1 00:00:01,720 --> 00:00:04,400 Speaker 1: Rip Current is a production of iHeart podcasts. 2 00:00:04,559 --> 00:00:07,920 Speaker 2: The views and opinions expressed do not necessarily reflect those 3 00:00:08,000 --> 00:00:10,080 Speaker 2: of the host, producers or parent company. 4 00:00:10,520 --> 00:00:12,320 Speaker 3: Listener discretion is it fived. 5 00:00:16,800 --> 00:00:20,720 Speaker 1: On November twenty fourth, nineteen eighty eight, The Yukaia Journal, 6 00:00:20,920 --> 00:00:24,560 Speaker 1: a local newspaper in Mendocino County, ran a letter to 7 00:00:24,600 --> 00:00:28,040 Speaker 1: the editor from a man named Bill Staley under the 8 00:00:28,040 --> 00:00:33,320 Speaker 1: heading evil Lurks in Ukiah. In the letter, Staley railed 9 00:00:33,360 --> 00:00:38,040 Speaker 1: against the opening of a planned parenthood clinic in Yukaia. Specifically, 10 00:00:38,479 --> 00:00:42,479 Speaker 1: he was angered by their providing abortions. At the end 11 00:00:42,520 --> 00:00:46,160 Speaker 1: of the letter, he encouraged pro life advocates to show 12 00:00:46,240 --> 00:00:48,680 Speaker 1: up at the clinic every Friday afternoon at three point 13 00:00:48,680 --> 00:00:54,120 Speaker 1: thirty for a non violent protest rally. The following day, 14 00:00:54,440 --> 00:00:59,200 Speaker 1: November twenty fifth, one hundred people, roughly split between pro 15 00:00:59,280 --> 00:01:04,040 Speaker 1: life protests and pro choice counter protesters, showed up at 16 00:01:04,040 --> 00:01:09,360 Speaker 1: the clinic. The atmosphere was tense. The pro life side 17 00:01:09,440 --> 00:01:13,320 Speaker 1: was led by Bill Staley, the letter writer. Staley had 18 00:01:13,360 --> 00:01:17,200 Speaker 1: played professional football as a defensive lineman for the Chicago 19 00:01:17,280 --> 00:01:21,759 Speaker 1: Bears and Cincinnati Bengals in the late sixties and early seventies. 20 00:01:22,840 --> 00:01:25,480 Speaker 1: Journalist and filmmaker Steve Talbot. 21 00:01:26,520 --> 00:01:29,600 Speaker 4: He was a very big man. He was an intimidating 22 00:01:29,640 --> 00:01:32,520 Speaker 4: guy when you first met him, that's for sure. And 23 00:01:32,720 --> 00:01:36,720 Speaker 4: he was extremely opposed to abortion. 24 00:01:38,200 --> 00:01:41,680 Speaker 1: This is Bill Staley talking to Talbot in the documentary 25 00:01:42,000 --> 00:01:43,560 Speaker 1: Who Bombed Judy Barry. 26 00:01:44,400 --> 00:01:47,000 Speaker 5: My statistics tell me that one hundred percent of the 27 00:01:47,080 --> 00:01:51,760 Speaker 5: ladies that have abortions have some kind of difficulty down 28 00:01:51,800 --> 00:01:57,920 Speaker 5: the road. Maximum difficulty is nightmares of their sailine saluted 29 00:01:57,960 --> 00:01:59,560 Speaker 5: baby coming out of a garbage scan. 30 00:02:02,400 --> 00:02:04,840 Speaker 4: And you know, he would intimidate women going in for 31 00:02:05,040 --> 00:02:10,040 Speaker 4: pregnancy counseling or medical care or abortions, and a lot 32 00:02:10,080 --> 00:02:13,480 Speaker 4: of people, I think correctly came to the defense of 33 00:02:13,520 --> 00:02:14,120 Speaker 4: these women. 34 00:02:15,720 --> 00:02:19,200 Speaker 1: Among the counter protesters that Friday were Judy Berry and 35 00:02:19,280 --> 00:02:23,560 Speaker 1: Darryl Turney. They were outraged by the intimidation of women 36 00:02:23,720 --> 00:02:27,040 Speaker 1: trying to access the clinic. They arrived at the plan 37 00:02:27,240 --> 00:02:33,760 Speaker 1: to be non violent but provocative. Author and investigator David helvarg. 38 00:02:34,480 --> 00:02:38,440 Speaker 6: Judy and Darryl Chaney were self felt folk singers kind 39 00:02:38,480 --> 00:02:40,400 Speaker 6: of you know what he got through your phill oaks, 40 00:02:40,440 --> 00:02:43,320 Speaker 6: but maybe not quite with the lyrical polish. They were 41 00:02:43,440 --> 00:02:47,760 Speaker 6: doing some outrageous singing at this anti abortion rally in 42 00:02:47,760 --> 00:02:50,040 Speaker 6: front of the local clinic. They were pretty outraged at 43 00:02:50,040 --> 00:02:52,920 Speaker 6: what these people were doing in terms of blocking women's 44 00:02:52,960 --> 00:02:54,120 Speaker 6: access to healthcare. 45 00:02:54,760 --> 00:02:57,640 Speaker 5: There was a whole lot of noise coming out of 46 00:02:57,680 --> 00:03:01,440 Speaker 5: Judy Barry, and she had a bullhorn and she was 47 00:03:01,760 --> 00:03:07,840 Speaker 5: spouting all kinds of very gross things. They had a 48 00:03:07,880 --> 00:03:11,720 Speaker 5: little choir they put together with songs that would make 49 00:03:11,720 --> 00:03:15,280 Speaker 5: a normal person sick, and they were singing them with 50 00:03:15,600 --> 00:03:16,880 Speaker 5: glee and revelry. 51 00:03:18,520 --> 00:03:22,760 Speaker 7: They even wrote a song called will the Fetus Be Aborted? 52 00:03:23,280 --> 00:03:25,560 Speaker 7: Sung to Will the Circle Be Unbroken? 53 00:03:26,880 --> 00:03:30,680 Speaker 1: Longtime Earth First activist Andy Caffrey. 54 00:03:31,160 --> 00:03:35,760 Speaker 7: Darryl and Judy wanted to write a song that was 55 00:03:35,800 --> 00:03:39,440 Speaker 7: the equivalent of the big posters of bloody fetuses that 56 00:03:39,560 --> 00:03:43,200 Speaker 7: the Operation Rescue people were called up. And again this 57 00:03:43,240 --> 00:03:46,920 Speaker 7: is part of them trying to become famous. So the 58 00:03:47,000 --> 00:03:52,000 Speaker 7: verses were descriptions of scenes that those people wouldn't like, 59 00:03:52,000 --> 00:03:56,040 Speaker 7: Like Tanya had no abortions, but she had twelve commy babies, 60 00:03:56,360 --> 00:03:57,120 Speaker 7: isn't that great? 61 00:03:57,320 --> 00:03:59,600 Speaker 5: Reggie had kids? 62 00:04:01,200 --> 00:04:08,280 Speaker 6: And that a barge watchie job, that Christian show her bloody. 