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Speaker 1: Hey, welcome into the all New All Ball. I'm Doug Gottleiban.

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Speaker 1: Thanks for downloading. Don't forget to subscribe and rate this.

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Speaker 1: Tell a friend about it. We got a bunch of

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Speaker 1: other All Balls if you want to go into your queue,

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Speaker 1: right your que your line, your lineup, you can check

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Speaker 1: them out. Uh, there's a bunch of the Dane Fife

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Speaker 1: one was a good one. M man. There's just so

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Speaker 1: many good ones, like Chris Beer was a good one,

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Speaker 1: just so many Miles Simon taking us through his national

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Speaker 1: championship Brown was a go one. We're gonna get to

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Speaker 1: Jamian Christian. He's the new head coach at George Washington.

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Speaker 1: He was only a head coach at Sienna for a year,

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Speaker 1: and we'll talk to him about leaving after one year.

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Speaker 1: Why George Washington and kind of a different point of

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Speaker 1: view in a different part of the country that I

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Speaker 1: didn't grow up in and I'm a fan of. But

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Speaker 1: I don't know enough about all those Virginia schools and

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Speaker 1: the history of the history of some of these different coaches,

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Speaker 1: and he's coached with a bunch of them. So we'll

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Speaker 1: get to Jamie and Christian in a moment. I did

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Speaker 1: want to point something out I have been I'd like

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Speaker 1: to thank the first in the media to say Kevin

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Speaker 1: Rant is the best player in the NBA. And I'll

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Speaker 1: admit that there have been people in the NBA two

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Speaker 1: years ago we're like, nah, still Lebron, Still Lebron, still Lebron.

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Speaker 1: And so while I may not have been right by

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Speaker 1: some people's estimation, then I believe I'm right now and

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Speaker 1: I could make the argument I was right then just

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Speaker 1: watching the NBA Finals, regardless of which. You know, what's

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Speaker 1: fascinating about the NBA. We operate under this prevailing wisdom.

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Speaker 1: And it might be true that Kevin Durant Watts once

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Speaker 1: out and this will be the last year of this

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Speaker 1: version of dominant Golden State Warriors. What if I told

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Speaker 1: you it's more likely to be the last version of

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Speaker 1: this year's Houston Rockets. Rockets are the best record last

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Speaker 1: year or the West um And though they did get

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Speaker 1: it this year, that was because of the injuries that

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Speaker 1: they sustained to James Harden earlier in the year and

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Speaker 1: other injuries like Clayton Cappella later in the year. But

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Speaker 1: if you look, you've got Capella, who it does feel

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Speaker 1: like he's topped out in terms of his offensive skill.

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Speaker 1: Chris Paul is not getting younger, and while he's still

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Speaker 1: very good, he's not dynamic like he used to be.

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Speaker 1: And look, James Harden's great, and he has his strengths,

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Speaker 1: he has his flaws. There's nothing but you just you're

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Speaker 1: not gonna add any more dynamic players with those three salaries,

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Speaker 1: especially Chris Paul making close to forty million, and and

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Speaker 1: you're well into the mid fourties with James Harden. I

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Speaker 1: could make the case we're just as likely to see

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Speaker 1: the list of the last of the Houston Rockets at

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Speaker 1: this level and we are the Golden State Warriors. And

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Speaker 1: my logic behind that is this, Kevin Durant, why would

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Speaker 1: he leave? Why would you leave? When you won two championships?

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Speaker 1: You might win a third and row because he wasn't

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Speaker 1: And this is like an AU expression that I hate

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Speaker 1: getting the love. Uh wasn't getting the love that he wanted.

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Speaker 1: Wasn't into love all right, So it wasn't getting the love.

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Speaker 1: Big deal. But you do understand when you're the best,

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Speaker 1: you feel like you're the best at your craft and

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Speaker 1: you've showed it on the game's biggest stage. And people

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Speaker 1: still aren't giving you the love. H But now he

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Speaker 1: has the best of both worlds. Now he's playing on

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Speaker 1: the best team, and he's getting the attention and the

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Speaker 1: rightful attention and respect that he deserves. And then you

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Speaker 1: think about everybody says they want their own team. Really

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Speaker 1: you want to go to the Knicks. Nobody likes their owner.

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Speaker 1: And though I think everybody respects their front office and

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Speaker 1: their coaching staff, it's not like those guys have won

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Speaker 1: anything anywhere. You're you're splitting Kings. You have a winning

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Speaker 1: hand in Golden State, and read his quotes. He's actually

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Speaker 1: having fun now and getting the respect he deserves. I'm

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Speaker 1: not so sure, Kevin Durant. This is why you gotta

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Speaker 1: wait till the end of season to say where somebody's going.

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Speaker 1: I'm not so sure that he's definitely being uh Oakland

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Speaker 1: or I guess he's leaving Oakland regardless of gonna be

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Speaker 1: in s Francisco next year. Let me quickly touched on

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Speaker 1: this the college basketball trial. It's important to understand and

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Speaker 1: many of you guys who are listening your ball guys,

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Speaker 1: you know that they have always been people who who

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Speaker 1: have claimed they were getting paid or somebody was getting paid, right,

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Speaker 1: like every coach in the country at some point, like, well,

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Speaker 1: you know how they take care of people. They take

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Speaker 1: care of people. And I was told by some pretty

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Speaker 1: good sources that Arizona was really or is really really confident,

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Speaker 1: um that Sean Miller will remain as their head coach,

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Speaker 1: really really confident and Okay, Like I understand that what

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Speaker 1: book Richardson saying is hearsay and it's not something you

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Speaker 1: would convict somebody on in the court of law, but

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Speaker 1: in the court of public opinion. Boy, I don't know, right,

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Speaker 1: just they had DeAndre at book Richson says that he

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Speaker 1: was paying DeAndre in ten grand a month. They go

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Speaker 1: through one year where they lose all the recruits, now

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Speaker 1: they have every They got an unbelievable recruiting class. Like

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Speaker 1: I want to believe that this is just hearsay and

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Speaker 1: book Richardson talking big because that's what dudes do. But

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Speaker 1: the fact that we haven't had that Sean doesn't have

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Speaker 1: to appear. I don't know. I just feels like status

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Speaker 1: quo will remain. And yeah, well Arizona kind of dodged it.

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Speaker 1: Everybody knew what happened, but we couldn't prove it to them, right.

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Speaker 1: That's what it feels like. The how we will react

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Speaker 1: to this news. I just I don't know. It just

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Speaker 1: doesn't feel like a strong look. On the other hand,

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Speaker 1: I don't want to fire Sean Miller for something that

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Speaker 1: was in fact hearsay. He didn't get a chance to

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Speaker 1: defend himself, but he clearly didn't want to defend himself

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Speaker 1: and appear um appear in court. So the more answers

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Speaker 1: we supposedly have, the more questions arise. If I was

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Speaker 1: the president of Arizona, if I was the applec Director

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Speaker 1: of Arizona, I probably would have fired Sean Miller the

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Speaker 1: second this this this part came out. I do understand

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Speaker 1: that the ESPN report does not seem to be valid.

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Speaker 1: I mean, like, look, if you said, well as payments

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Speaker 1: of ten thousand dollars, ten of them, which there was

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Speaker 1: no number given by book Richardson, you know, maybe there

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Speaker 1: you draw your conclusion. But ESPN said there was a

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Speaker 1: recording that had him offering a hundred thousand dollars for

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Speaker 1: DeAndre and and to this point we have not heard

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Speaker 1: any such reaction any such recording. But when you hear

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Speaker 1: An assistance, so you know, flippantly say yeah, here's what's happening,

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Speaker 1: and here's how he's taking care of him, and that's

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Speaker 1: how we roll here. And then you hear some other

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Speaker 1: names of other players. I think we know how they

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Speaker 1: do business, and it stinks because I've always operated like

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Speaker 1: I thought Sean Miller, and I still I still want

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Speaker 1: to believe that Sean and Archie Miller they do things

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Speaker 1: the right way. They're hard at, hard nosed coaches. They

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Speaker 1: get after their guys and get after recruiting, and they

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Speaker 1: get guys because they coach at good schools and they

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Speaker 1: get in early and they have good relationships. But it

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Speaker 1: makes it harder to believe when you hear their assistant

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Speaker 1: coach saying he was paying their best player ten grand

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Speaker 1: a month. It doesn't feel like it's a true smoking gun.

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Speaker 1: There's no receipt, there's no cash that fell out of

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Speaker 1: an envelope. But it feels like most of us with

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Speaker 1: the brain know what was going on, and we're frankly

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Speaker 1: a little bit surprised that there is no response. Now,

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Speaker 1: let's get to Jamie and Christian. I'm interested to catch

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Speaker 1: up with him. We know each other a little bit

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Speaker 1: he's thirty seven years old, been a head coach at

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Speaker 1: Mount St. Mary's. That's uh his all monitor. He's at

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Speaker 1: Sienna for just one year, just as last year, and

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Speaker 1: now he's the new head coach at George Washington. Today

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Speaker 1: where you catch up with him and I believe it's

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Speaker 1: the day he's moving into his new house in the

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Speaker 1: DC area, Jamie, A lot of different places I want

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Speaker 1: to I want to go with this, but let's let's

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Speaker 1: start with have you settled in yet, new job, new home?

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Speaker 1: Like you found your place to live? Do you know

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Speaker 1: the way you want to go to work? Like? What?

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Speaker 1: What's what's this life for you? We'll just starting to

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Speaker 1: get settled in um here today moving into our home,

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Speaker 1: UM a little bit later tonight. I'm so we're excited

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Speaker 1: about that. UM. You know, I actually really embraced the

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Speaker 1: first couple of weeks of kind of being all over

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Speaker 1: the place. I think that energy in the first six

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Speaker 1: weeks of taking over new programs important important to embrace it.

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Speaker 1: So you know, we've got we've got our staff sleeping

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Speaker 1: in offices, sleeping on over the place, but we're really

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Speaker 1: hoping it having a great time doing it, building our

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Speaker 1: team Karateie is the staff and you know hit the

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Speaker 1: recruit trim really art. Okay, wait, so tonight is actually

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Speaker 1: the night that you move into your house. Tonight is

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Speaker 1: the night we're moving in. We won't have we won't

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Speaker 1: have any our our actually our furniture and stuff gets

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Speaker 1: there on Friday, so we'll be uh sleeping on their

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Speaker 1: matches for for for tonight. But on Friday everything gets

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Speaker 1: there and in life will begin here in d C. Okay.

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Speaker 1: Then there's a lot of stuff I want to ask

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Speaker 1: you about again, about your career and about the new

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Speaker 1: job and about your old jobs. But this stuff I'm

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Speaker 1: fastening because I've I've moved a bunch of times, like we've.

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Speaker 1: When I was at ESPN, we lived in I think

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Speaker 1: three different houses in the nine years we were up there. Um,

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Speaker 1: and then I moved to the West Coast and we

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Speaker 1: lived in a different house both years renting, and then

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Speaker 1: we moved to the East Coast and then back to

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Speaker 1: the West Coast. All right, So you like, when when

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Speaker 1: you're interviewing for the George Washington job, at what point

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Speaker 1: did you allow did you allow yourself to think this

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Speaker 1: possibility to start looking at real estate? Uh? Well, I

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Speaker 1: let my wife's handle all that stuff with the real estate. Um,

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Speaker 1: she's she's unbelievable with it. Um. You know, we're actually

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Speaker 1: gonna spend some time a part So it's important for

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Speaker 1: the area that we live in that she feels really comfortable.

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Speaker 1: So we have a great team dynamic in that regard

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Speaker 1: that we really bounce ideas off one another. But I

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Speaker 1: really trust her to find the place and to do

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Speaker 1: a great job with it. And and she's she's been

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Speaker 1: undefeated so far in that in that category. Um. You know,

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Speaker 1: I think it's really important in this business, like a

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Speaker 1: lot of things can happen really fastly. We all can

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Speaker 1: understand that they just have a great partner. And I

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Speaker 1: have that with my wife Ali. You know, we can

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Speaker 1: really talk about a lot of things along the way.

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Speaker 1: And um, you know, this coaching search, Ala, we took

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Speaker 1: about six days, I want to say, I mean it

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Speaker 1: was very quick from the time they made contact with

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Speaker 1: my agent to you know, when we were decided to

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Speaker 1: be here. Um. And so that communication we were able

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Speaker 1: to have, um, you know, consistently with one another really

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Speaker 1: allowed us to get adjusted quickly. Okay, so uh, but

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Speaker 1: I guess that that's that's the That's the other question though, Ali,

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Speaker 1: you're interviewing it's six days, like you're like, all right,

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Speaker 1: this is a possible start looking. You know, did she

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Speaker 1: she goes? She know she is zello? Is she real

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Speaker 1: or dot com? We're not sponsored by anybody, but we

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Speaker 1: could be like, what's the how does she go about it?

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Speaker 1: I think I think she actually uses a bunch of

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Speaker 1: different ones. Um. You know, I'm really fortunate to hear

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Speaker 1: Cokai A. Dassi. Um is my college teammate. Um. He's

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Speaker 1: the key to your real estate needs here in the DC, Maryland,

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Speaker 1: Virginia area. So when we first you know, when the

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Speaker 1: job thinks sort of opened up and it became more

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Speaker 1: of a possibility. I called him first, UM and just said,

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Speaker 1: what areas do you think we should look in? Where

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Speaker 1: should we look at? Um. We didn't end up purchasing

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Speaker 1: from him, but he gave us some great advice about

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Speaker 1: areas and things to look in too, and my wife

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Speaker 1: Ali was able to lean on him as well. Son.

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Speaker 1: This move was a little bit different than most because

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Speaker 1: we had a close personal friend who knew the market

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Speaker 1: here in the area better than anyone else. Did you

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Speaker 1: get any sticker shot, like you're you're an upstate in

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Speaker 1: New York. I mean it's not not cheap, but it's

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Speaker 1: not d C. Like did you go like wait, wait,

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Speaker 1: how how much for what? Like? No, you know, being

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Speaker 1: being from down this area, we already had a very

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Speaker 1: good idea of what the real estate was going to be,

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Speaker 1: like how much it was gonna be, so we weren't

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Speaker 1: surprised by that at all. Um. You know, my wife's

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Speaker 1: very successful in her business and one she does as well,

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Speaker 1: so you know, everything was just about let's find a

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Speaker 1: great place. Is close enough to campus, close enough to

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Speaker 1: the guys. Um, we could really have a great experience

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Speaker 1: with them when we could really create this family environment. Um,

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Speaker 1: have you have you walked by like the monument? Have

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Speaker 1: you walked Because I'm having been to g Deb's campus,

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Speaker 1: I know the proximity to everything, and uh I it's

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Speaker 1: I mean it's literally right in the heart of e

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Speaker 1: See and it's really cool. It's an amazing, amazing city.

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Speaker 1: Like have you have you done that yet? When you walk?

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Speaker 1: I mean it's spring in DC and cherry blossoms. Have

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Speaker 1: you gotten a chance to get caught up in that

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Speaker 1: at all? Doug, this place is amazing. Um. You know,

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Speaker 1: driving driving here every morning, if you take a different route,

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Speaker 1: you see something else that you didn't do the day before,

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Speaker 1: maybe something that you didn't appreciate at the right level.

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Speaker 1: And UM, it's just amazing, you know. I when I

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Speaker 1: when you when you tour it and you walk around

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Speaker 1: it and you have such a strong feel of you know,

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Speaker 1: where GW is. I mean, they've done a great job

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Speaker 1: here on campus of making sure feel safe and your secure.

