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Speaker 1: Welcome to Katie's Crib, a production of My Heart Radio

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Speaker 1: and Shonda land Audio. Welcome back to Katie's Crib, you guys.

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Speaker 1: I'm Katie Lows, and today we are tackling a topic

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Speaker 1: at the forefront of my mind with a mother who

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Speaker 1: wrote the book on it, author of How to Raise

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Speaker 1: a Reader. She's the editor of the New York Times

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Speaker 1: Book Review and the host of their book review weekly podcast.

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Speaker 1: Please welcome the one and only Pamela Paul Pamela. Thank

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Speaker 1: you so much for going. I like, wait first, do

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Speaker 1: you go by pam or Pamela Pamela. I'm a Pamela Great.

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Speaker 1: I love that. Okay, so Pamela, A little bit of backstory. UM,

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Speaker 1: my mother in law, who I'm very close with, came

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Speaker 1: to visit and she had cut out a New York

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Speaker 1: Times article and placed it on my desk should I

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Speaker 1: so happen to see it? And the article was how

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Speaker 1: to Raise a Reader, which became your book. My mother

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Speaker 1: in law is an avid reader. I am as well.

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Speaker 1: My husband, who's her son, is not. I think we've

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Speaker 1: been together thirteen years and I I think I've maybe

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Speaker 1: seen him read one or two books maybe and probably Um,

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Speaker 1: I think one was on back pain because he has

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Speaker 1: a bad back, and then um one was I think

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Speaker 1: Headache of the pelvis because he was also having pelvic

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Speaker 1: floor problems. So, um, those are the only two books

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Speaker 1: I've seen him read. He's an avid reader of his

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Speaker 1: phone and the news and things like that, but he

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Speaker 1: has never read a book for enjoyment. And um, we

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Speaker 1: have a two and a half year old son, and

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Speaker 1: I I just your article really really spoke to me,

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Speaker 1: and your work really speaks to me. And I I'm

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Speaker 1: a New Yorker, so I'm a warrior, and I am

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Speaker 1: already worried about how to raise a reader. And I

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Speaker 1: was like, well, I gotta have Pamela on this podcast

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Speaker 1: because I got some questions for her. Um, So first,

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Speaker 1: why don't you tell me a little bit about yourself

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Speaker 1: and how many words per minute you read? All right, well,

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Speaker 1: let's start off with the fact that I am also

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Speaker 1: a warrior. Um. The book that I wrote immediately before this,

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Speaker 1: My Life with Bob Flawed Heroin Seeks Book of Books.

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Speaker 1: Plot ensues. The first paragraph is actually about everything that

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Speaker 1: I worry about at night, and that if I can't

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Speaker 1: find something, you know, if I don't have something sort

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Speaker 1: of in the queue to worry about, I will find it.

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Speaker 1: So we are on the same page there um and

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Speaker 1: on the same page in terms of being readers. But

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Speaker 1: maybe you will be also like me, a slow reader,

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Speaker 1: so words per minute like that kind of thing terrifies me,

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Speaker 1: or pages per minute. I'm actually hugely slow and distractable reader.

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Speaker 1: So I know, I know it's a huge defect in

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Speaker 1: my line of work. And I also forget everything that

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Speaker 1: I read. Um, So you know I said, I don't forget,

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Speaker 1: for example, when I meet someone, I Joe that I

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Speaker 1: should have worked at like E Entertainment Television, because I

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Speaker 1: remember exactly when I meet someone in the circumstances, but

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Speaker 1: I do not remember what I read. The nice part

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Speaker 1: of that is that rereading is like when I do

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Speaker 1: it a total pleasure because it's like I'm enjoying it

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Speaker 1: for the first time. Does it seem at all? I

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Speaker 1: have that too, where i'll read a book, I'll start

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Speaker 1: something and I'll be like, I've been here before and

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Speaker 1: I've been like, oh my god, i feel like I've

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Speaker 1: totally read this, but I'm not one percent sure, so

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Speaker 1: I'll just keep going. Yes, I you know, it's funny.

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Speaker 1: I the same thing happens with movies. And I remember

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Speaker 1: once being at Lincoln Plaza cinema now closed, but you'll remember,

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Speaker 1: as a fellow New Yorker, um the Great Upper West

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Speaker 1: Side Our Pass Cinema and sitting there and watching a

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Speaker 1: French movie and thinking, why does every French movie about

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Speaker 1: the French Resistance have to start Julie Epinosh and Daniel

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Speaker 1: O'ti And why must it always start with a nighttime

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Speaker 1: scene of them bombing a train track? And it only

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Speaker 1: you know. I was about thirty minutes into the movie

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Speaker 1: before I realized I saw this movie. I saw this

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Speaker 1: movie when it first came out in France like three

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Speaker 1: years earlier. UM, but I stayed so I can. I

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Speaker 1: can enjoy it for the for the second time. It

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Speaker 1: does become vaguely um familiar. But one interesting thing I

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Speaker 1: think about reading is that every time you reread a book,

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Speaker 1: you're at a different place in your own life, and

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Speaker 1: your perspective has changed and what's going on around you

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Speaker 1: has changed, and so every reading experience is different from

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Speaker 1: the previous one. And I bear that in mind, especially

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Speaker 1: when you think about raising children who are readers, and

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Speaker 1: if your son alb is um. We're about three years old.

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Speaker 1: He's probably asking again again again for the same I

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Speaker 1: hide them and is that bad? I literally can't today

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Speaker 1: Thomas and friends. I was like, I was honest. I said,

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Speaker 1: you know what, I'll be mommy's board of this book.

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Speaker 1: I'm just going to give it a rest for today.

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Speaker 1: We can come back to it tomorrow. But I can't

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Speaker 1: do this again. Well, it's it's interesting. So there are

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Speaker 1: a couple of things that kids get from rereading. One

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Speaker 1: is if you think about yourself and if you read

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Speaker 1: a book, like let's say you read a book in

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Speaker 1: your twenties, and I'm going to give it an example

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Speaker 1: that maybe not everyone has read, but it's a good example.

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Speaker 1: Anna Karenina by Tolstoy. That's a book that we I

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Speaker 1: think we all know about an adulterous woman. If you

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Speaker 1: read that in your twenties, right, and you're single, you

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Speaker 1: think this is so romantic. Anna has met the love

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Speaker 1: of her life. This is amazing, I mean until we

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Speaker 1: get to the sorry spoiler alert, but suicide at the end.

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Speaker 1: And it's a love story. But if you read it

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Speaker 1: when you're in your thirties, say, and you are newly

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Speaker 1: married and you're very happy and maybe you have a child.

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Speaker 1: You think she's terrible. Yeah, what a nightmare, Like a nightmare.

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Speaker 1: She has abandoned her child and her husband. What kind

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Speaker 1: of mother? What kind of woman? And then though, if

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Speaker 1: you read it again and like your forties or your

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Speaker 1: fifties or your sixties, you're like, nah, I kind of

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Speaker 1: get it, like she needed to. You know, she was

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Speaker 1: having like life is long, and she was having a

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Speaker 1: different experience. I guess I can sort of relate because

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Speaker 1: we do as actors, like I like to see the

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Speaker 1: same plays over and over again, you know, like I'll

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Speaker 1: run to see Who's afraid of Virginia Woolf? You know

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Speaker 1: X amount of times, although I guess it's to see

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Speaker 1: somebody perform it. But I'm also always in a different

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Speaker 1: place in my life, and I pick up new and

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Speaker 1: different things and understand them differently. And so with kids,

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Speaker 1: they're changing and developing so quickly that if a four

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Speaker 1: year old reads a book and then even two months

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Speaker 1: later once it read again, they're a different person by

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Speaker 1: that time. They're different interesting, and as they get older

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Speaker 1: this is even more the case because like let's use

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Speaker 1: Harry Potter as an example that everyone is familiar with

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Speaker 1: if you read Harry Potter as some kids you know,

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Speaker 1: do sort of precociously or have it read to them

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Speaker 1: when they're in third or fourth grade, all that stuff

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Speaker 1: about Cedric dying. Again, Sorry if I'm giving away plot

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Speaker 1: points here, Come on, people, get with it. Read all

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Speaker 1: the freaking Harry Potters it was. That was a decade

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Speaker 1: or more than that. Oh my god, I don't even know.

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Speaker 1: No spoilers, go for it, all right. So at the

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Speaker 1: end of book, for um Cedric who is a lovable character,

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Speaker 1: um side character, but nonetheless he did nothing wrong. He's

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Speaker 1: a good kid, and he dies. So for a lot

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Speaker 1: of kids, at a certain point, they're too young, and

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Speaker 1: they might not process it. Um. At a slightly older age,

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Speaker 1: they might be like that's terrible, and like that's not

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Speaker 1: you know, kids often see things in very black and

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Speaker 1: white terms. They be like, how can a good person die?

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Speaker 1: That's not okay. And then as they get even older,

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Speaker 1: they might be genuinely upset by it at an emotional

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Speaker 1: level because maybe they're that age. And then when they

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Speaker 1: get even older, they might appreciate it as a reader,

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Speaker 1: as a literary device, they might be like Oh, that's

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Speaker 1: so interesting. So he dies and that's when the novels

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Speaker 1: J K. Rowling's seven Harry Potter novels shift from being

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Speaker 1: books for children into being books for teenagers, which is

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Speaker 1: what happens in books five, six, and seven. They become

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Speaker 1: books for teenagers. Um, and of course grown up like

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Speaker 1: them too, but little kids. A lot of this stuff

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Speaker 1: that happens in those later books, it's teenage stuff because J. K.

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Speaker 1: Rolling had the book's age and the character's age along

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Speaker 1: with her readers, so that the people who originally joined

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Speaker 1: in would sort of constantly feel like it was about

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Speaker 1: them and like a little kid, you know, they're not

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Speaker 1: gonna the love story and like the kind of middle

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Speaker 1: school antics that happened between the characters where people aren't

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Speaker 1: talking to one another, like that's kind of just kind

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Speaker 1: of glide over them. But for the reader who's eleven,

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Speaker 1: twelve years old, that completely hits them where they're. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's right where they are. What about when we're at

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Speaker 1: this new phase right now where um, he just learned

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Speaker 1: that things scare him. Um, it's like new in the

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Speaker 1: past couple of weeks. So now there's just a lot

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Speaker 1: of requests to skip certain pages or you know, like, oh,

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Speaker 1: just make sure you don't do the rocket thing. That's

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Speaker 1: too even though the page just has rockets on it,

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Speaker 1: He's like, no, that's too loud. I don't want to

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Speaker 1: read that page. And like, I got it. We're not

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Speaker 1: going to read that page. Was giving it, you know,

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Speaker 1: or he'll he'll wake up. Sometimes there's a kid's book

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Speaker 1: called the Gruffalo or oh things that have monsters or

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Speaker 1: dinosaurs me to love. But like he was so into

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Speaker 1: it for a week and then the next week he

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Speaker 1: was like, it's too scary, and I said, okay, it's

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Speaker 1: too scary. You know. He had a night where he

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Speaker 1: went to sleep in. An hour later he woke up

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Speaker 1: and he said, Mom, I'm scared of the Gruffalo. Um.

