WEBVTT - Pamela Paul: Raising a Reader + Beauty in Boredom 0:00:00.480 --> 0:00:03.280 Welcome to Katie's Crib, a production of My Heart Radio 0:00:03.360 --> 0:00:13.560 and Shonda land Audio. Welcome back to Katie's Crib, you guys. 0:00:13.560 --> 0:00:16.520 I'm Katie Lows, and today we are tackling a topic 0:00:16.640 --> 0:00:20.480 at the forefront of my mind with a mother who 0:00:20.480 --> 0:00:23.480 wrote the book on it, author of How to Raise 0:00:23.520 --> 0:00:25.720 a Reader. She's the editor of the New York Times 0:00:25.720 --> 0:00:28.720 Book Review and the host of their book review weekly podcast. 0:00:29.120 --> 0:00:34.559 Please welcome the one and only Pamela Paul Pamela. Thank 0:00:34.600 --> 0:00:36.640 you so much for going. I like, wait first, do 0:00:36.680 --> 0:00:40.479 you go by pam or Pamela Pamela. I'm a Pamela Great. 0:00:40.680 --> 0:00:44.880 I love that. Okay, so Pamela, A little bit of backstory. UM, 0:00:45.000 --> 0:00:47.240 my mother in law, who I'm very close with, came 0:00:47.280 --> 0:00:49.240 to visit and she had cut out a New York 0:00:49.240 --> 0:00:52.360 Times article and placed it on my desk should I 0:00:52.440 --> 0:00:55.360 so happen to see it? And the article was how 0:00:55.400 --> 0:00:59.080 to Raise a Reader, which became your book. My mother 0:00:59.120 --> 0:01:01.480 in law is an avid reader. I am as well. 0:01:01.560 --> 0:01:04.240 My husband, who's her son, is not. I think we've 0:01:04.240 --> 0:01:07.080 been together thirteen years and I I think I've maybe 0:01:07.080 --> 0:01:13.080 seen him read one or two books maybe and probably Um, 0:01:13.120 --> 0:01:17.080 I think one was on back pain because he has 0:01:17.120 --> 0:01:21.559 a bad back, and then um one was I think 0:01:21.800 --> 0:01:24.320 Headache of the pelvis because he was also having pelvic 0:01:24.360 --> 0:01:27.520 floor problems. So, um, those are the only two books 0:01:27.520 --> 0:01:29.440 I've seen him read. He's an avid reader of his 0:01:29.520 --> 0:01:33.039 phone and the news and things like that, but he 0:01:33.200 --> 0:01:37.560 has never read a book for enjoyment. And um, we 0:01:37.600 --> 0:01:39.959 have a two and a half year old son, and 0:01:40.080 --> 0:01:44.000 I I just your article really really spoke to me, 0:01:44.040 --> 0:01:47.080 and your work really speaks to me. And I I'm 0:01:47.080 --> 0:01:50.600 a New Yorker, so I'm a warrior, and I am 0:01:50.640 --> 0:01:53.720 already worried about how to raise a reader. And I 0:01:53.920 --> 0:01:56.160 was like, well, I gotta have Pamela on this podcast 0:01:56.200 --> 0:01:59.480 because I got some questions for her. Um, So first, 0:01:59.480 --> 0:02:01.720 why don't you tell me a little bit about yourself 0:02:01.760 --> 0:02:04.960 and how many words per minute you read? All right, well, 0:02:05.120 --> 0:02:06.720 let's start off with the fact that I am also 0:02:06.800 --> 0:02:10.240 a warrior. Um. The book that I wrote immediately before this, 0:02:10.400 --> 0:02:13.840 My Life with Bob Flawed Heroin Seeks Book of Books. 0:02:14.200 --> 0:02:18.640 Plot ensues. The first paragraph is actually about everything that 0:02:18.680 --> 0:02:20.760 I worry about at night, and that if I can't 0:02:20.800 --> 0:02:23.359 find something, you know, if I don't have something sort 0:02:23.360 --> 0:02:25.240 of in the queue to worry about, I will find it. 0:02:25.360 --> 0:02:28.160 So we are on the same page there um and 0:02:28.280 --> 0:02:30.720 on the same page in terms of being readers. But 0:02:30.919 --> 0:02:36.120 maybe you will be also like me, a slow reader, 0:02:36.200 --> 0:02:39.720 so words per minute like that kind of thing terrifies me, 0:02:40.040 --> 0:02:46.560 or pages per minute. I'm actually hugely slow and distractable reader. 