1 00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:03,760 Speaker 1: The shooting of Stefan Clark, twenty two year older black 2 00:00:03,800 --> 00:00:07,560 Speaker 1: man in Sacramento about a year ago, attracted a fair 3 00:00:07,560 --> 00:00:10,280 Speaker 1: amount of attention nationwide, and the District Attorney of Sacramento 4 00:00:10,320 --> 00:00:13,760 Speaker 1: County just announced on Saturday, I believe that there would 5 00:00:13,800 --> 00:00:17,840 Speaker 1: be no charges filed against the officers involved in shooting. Uh. 6 00:00:17,880 --> 00:00:20,880 Speaker 1: There have been protests and a great deal of reaction, 7 00:00:20,880 --> 00:00:25,000 Speaker 1: as you might expect, and to discuss the whole story, 8 00:00:25,600 --> 00:00:29,880 Speaker 1: Chief Daniel Hahn of the Sacramento Police Department joins us, Um, Chief, 9 00:00:29,920 --> 00:00:32,080 Speaker 1: we appreciate you being here very much. Thank you for 10 00:00:32,120 --> 00:00:34,960 Speaker 1: having me so listen. Uh. We're not knee jerk anything 11 00:00:34,960 --> 00:00:39,199 Speaker 1: around here. As you know, we support police uh strongly. 12 00:00:39,479 --> 00:00:41,800 Speaker 1: At the same time, the taking of the life of 13 00:00:41,800 --> 00:00:44,680 Speaker 1: a citizen of a free country is an incredibly serious thing, 14 00:00:45,000 --> 00:00:47,920 Speaker 1: particularly without a trial, and and societies need to be 15 00:00:48,000 --> 00:00:52,599 Speaker 1: very very careful about that. Um. Having said that, well, 16 00:00:52,640 --> 00:00:54,360 Speaker 1: why didn't you just tell us what was your reaction 17 00:00:54,400 --> 00:00:58,280 Speaker 1: to the d a's announcement Saturday no charges. Well, even 18 00:00:58,320 --> 00:01:01,120 Speaker 1: before she went, I knew that it wouldn't change certain 19 00:01:01,160 --> 00:01:04,000 Speaker 1: things no matter what, um, the decision was. And and 20 00:01:04,120 --> 00:01:08,039 Speaker 1: first and foremost, the pain that the family feels because 21 00:01:08,080 --> 00:01:11,240 Speaker 1: they've lost a son, a grandson. No decision is going 22 00:01:11,280 --> 00:01:15,000 Speaker 1: to change that or the challenges that face our city 23 00:01:15,440 --> 00:01:18,800 Speaker 1: and our police department. But I'm also glad that another 24 00:01:18,840 --> 00:01:22,200 Speaker 1: step in the process has come and there's a few 25 00:01:22,200 --> 00:01:25,200 Speaker 1: more steps to go. So it means we're progressing through 26 00:01:25,440 --> 00:01:29,560 Speaker 1: what our processes. Has the department uh come to a 27 00:01:29,600 --> 00:01:33,160 Speaker 1: position a decision on the actions of the officers that night, 28 00:01:33,760 --> 00:01:35,880 Speaker 1: We're still in that process. So we did the first 29 00:01:35,880 --> 00:01:39,000 Speaker 1: step in that that is a high level overview look 30 00:01:39,080 --> 00:01:42,119 Speaker 1: at our organizational performance during that call, and that's where 31 00:01:42,120 --> 00:01:45,240 Speaker 1: things like the new foot pursuit policy came from, the 32 00:01:45,319 --> 00:01:49,120 Speaker 1: modifications to the body camera policy, and a few other things. 