1 00:00:02,920 --> 00:00:06,560 Speaker 1: You're listening to Law and Order Criminal Justice System, a 2 00:00:06,600 --> 00:00:10,000 Speaker 1: production of Wolf Entertainment and iHeart podcasts. 3 00:00:13,600 --> 00:00:17,720 Speaker 2: In the criminal justice System, landmark trials transcend the courtroom 4 00:00:17,840 --> 00:00:20,560 Speaker 2: to reshape the law. The brave men and women who 5 00:00:20,600 --> 00:00:23,840 Speaker 2: investigate and prosecute these cases are part of a select 6 00:00:23,840 --> 00:00:27,640 Speaker 2: group that is defined American history. These are their stories. 7 00:00:32,360 --> 00:00:36,640 Speaker 2: May fifth, nineteen eighty one, benson Hurst, Brooklyn. 8 00:00:38,280 --> 00:00:42,239 Speaker 1: A group of men waited inside an empty nightclub. The 9 00:00:42,400 --> 00:00:46,040 Speaker 1: nineteen seventy nine murder of Carmi Galanti two years before 10 00:00:46,400 --> 00:00:49,080 Speaker 1: had resulted in a power struggle at the top of 11 00:00:49,120 --> 00:00:52,360 Speaker 1: the Banano crime family, and these men were here to 12 00:00:52,479 --> 00:00:55,920 Speaker 1: sort it out. The man calling the shots was thirty 13 00:00:55,960 --> 00:01:00,520 Speaker 1: eight year old Joe Messino, truck hijacker, ruthless killer, and 14 00:01:00,680 --> 00:01:06,160 Speaker 1: loyal ally of Banano boss Rusty Rostelli. Messino was also 15 00:01:06,360 --> 00:01:10,600 Speaker 1: one of the men responsible for Carmine Galanti's murder. On 16 00:01:10,760 --> 00:01:15,520 Speaker 1: the agenda for this so called administration meeting peace talks 17 00:01:15,560 --> 00:01:19,080 Speaker 1: with three ambitious captains buying for control of the family 18 00:01:19,200 --> 00:01:23,400 Speaker 1: in the wake of Galante's death. With one unassuming soldier 19 00:01:23,440 --> 00:01:28,119 Speaker 1: in tow, the three capos entered the club unarmed, expecting 20 00:01:28,200 --> 00:01:34,240 Speaker 1: a peaceful negotiation. As they neared, one of Messino's men 21 00:01:34,360 --> 00:01:38,560 Speaker 1: discreetly ran a hand through his hair. It was a signal. 22 00:01:39,440 --> 00:01:42,840 Speaker 1: Four masked gunmen burst out of a closet, armed with 23 00:01:42,920 --> 00:01:50,120 Speaker 1: pistols and a sawd off shotgun. The three capos they 24 00:01:50,240 --> 00:01:54,000 Speaker 1: didn't stand a chance. Power was once again restored to 25 00:01:54,080 --> 00:01:58,600 Speaker 1: Rusty Rostelli, while Joe Messino had amassed more influence than 26 00:01:58,640 --> 00:02:02,440 Speaker 1: ever before and he was far from finished. 27 00:02:13,880 --> 00:02:16,200 Speaker 3: You're not with the mob because you want to be. 28 00:02:16,440 --> 00:02:19,320 Speaker 3: It's the gangster that decides whether you're his associated on. 29 00:02:19,720 --> 00:02:23,280 Speaker 1: If you like your life, you will vote to acquit. 30 00:02:23,800 --> 00:02:27,760 Speaker 1: I'm Anethega Nicolazzi. My father should have been a dead man. 31 00:02:28,639 --> 00:02:33,000 Speaker 1: From Wolf Entertainment and iHeart Podcasts. This is Law and 32 00:02:33,240 --> 00:02:43,360 Speaker 1: Order Criminal Justice System. In our last episode, we brought 33 00:02:43,360 --> 00:02:46,760 Speaker 1: you the story of Carmen Gallanti, a one time hitman 34 00:02:46,840 --> 00:02:50,239 Speaker 1: who rose through the ranks of organized crime to become 35 00:02:50,280 --> 00:02:53,840 Speaker 1: the de facto boss of the Banano crime family. That 36 00:02:54,000 --> 00:02:57,480 Speaker 1: is until he was gunned down outside an Italian restaurant 37 00:02:57,480 --> 00:03:01,280 Speaker 1: in Brooklyn in July of nineteen seventy nine. His murder 38 00:03:01,320 --> 00:03:04,240 Speaker 1: would mark a seminal moment, and not just the history 39 00:03:04,280 --> 00:03:06,560 Speaker 1: of the mob. In New York, but also in law 40 00:03:06,639 --> 00:03:11,800 Speaker 1: enforcements approach to investigating and prosecuting the mafia. For nearly 41 00:03:11,880 --> 00:03:17,040 Speaker 1: a century, the Five Families had used bribery, blackmail, extortion, 42 00:03:17,400 --> 00:03:20,919 Speaker 1: and murder to control the city with little or no 43 00:03:21,080 --> 00:03:24,520 Speaker 1: opposition from law enforcement, and by the end of the 44 00:03:24,600 --> 00:03:28,680 Speaker 1: nineteen seventies their power had reached new heights. But after 45 00:03:28,760 --> 00:03:36,160 Speaker 1: Galante's murder, that was all about to change. Armed with 46 00:03:36,200 --> 00:03:40,200 Speaker 1: what was then cutting edge technology, the FBI knew that 47 00:03:40,240 --> 00:03:43,000 Speaker 1: the best way to crack a coat of silence was 48 00:03:43,040 --> 00:03:47,120 Speaker 1: to infiltrate the very homes and hangouts of mobsters, eavesdropping 49 00:03:47,160 --> 00:03:51,520 Speaker 1: on their conversations. To accomplish this, they would rely on 50 00:03:51,600 --> 00:03:55,120 Speaker 1: an array of hidden bugs and wire taps placed by 51 00:03:55,160 --> 00:03:59,920 Speaker 1: a team of fearless undercover operatives known as black bagging. 52 00:04:01,600 --> 00:04:05,320 Speaker 3: We did have black bags on occasion, but any bag 53 00:04:05,640 --> 00:04:09,040 Speaker 3: would work if you had to slip into some place. 54 00:04:09,880 --> 00:04:14,080 Speaker 3: My name is Joseph Canta Messa. I was a special 55 00:04:14,120 --> 00:04:17,240 Speaker 3: agent with the FBI for twenty two years. I retired 56 00:04:17,279 --> 00:04:18,640 Speaker 3: in nineteen ninety eight. 57 00:04:19,520 --> 00:04:22,640 Speaker 1: Joe was one of the bureau's most successful tech specialists, 58 00:04:22,920 --> 00:04:26,760 Speaker 1: whose work directly led to the incarceration of countless members 59 00:04:26,760 --> 00:04:29,799 Speaker 1: of organized crime, but at the time of the Three 60 00:04:29,880 --> 00:04:33,160 Speaker 1: Kappos murder in nineteen eighty one, Joe was a young 61 00:04:33,320 --> 00:04:37,120 Speaker 1: agent working undercover as a phone repairman in Little Italy, 62 00:04:37,680 --> 00:04:39,080 Speaker 1: known to locals as. 63 00:04:40,000 --> 00:04:45,880 Speaker 3: Joe Aquino a q U, I n complete identity, backstopped 64 00:04:45,920 --> 00:04:52,560 Speaker 3: if necessary, driver's license, vehicle registration, real true address if 65 00:04:52,560 --> 00:04:55,000 Speaker 3: you wanted to check it. Joe was a phone man, 66 00:04:55,320 --> 00:04:57,279 Speaker 3: but I could have been an electrician. I could have 67 00:04:57,320 --> 00:05:02,040 Speaker 3: been a TV repairman. I had different identity for different companies. 68 00:05:02,400 --> 00:05:05,479 Speaker 1: And much like a spy, before even attempting to bug 69 00:05:05,520 --> 00:05:09,520 Speaker 1: his prospective target, Joe took meticulous care in building his 70 00:05:09,600 --> 00:05:14,239 Speaker 1: backstory to establish himself as a believable and familiar member 71 00:05:14,279 --> 00:05:15,040 Speaker 1: of the neighborhood. 72 00:05:16,360 --> 00:05:20,719 Speaker 3: Little Literally, it's a pretty popular, touristy kind of place. 73 00:05:21,440 --> 00:05:24,239 Speaker 3: There are regulars there, and there were a few social 74 00:05:24,320 --> 00:05:28,000 Speaker 3: clubs there, and they pretty much pay attention to what's 75 00:05:28,040 --> 00:05:30,520 Speaker 3: going on unless you're a tourist. 76 00:05:31,160 --> 00:05:34,919 Speaker 1: These social clubs were members only, commonly used as a 77 00:05:34,960 --> 00:05:37,160 Speaker 1: base of operations for crime families. 