1 00:00:04,760 --> 00:00:08,600 Speaker 1: On this episode of Newts World. Benjamin Franklin was the 2 00:00:08,640 --> 00:00:11,720 Speaker 1: oldest of the Founding fathers. He was a generation ahead 3 00:00:11,760 --> 00:00:16,400 Speaker 1: of George Washington, John Adams, and Thomas Jefferson, and yet 4 00:00:16,560 --> 00:00:18,840 Speaker 1: he was the most forward looking of the group and 5 00:00:18,880 --> 00:00:22,400 Speaker 1: the most modern of the founders. In his new book, 6 00:00:22,880 --> 00:00:27,520 Speaker 1: The Greatest American Benjamin Franklin, the World's Most Versatile Genius, 7 00:00:28,000 --> 00:00:30,520 Speaker 1: author of Mark S. Gosson, shows just how much of 8 00:00:30,520 --> 00:00:35,160 Speaker 1: an impact Benjamin Franklin had on American politics and daily life. 9 00:00:35,880 --> 00:00:38,680 Speaker 1: Here to talk about his new book, I'm really pleased 10 00:00:38,720 --> 00:00:42,080 Speaker 1: to welcome my guests, doctor Mark Scauson. He's the editor 11 00:00:42,120 --> 00:00:47,240 Speaker 1: of Forecasts and Strategies. He is a nationally known investment expert, economists, 12 00:00:47,520 --> 00:00:51,159 Speaker 1: university professor, and author of more than twenty five books. 13 00:00:51,680 --> 00:00:54,800 Speaker 1: He's known as america as Economist and has been identified 14 00:00:55,000 --> 00:00:58,600 Speaker 1: as one of the twenty most influential living economists. And 15 00:00:58,680 --> 00:01:01,880 Speaker 1: as it turns out, he is a direct descendant of 16 00:01:02,000 --> 00:01:18,560 Speaker 1: Benjamin Franklin. Mark, welcome, and thank you for joining me 17 00:01:18,560 --> 00:01:19,199 Speaker 1: on this world. 18 00:01:19,400 --> 00:01:22,440 Speaker 2: Well, it's my pleasure, and as Ben Franklin say, it 19 00:01:22,480 --> 00:01:26,160 Speaker 2: pleases my vanity to speak with the former Speaker of 20 00:01:26,200 --> 00:01:26,639 Speaker 2: the House. 21 00:01:27,360 --> 00:01:29,559 Speaker 1: I don't know about Vanity, but we've been good friends 22 00:01:29,560 --> 00:01:32,320 Speaker 1: for many, many years, and you've had an important impact 23 00:01:32,319 --> 00:01:36,959 Speaker 1: on American politics and American economics. But I'm curious. You know, 24 00:01:37,000 --> 00:01:40,560 Speaker 1: after so many years of writing books on economics and 25 00:01:40,560 --> 00:01:43,920 Speaker 1: financial literacy, in two thousand and six, you and your 26 00:01:43,959 --> 00:01:47,119 Speaker 1: wife decided to write a book about Benjamin Franklin. How 27 00:01:47,120 --> 00:01:47,920 Speaker 1: did that come about? 28 00:01:49,280 --> 00:01:52,480 Speaker 2: So, actually, what that book is about, it's called the 29 00:01:52,640 --> 00:01:57,160 Speaker 2: Completed Autobiography by Benjamin Franklin, so it's actually in his 30 00:01:57,200 --> 00:01:59,360 Speaker 2: own words. And what my wife and I did, we 31 00:01:59,400 --> 00:02:03,760 Speaker 2: went through the fifty volumes. There's fifty volumes of the 32 00:02:03,800 --> 00:02:08,240 Speaker 2: papers of Benjamin Franklin that are being compiled at Yale University, 33 00:02:08,280 --> 00:02:12,440 Speaker 2: and they're continuing to still put together these papers. We 34 00:02:12,600 --> 00:02:17,640 Speaker 2: thought one of the unfortunate events in ben Franklin's life 35 00:02:17,760 --> 00:02:21,440 Speaker 2: was that he started writing his autobiography late in life 36 00:02:21,480 --> 00:02:25,080 Speaker 2: and he never finished it. The autobiography that is so 37 00:02:25,280 --> 00:02:29,040 Speaker 2: famous that is in all the bookstores actually ends in 38 00:02:29,080 --> 00:02:33,280 Speaker 2: seventeen fifty seven, when Franklin's fifty two years of age 39 00:02:34,000 --> 00:02:37,760 Speaker 2: and he's just headed off to become a diplomat, a 40 00:02:38,000 --> 00:02:42,919 Speaker 2: London agent, and then there's the American Revolution and when 41 00:02:42,960 --> 00:02:47,560 Speaker 2: he goes to France and the Constitutional Convention, none of 42 00:02:47,560 --> 00:02:51,519 Speaker 2: that is in his autobiography. And my wife and I thought, wow, 43 00:02:51,720 --> 00:02:57,280 Speaker 2: you know, Ben Franklin, maybe we can finish his autobiography 44 00:02:57,480 --> 00:03:00,560 Speaker 2: by looking at his letters and the paper that he 45 00:03:00,639 --> 00:03:03,480 Speaker 2: wrote to see what is autobiographical, and see if we 46 00:03:03,480 --> 00:03:06,800 Speaker 2: could put together and complete his autobiography in his own name. 47 00:03:07,440 --> 00:03:09,560 Speaker 2: And it took over a year for us to do it, 48 00:03:09,680 --> 00:03:11,399 Speaker 2: but we were able to do it on the three 49 00:03:11,480 --> 00:03:14,760 Speaker 2: hundredth anniversary of his birth in two thousand and six, 50 00:03:15,760 --> 00:03:19,760 Speaker 2: and we published a book with Regnri called The Completed Autobiography. 51 00:03:20,000 --> 00:03:23,200 Speaker 2: It's his last thirty years, and it was a wonderful 52 00:03:23,360 --> 00:03:28,000 Speaker 2: revelation to hear in his own words what he thought 53 00:03:28,040 --> 00:03:32,400 Speaker 2: about the breakup with Britain, the declaration of Independence, and 54 00:03:32,480 --> 00:03:37,560 Speaker 2: his influence there, his nine years as ambassador to France, 55 00:03:37,680 --> 00:03:42,320 Speaker 2: and his critical role in raising funds and ammunition and 56 00:03:42,360 --> 00:03:46,400 Speaker 2: everything with the French which helped complete and win this 57 00:03:46,560 --> 00:03:50,360 Speaker 2: war against the mightiest army in the world. And then 58 00:03:50,640 --> 00:03:55,160 Speaker 2: at age eighty, he went back to the United States 59 00:03:55,400 --> 00:03:59,040 Speaker 2: and he helped formulate a new government. And so there's 60 00:03:59,280 --> 00:04:02,920 Speaker 2: all of his personal views about the Constitution and everything. 