1 00:00:15,316 --> 00:00:23,316 Speaker 1: Pushkin the furthest the way I've ever been from home 2 00:00:23,676 --> 00:00:28,436 Speaker 1: was when I went to Japan. A popular travel website 3 00:00:28,476 --> 00:00:32,436 Speaker 1: that helps people temporarily run out their homes asked me 4 00:00:32,476 --> 00:00:35,836 Speaker 1: to make a podcast pilot about the positive experiences people 5 00:00:35,876 --> 00:00:39,676 Speaker 1: had using their service. Since I needed the money and 6 00:00:40,036 --> 00:00:43,836 Speaker 1: not lost wasn't off the ground yet, I agreed. I 7 00:00:43,916 --> 00:00:46,076 Speaker 1: told my friend Laris about it over drinks one night, 8 00:00:46,316 --> 00:00:49,956 Speaker 1: and he flagged a potential problem. The thing is, the 9 00:00:50,036 --> 00:00:52,196 Speaker 1: only stories people really want to hear about from a 10 00:00:52,236 --> 00:00:55,596 Speaker 1: company like that is what went wrong. The hardest stories, 11 00:00:55,636 --> 00:00:58,156 Speaker 1: you know, the guests that left the door unlocked and 12 00:00:58,196 --> 00:01:00,796 Speaker 1: the bear wandered in. The homeowner who set up a 13 00:01:00,796 --> 00:01:03,796 Speaker 1: secret camera. The renter who was looking for Q tips 14 00:01:03,796 --> 00:01:08,316 Speaker 1: and found a box of nail clippings. That last example 15 00:01:08,436 --> 00:01:12,396 Speaker 1: seemed a little too specific, but I was too scared 16 00:01:12,396 --> 00:01:19,596 Speaker 1: to ask if he was making it up. Of course, 17 00:01:19,716 --> 00:01:23,476 Speaker 1: the company didn't want to highlight horror stories. Instead, the 18 00:01:23,556 --> 00:01:26,836 Speaker 1: list of suggestions they sent was filled with charming anecdotes 19 00:01:26,876 --> 00:01:30,876 Speaker 1: about how their service had enhanced people's lives. One was 20 00:01:30,916 --> 00:01:33,476 Speaker 1: about an adopted woman who rented a place in another 21 00:01:33,516 --> 00:01:35,876 Speaker 1: state that turned out to be the home of her 22 00:01:35,916 --> 00:01:41,116 Speaker 1: biological sister. Heartlifting, sure, but also a bit like the 23 00:01:41,116 --> 00:01:49,276 Speaker 1: beginning of an A twenty four horror film. And that's 24 00:01:49,516 --> 00:01:52,316 Speaker 1: how I found myself on a business class flight to Japan. 25 00:01:54,676 --> 00:01:56,756 Speaker 1: If I was going to get paid to tell happy stories, 26 00:01:57,036 --> 00:01:59,196 Speaker 1: I might as well make the most of it. Book 27 00:01:59,196 --> 00:02:01,676 Speaker 1: a ticket for the most interesting destination on their list 28 00:02:01,676 --> 00:02:06,316 Speaker 1: of ideas. First stop was Tokyo, but my ultimate destination 29 00:02:06,556 --> 00:02:12,516 Speaker 1: was Nagoya, the fourth most populous city Japan. The story 30 00:02:12,556 --> 00:02:14,996 Speaker 1: I was tracking down came from a man named Kenzo. 31 00:02:16,036 --> 00:02:19,476 Speaker 1: Kenzo was a self described businessman who was raised in Nikoya. 32 00:02:20,436 --> 00:02:23,676 Speaker 1: His elderly parents were struggling financially when he heard about 33 00:02:23,676 --> 00:02:27,596 Speaker 1: the company's service. Years ago. His parents had bought an 34 00:02:27,596 --> 00:02:31,876 Speaker 1: old farmhouse in the country where allegedly Samurai once trained. 35 00:02:32,636 --> 00:02:35,636 Speaker 1: Now the family rented out the house on the company's website, 36 00:02:36,156 --> 00:02:39,516 Speaker 1: and Kenzo's mother had become a thriving entrepreneur, like an 37 00:02:39,516 --> 00:02:43,796 Speaker 1: elderly Japanese Gwyneth Paltrow or a pre prison Martha Stewart. 38 00:02:48,276 --> 00:02:50,916 Speaker 1: Upon arriving in Nogoya, I met up with Ko, a 39 00:02:50,996 --> 00:02:53,756 Speaker 1: local journalist who I had ranged to have translate for me. 40 00:02:54,356 --> 00:02:56,876 Speaker 1: As we wandered around the city. I felt a kinship 41 00:02:56,916 --> 00:03:00,076 Speaker 1: with the place as a native of Philadelphia. A gritty, 42 00:03:00,356 --> 00:03:02,876 Speaker 1: second tier industrial city kind of spoke to me on 43 00:03:02,876 --> 00:03:06,316 Speaker 1: some level. We stopped for lunch and had chicken cutlets 44 00:03:06,396 --> 00:03:10,236 Speaker 1: drenched in Nagoya's preferred ingredient, a red soybean paste made 45 00:03:10,236 --> 00:03:15,276 Speaker 1: of hatchamso venito stock and sugar. It's oozy, salty tang 46 00:03:15,556 --> 00:03:21,036 Speaker 1: reminded me of Philly's preferred ingredient, cheese whizz. After lunch, 47 00:03:21,156 --> 00:03:24,276 Speaker 1: we met up with Kenzo, a tall, youthful fifty one 48 00:03:24,356 --> 00:03:27,036 Speaker 1: year old wearing a brand new putty colored winter vest, 49 00:03:27,356 --> 00:03:31,756 Speaker 1: stylish sweatpants, and Gucci sneakers. They sent you here from 50 00:03:31,756 --> 00:03:36,356 Speaker 1: New York, he said, quizzically. I said yes, a half 51 00:03:36,356 --> 00:03:39,956 Speaker 1: smile across his face. Then he disarmed the alarm in 52 00:03:39,996 --> 00:03:45,556 Speaker 1: his Audie and we piled in. The tiny gray buildings 53 00:03:45,556 --> 00:03:48,676 Speaker 1: of industrial Nagoya gave way to the earth colored hills 54 00:03:48,756 --> 00:03:53,156 Speaker 1: covered with cedar trees and dotted with rice paddies. After 55 00:03:53,236 --> 00:03:56,156 Speaker 1: driving for an hour, we pulled into a tiny village 56 00:03:56,196 --> 00:04:00,116 Speaker 1: ten buildings in a valley. We drove up to the 57 00:04:00,116 --> 00:04:05,076 Speaker 1: biggest house in town. It's silhouette, classically Japanese, big broad 58 00:04:05,076 --> 00:04:08,356 Speaker 1: walls with dark, swooping roofs of Japanese tile. It was 59 00:04:08,396 --> 00:04:12,996 Speaker 1: an impressive base, but immediately I noticed something was amiss. 60 00:04:15,436 --> 00:04:18,516 Speaker 1: The doorways to the house were pretty narrow. I'm not 61 00:04:18,516 --> 00:04:21,116 Speaker 1: sure an average American could walk straight through. Let a 62 00:04:21,156 --> 00:04:26,116 Speaker 1: loan a big samurai wearing armor and a katana. A 63 00:04:26,156 --> 00:04:29,116 Speaker 1: commotion came from a small building adjacent to the farmhouse, 64 00:04:29,316 --> 00:04:35,036 Speaker 1: which looked to be a servants quarters. Kenzo exhaled deeply 65 00:04:35,316 --> 00:04:37,876 Speaker 1: and asked us to stay put as he rushed away. 66 00:04:38,156 --> 00:04:41,796 Speaker 1: Ko and I walked around the grounds and saw, incongruously 67 00:04:41,956 --> 00:04:45,396 Speaker 1: a modern patio with the barbecue in two adirondic chairs. 68 00:04:46,876 --> 00:04:49,836 Speaker 1: A few minutes later, Kenzo emerged holding the arm of 69 00:04:49,836 --> 00:04:52,796 Speaker 1: an elderly woman wearing a cleaner's onesie with a handkerchief 70 00:04:52,796 --> 00:04:55,236 Speaker 1: in her hair. There was a smudge on her face, 71 00:04:55,316 --> 00:05:00,076 Speaker 1: along with a look of both defeat and defiance. Brendan, 72 00:05:01,076 --> 00:05:04,756 Speaker 1: this is my mother, Mazuko. I said hello and bowed slightly, 73 00:05:05,276 --> 00:05:07,476 Speaker 1: and presented her with a little box of chocolates I'd 74 00:05:07,476 --> 00:05:10,196 Speaker 1: picked up a nagoya after Ko told me visitors in 75 00:05:10,276 --> 00:05:14,596 Speaker 1: Japan were expecting to bring gifts. Uzuko lightly nodded her 76 00:05:14,636 --> 00:05:17,076 Speaker 1: head in my direction and avoided looking at the gift. 77 00:05:17,876 --> 00:05:22,876 Speaker 1: Kenzo took it from me. Ah, dark chocolate, my favorite. 78 00:05:24,276 --> 00:05:28,076 Speaker 1: Uzuko walked away, muttering something in Japanese. What did she say? 79 00:05:28,076 --> 00:05:31,196 Speaker 1: I asked Iko? Time for me to make your damn lunch. 80 00:05:31,236 --> 00:05:36,076 Speaker 1: Iko said, giggling. Come let me give you a tour 81 00:05:36,116 --> 00:05:43,356 Speaker 1: of the property, said Kenzo. His gold watch flashed in 82 00:05:43,476 --> 00:05:45,596 Speaker 1: the sun as he pointed out the wired fence they'd 83 00:05:45,596 --> 00:05:48,436 Speaker 1: put up to keep out wild boars, and he was 84 00:05:48,476 --> 00:05:50,676 Speaker 1: careful not to get his Gucci sneakers muddy near the 85 00:05:50,756 --> 00:05:53,996 Speaker 1: chicken coop. He told me about how, as an only son, 86 00:05:54,436 --> 00:05:57,076 Speaker 1: he was obligated to take care of his parents, and 87 00:05:57,156 --> 00:05:59,076 Speaker 1: even though he was successful and able to do it, 88 00:05:59,356 --> 00:06:01,916 Speaker 1: he felt that just giving money to his parents depressed 89 00:06:01,956 --> 00:06:04,836 Speaker 1: his mother. That she had wanted to contribute in some way, 90 00:06:04,916 --> 00:06:07,156 Speaker 1: but entering the workforce now after being out of it 91 00:06:07,236 --> 00:06:10,156 Speaker 1: for so long, would be difficult for her. Thanks to 92 00:06:10,196 --> 00:06:13,156 Speaker 1: the new company, the company that had sent me business 93 00:06:13,196 --> 00:06:16,956 Speaker 1: class from NYC to record this conversation, his mother's suppression, 94 00:06:16,956 --> 00:06:22,956 Speaker 1: according to Kenzo, had lifted. My mother says I saved 95 00:06:22,956 --> 00:06:26,356 Speaker 1: her life, Kenzo said, pushing his highlighted hair to the side, 96 00:06:26,356 --> 00:06:31,316 Speaker 1: of his forehead. Your company saved her life, I winced. 