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Speaker 1: And I feel like these are all new emotions. Similarly,

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Speaker 1: I was in nanny Forum like ten years before I

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Speaker 1: was able to just be an actor, and I remember

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Speaker 1: kind of on the flip side, I remember some of

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Speaker 1: my older kids really getting obsessed with like very dark,

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Speaker 1: dark books, um, things about death and and things that

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Speaker 1: and really leaning into that. Is there ever a time

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Speaker 1: where you like, kids shouldn't be reading stuff like shouldn't

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Speaker 1: be I don't know. I mean, I guess it's the

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Speaker 1: same with movies, or maybe it's not. I don't know.

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Speaker 1: This is your imagination, which is awesome. But um, I

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Speaker 1: was reading something from your book My Life with Bob,

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Speaker 1: which you brought up, and it said, like many other

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Speaker 1: morbid kids with Jewish ancestry, I was drawn to Holocaust

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Speaker 1: reading from the moment I asked the lessons seeking out

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Speaker 1: death and torture and deprivation and evil, which I totally get. Um, Now,

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Speaker 1: my kid's not there, he's afraid and just doesn't want

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Speaker 1: to process it. But is there is that right to

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Speaker 1: to just follow his rules? A And then the second

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Speaker 1: question in that is is there things that kids shouldn't

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Speaker 1: be reading? Oh? These are two really great questions and

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Speaker 1: big questions. Um. And I want to say that it

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Speaker 1: obviously had training as a nanny in parenthood, which is

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Speaker 1: very good because you know, it sounds like you should

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Speaker 1: what you're doing, what you should be doing, which is

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Speaker 1: let your child take the lead. And that applies to

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Speaker 1: you know, skipping over pages, slowing down, sadly often reading

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Speaker 1: a book for the twenty time. And I'm going to

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Speaker 1: note that and tell my husband that today that Thomas

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Speaker 1: and Friends is back on the pile. Yes, I know,

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Speaker 1: it's it's, it's it's There are some books that are

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Speaker 1: so terribly boring to have to reread. For us, it

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Speaker 1: was the skip books that are just unbearable, and if

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Speaker 1: you're not familiar with them, you can just put that

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Speaker 1: on your do not go list. Um. And we don't

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Speaker 1: have those unless you like to say wolf Wolf like

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Speaker 1: ten times in this space of thirty two pages. Um.

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Speaker 1: But reading it repeatedly to your child does actually have um,

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Speaker 1: really good pedagogical um sort of. It has an impact

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Speaker 1: in that your kids are starting to memorize it, they're

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Speaker 1: becoming familiar with it, they're learning in a way to read,

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Speaker 1: and that in that they're beginning to recognize the world.

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Speaker 1: They know the story by heart, and then they can

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Speaker 1: quote unquote read it to themselves, which is very like,

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Speaker 1: it's amazing to see he's like memorized. I can't believe it.

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Speaker 1: It's crazy, he says, the book pages before I get there.

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Speaker 1: Yeah and so. And as part of that taking the lead,

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Speaker 1: if they are scared of something, it's definitely a good

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Speaker 1: idea to skip over it, because like we're not instructors,

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Speaker 1: we're not teaching our child how to read. We're teaching

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Speaker 1: them to love to read. That's our job as parents.

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Speaker 1: And so why would you was your child through something

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Speaker 1: that is not pleasurable to them or just bringing up

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Speaker 1: negative emotions. So you definitely want to let them go

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Speaker 1: pass those scary passages. And perhaps because you're an actor,

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Speaker 1: you'll fall into a trap that I too fell into,

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Speaker 1: even though I can't act at all, which is sometimes

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Speaker 1: you get very caught up in your own experience. That's right,

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Speaker 1: you mean my performance of the Gruffalo. Sure, exactly what

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Speaker 1: you're saying. Right, You've got voices for all those characters, right,

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Speaker 1: Like the snake has its own little hissing thing. For sure.

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Speaker 1: You got me nailed, okay, And so it's kind of

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Speaker 1: upsetting when your child would be like, I don't like

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Speaker 1: the ogre voice, or like could you stop it with

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Speaker 1: a hissing um. There were certain books that I liked

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Speaker 1: to sing rather than read aloud, and I also can't sing,

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Speaker 1: and my kids let it be known after a while

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Speaker 1: that like, actually, could you just read that and not

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Speaker 1: sing it? You don't have to make up a little

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Speaker 1: tune for bread and Jam with Francis for Francis and so, um,

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Speaker 1: it's that that kind of stuff you have to let

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Speaker 1: go of as a parent and really handed to your kids.

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Speaker 1: And I think the same thing goes with your second question, UM,

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Speaker 1: which is there's a lot to that question about you know,

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Speaker 1: when is your child so too young to read something scary? Um.

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Speaker 1: I believe firmly that one, kids kind of know what

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Speaker 1: they're ready for and what they're not ready for. And

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Speaker 1: also kids are like kids will put things down, and

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Speaker 1: they also will choose to see certain things. That goes

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Speaker 1: back to what I was saying about Harry Potter. You know,

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Speaker 1: like if you think back to some of the things

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Speaker 1: that you movies, you saw books you read as a child,

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Speaker 1: and you didn't quite get it, and then you see

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Speaker 1: it again as a growing up and you're like, oh

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Speaker 1: my god. You know, like I had no idea. Um,

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Speaker 1: I'm a little bit older than you. And when I

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Speaker 1: was growing up in the seventies and eighties, you know,

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Speaker 1: parents weren't as as protective or cautious about material, and

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Speaker 1: there wasn't as much that was directly made for kids.

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Speaker 1: They'd be like, sure, let's all go see terms of

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Speaker 1: endearment or you know, let's go to watership down where

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Speaker 1: there are bloody bunnies, you know, dying on fields and

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Speaker 1: everything sort of you know, if it wasn't our sort

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Speaker 1: of seem like maybe it was okay. A lot of

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Speaker 1: the times I didn't absorb that stuff. I mean I

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Speaker 1: remember seeing terms of endearment, for example, with my mother,

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Speaker 1: and she came out sobbing and was so apologetic, and

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Speaker 1: I was like, I don't know what the problem is.

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Speaker 1: Of course I saw it as an adult and I

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Speaker 1: was weeping. Um, but kids don't necessarily see or absorb

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Speaker 1: all that, and some kids are drawn to it and

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Speaker 1: some very much are not. And one of the fascinating

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Speaker 1: things I find about, you know, viewing your child as

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Speaker 1: a reader, as you really have this different lens into

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Speaker 1: their inner life because you find out things that you

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Speaker 1: wouldn't necessarily know. Like one of my three kids, um

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Speaker 1: doesn't like sad stories? Does actually now two of them

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Speaker 1: don't like sad stories. I love crying when I read.

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Speaker 1: I love it so much, like if it if it

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Speaker 1: breaks me down, I'm like, this is the best book. Um.

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Speaker 1: My kids really don't like that, and so they will

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Speaker 1: shut the book. They'll ask not to get a book

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Speaker 1: about a dying squirrel again or about like a you know,

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Speaker 1: disabled box. Um. And you know, and then there were

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Speaker 1: kids that really really want that and seek that out,

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Speaker 1: especially when they get to you know, the teenage years.

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Speaker 1: That's great. So really we're letting them take the lead.

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Speaker 1: Were you a huge reader as a kid? Um? I

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Speaker 1: definitely was a huge reader as a kid. I um

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Speaker 1: I felt like things were better in books than they

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Speaker 1: were in real life. Um I. It wasn't that I

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Speaker 1: was a hugely unhappy child. I grew up with though,

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Speaker 1: with seven brothers. And some people will hear that, and

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Speaker 1: they but like, you must have been so spoiled and

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Speaker 1: so cherished, and it's like no, I was, you know,

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Speaker 1: got the crappy eaten out of me. Like anything anything

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Speaker 1: that was yeh, anything that was like remotely girlish was

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Speaker 1: like really not cool. Um And also it um I

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Speaker 1: often had a situation where they would get paired off

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Speaker 1: and I would be alone. So girlhood was sort of

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Speaker 1: seen as a negative thing. I was also really shy,

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Speaker 1: and I had no ills or talents whatsoever. So you know,

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Speaker 1: other kids might go and have you know, violin lessons,

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Speaker 1: or play soccer or do gymnastics and I was really,

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Speaker 1: um unskilled at all of those things, and so for me,

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Speaker 1: the default was always to read in books because things

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Speaker 1: felt better in there. Um. You know, there were sisters

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Speaker 1: in books and everybody got along, and you know, parents

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Speaker 1: made like homemade meals that weren't you know, steam broccoli

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Speaker 1: and baked potatoes, and just like all these great things

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Speaker 1: would happen in books. Or you could you know, be

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Speaker 1: heroin like Meg Murray and A Wrinkle in Time. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: did your um? Were your parents very like you said?

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Speaker 1: They really were? They just leaving you alone and so

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Speaker 1: you were able to read whatever you so chose. Or

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Speaker 1: were they encouraging of the topics and things that you

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Speaker 1: were interested in? Well, you know, I grew up in

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Speaker 1: the great era of underparenting. You know, it's like take

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Speaker 1: benign to collect and like and multiply it. So a

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Speaker 1: lot of the time they weren't all too aware. But

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Speaker 1: I was also a very good kid, even though I'd

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Speaker 1: like to read about dark things. And I remember, um,

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Speaker 1: I remember one time going and getting a book. Um,

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Speaker 1: and now I was probably ten years old, and I,

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Speaker 1: you know, would pick things out because of the cover.

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Speaker 1: I didn't know what I was doing, and I realized

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Speaker 1: as I got into it that it was a lesbian

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Speaker 1: love story and fairly explicit, and I actually turned it in.

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Speaker 1: I was like, I don't think this is appropriate for me.

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Speaker 1: You're such a goody two shoes. I'm obsessed by the way.

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Speaker 1: I can only call that because I would have done

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Speaker 1: the exact same. Although then fast forward about a year later,

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Speaker 1: I was reading um, Bob Woodward's Wired, which was the

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Speaker 1: John Belushi story, and you know, I think my mom

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Speaker 1: saw it and that like confiscated it. Yeah, that should

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Speaker 1: not that's not that's that's a lot. Yeah, I was.

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Speaker 1: I think I was eleven. Oh my god. Yeah, she

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Speaker 1: was like, you're not reading about a harmonatic. I meant

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Speaker 1: this already, but so I'm a reader, Adam is not.

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Speaker 1: Are there any I'm not sure how it is in

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Speaker 1: your household, but are there any tips on how to

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Speaker 1: encourage partners to cross over the reading rainbow? So to speak?

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Speaker 1: I mean, I feel, I mean, we have you talked about,

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Speaker 1: like reading right now. In our son's life is very ritualistic.

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Speaker 1: It's what he does first thing in the morning, um,

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Speaker 1: when he wakes up, and you know, it's a good

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Speaker 1: thirty forty minutes and it's what he does before bed

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Speaker 1: and and he demands it, you know what I mean,

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Speaker 1: He's like, is it time to read books now? Like

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Speaker 1: it's a it's a real thing. And I actually took

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Speaker 1: this idea from Carrie Washington, but I didn't need I

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Speaker 1: was one of the many perks of being an actor

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Speaker 1: is for some reason, when you get pregnant and have

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Speaker 1: a baby, they send you a ton of free stuff,

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Speaker 1: which I then give to all of my other actor

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Speaker 1: friends or my siblings or whatever. But I didn't need

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Speaker 1: anything for my baby shower, so I just asked everyone

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Speaker 1: to please bring their favorite children's book and it was awesome. Um,

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Speaker 1: And not to say, most of your mom is out

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Speaker 1: there listening, register for whatever the hell you need, because

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Speaker 1: it's the opportunity, and you spend a lot of time

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Speaker 1: getting other people stuff, so make the most of it.

