WEBVTT - Roberta Elder, Atlanta’s Rare Black Female Serial Killer 0:00:00.160 --> 0:00:03.800 Welcome to Criminalia, a production of Shonda Land Audio in 0:00:03.880 --> 0:00:12.000 partnership with I Heart Radio. Hello, and welcome to Criminalia, 0:00:12.320 --> 0:00:15.600 where this season we're exploring the lives and motivations of 0:00:15.640 --> 0:00:19.479 some of the most notorious lady poisoners in history. I'm 0:00:19.560 --> 0:00:22.960 Riachru Marquis and I'm Holly Fry And in today's episode, 0:00:22.960 --> 0:00:24.880 we're going to look at the life of Roberta Elder, 0:00:25.200 --> 0:00:27.680 a woman from Georgia who was accused of poisoning more 0:00:27.720 --> 0:00:30.840 than a dozen people over the course of about fourteen years, 0:00:31.520 --> 0:00:34.839 mainly so she could profit from being the sold beneficiary 0:00:34.920 --> 0:00:48.240 of each victim's insurance payout. What little dang time Yeah, 0:00:49.080 --> 0:00:55.600 time in nineties. The second Roberta is an interesting woman 0:00:55.640 --> 0:00:59.200 to talk about. We don't actually know very much at 0:00:59.240 --> 0:01:02.400 all about her life was like before she was accused 0:01:02.440 --> 0:01:06.520 of poisoning people with everyone's favorite poison, arsenic. I know 0:01:06.600 --> 0:01:13.880 it's mine, it goes in everything. We don't actually even 0:01:13.920 --> 0:01:17.240 know what year she was born, although based on reports 0:01:17.240 --> 0:01:21.400 from her trial, she was probably born between about nineteen 0:01:21.400 --> 0:01:25.080 o seven and nineteen o nine. We do know that 0:01:25.120 --> 0:01:28.200 she lived in Atlanta, but we don't know for sure 0:01:28.240 --> 0:01:30.880 if she was native to the city. We can't even 0:01:30.920 --> 0:01:33.640 be sure what years she died in or if she 0:01:33.760 --> 0:01:37.520 died in prison, but we know or certain that Roberta 0:01:37.800 --> 0:01:42.000 was accused of killing several people, all of whom were 0:01:42.000 --> 0:01:45.720 her relatives, so the killings likely started as early as 0:01:45.800 --> 0:01:50.400 ninety eight. No one suspected anything of Roberta until Reverend 0:01:50.480 --> 0:01:55.360 William Elder, who was the Baptist minister Andrewberta's husband, died 0:01:55.440 --> 0:01:57.960 after eating a snack of bananas and cheese in his 0:01:58.160 --> 0:02:03.080 lunch in nineteen fifty two. I have so many questions 0:02:03.120 --> 0:02:10.880 about that combination of food, and some things made complete sense. 0:02:10.880 --> 0:02:14.160 I was like, oh, banana bread with cream cheese on 0:02:14.240 --> 0:02:17.080 it completely makes sense. And then there was some sort 0:02:17.080 --> 0:02:21.280 of deep fried stuffed banana with mascapona cheese in it, 0:02:21.360 --> 0:02:23.520 and I was like, well, that makes sense too. But 0:02:23.560 --> 0:02:26.560 then there was like banana and Swiss, which I was like, 0:02:27.280 --> 0:02:33.760 that sounds like my breath would never recover from that. Ever. See, 0:02:33.800 --> 0:02:36.160 there's part of me that wants to try these things. 0:02:36.440 --> 0:02:39.359 Of course, of course, because maybe we're missing out on 0:02:39.400 --> 0:02:43.840 a culinary delight. It's possible. I have links. I'll share them. 0:02:43.880 --> 0:02:46.960 Great to go back to William and Roberta. As far 0:02:47.000 --> 0:02:49.679 as we can tell, they did not have a bad marriage. 0:02:50.200 --> 0:02:52.520 They were raising their children and what we would now 0:02:52.600 --> 0:02:55.000 kind of consider a Brady Bunch style, so it was 0:02:55.040 --> 0:02:57.560 a blended home. They each brought children into the marriage 0:02:58.000 --> 0:02:59.720 and they were only married for a little more than 0:02:59.760 --> 0:03:04.160 two years when William died. And just about one year 0:03:04.240 --> 0:03:08.640 into their marriage, tragedies struck when Williams daughter's Annie Pearl 0:03:08.880 --> 0:03:14.079 and Fannie May this was roberta stepdaughters, became unexpectedly ill 0:03:14.160 --> 0:03:16.679 and they both died just a few months apart. When 0:03:16.720 --> 0:03:21.760 William also became unexpectedly ill, Roberta cared for her sick husband, 0:03:21.960 --> 0:03:24.520 really not something