97 00:06:32,076 --> 00:06:35,476 Speaker 1: It was a moving story, but a little on the nose. 98 00:06:36,196 --> 00:06:38,476 Speaker 1: It reminded me of the countless interviews I've done with 99 00:06:38,476 --> 00:06:41,756 Speaker 1: actors where their publicist is in the room, one talking 100 00:06:41,796 --> 00:06:45,396 Speaker 1: point after another. I would usually not use those interviews 101 00:06:45,396 --> 00:06:47,596 Speaker 1: for their lack of honesty, But in the world of 102 00:06:47,596 --> 00:06:51,556 Speaker 1: Spankan that's sponsored content for the morally pure among you. 103 00:06:52,076 --> 00:06:56,196 Speaker 1: We're all actors parting out talking points with a few edits. 104 00:06:56,316 --> 00:06:59,636 Speaker 1: This chat with Kenzo would make for a great scene. 105 00:07:00,716 --> 00:07:02,796 Speaker 1: After a tour of the grounds, we sat for lunch 106 00:07:02,796 --> 00:07:07,356 Speaker 1: on pillows around a long, low wide table. Zuko brought 107 00:07:07,356 --> 00:07:09,676 Speaker 1: out bowls and slashed miso su open to them with 108 00:07:09,716 --> 00:07:12,956 Speaker 1: a wooden label. When she served Kenzo, it splashed up 109 00:07:12,996 --> 00:07:16,196 Speaker 1: and left a dot on his putty puffy vest. He 110 00:07:16,276 --> 00:07:19,436 Speaker 1: muttered under his breath. Mazuka said something back, and then 111 00:07:19,436 --> 00:07:21,836 Speaker 1: they both raised their voices and quickly moved to the kitchen, 112 00:07:21,876 --> 00:07:25,356 Speaker 1: where I could hear them continue bickering while they were 113 00:07:25,356 --> 00:07:27,596 Speaker 1: out of earshot. Iko told me that she spoke with 114 00:07:27,636 --> 00:07:30,876 Speaker 1: Mazuko while Kenza was giving me a tour. I think 115 00:07:30,876 --> 00:07:32,876 Speaker 1: things are a little different than we thought. She said. 116 00:07:33,916 --> 00:07:36,796 Speaker 1: Mazuku told Iko that she missed living in Nagoya and 117 00:07:36,876 --> 00:07:38,956 Speaker 1: that the only reason she was at the Samurai House 118 00:07:39,036 --> 00:07:41,476 Speaker 1: was because Kenzo pressed her to move back here and 119 00:07:41,556 --> 00:07:43,396 Speaker 1: take care of the house so he could make money 120 00:07:43,436 --> 00:07:47,076 Speaker 1: renting it. Meanwhile, Kenza was living the bachelor life back 121 00:07:47,076 --> 00:07:51,836 Speaker 1: at the family apartment in Nagoya. So maybe this would 122 00:07:51,836 --> 00:07:54,636 Speaker 1: be a horror story after all, or at least a 123 00:07:54,756 --> 00:08:03,476 Speaker 1: dark A twenty four style family drama. Kensa returned, apologized 124 00:08:03,516 --> 00:08:05,916 Speaker 1: for his absence, and announced he needed to head back 125 00:08:05,956 --> 00:08:08,436 Speaker 1: to Negoya. Iko and I were to spend the night 126 00:08:08,436 --> 00:08:10,556 Speaker 1: to Samurai House and he'd be back to pick us 127 00:08:10,596 --> 00:08:14,236 Speaker 1: up late the next morning. The next day, I woke 128 00:08:14,316 --> 00:08:16,716 Speaker 1: up early and asked Iko to interpret for me as 129 00:08:16,716 --> 00:08:20,676 Speaker 1: I recorded an interview with Mazuko over a cup of tea. 130 00:08:20,876 --> 00:08:23,196 Speaker 1: Mizuko told me about how our husband had found this 131 00:08:23,236 --> 00:08:26,396 Speaker 1: old farmhouse decades ago on a road trip to get 132 00:08:26,436 --> 00:08:33,436 Speaker 1: some fresh air. Kenzo was their only child. While Mazuko's 133 00:08:33,516 --> 00:08:37,516 Speaker 1: husband painstakingly restored the home, Kenzo would pass summers pretending 134 00:08:37,516 --> 00:08:41,236 Speaker 1: he was a samurai playing in the countryside. After graduating 135 00:08:41,316 --> 00:08:43,476 Speaker 1: high school, Kenzo went to get an mba in the 136 00:08:43,556 --> 00:08:46,436 Speaker 1: United States and returned and worked for a company in Tokyo, 137 00:08:46,916 --> 00:08:49,596 Speaker 1: but things went poorly, and one day he returned home 138 00:08:49,636 --> 00:08:53,916 Speaker 1: to Nagoya and moved back in with them. He seemed depressed, 139 00:08:54,756 --> 00:08:58,316 Speaker 1: and there he lived for a while without working, and 140 00:08:58,356 --> 00:09:00,956 Speaker 1: then he learned about the website that allowed people to 141 00:09:01,036 --> 00:09:05,116 Speaker 1: temporarily rent their homes for money. He told Mazuko and 142 00:09:05,116 --> 00:09:07,516 Speaker 1: her husband that they had to do it. Besides, he 143 00:09:07,636 --> 00:09:09,676 Speaker 1: was too cramped with all three of them in the city, 144 00:09:09,756 --> 00:09:17,996 Speaker 1: and so since he was her only son, she obeyed him. 145 00:09:18,036 --> 00:09:19,396 Speaker 1: It was a lot of work for an old lady, 146 00:09:19,516 --> 00:09:22,676 Speaker 1: and she was growing exhausted, but she supposed it was 147 00:09:22,716 --> 00:09:27,156 Speaker 1: worth it to support her son. After our chat, I 148 00:09:27,196 --> 00:09:29,716 Speaker 1: took one more walk around the grounds to record some 149 00:09:29,836 --> 00:09:33,556 Speaker 1: ambient sounds. As I was about to hit record, I 150 00:09:33,676 --> 00:09:36,156 Speaker 1: clicked back to my recording of Kenzo the day before 151 00:09:36,716 --> 00:09:39,276 Speaker 1: and listened as he talked about all the good he 152 00:09:39,276 --> 00:09:42,676 Speaker 1: had done for his family. I then stopped the recorder. 153 00:09:43,516 --> 00:09:48,276 Speaker 1: I rewounded to the beginning again and recorded over it. Now, 154 00:09:48,396 --> 00:09:50,796 Speaker 1: instead of him talking about how grateful his mother was 155 00:09:50,916 --> 00:09:53,676 Speaker 1: for him and the company, it was all bird song 156 00:09:54,036 --> 00:10:03,236 Speaker 1: and trees rustling in the distance. When I got back 157 00:10:03,276 --> 00:10:05,756 Speaker 1: to New York. I told the company about the unfortunate 158 00:10:05,836 --> 00:10:08,796 Speaker 1: incident about losing the tape of Kenzo's story, but I 159 00:10:08,796 --> 00:10:11,196 Speaker 1: also I told them not to warry. I had a solution. 160 00:10:12,156 --> 00:10:15,196 Speaker 1: Instead of a story about a mother converted into an entrepreneur, 161 00:10:15,836 --> 00:10:17,916 Speaker 1: I would tell the story of a mother who loved 162 00:10:17,916 --> 00:10:21,076 Speaker 1: her son so much she did all she could to 163 00:10:21,116 --> 00:10:25,196 Speaker 1: help him. And that's what I did. I'm not really 164 00:10:25,196 --> 00:10:27,436 Speaker 1: sure what the company made a bit. They didn't provide 165 00:10:27,436 --> 00:10:29,516 Speaker 1: a lot of feedback, and as far as I know, 166 00:10:29,676 --> 00:10:32,356 Speaker 1: the story has never seen the light of day. I 167 00:10:32,436 --> 00:10:36,516 Speaker 1: did get paid, though. When I received my check, I 168 00:10:36,596 --> 00:10:38,756 Speaker 1: took my friend Laaras out for drinks again, and I 169 00:10:38,796 --> 00:10:40,596 Speaker 1: told him about how the story I've been sent to 170 00:10:40,636 --> 00:10:42,996 Speaker 1: get turned out to be different. Once I was there, 171 00:10:43,756 --> 00:10:46,076 Speaker 1: I told him about Mazuko and how I taped over 172 00:10:46,156 --> 00:10:49,116 Speaker 1: my conversation with Kenzo, and I told him that someone 173 00:10:49,116 --> 00:10:51,996 Speaker 1: should open a lunch truck that makes cheesesteaks with hacho 174 00:10:52,036 --> 00:10:57,356 Speaker 1: miso paste. Lara sipped his beer. Yeah, but the story 175 00:10:57,396 --> 00:11:00,116 Speaker 1: about how you had to override the story, that's the 176 00:11:00,156 --> 00:11:02,156 Speaker 1: best story of them all. You should do stuff like 177 00:11:02,196 --> 00:11:04,996 Speaker 1: that on your show when you finally get one and 178 00:11:05,116 --> 00:11:15,196 Speaker 1: so that's what I did. Brendan Francis Nunham, everybody, and 179 00:11:15,396 --> 00:11:18,636 Speaker 1: this is not Lost Chat, my series of conversations with 180 00:11:18,716 --> 00:11:22,516 Speaker 1: fellow travelers. On today's episode, we speak to a writer 181 00:11:22,636 --> 00:11:26,156 Speaker 1: who does the opposite of parachute into a place to 182 00:11:26,156 --> 00:11:29,476 Speaker 1: tell a preconceived story for his latest book, The Serpent 183 00:11:29,556 --> 00:11:33,996 Speaker 1: Quote in Naples. Poet and travel writer Marius Kajakowski lived 184 00:11:34,036 --> 00:11:36,596 Speaker 1: in Italy City of the Sun, and then shares what 185 00:11:36,636 --> 00:11:40,716 Speaker 1: he learned. And after that, TV writer Sas and comedian 186 00:11:40,796 --> 00:11:44,396 Speaker 1: Jesse Klein tells us about her preferred mode of visiting places. 