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Speaker 1: Hello, Catherine.

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Speaker 2: Hi Chelsea, you were telling me you added some second

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Speaker 2: shows in some cities.

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Speaker 3: What do you have going on?

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Speaker 1: Okay, guys, I have added more second shows to my

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Speaker 1: Little Big Bitch tour. I added second shows in Hollywood

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Speaker 1: at the Pantagious. I am going to be there two

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Speaker 1: nights October twelfth and thirteenth. I added another show at

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Speaker 1: the Chicago Theater October twenty seventh and October twenty eighth,

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Speaker 1: one of my favorite places to perform. I added another

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Speaker 1: show in Portland, so I'll be there November second and third.

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Speaker 1: And I added a second show in Boston at the

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Speaker 1: Weighing Center, so I will be there November sixteenth and seventeenth.

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Speaker 1: I also have two shows in Seattle, San Francisco, New

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Speaker 1: York at the Beacon and Washington, d C. I will

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Speaker 1: be there October fifth and sixth. And a special shout

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Speaker 1: out to Phoenix, Arizona, where I'm coming Saturday, October fourteenth.

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Speaker 1: And then I'm coming to Cleveland Columbus in Pittsburgh, So

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Speaker 1: suck on that, you guys. I can't wait to set everybody.

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Speaker 1: Oh and I'm coming to Eugene, Oregon too, everybody. That's

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Speaker 1: November ninth, twenty twenty three, and I will be at

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Speaker 1: the Clubhouse in East Hampton, which is going to be

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Speaker 1: a very intimate show on Saturday, August twenty sixth, So

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Speaker 1: if you are in the Long Island area, that's where.

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Speaker 2: I'll be awesome. Well, we have a great guest today

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Speaker 2: and she talks all about women and the patriarchy and

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Speaker 2: it's very exciting.

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Speaker 3: But I have a question for you.

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Speaker 2: You've talked about how you know your mom and your

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Speaker 2: sisters were big influences in your life. But I'm curious,

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Speaker 2: who are some other powerful women in your life, either

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Speaker 2: growing up or early on, and what did they teach you?

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Speaker 1: I mean, I guess I would start with my third

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Speaker 1: grade teacher, missus Sheckman. She was a big influence on

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Speaker 1: me because she loved me and she just showed me

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Speaker 1: such like maternal love. And I went and stayed with

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Speaker 1: her a couple times at her beach house with her husband,

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Speaker 1: and my mom loved them, and she just really took

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Speaker 1: me under her wing. I think she sensed how to

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Speaker 1: neglected I was, and she must have felt for me,

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Speaker 1: and she was just so sweet. I still talk to her.

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Speaker 1: I talked to her. I haven't talked to her in

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Speaker 1: a few months, but she calls me every once in

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Speaker 1: a while and she's just she lives in Florida, and

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Speaker 1: she just extended love to me and tenderness, and I

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Speaker 1: really that made an impact on me to extend love

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Speaker 1: and tenderness to others who or who who I could

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Speaker 1: see were neglected. Yeah, so I and my mom was

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Speaker 1: very much like that. My mom was very sweet to

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Speaker 1: people when she knew they had issues or even my

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Speaker 1: girlfriend growing up was really in a bad home situation,

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Speaker 1: and my mom sensed it always told her she loved her,

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Speaker 1: because my friend's parents had never told her that they

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Speaker 1: loved her, And so that was nice. But as far

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Speaker 1: as powerful women like, I don't know that anyone I

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Speaker 1: looked up to like the lessons I learned were powerful.

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Speaker 1: I think I I wanted to always be powerful because

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Speaker 1: I didn't feel like enough women were in my life

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Speaker 1: were powerful, and it made me, just as by instinct,

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Speaker 1: want to be more than what I was seeing, Like

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Speaker 1: I was like, this isn't good enough. Why does? Why

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Speaker 1: are all like I want to be like a boss

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Speaker 1: bitch from a young age. And it's not even that

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Speaker 1: I wanted to be. I just inherently was it was

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Speaker 1: in your nature, Like I just wanted to be in

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Speaker 1: control of my own destiny, not reliant on anybody. And

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Speaker 1: I think that's the always been the theme in my

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Speaker 1: own experience, is that I'm dependable. That's all I wanted

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Speaker 1: to do, because I saw so many people in my

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Speaker 1: life that were not dependable. In my mind, however, I

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Speaker 1: interpreted my brother dying, my mom not picking me up

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Speaker 1: from school, blah blah blah, I wanted to be dependable,

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Speaker 1: and so growing up that was always like, I wanted

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Speaker 1: to be the friend. If you call me, I will

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Speaker 1: be there. If you need me, I will be there.

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Speaker 1: You know you can always count on me. And that

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Speaker 1: was more than the idea of power or looking to

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Speaker 1: someone who you know, in a powerful position. I just

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Speaker 1: wanted to be a soft person.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's interesting because you it sounds like you grew

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Speaker 2: up knowing you wanted to be independent, but also be

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Speaker 2: someone others could depend on.

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Speaker 1: Well, excuse me while I burb well, said Catherine. Great, Yes,

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Speaker 1: that's it, that's exactly right. And what about you? Who

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Speaker 1: did you look up to?

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Speaker 2: I was really lucky where I grew up with a

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Speaker 2: really great mom who sort of like brought in all

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Speaker 2: kinds of other people. Like so many people in my

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Speaker 2: life are are like your mom is like my mom,

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Speaker 2: you know, like she's she's adopted everyone around her. But

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Speaker 2: I also feel like I had so many other like

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Speaker 2: friends moms who were like a second mom to me.

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Speaker 2: My best friend's mom always was like fun to talk

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Speaker 2: to and interesting and like really wonderful and always had

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Speaker 2: this like a bubbly charismatic energy and cared what us

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Speaker 2: kids had to say.

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Speaker 1: You know, yeah, yeah, I.

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Speaker 3: Think that's such an important quality.

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Speaker 2: Is just like listening and being interested, and she always

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Speaker 2: was that for sure.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. I remember I had an uncle growing up, and

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Speaker 1: he was always interested in everything with the kids had

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Speaker 1: to say. Like I remember loving going over to his

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Speaker 1: house because he would spend time with me and be like, Okay,

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Speaker 1: tell me what you think about this. And I was

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Speaker 1: such a young girl and I got so much attention

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Speaker 1: from him. And then last summer, we were all at

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Speaker 1: our family vacation on Martha's Vineyard and some of our

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Speaker 1: cousins came over and then they told us that that

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Speaker 1: uncle had so many affairs growing up with all of

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Speaker 1: his girlfriends. I was like, oh, he was probably hitting

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Speaker 1: on me, so I was like, well, you just blew

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Speaker 1: that whole fucking memory that I had anyway, So well, okay.

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Speaker 1: So our guest today is the host of the podcast

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Speaker 1: Pulling the Thread, an author of On Our Best Behavior,

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Speaker 1: Elise Lonein. Hi, Elise, look who's here today? Hello?

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Speaker 4: This is exciting for me, you know, I love you.

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Speaker 1: Oh, thank you, honey. And this is Catherine, my producer. Hello,

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Speaker 1: and we are here to celebrate the launch of I

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Speaker 1: don't know why I'm holding this up like I'm Oprah

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Speaker 1: Winfrey because I don't have the studio owns, but I

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Speaker 1: guess I'm holding it up for Catherine, who's also read it.

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Speaker 1: Your new book which is called On Our Best Behavior,

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Speaker 1: The Seven Deadly Sins and The Price Women Pay to

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Speaker 1: Be Good, which is a very important book for every

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Speaker 1: woman and man to be reading. So that took me

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Speaker 1: a while because it's a heavy book, Like there's a

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Speaker 1: lot of information in there and a lot of history.

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Speaker 1: I think you do a good job of really kind

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Speaker 1: of bringing it back to yourself a lot, and the

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Speaker 1: ways that it's kind of imprinted itself in you and

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Speaker 1: your experiences in this world. And I think all women

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Speaker 1: should have to understand or should want to gain, I

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Speaker 1: guess a better understanding of where all of these ideas

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Speaker 1: that we have about our responsibilities in society came from

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Speaker 1: and how many millennia they have been making their mark

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Speaker 1: on us. Yeah, And what we are able to do

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Speaker 1: as women to kind of take our our own agency

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Speaker 1: back and stop the art of performing for others, Yes,

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Speaker 1: while also remaining true to who you are in the

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Speaker 1: idea that by doing that it even gives yourself more

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Speaker 1: room to give. Like, when we take care of ourselves,

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Speaker 1: we are able to take care of others in a

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Speaker 1: more impactful way. And if that's what we're trying to

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Speaker 1: do in the first place, is take care of everybody,

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Speaker 1: then we should really start with ourselves.

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Speaker 4: Can you just do my book tour for meat?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, no problem. Yeah, I just need a ton of

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Speaker 1: wee to constantly talk about the same thing. That's how

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Speaker 1: I make things exciting. Is I just add weed to it.

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Speaker 1: I'm like, okay, I can talk about this again, because

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Speaker 1: the book tour becomes very monotonous too. I know you

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Speaker 1: have to repeat yourself a little, So talk to me

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Speaker 1: and talk to us about your impetus for writing this

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Speaker 1: book and tell us a little bit about all of

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Speaker 1: your research and history.

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Speaker 4: Well, unsurprisingly, you may know this about me, but I

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Speaker 4: am a good girl. I have spent my life achieving

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Speaker 4: and trying to be the best at everything and every

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Speaker 4: sphere of my life. And I hit a point several

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Speaker 4: years ago where I have a recurring panic disorder. I

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Speaker 4: have a chronic hyperventilator and I hyperventilated for more than

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Speaker 4: a month and just hit a wall of trying to

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Speaker 4: understand what it was in me that was driving me

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Speaker 4: to try to reach some invisible finish line where I

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Speaker 4: would have safety and security and be loved and be enough.

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Speaker 4: And I recognized, despite everything that I had achieved and

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Speaker 4: how much I had done for other people, my family,

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Speaker 4: my coworkers, that I was only driving myself deeper into

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Speaker 4: a hole. I was the farthest I'd ever felt from

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Speaker 4: emotionally free or comfortable, and so I knew I needed

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Speaker 4: to address this, whatever it was in me, these invisible

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Speaker 4: voices that were telling me that I was bad, that

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Speaker 4: I wasn't enough, And that sort of began the journey

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Speaker 4: of what would it look like to actually turn and

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Speaker 4: face this rather than trying to continue to outrun it

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Speaker 4: and In that process, I came across this code of

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Speaker 4: goodness that is so obvious it's invisible, I think, to

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Speaker 4: all of us, and this punch card of goodness that

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Speaker 4: women specifically try to fulfill in our culture. Regardless of

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Speaker 4: whether you're raised in any religion or know anything about religion,

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Speaker 4: these are cultural rules at this point, and if you

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Speaker 4: actually don't achieve them, you deny them sloth, pride, envy, gluttony, greed.

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Speaker 1: Because we're treating they're so bad right to practice any

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Speaker 1: of these things.

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Speaker 4: Yes, that I recognized in that all the ways that

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Speaker 4: I was policing myself and sadly policing other women.

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Speaker 3: M hm.

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Speaker 1: Yes, that very much struck a chord with me. When

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Speaker 1: you're talking about the judgment we have, I'm a very

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Speaker 1: judgmental person, so I struggle with this a lot because

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Speaker 1: I'm always trying to just go at everybody with love

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Speaker 1: and no judgment. But I'm so opinionated. So it's just

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Speaker 1: a fucking pain in the ass. But it's not fair

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Speaker 1: to judge everybody. It's not fuch fair to judge anybody.

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Speaker 1: You're supposed to be looking at people with sympathy and

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Speaker 1: compassion and empathy and no judgment. I mean, I can't

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Speaker 1: wait till one day feel that, you know for more

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Speaker 1: than a couple of fleeting seconds. So talk to me.

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Speaker 1: How you recognize that in yourself?

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Speaker 4: Yeah? Well, the big question that I feel like I've

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Speaker 4: been circling for most of my adult life, definitely since

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Speaker 4: twenty sixteen and the election, is why do women have

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Speaker 4: so much trouble getting on side with each other? What

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Speaker 4: is it in us that makes us so it feels instinctual.

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Speaker 4: I don't think it's instinctual. I think it's culture. But

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Speaker 4: why do we slap each other down? And why is

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Speaker 4: it so acceptable to dismiss each other with comments like

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Speaker 4: I just don't like her, or who does she think

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Speaker 4: she is? Or she's too big for her breches? And

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Speaker 4: these are all cultural refrains we've said, we've heard, most

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Speaker 4: likely we haven't interrupted them in ourselves and in conversation

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Speaker 4: with each other. And I really wanted to understand that

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Speaker 4: in myself. Why did I have that reaction to specific women,

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Speaker 4: not all women? And what I realized I sort of

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Speaker 4: started with envy. It's a gateway drug. I realized that

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Speaker 4: those women that were bothering me were women who were

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Speaker 4: pushing on a dream I had for myself and they

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Speaker 4: had something. It was envy, They had something that I

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Speaker 4: wanted for myself, and I just couldn't actually admit my

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Speaker 4: own wanting or acknowledge it. And I think we're all

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Speaker 4: conditioned to suppress it. It comes up, and we suppress

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Speaker 4: that wanting and we just attack. That's what I think

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Speaker 4: is happening.

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Speaker 1: Yes, I think that's a great way to describe it,

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Speaker 1: because you can, I mean, anyone listening to this can

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Speaker 1: relate to feeling envious of another person and then what

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Speaker 1: those feelings bring up for you or that you're supposed

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Speaker 1: to shove them away, And it's like that's actually part

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Speaker 1: of your psyche or you can call it your shadow

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Speaker 1: self or whatever you want to refer to it as.

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Speaker 1: But those are natural thoughts that have that happen, and

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Speaker 1: it's your job to put them in the right compartment,

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Speaker 1: you know, not to act on them, not to behave

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Speaker 1: in a jealous way or behave in an envious way,

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Speaker 1: but to acknowledge I mean, or you can. I mean,

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Speaker 1: it's really up to how you want to play this

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Speaker 1: game of life. It is like, how do you want

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Speaker 1: to operate within all of these dynamics and self agency

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Speaker 1: and self respect allow you to acknowledge that you even

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Speaker 1: have those feelings and they're not the most powerful feeling. Yes,

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Speaker 1: or what that feeling leads to, which is a truth

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Speaker 1: that you're not willing yet to admit to yourself. Yes,

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Speaker 1: which is I want that.

