Speaker 1: Welcome to Inside the Studio presented by I Heart Radio.
Speaker 1: I'm your host Joe Leady. Okay, So, if anybody is
Speaker 1: the ultimate guest for the home edition of the show,
Speaker 1: which is all about letting you know how the pandemic
Speaker 1: has impacted the lives of artists and how it's affecting
Speaker 1: the way they make music, it has got to be Phineas.
Speaker 1: After all, he and his sister Billie Eilish made her
Speaker 1: album When We All Fall Asleep, Where Do We Go
Speaker 1: literally in his bedroom, and that is one of the
Speaker 1: most important and most successful albums of like the last
Speaker 1: ten years. But it's not just the whole idea of
Speaker 1: staying at home and staying creative that Phineas has a
Speaker 1: lot to tell us about right now. His recent single
Speaker 1: what They'll Say About Us is a real reflection of
Speaker 1: this moment. During racial justice protests marches in Los Angeles
Speaker 1: this summer, he imagined himself explaining what was going on
Speaker 1: to someone laying in a hospital bed fighting COVID. As
Speaker 1: he tells our quarantine correspondent Jordan Runtog, he sees optimism
Speaker 1: as being aware of the bad stuff that's happening around
Speaker 1: you and making a choice to stay positive, and Phineus
Speaker 1: also has a lot to say about taking a Sudoku
Speaker 1: approach to writing a James Bond theme, working on Billy's
Speaker 1: second album, and working on his own. So if you
Speaker 1: enjoy this episode, be sure to check out the I
Speaker 1: Heart Radio podcast that Jordan's hosts, which is called Rivals
Speaker 1: Music's Greatest Feuds and which is available wherever you get
Speaker 1: your podcasts. Hello everyone, my name is Jordan Runtalg but
Speaker 1: enough about me. My guest today has won multiple Grammys,
Speaker 1: co written the Bond theme, and acted on a hit
Speaker 1: TV show, and he did it all before turning twenty three.
Speaker 1: You probably know him for his collaborations with his sister
Speaker 1: Billie Eilish. He's also overseen hits for JP Sacks, Ash,
Speaker 1: Selena Gomez, Toblow, and Halsey, to name but a few.
Speaker 1: Last fall, he dropped a solo EP, Blood Harmony, and
Speaker 1: now he has a new single called what They'll Say
Speaker 1: About Us. The song is his way of processing the
Speaker 1: tumult of a year unlike any other. I'm so happy
Speaker 1: to welcome Phineas. Phineas, how are you? I'm good? It's
Speaker 1: it's been raining ash in Los Angeles I don't know
Speaker 1: where where you're calling me from, but it's been just
Speaker 1: it looks like your Blood Harmony cover. Really I wish
Speaker 1: it was that pretty. It's it's just this kind of
Speaker 1: smoky gray, very depressing and sort of alarming. But like
Speaker 1: we've been indoors, a lot of people have been comparing
Speaker 1: the weather to like Blade Runner, like all the orange
Speaker 1: skies and Blade Runner, and my girlfriend was like, I
Speaker 1: don't think i've ever seen later. Well, then let's watch
Speaker 1: Blade Runner. So we watched we like on Friday, we
Speaker 1: had nothing to do and we just marathon. Like both
Speaker 1: Blade Runner movies, the first one and then the one
Speaker 1: that came out. They're so good. They are so good.
Speaker 1: But it definitely I can imagine like living in it
Speaker 1: right now probably like inhibitor ability to enjoy them to
Speaker 1: some extent. You're like, it's too bad. The future isn't
Speaker 1: that cool Like we have like we have like all
Speaker 1: the pollution and like not any flying cars. Somebody dropped
Speaker 1: the ball on that. I know the first Blade Runner
Speaker 1: takes place in and they're like flying around and uh,
Speaker 1: we're not rocking that yet, so like back to the
Speaker 1: future to also let us down when back to the
Speaker 1: future too took place in or something. Yeah, we blew it.
Speaker 1: I know, man, It's actually kind of sweet because it
Speaker 1: just means that people were very optimistic. Yeah, that would
Speaker 1: be like if we were like, what would the example
Speaker 1: be if we were like, yeah, we will have stopped
Speaker 1: climate change by two thousand and twenty two, Like, I
Speaker 1: wish we were that proficiently. That's kind of where I
Speaker 1: want to start with you. I mean, this year must
Speaker 1: be so insane for you for so many reason. I
Speaker 1: mean you go from sweeping the Grammy's performing at the
Speaker 1: Oscars to like six weeks later being confined to your home.
Speaker 1: I mean, what was what was that adjustment? Like it
Speaker 1: was like, you know, whip lash. It was super weird.