187 00:11:45,036 --> 00:11:49,436 Speaker 1: I do love to sit near the ocean and drink 188 00:11:50,236 --> 00:11:53,556 Speaker 1: and that makes her perfectly qualified to help me help 189 00:11:53,596 --> 00:11:57,676 Speaker 1: you with your travel questions. So stick around, but first 190 00:11:58,036 --> 00:12:09,636 Speaker 1: we need to keep the lights on at Pushkin. My 191 00:12:09,956 --> 00:12:15,676 Speaker 1: first guest today is Marius Kaziovski. He is a poet, essayist, 192 00:12:16,036 --> 00:12:20,036 Speaker 1: travel writer and now after reading him and researching him 193 00:12:20,436 --> 00:12:23,756 Speaker 1: my role model and after you hear him, I hope 194 00:12:23,796 --> 00:12:26,916 Speaker 1: you'll understand why. Marius was born in Canada to an 195 00:12:26,956 --> 00:12:29,916 Speaker 1: English mother and Polish father. He then moved to London, 196 00:12:30,076 --> 00:12:32,076 Speaker 1: where he wrote and made a living in the rare 197 00:12:32,116 --> 00:12:34,796 Speaker 1: book trade. But he first came on the scene as 198 00:12:34,796 --> 00:12:38,876 Speaker 1: a poet. His first collection of poems won the Cheltenham Prize, 199 00:12:39,276 --> 00:12:42,076 Speaker 1: which is an honor he shares with such luminaries as 200 00:12:42,156 --> 00:12:46,716 Speaker 1: Kazio Jaguro and Hilary Mantle Pretty nice company. And his 201 00:12:46,796 --> 00:12:51,516 Speaker 1: first prose works were travel writings, primarily on Syria, which 202 00:12:51,556 --> 00:12:54,116 Speaker 1: is a country he really came to love after spending 203 00:12:54,236 --> 00:12:58,916 Speaker 1: time there. Of late, Marius has developed a new geographic 204 00:12:58,996 --> 00:13:04,636 Speaker 1: paramore Naples. Primarily, he focuses on the people that live there, 205 00:13:04,876 --> 00:13:08,196 Speaker 1: the merchants, the musicians, the landlords, and he gets to 206 00:13:08,236 --> 00:13:11,116 Speaker 1: know them by living there. He embeds himself into these 207 00:13:11,156 --> 00:13:15,516 Speaker 1: communities and immerses himself in research. His most recent book 208 00:13:15,676 --> 00:13:19,196 Speaker 1: is called The Serpent Coiled in Naples, and The New 209 00:13:19,276 --> 00:13:21,596 Speaker 1: Yorker put it on their list of best non fiction 210 00:13:21,636 --> 00:13:24,756 Speaker 1: books of twenty twenty two, which could be part of 211 00:13:24,756 --> 00:13:27,236 Speaker 1: the reason it was really hard to find. I looked 212 00:13:27,276 --> 00:13:30,996 Speaker 1: at the Strand in Manhattan. I looked at Pals in 213 00:13:31,596 --> 00:13:35,636 Speaker 1: Portland and Elliott Bay and Seattle. No Dice finally was 214 00:13:35,676 --> 00:13:39,356 Speaker 1: able to finagle a copy. Anyway, I was very excited 215 00:13:39,396 --> 00:13:42,676 Speaker 1: to finally dive into it. He is such a wonderful 216 00:13:42,676 --> 00:13:44,796 Speaker 1: guide and That's what I asked him to do when 217 00:13:44,836 --> 00:13:48,196 Speaker 1: we started our conversation. I asked him to take me 218 00:13:48,556 --> 00:13:55,276 Speaker 1: and you listeners on an imaginary tour of his Naples. Right. Well, 219 00:13:55,676 --> 00:13:58,876 Speaker 1: if we're walking, I think we would go up from 220 00:13:58,876 --> 00:14:05,476 Speaker 1: the Bay of Naples, up the Via Roma and towards Spaccanopoly, 221 00:14:05,676 --> 00:14:10,236 Speaker 1: which is the old bit of town. And I usually 222 00:14:10,356 --> 00:14:16,596 Speaker 1: stay in an area called Forchella. You go from Spaccanopoly, 223 00:14:16,756 --> 00:14:21,796 Speaker 1: you cross the Via Duomo and you're in the crime zone. 224 00:14:22,756 --> 00:14:25,836 Speaker 1: Even when I talk to Neapolitans and they asked me 225 00:14:25,876 --> 00:14:31,636 Speaker 1: where I'm staying, they can't believe it. Fortella, It's real. 226 00:14:32,076 --> 00:14:36,876 Speaker 1: I like the people. I have a wonderful landlady called Milannia, 227 00:14:37,156 --> 00:14:41,316 Speaker 1: who has just you want a picture where we are, Yes, 228 00:14:41,556 --> 00:14:46,756 Speaker 1: we're getting. Where I'm leading you to is to Milannia's ankle, 229 00:14:47,956 --> 00:14:54,276 Speaker 1: upon which she has a serpent tattooed. Now that's entirely coincidental. 230 00:14:54,756 --> 00:14:57,796 Speaker 1: She didn't put the serpent there in order to fit 231 00:14:57,876 --> 00:15:02,156 Speaker 1: the theme of my book. Milannia lives in this rather 232 00:15:02,316 --> 00:15:07,036 Speaker 1: rickety apartment block, which is held together with wooden beams, 233 00:15:07,076 --> 00:15:11,636 Speaker 1: and has been that way for decades. Ever since the 234 00:15:12,796 --> 00:15:18,116 Speaker 1: earthquake of nineteen eighty. So the building could topple at 235 00:15:18,116 --> 00:15:21,276 Speaker 1: any time, I suppose, But then so could the whole 236 00:15:21,356 --> 00:15:27,036 Speaker 1: of Naples. It's complex, and you do such a marvelous 237 00:15:27,116 --> 00:15:31,796 Speaker 1: job bringing your reader into the maelstrom of history and 238 00:15:31,956 --> 00:15:38,116 Speaker 1: ideas and characters. The Serpentine that's on the foot. Also, 239 00:15:38,716 --> 00:15:41,036 Speaker 1: the title of your book came before you encountered her. 240 00:15:41,076 --> 00:15:43,996 Speaker 1: It seems the Serpentine of Naples. It did you. The 241 00:15:44,276 --> 00:15:47,836 Speaker 1: quote I believe is um never fear Rome. The serpentine 242 00:15:48,596 --> 00:15:56,996 Speaker 1: lies coiled in Naples. Yes, my Tomo Romata atracellato anopoly, 243 00:15:57,796 --> 00:16:03,636 Speaker 1: don't fear roam. The serpent laws coiled in Naples. As 244 00:16:03,716 --> 00:16:08,076 Speaker 1: soon as I read that, and even without knowing exactly 245 00:16:08,156 --> 00:16:12,316 Speaker 1: what it meant, there was my title, The serpent coil 246 00:16:12,396 --> 00:16:15,396 Speaker 1: to Naples. I've never done that before. I've never gone 247 00:16:16,156 --> 00:16:19,996 Speaker 1: into a situation or to a place we've already made title. 248 00:16:20,116 --> 00:16:24,076 Speaker 1: But it was a gift, as it were. Yeah, and 249 00:16:24,196 --> 00:16:29,516 Speaker 1: you spend the book unpacking that title. But there's another quote. 250 00:16:29,556 --> 00:16:32,156 Speaker 1: If you open all the doors of Naples, Rome disappears 251 00:16:32,516 --> 00:16:35,916 Speaker 1: to situate what Naples means in the mindset of Italians. 252 00:16:35,956 --> 00:16:40,196 Speaker 1: And I would broaden it to say Europeans talk about 253 00:16:40,236 --> 00:16:44,196 Speaker 1: that crosstown rivalry and what Naples represents. I mean, there is, 254 00:16:44,396 --> 00:16:48,676 Speaker 1: of course a constant rivalry between the North and South 255 00:16:48,756 --> 00:16:54,316 Speaker 1: of Italy, and of course you see this exemplified particularly 256 00:16:54,356 --> 00:16:58,156 Speaker 1: at football games. You know they're really out to kill 257 00:16:58,236 --> 00:17:03,996 Speaker 1: each other. But there is something else which distinguishes Naples 258 00:17:04,436 --> 00:17:10,716 Speaker 1: from any other big city in Italy, which is I 259 00:17:10,876 --> 00:17:15,956 Speaker 1: think hugely important. If you go to Venice, if you 260 00:17:16,076 --> 00:17:20,396 Speaker 1: go to Florence, you go to Rome, the old centers 261 00:17:20,676 --> 00:17:27,516 Speaker 1: of those places have now been given over to tourism, restaurants, whatever, 262 00:17:27,636 --> 00:17:34,916 Speaker 1: else whereas in Naples you're still looking at a center 263 00:17:35,036 --> 00:17:40,076 Speaker 1: which is occupied by the original people, and that makes 264 00:17:40,116 --> 00:17:44,436 Speaker 1: it unique. I had this beautifully illustrated for me a 265 00:17:44,556 --> 00:17:48,396 Speaker 1: few years ago when a lady showed me a stretch 266 00:17:48,596 --> 00:17:51,356 Speaker 1: of pavement and she said, take a look at this 267 00:17:51,596 --> 00:17:56,796 Speaker 1: groove in a stone, you know, a simple, shallow groove, 268 00:17:58,076 --> 00:18:00,716 Speaker 1: and she said, and follow it and it led to 269 00:18:00,796 --> 00:18:05,636 Speaker 1: a fishmonger, and she said, that groove is centuries old, 270 00:18:06,556 --> 00:18:11,796 Speaker 1: and as you'll see, the fishmonger is still here. That 271 00:18:13,316 --> 00:18:15,956 Speaker 1: it was. What are the most invaluable lessons I had 272 00:18:15,996 --> 00:18:19,756 Speaker 1: about Naples? Right, that's such a striking moment. There's water 273 00:18:20,196 --> 00:18:25,436 Speaker 1: that's been dripping from this fishmonger's cart and shop for centuries, 274 00:18:25,556 --> 00:18:28,676 Speaker 1: which caused that groove. You know, it also reminds me 275 00:18:28,756 --> 00:18:31,956 Speaker 1: at one point you write blood tears and semen have 276 00:18:32,116 --> 00:18:35,356 Speaker 1: seeped into an ooze from every crack of this old 277 00:18:35,396 --> 00:18:39,756 Speaker 1: town center, which I think does get across the kind 278 00:18:39,796 --> 00:18:44,276 Speaker 1: of dankness and richness of these impoverished quarters of Naples, 279 00:18:44,596 --> 00:18:47,556 Speaker 1: to pick one of those. You talk a lot about 280 00:18:47,636 --> 00:18:50,396 Speaker 1: blood in this book. It's ever present. Can you explain 281 00:18:50,476 --> 00:18:54,796 Speaker 1: that a little bit? Yes, yes, blood. Well, when I 282 00:18:54,916 --> 00:18:59,276 Speaker 1: wrote that line, I was thinking in particular of the 283 00:18:59,396 --> 00:19:07,836 Speaker 1: great composer Jaswaldo, who discovered that his wife was having 284 00:19:07,876 --> 00:19:13,756 Speaker 1: an affair and came home late one night, caught the 285 00:19:13,876 --> 00:19:19,676 Speaker 1: madd it and stabbed both of them to death, and 286 00:19:21,076 --> 00:19:24,396 Speaker 1: had their bodies dragged out onto the pavement, where they 287 00:19:24,516 --> 00:19:29,556 Speaker 1: lay for about a week. But of course that that's 288 00:19:29,756 --> 00:19:35,236 Speaker 1: just one form of blood. There's also the gangs. Indeed, 289 00:19:35,516 --> 00:19:39,116 Speaker 1: there is one zone in the north of a part 290 00:19:39,156 --> 00:19:43,836 Speaker 1: of Naples called Scampia. The police don't go into that zone. 291 00:19:43,996 --> 00:19:47,116 Speaker 1: It's one of the most well, it is the most 292 00:19:47,276 --> 00:19:51,116 Speaker 1: violent area in the whole of Europe. You know, you 293 00:19:51,156 --> 00:19:55,356 Speaker 1: can go out on the street and never be sure 294 00:19:56,596 --> 00:20:00,916 Speaker 1: whether you're looking at a regular citizen or a killer. 