speaker 1: were used to catch and tear skin. Does that make sense, Like,

461
00:26:04,280 --> 00:26:06,639
Speaker 1: it's not a hook going into you. It's just a

462
00:26:06,920 --> 00:26:10,120
Speaker 1: sharp little thing, and and the fact that it rotates

463
00:26:10,240 --> 00:26:12,679
Speaker 1: means it you know, it might hurt to press against it,

464
00:26:12,720 --> 00:26:15,120
Speaker 1: but it's not going to stay in you. Now, there's

465
00:26:15,160 --> 00:26:17,639
Speaker 1: a great thing that's quoted in Krell's book, which is

466
00:26:17,720 --> 00:26:21,960
Speaker 1: Hunt describing his inspiration for the invention, which was basically

467
00:26:22,000 --> 00:26:25,479
Speaker 1: he had had trouble with a very stubborn mule, and

468
00:26:25,520 --> 00:26:27,920
Speaker 1: he said, quote, I made up my mind that one

469
00:26:27,960 --> 00:26:30,760
Speaker 1: young mule couldn't beat me. So one day the idea

470
00:26:30,840 --> 00:26:33,879
Speaker 1: suggested itself to me. Somehow, I don't know as I

471
00:26:33,880 --> 00:26:36,840
Speaker 1: can tell how that a wire fence might be bird

472
00:26:36,960 --> 00:26:39,720
Speaker 1: as I called it, then barbed as it has been

473
00:26:39,800 --> 00:26:42,040
Speaker 1: changed too since, And I thought it would make a

474
00:26:42,080 --> 00:26:44,719
Speaker 1: good thing. The reason why I thought so was that

475
00:26:44,760 --> 00:26:47,240
Speaker 1: this mule would press against a thing and stand so

476
00:26:47,359 --> 00:26:50,199
Speaker 1: obstinate it would hang against the board of a fence.

477
00:26:50,720 --> 00:26:53,240
Speaker 1: And I thought, if I had something sharp, he wouldn't

478
00:26:53,240 --> 00:26:58,520
Speaker 1: crowd it so hard. H So bird fencing colon a

479
00:26:58,600 --> 00:27:00,720
Speaker 1: good thing, well at least a hunt it was, you know,

480
00:27:00,760 --> 00:27:03,480
Speaker 1: when you got a stubborn mule. But there are many

481
00:27:03,520 --> 00:27:06,919
Speaker 1: problems with the early designs for barbed wire fencing. A

482
00:27:06,920 --> 00:27:10,440
Speaker 1: lot of these designs beginning in eighteen sixty seven might

483
00:27:10,480 --> 00:27:13,360
Speaker 1: have been effective if they were used, but there were

484
00:27:13,400 --> 00:27:16,320
Speaker 1: problems with the production. The barbs had to be created

485
00:27:16,400 --> 00:27:19,919
Speaker 1: and placed along the wire by hand, and this was

486
00:27:20,000 --> 00:27:24,720
Speaker 1: extremely laborious, potentially dangerous or painful for the worker. It

487
00:27:24,720 --> 00:27:28,120
Speaker 1: would have made production of the wire slow and expensive

488
00:27:28,760 --> 00:27:31,359
Speaker 1: because you're basically having to make a necklace every time

489
00:27:31,359 --> 00:27:34,720
Speaker 1: he's stringing up some some wire if you're having to

490
00:27:35,119 --> 00:27:38,159
Speaker 1: beat it with these little sharookens and so forth. Right, So,

491
00:27:38,240 --> 00:27:41,080
Speaker 1: the next major revolution in barbed wire, I think, was

492
00:27:41,240 --> 00:27:44,560
Speaker 1: less about how effective the specific wire design was at

493
00:27:44,560 --> 00:27:48,800
Speaker 1: controlling animals and more more about how the design could

494
00:27:48,880 --> 00:27:52,560
Speaker 1: be mass produced. And this is where Joseph Glidden comes in.

495
00:27:53,000 --> 00:27:55,600
Speaker 1: This is where everything seems to change. In the year

496
00:27:55,720 --> 00:28:00,040
Speaker 1: eighteen seventy four, Joseph Glidden patented the first design and

497
00:28:00,160 --> 00:28:03,440
Speaker 1: for barbed wire that would ever become a huge commercial success.

498
00:28:03,880 --> 00:28:07,600
Speaker 1: According to Krell, in eighteen seventy four, just about ten

499
00:28:07,720 --> 00:28:11,560
Speaker 1: thousand pounds of barbed wire were produced and sold. Six

500
00:28:11,680 --> 00:28:14,320
Speaker 1: years later, in eighteen eighty, that figure was more than

501
00:28:14,440 --> 00:28:18,399
Speaker 1: eighty million pounds. Uh, there's a there's a great line

502
00:28:18,520 --> 00:28:23,320
Speaker 1: from Glinden's marketing. Uh. He claimed that this his wire

503
00:28:23,480 --> 00:28:27,520
Speaker 1: was quote lighter than air, stronger than whiskey, cheaper than dust.

504
00:28:29,359 --> 00:28:31,520
Speaker 1: Well that taps into another thing that I think is

505
00:28:31,520 --> 00:28:34,720
Speaker 1: common in barbed wire marketing, which is, I think pretty

506
00:28:34,760 --> 00:28:39,480
Speaker 1: straightforward appeals to kind of masculinity marketing. There's like very

507
00:28:39,560 --> 00:28:42,520
Speaker 1: gendered marketing with barbed wire, you know what I mean. Well,

508
00:28:42,560 --> 00:28:44,680
Speaker 1: I mean it was it was pretty obvious that it

509
00:28:44,720 --> 00:28:47,360
Speaker 1: was going to be um, a male audience that was

510
00:28:47,360 --> 00:28:49,440
Speaker 1: going to be buying this barbed wire for for a

511
00:28:49,520 --> 00:28:52,960
Speaker 1: variety of reasons. But yeah, there's this whole again, the

512
00:28:53,000 --> 00:28:58,120
Speaker 1: man versus nature attaining of the wilderness um for the

513
00:28:58,200 --> 00:29:00,680
Speaker 1: most part. But we will get into a major divide

514
00:29:00,720 --> 00:29:03,840
Speaker 1: on that as we move forward. Sure, So what was