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Speaker 4: One thousand percent. It's full of really essential information. I

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Speaker 4: think that our envy is our soul knocking on a

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Speaker 4: door asking us to pay attention to what we want.

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Speaker 4: And in our culture, unfortunately, women have been conditioned to

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Speaker 4: subjugate what we want to other people's needs. It's just

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Speaker 4: being a woman, one a one. We don't have great

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Speaker 4: models culturally of identifying what you want and then going

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Speaker 4: after it, and there aren't that many women also culturally.

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Speaker 4: I'm sure it can relate to this, and I write

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Speaker 4: about this in the chapter on pride. We don't have

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Speaker 4: very many examples of highly visible women, women who have

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Speaker 4: dared to be seen, women who are really living their dream,

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Speaker 4: who have managed to escape cultural destruction. Right like so

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Speaker 4: many women, business leaders, athletes, actresses, singers follow this trajectory

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Speaker 4: where we love them when they're coming out, we applaud them,

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Speaker 4: we celebrate them. They reach a certain pinnacle and then

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Speaker 4: we destroy them, and we can say that those people

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Speaker 4: have nothing to do with us, like people like you

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Speaker 4: and me, Catherine. We can say, oh that we can

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Speaker 4: get a little hit of schadenfreude or just find it

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Speaker 4: kind of entertaining. But the reality is that lives in

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Speaker 4: us too. It lives in all young girls. This is

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Speaker 4: a playbook. This is what happens to women, and when

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Speaker 4: we celebrate it, we're inhibiting ourselves from being seen too.

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Speaker 4: It has really really deep implications I think for all women.

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Speaker 1: Yes, it's something that it would be nice to have

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Speaker 1: a language for young little girls, you know, and boys,

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Speaker 1: everybody really, because who doesn't get envious of another person's accomplishments.

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Speaker 1: But there's this dismantling that needs to be done about

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Speaker 1: the way that we're taught about those feelings and all

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Speaker 1: the seven deadly sins that we're not supposed to feel.

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Speaker 1: I mean it, basically, your book speaks to the fact

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Speaker 1: that patriarchy was invented with religion. You're not saying that,

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Speaker 1: but that's what I'm saying. That's where all of everything

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Speaker 1: started to get murky. And even in this book, I

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Speaker 1: read Short History on Humanity, a few weeks ago, and

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Speaker 1: that goes back to like two million years ago, and

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Speaker 1: it goes back to when civilization began and the migration pattern,

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Speaker 1: and it starts to understand when women became property because

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Speaker 1: of burial sites like you can see that there was

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Speaker 1: a change in civilization and when it's what started out

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Speaker 1: equally ended up being they ended up being subjugated, and

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Speaker 1: that was definitely because of religion.

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Speaker 4: Yeah. Well, and I would say I'd take that one

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Speaker 4: step farther and say, you have sort of the Hamarabi's code.

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Speaker 4: This for early patriarchal ideology, which was all about destroying women,

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Speaker 4: like drowning women and penalizing men slightly with like a

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Speaker 4: slap in the hand. And then you when your hand job, yeah,

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Speaker 4: or hand job if you really transfer the penal code exactly.

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Speaker 4: But then with Judeo Christian religion in Rome just really

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Speaker 4: taking over, you see this moralizing that comes into it

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Speaker 4: as well. So it's not just about oppressive dominance, subjec

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Speaker 4: subjucation of women. It's about you are bad and base

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Speaker 4: and maybe you'll make it to heaven if you spend

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Speaker 4: your life trying to prove your goodness.

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Speaker 1: Well, interestingly enough, there's also evidence to show or direct

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Speaker 1: you to the idea that this is one stage of

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Speaker 1: civilization and then so it started out with patriarchy, then

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Speaker 1: went to patriarchy, and then the next stage it could

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Speaker 1: be some conjecture, will be androgeny.

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Speaker 4: Yes, isn't that I love this idea.

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Speaker 1: I also love this idea.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, And I feel like that's what the contemporary trans

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Speaker 4: movement is moving us toward, this idea of transcending gender

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Speaker 4: and gender identities and living balanced between energies the masculine

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Speaker 4: and the feminine. Regardless of gender, we all have both energies.

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Speaker 4: I think women can really identify with this. The masculine

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Speaker 4: being order, structure, truth, when you're directing, when you're organizing,

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Speaker 4: when you're making stuff happen. The feminine is nurturance, care, creativity,

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Speaker 4: and men have feminine energy and desperately need to be

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Speaker 4: living that in their lives fully in the creative, nurturance

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Speaker 4: carrying component of self. And so I think with the

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Speaker 4: trans movement, we're seeing like it doesn't matter what your

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Speaker 4: body parts are, these are universal human values and it

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Speaker 4: is incumbent on all of us to be balanced in both.

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Speaker 1: And imagine the lack of gender discrimination when there is

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Speaker 1: no gender Yeah, like hello, that's what we need to like.

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Speaker 1: I mean, there's so many advantages to understanding this movement

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Speaker 1: and learning about this movement instead of rejecting it. Because

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Speaker 1: if you only think there's a boy and a girl,

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Speaker 1: which is so dumb, in certain places in the world

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Speaker 1: they already have a third sex. Yes, so that makes sense.

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Speaker 1: And knowing that everything is a spectrum also, I think

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Speaker 1: it's really fascinating to understand that and how you know

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Speaker 1: our conditioning and what you're supposed to do. Even with

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Speaker 1: the little decisions in our lives every single day and

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Speaker 1: the minutia, we do what everybody else is doing most

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Speaker 1: of the time without having our own original ideas or

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Speaker 1: thoughts about counteracting that kind of behavior or making a

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Speaker 1: decision not based on what other people made their decision

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Speaker 1: on yes.

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Speaker 3: No.

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Speaker 4: And I think like you, for example, to me, are

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Speaker 4: sort of a post hratriarchal person, and you're an incredibly

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Speaker 4: good interrupter of this programming that runs in US. I

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Speaker 4: feel like you have an ability to sort of stop

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Speaker 4: it and question it and evaluate it and then take

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Speaker 4: it or leave it in a way that I think

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Speaker 4: the rest of us need to develop this ability to

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Speaker 4: sort of say, is this what's running me? Is this me?

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Speaker 4: Or is this just some sort of conditioning that is

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Speaker 4: informing my behavior? And if we could do that and

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Speaker 4: get closer to ourselves and say, yes, I'm a woman

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Speaker 4: and I'm a mother or in your not a mother,

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Speaker 4: that doesn't mean that I am that that identity defines me,

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Speaker 4: that I am only those things. You know, we have

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Speaker 4: a lot of trouble with sort of the complexity. We

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Speaker 4: really want women to be only caring and nurturing and

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Speaker 4: men to only be this and it's a cage.

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Speaker 2: It's a terrible cage.

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Speaker 1: What were you saying, Catherine, You were saying something about

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Speaker 1: our book before when we were talking.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I was telling Chelsea, you know one of the

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Speaker 2: most meaningful parts of your book was that first introductory

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Speaker 2: portion where you're talking about the history of where patriarchy

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Speaker 2: comes from, having grown up very religious and basically going

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Speaker 2: to church seven days a week between.

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Speaker 1: School, and so sorry about that. Is it's you? Thank you.

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Speaker 2: I've been spending the last couple of years sort of

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Speaker 2: dismantling a lot of this stuff and being able to

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Speaker 2: see where this stuff comes from. You know that Mary

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Speaker 2: magg Delane was you know, called a prostitute, even though

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Speaker 2: that was like maybe not not what was going on.

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Speaker 1: It wasn't what was going on right, right.

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Speaker 2: She was exonerated by the pope a couple of years ago.

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Speaker 2: But like the damage has already done. But like between

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Speaker 2: your book, it's like when you see these things, when

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Speaker 2: you read these things, your eyes are opened to like, oh,

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Speaker 2: here's what's these thoughts are coming up in me, and

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Speaker 2: they're just it doesn't mean they're true just because they're

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Speaker 2: coming up. It's because of something I learned when I

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Speaker 2: was very young that's maybe based on nothing.

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Speaker 4: Yes, my friend calls it Bible fanfic. Uh huh. I

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Speaker 4: mean the deadly sins weren't in the Bible, and I

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Speaker 4: think most people never make that connection. It just these

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Speaker 4: things are passed down to us, like law, and when

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Speaker 4: you actually start to look at and you look at

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Speaker 4: something like the New Testament, and we could nerd out

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Speaker 4: on it, but just the number of mistranslations of the

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Speaker 4: New Testament are higher than the number of words, and

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Speaker 4: like some devastating ones, you know, like the Creation of

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Speaker 4: Virginity was translation from Hebrew to Greek, and Beulah means

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Speaker 4: young woman. It has nothing to do with sexual state.

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Speaker 4: That's the original hubut rub has nothing to do with

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Speaker 4: whether you're married or not. Just means young woman. That

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Speaker 4: was translated as virgin. Oh nice, thanks for that, it's great.

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Speaker 2: Wow. Could you also talk a little bit about I

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Speaker 2: know in your book you include sadness, which was originally

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Speaker 2: one of the seven deadly sins? There were eight.

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Speaker 1: Can you talk a little bit about that and did

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Speaker 1: they cut that one?

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Speaker 4: It just well convenient. So briefly, the history is that

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Speaker 4: they were called eight thoughts, as you said, demonic thoughts,

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Speaker 4: but demon meaning distraction, and they were first written down

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Speaker 4: by this by.

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Speaker 1: The way, at least speaks fluent Latin, so watch your back.

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Speaker 4: Oh oh god. So they were first written down by

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Speaker 4: this monk in the Egyptian desert, Evagrius Ponticus, as eight

403
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Speaker 4: thoughts and these distracting thoughts. They didn't have this moral tone.

404
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Speaker 4: This is at the same time that the New Testament

405
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Speaker 4: was being canonized. This is fourth century, and this little

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Speaker 4: chap book he wrote it as like a spell book,

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Speaker 4: almost of pits of scripture. It was passed around and

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Speaker 4: then it wasn't until five ninety that Pope Gregory the

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Speaker 4: first turned these thoughts, he dropped sadness, and he turned

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Speaker 4: the thoughts into the cardinal vices, the seven deadly sins,

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Speaker 4: And as you said, Catherine, in that same homily, he

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Speaker 4: assigned them all to Mary Magdalen, conflated her with a

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Speaker 4: woman who anointed Jesus's hair, and turned that woman into

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Speaker 4: a prostitute. So that's when Mary Magdalene miraculously became a prostitute,

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Speaker 4: and that's how they entered sort of mainstream religion and sadness.

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Speaker 4: We don't know why it went away. The way that

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Speaker 4: Evagris Pontikus wrote about.

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Speaker 1: It, he probably abolished it.

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Speaker 4: They abolished it exactly so it had a feminine soul.

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Speaker 4: So I think it fell off because these were assigned

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Speaker 4: primarily to women, and I write I really wanted to

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Speaker 4: include it in the book because I feel like our

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Speaker 4: culture is drenched in grief, and I think sadness, fear

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Speaker 4: of sadness is lodged primarily in the minds of men,

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Speaker 4: and that being cut off from our feelings. The primary

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Speaker 4: symptom of that is toxic masculinity, and this inability to

427
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Speaker 4: experience grief and to cycle and alloud death is why

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Speaker 4: we're all so screwed.

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Speaker 1: Even guys that are really sweet that don't have the

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Speaker 1: vocabulary to talk about this stuff end up having toxic

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Speaker 1: masculinity episodes when they are challenged with a difficult conversation

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Speaker 1: or they don't understand it because they think they're you know,

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Speaker 1: they don't have It's like there's like a major disconnect.

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Speaker 1: And I think in the book what you also talk

435
00:23:52,240 --> 00:23:56,480
Speaker 1: about very necessarily is even women are conditioned to push

436
00:23:56,560 --> 00:23:59,280
Speaker 1: their boys to grow up and be men and act

437
00:23:59,320 --> 00:24:02,119
Speaker 1: tough because there's a certain age where, you know, the

438
00:24:02,160 --> 00:24:05,760
Speaker 1: cuddling is diminished and the kids start to understand that

439
00:24:05,800 --> 00:24:08,400
Speaker 1: maybe holding my mommy's hand isn't what a big boy does,

440
00:24:08,440 --> 00:24:10,840
Speaker 1: and then they're not coming to you for comfort and

441
00:24:10,880 --> 00:24:13,520
Speaker 1: they're not having emotional outbursts anymore because they're told that's

442
00:24:13,560 --> 00:24:16,239
Speaker 1: not what little boys or big boys yeah do.

443
00:24:16,840 --> 00:24:19,919
Speaker 4: Yes, there is this idea, this cultural remnant, that we

444
00:24:20,000 --> 00:24:24,880
Speaker 4: have to turn boys into men. And you don't hear

445
00:24:24,960 --> 00:24:29,080
Speaker 4: that about women and girls, but there is this masculinization,

446
00:24:29,400 --> 00:24:31,800
Speaker 4: this pulling them away from their mother, so that if

447
00:24:31,800 --> 00:24:35,960
Speaker 4: you don't do that, they'll be enmeshed or entrapped and

448
00:24:36,359 --> 00:24:41,320
Speaker 4: the science actually shows that little baby boys are more feeling,

449
00:24:41,680 --> 00:24:46,400
Speaker 4: have more attachment than girls. And so it is a

450
00:24:46,440 --> 00:24:49,960
Speaker 4: horrible crime the way that so many boys and I

451
00:24:49,960 --> 00:24:52,000
Speaker 4: feel like it's getting better, but we think about our

452
00:24:52,040 --> 00:24:58,119
Speaker 4: generation and a lot of empathy for that severing and

453
00:24:58,160 --> 00:25:00,480
Speaker 4: that severance, and it's it goes beyond family, right, This

454
00:25:00,600 --> 00:25:03,679
Speaker 4: is all cultural re enforce that with each other. So

455
00:25:04,840 --> 00:25:07,960
Speaker 4: you're mocked on the playground for crying, you learn fast

456
00:25:08,480 --> 00:25:09,920
Speaker 4: right to not do that.