that you would consider out of ordinary 0:03:24.560 --> 0:03:27.520 for a spouse to do. She called on the family 0:03:27.600 --> 0:03:31.160 doctor who attended to William and gave him medication, and 0:03:31.200 --> 0:03:33.320 then the doctor was called back to the house when 0:03:33.320 --> 0:03:36.920 William's condition worsened, but he ended up tending to his 0:03:36.960 --> 0:03:40.520 patient on what would become his deathbed. So there was nothing, 0:03:40.800 --> 0:03:46.720 at least superficially that was suspicious about William's death, that is, 0:03:47.640 --> 0:03:51.240 until the attending position had a Eureka moment he noticed 0:03:51.440 --> 0:03:57.360 sores and ruddy spots on William's body, which you know, 0:03:58.200 --> 0:04:00.840 a little bit strange. The cause the death he had 0:04:00.920 --> 0:04:05.240 suspected was pneumonia, but with these thoughts, it was probably 0:04:05.280 --> 0:04:10.920 not what he originally believed it to be. So how 0:04:10.960 --> 0:04:15.320 could anyone confuse the symptoms of arsenic poisoning with something 0:04:15.360 --> 0:04:19.560 like pneumonia, you might be wondering, Well, this actually does 0:04:19.680 --> 0:04:22.000 make some sense once you get to know a little 0:04:22.000 --> 0:04:26.120 bit more about arsenic. We've talked throughout this show about 0:04:26.279 --> 0:04:28.800 some of the strange side effects. But one of the 0:04:28.880 --> 0:04:31.800 reasons that arsenic has been such a popular method of 0:04:31.800 --> 0:04:35.120 poisoning throughout the centuries is that it really is a 0:04:35.120 --> 0:04:38.840 great mimic. So not only can arsenic be delivered in 0:04:38.880 --> 0:04:41.880 such a way that it's pretty much impossible to place 0:04:41.920 --> 0:04:45.719 a perpetrator at the crime scene, it's classic symptoms can 0:04:45.839 --> 0:04:50.640 range from everything like abdominal pain and vomiting to really 0:04:50.720 --> 0:04:55.200 highly unpleasant burning sensation throughout the body, which doesn't to 0:04:55.279 --> 0:04:59.200 me sound like pneumonia. I've had pneumonia, I didn't have that, Yeah, 0:04:59.440 --> 0:05:02.600 And depend ending how much you ingest and over how 0:05:02.640 --> 0:05:06.239 long a period of time, it can also cause organ damage, 0:05:06.279 --> 0:05:09.800 which is why it's easily overlooked and instead diagnosed as 0:05:09.880 --> 0:05:13.600 kidney failure or heart failure, or a long infection like 0:05:13.640 --> 0:05:19.040 bronchitis or pneumonia. Exposure to arsenic can affect almost all 0:05:19.480 --> 0:05:22.880 systems of your body, and the longer you're exposed to it, 0:05:23.160 --> 0:05:27.160 the worst things can become for you. Signs of long 0:05:27.279 --> 0:05:30.400 term exposure can also sometimes show up on your skin, 0:05:30.760 --> 0:05:34.240 like we heard from Williams symptoms, and that can look 0:05:34.320 --> 0:05:37.640 like everything from just a you know, a flushing or 0:05:37.640 --> 0:05:41.120 a blushing, to something like a hyperpigmentation, which means your 0:05:41.200 --> 0:05:45.880 skin darkens. Sometimes you might get something called our cynical 0:05:46.200 --> 0:05:49.279 hyper keratosis, which is a condition for your skin on 0:05:49.320 --> 0:05:57.479 the palms and your souls begin to thicken. And because 0:05:57.520 --> 0:06:01.320 of the condition of William's skin and the concern about 0:06:01.360 --> 0:06:04.600 the number of recent deaths in the elder home, remember 0:06:04.640 --> 0:06:07.120 Annie Pearl and Fannie May had died just about a 0:06:07.200 --> 0:06:11.480 year prior, the family doctor notified the coroner and he 0:06:11.520 --> 0:06:15.400 recommended a post mortem examination be performed on William's body, 0:06:15.560 --> 0:06:18.320 and I thought this is really interesting of him. He 0:06:18.480 --> 0:06:21.599 also went on to describe Roberta when he was in 0:06:21.640 --> 0:06:25.080 the house. So he said that Roberta was a careful 0:06:25.200 --> 0:06:31.520 talking quote unquote and also quote unquote emotionless woman. When 0:06:31.520 --> 0:06:36.039 he was there, he suspected arsenic poisoning. He suspected she 0:06:36.200 --> 0:06:39.240 was guilty of doing it, and he suggested that an 0:06:39.320 --> 0:06:45.039 investigation into Roberta be opened. Atlanta police eventually claimed that 0:06:45.080 --> 0:06:49.920 between nineteen thirty eight and nineteen fifty two, numerous individuals 0:06:49.960 --> 0:06:54.560 died under suspicious circumstances while they lived in Roberta's household. 