1 00:00:02,920 --> 00:00:13,480 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio News. This is Bloomberg Daybreak Weekend, 2 00:00:13,520 --> 00:00:15,480 Speaker 1: our global look at the top stories in the coming 3 00:00:15,480 --> 00:00:18,280 Speaker 1: week from our Daybreak anchors all around the world. Straight 4 00:00:18,320 --> 00:00:20,000 Speaker 1: ahead on the program, and look at what some of 5 00:00:20,079 --> 00:00:22,919 Speaker 1: the top fed officials may have to say at this 6 00:00:23,040 --> 00:00:26,840 Speaker 1: year's Jackson Hole Symposium. I'm Tom Busby in New York. 7 00:00:27,360 --> 00:00:31,920 Speaker 2: I'm Karlin Hepburn London, where we're dissecting the UK's immigration dilemma. 8 00:00:32,479 --> 00:00:35,920 Speaker 3: I'm Doug Prisoner looking at Tim Walls's relationship with China 9 00:00:36,000 --> 00:00:39,040 Speaker 3: as he prepares to take the stage at the Democratic 10 00:00:39,120 --> 00:00:39,920 Speaker 3: National Convention. 11 00:00:41,520 --> 00:00:45,520 Speaker 4: That's all straight ahead on Bloomberg Daybreak Weekend on Bloomberg 12 00:00:45,560 --> 00:00:49,360 Speaker 4: Eleve Them three Own New York, Bloomberg ninety nine to one, Washington, DC, 13 00:00:49,680 --> 00:00:53,720 Speaker 4: Bloomberg one O six one, Boston, Bloomberg nine sixty, San Francisco, 14 00:00:53,960 --> 00:00:58,160 Speaker 4: DAB Digital Radio, London, Sirius XM one nineteen and around 15 00:00:58,240 --> 00:01:00,760 Speaker 4: the world on Bloomberg Radio dot Com. Come and buya 16 00:01:00,800 --> 00:01:02,080 Speaker 4: the Bloomberg Business app. 17 00:01:06,120 --> 00:01:08,319 Speaker 1: Good day to you. I'm Tom Busby. We begin today's 18 00:01:08,360 --> 00:01:11,480 Speaker 1: program with a look at the Annual Economic Policy Symposium 19 00:01:11,520 --> 00:01:14,959 Speaker 1: in Jackson Hall, Wyoming this week the Federal Reserve Bank 20 00:01:15,000 --> 00:01:20,520 Speaker 1: of Kansas City will host dozens of central bankers, policymakers, academics, economists. 21 00:01:19,800 --> 00:01:20,840 Speaker 5: From all over the world. 22 00:01:21,200 --> 00:01:24,880 Speaker 1: FED Chair J Powell expected to give remarks on Friday, 23 00:01:24,880 --> 00:01:27,360 Speaker 1: and the big questions will he set the table for 24 00:01:27,440 --> 00:01:30,200 Speaker 1: a September interest rate cut and how big a cut 25 00:01:30,280 --> 00:01:33,560 Speaker 1: could we see? For more, we're joined by Michael McKee, 26 00:01:33,600 --> 00:01:38,360 Speaker 1: Bloomberg International Economics and Policy correspondent. Well, Michael Powell has 27 00:01:38,360 --> 00:01:40,800 Speaker 1: said all along any change in rates will be a 28 00:01:40,959 --> 00:01:44,520 Speaker 1: data driven decision. Let's talk about the data and what 29 00:01:44,520 --> 00:01:45,760 Speaker 1: you're expecting this week. 30 00:01:45,959 --> 00:01:50,160 Speaker 6: Well, we've got data driving the economy towards a rate 31 00:01:50,240 --> 00:01:54,320 Speaker 6: cut in September. This past week, we saw inflation come 32 00:01:54,360 --> 00:01:59,559 Speaker 6: down significantly and also symbolically as the headline CPI number 33 00:01:59,600 --> 00:02:01,720 Speaker 6: comes in two point nine percent, the first time it's 34 00:02:01,720 --> 00:02:05,040 Speaker 6: been below three percent since the beginning of the pandemic. 35 00:02:05,160 --> 00:02:08,919 Speaker 6: So good news on the inflation front. And then we 36 00:02:09,000 --> 00:02:12,880 Speaker 6: saw late in the week the retail sales numbers come 37 00:02:12,919 --> 00:02:17,360 Speaker 6: in strong, stronger than expected certainly, and Americans are still spending. 38 00:02:17,400 --> 00:02:20,040 Speaker 6: So the idea of a recession is kind of off 39 00:02:20,080 --> 00:02:23,799 Speaker 6: the table, but this kind of lines everything up for 40 00:02:23,960 --> 00:02:27,560 Speaker 6: a rate cut in September. Now there's more data to 41 00:02:27,600 --> 00:02:31,600 Speaker 6: come in September, but no significant data before Jay Powell speaks. 42 00:02:32,040 --> 00:02:34,560 Speaker 1: Let me take a step back. Two weeks ago, we 43 00:02:34,600 --> 00:02:38,120 Speaker 1: saw the Dow tumble one thousand points. Some people on 44 00:02:38,160 --> 00:02:40,359 Speaker 1: Wall Street, yes, there was the carry trade in Japan, 45 00:02:40,400 --> 00:02:42,720 Speaker 1: which was a big part of that. But also some 46 00:02:42,760 --> 00:02:45,000 Speaker 1: people on Wall Street said it's because the Fed missed 47 00:02:45,000 --> 00:02:48,959 Speaker 1: the boat on just prior to that, leaving rates unchanged 48 00:02:48,960 --> 00:02:51,280 Speaker 1: for I think the eighth meeting in a row. But 49 00:02:51,400 --> 00:02:54,880 Speaker 1: the Fed didn't budge, no emergency cut, no panicking. What 50 00:02:54,919 --> 00:02:57,760 Speaker 1: does this tell you about Jay Powell and the Fed 51 00:02:58,000 --> 00:03:01,520 Speaker 1: that they just ignore the noise and carry on. 52 00:03:01,800 --> 00:03:04,320 Speaker 6: How did you survive the great recession of August date? 53 00:03:06,600 --> 00:03:09,080 Speaker 6: It tells you that the Fed is not the market. 54 00:03:09,320 --> 00:03:11,040 Speaker 6: The market is trying to adjust on a day by 55 00:03:11,080 --> 00:03:14,560 Speaker 6: day basis, and people get into herd behavior or panic behavior, 56 00:03:14,960 --> 00:03:18,240 Speaker 6: and we see that all the time. The Fed is 57 00:03:18,800 --> 00:03:21,280 Speaker 6: going to be much slower to react. First of all, 58 00:03:22,240 --> 00:03:25,520 Speaker 6: they don't really care whether the market goes up or 59 00:03:25,639 --> 00:03:28,680 Speaker 6: down as long as you can still trade. If the 60 00:03:28,800 --> 00:03:33,160 Speaker 6: market is functioning, then the Fed tends to leave it alone. 61 00:03:33,240 --> 00:03:35,240 Speaker 6: The only time they really jump in with any kind 62 00:03:35,240 --> 00:03:38,440 Speaker 6: of emergency help is when the market sees up because 63 00:03:38,480 --> 00:03:41,520 Speaker 6: people won't trade, and that's not the case. It wasn't 64 00:03:41,520 --> 00:03:44,560 Speaker 6: the case that week either. It was just that those 65 00:03:44,600 --> 00:03:47,360 Speaker 6: who were trading were losing money, and that's not the 66 00:03:47,360 --> 00:03:50,400 Speaker 6: Fed's job to keep them to keep them there. And 67 00:03:50,440 --> 00:03:52,520 Speaker 6: what's funny is you see we saw this at the 68 00:03:52,520 --> 00:03:54,760 Speaker 6: beginning of the year, six rate cuts, price did and 69 00:03:54,760 --> 00:03:57,400 Speaker 6: then we got down to like one, and then we 70 00:03:57,440 --> 00:04:00,440 Speaker 6: got down to is the Fed going to cut it all? 71 00:04:00,600 --> 00:04:02,720 Speaker 6: And then all of a sudden we had people panicking 72 00:04:02,720 --> 00:04:05,680 Speaker 6: and saying we're going to get four or five rate cuts, 73 00:04:06,000 --> 00:04:09,560 Speaker 6: and the Fed through all this hasn't changed anything. The 74 00:04:09,600 --> 00:04:11,000 Speaker 6: interest rate has stayed the same. 75 00:04:12,000 --> 00:04:12,160 Speaker 4: Now. 76 00:04:12,200 --> 00:04:14,280 Speaker 1: I know you mentioned the jobs report though, or what 77 00:04:14,320 --> 00:04:17,040 Speaker 1: we're going to get before the next meeting September sixth. 78 00:04:17,040 --> 00:04:19,320 Speaker 1: We're going to get the August jobs report. I know 79 00:04:19,360 --> 00:04:21,960 Speaker 1: it's far off, but we have seen what the FED 80 00:04:22,080 --> 00:04:24,960 Speaker 1: was expecting, a little slow down in job creation. Are 81 00:04:25,000 --> 00:04:27,440 Speaker 1: you expecting more of the same for the month of August. 