63 00:04:08,040 --> 00:04:08,640 Speaker 8: Me And. 64 00:04:16,160 --> 00:04:18,640 Speaker 7: So they wanted it to be really insulting. In fact, 65 00:04:18,839 --> 00:04:22,240 Speaker 7: Daryl said that they wrote the song so that when 66 00:04:22,279 --> 00:04:25,479 Speaker 7: they sang it at their demonstration to defend the Planned 67 00:04:25,520 --> 00:04:28,960 Speaker 7: Parenthood Office, that the Operation Rescue people would get so 68 00:04:29,240 --> 00:04:31,560 Speaker 7: pissed off at them that one of them would grab 69 00:04:31,720 --> 00:04:35,080 Speaker 7: Daryl's guitar and he bought like a twenty dollars guitar 70 00:04:35,240 --> 00:04:38,680 Speaker 7: for this purpose, and smash it over his head and 71 00:04:39,000 --> 00:04:41,080 Speaker 7: get a UPI wire photo out of it. 72 00:04:41,720 --> 00:04:44,880 Speaker 9: We were really outrageous at this demonstration. In retrospect, I 73 00:04:45,000 --> 00:04:45,920 Speaker 9: probably would have done. 74 00:04:45,760 --> 00:04:49,440 Speaker 1: It differently, but this is Judy talking about the event 75 00:04:49,720 --> 00:04:51,560 Speaker 1: for Steve Talbot's documentary. 76 00:04:52,279 --> 00:04:54,160 Speaker 9: Because of the way that they were acting, we decided 77 00:04:54,160 --> 00:04:56,080 Speaker 9: if they were going to be bullies, we'd show them 78 00:04:56,240 --> 00:04:57,840 Speaker 9: what their tactics. 79 00:04:57,480 --> 00:04:57,800 Speaker 5: Were like. 80 00:05:00,000 --> 00:05:03,160 Speaker 1: The pro life demonstrators would not be provoked to violence. 81 00:05:04,320 --> 00:05:06,839 Speaker 7: It turned out that the Operation Rescue people were trained 82 00:05:06,880 --> 00:05:10,960 Speaker 7: in nonviolence practice just like we were, and so they 83 00:05:11,000 --> 00:05:14,000 Speaker 7: didn't do anything like that. But Judy said that this 84 00:05:14,160 --> 00:05:17,320 Speaker 7: one guy, Bill Staley, I think his name was, that 85 00:05:17,440 --> 00:05:20,880 Speaker 7: when they were singing this song, he was shooting needles 86 00:05:20,960 --> 00:05:22,280 Speaker 7: from his eyes at her. 87 00:05:24,200 --> 00:05:27,400 Speaker 1: According to Andy Caffrey, after the bombing of her car, 88 00:05:28,000 --> 00:05:31,680 Speaker 1: one of the first people that Judy suspected was Bill Staley. 89 00:05:32,800 --> 00:05:36,680 Speaker 1: An anonymous letter sent to a prominent local journalist then 90 00:05:36,839 --> 00:05:41,400 Speaker 1: seemed to further implicate Staley. But it was not that simple, 91 00:05:42,240 --> 00:05:47,240 Speaker 1: and this was just the beginning. I'm Toby Ball and 92 00:05:47,360 --> 00:05:58,320 Speaker 1: this is rip current episode eight, The Lord's Avenger. If 93 00:05:58,360 --> 00:06:01,640 Speaker 1: there's one thing that everyone agreed, it is that there 94 00:06:01,760 --> 00:06:06,000 Speaker 1: was no real law enforcement investigation undertaken once the FBI 95 00:06:06,160 --> 00:06:09,480 Speaker 1: had determined that Judy Berry and Darryl Turney had not 96 00:06:09,720 --> 00:06:13,360 Speaker 1: placed the pipe bomb in their own car. After that 97 00:06:13,480 --> 00:06:18,960 Speaker 1: determination and even before, nothing much happened. Not in Oakland 98 00:06:19,360 --> 00:06:22,480 Speaker 1: and not in Mendocino County, which are the two places 99 00:06:22,600 --> 00:06:24,640 Speaker 1: where the bomb was most likely planeted. 100 00:06:25,760 --> 00:06:29,640 Speaker 3: The MENDO authorities have never looked into it. Most of 101 00:06:29,680 --> 00:06:32,000 Speaker 3: the MENDO authorities on the law enforcement side did not 102 00:06:32,320 --> 00:06:34,520 Speaker 3: like her at first, did not like Judy Barry, did 103 00:06:34,600 --> 00:06:35,400 Speaker 3: not like any of it. 104 00:06:37,200 --> 00:06:41,960 Speaker 1: Editor of the Anderson Valley Advertiser, Mark Scaramella. 105 00:06:42,560 --> 00:06:44,720 Speaker 3: Not that that should have mattered, but to me, it 106 00:06:44,920 --> 00:06:49,040 Speaker 3: obviously did. And in their opinion by the ones, the 107 00:06:49,120 --> 00:06:52,480 Speaker 3: law enforcement people I know locally who have an opinion 108 00:06:52,560 --> 00:06:54,960 Speaker 3: on the subject of all thought that you know, she 109 00:06:55,120 --> 00:06:56,960 Speaker 3: was carrying her own bomb and it went off, and 110 00:06:57,360 --> 00:06:59,080 Speaker 3: so there's no there's no crime. 111 00:07:01,240 --> 00:07:06,040 Speaker 1: With law enforcement seemingly uninterested, Steve Talbot and David Helvarg, 112 00:07:06,360 --> 00:07:10,240 Speaker 1: who we've already heard from, undertook their own investigation right 113 00:07:10,320 --> 00:07:14,400 Speaker 1: after the bombing. The result was the documentary Who Bombed 114 00:07:14,480 --> 00:07:18,160 Speaker 1: Judy Barry, which was aired in nineteen ninety one by 115 00:07:18,200 --> 00:07:22,240 Speaker 1: the San Francisco public television station WQED. 116 00:07:23,600 --> 00:07:28,680 Speaker 4: Stephen Talbot, David and I did a very serious investigation. 117 00:07:29,280 --> 00:07:31,960 Speaker 4: We took the case as far as we possibly could. 118 00:07:32,680 --> 00:07:39,080 Speaker 4: We suggested who might be worthy of further investigation. We 119 00:07:39,280 --> 00:07:42,840 Speaker 4: did not solve the case. We did not solve the case. 120 00:07:42,880 --> 00:07:45,400 Speaker 4: I wish we had been able to, but we didn't. 121 00:07:46,760 --> 00:07:51,080 Speaker 6: David Helvarg, It's interesting that X cops tend to make 122 00:07:51,160 --> 00:07:56,000 Speaker 6: bad private investigators because they go in with this badge 123 00:07:56,040 --> 00:07:58,120 Speaker 6: of authority. They think they can knock on any door 124 00:07:58,160 --> 00:08:01,440 Speaker 6: and make compel people to answer their questions. Nobody has 125 00:08:01,480 --> 00:08:04,080 Speaker 6: to talk to PI, you know, it's completely All you 126 00:08:04,160 --> 00:08:08,200 Speaker 6: can do is use persuasion and make your case. As 127 00:08:08,320 --> 00:08:11,440 Speaker 6: journalists pride investigators, all we could do with the Judy 128 00:08:11,560 --> 00:08:15,360 Speaker 6: Barry bombing was asked questions. We didn't have the authority 129 00:08:15,480 --> 00:08:20,040 Speaker 6: to use search works issues of kenas I paddle Grand Juries. 