WEBVTT - The Power of Social Sculpture with Rick Lowe 0:00:15.356 --> 0:00:25.796 Pushkin Getting Even is produced by Pushkin Industries. Subscribe to 0:00:25.836 --> 0:00:29.316 Pushkin Plus and you can hear Getting Even and other 0:00:29.356 --> 0:00:35.596 Pushkin shows add free and receive exclusive bonus episodes. Sign 0:00:35.756 --> 0:00:39.716 up on the Getting Even show page in Apple Podcasts 0:00:39.956 --> 0:00:45.396 or at Pushkin dot fm. A fern of mine brought 0:00:45.516 --> 0:00:49.036 some of their students by my studio. One kid was 0:00:49.076 --> 0:00:52.196 saying how he liked the work. But then before they left, 0:00:52.196 --> 0:00:54.916 he said, but do you know what's solow While you're painting, 0:00:54.916 --> 0:00:58.596 the sculptures show what's happening in our communities. We don't 0:00:58.596 --> 0:01:00.676 need to be told what's happening. We know what's happening. 0:01:00.916 --> 0:01:03.196 If artists are created, why can't they create a solution? 0:01:03.596 --> 0:01:07.836 And I just went, whoa wait a minute. That's Rick 0:01:07.916 --> 0:01:13.476 low and artist MacArthur Genius fellow and community organizer who 0:01:13.516 --> 0:01:18.836 lives and works in Houston. His work engages and transforms 0:01:18.956 --> 0:01:24.636 communities through social practice and collaboration. And nearly three decades ago, 0:01:25.516 --> 0:01:30.556 the question that student asks changed the course of Lowe's career. 0:01:31.516 --> 0:01:34.236 I mean, this student just pulled the rug from under 0:01:34.276 --> 0:01:36.276 me of like you know. I mean, by that time, 0:01:36.276 --> 0:01:39.116 I had been practicing as an artist for almost ten years. 0:01:39.196 --> 0:01:41.756 You know, I'm like, it took me aback, and that's 0:01:41.756 --> 0:01:47.996 when I closed my studio down and started researching artists 0:01:47.996 --> 0:01:52.236 that actually did art that was both poetic and symbolic 0:01:52.316 --> 0:01:55.516 but also had a practical application, and so that led 0:01:55.596 --> 0:01:59.956 me to this journey. Lowe started out as a landscape painter, 0:02:00.036 --> 0:02:03.996 but soon took up the practice of social sculpture, using 0:02:04.036 --> 0:02:11.436 creativity to shape communities. He uses space, architecture, and opportunity 0:02:11.516 --> 0:02:16.196 as mediums like clay or paint to shape society itself. 0:02:17.636 --> 0:02:20.436 For the past twenty five years, Lowe has crafted one 0:02:20.556 --> 0:02:26.556 particular social sculpture in Houston's Third Ward. It's called Project 0:02:26.756 --> 0:02:31.516 Row Houses, and it's an artist led community space that's 0:02:31.596 --> 0:02:36.356 dedicated to the creation of art, education and housing. In 0:02:36.396 --> 0:02:39.876 the initial stages, we thought maybe we were just gonna, 0:02:40.076 --> 0:02:42.836 you know, take these twenty two shotgun houses and we 0:02:42.836 --> 0:02:44.516 were going to do a few art shows in it 0:02:44.596 --> 0:02:47.036 and you know, bring artists in. We didn't have this 0:02:47.076 --> 0:02:49.516 idea that was going to be this thing, but then 0:02:49.516 --> 0:02:58.876 it just kept growing. I'm Anita Hill. This is Getting 0:02:58.996 --> 0:03:02.476 Even my podcast about equality and what it takes to 0:03:02.476 --> 0:03:07.196 get there. On Getting Even, I speak with people who 0:03:07.236 --> 0:03:12.676 are improving are perfect world people who took risk and 0:03:12.796 --> 0:03:16.476 broke the rules. In this episode, Rick Lowe and I 0:03:16.516 --> 0:03:19.356 discuss how he views his art and the role it 0:03:19.476 --> 0:03:24.276 plays in his Houston community. Low is represented by the 0:03:24.356 --> 0:03:30.196 prestigious Cogosian Gallery and has won numerous awards for his paintings, sculptures, 0:03:30.436 --> 0:03:34.716 and installations. Low and I speak about how he developed 0:03:34.756 --> 0:03:39.596 his social art practice, the importance of space to equality, 0:03:40.556 --> 0:03:46.156 and the impact that artistic investment can have on underserved communities. 