1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:04,680 Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is 2 00:00:04,760 --> 00:00:09,080 Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or 3 00:00:09,200 --> 00:00:12,079 Speaker 1: learn the stuff they don't want you to know. A 4 00:00:12,200 --> 00:00:25,560 Speaker 1: production of I Heart Radio. Hello, welcome back to the show. 5 00:00:25,680 --> 00:00:28,120 Speaker 1: My name is Matt, my name is Noel. They call 6 00:00:28,240 --> 00:00:31,280 Speaker 1: me Ben. We are joined as always with our super producer, 7 00:00:31,400 --> 00:00:35,360 Speaker 1: all mission controlled decads. Most importantly, you are you. You 8 00:00:35,400 --> 00:00:39,120 Speaker 1: are here, and that makes this stuff they don't want 9 00:00:39,200 --> 00:00:41,960 Speaker 1: you to know. It should go without saying for anybody's 10 00:00:42,040 --> 00:00:44,720 Speaker 1: check the title of today's episode that this is a 11 00:00:44,920 --> 00:00:49,760 Speaker 1: very special show for us. We are in conversation with 12 00:00:49,880 --> 00:00:54,640 Speaker 1: the award winning, multi platinum selling recording artists musical phenomenon 13 00:00:55,040 --> 00:00:58,360 Speaker 1: and now host of our pure podcast, Kesha and the Creepies, 14 00:00:58,760 --> 00:01:02,000 Speaker 1: The one and old Kesha. You're really here. Thank you 15 00:01:02,040 --> 00:01:05,000 Speaker 1: so much for joining us today, Thanks for having me. 16 00:01:05,400 --> 00:01:07,880 Speaker 1: And what if I'm just a hologram of myself? It's 17 00:01:07,880 --> 00:01:11,360 Speaker 1: not really certainly possible, but Ben would be hype manning 18 00:01:11,400 --> 00:01:13,479 Speaker 1: that hologram like as best as I think I've ever 19 00:01:13,520 --> 00:01:16,040 Speaker 1: heard done than. Thank you so much for joining us, Kesha, 20 00:01:16,120 --> 00:01:19,039 Speaker 1: This is exciting. Um. Kesha and the Creepies is a 21 00:01:19,080 --> 00:01:21,240 Speaker 1: show that I was super excited to have a little 22 00:01:21,240 --> 00:01:23,280 Speaker 1: bit of a hand and kind of you know, starting 23 00:01:23,520 --> 00:01:26,199 Speaker 1: together on the network and um, just kind of working 24 00:01:26,240 --> 00:01:28,760 Speaker 1: with you to to get it on the I Heart network. 25 00:01:28,800 --> 00:01:30,840 Speaker 1: And yeah, it felt from the start like a good 26 00:01:30,840 --> 00:01:33,920 Speaker 1: fit for our show because it's really just an exploration 27 00:01:34,040 --> 00:01:38,400 Speaker 1: of kind of all things creepy, all things supernatural, psychedelic, bizarre. 28 00:01:38,600 --> 00:01:41,360 Speaker 1: To tell us a little bit upfront where this comes from, 29 00:01:41,400 --> 00:01:44,480 Speaker 1: and as far as your fascination with this kind of stuff, sure, well, 30 00:01:44,520 --> 00:01:46,600 Speaker 1: I definitely think that you had more than just a 31 00:01:46,600 --> 00:01:48,640 Speaker 1: little bit of a hand in that. You've been very 32 00:01:48,680 --> 00:01:51,400 Speaker 1: helpful in guiding me in the ways of making a podcast. 33 00:01:51,400 --> 00:01:54,960 Speaker 1: So I think you and I just have always been 34 00:01:54,960 --> 00:01:58,320 Speaker 1: fascinated with things that I don't understand. I always find 35 00:01:58,480 --> 00:02:00,480 Speaker 1: that that's the most magical part of life. So I've 36 00:02:00,480 --> 00:02:03,680 Speaker 1: always been drawn to trying to discover more and more 37 00:02:03,920 --> 00:02:06,680 Speaker 1: about it. But it turns out the more I know, 38 00:02:07,080 --> 00:02:09,520 Speaker 1: the more I realized I don't know. So I just 39 00:02:09,560 --> 00:02:12,480 Speaker 1: want to talk to all the people with all the 40 00:02:12,560 --> 00:02:16,200 Speaker 1: experiences and get all different perspectives. And that's what my 41 00:02:16,280 --> 00:02:20,080 Speaker 1: podcast is about, is just exploring different artists and the 42 00:02:20,120 --> 00:02:26,920 Speaker 1: experiences they've had cult leaders, um, a wizard, just you 43 00:02:27,040 --> 00:02:31,639 Speaker 1: name it. I'm into talking about weird ship, anything that's spiritual. 44 00:02:31,960 --> 00:02:34,280 Speaker 1: It's kind of like a podcast for whatever you want 45 00:02:34,320 --> 00:02:38,040 Speaker 1: to talk about that's just a little bit magical or unexplainable. 46 00:02:38,400 --> 00:02:43,280 Speaker 1: I greatly enjoyed the January first episode pretty recent I believe, 47 00:02:43,320 --> 00:02:47,880 Speaker 1: with paras psychologist Dr Caroline Watt. Yeah, that was so 48 00:02:48,000 --> 00:02:51,799 Speaker 1: interesting for me at least. Did you did you learn 49 00:02:51,840 --> 00:02:55,639 Speaker 1: anything that surprised you in that particular episode. Uh, there 50 00:02:55,720 --> 00:02:58,880 Speaker 1: was one thing that she told me that was about 51 00:02:59,080 --> 00:03:05,440 Speaker 1: fifty people believe in the supernatural, but in that praying 52 00:03:06,040 --> 00:03:09,400 Speaker 1: is considered believing in the supernatural. So if you are 53 00:03:09,440 --> 00:03:12,400 Speaker 1: a person that's ever said a prayer, you would fall 54 00:03:12,440 --> 00:03:16,480 Speaker 1: into that category. And I have usually, in moments of desperation, 55 00:03:17,040 --> 00:03:21,360 Speaker 1: fall into prayer as like a very last option, like 56 00:03:21,360 --> 00:03:25,480 Speaker 1: when I'm on a scary flight or something. And apparently 57 00:03:25,520 --> 00:03:30,040 Speaker 1: that that is participating in believing in the supernatural. And 58 00:03:30,080 --> 00:03:33,359 Speaker 1: I didn't know that believing in God would also be 59 00:03:33,360 --> 00:03:36,040 Speaker 1: believing in the supernatural, but I guess it totally makes sense. 60 00:03:36,200 --> 00:03:38,400 Speaker 1: And yet so many of those folks might consider the 61 00:03:38,480 --> 00:03:41,640 Speaker 1: other realms of supernatural study and belief to be the 62 00:03:41,720 --> 00:03:44,880 Speaker 1: occult or in some way demonic or devil worshipers. I 63 00:03:44,880 --> 00:03:47,520 Speaker 1: think it's very ironic and fascinating. I'd never occurred to me, 64 00:03:47,760 --> 00:03:51,200 Speaker 1: but it absolutely is. What is praying, if not communicating 65 00:03:51,200 --> 00:03:54,800 Speaker 1: with the supernatural, with the other side, with some entity 66 00:03:54,920 --> 00:03:58,520 Speaker 1: beyond this realm and something that can help you if 67 00:03:58,520 --> 00:04:01,040 Speaker 1: you just talk to it that you can't see. So 68 00:04:01,240 --> 00:04:03,160 Speaker 1: once you said that, it kind of blew my mind, 69 00:04:03,240 --> 00:04:05,840 Speaker 1: and I realized that there are so many people that 70 00:04:06,080 --> 00:04:08,480 Speaker 1: believe in the supernatural, even if they're not aware that 71 00:04:08,560 --> 00:04:14,400 Speaker 1: it's supernatural, but it is just supernatural arose by any 72 00:04:14,440 --> 00:04:18,560 Speaker 1: other name. Almost. Yeah, this this is the perfect setup 73 00:04:18,640 --> 00:04:20,960 Speaker 1: for some of the stuff we wanted to explore with 74 00:04:21,040 --> 00:04:26,400 Speaker 1: you today because to that earlier point about what is supernatural, 75 00:04:27,320 --> 00:04:30,280 Speaker 1: we encounter it through kind of our pre existing lens, 76 00:04:30,360 --> 00:04:35,560 Speaker 1: our own experiences as individual human beings. So one person 77 00:04:35,720 --> 00:04:38,920 Speaker 1: might see something and think it's an angel, right, one 78 00:04:38,920 --> 00:04:41,880 Speaker 1: person might see something to think it's a ghost or 79 00:04:41,920 --> 00:04:47,040 Speaker 1: an alien. However, you kind of have the words and 80 00:04:47,880 --> 00:04:51,400 Speaker 1: the information that you've gotten through your whole life of 81 00:04:51,440 --> 00:04:54,600 Speaker 1: what that thing is. But I think we might all 82 00:04:54,640 --> 00:04:57,640 Speaker 1: be talking about the same thing at the end of 83 00:04:57,680 --> 00:05:02,279 Speaker 1: the day, Um my higher consciousness. Sometimes I'm like, is 84 00:05:02,320 --> 00:05:05,679 Speaker 1: that an alien? Is that just me? But my highest self? 85 00:05:06,360 --> 00:05:09,760 Speaker 1: Is that just me meditating and feeling fucking weird? I 86 00:05:09,800 --> 00:05:12,800 Speaker 1: don't know, but it could kind of fall under all 87 00:05:12,800 --> 00:05:15,880 Speaker 1: those names. It Does it come from within me? Or 88 00:05:15,920 --> 00:05:20,120 Speaker 1: am I tuning into something beyond myself? Something external? You know? 89 00:05:20,200 --> 00:05:22,320 Speaker 1: I think that's the most interesting question to me about 90 00:05:22,320 --> 00:05:25,000 Speaker 1: all of this stuff. Me too, Oh my god. Okay, 91 00:05:25,000 --> 00:05:27,000 Speaker 1: I want to hit on this really quickly. You spoke 92 00:05:27,080 --> 00:05:32,960 Speaker 1: recently with Demilovado and she described going to a retreat 93 00:05:33,040 --> 00:05:35,080 Speaker 1: with a specific person that we've spoken to on this 94 00:05:35,080 --> 00:05:39,240 Speaker 1: show before, Steven Greerven Greer, Okay, cool, and and we 95 00:05:39,360 --> 00:05:41,720 Speaker 1: you know, I just want to hear what your take 96 00:05:41,839 --> 00:05:44,200 Speaker 1: is on that, you know, close encounters of the fifth 97 00:05:44,320 --> 00:05:49,400 Speaker 1: kind using meditation to make contact with an extraterrestrial being 98 00:05:49,400 --> 00:05:53,520 Speaker 1: of some sort. Well, I have a kind of funny story. 