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Speaker 1: But for me, the a great idea. I didn't need stuff.

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Speaker 1: Or if your mom out there who's had a ton

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Speaker 1: of hand me downs and you don't need stuff, I

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Speaker 1: have to say, like getting a children's book from each

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Speaker 1: friend and having each person right in that it was

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Speaker 1: from them is so great because not only does my

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Speaker 1: son have this awesome library right now, and people were

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Speaker 1: really cool. They gave books that were for all different ages.

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Speaker 1: But then they also, you know, they when he Albi

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Speaker 1: knows now when he opens the book, like, oh, this

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00:19:36,400 --> 00:19:39,040
Speaker 1: one's from Carry or this one's from aunt Tera. So

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00:19:39,080 --> 00:19:42,639
Speaker 1: we have a really good um base right now. And

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Speaker 1: again we read morning and night and my husband's really

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Speaker 1: taken to it, which was great, Like he reads a

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Speaker 1: lot because my husband is not a reader, but he's

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Speaker 1: only two and a half. How do we keep this up?

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Speaker 1: How do my husband and I keep encouraging reading in

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Speaker 1: our son? All right, I have a lot to say

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Speaker 1: about this, but one thing I will say I think

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00:20:00,560 --> 00:20:04,720
Speaker 1: might influence your husband if he is prone to is

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Speaker 1: he if he's easily influenced by research and by data.

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Speaker 1: Here are a few facts that you can arm yourself with.

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Speaker 1: One is that we know that modeling reading behavior is

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Speaker 1: hugely influential. If you want to raise a reader, be

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Speaker 1: a reader. Your kids should see you reading for pleasure.

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Speaker 1: They should hear you talking about the books that you love,

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Speaker 1: so that books are not just seen as something for

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Speaker 1: little kids, but books are something to aspire to. Books

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00:20:32,119 --> 00:20:36,080
Speaker 1: are something that adults choose to do in their spare time.

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Speaker 1: That that's how you know, and when you think about it, like,

404
00:20:38,960 --> 00:20:41,200
Speaker 1: at a certain point, kids look at grown ups as

405
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Speaker 1: like having all the rights and privileges of the world,

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Speaker 1: right when they begin to realize that they're not the

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Speaker 1: total center and that there are other things that parents

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00:20:49,480 --> 00:20:51,720
Speaker 1: are doing without them, whether it's like going out on

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00:20:51,800 --> 00:20:53,960
Speaker 1: a date night or drinking or whatever it might be.

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Speaker 1: So you want to make sure that the things that

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Speaker 1: they're looking up to, that they're aspiring to are things

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Speaker 1: that actually you would like them to do. And specifically

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00:21:03,520 --> 00:21:07,480
Speaker 1: with boys, there is some really interesting and kind of um,

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Speaker 1: I won't say alarming, but no, it is alarming. Let's

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00:21:10,520 --> 00:21:12,119
Speaker 1: go there, like I this is what I was going

416
00:21:12,160 --> 00:21:13,879
Speaker 1: to bring up later, but like, we should definitely get

417
00:21:13,880 --> 00:21:15,920
Speaker 1: into this now that studies seem to indicate that there's

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Speaker 1: a gender gap, with more girls tending to read for

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Speaker 1: pleasure than boys, and we see a ripple effect and

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Speaker 1: higher education, which me is my warrior self scares the

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00:21:23,920 --> 00:21:27,320
Speaker 1: crap enemy, um and I and I know that to

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Speaker 1: be true. I only had one brother, but my brother

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Speaker 1: sure as hell wasn't a reader, and I was and

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Speaker 1: I am, and my husband's not. And you know, so

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Speaker 1: I see, I hate to say, at the writing on

426
00:21:37,400 --> 00:21:41,040
Speaker 1: the wall, um or the reading on the wall. And so,

427
00:21:41,359 --> 00:21:44,920
Speaker 1: there are actual statistics out there that boys read less

428
00:21:44,920 --> 00:21:48,480
Speaker 1: than girls, right they do. So boys read less frequently

429
00:21:48,480 --> 00:21:50,960
Speaker 1: than girls do, They read fewer books, they are less

430
00:21:51,000 --> 00:21:54,360
Speaker 1: likely to say that reading is a preferred activity. They're

431
00:21:54,440 --> 00:21:57,359
Speaker 1: less likely to read for fun, for pleasure over the summer,

432
00:21:57,920 --> 00:22:01,560
Speaker 1: um and so. And then coupled with that, boys tend

433
00:22:01,600 --> 00:22:04,320
Speaker 1: to read or learn to how to read, about a

434
00:22:04,400 --> 00:22:08,320
Speaker 1: year behind girls. Now what's interesting is that, just as

435
00:22:08,359 --> 00:22:10,879
Speaker 1: a little side note, that's also kind of comforting if

436
00:22:10,880 --> 00:22:13,639
Speaker 1: you're raising a boy, because the age at what your

437
00:22:13,680 --> 00:22:16,160
Speaker 1: child learns to read is not a reflection of how

438
00:22:16,200 --> 00:22:17,960
Speaker 1: good a reader they will become. It's kind of like

439
00:22:18,000 --> 00:22:19,919
Speaker 1: tying your shoelaces. Like if you learn to tie your

440
00:22:19,920 --> 00:22:23,359
Speaker 1: shoelaces at age four versus age seven, it doesn't mean

441
00:22:23,359 --> 00:22:25,080
Speaker 1: you're going to be a better shoelace tier, you know,

442
00:22:25,119 --> 00:22:27,639
Speaker 1: in your twenty one So you know, the age at

443
00:22:27,640 --> 00:22:30,720
Speaker 1: which you learned how to read does not affect your

444
00:22:30,880 --> 00:22:33,080
Speaker 1: performance later in life. If that were true, like women

445
00:22:33,080 --> 00:22:35,320
Speaker 1: would be ruling the whole world because you know, we

446
00:22:35,400 --> 00:22:38,600
Speaker 1: all learned how to read before the way earlier, earlier.

447
00:22:38,640 --> 00:22:42,879
Speaker 1: In general their exceptions. Um. That said, we do know

448
00:22:42,960 --> 00:22:45,040
Speaker 1: that boys read less, we do know that they enjoy

449
00:22:45,080 --> 00:22:47,960
Speaker 1: it less. And here to statistics where parents are a

450
00:22:48,000 --> 00:22:51,439
Speaker 1: little bit responsible. One is that both girls and boys

451
00:22:51,640 --> 00:22:54,639
Speaker 1: say they see their fathers reading less frequently than they

452
00:22:54,680 --> 00:22:58,679
Speaker 1: see their mother's reading. So boys early on kind of

453
00:22:58,680 --> 00:23:01,880
Speaker 1: get the idea of like, oh, like girl books, maybe

454
00:23:01,880 --> 00:23:04,280
Speaker 1: those are for girls. You know, that's for women. That's

455
00:23:04,280 --> 00:23:07,239
Speaker 1: not like a man thing, that's not uh, you know,

456
00:23:07,280 --> 00:23:10,159
Speaker 1: a guy thing to do. Um. And then interestingly, not

457
00:23:10,200 --> 00:23:14,040
Speaker 1: to lay all the blame on the fathers. Both women

458
00:23:14,119 --> 00:23:18,560
Speaker 1: and men. Both mothers and fathers read aloud less often

459
00:23:18,760 --> 00:23:22,199
Speaker 1: to their sons than they do to their daughters. And

460
00:23:22,240 --> 00:23:25,760
Speaker 1: there yes, but there's some interesting reasons why that might be.

461
00:23:26,200 --> 00:23:28,439
Speaker 1: One is, and now you have a boy who assume

462
00:23:28,640 --> 00:23:33,360
Speaker 1: age three super active. Sometimes when you're reading to him,

463
00:23:33,400 --> 00:23:36,720
Speaker 1: he might not be cuddling up on your lap, snuggling

464
00:23:36,760 --> 00:23:39,080
Speaker 1: his lov e and like holding onto your arm in

465
00:23:39,119 --> 00:23:41,480
Speaker 1: the way that you might have like imagined, you know,

466
00:23:41,520 --> 00:23:45,040
Speaker 1: bedtime reading might be. He might instead be crawling off

467
00:23:45,119 --> 00:23:50,840
Speaker 1: your lap, wandering around the ruling the teddy bear. It's

468
00:23:50,880 --> 00:23:53,720
Speaker 1: like that's right. And you know, boys are just generally

469
00:23:53,720 --> 00:23:55,959
Speaker 1: more active. They can be more kinetic readers, and there

470
00:23:55,960 --> 00:23:58,240
Speaker 1: are things that you can do. You can get them

471
00:23:58,280 --> 00:24:01,639
Speaker 1: books that are more suited to boys. So boys like

472
00:24:01,760 --> 00:24:04,240
Speaker 1: interactive books, they might like pop up books. They might

473
00:24:04,240 --> 00:24:06,480
Speaker 1: like books that they can you know, that have lots

474
00:24:06,480 --> 00:24:09,280
Speaker 1: of flaps. The other thing is, and this becomes even

475
00:24:09,320 --> 00:24:12,960
Speaker 1: more important as boys get older, is that not every

476
00:24:13,000 --> 00:24:16,040
Speaker 1: boy wants to sit down and read Pride and Prejudice. Like.

477
00:24:16,080 --> 00:24:18,879
Speaker 1: They don't necessarily want to read a long novel. They

478
00:24:18,880 --> 00:24:22,520
Speaker 1: don't necessarily want to read a block of gray text.

479
00:24:22,960 --> 00:24:25,560
Speaker 1: They might be a fact seeker. They might want to

480
00:24:25,560 --> 00:24:27,800
Speaker 1: sit down. I mean, one of my kids who is

481
00:24:27,880 --> 00:24:32,679
Speaker 1: now ten, we'll sit down with the science encyclopedia and

482
00:24:32,720 --> 00:24:35,920
Speaker 1: he will read it. Now, I there's nothing I would

483
00:24:35,960 --> 00:24:38,879
Speaker 1: want to read less than a science encyclopedia. Like I

484
00:24:38,920 --> 00:24:40,680
Speaker 1: would never sit down and be like, I think I'm

485
00:24:40,680 --> 00:24:43,240
Speaker 1: going to read the encyclopedia. Um, he will read a

486
00:24:43,240 --> 00:24:46,080
Speaker 1: book about the periodic table Like that to me is

487
00:24:46,160 --> 00:24:48,000
Speaker 1: that's not what I think of as like reading a book,

488
00:24:48,000 --> 00:24:50,480
Speaker 1: but it is to him. So and a lot of

489
00:24:50,520 --> 00:24:54,800
Speaker 1: other boys also are more visually oriented, so they might

490
00:24:54,840 --> 00:24:57,240
Speaker 1: like graphic novels. They might be drawn to comics, and

491
00:24:57,280 --> 00:25:00,520
Speaker 1: those are really great ways to get boys and enthusiastic

492
00:25:00,600 --> 00:25:05,439
Speaker 1: about reading comics. Hello occur to me because I mean

493
00:25:05,880 --> 00:25:08,640
Speaker 1: not in my wheelhouse. You know, I don't even think

494
00:25:08,640 --> 00:25:12,440
Speaker 1: about it. No, I mean, you know, comics are great.