0:03:47.596 --> 0:03:51.876 So you started out your career as a landscape painter. 0:03:52.516 --> 0:03:56.396 You went to a school that specialized in landscape painting, 0:03:56.996 --> 0:04:00.876 but also there was something else that drew you to it. Well, 0:04:00.916 --> 0:04:03.596 first of all, I went there to play basketball. That 0:04:03.716 --> 0:04:06.476 was my main focus at the time. Where I grew 0:04:06.556 --> 0:04:11.316 up in rural Alabama, there were based five ways your 0:04:11.356 --> 0:04:14.956 life would go after high school. The big one was 0:04:14.996 --> 0:04:17.876 really people were joining the military. If you were lucky 0:04:17.876 --> 0:04:19.876 and talented enough of something, you could get some kind 0:04:19.876 --> 0:04:22.476 of sports scholarship or something like that, or you become 0:04:22.516 --> 0:04:25.716 a factory worker or a drug dealer, or you just 0:04:25.716 --> 0:04:28.796 stayed at home. It was very limited options, and so 0:04:29.116 --> 0:04:31.996 I took the root of sports and went to school 0:04:31.996 --> 0:04:34.596 thinking that sports was going to be my way of 0:04:34.916 --> 0:04:38.596 elevating myself to a point that I could actually do 0:04:38.676 --> 0:04:41.076 things for other people, I could live a purposeful life. 0:04:41.196 --> 0:04:44.036 But it was there that I ended up taking art 0:04:44.036 --> 0:04:49.076 classes and made a shift. So it was so interesting 0:04:49.076 --> 0:04:52.036 for me because I had spent so much time just 0:04:52.236 --> 0:04:55.156 sucking in the red color of the soil, in the 0:04:55.316 --> 0:04:59.756 green pine trees and rural Alabama, even the white clay. 0:04:59.796 --> 0:05:02.876 So this combination of red and white and green was 0:05:02.916 --> 0:05:06.396 always something that it had a huge imprint on my psyche. 0:05:06.436 --> 0:05:10.596 You know, that kind of earth. So you've seen spaces 0:05:10.676 --> 0:05:13.036 in a number of ways, I mean the physical sense, 0:05:13.076 --> 0:05:16.396 but also in the legal and cultural sense. You've seen 0:05:16.436 --> 0:05:22.676 segregated spaces, and Nope, what that feels like. Absolutely. I 0:05:22.876 --> 0:05:26.756 was trained as a painter, and I always had this 0:05:26.836 --> 0:05:30.876 mission of doing work that would contribute to transforming the 0:05:30.876 --> 0:05:34.916 conditions of people that are in disadvantaged situations. And so 0:05:34.996 --> 0:05:39.116 as an early painter, I painted things about police brutality, 0:05:39.276 --> 0:05:42.316 about poverty and all those kinds of things. And then 0:05:42.316 --> 0:05:45.076 I end up switching over to something that was inspired 0:05:45.116 --> 0:05:48.676 by the German artist Joseph Boy's concept of social sculpture. 0:05:49.276 --> 0:05:53.636 Joseph Boy's definition of social sculpture was basically the way 0:05:53.676 --> 0:05:55.956 that we shape and mold the world around us, and 0:05:56.036 --> 0:06:00.196 that everybody is participating as artists. I went from landscape 0:06:00.236 --> 0:06:03.516 paintings realizing that, Okay, the landscape's great and all that stuff, 0:06:03.556 --> 0:06:05.716 but I want to do stuff that talks about issues 0:06:05.756 --> 0:06:09.356 that people that come from backgrounds like I came from, 0:06:09.476 --> 0:06:11.516 are all about. I want to speak to those issues. 0:06:11.836 --> 0:06:15.356 And so I switched from landscape to doing figurative work, 0:06:15.716 --> 0:06:17.916 and I went through this whole thing of trying to 0:06:17.956 --> 0:06:19.916 make sure that it wasn't work that would just fit 0:06:19.956 --> 0:06:22.356 in galleries and that kind of stuff, and wasn't just 0:06:22.476 --> 0:06:25.716 for sale, that it connected with things, and so I 0:06:25.756 --> 0:06:30.276 started doing these very clunky, large scale things in conjunction 0:06:30.316 --> 0:06:34.036 with political groups like anders international human rights weak or 0:06:34.596 --> 0:06:38.476 activism and stuff. Let's talk about some of your very 0:06:38.516 --> 0:06:45.316 specific work project Rowhouses in Houston, which has been a 0:06:45.356 --> 0:06:48.676 big part of your artistic work for the last thirty years. 