Speaker 1: High Strange is an eight part series. If you'd like
Speaker 1: to bene the whole series right now ad free, you
Speaker 1: can subscribe to Tenderfoot Plus on Apple podcasts. Hey it's
Speaker 1: pain here. We have some really exciting updates for you.
Speaker 1: The UFO story has not gotten any smaller or quieter.
Speaker 1: It's gotten a little bit louder.
Speaker 2: We think.
Speaker 1: We have some special guests, some new stories you probably
Speaker 1: haven't heard yet, and a very special announcement about the
Speaker 1: future of High Strange. But what you can do right now,
Speaker 1: and I highly suggest you do, is go listen to
Speaker 1: a new interview that we did with a man named
Speaker 1: Jeremy Corbel. It's available on my weekly podcast, Talking to Death.
Speaker 2: It's out right now.
Speaker 1: Just go search Talking to Death on your podcast app
Speaker 1: and look for the most recent episode with Jeremy Corbel.
Speaker 2: And I promise you it's worth it. Thanks y'all.
Speaker 3: Go.
Speaker 2: It's a good song. And he's out of jail now,
Speaker 2: is he he is?
Speaker 4: Yeah?
Speaker 5: Oh?
Speaker 3: Gun it yeah yeah. Well it's like when did Metro.
Speaker 2: Go to jail? Okay, we're back, we're back. We're back.
Speaker 2: It's been a minute. Yeah, we're out.
Speaker 3: Of jail, Out of jail, straight to space.
Speaker 1: That's yeah, that's why it took so long. We've been
Speaker 1: in jail this whole time. No, we've been in podcast
Speaker 1: jail making other podcasts. But trust me when I say
Speaker 1: we have never stopped thinking about High Strange because it's
Speaker 1: one of the most fun shows I think I've ever
Speaker 1: worked on. Now we're back here because one, we've missed you.
Speaker 1: Two we've really never stopped talking, thinking about, or researching
Speaker 1: or researching investigating UFO phenomenon since we since episode eight
Speaker 1: of High Strange. And we've done a couple of different
Speaker 1: things since then, and we wanted to give you another
Speaker 1: roundtable episode because it's been so long. A lot's happened
Speaker 1: since we left off. I feel like a year ago,
Speaker 1: which is about a year ago now, almost when the
Speaker 1: podcast first came out. I've let the conversations evolved even
Speaker 1: more further past that in a good way, in terms
Speaker 1: of people just being open to the concept of, hey,
Speaker 1: maybe there's stuff going on that we don't fully understand
Speaker 1: and it's okay to look into it.
Speaker 3: I mean, I can honestly say that since High Strange ended,
Speaker 3: I have looked, I have researched more than I did
Speaker 3: during the production of High Strange into UFOs, into Aliens,
Speaker 3: into Nhi. I am obsessed beyond what I was before.
Speaker 2: Dylan was already obsessed.
Speaker 6: I think I'll always be obsessed. Yeah, if any of
Speaker 6: you could see our text chain for the last eight
Speaker 6: months since we last made this, nothing you would ever
Speaker 6: listen to us.
Speaker 2: Nothing gets right. It's just all conspiracy, all credit this show.
Speaker 3: No no, but nothing gets through the cracks. Nothing slips
Speaker 3: through the cracks.
Speaker 5: We see it all.
Speaker 3: We've seen everything. You think that you need to email.
Speaker 1: To us, we have seen it, right, Or if you're
Speaker 1: just a casual listener, you're like, what the hell are
Speaker 1: you talking about?
Speaker 2: Man, tell me something right?
Speaker 1: Okay, that's fair too, because I'm also I'm kind of
Speaker 1: more in that camp sometimes as well, where you guys
Speaker 1: send me this stuff. And there's been some big news stories.
Speaker 1: I think the biggest thing that's happened since the release
Speaker 1: of High Strange was this kind of legendary congressional hearing
Speaker 1: and last minute Dylan and I decided to take a
Speaker 1: flight to DC and go to this thing. Wanted to
Speaker 1: set up what was actually going on that day, just
Speaker 1: like like for those who didn't know this happened, there
Speaker 1: was a big congressional hearing about UFOs and we went
Speaker 1: to go see these people speak in front of congress.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 6: So, you know, I got the call from pay late one.
Speaker 6: It was probably eight pm one night.
Speaker 2: We had like an hour to get there.
Speaker 6: Yeah, and he just he calls me. He's like, we're
Speaker 6: gonna go. I don't own a suit because I'm a child,
Speaker 6: but apparently you need a You need a suit, you
Speaker 6: are a child. Yeah, you should, I should own a suit.
Speaker 6: It's thirty two.
Speaker 2: Well I have, like I have won suit, you know,
Speaker 2: and you looked good at it.
Speaker 6: Let me see.
Speaker 2: Oh well thank you looked real small. Oh gosh, I
Speaker 2: can't I can't repeat it.
Speaker 6: Yeah, but we, uh we get there, you and your suit,
Speaker 6: me and just my everyday close. Luckily they still let
Speaker 6: me in, which is nice. But we get there, you know,
Speaker 6: not really knowing what to expect, and we get sent
Speaker 6: into this this room next to the Congressional hall where
Speaker 6: the meeting's actually taking place, and it's just full of
Speaker 6: other call them nerds. I was gonna say alien enthusiasts,
Speaker 6: but let's call them for what they are. They're nerds.
Speaker 3: Nerds.
Speaker 2: We were there too. We're like Oh, make god, we
Speaker 2: dressed up nice for this.
Speaker 5: Oh.
Speaker 3: I wanted to go so bad. I was so jealous.
Speaker 6: Yeah, it was an experience. It was a once in
Speaker 6: a lifetime experience.
Speaker 1: There were so many people at this random hearing on
Speaker 1: like a Tuesday or something, that there was a billover
Speaker 1: room for press because the actual congressional room was too
Speaker 1: full for anyone else to attend in there, and so
Speaker 1: we were in. At first, I was kind of bummed
Speaker 1: to go, oh, man, I wanted to be in the
Speaker 1: actual room where they're doing this. But it actually turned
Speaker 1: out to be a cooler experience, I think because we
Speaker 1: had a live feed from the room right next door,
Speaker 1: so we could hear it and see it. But there
Speaker 1: was way less Uh, there was there was.
Speaker 2: Less rules in this room. I'd like to say it
Speaker 2: was it was the back of the class.
Speaker 1: It was the back of the class. People were clapping.
Speaker 1: It was this surreal thing, like people talk about the
Speaker 1: idea of disclosure right where, you know, eventually one day
Speaker 1: the government comes out and says, hey, here's what's really
Speaker 1: going on, and there's all these species of aliens or
Speaker 1: we had these craft.
Speaker 2: You know, I don't think it's ever going to happen
Speaker 2: that way. It'd be cool if it did.
Speaker 1: But it felt like a closure, a moment where you
Speaker 1: were maybe I was just too excited, but it felt
Speaker 1: like in the moment I was witnessing something that was
Speaker 1: like legendary.
Speaker 3: I think I think it's historical. I think I think
Speaker 3: Rush will be in textbooks.
Speaker 1: Okay, let's talk about Grush, because if you don't know
Speaker 1: who David Grush, who's really the main person who was
Speaker 1: testifying before Congress. Let's talk about who David Grush is
Speaker 1: and what he was even saying.
Speaker 3: What was your favorite thing he said in the Congression?
Speaker 1: Well, okay, I remember you showing me that this guy
Speaker 1: was about to come out. There was a whistleblower from
Speaker 1: the government who was coming out with some big bombshell information.
Speaker 1: And then they dropped this interview with Ross Colehart, this
Speaker 1: journalist from News Nation, and we watched it at the
Speaker 1: same time. Think we were in Denver or something. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and you got me hyped on it, and he was
Speaker 1: saying stuff that was absolutely bunkers crazy sounding, because you've
Speaker 1: never heard really many people of that level of the
Speaker 1: darn say something like that.
Speaker 3: That's the thing. It's you've You've heard crazier claims than this.
Speaker 3: Everyone has. Everyone's heard some crazy shit from some UFO
Speaker 3: guy who's like, yo, the aliens, I'm talking to him
Speaker 3: in my head from my bedroom. I can call UFOs
Speaker 3: to my house, my backyard. We've all heard that. Ye,
Speaker 3: if you've looked into this at all, you've heard the
Speaker 3: crazy stuff. But this guy. The crazy thing about this
Speaker 3: is he was saying some of the crazy shit, but
Speaker 3: his credentials check out. He's like legit, top clearance, like
Speaker 3: big deal counterintelligence guy came from like working on big missions.
Speaker 3: Not a dumb dumb, Not a dumb dumb. This guy
Speaker 3: isn't some guy. I'm probably saying this wrong, but I
Speaker 3: think he was about to be promoted to like lieutenant colonel,
Speaker 3: which is like super high up in the military. Like,
Speaker 3: this guy is not a joke. He's not some crazy person.
Speaker 3: But Grusha's like almost bulletproof.
Speaker 2: Like this guy's like legit, like a good guy for it.
Speaker 3: He was briefing Obama on counterintelligence measures like that. They
Speaker 3: don't get that responsibility doesn't go to it.
Speaker 2: Doesn't adding on their face.
Speaker 1: If this guy is completely has completely lost his mind,
Speaker 1: but somehow still sounds completely same when he's talking like,
Speaker 1: let's just run down bullet point some of the biggest
Speaker 1: claims that David Grush made to Congress.