457
00:25:10,640 --> 00:25:13,479
Speaker 2: And I love that you conflate toxic masculinity with like

458
00:25:13,600 --> 00:25:16,359
Speaker 2: keeping men away from those feelings of sadness, because what

459
00:25:16,400 --> 00:25:18,480
Speaker 2: do we do when we're having an argument. We use

460
00:25:18,600 --> 00:25:21,400
Speaker 2: anger as like a shield from what's really underneath, which

461
00:25:21,440 --> 00:25:23,680
Speaker 2: is hurt and sadness. You know, That's why so often

462
00:25:23,680 --> 00:25:26,840
Speaker 2: you might be upset or you know, shouting or whatever,

463
00:25:27,359 --> 00:25:29,879
Speaker 2: and what's really underneath there when you actually get to

464
00:25:29,880 --> 00:25:32,119
Speaker 2: it is tears, it's crying, it's you know, it's the

465
00:25:32,200 --> 00:25:32,920
Speaker 2: hurt underneath.

466
00:25:33,359 --> 00:25:39,040
Speaker 4: Yes, a thousand percent, anger is often secondary to grief, shame, fear,

467
00:25:39,960 --> 00:25:43,200
Speaker 4: and anger is also essential and animating, but it can

468
00:25:43,240 --> 00:25:45,680
Speaker 4: often be a protective, a piece of armor.

469
00:25:45,760 --> 00:25:49,960
Speaker 1: But it's also not useful, maybe at times it may

470
00:25:50,000 --> 00:25:54,320
Speaker 1: seem useful, like coming from somebody who's naturally pretty angry,

471
00:25:54,640 --> 00:25:57,040
Speaker 1: it seemed useful for a long time, but it is

472
00:25:57,080 --> 00:25:59,560
Speaker 1: not the way to make my point anymore. And I

473
00:26:00,119 --> 00:26:04,560
Speaker 1: down that calm, collected and thoughtful yields to much better results.

474
00:26:04,920 --> 00:26:07,680
Speaker 4: And don't you think, though, that you have learned over

475
00:26:07,720 --> 00:26:12,280
Speaker 4: time to metabolize your anger process it, Listen to it,

476
00:26:12,400 --> 00:26:13,840
Speaker 4: you don't just suppress it.

477
00:26:14,200 --> 00:26:17,320
Speaker 1: No, no, no, And usually I'm not angry when I

478
00:26:17,359 --> 00:26:18,840
Speaker 1: have any time to think about anything.

479
00:26:19,160 --> 00:26:21,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, when you do skip the anger part, or you

480
00:26:21,520 --> 00:26:23,720
Speaker 2: get past the anger part and you get to that

481
00:26:23,800 --> 00:26:26,800
Speaker 2: vulnerability and that hurt, Like, that's where resolution can come.

482
00:26:26,880 --> 00:26:29,120
Speaker 2: That's the only place resolution can come, is when you're

483
00:26:29,160 --> 00:26:30,800
Speaker 2: honest with whatever the hurt is.

484
00:26:31,040 --> 00:26:34,480
Speaker 4: Yeah. But I do think we're so hard culturally on

485
00:26:34,560 --> 00:26:38,520
Speaker 4: angry women, and so so many women are swallowing it

486
00:26:38,680 --> 00:26:42,960
Speaker 4: their resentment, frustration, rage.

487
00:26:42,840 --> 00:26:45,320
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. My friend used to be like, you're so

488
00:26:45,320 --> 00:26:47,520
Speaker 1: so rage She's like, why are you so angry? I'm like,

489
00:26:47,600 --> 00:26:50,000
Speaker 1: you're more angry than me. I'm just saying it, and

490
00:26:50,040 --> 00:26:53,560
Speaker 1: you're fucking suppressing it and talking about everybody behind their back.

491
00:26:53,960 --> 00:26:56,840
Speaker 1: What is that a more honorable way? To live.

492
00:26:57,080 --> 00:26:59,720
Speaker 4: Yes, well, and this is this is our conditioning. I mean,

493
00:26:59,760 --> 00:27:02,560
Speaker 4: you might be again like an example for all of

494
00:27:02,640 --> 00:27:05,720
Speaker 4: us of how to live beyond these sins. But boys

495
00:27:05,760 --> 00:27:08,240
Speaker 4: and girls have a lot of aggression. It's very natural

496
00:27:08,240 --> 00:27:10,919
Speaker 4: and very human, and boys we let them express it

497
00:27:10,960 --> 00:27:14,960
Speaker 4: physically and verbally, and girls we don't. When we don't

498
00:27:14,960 --> 00:27:18,040
Speaker 4: teach any kids proper conflict resolution or how to have

499
00:27:18,160 --> 00:27:21,400
Speaker 4: healthy conflict, which is an essential life skill, but girls

500
00:27:21,480 --> 00:27:25,560
Speaker 4: are taught that they shouldn't be angry. It's not feminine,

501
00:27:25,880 --> 00:27:36,400
Speaker 4: it's inappropriate, and so it comes outsideways, gossip, alliance building, backstabbing, exclusion, triangulation, triangulation.

502
00:27:36,960 --> 00:27:40,840
Speaker 4: Really it's killing us. And then what's most painful about

503
00:27:40,840 --> 00:27:43,640
Speaker 4: that is that it's then ascribed to us as our

504
00:27:43,760 --> 00:27:47,080
Speaker 4: natural instinct like this, that's how you are, That's how

505
00:27:47,119 --> 00:27:49,840
Speaker 4: you are. And it's no, we're just not interrupting these

506
00:27:49,880 --> 00:27:53,640
Speaker 4: cycles and talking about learning how to talk about our

507
00:27:53,720 --> 00:27:58,040
Speaker 4: feelings and our aggression and our frustration openly and productively.

508
00:27:58,440 --> 00:28:01,840
Speaker 1: I heard this couple talking on Instagram, this older couple

509
00:28:01,880 --> 00:28:05,600
Speaker 1: talking about their child coming forward about you know, being

510
00:28:05,640 --> 00:28:07,679
Speaker 1: born a boy but identifying as a girl from the

511
00:28:07,680 --> 00:28:10,480
Speaker 1: time she was a little girl and her parents resisting this,

512
00:28:11,200 --> 00:28:14,800
Speaker 1: and you know, their church going and they believed everything

513
00:28:14,800 --> 00:28:16,479
Speaker 1: in church and that it was a phase and that

514
00:28:16,520 --> 00:28:19,480
Speaker 1: they could you know, they just ignored her. And the

515
00:28:19,560 --> 00:28:22,879
Speaker 1: mother had something really powerful to say about when she

516
00:28:23,000 --> 00:28:25,640
Speaker 1: finally was able to accept it and sit down and

517
00:28:25,680 --> 00:28:28,280
Speaker 1: hear her, which I think is really what it comes

518
00:28:28,320 --> 00:28:31,520
Speaker 1: down to, is everybody being seen and heard. When you

519
00:28:31,560 --> 00:28:34,520
Speaker 1: are heard by the people that love you like, that

520
00:28:34,720 --> 00:28:39,080
Speaker 1: sets you off on the road to love and acceptance.

521
00:28:39,280 --> 00:28:42,560
Speaker 1: It sets you up for success, to be accepted by

522
00:28:42,600 --> 00:28:46,080
Speaker 1: your parents and loved and encouraged no matter what you are,

523
00:28:46,760 --> 00:28:50,320
Speaker 1: just for that embrace and the rejection of that sets

524
00:28:50,400 --> 00:28:53,840
Speaker 1: you on the road that can be irreparable. Yes, and

525
00:28:53,880 --> 00:28:56,240
Speaker 1: this woman said, as soon as I accepted what my

526
00:28:56,400 --> 00:28:58,720
Speaker 1: child was telling me, and as soon as I sat

527
00:28:58,760 --> 00:29:01,800
Speaker 1: down and listened to her, and my husband and I

528
00:29:01,880 --> 00:29:06,000
Speaker 1: stopped fighting and just started hearing, she goes, the love

529
00:29:06,480 --> 00:29:10,240
Speaker 1: that my daughter had like lit her up. She goes,

530
00:29:10,240 --> 00:29:13,080
Speaker 1: she felt so loved by us, and she her whole

531
00:29:13,240 --> 00:29:16,920
Speaker 1: energy and dynamic changed and she finally was like happy

532
00:29:17,000 --> 00:29:20,520
Speaker 1: and joyful just by the act of her parents accepting.

533
00:29:20,720 --> 00:29:24,240
Speaker 4: Yes. Yes, I mean it's so powerful and that's all

534
00:29:24,240 --> 00:29:27,600
Speaker 4: that any of us want is to be seen, heard,

535
00:29:28,120 --> 00:29:30,480
Speaker 4: but more intensely understood, I think.

536
00:29:30,720 --> 00:29:34,680
Speaker 1: Not labeled, understood, you know. And this is a conversation

537
00:29:34,720 --> 00:29:36,400
Speaker 1: that came up around that video because I watched it

538
00:29:36,440 --> 00:29:38,960
Speaker 1: with a friend of mine and she was like, I said,

539
00:29:39,000 --> 00:29:41,520
Speaker 1: don't you think most people's fear about their children being

540
00:29:41,560 --> 00:29:43,960
Speaker 1: trans is that they're going to endure all this abuse

541
00:29:44,560 --> 00:29:46,240
Speaker 1: and that they're you know, they're going to be subjected

542
00:29:46,280 --> 00:29:50,480
Speaker 1: to such discrimination and you know, bad behavior. And she said, no,

543
00:29:50,680 --> 00:29:53,800
Speaker 1: I think some parents that a parent's outlook should be

544
00:29:54,520 --> 00:29:56,920
Speaker 1: oh no, I'm going to make sure that everybody knows

545
00:29:56,920 --> 00:29:58,600
Speaker 1: as much as they know about this, and I'm going

546
00:29:58,680 --> 00:30:00,280
Speaker 1: to protect you and I'm going to be there right

547
00:30:00,320 --> 00:30:02,920
Speaker 1: by your side. That's the way they could be looking

548
00:30:02,960 --> 00:30:06,040
Speaker 1: at it. And I thought, oh wow, yeah, that is right.

549
00:30:06,240 --> 00:30:08,760
Speaker 4: Yeah, no, And I'm sure it's a whole wash. I mean,

550
00:30:08,800 --> 00:30:11,240
Speaker 4: my brother is gay and we grew up in Montana,

551
00:30:11,280 --> 00:30:13,360
Speaker 4: and I remember when he came out it was right

552
00:30:13,400 --> 00:30:17,440
Speaker 4: around Matthew Shepherd, right, and so my parents, who are

553
00:30:17,440 --> 00:30:21,760
Speaker 4: really progressive, were we all knew, right, But a big

554
00:30:21,800 --> 00:30:26,920
Speaker 4: part of it was major understandable fear about what would

555
00:30:26,960 --> 00:30:29,920
Speaker 4: happen to him Ben in the wider world, and he

556
00:30:29,960 --> 00:30:32,200
Speaker 4: didn't say in Montana or yeah, no, of course he.

557
00:30:32,120 --> 00:30:34,840
Speaker 1: Didn't say Montana. Why would you. I wouldn't go to Montana.

558
00:30:36,320 --> 00:30:39,600
Speaker 1: Montana's beautiful, I think, by the way, Actually, so I

559
00:30:39,600 --> 00:30:41,120
Speaker 1: guess I do just go there. I'm not sure.

560
00:30:41,840 --> 00:30:43,600
Speaker 4: I think that's where I did my back to schools shop.

561
00:30:43,680 --> 00:30:46,400
Speaker 1: Oh right, right, right, right right on the other side

562
00:30:46,440 --> 00:30:49,200
Speaker 1: of the path. Okay, Well, we are going to have

563
00:30:49,280 --> 00:30:51,840
Speaker 1: some callers, Catherine, are you gonna get us up for

564
00:30:51,920 --> 00:30:52,560
Speaker 1: this episode?

565
00:30:52,840 --> 00:30:56,920
Speaker 2: Yes, We've got some overwhelmed moms, We've got some people

566
00:30:56,960 --> 00:30:59,840
Speaker 2: who need love advice, we've got some cheating boyfriends. A

567
00:31:00,080 --> 00:31:01,760
Speaker 2: lot of different stuff and all kind of relates to

568
00:31:01,800 --> 00:31:04,720
Speaker 2: the patriarchy. So great, We'll take a quick break and

569
00:31:04,760 --> 00:31:09,640
Speaker 2: we'll be right back with Elisa and Chelsea.

570
00:31:11,040 --> 00:31:11,920
Speaker 1: And we're back.

571
00:31:12,200 --> 00:31:12,760
Speaker 3: We're back.

572
00:31:13,880 --> 00:31:18,200
Speaker 2: Well, our first question comes from Carter. Carter writes, Dear Chelsea,

573
00:31:18,760 --> 00:31:21,120
Speaker 2: for the last eight years, I've devoted most of my

574
00:31:21,240 --> 00:31:24,560
Speaker 2: time and energy to my career and family. My parents

575
00:31:24,600 --> 00:31:27,120
Speaker 2: and my sibling depend on me for emotional and often

576
00:31:27,160 --> 00:31:31,680
Speaker 2: financial support, which puts me under immense pressure. Feeling stretched

577
00:31:31,680 --> 00:31:34,600
Speaker 2: thin has become normal for me, and I realized that

578
00:31:34,840 --> 00:31:37,280
Speaker 2: I haven't had any real fun in a very long time.

579
00:31:37,960 --> 00:31:41,480
Speaker 2: I'm thirty two, single and way too responsible for my age.

580
00:31:41,920 --> 00:31:44,400
Speaker 2: How do I start to bring joy back into my life?

581
00:31:44,520 --> 00:31:46,800
Speaker 2: What are some easy ways to begin to make joy

582
00:31:46,880 --> 00:31:49,240
Speaker 2: a habit? Thank you both for the wisdom you share

583
00:31:49,240 --> 00:31:50,080
Speaker 2: on the podcast.

584
00:31:50,080 --> 00:31:55,840
Speaker 1: Carter to practice joy, Well, I guess that is a practice.

585
00:31:55,920 --> 00:31:57,920
Speaker 1: But once you get it, you have it. So you

586
00:31:58,000 --> 00:32:00,960
Speaker 1: got to start practicing because it is a practice. It's

587
00:32:01,000 --> 00:32:03,960
Speaker 1: like for my practice is patients, I have to practice that.