295 00:20:02,756 --> 00:20:05,196 Speaker 1: And of course it's very sad. They say that if 296 00:20:05,276 --> 00:20:09,676 Speaker 1: you go into any cafe and you buy a espresso, 297 00:20:10,716 --> 00:20:14,916 Speaker 1: a percentage of the price of that espresso will finally 298 00:20:15,116 --> 00:20:20,116 Speaker 1: end up in the Camorra's pockets. There are also all 299 00:20:20,276 --> 00:20:25,316 Speaker 1: kinds of other contradictions in that in recent years Naples 300 00:20:25,436 --> 00:20:29,076 Speaker 1: has become a much safer place to visit. Why is 301 00:20:29,196 --> 00:20:35,596 Speaker 1: that because the Camorra have put out the message to 302 00:20:35,796 --> 00:20:41,796 Speaker 1: leave the tourists alone. Why have they done that because 303 00:20:42,276 --> 00:20:45,436 Speaker 1: they own a good bit of the tourist industry, so 304 00:20:45,556 --> 00:20:47,956 Speaker 1: they would like it to be a safe place for tourists. 305 00:20:49,436 --> 00:20:54,796 Speaker 1: And I've never in my time they're experienced any trouble. 306 00:20:55,836 --> 00:20:59,716 Speaker 1: That said, all of that is now being threatened. Naples 307 00:20:59,996 --> 00:21:04,956 Speaker 1: is becoming more and more of a popular tourists destination, 308 00:21:05,876 --> 00:21:11,636 Speaker 1: and there is gentrification moving even into Fortella, the tough 309 00:21:11,756 --> 00:21:17,836 Speaker 1: zone where I stay. And so it's always with a 310 00:21:18,036 --> 00:21:24,156 Speaker 1: certain amount of hesitation that I recommend places that I love. 311 00:21:25,276 --> 00:21:31,036 Speaker 1: You know, tourism is in so many ways the enemy 312 00:21:31,316 --> 00:21:35,076 Speaker 1: of all that one loves about a place yes, and 313 00:21:35,636 --> 00:21:43,836 Speaker 1: there's Seventeenth century churchman and historian Thomas Fuller said that 314 00:21:44,036 --> 00:21:49,596 Speaker 1: travel makes a wise man better, but a fool worse. 315 00:21:51,916 --> 00:21:57,516 Speaker 1: And unfortunately you see more fools than wise men on 316 00:21:57,636 --> 00:22:00,956 Speaker 1: the streets. You know, you know, you're you're putting your 317 00:22:00,996 --> 00:22:04,356 Speaker 1: finger on I think something in a much smaller way, 318 00:22:04,396 --> 00:22:06,876 Speaker 1: I've struggled with, but the burden, for lack of a 319 00:22:06,916 --> 00:22:09,676 Speaker 1: better word, of a travel writer, which is the compulsion 320 00:22:09,796 --> 00:22:12,636 Speaker 1: to share, yes, to really take an X ray on 321 00:22:12,716 --> 00:22:16,476 Speaker 1: a place and pass that information along. And yet the 322 00:22:16,596 --> 00:22:19,276 Speaker 1: closer you get to your subject, the more you want 323 00:22:19,316 --> 00:22:22,516 Speaker 1: to protect it. Yes, And so how do you reconcile 324 00:22:22,596 --> 00:22:25,156 Speaker 1: that tension? What makes you decide to go for I haven't. 325 00:22:25,636 --> 00:22:28,636 Speaker 1: I haven't yet reconciled it. I don't know if I 326 00:22:28,756 --> 00:22:33,236 Speaker 1: ever will. You know. In the final chapter of my book, 327 00:22:33,476 --> 00:22:38,396 Speaker 1: I write about going to a particular festa on the 328 00:22:38,476 --> 00:22:45,556 Speaker 1: slopes of Vesuvius, and it took me months to get 329 00:22:45,636 --> 00:22:49,876 Speaker 1: onto that, and it was the most wonderful experience for me. 330 00:22:50,116 --> 00:22:54,796 Speaker 1: But in writing about it, my deepest fear is that 331 00:22:54,996 --> 00:22:59,036 Speaker 1: I've exposed it. Yes, And I'm thinking to myself, you know, 332 00:22:59,156 --> 00:23:03,916 Speaker 1: suppose one day a tourist boss goes up that slope 333 00:23:04,276 --> 00:23:08,836 Speaker 1: and tries to join in with a festa. Yeah, I 334 00:23:09,156 --> 00:23:14,476 Speaker 1: have to say I would feel incredibly guilty. Mm, But 335 00:23:14,636 --> 00:23:16,996 Speaker 1: you still wrote it. I still wrote it. You still 336 00:23:17,236 --> 00:23:20,476 Speaker 1: That's the contradiction you're talking about, and it's the one 337 00:23:20,796 --> 00:23:24,796 Speaker 1: I have not yet resolved myself, and I wonder if 338 00:23:24,836 --> 00:23:28,956 Speaker 1: I ever will. Writing is my passion, and you know, 339 00:23:29,076 --> 00:23:31,356 Speaker 1: falling in love with a place is in a sense 340 00:23:31,476 --> 00:23:35,236 Speaker 1: a kind of romance, and one wants to be true 341 00:23:35,316 --> 00:23:38,116 Speaker 1: to what one sees. You said at one point an 342 00:23:38,196 --> 00:23:41,036 Speaker 1: old joke, someone's on a train and they ask the 343 00:23:41,116 --> 00:23:44,236 Speaker 1: conductor when do we arrive in Naples? And he said, 344 00:23:44,316 --> 00:23:46,556 Speaker 1: hold up your wrist to your eye, look at your watch, 345 00:23:47,236 --> 00:23:50,036 Speaker 1: and look at the minute hand. And when your watch disappears, 346 00:23:50,076 --> 00:23:53,716 Speaker 1: you're in Naples. Yeah. I'll let that fall on your head, 347 00:23:53,876 --> 00:23:58,396 Speaker 1: not mine. You've got to walk down from the streets. 348 00:23:59,276 --> 00:24:00,916 Speaker 1: I mean, they have to go through some pretty tough 349 00:24:00,956 --> 00:24:05,916 Speaker 1: neighborhoods get to me, right, they might give Naples a 350 00:24:05,996 --> 00:24:08,436 Speaker 1: run for his money. Well, it's interesting the preamble when 351 00:24:08,436 --> 00:24:11,276 Speaker 1: you're described described as a poet, an essayist, and a 352 00:24:11,396 --> 00:24:14,756 Speaker 1: travel writer. And I don't I don't really see you 353 00:24:14,796 --> 00:24:17,996 Speaker 1: as a travel writer in that you've written about Naples previously, 354 00:24:18,076 --> 00:24:22,796 Speaker 1: You've written books about Syria, Damascus, and that's another place 355 00:24:23,036 --> 00:24:25,756 Speaker 1: you're talking about love that you it seems you fell 356 00:24:25,836 --> 00:24:30,276 Speaker 1: in love with and you really steep yourself and into 357 00:24:30,356 --> 00:24:35,636 Speaker 1: these cultures, right, both intellectually as well as physically. So, Yeah, 358 00:24:35,716 --> 00:24:40,516 Speaker 1: do you see any distinction between between yourself and what's 359 00:24:40,516 --> 00:24:45,876 Speaker 1: considered a travel writer? Um? I think it's fantastic that 360 00:24:46,036 --> 00:24:51,756 Speaker 1: you raised this question, because I think I constantly disqualify 361 00:24:51,916 --> 00:24:55,876 Speaker 1: myself as a travel writer. The reason I'm called that 362 00:24:55,996 --> 00:24:58,436 Speaker 1: occasionally is so they know where to put me in 363 00:24:58,476 --> 00:25:02,556 Speaker 1: the bookshops, you know. And I think the main reason 364 00:25:02,676 --> 00:25:09,996 Speaker 1: for that being that I don't travel through places so 365 00:25:10,196 --> 00:25:14,676 Speaker 1: much as I do through the lives of people. And 366 00:25:14,916 --> 00:25:18,156 Speaker 1: my thinking is that if you get close to someone 367 00:25:19,516 --> 00:25:24,716 Speaker 1: that sooner or later that person will reflect his or 368 00:25:24,796 --> 00:25:32,556 Speaker 1: her surroundings. I enjoy people, I enjoy their stories, and 369 00:25:32,836 --> 00:25:39,596 Speaker 1: what their stories tell me is really about the place. Yeah, 370 00:25:40,316 --> 00:25:42,436 Speaker 1: it seems you consult. You do consult with both the 371 00:25:42,556 --> 00:25:45,316 Speaker 1: living and the dead. So who helps you more the 372 00:25:45,436 --> 00:25:47,396 Speaker 1: living or the dead. When you're kind of trying to 373 00:25:47,436 --> 00:25:51,196 Speaker 1: figure out a place Naples like nowhere else I've been. 374 00:25:52,276 --> 00:25:56,276 Speaker 1: The dead are always with you, They're with the Neapolitans. 375 00:25:56,836 --> 00:25:59,876 Speaker 1: I had somebody criticized me for saying, oh, you don't 376 00:25:59,996 --> 00:26:02,716 Speaker 1: talk correctly about the dead, and I said, look, it's 377 00:26:02,756 --> 00:26:08,956 Speaker 1: not me, it's them, you know, it's Neapolitans addressing the dead, 378 00:26:09,716 --> 00:26:15,436 Speaker 1: and the dead addressing them. When Naples won the World 379 00:26:15,596 --> 00:26:21,596 Speaker 1: Cup with the Great Maradonna, people rushed to the cemetery 380 00:26:22,596 --> 00:26:25,276 Speaker 1: to tell the dead, you've no idea what you missed. 