WEBVTT - Roundtable Discussion #2 0:00:00.240 --> 0:00:02.600 High Strange is an eight part series. If you'd like 0:00:02.640 --> 0:00:05.760 to bene the whole series right now ad free, you 0:00:05.880 --> 0:00:11.040 can subscribe to Tenderfoot Plus on Apple podcasts. Hey it's 0:00:11.080 --> 0:00:14.520 pain here. We have some really exciting updates for you. 0:00:14.840 --> 0:00:18.880 The UFO story has not gotten any smaller or quieter. 0:00:19.520 --> 0:00:21.040 It's gotten a little bit louder. 0:00:21.040 --> 0:00:21.400 We think. 0:00:21.560 --> 0:00:24.160 We have some special guests, some new stories you probably 0:00:24.160 --> 0:00:27.840 haven't heard yet, and a very special announcement about the 0:00:27.880 --> 0:00:31.640 future of High Strange. But what you can do right now, 0:00:31.920 --> 0:00:35.320 and I highly suggest you do, is go listen to 0:00:35.920 --> 0:00:38.720 a new interview that we did with a man named 0:00:38.800 --> 0:00:43.720 Jeremy Corbel. It's available on my weekly podcast, Talking to Death. 0:00:44.560 --> 0:00:45.640 It's out right now. 0:00:45.920 --> 0:00:48.400 Just go search Talking to Death on your podcast app 0:00:48.640 --> 0:00:51.440 and look for the most recent episode with Jeremy Corbel. 0:00:51.800 --> 0:00:55.000 And I promise you it's worth it. Thanks y'all. 0:01:02.720 --> 0:01:02.760 Go. 0:01:03.760 --> 0:01:07.520 It's a good song. And he's out of jail now, 0:01:08.520 --> 0:01:09.480 is he he is? 0:01:09.680 --> 0:01:11.880 Yeah? 0:01:11.920 --> 0:01:12.040 Oh? 0:01:12.160 --> 0:01:14.960 Gun it yeah yeah. Well it's like when did Metro. 0:01:14.760 --> 0:01:19.520 Go to jail? Okay, we're back, we're back. We're back. 0:01:20.200 --> 0:01:21.959 It's been a minute. Yeah, we're out. 0:01:21.800 --> 0:01:23.280 Of jail, Out of jail, straight to space. 0:01:23.319 --> 0:01:24.680 That's yeah, that's why it took so long. We've been 0:01:24.680 --> 0:01:27.200 in jail this whole time. No, we've been in podcast 0:01:27.280 --> 0:01:30.320 jail making other podcasts. But trust me when I say 0:01:30.920 --> 0:01:33.800 we have never stopped thinking about High Strange because it's 0:01:33.880 --> 0:01:35.800 one of the most fun shows I think I've ever 0:01:35.840 --> 0:01:40.280 worked on. Now we're back here because one, we've missed you. 0:01:41.160 --> 0:01:46.800 Two we've really never stopped talking, thinking about, or researching 0:01:47.040 --> 0:01:53.200 or researching investigating UFO phenomenon since we since episode eight 0:01:53.240 --> 0:01:56.800 of High Strange. And we've done a couple of different 0:01:56.800 --> 0:02:00.480 things since then, and we wanted to give you another 0:02:00.600 --> 0:02:04.600 roundtable episode because it's been so long. A lot's happened 0:02:04.960 --> 0:02:08.280 since we left off. I feel like a year ago, 0:02:08.400 --> 0:02:11.200 which is about a year ago now, almost when the 0:02:11.240 --> 0:02:14.920 podcast first came out. I've let the conversations evolved even 0:02:15.400 --> 0:02:20.120 more further past that in a good way, in terms 0:02:20.120 --> 0:02:22.760 of people just being open to the concept of, hey, 0:02:22.760 --> 0:02:26.040 maybe there's stuff going on that we don't fully understand 0:02:26.120 --> 0:02:29.560 and it's okay to look into it. 0:02:30.080 --> 0:02:33.639 I mean, I can honestly say that since High Strange ended, 0:02:33.800 --> 0:02:38.120 I have looked, I have researched more than I did 0:02:38.360 --> 0:02:41.960 during the production of High Strange into UFOs, into Aliens, 0:02:42.040 --> 0:02:46.560 into Nhi. I am obsessed beyond what I was before. 0:02:46.720 --> 0:02:47.880 Dylan was already obsessed. 