588
00:32:04,040 --> 00:32:05,640
Speaker 1: I have to practice that, and now it's coming much

589
00:32:05,640 --> 00:32:08,560
Speaker 1: more naturally. I think joy is about finding what brings

590
00:32:08,600 --> 00:32:11,200
Speaker 1: you the joy, Like what lightens you up where you

591
00:32:11,240 --> 00:32:15,200
Speaker 1: feel kind of tingly? Like is it nature? Is it exercises?

592
00:32:15,240 --> 00:32:18,240
Speaker 1: It work? Is it reading? Like? What is your passion?

593
00:32:18,360 --> 00:32:21,440
Speaker 1: You have to identify certain passions that you have. And

594
00:32:21,480 --> 00:32:23,520
Speaker 1: I think when you realize, you know you don't have

595
00:32:23,560 --> 00:32:26,360
Speaker 1: to be good at a million different things or like

596
00:32:26,440 --> 00:32:28,720
Speaker 1: a million different things, Like you can be drawn to

597
00:32:28,800 --> 00:32:30,960
Speaker 1: two or three things, but make them a bigger part

598
00:32:31,000 --> 00:32:32,920
Speaker 1: of your life. Like if you're an artist, you need

599
00:32:32,960 --> 00:32:37,160
Speaker 1: to create. But I think if you're having trouble finding joy,

600
00:32:37,200 --> 00:32:41,640
Speaker 1: then I think instead of looking harder, I would actually

601
00:32:41,680 --> 00:32:44,080
Speaker 1: advise you to just be a little bit lighter about

602
00:32:44,080 --> 00:32:46,520
Speaker 1: it and take note of yourself, like be in your

603
00:32:46,560 --> 00:32:49,240
Speaker 1: body a little bit more and see what brings you joy,

604
00:32:49,520 --> 00:32:52,120
Speaker 1: because that's what you have to surround your day around,

605
00:32:52,240 --> 00:32:54,080
Speaker 1: you know, Like I love to read books. I need

606
00:32:54,120 --> 00:32:55,800
Speaker 1: to read at least like an hour or two hours

607
00:32:55,800 --> 00:32:59,800
Speaker 1: a day that brings me deep satisfaction and sometimes joy.

608
00:32:59,840 --> 00:33:02,640
Speaker 1: But sometimes you know, it's heavier stuff like reading your

609
00:33:02,640 --> 00:33:06,080
Speaker 1: book was so informational and so helpful, but I came

610
00:33:06,120 --> 00:33:09,440
Speaker 1: away with such a bigger breadth of knowledge than I

611
00:33:09,480 --> 00:33:12,640
Speaker 1: had started your book with, so so worthwhile. But I

612
00:33:12,680 --> 00:33:15,360
Speaker 1: think that's what you have to find about out about yourself.

613
00:33:15,440 --> 00:33:18,400
Speaker 1: But that's me sounding off. What do you have to say, Elise.

614
00:33:18,160 --> 00:33:20,280
Speaker 4: Well, I'm glad to hear Carter use the word joy

615
00:33:20,520 --> 00:33:23,480
Speaker 4: because I think in our culture we're taught to look

616
00:33:23,520 --> 00:33:27,720
Speaker 4: for happiness as a steady state, which drives me crazy.

617
00:33:27,880 --> 00:33:31,280
Speaker 1: Yes, absolutely, that's that's stupid. Also, I want to say

618
00:33:31,280 --> 00:33:34,040
Speaker 1: that it's impossible to be happy all the time. Joy

619
00:33:34,160 --> 00:33:35,560
Speaker 1: is something separate than happiness.

620
00:33:35,640 --> 00:33:38,560
Speaker 4: It is and it's I think joy can be brief,

621
00:33:38,600 --> 00:33:42,280
Speaker 4: fleeting it is that, you know, Catherine's laugh it.

622
00:33:42,080 --> 00:33:45,240
Speaker 1: Is overwhelming gratitude for something in your life that can

623
00:33:45,280 --> 00:33:46,080
Speaker 1: bring you joy.

624
00:33:46,240 --> 00:33:49,120
Speaker 4: Yes, just that sort of It can be five seconds,

625
00:33:49,400 --> 00:33:51,720
Speaker 4: but I think that that's where you start. And finding

626
00:33:51,760 --> 00:33:54,280
Speaker 4: those moments where you do laugh out loud or you

627
00:33:54,360 --> 00:33:57,760
Speaker 4: have a nice moment with a barista is a great

628
00:33:57,920 --> 00:34:01,120
Speaker 4: place to start. And that's the reality of our lives

629
00:34:01,240 --> 00:34:05,000
Speaker 4: ups downs, that sort of emotional durability. So that's great

630
00:34:05,040 --> 00:34:08,120
Speaker 4: that Carter wants joy and not happiness, because we all

631
00:34:08,120 --> 00:34:11,200
Speaker 4: need to unplug from the toxic positivity.

632
00:34:11,520 --> 00:34:16,319
Speaker 1: That's toxic positivity. That's good. Yeah, Yeah, some people are

633
00:34:16,320 --> 00:34:17,239
Speaker 1: really annoying with that.

634
00:34:17,560 --> 00:34:20,000
Speaker 4: Yeah, And I think because it's hard. It sounds like

635
00:34:20,400 --> 00:34:24,640
Speaker 4: things are hard for Carter. You understand the underside, and

636
00:34:24,680 --> 00:34:27,920
Speaker 4: so just developing the upside sort of what you were

637
00:34:27,920 --> 00:34:31,960
Speaker 4: talking about, Chelsea. Just a great song. A quick walk

638
00:34:32,760 --> 00:34:35,760
Speaker 4: reminds you of what it is to have that full

639
00:34:36,480 --> 00:34:37,640
Speaker 4: emotional expression.

640
00:34:38,440 --> 00:34:41,799
Speaker 1: Yeah, and also to recognize it, you know, take your

641
00:34:41,840 --> 00:34:44,120
Speaker 1: time throughout your day to recognize what are the things

642
00:34:44,160 --> 00:34:46,080
Speaker 1: that perk you up, even if it's your coffee in

643
00:34:46,120 --> 00:34:48,400
Speaker 1: the morning, When you have that moment and you sit

644
00:34:48,480 --> 00:34:51,240
Speaker 1: with that moment and experience it, Like even the littlest

645
00:34:51,280 --> 00:34:54,040
Speaker 1: of joys, they start to kind of multiply and then

646
00:34:54,120 --> 00:34:56,719
Speaker 1: you start to understand and enjoy more and more of them.

647
00:34:56,800 --> 00:34:59,040
Speaker 1: So just pay attention to what you're feeling and thinking

648
00:34:59,080 --> 00:35:01,480
Speaker 1: for the next few days and pinpoint some of the

649
00:35:01,520 --> 00:35:03,280
Speaker 1: things that bring that feeling into your life.

650
00:35:03,880 --> 00:35:04,120
Speaker 3: Yeah.

651
00:35:04,160 --> 00:35:05,920
Speaker 2: I think it goes right back to what Alice and

652
00:35:05,960 --> 00:35:08,239
Speaker 2: Chelsea were saying at the beginning of the episode, which

653
00:35:08,280 --> 00:35:10,480
Speaker 2: is you can't pour from an empty cup. So if

654
00:35:10,480 --> 00:35:12,880
Speaker 2: you're giving all of this to your family, to your friends,

655
00:35:12,920 --> 00:35:14,960
Speaker 2: to whoever else needs stuff from you, you actually have

656
00:35:15,040 --> 00:35:19,359
Speaker 2: to do what you need for you first. Yes, well, Carter,

657
00:35:19,440 --> 00:35:21,640
Speaker 2: thank you for writing in and let us know what

658
00:35:21,680 --> 00:35:23,640
Speaker 2: solutions you find.

659
00:35:23,360 --> 00:35:24,880
Speaker 1: To give you more carters.

660
00:35:25,400 --> 00:35:29,160
Speaker 2: Yes, we have our first caller. This is Emily and

661
00:35:29,200 --> 00:35:30,240
Speaker 2: she's in her late twenties.

662
00:35:30,320 --> 00:35:31,400
Speaker 1: Is it Emily Dickinson?

663
00:35:32,040 --> 00:35:34,240
Speaker 2: It is, Uh, she's a lie.

664
00:35:34,400 --> 00:35:36,319
Speaker 1: I told her. She texted me earlier. I told her

665
00:35:36,320 --> 00:35:40,000
Speaker 1: to call in good. We're on the text thread.

666
00:35:42,560 --> 00:35:45,480
Speaker 2: Well, she writes, Dear Chelsea, I'm writing in because I

667
00:35:45,520 --> 00:35:48,799
Speaker 2: need some powerful woman love and advice. I just found

668
00:35:48,800 --> 00:35:50,760
Speaker 2: out my boyfriend of a year has been dating another

669
00:35:50,800 --> 00:35:54,400
Speaker 2: girl almost the entire time. I found photos in his

670
00:35:54,480 --> 00:35:57,520
Speaker 2: phone of them together, not snooping, and it makes me

671
00:35:57,600 --> 00:36:00,680
Speaker 2: sick to my stomach. She's trashy and she knew about me,

672
00:36:00,800 --> 00:36:04,360
Speaker 2: which makes them both disgusting. We were planning our future together,

673
00:36:04,560 --> 00:36:07,160
Speaker 2: we were talking about having babies and getting married, and

674
00:36:07,200 --> 00:36:08,880
Speaker 2: he was with her the whole time.

675
00:36:09,160 --> 00:36:09,680
Speaker 1: Gross.

676
00:36:09,800 --> 00:36:11,719
Speaker 2: Yeah, he would go on trips with her and tell

677
00:36:11,719 --> 00:36:13,319
Speaker 2: me it was a boy's weekend or he was out

678
00:36:13,320 --> 00:36:16,120
Speaker 2: with his family. I need some advice on how to

679
00:36:16,160 --> 00:36:18,799
Speaker 2: move on from this and get my power back. And yes,

680
00:36:18,880 --> 00:36:20,799
Speaker 2: I dumped his ass, but my heart is broken and

681
00:36:20,800 --> 00:36:24,480
Speaker 2: I can't stop picturing them together. Cheers Emily, Oh.

682
00:36:24,760 --> 00:36:29,280
Speaker 1: Emily, Hi, Emily, Hi, Hi, this is our guest Elise.

683
00:36:29,440 --> 00:36:31,319
Speaker 1: Say hi to Lalise and Catherine.

684
00:36:31,520 --> 00:36:32,520
Speaker 5: Hello, honest to meet you.

685
00:36:33,400 --> 00:36:36,080
Speaker 1: I'm so sorry, honey, that is such a betrayal like

686
00:36:36,239 --> 00:36:39,319
Speaker 1: ew that makes me so I can't even imagine how

687
00:36:39,320 --> 00:36:40,879
Speaker 1: painful that must be for you.

688
00:36:41,440 --> 00:36:43,759
Speaker 5: Yeah. I was very, very shocked, and he gave me

689
00:36:43,880 --> 00:36:46,680
Speaker 5: no warning signs at all, Like I never went through

690
00:36:46,680 --> 00:36:49,759
Speaker 5: his phone, like he never gave me any suspicion, So

691
00:36:49,960 --> 00:36:53,320
Speaker 5: I was pretty shocked. He also gave me a fake

692
00:36:53,400 --> 00:36:57,000
Speaker 5: Instagram account that said it was her and it wasn't her.

693
00:36:57,840 --> 00:37:00,680
Speaker 5: So I actually ended up finding out who actually was.

694
00:37:01,440 --> 00:37:03,080
Speaker 5: And they've been seeing each other for a couple of

695
00:37:03,120 --> 00:37:05,600
Speaker 5: months now, so yeah, I was. I was pretty shocked,

696
00:37:05,600 --> 00:37:06,120
Speaker 5: to be honest.

697
00:37:06,520 --> 00:37:08,520
Speaker 1: And so what did he do when you confronted him?

698
00:37:09,080 --> 00:37:09,279
Speaker 6: Oh?

699
00:37:09,280 --> 00:37:11,719
Speaker 5: He gasled me quite a bit. I was like, who

700
00:37:11,760 --> 00:37:13,360
Speaker 5: is this girl? And he said that it was his

701
00:37:13,480 --> 00:37:16,799
Speaker 5: ex from six years ago and he randomly ran into

702
00:37:16,800 --> 00:37:19,400
Speaker 5: her at Harrison Hot Springs together. So I did some

703
00:37:19,440 --> 00:37:21,560
Speaker 5: more and he was like, I knew that you would

704
00:37:21,560 --> 00:37:23,040
Speaker 5: do this. I know that you would do this, and

705
00:37:23,080 --> 00:37:25,719
Speaker 5: it was the U you used that he got me like,

706
00:37:25,760 --> 00:37:28,200
Speaker 5: I knew that you would go to Instagram and find

707
00:37:28,200 --> 00:37:30,440
Speaker 5: the cell blah blah blah. I'm like it makes no

708
00:37:30,480 --> 00:37:32,440
Speaker 5: fucking sense, Like who is she? Just fucking tell me

709
00:37:32,480 --> 00:37:35,760
Speaker 5: who she is, you know, And I was just shocked.

710
00:37:36,400 --> 00:37:39,080
Speaker 1: Yeah. No, that's traumatizing to have somebody lie to you

711
00:37:39,120 --> 00:37:40,400
Speaker 1: on that kind of level.

712
00:37:40,719 --> 00:37:42,200
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's deep betrayal.

713
00:37:42,320 --> 00:37:44,120
Speaker 1: Are you in therapy? No?

714
00:37:44,280 --> 00:37:46,640
Speaker 5: And I actually I listened to your podcast all the time.

715
00:37:46,680 --> 00:37:48,920
Speaker 5: I know you love therapy. I have never been to therapy.

716
00:37:48,920 --> 00:37:51,839
Speaker 1: You need to go, I know you need to go.

717
00:37:51,920 --> 00:37:54,120
Speaker 1: Because like, that's a terrible thing to have happened to you.