99 00:05:53,560 --> 00:05:57,200 Speaker 1: But so I went to the dentist fairly recently in 100 00:05:57,240 --> 00:06:01,760 Speaker 1: the past year and had a funked up tooth. So 101 00:06:01,800 --> 00:06:05,840 Speaker 1: I got laughing gas And then when I got home 102 00:06:05,880 --> 00:06:08,400 Speaker 1: that night, I was meditating because I just was like, 103 00:06:08,440 --> 00:06:11,640 Speaker 1: I feel bizarre, I am in pain, I'm going to meditate, 104 00:06:12,400 --> 00:06:17,080 Speaker 1: and that night I had the most psychedelic experience. I 105 00:06:17,160 --> 00:06:24,640 Speaker 1: fully connected to something where I saw a gray. It's 106 00:06:24,640 --> 00:06:28,720 Speaker 1: like the quintessential gray. And this is all through meditation. Granted, 107 00:06:28,720 --> 00:06:30,840 Speaker 1: earlier in the day there was laughing gas involved, but 108 00:06:32,080 --> 00:06:36,240 Speaker 1: something about the combination it was like it opened my 109 00:06:36,279 --> 00:06:39,640 Speaker 1: mind up through getting like a cavity filled, which I 110 00:06:39,720 --> 00:06:43,039 Speaker 1: didn't understand and I still don't understand. But it was 111 00:06:43,080 --> 00:06:45,480 Speaker 1: one of the experiences that made me want to start 112 00:06:45,520 --> 00:06:47,400 Speaker 1: a podcast about it because I was like, this is 113 00:06:47,440 --> 00:06:50,320 Speaker 1: just I don't know what it is, but it's real 114 00:06:50,360 --> 00:06:52,000 Speaker 1: and I can feel it, and I feel it inside 115 00:06:52,000 --> 00:06:55,040 Speaker 1: of me and I'm seeing it and I'm interacting with 116 00:06:55,120 --> 00:06:58,479 Speaker 1: this being and I don't know if it's an alien, 117 00:06:58,520 --> 00:07:01,800 Speaker 1: I don't know, if it's just myself. I don't know 118 00:07:01,839 --> 00:07:04,000 Speaker 1: if I'm tripping. I don't know if this is just 119 00:07:04,240 --> 00:07:06,159 Speaker 1: hardcore meditation. I don't know what it is. But it 120 00:07:06,200 --> 00:07:10,920 Speaker 1: felt very much like I met God through meditation and 121 00:07:11,000 --> 00:07:15,400 Speaker 1: laughing as earlier in the day. And it's fascinating this 122 00:07:15,480 --> 00:07:19,440 Speaker 1: story because, um, you may have been participating in a 123 00:07:20,000 --> 00:07:25,320 Speaker 1: very ancient phenomenon that our species has experienced since really 124 00:07:25,360 --> 00:07:28,520 Speaker 1: since before we had language to write it down. Through 125 00:07:28,720 --> 00:07:33,800 Speaker 1: things like meditation, through certain religious rituals, even just you know, 126 00:07:33,920 --> 00:07:37,640 Speaker 1: prayer becomes a kind of meditation as well, um or 127 00:07:37,680 --> 00:07:42,360 Speaker 1: the ritualistic ingestice of certain things. People have felt that 128 00:07:42,440 --> 00:07:45,480 Speaker 1: they have not only had an experience with some sort 129 00:07:45,480 --> 00:07:49,560 Speaker 1: of higher reality or higher entity or being or God, 130 00:07:50,040 --> 00:07:56,000 Speaker 1: but this experience stays with people afterwards. So so do 131 00:07:56,040 --> 00:07:58,280 Speaker 1: you feel like when you describe this, do you feel 132 00:07:58,320 --> 00:08:02,760 Speaker 1: like part of you still vividly is experiencing it. Oh? Yeah, 133 00:08:02,880 --> 00:08:06,640 Speaker 1: it was a really jarring in a beautiful way. It 134 00:08:06,680 --> 00:08:10,680 Speaker 1: was very darring experience that I can't really explain. And 135 00:08:10,680 --> 00:08:12,080 Speaker 1: when you try to talk about it, I know it 136 00:08:12,240 --> 00:08:16,400 Speaker 1: sounds just like girl, you were high. But it I 137 00:08:16,480 --> 00:08:20,880 Speaker 1: like felt it inside of my body and fully experienced 138 00:08:22,080 --> 00:08:26,200 Speaker 1: something that I've been searching for my whole life, and 139 00:08:26,960 --> 00:08:29,960 Speaker 1: I met that. I don't know if it's the highest 140 00:08:30,120 --> 00:08:33,559 Speaker 1: version of myself, like almost like if I were to 141 00:08:34,000 --> 00:08:36,559 Speaker 1: evolve so much that I would become like the highest 142 00:08:36,679 --> 00:08:38,520 Speaker 1: version of my consciousness. I don't know if it was 143 00:08:38,600 --> 00:08:41,040 Speaker 1: that or if it was a separate being, but it 144 00:08:41,120 --> 00:08:45,120 Speaker 1: all felt very connected as well, so it made me 145 00:08:45,200 --> 00:08:47,720 Speaker 1: just feel like, oh now, I'm on this quest to 146 00:08:47,840 --> 00:08:50,080 Speaker 1: try to find as much information out as possible on 147 00:08:50,120 --> 00:08:54,560 Speaker 1: how we're all connected and how to reach that level 148 00:08:54,640 --> 00:08:58,160 Speaker 1: of being able to see how interconnected we are, and 149 00:08:58,240 --> 00:09:01,240 Speaker 1: not only with each other, but with our molecules, and 150 00:09:01,400 --> 00:09:06,600 Speaker 1: with plants, and with animals and maybe with extraterrestrials. We're 151 00:09:06,600 --> 00:09:09,400 Speaker 1: all just so connected. I think the thing that's fascinating 152 00:09:09,400 --> 00:09:13,319 Speaker 1: to about the direction that psychedelic research has gone in 153 00:09:13,760 --> 00:09:15,719 Speaker 1: is it's it's become a lot more mainstream. There's a 154 00:09:15,760 --> 00:09:17,920 Speaker 1: lot more clinical studies going into it in terms of 155 00:09:18,000 --> 00:09:21,200 Speaker 1: how it can affect things like addiction, things like depression 156 00:09:21,280 --> 00:09:23,959 Speaker 1: or PTSD, And to me, a lot of that has 157 00:09:23,960 --> 00:09:26,080 Speaker 1: to do with exactly what you're talking about. It has 158 00:09:26,120 --> 00:09:29,439 Speaker 1: this ability to give you this kind of neta perspective 159 00:09:29,840 --> 00:09:32,000 Speaker 1: and sort of free you from the trappings of your 160 00:09:32,000 --> 00:09:34,120 Speaker 1: own mind, where it's so easy to get caught up 161 00:09:34,160 --> 00:09:37,200 Speaker 1: in patterns, many of which are very bad, like tobacco 162 00:09:37,240 --> 00:09:40,720 Speaker 1: addiction or heroin addiction, or any kind of abusive behavior 163 00:09:40,840 --> 00:09:43,640 Speaker 1: or even negative self talk ak like depression. These are 164 00:09:43,679 --> 00:09:46,080 Speaker 1: just patterns, and it's easy to get caught in them 165 00:09:46,120 --> 00:09:48,360 Speaker 1: within your own mind. But when you take these types 166 00:09:48,400 --> 00:09:50,800 Speaker 1: of substances as we're gonna get into. It's sort of, 167 00:09:51,600 --> 00:09:53,920 Speaker 1: I don't know, it sounds cheesy to say expands your mind, 168 00:09:53,960 --> 00:09:56,040 Speaker 1: but it sort of allows you to look down outside 169 00:09:56,080 --> 00:09:58,959 Speaker 1: of yourself and see those connections and realize that you 170 00:09:59,000 --> 00:10:02,000 Speaker 1: are part of like a a larger fabric and you 171 00:10:02,040 --> 00:10:04,600 Speaker 1: are interconnected in that is not only the memory of 172 00:10:04,600 --> 00:10:07,720 Speaker 1: that is not only comforting, it is seemingly what helps 173 00:10:07,800 --> 00:10:11,120 Speaker 1: break those bad associations and those bad connections because you're 174 00:10:11,160 --> 00:10:12,800 Speaker 1: sort of trapped, you sort of locked in, and this 175 00:10:12,880 --> 00:10:15,240 Speaker 1: sort of like breaks you out a little bit. Yes, 176 00:10:15,440 --> 00:10:21,160 Speaker 1: and I have seen people that I know that have 177 00:10:22,040 --> 00:10:29,480 Speaker 1: experienced really beautiful and enlightening experiences on psychedelics, and it 178 00:10:29,600 --> 00:10:33,880 Speaker 1: just makes me wonder, what's the possibility with these And 179 00:10:34,000 --> 00:10:37,480 Speaker 1: I really would love for them to be studied because 180 00:10:37,520 --> 00:10:42,079 Speaker 1: as someone who suffers from PTSD, I suffer from anxiety, 181 00:10:42,160 --> 00:10:44,560 Speaker 1: I suffer from depression. And if I go to a 182 00:10:44,640 --> 00:10:47,280 Speaker 1: doctor and they prescribe me an antidepressant, I feel very 183 00:10:47,440 --> 00:10:51,360 Speaker 1: safe knowing that it's been studied and how much to take, 184 00:10:51,440 --> 00:10:53,920 Speaker 1: And it just makes me feel not anxious because I'm 185 00:10:53,920 --> 00:10:56,560 Speaker 1: already an anxious person, so I like knowing like how 186 00:10:56,640 --> 00:10:58,720 Speaker 1: much to take. It's been studied and this is like 187 00:10:58,840 --> 00:11:02,960 Speaker 1: what you're supposed to do. I somehow like that structure. 188 00:11:03,120 --> 00:11:05,880 Speaker 1: And I would hope that we can study the things 189 00:11:05,880 --> 00:11:08,520 Speaker 1: that come from the earth and natural things that have 190 00:11:08,679 --> 00:11:13,559 Speaker 1: been part of rituals, like you're saying, ancient civilizations forever, 191 00:11:14,960 --> 00:11:18,280 Speaker 1: and see how the natural things could affect our brains 192 00:11:18,280 --> 00:11:21,880 Speaker 1: and that have been affecting other people and enlightening them 193 00:11:21,400 --> 00:11:26,080 Speaker 1: and having us all kind of experience this God connection 194 00:11:26,200 --> 00:11:29,400 Speaker 1: sometimes when you like let yourself go there. And I 195 00:11:29,440 --> 00:11:32,240 Speaker 1: would love to see the antidepressant qualities if they were 196 00:11:32,280 --> 00:11:36,600 Speaker 1: studied scientifically. There are some pretty there are some pretty 197 00:11:36,640 --> 00:11:39,960 Speaker 1: compelling studies going on right now. We're we're a little 198 00:11:40,000 --> 00:11:42,840 Speaker 1: bit as a species in at least in this era 199 00:11:43,040 --> 00:11:46,480 Speaker 1: where we're in our infancy studying this well, I guess 200 00:11:46,480 --> 00:11:48,960 Speaker 1: you could say the human species is in its infancy 201 00:11:49,000 --> 00:11:52,920 Speaker 1: in many ways. But what what we found is when 202 00:11:52,960 --> 00:11:56,880 Speaker 1: I say we, I mean um, the experts, not just 203 00:11:57,040 --> 00:11:59,240 Speaker 1: Matt and all of myself. But what we what we 204 00:11:59,360 --> 00:12:05,160 Speaker 1: found is, uh, there there is this commonality, this u revelatory, 205 00:12:05,240 --> 00:12:10,640 Speaker 1: this epiphany that people have reported throughout human history. One 206 00:12:10,800 --> 00:12:14,240 Speaker 1: very beautiful modern version of this effect has nothing to 207 00:12:14,280 --> 00:12:20,120 Speaker 1: do with psychedelics. Technically, it's the the experience astronauts feel 208 00:12:20,200 --> 00:12:24,120 Speaker 1: when they view Earth from space. It's called the overview effect, 209 00:12:24,840 --> 00:12:27,480 Speaker 1: and it's yeah, and it's like, you know, it's instantly 210 00:12:27,520 --> 00:12:32,400 Speaker 1: getting zapped with some greater feeling of divinity and when 211 00:12:32,440 --> 00:12:36,680 Speaker 1: we what I love about your point about studying the 212 00:12:36,840 --> 00:12:40,160 Speaker 1: natural world. A lot of this research has been stymied, 213 00:12:40,440 --> 00:12:44,000 Speaker 1: you know, by societies of the time, by by things 214 00:12:44,040 --> 00:12:46,720 Speaker 1: like you know, political initiatives like a war on drugs. 215 00:12:47,000 --> 00:12:49,640 Speaker 1: But if we look at some psychedelics, if we look 216 00:12:49,679 --> 00:12:52,520 Speaker 1: at d m T specifically, we find that it's about 217 00:12:52,559 --> 00:12:56,800 Speaker 1: as natural as you can get because our bodies produce it. Yes, 218 00:12:56,840 --> 00:12:59,320 Speaker 1: everyone has it in our we have it in our brains. 