515
00:29:03,960 --> 00:29:07,880
Speaker 1: Glidden's mass production method? Well, it involved taking two strands

516
00:29:07,920 --> 00:29:12,280
Speaker 1: of wire and twisting them around each other while barbs

517
00:29:12,320 --> 00:29:15,800
Speaker 1: were automatically strung along one one of the two wires

518
00:29:16,040 --> 00:29:18,360
Speaker 1: and then held in place by the wrapping of the

519
00:29:18,440 --> 00:29:22,440
Speaker 1: second wire. It's a pretty ingenious method. Yeah, it's it's

520
00:29:22,440 --> 00:29:24,880
Speaker 1: basically an example of what we we come to see

521
00:29:24,880 --> 00:29:27,560
Speaker 1: as the standard in barbed wire, and that is the

522
00:29:27,680 --> 00:29:30,160
Speaker 1: sense of barbed wire is a kind of not that

523
00:29:30,280 --> 00:29:33,360
Speaker 1: is formed as opposed to something that is manufactured by

524
00:29:33,360 --> 00:29:36,720
Speaker 1: the beating of spikes and so forth. Exactly. Yeah. Now,

525
00:29:36,760 --> 00:29:40,640
Speaker 1: there was a huge amount of legal battling over barbed

526
00:29:40,640 --> 00:29:43,880
Speaker 1: wire patents, but Glidden managed to come out ahead in

527
00:29:43,920 --> 00:29:46,760
Speaker 1: all of this with his mass production method. His barbed

528
00:29:46,760 --> 00:29:50,400
Speaker 1: wire not was also pretty straightforward. By the way, about

529
00:29:50,400 --> 00:29:53,440
Speaker 1: the legal battle, there is a whole history here with

530
00:29:53,480 --> 00:29:56,280
Speaker 1: this sort of battle royal that all these various American

531
00:29:56,320 --> 00:29:58,600
Speaker 1: individuals will get into that in a minute. I was

532
00:29:58,640 --> 00:30:00,400
Speaker 1: actually I was running across art goals in the New

533
00:30:00,480 --> 00:30:03,840
Speaker 1: York Times from the day where they were had updates

534
00:30:04,200 --> 00:30:06,680
Speaker 1: to the legal battle. Yeah, it was a crazy drama.

535
00:30:06,720 --> 00:30:09,200
Speaker 1: And we'll even get to some poetry about that drama

536
00:30:09,240 --> 00:30:12,200
Speaker 1: in a minute. Uh. Now, there's another interesting fact here,

537
00:30:12,240 --> 00:30:14,760
Speaker 1: which is that there are some versions of the story

538
00:30:14,840 --> 00:30:19,880
Speaker 1: that point out Joseph Glynden's wife Lucinda Warren Glidden's role

539
00:30:19,920 --> 00:30:23,320
Speaker 1: in this. Apparently, Lucinda helped Joseph figure out the process

540
00:30:23,360 --> 00:30:27,080
Speaker 1: that would set his barbed wire apart. So first, Glinton

541
00:30:27,320 --> 00:30:30,920
Speaker 1: used his wife's hairpins to twist sharp points that he

542
00:30:30,960 --> 00:30:33,200
Speaker 1: tried to attach to a piece of straight wire. But

543
00:30:33,600 --> 00:30:36,720
Speaker 1: like many other barbed wire inventors before him, he came

544
00:30:36,760 --> 00:30:39,640
Speaker 1: across a problem, which was that the hairpin barbs kept

545
00:30:39,680 --> 00:30:42,120
Speaker 1: slipping down the length of the wire. They couldn't be

546
00:30:42,160 --> 00:30:45,120
Speaker 1: held in place. So to describe what happened next, I'm

547
00:30:45,120 --> 00:30:49,200
Speaker 1: gonna quote from Krell quote. Turning next to a coffee

548
00:30:49,200 --> 00:30:52,720
Speaker 1: meal retrieved from their kitchen, Glinden converted it in such

549
00:30:52,760 --> 00:30:55,320
Speaker 1: a way that by cranking it he could produce a

550
00:30:55,440 --> 00:30:59,120
Speaker 1: uniform barb. The problem of the sliding barbs was finally

551
00:30:59,160 --> 00:31:01,880
Speaker 1: resolved when he hit upon the idea that a second

552
00:31:01,920 --> 00:31:04,840
Speaker 1: wire might secure them if it were twisted around the first.

553
00:31:05,240 --> 00:31:08,520
Speaker 1: To this end, he converted an old grindstone into a

554
00:31:08,600 --> 00:31:12,320
Speaker 1: rudimentary twisting device, and, with the help of Lucinda, who

555
00:31:12,360 --> 00:31:15,520
Speaker 1: turned the grindstone while he held the wire, proceeded to

556
00:31:15,560 --> 00:31:18,320
Speaker 1: make the first sixty six feet of barbed wire in

557
00:31:18,360 --> 00:31:22,600
Speaker 1: their backyard. Also thank you, husband for turning every device

558
00:31:22,640 --> 00:31:26,640
Speaker 1: in our house into a barbed wire construction method. Yeah.

559
00:31:26,680 --> 00:31:29,800
Speaker 1: From then on, the coffee taste like barbed wire. Now.

560
00:31:29,840 --> 00:31:33,560
Speaker 1: Another interesting individual in all this was John Warrene Better

561
00:31:33,640 --> 00:31:37,320
Speaker 1: Million Gates Boy, so named because it said that he'd

562
00:31:37,360 --> 00:31:40,680
Speaker 1: take bets on whether cows could break through his wire. Uh.

563
00:31:40,720 --> 00:31:43,680
Speaker 1: And apparently there was some criticism that he was maybe

564
00:31:43,720 --> 00:31:47,520
Speaker 1: using really lazy cows or and I was reading some

565
00:31:47,560 --> 00:31:50,440
Speaker 1: sort of back and forth in this, but either way,

566
00:31:50,600 --> 00:31:53,960
Speaker 1: he became quite rich off the product, though he engaged

567
00:31:54,000 --> 00:31:56,760
Speaker 1: apparently at times in the sale of quote moonshine wire,

568
00:31:58,160 --> 00:32:01,040
Speaker 1: which if I'm understanding correctly, would have been like kind

569
00:32:01,040 --> 00:32:04,880
Speaker 1: of like bootleg design wires barbed wire recipes that he

570
00:32:04,920 --> 00:32:07,959
Speaker 1: wasn't actually uh you know, legally supposed to be selling.