0:06:55.400 --> 0:06:58.240 It fell to Detective J. E. Helms to compile a 0:06:58.279 --> 0:07:01.160 list of individuals who had died while living with Roberta, 0:07:01.600 --> 0:07:05.560 including family in Watkinsville, Georgia, where her brother lived, and 0:07:05.680 --> 0:07:09.640 in her former homes in Atlanta's northeast and northwest neighborhoods. 0:07:10.040 --> 0:07:12.000 So we're going to take a quick break for a 0:07:12.040 --> 0:07:14.640 word from our sponsor. But when we come back, we're 0:07:14.680 --> 0:07:19.920 going to talk about the very very very long list 0:07:20.080 --> 0:07:36.280 of Roberta's victims. Very very very you drove me out 0:07:36.320 --> 0:07:42.480 of Mama, Welcome back to Criminalia. Now we're gonna start 0:07:42.480 --> 0:07:46.920 talking about how although many of Roberta's relatives died allegedly 0:07:46.920 --> 0:07:50.520 of pneumonia, they probably actually did not in fact I 0:07:50.640 --> 0:07:55.520 of that. So, during their investigation, Roberta was accused of 0:07:55.560 --> 0:07:58.680 poisoning more than a dozen relatives, as we mentioned earlier, 0:07:58.720 --> 0:08:02.520 and that included every went from husbands, which were three 0:08:02.640 --> 0:08:06.080 which we're county common law husbands, which was common at 0:08:06.080 --> 0:08:10.360 the time, uh, four of her children, three stepchildren, as 0:08:10.360 --> 0:08:15.600 well as her mother, a grandchild, a cousin, and maybe 0:08:16.000 --> 0:08:19.680 maybe we're not on this one, the former wife of 0:08:19.680 --> 0:08:26.320 her recently deceased husband, William. So pull up a seat, 0:08:26.360 --> 0:08:29.720 because the list of suspected victims compiled by Detective Helms is, 0:08:30.200 --> 0:08:33.120 as Maria suggested before the break, a lengthy one. I 0:08:33.120 --> 0:08:37.800 believe it's that very, very very Yes, in case you 0:08:37.840 --> 0:08:42.320 weren't clear, Yeah, this is gonna take a minute. So 0:08:42.640 --> 0:08:46.840 it's believed Roberta's first victim was John Woodard, who was 0:08:46.920 --> 0:08:48.880 thirty six years old when he died in December of 0:08:50.160 --> 0:08:52.600 and John is believed to have been Roberta's common law 0:08:52.679 --> 0:08:56.480 husband James Thurmond, whose name may have been James, but 0:08:56.520 --> 0:08:59.480 it also may have been Willie. Records are unclear. Was 0:08:59.600 --> 0:09:03.040 roberta son from either her first or second marriage. He 0:09:03.120 --> 0:09:05.760 died in June of nineteen thirty nine, when he was 0:09:05.800 --> 0:09:08.840 just thirteen years old. His cause of death was recorded 0:09:08.880 --> 0:09:13.400 as malnutrition and respiratory trouble. Willie May and Lily Lou 0:09:13.520 --> 0:09:16.480 Thurmond were two of Roberta's daughters from either her first 0:09:16.600 --> 0:09:21.000 or her second marriage, not exactly sure. Willie May died 0:09:21.000 --> 0:09:23.600 when she was just two weeks old. Lily Lou, whose 0:09:23.679 --> 0:09:27.240 name may have actually been Mizzy May, it's a little unclear, 0:09:27.800 --> 0:09:30.000 was just one week old when she died. Jimmy Lee 0:09:30.040 --> 0:09:33.120 Crane Hunter, Roberta's grandson, was just two years old when 0:09:33.120 --> 0:09:35.640 he died in December of nineteen forty one. And then 0:09:35.679 --> 0:09:38.880 there was Gloria Evans, who was Roberta's cousin, and she 0:09:39.000 --> 0:09:42.120 was three years old when she died from suspected food poisoning, 0:09:42.160 --> 0:09:45.480 and that happened the day after Christmas in nineteen James 0:09:45.559 --> 0:09:49.559 Garfield Crane was another of her suspected victims, also from 0:09:49.600 --> 0:09:54.199 food poisoning. Records about who James exactly was, though, are 0:09:54.240 --> 0:09:57.520 a bit of a maze. Some list James as having 0:09:57.559 --> 0:10:01.160 died in December of nineteen forty three, the age of one. 0:10:01.440 --> 0:10:04.079 You could read a different