1 00:00:25,280 --> 00:00:27,920 Speaker 1: Welcome to Securing America with me Frank Affney. The program 2 00:00:27,920 --> 00:00:30,560 Speaker 1: that's a kind of owner's manual for protecting the country 3 00:00:30,560 --> 00:00:33,800 Speaker 1: we love against all enemies foreign and domestic, to the 4 00:00:33,840 --> 00:00:36,800 Speaker 1: glory of God and his Kingdom. We're going to be 5 00:00:36,840 --> 00:00:41,120 Speaker 1: talking about China in the course of this very special program. 6 00:00:41,320 --> 00:00:44,040 Speaker 1: We have two of our leading experts on the subject 7 00:00:44,240 --> 00:00:47,839 Speaker 1: with us. I'm very pleased to say I had the 8 00:00:47,960 --> 00:00:49,800 Speaker 1: chance to spend a little time with both of them 9 00:00:49,880 --> 00:00:55,520 Speaker 1: in the course of a recent program and celebrations on 10 00:00:55,560 --> 00:00:59,760 Speaker 1: the margins of it with a very very much of 11 00:00:59,800 --> 00:01:06,360 Speaker 1: Mindir colleague and dear friend Jan Yekulek, who earlier this 12 00:01:06,440 --> 00:01:12,520 Speaker 1: week had a program with Rob Schneider in the Kennedy 13 00:01:13,120 --> 00:01:19,720 Speaker 1: Center excuse me, the Trump Kennedy Center Concert Hall, in 14 00:01:19,800 --> 00:01:26,520 Speaker 1: which they spoke about John's new book. It's entitled Killed 15 00:01:26,959 --> 00:01:32,880 Speaker 1: to Order, and it's about the horrific practice of industrial 16 00:01:33,040 --> 00:01:41,080 Speaker 1: scale organ harvesting by and to the great prophet of 17 00:01:41,120 --> 00:01:47,880 Speaker 1: the Chinese Communist Party. Our first guest, Cleo Pascal, is 18 00:01:47,920 --> 00:01:50,640 Speaker 1: best known for her work on what the Chinese are 19 00:01:50,720 --> 00:01:55,040 Speaker 1: up to in the waters of the Pacific. But I'm 20 00:01:55,040 --> 00:01:58,120 Speaker 1: going to take advantage of her joining us to ask 21 00:01:58,160 --> 00:02:01,240 Speaker 1: her to speak a little bit about this pro that 22 00:02:03,640 --> 00:02:09,040 Speaker 1: took place I think amidst growing awareness, certainly thanks in 23 00:02:09,200 --> 00:02:13,360 Speaker 1: no small measure to Yan's new book about what this 24 00:02:14,680 --> 00:02:19,440 Speaker 1: entails and what it means not only for the people 25 00:02:19,480 --> 00:02:21,680 Speaker 1: of China, but I believe the people of the world. 26 00:02:22,240 --> 00:02:26,600 Speaker 1: Cleo is, as I mentioned, a duty expert on the 27 00:02:26,600 --> 00:02:29,440 Speaker 1: Pacific Islands, and we'll talk with her about all of 28 00:02:29,480 --> 00:02:33,520 Speaker 1: that and more. She's also a senior non resident Fellow 29 00:02:33,760 --> 00:02:37,639 Speaker 1: of the Foundation for Defense of Democracies and a frequent 30 00:02:37,840 --> 00:02:40,800 Speaker 1: contributor to not only this program, and pleased to say, 31 00:02:40,800 --> 00:02:44,040 Speaker 1: but others like war Room with a Friends Deep Banner, 32 00:02:44,919 --> 00:02:49,360 Speaker 1: in which she brings to light, particularly in the arena 33 00:02:49,400 --> 00:02:53,480 Speaker 1: of political warfare the Chinese communists are up to and 34 00:02:53,639 --> 00:02:56,280 Speaker 1: the desperate need for us to be attentive to those 35 00:02:56,600 --> 00:03:01,160 Speaker 1: threats and correcting them wherever we find them. Cleail, thank 36 00:03:01,200 --> 00:03:03,040 Speaker 1: you so much for joining us and giving us some 37 00:03:03,080 --> 00:03:05,679 Speaker 1: time on your way to the airport. I so appreciate 38 00:03:05,720 --> 00:03:06,240 Speaker 1: your doing so. 39 00:03:07,480 --> 00:03:09,640 Speaker 2: A great pleasure. Thank thank you very much. 40 00:03:10,480 --> 00:03:12,799 Speaker 1: So let's start with the program that you and I 41 00:03:12,840 --> 00:03:15,399 Speaker 1: attended last night. You saw more of it than I did, 42 00:03:15,440 --> 00:03:18,600 Speaker 1: so I'm anxious to get your thoughts on the conversation 43 00:03:18,840 --> 00:03:22,959 Speaker 1: between On and Rob and you know, sort of the 44 00:03:23,639 --> 00:03:28,680 Speaker 1: showcasing of the book, yes, but also of the profoundly 45 00:03:28,760 --> 00:03:32,200 Speaker 1: troubling subject matter as well. 46 00:03:32,400 --> 00:03:32,640 Speaker 2: Yes. 47 00:03:32,880 --> 00:03:38,000 Speaker 3: So what Jan was very clear about was, yes, it's 48 00:03:38,040 --> 00:03:42,040 Speaker 3: about this horrific organ harvesting. That's that's going on. And 49 00:03:42,080 --> 00:03:44,600 Speaker 3: I actually don't like the term organic. It sounds it's 50 00:03:44,600 --> 00:03:48,720 Speaker 3: too benign. You know, this is you know, you're uh, you'r. 51 00:03:48,800 --> 00:03:54,440 Speaker 3: It's murder for profited and industrial scale and for a. 52 00:03:54,520 --> 00:03:57,440 Speaker 1: In a in a most barbaric way as I understand it. 53 00:03:57,440 --> 00:04:01,600 Speaker 1: It's often done without anesthesia, and it's taking these organs 54 00:04:01,800 --> 00:04:08,480 Speaker 1: out of live human beings. It's just unimaginably you know, demonic, really, 55 00:04:08,640 --> 00:04:09,000 Speaker 1: is it not? 56 00:04:09,560 --> 00:04:12,240 Speaker 3: Oh yeah, I mean it's soulless, right, I mean it's 57 00:04:12,320 --> 00:04:14,600 Speaker 3: kind of the definition of because you're looking at And 58 00:04:14,640 --> 00:04:19,159 Speaker 3: what they were discussing was this approach of the Chinese 59 00:04:19,200 --> 00:04:22,400 Speaker 3: Communist Party, of this instrumentalization where you're you don't look 60 00:04:22,440 --> 00:04:25,080 Speaker 3: at a human being with the soul, You're looking at 61 00:04:25,120 --> 00:04:29,159 Speaker 3: a collection of body parts with prices attached to each 62 00:04:29,160 --> 00:04:33,040 Speaker 3: of them. And this is what the book is actually about, 63 00:04:33,279 --> 00:04:37,719 Speaker 3: is this is how this system looks at everything, looks 64 00:04:37,720 --> 00:04:41,240 Speaker 3: at other countries, looks at resources, looks at allies. So 65 00:04:41,360 --> 00:04:45,680 Speaker 3: it's a way of a glimpse into a mindset that 66 00:04:45,839 --> 00:04:51,080 Speaker 3: is foreign to most of the people I would imagine 67 00:04:51,080 --> 00:04:53,919 Speaker 3: watching the show, unless they themselves have been victims of communism. 68 00:04:54,240 --> 00:04:58,600 Speaker 1: Yeah, well, and they would recognize it for sure. Talk 69 00:04:58,640 --> 00:05:03,479 Speaker 1: a little bit about the the technical overlay of this, Kleio, 70 00:05:03,680 --> 00:05:08,800 Speaker 1: because I think what's particularly ghoulish, to use your phrase 71 00:05:09,440 --> 00:05:14,799 Speaker 1: about this is the combination of the kind of DNA 72 00:05:15,320 --> 00:05:22,760 Speaker 1: profiling and the surveillance of everyone in China, most especially 73 00:05:23,120 --> 00:05:28,280 Speaker 1: you know, practitioners of Fallen Gong or Christians, or certainly 74 00:05:29,520 --> 00:05:33,479 Speaker 1: you know the Wigurs that are subjected to this, but 75 00:05:33,560 --> 00:05:37,040 Speaker 1: I think others in the you know, Chinese gulag, political 76 00:05:37,080 --> 00:05:40,200 Speaker 1: prisoners and the like are as well. How does that 77 00:05:40,320 --> 00:05:45,120 Speaker 1: interplay with you know, the murder for profit as you put. 78 00:05:44,920 --> 00:05:49,800 Speaker 3: In, Yeah, well, they're people who are problems for the state, 79 00:05:50,080 --> 00:05:52,440 Speaker 3: and anybody who is a person of faith is a 80 00:05:52,440 --> 00:05:55,280 Speaker 3: problem for the state because faith is in direct competition 81 00:05:55,400 --> 00:05:59,200 Speaker 3: yet with allegiance to or fear of the state. 82 00:06:00,200 --> 00:06:02,320 Speaker 1: Worship of it's a deity Jijii. 83 00:06:02,440 --> 00:06:04,360 Speaker 2: Yeah, Well that's right. 84 00:06:06,160 --> 00:06:09,680 Speaker 3: Is subject to potentially, I mean everybody is subject to 85 00:06:09,720 --> 00:06:13,000 Speaker 3: profiling obviously and collection as you mentioned of DNA. And 86 00:06:13,320 --> 00:06:16,720 Speaker 3: once you're in the prison system where the gulag system, 87 00:06:16,839 --> 00:06:20,400 Speaker 3: the concentration camps is, they're being called in in shinjengg 88 00:06:20,880 --> 00:06:24,400 Speaker 3: you know, they have all of your genetic profiling. And 89 00:06:24,440 --> 00:06:27,960 Speaker 3: the thing about Flong Gong practitioners in particular is they 90 00:06:28,000 --> 00:06:31,320 Speaker 3: are known for living a clean lifestyle. They don't drink 91 00:06:31,400 --> 00:06:36,040 Speaker 3: or smoke, and so their organs are particularly valuable. And 92 00:06:36,160 --> 00:06:38,640 Speaker 3: for the Wigers, for the people who are coming out 93 00:06:38,640 --> 00:06:42,800 Speaker 3: of the Middle East who want transplants, you have halal transplants. 