61 00:04:03,640 --> 00:04:06,280 Speaker 2: So that came out in two thousand and six, and 62 00:04:06,840 --> 00:04:10,120 Speaker 2: Franklin always said, I wish one of my children or 63 00:04:10,120 --> 00:04:13,600 Speaker 2: grandchildren would complete my autobiography because he ran out of 64 00:04:13,640 --> 00:04:16,520 Speaker 2: time and he died at seventeen ninety, at the age 65 00:04:16,520 --> 00:04:20,520 Speaker 2: of eighty four. And it was really a marvelous experience 66 00:04:20,600 --> 00:04:23,240 Speaker 2: for us. I felt after we had finished this that 67 00:04:23,279 --> 00:04:26,440 Speaker 2: Ben Franklin was looking down from the heavens, from the 68 00:04:26,440 --> 00:04:28,880 Speaker 2: spirit world and had a big smile on his face 69 00:04:28,920 --> 00:04:33,000 Speaker 2: to see that finally a descendant of Franklin had completed 70 00:04:33,040 --> 00:04:36,080 Speaker 2: his autobiography. So that's kind of a summary of what 71 00:04:36,400 --> 00:04:38,960 Speaker 2: that book was all about. It really was a revelation. 72 00:04:39,120 --> 00:04:41,440 Speaker 2: I learned a lot of new things and new quotes 73 00:04:41,880 --> 00:04:44,360 Speaker 2: from Ben Franklin as a result of that work. 74 00:04:44,680 --> 00:04:46,919 Speaker 1: What makes it doubly interesting, I did not know this 75 00:04:47,040 --> 00:04:51,039 Speaker 1: about you, is that you're actually related to Franklin. Talk 76 00:04:51,080 --> 00:04:51,440 Speaker 1: about that. 77 00:04:52,360 --> 00:04:55,760 Speaker 2: Yeah, that was a long standing tradition on my mother's side, 78 00:04:56,080 --> 00:05:00,000 Speaker 2: her name was Helen McCarty, that somehow we were related 79 00:05:00,240 --> 00:05:03,120 Speaker 2: to Benjamin Franklin. So my wife and I went to 80 00:05:03,160 --> 00:05:07,919 Speaker 2: Philadelphia one weekend and we went to the Philosophical Society 81 00:05:07,960 --> 00:05:10,040 Speaker 2: and we looked at some wills and so on to 82 00:05:10,040 --> 00:05:13,479 Speaker 2: try to figure out exactly how we were connected. And 83 00:05:13,480 --> 00:05:17,680 Speaker 2: there was one missing link, one generation that was missing. 84 00:05:18,360 --> 00:05:21,719 Speaker 2: We could trace it back to a great grandson of 85 00:05:21,760 --> 00:05:25,719 Speaker 2: Benjamin Franklin, but there was a missing link, and we 86 00:05:25,839 --> 00:05:30,440 Speaker 2: finally discovered the grandson of Benjamin Franklin. His name was 87 00:05:30,520 --> 00:05:35,200 Speaker 2: Lewis Beach and he was the son of Sally Beach 88 00:05:35,320 --> 00:05:38,360 Speaker 2: and her husband. Sally was a daughter of Ben Franklin. 89 00:05:38,400 --> 00:05:40,880 Speaker 2: So this is the grandson of Benjamin Franklin. His name 90 00:05:40,920 --> 00:05:46,039 Speaker 2: was Lewis Beach Senior, and we found a will, his 91 00:05:46,160 --> 00:05:49,960 Speaker 2: last will and testament, he referred to two natural quote 92 00:05:50,080 --> 00:05:55,000 Speaker 2: natural children. One was also named Lewis, and that's who 93 00:05:55,080 --> 00:05:59,280 Speaker 2: we found out we were related to. So Franklin continued 94 00:05:59,320 --> 00:06:02,440 Speaker 2: the tradition, and as you know, Franklin was famous for 95 00:06:03,200 --> 00:06:06,480 Speaker 2: having an illegitimate child, and it turned out that that 96 00:06:07,480 --> 00:06:12,120 Speaker 2: kind of tradition continued on in a number of generations 97 00:06:12,760 --> 00:06:17,000 Speaker 2: and the Franklin family the Beaches were so embarrassed by 98 00:06:17,040 --> 00:06:20,400 Speaker 2: it that they did not include the two natural illegitimate 99 00:06:20,480 --> 00:06:25,640 Speaker 2: children in the descendants in the genealogy. So we founded 100 00:06:25,680 --> 00:06:28,560 Speaker 2: in the will, and that's how we found we were connected. 101 00:06:28,600 --> 00:06:33,520 Speaker 2: So I'm a sixth generation direct grandson of Benjamin Franklin. 102 00:06:34,200 --> 00:06:37,200 Speaker 1: That means you have won five hundred and twelfth of 103 00:06:37,240 --> 00:06:38,080 Speaker 1: Franklin's blood. 104 00:06:39,160 --> 00:06:42,839 Speaker 2: That's right. I have not inherited much from Franklin. We're 105 00:06:42,839 --> 00:06:46,559 Speaker 2: both left handed. We both have written a quote book. 106 00:06:46,680 --> 00:06:49,320 Speaker 2: You know, he wrote Poor Richard's Almanac, and I've written 107 00:06:49,320 --> 00:06:52,000 Speaker 2: The Maximums of Wall Street. You know, he was kind 108 00:06:52,040 --> 00:06:56,000 Speaker 2: of a financial guru in many ways, giving personal advice 109 00:06:56,080 --> 00:07:00,359 Speaker 2: to people through is Poor Richard's Almanac, and which was 110 00:07:00,440 --> 00:07:04,600 Speaker 2: extremely popular that came out once a year. My Maxims 111 00:07:04,600 --> 00:07:08,560 Speaker 2: of Wall Street includes in it, I would say maybe 112 00:07:08,640 --> 00:07:12,400 Speaker 2: twenty quotes from Franklin. One of his most famous lines 113 00:07:12,440 --> 00:07:14,960 Speaker 2: he said, if fool and his money are soon parted, 114 00:07:15,720 --> 00:07:19,679 Speaker 2: and another great quote is nothing but money is sweeter 115 00:07:19,840 --> 00:07:23,680 Speaker 2: than honey. There's a number of great quotes that Franklin 116 00:07:23,760 --> 00:07:27,800 Speaker 2: had that were very applicable to today's world. Three can 117 00:07:27,880 --> 00:07:30,480 Speaker 2: keep a secret of two or dead. There's a lot 118 00:07:30,480 --> 00:07:34,400 Speaker 2: of great quotes that would be appropriate for today's personal finance. 119 00:07:34,960 --> 00:07:37,960 Speaker 1: How did all this lead to your latest book, which 120 00:07:38,040 --> 00:07:43,400 Speaker 1: is the greatest American Benjamin Franklin, the world's most versatile genius. 121 00:07:43,960 --> 00:07:48,320 Speaker 1: Why does Franklin, above all the founding fathers, deserve the 122 00:07:48,360 --> 00:07:50,160 Speaker 1: title the greatest American. 123 00:07:51,160 --> 00:07:54,400 Speaker 2: Well, I think there is this debate, of course, as 124 00:07:54,520 --> 00:07:57,600 Speaker 2: to who are the best and the brightest among our 125 00:07:58,400 --> 00:08:02,480 Speaker 2: three hundred five hundreds. Who knows how many Americans have lived. 