718
00:37:54,160 --> 00:37:57,080
Speaker 1: That's a major betrayal of trust, and in order to

719
00:37:57,080 --> 00:38:00,160
Speaker 1: work through that in a healthy, really adult way so

720
00:38:00,200 --> 00:38:02,600
Speaker 1: that you get through it sooner and you're not holding

721
00:38:02,640 --> 00:38:05,040
Speaker 1: onto resentment three or four years down the line. You

722
00:38:05,080 --> 00:38:08,279
Speaker 1: need somebody, like a really solid professional to talk you

723
00:38:08,320 --> 00:38:12,680
Speaker 1: through this on a regular, consistent level, because nobody deserves

724
00:38:12,680 --> 00:38:15,759
Speaker 1: to be treated like that, including yourself. Obviously, you know

725
00:38:15,800 --> 00:38:17,920
Speaker 1: that because you broke up with him. So that's the

726
00:38:17,920 --> 00:38:20,160
Speaker 1: first best news, is that you broke up with him

727
00:38:20,160 --> 00:38:22,520
Speaker 1: and that you have enough strong enough sense of yourself

728
00:38:22,560 --> 00:38:26,360
Speaker 1: to know that that's not acceptable to you. So great

729
00:38:26,560 --> 00:38:28,680
Speaker 1: for doing that. Good for you. It's hard to break

730
00:38:28,719 --> 00:38:30,360
Speaker 1: up with somebody when you love them, but like you

731
00:38:30,400 --> 00:38:32,759
Speaker 1: stood up for yourself and you respect yourself, so like

732
00:38:32,800 --> 00:38:37,080
Speaker 1: you're already on your road to recovery just by that action. Yeah.

733
00:38:37,320 --> 00:38:39,520
Speaker 5: No, I ripped up his orchid. He got me. I

734
00:38:39,600 --> 00:38:41,440
Speaker 5: put all his love letters and I put her on

735
00:38:41,480 --> 00:38:43,160
Speaker 5: a box of my patio, and so get your shit.

736
00:38:43,320 --> 00:38:44,120
Speaker 1: So good.

737
00:38:44,360 --> 00:38:46,480
Speaker 5: I'm doing a lot better. I'm in school now to

738
00:38:46,480 --> 00:38:49,160
Speaker 5: be a teacher, so I'm just focusing on that and

739
00:38:49,239 --> 00:38:51,400
Speaker 5: I'm really, I'm getting back into running and stuff, so

740
00:38:51,400 --> 00:38:53,840
Speaker 5: I'm doing a lot better, but I do think I

741
00:38:53,840 --> 00:38:55,520
Speaker 5: should probably go to therapy here, right.

742
00:38:55,800 --> 00:38:58,880
Speaker 4: Yeah, because you also need to restore trust in yourself,

743
00:38:59,200 --> 00:39:03,080
Speaker 4: and betray is hard in that you think that you

744
00:39:03,200 --> 00:39:05,760
Speaker 4: should have seen something or known something that was being

745
00:39:06,120 --> 00:39:10,239
Speaker 4: held from you. So you need to primarily restore your

746
00:39:10,280 --> 00:39:14,719
Speaker 4: own faith and your intuition and your sense. And then

747
00:39:14,760 --> 00:39:17,399
Speaker 4: I heard you also say it doesn't make any sense.

748
00:39:17,440 --> 00:39:19,439
Speaker 4: It doesn't make any sense. And so as you heal,

749
00:39:20,160 --> 00:39:25,120
Speaker 4: part of it is to disconnect from him energetically and

750
00:39:25,160 --> 00:39:28,319
Speaker 4: to stop trying to figure it out or justify it

751
00:39:28,560 --> 00:39:31,160
Speaker 4: or wonder what you missed. And it takes a lot

752
00:39:31,160 --> 00:39:34,640
Speaker 4: of self control to interrupt that. But you're not going

753
00:39:34,719 --> 00:39:36,799
Speaker 4: to figure it out. It doesn't make any sense, No.

754
00:39:37,040 --> 00:39:40,600
Speaker 1: It doesn't. It's not your problem. Really, anybody that duplicitous

755
00:39:40,680 --> 00:39:44,040
Speaker 1: isn't your problem. Like that's he's a liar, You excited

756
00:39:44,120 --> 00:39:46,640
Speaker 1: him from your life, and like it doesn't matter, and

757
00:39:46,680 --> 00:39:49,560
Speaker 1: you picturing him with that girl also doesn't matter. Who

758
00:39:49,600 --> 00:39:51,680
Speaker 1: gives a shit? Thank god you're not fucking with him,

759
00:39:51,960 --> 00:39:55,480
Speaker 1: thank god. Yes, Like what she did you a fucking

760
00:39:55,560 --> 00:39:58,799
Speaker 1: huge solid, So reframe the way you're looking at that

761
00:39:59,239 --> 00:40:01,160
Speaker 1: divine intervention. Yeah.

762
00:40:01,200 --> 00:40:03,320
Speaker 5: I even messaged her on Instagram and I said, the

763
00:40:03,440 --> 00:40:04,759
Speaker 5: girl a girl, can you just tell me?

764
00:40:05,160 --> 00:40:06,160
Speaker 3: And she just blocked me.

765
00:40:06,239 --> 00:40:09,120
Speaker 5: So I'm like, you have them, honey, he's yours. Yeah.

766
00:40:09,200 --> 00:40:11,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean you know what they say if you

767
00:40:11,520 --> 00:40:13,520
Speaker 2: wind up with the guy you were like having an

768
00:40:13,520 --> 00:40:16,080
Speaker 2: affair with, you were just creating a job opportunity.

769
00:40:16,360 --> 00:40:19,440
Speaker 1: So you know, I think that you are like a

770
00:40:19,480 --> 00:40:22,799
Speaker 1: great example of somebody getting through a relationship. I mean, listen,

771
00:40:22,840 --> 00:40:25,360
Speaker 1: you still should go to therapy, absolutely, but you seem

772
00:40:25,480 --> 00:40:27,640
Speaker 1: very solid and like this is good for women to

773
00:40:27,680 --> 00:40:29,719
Speaker 1: be hearing that you're already through the thick of it

774
00:40:30,040 --> 00:40:32,920
Speaker 1: in a short amount of time and that you are

775
00:40:33,000 --> 00:40:35,560
Speaker 1: identifying all of this kind of self awareness.

776
00:40:36,000 --> 00:40:38,160
Speaker 5: Yeah. No, I let myself cry for a couple of

777
00:40:38,200 --> 00:40:39,719
Speaker 5: days and then I was like through this, Like I'm

778
00:40:39,760 --> 00:40:41,960
Speaker 5: getting back on my shit. I wrote into you, I

779
00:40:42,000 --> 00:40:43,480
Speaker 5: talked to my mom, I talked to my friends, like

780
00:40:43,480 --> 00:40:44,560
Speaker 5: I have a really good circle.

781
00:40:45,120 --> 00:40:48,719
Speaker 1: So it just it sucked, you know, Yeah, No, it

782
00:40:48,840 --> 00:40:52,480
Speaker 1: does suck, and like, like, listen, that sucked, and hopefully

783
00:40:52,520 --> 00:40:54,320
Speaker 1: that will never happen to you again.

784
00:40:54,480 --> 00:40:58,400
Speaker 5: So I won't hopefully I'm not going Yeah, I was

785
00:40:58,480 --> 00:41:00,400
Speaker 5: just confused how I didn't see it.

786
00:41:00,200 --> 00:41:03,799
Speaker 1: But that doesn't matter. You can't see things when you're

787
00:41:03,840 --> 00:41:07,160
Speaker 1: in them. It. Don't self flagulate or blame yourself for

788
00:41:07,280 --> 00:41:10,879
Speaker 1: not identifying a situation as it was like. It may

789
00:41:10,920 --> 00:41:12,759
Speaker 1: not have been that way the whole time. It may

790
00:41:12,760 --> 00:41:14,680
Speaker 1: have been that you know, it may have developed like

791
00:41:15,000 --> 00:41:17,680
Speaker 1: it doesn't matter either. That doesn't matter either. All you

792
00:41:17,719 --> 00:41:19,560
Speaker 1: have to know is moving forward, like what you're willing

793
00:41:19,600 --> 00:41:21,439
Speaker 1: to tolerate and what you aren't. And you already said

794
00:41:21,440 --> 00:41:23,640
Speaker 1: that to the world by breaking up with him, which

795
00:41:23,680 --> 00:41:27,160
Speaker 1: is again a strong move, and your headed already in

796
00:41:27,160 --> 00:41:27,760
Speaker 1: the right direction.

797
00:41:27,840 --> 00:41:30,480
Speaker 4: Yeah, and don't go forward defended, So do whatever you

798
00:41:30,560 --> 00:41:34,160
Speaker 4: can to heal that so that you can go through

799
00:41:34,400 --> 00:41:35,640
Speaker 4: life heart open.

800
00:41:36,000 --> 00:41:40,120
Speaker 5: Yes, yeah, no, you're right. I'm just said of hitting

801
00:41:40,120 --> 00:41:42,120
Speaker 5: this summer to me and only me and all of

802
00:41:42,160 --> 00:41:43,600
Speaker 5: my goals and what I want to do.

803
00:41:43,719 --> 00:41:46,719
Speaker 1: So I love it. Okay, Well, take care. Thank you

804
00:41:46,760 --> 00:41:48,799
Speaker 1: so much for calling it, and best of luck to you.

805
00:41:48,880 --> 00:41:50,520
Speaker 1: We're sending you total good vibes.

806
00:41:50,880 --> 00:41:51,279
Speaker 3: Thank you.

807
00:41:51,360 --> 00:41:52,120
Speaker 5: I appreciate it.

808
00:41:52,719 --> 00:41:56,839
Speaker 2: Thanks Emily, Bye, Emily Bye. That I mean that goes

809
00:41:56,960 --> 00:41:59,319
Speaker 2: right back to what we were talking about before with

810
00:42:00,040 --> 00:42:01,600
Speaker 2: right now she's in the anger part and she's in

811
00:42:01,600 --> 00:42:04,000
Speaker 2: the like fuck that guy whatever. Like that's where she's

812
00:42:04,040 --> 00:42:07,120
Speaker 2: at right now, and you know, getting into therapy to

813
00:42:07,200 --> 00:42:09,319
Speaker 2: get past that a little bit and into the hurt

814
00:42:09,360 --> 00:42:11,880
Speaker 2: processing the heart like that will help her not carry

815
00:42:11,920 --> 00:42:14,800
Speaker 2: it with her. Yes, well, should we jump to another caller?

816
00:42:15,120 --> 00:42:15,719
Speaker 1: Yeah?

817
00:42:15,920 --> 00:42:18,080
Speaker 2: Our next caller is Amy.

818
00:42:18,640 --> 00:42:19,919
Speaker 3: She is thirty four.

819
00:42:20,200 --> 00:42:23,120
Speaker 2: Dear Chelsea, first of all, I adore you both. I'm

820
00:42:23,120 --> 00:42:25,719
Speaker 2: writing in because I probably need a swift kick in

821
00:42:25,760 --> 00:42:28,480
Speaker 2: the rear. I'm a former high school teacher who left

822
00:42:28,520 --> 00:42:31,319
Speaker 2: the profession after ten years, feeling completely beaten down by

823
00:42:31,320 --> 00:42:33,400
Speaker 2: the demands of the overall system of what we like

824
00:42:33,480 --> 00:42:34,600
Speaker 2: to call public education.

825
00:42:35,120 --> 00:42:37,600
Speaker 1: God, I don't fucking blame you. What a joke.

826
00:42:38,719 --> 00:42:40,759
Speaker 2: I have since focused on my two young children, who

827
00:42:40,760 --> 00:42:43,239
Speaker 2: are four and twenty two months. I love being a

828
00:42:43,280 --> 00:42:46,120
Speaker 2: stay at home mom, but eventually, sooner rather than later,

829
00:42:46,400 --> 00:42:47,000
Speaker 2: I would love.

830
00:42:46,920 --> 00:42:47,720
Speaker 4: To go back to work.

831
00:42:48,160 --> 00:42:50,040
Speaker 2: One career path I can't seem to get out of

832
00:42:50,040 --> 00:42:52,719
Speaker 2: my head is to be a personal trainer, more specifically

833
00:42:52,760 --> 00:42:55,719
Speaker 2: a coach at Orange Theory Fitness. I've been attending this

834
00:42:55,840 --> 00:42:58,240
Speaker 2: gym for about eight years. I have almost nine hundred

835
00:42:58,239 --> 00:43:00,719
Speaker 2: classes to my name. The problem is I don't have

836
00:43:00,760 --> 00:43:03,520
Speaker 2: the body type you envision when you imagine a personal trainer.

837
00:43:03,800 --> 00:43:06,400
Speaker 2: I'm short and chubby, but I'm in great shape. I'm

838
00:43:06,440 --> 00:43:08,839
Speaker 2: afraid Jim's won't hire me over this fact, as well

839
00:43:08,880 --> 00:43:11,839
Speaker 2: as clients not taking me seriously or believing I don't

840
00:43:11,840 --> 00:43:13,600
Speaker 2: know what I'm talking about because I'm in a slightly

841
00:43:13,600 --> 00:43:16,600
Speaker 2: bigger body. What do you ladies think? What a slightly

842
00:43:16,680 --> 00:43:19,000
Speaker 2: larger bodied person make you not want to take workout

843
00:43:19,040 --> 00:43:21,399
Speaker 2: advice from them? Or would it be refreshing to see

844
00:43:21,400 --> 00:43:23,680
Speaker 2: a different body type in the gym? Any advice or

845
00:43:23,719 --> 00:43:26,239
Speaker 2: opinions are appreciated. You both are doing amazing things and

846
00:43:26,280 --> 00:43:29,680
Speaker 2: inspire me Weekly Amy thirty four Nevada.

847
00:43:29,360 --> 00:43:33,040
Speaker 1: Hi, Amy, Hi, Hi, how are you?

848
00:43:33,480 --> 00:43:35,840
Speaker 3: I'm amazing, couldn't be better? How are you? Guys?

849
00:43:36,000 --> 00:43:38,080
Speaker 1: This is our special guest at Leise loan In today.

850
00:43:38,480 --> 00:43:40,320
Speaker 4: Yay, so nice to see to meet you.

851
00:43:40,960 --> 00:43:42,400
Speaker 3: Thank you well.

852
00:43:42,400 --> 00:43:45,960
Speaker 4: Have you actually applied or are you still just contemplating this?

853
00:43:46,280 --> 00:43:48,880
Speaker 6: I'm so contemplating. I'm still in this kind of awkward

854
00:43:48,920 --> 00:43:51,600
Speaker 6: place in my life where I'm trying to embrace the

855
00:43:51,680 --> 00:43:54,359
Speaker 6: stay at home mom life a little bit, but it's

856
00:43:54,360 --> 00:43:56,200
Speaker 6: already starting to get to me one year in. So

857
00:43:56,239 --> 00:43:59,200
Speaker 6: I'm thinking of avenues to you venture down and I

858
00:43:59,280 --> 00:44:00,919
Speaker 6: was thinking, what do I enjoy doing?