94 00:06:43,400 --> 00:06:45,599 Speaker 3: So I mean, it's just the whole thing is just 95 00:06:46,560 --> 00:06:51,000 Speaker 3: indescribably horrific and it should be frankly the starting point 96 00:06:51,040 --> 00:06:54,040 Speaker 3: for any discussion about anything to do with the Chinese 97 00:06:54,080 --> 00:06:57,760 Speaker 3: Communist Party, you know, so when you're talking about should 98 00:06:58,160 --> 00:07:02,000 Speaker 3: well should we should there pension plan be investing in China? 99 00:07:02,600 --> 00:07:06,760 Speaker 3: Oh okay, you mean the place where they take Christians 100 00:07:06,760 --> 00:07:09,720 Speaker 3: and Wigers and fell On Gong off the street and 101 00:07:09,920 --> 00:07:12,480 Speaker 3: blood type them and DNA type them and wait until 102 00:07:12,680 --> 00:07:16,200 Speaker 3: somebody needs part of them and then kills them and 103 00:07:16,760 --> 00:07:19,280 Speaker 3: sells their parts. You mean those people. Is that where 104 00:07:19,320 --> 00:07:21,800 Speaker 3: you want your pension fund to go? So this should 105 00:07:21,840 --> 00:07:22,320 Speaker 3: just be the. 106 00:07:22,600 --> 00:07:27,920 Speaker 1: Starting You're not really objecting to the idea that you know, 107 00:07:29,000 --> 00:07:33,840 Speaker 1: we would make investments in or come cause with the 108 00:07:33,880 --> 00:07:37,680 Speaker 1: people of China. The problem is you're dealing with the 109 00:07:37,720 --> 00:07:40,840 Speaker 1: regime exclusively. You're obliged to you. 110 00:07:41,240 --> 00:07:45,600 Speaker 3: You're funding the regime that is oppressing, killing, and selling 111 00:07:45,680 --> 00:07:48,600 Speaker 3: the body parts of the people of China. You know 112 00:07:48,720 --> 00:07:50,800 Speaker 3: you care about the people of China. You do not 113 00:07:50,960 --> 00:07:54,280 Speaker 3: want this system to continue. 114 00:07:54,600 --> 00:07:58,000 Speaker 2: And I was I may just this. 115 00:07:58,240 --> 00:08:05,560 Speaker 1: This is such a pregnant topic. But if you think 116 00:08:06,080 --> 00:08:09,440 Speaker 1: that we will be treated better if the Chinese can 117 00:08:09,440 --> 00:08:12,240 Speaker 1: get their hands on us, then they treat their own people, 118 00:08:12,800 --> 00:08:16,240 Speaker 1: you're making a serious mistake. And I guess clear what 119 00:08:16,400 --> 00:08:18,880 Speaker 1: you're really getting at, and I think it's exactly the 120 00:08:18,920 --> 00:08:21,880 Speaker 1: place to start with the rest of our conversation. Is 121 00:08:23,000 --> 00:08:27,680 Speaker 1: the evil incarnate that is the Chinese Communist Party is 122 00:08:28,320 --> 00:08:32,600 Speaker 1: really exemplified in this splendid book of Yanya Kelex killed 123 00:08:33,080 --> 00:08:38,600 Speaker 1: to order and to the extent that that's what's operating here. 124 00:08:40,320 --> 00:08:43,000 Speaker 1: Is there any check on it at the moment at all? 125 00:08:43,080 --> 00:08:44,240 Speaker 1: As best you can tell. 126 00:08:44,320 --> 00:08:48,319 Speaker 3: Yeah, So no, And in fact, you use the word pregnant. 127 00:08:48,320 --> 00:08:51,040 Speaker 3: Remember this is the country of the one child policy 128 00:08:51,559 --> 00:08:55,559 Speaker 3: that was you know, forcibly sterilizing, and I mean it's 129 00:08:57,960 --> 00:09:01,040 Speaker 3: oh well, I mean that was yeah, I mean yes, 130 00:09:01,320 --> 00:09:05,520 Speaker 3: and I mean I can't imagine what else. So you know, 131 00:09:05,600 --> 00:09:08,880 Speaker 3: it's not and I really can't imagine what else because 132 00:09:08,880 --> 00:09:10,679 Speaker 3: it is an evil at a level that is very 133 00:09:10,679 --> 00:09:13,520 Speaker 3: difficult for me to comprehend. 134 00:09:13,559 --> 00:09:14,080 Speaker 4: But I. 135 00:09:15,760 --> 00:09:17,360 Speaker 2: So, yes, it's. 136 00:09:19,400 --> 00:09:22,959 Speaker 3: They use the medical system as a way also of 137 00:09:23,000 --> 00:09:26,880 Speaker 3: control and oppression. So it's not just this, it's you know, 138 00:09:26,960 --> 00:09:30,120 Speaker 3: if you if you don't support the Chinese Communist Party, 139 00:09:30,559 --> 00:09:34,240 Speaker 3: good luck getting healthcare in any And remember the state 140 00:09:34,320 --> 00:09:36,840 Speaker 3: is linked into everything, but they're exporting it. 141 00:09:36,880 --> 00:09:39,400 Speaker 1: We'll talk about it, creator system. Yeah, that's what we 142 00:09:39,480 --> 00:09:40,880 Speaker 1: have to take a break. In fact, we're going to 143 00:09:40,880 --> 00:09:43,000 Speaker 1: talk about it on the other side of this very 144 00:09:43,000 --> 00:09:47,160 Speaker 1: short break. Cleo Pascal, the Foundation for Defensive Democracy, is 145 00:09:47,160 --> 00:09:50,040 Speaker 1: one of the world's great experts on the Chinese Communist 146 00:09:50,120 --> 00:09:54,440 Speaker 1: Party what it is up to, particularly in the fast 147 00:09:54,480 --> 00:09:58,520 Speaker 1: reaches of the Pacific, the Indo Pacific, I should say 148 00:09:58,559 --> 00:09:59,800 Speaker 1: as well, and we're going to talk a little bit 149 00:09:59,800 --> 00:10:02,080 Speaker 1: about that on the other side of this short play. 150 00:10:02,360 --> 00:10:05,080 Speaker 1: Please stay tuned for much more with Cleo. Right after this. 151 00:10:25,920 --> 00:10:28,840 Speaker 1: We're back, and so is Cleo Pascal Praise God. Cleo 152 00:10:29,200 --> 00:10:34,520 Speaker 1: is joining us and sharing some insights into some aspects 153 00:10:34,679 --> 00:10:39,800 Speaker 1: of the main thing as our friend Captain James Fanel 154 00:10:39,960 --> 00:10:43,120 Speaker 1: and our Committee on the Present Danger China, which Cleol 155 00:10:43,280 --> 00:10:46,800 Speaker 1: is an important member, are very much seized with, namely 156 00:10:47,200 --> 00:10:50,320 Speaker 1: the Chinese Communist Party, and Cleo, you are making an 157 00:10:50,360 --> 00:10:55,240 Speaker 1: important point that connects to kind of what we need 158 00:10:55,280 --> 00:10:56,920 Speaker 1: to do next, which is sort of back that lends 159 00:10:57,000 --> 00:10:59,840 Speaker 1: up here, and that is that the Chinese Communist Party 160 00:11:01,000 --> 00:11:06,719 Speaker 1: not only uses technology like DNA, you know, mapping and 161 00:11:07,480 --> 00:11:11,360 Speaker 1: aggregating of data and all of that, but also the 162 00:11:11,400 --> 00:11:17,960 Speaker 1: world's most comprehensive surveillance state apparatus and the means by 163 00:11:18,000 --> 00:11:22,960 Speaker 1: which it enables them essentially to have real time knowledge 164 00:11:22,960 --> 00:11:26,160 Speaker 1: of where everybody is in China and what they're doing, 165 00:11:26,320 --> 00:11:32,080 Speaker 1: what they're thinking, what they might, if left to their 166 00:11:32,120 --> 00:11:36,040 Speaker 1: own devices, feel, or say or do about the Chinese 167 00:11:36,080 --> 00:11:40,880 Speaker 1: Communist Party. Not least this is called the social credit system. 168 00:11:41,440 --> 00:11:44,520 Speaker 1: Would you help us understand what that is exactly and 169 00:11:44,559 --> 00:11:46,240 Speaker 1: what it means in practice? 170 00:11:46,559 --> 00:11:47,920 Speaker 2: Sure, yes, it is. 171 00:11:48,080 --> 00:11:52,040 Speaker 3: It's a method of social control whereby if you do 172 00:11:52,160 --> 00:11:55,320 Speaker 3: things that the party doesn't like, you know you are 173 00:11:56,000 --> 00:11:58,800 Speaker 3: that's noted. And if you have things that you have 174 00:11:58,880 --> 00:12:01,880 Speaker 3: to do like read and pink thought every day, that 175 00:12:02,040 --> 00:12:06,040 Speaker 3: is noted and it's it's digitized. And we saw it 176 00:12:06,120 --> 00:12:09,200 Speaker 3: in full action during COVID, where you know, you couldn't 177 00:12:09,800 --> 00:12:12,040 Speaker 3: cross the street or get on a bus or because 178 00:12:12,200 --> 00:12:14,679 Speaker 3: you have to have your phone with you so it 179 00:12:14,679 --> 00:12:19,280 Speaker 3: it you're carrying your own monitoring device. And we saw 180 00:12:19,320 --> 00:12:23,240 Speaker 3: elements of it. I'm Canadian, right, so we saw elements 181 00:12:23,240 --> 00:12:27,120 Speaker 3: of it even in Canada. I mean we had bank 182 00:12:27,120 --> 00:12:31,679 Speaker 3: accounts being frozen because they supported the truckers while it 183 00:12:31,840 --> 00:12:34,240 Speaker 3: was legal, you know, roadblocks. 184 00:12:34,360 --> 00:12:36,359 Speaker 2: So you're starting the system. 185 00:12:36,080 --> 00:12:41,560 Speaker 3: Is the dream of authoritarianism and that it's really been refined. 