1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:04,680 Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is 2 00:00:04,760 --> 00:00:09,080 Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or 3 00:00:09,200 --> 00:00:12,079 Speaker 1: learn the stuff they don't want you to know. A 4 00:00:12,200 --> 00:00:25,640 Speaker 1: production of I Heart Radio. Hello, welcome back to the show. 5 00:00:25,680 --> 00:00:28,560 Speaker 1: My name is Mett, my name is Noel. They call 6 00:00:28,680 --> 00:00:31,520 Speaker 1: me Ben. We are joined as always with our super 7 00:00:31,600 --> 00:00:36,400 Speaker 1: producer Paul mission controlled decads. Most importantly, you are you. 8 00:00:36,400 --> 00:00:39,800 Speaker 1: You are here, and that makes this the stuff they 9 00:00:39,840 --> 00:00:44,600 Speaker 1: don't want you to know. Several years ago we embarked 10 00:00:44,760 --> 00:00:49,599 Speaker 1: on a fascinating journey. It was, in short, the idea 11 00:00:49,760 --> 00:00:55,360 Speaker 1: that the human brain maybe in several ways actively conspiring 12 00:00:55,480 --> 00:01:00,360 Speaker 1: against the thing humans think of as their consciousness, you know, 13 00:01:00,560 --> 00:01:04,039 Speaker 1: the you that is listening to this. You can find 14 00:01:04,080 --> 00:01:09,080 Speaker 1: these videos on YouTube. I think I think they hold up. 15 00:01:09,120 --> 00:01:12,240 Speaker 1: I think we're proud of them. They describe the way 16 00:01:12,440 --> 00:01:17,760 Speaker 1: in which the brain processes information and how it changes 17 00:01:17,920 --> 00:01:24,080 Speaker 1: the processing of information during emotive experiences like love or 18 00:01:24,200 --> 00:01:27,600 Speaker 1: hate or fear and so on. I would just say 19 00:01:27,600 --> 00:01:33,720 Speaker 1: we're definitely proud of them, and for sure watch them. 20 00:01:33,800 --> 00:01:36,080 Speaker 1: You watch them, and there's no real order. I actually 21 00:01:36,080 --> 00:01:37,800 Speaker 1: I think there's kind of an order, but there's a 22 00:01:37,800 --> 00:01:40,720 Speaker 1: whole playlist you can find on on there on YouTube 23 00:01:41,080 --> 00:01:43,760 Speaker 1: and uh it it's one of the first series that 24 00:01:43,880 --> 00:01:47,760 Speaker 1: really made me question how I think, what I think, 25 00:01:47,800 --> 00:01:50,320 Speaker 1: and when I think it, and which chemicals are being 26 00:01:50,360 --> 00:01:53,720 Speaker 1: activated at the times that I'm thinking those things. You know, 27 00:01:53,760 --> 00:01:56,400 Speaker 1: I'm a big fan of the concept of thinking about thinking, 28 00:01:56,600 --> 00:02:00,200 Speaker 1: you know, metic cognition. That's a fun one. Yeah and 29 00:02:00,520 --> 00:02:05,040 Speaker 1: uh and shout out to our corporate suits who allowed 30 00:02:05,160 --> 00:02:09,720 Speaker 1: us to skate by with your Brain on Love as 31 00:02:09,919 --> 00:02:15,280 Speaker 1: our required Valentine's Day episode. Uh. It may not have 32 00:02:15,360 --> 00:02:19,160 Speaker 1: been the dish they ordered, but it was on theme 33 00:02:19,400 --> 00:02:24,160 Speaker 1: at the restaurant. Uh. Today we are exploring the way 34 00:02:24,280 --> 00:02:28,040 Speaker 1: the human brain, and the brain of every human being 35 00:02:28,120 --> 00:02:34,960 Speaker 1: you know, approaches and encounters memory. And guess there are 36 00:02:35,080 --> 00:02:39,800 Speaker 1: conspiracies afoot, this is deep water, this is live fire. 37 00:02:40,639 --> 00:02:46,760 Speaker 1: Here are the facts and just not gonna high road anyone, 38 00:02:47,200 --> 00:02:51,640 Speaker 1: not not going to uh sound like we have the 39 00:02:51,680 --> 00:02:55,880 Speaker 1: answers here. The facts are. This your brain, if you 40 00:02:55,960 --> 00:02:59,480 Speaker 1: are human while you're listening to this is a very 41 00:02:59,680 --> 00:03:05,960 Speaker 1: drill ben thing. It wants stuff and biologically speaking, the 42 00:03:06,040 --> 00:03:10,840 Speaker 1: human body is super unfair. There are so many organs 43 00:03:11,040 --> 00:03:15,560 Speaker 1: in the body, so many processes and orders of operation, 44 00:03:16,040 --> 00:03:20,720 Speaker 1: and one of them gets an active vote and a veto. 45 00:03:21,160 --> 00:03:25,560 Speaker 1: That's your brain. The brain is arguably self aware. It 46 00:03:25,720 --> 00:03:31,000 Speaker 1: is inarguably the most self centered organ because it's ultimately 47 00:03:31,200 --> 00:03:37,520 Speaker 1: it's okay, it's got no I'm going somewhere, I'm going somewhere. 48 00:03:37,880 --> 00:03:40,240 Speaker 1: It's it's got the veto power. I guess you could 49 00:03:40,240 --> 00:03:46,120 Speaker 1: say every if we assign sentience to any organ, then uh, 50 00:03:46,320 --> 00:03:48,680 Speaker 1: we're we're kind of opening the door for all of 51 00:03:48,720 --> 00:03:52,280 Speaker 1: them to be very self centered. Right. The liver is going, 52 00:03:53,160 --> 00:03:57,800 Speaker 1: what's going on with this stomach digestive track? This is 53 00:03:57,920 --> 00:04:02,000 Speaker 1: bs uh the most important thing. The thing is your 54 00:04:02,120 --> 00:04:09,800 Speaker 1: liver cannot really change the consciousness and arguably your brain 55 00:04:10,000 --> 00:04:12,240 Speaker 1: can you know, change what your body does that can 56 00:04:12,360 --> 00:04:15,960 Speaker 1: really mess with your liver. Uh, you know what I mean. 57 00:04:16,480 --> 00:04:20,039 Speaker 1: So it's like, yeah, the libido wants sex, but that 58 00:04:20,600 --> 00:04:23,160 Speaker 1: impulse is driven by the brain. You know what I mean. 59 00:04:23,200 --> 00:04:25,480 Speaker 1: I mean, the libidos on an organ, it's a mental 60 00:04:25,640 --> 00:04:28,520 Speaker 1: drive to want something. And there's all kinds of glands 61 00:04:28,560 --> 00:04:30,520 Speaker 1: and things that are connected to your brain, that are 62 00:04:30,520 --> 00:04:34,159 Speaker 1: part of your body, that are driven by the desires 63 00:04:34,200 --> 00:04:36,320 Speaker 1: of your brain. Even when you say the heart wants 64 00:04:36,360 --> 00:04:38,440 Speaker 1: what the heart wants. It's kind of your brain that 65 00:04:38,520 --> 00:04:41,120 Speaker 1: dictates that the part of the heart people referred to 66 00:04:41,600 --> 00:04:44,880 Speaker 1: so dramatically is really in your brain. I will brook 67 00:04:45,160 --> 00:04:49,839 Speaker 1: no insults to the human heart, the actual organ. You 68 00:04:49,960 --> 00:04:54,039 Speaker 1: nailed it. No, Uh, the the actual organ of the heart. 69 00:04:54,800 --> 00:04:58,359 Speaker 1: It's like one of the hardest working things in the 70 00:04:58,440 --> 00:05:03,080 Speaker 1: human body. The your heart right now has been working 71 00:05:03,120 --> 00:05:05,840 Speaker 1: without a day off unless you've had a near death 72 00:05:05,880 --> 00:05:09,200 Speaker 1: experience for the entirety of your life. And it can't 73 00:05:09,200 --> 00:05:12,400 Speaker 1: get a vacation. So just be nice to it, you know, 74 00:05:12,680 --> 00:05:16,680 Speaker 1: heart healthy despite the propaganda. Uh, let's let's go to 75 00:05:16,720 --> 00:05:20,880 Speaker 1: the brain. Though. I I love the point about organs 76 00:05:20,960 --> 00:05:24,679 Speaker 1: being somewhat self centered. The difference between every other organ 77 00:05:24,760 --> 00:05:28,039 Speaker 1: in the human body is that the brain, which is 78 00:05:28,080 --> 00:05:32,400 Speaker 1: a thirsty, thirsty beast, has veto power, and it is 79 00:05:32,680 --> 00:05:38,400 Speaker 1: self centered, and it is ultimately, again, your brain, the hardware, 80 00:05:38,400 --> 00:05:41,560 Speaker 1: not you, not your idea of you. The brain itself 81 00:05:41,640 --> 00:05:46,640 Speaker 1: is focused on one thing, the concept of propagation, whether 82 00:05:46,720 --> 00:05:51,320 Speaker 1: that is the recognition of patterns, whether that is biological reproduction, 83 00:05:51,640 --> 00:05:56,120 Speaker 1: whether that is mimetic reproduction, the right the propagation of ideas. 84 00:05:56,839 --> 00:06:03,000 Speaker 1: It wants things that confirm it's earlier or current beliefs. 85 00:06:03,040 --> 00:06:05,640 Speaker 1: A better way to say it is it wants things 86 00:06:05,680 --> 00:06:09,840 Speaker 1: that make it feel good and correct and right, and 87 00:06:10,000 --> 00:06:15,560 Speaker 1: it will not hesitate to damage other organs in this pursuit. 88 00:06:15,720 --> 00:06:18,599 Speaker 1: That was my cat, who is just hYP manning me there. 89 00:06:20,200 --> 00:06:24,720 Speaker 1: The thing is, if you are a human being, your 90 00:06:24,880 --> 00:06:28,680 Speaker 1: brain does not think of you the same way that 91 00:06:28,760 --> 00:06:31,880 Speaker 1: you think of your brain. It looks at your conscious 92 00:06:31,920 --> 00:06:37,000 Speaker 1: mind functionally as kind of an ancillary thing. It looks 93 00:06:37,080 --> 00:06:42,919 Speaker 1: at your idea of you as something like maybe maybe software, 94 00:06:43,480 --> 00:06:46,680 Speaker 1: maybe a side effect of its original purpose, which is 95 00:06:46,720 --> 00:06:52,000 Speaker 1: again to always be right and to propagate its accuracy 96 00:06:52,080 --> 00:06:56,800 Speaker 1: into the world. Make me feel correct, says the human brain, 97 00:06:57,279 --> 00:07:01,039 Speaker 1: and everything else can be damned. And look, it sounds 98 00:07:01,080 --> 00:07:04,359 Speaker 1: like we're it sounds like we're crapping on the brain 99 00:07:04,480 --> 00:07:07,120 Speaker 1: right now. But don't get us wrong. The brain very 100 00:07:07,160 --> 00:07:12,000 Speaker 1: specific kink. It's very specific kink. Don't get us wrong. 101 00:07:12,040 --> 00:07:16,840 Speaker 1: The brain is, as Fiona Apple once saying, an extraordinary machine. 102 00:07:17,400 --> 00:07:20,640 Speaker 1: It's super cool. It takes this fluid understanding of the 103 00:07:20,680 --> 00:07:23,880 Speaker 1: past events it applies them to what it perceives as 104 00:07:23,960 --> 00:07:29,080 Speaker 1: a present and a future as well, whether abstract or concrete. Sure, 105 00:07:29,160 --> 00:07:32,080 Speaker 1: you could describe it as like a real time evolution. 