set of historical accounts, however, 0:10:04.120 --> 0:10:07.040 and James Garfield Crane is listed as one of Roberta's 0:10:07.120 --> 0:10:09.800 husbands who was forty five when he died in nineteen 0:10:09.840 --> 0:10:12.920 forty seven. It could also be that these were in 0:10:13.000 --> 0:10:16.560 fact two different individuals, a father and son, so James 0:10:16.600 --> 0:10:20.800 Senior and James Jr. That seems entirely plausible, but because 0:10:20.880 --> 0:10:24.560 the two descriptions have been confused and interchanged in various 0:10:24.559 --> 0:10:27.800 accounts over the years, we just don't really know exactly 0:10:28.080 --> 0:10:30.600 what the reality was there. We just know that someone died. 0:10:31.000 --> 0:10:35.280 Roberta's mother, Kelly sometimes Kelly is spelled c O L 0:10:35.559 --> 0:10:40.120 L I E like Collie, died in nineteen Nora Scott 0:10:40.120 --> 0:10:42.480 Harris is the only person on this list who was 0:10:42.480 --> 0:10:45.920 actually a close family friend instead of a relative, and 0:10:45.960 --> 0:10:48.400 Nora was ninety three when she died in December of 0:10:48.480 --> 0:10:52.200 nineteen fifty one, and Roberta was the sole beneficiary of 0:10:52.200 --> 0:10:55.319 her insurance plan. That had also been the case with 0:10:55.360 --> 0:10:58.520 each of her relatives who had died, And that takes 0:10:58.559 --> 0:11:02.160 us to Fannie May and Annie Pearl Elder, who were 0:11:02.160 --> 0:11:06.160 William's children from a previous marriage. Both died in the 0:11:06.160 --> 0:11:10.240 early nineteen fifties, likely nineteen fifty or and or ninety one. 0:11:10.280 --> 0:11:13.600 It's a little unclear, but they died close together, and 0:11:13.600 --> 0:11:17.840 the cause their death, both girls was reported to be 0:11:18.360 --> 0:11:22.400 complications of pneumonia. Fannie May was fifteen and Annie Pearl 0:11:22.520 --> 0:11:25.000 was nine. And then, of course there is the Reverend 0:11:25.040 --> 0:11:28.200 William Elder, Roberta's third husband, who died in August of 0:11:28.280 --> 0:11:36.000 nineteen fifty two. So the cause of death for almost 0:11:36.160 --> 0:11:42.160 everyone on this list had been recorded as pneumonia, duree mia, 0:11:42.320 --> 0:11:46.199 which is a form of kidney disease, or just generic 0:11:46.720 --> 0:11:50.680 food poisoning. In response to the detective's list, the Fulton 0:11:50.720 --> 0:11:52.840 County coroner, who at the time was a man named 0:11:52.960 --> 0:11:56.839 Ed Almond, stated, and we are quoting him, this is 0:11:56.880 --> 0:11:59.840 an unheard of thing. Why this reads like something out 0:11:59.880 --> 0:12:04.640 of storybook, Keppa, It was not a story book. The coroner, 0:12:04.800 --> 0:12:09.000 who examined the dasth certificates of each victim, concluded that 0:12:09.240 --> 0:12:12.200 all of the listed causes of death in each case, 0:12:12.640 --> 0:12:18.880 including pneumonia and urmia, could actually be presentations of arsenic poisoning, 0:12:19.080 --> 0:12:23.920 probably long term, and he was right on the money. 0:12:24.120 --> 0:12:28.040 Postmortem tests on the Reverence body alone found enough arsenic 0:12:28.120 --> 0:12:31.880 to kill three men, and when Annie Pearl and Fannie 0:12:31.920 --> 0:12:35.720 Maze bodies were exhumed and examined, arsenic was found in 0:12:35.800 --> 0:12:39.360 both their skin and their hair. So, with his testing complete, 0:12:39.920 --> 0:12:43.560 the medical examiner now believed Roberta was poisoning her victims 0:12:43.600 --> 0:12:48.120 by seasoning their food with arsenic powder. Now, if any 0:12:48.160 --> 0:12:51.480 of you are Agatha Christie detective novel fans, you might 0:12:51.559 --> 0:12:54.200 think that she'd probably noticed that your food had been 0:12:54.240 --> 0:12:57.800 tainted because she writes that arsenic has a sweet flavor. 0:12:58.520 --> 0:13:03.160 But that, like her novel, is pure fiction. What we 0:13:03.240 --> 0:13:06.400 know from experts today is that arsenic actually has no 0:13:06.480 --> 0:13:09.599 taste at all, and that's what makes it so perfect 0:13:09.720 --> 0:13:13.000 for anyone or a homemaker like Roberta to sprinkle it 0:13:13.040 --> 0:13:15.520 into the foods and drinks that she serves to her family. 