186 00:12:41,920 --> 00:12:44,959 Speaker 3: But the point is to tie it to what Yanya 187 00:12:45,040 --> 00:12:48,040 Speaker 3: Kellik wrote about and killed to order, is there is 188 00:12:48,080 --> 00:12:51,959 Speaker 3: a a melding of the medical system into the social 189 00:12:51,960 --> 00:12:56,200 Speaker 3: credit system that you're starting to see even be exported 190 00:12:56,200 --> 00:12:58,240 Speaker 3: out of China. So if you look at the Solomon Islands, 191 00:12:58,240 --> 00:13:02,400 Speaker 3: for example, which is an area a country that switched 192 00:13:02,400 --> 00:13:05,720 Speaker 3: from Taiwan to China in twenty nineteen, you can see 193 00:13:06,080 --> 00:13:08,080 Speaker 3: what China can get away with if it can. And 194 00:13:08,120 --> 00:13:10,080 Speaker 3: one of the things that it did was there was 195 00:13:10,480 --> 00:13:15,559 Speaker 3: a man there called Daniel Sudani who is the premier 196 00:13:15,600 --> 00:13:20,240 Speaker 3: of one of the provinces, and he and his leadership 197 00:13:20,440 --> 00:13:24,280 Speaker 3: issued to communicate blocking the entrance of any new CCP 198 00:13:24,360 --> 00:13:27,760 Speaker 3: link businesses into the province because they were concerned about 199 00:13:27,760 --> 00:13:32,319 Speaker 3: what it was doing environmentally, but also very explicitly based 200 00:13:32,360 --> 00:13:35,640 Speaker 3: on freedom of religion. They didn't want to have to 201 00:13:35,679 --> 00:13:39,360 Speaker 3: do with a systemically atheist country, which is what they 202 00:13:39,360 --> 00:13:43,280 Speaker 3: were calling it. So they and the Chinese proxies in 203 00:13:43,320 --> 00:13:45,200 Speaker 3: the government obviously, yeah, that's right. 204 00:13:45,280 --> 00:13:47,920 Speaker 2: Yeah, Oh, they mentioned the CCP specifically. 205 00:13:50,200 --> 00:13:50,400 Speaker 4: Yeah. 206 00:13:50,440 --> 00:13:53,760 Speaker 3: They went after him and he needed medical care at 207 00:13:53,760 --> 00:13:58,080 Speaker 3: one point, and the federal government said he needed an 208 00:13:58,160 --> 00:14:00,320 Speaker 3: MRI and there was no MRI in the country, And 209 00:14:00,360 --> 00:14:03,200 Speaker 3: the federal government said, we'll pay for your MRI outside 210 00:14:03,240 --> 00:14:05,960 Speaker 3: the country, but you have to let in the Chinese 211 00:14:06,120 --> 00:14:09,320 Speaker 3: and he said no. So, I mean there are people 212 00:14:09,320 --> 00:14:12,000 Speaker 3: out there on the front line of this willing to 213 00:14:12,120 --> 00:14:14,080 Speaker 3: die rather than take Chinese money. 214 00:14:14,600 --> 00:14:15,080 Speaker 2: His case. 215 00:14:15,120 --> 00:14:18,120 Speaker 3: What happened was somebody in India heard about it, got 216 00:14:18,160 --> 00:14:21,040 Speaker 3: in touch with the President's office in Taiwan. They got 217 00:14:21,120 --> 00:14:23,680 Speaker 3: him out for medical care. He came back, but he 218 00:14:23,760 --> 00:14:28,680 Speaker 3: subsequently had kidney failure, went into hospital. This was just 219 00:14:28,760 --> 00:14:32,280 Speaker 3: last year, and there was only one dialysis machine in 220 00:14:32,320 --> 00:14:35,280 Speaker 3: the country and it had been donated by China, and 221 00:14:35,280 --> 00:14:37,640 Speaker 3: it was operated by a Chinese doctor and he didn't 222 00:14:37,680 --> 00:14:42,320 Speaker 3: get dialysis and he died. So we're seeing an exportation 223 00:14:42,920 --> 00:14:46,640 Speaker 3: of the social credit system straight into the medical system 224 00:14:47,280 --> 00:14:50,680 Speaker 3: of countries where China, the Chinese Communist Party has enough 225 00:14:50,760 --> 00:14:53,320 Speaker 3: leverage to be able to control the population that way. 226 00:14:54,960 --> 00:14:58,680 Speaker 1: Well. And the ruthlessness with which they will pursue their 227 00:14:58,800 --> 00:15:01,800 Speaker 1: ends is evident in that story, and I thank you 228 00:15:01,840 --> 00:15:06,960 Speaker 1: for sharing it, Clil. Since we're in the region that 229 00:15:07,080 --> 00:15:12,800 Speaker 1: you specialize in, talk a little bit about another island 230 00:15:13,120 --> 00:15:18,400 Speaker 1: that is of great importance to us, really paramount importance, 231 00:15:18,440 --> 00:15:20,480 Speaker 1: I would argue, and I think you feel that way too. 232 00:15:21,400 --> 00:15:25,640 Speaker 1: In the Indian Ocean, Diego Garcia has been a critically 233 00:15:27,720 --> 00:15:32,920 Speaker 1: needed facility for projecting American power throughout much of them 234 00:15:33,440 --> 00:15:37,600 Speaker 1: on the side of the world. You have led heroically 235 00:15:38,120 --> 00:15:42,120 Speaker 1: a fight to assure that that continues to be the case, 236 00:15:43,200 --> 00:15:47,280 Speaker 1: despite efforts that the British government is making to engineer 237 00:15:47,800 --> 00:15:52,440 Speaker 1: arrangements for the disposition of this island that almost certainly 238 00:15:53,160 --> 00:15:56,520 Speaker 1: will preclude our use of it in the future. Indeed 239 00:15:57,000 --> 00:15:59,920 Speaker 1: have to some extent constricted our use of it even 240 00:16:00,200 --> 00:16:02,440 Speaker 1: now in the midst of this Iran war. Talk about 241 00:16:02,480 --> 00:16:03,760 Speaker 1: all that at Diego Garcia. 242 00:16:03,800 --> 00:16:08,320 Speaker 3: If you so this is this was quite something. So 243 00:16:08,400 --> 00:16:13,600 Speaker 3: Diego Garcia is on UK soil, British soil. It was 244 00:16:13,920 --> 00:16:18,120 Speaker 3: sort of a colonial remnant. It was being administered by 245 00:16:18,120 --> 00:16:22,200 Speaker 3: the British out of Mauritius. But Mauritius very far away. 246 00:16:22,240 --> 00:16:25,720 Speaker 3: It's actually physically closer to India or the Maldives. It's 247 00:16:25,760 --> 00:16:30,239 Speaker 3: on the eastern side of the Southern Indian Ocean. Imurtius 248 00:16:30,280 --> 00:16:31,920 Speaker 3: is on the western side. 249 00:16:32,560 --> 00:16:34,280 Speaker 1: Something like twelve hundred miles away. 250 00:16:34,760 --> 00:16:35,680 Speaker 2: It's pretty far. 251 00:16:35,880 --> 00:16:40,320 Speaker 3: It's pretty far, and it's part of a chain of 252 00:16:40,360 --> 00:16:44,680 Speaker 3: islands called the Chegos Archipelago, about sixty islands or so, 253 00:16:45,000 --> 00:16:46,280 Speaker 3: and a lot of them are atolls, so they have 254 00:16:46,360 --> 00:16:50,920 Speaker 3: multiple islands within the north South chain, and it's it 255 00:16:50,960 --> 00:16:54,560 Speaker 3: was deep forcibly depopulated by the British and then in 256 00:16:54,600 --> 00:16:57,360 Speaker 3: the late sixties early seventies and the US and the 257 00:16:57,360 --> 00:16:59,560 Speaker 3: British together, but it was really paid for by the US, 258 00:16:59,600 --> 00:17:02,240 Speaker 3: set up a major base on one of the islands 259 00:17:02,280 --> 00:17:06,800 Speaker 3: called Diego Garcia. That base is unique because it can 260 00:17:07,000 --> 00:17:10,520 Speaker 3: resupply nuclear submarines. The strategic bombers can land there, it 261 00:17:10,560 --> 00:17:15,360 Speaker 3: can port aircraft carriers, it has the ability to collect 262 00:17:15,400 --> 00:17:19,000 Speaker 3: critical information from a very wide range, and it's where 263 00:17:19,560 --> 00:17:23,040 Speaker 3: under normal circumstances, for example, a lot of the operations 264 00:17:23,400 --> 00:17:25,919 Speaker 3: in Iran would have been launched from and then go 265 00:17:26,040 --> 00:17:32,880 Speaker 3: back to resupply all that stuff. The British, specifically Prime 266 00:17:32,880 --> 00:17:38,320 Speaker 3: Minister Cure Starmer, has had an agenda to give the 267 00:17:38,520 --> 00:17:43,240 Speaker 3: entire chain of islands to Mauritius and then just give 268 00:17:43,280 --> 00:17:47,760 Speaker 3: them and then pay to lease back just Diego Garcia 269 00:17:48,320 --> 00:17:50,960 Speaker 3: for the cost of tens of billions on a ninety 270 00:17:51,040 --> 00:17:55,080 Speaker 3: nine year lease. And according to the agreement, the lease agreement, 271 00:17:55,280 --> 00:18:00,760 Speaker 3: if the UK stops payment for one year, the least. 272 00:18:00,520 --> 00:18:03,119 Speaker 1: Can be turned out one year. I thought a month. 273 00:18:03,800 --> 00:18:06,600 Speaker 3: Well, if they miss a payment and they're supposed to pay, 274 00:18:06,720 --> 00:18:13,000 Speaker 3: I think on an annual basis. Regardless, I think that 275 00:18:13,040 --> 00:18:17,040 Speaker 3: the agreement is designed not to last. And the person 276 00:18:17,119 --> 00:18:21,800 Speaker 3: negotiating the agreement for Mauritius was a brit who is 277 00:18:21,840 --> 00:18:25,720 Speaker 3: a close friend of Cure Starmer and the National Security 278 00:18:25,760 --> 00:18:29,480 Speaker 3: Advisor current National Security Advisor in the UK, a guy 279 00:18:29,480 --> 00:18:32,560 Speaker 3: called Jonathan Powell, was a desk officer during the Hong 280 00:18:32,640 --> 00:18:35,600 Speaker 3: Kong handover. He has a consultancy that did a lot 281 00:18:35,600 --> 00:18:38,840 Speaker 3: of work with China. He himself has visited China fairly regularly, 282 00:18:39,119 --> 00:18:42,040 Speaker 3: and Mauritius is known to have Mauritius leadership is known 283 00:18:42,080 --> 00:18:45,080 Speaker 3: to be quite corrupt and has close ties with China. 284 00:18:45,600 --> 00:18:48,600 Speaker 3: So the whole thing looks like an excuse to first 285 00:18:48,680 --> 00:18:52,720 Speaker 3: isolate Diego Garcia, get you know, Chinese resorts on some 286 00:18:52,800 --> 00:18:55,879 Speaker 3: of the neighboring islands, Chinese fishing fleet floating around, that 287 00:18:55,920 --> 00:19:00,080 Speaker 3: sort of thing, and then eventually for the base to 288 00:19:00,119 --> 00:19:03,560 Speaker 3: be threatened legally. And if you had a different sort 289 00:19:03,600 --> 00:19:07,840 Speaker 3: of administration in Washington, that legal challenge might end up 290 00:19:07,880 --> 00:19:09,080 Speaker 3: being effective. 