0:02:47.919 --> 0:02:50.320 I think I'll always be obsessed. Yeah, if any of 0:02:50.400 --> 0:02:52.639 you could see our text chain for the last eight 0:02:52.680 --> 0:02:55.600 months since we last made this, nothing you would ever 0:02:55.680 --> 0:02:56.160 listen to us. 0:02:56.280 --> 0:03:00.160 Nothing gets right. It's just all conspiracy, all credit this show. 0:03:00.120 --> 0:03:03.480 No no, but nothing gets through the cracks. Nothing slips 0:03:03.480 --> 0:03:04.000 through the cracks. 0:03:04.040 --> 0:03:04.639 We see it all. 0:03:04.680 --> 0:03:08.280 We've seen everything. You think that you need to email. 0:03:07.960 --> 0:03:10.600 To us, we have seen it, right, Or if you're 0:03:10.639 --> 0:03:12.240 just a casual listener, you're like, what the hell are 0:03:12.240 --> 0:03:12.720 you talking about? 0:03:12.760 --> 0:03:14.160 Man, tell me something right? 0:03:14.240 --> 0:03:17.320 Okay, that's fair too, because I'm also I'm kind of 0:03:17.320 --> 0:03:20.040 more in that camp sometimes as well, where you guys 0:03:20.080 --> 0:03:23.520 send me this stuff. And there's been some big news stories. 0:03:23.760 --> 0:03:27.080 I think the biggest thing that's happened since the release 0:03:27.120 --> 0:03:31.440 of High Strange was this kind of legendary congressional hearing 0:03:32.200 --> 0:03:36.160 and last minute Dylan and I decided to take a 0:03:36.160 --> 0:03:40.680 flight to DC and go to this thing. Wanted to 0:03:40.760 --> 0:03:44.080 set up what was actually going on that day, just 0:03:44.360 --> 0:03:48.040 like like for those who didn't know this happened, there 0:03:48.120 --> 0:03:54.480 was a big congressional hearing about UFOs and we went 0:03:54.640 --> 0:03:56.600 to go see these people speak in front of congress. 0:03:57.920 --> 0:03:58.160 Yeah. 0:03:58.280 --> 0:04:01.080 So, you know, I got the call from pay late one. 0:04:01.160 --> 0:04:03.240 It was probably eight pm one night. 0:04:03.440 --> 0:04:05.000 We had like an hour to get there. 0:04:05.120 --> 0:04:06.800 Yeah, and he just he calls me. He's like, we're 0:04:06.800 --> 0:04:09.640 gonna go. I don't own a suit because I'm a child, 0:04:10.200 --> 0:04:12.160 but apparently you need a You need a suit, you 0:04:12.200 --> 0:04:14.560 are a child. Yeah, you should, I should own a suit. 0:04:14.560 --> 0:04:15.600 It's thirty two. 0:04:15.720 --> 0:04:17.599 Well I have, like I have won suit, you know, 0:04:17.920 --> 0:04:18.839 and you looked good at it. 0:04:18.920 --> 0:04:19.320 Let me see. 0:04:19.320 --> 0:04:21.880 Oh well thank you looked real small. Oh gosh, I 0:04:21.960 --> 0:04:23.120 can't I can't repeat it. 0:04:23.440 --> 0:04:25.760 Yeah, but we, uh we get there, you and your suit, 0:04:25.839 --> 0:04:28.200 me and just my everyday close. Luckily they still let 0:04:28.240 --> 0:04:31.080 me in, which is nice. But we get there, you know, 0:04:31.160 --> 0:04:34.000 not really knowing what to expect, and we get sent 0:04:34.040 --> 0:04:37.520 into this this room next to the Congressional hall where 0:04:37.520 --> 0:04:40.080 the meeting's actually taking place, and it's just full of 0:04:40.240 --> 0:04:44.159 other call them nerds. I was gonna say alien enthusiasts, 0:04:44.200 --> 0:04:45.960 but let's call them for what they are. They're nerds. 0:04:46.040 --> 0:04:46.480 Nerds. 0:04:46.600 --> 0:04:48.000 We were there too. We're like Oh, make god, we 0:04:48.120 --> 0:04:49.000 dressed up nice for this. 0:04:49.120 --> 0:04:49.240 Oh. 0:04:49.279 --> 0:04:50.880 I wanted to go so bad. I was so jealous. 0:04:51.000 --> 0:04:52.680 Yeah, it was an experience. It was a once in 0:04:52.680 --> 0:04:53.720 a lifetime experience. 