0:13:16.520 --> 0:13:19.040 Enough about it, I guess that, Christie Maria, we're getting 0:13:19.040 --> 0:13:23.360 back to reality and the story of Roberta's history. And 0:13:23.440 --> 0:13:27.720 as suspicions about Roberta continued to grow, other lucky to 0:13:27.760 --> 0:13:31.080 be alive family members who had previously fallen ill with 0:13:31.120 --> 0:13:34.800 what they believed to be food poisoning flu or pneumonia 0:13:34.960 --> 0:13:38.720 after spending time in Roberta's home began to come forward 0:13:38.800 --> 0:13:42.280 to question her innocence. And they probably think they're lucky 0:13:42.280 --> 0:13:44.920 stars a little bit too. Yeah, No, kidding right. So 0:13:45.000 --> 0:13:49.160 during the investigation against her, insurance records revealed that Roberta 0:13:49.200 --> 0:13:52.640 had collected insurance benefits ranging from fifty dollars all the 0:13:52.679 --> 0:13:55.559 way up to three thousand dollars during this period of time. 0:13:55.760 --> 0:13:59.200 Most of the payouts were between fifty dollars to five 0:13:59.559 --> 0:14:02.560 dollars be fifty dollars to three dars depending on which 0:14:02.559 --> 0:14:05.000 source you read on at least a dozen relatives, and 0:14:05.160 --> 0:14:08.199 it dated all the way back to nineteen thirty eight. 0:14:08.920 --> 0:14:11.680 Most of the deaths occurred within a year or just 0:14:12.360 --> 0:14:15.640 slightly over a year after the insurance plan on the 0:14:15.720 --> 0:14:19.240 victim was opened, and Roberta, you can see what's coming here, 0:14:19.400 --> 0:14:24.360 was always the soul beneficiary on each plan. On September 0:14:25.040 --> 0:14:28.440 ninety two, roberto was arrested as a suspect in the 0:14:28.480 --> 0:14:31.320 death of her husband, William Elder. When we come back, 0:14:31.400 --> 0:14:34.320 we're going to talk about the suspicious powder Roberta was 0:14:34.320 --> 0:14:46.880 seen taking from her brother's farm. Welcome back to Criminalia. 0:14:47.480 --> 0:14:51.080 We are talking about how Roberta Elder may have concealed 0:14:51.160 --> 0:14:57.040 poisoning her relatives with arsenic Since so, one of the 0:14:57.080 --> 0:15:02.000 most interesting pieces of Roberta's case is that Atlanta detectives 0:15:02.040 --> 0:15:05.560 were never able to figure out where she acquired the 0:15:05.760 --> 0:15:09.600 arsenic she was accused of using in these poisonings. Witnesses 0:15:09.680 --> 0:15:13.080 came forward offering stories that day saw her with a 0:15:13.160 --> 0:15:16.000 new stash of powder every time she visited her brother's 0:15:16.080 --> 0:15:20.120 farm near Watkinsville, which is roughly seventy miles outside of Atlanta. 0:15:20.560 --> 0:15:24.160 Her surviving children agreed do they believed she brought powder 0:15:24.200 --> 0:15:28.640 back from that farm. Roberta, defending herself as one naturally would, 0:15:28.800 --> 0:15:31.720 insisted that the powder she kept on hand was just 0:15:31.960 --> 0:15:36.320 used to and we quote her kill plant insects, and 0:15:36.400 --> 0:15:39.000 that sounds pretty straightforward actually, like we've all had to 0:15:39.040 --> 0:15:42.760 deal with things like aphids in our garden, right, died 0:15:42.760 --> 0:15:46.120 tenacious earth works perfectly right, And maybe she was using 0:15:46.160 --> 0:15:50.120 it for this purpose because until the nineteen fifties, most 0:15:50.240 --> 0:15:53.120 pesticides on the market were arsenic base. That was like 0:15:53.160 --> 0:15:56.640 the dominant ingredients and most in most of those and 0:15:56.760 --> 0:15:59.480 rodents as well, as we've talked about many times before, 0:16:00.160 --> 0:16:04.240 so most housewives had it on hand. Roberta's alibi was 0:16:04.280 --> 0:16:06.600 that it was only to kill ants, uh, and that 0:16:06.840 --> 0:16:10.760 probably wouldn't have been suspicious at all. Had her relatives 0:16:10.800 --> 0:16:14.000 not also been dying at an alarming rate. But even 0:16:14.080 --> 0:16:18.560 so this was all circumstantial evidence. There were no eyewitnesses. 