106 00:07:32,120 --> 00:07:35,640 Speaker 1: I mean it's not, you know, UM biological evolution per se, 107 00:07:35,720 --> 00:07:38,280 Speaker 1: although that's a whole nother discussion. UM. But it is 108 00:07:38,520 --> 00:07:42,760 Speaker 1: a purely adaptable UM entity. All you have to do 109 00:07:43,560 --> 00:07:45,680 Speaker 1: is touch fire one time. For example, I have a 110 00:07:45,680 --> 00:07:48,240 Speaker 1: distinct memory of being a kid, and even when the 111 00:07:48,280 --> 00:07:52,880 Speaker 1: coils on the stove aren't burning red hot looking anymore, Uh, 112 00:07:53,000 --> 00:07:55,320 Speaker 1: you touch it, it's hot. It'll burn the crap out 113 00:07:55,320 --> 00:07:58,160 Speaker 1: of you. I learned really quickly to fear the coils 114 00:07:58,200 --> 00:08:00,600 Speaker 1: on the stove even if they aren't, you giving off 115 00:08:00,640 --> 00:08:04,680 Speaker 1: some sort of visual cue UM. And that feeds a 116 00:08:04,800 --> 00:08:09,320 Speaker 1: memory and creates a sense memory that is tied to pain. Uh. 117 00:08:09,400 --> 00:08:12,440 Speaker 1: Let's say you get your heartbroken, you get broken up with, 118 00:08:12,800 --> 00:08:16,000 Speaker 1: your brain will be cautious about how quickly you throw 119 00:08:16,040 --> 00:08:19,400 Speaker 1: yourself into relationships because as another sense memory, it's a 120 00:08:19,480 --> 00:08:23,240 Speaker 1: sense of loss and uh and longing and hurt. Even 121 00:08:23,240 --> 00:08:25,960 Speaker 1: if it's not physical, it's emotional. But it is a 122 00:08:26,000 --> 00:08:30,520 Speaker 1: memory that will instruct your brain to act accordingly in 123 00:08:30,560 --> 00:08:32,840 Speaker 1: the future to keep those things from happening, to keep 124 00:08:32,880 --> 00:08:36,600 Speaker 1: from feeling bad. To your point, then to continue feeling 125 00:08:36,640 --> 00:08:39,920 Speaker 1: good at the very least achieve stasis, or to keep 126 00:08:39,960 --> 00:08:43,000 Speaker 1: things you do like from reoccurring. Right, I mean we're 127 00:08:43,080 --> 00:08:45,760 Speaker 1: we just briefly mentioned something like a kink jokingly, But 128 00:08:45,840 --> 00:08:49,040 Speaker 1: that's where kicks come from. Right, some sense memory that 129 00:08:49,280 --> 00:08:51,160 Speaker 1: hit you at some point in your life that then 130 00:08:51,200 --> 00:08:54,480 Speaker 1: when it hits you again, it's exciting and arousing in 131 00:08:54,520 --> 00:08:58,000 Speaker 1: whatever way. And now what's your thing? The brain is 132 00:08:58,040 --> 00:09:01,559 Speaker 1: weird like that, it likes doing stuff over and over again. Yes, 133 00:09:01,720 --> 00:09:05,640 Speaker 1: pattern recognition, you nailed it, Matt. Also, you know, human 134 00:09:05,720 --> 00:09:10,760 Speaker 1: beings take so much of this hardware for granted, make 135 00:09:10,840 --> 00:09:15,160 Speaker 1: no mistake. Memory is a superpower, a superpower that I 136 00:09:15,160 --> 00:09:20,200 Speaker 1: would argue is imperfect. To your Pointnel, the concept of 137 00:09:20,240 --> 00:09:25,760 Speaker 1: memory does not exist in all living things. Bacteria, for example, 138 00:09:26,200 --> 00:09:33,120 Speaker 1: have to actively evolve over generations to learn that behavior 139 00:09:33,160 --> 00:09:36,000 Speaker 1: that a human being can learn by touching us stove 140 00:09:36,160 --> 00:09:41,800 Speaker 1: one time. So memory pretty cool. Before we dunk on it, 141 00:09:41,960 --> 00:09:45,600 Speaker 1: we just want to assure everyone memory is pretty cool 142 00:09:45,840 --> 00:09:49,600 Speaker 1: and you're lucky to have it. It's loosely defined. If 143 00:09:49,640 --> 00:09:53,359 Speaker 1: we want to go with the idea of computer analogy, 144 00:09:53,760 --> 00:09:59,320 Speaker 1: it's loosely defined as a collective capability of your hardware 145 00:09:59,559 --> 00:10:03,600 Speaker 1: and you or software. It lets you store data, you 146 00:10:03,840 --> 00:10:07,800 Speaker 1: encode it, and at a constant pace, you retrieve that 147 00:10:07,880 --> 00:10:12,040 Speaker 1: data and apply it to new situations. Imagine a world 148 00:10:12,200 --> 00:10:17,000 Speaker 1: without memory, right, an eternal sunshine of the spotless mind. 149 00:10:17,400 --> 00:10:24,480 Speaker 1: Without your memories, you are unable to recall things like relationships, languages, music, 150 00:10:24,880 --> 00:10:30,040 Speaker 1: your own definition of self, identity, and memory as a 151 00:10:30,160 --> 00:10:34,760 Speaker 1: function of this great, still enigmatic machine that is you. 152 00:10:35,559 --> 00:10:40,480 Speaker 1: That memory is somewhat predictable, and science knows what happens 153 00:10:40,640 --> 00:10:46,000 Speaker 1: in the absence of memory Amnesia Alzheimer's very rare and 154 00:10:46,040 --> 00:10:51,239 Speaker 1: troubling cases like that of a guy named Henry Molaison 155 00:10:51,520 --> 00:10:56,480 Speaker 1: who lost his operative memory at the age of You 156 00:10:56,520 --> 00:11:00,240 Speaker 1: can find this on your search engine of choice. Spoiler alert, 157 00:11:00,640 --> 00:11:02,920 Speaker 1: it's very bad. If I could just say, I mean, 158 00:11:03,320 --> 00:11:05,959 Speaker 1: I think eternal Sunshine is a great touch point a 159 00:11:06,000 --> 00:11:07,600 Speaker 1: little more in the sci fi world, But if you 160 00:11:07,679 --> 00:11:11,320 Speaker 1: really want to see something that beautifully and heartbreaking, Lee 161 00:11:11,440 --> 00:11:16,400 Speaker 1: dramatizes the experience of um of Alzheimer's highly recommend The 162 00:11:16,440 --> 00:11:19,640 Speaker 1: Father with Anthony Hopkins. It was actually you won the 163 00:11:19,640 --> 00:11:21,720 Speaker 1: oscar for it. It was like during one of the 164 00:11:21,760 --> 00:11:26,280 Speaker 1: COVID oscars um but incredible film, absolutely heartbreaking, based on 165 00:11:26,280 --> 00:11:29,920 Speaker 1: a stage play. It really you are in the um 166 00:11:29,960 --> 00:11:33,360 Speaker 1: perspective of the character, and it presents you with these 167 00:11:33,360 --> 00:11:38,240 Speaker 1: scenarios that are in fact entirely disorienting, so you are 168 00:11:38,360 --> 00:11:41,320 Speaker 1: kind of experiencing things the way the main character of 169 00:11:41,320 --> 00:11:44,840 Speaker 1: the film experiences things. And it's jarring but also really 170 00:11:45,080 --> 00:11:47,760 Speaker 1: um educational. So it's it's a it's heavy, but it's 171 00:11:47,800 --> 00:11:49,880 Speaker 1: a It's a very beautiful film and probably the best 172 00:11:50,200 --> 00:11:52,960 Speaker 1: depiction of what that must feel like that I've ever seen. 173 00:11:53,160 --> 00:11:58,800 Speaker 1: See also Momento, I'm gonna say, criminally underrated, really good. 174 00:11:59,120 --> 00:12:03,880 Speaker 1: Oh man, Mats, Matt's doing the Mats doing the diplomatic nod, 175 00:12:04,320 --> 00:12:08,240 Speaker 1: the diplomatico. No, I was I was thinking about. I 176 00:12:08,320 --> 00:12:11,920 Speaker 1: was just remembering the movie, thinking about my memories of 177 00:12:11,920 --> 00:12:16,160 Speaker 1: that movie about memory loss, and uh, I have went 178 00:12:16,200 --> 00:12:18,600 Speaker 1: into that metic cognition thing. I'm gonna stay here. I'm 179 00:12:18,600 --> 00:12:21,160 Speaker 1: still here. We're good. I'm in my office. Okay, alright, 180 00:12:21,160 --> 00:12:23,679 Speaker 1: we're doing a podcast. Cool. It's a nice office too. 181 00:12:24,280 --> 00:12:28,320 Speaker 1: For anyone watching on YouTube. I want to shout out 182 00:12:29,240 --> 00:12:35,199 Speaker 1: Mr math Frederick's amazing backlighting for the X Files picture. 183 00:12:35,720 --> 00:12:37,920 Speaker 1: You know it looks so good. I'm always so happy, 184 00:12:38,440 --> 00:12:40,720 Speaker 1: you know. Ben, you point out in the outline um 185 00:12:40,760 --> 00:12:43,520 Speaker 1: that you know, human beings and and many animals have 186 00:12:43,640 --> 00:12:46,040 Speaker 1: some kind of functioning memory, and that that is sort 187 00:12:46,040 --> 00:12:48,600 Speaker 1: of a hallmark of higher life. Do you think cats 188 00:12:48,600 --> 00:12:51,360 Speaker 1: remember stuff or they're just holes and and like they 189 00:12:51,400 --> 00:12:53,440 Speaker 1: remember but they just don't care, because I just I 190 00:12:53,480 --> 00:12:56,280 Speaker 1: swear cats just don't learn. Uh, and I I've I've 191 00:12:56,320 --> 00:12:59,120 Speaker 1: positive like, does the cat not remember that it's I 192 00:12:59,120 --> 00:13:00,920 Speaker 1: don't want it jump being up and messing with my 193 00:13:00,960 --> 00:13:03,400 Speaker 1: hanging plants, you know, and knocking over the water bowl, 194 00:13:03,480 --> 00:13:06,400 Speaker 1: or does it just genuinely does not care what I 195 00:13:06,520 --> 00:13:11,760 Speaker 1: what I what I want. It's interesting because yes, all 196 00:13:11,920 --> 00:13:17,320 Speaker 1: mammals possess some sort of long term memory to one 197 00:13:17,360 --> 00:13:22,360 Speaker 1: degree or another. However, the case of the household feline 198 00:13:22,720 --> 00:13:28,480 Speaker 1: is somewhat distinct because they are I guess the best 199 00:13:28,480 --> 00:13:34,000 Speaker 1: way to say it is they sort of voluntarily function 200 00:13:34,360 --> 00:13:41,240 Speaker 1: as domesticated animals without being domesticated. That's why if someone dies, 201 00:13:41,920 --> 00:13:46,559 Speaker 1: a dog will sit around at the grave for years, 202 00:13:46,600 --> 00:13:49,199 Speaker 1: but a cat will just you know, if it can't 203 00:13:49,200 --> 00:13:52,640 Speaker 1: eat the eyes, it'll it'll go find another person to 204 00:13:52,760 --> 00:13:56,920 Speaker 1: take care of it story for another day. Uh. Yeah, 205 00:13:57,000 --> 00:14:00,280 Speaker 1: you raise a great point, and at this Jung, sure 206 00:14:00,400 --> 00:14:03,400 Speaker 1: it is fair to ask, if you're listening now, it's 207 00:14:03,400 --> 00:14:07,120 Speaker 1: fair to ask, why do I forget some stuff? It? 208 00:14:07,240 --> 00:14:11,079 Speaker 1: In earlier conversation, the three of us were talking about 209 00:14:12,559 --> 00:14:19,600 Speaker 1: remembering phone numbers, seven digit numbers, right. Uh. We each 210 00:14:19,760 --> 00:14:25,760 Speaker 1: recalled immediately as some numbers, but we don't know most 211 00:14:25,840 --> 00:14:28,840 Speaker 1: phone numbers. Humans don't know most phone numbers. So you 212 00:14:28,880 --> 00:14:33,480 Speaker 1: have to ask yourself why do we remember some things 213 00:14:33,520 --> 00:14:37,680 Speaker 1: and forget others? Someone listening today may say, why can I, 214 00:14:37,800 --> 00:14:42,240 Speaker 1: for instance, remember a day at the beach with pitch 215 00:14:42,520 --> 00:14:46,920 Speaker 1: perfect clarity? You know they're saying, I was eight years 216 00:14:46,920 --> 00:14:50,760 Speaker 1: old and I remember the smell of the ocean, the 217 00:14:51,240 --> 00:14:56,560 Speaker 1: grit of the sand. But why can I not? At 218 00:14:56,600 --> 00:15:00,680 Speaker 1: the same time, for our and as say in turned 219 00:15:00,680 --> 00:15:05,720 Speaker 1: Steve's sake, remember what this person next to me was 220 00:15:05,840 --> 00:15:08,880 Speaker 1: just talking about, Even if I was trying to pay attention, 221 00:15:09,280 --> 00:15:12,560 Speaker 1: Why why can't I remember the street they named? The 222 00:15:12,600 --> 00:15:17,480 Speaker 1: answer is honestly super simple. It's smell. We can do 223 00:15:17,520 --> 00:15:21,280 Speaker 1: an experiment with it later today. If you want to 224 00:15:21,320 --> 00:15:25,680 Speaker 1: remember something, fellow conspiracy realist, if there's something just like 225 00:15:25,840 --> 00:15:29,680 Speaker 1: on the tip of your mental tongue. Ask yourself about 226 00:15:29,720 --> 00:15:33,760 Speaker 1: the smells you remember from that moment. Be careful while 227 00:15:33,800 --> 00:15:37,720 Speaker 1: doing so, because it it might open some doors. Makes 228 00:15:37,720 --> 00:15:40,000 Speaker 1: me think about my son when we first brought him 229 00:15:40,040 --> 00:15:45,480 Speaker 1: home from the hospital. I will never forget that smell. 