Speaker 3: Can I start with my favorite one? Yes, Mussolini and
Speaker 3: this is no one's gonna believe this casual Listen, great start,
Speaker 3: I'm sorry. Mussolini, his Italia recovered a UFO in nineteen
Speaker 3: thirty three, and he's like saying this, like this is fact,
Speaker 3: Like the US government or whatever, this this special access program, whatever,
Speaker 3: this black project is, knows about this recovery in nineteen
Speaker 3: thirty three under Mussolini.
Speaker 1: And this is part of some bigger idea here where
Speaker 1: he's basically saying that for decades now, the government has
Speaker 1: had this secret program, a crash retreat, like a crash
Speaker 1: a UFO crash retrieval program where UAP have allegedly crashed
Speaker 1: on Earth and the US has scooped them up and
Speaker 1: tinkered with them and tried to figure out how they
Speaker 1: work and kept all this stuff a secret.
Speaker 2: It even goes beyond that.
Speaker 3: And this predates Roswell, which is the craziest.
Speaker 2: Rosseld is forty seven. You know, the.
Speaker 3: Biggest theory that I've always followed and always believed in
Speaker 3: is that we set off nuclear bomb tests in like
Speaker 3: nineteen forty six and forty seven. I don't I don't
Speaker 3: remember the exact date. You can look it up. It's
Speaker 3: on Wikipedia. It's Trinity test. We set off the bomb,
Speaker 3: the nuclear bomb test, and they came right. No, this
Speaker 3: predates this, This is nineteen thirty three. This is before so
Speaker 3: all that, like they're attracted to nuclear bombs, which they
Speaker 3: probably are, and nuclear energy and whatever, but this predates this.
Speaker 3: This is this is something before that. And what I
Speaker 3: think he's implied is that it's even older than that
Speaker 3: m hm, which I think I've I've thought for a
Speaker 3: while now, but.
Speaker 1: Either, I mean, they're huge claims that go for generations.
Speaker 1: Like basically, he's alleging that there is this black program,
Speaker 1: this hidden secret program that's that Congress and even the
Speaker 1: President most of the time, if not damn near all
Speaker 1: the time, is not privy to where they are keeping
Speaker 1: the secret that we know extratrustural life not only exists,
Speaker 1: but has been here and maybe even is here, and
Speaker 1: we have crafts. And the way he phrases it is biologics.
Speaker 3: Non human intelligence.
Speaker 2: Biologics of non human intelligence, meaning.
Speaker 3: Cadavers insanity and you can look past that though, like that,
Speaker 3: you can sure dismiss that.
Speaker 2: Go ahead in all the services. This sounds you know,
Speaker 2: it sounds nuts, right.
Speaker 3: But what did he do? He got in a congressional hearing.
Speaker 3: He got both sides of the spectrum, both sides of
Speaker 3: the parties, both parties to agree. You got AOC, You
Speaker 3: got what's his name, Matt Gates. Matt Gates and AOC
Speaker 3: both like.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: And this goes into Brian Bender's whole first article that
Speaker 3: he wrote about this in twenty seventeen where he's like, Okay,
Speaker 3: where is all this money going? Right, that's the real issue.
Speaker 3: This is taxpayer money going somewhere else that it's hidden.
Speaker 3: AOC is like, whoa, Okay, I don't care about the
Speaker 3: alien stuff, but like what I gathered from her Congressional
Speaker 3: Oversight Committee testimony and questioning is where is this money
Speaker 3: that the taxpayers are putting in? Why is this going
Speaker 3: to some secret private entity, no matter what it is, right, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 3: it doesn't matter, It doesn't matter what it's for. This
Speaker 3: is a problem.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: And then you got Matt Gates kind of saying the
Speaker 3: same thing. Yeah, got both sides of the writer or
Speaker 3: blue kind of coming together on this being like, yo,
Speaker 3: we need to dig further into this sentence freaking out
Speaker 3: about this a little bit, at least some of them.
Speaker 1: If you remember back to Highest Trained season one, we
Speaker 1: featured two journalists pretty prominently, Leslie Kane and Brian Bender,
Speaker 1: and they would chime in kind of throughout the whole
Speaker 1: series with great insight on different details and aspects and
Speaker 1: just a little historical factoids about the UFO story in
Speaker 1: American culture. They were also two of the journalists who
Speaker 1: broke a really big story years ago that kind of
Speaker 1: blew the lid off of this conversation in the mainstream
Speaker 1: with the New York Times and Political And we met
Speaker 1: with Leslie Kane a couple of times, and she always
Speaker 1: sort of kind of hinted at there being some other
Speaker 1: big thing coming, which is what every UFO person does.
Speaker 2: Ever, I feel like, but I believed it.
Speaker 3: This time you talked to the right person. I think
Speaker 3: you do know more.
Speaker 1: And sure enough, though she's the first person to technically
Speaker 1: break this David Grush story, the guy who came out
Speaker 1: with these big claims about this secret government project going on.
Speaker 1: And yeah, and so we actually talked to Brian Bender
Speaker 1: again recently and gracious for his time, just to kind
Speaker 1: of catch up on what's all happened since then. And
Speaker 1: I always enjoyed the way that he pragmatically broke things down,
Speaker 1: and it wasn't always as it's He didn't always make
Speaker 1: it about aliens, right, And maybe it is aliens and
Speaker 1: it's the way that we think that they are. Maybe
Speaker 1: it is, and it's all these other dozens of things
Speaker 1: or thousands of things too. Maybe it's none of that,
Speaker 1: and we don't understand it either way. If there's something
Speaker 1: that we don't understand, I think that it's worth looking into.
Speaker 1: And he always had that sort of pragmatic, practical approach
Speaker 1: to it, which I really found refreshing. And so catching
Speaker 1: up with him was fun. And we're gonna play some
Speaker 1: clips of that for you guys in a little bit.
Speaker 3: Yeah. No, I really appreciate Brian, and I think I
Speaker 3: really love that he's mostly skeptical, even though he's he's
Speaker 3: heard some stuff. He's heard some stuff that I haven't
Speaker 3: even heard.
Speaker 2: Well, hearing is not seeing.
Speaker 1: It's what you want David Grush to come forward with,
Speaker 1: is physical video evidence, evidence, physical something you can see analyze. Now,
Speaker 1: you couldn't really ask for a more credible guy, right,
Speaker 1: a more credible person. No, but again, it's just you're
Speaker 1: going on somebody's word, and so that's a that's a
Speaker 1: big leap. And with claims this big, this new to
Speaker 1: us as a society, I think that it's only fair
Speaker 1: to be met with a little bit of scrutiny. But
Speaker 1: what if he's telling the damn truth? Oh if he could.
Speaker 1: I don't know if he is or not, but I
Speaker 1: will say this, he's pretty fucking believable. I mean he's
Speaker 1: not he's good at it.
Speaker 3: I guarantee you. If he could walk out on stage
Speaker 3: in on the News Nation interview and be like, hey, Ross,
Speaker 3: I brought a sample of a craft and it's metal
Speaker 3: that we've never seen before, he would do that. He
Speaker 3: just can't. You know, he's gotta he's gotta go through
Speaker 3: the Dopster process. He's got to get things cleared. Anything
Speaker 3: he talks about in public or on media, it has
Speaker 3: to be approved first.
Speaker 2: So what this process you're talking about?
Speaker 1: This is where he could get in trouble for divulging
Speaker 1: I guess top secretmation. Yeah, how does that work?
Speaker 2: Exactly? From how you know it, Like, so, what was
Speaker 2: he afraid of?
Speaker 3: So it's the it's weird, but it's I've only learned
Speaker 3: this semi recently since High Strange ended, episode eight ended.
Speaker 3: I've learned this afterwards because honestly, after our season ended,
Speaker 3: so much stuff happened and I really had to dive
Speaker 3: deep into this topic and be like, okay, wait, this
Speaker 3: is actually moving forward in a weird way I didn't expect,
Speaker 3: and almost in a synchronistic way. So with the dopster thing,
Speaker 3: basically he has to get approval from his higher ups.
Speaker 3: He's no longer working with them, he's no longer part
Speaker 3: of the military in any way I don't believe. But
Speaker 3: he has to go to the ic IG, which is
Speaker 3: the yeah yeah, yeah yeah, So it's with his higher up.
Speaker 3: It's in basically, just think an intelligence leader, right, the
Speaker 3: leader of the intelligence.
Speaker 2: To get permission, yeah or so.
Speaker 3: And the DOPSER stands for Defense Office of pre Publication
Speaker 3: and Security Review because he has the highest clearance level.
Speaker 3: And that's the thing. There's all these myths about how
Speaker 3: many clearance levels there are. So he has the highest
Speaker 3: level of security clearance. So he's trusted with the biggest
Speaker 3: secrets in our nation, right in amongst our nation. It
Speaker 3: has to be cleared because he was a former employee, right.
Speaker 2: These guys are trying to not go to jail basically, Yeah.
Speaker 3: Because if they release some classified information to the general
Speaker 3: public that is like treason.
Speaker 1: Yeah, whether the UFO part of it is true or not.
Speaker 1: If you divulge that, then you're going to jail.
Speaker 3: If you accidentally give away a missile system that we
Speaker 3: don't want our enemies to go about, some censor development
Speaker 3: that we've figured out that China or Russia, Iran doesn't
Speaker 3: know or doesn't have access to you. It's for national security.