291 00:19:10,160 --> 00:19:13,920 Speaker 1: Perhaps because there would be nuclear weapons stored there, which 292 00:19:13,920 --> 00:19:19,359 Speaker 1: would be violating a treaty that the Merchians have signed. Yes, 293 00:19:19,560 --> 00:19:21,600 Speaker 1: we just very quickly, I've got to take a break here, 294 00:19:21,760 --> 00:19:25,640 Speaker 1: just a moment. But as I understand it, Cleo Kure 295 00:19:25,720 --> 00:19:32,080 Speaker 1: Starmer's campaign on Diego has already resulted in our restricted 296 00:19:32,240 --> 00:19:34,920 Speaker 1: use of it in the Iran War. That we've been 297 00:19:34,960 --> 00:19:37,720 Speaker 1: able only to use it for defensive purposes. Is that correct? 298 00:19:38,040 --> 00:19:38,560 Speaker 2: That's correct. 299 00:19:38,600 --> 00:19:42,440 Speaker 3: So initially the British blocked the UK the US from 300 00:19:42,520 --> 00:19:46,760 Speaker 3: using any of their bases at all. Now they're just 301 00:19:46,880 --> 00:19:49,480 Speaker 3: being allowed to be used for defensive purposes of hitting 302 00:19:49,520 --> 00:19:50,800 Speaker 3: missile sites, things like that. 303 00:19:52,200 --> 00:19:55,480 Speaker 1: This is a prime example of what's to come and 304 00:19:56,160 --> 00:19:59,040 Speaker 1: must be repudiated. And Cleo, thank you for your leadership 305 00:19:59,040 --> 00:20:00,600 Speaker 1: on it. We have to take a short break, will 306 00:20:00,640 --> 00:20:02,879 Speaker 1: be right back with more with Cleo Pascal. Stay tuned. 307 00:20:23,359 --> 00:20:26,240 Speaker 1: Welcome back to you, of course, but also to Cleo 308 00:20:26,320 --> 00:20:30,679 Speaker 1: Pascal of the Foundation for Defense of Democracies. If she is, 309 00:20:30,720 --> 00:20:34,320 Speaker 1: as she mentioned, Canadian by birth, but very much a 310 00:20:34,480 --> 00:20:37,280 Speaker 1: bi national treasure as far as I'm concerned, and we're 311 00:20:37,480 --> 00:20:41,320 Speaker 1: always delighted to have her with us to talk about well, 312 00:20:41,640 --> 00:20:45,280 Speaker 1: the defense of the United States in what she considers 313 00:20:45,359 --> 00:20:49,959 Speaker 1: to be rightly I think our western frontier, which is 314 00:20:50,040 --> 00:20:53,800 Speaker 1: in the Central Pacific by Guam for example, or the 315 00:20:53,880 --> 00:20:58,520 Speaker 1: Marianas Cleo, I do want to focus on that part 316 00:20:58,640 --> 00:21:04,640 Speaker 1: of your portfolio next. It involves something that you actually 317 00:21:05,920 --> 00:21:11,320 Speaker 1: provided photographic evidence of which you shared with me yesterday. 318 00:21:11,760 --> 00:21:13,600 Speaker 1: I'd like to see if we can bring it up 319 00:21:13,640 --> 00:21:16,360 Speaker 1: on the screen at this point. But if we can't, 320 00:21:16,440 --> 00:21:20,479 Speaker 1: we'll just describe it. Tell us what you've discovered in 321 00:21:20,600 --> 00:21:24,200 Speaker 1: your travels out in that part of the world recently, 322 00:21:24,680 --> 00:21:26,680 Speaker 1: specifically on the island of Yap. 323 00:21:27,880 --> 00:21:31,359 Speaker 3: So, Yap is in the Second Island Chain. It's in 324 00:21:31,400 --> 00:21:35,120 Speaker 3: between Guam and Palau Palao. Second World War people might 325 00:21:35,200 --> 00:21:38,320 Speaker 3: know for the Battle of Pelulu, this is a highly 326 00:21:38,359 --> 00:21:43,720 Speaker 3: strategic zone. And if China is going to take Taiwan, 327 00:21:43,880 --> 00:21:47,880 Speaker 3: as it repeatedly says it will try to, these islands 328 00:21:47,920 --> 00:21:51,159 Speaker 3: need to be neutralized. Now, I don't know what that 329 00:21:51,200 --> 00:21:53,639 Speaker 3: would look like, whether it's kinetic or not, but the 330 00:21:53,800 --> 00:21:57,320 Speaker 3: US military is concerned to the point where they're rebuilding 331 00:21:57,359 --> 00:21:59,960 Speaker 3: a lot or building a lot of military or Julie 332 00:22:00,200 --> 00:22:05,000 Speaker 3: infrastructure along the whole chain, including on the island of Yap. 333 00:22:05,080 --> 00:22:09,800 Speaker 3: So what I had originally read was reporting about Secretary 334 00:22:09,880 --> 00:22:13,439 Speaker 3: Headset Investing talking about investing about two billion dollars on 335 00:22:13,520 --> 00:22:15,479 Speaker 3: the island of Yap. Now, the island of Yapp has 336 00:22:15,520 --> 00:22:19,000 Speaker 3: a population of about five thousand people, but they're looking 337 00:22:19,080 --> 00:22:22,040 Speaker 3: at building about a ten thousand foot runway and redoing 338 00:22:22,119 --> 00:22:25,800 Speaker 3: the port. Yap is the name of the of an island, 339 00:22:25,800 --> 00:22:28,679 Speaker 3: but it's also the name of the state the island 340 00:22:28,760 --> 00:22:30,480 Speaker 3: is in, So it's like the city of New York 341 00:22:30,520 --> 00:22:31,639 Speaker 3: and the state. 342 00:22:31,359 --> 00:22:31,880 Speaker 2: Of New York. 343 00:22:32,359 --> 00:22:36,800 Speaker 3: And yeah, and the rest of that chain has a 344 00:22:36,840 --> 00:22:39,040 Speaker 3: whole series of islands, and one of them is called 345 00:22:39,200 --> 00:22:45,840 Speaker 3: Wooly Eye. Both Yap and wooly Ie are about four 346 00:22:45,920 --> 00:22:49,040 Speaker 3: hundred miles from Guam. So Guam is here, Yap Island 347 00:22:49,080 --> 00:22:51,919 Speaker 3: of Yap is here, Woolyye is here. And I had 348 00:22:51,960 --> 00:22:54,440 Speaker 3: heard that the Chinese were doing something out on Woolyi, 349 00:22:55,720 --> 00:22:58,200 Speaker 3: so I went out. 350 00:22:58,880 --> 00:22:59,520 Speaker 2: I had been. 351 00:22:59,400 --> 00:23:02,760 Speaker 3: Reassured by people in the US military, don't worry, We've 352 00:23:02,760 --> 00:23:08,520 Speaker 3: got it covered. Everything's fined, And I went and very 353 00:23:08,560 --> 00:23:11,680 Speaker 3: shortly after I arrived, the President of the country arrived 354 00:23:12,520 --> 00:23:17,520 Speaker 3: and disappeared off into the forest because he was going 355 00:23:17,560 --> 00:23:22,240 Speaker 3: to inaugurate the groundbreaking of a Japanese Chinese work crew 356 00:23:22,320 --> 00:23:28,120 Speaker 3: rebuilding a Japanese imperial runway on Woollei. That runway has 357 00:23:28,240 --> 00:23:33,080 Speaker 3: now been completed. It's about three thousand feet long, about 358 00:23:33,080 --> 00:23:40,800 Speaker 3: eighty feet wide. It's not ideal, obviously from a strategic 359 00:23:40,840 --> 00:23:45,560 Speaker 3: and logistical perspective, but what it actually accomplished really was 360 00:23:45,760 --> 00:23:48,280 Speaker 3: the state of Yap was very resistant to letting in 361 00:23:48,440 --> 00:23:52,320 Speaker 3: Chinese investment. But they needed a runway because people needed 362 00:23:52,359 --> 00:23:54,880 Speaker 3: to be able to metavac out of there. 363 00:23:55,880 --> 00:23:57,240 Speaker 2: You know, it's a it. 364 00:23:57,160 --> 00:24:00,159 Speaker 3: Can take five or six weeks for a boat to 365 00:24:00,320 --> 00:24:03,160 Speaker 3: come through on a on a regular basis, and then 366 00:24:03,200 --> 00:24:05,600 Speaker 3: you've got five or six days to get by boat 367 00:24:05,640 --> 00:24:09,240 Speaker 3: to hospital, so you know, if you need I was 368 00:24:09,280 --> 00:24:13,560 Speaker 3: staying with with somebody there and they needed a prostate exam. 369 00:24:14,640 --> 00:24:18,960 Speaker 3: That meant three months basically because they had to wait 370 00:24:19,000 --> 00:24:20,520 Speaker 3: for the boat to come, take the boat to the 371 00:24:20,520 --> 00:24:22,960 Speaker 3: main island, get the exam, wait for the boat, and 372 00:24:23,080 --> 00:24:27,400 Speaker 3: come back. So it's just not tenable. So they needed 373 00:24:27,400 --> 00:24:31,040 Speaker 3: the runway. And there's a missionary airline that does metavacts 374 00:24:31,400 --> 00:24:33,399 Speaker 3: that will be able to use it. But so they 375 00:24:33,480 --> 00:24:36,080 Speaker 3: let in the Chinese work crew. That Chinese work crew 376 00:24:36,119 --> 00:24:39,080 Speaker 3: has now moved from there to the main island where 377 00:24:39,119 --> 00:24:43,040 Speaker 3: the Americans are setting up their their their operations to 378 00:24:43,080 --> 00:24:45,320 Speaker 3: work on a bridge and to work on secondary roads. 379 00:24:45,880 --> 00:24:48,240 Speaker 3: So they used it as a way of getting into 380 00:24:48,280 --> 00:24:51,359 Speaker 3: the systems and now they're on the ground as the 381 00:24:51,480 --> 00:24:54,719 Speaker 3: US is trying to build up this infrastructure to protect 382 00:24:54,720 --> 00:24:55,680 Speaker 3: against China. 