230 00:15:45,880 --> 00:15:55,320 Speaker 1: First poop hit the diaper. It smells like violets and 231 00:15:55,400 --> 00:16:04,040 Speaker 1: the sunshine. Okay, spoiled milk, my friend, But you remember 232 00:16:04,040 --> 00:16:11,040 Speaker 1: it right, like it's it's encoded in your memory. Met. Yeah, 233 00:16:11,240 --> 00:16:13,920 Speaker 1: I kind a very distinct. I'm sorry. I keep this 234 00:16:13,960 --> 00:16:15,680 Speaker 1: is what it does. Like, you know, you certain things 235 00:16:15,680 --> 00:16:17,520 Speaker 1: trigger these memories and then you just go back and 236 00:16:17,520 --> 00:16:19,120 Speaker 1: you're like down this rabbit hole. But I have a 237 00:16:19,200 --> 00:16:21,800 Speaker 1: very distinct memory from being a kid of like being 238 00:16:21,800 --> 00:16:23,800 Speaker 1: on some sort of school field trip and when I 239 00:16:23,840 --> 00:16:26,560 Speaker 1: was like within Germany, I must have been like five 240 00:16:26,640 --> 00:16:29,360 Speaker 1: or six years old, and I remember discovering this kind 241 00:16:29,360 --> 00:16:33,200 Speaker 1: of underground area that was like a construction site or 242 00:16:33,280 --> 00:16:36,520 Speaker 1: something weird, but it seemed really creepy and mysterious, and 243 00:16:36,560 --> 00:16:40,040 Speaker 1: I remember it had this smell, uh, And I remember 244 00:16:40,080 --> 00:16:42,000 Speaker 1: the smell to this day, and it was sort of 245 00:16:42,120 --> 00:16:46,320 Speaker 1: dank and acrid. But I I recognize that smell um 246 00:16:46,400 --> 00:16:49,360 Speaker 1: whenever I experience it, um and another smell that I 247 00:16:49,400 --> 00:16:51,600 Speaker 1: always remember and that brings me back to a place 248 00:16:51,600 --> 00:16:54,960 Speaker 1: as the smell of California, like San Francisco in particular. 249 00:16:55,000 --> 00:16:58,400 Speaker 1: It just has this like kind of like like weird 250 00:16:58,480 --> 00:17:01,960 Speaker 1: acrid seed salt smell that just other parts of the 251 00:17:01,960 --> 00:17:04,479 Speaker 1: country don't smell like um. So I think I'm with 252 00:17:04,520 --> 00:17:09,320 Speaker 1: you that sense memory associated with smell is really strong. Yes, 253 00:17:09,520 --> 00:17:15,320 Speaker 1: it is the primaryan coder for the mammalian brain. The 254 00:17:15,359 --> 00:17:19,440 Speaker 1: other senses play a part, of course. Taste is just 255 00:17:19,560 --> 00:17:23,560 Speaker 1: sort of a sub genre of smell. And the thing 256 00:17:23,600 --> 00:17:28,000 Speaker 1: about memory is again, it's super cool, but it's also 257 00:17:28,200 --> 00:17:34,240 Speaker 1: super imperfect. Earlier we talked about the fluidity of memory 258 00:17:34,280 --> 00:17:38,479 Speaker 1: and the way in which the brain explores concepts of 259 00:17:38,520 --> 00:17:43,200 Speaker 1: the past. The key word there was not brain necessarily, 260 00:17:43,320 --> 00:17:47,880 Speaker 1: nor was it memory. It was the word fluid. Again. 261 00:17:48,119 --> 00:17:53,080 Speaker 1: Your memory, if you're human, is constructed and maintained by 262 00:17:53,240 --> 00:17:57,280 Speaker 1: the most selfish, most powerful organ in your body. And 263 00:17:57,440 --> 00:18:01,560 Speaker 1: your brain has some conflicts of interest steer, it can 264 00:18:01,960 --> 00:18:09,439 Speaker 1: at will, move, edit, revise, omit, and even add experiences 265 00:18:09,600 --> 00:18:14,959 Speaker 1: of memory, and you, your consciousness, will not be able 266 00:18:15,040 --> 00:18:19,880 Speaker 1: to divine the difference very easily. Your brain can conspire 267 00:18:20,640 --> 00:18:25,000 Speaker 1: against what you think of when you think of you 268 00:18:25,520 --> 00:18:30,000 Speaker 1: and other human beings, just like you are very well 269 00:18:30,040 --> 00:18:33,920 Speaker 1: aware of this fact. We're gonna pause for a word 270 00:18:33,960 --> 00:18:38,800 Speaker 1: from our sponsors, and then maybe will no no no 271 00:18:38,880 --> 00:18:41,919 Speaker 1: will change the future, but we're going to change the 272 00:18:41,960 --> 00:18:54,280 Speaker 1: past just a bit. Here's where it gets crazy. Memory 273 00:18:54,359 --> 00:18:59,320 Speaker 1: is fallible. It's a it's a bad investment. It's like 274 00:18:59,440 --> 00:19:03,040 Speaker 1: an f T ease. Like while we are recording today, 275 00:19:03,080 --> 00:19:09,440 Speaker 1: there are active, powerful forces seeking to change people's perception 276 00:19:10,119 --> 00:19:14,640 Speaker 1: of the past. We can start with a with a fun, 277 00:19:14,720 --> 00:19:20,240 Speaker 1: approachable example, so we don't scare anyone off. You've you've 278 00:19:20,280 --> 00:19:24,879 Speaker 1: heard of him before, long time conspiracy realist. There there's 279 00:19:24,960 --> 00:19:30,119 Speaker 1: a there's a guy that that we talk about pretty 280 00:19:30,160 --> 00:19:34,080 Speaker 1: frequently off air as well as on Mentalist out of 281 00:19:34,119 --> 00:19:38,720 Speaker 1: the United Kingdom. He's named Darren Brown. No relation to 282 00:19:38,760 --> 00:19:41,800 Speaker 1: our pal Noel. Yeah, no, I wish he's a cool guy. Um, 283 00:19:41,880 --> 00:19:44,879 Speaker 1: he's got all kinds of specials, you know. Mentalism is like, 284 00:19:44,920 --> 00:19:46,679 Speaker 1: you know, it's like if you've seen the movie Nightmare. 285 00:19:46,680 --> 00:19:50,040 Speaker 1: Ali Um, I really like the original, but the Gooyam 286 00:19:50,040 --> 00:19:53,000 Speaker 1: Little Tora remake is quite good. Too. It's you know, 287 00:19:53,119 --> 00:19:55,800 Speaker 1: uses things like cold reading, and it's sort of wrapped 288 00:19:55,880 --> 00:19:58,399 Speaker 1: up in the idea of being like a seer, like 289 00:19:58,440 --> 00:20:01,280 Speaker 1: a fortune teller, and you use you know, kind of 290 00:20:01,400 --> 00:20:04,600 Speaker 1: general things that most people would have in common to 291 00:20:04,760 --> 00:20:07,639 Speaker 1: make them feel like, you know, something that you shouldn't know. 292 00:20:07,960 --> 00:20:10,320 Speaker 1: Darren Brown has gamed this and takes it, you know 293 00:20:10,359 --> 00:20:13,239 Speaker 1: as a David Copperfield ask kind of flare to it 294 00:20:13,440 --> 00:20:15,359 Speaker 1: and really makes like a big production of it and 295 00:20:15,400 --> 00:20:18,840 Speaker 1: only has different themes. I mean, the specials are absolutely entertaining. 296 00:20:18,840 --> 00:20:22,600 Speaker 1: He always uses the word stooges, says there are no stooges, uh, 297 00:20:22,880 --> 00:20:25,359 Speaker 1: meaning you know, plants like people that are going to 298 00:20:25,440 --> 00:20:27,760 Speaker 1: act a certain way or pretend to not be in 299 00:20:27,760 --> 00:20:31,480 Speaker 1: on the bit when they actually are. Um. But you know, 300 00:20:31,560 --> 00:20:33,720 Speaker 1: he's compared to kind of a modern day Hudini, which 301 00:20:33,760 --> 00:20:36,679 Speaker 1: we also know we wasn't. He wasn't a magical person. 302 00:20:36,960 --> 00:20:39,400 Speaker 1: He was just a really good showman who like knew 303 00:20:39,440 --> 00:20:42,800 Speaker 1: some tricks and was able to game people's perceptions. Yeah, 304 00:20:42,840 --> 00:20:45,320 Speaker 1: and and before we get into the experiment, we're really 305 00:20:45,320 --> 00:20:47,680 Speaker 1: going to go in depth into today. Just really quickly, 306 00:20:47,720 --> 00:20:51,880 Speaker 1: I'd like to mention another one of his uh, what 307 00:20:51,880 --> 00:20:53,960 Speaker 1: what would we call these things? It's not a stunt, 308 00:20:54,000 --> 00:20:57,280 Speaker 1: it's not a trick. It's a it's a demonstration, let's 309 00:20:57,280 --> 00:21:00,040 Speaker 1: call it. Let's call it okay, So a demonstration, and 310 00:21:00,200 --> 00:21:02,640 Speaker 1: that he gives in a video that he produced at 311 00:21:02,640 --> 00:21:06,480 Speaker 1: some point for a special where he he's talking to 312 00:21:06,600 --> 00:21:10,320 Speaker 1: someone about how he has learned to look at a 313 00:21:10,400 --> 00:21:13,399 Speaker 1: deck of cards as it is being flicked past really quickly, 314 00:21:13,440 --> 00:21:15,680 Speaker 1: if you're flicking through all of the cards, and he's 315 00:21:15,680 --> 00:21:20,960 Speaker 1: just memorized or he's perfected rather the ability to see 316 00:21:21,040 --> 00:21:23,679 Speaker 1: every card in those of the fifty two and know 317 00:21:23,840 --> 00:21:26,320 Speaker 1: which ones are missing when he just flicks through it 318 00:21:26,480 --> 00:21:30,639 Speaker 1: at a lightning fast pace, and you know, he demonstrates 319 00:21:31,119 --> 00:21:33,520 Speaker 1: how he can. You know, he can have this person 320 00:21:33,560 --> 00:21:35,560 Speaker 1: remove one and he'll tell you which one that is, 321 00:21:36,080 --> 00:21:39,960 Speaker 1: or he can flick it through twice and then flip 322 00:21:40,000 --> 00:21:42,840 Speaker 1: over the cards while not looking and tell you every 323 00:21:42,880 --> 00:21:45,359 Speaker 1: card in order what it is. I don't want to 324 00:21:45,359 --> 00:21:48,760 Speaker 1: talk too much shade about him, because maybe that's possible. 