0:02:47.000 --> 0:02:51.519 So I know, I know it's a huge defect in 0:02:51.600 --> 0:02:55.000 my line of work. And I also forget everything that 0:02:55.080 --> 0:02:58.200 I read. Um, So you know I said, I don't forget, 0:02:58.240 --> 0:03:00.320 for example, when I meet someone, I Joe that I 0:03:00.320 --> 0:03:03.080 should have worked at like E Entertainment Television, because I 0:03:03.120 --> 0:03:06.360 remember exactly when I meet someone in the circumstances, but 0:03:06.440 --> 0:03:09.040 I do not remember what I read. The nice part 0:03:09.040 --> 0:03:11.919 of that is that rereading is like when I do 0:03:11.960 --> 0:03:14.360 it a total pleasure because it's like I'm enjoying it 0:03:14.400 --> 0:03:16.880 for the first time. Does it seem at all? I 0:03:16.960 --> 0:03:19.320 have that too, where i'll read a book, I'll start 0:03:19.360 --> 0:03:22.000 something and I'll be like, I've been here before and 0:03:22.040 --> 0:03:24.400 I've been like, oh my god, i feel like I've 0:03:24.440 --> 0:03:26.840 totally read this, but I'm not one percent sure, so 0:03:26.880 --> 0:03:29.480 I'll just keep going. Yes, I you know, it's funny. 0:03:29.520 --> 0:03:31.720 I the same thing happens with movies. And I remember 0:03:31.760 --> 0:03:35.800 once being at Lincoln Plaza cinema now closed, but you'll remember, 0:03:35.800 --> 0:03:38.400 as a fellow New Yorker, um the Great Upper West 0:03:38.440 --> 0:03:42.200 Side Our Pass Cinema and sitting there and watching a 0:03:42.240 --> 0:03:46.880 French movie and thinking, why does every French movie about 0:03:46.880 --> 0:03:50.320 the French Resistance have to start Julie Epinosh and Daniel 0:03:50.320 --> 0:03:53.320 O'ti And why must it always start with a nighttime 0:03:53.400 --> 0:03:57.200 scene of them bombing a train track? And it only 0:03:57.280 --> 0:03:59.680 you know. I was about thirty minutes into the movie 0:03:59.680 --> 0:04:02.840 before I realized I saw this movie. I saw this 0:04:02.880 --> 0:04:04.800 movie when it first came out in France like three 0:04:04.880 --> 0:04:08.920 years earlier. UM, but I stayed so I can. I 0:04:08.960 --> 0:04:10.880 can enjoy it for the for the second time. It 0:04:10.920 --> 0:04:14.040 does become vaguely um familiar. But one interesting thing I 0:04:14.080 --> 0:04:18.760 think about reading is that every time you reread a book, 0:04:19.440 --> 0:04:22.640 you're at a different place in your own life, and 0:04:22.680 --> 0:04:26.240 your perspective has changed and what's going on around you 0:04:26.360 --> 0:04:30.400 has changed, and so every reading experience is different from 0:04:30.440 --> 0:04:34.000 the previous one. And I bear that in mind, especially 0:04:34.440 --> 0:04:37.240 when you think about raising children who are readers, and 0:04:37.279 --> 0:04:40.520 if your son alb is um. We're about three years old. 0:04:40.680 --> 0:04:45.080 He's probably asking again again again for the same I 0:04:45.279 --> 0:04:48.200 hide them and is that bad? I literally can't today 0:04:48.600 --> 0:04:51.800 Thomas and friends. I was like, I was honest. I said, 0:04:51.880 --> 0:04:54.159 you know what, I'll be mommy's board of this book. 0:04:54.160 --> 0:04:55.960 I'm just going to give it a rest for today. 0:04:56.040 --> 0:04:58.560 We can come back to it tomorrow. But I can't 0:04:58.600 --> 0:05:02.279 do this again. Well, it's it's interesting. So there are 0:05:02.279 --> 0:05:04.800 a couple of things that kids get from rereading. One 0:05:04.960 --> 0:05:07.400 is if you think about yourself and if you read 0:05:07.440 --> 0:05:09.600 a book, like let's say you read a book in 0:05:09.640 --> 0:05:11.440 your twenties, and I'm going to give it an example 0:05:11.680 --> 0:05:14.360 that maybe not everyone has read, but it's a good example. 