0:04:54.240 --> 0:04:57.160 There were so many people at this random hearing on 0:04:57.200 --> 0:05:00.640 like a Tuesday or something, that there was a billover 0:05:01.160 --> 0:05:05.839 room for press because the actual congressional room was too 0:05:05.880 --> 0:05:09.320 full for anyone else to attend in there, and so 0:05:09.400 --> 0:05:11.640 we were in. At first, I was kind of bummed 0:05:11.640 --> 0:05:12.880 to go, oh, man, I wanted to be in the 0:05:12.920 --> 0:05:17.239 actual room where they're doing this. But it actually turned 0:05:17.240 --> 0:05:20.400 out to be a cooler experience, I think because we 0:05:20.440 --> 0:05:23.720 had a live feed from the room right next door, 0:05:23.960 --> 0:05:26.400 so we could hear it and see it. But there 0:05:26.480 --> 0:05:30.000 was way less Uh, there was there was. 0:05:30.120 --> 0:05:33.360 Less rules in this room. I'd like to say it 0:05:33.400 --> 0:05:35.799 was it was the back of the class. 0:05:35.880 --> 0:05:38.279 It was the back of the class. People were clapping. 0:05:38.800 --> 0:05:42.359 It was this surreal thing, like people talk about the 0:05:42.440 --> 0:05:46.600 idea of disclosure right where, you know, eventually one day 0:05:46.640 --> 0:05:49.800 the government comes out and says, hey, here's what's really 0:05:49.839 --> 0:05:52.320 going on, and there's all these species of aliens or 0:05:52.320 --> 0:05:53.560 we had these craft. 0:05:53.720 --> 0:05:55.599 You know, I don't think it's ever going to happen 0:05:56.279 --> 0:05:57.800 that way. It'd be cool if it did. 0:05:58.320 --> 0:06:02.599 But it felt like a closure, a moment where you 0:06:02.680 --> 0:06:05.159 were maybe I was just too excited, but it felt 0:06:05.200 --> 0:06:06.800 like in the moment I was witnessing something that was 0:06:07.240 --> 0:06:09.000 like legendary. 0:06:09.160 --> 0:06:11.680 I think I think it's historical. I think I think 0:06:11.800 --> 0:06:13.360 Rush will be in textbooks. 0:06:13.440 --> 0:06:15.479 Okay, let's talk about Grush, because if you don't know 0:06:15.520 --> 0:06:19.000 who David Grush, who's really the main person who was 0:06:19.040 --> 0:06:23.800 testifying before Congress. Let's talk about who David Grush is 0:06:24.040 --> 0:06:25.359 and what he was even saying. 0:06:25.720 --> 0:06:28.039 What was your favorite thing he said in the Congression? 0:06:28.080 --> 0:06:33.240 Well, okay, I remember you showing me that this guy 0:06:33.360 --> 0:06:36.560 was about to come out. There was a whistleblower from 0:06:36.600 --> 0:06:40.160 the government who was coming out with some big bombshell information. 0:06:40.400 --> 0:06:44.040 And then they dropped this interview with Ross Colehart, this 0:06:44.160 --> 0:06:47.680 journalist from News Nation, and we watched it at the 0:06:47.720 --> 0:06:49.920 same time. Think we were in Denver or something. Yeah, 0:06:49.960 --> 0:06:53.560 and you got me hyped on it, and he was 0:06:53.600 --> 0:06:58.760 saying stuff that was absolutely bunkers crazy sounding, because you've 0:06:58.760 --> 0:07:02.960 never heard really many people of that level of the 0:07:03.040 --> 0:07:04.480 darn say something like that. 0:07:04.480 --> 0:07:09.159 That's the thing. It's you've You've heard crazier claims than this. 0:07:09.440 --> 0:07:13.720 Everyone has. Everyone's heard some crazy shit from some UFO 0:07:13.840 --> 0:07:16.480 guy who's like, yo, the aliens, I'm talking to him 0:07:16.480 --> 0:07:19.360 in my head from my bedroom. I can call UFOs 0:07:19.400 --> 0:07:22.160 to my house, my backyard. We've all heard that. Ye, 0:07:22.320 --> 0:07:24.800 if you've looked into this at all, you've heard the 0:07:24.880 --> 0:07:28.640 crazy stuff. But this guy. The crazy thing about this 0:07:28.800 --> 0:07:31.720 is he was saying some of the crazy shit, but 0:07:32.400 --> 0:07:37.280 his credentials check out. He's like legit, top clearance, like 0:07:37.800 --> 0:07:43.120 big deal counterintelligence guy came from like working on big missions. 