1 00:00:00,440 --> 00:00:04,080 Speaker 1: Welcome to River Cafe Table four, a production of iHeartRadio 2 00:00:04,160 --> 00:00:05,800 Speaker 1: and Adami Studios. 3 00:00:06,240 --> 00:00:09,000 Speaker 2: I'm sorry, I think I'm going to sneeze. 4 00:00:09,840 --> 00:00:11,600 Speaker 3: This is River Cafe Table four. 5 00:00:12,160 --> 00:00:15,720 Speaker 2: I always managed to sneeze, like on telephone calls. 6 00:00:16,320 --> 00:00:18,239 Speaker 4: With me Ruthie Rogers. 7 00:00:18,320 --> 00:00:21,120 Speaker 2: I don't think I've ever sneezed on a podcast. 8 00:00:23,040 --> 00:00:25,720 Speaker 3: On River Cafe Table four. I talked to friends who 9 00:00:25,760 --> 00:00:30,000 Speaker 3: know the River Cafe well about food, the food they cook, 10 00:00:30,640 --> 00:00:33,640 Speaker 3: the food they eat, the food of their memories. 11 00:00:36,200 --> 00:00:37,320 Speaker 2: Do you know what I feel? 12 00:00:37,360 --> 00:00:40,800 Speaker 3: It receding, Oh no, I wanted to hear Paul McCartney sneeze. 13 00:00:40,840 --> 00:00:43,120 Speaker 2: That would have been don't worry, it may come, and 14 00:00:43,200 --> 00:00:45,519 Speaker 2: when it comes, I can do up to nine. I 15 00:00:45,680 --> 00:00:47,040 Speaker 2: warn you for me. 16 00:00:47,479 --> 00:00:51,040 Speaker 3: Paul is not just a great musician, but a great 17 00:00:51,240 --> 00:00:54,840 Speaker 3: lover of food. And one of my favorite possessions is 18 00:00:54,880 --> 00:00:58,360 Speaker 3: a photograph that Paul recently sent me of him and 19 00:00:58,400 --> 00:01:02,440 Speaker 3: his grandson with a plate of tomato pasta they had 20 00:01:02,680 --> 00:01:03,360 Speaker 3: just cooked. 21 00:01:03,720 --> 00:01:05,600 Speaker 4: They were both so proud. 22 00:01:07,400 --> 00:01:12,240 Speaker 2: Cooking in Liverpool in my working class family was very 23 00:01:12,360 --> 00:01:17,200 Speaker 2: much how everyone else ate, so there was not much variety, 24 00:01:17,319 --> 00:01:19,480 Speaker 2: and it was only when I came down to London 25 00:01:19,680 --> 00:01:23,320 Speaker 2: when the Beatles came down here to make records and 26 00:01:23,360 --> 00:01:27,200 Speaker 2: eventually to live down here. That you would go to 27 00:01:27,400 --> 00:01:33,520 Speaker 2: fine restaurants and try and navigate your way through the menu. 28 00:01:34,400 --> 00:01:38,800 Speaker 2: The eating was pretty much fuel until I got down 29 00:01:39,360 --> 00:01:44,000 Speaker 2: to London. I mean, for instance, I hated wine because well, 30 00:01:44,040 --> 00:01:46,160 Speaker 2: we never had it. I mean, the nearest we came 31 00:01:46,240 --> 00:01:49,919 Speaker 2: to alcoholic beverages was when we were a little older 32 00:01:49,960 --> 00:01:53,080 Speaker 2: on a Sunday with the Sunday lunch, we would have 33 00:01:53,560 --> 00:01:56,880 Speaker 2: a glass of cider. That was it. But whenever I 34 00:01:57,000 --> 00:02:02,960 Speaker 2: tasted wine, I hated it. And I hitchhiked to Paris. 35 00:02:03,440 --> 00:02:07,960 Speaker 2: He got given a fabulous birthday present by his rich 36 00:02:08,040 --> 00:02:11,560 Speaker 2: relatives in Scotland, and one of them gave him one 37 00:02:11,639 --> 00:02:15,160 Speaker 2: hundred pounds for his birthday. You know. I mean, I 38 00:02:15,240 --> 00:02:17,160 Speaker 2: still think that's a reasonable gift. 39 00:02:17,320 --> 00:02:20,040 Speaker 4: It's very reasonable, one hundred quid. 40 00:02:20,639 --> 00:02:25,000 Speaker 2: I have it anyway, So we hitchhiked to Paris, and 41 00:02:25,040 --> 00:02:27,480 Speaker 2: then we used the money to get food and stuff, 42 00:02:28,000 --> 00:02:30,880 Speaker 2: and we thought, oh, we've got to have a wine experience. 43 00:02:30,960 --> 00:02:34,000 Speaker 2: We're in France, you know. So we went into a 44 00:02:34,040 --> 00:02:37,840 Speaker 2: cafe corner cafe, and we sort of sidled up to 45 00:02:37,919 --> 00:02:45,040 Speaker 2: the bar and said, do van ordinaire ciavou Play, and 46 00:02:45,160 --> 00:02:49,679 Speaker 2: she gave us two glasses of red wine and we 47 00:02:49,880 --> 00:02:54,000 Speaker 2: took a sip and thought, oh, that is terrible. It's 48 00:02:54,040 --> 00:02:57,120 Speaker 2: like vinegar. God, I don't know what the fuss is 49 00:02:57,160 --> 00:02:59,920 Speaker 2: about all these people going on about wine. They're crazy, 50 00:03:00,080 --> 00:03:03,919 Speaker 2: We're saying. So. We never liked wine till we got 51 00:03:03,919 --> 00:03:07,480 Speaker 2: down to London. And the first time I ever remember 52 00:03:07,680 --> 00:03:12,000 Speaker 2: really liking wine it was with George Martin. My girlfriend 53 00:03:12,040 --> 00:03:14,920 Speaker 2: at the time was Jane Asher, and Jane and I 54 00:03:15,000 --> 00:03:19,080 Speaker 2: went out with George and his wife, Judy, and we 55 00:03:19,160 --> 00:03:22,720 Speaker 2: went to a little restaurant in Charlotte Street called Latroale. 