1 00:00:00,400 --> 00:00:03,440 Speaker 1: Kevin was doing the Real Husbands of Hollywood, and you 2 00:00:03,480 --> 00:00:08,000 Speaker 1: want chaos, get JB. Smooth and Nelly and you and 3 00:00:08,320 --> 00:00:11,920 Speaker 1: Kevin Harden, you know, and Dwayne Martin is there and 4 00:00:11,920 --> 00:00:15,000 Speaker 1: and Boris and they have a loose idea of what's 5 00:00:15,040 --> 00:00:20,160 Speaker 1: going to be said and JB. Smooth is amazing, but 6 00:00:20,280 --> 00:00:22,640 Speaker 1: you know, I can't trust JB to say the exact 7 00:00:22,680 --> 00:00:27,040 Speaker 1: same line the exact same way twice. So you know, 8 00:00:27,200 --> 00:00:28,960 Speaker 1: like you got to really kind of have a sense 9 00:00:28,960 --> 00:00:31,160 Speaker 1: of how you think this is supposed to work, and 10 00:00:31,200 --> 00:00:35,199 Speaker 1: you can't be afraid when it's you know, does what 11 00:00:35,240 --> 00:00:39,800 Speaker 1: it does. Could you imagine doing a special that way, 12 00:00:39,840 --> 00:00:42,479 Speaker 1: a comedy special and you just have to listen. You 13 00:00:42,520 --> 00:00:45,320 Speaker 1: don't know where to go, Well find out more. Ali 14 00:00:45,400 --> 00:00:47,400 Speaker 1: Leroy on the other side of the break, and you 15 00:00:47,440 --> 00:00:49,800 Speaker 1: know you can pass forward, but Mama got to pay 16 00:00:49,840 --> 00:00:53,120 Speaker 1: these bills. Naked coming up in just a few moments. 17 00:01:03,600 --> 00:01:07,160 Speaker 1: It's the greatest and then the same connective CHAPPI and 18 00:01:07,240 --> 00:01:12,600 Speaker 1: they carry champions to be champion, A champion, they carry champion, Champion, 19 00:01:12,680 --> 00:01:17,959 Speaker 1: they carry champion. They care chap can make it. Hey, everybody, 20 00:01:18,000 --> 00:01:22,400 Speaker 1: Welcome to another edition of Naked. Today's episode for me 21 00:01:23,680 --> 00:01:26,560 Speaker 1: was very educational. I I told you all, I'm embarking 22 00:01:26,600 --> 00:01:30,040 Speaker 1: on yet again another adventure, and I'm slaying these hosting jobs. 23 00:01:30,160 --> 00:01:34,400 Speaker 1: But I as someone who considers themselves a storyteller and 24 00:01:34,520 --> 00:01:39,320 Speaker 1: a creator. Uh, this next guest is by far someone 25 00:01:39,400 --> 00:01:43,000 Speaker 1: who can talk about the process to creative process. I 26 00:01:43,160 --> 00:01:45,600 Speaker 1: often try to have people in front of the camera 27 00:01:45,720 --> 00:01:48,560 Speaker 1: and behind the scenes so you can feel like you 28 00:01:48,800 --> 00:01:52,800 Speaker 1: understand what it takes to be successful. You can understand 29 00:01:52,840 --> 00:01:55,240 Speaker 1: what it takes to be a human for that matter, 30 00:01:55,400 --> 00:01:58,320 Speaker 1: right to be completely honest. And usually creatives do that. 31 00:01:58,640 --> 00:02:01,840 Speaker 1: They come with a lot of raw all honesty, and 32 00:02:01,960 --> 00:02:06,080 Speaker 1: our guest, Ali le Roy has done exactly that. Television producer, director, writer, 33 00:02:06,240 --> 00:02:10,200 Speaker 1: actor from the Shy joins us some of his most 34 00:02:10,320 --> 00:02:13,959 Speaker 1: notable work. Some of his most known work, let me 35 00:02:14,000 --> 00:02:17,440 Speaker 1: correct myself, could be with The Chris Rock Show. He 36 00:02:17,639 --> 00:02:21,040 Speaker 1: wrote a few episodes, was a supervising producer on that 37 00:02:21,080 --> 00:02:23,079 Speaker 1: show that was the HBO late night talk show. He 38 00:02:23,200 --> 00:02:28,520 Speaker 1: also directed episodes of Obviously what everyone knows is Everybody 39 00:02:28,600 --> 00:02:31,720 Speaker 1: Hates Chris Rock. And I just added to Chris Rock 40 00:02:31,760 --> 00:02:34,200 Speaker 1: because it's not actually called Everybody Hates Chris Rock, as 41 00:02:34,240 --> 00:02:38,520 Speaker 1: everybody hates Chris and he worked and created that with Chris, 42 00:02:38,600 --> 00:02:41,919 Speaker 1: and I thought that was something super special. Uh, you 43 00:02:42,040 --> 00:02:45,240 Speaker 1: guys know that changed and launched so many careers, Bernie 44 00:02:45,320 --> 00:02:47,960 Speaker 1: Max everyone And by the way, side note, Bernie Mac 45 00:02:48,080 --> 00:02:50,519 Speaker 1: was already hustling and winning. I want to put that in, 46 00:02:50,760 --> 00:02:53,560 Speaker 1: but it became quote unquote mainstream to know who he 47 00:02:53,840 --> 00:02:56,079 Speaker 1: was and and he's been introduced to the world in 48 00:02:56,120 --> 00:02:59,360 Speaker 1: that way. So Ali does a lot of wonderful work, 49 00:02:59,520 --> 00:03:02,480 Speaker 1: as you'll hear him talk about in the podcast. He 50 00:03:03,000 --> 00:03:06,760 Speaker 1: directed Rail Special, which is coming up on HBO as 51 00:03:06,800 --> 00:03:10,400 Speaker 1: comedy Special. Uh, he was a comedian himself. That's how 52 00:03:10,480 --> 00:03:14,320 Speaker 1: he met Chris Rock. His resume is is long, and 53 00:03:14,639 --> 00:03:17,240 Speaker 1: his work is impressive. And when you listen to him, 54 00:03:17,360 --> 00:03:20,240 Speaker 1: especially if you're a creative, this is a master class. 55 00:03:20,280 --> 00:03:22,920 Speaker 1: I don't care if you're not a writer, director, actor, producer, 56 00:03:23,360 --> 00:03:26,120 Speaker 1: just someone who likes to tell stories. He's giving us 57 00:03:26,200 --> 00:03:28,600 Speaker 1: a master class about the process, what it looks like 58 00:03:29,280 --> 00:03:31,160 Speaker 1: and what he does to get to the truth. And 59 00:03:31,280 --> 00:03:34,200 Speaker 1: you can tell by listening to him talk. He has 60 00:03:34,200 --> 00:03:38,640 Speaker 1: an incredible amount of empathy, extremely wise, and he lives 61 00:03:38,640 --> 00:03:40,560 Speaker 1: in a space that I don't know if I can 62 00:03:41,080 --> 00:03:43,480 Speaker 1: say that I live in quite yet as a creative, 63 00:03:43,960 --> 00:03:48,440 Speaker 1: but he he's dropping gems. I like to learn from folks. 64 00:03:48,520 --> 00:03:50,720 Speaker 1: That's why I have you on the podcast. We get 65 00:03:50,800 --> 00:03:54,000 Speaker 1: into the creative process, we get into people he has 66 00:03:54,040 --> 00:03:57,320 Speaker 1: worked with, namely Chris Rock. And we also talked about 67 00:03:57,400 --> 00:03:59,400 Speaker 1: Kanye because he's from the shot and he has a 68 00:03:59,480 --> 00:04:01,920 Speaker 1: very unique perspective. And it's not so much like, oh, 69 00:04:01,960 --> 00:04:04,480 Speaker 1: I don't want to hear about Kanye anymore. It's really 70 00:04:04,600 --> 00:04:10,240 Speaker 1: about the human experience and how Kanye isn't the only 71 00:04:10,400 --> 00:04:14,400 Speaker 1: person responsible for where he is right now in terms 72 00:04:14,480 --> 00:04:18,440 Speaker 1: of society, if you will, Canceling him in air quotes 73 00:04:18,480 --> 00:04:22,720 Speaker 1: are sitting him down. And I appreciate it because, um, 74 00:04:22,839 --> 00:04:27,480 Speaker 1: it's nuanced. It's not black or white, it's gray. I 75 00:04:27,600 --> 00:04:30,560 Speaker 1: live in the gray. So everyone, welcome to the podcast. 76 00:04:30,640 --> 00:04:35,920 Speaker 1: I'll leroy, you're growing to enjoy it. You're welcome. And 77 00:04:39,040 --> 00:04:41,240 Speaker 1: first off, thank you for joining me on Naked um 78 00:04:42,160 --> 00:04:44,719 Speaker 1: and and and researching and having you on the show. 79 00:04:44,760 --> 00:04:46,280 Speaker 1: There are a few things that I wanted to talk 80 00:04:46,320 --> 00:04:48,040 Speaker 1: to you about. The First thing about you that I'm 81 00:04:48,080 --> 00:04:51,680 Speaker 1: really curious about when I talk to creatives, and especially 82 00:04:51,760 --> 00:04:55,000 Speaker 1: creatives who have a directive to tell the black story 83 00:04:55,040 --> 00:04:57,680 Speaker 1: and this totality to see as far a humanity and 84 00:04:57,760 --> 00:05:00,920 Speaker 1: not just being black folks, um I just because we are, 85 00:05:01,360 --> 00:05:05,039 Speaker 1: but the totality of who we are UM As a creative, 86 00:05:05,320 --> 00:05:07,880 Speaker 1: every project that you take on is that is that 87 00:05:08,000 --> 00:05:10,240 Speaker 1: the main goal? Not every project, but when you get 88 00:05:10,480 --> 00:05:13,360 Speaker 1: that opportunity to tell our stories, how do you go in? 89 00:05:14,000 --> 00:05:20,040 Speaker 1: UM with what mindset? I mean literally that absolutely every 90 00:05:20,080 --> 00:05:26,000 Speaker 1: single time. And it doesn't necessarily present itself as an 91 00:05:26,000 --> 00:05:30,360 Speaker 1: agenda because I just think of it as a thing 92 00:05:30,600 --> 00:05:33,000 Speaker 1: that is an eight. I mean, we our whole people. 93 00:05:33,320 --> 00:05:36,839 Speaker 1: You know, we do have wildly varying experiences and perspectives, 94 00:05:37,160 --> 00:05:40,240 Speaker 1: and we have nuanced shadings and colors, and so regardless 95 00:05:40,360 --> 00:05:45,560 Speaker 1: of whether or not the project itself is uh, you know, 96 00:05:45,640 --> 00:05:48,400 Speaker 1: sort of action oriented in terms of, you know, what 97 00:05:48,600 --> 00:05:50,480 Speaker 1: it wants the viewer to think or to feel or 98 00:05:50,520 --> 00:05:52,880 Speaker 1: respond to or what have you, you know, my goal 99 00:05:53,240 --> 00:05:57,200 Speaker 1: is just always to present you know, Black people in 100 00:05:57,839 --> 00:06:00,480 Speaker 1: uh storytelling in ways that are just you know, more 101 00:06:00,560 --> 00:06:03,360 Speaker 1: complex and more nuanced, you know, from drama all the 102 00:06:03,400 --> 00:06:06,000 Speaker 1: way over to comedy. And you know, we have varying 103 00:06:06,080 --> 00:06:11,200 Speaker 1: degrees of success, but that's always the goal right to 104 00:06:11,600 --> 00:06:14,200 Speaker 1: to it's not even painting outside the box. It's just 105 00:06:14,279 --> 00:06:17,000 Speaker 1: going into the box and using all of the things 106 00:06:17,040 --> 00:06:20,480 Speaker 1: that are available to use in there. You know, I think, 107 00:06:21,400 --> 00:06:23,200 Speaker 1: and I don't know why, it's just now in the 108 00:06:23,240 --> 00:06:25,440 Speaker 1: advent of and it may have been happening for a 109 00:06:25,600 --> 00:06:28,480 Speaker 1: very long time, but I'm just now really starting to 110 00:06:28,640 --> 00:06:32,360 Speaker 1: see roles within the last few years, um, where we 111 00:06:32,600 --> 00:06:35,840 Speaker 1: are a person as opposed to a black person. I 112 00:06:35,920 --> 00:06:39,080 Speaker 1: think of Britain and that was something interesting to me 113 00:06:39,240 --> 00:06:42,600 Speaker 1: that Shawna decided to have the male lead character black 114 00:06:42,720 --> 00:06:44,320 Speaker 1: and a lot of the and it was just smart. 