0:06:49.836 --> 0:06:53.756 This isn't I think nineteen ninety there were two people 0:06:53.836 --> 0:06:56.636 killed by the police here in the Third Ward neighborhood. 0:06:57.236 --> 0:07:00.876 Activists had been working on this thing for like a year, 0:07:01.036 --> 0:07:04.036 trying to call attention to the injustices and get get 0:07:04.076 --> 0:07:06.756 the police charged. But after a year or so, the 0:07:06.796 --> 0:07:08.636 media got a little tired of it and kind of 0:07:08.676 --> 0:07:11.036 dissipate a little bit, and so I was just an 0:07:11.436 --> 0:07:14.956 artist around among the crew, right, passing out flyers and 0:07:15.076 --> 0:07:18.316 doing stuff for the community leaders. But then one day 0:07:18.356 --> 0:07:19.756 I at a meeting. They were trying to figure out 0:07:19.756 --> 0:07:22.596 how could they get media attention, and I said, oh, well, 0:07:22.596 --> 0:07:25.196 I could create an installation, you know, an art installation, 0:07:25.476 --> 0:07:28.036 and they kind of looked at me like, okay, whatever. 0:07:28.356 --> 0:07:30.276 So I went out and I went to this little 0:07:30.676 --> 0:07:34.316 handball court in a park and I built this giant, giant, 0:07:34.396 --> 0:07:38.476 giant installation with all these big giant paintings and cutout 0:07:38.516 --> 0:07:41.276 sculptures and all this stuff dealing with police brutality and all. 0:07:41.476 --> 0:07:43.076 And they saw me out there doing it, and as 0:07:43.076 --> 0:07:45.476 it got closer to finish, they went like, whoa, we 0:07:45.516 --> 0:07:47.756 should have a press conference here, and so they did. 0:07:48.196 --> 0:07:50.876 So they had this press conference with all the activists, 0:07:50.916 --> 0:07:53.236 you know, they were sitting in the table in the 0:07:53.236 --> 0:07:56.236 middle of this big installation, all the media from all 0:07:56.276 --> 0:07:59.636 over there, and I was like, that was so meaningful 0:07:59.676 --> 0:08:03.116 for me to be of service that way. After the 0:08:03.836 --> 0:08:05.836 press conference, it was on the cover of all the 0:08:05.876 --> 0:08:08.916 local newspapers and all the television shows. So my work 0:08:08.996 --> 0:08:11.636 was out there and I was feeling like I'm really 0:08:12.196 --> 0:08:16.116 doing exactly it, you know, I'm being an artist and activist, 0:08:16.716 --> 0:08:20.236 until a friend of mine a year later brought some 0:08:20.316 --> 0:08:23.756 of their students by my studio where I had disassembled 0:08:23.756 --> 0:08:25.436 all this stuff, and it was just all, you know, 0:08:25.476 --> 0:08:28.436 sitting around, and this one kid was saying how he 0:08:28.676 --> 0:08:30.796 liked the work. But then before they left, he said, 0:08:31.036 --> 0:08:33.236 but do you know, miss Lowe, why you're painting The 0:08:33.316 --> 0:08:36.996 sculptures show what's happening in our communities. We don't need 0:08:37.036 --> 0:08:39.316 to be told what's happening. We know what's happening. If 0:08:39.396 --> 0:08:41.956 artists are created, why can't they create a solution? And 0:08:41.996 --> 0:08:46.596 I just went, whoa wait a minute, I mean this hold, 0:08:46.596 --> 0:08:50.836 are you right? I mean this student just pulled the 0:08:50.996 --> 0:08:53.076 rug from under me of like you know, I mean, 0:08:53.276 --> 0:08:55.836 by that time, I had been practicing as an artist 0:08:55.836 --> 0:08:58.636 for almost ten years, you know, I'm like yeah, So 0:08:58.676 --> 0:09:02.036 it was very shocking, and it just it took me aback, 0:09:02.116 --> 0:09:05.716 and that's when I closed my studio down and started 0:09:06.356 --> 0:09:12.636 researching artists that actually did art that was both poetic 0:09:12.676 --> 0:09:16.076 and symbolic but also had a practical application. And so 0:09:16.116 --> 0:09:18.796 that led me to this journey that started project to 0:09:18.836 --> 0:09:22.556 Our Houses. Can you describe that project for us? I've 0:09:22.716 --> 0:09:26.436 found these little houses that reminded me of John Biggers. 