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Speaker 1: But then you walk three blocks and float blocks and

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Speaker 1: you see the Capitol building and you see the Lincoln Monument.

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Speaker 1: It's it's one of the most unique setups that we have.

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Speaker 1: We've gotta do a great job telling our story. UM.

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Speaker 1: I know we'll do that as a staff. But it's

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Speaker 1: just an unbelievable place to be in. There's always something

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Speaker 1: to do. Um, there's always a beautiful sight to see.

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Speaker 1: And literally we call it it's the most powerful city

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Speaker 1: in the world, and the views in the location really

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Speaker 1: showcase that. Okay, so how far is it from Quentin

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Speaker 1: where where you grew up. It's about two hours in

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Speaker 1: thirty minutes from where I grew up. Um and um,

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Speaker 1: and we'll we'll be expecting a lot of those people

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Speaker 1: to come up here and hang out with us. Um,

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Speaker 1: and it's it's just an amazing place to be. And again,

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Speaker 1: with traffic sometimes we can stretch you about three hours. Um,

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Speaker 1: but you know that you have the proctici inity here.

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Speaker 1: You know what time traffic is that you have a

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Speaker 1: chance to kind of jump it um when you need to. UM. Okay,

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Speaker 1: So you played the Mount as as a players. We

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Speaker 1: see hear the sirens kind of in the background. There

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Speaker 1: are some other first to d c um. So what

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Speaker 1: what what was what was your career like? Like you were, like,

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Speaker 1: you're a really decorated player. I don't think I think

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Speaker 1: your senior year. You guys didn't lose a game right

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Speaker 1: in high school on state championship and you're you know,

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Speaker 1: and and you come from an athletic family. Like, what

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Speaker 1: was it like when you went to the Mount? Because

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Speaker 1: I've I've been by the Mount, but never been to

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Speaker 1: the Mount. You went there as a player? What was

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Speaker 1: it like? Well, you know, like most of us in

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Speaker 1: high school, right, like we have great high school careers.

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Speaker 1: Were the best player on the team. Um, you know,

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Speaker 1: you have great teammates that you can build up and

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Speaker 1: you know, the college journey is different because it's the

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Speaker 1: first time that a lot of us are arriving UM

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Speaker 1: at a place where there's a lot of other talented players. UM,

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Speaker 1: where your discipline becomes maybe your your most value talent

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Speaker 1: because everyone is talented and discipline is usually what separates you. UM.

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Speaker 1: I had to trinci place with them sale UM, a

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Speaker 1: Hall of Fame head coach UM over eight hundred winds.

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Speaker 1: That really attracted me to the mount The Mounts of

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Speaker 1: a different location. We're about twenty five minutes UM north

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Speaker 1: of Frederick, Maryland, forty five minutes west of Baltimore. UM.

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Speaker 1: You know, so it's a different location, but it stands

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Speaker 1: out on its own. I was really attracted there because

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Speaker 1: I felt like I could really learn from one of

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Speaker 1: the best. I mean, how many times you get a

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Speaker 1: chance to play for a Hall of Famer you you

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Speaker 1: plan for any cutting you understand that as well, like

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Speaker 1: you know you understand that different it makes in your

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Speaker 1: career and in your perspective of basketball and what they're

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Speaker 1: able to teach you. I was always really attracted to that. UM.

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Speaker 1: The problem was I was a pretty good players are freshman,

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Speaker 1: had my ventures of sophomore and then after that I

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Speaker 1: didn't improve much. So um, I recognized pretty early on

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Speaker 1: within my senior here at Mount Saint Mary's that I

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Speaker 1: was going to need to find something else to do.

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Speaker 1: That being a pro at at at playing basketball was

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Speaker 1: gonna be an option. And I had great assistant coaches,

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Speaker 1: a guy named Kirk Sawny who's the head coach at

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Speaker 1: Howard and when an assistant a couple other places, and

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Speaker 1: Milan Brown was there at the time. Those guys did

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Speaker 1: an unbelievable job with me, even though I wasn't playing,

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Speaker 1: of giving me true purpose on our team, allowing me

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Speaker 1: to work with scotting reports, watch films, speak up in meetings.

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Speaker 1: They didn't treat me as a guy that wasn't playing.

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Speaker 1: They treat me as a guy with a value member

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Speaker 1: of the team. And because they did that, I really

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Speaker 1: feel like I got a great jump start on the

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Speaker 1: on the coaching. Okay, so you finished what was it,

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Speaker 1: oh three or oh four? You finished? Well? I finished

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Speaker 1: a No. Four, but I might aloll have been done

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Speaker 1: a No. Three because I didn't play much and that

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Speaker 1: oh three o four season, So you didn't you didn't like,

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Speaker 1: But Milon was the coach right right, your your senior year. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: coach browns our head coach from two thousand three to

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Speaker 1: two thousand and four. But it is interesting though that

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Speaker 1: you being part of such a transition right from a

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Speaker 1: Hall of Fame coach to a young assistant moving over

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Speaker 1: like there is some I'm sure there's some things that

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Speaker 1: you can glean from that. Some learn from that for

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Speaker 1: you know, your own you know, rise to prominence, you know,

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Speaker 1: from the Mount to Sienna to George Washington. What do

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Speaker 1: you remember about the dynamics of an assistant becoming the

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Speaker 1: head coach within the Hall of Fame UH coaches for

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Speaker 1: about probably one of the that's that's an oddome amazing

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Speaker 1: question because that's probably probably helped my coaching career more

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Speaker 1: than anything. We went from a coach barrel and we

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Speaker 1: had one of the oldest coaching staffs in the country.

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Speaker 1: Then another assistant who was like like early seventies coach

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Speaker 1: Dylan was was was early seventies when Milan came in,

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Speaker 1: we were run the youngest coaching staffs in the country.

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Speaker 1: So we had a tremendous change from one to the other.

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Speaker 1: You know, there's always this normal when you come into

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Speaker 1: a program and we didn't want a ton of games

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Speaker 1: as a sophomore as as a junior. There's always just

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Speaker 1: normal when a new guy comes in, then none of

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Speaker 1: the guys there can play. They can't help us. And

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Speaker 1: Milan when he came in, you know too, he really

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Speaker 1: brought in some really talented players, some heraldic gush in the

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Speaker 1: the area that could really play. You know, a couple

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Speaker 1: of guys that will be Hall of famers, but they're

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Speaker 1: still freshmen. And you know how this thing kind of goes.

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Speaker 1: You know, there's just things you learned through your course

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Speaker 1: of playing that when you're a junior senior you're just

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Speaker 1: gonna be better at. And so we would lose games

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Speaker 1: or being games that we could be more up or

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Speaker 1: um because just because our freshman didn't have the experience,

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Speaker 1: not because they weren't talented. Again, I think talent is

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Speaker 1: one of the most overrated commodities because I think every

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Speaker 1: team has talents about having that discipline, and typically your

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Speaker 1: discipline increases at the more you play, the more you

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Speaker 1: have an opportunity to do that. And and so you know,

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Speaker 1: we had a bunch of seniors who played a ton

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Speaker 1: early in our careers that didn't really play much as seniors. Um.

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Speaker 1: And I felt like at the time we really heard

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Speaker 1: our team because Brown and I I have talked about a ton,

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Speaker 1: I feel like it really heard our team because I

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Speaker 1: felt like we could have played ten to fifteen minutes

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Speaker 1: and kind of bring to the gaps some and kept

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Speaker 1: us in games. And our really talented freshman gonna helped us.

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Speaker 1: And um, So what I've tried to do and every

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Speaker 1: one of my stops quite honestly, is to really try

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Speaker 1: to assess the players that are there. Um, we've had

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Speaker 1: success within the first year. I think we went plus

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Speaker 1: ten my first year at Mount St. Mary's. They won

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Speaker 1: eight year before we won eight. Team at SENNA we

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Speaker 1: want plus nine, and um, you know we've had some

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Speaker 1: success there. Um, But it's really because we just tried

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Speaker 1: to evaluate the players that were there and really giving

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Speaker 1: them true value and true ownership. Recognizing that the guys

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Speaker 1: that are rising seniors for us, you know, they're on

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Speaker 1: expiration clock, so they want to get it done as

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Speaker 1: badly as I do. And I remember that feeling that

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Speaker 1: I had when Coach Brown took over. So we've really

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Speaker 1: just tried to unleash that instead of saying, hey, we're

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Speaker 1: bringing an all new guys bringing up my own guys

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Speaker 1: whatever that means. Um, I've just tried to embrace him

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Speaker 1: as our guys, as our team, and we've had a

393
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Speaker 1: lot of success with guys who maybe don't have a

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Speaker 1: lot of success as in their careers, but really play

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Speaker 1: well force as seniors. Yeah, it's it's almost like a

396
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Speaker 1: pound puppy, right, Like a pound puppy, Like like they

397
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Speaker 1: if the coach and sometimes a lot of this more

398
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Speaker 1: than the coach gets fired where the coach is gone,

399
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Speaker 1: like they feel like they don't have any support within

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Speaker 1: the coach's office. Like if you wrap your arms around

401
00:18:49,920 --> 00:18:53,720
Speaker 1: the guys that are left behind, you'll get even more

402
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Speaker 1: kind of love and adoration than you ever thought possible

403
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Speaker 1: because because they thought they were gonna be you know,

404
00:18:59,080 --> 00:19:00,959
Speaker 1: they thought they were gonna be you know, just you know,

405
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Speaker 1: waiting for the you know, the new guys to come

406
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Speaker 1: into our guys coming in right. Like it's it's a

407
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Speaker 1: lot like a pound puppy, like you'll never get to

408
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Speaker 1: love you get like you get the love from a

409
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Speaker 1: pound puppy as opposed to you know, a newborn pure

410
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Speaker 1: bread whatever. Sometimes they have a little bit of entitlement

411
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Speaker 1: which is the same thing with a highly retouted player

412
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Speaker 1: right who you had to tell them how great they

413
00:19:20,320 --> 00:19:23,920
Speaker 1: were in order to get them right. You absolutely get it.

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Speaker 1: And you know, I think you being in locker rooms,

415
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Speaker 1: you understand that dynamic and when you're able to really

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Speaker 1: embrace someone and you know, the other advantage you have

417
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Speaker 1: is when you're taking over a new job, you know

418
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Speaker 1: what worked and you know what didn't work, you know,

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Speaker 1: and you could really know. I'm like, I'm not trying

420
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Speaker 1: to defend what happened the year before. I'm just trying

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Speaker 1: to look at the situation with a clear head and

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Speaker 1: a clear mind. And so I say, well, how can

423
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Speaker 1: we be at our very best? I get the luxury

424
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Speaker 1: you're changing the system how it fits our team, you know,

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Speaker 1: where sometimes if you're in the midst of it, you

426
00:19:49,920 --> 00:19:52,040
Speaker 1: don't have the opportunity to do that. So there's major

427
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Speaker 1: advantages to looking at what the guys can do and

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Speaker 1: what they can be really successful at instead of always

429
00:19:56,800 --> 00:19:58,960
Speaker 1: harpening on what they can't do. And I think you're

430
00:19:58,960 --> 00:20:02,000
Speaker 1: taking over a program that's that struggled. People have embraced,

431
00:20:02,080 --> 00:20:03,840
Speaker 1: people have talked a ton of about what they can't do,

432
00:20:04,320 --> 00:20:06,320
Speaker 1: But man, we all know this, man, we're gonna be

433
00:20:06,359 --> 00:20:08,320
Speaker 1: really successful the things that we can do, and we

434
00:20:08,440 --> 00:20:10,159
Speaker 1: just really try to do a great job embracing that.

435
00:20:10,320 --> 00:20:12,600
Speaker 1: I I got a failing question. What was he like

436
00:20:12,640 --> 00:20:14,439
Speaker 1: as a coach? Like, what did he How did you

437
00:20:14,440 --> 00:20:19,840
Speaker 1: guys play? Oh? Man, he's awesome. Uh, he's awesome. Uh.

438
00:20:20,000 --> 00:20:21,919
Speaker 1: You know, have so many great stories. But I think

439
00:20:21,960 --> 00:20:23,440
Speaker 1: one of the best thing is he just wants that.

440
00:20:23,480 --> 00:20:25,359
Speaker 1: He wanted you to play with freedom. He wants you

441
00:20:25,440 --> 00:20:27,320
Speaker 1: to play as a unit. Um. You know, I think

442
00:20:27,320 --> 00:20:28,919
Speaker 1: when you hopefully, when you watch our teams play, you

443
00:20:28,920 --> 00:20:31,320
Speaker 1: see our guys take shots that they can make and

444
00:20:31,560 --> 00:20:33,120
Speaker 1: they have a ton of compidence in it. He wants

445
00:20:33,160 --> 00:20:35,040
Speaker 1: you to share the ball. But you know, he was

446
00:20:35,080 --> 00:20:36,720
Speaker 1: one of these guys that wanted to play really free

447
00:20:36,720 --> 00:20:39,040
Speaker 1: and loose, and he didn't want to be micromanaging your

448
00:20:39,040 --> 00:20:41,440
Speaker 1: shot attempts, and he wanted you to be aggressive. You know,

449
00:20:41,480 --> 00:20:43,680
Speaker 1: if you could shoot from thirty feet, he wanted you

450
00:20:43,720 --> 00:20:45,520
Speaker 1: to shoot from thirty feet. I mean I've got yelled

451
00:20:45,760 --> 00:20:47,679
Speaker 1: at many times in the sideline because I had a

452
00:20:47,680 --> 00:20:50,639
Speaker 1: thirty footer that I didn't shoot. So so you know,

453
00:20:50,720 --> 00:20:53,240
Speaker 1: he's a guy that wants you play. That kind of freedom,

454
00:20:53,560 --> 00:20:55,879
Speaker 1: and it's just the best. You know, I think every

455
00:20:55,920 --> 00:20:58,359
Speaker 1: coach wants to give those guys that kind of freedom.

456
00:20:58,400 --> 00:21:00,800
Speaker 1: At that point, he'd done it for forty nine years,

457
00:21:00,840 --> 00:21:03,040
Speaker 1: so maybe his level of freedom was different than most.

458
00:21:03,480 --> 00:21:05,160
Speaker 1: And you know, I hope the one day given that much.

459
00:21:05,160 --> 00:21:07,680
Speaker 1: But it was unbelievable plan for a guy who just

460
00:21:07,720 --> 00:21:10,200
Speaker 1: gave you the freedom to go make plays, win or lose.

461
00:21:10,320 --> 00:21:12,320
Speaker 1: It was gonna be on us, you know, and he's

462
00:21:12,359 --> 00:21:14,480
Speaker 1: giving us that freedom. Give me, okay, give me your

463
00:21:14,480 --> 00:21:16,119
Speaker 1: best failing sorry, he said, I've got so many stories,

464
00:21:16,160 --> 00:21:19,760
Speaker 1: give me your best one. Well, you know about you know,

465
00:21:19,840 --> 00:21:23,600
Speaker 1: coaches was pretty old um by the time, and so um. Yeah,

466
00:21:23,640 --> 00:21:25,760
Speaker 1: he's a tough billy guy. You know, he's a marine,

467
00:21:26,280 --> 00:21:28,560
Speaker 1: you know, I mean, a really tough guy. So about

468
00:21:28,560 --> 00:21:30,720
Speaker 1: twice a year he would get hit on the floor.

469
00:21:30,800 --> 00:21:33,320
Speaker 1: I mean, you know how coaches are going up and down.

470
00:21:33,359 --> 00:21:35,399
Speaker 1: His coaches are in the mid floor, and he just

471
00:21:35,400 --> 00:21:37,520
Speaker 1: couldn't move the same way he couldn't in the past.