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, on one hand, I think, like,
Speaker 1: I feel very privileged to have had a very enjoyable
Speaker 1: first two months of the year before everything kind of
Speaker 1: like collapsed in on itself. The lucky thing is that
Speaker 1: in if I'm lucky enough to live this long twenty
Speaker 1: years from now, I will be like looking back at
Speaker 1: two thousand and I'll be like, yeah, that was a
Speaker 1: weird period. But obviously, like these these seminal moments in
Speaker 1: my life also took place that year, And aren't I lucky?
Speaker 1: I don't think I'll remember only the terrible things, which
Speaker 1: obviously there are so many terrible things to remember. So yeah,
Speaker 1: I feel very lucky. And uh and you know what,
Speaker 1: like on another very selfish level, like at least we
Speaker 1: had been touring the world for you know, three years
Speaker 1: straight when everything came to a halt. I think if
Speaker 1: we were only just starting it would be very devastating.
Speaker 1: At least we know what it's like and we what
Speaker 1: we have to look forward to in you know, a
Speaker 1: year or so time, when you know, maybe it's safe
Speaker 1: to go play Arenas again. But yeah, I mean it's
Speaker 1: it sucks. I mean we you know, we love touring.
Speaker 1: We love traveling. It's it's one of our favorite things
Speaker 1: in the world. So it's pretty torturous to not get
Speaker 1: to do that with most of the people have in
Speaker 1: the show. I ask, you know, well, you're in lockdown.
Speaker 1: How's how's working from home been like affected your creative process?
Speaker 1: It must be so different, But I imagine for you
Speaker 1: it's probably not the biggest change in the world. No,
Speaker 1: it's been I mean, like, to be totally honest, it's
Speaker 1: been like in terms of like making Billy's second album
Speaker 1: making my first album. It's been awesome, you know, Like
Speaker 1: I know that's kind of crazy to say, but like
Speaker 1: there's no way we'd be writing and recording as much
Speaker 1: this year otherwise. So I'm trying to look at it
Speaker 1: like I'm kind of trying to look at it like
Speaker 1: we have this thing that no artist ever gets. Basically,
Speaker 1: here's the deal. Every artist makes the first album, and
Speaker 1: then if it's successful, they tour it into oblivion, and
Speaker 1: then there's somehow it's affected to like have made album
Speaker 1: two in that time, which is just kind of crazy.
Speaker 1: I mean, our version of that was that we made
Speaker 1: the James Bond song on tour. But it's like we
Speaker 1: have this crazy luxury of like having this amount of
Speaker 1: time off after the first album that I think almost
Speaker 1: no artist gets anymore. So I'm kind of like I'm
Speaker 1: playing like mind games with myself where I'm like, as
Speaker 1: soon as there is a vaccine and everything can start
Speaker 1: up again, like you're you're never going to get a
Speaker 1: break ever again, because everyone's going to be trying to
Speaker 1: make up for two years within the span of like
Speaker 1: six months. So I'm kind of like pretending this is
Speaker 1: like some short term forced hiatus or something where we're
Speaker 1: just like, we have to make this next record, and
Speaker 1: I'm really enjoying making it. I'm loving all the songs
Speaker 1: we're writing, and it's really fun. So you feeling productive.
Speaker 1: That's good. And I feel like I know people on
Speaker 1: both sides of that, they're there like I'm just really
Speaker 1: on it, or it's like I can barely get out
Speaker 1: of bed. Please don't make me do an entirely. It's
Speaker 1: it's it's day by day. I should remind you that.
Speaker 1: Earlier in this call, I admitted to watching both played
Speaker 1: in the movie on Friday, and I also that same
Speaker 1: day I watched like an hour and a half behind
Speaker 1: the scenes of the Social Network, and also I watched
Speaker 1: an episode of The Boys. So it was like, you know,
Speaker 1: there there are days where I am super prolific, and
Speaker 1: then there are days where I watched like three movies
Speaker 1: You Gotta, You Gotta, you Know, Prime, The Pump, I Guess, EBB,
Speaker 1: and Flow. Yeah, Well, tell me about your new song.
Speaker 1: What they'll say about us? It seems you know, I
Speaker 1: got a lot of hope in that song, which is
Speaker 1: not something we we get a lot of this year.
Speaker 1: You know, Um, that's definitely what I was aiming for.
Speaker 1: I think, I think, I mean, there are other songs
Speaker 1: that may never see the light of day that I
Speaker 1: wrote during this that are just dirges. They're just like bleak,
Speaker 1: this sucks, you know, that's kind of the m O.