383 00:24:55,880 --> 00:24:59,960 Speaker 1: So clear what you're describing here is a classic excit 384 00:25:00,000 --> 00:25:03,280 Speaker 1: sample of the sort of well I compare it to 385 00:25:03,320 --> 00:25:08,280 Speaker 1: the old frog boiling, you know, analogy that it's incremental, 386 00:25:08,359 --> 00:25:11,280 Speaker 1: it's piece by piece death of a thousand cuts, I 387 00:25:11,320 --> 00:25:13,760 Speaker 1: guess is another way of putting it. But it's all 388 00:25:13,920 --> 00:25:19,240 Speaker 1: in the service of the Chinese political warfare strategy, is 389 00:25:19,280 --> 00:25:23,840 Speaker 1: it not. And the oh, the strategic ambitions that the 390 00:25:23,880 --> 00:25:27,520 Speaker 1: CCP has, and just you know, describe those if you would, 391 00:25:28,200 --> 00:25:31,280 Speaker 1: as you say it specifically in terms of what they 392 00:25:31,520 --> 00:25:33,040 Speaker 1: portend for the Central Pacific. 393 00:25:33,880 --> 00:25:36,680 Speaker 3: Yes, so their their goal. So what is the goal 394 00:25:36,720 --> 00:25:38,240 Speaker 3: of China or who is China? 395 00:25:39,000 --> 00:25:39,199 Speaker 2: You know? 396 00:25:39,240 --> 00:25:42,680 Speaker 3: The goal is obviously what's best for the Chinese Communist 397 00:25:42,680 --> 00:25:44,879 Speaker 3: Party first and foremost, and then second is to be 398 00:25:44,960 --> 00:25:47,560 Speaker 3: number one in the world, a comprehensive national power. And 399 00:25:47,720 --> 00:25:50,560 Speaker 3: part of the strategic component of that is at least 400 00:25:50,560 --> 00:25:55,680 Speaker 3: hegemony in the in the Pacific, pushing the US back 401 00:25:55,720 --> 00:25:59,760 Speaker 3: to Hawaii as as I think Admiral Keating was told 402 00:25:59,760 --> 00:26:05,000 Speaker 3: into does innate by a Chinese official, but ultimately global, 403 00:26:05,119 --> 00:26:07,560 Speaker 3: you know, making the world safe for the Chinese Communist Party. 404 00:26:08,000 --> 00:26:10,920 Speaker 3: So and an essential component of that they studied World 405 00:26:10,960 --> 00:26:14,080 Speaker 3: War Two very carefully. They know both the strengths and 406 00:26:14,080 --> 00:26:17,480 Speaker 3: weaknesses of the US and Japanese operations, and control over 407 00:26:17,520 --> 00:26:19,920 Speaker 3: the Central Pacific is essential for that. 408 00:26:21,520 --> 00:26:25,480 Speaker 1: And safe for the Chinese Communist Party means that it's 409 00:26:26,040 --> 00:26:28,040 Speaker 1: very dangerous for the rest of us, does it not? 410 00:26:28,960 --> 00:26:33,280 Speaker 1: And I wanted to ask you in that reconnection about 411 00:26:34,160 --> 00:26:39,480 Speaker 1: an example of the political warfare strategy with respect to 412 00:26:40,080 --> 00:26:44,399 Speaker 1: what the Chinese call elite capture. And you've been making 413 00:26:44,440 --> 00:26:51,000 Speaker 1: book on an American official who has been given the 414 00:26:51,040 --> 00:26:57,959 Speaker 1: responsibility incredibly for essentially managing the US position in this region, 415 00:26:58,880 --> 00:27:03,520 Speaker 1: the Central Pacific, and even dispersing you know, billions of 416 00:27:03,560 --> 00:27:07,400 Speaker 1: dollars in funds to the region. Tell us about him, 417 00:27:07,640 --> 00:27:10,479 Speaker 1: tell us about the role that he's currently playing, what 418 00:27:10,560 --> 00:27:15,840 Speaker 1: he previously did that smacks of, well, Chinese elite capture. 419 00:27:16,240 --> 00:27:18,440 Speaker 1: Whether this is a fellow who ought to be anywhere near, 420 00:27:19,160 --> 00:27:22,600 Speaker 1: you know, decision making responsibilities in this critical part of 421 00:27:22,600 --> 00:27:24,240 Speaker 1: the world. 422 00:27:23,960 --> 00:27:30,679 Speaker 3: So we're talking about the current Deputy Assistant Secretary for 423 00:27:31,400 --> 00:27:34,919 Speaker 3: Insular and International Affairs at the Department of Interior, so 424 00:27:35,040 --> 00:27:40,520 Speaker 3: this whole area his name is Angel Demapan, and the 425 00:27:40,640 --> 00:27:45,240 Speaker 3: territories of Guam US territories of Guam and the Commonwealth 426 00:27:45,320 --> 00:27:49,480 Speaker 3: under the Mariana Islands. This is American soil with US 427 00:27:49,520 --> 00:27:51,960 Speaker 3: citizens on It is an. 428 00:27:51,880 --> 00:27:56,320 Speaker 2: Eight hour flight west of Hawaii, but four hours from 429 00:27:56,480 --> 00:27:58,640 Speaker 2: Japan or Taiwan. It's right. 430 00:27:58,680 --> 00:28:01,119 Speaker 3: These are Americans living right on the front line, right 431 00:28:01,200 --> 00:28:03,840 Speaker 3: on the Second Island chain. He's from one of those islands. 432 00:28:03,840 --> 00:28:07,960 Speaker 3: He's from Tinian which is where the Anola Gay took 433 00:28:08,000 --> 00:28:13,840 Speaker 3: off from, for example. It's very highly strategic. He was 434 00:28:13,880 --> 00:28:17,560 Speaker 3: in the parliament in the legislature. My Canadian is showing 435 00:28:18,000 --> 00:28:22,080 Speaker 3: in the CNMI, and then he ran for Congress. When 436 00:28:22,119 --> 00:28:25,800 Speaker 3: he was in the legislature in CNMI, he wrote legislation. 437 00:28:26,359 --> 00:28:28,480 Speaker 3: He was part of the team that wrote legislation that 438 00:28:28,560 --> 00:28:32,160 Speaker 3: made it easier for Chinese casino to set up there. 439 00:28:32,200 --> 00:28:36,040 Speaker 3: He was also chief of staff for a governor that 440 00:28:36,600 --> 00:28:39,720 Speaker 3: was the governor that, in spite of referendu from the 441 00:28:39,720 --> 00:28:43,360 Speaker 3: people of CNMI against the casino, allowed the Chinese casino 442 00:28:43,440 --> 00:28:46,440 Speaker 3: to come in. He then worked as chief of staff 443 00:28:46,600 --> 00:28:48,800 Speaker 3: for the woman that represents the common Wealth of Northern 444 00:28:48,800 --> 00:28:52,120 Speaker 3: Mariana Islands in Congress. In US Congress, she's the one 445 00:28:52,160 --> 00:28:55,840 Speaker 3: that's pushing to continue for Chinese to have visa free 446 00:28:55,880 --> 00:28:59,120 Speaker 3: access into the comwalth of Northern Marianas. We've gone over 447 00:28:59,160 --> 00:29:01,640 Speaker 3: this over and over. Chinese can arrive without a visa 448 00:29:01,760 --> 00:29:04,640 Speaker 3: there when he ran for congresshomeself. 449 00:29:04,200 --> 00:29:06,160 Speaker 1: And what does that portend? 450 00:29:06,480 --> 00:29:09,640 Speaker 3: So they're legally not supposed to leave CNMI, but at 451 00:29:09,720 --> 00:29:12,320 Speaker 3: least in the hundreds they're taking the boat sixty miles 452 00:29:12,400 --> 00:29:16,360 Speaker 3: to Guam. Chinese have the women that ran the Bureau 453 00:29:16,360 --> 00:29:20,800 Speaker 3: of Murder Vehicles in the Marianas was convicted of selling 454 00:29:20,880 --> 00:29:26,800 Speaker 3: driver's licenses to Chinese nationals. They've been involved in human trafficking, murder. 455 00:29:26,800 --> 00:29:28,800 Speaker 3: I mean, these are all on the record convictions. 456 00:29:29,960 --> 00:29:33,040 Speaker 1: Ain't the idea of getting into Guam without a visa 457 00:29:33,200 --> 00:29:35,480 Speaker 1: means that you're into the United States perfectly? 458 00:29:35,520 --> 00:29:36,920 Speaker 3: Well, they are in the United States when they come 459 00:29:36,920 --> 00:29:40,720 Speaker 3: into CNMI, But what it also means is they're they're 460 00:29:40,960 --> 00:29:45,840 Speaker 3: they're near one of the most strategically important critical locations 461 00:29:45,880 --> 00:29:49,560 Speaker 3: for US defense, Guam, and we know that Chinese are 462 00:29:49,600 --> 00:29:52,680 Speaker 3: already in the critical infrastructure through volt Typhoon and other 463 00:29:52,760 --> 00:29:56,800 Speaker 3: cyber and if they go after Taiwan, they're going to 464 00:29:56,880 --> 00:29:59,800 Speaker 3: have to take Guam offline and CNMI. 465 00:29:59,840 --> 00:30:01,000 Speaker 2: But specifically Guam. 466 00:30:01,120 --> 00:30:03,120 Speaker 3: So they've got if you want to put people in place, 467 00:30:03,160 --> 00:30:04,680 Speaker 3: this is a good way of putting people in place, 468 00:30:05,560 --> 00:30:07,080 Speaker 3: and an angel. 469 00:30:06,840 --> 00:30:08,160 Speaker 1: Deposition to do damage. 470 00:30:08,240 --> 00:30:12,560 Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, he and he when he ran for Congress, 471 00:30:12,880 --> 00:30:16,360 Speaker 3: he took money from illegally took money from Chinese companies 472 00:30:16,440 --> 00:30:19,920 Speaker 3: as per FEC filings, but it was past the statute limitations. 473 00:30:20,400 --> 00:30:23,680 Speaker 3: So the so nothing happened to him, And he's now 474 00:30:23,720 --> 00:30:28,520 Speaker 3: the person, he's the face. He's who negotiates on behalf 475 00:30:28,600 --> 00:30:32,280 Speaker 3: of the US with the Kamal and dream Ranz and 476 00:30:32,360 --> 00:30:36,840 Speaker 3: Guam and Palau and yap Uh and the Fedies, the 477 00:30:36,920 --> 00:30:39,640 Speaker 3: rest of the Federal States of Micronesia and the Marshall Islands, 478 00:30:40,680 --> 00:30:41,600 Speaker 3: and so they. 479 00:30:43,160 --> 00:30:45,080 Speaker 1: Well, you know, and again if this, if this were 480 00:30:45,120 --> 00:30:49,960 Speaker 1: not a widespread practice in our country, this would be 481 00:30:49,960 --> 00:30:53,440 Speaker 1: a singular problem. But it is an example of a 482 00:30:53,600 --> 00:30:58,120 Speaker 1: very serious, widespread problem, and particularly egregious in this case. 483 00:30:58,240 --> 00:30:59,800 Speaker 1: This is in the Trump administration. 