130 00:08:21,440 --> 00:08:25,480 Speaker 4: We turned up new evidence. We made the strong argument 131 00:08:25,600 --> 00:08:28,760 Speaker 4: that it was not Judy and Darryl's bomb. We kind 132 00:08:28,800 --> 00:08:33,559 Speaker 4: of defanged the FBI and Oakland Police Department case. 133 00:08:34,760 --> 00:08:37,680 Speaker 6: If law enforcement had done their job, I'm pretty convinced 134 00:08:37,760 --> 00:08:39,680 Speaker 6: that the actual bomber would. 135 00:08:39,440 --> 00:08:39,960 Speaker 5: Have been caught. 136 00:08:42,440 --> 00:08:45,720 Speaker 1: The most significant piece of evidence in the case came 137 00:08:45,840 --> 00:08:48,920 Speaker 1: in the form of an anonymous letter addressed to Santa 138 00:08:49,000 --> 00:08:53,839 Speaker 1: Rosa Press Democrat reporter Mike Janella. We've heard from Mike 139 00:08:53,920 --> 00:08:54,840 Speaker 1: throughout this season. 140 00:08:56,120 --> 00:09:00,280 Speaker 10: The whole outside media world is focusing on this case, 141 00:09:01,360 --> 00:09:04,760 Speaker 10: and I'm finally getting back to my Press Democrat office 142 00:09:04,800 --> 00:09:07,640 Speaker 10: here in Yucaia. Was like a week later, and the 143 00:09:07,760 --> 00:09:11,640 Speaker 10: day I'm arrived back, I'm sitting at my desk collecting 144 00:09:11,720 --> 00:09:15,319 Speaker 10: my thoughts, trying to figure out what's next, and the 145 00:09:15,440 --> 00:09:18,240 Speaker 10: office person walks in with the day's mail and there 146 00:09:18,440 --> 00:09:22,520 Speaker 10: was the brown envelobe that says, mister Janella. No one 147 00:09:22,600 --> 00:09:26,199 Speaker 10: ever calls me mister. This is a very casual community 148 00:09:26,320 --> 00:09:29,040 Speaker 10: up here, anyway, to make a long story short, and 149 00:09:29,120 --> 00:09:32,120 Speaker 10: I opened it, and initially, I have to be honest, 150 00:09:32,200 --> 00:09:34,800 Speaker 10: I read it. I kind of slid it to the side. 151 00:09:35,320 --> 00:09:35,600 Speaker 1: Again. 152 00:09:35,640 --> 00:09:39,559 Speaker 10: I'm in this ketchup mode, but it was full of God, 153 00:09:39,840 --> 00:09:45,120 Speaker 10: Jesus the Devil. It was in that terminology to a 154 00:09:45,320 --> 00:09:48,440 Speaker 10: jaded reporter by there and saying a great some fucking 155 00:09:48,559 --> 00:09:49,200 Speaker 10: whack job. 156 00:09:51,000 --> 00:09:54,640 Speaker 11: The letter begins, I built with these hands the bomb 157 00:09:54,720 --> 00:09:58,040 Speaker 11: that I placed in the car of Judy Barry. Doubt 158 00:09:58,120 --> 00:10:00,120 Speaker 11: me not, or I will tell you the design and 159 00:10:00,320 --> 00:10:04,559 Speaker 11: materials such as only I will know. I come forward now, 160 00:10:04,880 --> 00:10:07,360 Speaker 11: emboldened by the spirit of the Lord, to spread the 161 00:10:07,440 --> 00:10:10,160 Speaker 11: message spoken by the bomb, so that all will hear 162 00:10:10,240 --> 00:10:11,800 Speaker 11: it and take it into their hearts. 163 00:10:15,400 --> 00:10:17,840 Speaker 1: There was something about the letter that stuck with Mike, 164 00:10:18,360 --> 00:10:22,160 Speaker 1: and he reconsidered his initial read. The letter seemed to 165 00:10:22,240 --> 00:10:25,520 Speaker 1: have specific information about the construction of the bomb. 166 00:10:26,760 --> 00:10:30,520 Speaker 10: ID five minutes later, ten minutes later, I'm thinking, boy, 167 00:10:30,800 --> 00:10:36,880 Speaker 10: it really describes this device. I mean in great detail, 168 00:10:37,080 --> 00:10:40,600 Speaker 10: as if you had to be there when the device 169 00:10:40,800 --> 00:10:42,520 Speaker 10: was made then to write about it. 170 00:10:45,040 --> 00:10:45,640 Speaker 1: From the letter. 171 00:10:47,000 --> 00:10:50,400 Speaker 11: It was two inch galvanized pipe eleven inches long with 172 00:10:50,559 --> 00:10:53,760 Speaker 11: black iron end caps, one drilled for wires to go 173 00:10:53,840 --> 00:10:57,199 Speaker 11: to the matchhead, igniter bottle, a POxy glue in the 174 00:10:57,280 --> 00:10:57,760 Speaker 11: drill hole. 175 00:10:59,320 --> 00:11:02,079 Speaker 10: The thing that my attention at the time, and this 176 00:11:02,320 --> 00:11:06,400 Speaker 10: was a week later. It was a rolling mechanism that 177 00:11:06,440 --> 00:11:09,120 Speaker 10: if you went around the corner in that metal ball roll, 178 00:11:09,280 --> 00:11:13,000 Speaker 10: they could trigger the device. So it wasn't a device 179 00:11:13,160 --> 00:11:15,680 Speaker 10: that you or I had to reach over and flip 180 00:11:15,760 --> 00:11:18,720 Speaker 10: on or trigger. It could trigger itself. 181 00:11:20,760 --> 00:11:23,000 Speaker 1: It signed off, I have spoken. 182 00:11:23,760 --> 00:11:25,560 Speaker 11: I am the Lord's Avenger. 183 00:11:27,559 --> 00:11:30,800 Speaker 1: It included six Bible passages set off from the rest 184 00:11:30,880 --> 00:11:34,000 Speaker 1: of the text. Mike Janella brought the letter to his 185 00:11:34,160 --> 00:11:37,520 Speaker 1: editor to discuss what they had and what they should do. 186 00:11:38,480 --> 00:11:41,559 Speaker 1: Because the letter contained so much information about the bomb, 187 00:11:42,160 --> 00:11:44,560 Speaker 1: it was likely a crucial piece of evidence. 188 00:11:46,240 --> 00:11:48,800 Speaker 10: I had mixed feelings then I still have mixed feelings. 