Speaker 3: I get it. It's classified information. You have to get
Speaker 3: stuff approved before you can talk about it. But he
Speaker 3: before his congressional hearing, he did adopts her, got it cleared.
Speaker 3: Everything he talked about to news Nation in front of
Speaker 3: congressional hearing, Yeah, was cleared.
Speaker 1: And he's being very careful, but he could tell that
Speaker 1: he was, you know, he had just prepped himself on
Speaker 1: the scope of what he knew he could legally talk about.
Speaker 2: Or that's how it came across. At least.
Speaker 6: Yeah, they're saying it. It doesn't go against National Defense.
Speaker 6: To say anything that's in this brief, it doesn't necessarily
Speaker 6: mean it's true, but you're just allowed to talk about it.
Speaker 6: Doesn't interfere with what we're doing.
Speaker 5: Right.
Speaker 1: I got a chance to talk to Brian Bender about
Speaker 1: David Grush and this congressional hearing that Dylan and I
Speaker 1: got to attend in person, and because he's smarter than
Speaker 1: I am, he more eloquently breaks down some of the
Speaker 1: big key points of what David Grush was actually claiming.
Speaker 2: And when you.
Speaker 1: Analyze it, it's it's some pretty big stuff.
Speaker 2: Let's kick to it real quick.
Speaker 5: Brian.
Speaker 7: How you been, man?
Speaker 5: I'm good, I'm good.
Speaker 7: What's the latest in your world of journalism?
Speaker 5: So?
Speaker 8: Well, you know, I sometimes joke that I'm now a
Speaker 8: recovering journalist. So about a year ago I left journalism
Speaker 8: as a sort of daily full time reporter and editor.
Speaker 8: After I hate to admit it, but twenty for almost
Speaker 8: twenty five years, and I'm still writing. I'm still reporting,
Speaker 8: but I have a different day job where I'm now
Speaker 8: basically a Beltway bandit as they call it. So I'm
Speaker 8: a communications consultant, mostly helping tech startups and research universities
Speaker 8: navigate the federal government, so helping them tell their stories.
Speaker 8: And but I'm still writing, I'm still reporting. I'm a
Speaker 8: contributor to Political magazine, so working on a couple of
Speaker 8: sort of bigger projects for them. Uh so, you know,
Speaker 8: keeping busy, but a little bit of a different audience,
Speaker 8: but a lot of the same topics, national security, global affairs, politics,
Speaker 8: once in a while, UFOs, right, if I strip it,
Speaker 8: if I trip and fall into the rabbit hole.
Speaker 7: I just realized before we hopped on this call that
Speaker 7: the first time we talked was in Roswell, New Mexico
Speaker 7: at that event.
Speaker 5: And I never really.
Speaker 1: Asked you, I don't think, or at least it wasn't
Speaker 1: in the podcast, what your thoughts on that was? I mean,
Speaker 1: because it was for me, it was like, this is
Speaker 1: totally bizarre. Also, Roswell, New Mexico doesn't does not have
Speaker 1: enough restaurants. But but Applebee's was really.
Speaker 8: And that giant alien outside the Duncan Donuts to make
Speaker 8: it clear, it was a statue of an alien, not
Speaker 8: a real alien. You know, it's interesting, you know when
Speaker 8: I kind of stumbled into the UFO story in twenty seventeen,
Speaker 8: when I was part of that group of reporters initially
Speaker 8: got some inside information about some Pentagon research programs that
Speaker 8: had been going on that had been kind of secretly
Speaker 8: funded by Congress in recent years.
Speaker 5: I kind of pretty quickly made this this determination that
Speaker 5: I'm going to follow the money. So if the government's
Speaker 5: spending money on UFO research.
Speaker 8: Who's it going to, what's it for? Who are the
Speaker 8: key decision makers in Washington that are behind it. Because
Speaker 8: I was a political reporter, I mean, to me, that
Speaker 8: was the story for us.
Speaker 5: It's like, Okay, this is this is the political story.
Speaker 5: It's a policy story.
Speaker 8: People are really concerned about things that are out there,
Speaker 8: and I identified some of which seemed to defy what
Speaker 8: we know about physics, and I decided that I was
Speaker 8: not going to sort of go too far down the
Speaker 8: rabbit hole of like sightings and reports and testimonies, because
Speaker 8: obviously there's this whole cannon of ufology that you know,
Speaker 8: I once used to I once set on a panel
Speaker 8: that you know, I covered a little bit of the
Speaker 8: JFK assassination in terms of like the fight over the
Speaker 8: government files that we're still being withheld.
Speaker 5: And I used to think that was like a ball
Speaker 5: of yarn, But I hadn't met the world of ufology yet.
Speaker 5: It makes this cha assassination crowd look, you know exactly,
Speaker 5: but you know what, you know, my takeaway from Roswell
Speaker 5: and others is sort of like if UFO research could
Speaker 5: sort of start now and go forward and throw away
Speaker 5: all the stuff in the past, I think we could
Speaker 5: be more effective at actually finding some answers to some
Speaker 5: of these mysteries because just the level of scar tissue
Speaker 5: that exists in the.
Speaker 8: Different viewpoints on you know, was Roswell an alien crash,
Speaker 8: was it, you know, some military test? Was it a
Speaker 8: cover up? What happened there? I mean, it's just it's
Speaker 8: like it's almost impossible for a journalist in modern day
Speaker 8: to untangle that mythology versus fact.
Speaker 5: And you know, you saw that on display in Roswell.
Speaker 8: I mean I went to one of the panels, was like,
Speaker 8: you know, there's a lot of people on the panel.
Speaker 8: It was like forty white guys lined up all over
Speaker 8: the age of seventy and like they had like each
Speaker 8: of them had two different theories about what happened there. Right,
Speaker 8: they were adamant about it. You know, I mean, obviously
Speaker 8: I'm exaggerating a little bit. But you know, the journalist
Speaker 8: to me was like, I wouldn't even know how to
Speaker 8: write this story, right, No matter is there write the
Speaker 8: story of Roswell Bender.
Speaker 5: I mean, I'd be like, I don't even know where
Speaker 5: to start. But it's not on like religion.
Speaker 8: I mean, some people have their own sort of little
Speaker 8: lane in the world of ufology that they believe, and
Speaker 8: many of them have read millions of books and done
Speaker 8: all kinds of independent research, and they believe it as
Speaker 8: if it's gospel, and it's like nothing is going to
Speaker 8: change your mind. There's pretty widespread belief or kind of
Speaker 8: gut feeling that we are not alone in the universe
Speaker 8: as an intelligent species. Whatever species might mean, you know,
Speaker 8: elsewhere in the universe could mean something very different than
Speaker 8: what we think of. And I think you could also
Speaker 8: go a step further and say there's a decent amount
Speaker 8: of evidence, certainly circumstantial.
Speaker 5: It's not even more than that that they actually do
Speaker 5: exist somewhere in some way, because I mean it's hard to.
Speaker 8: Look back over history and even in ancient religions, I mean,
Speaker 8: so many references to some sort of heavenly beings coming here,
Speaker 8: you know, having some sort of role certainly in our
Speaker 8: sense of ourselves as a human race.
Speaker 5: And I tend to be among those who.
Speaker 8: Believe that, you know, whether smoke, there's fire, there probably
Speaker 8: is something that.
Speaker 5: Fits that description somewhere in the universe, far away or
Speaker 5: maybe not so far away.
Speaker 8: But then the second bucket I sort of think about
Speaker 8: is and this gets into some of the reporting that
Speaker 8: I was involved in, you know, the question of whether
Speaker 8: our government or governments of the world have some really
Speaker 8: solid answers to that question, or evidence of that that
Speaker 8: they've been hiding from us. I consider those sort of
Speaker 8: two different lanes, if you will, because I think you
Speaker 8: can believe that there are aliens, or there are extraterrestrials
Speaker 8: or some sort of form of intelligent life that for
Speaker 8: whatever reason we can't kind of put our finger on
Speaker 8: in a sort of convincing way where everybody's like, oh, yeah,
Speaker 8: of course they're here or they've been here. And I,
Speaker 8: you know, I'm in that camp, but I'm not yet convinced,
Speaker 8: like many people in the world of youthology, are that
Speaker 8: the evidence of that, the proof of that is somehow
Speaker 8: resident in some secret government agency or buried under Area
Speaker 8: fifty one and in the grandest conspiracy of all time.
Speaker 8: The US government, presumably in cohoots with other governments in
Speaker 8: the world, has kept that hidden from the global pump.
Speaker 8: I don't think that there's evidence of that.
Speaker 1: I would imagine that even though it's been on UFO,
Speaker 1: Twitter and shit on a bunch of front page everything
Speaker 1: all over the news circuit, some people have probably been
Speaker 1: living under a rock or just haven't heard about this yet.
Speaker 1: So to speak to them, just give me a little
Speaker 1: like short recap log line on.
Speaker 5: Yeah, David Grush, who are we talking about? So?
Speaker 8: David Grush is a now former intelligence official. He worked
Speaker 8: for the National Geospatial Intelligence Agency n GA, which is
Speaker 8: sort of one of the alphabet soup intelligence agencies really
Speaker 8: responsible for like you know, using space to map the Earth.