472
00:21:38,280 --> 00:21:40,000
Speaker 1: So about twice a year he would get hit. And

473
00:21:40,000 --> 00:21:42,199
Speaker 1: then you know, every time he would get hit, everyone

474
00:21:42,240 --> 00:21:45,200
Speaker 1: in the gym would stop, right. I mean, he's old

475
00:21:45,320 --> 00:21:49,439
Speaker 1: you're you're actually concerned, and he would get up in

476
00:21:49,440 --> 00:21:51,359
Speaker 1: in his own way, be like, you know, I'm fine,

477
00:21:51,520 --> 00:21:53,480
Speaker 1: like you guys hit like a bunch of girls, or

478
00:21:53,560 --> 00:21:55,439
Speaker 1: you know, he'd give you like a really good comment

479
00:21:55,960 --> 00:21:58,040
Speaker 1: and you feel like, you know what, he's tougher than

480
00:21:58,040 --> 00:22:00,880
Speaker 1: all of us. You know, Um, I got how about

481
00:22:00,880 --> 00:22:02,200
Speaker 1: how about this one? I got? I got, I'm gonna.

482
00:22:02,200 --> 00:22:03,760
Speaker 1: I hate to play topper story, but i't me the top.

483
00:22:03,840 --> 00:22:06,720
Speaker 1: Now this isn't I wasn't there, but this is the

484
00:22:07,000 --> 00:22:10,680
Speaker 1: famous Eddie Sutton John Potter story. Okay, So Eddie Sutton

485
00:22:10,680 --> 00:22:14,439
Speaker 1: takes over at Oklahoma State and I think it was

486
00:22:14,480 --> 00:22:16,240
Speaker 1: his first year. They they had a dramatic turn around

487
00:22:16,240 --> 00:22:18,080
Speaker 1: his first year. Second year, they started out like twenty

488
00:22:18,119 --> 00:22:20,520
Speaker 1: and oh they won the preseason and I t it's

489
00:22:20,520 --> 00:22:24,960
Speaker 1: guy named John Potter. Who Potter? Talented dude, like I think,

490
00:22:25,000 --> 00:22:31,040
Speaker 1: like six eight white kid, really athletic but smartass um Anyway,

491
00:22:31,280 --> 00:22:35,760
Speaker 1: So at some point practice coaches like none of you

492
00:22:35,840 --> 00:22:39,040
Speaker 1: know how to take a charge. Somebody run me over

493
00:22:39,280 --> 00:22:41,320
Speaker 1: and there's a bunch of dudes, and you know Byron

494
00:22:41,359 --> 00:22:44,520
Speaker 1: Houston's on the team, Big countries on the team. You

495
00:22:44,560 --> 00:22:47,159
Speaker 1: know Corey Williams on the team. These are some built dudes,

496
00:22:47,359 --> 00:22:49,879
Speaker 1: and they're like, no way, I ain't running the old

497
00:22:49,920 --> 00:22:51,520
Speaker 1: man over. And at that time, you know, he's probably

498
00:22:51,520 --> 00:22:53,719
Speaker 1: in his late fifties, but but he's you know, he's

499
00:22:53,760 --> 00:22:57,280
Speaker 1: still toughest nails. And so John Potter is like, well,

500
00:22:57,280 --> 00:22:59,920
Speaker 1: I'll run him over. So Potter gets the basketball and

501
00:23:00,040 --> 00:23:02,439
Speaker 1: takes a couple of dribbles and I mean he plants

502
00:23:02,440 --> 00:23:06,719
Speaker 1: his feet and runs him over. Now, as everybody knows, uh,

503
00:23:06,760 --> 00:23:09,520
Speaker 1: Coach Sutton was a recovering alcoholic at that time and

504
00:23:09,520 --> 00:23:11,800
Speaker 1: obviously had a relapse later in his career, but as

505
00:23:11,880 --> 00:23:14,680
Speaker 1: recovering alcoholic, he he didn't smoke a lot of a

506
00:23:14,680 --> 00:23:17,959
Speaker 1: lot of alcoholics they come addicted to something else. He

507
00:23:18,040 --> 00:23:22,320
Speaker 1: had candy, lots of candy in his pocket, and so

508
00:23:22,359 --> 00:23:24,840
Speaker 1: the story goes Potter runs him over and it's like

509
00:23:24,880 --> 00:23:29,720
Speaker 1: a freaking pinata right where there's just candy everywhere, and

510
00:23:29,720 --> 00:23:33,520
Speaker 1: and people think, like, hell, Potter just killed Coach. Right Meanwhile,

511
00:23:33,520 --> 00:23:35,919
Speaker 1: the managers are scaring around to pick up the candy,

512
00:23:36,000 --> 00:23:37,560
Speaker 1: and you know the other guys are going to pick

513
00:23:37,640 --> 00:23:40,080
Speaker 1: up Coach and like he's like and I'm sure feeling

514
00:23:40,160 --> 00:23:42,280
Speaker 1: was like this too, where he's like pushing guys Out'm

515
00:23:42,280 --> 00:23:45,120
Speaker 1: all right, I'm fine, get that, and he goes Now,

516
00:23:45,160 --> 00:23:48,600
Speaker 1: that's how you take a charge, right. So but the

517
00:23:48,600 --> 00:23:51,520
Speaker 1: best part was this, so the manager's give him all

518
00:23:51,600 --> 00:23:53,600
Speaker 1: is candy stuffs his pocket. He goes over and he

519
00:23:53,640 --> 00:23:56,399
Speaker 1: has a dot PEPSI takes a swig and he walks

520
00:23:56,440 --> 00:23:58,600
Speaker 1: over in the old GALLAGHERI but there's this lock or

521
00:23:58,720 --> 00:24:01,199
Speaker 1: there was this bathroom that only the coaches were allowed

522
00:24:01,240 --> 00:24:03,920
Speaker 1: to use, and it was just kind of off the court,

523
00:24:04,160 --> 00:24:06,760
Speaker 1: kind of tucked away, and he walks over like he's

524
00:24:06,800 --> 00:24:09,040
Speaker 1: gonna go to that bathroom, and no one saw him

525
00:24:09,119 --> 00:24:11,080
Speaker 1: like the rest of the day, like he just disappeared.

526
00:24:11,480 --> 00:24:13,399
Speaker 1: He might add internal bleeding from it. So I know,

527
00:24:13,600 --> 00:24:15,680
Speaker 1: and then here's my other coach getting run over stories.

528
00:24:15,760 --> 00:24:19,720
Speaker 1: So I was pretty friendly with uh Charlie Miller and

529
00:24:19,760 --> 00:24:22,359
Speaker 1: Brian Evans. They played in Indiana and they claimed that

530
00:24:22,400 --> 00:24:26,280
Speaker 1: there was a tape that existed of Bob Knight getting

531
00:24:26,359 --> 00:24:28,280
Speaker 1: run over practice kind of same thing you're talking about

532
00:24:28,280 --> 00:24:31,600
Speaker 1: where coach like forgot they were going transitioning from offense

533
00:24:31,640 --> 00:24:33,960
Speaker 1: to defense, you know, and he's standing in mid court

534
00:24:33,960 --> 00:24:35,359
Speaker 1: and he's yelling at guys and all of a sudden,

535
00:24:35,359 --> 00:24:37,159
Speaker 1: shot goes up and they start running and he's you know,

536
00:24:37,240 --> 00:24:38,440
Speaker 1: he can't get out of the way, and he gets

537
00:24:38,520 --> 00:24:43,560
Speaker 1: run over. And the claim was that the tape was

538
00:24:43,640 --> 00:24:46,480
Speaker 1: in the original for the tape was in the possession

539
00:24:46,480 --> 00:24:48,600
Speaker 1: of a manager, and whenever they'd have a bad day

540
00:24:48,680 --> 00:24:50,800
Speaker 1: or they get kicked out of practice or you know,

541
00:24:50,840 --> 00:24:52,960
Speaker 1: they get kicked out of practice, the guys will go

542
00:24:52,960 --> 00:24:54,679
Speaker 1: over to the manager's house and they'd watch it like

543
00:24:54,720 --> 00:24:56,960
Speaker 1: on repeat, like, let's watch the tape, let's watch the tape.

544
00:24:57,080 --> 00:25:01,359
Speaker 1: Let's watch the tape. Anyway, Um, your your sophomore year,

545
00:25:02,240 --> 00:25:06,440
Speaker 1: you guys only won three games. What I'm not bringing

546
00:25:06,520 --> 00:25:08,560
Speaker 1: up bad things. I just you know, there's all like

547
00:25:08,560 --> 00:25:10,280
Speaker 1: look my freshm year Notre Dame, I think we won

548
00:25:10,400 --> 00:25:12,639
Speaker 1: nine games. And I've never been a part of a

549
00:25:12,840 --> 00:25:15,560
Speaker 1: like you went undefeated your senior year in high school.

550
00:25:15,880 --> 00:25:18,320
Speaker 1: You know, you're a great player, and you go to

551
00:25:18,359 --> 00:25:20,600
Speaker 1: the Mount and they had I don't They've only had

552
00:25:20,600 --> 00:25:23,240
Speaker 1: a couple of losing seasons during his tenure there. You're

553
00:25:23,400 --> 00:25:26,439
Speaker 1: you're you know, your your your junior, you know your sophomore,

554
00:25:26,440 --> 00:25:29,560
Speaker 1: your sophomore, yere you win three games? What's that. What's

555
00:25:29,560 --> 00:25:31,720
Speaker 1: that like? What do you remember? Like? What's that like

556
00:25:31,760 --> 00:25:34,159
Speaker 1: to be a part of? Yeah? You know, you know

557
00:25:34,200 --> 00:25:36,720
Speaker 1: I learned a ton that year. Number One I was

558
00:25:36,760 --> 00:25:38,520
Speaker 1: I was leading score in the team. So I recognize

559
00:25:38,560 --> 00:25:40,080
Speaker 1: that I probably shouldn't be the leading score out of

560
00:25:40,119 --> 00:25:43,560
Speaker 1: any team. Um uh. But you know, I also we

561
00:25:43,760 --> 00:25:47,800
Speaker 1: really the story that year really began with how talented

562
00:25:47,920 --> 00:25:51,560
Speaker 1: the roster we really had. Um. We had, you know,

563
00:25:51,600 --> 00:25:53,200
Speaker 1: we we have some guys. You know. One of the

564
00:25:53,240 --> 00:25:56,199
Speaker 1: guys we had was Melvin Whittaker, who had had an

565
00:25:56,200 --> 00:25:58,720
Speaker 1: incident Virginia with the top five player come out of

566
00:25:58,760 --> 00:26:01,679
Speaker 1: high school. He was on our team that year, and

567
00:26:01,760 --> 00:26:05,399
Speaker 1: so we'd really build our team around him, who is

568
00:26:05,480 --> 00:26:08,359
Speaker 1: super talented and um, we love him the death. He's

569
00:26:08,359 --> 00:26:11,360
Speaker 1: an amazing person. Um. And we had three or four

570
00:26:11,400 --> 00:26:14,720
Speaker 1: other talented guys probably at that same level. And what

571
00:26:14,880 --> 00:26:18,160
Speaker 1: happened that year was those guys never played. They never

572
00:26:18,160 --> 00:26:19,800
Speaker 1: made it to the start of the season. They for

573
00:26:19,880 --> 00:26:22,159
Speaker 1: whatever reason they didn't make it there, whether it was

574
00:26:22,200 --> 00:26:25,320
Speaker 1: for discipline or academics, we never had a chance to

575
00:26:25,359 --> 00:26:28,320
Speaker 1: put our best guys on the floor. Um. And so

576
00:26:28,359 --> 00:26:31,240
Speaker 1: therefore it pushed a bunch of players, including myself into

577
00:26:31,280 --> 00:26:35,320
Speaker 1: an opportunity that maybe we weren't talented enough for right

578
00:26:35,359 --> 00:26:38,080
Speaker 1: and UM, and so what I learned from that, Um,

579
00:26:38,160 --> 00:26:39,760
Speaker 1: there's again there's a bunch of things. One of the

580
00:26:39,760 --> 00:26:41,680
Speaker 1: biggest things I learned from that is, you know, your

581
00:26:41,880 --> 00:26:44,479
Speaker 1: very best players have to have the highest level of

582
00:26:44,600 --> 00:26:47,320
Speaker 1: character and understanding for what the best the betterment of

583
00:26:47,320 --> 00:26:50,800
Speaker 1: the organization. UM. Now, these guys are talented. You're gonna

584
00:26:50,840 --> 00:26:54,040
Speaker 1: try to take take talented guys, but they we just

585
00:26:54,160 --> 00:26:56,639
Speaker 1: we didn't get those guys on the floor together for discipline.

586
00:26:57,080 --> 00:26:59,000
Speaker 1: And that's why I'm so you know, every coach talked

587
00:26:59,000 --> 00:27:01,000
Speaker 1: about this one. That's why I've seen it. I've seen

588
00:27:01,000 --> 00:27:02,720
Speaker 1: what it could do for a team. I've seen you

589
00:27:02,760 --> 00:27:04,840
Speaker 1: know what happens. I know what happens into that locker room.

590
00:27:04,840 --> 00:27:06,959
Speaker 1: And you don't have that level of discipline for your

591
00:27:07,040 --> 00:27:09,400
Speaker 1: very best guys. You've got to be able to coach

592
00:27:09,440 --> 00:27:11,200
Speaker 1: your very best players. They've got to have that level

593
00:27:11,240 --> 00:27:13,639
Speaker 1: of discipline that changes things, that kind of police the

594
00:27:13,680 --> 00:27:15,880
Speaker 1: locker room in itself. And if you have a guy

595
00:27:15,920 --> 00:27:17,720
Speaker 1: who's the top it was a top player for you,

596
00:27:18,000 --> 00:27:19,680
Speaker 1: and he doesn't that level of discipline, then you've got

597
00:27:19,680 --> 00:27:21,440
Speaker 1: to really try to find a way to establish someone

598
00:27:21,480 --> 00:27:24,800
Speaker 1: else that can do that. UM. And so I remember

599
00:27:24,840 --> 00:27:27,320
Speaker 1: that about that year. UM. You know, we actually had

600
00:27:27,359 --> 00:27:31,000
Speaker 1: pretty good team camaraderie that year. Um, we got along

601
00:27:31,040 --> 00:27:33,080
Speaker 1: really well, but we just had a lot of guys

602
00:27:33,119 --> 00:27:35,960
Speaker 1: getting in trouble for things that were not basketball related,

603
00:27:36,000 --> 00:27:40,280
Speaker 1: Like our focus wasn't on basketball, UM, and so a

604
00:27:40,320 --> 00:27:41,600
Speaker 1: lot of things that are happening. We had a lot

605
00:27:41,600 --> 00:27:43,359
Speaker 1: of academic issues that year, you know, a lot of

606
00:27:43,400 --> 00:27:47,240
Speaker 1: guys UM again with academic council, and it was just

607
00:27:47,240 --> 00:27:49,399
Speaker 1: one of those years where it was like, you know,

608
00:27:49,440 --> 00:27:51,359
Speaker 1: we've still got along great on the basketball floor, but

609
00:27:51,400 --> 00:27:53,359
Speaker 1: every day there was a level of distraction that was

610
00:27:53,400 --> 00:27:56,320
Speaker 1: creative from someone within that locker room. And and so

611
00:27:56,520 --> 00:27:59,000
Speaker 1: that I mean, every coach fights against distraction, but there's

612
00:27:59,040 --> 00:28:01,600
Speaker 1: no bigger distraction and distractions that was in that locker room.