0:09:27.036 --> 0:09:29.396 He was an artist that had come to Houston and 0:09:29.436 --> 0:09:32.476 he started the art department at Texas Southern University here 0:09:32.516 --> 0:09:35.076 in Houston, and he did a lot of paintings about 0:09:35.116 --> 0:09:37.996 shotgun houses and stuff. And he had gone to West 0:09:38.036 --> 0:09:41.916 Africa and he saw the relationship between the shotgun houses 0:09:41.916 --> 0:09:45.276 in the West African villages that he visited, and he 0:09:45.516 --> 0:09:48.036 just he dove in and he did all this research 0:09:48.076 --> 0:09:51.156 and he came up with this whole kind of mythology 0:09:51.196 --> 0:09:54.636 around it about how the shotgun house was a product 0:09:54.716 --> 0:09:58.516 of the slave trade, slaves moving from West Africa and 0:09:58.556 --> 0:10:02.236 to the West Indies and having opportunities to build their 0:10:02.236 --> 0:10:04.596 own structures. Sometimes they were just built in the way 0:10:04.636 --> 0:10:07.556 that they were accustomed to. And then from the West 0:10:07.596 --> 0:10:11.996 Indies into New Orleans was the kind of the first 0:10:12.036 --> 0:10:16.116 location of these little shotgun style houses that were expanded 0:10:16.156 --> 0:10:19.556 with a Western influence, a European influence, and so it 0:10:19.596 --> 0:10:22.556 was like a narrow, skinny little thing, and you walk 0:10:22.636 --> 0:10:24.836 into the middle of the house and you can look 0:10:24.836 --> 0:10:26.676 to the left and you'll see it goes straight out 0:10:26.676 --> 0:10:28.276 to a window there and you look to the right. 0:10:28.476 --> 0:10:31.956 So there were things about it that spoke to the 0:10:32.116 --> 0:10:36.156 brilliance of people that brought that with them, and then 0:10:36.156 --> 0:10:38.196 it just kind of moved out. So he wroped all 0:10:38.236 --> 0:10:41.236 that history in that gave me a foundation through which 0:10:41.236 --> 0:10:45.636 I could actually pursue social sculpture to generate interests of 0:10:45.676 --> 0:10:48.636 people in sculpting with me a community that had such 0:10:48.676 --> 0:10:52.756 a rich history. And when you found those houses, they 0:10:52.756 --> 0:10:57.436 were shattered right. Yes, yes, in fact I found the 0:10:57.476 --> 0:11:01.756 houses because at that time, after the student had pulled 0:11:01.756 --> 0:11:04.756 the rug from under me about my painting practice, I 0:11:04.996 --> 0:11:07.036 just was spending a lot of time volunteering in the 0:11:07.076 --> 0:11:09.796 community and working with the act of this that were 0:11:10.356 --> 0:11:14.556 in this neighborhood. And one day they were organizing a 0:11:14.596 --> 0:11:20.156 tour of dangerous places within the community, and they had 0:11:20.196 --> 0:11:22.876 representatives from the city and the county on a bus 0:11:22.916 --> 0:11:25.436 and they were driving around saying, this is a place 0:11:25.436 --> 0:11:28.716 for harboring drug activities, this is a place for prostitution. 0:11:28.996 --> 0:11:32.396 They were asking them to be torn down. On the 0:11:32.396 --> 0:11:35.236 bus going back to the center, they stopped at this 0:11:35.316 --> 0:11:37.756 little block and a half of Shotgun House. This was 0:11:37.756 --> 0:11:39.956 twenty two of them, and they said, and this is 0:11:39.956 --> 0:11:43.956 the absolute worst place in the entire neighborhood. And they 0:11:44.076 --> 0:11:47.076 said it just needed to go. And I was just 0:11:47.076 --> 0:11:48.556 sitting there on the bus with them. I had no 0:11:48.636 --> 0:11:52.916 thoughts about it until later going back looking at those 0:11:52.916 --> 0:11:56.996 houses and then thinking about John Bigger's glorification of the 0:11:56.996 --> 0:12:00.956 shotgun house or shotgun communities. Then it just kind of 0:12:00.996 --> 0:12:02.876 hit me. I was like, well, wait a minute, this 0:12:02.916 --> 0:12:05.676 could be an ideal place for social sculpture because it 0:12:05.796 --> 0:12:09.796 had a deep level of history and it could symbolically 0:12:09.836 --> 0:12:15.276 mean something and