484 00:31:00,160 --> 00:31:04,840 Speaker 3: No less, it's perplexing how he got the appointment. And 485 00:31:05,080 --> 00:31:07,400 Speaker 3: you know, two of those countries, Palow and Marshall Islands 486 00:31:07,400 --> 00:31:11,760 Speaker 3: recognized Taiwan, So they know they're sitting down opposite the 487 00:31:11,800 --> 00:31:16,400 Speaker 3: table of a guy who took Chinese casino money for 488 00:31:16,520 --> 00:31:20,720 Speaker 3: his political campaign, and he's representing the US government for 489 00:31:20,880 --> 00:31:24,960 Speaker 3: countries that have made the principal decision to recognize Taiwan. 490 00:31:26,000 --> 00:31:32,600 Speaker 1: And presumably that translates into growing pressure on them to, 491 00:31:34,240 --> 00:31:39,000 Speaker 1: you know, fall into line with the Chinese with their ambitions, 492 00:31:39,120 --> 00:31:46,080 Speaker 1: with their penetrations, and ultimately with their control of what 493 00:31:46,240 --> 00:31:49,880 Speaker 1: is the western frontier of the United States. As you've 494 00:31:49,880 --> 00:31:52,800 Speaker 1: pointed out, Cleop Escal, we have to leave it at 495 00:31:52,800 --> 00:31:54,720 Speaker 1: that for the moment, but so much more to cover, 496 00:31:54,920 --> 00:31:58,320 Speaker 1: so much we rely upon you to provide us in 497 00:31:58,320 --> 00:32:01,160 Speaker 1: the wave updates on this. Thank you, come back. 498 00:32:01,000 --> 00:32:03,960 Speaker 2: Soon, Thank you very much, Thank you, sir. 499 00:32:04,400 --> 00:32:27,080 Speaker 1: We'll be right back, folks staying We're back. And so 500 00:32:27,240 --> 00:32:31,360 Speaker 1: is Colonel Grant Newsham, United States Marine Corps, retired former 501 00:32:31,400 --> 00:32:38,400 Speaker 1: Foreign Service officer. Man of extremely impressive both business and 502 00:32:40,920 --> 00:32:45,280 Speaker 1: military credentials. He has been in the Far East for 503 00:32:45,320 --> 00:32:49,160 Speaker 1: twenty five years or so, and is therefore, we like 504 00:32:49,200 --> 00:32:54,280 Speaker 1: to think, our forward deployed assets, and we're always delighted 505 00:32:54,280 --> 00:32:56,400 Speaker 1: to catch up with him. He is the author of 506 00:32:56,480 --> 00:33:02,440 Speaker 1: a best selling book about China entitled When China Attacks 507 00:33:03,000 --> 00:33:05,920 Speaker 1: Wanting to America. You can also find his work at 508 00:33:05,920 --> 00:33:09,600 Speaker 1: the Center Force Security Policy dot Org, of which he 509 00:33:09,720 --> 00:33:12,600 Speaker 1: is a senior fellow. Colonel. Welcome back, so good to 510 00:33:12,600 --> 00:33:15,880 Speaker 1: have you with us. Welcome to Washington, d C. Where 511 00:33:15,880 --> 00:33:18,240 Speaker 1: we both find ourselves and chance to catch up a 512 00:33:18,240 --> 00:33:22,280 Speaker 1: little bit at Jan Yaculek's splendid events that the Kennedy Center, 513 00:33:22,320 --> 00:33:25,360 Speaker 1: excuse me, the Trump Kennedy Center last night. Good to 514 00:33:25,400 --> 00:33:25,920 Speaker 1: have you back. 515 00:33:26,480 --> 00:33:27,520 Speaker 4: I'm glad to be here. 516 00:33:28,360 --> 00:33:32,640 Speaker 1: So we might talk a little bit about that Kennedy 517 00:33:32,680 --> 00:33:36,800 Speaker 1: Center event, Brent. But before we do, let me get 518 00:33:36,840 --> 00:33:40,880 Speaker 1: to some urgent matters of business. One is what is 519 00:33:40,960 --> 00:33:43,960 Speaker 1: China up to as you see it in connection with 520 00:33:44,880 --> 00:33:48,320 Speaker 1: the Iran war. I'm hearing reports that they are aiding 521 00:33:48,320 --> 00:33:52,400 Speaker 1: and abetting the Iranians, not a surprise, they're a principal ally, 522 00:33:52,480 --> 00:33:57,920 Speaker 1: of course, but also that they're being importuned by President 523 00:33:57,960 --> 00:34:02,760 Speaker 1: Trump to send military forces to the Strait of Hormuz 524 00:34:03,160 --> 00:34:06,240 Speaker 1: to try to make sure that its ally doesn't continue 525 00:34:06,320 --> 00:34:11,400 Speaker 1: to impede traffic there. Walk us through what's going on here, sir, Well. 526 00:34:11,280 --> 00:34:13,840 Speaker 4: The Chinese would like to see the Americans get bogged 527 00:34:13,880 --> 00:34:19,319 Speaker 4: down in Iran. They are certainly providing targeting information for 528 00:34:20,080 --> 00:34:23,280 Speaker 4: Iranian drones, Iranian missiles, and that's one of the reasons 529 00:34:23,280 --> 00:34:27,319 Speaker 4: why they had to hit what they're aiming at. And 530 00:34:27,360 --> 00:34:29,680 Speaker 4: it's because of help the Chinese are giving them, not 531 00:34:29,719 --> 00:34:31,760 Speaker 4: just the Russians, but the Chinese. 532 00:34:31,719 --> 00:34:37,759 Speaker 1: And those would be American bases and diplomatic in relations 533 00:34:37,800 --> 00:34:39,240 Speaker 1: and the like. Is that correct? 534 00:34:39,440 --> 00:34:42,399 Speaker 4: It certainly would be Americans are the prime target, but 535 00:34:42,440 --> 00:34:47,120 Speaker 4: also if you're hitting other targets and the Gulf states that, well, 536 00:34:47,360 --> 00:34:49,000 Speaker 4: you've got to know what you're aiming. You have to 537 00:34:49,040 --> 00:34:51,360 Speaker 4: be able to direct the missiles, the drones to it. 538 00:34:51,440 --> 00:34:53,440 Speaker 4: And that's what hell. Chinese are really helping. 539 00:34:54,560 --> 00:34:57,600 Speaker 1: Until the Russians are doing so as well. But this 540 00:34:57,760 --> 00:35:01,800 Speaker 1: is unhelpful to us obviously. What about this idea of 541 00:35:02,360 --> 00:35:04,799 Speaker 1: them helping us with the straight of hormones. What do 542 00:35:04,800 --> 00:35:05,359 Speaker 1: you make of that? 543 00:35:06,920 --> 00:35:10,680 Speaker 4: Well, China's an enemy and there's no reason they should 544 00:35:10,680 --> 00:35:13,960 Speaker 4: be asked or that they should be involved in it. 545 00:35:13,960 --> 00:35:17,840 Speaker 4: It may just be because President Trump was listing some countries, 546 00:35:18,640 --> 00:35:23,400 Speaker 4: but China is on Iran's side. They want Iran to succeed. 547 00:35:23,520 --> 00:35:26,360 Speaker 4: I suppose someone might say it's a devious way to 548 00:35:26,400 --> 00:35:29,680 Speaker 4: sort of force the Chinese to come out against their 549 00:35:29,719 --> 00:35:32,440 Speaker 4: main client. And on the side of the West, on 550 00:35:32,480 --> 00:35:36,319 Speaker 4: the side well as at least the Americans. I think 551 00:35:36,400 --> 00:35:39,840 Speaker 4: that's probably stretching things a little too much. At the 552 00:35:39,920 --> 00:35:41,759 Speaker 4: end of the day, China is an enemy, and I 553 00:35:41,760 --> 00:35:44,640 Speaker 4: don't think they're going to be sending anything to help 554 00:35:44,680 --> 00:35:46,680 Speaker 4: out in the way that we would think they will. 555 00:35:46,760 --> 00:35:48,600 Speaker 4: In fact, I think it's more likely they're going to 556 00:35:49,280 --> 00:35:51,560 Speaker 4: as they've already done, is cut a deal with the 557 00:35:51,560 --> 00:35:55,719 Speaker 4: Iranians and tell them let Chinese ships and ships going 558 00:35:55,760 --> 00:35:59,359 Speaker 4: to China get through. And I think that's what we're 559 00:35:59,480 --> 00:36:03,520 Speaker 4: likely to see. That's right. Yeah, apparently there's the Americans 560 00:36:03,520 --> 00:36:08,120 Speaker 4: are letting ships go through with oil and a lot 561 00:36:08,120 --> 00:36:09,160 Speaker 4: of that goes to China. 562 00:36:09,400 --> 00:36:12,880 Speaker 1: Yeah. But colonel, let me just ask you about the 563 00:36:12,960 --> 00:36:19,640 Speaker 1: precedent here. There was a time when Somali pirates were 564 00:36:20,320 --> 00:36:27,840 Speaker 1: a scourge off the east coast of Africa, and whether 565 00:36:27,880 --> 00:36:30,840 Speaker 1: that was Barack Obama or who, but somebody had the 566 00:36:30,840 --> 00:36:37,719 Speaker 1: bright idea of encouraging the Chinese to send naval forces 567 00:36:37,920 --> 00:36:42,960 Speaker 1: to the region to help patrol those waters. How exactly 568 00:36:42,960 --> 00:36:45,000 Speaker 1: did that work out? So well? 569 00:36:45,000 --> 00:36:48,480 Speaker 4: It gave the Chinese experience at operating naval forces a 570 00:36:48,600 --> 00:36:52,520 Speaker 4: very very long distance from China, and they've done, goodness, 571 00:36:52,560 --> 00:36:56,719 Speaker 4: forty patrols at least, and they've gotten the experience they 572 00:36:56,800 --> 00:37:00,640 Speaker 4: need to go out somewhere far away and fight, and 573 00:37:00,920 --> 00:37:03,239 Speaker 4: that means fight us as well. You know, whoever thought 574 00:37:03,239 --> 00:37:05,360 Speaker 4: it was a good idea to encourage the Chinese to 575 00:37:05,400 --> 00:37:08,960 Speaker 4: get that kind of experience, well really was not at 576 00:37:08,960 --> 00:37:10,919 Speaker 4: the high end of the IQ spectrum. 