78 00:05:38,240 --> 00:05:42,719 Speaker 3: For me to be recognized, I would show up on 79 00:05:42,880 --> 00:05:47,720 Speaker 3: a frequent basis in my telephone truck. I would find 80 00:05:47,880 --> 00:05:51,279 Speaker 3: the closest social club, and I would park right in 81 00:05:51,320 --> 00:05:53,640 Speaker 3: front of the door, and I would get out, and 82 00:05:53,720 --> 00:05:56,719 Speaker 3: I would walk the neighborhood, going in and out of 83 00:05:56,839 --> 00:06:01,400 Speaker 3: various front doors. You know, again, I've been ingratiating myself 84 00:06:01,480 --> 00:06:05,800 Speaker 3: to the neighborhood doing favors because back then the New 85 00:06:05,839 --> 00:06:10,400 Speaker 3: York Telephone and the Bell system owned everything. You leased 86 00:06:10,440 --> 00:06:14,479 Speaker 3: everything from the phone company. Here I am the gracious 87 00:06:14,520 --> 00:06:17,839 Speaker 3: guy who will occasionally throw a client the long cord 88 00:06:18,400 --> 00:06:22,640 Speaker 3: or whatever. It took weeks for me to get recognized 89 00:06:22,680 --> 00:06:25,000 Speaker 3: as somebody that belonged in the neighborhood. 90 00:06:28,240 --> 00:06:31,440 Speaker 1: The easiest part about fronting as a telephone repairman is 91 00:06:31,480 --> 00:06:34,919 Speaker 1: that for Joe it wasn't a lie because he actually 92 00:06:34,960 --> 00:06:36,840 Speaker 1: had the same job in high school. 93 00:06:37,600 --> 00:06:41,160 Speaker 3: Well, I was working for New Jersey Bell Telephone as 94 00:06:41,200 --> 00:06:47,160 Speaker 3: a telephone installer repairman. There were only two truly former 95 00:06:47,400 --> 00:06:52,280 Speaker 3: telephone installer repairman as FBI agents in the entire organization, 96 00:06:53,000 --> 00:06:56,000 Speaker 3: so we didn't have to like figure out how to 97 00:06:56,120 --> 00:06:59,280 Speaker 3: look like being a phone man. We were the phone man. 98 00:07:00,400 --> 00:07:02,560 Speaker 1: But given the kind of people he was up against, 99 00:07:02,880 --> 00:07:06,279 Speaker 1: he would also need the ability to improvise and stay 100 00:07:06,320 --> 00:07:10,240 Speaker 1: cool under pressure. One false move could mean his life. 101 00:07:11,320 --> 00:07:13,840 Speaker 3: I don't always know how it's going to play out. 102 00:07:14,200 --> 00:07:17,120 Speaker 3: I know what I want to try and accomplish. You 103 00:07:17,160 --> 00:07:20,040 Speaker 3: had to just kind of like take what came along. 104 00:07:21,120 --> 00:07:23,920 Speaker 1: Like the time Joe was installing a microphone behind a 105 00:07:23,960 --> 00:07:29,000 Speaker 1: telephone wall plate. His target became suspicious and started quizzing him. 106 00:07:29,560 --> 00:07:31,880 Speaker 3: The question came up as to where I was from, 107 00:07:31,920 --> 00:07:34,600 Speaker 3: and I said, East Broncx, you know, right off of 108 00:07:34,640 --> 00:07:38,280 Speaker 3: White Plains Road. And I started talking about, you know, 109 00:07:38,440 --> 00:07:42,080 Speaker 3: my aunt worked in the Vicaro's bakery, my other aunt 110 00:07:42,280 --> 00:07:46,360 Speaker 3: was a ticket taker at the Wakefield. And I'm explaining 111 00:07:46,440 --> 00:07:50,040 Speaker 3: all of this pretty confidently, and then he asked me 112 00:07:50,120 --> 00:07:53,600 Speaker 3: a question or make some statement about something that has 113 00:07:53,720 --> 00:07:55,400 Speaker 3: nothing to do with this neighborhood. 114 00:07:56,360 --> 00:07:59,960 Speaker 1: Luckily, Joe immediately realized he was being tested. 115 00:08:01,160 --> 00:08:04,480 Speaker 3: I get a glance of his wife, who was looking 116 00:08:04,520 --> 00:08:06,800 Speaker 3: at him, and I turned to him and I go, 117 00:08:07,480 --> 00:08:10,360 Speaker 3: what part of the Bronx are you talking about? You know? 118 00:08:10,520 --> 00:08:13,200 Speaker 3: He laughed, and that sort of like cleared it up 119 00:08:13,280 --> 00:08:15,880 Speaker 3: right away. He was throwing me a curve, and fortunately 120 00:08:15,960 --> 00:08:17,040 Speaker 3: I picked up on it. 121 00:08:19,160 --> 00:08:21,960 Speaker 1: Much of Joe's success as an agent was emblematic of 122 00:08:22,000 --> 00:08:25,239 Speaker 1: the changing strategy of the FBI in the fight against 123 00:08:25,280 --> 00:08:28,440 Speaker 1: the mafia. The agents of the bureaus passed just weren't 124 00:08:28,440 --> 00:08:31,480 Speaker 1: getting the results they wanted and that the public needed. 125 00:08:32,200 --> 00:08:34,839 Speaker 1: But Joe had a natural edge when talking to mobsters 126 00:08:35,280 --> 00:08:37,160 Speaker 1: because he grew up around them. 127 00:08:37,920 --> 00:08:43,360 Speaker 3: My grandparents on my father's side were very strong Northern Italians, 128 00:08:43,480 --> 00:08:47,280 Speaker 3: and most of my formative years were actually in New Jersey, 129 00:08:47,600 --> 00:08:52,000 Speaker 3: with regular trips back to the Bronx to see family members. 130 00:08:52,120 --> 00:08:55,800 Speaker 3: And while my father was a law abiding citizen, a 131 00:08:55,880 --> 00:08:58,120 Speaker 3: few of our other family members got to be a 132 00:08:58,160 --> 00:08:59,360 Speaker 3: little sketchy at times. 133 00:09:00,360 --> 00:09:02,600 Speaker 1: After a stint in the army, Joe went back to 134 00:09:02,640 --> 00:09:05,719 Speaker 1: work with a telephone company, but one of his neighbors, 135 00:09:06,080 --> 00:09:09,720 Speaker 1: who happened to be an FBI agent, noticed Joe's natural 136 00:09:09,760 --> 00:09:12,880 Speaker 1: ability with tech equipment and convinced him to pursue a 137 00:09:12,960 --> 00:09:14,120 Speaker 1: career in law enforcement. 138 00:09:15,080 --> 00:09:17,280 Speaker 3: It was a gamble for me again because I barely 139 00:09:17,320 --> 00:09:20,080 Speaker 3: got out of high school, but I took a chance. 140 00:09:20,600 --> 00:09:24,320 Speaker 1: And that chance paid off. Joe immediately excelled at his 141 00:09:24,400 --> 00:09:27,640 Speaker 1: new gig, and it wasn't long before his unique skill 142 00:09:27,720 --> 00:09:32,040 Speaker 1: set led him to the FBI Special Operations Unit, and. 143 00:09:32,000 --> 00:09:37,240 Speaker 3: I became the technical supervisor for so one FBI Special 144 00:09:37,280 --> 00:09:39,320 Speaker 3: operations in New York City. 145 00:09:40,480 --> 00:09:43,120 Speaker 1: Joe was one of a select group of agents utilizing 146 00:09:43,160 --> 00:09:46,880 Speaker 1: the full resources and technology at the FBI to accomplish 147 00:09:46,920 --> 00:09:51,320 Speaker 1: one mission infiltrate and dismantle the mafia from the top down. 148 00:09:52,040 --> 00:09:56,000 Speaker 1: And over the next decade, the SO one Squad was relentless. 149 00:09:56,960 --> 00:10:02,679 Speaker 3: We did hundreds of surreptitious entries nights weekends when a 150 00:10:02,760 --> 00:10:07,679 Speaker 3: place was vacant. Surreptitious was always the preferred method to 151 00:10:07,840 --> 00:10:12,880 Speaker 3: install electronic surveillance or tracking, etc. But there were many 152 00:10:12,960 --> 00:10:17,320 Speaker 3: instances where the place was never vacant. When we were 153 00:10:17,400 --> 00:10:23,040 Speaker 3: confronted with that, I could create a scenario and fabricate 154 00:10:23,240 --> 00:10:27,439 Speaker 3: a problem that the subject would want to invite me in. 155 00:10:30,520 --> 00:10:34,520 Speaker 1: His targets some of the most dangerous and ruthless criminals 156 00:10:34,559 --> 00:10:37,800 Speaker 1: in America. But before we talk about all the ways 157 00:10:37,880 --> 00:10:40,840 Speaker 1: law enforcement infiltrated the Mob, I think it's important to 158 00:10:40,920 --> 00:10:43,320 Speaker 1: understand a little bit more about how the commission came 159 00:10:43,360 --> 00:10:47,280 Speaker 1: to be and why for so many decades authorities had 160 00:10:47,320 --> 00:10:53,280 Speaker 1: been so ineffective in stopping them. By the nineteen seventies, 161 00:10:53,320 --> 00:10:54,320 Speaker 1: New York was in trouble. 