also address some practical elements. You know. 0:12:15.316 --> 0:12:19.036 And where I'm from, when I've heard the term shotgun house, 0:12:19.876 --> 0:12:26.516 it's usually said disparagingly. And so it's amazing to me 0:12:26.716 --> 0:12:29.436 that with the right history, with the right amount of 0:12:29.516 --> 0:12:33.796 knowledge that you got from Professor Biggers, you were able 0:12:33.836 --> 0:12:38.796 to see the beauty and the worth and value in them. 0:12:38.836 --> 0:12:44.036 Oh yeah, absolutely, So now you take possession of these 0:12:44.116 --> 0:12:48.516 twenty two houses, correct, That was the initial concepts. We're 0:12:48.556 --> 0:12:50.596 going to take these houses and then you have to 0:12:50.636 --> 0:12:53.316 figure out what you're going to do with this space. 0:12:54.636 --> 0:12:59.716 How was that process? Well, identifying those houses and saying 0:13:00.316 --> 0:13:03.996 these houses mean something and we should do something. Not 0:13:04.116 --> 0:13:06.596 a clue about really how to manage that and stuff, 0:13:06.636 --> 0:13:09.716 but it was just really taking that first step, knowing 0:13:09.756 --> 0:13:13.116 that there's meaning and there's value there, and with a 0:13:13.276 --> 0:13:16.796 trust that somehow it will end fold. And I think 0:13:16.916 --> 0:13:20.116 that to me also became the point when I learned 0:13:20.516 --> 0:13:23.396 really and truly the value of social sculpture is that 0:13:24.996 --> 0:13:28.116 if you're sculpting in society, you can't do it alone. 0:13:28.676 --> 0:13:31.196 You must do it in a way that rely on 0:13:31.316 --> 0:13:34.916 the gifts and strengths of other people. And so for me, 0:13:35.916 --> 0:13:37.956 I didn't even know the first thing about real estate. 0:13:37.996 --> 0:13:40.716 I had never purchased any real estate anything in my life. 0:13:41.196 --> 0:13:43.756 So immediately, all of a sudden, it was like, oh, 0:13:43.796 --> 0:13:46.036 I had to find people that knew something about real estate. 0:13:46.196 --> 0:13:48.796 And then it was like, oh, well, the houses they 0:13:48.796 --> 0:13:52.156 were all falling down. I was like, okay, so now 0:13:52.156 --> 0:13:54.436 we have to find somebody it knows something about construction. 0:13:54.716 --> 0:13:58.716 It's interesting because the six other artists that I was 0:13:58.716 --> 0:14:02.596 working with, you know, they were all behind me. They 0:14:02.596 --> 0:14:05.316 were interested in this. They believed in it, I guess 0:14:05.316 --> 0:14:07.916 because I had. When people have that energy and that 0:14:07.956 --> 0:14:10.076 thing in their eye, and people okay, well, you know, 0:14:10.076 --> 0:14:12.716 you might as well get with this person because you 0:14:12.756 --> 0:14:16.276 know you're gonna not gonna stop, right, That's right. Yeah, 0:14:16.436 --> 0:14:19.796 so you and once I was able to get a 0:14:19.956 --> 0:14:23.276 least purchase agreement on these twenty two houses, we just 0:14:23.316 --> 0:14:26.796 started cleaning up. In fact, there was an elder lady 0:14:26.836 --> 0:14:30.756 who had lived behind this particular property. She was the 0:14:30.796 --> 0:14:34.316 only person that was still living and basically a four 0:14:34.356 --> 0:14:36.716 block area, and she had lived there. She had bought 0:14:36.756 --> 0:14:39.716 her house in nineteen forty nine, and in the midst 0:14:39.756 --> 0:14:42.796 of all that chaos around her, she still had her 0:14:42.836 --> 0:14:46.916 picket fence, white house flowers in her she you know, 0:14:46.996 --> 0:14:50.356 she was The community just died around her, but she didn't, 0:14:50.756 --> 0:14:53.516 and she was very tough to be there. She would 0:14:53.596 --> 0:14:56.676 walk outside with her pistol and ask us what we're 0:14:56.676 --> 0:14:58.556 doing and says, if you're not, you know, if you're 0:14:58.556 --> 0:15:00.876 playing around, I'm gonna shoot. You know. We're like, okay, 0:15:00.876 --> 0:15:03.956 but we're not. We're gonna And then I remember her 0:15:03.956 --> 0:15:05.636 saying that she says, if you want to do something 0:15:05.636 --> 0:15:08.476 in this place, clean this mess up and that was 0:15:08.516 --> 0:15:11.396 our first Q. It's like, okay, we've got the houses, 0:15:11.556 --> 0:15:14.956 let's call people out and say, let's clean up this block. 