126 00:08:03,000 --> 00:08:05,920 Speaker 2: You know, I'm obviously a little bit prejudice in making 127 00:08:06,000 --> 00:08:10,200 Speaker 2: Franklin the greatest American. But the subtitle is really important, 128 00:08:10,240 --> 00:08:12,920 Speaker 2: the world's most versatile genius. And I came up with 129 00:08:13,040 --> 00:08:18,480 Speaker 2: twenty two careers that Franklin had. Twenty two an inventor, 130 00:08:18,600 --> 00:08:23,560 Speaker 2: a scientist, a printer, a publisher, a businessman, a diplomat, 131 00:08:24,120 --> 00:08:27,960 Speaker 2: a humorist. He was the first postmaster general. He was 132 00:08:28,000 --> 00:08:32,200 Speaker 2: America's first scientific American. There's so many areas if you 133 00:08:32,320 --> 00:08:36,959 Speaker 2: compare that to Thomas Jefferson or George Washington, they were 134 00:08:37,080 --> 00:08:41,800 Speaker 2: limited in their careers. But Franklin was a versatile genius 135 00:08:41,840 --> 00:08:45,320 Speaker 2: in so many ways. So he obviously was a jack 136 00:08:45,360 --> 00:08:48,480 Speaker 2: of all trades and a master of most. And you 137 00:08:48,520 --> 00:08:51,600 Speaker 2: can't say that about any other American. I mean, if 138 00:08:51,640 --> 00:08:55,400 Speaker 2: you go to Thomas Edison, if you go to Elon Musk, 139 00:08:55,600 --> 00:09:01,000 Speaker 2: there's all these famous Americans or naturalized Americans. Do they 140 00:09:01,040 --> 00:09:04,920 Speaker 2: really have that versatility. Here's the other issue about Franklin, 141 00:09:04,960 --> 00:09:07,959 Speaker 2: which I find very appealing and one of the reasons 142 00:09:08,000 --> 00:09:10,840 Speaker 2: I decided to write this book. He's the kind of 143 00:09:10,920 --> 00:09:13,400 Speaker 2: person that you could sit down with and have a 144 00:09:13,440 --> 00:09:17,560 Speaker 2: beer with, and he would probably be pretty honest in 145 00:09:17,679 --> 00:09:22,200 Speaker 2: saying everything that you wanted to hear. He would be transparent, 146 00:09:22,679 --> 00:09:25,359 Speaker 2: and I don't think you could say that about George Washington. 147 00:09:25,840 --> 00:09:28,120 Speaker 2: He would not consider it appropriate for you to ask 148 00:09:28,160 --> 00:09:32,000 Speaker 2: why he didn't have any children, or Thomas Jefferson, what 149 00:09:32,200 --> 00:09:36,280 Speaker 2: was his relationship with Sally Hemmings the slave girl, Or 150 00:09:36,360 --> 00:09:38,760 Speaker 2: in case of John Adams, all you would get is 151 00:09:38,880 --> 00:09:42,640 Speaker 2: a lot of arguments, a little too feisty in a 152 00:09:42,880 --> 00:09:47,720 Speaker 2: debating type of format. So Franklin to me, seemed very approachable. 153 00:09:48,280 --> 00:09:51,000 Speaker 2: He would be comfortable sitting down and talking to a 154 00:09:51,040 --> 00:09:54,280 Speaker 2: working man, the plumber. He could talk to the plumber, 155 00:09:54,320 --> 00:09:56,440 Speaker 2: and he could also talk to the King of England. 156 00:09:56,960 --> 00:10:01,000 Speaker 2: That's pretty unique as far as Americans their achievements. 157 00:10:01,440 --> 00:10:04,959 Speaker 1: He had a very practical streak to his science when 158 00:10:05,400 --> 00:10:09,720 Speaker 1: inventing the lightning rod, the bifocal lens, the Franklin stove. 159 00:10:10,200 --> 00:10:13,360 Speaker 1: I mean, in many ways he used science to improve 160 00:10:13,400 --> 00:10:14,360 Speaker 1: the lives of people. 161 00:10:15,400 --> 00:10:18,800 Speaker 2: Newt. I think that's a very important point. He believed 162 00:10:19,120 --> 00:10:22,880 Speaker 2: that science should above all be useful and not just 163 00:10:23,000 --> 00:10:26,280 Speaker 2: be high theory. And the same thing in economics and 164 00:10:26,360 --> 00:10:31,480 Speaker 2: so many other areas where academics are constantly debating how 165 00:10:31,480 --> 00:10:34,760 Speaker 2: many angels are on the pin A lot of their 166 00:10:34,800 --> 00:10:37,640 Speaker 2: work is not valuable. And in fact, if you look 167 00:10:37,679 --> 00:10:40,760 Speaker 2: at many of the Nobel prizes that are given out 168 00:10:40,800 --> 00:10:44,560 Speaker 2: in science, a lot of them are high theory. Nobody 169 00:10:44,559 --> 00:10:48,439 Speaker 2: knows what they're all about. Same thing in economics. Many 170 00:10:48,559 --> 00:10:52,240 Speaker 2: cases you don't see the practical side. And in fact, 171 00:10:52,280 --> 00:10:54,959 Speaker 2: at the end of his life he said, the years 172 00:10:55,360 --> 00:10:59,240 Speaker 2: roll along, and then at the end, I want to 173 00:10:59,280 --> 00:11:03,280 Speaker 2: be known as being useful rather than I died rich. 174 00:11:04,040 --> 00:11:05,800 Speaker 2: So there's a lot to be said for that. I 175 00:11:05,880 --> 00:11:09,719 Speaker 2: would also apply that to religion. As you know, he 176 00:11:09,760 --> 00:11:12,160 Speaker 2: was a deist for most of his life. He was 177 00:11:12,200 --> 00:11:15,199 Speaker 2: a skeptic about religion. He was not a church goer. 178 00:11:15,400 --> 00:11:18,800 Speaker 2: John Adams and Abigail Adams thought he was a heretic, 179 00:11:19,559 --> 00:11:24,120 Speaker 2: but he was very interested in religion. But he said 180 00:11:24,200 --> 00:11:27,600 Speaker 2: the key to a good religion is that it's useful 181 00:11:27,679 --> 00:11:32,920 Speaker 2: and has practical charitable work. And helping other people rather 182 00:11:32,960 --> 00:11:35,720 Speaker 2: than just sitting in a chapel and listening to a 183 00:11:35,800 --> 00:11:53,440 Speaker 2: long sermon by Jonathan Edwards or somebody like that. 184 00:11:57,280 --> 00:12:02,719 Speaker 1: There's a range to Franklin. That's I think Franklin almost unimaginable. 185 00:12:03,640 --> 00:12:08,439 Speaker 1: Very successful businessman, very successful writer, very successful politician, very 186 00:12:08,480 --> 00:12:12,400 Speaker 1: successful inventor. Every time you turned around there was something 187 00:12:12,440 --> 00:12:14,960 Speaker 1: he was doing, and he seemed to do all of 188 00:12:14,960 --> 00:12:18,560 Speaker 1: it well. Why do you think he was so universally competent? 189 00:12:19,800 --> 00:12:23,360 Speaker 2: So he was born in a family in Boston. There 190 00:12:23,360 --> 00:12:29,319 Speaker 2: were thirteen brothers and sisters from two families. Josiah Franklin 191 00:12:29,600 --> 00:12:33,160 Speaker 2: and married another. He had ten children from one wife, 192 00:12:33,240 --> 00:12:36,920 Speaker 2: seven from another. He's like seventeen children and he was 193 00:12:36,960 --> 00:12:40,520 Speaker 2: the tenth child. When it comes to geniuses, a lot 194 00:12:40,520 --> 00:12:44,319 Speaker 2: of times they come from families that you don't expect brilliants. 