325 00:21:49,119 --> 00:21:53,920 Speaker 1: It feels highly unlikely that he could train himself even 326 00:21:53,960 --> 00:21:57,480 Speaker 1: over you know, hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of hours 327 00:21:57,480 --> 00:21:59,879 Speaker 1: and attempts. I don't think you could do that just 328 00:22:00,119 --> 00:22:03,439 Speaker 1: because it is happening so quickly, and he in this 329 00:22:03,480 --> 00:22:06,920 Speaker 1: demonstration he says that it's he's able to slow time 330 00:22:06,960 --> 00:22:09,560 Speaker 1: down the way you would when you experience something traumatic 331 00:22:09,640 --> 00:22:15,159 Speaker 1: like a car accident, and he can just do that, right, 332 00:22:15,240 --> 00:22:19,040 Speaker 1: So that's the thing. Like, Okay, So adetic memory h 333 00:22:19,200 --> 00:22:23,440 Speaker 1: street name photographic memory is a real thing, but it's 334 00:22:23,560 --> 00:22:31,000 Speaker 1: quite rare and it also comes along with some with 335 00:22:31,080 --> 00:22:37,520 Speaker 1: some unfortunate consequences, at least for the human brain. We 336 00:22:37,520 --> 00:22:42,520 Speaker 1: we do have to note, of course, that Darren Brown 337 00:22:42,960 --> 00:22:46,920 Speaker 1: is a showman. I call him a modern day who 338 00:22:47,160 --> 00:22:51,800 Speaker 1: Houdini because he is a skeptic. Uh. And he is 339 00:22:52,119 --> 00:22:58,640 Speaker 1: also he is also not doing doctor Strange magic and 340 00:22:58,840 --> 00:23:02,359 Speaker 1: he can expl laning these things. Of course, there's a 341 00:23:02,400 --> 00:23:08,280 Speaker 1: bit of this stage magician about about the performance and performance. 342 00:23:08,320 --> 00:23:13,600 Speaker 1: It is the idea of flicking through cards and instantly 343 00:23:13,760 --> 00:23:18,359 Speaker 1: knowing which ones are missing. Uh, that could happen. You know, 344 00:23:18,520 --> 00:23:21,359 Speaker 1: there are fifty two cards in a deck. The idea 345 00:23:21,359 --> 00:23:25,040 Speaker 1: of slowing things down is a real thing. Look at 346 00:23:25,040 --> 00:23:29,960 Speaker 1: our earlier episodes on savants who are able with who 347 00:23:30,000 --> 00:23:33,679 Speaker 1: are able to see maybe a visual depiction of something 348 00:23:34,000 --> 00:23:39,600 Speaker 1: and draw it instantly in very high fidelity. It's true, 349 00:23:39,680 --> 00:23:42,400 Speaker 1: I just don't think. I don't think that's the same thing. 350 00:23:42,520 --> 00:23:44,200 Speaker 1: I mean, I think Darren Brown, if he was given 351 00:23:44,200 --> 00:23:45,800 Speaker 1: a deck of cards and was able to flip through 352 00:23:45,800 --> 00:23:48,600 Speaker 1: them at like regular speed, could probably memorize fifty two 353 00:23:48,640 --> 00:23:51,800 Speaker 1: cards in order. Um, you know, given a minute to 354 00:23:51,840 --> 00:23:54,080 Speaker 1: study the deck. But the trick part of it, and 355 00:23:54,119 --> 00:23:58,240 Speaker 1: the part that makes it seem absolutely unbelievable or like magic, 356 00:23:58,359 --> 00:23:59,840 Speaker 1: is the fact that he's flipping through it. If that's 357 00:23:59,840 --> 00:24:03,680 Speaker 1: a appid rape. Another Darren Brown asked, dude that I 358 00:24:03,720 --> 00:24:06,080 Speaker 1: don't think it gets quite as much credit as he deserves. 359 00:24:06,320 --> 00:24:09,680 Speaker 1: Um is a dude named Derek del Gaudio. He did 360 00:24:09,680 --> 00:24:12,919 Speaker 1: this incredible performance called in and of Itself. It's like, 361 00:24:13,119 --> 00:24:14,520 Speaker 1: I think it's one of the coolest things I've ever seen. 362 00:24:14,480 --> 00:24:17,719 Speaker 1: It is very Darren Brown asked. But like clearly theater 363 00:24:17,720 --> 00:24:20,280 Speaker 1: her forward and I don't think he's meaning for you 364 00:24:20,320 --> 00:24:22,280 Speaker 1: to believe what you see. In fact, I think he 365 00:24:22,320 --> 00:24:24,119 Speaker 1: instructs you not to believe what you see at some 366 00:24:24,160 --> 00:24:26,080 Speaker 1: point in the in the preamble for it, and he 367 00:24:26,119 --> 00:24:28,880 Speaker 1: does very similar stuff. But he tells his story about 368 00:24:28,920 --> 00:24:30,920 Speaker 1: being a card counter, and like being able to using 369 00:24:30,960 --> 00:24:33,199 Speaker 1: these tricks to like gamble and like make money. And 370 00:24:33,240 --> 00:24:36,000 Speaker 1: we know that's the thing. People count cards and blackjack 371 00:24:36,040 --> 00:24:38,639 Speaker 1: and they make a living doing that, you know, bouncing 372 00:24:38,640 --> 00:24:42,800 Speaker 1: around until they get caught. So skills exist. Yeah, black 373 00:24:42,880 --> 00:24:46,719 Speaker 1: jack has changed Vegas locals. I know a lot of 374 00:24:46,720 --> 00:24:50,280 Speaker 1: you are in the audience today. Let's talk about let's 375 00:24:50,320 --> 00:24:54,960 Speaker 1: talk about moving those shoes. I'm not going to explain its, right, Yeah, 376 00:24:55,720 --> 00:24:59,760 Speaker 1: the dealer's game the game, and so you can't. Yeah, exactly, 377 00:24:59,800 --> 00:25:04,040 Speaker 1: the house always wins. So to to memory for everybody 378 00:25:04,040 --> 00:25:07,000 Speaker 1: who remembers what we were just talking about. The mentalist 379 00:25:07,080 --> 00:25:11,600 Speaker 1: Darren Brown, I want to draw your attention to video 380 00:25:11,880 --> 00:25:16,560 Speaker 1: available on YouTube now. To Matt's point, Darren Brown is, 381 00:25:16,640 --> 00:25:20,639 Speaker 1: by his own admission, a showman, right, he is a producer, 382 00:25:20,800 --> 00:25:23,760 Speaker 1: a performer, but he's also a mentalist and he does 383 00:25:23,840 --> 00:25:27,680 Speaker 1: something really interesting. I thought this was a good way 384 00:25:27,840 --> 00:25:33,119 Speaker 1: in because, um, because of the deification of celebrities that 385 00:25:33,160 --> 00:25:39,880 Speaker 1: occurs now, right, society ignores amazing and terrible things that 386 00:25:40,000 --> 00:25:45,200 Speaker 1: happened to regular people. But the minute someone who is 387 00:25:45,280 --> 00:25:49,160 Speaker 1: seen as a public figure as one of those same experiences, 388 00:25:49,480 --> 00:25:52,399 Speaker 1: it's a big deal. So off my high Horse. Here's 389 00:25:52,440 --> 00:25:57,080 Speaker 1: what happens. There's an actor, Simon Pegg. He's brilliant, uh 390 00:25:57,119 --> 00:26:03,080 Speaker 1: and a very smart guy, comedian, writer, director, and in 391 00:26:03,119 --> 00:26:08,360 Speaker 1: this video, Darren Brown, the mentalist, asked Simon Peg to 392 00:26:08,440 --> 00:26:14,320 Speaker 1: write down his ideal birthday present, the thing he would 393 00:26:14,560 --> 00:26:19,359 Speaker 1: most want as a gift to celebrate his personal New Year's. 394 00:26:20,080 --> 00:26:25,320 Speaker 1: A few days after that, Darren Brown invites this celebrity, 395 00:26:25,560 --> 00:26:31,480 Speaker 1: Simon Peg two hang out with him and he says, Hey, Simon, 396 00:26:32,359 --> 00:26:36,760 Speaker 1: I think I got your present without you know knowing 397 00:26:36,800 --> 00:26:39,480 Speaker 1: what your president is. I think I have guessed at 398 00:26:39,560 --> 00:26:45,600 Speaker 1: your absolute favorite birthday gift. And for the record, uh, 399 00:26:45,760 --> 00:26:51,480 Speaker 1: Simon Peg has written down with his own hand that 400 00:26:51,800 --> 00:26:55,800 Speaker 1: that ideal birthday gift is sealed it in an envelope. 401 00:26:56,280 --> 00:27:01,320 Speaker 1: No one but him has seen it. Fast forward, Darren 402 00:27:01,320 --> 00:27:08,280 Speaker 1: Brown and Simon Peg have a conversation and Peg is flummixed, amazed, 403 00:27:08,640 --> 00:27:14,879 Speaker 1: a little past words when Darren opens up this you know, 404 00:27:15,320 --> 00:27:22,840 Speaker 1: performatively large gift box and shows Simon Peg the dream gift, 405 00:27:23,160 --> 00:27:28,919 Speaker 1: which is a red BMX bike. Cool, very consider a 406 00:27:28,920 --> 00:27:32,280 Speaker 1: gift giver, no added, No, Simon like to shred that's 407 00:27:32,280 --> 00:27:36,520 Speaker 1: pretty cool? Yeah, man, Well, apparently he didn't know he 408 00:27:36,600 --> 00:27:41,080 Speaker 1: liked to either until he had the conversation with Darren 409 00:27:41,119 --> 00:27:46,200 Speaker 1: Brown and was manipulated all day long during the shooting 410 00:27:46,200 --> 00:27:51,560 Speaker 1: of that video. Yeah, apparently he originally wanted a leather jacket. Um. 411 00:27:51,560 --> 00:27:54,800 Speaker 1: But that's the thing. It's like he's Simon, I'm sorry. 412 00:27:55,240 --> 00:27:58,560 Speaker 1: Darren Brown claims that he can and I think this 413 00:27:58,640 --> 00:28:01,159 Speaker 1: is probably true. It's the same actually as what I 414 00:28:01,240 --> 00:28:04,080 Speaker 1: was talking about earlier, with the mentalist tricks they used 415 00:28:04,080 --> 00:28:06,560 Speaker 1: to communicate with each other. You have the the medium 416 00:28:06,640 --> 00:28:09,359 Speaker 1: or whatever, then they always have an assistant and through 417 00:28:09,520 --> 00:28:13,800 Speaker 1: emphasis of certain syllables and use of certain words in 418 00:28:13,920 --> 00:28:17,199 Speaker 1: certain order, they can communicate ideas to each other. I 419 00:28:17,200 --> 00:28:19,840 Speaker 1: think the theory is that that Darren Brown does something 420 00:28:19,920 --> 00:28:24,120 Speaker 1: similar where he implants an idea subconsciously into someone's head 421 00:28:24,119 --> 00:28:26,760 Speaker 1: over a period of time in a similar method, by 422 00:28:26,920 --> 00:28:31,360 Speaker 1: emphasizing certain words or whatever, like, you're communicating a message 423 00:28:31,400 --> 00:28:33,840 Speaker 1: behind the message that the person doesn't even realize they're 424 00:28:33,880 --> 00:28:37,760 Speaker 1: receiving um until their hand is guided to to write 425 00:28:37,760 --> 00:28:39,840 Speaker 1: this thing down. Now. I know that you're maybe skeptical 426 00:28:39,880 --> 00:28:43,520 Speaker 1: about about whether that's possible, um, but Simon Peg would 427 00:28:43,520 --> 00:28:45,360 Speaker 1: probably tell you that he he wasn't in on it, 428 00:28:45,520 --> 00:28:47,920 Speaker 1: and I tend to believe that it's he isn't in 429 00:28:47,960 --> 00:28:51,760 Speaker 1: the game exactly, thank you. So no, priming is definitely real. 430 00:28:52,720 --> 00:28:57,200 Speaker 1: I'm skeptical sometimes of the the packages, the video packages 431 00:28:57,320 --> 00:29:02,400 Speaker 1: that we're given. I I'm not saying he's completely bessing. 432 00:29:02,800 --> 00:29:06,320 Speaker 1: I'm saying he's doing some real things. It's just they're 433 00:29:06,360 --> 00:29:10,160 Speaker 1: so much more sensational than I think how they generally 434 00:29:10,240 --> 00:29:13,600 Speaker 1: function in the world. Yeah, it's you know what it is. 435 00:29:13,760 --> 00:29:19,080 Speaker 1: I would argue it's a function of cherry picking and attrition. 