162 00:10:55,160 --> 00:10:57,360 Speaker 4: Every week you would see something in the paper, a 163 00:10:57,480 --> 00:10:59,520 Speaker 4: shooting between mob guys. 164 00:11:00,160 --> 00:11:03,920 Speaker 1: That's Jim Kostler, a former FBI special agent, and he 165 00:11:04,000 --> 00:11:05,559 Speaker 1: witnessed the violence firsthand. 166 00:11:06,880 --> 00:11:09,360 Speaker 4: I was hired as a special agent with the FBI 167 00:11:09,400 --> 00:11:13,000 Speaker 4: in nineteen seventy I spent eight years in Newark investigating 168 00:11:13,080 --> 00:11:16,640 Speaker 4: organized crime. In nineteen seventy nine, I was promoted and 169 00:11:17,080 --> 00:11:20,839 Speaker 4: sent to New York. My role was the position of 170 00:11:21,080 --> 00:11:25,160 Speaker 4: Labor Racketeering Program Manager for the New York Office. 171 00:11:26,200 --> 00:11:28,760 Speaker 1: Jim was persuaded to join the FBI by an agent 172 00:11:28,840 --> 00:11:31,520 Speaker 1: he met at a party. Leaving behind his career as 173 00:11:31,520 --> 00:11:34,480 Speaker 1: a special education teacher, he chose to serve the public 174 00:11:34,520 --> 00:11:37,840 Speaker 1: in a new way. Back when Jim was starting his career, 175 00:11:38,120 --> 00:11:41,040 Speaker 1: joining the FBI was the dream of every young kid 176 00:11:41,080 --> 00:11:44,480 Speaker 1: interested in law enforcement. The image of the straight backed, 177 00:11:44,520 --> 00:11:48,160 Speaker 1: all American g man was seared into popular culture. But 178 00:11:48,200 --> 00:11:51,880 Speaker 1: the truth was that despite its reputation and resources, the 179 00:11:51,960 --> 00:11:56,400 Speaker 1: Bureau was woefully behind encountering the mafia. In fact, the 180 00:11:56,480 --> 00:11:59,000 Speaker 1: Bureau was still under the control of its first director, 181 00:11:59,160 --> 00:12:02,280 Speaker 1: a man who for decades refused to even acknowledge the 182 00:12:02,320 --> 00:12:03,320 Speaker 1: existence of the mob. 183 00:12:04,400 --> 00:12:06,600 Speaker 4: You know, at that time, jag Or Hoover was the 184 00:12:06,640 --> 00:12:09,600 Speaker 4: director of the FBI. It was much different than it 185 00:12:09,640 --> 00:12:10,040 Speaker 4: is today. 186 00:12:10,080 --> 00:12:16,440 Speaker 1: Obviously, during Hoover's first thirty years as director, not a 187 00:12:16,480 --> 00:12:20,280 Speaker 1: single agent was assigned to work organized crime. Hoover even 188 00:12:20,360 --> 00:12:23,480 Speaker 1: famously banned the use of the word mafia in internal reports, 189 00:12:23,960 --> 00:12:27,720 Speaker 1: publicly downplaying mafia's as a mere hoodlums and a nuisance 190 00:12:27,760 --> 00:12:31,000 Speaker 1: to be dealt with by local law enforcement. This resulted 191 00:12:31,040 --> 00:12:33,360 Speaker 1: in what you could call a bottom up approach to 192 00:12:33,480 --> 00:12:38,200 Speaker 1: enforcing crime, focusing on individual perpetrators rather than the men 193 00:12:38,240 --> 00:12:41,240 Speaker 1: at the top pulling the strings. It was a never 194 00:12:41,400 --> 00:12:46,080 Speaker 1: ending battle. Hoover's policy severely limited Jim's ability to fight 195 00:12:46,240 --> 00:12:47,000 Speaker 1: organized crime. 196 00:12:47,960 --> 00:12:50,600 Speaker 4: The mission of the FBI at that point in time 197 00:12:50,760 --> 00:12:54,720 Speaker 4: was every agent was given assignments to take responsibility for 198 00:12:54,920 --> 00:12:58,800 Speaker 4: and to achieve something in a given period of time. 199 00:12:59,360 --> 00:13:03,760 Speaker 4: The response ability of every agent was to produce statistics. 200 00:13:04,200 --> 00:13:06,000 Speaker 4: At the end of the year, when it came time 201 00:13:06,040 --> 00:13:09,120 Speaker 4: for your evaluation, they looked at how many statistics you 202 00:13:09,200 --> 00:13:11,480 Speaker 4: had for that year, how many people did you arrest, 203 00:13:11,559 --> 00:13:13,960 Speaker 4: how many people did you put in jail, how much 204 00:13:14,160 --> 00:13:17,240 Speaker 4: did you recover? You recover stolen goods, and so forth. 205 00:13:18,240 --> 00:13:21,280 Speaker 1: And while handfuls of low level gangsters might be locked up, 206 00:13:21,679 --> 00:13:25,280 Speaker 1: mob leadership went unscathed. At the heart of the problem 207 00:13:25,400 --> 00:13:27,680 Speaker 1: was the way the FBI was organized. 208 00:13:28,559 --> 00:13:31,640 Speaker 4: When I got into organized crime in New Jersey. Every 209 00:13:31,679 --> 00:13:33,520 Speaker 4: morning we would come in and we would say hello 210 00:13:33,559 --> 00:13:35,920 Speaker 4: to each other, and then every agent on the squad 211 00:13:35,960 --> 00:13:39,600 Speaker 4: would go their own way. It was disjointed in that sense. 212 00:13:40,080 --> 00:13:43,040 Speaker 4: We didn't have a plan, just a matter of go 213 00:13:43,080 --> 00:13:46,440 Speaker 4: find a gambler, go find a loan shark, and you'll 214 00:13:46,480 --> 00:13:50,040 Speaker 4: be successful. I came to realize that that was not 215 00:13:50,120 --> 00:13:55,400 Speaker 4: a good method, another good system, because organized crime is organized. 216 00:13:56,120 --> 00:13:58,559 Speaker 4: The folks that were involved in it at a structure, 217 00:13:58,640 --> 00:14:02,520 Speaker 4: and they've worked under our hierarchy. We didn't work as groups. 218 00:14:03,800 --> 00:14:07,080 Speaker 1: It turns out the FBI should have taken a lesson 219 00:14:07,160 --> 00:14:23,400 Speaker 1: from the very men they were chasing. Translated from Italian, 220 00:14:23,480 --> 00:14:27,480 Speaker 1: the term cosin nostra literally means our thing. But that 221 00:14:27,680 --> 00:14:32,800 Speaker 1: seemingly innocuous designation is a ruse because that thing, the mafia, 222 00:14:33,280 --> 00:14:38,360 Speaker 1: is actually a highly organized, highly regulated system of rules, ranks, 223 00:14:38,400 --> 00:14:42,560 Speaker 1: and rituals that go back centuries. Much like an army, 224 00:14:42,880 --> 00:14:49,240 Speaker 1: an organized crime family operates with a strict hierarchy, with soldiers, captains, underbosses, 225 00:14:49,360 --> 00:14:52,920 Speaker 1: all reporting to a top boss and then as overseers 226 00:14:52,920 --> 00:14:56,880 Speaker 1: of it all. The Commission, a secretive council composed of 227 00:14:56,920 --> 00:15:01,480 Speaker 1: the five New York bosses. The Commission and ensured unity 228 00:15:01,560 --> 00:15:06,440 Speaker 1: and coordination among crime families nationwide, usually under the threat 229 00:15:06,480 --> 00:15:10,320 Speaker 1: of their iron fist, and it was this historical cooperation 230 00:15:10,480 --> 00:15:14,800 Speaker 1: that gave the families their power, reach, and sense of invincibility. 