115 00:06:44,400 --> 00:06:46,480 Speaker 1: I was like, Yeah, why weren't we you act as 116 00:06:46,480 --> 00:06:50,280 Speaker 1: if we did not belong until just most recently and 117 00:06:50,640 --> 00:06:54,160 Speaker 1: we were as a culture alive and well and thriving 118 00:06:54,200 --> 00:06:57,640 Speaker 1: in different times. Um. I say all that to say, 119 00:06:58,720 --> 00:07:01,120 Speaker 1: your most and it's not most recent project, but you 120 00:07:01,240 --> 00:07:07,840 Speaker 1: did American Refugee and I and when I watched, I thought, 121 00:07:09,120 --> 00:07:14,080 Speaker 1: this is a family that just so happens to be black, right, Um. 122 00:07:15,080 --> 00:07:17,320 Speaker 1: You know, when I came into that, that that project, 123 00:07:17,360 --> 00:07:20,400 Speaker 1: and I've really enjoyed it. You know, I wish we uh, 124 00:07:20,600 --> 00:07:22,480 Speaker 1: you know, as always, you know, you always wish you 125 00:07:22,520 --> 00:07:24,240 Speaker 1: had this, or you wish you had that, you wishually 126 00:07:24,280 --> 00:07:27,280 Speaker 1: had something else. Um, were you filmed during the pandemic, 127 00:07:27,360 --> 00:07:30,000 Speaker 1: so you probably were limited right to what you could mean. 128 00:07:30,280 --> 00:07:32,560 Speaker 1: There were definitely challenges in terms of type of schedule 129 00:07:32,640 --> 00:07:34,880 Speaker 1: that we had, and you know, and the uh the 130 00:07:35,040 --> 00:07:37,720 Speaker 1: model of the production was something that presented, you know, 131 00:07:37,880 --> 00:07:41,240 Speaker 1: certain types of challenges. The Buck Melters, who wrote that 132 00:07:41,320 --> 00:07:44,679 Speaker 1: original script, um, you know, I was brought on board 133 00:07:44,720 --> 00:07:47,640 Speaker 1: to to direct, so I had some conversations with them initially. 134 00:07:48,240 --> 00:07:51,520 Speaker 1: You know, in that story, both families were white, and 135 00:07:51,680 --> 00:07:55,080 Speaker 1: the story took place you know, roughly in the Pacific Northwest, 136 00:07:55,680 --> 00:07:59,720 Speaker 1: and we actually had to shoot in the southeast, so 137 00:08:00,000 --> 00:08:03,560 Speaker 1: there's no Northwest landscapes in the southeast. So it's like, okay, uh, 138 00:08:03,760 --> 00:08:06,480 Speaker 1: if we're having a story about the collapse of society 139 00:08:06,600 --> 00:08:09,200 Speaker 1: that's happening in a physical place that resembles the southeast, 140 00:08:09,480 --> 00:08:12,440 Speaker 1: there should be some black people. So we went back 141 00:08:12,480 --> 00:08:15,239 Speaker 1: and forth about what the nature of those uh characters 142 00:08:15,280 --> 00:08:17,760 Speaker 1: could look like and what the dynamics could be. What 143 00:08:17,880 --> 00:08:19,440 Speaker 1: if this is a black person in his family could 144 00:08:19,520 --> 00:08:21,280 Speaker 1: be the husband and dads should have been the kid. 145 00:08:21,600 --> 00:08:23,520 Speaker 1: You know, we had all of those kind of conversations 146 00:08:23,840 --> 00:08:25,720 Speaker 1: and just kind of came out of this space where 147 00:08:25,880 --> 00:08:27,800 Speaker 1: you know, we created. But I thought was a very 148 00:08:27,840 --> 00:08:31,600 Speaker 1: strong balance of of a family that is, you know, 149 00:08:31,880 --> 00:08:35,560 Speaker 1: tossed into some incredible circumstances and have to you know, uh, 150 00:08:35,640 --> 00:08:38,760 Speaker 1: depend on their ingenuity and each other entrusted love to 151 00:08:39,280 --> 00:08:42,360 Speaker 1: you know, to get themselves through. So that that's what 152 00:08:42,480 --> 00:08:46,040 Speaker 1: the exercise was. It was beautiful. Um. Anyway, you guys 153 00:08:46,040 --> 00:08:48,640 Speaker 1: should watch it for the listening. Um. It was with Eric, 154 00:08:48,920 --> 00:08:51,800 Speaker 1: Eric Alexander and Derek what's Derek's last name is Escapes 155 00:08:52,120 --> 00:08:56,000 Speaker 1: right now, Derek Luke, I say, lamb, that's an actual athlete. 156 00:08:56,280 --> 00:09:00,600 Speaker 1: So Derek Luke and h and Erica Alexander. It's available, 157 00:09:00,720 --> 00:09:02,840 Speaker 1: you can rent it, you can buy it. It's everywhere. 158 00:09:02,960 --> 00:09:06,040 Speaker 1: It was an excellent piece of work. I'm not um 159 00:09:06,600 --> 00:09:10,960 Speaker 1: surprised because I think most people, if in the industry, 160 00:09:11,080 --> 00:09:14,520 Speaker 1: would know you from working with Chris Rock and creating 161 00:09:14,559 --> 00:09:17,280 Speaker 1: some of our narrating some of our great moments. You 162 00:09:17,360 --> 00:09:19,600 Speaker 1: worked on the Chris Rock Talk Show and then ultimately 163 00:09:19,679 --> 00:09:23,480 Speaker 1: Everybody Hates Chris and then ultimately an animated version coming Now. 164 00:09:24,160 --> 00:09:27,120 Speaker 1: I am curious about the relationship between you and Chris 165 00:09:27,280 --> 00:09:30,000 Speaker 1: Rock and how that was able to formulate. I couldn't 166 00:09:30,040 --> 00:09:33,560 Speaker 1: imagine um walking into a room and talking to someone 167 00:09:33,600 --> 00:09:37,319 Speaker 1: who I find to be an utter genius and and 168 00:09:37,480 --> 00:09:43,240 Speaker 1: having this immediate connection. Because people who commit in specifically 169 00:09:43,280 --> 00:09:45,600 Speaker 1: I think of him and Dave Chappelle, they think differently. 170 00:09:45,679 --> 00:09:47,920 Speaker 1: They're just on a whole another stratosphere. And where in 171 00:09:47,960 --> 00:09:51,480 Speaker 1: the way in which they move. Well, I don't know 172 00:09:51,520 --> 00:09:52,959 Speaker 1: if you know that I was a stand up for 173 00:09:53,040 --> 00:09:56,559 Speaker 1: a number of years. I didn't know that. Is that 174 00:09:56,640 --> 00:09:59,120 Speaker 1: how you met Chris? I met christahen I was gonna 175 00:09:59,120 --> 00:10:02,079 Speaker 1: stand up me. So you were doing stand up? It 176 00:10:02,559 --> 00:10:06,000 Speaker 1: met Chris in New York in uh like mid to 177 00:10:06,160 --> 00:10:09,319 Speaker 1: late eighties something like that. Uh, you know, and this 178 00:10:09,480 --> 00:10:11,960 Speaker 1: is before he broke you know, Chris was still doing 179 00:10:12,080 --> 00:10:15,280 Speaker 1: you know, late nights at the Gosh. I can't even remember. 180 00:10:15,440 --> 00:10:17,160 Speaker 1: You know, we had stand up New York back then. 181 00:10:17,760 --> 00:10:21,679 Speaker 1: We had Catcherrizing Star and Infolution Holds Club. I just 182 00:10:21,760 --> 00:10:23,880 Speaker 1: can't remember the name of it. Right, Was this before 183 00:10:24,320 --> 00:10:26,840 Speaker 1: Chris Rock stand up Spike Lee where he was a crackhead? 184 00:10:26,960 --> 00:10:29,760 Speaker 1: This is before then? Oh that before New Jack City. Yeah, 185 00:10:29,760 --> 00:10:34,240 Speaker 1: this is before New Jack City. Yeah, I met I 186 00:10:34,360 --> 00:10:39,760 Speaker 1: met broke Chris Rock. Let me for to tell you 187 00:10:39,880 --> 00:10:43,360 Speaker 1: like that, because I mean I didn't want to say 188 00:10:43,400 --> 00:10:45,120 Speaker 1: that I was gonna say something else. So we knew 189 00:10:45,320 --> 00:10:49,560 Speaker 1: we wrote Chris Rock. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, that's how long 190 00:10:49,600 --> 00:10:52,079 Speaker 1: I've known Chris. Uh yeah, I mean we met on 191 00:10:52,120 --> 00:10:54,839 Speaker 1: the club circuit. I was actually with a comedy group 192 00:10:55,000 --> 00:10:58,480 Speaker 1: at the time, and I'm from Chicago and one of 193 00:10:58,520 --> 00:11:00,040 Speaker 1: the things that you know, I guess we were and 194 00:11:00,240 --> 00:11:02,520 Speaker 1: you know, we we were doing that thing. Uh and 195 00:11:02,760 --> 00:11:06,199 Speaker 1: you know, Chris was certainly doing his thing, which was fantastic. Um. 196 00:11:06,920 --> 00:11:09,160 Speaker 1: But I think one of the things that he found 197 00:11:09,280 --> 00:11:14,520 Speaker 1: interesting about me was that I wasn't from New York, right, 198 00:11:14,840 --> 00:11:17,240 Speaker 1: So you know, he got on the train to come, 199 00:11:17,840 --> 00:11:19,760 Speaker 1: you know, to the to the comedy clubs in the city. 200 00:11:19,800 --> 00:11:21,800 Speaker 1: You know, I had to drive a car, you know, 201 00:11:21,960 --> 00:11:24,679 Speaker 1: eight hundred miles and then hope for the best of 202 00:11:24,720 --> 00:11:26,360 Speaker 1: all that stuff. Not that he didn't have those sorts 203 00:11:26,360 --> 00:11:28,840 Speaker 1: of experiences, So you know, I just think he thought 204 00:11:29,120 --> 00:11:33,440 Speaker 1: that particular thing was interesting. And then you know, you talk, right, 205 00:11:33,520 --> 00:11:35,480 Speaker 1: you know, you talk and you kind of start to 206 00:11:35,520 --> 00:11:37,040 Speaker 1: find out, you know, you're kind of interesting. You got 207 00:11:37,120 --> 00:11:39,079 Speaker 1: these ideas you know, here's the stuff that you like. 208 00:11:39,240 --> 00:11:42,520 Speaker 1: Here is what I like. Uh. The next big encounter 209 00:11:42,679 --> 00:11:44,640 Speaker 1: after meeting Chris that I would have with him was 210 00:11:44,800 --> 00:11:48,839 Speaker 1: I was on a comedy show. Uh. It was the 211 00:11:49,000 --> 00:11:53,160 Speaker 1: Miller Light Comedy Competition was a big deal back in 212 00:11:53,240 --> 00:11:56,199 Speaker 1: the day. And um, and and I was in that 213 00:11:56,360 --> 00:11:59,800 Speaker 1: competition on a big show in Chicago at the park 214 00:12:00,120 --> 00:12:04,319 Speaker 1: S Theater at the time, and uh, Chris was hosting 215 00:12:04,440 --> 00:12:07,119 Speaker 1: the show. And they were like, you know, four comedians, 216 00:12:07,200 --> 00:12:10,040 Speaker 1: you know, uh, buying for the final prize whatever. Chris 217 00:12:10,120 --> 00:12:12,199 Speaker 1: host that show, and you know, that was just another 218 00:12:12,240 --> 00:12:14,000 Speaker 1: one of these opportunities where you know, we got a 219 00:12:14,080 --> 00:12:17,080 Speaker 1: further chance to you know, just to connect and and hanging. 