0:15:15.076 --> 0:15:17.236 Let's clean up this block, these two blocks here, And 0:15:17.276 --> 0:15:20.356 so that's kind of how we started. Was just people 0:15:20.636 --> 0:15:24.716 with shovels and rakes and trash bags and it was 0:15:24.756 --> 0:15:29.516 almost like excavating because so much had overgrown. Yeah, we 0:15:29.556 --> 0:15:33.916 were just having fun cleaning up a place. After the break. 0:15:34.196 --> 0:15:37.196 Rick low and I discussed the far reaching impact of 0:15:37.236 --> 0:15:52.196 his social sculpture work, particularly Project Rowhouses. You're listening to 0:15:52.236 --> 0:15:56.156 getting even. I'm Anita Hill. I'm speaking with artists Rick 0:15:56.276 --> 0:16:01.316 Lowe about Project Rowhouses, a social sculpture in Houston's Third 0:16:01.356 --> 0:16:06.116 Ward that he started over two decades ago. Isaac Rowhouses 0:16:06.116 --> 0:16:10.956 currently includes thirty nine houses and covers five city blocks 0:16:10.996 --> 0:16:16.876 and provides transitional housing, gallery and residency spaces for artists 0:16:16.916 --> 0:16:24.636 and storefronts for entrepreneurs. I've seen photos of the houses, 0:16:24.796 --> 0:16:28.636 but for those who haven't, can you describe where they 0:16:28.636 --> 0:16:32.516 are now and who's in them? Yeah? Well, when we 0:16:32.596 --> 0:16:35.956 start cleaning them up, just a handful of us artists, 0:16:36.756 --> 0:16:40.236 all of a sudden, children from the neighborhood started coming. 0:16:40.716 --> 0:16:42.716 They were curious about, you know, what are they doing 0:16:42.716 --> 0:16:45.276 over there? And little kids, the ones that are five 0:16:45.396 --> 0:16:47.596 to ten twelve years old, they would just come and 0:16:47.676 --> 0:16:50.476 hang out and we would buy lunch and stuff and 0:16:50.596 --> 0:16:53.276 hang out with them and kind of mentor them. And 0:16:53.356 --> 0:16:58.676 so that was our first unofficial program, was a youth program, 0:16:58.716 --> 0:17:03.396 just being older adults there to talk to children about 0:17:03.436 --> 0:17:05.156 what are you doing with your life and what do 0:17:05.196 --> 0:17:06.796 you want to do, what are you dreaming about it, 0:17:06.916 --> 0:17:09.516 you know, and giving them meaningful things to do. And 0:17:09.556 --> 0:17:13.596 so what we decided at that point was that we 0:17:13.636 --> 0:17:17.036 needed an education program for young people because the thing 0:17:17.076 --> 0:17:24.996 that we observed was that yesteryear, the grandparents and aunts 0:17:25.036 --> 0:17:27.996 and uncles were the people that took care of and 0:17:28.076 --> 0:17:31.636 looked after children when their parents were at work or 0:17:31.676 --> 0:17:36.076 so on and so forth. But after I guess the eighties, 0:17:36.356 --> 0:17:38.076 you know, I mean, we lost so many of those 0:17:38.116 --> 0:17:41.916 grandparents and uncles and aunts to drugs, and so they 0:17:41.916 --> 0:17:45.196 were not able to provide those good, wholesome places that 0:17:45.236 --> 0:17:47.436 we remember, you know, where there was always somebody on 0:17:47.476 --> 0:17:49.236 the block that looked after all, you know, made sure 0:17:49.236 --> 0:17:52.316 everybody is okay. So we kind of called ourselves to uncles, 0:17:52.836 --> 0:17:55.476 the uncles and aunts of the community, because we were 0:17:55.516 --> 0:17:57.356 the place where the kids could come and be safe, 0:17:57.836 --> 0:18:00.636 and so we developed an education program that would work 0:18:00.716 --> 0:18:03.676 with them after school and during the summer so that 0:18:03.676 --> 0:18:06.556 they would have safe places to go that were productive. 