495
00:25:12,560 --> 00:25:14,800
Speaker 1: They're great, And it doesn't mean that your child is

496
00:25:14,840 --> 00:25:17,399
Speaker 1: never going to read serious books like I read tons

497
00:25:17,400 --> 00:25:21,000
Speaker 1: of Archie comics, peanuts, you know, Calvin and Hobbes, like

498
00:25:21,080 --> 00:25:23,920
Speaker 1: all of those are great ways for boys to get

499
00:25:23,960 --> 00:25:26,960
Speaker 1: pleasure out of reading, even things like books of sports

500
00:25:27,000 --> 00:25:30,119
Speaker 1: statistics or joke books, like, all of that is reading,

501
00:25:30,600 --> 00:25:32,840
Speaker 1: and it's really important. Again, this is going back to

502
00:25:32,960 --> 00:25:35,760
Speaker 1: letting your child take the lead, not to judge as

503
00:25:35,760 --> 00:25:37,880
Speaker 1: a parent, not to be like that's not a real book.

504
00:25:37,960 --> 00:25:42,359
Speaker 1: That's prejudice or you know again, like if they're rereading,

505
00:25:42,960 --> 00:25:45,720
Speaker 1: kids as they get older will sometimes reread their same

506
00:25:45,760 --> 00:25:49,320
Speaker 1: book like twenty times. That's because it's become a source

507
00:25:49,359 --> 00:25:51,679
Speaker 1: of comfort for them, right, Like the characters in the

508
00:25:51,680 --> 00:25:55,040
Speaker 1: book might be people they sort of consider their friends,

509
00:25:55,200 --> 00:25:58,040
Speaker 1: characters they like to hang around with. Like there's a

510
00:25:58,080 --> 00:26:01,720
Speaker 1: reason so many people reread read Harry Potter it's because

511
00:26:02,119 --> 00:26:04,800
Speaker 1: who wouldn't rather be at Hogwarts sometimes than in the

512
00:26:04,920 --> 00:26:08,439
Speaker 1: real world. Right, That's a fun place to be. So

513
00:26:08,520 --> 00:26:11,280
Speaker 1: kids also want to revisit that world. So I would say,

514
00:26:11,320 --> 00:26:13,960
Speaker 1: like not to judge the kind of book your kid

515
00:26:14,040 --> 00:26:17,159
Speaker 1: is reading, how often they're reading it, like just to

516
00:26:17,200 --> 00:26:19,840
Speaker 1: sort of sit back and remember, my kid is choosing

517
00:26:19,880 --> 00:26:22,760
Speaker 1: to read. My kid is getting pleasure from it, and

518
00:26:22,800 --> 00:26:26,680
Speaker 1: so I really need to back off because and here

519
00:26:26,800 --> 00:26:29,919
Speaker 1: again goes to especially when Albi gets a little bit older,

520
00:26:30,200 --> 00:26:32,119
Speaker 1: he has a lot of other choices and he's going

521
00:26:32,160 --> 00:26:34,239
Speaker 1: to have many, many more of what to do. He

522
00:26:34,280 --> 00:26:37,520
Speaker 1: can go on Hulu, he can play Minecraft, he can

523
00:26:37,760 --> 00:26:41,919
Speaker 1: play um Fortnite, he can text his friends. I know

524
00:26:42,040 --> 00:26:44,440
Speaker 1: it's all gonna happen, and he'll be on TikTok. They'll

525
00:26:44,440 --> 00:26:46,919
Speaker 1: be like ten thousand other new websites. They'll be World

526
00:26:46,920 --> 00:26:49,720
Speaker 1: of Warcraft. Like. He can do all of those things.

527
00:26:49,880 --> 00:26:52,199
Speaker 1: If he is picking up a book and it's a

528
00:26:52,240 --> 00:26:55,199
Speaker 1: book about like, you know, the ten worst murders of

529
00:26:55,280 --> 00:26:58,200
Speaker 1: all times, Like, be happy he's picking up a book.

530
00:26:58,359 --> 00:27:02,200
Speaker 1: Let him read that, Let him enjoy that. Um. So

531
00:27:03,600 --> 00:27:06,919
Speaker 1: at this age that we're that, I'm that my child

532
00:27:06,960 --> 00:27:09,560
Speaker 1: will at some point be it when they have all

533
00:27:09,600 --> 00:27:13,800
Speaker 1: of these other options and they're now reluctant to read

534
00:27:13,800 --> 00:27:16,080
Speaker 1: it all, how do we reel them in? Is it

535
00:27:16,320 --> 00:27:19,720
Speaker 1: just the worst parenting in the world to incentivize them

536
00:27:19,760 --> 00:27:23,840
Speaker 1: or reward them or something, or because now reading has

537
00:27:23,840 --> 00:27:26,520
Speaker 1: become a big part of school, right, so like now

538
00:27:26,560 --> 00:27:30,119
Speaker 1: we probably associate reading with our English class or whatever.

539
00:27:30,560 --> 00:27:33,040
Speaker 1: I can remember my cousins like when we would be

540
00:27:33,080 --> 00:27:35,159
Speaker 1: on our summer family camping trip, they would have their

541
00:27:35,200 --> 00:27:39,359
Speaker 1: summer reading assignment, you know, and they would be hemming

542
00:27:39,400 --> 00:27:41,720
Speaker 1: and hawing and hating it and just complaining and the

543
00:27:41,760 --> 00:27:43,399
Speaker 1: book is so dumb and they don't want to do

544
00:27:43,440 --> 00:27:48,560
Speaker 1: it and blah blah blah, Like how what do you do? All? Right?

545
00:27:48,600 --> 00:27:51,840
Speaker 1: So this is going to sound totally counterintuitive because as

546
00:27:51,840 --> 00:27:55,800
Speaker 1: a parent, you're really used to incentivizing your kid with

547
00:27:55,840 --> 00:27:59,199
Speaker 1: rewards and negative consequences when they do something bad. Like

548
00:27:59,240 --> 00:28:01,240
Speaker 1: you want your kids to eat peas. You're like, oh

549
00:28:01,280 --> 00:28:05,320
Speaker 1: my gosh, the peas are so yummy. Here, just eat

550
00:28:05,359 --> 00:28:07,560
Speaker 1: this one spoonful of peas and then you can have

551
00:28:07,600 --> 00:28:09,760
Speaker 1: carrots and then you can you know whatever, this next

552
00:28:09,800 --> 00:28:12,919
Speaker 1: sweet thing is um And so we're used to a

553
00:28:13,000 --> 00:28:17,200
Speaker 1: system of like positive and negative consequences. But you really

554
00:28:17,280 --> 00:28:20,280
Speaker 1: have to put a hold on that when it comes

555
00:28:20,320 --> 00:28:23,520
Speaker 1: to reading, because you don't want your kid to read

556
00:28:23,800 --> 00:28:27,359
Speaker 1: in order to get something. You want your kid to

557
00:28:27,480 --> 00:28:31,880
Speaker 1: read because the reading is the reward. Reading a book

558
00:28:31,920 --> 00:28:33,680
Speaker 1: doesn't mean you get an extra hour if I've had

559
00:28:33,720 --> 00:28:36,560
Speaker 1: time reading the book is the good thing in and

560
00:28:36,600 --> 00:28:40,040
Speaker 1: of itself. You want to build that intrinsic motivation to read,

561
00:28:40,160 --> 00:28:43,840
Speaker 1: as opposed to giving them extrinsic rewards, saying like, if

562
00:28:43,880 --> 00:28:46,120
Speaker 1: you read ten books this summer, then at the end

563
00:28:46,120 --> 00:28:47,720
Speaker 1: of the you know year, you'll get your first phone

564
00:28:47,800 --> 00:28:50,479
Speaker 1: or whatever it is, whatever incentive plan you have depending

565
00:28:50,480 --> 00:28:52,680
Speaker 1: on the age of your child, or like, let's just finish,

566
00:28:52,720 --> 00:28:54,960
Speaker 1: you know, just finish reading this one book. Let's say

567
00:28:54,960 --> 00:28:56,320
Speaker 1: your child is learning to read, and then you can

568
00:28:56,360 --> 00:28:58,959
Speaker 1: have like a second dessert or whatever. Don't do it,

569
00:28:59,120 --> 00:29:02,920
Speaker 1: because you're you're giving them a message that reading is work,

570
00:29:03,320 --> 00:29:05,920
Speaker 1: Reading is the hard thing. Reading is the bad thing

571
00:29:06,240 --> 00:29:08,440
Speaker 1: in order to get to the good thing. So again,

572
00:29:08,560 --> 00:29:10,840
Speaker 1: fast forward ten years from now, when your kid's going

573
00:29:10,880 --> 00:29:13,120
Speaker 1: to be able to make all those choices on his own,

574
00:29:13,720 --> 00:29:16,360
Speaker 1: he's not going to read because reading is fun. He

575
00:29:16,400 --> 00:29:18,560
Speaker 1: already knows that reading is work and reading is something

576
00:29:18,600 --> 00:29:24,080
Speaker 1: they have to do. Right, that makes perfect sense. Um,

577
00:29:24,240 --> 00:29:27,360
Speaker 1: are there types of books that I don't know are

578
00:29:27,400 --> 00:29:33,000
Speaker 1: like especially beneficial to certain developmental points? Like like you said,

579
00:29:33,000 --> 00:29:36,960
Speaker 1: I know you had mentioned already. Um, like I remember

580
00:29:36,960 --> 00:29:38,840
Speaker 1: when it switched and now he was like obsessed with

581
00:29:38,880 --> 00:29:41,240
Speaker 1: the flip books. And you know like hide and seek

582
00:29:41,280 --> 00:29:43,600
Speaker 1: books where you open up stuff and flaps and things

583
00:29:43,600 --> 00:29:47,840
Speaker 1: are in there. But are there developmental books that we

584
00:29:47,880 --> 00:29:49,760
Speaker 1: should be putting in front of our kids or again

585
00:29:49,840 --> 00:29:52,520
Speaker 1: just really sitting back and offering a bunch of different

586
00:29:52,560 --> 00:29:54,120
Speaker 1: stuff and just see whatever they want to take the

587
00:29:54,200 --> 00:29:57,240
Speaker 1: lead on. It's the latter, I mean for sure. Remember

588
00:29:57,320 --> 00:30:00,120
Speaker 1: it's interesting we forget as parents. Right, You'll be like,

589
00:30:00,200 --> 00:30:04,920
Speaker 1: my kid loves poppies, but maybe your kid has never

590
00:30:04,960 --> 00:30:07,680
Speaker 1: seen a cat, or maybe your kid has never read

591
00:30:07,720 --> 00:30:10,680
Speaker 1: a book about trucks. You know, like they only know

592
00:30:10,720 --> 00:30:13,120
Speaker 1: what they know. They don't know. If they don't know,

593
00:30:13,240 --> 00:30:15,920
Speaker 1: you're introducing all that stuff to them, and sometimes you're

594
00:30:15,920 --> 00:30:18,600
Speaker 1: introducing it for the first time through a book. So

595
00:30:18,640 --> 00:30:20,680
Speaker 1: some kids they don't need to have been on a

596
00:30:20,720 --> 00:30:23,280
Speaker 1: plane to read a book about a plane. Like everything

597
00:30:23,360 --> 00:30:26,960
Speaker 1: is new to a small child, and so your job

598
00:30:27,200 --> 00:30:31,080
Speaker 1: is to expose them to as much variety as possible

599
00:30:31,120 --> 00:30:33,200
Speaker 1: because you don't know what your kid likes or doesn't like,

600
00:30:33,240 --> 00:30:36,400
Speaker 1: and he doesn't know either. So it's really exciting, I think,

601
00:30:36,800 --> 00:30:39,560
Speaker 1: to see like what your child ends up gravitating towards,

602
00:30:39,600 --> 00:30:42,360
Speaker 1: because you just you find out more about your child,

603
00:30:42,440 --> 00:30:44,960
Speaker 1: You find out things that you didn't know, and because

604
00:30:45,040 --> 00:30:48,120
Speaker 1: kids are so changeable and you know this too, three

605
00:30:48,120 --> 00:30:50,880
Speaker 1: months later it'll be something else. Yeah. It's like my

606
00:30:50,960 --> 00:30:55,200
Speaker 1: husband and I never in a million we've been either

607
00:30:55,240 --> 00:31:02,080
Speaker 1: thirteen years, I've never said the word excavator, back, eighteen wheeler,

608
00:31:02,440 --> 00:31:08,040
Speaker 1: cement mixer, I mean, every single type of dang truck exists.