0:07:43.200 --> 0:07:45.600 Not a dumb dumb, Not a dumb dumb. This guy 0:07:45.720 --> 0:07:49.120 isn't some guy. I'm probably saying this wrong, but I 0:07:49.160 --> 0:07:52.040 think he was about to be promoted to like lieutenant colonel, 0:07:52.080 --> 0:07:55.240 which is like super high up in the military. Like, 0:07:55.280 --> 0:07:58.200 this guy is not a joke. He's not some crazy person. 0:07:58.520 --> 0:08:01.480 But Grusha's like almost bulletproof. 0:08:01.560 --> 0:08:03.720 Like this guy's like legit, like a good guy for it. 0:08:03.800 --> 0:08:09.280 He was briefing Obama on counterintelligence measures like that. They 0:08:09.280 --> 0:08:12.360 don't get that responsibility doesn't go to it. 0:08:12.200 --> 0:08:13.360 Doesn't adding on their face. 0:08:13.360 --> 0:08:16.880 If this guy is completely has completely lost his mind, 0:08:16.920 --> 0:08:21.320 but somehow still sounds completely same when he's talking like, 0:08:21.640 --> 0:08:25.720 let's just run down bullet point some of the biggest 0:08:25.800 --> 0:08:29.360 claims that David Grush made to Congress. 0:08:29.480 --> 0:08:35.360 Can I start with my favorite one? Yes, Mussolini and 0:08:35.400 --> 0:08:39.079 this is no one's gonna believe this casual Listen, great start, 0:08:39.120 --> 0:08:46.880 I'm sorry. Mussolini, his Italia recovered a UFO in nineteen 0:08:46.960 --> 0:08:51.160 thirty three, and he's like saying this, like this is fact, 0:08:51.280 --> 0:08:55.760 Like the US government or whatever, this this special access program, whatever, 0:08:55.800 --> 0:08:59.760 this black project is, knows about this recovery in nineteen 0:08:59.760 --> 0:09:02.000 thirty three under Mussolini. 0:09:02.080 --> 0:09:04.560 And this is part of some bigger idea here where 0:09:04.600 --> 0:09:10.040 he's basically saying that for decades now, the government has 0:09:10.080 --> 0:09:16.040 had this secret program, a crash retreat, like a crash 0:09:16.200 --> 0:09:23.600 a UFO crash retrieval program where UAP have allegedly crashed 0:09:23.640 --> 0:09:27.719 on Earth and the US has scooped them up and 0:09:28.600 --> 0:09:30.959 tinkered with them and tried to figure out how they 0:09:31.000 --> 0:09:33.679 work and kept all this stuff a secret. 0:09:33.840 --> 0:09:34.960 It even goes beyond that. 0:09:35.840 --> 0:09:40.520 And this predates Roswell, which is the craziest. 0:09:40.040 --> 0:09:42.240 Rosseld is forty seven. You know, the. 0:09:42.200 --> 0:09:44.920 Biggest theory that I've always followed and always believed in 0:09:45.080 --> 0:09:47.520 is that we set off nuclear bomb tests in like 0:09:47.960 --> 0:09:50.199 nineteen forty six and forty seven. I don't I don't 0:09:50.200 --> 0:09:52.040 remember the exact date. You can look it up. It's 0:09:52.040 --> 0:09:55.880 on Wikipedia. It's Trinity test. We set off the bomb, 0:09:55.920 --> 0:09:59.400 the nuclear bomb test, and they came right. No, this 0:09:59.480 --> 0:10:03.040 predates this, This is nineteen thirty three. This is before so 0:10:03.240 --> 0:10:06.280 all that, like they're attracted to nuclear bombs, which they 0:10:06.320 --> 0:10:11.000 probably are, and nuclear energy and whatever, but this predates this. 0:10:11.000 --> 0:10:14.080 This is this is something before that. And what I 0:10:14.120 --> 0:10:17.439 think he's implied is that it's even older than that 0:10:17.640 --> 0:10:21.000 m hm, which I think I've I've thought for a 0:10:21.040 --> 0:10:21.959 while now, but. 0:10:22.520 --> 0:10:26.120 Either, I mean, they're huge claims that go for generations. 