Speaker 8: But he was part of this Pentagon task Force that
Speaker 8: was set up by Congress a couple of years ago
Speaker 8: to you know, basically answer some of these questions like
Speaker 8: were there secret government programs that might know about, you know,
Speaker 8: extraterrestrial crashes, Were there are programs that could have been
Speaker 8: verse engineered where we learned some new technology from something
Speaker 8: that we recovered that we couldn't explain. So David Grush
Speaker 8: was part of that effort. Last year, he came forward
Speaker 8: publicly and also filed a request for an investigation through
Speaker 8: the Inspector General for the Intelligence Community, which is sort
Speaker 8: of like the internal watchdog over all the spy agencies.
Speaker 5: And his claims are that he talked to dozens of
Speaker 5: people on the inside with clearances like himself, who assert
Speaker 5: that the government did in fact have in its custody
Speaker 5: at some point UFO crash material and that there was
Speaker 5: an actual secret program to figure out how does that
Speaker 5: stuff work. He's made those claims publicly, he's testified before Congress.
Speaker 5: But he is the first to say that none of
Speaker 5: the some forty people that he says he talked to
Speaker 5: on the inside, or or you know, people that had
Speaker 5: real knowledge, does he have firsthand knowledge himself. In other words,
Speaker 5: he's never seen anything. He's never worked on such a program.
Speaker 5: He's hearing this from people who swear that this is
Speaker 5: the case.
Speaker 8: And when I say, I don't think there's evidence of
Speaker 8: these claims, you know, we don't know what these secret
Speaker 8: programs were, we don't know where they were run, we
Speaker 8: don't know how they were hidden. Now granted, they could
Speaker 8: all be secret deeply classified, and so that's why we
Speaker 8: don't know. But I also think we have to consider
Speaker 8: that one of the most common things humans do. You
Speaker 8: and I do it probably all the time in our
Speaker 8: daily lives, is play the game of telephone, which is
Speaker 8: I talked to somebody who knows my brother in law
Speaker 8: who works in the Secret Agency, who saw the alien
Speaker 8: bodies in the area fifty one. I have found in
Speaker 8: my reporting and getting to know some of the leading people,
Speaker 8: particularly former government officials, who really believe this.
Speaker 5: Who again will say I never sought myself.
Speaker 8: That they have fallen victim to a little bit of
Speaker 8: a game of telephone. It has gone on for decades,
Speaker 8: you know, sort of the water cooler talk, even at
Speaker 8: the CIA or at the Pentagon, where people hear these stories,
Speaker 8: and they.
Speaker 5: Hear them from people that are quite credible. I mean,
Speaker 5: they have security clearances, they're entrusted with our nation's secrets.
Speaker 5: But you know, I do think there is an element
Speaker 5: of this of sort of this echo chamber, if you will,
Speaker 5: that this is true, and it's always been true, and
Speaker 5: it's always been hidden, and I talk to the people
Speaker 5: who know about it, but yet we still haven't seen
Speaker 5: the goods and you know, and people say, well, if
Speaker 5: it's secret, why would we see the goods?
Speaker 8: Right, how would the government you know, bring itself to
Speaker 8: ever let us know? And my rejoinder to that is
Speaker 8: we get a lot of.
Speaker 5: Secrets to get leaked out of the government, tons of them, to.
Speaker 8: The point where they put people in jail for the
Speaker 8: rest of their lives.
Speaker 5: Right leaking stuff. So, if you know there was this
Speaker 5: grand conspiracy to hide evidence, real evidence of alien.
Speaker 8: Life, why have we not been able to figure it out?
Speaker 8: And you know, why haven't we been able to see
Speaker 8: the evidence. I'm not ruling out that it's possible that
Speaker 8: that has happened.
Speaker 5: Those programs did exist, there was a UFO crash. I'm
Speaker 5: just saying I'm not I'm just not convinced.
Speaker 8: Yet that that's the case, even though there's this whole
Speaker 8: sort of cultural phenomenon surrounding this that almost takes it
Speaker 8: as gospel.
Speaker 5: You know. You know, we watch a lot of Hollywood
Speaker 5: movies that that you know, underscore that, and I think,
Speaker 5: you know.
Speaker 8: It's a cultural issue as much as it is a
Speaker 8: sort of you know, national security issue.
Speaker 5: Right. We believe what we believe, and doesn't matter really
Speaker 5: what the facts are or the truth is, and I
Speaker 5: think we can't rule out that some government people have
Speaker 5: been have fallen victim to that too.
Speaker 1: Back to the claims that he's made, do you mind
Speaker 1: kind of untacking a few of those, And he mentioned
Speaker 1: some sort of biologics, crafts, and I mean alleging that
Speaker 1: aliens are real. We've seen the bodies, have the bodies,
Speaker 1: and we have crafts, and it's just all the things
Speaker 1: that Steven Spielberg wanted it to be.
Speaker 8: Right, Yeah, I mean he's basically his claims are that
Speaker 8: the government has hidden for decades secret programs that have
Speaker 8: known about When he says biologics like literally like biological materials,
Speaker 8: alien bodies or parts of alien bodies, also alien technology,
Speaker 8: and that there were programs, you know, to secretly try
Speaker 8: and understand how how does this stuff work?
Speaker 5: So that's the reverse.
Speaker 8: Engineering program that he claims or programs, any claims that
Speaker 8: these were hidden from even the highest levels of the government,
Speaker 8: that they were sort ofly buried in kind of the
Speaker 8: military industrial complex. And I say that because these claims
Speaker 8: also assert a role for defense companies, aerospace companies, the
Speaker 8: lockeed Martins or the North of Grumman's not then necessarily specifically,
Speaker 8: but the companies that had made the stealth bombers and
Speaker 8: all of those secret programs that you know were being
Speaker 8: developed for decades and in some cases were actually mistook
Speaker 8: for UFOs, right. I mean they were testing these things
Speaker 8: out in the desert, stealth bombers and drones and all
Speaker 8: those things. I mean, those things were being developed in
Speaker 8: secret for years, and I think it's important to sort
Speaker 8: of remember that because when you talk about secret alien technology,
Speaker 8: and if you're one who believes that the government does
Speaker 8: have it or has been working with something like that,
Speaker 8: you can't really divorce it from the other nether world
Speaker 8: of black programs. So billions of taxpayer dollars that have
Speaker 8: gone into develop next generation technology like the stealth fighter,
Speaker 8: the stealth bomber, you know, hypersonic missiles. I mean that
Speaker 8: budget has got up and up and up and up.
Speaker 8: We don't know kind of within it, but we know
Speaker 8: the overall numbers, and so there's a lot of secret
Speaker 8: technology development going on as we speak. Doesn't necessarily mean
Speaker 8: it has any relationship or connection to you know, ekey
Speaker 8: or alien technology, but if there were to be alien
Speaker 8: technology that we recovered or studied or something and somehow
Speaker 8: learned something that got led into some of those black programs.
Speaker 8: It's all the more reason for the government not to
Speaker 8: want to talk about it, to want to cover it up.
Speaker 8: But you know, you mentioned the House a recent House hearing,
Speaker 8: and the former pilots, you know, I think their testimony
Speaker 8: for me also fits into that first bucket I mentioned earlier.
Speaker 8: In other words, you know, David Grush, the whistleblower. Since
Speaker 8: the government is hiding all this stuff, but it's hard
Speaker 8: to dismiss those sightings of those navy pilots in their
Speaker 8: testimony and what they say they saw as.
Speaker 5: Real evidence of something really woo woo and really out there,
Speaker 5: really advanced. And you know, if they're.
Speaker 8: Not ours, and the government has said that that some
Speaker 8: of those things, those orbs, those spears, they call them
Speaker 8: tic TACs. They were like oblong shaped craft that you know,
Speaker 8: would go from one hundred thousand feet to the surface
Speaker 8: of the ocean in like a few seconds.
Speaker 5: Nothing that we could do. The government said they're not ours.
Speaker 8: And so the government is on the record saying that
Speaker 8: we're seeing stuff out there that we can't explain, and
Speaker 8: we're trying to explain it. But again that's different from
Speaker 8: the government already knows what these things are and it's
Speaker 8: just lying to us and you know, figured out all
Speaker 8: the answers.
Speaker 5: I think a lot of their reluctance to talk about
Speaker 5: the UFO issue is not because they have knowledge they
Speaker 5: don't want to share. It's because of the lack of knowledge.
Speaker 8: In other words, they know there's something out there and
Speaker 8: they can't really figure out what it is.
Speaker 5: And if you're in the intelligence business, you don't share secrets,
Speaker 5: but you also don't share information that you have that you.
Speaker 8: Haven't really put together yet either because you wouldn't want,
Speaker 8: you know, your potential enemies to know that. So I
Speaker 8: do think that, you know, the pilot's coming forward, it's
Speaker 8: really changed the conversation, and it made it a sort
Speaker 8: of more serious topic, like if we don't know what
Speaker 8: these things are, we damn well better find out. But
Speaker 8: you know, it's still it's still intriguing to me the
Speaker 8: possibility that there is there has been secret programs within
Speaker 8: our government that do know more and are not sharing more,
Speaker 8: And that to me, obviously would be huge story in
Speaker 8: and of itself, but it's also a huge story for
Speaker 8: our democracy. Because it would also be proof of a
Speaker 8: government within a government, because you have the House of
Speaker 8: Representative saying, tell us what you know. We have the
Speaker 8: head of the Pentagon saying, we don't know, but we're
Speaker 8: trying to find out. But meanwhile, you would have some
Speaker 8: sort of you know, nether world of government officials or
Speaker 8: contractors that sort of have all these goods, and even
Speaker 8: the leadership that we've elected to sort of oversee them
Speaker 8: are in the dark. So, like, you know, it's a
Speaker 8: good story that we have to keep tracking because of
Speaker 8: the implications of it if it were to be true,
Speaker 8: you know, not just what it would mean for you know,
Speaker 8: our presence in the universe, if we really did have
Speaker 8: evidence anew of another intelligent life form, but you know
Speaker 8: what it would mean for you know, our politics, that
Speaker 8: we sat on this for years and they were able
Speaker 8: to hide it even from the people that are supposed
Speaker 8: to know all the secrets.