859
00:44:00,960 --> 00:44:02,640
Speaker 3: And I really enjoy working out.

860
00:44:03,120 --> 00:44:05,520
Speaker 6: I'm kind of the silly one in my friend group,

861
00:44:05,560 --> 00:44:08,000
Speaker 6: and you know, the coaches at my gym are really

862
00:44:08,080 --> 00:44:10,439
Speaker 6: upbeat and fun and they like really get you into

863
00:44:10,520 --> 00:44:11,000
Speaker 6: your workout.

864
00:44:11,040 --> 00:44:12,680
Speaker 3: And I was like, I could do this. You know,

865
00:44:12,680 --> 00:44:14,000
Speaker 3: I was a teacher for ten years.

866
00:44:14,000 --> 00:44:16,280
Speaker 6: I'm really good at being able to delegate my attention

867
00:44:16,480 --> 00:44:18,600
Speaker 6: and everything like that. So I was thinking, like, this

868
00:44:18,719 --> 00:44:20,880
Speaker 6: might be something I could really do. But I'm worried

869
00:44:20,920 --> 00:44:24,520
Speaker 6: about how I look. People might not take me seriously

870
00:44:24,800 --> 00:44:27,359
Speaker 6: just because I'm not in the best shape, you know

871
00:44:27,560 --> 00:44:28,400
Speaker 6: when you just look at me.

872
00:44:28,440 --> 00:44:30,799
Speaker 3: But I'm in the best shape for myself. But you know,

873
00:44:31,239 --> 00:44:31,959
Speaker 3: some people are.

874
00:44:31,880 --> 00:44:34,600
Speaker 6: Really judgmental, and I don't know if I kind of

875
00:44:34,640 --> 00:44:37,359
Speaker 6: want to get an outsider's opinion, just if they think

876
00:44:37,400 --> 00:44:39,200
Speaker 6: that that would be an issue I would come across.

877
00:44:39,280 --> 00:44:42,440
Speaker 4: Basically, I think you have to go for it. I

878
00:44:42,480 --> 00:44:45,960
Speaker 4: think that that whole scene. I think the way that

879
00:44:46,000 --> 00:44:52,520
Speaker 4: we equate health with an exterior representation is so profoundly

880
00:44:52,680 --> 00:44:57,279
Speaker 4: and deeply flawed. Some of the least healthy people I

881
00:44:57,360 --> 00:45:01,120
Speaker 4: know are walking time moms. And I think we're at

882
00:45:01,160 --> 00:45:02,920
Speaker 4: the beginning of this culturally. So I'm not going to

883
00:45:02,960 --> 00:45:07,000
Speaker 4: say that it's going to be easy, but body diversity

884
00:45:07,239 --> 00:45:11,120
Speaker 4: and different experiences of health have got to be present

885
00:45:11,560 --> 00:45:14,799
Speaker 4: in places where we work on ourselves and work on

886
00:45:14,840 --> 00:45:18,799
Speaker 4: our bodies and think about a lot more women look

887
00:45:18,880 --> 00:45:22,400
Speaker 4: like you than they look like you know, a tiny

888
00:45:22,600 --> 00:45:26,520
Speaker 4: little spin instructor at that point, Yeah.

889
00:45:26,480 --> 00:45:29,720
Speaker 1: I think there's a huge opportunity for you to attract

890
00:45:29,760 --> 00:45:34,640
Speaker 1: people who are intimidated by a perfectly fit trainer. A

891
00:45:34,680 --> 00:45:37,000
Speaker 1: lot of people that turns them off because they feel

892
00:45:37,000 --> 00:45:39,600
Speaker 1: like they're being judged by their trainer. So you have

893
00:45:39,640 --> 00:45:43,720
Speaker 1: a whole group of women, especially moms, who probably feel

894
00:45:43,719 --> 00:45:46,080
Speaker 1: that way and feel intimidated, so they can find somebody

895
00:45:46,080 --> 00:45:47,919
Speaker 1: that looks a little bit more like them. It's they're

896
00:45:47,920 --> 00:45:50,000
Speaker 1: going to be a little bit more I guess, you know,

897
00:45:50,080 --> 00:45:52,919
Speaker 1: feel more comfortable I would say working out. I would

898
00:45:52,920 --> 00:45:55,399
Speaker 1: think that would apply to a lot of people. Yeah,

899
00:45:55,440 --> 00:45:57,200
Speaker 1: there's a group of people that want their trained to

900
00:45:57,200 --> 00:45:58,799
Speaker 1: look a certain way. Then there's a group of people

901
00:45:58,840 --> 00:46:00,799
Speaker 1: that want to feel comfortable working out with somebody that

902
00:46:00,880 --> 00:46:02,360
Speaker 1: makes them feel good about themselves.

903
00:46:02,520 --> 00:46:04,200
Speaker 4: Yes, a thousand percent.

904
00:46:04,719 --> 00:46:06,399
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's what I was banking on too.

905
00:46:06,520 --> 00:46:08,239
Speaker 6: I was like, you know, if I saw someone like

906
00:46:08,360 --> 00:46:10,920
Speaker 6: me when I started out my journey with working out

907
00:46:10,960 --> 00:46:13,600
Speaker 6: about eight nine years ago, I think I wouldn't have

908
00:46:13,600 --> 00:46:15,360
Speaker 6: been as intivity. I kept putting it off. You know,

909
00:46:15,440 --> 00:46:16,840
Speaker 6: I don't want to go to this gym, you know,

910
00:46:17,040 --> 00:46:18,960
Speaker 6: it looks scary. But then I finally went and it

911
00:46:19,000 --> 00:46:21,319
Speaker 6: was fun. But you know, maybe if I did walk

912
00:46:21,320 --> 00:46:23,799
Speaker 6: in and see someone that looked more like myself, maybe

913
00:46:23,800 --> 00:46:26,040
Speaker 6: I would have been more inclined to start sooner.

914
00:46:26,200 --> 00:46:27,680
Speaker 3: That's a really good point.

915
00:46:27,960 --> 00:46:29,719
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I think that's also how you sell it

916
00:46:29,800 --> 00:46:32,160
Speaker 2: to someone when you're in a job interviews. It's like,

917
00:46:32,200 --> 00:46:34,160
Speaker 2: when I walked in here, I wanted to see somebody

918
00:46:34,160 --> 00:46:36,640
Speaker 2: who looked like me, like not just like a size

919
00:46:36,680 --> 00:46:39,279
Speaker 2: double zero. I wanted to see somebody who's like an

920
00:46:39,320 --> 00:46:41,040
Speaker 2: average size person.

921
00:46:41,040 --> 00:46:44,480
Speaker 1: Without apologizing about your size. And you can advocate for

922
00:46:44,840 --> 00:46:47,359
Speaker 1: what they They may have their guardrails up about what

923
00:46:47,400 --> 00:46:49,719
Speaker 1: they deem as somebody that can teach there. But I

924
00:46:49,760 --> 00:46:52,560
Speaker 1: also wouldn't even limit yourself to orange theory Like this

925
00:46:52,600 --> 00:46:55,200
Speaker 1: is great marketing. I could already see like you marketing

926
00:46:55,200 --> 00:46:57,399
Speaker 1: to women in your neighborhood and moms, Like, do other

927
00:46:57,400 --> 00:46:59,520
Speaker 1: moms want to work out without being judged by everybody

928
00:46:59,520 --> 00:47:01,120
Speaker 1: in the gym? Do you guys want to and figure

929
00:47:01,120 --> 00:47:03,440
Speaker 1: out fun ways to do that around the neighborhood walking

930
00:47:03,440 --> 00:47:05,360
Speaker 1: around or going to a park and meeting up. So

931
00:47:05,400 --> 00:47:07,879
Speaker 1: it's not so that there's a fun vibe and there's

932
00:47:07,960 --> 00:47:10,840
Speaker 1: kind of movement in the movement, not you know, literally

933
00:47:10,880 --> 00:47:13,360
Speaker 1: and physically, like you're actually changing it up and offering

934
00:47:13,360 --> 00:47:16,080
Speaker 1: different places to go or different activities. I think you

935
00:47:16,080 --> 00:47:18,200
Speaker 1: could just not limit yourself to only thinking you can

936
00:47:18,320 --> 00:47:22,160
Speaker 1: just fit yourself into somebody others operation and potentially create

937
00:47:22,200 --> 00:47:23,880
Speaker 1: your own business.

938
00:47:23,280 --> 00:47:23,560
Speaker 5: Have you.

939
00:47:25,000 --> 00:47:27,360
Speaker 4: Yeah, not that everyone needs to be a digital influencer,

940
00:47:27,400 --> 00:47:30,120
Speaker 4: but I also wonder if you started making some content

941
00:47:30,320 --> 00:47:32,560
Speaker 4: just for your friends and family. I think you would

942
00:47:32,560 --> 00:47:34,839
Speaker 4: get a lot of positive reinforcement. It might be what

943
00:47:34,920 --> 00:47:39,680
Speaker 4: you need confidence wise to see the market for this

944
00:47:39,880 --> 00:47:42,000
Speaker 4: and move into it. You don't have to keep doing

945
00:47:42,040 --> 00:47:45,560
Speaker 4: it or build a profile, but yeah, I think you

946
00:47:45,680 --> 00:47:46,640
Speaker 4: get a lot of feedback.

947
00:47:47,040 --> 00:47:48,680
Speaker 3: That's a really good idea. I didn't even think about.

948
00:47:48,800 --> 00:47:51,600
Speaker 2: Thank you, and I love what Chelsea said too. When

949
00:47:51,600 --> 00:47:54,200
Speaker 2: my mom was like in her fifties, she and several

950
00:47:54,239 --> 00:47:56,399
Speaker 2: of her friends started working out with a gal who

951
00:47:56,440 --> 00:47:59,000
Speaker 2: was about your age. She'd built like a whole gym

952
00:47:59,040 --> 00:48:01,600
Speaker 2: in her basement, which like depending on your weather situation

953
00:48:01,680 --> 00:48:04,880
Speaker 2: where you live, you know, basement outside whatever. But like

954
00:48:04,920 --> 00:48:06,319
Speaker 2: that was where they love to go because it was

955
00:48:06,320 --> 00:48:10,439
Speaker 2: like a normal person with great equipment, and they would

956
00:48:10,480 --> 00:48:12,120
Speaker 2: go and have a great time and chat with the

957
00:48:12,160 --> 00:48:14,040
Speaker 2: other ladies. And it wasn't like this like gem gem

958
00:48:14,080 --> 00:48:15,560
Speaker 2: gem experience.

959
00:48:15,719 --> 00:48:19,719
Speaker 4: And where our culture is awash with unattainable bodies and

960
00:48:19,760 --> 00:48:22,440
Speaker 4: if that's what people need in order to feel inspired,

961
00:48:22,680 --> 00:48:27,840
Speaker 4: they have a plethora of opportunities to feel bad about themselves.

962
00:48:28,560 --> 00:48:32,960
Speaker 4: And no, but I think it would be revolutionary to

963
00:48:33,960 --> 00:48:38,480
Speaker 4: disrupt that narrative and to get comfortable. For people to

964
00:48:38,520 --> 00:48:42,279
Speaker 4: see someone who's healthy, strong and has a body that's

965
00:48:42,640 --> 00:48:47,400
Speaker 4: attainable and equivalent is really powerful.

966
00:48:47,480 --> 00:48:49,920
Speaker 1: And I think exactly picking off off of what at

967
00:48:50,000 --> 00:48:52,759
Speaker 1: least said earlier, make that part of your narrative too,

968
00:48:53,000 --> 00:48:57,560
Speaker 1: Like how we define health has been misinterpreted for eons,

969
00:48:57,880 --> 00:49:01,239
Speaker 1: and actually healthy and strong and fit are the most

970
00:49:01,239 --> 00:49:04,319
Speaker 1: important things to be. It's not about being a size

971
00:49:04,400 --> 00:49:08,280
Speaker 1: zero or a size two, especially not for everybody. Nobody.

972
00:49:08,440 --> 00:49:11,280
Speaker 1: People aren't naturally like that, and you know, are forcing themselves.

973
00:49:11,280 --> 00:49:13,520
Speaker 1: There are people that are naturally like that, good for them,

974
00:49:13,600 --> 00:49:16,719
Speaker 1: but that's not natural for most people. So I think

975
00:49:16,760 --> 00:49:19,520
Speaker 1: you have a huge opportunity here too, So get get going,

976
00:49:19,719 --> 00:49:20,360
Speaker 1: get working.

977
00:49:20,719 --> 00:49:20,959
Speaker 3: Yeah.

978
00:49:20,960 --> 00:49:22,680
Speaker 6: And I also like how when you had Ben Bruno

979
00:49:22,760 --> 00:49:24,839
Speaker 6: and he talked more about how women should be doing

980
00:49:24,840 --> 00:49:27,520
Speaker 6: more like weight training, how we're always we go straight

981
00:49:27,520 --> 00:49:28,719
Speaker 6: for the cardio, and.

982
00:49:28,680 --> 00:49:30,000
Speaker 3: I was thinking, like, because that's.

983
00:49:29,840 --> 00:49:32,120
Speaker 6: Where I found my passion. I used to hate lifting weights,

984
00:49:32,120 --> 00:49:33,600
Speaker 6: and now it's like I look forward to it. Can

985
00:49:33,600 --> 00:49:36,120
Speaker 6: I beat my personal record and things like that, And

986
00:49:36,160 --> 00:49:38,240
Speaker 6: I want to get people excited like that, and women

987
00:49:38,320 --> 00:49:41,440
Speaker 6: excited about that, because I think there's a misinterpretation of

988
00:49:41,480 --> 00:49:43,319
Speaker 6: you know, lifting weights for women too. They don't want

989
00:49:43,320 --> 00:49:45,399
Speaker 6: to look too bulky or whatever. And I'm like, that's

990
00:49:45,440 --> 00:49:47,640
Speaker 6: not a thing like that, It's not a thing.

991
00:49:48,680 --> 00:49:49,040
Speaker 4: Yeah.