219 00:13:00,240 --> 00:13:03,000 Speaker 1: So it's as natural as it. Like you said, it's 220 00:13:03,000 --> 00:13:05,360 Speaker 1: as natural as you could possibly get. We have it 221 00:13:05,440 --> 00:13:09,200 Speaker 1: in us. So I'm so curious on the on the 222 00:13:09,400 --> 00:13:11,679 Speaker 1: studies that you guys have read up on. I read 223 00:13:11,880 --> 00:13:15,679 Speaker 1: one thing that people that went into taking d m T, 224 00:13:16,600 --> 00:13:19,319 Speaker 1: the people that go in and do d m T 225 00:13:19,679 --> 00:13:21,200 Speaker 1: do not believe in God. They come out of the 226 00:13:21,240 --> 00:13:23,720 Speaker 1: experience and there's only ten pc of people that don't 227 00:13:23,720 --> 00:13:26,360 Speaker 1: believe in God. So there's a fifteen percent of people 228 00:13:26,440 --> 00:13:29,319 Speaker 1: that through this drug that is inside of all of 229 00:13:29,360 --> 00:13:34,680 Speaker 1: our brains by experiencing the drug, than believe in God. 230 00:13:34,760 --> 00:13:37,920 Speaker 1: I just think that that's something really interesting. It's something 231 00:13:38,000 --> 00:13:41,559 Speaker 1: I want to know more about. It's something I feel 232 00:13:41,559 --> 00:13:43,120 Speaker 1: like we should all want to know more about. I 233 00:13:43,160 --> 00:13:46,520 Speaker 1: would love something that would prove that there's God and 234 00:13:46,559 --> 00:13:49,240 Speaker 1: make us all feel more connected and more empathetic towards 235 00:13:49,280 --> 00:13:52,360 Speaker 1: each other and maybe treat each other better. Oh gosh, yes, 236 00:13:52,640 --> 00:13:54,199 Speaker 1: I mean, I mean for me, like I don't believe 237 00:13:54,240 --> 00:13:56,960 Speaker 1: in the Christian God, I don't believe in like Jova, 238 00:13:57,360 --> 00:14:00,640 Speaker 1: but I believe in the something and and and that 239 00:14:00,679 --> 00:14:03,560 Speaker 1: experience for me largely has to do with things that 240 00:14:03,600 --> 00:14:06,720 Speaker 1: I remember from past experiences, like what we're talking about. 241 00:14:06,800 --> 00:14:09,400 Speaker 1: I'm not gonna lie. I mean, it really doesn't. And again, 242 00:14:09,440 --> 00:14:12,200 Speaker 1: just really quick disclaimer to We're not doing an episode 243 00:14:12,440 --> 00:14:16,240 Speaker 1: saying go try drugs. This is all about personal choice, 244 00:14:16,360 --> 00:14:18,840 Speaker 1: is all about the research behind it and the way 245 00:14:18,880 --> 00:14:22,240 Speaker 1: it kind of weaves into culture and society, all of 246 00:14:22,280 --> 00:14:24,920 Speaker 1: these big picture things. So it's definitely not us saying 247 00:14:25,000 --> 00:14:27,720 Speaker 1: go out there and try all the psychedelics. But there, 248 00:14:27,760 --> 00:14:30,280 Speaker 1: you know, it is becoming much more mainstream. And another 249 00:14:30,320 --> 00:14:32,360 Speaker 1: study that I wanted to bring up is done by 250 00:14:32,440 --> 00:14:35,880 Speaker 1: Johns Hopkins UM and they did kind of a like 251 00:14:36,120 --> 00:14:40,040 Speaker 1: called a randomized clinical trial of twenty four participants. Actually 252 00:14:40,080 --> 00:14:42,680 Speaker 1: mentioned this on a recent news episode of the podcast 253 00:14:43,280 --> 00:14:47,160 Speaker 1: with Major Depressive Disorder UM and they those who received 254 00:14:47,280 --> 00:14:52,360 Speaker 1: quote immediate psilocybin assisted therapy compared with delayed showed improvement 255 00:14:52,520 --> 00:14:57,720 Speaker 1: in blinded clinical rather rather clinician radar assessed depression severity. 256 00:14:57,920 --> 00:15:00,560 Speaker 1: In other words, the ones that got it right way, 257 00:15:00,800 --> 00:15:03,480 Speaker 1: we're less depressed than the ones that either got placebo 258 00:15:03,640 --> 00:15:07,640 Speaker 1: or got it delayed. So studies like this are leading 259 00:15:07,680 --> 00:15:10,400 Speaker 1: to things like I p o s of companies that 260 00:15:10,440 --> 00:15:12,520 Speaker 1: are trying to like get you know, f D a 261 00:15:12,600 --> 00:15:16,280 Speaker 1: approval for psilocybin based treatments or even um what's the 262 00:15:16,320 --> 00:15:19,760 Speaker 1: word synthesizing psilocybin that can be then mass produced and 263 00:15:19,920 --> 00:15:22,880 Speaker 1: used to whether it's micro dosing or whatever it is, 264 00:15:23,040 --> 00:15:25,960 Speaker 1: to actually help people. Uh So, I think that can't 265 00:15:25,960 --> 00:15:27,960 Speaker 1: be denied. And I think it's sort of missing the 266 00:15:27,960 --> 00:15:30,400 Speaker 1: point when people demonize things like this or the idea 267 00:15:30,440 --> 00:15:31,920 Speaker 1: of the war on drugs and all that. To me, 268 00:15:32,000 --> 00:15:35,920 Speaker 1: it's more about big Pharma not liking this stuff same. 269 00:15:36,200 --> 00:15:37,880 Speaker 1: Oh my god, I was going to say that, but 270 00:15:37,920 --> 00:15:42,040 Speaker 1: I wasn't sure if I was allowed to say that, Okay, 271 00:15:42,400 --> 00:15:46,480 Speaker 1: because I think that um, big Pharma obviously is making 272 00:15:46,520 --> 00:15:49,320 Speaker 1: a fuck ton of money off of people being depressed, 273 00:15:49,440 --> 00:15:54,240 Speaker 1: being anxious and needing medication. And what would happen if 274 00:15:54,240 --> 00:15:57,080 Speaker 1: the medication was coming from the earth and inside of 275 00:15:57,160 --> 00:16:00,520 Speaker 1: our own brains. I think, a it's take a lot 276 00:16:00,560 --> 00:16:04,000 Speaker 1: of money away from people and be once you connect two. 277 00:16:04,960 --> 00:16:07,120 Speaker 1: I really hate the word god. I think there's so 278 00:16:07,160 --> 00:16:09,240 Speaker 1: much baggage with it. So I'm with you. It's more 279 00:16:09,360 --> 00:16:13,200 Speaker 1: just like your higher consciousness and the connection of all 280 00:16:13,240 --> 00:16:15,240 Speaker 1: of us in the same way that you're saying, like 281 00:16:16,480 --> 00:16:19,480 Speaker 1: when astronauts go to space, how it's just we're all connected, 282 00:16:19,520 --> 00:16:22,120 Speaker 1: We're all part of this. I like calling it the universe, 283 00:16:22,240 --> 00:16:24,760 Speaker 1: that seems but I think to even know what been 284 00:16:24,840 --> 00:16:28,160 Speaker 1: saying about that astronaut experience, that's like literally seeing your 285 00:16:28,160 --> 00:16:31,440 Speaker 1: place in the universe. And to me, that's the connection 286 00:16:31,480 --> 00:16:34,120 Speaker 1: that I feel, you know, with like like time and 287 00:16:34,560 --> 00:16:37,280 Speaker 1: in history and the stars. You know, that's just the 288 00:16:37,320 --> 00:16:40,160 Speaker 1: word I like to use the same. And we'll be 289 00:16:40,280 --> 00:16:45,160 Speaker 1: back diving further into this conversation. Afterword from our sponsor, 290 00:16:51,200 --> 00:16:53,720 Speaker 1: and we're back. Let's dive right back into our conversation 291 00:16:53,760 --> 00:16:56,600 Speaker 1: with Kesha. I'd like to take it back um to 292 00:16:56,760 --> 00:17:01,200 Speaker 1: D and T because the research is here, but it's 293 00:17:01,200 --> 00:17:03,760 Speaker 1: not to the point. You know, Kesh, A lot of 294 00:17:03,800 --> 00:17:06,400 Speaker 1: the folks in our audience today are in the exact 295 00:17:06,480 --> 00:17:09,720 Speaker 1: same place you are, and candidly that I am where 296 00:17:09,760 --> 00:17:12,920 Speaker 1: where the ideas look. I would love for there to 297 00:17:13,000 --> 00:17:15,800 Speaker 1: be cures to these things. Big Pharma does sell services, 298 00:17:15,960 --> 00:17:19,480 Speaker 1: not cures. That's their business model, but I would love 299 00:17:19,520 --> 00:17:21,720 Speaker 1: to have these solutions. Might I want. I want the 300 00:17:21,760 --> 00:17:24,040 Speaker 1: research to be there. You know, I wanted to want 301 00:17:24,080 --> 00:17:26,280 Speaker 1: it to be okay. I wanted to I want don't 302 00:17:26,400 --> 00:17:28,680 Speaker 1: I know, as much of like a rule breaker as 303 00:17:28,720 --> 00:17:31,480 Speaker 1: I'm supposed to be. I don't want to ingest some 304 00:17:31,560 --> 00:17:34,320 Speaker 1: ship that hasn't been studied. I'm sorry, and I just 305 00:17:34,520 --> 00:17:38,200 Speaker 1: wish that I wish it was just a little bit 306 00:17:38,200 --> 00:17:43,240 Speaker 1: more accepted, so I could know what's okay and what 307 00:17:43,359 --> 00:17:45,439 Speaker 1: would be helpful for things that I suffer from. And 308 00:17:45,520 --> 00:17:50,760 Speaker 1: also it's worth mentioning I think that some of these medicines, 309 00:17:51,000 --> 00:17:55,320 Speaker 1: these plant based medicines, might encourage higher consciousness, they might 310 00:17:55,480 --> 00:17:59,080 Speaker 1: encourage I think they do encourage enlightenment. And I don't 311 00:17:59,160 --> 00:18:02,080 Speaker 1: think enlighten it is good for a big farm of business, 312 00:18:02,080 --> 00:18:04,520 Speaker 1: And I don't think it's good for capitalism. And I 313 00:18:04,600 --> 00:18:08,919 Speaker 1: don't think it's good for politics. Like I think it's 314 00:18:08,960 --> 00:18:12,720 Speaker 1: a little bit of a scary concept for us all 315 00:18:12,800 --> 00:18:16,040 Speaker 1: to be enlightened, because then we're not going to be 316 00:18:16,119 --> 00:18:23,840 Speaker 1: sitting on our phones, like depressed, shopping and like for that. 317 00:18:23,880 --> 00:18:27,919 Speaker 1: And it's so right, it is so right that I 318 00:18:28,119 --> 00:18:32,520 Speaker 1: really truly think that enlightenment is not good for politics, 319 00:18:32,760 --> 00:18:38,000 Speaker 1: and and I think that some of these natural medicines 320 00:18:38,760 --> 00:18:41,080 Speaker 1: may or may not. But through studying and reading about 321 00:18:41,080 --> 00:18:44,879 Speaker 1: the studies, it seems like they are encouraging people to 322 00:18:44,920 --> 00:18:48,159 Speaker 1: feel more connected and finding some sort of higher power. 323 00:18:48,400 --> 00:18:53,119 Speaker 1: And I don't think that's necessarily a good thing for 324 00:18:53,160 --> 00:18:58,200 Speaker 1: a lot of business. A new era of happiness is 325 00:18:58,760 --> 00:19:03,000 Speaker 1: not is not what a status quo of unhappiness seeks, right, 326 00:19:03,119 --> 00:19:07,879 Speaker 1: And especially there's a if there's a profit motive involved. 