0:16:19.240 --> 0:16:24.400 But there's also this interesting matter of Roberta and her 0:16:24.440 --> 0:16:28.000 bottle of milk of magnesia. This is perhaps one of 0:16:28.000 --> 0:16:31.800 the most strange and important pieces of the poisoning puzzle 0:16:32.200 --> 0:16:34.239 if you don't know what it is. Milk of magnesia 0:16:34.600 --> 0:16:38.120 was and actually still is a really commonly used over 0:16:38.160 --> 0:16:42.120 the counter product to treat heartburn and constipation. It wouldn't 0:16:42.120 --> 0:16:44.200 have been unusual to have a bottle or two in 0:16:44.200 --> 0:16:46.640 a medazine cabinet in homes across the US in the 0:16:46.720 --> 0:16:50.960 nineteen forties and fifties or today, right, and Roberta, who 0:16:51.000 --> 0:16:54.760 cared for her sick husband's children and other relatives, was 0:16:54.880 --> 0:16:57.400 known to dose out milk of magnesia to help with 0:16:57.440 --> 0:17:01.760 her loved ones gastro intestinal issues. She insisted that she 0:17:01.840 --> 0:17:04.959 did not place any of the we quote pink stuff 0:17:05.000 --> 0:17:07.960 she used to kill insects into her bottle of milk 0:17:08.000 --> 0:17:11.760 of magnesia, and she insisted that she definitely did not 0:17:11.920 --> 0:17:15.840 give any such thing to her husband William. But the detectives, 0:17:16.040 --> 0:17:20.200 no matter how hard they tried, could not produce even 0:17:20.240 --> 0:17:23.720 a single witness who actually ever saw Roberta mix arsenic 0:17:23.920 --> 0:17:27.760 powder or pink powder, or any powder for that matter, 0:17:28.000 --> 0:17:32.840 into milk of magnesia or frankly, into anything else. Yet 0:17:33.080 --> 0:17:37.080 still without any direct evidence, everything we've talked about has 0:17:37.119 --> 0:17:42.040 been circumstantial, the case still moved forward. The state tried 0:17:42.160 --> 0:17:46.960 Roberta on one of three murder indictments. Yes, there were 0:17:46.960 --> 0:17:49.960 about a dozen potential victims that we read earlier, but 0:17:50.920 --> 0:17:53.359 the three that they went after her for were her 0:17:53.440 --> 0:17:57.840 husband William and her two stepdaughters, Fannie May and Annie Pearl. 0:17:59.240 --> 0:18:03.560 Throughout the instigation and the trial, Roberta maintained her innocence. 0:18:04.040 --> 0:18:07.399 She never once let down her guard or in any 0:18:07.400 --> 0:18:12.080 way faltered. During the schial, one witness testified Roberta had 0:18:12.119 --> 0:18:16.679 taken out a five insurance policy on her husband William 0:18:16.720 --> 0:18:20.359 shortly before the time of his death, and if we pique, 0:18:20.720 --> 0:18:24.440 this is kind of vicariously peeking into her financial affairs. 0:18:24.800 --> 0:18:29.800 Through this witness, Roberta was also apparently short on her accounts. 0:18:31.240 --> 0:18:34.320 Roberta's trial went on for about two years, so from 0:18:34.520 --> 0:18:37.760 nineteen fifty two to nineteen fifty four, and during that 0:18:37.840 --> 0:18:41.199 time the local newspaper described her as quote cool as 0:18:41.240 --> 0:18:46.200 a cucumber. Throughout the proceedings before, during, and after, Roberta 0:18:46.359 --> 0:18:49.960 never confessed to any of the accusations against her. No 0:18:50.000 --> 0:18:53.080 one will ever describe me as cool as if you 0:18:53.240 --> 0:19:05.520 come me either by a grand jury returned a verdict 0:19:05.560 --> 0:19:10.199 against her, and you'll be shocked, shocked to hear that 0:19:10.320 --> 0:19:13.240 she used sound guilty. And what's interesting to keep in 0:19:13.280 --> 0:19:15.840 mind is this was a verdict that was based on, 0:19:16.040 --> 0:19:22.240 as we said earlier, circumstantial evidence alone. Not only were 0:19:22.240 --> 0:19:24.800 there new witnesses, there wasn't even a clue of Howard 0:19:24.840 --> 0:19:28.360 Berta got her quote unquote pink powder, as she called it. 0:19:29.119 --> 0:19:32.080 And speaking of that pink powder, as far as we 0:19:32.119 --> 0:19:35.200 can tell from the court records and media reports, no 0:19:35.400 --> 0:19:38.840 expert was ever called upon to test that powder to 0:19:38.920 --> 0:19:41.280 figure out if it was or was not arsenic, or 0:19:41.359 --> 0:19:44.760 was any other type of poison. Pink powder is even 0:19:44.800 --> 0:19:47.080 often used in cosmetics as a way to create a 0:19:47.160 --> 0:19:50.479 natural look. So