195 00:12:44,400 --> 00:12:48,040 Speaker 2: This is God's little secret, isn't it about how people 196 00:12:48,120 --> 00:12:51,160 Speaker 2: are born and you have no expectation that they were 197 00:12:51,160 --> 00:12:55,280 Speaker 2: going to do well. But he was self learning right 198 00:12:55,320 --> 00:12:59,080 Speaker 2: from the very beginning. He loved read at night. When 199 00:12:59,080 --> 00:13:02,320 Speaker 2: he was a child, he would pull out the candlelight 200 00:13:02,480 --> 00:13:05,040 Speaker 2: and he would read at night. He was very versatile 201 00:13:05,720 --> 00:13:09,640 Speaker 2: in his reading. He was an apprentice for his older 202 00:13:09,640 --> 00:13:13,040 Speaker 2: brother James, so he got into the printing business and 203 00:13:13,080 --> 00:13:16,120 Speaker 2: the publishing business right from the get go. And you know, 204 00:13:16,160 --> 00:13:20,719 Speaker 2: if you're writing a newspaper, you're covering every subject imaginable. 205 00:13:21,120 --> 00:13:23,720 Speaker 2: There are so many different parts of a newspaper. And 206 00:13:23,760 --> 00:13:28,679 Speaker 2: I think his interest in all of God's creations caught 207 00:13:28,720 --> 00:13:32,480 Speaker 2: his imagination. And he traveled a lot. This is another 208 00:13:32,520 --> 00:13:37,199 Speaker 2: important point. He ran away at age seventeen, ended up 209 00:13:37,240 --> 00:13:41,600 Speaker 2: in Pennsylvania, dirt poor, had no money, but he had 210 00:13:41,760 --> 00:13:46,000 Speaker 2: a printer's expertise, and so he immediately started working for 211 00:13:46,080 --> 00:13:50,240 Speaker 2: some printers in Philadelphia. As a printer, you also get 212 00:13:50,240 --> 00:13:54,400 Speaker 2: involved in local politics right away. And he ended up 213 00:13:54,480 --> 00:13:57,319 Speaker 2: going to England as a very young man, like at 214 00:13:57,520 --> 00:14:01,080 Speaker 2: age twenty or maybe even nineteen. He's spent a couple 215 00:14:01,120 --> 00:14:04,000 Speaker 2: of years in London. It was there that he had 216 00:14:04,040 --> 00:14:07,640 Speaker 2: to deal with the hard to govern passions. And you know, 217 00:14:07,720 --> 00:14:11,240 Speaker 2: he's alone, He's a young adult, alone in the world, 218 00:14:11,240 --> 00:14:14,360 Speaker 2: and had to learn things very quickly. He was no 219 00:14:14,520 --> 00:14:18,280 Speaker 2: doubt a genius from the very beginning. By the way, 220 00:14:18,440 --> 00:14:21,320 Speaker 2: my book is not a typical biography. It's not like 221 00:14:21,400 --> 00:14:25,240 Speaker 2: Walter Isaacson's book on Ben Franklin, which I highly recommend, 222 00:14:25,280 --> 00:14:30,560 Speaker 2: or HW Brands. There's been dozens of biographies written on Franklin, 223 00:14:30,640 --> 00:14:35,360 Speaker 2: but my book, The Greatest American has eighty short chapters, 224 00:14:36,080 --> 00:14:40,600 Speaker 2: and each one addresses one or two particular topics that 225 00:14:40,720 --> 00:14:43,680 Speaker 2: Franklin would be interested in. It's really a book to 226 00:14:43,760 --> 00:14:46,520 Speaker 2: talk about the issues of today. How can you apply 227 00:14:46,720 --> 00:14:51,640 Speaker 2: Franklin's life in his views on today's hot issues, whether 228 00:14:51,680 --> 00:14:57,440 Speaker 2: it's taxes, inflation, the trade war, war and rumors of wars, 229 00:14:58,080 --> 00:15:02,040 Speaker 2: or women sex. And I should tell you in terms 230 00:15:02,040 --> 00:15:06,560 Speaker 2: of background, this book germinated from a series of columns 231 00:15:06,600 --> 00:15:09,840 Speaker 2: that I wrote for Newsmas. They have a newsletter called 232 00:15:09,840 --> 00:15:13,640 Speaker 2: the Franklin Prosperity Report. So for six or seven years 233 00:15:13,640 --> 00:15:17,760 Speaker 2: I wrote these short columns that became chapters in my book, 234 00:15:18,760 --> 00:15:23,040 Speaker 2: and they accepted every chapter or every column I wrote, 235 00:15:23,080 --> 00:15:27,880 Speaker 2: except for one. And what topic do you think they rejected? Oh, 236 00:15:27,920 --> 00:15:31,360 Speaker 2: I'm fascinating to what the hard to govern passions of 237 00:15:31,440 --> 00:15:35,920 Speaker 2: Ben Franklin. It was the sex column. So that's chapter 238 00:15:36,000 --> 00:15:39,800 Speaker 2: seventy seven of my book that is now included in there. 239 00:15:39,840 --> 00:15:44,360 Speaker 2: And basically, you know Newsmas they have a conservative audience. 240 00:15:44,560 --> 00:15:47,680 Speaker 2: I don't know. I thought I handled the topic pretty well, 241 00:15:47,760 --> 00:15:50,640 Speaker 2: but you know, he did have an illegitimate child, William, 242 00:15:50,920 --> 00:15:54,320 Speaker 2: who played a major role in his life, but he 243 00:15:54,360 --> 00:15:57,240 Speaker 2: only had one illegitimate child. One of the rumors is 244 00:15:57,240 --> 00:16:01,760 Speaker 2: that Franklin couldn't control his sexual habits and he had 245 00:16:01,840 --> 00:16:05,640 Speaker 2: numerous children out of wedlock, and that's not true. He 246 00:16:05,840 --> 00:16:08,680 Speaker 2: actually just had one, and he settled down and married 247 00:16:08,720 --> 00:16:11,720 Speaker 2: his wife, Deborah, and they were devoted to each other. 248 00:16:11,840 --> 00:16:16,720 Speaker 2: They were very different personalities and they eventually became somewhat 249 00:16:16,840 --> 00:16:20,600 Speaker 2: estrange when Franklin left to be the London Colonial Agent, 250 00:16:20,760 --> 00:16:23,880 Speaker 2: and then his wife died and he became ambassadors. So 251 00:16:23,960 --> 00:16:26,080 Speaker 2: there are lots of stories that I have in my 252 00:16:26,200 --> 00:16:29,960 Speaker 2: book and they also come out in the completed autobiography 253 00:16:30,000 --> 00:16:33,640 Speaker 2: about Franklin's love of women. He was definitely a ladies man. 254 00:16:34,200 --> 00:16:37,480 Speaker 2: His critics call him a womanizer and a lecture. There 255 00:16:37,520 --> 00:16:40,480 Speaker 2: is controversy in Ben Franklin's life, and he did have 256 00:16:40,520 --> 00:16:43,920 Speaker 2: a lot of enemies despite all of his diplomatic successes. 