613
00:28:01,880 --> 00:28:03,760
Speaker 1: And we had that that year. And that's why we've

614
00:28:03,760 --> 00:28:05,800
Speaker 1: spent so much time really talking about doing the commodity,

615
00:28:05,880 --> 00:28:07,800
Speaker 1: trying to address those kind of issues in our accruiting

616
00:28:08,080 --> 00:28:09,560
Speaker 1: and doing a great job of building that kind of

617
00:28:09,600 --> 00:28:13,800
Speaker 1: personal discipline because talent. Everyone has talent, but that discipline

618
00:28:13,800 --> 00:28:17,639
Speaker 1: is what separates you your first college coaching experiences at

619
00:28:17,640 --> 00:28:21,080
Speaker 1: Emery and Henry, which the little I know about it,

620
00:28:21,040 --> 00:28:23,320
Speaker 1: it's a tiny like all, it's like one of the

621
00:28:23,320 --> 00:28:26,119
Speaker 1: oldest schools in the country, I think, and and definitely

622
00:28:26,119 --> 00:28:28,280
Speaker 1: in the in the state of Virginia. And it's way

623
00:28:28,320 --> 00:28:33,280
Speaker 1: out in like what southwestern Virginia. What was that like? Yeah,

624
00:28:33,400 --> 00:28:37,639
Speaker 1: it's uh, it's like an hour and twenty minutes past Roanoke, Virginia. Um,

625
00:28:37,680 --> 00:28:40,280
Speaker 1: it's in that little corner between you know, we're we're right,

626
00:28:40,400 --> 00:28:43,840
Speaker 1: We're almost in West Virginia, almost in Tennessee, almost North Carolina.

627
00:28:43,920 --> 00:28:46,800
Speaker 1: So it's in a beautiful part of Appalachian Mountains. Um.

628
00:28:46,880 --> 00:28:48,720
Speaker 1: But I worked for a guy named Bob Johnson there

629
00:28:49,320 --> 00:28:52,480
Speaker 1: and Coach Johnson is one of these legendary guys. The

630
00:28:52,520 --> 00:28:54,880
Speaker 1: ODAK Coach of the Year ward is named after him.

631
00:28:55,040 --> 00:28:57,480
Speaker 1: We've had great coaches there. Nathan Davis who's at Buck Mill,

632
00:28:57,840 --> 00:29:00,440
Speaker 1: Jimmy Allen is a head coach of Army, John Halfanho

633
00:29:00,600 --> 00:29:02,920
Speaker 1: who's the head coach at I p f W, Mike

634
00:29:03,000 --> 00:29:05,560
Speaker 1: young has An the head coach at Virginia Virginia Tech,

635
00:29:05,920 --> 00:29:08,280
Speaker 1: and my brother throughout, Christian is the head coach for

636
00:29:08,320 --> 00:29:10,200
Speaker 1: the Washington, go go with the G League team here

637
00:29:10,200 --> 00:29:13,120
Speaker 1: in d C. And obviously myself here at g w UM.

638
00:29:13,120 --> 00:29:17,040
Speaker 1: We all worked there. We all worked there almost in

639
00:29:17,120 --> 00:29:20,040
Speaker 1: succession UM, which is really unique. But it talks about

640
00:29:20,040 --> 00:29:22,840
Speaker 1: it speaks about his leadership style. You know, there he

641
00:29:22,920 --> 00:29:25,840
Speaker 1: was an unbelievable leader. He was an army ranger. So

642
00:29:25,880 --> 00:29:28,920
Speaker 1: he's a guy that really understood leadership UM and he

643
00:29:29,040 --> 00:29:31,120
Speaker 1: really taught us well, you know, I mean, can you

644
00:29:31,160 --> 00:29:33,920
Speaker 1: imagine I'm coming in at twenty one years old. I

645
00:29:33,960 --> 00:29:35,720
Speaker 1: come into his office and this guy has been coaching

646
00:29:35,760 --> 00:29:38,719
Speaker 1: for twenty five plus years, and he's gonna teach me

647
00:29:38,760 --> 00:29:40,760
Speaker 1: how to be a basketball coach. He's gonna teach me

648
00:29:40,800 --> 00:29:43,400
Speaker 1: how to recruit and teach me how to manage our team.

649
00:29:43,440 --> 00:29:44,760
Speaker 1: You know, I feel like a lot of times now

650
00:29:44,800 --> 00:29:46,960
Speaker 1: people come into the business and we just kind of

651
00:29:46,960 --> 00:29:48,360
Speaker 1: throw them to the walls and they had to figure

652
00:29:48,360 --> 00:29:50,360
Speaker 1: it all out. I didn't have that. None of us

653
00:29:50,360 --> 00:29:52,160
Speaker 1: those guys I listed, none of us had that. We

654
00:29:52,240 --> 00:29:55,160
Speaker 1: had a head coach who was personally invested in us

655
00:29:55,280 --> 00:29:58,560
Speaker 1: learning how to teach the game and learning how they evaluate,

656
00:29:58,680 --> 00:30:00,520
Speaker 1: and he would have been it was some of the

657
00:30:00,640 --> 00:30:03,520
Speaker 1: hours with us every day, teaching us the values of

658
00:30:03,520 --> 00:30:06,040
Speaker 1: of of what you needed to do. And um, he's

659
00:30:06,080 --> 00:30:09,400
Speaker 1: just an unbelievable person, unbelievable teacher. You know, the story

660
00:30:09,400 --> 00:30:11,800
Speaker 1: of him really lives on in all of us because

661
00:30:11,880 --> 00:30:13,960
Speaker 1: we're you know, when I watched you know, I watched

662
00:30:13,960 --> 00:30:16,120
Speaker 1: Walton play last and the NTA tournament. I saw stuff

663
00:30:16,120 --> 00:30:17,760
Speaker 1: we did at Emery and Henry, and I'll watched Nathan

664
00:30:17,760 --> 00:30:19,760
Speaker 1: at buck. Now we watched stuff we did Emery and Henry,

665
00:30:19,760 --> 00:30:22,640
Speaker 1: and we had this camaraderie amongst ourselves of this family

666
00:30:23,000 --> 00:30:25,200
Speaker 1: where we can really talk and communicate about some things

667
00:30:25,200 --> 00:30:27,920
Speaker 1: because we all had the same foundation. Um. While there,

668
00:30:27,960 --> 00:30:30,160
Speaker 1: we played one of the fastest styles and in contst,

669
00:30:30,360 --> 00:30:32,720
Speaker 1: you would have loved this um with your ability to

670
00:30:32,760 --> 00:30:34,800
Speaker 1: pass and see the floor. Um. But we you know,

671
00:30:34,840 --> 00:30:36,600
Speaker 1: when year we after a hundred and five points of game,

672
00:30:36,680 --> 00:30:38,640
Speaker 1: we shot a ton of threes and we're kind of

673
00:30:38,640 --> 00:30:40,360
Speaker 1: on this, you know because now at the time was

674
00:30:40,440 --> 00:30:41,920
Speaker 1: doing it and we were the only other team in

675
00:30:41,960 --> 00:30:44,000
Speaker 1: the country doing it. But we just took a whole

676
00:30:44,040 --> 00:30:46,920
Speaker 1: different style and a whole different approach and really really

677
00:30:46,960 --> 00:30:50,240
Speaker 1: created a really strong program there for years playing a

678
00:30:50,240 --> 00:30:53,240
Speaker 1: different style. Okay, so then you go to buck Now,

679
00:30:53,320 --> 00:30:55,000
Speaker 1: it was with you were Flannery at at buck Now,

680
00:30:55,040 --> 00:31:01,320
Speaker 1: weren't you? Absolutely what was was well when is he's amazing,

681
00:31:01,360 --> 00:31:03,280
Speaker 1: He's one of her kind. Um, one of the most

682
00:31:03,600 --> 00:31:06,040
Speaker 1: people I have ever been around understands his system be

683
00:31:06,280 --> 00:31:08,320
Speaker 1: better than any. But he was a guy. He was

684
00:31:08,520 --> 00:31:10,440
Speaker 1: he was a business guy. When he graduated from buck Now,

685
00:31:10,520 --> 00:31:12,520
Speaker 1: he went right in the business. So the ring he

686
00:31:12,600 --> 00:31:14,920
Speaker 1: ran on office was unbelievable. I was just I was

687
00:31:15,000 --> 00:31:18,720
Speaker 1: his manager best operations, um, and I you know, therefore

688
00:31:18,800 --> 00:31:20,360
Speaker 1: I was basically like his right hand man when he

689
00:31:20,400 --> 00:31:22,880
Speaker 1: went to meetings, when he organized our program, when he

690
00:31:22,880 --> 00:31:25,400
Speaker 1: went to fundraising events, you know, all that stuff. I

691
00:31:25,440 --> 00:31:27,800
Speaker 1: had the opportunity. The way he used me has helped

692
00:31:27,800 --> 00:31:30,920
Speaker 1: me so much because I learned with him how to

693
00:31:30,960 --> 00:31:33,080
Speaker 1: how to run a program, right. I mean, how many

694
00:31:33,160 --> 00:31:35,080
Speaker 1: how many guys come through they do othering and ain't

695
00:31:35,080 --> 00:31:36,280
Speaker 1: not a group and they don't know how to run

696
00:31:36,280 --> 00:31:38,400
Speaker 1: a program that they don't how to manage his staff,

697
00:31:38,800 --> 00:31:42,000
Speaker 1: didn't have the manager their fundraising. Well, I was right

698
00:31:42,000 --> 00:31:43,800
Speaker 1: there with him, you know, at the peak of buck

699
00:31:43,840 --> 00:31:46,400
Speaker 1: Now when it was really, really, really good, Um, and

700
00:31:46,440 --> 00:31:47,800
Speaker 1: I got a chance to be there with him every

701
00:31:47,800 --> 00:31:49,800
Speaker 1: single day, and he would spend time with me and

702
00:31:49,840 --> 00:31:51,520
Speaker 1: teach me, and I would get a chance to watch him,

703
00:31:51,520 --> 00:31:53,360
Speaker 1: and it's kind of like being on like a like

704
00:31:53,400 --> 00:31:56,680
Speaker 1: a protegee beside him on his side, and um, so

705
00:31:56,720 --> 00:31:58,440
Speaker 1: I just learned so much about how to run a program.

706
00:31:58,440 --> 00:32:00,640
Speaker 1: I learned so much about, you know, how to operate

707
00:32:00,680 --> 00:32:03,360
Speaker 1: on campus. He was a Bucknell graduate, so he was

708
00:32:03,360 --> 00:32:05,560
Speaker 1: really able to utilize the research we had on campus

709
00:32:05,560 --> 00:32:07,280
Speaker 1: and the people we had on campus, like like the

710
00:32:07,280 --> 00:32:11,000
Speaker 1: way the elevated, So you know, like if if players

711
00:32:11,000 --> 00:32:13,960
Speaker 1: needed internships, right, I mean, sometimes when you're coming to

712
00:32:13,960 --> 00:32:15,080
Speaker 1: a new place, like one of them have to do

713
00:32:15,120 --> 00:32:17,280
Speaker 1: here at w have to really connect with our alums.

714
00:32:17,600 --> 00:32:19,680
Speaker 1: So when our guys need internships in different areas, I'm

715
00:32:19,720 --> 00:32:23,120
Speaker 1: able to help them navigate that. But coach Flann was there,

716
00:32:23,200 --> 00:32:25,200
Speaker 1: he'd been there for a long time and he played there,

717
00:32:25,240 --> 00:32:28,000
Speaker 1: so he could really connect them, you know, with with

718
00:32:28,120 --> 00:32:30,880
Speaker 1: internship opportunities that they needed. If you know, if someone

719
00:32:30,920 --> 00:32:33,120
Speaker 1: has if someone is having an issue on campus that

720
00:32:33,240 --> 00:32:35,400
Speaker 1: was that they maybe need to help for, he could

721
00:32:35,400 --> 00:32:37,880
Speaker 1: connect them to that person right away because he was

722
00:32:38,080 --> 00:32:40,080
Speaker 1: because he played there and he was a lum he

723
00:32:40,240 --> 00:32:42,200
Speaker 1: cared so much about the place, and he cared so

724
00:32:42,240 --> 00:32:45,040
Speaker 1: much about the guy that he really coached it differently

725
00:32:45,240 --> 00:32:46,600
Speaker 1: than a lot of times when guys when they show

726
00:32:46,680 --> 00:32:48,800
Speaker 1: up sometimes people treat it like a job. He didn't

727
00:32:48,840 --> 00:32:50,400
Speaker 1: treat it like it was his job. He treated like

728
00:32:50,440 --> 00:32:53,280
Speaker 1: it was his life. What was that? Was great to see?

729
00:32:53,440 --> 00:32:55,360
Speaker 1: So then you go to William and Mary with with

730
00:32:55,400 --> 00:32:58,680
Speaker 1: Tony Shaver. What what was he like? Man Shaver is

731
00:32:58,720 --> 00:33:01,640
Speaker 1: the best. I mean, he's a guy that reinvented himself.

732
00:33:01,680 --> 00:33:03,840
Speaker 1: You know, he's at Hampton Sydney and they're playing up

733
00:33:03,920 --> 00:33:06,120
Speaker 1: tempo and Division three. They playing up tempo and they're

734
00:33:06,120 --> 00:33:08,520
Speaker 1: trapping and pressing and they're playing a certain way. And

735
00:33:08,520 --> 00:33:11,040
Speaker 1: then he goes to Women Mary and the first couple

736
00:33:11,040 --> 00:33:12,240
Speaker 1: of years he tries to do that, it does it

737
00:33:12,280 --> 00:33:14,960
Speaker 1: doesn't get the results that that that he that he wants,

738
00:33:15,400 --> 00:33:18,000
Speaker 1: and therefore he changes up. He goes to two guard

739
00:33:18,040 --> 00:33:20,960
Speaker 1: style of play, which is like a Princeton Um Princeton

740
00:33:21,000 --> 00:33:24,240
Speaker 1: Michigan kind of hybrid and and really reinvents himself, goes

741
00:33:24,280 --> 00:33:26,320
Speaker 1: to play a half court man to Man and Um.

742
00:33:26,320 --> 00:33:28,240
Speaker 1: I've always admired him because I think it's really hard

743
00:33:28,240 --> 00:33:30,440
Speaker 1: for guy to reinvent themselves and he was able to

744
00:33:30,440 --> 00:33:32,200
Speaker 1: do that. And because he did that, he was able

745
00:33:32,200 --> 00:33:34,479
Speaker 1: to create a level of consistency at Women Mary that

746
00:33:34,600 --> 00:33:37,080
Speaker 1: no one had done before. I mean, really, his time

747
00:33:37,120 --> 00:33:39,760
Speaker 1: there is historic because he was able to create a

748
00:33:39,840 --> 00:33:42,680
Speaker 1: level of consistency. Again, no one had been able to

749
00:33:42,720 --> 00:33:45,080
Speaker 1: do that before. They had some rises, but they had

750
00:33:45,080 --> 00:33:46,640
Speaker 1: a lot more fault He was just great. He was

751
00:33:46,680 --> 00:33:49,120
Speaker 1: really consistent with it, recruiting the right kind of guys,

752
00:33:49,160 --> 00:33:51,280
Speaker 1: do what he was supposed to do. Um, you know,

753
00:33:51,360 --> 00:33:52,960
Speaker 1: so he I learned a lot like what I learned

754
00:33:53,000 --> 00:33:55,360
Speaker 1: that Women Mary. I'm gonna use a lot here at

755
00:33:55,360 --> 00:33:58,280
Speaker 1: g W but the academic with the academic stuff of

756
00:33:59,360 --> 00:34:01,680
Speaker 1: the academic profile, what we need to do and how

757
00:34:01,680 --> 00:34:03,880
Speaker 1: to really use that to the best ability. So then

758
00:34:03,920 --> 00:34:05,960
Speaker 1: you go work for Shaka, and you went to work

759
00:34:05,960 --> 00:34:09,439
Speaker 1: for Shaka after the final four? Right? So Nick, now

760
00:34:10,360 --> 00:34:14,400
Speaker 1: expectations are to the moon, right, and people forget what's

761
00:34:14,440 --> 00:34:17,640
Speaker 1: interesting about about after the final four, Like that probably

762
00:34:17,680 --> 00:34:20,319
Speaker 1: wasn't even his best team. That team just snuck into

763
00:34:20,360 --> 00:34:22,600
Speaker 1: the n c A tournament. He actually had better teams.