Speaker 1: And I think the reason I felt so proud of
Speaker 1: this song was I I wrote it during the Black
Speaker 1: Lives Matter protests in June, and I was like going
Speaker 1: to them, and it was like it was like the
Speaker 1: only thing that I could justify going out and doing.
Speaker 1: Like I still haven't been out to like eat at
Speaker 1: a restaurant or anything. It just seems too too irresponsible.
Speaker 1: I see my family, my parents are in their sixties whatever.
Speaker 1: But I was like, you know what, I have to
Speaker 1: go to these protests and and if if that jeopardizes
Speaker 1: my health, I'll, you know, I'll quarantine for two weeks whatever,
Speaker 1: I'll take the hit because these protests are important, and
Speaker 1: whenever I go to protests, I feel really hopeful. Gone
Speaker 1: to marches my whole life. In l A. We've marched
Speaker 1: against the Iraq War, and we went to the Women's
Speaker 1: March in the March for our Lives in Boston, and
Speaker 1: the marches make me feel really good because you're like
Speaker 1: marching down the street with all these people who agree
Speaker 1: with you. And I think the Internet at its best
Speaker 1: is like this empathy machine where we see people, you know, suffering,
Speaker 1: and we feel bad for them even though we don't
Speaker 1: know them. And it's worse, it's this like divisive division
Speaker 1: where we're like just seeing everybody that disagrees with us
Speaker 1: about everything, and it's you're just like, oh my god,
Speaker 1: how do I disagree so fundamentally with this person that
Speaker 1: otherwise isn't that different than I am. We grew up
Speaker 1: in the same place, you know. It's kind of crazy.
Speaker 1: So anyway, protests make me feel really good. And I
Speaker 1: had come home and I sort of started this thing,
Speaker 1: this this kind of hopeful pace. But at the same time,
Speaker 1: I was following Amanda Clutz, who's the wife of Nick Cordero,
Speaker 1: who at the time was dying of COVID in the
Speaker 1: hospital or dying of you know whatever they call it,
Speaker 1: complications due to COVID, where his lungs had been obliterated
Speaker 1: by the virus, And so I was like singing kind
Speaker 1: of in the vein of like maybe maybe he's gonna
Speaker 1: be okay, and like, wouldn't that be great? And if
Speaker 1: you were the loved one of a person who was
Speaker 1: lying in a hospital bed and you were kind of
Speaker 1: explaining all the protests and everything, you know what you
Speaker 1: might say, And so that was kind of the nut
Speaker 1: of that song, and then everything beyond that was was
Speaker 1: just sort of like trying to be as self aware
Speaker 1: of it as possible. I find I find some songs
Speaker 1: that are like optimistic sort of hard to take. So
Speaker 1: there's like a line in the second verse that's like
Speaker 1: if I say a cliche because I mean it, and
Speaker 1: I think that's like the whole kind of nature of
Speaker 1: a song like that is like you are saying this
Speaker 1: thing that might seem a little bit foolhardy or a
Speaker 1: little bit like blind, but it's like I think, I
Speaker 1: think to be optimistic is to be aware of negative
Speaker 1: things that are happening and to be like, you know what,
Speaker 1: I'm still gonna be hopeful and I'm still gonna like
Speaker 1: root for us. I have not yet resorted to nihilism,
Speaker 1: which is the next the next state. Everyone treats twenty
Speaker 1: like it's this bad year I'm one is the nihilist
Speaker 1: year that's like the year where we're all just like,
Speaker 1: never mind, it's never gonna go away, And you performed
Speaker 1: that the d n C in August. I mean that
Speaker 1: must be an incredible thing to to lend your voice to,
Speaker 1: you know, it was. We saw it as a good
Speaker 1: opportunity to throw weight. You know. I think this is
Speaker 1: a really important election, and I think anybody who doesn't
Speaker 1: think this is an important election is is privileged to
Speaker 1: not paying much attention. And we were just like, we'd
Speaker 1: love to make whatever small amount of difference we can
Speaker 1: try to make would be useful. I think we were
Speaker 1: just like the option of like looking back at this
Speaker 1: period and having done nothing is like very grim to me.
Speaker 1: So how do you balance with all this going and
Speaker 1: being so aware what's going on in the world. How
Speaker 1: do you how do you find a good work life
Speaker 1: balance in the midst of all that. I know that
Speaker 1: sounds like a very sort of trite question, but I
Speaker 1: think it's something a lot of people are dealing it.