220 00:12:17,240 --> 00:12:19,439 Speaker 1: You know, over time we just kind of it's like, Okay, 221 00:12:19,920 --> 00:12:22,439 Speaker 1: you know I get his vibe. You know, he respects 222 00:12:22,480 --> 00:12:24,040 Speaker 1: what I do in terms of writing and where I 223 00:12:24,120 --> 00:12:26,400 Speaker 1: was coming from in terms of the humor, and and 224 00:12:26,440 --> 00:12:29,520 Speaker 1: then just life. You know, you're meeting smart black people, 225 00:12:29,640 --> 00:12:32,400 Speaker 1: you know, two smart black men who have these wildly 226 00:12:32,559 --> 00:12:36,240 Speaker 1: varying influences from you know, Woody Allen to the Marx 227 00:12:36,280 --> 00:12:38,880 Speaker 1: Brothers and and and Mighty Python. But then also you 228 00:12:38,920 --> 00:12:42,760 Speaker 1: know Mom's maybe and and Dick Gregory and it's exciting 229 00:12:42,800 --> 00:12:46,960 Speaker 1: to you know, to have those kind of conversations, you know. So, um, yeah, yeah, 230 00:12:47,640 --> 00:12:51,280 Speaker 1: that's how you all met. Yeah. I have a question 231 00:12:51,480 --> 00:12:54,560 Speaker 1: about comedians, and I have a question about that, about 232 00:12:54,600 --> 00:12:59,120 Speaker 1: the relationship that I find very fascinating. My one of 233 00:12:59,160 --> 00:13:01,760 Speaker 1: my really close friends for a long time, UM worked 234 00:13:01,800 --> 00:13:04,560 Speaker 1: at NBC and it was a part of their diversity 235 00:13:04,559 --> 00:13:07,400 Speaker 1: initiative to look for different comedians, and I would oftentimes 236 00:13:07,440 --> 00:13:08,959 Speaker 1: go with her to the comedy store here in l 237 00:13:09,000 --> 00:13:11,880 Speaker 1: A where I live. UM and I would see these comedians, 238 00:13:11,920 --> 00:13:15,360 Speaker 1: these up and coming comedians, and they would go on 239 00:13:15,520 --> 00:13:17,439 Speaker 1: stage and I didn't you know, I don't, I didn't 240 00:13:17,440 --> 00:13:19,760 Speaker 1: know the world. But when I see them years because 241 00:13:19,920 --> 00:13:22,240 Speaker 1: years later, because it takes twenty years to to be 242 00:13:22,320 --> 00:13:24,360 Speaker 1: the new hot thing, right you You're you're busting your 243 00:13:24,360 --> 00:13:26,640 Speaker 1: balls for ten years and then all of a sudden, 244 00:13:26,679 --> 00:13:28,280 Speaker 1: you pop and they're like you just popped on the scene. 245 00:13:28,280 --> 00:13:30,880 Speaker 1: You're like, now I've been I've been here. So it 246 00:13:31,280 --> 00:13:35,800 Speaker 1: was before um, Kevin Hart was Kevin Hart. Um, it 247 00:13:36,160 --> 00:13:40,080 Speaker 1: was before, you know. And may he rest in peace. 248 00:13:40,160 --> 00:13:42,840 Speaker 1: David Arnold was really known to a lot of people, 249 00:13:43,559 --> 00:13:47,400 Speaker 1: and I was always so fascinated and what was the 250 00:13:47,520 --> 00:13:52,040 Speaker 1: recipe for who I In terms of when is it 251 00:13:52,120 --> 00:13:56,240 Speaker 1: your time to pop as a comedian? I'm always fascinated 252 00:13:56,320 --> 00:14:00,719 Speaker 1: by that. Is it just time and opportunity? Well, I mean, 253 00:14:01,600 --> 00:14:05,920 Speaker 1: you know, there's a lot of variables, right, um, because 254 00:14:06,040 --> 00:14:08,440 Speaker 1: you know the time to pop the you know, when 255 00:14:08,480 --> 00:14:13,559 Speaker 1: you're naming three or four comedians out of the the 256 00:14:13,840 --> 00:14:17,959 Speaker 1: actual literal thousands that are available to pick from. You know, 257 00:14:18,200 --> 00:14:21,640 Speaker 1: even when you rise to the level of being you know, 258 00:14:21,840 --> 00:14:25,200 Speaker 1: a known entity, you know, headlining clubs, you know, traveling, 259 00:14:25,280 --> 00:14:28,720 Speaker 1: maybe making a few television appearances, like that's a that's 260 00:14:29,200 --> 00:14:33,680 Speaker 1: a really incredible plateau to reach where you're actually you know, 261 00:14:33,760 --> 00:14:37,280 Speaker 1: you have a vibrant, a live career as a stand 262 00:14:37,400 --> 00:14:40,080 Speaker 1: up comedian. That's your job. And if you don't do 263 00:14:40,320 --> 00:14:43,520 Speaker 1: anything else, if you don't do if you don't get 264 00:14:43,560 --> 00:14:46,080 Speaker 1: a sitcom, if you don't get in a movie, you know, 265 00:14:47,040 --> 00:14:49,200 Speaker 1: you'll still have a career, you still have a life. 266 00:14:49,240 --> 00:14:52,720 Speaker 1: So that's that's like the baseline of successful comedians, right 267 00:14:53,000 --> 00:14:55,960 Speaker 1: And I think David Arnold's is a fantastic example of that. 268 00:14:56,440 --> 00:14:59,240 Speaker 1: You know, he never necessarily, you know, broke through in 269 00:14:59,320 --> 00:15:02,480 Speaker 1: the biggest a but he had some really you know, 270 00:15:02,640 --> 00:15:04,800 Speaker 1: great successes. You know, he had a couple of specials. 271 00:15:05,120 --> 00:15:07,760 Speaker 1: You know, I know, he created a show, but his 272 00:15:07,960 --> 00:15:12,200 Speaker 1: visibility and and his name brand as a comedian, you know, 273 00:15:12,720 --> 00:15:15,080 Speaker 1: wasn't as big as you know, of course as a 274 00:15:15,160 --> 00:15:17,360 Speaker 1: David or or Kevin. But he's got a great life 275 00:15:17,400 --> 00:15:19,920 Speaker 1: and very successful. So that's one level of it. And 276 00:15:20,000 --> 00:15:22,880 Speaker 1: in a manner of speaking, even with that level of success, 277 00:15:23,040 --> 00:15:29,240 Speaker 1: he didn't pop correct that like that never happened, right, 278 00:15:29,560 --> 00:15:32,800 Speaker 1: But on the flip side, you have a you know, 279 00:15:32,920 --> 00:15:37,400 Speaker 1: you have a Gerad Carmichael, right, who is kind of 280 00:15:37,520 --> 00:15:42,320 Speaker 1: a young phenom, and so the pop happens early. Right, Oh, 281 00:15:42,440 --> 00:15:44,880 Speaker 1: there's a guy that's not doing what the other guys 282 00:15:44,920 --> 00:15:46,920 Speaker 1: are doing in the way that they're doing it. So 283 00:15:47,080 --> 00:15:49,000 Speaker 1: then it's kind of like all eyes on this sort 284 00:15:49,040 --> 00:15:52,360 Speaker 1: of unique figure. And to the extent that you know, 285 00:15:52,480 --> 00:15:54,920 Speaker 1: he had that moment where he you know, pops through 286 00:15:54,960 --> 00:15:57,680 Speaker 1: and burst into the you know, the vernacular in the 287 00:15:57,760 --> 00:16:02,320 Speaker 1: conversation about stand up and our creativity, he continued on 288 00:16:02,440 --> 00:16:05,760 Speaker 1: in a way that continued to explore that creativity. What 289 00:16:05,920 --> 00:16:11,200 Speaker 1: he just did with Rathaniel was amazing. And that's after 290 00:16:11,800 --> 00:16:15,680 Speaker 1: you know, like almost ten years of working in the 291 00:16:15,760 --> 00:16:19,440 Speaker 1: public eye and then getting to a point where you know, 292 00:16:19,600 --> 00:16:22,640 Speaker 1: now I'm actually doing something that you know that's going 293 00:16:22,760 --> 00:16:24,960 Speaker 1: to have a great impact because you know it's award 294 00:16:25,000 --> 00:16:28,200 Speaker 1: winning and it's attacking his material in a way. And 295 00:16:28,800 --> 00:16:33,000 Speaker 1: you know, just one more I just directed uh Little 296 00:16:33,040 --> 00:16:36,440 Speaker 1: Rel's HBO special which is uh, which is about to 297 00:16:36,520 --> 00:16:43,360 Speaker 1: hear thank you, and even Rel like Real's He's, He's, he's, 298 00:16:43,520 --> 00:16:46,280 Speaker 1: he's Uh. You know, he's a recurring figure in a 299 00:16:46,400 --> 00:16:48,120 Speaker 1: in a bunch of great movies. We've seen him. He 300 00:16:48,200 --> 00:16:51,040 Speaker 1: keeps popping up all over the place. He's had two specials, 301 00:16:51,080 --> 00:16:52,760 Speaker 1: He's been on a number of series. He's had his 302 00:16:52,840 --> 00:16:56,080 Speaker 1: own series. He was on The Car Michaels and rail 303 00:16:57,120 --> 00:17:01,040 Speaker 1: still hasn't popped. What does that mean? I said it, 304 00:17:01,160 --> 00:17:04,600 Speaker 1: But what does pop mean? It's the Chris Rock moment 305 00:17:04,760 --> 00:17:10,359 Speaker 1: that happens when he does, um bring the pain, right 306 00:17:10,760 --> 00:17:14,840 Speaker 1: when Chris does bring the pain. He's been you know, 307 00:17:14,960 --> 00:17:16,919 Speaker 1: he's he's been on a on a number of shows. 308 00:17:17,000 --> 00:17:18,800 Speaker 1: You know, he's been in the public eye. He's been 309 00:17:18,800 --> 00:17:21,000 Speaker 1: in some movies, he's done some things. But as they 310 00:17:21,080 --> 00:17:23,880 Speaker 1: stand up on that stage in that moment he comes 311 00:17:23,960 --> 00:17:28,480 Speaker 1: up with a piece that you know, like takes the 312 00:17:28,560 --> 00:17:33,000 Speaker 1: audience by storm, right, And we also weren't inundated with 313 00:17:33,320 --> 00:17:36,320 Speaker 1: quite as many comedians and quite as many you know, 314 00:17:36,800 --> 00:17:39,600 Speaker 1: outlets for comedy at the time, So you know, when 315 00:17:39,640 --> 00:17:42,040 Speaker 1: you got everybody's attention, just like the level that you're 316 00:17:42,080 --> 00:17:46,040 Speaker 1: working on is a is a higher level. But it's 317 00:17:46,080 --> 00:17:49,080 Speaker 1: not until bring the Pain that, uh, you know that 318 00:17:49,200 --> 00:17:51,200 Speaker 1: he does a routine which was the Niggers and Black 319 00:17:51,200 --> 00:17:54,960 Speaker 1: People routine, which just like you know, everybody's head goes 320 00:17:55,080 --> 00:18:00,640 Speaker 1: like this. After that in my metric, after that, Chris 321 00:18:00,800 --> 00:18:05,400 Speaker 1: Rock becomes a star. Yeah, but at this point he's 322 00:18:05,480 --> 00:18:11,280 Speaker 1: been in New jack City, he's been he's working, he's 323 00:18:11,320 --> 00:18:15,119 Speaker 1: done all this stuff, but he's not Chris Rock yet. Okay, 324 00:18:15,200 --> 00:18:17,520 Speaker 1: So even taking that, even out of the comedy realm, 325 00:18:17,680 --> 00:18:20,239 Speaker 1: what I do, how does how does who Pops? How 326 00:18:20,280 --> 00:18:22,680 Speaker 1: does stephen A become the biggest name in sports? How 327 00:18:22,760 --> 00:18:25,440 Speaker 1: does Oprah become Oprah? Like? And I'm just saying that 328 00:18:25,640 --> 00:18:29,960 Speaker 1: in theory because you've been working significantly for so long, 329 00:18:30,160 --> 00:18:32,119 Speaker 1: is what I'm getting as you're illustrating this to me, 330 00:18:32,200 --> 00:18:35,199 Speaker 1: and I'm like, no, you're right, Tony Roight for that matter, right, 331 00:18:35,880 --> 00:18:40,600 Speaker 1: or or or guy Tory who had you have a 332 00:18:40,760 --> 00:18:44,040 Speaker 1: moment and then you and then okay, I'm still known, 333 00:18:44,160 --> 00:18:46,480 Speaker 1: I'm still working and that's my full time job. But 334 00:18:46,720 --> 00:18:51,160 Speaker 1: what what then catapults you? Is it? Is it just destiny? 