257 00:16:44,440 --> 00:16:47,840 Speaker 1: A couple side notes. I read that Franklin took air BEVs. 258 00:16:48,760 --> 00:16:49,680 Speaker 1: What did that mean? 259 00:16:51,160 --> 00:16:54,400 Speaker 2: He was famous and actually talked about it, wrote letters 260 00:16:54,400 --> 00:16:58,480 Speaker 2: about it, maybe even publicly commented about that you needed 261 00:16:58,560 --> 00:17:02,440 Speaker 2: to walk around in the nude and open up the 262 00:17:02,480 --> 00:17:08,159 Speaker 2: windows and breathe in the really fresh air. And he 263 00:17:08,280 --> 00:17:11,920 Speaker 2: had a dispute one time with John Adams in seventeen 264 00:17:12,080 --> 00:17:16,080 Speaker 2: seventy six after the declaration, they were both staying together. 265 00:17:16,640 --> 00:17:19,320 Speaker 2: They were planning to meet one of the generals to 266 00:17:19,359 --> 00:17:21,479 Speaker 2: see if they could resolve the war. So they were 267 00:17:21,560 --> 00:17:24,639 Speaker 2: sleeping in the same room and actually the same bed. 268 00:17:24,840 --> 00:17:27,480 Speaker 2: That was very typical back then that you shared a 269 00:17:27,520 --> 00:17:31,639 Speaker 2: bed together. And Franklin opens up the windows and says, 270 00:17:31,640 --> 00:17:34,399 Speaker 2: we got to let this fresh air in all night long, 271 00:17:34,600 --> 00:17:37,040 Speaker 2: and Adams is saying, I'm going to freeze to death. 272 00:17:37,400 --> 00:17:41,000 Speaker 2: Close the window. They had this big argument. But yeah, 273 00:17:41,080 --> 00:17:44,679 Speaker 2: he was famous for parading around naked and opening up 274 00:17:44,680 --> 00:17:47,480 Speaker 2: the windows and breathing and so forth. So he was 275 00:17:47,520 --> 00:17:49,000 Speaker 2: the first American nudist. 276 00:17:50,520 --> 00:17:53,760 Speaker 1: He was eccentric. There's a story that while he was 277 00:17:53,800 --> 00:17:57,520 Speaker 1: active in Pennsylvania state politics, he was also in a 278 00:17:57,560 --> 00:18:01,480 Speaker 1: situation where he had some opponents who were trying to 279 00:18:02,040 --> 00:18:05,280 Speaker 1: pressure him. He invited him to dinner, and as the 280 00:18:05,320 --> 00:18:09,280 Speaker 1: story is told, he basically served pieces of wood, served 281 00:18:09,320 --> 00:18:12,199 Speaker 1: them as though they were a porridge ate his bowl complete. 282 00:18:12,240 --> 00:18:16,040 Speaker 1: The other guys couldn't eat anything. Hardly elia done. He said, gentlemen, 283 00:18:16,760 --> 00:18:18,680 Speaker 1: if I'm able to do that, why would you think 284 00:18:18,720 --> 00:18:19,600 Speaker 1: you can pressure me? 285 00:18:20,440 --> 00:18:20,560 Speaker 2: Now. 286 00:18:20,560 --> 00:18:21,760 Speaker 1: I don't know if that story is too or now, 287 00:18:21,800 --> 00:18:24,320 Speaker 1: but I've always thought it was a fascinating sense of 288 00:18:25,160 --> 00:18:27,720 Speaker 1: how tough and how direct Franklin was capable of being. 289 00:18:28,720 --> 00:18:31,239 Speaker 2: I have to say. I mean, I've studied Franklin all 290 00:18:31,280 --> 00:18:33,159 Speaker 2: my life and I've never heard that story, but it 291 00:18:33,280 --> 00:18:37,359 Speaker 2: sounds very Franklin esque. He was actually very much a 292 00:18:37,400 --> 00:18:41,800 Speaker 2: compromiser in his politics, and this is why ken Burns says, 293 00:18:41,800 --> 00:18:45,000 Speaker 2: and I think he's right, he is America's greatest diplomat. 294 00:18:45,400 --> 00:18:51,400 Speaker 2: He was definitely wanting to convert and persuade, if you will, 295 00:18:51,640 --> 00:18:55,600 Speaker 2: those who disagreed with him on various issues. And so 296 00:18:55,760 --> 00:18:59,560 Speaker 2: that's the Franklin that I have been studying. For example, 297 00:18:59,680 --> 00:19:02,280 Speaker 2: he had this enemy and the legislature. They did not 298 00:19:02,400 --> 00:19:05,360 Speaker 2: get along at all. And finally Franklin decided to go 299 00:19:05,440 --> 00:19:08,560 Speaker 2: and he said, listen, I see in your library you 300 00:19:08,600 --> 00:19:10,920 Speaker 2: have a certain book. I'd like to borrow that book. 301 00:19:10,920 --> 00:19:14,280 Speaker 2: Would you mind loaning it to me? And as a result, 302 00:19:14,359 --> 00:19:16,840 Speaker 2: they became fast friends, and they were able to work 303 00:19:16,840 --> 00:19:21,080 Speaker 2: together in the legislature. He was very successful at doing this, 304 00:19:21,200 --> 00:19:24,200 Speaker 2: and he was very much involved with the Constitutional Convention, 305 00:19:24,400 --> 00:19:29,760 Speaker 2: for example, and the Constitutional Congress in the Declaration of 306 00:19:29,800 --> 00:19:34,520 Speaker 2: Independence in favor of Declaration, in favor of the Constitution. 307 00:19:34,680 --> 00:19:37,120 Speaker 2: You know, he's one of the few founders who signed 308 00:19:37,119 --> 00:19:42,400 Speaker 2: to both documents. He was very much active in making 309 00:19:42,640 --> 00:19:46,840 Speaker 2: improvements and changes behind the scenes. I mean Franklin. He 310 00:19:47,040 --> 00:19:49,760 Speaker 2: wasn't the author of the Declaration of Independence, that was 311 00:19:49,800 --> 00:19:53,040 Speaker 2: Thomas Jefferson, but he was asked to review the document. 312 00:19:53,160 --> 00:19:57,920 Speaker 2: He made only one significant change in the Declaration of Independence. 313 00:19:58,200 --> 00:20:02,600 Speaker 1: You make the point that he he takes out sacred 314 00:20:02,600 --> 00:20:06,160 Speaker 1: and undeniable, which I guess was Jefferson's language, and replaces 315 00:20:06,160 --> 00:20:09,200 Speaker 1: it with self evident. What was Franklin's reasoning. 316 00:20:09,800 --> 00:20:13,359 Speaker 2: Yeah, so that one word change is really significant. So 317 00:20:13,560 --> 00:20:16,840 Speaker 2: Jefferson did say, we hold these truths to be sacred 318 00:20:16,880 --> 00:20:20,440 Speaker 2: and undeniable, and Franklin in his left hand, you can 319 00:20:20,480 --> 00:20:24,720 Speaker 2: see him scratching the words sacred and undeniable out, which 320 00:20:24,760 --> 00:20:29,399 Speaker 2: is a very religious perspective, and replacing it with self evident. 