327 00:19:07,920 --> 00:19:11,640 Speaker 1: That's another big deal. Is unless unless some of these 328 00:19:11,680 --> 00:19:16,359 Speaker 1: substances are derived or synthesized in such a way that 329 00:19:16,400 --> 00:19:20,040 Speaker 1: they can be patented then no one can really own them, 330 00:19:20,280 --> 00:19:23,080 Speaker 1: which I think is a huge problem for some of 331 00:19:23,119 --> 00:19:26,520 Speaker 1: those corporate interests. Yeah, of course there isn't an interest 332 00:19:26,600 --> 00:19:28,439 Speaker 1: if you can get them from the earth and in 333 00:19:28,440 --> 00:19:32,560 Speaker 1: your brain, even just through like deep meditation, like and 334 00:19:32,640 --> 00:19:35,920 Speaker 1: you can find enlightenment. I don't think it's as encouraged 335 00:19:35,960 --> 00:19:40,120 Speaker 1: as maybe taking medicine from you know, whichever big farm 336 00:19:40,160 --> 00:19:44,080 Speaker 1: a company. And that's sad to me because it's it's 337 00:19:44,080 --> 00:19:47,199 Speaker 1: like at our fingertips as animals on this earth, like 338 00:19:47,440 --> 00:19:51,719 Speaker 1: we could be so it could be so easily accessible 339 00:19:52,000 --> 00:19:55,840 Speaker 1: to things that can help with PTSD and depression and 340 00:19:55,880 --> 00:19:57,960 Speaker 1: anxiety and things that I think a lot of people 341 00:19:58,000 --> 00:20:01,080 Speaker 1: these days suffer from. Okay, I mean, look the fucking 342 00:20:01,080 --> 00:20:03,760 Speaker 1: world right now, right, it's twenty twenty one. If you're 343 00:20:03,760 --> 00:20:09,440 Speaker 1: not depressed, are you not paying attention right? Well? Yeah, 344 00:20:09,520 --> 00:20:11,359 Speaker 1: I want to get back really quickly just to the 345 00:20:11,359 --> 00:20:13,479 Speaker 1: the underlying science of some of this stuff, just so 346 00:20:13,520 --> 00:20:16,119 Speaker 1: we understand what we're talking about and what the effect 347 00:20:16,160 --> 00:20:19,280 Speaker 1: psychedelics actually have on your brain. And I think this 348 00:20:19,359 --> 00:20:22,359 Speaker 1: is a very important thing. We've talked about serotonin and 349 00:20:22,400 --> 00:20:25,480 Speaker 1: how important and how important that is in the human brain, 350 00:20:25,520 --> 00:20:30,119 Speaker 1: in our lives and what psychedelics do. When you're experiencing 351 00:20:30,600 --> 00:20:35,159 Speaker 1: as an individual the psychedelic effect, let's say, what's actually 352 00:20:35,160 --> 00:20:38,480 Speaker 1: happening is your serotonin to a receptor is being targeted, 353 00:20:39,160 --> 00:20:43,919 Speaker 1: and then essentially sections of your brain are communicating with 354 00:20:43,960 --> 00:20:47,639 Speaker 1: other sections that generally wouldn't be communicating with one another, 355 00:20:48,119 --> 00:20:51,280 Speaker 1: and that's why you're going to get strange sensations like 356 00:20:51,320 --> 00:20:55,160 Speaker 1: maybe seeing something, maybe hearing something. The hallucinations that generally 357 00:20:55,160 --> 00:20:58,680 Speaker 1: occur if you're looking at it on a biochemical level 358 00:20:59,080 --> 00:21:02,040 Speaker 1: of you know, is firing in your brain. That's what's occurring. 359 00:21:02,800 --> 00:21:06,760 Speaker 1: The weird thing is that those new connections that are 360 00:21:06,800 --> 00:21:10,480 Speaker 1: made after you're coming down from your trip or your 361 00:21:10,800 --> 00:21:14,399 Speaker 1: the feeling of that, you know, feeling really good on 362 00:21:14,400 --> 00:21:18,600 Speaker 1: one of these substances, your brain essentially has reset many 363 00:21:18,680 --> 00:21:23,280 Speaker 1: connections back to a more baseline level um, which is 364 00:21:23,320 --> 00:21:27,320 Speaker 1: a pre addiction level too. That's and I love the 365 00:21:27,359 --> 00:21:31,240 Speaker 1: point that you're making there. This is to me candidly, 366 00:21:31,280 --> 00:21:33,800 Speaker 1: one of the most amazing things about these experiences that 367 00:21:33,840 --> 00:21:37,240 Speaker 1: gets reported is synesthesia. You know, a certain amount of 368 00:21:37,960 --> 00:21:42,720 Speaker 1: synesthesia is when your um is when your sensory inputs 369 00:21:42,760 --> 00:21:46,000 Speaker 1: are switched. So like I have low level synesthesia, so 370 00:21:46,000 --> 00:21:49,639 Speaker 1: sounds have textures for me, but for other people, um, 371 00:21:49,800 --> 00:21:55,600 Speaker 1: sounds have colors. Like the writer nabokov Um was convinced 372 00:21:55,880 --> 00:21:59,080 Speaker 1: that every sound in the languages he spoke had a 373 00:21:59,160 --> 00:22:03,080 Speaker 1: color and a exture. And when what Matt's talking about 374 00:22:03,119 --> 00:22:08,680 Speaker 1: here with those pathways getting reset, uh, sometimes the sensory 375 00:22:08,760 --> 00:22:11,840 Speaker 1: inputs get reset to and you hear you know, you 376 00:22:11,880 --> 00:22:14,560 Speaker 1: hear the word los Angeles and you're like, wow, the 377 00:22:14,640 --> 00:22:18,760 Speaker 1: word los Angeles smells like toast. That's crazy. Oh wait, 378 00:22:18,760 --> 00:22:21,760 Speaker 1: am I having a seizure? Okay, now, it's just synesthesia. 379 00:22:22,400 --> 00:22:25,399 Speaker 1: And also it's often described or attributed to artistic types 380 00:22:25,960 --> 00:22:29,159 Speaker 1: who have uh, those those kind of crossed wires. In 381 00:22:29,240 --> 00:22:31,960 Speaker 1: terms of being able to experience sound as texture, it 382 00:22:32,359 --> 00:22:34,920 Speaker 1: kind of predisposes you to maybe thinking of being able 383 00:22:34,960 --> 00:22:37,480 Speaker 1: to almost like paint with sound, you know, or create 384 00:22:37,720 --> 00:22:40,400 Speaker 1: sonic textures, because that's just sort of how you interpret 385 00:22:40,440 --> 00:22:43,600 Speaker 1: them differently than somebody that maybe has the regular wirings. 386 00:22:44,119 --> 00:22:47,560 Speaker 1: I may have this because when I write songs, I 387 00:22:47,720 --> 00:22:51,840 Speaker 1: usually think of them in like a color scheme. I'm 388 00:22:51,920 --> 00:22:54,400 Speaker 1: very visual, so and then when I sing sometimes I'll 389 00:22:54,400 --> 00:22:57,440 Speaker 1: just accidentally close my eyes and realize I've closing eyes 390 00:22:57,480 --> 00:23:01,480 Speaker 1: and single like the emotions go with certain colors. So 391 00:23:01,640 --> 00:23:05,639 Speaker 1: is that yes, that is a type of that is 392 00:23:05,640 --> 00:23:08,800 Speaker 1: a type of synesthesia. Um. And this is you know, 393 00:23:08,840 --> 00:23:13,000 Speaker 1: as Neal said, this is something that's often associated with 394 00:23:13,000 --> 00:23:17,280 Speaker 1: with artists, with musicians, with sculptors. UM. It's something that 395 00:23:17,400 --> 00:23:20,640 Speaker 1: people have who have never thought of this might experience 396 00:23:21,080 --> 00:23:26,160 Speaker 1: when they are when they have ingested or encountered one 397 00:23:26,200 --> 00:23:29,160 Speaker 1: of these substances that we're talking about. And the thing 398 00:23:29,240 --> 00:23:32,880 Speaker 1: that the thing that's the most irritating about this, I'll 399 00:23:32,920 --> 00:23:35,360 Speaker 1: say it once, I'll leave it alone. There were studies 400 00:23:35,400 --> 00:23:38,400 Speaker 1: on this kind of stuff in the sixties and seventies, 401 00:23:38,480 --> 00:23:42,560 Speaker 1: and those studies, yes, exactly, yes, yes, And and those 402 00:23:42,560 --> 00:23:46,479 Speaker 1: studies got shut down because you know, there's always a 403 00:23:46,480 --> 00:23:50,320 Speaker 1: war on some sort of idea and uh. And if 404 00:23:50,359 --> 00:23:53,639 Speaker 1: those studies had not been shut down, we could have 405 00:23:53,800 --> 00:23:57,920 Speaker 1: made so much more progress already, I know, in terms 406 00:23:57,920 --> 00:24:01,760 Speaker 1: of treating PTSD and depression, anxiety UM and all these 407 00:24:01,800 --> 00:24:06,040 Speaker 1: troubling conditions. But yeah, I I know a lot of 408 00:24:06,040 --> 00:24:08,040 Speaker 1: our listeners are going to be thinking about that. I 409 00:24:08,040 --> 00:24:10,120 Speaker 1: would say to those of us listening along at home, 410 00:24:10,520 --> 00:24:13,639 Speaker 1: you know, don't don't lose too much time worrying about 411 00:24:13,640 --> 00:24:16,200 Speaker 1: what could have happened, because we can't really change the past, 412 00:24:16,240 --> 00:24:18,880 Speaker 1: but we can change the future, and we can make 413 00:24:18,880 --> 00:24:22,359 Speaker 1: a difference for not just ourselves, but the generations coming 414 00:24:22,400 --> 00:24:26,240 Speaker 1: after us. And I'm so glad that so many doctors agree. 415 00:24:26,280 --> 00:24:29,720 Speaker 1: When we dive down into the science, here we see 416 00:24:30,520 --> 00:24:34,720 Speaker 1: we see very strange commonalities, things that don't usually happen 417 00:24:34,760 --> 00:24:38,240 Speaker 1: in medicine, you know. Speaking of diving down into science, 418 00:24:38,280 --> 00:24:40,720 Speaker 1: I think one of my favorite deep, deep, slightly deep 419 00:24:40,720 --> 00:24:46,119 Speaker 1: cut psychedelic experimentations was by John C. Lily, involving bottlenose 420 00:24:46,200 --> 00:24:50,880 Speaker 1: dolphins and um sensory deprivation tanks and inspired the films 421 00:24:50,920 --> 00:24:53,080 Speaker 1: The Day of the Dolphin and Altered States. And he 422 00:24:53,160 --> 00:24:57,639 Speaker 1: believed that through LSD he could communicate with dolphins like psychically. 423 00:24:58,000 --> 00:25:00,320 Speaker 1: So that kind of thinking has been a down for 424 00:25:00,640 --> 00:25:03,240 Speaker 1: a long time, this idea that this opens you up 425 00:25:03,280 --> 00:25:05,760 Speaker 1: and tunes you into frequencies you wouldn't otherwise be able 426 00:25:05,800 --> 00:25:08,959 Speaker 1: to experience. And yes, he came off as a bit 427 00:25:09,000 --> 00:25:11,040 Speaker 1: of a quack. He even there was I think there 428 00:25:11,119 --> 00:25:14,159 Speaker 1: was some talk of some low key dolphin sex. Perhaps 429 00:25:14,840 --> 00:25:19,800 Speaker 1: this is the dolphin sex guy yeah, the dolphin. It 430 00:25:18,880 --> 00:25:24,840 Speaker 1: wasn't it assistant? Oh well, okay, but he with them 431 00:25:24,840 --> 00:25:30,639 Speaker 1: in a flooded apartment. Basically, who is this Lily? Was 432 00:25:30,680 --> 00:25:34,840 Speaker 1: his name? John ce Lily? Okay? Can I just tell 433 00:25:34,880 --> 00:25:38,159 Speaker 1: you a funny story that has nothing to do I 434 00:25:38,359 --> 00:25:40,400 Speaker 1: have to do with When I was on tour, which 435 00:25:40,440 --> 00:25:43,760 Speaker 1: I missed dearly, but we were all playing like a 436 00:25:44,520 --> 00:25:47,959 Speaker 1: game on the bus, A couple of my texts were 437 00:25:47,960 --> 00:25:49,960 Speaker 1: a little inebriated, I must say. They had a couple 438 00:25:49,960 --> 00:25:53,360 Speaker 1: of beers. And because of this story about this man, 439 00:25:54,400 --> 00:26:02,440 Speaker 1: my tech bought the website Dolphins Sex Man. So if 440 00:26:02,480 --> 00:26:04,920 Speaker 1: you go to that website, it costs cents to buy, 441 00:26:05,720 --> 00:26:09,000 Speaker 1: and that's owned by my guitar tech. How is the 442 00:26:09,080 --> 00:26:10,919 Speaker 1: how is the stock on that du r L not 443 00:26:11,080 --> 00:26:13,640 Speaker 1: higher than that? By now, I mean, come on, that's 444 00:26:13,680 --> 00:26:16,240 Speaker 1: a genius name. But no, no, it's true. And like 445 00:26:16,320 --> 00:26:19,040 Speaker 1: there were other fringe experiments like this going on. I 446 00:26:19,040 --> 00:26:21,959 Speaker 1: think Timothy Leary is the is the big the biggie, 447 00:26:22,280 --> 00:26:25,280 Speaker 1: But it