56 00:03:23,919 --> 00:03:25,639 Speaker 4: I probably never remember that. 57 00:03:25,880 --> 00:03:29,600 Speaker 2: Yeah, I was treating so the way to the wine waiter, 58 00:03:29,639 --> 00:03:32,800 Speaker 2: Somelia came up to me and said, would you like 59 00:03:32,800 --> 00:03:35,760 Speaker 2: a wine? Sir? He leaned in all very intimate, and 60 00:03:35,840 --> 00:03:38,920 Speaker 2: I sort of equally whispering. I said, I'd like you 61 00:03:38,960 --> 00:03:41,280 Speaker 2: to recommend to me. I don't know much about wine. 62 00:03:41,480 --> 00:03:43,560 Speaker 2: Said oh, yes, sir, thank you very much, leave it 63 00:03:43,600 --> 00:03:46,920 Speaker 2: to me, and then he brought back a bottle of 64 00:03:47,800 --> 00:03:55,520 Speaker 2: Louis Latour's court Aunt Graci nineteen fifty nine, and I 65 00:03:55,600 --> 00:03:59,160 Speaker 2: took a taste of it. Oh, it was like velvet, 66 00:03:59,400 --> 00:04:01,760 Speaker 2: was it. I thought, now I get it, and I 67 00:04:01,880 --> 00:04:04,760 Speaker 2: see why people go crazy about one. And it was 68 00:04:04,800 --> 00:04:08,520 Speaker 2: funny because years after that, I thought, Okay, got on 69 00:04:08,600 --> 00:04:11,800 Speaker 2: grant Sye nineteen fifty nine. That's the wine I've got 70 00:04:11,800 --> 00:04:14,840 Speaker 2: to order. And then years later I thought it was 71 00:04:14,880 --> 00:04:18,160 Speaker 2: not quite as good as the one I had, and 72 00:04:18,240 --> 00:04:21,919 Speaker 2: I realized that I was now ordering the fifty nine 73 00:04:22,360 --> 00:04:25,560 Speaker 2: and this was now ten twenty years later, whereas he 74 00:04:25,720 --> 00:04:28,800 Speaker 2: was serving it at five years. Yeah, it took a 75 00:04:28,800 --> 00:04:30,400 Speaker 2: little while for that penny to drop. 76 00:04:33,760 --> 00:04:38,120 Speaker 3: This is River Cafe Table four. In each episode, my 77 00:04:38,200 --> 00:04:41,479 Speaker 3: guess reads a recipe they've chosen from one of our cookbooks. 78 00:04:43,200 --> 00:04:46,240 Speaker 2: And this is the recipe for roast aubergine. So the 79 00:04:46,320 --> 00:04:50,960 Speaker 2: Americans call eggplant. For any Americans listening, okay, So you 80 00:04:51,080 --> 00:04:56,960 Speaker 2: take two aubergines cut into two centimeter thick slices, eight 81 00:04:57,320 --> 00:05:02,000 Speaker 2: ripe plum tomatoes cut in haw then one hundred grams 82 00:05:02,360 --> 00:05:09,360 Speaker 2: of parmesan grated, two tablespoons of basil leaves torn into 83 00:05:09,360 --> 00:05:14,920 Speaker 2: small pieces, extra virgin olive oil. You place the aubergine 84 00:05:15,440 --> 00:05:19,520 Speaker 2: in a colander and sprinkle with sea salt. Leave for 85 00:05:19,600 --> 00:05:24,039 Speaker 2: half an hour. The pat dry preheat the oven to 86 00:05:24,120 --> 00:05:29,360 Speaker 2: two hundred degrees celsius. Squeeze the juice from the tomatoes 87 00:05:29,640 --> 00:05:33,599 Speaker 2: and chop into small pieces. Place the tomatoes in a bowl, 88 00:05:33,880 --> 00:05:37,080 Speaker 2: season well with salt and pepper and tossed with a 89 00:05:37,120 --> 00:05:42,839 Speaker 2: tablespoonful of olive oil. Then stare in the parmesan and basil. 90 00:05:43,640 --> 00:05:47,839 Speaker 2: Brush an ovenproof dish with olive oil. Place the aubergine 91 00:05:47,880 --> 00:05:52,080 Speaker 2: slices on the dish, brush with olive oil and season. 92 00:05:53,000 --> 00:05:57,000 Speaker 2: Bake for fifteen minutes, then turn them over and spoon 93 00:05:57,080 --> 00:06:01,159 Speaker 2: the tomato mixture on top. Return into the oven for 94 00:06:01,200 --> 00:06:08,120 Speaker 2: five minutes. Serve warm, or they're also delicious at room temperature. 95 00:06:10,080 --> 00:06:15,040 Speaker 4: Thank you, beautiful. Why did you choose this recipe? 96 00:06:15,080 --> 00:06:19,760 Speaker 2: It's just one of my favorite dishes. Being vegetarian. In 97 00:06:19,880 --> 00:06:24,960 Speaker 2: some restaurants, there's limited options. Not in the River Cafe, 98 00:06:25,560 --> 00:06:29,520 Speaker 2: but you know certain restaurants it's a bit limited, but 99 00:06:29,720 --> 00:06:33,960 Speaker 2: they often have an eggplant or aubergin parmesan. So I 100 00:06:34,000 --> 00:06:36,719 Speaker 2: will go for that, and I love it and I 101 00:06:36,760 --> 00:06:39,839 Speaker 2: eat it at home. It's just a great dish. It's 102 00:06:40,040 --> 00:06:41,719 Speaker 2: comforting when. 103 00:06:41,600 --> 00:06:43,440 Speaker 4: You were growing up where they have a lot of 104 00:06:43,520 --> 00:06:44,800 Speaker 4: variety vegetables. 105 00:06:44,839 --> 00:06:47,240 Speaker 3: Did you come across are we going to call them 106 00:06:47,240 --> 00:06:49,040 Speaker 3: eggplant in this conversation? 107 00:06:49,120 --> 00:06:49,440 Speaker 4: I should? 108 00:06:49,920 --> 00:06:52,960 Speaker 3: So many words aren't there for this vegetable. I remember 109 00:06:52,960 --> 00:06:54,640 Speaker 3: when I first came to London. I went into a 110 00:06:54,680 --> 00:06:57,960 Speaker 3: green grocer and I asked for eggplant and he brought 111 00:06:58,000 --> 00:07:00,000 Speaker 3: me out eggs, and then I said, no, I don't 112 00:07:00,040 --> 00:07:02,080 Speaker 3: on eggs, and he brought me out a plant, you know, 113 00:07:02,400 --> 00:07:04,520 Speaker 3: And then I realized that they called them by the 114 00:07:04,520 --> 00:07:07,560 Speaker 3: French name Aubergean's, and then an Italian it smelon sata. 115 00:07:07,760 --> 00:07:09,160 Speaker 4: How do you want to refer to them? 116 00:07:09,320 --> 00:07:11,680 Speaker 2: Let's do aberging because that's what I let's do. 117 00:07:11,760 --> 00:07:15,200 Speaker 3: Okay, So tell me about Aberjean's in Liverpool. 