0:18:06.636 --> 0:18:09.436 So that was our first programmatic thing. But then, of 0:18:09.436 --> 0:18:11.596 course then we said we wanted to make sure that 0:18:11.756 --> 0:18:15.636 artists were at the forefront. So instead of having an 0:18:15.756 --> 0:18:18.516 education coordinator, we just said we will allow artists. We 0:18:18.596 --> 0:18:21.956 give artists stipends and let them do what they do 0:18:22.156 --> 0:18:24.876 and educate people in the process. So then we started 0:18:24.916 --> 0:18:28.116 this art program that at eight houses where artists could 0:18:28.156 --> 0:18:30.756 do art projects, and we had the five houses in 0:18:30.796 --> 0:18:34.356 the back like little school houses and stuff. That was 0:18:34.436 --> 0:18:38.756 like the first year or so, and I remember we 0:18:38.756 --> 0:18:41.516 were talking about the other houses. What should we do 0:18:41.556 --> 0:18:44.436 with the other houses. The logical thinking was that, oh, 0:18:44.556 --> 0:18:47.396 we should, we should have artists and residents to live here. 0:18:47.836 --> 0:18:50.756 That was a logical thing, and then we ended up 0:18:50.756 --> 0:18:54.796 with those seven houses being used as a transitional housing 0:18:54.836 --> 0:19:00.236 for single mothers. Why did you choose the single mothers, Well, 0:19:00.396 --> 0:19:02.396 Deb Grolsfeldt, who was working with us at the time. 0:19:02.556 --> 0:19:05.516 She was doing research and she just she went to 0:19:05.516 --> 0:19:08.476 the local high school and she just thought, oh my god, 0:19:08.556 --> 0:19:12.116 she was at a They had like a whole special 0:19:12.196 --> 0:19:15.916 class for pregnant girls at the school, and she was like, 0:19:15.956 --> 0:19:18.836 there's so many. It was just a Yeah. It was 0:19:18.876 --> 0:19:20.956 an eye opening thing for all of us that that 0:19:21.076 --> 0:19:24.316 was such an issue in the community. But then it 0:19:24.316 --> 0:19:27.396 became pretty obvious once we started a program. There are 0:19:27.436 --> 0:19:30.236 lots of young girls that are out here in this 0:19:30.276 --> 0:19:33.556 community and they're preyed upon and all kinds of things, 0:19:33.556 --> 0:19:37.156 and they're ending up being parents of babies that they 0:19:37.156 --> 0:19:39.516 don't really know how to manage and deal with. So 0:19:40.196 --> 0:19:43.196 maybe we could help with that. What did you expect 0:19:44.156 --> 0:19:49.636 these young mothers to get from the project? Well, first 0:19:49.676 --> 0:19:52.156 of all, we were really trying to figure out how 0:19:52.156 --> 0:19:56.036 we could root this project deeply in the community, and 0:19:56.036 --> 0:20:01.036 so selecting single mothers at that time, the majority were 0:20:01.076 --> 0:20:03.596 from this neighborhood that we thought that would be a 0:20:03.756 --> 0:20:05.876 real way for us to show that we're really serious 0:20:05.916 --> 0:20:09.596 about connecting with this community. So that was our initial thinking. 0:20:09.916 --> 0:20:13.036 Because I mean, as as an art project, I mean, 0:20:13.036 --> 0:20:15.556 we didn't say that we were social service providers. We 0:20:15.556 --> 0:20:18.316 didn't know what we were doing, but we just we 0:20:18.396 --> 0:20:21.516 had our heart and our intention was to do something 0:20:21.556 --> 0:20:23.796 that was going to be meaningful for people. You know, 0:20:23.836 --> 0:20:26.716 we didn't know the rules, and sometimes not knowing the 0:20:26.796 --> 0:20:30.116 rules and limitations of things that open things up for you. 0:20:30.276 --> 0:20:33.636 And with these young mothers, you could actually influence two generations. 0:20:33.716 --> 0:20:36.876 I mean, you were really looking into the future. Absolutely. 