189 00:11:48,960 --> 00:11:52,760 Speaker 10: But we did contact the FBI office in Santa Rosa. 190 00:11:53,160 --> 00:11:57,720 Speaker 10: It kind of a little comedy unfolded. They sipped up 191 00:11:57,800 --> 00:12:01,079 Speaker 10: the highway. It takes them an hour, came into my office, 192 00:12:01,160 --> 00:12:04,480 Speaker 10: this guy FBI agent, and he does his little finger 193 00:12:04,559 --> 00:12:08,160 Speaker 10: printing thing, putting it in the plastic bag. But he's 194 00:12:08,200 --> 00:12:12,120 Speaker 10: not asking one question, who I am? Do you do 195 00:12:12,240 --> 00:12:13,840 Speaker 10: you recognize anything here? 196 00:12:14,240 --> 00:12:14,679 Speaker 7: What was it? 197 00:12:14,760 --> 00:12:20,160 Speaker 10: An addressed? Not one question? And I finally looked at him, 198 00:12:20,720 --> 00:12:23,199 Speaker 10: I said, you're taking this for face? He said, oh, yeah, no, 199 00:12:23,760 --> 00:12:27,760 Speaker 10: finger printing is our top first top action. And I said, well, 200 00:12:27,840 --> 00:12:31,559 Speaker 10: my fingerprints are probably all over this because I opened it, 201 00:12:31,679 --> 00:12:34,120 Speaker 10: I held it, I read it. I read it three 202 00:12:34,320 --> 00:12:36,880 Speaker 10: tons and I said, so are you going to do it? 203 00:12:37,360 --> 00:12:41,319 Speaker 10: Do you need a comparison fingerprints? Oh no, and he 204 00:12:41,400 --> 00:12:42,200 Speaker 10: walked out the door. 205 00:12:43,920 --> 00:12:47,439 Speaker 1: If this seems strange, it is. And if you're thinking 206 00:12:47,600 --> 00:12:49,960 Speaker 1: that the letter sounds as if it was written by 207 00:12:50,080 --> 00:12:55,120 Speaker 1: someone with religious fervor someone like Bill Staley, that's probably 208 00:12:55,240 --> 00:12:59,280 Speaker 1: what the letter writer wanted you to think. David Halvarg 209 00:12:59,600 --> 00:13:01,160 Speaker 1: on the content of the letter. 210 00:13:02,480 --> 00:13:06,000 Speaker 6: The lords Avenger letter was probably written by the bomber 211 00:13:06,200 --> 00:13:08,520 Speaker 6: or by somebody who was standing next to the bomber 212 00:13:08,559 --> 00:13:12,079 Speaker 6: when the bombs were constructed. It described in detail the 213 00:13:12,160 --> 00:13:15,080 Speaker 6: two pipe bombs, the one that was in Gdy Battery's car, 214 00:13:15,320 --> 00:13:18,040 Speaker 6: and one a couple of weeks earlier that had been 215 00:13:18,120 --> 00:13:21,800 Speaker 6: at a lumber mill, or rather the offices of a 216 00:13:21,920 --> 00:13:25,480 Speaker 6: lumber company. It had exploded but failed to set off 217 00:13:25,640 --> 00:13:28,400 Speaker 6: a can of a gas or kerosene it was next 218 00:13:28,440 --> 00:13:31,800 Speaker 6: to it. The idea was to burn the building down instead, 219 00:13:31,840 --> 00:13:33,160 Speaker 6: it had a little effect. 220 00:13:35,080 --> 00:13:37,280 Speaker 1: This bomb had been placed on the porch of a 221 00:13:37,360 --> 00:13:41,440 Speaker 1: lumber mill in Cloverdale, the northernmost town in Sonoma County, 222 00:13:42,080 --> 00:13:46,200 Speaker 1: just miles from the Mendocino County border. The bomb had 223 00:13:46,240 --> 00:13:50,680 Speaker 1: only partially detonated and the damage was minimal. A mill 224 00:13:50,760 --> 00:13:53,839 Speaker 1: worker had merely reported that someone had strewn garbage on 225 00:13:53,920 --> 00:13:57,280 Speaker 1: the porch. The remains of the bomb were found, but 226 00:13:57,400 --> 00:14:00,360 Speaker 1: the incident didn't even merit a mention in the local 227 00:14:00,440 --> 00:14:03,960 Speaker 1: newspapers until it was connected to the bombing of Judy's 228 00:14:04,000 --> 00:14:08,520 Speaker 1: car in the following weeks. The key thing, though, was 229 00:14:08,559 --> 00:14:12,400 Speaker 1: that almost no information about the Cloverdale bomb had been publicized, 230 00:14:12,960 --> 00:14:16,000 Speaker 1: but the letter writer was able to describe how it 231 00:14:16,240 --> 00:14:20,520 Speaker 1: was constructed. It was fairly conclusive evidence that the writer 232 00:14:20,960 --> 00:14:22,120 Speaker 1: had made that bomb. 233 00:14:23,520 --> 00:14:26,800 Speaker 6: The Lord's Avenger letter said I was going to set 234 00:14:26,840 --> 00:14:29,440 Speaker 6: off a bomb and blame Judy, but the Lord told 235 00:14:29,520 --> 00:14:34,280 Speaker 6: me that I should instead get the devil herself. The 236 00:14:34,400 --> 00:14:37,440 Speaker 6: rhetoric in the letter was very questionable. It referred to 237 00:14:37,480 --> 00:14:41,200 Speaker 6: her paganism, and there was language that just didn't sound 238 00:14:41,360 --> 00:14:45,800 Speaker 6: like a right wing extremist. It sounded like somebody imitating 239 00:14:45,840 --> 00:14:49,360 Speaker 6: a right wing extremist. But the details of the two bombs, 240 00:14:49,800 --> 00:14:52,200 Speaker 6: it was clearly that it was written by the person 241 00:14:52,240 --> 00:14:53,280 Speaker 6: who did the bombs. 242 00:14:55,120 --> 00:14:59,440 Speaker 1: Halvarg and Talbot questions Dally about the letter in their documentary. 243 00:15:01,120 --> 00:15:04,080 Speaker 5: If I had written the letter, I would have had 244 00:15:04,120 --> 00:15:08,800 Speaker 5: it much more biblically based and reason and logic. But 245 00:15:08,920 --> 00:15:11,359 Speaker 5: it didn't seem to have any of those real qualities 246 00:15:11,440 --> 00:15:16,560 Speaker 5: of presenting some of the sensitive issues on abortion. 247 00:15:18,400 --> 00:15:21,280 Speaker 6: And he also thought the Lord's Avengel letter didn't really 248 00:15:21,400 --> 00:15:24,440 Speaker 6: sound like a true anti abortionist and is a true 249 00:15:24,480 --> 00:15:28,000 Speaker 6: hardcore anti abortionist. That was an interesting perspective he had. 250 00:15:29,600 --> 00:15:32,760 Speaker 4: Everybody who looks seriously the case came to realize this 251 00:15:33,000 --> 00:15:36,040 Speaker 4: was somebody who was not Bill Staley, but it was 252 00:15:36,120 --> 00:15:39,880 Speaker 4: someone trying to imitate Bill Staley and cast dispersions on him. 253 00:15:40,520 --> 00:15:43,760 Speaker 4: We didn't entirely dismiss him, but it seemed to me 254 00:15:44,160 --> 00:15:47,720 Speaker 4: after interviewing him, that he just was not the kind 255 00:15:47,720 --> 00:15:50,520 Speaker 4: of person who would do it. He did have a temper, 256 00:15:50,960 --> 00:15:54,560 Speaker 4: so that's where the idea emerged that he might have 257 00:15:54,640 --> 00:15:57,200 Speaker 4: been so enraged by that that he might have actually 258 00:15:57,480 --> 00:16:01,480 Speaker 4: tried to kill her. Again, talking to him and talking 259 00:16:01,560 --> 00:16:04,640 Speaker 4: to the people around him, it just didn't seem like 260 00:16:05,040 --> 00:16:08,280 Speaker 4: he was going to do it. I do not think 261 00:16:08,440 --> 00:16:12,200 Speaker 4: that he I shouldn't say that he wasn't capable of 262 00:16:12,320 --> 00:16:14,600 Speaker 4: doing this, but it was very, very unlikely. 