231 00:15:15,440 --> 00:15:20,280 Speaker 1: The Commission's origins, however, were anything but civil, so. 232 00:15:20,480 --> 00:15:23,720 Speaker 5: When the Mob was first form around nineteen thirty, it 233 00:15:23,800 --> 00:15:26,400 Speaker 5: followed what it was called the Castell Maurici War. 234 00:15:27,200 --> 00:15:30,680 Speaker 1: That's former Prosecutor Ron Goldstock, who at the time was 235 00:15:30,720 --> 00:15:33,800 Speaker 1: the director of the New York Organized Crime Task Force 236 00:15:34,440 --> 00:15:36,520 Speaker 1: and fair warning, We're going to be throwing a lot 237 00:15:36,560 --> 00:15:38,320 Speaker 1: of names at you in the next couple of minutes, 238 00:15:38,360 --> 00:15:42,120 Speaker 1: but I promise there won't be a quiz. The Castela 239 00:15:42,200 --> 00:15:45,960 Speaker 1: Maurici War was a bloody power struggle between two rival bosses, 240 00:15:46,440 --> 00:15:51,360 Speaker 1: Joe Massarea and Salvator Marenzano, both born in Sicily, both 241 00:15:51,440 --> 00:15:56,160 Speaker 1: notoriously ruthless, but a cunning and ambitious young gangster by 242 00:15:56,160 --> 00:15:59,400 Speaker 1: the name of Charles Lucky Luciano had his own eye 243 00:15:59,440 --> 00:16:04,400 Speaker 1: on the topso in April of nineteen thirty one, Luciano 244 00:16:04,480 --> 00:16:08,160 Speaker 1: conspired with Marenzano to take out the competition, and so 245 00:16:08,280 --> 00:16:12,240 Speaker 1: at a card game in Coney Island, Luciano casually excused 246 00:16:12,320 --> 00:16:15,840 Speaker 1: himself from the table right before four gunmen entered the 247 00:16:15,880 --> 00:16:23,480 Speaker 1: restaurant and opened fire, leaving Joe Massaia dead on the floor. 248 00:16:24,840 --> 00:16:28,520 Speaker 1: As a result of the brazen hit, Luciano inherited all 249 00:16:28,560 --> 00:16:33,080 Speaker 1: of Masaria's rackets. Marenzana then called a meeting with Luciano 250 00:16:33,160 --> 00:16:35,920 Speaker 1: and the heads of the three other mafia factions to 251 00:16:36,160 --> 00:16:43,400 Speaker 1: establish the Five Families, but Marenzana wanted to retain ultimate power. 252 00:16:44,480 --> 00:16:47,920 Speaker 5: In order to deal with problems that came about because 253 00:16:47,920 --> 00:16:51,440 Speaker 5: of competing interests of the families. He created a position 254 00:16:51,440 --> 00:16:55,600 Speaker 5: for himself as Boss of All Bosses, the Boss. 255 00:16:55,360 --> 00:16:59,200 Speaker 1: Of Bosses, but Marenzano's reign was short lived. 256 00:17:00,400 --> 00:17:03,840 Speaker 5: Luciano then had him killed just as he was plotting 257 00:17:03,880 --> 00:17:06,919 Speaker 5: to have Luciano killed, but Luciano was quicker. 258 00:17:08,200 --> 00:17:12,000 Speaker 1: In a plot befitting of Marenzano's nickname of Little Caesar, 259 00:17:12,520 --> 00:17:18,960 Speaker 1: four men disguised as fedes raided his office and stabbed 260 00:17:19,000 --> 00:17:22,359 Speaker 1: the boss multiple times before shooting him in the head 261 00:17:22,440 --> 00:17:26,560 Speaker 1: for good measure. Now with an opportunity to reign over 262 00:17:26,600 --> 00:17:30,560 Speaker 1: the entire mafia, Lucky Luciano faced a critical decision. 263 00:17:31,680 --> 00:17:35,440 Speaker 5: Luciano recognized that the position of boss of old bosses 264 00:17:36,119 --> 00:17:40,280 Speaker 5: was problematic. He just created enemies because whenever you would 265 00:17:40,359 --> 00:17:43,720 Speaker 5: rule on anything, you are always going to rule against somebody, 266 00:17:44,400 --> 00:17:49,800 Speaker 5: and so you needed another vehicle for dealing with each 267 00:17:49,840 --> 00:17:52,800 Speaker 5: of the family's competing interests. And so what he did 268 00:17:52,920 --> 00:17:54,760 Speaker 5: was to create the Commission. 269 00:17:55,760 --> 00:18:00,560 Speaker 1: Five seats, with each seat establishing equal representation, and to 270 00:18:00,600 --> 00:18:04,600 Speaker 1: prevent the war from continuing, Luciano offered a commission seat 271 00:18:04,640 --> 00:18:08,600 Speaker 1: to Marizano's underboss, Joe Banano, seeing it as the path 272 00:18:08,680 --> 00:18:13,720 Speaker 1: to peace. Banano accepted. Luciano held a national conference in 273 00:18:13,800 --> 00:18:16,920 Speaker 1: Chicago with the heads of the five New York families 274 00:18:16,920 --> 00:18:19,960 Speaker 1: and over twenty other mafia leaders from around the country, 275 00:18:20,560 --> 00:18:24,440 Speaker 1: and it was there in Chicago that Luciano instituted many 276 00:18:24,560 --> 00:18:28,439 Speaker 1: of the rules and traditions that would govern organize crime 277 00:18:28,520 --> 00:18:29,680 Speaker 1: for decades to come. 278 00:18:30,880 --> 00:18:35,800 Speaker 5: So he established the position of consolieri counselor, which meant 279 00:18:35,840 --> 00:18:38,040 Speaker 5: that the kap regime, if they had a problem with 280 00:18:38,080 --> 00:18:41,320 Speaker 5: the boss, could go to somebody as an ombutzman deal 281 00:18:41,400 --> 00:18:44,199 Speaker 5: with him, rather than having to confront the boss straight on. 282 00:18:45,359 --> 00:18:49,360 Speaker 1: As a trusted confidant to the boss, Consiglieri became one 283 00:18:49,400 --> 00:18:53,520 Speaker 1: of the top three administrative positions, usually equal in rank 284 00:18:53,600 --> 00:18:57,160 Speaker 1: to the underboss. With its rigid chain of command and 285 00:18:57,280 --> 00:19:01,920 Speaker 1: sworn oaths of fidelity, the modern American mafia was born. 286 00:19:02,960 --> 00:19:07,440 Speaker 1: It would enjoy unrivaled prosperity for decades. Crime boss Joe 287 00:19:07,440 --> 00:19:10,879 Speaker 1: Banano later described this period in his memoirs, writing that 288 00:19:11,040 --> 00:19:14,480 Speaker 1: and I quote. For nearly a thirty year period after 289 00:19:14,520 --> 00:19:19,000 Speaker 1: the Castella Morasi War, no internal squabbles marred the unity 290 00:19:19,000 --> 00:19:23,159 Speaker 1: of our family, and no outside interference threatened the family 291 00:19:23,320 --> 00:19:28,920 Speaker 1: or me. Everything would change in nineteen fifty seven, when 292 00:19:29,040 --> 00:19:32,840 Speaker 1: three major events thrust Cosinostra out of the shadows and 293 00:19:33,000 --> 00:19:36,760 Speaker 1: into the glare of the public spotlight. The first was 294 00:19:36,800 --> 00:19:41,840 Speaker 1: the attempted assassination of Luciano family boss Frank Costello by 295 00:19:42,000 --> 00:19:46,520 Speaker 1: up and comer Vincent the Chin Giganti. As Costello walked 296 00:19:46,520 --> 00:19:50,080 Speaker 1: through the lobby of his apartment building, Giganti snuck up 297 00:19:50,080 --> 00:19:54,399 Speaker 1: behind him and said, this is for you, Frank. A 298 00:19:54,520 --> 00:19:59,440 Speaker 1: hit that incredibly Costello survived the bullet just grazing his forehead, 299 00:20:00,000 --> 00:20:03,439 Speaker 1: but the real marvel is what happened next. Given the 300 00:20:03,480 --> 00:20:08,080 Speaker 1: opportunity to identify his shooter in court, Costello refused to 301 00:20:08,160 --> 00:20:11,600 Speaker 1: name Gigante Here's defense attorney, James Leonard. 302 00:20:12,520 --> 00:20:15,400 Speaker 6: During the trial, something right out of a movie. When 303 00:20:15,480 --> 00:20:20,080 Speaker 6: Costello was asked if he recognizes person's shot him, clearly 304 00:20:20,119 --> 00:20:23,600 Speaker 6: he knows who shot him, clearly, he knows who Giganty is. 305 00:20:23,640 --> 00:20:27,800 Speaker 6: Because Giganty is connected to Genevies, he says he can't identify. 306 00:20:29,280 --> 00:20:32,560 Speaker 1: It was a striking example of the Mafia's infamous code 307 00:20:32,560 --> 00:20:36,000 Speaker 1: of silence. But Omerta, as it was known, was not 308 00:20:36,119 --> 00:20:39,520 Speaker 1: just an oath of loyalty. It was the mafia's single 309 00:20:39,640 --> 00:20:44,920 Speaker 1: biggest defensive weapon against prosecution, denying law enforcement of cooperating 310 00:20:44,960 --> 00:20:48,879 Speaker 1: witnesses in any potential trial, and in the case of Giganty, 311 00:20:48,960 --> 00:20:51,879 Speaker 1: it likely saved him from a life in prison. In 312 00:20:51,920 --> 00:20:55,879 Speaker 1: another scene worthy of a movie, Giganty leaned towards Costello 313 00:20:55,960 --> 00:20:59,600 Speaker 1: while he was leaving the courtroom and whispered thanks a lot, Frank. 314 00:21:02,160 --> 00:21:05,720 Speaker 1: The second landmark event of Mobler from nineteen fifty seven 315 00:21:05,920 --> 00:21:10,160 Speaker 1: occurred a few months later, when mob boss Albert Anastasia 316 00:21:10,320 --> 00:21:13,320 Speaker 1: was shot and killed mid shave in a Manhattan barbershop. 317 00:21:15,200 --> 00:21:18,359 Speaker 1: It was more fallout from the Boch Costello hit, and 318 00:21:18,400 --> 00:21:22,040 Speaker 1: the very public midday murder was plastered all over every 319 00:21:22,119 --> 00:21:26,639 Speaker 1: front page in New York. Unwilling to retaliate for the headshot, 320 00:21:26,760 --> 00:21:29,719 Speaker 1: and perhaps fed up with a treacherous mob life fall together, 321 00:21:30,320 --> 00:21:34,560 Speaker 1: Frank Costello decided to go into early retirement, relinquishing full 322 00:21:34,600 --> 00:21:40,120 Speaker 1: control of the Lucciano family to his scheming underboss Vito Genovese. Then, 323 00:21:40,200 --> 00:21:43,760 Speaker 1: seeking to legitimize his power and rebrand the family name, 324 00:21:44,160 --> 00:21:47,000 Speaker 1: Genovis called for a national meeting to be held in 325 00:21:47,040 --> 00:21:50,280 Speaker 1: a sleepy farming town in upstate New York, which brings 326 00:21:50,359 --> 00:21:53,240 Speaker 1: us to the third major mob event of nineteen fifty seven. 327 00:21:54,560 --> 00:21:58,240 Speaker 1: Here's former prosecutor Guild Childers on what would prove to 328 00:21:58,320 --> 00:22:01,080 Speaker 1: be a devastating mistaken by mob leaders. 329 00:22:02,400 --> 00:22:06,720 Speaker 7: It was a national convention of lacos andostra at a 330 00:22:06,760 --> 00:22:10,760 Speaker 7: guy's house in Applelach in New York. Nice house in 331 00:22:10,800 --> 00:22:13,320 Speaker 7: a rural area if everyone thought it was out of 332 00:22:13,359 --> 00:22:15,360 Speaker 7: the way and safe and no one would find out 333 00:22:15,440 --> 00:22:19,400 Speaker 7: about it. But a couple of the local policemen, two 334 00:22:19,440 --> 00:22:21,520 Speaker 7: of them started noticing that there were a lot of 335 00:22:21,840 --> 00:22:24,680 Speaker 7: out of state license plates driving through town. 336 00:22:26,000 --> 00:22:28,760 Speaker 1: Authorities ran the plates on a bunch of expensive cars 337 00:22:28,880 --> 00:22:32,800 Speaker 1: and quickly learned that this convention wasn't your typical farmer's expo. 338 00:22:33,080 --> 00:22:36,080 Speaker 1: So they set up roadblocks and descended upon the appalak 339 00:22:36,160 --> 00:22:36,879 Speaker 1: And estate. 340 00:22:37,720 --> 00:22:40,920 Speaker 7: And they all fled like cockroach just wanted to turn 341 00:22:40,960 --> 00:22:43,560 Speaker 7: the light on in a New York City apartment. 342 00:22:45,280 --> 00:22:48,840 Speaker 1: Dozens of middle Agian elderly mobsters in suits and dress 343 00:22:48,840 --> 00:22:55,680 Speaker 1: shoes fled into the surrounding woods. Over sixty bosses, underbosses, consiglieries, 344 00:22:55,720 --> 00:22:59,879 Speaker 1: and capos were eventually arrested. Troopers found it embarrassed Joba 345 00:23:00,400 --> 00:23:01,959 Speaker 1: running through a nearby cornfield. 346 00:23:03,000 --> 00:23:07,040 Speaker 7: That scene was comically captured in the movie Analyzed This, 347 00:23:07,760 --> 00:23:11,000 Speaker 7: where it shows a couple mob guys writing a tractor 348 00:23:11,600 --> 00:23:13,639 Speaker 7: all the way back to New York City to escape 349 00:23:13,760 --> 00:23:14,959 Speaker 7: the cops from the time. 350 00:23:16,440 --> 00:23:21,800 Speaker 1: But more importantly, the Appalachan meetings signified actual proof, both 351 00:23:21,840 --> 00:23:24,560 Speaker 1: to the public and the government, the existence of a 352 00:23:24,640 --> 00:23:28,920 Speaker 1: nationwide criminal network. These were not just a random assortment 353 00:23:28,960 --> 00:23:32,040 Speaker 1: of local hoodlums as Hoover had described them. This was 354 00:23:32,080 --> 00:23:34,840 Speaker 1: an organization. Here's Ron Goldstock. 355 00:23:35,920 --> 00:23:40,679 Speaker 5: Federal government was not involved in the investigation and prosecution 356 00:23:40,800 --> 00:23:44,600 Speaker 5: of organized crime until the seventies, and it was only 357 00:23:44,720 --> 00:23:49,719 Speaker 5: after the Appalachian Meeting that the federal government first started 358 00:23:49,720 --> 00:23:50,720 Speaker 5: to take a look at it. 359 00:23:52,160 --> 00:23:56,120 Speaker 1: Soon, local, state and federal law enforcement agencies would launch 360 00:23:56,200 --> 00:23:58,760 Speaker 1: a new line of attack against organized crime. 361 00:23:59,840 --> 00:24:05,159 Speaker 5: The FBI began to use electronic surveillance to investigate the mob, 362 00:24:05,560 --> 00:24:08,679 Speaker 5: and they began to learn through the taps and bugs 363 00:24:08,720 --> 00:24:11,600 Speaker 5: they had put in a great deal about the mob structure. 364 00:24:12,920 --> 00:24:16,600 Speaker 1: Armed with modern technology and a deeper understanding of their 365 00:24:16,640 --> 00:24:21,080 Speaker 1: opponents and their weaknesses, small and nimble teams of undercover 366 00:24:21,160 --> 00:24:25,359 Speaker 1: officers and agents began to infiltrate the dark underworld of 367 00:24:25,440 --> 00:24:30,840 Speaker 1: Cosa Nostra, heralding the biggest defensive against organized crime the 368 00:24:30,960 --> 00:24:43,359 Speaker 1: nation had ever seen. After that almost laughable roundup of 369 00:24:43,400 --> 00:24:46,800 Speaker 1: mobsters in Upstate New York, public awareness of the mafia 370 00:24:46,840 --> 00:24:50,520 Speaker 1: had reached new heights. Here again, its defense attorney James Leonard. 371 00:24:51,480 --> 00:24:55,639 Speaker 6: When we get to the Bobby Kennedy era, it's a 372 00:24:55,760 --> 00:24:59,760 Speaker 6: very different time. Now we know about the mob, we 373 00:24:59,800 --> 00:25:02,879 Speaker 6: know that the mob exists, and ironically, one of the 374 00:25:02,880 --> 00:25:06,959 Speaker 6: main reasons that we know about the Mob is from 375 00:25:07,119 --> 00:25:09,840 Speaker 6: a defector from within the Genevese crime family. 376 00:25:10,600 --> 00:25:12,840 Speaker 8: What is the name of it. 377 00:25:12,840 --> 00:25:13,320 Speaker 3: It is. 378 00:25:15,000 --> 00:25:22,560 Speaker 8: Causing in Italian, causing nostra in Italian, our thing and 379 00:25:22,640 --> 00:25:24,160 Speaker 8: our family In English? 380 00:25:24,600 --> 00:25:26,000 Speaker 3: That is an organization? 381 00:25:26,359 --> 00:25:30,760 Speaker 1: Is it that requires The defector's name was Joseph Flacci. 382 00:25:31,280 --> 00:25:34,160 Speaker 1: He was a Genevieve soldier who in nineteen sixty three 383 00:25:34,560 --> 00:25:39,199 Speaker 1: became the first major violator of the Mafia code of silence. Oh, Marta, 384 00:25:39,480 --> 00:25:40,680 Speaker 1: that's right, yeah. 385 00:25:40,440 --> 00:25:43,320 Speaker 8: Why do you feel like it should be destroyed? First 386 00:25:43,400 --> 00:25:47,280 Speaker 8: of all, I want revenge. The second of all, they've 387 00:25:47,280 --> 00:25:51,879 Speaker 8: been very bad to the soldiers. They've been thinking for 388 00:25:51,960 --> 00:25:55,560 Speaker 8: themselves all through the years. As the senator put it before, 389 00:25:55,640 --> 00:25:57,320 Speaker 8: what did I get out of it? Why do you 390 00:25:57,359 --> 00:25:58,600 Speaker 8: get out but misery. 391 00:26:00,080 --> 00:26:04,480 Speaker 1: Lachi's testimony of mob life was unprecedented. He detailed the 392 00:26:04,480 --> 00:26:08,159 Speaker 1: induction ceremony of new members. He confirmed the existence of 393 00:26:08,200 --> 00:26:11,720 Speaker 1: the five families, their leaders, their structure, and he even 394 00:26:11,800 --> 00:26:13,040 Speaker 1: name dropped the commission. 395 00:26:13,680 --> 00:26:17,640 Speaker 8: What are the different physicians or ratings or ranked in 396 00:26:17,720 --> 00:26:22,359 Speaker 8: that organization? Starting at the top, what do you have? 397 00:26:23,640 --> 00:26:24,080 Speaker 3: We have. 398 00:26:25,640 --> 00:26:30,720 Speaker 8: What we call agunliasium in English, she would express it 399 00:26:30,760 --> 00:26:31,520 Speaker 8: as a commission. 400 00:26:34,240 --> 00:26:38,200 Speaker 1: The hearings capture the nation's attention and the term Cosonostra 401 00:26:38,480 --> 00:26:40,840 Speaker 1: cemented itself into American vernacular. 402 00:26:42,200 --> 00:26:45,240 Speaker 6: All of a sudden, the mob is in every living 403 00:26:45,280 --> 00:26:48,480 Speaker 6: room in the country, and we start to see things 404 00:26:48,560 --> 00:26:52,199 Speaker 6: like the Kennedy assassination and then the knee jerk reaction 405 00:26:52,520 --> 00:26:55,280 Speaker 6: was well, that was the mob, right, and the mob 406 00:26:55,359 --> 00:26:59,200 Speaker 6: did that for whatever reasons, again not proven but speculated. 407 00:26:59,800 --> 00:27:05,080 Speaker 6: So organized crime, the mafia really comes into our lexicon 408 00:27:05,840 --> 00:27:10,600 Speaker 6: in the mid sixties, and it's cemented forever in the 409 00:27:10,680 --> 00:27:14,120 Speaker 6: early seventies with the Godfather movie. That's it, and once 410 00:27:14,160 --> 00:27:16,120 Speaker 6: that happens, there's no turning back. 411 00:27:17,560 --> 00:27:20,840 Speaker 1: But while the mafia's power and notoriety was reaching an 412 00:27:20,880 --> 00:27:24,600 Speaker 1: all time high, a counter attack was developing over at 413 00:27:24,600 --> 00:27:29,639 Speaker 1: the FBI. The bureau's tallest hurtle out flanking the mob's 414 00:27:29,760 --> 00:27:35,600 Speaker 1: fortress like code of silence their solution technology seventies style 415 00:27:37,680 --> 00:27:41,359 Speaker 1: special agent Joe Cantamsa, who we met earlier, used his 416 00:27:41,480 --> 00:27:45,120 Speaker 1: guile and experience as a former telephone repairman to talk 417 00:27:45,160 --> 00:27:48,840 Speaker 1: his way into the homes and hangouts of several suspected mobsters. 418 00:27:49,520 --> 00:27:53,080 Speaker 1: But the most notorious and most dangerous was a Banano 419 00:27:53,200 --> 00:27:57,520 Speaker 1: captain named Alphonse in Delacado, known on the street as 420 00:27:57,520 --> 00:28:04,600 Speaker 1: Sonny Red. Sonny Read was a ruthless Kapa regime about 421 00:28:04,600 --> 00:28:06,960 Speaker 1: as violent as they come, and his rank in the 422 00:28:06,960 --> 00:28:10,399 Speaker 1: Banana hierarchy made him a very high value target for 423 00:28:10,440 --> 00:28:14,119 Speaker 1: the FEDS, and since Joe had already established himself as 424 00:28:14,160 --> 00:28:17,199 Speaker 1: a local, now he needed to make contact with Sonny 425 00:28:17,240 --> 00:28:18,360 Speaker 1: red sister Marie. 426 00:28:19,640 --> 00:28:24,119 Speaker 3: In Marie's apartment at one seventeen Elizabeth Street, she was 427 00:28:24,280 --> 00:28:27,840 Speaker 3: always home or somebody was always in the apartment. Sonny 428 00:28:27,840 --> 00:28:31,760 Speaker 3: would come back late the night, early morning, and you know, crash. 429 00:28:32,280 --> 00:28:34,639 Speaker 3: I mean, I want to get into her apartment. I 430 00:28:34,680 --> 00:28:36,479 Speaker 3: want to kind of take a look and see what 431 00:28:36,520 --> 00:28:38,680 Speaker 3: it looks like, and I want to try and figure 432 00:28:38,720 --> 00:28:40,960 Speaker 3: out if I could ever get a microphone in there. 433 00:28:41,480 --> 00:28:42,920 Speaker 3: But I got to get in there first. 434 00:28:44,160 --> 00:28:46,680 Speaker 1: And so Joe came up with a little ruse involving 435 00:28:46,680 --> 00:28:49,840 Speaker 1: a series of prank calls utilizing one of the FBI's 436 00:28:49,920 --> 00:28:51,000 Speaker 1: Chinese translators. 437 00:28:52,000 --> 00:28:55,160 Speaker 3: Translator comes down to her name is Ming. She obviously 438 00:28:55,200 --> 00:28:58,280 Speaker 3: knows English very well. I explained to her, I want 439 00:28:58,320 --> 00:29:00,280 Speaker 3: her to call this number right in front of me, 440 00:29:00,520 --> 00:29:03,560 Speaker 3: and I wanted to start talking Chinese, ask for somebody, 441 00:29:03,640 --> 00:29:05,920 Speaker 3: and then be a little bit stubborn about you know, 442 00:29:06,000 --> 00:29:09,400 Speaker 3: not getting cooperation. She does that, Marie hangs up the 443 00:29:09,400 --> 00:29:11,440 Speaker 3: phone on her I go, we'll wait a minute, and 444 00:29:11,560 --> 00:29:15,040 Speaker 3: we call back again. She makes the second call, Marie 445 00:29:15,080 --> 00:29:19,240 Speaker 3: hangs up again. This is two times. Marie's getting annoyed 446 00:29:19,600 --> 00:29:23,080 Speaker 3: that she's getting these calls. She calls a third time. 447 00:29:23,880 --> 00:29:27,000 Speaker 3: I'm looking straight at her. Her eyes get real big. 448 00:29:27,560 --> 00:29:31,160 Speaker 3: She drops the phone and runs out of my office. 449 00:29:31,680 --> 00:29:34,560 Speaker 3: Well that was good enough for me. Marie is going 450 00:29:34,640 --> 00:29:39,480 Speaker 3: to remember this phone call. The next day, I show 451 00:29:39,560 --> 00:29:43,160 Speaker 3: up and knock on Marie's door New York. Tell we 452 00:29:43,240 --> 00:29:46,640 Speaker 3: got a report of a crossed line. Have you gotten 453 00:29:46,640 --> 00:29:50,200 Speaker 3: any calls? And she lights up like a oh yeah, 454 00:29:50,360 --> 00:29:52,840 Speaker 3: you know, and then she starts complaining to me. I go, listen, 455 00:29:53,240 --> 00:29:56,800 Speaker 3: I'm just here to see where the line is crossed. So, 456 00:29:57,080 --> 00:29:59,040 Speaker 3: you know, she calms down. 457 00:29:59,240 --> 00:30:01,880 Speaker 1: And just like that, Joe would soon be up on 458 00:30:01,920 --> 00:30:05,640 Speaker 1: Sunny Red's phone. He was able to discreetly survey the 459 00:30:05,680 --> 00:30:09,440 Speaker 1: apartment for the ideal location to install a miniature transmitter, 460 00:30:09,840 --> 00:30:11,560 Speaker 1: commonly referred to as a bug. 461 00:30:12,920 --> 00:30:16,720 Speaker 3: You had to pay attention, but you couldn't pay so 462 00:30:16,840 --> 00:30:19,280 Speaker 3: much attention it looked like you were paying attention. 463 00:30:20,240 --> 00:30:23,160 Speaker 1: And if you play it cool. Sometimes you even get lucky. 464 00:30:24,040 --> 00:30:27,760 Speaker 1: After Joe explained the so called crossline problem. 465 00:30:28,080 --> 00:30:30,440 Speaker 3: Marie asked me if I could put her phone in 466 00:30:30,520 --> 00:30:34,280 Speaker 3: for an extension. Well, that's what I was waiting for 467 00:30:34,360 --> 00:30:37,440 Speaker 3: her to ask, I said, but this is the only 468 00:30:37,480 --> 00:30:41,280 Speaker 3: place I could put it in, which was in the hallway. 469 00:30:41,760 --> 00:30:44,640 Speaker 3: There was a little table there pretty close to where 470 00:30:44,680 --> 00:30:48,640 Speaker 3: the room was that Sonny would conduct his business perfect, 471 00:30:48,800 --> 00:30:51,040 Speaker 3: I said, well, I'll have to come back. We'll take 472 00:30:51,080 --> 00:30:51,480 Speaker 3: care of it. 473 00:30:52,240 --> 00:30:54,440 Speaker 1: Oh and while he was at it, could he also 474 00:30:54,480 --> 00:30:56,360 Speaker 1: stop by her sister in last place too? 475 00:30:57,400 --> 00:31:01,560 Speaker 3: She tells me that her sister in law lives at 476 00:31:01,680 --> 00:31:05,240 Speaker 3: one fifteen, and you know, could I go up and 477 00:31:05,280 --> 00:31:08,080 Speaker 3: see what she needed? And it turns out, unbeknownst to me, 478 00:31:08,200 --> 00:31:11,560 Speaker 3: this is Sonny Red's brother JB in Delicato. 479 00:31:12,880 --> 00:31:15,640 Speaker 1: JB. He was another mobster the Feds are keeping an 480 00:31:15,640 --> 00:31:19,200 Speaker 1: eye on, and while not Joe's target, when opportunity knocks, 481 00:31:19,400 --> 00:31:22,640 Speaker 1: you go ahead and answer. But still the risk of 482 00:31:22,680 --> 00:31:25,680 Speaker 1: being made was ever present, and sometimes it came from 483 00:31:25,680 --> 00:31:30,040 Speaker 1: the most unexpected places. When Joe arrived, JB asked him 484 00:31:30,040 --> 00:31:32,760 Speaker 1: to install a new touchdown phone to replace his old 485 00:31:32,840 --> 00:31:34,120 Speaker 1: rotary one. 486 00:31:34,360 --> 00:31:36,640 Speaker 3: Yeah, I could throw a touchstone in there for a 487 00:31:36,640 --> 00:31:40,240 Speaker 3: couple of bucks. I made an appointment to go back 488 00:31:40,280 --> 00:31:44,160 Speaker 3: and do that. I come back later, and now I'm 489 00:31:44,200 --> 00:31:48,000 Speaker 3: bringing with me one of my associates, John Kravic, because 490 00:31:48,000 --> 00:31:49,920 Speaker 3: I want to show him because when it comes time 491 00:31:50,000 --> 00:31:52,120 Speaker 3: to do this, I'm going to need more than one 492 00:31:52,120 --> 00:31:53,000 Speaker 3: person to do this. 493 00:31:54,200 --> 00:31:57,240 Speaker 1: Marie directs him to her mother's ground floor apartment for 494 00:31:57,320 --> 00:31:59,520 Speaker 1: the access that Joe said he needed to get their 495 00:31:59,600 --> 00:32:01,040 Speaker 1: job done. 496 00:32:01,280 --> 00:32:04,000 Speaker 3: I knock on the door. It's like nine o'clock in 497 00:32:04,040 --> 00:32:07,040 Speaker 3: the morning. The door opens and there's a woman about 498 00:32:07,080 --> 00:32:10,360 Speaker 3: four foot ten. I tell her I was just next door. 499 00:32:10,760 --> 00:32:13,720 Speaker 3: We got to get in the courtyard. We're walking back. 500 00:32:14,320 --> 00:32:18,800 Speaker 3: She stops dead right in front of us, turns around 501 00:32:18,840 --> 00:32:22,440 Speaker 3: and points to both of our faces and says, I 502 00:32:22,600 --> 00:32:26,120 Speaker 3: know you. You're the FBI. You come tap of the 503 00:32:26,160 --> 00:32:30,760 Speaker 3: phones in broken English. I look at John, and I 504 00:32:30,800 --> 00:32:33,160 Speaker 3: look at I go, Grandma, who cares what you say 505 00:32:33,200 --> 00:32:36,320 Speaker 3: on the phone? She paused, and she laughs, and then 506 00:32:36,360 --> 00:32:37,360 Speaker 3: everybody laughs. 507 00:32:39,160 --> 00:32:43,480 Speaker 1: Joe was working in the Lions then. Opportunity and life 508 00:32:43,520 --> 00:32:46,840 Speaker 1: threatening danger was literally behind every door. 509 00:32:48,080 --> 00:32:51,560 Speaker 3: John is in the basement. I'm kneeling on the floor 510 00:32:51,600 --> 00:32:55,920 Speaker 3: behind an open door, drilled a hole in the base board. 511 00:32:56,640 --> 00:33:01,200 Speaker 3: The door swings and it knocks me over, and I hear, 512 00:33:01,720 --> 00:33:03,240 Speaker 3: who the fuck are you. 513 00:33:05,040 --> 00:33:08,600 Speaker 1: Looming over? Joe was the mob captain himself Sonny read 514 00:33:08,640 --> 00:33:13,560 Speaker 1: In Delocado, and Sonny was not happy to deflex suspicion. 515 00:33:13,920 --> 00:33:17,720 Speaker 1: Joe reverted to his roots and actually being from the Bronx. 516 00:33:18,000 --> 00:33:18,920 Speaker 1: He was a natural. 517 00:33:20,080 --> 00:33:22,560 Speaker 3: And as I'm getting up, I'm going, who the fuck 518 00:33:22,640 --> 00:33:25,640 Speaker 3: are you? I go, I'm doing something for Marie. I said, 519 00:33:25,920 --> 00:33:26,880 Speaker 3: I don't know you. 520 00:33:27,560 --> 00:33:31,360 Speaker 1: And with some quick thinking, Joe diffuses the situation with 521 00:33:31,440 --> 00:33:35,200 Speaker 1: one of his tried and true methods, convincing Sonny red 522 00:33:35,240 --> 00:33:39,440 Speaker 1: In Delocado to actually help him install the very wiretap 523 00:33:39,760 --> 00:33:42,480 Speaker 1: that Joe was hoping to use to bring him down. 524 00:33:43,440 --> 00:33:45,560 Speaker 3: I go, well, listen, if you give me a hand 525 00:33:45,720 --> 00:33:49,160 Speaker 3: for just a minute or two, I'll find out where 526 00:33:49,200 --> 00:33:52,880 Speaker 3: the guy is downstairs and I'll get out of here. 527 00:33:53,440 --> 00:33:55,360 Speaker 3: He goes, what do you want? I go? I want 528 00:33:55,360 --> 00:33:58,320 Speaker 3: you to come right here and bang this little thing 529 00:33:58,400 --> 00:34:00,200 Speaker 3: on the floor and I'm going to go down the 530 00:34:00,200 --> 00:34:04,480 Speaker 3: basement and find out whareness. He says, okay, he comes 531 00:34:04,520 --> 00:34:08,319 Speaker 3: over starts tapping it. I go out, go down the basement. 532 00:34:08,680 --> 00:34:12,040 Speaker 3: John is walking around the flashlight in a completely wrong spot. 533 00:34:12,800 --> 00:34:15,759 Speaker 3: I tear down a piece of old sheet rock sort 534 00:34:15,760 --> 00:34:18,960 Speaker 3: of stuff. I grabbed the thing I got. I holler up, 535 00:34:18,960 --> 00:34:24,000 Speaker 3: I got it. He points, Who's that? I say to John, 536 00:34:24,360 --> 00:34:29,400 Speaker 3: it's sunny. John's eyes get this big. But nonetheless I 537 00:34:29,480 --> 00:34:32,279 Speaker 3: go back upstairs. I put my little connector block in. 538 00:34:32,400 --> 00:34:35,480 Speaker 3: I dropped the wire down, we make the splice, and 539 00:34:35,680 --> 00:34:39,520 Speaker 3: we're out of there. Perfect install. 540 00:34:39,560 --> 00:34:42,480 Speaker 1: It was one of the more daring wire tap installations 541 00:34:42,520 --> 00:34:45,920 Speaker 1: of his career, because little did he know that across 542 00:34:46,040 --> 00:34:49,880 Speaker 1: the river in Brooklyn, trouble was brewing and Sonny Red 543 00:34:50,320 --> 00:34:53,360 Speaker 1: was right in the middle of it. A day or 544 00:34:53,360 --> 00:34:56,920 Speaker 1: so later, Joe returned to install the requested touchdown phone. 545 00:34:58,080 --> 00:35:02,279 Speaker 3: I'm feeling pretty good the case. I'nt happy. The microphone's 546 00:35:02,320 --> 00:35:06,000 Speaker 3: in and working. I trot upstairs to JB's apartment. I 547 00:35:06,080 --> 00:35:08,880 Speaker 3: knock on the door and there's a little bit of 548 00:35:08,880 --> 00:35:09,480 Speaker 3: a pause. 549 00:35:10,680 --> 00:35:14,799 Speaker 1: The usual time it took to answer the door had passed. Eventually, 550 00:35:14,920 --> 00:35:17,839 Speaker 1: JB's wife called out, who is it. 551 00:35:18,120 --> 00:35:20,839 Speaker 3: I go, it's Joe, Joey the phone guy. 552 00:35:21,880 --> 00:35:25,560 Speaker 1: After another pause, Joe immediately has the thought that every 553 00:35:25,680 --> 00:35:29,000 Speaker 1: black bag agent has that his cover had been blown 554 00:35:29,440 --> 00:35:31,640 Speaker 1: and there was no telling who might be on the 555 00:35:31,680 --> 00:35:35,600 Speaker 1: other side of the door waiting for him. JB's wife 556 00:35:35,719 --> 00:35:38,360 Speaker 1: finally opens the door, and. 557 00:35:38,440 --> 00:35:41,200 Speaker 3: I could see she's been crying. I go okay, and 558 00:35:41,440 --> 00:35:44,880 Speaker 3: she because yes, and I'm thinking, all right, whatever's going on, 559 00:35:44,960 --> 00:35:48,520 Speaker 3: it ain't me. I walk over to the kitchen. Over 560 00:35:48,600 --> 00:35:53,319 Speaker 3: to my right on the couch, JB waves. I go over. 561 00:35:53,840 --> 00:35:57,320 Speaker 3: I changed the kitchen phone. I picked up my twenty 562 00:35:57,360 --> 00:35:58,000 Speaker 3: dollars tip. 563 00:35:58,440 --> 00:36:01,560 Speaker 1: I leave and he leaves in a hurry. 564 00:36:02,680 --> 00:36:06,360 Speaker 3: As I make the last turn to the foyer, all 565 00:36:06,400 --> 00:36:11,600 Speaker 3: I see is a soaking wet face and hair, and 566 00:36:11,640 --> 00:36:15,799 Speaker 3: then I realize between me and that face is a 567 00:36:15,960 --> 00:36:20,160 Speaker 3: large barrel revolver right in my face. That I did 568 00:36:20,160 --> 00:36:20,880 Speaker 3: not see. 569 00:36:22,239 --> 00:36:24,319 Speaker 1: On the other side of the revolver was a man 570 00:36:24,360 --> 00:36:28,880 Speaker 1: in obvious distress, scared, breathing heavily, and looking like he'd 571 00:36:28,920 --> 00:36:30,360 Speaker 1: been running for quite some time. 572 00:36:31,440 --> 00:36:34,840 Speaker 3: I go, okay, everything's cool, everything's good. 573 00:36:35,560 --> 00:36:39,640 Speaker 1: But the man would not lower his gun. Then a 574 00:36:39,719 --> 00:36:42,720 Speaker 1: miracle as help came in the form of a nosy 575 00:36:42,800 --> 00:36:45,279 Speaker 1: neighbor who recognized Joe as the phone guy. 576 00:36:46,200 --> 00:36:50,960 Speaker 3: He's okay, he's okay, it's Joey, he's okay. Sally, who 577 00:36:51,000 --> 00:36:52,799 Speaker 3: is one of the women I got friendly with in 578 00:36:52,840 --> 00:36:56,760 Speaker 3: the neighborhood, is yelling at this person who I don't 579 00:36:56,760 --> 00:37:00,960 Speaker 3: know who it is, that everything is okay. So he 580 00:37:01,080 --> 00:37:04,960 Speaker 3: puts this gun back in his waistband. I walk out 581 00:37:05,080 --> 00:37:10,160 Speaker 3: the door onto Elizabeth Street. I turned towards Grand and 582 00:37:10,320 --> 00:37:14,080 Speaker 3: my heart rate jumps from normal to one hundred and twenty. 583 00:37:14,719 --> 00:37:19,400 Speaker 3: So it was a delayed reaction to what might have happened. 584 00:37:20,560 --> 00:37:24,080 Speaker 1: All those weeks Joe spent establishing himself as a local 585 00:37:24,600 --> 00:37:25,720 Speaker 1: likely saved his life. 586 00:37:26,800 --> 00:37:30,640 Speaker 3: I walked down to the closest payphone. I called the office. 587 00:37:31,280 --> 00:37:35,920 Speaker 3: I asked for the supervisor, Damon Taylor. I go, Damon, 588 00:37:36,000 --> 00:37:41,040 Speaker 3: I just left Elizabeth Street, and Damon says to me, oh, 589 00:37:41,080 --> 00:37:44,520 Speaker 3: I forgot to call you. Forgot to call me and 590 00:37:44,560 --> 00:37:49,000 Speaker 3: tell me what There was a hit last night. Sonny's dead. 591 00:37:49,640 --> 00:37:54,399 Speaker 3: They're hunting for Bruno, his son. I go, well, I'm 592 00:37:54,440 --> 00:37:56,440 Speaker 3: pretty sure I just ran into Bruno. 593 00:37:57,760 --> 00:38:00,800 Speaker 1: It turns out that the night before Sonny red in 594 00:38:00,880 --> 00:38:04,400 Speaker 1: Delakado was one of the three capos gunned down in 595 00:38:04,480 --> 00:38:07,640 Speaker 1: Bensonhurst at the hands of Joe Messino and his son 596 00:38:07,680 --> 00:38:11,279 Speaker 1: Bruno and Delacado had every reason to be running for 597 00:38:11,320 --> 00:38:14,600 Speaker 1: his life. If there was ever any doubt that Joe 598 00:38:14,600 --> 00:38:17,520 Speaker 1: had penetrated the very center of the New York mob world, 599 00:38:17,920 --> 00:38:21,799 Speaker 1: it had vanished with Sunny Red's murder. The only problem 600 00:38:22,239 --> 00:38:26,279 Speaker 1: the bug planted in in Delocado's house was now worthless. 601 00:38:27,120 --> 00:38:33,279 Speaker 1: Sonny was dead, but the fight wasn't because, as it 602 00:38:33,320 --> 00:38:37,200 Speaker 1: turns out, Joe and his fellow Feds weren't the only 603 00:38:37,280 --> 00:38:41,560 Speaker 1: ones in town getting eyes and ears inside organized crime. 604 00:38:47,280 --> 00:38:51,120 Speaker 2: Next time on Law and Order Criminal Justice System. 605 00:38:51,080 --> 00:38:55,480 Speaker 6: We are going to utilize this to dismantle organized crime 606 00:38:55,760 --> 00:38:57,120 Speaker 6: by cutting off its head. 607 00:38:57,560 --> 00:38:59,759 Speaker 4: I dream of the day that you guys put all 608 00:38:59,800 --> 00:39:02,840 Speaker 4: the bosses of the families in jail in one place. 609 00:39:03,200 --> 00:39:07,720 Speaker 3: You had to be capable, confident, and dedicated to the mission. 610 00:39:08,120 --> 00:39:11,440 Speaker 3: I worked literally one hundred hours a week. 611 00:39:11,640 --> 00:39:14,880 Speaker 5: Where like a battleship, it takes us forever to turn 612 00:39:14,920 --> 00:39:17,479 Speaker 5: the ship around, but once we get where we're going, 613 00:39:17,560 --> 00:39:19,120 Speaker 5: we can knock out anybody in sight. 614 00:39:23,600 --> 00:39:26,920 Speaker 2: Law and Order Criminal Justice System is a production of 615 00:39:26,960 --> 00:39:32,319 Speaker 2: Wolf Entertainment and iHeart podcasts. Our host is Anna Sega Nicolazi. 616 00:39:33,120 --> 00:39:36,400 Speaker 2: This episode was written by Chandler Mays and Anna Sega 617 00:39:36,440 --> 00:39:41,760 Speaker 2: Nicolazzi Executive produced by Dick Wolf, Elliott Wolf, and Stephen 618 00:39:41,840 --> 00:39:47,880 Speaker 2: Michael at Wolf Entertainment on behalf of iHeartRadio. Executive produced 619 00:39:47,920 --> 00:39:52,840 Speaker 2: by Alex Williams and Matt Frederick, with supervising producers Trevor 620 00:39:52,920 --> 00:39:57,640 Speaker 2: Young and Chandler Mays and producers Jesse Funk, Nolms Griffin, 621 00:39:58,000 --> 00:40:02,720 Speaker 2: and Rima Olkali. This season is executive produced by Anna 622 00:40:02,800 --> 00:40:09,160 Speaker 2: Sega Nicolazzi, story producer Walker Lamond. Our researchers are Carolyn 623 00:40:09,239 --> 00:40:14,040 Speaker 2: Talmage and Luke Stents. Editing and sound designed by Nomes Griffin. 624 00:40:14,680 --> 00:40:19,800 Speaker 2: Original music by John O'Hara, original theme by Mike Post, 625 00:40:20,320 --> 00:40:24,880 Speaker 2: additional music by Steve Moore, and additional voiceover by me 626 00:40:25,400 --> 00:40:30,040 Speaker 2: Steve Zernkelton. Special thanks to Fox five in New York, 627 00:40:30,520 --> 00:40:35,520 Speaker 2: ABC and CBS for providing archival material for the show. 628 00:40:36,440 --> 00:40:40,560 Speaker 2: For more podcasts from iHeartRadio and Wolf Entertainment, visit the 629 00:40:40,600 --> 00:40:44,719 Speaker 2: iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your 630 00:40:44,760 --> 00:40:47,000 Speaker 2: favorite shows. Thanks for listening.