Speaker 1: One more thing before I let you go, there is
Speaker 1: a video circulating on the internet that came out.
Speaker 2: A few days ago.
Speaker 1: It's a UFO video, an alleged UFHO video from the military,
Speaker 1: and it's being referred to as the Jellyfish.
Speaker 7: Have you seen this video. What are your thoughts on that?
Speaker 7: That was Corbel?
Speaker 8: Yeah, Jeremy Corbel is sort of kind of been a
Speaker 8: leader in you know, sort of plopping into the public
Speaker 8: discussion some really intriguing footage of things that you know,
Speaker 8: come out of the military or some government agency. He
Speaker 8: obviously had some sources that leads that stuff to him.
Speaker 8: But the thing that's always puzzling to me is like
Speaker 8: it's always usually it's a very small, peny, little clip, yeah,
Speaker 8: and I'm always saying, where's the rest of it?
Speaker 5: They just look at it for three seconds or three hours?
Speaker 5: And I was familiar.
Speaker 8: I had heard about the jellyfish a couple of years ago,
Speaker 8: like this sort of was going around like, oh, the
Speaker 8: Pentagon got you know, custody of some radar footage or
Speaker 8: done camera footage.
Speaker 5: I forget was of this jellyfish, of this very large tentacled.
Speaker 8: There was another one, I think it was a different
Speaker 8: one people called the chandelier that looked like a big
Speaker 8: chandelier hanging over the Persian Gulf in the Middle East.
Speaker 8: You know, pilots were seeing it and reporting it. They're intriguing,
Speaker 8: but taking in isolation, they don't really get us very far,
Speaker 8: it's like it's exciting, it's clickbait, you know people.
Speaker 5: You know, obviously, I.
Speaker 8: Understand why Jeremy Corbel wants to put these out there.
Speaker 8: It's great for his website, it's great for his brand.
Speaker 8: But in the grand scheme of things, is it really
Speaker 8: moving the ball. It's just like it's just like another
Speaker 8: shiny object, literally, like, let's look at that for five minutes.
Speaker 8: And you know, I think the next chapter in this
Speaker 8: if you want to go back to that or sort
Speaker 8: of the breaking point is and I think we're starting
Speaker 8: to see it. I don't think it'll be a breaking
Speaker 8: point in the sense it will be abrupt, but it
Speaker 8: will evolve, can continue to evolve.
Speaker 5: The topic of UFOs is.
Speaker 8: Now, I think, in a way much more mainstream and
Speaker 8: acceptable in sort of acceptable society. I mean, this is
Speaker 8: a little more imminent maybe than the next season.
Speaker 5: But you know, the Pentagon Office is supposed to release
Speaker 5: kind of volume one of its findings from the last
Speaker 5: few years, I think any day now, which is supposed
Speaker 5: to be sort of what are we learning from some
Speaker 5: of these military pilots, for example, what are we learning
Speaker 5: about the possible existence of you know, secret compartmentalized programs
Speaker 5: and we're hiding, you know, UFO material.
Speaker 8: It's also supposed to report back on like they were
Speaker 8: required by Congress to do a historical study, like go
Speaker 8: back seventy five years and try to figure out what
Speaker 8: might have been hidden. Interestingly, that study is also supposed
Speaker 8: to focus on any disinformation campaigns that our own government.
Speaker 5: Undertook on the topic of UFOs. And I think that's.
Speaker 8: Interesting too, because if you really did want to hide something,
Speaker 8: you don't just lock it in a box in a
Speaker 8: room somewhere and give three people with security clearance, you know,
Speaker 8: authority over it. You might do that, but I think
Speaker 8: if you really had a deep, dark secret, you also
Speaker 8: create around it so much bullshit, in so much.
Speaker 5: Conspiracy theories, yeah, so.
Speaker 8: Much noise that no one is ever going to find
Speaker 8: the room because they are going to be distracted by
Speaker 8: fifty thousand other things and other stories and other tales.
Speaker 8: And there's already evidence in terms of government documents that
Speaker 8: have been released that our government had a UFO disinformation campaign.
Speaker 8: Often it was to shield those black programs. I talked
Speaker 8: about the stealth bomber, the stealth fighter, I mean, the
Speaker 8: Soviet Union, the Russians were crawling all over America during
Speaker 8: the Cold War trying to figure out what are we
Speaker 8: up to?
Speaker 5: What's our next big weapon?
Speaker 8: And you know, there's evidence that we actually our government
Speaker 8: spread false UFO reports to drive the Russians crazy and also,
Speaker 8: you know, take people off the scent of maybe some
Speaker 8: truly secret thing that had nothing to do.
Speaker 5: With ET that we were working on.
Speaker 8: And so I'm interested to see what we're willing to
Speaker 8: cop to on that, what our government is willing to
Speaker 8: admit on that, because I think that's also muddled this
Speaker 8: issue in a way that makes it very very hard
Speaker 8: to unwind this ball of yard. People who care about this,
Speaker 8: the public needs the Marshal itself to figure out ways
Speaker 8: how do we gather more information, How do we on
Speaker 8: our own study these reports and see if we can
Speaker 8: figure something out.
Speaker 1: It makes me question why someone like David Grush would
Speaker 1: make something up like this that's so complex. I mean,
Speaker 1: people do weird shit for weird reasons that you don't understand.
Speaker 1: That's that's so effect. But this person is a decorated
Speaker 1: individual and government and intelligence in the intelligence community, and
Speaker 1: I don't see what he really has to gain. He
Speaker 1: can't really has stuff to lose. If this is all
Speaker 1: for a book deal, that's pretty shitty.
Speaker 3: Can we go Can we go into that? Let's go
Speaker 3: into why would he? Why about this? Also, we met
Speaker 3: only only if he believes it. Do you want to
Speaker 3: go into how we met him?
Speaker 2: Oh?
Speaker 1: Yeah, and how he didn't bring any of this up
Speaker 1: to h Okay, Actually, well that's a big we'll play
Speaker 1: a clip of this actually, so. Brian Bender mentioned a
Speaker 1: man named Jeremy Corbel, who if if you're not aware
Speaker 1: of who this individual is, in my eyes, he's kind
Speaker 1: of like he is like the new UFO guy. Yeah,
Speaker 1: he's the UFO He's just most of this stuff right now. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but like there's there's been another UFO guy. There's there's
Speaker 1: also George Knapp. Yeah but no, but like right now,
Speaker 1: like this is the He is on the pulse of
Speaker 1: all things UFO UAP and tends to get all of
Speaker 1: the government leaks and clearly has some great relationships with
Speaker 1: secret sources and has broken a lot of big stories
Speaker 1: in in the UFO genre.
Speaker 5: Here.
Speaker 1: I recently sat down and interviewed Jeremy Corbel, which I've
Speaker 1: been trying to do for a long time. Actually, we
Speaker 1: were trying to in view Jeremy well over a year
Speaker 1: ago while we were making High Stream Season one. Mike
Speaker 1: and I actually flew to Vegas. If you remember in
Speaker 1: the first season when we went to Area fifty one,
Speaker 1: it was the same time that we were there, and
Speaker 1: we simultaneously stated this hotel in Vegas and attended this
Speaker 1: Star Trek conference. We're not Drekky's. I don't really even
Speaker 1: know much about.
Speaker 2: Star Trek for yourself. I'm not saying that it's not bad.
Speaker 1: I just you know, I was like, didn't feel like
Speaker 1: I was a diehard fan enough, Like William Shatner was there,
Speaker 1: it was the whole thing.
Speaker 2: It was cool to see.
Speaker 1: Yeah, But Jeremy Corbell was there with another journalist, George Knapp,
Speaker 1: who we've used some clips from his some of his
Speaker 1: journalism and season one, and they spoke on a panel
Speaker 1: and my plan was to hopefully, you know, grab him
Speaker 1: afterwards and have a sit down with him, but he
Speaker 1: was super busy, like most people are in the world,
Speaker 1: and we had to postponent. But I realized, I'll play
Speaker 1: this clip, I'll play this clip from the interview in
Speaker 1: a second. But I realized that in my interview with him.
Speaker 1: He was describing that scene where we met after the
Speaker 1: panel in Vegas and we were at the elevator. He goes,
Speaker 1: you know who I was with that day, right? I
Speaker 1: was like, you know, George Nap and he goes, no,
Speaker 1: the other guy, David. I was like, oh, yeah, the David,
Speaker 1: the tall guy, right.
Speaker 2: Yeah. He's like that was David Grush.
Speaker 1: And I was like, and David Grush, me and the
Speaker 1: guy at the congressional hearing the guy who's started a
Speaker 1: whole brand new conversation about this, And in that moment,
Speaker 1: I go, holy shit, you're right.
Speaker 2: I see his face now, yeah, and he is.