381 00:26:25,996 --> 00:26:32,036 Speaker 1: And and you know, the whole belief system with the 382 00:26:32,596 --> 00:26:34,676 Speaker 1: skull of cults, which is probably the reason why I 383 00:26:34,756 --> 00:26:38,596 Speaker 1: went there, is that there is this sort of communication, 384 00:26:39,396 --> 00:26:42,716 Speaker 1: you know, this flow between the living and the dead, 385 00:26:43,196 --> 00:26:47,036 Speaker 1: such that there is no barrier left between them. Yeah, 386 00:26:47,116 --> 00:26:50,876 Speaker 1: you're right of going into, for example, the volcanic quarries 387 00:26:51,116 --> 00:26:56,116 Speaker 1: underneath Naples, and and and they're packed with skulls, when 388 00:26:56,236 --> 00:27:00,076 Speaker 1: some of them are shiny, burnished, almost like a like 389 00:27:00,196 --> 00:27:03,916 Speaker 1: a polished shoe, because they're touched so often. Yes, for 390 00:27:04,196 --> 00:27:08,956 Speaker 1: your good luck, yes, indeed indeed. And and of course 391 00:27:09,116 --> 00:27:12,276 Speaker 1: the skull cult there is rather different than that which 392 00:27:12,316 --> 00:27:18,876 Speaker 1: you will find in Mexico. You adopt a skull, you 393 00:27:18,996 --> 00:27:22,676 Speaker 1: take care of it, keep it clean, dust it off, 394 00:27:22,836 --> 00:27:27,396 Speaker 1: you know now and then the spirit possessor of that 395 00:27:27,556 --> 00:27:33,076 Speaker 1: skull will come to you in dreams and you can 396 00:27:33,156 --> 00:27:38,636 Speaker 1: ask questions. But you know, the Neapolitans, being Neapolitan, they 397 00:27:38,756 --> 00:27:41,116 Speaker 1: tend to ask for the lot for the lottery ticket 398 00:27:41,236 --> 00:27:46,076 Speaker 1: numbers or the used to used to one point, you say, 399 00:27:46,396 --> 00:27:50,356 Speaker 1: any place one chooses the map is unmappable, And so 400 00:27:50,476 --> 00:27:53,236 Speaker 1: I ask you why mapp it? Why? Why? Why take 401 00:27:53,236 --> 00:27:56,916 Speaker 1: a crack at this? Well, I'm always cautious when it 402 00:27:56,996 --> 00:28:01,956 Speaker 1: comes to talking about let's say, in the journeys I've 403 00:28:02,036 --> 00:28:05,596 Speaker 1: or year half British. Yeah, I always I always felt 404 00:28:05,636 --> 00:28:09,756 Speaker 1: that's a load of nonsense myself. You know, one one 405 00:28:09,876 --> 00:28:13,836 Speaker 1: goes to learn, one goes to see. But in terms 406 00:28:13,956 --> 00:28:17,716 Speaker 1: of that great revolution in the soul that's supposed to 407 00:28:17,796 --> 00:28:21,476 Speaker 1: take place, I mean, have you ever heard of anything 408 00:28:21,636 --> 00:28:25,836 Speaker 1: so vain? I mean, it's awful, and I think it. 409 00:28:26,516 --> 00:28:30,796 Speaker 1: I think that very notion has contaminated a lot of 410 00:28:32,316 --> 00:28:38,516 Speaker 1: travel literature. And I always tell people, you know, go 411 00:28:40,036 --> 00:28:45,916 Speaker 1: go to a place with modesty and curiosity, but don't 412 00:28:45,996 --> 00:28:50,596 Speaker 1: go in the expectation of altering the state of your soul. 413 00:28:51,676 --> 00:28:55,236 Speaker 1: You know, respect and intelligence as a way to approach 414 00:28:55,316 --> 00:29:00,236 Speaker 1: any place, And of course, in that respect, I've always 415 00:29:00,316 --> 00:29:04,556 Speaker 1: maintained that the puffballs of peace are sometimes worse than 416 00:29:04,716 --> 00:29:10,276 Speaker 1: the missiles of war. Tourism is the soft weapon which 417 00:29:10,396 --> 00:29:15,676 Speaker 1: is destroying so many places. I was really shocked when 418 00:29:15,716 --> 00:29:19,116 Speaker 1: I went to a Malfi for the first time, where 419 00:29:19,356 --> 00:29:25,356 Speaker 1: every square inch of the center of Amalfi it's given 420 00:29:25,436 --> 00:29:30,676 Speaker 1: over to tourism, whether it's postcards, ice creams, or souvenir shops. 421 00:29:31,476 --> 00:29:34,916 Speaker 1: I just found it incredibly depressing that you have this 422 00:29:35,076 --> 00:29:39,156 Speaker 1: beautiful city in the middle of the most beautiful landscape, 423 00:29:40,436 --> 00:29:46,596 Speaker 1: and yet it's been completely ruined. The very reason that 424 00:29:46,756 --> 00:29:48,796 Speaker 1: people went there in the first place was to see 425 00:29:48,876 --> 00:29:52,076 Speaker 1: the magic. The magic is long gone. I think that's 426 00:29:52,156 --> 00:29:54,836 Speaker 1: I think that might be a good place to end. 427 00:29:55,196 --> 00:29:57,116 Speaker 1: I'm going to encourage you never to listen to my 428 00:29:57,236 --> 00:30:00,716 Speaker 1: podcast if you don't like personal journeys blended with your travel. 429 00:30:01,236 --> 00:30:05,956 Speaker 1: But I think you'll find that my curiosity and interest 430 00:30:06,076 --> 00:30:09,036 Speaker 1: in true local folks and what they have to say 431 00:30:09,276 --> 00:30:11,996 Speaker 1: is at the heart of my project. Thank you for 432 00:30:12,196 --> 00:30:14,116 Speaker 1: taking the time to chat with me this evening. My 433 00:30:14,276 --> 00:30:23,956 Speaker 1: great pleasure, My great pleasure. Marius Kachaovsky his latest book 434 00:30:24,116 --> 00:30:28,196 Speaker 1: is called The Serpent Coiled in Naples, and I encourage 435 00:30:28,196 --> 00:30:30,956 Speaker 1: you to check it out. We hardly scratched its surface here. 436 00:30:31,036 --> 00:30:35,316 Speaker 1: It's a really, really rich book. And honestly, I was 437 00:30:35,476 --> 00:30:38,236 Speaker 1: hoping that Marius and I would become best friends forever 438 00:30:38,436 --> 00:30:41,116 Speaker 1: after our conversation, but I kind of have a feeling 439 00:30:41,156 --> 00:30:44,556 Speaker 1: after he hears me naval gazing in front of Leonard 440 00:30:44,596 --> 00:30:47,716 Speaker 1: Cohen's house in Montreal, Hill want nothing to do with me. 441 00:30:48,316 --> 00:30:50,796 Speaker 1: That's okay, Maybe I'll just stare in front of Marius's 442 00:30:50,836 --> 00:30:53,596 Speaker 1: house in London at some point in the future. But 443 00:30:53,876 --> 00:30:55,836 Speaker 1: fortunately for me, after the break, I'm going to be 444 00:30:55,956 --> 00:31:00,836 Speaker 1: joined by another naval gazey writer, Jesse Klein. She's also 445 00:31:00,876 --> 00:31:03,716 Speaker 1: a comedian, and I have a feeling she's gonna like 446 00:31:03,836 --> 00:31:07,036 Speaker 1: my style. That is nice, a man with a sports 447 00:31:07,076 --> 00:31:08,956 Speaker 1: coat with that inner pass that is kind of a 448 00:31:10,276 --> 00:31:20,036 Speaker 1: not Lost. We'll be right back, all right, We are 449 00:31:20,116 --> 00:31:24,116 Speaker 1: back here at Not Lost Chat. I am coming to 450 00:31:24,196 --> 00:31:28,556 Speaker 1: you today from Manhattan. I live in Brooklyn and I've 451 00:31:28,596 --> 00:31:31,916 Speaker 1: been commuting more and more here to Manhattan to help 452 00:31:31,996 --> 00:31:35,996 Speaker 1: make this show. And I've noticed that people are walking slower, 453 00:31:36,876 --> 00:31:40,836 Speaker 1: like maybe half a mile per hour slower and that 454 00:31:40,996 --> 00:31:44,116 Speaker 1: might not seem like much, but it does make a 455 00:31:44,156 --> 00:31:47,196 Speaker 1: difference when you are walking in the streets every day, 456 00:31:47,476 --> 00:31:50,436 Speaker 1: and I've been walking these streets for years. It's an 457 00:31:50,516 --> 00:31:53,076 Speaker 1: interesting shift. You can sense it when you're on the stairwell, 458 00:31:53,756 --> 00:31:56,876 Speaker 1: when you're moving around town. And whether it's related to 459 00:31:57,036 --> 00:32:02,556 Speaker 1: like post COVID lockdown disorientation or something else, I don't know. 460 00:32:03,196 --> 00:32:05,356 Speaker 1: I mean, actually I do know everyone is staring at 461 00:32:05,396 --> 00:32:09,036 Speaker 1: their phones. But anyway, whatever the reason, it really adds 462 00:32:09,276 --> 00:32:11,636 Speaker 1: this feeling I've had for the past few months that 463 00:32:12,036 --> 00:32:14,316 Speaker 1: I don't remember really how to behave around people like 464 00:32:14,436 --> 00:32:17,716 Speaker 1: I did before COVID, and arguably I didn't even really 465 00:32:17,796 --> 00:32:20,876 Speaker 1: know how to behave around them then. So to help 466 00:32:20,916 --> 00:32:23,796 Speaker 1: me refresh my memory and help other folks who might 467 00:32:23,796 --> 00:32:26,436 Speaker 1: be in the same boat, I've decided to invite a 468 00:32:26,516 --> 00:32:29,756 Speaker 1: World Savvy guest each week to help answer questions about 469 00:32:29,876 --> 00:32:33,156 Speaker 1: moving and traveling through the world, And this week I'm 470 00:32:33,236 --> 00:32:37,116 Speaker 1: joined by the TV writer, essayist and comedian Jesse Klein. 471 00:32:38,196 --> 00:32:40,436 Speaker 1: She is probably best known for her work on the 472 00:32:40,516 --> 00:32:43,316 Speaker 1: show Inside Emi Schumer, but she's also written for a 473 00:32:43,356 --> 00:32:46,916 Speaker 1: ton of other shows, like Transparent. She's a consulting producer 474 00:32:46,956 --> 00:32:49,836 Speaker 1: on the Netflix show Big Mouth, and she writes books too. 475 00:32:50,276 --> 00:32:52,836 Speaker 1: Her most recent book is called I'll Show Myself Out, 476 00:32:53,116 --> 00:32:56,516 Speaker 1: essays on midlife and motherhood. And with so much going 477 00:32:56,556 --> 00:32:58,316 Speaker 1: on in her life, I asked if she even has 478 00:32:58,356 --> 00:33:01,756 Speaker 1: time to travel. I think an illusion has been created 479 00:33:01,796 --> 00:33:07,236 Speaker 1: because I'm actually not. I'm I currently I am a 480 00:33:07,276 --> 00:33:10,596 Speaker 1: little bit unemployed, but I'm not that prolific. I think 481 00:33:10,636 --> 00:33:15,316 Speaker 1: because of the pandemic, certain things got slowed down that 482 00:33:15,436 --> 00:33:18,836 Speaker 1: would have like kind of come out along various different years. 