33 00:01:49,360 --> 00:01:51,680 Speaker 1: And the last step in the final part of that 34 00:01:51,760 --> 00:01:55,040 Speaker 1: internal review is after we get the results from the 35 00:01:55,080 --> 00:01:58,320 Speaker 1: district Attorney and the Attorney General in this case, and 36 00:01:58,360 --> 00:02:02,040 Speaker 1: so the attorney General has not um given his decision 37 00:02:02,240 --> 00:02:05,880 Speaker 1: and results, and so after that we can then move 38 00:02:05,920 --> 00:02:08,360 Speaker 1: on to our final review. Was there a problem with 39 00:02:08,400 --> 00:02:12,160 Speaker 1: the department's foot pursuit policy before, Well, we didn't have 40 00:02:12,200 --> 00:02:15,640 Speaker 1: a foot pursuit policy, so now we do. Interesting brought 41 00:02:15,639 --> 00:02:19,720 Speaker 1: outlines of it. Uh yeah. It mirrors basically are our 42 00:02:19,880 --> 00:02:24,120 Speaker 1: vehicle pursuit policy that um gives direction to our officers 43 00:02:24,120 --> 00:02:26,480 Speaker 1: on the things that they have to take into consideration 44 00:02:26,560 --> 00:02:29,560 Speaker 1: before they either initiate a foot pursuit or continue a 45 00:02:29,560 --> 00:02:32,960 Speaker 1: foot pursuit, or cancel a foot pursuit. And so, UM, 46 00:02:33,000 --> 00:02:36,520 Speaker 1: it's very similar to our vehicle pursuit policy. Interesting. How 47 00:02:36,560 --> 00:02:39,799 Speaker 1: about the protests so far? I know there's been some unrest. 48 00:02:39,880 --> 00:02:43,239 Speaker 1: The mall was closed, uh that sort of thing, how 49 00:02:43,320 --> 00:02:47,080 Speaker 1: out of hand has a gun? Well, it's uh, I 50 00:02:47,120 --> 00:02:50,079 Speaker 1: think it's gone as good as can be expected at 51 00:02:50,120 --> 00:02:53,840 Speaker 1: this point. Um. We were prepared obviously for any number 52 00:02:53,840 --> 00:02:57,520 Speaker 1: of things. The mall closing is up to the mall ownership. 53 00:02:57,560 --> 00:03:00,240 Speaker 1: They're the ones that decided to close them all. Um. 54 00:03:00,600 --> 00:03:03,760 Speaker 1: So there's been a few, uh small protests, but there's 55 00:03:03,800 --> 00:03:07,279 Speaker 1: not been any violence. There's not been any real significant 56 00:03:07,320 --> 00:03:10,919 Speaker 1: property damage. So that's a very good thing. Chief Daniel 57 00:03:10,960 --> 00:03:15,080 Speaker 1: Hanald's Scramento Police Department is with us. Uh. The d 58 00:03:15,120 --> 00:03:17,920 Speaker 1: A in her press conference and I know you don't 59 00:03:17,919 --> 00:03:19,800 Speaker 1: work for the d A. You work for the police department, 60 00:03:19,800 --> 00:03:21,560 Speaker 1: but she you talked about a number of things, including 61 00:03:21,560 --> 00:03:24,160 Speaker 1: the drugs in the young man's system. Um, the fact 62 00:03:24,200 --> 00:03:27,000 Speaker 1: that he was there had been a domestic violence complaining 63 00:03:27,320 --> 00:03:29,359 Speaker 1: about him, that sort of thing, and the family is 64 00:03:29,400 --> 00:03:32,079 Speaker 1: pretty angry about that, saying it was just character assassination. 65 00:03:32,120 --> 00:03:34,359 Speaker 1: Why was that part of the press conference? I mean, 66 00:03:34,400 --> 00:03:36,119 Speaker 1: I know the answer to that, but from your point 67 00:03:36,120 --> 00:03:38,160 Speaker 1: of view, yeah, well, you'd have to ask the district 68 00:03:38,160 --> 00:03:41,040 Speaker 1: attorney why she put it in part of the press conference. 69 00:03:41,120 --> 00:03:44,440 Speaker 1: But I will say this, those are all facts that 70 00:03:44,480 --> 00:03:48,800 Speaker 1: were part of the investigation and so um my understanding 71 00:03:48,840 --> 00:03:51,560 Speaker 1: as she put it in and as part of her 72 00:03:52,200 --> 00:03:54,720 Speaker 1: uh press conference, because those are the some of the 73 00:03:54,720 --> 00:03:58,040 Speaker 1: factors that went into her decision making process. So she's 74 00:03:58,080 --> 00:04:01,800 Speaker 1: being transparent and telling people, um what her decision was 75 00:04:02,040 --> 00:04:04,480 Speaker 1: and how she came to that decision, right and listen, 76 00:04:04,520 --> 00:04:07,400 Speaker 1: it's frustrated me a little bit because the family is 77 00:04:07,440 --> 00:04:10,800 Speaker 1: aggrieved and and they're angry and the rest of it, 78 00:04:10,880 --> 00:04:14,080 Speaker 1: and they in the district attorney are talking past each other. 