263 00:16:16,360 --> 00:16:19,080 Speaker 1: The police also took a cursory look at Staley and 264 00:16:19,200 --> 00:16:22,480 Speaker 1: determined that he was not the bomber. The letter was 265 00:16:22,520 --> 00:16:26,640 Speaker 1: still a critical piece of evidence, probably the critical piece 266 00:16:26,680 --> 00:16:29,960 Speaker 1: of evidence, but it wasn't treated that way, and this 267 00:16:30,080 --> 00:16:33,240 Speaker 1: would have dire consequences for any chance of finding who 268 00:16:33,320 --> 00:16:45,960 Speaker 1: had planted the bomb. After the break, the FBI was 269 00:16:46,000 --> 00:16:49,080 Speaker 1: able to pull fingerprints from the letter, but without Mike 270 00:16:49,160 --> 00:16:52,600 Speaker 1: Janella's prints on file for comparison, they were left at 271 00:16:52,640 --> 00:16:53,200 Speaker 1: a dead end. 272 00:16:54,560 --> 00:16:57,800 Speaker 10: The FBI analysis who had done all this stuff Back 273 00:16:57,840 --> 00:17:01,120 Speaker 10: in Northern DC. He was asked what did you find 274 00:17:01,160 --> 00:17:03,560 Speaker 10: and said, well, we found finger prints and a thumb print. 275 00:17:03,960 --> 00:17:06,720 Speaker 10: Do you know who they were? No, did you take 276 00:17:07,119 --> 00:17:10,360 Speaker 10: examples of the guy who actually held the goddamn thing? 277 00:17:11,880 --> 00:17:15,760 Speaker 10: It was just it seemingly small at the time, but 278 00:17:16,320 --> 00:17:19,320 Speaker 10: as time's gone by, I just see it as sloppiness. 279 00:17:19,680 --> 00:17:22,320 Speaker 10: Wouldn't you want to rule out the guy who handled it, 280 00:17:22,560 --> 00:17:25,520 Speaker 10: so you're going to hopefully identify the person who wrote it. 281 00:17:27,280 --> 00:17:30,200 Speaker 1: When they were done with the letter, the FBI returned 282 00:17:30,200 --> 00:17:32,000 Speaker 1: it to the Press Democrat. 283 00:17:32,600 --> 00:17:36,320 Speaker 10: I immediately talked to Susan about it, and she knew 284 00:17:36,359 --> 00:17:38,760 Speaker 10: some people back your way in New England who did 285 00:17:38,920 --> 00:17:40,360 Speaker 10: the high tech analysis. 286 00:17:41,880 --> 00:17:45,240 Speaker 1: The Susan that Mike refers to here is the influential 287 00:17:45,320 --> 00:17:50,200 Speaker 1: feminist author Susan Faludi. She spent time researching a book 288 00:17:50,240 --> 00:17:53,480 Speaker 1: about Judy Berry and attended the two thousand and two 289 00:17:53,600 --> 00:17:57,600 Speaker 1: civil trial, though she never actually wrote the book. She 290 00:17:57,880 --> 00:18:00,679 Speaker 1: and Mike Janella became acquainted during this period. 291 00:18:02,040 --> 00:18:05,720 Speaker 10: So I wrote the newspaper the editor at the time, 292 00:18:05,840 --> 00:18:08,200 Speaker 10: and I said it was addressed to me, but I 293 00:18:08,280 --> 00:18:11,520 Speaker 10: know it's your property, Susan Flute, and I would like 294 00:18:11,600 --> 00:18:15,920 Speaker 10: to obtain that letter for testing. We'll return it, of 295 00:18:16,040 --> 00:18:19,520 Speaker 10: course to the Press Democrat, and we will actually to 296 00:18:19,600 --> 00:18:22,200 Speaker 10: take a suite and the follow we will share any 297 00:18:22,240 --> 00:18:25,720 Speaker 10: of the results, we will write it to you first 298 00:18:25,880 --> 00:18:28,840 Speaker 10: and then wherever this analysis leads to. 299 00:18:30,000 --> 00:18:31,320 Speaker 1: They didn't get the letter. 300 00:18:32,680 --> 00:18:37,000 Speaker 10: I was stunned. A week later, we have lost the letter. 301 00:18:37,200 --> 00:18:41,160 Speaker 10: We can't find it. The one single piece of evidence 302 00:18:41,840 --> 00:18:47,480 Speaker 10: in this high profile case was quote lost by the 303 00:18:47,720 --> 00:18:49,960 Speaker 10: editor who have been in charge of it. Had it 304 00:18:50,160 --> 00:18:53,480 Speaker 10: been returned to there's never been any excellent I checked 305 00:18:53,760 --> 00:18:58,120 Speaker 10: the Press Democrat had a wonderful research a library. Most 306 00:18:58,160 --> 00:19:01,800 Speaker 10: people could find anything. They've took care of sensitive matters. 307 00:19:02,240 --> 00:19:06,080 Speaker 10: It was a first rate library archive system. And I 308 00:19:06,240 --> 00:19:08,000 Speaker 10: talked to the woman in charge of it at the time. 309 00:19:08,200 --> 00:19:11,320 Speaker 10: She said, I was never given that or asked to 310 00:19:11,480 --> 00:19:17,520 Speaker 10: secure that letter. So FBI returns it high profile, woof, 311 00:19:17,600 --> 00:19:23,120 Speaker 10: it's gone. The single piece of evidence in this case banished. Coincidence? 312 00:19:24,119 --> 00:19:27,000 Speaker 10: Are we back to coincidence again? You know, it's a 313 00:19:27,119 --> 00:19:31,840 Speaker 10: case full of coincidence. The simple explanation from the people 314 00:19:31,920 --> 00:19:34,760 Speaker 10: involved that the newspaper was well, it just must have 315 00:19:34,880 --> 00:19:38,720 Speaker 10: gotten misspiled, maybe tossed the way. You know, it's just 316 00:19:38,800 --> 00:19:39,480 Speaker 10: too incredible. 317 00:19:40,880 --> 00:19:44,280 Speaker 1: Whatever happened to the letter, the most promising avenue for 318 00:19:44,400 --> 00:19:48,560 Speaker 1: investigation was gone. It had been tested after it was 319 00:19:48,680 --> 00:19:51,720 Speaker 1: received and determined to have DNA traces from both a 320 00:19:51,880 --> 00:19:55,199 Speaker 1: man and a woman. But a new round of testing 321 00:19:55,320 --> 00:19:59,680 Speaker 1: with more sensitive and effective techniques would likely find new information. 