this thing that everyone is calling pink powder, 0:19:50.520 --> 0:19:51.960 we don't really know what it was. It could have 0:19:52.040 --> 0:19:53.679 just been like a little a little you know, like 0:19:53.800 --> 0:19:57.800 loose powder makeup. We have no idea whatever she wanted 0:19:57.880 --> 0:20:00.080 to make the ants look beautiful. Well, who does And 0:20:01.440 --> 0:20:03.920 we like to think that they would have done some testing, 0:20:04.520 --> 0:20:06.600 but we cannot show that as fact because there's no 0:20:06.640 --> 0:20:09.280 evidence that that happened. I mean, I'm amazed that they 0:20:09.280 --> 0:20:12.359 wouldn't have, but there is no evidence that they tested 0:20:12.400 --> 0:20:16.720 it at all. Um So, Roberta was then convicted of 0:20:16.840 --> 0:20:20.439 murdering her husband, William and at the age of forty 0:20:20.480 --> 0:20:23.520 five give her take a year, because you know, we've 0:20:23.520 --> 0:20:26.919 talked about that fuzzy record keeping. She was sentenced to 0:20:27.080 --> 0:20:29.800 life in prison. And this is where the facts about 0:20:29.920 --> 0:20:34.760 Roberta Elder, her trial and her sentencing pretty much dry up. 0:20:36.040 --> 0:20:40.320 But that's not really where her impact dries up. Let's 0:20:40.359 --> 0:20:43.760 talk about Roberta, who was a black woman in Georgia 0:20:43.800 --> 0:20:47.560 in the nineteen forties, fared in the local press. If 0:20:47.600 --> 0:20:50.040 you've been listening to this season, you know that we 0:20:50.119 --> 0:20:52.720 sometimes talk about the media and how it can impact 0:20:52.720 --> 0:20:55.680 a trial, or at least how it's coverage can get 0:20:55.680 --> 0:20:58.320 a city all riled up. And it doesn't even matter 0:20:58.320 --> 0:21:01.000 what country we've talked about Italy, it's the United States. 0:21:01.000 --> 0:21:04.320 People take sides, people get really interested in the story, 0:21:04.920 --> 0:21:09.560 and often a story of a female accused will saturate 0:21:09.720 --> 0:21:13.320 media reports and reporters follow the story as it infolds, 0:21:13.480 --> 0:21:17.960 detail by detail. The women on trial often becomes sensationalized, 0:21:18.040 --> 0:21:20.280 and it turns them into a bit of a celebrity. 0:21:21.080 --> 0:21:24.440 Often it's not because of anything more than the fact 0:21:24.480 --> 0:21:28.800 that they were women, the fairer sex, which I always 0:21:28.840 --> 0:21:34.200 put in quotes because I actually hate that term. Women 0:21:34.240 --> 0:21:36.520 are supposed to care for the home, not kill the 0:21:36.560 --> 0:21:41.320 people in It is what the media gets. But perhaps surprisingly, 0:21:41.560 --> 0:21:45.400 Roberta's killing spree did not actually draw much attention from 0:21:45.400 --> 0:21:48.760 the mainstream press at all, which at this time in 0:21:48.880 --> 0:21:53.800 the United States meant the mainstream white newspapers across the nation. 0:21:53.960 --> 0:21:55.959 That's a really good point. So let's look at the 0:21:56.000 --> 0:22:00.439 time and place Roberta lived. In The nineteen thirties en 0:22:00.440 --> 0:22:04.879 forties were still the time when terror mentionings claimed the 0:22:04.960 --> 0:22:10.200 lives that black American men, women, and children across the country, 0:22:10.520 --> 0:22:15.560 not just in Georgia. Residential segregation was increasing, and most 0:22:15.720 --> 0:22:18.959 white newspapers didn't have much of an interest in following 0:22:18.960 --> 0:22:21.879 a story of a poor black woman who murdered other 0:22:22.000 --> 0:22:25.720 black people. But it was the woman, not her crimes 0:22:25.720 --> 0:22:28.560 that they ignored. So let's talk about a woman for 0:22:28.600 --> 0:22:34.240 a moment named Nanny Doss. Nanny Dosh was a white 0:22:34.280 --> 0:22:37.360 woman who, at almost the very same time as Roberta, 0:22:37.880 --> 0:22:40.920 was also busy poisoning a dozen of her own relatives. 