335 00:18:51,359 --> 00:18:54,440 Speaker 1: Is it meant to be? How would you describe the differences? 336 00:18:54,760 --> 00:18:59,639 Speaker 1: It's it's you're talking about a moment in time, right. Uh. 337 00:19:00,480 --> 00:19:07,440 Speaker 1: Certain performers meet these unique moments in time when what 338 00:19:07,600 --> 00:19:10,760 Speaker 1: they're doing and how they're doing it meets this moment 339 00:19:11,320 --> 00:19:17,200 Speaker 1: when what they're doing is just really refreshing, you know, 340 00:19:17,400 --> 00:19:21,080 Speaker 1: in the space that it lands, and it's also situated 341 00:19:21,760 --> 00:19:24,720 Speaker 1: so that the most people can access it at the 342 00:19:24,880 --> 00:19:31,400 Speaker 1: same time. Right, it's galvanizing their galvanizing moments. Uh. There 343 00:19:31,520 --> 00:19:34,840 Speaker 1: was a there was a woman who got really popular 344 00:19:35,000 --> 00:19:40,040 Speaker 1: during the pandemic of Sarah Cooper, comedian, and I remember 345 00:19:40,280 --> 00:19:46,800 Speaker 1: she was doing so It's like, Okay, there's this incredible 346 00:19:46,880 --> 00:19:50,480 Speaker 1: moment where this woman has a particular skill, right, she 347 00:19:50,600 --> 00:19:56,320 Speaker 1: has particular access to technology. Everybody's in the house, right, 348 00:19:56,600 --> 00:19:59,399 Speaker 1: and so you know, suddenly boom, all eyes make it. 349 00:19:59,680 --> 00:20:01,239 Speaker 1: You know, okay, we can all look at her at 350 00:20:01,280 --> 00:20:03,840 Speaker 1: the same time and then Sarah Cooper gets a career 351 00:20:04,440 --> 00:20:07,520 Speaker 1: and we have yet to see, you know, how that 352 00:20:07,640 --> 00:20:09,560 Speaker 1: plays out and what other things she's gonna do. I'm 353 00:20:09,560 --> 00:20:12,359 Speaker 1: sure she's gonna do some amazing things. But the pop 354 00:20:12,480 --> 00:20:16,480 Speaker 1: moment where I got everybody's attention, you can't take that back. 355 00:20:16,520 --> 00:20:18,440 Speaker 1: So Jeannie's out of the bottle leyout. I know who 356 00:20:18,600 --> 00:20:20,240 Speaker 1: I know exactly who she is, and even if I 357 00:20:20,280 --> 00:20:22,520 Speaker 1: don't know her name, I know exactly what she did. 358 00:20:22,960 --> 00:20:24,840 Speaker 1: And so I'm like, oh, that looks like Trump girl. Yeah, 359 00:20:25,080 --> 00:20:29,359 Speaker 1: I know her. Yeah, and fame. Fame has everything to 360 00:20:29,480 --> 00:20:33,720 Speaker 1: do with reach. Right. I don't know necessarily what you 361 00:20:33,880 --> 00:20:37,359 Speaker 1: do or I haven't necessarily seen you do it, but 362 00:20:37,480 --> 00:20:43,000 Speaker 1: I know who you are. Mm hmmm mmm. But if 363 00:20:43,119 --> 00:20:46,080 Speaker 1: if Rail, yeah, if Rail had a moment that's close 364 00:20:46,160 --> 00:20:50,040 Speaker 1: to popping is and get out when he plays Rod 365 00:20:50,240 --> 00:20:53,800 Speaker 1: the brother and he's got this amazing moment at the 366 00:20:53,960 --> 00:20:56,560 Speaker 1: end of the film. Not he's funny during the film 367 00:20:56,880 --> 00:20:59,560 Speaker 1: entire film, but he's got an amazing moment at the 368 00:20:59,840 --> 00:21:04,800 Speaker 1: end to the film that rel is stapled into black 369 00:21:05,040 --> 00:21:09,920 Speaker 1: iconography forever for having this moment in the film. We 370 00:21:10,040 --> 00:21:12,280 Speaker 1: know exactly who that is. What do you do when 371 00:21:12,320 --> 00:21:16,160 Speaker 1: you have that moment. How what I'm asking is when 372 00:21:16,240 --> 00:21:19,480 Speaker 1: Chris Rock in your metric, has his moment and and 373 00:21:19,560 --> 00:21:23,480 Speaker 1: bring the pain, how does he transition and hold onto 374 00:21:23,560 --> 00:21:26,120 Speaker 1: that and take it to the next level. Dave Chappelle's 375 00:21:26,160 --> 00:21:28,280 Speaker 1: moment would be arguably when he had his Comedy Central 376 00:21:28,280 --> 00:21:32,960 Speaker 1: show right, the Dave Chappelle's show, Right, and and I 377 00:21:33,440 --> 00:21:38,199 Speaker 1: start me bona fide disappears comes back. It's been bigger? Right? 378 00:21:38,600 --> 00:21:40,600 Speaker 1: How does that happen? How do you do? How do 379 00:21:40,760 --> 00:21:44,720 Speaker 1: how in your opinion, as a comedian, and I'm not 380 00:21:44,840 --> 00:21:49,320 Speaker 1: referring to any other occupation, you're able to take these 381 00:21:49,400 --> 00:21:56,840 Speaker 1: moments and amplify well two things. Uh One, you keep 382 00:21:56,920 --> 00:22:00,560 Speaker 1: doing what you've been doing, which is, you know, exercise 383 00:22:00,600 --> 00:22:02,400 Speaker 1: and working on your craft in the way that you're 384 00:22:02,440 --> 00:22:05,160 Speaker 1: because that's how you got to the place where you are. 385 00:22:06,080 --> 00:22:09,240 Speaker 1: But the other thing that occurs is that you garner 386 00:22:09,320 --> 00:22:14,680 Speaker 1: more trust. So suddenly the ideas that I that you 387 00:22:14,800 --> 00:22:16,840 Speaker 1: might have as a comedian in terms of how to 388 00:22:17,280 --> 00:22:19,560 Speaker 1: you know, scale your career. You know, whether it's film 389 00:22:19,680 --> 00:22:23,440 Speaker 1: or television or whatever the avenues you might go into. Um, 390 00:22:24,040 --> 00:22:25,879 Speaker 1: you know that's based on the type of ideas you 391 00:22:25,960 --> 00:22:29,119 Speaker 1: have right. So if you have good ideas, but what 392 00:22:29,320 --> 00:22:32,520 Speaker 1: was problematic before is that you couldn't necessarily get support 393 00:22:32,640 --> 00:22:35,960 Speaker 1: for them because they may have been unique or outside 394 00:22:36,040 --> 00:22:40,040 Speaker 1: the box. When you prove yourself on one stage, then 395 00:22:40,800 --> 00:22:44,080 Speaker 1: you get the opportunity to start slowly pushing and expanding 396 00:22:44,119 --> 00:22:47,760 Speaker 1: into other arenas. That's the Donald Glover story, right. So 397 00:22:47,880 --> 00:22:52,240 Speaker 1: Donald Glover has done sketches on YouTube. You know, he's done, 398 00:22:52,400 --> 00:22:54,560 Speaker 1: he's done music, but he came about in a slightly 399 00:22:54,680 --> 00:23:00,200 Speaker 1: different era because advances in technology allowed him to step 400 00:23:00,240 --> 00:23:04,320 Speaker 1: into the space without the ask, so to speak. He 401 00:23:04,359 --> 00:23:06,920 Speaker 1: could put sketches up on YouTube without calling YouTube and 402 00:23:07,000 --> 00:23:09,359 Speaker 1: asking them is it okay? Will you support this? Is 403 00:23:09,400 --> 00:23:10,840 Speaker 1: like now, just put it up there. Whatever you got, 404 00:23:10,920 --> 00:23:13,320 Speaker 1: you know, and if if you get eyeballs, you get eyeballs, 405 00:23:13,640 --> 00:23:15,440 Speaker 1: you know, but that's not our problem. That's up to you. 406 00:23:15,600 --> 00:23:19,119 Speaker 1: But he got eyeballs because he's talented and you know, 407 00:23:19,240 --> 00:23:21,800 Speaker 1: he's a great comic active but he's also a great 408 00:23:21,840 --> 00:23:24,520 Speaker 1: comedian and oh ship, he's a great musician. Oh wait, 409 00:23:24,560 --> 00:23:26,040 Speaker 1: wait wait wait, he can act, he can write, you 410 00:23:26,040 --> 00:23:28,840 Speaker 1: can do all these things. And so he was always 411 00:23:28,920 --> 00:23:33,960 Speaker 1: capable of that. But the trust and the support don't 412 00:23:34,040 --> 00:23:38,520 Speaker 1: always come until you make an impact that makes somebody think, 413 00:23:38,560 --> 00:23:42,200 Speaker 1: well maybe we should follow that guy. Okay, what I'm 414 00:23:42,240 --> 00:23:46,320 Speaker 1: hearing is that you have a moment where it registers 415 00:23:46,400 --> 00:23:50,159 Speaker 1: with everyone, and you didn't become for whatever the moment is. 416 00:23:50,480 --> 00:23:52,840 Speaker 1: You can put the even quantify the time whatever you want, 417 00:23:53,119 --> 00:23:56,359 Speaker 1: a month to months, three months, a summer, a pandemic, whatever. 