992
00:49:49,120 --> 00:49:51,200
Speaker 2: I also this just kind of keeps popping into my

993
00:49:51,239 --> 00:49:53,640
Speaker 2: mind too. You may want to talk to a therapist

994
00:49:53,760 --> 00:49:56,080
Speaker 2: or somebody as well, just to see if there's somebody

995
00:49:56,160 --> 00:49:59,440
Speaker 2: dys morphias stuff going on, because if you're limiting yourself

996
00:49:59,680 --> 00:50:01,920
Speaker 2: so much like having this question about like am I

997
00:50:01,920 --> 00:50:03,360
Speaker 2: good enough to do this? Am I the right side

998
00:50:03,360 --> 00:50:05,160
Speaker 2: to do this? There might be just some extra like

999
00:50:05,200 --> 00:50:07,080
Speaker 2: body stuff that you need to work out with a therapist.

1000
00:50:07,160 --> 00:50:08,480
Speaker 3: Yeah, I grew up with an almond mom.

1001
00:50:08,640 --> 00:50:12,360
Speaker 1: If you guys know, so, I try to an almond

1002
00:50:12,440 --> 00:50:14,720
Speaker 1: joy mom. So I have the opposite set of problems.

1003
00:50:15,840 --> 00:50:19,359
Speaker 3: You got a trademark that Chelsea. That's great almond joy.

1004
00:50:19,840 --> 00:50:21,200
Speaker 4: I see a new commercial.

1005
00:50:22,080 --> 00:50:24,720
Speaker 1: Yeah, sometimes you feel like a nut, sometimes you don't.

1006
00:50:26,640 --> 00:50:29,520
Speaker 6: Absolutely, I've all yeah, this was all great advice if

1007
00:50:29,560 --> 00:50:32,360
Speaker 6: I never thought of so, I just I feel inspired.

1008
00:50:32,400 --> 00:50:33,719
Speaker 3: Thank you, I really awesome.

1009
00:50:33,840 --> 00:50:36,239
Speaker 1: Great, Well, job is here, problem solved. Everybody can go

1010
00:50:36,280 --> 00:50:36,600
Speaker 1: home now.

1011
00:50:37,800 --> 00:50:40,680
Speaker 6: I will keep you updated on my future endeavors.

1012
00:50:41,000 --> 00:50:42,960
Speaker 2: Okay, let us know the name of your jim when

1013
00:50:43,000 --> 00:50:43,480
Speaker 2: you start it.

1014
00:50:43,560 --> 00:50:45,640
Speaker 1: Your mantra is think Bigger, Think bigger.

1015
00:50:45,800 --> 00:50:48,279
Speaker 6: I gotta pick up a gym name with that has

1016
00:50:48,400 --> 00:50:51,160
Speaker 6: nugget incorporated into it somehow, like you know, nugget.

1017
00:50:51,239 --> 00:50:53,120
Speaker 1: Nobody wants to work out with a nugget. But you

1018
00:50:53,160 --> 00:50:55,960
Speaker 1: could call that think bigger too. That's a good gym name.

1019
00:50:56,000 --> 00:50:56,560
Speaker 1: Think bigger.

1020
00:50:56,600 --> 00:50:59,239
Speaker 4: Bigger is a great name. We are like you have

1021
00:50:59,320 --> 00:51:02,080
Speaker 4: three CM right now doing your marketing plan.

1022
00:51:02,280 --> 00:51:04,759
Speaker 3: Love it, love it. Thank you. I appreciate your time,

1023
00:51:04,800 --> 00:51:05,680
Speaker 3: I really do. Thank you.

1024
00:51:05,719 --> 00:51:07,520
Speaker 1: Oh thanks for calling in my pleasure?

1025
00:51:07,560 --> 00:51:07,839
Speaker 3: Thank you?

1026
00:51:08,400 --> 00:51:09,920
Speaker 4: Why this is so fun?

1027
00:51:10,040 --> 00:51:11,560
Speaker 2: Anything we want to expound on?

1028
00:51:11,840 --> 00:51:12,840
Speaker 4: I ask her a question?

1029
00:51:13,320 --> 00:51:15,759
Speaker 1: Oh yes, oh yes, would you like to ask me

1030
00:51:15,760 --> 00:51:18,040
Speaker 1: a question? At least? I'm so sorry, how rude of me.

1031
00:51:19,160 --> 00:51:21,279
Speaker 2: Well, we can take a quick break and we'll be

1032
00:51:21,360 --> 00:51:26,279
Speaker 2: back with more Alice and Chelsea.

1033
00:51:27,080 --> 00:51:27,880
Speaker 1: And we're back.

1034
00:51:29,120 --> 00:51:30,560
Speaker 4: We're back, Alisa.

1035
00:51:30,560 --> 00:51:31,760
Speaker 2: Did you have a question for Chelsea?

1036
00:51:31,880 --> 00:51:35,920
Speaker 4: I sure do. Thanks for asking. Catherine. You have a

1037
00:51:35,960 --> 00:51:38,719
Speaker 4: fearlessness about you, and I'm assuming you've always been a

1038
00:51:38,719 --> 00:51:43,839
Speaker 4: brave person, but you are someone who says it anyway, right,

1039
00:51:43,960 --> 00:51:47,920
Speaker 4: you see something, you say something. Do you ever feel

1040
00:51:48,160 --> 00:51:52,160
Speaker 4: scared and what do you do in those.

1041
00:51:52,000 --> 00:51:55,480
Speaker 1: Moments scared of saying something, just being.

1042
00:51:55,160 --> 00:51:56,200
Speaker 4: Who you are in the world.

1043
00:51:56,800 --> 00:52:01,960
Speaker 1: Oh, I have fears. But everyone always asks me this question,

1044
00:52:02,000 --> 00:52:04,000
Speaker 1: and I take it as a compliment that people think

1045
00:52:04,000 --> 00:52:06,200
Speaker 1: I'm so fearless. I think I'm not really sure. I

1046
00:52:06,200 --> 00:52:09,279
Speaker 1: haven't digested it fully because I don't feel fearless. I

1047
00:52:09,320 --> 00:52:12,920
Speaker 1: definitely feel brave, but I have lots of fears, and

1048
00:52:12,440 --> 00:52:15,720
Speaker 1: I make it my business to kind of work push

1049
00:52:15,760 --> 00:52:18,359
Speaker 1: through like go you can do it, like every time

1050
00:52:18,440 --> 00:52:21,640
Speaker 1: you get over a fear, the level of the confidence

1051
00:52:21,680 --> 00:52:25,040
Speaker 1: that you feel, and the I think self security is

1052
00:52:25,120 --> 00:52:28,040
Speaker 1: the biggest thing that I have. Like, I know I

1053
00:52:28,080 --> 00:52:30,440
Speaker 1: can depend on myself. I know I'm not going to

1054
00:52:30,520 --> 00:52:33,919
Speaker 1: let anything get too carried away, not for anybody else

1055
00:52:34,040 --> 00:52:36,400
Speaker 1: and not for myself, and that if someone asks me

1056
00:52:36,480 --> 00:52:40,160
Speaker 1: to do something, I have complete confidence in my competence.

1057
00:52:40,800 --> 00:52:43,440
Speaker 1: You know, as long as it doesn't involve technology, like

1058
00:52:43,600 --> 00:52:46,520
Speaker 1: anything emotional, any sort of draatic thing, Like I can

1059
00:52:46,560 --> 00:52:48,800
Speaker 1: help somebody and I can actually deal with it myself.

1060
00:52:49,000 --> 00:52:51,839
Speaker 1: But I think it's from stepping through fear over and

1061
00:52:51,920 --> 00:52:54,760
Speaker 1: over and over again. I think there's so many different

1062
00:52:54,880 --> 00:52:58,040
Speaker 1: nuances of fear and how that plays out in your life.

1063
00:52:58,120 --> 00:52:59,960
Speaker 1: You know, you can be fear full, you can live

1064
00:53:00,239 --> 00:53:02,920
Speaker 1: in fear, or you can just have a fear of

1065
00:53:02,960 --> 00:53:05,600
Speaker 1: certain things. You know, it depends how and do you

1066
00:53:05,680 --> 00:53:08,440
Speaker 1: let it run you? And no, I do not let

1067
00:53:08,520 --> 00:53:08,920
Speaker 1: it run me.

1068
00:53:09,200 --> 00:53:12,240
Speaker 4: Yeah, And how do you interrupt it in that moment

1069
00:53:12,320 --> 00:53:14,600
Speaker 4: or do you just feel it or do you do

1070
00:53:14,640 --> 00:53:15,520
Speaker 4: you have a practice?

1071
00:53:15,760 --> 00:53:18,799
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean I'm very into like meditation. For the

1072
00:53:19,080 --> 00:53:22,120
Speaker 1: past like five years, I've been really practicing meditation. And

1073
00:53:22,880 --> 00:53:26,680
Speaker 1: this isn't fear based necessary, Yes, it is fear based.

1074
00:53:26,680 --> 00:53:30,000
Speaker 1: This is a good example. Then last week I thought

1075
00:53:30,040 --> 00:53:33,279
Speaker 1: I got some bad news about something. I just looked

1076
00:53:33,320 --> 00:53:34,960
Speaker 1: at it and thought, oh, that's not good, Like I

1077
00:53:35,000 --> 00:53:37,880
Speaker 1: was expecting more from this or a better outcome from that.

1078
00:53:38,640 --> 00:53:41,200
Speaker 1: And then I had a phone call and I and

1079
00:53:41,239 --> 00:53:43,960
Speaker 1: that was based on my fear of not being good

1080
00:53:44,040 --> 00:53:46,399
Speaker 1: enough at delivering something. Right, Like, I was like, wait,

1081
00:53:46,400 --> 00:53:47,839
Speaker 1: I thought I did a better job at that. They

1082
00:53:47,880 --> 00:53:50,080
Speaker 1: should have gotten more for that, whatever the net result

1083
00:53:50,120 --> 00:53:52,359
Speaker 1: of it is, right, And I was like, huh, maybe

1084
00:53:52,360 --> 00:53:54,319
Speaker 1: I'm not doing a good enough job. And then I

1085
00:53:54,320 --> 00:53:57,040
Speaker 1: had a phone call assessing the information we got, and

1086
00:53:57,080 --> 00:53:59,160
Speaker 1: it turns out I did a fucking great job, right.

1087
00:53:59,640 --> 00:54:02,400
Speaker 1: It turns everything was great. We did everything we wanted

1088
00:54:02,480 --> 00:54:04,360
Speaker 1: we set out to do, and it worked in many ways,

1089
00:54:04,520 --> 00:54:08,080
Speaker 1: multiple levels that I hadn't even seen yet until everyone

1090
00:54:08,280 --> 00:54:10,440
Speaker 1: got together told me. But I chose to go down

1091
00:54:10,480 --> 00:54:13,200
Speaker 1: the negative route for some reason. And that's fear based.

1092
00:54:13,560 --> 00:54:16,120
Speaker 1: That's because you think you're not good enough, you're not whatever.

1093
00:54:16,719 --> 00:54:19,759
Speaker 1: And I remember getting off that call and sitting with

1094
00:54:19,840 --> 00:54:22,520
Speaker 1: myself for about twenty minutes and saying, next time you

1095
00:54:22,600 --> 00:54:25,399
Speaker 1: do that, you need to recognize that A you don't

1096
00:54:25,440 --> 00:54:29,080
Speaker 1: have all the information. B where is this coming from?

1097
00:54:29,280 --> 00:54:29,640
Speaker 4: Yeah?

1098
00:54:29,719 --> 00:54:31,960
Speaker 1: Why do you care so much about this specific outcome?

1099
00:54:32,040 --> 00:54:35,359
Speaker 1: Unless it's based on fear and that needs to be

1100
00:54:35,440 --> 00:54:38,040
Speaker 1: identified in the moment, and then it's easier to deal with.

1101
00:54:38,160 --> 00:54:42,040
Speaker 1: I think. Yeah, anyway, do we have time for one

1102
00:54:42,040 --> 00:54:44,239
Speaker 1: more question from a caller too? Unless at least do

1103
00:54:44,239 --> 00:54:45,360
Speaker 1: you have any more questions?

1104
00:54:46,440 --> 00:54:46,960
Speaker 4: So many?

1105
00:54:47,760 --> 00:54:47,960
Speaker 1: Well?

1106
00:54:48,080 --> 00:54:51,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, I just have one more email from Nicole. She

1107
00:54:51,600 --> 00:54:54,719
Speaker 2: is in her forties. Dear Chelsea, I would love your

1108
00:54:54,719 --> 00:54:57,480
Speaker 2: opinion on a recent dilemma with our thirteen year old daughter.

1109
00:54:57,920 --> 00:54:59,759
Speaker 2: She and her friends are having a costume party and

1110
00:54:59,800 --> 00:55:04,280
Speaker 2: are dressing in similar themes. Her costume idea was super cute.

1111
00:55:04,440 --> 00:55:06,640
Speaker 2: She was going to be the Queen of hearts. However,

1112
00:55:06,719 --> 00:55:09,920
Speaker 2: when she showed me her inspiration or esthetic board, I

1113
00:55:10,160 --> 00:55:15,160
Speaker 2: was taken aback. We're talking corset, platform heels, miniskirt, thigh

1114
00:55:15,280 --> 00:55:18,120
Speaker 2: high hose. To give you a little backstory of my daughter,

1115
00:55:18,360 --> 00:55:22,200
Speaker 2: she's very independent, self motivated, and an incredibly smart eighth grader.

1116
00:55:22,680 --> 00:55:25,279
Speaker 2: She prides herself in making straight a's even though I

1117
00:55:25,280 --> 00:55:28,080
Speaker 2: think she's too intense about it. And she's a terrific

1118
00:55:28,120 --> 00:55:30,920
Speaker 2: performer who's done musical theater since she was seven. She

1119
00:55:31,000 --> 00:55:33,920
Speaker 2: started her period in sixth grade and her body changed

1120
00:55:34,000 --> 00:55:37,080
Speaker 2: almost overnight. She has big boobs, just like her mama.