571
00:32:08,160 --> 00:32:12,680
Speaker 1: The amount of anguish over bootleg or like scalped barbed

572
00:32:12,680 --> 00:32:15,920
Speaker 1: wire is one of the most shocking things I discovered

573
00:32:15,960 --> 00:32:20,440
Speaker 1: in this. Like there was great passion about the intellectual

574
00:32:20,440 --> 00:32:23,920
Speaker 1: property disputes of barbed wire in the eighteen seventies and eighties.

575
00:32:24,160 --> 00:32:26,280
Speaker 1: And and this is because Glidden was not the only

576
00:32:26,360 --> 00:32:29,840
Speaker 1: person to invent to invent a barbed wire in the

577
00:32:29,840 --> 00:32:33,520
Speaker 1: eighteen seventies or or to invent an effective mass production

578
00:32:33,560 --> 00:32:36,760
Speaker 1: system for barbed wire. There was another inventor named Jacob

579
00:32:36,800 --> 00:32:40,120
Speaker 1: Has who came up with a similar process to Glinten's

580
00:32:40,120 --> 00:32:42,719
Speaker 1: in the same year, but Glinden won the legal battle

581
00:32:42,800 --> 00:32:45,959
Speaker 1: over precedence. In fact, there were at least three inventors,

582
00:32:45,960 --> 00:32:48,720
Speaker 1: So you had Glidden, you had Jacob Hash, and then

583
00:32:48,720 --> 00:32:52,440
Speaker 1: there was a hardware dealer named Isaac L. L. Wood,

584
00:32:52,720 --> 00:32:55,440
Speaker 1: who were all involved in a long running I P

585
00:32:55,640 --> 00:32:59,680
Speaker 1: dispute after they each tried to file patents for barbed wire.

586
00:33:00,280 --> 00:33:04,920
Speaker 1: After the three of them all visited the Decab, Illinois

587
00:33:04,960 --> 00:33:08,840
Speaker 1: County Fair of eighteen seventy three, where the three of

588
00:33:08,880 --> 00:33:12,480
Speaker 1: them all saw a display by a guy named Henry

589
00:33:12,600 --> 00:33:16,560
Speaker 1: Rose which included a long strip of wood that had

590
00:33:16,680 --> 00:33:19,520
Speaker 1: barbs attached to it, which could be used to keep

591
00:33:19,560 --> 00:33:23,560
Speaker 1: an animal from pressing against defense. And so all three

592
00:33:23,600 --> 00:33:26,360
Speaker 1: of them looked at this idea of Roses so like

593
00:33:26,400 --> 00:33:29,400
Speaker 1: a long wooden dowel with barbs on it. All three

594
00:33:29,400 --> 00:33:32,080
Speaker 1: of them independently had the idea that it would make

595
00:33:32,120 --> 00:33:34,280
Speaker 1: more sense to do the same thing, but put the

596
00:33:34,320 --> 00:33:37,040
Speaker 1: barbs on a length of wire instead of a wooden rod,

597
00:33:37,480 --> 00:33:40,080
Speaker 1: and then all three set to work trying to acquire

598
00:33:40,120 --> 00:33:43,080
Speaker 1: a patent, and Glinden just happened to turn out the

599
00:33:43,120 --> 00:33:46,280
Speaker 1: big winner of this long and acrimonious dispute. But I

600
00:33:46,320 --> 00:33:48,640
Speaker 1: think it's funny that like they're all fighting, they're fighting

601
00:33:48,720 --> 00:33:51,960
Speaker 1: each other, and like they all basically got the idea

602
00:33:52,040 --> 00:33:54,720
Speaker 1: from this other guy, that they just all had the

603
00:33:54,720 --> 00:33:57,120
Speaker 1: insight that wire would work better than a than a

604
00:33:57,120 --> 00:34:01,360
Speaker 1: wooden rod. But at some point the defeat inventor Jacob Hayes,

605
00:34:01,480 --> 00:34:04,800
Speaker 1: who you know, who lost this intellectual property battle to

606
00:34:04,920 --> 00:34:08,680
Speaker 1: Joseph Glinton. He wrote a poem called be as Happy

607
00:34:08,719 --> 00:34:11,840
Speaker 1: as you Can that is quoted in Krell's book This

608
00:34:11,960 --> 00:34:15,600
Speaker 1: is so good, This life is not all sunshine as

609
00:34:15,680 --> 00:34:20,160
Speaker 1: barbed fence scalpers have found. The crosses they bear are heavy,

610
00:34:20,200 --> 00:34:23,760
Speaker 1: and under them lies no crown. And while they're seeking

611
00:34:23,800 --> 00:34:27,919
Speaker 1: the roses, the thorns full offt they scan. Yet let them,

612
00:34:28,080 --> 00:34:32,080
Speaker 1: though they're wounded, be as happy as they can. It's

613
00:34:32,120 --> 00:34:35,240
Speaker 1: like the Bobby Fuller Four's letter dance of barbed wire.

614
00:34:36,840 --> 00:34:39,360
Speaker 1: And in this we do have the the the crown

615
00:34:39,400 --> 00:34:42,719
Speaker 1: of Christ's damagery as well. Absolutely, But what comes out

616
00:34:42,719 --> 00:34:45,480
Speaker 1: of this is that Glidden's version of barbed wire is

617
00:34:45,600 --> 00:34:49,640
Speaker 1: probably correctly understood to be the progenitor of most existing

618
00:34:49,680 --> 00:34:53,960
Speaker 1: types of barbed wire today. Yeah. In summary via Crell,

619
00:34:54,560 --> 00:34:57,200
Speaker 1: it is accurate to say that barbed wire quote was

620
00:34:57,280 --> 00:35:01,600
Speaker 1: born in France, independently conceived in the Eastern States of America,

621
00:35:01,760 --> 00:35:04,600
Speaker 1: New Jersey, Ohio, and New York, and grew up on

622
00:35:04,640 --> 00:35:08,239
Speaker 1: the prairies and planes where for different reasons, farmers especially

623
00:35:08,400 --> 00:35:12,600
Speaker 1: and later ranchers turned increasingly defensing. Alright, we're gonna take