322 00:20:00,760 --> 00:20:02,040 Speaker 1: But that is not possible. 323 00:20:03,280 --> 00:20:05,800 Speaker 3: That was sort of the last chance of what's left 324 00:20:05,880 --> 00:20:09,680 Speaker 3: of the evidence to pursue. But without that letter and 325 00:20:09,880 --> 00:20:13,800 Speaker 3: using perhaps using new DNA techniques, they could have done 326 00:20:13,840 --> 00:20:16,320 Speaker 3: more with it than what was done with that first attempt. 327 00:20:17,000 --> 00:20:21,320 Speaker 3: But I'm afraid that the case is now pretty cold. 328 00:20:23,440 --> 00:20:26,440 Speaker 1: The loss of the Lord's Avenger letter ended any hope 329 00:20:26,520 --> 00:20:29,399 Speaker 1: to get forensic evidence from it, but the search for 330 00:20:29,480 --> 00:20:32,960 Speaker 1: who might have written the letter continued. One person who 331 00:20:33,040 --> 00:20:39,159 Speaker 1: drew attention was a strange and marginal character named IRV Sutley. Again, 332 00:20:39,560 --> 00:20:40,800 Speaker 1: Steve Talbot. 333 00:20:41,640 --> 00:20:46,240 Speaker 4: RV was a strange guy. He was a pretty dedicated 334 00:20:46,960 --> 00:20:50,080 Speaker 4: Peace and Freedom Party guy. That was a party back 335 00:20:50,160 --> 00:20:55,400 Speaker 4: in the sixties, and he always saw himself as someone 336 00:20:55,680 --> 00:20:57,240 Speaker 4: fighting for social justice. 337 00:20:59,040 --> 00:21:02,680 Speaker 1: The Peace and Freedom is a socialist political party whose 338 00:21:02,760 --> 00:21:07,960 Speaker 1: presidential candidates have included black panther Eldridge Cleaver, pediatrician doctor 339 00:21:08,040 --> 00:21:11,720 Speaker 1: Benjamin Spock, and consumer advocate Ralph Nader. 340 00:21:12,880 --> 00:21:16,840 Speaker 4: He had odd jobs. He hung out with whatever sort 341 00:21:16,840 --> 00:21:21,800 Speaker 4: of lefty group was happening in Santa Rosa in Sonoma County, 342 00:21:21,920 --> 00:21:26,040 Speaker 4: up in Mendocino at the same time. He liked guns 343 00:21:26,520 --> 00:21:28,080 Speaker 4: and he always had guns around. 344 00:21:29,359 --> 00:21:30,320 Speaker 1: David Helvarg. 345 00:21:31,480 --> 00:21:33,600 Speaker 6: Yeah, there are right wing gun nuts and they're left 346 00:21:33,640 --> 00:21:37,440 Speaker 6: wing gun nuts. And IRV was a marginal person and 347 00:21:37,600 --> 00:21:40,960 Speaker 6: yet a type that we found up in Mendocino and 348 00:21:41,200 --> 00:21:43,640 Speaker 6: Humboldt at the time. I mean, this was a time 349 00:21:43,840 --> 00:21:46,760 Speaker 6: when the logging industry was playing out, and the pot 350 00:21:46,840 --> 00:21:50,080 Speaker 6: growing industry was just emerging as kind of what would 351 00:21:50,119 --> 00:21:53,320 Speaker 6: eventually be the substitute main industry for that part of 352 00:21:53,359 --> 00:21:56,920 Speaker 6: the world. Cannabis replaced logging, but it was a tough transition. 353 00:21:57,840 --> 00:22:00,960 Speaker 6: IRV wasn't out of place at ment too at the time, 354 00:22:01,520 --> 00:22:05,320 Speaker 6: or was sort of within Judy Barry's sphere of friends 355 00:22:05,359 --> 00:22:06,200 Speaker 6: and acquaintances. 356 00:22:07,600 --> 00:22:11,680 Speaker 10: He was a gadplay that's that old term I would use. 357 00:22:12,040 --> 00:22:14,440 Speaker 10: And that incident of the machine gun or whatever the 358 00:22:14,480 --> 00:22:17,960 Speaker 10: hell was the aka the photo of Judy holding that 359 00:22:18,560 --> 00:22:21,680 Speaker 10: that he supposedly took or gave then turned around and 360 00:22:21,800 --> 00:22:25,600 Speaker 10: sentenced to the police's example of how dangerous she was. 361 00:22:26,720 --> 00:22:30,560 Speaker 4: And he got close to a woman named Pam Davis 362 00:22:31,200 --> 00:22:34,840 Speaker 4: who was very close to Judy Barry, and at a 363 00:22:35,040 --> 00:22:38,440 Speaker 4: certain time all of them were mixed up together in 364 00:22:38,560 --> 00:22:43,120 Speaker 4: her first demonstrations. The thing that got IRV into trouble 365 00:22:44,000 --> 00:22:47,720 Speaker 4: was that he and Judy and Darryl and Pam all 366 00:22:47,840 --> 00:22:53,840 Speaker 4: decided it would be fun to pose Judy holding weapons 367 00:22:54,119 --> 00:22:57,760 Speaker 4: rifles for the cover of an album that she was 368 00:22:57,880 --> 00:22:58,919 Speaker 4: going to do with Darryl. 369 00:23:00,840 --> 00:23:03,239 Speaker 1: This was for an album that would be titled They 370 00:23:03,320 --> 00:23:06,920 Speaker 1: don't make hippies the way they used to. Judy described 371 00:23:06,960 --> 00:23:10,560 Speaker 1: the incident in her nineteen ninety seven deposition. She began 372 00:23:10,680 --> 00:23:13,520 Speaker 1: by talking about how she connected with IRV in nineteen 373 00:23:13,560 --> 00:23:16,200 Speaker 1: eighty eight, after a period in which she had not 374 00:23:16,440 --> 00:23:16,960 Speaker 1: seen him. 375 00:23:18,240 --> 00:23:21,240 Speaker 9: In November of nineteen eighty eight, he traveled to Yukaypa 376 00:23:21,440 --> 00:23:25,359 Speaker 9: and what happened in that occasion. Afterwards he stayed and 377 00:23:25,520 --> 00:23:28,520 Speaker 9: he had a camera, and who stayed with Pam Davis, 378 00:23:28,560 --> 00:23:30,359 Speaker 9: who he was living in her house at the time, 379 00:23:30,600 --> 00:23:35,040 Speaker 9: friend of mine, and he stayed overnight because he was 380 00:23:35,119 --> 00:23:39,480 Speaker 9: traveling north, and he stayed at Darryll's house. And while 381 00:23:39,560 --> 00:23:43,240 Speaker 9: we were at Darrell's house, we had certain conversation which 382 00:23:43,280 --> 00:23:47,560 Speaker 9: are reflected in the flutter. And also he would lazy 383 00:23:47,640 --> 00:23:50,320 Speaker 9: out of his trunks and suggested to us that it 384 00:23:50,320 --> 00:23:52,960 Speaker 9: would be fun to pose with it, imitating a famous 385 00:23:53,000 --> 00:23:53,880 Speaker 9: Patty versus pope. 386 00:23:55,920 --> 00:23:59,080 Speaker 1: This is the famous photo of hers in fatigues and 387 00:23:59,200 --> 00:24:02,080 Speaker 1: a beret standing in front of a flag of the 388 00:24:02,160 --> 00:24:06,399 Speaker 1: Symbionese Liberation Army holding a machine gun is the ready 389 00:24:06,480 --> 00:24:06,919 Speaker 1: to shoot. 