418 00:23:57,200 --> 00:24:00,000 Speaker 1: Then now that you have that, you have to continue 419 00:24:00,000 --> 00:24:02,320 Speaker 1: in you to use the leverage that you have because 420 00:24:02,359 --> 00:24:06,320 Speaker 1: people now know you, and then you have to trust 421 00:24:06,640 --> 00:24:09,160 Speaker 1: or they have to trust you that you'll still take 422 00:24:09,240 --> 00:24:11,239 Speaker 1: that to the next level. All the ideas that you had, 423 00:24:11,280 --> 00:24:14,040 Speaker 1: all the creativity that you had, all of those things 424 00:24:14,119 --> 00:24:16,960 Speaker 1: that have been waiting that you've been waiting for. You're like, ah, 425 00:24:17,280 --> 00:24:19,920 Speaker 1: now I'm known. Let's push all this through. And the 426 00:24:20,040 --> 00:24:23,400 Speaker 1: talent then is separated from everyone else because everyone will 427 00:24:23,440 --> 00:24:26,720 Speaker 1: have their moment, their viral moment. But then that's when 428 00:24:26,880 --> 00:24:30,440 Speaker 1: we really know who will have the longevity, who will 429 00:24:30,600 --> 00:24:35,600 Speaker 1: have their time? Right. I mean I've worked with you know, um, 430 00:24:35,880 --> 00:24:37,600 Speaker 1: you know, work with Bernie Mac for a number of 431 00:24:37,680 --> 00:24:41,080 Speaker 1: years and Bernie Mac success didn't come until late um, 432 00:24:41,720 --> 00:24:43,720 Speaker 1: you know, even when he got on on deaf jam 433 00:24:43,800 --> 00:24:48,440 Speaker 1: Bernie had a moment that popped, right, Bernie popped. Yeah, 434 00:24:49,280 --> 00:24:51,760 Speaker 1: at the time when Bernie popps, Bernie has been doing 435 00:24:51,840 --> 00:24:55,439 Speaker 1: stand up of you know, fifteen years. That overnight success, 436 00:24:55,960 --> 00:25:01,879 Speaker 1: the overnight success. Then, because he's such a unique character 437 00:25:02,440 --> 00:25:04,720 Speaker 1: in the space of comedy, he runs into brick wall 438 00:25:04,800 --> 00:25:08,720 Speaker 1: after brick wall when people who don't necessarily appreciate who 439 00:25:08,800 --> 00:25:10,440 Speaker 1: he is, what he does, or how he does it, 440 00:25:10,760 --> 00:25:13,320 Speaker 1: they try to put him in a box and tailor 441 00:25:13,440 --> 00:25:16,440 Speaker 1: what he does to what they want. It's like, no, no, no, no, 442 00:25:16,520 --> 00:25:19,600 Speaker 1: that's not how this works, right, Bernie Max gotta be 443 00:25:19,680 --> 00:25:22,360 Speaker 1: Bernie Mack so until he gets to a space where 444 00:25:22,359 --> 00:25:25,680 Speaker 1: he's able to do that thing. You know. You know, 445 00:25:25,800 --> 00:25:28,280 Speaker 1: he keeps working now, he's selling out theaters and touring 446 00:25:28,320 --> 00:25:30,320 Speaker 1: and doing the whole thing. He's not you know, he's 447 00:25:30,400 --> 00:25:33,040 Speaker 1: not losing no money, you know, being a comic. But 448 00:25:33,200 --> 00:25:36,480 Speaker 1: the industry at large hasn't necessarily found a way, you know, 449 00:25:36,680 --> 00:25:42,520 Speaker 1: to embrace and execute something that works for him, because 450 00:25:42,600 --> 00:25:43,960 Speaker 1: that's what it's got to do. At the end of 451 00:25:44,000 --> 00:25:46,440 Speaker 1: the day, even if you enjoy it, it's got to 452 00:25:46,480 --> 00:25:49,960 Speaker 1: be something that I can sustain, I can't, you know, 453 00:25:50,280 --> 00:25:54,560 Speaker 1: the first Ellen sitcom can't sustain because she's being wholly 454 00:25:54,640 --> 00:25:58,800 Speaker 1: dishonest about the character that she's playing. And as a comedian, 455 00:25:58,880 --> 00:26:02,520 Speaker 1: dishonesty is the kiss death. Like I can't I can't 456 00:26:02,560 --> 00:26:05,120 Speaker 1: be funny, you know. I can get you some chuckles, 457 00:26:05,880 --> 00:26:08,200 Speaker 1: but I can't get you the realistic joke that you're 458 00:26:08,240 --> 00:26:10,439 Speaker 1: going to get because I'm lying to you about who 459 00:26:10,520 --> 00:26:14,480 Speaker 1: I am. Yeah, and that I think it's true for 460 00:26:14,560 --> 00:26:19,119 Speaker 1: my business. Authenticity, I think for anybody nowadays wins the day, right, 461 00:26:19,440 --> 00:26:21,600 Speaker 1: if you really want to be success. I mean, I'm 462 00:26:21,640 --> 00:26:24,119 Speaker 1: sure there are some phony secrets. So it does in 463 00:26:24,160 --> 00:26:27,480 Speaker 1: the space of storytelling and human interaction if you're talking 464 00:26:27,520 --> 00:26:30,719 Speaker 1: about the connection between people and items. Maybe not necessarily, 465 00:26:30,840 --> 00:26:33,720 Speaker 1: you know, but storytelling. I don't know what the story is, yeah, 466 00:26:33,760 --> 00:26:38,600 Speaker 1: you know, but storytelling and human interaction, Okay, I have 467 00:26:38,840 --> 00:26:42,160 Speaker 1: I have to believe when you're telling me, presenting characters 468 00:26:42,200 --> 00:26:44,840 Speaker 1: of stories, of jokes or whatever it is. You know, 469 00:26:45,280 --> 00:26:47,280 Speaker 1: I want to I want I'm looking for my reflection. 470 00:26:47,320 --> 00:26:49,880 Speaker 1: I'm looking for where I see myself. I'm looking for where, 471 00:26:50,240 --> 00:26:52,680 Speaker 1: you know, the experiences that I have are being shared. No, 472 00:26:52,880 --> 00:26:55,359 Speaker 1: that's how we, you know, come together. Whether it's around 473 00:26:55,480 --> 00:26:59,639 Speaker 1: you know, crying or laughing. You know, it's these intersections 474 00:26:59,640 --> 00:27:02,479 Speaker 1: where you go, oh yeah, I experienced that. And if 475 00:27:02,520 --> 00:27:05,080 Speaker 1: I didn't experience, can you presented to me in a 476 00:27:05,200 --> 00:27:09,719 Speaker 1: way that I can imagine myself in that scenario, right, 477 00:27:10,320 --> 00:27:12,960 Speaker 1: which is again the skill of a comedian, because comedians 478 00:27:13,000 --> 00:27:15,879 Speaker 1: don't get too uh tell you the joke and then 479 00:27:16,000 --> 00:27:18,359 Speaker 1: go you had to be there, No, my job is 480 00:27:18,400 --> 00:27:21,280 Speaker 1: to bring you there there all right, So I'm gonna 481 00:27:21,280 --> 00:27:24,120 Speaker 1: stop right there. I know you are on the edge 482 00:27:24,160 --> 00:27:25,840 Speaker 1: of your seat or you're driving in your car and 483 00:27:25,880 --> 00:27:29,160 Speaker 1: you're like, why Carrie, Why, Well, we gotta pay the bills. 484 00:27:29,880 --> 00:27:31,760 Speaker 1: A young lady has to pay the bills. Were back 485 00:27:31,800 --> 00:27:34,679 Speaker 1: in a moment, hit that pass forward but like two times, 486 00:27:35,000 --> 00:27:38,040 Speaker 1: and that's it. Every champion and carry champion is to 487 00:27:38,119 --> 00:27:41,040 Speaker 1: be a champion of Champion and carry champion and carry 488 00:27:41,160 --> 00:27:44,960 Speaker 1: chapian a champion and carry chappion and carry champions and 489 00:27:45,000 --> 00:27:54,959 Speaker 1: sports and entertaining connected work. Carry champion and carry champion 490 00:27:55,080 --> 00:27:59,440 Speaker 1: is to be a champion of Champion. They carry champion, Champion, 491 00:27:59,520 --> 00:28:07,280 Speaker 1: they carry Welcome back to naked at least here giving 492 00:28:07,359 --> 00:28:10,120 Speaker 1: us all the information we need to be successful. Creatives. 493 00:28:10,200 --> 00:28:13,880 Speaker 1: But more importantly, he gives me a lesson and empathy. 494 00:28:15,119 --> 00:28:19,640 Speaker 1: You talk about storytelling, um and and human interaction. You're 495 00:28:20,119 --> 00:28:23,880 Speaker 1: you are on everybody hates Chris Rock or everybody hates 496 00:28:23,920 --> 00:28:28,399 Speaker 1: Chris um and everyone. I mean, it's a hit. Did 497 00:28:28,480 --> 00:28:31,159 Speaker 1: you know you how to get right away? I mean 498 00:28:31,560 --> 00:28:34,879 Speaker 1: I knew I liked what we were doing, you know, 499 00:28:35,000 --> 00:28:37,000 Speaker 1: me and Christal looking at stuff, and you know, and 500 00:28:37,119 --> 00:28:39,640 Speaker 1: he's laughing, and you know, and and and liking the 501 00:28:39,720 --> 00:28:41,600 Speaker 1: way that we're going about telling the story and liking 502 00:28:41,600 --> 00:28:43,480 Speaker 1: the sorts of jokes that we're coming up with. And 503 00:28:43,920 --> 00:28:46,560 Speaker 1: you know, he's pulling stories from his past, and you know, 504 00:28:46,640 --> 00:28:48,360 Speaker 1: and to the extent that I'm able to, you know, 505 00:28:48,480 --> 00:28:51,640 Speaker 1: sprinkle my touch on certain characters and scenes and scenarios. 506 00:28:52,000 --> 00:28:53,680 Speaker 1: You know, we're doing what we feel good and what 507 00:28:53,760 --> 00:28:56,760 Speaker 1: we feel strongly about, right but we're coming from very 508 00:28:56,800 --> 00:28:59,719 Speaker 1: sort of specific places. Plus two of us have a relationship, 509 00:28:59,840 --> 00:29:02,160 Speaker 1: so that made you know, that may create the music 510 00:29:02,200 --> 00:29:06,760 Speaker 1: a little bit easier. But hit, you know, I mean, 511 00:29:07,400 --> 00:29:10,160 Speaker 1: you know it was it was good some people. But 512 00:29:10,280 --> 00:29:12,640 Speaker 1: some people feel like they know they have a hit. 513 00:29:12,720 --> 00:29:14,680 Speaker 1: I've heard this before. Some people like that got something 514 00:29:14,720 --> 00:29:17,480 Speaker 1: so good, that's about to pop that and then you 515 00:29:17,800 --> 00:29:22,720 Speaker 1: didn't know what did you feel good about? Um? I 516 00:29:22,800 --> 00:29:24,520 Speaker 1: feel good about being able to, you know, to be 517 00:29:24,640 --> 00:29:26,520 Speaker 1: funny and working with a guy that I love working with, 518 00:29:26,720 --> 00:29:29,040 Speaker 1: and and creating some characters that I thought were cool. 519 00:29:29,160 --> 00:29:33,960 Speaker 1: And you know, I'm um, I'm I'm not as uh. 520 00:29:34,600 --> 00:29:39,200 Speaker 1: I don't necessarily have that commercial sensibility. You know, certain 521 00:29:39,240 --> 00:29:42,120 Speaker 1: people think in terms of constructing it's like this is 522 00:29:42,160 --> 00:29:44,040 Speaker 1: gonna be a hit, and a lot of times it 523 00:29:44,080 --> 00:29:47,520 Speaker 1: can be very very correct. You know. I remember listening 524 00:29:47,600 --> 00:29:50,920 Speaker 1: to somebody to talk about a song by Tyler the Creator. Um, 525 00:29:51,720 --> 00:29:54,840 Speaker 1: I forget the one, but but he literally said that, 526 00:29:55,120 --> 00:29:58,960 Speaker 1: you know, he's writing this song with the intention of 527 00:29:59,280 --> 00:30:02,400 Speaker 1: this is the song long where at the concert people 528 00:30:02,440 --> 00:30:04,640 Speaker 1: are gonna wave the lighters back and forth. Like he 529 00:30:04,800 --> 00:30:07,680 Speaker 1: knows that before he even writes something, I want one 530 00:30:07,720 --> 00:30:11,160 Speaker 1: of those, right. So even in going into the construction, 531 00:30:11,480 --> 00:30:14,680 Speaker 1: he's trying to hit certain you know, uh marks and 532 00:30:14,960 --> 00:30:17,440 Speaker 1: certain types of emotions. The way the chords are constructed, 533 00:30:17,520 --> 00:30:20,240 Speaker 1: like just the exact feeling that I'm looking for as 534 00:30:20,280 --> 00:30:23,360 Speaker 1: opposed to what I think we were kind of doing 535 00:30:23,480 --> 00:30:27,000 Speaker 1: with Chris is going we're just expressing the ideas that 536 00:30:27,120 --> 00:30:31,120 Speaker 1: we have and then you know they're being responded to 537 00:30:31,200 --> 00:30:34,400 Speaker 1: in a particular way, and and it happens to to work, 538 00:30:34,760 --> 00:30:37,200 Speaker 1: and it happens to you know, to connect with people 539 00:30:37,640 --> 00:30:40,480 Speaker 1: and not to say that we couldn't be you know, 540 00:30:40,760 --> 00:30:45,600 Speaker 1: more intentional about attempting to do that. But again the 541 00:30:46,000 --> 00:30:49,239 Speaker 1: connection comes from you know, literally, like it's coming from 542 00:30:49,280 --> 00:30:51,680 Speaker 1: the heart, Like we're really in this. You know, I 543 00:30:51,800 --> 00:30:54,160 Speaker 1: see my mother, I I see my dad. You know, 544 00:30:54,240 --> 00:30:56,080 Speaker 1: he sees his mother's dad, and his little brother and 545 00:30:56,120 --> 00:30:58,160 Speaker 1: his sister. I know that block. I know what it's 546 00:30:58,200 --> 00:31:01,000 Speaker 1: like to not have this money, all of these things. 