all still was kind of wrapped up in 448 00:26:25,320 --> 00:26:28,679 Speaker 1: this like sort of wild West nous of the sixties, 449 00:26:28,760 --> 00:26:31,679 Speaker 1: whereas now it's a lot more clinical and it's a 450 00:26:31,840 --> 00:26:33,800 Speaker 1: in a good way, not not the way people use 451 00:26:33,800 --> 00:26:36,200 Speaker 1: clinical as a bad word. But and I think that's 452 00:26:36,240 --> 00:26:38,639 Speaker 1: really fascinating, and it's also fascinating that it's taken this 453 00:26:38,760 --> 00:26:42,040 Speaker 1: long for it to kind of come back around. You know, well, 454 00:26:42,040 --> 00:26:48,080 Speaker 1: I just think that it's probably a threat to other 455 00:26:48,240 --> 00:26:52,439 Speaker 1: kinds of medicine. And I don't know that, but it 456 00:26:52,600 --> 00:26:56,800 Speaker 1: seems like, why wouldn't we explore what is naturally occurring 457 00:26:56,800 --> 00:26:59,280 Speaker 1: in our brains and on the earth if it is 458 00:26:59,720 --> 00:27:02,400 Speaker 1: see mainly helping people, And I just I just would 459 00:27:02,440 --> 00:27:04,840 Speaker 1: like to see where the research goes. Like I said earlier, 460 00:27:04,960 --> 00:27:07,880 Speaker 1: I'm not, like you said, not encouraging people to go 461 00:27:08,040 --> 00:27:10,920 Speaker 1: like trip balls right now. I don't encourage that will 462 00:27:10,960 --> 00:27:13,960 Speaker 1: probably be a terrible idea right now, But I think 463 00:27:14,080 --> 00:27:17,680 Speaker 1: that I would just be curious what these natural substances 464 00:27:17,720 --> 00:27:21,680 Speaker 1: could bring into our consciousness because it seems like overwhelmingly 465 00:27:21,800 --> 00:27:24,720 Speaker 1: so the research has shown that has been pretty positive. 466 00:27:25,840 --> 00:27:28,600 Speaker 1: And one thing Ben you found was that, like studies 467 00:27:28,600 --> 00:27:32,240 Speaker 1: have shown that psilocybin mushrooms in particular are about the 468 00:27:32,280 --> 00:27:38,080 Speaker 1: safest thing you can do. Yeah, there's there's no One 469 00:27:38,080 --> 00:27:43,160 Speaker 1: of the oddest things is that for many, many drugs, 470 00:27:43,160 --> 00:27:47,640 Speaker 1: many substances called drugs. There is a overdose threshold, right, 471 00:27:47,680 --> 00:27:52,720 Speaker 1: and psilocybin apparently doesn't have that or it has not 472 00:27:52,840 --> 00:27:56,000 Speaker 1: been reached. In the entirety of human history. No one 473 00:27:56,040 --> 00:28:00,280 Speaker 1: has managed to overdose. Uh in like a physics lead 474 00:28:00,359 --> 00:28:04,520 Speaker 1: delatorious way on this stuff. It's um it's strange because 475 00:28:04,560 --> 00:28:09,800 Speaker 1: I think the experiments with communication with non human intelligences 476 00:28:10,200 --> 00:28:13,320 Speaker 1: in the case of dolphins and such, I think that 477 00:28:13,480 --> 00:28:18,119 Speaker 1: is an iteration of the larger and older belief that 478 00:28:18,320 --> 00:28:22,200 Speaker 1: we are meeting some sort of entity or people. Are 479 00:28:22,200 --> 00:28:25,639 Speaker 1: people are meeting something? And I love your point earlier, Kesha, 480 00:28:25,640 --> 00:28:28,280 Speaker 1: where you said, you know, is it a higher version 481 00:28:28,600 --> 00:28:31,480 Speaker 1: of oneself? Is it? You know? Are we having a 482 00:28:31,560 --> 00:28:37,679 Speaker 1: more honest, real self realization? Or as multiple cultures have argued, 483 00:28:38,360 --> 00:28:41,160 Speaker 1: is is there something there? That's when that's when we 484 00:28:41,200 --> 00:28:45,320 Speaker 1: see these weird commonalities come into play. It is. It 485 00:28:45,480 --> 00:28:48,800 Speaker 1: is nothing short of bizarre for so many things like 486 00:28:48,880 --> 00:28:52,800 Speaker 1: this to be reported by different people from different backgrounds 487 00:28:52,880 --> 00:28:57,000 Speaker 1: in such a similar way, and and their cultural lens, 488 00:28:57,040 --> 00:28:59,240 Speaker 1: you know, changes it a little. You'll have people say 489 00:28:59,760 --> 00:29:02,480 Speaker 1: I'm met machinals, where I met an angel or I 490 00:29:02,560 --> 00:29:06,120 Speaker 1: met aliens? And what I what I think is so 491 00:29:07,280 --> 00:29:12,120 Speaker 1: fascinating about this is not only are they describing the 492 00:29:12,320 --> 00:29:16,480 Speaker 1: same kind of UM thing, but they're describing the same 493 00:29:16,560 --> 00:29:19,760 Speaker 1: kind of experience. They're not just witnessing or beholding something 494 00:29:19,800 --> 00:29:24,040 Speaker 1: they feel, they are in conversation, in communion with it 495 00:29:24,200 --> 00:29:27,040 Speaker 1: and um and just just for of course, like a 496 00:29:27,080 --> 00:29:31,840 Speaker 1: full disclaimer when we're talking about these studies, none of 497 00:29:31,880 --> 00:29:36,080 Speaker 1: these people were just given LSD or given magic mushrooms. 498 00:29:36,080 --> 00:29:39,120 Speaker 1: That it was part of a monitor like treatment program 499 00:29:39,120 --> 00:29:41,080 Speaker 1: where you checked in and you had therapy and you 500 00:29:41,160 --> 00:29:44,440 Speaker 1: had group sessions. So please don't think we're talking about 501 00:29:44,480 --> 00:29:48,360 Speaker 1: mad scientists just you know, pulling an m k altra 502 00:29:48,480 --> 00:29:51,440 Speaker 1: on people. They were like fake shamans. Those are also 503 00:29:52,840 --> 00:29:55,479 Speaker 1: nightmare just people that claim to be Samans that aren't. 504 00:29:55,600 --> 00:29:58,760 Speaker 1: Like there are real shamans though like when I was 505 00:29:58,800 --> 00:30:03,400 Speaker 1: in Peru, I did not participate, but they there's like 506 00:30:03,440 --> 00:30:07,760 Speaker 1: a whole ayahuasca community where you can go into the 507 00:30:07,840 --> 00:30:10,080 Speaker 1: jungle and take ayahuasca. Now I am too much of 508 00:30:10,080 --> 00:30:13,600 Speaker 1: a pussy because it sounds terrifying and kind of horrible 509 00:30:13,840 --> 00:30:18,240 Speaker 1: because you barf and poop everywhere, and I was just like, no, 510 00:30:18,840 --> 00:30:23,400 Speaker 1: but I have heard and read that, and you know, 511 00:30:23,600 --> 00:30:26,920 Speaker 1: people I've spoken to have said it changed their life. 512 00:30:27,240 --> 00:30:30,040 Speaker 1: So I just would love to see the research on it, 513 00:30:30,040 --> 00:30:32,000 Speaker 1: because again going back to I'm kind of a pussy, 514 00:30:32,120 --> 00:30:34,160 Speaker 1: I just like I want to know the research about it. 515 00:30:34,640 --> 00:30:36,960 Speaker 1: The idea of a bad trip, too, I think, is 516 00:30:37,000 --> 00:30:38,760 Speaker 1: like a thing that that sort of has this like 517 00:30:39,120 --> 00:30:42,000 Speaker 1: way to it. But sometimes I think what you're describing, 518 00:30:42,240 --> 00:30:44,360 Speaker 1: you know, could be almost like an on purpose bad 519 00:30:44,400 --> 00:30:47,280 Speaker 1: trip that forces you to confront bad ship that's in 520 00:30:47,320 --> 00:30:49,480 Speaker 1: your mind, you know. And I think that's where a 521 00:30:49,480 --> 00:30:51,360 Speaker 1: bad trip comes from, is where your head is at 522 00:30:51,400 --> 00:30:54,160 Speaker 1: before you ingest said substance, and if you're dealing with 523 00:30:54,200 --> 00:30:56,720 Speaker 1: demons that's going to come out and manifest itself in 524 00:30:56,760 --> 00:30:59,000 Speaker 1: your experience, and then you have a shaman who can 525 00:30:59,080 --> 00:31:02,800 Speaker 1: walk you through it and literally slay those psychic demons 526 00:31:02,840 --> 00:31:06,560 Speaker 1: that manifest themselves in quote unquote a bad trip. So um, 527 00:31:06,600 --> 00:31:09,160 Speaker 1: I think you know it's not. It's all about the 528 00:31:09,200 --> 00:31:12,520 Speaker 1: individual brain and the individual human and what they're going 529 00:31:12,560 --> 00:31:15,160 Speaker 1: through and what they're experiencing as to what happens in 530 00:31:15,160 --> 00:31:17,720 Speaker 1: one of these types of situations. Oh and we're gonna 531 00:31:17,760 --> 00:31:20,200 Speaker 1: take just a quick break after that and we'll return 532 00:31:20,280 --> 00:31:29,440 Speaker 1: in a moment and we're back. I have a secular 533 00:31:29,480 --> 00:31:32,320 Speaker 1: reason why the I believe the rituals are important. If 534 00:31:32,320 --> 00:31:35,520 Speaker 1: you're listening and you don't believe in any um, any 535 00:31:35,680 --> 00:31:38,160 Speaker 1: higher plane, or any kind of spiritual stuff. If you're 536 00:31:38,160 --> 00:31:41,880 Speaker 1: a very secular person, then consider the two main factors 537 00:31:41,920 --> 00:31:46,240 Speaker 1: of psychedelic experiences are seen and setting. Uh. Seen gives 538 00:31:46,360 --> 00:31:49,280 Speaker 1: kind of your external environment. We could even call setting 539 00:31:49,400 --> 00:31:53,120 Speaker 1: your mental environment. And so when you have a ritual 540 00:31:53,360 --> 00:31:57,560 Speaker 1: like ayahuasca is, those rituals are not really meant to 541 00:31:57,560 --> 00:32:00,960 Speaker 1: be fun. For my understanding, it's supposed to be an important, 542 00:32:01,000 --> 00:32:04,880 Speaker 1: impactful thing and not entirely pleasant. Because I think I 543 00:32:04,880 --> 00:32:07,120 Speaker 1: think you're right about the barfing, which was a big 544 00:32:08,240 --> 00:32:11,440 Speaker 1: for me to According to friend of mine, it was 545 00:32:11,480 --> 00:32:15,440 Speaker 1: like a very unpleasant experience, but the afterwards just felt 546 00:32:15,640 --> 00:32:22,240 Speaker 1: so much, um like spiritually and spiritually lighter and a 547 00:32:22,280 --> 00:32:25,640 Speaker 1: little bit more free of the demons that they had 548 00:32:25,680 --> 00:32:28,720 Speaker 1: been experiencing, you know, for a large part of their life. 549 00:32:28,760 --> 00:32:32,080 Speaker 1: And I think it's like a purging of those demons, 550 00:32:32,080 --> 00:32:35,440 Speaker 1: like you were saying, at least to them, it was yeah, 551 00:32:35,720 --> 00:32:38,680 Speaker 1: that makes sense, And so we see, we see science 552 00:32:38,920 --> 00:32:43,240 Speaker 1: supporting this. The Journal of psycho Pharmacology did a study 553 00:32:43,360 --> 00:32:47,240 Speaker 1: with over two thousand, five hundred people about d m T, 554 00:32:47,800 --> 00:32:51,960 Speaker 1: you know, the active ingredient ayahuasca, and that study, they 555 00:32:51,960 --> 00:32:55,400 Speaker 1: didn't get rookies. They only took people who had done 556 00:32:55,840 --> 00:32:58,160 Speaker 1: ingested d m T in some form like a Baker's 557 00:32:58,200 --> 00:33:01,320 Speaker 1: dozen times throughout their lives, which my opinion is a lot, 558 00:33:01,360 --> 00:33:04,400 Speaker 1: but you know, I'm not an expert on that one. Uh. 559 00:33:04,440 --> 00:33:09,320 Speaker 1: What they found was that of people had a profound 560 00:33:09,600 --> 00:33:14,080 Speaker 1: and lasting emotional response to your point, it they weren't. 561 00:33:14,120 --> 00:33:16,960 Speaker 1: It's not like they It's not like if somebody drinks 562 00:33:16,960 --> 00:33:19,320 Speaker 1: booze and they get drunk for a night. These people 563 00:33:19,520 --> 00:33:23,320 Speaker 1: something changed about their mentality that stayed with them. Uh. 564 00:33:23,360 --> 00:33:28,160 Speaker 1: They felt they were felt they were in a meta reality. 