436 00:29:19,440 --> 00:29:23,800 Speaker 1: For every successful experiment of this sort demonstration, to use 437 00:29:23,880 --> 00:29:29,120 Speaker 1: the earlier word, there are probably multiple demonstrations that did 438 00:29:29,120 --> 00:29:35,080 Speaker 1: not go the same way. So back to our our boys, uh, Simon, Darren, 439 00:29:35,600 --> 00:29:39,400 Speaker 1: they opened this envelope together. It contains, as we said earlier, 440 00:29:39,440 --> 00:29:43,040 Speaker 1: that wish for a leather jacket. And here's the weird 441 00:29:43,160 --> 00:29:50,840 Speaker 1: thing about memory. Simon Peg sincerely seems not to remember 442 00:29:51,080 --> 00:29:56,160 Speaker 1: writing that wish down. He genuinely believed or his brain 443 00:29:56,360 --> 00:30:01,280 Speaker 1: told him that he had always wished for a BMX bike. 444 00:30:01,840 --> 00:30:06,840 Speaker 1: And again, to add these asterisks and caveats, we must 445 00:30:06,920 --> 00:30:12,960 Speaker 1: understand this mentalist and performer, Darren Brown very smart guy. 446 00:30:13,040 --> 00:30:15,560 Speaker 1: Also pretty good painter. By the way, if you've seen 447 00:30:15,600 --> 00:30:22,800 Speaker 1: his work, he is conducting these demonstrations as harmless, illuminating 448 00:30:23,240 --> 00:30:27,080 Speaker 1: entertainment education. There's a nod and a wink to it, 449 00:30:27,520 --> 00:30:32,760 Speaker 1: but the point holds true. Not all people attempting to 450 00:30:33,040 --> 00:30:38,960 Speaker 1: change your memories will be as kind nor as performative. 451 00:30:39,320 --> 00:30:43,080 Speaker 1: Like think about the science. All right, if you we're 452 00:30:43,160 --> 00:30:46,840 Speaker 1: listening along together, we're in the show together. We've all 453 00:30:47,000 --> 00:30:53,120 Speaker 1: had a cavalcade of individual memories occurring. And every time 454 00:30:53,200 --> 00:30:59,640 Speaker 1: you have a memory, essentially cognitively, you are hallucinating each 455 00:30:59,640 --> 00:31:03,200 Speaker 1: and every time you remember something, you're taking this weird 456 00:31:03,320 --> 00:31:08,400 Speaker 1: trip through your brain, flipping through these neuroelectric patterns of 457 00:31:08,560 --> 00:31:13,240 Speaker 1: synapsis of firing and sequence, and every time the neurons 458 00:31:13,280 --> 00:31:17,440 Speaker 1: their fire, they're doing so in the context of your 459 00:31:17,480 --> 00:31:21,800 Speaker 1: current sensory input. And you don't notice most of these 460 00:31:21,840 --> 00:31:26,360 Speaker 1: backgrounds cognitive calculations. But I would argue, I would posit 461 00:31:26,680 --> 00:31:30,880 Speaker 1: this is very much a scene and setting situation, just 462 00:31:30,960 --> 00:31:34,960 Speaker 1: like psilocybin or LSD. How people say, don't you know, 463 00:31:35,480 --> 00:31:38,920 Speaker 1: don't take shrooms when you're in a bad mood, or 464 00:31:39,360 --> 00:31:41,920 Speaker 1: don't take acid unless you feel like you're in a 465 00:31:42,000 --> 00:31:48,720 Speaker 1: safe place. Memories are your consciousness traveling somewhere fourth dimensionally, 466 00:31:49,560 --> 00:31:51,920 Speaker 1: that's true. And then you mentioned the concept of priming 467 00:31:51,920 --> 00:31:55,720 Speaker 1: earlier and things like anchoring. Um. So, if, for example, 468 00:31:55,840 --> 00:31:58,120 Speaker 1: we were to ask you to free associate a word 469 00:31:58,200 --> 00:32:01,320 Speaker 1: with a smell, um, Okay, you want to you want 470 00:32:01,320 --> 00:32:04,680 Speaker 1: to do it? Yes, I'm so excited. Okay, Yes, this 471 00:32:04,760 --> 00:32:08,360 Speaker 1: is a live experiment. This is like the time that 472 00:32:08,480 --> 00:32:13,200 Speaker 1: we wrapped Matt's phone in aluminum foil. All right, okay, 473 00:32:13,280 --> 00:32:17,600 Speaker 1: here we go, Matt. Noel, I'm gonna give you a word. 474 00:32:17,920 --> 00:32:20,560 Speaker 1: I know you guys can read this word, but please don't. 475 00:32:20,680 --> 00:32:24,600 Speaker 1: I'm gonna give you. And right when you hear this word, 476 00:32:24,680 --> 00:32:27,080 Speaker 1: play along at home. This is a safe one. Right 477 00:32:27,080 --> 00:32:31,880 Speaker 1: when you hear this word, tell me immediately the smell 478 00:32:32,360 --> 00:32:35,880 Speaker 1: that pops up in your mind. Are you guys ready, 479 00:32:36,000 --> 00:32:49,800 Speaker 1: do we have informed? Okay? Okay? Three two one discovery, Bleach, Discovery. 480 00:32:50,280 --> 00:32:51,320 Speaker 1: I was supposed to say it out loud. I was 481 00:32:51,320 --> 00:32:53,880 Speaker 1: supposed to keep know you got it, you got it perfect. Yeah. 482 00:32:53,880 --> 00:32:57,920 Speaker 1: The first thing that came to mind, Bleach says Noel. Uh, 483 00:32:58,240 --> 00:33:02,760 Speaker 1: it was tomato soup. Uh. And it's yeah, but but 484 00:33:02,880 --> 00:33:05,680 Speaker 1: it's weird. It's a different thing for me. It's it's 485 00:33:05,720 --> 00:33:08,840 Speaker 1: where we worked rather than the concept of Discovery. So 486 00:33:08,880 --> 00:33:12,400 Speaker 1: I just went back immediately to the old Discovery studios. 487 00:33:12,720 --> 00:33:14,640 Speaker 1: See mine was based on where we worked too. But 488 00:33:14,680 --> 00:33:19,760 Speaker 1: I remember the bathrooms. They're smelling like bleach. It was 489 00:33:19,840 --> 00:33:23,560 Speaker 1: me having eat tomato soup because I was poor as hell. Now, now, 490 00:33:23,960 --> 00:33:26,840 Speaker 1: did you guys when you when you heard that word 491 00:33:27,040 --> 00:33:30,600 Speaker 1: and you were primed to think in terms of smell, 492 00:33:31,400 --> 00:33:34,400 Speaker 1: did you feel immediacy? Did you feel like you were 493 00:33:34,440 --> 00:33:38,640 Speaker 1: traveling to a moment or what was your process? What 494 00:33:38,800 --> 00:33:43,240 Speaker 1: was your experience to a degree? Yeah, yeah, I pictured 495 00:33:43,280 --> 00:33:47,320 Speaker 1: the I pictured the space. I pictured the Buckhead office, 496 00:33:47,600 --> 00:33:49,560 Speaker 1: you know, back when we were in that place on 497 00:33:49,600 --> 00:33:53,880 Speaker 1: Peachtree Um. That is what I associate with the Discovery 498 00:33:53,920 --> 00:33:57,760 Speaker 1: era of of this of this company and of this job. 499 00:33:57,960 --> 00:34:01,200 Speaker 1: And the bathrooms they're just had a certain smell. Um 500 00:34:01,400 --> 00:34:03,880 Speaker 1: all bathrooms kind of can smell bleachy. I don't know 501 00:34:03,920 --> 00:34:05,520 Speaker 1: they even smelled that way all the time. I must 502 00:34:05,520 --> 00:34:07,600 Speaker 1: have just say that's such a just a strong smell 503 00:34:08,239 --> 00:34:11,520 Speaker 1: that can permeate, you know, uh, and it can bring 504 00:34:11,600 --> 00:34:13,600 Speaker 1: back a memory. And so that's the I'm sure, there 505 00:34:13,640 --> 00:34:16,080 Speaker 1: are other times it's smelled like you know, air freshener, 506 00:34:16,200 --> 00:34:19,880 Speaker 1: like urnal cakes. See my brain just messing with me. 507 00:34:20,040 --> 00:34:23,880 Speaker 1: I'm super hungry and discovery it just probabed me, like 508 00:34:23,960 --> 00:34:25,960 Speaker 1: I'm hungry. What would I be eating right now? I'd 509 00:34:26,080 --> 00:34:28,960 Speaker 1: be going to the brake room and making some soup. Alright, 510 00:34:29,080 --> 00:34:32,919 Speaker 1: let's do this is fantastic. Let's do it. UM's let's 511 00:34:32,960 --> 00:34:38,400 Speaker 1: take another approach. Let's let's see I I was steering 512 00:34:38,440 --> 00:34:43,080 Speaker 1: this first one. So let's have someone else name a 513 00:34:43,480 --> 00:34:48,399 Speaker 1: smell and get a verbal response. Let's let's try. Like 514 00:34:48,440 --> 00:34:51,520 Speaker 1: what we're doing here is we're driving both ways on 515 00:34:51,600 --> 00:34:53,920 Speaker 1: the inner state of the mind. If that means all right, 516 00:34:54,000 --> 00:34:55,600 Speaker 1: I'll do this one. I'll do this one. And so 517 00:34:55,640 --> 00:34:58,480 Speaker 1: it's both of you, guys. I'm gonna give you a 518 00:34:58,560 --> 00:35:02,440 Speaker 1: very specific smell. You guys are going to come up 519 00:35:02,480 --> 00:35:07,640 Speaker 1: with words and memories that you associate with that smell. Ready, 520 00:35:08,320 --> 00:35:19,440 Speaker 1: m hmmm, so ready cinnamon pop tart? Yeah, mugs, mugs, yeah, yeah, yeah, 521 00:35:20,520 --> 00:35:26,920 Speaker 1: uh oh, that's pretty good. Pop tart is strong the 522 00:35:26,920 --> 00:35:29,799 Speaker 1: most underrated. I think it's the most underrated pop tart 523 00:35:29,960 --> 00:35:32,560 Speaker 1: to be honest. The just the regular brown sugar, cinnamon, 524 00:35:32,640 --> 00:35:36,040 Speaker 1: pop tart, big big fan. And so what came to you, 525 00:35:36,120 --> 00:35:38,840 Speaker 1: Matt when when you said cinnamon, Because you took a 526 00:35:38,960 --> 00:35:41,840 Speaker 1: pause and I could hear you kind of going through 527 00:35:41,960 --> 00:35:45,719 Speaker 1: the file cabinet of smells in your mind. For me, 528 00:35:45,760 --> 00:35:48,920 Speaker 1: it's holidays at my parents house, and it's specific, it's 529 00:35:48,960 --> 00:35:51,120 Speaker 1: like mug like kind of what you're talking about. But 530 00:35:51,160 --> 00:35:53,200 Speaker 1: in this case it would be filled with the pot pourri. 531 00:35:53,440 --> 00:35:55,760 Speaker 1: But cinnamon was always like one of the top notes 532 00:35:55,840 --> 00:35:59,000 Speaker 1: that I experienced in that. So you know, my second 533 00:35:59,040 --> 00:36:01,680 Speaker 1: choice would have been rooms because I always think of 534 00:36:01,760 --> 00:36:04,239 Speaker 1: the cinnamon brooms they have at the grocery store around 535 00:36:04,280 --> 00:36:08,040 Speaker 1: the holidays. So there is that like a cloying smell 536 00:36:08,080 --> 00:36:11,640 Speaker 1: associated with like Christmas time, Christmas season even earlier than that, 537 00:36:11,760 --> 00:36:14,959 Speaker 1: like as early as October, you know, with Halloween, those 538 00:36:15,040 --> 00:36:18,840 Speaker 1: those god awful cinnamon brooms. Um. But I think I 539 00:36:18,880 --> 00:36:21,120 Speaker 1: see where you're going with this, Ben, Like in terms 540 00:36:21,200 --> 00:36:24,360 Speaker 1: of the highway and the two ways that the mental 541 00:36:25,400 --> 00:36:29,360 Speaker 1: brain cars can drive, you can sort of pre empt 542 00:36:29,400 --> 00:36:32,520 Speaker 1: these things and even a short circuit them, because you know, 543 00:36:32,560 --> 00:36:36,320 Speaker 1: it's the same as cold reading. Like you know, in general, 544 00:36:36,440 --> 00:36:39,960 Speaker 1: what a broad swath of people might associate with a 545 00:36:40,000 --> 00:36:42,719 Speaker 1: certain smell, and you can kind of reverse engineer the 546 00:36:42,760 --> 00:36:47,279 Speaker 1: response that you want, right just so, yeah, this is why, 547 00:36:47,320 --> 00:36:54,560 Speaker 1: this is why some department stores will pipe in certain smells, uh, 548 00:36:55,080 --> 00:36:59,680 Speaker 1: when they know that there are customers who may spend money. 