0:20:37.396 --> 0:20:39.996 I have to tell you this one. I talk about 0:20:40.036 --> 0:20:42.556 her all the time because she was one of the 0:20:42.556 --> 0:20:46.076 first young mothers in the program. But this one I 0:20:46.156 --> 0:20:48.996 love to tell her story because she was amazing. But 0:20:49.436 --> 0:20:53.316 I remember when we were first talking about the program, 0:20:54.556 --> 0:20:58.436 they brought together a group of people that had applied 0:20:58.756 --> 0:21:00.356 and they said, you know, so this is our list 0:21:00.436 --> 0:21:05.036 of women that are interested. And I saw this woman's name, 0:21:05.276 --> 0:21:11.636 her name as Asada Richards, and I went, no, no way, 0:21:11.996 --> 0:21:14.236 because I knew her from this community center that I 0:21:14.276 --> 0:21:17.716 had been doing volunteer work with. And Asado was just 0:21:18.836 --> 0:21:23.916 she was a handful. I mean, she was so she 0:21:24.116 --> 0:21:26.676 was so angry, you know, and she was a part 0:21:26.716 --> 0:21:29.356 of the black nationalist movement that all white people of 0:21:29.436 --> 0:21:31.756 the devil and all this stuff, and the reason it 0:21:31.876 --> 0:21:34.356 was it was odd for me and I was just saying, 0:21:34.796 --> 0:21:36.276 I don't know if we can do this because a 0:21:36.356 --> 0:21:40.636 lot of our supporters were not black. We made sure 0:21:40.716 --> 0:21:42.836 that we centered all of our programming and everything we 0:21:42.916 --> 0:21:45.396 were doing around this community. But our support network was 0:21:46.076 --> 0:21:48.916 very broad. And I was like, she's not gonna make 0:21:48.956 --> 0:21:51.356 it here because we have people on committees that she's 0:21:51.396 --> 0:21:54.916 going to be, you know. And it was interesting that 0:21:55.316 --> 0:21:57.636 the person who was coordinating said, well, we're going to 0:21:57.716 --> 0:22:00.316 take a chance on her. When she signed up for 0:22:00.396 --> 0:22:03.836 the program, I saw her and I spoke to her, 0:22:04.156 --> 0:22:06.556 and it was the first time I had seen her 0:22:06.796 --> 0:22:11.356 like in a position was a little bit reserved, because 0:22:11.356 --> 0:22:14.396 she was always on the proactive, you know, and always 0:22:14.716 --> 0:22:18.516 aggressively challenging everything, but she was observing. And then I 0:22:18.636 --> 0:22:21.236 just noticed for the next year how she was just 0:22:21.476 --> 0:22:23.876 she was just a calm person. She had been on 0:22:23.916 --> 0:22:27.796 academic probation at University of Houston, but while she was there, 0:22:28.036 --> 0:22:31.156 and she had this support network of basically she had 0:22:31.156 --> 0:22:33.916 a home that was secure for her, all of her 0:22:33.996 --> 0:22:38.476 utilities were paid, We had the childcare situation taken care of. 0:22:38.836 --> 0:22:42.516 They had group counseling, individual counseling, and all these different 0:22:42.556 --> 0:22:46.156 things right, and all of a sudden, like she was 0:22:46.236 --> 0:22:47.876 in her junior year that year, and all of a 0:22:47.876 --> 0:22:50.836 sudden she was doing really good. And then she ended 0:22:50.916 --> 0:22:52.996 up doing so well that by the time she graduated, 0:22:53.276 --> 0:22:57.116 one of her professors basically recommended that she applied to 0:22:57.196 --> 0:23:00.596 graduate school. We encouraged her. She applied to Penn State 0:23:00.636 --> 0:23:04.476 and she got in, and she was like, it was 0:23:04.516 --> 0:23:06.556 the hardest thing in the world to get her mind 0:23:06.636 --> 0:23:09.636 around the fact that she was gonna leave. I remember 0:23:09.676 --> 0:23:11.516 she and her little son, you know, we all packed 0:23:11.556 --> 0:23:14.036 stuff up and like a family, you know, we sent 0:23:14.116 --> 0:23:16.956 her on away and she went there and she worked, 0:23:16.996 --> 0:23:18.596 and it was it was a struggle for her, though, 0:23:19.116 --> 0:23:22.036 And I mean, she's just she's become amazing and she's 0:23:22.076 --> 0:23:25.276 a major leader here in this community, and I'm just 0:23:25.396 --> 0:23:28.076 one of those stories. And she also helped me understand 0:23:28.116 --> 0:23:32.316 the social sculpture aspect of it. I remember her saying 0:23:33.036 --> 0:23:36.316 at some point doing that program, she was like, you know, 0:23:36.476 --> 0:23:39.316 I finally figured out why I'm here and why this 0:23:39.516 --> 0:23:41.356 is valuable. And I was like, what do you mean. 0:23:41.436 --> 0:23:44.156 She goes, we are you always talking about social sculpture? 0:23:44.356 --> 0:23:48.876