118 00:07:15,440 --> 00:07:18,320 Speaker 2: You didn't get them. I've never heard of them till 119 00:07:18,360 --> 00:07:22,760 Speaker 2: I came down to London. Really yeah, I mean vegetables 120 00:07:22,960 --> 00:07:28,520 Speaker 2: would be potatoes, yeah, carrots, onion, and then you would 121 00:07:28,600 --> 00:07:32,840 Speaker 2: get broad beans, which we call butter beans. I like 122 00:07:32,960 --> 00:07:36,640 Speaker 2: them to this day. I like a nice butter bean soup. 123 00:07:37,160 --> 00:07:39,800 Speaker 2: So yeah, but it was very limited, and that would 124 00:07:39,800 --> 00:07:43,360 Speaker 2: be with a piece of meat. It was a pretty 125 00:07:43,400 --> 00:07:45,400 Speaker 2: bland menu that we had. 126 00:07:45,640 --> 00:07:47,080 Speaker 4: Who did the cooking in your house? 127 00:07:47,280 --> 00:07:47,760 Speaker 2: My mom? 128 00:07:47,880 --> 00:07:49,920 Speaker 4: Tell me about your mom? Did she like cooking? 129 00:07:49,960 --> 00:07:51,760 Speaker 3: Do you think or did she see it as a 130 00:07:51,880 --> 00:07:53,200 Speaker 3: duty to do she did. 131 00:07:53,240 --> 00:07:55,720 Speaker 2: She have a job she did. She was a nurse, 132 00:07:56,320 --> 00:07:59,520 Speaker 2: so she worked full on. Then she became a sister 133 00:07:59,640 --> 00:08:03,320 Speaker 2: on the word, and then eventually she became a midwife. 134 00:08:04,080 --> 00:08:07,760 Speaker 2: So she was hard working. I think she enjoyed cooking. 135 00:08:07,840 --> 00:08:10,640 Speaker 2: But I'm sure there was a little bit of providing 136 00:08:10,680 --> 00:08:13,200 Speaker 2: for your family in there, you know, because in those 137 00:08:13,320 --> 00:08:16,360 Speaker 2: days there was no question about it. Really it was 138 00:08:16,920 --> 00:08:20,000 Speaker 2: the woman's role. I would do a little bit myself 139 00:08:20,080 --> 00:08:24,720 Speaker 2: sometimes because my mom unfortunately died when I was fourteen, 140 00:08:25,280 --> 00:08:28,280 Speaker 2: so there was my dad and me and my younger 141 00:08:28,320 --> 00:08:33,520 Speaker 2: brother left to look after ourselves. Sometimes I'd get home 142 00:08:33,960 --> 00:08:37,880 Speaker 2: from school before my dad would from work, and I'd 143 00:08:37,960 --> 00:08:39,920 Speaker 2: have to knock up a little bit of a meal. 144 00:08:40,640 --> 00:08:42,760 Speaker 2: I became very good at mashed potatoes. 145 00:08:43,320 --> 00:08:44,840 Speaker 4: What was your technique do you remember? 146 00:08:45,120 --> 00:08:48,840 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean these days it's probably like over the 147 00:08:48,880 --> 00:08:51,920 Speaker 2: top and would need to be a little bit health aarized. 148 00:08:52,559 --> 00:08:57,000 Speaker 2: But then I would mash them normally with a fork 149 00:08:57,559 --> 00:09:00,520 Speaker 2: so we didn't have many cooking implements, and mashed them 150 00:09:00,559 --> 00:09:02,720 Speaker 2: up till I got all the lumps out. And I 151 00:09:02,840 --> 00:09:06,840 Speaker 2: was very keen on that. Then I would pile in. 152 00:09:07,520 --> 00:09:11,000 Speaker 4: A lot of butter, yea delicious. 153 00:09:14,080 --> 00:09:18,560 Speaker 2: A little bit of milk, and then whip that little 154 00:09:18,640 --> 00:09:21,760 Speaker 2: soccer up. And then sometimes if I was trying to 155 00:09:21,800 --> 00:09:26,240 Speaker 2: be exotic, I'd put some finely chopped onions raw, which 156 00:09:26,280 --> 00:09:26,960 Speaker 2: is kind of nice. 157 00:09:27,160 --> 00:09:29,880 Speaker 3: I'd say that that is a very sophisticated way. I 158 00:09:29,880 --> 00:09:32,400 Speaker 3: mean that is, we always say that mashed potatoes and 159 00:09:32,440 --> 00:09:36,240 Speaker 3: France are really butter with potatoes. You know, did your 160 00:09:36,240 --> 00:09:38,800 Speaker 3: mother teach you how to do that or was it instinctive? 161 00:09:38,920 --> 00:09:42,080 Speaker 2: I think I probably just watched her do it. So 162 00:09:42,160 --> 00:09:45,040 Speaker 2: I would make that, and then my dad would leave 163 00:09:45,160 --> 00:09:49,600 Speaker 2: either some sausages or chops to go with it. That 164 00:09:49,760 --> 00:09:52,400 Speaker 2: was basically it. But yeah, you know, my mum was 165 00:09:52,400 --> 00:09:56,640 Speaker 2: a proper cook. The only time I really couldn't eat 166 00:09:56,800 --> 00:10:00,720 Speaker 2: what she had cooked and what she'd offered on the 167 00:10:00,800 --> 00:10:04,840 Speaker 2: table on a plate, there was a tongue, and I 168 00:10:05,080 --> 00:10:08,520 Speaker 2: did not like the look of this bloody grate cow's tongue. 169 00:10:09,240 --> 00:10:12,319 Speaker 2: I was not persuaded to eat that. I'm afraid. 170 00:10:12,800 --> 00:10:14,600 Speaker 3: When you said that your dad would leave you the 171 00:10:14,600 --> 00:10:17,000 Speaker 3: sausages of the pork so he would do the shopping. 172 00:10:17,240 --> 00:10:19,000 Speaker 3: Did he have a night job, would he come home 173 00:10:19,040 --> 00:10:19,439 Speaker 3: for dinner. 