624
00:35:12,600 --> 00:35:14,440
Speaker 1: a break, but when we come back, we will continue

625
00:35:14,440 --> 00:35:18,640
Speaker 1: to discuss barbed wire, and we'll even get into uh

626
00:35:18,680 --> 00:35:21,520
Speaker 1: one or two examples of barbed wire used in a

627
00:35:21,560 --> 00:35:24,879
Speaker 1: way that we might well describe as uh, I don't know,

628
00:35:25,280 --> 00:35:33,640
Speaker 1: not evil. Yeah, I think that would be accurate. Alright,

629
00:35:33,680 --> 00:35:37,560
Speaker 1: we're back. So there are again many different varieties of

630
00:35:37,600 --> 00:35:40,480
Speaker 1: barbed wire, and and one book that is that is

631
00:35:40,520 --> 00:35:43,799
Speaker 1: often mentioned in UH in writings about the history of

632
00:35:43,800 --> 00:35:46,760
Speaker 1: barbed wire is a book that was published in nineteen

633
00:35:46,880 --> 00:35:50,880
Speaker 1: seventy seven titled The bobbed Wire Bible. That's bob b

634
00:35:51,000 --> 00:35:53,719
Speaker 1: O B B E d by Jack Glover published in

635
00:35:53,800 --> 00:35:55,880
Speaker 1: seventies seven, and I think earlier as well, but I

636
00:35:55,880 --> 00:35:57,560
Speaker 1: think maybe the addition I was looking at for was

637
00:35:57,600 --> 00:36:01,920
Speaker 1: from seventy seven and it contains illustrations of seven hundred

638
00:36:01,920 --> 00:36:06,720
Speaker 1: and thirty four different steel barbed wire knots, including things

639
00:36:06,760 --> 00:36:10,680
Speaker 1: like scuts, wooden block, and the shin round line lock

640
00:36:10,800 --> 00:36:14,840
Speaker 1: barb uh and uh. If you if you can find

641
00:36:14,840 --> 00:36:17,000
Speaker 1: a copy of this or just find some images of

642
00:36:17,040 --> 00:36:20,879
Speaker 1: pages from this book, it's pretty fascinating because their their

643
00:36:20,880 --> 00:36:24,040
Speaker 1: neat little illustrations and it just really drives home the

644
00:36:24,120 --> 00:36:28,319
Speaker 1: diversity that went into envisioning all the ways that you

645
00:36:28,360 --> 00:36:32,160
Speaker 1: could create a barb out of out of metal wiring.

646
00:36:32,480 --> 00:36:36,160
Speaker 1: It's amazing how much human imagination went into lengths of

647
00:36:36,200 --> 00:36:40,680
Speaker 1: wire that can hurt you. Yeah. Now, a particularly nasty

648
00:36:40,760 --> 00:36:45,640
Speaker 1: variation on all this is we mentioned razor wire briefly earlier,

649
00:36:46,280 --> 00:36:50,400
Speaker 1: or concertina wire, which is either the same or very similar,

650
00:36:50,440 --> 00:36:54,640
Speaker 1: depending on how specific you get in your barbed wire terminology.

651
00:36:54,760 --> 00:36:57,080
Speaker 1: I thought concertina wire had to do with like how

652
00:36:57,120 --> 00:37:00,600
Speaker 1: it was coiled. Yeah, yeah, yeah, so, but sometimes the

653
00:37:00,640 --> 00:37:03,680
Speaker 1: words are Sometimes people say constantine wire, which is just

654
00:37:03,719 --> 00:37:08,120
Speaker 1: a perversion of the term. But but in these were

655
00:37:08,200 --> 00:37:11,719
Speaker 1: really getting into anti human barbed wire varieties that you

656
00:37:11,920 --> 00:37:16,880
Speaker 1: usually see used in military penal or border settings. The

657
00:37:17,280 --> 00:37:19,879
Speaker 1: development and widespread use of this sort of wire really

658
00:37:19,880 --> 00:37:21,879
Speaker 1: goes back to the First and Second World Wars, where

659
00:37:21,880 --> 00:37:26,040
Speaker 1: they were used in trench warfare environments and other fortifications. Yeah,

660
00:37:26,120 --> 00:37:28,960
Speaker 1: and this does seem to be a change over time

661
00:37:29,040 --> 00:37:32,360
Speaker 1: that like early on, most of the messaging about barbed

662
00:37:32,400 --> 00:37:36,080
Speaker 1: wire is, as Kroll points out, this culture versus nature thing.

663
00:37:36,120 --> 00:37:40,160
Speaker 1: It's humankind versus the untamed animal world, and you're putting

664
00:37:40,160 --> 00:37:43,239
Speaker 1: these barriers in place to keep the animals in or

665
00:37:43,360 --> 00:37:46,120
Speaker 1: keep the animals out. Especially over the course of the

666
00:37:46,160 --> 00:37:49,480
Speaker 1: twentieth century, barbed wire is it takes a much darker

667
00:37:49,520 --> 00:37:53,200
Speaker 1: turn and we see it more and more deployed specifically

668
00:37:53,239 --> 00:37:55,840
Speaker 1: for uses on humans to keep the humans in or

669
00:37:55,880 --> 00:37:58,960
Speaker 1: to keep the humans out. Yeah. Absolutely. Now, one we

670
00:37:58,960 --> 00:38:02,359
Speaker 1: mentioned earlier about like masculinity in the marketing and acceptance

671
00:38:02,360 --> 00:38:05,560
Speaker 1: of barbed wire. One huge factor of the American West

672
00:38:05,640 --> 00:38:08,040
Speaker 1: was that while farmers were very much in favor of

673
00:38:08,080 --> 00:38:12,239
Speaker 1: barbed wire, cattlemen were not. Because what does it do

674
00:38:12,320 --> 00:38:14,480
Speaker 1: when you start throwing up miles and miles of barbed

675
00:38:14,520 --> 00:38:18,560
Speaker 1: wire fencing, Well, it disrupts the open grazing lands. Uh,

676
00:38:18,960 --> 00:38:23,080
Speaker 1: And it prevents cattle and horses from from moving around

677
00:38:23,120 --> 00:38:26,280
Speaker 1: freely or you know, from cow prevents cowboys from moving

678
00:38:26,280 --> 00:38:30,239
Speaker 1: a herd across a great distances. And on top of that,

679
00:38:30,280 --> 00:38:32,960
Speaker 1: cattle and horses could get pretty messed up in barbed wire.