609
00:31:08,520 --> 00:31:11,000
Speaker 1: And like that's just because all we do is read

610
00:31:11,040 --> 00:31:13,200
Speaker 1: about trucks, you know, and it's like that's what he

611
00:31:13,280 --> 00:31:17,600
Speaker 1: wants right now. Um, but two actors reading about trucks,

612
00:31:17,640 --> 00:31:19,120
Speaker 1: Adam and I sometimes look at each other. We're like

613
00:31:19,200 --> 00:31:21,640
Speaker 1: this is crazy, like this, you know, we're we we

614
00:31:21,800 --> 00:31:24,480
Speaker 1: love like, oh, we have all those baby Shakespeare books,

615
00:31:24,560 --> 00:31:27,160
Speaker 1: like oh, the baby version of Romeo and Juliet, or

616
00:31:27,160 --> 00:31:30,240
Speaker 1: like the baby version of Symboline. And maybe he doesn't

617
00:31:30,280 --> 00:31:33,640
Speaker 1: want that he wants, you know, good night, gunite construction

618
00:31:33,680 --> 00:31:35,640
Speaker 1: site or whatever, which is a great book. It's a

619
00:31:35,680 --> 00:31:38,160
Speaker 1: great book. And you know an interesting fun fact about

620
00:31:38,160 --> 00:31:40,480
Speaker 1: that book. That was that author's first book, and it

621
00:31:40,560 --> 00:31:43,480
Speaker 1: was found off the slush pile um, which I feel

622
00:31:43,480 --> 00:31:47,200
Speaker 1: like is like the actor equivalent of you know, being discovered.

623
00:31:47,840 --> 00:31:50,440
Speaker 1: You know you're working right at them all or you know,

624
00:31:50,680 --> 00:31:53,240
Speaker 1: working at McDonald's. Like it just so happens, you know,

625
00:31:53,360 --> 00:31:56,000
Speaker 1: to rarely. Um. And that's how that book came to be.

626
00:31:56,440 --> 00:31:59,400
Speaker 1: And it's fascinating. You know. I had all these ideas

627
00:31:59,400 --> 00:32:01,200
Speaker 1: of what my kids to be interested in. Like I

628
00:32:01,200 --> 00:32:03,040
Speaker 1: thought that my daughter would be, you know, the kind

629
00:32:03,040 --> 00:32:05,400
Speaker 1: of girl who would like to read about like nature

630
00:32:05,680 --> 00:32:08,360
Speaker 1: and would be chasing frogs like. She did not want

631
00:32:08,400 --> 00:32:10,440
Speaker 1: to do that. And I couldn't blame her, because I

632
00:32:10,480 --> 00:32:12,360
Speaker 1: wasn't that girl either, you know, out there in the

633
00:32:12,440 --> 00:32:14,640
Speaker 1: mud with the bugs. Like she was not interested. My

634
00:32:14,800 --> 00:32:17,360
Speaker 1: boys and my daughter, none of them could have cared

635
00:32:17,440 --> 00:32:20,880
Speaker 1: less about dinosaurs. I brought home tons of books about

636
00:32:20,880 --> 00:32:23,920
Speaker 1: dinosaurs because my first job at the New York Times

637
00:32:23,960 --> 00:32:25,800
Speaker 1: was as the children's folks at it Are, So I

638
00:32:26,200 --> 00:32:30,440
Speaker 1: got all these books, um, and never, they never could

639
00:32:30,480 --> 00:32:33,800
Speaker 1: care less about dinosaurs, like none of them. But then

640
00:32:33,840 --> 00:32:38,400
Speaker 1: some kids are completely obsessed, obsessed, obsessed, So it's it

641
00:32:38,760 --> 00:32:41,040
Speaker 1: is kind of fascinating, um to see what your what

642
00:32:41,120 --> 00:32:43,920
Speaker 1: your kids end up being interested in in terms of

643
00:32:43,920 --> 00:32:46,520
Speaker 1: like the level and all of that. It goes back

644
00:32:46,560 --> 00:32:48,600
Speaker 1: to my point of you're not there to teach your

645
00:32:48,680 --> 00:32:51,200
Speaker 1: child how to read, so you don't need to worry

646
00:32:51,240 --> 00:32:53,560
Speaker 1: too much about, you know, is this the right level.

647
00:32:53,640 --> 00:32:56,040
Speaker 1: The thing at your child's age to think about is

648
00:32:56,360 --> 00:32:59,120
Speaker 1: are they engaged with the story? Do they feel you know,

649
00:32:59,160 --> 00:33:02,160
Speaker 1: you can you can gauge their attention and their interests

650
00:33:02,640 --> 00:33:05,520
Speaker 1: when while you're reading to them, or is this too

651
00:33:05,520 --> 00:33:08,200
Speaker 1: many words per page? Are they wanting to, you know,

652
00:33:08,240 --> 00:33:11,520
Speaker 1: turn the page to get ahead. When your child is three,

653
00:33:12,160 --> 00:33:15,040
Speaker 1: they're actually reading the book, but what they're reading is

654
00:33:15,080 --> 00:33:18,400
Speaker 1: the pictures while you're reading the words, and so as

655
00:33:18,440 --> 00:33:21,080
Speaker 1: you're reading to them, they will be looking at the

656
00:33:21,080 --> 00:33:24,720
Speaker 1: pictures and there's often a different story embedded in those pictures. Right.

657
00:33:24,720 --> 00:33:26,360
Speaker 1: Sometimes your kids will laugh and you'll be like, there

658
00:33:26,400 --> 00:33:28,640
Speaker 1: was nothing funny in what I said, but they're laughing

659
00:33:28,720 --> 00:33:31,560
Speaker 1: at some other little substrand of the story that's going

660
00:33:31,600 --> 00:33:35,360
Speaker 1: on on the page in the pictures, and so you

661
00:33:35,400 --> 00:33:38,440
Speaker 1: can gauge again if your child is sort of not

662
00:33:38,520 --> 00:33:41,880
Speaker 1: looking at the book is wanting to close it. It's

663
00:33:41,880 --> 00:33:43,760
Speaker 1: really funny too. I mean, I'm sure you saw this one.

664
00:33:43,800 --> 00:33:46,040
Speaker 1: Albie was even you know, younger than he is now.

665
00:33:46,320 --> 00:33:49,040
Speaker 1: The kids will just shook the book. Oh. He does

666
00:33:49,040 --> 00:33:51,680
Speaker 1: that all the time. If I try to pick, like, hey,

667
00:33:51,720 --> 00:33:53,800
Speaker 1: can mommy pick a new book off the shelf? You know,

668
00:33:53,920 --> 00:33:56,160
Speaker 1: which is like me dying a slow death that I've

669
00:33:56,160 --> 00:33:58,880
Speaker 1: read the same fifteen books every morning and night for

670
00:33:58,920 --> 00:34:00,920
Speaker 1: the past week. And I I go to get a

671
00:34:00,920 --> 00:34:03,280
Speaker 1: new book, and if it's it's funny because if it

672
00:34:03,520 --> 00:34:06,239
Speaker 1: is what I would deem like more advanced, there's too

673
00:34:06,280 --> 00:34:08,640
Speaker 1: many words on the page. He's not having it, like

674
00:34:08,719 --> 00:34:11,279
Speaker 1: he's just like, you know, he shuts it. He's just

675
00:34:11,360 --> 00:34:13,960
Speaker 1: not he's like, you know, he or he doesn't like

676
00:34:13,960 --> 00:34:17,239
Speaker 1: the pictures or for whatever reason I don't know. Um, yeah,

677
00:34:17,280 --> 00:34:20,480
Speaker 1: he decides um. And then I find it interesting when

678
00:34:20,480 --> 00:34:23,279
Speaker 1: he goes back to books that he liked when he

679
00:34:23,360 --> 00:34:27,160
Speaker 1: was really really little, like, um, oh god, what is

680
00:34:27,160 --> 00:34:31,439
Speaker 1: that Path of Bunny Paul Paul and Judy Like Path

681
00:34:31,480 --> 00:34:33,719
Speaker 1: the Bunny? Now you scratch your dad's scratchy feel like

682
00:34:33,760 --> 00:34:37,840
Speaker 1: sometimes he'll request like books from when he was very little,

683
00:34:38,000 --> 00:34:40,600
Speaker 1: or The Very Hungry Caterpillar, you know, which he was

684
00:34:40,640 --> 00:34:42,719
Speaker 1: super into at one, but he hasn't really looked at

685
00:34:42,719 --> 00:34:45,000
Speaker 1: in two years, Like we're back on that. You know,

686
00:34:45,600 --> 00:34:48,760
Speaker 1: that is that is totally appropriate, and that is great.

687
00:34:49,239 --> 00:34:51,880
Speaker 1: That's great because it's funny, like kids are capable of

688
00:34:51,920 --> 00:34:54,759
Speaker 1: kind of nostalgia and wanting that comfort from a very

689
00:34:54,800 --> 00:34:57,560
Speaker 1: young age, and and sometimes it feels new to them,

690
00:34:57,680 --> 00:35:00,360
Speaker 1: and sometimes it feels familiar, or sometimes they're seeing something

691
00:35:00,400 --> 00:35:03,280
Speaker 1: different in it. You know, books like The Very Hungry

692
00:35:03,320 --> 00:35:05,560
Speaker 1: Caterpillar when they were really little and they seemed really

693
00:35:05,600 --> 00:35:07,759
Speaker 1: into it and they were taking their little fingers and

694
00:35:07,800 --> 00:35:10,440
Speaker 1: poking it through the teeny coles in the page. That

695
00:35:10,520 --> 00:35:12,080
Speaker 1: may have been what they loved so much about that

696
00:35:12,080 --> 00:35:14,279
Speaker 1: book then, but what they might love about it a

697
00:35:14,360 --> 00:35:16,919
Speaker 1: year later is the words. You know, Oh yeah, he's

698
00:35:17,000 --> 00:35:18,640
Speaker 1: what he's into about it now is that it says

699
00:35:18,760 --> 00:35:24,080
Speaker 1: chocolate cake and cup cupcake and lollipop. Like he's into it.