82 00:04:27,960 --> 00:04:28,400 Speaker 7: We are. 83 00:04:28,600 --> 00:04:30,520 Speaker 6: I've talked to a number of economists. It's too early 84 00:04:30,560 --> 00:04:33,280 Speaker 6: for them to make forecasts, but basically they're thinking that 85 00:04:33,320 --> 00:04:37,039 Speaker 6: we are going to rebound from the July numbers and 86 00:04:37,760 --> 00:04:40,560 Speaker 6: go back up in terms of job creation and maybe 87 00:04:41,240 --> 00:04:45,560 Speaker 6: even go down in terms of the unemployment rate. But 88 00:04:45,640 --> 00:04:48,359 Speaker 6: they don't have a great firm grasp on number. But 89 00:04:48,400 --> 00:04:51,400 Speaker 6: they do think that we may not go above job 90 00:04:51,440 --> 00:04:54,200 Speaker 6: creation as we saw it for much of this year, 91 00:04:54,600 --> 00:04:58,080 Speaker 6: but that it will be higher than the number we 92 00:04:58,120 --> 00:04:59,039 Speaker 6: saw in July. 93 00:04:59,400 --> 00:05:02,880 Speaker 1: Well that's good. Now, eight meetings in a row, rates 94 00:05:02,920 --> 00:05:06,080 Speaker 1: have been left unchanged. The last change in rates a 95 00:05:06,160 --> 00:05:08,960 Speaker 1: hike in July of last year. The last cut was 96 00:05:09,080 --> 00:05:11,680 Speaker 1: over four years ago, at the start of the pandemic, 97 00:05:11,839 --> 00:05:16,200 Speaker 1: so historically there hasn't been much movement since then, you know, 98 00:05:16,320 --> 00:05:21,680 Speaker 1: little incremental certainly the past year. What do you hear 99 00:05:21,800 --> 00:05:25,360 Speaker 1: from not just Jerome Powell, but other FED governors and 100 00:05:25,440 --> 00:05:30,200 Speaker 1: presidents about what's coming up in September and what are 101 00:05:30,240 --> 00:05:34,640 Speaker 1: the hints allegations of what we can expect to see. 102 00:05:34,680 --> 00:05:38,560 Speaker 6: Well, they basically are kind of united around the idea 103 00:05:38,600 --> 00:05:41,840 Speaker 6: that it is almost time to cut interest rates. There's 104 00:05:41,880 --> 00:05:45,520 Speaker 6: some difference between them in terms of whether they really 105 00:05:45,560 --> 00:05:47,880 Speaker 6: think they need to go in September or whether they 106 00:05:48,080 --> 00:05:51,080 Speaker 6: could wait. But I think when you get to the 107 00:05:51,160 --> 00:05:54,760 Speaker 6: September eighteenth meeting. If we don't see any big data 108 00:05:54,800 --> 00:05:58,320 Speaker 6: surprises between now and then, you'll get another unanimous decision, 109 00:05:59,480 --> 00:06:03,040 Speaker 6: because there isn't a real argument for keeping rates as 110 00:06:03,160 --> 00:06:06,640 Speaker 6: high as they are right now. The housing industry would 111 00:06:06,680 --> 00:06:10,719 Speaker 6: certainly love to see rates go down. That's the one 112 00:06:10,880 --> 00:06:14,720 Speaker 6: lagging part of the economy. And so if they get 113 00:06:14,720 --> 00:06:19,560 Speaker 6: December September eighteenth, I think they start the process, and 114 00:06:19,640 --> 00:06:22,760 Speaker 6: probably not with a fifty basis point cut, but they 115 00:06:22,800 --> 00:06:26,400 Speaker 6: may cut two more times this year and into next 116 00:06:26,480 --> 00:06:29,360 Speaker 6: year as they feel their way toward what a neutral 117 00:06:29,440 --> 00:06:30,039 Speaker 6: level will be. 118 00:06:30,880 --> 00:06:32,960 Speaker 1: Now a little plug here, Michael, you're going to be 119 00:06:33,200 --> 00:06:35,480 Speaker 1: in Jackson hole. Who are you going to speak with 120 00:06:35,560 --> 00:06:36,279 Speaker 1: this coming week? 121 00:06:37,160 --> 00:06:42,200 Speaker 6: I'm Tom Keen. He's welcome, He's welcome. We're going to 122 00:06:42,240 --> 00:06:45,880 Speaker 6: speak with raphae Albostik from Atlanta, who justice last week 123 00:06:45,920 --> 00:06:49,440 Speaker 6: said he's open to a September rate cut. We'll talk 124 00:06:49,480 --> 00:06:51,800 Speaker 6: to Austin Goolsby from Chicago, who's been one of the 125 00:06:51,880 --> 00:06:57,400 Speaker 6: more dubbish and interested in seeing a rate cut. And 126 00:06:57,480 --> 00:07:00,800 Speaker 6: we'll talk to Patrick Harker from Philadelphia, who has been 127 00:07:01,400 --> 00:07:05,040 Speaker 6: somewhat quiet about his views, but I think he's going 128 00:07:05,120 --> 00:07:07,200 Speaker 6: to be on board with the idea of a rate 129 00:07:07,279 --> 00:07:08,880 Speaker 6: cut as well. We're also going to talk to Est 130 00:07:08,960 --> 00:07:12,760 Speaker 6: George and lare Mester, two familiar names who are no 131 00:07:12,840 --> 00:07:16,880 Speaker 6: longer at the FED, but are still invited to the conference, 132 00:07:16,960 --> 00:07:19,720 Speaker 6: so they'll give us their views from the outside of 133 00:07:19,760 --> 00:07:20,760 Speaker 6: what the FED could be doing. 134 00:07:20,800 --> 00:07:20,880 Speaker 8: Well. 135 00:07:20,920 --> 00:07:22,120 Speaker 1: It's always nice to be invited. 136 00:07:22,160 --> 00:07:22,320 Speaker 8: Well. 137 00:07:22,320 --> 00:07:26,720 Speaker 1: Our thanks to Michael McKee, Bloomberg International Economics and Policy correspondent. 138 00:07:27,320 --> 00:07:29,880 Speaker 1: While we wait for that Jackson Hole summit, we focus 139 00:07:29,960 --> 00:07:32,880 Speaker 1: now a bit more on the US consumer now. Last week, 140 00:07:32,920 --> 00:07:36,560 Speaker 1: after a strong Q two earnings report, Walmart raised its 141 00:07:36,600 --> 00:07:39,560 Speaker 1: sales guidance for the full year, expecting even more bargain 142 00:07:39,600 --> 00:07:42,160 Speaker 1: hunting shoppers to head to its stores and its website. 143 00:07:42,640 --> 00:07:46,600 Speaker 1: This week. A top discount competitor, Target Stores, reporting second 144 00:07:46,640 --> 00:07:50,320 Speaker 1: quarter earnings on Wednesday. That follows a disappointing first quarter. 145 00:07:50,400 --> 00:07:52,480 Speaker 1: The question though, how is the chain holding up in 146 00:07:52,480 --> 00:07:55,960 Speaker 1: this high inflation environment? What will its results tell us 147 00:07:55,960 --> 00:07:58,080 Speaker 1: about the health of the US consumer? And for more 148 00:07:58,160 --> 00:08:01,640 Speaker 1: on that and what to expect, Joined by Jennifer Bartasha's 149 00:08:01,880 --> 00:08:06,960 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Intelligence Senior analyst Retail, Staples and packaged Foods. So 150 00:08:07,120 --> 00:08:10,040 Speaker 1: Jennifer A. Lot of consumers. Well, they are spending money, 151 00:08:10,120 --> 00:08:13,760 Speaker 1: but they want bargains. My question to you are they 152 00:08:13,760 --> 00:08:15,840 Speaker 1: finding them at Target? And what do you expect to 153 00:08:15,880 --> 00:08:17,400 Speaker 1: see in its earnings report. 154 00:08:17,720 --> 00:08:20,480 Speaker 8: It's a question at the top of everyone's minds. So 155 00:08:20,680 --> 00:08:23,880 Speaker 8: with regards to Target, one of the things to remember 156 00:08:24,040 --> 00:08:26,920 Speaker 8: is that they have a much easier comparison in second 157 00:08:27,000 --> 00:08:29,960 Speaker 8: quarter than they did a year ago because last year 158 00:08:29,960 --> 00:08:31,840 Speaker 8: at this time, it was the quarter where they had 159 00:08:31,880 --> 00:08:35,240 Speaker 8: the backlash from all the consumer boycotts with regards to 160 00:08:35,280 --> 00:08:38,480 Speaker 8: their Pride assortment. So they had a very poor quarter 161 00:08:38,640 --> 00:08:41,240 Speaker 8: a year ago, So the comparisons are a lot easier 162 00:08:41,600 --> 00:08:45,840 Speaker 8: now that said, consumers are still seeking value. One of 163 00:08:45,840 --> 00:08:47,880 Speaker 8: the things that Target has done is they made an 164 00:08:47,880 --> 00:08:51,800 Speaker 8: announcement in July about rolling back prices, especially on food 165 00:08:51,800 --> 00:08:54,880 Speaker 8: and essentials, and that seemed to resonate with people. So 166 00:08:55,000 --> 00:08:57,520 Speaker 8: hopefully we'll see some stronger traffic into stores for the 167 00:08:57,559 --> 00:08:58,160 Speaker 8: second quarter. 168 00:08:59,240 --> 00:09:01,760 Speaker 1: Now, I think the of the Target customer for many 169 00:09:01,760 --> 00:09:04,480 Speaker 1: people a little bit of a higher earner than your 170 00:09:04,480 --> 00:09:08,200 Speaker 1: typical Walmart customer. How do you think Target compares to Walmart? 171 00:09:08,520 --> 00:09:12,760 Speaker 1: It's customer, it's offerings, its prices, price points. 172 00:09:13,280 --> 00:09:17,360 Speaker 8: Historically there was a gap between the typical Target consumer, 173 00:09:17,400 --> 00:09:20,760 Speaker 8: which was a little bit higher income versus the Walmart consumer, 174 00:09:20,840 --> 00:09:23,600 Speaker 8: and their core consumer was usually associated with the lower 175 00:09:23,600 --> 00:09:27,079 Speaker 8: to middle lower income bands. But we've heard Walmart talk 176 00:09:27,120 --> 00:09:30,040 Speaker 8: about the last two quarters that reported earnings that they're 177 00:09:30,040 --> 00:09:34,000 Speaker 8: pulling more higher income households into its sphere and that 178 00:09:34,120 --> 00:09:37,440 Speaker 8: more higher income households are shopping at Walmart. That is 179 00:09:37,480 --> 00:09:39,679 Speaker 8: a bit of a concern for Target because that's kind 180 00:09:39,720 --> 00:09:43,120 Speaker 8: of creeping into what has traditionally been their core consumer. 