Speaker 1: It's super hard. I've like put those like app limits
Speaker 1: on my phone of like the Instagram, Twitter, social media,
Speaker 1: like screen time limits where your phone just kind of
Speaker 1: like shuts you out, and I that's a struggle, you know,
Speaker 1: I think I think it's really challenging. The thing that
Speaker 1: I try to remind myself is that, in my specific case,
Speaker 1: my work is the thing that brings me fulfillment, right,
Speaker 1: writing songs, producing them, that makes me feel really good
Speaker 1: looking at the news cycle. Although I think it is important,
Speaker 1: it doesn't make me feel good at all. My joke,
Speaker 1: and I haven't even tweeted this, but like, you know
Speaker 1: how on Twitter there's like the categories in the app
Speaker 1: of like COVID related sports entertainment, right, so I don't
Speaker 1: know if you've checked, maybe yours is different. But the
Speaker 1: fun tab on Twitter, there's like a fun section. It
Speaker 1: has one thing right now, and it's like and it's
Speaker 1: not even that fun. The thing is like, let me
Speaker 1: pull it up, it's like bizarre. You're just like, this
Speaker 1: isn't even fun here. I'm opening it really quick. Okay,
Speaker 1: So the fun tab, it's like three three things and
Speaker 1: one of them is just imagine explaining these things from
Speaker 1: two people living in nineteen and I'm like, that's not fun.
Speaker 1: That's not fun. It's still dark anyway. So I just
Speaker 1: try to get off the apps as much as I
Speaker 1: can because the stuff that brings me joy is like
Speaker 1: going on walks with my friends and hanging out with
Speaker 1: my girlfriend and the stuff I can do safely that
Speaker 1: feels very like connected social media, even though it's important,
Speaker 1: it's like, does not make me feel very good. I
Speaker 1: don't think I know anyone who makes them feel really good.
Speaker 1: I know. I think the issue is that it is
Speaker 1: a little bit like a nicotine addiction, where it gives
Speaker 1: you some dope amine. Like you go on, you see
Speaker 1: some likes, you see some nice comments, and so you're
Speaker 1: like wow, like I'm I am loved and valued, and
Speaker 1: then it's like you just spiral off into like looking
Speaker 1: at terrible articles about the whole West Coast burning down.
Speaker 1: So it's it's a tricky balance, right, you don't want
Speaker 1: to turn a blind diet of problems, but you also
Speaker 1: don't want to ruin your own life by observing it's
Speaker 1: not actually constructive to look at something negative happening in
Speaker 1: the world on your Twitter unless you're then going to
Speaker 1: like do something about it, Right, I try to look
Speaker 1: at it that way. It's like, all right, I can
Speaker 1: I can indulge in this weird habit of like looking
Speaker 1: at terrible news as long as I then plan on
Speaker 1: instilling some form of change. Well, you're working on so
Speaker 1: many things right now. Does what they'll say about us
Speaker 1: mean that there's a full length LP on the way
Speaker 1: coming from you soon. There's definitely it's on the way.
Speaker 1: I mean it's I'm I'm working on it all the time.
Speaker 1: It was sort of like, um, if I had to answer,
Speaker 1: I would imagine that that song will play a role
Speaker 1: in the album. I don't think the album is far
Speaker 1: enough away that it would not fit on the album.
Speaker 1: I think it will be there. But I didn't want
Speaker 1: to like announce a record or release date with that
Speaker 1: song because I felt like I wanted to just let
Speaker 1: that song exist because I really believe in that song,
Speaker 1: and I think, like I think sometimes when you announce
Speaker 1: a single with a record, it's like people are just like,
Speaker 1: oh my god, like there's a record coming. And also
Speaker 1: I'm not actually done with a record. I'm like working
Speaker 1: on the songs all the time, but have lots of
Speaker 1: work to do. I've always been so fascinated by the
Speaker 1: unusual sounds in your records, you know, like a lit
Speaker 1: match is a snare, dentist rill, or like an Australian Crosswalk, Beep,
Speaker 1: and bad Guy. What is your process for incorporating those?
Speaker 1: Do you have like an arsenal of cool sounds and
Speaker 1: tape loops that you draw from, or do you hear
Speaker 1: a sound in your head that you know you want
Speaker 1: and you just start experimenting with what's around you. Totally both.
Speaker 1: It just depends on the situation. I'm always looking for inspiration, right,
Speaker 1: I think one of the issues with you know, the
Speaker 1: more music you make is the more things you think
Speaker 1: you've covered, And anything that reinspires me is really exciting.
Speaker 1: You know. It's like this is a weird example, but
Speaker 1: like so so watch the sound of like the song
Speaker 1: of the match Sticks. Like that song is like a
Speaker 1: C chord and an F chord and a minor chord
Speaker 1: and an F chord, and like those are chords that
Speaker 1: like I have written so many songs with those chords
Speaker 1: that they are they do not carry inspiration for me anymore.