174 00:10:19,559 --> 00:10:19,640 Speaker 5: No. 175 00:10:19,800 --> 00:10:23,079 Speaker 2: He was a cotton salesman, so he worked just during 176 00:10:23,080 --> 00:10:25,880 Speaker 2: the day. He would leave roughly the same time as 177 00:10:26,040 --> 00:10:29,760 Speaker 2: we left for school, so he would sell cotton it 178 00:10:29,760 --> 00:10:32,040 Speaker 2: came in from the port and then he would sell 179 00:10:32,040 --> 00:10:36,559 Speaker 2: that onto the mills which were behind Liverpool in Lancashire. 180 00:10:36,600 --> 00:10:40,680 Speaker 2: That was a big industry at the time to this day, 181 00:10:40,880 --> 00:10:43,840 Speaker 2: I know how to take the staple of some raw cotton? 182 00:10:44,080 --> 00:10:44,360 Speaker 3: Do you? 183 00:10:44,480 --> 00:10:45,240 Speaker 4: How do you do that? 184 00:10:45,840 --> 00:10:49,720 Speaker 2: You've got a piece of cotton that's you know, just 185 00:10:50,000 --> 00:10:52,720 Speaker 2: come off the bush and being packed, and you take 186 00:10:52,760 --> 00:10:56,640 Speaker 2: it between your thumbs and you tease it, and you 187 00:10:56,800 --> 00:10:59,840 Speaker 2: keep teasing it till you all you're left with is 188 00:10:59,880 --> 00:11:04,000 Speaker 2: the one bit that won't tease off. That thing that's left, 189 00:11:04,320 --> 00:11:07,280 Speaker 2: the thread that's left is called the staple. And you 190 00:11:07,559 --> 00:11:10,040 Speaker 2: judge the quality of the cotton on the length of 191 00:11:10,080 --> 00:11:10,720 Speaker 2: that staple. 192 00:11:11,720 --> 00:11:14,120 Speaker 4: That's very beautiful. What year would this have been? What 193 00:11:14,200 --> 00:11:14,920 Speaker 4: years have we time? 194 00:11:14,960 --> 00:11:26,520 Speaker 3: In mid fifties, so I was coming to London a 195 00:11:26,640 --> 00:11:30,600 Speaker 3: huge exposure to food and to restaurants and going out. 196 00:11:31,120 --> 00:11:36,480 Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely, I mean in Liverpool there weren't till my knowledge, 197 00:11:36,520 --> 00:11:41,000 Speaker 2: any real sort of fine restaurants. You had great Chinese food, 198 00:11:41,440 --> 00:11:45,520 Speaker 2: great Indian food, but the English cooking was normally done 199 00:11:45,559 --> 00:11:48,480 Speaker 2: best at home. Yes, you know you had an ante 200 00:11:48,679 --> 00:11:51,640 Speaker 2: or somebody who was like really made a great stew 201 00:11:52,280 --> 00:11:54,680 Speaker 2: in Liverpool. There's a stew that's called scouse. 202 00:11:55,240 --> 00:11:55,640 Speaker 4: What's that? 203 00:11:55,760 --> 00:11:59,640 Speaker 2: It's like an Irish stew sort of everything in and 204 00:11:59,679 --> 00:12:03,079 Speaker 2: then you years later, when Linda and I became vegetarian, 205 00:12:03,160 --> 00:12:06,280 Speaker 2: we went up and my Auntie was very nice, very kind, 206 00:12:06,320 --> 00:12:10,360 Speaker 2: and she made scouts without the meat, which Liverpolitan is 207 00:12:10,400 --> 00:12:11,839 Speaker 2: called blind scouse. 208 00:12:13,559 --> 00:12:13,640 Speaker 5: It. 209 00:12:14,600 --> 00:12:17,440 Speaker 3: I'm sure you've written and talked about this, but how 210 00:12:17,440 --> 00:12:21,400 Speaker 3: did the decision by the two of you? And Mary 211 00:12:21,800 --> 00:12:24,520 Speaker 3: said to me, you must remember that my father and 212 00:12:24,600 --> 00:12:26,160 Speaker 3: my mother decided this together. 213 00:12:26,240 --> 00:12:28,400 Speaker 4: It wasn't my mother's that's true. 214 00:12:28,160 --> 00:12:31,440 Speaker 3: We will be vegetarian, said it was a joint decision, 215 00:12:31,440 --> 00:12:34,199 Speaker 3: which now everybody I have to say is thinking about 216 00:12:34,200 --> 00:12:37,600 Speaker 3: the environment. All my children and grandchildren are either not 217 00:12:37,679 --> 00:12:38,840 Speaker 3: eating meat or fish at all. 218 00:12:39,679 --> 00:12:42,280 Speaker 2: Goodness, so thinking about the environment exactly. 219 00:12:42,360 --> 00:12:44,839 Speaker 4: But what were you thinking about then? What made you 220 00:12:45,080 --> 00:12:45,360 Speaker 4: do that? 221 00:12:45,720 --> 00:12:50,119 Speaker 2: What it was was we were on the farm in Scotland. 222 00:12:50,120 --> 00:12:53,120 Speaker 2: We had a farm in a place called Campbelltown, which 223 00:12:53,160 --> 00:12:58,040 Speaker 2: is south down the Argyle Peninsula south of Glasgow, so 224 00:12:58,120 --> 00:13:01,079 Speaker 2: we spent quite a bit of time there. The Beatles 225 00:13:01,120 --> 00:13:03,840 Speaker 2: break up got a bit heavy in the business scene 226 00:13:04,480 --> 00:13:07,160 Speaker 2: and you just couldn't deal with it. So we decided 227 00:13:07,200 --> 00:13:10,120 Speaker 2: to just elope, even though we were married. We just 228 00:13:10,280 --> 00:13:13,559 Speaker 2: escaped there and it was just a sheep farm. We 229 00:13:13,600 --> 00:13:17,280 Speaker 2: were looking out of the kitchen window one day and 230 00:13:17,400 --> 00:13:20,080 Speaker 2: there were lambs. It was lambing season, early in spring, 231 00:13:20,720 --> 00:13:24,480 Speaker 2: and the lambs were gambling around so full of life, 232 00:13:24,480 --> 00:13:27,800 Speaker 2: and it was like, wow, this is really cool. And 233 00:13:27,920 --> 00:13:30,160 Speaker 2: I always say that what they seemed like they were doing, 234 00:13:30,200 --> 00:13:32,880 Speaker 2: it would be about twenty of them. They'd start at 235 00:13:32,920 --> 00:13:35,520 Speaker 2: one end of the field and then it'd be as 236 00:13:35,520 --> 00:13:39,120 Speaker 2: if someone said let's go and they all go and 237 00:13:39,200 --> 00:13:42,000 Speaker 2: run to the other side of the field. Let's go back. 238 00:13:44,480 --> 00:13:46,840 Speaker 2: So they were just running up and down, gambling and 239 00:13:46,960 --> 00:13:49,520 Speaker 2: jumping and everything were going, isn't this cute and great? 