0:10:26.240 --> 0:10:32.080 Like basically, he's alleging that there is this black program, 0:10:32.480 --> 0:10:38.679 this hidden secret program that's that Congress and even the 0:10:38.679 --> 0:10:42.120 President most of the time, if not damn near all 0:10:42.160 --> 0:10:47.320 the time, is not privy to where they are keeping 0:10:47.320 --> 0:10:52.440 the secret that we know extratrustural life not only exists, 0:10:52.480 --> 0:10:56.240 but has been here and maybe even is here, and 0:10:56.280 --> 0:11:02.880 we have crafts. And the way he phrases it is biologics. 0:11:02.440 --> 0:11:04.960 Non human intelligence. 0:11:04.720 --> 0:11:08.520 Biologics of non human intelligence, meaning. 0:11:08.760 --> 0:11:13.360 Cadavers insanity and you can look past that though, like that, 0:11:13.440 --> 0:11:15.160 you can sure dismiss that. 0:11:15.080 --> 0:11:17.040 Go ahead in all the services. This sounds you know, 0:11:17.120 --> 0:11:18.319 it sounds nuts, right. 0:11:18.360 --> 0:11:22.120 But what did he do? He got in a congressional hearing. 0:11:22.320 --> 0:11:25.560 He got both sides of the spectrum, both sides of 0:11:25.559 --> 0:11:28.920 the parties, both parties to agree. You got AOC, You 0:11:29.000 --> 0:11:33.920 got what's his name, Matt Gates. Matt Gates and AOC 0:11:34.520 --> 0:11:34.960 both like. 0:11:37.200 --> 0:11:37.360 Yeah. 0:11:37.400 --> 0:11:41.400 And this goes into Brian Bender's whole first article that 0:11:41.440 --> 0:11:44.240 he wrote about this in twenty seventeen where he's like, Okay, 0:11:44.240 --> 0:11:47.680 where is all this money going? Right, that's the real issue. 0:11:48.000 --> 0:11:52.640 This is taxpayer money going somewhere else that it's hidden. 0:11:53.840 --> 0:11:57.079 AOC is like, whoa, Okay, I don't care about the 0:11:57.080 --> 0:12:00.840 alien stuff, but like what I gathered from her Congressional 0:12:01.440 --> 0:12:06.520 Oversight Committee testimony and questioning is where is this money 0:12:06.559 --> 0:12:08.720 that the taxpayers are putting in? Why is this going 0:12:08.720 --> 0:12:13.200 to some secret private entity, no matter what it is, right, yeah, yeah, 0:12:13.240 --> 0:12:15.360 it doesn't matter, It doesn't matter what it's for. This 0:12:15.400 --> 0:12:16.040 is a problem. 0:12:16.280 --> 0:12:16.520 Yeah. 0:12:16.559 --> 0:12:18.199 And then you got Matt Gates kind of saying the 0:12:18.240 --> 0:12:20.880 same thing. Yeah, got both sides of the writer or 0:12:20.880 --> 0:12:24.400 blue kind of coming together on this being like, yo, 0:12:24.480 --> 0:12:28.000 we need to dig further into this sentence freaking out 0:12:28.040 --> 0:12:30.840 about this a little bit, at least some of them. 0:12:30.960 --> 0:12:34.280 If you remember back to Highest Trained season one, we 0:12:34.400 --> 0:12:39.400 featured two journalists pretty prominently, Leslie Kane and Brian Bender, 0:12:39.400 --> 0:12:41.640 and they would chime in kind of throughout the whole 0:12:41.679 --> 0:12:48.080 series with great insight on different details and aspects and 0:12:48.559 --> 0:12:52.040 just a little historical factoids about the UFO story in 0:12:52.080 --> 0:12:55.640 American culture. They were also two of the journalists who 0:12:55.640 --> 0:12:58.920 broke a really big story years ago that kind of 0:12:58.920 --> 0:13:01.960 blew the lid off of this conversation in the mainstream 0:13:03.280 --> 0:13:09.160 with the New York Times and Political And we met 0:13:09.200 --> 0:13:14.679 with Leslie Kane a couple of times, and she always 0:13:14.720 --> 0:13:17.800 sort of kind of hinted at there being some other 0:13:18.000 --> 0:13:21.560 big thing coming, which is what every UFO person does. 0:13:21.679 --> 0:13:23.920 Ever, I feel like, but I believed it. 0:13:24.000 --> 0:13:25.880 This time you talked to the right person. I think 0:13:25.920 --> 0:13:26.480 you do know more. 0:13:26.559 --> 0:13:30.000 And sure enough, though she's the first person to technically 0:13:30.040 --> 0:13:32.800 break this David Grush story, the guy who came out 