483 00:33:19,236 --> 00:33:22,396 Speaker 1: And then because of COVID and have you heard of it? 484 00:33:22,636 --> 00:33:26,716 Speaker 1: Who's this virus we heard about in New York? Did 485 00:33:26,796 --> 00:33:29,836 Speaker 1: you get it there? Anyways, a bunch of things came 486 00:33:29,836 --> 00:33:31,836 Speaker 1: out at once, and it made it seem like, Oh, 487 00:33:31,956 --> 00:33:35,356 Speaker 1: who's this girl who's just endlessly working? But all of 488 00:33:35,396 --> 00:33:39,236 Speaker 1: these things took like five years of development. And anyways, 489 00:33:39,836 --> 00:33:44,676 Speaker 1: I don't take vacations because I'm working that hard. It 490 00:33:44,756 --> 00:33:46,876 Speaker 1: strikes me that you wouldn't be someone who takes a 491 00:33:46,996 --> 00:33:49,476 Speaker 1: vacation with like a coconut with a straw in it 492 00:33:49,636 --> 00:33:54,156 Speaker 1: kind of vacation, because I'm not that type of person either. Well, 493 00:33:54,556 --> 00:33:57,956 Speaker 1: I do think about, like, what's my ideal vacation. I 494 00:33:58,076 --> 00:34:02,636 Speaker 1: do love to sit near the ocean and drink. Okay, 495 00:34:03,356 --> 00:34:06,676 Speaker 1: I don't go in it a ton of sharks, but 496 00:34:06,876 --> 00:34:10,116 Speaker 1: to be near it, looking at it and drinking like 497 00:34:10,236 --> 00:34:14,556 Speaker 1: a cold sense sir. I don't know something if it's 498 00:34:14,596 --> 00:34:18,076 Speaker 1: in a coconut, sure, as long as it's But I 499 00:34:18,196 --> 00:34:20,236 Speaker 1: feel like I could only do that for so many days. 500 00:34:20,756 --> 00:34:23,876 Speaker 1: I do like walking through a beautiful city. Okay, I 501 00:34:23,956 --> 00:34:28,196 Speaker 1: am craving right now, some kind of maybe a forest okay, 502 00:34:28,596 --> 00:34:32,796 Speaker 1: forest bath or just farest walk. I guess I think 503 00:34:32,836 --> 00:34:35,116 Speaker 1: at this point in life now just if you're in 504 00:34:35,196 --> 00:34:37,196 Speaker 1: a forest, you're taking a forest bath. And if you're 505 00:34:37,236 --> 00:34:40,036 Speaker 1: hearing sounds or in a sound bath, well, okay, it's 506 00:34:40,036 --> 00:34:43,036 Speaker 1: just baby. I don't know. I think that's just the terminology. Now, 507 00:34:43,276 --> 00:34:46,196 Speaker 1: what separate is walking through a forest from a forest bath. 508 00:34:46,716 --> 00:34:49,756 Speaker 1: I think you pay someone named after a noun one 509 00:34:49,836 --> 00:34:52,436 Speaker 1: hundred and eighty dollars to take a forest bath, to 510 00:34:53,276 --> 00:34:58,156 Speaker 1: bathe willow. Willow's going to take me on my forest 511 00:34:58,196 --> 00:35:02,356 Speaker 1: bath exactly. Okay, that's helpful. So when I was preparing 512 00:35:02,396 --> 00:35:04,476 Speaker 1: to chat with you, I was reading some interviews you 513 00:35:04,556 --> 00:35:06,676 Speaker 1: did when your book came out about half a year 514 00:35:06,676 --> 00:35:09,516 Speaker 1: ago now, Yes. And in one of them, you talked 515 00:35:09,516 --> 00:35:13,516 Speaker 1: about Elizabeth Gilbert's book, Eat, Pray, Love, Yes, and you 516 00:35:13,636 --> 00:35:16,636 Speaker 1: said that you've read it a ton of times. I have, 517 00:35:17,196 --> 00:35:20,276 Speaker 1: And I mean I've interviewed Elizabeth Gilbert a couple of times. 518 00:35:20,436 --> 00:35:23,916 Speaker 1: She's brilliant. I think she's wonderful, so brilliant. But there 519 00:35:23,956 --> 00:35:26,916 Speaker 1: are only so many books in the world. Why would 520 00:35:26,956 --> 00:35:29,876 Speaker 1: you want to read that one more than once? That's 521 00:35:29,916 --> 00:35:32,476 Speaker 1: a really good question, I mean, especially when that book 522 00:35:32,516 --> 00:35:36,476 Speaker 1: came out, I think I was like exactly the strike 523 00:35:36,596 --> 00:35:40,156 Speaker 1: zone for it and just covers I think a lot 524 00:35:40,236 --> 00:35:44,476 Speaker 1: of human experience in a lovely smart way. I know 525 00:35:44,596 --> 00:35:46,236 Speaker 1: there was kind of a little bit of a backlash 526 00:35:46,276 --> 00:35:49,276 Speaker 1: to that book because I think for reasons that were 527 00:35:49,756 --> 00:35:52,476 Speaker 1: unrelated to the book or to Elizabeth Gilbert, it became 528 00:35:52,516 --> 00:35:56,836 Speaker 1: a little bit labeled like with sort of a basic 529 00:35:56,956 --> 00:36:01,076 Speaker 1: bitch brush that I don't think that's really super fair 530 00:36:01,196 --> 00:36:03,956 Speaker 1: to it. Having read your earlier book of essays, being 531 00:36:03,996 --> 00:36:06,436 Speaker 1: familiar with your work with Amy Schumer and other things, 532 00:36:06,556 --> 00:36:08,036 Speaker 1: you don't strike me as someone who would want to 533 00:36:08,036 --> 00:36:11,516 Speaker 1: go to Bali and kind of like find yourself and 534 00:36:11,676 --> 00:36:17,156 Speaker 1: get like Hannah tattoos. But maybe I'm wrong. Uh, definitely 535 00:36:17,316 --> 00:36:21,276 Speaker 1: not into the Hannah tattoo. You know, with travel the 536 00:36:21,436 --> 00:36:25,076 Speaker 1: day there's a teleporter, I'll go most places, but um, 537 00:36:25,836 --> 00:36:29,596 Speaker 1: I am at my core are a little lazy. So 538 00:36:30,036 --> 00:36:33,996 Speaker 1: the really really long flight really intimidates me. It's so dumb. 539 00:36:34,076 --> 00:36:37,076 Speaker 1: Why miss out on beautiful things in the world because 540 00:36:37,116 --> 00:36:38,636 Speaker 1: you don't want to go to the airport and began 541 00:36:38,676 --> 00:36:41,476 Speaker 1: a plane that long. It's dumb. So it's it's not 542 00:36:41,556 --> 00:36:43,676 Speaker 1: the basic bitch stuff that makes me anxious about it. 543 00:36:43,916 --> 00:36:46,356 Speaker 1: It's not being in the back of a moped that stuff, 544 00:36:46,436 --> 00:36:49,836 Speaker 1: totally okay, it's just the actual trip. The trip. I 545 00:36:49,996 --> 00:36:53,716 Speaker 1: get intimidated by the trip. I am actually, especially as 546 00:36:53,796 --> 00:36:57,596 Speaker 1: I creep towards just getting older and older and older 547 00:36:57,636 --> 00:37:00,916 Speaker 1: and older. I'm very into the woo woo finding yourself stuff. 548 00:37:01,356 --> 00:37:03,236 Speaker 1: I would absolutely do that. Have you read the book 549 00:37:03,236 --> 00:37:08,716 Speaker 1: called Yoga by Emmanuel Carrera. It's like the hot book. 550 00:37:09,156 --> 00:37:11,316 Speaker 1: That's what people are reading in New York in the 551 00:37:11,356 --> 00:37:15,116 Speaker 1: sub Okay, please help please. That's one of the things 552 00:37:15,196 --> 00:37:17,756 Speaker 1: I miss about New York is knowing what like, yeah, 553 00:37:17,876 --> 00:37:19,556 Speaker 1: you really are like what should I read? And you 554 00:37:19,636 --> 00:37:21,076 Speaker 1: look around and you're like, this is what people are 555 00:37:21,116 --> 00:37:24,836 Speaker 1: reading what's that rat? Reading? What pizza at? Pizza? What's 556 00:37:24,876 --> 00:37:30,076 Speaker 1: pizza at? Dragging pizza? Reading yoga yoga at uh. Anyway, 557 00:37:30,156 --> 00:37:31,316 Speaker 1: part of it is a guy who goes to this 558 00:37:31,356 --> 00:37:34,196 Speaker 1: meditation resort. He's been doing those things for years and 559 00:37:34,276 --> 00:37:36,916 Speaker 1: he has to be silent for ten days. Okay, Yeah, 560 00:37:37,116 --> 00:37:41,236 Speaker 1: silent is a no for me. I wouldn't do that. 561 00:37:41,436 --> 00:37:44,836 Speaker 1: And I also I'm realizing, like I want a caveat 562 00:37:45,076 --> 00:37:49,276 Speaker 1: finding myself. I will not be quiet and I won't uh, 563 00:37:49,556 --> 00:37:54,116 Speaker 1: and I can't. I can't. I won't meditate. Okay, So 564 00:37:54,516 --> 00:37:57,236 Speaker 1: you are obviously a jet setter. You love to be 565 00:37:57,316 --> 00:38:00,596 Speaker 1: in a plane, you know. Ye the drop of the hat, 566 00:38:00,756 --> 00:38:04,036 Speaker 1: you will cash in your travel points and go somewhere. 567 00:38:04,476 --> 00:38:07,716 Speaker 1: So you're perfectly qualified to help um some of my 568 00:38:07,876 --> 00:38:10,476 Speaker 1: listeners with their etiquette questions. I would I would love 569 00:38:10,476 --> 00:38:15,596 Speaker 1: to help ken. This first one comes from Anna from Wyoming. 570 00:38:16,556 --> 00:38:18,876 Speaker 1: She writes, this is because I've watched so many Real 571 00:38:18,916 --> 00:38:22,196 Speaker 1: Housewives strips and a big group how do you assign 572 00:38:22,316 --> 00:38:25,276 Speaker 1: rooms in a vacation house? Who gets the smallest room? 573 00:38:25,796 --> 00:38:27,396 Speaker 1: This is the cause of a lot of stress with 574 00:38:27,516 --> 00:38:29,436 Speaker 1: big group trips where there's a mix of singles and 575 00:38:29,476 --> 00:38:35,276 Speaker 1: couples also on Bachelor at weekends. Oh that's a really 576 00:38:35,796 --> 00:38:39,036 Speaker 1: really good question. That would stress me out. I'm picky 577 00:38:39,116 --> 00:38:42,716 Speaker 1: as hell, and I think at this point I would 578 00:38:42,756 --> 00:38:44,956 Speaker 1: probably be one of the people creating the problems. But 579 00:38:45,676 --> 00:38:48,076 Speaker 1: I agree with you. I would scope the entire joint. 