240 00:13:49,960 --> 00:13:52,320 Speaker 2: Then we suddenly realized we were eating leg of lamb. 241 00:13:52,840 --> 00:13:55,560 Speaker 2: So that was when the penny dropped and it was 242 00:13:55,600 --> 00:14:00,440 Speaker 2: like h leg of lamb. Then it was just we said, 243 00:14:00,480 --> 00:14:03,440 Speaker 2: you know what, do we try and not eat meat? 244 00:14:03,640 --> 00:14:06,079 Speaker 2: We try and go veggie. And in those days of course, 245 00:14:06,080 --> 00:14:10,360 Speaker 2: it was actually difficult, but we decided that we'd make 246 00:14:10,400 --> 00:14:14,240 Speaker 2: it a challenge. It just became a fun challenge. Okay, 247 00:14:14,280 --> 00:14:18,400 Speaker 2: what do you do? So we gradually begun filling the 248 00:14:18,440 --> 00:14:21,000 Speaker 2: hole in the middle of the plate. We'd keep everything 249 00:14:21,000 --> 00:14:25,200 Speaker 2: else and then we'd just work on things to take 250 00:14:25,240 --> 00:14:28,000 Speaker 2: the place of where the meat had been. And it 251 00:14:28,120 --> 00:14:31,680 Speaker 2: was quite funny actually, because at Christmas, you know, I'd 252 00:14:31,720 --> 00:14:35,640 Speaker 2: always loved the role which I had been given in 253 00:14:35,640 --> 00:14:40,000 Speaker 2: the family of carving the turkey, and Linda did cook 254 00:14:40,000 --> 00:14:43,360 Speaker 2: the turkey great. She was really good at that. So 255 00:14:43,760 --> 00:14:46,600 Speaker 2: suddenly here we were without anything for me to carve. 256 00:14:47,200 --> 00:14:50,440 Speaker 2: So she had the brilliant idea of making a macaroni 257 00:14:50,560 --> 00:14:53,920 Speaker 2: cheese so that we know it to taste good, and 258 00:14:53,960 --> 00:14:57,160 Speaker 2: then she let it cool and go solid, and then 259 00:14:57,200 --> 00:15:00,480 Speaker 2: we put it in the fridge overnight, and then the 260 00:15:00,520 --> 00:15:03,160 Speaker 2: next day I had this big block that I could 261 00:15:03,240 --> 00:15:07,960 Speaker 2: come into turkey sized portions. So it was like that. 262 00:15:08,240 --> 00:15:12,120 Speaker 2: It actually became very interesting to work out how to 263 00:15:12,200 --> 00:15:15,400 Speaker 2: do it because nobody else was bothering, you know. I 264 00:15:15,400 --> 00:15:20,240 Speaker 2: remember going with Linda's father one night to clarages and thinking, oh, great, 265 00:15:20,320 --> 00:15:21,960 Speaker 2: you know they're going to know how to do it. 266 00:15:22,040 --> 00:15:24,400 Speaker 2: We said, well, where'd you turn? Can you make some suggestions? 267 00:15:24,680 --> 00:15:29,120 Speaker 2: The waiter gave us a very sniffy look and said anyway. 268 00:15:29,120 --> 00:15:31,800 Speaker 2: He came back with a plate of vegetables steamed. Yeah, 269 00:15:31,960 --> 00:15:34,880 Speaker 2: that was the limit of his imagination. But you know, 270 00:15:35,000 --> 00:15:37,240 Speaker 2: things started to change really quickly. 271 00:15:37,480 --> 00:15:39,840 Speaker 3: But I think, Paul, without interrupting you, that you have 272 00:15:39,920 --> 00:15:42,960 Speaker 3: to take credit for that change. Linda, have to take 273 00:15:43,000 --> 00:15:48,400 Speaker 3: credit for that change, because you didn't just personally become vegetarian, 274 00:15:48,520 --> 00:15:51,160 Speaker 3: but you kind of told the world about what it 275 00:15:51,240 --> 00:15:53,760 Speaker 3: was like and how it was like, especially you know, 276 00:15:53,800 --> 00:15:57,720 Speaker 3: with her books and her vision created a place. I'll 277 00:15:57,720 --> 00:15:59,000 Speaker 3: tell you a story. Do you remember there was that 278 00:15:59,080 --> 00:16:03,200 Speaker 3: restaurant called Crack. It was like the only vegetarian restaurant 279 00:16:03,360 --> 00:16:04,320 Speaker 3: in London. 280 00:16:04,080 --> 00:16:05,800 Speaker 2: It was, and I thought it was very cool the 281 00:16:05,800 --> 00:16:07,000 Speaker 2: way they called it cranks. 282 00:16:07,120 --> 00:16:09,800 Speaker 3: And I once went there with Richard the first days 283 00:16:09,800 --> 00:16:11,680 Speaker 3: that I met him, and I was so happy to 284 00:16:11,680 --> 00:16:14,000 Speaker 3: see him, and I kept kissing him and having my 285 00:16:14,160 --> 00:16:16,200 Speaker 3: arms around him, and I saw a woman staring at 286 00:16:16,280 --> 00:16:18,720 Speaker 3: us and getting very annoyed, and so of course I 287 00:16:18,840 --> 00:16:21,280 Speaker 3: just did it more. She came over to the table 288 00:16:21,280 --> 00:16:24,280 Speaker 3: and she said, I think that what you've been doing 289 00:16:24,520 --> 00:16:27,160 Speaker 3: is appalling, but that you should be doing it in 290 00:16:27,240 --> 00:16:29,240 Speaker 3: a vegetarian restaurant. 291 00:16:29,080 --> 00:16:29,880 Speaker 4: Makes it worse. 