0:05:14.440 --> 0:05:18.159 Anna Karenina by Tolstoy. That's a book that we I 0:05:18.160 --> 0:05:21.159 think we all know about an adulterous woman. If you 0:05:21.240 --> 0:05:24.120 read that in your twenties, right, and you're single, you 0:05:24.200 --> 0:05:27.160 think this is so romantic. Anna has met the love 0:05:27.200 --> 0:05:29.520 of her life. This is amazing, I mean until we 0:05:29.560 --> 0:05:32.320 get to the sorry spoiler alert, but suicide at the end. 0:05:32.839 --> 0:05:35.600 And it's a love story. But if you read it 0:05:35.640 --> 0:05:38.640 when you're in your thirties, say, and you are newly 0:05:38.720 --> 0:05:41.200 married and you're very happy and maybe you have a child. 0:05:41.360 --> 0:05:45.760 You think she's terrible. Yeah, what a nightmare, Like a nightmare. 0:05:46.240 --> 0:05:49.680 She has abandoned her child and her husband. What kind 0:05:49.680 --> 0:05:52.520 of mother? What kind of woman? And then though, if 0:05:52.520 --> 0:05:54.280 you read it again and like your forties or your 0:05:54.279 --> 0:05:56.560 fifties or your sixties, you're like, nah, I kind of 0:05:56.560 --> 0:05:59.320 get it, like she needed to. You know, she was 0:05:59.360 --> 0:06:01.440 having like life is long, and she was having a 0:06:01.440 --> 0:06:04.320 different experience. I guess I can sort of relate because 0:06:04.560 --> 0:06:07.599 we do as actors, like I like to see the 0:06:07.680 --> 0:06:10.040 same plays over and over again, you know, like I'll 0:06:10.120 --> 0:06:12.400 run to see Who's afraid of Virginia Woolf? You know 0:06:13.000 --> 0:06:14.960 X amount of times, although I guess it's to see 0:06:15.000 --> 0:06:17.560 somebody perform it. But I'm also always in a different 0:06:17.560 --> 0:06:19.320 place in my life, and I pick up new and 0:06:19.400 --> 0:06:22.880 different things and understand them differently. And so with kids, 0:06:23.279 --> 0:06:27.360 they're changing and developing so quickly that if a four 0:06:27.440 --> 0:06:30.640 year old reads a book and then even two months 0:06:30.720 --> 0:06:34.120 later once it read again, they're a different person by 0:06:34.160 --> 0:06:38.280 that time. They're different interesting, and as they get older 0:06:38.600 --> 0:06:41.440 this is even more the case because like let's use 0:06:41.480 --> 0:06:44.160 Harry Potter as an example that everyone is familiar with 0:06:44.520 --> 0:06:46.599 if you read Harry Potter as some kids you know, 0:06:46.760 --> 0:06:49.120 do sort of precociously or have it read to them 0:06:49.400 --> 0:06:52.640 when they're in third or fourth grade, all that stuff 0:06:52.720 --> 0:06:56.240 about Cedric dying. Again, Sorry if I'm giving away plot 0:06:56.240 --> 0:06:58.440 points here, Come on, people, get with it. Read all 0:06:58.440 --> 0:07:00.600 the freaking Harry Potters it was. That was a decade 0:07:00.760 --> 0:07:02.320 or more than that. Oh my god, I don't even know. 0:07:02.360 --> 0:07:04.320 No spoilers, go for it, all right. So at the 0:07:04.400 --> 0:07:07.960 end of book, for um Cedric who is a lovable character, 0:07:08.240 --> 0:07:11.560 um side character, but nonetheless he did nothing wrong. He's 0:07:11.560 --> 0:07:14.440 a good kid, and he dies. So for a lot 0:07:14.480 --> 0:07:16.840 of kids, at a certain point, they're too young, and 0:07:16.880 --> 0:07:20.560 they might not process it. Um. At a slightly older age, 0:07:20.600 --> 0:07:22.680 they might be like that's terrible, and like that's not 0:07:23.040 --> 0:07:25.840 you know, kids often see things in very black and 0:07:25.840 --> 0:07:29.360 white terms. They be like, how can a good person die? 0:07:29.400 --> 0:07:32.160 That's not okay. And then as they get even older, 0:07:32.560 --> 0:07:35.360 they might be genuinely upset by it at an emotional 0:07:35.480 --> 0:07:38.240 level because maybe they're that age. And then when they 0:07:38.280 --> 0:07:41.080 get even older, they might appreciate it as a reader, 0:07:41.160 --> 0:07:43.560 as a literary device, they might be like Oh, that's 0:07:43.560 --> 0:07:47.680 so interesting. So he dies and that's when the novels 0:07:48.040 --> 0:07:51.720 J K. Rowling's seven Harry Potter novels shift from being 0:07:51.760 --> 0:07:55.160 books for children into being books for