764
00:34:22,640 --> 00:34:25,040
Speaker 1: But you know, we we so react to what you

765
00:34:25,080 --> 00:34:27,640
Speaker 1: do in the n c A tournament. What was that

766
00:34:27,680 --> 00:34:29,840
Speaker 1: like to be a part of Right, because you have

767
00:34:29,960 --> 00:34:34,040
Speaker 1: now Shaka's incredible mediorc rise, you got the expectations come

768
00:34:34,080 --> 00:34:36,680
Speaker 1: off of final four, you got still in Virginia, but

769
00:34:37,160 --> 00:34:39,399
Speaker 1: you know, a different area and a completely different beast

770
00:34:39,440 --> 00:34:42,239
Speaker 1: and a different type of student athlete at VCU. What

771
00:34:42,280 --> 00:34:45,400
Speaker 1: was that? What was that like? Well, you know, coaches

772
00:34:45,400 --> 00:34:47,360
Speaker 1: don't believe. I always say working at VCU is like

773
00:34:47,360 --> 00:34:52,560
Speaker 1: getting a PhD in leadership in in coaching. Um, it

774
00:34:52,640 --> 00:34:54,279
Speaker 1: was an amazing journey you did. You come there? And

775
00:34:54,280 --> 00:34:56,600
Speaker 1: I think most people are afraid Gold school like, afraid

776
00:34:56,640 --> 00:35:00,239
Speaker 1: of expectation. Um. You know, I always say expectations enemy.

777
00:35:00,280 --> 00:35:02,040
Speaker 1: So I just kind of pushed expectations to the side.

778
00:35:02,080 --> 00:35:04,040
Speaker 1: I think what we all have to do is we

779
00:35:04,080 --> 00:35:05,960
Speaker 1: have to do the very best job with the information

780
00:35:05,960 --> 00:35:07,600
Speaker 1: that we have, with the people that we have around us,

781
00:35:07,760 --> 00:35:09,560
Speaker 1: and we have to fall in love with the process.

782
00:35:09,640 --> 00:35:11,200
Speaker 1: And you know, I think a lot of people might

783
00:35:11,200 --> 00:35:13,279
Speaker 1: have come in that situation and thought about the expectation. Right,

784
00:35:13,280 --> 00:35:15,319
Speaker 1: we're coming off there, they're coming off the final four.

785
00:35:15,600 --> 00:35:17,279
Speaker 1: I'm trying to prove my worth here with you know,

786
00:35:17,320 --> 00:35:19,600
Speaker 1: real ways on staff there, Mike roads on staff there,

787
00:35:19,840 --> 00:35:21,839
Speaker 1: like RELs on staff there. I mean, you know, Mike

788
00:35:21,920 --> 00:35:23,800
Speaker 1: Jones just left to be the head couch of Rapper.

789
00:35:23,880 --> 00:35:25,640
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, you're stepping in there and you've

790
00:35:25,640 --> 00:35:28,480
Speaker 1: gotta you gotta prove your worth. And I just felt

791
00:35:28,520 --> 00:35:30,080
Speaker 1: like the best way for me to prove my worth

792
00:35:30,239 --> 00:35:32,040
Speaker 1: was to do a great job every single day and

793
00:35:32,080 --> 00:35:34,279
Speaker 1: barely locked into that process, to be as connected with

794
00:35:34,320 --> 00:35:36,480
Speaker 1: the players as we could, and just to help them

795
00:35:36,520 --> 00:35:38,759
Speaker 1: improve it. You know, that team that that I came

796
00:35:38,800 --> 00:35:41,759
Speaker 1: into lost four stars from the final four team. We

797
00:35:41,800 --> 00:35:44,359
Speaker 1: had Troy Daniels who hadn't played very much up to

798
00:35:44,360 --> 00:35:46,319
Speaker 1: that point of his career. We had trade On Graham

799
00:35:46,360 --> 00:35:48,600
Speaker 1: coming into freshman or Bryanty were coming in as a freshman.

800
00:35:48,760 --> 00:35:51,920
Speaker 1: Spanta Reddick hadn't played much. Um, that group didn't have

801
00:35:51,960 --> 00:35:53,919
Speaker 1: a lot coming back. All we have really Brad Brad

802
00:35:53,960 --> 00:35:56,799
Speaker 1: Burgess um, and so we just had such a sense

803
00:35:56,840 --> 00:35:59,520
Speaker 1: of purpose for making sure that we're going to be

804
00:35:59,520 --> 00:36:01,440
Speaker 1: the very best we could be, and we really were

805
00:36:01,480 --> 00:36:05,279
Speaker 1: determined to do that. Um. It was different in the

806
00:36:05,320 --> 00:36:08,040
Speaker 1: sense of the players there. And I noticed this at

807
00:36:08,080 --> 00:36:10,520
Speaker 1: buck now, but I didn't really recognize it's strongly enough

808
00:36:10,520 --> 00:36:12,600
Speaker 1: to talk got the DCU. When you come to a

809
00:36:12,640 --> 00:36:15,839
Speaker 1: program that has great tradition, the players want to rise

810
00:36:15,920 --> 00:36:18,200
Speaker 1: to that standard of that tradition. And I don't think

811
00:36:18,239 --> 00:36:20,120
Speaker 1: that's what people and people don't understand that, Like we're

812
00:36:20,160 --> 00:36:22,560
Speaker 1: at a program who doesn't have tradition. People don't understand

813
00:36:22,560 --> 00:36:24,799
Speaker 1: how to rise to that standard where that tradition is.

814
00:36:24,880 --> 00:36:26,239
Speaker 1: I'm sure you saw that when you were at Notre

815
00:36:26,320 --> 00:36:28,839
Speaker 1: Dame anto Coloma State, but at dc U and at

816
00:36:28,840 --> 00:36:31,560
Speaker 1: g W and around St. Mary's and Buck Now there's

817
00:36:31,560 --> 00:36:34,000
Speaker 1: a tradition that people are rising to that standard all

818
00:36:34,040 --> 00:36:36,680
Speaker 1: the time. I mean listen, like the like the Kansas

819
00:36:36,719 --> 00:36:38,799
Speaker 1: guys even this last year, Like I've been around Kansas

820
00:36:38,840 --> 00:36:41,200
Speaker 1: program probably the last six seven years doing some uh

821
00:36:41,280 --> 00:36:44,960
Speaker 1: they have like a old man old man like fantasy camp, right,

822
00:36:45,239 --> 00:36:46,960
Speaker 1: but you talk to their players and their whole thing

823
00:36:47,000 --> 00:36:48,440
Speaker 1: was like, we don't want to be the team that

824
00:36:48,520 --> 00:36:51,520
Speaker 1: loses the streak, you know, and we just don't like

825
00:36:51,560 --> 00:36:53,560
Speaker 1: it be like we don't want to be because because

826
00:36:53,600 --> 00:36:55,200
Speaker 1: I mean, I can tell you like Ocloom State obviously

827
00:36:55,239 --> 00:36:58,360
Speaker 1: struggle the last couple of years. But and there's a

828
00:36:58,360 --> 00:37:00,640
Speaker 1: certain kind of arrogance with former players like look, we

829
00:37:00,640 --> 00:37:03,279
Speaker 1: we weren't always great, but we were always good. And

830
00:37:03,640 --> 00:37:05,040
Speaker 1: if you want to be in the club, you know,

831
00:37:05,120 --> 00:37:07,040
Speaker 1: you want to be in the cool former player club,

832
00:37:07,239 --> 00:37:09,160
Speaker 1: you gotta be good and you gotta play the right way.

833
00:37:09,160 --> 00:37:11,160
Speaker 1: And I totally get that with v C. That's how

834
00:37:11,160 --> 00:37:13,920
Speaker 1: they've been able to sustain through all these different coaches, Right,

835
00:37:13,960 --> 00:37:16,680
Speaker 1: you name the coach there, there's a standard that's set

836
00:37:16,719 --> 00:37:19,720
Speaker 1: and there's just a we don't um I do wonder

837
00:37:20,360 --> 00:37:26,720
Speaker 1: the rivalry with Richmond, um, I've I mean she became

838
00:37:26,760 --> 00:37:29,920
Speaker 1: aware of it around that time. For people who don't know,

839
00:37:30,040 --> 00:37:34,080
Speaker 1: like what is what? What is that game? Like? Well,

840
00:37:34,080 --> 00:37:35,880
Speaker 1: there's I got it from a couple of differ perspective

841
00:37:35,880 --> 00:37:38,920
Speaker 1: because I grew up twenty minutes outside outside of Richmond, right,

842
00:37:38,960 --> 00:37:42,000
Speaker 1: So you know, growing up in the in the nineties,

843
00:37:42,200 --> 00:37:44,560
Speaker 1: Richmond basketball was was amazing. Right, you do what the

844
00:37:44,760 --> 00:37:46,560
Speaker 1: Richmond it might have been the c A at that time.

845
00:37:46,560 --> 00:37:48,279
Speaker 1: She is on the best leagues. You know, you grew

846
00:37:48,320 --> 00:37:50,560
Speaker 1: up in in in that area of Virginia. You're looking

847
00:37:50,560 --> 00:37:53,200
Speaker 1: at a SEC basketball, looking at CIA basketball, and at

848
00:37:53,200 --> 00:37:55,480
Speaker 1: the time that she was playing in a league, it's

849
00:37:55,520 --> 00:37:57,440
Speaker 1: like Louisville No playing against a bunch of teams that

850
00:37:57,480 --> 00:37:59,680
Speaker 1: were kind of on the outskirts that you didn't really

851
00:37:59,719 --> 00:38:02,600
Speaker 1: have great familiarity with. So Richmond was kind of the tomb.

852
00:38:02,840 --> 00:38:05,000
Speaker 1: You know, you're growing up, you're watching Richmond. You're saying, well,

853
00:38:05,040 --> 00:38:07,280
Speaker 1: like they're really good. You know, they had guys like Johnny,

854
00:38:07,520 --> 00:38:10,040
Speaker 1: they had guys like Johnny Newman. They had really good teams.

855
00:38:10,040 --> 00:38:12,600
Speaker 1: They're going they're winning games the NVIA Tournament. And Richmond

856
00:38:12,640 --> 00:38:14,640
Speaker 1: was and and VC was kind of school in the city,

857
00:38:14,640 --> 00:38:15,880
Speaker 1: in the part of the city that you didn't go

858
00:38:15,960 --> 00:38:18,880
Speaker 1: to that you never really knew where it was. You know,

859
00:38:18,880 --> 00:38:20,680
Speaker 1: you're driving the city, you could be the only place

860
00:38:20,719 --> 00:38:23,239
Speaker 1: you knew it was a VCU Medical Center. So what's

861
00:38:23,280 --> 00:38:25,960
Speaker 1: happened It's been amazing to watch as a person group

862
00:38:25,960 --> 00:38:28,720
Speaker 1: in that area, you know, VCU making that rise, starting

863
00:38:28,760 --> 00:38:31,759
Speaker 1: with starting really with Jeff Capel and that crew there.

864
00:38:31,800 --> 00:38:34,760
Speaker 1: As they started being really consistent there and they started

865
00:38:34,760 --> 00:38:37,640
Speaker 1: getting great leadership with North Tigue and Mike Ellison, guys

866
00:38:37,680 --> 00:38:40,160
Speaker 1: like that coming in there just having great leadership. They

867
00:38:40,200 --> 00:38:43,279
Speaker 1: started consistently getting better. And then what happened is, you know,

868
00:38:43,320 --> 00:38:45,160
Speaker 1: you go Jeff Capel, you have Anthony Grant, and you

869
00:38:45,200 --> 00:38:47,719
Speaker 1: go shaka smart. They hit hard, They had great on

870
00:38:47,880 --> 00:38:51,480
Speaker 1: three straight hires that continued to elevate the program in

871
00:38:51,520 --> 00:38:55,239
Speaker 1: a succession. And so now you've got Richmond, who's traditionally

872
00:38:55,280 --> 00:38:58,040
Speaker 1: been very, very good, and you've got VC is kind

873
00:38:58,040 --> 00:39:01,120
Speaker 1: of like the upstart, and VC has the advantage in

874
00:39:01,160 --> 00:39:04,160
Speaker 1: the sense of they're like the newest program and they're

875
00:39:04,200 --> 00:39:07,279
Speaker 1: rebranding themselves, all right, and then you think about that

876
00:39:07,320 --> 00:39:09,480
Speaker 1: and you're hitting that, you're hitting the internet stuff, that

877
00:39:09,520 --> 00:39:11,839
Speaker 1: your tube stuff, well, VIC, you got good right when

878
00:39:11,840 --> 00:39:14,680
Speaker 1: all that stuff hits, the social media stuff hits, so

879
00:39:14,719 --> 00:39:18,040
Speaker 1: that opportunity to rebrand itself with shock of the world

880
00:39:18,120 --> 00:39:19,680
Speaker 1: and and how they're able to do that in main

881
00:39:19,760 --> 00:39:22,160
Speaker 1: or hitting the shot versus Duke, it just all kind

882
00:39:22,160 --> 00:39:25,040
Speaker 1: of comes to a head boom, and now the librry

883
00:39:25,200 --> 00:39:28,560
Speaker 1: is bigger than it's ever been because both programs. One's

884
00:39:28,560 --> 00:39:31,160
Speaker 1: being consistently really good in that area for a long

885
00:39:31,200 --> 00:39:34,359
Speaker 1: time and the others kind of this upstart that's really

886
00:39:34,400 --> 00:39:36,040
Speaker 1: coming at you in a lot of different ways. It's

887
00:39:36,080 --> 00:39:39,000
Speaker 1: a new age field. Um so getting ready for that

888
00:39:39,040 --> 00:39:43,120
Speaker 1: game and it's a It's an incredible week because number one,

889
00:39:43,280 --> 00:39:44,840
Speaker 1: Richmond's very good and you know, if you're on the

890
00:39:44,880 --> 00:39:46,480
Speaker 1: other side, you know VIC is very good. They played

891
00:39:46,480 --> 00:39:49,120
Speaker 1: two different styles, ones up tempo, one is really slow

892
00:39:49,200 --> 00:39:52,200
Speaker 1: and um but it's it's it's incredible week because you

893
00:39:52,239 --> 00:39:54,120
Speaker 1: have a lot of respect for the opponent across from you,

894
00:39:54,200 --> 00:39:55,480
Speaker 1: but you also know you're gonna have to be at

895
00:39:55,480 --> 00:39:57,000
Speaker 1: your very best. You have to have your emotion in

896
00:39:57,040 --> 00:39:59,760
Speaker 1: the right place. And what's crazy about your year? Like again,