292 00:16:33,360 --> 00:16:35,840 Speaker 5: It was somehow the idea that you couldn't be sexy 293 00:16:36,400 --> 00:16:39,880 Speaker 5: and have vegetables. So I think I think you could 294 00:16:39,880 --> 00:16:43,760 Speaker 5: say that you and Linda made vegetables sexy and rock 295 00:16:43,800 --> 00:16:44,240 Speaker 5: and roll. 296 00:16:44,280 --> 00:16:46,000 Speaker 4: It was something very important. 297 00:16:46,080 --> 00:16:48,520 Speaker 2: That is funny though, isn't it. It used to come 298 00:16:48,680 --> 00:16:52,560 Speaker 2: with the territory that if people were veggie, they were cranks, 299 00:16:53,120 --> 00:16:57,520 Speaker 2: and therefore they were boring, and so it gave this 300 00:16:57,640 --> 00:17:00,840 Speaker 2: image of the whole thing being really boring. The people 301 00:17:00,840 --> 00:17:04,119 Speaker 2: are boring, there's no kissing allowed. Yeah, you know, but 302 00:17:04,200 --> 00:17:06,000 Speaker 2: that soon left the arena. 303 00:17:06,760 --> 00:17:10,159 Speaker 3: Were you unique in the group of musicians and the 304 00:17:10,240 --> 00:17:13,040 Speaker 3: other people that were performing at the in the sixties. 305 00:17:13,520 --> 00:17:16,439 Speaker 3: Did they have the same explosion of food and enjoy 306 00:17:16,480 --> 00:17:18,480 Speaker 3: of food or do you think you were kind of 307 00:17:18,520 --> 00:17:19,720 Speaker 3: more passionate about it. 308 00:17:19,920 --> 00:17:21,919 Speaker 2: I don't know, you know, I think a lot of 309 00:17:21,960 --> 00:17:25,240 Speaker 2: them did, a lot of them didn't. Some people remained 310 00:17:25,520 --> 00:17:28,560 Speaker 2: traditional eaters. I mean, you know, the a couple of 311 00:17:28,640 --> 00:17:32,560 Speaker 2: people these days I know who were from those times 312 00:17:32,840 --> 00:17:36,280 Speaker 2: who just want English cooking. You know, it's just like 313 00:17:36,359 --> 00:17:39,080 Speaker 2: they want life to stay exactly the same as it was, 314 00:17:39,800 --> 00:17:42,200 Speaker 2: and I get it. You know, it kind of split 315 00:17:42,240 --> 00:17:44,480 Speaker 2: into two groups. I suppose, you know, the people who 316 00:17:44,480 --> 00:17:48,240 Speaker 2: weren't bothered with all that rubbishy wine and fine food. 317 00:17:48,480 --> 00:17:50,680 Speaker 2: They probably still thought it tastes like vinegar. 318 00:17:51,440 --> 00:17:53,800 Speaker 3: But when you travel, when you were on tour and 319 00:17:53,840 --> 00:17:56,359 Speaker 3: you were suddenly traveling in other countries, do you remember 320 00:17:56,400 --> 00:17:59,679 Speaker 3: being in Japan or China or an exotic place and 321 00:17:59,720 --> 00:18:03,720 Speaker 3: being confronted with food that you'd never seen before. 322 00:18:03,880 --> 00:18:07,359 Speaker 2: Never Japan mainly. I mean, I haven't actually been to China, 323 00:18:07,760 --> 00:18:12,359 Speaker 2: but Japan was quite an experience. I like Japanese food 324 00:18:12,880 --> 00:18:14,920 Speaker 2: these days because I'm vegetarian. A lot of it's a 325 00:18:14,960 --> 00:18:17,040 Speaker 2: bit fishy for me, but you can work your way 326 00:18:17,040 --> 00:18:21,399 Speaker 2: around it. I enjoy Japanese cuisine. I like sort of 327 00:18:21,440 --> 00:18:26,280 Speaker 2: Asian fusion. It didn't really mean that we would have 328 00:18:26,359 --> 00:18:28,600 Speaker 2: it at home. It was more when you went to 329 00:18:28,680 --> 00:18:33,880 Speaker 2: the country, you'd enjoy the food of that particular country. 330 00:18:40,400 --> 00:18:42,760 Speaker 3: And you've just done a book, haven't you tell me 331 00:18:42,800 --> 00:18:44,840 Speaker 3: about Linda McCartney's family Kitchen. 332 00:18:45,200 --> 00:18:48,600 Speaker 2: Yeah, we wanted to take a lot of her cooking 333 00:18:48,680 --> 00:18:52,639 Speaker 2: ideas and bring them more up to date. With the 334 00:18:52,680 --> 00:18:56,040 Speaker 2: way people tend to eat. Now it's vegetarian, but we 335 00:18:56,160 --> 00:18:59,800 Speaker 2: decided to actually make it vegan. Vegetarians so near to 336 00:18:59,840 --> 00:19:02,960 Speaker 2: be in anyway. I mean, you're only talking about cheese 337 00:19:03,119 --> 00:19:06,760 Speaker 2: and dairy products. You know that you've got so many 338 00:19:06,800 --> 00:19:10,800 Speaker 2: substitutes for those these days. So yeah, we just wanted 339 00:19:10,840 --> 00:19:15,520 Speaker 2: to get some really tasty, easy to make dishes that 340 00:19:15,600 --> 00:19:18,320 Speaker 2: would be good for a family, because I think if 341 00:19:18,359 --> 00:19:21,760 Speaker 2: you say to people, well, I'm vegetarian. These days actually 342 00:19:21,800 --> 00:19:24,120 Speaker 2: it is not so shocking, but it used to be 343 00:19:24,320 --> 00:19:26,440 Speaker 2: people say, oh, if you're coming to dinner, what can 344 00:19:26,480 --> 00:19:29,120 Speaker 2: I do? What can I get you? You know, So 345 00:19:29,200 --> 00:19:33,119 Speaker 2: that was originally why Linda got together a cookbook. So 346 00:19:33,840 --> 00:19:36,359 Speaker 2: it's nice to have come through it, really, you know, 347 00:19:36,400 --> 00:19:39,080 Speaker 2: it puts a perspective on it for us that it 348 00:19:39,359 --> 00:19:42,280 Speaker 2: was the kind of thing where you're getting told off 349 00:19:42,280 --> 00:19:45,880 