teenagers, which is 0:07:55.360 --> 0:07:57.800 what happens in books five, six, and seven. They become 0:07:57.800 --> 0:08:00.120 books for teenagers. Um, and of course grown up like 0:08:00.160 --> 0:08:02.559 them too, but little kids. A lot of this stuff 0:08:02.560 --> 0:08:05.720 that happens in those later books, it's teenage stuff because J. K. 0:08:05.960 --> 0:08:09.680 Rolling had the book's age and the character's age along 0:08:09.680 --> 0:08:12.240 with her readers, so that the people who originally joined 0:08:12.240 --> 0:08:15.080 in would sort of constantly feel like it was about 0:08:15.200 --> 0:08:17.440 them and like a little kid, you know, they're not 0:08:17.480 --> 0:08:20.360 gonna the love story and like the kind of middle 0:08:20.400 --> 0:08:23.200 school antics that happened between the characters where people aren't 0:08:23.200 --> 0:08:25.120 talking to one another, like that's kind of just kind 0:08:25.120 --> 0:08:28.560 of glide over them. But for the reader who's eleven, 0:08:28.640 --> 0:08:31.160 twelve years old, that completely hits them where they're. Yeah, 0:08:31.160 --> 0:08:34.040 it's right where they are. What about when we're at 0:08:34.080 --> 0:08:38.640 this new phase right now where um, he just learned 0:08:39.000 --> 0:08:42.200 that things scare him. Um, it's like new in the 0:08:42.200 --> 0:08:44.320 past couple of weeks. So now there's just a lot 0:08:44.320 --> 0:08:48.559 of requests to skip certain pages or you know, like, oh, 0:08:48.640 --> 0:08:50.880 just make sure you don't do the rocket thing. That's 0:08:50.880 --> 0:08:53.080 too even though the page just has rockets on it, 0:08:53.120 --> 0:08:54.600 He's like, no, that's too loud. I don't want to 0:08:54.600 --> 0:08:56.160 read that page. And like, I got it. We're not 0:08:56.160 --> 0:08:57.720 going to read that page. Was giving it, you know, 0:08:57.880 --> 0:09:01.760 or he'll he'll wake up. Sometimes there's a kid's book 0:09:01.760 --> 0:09:05.840 called the Gruffalo or oh things that have monsters or 0:09:05.880 --> 0:09:09.520 dinosaurs me to love. But like he was so into 0:09:09.559 --> 0:09:11.160 it for a week and then the next week he 0:09:11.240 --> 0:09:12.920 was like, it's too scary, and I said, okay, it's 0:09:12.920 --> 0:09:14.559 too scary. You know. He had a night where he 0:09:14.600 --> 0:09:16.360 went to sleep in. An hour later he woke up 0:09:16.360 --> 0:09:19.520 and he said, Mom, I'm scared of the Gruffalo. Um. 0:09:19.559 --> 0:09:22.800 And I feel like these are all new emotions. Similarly, 0:09:22.880 --> 0:09:26.560 I was in nanny Forum like ten years before I 0:09:26.600 --> 0:09:29.880 was able to just be an actor, and I remember 0:09:30.360 --> 0:09:32.000 kind of on the flip side, I remember some of 0:09:32.040 --> 0:09:34.840 my older kids really getting obsessed with like very dark, 0:09:34.960 --> 0:09:39.400 dark books, um, things about death and and things that 0:09:39.480 --> 0:09:41.960 and really leaning into that. Is there ever a time 0:09:42.000 --> 0:09:46.240 where you like, kids shouldn't be reading stuff like shouldn't 0:09:46.280 --> 0:09:48.920 be I don't know. I mean, I guess it's the 0:09:48.960 --> 0:09:50.679 same with movies, or maybe it's not. I don't know. 0:09:50.760 --> 0:09:54.760 This is your imagination, which is awesome. But um, I 0:09:54.800 --> 0:09:57.520 was reading something from your book My Life with Bob, 0:09:57.760 --> 0:09:59.600 which you brought up, and it said, like many other 0:09:59.640 --> 0:10:02.600 morbid kids with Jewish ancestry, I was drawn to Holocaust 0:10:02.720 --> 0:10:05.440 reading from the moment I asked the lessons seeking out 0:10:05.480 --> 0:10:09.360 death and torture and deprivation and evil, which I totally get. Um, Now, 0:10:09.400 --> 0:10:12.120 my kid's not there, he's afraid and just doesn't want 0:10:12.120 --> 0:10:15.480 to process it. But is there is that right to 0:10:15.480 --> 0:10:18.880 to just follow