321 00:20:30,040 --> 00:20:33,520 Speaker 2: Because he was a rational scientist. It was his science 322 00:20:33,600 --> 00:20:38,119 Speaker 2: coming out his secularism if you will, and you know 323 00:20:38,160 --> 00:20:40,560 Speaker 2: he was a deist. He was not an atheist, although 324 00:20:40,560 --> 00:20:43,520 Speaker 2: many of his friends accused him of being a heretic 325 00:20:43,680 --> 00:20:45,439 Speaker 2: when it came to religion because he was not a 326 00:20:45,520 --> 00:20:48,360 Speaker 2: church goer. So that is the one change that he 327 00:20:48,480 --> 00:20:51,280 Speaker 2: made that we all say self evident that all men 328 00:20:51,359 --> 00:20:55,320 Speaker 2: are created equal, endow with their creator with certain inalienable 329 00:20:55,680 --> 00:20:59,560 Speaker 2: rights life, liberty, in the pursuit of happiness. I think 330 00:20:59,600 --> 00:21:03,439 Speaker 2: Franklin would have preferred the pursuit of wealth, but happiness 331 00:21:03,600 --> 00:21:05,800 Speaker 2: was definitely something he would be interested in. 332 00:21:06,280 --> 00:21:11,960 Speaker 1: As I understand happiness in the Scottish Enlightenment meant wisdom 333 00:21:12,000 --> 00:21:12,560 Speaker 1: and virtue. 334 00:21:13,320 --> 00:21:17,159 Speaker 2: Yes, I think that's actually a better way of describing it, 335 00:21:17,240 --> 00:21:21,080 Speaker 2: and I think we've moved away from that unfortunately. And 336 00:21:21,119 --> 00:21:24,680 Speaker 2: Franklin was always an optimist in that respect in terms 337 00:21:24,720 --> 00:21:28,639 Speaker 2: of happiness and stuff. He was not bothered, particularly by 338 00:21:28,920 --> 00:21:31,919 Speaker 2: getting too old and having all the ailments and the 339 00:21:31,960 --> 00:21:37,000 Speaker 2: gout and the kidney stones, and he said, basically, life 340 00:21:37,040 --> 00:21:39,840 Speaker 2: has been good to me. He's had a positive attitude there. 341 00:21:58,920 --> 00:22:02,040 Speaker 1: He was the oldest memory of the Constitutional Convention. 342 00:22:02,920 --> 00:22:06,439 Speaker 2: Correct. He died when he was eighty four. He was 343 00:22:06,480 --> 00:22:08,480 Speaker 2: in his early eighties, and of course he had to 344 00:22:08,520 --> 00:22:12,280 Speaker 2: be carried in because of the gout and kidney stone 345 00:22:12,359 --> 00:22:15,040 Speaker 2: problems that he had. He really thought he was going 346 00:22:15,119 --> 00:22:17,280 Speaker 2: to die in France, but he was able to make 347 00:22:17,320 --> 00:22:20,719 Speaker 2: it home and he did help out. He invited people 348 00:22:20,800 --> 00:22:24,800 Speaker 2: to his home for dinners. He played in the background 349 00:22:25,080 --> 00:22:29,720 Speaker 2: with the constitutional convention. He encouraged prayer at a time 350 00:22:29,840 --> 00:22:33,560 Speaker 2: when they were at loggerheads as to what to do 351 00:22:33,640 --> 00:22:37,959 Speaker 2: between the House and the Senate and representation. He was 352 00:22:38,240 --> 00:22:41,720 Speaker 2: very helpful in those kinds of compromises. 353 00:22:42,160 --> 00:22:45,199 Speaker 1: Didn't he actually suggest when they were at loggerheads they 354 00:22:45,240 --> 00:22:47,640 Speaker 1: take one day off for a day of prayer and fasting, 355 00:22:48,280 --> 00:22:51,119 Speaker 1: just to sort of break the tension and break the 356 00:22:51,160 --> 00:22:52,080 Speaker 1: ego centrism. 357 00:22:52,920 --> 00:22:56,080 Speaker 2: Yes, he did, And while he was giving that talk, 358 00:22:56,240 --> 00:22:59,520 Speaker 2: that's where he reveals. One of the things we learned 359 00:22:59,520 --> 00:23:04,320 Speaker 2: in completely reading Franklin's autobiography is that Franklin changed his 360 00:23:04,359 --> 00:23:08,040 Speaker 2: mind about religion. Not that he became a regular churchgoer, 361 00:23:08,440 --> 00:23:11,600 Speaker 2: but he used to be a deist. He used to 362 00:23:11,640 --> 00:23:15,080 Speaker 2: believe that God just created a clock and then just 363 00:23:15,160 --> 00:23:18,440 Speaker 2: let it run. But he said, have we not learned 364 00:23:18,440 --> 00:23:21,360 Speaker 2: that God intervened many times so that we would win 365 00:23:21,400 --> 00:23:24,480 Speaker 2: this war of independence. The longer I live, the more 366 00:23:24,600 --> 00:23:28,080 Speaker 2: I know that God governs in the affairs of men. 367 00:23:28,840 --> 00:23:32,280 Speaker 2: So he became an active theist at that point as 368 00:23:32,280 --> 00:23:35,360 Speaker 2: a result of these miracles that he saw that George 369 00:23:35,400 --> 00:23:40,520 Speaker 2: Washington and others enjoyed against the most powerful military might 370 00:23:40,640 --> 00:23:44,280 Speaker 2: in the world. So they rejected it though, because they 371 00:23:44,280 --> 00:23:46,640 Speaker 2: didn't have any money and they couldn't hire a minister, 372 00:23:47,000 --> 00:23:48,679 Speaker 2: they decided against prayer. 373 00:23:49,920 --> 00:23:52,679 Speaker 1: Washington had a very similar sense and said that it 374 00:23:52,760 --> 00:23:56,440 Speaker 1: was impossible to imagine that we would have won without 375 00:23:56,480 --> 00:23:57,520 Speaker 1: the intervention of God. 376 00:23:58,160 --> 00:24:02,600 Speaker 2: Yeah, so there was definitely a feeling among the Founding 377 00:24:02,720 --> 00:24:06,320 Speaker 2: Fathers that God was on their side and they were 378 00:24:06,320 --> 00:24:10,040 Speaker 2: doing God's well. So I think that impressed even people 379 00:24:10,080 --> 00:24:12,639 Speaker 2: like Ben Franklin who are skeptical about religion. At the 380 00:24:12,760 --> 00:24:15,320 Speaker 2: end of his life, he said, you know, I've reached 381 00:24:15,320 --> 00:24:17,840 Speaker 2: the time of ages. It'd be easier for me to 382 00:24:17,920 --> 00:24:20,000 Speaker 2: just wait until I get over the other side to 383 00:24:20,000 --> 00:24:22,560 Speaker 2: see whether Jesus is the savior of the world. 384 00:24:23,400 --> 00:24:25,879 Speaker 1: In the middle of the positive part, for some reason, 385 00:24:25,960 --> 00:24:28,520 Speaker 1: he and John Adams really didn't get along. What was 386 00:24:28,560 --> 00:24:29,159 Speaker 1: the base of that? 387 00:24:30,600 --> 00:24:34,160 Speaker 2: So this happened. They were getting along fairly well. When 388 00:24:34,320 --> 00:24:37,520 Speaker 2: the Continent of Congress in seventeen seventy six had the 389 00:24:37,560 --> 00:24:43,400 Speaker 2: Declaration of Independence, Franklin recognized that John Adams was a 390 00:24:43,400 --> 00:24:49,320 Speaker 2: cantankerous and debating type of person. The real conflict occurred 391 00:24:49,400 --> 00:24:55,640 Speaker 2: when Franklin and Adams were together as ambassadors commissioners if 392 00:24:55,680 --> 00:24:58,920 Speaker 2: you will, in Paris. So Franklin went over there first 393 00:24:59,000 --> 00:25:02,520 Speaker 2: in late seventeen seventy six. John Adams came a year 394 00:25:02,600 --> 00:25:07,719 Speaker 2: or two later and was just a polled by Franklin's behavior. 