700
00:35:24,160 --> 00:35:25,680
Speaker 1: He's like, oh, this is a book that there are

701
00:35:25,719 --> 00:35:28,520
Speaker 1: treats and right right, and when you read it to him,

702
00:35:28,520 --> 00:35:30,640
Speaker 1: when he was like fourteen months old, he just like

703
00:35:30,680 --> 00:35:34,600
Speaker 1: putting his fingers and exactly didn't know what a lollipop was. Exactly.

704
00:35:43,320 --> 00:35:45,719
Speaker 1: What do you think parents, I'm not there yet, but

705
00:35:45,800 --> 00:35:50,759
Speaker 1: I'm sure it will come. The stress about when their

706
00:35:50,840 --> 00:35:53,440
Speaker 1: kids have to learn to read, and are they reading yet,

707
00:35:53,520 --> 00:35:57,200
Speaker 1: and if it's challenging or they're supposed to be at

708
00:35:57,200 --> 00:36:01,480
Speaker 1: a certain place at school. Like I just feel like, ah,

709
00:36:01,520 --> 00:36:04,680
Speaker 1: that must just be very stressful. Yes, you will get

710
00:36:04,680 --> 00:36:06,560
Speaker 1: that stress. It will come, But I hope that I

711
00:36:06,560 --> 00:36:10,840
Speaker 1: can provide um some comfort because, as I said earlier,

712
00:36:10,920 --> 00:36:13,160
Speaker 1: it truly does not matter the age at which your

713
00:36:13,239 --> 00:36:16,799
Speaker 1: child learns to read. There are there are studies that

714
00:36:16,920 --> 00:36:19,239
Speaker 1: show that the age at which your child begins to

715
00:36:19,239 --> 00:36:23,080
Speaker 1: read has no bearing on how good a reader they become,

716
00:36:23,480 --> 00:36:27,720
Speaker 1: how voracious a reader they become, how enthusiastic or sophisticated

717
00:36:27,760 --> 00:36:30,640
Speaker 1: a reader they become. Their other things that do have

718
00:36:30,680 --> 00:36:32,920
Speaker 1: an impact on it, the agent which you start reading

719
00:36:33,320 --> 00:36:35,919
Speaker 1: does not. And in fact, you know, it's like any

720
00:36:35,920 --> 00:36:38,880
Speaker 1: other milestone we all know, we go to the pediatrician,

721
00:36:39,000 --> 00:36:41,200
Speaker 1: we read the parenting books. You see the milestones. There's

722
00:36:41,200 --> 00:36:44,960
Speaker 1: always a range, right, and sometimes you know you'll look

723
00:36:45,000 --> 00:36:46,719
Speaker 1: at like another kid and you'll be like, wow, like,

724
00:36:46,920 --> 00:36:50,560
Speaker 1: my kid can totally do a forward somersault and that

725
00:36:50,680 --> 00:36:53,200
Speaker 1: kid can't, So my kid is ahead. And then you'll

726
00:36:53,200 --> 00:36:55,240
Speaker 1: see that kid like get up and use an extremely

727
00:36:55,280 --> 00:36:58,200
Speaker 1: sophisticated sentence with like three adverbs with their parents and

728
00:36:58,320 --> 00:37:01,680
Speaker 1: be like, oh, you're like, is doing this other thing

729
00:37:01,840 --> 00:37:05,240
Speaker 1: that my kid maybe isn't. Like, kids developed different things

730
00:37:05,360 --> 00:37:08,759
Speaker 1: at different times, and it really does not have any

731
00:37:08,800 --> 00:37:13,960
Speaker 1: like long term implication. And with reading, it's a complicated process.

732
00:37:14,040 --> 00:37:18,719
Speaker 1: It's decoding, it's word recognition, it's like piniamic awareness. There

733
00:37:18,719 --> 00:37:20,680
Speaker 1: are all these different things that happen in the brain,

734
00:37:21,080 --> 00:37:23,839
Speaker 1: and not all kids are developed mentally. Their brains aren't

735
00:37:23,880 --> 00:37:27,240
Speaker 1: developed necessarily at this, you know, at the same time

736
00:37:27,520 --> 00:37:29,040
Speaker 1: to be able to do that. And that's one of

737
00:37:29,040 --> 00:37:31,880
Speaker 1: the reasons why boys read later. Their brains aren't there yet.

738
00:37:32,440 --> 00:37:36,279
Speaker 1: In Europe, in Scandinavia and I was going to braise up.

739
00:37:36,320 --> 00:37:39,080
Speaker 1: I've read about this, keep going. I love it. I'm fascinated. Yeah,

740
00:37:39,160 --> 00:37:41,319
Speaker 1: they don't even start to teach kids how to read

741
00:37:41,400 --> 00:37:44,480
Speaker 1: until there's seven, eight or nine years old. And what's

742
00:37:44,560 --> 00:37:48,440
Speaker 1: smart about that is that if you're child is pushed

743
00:37:48,480 --> 00:37:50,879
Speaker 1: to read at too young an age, and then they're

744
00:37:50,920 --> 00:37:52,719
Speaker 1: gonna hate it. They're gonna hate it because they're going

745
00:37:52,800 --> 00:37:55,600
Speaker 1: to be frustrated and they're going to self label themselves

746
00:37:55,640 --> 00:37:58,040
Speaker 1: as bad readers, and they're going to label books is

747
00:37:58,160 --> 00:38:00,480
Speaker 1: something that's hard and that makes them feel bad about

748
00:38:00,520 --> 00:38:04,440
Speaker 1: themselves because every kid who's in like group D on

749
00:38:04,520 --> 00:38:07,880
Speaker 1: the leveled Readers knows that the other kids are in

750
00:38:07,960 --> 00:38:11,040
Speaker 1: group N, and then automatically they're just gonna start thinking, well,

751
00:38:11,080 --> 00:38:13,160
Speaker 1: books aren't my thing. I'm not a good reader, I'm

752
00:38:13,200 --> 00:38:15,240
Speaker 1: no good at that. I'm going to do this instead,

753
00:38:15,320 --> 00:38:17,759
Speaker 1: maybe I'm a math person or maybe i'm, you know,

754
00:38:17,840 --> 00:38:20,800
Speaker 1: a sports person or whatever it is. So the kids

755
00:38:20,840 --> 00:38:23,840
Speaker 1: become frustrated if they learn to read or they're forced

756
00:38:23,880 --> 00:38:26,520
Speaker 1: to read at too young an age. And what happens

757
00:38:26,560 --> 00:38:29,640
Speaker 1: too is interesting. When kids do start to read, for

758
00:38:29,680 --> 00:38:35,200
Speaker 1: the most part around age six, they are reading stories

759
00:38:35,239 --> 00:38:40,200
Speaker 1: that go like this, the cat sat on the mat. Now,

760
00:38:40,520 --> 00:38:42,680
Speaker 1: if you know any six year olds, you know that

761
00:38:42,760 --> 00:38:45,920
Speaker 1: many six year olds are able to listen to the

762
00:38:45,960 --> 00:38:48,640
Speaker 1: first book of Harry Potter and totally enjoy it. They're

763
00:38:48,680 --> 00:38:52,200
Speaker 1: ready for more sophisticated stories than the cat sat on

764
00:38:52,239 --> 00:38:55,120
Speaker 1: the mat. So the book they're reading is incredibly boring.

765
00:38:55,680 --> 00:38:57,719
Speaker 1: So one thing to do when your kid is that

766
00:38:57,880 --> 00:39:00,160
Speaker 1: age is to remember, okay, what they're being for to

767
00:39:00,160 --> 00:39:03,359
Speaker 1: read on their own super boring. You don't want them

768
00:39:03,360 --> 00:39:05,640
Speaker 1: to think that reading is all bad, So you want

769
00:39:05,640 --> 00:39:07,480
Speaker 1: to remember as a parent what you can do as

770
00:39:07,480 --> 00:39:10,000
Speaker 1: opposed to sort of sitting over them and making them

771
00:39:10,040 --> 00:39:12,560
Speaker 1: sounded out and do all of that kind of quote

772
00:39:12,600 --> 00:39:16,399
Speaker 1: unquote helping. Remember that's the teacher's job, hand that over

773
00:39:16,400 --> 00:39:18,880
Speaker 1: to them. That's what they're doing in school. What you

774
00:39:19,040 --> 00:39:22,040
Speaker 1: do is you continue to read them wonderful picture books

775
00:39:22,280 --> 00:39:26,400
Speaker 1: with stories they like, with beautiful illustration. And remember picture

776
00:39:26,400 --> 00:39:29,400
Speaker 1: books are written for adults to read, so the words

777
00:39:29,440 --> 00:39:32,960
Speaker 1: are much more sophisticated. They are, you know, the their

778
00:39:32,960 --> 00:39:35,480
Speaker 1: books that that six year old could never read by themselves.

779
00:39:36,000 --> 00:39:38,160
Speaker 1: Keep reading to them. You don't want to send the

780
00:39:38,280 --> 00:39:40,560
Speaker 1: message to them that now that you're reading on your own,

781
00:39:41,239 --> 00:39:43,680
Speaker 1: that's all you get, you know, bedtime reading with mommy

782
00:39:43,760 --> 00:39:46,680
Speaker 1: or on the mat and you're in group and like

783
00:39:46,760 --> 00:39:49,680
Speaker 1: good luck in You don't want to like pull out

784
00:39:50,200 --> 00:39:53,040
Speaker 1: from under them something that they love for years, which

785
00:39:53,040 --> 00:39:55,279
Speaker 1: was like bedtime reading with mommy or Sunday morning reading

786
00:39:55,280 --> 00:39:57,359
Speaker 1: in bed or whatever it is that you did, so

787
00:39:57,400 --> 00:39:59,560
Speaker 1: you don't want to take away something and punish them

788
00:39:59,560 --> 00:40:02,120
Speaker 1: for learning to read. And then also, maybe you're reading

789
00:40:02,120 --> 00:40:03,799
Speaker 1: to them a book at night that's a chapter book.

790
00:40:03,840 --> 00:40:06,560
Speaker 1: Maybe you're reading The One and Only Ivan by Katherine Applegate,

791
00:40:06,840 --> 00:40:08,879
Speaker 1: or you're reading the Betsy Tasty books or A Little

792
00:40:08,920 --> 00:40:11,399
Speaker 1: House in the Prairie or Harry Potter, whatever it is.