his rules? A And then the second 0:10:18.920 --> 0:10:22.679 question in that is is there things that kids shouldn't 0:10:22.720 --> 0:10:26.280 be reading? Oh? These are two really great questions and 0:10:26.320 --> 0:10:29.920 big questions. Um. And I want to say that it 0:10:30.000 --> 0:10:32.840 obviously had training as a nanny in parenthood, which is 0:10:32.920 --> 0:10:36.800 very good because you know, it sounds like you should 0:10:37.080 --> 0:10:38.880 what you're doing, what you should be doing, which is 0:10:38.960 --> 0:10:41.920 let your child take the lead. And that applies to 0:10:42.200 --> 0:10:46.760 you know, skipping over pages, slowing down, sadly often reading 0:10:46.800 --> 0:10:49.559 a book for the twenty time. And I'm going to 0:10:49.679 --> 0:10:51.800 note that and tell my husband that today that Thomas 0:10:51.840 --> 0:10:54.720 and Friends is back on the pile. Yes, I know, 0:10:54.800 --> 0:10:57.120 it's it's, it's it's There are some books that are 0:10:57.160 --> 0:10:59.640 so terribly boring to have to reread. For us, it 0:10:59.720 --> 0:11:02.880 was the skip books that are just unbearable, and if 0:11:02.880 --> 0:11:04.880 you're not familiar with them, you can just put that 0:11:04.920 --> 0:11:07.640 on your do not go list. Um. And we don't 0:11:07.679 --> 0:11:10.319 have those unless you like to say wolf Wolf like 0:11:10.440 --> 0:11:13.840 ten times in this space of thirty two pages. Um. 0:11:14.040 --> 0:11:18.959 But reading it repeatedly to your child does actually have um, 0:11:19.360 --> 0:11:24.000 really good pedagogical um sort of. It has an impact 0:11:24.120 --> 0:11:26.679 in that your kids are starting to memorize it, they're 0:11:26.720 --> 0:11:29.280 becoming familiar with it, they're learning in a way to read, 0:11:29.360 --> 0:11:32.319 and that in that they're beginning to recognize the world. 0:11:32.679 --> 0:11:34.559 They know the story by heart, and then they can 0:11:34.640 --> 0:11:37.600 quote unquote read it to themselves, which is very like, 0:11:38.080 --> 0:11:40.520 it's amazing to see he's like memorized. I can't believe it. 0:11:40.520 --> 0:11:43.040 It's crazy, he says, the book pages before I get there. 0:11:43.640 --> 0:11:46.960 Yeah and so. And as part of that taking the lead, 0:11:47.080 --> 0:11:49.800 if they are scared of something, it's definitely a good 0:11:49.840 --> 0:11:52.559 idea to skip over it, because like we're not instructors, 0:11:52.800 --> 0:11:55.679 we're not teaching our child how to read. We're teaching 0:11:55.720 --> 0:11:58.640 them to love to read. That's our job as parents. 0:11:58.840 --> 0:12:02.520 And so why would you was your child through something 0:12:02.559 --> 0:12:04.640 that is not pleasurable to them or just bringing up 0:12:04.679 --> 0:12:06.720 negative emotions. So you definitely want to let them go 0:12:06.840 --> 0:12:10.440 pass those scary passages. And perhaps because you're an actor, 0:12:10.800 --> 0:12:13.120 you'll fall into a trap that I too fell into, 0:12:13.200 --> 0:12:16.160 even though I can't act at all, which is sometimes 0:12:16.200 --> 0:12:20.520 you get very caught up in your own experience. That's right, 0:12:21.360 --> 0:12:25.520 you mean my performance of the Gruffalo. Sure, exactly what 0:12:25.559 --> 0:12:29.360 you're saying. Right, You've got voices for all those characters, right, 0:12:29.480 --> 0:12:32.720 Like the snake has its own little hissing thing. For sure. 0:12:32.760 --> 0:12:35.640 You got me nailed, okay, And so it's kind of 0:12:35.720 --> 0:12:37.880 upsetting when your child would be like, I don't like 0:12:37.960 --> 0:12:40.200 the ogre voice, or like could you stop it with 0:12:40.240 --> 0:12:44.000 a hissing um. There were certain books that I liked 0:12:44.080 --> 0:12:47.000 to sing rather than read aloud, and I also can't sing, 0:12:47.360 --> 0:12:49.480 and my kids let it be known after a while 0:12:49.559 --> 0:12:52.240 that like, actually, could