390 00:24:07,840 --> 00:24:11,639 Speaker 9: And we took turns posting and they took photos. Actually 391 00:24:11,680 --> 00:24:14,879 Speaker 9: this photos of four people of Pam me and Darryl 392 00:24:14,960 --> 00:24:18,760 Speaker 9: each holding easy. Now this photograph contends to go on 393 00:24:18,840 --> 00:24:22,280 Speaker 9: that's owned by Earth that he suggested that we post 394 00:24:22,960 --> 00:24:24,840 Speaker 9: that he placed it in my hands. I had a 395 00:24:24,920 --> 00:24:28,399 Speaker 9: hard time even looking serious. I kept laughing and not 396 00:24:28,520 --> 00:24:30,920 Speaker 9: holding it right. He placed it in my hands and 397 00:24:31,359 --> 00:24:34,000 Speaker 9: he actually lowered it. I now believe so the Earth's 398 00:24:34,040 --> 00:24:35,760 Speaker 9: First symbol would show on my shirt. 399 00:24:37,160 --> 00:24:40,719 Speaker 2: Have you ever fired an uzi ya? 400 00:24:41,760 --> 00:24:41,920 Speaker 5: Now? 401 00:24:50,280 --> 00:24:53,480 Speaker 1: In January of nineteen eighty nine, a letter addressed to 402 00:24:53,640 --> 00:24:58,240 Speaker 1: Chief Fred Kaplinger arrived at the Yukaya Police station. The 403 00:24:58,359 --> 00:25:03,440 Speaker 1: envelope was marked personal confidential. Inside was a brief typed 404 00:25:03,560 --> 00:25:06,240 Speaker 1: letter and one of the photos of Judy holding an 405 00:25:06,320 --> 00:25:11,919 Speaker 1: uzi posed like Patty Hurst. The letter began, I joined. 406 00:25:11,640 --> 00:25:14,399 Speaker 11: Her First to be able to report illegal activities of 407 00:25:14,480 --> 00:25:18,440 Speaker 11: that organization. Now I want to establish a contact to 408 00:25:18,520 --> 00:25:20,280 Speaker 11: provide information to authorities. 409 00:25:21,680 --> 00:25:24,760 Speaker 1: The writer was offering to be a police informant. The 410 00:25:24,880 --> 00:25:29,080 Speaker 1: letter contained several claims, among them that Earth First had 411 00:25:29,160 --> 00:25:35,200 Speaker 1: recently begun automatic weapons training. This was not true. It 412 00:25:35,280 --> 00:25:41,600 Speaker 1: also claimed that Judy financed Earth First activities by selling marijuana. Specifically, 413 00:25:42,160 --> 00:25:45,679 Speaker 1: it said that on December twenty third, Judy had mailed 414 00:25:45,720 --> 00:25:49,800 Speaker 1: a box of marijuana from the Yukayah Post Office. Judy 415 00:25:49,880 --> 00:25:52,600 Speaker 1: admitted to sending marijuana through the mail to a friend, 416 00:25:53,160 --> 00:25:56,119 Speaker 1: but denied being a dealer and was never charged with 417 00:25:56,240 --> 00:26:00,240 Speaker 1: that crime. The letter ended with the writer saying that 418 00:26:00,359 --> 00:26:05,440 Speaker 1: when police made contact, the writer would identify themselves as Argusts. 419 00:26:06,400 --> 00:26:08,920 Speaker 1: The letter became known as the Argus Letter. 420 00:26:10,359 --> 00:26:14,600 Speaker 10: The antiques were goofy and I don't believe Judy barry 421 00:26:14,680 --> 00:26:16,800 Speaker 10: knew one end of a gun from the other. Frankly, 422 00:26:17,840 --> 00:26:22,240 Speaker 10: she was a master of antiques like the rest of them, Darryl, 423 00:26:22,520 --> 00:26:25,600 Speaker 10: all of them. But I never took that seriously. The 424 00:26:25,720 --> 00:26:29,080 Speaker 10: Yukaya police, if I recall correct, they did look into that, 425 00:26:29,359 --> 00:26:32,600 Speaker 10: tried to make a serious is there a connection to 426 00:26:32,760 --> 00:26:38,000 Speaker 10: some radicals and guns? And even they left it alone, 427 00:26:38,200 --> 00:26:41,119 Speaker 10: walked away from them. I might add small town cops 428 00:26:41,480 --> 00:26:44,480 Speaker 10: would have seized on that probably at the time. 429 00:26:46,240 --> 00:26:49,480 Speaker 1: But even though the letter led to nothing, Judy believed 430 00:26:49,520 --> 00:26:51,159 Speaker 1: that Subtley was the author. 431 00:26:52,359 --> 00:26:55,399 Speaker 2: Do you have a belief as to who wrote that 432 00:26:55,560 --> 00:26:58,159 Speaker 2: letter and sent that picture to the Yukaya beliefs. I 433 00:26:58,240 --> 00:27:02,280 Speaker 2: believe it was our Subtley And what the basis of 434 00:27:02,400 --> 00:27:02,919 Speaker 2: your belief? 435 00:27:03,960 --> 00:27:08,119 Speaker 9: The information contained in the letter is all things that 436 00:27:08,520 --> 00:27:12,680 Speaker 9: he would know from a certain weekend that he spent 437 00:27:12,840 --> 00:27:16,280 Speaker 9: up here. He owns the UZI, he placed it in 438 00:27:16,400 --> 00:27:21,480 Speaker 9: my hand. He had access to the photographs, and he 439 00:27:21,640 --> 00:27:24,359 Speaker 9: attempted to get me to sell him marijuana right around 440 00:27:24,359 --> 00:27:25,480 Speaker 9: the time that that ed WASLM. 441 00:27:27,720 --> 00:27:30,359 Speaker 1: In a nineteen ninety five interview with the Santa Rosa 442 00:27:30,440 --> 00:27:33,639 Speaker 1: Press Democrat, Sutley denied being the author. 443 00:27:34,800 --> 00:27:37,840 Speaker 11: Judy makes everything that happens part of a conspiracy against her. 444 00:27:38,520 --> 00:27:41,000 Speaker 11: Maybe things happen to her that are coincidental and she 445 00:27:41,080 --> 00:27:42,000 Speaker 11: can't sort them out. 446 00:27:44,160 --> 00:27:46,520 Speaker 1: Of course, when someone tried to murder you with a 447 00:27:46,600 --> 00:27:53,800 Speaker 1: pipe bomb, seeing conspiracies is understandable and not necessarily misguided. Regardless, 448 00:27:54,359 --> 00:27:57,280 Speaker 1: Suttley was angry that Judy had publicly accused him of 449 00:27:57,400 --> 00:28:00,160 Speaker 1: being a police informant and was not going to take 450 00:28:00,200 --> 00:28:04,960 Speaker 1: her accusations lying down. In the same nineteen ninety five interview, 451 00:28:05,320 --> 00:28:06,480 Speaker 1: he made another claim. 