Speaker 1: Tall as shit, and I hear his voice and I go,
Speaker 1: I'm I'm in the uber back to the airport and
Speaker 1: I text both of you guys, I go go dig
Speaker 1: up that tape because I was also like secretly recording
Speaker 1: all that, which I told him at the end that
Speaker 1: I was doing that. I said, go play that tape
Speaker 1: back and go to this moment, and I was doing
Speaker 1: it on dropbox and I was like, holy ship, that's
Speaker 1: his voice, that's him.
Speaker 5: We'll figure it all out.
Speaker 9: Oh you pay, Yeah, he tells me the layout for it.
Speaker 10: I'm gonna suggest some guests that I can get him
Speaker 10: in contact with.
Speaker 4: It's like an audio escape thing.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it'll be the documentary version, right, Yeah, I want
Speaker 1: to help you.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's gonna be. I wouldn't waste your time.
Speaker 1: If I didn't think this is my bodyguard, Dave, he
Speaker 1: don't be my ass have a special friends.
Speaker 2: You don't need a bodyguard.
Speaker 5: But I know he probably could beat.
Speaker 1: Yeah. The thing that we're working on is gonna be
Speaker 1: just targeted towards breaking the stigma and kind of just
Speaker 1: self acknowledging just like, yeah, we're self aware. I guess
Speaker 1: it's aliens and silly, but is it though, Like you know,
Speaker 1: what's really up is the entire toe of the whole thing.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I think that will resonate with just everyone. Yeah, and
Speaker 1: I think that it could be a way to.
Speaker 2: Just push the narrative forward.
Speaker 10: And I'm sure we have find time for a beer
Speaker 10: or yeah, off in the dark lights.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I saw.
Speaker 5: For the first time.
Speaker 7: We're all doing later later tonight.
Speaker 9: I don't know yet, okay, because we we Yeah, we
Speaker 9: might be going to you know z Yeah, like I'm
Speaker 9: like fighting with his manager really well, like so I
Speaker 9: could probably get us all back to it like I
Speaker 9: used to in.
Speaker 5: A different way, but used to like laser letting designer,
Speaker 5: I used to you.
Speaker 2: Yeah, still very cool, you know yeah, if that's real, that's.
Speaker 1: The this for like an hour, Like it might be
Speaker 1: a fun little thing if you get it on school
Speaker 1: we run out of stuff to do.
Speaker 5: I don't know. Yeah, you know what I mean.
Speaker 2: That's much came on my scene.
Speaker 11: He's super cool after I left you, like.
Speaker 5: When they came.
Speaker 8: The previously before some other things I forget, yeah, some other.
Speaker 2: Hey, great talk to that was awesome.
Speaker 1: It's a weird thing that, uh, this guy who comes
Speaker 1: up with this what could potentially be a life altering
Speaker 1: story and the upho narrative was right there next to us.
Speaker 1: And we've also been trying to reach him for like months.
Speaker 1: But now hey, now we we know that we're only
Speaker 1: one degree away.
Speaker 3: Also, David is standing right talking just out of my
Speaker 3: eyeballs talking to me about Z and you're inviting him
Speaker 3: to the Z show. Yeah, which is just.
Speaker 2: I'm dude, you're going to go to the Z concert?
Speaker 3: Dude, Like I don't know you, but you should come.
Speaker 1: Like sounds like I was being lamb, but no, like
Speaker 1: we you know, we were Tim Smith. Actually you know
Speaker 1: Tim speaking of Tim Smith. If you're hearing this, this
Speaker 1: guy is amazing.
Speaker 2: He's Z's managers.
Speaker 1: And scrillics and among other people, he does his big
Speaker 1: he does cool, cooler ship than I do. He was
Speaker 1: in Vegas the same the same time we were, and
Speaker 1: we met up with him and he's like, hey, you
Speaker 1: guys want to go to backstage Z?
Speaker 2: And I was like, I mean, what is that a question?
Speaker 1: And so I was clearly like, hey, guys, like you
Speaker 1: want to go backstage to Z. Turns out it was
Speaker 1: actually even cooler than I was even talking about it was,
Speaker 1: I mean, in his DJ It wasn't backstage we were.
Speaker 1: I was DJing by her. Touch his button, Yeah, I
Speaker 1: could touch his butt. I could have actually know. I
Speaker 1: did give him my hat. He threw it into the
Speaker 1: aid you told him to a little known story actually
Speaker 1: about Tim Smith is that this man who is amazing love,
Speaker 1: this guy Z's manager. He is actually the sole reason
Speaker 1: that I was ever able to talk to Travis Walton.
Speaker 1: I told him I was doing this this show a
Speaker 1: long time ago when kind of when I first met him,
Speaker 1: I think, and you know, he's into the topic and
Speaker 1: I was keeping him up to speed, and somehow Travis
Speaker 1: Walton came up. He's like, you know, actually I know
Speaker 1: that guy. I met him before. I was like, what
Speaker 1: do you mean. He's like, yeah, I met him a
Speaker 1: conference or something and he's a Tim is a big
Speaker 1: UFO guy, and I guess made the connection with him.
Speaker 1: And remember that day when we were waiting on Travis
Speaker 1: Walton to come and we thought he was never coming,
Speaker 1: and I really, I mean I was texting Tim, and
Speaker 1: I to this day think that Tim sent a text
Speaker 1: to Travis in like helped change his mind because he
Speaker 1: was very late. And that's all good, but I think
Speaker 1: that he was having doubts and about wanting to do it,
Speaker 1: and I talked about that in the podcast.
Speaker 2: I just let that little detail out.
Speaker 1: Jeremy Corbel has insight unlike most people do in this
Speaker 1: space unless you are part of the government, because he
Speaker 1: has relationships with these people who have leaked videos, the
Speaker 1: stuff that's spawned some of the biggest articles you've heard
Speaker 1: and seen and read online. I sat down and talked
Speaker 1: to him and it is an amazing, eye opening conversation
Speaker 1: and I want you to go check it out on
Speaker 1: my weekly show called Talking to death, and I know
Speaker 1: it's annoying you have to go click another app and
Speaker 1: all that stuff. But in the meantime, while we're working
Speaker 1: on High Straine season two, every week on my weekly show,
Speaker 1: we talk about stuff like this, sometimes talk about true crime,
Speaker 1: talk about UFOs, tab about aliens, And if you want
Speaker 1: to just follow along as we're building these shows and
Speaker 1: actually working on High Strange, that's how you could do it.
Speaker 1: So if you want to check out the full interview
Speaker 1: of Jeremy Corbel, which I think you really.
Speaker 3: Should, it's worth checking out with me.
Speaker 1: It's one of the better ones that he's done, mostly
Speaker 1: because I felt like he was just open with stuff,
Speaker 1: and I even asked him what I felt like were
Speaker 1: some real, rational, harder questions, and he had good answers
Speaker 1: for them.
Speaker 2: I asked Jeremy.
Speaker 1: Corbel what he thinks, in his opinion, is the most interesting,
Speaker 1: compelling footage of UFOs out there, which is a big question,
Speaker 1: because there's a bunch of shit out there and a
Speaker 1: bunch of nonsense and a bunch of stuff that might
Speaker 1: be real that we don't know.
Speaker 2: So I asked him this, and this is what he said.
Speaker 1: What do you think personally is the most compelling evidence
Speaker 1: of extra trest life personally.
Speaker 10: First question that I've asked every single person I've ever
Speaker 10: tried to, like interview. I was so naive. I'd say,
Speaker 10: what's the best tell me personally what it is?
Speaker 4: And it's never. It's never.
Speaker 10: That's what I want when I talk to people, but
Speaker 10: it's never as satisfying because the.
Speaker 1: Real Like to you, I know, I'm gonna get your answer, bro,
Speaker 1: I know it.
Speaker 2: Okay, what is it?
Speaker 4: Are you ready? It sucks? Okay?
Speaker 2: What is it?
Speaker 10: It is the preposterous preponderance and the weight of the
Speaker 10: cumulative evidence and my personal experiences that gives me the
Speaker 10: most powerful feeling of that is the evidentiary domination of it.
Speaker 10: It's the culmination over decades and the preposterous preponderance of evidence.
Speaker 10: And we could break that down for your views. What
Speaker 10: does that mean? Everything from multisensor platforms to like, yeah,
Speaker 10: I mean, I could like point to one thing that
Speaker 10: I think is pretty good.
Speaker 2: Yeah, just like one case. Yeah, yeah, give me one case. Yeah.
Speaker 4: Sure.
Speaker 10: I think the least valued and the highest return on
Speaker 10: a case is looking at the twenty nineteen UFO swarm
Speaker 10: events over the ten Navy warships. The story that George
Speaker 10: and I broke with unparalleled multisensor, multi platform footage that
Speaker 10: we were able to obtain and release. That twenty nineteen
Speaker 10: case is a pinnacle of what we should be doing
Speaker 10: with getting different types of data, getting a wide spectrum
Speaker 10: of people that all experience the same series of events.
Speaker 10: It is a powerful case, and I have done all
Speaker 10: the damn leg work, and other people now can jump
Speaker 10: in and do some of that. I provided it on
Speaker 10: a silver platter. I've got other cases I'm working on.
Speaker 10: If people dug into that, they would have an unparalleled case.
Speaker 10: That case is so important. This is the night vision
Speaker 10: one has night vision. It was thermal, it was radar,
Speaker 10: and it was deck footage, and it was ten warships
Speaker 10: in twenty nineteen swarm by over one hundred UFOs simultaneously
Speaker 10: coming from the west, and there's nothing out there but Hawaii.