577 00:37:11,480 --> 00:37:13,360 Speaker 1: Well, there was a time, as I recall, and I 578 00:37:13,360 --> 00:37:18,799 Speaker 1: don't remember which combatant commander it was, I believe it 579 00:37:18,840 --> 00:37:24,160 Speaker 1: was what we called at the time, sink Pak thought 580 00:37:24,239 --> 00:37:28,560 Speaker 1: that we ought to be training the Chinese and aircraft 581 00:37:28,600 --> 00:37:32,960 Speaker 1: carrier operations. This is a kind of hardy perennial that 582 00:37:33,160 --> 00:37:36,759 Speaker 1: military and military cooperation is going to benefit us. But 583 00:37:37,440 --> 00:37:41,759 Speaker 1: didn't the Chinese take up a permanent position in Djibouti 584 00:37:42,480 --> 00:37:45,359 Speaker 1: in the midst of all of this? And what has 585 00:37:45,440 --> 00:37:49,719 Speaker 1: that done in terms of not only giving them operational experience, 586 00:37:49,800 --> 00:37:54,440 Speaker 1: but being able to, you know, have a permanent forward 587 00:37:54,480 --> 00:37:57,080 Speaker 1: operating power projection capability. 588 00:37:57,520 --> 00:37:59,520 Speaker 4: Well, it's given as you said, it's given them a 589 00:37:59,560 --> 00:38:02,840 Speaker 4: base right in that strategic part of the globe. 590 00:38:03,480 --> 00:38:06,160 Speaker 1: The Chinese up to a marine base. If I'm not mistake, 591 00:38:06,239 --> 00:38:06,680 Speaker 1: that's right. 592 00:38:06,800 --> 00:38:08,760 Speaker 4: There's a US marine. 593 00:38:08,800 --> 00:38:10,279 Speaker 1: What could possibly go wrong with that? 594 00:38:10,719 --> 00:38:14,279 Speaker 4: There's a Japanese base nearby two and the commander of 595 00:38:14,320 --> 00:38:18,399 Speaker 4: the base with a marine colonel actually when he first 596 00:38:18,440 --> 00:38:21,920 Speaker 4: saw the Chinese show up and he was asking around 597 00:38:21,960 --> 00:38:24,919 Speaker 4: and the French were telling him. The Djiboutians were telling 598 00:38:25,000 --> 00:38:28,160 Speaker 4: him that this is where it's going to end. With 599 00:38:28,280 --> 00:38:32,200 Speaker 4: the Chinese base. He reported that in the State department 600 00:38:32,239 --> 00:38:34,360 Speaker 4: told him to shut up and stay in his lane. 601 00:38:34,719 --> 00:38:36,759 Speaker 4: And then you had, within a decade or so, you 602 00:38:36,880 --> 00:38:41,800 Speaker 4: actually had. Now it's about at least a very strong 603 00:38:41,840 --> 00:38:46,320 Speaker 4: battalion of PLA forces in Djibouti. It's a formal base. 604 00:38:46,360 --> 00:38:49,960 Speaker 4: They have facilities that can handle anything in the Chinese 605 00:38:50,040 --> 00:38:52,120 Speaker 4: Navy as well, and they tell you openly this is 606 00:38:52,160 --> 00:38:55,000 Speaker 4: to protect our interests in this region. You always know 607 00:38:55,040 --> 00:38:57,760 Speaker 4: exactly what you're going to get with the Chinese. It 608 00:38:57,920 --> 00:38:59,920 Speaker 4: just helps if you listen to them. 609 00:39:00,840 --> 00:39:03,759 Speaker 1: Screwed, I think is the technical term for it as 610 00:39:03,840 --> 00:39:07,399 Speaker 1: a general proposition. Colonel, Let me ask you about one 611 00:39:07,400 --> 00:39:09,320 Speaker 1: other thing before we have to take a short break. 612 00:39:10,160 --> 00:39:14,960 Speaker 1: In terms of this support to the Iranians, it's not 613 00:39:15,200 --> 00:39:20,960 Speaker 1: apparently confined to you know, intelligence. There seems to be 614 00:39:21,320 --> 00:39:26,400 Speaker 1: a continuing effort by the Chinese to resupply the Iranians 615 00:39:26,400 --> 00:39:29,840 Speaker 1: with military equipment when we took on either side of 616 00:39:29,880 --> 00:39:31,320 Speaker 1: the break. I want to ask you about the quality 617 00:39:31,320 --> 00:39:33,440 Speaker 1: of it. But is that a thing? Are they getting 618 00:39:33,520 --> 00:39:35,279 Speaker 1: stuff from China at the moment? Do you know? 619 00:39:35,520 --> 00:39:39,400 Speaker 4: It certainly seems so. And that concludes a they're actually 620 00:39:39,480 --> 00:39:44,200 Speaker 4: completed drone sets coming in and the. 621 00:39:44,280 --> 00:39:46,200 Speaker 1: Other how are they getting there? Coonl Well, you. 622 00:39:46,200 --> 00:39:51,719 Speaker 4: Can actually bring it by land, it by rail from well, 623 00:39:52,000 --> 00:39:54,160 Speaker 4: it's a sort of up and round through Russia down 624 00:39:54,840 --> 00:39:57,759 Speaker 4: via the Caspians. You have to see if you look 625 00:39:57,760 --> 00:40:00,000 Speaker 4: at the map, it's they do have a route. 626 00:39:59,760 --> 00:40:02,879 Speaker 1: For a circuitous route of Alva Lamb. All right, more 627 00:40:02,880 --> 00:40:04,799 Speaker 1: on this in a moment. Colonel Grant Neusham is in 628 00:40:04,840 --> 00:40:06,839 Speaker 1: the house. Pause. God will be right back with more. 629 00:40:07,000 --> 00:40:30,399 Speaker 1: Stay tuned, Welcome back. Colonel Grant Neusham is in the house. 630 00:40:30,480 --> 00:40:33,239 Speaker 1: Praise the Lord. We are talking with him about China, 631 00:40:33,320 --> 00:40:36,040 Speaker 1: as we often do. He is the author of a 632 00:40:36,160 --> 00:40:40,600 Speaker 1: very important best selling book on the subject when China attacks, 633 00:40:41,200 --> 00:40:44,640 Speaker 1: and Colonel I did want to just follow up on 634 00:40:44,719 --> 00:40:49,640 Speaker 1: this point of what the Chinese military equipment that is 635 00:40:49,680 --> 00:40:57,880 Speaker 1: being made available to clients like the Iranians amounts to 636 00:40:58,040 --> 00:41:04,399 Speaker 1: in terms of its technical performance in both Venezuela and 637 00:41:04,680 --> 00:41:07,920 Speaker 1: in the war to date in Iran, it seems not 638 00:41:08,000 --> 00:41:11,520 Speaker 1: to have measured up terribly well against LACEE forces like 639 00:41:11,560 --> 00:41:14,880 Speaker 1: those of the United States and Israel. What is your 640 00:41:14,920 --> 00:41:16,759 Speaker 1: assessments or of their kit. 641 00:41:17,880 --> 00:41:20,879 Speaker 4: Well, it hasn't worked out very well for the Venezuelans 642 00:41:21,000 --> 00:41:23,640 Speaker 4: or the Iranians, and that's something we should sort of 643 00:41:23,680 --> 00:41:25,839 Speaker 4: breathe a sigh of relief and be grateful that we 644 00:41:25,840 --> 00:41:27,759 Speaker 4: were able to get through those so easily. And it 645 00:41:27,840 --> 00:41:30,359 Speaker 4: is a credit, I think to our own forces that 646 00:41:30,400 --> 00:41:33,520 Speaker 4: we have some very clever people working for us. At 647 00:41:33,560 --> 00:41:37,319 Speaker 4: the same time, you say you don't get overconfident here, 648 00:41:37,360 --> 00:41:40,600 Speaker 4: it could be partially the way it was employed. And 649 00:41:40,719 --> 00:41:44,080 Speaker 4: we are just talking about some limited weaponry or some systems, 650 00:41:44,120 --> 00:41:49,960 Speaker 4: which particularly the air defense components. But was also talk 651 00:41:50,040 --> 00:41:53,960 Speaker 4: of advanced anti ship cruise missiles being given to the Iranians. 652 00:41:53,960 --> 00:41:57,319 Speaker 4: It's not clear if those were actually fired, but the 653 00:41:57,520 --> 00:42:01,440 Speaker 4: Chinese anti ship missiles are actually pretty good, and I 654 00:42:01,480 --> 00:42:05,880 Speaker 4: think it's something that we should not say relax our guard. 655 00:42:05,920 --> 00:42:09,560 Speaker 4: We shouldn't think, oh, because Iran in Venezuela sort of 656 00:42:09,719 --> 00:42:12,959 Speaker 4: went belly up that that will happen in a fight 657 00:42:13,040 --> 00:42:16,960 Speaker 4: directly with the Chinese. You know, they know, they say so. 658 00:42:17,680 --> 00:42:20,680 Speaker 4: You know, we're fortunate now, but we have to take 659 00:42:20,719 --> 00:42:21,799 Speaker 4: them very seriously. 660 00:42:21,960 --> 00:42:24,879 Speaker 1: Yeah, and there's also a question I think you would 661 00:42:24,920 --> 00:42:28,160 Speaker 1: agree that have they been sold the best of the 662 00:42:28,239 --> 00:42:31,880 Speaker 1: Chinese equipment too? And if not, you know what we 663 00:42:31,960 --> 00:42:34,920 Speaker 1: might find ourselves up against, if God forbid, we do 664 00:42:34,960 --> 00:42:38,960 Speaker 1: get into a shooting war with China. Yeah, qualitatively different. 