680
00:38:32,960 --> 00:38:34,879
Speaker 1: I mean, that's that's one thing that is often kind

681
00:38:34,880 --> 00:38:39,040
Speaker 1: of uh skimmed over in the in the marketing material.

682
00:38:39,600 --> 00:38:42,080
Speaker 1: Is that is that, yeah, the stuff can really cut

683
00:38:42,160 --> 00:38:45,200
Speaker 1: up an animal and or a human and uh and

684
00:38:45,200 --> 00:38:48,120
Speaker 1: and put them in some pretty put them in dire shape. Well,

685
00:38:48,160 --> 00:38:50,520
Speaker 1: I think that's specifically a lot of the early advertising

686
00:38:50,560 --> 00:38:53,000
Speaker 1: was trying to be misleading. That's why it kept emphasizing

687
00:38:53,040 --> 00:38:56,200
Speaker 1: the thorn thing. It was. I think it was trying

688
00:38:56,200 --> 00:38:58,719
Speaker 1: to suggest your animals will not get hurt. You know,

689
00:38:59,200 --> 00:39:02,120
Speaker 1: they will just uh, you know, it will just deter them.

690
00:39:02,280 --> 00:39:04,799
Speaker 1: It's just true, we're just strategically deploying something that they

691
00:39:04,800 --> 00:39:08,560
Speaker 1: would otherwise encounter naturally. But that's not really quite the case.

692
00:39:09,239 --> 00:39:13,960
Speaker 1: Um So, cattleman did not really take kindly to barbed

693
00:39:13,960 --> 00:39:17,360
Speaker 1: wire for a very long time. It was also apparently

694
00:39:17,400 --> 00:39:20,279
Speaker 1: decried by Texans is not only cruel and alien to

695
00:39:20,320 --> 00:39:23,800
Speaker 1: the culture of the open range, but also as um

696
00:39:23,800 --> 00:39:26,800
Speaker 1: as Krell points out quote a Yankee scheme to benefit

697
00:39:26,880 --> 00:39:29,880
Speaker 1: the industrial North, which I don't know. I mean, you

698
00:39:29,920 --> 00:39:32,839
Speaker 1: can you can certainly understand that point of view, right

699
00:39:32,920 --> 00:39:35,640
Speaker 1: because look at some of the places it's coming from,

700
00:39:35,680 --> 00:39:38,480
Speaker 1: So some of the birthplaces of the barbed wire industry.

701
00:39:38,960 --> 00:39:41,080
Speaker 1: You could easily see it's like, well, this is some

702
00:39:41,120 --> 00:39:43,439
Speaker 1: stuff that's made up North, and they're bringing it down here,

703
00:39:43,840 --> 00:39:45,880
Speaker 1: and they're just selling it to all these farmers, and

704
00:39:45,880 --> 00:39:48,239
Speaker 1: it's just cutting up our land. And so this is

705
00:39:48,719 --> 00:39:51,360
Speaker 1: this is like a whole part of of you know,

706
00:39:51,600 --> 00:39:53,719
Speaker 1: sort of wild West history. I guess it wasn't that

707
00:39:53,760 --> 00:39:57,040
Speaker 1: familiar with, but cattleman would would sometimes get fed up

708
00:39:57,040 --> 00:39:59,040
Speaker 1: with it, and they'd go and they just cut down

709
00:39:59,160 --> 00:40:01,640
Speaker 1: like miles of barb wired fencing, sometimes as part of

710
00:40:01,719 --> 00:40:05,680
Speaker 1: masked gangs working at night. And these masked gangs sometimes

711
00:40:05,719 --> 00:40:10,239
Speaker 1: even had cool gang titles, um, And then they at

712
00:40:10,239 --> 00:40:12,359
Speaker 1: first it was illegal fencing, but then they would also

713
00:40:12,800 --> 00:40:17,439
Speaker 1: use these vigilante powers against legal fencing as well. And

714
00:40:17,600 --> 00:40:19,880
Speaker 1: in terms of just sort of the humane or inhumane

715
00:40:19,880 --> 00:40:23,719
Speaker 1: aspect of barbed wire, you had varieties of more humane

716
00:40:23,800 --> 00:40:26,880
Speaker 1: barbed wire designs that were rolled out the idea of

717
00:40:26,880 --> 00:40:29,359
Speaker 1: being that would be easier for a cattle to uh

718
00:40:29,400 --> 00:40:32,360
Speaker 1: to to be freed from them. Uh. Some one variety

719
00:40:32,400 --> 00:40:36,360
Speaker 1: I was looking at in particular had blocks of wood

720
00:40:36,400 --> 00:40:39,799
Speaker 1: that were in set in the wire as well. But

721
00:40:40,120 --> 00:40:42,440
Speaker 1: this ended up not really taking off. And I imagine

722
00:40:42,440 --> 00:40:44,360
Speaker 1: a big part of it is that it's just more

723
00:40:44,400 --> 00:40:49,120
Speaker 1: manufacturing required um either on the industrial end or on

724
00:40:49,160 --> 00:40:51,919
Speaker 1: the farmer's end, and therefore it just wasn't it wasn't

725
00:40:51,960 --> 00:40:55,080
Speaker 1: picked up easier to stick with the crueler product in

726
00:40:55,120 --> 00:40:58,200
Speaker 1: this case. Also, Krall points out that the use of

727
00:40:58,239 --> 00:41:01,760
Speaker 1: barbed wire against humans and animals led to a micro

728
00:41:01,920 --> 00:41:07,040
Speaker 1: industry of barbed wire liniments and antiseptics such as silver

729
00:41:07,160 --> 00:41:11,800
Speaker 1: pine healing oil or Dr Cox liniaments and antiseptic among

730
00:41:11,840 --> 00:41:14,760
Speaker 1: others that basically like you know, kind of snake oil

731
00:41:14,960 --> 00:41:18,480
Speaker 1: esque ointments. They may have done some good, but the

732
00:41:18,480 --> 00:41:21,600
Speaker 1: healing power of Doctor Cox is on your barbed wire.

733
00:41:22,040 --> 00:41:24,960
Speaker 1: But our animals will be healthy as ever exactly. But

734
00:41:25,000 --> 00:41:27,200
Speaker 1: I mean it really shows you like there was there

735
00:41:27,200 --> 00:41:29,560
Speaker 1: were enough people and animals getting cut up by this

736
00:41:29,600 --> 00:41:32,799
Speaker 1: stuff that there was a like a side industry of

737
00:41:32,840 --> 00:41:36,800
Speaker 1: selling specialized ointments to deal with all those cuts. To

738
00:41:37,320 --> 00:41:39,960
Speaker 1: humans and livestock. Yeah, totally. And as long as we're

739
00:41:39,960 --> 00:41:44,200
Speaker 1: talking about the cultural impact, I mean, obviously, barbed wire

740
00:41:44,200 --> 00:41:46,279
Speaker 1: I think came to be seen as one of the

741
00:41:46,320 --> 00:41:51,040
Speaker 1: most iconic technologies symbolizing the brutal conquest of the North

742
00:41:51,080 --> 00:41:55,040
Speaker 1: American continent from from the native peoples who lived there. Yeah,

743
00:41:55,040 --> 00:41:58,520
Speaker 1: this is where apparently the name the Devil's rope comes from.

744
00:41:58,600 --> 00:42:01,640
Speaker 1: That was one of the the names for it that

745
00:42:01,719 --> 00:42:03,880
Speaker 1: was used by the native peoples of North America. Some

746
00:42:03,920 --> 00:42:06,600
Speaker 1: of the Plains tribes called the Devil's rope. Yeah. And

747
00:42:06,600 --> 00:42:10,160
Speaker 1: and speaking too of the of the pre colonial um

748
00:42:10,440 --> 00:42:13,480
Speaker 1: uh you know a West, it's not only humans and

749
00:42:13,520 --> 00:42:16,480
Speaker 1: domestic herds that were impacted, but also the American bison,

750
00:42:16,560 --> 00:42:19,960
Speaker 1: which of course more famously suffered from over hunting, hunted

751
00:42:20,000 --> 00:42:22,320
Speaker 1: to the you know, the brink of extinction, but also

752
00:42:22,440 --> 00:42:25,520
Speaker 1: this ever expanding use of barbed wire also cut them

753
00:42:25,560 --> 00:42:29,720
Speaker 1: off from vital grazing and watering areas. So while the

754
00:42:29,719 --> 00:42:32,440
Speaker 1: story of the invention of barbed wire is an interesting one,

755
00:42:32,480 --> 00:42:35,239
Speaker 1: it's hard not to be left, uh, I don't know,

756
00:42:35,280 --> 00:42:37,640
Speaker 1: when you just think about the impact of this technology

757
00:42:37,760 --> 00:42:42,239
Speaker 1: left with a pretty depressing uh landscape. Yeah, yeah, and

758
00:42:42,280 --> 00:42:46,240
Speaker 1: it it does literally make a landscape look depressing, uh,

759
00:42:46,400 --> 00:42:48,480
Speaker 1: at least the more you think about it. It's like, again,

760
00:42:48,600 --> 00:42:51,040
Speaker 1: barbed wire is something especially if you've grown up around it,

761
00:42:51,120 --> 00:42:53,719
Speaker 1: you can you can take it for granted, especially if

762
00:42:53,719 --> 00:42:56,840
Speaker 1: it is not used so much against your you you know,

763
00:42:56,880 --> 00:42:59,160
Speaker 1: if it's used sort of if it's used against livestock

764
00:42:59,600 --> 00:43:03,080
Speaker 1: or again against um, you know, people in an outline

765
00:43:03,120 --> 00:43:05,040
Speaker 1: group that you are not a part of. Perhaps you

766
00:43:05,080 --> 00:43:08,080
Speaker 1: can you can people lying to its impact as well.

767
00:43:08,520 --> 00:43:12,080
Speaker 1: But um, yeah, for the most part, it's um, it's

768
00:43:12,080 --> 00:43:14,560
Speaker 1: not an invention that I would really classify in the

769
00:43:14,600 --> 00:43:18,920
Speaker 1: good category. However, there a couple of examples of of

770
00:43:19,360 --> 00:43:22,840
Speaker 1: of uses for barbed wire, uh, both of which surprised me.

771
00:43:23,800 --> 00:43:27,160
Speaker 1: The first of which is that while barbed wire couldn't

772
00:43:27,200 --> 00:43:30,479
Speaker 1: transmit a signal as well as traditional telephone wire, which

773
00:43:30,560 --> 00:43:34,040
Speaker 1: is you know, insulated copper wiring. Uh. You still saw

774
00:43:34,080 --> 00:43:37,640
Speaker 1: this case in the early nineteen thirties where rural farmers

775
00:43:37,640 --> 00:43:40,160
Speaker 1: were some of the early adopters of this new technology

776
00:43:40,280 --> 00:43:44,200
Speaker 1: of telephone lines, and for a few years they would

777
00:43:44,280 --> 00:43:47,480
Speaker 1: they were actually using barbed wire because they had to

778
00:43:47,600 --> 00:43:51,440
Speaker 1: build out their own telephone collectives and without access to

779
00:43:51,640 --> 00:43:54,080
Speaker 1: easy access to all that insulated copper wire they had

780
00:43:54,080 --> 00:43:56,520
Speaker 1: access to the to the barbed wire, they just string

781
00:43:56,560 --> 00:43:59,880
Speaker 1: the barbed wire instead, which is which is in our

782
00:44:00,360 --> 00:44:03,399
Speaker 1: I wonder what this call sounded like, Well, probably pretty rough,

783
00:44:03,600 --> 00:44:08,319
Speaker 1: probably just just clear enough to get by. Um. And

784
00:44:08,360 --> 00:44:10,640
Speaker 1: then this is like just a few years before then

785
00:44:10,680 --> 00:44:13,320
Speaker 1: it was replaced and also at that point of farmers

786
00:44:13,360 --> 00:44:16,040
Speaker 1: were no longer required to string their own wiring. Now

787
00:44:16,080 --> 00:44:21,160
Speaker 1: a more surprising use, though it was, is multiple cases

788
00:44:21,160 --> 00:44:24,080
Speaker 1: that came across off in which barbed wire has been

789
00:44:24,200 --> 00:44:28,080
Speaker 1: used for science. Um, so you have a great many

790
00:44:28,120 --> 00:44:31,480
Speaker 1: studies that utilize strands of barbed wire. Usually it's like

791
00:44:31,520 --> 00:44:36,400
Speaker 1: a single strand to study bear populations. So basically what

792
00:44:36,520 --> 00:44:39,280
Speaker 1: you have is a situation where researchers will use single

793
00:44:39,360 --> 00:44:43,520
Speaker 1: strands of barbed wire to obtain for samples from wild

794
00:44:43,560 --> 00:44:47,600
Speaker 1: bear populations for DNA testing. And this also entails baiting

795
00:44:47,640 --> 00:44:51,239
Speaker 1: them a little bit, which according to Tom Dixon of

796
00:44:51,360 --> 00:44:55,080
Speaker 1: Montana Outdoors, this would be a bottle that contains quote

797
00:44:55,280 --> 00:44:57,960
Speaker 1: year old a year old fermented mix of cow blood

798
00:44:58,000 --> 00:45:01,600
Speaker 1: and fish guts, which to human is pretty disgusting, but

799
00:45:01,719 --> 00:45:06,120
Speaker 1: to a bear worth checking out. So yeah, this is

800
00:45:06,160 --> 00:45:08,080
Speaker 1: this is fascinating. So the idea, of course is not

801
00:45:08,120 --> 00:45:12,040
Speaker 1: to to hurt the bear, and really not even necessarily

802
00:45:12,080 --> 00:45:15,440
Speaker 1: to to like scrape into its skin, but to catch

803
00:45:15,480 --> 00:45:18,520
Speaker 1: some of its fur. This ample, you know, fur armor

804
00:45:18,560 --> 00:45:21,919
Speaker 1: that like a black bear has on its body. So

805
00:45:22,000 --> 00:45:24,399
Speaker 1: the barrel come to check out the bait, and when

806
00:45:24,440 --> 00:45:27,959
Speaker 1: it does so, the the barbs on the barbed wire

807
00:45:28,000 --> 00:45:30,280
Speaker 1: will catch some of the fur and pull it free.

808
00:45:30,640 --> 00:45:33,719
Speaker 1: And then researchers are able to use that fur and

809
00:45:33,800 --> 00:45:36,120
Speaker 1: you know, look at the DNA and use it to understand,

810
00:45:36,560 --> 00:45:40,479
Speaker 1: you know, basically the shape of wild bear populations. So

811
00:45:41,239 --> 00:45:43,160
Speaker 1: we can at least we can put that. Then another

812
00:45:43,280 --> 00:45:48,320
Speaker 1: check under the positive uses of barbed wire in world

813
00:45:48,360 --> 00:45:51,600
Speaker 1: history a way of caring for bear populations. I like it,

814
00:45:53,400 --> 00:45:55,600
Speaker 1: but that's all I have. Sorry, it's just those two.

815
00:45:56,200 --> 00:45:59,279
Speaker 1: That's those are the only examples there. It's also fun

816
00:45:59,320 --> 00:46:02,080
Speaker 1: to play with, is it barbed wire? Kind of I

817
00:46:02,120 --> 00:46:06,680
Speaker 1: don't know. When I was a kid, backyard wrestlers were

818
00:46:06,719 --> 00:46:08,640
Speaker 1: playing with No, no, no, not not for it's I

819
00:46:08,640 --> 00:46:10,680
Speaker 1: don't know. It's just like kind of cool, like whip

820
00:46:10,680 --> 00:46:15,719
Speaker 1: around and stuff. Oh well, I guess, um, I don't know. Well,

821
00:46:15,800 --> 00:46:17,400
Speaker 1: it's fun to play with in the same way that

822
00:46:17,440 --> 00:46:19,759
Speaker 1: like a good sticks fun to play with. Well, you know,

823
00:46:19,800 --> 00:46:22,320
Speaker 1: I don't. Here's the thing I do remember, like kids,

824
00:46:23,000 --> 00:46:25,719
Speaker 1: when when I was a kid in Newfoundland, Canada, the

825
00:46:25,760 --> 00:46:29,040
Speaker 1: other kids, the older kids, the dangerous kids, were into

826
00:46:29,920 --> 00:46:34,520
Speaker 1: two things. Michael Jackson. Uh those red uh leather jackets,

827
00:46:34,520 --> 00:46:37,440
Speaker 1: you know, like Michael Jackson. Really yeah, those were very popular.

828
00:46:37,719 --> 00:46:41,080
Speaker 1: And then everybody was making They were making like a

829
00:46:41,160 --> 00:46:43,920
Speaker 1: like a mace out of a stick of wood that

830
00:46:44,000 --> 00:46:46,719
Speaker 1: had nails driven through it. So um, you know, they're

831
00:46:46,760 --> 00:46:48,160
Speaker 1: just it was like The Lord of the Flies. I

832
00:46:48,160 --> 00:46:50,800
Speaker 1: guess it sounds like an eighties movie. Yeah, it was it.

833
00:46:51,120 --> 00:46:54,560
Speaker 1: This was the eighties. Were they on rollerblades? No, because

834
00:46:55,000 --> 00:46:57,520
Speaker 1: the roads were all gravel where I was. I don't

835
00:46:57,520 --> 00:46:59,480
Speaker 1: know what you would have done with a roller blade there,

836
00:47:00,000 --> 00:47:02,120
Speaker 1: But I don't remember there being a lot of barbed

837
00:47:02,120 --> 00:47:04,319
Speaker 1: wire around it. If there had been, I'm sure they

838
00:47:04,320 --> 00:47:07,600
Speaker 1: would have wrapped it around their makeshift melee weapons. Did

839
00:47:07,600 --> 00:47:10,520
Speaker 1: they answer to Lord Humongous? They I'm sure they knew

840
00:47:10,719 --> 00:47:12,880
Speaker 1: Lord Humongous he was. I think he was pretty popular

841
00:47:12,920 --> 00:47:16,120
Speaker 1: at the time. Um, but yeah, I think that would

842
00:47:16,120 --> 00:47:19,279
Speaker 1: have been the window for me encountering people playing with

843
00:47:19,320 --> 00:47:21,360
Speaker 1: barbed wire. For the most part, I think I was

844
00:47:21,400 --> 00:47:23,880
Speaker 1: always like a little wary of it because when I

845
00:47:23,920 --> 00:47:26,719
Speaker 1: would encounter barbed wire, either there was either there was

846
00:47:26,719 --> 00:47:28,840
Speaker 1: a very good chance it was either like super rusty,

847
00:47:29,640 --> 00:47:32,399
Speaker 1: uh and and therefore kind of icky, or it might

848
00:47:32,440 --> 00:47:35,200
Speaker 1: be electrified and therefore I really don't want to touch it.

849
00:47:35,440 --> 00:47:37,399
Speaker 1: Of course, that's that's another feature we didn't even mention

850
00:47:37,440 --> 00:47:40,400
Speaker 1: about barbed wires that's strong properly, then you can put

851
00:47:40,440 --> 00:47:44,719
Speaker 1: an electric current through it, which adds to its effectiveness. Yeah,

852
00:47:44,760 --> 00:47:47,760
Speaker 1: And I think in some cases us to like especially

853
00:47:47,760 --> 00:47:51,879
Speaker 1: in ranching or you know, livestock control whatever, places where

854
00:47:51,880 --> 00:47:54,480
Speaker 1: you would once have barbed wire have been replaced mostly

855
00:47:54,480 --> 00:47:56,840
Speaker 1: with electric fence because if you have an electric current

856
00:47:56,880 --> 00:47:59,720
Speaker 1: going through it, you need not have actual barbs because

857
00:47:59,760 --> 00:48:02,440
Speaker 1: you have electric barbs. But I will come back to

858
00:48:02,520 --> 00:48:05,040
Speaker 1: what I said earlier, is that I think that our

859
00:48:05,080 --> 00:48:07,960
Speaker 1: attitudes toward barbed wire, you know, they're going to really

860
00:48:08,080 --> 00:48:11,279
Speaker 1: revolve around our own experience and like the area in

861
00:48:11,280 --> 00:48:13,160
Speaker 1: which we encountered it. So I'd love to hear from

862
00:48:13,480 --> 00:48:16,840
Speaker 1: listeners out there, like what, how how do you interact

863
00:48:16,880 --> 00:48:18,839
Speaker 1: with barbed wire, Like, what is what comes to mind

864
00:48:18,880 --> 00:48:21,040
Speaker 1: when you think of barbed wire? And to what extent

865
00:48:21,200 --> 00:48:23,640
Speaker 1: is it influenced by the way it is used in

866
00:48:23,719 --> 00:48:27,920
Speaker 1: your rural setting and your urban setting? Uh as it's

867
00:48:28,040 --> 00:48:30,880
Speaker 1: used in say you know, prison environments, or you know

868
00:48:30,960 --> 00:48:34,880
Speaker 1: border environments, or uh used in in in uh you

869
00:48:34,880 --> 00:48:38,960
Speaker 1: know in warfare, fortifications, etcetera. I'd love to hear from

870
00:48:39,000 --> 00:48:41,920
Speaker 1: everybody on these on these points. In the meantime, if

871
00:48:41,920 --> 00:48:44,480
Speaker 1: you want to check out other episodes of Invention, including

872
00:48:44,520 --> 00:48:46,920
Speaker 1: that that episode that we did on walls, for example,

873
00:48:47,239 --> 00:48:49,359
Speaker 1: you can head on over to invention pod dot com.

874
00:48:49,400 --> 00:48:52,000
Speaker 1: That will shoot you over to the I heart listing

875
00:48:52,080 --> 00:48:55,520
Speaker 1: for this show. But you can find us absolutely anywhere

876
00:48:55,560 --> 00:48:58,080
Speaker 1: wherever you get your podcasts and wherever that happens to

877
00:48:58,120 --> 00:49:01,719
Speaker 1: be Just a rate you and subscribe. Those are some

878
00:49:01,800 --> 00:49:04,200
Speaker 1: acts you can you can do that really help us out. Also,

879
00:49:04,280 --> 00:49:07,320
Speaker 1: tell a friend, if you enjoy Invention, tell another human

880
00:49:07,360 --> 00:49:10,399
Speaker 1: being about the show and perhaps they'll enjoy it as well.

881
00:49:10,800 --> 00:49:13,520
Speaker 1: And I'm suddenly remembering we didn't even get into tattoos.

882
00:49:13,560 --> 00:49:16,600
Speaker 1: How many tattoos of barbed wire are there? And then

883
00:49:16,680 --> 00:49:19,960
Speaker 1: I wonder are people really appreciating all the varieties of

884
00:49:19,960 --> 00:49:22,560
Speaker 1: barbed wire. If you're thinking of getting a barbed wire tattoo,

885
00:49:23,520 --> 00:49:26,600
Speaker 1: stop and go, get go, Get that book that I

886
00:49:26,640 --> 00:49:30,240
Speaker 1: mentioned earlier with the seven hundred and something different varieties

887
00:49:30,280 --> 00:49:32,600
Speaker 1: of barbed wire, and just just look around a little bit,

888
00:49:32,640 --> 00:49:34,840
Speaker 1: do a little shopping, a little window shopping before you

889
00:49:34,880 --> 00:49:38,080
Speaker 1: decide on a particular brand of barbed wire that is

890
00:49:38,120 --> 00:49:40,120
Speaker 1: gonna be tattooed around your bicep. Get one of the

891
00:49:40,120 --> 00:49:44,040
Speaker 1: French varieties. Yeah. Huge, Thanks as always to our excellent

892
00:49:44,080 --> 00:49:47,080
Speaker 1: audio producer Seth Nicholas Johnson. If you would like to

893
00:49:47,080 --> 00:49:49,360
Speaker 1: get in touch with us with feedback on this episode

894
00:49:49,480 --> 00:49:51,600
Speaker 1: or any other, to suggest a topic for the future,

895
00:49:51,719 --> 00:49:54,879
Speaker 1: just to say hello, you can email us at contact

896
00:49:55,080 --> 00:50:01,319
Speaker 1: at invention pod dot com. Invention is production of I

897
00:50:01,400 --> 00:50:04,200
Speaker 1: Heart Radio. For more podcasts for my heart Radio, visit

898
00:50:04,239 --> 00:50:06,600
Speaker 1: the i heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you

899
00:50:06,640 --> 00:50:08,520
Speaker 1: listen to your favorite shows. M