you just read that and not 0:12:52.400 --> 0:12:54.240 sing it? You don't have to make up a little 0:12:54.280 --> 0:12:58.520 tune for bread and Jam with Francis for Francis and so, um, 0:12:58.520 --> 0:13:00.199 it's that that kind of stuff you have to let 0:13:00.200 --> 0:13:02.360 go of as a parent and really handed to your kids. 0:13:02.600 --> 0:13:05.600 And I think the same thing goes with your second question, UM, 0:13:05.600 --> 0:13:08.400 which is there's a lot to that question about you know, 0:13:08.440 --> 0:13:12.320 when is your child so too young to read something scary? Um. 0:13:12.880 --> 0:13:17.000 I believe firmly that one, kids kind of know what 0:13:17.000 --> 0:13:20.240 they're ready for and what they're not ready for. And 0:13:20.320 --> 0:13:24.560 also kids are like kids will put things down, and 0:13:24.600 --> 0:13:27.240 they also will choose to see certain things. That goes 0:13:27.280 --> 0:13:29.240 back to what I was saying about Harry Potter. You know, 0:13:29.320 --> 0:13:31.280 like if you think back to some of the things 0:13:31.320 --> 0:13:33.880 that you movies, you saw books you read as a child, 0:13:33.880 --> 0:13:36.040 and you didn't quite get it, and then you see 0:13:36.040 --> 0:13:37.520 it again as a growing up and you're like, oh 0:13:37.559 --> 0:13:41.120 my god. You know, like I had no idea. Um, 0:13:41.160 --> 0:13:43.320 I'm a little bit older than you. And when I 0:13:43.360 --> 0:13:46.320 was growing up in the seventies and eighties, you know, 0:13:46.360 --> 0:13:49.360 parents weren't as as protective or cautious about material, and 0:13:49.360 --> 0:13:51.240 there wasn't as much that was directly made for kids. 0:13:51.280 --> 0:13:53.760 They'd be like, sure, let's all go see terms of 0:13:53.880 --> 0:13:56.600 endearment or you know, let's go to watership down where 0:13:56.600 --> 0:13:59.880 there are bloody bunnies, you know, dying on fields and 0:14:00.440 --> 0:14:03.160 everything sort of you know, if it wasn't our sort 0:14:03.200 --> 0:14:06.199 of seem like maybe it was okay. A lot of 0:14:06.240 --> 0:14:09.280 the times I didn't absorb that stuff. I mean I 0:14:09.320 --> 0:14:12.000 remember seeing terms of endearment, for example, with my mother, 0:14:12.080 --> 0:14:14.920 and she came out sobbing and was so apologetic, and 0:14:14.960 --> 0:14:16.679 I was like, I don't know what the problem is. 0:14:16.880 --> 0:14:18.679 Of course I saw it as an adult and I 0:14:18.720 --> 0:14:23.240 was weeping. Um, but kids don't necessarily see or absorb 0:14:23.280 --> 0:14:26.080 all that, and some kids are drawn to it and 0:14:26.160 --> 0:14:29.640 some very much are not. And one of the fascinating 0:14:29.640 --> 0:14:32.200 things I find about, you know, viewing your child as 0:14:32.200 --> 0:14:35.080 a reader, as you really have this different lens into 0:14:35.160 --> 0:14:38.360 their inner life because you find out things that you 0:14:38.400 --> 0:14:41.720 wouldn't necessarily know. Like one of my three kids, um 0:14:42.040 --> 0:14:45.360 doesn't like sad stories? Does actually now two of them 0:14:45.360 --> 0:14:48.760 don't like sad stories. I love crying when I read. 0:14:48.880 --> 0:14:51.040 I love it so much, like if it if it 0:14:51.160 --> 0:14:55.040 breaks me down, I'm like, this is the best book. Um. 0:14:55.080 --> 0:15:00.200 My kids really don't like that, and so they will 0:15:00.320 --> 0:15:02.920 shut the book. They'll ask not to get a book 0:15:02.960 --> 0:15:05.320 about a dying squirrel again or about like a you know, 0:15:05.440 --> 0:15:08.840 disabled box. Um. And you know, and then there were 0:15:08.880 --> 0:15:11.120 kids that really really want that and seek that out, 0:15:11.360 --> 0:15:14.040 especially when they get to you know, the teenage years. 