793
00:40:11,960 --> 00:40:14,400
Speaker 1: They can still absorb that story while you're reading it,

794
00:40:14,480 --> 00:40:15,840
Speaker 1: So you want to make sure that they're getting the

795
00:40:15,840 --> 00:40:19,680
Speaker 1: full range of books so they know while they're why

796
00:40:19,800 --> 00:40:22,799
Speaker 1: they're doing that really boring and difficult, the cats out

797
00:40:22,800 --> 00:40:28,080
Speaker 1: on the matwork. M this is this is such. You

798
00:40:28,120 --> 00:40:30,600
Speaker 1: are just rocking my whole planet right now. And I

799
00:40:30,600 --> 00:40:32,839
Speaker 1: can't wait for this podcast to be cut together. And

800
00:40:33,280 --> 00:40:35,680
Speaker 1: I give my husband like the ones where I'm like

801
00:40:35,840 --> 00:40:39,319
Speaker 1: this one. You have to listen to this, he has

802
00:40:39,400 --> 00:40:43,319
Speaker 1: to listen to just quickly, Um, before we wrap up,

803
00:40:43,360 --> 00:40:45,160
Speaker 1: I want to switch gears a little bit and talk

804
00:40:45,200 --> 00:40:47,480
Speaker 1: about another article you wrote that really spoke to me

805
00:40:48,360 --> 00:40:51,680
Speaker 1: about letting children get bored again? Can we I want

806
00:40:51,680 --> 00:40:53,160
Speaker 1: to talk a little bit about that, because I think

807
00:40:53,200 --> 00:40:56,960
Speaker 1: this is I think this is an amazing reminder in general,

808
00:40:57,080 --> 00:41:00,640
Speaker 1: but also during this time that we are in quarantine

809
00:41:00,680 --> 00:41:03,120
Speaker 1: and where a lot of us are being asked to

810
00:41:03,160 --> 00:41:07,680
Speaker 1: step back and stay indoors with our kids. Um And

811
00:41:09,040 --> 00:41:12,040
Speaker 1: you know, as an artist, you know, imagination was a

812
00:41:12,120 --> 00:41:17,960
Speaker 1: huge part of my childhood. And I feel the helicopter

813
00:41:18,080 --> 00:41:21,200
Speaker 1: parent thing that your parents generation did not partake in,

814
00:41:21,320 --> 00:41:27,000
Speaker 1: but mind certainly did. And I feel that with all

815
00:41:27,040 --> 00:41:29,400
Speaker 1: the over scheduling and all this stuff that we're constantly

816
00:41:29,600 --> 00:41:31,360
Speaker 1: bringing our child and again I saw it with a

817
00:41:31,360 --> 00:41:33,080
Speaker 1: lot of the kids I baby set for It's like

818
00:41:33,120 --> 00:41:35,200
Speaker 1: you picked them up from school, they have a play date,

819
00:41:35,200 --> 00:41:38,160
Speaker 1: then they have an activity. It's like unbelievable amounts of

820
00:41:38,239 --> 00:41:42,120
Speaker 1: shipped to do. And I just feel like my most

821
00:41:42,160 --> 00:41:44,840
Speaker 1: of my memories from my childhood was being really bored

822
00:41:44,880 --> 00:41:47,000
Speaker 1: and not being allowed to watch TV, but then being

823
00:41:47,000 --> 00:41:50,000
Speaker 1: able to turn my like bird bath in the front

824
00:41:50,040 --> 00:41:52,440
Speaker 1: yard into like a witch's cauldron, and all of a sudden,

825
00:41:52,440 --> 00:41:54,360
Speaker 1: I'm getting dressed up in all this stuff where I

826
00:41:54,400 --> 00:41:57,279
Speaker 1: had a chalkboard downstairs which was like endless amounts of

827
00:41:57,280 --> 00:41:59,880
Speaker 1: hours of playing teacher and all of these things, and

828
00:42:00,040 --> 00:42:05,120
Speaker 1: I feel like boredom is a really important thing, um

829
00:42:05,160 --> 00:42:08,640
Speaker 1: and also very beneficial to parents because sometimes I'm just like,

830
00:42:08,760 --> 00:42:11,600
Speaker 1: just go play, Like like I don't, I don't have

831
00:42:11,640 --> 00:42:13,560
Speaker 1: to put out, you know, right now in quarantine, all

832
00:42:13,600 --> 00:42:16,320
Speaker 1: I see on Instagram is eight thousand activities. I'm supposed

833
00:42:16,360 --> 00:42:18,239
Speaker 1: to be cutting and gluing for my child, and I

834
00:42:18,320 --> 00:42:21,239
Speaker 1: just don't have the energy to do it. So talk

835
00:42:21,280 --> 00:42:24,960
Speaker 1: to me about boredom. Boredom is not only a normal

836
00:42:25,120 --> 00:42:27,319
Speaker 1: part of life, like no matter what age you are,

837
00:42:27,760 --> 00:42:31,759
Speaker 1: but it is a necessity. It has benefits, and it's

838
00:42:31,800 --> 00:42:35,000
Speaker 1: something that we all have to learn how to make

839
00:42:35,160 --> 00:42:38,080
Speaker 1: use of. And I think that anyone when you really

840
00:42:38,120 --> 00:42:40,960
Speaker 1: think about it, you realize why this is even though

841
00:42:41,400 --> 00:42:45,000
Speaker 1: the impetus for most parents is too when you see

842
00:42:45,000 --> 00:42:47,200
Speaker 1: a child who's not occupied, is to kind of maximize

843
00:42:47,239 --> 00:42:49,520
Speaker 1: the moment, like, oh we should do an art project,

844
00:42:49,600 --> 00:42:51,640
Speaker 1: or like what you know, what are you up to?

845
00:42:51,760 --> 00:42:55,240
Speaker 1: What are you thinking? Trying to somehow get your child

846
00:42:55,360 --> 00:42:57,719
Speaker 1: kind of optimize that moment or you know, maybe they're

847
00:42:57,800 --> 00:43:02,080
Speaker 1: under stimulated, when in fact, when kids are bored, right,

848
00:43:02,480 --> 00:43:05,520
Speaker 1: that's when they have to figure it out for themselves.

849
00:43:06,000 --> 00:43:09,680
Speaker 1: That's how kids become resourceful, That's how they become, as

850
00:43:09,719 --> 00:43:14,200
Speaker 1: you said earlier, imaginative, like that's where make believe comes from.

851
00:43:14,360 --> 00:43:17,120
Speaker 1: When I was growing up, one of the most often

852
00:43:18,040 --> 00:43:21,799
Speaker 1: spoken phrases from my mother was if I said I

853
00:43:21,840 --> 00:43:25,680
Speaker 1: was bored, she would say, then go outside. Now for me,

854
00:43:26,080 --> 00:43:28,719
Speaker 1: that was like the most punitive things she could have said,

855
00:43:28,760 --> 00:43:32,880
Speaker 1: because I was not an outdoorsy, sporty girl. So if

856
00:43:32,920 --> 00:43:36,040
Speaker 1: the punishment, if the alternative was going outside, and then

857
00:43:36,080 --> 00:43:38,080
Speaker 1: I really had to figure out something else to do.

858
00:43:38,360 --> 00:43:40,520
Speaker 1: And this actually ties to what we were talking about earlier,

859
00:43:40,520 --> 00:43:42,919
Speaker 1: which is reading. My solution was to go and to read,

860
00:43:43,400 --> 00:43:46,920
Speaker 1: or to write stories, or to draw very bad, un artistic,

861
00:43:47,640 --> 00:43:50,879
Speaker 1: untalented pictures. But I was at least doing it. Um.

862
00:43:51,280 --> 00:43:53,400
Speaker 1: You had to kind of make do. When I was

863
00:43:53,440 --> 00:43:55,359
Speaker 1: growing up, we had this room in my house called

864
00:43:55,360 --> 00:43:57,840
Speaker 1: the sun Room, UM, which I think was just because

865
00:43:57,880 --> 00:43:59,680
Speaker 1: it was I think, you know, had been like a

866
00:43:59,760 --> 00:44:02,400
Speaker 1: terror us that was windowed in at some point and

867
00:44:02,520 --> 00:44:06,520
Speaker 1: into it my sharans through like broken pieces of furniture,

868
00:44:06,760 --> 00:44:10,000
Speaker 1: you know, old appliances, just like random bits of crap

869
00:44:10,040 --> 00:44:13,279
Speaker 1: from around the house, like in complete sets, and my

870
00:44:13,360 --> 00:44:15,120
Speaker 1: brothers and I would go in there and we would

871
00:44:15,120 --> 00:44:18,600
Speaker 1: just make things now what we did not always safe,

872
00:44:18,680 --> 00:44:21,239
Speaker 1: Like I remember we used to play a game called

873
00:44:21,320 --> 00:44:24,600
Speaker 1: jump the Roof where we would pile everything up into

874
00:44:24,680 --> 00:44:26,880
Speaker 1: like as tall a pile as we could and sometimes

875
00:44:26,920 --> 00:44:28,960
Speaker 1: put the cat in, you know, at the very bottom,

876
00:44:29,200 --> 00:44:32,040
Speaker 1: and then we would find somewhere very high and leap

877
00:44:32,200 --> 00:44:34,520
Speaker 1: on to the top of the pile of broken stuff

878
00:44:34,560 --> 00:44:36,560
Speaker 1: and you know, fall to the ground. So but that's

879
00:44:36,560 --> 00:44:40,440
Speaker 1: what kids did back before they sort of had, you know,

880
00:44:41,080 --> 00:44:44,960
Speaker 1: something often a device at the ready that could constantly

881
00:44:45,160 --> 00:44:48,000
Speaker 1: entertain them. You know, you just kind of did what

882
00:44:48,080 --> 00:44:49,880
Speaker 1: you had to do. And when you read. I love

883
00:44:49,920 --> 00:44:53,319
Speaker 1: reading memoirs as an adult, um, and I loved reading

884
00:44:53,320 --> 00:44:55,279
Speaker 1: them as a child to to read biographies to kind

885
00:44:55,280 --> 00:44:57,520
Speaker 1: of for me, they were like life lessons, like this

886
00:44:57,680 --> 00:44:59,279
Speaker 1: is how it's done, you know, like you want to

887
00:44:59,320 --> 00:45:02,480
Speaker 1: become you know, Dolly Madison that was all that was

888
00:45:02,520 --> 00:45:05,239
Speaker 1: available for girls back then, or color color or you

889
00:45:05,239 --> 00:45:09,080
Speaker 1: know one of these that's what you or Florence Nightingale. Um,

890
00:45:09,320 --> 00:45:11,520
Speaker 1: you follow these steps, and that's how I read them.

891
00:45:11,520 --> 00:45:14,520
Speaker 1: But I often like reading memoirs of an earlier age

892
00:45:14,560 --> 00:45:18,120
Speaker 1: because you realized, like it was boring, Oh is it boring?

893
00:45:18,239 --> 00:45:21,440
Speaker 1: Like you read books about like people um in the

894
00:45:21,560 --> 00:45:25,160
Speaker 1: early twentieth century and the nineteenth century to go for

895
00:45:25,239 --> 00:45:29,040
Speaker 1: a car ride, like in a car that was going god, huge, huge,

896
00:45:29,239 --> 00:45:31,680
Speaker 1: fifteen miles an hour, just looking at the trees, or

897
00:45:31,719 --> 00:45:34,040
Speaker 1: like you watch those you know, movies like Room with

898
00:45:34,080 --> 00:45:36,359
Speaker 1: the View, any of the nineteenth century movies, and they're

899
00:45:36,360 --> 00:45:39,959
Speaker 1: just walking around because that was entertainment. Like people learned

900
00:45:39,960 --> 00:45:42,440
Speaker 1: to play the piano because that's what you had for music.