Speaker 1: And you chuck the match sticks in there, and it's
Speaker 1: very cool and inspiring to me, and I think that's like,
Speaker 1: That's what I'm always going for. It's just like something
Speaker 1: to reinspire. Have you ever heard of Pink Floyd's Household
Speaker 1: Objects project. Yeah, I thought that was a really cool project.
Speaker 1: I haven't done it, but I thought it was like
Speaker 1: really smart. Yeah, it's like because I think that was
Speaker 1: followed Dark Side of the Moon too, so it's almost
Speaker 1: like a similar position where Okay, we we did what
Speaker 1: we set out to do a thousand times over, beyond
Speaker 1: the wildest dreams and then finding inspiration in the in
Speaker 1: the every day. It's fascinating. I was joking with my
Speaker 1: dad because I'm I'm really proud of the second album
Speaker 1: that we're working on with Billy Um And I was
Speaker 1: talking to my dad and I was like, but I'm like,
Speaker 1: we're supposed to do this every time, Like are we
Speaker 1: supposed to make like a really good album, like over
Speaker 1: and over? Like it's so hard. But you know, I
Speaker 1: think that's it's about reinspiring yourself and it's about growing
Speaker 1: as a person. Like it's a funny thing that people
Speaker 1: level this criticism of like my favorite artists have changed,
Speaker 1: because it's like, what the what on earth could they
Speaker 1: expect you to do as an artist other than change?
Speaker 1: That's I mean, that's it's such a funny criticism that
Speaker 1: people Yeah, I don't really understand that. I I mean listen
Speaker 1: to every Beatles album post nineteen sixty four, and it
Speaker 1: sounds completely different than the one before it. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: know they're so different. I do understand that if you
Speaker 1: are a fan of a record, that doesn't mean that
Speaker 1: you're going to be a fan of someone else's record
Speaker 1: if it's a very different record. But it's like that's
Speaker 1: how music is supposed to work, Like you kind of
Speaker 1: have to make music for yourself and then whoever likes
Speaker 1: it will like it. God, if I were always trying
Speaker 1: to cater to like one listener, like, I wouldn't have
Speaker 1: made like half the songs I'm proud of because I
Speaker 1: would have just been like second guessing them, been like,
Speaker 1: oh my god, they're not gonna like this. So I
Speaker 1: think it's a it's a double edged sword because obviously
Speaker 1: we're all as artists, like very indebted to whoever listens
Speaker 1: to our music, and that's why we have a career.
Speaker 1: But it's also like I think of this in terms
Speaker 1: of like food in a certain way. If I only
Speaker 1: ever ate stuff, I already like I'd never try anything
Speaker 1: new that's great, and it's like I feel like that's
Speaker 1: that's the best. And you go to a new restaurant
Speaker 1: and you try something, You're like, I have no idea
Speaker 1: how that's going to be, and you try, like, oh
Speaker 1: my god, it's amazing. And and I think that's like
Speaker 1: what I always aimed to do as a musician, is
Speaker 1: like give someone something they didn't even know they wanted.
Speaker 1: And I assume being in your position now, having one,
Speaker 1: you know, all the Grammys, you have all sorts of
Speaker 1: resources open to you that you might not have before.
Speaker 1: I mean, you could have a wall of melotrons or
Speaker 1: a string section or you know, whatever you want. Do
Speaker 1: you have any desire to vastly expand your sonic paletin anyway?
Speaker 1: Or did you feel like you have everything you need
Speaker 1: with your laptop and you know, logic tools or whatever.
Speaker 1: So I spent a considerable amount of money this year
Speaker 1: on like instruments and microphones that I couldn't afford before.
Speaker 1: And I think you know what I would say to
Speaker 1: like any young listener who's like I, I record my
Speaker 1: own vocals on a microphone called a Chandler Red now,
Speaker 1: which I really like. And my my buddy yesterday was like,
Speaker 1: I gotta get a new microphone. I was like, you
Speaker 1: should get a Chandler Red and he was like, I
Speaker 1: was thinking get in the TLM one O three and
Speaker 1: I was like, well, that's that. Mike's fine, and he
Speaker 1: was like, didn't you record all of Billy's album on
Speaker 1: that mike? And I was like yeah. I was like,
Speaker 1: it's a great mike. I was like, I'm just telling
Speaker 1: the other one's even better. And he was like, right,
Speaker 1: but it doesn't matter, and I was like, no, it's absolute,
Speaker 1: really doesn't matter. It's just it's a very selfish purchase, right,
Speaker 1: It's like I enjoy it. But yes, in the last
Speaker 1: several months, I've I've acquired really sort of more mostly
Speaker 1: before COVID, but um, I've acquired like some really nice
Speaker 1: mix and some cool vintage sense and stuff and like,
Speaker 1: to be honest, I don't know how to feel about this,
Speaker 1: but I still like largely am using like built in
Speaker 1: software on my computer because it's fast and I'm usually
Speaker 1: looking for speed. But it is really fun, and again,
Speaker 1: it's like it's the inspiration that I'm looking for. I'm
Speaker 1: not like a super like analog verse digital like convert.