549 00:37:00,280 --> 00:37:05,959 Speaker 1: You can also this is highly unethical. You can try 550 00:37:06,040 --> 00:37:10,120 Speaker 1: this at home. We are not legally responsible. You can 551 00:37:10,400 --> 00:37:18,600 Speaker 1: permeate an environment with a particular olfactory trigger to induce 552 00:37:19,200 --> 00:37:24,560 Speaker 1: a response that you wish with a given individual. I 553 00:37:24,640 --> 00:37:28,960 Speaker 1: don't know whether law enforcement is I don't know where 554 00:37:29,000 --> 00:37:32,960 Speaker 1: they're at with this approach. At this point. They might 555 00:37:33,000 --> 00:37:35,840 Speaker 1: be doing some kind of primitive things like the smell 556 00:37:35,880 --> 00:37:39,200 Speaker 1: of hot coffee or having someone hold a warm drink 557 00:37:39,239 --> 00:37:43,880 Speaker 1: to make them feel more like amicable. But but there's 558 00:37:44,000 --> 00:37:46,160 Speaker 1: much more to be done. And the thing you have 559 00:37:46,239 --> 00:37:49,759 Speaker 1: to realize is that people are doing it. Uh, this 560 00:37:49,920 --> 00:37:55,719 Speaker 1: loophole of encoding, it's the primary reason memories exist, and 561 00:37:55,880 --> 00:37:59,080 Speaker 1: they are cognitive shortcuts, kind of a cliff notes to 562 00:37:59,160 --> 00:38:02,920 Speaker 1: the great pattern recognizer of the brain. But we just 563 00:38:03,040 --> 00:38:07,239 Speaker 1: showed you that these things can be changed. We're gonna 564 00:38:07,320 --> 00:38:11,360 Speaker 1: pause for a word from our sponsor, and then we'll 565 00:38:11,400 --> 00:38:22,560 Speaker 1: return with the war in East Asia. We're back. We've 566 00:38:22,600 --> 00:38:32,600 Speaker 1: always been at war with Eurasia in these signals, I 567 00:38:32,600 --> 00:38:36,200 Speaker 1: don't even remember what was it East Asia. I'll just 568 00:38:36,440 --> 00:38:39,600 Speaker 1: believe whatever you tell me. News at ten Smell the 569 00:38:39,640 --> 00:38:48,040 Speaker 1: cinnamon in uh. In this great and terrifying novel dystopia 570 00:38:48,360 --> 00:38:53,120 Speaker 1: called nineteen eighty four, guy named George Orwell writes about 571 00:38:53,160 --> 00:38:57,960 Speaker 1: a so far fictional narrative regarding the fallibility of memory. 572 00:38:58,280 --> 00:39:05,760 Speaker 1: You guys remember ninety four? You read it, you know? Um, oh, yeah, 573 00:39:05,840 --> 00:39:08,719 Speaker 1: of course it's It's one of the two stories that 574 00:39:09,360 --> 00:39:11,720 Speaker 1: really form the way I think about most all things, 575 00:39:11,840 --> 00:39:14,520 Speaker 1: especially when it comes to science fiction and what's been 576 00:39:14,560 --> 00:39:17,000 Speaker 1: happening over the course of my life. That one in 577 00:39:17,040 --> 00:39:20,359 Speaker 1: Brave New World just kind of meld together and show 578 00:39:20,440 --> 00:39:23,480 Speaker 1: us all the ways that Black Mirror will become reality 579 00:39:23,520 --> 00:39:27,839 Speaker 1: one day. Yes, as we say, sci fi has an 580 00:39:27,840 --> 00:39:33,799 Speaker 1: expiration date. How long will it be fiction? So? Uh yeah, 581 00:39:33,840 --> 00:39:37,000 Speaker 1: you know in in ninety eight four. For our purposes here, 582 00:39:37,080 --> 00:39:40,320 Speaker 1: what's interesting about the action of memory is that people 583 00:39:40,520 --> 00:39:47,080 Speaker 1: are required by an oppressive government to regularly edit their 584 00:39:47,200 --> 00:39:51,640 Speaker 1: experiences of the past such that they appear to consciously 585 00:39:52,239 --> 00:39:56,080 Speaker 1: vibe with whatever the present narrative is. And the reason 586 00:39:56,120 --> 00:40:01,480 Speaker 1: it's dystopian is that the that present narrative is ephemeral, 587 00:40:01,640 --> 00:40:04,840 Speaker 1: It is transient, It is always shifting, and one must 588 00:40:04,880 --> 00:40:08,759 Speaker 1: always have always agreed with whatever it happens to be 589 00:40:09,160 --> 00:40:12,760 Speaker 1: at that day, that year, that time, that minute. There 590 00:40:12,800 --> 00:40:19,080 Speaker 1: are other explorations of this experience, this editing a memory 591 00:40:19,120 --> 00:40:21,960 Speaker 1: in you know, for now science fiction. I want to 592 00:40:21,960 --> 00:40:26,200 Speaker 1: give it a shout out to Neil Stevenson's an Athem, 593 00:40:26,440 --> 00:40:30,880 Speaker 1: especially the rhetors in that thing there are. They're so creepy, 594 00:40:30,960 --> 00:40:34,000 Speaker 1: you guys would love to know. Uh, it's so it's 595 00:40:34,000 --> 00:40:37,040 Speaker 1: so creepy there there. Uh, this is like my magic, 596 00:40:37,120 --> 00:40:41,640 Speaker 1: the gathering moment, Matt. There are these uh two secret 597 00:40:41,719 --> 00:40:48,160 Speaker 1: conspiratorial camps of super monks, and some of them are 598 00:40:48,320 --> 00:40:53,880 Speaker 1: in cantors who are able to use um variation of 599 00:40:54,040 --> 00:40:59,000 Speaker 1: quantum ideation to shift the future, and then the raetors 600 00:40:59,440 --> 00:41:01,840 Speaker 1: are able to do the same thing with the past. 601 00:41:02,280 --> 00:41:05,040 Speaker 1: It is nuts. It is weird that it has not 602 00:41:05,120 --> 00:41:08,560 Speaker 1: been adapted. But what about the encanters Ben in the 603 00:41:08,600 --> 00:41:11,480 Speaker 1: third Sack. I have no idea what those things mean. 604 00:41:12,840 --> 00:41:15,800 Speaker 1: It's so good. It's so good. We're gonna get letters 605 00:41:15,840 --> 00:41:18,839 Speaker 1: about this, or we have gotten letters, or history will 606 00:41:18,920 --> 00:41:23,920 Speaker 1: change such that we've received letters. Anyway, as we've established, 607 00:41:24,480 --> 00:41:29,200 Speaker 1: the memory game is the same, and it sounds like 608 00:41:29,320 --> 00:41:33,440 Speaker 1: we're having you know, a fun chat or whatever. But 609 00:41:34,239 --> 00:41:38,920 Speaker 1: this is this is why gas lighting works in abusive relationships. 610 00:41:39,400 --> 00:41:45,239 Speaker 1: This is also not restricted to an individual experience. Right now, 611 00:41:45,719 --> 00:41:52,240 Speaker 1: mass memory changes are occurring on a country wide scale. 612 00:41:52,320 --> 00:41:56,000 Speaker 1: Like what about the Philippines. Let's show them to the Philippines. 613 00:41:56,040 --> 00:41:59,120 Speaker 1: This is a this is crazy. I feel like this 614 00:41:59,239 --> 00:42:01,239 Speaker 1: happened in the US as well, so you know, not 615 00:42:01,360 --> 00:42:03,759 Speaker 1: just a point a figure at you anyone living in 616 00:42:03,800 --> 00:42:07,319 Speaker 1: the Philippines. But this is weird stuff. Uh. There's a 617 00:42:07,360 --> 00:42:10,320 Speaker 1: brand new president as we're recording today in the Philippines. 618 00:42:10,640 --> 00:42:15,799 Speaker 1: Name is Ferdinand Marcos Jr. It's important. Uh, it's very 619 00:42:15,960 --> 00:42:19,680 Speaker 1: very interesting. Cat. He's got a lineage. See he's uh 620 00:42:19,760 --> 00:42:23,160 Speaker 1: he was sired let's say by this other guy who 621 00:42:23,239 --> 00:42:27,239 Speaker 1: was also at Marcos. Uh Ferdinand Marcos has see its 622 00:42:27,360 --> 00:42:31,439 Speaker 1: same name, just no junior there. Uh he was. Yeah, 623 00:42:31,480 --> 00:42:34,719 Speaker 1: he was a former dictator of the Philippines. Uh, not 624 00:42:34,840 --> 00:42:37,400 Speaker 1: so great one one that you know a lot of 625 00:42:37,400 --> 00:42:39,960 Speaker 1: people probably didn't like so much there in the Philippines. 626 00:42:40,520 --> 00:42:44,720 Speaker 1: And they've just elected his son. Maybe that's fine. Maybe 627 00:42:44,760 --> 00:42:46,920 Speaker 1: that's fine, except for, you know, all the martial law 628 00:42:47,000 --> 00:42:50,560 Speaker 1: stuff that occurred when his dad was in quote office 629 00:42:51,160 --> 00:42:54,879 Speaker 1: and or just in charge. It's very interesting how this 630 00:42:54,960 --> 00:42:59,000 Speaker 1: occurred and what, let's say, what the current administration did 631 00:42:59,160 --> 00:43:01,960 Speaker 1: to get where they are right now. Yeah. You you 632 00:43:02,040 --> 00:43:06,600 Speaker 1: might recall, folks, Emelda Marcos I am E. L. D. 633 00:43:06,800 --> 00:43:13,480 Speaker 1: A famous for huge shoe collection, which is some for 634 00:43:13,560 --> 00:43:16,640 Speaker 1: some reason, that's what the international media of the time 635 00:43:17,200 --> 00:43:22,080 Speaker 1: chose to focus on. But the Marcos, the Marcos dictatorship 636 00:43:22,200 --> 00:43:30,520 Speaker 1: from nineteen six to six embezzled billions of dollars, billions 637 00:43:30,520 --> 00:43:35,600 Speaker 1: of dollars from the government and therefore the people of 638 00:43:35,640 --> 00:43:41,560 Speaker 1: the country, while the average average folks in the Philippines 639 00:43:41,600 --> 00:43:48,160 Speaker 1: were struggling under the yoke of oppression, imperialism, corruption. Even now, 640 00:43:49,200 --> 00:43:53,240 Speaker 1: even now, the Philippines is one of the most dangerous 641 00:43:53,280 --> 00:44:02,399 Speaker 1: countries for journalists and for a while, understandably so, everybody 642 00:44:02,400 --> 00:44:07,600 Speaker 1: post Marcos regime hated this guy, you know, like he's 643 00:44:08,480 --> 00:44:12,960 Speaker 1: he's a super dick. He robbed, he robbed people, he 644 00:44:13,080 --> 00:44:16,560 Speaker 1: robbed people, he killed people. He made our country broke. 645 00:44:17,320 --> 00:44:23,040 Speaker 1: Until recently his son successfully ran for president, and you 646 00:44:23,080 --> 00:44:28,920 Speaker 1: can see those institutional attempts at changing history and memory 647 00:44:29,640 --> 00:44:37,640 Speaker 1: first always in media, and sadly enough, it often begins 648 00:44:37,760 --> 00:44:41,320 Speaker 1: with children. I want to shout out the writing team 649 00:44:41,400 --> 00:44:45,799 Speaker 1: over it last week tonight. They recently did a top 650 00:44:45,880 --> 00:44:50,120 Speaker 1: notch job depicting this paradigm shift. In real time. You 651 00:44:50,160 --> 00:44:56,160 Speaker 1: will see school children in in the Philippines who are 652 00:44:57,040 --> 00:45:02,680 Speaker 1: now being rewarded for going on camera and saying martial 653 00:45:02,760 --> 00:45:10,520 Speaker 1: law improved our country. The removal of rights to free speech, 654 00:45:10,600 --> 00:45:14,560 Speaker 1: the removal of safety of dissent, things like that that 655 00:45:14,719 --> 00:45:18,160 Speaker 1: made the country a better place. And it's and it's 656 00:45:18,560 --> 00:45:23,160 Speaker 1: edit me here, Paul, it's terrible, it's unclean. Children are 657 00:45:23,280 --> 00:45:28,640 Speaker 1: easy pickings for this sort of large scale memory manipulation 658 00:45:28,920 --> 00:45:33,880 Speaker 1: because they might not have firsthand sensory experience of these 659 00:45:33,920 --> 00:45:39,040 Speaker 1: past events. And no, Matt, you guys have children, and 660 00:45:39,640 --> 00:45:47,040 Speaker 1: you must be aware surely of how easily steered opinions 661 00:45:47,080 --> 00:45:50,600 Speaker 1: can be when you start from the young and then 662 00:45:50,680 --> 00:45:53,560 Speaker 1: you just build up from there. It's a pyramid scheme. 