547 00:31:02,200 --> 00:31:06,600 Speaker 1: I oh, I think, uh oh. And that's just what 548 00:31:06,680 --> 00:31:10,400 Speaker 1: I'm taking away. This is my takeaway, UM, is this 549 00:31:10,520 --> 00:31:13,520 Speaker 1: being true to self doing something you enjoy, but definitely 550 00:31:13,640 --> 00:31:17,080 Speaker 1: being true being as a storyteller because I am a 551 00:31:17,160 --> 00:31:19,160 Speaker 1: storyteller as well, but just in a very different way. 552 00:31:19,720 --> 00:31:23,600 Speaker 1: I want to know what is the creative process for 553 00:31:23,760 --> 00:31:27,120 Speaker 1: you as a writer, as a director, as an actor, 554 00:31:27,240 --> 00:31:30,240 Speaker 1: as a comedian when you and I'll go back to 555 00:31:30,320 --> 00:31:35,720 Speaker 1: American Refugee you come onto the project and and I 556 00:31:35,760 --> 00:31:39,560 Speaker 1: think this is even particularly interesting for um my producers 557 00:31:39,680 --> 00:31:42,400 Speaker 1: Arquis because she is a writer and a director to 558 00:31:42,720 --> 00:31:46,480 Speaker 1: write like. I hear her creative spirit turning in here. 559 00:31:46,960 --> 00:31:54,600 Speaker 1: Um is there a routine? Is there a superstition? Athletes 560 00:31:54,680 --> 00:31:56,880 Speaker 1: like to wear the same socks if they keep winning? Right? 561 00:31:57,360 --> 00:32:00,480 Speaker 1: Is there something that you do when beginning every single 562 00:32:00,560 --> 00:32:13,000 Speaker 1: project that that makes you get into this creative space? Uh? No? Um? Well, 563 00:32:15,200 --> 00:32:18,840 Speaker 1: the first thing I do is nothing. What does that mean? 564 00:32:20,560 --> 00:32:24,840 Speaker 1: What does that? Just? Just my personal? Uh? You know, 565 00:32:25,080 --> 00:32:26,680 Speaker 1: And I might I might be lying, but I don't 566 00:32:26,720 --> 00:32:34,280 Speaker 1: think I am. Um. I think I'm lying, But I 567 00:32:34,320 --> 00:32:37,200 Speaker 1: don't think I am. I think I think that it's 568 00:32:37,280 --> 00:32:42,000 Speaker 1: mostly about for me. Um. You know, I gotta, I gotta. 569 00:32:42,600 --> 00:32:44,760 Speaker 1: I have something that I have to do, and I'm 570 00:32:44,800 --> 00:32:46,880 Speaker 1: thinking about it, and I'm thinking about it. I'm sessing 571 00:32:46,920 --> 00:32:48,480 Speaker 1: over what do I do about this? What do I 572 00:32:48,520 --> 00:32:50,440 Speaker 1: do about that? What do I do about this other thing? 573 00:32:50,840 --> 00:32:52,240 Speaker 1: What does this look like? What does that look like? 574 00:32:52,320 --> 00:32:55,680 Speaker 1: And it's all thought, it's all abstract. The most, the 575 00:32:55,840 --> 00:32:58,800 Speaker 1: single most important thing for me to do when I'm 576 00:32:58,840 --> 00:33:01,920 Speaker 1: beginning to write any project is after I get done 577 00:33:01,920 --> 00:33:04,719 Speaker 1: obsessing about, you know, all of these ideas and how 578 00:33:04,800 --> 00:33:07,840 Speaker 1: they can, cannot, might or might not work I'll sit 579 00:33:07,880 --> 00:33:11,680 Speaker 1: down at the computer and then it's those first few 580 00:33:11,760 --> 00:33:18,120 Speaker 1: words interior house day, and then you just start writing 581 00:33:18,160 --> 00:33:21,240 Speaker 1: down that people are doing stuff, you know. And and 582 00:33:21,560 --> 00:33:25,720 Speaker 1: once that happens, you know, once you crack that egg shale, 583 00:33:25,760 --> 00:33:28,240 Speaker 1: it's knowing it's never going back together again. So once 584 00:33:28,320 --> 00:33:31,200 Speaker 1: I break that shale of creativity, and I started to 585 00:33:31,280 --> 00:33:35,160 Speaker 1: kind of dive into that. Now when I sit down, 586 00:33:35,360 --> 00:33:37,160 Speaker 1: I don't have to start from scratch. I can pick 587 00:33:37,240 --> 00:33:39,680 Speaker 1: up from a moment. I can explore things. You know. 588 00:33:39,920 --> 00:33:42,320 Speaker 1: Sometimes I'm writing and I'll stop and I'll start, you know, 589 00:33:42,360 --> 00:33:44,360 Speaker 1: I'll start looking up something. I'll go into a deep 590 00:33:44,400 --> 00:33:47,120 Speaker 1: research dive, you know, trying to figure out what type 591 00:33:47,160 --> 00:33:49,480 Speaker 1: of shoes people wear, you know, when they're walking on 592 00:33:49,560 --> 00:33:51,280 Speaker 1: the snow, and where do you get those from? And 593 00:33:51,320 --> 00:33:53,760 Speaker 1: how does that inform story? And you just start going 594 00:33:53,800 --> 00:33:57,000 Speaker 1: off on all these tangents. But for me, it's the 595 00:33:57,840 --> 00:34:00,440 Speaker 1: that that time's been thinking about it. Then I gotta 596 00:34:00,480 --> 00:34:03,880 Speaker 1: sit down, put something on the page. And once I 597 00:34:03,960 --> 00:34:06,719 Speaker 1: put something on the page, that kind of opens up 598 00:34:06,960 --> 00:34:12,040 Speaker 1: the flood gates. And the second part of that is 599 00:34:12,600 --> 00:34:17,560 Speaker 1: you don't stop until you're done. Um that was a 600 00:34:17,680 --> 00:34:20,880 Speaker 1: thing early on I remember talking with John Ridley, who 601 00:34:21,120 --> 00:34:24,080 Speaker 1: I'm you know, if I could, if you know, if 602 00:34:24,239 --> 00:34:26,200 Speaker 1: if you if you said, okay, gun to your head. 603 00:34:26,200 --> 00:34:29,960 Speaker 1: You gotta trade careers with somebody, you know. I just 604 00:34:30,160 --> 00:34:32,839 Speaker 1: I love I love I love John's work. And one 605 00:34:32,880 --> 00:34:34,560 Speaker 1: of the things that that you know, we had a 606 00:34:34,600 --> 00:34:37,759 Speaker 1: conversation about early on is that he's very prolific as 607 00:34:37,800 --> 00:34:41,600 Speaker 1: a as a writer. Uh. But one of the things 608 00:34:41,880 --> 00:34:45,719 Speaker 1: you know, we discussed early on was that finish, you know, 609 00:34:46,120 --> 00:34:49,640 Speaker 1: don't once you start going forward, don't go backwards and 610 00:34:50,120 --> 00:34:52,080 Speaker 1: you know you're on page thirty five, don't go back 611 00:34:52,120 --> 00:34:54,160 Speaker 1: to page to trying to fix stuff. Just keep going 612 00:34:54,920 --> 00:34:57,719 Speaker 1: right because you gotta redo it anyway. And and the 613 00:34:57,840 --> 00:35:00,279 Speaker 1: more you work through it, it's almost like working on 614 00:35:00,360 --> 00:35:03,360 Speaker 1: your body when you're writing. You know, the ideas and 615 00:35:03,480 --> 00:35:06,160 Speaker 1: the language and the scenes and stuff starts to develop 616 00:35:07,280 --> 00:35:11,279 Speaker 1: as you're working through the piece. Right, So what I 617 00:35:11,440 --> 00:35:13,360 Speaker 1: had on page one, by the time I get to 618 00:35:13,400 --> 00:35:15,439 Speaker 1: page you know ten or fifteen or twenty or thirty 619 00:35:15,520 --> 00:35:19,359 Speaker 1: or whatever it is, the ideas are starting to develop, right, 620 00:35:19,680 --> 00:35:21,600 Speaker 1: And once they started to take some shape and they 621 00:35:21,680 --> 00:35:23,759 Speaker 1: started to get you know, like some contours, and that 622 00:35:23,880 --> 00:35:26,319 Speaker 1: starts to happen, right, just go all the way through 623 00:35:26,320 --> 00:35:28,520 Speaker 1: and finish it, and then you start go back. And 624 00:35:28,640 --> 00:35:31,440 Speaker 1: that's almost kind of like working on form, right, what 625 00:35:31,520 --> 00:35:34,040 Speaker 1: does that mean? As if you were an athlete working 626 00:35:34,480 --> 00:35:37,600 Speaker 1: like literal form? So so you know, like if you're 627 00:35:37,640 --> 00:35:39,640 Speaker 1: lifting weights, you might be doing your curls one way 628 00:35:39,680 --> 00:35:42,000 Speaker 1: and you're gonna get strong. But then when you're refining, 629 00:35:42,640 --> 00:35:45,400 Speaker 1: you start to isolate. You start to really be very 630 00:35:45,520 --> 00:35:48,040 Speaker 1: very specific about what you're putting into the work and 631 00:35:48,200 --> 00:35:51,120 Speaker 1: how you're constructing it. Are you doing these movements slow? 632 00:35:51,200 --> 00:35:53,360 Speaker 1: Do you twist risk this way to get this effect 633 00:35:53,480 --> 00:35:55,680 Speaker 1: or that way to get that effect? Those are all 634 00:35:55,800 --> 00:35:58,080 Speaker 1: things that you kind of put into the writing. You know, 635 00:35:58,320 --> 00:36:00,800 Speaker 1: once you have a foundation under your feet, then you 636 00:36:00,880 --> 00:36:03,200 Speaker 1: can start to explore ideas and you can start to 637 00:36:03,280 --> 00:36:07,680 Speaker 1: inform characters, come up with funny stuff, make decisions about, oh, 638 00:36:07,760 --> 00:36:10,359 Speaker 1: we need a funny moment in the film right now? 639 00:36:10,680 --> 00:36:13,040 Speaker 1: Makes sense? You know, makes sense? Now I'm doing the 640 00:36:13,080 --> 00:36:15,040 Speaker 1: tile of the Creator thing. I got the foundation. I 641 00:36:15,080 --> 00:36:16,840 Speaker 1: know what I'm trying to do, but at this moment, 642 00:36:17,040 --> 00:36:20,640 Speaker 1: I need this to happen. It makes perfect sense, perfect sense. 