Speaker 1: I think digital sounds pretty great. I have a couple
Speaker 1: of sins. I have this thing called an ace tone.
Speaker 1: You know, I play that and it inspires me a lot.
Speaker 1: And you know, in making a second album and then
Speaker 1: making my own first album, like I'm I love being
Speaker 1: reinspired by things, um and approaching things in a different way.
Speaker 1: So that's kind of like that would be my like
Speaker 1: encouragement to people in terms of like what they invest
Speaker 1: money on and with years, you know, like wait until
Speaker 1: you're uninspired by something and then and then get something
Speaker 1: new to reinspire you and re excite you. That would
Speaker 1: be my advice. Are you superstitious at all? Do you
Speaker 1: go back to the bedroom at your parents house to
Speaker 1: do the vocals? Just think at the sound of that room.
Speaker 1: I am. I am not at all superstitious or sentimental.
Speaker 1: I will like throw away or give away anything. I
Speaker 1: don't know, man, people let like sentimentality like rule like
Speaker 1: their whole lives, and I get it, but like I've
Speaker 1: never felt that way. The only devices I keep, and
Speaker 1: I keep them largely because I just know how quickly
Speaker 1: they're gonna seem crazy. Is I keep all of my
Speaker 1: computers like I have like my my first computer and
Speaker 1: my second computer whatever, because they don't take out that
Speaker 1: much space. And also I just know that like in
Speaker 1: thirty years, it's gonna look nuts, like we're just gonna
Speaker 1: be like, what is this? Yeah, exactly, So I'm not
Speaker 1: I'm not superstitious. People are so funny about the bedroom man,
Speaker 1: Like they're all just like, I gotta go back there
Speaker 1: and record, And I'm like, you know, my my mom
Speaker 1: sleeps in there now, like it's not my I have
Speaker 1: a different house. But the only thing that's in that
Speaker 1: bedroom that I would maybe records my granddad's old beat
Speaker 1: up piano, his upright is in there. So I'm might
Speaker 1: someday maybe I'll be like, I gotta have that cloudy
Speaker 1: upright sound again. But it's kind of it. It's kind
Speaker 1: of a an asinine hypothetical question. If you were growing
Speaker 1: up in the sixties and a purely analog era where
Speaker 1: people went to like gold Star or Abbey Road or
Speaker 1: whatever to cut records, do you think you'd still be
Speaker 1: involved with production? Like how do you think your career
Speaker 1: would be different if you didn't have tools that you
Speaker 1: have a new laptop right now. Such a good question, man, Um,
Speaker 1: you know, I think I think I am so a
Speaker 1: product of the period of time where I was born
Speaker 1: and what was accessible to me. You know, if I
Speaker 1: were born with the same brain and the same appetites
Speaker 1: and the same interests, I'm sure I would be involved
Speaker 1: in music in some capacity. But the level of innovation
Speaker 1: I've been able to be a part of, I have
Speaker 1: no idea if that would be available to me or
Speaker 1: achievable to me. I mean, it's like it's kind of everybody, right,
Speaker 1: Like Bill Gates had access to that computer mainframe at
Speaker 1: his college and whatever. You know, he's a very smart dude,
Speaker 1: but like he had access. You know, if you if
Speaker 1: you take away his access, no matter how smart he was,
Speaker 1: he wouldn't have been able to learn it the way
Speaker 1: that he learned it. So I think there would have
Speaker 1: been amazing things about growing up in the sixties. There
Speaker 1: were so many amazing musicians back then, and holy sh
Speaker 1: it, it it would have been so cool to maybe produce
Speaker 1: like the Beatles or something. But um, who knows. People
Speaker 1: love like the time machine stuff and like as cursed
Speaker 1: as this period of time may seem to be, I
Speaker 1: want to be right now, Like I don't even know
Speaker 1: if I want to be in the future, Like I
Speaker 1: think I just want to be like right now. Well,
Speaker 1: that's the best way to be every every Buddhist in
Speaker 1: the world right now is like, yes, I've been listen
Speaker 1: to this right not being at the moment. You made
Speaker 1: a Bond theme on a tour bus. I think he said,
Speaker 1: I mean that that is believable. I mean, I gotta
Speaker 1: I'm a huge Bond nerd. What was the process like
Speaker 1: for that? That is? It's just so cool? It was
Speaker 1: a really cool process. I am also a Bond nerd
Speaker 1: and I have I have always looked at doing a
Speaker 1: Bond theme as like the the pinnacle of film music collaboration.