897
00:39:59,840 --> 00:40:01,799
Speaker 1: I say, you come out to final four year and

898
00:40:01,840 --> 00:40:04,160
Speaker 1: people think that's a better year, your year a VC

899
00:40:04,400 --> 00:40:07,239
Speaker 1: I actually actually won twenty nine games, which was at

900
00:40:07,239 --> 00:40:10,480
Speaker 1: the time the most in school history, but it feels

901
00:40:10,520 --> 00:40:11,840
Speaker 1: like a let down because he didn't get to a

902
00:40:12,120 --> 00:40:16,200
Speaker 1: to a final four. Okay, So what was the process

903
00:40:16,200 --> 00:40:20,960
Speaker 1: like of seasons over and you get offered the job

904
00:40:21,280 --> 00:40:25,839
Speaker 1: at your alma mater. Well, I think people understand it's

905
00:40:25,840 --> 00:40:28,320
Speaker 1: only athletic directors kind of understand how stressful time that

906
00:40:28,440 --> 00:40:31,600
Speaker 1: is for coaches. You know, the year ends, and number one,

907
00:40:31,719 --> 00:40:33,799
Speaker 1: if you're doing it right, you're putting everything you can

908
00:40:33,880 --> 00:40:36,560
Speaker 1: into your team, every ounce of energy you have, every

909
00:40:36,560 --> 00:40:39,200
Speaker 1: ounce of emotion. You're going into that last game no

910
00:40:39,200 --> 00:40:42,680
Speaker 1: matter who you're playing, and you're you're preparing to win. Emotionally,

911
00:40:42,680 --> 00:40:45,560
Speaker 1: you're there to win, and so it ends it's like

912
00:40:46,400 --> 00:40:49,319
Speaker 1: it's one of the hardest things to recover from. And

913
00:40:49,400 --> 00:40:51,279
Speaker 1: so that happens, and then you get an opportunity, you

914
00:40:51,320 --> 00:40:54,000
Speaker 1: get a call and that athlete director usually wants you

915
00:40:54,040 --> 00:40:56,960
Speaker 1: to make a decision almost right away, and then you're

916
00:40:57,000 --> 00:40:59,279
Speaker 1: just not an emotional place to make that kind of

917
00:40:59,440 --> 00:41:03,400
Speaker 1: large life decision. Mount St. Mary's off, Mamma mater, I

918
00:41:03,440 --> 00:41:05,960
Speaker 1: knew it. Well, uh, you know, I remember the president

919
00:41:05,960 --> 00:41:08,400
Speaker 1: at the time, he says, you know, like I basically

920
00:41:08,440 --> 00:41:11,400
Speaker 1: had to take nsentially like a pay cut. You know,

921
00:41:11,440 --> 00:41:12,920
Speaker 1: he wanted me to take a pay cut at the beginning,

922
00:41:12,960 --> 00:41:14,600
Speaker 1: and he says, well, you know, to be a head

923
00:41:14,640 --> 00:41:16,400
Speaker 1: coach sometimes you have to make this kind of sacrifice.

924
00:41:16,400 --> 00:41:18,640
Speaker 1: And my my advice NIM was, well, I'm not I'm

925
00:41:18,640 --> 00:41:21,600
Speaker 1: assistant at VCU. I'm I'm probably gonna get both at

926
00:41:21,640 --> 00:41:25,080
Speaker 1: some point here pretty soon, you know. And so you know,

927
00:41:25,160 --> 00:41:28,239
Speaker 1: you make that move there and you're sitting and you're saying, man, like,

928
00:41:28,440 --> 00:41:30,080
Speaker 1: you know, now we're in the NBC. We've got to

929
00:41:30,120 --> 00:41:31,879
Speaker 1: rebuild this thing. When you know you're at a place

930
00:41:31,920 --> 00:41:34,600
Speaker 1: like DCU and and coaches, guys move and they take

931
00:41:34,640 --> 00:41:37,560
Speaker 1: over great jobs. Um. And so you know, going through that,

932
00:41:37,719 --> 00:41:40,560
Speaker 1: my athletic director, they're still now. Lynn Paylon Robinson is

933
00:41:40,560 --> 00:41:43,760
Speaker 1: actually Coach Baylon's daughter. Was really a big difference maker

934
00:41:43,800 --> 00:41:46,040
Speaker 1: for me because I was just so comfortable with her.

935
00:41:46,640 --> 00:41:48,880
Speaker 1: I could tell it's been a tough year, um, and

936
00:41:48,880 --> 00:41:50,680
Speaker 1: I could tell she she had everything she wanted to

937
00:41:50,680 --> 00:41:52,120
Speaker 1: get that program right back to where he needs to

938
00:41:52,160 --> 00:41:53,680
Speaker 1: be at. And so when I had a chance to

939
00:41:53,719 --> 00:41:56,280
Speaker 1: sit down with her, her passion and Coach Baylon's passion,

940
00:41:56,320 --> 00:41:57,560
Speaker 1: he took me over to coach his house. You know

941
00:41:57,760 --> 00:41:59,640
Speaker 1: that is if you're sitting in front of coach Sutton,

942
00:41:59,719 --> 00:42:01,839
Speaker 1: you know, UM, you know he took me over there,

943
00:42:01,960 --> 00:42:03,799
Speaker 1: And once I sat in front of them, you as

944
00:42:03,800 --> 00:42:05,960
Speaker 1: a no brainer, no brainers, trying to get our program

945
00:42:06,040 --> 00:42:08,600
Speaker 1: back to the top, um and to put everything we

946
00:42:08,680 --> 00:42:10,399
Speaker 1: had into it. And I was really fortunate to get

947
00:42:10,440 --> 00:42:13,520
Speaker 1: six great years there with amazing people, with amazing leadership,

948
00:42:14,080 --> 00:42:16,279
Speaker 1: UM that really put everything into it. Okay, So I

949
00:42:16,320 --> 00:42:18,359
Speaker 1: know you made the tournament twice, but I feel like

950
00:42:18,760 --> 00:42:21,279
Speaker 1: your your fifth year was the year because because you

951
00:42:21,320 --> 00:42:23,759
Speaker 1: won the league and you made the n S A term, right,

952
00:42:23,880 --> 00:42:26,080
Speaker 1: Like I I like, I get it's still cool to

953
00:42:26,120 --> 00:42:28,120
Speaker 1: make the tournament. If you to win your conference tournament,

954
00:42:28,160 --> 00:42:29,879
Speaker 1: still get in, But to win your league, to win

955
00:42:29,920 --> 00:42:32,600
Speaker 1: the tournament considering the tough time you went through when

956
00:42:32,600 --> 00:42:34,799
Speaker 1: you're a player, trying to get it back to where

957
00:42:34,840 --> 00:42:38,239
Speaker 1: it was before you even got there at the Mount, right. Uh.

958
00:42:38,280 --> 00:42:40,000
Speaker 1: And I know I know a lot had had it

959
00:42:40,040 --> 00:42:42,960
Speaker 1: going as well. Uh. What's what what do you remember

960
00:42:43,000 --> 00:42:48,440
Speaker 1: about the sixteen seventeen season at the Mount? Uh? You know,

961
00:42:48,560 --> 00:42:53,279
Speaker 1: for for coach that's a big believer in building UM

962
00:42:53,320 --> 00:42:56,399
Speaker 1: and scaffold being it was the most fun year I've

963
00:42:56,440 --> 00:42:59,080
Speaker 1: had because that fifth year. You know that I've heard

964
00:42:59,160 --> 00:43:01,040
Speaker 1: good good players in good teams the first two years.

965
00:43:01,200 --> 00:43:04,080
Speaker 1: Those are guys that we recruited an opportunity to really

966
00:43:04,080 --> 00:43:05,960
Speaker 1: build around. You know, it's like seeing that vision when

967
00:43:05,960 --> 00:43:08,560
Speaker 1: you're watch these guys like fifteen six year au and

968
00:43:08,560 --> 00:43:11,360
Speaker 1: then watching it all play out on the floor. UM.

969
00:43:11,480 --> 00:43:14,120
Speaker 1: And so what I remember most is just how determined

970
00:43:14,120 --> 00:43:18,879
Speaker 1: the guys were. Um. Their determination was unbelievable. No matter

971
00:43:18,880 --> 00:43:22,080
Speaker 1: who we're playing. I mean, everyone's confidence, but they had

972
00:43:22,120 --> 00:43:24,359
Speaker 1: a great level of determination through the course of the game.

973
00:43:24,400 --> 00:43:26,879
Speaker 1: And just turned the game one way or the other. Um,

974
00:43:26,960 --> 00:43:28,000
Speaker 1: you know we have to have like a write you

975
00:43:28,080 --> 00:43:31,560
Speaker 1: long who's now at Texas, Miles Wilson, the exfense with Miami. Um,

976
00:43:31,840 --> 00:43:33,839
Speaker 1: you know we had we we have Meldo Salad Center

977
00:43:33,880 --> 00:43:35,360
Speaker 1: for us to your infertenis we kans the stay. The

978
00:43:35,400 --> 00:43:38,160
Speaker 1: guys are really talented players and junior Robinson, Chris Ferry

979
00:43:38,239 --> 00:43:40,600
Speaker 1: on that team. And those guys didn't being played against defensively,

980
00:43:40,600 --> 00:43:43,560
Speaker 1: played offensively as seniors. So we had a talented group

981
00:43:43,560 --> 00:43:46,560
Speaker 1: of guys, but the guys sacrificed for one another and

982
00:43:46,600 --> 00:43:49,239
Speaker 1: they did so all for the sake of winning. Um.

983
00:43:49,320 --> 00:43:51,719
Speaker 1: You know, it's learning a few times that you're with

984
00:43:51,760 --> 00:43:54,239
Speaker 1: the group and you can tell that everyone has the

985
00:43:54,360 --> 00:43:57,839
Speaker 1: same focus. Usually there's one or two guys, usually guys

986
00:43:57,880 --> 00:43:59,959
Speaker 1: that you need to count on. Their focus just isn't

987
00:44:00,040 --> 00:44:02,920
Speaker 1: the same. Everyone there had to focus. You know, we

988
00:44:02,960 --> 00:44:05,120
Speaker 1: wanted to be the regular season champ. We wanted to

989
00:44:05,320 --> 00:44:07,040
Speaker 1: complete the thing get t nt to want and everyone

990
00:44:07,080 --> 00:44:11,040
Speaker 1: had that focus. And so watching them become those things.

991
00:44:11,239 --> 00:44:14,360
Speaker 1: And I remember, you know Chris Ray who was it

992
00:44:14,440 --> 00:44:17,200
Speaker 1: was an unbelievable player for us the year before he

993
00:44:17,200 --> 00:44:18,839
Speaker 1: came in my office, and he talked to me about

994
00:44:18,840 --> 00:44:20,279
Speaker 1: he's a coach. I think I'm gonna transfer. I think

995
00:44:20,280 --> 00:44:22,520
Speaker 1: I'm gonna go home and start working in a factory.

996
00:44:22,520 --> 00:44:24,080
Speaker 1: And so people don't understand some of the stories on

997
00:44:24,120 --> 00:44:26,040
Speaker 1: the story and I you know, he said, you know,

998
00:44:26,120 --> 00:44:27,839
Speaker 1: this year, we just struggle. We didn't get it right

999
00:44:27,840 --> 00:44:29,640
Speaker 1: over the hump and we were right there. You know

1000
00:44:29,680 --> 00:44:31,560
Speaker 1: the game. You know, you you lose a game, close

1001
00:44:31,640 --> 00:44:34,680
Speaker 1: game in March. That happens. But Chris Ray, you know,

1002
00:44:34,719 --> 00:44:36,359
Speaker 1: over two days, man, we talked about it. I didn't

1003
00:44:36,360 --> 00:44:39,200
Speaker 1: talk him in the staying amount saying marriage. I really

1004
00:44:39,200 --> 00:44:42,080
Speaker 1: talked about weld best words life, you know, having this

1005
00:44:42,160 --> 00:44:44,400
Speaker 1: degree and finishing this thing off. Like people forget, some

1006
00:44:44,440 --> 00:44:45,920
Speaker 1: of these guys are going and done. They're going to

1007
00:44:45,920 --> 00:44:48,560
Speaker 1: the NBA, some of them, very few. Most of these

1008
00:44:48,560 --> 00:44:52,600
Speaker 1: players are going to life. And so the degree that

1009
00:44:52,640 --> 00:44:55,520
Speaker 1: they're gonna get becomes very important. The connection they're gonna

1010
00:44:55,520 --> 00:44:58,520
Speaker 1: have becomes very important. And so our conversation wasn't really

1011
00:44:58,520 --> 00:45:00,520
Speaker 1: about basketball. It was about what was best Christ rating

1012
00:45:00,560 --> 00:45:02,239
Speaker 1: his wife. You know, it's it's it's it's interesting you

1013
00:45:02,239 --> 00:45:04,160
Speaker 1: put that. I started to rub it's interesting point that

1014
00:45:04,200 --> 00:45:07,240
Speaker 1: out and when you say life like and you said connections,

1015
00:45:07,239 --> 00:45:09,600
Speaker 1: that's the big thing. Like, now, look, I transferred and

1016
00:45:09,640 --> 00:45:11,279
Speaker 1: I had to transfer and leave Notre Dame after my

1017
00:45:11,320 --> 00:45:14,400
Speaker 1: freshman year UM and the reason I went there really

1018
00:45:14,440 --> 00:45:16,960
Speaker 1: was because of connections, the idea of playing for McLeod

1019
00:45:17,000 --> 00:45:18,719
Speaker 1: in the Big East and all that Notre Dame has

1020
00:45:18,719 --> 00:45:20,680
Speaker 1: to offer. But I think one of the things that

1021
00:45:20,719 --> 00:45:23,520
Speaker 1: gets lost in our transfer culture, and you know, now

1022
00:45:23,560 --> 00:45:25,560
Speaker 1: you've got guys transferred twice and at some point we're

1023
00:45:25,560 --> 00:45:27,759
Speaker 1: gonna have you know, three time transfers as well, right,

1024
00:45:28,400 --> 00:45:31,120
Speaker 1: is that you don't you don't like have a home,

1025
00:45:31,480 --> 00:45:34,440
Speaker 1: you know, you just don't and like grad transfers a

1026
00:45:34,440 --> 00:45:36,600
Speaker 1: lot of these guys and I look, you're going on,

1027
00:45:36,640 --> 00:45:38,120
Speaker 1: you're giving yourself. I mean, if you have a chance

1028
00:45:38,120 --> 00:45:40,920
Speaker 1: to play at North Carolina or at Kansas or at

1029
00:45:41,440 --> 00:45:44,120
Speaker 1: you know, the kid Cremo at at at at Villanova

1030
00:45:44,320 --> 00:45:46,759
Speaker 1: coming off of the national championship, like who among us

1031
00:45:46,760 --> 00:45:48,680
Speaker 1: wouldn't want to see? Like, man, am I good enough

1032
00:45:48,719 --> 00:45:52,080
Speaker 1: at that? At that level? On the other hand, there

1033
00:45:52,200 --> 00:45:55,359
Speaker 1: is something too if you leave, you're not really a

1034
00:45:55,360 --> 00:45:58,319
Speaker 1: part of Villanova's culture. If you've been there for six

1035
00:45:58,360 --> 00:46:01,160
Speaker 1: seven months and you're you know, if you left Albany,

1036
00:46:01,280 --> 00:46:04,080
Speaker 1: They're like, hey, a you dude, you just you just

1037
00:46:04,160 --> 00:46:06,279
Speaker 1: left us for your senior year when you were going

1038
00:46:06,360 --> 00:46:08,640
Speaker 1: to be the guy we built the whole thing around you.