0:22:41.560 --> 0:22:44.960 Nanny was responsible for as many as eleven poisoning deaths 0:22:45.040 --> 0:22:48.440 and perhaps more during the same time span that Roberta 0:22:48.600 --> 0:22:51.639 was going about her killings. Like Roberta, Nanny was a 0:22:51.680 --> 0:22:54.840 poisoner who killed her husband's She killed four of her 0:22:54.880 --> 0:23:00.320 five husbands and possibly another dozen or so relatives. Very 0:23:00.359 --> 0:23:03.760 similar to Roberta, and also like Roberta, she killed with 0:23:03.960 --> 0:23:07.879 arsenic and she was motivated to collect insurance money. But 0:23:07.920 --> 0:23:12.879 what Nanny also had was media coverage, particularly white media coverage. 0:23:13.119 --> 0:23:16.439 They referred to her with some very cute names. She 0:23:16.560 --> 0:23:18.919 was called the giggling Granny, by the way, Do you 0:23:18.960 --> 0:23:22.440 know why they called her that? Okay, So I looked 0:23:22.440 --> 0:23:23.639 it up and it took me a little bit to 0:23:23.640 --> 0:23:26.119 find it. But every time they would ask her about 0:23:26.160 --> 0:23:29.480 someone that she had murdered, she would giggle. She wouldn't reply, 0:23:29.800 --> 0:23:37.280 she would just laugh. Oh, Nanny, that's not good for you. Yeah, 0:23:37.320 --> 0:23:42.560 that's you haven't had media training. So in addition to 0:23:42.640 --> 0:23:45.960 the Giggling Granny. She was also called the Lonely Hearts Killer, 0:23:46.440 --> 0:23:49.760 the Black Widow, and Lady blue Beard. She was also 0:23:49.840 --> 0:23:53.720 called a self made widow in the white press. Today, 0:23:53.760 --> 0:23:57.480 more than seventy years after Na's crimes, you can still 0:23:57.600 --> 0:24:00.359 find out a ton of information about her if you 0:24:00.440 --> 0:24:03.320 go on YouTube. Her name also appears in the top 0:24:03.359 --> 0:24:09.840 ten most notable female serial killers. Contrast the ready availability 0:24:09.960 --> 0:24:12.679 of information on Nanny Doss with the fact that we 0:24:12.760 --> 0:24:17.639 couldn't find reliable information about Roberta's date of birth or 0:24:17.680 --> 0:24:20.480 her date or manner of death, and if you think 0:24:20.520 --> 0:24:24.240 back to the detective's list, we couldn't reliably identify even 0:24:24.280 --> 0:24:28.000 the names of all of her possible victims. Some experts 0:24:28.080 --> 0:24:31.159 argue that the race and gender of a killer and 0:24:31.280 --> 0:24:35.240 a victim affects not only whether that killer or victim 0:24:35.320 --> 0:24:40.000 receives any attention, but also how much attention the accused 0:24:40.160 --> 0:24:44.520 receives from the press and the public. So unbalanced reporting 0:24:44.560 --> 0:24:47.600 by the news media at this time can and does 0:24:48.000 --> 0:24:53.320 send a message that white killers and white victims, particularly 0:24:53.359 --> 0:24:57.320 if they are white females, hold more currency and are 0:24:57.400 --> 0:25:02.040 given more consideration than those who are she minorities. But 0:25:02.240 --> 0:25:06.440 the black press, especially the Pittsburgh Courier and the Chicago Defender, 0:25:07.080 --> 0:25:10.720 did report on both Roberta's trial and on her victims. 0:25:11.320 --> 0:25:14.119 They were not necessarily kind, after all, she was on 0:25:14.200 --> 0:25:17.639 trial for murder, but they did follow her story, and 0:25:17.680 --> 0:25:19.800 it was in the black press that she got the 0:25:19.880 --> 0:25:22.680 nickname Mrs blue Beard. Say, you may have heard that 0:25:22.760 --> 0:25:26.480 nickname before blue Beard in regard to killers, and there's 0:25:26.560 --> 0:25:30.280 actually a kind of long standing story behind it. But 0:25:30.400 --> 0:25:34.360 don't confuse blue Beard with black Beard, who was a pirate. 0:25:35.320 --> 0:25:38.800 Blue beards story started as a French folk tale, first 0:25:38.840 --> 0:25:42.840 published as a mother ago as about the sixteen hundreds 0:25:42.960 --> 0:25:46.040 or so, and it goes at a very very very 0:25:46.119 --> 0:25:50.760 high level, like this, a wealthy man Mary's and then 0:25:50.840 --> 0:25:53.639 kills his wife, and then does it again and again 0:25:53.680 --> 0:25:57.199 and again. You can repeat that seven or seventy seven times, 0:25:57.240 --> 0:26:00.080 depending on the telling of the story, and wild a 0:26:00.280 --> 0:26:03.600 moral of this story is debatable depending on the criticism 0:26:03.640 --> 0:26:07.000 you read. The term blue Beard has ever since been 0:26:07.119 --> 0:26:10.840