565 00:33:28,200 --> 00:33:30,600 Speaker 1: They had broken through the matrix. They were experiencing the 566 00:33:30,680 --> 00:33:37,320 Speaker 1: overview effect, and they all, like described They all said 567 00:33:37,360 --> 00:33:40,320 Speaker 1: they felt like they met something, even if it was 568 00:33:40,400 --> 00:33:43,920 Speaker 1: just themselves. Which is the weirdest part because you know 569 00:33:44,000 --> 00:33:47,080 Speaker 1: that leads some fringe writers to say, well, what if 570 00:33:47,920 --> 00:33:51,080 Speaker 1: these things we've been calling aliens and all these stories 571 00:33:51,120 --> 00:33:55,160 Speaker 1: of UFOs throughout generations, what if those are just somehow 572 00:33:55,200 --> 00:33:58,880 Speaker 1: the same thing we've encountered during intense periods of meditation, 573 00:33:59,040 --> 00:34:03,120 Speaker 1: or maybe intense areats of psychic turmoil, or maybe when 574 00:34:03,160 --> 00:34:07,320 Speaker 1: there's a ritual ingestion these substances, I I don't know, 575 00:34:07,400 --> 00:34:11,600 Speaker 1: it's exciting because again, this doesn't really happen in scientific research. 576 00:34:11,719 --> 00:34:14,520 Speaker 1: There's usually much more of an outlier. Well, and there's 577 00:34:14,640 --> 00:34:17,520 Speaker 1: I like that there's a spiritual connection in science. I 578 00:34:17,600 --> 00:34:21,120 Speaker 1: love it when they converge. I love when you go 579 00:34:21,160 --> 00:34:24,960 Speaker 1: into something and you can come out and a lot 580 00:34:25,000 --> 00:34:27,560 Speaker 1: of people then all of a sudden believe in a 581 00:34:27,719 --> 00:34:30,319 Speaker 1: higher power or higher consciousness or the universe or God 582 00:34:30,400 --> 00:34:32,560 Speaker 1: or whatever you wanna call it. To me, that just 583 00:34:32,960 --> 00:34:36,520 Speaker 1: is pointing to, well, what does that experience doing. It's 584 00:34:36,520 --> 00:34:39,160 Speaker 1: obviously doing something positive for people. It's making them feel 585 00:34:39,560 --> 00:34:45,680 Speaker 1: more less alone. And whether it's they have themselves or 586 00:34:45,719 --> 00:34:47,880 Speaker 1: they or they're less alone in the universe because they 587 00:34:47,880 --> 00:34:50,160 Speaker 1: believe an alien or they're less alone because they found 588 00:34:50,200 --> 00:34:53,399 Speaker 1: a god type figure. I just think that it doesn't 589 00:34:53,400 --> 00:34:55,960 Speaker 1: seem like a bad thing. So I think that it's 590 00:34:56,000 --> 00:35:01,560 Speaker 1: worth exploring. And if we all where to evolve, what 591 00:35:01,600 --> 00:35:06,120 Speaker 1: would that look like? Like I feel less alone? Like 592 00:35:06,160 --> 00:35:10,080 Speaker 1: I just wonder like, how would that change society. It 593 00:35:10,239 --> 00:35:12,680 Speaker 1: might be beautiful, a lot of us wouldn't be as 594 00:35:13,800 --> 00:35:18,840 Speaker 1: good matrix batteries for you know, consumers, I don't. Okay, 595 00:35:18,880 --> 00:35:21,239 Speaker 1: here's the thing I have to tell on myself. I've 596 00:35:21,280 --> 00:35:23,520 Speaker 1: never seen the Matrix. It had a very weird high 597 00:35:23,560 --> 00:35:26,560 Speaker 1: school experience where I was not allowed to watch a 598 00:35:26,600 --> 00:35:28,680 Speaker 1: lot of movies or TV, and I had to go 599 00:35:28,719 --> 00:35:33,680 Speaker 1: outside and write songs and so things. So I never 600 00:35:33,760 --> 00:35:36,160 Speaker 1: got to see. Like, there's so many movies I've never seen. 601 00:35:36,200 --> 00:35:39,640 Speaker 1: I've never seen Harry Potter. I've never seen the Matrix. 602 00:35:39,760 --> 00:35:41,799 Speaker 1: So when you're making all the Matrix references, I don't 603 00:35:41,800 --> 00:35:46,239 Speaker 1: know what you're talking about. So explain it, okay, So 604 00:35:46,280 --> 00:35:49,760 Speaker 1: in the Matrix, everyone in the world the Matrix, everyone 605 00:35:49,800 --> 00:35:51,480 Speaker 1: in the world has seen it. I feel like a 606 00:35:51,480 --> 00:35:56,960 Speaker 1: complete jackass, and I'm going to watch it tonight. Exactly. 607 00:35:57,040 --> 00:35:59,360 Speaker 1: It's doing a good job of pop cultural izing a 608 00:35:59,440 --> 00:36:01,239 Speaker 1: thing that you're be already aware of, the idea that 609 00:36:01,280 --> 00:36:04,440 Speaker 1: we're all just cogs in this like machine that is 610 00:36:04,560 --> 00:36:08,800 Speaker 1: like something that's happening beyond our our consciousness or our awareness. 611 00:36:08,800 --> 00:36:12,239 Speaker 1: We're being used by a greater power as like a 612 00:36:12,239 --> 00:36:15,640 Speaker 1: tool for their benefit, not ours. Is that about the 613 00:36:15,640 --> 00:36:20,920 Speaker 1: size of it. Yeah, and there's uh, there's a false 614 00:36:21,000 --> 00:36:24,680 Speaker 1: world that we are actually experiencing and the real world 615 00:36:24,880 --> 00:36:29,480 Speaker 1: video game essentially like that. We're we're human beings are 616 00:36:29,520 --> 00:36:34,000 Speaker 1: physically plugged into a machine and our batteries for this 617 00:36:34,040 --> 00:36:37,920 Speaker 1: other bigger machine. But we are in a virtual reality 618 00:36:37,920 --> 00:36:40,840 Speaker 1: world that is like Earth and all of this stuff. 619 00:36:41,239 --> 00:36:48,600 Speaker 1: It's not surprising, none of that is. That's like kind 620 00:36:48,600 --> 00:36:51,840 Speaker 1: of what I think probably it might be happening anyways. 621 00:36:51,840 --> 00:36:55,880 Speaker 1: And whether we're somewhere else being plugged into this, we're 622 00:36:55,920 --> 00:37:02,560 Speaker 1: definitely plugged into this, Like I'm having a conversation with 623 00:37:02,600 --> 00:37:05,120 Speaker 1: a bunch of people that are elsewhere yet we are 624 00:37:05,200 --> 00:37:07,680 Speaker 1: here together. Like that still trips me out. I know 625 00:37:07,800 --> 00:37:10,200 Speaker 1: it should be normal to you by now. But the 626 00:37:10,200 --> 00:37:12,960 Speaker 1: Plato's the Plato's Cave thing, I think is the most appropriate, 627 00:37:13,160 --> 00:37:15,799 Speaker 1: uh kind of little parable for all of this. Ben 628 00:37:16,000 --> 00:37:17,279 Speaker 1: you know, this is not the one where you're sort 629 00:37:17,280 --> 00:37:20,520 Speaker 1: of chained in place staring at a screen basically and 630 00:37:20,560 --> 00:37:23,160 Speaker 1: there's shadows on the wall that represent things but aren't 631 00:37:23,160 --> 00:37:26,600 Speaker 1: actually the things themselves. Well so in the in the 632 00:37:26,680 --> 00:37:30,759 Speaker 1: story of Plato's Cavern, which is which is just it's 633 00:37:30,760 --> 00:37:33,720 Speaker 1: a banger. As far as stories go, in this story, 634 00:37:33,800 --> 00:37:36,160 Speaker 1: there are there are just as just as you said, 635 00:37:36,200 --> 00:37:39,040 Speaker 1: there are people who have spent the entirety of their 636 00:37:39,080 --> 00:37:44,480 Speaker 1: lives in this cave with the with a fire or 637 00:37:44,520 --> 00:37:47,080 Speaker 1: an entrance behind them, so all that they can see 638 00:37:47,120 --> 00:37:52,480 Speaker 1: are the shadows cast by these objects. So the the 639 00:37:52,560 --> 00:37:56,160 Speaker 1: problem with it is that because they're changed, they cannot 640 00:37:56,200 --> 00:37:59,799 Speaker 1: look to the left or right. Symbolically, they cannot change 641 00:37:59,840 --> 00:38:03,840 Speaker 1: their perspective, so they are they can only see the 642 00:38:04,040 --> 00:38:11,600 Speaker 1: shadows of other things. And the question is what happens 643 00:38:12,200 --> 00:38:17,520 Speaker 1: when they escape the cave. If somebody escapes the cave 644 00:38:17,560 --> 00:38:20,680 Speaker 1: and they leave this false world to the real world 645 00:38:20,840 --> 00:38:24,680 Speaker 1: or the overworld, whatever you want to call it, um, 646 00:38:24,800 --> 00:38:27,560 Speaker 1: would they understand what was happening? Would they be blinded 647 00:38:27,560 --> 00:38:32,320 Speaker 1: by the light, would they like knowing the overall reality? 648 00:38:32,680 --> 00:38:35,719 Speaker 1: Or would they say this is crazy. Take me back 649 00:38:35,719 --> 00:38:38,440 Speaker 1: to the cave. I've seen a real horse, and the 650 00:38:38,520 --> 00:38:42,080 Speaker 1: shadows of horses are way less frightening. I mean, I've 651 00:38:42,280 --> 00:38:46,320 Speaker 1: sometimes feel that way, like this past year is the 652 00:38:46,360 --> 00:38:50,839 Speaker 1: first time I've slowed down since I was nine years old. 653 00:38:50,840 --> 00:38:53,680 Speaker 1: Like it's just been like a wild ride, and it's 654 00:38:53,719 --> 00:38:58,400 Speaker 1: been very um self involved. I mean, I'm promoting myself, 655 00:38:58,440 --> 00:39:01,400 Speaker 1: singing songs about myself. Let's just be honest. It's like 656 00:39:01,920 --> 00:39:03,960 Speaker 1: it's a lot about me. And so this is the 657 00:39:04,000 --> 00:39:08,200 Speaker 1: first year I've got to really stop and look at 658 00:39:08,280 --> 00:39:12,239 Speaker 1: everyone else in the world and everything else there could be, 659 00:39:12,360 --> 00:39:16,200 Speaker 1: and it is it's uncomfortable, like growing and going out 660 00:39:16,239 --> 00:39:18,120 Speaker 1: of the cave, which I feel like. It's like I 661 00:39:18,160 --> 00:39:20,840 Speaker 1: feel like I've been creeping out of the cave slowly 662 00:39:20,880 --> 00:39:24,239 Speaker 1: this year, and it's super uncomfortable. But once you once 663 00:39:24,280 --> 00:39:28,880 Speaker 1: you see it, you can't go back. You can't. So 664 00:39:29,160 --> 00:39:32,799 Speaker 1: once you open the doors, Like, it's not necessarily comfortable, 665 00:39:32,920 --> 00:39:36,320 Speaker 1: but I do think that it's making me a more aware, 666 00:39:36,480 --> 00:39:42,520 Speaker 1: conscious person, and it's not necessarily comfortable or easy. But 667 00:39:42,600 --> 00:39:46,359 Speaker 1: you know, I'm on a different trip. So here we go. 668 00:39:47,280 --> 00:39:51,440 Speaker 1: On this trip. It appears, at least on websites across 669 00:39:51,800 --> 00:39:55,040 Speaker 1: the internet that you are going to be getting onto 670 