181 00:09:43,559 --> 00:09:46,120 Speaker 8: So in order to combat that, it really comes down 182 00:09:46,160 --> 00:09:48,720 Speaker 8: to things that Target is good at but just needs 183 00:09:48,760 --> 00:09:52,439 Speaker 8: to continue to execute well. Private label and their fashion, 184 00:09:52,600 --> 00:09:56,280 Speaker 8: you know, being fashion forward, being exactly what consumers want 185 00:09:56,280 --> 00:09:58,640 Speaker 8: before they realize they need it. Those are the things 186 00:09:58,679 --> 00:10:01,560 Speaker 8: that historically have made Target it really stand out from Walmart. 187 00:10:02,280 --> 00:10:05,000 Speaker 8: And you know, it's a little bit hard when discretionary 188 00:10:05,000 --> 00:10:07,960 Speaker 8: spending is still a bit soft, but that's really where 189 00:10:07,960 --> 00:10:10,880 Speaker 8: they differentiate and can continue to differentiate from Walmart. 190 00:10:11,080 --> 00:10:13,720 Speaker 1: Yeah, and I think their brands is Market, Pantry, Good 191 00:10:13,720 --> 00:10:16,600 Speaker 1: and Gather. Then they have home furnishings like deal Worthy, 192 00:10:17,040 --> 00:10:18,800 Speaker 1: really a big draw I think for a lot of. 193 00:10:18,720 --> 00:10:22,440 Speaker 8: Consumers it really is. And you know, part of what 194 00:10:22,440 --> 00:10:25,600 Speaker 8: what Target is very good at is being fashion forward, 195 00:10:25,600 --> 00:10:28,360 Speaker 8: whether that's in a parallel whether that's in home decor 196 00:10:28,679 --> 00:10:32,040 Speaker 8: whether that's in food and finding things that are you know, 197 00:10:32,280 --> 00:10:34,400 Speaker 8: the developing trends, I think is the way you want 198 00:10:34,440 --> 00:10:36,880 Speaker 8: to say it. And so as long as they can 199 00:10:36,920 --> 00:10:39,920 Speaker 8: stay agile and continue to meet those that is a 200 00:10:40,000 --> 00:10:43,400 Speaker 8: draw for their consumers. One of the things that could 201 00:10:43,400 --> 00:10:46,640 Speaker 8: be in an area of concern for this quarter is 202 00:10:46,679 --> 00:10:49,040 Speaker 8: that in the last three quarters, beauty has been sort 203 00:10:49,080 --> 00:10:52,640 Speaker 8: of something that Target has highlighted. We ran a Bloomberg 204 00:10:52,679 --> 00:10:56,480 Speaker 8: Intelligence Survey consumer survey on beauty and for the first 205 00:10:56,480 --> 00:11:00,040 Speaker 8: time in multiple years, we've seen softening in demand and 206 00:11:00,240 --> 00:11:02,800 Speaker 8: for beauty. So it will be interesting to see if 207 00:11:02,800 --> 00:11:06,520 Speaker 8: that translates through to Target as well. But it is 208 00:11:06,640 --> 00:11:10,439 Speaker 8: kind of a broader indicator that that category, which has 209 00:11:10,640 --> 00:11:12,839 Speaker 8: been pretty strong for Target, is starting to show a 210 00:11:12,840 --> 00:11:13,720 Speaker 8: little bit of weakness. 211 00:11:13,840 --> 00:11:17,719 Speaker 1: Yeah, the lipstick indicator in the economy, that's not that scary. Well, 212 00:11:17,760 --> 00:11:20,400 Speaker 1: I have another question about Target, and it's about e commerce. 213 00:11:20,679 --> 00:11:23,600 Speaker 1: You know, obviously Amazon is the king, but are they 214 00:11:23,640 --> 00:11:26,280 Speaker 1: in the same league as some of their competitors. Are 215 00:11:26,360 --> 00:11:27,480 Speaker 1: they a little behind? 216 00:11:27,840 --> 00:11:31,320 Speaker 8: Well, Target executes very well on e commerce, but they 217 00:11:31,400 --> 00:11:33,800 Speaker 8: have a different strategy. They're not trying to conquer the 218 00:11:33,840 --> 00:11:37,640 Speaker 8: world with regards to e commerce. So Target traditionally has 219 00:11:37,800 --> 00:11:41,400 Speaker 8: been very has taken an approach it's more curated. So 220 00:11:41,679 --> 00:11:44,520 Speaker 8: it's a curated a selection that's on their website. So 221 00:11:44,960 --> 00:11:48,560 Speaker 8: although they have third party sellers, it's only items that 222 00:11:48,600 --> 00:11:50,960 Speaker 8: they think their consumers will want, versus kind of those 223 00:11:51,040 --> 00:11:54,160 Speaker 8: endless aisles that you expect from Amazon or even from Walmart. 224 00:11:54,880 --> 00:11:58,240 Speaker 8: And so by kind of keeping that that tailored environment, 225 00:11:58,679 --> 00:12:01,520 Speaker 8: it's easier for them to dish up results when people 226 00:12:01,559 --> 00:12:04,720 Speaker 8: are searching for things that are relevant to them. So 227 00:12:04,840 --> 00:12:09,120 Speaker 8: that has helped make targets e commerce platform pretty successful. 228 00:12:09,920 --> 00:12:11,839 Speaker 8: And the other thing that is a strength for them 229 00:12:11,880 --> 00:12:13,800 Speaker 8: is that a lot of those orders that they get 230 00:12:13,800 --> 00:12:17,640 Speaker 8: are fulfilled in stores. When they fulfill orders from stores, 231 00:12:17,679 --> 00:12:21,000 Speaker 8: it means that the product is actually closer to the customer, 232 00:12:21,200 --> 00:12:23,560 Speaker 8: which means it's cheaper to deliver it to the customer, 233 00:12:23,640 --> 00:12:26,960 Speaker 8: and that helps make the profitability of e commerce a 234 00:12:27,000 --> 00:12:30,400 Speaker 8: lot better. And so those are sort of the strengths 235 00:12:30,400 --> 00:12:33,840 Speaker 8: that Target has and I think that investors appreciate that 236 00:12:33,880 --> 00:12:37,360 Speaker 8: they're doing it. Their own way and not just trying 237 00:12:37,400 --> 00:12:40,920 Speaker 8: to chase any sale at the cost of the profitability 238 00:12:40,960 --> 00:12:41,520 Speaker 8: of the business. 239 00:12:41,760 --> 00:12:44,080 Speaker 1: Well a lot to look forward to. Second quarter earnings 240 00:12:44,080 --> 00:12:47,559 Speaker 1: from Target out this Wednesday are thanks to Jennifer bartashis 241 00:12:47,640 --> 00:12:51,959 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Intelligence Senior Analyst, Retail, Staples and packaged Food. Coming 242 00:12:52,000 --> 00:12:54,720 Speaker 1: up on Bloomberg day Break weekend, we'll dissect the UK's 243 00:12:54,960 --> 00:13:11,200 Speaker 1: immigration dilemma. I'm Tom Busby and this is Bloomberg. This 244 00:13:11,280 --> 00:13:13,600 Speaker 1: is Bloomberg Daybreak Weekend, our global look ahead at the 245 00:13:13,600 --> 00:13:16,200 Speaker 1: top stories for investors in the coming week. I'm Tom 246 00:13:16,240 --> 00:13:18,880 Speaker 1: Busby in New York. Up later on our program, we'll 247 00:13:18,920 --> 00:13:22,280 Speaker 1: look at vice presidential candidate Tim Waltz's relationship with China 248 00:13:22,559 --> 00:13:25,079 Speaker 1: as he prepares to take the stage at the Democratic 249 00:13:25,160 --> 00:13:28,840 Speaker 1: National Convention. But first, the UK still reeling from its 250 00:13:28,880 --> 00:13:32,880 Speaker 1: worst rioting in over a decade, fueled by anti immigrant sentiment. 251 00:13:33,200 --> 00:13:36,000 Speaker 1: As even more arrivals are expected, it's become a major 252 00:13:36,000 --> 00:13:39,320 Speaker 1: flashpoint for Prime Minister Keir Starmer's new government, which has 253 00:13:39,400 --> 00:13:42,080 Speaker 1: promised to limit the number of new entrants to the country. 254 00:13:42,120 --> 00:13:45,000 Speaker 1: For more, Let's go to London and bring in Bloomberg Daybreak. 255 00:13:45,000 --> 00:13:47,600 Speaker 1: Europe banker Caroline hepger Tom. 256 00:13:47,800 --> 00:13:50,840 Speaker 2: More than a thousand people have now been arrested following 257 00:13:50,880 --> 00:13:54,200 Speaker 2: several days of anti immigrant disorder across the UK at 258 00:13:54,200 --> 00:13:57,360 Speaker 2: the end of July and beginning of August. The rioting 259 00:13:57,480 --> 00:14:00,840 Speaker 2: was sparked by the fatal stabbings of three young girls 260 00:14:01,080 --> 00:14:05,120 Speaker 2: attending a Taylor Swift themed dance class in Southport, in 261 00:14:05,200 --> 00:14:07,760 Speaker 2: the northwest of England on the twenty ninth of July. 262 00:14:08,640 --> 00:14:13,240 Speaker 2: Misinformation about the attacker being a Muslim asylum seeker spread 263 00:14:13,320 --> 00:14:18,359 Speaker 2: swiftly online and encouraged by far right activists and protesters. 