580 00:38:48,196 --> 00:38:50,436 Speaker 1: I would do some calculus in my head and try 581 00:38:50,476 --> 00:38:54,396 Speaker 1: to get the best room possible without feeling like a jerk. Yeah, 582 00:38:54,516 --> 00:38:56,956 Speaker 1: I mean, I would say it feels like if there's 583 00:38:57,116 --> 00:39:03,196 Speaker 1: dedicated organizer to the trip, I would say, like, maybe 584 00:39:03,236 --> 00:39:06,516 Speaker 1: you're just like I'm going to assign those rooms. Everyone 585 00:39:06,596 --> 00:39:10,836 Speaker 1: knows in advance, so there's not that scramble. Yeah, you know, 586 00:39:10,956 --> 00:39:13,596 Speaker 1: I think you're I think having a leader like I 587 00:39:13,956 --> 00:39:15,956 Speaker 1: even I'm someone who's pretty picky, but if I know 588 00:39:16,036 --> 00:39:18,476 Speaker 1: I'm in good hands. As long as it's been thought about, 589 00:39:18,676 --> 00:39:21,796 Speaker 1: I could be in a less than excellent room because 590 00:39:21,796 --> 00:39:24,596 Speaker 1: I'm like some justice has been administered here, there's been 591 00:39:24,636 --> 00:39:26,916 Speaker 1: some thought to it. I don't like a free for 592 00:39:27,036 --> 00:39:29,556 Speaker 1: all because I feel guilty because I will win. But 593 00:39:29,636 --> 00:39:32,116 Speaker 1: then I want to join myself. Or I'll go the 594 00:39:32,196 --> 00:39:34,756 Speaker 1: other direction and take the worst room as like some martyr. 595 00:39:34,836 --> 00:39:37,476 Speaker 1: I'll be my mother and my father. Basically yeah, and 596 00:39:37,636 --> 00:39:40,356 Speaker 1: that doesn't feel good. A free for all is so 597 00:39:40,796 --> 00:39:43,836 Speaker 1: anxiety inducing, so Anna, I don't know if we answered 598 00:39:44,236 --> 00:39:48,036 Speaker 1: find a strong organizer and secretly lobby that organizer on 599 00:39:48,076 --> 00:39:51,756 Speaker 1: the side. Yes, okay, we have another question from Nicole 600 00:39:51,956 --> 00:39:54,956 Speaker 1: Nicole from New Jersey. Due to planes no longer guaranteeing 601 00:39:54,956 --> 00:39:58,316 Speaker 1: you to sit together unless you pay, do you agree 602 00:39:58,356 --> 00:40:00,996 Speaker 1: to give up your prepaid seat so that a parent 603 00:40:01,116 --> 00:40:05,836 Speaker 1: can sit with their child. Oh a hundred percent. Okay, 604 00:40:06,036 --> 00:40:10,076 Speaker 1: that's just karma points, you're well, I do it for 605 00:40:10,276 --> 00:40:15,756 Speaker 1: just like a healthy couple. No, no, no, no, get 606 00:40:15,876 --> 00:40:20,796 Speaker 1: healthy thriving couple, like two people who want to canoodle 607 00:40:21,156 --> 00:40:24,396 Speaker 1: the whole flight long. Absolutely not. But for a parent 608 00:40:24,476 --> 00:40:27,916 Speaker 1: and a kid, that's like, you got you gotta, you gotta. 609 00:40:28,956 --> 00:40:30,836 Speaker 1: I'm with you on this. As somebody who doesn't have 610 00:40:30,836 --> 00:40:33,236 Speaker 1: a kid, I still think that's a pretty mean, curmudgeingly 611 00:40:33,316 --> 00:40:35,436 Speaker 1: thing to do, to not give up your seat. I 612 00:40:35,556 --> 00:40:39,796 Speaker 1: will say, though, now any parent listening will not have 613 00:40:39,916 --> 00:40:42,396 Speaker 1: to prepay because they're just going to assume people will 614 00:40:42,596 --> 00:40:44,596 Speaker 1: give them their seat. Can I say, on the flip 615 00:40:44,676 --> 00:40:47,796 Speaker 1: side of all of this, if you are the parent 616 00:40:48,316 --> 00:40:52,676 Speaker 1: who was not able to get your seats together, and 617 00:40:52,756 --> 00:40:55,836 Speaker 1: someone is doing this kindness for you, and you are 618 00:40:55,916 --> 00:40:57,996 Speaker 1: showing up at that airport knowing you're going to have 619 00:40:58,116 --> 00:41:02,236 Speaker 1: to ask this. You better have some kind of a 620 00:41:02,356 --> 00:41:07,476 Speaker 1: gift card a I'm serious, like, have a thing, like, 621 00:41:08,196 --> 00:41:11,716 Speaker 1: have something to to offer as a thank you, because yeah, 622 00:41:11,756 --> 00:41:14,476 Speaker 1: the presumptuousness of it. Yeah, I think you got to 623 00:41:14,516 --> 00:41:16,236 Speaker 1: have some kind of little gift card in your pocket 624 00:41:16,276 --> 00:41:17,996 Speaker 1: for the place at least make the effort and then 625 00:41:18,076 --> 00:41:19,836 Speaker 1: the person should not accept it in a way, but 626 00:41:20,076 --> 00:41:23,356 Speaker 1: you should do the little dance of like I'd like to. Yeah. 627 00:41:23,676 --> 00:41:28,036 Speaker 1: It's it's not fair, but it's right. Um. So the 628 00:41:28,076 --> 00:41:30,516 Speaker 1: Peanut Gallery. I shared this with the Peanut Gallery for 629 00:41:31,716 --> 00:41:35,036 Speaker 1: asking this question, and one parents said, I love the 630 00:41:35,116 --> 00:41:37,276 Speaker 1: idea of dropping my kid off with a stranger. Good luck, 631 00:41:37,356 --> 00:41:39,116 Speaker 1: Like if they won't give up their seat, good luck, 632 00:41:40,396 --> 00:41:43,476 Speaker 1: Like have have fun with my five year old. Yeah, 633 00:41:43,556 --> 00:41:45,796 Speaker 1: have at it. Yeah, have ad it, buddy. They're going 634 00:41:45,836 --> 00:41:50,236 Speaker 1: to be screaming and freaking smash goldfish falling out of 635 00:41:50,316 --> 00:41:54,276 Speaker 1: your clothes. Okay. This question comes from Coco from Miami. 636 00:41:54,596 --> 00:41:56,516 Speaker 1: The question is is it weird to take your shoes 637 00:41:56,556 --> 00:42:00,916 Speaker 1: off on the plane? It's weird to take your shoes 638 00:42:00,916 --> 00:42:04,796 Speaker 1: off and not have on a sock. Okay, I'm okay 639 00:42:05,756 --> 00:42:08,596 Speaker 1: with a shoe off. If you're in a sock, I 640 00:42:08,676 --> 00:42:12,436 Speaker 1: can't even imagine who's going to have a barefoot on 641 00:42:12,516 --> 00:42:14,596 Speaker 1: a plane. But I mean, you can't imagine you've flown 642 00:42:14,636 --> 00:42:16,716 Speaker 1: in America ly well? I mean I was. I was 643 00:42:16,796 --> 00:42:20,436 Speaker 1: thinking of the person who I saw openly clipping their 644 00:42:20,516 --> 00:42:24,556 Speaker 1: nails on a openly clipping their nails. I was like, 645 00:42:24,636 --> 00:42:28,596 Speaker 1: are we on the L train? What are we doing? 646 00:42:29,396 --> 00:42:32,556 Speaker 1: I mean, that really happened. That sound is like the 647 00:42:32,716 --> 00:42:36,116 Speaker 1: opposite of a meditation app is not snip, It's like 648 00:42:36,596 --> 00:42:41,916 Speaker 1: the opposite of the clip of a t But shoes, 649 00:42:42,076 --> 00:42:45,116 Speaker 1: if you have socks, okay, if you have socks, okay, 650 00:42:45,316 --> 00:42:48,596 Speaker 1: not ideal, but permitted. I have a question. Okay, you're 651 00:42:48,636 --> 00:42:51,676 Speaker 1: on a plane, you arrive at your destination, you enter 652 00:42:51,756 --> 00:42:54,356 Speaker 1: your wherever you are, your hotel, room, your house, whatever 653 00:42:54,396 --> 00:42:57,276 Speaker 1: it is. How much time expires between walking through the 654 00:42:57,356 --> 00:43:00,756 Speaker 1: door and silkwood showering and getting out of what you 655 00:43:00,796 --> 00:43:07,596 Speaker 1: were wearing. Oh that's interesting. I mean, I'm a pretty 656 00:43:08,196 --> 00:43:11,796 Speaker 1: clean dude, but I don't I don't rush into the 657 00:43:11,836 --> 00:43:14,716 Speaker 1: shower like rapped with tears thinking about what just went 658 00:43:14,796 --> 00:43:18,516 Speaker 1: down in the airplane. Really yeah, I think I'm more 659 00:43:18,596 --> 00:43:24,396 Speaker 1: likely or like sit on other things in the place 660 00:43:24,476 --> 00:43:26,276 Speaker 1: you're staying and in the clothes you were just on. 661 00:43:26,756 --> 00:43:29,116 Speaker 1: Oh plane. When I enter a hotel room, I take 662 00:43:29,196 --> 00:43:32,276 Speaker 1: off the top comforter and pillows. I mean, come on, 663 00:43:32,796 --> 00:43:37,356 Speaker 1: that's table stakes. Will you remove the pillows? The top 664 00:43:37,436 --> 00:43:44,916 Speaker 1: pillows like, oh yeah, exactly next to the comforter. Let 665 00:43:45,036 --> 00:43:47,516 Speaker 1: time go by. I'd let time go by, sure. Like 666 00:43:47,636 --> 00:43:50,676 Speaker 1: my first concern is like, can I just get a drink? 667 00:43:50,756 --> 00:43:52,276 Speaker 1: Can I just like get like I want to get 668 00:43:52,316 --> 00:43:54,036 Speaker 1: it back into life. I want to be around a friend, 669 00:43:54,236 --> 00:43:56,116 Speaker 1: like I want to like be in the world again 670 00:43:56,516 --> 00:44:00,396 Speaker 1: mentally mental high teen is my my high priority. Okay, okay, okay, 671 00:44:00,716 --> 00:44:03,676 Speaker 1: this is mightave of a couple of things. I'm obsessed 672 00:44:03,716 --> 00:44:06,916 Speaker 1: with this question and many guests of answer is on 673 00:44:07,076 --> 00:44:12,196 Speaker 1: the airplane, what do you wear? Comfort or something else? 674 00:44:12,916 --> 00:44:15,156 Speaker 1: What is your what is your strategy for the airplane? 675 00:44:15,876 --> 00:44:22,156 Speaker 1: I mean obs comfort, but within limits. I mean, here's 676 00:44:22,196 --> 00:44:26,316 Speaker 1: like a thinker for the ladies, Like the most comfy 677 00:44:26,436 --> 00:44:29,876 Speaker 1: thing is a jumpsuit, Like you're kind of in a 678 00:44:29,996 --> 00:44:34,076 Speaker 1: onesie and it's very comfortable. However, if you're in a 679 00:44:34,396 --> 00:44:37,396 Speaker 1: jumpsuit when you go to that bathroom you're doing you're 680 00:44:37,636 --> 00:44:41,276 Speaker 1: you're in a tits out pee, which just doesn't feel great, 681 00:44:41,436 --> 00:44:44,316 Speaker 1: Like you really are vulnerable. You're vulnerable and that tits 682 00:44:44,356 --> 00:44:46,236 Speaker 1: out people. But you're trading that off for being in 683 00:44:46,356 --> 00:44:49,676 Speaker 1: like your comfious outfit. So it's tough. But then when 684 00:44:49,716 --> 00:44:56,236 Speaker 1: you burn upon arrival, I'm not wearing it again. No, no, 685 00:44:56,396 --> 00:44:58,556 Speaker 1: I mean, I can't be clear. I'm not repeating the 686 00:44:58,676 --> 00:45:01,356 Speaker 1: clothes that touch the seat of the plane. Wow, I 687 00:45:01,836 --> 00:45:05,356 Speaker 1: believe it's only in like a good sports cut. Are 688 00:45:05,436 --> 00:45:08,196 Speaker 1: you dressing up for air travel like we're in the sixties? 