Speaker 10: They don't know where they came from, they don't know
Speaker 10: where they went. They were trans medium have helicopter pilots
Speaker 10: that saw them go into the water. You got people
Speaker 10: that fought the ships that literally came on and gave
Speaker 10: me their audio on my podcast telling what they experienced.
Speaker 10: That case is profound, and our government says we still
Speaker 10: don't know who operated those devices, those units as they
Speaker 10: call them UAP.
Speaker 2: That's a big one.
Speaker 4: It's a big one.
Speaker 1: And the skeptics would say that it was a bouquet
Speaker 1: or something in the lens.
Speaker 4: Well, again, I love skeptics. You're talking about debunkers.
Speaker 1: Okay, I guess you would say a debunker and that
Speaker 1: and that defunkers.
Speaker 4: Yeah, but I don't listen to what yeah, i'd say,
Speaker 4: because they're.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I've just seen both sides of the story and
Speaker 1: i've kind of but to me, having looked at it,
Speaker 1: i've seen that video one visually, it also is just
Speaker 1: to me instantaneously compelling.
Speaker 10: So that's the green triangle looking footage. Yes, by angle
Speaker 10: of observation. Who's green? So triangle by angle of observation.
Speaker 10: So what is a four dimensional triangle? Well, that would
Speaker 10: be probably a pyramid. Now when I said, oh, yeah,
Speaker 10: they were reported as pyramid in shape, I didn't pull
Speaker 10: that out of thin air. Right now, I can't put
Speaker 10: out everything that comes my way, but I will tell
Speaker 10: you on record that is in classified documents that there's
Speaker 10: other sensor systems that they had and they were pyramid
Speaker 10: and shape and there you go. But people can take
Speaker 10: a piece of this cup and tear it off and
Speaker 10: put it to the side and then hide the rest
Speaker 10: of the cup and be like, see it's not a cup. Yeah,
Speaker 10: but that's a piece of a cup. That's what they're
Speaker 10: doing intentionally. I'm telling people, if you look at the
Speaker 10: totality of the twenty nineteen storm events, which is an
Speaker 10: example of these swarms that are occurring all around the
Speaker 10: world to this day, and I have other cases of it,
Speaker 10: and I've said one before and it was off the
Speaker 10: coast of Japan. I did that on want With podcast.
Speaker 10: People should dig into that. There have been so many
Speaker 10: and I have so many first ten witnesses, some of
Speaker 10: whom are leaving military now and will come forward with
Speaker 10: telling exactly what they need about it. But everything happens
Speaker 10: on its own time. With that, I can't control that
Speaker 10: absolutely case.
Speaker 1: It's a huge decision that they're making too if if
Speaker 1: they're leaving.
Speaker 10: Because we see what happens to people that raise their head.
Speaker 10: Davidsh you just try to king call. Yeah, but he's
Speaker 10: a tough motherfucker.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I will say. David Grush is also really well spoken.
Speaker 1: I think and just articulate. So, you know, regardless of
Speaker 1: you know, if what he's saying is true or not, Damn,
Speaker 1: they got a good person saying it.
Speaker 10: Yeah, we're real, right, were We're lucky to have somebody
Speaker 10: like David Grush. There's articulate. David Grush is fastidious. He
Speaker 10: is also has an incredible memory. He is well oriented
Speaker 10: to be in the roles that he was in, which
Speaker 10: was you know, national security intelligence. Uh, you know, he
Speaker 10: was a high ranking intelligence officer, career guy. He's the
Speaker 10: kind of guy you want protecting America. He's the kind
Speaker 10: of guy that was in a position to know and
Speaker 10: see these black programs. He's the guy that uncovered with
Speaker 10: you know, dozens of witnesses these UFO or non human
Speaker 10: intelligence craft being reverse engineered, that kind of thing. And
Speaker 10: then he pushed over those sources, like he says, up
Speaker 10: to forty and he put them over to another investigation
Speaker 10: into the ic IG intelligence community inspector general like the
Speaker 10: police of the intelligence community. They then did their own investigation,
Speaker 10: found it to be both credible and urgent, and obviously
Speaker 10: found what he said to be not only credible and urgent,
Speaker 10: but relevant and not a lie. So really, we're lucky
Speaker 10: to have David Greesh having come forward to the degree
Speaker 10: he has. There's more he could do, but he has
Speaker 10: to bide by the law. Does not want to hurt
Speaker 10: the United States of America, So how do you do it?
Speaker 10: And he's trying to do it the right way, you know. Famously,
Speaker 10: if you're in intelligence, you have to assume you're being
Speaker 10: lied to, you know, by people in intelligence, Like our
Speaker 10: government hasn completely tried to keep this on the d
Speaker 10: L and I get that for some time for good reason.
Speaker 10: But we're past that now. So I'm really hoping that
Speaker 10: the new Director of Varro makes a point to be
Speaker 10: honest with the American public because the truth will be
Speaker 10: told eventually. And I know that because people have gone
Speaker 10: to the IC, I G. This cops of the intelligence agencies,
Speaker 10: and they have presented what they know and it is undeniable.
Speaker 10: So now it's just a matter of falling up on it.
Speaker 10: So the truth will come out. And if you're going
Speaker 10: to be remembered in history, because you've got the hubris
Speaker 10: and the little you know, coat pins, and you want
Speaker 10: to be remembered in history, don't fucking lie.
Speaker 4: How about that start there? Honest with the American public.
Speaker 10: I just know that certain truths will come out easy
Speaker 10: way or hard way, and I am all down for
Speaker 10: the hard way, and so are other people. It ain't pretty, though,
Speaker 10: it would be nice if it came out in a
Speaker 10: controlled way where this disclosure process is when we can
Speaker 10: get to a point where we point the finger at
Speaker 10: each other and being like, we can have difference of opinion,
Speaker 10: but when we're all in it together, we have some
Speaker 10: consensus that this is worthy of us looking at You're
Speaker 10: gonna see that completely unravel. You're gonna see I mean,
Speaker 10: I'm not a predictive person. I don't know when my
Speaker 10: coffee pot's going off. But I imagine that if we
Speaker 10: stop this kind of weird infighting and just try to
Speaker 10: look at the truth together, it will be abundantly clear
Speaker 10: that there's there's a true mystery here and we could
Speaker 10: benefit from looking at it together. We've been ignoring it
Speaker 10: for quite some time. We've been that guy, you know,
Speaker 10: on the corner of the table, sitting dying it. Really yeah,
Speaker 10: going along with everybody, you know, what's easier to feel
Speaker 10: like we do know everything. But that's always never been true.
Speaker 10: That's never why is it true? Now all of a sudden,
Speaker 10: it isn't yeah right, I don't. I think that's a
Speaker 10: weird burden, Like I am wrong more than I'm right right.
Speaker 4: But the thing is, see.
Speaker 1: That's how I know that you're is if you've ever
Speaker 1: been wrong, yeah, or unless you're always right, then have
Speaker 1: you ever had that moment where you're like, you're a
Speaker 1: kid right and you fucking you like fight for somebody
Speaker 1: like I know for sure they said left and not right,
Speaker 1: and then you just get a complete like you were
Speaker 1: totally wrong.
Speaker 4: Have you ever had that experience? Y?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 4: Did you learn from that?
Speaker 5: Ah?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't ever want to feel that way again.
Speaker 4: Okay, I learned that.
Speaker 10: Holy shit, I got a triple check things quadrup will
Speaker 10: check them. Because we are all flawed, we have a
Speaker 10: chance to be wrong absolutely, So you always put that
Speaker 10: in front of the mind.
Speaker 4: Yeah, you know, you gotta check yourself.
Speaker 10: Always and have other people do it for you to
Speaker 10: help you.
Speaker 3: Jeremy gets so much hate on Reddit and on Twitter
Speaker 3: that he's a grifter, that he's just saying stuff and
Speaker 3: he's believing stuff that people tell him. Bro, this is
Speaker 3: one of the most sincere dudes I've ever talked to
Speaker 3: and he's not tricking anyone.
Speaker 2: He believes us.
Speaker 3: People come to him with information that they trust him
Speaker 3: with and he keeps them anonymous, and he doesn't put
Speaker 3: it out right away and he might sit on stuff
Speaker 3: that he's known about forever. The UFO people are turning
Speaker 3: against him and like, oh, he's just a dude, saying
Speaker 3: like next time, But like, no, this guy wants all
Speaker 3: the same stuff we want. He wants disclosure, He wants
Speaker 3: this stuff to come out. He wants he wants to
Speaker 3: out every source that's ever came to him, but he can't.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he's in the business of furthering this.
Speaker 3: You have to gain trust and to keep trust, and
Speaker 3: to keep other sources coming to you anonymously. You have
Speaker 3: to respect the current ones you have right now. And
Speaker 3: he does that and he's very sincere.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and you know, and like I I asked him
Speaker 1: hard questions, normal hard questions.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 1: If I were to say hey, X y Z, and
Speaker 1: you're like, holy shit, that sounds unbelievable. You know, you'd
Speaker 1: be like to tell me more, or what do you
Speaker 1: mean or how do you know? And I was asking
Speaker 1: those kind of questions, and I feel like, you know,
Speaker 1: those are questions that are probably annoying, but he also
Speaker 1: knows the value of those questions. And I had never
Speaker 1: in it at all. Was trying to, you know, catch
Speaker 1: him in something. I wanted him to take the time
Speaker 1: to explain one more detail that might be like, and
Speaker 1: I was looking for myself. I was like, if I'm
Speaker 1: a little bit skeptical, help me get there. I believe you,
Speaker 1: but I'm also you know, if it's I deal with
Speaker 1: true crime, you know, and that comes down to the
Speaker 1: court of law sometimes right facts evidence, you know, statements,
Speaker 1: witness testimony, shit that you can present to a jury
Speaker 1: to make your argument.