452 00:28:07,920 --> 00:28:11,920 Speaker 4: Now he also and this was even more troubling. He 453 00:28:12,280 --> 00:28:17,920 Speaker 4: later said that Judy had asked Pam or asked him 454 00:28:18,040 --> 00:28:22,520 Speaker 4: directly to kill her husband ex husband, Michael Sweeney, and 455 00:28:22,640 --> 00:28:24,560 Speaker 4: that she had offered him money I think was five 456 00:28:24,640 --> 00:28:26,840 Speaker 4: thousand dollars or something to be a hitman. 457 00:28:28,840 --> 00:28:32,240 Speaker 1: Suttley claimed that in March of nineteen eighty nine, Pam 458 00:28:32,400 --> 00:28:35,760 Speaker 1: Davis told him that Judy wanted her ex husband Mike 459 00:28:35,880 --> 00:28:40,080 Speaker 1: Sweeney killed, she would pay Subtley five thousand dollars to 460 00:28:40,200 --> 00:28:44,520 Speaker 1: do it again. According to Sutley, that figure amounted to 461 00:28:44,680 --> 00:28:48,840 Speaker 1: ten percent of what quote Judy would get by Sweeney's demise. 462 00:28:50,120 --> 00:28:52,560 Speaker 1: He also claimed that Davis told him that Judy thought 463 00:28:52,880 --> 00:28:57,320 Speaker 1: quote that he was brutal to her. Now, it's important 464 00:28:57,320 --> 00:29:00,800 Speaker 1: to keep in mind that Sutley, who died in twenty four, 465 00:29:01,560 --> 00:29:05,280 Speaker 1: was not a very reliable source. But a couple of things. 466 00:29:06,040 --> 00:29:09,520 Speaker 1: The first is that Judy acknowledged that this had in 467 00:29:09,680 --> 00:29:10,560 Speaker 1: fact happened. 468 00:29:12,000 --> 00:29:15,560 Speaker 4: Now, he said that was serious. Judy said it was 469 00:29:15,600 --> 00:29:18,440 Speaker 4: a joke. Was all a misunderstanding, she said, if I 470 00:29:18,520 --> 00:29:20,240 Speaker 4: ever said that it was a joke. 471 00:29:21,840 --> 00:29:24,960 Speaker 1: The second is that claims that Mike Sweeney was abusive 472 00:29:25,000 --> 00:29:29,880 Speaker 1: to Judy were extremely controversial. A number of people claimed 473 00:29:29,920 --> 00:29:34,200 Speaker 1: that Judy had personally told them about being abused. Judy 474 00:29:34,480 --> 00:29:37,880 Speaker 1: adamantly denied it. We will look at this issue more 475 00:29:37,960 --> 00:29:43,280 Speaker 1: carefully in a future episode. Judy's accusations against Sutley caused 476 00:29:43,360 --> 00:29:46,120 Speaker 1: turmoil within the left wing activist community. 477 00:29:47,080 --> 00:29:48,160 Speaker 9: She and some of her. 478 00:29:48,120 --> 00:29:50,640 Speaker 1: Allies tried to have him kicked out of the Peace 479 00:29:50,720 --> 00:29:53,560 Speaker 1: and Freedom Party, even though he had been the state's 480 00:29:53,680 --> 00:29:58,440 Speaker 1: first party chairman in nineteen seventy. A friend of Barry's name, 481 00:29:58,560 --> 00:30:00,800 Speaker 1: Mary Moore, told the Press Democrat that. 482 00:30:00,960 --> 00:30:05,040 Speaker 11: Quote, the real problem is making allegations that are unproven 483 00:30:05,200 --> 00:30:08,920 Speaker 11: and hurting somebody's reputation in our circles. It is not 484 00:30:09,080 --> 00:30:12,120 Speaker 11: okay to say another activist is an FBI informant. 485 00:30:14,640 --> 00:30:17,640 Speaker 1: So Judy's penchant for seeing herself as the target of 486 00:30:17,760 --> 00:30:21,800 Speaker 1: plots was received with some doubt, even amongst some of 487 00:30:21,880 --> 00:30:27,520 Speaker 1: her allies. Ultimately, Subtley was largely dismissed as a suspect. 488 00:30:28,840 --> 00:30:33,040 Speaker 4: So IRV was. He was a complicated character. He was 489 00:30:33,080 --> 00:30:36,240 Speaker 4: a bit of a sad sack character. I was very 490 00:30:36,360 --> 00:30:40,320 Speaker 4: suspicious of him and pushed him very hard. He did 491 00:30:40,440 --> 00:30:43,560 Speaker 4: agree to be interviewed down the road. After I was 492 00:30:43,600 --> 00:30:46,680 Speaker 4: done with the case. He submitted to an eye detector test. 493 00:30:47,320 --> 00:30:51,000 Speaker 4: I came to believe that IRV Subtlely was not the culprit. 494 00:30:51,120 --> 00:30:53,880 Speaker 4: IRV Subtlely didn't quit the bomb in the car, but 495 00:30:54,520 --> 00:30:58,280 Speaker 4: that was only after a long time. I was suspicious 496 00:30:58,320 --> 00:30:59,400 Speaker 4: of him for quite a while. 497 00:31:01,160 --> 00:31:04,719 Speaker 1: Bill Staley and RF Sutley had, at various times seemed 498 00:31:04,760 --> 00:31:07,800 Speaker 1: like real candidates to be the person who planted the 499 00:31:07,920 --> 00:31:11,680 Speaker 1: bomb in Judy's car, but in the end neither seemed 500 00:31:11,680 --> 00:31:15,480 Speaker 1: to be the perpetrator. But there were other possibilities, and 501 00:31:15,680 --> 00:31:18,800 Speaker 1: Judy and her allies settled upon a theory that showed 502 00:31:18,840 --> 00:31:21,840 Speaker 1: the danger they felt they represented to the timber industry 503 00:31:22,680 --> 00:31:27,640 Speaker 1: and the dominance of capitalism in American life. Next Time 504 00:31:28,440 --> 00:31:29,240 Speaker 1: on Rip Current. 505 00:31:31,440 --> 00:31:34,560 Speaker 8: Rip Current was written and hosted by Toby Ball. Our 506 00:31:34,640 --> 00:31:38,480 Speaker 8: executive producers are Trevor Young and Matt Frederick, with supervising 507 00:31:38,520 --> 00:31:42,720 Speaker 8: producer Rimat el Kyali and producers Nomes Griffin and Jesse Funk. 508 00:31:43,280 --> 00:31:46,960 Speaker 8: Original music by Jeff Sanoff. Our voice actor for Judy 509 00:31:47,000 --> 00:31:51,080 Speaker 8: Barry is Gina Rickikey. Editing and sound design by Nomes Griffin, 510 00:31:51,480 --> 00:31:55,479 Speaker 8: Rima Elkyli and Jesse Funk. The show is mixed by 511 00:31:55,560 --> 00:31:59,880 Speaker 8: Rima el Kyali. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the 512 00:32:00,040 --> 00:32:03,960 Speaker 8: iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.