689 00:45:08,476 --> 00:45:11,996 Speaker 1: A little bit? A little bit because it's so dehumanizing 690 00:45:12,476 --> 00:45:15,676 Speaker 1: to go through TSA and to wait for five hours 691 00:45:15,836 --> 00:45:18,476 Speaker 1: to get um, you know, a bagel with egg, salad 692 00:45:18,556 --> 00:45:22,276 Speaker 1: and iceberg lettuce or whatever for twenty dollars that I 693 00:45:22,396 --> 00:45:24,596 Speaker 1: feel like looking kind of like dialed in makes me 694 00:45:24,716 --> 00:45:27,436 Speaker 1: feel calmer, you know what. I want to address what 695 00:45:27,476 --> 00:45:30,116 Speaker 1: you're saying, because it's very valid. I when I say 696 00:45:30,116 --> 00:45:32,796 Speaker 1: I'm addressing for comfort, I'm not doing like, you know, 697 00:45:33,356 --> 00:45:38,556 Speaker 1: like a juicy sweatsuit where you're just like, fuck you everyone. Yeah, 698 00:45:38,636 --> 00:45:43,476 Speaker 1: I'm I'm clipping my nails where I want to. Yeah, 699 00:45:43,556 --> 00:45:46,876 Speaker 1: I don't want to look like I've fully given up. Yeah, 700 00:45:47,516 --> 00:45:49,556 Speaker 1: I think, yeah, that's the line. But but but on 701 00:45:49,676 --> 00:45:52,276 Speaker 1: the blazer, on the sports coade, Yeah, I do feel 702 00:45:52,276 --> 00:45:54,316 Speaker 1: like it has protective powers, Like I don't care if 703 00:45:54,356 --> 00:45:56,916 Speaker 1: it wrinkles, like I beat it to hell. I use 704 00:45:57,036 --> 00:45:59,516 Speaker 1: the pockets. I throw my passport in it, and for me, 705 00:45:59,676 --> 00:46:01,596 Speaker 1: that feels a little bit like armor. And then when 706 00:46:01,636 --> 00:46:03,796 Speaker 1: I am at the hotel or if I go out 707 00:46:03,836 --> 00:46:06,116 Speaker 1: to dinner afterwards, I'll like take it off and I 708 00:46:06,236 --> 00:46:07,796 Speaker 1: feel like it kind of like that's kind of what 709 00:46:07,916 --> 00:46:12,836 Speaker 1: protects my situation. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, inner pocket looks so 710 00:46:12,956 --> 00:46:16,556 Speaker 1: great with the passport in it. People people love it. Yeah, 711 00:46:18,036 --> 00:46:20,436 Speaker 1: that is nice. A man with a sports coat with 712 00:46:20,516 --> 00:46:24,356 Speaker 1: that inner past that is kind of a hot moment. Yeah. Yeah, 713 00:46:24,676 --> 00:46:28,316 Speaker 1: that's a sophisticated man. I have a jacket that I 714 00:46:28,436 --> 00:46:33,196 Speaker 1: bought as my production jacket. It has six pockets on 715 00:46:33,276 --> 00:46:36,836 Speaker 1: this jacket. It's like a utility and I bought it 716 00:46:36,956 --> 00:46:39,236 Speaker 1: for set because it was like a headset pocket, a 717 00:46:39,356 --> 00:46:43,396 Speaker 1: purel pocket, your mask pocket, your phone pocket, but for 718 00:46:43,596 --> 00:46:46,116 Speaker 1: travel it's equally. It's also just like all this shit, 719 00:46:46,236 --> 00:46:49,996 Speaker 1: I've got completely so many pockets. Now again, this is 720 00:46:50,036 --> 00:46:52,916 Speaker 1: why Robert Altman War One, and this is why Romancing 721 00:46:52,956 --> 00:46:55,356 Speaker 1: the Stone Michael Douglas War One. Like all those pockets 722 00:46:55,636 --> 00:46:58,836 Speaker 1: needed in both those scenarios. But you have your hand sandy, 723 00:46:59,156 --> 00:47:02,836 Speaker 1: you have your passport, your sandy. Yeah. And if you're 724 00:47:02,876 --> 00:47:05,796 Speaker 1: in one of those uncomfortable situations where sometimes I put 725 00:47:05,836 --> 00:47:07,516 Speaker 1: myself in where I'm like, I just jump in the 726 00:47:07,596 --> 00:47:09,916 Speaker 1: seat because I feel like I don't know when I'm 727 00:47:09,956 --> 00:47:13,156 Speaker 1: when I'm getting into the plane itself, a lot of anxiety, 728 00:47:13,196 --> 00:47:14,836 Speaker 1: a lot of people angry, a lot of people throw 729 00:47:14,916 --> 00:47:17,036 Speaker 1: in suitcases up tough. So I just want to get 730 00:47:17,076 --> 00:47:18,756 Speaker 1: in there. I like have knowing that if I just 731 00:47:18,876 --> 00:47:20,956 Speaker 1: have to hop in the seat, it's all in my pockets. 732 00:47:21,036 --> 00:47:23,636 Speaker 1: I'm all good, It's all in your pockets. So is 733 00:47:23,716 --> 00:47:26,676 Speaker 1: there a better feeling in this world than that moment 734 00:47:26,756 --> 00:47:29,116 Speaker 1: where you've made it to your seat and you butt 735 00:47:29,236 --> 00:47:33,476 Speaker 1: down and you bag up and you're just like, I'm 736 00:47:33,516 --> 00:47:36,196 Speaker 1: in the seat. There is there should be a German 737 00:47:36,676 --> 00:47:40,636 Speaker 1: better feeling when my doors close and there's no one 738 00:47:40,676 --> 00:47:47,596 Speaker 1: sitting next to suspense delicious sense and then you wide 739 00:47:47,716 --> 00:47:50,276 Speaker 1: until take off so no one will get any ideas, 740 00:47:50,396 --> 00:47:52,596 Speaker 1: and then you're an easy straight after that. Yeah, you 741 00:47:52,676 --> 00:47:54,756 Speaker 1: gotta wait till that take off to you, that's true. Yeah, 742 00:47:54,796 --> 00:47:57,756 Speaker 1: that's a really good feeling too. Um. Jesse, thank you 743 00:47:57,876 --> 00:48:00,836 Speaker 1: so much for coming by and sharing your travel secrets. 744 00:48:01,756 --> 00:48:10,076 Speaker 1: Thank you. That was Jesse Klein. The latest book is 745 00:48:10,116 --> 00:48:13,876 Speaker 1: called I'll Show Myself Out, essays on midlife and motherhood. 746 00:48:14,516 --> 00:48:17,316 Speaker 1: It's kind of like Eat, Pray Love, but she's married, 747 00:48:17,516 --> 00:48:21,996 Speaker 1: has children and doesn't really go anywhere. So that's it 748 00:48:22,156 --> 00:48:24,116 Speaker 1: for this edition of Not Lost Chat. If you have 749 00:48:24,196 --> 00:48:26,876 Speaker 1: travel questions that you went answered in a future episode, 750 00:48:27,396 --> 00:48:29,716 Speaker 1: you can email them to me at not Lost at 751 00:48:29,756 --> 00:48:33,156 Speaker 1: Pushkin dot fm or ping me at b F Newnham 752 00:48:33,236 --> 00:48:36,756 Speaker 1: on Twitter. Please send them along. Not Lost Chat is 753 00:48:36,756 --> 00:48:39,676 Speaker 1: produced by Jordan Belly, who flew from the Bahamas to 754 00:48:39,876 --> 00:48:42,316 Speaker 1: La to be able to help assemble this episode. I 755 00:48:42,396 --> 00:48:46,076 Speaker 1: hope Jordan allows me into the Platinum Club Centurion Lounge 756 00:48:46,436 --> 00:48:49,876 Speaker 1: if we ever traveled together. The show is written and 757 00:48:49,996 --> 00:48:54,236 Speaker 1: hosted by me Brendan Francis Nunham. True story. I recently 758 00:48:54,316 --> 00:48:57,436 Speaker 1: rented an Airbnb in Montreal for the holiday break, but 759 00:48:57,836 --> 00:49:01,276 Speaker 1: I was too busy to make the trip didn't cancel 760 00:49:01,316 --> 00:49:04,076 Speaker 1: in time, so I had to pain full. But I 761 00:49:04,236 --> 00:49:06,396 Speaker 1: did get a good review from the host. She said 762 00:49:06,876 --> 00:49:09,396 Speaker 1: I left the house in good shape, so there you go. 763 00:49:10,236 --> 00:49:13,396 Speaker 1: Someone who is much better at making plans and keeping 764 00:49:13,436 --> 00:49:16,236 Speaker 1: them is Laura Morgan, who helps book our show. This 765 00:49:16,396 --> 00:49:19,556 Speaker 1: episode was edited by Sarah Nix with assistance from the 766 00:49:19,716 --> 00:49:23,156 Speaker 1: Chillist managing producer in the game, Jacob Smith. Our mix 767 00:49:23,236 --> 00:49:27,036 Speaker 1: engineer who also provides additional production support is Sarah Brugere 768 00:49:27,876 --> 00:49:31,316 Speaker 1: Not Lost is a co production of Pushkin Industries, Topic 769 00:49:31,396 --> 00:49:36,076 Speaker 1: Studios and iHeartMedia, who was developed at Topic Studios and Yes. 770 00:49:36,356 --> 00:49:40,156 Speaker 1: This show has some executive producers including me Brendan Francis Newnham, 771 00:49:40,396 --> 00:49:44,396 Speaker 1: Christy Kressman, Maria Zuckerman, Lisa Langang and La Tom Mullott. 772 00:49:45,156 --> 00:49:47,476 Speaker 1: As always, if you dig what you here, please tell 773 00:49:47,516 --> 00:49:49,956 Speaker 1: a friend, tell the seat mate on your airplane if 774 00:49:50,036 --> 00:49:52,036 Speaker 1: they look like they want to talk with you. You 775 00:49:52,116 --> 00:49:54,596 Speaker 1: can also make a comment an Apple podcast, spread the word. 776 00:49:54,796 --> 00:49:58,516 Speaker 1: It's all really appreciated. And if your inbox is lonely 777 00:49:58,756 --> 00:50:01,356 Speaker 1: and whose isn't, you can sign up for the Pushkin 778 00:50:01,436 --> 00:50:05,796 Speaker 1: newsletter at Pushkin dot Fm, slash newsletter, and if you 779 00:50:05,836 --> 00:50:07,876 Speaker 1: want to listen to back episodes of Not Lost or 780 00:50:08,076 --> 00:50:10,596 Speaker 1: other Pushkin podcast us, then there's some great ones, story 781 00:50:10,636 --> 00:50:13,396 Speaker 1: of the week, slight change of plans. You can listen 782 00:50:13,436 --> 00:50:16,716 Speaker 1: and find them on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast or 783 00:50:17,476 --> 00:50:20,756 Speaker 1: wherever you listen to your podcast. That is it for 784 00:50:20,876 --> 00:50:24,156 Speaker 1: this episode. Thank you everybody, Bamboyage