0:13:32.840 --> 0:13:36.679 with these big claims about this secret government project going on. 0:13:37.480 --> 0:13:43.640 And yeah, and so we actually talked to Brian Bender 0:13:43.679 --> 0:13:48.920 again recently and gracious for his time, just to kind 0:13:48.960 --> 0:13:52.320 of catch up on what's all happened since then. And 0:13:52.480 --> 0:13:56.439 I always enjoyed the way that he pragmatically broke things down, 0:13:56.960 --> 0:14:00.480 and it wasn't always as it's He didn't always make 0:14:00.520 --> 0:14:05.320 it about aliens, right, And maybe it is aliens and 0:14:05.360 --> 0:14:07.679 it's the way that we think that they are. Maybe 0:14:07.679 --> 0:14:10.680 it is, and it's all these other dozens of things 0:14:10.760 --> 0:14:13.480 or thousands of things too. Maybe it's none of that, 0:14:13.520 --> 0:14:16.600 and we don't understand it either way. If there's something 0:14:16.600 --> 0:14:20.920 that we don't understand, I think that it's worth looking into. 0:14:21.280 --> 0:14:24.400 And he always had that sort of pragmatic, practical approach 0:14:24.480 --> 0:14:28.040 to it, which I really found refreshing. And so catching 0:14:28.080 --> 0:14:29.920 up with him was fun. And we're gonna play some 0:14:29.920 --> 0:14:31.760 clips of that for you guys in a little bit. 0:14:32.400 --> 0:14:36.400 Yeah. No, I really appreciate Brian, and I think I 0:14:36.480 --> 0:14:41.000 really love that he's mostly skeptical, even though he's he's 0:14:41.080 --> 0:14:43.800 heard some stuff. He's heard some stuff that I haven't 0:14:43.800 --> 0:14:44.480 even heard. 0:14:44.840 --> 0:14:46.600 Well, hearing is not seeing. 0:14:47.840 --> 0:14:51.240 It's what you want David Grush to come forward with, 0:14:51.960 --> 0:14:59.360 is physical video evidence, evidence, physical something you can see analyze. Now, 0:15:00.120 --> 0:15:04.120 you couldn't really ask for a more credible guy, right, 0:15:04.280 --> 0:15:08.120 a more credible person. No, but again, it's just you're 0:15:08.160 --> 0:15:12.760 going on somebody's word, and so that's a that's a 0:15:12.760 --> 0:15:17.120 big leap. And with claims this big, this new to 0:15:17.400 --> 0:15:21.360 us as a society, I think that it's only fair 0:15:21.360 --> 0:15:24.440 to be met with a little bit of scrutiny. But 0:15:25.280 --> 0:15:28.600 what if he's telling the damn truth? Oh if he could. 0:15:28.640 --> 0:15:30.720 I don't know if he is or not, but I 0:15:30.720 --> 0:15:36.600 will say this, he's pretty fucking believable. I mean he's 0:15:36.640 --> 0:15:37.880 not he's good at it. 0:15:38.760 --> 0:15:41.920 I guarantee you. If he could walk out on stage 0:15:42.360 --> 0:15:46.040 in on the News Nation interview and be like, hey, Ross, 0:15:46.360 --> 0:15:50.240 I brought a sample of a craft and it's metal 0:15:50.320 --> 0:15:53.200 that we've never seen before, he would do that. He 0:15:53.280 --> 0:15:55.640 just can't. You know, he's gotta he's gotta go through 0:15:55.680 --> 0:15:58.800 the Dopster process. He's got to get things cleared. Anything 0:15:58.840 --> 0:16:02.160 he talks about in public or on media, it has 0:16:02.200 --> 0:16:03.080 to be approved first. 0:16:03.360 --> 0:16:04.960 So what this process you're talking about? 0:16:05.000 --> 0:16:07.800 This is where he could get in trouble for divulging 0:16:08.360 --> 0:16:11.000 I guess top secretmation. Yeah, how does that work? 0:16:11.120 --> 0:16:14.600 Exactly? From how you know it, Like, so, what was 0:16:14.600 --> 0:16:15.160 he afraid of? 0:16:15.640 --> 0:16:19.840 So it's the it's weird, but it's I've only learned 0:16:19.880 --> 0:16:23.560 this semi recently since High Strange ended, episode eight ended. 