00:39:55,080 --> 00:39:58,279 Speaker 1: a cruise at some point later this year. Is that 671 00:39:58,440 --> 00:40:02,200 Speaker 1: really happening? The best idea? No, I'm not sure it's 672 00:40:02,200 --> 00:40:05,280 Speaker 1: the best idea. This really depends on the vaccine, so 673 00:40:05,680 --> 00:40:09,439 Speaker 1: it depends on how COVID is going. But I am 674 00:40:09,600 --> 00:40:12,279 Speaker 1: supposed to go on a Casher cruise, which I know 675 00:40:13,040 --> 00:40:18,120 Speaker 1: sounds like probably hell to you guys, and for me, 676 00:40:18,200 --> 00:40:20,399 Speaker 1: I've never been on a cruise before, so I was like, oh, 677 00:40:20,480 --> 00:40:21,680 Speaker 1: I don't know how this is going to go. And 678 00:40:21,719 --> 00:40:24,719 Speaker 1: it was like the greatest three and a half of 679 00:40:24,760 --> 00:40:28,920 Speaker 1: four days of my entire life. But it's also like 680 00:40:29,320 --> 00:40:32,960 Speaker 1: tv D to see how COVID works out, and then 681 00:40:33,000 --> 00:40:35,239 Speaker 1: by then we're going to know about aliens a little 682 00:40:35,239 --> 00:40:38,920 Speaker 1: bit because of the exactly. So, ah, that is a 683 00:40:39,600 --> 00:40:42,160 Speaker 1: segue and a half right there. I think we dive 684 00:40:42,320 --> 00:40:46,759 Speaker 1: right in uh the news Ben, Yes, yes, Uh, this 685 00:40:46,840 --> 00:40:50,440 Speaker 1: is something so uh. Since we're talking about peeking behind 686 00:40:50,480 --> 00:40:53,760 Speaker 1: the curtain reality, let's let's look like behind the curtain 687 00:40:53,920 --> 00:40:58,440 Speaker 1: of today's episode. Uh, Kesha You, Matt Noel and I 688 00:40:58,680 --> 00:41:01,879 Speaker 1: were talking in advance of this call and we were like, well, wait, 689 00:41:01,960 --> 00:41:04,319 Speaker 1: what are cool things we want to discuss, you know, 690 00:41:04,680 --> 00:41:07,480 Speaker 1: what would we like to explore together? And you said 691 00:41:07,600 --> 00:41:12,200 Speaker 1: something very interesting. You told us, You told us in 692 00:41:12,320 --> 00:41:17,399 Speaker 1: paraphrasing like disclosure. Guys. Also, I think disclosure is it's 693 00:41:17,400 --> 00:41:20,279 Speaker 1: going to be a thing. It's coming up. Disclosure for 694 00:41:20,280 --> 00:41:23,000 Speaker 1: anyone who listens to this show and somehow doesn't know 695 00:41:23,000 --> 00:41:26,239 Speaker 1: what we're talking about is the idea that there will 696 00:41:26,280 --> 00:41:31,440 Speaker 1: be information released regarding either the presence of intelligent non 697 00:41:31,560 --> 00:41:36,239 Speaker 1: human beings and callum aliens if you want, or there 698 00:41:36,239 --> 00:41:40,600 Speaker 1: will be something even further, like a government saying, hey, 699 00:41:40,640 --> 00:41:44,399 Speaker 1: we've actually interacted with these folks, and now we're going 700 00:41:44,440 --> 00:41:50,560 Speaker 1: to tell you well, folks, Kesha told us back in December. 701 00:41:51,080 --> 00:41:53,279 Speaker 1: I think there's I think there's something on the way, 702 00:41:54,360 --> 00:41:59,719 Speaker 1: And it turns out that you were right. You feel 703 00:41:59,719 --> 00:42:02,839 Speaker 1: like in in the air, I swear to god, I 704 00:42:02,880 --> 00:42:05,759 Speaker 1: could just feel it. I feel like the media is 705 00:42:05,840 --> 00:42:13,920 Speaker 1: starting to slowly introduce the ideas of extraterrestrial or you 706 00:42:13,920 --> 00:42:16,920 Speaker 1: know whatever. I'm going to call them aliens because it's 707 00:42:16,920 --> 00:42:19,879 Speaker 1: the easiest term, but some sort of life. And they're 708 00:42:19,880 --> 00:42:23,680 Speaker 1: gonna just sneak it in to you know, social media. 709 00:42:23,719 --> 00:42:25,640 Speaker 1: It's going to sneak into New York Times, going to 710 00:42:25,760 --> 00:42:29,560 Speaker 1: sneak in like TMZ. We're gonna get all these places 711 00:42:29,600 --> 00:42:31,799 Speaker 1: and just make people a little more comfortable with the 712 00:42:31,840 --> 00:42:34,600 Speaker 1: idea that this is coming. And I can just feel 713 00:42:34,640 --> 00:42:40,120 Speaker 1: it slowly getting integrated into conversations more and it's getting 714 00:42:40,239 --> 00:42:44,319 Speaker 1: less taboo and less crazy and more legitimate. And you 715 00:42:44,520 --> 00:42:47,120 Speaker 1: keep seeing more videos and more people talking about it, 716 00:42:47,160 --> 00:42:51,839 Speaker 1: and now they are going to release, um, how many 717 00:42:51,880 --> 00:42:56,480 Speaker 1: all the information? Yes? Yes, uh, the hidden in the 718 00:42:56,600 --> 00:43:00,279 Speaker 1: COVID Relief Bill of the United States. There's this look 719 00:43:00,320 --> 00:43:02,719 Speaker 1: like if you go down in the Metroska dolls enough, 720 00:43:02,920 --> 00:43:06,080 Speaker 1: there's this one little piece where they said, oh, by 721 00:43:06,120 --> 00:43:09,320 Speaker 1: the way, the CIA has a hundred and eighty days 722 00:43:09,400 --> 00:43:14,080 Speaker 1: to release everything they ever knew about UFOs since the 723 00:43:14,120 --> 00:43:17,160 Speaker 1: formation of the CIA. Basically, so you called it all 724 00:43:17,239 --> 00:43:19,960 Speaker 1: that stuff though the little we talked about this, that's 725 00:43:19,960 --> 00:43:22,239 Speaker 1: all called pork. I guess where you know, it's like 726 00:43:22,239 --> 00:43:24,080 Speaker 1: a quid pro quota, like we'll give you your thing 727 00:43:24,120 --> 00:43:26,759 Speaker 1: if you give us Arthur who pushed for that? Like, 728 00:43:26,840 --> 00:43:29,520 Speaker 1: who who's pushing for that to be wrapped up in 729 00:43:29,520 --> 00:43:32,920 Speaker 1: this completely unrelated bill? Well that's what I'm wondering. Is 730 00:43:32,960 --> 00:43:38,320 Speaker 1: it totally unrelated? Well, okay, that's another discussion. But I 731 00:43:38,360 --> 00:43:40,440 Speaker 1: saw your eyes light up when I was asking that question. 732 00:43:40,920 --> 00:43:46,920 Speaker 1: We found out it was Marko Rubio. I think this 733 00:43:47,000 --> 00:43:52,440 Speaker 1: time around that that surprised me. This time around. The 734 00:43:52,520 --> 00:44:01,120 Speaker 1: guy who drinks the water weird, Yeah, I didn't expect it. 735 00:44:01,200 --> 00:44:06,759 Speaker 1: Also drinks water really weird with with a finger and 736 00:44:06,800 --> 00:44:13,399 Speaker 1: a thumb on each hand like a small child. So yeah, 737 00:44:13,480 --> 00:44:16,560 Speaker 1: so um, yeah, they kissed the lip of the bottle, 738 00:44:16,760 --> 00:44:20,680 Speaker 1: which is weird. It's like a pucker. Anyway, Anyway, people 739 00:44:20,880 --> 00:44:25,240 Speaker 1: should drink water the way they wish, I guess, but uh, 740 00:44:25,280 --> 00:44:27,520 Speaker 1: but yeah, this is this is a part of a 741 00:44:27,640 --> 00:44:31,239 Speaker 1: larger pattern. So Marco Rubio being a supporter of this 742 00:44:31,480 --> 00:44:34,799 Speaker 1: really surprised us on this show. But there were other 743 00:44:34,840 --> 00:44:37,800 Speaker 1: people before him, like Harry Reid came out and said 744 00:44:37,840 --> 00:44:41,319 Speaker 1: that he wanted to uh that there was stuff they 745 00:44:41,320 --> 00:44:43,720 Speaker 1: don't watch. You know, I'm sorry I said the title 746 00:44:43,840 --> 00:44:47,759 Speaker 1: in the conversations, but but said there was. He said 747 00:44:48,080 --> 00:44:51,200 Speaker 1: there were things that needed to be made public. Uh, 748 00:44:51,239 --> 00:44:55,759 Speaker 1: and he didn't. I don't think either of them went 749 00:44:55,880 --> 00:44:59,319 Speaker 1: so far as to say definitely aliens, but they said 750 00:44:59,360 --> 00:45:02,040 Speaker 1: there are things that we have seen that we cannot 751 00:45:02,080 --> 00:45:06,720 Speaker 1: explain and the public needs needs to know. Marco Rubio 752 00:45:06,920 --> 00:45:09,799 Speaker 1: uh said he had a quote where he said, you know, 753 00:45:10,080 --> 00:45:12,840 Speaker 1: really it might be better if it's aliens, because otherwise 754 00:45:12,920 --> 00:45:16,040 Speaker 1: it's a it's another country that's doing things we don't understand. 755 00:45:16,280 --> 00:45:20,120 Speaker 1: And I was normalizing, normalizing it so our brains can 756 00:45:20,160 --> 00:45:23,120 Speaker 1: become accustomed to it not being that far out. I 757 00:45:23,800 --> 00:45:25,759 Speaker 1: think I think you make a really great point too, 758 00:45:25,760 --> 00:45:29,080 Speaker 1: because my initial reaction is, like, why are these stories 759 00:45:29,160 --> 00:45:32,360 Speaker 1: not making bigger news? Why are these not like big 760 00:45:32,400 --> 00:45:35,160 Speaker 1: massive headlines, you know about the whatever that that that 761 00:45:35,320 --> 00:45:37,360 Speaker 1: video that Tom DeLong kind of pushed out where it 762 00:45:37,400 --> 00:45:40,400 Speaker 1: was like some navy pilots literally commenting on what the 763 00:45:40,400 --> 00:45:42,800 Speaker 1: hell is this thing um that they're seeing. It was 764 00:45:42,880 --> 00:45:45,080 Speaker 1: kind of below the fold type stuff for like more 765 00:45:45,080 --> 00:45:48,000 Speaker 1: Internet e stuff, And it's still doesn't even this is 766 00:45:48,239 --> 00:45:49,960 Speaker 1: the kind of stuff we would find out about, but 767 00:45:50,000 --> 00:45:52,440 Speaker 1: it's like not massive news. And I think you're right. 768 00:45:52,480 --> 00:45:55,359 Speaker 1: It is sort of a normalization effect. And whether that's 769 00:45:55,400 --> 00:45:58,759 Speaker 1: by design or people have just been pre programmed to 770 00:45:58,840 --> 00:46:02,360 Speaker 1: kind of ignore this off or think it's all bogus um, 771 00:46:02,640 --> 00:46:05,520 Speaker 1: it's fascinating. Nonetheless, and I'm really looking forward to keeping 772 00:46:05,520 --> 00:46:08,560 Speaker 1: an eye on as as it develops. Kind of you know, yes, 773 00:46:08,640 --> 00:46:11,200 Speaker 1: me too. And we were talking about this earlier. I'm 774 00:46:11,360 --> 00:46:14,080 Speaker 1: on Cashing the Creepies. I talked to Demilovado and she 775 00:46:14,560 --> 00:46:18,479 Speaker 1: talked all about these insane experiences she had, like such 776 00:46:18,520 --> 00:46:24,200 Speaker 1: a trip and like my mind was blown and the 777 00:46:24,280 --> 00:46:28,640 Speaker 1: only thing that news picked up on was that we 778 00:46:28,800 --> 00:46:35,440 Speaker 1: both dyed our hair and we're both sitting there talking 779 00:46:35,480 --> 00:46:38,120 Speaker 1: about how we wanted how we like, I'm talking about 780 00:46:38,160 --> 00:46:41,640 Speaker 1: how I met God and she's played with aliens, and like, 781 00:46:41,680 --> 00:46:44,040 Speaker 1: if they just picked up on our hair, it's just 782 00:46:44,120 --> 00:46:47,160 Speaker 1: so bizarre. Well, I'll tell you what the most bizarre 783 00:46:47,160 --> 00:46:48,759 Speaker 1: thing is. If this is what disclosure is going to be, 784 00:46:48,760 --> 00:46:51,960 Speaker 1: We're gonna find out that the machine elves that we 785 00:46:52,040 --> 00:46:56,520 Speaker 1: experienced through meditation and d MT are the actual extraterrestrials 786 00:46:56,680 --> 00:46:58,239 Speaker 1: and you don't get to them by going out there. 