395 00:25:08,359 --> 00:25:13,320 Speaker 2: He was disorganized, the papers were everywhere, there were spies everywhere. 396 00:25:13,560 --> 00:25:17,679 Speaker 2: Franklin didn't really care that much about the spies, and 397 00:25:17,760 --> 00:25:21,560 Speaker 2: so forth. He was beloved by the French. Both men 398 00:25:21,640 --> 00:25:26,000 Speaker 2: and women love Franklin. And there's this one particular case 399 00:25:26,080 --> 00:25:30,520 Speaker 2: where John and Abigail Adams attended a salon that was 400 00:25:30,600 --> 00:25:33,600 Speaker 2: run by Madame Elvy SEUs, and Madame elvis SEUs was 401 00:25:33,640 --> 00:25:37,440 Speaker 2: putting her arms around Franklin and kissing him, and everybody 402 00:25:37,640 --> 00:25:41,160 Speaker 2: was seeing him very in a social way. And John 403 00:25:41,200 --> 00:25:45,360 Speaker 2: and Abigail Adams, they were very puritanical in their religious views. 404 00:25:45,800 --> 00:25:50,080 Speaker 2: They didn't like the way women fondled over Franklin. And 405 00:25:50,119 --> 00:25:55,360 Speaker 2: the other big issue was Franklin had an incredible ability 406 00:25:55,720 --> 00:26:02,240 Speaker 2: to raise funds and loans from France and ammunition and uniforms, 407 00:26:02,320 --> 00:26:06,399 Speaker 2: and sent several generals over there, including Lafayette. He was 408 00:26:06,480 --> 00:26:10,120 Speaker 2: so successful that I think John Adams was very envious 409 00:26:10,160 --> 00:26:14,520 Speaker 2: of his success. John Adams learned French better, but hated 410 00:26:14,520 --> 00:26:18,360 Speaker 2: the French. He did not like the French culture. Adams 411 00:26:18,400 --> 00:26:21,680 Speaker 2: loved it. So there were a lot of factors involved, 412 00:26:21,720 --> 00:26:24,359 Speaker 2: and the biggest problem was that John Adams could not 413 00:26:24,520 --> 00:26:29,119 Speaker 2: raise a single livre, the French currency, in terms of 414 00:26:29,240 --> 00:26:32,679 Speaker 2: loans and grants to fight the war. He ended up 415 00:26:32,720 --> 00:26:35,920 Speaker 2: got a Dutch loan, but that was after the war 416 00:26:36,080 --> 00:26:39,119 Speaker 2: was over. Basically he raised the money after the Battle 417 00:26:39,160 --> 00:26:41,640 Speaker 2: of Yorktown. But if you look at the Battle of Yorktown, 418 00:26:41,680 --> 00:26:45,880 Speaker 2: that was the deciding factor in seventeen eighty one when 419 00:26:45,920 --> 00:26:49,040 Speaker 2: the war was won. And if you look at that 420 00:26:49,200 --> 00:26:53,199 Speaker 2: battle that George Washington won, half the ships were French, 421 00:26:53,280 --> 00:26:57,040 Speaker 2: the uniforms were French, half the troops were French. Most 422 00:26:57,119 --> 00:27:01,199 Speaker 2: historians agree that without the French participation, it would have 423 00:27:01,240 --> 00:27:05,960 Speaker 2: been another ten years fighting for independence. So Franklin has 424 00:27:06,000 --> 00:27:08,960 Speaker 2: to be really given all the credit, not John Adams, 425 00:27:09,080 --> 00:27:13,119 Speaker 2: but Ben Franklin for working with Virgin the Foreign Minister 426 00:27:13,240 --> 00:27:16,199 Speaker 2: and raising all this money. In fact, I have a 427 00:27:16,320 --> 00:27:20,239 Speaker 2: chapter on fundraising and I use Ben Franklin as the 428 00:27:20,280 --> 00:27:24,800 Speaker 2: best example. He was famous for fundraising. Back in Philadelphia, 429 00:27:24,920 --> 00:27:28,679 Speaker 2: he raised money for the hospitals and the matching funds 430 00:27:28,800 --> 00:27:32,840 Speaker 2: idea that if you pay ten grand, we will match that. 431 00:27:32,840 --> 00:27:35,840 Speaker 2: That came from Ben Franklin in raising money for the hospital. 432 00:27:36,400 --> 00:27:39,200 Speaker 2: But in France, one of the fun things that he 433 00:27:39,240 --> 00:27:42,480 Speaker 2: did was Congress said you've got to go back to 434 00:27:42,520 --> 00:27:45,800 Speaker 2: the French and ask for more money. Franklin said, no, no, no, 435 00:27:45,920 --> 00:27:48,080 Speaker 2: we've asked for money and we're going to look like 436 00:27:48,119 --> 00:27:51,320 Speaker 2: we're desperate. But finally he wrote this letter to Virgin 437 00:27:51,480 --> 00:27:54,840 Speaker 2: the Foreign Minister, saying we need another twenty million livre 438 00:27:55,480 --> 00:27:57,560 Speaker 2: to keep this war going. And he wrote it in 439 00:27:57,600 --> 00:28:01,680 Speaker 2: the best diplomatic language here back from Virgina at all. 440 00:28:01,960 --> 00:28:04,480 Speaker 2: And wrote another letter a week later saying did you 441 00:28:04,520 --> 00:28:07,399 Speaker 2: get my letter? And Virgin said, listen, come to Versailles 442 00:28:07,480 --> 00:28:11,000 Speaker 2: and we'll discuss it. So he gets in his carriage, 443 00:28:11,040 --> 00:28:13,919 Speaker 2: he goes to Versailles. He meets with Virgin and Virgin 444 00:28:14,080 --> 00:28:17,080 Speaker 2: has this real dark mood on his face, and he says, 445 00:28:17,160 --> 00:28:22,080 Speaker 2: doctor Franklin, don't you realize that we know that you've 446 00:28:22,160 --> 00:28:25,920 Speaker 2: run out of money. You don't have any credit anymore. 447 00:28:26,000 --> 00:28:29,040 Speaker 2: You can't even pay the interest on these debts. And 448 00:28:29,080 --> 00:28:32,560 Speaker 2: not only that, but we're broke too. We have all 449 00:28:32,680 --> 00:28:35,639 Speaker 2: kinds of problems. Our budget is broken. We don't have 450 00:28:35,640 --> 00:28:39,320 Speaker 2: any money either. So I'm sorry, doctor Franklin. We can't 451 00:28:39,440 --> 00:28:43,240 Speaker 2: loan you your twenty million livre. We can't even loan 452 00:28:43,320 --> 00:28:47,120 Speaker 2: you a single livra. And then he paused, and then 453 00:28:47,120 --> 00:28:50,520 Speaker 2: he said, but because of your love of our country, 454 00:28:50,800 --> 00:28:53,400 Speaker 2: and because we love you and the king loves you, 455 00:28:53,920 --> 00:28:57,440 Speaker 2: the King of France has decided to give you, as 456 00:28:57,480 --> 00:29:04,600 Speaker 2: a personal grant, a gift of six million livre. So 457 00:29:05,000 --> 00:29:08,560 Speaker 2: that's what I call fundraising extraordinary. 