Speaker 1: So it was always on my fantasy bucket list of like,
Speaker 1: wouldn't that be unbelievable to do? And you know, they
Speaker 1: were making this, this Bond movie, and we kind of
Speaker 1: got wind of that, not in a secret way. I
Speaker 1: think it was just like the way that anyone would
Speaker 1: know that they're making a movie. Were like, are they
Speaker 1: making a new Bond movie this summer? Isn't Daniel Craig
Speaker 1: doing another one? And uh, we were just like to
Speaker 1: our team, We're like, we will meet with anyone that
Speaker 1: will let us meet with them to try to convince
Speaker 1: them that we're right to do this, you know. So
Speaker 1: we met with Barbara Broccoli and we met with MGM
Speaker 1: and what we were given and I think I'm allowed
Speaker 1: to say this, We were given like a scene of
Speaker 1: the script that was kind of it like the cold open, Yeah,
Speaker 1: and um, so we had that and and that was
Speaker 1: see huge, because um, it's so important to know what
Speaker 1: angle you're writing from. And then on a personal note,
Speaker 1: because I'm kind of obsessed with Bond themes, I was like,
Speaker 1: has to be the movie title, Like all of my
Speaker 1: favorite Bond themes are the movie title, like Live and
Speaker 1: Let Die, Skyfall, gold Finger, like it has to be.
Speaker 1: That was like caveat number one. And then two was
Speaker 1: I'm pretty loosey goosey in terms of like what what
Speaker 1: I'm trying to achieve with goals as a songwriter. But
Speaker 1: with a Bond song, to me, the melody has to
Speaker 1: be completely bulletproof, Like it has to be like a
Speaker 1: melody because it's going to be interpolated through the whole movie,
Speaker 1: like every Bond theme is played by like strings and
Speaker 1: orchestra in the rest of the movie. So I was like,
Speaker 1: the melody has to be like amazing and very Bond.
Speaker 1: So I wrote all of the melodies first, and then
Speaker 1: Billy and I said about sort of perfecting like what
Speaker 1: line would go on each melody, which is very atypical.
Speaker 1: Usually I write melodies and lyrics at the same time,
Speaker 1: because it's much harder to write a lyric, I think
Speaker 1: when you don't have the melody already. Sorry, it's hard
Speaker 1: to write the lyric when you have a melody because
Speaker 1: you have to just like it's a little bit like sadoku,
Speaker 1: like you have to like just fill in the blanks
Speaker 1: in this way. So that was it was this really
Speaker 1: challenging thing. But it actually from sort of start to
Speaker 1: finish of that specific song only a couple of days,
Speaker 1: although there were there were months of like super stress,
Speaker 1: what are we gonna do? And and Tony Siler, who
Speaker 1: was our champion at Billy's label, Interscope, who I adore.
Speaker 1: I think Tony is the greatest. He was the one
Speaker 1: kind of like up to bat for us, you know,
Speaker 1: and he would check in with us. Yeah, it was.
Speaker 1: It was a stressful experience, but mainly it was only
Speaker 1: stressful because I just really wanted to write a great song,
Speaker 1: like I love those bombs songs so much, so I'm
Speaker 1: really proud of the song. That's gotta be so hard.
Speaker 1: I mean to write something that fits the aesthetic but
Speaker 1: also isn't a total cliche to like that's gotta be
Speaker 1: that isn't done before, like that it hasn't already been done.
Speaker 1: Like it was a really satisfying experience. It was also
Speaker 1: a really phenom gonna excuse to work with Hans Zimmer
Speaker 1: and Johnny Marr. Well, they kind of our package deal.
Speaker 1: Johnny was working with Hans on the whole film, and
Speaker 1: then Stephen Lipson like helped produce the song with us.
Speaker 1: But it was so cool, you know, because Billy and
Speaker 1: I are so insular with our own records, doesn't really
Speaker 1: make sense to collaborate with anybody because we're just in
Speaker 1: a room throwing stuff into a fire and seeing what explodes.
Speaker 1: And I feel like with a bond thing. They're like,
Speaker 1: I'm so glad, Like if if they told me to
Speaker 1: do a string arrangement, I would have been like, let
Speaker 1: me try to rip off Hans Zimmer. And if they
Speaker 1: told me to play guitar, I've been like, let me
Speaker 1: try to rip off Johnny Marr. So the fact that
Speaker 1: I got to just have them beyond the record was
Speaker 1: so sick. It was that great line that han Zimmer had.