1039
00:46:09,280 --> 00:46:11,719
Speaker 1: And so yeah, I mean, like the only thing you

1040
00:46:11,760 --> 00:46:13,239
Speaker 1: have left at the end of the day is all

1041
00:46:13,280 --> 00:46:15,520
Speaker 1: those experiences and all those connections and all those people

1042
00:46:15,640 --> 00:46:18,319
Speaker 1: that you went to school with. And I do think

1043
00:46:18,360 --> 00:46:21,319
Speaker 1: that it's a hard thing to communicate with anybody other

1044
00:46:21,360 --> 00:46:23,359
Speaker 1: than a kid. And and kids sometimes are too young

1045
00:46:23,400 --> 00:46:25,399
Speaker 1: to understand like when you need a job, the people

1046
00:46:25,440 --> 00:46:28,120
Speaker 1: you're gonna call on to help you get a real

1047
00:46:28,200 --> 00:46:31,040
Speaker 1: life job or the people who you have relationships with

1048
00:46:31,120 --> 00:46:34,200
Speaker 1: from college, right right. And I don't think they would

1049
00:46:34,280 --> 00:46:37,080
Speaker 1: realize that until much later. And I think that's the

1050
00:46:37,120 --> 00:46:39,319
Speaker 1: hard part is there there won't be enough research done

1051
00:46:39,360 --> 00:46:41,520
Speaker 1: on this, you know, for years to come and tell

1052
00:46:41,560 --> 00:46:45,880
Speaker 1: people really see was there a benefit it was or not? Um,

1053
00:46:45,960 --> 00:46:47,560
Speaker 1: because you know, we all have time to play in

1054
00:46:47,560 --> 00:46:49,759
Speaker 1: this space, and you know, I lived it, you know

1055
00:46:49,800 --> 00:46:52,920
Speaker 1: with Chris, and he came back the way our campus

1056
00:46:52,920 --> 00:46:56,000
Speaker 1: embraced him, UM, the way he was able to it

1057
00:46:56,120 --> 00:46:57,880
Speaker 1: wasn't really about our team and the way he was

1058
00:46:57,920 --> 00:47:00,760
Speaker 1: able to embrace it. And there's this moment or after

1059
00:47:00,960 --> 00:47:02,520
Speaker 1: the game. I told him, as just said, if you,

1060
00:47:02,560 --> 00:47:04,719
Speaker 1: I think if you take the leadership quality that I

1061
00:47:04,760 --> 00:47:08,040
Speaker 1: believe in, this team will have a championship next year.

1062
00:47:08,040 --> 00:47:09,759
Speaker 1: But I think you've got to make that adjustment. You've

1063
00:47:09,760 --> 00:47:11,959
Speaker 1: got to grow into that role. And there's a moment

1064
00:47:11,960 --> 00:47:14,000
Speaker 1: where you know you've you've been there. You're running on

1065
00:47:14,040 --> 00:47:17,040
Speaker 1: the floor, everyone's there and I find him and I

1066
00:47:17,040 --> 00:47:18,759
Speaker 1: told him this is the year before. I said, I'm

1067
00:47:18,760 --> 00:47:20,440
Speaker 1: gonna find you in the huddle, in the in the

1068
00:47:20,520 --> 00:47:23,120
Speaker 1: in the skirmish, and I'm gonna hug you like I've

1069
00:47:23,160 --> 00:47:26,959
Speaker 1: never hugged anyone before. And when I found him after

1070
00:47:27,000 --> 00:47:30,480
Speaker 1: that game and we had that embrace, you know, and

1071
00:47:30,560 --> 00:47:32,399
Speaker 1: he was in tears, and I was in tears because

1072
00:47:32,400 --> 00:47:36,240
Speaker 1: you love these guys. You know that. To me, everything

1073
00:47:36,320 --> 00:47:39,040
Speaker 1: is worth that moment. And I think for him, I

1074
00:47:39,040 --> 00:47:41,240
Speaker 1: think he would say the same thing. And he wouldn't

1075
00:47:41,280 --> 00:47:43,920
Speaker 1: have had that had he gone somewhere else, even if

1076
00:47:43,920 --> 00:47:46,880
Speaker 1: they would have won it, because what makes that moment

1077
00:47:47,520 --> 00:47:50,440
Speaker 1: is all the tough stuff that came before. It not

1078
00:47:50,680 --> 00:47:54,000
Speaker 1: the the actual winning of the game, it's the journey

1079
00:47:54,120 --> 00:47:56,600
Speaker 1: it's the struggle, it's the embrace. It's the love that's

1080
00:47:56,640 --> 00:48:00,080
Speaker 1: created through the tough stuff. What was it says and

1081
00:48:00,160 --> 00:48:04,040
Speaker 1: like to leave and go to Sienna, Well, it was tough.

1082
00:48:04,120 --> 00:48:06,080
Speaker 1: It was a tough decision. Um, but you might have

1083
00:48:06,080 --> 00:48:08,160
Speaker 1: been properly time, you know, I mean six years at

1084
00:48:08,200 --> 00:48:10,960
Speaker 1: the Mount and putting everything into it. Um. I just

1085
00:48:11,000 --> 00:48:14,319
Speaker 1: always loved I love Sienna and I loved um you know,

1086
00:48:14,360 --> 00:48:15,960
Speaker 1: those teams they had there, they've been so good. I

1087
00:48:15,960 --> 00:48:17,399
Speaker 1: always felt like it could be one of the best

1088
00:48:17,440 --> 00:48:20,799
Speaker 1: man major schools in the country. Um. You know, they

1089
00:48:20,840 --> 00:48:22,959
Speaker 1: just had a great tradition there and you know Frren

1090
00:48:23,000 --> 00:48:25,320
Speaker 1: McCaffrey at three straight years there where they were dominant

1091
00:48:25,400 --> 00:48:27,160
Speaker 1: and they've been coaches before that that had a ton

1092
00:48:27,200 --> 00:48:29,520
Speaker 1: of success and um, you know, they have one of

1093
00:48:29,560 --> 00:48:31,480
Speaker 1: the best arenas in the area and then one of

1094
00:48:31,480 --> 00:48:33,319
Speaker 1: the best in that league. I just felt like you

1095
00:48:33,320 --> 00:48:34,520
Speaker 1: could win there, and I feel like you need to

1096
00:48:34,520 --> 00:48:36,040
Speaker 1: be able to prove that you can win there. You know,

1097
00:48:36,160 --> 00:48:37,799
Speaker 1: history showing that you can prove you can win there.

1098
00:48:38,280 --> 00:48:39,920
Speaker 1: You know, I think good things are gonna happen, and

1099
00:48:40,080 --> 00:48:41,400
Speaker 1: you know, I do believe. I believe it is one

1100
00:48:41,400 --> 00:48:42,960
Speaker 1: of the best man major jobs in the country. I

1101
00:48:43,000 --> 00:48:45,160
Speaker 1: think there's things there that that no one in that

1102
00:48:45,239 --> 00:48:47,520
Speaker 1: league can touch. And you know, when they have the

1103
00:48:47,560 --> 00:48:49,480
Speaker 1: right person sitting in that chair, they win and they

1104
00:48:49,520 --> 00:48:51,799
Speaker 1: went big and there are people they're supported. I don't

1105
00:48:51,800 --> 00:48:54,879
Speaker 1: think people understand the people in the Capital region were

1106
00:48:54,920 --> 00:48:58,640
Speaker 1: so amazing to our family, so amazing to our team.

1107
00:48:58,760 --> 00:49:00,880
Speaker 1: I mean, they really fueled our team. You know, we

1108
00:49:01,040 --> 00:49:03,520
Speaker 1: lost the top seven guys on our roster last year

1109
00:49:03,560 --> 00:49:07,520
Speaker 1: from the scoring standpoint, and they supported our team. They

1110
00:49:07,560 --> 00:49:10,440
Speaker 1: gave our team love, They were appreciating our team. It

1111
00:49:10,520 --> 00:49:12,880
Speaker 1: was unbelievable. And that turnaround we were able to have

1112
00:49:12,960 --> 00:49:15,000
Speaker 1: this year is in combination to the guys in that

1113
00:49:15,120 --> 00:49:16,759
Speaker 1: locker room. But there has a lot to do with

1114
00:49:16,800 --> 00:49:19,600
Speaker 1: that environment that's there, and those people are really special.

1115
00:49:19,920 --> 00:49:21,920
Speaker 1: And you don't realize until you go there and you

1116
00:49:22,000 --> 00:49:25,319
Speaker 1: coach there and you play there. What an unbelievable fan base.

1117
00:49:25,320 --> 00:49:27,279
Speaker 1: It is not much you love our team, but when

1118
00:49:27,320 --> 00:49:29,160
Speaker 1: you do, you really appreciate it. No, they and they

1119
00:49:29,200 --> 00:49:30,960
Speaker 1: might even love you too much. Right Like the old

1120
00:49:31,000 --> 00:49:33,200
Speaker 1: thing is like they got they got old guys from

1121
00:49:33,239 --> 00:49:35,080
Speaker 1: the town, they from the Capitol district to come in

1122
00:49:35,440 --> 00:49:37,560
Speaker 1: and they watch practice and they and they go back

1123
00:49:37,560 --> 00:49:39,800
Speaker 1: to the coffee shop and they chop it up. Okay,

1124
00:49:39,800 --> 00:49:42,719
Speaker 1: so the so I mean like, look, the question is like,

1125
00:49:43,480 --> 00:49:45,719
Speaker 1: you're gonna leave after one year? Like I get you

1126
00:49:45,800 --> 00:49:49,279
Speaker 1: come back and it's it's d C, It's George Washington,

1127
00:49:49,640 --> 00:49:52,960
Speaker 1: it's red Arbach Court, it's that I mentioned. You know,

1128
00:49:53,080 --> 00:49:56,040
Speaker 1: it's a it's an area where you close to close

1129
00:49:56,120 --> 00:49:58,240
Speaker 1: enough to where you grew up, right, you're more familiar

1130
00:49:58,280 --> 00:50:01,239
Speaker 1: to where you've coached. On the other hand, after one year,

1131
00:50:01,280 --> 00:50:03,279
Speaker 1: like here you are, you know, preaching, Hey, we're gonna

1132
00:50:03,280 --> 00:50:06,680
Speaker 1: build it, and you built it at at at the Mount. Um,

1133
00:50:07,760 --> 00:50:09,759
Speaker 1: what is that like to look people in the eye

1134
00:50:09,760 --> 00:50:12,480
Speaker 1: and say, yeah, I'm gonna bail after one year. It's

1135
00:50:12,520 --> 00:50:16,520
Speaker 1: it's one of the hardest things you have to do. Um.

1136
00:50:16,560 --> 00:50:18,879
Speaker 1: You know, because I believe all those things. I love

1137
00:50:18,920 --> 00:50:21,120
Speaker 1: those guys are in that locker room. I believe all

1138
00:50:21,120 --> 00:50:22,840
Speaker 1: those things. I believe, you know, I believe you know,

1139
00:50:22,880 --> 00:50:25,960
Speaker 1: it's an amazing place. Um. I've just always wanted to

1140
00:50:25,960 --> 00:50:27,680
Speaker 1: be at g W. I've always wanted to be the

1141
00:50:27,680 --> 00:50:30,040
Speaker 1: head coach here. You know how many times in you're

1142
00:50:30,080 --> 00:50:31,920
Speaker 1: in in my lifetime? Am I going to get to

1143
00:50:31,920 --> 00:50:33,360
Speaker 1: coach at a place that's been number five in the

1144
00:50:33,400 --> 00:50:37,040
Speaker 1: country at some point, you know, I mean it's I

1145
00:50:37,080 --> 00:50:39,239
Speaker 1: mean how many times you know you don't necessar maike

1146
00:50:39,239 --> 00:50:41,800
Speaker 1: it that opportunity. Um, when you look at the history

1147
00:50:41,840 --> 00:50:44,399
Speaker 1: here when it's really good, it's one of the best

1148
00:50:44,480 --> 00:50:46,480
Speaker 1: jobs in the country, it's one of the it's in

1149
00:50:46,520 --> 00:50:48,840
Speaker 1: one of the best recruiting areas in the country. You know,

1150
00:50:48,920 --> 00:50:50,960
Speaker 1: I think all of us want an opportunity to be

1151
00:50:51,239 --> 00:50:53,359
Speaker 1: a team that's in this week sixteen annually. You want

1152
00:50:53,360 --> 00:50:56,080
Speaker 1: to have an opportunity to be a team that's competing

1153
00:50:56,120 --> 00:50:58,879
Speaker 1: for those final fours every year. That's a lofty goal,

1154
00:50:58,960 --> 00:51:01,160
Speaker 1: that's a lofty off the things that you're looking at.

1155
00:51:01,640 --> 00:51:03,880
Speaker 1: But at g W you can accomplish all those things,

1156
00:51:04,680 --> 00:51:07,080
Speaker 1: and you can do it consistently if you do it right,

1157
00:51:07,320 --> 00:51:10,000
Speaker 1: if you embrace what we have, you're not just our location,

1158
00:51:10,040 --> 00:51:11,680
Speaker 1: but use it as a big part of it. You know,

1159
00:51:11,760 --> 00:51:15,120
Speaker 1: one of the top educations in the country. Embracing that. Um,

1160
00:51:15,160 --> 00:51:17,520
Speaker 1: we're in a multiple bid league now, so that gives

1161
00:51:17,560 --> 00:51:19,040
Speaker 1: us an opportunity. You know, when you're in the one

1162
00:51:19,040 --> 00:51:20,800
Speaker 1: bid league, you could have a great year and lose

1163
00:51:21,280 --> 00:51:23,840
Speaker 1: and you have no opportunity to go there. Um. And

1164
00:51:23,880 --> 00:51:25,960
Speaker 1: so when you look at it just from a basketball standpoint,

1165
00:51:26,040 --> 00:51:28,000
Speaker 1: I think it makes a ton of sense. I feel

1166
00:51:28,000 --> 00:51:29,839
Speaker 1: like the year at Sienna, you know, we'll pick last,

1167
00:51:29,840 --> 00:51:32,920
Speaker 1: we've been a second. Um, we have an amazing player

1168
00:51:32,920 --> 00:51:36,280
Speaker 1: in Jalen Pickett and someone seymourris freshman come in, Elijah

1169
00:51:36,280 --> 00:51:39,480
Speaker 1: Burns transfers in, Don Kerrey is transferred in. When you

1170
00:51:39,520 --> 00:51:44,160
Speaker 1: look at Sienna from today, it's better, much better than

1171
00:51:44,200 --> 00:51:46,440
Speaker 1: it was when we came in. I felt like we

1172
00:51:46,440 --> 00:51:48,439
Speaker 1: did our job there. And I don't think we got

1173
00:51:48,480 --> 00:51:50,600
Speaker 1: to the level that that I believe we could because

1174
00:51:50,719 --> 00:51:52,960
Speaker 1: time didn't prevent pre didn't allow for that. But I

1175
00:51:52,960 --> 00:51:54,239
Speaker 1: think we did our job there and I think we

1176
00:51:54,320 --> 00:51:57,239
Speaker 1: turned it around pretty quickly. Um. And we did that

1177
00:51:57,280 --> 00:51:59,680
Speaker 1: in a combination a lot of things. Um. So it

1178
00:51:59,880 --> 00:52:01,840
Speaker 1: was tough because I felt like we're really work in

1179
00:52:01,880 --> 00:52:04,799
Speaker 1: that direction. But I just love g W. You know,

1180
00:52:04,840 --> 00:52:07,160
Speaker 1: Mike Jarvis was a guy I watched the ton growing up.