0:16:23.880 --> 0:16:28.520 I've learned this afterwards because honestly, after our season ended, 0:16:28.720 --> 0:16:31.720 so much stuff happened and I really had to dive 0:16:31.840 --> 0:16:34.440 deep into this topic and be like, okay, wait, this 0:16:34.520 --> 0:16:37.800 is actually moving forward in a weird way I didn't expect, 0:16:38.600 --> 0:16:42.160 and almost in a synchronistic way. So with the dopster thing, 0:16:42.360 --> 0:16:44.640 basically he has to get approval from his higher ups. 0:16:44.640 --> 0:16:48.680 He's no longer working with them, he's no longer part 0:16:48.720 --> 0:16:51.480 of the military in any way I don't believe. But 0:16:51.880 --> 0:16:55.800 he has to go to the ic IG, which is 0:16:55.840 --> 0:16:59.320 the yeah yeah, yeah yeah, So it's with his higher up. 0:16:59.600 --> 0:17:04.320 It's in basically, just think an intelligence leader, right, the 0:17:04.400 --> 0:17:06.440 leader of the intelligence. 0:17:05.840 --> 0:17:07.720 To get permission, yeah or so. 0:17:08.200 --> 0:17:12.560 And the DOPSER stands for Defense Office of pre Publication 0:17:12.760 --> 0:17:16.399 and Security Review because he has the highest clearance level. 0:17:17.600 --> 0:17:19.400 And that's the thing. There's all these myths about how 0:17:19.400 --> 0:17:21.879 many clearance levels there are. So he has the highest 0:17:21.920 --> 0:17:25.240 level of security clearance. So he's trusted with the biggest 0:17:25.280 --> 0:17:29.200 secrets in our nation, right in amongst our nation. It 0:17:29.320 --> 0:17:33.880 has to be cleared because he was a former employee, right. 0:17:34.080 --> 0:17:36.320 These guys are trying to not go to jail basically, Yeah. 0:17:36.119 --> 0:17:39.600 Because if they release some classified information to the general 0:17:39.640 --> 0:17:42.000 public that is like treason. 0:17:42.359 --> 0:17:44.719 Yeah, whether the UFO part of it is true or not. 0:17:45.200 --> 0:17:48.280 If you divulge that, then you're going to jail. 0:17:48.320 --> 0:17:51.240 If you accidentally give away a missile system that we 0:17:51.280 --> 0:17:55.760 don't want our enemies to go about, some censor development 0:17:55.920 --> 0:17:59.520 that we've figured out that China or Russia, Iran doesn't 0:17:59.560 --> 0:18:04.160 know or doesn't have access to you. It's for national security. 0:18:04.200 --> 0:18:07.400 I get it. It's classified information. You have to get 0:18:07.480 --> 0:18:10.439 stuff approved before you can talk about it. But he 0:18:10.720 --> 0:18:14.640 before his congressional hearing, he did adopts her, got it cleared. 0:18:15.240 --> 0:18:17.760 Everything he talked about to news Nation in front of 0:18:17.760 --> 0:18:19.719 congressional hearing, Yeah, was cleared. 0:18:19.720 --> 0:18:21.480 And he's being very careful, but he could tell that 0:18:21.560 --> 0:18:25.760 he was, you know, he had just prepped himself on 0:18:25.880 --> 0:18:30.040 the scope of what he knew he could legally talk about. 0:18:30.880 --> 0:18:32.560 Or that's how it came across. At least. 0:18:32.800 --> 0:18:35.440 Yeah, they're saying it. It doesn't go against National Defense. 0:18:35.640 --> 0:18:37.840 To say anything that's in this brief, it doesn't necessarily 0:18:37.840 --> 0:18:40.240 mean it's true, but you're just allowed to talk about it. 0:18:40.320 --> 0:18:41.560 Doesn't interfere with what we're doing. 0:18:41.640 --> 0:18:41.840 Right. 0:18:44.119 --> 0:18:46.760 I got a chance to talk to Brian Bender about 0:18:47.040 --> 0:18:50.800 David Grush and this congressional hearing that Dylan and I 0:18:50.920 --> 0:18:55.359 got to attend in person, and because he's smarter than 0:18:55.400 --> 0:18:59.560 I am, he more eloquently breaks down some of the 0:18:59.600 --> 0:19:04.000 big key points of what David Grush was actually claiming. 0:19:04.560 --> 0:19:06.520 And when you. 0:19:06.480 --> 0:19:09.280 Analyze it, it's it's some pretty big stuff. 