Speaker 1: It was like, whenevery whenever I get into the studio
Speaker 1: produced I want, I find myself wondering can I do
Speaker 1: it again? There's something we're seeing on his like masterclass
Speaker 1: thing that he's like, I'm I'm vinced I don't know
Speaker 1: how to do your movie. Dude. He's the Yeah, every time,
Speaker 1: every time I'm every time I'm in the middle of
Speaker 1: producing a song, I'm like, maybe this is the one
Speaker 1: where I don't know how to do it. Like me,
Speaker 1: maybe the last song was the last one I'll ever make.
Speaker 1: That's good, Like, I don't know, man, it's so weird.
Speaker 1: Your brain is your brain is dumb. Like the fact
Speaker 1: that your brain puts up such a fight against like
Speaker 1: new stuff is just it's crazy. So he's a he's
Speaker 1: a legend and rightfully so and so nice and so
Speaker 1: collaborative and so like. There was this one point we
Speaker 1: were doing like versions of production. We're like, you know,
Speaker 1: version one of production, version two of production, version three
Speaker 1: of production, version for productive, and there was this version
Speaker 1: that Billy and I were like, this is bad. And
Speaker 1: I was like, Wow, I'm gonna have to call han
Speaker 1: Zimmer and be like this is bad. And we called
Speaker 1: him and he was like it's bad, right, and I
Speaker 1: was like yeah, and he was like I know, and
Speaker 1: and it was like so it was so easy to
Speaker 1: I wish to have that little ego when I have
Speaker 1: won as many Oscars as he has one, like I
Speaker 1: feel like that's like unbelievable, Like if you win an Oscar,
Speaker 1: I feel like your ego must just explode. And he's
Speaker 1: just this like mellow, nice guy, Like I just adore him,
Speaker 1: so I would do I would do like anything for him.
Speaker 1: I feel like I've pledged my allegiance to Hans. I
Speaker 1: gotta ask, aside from Daniel Craig, who's your favorite Bond? Oh?
Speaker 1: You know what, I really like. I have seen a
Speaker 1: film or two of the other of Conner and of Brasman,
Speaker 1: and I think they're great, But like Bond is like Batman.
Speaker 1: It's like whatever you grew up with. So like, I
Speaker 1: just think of Craig as Bond. He's just my guy,
Speaker 1: I think. And again like not that the other Bonds
Speaker 1: weren't great. I think they were, but that's just who
Speaker 1: plays the role in my opinion, you know, I think
Speaker 1: that's like the Christian Bale Michael Keaton, Val Kilmer thing.
Speaker 1: It's like, you know, the Christian is my batman until
Speaker 1: Robert Pattinson is like unbelievable next year. Oh my god,
Speaker 1: I know I can't wait to see that. Okay, well,
Speaker 1: I gotta ask you. I've been asking. This has been
Speaker 1: my last question for everybody. If you could snap your
Speaker 1: fingers and have everything go back to the way it
Speaker 1: was in no COVID, no virus, no lockdown, no quarantine,
Speaker 1: what is the first thing you would do, so like
Speaker 1: like like fantasy wake up one day and everything is
Speaker 1: just sort of like status quo again. Yeah, Freaky Friday style. Yeah. Um,
Speaker 1: really good question. I mean the things that have struck
Speaker 1: me are like the things that we take for granted.
Speaker 1: So I think I would I'd have to say, like
Speaker 1: play a show. I think just the idea, Like we
Speaker 1: played so many shows in twenty nineteen that like we
Speaker 1: enjoyed them, but it was like we were constantly playing shows.
Speaker 1: And I remember being on stage in North Carolina, like
Speaker 1: the day before the lockdown started, where we're like about
Speaker 1: to go home and stop our tour, and I remember
Speaker 1: being like, wow, this this might be the last time
Speaker 1: I'm on stage for a long time, and uh yeah,
Speaker 1: that's the sort of you know, going out to eat,
Speaker 1: seeing friends and stuff. That's all wonderful minutia, but there
Speaker 1: is just kind of nothing in the world like being
Speaker 1: on a stage plan a show. That was a solid
Speaker 1: answer Pace. Thank you so much for your time your music.
Speaker 1: It's been a pleasure. It was great talking to you.
Speaker 1: Thank you, man, it was really good talking to you.
Speaker 1: We hope you enjoyed this episode of Inside the Studio
Speaker 1: Home Edition, a production of high Heart Radio. For more
Speaker 1: episodes of Inside the Studio and other shows from I
Speaker 1: heart Radio, check out the i heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,
Speaker 1: or wherever you get your podcasts.