787 00:46:58,280 --> 00:47:01,040 Speaker 1: You get to them by going in here. Yes, that's 788 00:47:01,040 --> 00:47:03,319 Speaker 1: going to be. I think they might be in here 789 00:47:03,640 --> 00:47:06,719 Speaker 1: and out there because I think we're all microcosms of 790 00:47:06,760 --> 00:47:10,319 Speaker 1: the same thing. Like we're all like a bunch of 791 00:47:10,320 --> 00:47:13,160 Speaker 1: people running around on Earth where like the molecules of 792 00:47:13,200 --> 00:47:14,719 Speaker 1: the Earth, and then you go out and I think 793 00:47:14,719 --> 00:47:19,000 Speaker 1: once extra trustrial life is kind of I think we're 794 00:47:19,000 --> 00:47:22,239 Speaker 1: just going to realize we're all just microcosms and it 795 00:47:22,320 --> 00:47:24,440 Speaker 1: just keeps getting bigger and you could zoom out or 796 00:47:24,480 --> 00:47:27,640 Speaker 1: you can zoom in, and it's all connected. And I 797 00:47:27,680 --> 00:47:31,839 Speaker 1: think that's the part that brings me a little bit 798 00:47:32,080 --> 00:47:36,520 Speaker 1: of peace, knowing we're all connected, but also wanting other 799 00:47:36,560 --> 00:47:39,240 Speaker 1: people to like see it too because we're all connected. 800 00:47:39,280 --> 00:47:46,160 Speaker 1: I wish we would stop yes and stop stop acting otherwise, right, supersymmetry. 801 00:47:46,960 --> 00:47:48,960 Speaker 1: And I have to say from the start, when we 802 00:47:49,000 --> 00:47:52,400 Speaker 1: met and I found out about your show, I thought 803 00:47:52,440 --> 00:47:55,960 Speaker 1: you have such an intuitive connectedness about you that makes 804 00:47:56,000 --> 00:47:58,320 Speaker 1: you a great interviewer. And you're really good at putting 805 00:47:58,360 --> 00:48:01,000 Speaker 1: these pieces together and pulling these stories out of people. 806 00:48:01,200 --> 00:48:03,120 Speaker 1: And that's why I think everyone should go check out 807 00:48:03,239 --> 00:48:05,200 Speaker 1: kesh on the Creepies. You you touch on the kinds 808 00:48:05,239 --> 00:48:08,200 Speaker 1: of stuff we touch on this show and everything in between. 809 00:48:08,200 --> 00:48:09,960 Speaker 1: It's just about being a human and that's why I 810 00:48:09,960 --> 00:48:12,600 Speaker 1: think it's such a fun special show. And you've got 811 00:48:12,760 --> 00:48:15,399 Speaker 1: I'm lucky that I I know you're kind of deep 812 00:48:15,440 --> 00:48:17,960 Speaker 1: cut lists of stuff in the future, and there's some 813 00:48:18,080 --> 00:48:20,360 Speaker 1: really cool folks on there that I will not spoil. 814 00:48:20,440 --> 00:48:23,520 Speaker 1: But tune in and and and download it and subscribe 815 00:48:23,560 --> 00:48:27,040 Speaker 1: on all the podcast places today. You won't be sorry. 816 00:48:27,080 --> 00:48:30,520 Speaker 1: Thanks guy, Oh, thank you so much for your time 817 00:48:30,680 --> 00:48:34,680 Speaker 1: Kesha today. Uh We in addition to Watty to thank you, 818 00:48:35,280 --> 00:48:37,959 Speaker 1: we do have to have to see there. There's so 819 00:48:38,000 --> 00:48:41,880 Speaker 1: many more things that we could explore, and there's so 820 00:48:41,920 --> 00:48:44,359 Speaker 1: many more things, as Dole said, that you and your 821 00:48:44,400 --> 00:48:50,120 Speaker 1: guests explore on your show, which has multiple episodes available now, Uh, 822 00:48:50,320 --> 00:48:52,840 Speaker 1: do do check it out. We're not we're not blowing spoke. 823 00:48:52,920 --> 00:48:55,160 Speaker 1: We actually listen to this show too and enjoy it. 824 00:48:55,480 --> 00:48:59,520 Speaker 1: Um one one thing that I feel like we will 825 00:48:59,560 --> 00:49:01,880 Speaker 1: be remit if we don't make the point to Matt's 826 00:49:01,920 --> 00:49:05,400 Speaker 1: point and your point about maybe the entities we encounter 827 00:49:05,560 --> 00:49:09,560 Speaker 1: being something we encounter by journeying and word. Uh. There's 828 00:49:09,719 --> 00:49:12,400 Speaker 1: there's a guy named Terrence McKenna who has said that 829 00:49:13,280 --> 00:49:17,040 Speaker 1: he believes when people are having these experiences, they may 830 00:49:17,040 --> 00:49:21,160 Speaker 1: be encountering something hidden in our own DNA, which we 831 00:49:21,160 --> 00:49:24,360 Speaker 1: still don't fully understand. So we're just gonna just gonna 832 00:49:24,400 --> 00:49:28,800 Speaker 1: throw that at our listeners. I really do believe it. 833 00:49:29,080 --> 00:49:31,000 Speaker 1: I don't know what it is, but I could just 834 00:49:31,080 --> 00:49:35,839 Speaker 1: feel like the more inward I go, the more when 835 00:49:35,880 --> 00:49:38,120 Speaker 1: I am acting out in the world, it makes me 836 00:49:38,200 --> 00:49:40,680 Speaker 1: just want to be a more conscious, better person. And 837 00:49:40,719 --> 00:49:43,560 Speaker 1: I feel like anything that takes you there, whether that's 838 00:49:43,640 --> 00:49:47,279 Speaker 1: meditation or just sitting with yourself or doing yoga or 839 00:49:48,320 --> 00:49:53,600 Speaker 1: you know, when the psychedelics are studied and it's safe, 840 00:49:53,680 --> 00:49:59,200 Speaker 1: and it's kind of in a controlled legal way. It 841 00:49:59,280 --> 00:50:03,080 Speaker 1: might help people. We'll find that connectedness with themselves and 842 00:50:03,120 --> 00:50:04,960 Speaker 1: maybe each other in a higher power. And I just 843 00:50:05,400 --> 00:50:07,440 Speaker 1: excited to see where that would take us all as 844 00:50:07,480 --> 00:50:10,880 Speaker 1: a society. Like I think evolution, it could be like 845 00:50:10,920 --> 00:50:15,640 Speaker 1: a really beautiful evolution and enlightenment and God, what if 846 00:50:15,680 --> 00:50:18,839 Speaker 1: we all came to peace with each other. Wouldn't that 847 00:50:18,880 --> 00:50:21,239 Speaker 1: be insane? Wouldn't that be amazing? You'll have to come 848 00:50:21,239 --> 00:50:27,480 Speaker 1: back on the show that happens. I mean, the insurrection 849 00:50:27,640 --> 00:50:29,880 Speaker 1: was like what six days ago. So I'm trying to 850 00:50:29,920 --> 00:50:33,160 Speaker 1: stay positive and hopeful here, But you guys should come 851 00:50:33,160 --> 00:50:36,520 Speaker 1: on my show and we can talk about more creepy ship. 852 00:50:36,719 --> 00:50:40,200 Speaker 1: Absolutely absolutely, Um well, I know you got a scooed, 853 00:50:40,200 --> 00:50:42,160 Speaker 1: but thanks so much for your time. And this has 854 00:50:42,200 --> 00:50:44,680 Speaker 1: been an absolute pleasure. Really. Like Ben said, there's a 855 00:50:44,719 --> 00:50:46,200 Speaker 1: million other things we could have talked about, and there's 856 00:50:46,239 --> 00:50:48,560 Speaker 1: things that we made notes on that we skipped over. 857 00:50:48,640 --> 00:50:51,840 Speaker 1: But I think this was a pretty fun, connected conversation 858 00:50:51,920 --> 00:50:55,080 Speaker 1: going from psychedelics to disclosure and all things in between, 859 00:50:55,120 --> 00:50:57,120 Speaker 1: and it didn't really feel like we jumped to sharks. 860 00:50:57,120 --> 00:51:00,960 Speaker 1: So I'm pretty happy about this. What a wild ride. 861 00:51:01,080 --> 00:51:06,040 Speaker 1: Thank you again to Kesha. We explored disclosure. We explored 862 00:51:06,040 --> 00:51:09,160 Speaker 1: psychedelics not just as medicine, but as one of the 863 00:51:09,239 --> 00:51:14,240 Speaker 1: many ways that people have endeavored to cross the siege 864 00:51:14,280 --> 00:51:17,920 Speaker 1: perilous and meet with a reality that may lie beyond 865 00:51:18,160 --> 00:51:23,480 Speaker 1: our own. Thanks to everybody for tuning in. We want 866 00:51:23,520 --> 00:51:26,440 Speaker 1: to hear from you. To the degree that you are comfortable. 867 00:51:26,920 --> 00:51:33,720 Speaker 1: We'd love to hear your experiences with meditation, with supernatural 868 00:51:33,840 --> 00:51:38,400 Speaker 1: or spiritual revelations, whether or not psychedelics or involved. Please 869 00:51:38,440 --> 00:51:40,879 Speaker 1: fill us. Tell us as much or as little as 870 00:51:40,880 --> 00:51:43,680 Speaker 1: you feel comfortable sharing. You can find us on Facebook. 871 00:51:43,719 --> 00:51:45,600 Speaker 1: You can find us on Instagram. You can find us 872 00:51:45,640 --> 00:51:48,880 Speaker 1: on Twitter. We'd like to recommend our Facebook page. Here's 873 00:51:48,960 --> 00:51:52,440 Speaker 1: where it gets crazy. We've got some brand new mods, 874 00:51:52,520 --> 00:51:55,959 Speaker 1: so jump by, say hello and show them some love. 875 00:51:56,200 --> 00:52:00,840 Speaker 1: If you hate social media, if you like Kesha, like myself, 876 00:52:01,120 --> 00:52:04,000 Speaker 1: have read the books about why you should quit social media. 877 00:52:04,719 --> 00:52:06,480 Speaker 1: We have another way to get in contact with us. 878 00:52:06,480 --> 00:52:08,960 Speaker 1: You can always give us a phone call. Let's right. 879 00:52:09,040 --> 00:52:11,520 Speaker 1: Our number is one eight three three st d w 880 00:52:11,880 --> 00:52:16,160 Speaker 1: y t K. Please talk to us about some encounter 881 00:52:16,320 --> 00:52:19,640 Speaker 1: you've had with an intelligent thing that you can't explain, 882 00:52:19,680 --> 00:52:23,680 Speaker 1: whether it's a dolphin, a shadow creature. I hear there 883 00:52:23,719 --> 00:52:27,080 Speaker 1: are people out there. Yeah, people are cool, but especially 884 00:52:27,120 --> 00:52:30,799 Speaker 1: if they're like more arms than usual or eyes than 885 00:52:33,040 --> 00:52:36,440 Speaker 1: please please leave us a message about that, like I 886 00:52:36,480 --> 00:52:39,480 Speaker 1: said one eight three three st d w y t K. 887 00:52:39,840 --> 00:52:41,720 Speaker 1: If you don't want to call us, you can also 888 00:52:41,800 --> 00:52:44,360 Speaker 1: get in touch with us a slightly more old fashioned 889 00:52:44,400 --> 00:52:47,080 Speaker 1: internet based way. Why not write us a good old 890 00:52:47,120 --> 00:53:00,000 Speaker 1: fashioned email. We are conspiracy at iHeart radio dot com. 891 00:53:00,040 --> 00:53:11,440 Speaker 1: M hm. Stuff they don't want you to know. Is 892 00:53:11,480 --> 00:53:14,520 Speaker 1: a production of I heart Radio. For more podcasts from 893 00:53:14,520 --> 00:53:17,640 Speaker 1: my heart Radio, visit the i heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, 894 00:53:17,680 --> 00:53:19,560 Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows