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Speaker 1: Hey, you welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind. My

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Speaker 1: name is Robert.

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Speaker 2: Lamb and I am Joe McCormick, and it's Saturday. Time

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Speaker 2: to go into the vault for an older episode of

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Speaker 2: the show. This is Part three of our series on

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Speaker 2: the gray whale. Parts one and two aired on Tuesday

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Speaker 2: and Thursday of this previous week. This episode originally published

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Speaker 2: on March ninth, twenty twenty three. I hope you enjoy.

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Speaker 3: Welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind, a production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 1: Hey, welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind. My name

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Speaker 1: is Robert Lamb.

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Speaker 2: And I'm Joe McCormick, and we're back with Part three,

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Speaker 2: the final part in our series on gray whales. Now

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Speaker 2: in the previous episodes, which if you haven't listened to yet,

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Speaker 2: you should probably go back and check out parts one

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Speaker 2: and two. First, in the previous ones, we described the

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Speaker 2: morphology and behavior of the species scientific name Eschrichtius robustus,

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Speaker 2: the robust buddies, the grey whales, and we talked about

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Speaker 2: their relationship with the barnacles that often pile up on

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Speaker 2: them like a like a big old nasty crust. And

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Speaker 2: we talked about their relationship with their main predator other

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Speaker 2: than humans, the orca uh. And today we're going to

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Speaker 2: kick off addressing their amazing migratory habits, which is probably

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Speaker 2: one of the main things to understand about this species.

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Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, And to sort of draw back to those

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Speaker 1: previous episodes that reiterate that I did get the chance

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Speaker 1: to see grey whales in the wild at their breeding lagoons,

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Speaker 1: a particular one of their breeding lagoons called Ojo de

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Speaker 1: Labra Lagoon on the Baja Peninsula about halfway down the

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Speaker 1: Baja Peninsula, and it was an amazing experience. So I'll

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Speaker 1: refer back to to some of my observations alongside thevarious

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Speaker 1: sighted materials that we're going to be referring to now.

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Speaker 1: Speaking of those breeding lagoons, in the last episode, we

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Speaker 1: mostly discussed these as the safe waters for the birth

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Speaker 1: of the whale calves and a reason for migration in

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Speaker 1: gray whales in particular. But as highlighted in one of

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Speaker 1: the books that I was using here, whales their biology

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Speaker 1: and behavior by Hammond at all, there are other considerations

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Speaker 1: to take into account concerning first of all, just migration

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Speaker 1: of balen whales in general. So on the reproductive front, yes,

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Speaker 1: protection from orcas does seem to be a major factor,

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Speaker 1: particularly with gray whales, and there's the additional hypothesis that

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Speaker 1: the whale calves to survive and grow better in warmer waters.

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Speaker 1: It's also argued that it's simply energetically more efficient to

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Speaker 1: swim to warmer waters than to overwinter up north. There's

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Speaker 1: also more visibility and shelter in tropical waters. We talked,

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Speaker 1: and this comes back to orcus survival to a large extent,

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Speaker 1: gust the gray whales ability to seek shallower waters. And

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Speaker 1: part of that is that there it sounds like they're

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Speaker 1: just more nooks and crannies that the whales may venture

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Speaker 1: into to find refuge. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: So, for example, when gray whales are threatened by orcas,

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Speaker 2: it's been observed that they might try to seek shelter,

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Speaker 2: say in kelp beds, or like in hiding in seaweed,

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Speaker 2: or even in breaking surf, which apparently helps obscure their presence.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and we'll come back some more details about this

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Speaker 1: in a minute. The authors here do stress, however, that

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Speaker 1: there's just there's no one size fits all explanation, especially

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Speaker 1: considering that there are various differences in behavior among the

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Speaker 1: balen whales in general. For instance, they mentioned that one

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Speaker 1: factor for many balen whales, again not grey whales specifically,

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Speaker 1: but other filter feeding whales, seems to be that during

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Speaker 1: the summer you have a stratification of the water column

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Speaker 1: to include a highly photic zone, resulting in rapid photosynthesis

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Speaker 1: and reproduction of phytoplankton. Phytoplankton are the plant plankton, and

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Speaker 1: these phytoplankton in turn feed the zooplankton, which of course

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Speaker 1: are the animal plankton, and this generally fattens up the

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Speaker 1: entire ecosystem in these waters. But then in the winter,

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Speaker 1: cooling temps and strong winds break up the stratification, mixing

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Speaker 1: the vertical water column. Phytoplankton can't stay near the surfaces easily,

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Speaker 1: there's increasingly less sunlight, and prey availability takes a dive

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Speaker 1: as well.

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Speaker 2: Okay, so the plankton scene kind of dries up a

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Speaker 2: little bit.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Now, as we mentioned, and I believe the first episode,

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Speaker 1: gray whales are of course rather different than a lot

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Speaker 1: of the other baileen whales, I mean, all the other

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Speaker 1: extent baalen whales, because they're not really going after things

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Speaker 1: like kelp and zooplankton. No, they're going after those benthic

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Speaker 1: organisms like isopods in the sand on the seafloor, so

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Speaker 1: they're not directly feeding for the most part on plankton. However,

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Speaker 1: the benthic organisms down there are still part of the

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Speaker 1: food web and are therefore impacted as well by all

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Speaker 1: of this.

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Speaker 2: Okay, so if you don't recall, we described their typical

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Speaker 2: feeding behavior, I think in part one of this series,

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Speaker 2: where unlike the whales you've probably seen kind of like

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Speaker 2: zooming around near the surface of the water and just

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Speaker 2: like letting water wash into their mouths and filtering out

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Speaker 2: all of the plankton or the krill or whatever with

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Speaker 2: their billion, the gray whales have a habit of slamming

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Speaker 2: their heads into the sediment on the ocean bottom in

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Speaker 2: relatively shallow areas to sort of like scoop up a

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Speaker 2: bunch of this sediment and then get use their billion

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Speaker 2: to filter the organisms out of it and eat those.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly like basically scraped in one side of their

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Speaker 1: face across the sea floor. Now there's another interesting factor

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Speaker 1: in all this. So we mentioned in one of the

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Speaker 1: previous episodes that grey whales have been observed in recent

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Speaker 1: years overwintering in the Arctic and not making the migration

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Speaker 1: down south in rare instances. And I don't believe we're

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Speaker 1: talking about reproductive or currently reproducing females in these cases.

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Speaker 1: But basically this is a situation where we have to

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Speaker 1: consider climate change once again. We have to remember that

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Speaker 1: climate change has some of its more drastic effects in

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Speaker 1: the Arctic. And I was reading and interesting NOAA paper

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Speaker 1: dealing with some of this, titled Sentinels of Change Gray

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Speaker 1: Whales in the Arctic, pointing out that less sea ice

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Speaker 1: means more exposed ocean areas, and this alone has a

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Speaker 1: huge impact on the environment. But they also point out

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Speaker 1: the following. So in cold years, what you have happening

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Speaker 1: first is a spring bloom of plankton. But in the

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Speaker 1: early spring, most zooplankton are not yet ready to graze. Meanwhile,

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Speaker 1: the phytoplankton, the plants digging all that sunlight, they're just

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Speaker 1: going crazy, and there's so much of it that the

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Speaker 1: zooplankton are not in. The zooplankton are not ready to

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Speaker 1: feed on it yet, so most of it ends up

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Speaker 1: sinking to the bottom. And what happens at the bottom, well,

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Speaker 1: that's where the benthic organisms are and they feast on them.

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Speaker 1: And again that is what the gray whales are primarily

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Speaker 1: going to eat, those creatures down there that just date

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Speaker 1: all of this phytoplankton. In warmer years, however, the sea

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Speaker 1: ice melts too early, there's not enough light to really

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Speaker 1: power up the spring bloom of phytoplankton, and so the

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Speaker 1: phytoplankton bloom is delayed and it doesn't really hit until

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Speaker 1: oh the zooplankton is fully ready to feed, meaning that

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Speaker 1: the zooplankton can eat most of it. There's less to

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Speaker 1: rain down to the benthic organisms.

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Speaker 2: Okay, so that sounds not great for grey whales.

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Speaker 1: That's what it would sound, right, yeah, because that's their

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Speaker 1: primary feast down there. But what this particular paper stresses

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Speaker 1: is that as warmer years likely continue due to climate change,

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Speaker 1: we might see gray whales shift in their diet. So

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Speaker 1: we mentioned that they're fairly opportunistic, so they will do

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Speaker 1: some filter feeding in the upper portions of the of

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Speaker 1: the water. So if they aren't able to get what

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Speaker 1: they would normally get down there at the bottom, or

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Speaker 1: it seems like there's more, say zooplankton in the upper

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Speaker 1: portion of the water column. Then they will eat that

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Speaker 1: and potentially eat that instead. So it's a situation where

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Speaker 1: they outline that a couple of things might happen. We

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Speaker 1: might just see them displaced from their traditional feeding grounds,

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Speaker 1: but we also might see a portion of their diet

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Speaker 1: shift more in favor of filter feeding upwards in the

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Speaker 1: water column, eating more zooplankton than would normally make up

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Speaker 1: their diet. And I think, goodness, I'm trying to remember

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Speaker 1: what the percentage was when we talked about it, but

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Speaker 1: it's like a huge percentage of their known normal diet

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Speaker 1: is those benthic organisms down there in the sand. So

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Speaker 1: it's kind of a good news not I don't know

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Speaker 1: if it's a good news bad new situation, but anyway,

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Speaker 1: it's weeks to These organisms have been around for a

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Speaker 1: long time, and part of their ability to survive has

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Speaker 1: been their ability to make reasonable adaptations.

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Speaker 2: Yes, And I guess that brings us back to the

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Speaker 2: issue of the migration, because what we're talking about right

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Speaker 2: now is primarily what's happening in their feeding grounds in

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Speaker 2: the Arctic waters, but that's only half of the story.

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Speaker 2: That's where they fatten up up north, especially when we're

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Speaker 2: talking about this population of the Eastern Pacific gray whales.

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Speaker 2: The other half of the story is reproduction, which involves

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Speaker 2: a journey south.

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Speaker 1: That's right, and this is quite a journey for the

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Speaker 1: gray whales. The distance between their summer feeding grounds and

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Speaker 1: their winter breeding grounds can exceed twenty thousand kilometers. That's

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Speaker 1: something like four hundred and twenty seven miles. Now, it's

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Speaker 1: worth discussing again again. These are not deep ocean whales,

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Speaker 1: and that makes sense given their diet. They primarily stick

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Speaker 1: to shallow continental shelf waters. They stick reasonably close to

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Speaker 1: the coast, and therefore we see that reflected also in

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Speaker 1: the way they migrate between these two waters. They're not

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Speaker 1: making a beeline from one area to the next. Their

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Speaker 1: journey tends to be more coastal, with some alterations depending

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Speaker 1: on exactly whe their circumstances are. Now, we mentioned that

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Speaker 1: there used to be a population of North Atlantic gray whales,

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Speaker 1: and it's thought that they would have fed around Newfoundland,

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Speaker 1: the Gulf of Saint Lawrence, Iceland, and Europe's North Sea.

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Speaker 1: And it's thought that they would have found winter breeding

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Speaker 1: refuges somewhere along the coasts of Georgia and the Carolinas

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Speaker 1: here in the States, as well as uncertain spots along

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Speaker 1: the coasts of Spain, Portugal, and Morocco. Now, this population

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Speaker 1: was essentially extinct by the late seventeenth and early eighteenth centuries,

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Speaker 1: due at the very least in a large part to whaling,

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Speaker 1: if not largely to whaling or entirely to whaling. Interestingly enough,

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Speaker 1: there have been proposals to try and reintroduce specific gray

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Speaker 1: whales into this region to restore the population. I think

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Speaker 1: we mentioned this previously. And there's also the possibility that

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Speaker 1: they may recolonize the area themselves as in the future

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Speaker 1: as sea ice melts and opens up these waters to

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Speaker 1: them once again. So the North Pacific population potentially recolonizing

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Speaker 1: the North Atlantic, But that's kind of hypothetical. We're not

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Speaker 1: sure exactly how that would pan out, though.

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Speaker 2: I guess it's always possible, because occasionally you do find

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Speaker 2: whales like way outside of their normal ranges, right, They

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Speaker 2: just kind of pop up in strange places that you

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Speaker 2: don't usually find them.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, there are a couple of outstanding examples of that

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Speaker 1: that Carbonine points out. A single gray whale was sighted

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Speaker 1: off the coast of Israel in twenty ten and in

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Speaker 1: twenty thirteen, one was seen off the coast of Namibia,

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Speaker 1: and it's uncertain exactly why. In both of these cases,

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Speaker 1: the Hammond at All point out that their origin was

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Speaker 1: almost certainly the North Pacific population in both cases.

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Speaker 2: Though, yeah, that's great. How would they get that far away? Yeah,

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Speaker 2: I mean, I guess we know they can swim away

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Speaker 2: as due to their to their habitual migrations. But yeah,

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Speaker 2: you want to know the story of that wandering whale.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, now, now coming back to that now extinct North

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Speaker 1: Atlantic population. Quick Outlander note out for everyone out there.

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Speaker 1: I was reminded of this. My wife reminded me that

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Speaker 1: we had watched this. But the television series adaptation of

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Speaker 1: Outlander has a scene set on the coast of South Carolina,

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Speaker 1: and again this is about time travelers going back in time,

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Speaker 1: in which two of our time traveling characters remark about

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Speaker 1: some whale activity off the coast and how they wouldn't

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Speaker 1: have seen this in their original timelines or in the

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Speaker 1: original times, and the footage they use in the show,

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Speaker 1: I had to check it. It's not gray whales that

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Speaker 1: they're they're using here, I believe, but it certainly made

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Speaker 1: me think of this scenario that you're like, Yeah, if

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Speaker 1: you went back in time before human whaling activity seemingly

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Speaker 1: had a chance to just drastically alter the the ecosystem

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Speaker 1: in the Atlantic, you would have potentially seen these great whales,

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Speaker 1: Like it would have been possible for me to see

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Speaker 1: gray whales in my home state of Georgia potentially without

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Speaker 1: having to travel to the other side of the continent

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Speaker 1: and then to another country.

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Speaker 2: And when is this said an outlander? Is this like

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Speaker 2: early eighteenth century or something?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, the initial transplant I think is from nineteen forty

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Speaker 1: five to seventeen forty three. Okay, okay, yeah, And certainly,

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Speaker 1: as we'll discuss, given the population changes in the gray whale,

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Speaker 1: like nineteen forty five, it was a bad time for

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Speaker 1: the great whale anyway. This also reminded me of something

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Speaker 1: that our previous guest on the show. This, I think

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Speaker 1: was while you were out, Joe, I talked with Ryan

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Speaker 1: Tucker Jones, author of the book Red Leviathan, which is

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Speaker 1: largely about Soviet whaling in the Industrial Age, but it

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Speaker 1: also discusses just the history of whaling in general. In it,

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Speaker 1: it's a fascinating look at like why the the Soviet

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Speaker 1: Union got increasingly into whaling during the Industrial Age, and

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Speaker 1: the impact of it, what was also learned scientifically from it.

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Speaker 1: And there's a bit in that. This is just from

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Speaker 1: the introduction where he writes, quote, as someone who grew

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Speaker 1: up in Oregon and California in the nineteen eighties, I

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Speaker 1: experienced the ocean at the whale's lowest point, an ocean

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Speaker 1: that had been created by the Soviet Union as much

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Speaker 1: as anyone. The history of Soviet whaling belongs to anyone

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Speaker 1: who looks out to the sea and sees nothing. Ooh. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: there are a lot of really haunting moments in the

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Speaker 1: book and just a lot of great details. Certainly go

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Speaker 1: back and listen to that interview for more, or just

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Speaker 1: check out the book. Just a reminder that the grey

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Speaker 1: whale in particular was hunted near the point of extinction

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Speaker 1: by humans. We slaughtered them on their migration routes, We

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Speaker 1: slaughtered them in their northern feeding grounds, and we slaughtered

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Speaker 1: them in their breeding lagoons. They were afforded full protection

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Speaker 1: in nineteen forty six, though Soviet whalers took three hundred

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Speaker 1: and twenty under scientific permit in nineteen sixty, along with

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Speaker 1: another one hundred and thirty eight illegally. These figures according

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Speaker 1: to Carwodine in Carwadine Just in case you don't remember,

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Speaker 1: I haven't cited him in this episode, but that's Mark

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Speaker 1: Carwodine's Handbook of Whales, Dolphins and Porpoises of the World.

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Speaker 1: But adding more context from Jones here, he notes that

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Speaker 1: by the end of the classical age of whaling, so

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Speaker 1: the pre industrial sailing age of whaling, the sort of

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Speaker 1: moby Dick era of whaling quote, humans mainly Americans, had

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Speaker 1: reduced Pacific gray whales from around twenty four thousand to

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Speaker 1: a remnant population of two thousand. Atlantic grey whales were

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Speaker 1: entirely extinct.

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Speaker 2: And so from what I understand today, Atlantic grey whales,

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Speaker 2: they are gone for all we know. And then there

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Speaker 2: are the two populations. There is the Western Pacific grey whale,

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Speaker 2: which lives along the eastern coast of the Asian mainland.

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Speaker 2: That population is, from what we can tell, in pretty

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Speaker 2: rough shape today. I don't remember how many individuals it's

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Speaker 2: down to, but it's estimated to be pretty low. Whereas

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Speaker 2: the Eastern Pacific gray whale, along the coast of North America,

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Speaker 2: is doing okay.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, And in terms of the classical and industrial whaling, like,

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Speaker 1: certain species were impacted more in different in different phases.

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Speaker 1: So the gray whales were slower, and they tended to

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Speaker 1: be closer to shore, so in many respects they were

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Speaker 1: easier to catch during that classic age of whaling, though

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Speaker 1: like we mentioned, they were the devilfish. They could certainly

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Speaker 1: put up a hell of a fight as well. But

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Speaker 1: as the age of industrial whaling brought many of the

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Speaker 1: faster species like blue whales and fins into the sort

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Speaker 1: of whaling fold, here those whales had fewer defenses against whalers.

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Speaker 1: They'd really only ever had to contend with Orca Jones rides.

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Speaker 1: But meanwhile, in the age of industrialized Soviet whaling quote,

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Speaker 1: gray whales were particularly tricky. Soviet whalers noted that despite

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Speaker 1: being slow, the gray was the only whale and he

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Speaker 1: quotes about which no rules of catching have been established.

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Speaker 1: Only on rare occasions did grays move in a straight line,

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Speaker 1: instead usually swimming in zigzags, making movements to one or

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Speaker 1: the other side without determined direction. Science the Soviets hoped

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Speaker 1: might help establish some or other pattern to its movement.

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Speaker 2: I wonder if the ways that different whales react to

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Speaker 2: reacted to threats by human whalers was affected by the

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Speaker 2: different strategies these species had for dealing with orca. Obviously,

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Speaker 2: the threats posed by human whalers and orca are going

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Speaker 2: to be of a very different shape and nature. But

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Speaker 2: maybe some anti predator strategies aimed at orca were just

305
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Speaker 2: also just also happened to, by coincidence, be better at

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Speaker 2: evading human whalers.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it sounds likely because certainly one of the things

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Speaker 1: about the industrial ages just had faster ships and they

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Speaker 1: could keep up with whales, and they could get those

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Speaker 1: whales that were further out. So great whales in the

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Speaker 1: North Pacific were greatly reduced by this time, and those

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Speaker 1: that remained were even harder to acquire. Jones also notes

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Speaker 1: that by nineteen thirty six, the average size of grey

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Speaker 1: whales captured was greatly decreased, and the reasoning here was

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Speaker 1: quote the population was no longer seeing its members to adulthood,

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Speaker 1: because again, these are creatures. They can live I think

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Speaker 1: upwards of late like eighty years or so if I'm

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Speaker 1: remembering correctly, and they're just they That's how impacted the

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Speaker 1: population was now today. Carwoden notes that while grey whales

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Speaker 1: in general have greatly rebounded and like, if you look

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Speaker 1: them up online, you'll quickly see that they're listed as

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Speaker 1: least concern as far as conservation status goes, which is

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Speaker 1: great news. That's a heck of a comeback story. But

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Speaker 1: they're still threatened by oil and gas developments in the

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Speaker 1: Arctic and declining sea ice. Other threats include entanglement and

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Speaker 1: fishing gear, occasional illegal harpooning, chemical pollution, noise pollution, ship collision,

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Speaker 1: and the expansion of sea salt production in Baja California.

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Speaker 1: In my own experience down there in Baja California, I

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Speaker 1: mean the lagoon that we ventured out to in order

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Speaker 1: to see the whales was surrounded pretty much only by

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Speaker 1: salt industry projects, so I can understand what that would

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Speaker 1: be a concern. Carwadine also notes that while the Eastern

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Speaker 1: North Pacific group is doing great at the moment, there

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Speaker 1: was you do see some fluctuations. So there was a

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Speaker 1: six hundred and fifty one whale die off in nineteen

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Speaker 1: ninety nine through twenty eleven, and that would have been

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Speaker 1: like a twenty three percent population die off, though this

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Speaker 1: doesn't necessarily reflect long term survivability. According to the NOAA,

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Speaker 1: you can have big swings in population like that and

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Speaker 1: it doesn't necessarily speak to how the species is doing

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Speaker 1: long term. But that Western North Pacific population, like we

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Speaker 1: said earlier, this one, according to Carbadene, is quote one

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Speaker 1: of the most endangered whale populations in the world. So

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Speaker 1: even though the species at whole is doing better, we're

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Speaker 1: mostly looking at the Eastern North Pacific group as opposed

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Speaker 1: to the West North Pacific group. Again, to whatever extent,

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Speaker 1: that's a true separate population because we do see overlap

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Speaker 1: in their breeding and behavior. So getting more back into

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Speaker 1: just the migration patterns here that are pretty fascinating. We

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Speaker 1: have the North Pacific gray whale to contend with here,

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Speaker 1: and you have these two basic groups. The Eastern North

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Speaker 1: Pacific grays migrate between those Baja California breeding lagoons and

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Speaker 1: summer feeding grounds and the bearing chuck Chi and Beaufort seats,

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Speaker 1: though this range is expanding as the ice opens up again.

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Speaker 1: The Western North Pacific grays migrate between winter breeding grounds

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Speaker 1: somewhere in the South China Sea to summer feeding grounds

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Speaker 1: in the Sea of Okotsk and parts of Kamchatka, and

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Speaker 1: there is some mixing of these groups in both the

359
00:20:53,880 --> 00:20:56,480
Speaker 1: summer and winter. Now, the eastern North Pacific grays have

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Speaker 1: the longer of the two migrations, spanning up to fifty

361
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Speaker 1: degrees of latitude, according to Carwoodine, and the shortest return

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Speaker 1: journey for these whales is about twelve thousand kilometers or

363
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Speaker 1: about seven thousand, four hundred and fifty six miles. He

364
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Speaker 1: adds that the longest documented migration of any mammal was

365
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Speaker 1: a female gray whale with a twenty two thousand, five

366
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Speaker 1: hundred and eleven kilometer round trip between sakal And Island,

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Speaker 1: Russia and Baja California, Mexico. So that would have been

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Speaker 1: again that we're talking about how there is overlap in

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Speaker 1: the ranges of the eastern and the western. Now, note

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Speaker 1: that there's also apparently a two hundred strong Pacific coast

371
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Speaker 1: feeding group that doesn't migrate all the way up to

372
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Speaker 1: the Arctic at all, but feeds off a coastal area

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Speaker 1: stretching between northern California in southeast Alaska. And there's another

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Speaker 1: group that feeds and Puget Sound. So all right, here

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Speaker 1: are the stages of the migration, and in covering these stages,

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Speaker 1: we're going to hit on some of the things we've

377
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Speaker 1: discussed already, but try and keep it reasonably succinct here.

378
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Speaker 1: But first we'll start with leaving the Arctic. Okay, they've

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Speaker 1: been feeding. The whales has been feeding up north, and

380
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Speaker 1: the signal to heads south seems to be a combination

381
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Speaker 1: of the formation of sea ice and the decreasing day length.

382
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Speaker 1: Apparently ninety percent leave the Bearing Sea through Inemac Pass

383
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Speaker 1: on a sixty day journey to Baja California. Near term

384
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Speaker 1: mothers leave first, then other adults, then immature females, and

385
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Speaker 1: then immature males. The last are on their way south

386
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Speaker 1: while the first group is already on their way back north. Again.

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Speaker 2: Oh, that's interesting.

388
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Speaker 1: The orca threat is far less during this part of

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Speaker 1: the cycle, again referring back to the to the orcas.

390
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Speaker 1: The orcas are are are intelligent and cunning in their

391
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Speaker 1: hunting of these dangerous, these fearsome prey species. So at

392
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Speaker 1: this point, the whales have been feeding all summer long,

393
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Speaker 1: so they're they're they're fueled up, they're they're ready to fight,

394
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Speaker 1: and their calves are are are even larger than they

395
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Speaker 1: were previously, so everybody stronger, everyone's well fed. It's not

396
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Speaker 1: to say that the orcas won't feed or won't attempt

397
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Speaker 1: to acquire prey, but this is not the optimal time

398
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Speaker 1: to do.

399
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Speaker 2: It, and a reminder of what we talked about last time.

400
00:23:10,040 --> 00:23:12,239
Speaker 2: This would be related to the fact that orcas are

401
00:23:12,240 --> 00:23:16,160
Speaker 2: going to be mostly trying to prey on newborn whale

402
00:23:16,200 --> 00:23:19,880
Speaker 2: calves for their return journey coming up the migratory corridor

403
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Speaker 2: back to the feeding grounds, because a healthy adult gray

404
00:23:24,680 --> 00:23:28,920
Speaker 2: whale is a pretty hard target, and orcas are observed

405
00:23:28,960 --> 00:23:32,080
Speaker 2: to not never, but very rarely try to attack a

406
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Speaker 2: healthy adult. Usually what they're trying to do is separate

407
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Speaker 2: a young calf and prey on it.

408
00:23:37,160 --> 00:23:40,159
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. So they make their way south and then

409
00:23:40,200 --> 00:23:43,480
Speaker 1: it's lagoon time, and there are three main areas that

410
00:23:43,480 --> 00:23:45,680
Speaker 1: they gather here. The exact amount of time spent in

411
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Speaker 1: the lagoon's varies depending on sex and the presence of calves.

412
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Speaker 1: Females with young calves just going to hang out far

413
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Speaker 1: longer because you know, they need to bring get that

414
00:23:56,840 --> 00:23:59,800
Speaker 1: young one up to wait up to strength before they

415
00:23:59,800 --> 00:24:02,639
Speaker 1: head back out again, whereas like a male that's come

416
00:24:02,680 --> 00:24:05,000
Speaker 1: down to breed. You know, obviously he doesn't have to

417
00:24:05,000 --> 00:24:07,520
Speaker 1: stay as long's he can head back up as soon

418
00:24:07,520 --> 00:24:10,399
Speaker 1: as he's ready. As we've discussed, these waters provide shelter

419
00:24:10,480 --> 00:24:14,080
Speaker 1: against the orca, but they don't provide food. The adult

420
00:24:14,160 --> 00:24:17,320
Speaker 1: whales don't feed while they're in the lagoon, and the

421
00:24:17,720 --> 00:24:20,320
Speaker 1: whales that are born here while they drink their mother's milk,

422
00:24:20,440 --> 00:24:21,960
Speaker 1: and of course that is you know, just going to

423
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Speaker 1: sort of drain the mother is even more so.

424
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Speaker 2: This makes it really important that they fatten up as

425
00:24:27,359 --> 00:24:29,520
Speaker 2: much as possible before the journey south.

426
00:24:29,960 --> 00:24:32,840
Speaker 1: Exactly. Yeah, like we said, they seem safe from the

427
00:24:32,920 --> 00:24:34,920
Speaker 1: orca here because the orca are hesitant to enter into

428
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Speaker 1: shallow waters where they won't be able to employ their

429
00:24:37,840 --> 00:24:40,680
Speaker 1: full range of pack hunting techniques, and also where I

430
00:24:40,720 --> 00:24:43,160
Speaker 1: don't know if we mentioned this either, but there are

431
00:24:43,200 --> 00:24:46,239
Speaker 1: a lot of whales in these waters. Like when I

432
00:24:46,320 --> 00:24:48,639
Speaker 1: was out there, you'd see just they were everywhere. There

433
00:24:48,640 --> 00:24:51,680
Speaker 1: were just hundreds of them. In fact, I saw they

434
00:24:51,760 --> 00:24:56,240
Speaker 1: had a tallied count even at the Whale center there

435
00:24:56,840 --> 00:24:59,440
Speaker 1: and the figures I'm pulling this up on my phone.

436
00:24:59,440 --> 00:25:03,120
Speaker 1: I took a picture of it. But the total count

437
00:25:03,480 --> 00:25:06,560
Speaker 1: for mothers with babies was three hundred and twenty two.

438
00:25:06,680 --> 00:25:09,879
Speaker 1: The lonely whale count was two eighty seven. So like

439
00:25:09,960 --> 00:25:11,560
Speaker 1: this is just the count. It was like nine hundred

440
00:25:11,560 --> 00:25:16,119
Speaker 1: and thirty one whales already during that breeding season. So

441
00:25:17,520 --> 00:25:20,680
Speaker 1: another reason I guess to tread carefully. If you're an orca,

442
00:25:21,320 --> 00:25:23,000
Speaker 1: you know you're going to go into this area where

443
00:25:23,000 --> 00:25:25,720
Speaker 1: you can't use all of your tactics, and there are

444
00:25:25,800 --> 00:25:28,760
Speaker 1: tons of whales that, as we mentioned, may work together

445
00:25:28,840 --> 00:25:32,200
Speaker 1: against you if you present yourself as a threat. Right,

446
00:25:32,800 --> 00:25:35,320
Speaker 1: But that doesn't mean they don't know about these lagoons.

447
00:25:35,320 --> 00:25:37,720
Speaker 1: That don't mean they don't occasionally even venture in on

448
00:25:37,760 --> 00:25:40,639
Speaker 1: a scouting mission. They're out there beyond the limits of

449
00:25:40,640 --> 00:25:44,840
Speaker 1: the lagoons more or less waiting because again, as Carboning

450
00:25:44,880 --> 00:25:47,560
Speaker 1: points out, the orca choose to strike quote when natural

451
00:25:47,600 --> 00:25:50,280
Speaker 1: features tip the balance in their favor. All right, So

452
00:25:50,400 --> 00:25:53,320
Speaker 1: but eventually it's time to head north again. These they

453
00:25:53,320 --> 00:25:55,720
Speaker 1: haven't been feeding. Everyone needs to get back to those

454
00:25:55,720 --> 00:25:59,520
Speaker 1: feeding grounds. So first, all the whales except mothers and

455
00:25:59,560 --> 00:26:02,360
Speaker 1: cows if they tend to take the more direct route

456
00:26:02,400 --> 00:26:05,000
Speaker 1: that has brought them there. So for instance, if there's

457
00:26:05,040 --> 00:26:07,840
Speaker 1: a you know, they stick more or less to the coast,

458
00:26:08,160 --> 00:26:10,520
Speaker 1: but if there's an area where there's like a bay

459
00:26:10,640 --> 00:26:13,639
Speaker 1: or something, or a little inlet, they're more likely to

460
00:26:13,680 --> 00:26:17,119
Speaker 1: just go straight across that inlet instead of hugging the

461
00:26:17,160 --> 00:26:18,879
Speaker 1: coast through all the milks and crannies.

462
00:26:19,320 --> 00:26:21,480
Speaker 2: Right a little more as the crow flies.

463
00:26:21,640 --> 00:26:24,760
Speaker 1: Right, But when the mothers and calves leave, this is

464
00:26:24,880 --> 00:26:27,960
Speaker 1: about one to two months later. The calves have grown

465
00:26:28,040 --> 00:26:33,840
Speaker 1: stronger on milk, and it's they're far more prepared than

466
00:26:33,840 --> 00:26:36,199
Speaker 1: they were to head out into these dangerous waters. But

467
00:26:36,440 --> 00:26:38,360
Speaker 1: it ends up also being a longer trip for them

468
00:26:38,359 --> 00:26:40,560
Speaker 1: because they are going to stick closer to the shore.

469
00:26:41,119 --> 00:26:43,600
Speaker 1: They are going to travel around all the contours of

470
00:26:43,600 --> 00:26:47,919
Speaker 1: the shore as much as possible, rather than crossing or

471
00:26:47,960 --> 00:26:50,840
Speaker 1: cutting corners. And I think it's pretty obvious why.

472
00:26:51,320 --> 00:26:53,280
Speaker 2: Right, Because, as we discussed last time, one of the

473
00:26:53,280 --> 00:26:57,000
Speaker 2: main anti predator strategies of the gray whale trying to

474
00:26:57,080 --> 00:26:59,800
Speaker 2: get away from an orca attack or orca harassment is

475
00:26:59,840 --> 00:27:04,240
Speaker 2: to retreat into the shallows, where the orcas certainly can't

476
00:27:04,280 --> 00:27:07,640
Speaker 2: attack effectively and often won't even try to follow right.

477
00:27:07,800 --> 00:27:09,719
Speaker 1: So for this reason, they tend to stick within two

478
00:27:09,800 --> 00:27:12,000
Speaker 1: hundred meters or about six hundred and fifty six feet

479
00:27:12,000 --> 00:27:15,040
Speaker 1: of the shore, often moving through celt beds now. This

480
00:27:15,200 --> 00:27:18,639
Speaker 1: is definitely the most dangerous part of the whole migration cycle,

481
00:27:18,680 --> 00:27:22,720
Speaker 1: though in general the return trip, because the calves have

482
00:27:22,920 --> 00:27:25,000
Speaker 1: had a month or two to grow and gain strength,

483
00:27:25,040 --> 00:27:28,520
Speaker 1: but they are still at their most vulnerable during this leg.

484
00:27:29,600 --> 00:27:32,399
Speaker 1: So you know, the mothers that are protecting them have

485
00:27:32,560 --> 00:27:36,879
Speaker 1: not fed in months, and then increasingly as they move north,

486
00:27:37,000 --> 00:27:39,520
Speaker 1: I mean, they're also going to grow a little bit

487
00:27:39,520 --> 00:27:42,199
Speaker 1: weaker they've only had the milk to feed off of.

488
00:27:42,920 --> 00:27:44,960
Speaker 1: And then again, the orca are going to strike when

489
00:27:45,000 --> 00:27:48,000
Speaker 1: conditions are most optimal for them. And generally there are

490
00:27:48,200 --> 00:27:52,720
Speaker 1: two major known attack spots along the journey attack hot spots,

491
00:27:52,720 --> 00:27:54,919
Speaker 1: as the literature refers to them. One of them is

492
00:27:54,960 --> 00:28:00,359
Speaker 1: Monterey Bay in California, and the other is Alaska's Unimak Pass.

493
00:28:00,400 --> 00:28:03,320
Speaker 1: Is the most popular of the two, and this has

494
00:28:03,359 --> 00:28:05,000
Speaker 1: to do with the fact that both the mothers and

495
00:28:05,000 --> 00:28:07,719
Speaker 1: the calves are kind of an optimal weakness here. This

496
00:28:07,800 --> 00:28:11,080
Speaker 1: is further north on the return trip, so like everything

497
00:28:11,160 --> 00:28:13,480
Speaker 1: is tipping in favor of the orca at this point,

498
00:28:14,000 --> 00:28:15,440
Speaker 1: and so a number are just going to be picked

499
00:28:15,480 --> 00:28:17,360
Speaker 1: off during this period. That's just how it goes. That's

500
00:28:17,400 --> 00:28:21,920
Speaker 1: the cycle of predation. But enough are going to reach

501
00:28:22,160 --> 00:28:25,399
Speaker 1: those northern waters, and at that point this whole cycle

502
00:28:25,440 --> 00:28:28,399
Speaker 1: begins again. They reach the northern waters, it's time to feed,

503
00:28:28,680 --> 00:28:32,919
Speaker 1: to gain strength, to fatten up, and the whole cycle continues.

504
00:28:33,320 --> 00:28:35,679
Speaker 1: And of course part of this whole cycle is the

505
00:28:35,720 --> 00:28:40,000
Speaker 1: barnacles because the barnacle. Again, those calves are born without

506
00:28:40,040 --> 00:28:43,080
Speaker 1: the barnacles, but those barnacles will grow. The life cycle

507
00:28:43,080 --> 00:28:45,479
Speaker 1: of the barnacles is tied up with the life cycle

508
00:28:45,520 --> 00:28:47,520
Speaker 1: and the travels of these whales.

509
00:28:47,640 --> 00:28:50,280
Speaker 2: That's right. We are never without our barnacles, are we,

510
00:28:50,320 --> 00:28:54,840
Speaker 2: whether metaphorical or literal. So grey whales, just to do

511
00:28:54,880 --> 00:28:57,959
Speaker 2: a quick refresher on our previous discussions about whales and

512
00:28:58,040 --> 00:29:02,080
Speaker 2: whale barnacles, gray whales and other species such as humpbacks

513
00:29:02,120 --> 00:29:06,160
Speaker 2: and so forth, are regularly found carrying a large load

514
00:29:06,320 --> 00:29:10,480
Speaker 2: of barnacles. And a barnacle is a filter feeding crustationan

515
00:29:10,520 --> 00:29:13,840
Speaker 2: It's kind of like a tiny shrimp that is stationary

516
00:29:13,960 --> 00:29:16,920
Speaker 2: for the adult portion of its life. So a barnacle

517
00:29:16,960 --> 00:29:20,160
Speaker 2: will generally swim around as a larvae, as a youngling,

518
00:29:20,680 --> 00:29:24,320
Speaker 2: and it will find a suitable substrate, then cement its

519
00:29:24,440 --> 00:29:27,760
Speaker 2: head to that substrate and then build a hard shell

520
00:29:27,800 --> 00:29:31,840
Speaker 2: out of calcium carbonate plates. And these shells can take

521
00:29:31,880 --> 00:29:34,120
Speaker 2: many different forms. They can look like anything from a

522
00:29:34,160 --> 00:29:37,920
Speaker 2: concrete pumpkin to a little volcano. And then they live

523
00:29:37,960 --> 00:29:40,840
Speaker 2: by filter feeding. They wave these little legs called a

524
00:29:41,040 --> 00:29:44,160
Speaker 2: cyri out in the water to catch bits of plankton

525
00:29:44,200 --> 00:29:47,440
Speaker 2: and pull them in and eat them. Some species of

526
00:29:47,480 --> 00:29:51,720
Speaker 2: barnacle specialize in living on the bodies of whales, and

527
00:29:51,760 --> 00:29:54,160
Speaker 2: this is of course great for the barnacle because it

528
00:29:54,200 --> 00:29:58,000
Speaker 2: provides a steady flow of water to feed from. Barnacles.

529
00:29:58,040 --> 00:30:01,760
Speaker 2: Often when they're not on whale, many barnacle species try

530
00:30:01,760 --> 00:30:04,760
Speaker 2: to like find a spot in the intertidal zone where

531
00:30:04,800 --> 00:30:06,880
Speaker 2: the tides are going to be moving waters over them

532
00:30:06,960 --> 00:30:09,680
Speaker 2: in and out all day, because they need moving water

533
00:30:09,760 --> 00:30:11,920
Speaker 2: to help catch their food. To bring food to them.

534
00:30:12,240 --> 00:30:13,719
Speaker 2: I think the way we put it was that they

535
00:30:13,760 --> 00:30:18,200
Speaker 2: need high foot traffic areas. So latching onto a whale

536
00:30:18,240 --> 00:30:20,240
Speaker 2: is a great adaptation. That's going to have water flowing

537
00:30:20,240 --> 00:30:23,280
Speaker 2: over you all the time as the whale swims. But

538
00:30:23,440 --> 00:30:26,680
Speaker 2: also it's very helpful in that it provides protection from

539
00:30:26,920 --> 00:30:30,400
Speaker 2: predators and you can see some evidence of this in

540
00:30:30,480 --> 00:30:33,440
Speaker 2: the size that whale barnacles grow to, and in the

541
00:30:33,440 --> 00:30:38,240
Speaker 2: fact that they often have a shell or plate design

542
00:30:38,320 --> 00:30:42,160
Speaker 2: that is less defensive looking, like they close less completely

543
00:30:42,800 --> 00:30:45,880
Speaker 2: and often have more fleshy bits just kind of poking

544
00:30:45,960 --> 00:30:50,120
Speaker 2: out all the time. So this relationship definitely helps the barnacles.

545
00:30:50,160 --> 00:30:53,360
Speaker 2: But how does it affect the whales. That's not entirely clear.

546
00:30:53,640 --> 00:30:56,080
Speaker 2: We talked about some arguments several different ways in the

547
00:30:56,120 --> 00:30:59,240
Speaker 2: previous episode. It may hurt the whales by causing drag

548
00:30:59,360 --> 00:31:03,040
Speaker 2: during swim This would of course reduce swimming speed and

549
00:31:03,080 --> 00:31:06,600
Speaker 2: efficiency for the whale. It might possibly also help the

550
00:31:06,600 --> 00:31:09,640
Speaker 2: whale in some cases by providing kind of armor plating

551
00:31:09,800 --> 00:31:14,800
Speaker 2: for violent encounters with orcas or intraspecific aggression between say,

552
00:31:14,840 --> 00:31:19,240
Speaker 2: male humpbacks during mating season, but that's not certain. That's

553
00:31:19,240 --> 00:31:21,640
Speaker 2: a maybe. But whatever the effect on the whales, it

554
00:31:21,720 --> 00:31:25,479
Speaker 2: is normal to find gray whales covered in hundreds of

555
00:31:25,640 --> 00:31:29,080
Speaker 2: pounds of barnacles by adulthood, so they've got a bunch

556
00:31:29,120 --> 00:31:31,520
Speaker 2: of barnacles on there. In fact, grey whales have a

557
00:31:31,520 --> 00:31:35,800
Speaker 2: particular specialist type of barnacle that is unique to them

558
00:31:36,240 --> 00:31:40,280
Speaker 2: called cryptoleapos RAKIANECTI. So that's the background. But I wanted

559
00:31:40,280 --> 00:31:42,760
Speaker 2: to come back to barnacles because I was reading a

560
00:31:42,920 --> 00:31:47,560
Speaker 2: really interesting article in Hakai magazine by an author named

561
00:31:47,920 --> 00:31:51,440
Speaker 2: Mara Grunbaum. This was published in November twenty twenty one,

562
00:31:51,480 --> 00:31:55,520
Speaker 2: and the article is called what Whale Barnacles Know. Very

563
00:31:55,560 --> 00:31:58,080
Speaker 2: interesting article worth looking up and reading in full, but

564
00:31:58,120 --> 00:32:00,600
Speaker 2: I just wanted to mention a few elements from it

565
00:32:00,640 --> 00:32:05,080
Speaker 2: that caught my attention. So one thing I don't think

566
00:32:05,120 --> 00:32:07,640
Speaker 2: I fully clocked when we talked about whale barnacles in

567
00:32:07,680 --> 00:32:11,160
Speaker 2: the previous episode is how big some of them get.

568
00:32:11,360 --> 00:32:14,680
Speaker 2: Was some species of whale barnacles grow very large compared

569
00:32:14,720 --> 00:32:18,440
Speaker 2: to most barnacles you would find attached to stationary surfaces.

570
00:32:19,480 --> 00:32:22,280
Speaker 2: The article here compares them at the upper end to

571
00:32:22,440 --> 00:32:25,480
Speaker 2: several things. Compares them to the size of a coffee mug,

572
00:32:25,880 --> 00:32:28,560
Speaker 2: a tennis ball, or a clementine orange.

573
00:32:28,800 --> 00:32:29,000
Speaker 1: Rob.

574
00:32:29,040 --> 00:32:32,440
Speaker 2: I don't know how big the barnacles on the gray

575
00:32:32,480 --> 00:32:35,120
Speaker 2: whales you saw were, but some of these photos I've

576
00:32:35,160 --> 00:32:38,680
Speaker 2: now seen with other objects for scale makes you realize, like, wow,

577
00:32:38,720 --> 00:32:40,080
Speaker 2: those are some beasts.

578
00:32:40,320 --> 00:32:42,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean the ones I saw were pretty large.

579
00:32:42,120 --> 00:32:44,520
Speaker 1: And then of course you would. You would sometimes see

580
00:32:44,520 --> 00:32:46,720
Speaker 1: them clump together as well, so that kind of adds

581
00:32:46,760 --> 00:32:49,720
Speaker 1: to the feeling. But individually, yeah, some of them are

582
00:32:49,760 --> 00:32:58,880
Speaker 1: quite large.

583
00:33:00,440 --> 00:33:04,080
Speaker 2: So there's one fact that is offhandly alluded to in

584
00:33:04,120 --> 00:33:06,040
Speaker 2: this article that I hadn't come across before, and it

585
00:33:06,080 --> 00:33:07,800
Speaker 2: made me want to do some digging because I found

586
00:33:07,840 --> 00:33:12,720
Speaker 2: it fascinating. But there is a passage where Grunbaum writes, quote,

587
00:33:13,160 --> 00:33:16,680
Speaker 2: these unbudging appendages speaking of whale barnacles, of course, which

588
00:33:16,720 --> 00:33:20,040
Speaker 2: colonize a dozen odd different whale species, latch on so

589
00:33:20,240 --> 00:33:23,440
Speaker 2: tightly that they are practically part of the whale's skin.

590
00:33:24,080 --> 00:33:27,520
Speaker 2: As a result, they were carried into caves by Southern

591
00:33:27,560 --> 00:33:31,360
Speaker 2: African people who foraged washed up whale meat one hundred

592
00:33:31,400 --> 00:33:34,880
Speaker 2: and sixty four thousand years ago. So WHOA, that's an

593
00:33:34,880 --> 00:33:39,440
Speaker 2: image prehistoric people foraging whale meat. I don't know why

594
00:33:39,480 --> 00:33:42,560
Speaker 2: I wouldn't have imagined that happened before, but it totally

595
00:33:42,600 --> 00:33:45,840
Speaker 2: makes sense. So I decided to look up the primary

596
00:33:45,880 --> 00:33:48,960
Speaker 2: evidence for this. I believe the author here is citing

597
00:33:49,280 --> 00:33:52,520
Speaker 2: some findings from a place called the Pinnacle Point Cave

598
00:33:52,640 --> 00:33:56,720
Speaker 2: thirteen b in South Africa, in which fragments of whale

599
00:33:56,720 --> 00:34:00,040
Speaker 2: barnacle were found, but this is not in fact the

600
00:34:00,120 --> 00:34:04,560
Speaker 2: only case of whale barnacles being found away from the

601
00:34:04,600 --> 00:34:09,560
Speaker 2: ocean in caves inhabited by prehistoric peoples, giving evidence that

602
00:34:09,600 --> 00:34:13,120
Speaker 2: these people foraged whale meat. Another example I came across

603
00:34:13,320 --> 00:34:16,960
Speaker 2: was a cave in Spain. This was written about in

604
00:34:17,000 --> 00:34:21,160
Speaker 2: a paper by Esteban Alvarez Fernandez at All published in

605
00:34:21,200 --> 00:34:25,239
Speaker 2: the Quaternary Journal in twenty fourteen. Papers called occurrence of

606
00:34:25,320 --> 00:34:31,000
Speaker 2: whale barnacles in Nergia Cave Malaga, Southern Spain indirect evidence

607
00:34:31,000 --> 00:34:34,640
Speaker 2: of whale consumption by humans in the Upper Magdalenian and

608
00:34:34,680 --> 00:34:38,920
Speaker 2: the authors write, quote whale barnacles indicate that maritime oriented

609
00:34:39,000 --> 00:34:43,080
Speaker 2: forager human groups found stranded whales on the coast and

610
00:34:43,160 --> 00:34:45,720
Speaker 2: because of the size and weight of the large bones,

611
00:34:45,760 --> 00:34:49,760
Speaker 2: transported only certain pieces such as skin, blubber and meat

612
00:34:50,120 --> 00:34:53,400
Speaker 2: to the caves where they were consumed. And so we

613
00:34:53,520 --> 00:34:57,360
Speaker 2: have this evidence of consumption of whale flesh soft parts

614
00:34:57,360 --> 00:34:59,920
Speaker 2: of whale flesh, not the bones in these human caves,

615
00:35:00,040 --> 00:35:02,520
Speaker 2: because the barnacles are in there. How else would the

616
00:35:02,560 --> 00:35:05,719
Speaker 2: barnacles get into these human inhabited caves. They're stuck to

617
00:35:05,719 --> 00:35:10,359
Speaker 2: whales all the time. So because many whale barnacles are

618
00:35:10,360 --> 00:35:13,600
Speaker 2: adapted to a particular host species, you can also tell

619
00:35:13,960 --> 00:35:16,840
Speaker 2: in these cases what type of whale meat the people

620
00:35:16,880 --> 00:35:20,000
Speaker 2: were eating, and in this case it was two different

621
00:35:20,080 --> 00:35:23,719
Speaker 2: species of barnacle that are found on the southern right whale.

622
00:35:24,080 --> 00:35:27,359
Speaker 2: That's also interesting because these whales are only found much

623
00:35:27,400 --> 00:35:30,880
Speaker 2: farther south today. But the author's right quote because of

624
00:35:30,960 --> 00:35:34,719
Speaker 2: Antarctic sea ice expansion during the last glacial period, these

625
00:35:34,760 --> 00:35:38,240
Speaker 2: whales could have migrated to the northern hemisphere and reached

626
00:35:38,360 --> 00:35:39,200
Speaker 2: southern Spain.

627
00:35:39,680 --> 00:35:41,080
Speaker 1: Oh wow, that's fascinating.

628
00:35:41,520 --> 00:35:44,080
Speaker 2: So these are not grey whales, But because grey whales

629
00:35:44,080 --> 00:35:47,759
Speaker 2: also have associated barnacle species, you could, by the same

630
00:35:47,800 --> 00:35:52,520
Speaker 2: method potentially identify ancient ranges of gray whales by looking

631
00:35:52,520 --> 00:35:57,040
Speaker 2: for evidence of their dedicated barnacles. And there's another way

632
00:35:57,400 --> 00:36:00,200
Speaker 2: this article gets into that. You could look at the

633
00:36:00,360 --> 00:36:03,400
Speaker 2: prehistory of whales that look at the ancient movements of

634
00:36:03,400 --> 00:36:06,840
Speaker 2: whales by looking at barnacles. I'll get to that in

635
00:36:06,880 --> 00:36:08,520
Speaker 2: a second, but first I wanted to mention a couple

636
00:36:08,560 --> 00:36:12,920
Speaker 2: of other interesting facts. So one thing is this article

637
00:36:13,000 --> 00:36:15,560
Speaker 2: just describes some of like the difficulties in the research

638
00:36:15,600 --> 00:36:19,839
Speaker 2: on whale barnacles, like it's hard to acquire whale barnacles

639
00:36:19,880 --> 00:36:23,120
Speaker 2: alive and study them, say, to study their reproduction in

640
00:36:23,200 --> 00:36:26,680
Speaker 2: the lab, for obvious reasons and for less obvious ones.

641
00:36:27,160 --> 00:36:30,000
Speaker 2: The obvious reasons would be like they are attached to

642
00:36:30,040 --> 00:36:33,920
Speaker 2: living whales, and the less obvious reasons would be because

643
00:36:34,120 --> 00:36:38,080
Speaker 2: these barnacles are not as they're not as hardy for

644
00:36:38,320 --> 00:36:41,480
Speaker 2: taking them out of their natural environment because, for example,

645
00:36:41,680 --> 00:36:45,759
Speaker 2: these whale barnacles typically can't seal themselves shut completely, so

646
00:36:45,800 --> 00:36:48,960
Speaker 2: they can't fully close the door to keep the water

647
00:36:49,080 --> 00:36:52,239
Speaker 2: inside when you remove them from their original context. So

648
00:36:52,360 --> 00:36:54,399
Speaker 2: like you find out a whale washed up on a beach,

649
00:36:54,760 --> 00:36:58,040
Speaker 2: the whale barnacles on it will typically die pretty quick,

650
00:36:59,440 --> 00:37:02,680
Speaker 2: and so no when the article stresses how nobody really

651
00:37:02,680 --> 00:37:05,000
Speaker 2: has figured out yet the right way to care for

652
00:37:05,160 --> 00:37:08,640
Speaker 2: and preserve the lives of these animals once they are

653
00:37:08,680 --> 00:37:11,919
Speaker 2: taken off of the whale they belong to. But there's

654
00:37:11,920 --> 00:37:15,000
Speaker 2: another thing I wanted to emphasize grin Bond describes, which

655
00:37:15,040 --> 00:37:19,200
Speaker 2: is the kind of the more body horror aspect of

656
00:37:19,280 --> 00:37:23,799
Speaker 2: the boundary point between whale and barnacle, which is maybe

657
00:37:23,880 --> 00:37:27,399
Speaker 2: kind of a gray area. It is like where one

658
00:37:27,480 --> 00:37:31,920
Speaker 2: begins and the other ends. Grindam writes, quote, each of

659
00:37:31,960 --> 00:37:35,360
Speaker 2: these barnacles has a shell structure specially evolved to anchor

660
00:37:35,400 --> 00:37:40,040
Speaker 2: itself into its host's flesh. Many species have chambers within

661
00:37:40,160 --> 00:37:45,160
Speaker 2: their wall plates into which prongs of whale skin grow upward,

662
00:37:45,680 --> 00:37:50,680
Speaker 2: strengthening the barnacle's grip. And this further explains actually, like

663
00:37:50,920 --> 00:37:55,000
Speaker 2: why it is hard to access living whale barnacles for research.

664
00:37:55,360 --> 00:37:57,400
Speaker 2: It's not just a question of kind of like popping

665
00:37:57,400 --> 00:38:00,400
Speaker 2: one of them off. It would generally require cutting into

666
00:38:00,440 --> 00:38:03,920
Speaker 2: the whale's flesh to separate the barnacle from the whale.

667
00:38:04,360 --> 00:38:06,719
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, I mean this, you know, comes back

668
00:38:06,719 --> 00:38:09,160
Speaker 1: to like why did the gray whales have their their

669
00:38:09,239 --> 00:38:11,400
Speaker 1: signature appearance, And a lot of it is part of

670
00:38:11,440 --> 00:38:14,040
Speaker 1: it the barnacles, but also like these gray sort of

671
00:38:14,080 --> 00:38:18,080
Speaker 1: sploshes on their body scars from various things, including scars

672
00:38:18,080 --> 00:38:21,400
Speaker 1: from where the barnacles were previously attached.

673
00:38:21,640 --> 00:38:24,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, scars, because they're like, you know, they really

674
00:38:24,680 --> 00:38:27,400
Speaker 2: like grab a hole they get in there. Another thing

675
00:38:27,400 --> 00:38:29,920
Speaker 2: I've read about is that apparently the areas underneath the

676
00:38:29,960 --> 00:38:33,480
Speaker 2: barnacles tend to become depigmented on whale skin, so you

677
00:38:33,520 --> 00:38:35,600
Speaker 2: can often see them by that there there'll be like

678
00:38:35,640 --> 00:38:38,080
Speaker 2: a different shade than the surrounding skin.

679
00:38:38,760 --> 00:38:40,640
Speaker 1: Now we're going about to get into a really interesting

680
00:38:40,680 --> 00:38:43,239
Speaker 1: area here, because you know, the thing about living your

681
00:38:43,280 --> 00:38:47,359
Speaker 1: full life on a migratory large mammal like this is

682
00:38:47,360 --> 00:38:51,799
Speaker 1: that your your life cycle is intrinsically tied to the

683
00:38:51,800 --> 00:38:54,440
Speaker 1: movements in life cycle all of your host species.

684
00:38:54,760 --> 00:38:57,919
Speaker 2: That's right, and partially for this reason, there's so much

685
00:38:57,960 --> 00:39:01,879
Speaker 2: we don't know about the whale barn life cycle. There's

686
00:39:01,920 --> 00:39:04,000
Speaker 2: things we don't know about their cycles and their reproduction.

687
00:39:04,120 --> 00:39:07,280
Speaker 2: They're just hard to study. So they seem to mate

688
00:39:07,320 --> 00:39:11,120
Speaker 2: with other barnacles nearby on the same whale, but they

689
00:39:11,280 --> 00:39:14,239
Speaker 2: wait until the whales go to their coastal breeding and

690
00:39:14,280 --> 00:39:18,520
Speaker 2: calving grounds to release their larvae. And these larvae are

691
00:39:18,800 --> 00:39:22,600
Speaker 2: probably guided by an attraction to a chemical signal that

692
00:39:22,680 --> 00:39:25,680
Speaker 2: helps them find the whale skin. This could be a

693
00:39:25,760 --> 00:39:28,960
Speaker 2: chemical emitted by other barnacles already present. So maybe there's

694
00:39:29,000 --> 00:39:31,520
Speaker 2: kind of a you know, I don't think qorm sensing

695
00:39:31,560 --> 00:39:33,480
Speaker 2: is the right word. That's from different but you know,

696
00:39:33,680 --> 00:39:37,359
Speaker 2: they sense a congregation of their kind, or it could

697
00:39:37,360 --> 00:39:40,440
Speaker 2: be a biosignature from the skin of the whale itself.

698
00:39:40,480 --> 00:39:44,680
Speaker 2: Maybe they're attracted to some kind of signature mammalian molecule.

699
00:39:45,880 --> 00:39:48,680
Speaker 2: They also have to do some crawling around on the

700
00:39:48,680 --> 00:39:52,400
Speaker 2: whale as larvae before they cement themselves down, because you

701
00:39:52,440 --> 00:39:54,880
Speaker 2: don't just go anywhere on the whale. There are favored

702
00:39:55,000 --> 00:39:59,240
Speaker 2: regions of the whale's body, often the forehead, the tail,

703
00:39:59,560 --> 00:40:03,719
Speaker 2: and the the forward facing edges of the flippers, and

704
00:40:03,760 --> 00:40:06,120
Speaker 2: I think this is because it increases their access to

705
00:40:06,160 --> 00:40:10,080
Speaker 2: flowing water and the plankton in it. But finally, there's

706
00:40:10,120 --> 00:40:13,200
Speaker 2: a really big interesting thread in this article that's about

707
00:40:13,400 --> 00:40:18,600
Speaker 2: studying the chemical composition of whale barnacle shells to determine

708
00:40:18,760 --> 00:40:24,720
Speaker 2: where whales travel. So barnacles are, you know, their shell builders.

709
00:40:24,760 --> 00:40:27,720
Speaker 2: They are constantly building up new layers of their calcium

710
00:40:27,760 --> 00:40:32,360
Speaker 2: carbonate plates, and at some point researchers figured out that

711
00:40:32,480 --> 00:40:35,920
Speaker 2: you could look at the layers of these plates kind

712
00:40:35,920 --> 00:40:39,920
Speaker 2: of like tree rings. But by analyzing the ratio of

713
00:40:40,000 --> 00:40:43,759
Speaker 2: oxygen isotopes in each layer, you couldn't just tell, you know,

714
00:40:43,840 --> 00:40:46,440
Speaker 2: it's not just counting the tree rings. You could actually

715
00:40:46,480 --> 00:40:50,080
Speaker 2: say a lot about the properties of the water in

716
00:40:50,120 --> 00:40:53,840
Speaker 2: which each layer was formed. So what was the temperature

717
00:40:53,880 --> 00:40:57,400
Speaker 2: of the water, what was the salinity, et cetera. And

718
00:40:57,680 --> 00:41:02,080
Speaker 2: actually you could then compare that information to things we

719
00:41:02,239 --> 00:41:05,640
Speaker 2: know about different regions of the ocean at different times,

720
00:41:05,680 --> 00:41:10,480
Speaker 2: and this would allow you, by proxy to roughly track

721
00:41:10,640 --> 00:41:14,600
Speaker 2: the migration history of the whale on which a barnacle

722
00:41:14,719 --> 00:41:18,480
Speaker 2: lived by peeling back and analyzing the mini layers of

723
00:41:18,560 --> 00:41:22,440
Speaker 2: its plates. And researchers initially studied this on the shells

724
00:41:22,480 --> 00:41:25,399
Speaker 2: of living or recently living barnacles, but it turns out

725
00:41:25,400 --> 00:41:30,319
Speaker 2: you could even do this with fossilized remains of whale barnacles,

726
00:41:30,800 --> 00:41:33,279
Speaker 2: and by this method you can track the movements not

727
00:41:33,320 --> 00:41:36,520
Speaker 2: only of living whales or recently living whales, but whales

728
00:41:36,520 --> 00:41:40,680
Speaker 2: that lived hundreds of thousands of years ago, and that information,

729
00:41:40,840 --> 00:41:44,879
Speaker 2: in turn can help shed light on unsolved problems in

730
00:41:44,960 --> 00:41:49,640
Speaker 2: whale evolutions, such as when and why did billine whales

731
00:41:49,800 --> 00:41:54,600
Speaker 2: start migrating. Groombamb writes quote One hypothesis suggests that it

732
00:41:54,640 --> 00:41:58,200
Speaker 2: happened around three million years ago, when massive ice sheets

733
00:41:58,480 --> 00:42:02,360
Speaker 2: started spreading across much of the northern hemisphere. The colder

734
00:42:02,400 --> 00:42:05,239
Speaker 2: temperatures would have frozen whales out of some of their

735
00:42:05,280 --> 00:42:09,320
Speaker 2: habitats and put more constraints on where plankton could flourish

736
00:42:09,400 --> 00:42:13,880
Speaker 2: in Earth's oceans, and the patterns that came to exist

737
00:42:13,920 --> 00:42:17,239
Speaker 2: in the locations of these, say food and shelter resources,

738
00:42:17,640 --> 00:42:22,040
Speaker 2: would therefore lead to the establishment of migration patterns over time.

739
00:42:22,200 --> 00:42:24,720
Speaker 2: We don't know exactly how it happened, but that's one idea.

740
00:42:25,360 --> 00:42:28,720
Speaker 2: And so it seems like we can now maybe use

741
00:42:29,040 --> 00:42:34,000
Speaker 2: fossilized whale barnacles to get some insight into what those

742
00:42:34,080 --> 00:42:39,279
Speaker 2: ancient patterns of migration were when they changed, and what

743
00:42:39,320 --> 00:42:43,360
Speaker 2: those changes might coincide with, say in the climate sphere.

744
00:42:44,480 --> 00:42:46,799
Speaker 2: And this of course can help shed light on things

745
00:42:46,840 --> 00:42:49,040
Speaker 2: today as well. Doesn't just tell us about the past,

746
00:42:49,120 --> 00:42:54,080
Speaker 2: because understanding when and why ancient whales started changing their

747
00:42:54,120 --> 00:42:58,440
Speaker 2: migratory patterns, for example, in relationship to ocean temperatures and

748
00:42:58,560 --> 00:43:01,680
Speaker 2: sea level and so forth, that could help us understand

749
00:43:01,760 --> 00:43:04,320
Speaker 2: what's likely to happen in the near future with oceans

750
00:43:04,360 --> 00:43:08,480
Speaker 2: being affected by our rapidly heating planet. So anyway, it

751
00:43:08,600 --> 00:43:11,120
Speaker 2: was just a few notes from there, but that article

752
00:43:11,239 --> 00:43:14,439
Speaker 2: What Whale Barnacles Know very interesting worth a read.

753
00:43:14,719 --> 00:43:16,719
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I mean it's interesting to think about. It's

754
00:43:16,719 --> 00:43:19,160
Speaker 1: easy to dismiss the barnacles. It's just this hanger on,

755
00:43:19,440 --> 00:43:22,239
Speaker 1: just this exo parasite of the whale, but there's so

756
00:43:22,320 --> 00:43:26,600
Speaker 1: much information tied up in the barnacle about the host species. Well,

757
00:43:26,600 --> 00:43:29,400
Speaker 1: this has this has been a really fun journey. I've

758
00:43:29,440 --> 00:43:32,439
Speaker 1: really enjoyed getting to dive in to researching the gray

759
00:43:32,480 --> 00:43:35,719
Speaker 1: whale after getting to have this experience with them. I

760
00:43:35,760 --> 00:43:37,919
Speaker 1: guess some people would probably do this in reverse order

761
00:43:38,040 --> 00:43:40,120
Speaker 1: to do their research and then have the experience, but

762
00:43:40,200 --> 00:43:42,600
Speaker 1: for whatever reason, I end up doing it the other

763
00:43:42,640 --> 00:43:45,440
Speaker 1: way around most of the time. But I enjoyed it.

764
00:43:45,440 --> 00:43:47,080
Speaker 1: I kind of that's one way to sort of draw

765
00:43:47,120 --> 00:43:48,560
Speaker 1: out these experiences.

766
00:43:48,800 --> 00:43:50,200
Speaker 2: Oh, I don't think it's a bad way at all,

767
00:43:50,239 --> 00:43:52,040
Speaker 2: experience and then reflect. Yeah.

768
00:43:52,120 --> 00:43:55,640
Speaker 1: Yeah. By the way, I've cited several authors and sources

769
00:43:55,640 --> 00:43:57,600
Speaker 1: that were helpful in the research for these episodes, but

770
00:43:57,640 --> 00:43:59,799
Speaker 1: I'd also like to throw in some hefty thanks to

771
00:43:59,800 --> 00:44:04,000
Speaker 1: the local guides at the Ojo de Labre Lagoon, some

772
00:44:04,040 --> 00:44:06,279
Speaker 1: of which have been doing this sort of guide work

773
00:44:06,320 --> 00:44:09,080
Speaker 1: every year for something like thirty five years, as well

774
00:44:09,160 --> 00:44:12,680
Speaker 1: as the international tour guides that I had there, Keith

775
00:44:12,840 --> 00:44:17,040
Speaker 1: Hassan and Donna in particular. Everyone was delightful and full

776
00:44:17,040 --> 00:44:19,960
Speaker 1: of wonderful facts and observations about the whales. And I

777
00:44:20,000 --> 00:44:22,160
Speaker 1: also really enjoyed the company of the folks that my

778
00:44:22,200 --> 00:44:24,319
Speaker 1: family toured with. In case any of you out there

779
00:44:24,320 --> 00:44:26,520
Speaker 1: having to be listening, the great thing about a trip

780
00:44:26,600 --> 00:44:28,919
Speaker 1: like this is that no one is that is there

781
00:44:29,040 --> 00:44:31,960
Speaker 1: is just kind of sort of into wales like everyone.

782
00:44:32,280 --> 00:44:35,840
Speaker 1: At least in my experience, everyone was really excited, really

783
00:44:35,880 --> 00:44:40,880
Speaker 1: into them, and really compassionate for them. So yeah, just

784
00:44:41,200 --> 00:44:43,120
Speaker 1: a shout out if should any of you be listening.

785
00:44:43,680 --> 00:44:45,120
Speaker 1: All right, We're going to go ahead and close the

786
00:44:45,160 --> 00:44:47,440
Speaker 1: book on this one, but we'll be back with more

787
00:44:47,480 --> 00:44:49,799
Speaker 1: episodes next week. Just a reminder that Stuff to Blow

788
00:44:49,800 --> 00:44:52,560
Speaker 1: Your Mind is primarily a science podcast, with core episodes

789
00:44:52,600 --> 00:44:55,239
Speaker 1: publishing on Tuesdays and Thursdays, but on Mondays we do

790
00:44:55,280 --> 00:44:58,640
Speaker 1: listener mail. On Wednesday's a short form artifact or monsterfect episode,

791
00:44:58,680 --> 00:45:01,400
Speaker 1: and on Fridays Weird House Cinema. That's our time to

792
00:45:01,400 --> 00:45:03,640
Speaker 1: set aside most serious concerns and just talk about a

793
00:45:03,680 --> 00:45:04,360
Speaker 1: strange film.

794
00:45:04,560 --> 00:45:08,800
Speaker 2: Huge thanks to our audio producer JJ Posway. If you

795
00:45:08,800 --> 00:45:11,160
Speaker 2: would like to get in touch with us with feedback

796
00:45:11,200 --> 00:45:13,840
Speaker 2: on this episode or any other to suggest a topic

797
00:45:13,920 --> 00:45:16,640
Speaker 2: for the future, To share something interesting, or just to

798
00:45:16,680 --> 00:45:19,680
Speaker 2: say hello, you can email us at contact at stuff

799
00:45:19,719 --> 00:45:27,759
Speaker 2: to Blow your Mind dot com.

800
00:45:28,880 --> 00:45:31,799
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801
00:45:31,880 --> 00:45:35,719
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802
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