1181
00:52:07,239 --> 00:52:10,000
Speaker 1: You know, we didn't have any many many uh many

1182
00:52:10,080 --> 00:52:12,680
Speaker 1: stations on TV growing up, and but Home Team Sports

1183
00:52:12,719 --> 00:52:14,480
Speaker 1: was one of them. And and Mike Jarvis is a

1184
00:52:14,520 --> 00:52:16,719
Speaker 1: guy that I really admired. Um, A lot of a

1185
00:52:16,719 --> 00:52:17,920
Speaker 1: lot of the things that you as a coach now

1186
00:52:17,920 --> 00:52:20,600
Speaker 1: are things that I watched him do here. Um. You know,

1187
00:52:20,680 --> 00:52:23,440
Speaker 1: it's not just about chasing a challenge, um, but it's

1188
00:52:23,440 --> 00:52:25,279
Speaker 1: about finding the right place where you feel like your

1189
00:52:25,360 --> 00:52:27,080
Speaker 1: values and you're more of really fit because I think

1190
00:52:27,080 --> 00:52:29,000
Speaker 1: when you find those places, when you find that place,

1191
00:52:29,440 --> 00:52:31,799
Speaker 1: you can really achieve something special. When I believe we're

1192
00:52:31,800 --> 00:52:34,000
Speaker 1: gonna do that here at g W. If thirty seven

1193
00:52:34,080 --> 00:52:36,440
Speaker 1: year old Jamie and Christian could tell twenty nine year

1194
00:52:36,480 --> 00:52:39,879
Speaker 1: old first time head coach Jamie and Christian one piece

1195
00:52:39,920 --> 00:52:48,440
Speaker 1: of advice, would it be, oh, um, Oh, it would

1196
00:52:48,440 --> 00:52:53,200
Speaker 1: be to be the man that your son will be

1197
00:52:53,239 --> 00:52:58,520
Speaker 1: proud of. How challenging is that to to do? It's

1198
00:52:58,520 --> 00:53:02,200
Speaker 1: one of the most challenging things ever because every decision

1199
00:53:02,239 --> 00:53:05,399
Speaker 1: that that I make every day can affect him. I mean,

1200
00:53:05,400 --> 00:53:07,600
Speaker 1: you look at the stuff that's happening in our sport

1201
00:53:07,719 --> 00:53:11,319
Speaker 1: right now. Um, you know you've got to make a

1202
00:53:11,320 --> 00:53:15,000
Speaker 1: more decision in this business. And my more decision starts

1203
00:53:15,040 --> 00:53:18,160
Speaker 1: starts with him, starts with my family, and UM, you know,

1204
00:53:18,280 --> 00:53:19,719
Speaker 1: just trying to be the person that when you know,

1205
00:53:19,719 --> 00:53:23,200
Speaker 1: when he's eighteen nineteen ain't going to college and they say, oh,

1206
00:53:23,239 --> 00:53:26,120
Speaker 1: my dad is my dad is this? You know that

1207
00:53:26,239 --> 00:53:28,680
Speaker 1: people say, wow, man, what a great person he is.

1208
00:53:28,719 --> 00:53:30,200
Speaker 1: You know, he's done a lot in our communities, done

1209
00:53:30,200 --> 00:53:32,319
Speaker 1: a lot instead of like, oh, wow, that's your father.

1210
00:53:32,520 --> 00:53:33,960
Speaker 1: You know, I don't never want him to be ashamed

1211
00:53:34,000 --> 00:53:37,040
Speaker 1: who his father is. UM, and I'll never be ashamed

1212
00:53:37,040 --> 00:53:40,520
Speaker 1: of who he is. You know. It's it's interesting because uh,

1213
00:53:40,680 --> 00:53:42,440
Speaker 1: you know it is. It's one of those things where

1214
00:53:42,440 --> 00:53:44,439
Speaker 1: if you say, like, why my college basketball coach, like really,

1215
00:53:44,560 --> 00:53:47,799
Speaker 1: like there's the whatever reason, there's like a negative connotation

1216
00:53:47,840 --> 00:53:50,719
Speaker 1: because of some of these stories. On the other hand,

1217
00:53:50,719 --> 00:53:52,799
Speaker 1: when we look at it, there's three and fifty some

1218
00:53:53,040 --> 00:53:56,000
Speaker 1: Division one programs forgebout Division two, Division three that you know,

1219
00:53:56,080 --> 00:53:58,960
Speaker 1: how many of them are not being in that? Um,

1220
00:53:59,040 --> 00:54:00,920
Speaker 1: how much of this does a one like you've been

1221
00:54:00,920 --> 00:54:03,760
Speaker 1: in You've been in different levels of college basketball, obviously

1222
00:54:03,760 --> 00:54:07,480
Speaker 1: not at VCUS competing against but not recruiting against the

1223
00:54:07,520 --> 00:54:12,520
Speaker 1: highest level. From your experience, how much of it goes on? Yeah,

1224
00:54:12,520 --> 00:54:14,480
Speaker 1: I think it's going on. I don't think it's as

1225
00:54:14,600 --> 00:54:16,319
Speaker 1: much as it looks right now. I mean, I think

1226
00:54:16,320 --> 00:54:19,359
Speaker 1: what we've learned from the Varsity blue scandal. Um, those

1227
00:54:19,440 --> 00:54:22,000
Speaker 1: that have excess resource are going to do everything they

1228
00:54:22,080 --> 00:54:24,480
Speaker 1: can to try to create an advantage for their families

1229
00:54:24,920 --> 00:54:26,680
Speaker 1: and for themselves. So I think it goes on in

1230
00:54:26,760 --> 00:54:30,960
Speaker 1: every walk of life. UM. I feel like again, I

1231
00:54:30,960 --> 00:54:34,000
Speaker 1: think it's one of the harder things because the n

1232
00:54:34,040 --> 00:54:37,440
Speaker 1: c A oversee a certain segment of people, but the

1233
00:54:37,440 --> 00:54:39,440
Speaker 1: majority of the people that are involved in our business

1234
00:54:39,600 --> 00:54:43,839
Speaker 1: are not are not legislated by them, and so there's

1235
00:54:43,840 --> 00:54:46,640
Speaker 1: a stuff outside that window that's very tough. UM. So

1236
00:54:46,680 --> 00:54:49,719
Speaker 1: I think that obviously it goes on. UM. I think

1237
00:54:49,719 --> 00:54:52,040
Speaker 1: we've got to do a better job as an organization

1238
00:54:52,120 --> 00:54:54,920
Speaker 1: and as people and as coaches of being morally correct

1239
00:54:54,920 --> 00:54:59,280
Speaker 1: and understanding what's what's what's good and what's bad. Um.

1240
00:54:59,440 --> 00:55:02,239
Speaker 1: We've got in a little bit too far one direction

1241
00:55:02,520 --> 00:55:05,640
Speaker 1: on winning being the only thing, or paying the players

1242
00:55:05,760 --> 00:55:08,759
Speaker 1: or you know, all these things when we all know

1243
00:55:08,840 --> 00:55:11,000
Speaker 1: how much more you make when you graduate from college.

1244
00:55:11,040 --> 00:55:13,799
Speaker 1: Instead of making that the focus point, the educational point,

1245
00:55:14,160 --> 00:55:17,600
Speaker 1: we've decided to make it more about money. UM. And

1246
00:55:17,640 --> 00:55:19,720
Speaker 1: So I think when you make things more about money,

1247
00:55:20,040 --> 00:55:22,600
Speaker 1: decisions are made based on money. And you can see

1248
00:55:22,600 --> 00:55:24,960
Speaker 1: that in every regard with the things that are going on,

1249
00:55:25,320 --> 00:55:28,400
Speaker 1: butefully but will do something about it and change it.

1250
00:55:28,480 --> 00:55:31,520
Speaker 1: But people would people would say, well, Jamian, now you

1251
00:55:31,640 --> 00:55:34,680
Speaker 1: left one job for another job. You know, you know what?

1252
00:55:34,719 --> 00:55:38,160
Speaker 1: Why why are you different? Uh? What you're set? Why

1253
00:55:38,160 --> 00:55:41,160
Speaker 1: is what you're saying different than anybody else when you're

1254
00:55:41,239 --> 00:55:45,520
Speaker 1: chasing what you what? What would be a bigger check? Yeah? Absolutely, UM,

1255
00:55:45,719 --> 00:55:47,960
Speaker 1: I would say it's I would say it's different in

1256
00:55:47,960 --> 00:55:51,400
Speaker 1: the regard that I'm hired, that I've gone through this

1257
00:55:51,480 --> 00:55:54,640
Speaker 1: collegiate process, I've learned the lesson and now I'm an

1258
00:55:54,719 --> 00:55:57,640
Speaker 1: I'm an at risk employee. UM. I think there's a

1259
00:55:57,760 --> 00:56:02,640
Speaker 1: danger when we make our mak our college athletes employees. UM.

1260
00:56:02,680 --> 00:56:04,600
Speaker 1: I think that danger is that you can then fire them.

1261
00:56:04,640 --> 00:56:07,360
Speaker 1: I think that's dangerous. UM. Like, I don't like you know,

1262
00:56:07,680 --> 00:56:10,279
Speaker 1: I don't like the way the transfer rules set up

1263
00:56:10,280 --> 00:56:12,560
Speaker 1: now because I think there should be a window where

1264
00:56:12,560 --> 00:56:15,200
Speaker 1: guys can come and go and come back. I think

1265
00:56:15,239 --> 00:56:18,279
Speaker 1: what happens now without a window, players can hang out

1266
00:56:18,320 --> 00:56:19,880
Speaker 1: on this wire for as long as they need to.

1267
00:56:19,880 --> 00:56:22,319
Speaker 1: I think it's gonna hurt the players. You know, if

1268
00:56:22,320 --> 00:56:24,319
Speaker 1: there's a two week window or a three week window there,

1269
00:56:24,640 --> 00:56:28,360
Speaker 1: that's gonna allow them the opportunity to come back instead

1270
00:56:28,360 --> 00:56:30,000
Speaker 1: of saying, oh, I have to leave. I don't have

1271
00:56:30,000 --> 00:56:32,480
Speaker 1: another I don't have a place to go. So you know,

1272
00:56:32,480 --> 00:56:35,880
Speaker 1: we're like overreacting some and in the market will correct

1273
00:56:35,920 --> 00:56:38,200
Speaker 1: itself and we'll get a really good plan together. But

1274
00:56:38,320 --> 00:56:40,879
Speaker 1: right now we're just swinging from one direction to the other.

1275
00:56:41,640 --> 00:56:45,880
Speaker 1: Um and, and I think that's challenging. Last thing, best

1276
00:56:45,920 --> 00:56:49,400
Speaker 1: coach you've gone against that no one mentions as a

1277
00:56:49,440 --> 00:56:53,160
Speaker 1: great coach that you've gone against, Um well, I mean

1278
00:56:53,200 --> 00:56:55,200
Speaker 1: I'm gonna, I'm gonna I'll give you the first is

1279
00:56:55,239 --> 00:56:58,960
Speaker 1: Tubby Smith that no one, no one acts like Tubby

1280
00:56:59,000 --> 00:57:01,520
Speaker 1: Smith is. He's one of the best coaches in the

1281
00:57:01,560 --> 00:57:04,880
Speaker 1: game today. You look at what's been going on cause basketball,

1282
00:57:04,920 --> 00:57:07,080
Speaker 1: Tubby Smith doesn't have any kind of smears on his resume.

1283
00:57:07,760 --> 00:57:10,080
Speaker 1: One of the best I've ever gone against. You know,

1284
00:57:10,080 --> 00:57:12,080
Speaker 1: when you're sitting on that sideline, you're going against someone,

1285
00:57:12,840 --> 00:57:14,520
Speaker 1: you get a strong extense of how good a coach

1286
00:57:14,520 --> 00:57:19,040
Speaker 1: he is. Um U, Tubby Smith, hands down the best

1287
00:57:19,040 --> 00:57:22,320
Speaker 1: guy I've gone against. I'm always disrespected constantly when people

1288
00:57:22,320 --> 00:57:24,120
Speaker 1: don't talk about what a great coach he is. I

1289
00:57:24,160 --> 00:57:27,160
Speaker 1: just feel like it's it's it's not right because he's

1290
00:57:27,200 --> 00:57:30,040
Speaker 1: done an unbelievable job in many different places. He's taken

1291
00:57:30,040 --> 00:57:33,720
Speaker 1: on different challenges. He's always one and he's always one

1292
00:57:33,760 --> 00:57:36,960
Speaker 1: the right way. Um, I'm a big I just think

1293
00:57:36,960 --> 00:57:38,760
Speaker 1: Tubby Smiths was the most underrated, one of the most

1294
00:57:38,840 --> 00:57:41,520
Speaker 1: underappreciated head coaches I got that I really look up

1295
00:57:41,520 --> 00:57:43,480
Speaker 1: to and I think he's just I think he's as

1296
00:57:43,480 --> 00:57:45,400
Speaker 1: good as they come. All right, man, Well listen, I

1297
00:57:45,400 --> 00:57:48,600
Speaker 1: wish you nothing but success. Is your family unpacks in

1298
00:57:48,600 --> 00:57:50,400
Speaker 1: the new home, nothing worse than the first couple of

1299
00:57:50,400 --> 00:57:52,480
Speaker 1: weeks and you don't have your furniture, and your cable

1300
00:57:52,560 --> 00:57:54,360
Speaker 1: or your satellite is not set up. I hope you

1301
00:57:54,360 --> 00:57:56,240
Speaker 1: have internet. I guess now. I guess you can use

1302
00:57:56,240 --> 00:57:58,320
Speaker 1: your phone if you don't have internet. That's just the worst,

1303
00:57:58,320 --> 00:58:00,960
Speaker 1: the worst part about moving. But you've you're in d

1304
00:58:01,040 --> 00:58:03,600
Speaker 1: C in the spring. Doesn't get any better. Well, I

1305
00:58:03,640 --> 00:58:06,240
Speaker 1: guess fall and you're winning or winner and your winning

1306
00:58:06,320 --> 00:58:08,920
Speaker 1: might be better. But that's a very close second. Thanks

1307
00:58:08,920 --> 00:58:11,120
Speaker 1: so much for this much of your time, and look

1308
00:58:11,160 --> 00:58:13,920
Speaker 1: forward to talk to me in the future. I'm so apprecive.

1309
00:58:13,920 --> 00:58:18,520
Speaker 1: Thanks so much. All right, that's it for all ball.

1310
00:58:18,520 --> 00:58:21,600
Speaker 1: Make sure you listen to Doug Gottlief Show weekdays three

1311
00:58:21,600 --> 00:58:24,680
Speaker 1: to six Eastern, twelve and three Pacific on Fox Sports Radio,

1312
00:58:24,920 --> 00:58:27,400
Speaker 1: Fox Sports Radio dot Com. We're also on Serious X

1313
00:58:27,480 --> 00:58:29,360
Speaker 1: and I think it's two oh three and two seventeen.

1314
00:58:29,720 --> 00:58:33,120
Speaker 1: It's whatever channel Dan Patrick's on. Check that one out

1315
00:58:33,720 --> 00:58:38,760
Speaker 1: and make sure you download and subscribe and rate our podcast.

1316
00:58:39,160 --> 00:58:41,360
Speaker 1: Thanks so much for listening. This is all ball