643 00:36:20,680 --> 00:36:24,239 Speaker 1: I understood that just perfectly. How do you do it? 644 00:36:24,440 --> 00:36:27,880 Speaker 1: You just talked about you are you did little Ls? 645 00:36:27,960 --> 00:36:31,400 Speaker 1: You directed his his his special That has to be 646 00:36:31,480 --> 00:36:34,600 Speaker 1: different than than writing an episode of Everybody Hates Chris. 647 00:36:35,680 --> 00:36:39,080 Speaker 1: It's incredibly different. Uh, And in this particular case, it 648 00:36:39,320 --> 00:36:42,160 Speaker 1: was it was, first of all, you know, I love 649 00:36:42,239 --> 00:36:45,680 Speaker 1: rel then you know, and he's a fantastic comedian and 650 00:36:46,040 --> 00:36:53,080 Speaker 1: his creative process is unique and so uh and decidedly 651 00:36:53,239 --> 00:36:57,160 Speaker 1: different than Chris. So, you know, I've worked with Chris before. 652 00:36:57,200 --> 00:36:59,719 Speaker 1: I haven't directed any specials, but you know, uh, you know, 653 00:36:59,800 --> 00:37:01,520 Speaker 1: he's done a number of them, and I've you know, 654 00:37:01,640 --> 00:37:05,360 Speaker 1: been with him alongside you know, some other great writers. 655 00:37:05,800 --> 00:37:08,120 Speaker 1: When Chris is performing and preparing one of his stand 656 00:37:08,200 --> 00:37:11,560 Speaker 1: up specials, he goes out on the road. He works 657 00:37:11,640 --> 00:37:15,200 Speaker 1: his material. You know, he'll bring a group of writers 658 00:37:15,239 --> 00:37:17,520 Speaker 1: and comedians out that he respects and things are funny, 659 00:37:17,600 --> 00:37:19,840 Speaker 1: and you know, we'll give him notes or ideas and 660 00:37:19,960 --> 00:37:22,480 Speaker 1: he'll take this idea and take that idea, you know, 661 00:37:22,680 --> 00:37:26,680 Speaker 1: and polish up around the edges. Chris is of his act, 662 00:37:26,960 --> 00:37:29,520 Speaker 1: but every now and again he gets one killer line 663 00:37:29,640 --> 00:37:32,680 Speaker 1: or one killer tag, or one great concept from one 664 00:37:32,719 --> 00:37:35,080 Speaker 1: of his you know, great comedian and writer friends, and 665 00:37:35,160 --> 00:37:39,160 Speaker 1: he'll integrate that material. But by the time you see 666 00:37:39,239 --> 00:37:43,759 Speaker 1: Chris's stand up special, yeah, I'm saying that he could 667 00:37:43,760 --> 00:37:46,560 Speaker 1: do it with his head cuff like like like he 668 00:37:46,800 --> 00:37:49,520 Speaker 1: knows what it is, you know, He's a well oiled 669 00:37:49,640 --> 00:37:53,560 Speaker 1: machine at that point. Rail on the other hand, for me, 670 00:37:53,920 --> 00:37:57,799 Speaker 1: was much more jazz like, right, Like he came into 671 00:37:57,920 --> 00:38:01,840 Speaker 1: his special with what I consider it's almost like like 672 00:38:01,920 --> 00:38:05,000 Speaker 1: a chord progression, right he said, he he knows, he 673 00:38:05,080 --> 00:38:08,040 Speaker 1: has this idea, he has that idea. He and these 674 00:38:08,080 --> 00:38:10,080 Speaker 1: are all you know, routines that he is, you know, 675 00:38:10,200 --> 00:38:14,400 Speaker 1: performed some version of at a point in time. But 676 00:38:14,760 --> 00:38:18,680 Speaker 1: the shows as we see them have not been rehearsed, 677 00:38:19,360 --> 00:38:22,440 Speaker 1: you know, from point A to point B. So when 678 00:38:22,480 --> 00:38:25,640 Speaker 1: I'm shooting them for him, like, I don't know what 679 00:38:25,760 --> 00:38:28,680 Speaker 1: he's about to do next because I haven't heard the material. 680 00:38:30,080 --> 00:38:31,960 Speaker 1: Why do you call it like jazz? Why do you 681 00:38:32,040 --> 00:38:34,520 Speaker 1: call it like jazz? What do you mean? Well, because 682 00:38:34,560 --> 00:38:38,399 Speaker 1: in jazz you have to listen. You have to listen. 683 00:38:38,520 --> 00:38:41,920 Speaker 1: Jazz as a conversation between the musicians, right, so what 684 00:38:42,040 --> 00:38:44,400 Speaker 1: the drummer and the bass player are doing in conjunction 685 00:38:44,440 --> 00:38:46,400 Speaker 1: with how the piano is For him, in the chords 686 00:38:46,480 --> 00:38:48,879 Speaker 1: and what is happening inside the melody. At that point 687 00:38:48,880 --> 00:38:51,680 Speaker 1: in time, you think that it's just this constructed piece 688 00:38:51,719 --> 00:38:53,440 Speaker 1: than anybody can sit down and play. But it's not, 689 00:38:54,160 --> 00:38:56,400 Speaker 1: and it's never going to be the same. If you 690 00:38:56,520 --> 00:38:59,240 Speaker 1: take four more musicians and give them the same chords 691 00:38:59,280 --> 00:39:00,959 Speaker 1: and tell them to play the same song, it's gonna 692 00:39:00,960 --> 00:39:05,560 Speaker 1: come out entirely different unless they just copy it. So 693 00:39:05,760 --> 00:39:10,239 Speaker 1: the jazz is I'm watching. I'm watching what he's doing 694 00:39:10,320 --> 00:39:12,680 Speaker 1: with his body. And if if you know, we shot 695 00:39:12,760 --> 00:39:15,960 Speaker 1: two particular shows that that the night that we shot Especial, 696 00:39:16,560 --> 00:39:18,560 Speaker 1: and so I get a peek at it the first show. 697 00:39:18,880 --> 00:39:20,960 Speaker 1: I have no idea what he's saying, by the way, 698 00:39:21,120 --> 00:39:25,480 Speaker 1: because I'm watching, right, I'm hearing him say words. I'm 699 00:39:25,520 --> 00:39:28,520 Speaker 1: watching his body and that's the conversation. So in this case, 700 00:39:28,800 --> 00:39:31,520 Speaker 1: the watching is the listening, so to speak. You know, 701 00:39:32,080 --> 00:39:34,440 Speaker 1: I know that he's about to do something based on 702 00:39:34,560 --> 00:39:36,520 Speaker 1: what he's doing with his body. I know that when 703 00:39:36,560 --> 00:39:38,839 Speaker 1: he walks back to this side of the stage, it's 704 00:39:38,960 --> 00:39:41,960 Speaker 1: gotta turn around and come back to the other side. 705 00:39:42,520 --> 00:39:45,760 Speaker 1: So I can anticipate some of his movements just based 706 00:39:45,800 --> 00:39:48,839 Speaker 1: on where he is on the stage right, and then 707 00:39:48,880 --> 00:39:51,359 Speaker 1: if he has certain ideas of certain physicality, I can 708 00:39:52,160 --> 00:39:54,400 Speaker 1: anticipate that he might do this or he might do that, 709 00:39:55,000 --> 00:39:58,400 Speaker 1: but I have to pay attention. There's no resting on 710 00:39:58,520 --> 00:40:01,440 Speaker 1: my laurels that oh he's about to do the bit 711 00:40:01,480 --> 00:40:03,000 Speaker 1: and he's going to talk about the puppy, So get 712 00:40:03,040 --> 00:40:05,160 Speaker 1: ready camera three to go to their own three to 713 00:40:05,320 --> 00:40:09,600 Speaker 1: one and bam. I can't do that. Literally, in the 714 00:40:09,719 --> 00:40:12,120 Speaker 1: middle of one of his shows, there's a wonderful Uh, 715 00:40:12,440 --> 00:40:15,399 Speaker 1: there's a whole riff and you'll see it. Rail goes 716 00:40:15,440 --> 00:40:19,839 Speaker 1: into a whole thing about Lean On Me the movie. Uh, 717 00:40:20,640 --> 00:40:23,520 Speaker 1: the big moment in the show really really funny, really 718 00:40:23,600 --> 00:40:26,400 Speaker 1: really great. He had no intention of doing it on 719 00:40:26,560 --> 00:40:30,360 Speaker 1: that night, but somebody yelled something when he was in 720 00:40:30,400 --> 00:40:33,520 Speaker 1: the middle of one routine and then he took a 721 00:40:33,640 --> 00:40:39,680 Speaker 1: detour into a whole other routine and that didn't only 722 00:40:39,719 --> 00:40:42,239 Speaker 1: happen on that one show, so you know, I was like, oh, 723 00:40:42,480 --> 00:40:44,520 Speaker 1: what the what's what's this? I don't like what's going 724 00:40:44,560 --> 00:40:47,120 Speaker 1: on here, But you don't get the panic. You gotta 725 00:40:47,160 --> 00:40:48,879 Speaker 1: stay in it. So yeah, you gotta listen, you gotta 726 00:40:48,960 --> 00:40:50,640 Speaker 1: hear where it's going, you gotta feel it. And you've 727 00:40:50,680 --> 00:40:53,600 Speaker 1: gotta be in tune with uh you know, with your 728 00:40:53,640 --> 00:40:55,800 Speaker 1: creative partners when this happening. And it's not different with 729 00:40:55,920 --> 00:41:00,600 Speaker 1: actors or anything else. I'm fascinated. I'm fascinated. I'm fascinated 730 00:41:00,640 --> 00:41:03,279 Speaker 1: by the jazz analogy. I am fascinated listening to you 731 00:41:03,480 --> 00:41:07,360 Speaker 1: say that you have to watch your watching. Rail is 732 00:41:07,480 --> 00:41:10,040 Speaker 1: listening as opposed to what it would be for someone else. 733 00:41:10,280 --> 00:41:13,560 Speaker 1: When I'm interviewing someone, I have to listen Otherwise I'm 734 00:41:13,600 --> 00:41:16,920 Speaker 1: not paying attention and I don't and I can't engage 735 00:41:16,960 --> 00:41:20,000 Speaker 1: and pick up on things. So I understand the listening 736 00:41:20,040 --> 00:41:23,600 Speaker 1: aspects slash watching for you with Rail? What I what 737 00:41:23,800 --> 00:41:26,680 Speaker 1: I'm curious about, though, God, I would be I would 738 00:41:26,680 --> 00:41:29,200 Speaker 1: be like if I'm used to directing in a way 739 00:41:29,200 --> 00:41:31,799 Speaker 1: in which I know what's coming, and I'm like, okay, 740 00:41:31,880 --> 00:41:33,920 Speaker 1: camera three, get ready, we gonna bring up camera three. 