Speaker 2: And I really enjoyed that we were able to have
Speaker 2: that kind of conversation.
Speaker 1: Of course, he had only great answers, because that's who
Speaker 1: he is. He's not bullshitting. It's a it's a weird
Speaker 1: topic because you know, we don't know where this is
Speaker 1: going to go. But every time I get lost in
Speaker 1: it again and I'm like, god, man, like, if it
Speaker 1: was real, we would just know by now. I think
Speaker 1: of the exact opposite. For a second, I go, Man,
Speaker 1: if it wasn't real, Man, wouldn't this.
Speaker 2: Just be over by now?
Speaker 5: Yeah?
Speaker 2: I like, think about all.
Speaker 1: The things that we proved to be wrong, there's a lot, Yeah,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean, Like, how is this one
Speaker 1: still so persistent? For as much as we know, it's
Speaker 1: almost like the ideas only become more likely and more possible.
Speaker 1: And that's maddening to think about, especially if it weren't true.
Speaker 1: What does it even say about us as humans? If
Speaker 1: if we were just imagining all this shit at this point,
Speaker 1: or what is it that we're experiencing that we're filling
Speaker 1: all these gaps for? I think that becomes a crazier
Speaker 1: concept than there being something beyond this earth, whatever that
Speaker 1: means in existence, that is more intelligent and it has
Speaker 1: been here for longer. We love making this show, and
Speaker 1: we love making these roundtable episodes, and I swear to
Speaker 1: God every every week we have been reminding ourselves we
Speaker 1: need to go make a roundtable right now, just like
Speaker 1: just just to do it and have faith in us,
Speaker 1: because we have been hard at work on investigating news
Speaker 1: stories for the second season and it's actually finally shaping
Speaker 1: up and it's it's becoming a thing.
Speaker 3: I'm not gonna lie what This might be my favorite
Speaker 3: thing to do.
Speaker 2: You're so good at it. It's good. It's good. Hey,
Speaker 2: look he said it. Keep this part in.
Speaker 1: We most certainly have plans to make a second season
Speaker 1: of High Straine, So I'll just go ahead and officially
Speaker 1: say that I don't have a timeline for you yet,
Speaker 1: but I can tell you that we've already been working
Speaker 1: on it. We never really put it down. Since we stopped.
Speaker 1: It almost seemed like High Strained Season one broke the
Speaker 1: broke the seal for us and kind of kicked down
Speaker 1: the door for some of the people we've wanted to
Speaker 1: talk to since day one anyway, and the conversation is evolving.
Speaker 1: And I always looked at High Strained Season one as
Speaker 1: a sort of a baby step to this concept, even
Speaker 1: for myself, just to sort of put it all wrapped
Speaker 1: up in a bow and let's just talk about what
Speaker 1: the hell is going on? And I feel like if
Speaker 1: you were riding with me the whole time in season one,
Speaker 1: that we're probably in a similar spot. No matter where
Speaker 1: you land, that there's something going on right.
Speaker 3: You can't deny it.
Speaker 1: And so the conversation's not dead, it's only more alive
Speaker 1: than ever. And I had a thought that conceptually for
Speaker 1: Highest Trained Season two, a lot of people have emailed
Speaker 1: me and they've said stuff like, you know, is this
Speaker 1: just like an American thing?
Speaker 2: Right?
Speaker 1: All the stories we covered were mostly American stories, besides
Speaker 1: the Renulstrum incident, which was the American military but happened
Speaker 1: in the UK. But I can really see how just
Speaker 1: the the folklore around UFOs Area fifty one, you know,
Speaker 1: the US government's flying saucers, a lot of that stems
Speaker 1: from American pop culture.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 1: But the crazy thing is, and I've learned this even
Speaker 1: more since the season ended, is that it's a legitimate
Speaker 1: worldwide thing.
Speaker 2: Absolutely, it's happening in every.
Speaker 1: Single fucking country you can think of. And I think
Speaker 1: a lot of those stories to me almost hold more
Speaker 1: weight because it just goes against the pop culture hoax
Speaker 1: sort of concept that we lean into when it seems
Speaker 1: too good to be true. Here and please please go
Speaker 1: check out Talking to Death, my weekly show.
Speaker 2: We all three work on this show.
Speaker 1: Every interview that you hear on that show, we've all
Speaker 1: been in the fucking room and it's a fun array
Speaker 1: of people and we do talk about UFOs with people
Speaker 1: you would never expect us to.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, So go check out Talking to Death right now.
Speaker 1: My My true crime show, which is how it's all
Speaker 1: started up and Vanished is out and so we're doing
Speaker 1: these intros. In the beginning of the Talking to Death episode,
Speaker 1: we're breaking down that. So if you haven't heard Up
Speaker 1: and Vanished, go check that out. But yeah, we're coming back.
Speaker 1: We never left you, we always loved you, and please,
Speaker 1: you know, talk to us. It's an EMAO like follow
Speaker 1: us on social media at High Strange, tell us what
Speaker 1: you think, and we may or may not respond.
Speaker 2: We'll post this jellyfish UFO video.
Speaker 1: On the instagram, the High Strange Instagram.
Speaker 2: It is. It is weird looking. It's like, I don't
Speaker 2: I don't know what it looks.
Speaker 1: It doesn't look like a traditional UFO in the way
Speaker 1: that you are probably imagining it.
Speaker 2: It looks like some it looks like a jellyfish.
Speaker 3: Well have you seen the peanut butter one?
Speaker 2: What the peanut but the peanut butter? Is this a
Speaker 2: is this a bad joke? Okay, what's the punch one? Yeah? Yeah,
Speaker 2: I can't wait. When does it get funny?
Speaker 3: Well, it's the peanut butter in a jellyfish incident.
Speaker 2: Oh my peanut butter. Wow, this is how this is.
Speaker 2: We went too long. You know, we talked for too long.
Speaker 1: We have fried our brains everybody, but no, in all seriousness,
Speaker 1: thank you for being patient with us. We love you, guys,
Speaker 1: and we will see you very soon. Go check out
Speaker 1: Talking to Death. The Jeremy Corbell interview is all about
Speaker 1: UFOs and I know you'll love it.
Speaker 3: Thanks, Thank you for being a friend.
Speaker 6: Thanks, go to spaceship Space, Big White.
Speaker 12: Lets you name a habitat and smoke a need A
Speaker 12: weed player did take a lean sheeping on g is
Speaker 12: a bean bag.
Speaker 2: I've been going gene because a cool know she was
Speaker 2: over pending up.
Speaker 12: She'll been talking your Japan in the bends of the
Speaker 12: very T shirt sleeve, udding up top turn of vert riding.
Speaker 2: Then you gotta being down and saying the Pope. We
Speaker 2: spend a die cop and John Knack and I helped
Speaker 2: boom Nat of guys, we are not a devil.
Speaker 1: High Strange is an eighth part series released weekly for
Speaker 1: free every Thursday. But if you'd like to beinge the
Speaker 1: whole series right now, you can subscribe to foot plus
Speaker 1: on Apple Podcasts to get all the episodes right now.
Speaker 1: Follow the show on TikTok and Instagram. At high Strange
Speaker 1: and you can follow me on Twitter and Instagram at
Speaker 1: Payne Lindsay. If you have your own UFO story, email
Speaker 1: us at tips at highstrange dot com. High Strange is
Speaker 1: a production by Tenderfoot TV in association with Cadence thirteen, created,
Speaker 1: hosted and edited by myself, Payne Lindsey Executive producers or
Speaker 1: myself and Donald Albright. Editing by Mike Rooney, Cooper Skinner
Speaker 1: and myself. Original score by Makeup and Vanity Set, Sound design,
Speaker 1: mixing and mastering by Cooper Skinner. Additional production by Mike Rooney,
Speaker 1: Dylan Harrington, Eric Quintana, Sean Nurney, Meredith Stedman, and Sidney Evans.
Speaker 2: Our cover art is by Polygon.
Speaker 1: This episode features the song space Cadet by metro Booman
Speaker 1: featuring Gunna, written by Wesley Tyre Glass, Sergio Kitchens, Leland Tyler,
Speaker 1: Wayne Alan Ritter and Jock Queeze Webster, performed by metro
Speaker 1: Booman featuring Gunna courtesy of Republic Records under license from
Speaker 1: Universal Music Enterprises for metro Booman in three hundred Entertainment
Speaker 1: for Gunna Special Thanks to Orrin Rosenbaum in the Whole
Speaker 1: Team at UTA the Nord Group, Station sixteen, Beck Media
Speaker 1: and Marketing, as well as Chris Corcoran and the team
Speaker 1: at Cadence thirteen. Check out the show's website at Highstrange
Speaker 1: dot com and if you're enjoying the show, please help
Speaker 1: us out by rating and reviewing the podcast and share
Speaker 1: it with your friends. Thanks for listening. High Strange is
Speaker 1: an eight part series. If you'd like to bene the
Speaker 1: whole series right now add free, you can subscribe to
Speaker 1: Tenderfoot Plus on Apple Podcasts