264 00:14:18,640 --> 00:14:23,520 Speaker 2: It resulted in days of anti immigration demonstrations that turned violent, 265 00:14:23,840 --> 00:14:29,080 Speaker 2: targeting the police, migrant support facilities and mosques. Prime Minister 266 00:14:29,160 --> 00:14:32,800 Speaker 2: Kirs Starmer has now placed an emphasis on speedy and 267 00:14:32,960 --> 00:14:36,840 Speaker 2: tough punishment in a bid to restore calm That seems 268 00:14:37,080 --> 00:14:40,240 Speaker 2: to have largely worked, but it remains to be seen 269 00:14:40,320 --> 00:14:43,800 Speaker 2: how his Labor Party will approach the issue of migration, 270 00:14:44,120 --> 00:14:48,320 Speaker 2: a political flashpoint over the last few years that successive 271 00:14:48,360 --> 00:14:52,920 Speaker 2: governments have been forced to reckon with Bloomberg's EMEA Equalities 272 00:14:53,080 --> 00:14:57,480 Speaker 2: editor Syrage Datu says that the recent disorder fueled by 273 00:14:57,520 --> 00:15:03,000 Speaker 2: that online misinformation lay is bare the scale of the challenge. 274 00:15:02,400 --> 00:15:06,960 Speaker 9: And very very quickly things online turned quite violent. And 275 00:15:07,000 --> 00:15:10,640 Speaker 9: so you had that misinformation right from the start that 276 00:15:10,760 --> 00:15:13,760 Speaker 9: largely at the beginning happened on X and then you 277 00:15:13,840 --> 00:15:20,000 Speaker 9: started having groups organizing on different platforms, places like Telegram, 278 00:15:20,080 --> 00:15:25,440 Speaker 9: places like discord where they're not necessarily available to their public. 279 00:15:26,320 --> 00:15:30,240 Speaker 9: You really had a very quick virality of this misinformation 280 00:15:30,760 --> 00:15:33,920 Speaker 9: that the key thing that happened in this time was 281 00:15:34,000 --> 00:15:36,840 Speaker 9: that it played on the fears that people have, and 282 00:15:36,960 --> 00:15:39,120 Speaker 9: very quickly y had that they're escalated into violence. 283 00:15:39,440 --> 00:15:41,160 Speaker 10: How much do you think that foreign states have been 284 00:15:41,400 --> 00:15:44,320 Speaker 10: interfering in this in this business, the. 285 00:15:44,320 --> 00:15:47,440 Speaker 9: Government is very much looking into the idea of foreign 286 00:15:47,480 --> 00:15:50,280 Speaker 9: interference and foreign involvement, and this is you know, this 287 00:15:50,360 --> 00:15:53,320 Speaker 9: is not necessarily new. We know that our style states 288 00:15:53,360 --> 00:15:57,240 Speaker 9: have been involved in missing and spreading sharing misinformation for 289 00:15:57,320 --> 00:15:59,680 Speaker 9: some time. But what I will say is I spoke 290 00:15:59,720 --> 00:16:03,840 Speaker 9: to a called Logically, a group that counters disinformation, and 291 00:16:03,880 --> 00:16:06,520 Speaker 9: they spoke to me about a group called Channel three now, 292 00:16:06,600 --> 00:16:08,720 Speaker 9: which is a fake news channel, and they were one 293 00:16:08,720 --> 00:16:11,680 Speaker 9: of the first accounts on x to share this fake name. 294 00:16:12,480 --> 00:16:15,600 Speaker 9: And it started out as a YouTube channel that was 295 00:16:15,640 --> 00:16:19,120 Speaker 9: sharing Russian home videos. It then made the shift to 296 00:16:19,400 --> 00:16:24,360 Speaker 9: Pakistani content. It went through a cycle of different branding, 297 00:16:24,560 --> 00:16:28,520 Speaker 9: different fake news organization names, and then now it's registered 298 00:16:28,560 --> 00:16:30,880 Speaker 9: in Lithuania. And what they said to me is it 299 00:16:31,000 --> 00:16:36,120 Speaker 9: mirrors the tactics of a Russian disinformation campaign. But then 300 00:16:36,240 --> 00:16:40,280 Speaker 9: cautioned and added, but the problem is that real people, 301 00:16:40,640 --> 00:16:43,840 Speaker 9: especially in their ways, people who are extremely online people 302 00:16:44,520 --> 00:16:47,880 Speaker 9: tend to post online in a way that mirrors bots. 303 00:16:48,000 --> 00:16:50,160 Speaker 9: That's why it's so hard to retell who's behind some 304 00:16:50,280 --> 00:16:50,480 Speaker 9: of this. 305 00:16:51,200 --> 00:16:54,240 Speaker 2: What about Elon Musk and his role you mentioned x 306 00:16:54,800 --> 00:16:59,040 Speaker 2: he has found the flames one can argue of extremism 307 00:16:59,120 --> 00:17:01,520 Speaker 2: in the UK. What's his involvement here? 308 00:17:03,320 --> 00:17:06,919 Speaker 9: This is a really interesting one. So obviously, even masked 309 00:17:07,000 --> 00:17:11,320 Speaker 9: the owner effects, he's made really provocative posts on his 310 00:17:11,359 --> 00:17:16,920 Speaker 9: own platform saying that civil war is inevitable. Henry Parker 311 00:17:16,960 --> 00:17:21,560 Speaker 9: from Logically told me that actually he's really going against 312 00:17:21,560 --> 00:17:24,560 Speaker 9: the terms and conditions off his own platform. This, you know, 313 00:17:24,600 --> 00:17:28,520 Speaker 9: this isn't really this sort of language isn't acceptable. But 314 00:17:28,560 --> 00:17:30,040 Speaker 9: of course he has the owners. I don't think they're 315 00:17:30,040 --> 00:17:33,119 Speaker 9: going to delete his account. But what we have seen recently, 316 00:17:33,160 --> 00:17:36,600 Speaker 9: people like Tommy Robinson whose real name is Stephen Yaxley Lennon, 317 00:17:37,200 --> 00:17:40,879 Speaker 9: who's been inspiring a lot of the protests in person, 318 00:17:40,960 --> 00:17:45,240 Speaker 9: but while he's been abroad reportedly in Cypress on holiday, 319 00:17:45,880 --> 00:17:47,920 Speaker 9: he wasn't allowed on Twitter. Just a few years ago 320 00:17:48,640 --> 00:17:51,520 Speaker 9: he was banned and he's been allowed back on x 321 00:17:52,040 --> 00:17:55,920 Speaker 9: so I think Mask's role has been twofold. It's not 322 00:17:56,040 --> 00:18:00,000 Speaker 9: just potentially, you know, getting into clashes with Prime Minie, 323 00:18:00,840 --> 00:18:03,320 Speaker 9: but also the way that he has led his company. 324 00:18:03,800 --> 00:18:06,600 Speaker 10: Something that you must posted about people being arrested for 325 00:18:06,680 --> 00:18:10,840 Speaker 10: social media posts, people being arrested on the Communications Act 326 00:18:10,920 --> 00:18:14,040 Speaker 10: for posting on social media. But this is a controversial error, 327 00:18:14,040 --> 00:18:16,840 Speaker 10: isn't it. Can the UK really police the Internet in 328 00:18:16,880 --> 00:18:17,280 Speaker 10: this way? 329 00:18:18,119 --> 00:18:20,919 Speaker 9: Yeah? Again, this is a of course it's going to 330 00:18:20,920 --> 00:18:23,719 Speaker 9: be controversial. I guess it comes down to the idea 331 00:18:23,880 --> 00:18:29,800 Speaker 9: that should incitement of hatred only apply in person or 332 00:18:29,880 --> 00:18:33,399 Speaker 9: should you be charged for incitement of hatred wherever it happens. 333 00:18:33,400 --> 00:18:36,800 Speaker 9: And obviously the Communications Act means that you know, and 334 00:18:36,840 --> 00:18:40,399 Speaker 9: the government decided that it should be so that it's 335 00:18:40,440 --> 00:18:42,679 Speaker 9: not necessarily it's not really new, something that's been happening 336 00:18:42,680 --> 00:18:46,479 Speaker 9: for quite a while, but obviously in situations like this, 337 00:18:46,600 --> 00:18:49,560 Speaker 9: where there are inflamed tensions where we do have violence. 338 00:18:50,160 --> 00:18:53,919 Speaker 9: Perhaps we're hearing about these charges being made more whereas 339 00:18:53,960 --> 00:18:56,560 Speaker 9: in normal circumstances it just happens behind the scenes. I 340 00:18:56,560 --> 00:18:58,679 Speaker 9: should terrify you know that the people who have been 341 00:18:58,760 --> 00:19:01,960 Speaker 9: charged on this, who have been saying things like go 342 00:19:02,000 --> 00:19:05,360 Speaker 9: and burn hotels that have asylums because in them it's 343 00:19:05,400 --> 00:19:08,960 Speaker 9: not language that is it's not tempered language. Obviously you 344 00:19:08,960 --> 00:19:11,919 Speaker 9: know that it is quite a violent language. 345 00:19:12,200 --> 00:19:15,639 Speaker 2: That was Sirage Datu speaking to me on the Bloomberg 346 00:19:15,720 --> 00:19:21,120 Speaker 2: UK Politics program. Well aside from questions about social integration, 347 00:19:21,400 --> 00:19:26,159 Speaker 2: immigration is also heavily tied to the UK's economic performance. 348 00:19:26,640 --> 00:19:29,720 Speaker 2: Just last month, the Confederation for British Industry, the main 349 00:19:29,840 --> 00:19:34,600 Speaker 2: business lobby here, one that curves on migration could hinder 350 00:19:34,640 --> 00:19:39,160 Speaker 2: the country's economic outlook. So what will the government's approach 351 00:19:39,359 --> 00:19:42,800 Speaker 2: be to this issue. Kirs Starmer has talked about wanting 352 00:19:42,880 --> 00:19:46,520 Speaker 2: to quote smash the gangs, quite similar really to Rishi 353 00:19:46,600 --> 00:19:50,520 Speaker 2: Sunac's stop the boat's message when it comes to people 354 00:19:50,720 --> 00:19:54,560 Speaker 2: who are coming illegally to Britain. But the new government 355 00:19:54,600 --> 00:19:58,720 Speaker 2: has yet to settle on its overall migration policy. Since 356 00:19:58,760 --> 00:20:03,080 Speaker 2: the landslide elect victory of July. Join me now to 357 00:20:03,160 --> 00:20:06,760 Speaker 2: discuss this in greater depth is Bloomberg's UK economics reporter 358 00:20:07,080 --> 00:20:11,240 Speaker 2: Lucy White, Lucy Fogods, have you on the program. There 359 00:20:11,280 --> 00:20:16,400 Speaker 2: are various different kinds of migration statistics and that can 360 00:20:16,480 --> 00:20:18,439 Speaker 2: get a lot of people into a lot of trouble 361 00:20:18,560 --> 00:20:22,440 Speaker 2: very quickly. What do you think though, that the migration 362 00:20:22,680 --> 00:20:26,159 Speaker 2: numbers overall are looking like for the UK and the 363 00:20:26,240 --> 00:20:27,800 Speaker 2: debate in Britain at the moment. 364 00:20:28,400 --> 00:20:30,960 Speaker 11: So we had the last time we had migration data 365 00:20:30,960 --> 00:20:33,439 Speaker 11: out that was from the Office for National Statistics, a 366 00:20:33,480 --> 00:20:37,200 Speaker 11: big set of migration data, and that was around long 367 00:20:37,320 --> 00:20:41,480 Speaker 11: term migration to the UK, and that showed migration falling 368 00:20:41,720 --> 00:20:44,800 Speaker 11: to six hundred and eighty five thousand net migration, so 369 00:20:44,920 --> 00:20:48,080 Speaker 11: that the total number of people coming in compared to 370 00:20:48,119 --> 00:20:50,600 Speaker 11: those going out falling to six hundred and eighty five 371 00:20:50,640 --> 00:20:53,359 Speaker 11: thousand in twenty twenty three from seven hundred and sixty 372 00:20:53,400 --> 00:20:56,399 Speaker 11: four thousand a year earlier. That's obviously quite a big drop, 373 00:20:56,720 --> 00:21:00,040 Speaker 11: but it's still showing migration at very high levels and 374 00:21:00,600 --> 00:21:03,400 Speaker 11: away off the tens of thousands that David Cameron spoke 375 00:21:03,400 --> 00:21:05,199 Speaker 11: about when he was trying to get elected back in 376 00:21:05,200 --> 00:21:09,400 Speaker 11: twenty ten. Brexit has changed the type of migration coming 377 00:21:09,480 --> 00:21:12,000 Speaker 11: into the UK. So before we tended to have a 378 00:21:12,000 --> 00:21:14,879 Speaker 11: lot of European migrants coming to the UK, many of 379 00:21:14,880 --> 00:21:17,520 Speaker 11: whom would fill you know, kind of more casual roles 380 00:21:17,560 --> 00:21:21,240 Speaker 11: bar work and you know, hospitality as well as other roles. 381 00:21:21,840 --> 00:21:24,680 Speaker 11: But while there's a huge focus on the small boats elements, 382 00:21:24,680 --> 00:21:28,240 Speaker 11: as you just mentioned, they only constitute a tiny proportion 383 00:21:28,440 --> 00:21:31,520 Speaker 11: of the people coming in to the UK. The vast 384 00:21:31,520 --> 00:21:33,720 Speaker 11: majority of people who are now coming into the UK 385 00:21:33,960 --> 00:21:38,000 Speaker 11: are through government approved routes, So that's work visas, that's 386 00:21:38,920 --> 00:21:42,080 Speaker 11: through humanitarian routes, although that is falling off now. So 387 00:21:42,240 --> 00:21:44,239 Speaker 11: that was such as you know, the people coming in 388 00:21:44,400 --> 00:21:47,920 Speaker 11: due to conflict in Ukraine and conflict in Hong Kong. 389 00:21:48,840 --> 00:21:52,840 Speaker 2: So what does the relationship then look like between immigration 390 00:21:53,160 --> 00:21:55,680 Speaker 2: and economic performance in the UK. 391 00:21:56,040 --> 00:21:58,399 Speaker 11: I mean, there's varying takes on this, depending on whose 392 00:21:58,440 --> 00:22:01,320 Speaker 11: research you look at, and what data they are looking at, 393 00:22:01,840 --> 00:22:04,920 Speaker 11: how they interpret it, what other factors they're taking into account. 394 00:22:05,320 --> 00:22:05,840 Speaker 12: But it is. 395 00:22:05,840 --> 00:22:12,000 Speaker 11: Widely accepted that migration does generally boost productivity in developed countries, 396 00:22:12,040 --> 00:22:15,480 Speaker 11: so the value of work done per hour. Essentially it 397 00:22:15,520 --> 00:22:20,600 Speaker 11: gives employers more choice over who they employ. You know, 398 00:22:20,600 --> 00:22:22,800 Speaker 11: you've got you've got a bigger labor pool to look at, 399 00:22:22,880 --> 00:22:25,840 Speaker 11: so you can you can pick and choose a little more. 400 00:22:26,640 --> 00:22:29,320 Speaker 11: There is some worry that among some people, and you know, 401 00:22:29,359 --> 00:22:32,920 Speaker 11: this is possibly what we saw inflaming some of those 402 00:22:33,000 --> 00:22:36,280 Speaker 11: riots that you were talking about earlier, that this can 403 00:22:36,400 --> 00:22:40,719 Speaker 11: lead to fewer job opportunities for people in the country 404 00:22:40,760 --> 00:22:44,280 Speaker 11: and lower wages for people in the country. But according 405 00:22:44,280 --> 00:22:47,560 Speaker 11: to the government's Migration Advisory Committee, who've looked at a 406 00:22:47,560 --> 00:22:50,840 Speaker 11: lot of evidence on this historically, there's actually been very 407 00:22:51,000 --> 00:22:55,160 Speaker 11: little evidence that migration does have a huge impact on wages. 408 00:22:56,200 --> 00:22:57,720 Speaker 2: So what do you think it means then, for this 409 00:22:57,920 --> 00:23:00,560 Speaker 2: still quite new Prime minister, I mean only about six 410 00:23:00,600 --> 00:23:03,879 Speaker 2: weeks into his term of office, Kirs Starmer. I mean 411 00:23:03,880 --> 00:23:06,160 Speaker 2: he's got to balance then the warnings that I mentioned 412 00:23:06,200 --> 00:23:10,520 Speaker 2: from the CBI about curbs on migration hurting or stunting 413 00:23:10,560 --> 00:23:14,680 Speaker 2: economic growth and then at the same time public services 414 00:23:14,960 --> 00:23:16,320 Speaker 2: being very very stretched. 415 00:23:16,440 --> 00:23:18,639 Speaker 11: I think Britain does have to face a reckoning at 416 00:23:18,640 --> 00:23:20,320 Speaker 11: the moment. I mean, the truth is that we are 417 00:23:20,400 --> 00:23:23,640 Speaker 11: hugely reliant on migrant workers in many sectors. I mean 418 00:23:23,960 --> 00:23:26,879 Speaker 11: I spoke about the increase in the number of people 419 00:23:26,880 --> 00:23:29,320 Speaker 11: coming for work. A huge number of those are coming 420 00:23:29,359 --> 00:23:33,520 Speaker 11: on health and social care visas. These tend to be 421 00:23:33,600 --> 00:23:36,560 Speaker 11: lower wages, lower paid jobs, you know, in the care sector, 422 00:23:37,240 --> 00:23:41,480 Speaker 11: and we are hugely reliant on these people. If we're 423 00:23:41,480 --> 00:23:45,920 Speaker 11: to raise wages and you know, encourage more British workers 424 00:23:45,960 --> 00:23:48,080 Speaker 11: to work in this sector, that's going to take a 425 00:23:48,160 --> 00:23:52,200 Speaker 11: huge amount of public funding and possibly a whole rejig 426 00:23:52,240 --> 00:23:55,920 Speaker 11: of the social care system. So, I mean, Kirs Darma 427 00:23:55,960 --> 00:23:59,080 Speaker 11: really does have a balancing act here. And I obviously 428 00:23:59,280 --> 00:24:04,080 Speaker 11: migration does pose worries about pressure on public services. You know, 429 00:24:04,119 --> 00:24:07,120 Speaker 11: there are more people who'll be wanting houses, more people 430 00:24:07,200 --> 00:24:11,280 Speaker 11: who'll be wanting to use education, to use hospitals. But 431 00:24:11,520 --> 00:24:13,600 Speaker 11: at the same time, you know, we do have to 432 00:24:13,640 --> 00:24:17,159 Speaker 11: remember that migrants do also you know, kind of add 433 00:24:17,200 --> 00:24:20,520 Speaker 11: to the demand in the economy, so will also be 434 00:24:20,640 --> 00:24:23,159 Speaker 11: you know, kind of paying their taxes as well. So 435 00:24:23,640 --> 00:24:25,760 Speaker 11: we do have to balance at the end of the day, 436 00:24:26,320 --> 00:24:30,240 Speaker 11: whether we can afford to be less reliant on migrants. 437 00:24:30,280 --> 00:24:34,520 Speaker 2: I suppose yeah, Well, especially with an aging population within 438 00:24:34,600 --> 00:24:37,360 Speaker 2: the UK. I mean, the other big theme has been 439 00:24:37,440 --> 00:24:40,720 Speaker 2: about kind of talent UK universities could be at risk 440 00:24:41,280 --> 00:24:45,399 Speaker 2: from have been at risk from immigration and crackdowns that 441 00:24:45,560 --> 00:24:49,040 Speaker 2: then deter foreign students. You know, that's long been the 442 00:24:49,119 --> 00:24:52,879 Speaker 2: kind of golden goose for universities and colleges in the UK, 443 00:24:53,320 --> 00:24:56,119 Speaker 2: you know, for an advanced economy like ohs tell us 444 00:24:56,119 --> 00:24:56,600 Speaker 2: about that. 445 00:24:56,800 --> 00:24:59,360 Speaker 11: Yeah, I mean, I've heard a lot of concerns from 446 00:24:59,440 --> 00:25:03,480 Speaker 11: academics in universities. They are becoming more and more reliant 447 00:25:03,480 --> 00:25:05,840 Speaker 11: as we've seen you know, kind of pressures on domestic 448 00:25:05,920 --> 00:25:09,160 Speaker 11: funding for universities. They are becoming more and more reliant 449 00:25:09,320 --> 00:25:14,360 Speaker 11: on the international students who are paying higher fees. And 450 00:25:14,880 --> 00:25:17,840 Speaker 11: we're seeing a huge reduction in the number of students 451 00:25:17,880 --> 00:25:20,359 Speaker 11: who are coming to use UK universities at the moment, 452 00:25:20,440 --> 00:25:24,800 Speaker 11: since the government imposed a ban on most students bring 453 00:25:24,960 --> 00:25:28,359 Speaker 11: their dependence into the country. That has for some people 454 00:25:28,400 --> 00:25:30,919 Speaker 11: made it less attractive to come to a UK university 455 00:25:31,359 --> 00:25:34,680 Speaker 11: when you're comparing that with you know, very good institutions 456 00:25:34,480 --> 00:25:37,360 Speaker 11: in Europe, in the US where they might otherwise go. 457 00:25:37,880 --> 00:25:40,159 Speaker 11: So there is a lot of concern within universities that 458 00:25:40,320 --> 00:25:43,160 Speaker 11: on a global stage, we are becoming less competitive. 459 00:25:43,280 --> 00:25:47,280 Speaker 2: It remains a potent topic, a huge you know, economic 460 00:25:47,800 --> 00:25:50,520 Speaker 2: issue for Britain. As well many thanks to Bloomberg's UK 461 00:25:50,680 --> 00:25:54,119 Speaker 2: economics reporter Lucy White. I'm Caroline Hepge here in London. 462 00:25:54,359 --> 00:25:57,280 Speaker 2: You can catch us every weekday morning for Bloomberg Daybreak. 463 00:25:57,320 --> 00:25:59,840 Speaker 2: You up beginning at six am in London. That's one. 464 00:26:00,000 --> 00:26:01,399 Speaker 2: I am on Wall Street, Tom. 465 00:26:01,760 --> 00:26:04,679 Speaker 1: Thank you, Caroline. And coming up on Bloomberg day Break Weekend, 466 00:26:04,720 --> 00:26:08,280 Speaker 1: we'll look at Democratic vice presidential candidate Tim Waltz's relationship 467 00:26:08,640 --> 00:26:22,879 Speaker 1: with China. I'm Tom Busby and this is Bloomberg. This 468 00:26:22,920 --> 00:26:25,280 Speaker 1: is Bloomberg day Break Weekend, our global look ahead at 469 00:26:25,280 --> 00:26:27,880 Speaker 1: the top stories for investors in the coming week. I'm 470 00:26:27,920 --> 00:26:31,160 Speaker 1: Tom Busby in New York. The Democratic National Convention will 471 00:26:31,160 --> 00:26:34,960 Speaker 1: take place in the week ahead. Democrats rallying around Kamala 472 00:26:34,960 --> 00:26:37,680 Speaker 1: Harris and her running mate, Governor Tim Walts of Minnesota, 473 00:26:37,840 --> 00:26:41,080 Speaker 1: who has a long history with China. Let's look now 474 00:26:41,119 --> 00:26:44,440 Speaker 1: at how that relationship might play out during the campaign. 475 00:26:44,720 --> 00:26:47,600 Speaker 1: Here's Bloomberg Daybreak Asia co host Doug Krisner. 476 00:26:48,040 --> 00:26:52,720 Speaker 3: Tom. This connection goes back decades. Walls taught English in Foshan, China, 477 00:26:52,760 --> 00:26:55,600 Speaker 3: in nineteen eighty nine and nineteen ninety. That city is 478 00:26:55,680 --> 00:26:59,240 Speaker 3: in the southern Guangdong province and Walts was in China 479 00:26:59,280 --> 00:27:02,600 Speaker 3: after the Ken Men's Square massacre in nineteen eighty nine. 480 00:27:02,680 --> 00:27:05,280 Speaker 3: You know, he is the first person on a presidential 481 00:27:05,320 --> 00:27:09,800 Speaker 3: ticket with experience of living in China since George H. W. Bush, 482 00:27:09,840 --> 00:27:12,719 Speaker 3: who served as US ambassador to Beijing in the nineteen 483 00:27:12,760 --> 00:27:16,520 Speaker 3: seventies and as a Minnesota congressman in two thousand and seven. 484 00:27:16,960 --> 00:27:19,920 Speaker 3: Walls aligned with politicians on both sides of the aisle 485 00:27:20,119 --> 00:27:23,840 Speaker 3: focused on China's weak human rights record. He often spoke 486 00:27:23,880 --> 00:27:27,000 Speaker 3: affectionately about the Chinese people. As a member of the 487 00:27:27,000 --> 00:27:32,280 Speaker 3: House Agriculture Committee, Walls was interviewed for Agripol's Communications in 488 00:27:32,359 --> 00:27:33,200 Speaker 3: twenty sixteen. 489 00:27:33,640 --> 00:27:36,040 Speaker 13: I lived in China, and as I said, I've been 490 00:27:36,040 --> 00:27:38,800 Speaker 13: there about thirty times. But if someone tells you and 491 00:27:38,840 --> 00:27:40,879 Speaker 13: they're an expert on China, they're probably not telling you 492 00:27:40,920 --> 00:27:43,680 Speaker 13: the truth because it's complex country, but it's critically important 493 00:27:43,680 --> 00:27:46,200 Speaker 13: for us. I don't fall into the category that China 494 00:27:46,280 --> 00:27:49,800 Speaker 13: necessarily needs to be an adversarial relationship. I totally disagree, 495 00:27:49,800 --> 00:27:51,320 Speaker 13: and I think we need to stand firm on what 496 00:27:51,320 --> 00:27:53,600 Speaker 13: they're doing in the South China Sea, but there's many 497 00:27:53,680 --> 00:27:57,000 Speaker 13: areas of cooperation that we can work on. 498 00:27:57,200 --> 00:28:00,280 Speaker 3: That's Tim Walls speaking in twenty sixteen, and after he 499 00:28:00,320 --> 00:28:03,359 Speaker 3: returned from China in nineteen ninety, he described the Chinese 500 00:28:03,400 --> 00:28:06,920 Speaker 3: people to a local newspaper in Nebraska. He said, if 501 00:28:06,960 --> 00:28:10,119 Speaker 3: they had proper leadership, there are no limits on what 502 00:28:10,200 --> 00:28:12,600 Speaker 3: they could accomplish. He went on to say, they are 503 00:28:12,640 --> 00:28:16,880 Speaker 3: such a kind, generous, capable people. I got reaction earlier 504 00:28:17,000 --> 00:28:20,160 Speaker 3: from Michael Sobolik, he is senior fellow at the American 505 00:28:20,200 --> 00:28:21,359 Speaker 3: Foreign Policy Council. 506 00:28:21,800 --> 00:28:25,040 Speaker 7: Governor Walls tapped into something that is still true today 507 00:28:25,080 --> 00:28:28,760 Speaker 7: in twenty twenty four, which is, the Chinese people are 508 00:28:28,800 --> 00:28:31,480 Speaker 7: not the enemies of the American people at all, nor 509 00:28:31,560 --> 00:28:35,040 Speaker 7: should they be. I've been to China as well, and 510 00:28:35,119 --> 00:28:40,920 Speaker 7: I've experienced that same hospitality and generosity that Walls experienced 511 00:28:40,920 --> 00:28:43,520 Speaker 7: when he was there too, and I think many Americans 512 00:28:43,560 --> 00:28:46,640 Speaker 7: would attest to the same thing. The problem for Washington 513 00:28:46,720 --> 00:28:50,640 Speaker 7: policymakers is not the Chinese people, it's the Chinese Communist Party. 514 00:28:51,000 --> 00:28:54,280 Speaker 7: And that distinction is quite meaningful, and I am gratified 515 00:28:54,320 --> 00:28:57,160 Speaker 7: greatly that Governor Walls recognizes that difference. 516 00:28:57,280 --> 00:29:00,360 Speaker 3: That's an important distinction to make. But in terms of 517 00:29:00,440 --> 00:29:04,200 Speaker 3: influencing policy, imagine a world where Kamala Harris is the 518 00:29:04,240 --> 00:29:07,320 Speaker 3: next president. Is it the role of the vice president 519 00:29:07,360 --> 00:29:10,200 Speaker 3: at all to kind of get involved with setting the agenda? 520 00:29:10,360 --> 00:29:13,400 Speaker 7: So that's going to vary from administration to administration to 521 00:29:13,520 --> 00:29:15,920 Speaker 7: be sure, but ultimately, if she wins, she is going 522 00:29:16,000 --> 00:29:19,360 Speaker 7: to face this million dollar question in American foreign policy? 523 00:29:20,040 --> 00:29:23,800 Speaker 7: Is China the Chinese Communist Party a potential competitor or 524 00:29:23,800 --> 00:29:27,920 Speaker 7: an adversary? And Hijinping, the leader of China, is not 525 00:29:28,000 --> 00:29:30,920 Speaker 7: really leaving America with much of a choice. We're going 526 00:29:31,000 --> 00:29:32,280 Speaker 7: to have to choose one or the other. 527 00:29:32,480 --> 00:29:35,480 Speaker 3: How do you imagine Beijing would react to this type 528 00:29:35,480 --> 00:29:39,920 Speaker 3: of situation where you have someone in the administration who 529 00:29:39,960 --> 00:29:42,200 Speaker 3: knows so much about China. 530 00:29:42,240 --> 00:29:45,840 Speaker 12: I think they'll probably try to play this much like 531 00:29:45,960 --> 00:29:50,160 Speaker 12: they have attempted to work with President Joe Biden and 532 00:29:50,400 --> 00:29:52,760 Speaker 12: what not, just she at the most highest levels. 533 00:29:52,760 --> 00:29:56,240 Speaker 7: But what Chinese diplomats will often do is try to 534 00:29:56,320 --> 00:30:01,000 Speaker 7: fall back on mutual feelings of friendship and cooperation and 535 00:30:01,040 --> 00:30:05,840 Speaker 7: shared cultural experiences to try to get American politicians to 536 00:30:05,960 --> 00:30:09,720 Speaker 7: give a little bit on the competitive agenda. I am 537 00:30:09,880 --> 00:30:11,760 Speaker 7: certain they will try to do the same thing with 538 00:30:11,880 --> 00:30:15,040 Speaker 7: Walls if he assumes the Vice Presidency. In fact, as 539 00:30:15,120 --> 00:30:18,960 Speaker 7: governor of Minnesota, he's already received some of those diplomatic overtures. 540 00:30:19,360 --> 00:30:21,960 Speaker 3: How do you think he's going to frame the conversation 541 00:30:22,080 --> 00:30:24,040 Speaker 3: around the South China Sea. 542 00:30:24,080 --> 00:30:27,160 Speaker 7: So he's on record as a member of Congress saying 543 00:30:27,560 --> 00:30:30,720 Speaker 7: that the United States needs to stand up to China 544 00:30:30,760 --> 00:30:33,600 Speaker 7: and call out their illegal territorial claims in the South 545 00:30:33,680 --> 00:30:37,000 Speaker 7: China see And listen, that's great. We need to hold 546 00:30:37,320 --> 00:30:41,280 Speaker 7: the Chinese Communist Party accountable for their illegal actions with 547 00:30:41,320 --> 00:30:43,880 Speaker 7: our rhetoric, but we are at a point in our 548 00:30:43,920 --> 00:30:47,719 Speaker 7: security situation where we need to move beyond words. We 549 00:30:47,840 --> 00:30:52,360 Speaker 7: need to start making the Chinese Communist Party pay for 550 00:30:52,600 --> 00:30:55,719 Speaker 7: endangering the security of our allies and our partners and 551 00:30:55,760 --> 00:30:59,000 Speaker 7: frankly American interests in the South China see. And this 552 00:30:59,080 --> 00:31:00,880 Speaker 7: is the big question with Governor Wallas. 553 00:31:01,160 --> 00:31:01,720 Speaker 12: He has a. 554 00:31:01,640 --> 00:31:05,480 Speaker 7: Strong rhetorical record on human rights with China, but he hasn't, 555 00:31:05,600 --> 00:31:08,080 Speaker 7: in the position of a representative, really been in a 556 00:31:08,160 --> 00:31:12,560 Speaker 7: position to make those hard executive level decisions on how 557 00:31:12,560 --> 00:31:14,600 Speaker 7: do you assess those tradeoffs, because if you want to 558 00:31:14,600 --> 00:31:17,520 Speaker 7: hold them accountable, you're probably going to have to give 559 00:31:17,560 --> 00:31:21,360 Speaker 7: a bit on the cooperative agenda with Beijing, and it's 560 00:31:21,600 --> 00:31:24,520 Speaker 7: really unclear how he's going to make that calculation if 561 00:31:24,680 --> 00:31:25,560 Speaker 7: he wins the selection. 562 00:31:25,680 --> 00:31:28,640 Speaker 3: With Kamala Harris, he is Michael Soberlik, Senior Fellow at 563 00:31:28,680 --> 00:31:32,040 Speaker 3: the American Foreign Policy Council. Joining me now for some 564 00:31:32,120 --> 00:31:36,280 Speaker 3: discussion is Nick Waddams. He is Bloomberg US National Security 565 00:31:36,320 --> 00:31:39,800 Speaker 3: Team leader. Nick is based in Washington, d C. Thanks 566 00:31:39,800 --> 00:31:41,640 Speaker 3: for making time to chat with us, Nick, So I 567 00:31:41,720 --> 00:31:44,280 Speaker 3: laid out a bit of the Walls backstory as it 568 00:31:44,320 --> 00:31:46,760 Speaker 3: relates to China. Is there anything that you would like 569 00:31:46,800 --> 00:31:47,920 Speaker 3: to add for context? 570 00:31:48,200 --> 00:31:53,200 Speaker 5: A couple interesting things there. One, it is notable, amid 571 00:31:53,280 --> 00:31:57,280 Speaker 5: all the questions about Tim Walls's attitude towards China, he 572 00:31:57,320 --> 00:32:02,280 Speaker 5: got married on the anniversary of the Tieneman Square crackdown 573 00:32:02,920 --> 00:32:06,600 Speaker 5: because he said he wanted to have a memorable anniversary date. 574 00:32:06,680 --> 00:32:10,080 Speaker 5: But also I think that was meant as a sort 575 00:32:10,120 --> 00:32:14,440 Speaker 5: of signal for himself that he did really side with 576 00:32:14,480 --> 00:32:17,800 Speaker 5: the Chinese people and he really believes quite strongly in 577 00:32:17,880 --> 00:32:20,960 Speaker 5: human rights. The other thing to point out is that 578 00:32:21,920 --> 00:32:24,680 Speaker 5: we have heard a fair amount from Tim Walls, but 579 00:32:25,040 --> 00:32:30,840 Speaker 5: only as you indicated, from around twenty sixteen, that's eight 580 00:32:30,920 --> 00:32:34,920 Speaker 5: years ago, and in the time. Since then, both parties, 581 00:32:35,600 --> 00:32:40,120 Speaker 5: Democrats as much as Republicans, have really undergone this fundamental 582 00:32:40,680 --> 00:32:45,400 Speaker 5: shift in how they view China. Generally, the policy is 583 00:32:46,000 --> 00:32:50,320 Speaker 5: much more adversarial, and Democrats as well as Republicans have 584 00:32:50,400 --> 00:32:53,840 Speaker 5: really shed this idea that it is possible to have 585 00:32:54,520 --> 00:32:59,040 Speaker 5: a really strong cooperative relationship with China. And in twenty 586 00:32:59,080 --> 00:33:02,480 Speaker 5: sixteen you really did see still some of the sort 587 00:33:02,520 --> 00:33:05,640 Speaker 5: of vestigial belief that it wasn't quite clear where Shi 588 00:33:05,720 --> 00:33:08,840 Speaker 5: Jinping was going with China and that it would be 589 00:33:08,920 --> 00:33:12,080 Speaker 5: possible to have a relationship. I mean, I remember living 590 00:33:12,120 --> 00:33:16,120 Speaker 5: in China for five years myself, seeing John Kerry and 591 00:33:16,200 --> 00:33:19,280 Speaker 5: Hillary Clinton go to Beijing, and the line they often 592 00:33:19,360 --> 00:33:21,600 Speaker 5: repeated was, you know, there's room enough in the world 593 00:33:21,640 --> 00:33:25,720 Speaker 5: for an established power and a rising power, saying essentially 594 00:33:25,760 --> 00:33:28,960 Speaker 5: there was room for China and the US, and that 595 00:33:29,160 --> 00:33:33,200 Speaker 5: is an idea that's very definitively been put aside. 596 00:33:33,280 --> 00:33:37,120 Speaker 3: What do we know about GOP criticism of Walls, his 597 00:33:37,120 --> 00:33:40,960 Speaker 3: history in China, and particularly in the context of being 598 00:33:40,960 --> 00:33:42,040 Speaker 3: on the Democratic ticket. 599 00:33:42,080 --> 00:33:44,440 Speaker 5: I think what you're going to see here is an 600 00:33:44,480 --> 00:33:48,479 Speaker 5: attack line from Republicans, whether or not it's true. You know, 601 00:33:48,520 --> 00:33:51,480 Speaker 5: we still have not heard a really definitive account from 602 00:33:51,520 --> 00:33:55,080 Speaker 5: Tim Walls lately, though I think it's safe to assume 603 00:33:55,800 --> 00:33:59,000 Speaker 5: that his thinking now is very much in line with 604 00:33:59,240 --> 00:34:02,080 Speaker 5: what Kamalah Grris' thinking is, which is also going to 605 00:34:02,120 --> 00:34:04,640 Speaker 5: be very much in line with what Joe Biden's thinking is, 606 00:34:04,680 --> 00:34:07,760 Speaker 5: which in some ways has been even more extreme in 607 00:34:08,280 --> 00:34:11,840 Speaker 5: the desire to sanction and punish and impose terrorists on 608 00:34:11,920 --> 00:34:15,479 Speaker 5: China than even Donald Trump was. So this is really 609 00:34:15,520 --> 00:34:19,360 Speaker 5: a situation where the two parties are in a race 610 00:34:19,680 --> 00:34:23,080 Speaker 5: to the extreme end of the spectrum to beat up 611 00:34:23,120 --> 00:34:27,440 Speaker 5: on China. I mean, there is just no political advantage 612 00:34:28,040 --> 00:34:31,759 Speaker 5: either side sees and suggesting even the little bit of 613 00:34:32,000 --> 00:34:36,000 Speaker 5: sort of softness towards China. So I think you have 614 00:34:36,120 --> 00:34:40,680 Speaker 5: already seen and will see Republicans raise the specter of 615 00:34:41,320 --> 00:34:47,040 Speaker 5: potential softness or sympathy towards China from Tim Walls based 616 00:34:47,080 --> 00:34:49,839 Speaker 5: on the fact that he lived there thirty years ago 617 00:34:50,000 --> 00:34:53,919 Speaker 5: or so. But we are still waiting to hear from him, 618 00:34:54,280 --> 00:34:57,600 Speaker 5: and I think he has already given an indication given 619 00:34:57,640 --> 00:35:02,080 Speaker 5: his strong support for human rights that and given the 620 00:35:02,120 --> 00:35:05,080 Speaker 5: pressure he'll also face within his own party that there's 621 00:35:05,120 --> 00:35:08,160 Speaker 5: not going to be much daylight between him and the 622 00:35:08,200 --> 00:35:11,280 Speaker 5: current position from the Biden administration on China. 623 00:35:11,400 --> 00:35:12,960 Speaker 3: One of the other things that I think of when 624 00:35:12,960 --> 00:35:17,080 Speaker 3: I think about current policy is the export controls for 625 00:35:17,280 --> 00:35:21,239 Speaker 3: the most advanced semiconductor technology that the Biden administration has 626 00:35:21,320 --> 00:35:25,440 Speaker 3: placed on Beijing, and from the China side, the view 627 00:35:25,719 --> 00:35:29,680 Speaker 3: that these export controls are essentially aimed at holding China's 628 00:35:29,719 --> 00:35:34,319 Speaker 3: economic development back. Is there anything that you feel could 629 00:35:34,440 --> 00:35:37,840 Speaker 3: change under a Harris Walls administration or not? 630 00:35:38,440 --> 00:35:41,759 Speaker 5: Well, it's very interesting, you know, the question may not 631 00:35:41,880 --> 00:35:44,200 Speaker 5: necessarily be Tim Wallas. It may be some of the 632 00:35:44,239 --> 00:35:47,799 Speaker 5: other national security folks around her. One in particular is 633 00:35:47,800 --> 00:35:52,000 Speaker 5: a guy named Philip Gordon, who is essentially Kamala Harris's 634 00:35:52,080 --> 00:35:55,560 Speaker 5: top national security advisor. He was the signatory of a 635 00:35:55,640 --> 00:35:59,759 Speaker 5: letter during the Trump administration, one of these letters that 636 00:35:59,800 --> 00:36:03,760 Speaker 5: get circulated and signed by former ambassadors and national security 637 00:36:03,800 --> 00:36:08,120 Speaker 5: people saying hey, listen, yes, we need to compete with China, 638 00:36:08,480 --> 00:36:11,520 Speaker 5: we need to protect our interests, make sure that they 639 00:36:11,560 --> 00:36:16,239 Speaker 5: don't steal our intellectual property, but essentially saying this tit 640 00:36:16,360 --> 00:36:20,239 Speaker 5: for tat the rising rhetoric, the belief of China as 641 00:36:20,280 --> 00:36:24,040 Speaker 5: an enemy is really a race to the bottom. Things 642 00:36:24,040 --> 00:36:26,719 Speaker 5: have moved on even since that letter, and you have, 643 00:36:27,160 --> 00:36:30,480 Speaker 5: as you say, seen the Biden administration really hit China 644 00:36:30,600 --> 00:36:35,160 Speaker 5: with more and more severe export controls and essentially adopted 645 00:36:35,200 --> 00:36:37,480 Speaker 5: a policy where they say, Okay, we're not even going 646 00:36:37,560 --> 00:36:40,600 Speaker 5: to let you get your hands on some of the 647 00:36:40,600 --> 00:36:45,359 Speaker 5: most significant technology, particularly around microshifts. They see that as 648 00:36:45,480 --> 00:36:49,239 Speaker 5: so grave a national security threat that they're going to 649 00:36:49,320 --> 00:36:52,160 Speaker 5: do everything they can to make sure that China can't 650 00:36:52,160 --> 00:36:56,919 Speaker 5: get that technology. And that just sets up this fundamentally 651 00:36:56,960 --> 00:37:00,720 Speaker 5: oppositional relationship that China is not going to be willing 652 00:37:00,760 --> 00:37:04,279 Speaker 5: to see past if there are people within the administration 653 00:37:04,360 --> 00:37:07,440 Speaker 5: who say they want cooperation on things like fentanyl. 654 00:37:07,920 --> 00:37:11,839 Speaker 3: For example, in my conversation we heard a segment of 655 00:37:11,880 --> 00:37:15,319 Speaker 3: with Michael Sobolik from the American Foreign Policy Council. I 656 00:37:15,400 --> 00:37:19,200 Speaker 3: ask him how he might imagine Beijing reacting to a 657 00:37:19,239 --> 00:37:23,600 Speaker 3: situation where you have someone inside an administration who has 658 00:37:23,680 --> 00:37:27,560 Speaker 3: such familiarity with China culturally. Do you have a sense 659 00:37:27,640 --> 00:37:31,360 Speaker 3: of what it may mean for Beijing to have walls 660 00:37:31,400 --> 00:37:32,440 Speaker 3: in an administration. 661 00:37:33,040 --> 00:37:36,960 Speaker 5: Well, at the moment, they're very much keeping in the background. 662 00:37:37,000 --> 00:37:40,560 Speaker 5: This is not something where China, the Communist Party, the 663 00:37:40,600 --> 00:37:44,239 Speaker 5: current leadership want to interject themselves. I mean, particularly with 664 00:37:44,440 --> 00:37:48,440 Speaker 5: all of the talk around foreign interference in the elections 665 00:37:48,480 --> 00:37:51,080 Speaker 5: in twenty sixteen, then twenty twenty then now, this is 666 00:37:51,160 --> 00:37:55,760 Speaker 5: not something where China wants to publicly take a side, 667 00:37:55,880 --> 00:37:59,279 Speaker 5: so they have not really said anything publicly. I think 668 00:37:59,280 --> 00:38:01,200 Speaker 5: there are a couple in interesting things because on the 669 00:38:01,239 --> 00:38:03,480 Speaker 5: one hand, yes, they can say, Okay, this is a 670 00:38:03,520 --> 00:38:07,799 Speaker 5: person who ostensibly could be a better ally or a 671 00:38:07,800 --> 00:38:11,880 Speaker 5: potential conduit. Maybe he understands China a little bit better. However, 672 00:38:12,000 --> 00:38:15,000 Speaker 5: all of the public comments we have from Tim Walls 673 00:38:15,040 --> 00:38:18,239 Speaker 5: in the last many years about China have been very 674 00:38:18,320 --> 00:38:23,440 Speaker 5: much human rights focused and critical of China's human rights records. 675 00:38:23,480 --> 00:38:27,360 Speaker 5: So that's going to make China very uneasy if the 676 00:38:27,440 --> 00:38:31,400 Speaker 5: vice president is willing to be an outspoken critic of 677 00:38:31,520 --> 00:38:34,440 Speaker 5: the Chinese human rights record, and that's going to suggest 678 00:38:34,480 --> 00:38:36,400 Speaker 5: to them that he's going to be very much in 679 00:38:36,480 --> 00:38:40,399 Speaker 5: line with what the Biden administration policy has been thus far. 680 00:38:40,880 --> 00:38:44,000 Speaker 3: And this relationship over the last twenty or thirty years 681 00:38:44,040 --> 00:38:46,600 Speaker 3: between the US and China certainly has become a lot 682 00:38:46,680 --> 00:38:50,279 Speaker 3: more complicated. Thanks for helping us understand it a bit more. 683 00:38:50,800 --> 00:38:54,359 Speaker 3: Nick Wadams there. Bloomberg US National Security Team leader Nick 684 00:38:54,440 --> 00:38:57,359 Speaker 3: joining from Washington, d C. I'm Doug Krisner. You can 685 00:38:57,440 --> 00:39:01,120 Speaker 3: join Brian Curtis and myself weekdays Hereloomberg day Break Asia, 686 00:39:01,400 --> 00:39:04,640 Speaker 3: beginning at eight am in Hong Kong eight pm on 687 00:39:04,719 --> 00:39:05,280 Speaker 3: Wall Street. 688 00:39:05,520 --> 00:39:07,799 Speaker 1: Tom, Thank you, Doug, and that does it for this 689 00:39:07,960 --> 00:39:10,680 Speaker 1: edition of Bloomberg day Break Weekend. Join us again Monday 690 00:39:10,680 --> 00:39:12,800 Speaker 1: morning at five am Wall Street time for the latest 691 00:39:12,840 --> 00:39:15,319 Speaker 1: on markets overseas and the news you need to start 692 00:39:15,360 --> 00:39:18,760 Speaker 1: your day. I'm Tom Busby. Stay with us. Top stories 693 00:39:18,760 --> 00:39:21,360 Speaker 1: and global business headlines are coming up right now.