663 00:45:53,800 --> 00:45:56,760 Speaker 1: I mean, I agree with you. I also think these days, 664 00:45:56,840 --> 00:45:59,560 Speaker 1: like older people are a little more easily manipulated than 665 00:45:59,600 --> 00:46:02,520 Speaker 1: the young. You know, like, I think younger generations are 666 00:46:02,520 --> 00:46:05,560 Speaker 1: more in tune to this type of thing and are 667 00:46:05,719 --> 00:46:08,839 Speaker 1: more aware of it when it's happening than you know, 668 00:46:09,160 --> 00:46:11,879 Speaker 1: maybe some more older set in their ways people are 669 00:46:11,920 --> 00:46:15,440 Speaker 1: who want that that brain wanting to like feel good 670 00:46:15,440 --> 00:46:18,319 Speaker 1: and make them feel good about their opinions. They're much 671 00:46:18,880 --> 00:46:22,239 Speaker 1: more easily preyed on by these changing narratives, you know, 672 00:46:22,360 --> 00:46:25,160 Speaker 1: through the quote unquote fake news, you know, but not 673 00:46:25,320 --> 00:46:28,080 Speaker 1: the way that some people use that expression, not to 674 00:46:28,120 --> 00:46:30,000 Speaker 1: get on a political soapbox or anything. I just do 675 00:46:30,120 --> 00:46:32,279 Speaker 1: feel like there are certain folks that don't want to 676 00:46:32,360 --> 00:46:36,840 Speaker 1: question things, whereas I feel like kids my daughter's age 677 00:46:36,880 --> 00:46:40,600 Speaker 1: and generation um are constantly questioning things and are very 678 00:46:40,680 --> 00:46:45,200 Speaker 1: aware of being manipulated and won't stand for it. Yeah, 679 00:46:45,280 --> 00:46:49,560 Speaker 1: but at the same time, they're being manipulated like crazy 680 00:46:49,680 --> 00:46:54,439 Speaker 1: and they don't know it. They don't know, but there's 681 00:46:54,560 --> 00:46:58,440 Speaker 1: there's like micro and macro manipulations going on here. In 682 00:46:58,480 --> 00:47:01,000 Speaker 1: this case, we're talking about a nation's memory right in 683 00:47:01,040 --> 00:47:03,400 Speaker 1: a weird way on the individual level, but it's a 684 00:47:03,440 --> 00:47:07,680 Speaker 1: country's memory, and you're talking about the regime ended in 685 00:47:09,840 --> 00:47:13,239 Speaker 1: so you think about the voting age people uh on 686 00:47:13,840 --> 00:47:17,399 Speaker 1: many of whom were born after that date probably don't 687 00:47:17,400 --> 00:47:22,120 Speaker 1: have any real memory of this regime at all. It's 688 00:47:22,160 --> 00:47:24,640 Speaker 1: just what they've read, what they've seen, and stories that 689 00:47:24,680 --> 00:47:28,360 Speaker 1: they've heard from people around them. And it is interesting 690 00:47:28,360 --> 00:47:33,279 Speaker 1: that we can collectively generate an individual's memory through collective 691 00:47:33,680 --> 00:47:40,200 Speaker 1: memory and recall. The brain wants to be right. Your 692 00:47:40,320 --> 00:47:44,640 Speaker 1: brain is always right. It must always be correct. It 693 00:47:44,800 --> 00:47:53,360 Speaker 1: is heretical for your consciousness to pose conflicting information to 694 00:47:53,520 --> 00:47:56,200 Speaker 1: your brain. It's pissed. It's got a lot of other 695 00:47:56,280 --> 00:47:59,080 Speaker 1: stuff to do. It's like, hey, I'm keeping your breathing, 696 00:47:59,239 --> 00:48:01,640 Speaker 1: I'm keeping your aren't beaten? Why are you coming around 697 00:48:01,680 --> 00:48:04,600 Speaker 1: with all these problems. That's why we have stuff like 698 00:48:04,680 --> 00:48:10,400 Speaker 1: the Mandela or Mandela effect, Right, that's why people's brains 699 00:48:10,440 --> 00:48:15,280 Speaker 1: are so intransigent about things like whether it was shock 700 00:48:15,640 --> 00:48:22,080 Speaker 1: or whether it was Sinbad in Kazam or Shazam. And 701 00:48:22,200 --> 00:48:24,440 Speaker 1: this goes on. I gotta get it right though it 702 00:48:24,520 --> 00:48:30,400 Speaker 1: was it was definitely Shack in Kazam. Right, there is 703 00:48:30,480 --> 00:48:34,319 Speaker 1: no Chosam starring Sinbad. Just don't even worry about it. 704 00:48:34,360 --> 00:48:38,720 Speaker 1: But okay, we've always been a war with your East Asia, 705 00:48:39,360 --> 00:48:43,000 Speaker 1: So there's a there's another part here, let's talk about Russia. 706 00:48:43,080 --> 00:48:47,600 Speaker 1: Let's talk about memories in Russia on an institutional level. Yeah, 707 00:48:47,600 --> 00:48:50,600 Speaker 1: this is fascinating in something that and we've talked about 708 00:48:50,600 --> 00:48:52,920 Speaker 1: recently in some Strange News episodes as a couple of 709 00:48:53,200 --> 00:48:56,880 Speaker 1: angles for looking at this, but one uh involves thinking 710 00:48:56,880 --> 00:48:59,759 Speaker 1: back to the days of the USSR, when Ukraine was 711 00:49:00,239 --> 00:49:03,720 Speaker 1: you know, raised up as a thriving example of how 712 00:49:04,000 --> 00:49:08,359 Speaker 1: you know, a having a distinct culture within the U 713 00:49:08,440 --> 00:49:12,320 Speaker 1: s SR was actually a benefit to Mother Russia. UM. 714 00:49:12,360 --> 00:49:14,120 Speaker 1: There was a ton of propaganda for the time that 715 00:49:14,239 --> 00:49:18,440 Speaker 1: showed that this was the spin. The USSR quote gave 716 00:49:18,560 --> 00:49:22,120 Speaker 1: the Peninsula of Crimea to the o Blast of Ukraine 717 00:49:22,160 --> 00:49:25,439 Speaker 1: as a symbol of this recognition. UH. And there aren't 718 00:49:25,480 --> 00:49:28,200 Speaker 1: a whole lot of people um in the area that 719 00:49:28,239 --> 00:49:32,040 Speaker 1: are alive to actually remember this today. UM. And therefore 720 00:49:32,080 --> 00:49:36,880 Speaker 1: you know, the narrative is much more easily changed. But 721 00:49:37,120 --> 00:49:39,360 Speaker 1: if you you know, run the tape forward to current 722 00:49:39,440 --> 00:49:43,480 Speaker 1: day May of two, UM as we record this and 723 00:49:43,480 --> 00:49:47,879 Speaker 1: you're hearing it, Um, post Soviet Russia is at war 724 00:49:48,160 --> 00:49:51,480 Speaker 1: with this former vassal. I guess you can call it 725 00:49:51,480 --> 00:49:54,760 Speaker 1: like it's a state, not rama territory. UM. Having recently 726 00:49:54,920 --> 00:49:59,640 Speaker 1: gotten control back of that same peninsula, and Russia argues 727 00:49:59,760 --> 00:50:04,120 Speaker 1: that Ukraine has always been Russian. Uh, much like Stalin, 728 00:50:04,360 --> 00:50:07,640 Speaker 1: you know, cutting and pasting people he didn't like out 729 00:50:07,640 --> 00:50:13,960 Speaker 1: of his photographs and a very impressive pre photoshop flex. Um. 730 00:50:14,040 --> 00:50:16,760 Speaker 1: It's also the same as you know, like another example 731 00:50:16,800 --> 00:50:18,520 Speaker 1: of this, I think you can see and this will 732 00:50:18,560 --> 00:50:21,800 Speaker 1: be the way we remembered in the future. I think, Um, 733 00:50:21,840 --> 00:50:26,360 Speaker 1: we talked about a children's hospital. I believe that assemble 734 00:50:26,360 --> 00:50:27,680 Speaker 1: wind know what it was. It was when we were 735 00:50:27,680 --> 00:50:31,640 Speaker 1: talking about the z U symbol is being used to 736 00:50:31,640 --> 00:50:35,680 Speaker 1: to recognize you know, pro Russian sentiment in this conflict, 737 00:50:36,000 --> 00:50:38,719 Speaker 1: and how you know they had kids trotted out from 738 00:50:38,760 --> 00:50:42,680 Speaker 1: this like children's hospital. Um, kids suffering from really awful 739 00:50:42,680 --> 00:50:46,520 Speaker 1: diseases um, cancer and such, trotted out and made into 740 00:50:46,560 --> 00:50:51,360 Speaker 1: the formation of a z and essentially being you know, 741 00:50:51,800 --> 00:50:56,160 Speaker 1: fed this narrative and truly believing it, Uh that the 742 00:50:56,239 --> 00:50:57,840 Speaker 1: same one, this is the same one here, that that 743 00:50:58,200 --> 00:51:01,440 Speaker 1: Ukraine has always been part of Russia, that this invasion 744 00:51:01,520 --> 00:51:04,680 Speaker 1: is absolutely justified. Um. And that's how we're even here 745 00:51:04,719 --> 00:51:07,360 Speaker 1: to debate. You know, it's just more about like how 746 00:51:08,000 --> 00:51:13,440 Speaker 1: can propaganda and rewriting narratives be used effectively to also 747 00:51:13,560 --> 00:51:18,600 Speaker 1: rewrite memories. Yes, yeah, and at this point, maybe asking 748 00:51:18,640 --> 00:51:23,160 Speaker 1: ourselves in the audience, Well, guys, you've established that memory 749 00:51:23,480 --> 00:51:28,720 Speaker 1: is perhaps more malleable, then I would like to think 750 00:51:29,440 --> 00:51:34,480 Speaker 1: maybe in truth, my uh my bringing the conspire a 751 00:51:34,600 --> 00:51:40,200 Speaker 1: bit for very good intentions against my idea of myself. 752 00:51:40,640 --> 00:51:45,040 Speaker 1: But why is this important? Well, it's important because this 753 00:51:45,160 --> 00:51:49,880 Speaker 1: conspiracy has happened to you. If you are listening today, 754 00:51:49,920 --> 00:51:54,120 Speaker 1: you should ask yourself why your local authorities, whether they 755 00:51:54,160 --> 00:51:59,880 Speaker 1: be political, religious, or financial, seems so adamant on opinions 756 00:52:00,160 --> 00:52:05,120 Speaker 1: and beliefs that they not so long ago appear to deride. 