79 00:04:14,400 --> 00:04:16,359 Speaker 1: The reason that was in the press conference was she 80 00:04:16,480 --> 00:04:19,920 Speaker 1: was explaining why it would be extremely difficult, even if 81 00:04:20,000 --> 00:04:25,000 Speaker 1: charges were filed, to get a conviction, because you know, 82 00:04:25,080 --> 00:04:28,240 Speaker 1: obviously the defense would be he was an agitated young 83 00:04:28,279 --> 00:04:30,359 Speaker 1: man who was prone to committing crimes and he was 84 00:04:30,400 --> 00:04:33,960 Speaker 1: on a whole bunch of drugs and behaving erratically, and 85 00:04:34,080 --> 00:04:37,039 Speaker 1: so it would be very, very difficult to prove, prove 86 00:04:37,080 --> 00:04:40,520 Speaker 1: through a jury beyond a reasonable doubt that that the 87 00:04:40,560 --> 00:04:42,960 Speaker 1: cops were just completely out of control and they weren't 88 00:04:43,040 --> 00:04:45,800 Speaker 1: legitimately afraid for their lives because the way the young 89 00:04:45,839 --> 00:04:47,720 Speaker 1: man was acting. And you know, I don't know if 90 00:04:47,760 --> 00:04:50,200 Speaker 1: it's willful not wanting to recognize that on the part 91 00:04:50,240 --> 00:04:52,480 Speaker 1: of the family or what, but I just, like I said, 92 00:04:52,480 --> 00:04:56,359 Speaker 1: it's frustrating because people are legitimately angry and grief stricken 93 00:04:56,880 --> 00:04:59,599 Speaker 1: and and the communication doesn't seem to be great. Well, 94 00:04:59,600 --> 00:05:03,240 Speaker 1: and after said this before, UM, on this case and 95 00:05:03,360 --> 00:05:06,000 Speaker 1: any others that will come in the future, there's been 96 00:05:06,040 --> 00:05:10,719 Speaker 1: more transparency from this department than ever before, and it's 97 00:05:10,720 --> 00:05:15,400 Speaker 1: not even close. Um. But transparency by itself doesn't get 98 00:05:15,440 --> 00:05:17,440 Speaker 1: to the core of the issue that our community is 99 00:05:17,480 --> 00:05:19,560 Speaker 1: concerned about and that we are concerned about as a 100 00:05:19,560 --> 00:05:23,720 Speaker 1: police department. And transparency is not always pretty. Um. There 101 00:05:23,720 --> 00:05:27,919 Speaker 1: are challenges to transparency because some stuff is just graphic 102 00:05:28,120 --> 00:05:31,920 Speaker 1: and just you know, it causes people a lot of pain. Um. 103 00:05:32,040 --> 00:05:36,840 Speaker 1: So there there are consequences to transparency. Yeah, that's well said. 104 00:05:37,240 --> 00:05:40,320 Speaker 1: There's the other side of that coin. Uh, well, we 105 00:05:40,400 --> 00:05:43,720 Speaker 1: appreciate you being willing to talk. It's I think it's 106 00:05:43,800 --> 00:05:45,960 Speaker 1: notable we've talked about this with you on a couple 107 00:05:46,000 --> 00:05:49,520 Speaker 1: of different occasions that you guys have not hunkered down, 108 00:05:50,600 --> 00:05:53,800 Speaker 1: as you say, and uh, you know, coming transparency, Chief 109 00:05:53,839 --> 00:05:56,200 Speaker 1: Daniel Hans sacrament or a police department, we appreciate at 110 00:05:56,240 --> 00:05:57,840 Speaker 1: the time, thank you for having me, good to talk 111 00:05:57,880 --> 00:06:00,919 Speaker 1: to you. Thank you, And I supos should be pointed 112 00:06:00,920 --> 00:06:05,040 Speaker 1: out yet another police chief in America