Speaker 2: for kids in a restaurant, and nowadays it's just the opposite. Yeah, 350 00:19:45,920 --> 00:19:47,760 Speaker 2: you know, I'll tell you a restaurant I like a 351 00:19:47,800 --> 00:19:50,120 Speaker 2: lot is ABCV. 352 00:19:49,560 --> 00:19:50,200 Speaker 4: In New York. 353 00:19:50,400 --> 00:19:56,800 Speaker 2: Yeah, ABC is great. I forget the guy's name, Jean Pierre, George, George, 354 00:19:57,160 --> 00:20:00,920 Speaker 2: that's it. Yeah, And he made ABC, which good, but 355 00:20:01,119 --> 00:20:06,040 Speaker 2: ABCV is all veggie and so good. I always come 356 00:20:06,080 --> 00:20:08,720 Speaker 2: out of that having eaten too much. And the other 357 00:20:08,760 --> 00:20:11,760 Speaker 2: thing I like is that the waiters they're all very 358 00:20:11,800 --> 00:20:15,520 Speaker 2: invested in the idea. It really is kind of quite thrilling, 359 00:20:15,720 --> 00:20:18,160 Speaker 2: you know. And I sort of transport myself through time 360 00:20:18,560 --> 00:20:23,440 Speaker 2: back to play the vege of lounges through to modern day. 361 00:20:23,800 --> 00:20:28,320 Speaker 3: I interviewed al Gore and again, like you not a musician, 362 00:20:28,359 --> 00:20:31,520 Speaker 3: but a very good politician and a very good environmentalist. 363 00:20:31,720 --> 00:20:34,640 Speaker 4: And you know, it's hard to break the connection. 364 00:20:34,359 --> 00:20:37,439 Speaker 3: Between what we are, what our politics are, and what 365 00:20:37,520 --> 00:20:41,920 Speaker 3: our view on sustainability and how we vote, how we think, 366 00:20:42,080 --> 00:20:44,400 Speaker 3: how we judge, and how we eat. 367 00:20:44,720 --> 00:20:45,480 Speaker 4: You know, that is. 368 00:20:45,480 --> 00:20:48,760 Speaker 3: It's all connecting now, isn't it. And I think that's 369 00:20:48,800 --> 00:20:51,720 Speaker 3: so interesting. You have a farm. Al Gore has made 370 00:20:51,760 --> 00:20:54,880 Speaker 3: his farm, he inherited it in Tennessee, and he's made 371 00:20:54,920 --> 00:20:58,960 Speaker 3: it completely sustainable and organic. And the change the soil 372 00:20:59,119 --> 00:21:01,119 Speaker 3: tell us about your fine. 373 00:21:01,320 --> 00:21:04,480 Speaker 2: Yeah, well I was this organic, went organic well over 374 00:21:04,560 --> 00:21:08,639 Speaker 2: twenty years ago. And when I first bought the farm, 375 00:21:08,960 --> 00:21:13,160 Speaker 2: there were some fields that my farm guys would say, well, 376 00:21:13,200 --> 00:21:16,920 Speaker 2: there's no worms in these fields, there's no life because 377 00:21:16,960 --> 00:21:20,480 Speaker 2: basically all you did was you put on pesticides and 378 00:21:20,520 --> 00:21:23,879 Speaker 2: then you put a fertilizer in. So I thought, okay, 379 00:21:23,920 --> 00:21:26,200 Speaker 2: that's the challenge. You know, we're going to go organic. 380 00:21:26,760 --> 00:21:30,120 Speaker 2: So I talked to the Soil Association, who were very 381 00:21:30,160 --> 00:21:33,240 Speaker 2: good and kind of came and gave us some clues. 382 00:21:33,600 --> 00:21:37,119 Speaker 2: And we went organic. And the local farmers would say, oh, 383 00:21:37,160 --> 00:21:40,440 Speaker 2: you know, you're stupid. You're doing there. You know, it's 384 00:21:40,440 --> 00:21:43,840 Speaker 2: no use. Of course, nowadays they get it and they think, oh, 385 00:21:43,880 --> 00:21:46,959 Speaker 2: it's a good idea. So yeah, we changed the soil. 386 00:21:47,240 --> 00:21:51,919 Speaker 2: We grow crops like I like doing things like spelt wheat, 387 00:21:52,600 --> 00:21:56,880 Speaker 2: just because it's a little bit different. Rye. We grow peas. 388 00:21:57,560 --> 00:22:01,320 Speaker 2: Actually we're just getting into growing hemp. You know. The 389 00:22:01,400 --> 00:22:04,480 Speaker 2: funny thing is with government regulations, you've got to keep 390 00:22:04,520 --> 00:22:08,440 Speaker 2: it where people can't see it. You get all the 391 00:22:08,520 --> 00:22:10,640 Speaker 2: kids coming in and robbing it. 392 00:22:12,200 --> 00:22:14,800 Speaker 3: You've left something else out. Because Stella told me that 393 00:22:14,840 --> 00:22:15,960 Speaker 3: you're making your own hair. 394 00:22:16,240 --> 00:22:18,840 Speaker 2: Yeah, we do. Through the years, I would hear like 395 00:22:18,880 --> 00:22:22,280 Speaker 2: a neighbor would be selling some land that was next 396 00:22:22,320 --> 00:22:25,439 Speaker 2: door to ours. So I went to this one and 397 00:22:25,520 --> 00:22:28,320 Speaker 2: I said, I hear you selling that hop garden there, 398 00:22:28,680 --> 00:22:30,760 Speaker 2: and he said, yeah, you know anyway, So long story 399 00:22:30,800 --> 00:22:33,920 Speaker 2: should I've got it. And then I thought, well, I've 400 00:22:33,920 --> 00:22:36,399 Speaker 2: got to start doing hops. You know, I've got to 401 00:22:36,440 --> 00:22:39,560 Speaker 2: bring it back because the region we're in in Sussex 402 00:22:40,119 --> 00:22:44,800 Speaker 2: was a very big hop growing area. So I went 403 00:22:44,880 --> 00:22:47,720 Speaker 2: to a local brewer who's just in the village near us, 404 00:22:47,800 --> 00:22:49,639 Speaker 2: and I said, could you make some beer for me? 405 00:22:49,920 --> 00:22:52,600 Speaker 2: And so I said, I'll grow the hops. Yeah, and 406 00:22:52,960 --> 00:22:56,480 Speaker 2: you put it all together and organic, it must be organic, 407 00:22:57,000 --> 00:22:58,879 Speaker 2: and so he did. And then we were looking for 408 00:22:58,920 --> 00:23:02,680 Speaker 2: a name for the beer. And you know, these artists 409 00:23:02,680 --> 00:23:05,919 Speaker 2: and beers, they've got to have crazy names. So I 410 00:23:06,040 --> 00:23:10,200 Speaker 2: was riding with Linda one day through our woods and 411 00:23:10,640 --> 00:23:13,399 Speaker 2: she was behind me and I stopped and I said, 412 00:23:13,840 --> 00:23:16,200 Speaker 2: you're not going to believe what you're going to see. 413 00:23:16,240 --> 00:23:20,000 Speaker 2: Now what I said, Look, she caught up with me 414 00:23:20,520 --> 00:23:23,159 Speaker 2: and it was a stinkhorn. I don't know if you 415 00:23:23,200 --> 00:23:24,320 Speaker 2: know what a stinkhorn is. 416 00:23:24,440 --> 00:23:26,119 Speaker 4: I have no idea what a stink horn is. 417 00:23:26,119 --> 00:23:31,920 Speaker 2: It's a fungus that is white and erect and very phallic. 418 00:23:32,840 --> 00:23:37,000 Speaker 2: I mean it looks like an erect penis. And then 419 00:23:37,080 --> 00:23:40,400 Speaker 2: beside it, which is even better, there was another one 420 00:23:40,560 --> 00:23:43,520 Speaker 2: which was like a limp penis. So you got this 421 00:23:43,680 --> 00:23:46,520 Speaker 2: erect thing, and I'm saying, I'm saying, well, I tell 422 00:23:46,600 --> 00:23:49,080 Speaker 2: people this. I said, don't blame me. This is nature. 423 00:23:50,119 --> 00:23:52,920 Speaker 2: It's not me being dirty. So that's what our beer 424 00:23:53,000 --> 00:23:54,520 Speaker 2: is called old Stinkhorn. 425 00:23:54,920 --> 00:23:55,600 Speaker 4: So can we get it? 426 00:23:55,720 --> 00:23:58,040 Speaker 2: You can, I'll put you on the list. I send 427 00:23:58,040 --> 00:24:00,280 Speaker 2: it to friends. I just send it to friends. 428 00:24:00,400 --> 00:24:01,760 Speaker 4: Can we have it in the river cafe? 429 00:24:01,800 --> 00:24:04,680 Speaker 2: That would be well, we don't produce that many. It's 430 00:24:04,720 --> 00:24:07,120 Speaker 2: more a personal I'll send you a six pack. 431 00:24:07,640 --> 00:24:09,080 Speaker 4: Okay, I'm waiting for it. 432 00:24:09,160 --> 00:24:11,680 Speaker 3: The connection of between you and myself, as I said, 433 00:24:11,800 --> 00:24:15,359 Speaker 3: was music. It was is food. It was you know 434 00:24:15,680 --> 00:24:20,360 Speaker 3: when on my Desert Island discs I played I Will Sung, 435 00:24:20,520 --> 00:24:22,920 Speaker 3: Do you remember I was sung by Garrison Kelly Or 436 00:24:22,960 --> 00:24:25,159 Speaker 3: And you came in and said, you'd never heard that version. 437 00:24:25,240 --> 00:24:28,760 Speaker 3: And we played the memorial for our son who died 438 00:24:28,800 --> 00:24:29,680 Speaker 3: aged twenty seven. 439 00:24:30,119 --> 00:24:32,960 Speaker 2: That was the first time I heard of your love 440 00:24:33,119 --> 00:24:36,760 Speaker 2: of that song, which it was very very lovely. To 441 00:24:36,840 --> 00:24:39,840 Speaker 2: imagine it at a memorial was very poignant. 442 00:24:40,359 --> 00:24:41,280 Speaker 4: It was very beautiful. 443 00:24:41,280 --> 00:24:43,240 Speaker 3: And I think that if you know, for me, then 444 00:24:43,280 --> 00:24:46,280 Speaker 3: for Richard and our family, that was comfort and it 445 00:24:46,320 --> 00:24:49,399 Speaker 3: was connection and so I guess my last question to 446 00:24:49,440 --> 00:24:53,000 Speaker 3: you is if food is something you do politically by 447 00:24:53,000 --> 00:24:55,679 Speaker 3: what you choose to eat, if it's socially what you 448 00:24:55,920 --> 00:24:59,080 Speaker 3: sit down with your friends and he It's also comfort, 449 00:24:59,160 --> 00:25:01,600 Speaker 3: isn't it? There is that is comfort that we go 450 00:25:01,760 --> 00:25:05,280 Speaker 3: to that makes us feel better. What for my last 451 00:25:05,320 --> 00:25:09,480 Speaker 3: question would be, Sir Paul McCartney, your comfort. 452 00:25:09,040 --> 00:25:15,760 Speaker 2: Food, Well, I like a casada or a quesadilla. It 453 00:25:16,680 --> 00:25:20,960 Speaker 2: is a comfort food. It's like a pizza turned inside out. 454 00:25:21,880 --> 00:25:24,439 Speaker 2: I love it. In fact, I think I'm having it tonight. 455 00:25:27,480 --> 00:25:29,600 Speaker 2: All right, Ruthie, thanks a lot. I love you. Don 456 00:25:30,400 --> 00:25:31,680 Speaker 2: hope you're sensible enough. 457 00:25:31,880 --> 00:25:34,200 Speaker 4: You were wonderful, You are wonderful. I'll see you soon. 458 00:25:34,200 --> 00:25:35,040 Speaker 4: When are you coming in? 459 00:25:35,240 --> 00:25:36,200 Speaker 2: As soon as I can? 460 00:25:36,480 --> 00:25:41,080 Speaker 4: Okay, come on, we're waiting for you. Okay. 461 00:25:42,000 --> 00:25:45,440 Speaker 3: To visit the online shop of The River Cafe, go 462 00:25:45,560 --> 00:25:48,880 Speaker 3: to shop The Rivercafe dot co dot uk. 463 00:25:52,520 --> 00:25:55,359 Speaker 1: River Cafe Table four is a production of iHeartRadio and 464 00:25:55,400 --> 00:26:00,600 Speaker 1: Adami Studios. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, 465 00:26:00,720 --> 00:26:03,719 Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.