1121
00:55:37,680 --> 00:55:41,440
Speaker 2: I have been very intentional about not body shaving my daughter. However,

1122
00:55:41,560 --> 00:55:43,920
Speaker 2: when she tried on the corset she bought, I was

1123
00:55:44,000 --> 00:55:46,200
Speaker 2: at a loss. I told her I thought it was

1124
00:55:46,239 --> 00:55:49,600
Speaker 2: inappropriate for her age, and she freaked out. She even

1125
00:55:49,640 --> 00:55:51,880
Speaker 2: said she wanted to dress slutty for the costume party

1126
00:55:51,920 --> 00:55:54,480
Speaker 2: and knows it's a cliche but doesn't care. While I

1127
00:55:54,520 --> 00:55:58,560
Speaker 2: appreciate her honesty and confidence, I just don't know how

1128
00:55:58,600 --> 00:56:00,799
Speaker 2: to tell her she shouldn't dress this way without making

1129
00:56:00,800 --> 00:56:03,279
Speaker 2: her feel ashamed of her body. Am I in the

1130
00:56:03,320 --> 00:56:05,800
Speaker 2: wrong here? How do I help her stay age appropriate

1131
00:56:05,840 --> 00:56:09,560
Speaker 2: and still love her body? Thanks Chelsea Nicole, Well.

1132
00:56:09,280 --> 00:56:10,880
Speaker 1: At least I know you don't have any daughters, but

1133
00:56:10,920 --> 00:56:12,839
Speaker 1: you're the only parent here, so I have to let

1134
00:56:12,840 --> 00:56:13,440
Speaker 1: you go first.

1135
00:56:13,560 --> 00:56:16,200
Speaker 4: Okay, I have a lot of feelings about this. Okay,

1136
00:56:16,480 --> 00:56:20,760
Speaker 4: So Peggy Ornstein, he's an amazing journalist. She was telling

1137
00:56:20,800 --> 00:56:23,800
Speaker 4: me a story about talking to a boy. She writes

1138
00:56:23,800 --> 00:56:26,759
Speaker 4: a lot about kids and sexuality, and he was talking

1139
00:56:26,760 --> 00:56:30,280
Speaker 4: about his girlfriend and he said she's sexy but not sexual.

1140
00:56:30,760 --> 00:56:35,399
Speaker 4: And I thought that that distinction was so critical and key,

1141
00:56:35,600 --> 00:56:39,120
Speaker 4: because I think with a lot of kids, girls specifically,

1142
00:56:39,600 --> 00:56:43,719
Speaker 4: they are wanting to be sexy and they are not

1143
00:56:43,880 --> 00:56:47,600
Speaker 4: yet really sexual. They don't have a full sense of

1144
00:56:47,640 --> 00:56:52,000
Speaker 4: their own sexual power. I don't know, maybe they've all

1145
00:56:52,320 --> 00:56:54,680
Speaker 4: maybe they're far more advanced than I was at that age,

1146
00:56:54,760 --> 00:56:58,920
Speaker 4: but I worry a lot about the performance of sexuality

1147
00:56:59,360 --> 00:57:02,200
Speaker 4: for an audience and the objectification when you don't even

1148
00:57:02,280 --> 00:57:06,239
Speaker 4: know yet what it is. And then you know. I

1149
00:57:06,320 --> 00:57:09,480
Speaker 4: know that we're in a time where which I respect

1150
00:57:09,760 --> 00:57:12,439
Speaker 4: not slept shaming girls or talking about their bodies body

1151
00:57:12,480 --> 00:57:18,960
Speaker 4: shaming them, But culturally we are not there. We still

1152
00:57:19,160 --> 00:57:23,720
Speaker 4: live in a culture that is incredibly patriarchal, where of

1153
00:57:23,760 --> 00:57:29,440
Speaker 4: one thousand sexual assault cases, only twenty five ever progressed

1154
00:57:29,440 --> 00:57:33,600
Speaker 4: to trial. It is not safe for girls. You are

1155
00:57:33,840 --> 00:57:39,240
Speaker 4: expected to be the babysitter of rapacious male desire. Whatever

1156
00:57:39,320 --> 00:57:42,680
Speaker 4: happens to you is your fault. This is the culture

1157
00:57:42,720 --> 00:57:47,640
Speaker 4: that we live in. And so I think not acknowledging

1158
00:57:47,680 --> 00:57:53,040
Speaker 4: that and pretending that it's all fair for girls is

1159
00:57:53,080 --> 00:57:55,960
Speaker 4: not is a gross to service. So it's not about

1160
00:57:56,160 --> 00:57:59,120
Speaker 4: shaming her about her body. It's about making sure that

1161
00:57:59,160 --> 00:58:03,200
Speaker 4: she can keep her self safe. And I recognize that

1162
00:58:03,280 --> 00:58:06,640
Speaker 4: no girl should be responsible for keeping herself safe and

1163
00:58:06,680 --> 00:58:11,400
Speaker 4: that it's fucked up, but unfortunately that's where we are.

1164
00:58:12,200 --> 00:58:15,200
Speaker 2: I think you said that so beautifully. There's also I know, Chelsea,

1165
00:58:15,240 --> 00:58:18,000
Speaker 2: you can speak to this too, there's also a shitty

1166
00:58:18,000 --> 00:58:20,560
Speaker 2: thing that happens when you have bigger boobs of like

1167
00:58:20,840 --> 00:58:22,800
Speaker 2: you can put on the same exact dress as your

1168
00:58:22,840 --> 00:58:25,000
Speaker 2: friend next to you with small boobs, and like you

1169
00:58:25,040 --> 00:58:28,040
Speaker 2: look quote unquote sluttie. You look like you're trying to

1170
00:58:28,040 --> 00:58:30,720
Speaker 2: be more sexual than your meaning to be because your

1171
00:58:30,720 --> 00:58:33,280
Speaker 2: breasts are larger. Like that's definitely an experience I've had.

1172
00:58:33,400 --> 00:58:35,360
Speaker 1: For sure, I felt that way too, But I also

1173
00:58:35,400 --> 00:58:38,560
Speaker 1: want to counter argue, like I get all those things,

1174
00:58:38,600 --> 00:58:41,880
Speaker 1: and I understand you're saying. Everything you're saying is true,

1175
00:58:41,960 --> 00:58:45,720
Speaker 1: But I also think at eighth grade, a girl who

1176
00:58:45,960 --> 00:58:49,760
Speaker 1: has shown responsibility and shown good judgment should be given

1177
00:58:49,960 --> 00:58:52,440
Speaker 1: the right to make these kinds of decisions on her

1178
00:58:52,480 --> 00:58:55,360
Speaker 1: own and then see where that lands, Like see she's

1179
00:58:55,400 --> 00:58:58,040
Speaker 1: going to school, you know, like hopefully that's a safe

1180
00:58:58,040 --> 00:59:01,160
Speaker 1: place for her to try to exercise her freedom and

1181
00:59:01,200 --> 00:59:03,800
Speaker 1: the way she wants to dress. And maybe she'll come

1182
00:59:03,840 --> 00:59:05,560
Speaker 1: back from that and be like, oh, I don't want

1183
00:59:05,560 --> 00:59:08,280
Speaker 1: to I don't like I don't like that kind of attention. Yeah,

1184
00:59:08,400 --> 00:59:10,160
Speaker 1: or I don't like the way people are looking at me,

1185
00:59:10,240 --> 00:59:12,120
Speaker 1: and maybe she won't. Maybe she'll come back and go

1186
00:59:12,240 --> 00:59:14,720
Speaker 1: I liked that. I liked that a lot. But again,

1187
00:59:15,000 --> 00:59:17,600
Speaker 1: you can't control her experience with that, like at a

1188
00:59:17,600 --> 00:59:21,000
Speaker 1: certain age, especially the way girls dress now, they show

1189
00:59:21,080 --> 00:59:24,280
Speaker 1: everything at a young age, you know that the things

1190
00:59:24,320 --> 00:59:27,000
Speaker 1: that they're exposed to. And I agree with especially what

1191
00:59:27,040 --> 00:59:31,200
Speaker 1: you're talking about regarding sexuality and sexy because I do

1192
00:59:31,240 --> 00:59:33,880
Speaker 1: think girls are more innocent these days. They're exposed to

1193
00:59:33,920 --> 00:59:37,200
Speaker 1: more on the internet, yet they have less experience in person,

1194
00:59:37,600 --> 00:59:39,640
Speaker 1: which is I guess you know this has been a

1195
00:59:39,640 --> 00:59:43,240
Speaker 1: hot topic of conversation with boys and girls, adolescents and

1196
00:59:43,320 --> 00:59:47,080
Speaker 1: everything in between, and nine binary children as well, Like

1197
00:59:47,520 --> 00:59:49,800
Speaker 1: you want your own agency, You want your kid to

1198
00:59:49,880 --> 00:59:53,160
Speaker 1: be able to make decisions and understand what those decisions

1199
00:59:53,280 --> 00:59:57,200
Speaker 1: lead to, especially something that I understand why you're asking,

1200
00:59:57,320 --> 01:00:01,720
Speaker 1: but overall, this seems pretty innoc to me. I don't

1201
01:00:01,720 --> 01:00:04,360
Speaker 1: think it's a major big deal. You know, it's not

1202
01:00:04,480 --> 01:00:07,040
Speaker 1: like she's sexually active all of a sudden and you

1203
01:00:07,040 --> 01:00:08,920
Speaker 1: don't know how to handle that, because that's something that

1204
01:00:08,920 --> 01:00:11,560
Speaker 1: could also happen in the eighth grade. We're talking here

1205
01:00:11,680 --> 01:00:14,520
Speaker 1: just about an outfit, and it might be worth the

1206
01:00:14,560 --> 01:00:17,040
Speaker 1: experience of her wearing that to understand if she wants

1207
01:00:17,080 --> 01:00:18,600
Speaker 1: to wear something like that again.

1208
01:00:18,960 --> 01:00:19,320
Speaker 4: Yeah.

1209
01:00:19,440 --> 01:00:23,000
Speaker 2: Now, my sister calls that the natural consequences. She talks

1210
01:00:23,000 --> 01:00:25,080
Speaker 2: about this with her kids a lot who are now teenagers,

1211
01:00:25,560 --> 01:00:28,080
Speaker 2: Like my niece Lucy, she wanted to wear high heels

1212
01:00:28,080 --> 01:00:30,120
Speaker 2: to school, and my sister was like, you know, the

1213
01:00:30,200 --> 01:00:33,000
Speaker 2: natural consequence to that are you can, but your feet

1214
01:00:33,000 --> 01:00:33,640
Speaker 2: are gonna hurt at.

1215
01:00:33,560 --> 01:00:34,000
Speaker 4: The end of the day.

1216
01:00:34,000 --> 01:00:36,560
Speaker 2: And of course it came home with like terrible feeling

1217
01:00:36,560 --> 01:00:38,360
Speaker 2: feet and blisters and all this stuff, and it's like,

1218
01:00:38,400 --> 01:00:41,800
Speaker 2: that's the natural consequences. But yeah, letting her go to

1219
01:00:41,800 --> 01:00:44,200
Speaker 2: school and see how she likes that attention, Yeah.

1220
01:00:44,040 --> 01:00:45,680
Speaker 1: I think so. I think I mean it's nice to

1221
01:00:45,680 --> 01:00:48,840
Speaker 1: give people some responsibility also instead of parenting them at

1222
01:00:48,840 --> 01:00:51,600
Speaker 1: that age in that way, I think it's a good like,

1223
01:00:52,120 --> 01:00:54,200
Speaker 1: that's a good self esteem booster to kind of be

1224
01:00:54,360 --> 01:00:57,360
Speaker 1: have your own you make your own decisions on certain fronts,

1225
01:00:57,400 --> 01:01:01,240
Speaker 1: to see how you make them, Yeah, and practice making them.

1226
01:01:02,040 --> 01:01:04,640
Speaker 4: Yeah. I think that's all fair And I don't want

1227
01:01:04,680 --> 01:01:08,080
Speaker 4: to be sound so puritanical. I just like any girl

1228
01:01:08,120 --> 01:01:09,160
Speaker 4: we can save from.

1229
01:01:09,560 --> 01:01:13,960
Speaker 1: Sexual predatory behavior, toy behavior. Yeah, but can we save

1230
01:01:14,040 --> 01:01:16,640
Speaker 1: anyone from that? You know what I mean? Like, can

1231
01:01:16,680 --> 01:01:18,000
Speaker 1: you really save somebody from that?

1232
01:01:18,320 --> 01:01:20,520
Speaker 2: I don't know, I know, I think I think it's

1233
01:01:20,600 --> 01:01:22,720
Speaker 2: kind of both of these answers. It comes down to

1234
01:01:22,760 --> 01:01:24,840
Speaker 2: like is it a safe sandbox to be playing in?

1235
01:01:25,000 --> 01:01:27,240
Speaker 2: Like is she going to a safe place? Or is

1236
01:01:27,280 --> 01:01:30,200
Speaker 2: she like going out into the city? Like not great?

1237
01:01:30,400 --> 01:01:30,600
Speaker 3: You know?

1238
01:01:31,280 --> 01:01:35,439
Speaker 1: Okay, guys, this is your opportunity. The book is called

1239
01:01:35,480 --> 01:01:37,480
Speaker 1: On Our Best Behavior, the Seven Deadly Sins, and The

1240
01:01:37,480 --> 01:01:39,880
Speaker 1: Price Women Pay to Be Good. It's written by Elise Lonan.

1241
01:01:40,240 --> 01:01:42,920
Speaker 1: Please order your books or go to your independent bookstores

1242
01:01:43,280 --> 01:01:45,560
Speaker 1: and buy a copy of this book. It is very

1243
01:01:45,600 --> 01:01:49,840
Speaker 1: important reading. Elise. Thank you so much for being here too.

1244
01:01:50,600 --> 01:01:51,320
Speaker 4: So fun.

1245
01:01:51,520 --> 01:01:53,960
Speaker 1: It's so nice to talk to real people right and

1246
01:01:54,000 --> 01:01:57,000
Speaker 1: give advice. I love it. I love it. Thanks guys,

1247
01:01:57,040 --> 01:02:01,040
Speaker 1: We'll see you next week, Bye bye, bye bye.

1248
01:02:01,840 --> 01:02:04,200
Speaker 2: If you'd like advice from Chelsea, shoot us an email

1249
01:02:04,240 --> 01:02:07,320
Speaker 2: at Dear Chelsea podcast at gmail dot com and be

1250
01:02:07,360 --> 01:02:10,400
Speaker 2: sure to include your phone number. Dear Chelsea is edited

1251
01:02:10,400 --> 01:02:14,040
Speaker 2: and engineered by Brad Dickert executive producer Katherine Law and

1252
01:02:14,120 --> 01:02:16,480
Speaker 2: be sure to check out our merch at Chelseahandler dot

1253
01:02:16,560 --> 01:02:20,560
Speaker 2: com