665 00:42:39,680 --> 00:42:42,080 Speaker 1: I wanted to ask you about that prospect. Colonel you 666 00:42:42,400 --> 00:42:46,760 Speaker 1: were following this as closely as anybody, again generally speaking 667 00:42:46,800 --> 00:42:51,960 Speaker 1: from close at hand. The concern I know you've expressed 668 00:42:52,360 --> 00:42:55,920 Speaker 1: as recently as a very important Committee on the Present 669 00:42:55,960 --> 00:43:00,160 Speaker 1: Danger of China, which you are an important member, we 670 00:43:00,200 --> 00:43:04,040 Speaker 1: did a webinar recently in which we were exploring sort 671 00:43:04,080 --> 00:43:07,640 Speaker 1: of what are the implications of this war for the Chinese, 672 00:43:08,200 --> 00:43:12,160 Speaker 1: and I think you express concern that is shared by 673 00:43:12,320 --> 00:43:14,920 Speaker 1: a number of us that one of the downsides of 674 00:43:14,920 --> 00:43:17,440 Speaker 1: all of this may well be that we find ourselves 675 00:43:17,480 --> 00:43:22,160 Speaker 1: with a war on our hands in this region. That 676 00:43:22,200 --> 00:43:26,440 Speaker 1: would be the Middle East, taking our eye off the ball, 677 00:43:26,520 --> 00:43:31,000 Speaker 1: or at least our capabilities down in the Pacific and 678 00:43:31,040 --> 00:43:35,520 Speaker 1: perhaps even inviting aggression by the Chinese Communist Party. Your 679 00:43:35,600 --> 00:43:36,879 Speaker 1: current assessment of all. 680 00:43:36,800 --> 00:43:40,279 Speaker 4: That, well, I think we've still got enough forces in 681 00:43:40,320 --> 00:43:42,799 Speaker 4: the region if it does come to an all out fight, 682 00:43:42,880 --> 00:43:45,360 Speaker 4: to cause the Chinese a lot of harm. But the 683 00:43:45,440 --> 00:43:49,640 Speaker 4: US military, the Air Force, the Navy in particular, are 684 00:43:49,640 --> 00:43:52,680 Speaker 4: not big enough to cover the entire globe. And if 685 00:43:52,719 --> 00:43:53,880 Speaker 4: you move, well, they. 686 00:43:53,840 --> 00:43:54,439 Speaker 1: Kind of can. 687 00:43:54,520 --> 00:43:56,920 Speaker 4: But if you move forces from one place to another, 688 00:43:57,000 --> 00:44:01,080 Speaker 4: you leave at least a thin spot. And that's just 689 00:44:01,160 --> 00:44:03,680 Speaker 4: the nature of things. This comes of thirty years of 690 00:44:03,880 --> 00:44:08,560 Speaker 4: you know, having can you know, let our military erode 691 00:44:08,600 --> 00:44:11,319 Speaker 4: because we won the Cold War, we would never fight 692 00:44:11,360 --> 00:44:14,440 Speaker 4: a high end opponent again, and now we have to 693 00:44:14,480 --> 00:44:15,440 Speaker 4: deal this with this. 694 00:44:15,600 --> 00:44:18,360 Speaker 1: But we are you're suggesting, not that that was true, 695 00:44:18,360 --> 00:44:20,760 Speaker 1: but that was ourception. 696 00:44:21,000 --> 00:44:24,920 Speaker 4: That that's stupidity. I think that, you know, somehow the 697 00:44:24,960 --> 00:44:27,000 Speaker 4: world was going to become a nice place, so we 698 00:44:27,080 --> 00:44:29,880 Speaker 4: in some ways we you know, that was the expression 699 00:44:30,520 --> 00:44:34,040 Speaker 4: and democracy won. And you know, so you kind of 700 00:44:34,080 --> 00:44:37,520 Speaker 4: resembles the Dutch boy, you know, with leaks in the dike. 701 00:44:37,640 --> 00:44:40,240 Speaker 4: You know, you can poke, you know, you can plug 702 00:44:40,280 --> 00:44:42,319 Speaker 4: a few of them, but you better hope some more 703 00:44:42,920 --> 00:44:47,000 Speaker 4: holes don't spring. That's how Yeah, so we're thinly stretched. 704 00:44:47,000 --> 00:44:49,200 Speaker 4: But if the Chinese were to pull the pull the 705 00:44:49,200 --> 00:44:51,319 Speaker 4: trigger and say, well, we're going to go. Because the 706 00:44:51,360 --> 00:44:55,000 Speaker 4: Americans are so committed in Iran, I'm not sure they're 707 00:44:55,080 --> 00:44:58,640 Speaker 4: ready to sort of deal with the effects of effectively 708 00:44:58,680 --> 00:45:01,160 Speaker 4: World War three and a comple cut off in trade, 709 00:45:01,600 --> 00:45:05,120 Speaker 4: financial dealans, technology, and treating them like an enemy like 710 00:45:05,160 --> 00:45:07,640 Speaker 4: we should have done years ago. I'm not sure they're 711 00:45:07,680 --> 00:45:10,600 Speaker 4: ready for that. But we say our US forces are 712 00:45:11,400 --> 00:45:14,239 Speaker 4: simply not big enough to cover the whole globe adequately, 713 00:45:14,280 --> 00:45:16,000 Speaker 4: and that's been true for a long time. 714 00:45:17,400 --> 00:45:21,239 Speaker 1: In that connection, Colonel, just very quickly. There are a 715 00:45:21,280 --> 00:45:26,759 Speaker 1: couple of other elements in those calculations, of course, one 716 00:45:26,800 --> 00:45:29,799 Speaker 1: of which would be the Japanese. And you have been 717 00:45:29,840 --> 00:45:33,120 Speaker 1: based in Japan for much of your life, both in 718 00:45:33,239 --> 00:45:39,719 Speaker 1: uniform and as a civilian. The President is importuning the 719 00:45:39,800 --> 00:45:43,319 Speaker 1: Japanese Prime Minister, who I believe is visiting the White 720 00:45:43,360 --> 00:45:48,200 Speaker 1: House today, if I'm not mistaken to send forces to 721 00:45:49,000 --> 00:45:54,040 Speaker 1: the Gulf to try to demonstrate their solidarity with us 722 00:45:54,080 --> 00:45:59,480 Speaker 1: in protecting the strait of hormones. You have opined in 723 00:45:59,560 --> 00:46:01,880 Speaker 1: writing that that would be a good thing for the 724 00:46:01,960 --> 00:46:07,080 Speaker 1: Japanese to do. The current Prime Minister is reluctant. It seems. 725 00:46:07,760 --> 00:46:09,799 Speaker 1: Where do you think this stands? And where is it 726 00:46:09,960 --> 00:46:11,759 Speaker 1: likely to head from here? Do you think? 727 00:46:12,280 --> 00:46:15,960 Speaker 4: I think if the Americans make their request clear and 728 00:46:16,200 --> 00:46:19,920 Speaker 4: you know, say force, you know, forcefully, I think Japan 729 00:46:20,000 --> 00:46:22,719 Speaker 4: would contribute. I think they don't want to. It's just 730 00:46:23,000 --> 00:46:25,440 Speaker 4: the nature of Japan and the Japanese is to avoid 731 00:46:25,480 --> 00:46:29,440 Speaker 4: difficult things. They're trying to wriggle out of it and 732 00:46:29,480 --> 00:46:32,600 Speaker 4: will probably try to do some mix, some minimal contribution. 733 00:46:33,160 --> 00:46:35,800 Speaker 4: But this is very important for them because the bottom 734 00:46:35,840 --> 00:46:38,839 Speaker 4: line is there's not just President Trump, but a lot 735 00:46:38,840 --> 00:46:42,640 Speaker 4: of Americas who flyover fly for country, you know, whose 736 00:46:42,760 --> 00:46:45,440 Speaker 4: children joined the military. They're saying, well, if you won't 737 00:46:45,520 --> 00:46:47,839 Speaker 4: die for us or fight for us, why should we 738 00:46:47,920 --> 00:46:50,920 Speaker 4: fight for you and die for you? And it's always 739 00:46:50,920 --> 00:46:53,279 Speaker 4: been assumed for many years by our you know, the 740 00:46:53,320 --> 00:46:56,719 Speaker 4: best and brightest to run foreign policy in America, that well, 741 00:46:56,760 --> 00:47:00,640 Speaker 4: we'll send those quotes I think you said right now, 742 00:47:01,600 --> 00:47:04,719 Speaker 4: if not contempt that, well, we'll just send the troops in. 743 00:47:05,000 --> 00:47:08,560 Speaker 4: Doesn't matter if anyone helps us out, and they'll do 744 00:47:08,640 --> 00:47:11,839 Speaker 4: what they're told, well, I think those days are over, 745 00:47:11,960 --> 00:47:15,200 Speaker 4: and I think Japan needs to recognize that. And I 746 00:47:15,239 --> 00:47:17,439 Speaker 4: think there's more of a sense of it than there's 747 00:47:17,480 --> 00:47:20,000 Speaker 4: ever been. That it's not just Donald Trump who's being 748 00:47:20,080 --> 00:47:23,080 Speaker 4: mean to them. But Japan has a pretty good military, 749 00:47:23,120 --> 00:47:25,960 Speaker 4: particularly their navy, and they have a contribution they could make. 750 00:47:26,320 --> 00:47:29,200 Speaker 4: It's time that they actually go somewhere and take some risk. 751 00:47:29,640 --> 00:47:31,959 Speaker 4: If they go and say, well, put us somewhere safe 752 00:47:32,000 --> 00:47:35,640 Speaker 4: where we won't get hurt, well, that's just going to 753 00:47:35,680 --> 00:47:39,480 Speaker 4: embarrass the Japanese and make us and also raise some 754 00:47:39,600 --> 00:47:43,440 Speaker 4: questions about who on our side is actually running japan policy. 755 00:47:43,800 --> 00:47:45,799 Speaker 4: But they have a contribution to make. We have to 756 00:47:45,840 --> 00:47:49,000 Speaker 4: ask them, and if we do, good things will happen. 757 00:47:49,040 --> 00:47:52,280 Speaker 4: If we don't, well, it's going to leave a resentment actually, 758 00:47:52,320 --> 00:47:55,000 Speaker 4: and that the relationship will not be as solid as 759 00:47:55,000 --> 00:47:55,960 Speaker 4: it otherwise would be. 760 00:47:56,360 --> 00:47:59,239 Speaker 1: Well, and that's especially true because the Japanese are of 761 00:47:59,239 --> 00:48:01,960 Speaker 1: course made your consumer of what comes out of the 762 00:48:02,000 --> 00:48:04,680 Speaker 1: straight up Ford mos grandonism. We have to let you go. 763 00:48:04,760 --> 00:48:06,520 Speaker 1: Thank you so much for your time. God bless you, 764 00:48:06,600 --> 00:48:07,960 Speaker 1: my friend. Keep up with the great work and come 765 00:48:08,000 --> 00:48:09,759 Speaker 1: back to us very soon, if you would, If the 766 00:48:09,800 --> 00:48:11,319 Speaker 1: rest of you do the same next time. Until then, 767 00:48:11,400 --> 00:48:12,280 Speaker 1: go forth and multiply