that is not 113 00:06:05,200 --> 00:06:08,360 Speaker 1: a white male, because that is a you know, popular 114 00:06:09,200 --> 00:06:13,440 Speaker 1: slogan of of rallies and campaigns and T shirts that 115 00:06:13,560 --> 00:06:16,080 Speaker 1: we have white police officers gunning down black men all 116 00:06:16,080 --> 00:06:19,680 Speaker 1: over the place. And um, yeah, yeah, you know, it's 117 00:06:19,720 --> 00:06:21,440 Speaker 1: like I said, it's it's tough to watch all this 118 00:06:21,600 --> 00:06:24,919 Speaker 1: unfold because I get I get the pain, and you know, 119 00:06:25,320 --> 00:06:28,080 Speaker 1: the family, honestly, most of the family of Stefan Clark 120 00:06:28,120 --> 00:06:33,279 Speaker 1: has been most of the family more than reasonable and 121 00:06:33,520 --> 00:06:37,400 Speaker 1: patient and the rest of it. But we're outraged at 122 00:06:37,520 --> 00:06:40,479 Speaker 1: some of the things disclosed by the district attorney. But 123 00:06:41,440 --> 00:06:44,200 Speaker 1: you know, transparency is transparency. We got this text the 124 00:06:44,200 --> 00:06:46,400 Speaker 1: police will just stop patrolling these areas with this kind 125 00:06:46,400 --> 00:06:49,960 Speaker 1: of crap happens in the future. There's no requirement that 126 00:06:50,000 --> 00:06:53,400 Speaker 1: you do. Yeah, I wonder if that, well, that has 127 00:06:53,440 --> 00:06:55,200 Speaker 1: happened some cities. We do know that well. I have 128 00:06:55,240 --> 00:06:58,680 Speaker 1: it on reasonably good authority from various law enforcement officers 129 00:06:58,720 --> 00:07:02,800 Speaker 1: that if the risk is too enormous, not only like 130 00:07:02,920 --> 00:07:06,040 Speaker 1: the legal risk, but the risk to life and limb um, 131 00:07:06,160 --> 00:07:08,720 Speaker 1: because you have to be passive. Like in Baltimore, this 132 00:07:08,800 --> 00:07:11,880 Speaker 1: was a big story when there was a big the 133 00:07:11,920 --> 00:07:15,760 Speaker 1: outrage over some some people dying in customary customing in Baltimore, 134 00:07:16,360 --> 00:07:19,960 Speaker 1: the police felt so cowed into inaction that it became 135 00:07:20,040 --> 00:07:24,400 Speaker 1: impossible to to police the dangerous neighborhoods. I'm not saying 136 00:07:24,440 --> 00:07:26,720 Speaker 1: they were right in that perception or they follow the 137 00:07:26,760 --> 00:07:30,120 Speaker 1: right strategy, but it's it's one of those things in 138 00:07:30,200 --> 00:07:35,000 Speaker 1: society that it's so hard finding the sweet spot between 139 00:07:35,120 --> 00:07:44,000 Speaker 1: assertiveness and caution and respect by coppers in dangerous neighborhoods. Um, 140 00:07:44,080 --> 00:07:51,400 Speaker 1: you can't be kitty cat in these neighborhoods. You can't 141 00:07:51,440 --> 00:07:56,040 Speaker 1: be too passive and what's the right word. I'm choosing 142 00:07:56,080 --> 00:08:00,000 Speaker 1: my words very carefully here, because people dying is no joke. Um. 143 00:08:00,040 --> 00:08:06,560 Speaker 1: But obviously you can't be belligerent and violent either unnecessarily violent. UM. 144 00:08:06,720 --> 00:08:09,560 Speaker 1: So it's it's it's a really difficult thing. I tell 145 00:08:09,560 --> 00:08:11,160 Speaker 1: you what I think. Chief Han is a hell of 146 00:08:11,200 --> 00:08:14,720 Speaker 1: a good man, though, and they are serious about helping 147 00:08:14,760 --> 00:08:18,800 Speaker 1: their officers understand what the policies are and what the 148 00:08:18,960 --> 00:08:22,800 Speaker 1: right practices are to get bad guys into custody and 149 00:08:22,880 --> 00:08:23,880 Speaker 1: keeping everybody safe.