0:19:09.960 --> 0:19:10.960 Let's kick to it real quick. 0:19:12.680 --> 0:19:12.960 Brian. 0:19:12.960 --> 0:19:13.560 How you been, man? 0:19:14.720 --> 0:19:15.720 I'm good, I'm good. 0:19:16.680 --> 0:19:20.720 What's the latest in your world of journalism? 0:19:21.080 --> 0:19:21.199 So? 0:19:21.400 --> 0:19:23.679 Well, you know, I sometimes joke that I'm now a 0:19:23.760 --> 0:19:30.440 recovering journalist. So about a year ago I left journalism 0:19:30.480 --> 0:19:33.560 as a sort of daily full time reporter and editor. 0:19:33.640 --> 0:19:37.760 After I hate to admit it, but twenty for almost 0:19:37.800 --> 0:19:41.840 twenty five years, and I'm still writing. I'm still reporting, 0:19:41.920 --> 0:19:45.680 but I have a different day job where I'm now 0:19:45.760 --> 0:19:50.919 basically a Beltway bandit as they call it. So I'm 0:19:50.960 --> 0:19:58.000 a communications consultant, mostly helping tech startups and research universities 0:19:58.119 --> 0:20:01.920 navigate the federal government, so helping them tell their stories. 0:20:02.880 --> 0:20:06.639 And but I'm still writing, I'm still reporting. I'm a 0:20:06.680 --> 0:20:10.159 contributor to Political magazine, so working on a couple of 0:20:10.600 --> 0:20:15.320 sort of bigger projects for them. Uh so, you know, 0:20:15.400 --> 0:20:18.480 keeping busy, but a little bit of a different audience, 0:20:19.760 --> 0:20:24.199 but a lot of the same topics, national security, global affairs, politics, 0:20:24.280 --> 0:20:28.439 once in a while, UFOs, right, if I strip it, 0:20:28.480 --> 0:20:30.640 if I trip and fall into the rabbit hole. 0:20:31.680 --> 0:20:34.840 I just realized before we hopped on this call that 0:20:35.800 --> 0:20:39.600 the first time we talked was in Roswell, New Mexico 0:20:40.080 --> 0:20:41.800 at that event. 0:20:42.880 --> 0:20:43.879 And I never really. 0:20:43.640 --> 0:20:45.720 Asked you, I don't think, or at least it wasn't 0:20:45.720 --> 0:20:49.119 in the podcast, what your thoughts on that was? I mean, 0:20:49.119 --> 0:20:51.280 because it was for me, it was like, this is 0:20:51.480 --> 0:20:55.119 totally bizarre. Also, Roswell, New Mexico doesn't does not have 0:20:55.240 --> 0:21:00.000 enough restaurants. But but Applebee's was really. 0:21:01.440 --> 0:21:05.080 And that giant alien outside the Duncan Donuts to make 0:21:05.080 --> 0:21:06.800 it clear, it was a statue of an alien, not 0:21:06.840 --> 0:21:11.200 a real alien. You know, it's interesting, you know when 0:21:11.240 --> 0:21:16.639 I kind of stumbled into the UFO story in twenty seventeen, 0:21:16.760 --> 0:21:21.240 when I was part of that group of reporters initially 0:21:22.040 --> 0:21:26.679 got some inside information about some Pentagon research programs that 0:21:26.720 --> 0:21:29.639 had been going on that had been kind of secretly 0:21:29.680 --> 0:21:34.360 funded by Congress in recent years. 0:21:34.720 --> 0:21:38.399 I kind of pretty quickly made this this determination that 0:21:39.920 --> 0:21:44.080 I'm going to follow the money. So if the government's 0:21:44.080 --> 0:21:46.280 spending money on UFO research. 0:21:46.320 --> 0:21:49.200 Who's it going to, what's it for? Who are the 0:21:49.240 --> 0:21:52.760 key decision makers in Washington that are behind it. Because 0:21:52.800 --> 0:21:54.879 I was a political reporter, I mean, to me, that 0:21:55.080 --> 0:21:56.120 was the story for us. 0:21:56.200 --> 0:21:58.720 It's like, Okay, this is this is the political story. 0:21:58.760 --> 0:21:59.879 It's a policy story. 0:22:01.440 --> 0:22:04.360 People are really concerned about things that are out there, 0:22:04.359 --> 0:22:06.760 and I identified some of which seemed to defy what 0:22:06.800 --> 0:22:12.320