0:15:15.000 --> 0:15:18.040 That's great. So really we're letting them take the lead. 0:15:18.200 --> 0:15:21.640 Were you a huge reader as a kid? Um? I 0:15:21.680 --> 0:15:25.200 definitely was a huge reader as a kid. I um 0:15:25.240 --> 0:15:28.040 I felt like things were better in books than they 0:15:28.040 --> 0:15:30.600 were in real life. Um I. It wasn't that I 0:15:30.640 --> 0:15:32.960 was a hugely unhappy child. I grew up with though, 0:15:33.040 --> 0:15:35.560 with seven brothers. And some people will hear that, and 0:15:35.560 --> 0:15:37.440 they but like, you must have been so spoiled and 0:15:37.480 --> 0:15:39.840 so cherished, and it's like no, I was, you know, 0:15:39.960 --> 0:15:44.200 got the crappy eaten out of me. Like anything anything 0:15:44.280 --> 0:15:46.840 that was yeh, anything that was like remotely girlish was 0:15:46.880 --> 0:15:50.480 like really not cool. Um And also it um I 0:15:50.560 --> 0:15:53.000 often had a situation where they would get paired off 0:15:53.280 --> 0:15:55.720 and I would be alone. So girlhood was sort of 0:15:55.720 --> 0:15:58.880 seen as a negative thing. I was also really shy, 0:15:59.040 --> 0:16:02.600 and I had no ills or talents whatsoever. So you know, 0:16:02.640 --> 0:16:05.960 other kids might go and have you know, violin lessons, 0:16:06.160 --> 0:16:10.560 or play soccer or do gymnastics and I was really, 0:16:11.080 --> 0:16:14.520 um unskilled at all of those things, and so for me, 0:16:15.080 --> 0:16:18.040 the default was always to read in books because things 0:16:18.080 --> 0:16:20.440 felt better in there. Um. You know, there were sisters 0:16:20.440 --> 0:16:23.200 in books and everybody got along, and you know, parents 0:16:23.240 --> 0:16:26.120 made like homemade meals that weren't you know, steam broccoli 0:16:26.120 --> 0:16:28.600 and baked potatoes, and just like all these great things 0:16:28.680 --> 0:16:31.040 would happen in books. Or you could you know, be 0:16:31.800 --> 0:16:36.120 heroin like Meg Murray and A Wrinkle in Time. Yeah, 0:16:36.560 --> 0:16:40.160 did your um? Were your parents very like you said? 0:16:40.160 --> 0:16:42.480 They really were? They just leaving you alone and so 0:16:42.560 --> 0:16:44.960 you were able to read whatever you so chose. Or 0:16:45.120 --> 0:16:48.200 were they encouraging of the topics and things that you 0:16:48.200 --> 0:16:50.200 were interested in? Well, you know, I grew up in 0:16:50.200 --> 0:16:53.440 the great era of underparenting. You know, it's like take 0:16:53.520 --> 0:16:56.720 benign to collect and like and multiply it. So a 0:16:56.720 --> 0:16:58.960 lot of the time they weren't all too aware. But 0:16:59.040 --> 0:17:01.200 I was also a very good kid, even though I'd 0:17:01.200 --> 0:17:04.080 like to read about dark things. And I remember, um, 0:17:04.119 --> 0:17:06.680 I remember one time going and getting a book. Um, 0:17:06.720 --> 0:17:09.479 and now I was probably ten years old, and I, 0:17:09.560 --> 0:17:11.200 you know, would pick things out because of the cover. 0:17:11.280 --> 0:17:14.119 I didn't know what I was doing, and I realized 0:17:14.200 --> 0:17:15.760 as I got into it that it was a lesbian 0:17:15.800 --> 0:17:19.320 love story and fairly explicit, and I actually turned it in. 0:17:19.560 --> 0:17:21.680 I was like, I don't think this is appropriate for me. 0:17:22.480 --> 0:17:24.880 You're such a goody two shoes. I'm obsessed by the way. 0:17:24.880 --> 0:17:27.400 I can only call that because I would have done 0:17:27.400 --> 0:17:32.720 the exact same. Although then fast forward about a year later, 0:17:33.320 --> 0:17:36.520 I was reading um, Bob Woodward's Wired, which was the 0:17:36.640 --> 0:17:39.120 John Belushi story, and you know, I think my mom 0:17:39.200 --> 0:17:43.439 saw it and that like confiscated it. Yeah, that should 0:17:43.440 --> 0:17:46.439 not that's not that's that's a lot. Yeah, I was. 0:17:46.520 --> 0:17:50.040 I think I was eleven. Oh my god. Yeah, she 0:17:50.160 --> 0:17:59.920 was like, you're not reading about a harmonatic. I meant 0:18:00.080 --> 0:18:02.280 this already, but so I'm a reader, Adam is not. 0:18:02.480 --> 0:18:04.159 Are there any I'm not sure how it is in 0:18:04.160 --> 0:18:06.359 your household, but are there any tips on how to 0:18:06.520 --> 0:18:10.840 encourage partners to cross over the reading rainbow? So to speak? 