901
00:45:42,480 --> 00:45:46,040
Speaker 1: You didn't have Spotify, So it was like the onus

902
00:45:46,040 --> 00:45:49,560
Speaker 1: becomes on you to create the entertainment. If you don't

903
00:45:49,600 --> 00:45:52,680
Speaker 1: have something from outside that's that's always stimulating you and

904
00:45:52,719 --> 00:45:55,719
Speaker 1: sort of prompting you to respond. You become the generator

905
00:45:57,120 --> 00:46:01,480
Speaker 1: so important. It's just so important. And I think, you know,

906
00:46:01,880 --> 00:46:05,799
Speaker 1: I hope that that provides moms during this time with

907
00:46:05,920 --> 00:46:10,520
Speaker 1: some you know, when we first went into quarantine about

908
00:46:10,520 --> 00:46:13,759
Speaker 1: a month ago. You know, I I generally I am

909
00:46:13,760 --> 00:46:15,680
Speaker 1: not a big TV watcher with my kid, and I

910
00:46:15,719 --> 00:46:19,280
Speaker 1: really let up on those rules. It's okay at the beginning,

911
00:46:19,280 --> 00:46:21,000
Speaker 1: which is okay, but then I have to say, I've

912
00:46:21,040 --> 00:46:24,080
Speaker 1: been doing this experiment this week where I said, Adam,

913
00:46:24,120 --> 00:46:27,359
Speaker 1: you know what, let's like, let's just like let him

914
00:46:27,400 --> 00:46:30,720
Speaker 1: be bored and like in the house. Like I mean again,

915
00:46:31,239 --> 00:46:34,040
Speaker 1: I can do this right now because I didn't have

916
00:46:34,080 --> 00:46:36,280
Speaker 1: a very heavy work week. If you have a freaking

917
00:46:36,280 --> 00:46:38,319
Speaker 1: heavy work week and you're losing your mind, the kid

918
00:46:38,360 --> 00:46:39,840
Speaker 1: can watch it. I don't care, you know what I mean, Like,

919
00:46:39,920 --> 00:46:41,880
Speaker 1: whatever anyone has to do to survive and be happy

920
00:46:41,880 --> 00:46:43,799
Speaker 1: and feel loved is the only thing that matters. But

921
00:46:44,520 --> 00:46:46,440
Speaker 1: but this week I was like, let's just do a

922
00:46:46,440 --> 00:46:49,040
Speaker 1: few days with like him. He just isn't gonna watch TV,

923
00:46:49,200 --> 00:46:52,200
Speaker 1: and he's been really bored and it's been so fascinating

924
00:46:52,239 --> 00:46:55,960
Speaker 1: to watch what he's doing. Yeah, I mean it's like

925
00:46:56,000 --> 00:46:58,880
Speaker 1: you see you see again your child like making the

926
00:46:58,960 --> 00:47:01,680
Speaker 1: choices for himself, figuring out what it is that he's

927
00:47:01,719 --> 00:47:06,600
Speaker 1: going to do, like imaginative play that's not directed. Right,

928
00:47:06,760 --> 00:47:08,839
Speaker 1: all you need to do is provide like a few things.

929
00:47:09,040 --> 00:47:11,400
Speaker 1: I mean, one of the great things about and now

930
00:47:11,400 --> 00:47:13,720
Speaker 1: I'm going back to screens but you know Toy Story

931
00:47:13,760 --> 00:47:16,319
Speaker 1: four where they had um the great you know four

932
00:47:16,440 --> 00:47:19,440
Speaker 1: key toy, Like anything can be a toy, right, anything

933
00:47:19,440 --> 00:47:21,400
Speaker 1: can be a toy. It's all in the eye of

934
00:47:21,400 --> 00:47:23,680
Speaker 1: the beholder. And so you don't even have to have

935
00:47:23,719 --> 00:47:26,200
Speaker 1: a lot of stuff around. Like kids will make something

936
00:47:26,680 --> 00:47:29,480
Speaker 1: into a toy. That's what they did before we had

937
00:47:29,560 --> 00:47:32,719
Speaker 1: lots of plastic toys to provide them. They made their

938
00:47:32,719 --> 00:47:37,600
Speaker 1: own toys, so they saw toys and things that weren't toys. Um.

939
00:47:37,640 --> 00:47:41,919
Speaker 1: Any final advice for parents, any last things? You feel

940
00:47:41,960 --> 00:47:44,120
Speaker 1: like we didn't touch on or hit on or I

941
00:47:44,160 --> 00:47:46,360
Speaker 1: mean I feel like I could talk to you for

942
00:47:46,360 --> 00:47:48,680
Speaker 1: a hundred thousand hours and this is so helpful and

943
00:47:48,920 --> 00:47:52,719
Speaker 1: so informative, and I just think you are doing such

944
00:47:52,760 --> 00:47:57,560
Speaker 1: important work. Pamela, truly thanks. Here's my parting words, which

945
00:47:57,600 --> 00:47:59,400
Speaker 1: are that you know, it goes back to that reading

946
00:47:59,480 --> 00:48:02,040
Speaker 1: is the verbal word. Don't reward reading, because reading is

947
00:48:02,040 --> 00:48:06,720
Speaker 1: the reward. All the stress that parents feel around raising readers,

948
00:48:06,960 --> 00:48:11,919
Speaker 1: around um, you know, raising their children to be productive,

949
00:48:12,560 --> 00:48:17,520
Speaker 1: successful whatever that might be fulfilled people. You know, we all,

950
00:48:18,719 --> 00:48:23,600
Speaker 1: I think, are motivated by truly understandable circumstances. We have

951
00:48:24,160 --> 00:48:27,560
Speaker 1: a lot of economic uncertainty. People know, it's a competitive world.

952
00:48:27,680 --> 00:48:30,440
Speaker 1: It's hard to get into a good college. Some kids

953
00:48:30,480 --> 00:48:33,319
Speaker 1: just sort of lose their motivation. So we are so

954
00:48:33,400 --> 00:48:36,719
Speaker 1: eager to kind of plant everything into our child that

955
00:48:36,760 --> 00:48:39,759
Speaker 1: will lead them towards success whatever that might look like

956
00:48:40,280 --> 00:48:42,640
Speaker 1: that we forget to kind of take pleasure in it.

957
00:48:43,040 --> 00:48:46,200
Speaker 1: And so specifically with books, I would say, you know,

958
00:48:46,400 --> 00:48:50,040
Speaker 1: this is the fun part. This is you are introducing

959
00:48:50,120 --> 00:48:54,520
Speaker 1: your children to something great. This is not broccoli, this

960
00:48:54,560 --> 00:48:58,040
Speaker 1: is chocolate cake. You are opening up a world of

961
00:48:58,200 --> 00:49:03,520
Speaker 1: like stories and a mad genation and possibilities and characters.

962
00:49:03,880 --> 00:49:06,560
Speaker 1: You know, when I think about myself as a reader

963
00:49:06,560 --> 00:49:08,800
Speaker 1: and what it is that I look for in books,

964
00:49:09,239 --> 00:49:13,920
Speaker 1: I look to be transported. I look to gain access

965
00:49:14,280 --> 00:49:18,080
Speaker 1: to a world that I would otherwise never have access to,

966
00:49:18,680 --> 00:49:22,960
Speaker 1: whether that's living on Mars or being a coal miner

967
00:49:23,000 --> 00:49:27,759
Speaker 1: in nineteenth century France, or being it's always a British queen.

968
00:49:27,800 --> 00:49:29,640
Speaker 1: For me, it's always a British queen. Might not be

969
00:49:29,680 --> 00:49:31,880
Speaker 1: a British queen, even a British lady in waiting, Like

970
00:49:32,200 --> 00:49:34,160
Speaker 1: you know, any of that, that's your chance. I mean,

971
00:49:34,200 --> 00:49:35,680
Speaker 1: that's what you do as an actor, right, You get

972
00:49:35,719 --> 00:49:39,279
Speaker 1: to inhabit another person, You get to be in a

973
00:49:39,320 --> 00:49:42,000
Speaker 1: different world, You get to actually like it's a whole

974
00:49:42,040 --> 00:49:44,759
Speaker 1: new story that's opened to you. And so I would

975
00:49:44,760 --> 00:49:48,680
Speaker 1: say to parents, like, remember, like you are you are

976
00:49:48,719 --> 00:49:51,839
Speaker 1: opening up a portal to magic for your children. You

977
00:49:51,880 --> 00:49:56,040
Speaker 1: are offering them away to to empathize, to see the

978
00:49:56,080 --> 00:50:00,400
Speaker 1: world through others eyes, to no worlds that don't exist

979
00:50:00,640 --> 00:50:04,479
Speaker 1: or that once existed or will never exist. And so

980
00:50:04,880 --> 00:50:07,400
Speaker 1: you're doing something great for your children. And if you

981
00:50:07,480 --> 00:50:11,120
Speaker 1: remember that that mission and that sense of enthusiasm, that

982
00:50:11,200 --> 00:50:14,920
Speaker 1: will come through as opposed to, you know, feelings of

983
00:50:15,000 --> 00:50:18,920
Speaker 1: obligation and stress and pressure and like they don't need

984
00:50:18,960 --> 00:50:20,480
Speaker 1: to they don't need any of that. They're going to

985
00:50:20,560 --> 00:50:23,279
Speaker 1: get that from the outside world from you. When it

986
00:50:23,320 --> 00:50:26,799
Speaker 1: comes to books, You're taking them to Disneyland. You know,

987
00:50:26,960 --> 00:50:31,160
Speaker 1: you are giving them the magic key. This is so wonderful.

988
00:50:32,080 --> 00:50:34,720
Speaker 1: Thank you so much, Pamela for being on Katie's Crib.

989
00:50:35,160 --> 00:50:37,160
Speaker 1: Thank you for all of your words of wisdom. I

990
00:50:37,200 --> 00:50:40,400
Speaker 1: can't wait to jump back into the book I'm currently reading.

991
00:50:40,960 --> 00:50:44,480
Speaker 1: Um uh, this is awesome. Thank you so much for

992
00:50:44,520 --> 00:50:47,120
Speaker 1: being on Katie's Crib. Pamela. It was a total pleasure.

993
00:50:47,200 --> 00:50:50,440
Speaker 1: Thanks for having me. Thank you guys so much for

994
00:50:50,520 --> 00:50:53,400
Speaker 1: listening to that awesome episode with Pamela. I learned so

995
00:50:53,520 --> 00:50:55,319
Speaker 1: much and it makes me just want to jump back

996
00:50:55,320 --> 00:50:57,520
Speaker 1: in my bed and read more of my book and

997
00:50:57,600 --> 00:51:00,600
Speaker 1: hate what books are you currently reading to your kids?

998
00:51:00,640 --> 00:51:03,120
Speaker 1: Are there any huge faiths that I got to know about.

999
00:51:03,480 --> 00:51:06,160
Speaker 1: You can tell me by telling us on our socials

1000
00:51:06,239 --> 00:51:09,720
Speaker 1: or subscribing and following us at Katie's Crib or email

1001
00:51:09,760 --> 00:51:13,120
Speaker 1: me book ideas at Katie's Crib and Shonda land dot com.

1002
00:51:13,160 --> 00:51:21,880
Speaker 1: You all are awesome. Katie's Crib is a production of

1003
00:51:21,880 --> 00:51:25,160
Speaker 1: iHeart Radio and Shonda land Audio. For more podcasts from

1004
00:51:25,160 --> 00:51:28,400
Speaker 1: I Heart Radio, visit the I heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,

1005
00:51:28,480 --> 00:51:32,040
Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. Coming for

1006
00:51:32,320 --> 00:51:37,319
Speaker 1: podcast I want you to Watch Watch