458 00:29:09,520 --> 00:29:12,880 Speaker 1: It really is amazing. What would you say for young 459 00:29:12,880 --> 00:29:17,440 Speaker 1: people today? What is Franklin's greatest legacy? 460 00:29:17,680 --> 00:29:23,320 Speaker 2: So Franklin is a firm believer in as far as 461 00:29:23,400 --> 00:29:27,880 Speaker 2: people's personal life and what they decide to do. He 462 00:29:27,920 --> 00:29:33,080 Speaker 2: would probably offer advice to how can you channel your 463 00:29:33,200 --> 00:29:39,520 Speaker 2: hard to govern passions into a useful life, to think more, 464 00:29:39,760 --> 00:29:43,040 Speaker 2: not just of yourself but of others, I think there's 465 00:29:43,080 --> 00:29:46,160 Speaker 2: a lot to be said for that. He was really 466 00:29:46,360 --> 00:29:51,520 Speaker 2: utilitarian in so many ways. Make your life useful, but 467 00:29:51,840 --> 00:29:54,160 Speaker 2: in order to do that, you need an education. He 468 00:29:54,400 --> 00:30:00,240 Speaker 2: emphasized over and over the development of wisdom through education, 469 00:30:01,040 --> 00:30:05,640 Speaker 2: and to control your emotions. You can't destroy your emotions. 470 00:30:05,680 --> 00:30:09,720 Speaker 2: You've got to channel them in the right direction, and 471 00:30:09,840 --> 00:30:13,280 Speaker 2: that means getting a job that you really enjoy. Eventually, 472 00:30:13,480 --> 00:30:15,760 Speaker 2: he had to do a lot of hard work, the 473 00:30:15,760 --> 00:30:17,920 Speaker 2: things he didn't want to do in life. As a 474 00:30:17,960 --> 00:30:22,360 Speaker 2: young man, he made mistakes and he recognized in his 475 00:30:22,400 --> 00:30:26,120 Speaker 2: autobiography he talks about the errata because it the errata 476 00:30:26,160 --> 00:30:30,120 Speaker 2: of his life, and of course having an illegitimate child 477 00:30:30,440 --> 00:30:33,080 Speaker 2: was a real problem that he had to overcome, and 478 00:30:33,120 --> 00:30:37,480 Speaker 2: he was constantly overcoming his errors. And one of the 479 00:30:37,520 --> 00:30:40,600 Speaker 2: things I really liked about him is in the autobiography 480 00:30:40,600 --> 00:30:45,560 Speaker 2: he talks about the thirteen virtues that he wanted to emphasize, 481 00:30:45,840 --> 00:30:49,440 Speaker 2: and frugality was one of them. Silence was another. He 482 00:30:49,600 --> 00:30:55,480 Speaker 2: was not known to be particularly loquacious, and moderation was 483 00:30:56,000 --> 00:30:58,760 Speaker 2: virtue as well. And when he finished, he had twelve 484 00:30:58,800 --> 00:31:02,840 Speaker 2: of them. Initially, and when he was finished, a friend 485 00:31:02,840 --> 00:31:05,800 Speaker 2: of his said, well, I've looked at your twelve virtues, 486 00:31:05,840 --> 00:31:08,400 Speaker 2: and I see you've left out one because do you know, 487 00:31:08,560 --> 00:31:12,280 Speaker 2: doctor Franklin, You're known as a very arrogant and vain person. 488 00:31:12,400 --> 00:31:16,680 Speaker 2: Did you know that? And Franklin said, well, no, tell 489 00:31:16,720 --> 00:31:19,280 Speaker 2: me more, and so he took that to heart. So 490 00:31:19,320 --> 00:31:23,960 Speaker 2: he added humility as his thirteenth virtue. I don't know 491 00:31:24,000 --> 00:31:26,360 Speaker 2: if that answers your question or not, but I do 492 00:31:26,440 --> 00:31:30,120 Speaker 2: think he really wanted to focus on being a useful 493 00:31:30,240 --> 00:31:34,320 Speaker 2: person and an active person, not one who just sits 494 00:31:34,400 --> 00:31:39,600 Speaker 2: back and waits for opportunities to come to you. You 495 00:31:39,680 --> 00:31:43,719 Speaker 2: have to go out and actively seek results, just like 496 00:31:43,800 --> 00:31:46,920 Speaker 2: you did. You decided to run for office. I mean 497 00:31:47,200 --> 00:31:49,240 Speaker 2: you didn't have to do that. You could have remained 498 00:31:49,240 --> 00:31:52,240 Speaker 2: a teacher, and a teacher is one of the greatest 499 00:31:52,240 --> 00:31:55,840 Speaker 2: callings you can ever have. But you decided on your 500 00:31:55,880 --> 00:32:00,000 Speaker 2: own to run for office. And what a difference that made. 501 00:32:00,120 --> 00:32:02,400 Speaker 1: Generous of you. I really want to thank you for 502 00:32:02,480 --> 00:32:06,080 Speaker 1: joining me. Mark. You're an extraordinarily prolific writer. You've made 503 00:32:06,080 --> 00:32:09,640 Speaker 1: a huge impact and taught people a lot. Your new book, 504 00:32:10,000 --> 00:32:14,080 Speaker 1: The Greatest American Benjamin Franklin, the world's most versatile Genius 505 00:32:14,360 --> 00:32:17,760 Speaker 1: is available now in Amazon and in bookstores everywhere, and 506 00:32:17,800 --> 00:32:20,680 Speaker 1: I think you've really brought it to life in this conversation. 507 00:32:21,360 --> 00:32:23,280 Speaker 2: Great. Thank you very much. You know it's been a 508 00:32:23,320 --> 00:32:23,920 Speaker 2: real pleasure. 509 00:32:27,280 --> 00:32:29,640 Speaker 1: Thank you to my guest Mark Skelsen. You can get 510 00:32:29,640 --> 00:32:32,520 Speaker 1: a link to buy his new book, The Greatest American 511 00:32:32,960 --> 00:32:37,040 Speaker 1: Benjamin Franklin, the World's most Versatile Genius on our show 512 00:32:37,040 --> 00:32:40,719 Speaker 1: page at newtsworld dot com. Newsworld is produced by Gingish 513 00:32:40,720 --> 00:32:45,480 Speaker 1: three sixty and iHeartMedia. Our executive producers Guardnsei Sloan. Our 514 00:32:45,560 --> 00:32:48,920 Speaker 1: researcher is Rachel Peterson. The all work for the show 515 00:32:49,360 --> 00:32:52,440 Speaker 1: was created by Steve Penley. Special thanks to the team 516 00:32:52,480 --> 00:32:55,720 Speaker 1: at Ginish three sixty. If you've been enjoying Newsworld, I 517 00:32:55,760 --> 00:32:58,280 Speaker 1: hope you'll get Apple Podcasts and both rate us with 518 00:32:58,360 --> 00:33:01,040 Speaker 1: five stars and give us a review so others can 519 00:33:01,120 --> 00:33:04,440 Speaker 1: learn what it's all about. Right now, listeners of Newtworld 520 00:33:04,440 --> 00:33:08,560 Speaker 1: consigner for my three freeweekly columns at GINGRISHFREI sixty dot 521 00:33:08,560 --> 00:33:12,440 Speaker 1: com slash newsletter. I'm Newt Gingrich. This is newtwork