0:18:10.920 --> 0:18:16.560 I mean, I feel, I mean, we have you talked about, 0:18:16.600 --> 0:18:20.320 like reading right now. In our son's life is very ritualistic. 0:18:20.440 --> 0:18:23.400 It's what he does first thing in the morning, um, 0:18:23.440 --> 0:18:25.480 when he wakes up, and you know, it's a good 0:18:25.480 --> 0:18:28.040 thirty forty minutes and it's what he does before bed 0:18:28.200 --> 0:18:30.560 and and he demands it, you know what I mean, 0:18:30.640 --> 0:18:32.240 He's like, is it time to read books now? Like 0:18:32.280 --> 0:18:34.960 it's a it's a real thing. And I actually took 0:18:35.000 --> 0:18:38.800 this idea from Carrie Washington, but I didn't need I 0:18:38.840 --> 0:18:42.240 was one of the many perks of being an actor 0:18:42.359 --> 0:18:44.560 is for some reason, when you get pregnant and have 0:18:44.600 --> 0:18:46.439 a baby, they send you a ton of free stuff, 0:18:46.520 --> 0:18:49.480 which I then give to all of my other actor 0:18:49.600 --> 0:18:52.280 friends or my siblings or whatever. But I didn't need 0:18:52.400 --> 0:18:55.280 anything for my baby shower, so I just asked everyone 0:18:55.320 --> 0:19:01.000 to please bring their favorite children's book and it was awesome. Um, 0:19:01.040 --> 0:19:02.959 And not to say, most of your mom is out 0:19:03.000 --> 0:19:05.479 there listening, register for whatever the hell you need, because 0:19:05.600 --> 0:19:07.840 it's the opportunity, and you spend a lot of time 0:19:07.880 --> 0:19:09.919 getting other people stuff, so make the most of it. 0:19:10.000 --> 0:19:13.840 But for me, the a great idea. I didn't need stuff. 0:19:13.920 --> 0:19:15.320 Or if your mom out there who's had a ton 0:19:15.359 --> 0:19:16.760 of hand me downs and you don't need stuff, I 0:19:16.960 --> 0:19:19.920 have to say, like getting a children's book from each 0:19:19.920 --> 0:19:22.919 friend and having each person right in that it was 0:19:22.960 --> 0:19:26.000 from them is so great because not only does my 0:19:26.080 --> 0:19:30.160 son have this awesome library right now, and people were 0:19:30.160 --> 0:19:33.000 really cool. They gave books that were for all different ages. 0:19:33.040 --> 0:19:34.760 But then they also, you know, they when he Albi 0:19:34.840 --> 0:19:36.399 knows now when he opens the book, like, oh, this 0:19:36.400 --> 0:19:39.040 one's from Carry or this one's from aunt Tera. So 0:19:39.080 --> 0:19:42.639 we have a really good um base right now. And 0:19:42.640 --> 0:19:45.040 again we read morning and night and my husband's really 0:19:45.080 --> 0:19:47.760 taken to it, which was great, Like he reads a 0:19:47.760 --> 0:19:49.960 lot because my husband is not a reader, but he's 0:19:49.960 --> 0:19:52.040 only two and a half. How do we keep this up? 0:19:52.080 --> 0:19:55.359 How do my husband and I keep encouraging reading in 0:19:55.400 --> 0:19:57.520 our son? All right, I have a lot to say 0:19:57.520 --> 0:20:00.440 about this, but one thing I will say I think 0:20:00.560 --> 0:20:04.720 might influence your husband if he is prone to is 0:20:04.760 --> 0:20:08.520 he if he's easily influenced by research and by data. 0:20:08.880 --> 0:20:11.280 Here are a few facts that you can arm yourself with. 0:20:11.520 --> 0:20:16.280 One is that we know that modeling reading behavior is 0:20:16.400 --> 0:20:19.800 hugely influential. If you want to raise a reader, be 0:20:19.920 --> 0:20:23.720 a reader. Your kids should see you reading for pleasure. 0:20:24.040 --> 0:20:26.480 They should hear you talking about the books that you love, 0:20:26.960 --> 0:20:28.919 so that books are not just seen as something for 0:20:29.000 --> 0:20:32.119