757 00:52:05,840 --> 00:52:10,200 Speaker 1: Why are they switching sides? Further, ask yourself about this 758 00:52:10,360 --> 00:52:14,879 Speaker 1: scene and again the setting in which you experienced this 759 00:52:14,960 --> 00:52:18,680 Speaker 1: episode today, ask yourself about the related idea of the 760 00:52:18,760 --> 00:52:24,200 Speaker 1: mandela or mandala effect barren Stein, barren Stain. It goes deeper, 761 00:52:24,800 --> 00:52:28,439 Speaker 1: perhaps most importantly, ask yourself about gas lighting. Hold those 762 00:52:28,480 --> 00:52:33,600 Speaker 1: authorities legal or otherwise accountable, do not hesitate to recall 763 00:52:33,640 --> 00:52:39,720 Speaker 1: the past. Many institutions in your world, personal and larger 764 00:52:40,480 --> 00:52:44,720 Speaker 1: as in our own world, would rather that the inconvenient 765 00:52:44,760 --> 00:52:49,400 Speaker 1: past be the stuff they don't want you to know geez, 766 00:52:49,640 --> 00:52:51,879 Speaker 1: what a ride. Well, look, hey, I got a couple 767 00:52:51,880 --> 00:52:55,600 Speaker 1: of things. While this is true things. While this is true, 768 00:52:56,320 --> 00:53:01,359 Speaker 1: remember your memory is also good often. Uh So this 769 00:53:01,440 --> 00:53:04,239 Speaker 1: isn't to say that you can't remember things and you're 770 00:53:04,239 --> 00:53:07,279 Speaker 1: wrong about all this stuff. You've got to be able 771 00:53:07,280 --> 00:53:10,719 Speaker 1: to trust yourself to a certain extent, right. I think 772 00:53:10,760 --> 00:53:14,239 Speaker 1: in this episode we're pointing out that there are issues, right, 773 00:53:14,280 --> 00:53:19,640 Speaker 1: and there can be issues. So it's often I don't know, 774 00:53:20,280 --> 00:53:22,520 Speaker 1: you just we're not saying question everything. I guess in 775 00:53:22,560 --> 00:53:24,719 Speaker 1: a way we are. But at the same time we're saying, like, 776 00:53:25,760 --> 00:53:29,120 Speaker 1: just be aware, but don't be afraid because they are 777 00:53:29,520 --> 00:53:32,480 Speaker 1: out there, like Mary lou Renner, who can do I 778 00:53:32,520 --> 00:53:38,000 Speaker 1: would say, also, don't be afraid to believe in your 779 00:53:38,520 --> 00:53:42,520 Speaker 1: your personal memory. You know, don't let that's what I 780 00:53:42,560 --> 00:53:47,799 Speaker 1: mean by gas lighting. Don't let people try to induce 781 00:53:48,840 --> 00:53:53,120 Speaker 1: some fake memory when you know what is true. The 782 00:53:53,200 --> 00:53:56,120 Speaker 1: funny thing is, though you can easily induce fake memories 783 00:53:56,120 --> 00:53:59,920 Speaker 1: into yourself. Uh is a silly example. And then I'm done. 784 00:54:00,360 --> 00:54:02,880 Speaker 1: But um, I when and saw my favorite band in 785 00:54:02,880 --> 00:54:05,560 Speaker 1: the world, Radiohead, when I was like thirteen. You know, 786 00:54:05,800 --> 00:54:08,160 Speaker 1: it was a really special concert for me in my 787 00:54:08,280 --> 00:54:12,839 Speaker 1: mind for years they opened with this particular song and 788 00:54:12,880 --> 00:54:15,200 Speaker 1: that was just the reality for me as they opened 789 00:54:15,200 --> 00:54:17,960 Speaker 1: with the song uh, a song off of The Bends 790 00:54:18,360 --> 00:54:22,600 Speaker 1: called Planet telex um Well, I recently discovered the concert 791 00:54:22,600 --> 00:54:24,360 Speaker 1: that I went to was filmed. I remember it was 792 00:54:24,400 --> 00:54:26,360 Speaker 1: filmed for MTV for this thing called Live of the 793 00:54:26,400 --> 00:54:28,640 Speaker 1: Tent Spot. So I was able to go and watch it. 794 00:54:28,680 --> 00:54:30,560 Speaker 1: Hadn't thought about it in years or and just saw this. 795 00:54:30,600 --> 00:54:33,040 Speaker 1: I was like, I wonder if that's on YouTube? Sureley was. 796 00:54:33,120 --> 00:54:34,960 Speaker 1: It was on YouTube and they did not open with 797 00:54:35,000 --> 00:54:38,600 Speaker 1: that song at all. But my mind, that is exactly 798 00:54:38,680 --> 00:54:41,680 Speaker 1: what happened. And I believed it and I um supported 799 00:54:41,680 --> 00:54:44,920 Speaker 1: it and bolstered it by telling that story. You know, 800 00:54:45,160 --> 00:54:48,080 Speaker 1: so my mind lied to me, and then I was 801 00:54:48,120 --> 00:54:51,080 Speaker 1: able to continue to reinforce that lie that I told myself, 802 00:54:51,360 --> 00:54:54,680 Speaker 1: irrelevant lie that doesn't hurt anybody, it doesn't matter. But 803 00:54:54,719 --> 00:54:57,000 Speaker 1: then I was able to present myself with the facts 804 00:54:57,400 --> 00:55:00,520 Speaker 1: and it made me. It really threw me for a loop. Yeah, 805 00:55:00,520 --> 00:55:03,240 Speaker 1: I understood. Let's put some let's put some focus on 806 00:55:03,360 --> 00:55:06,040 Speaker 1: you met do you have do you have a memory 807 00:55:06,160 --> 00:55:08,759 Speaker 1: like that or an experience like that that you're comfortable 808 00:55:08,760 --> 00:55:11,680 Speaker 1: sharing on air. Uh No, but I do want to 809 00:55:11,680 --> 00:55:15,959 Speaker 1: talk about hyperthymesia because we some people have, some people 810 00:55:15,960 --> 00:55:18,799 Speaker 1: have written to us about that, because it really is 811 00:55:19,520 --> 00:55:24,000 Speaker 1: a thing. At least there are I believe six to 812 00:55:24,160 --> 00:55:28,800 Speaker 1: ten somewhere around their cases of pure reviewed instances where 813 00:55:28,800 --> 00:55:33,799 Speaker 1: people can absolutely remember the tiniest of things about what 814 00:55:33,840 --> 00:55:36,200 Speaker 1: they did on a specific day in their life, and 815 00:55:36,239 --> 00:55:38,359 Speaker 1: you can go back through their entire life and this 816 00:55:38,400 --> 00:55:41,600 Speaker 1: person can tell you everything. Um I mentioned Mary lu 817 00:55:41,680 --> 00:55:43,879 Speaker 1: Henna is one person as an actor who was able 818 00:55:43,920 --> 00:55:47,600 Speaker 1: to do that. There. Again, just they're less than twelve 819 00:55:47,640 --> 00:55:50,440 Speaker 1: I believe documented cases out there. I know, I know 820 00:55:50,480 --> 00:55:54,400 Speaker 1: it was very very small. It is a possibility, but 821 00:55:54,520 --> 00:55:58,440 Speaker 1: it is highly unlikely that you could teach yourself to 822 00:55:58,680 --> 00:56:01,799 Speaker 1: remember things in the same way that someone you like 823 00:56:01,880 --> 00:56:06,640 Speaker 1: that can remember things. So I think sometimes the interactions 824 00:56:06,680 --> 00:56:09,319 Speaker 1: we've had with people who've written to us, uh, it's 825 00:56:09,360 --> 00:56:11,640 Speaker 1: made to seem as though this is a teachable thing, 826 00:56:11,719 --> 00:56:15,799 Speaker 1: a learned thing. It is in fact not right. Yeah, 827 00:56:16,120 --> 00:56:21,239 Speaker 1: you're spot on, there are various mnemonic techniques that one 828 00:56:21,320 --> 00:56:25,279 Speaker 1: can teach. Uh. I'm glad to have that conversation with 829 00:56:25,320 --> 00:56:28,040 Speaker 1: anyone who wants to reach out. There are various pneumonic 830 00:56:28,200 --> 00:56:33,799 Speaker 1: techniques that one can teach oneself in order to I 831 00:56:33,840 --> 00:56:37,600 Speaker 1: wouldn't say get perfect recall, as you established, Matt, that's 832 00:56:37,640 --> 00:56:43,600 Speaker 1: extraordinarily rare, But it is possible to sort of train 833 00:56:43,960 --> 00:56:47,759 Speaker 1: your body. You know, like how how if you if 834 00:56:47,800 --> 00:56:50,080 Speaker 1: you work out the right way, then you can do 835 00:56:50,120 --> 00:56:52,880 Speaker 1: a hundred push ups in six weeks. You know, you 836 00:56:52,920 --> 00:56:55,080 Speaker 1: can get to that point, and you can do the 837 00:56:55,200 --> 00:57:00,840 Speaker 1: same with memory. Practice doesn't make perfect. Practice makes practice. 838 00:57:01,560 --> 00:57:05,680 Speaker 1: That's the important thing to remember, UH, to remember. I 839 00:57:05,719 --> 00:57:09,879 Speaker 1: would also I would also say that there is an 840 00:57:10,040 --> 00:57:16,200 Speaker 1: enormous opportunity here for us collectively to look at motivations 841 00:57:16,760 --> 00:57:22,520 Speaker 1: and to look at practices of institutions. And of course 842 00:57:23,240 --> 00:57:26,000 Speaker 1: you are the best part of this show. We would 843 00:57:26,040 --> 00:57:31,480 Speaker 1: love to hear your ideas about memory. It's malleability, uh 844 00:57:31,480 --> 00:57:34,720 Speaker 1: in the way it encodes. Do you think Proost was 845 00:57:34,840 --> 00:57:39,040 Speaker 1: right in a remembrance of things past? Do you have 846 00:57:39,480 --> 00:57:43,960 Speaker 1: your own example of a memory seeming to change, whether 847 00:57:44,040 --> 00:57:48,280 Speaker 1: on a small micro scale or whether on a macro scale. 848 00:57:48,680 --> 00:57:50,400 Speaker 1: If so, we would love to hear from you. We 849 00:57:50,560 --> 00:57:53,480 Speaker 1: try to be easy to find through a variety of 850 00:57:53,880 --> 00:57:57,280 Speaker 1: UH avenues. Oh so easy you can find us all 851 00:57:57,320 --> 00:57:59,640 Speaker 1: over the internet. We are on Facebook, we are on Twitter, 852 00:57:59,760 --> 00:58:02,320 Speaker 1: and we are on YouTube at the handle Conspiracy Stuff. 853 00:58:02,360 --> 00:58:04,439 Speaker 1: Check out that YouTube channel. By the way, we've got 854 00:58:04,680 --> 00:58:07,760 Speaker 1: fun like you know, Clippy, kind of pulls from every 855 00:58:07,800 --> 00:58:10,720 Speaker 1: single new episode we do every week for your enjoyment. 856 00:58:10,760 --> 00:58:13,680 Speaker 1: You can see our giant floating heads. Uh. You can 857 00:58:13,720 --> 00:58:16,240 Speaker 1: also find us on Instagram, where we exist under the 858 00:58:16,240 --> 00:58:18,600 Speaker 1: handle Conspiracy Stuff Show. But hey, you don't have an 859 00:58:18,600 --> 00:58:20,960 Speaker 1: Internet connection, you know, like the internet computers are for 860 00:58:20,960 --> 00:58:22,640 Speaker 1: the birds. There's other ways to get in touch with 861 00:58:22,680 --> 00:58:25,080 Speaker 1: us too. Oh yes, you can pick up your phone 862 00:58:25,080 --> 00:58:27,880 Speaker 1: and use it for its intended purpose. You can call 863 00:58:28,000 --> 00:58:31,520 Speaker 1: one eight three three st d w y t K. 864 00:58:32,240 --> 00:58:34,280 Speaker 1: You will here ben in our theme song than a 865 00:58:34,320 --> 00:58:38,000 Speaker 1: beat After that point, it's all you give yourself a 866 00:58:38,000 --> 00:58:40,920 Speaker 1: cool nickname, say whatever you'd like, let us know if 867 00:58:40,920 --> 00:58:43,400 Speaker 1: we can use your voice and message on the air. 868 00:58:44,040 --> 00:58:46,720 Speaker 1: And hey, if you've got more to say than can 869 00:58:46,720 --> 00:58:50,120 Speaker 1: fit in that three minute voicemail message, why not instead 870 00:58:50,320 --> 00:58:54,160 Speaker 1: send us a good old fashioned email. We are Conspiracy 871 00:58:54,320 --> 00:59:15,880 Speaker 1: at I heart radio dot com. Stuff they Don't Want 872 00:59:15,880 --> 00:59:18,240 Speaker 1: You to Know is a production of I Heart Radio. 873 00:59:18,560 --> 00:59:20,840 Speaker 1: For more podcasts from my heart Radio, visit the i 874 00:59:20,920 --> 00:59:23,760 Speaker 1: heart Radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you listen to 875 00:59:23,840 --> 00:59:24,640 Speaker 1: your favorite shows.