741 00:41:34,080 --> 00:41:38,520 Speaker 1: I would be so nervous if I had to watch 742 00:41:38,640 --> 00:41:41,120 Speaker 1: him in order to direct, because that the first time 743 00:41:41,160 --> 00:41:43,160 Speaker 1: that you've ever had to do that, or is it 744 00:41:43,320 --> 00:41:49,600 Speaker 1: something that you've dealt with before that's conditional? Yes, uh so, 745 00:41:49,760 --> 00:41:55,200 Speaker 1: Actually this is my first time shooting a stand up special. Um, 746 00:41:55,640 --> 00:42:01,400 Speaker 1: but I've done a lot of multicam directing work, but 747 00:42:02,719 --> 00:42:10,360 Speaker 1: in the creative space of the listening and the creating 748 00:42:10,440 --> 00:42:14,399 Speaker 1: on the moving train, you know, so to speak. Um, 749 00:42:16,360 --> 00:42:21,000 Speaker 1: I'm a fan of chaos, right, No, literally I am. 750 00:42:21,719 --> 00:42:23,440 Speaker 1: I'm I'm a huge fan of What I mean by 751 00:42:23,520 --> 00:42:27,920 Speaker 1: that is, um, I'll put it to you like like this, So, uh, 752 00:42:28,160 --> 00:42:33,160 Speaker 1: my favorite genre film is the heist movie, right, Roberts 753 00:42:33,200 --> 00:42:34,759 Speaker 1: get together going to rob a bank or a thing 754 00:42:34,880 --> 00:42:37,120 Speaker 1: or whatever it is. But to me, the best part 755 00:42:37,200 --> 00:42:40,120 Speaker 1: in the heist movie is when the plan falls apart 756 00:42:40,600 --> 00:42:46,680 Speaker 1: and everybody's gotta run. So when when that happened, it 757 00:42:46,800 --> 00:42:49,040 Speaker 1: just kind of speaks to this idea of that when 758 00:42:49,120 --> 00:42:52,319 Speaker 1: all of your plans go out the window, a right, 759 00:42:52,400 --> 00:43:04,600 Speaker 1: I mean right away but not read carry it's been nice, 760 00:43:04,719 --> 00:43:11,399 Speaker 1: I gotta go. So yeah, that that that moment when 761 00:43:11,719 --> 00:43:15,080 Speaker 1: when sort of all hell breaks loose, and and how 762 00:43:15,200 --> 00:43:18,359 Speaker 1: do you how do you maintain focus in that moment? 763 00:43:18,440 --> 00:43:21,680 Speaker 1: What's the most important thing to do? Like I kind 764 00:43:21,680 --> 00:43:25,759 Speaker 1: of I kind of love the creativity and and like 765 00:43:25,880 --> 00:43:29,120 Speaker 1: sort of that explosion of that moment, right, So I 766 00:43:29,239 --> 00:43:30,879 Speaker 1: just like that. It's kind of a high wire act 767 00:43:30,920 --> 00:43:34,360 Speaker 1: and it's kind of exciting. And all of your senses 768 00:43:34,440 --> 00:43:38,680 Speaker 1: kind of everything all turn everything on, like literally turn 769 00:43:38,800 --> 00:43:43,040 Speaker 1: every everything on. And so um, I had a different 770 00:43:43,080 --> 00:43:46,200 Speaker 1: experience with the same sort of thing I shot. Um. 771 00:43:47,320 --> 00:43:50,759 Speaker 1: Kevin was doing The Real Husbands of Hollywood last year 772 00:43:50,800 --> 00:43:53,200 Speaker 1: and I did a couple episodes with him, And you 773 00:43:53,320 --> 00:43:58,840 Speaker 1: want chaos, get JB. Smoove and Nelly and you know, 774 00:43:58,920 --> 00:44:02,439 Speaker 1: and Kevin Harden, you know, and Dwayne Martin is there 775 00:44:02,560 --> 00:44:05,600 Speaker 1: and and boris and they have a loose idea of 776 00:44:05,719 --> 00:44:10,280 Speaker 1: what's going to be said and j B. Smooth is amazing, 777 00:44:10,920 --> 00:44:13,200 Speaker 1: but you know, I can't trust JB to say the 778 00:44:13,280 --> 00:44:17,960 Speaker 1: exact same line the exact same way twice. So you know, 779 00:44:18,160 --> 00:44:19,879 Speaker 1: like you got to really kind of have a sense 780 00:44:19,960 --> 00:44:22,080 Speaker 1: of how you think this is supposed to work, and 781 00:44:22,160 --> 00:44:27,120 Speaker 1: you can't be afraid when it's you know, does what 782 00:44:27,280 --> 00:44:33,319 Speaker 1: it does? I think of curb your enthusiasm, Like if 783 00:44:33,360 --> 00:44:38,120 Speaker 1: you directed that, would that be very similar to go 784 00:44:38,360 --> 00:44:41,759 Speaker 1: it's whatever it is when it is what it is? Well, 785 00:44:41,840 --> 00:44:45,399 Speaker 1: what they have is uh yeah, I'm I'm really good 786 00:44:45,440 --> 00:44:48,120 Speaker 1: friends with Jeff Garland. We go way back to Chicago 787 00:44:48,800 --> 00:44:50,719 Speaker 1: and uh, you know, and Jeff is like, you know, 788 00:44:50,800 --> 00:44:54,920 Speaker 1: they get their bullet pointed outline the dialogue. It's not scripted, 789 00:44:55,040 --> 00:44:58,560 Speaker 1: although they know what the scenes are supposed to be, right, 790 00:44:58,840 --> 00:45:00,680 Speaker 1: and so you know to the that they play in 791 00:45:00,760 --> 00:45:04,080 Speaker 1: whatever way they go. But now again that's that's jazz, 792 00:45:04,160 --> 00:45:06,920 Speaker 1: because we go, here's what's supposed to happen in this scene, 793 00:45:07,719 --> 00:45:11,520 Speaker 1: and you know, we're gonna block it loosely in this 794 00:45:11,719 --> 00:45:14,800 Speaker 1: way and get some sort of parameters, and that's cord structure. 795 00:45:15,680 --> 00:45:18,360 Speaker 1: These are the lines that were painting inside or along 796 00:45:18,840 --> 00:45:22,000 Speaker 1: and then we you know, we dive in. You know, 797 00:45:22,040 --> 00:45:23,759 Speaker 1: I'm sure if you went and looked at you know, 798 00:45:23,840 --> 00:45:25,880 Speaker 1: two or three different cuts. I mean, I bet that 799 00:45:25,960 --> 00:45:28,400 Speaker 1: you could go into any Curb your Enthusiasm as an 800 00:45:28,480 --> 00:45:33,440 Speaker 1: episode and cut an entirely different episode of the same episode. 801 00:45:33,520 --> 00:45:37,080 Speaker 1: I bet you could. I bet you could, because in 802 00:45:37,239 --> 00:45:39,040 Speaker 1: jazz they have that they have the you know, they 803 00:45:39,080 --> 00:45:42,040 Speaker 1: got take number two, Take number three, same song, entirely 804 00:45:42,080 --> 00:45:45,879 Speaker 1: different performance. My mind is blown creatively. You said something 805 00:45:45,960 --> 00:45:47,920 Speaker 1: that I remember the first time I've ever heard it. 806 00:45:48,400 --> 00:45:51,440 Speaker 1: Michael Jackson when he was filming This is It, and 807 00:45:51,520 --> 00:45:54,000 Speaker 1: he passed away and it never ever really he wasn't 808 00:45:54,040 --> 00:45:58,840 Speaker 1: able to see its fruition. But the directors were like, Michael, 809 00:45:59,160 --> 00:46:02,279 Speaker 1: when do you think hit the third button and turn 810 00:46:02,440 --> 00:46:05,080 Speaker 1: here and moon walk and do that. And he was like, 811 00:46:05,360 --> 00:46:07,640 Speaker 1: I don't know when I feel it, just when I 812 00:46:07,719 --> 00:46:09,440 Speaker 1: feel it, when you feel it, fill it with me. 813 00:46:09,480 --> 00:46:12,759 Speaker 1: And the doctor was like, with British accent, okay, like 814 00:46:12,840 --> 00:46:14,279 Speaker 1: you could tell. Director was like, I don't know what 815 00:46:14,400 --> 00:46:16,720 Speaker 1: the hell this man is talking about, but he said 816 00:46:17,640 --> 00:46:21,279 Speaker 1: heel it, and that registered so deeply with me as 817 00:46:21,360 --> 00:46:24,480 Speaker 1: someone who is in front of the camera. I'm I 818 00:46:24,600 --> 00:46:26,759 Speaker 1: know when it's right, I feel it. I know when 819 00:46:26,800 --> 00:46:30,000 Speaker 1: I say it right. I know when the interview feels good. 820 00:46:30,120 --> 00:46:31,719 Speaker 1: And I was sold no one and I when I 821 00:46:32,320 --> 00:46:35,600 Speaker 1: quite frankly, so you're right, I also know that. So 822 00:46:35,960 --> 00:46:37,960 Speaker 1: I'm I mean, you try to say that, you're like, 823 00:46:38,040 --> 00:46:41,200 Speaker 1: this is this is some trash um. So when you 824 00:46:41,400 --> 00:46:44,920 Speaker 1: say you feel it, I am. I'm I'm a fan 825 00:46:45,040 --> 00:46:47,960 Speaker 1: of being inspired by creatives, and I'm inspired by this 826 00:46:48,160 --> 00:46:50,920 Speaker 1: moment because it truly is something that is instinctive, and 827 00:46:51,000 --> 00:46:54,440 Speaker 1: it truly separates they're super talented from those who are 828 00:46:54,600 --> 00:46:58,440 Speaker 1: somewhat talented. Just how you go about entrusting your instinct um. 829 00:46:58,760 --> 00:47:01,000 Speaker 1: I am a fan of chaos that you trust what 830 00:47:01,200 --> 00:47:03,720 Speaker 1: you trust what you feel. It sounds like you trust 831 00:47:03,800 --> 00:47:10,480 Speaker 1: in that moment what feels right, and there'sn't there's the exercise. 832 00:47:10,760 --> 00:47:16,120 Speaker 1: So here's the sports analogy for you. If Lebron James 833 00:47:16,960 --> 00:47:21,800 Speaker 1: is averaging twenties seven points, again, what that means is 834 00:47:23,239 --> 00:47:26,200 Speaker 1: some days he might hit fifty, some days he might 835 00:47:26,280 --> 00:47:28,560 Speaker 1: hit sixty. The other days he might you know, only 836 00:47:28,600 --> 00:47:31,719 Speaker 1: get ten points for some odd reason. But what you 837 00:47:31,760 --> 00:47:35,759 Speaker 1: can probably count on is twenty seven. Like that's his 838 00:47:36,000 --> 00:47:40,400 Speaker 1: base level of playing. If all the systems are functioning, 839 00:47:40,880 --> 00:47:44,239 Speaker 1: you're gonna get twenty seven points happen. Uh. And and 840 00:47:44,520 --> 00:47:49,040 Speaker 1: that is in whatever the circumstances of the competition are, 841 00:47:49,440 --> 00:47:52,320 Speaker 1: because that's the amount of training that he has his 842 00:47:52,680 --> 00:47:54,960 Speaker 1: you know, whatever the instincts are, he brings it to it, 843 00:47:55,080 --> 00:47:58,239 Speaker 1: whatever the practice is that he's brought to it. So 844 00:47:58,680 --> 00:48:02,520 Speaker 1: you know your ability in a moment, uh like reil 845 00:48:03,080 --> 00:48:05,800 Speaker 1: to have somebody yell out a thing which is not 846 00:48:05,920 --> 00:48:08,560 Speaker 1: a part of your performance, put that in your roller 847 00:48:08,640 --> 00:48:11,720 Speaker 1: decks and spit back out in a tenth of a second, 848 00:48:12,000 --> 00:48:15,680 Speaker 1: a whole routine that I had no intention of doing. 849 00:48:16,200 --> 00:48:18,840 Speaker 1: That's also not going to derail my path as I 850 00:48:18,960 --> 00:48:20,520 Speaker 1: try and make it to the end of the show, 851 00:48:20,880 --> 00:48:23,120 Speaker 1: because this was not a stop I plan to make. 852 00:48:24,760 --> 00:48:26,360 Speaker 1: So when I'm done with that, then I kind of 853 00:48:26,480 --> 00:48:30,640 Speaker 1: guide it back around to where I was before. And 854 00:48:31,320 --> 00:48:33,560 Speaker 1: I have a magic moment that occurred. But I also 855 00:48:33,640 --> 00:48:37,080 Speaker 1: have a skill set that allows me to to to 856 00:48:37,880 --> 00:48:43,120 Speaker 1: embrace the unexpected without fear because I know that I 857 00:48:43,239 --> 00:48:45,640 Speaker 1: have the ability to bring things back to where I 858 00:48:45,760 --> 00:48:50,719 Speaker 1: need them. I can reset in real time. Yeah, you'll 859 00:48:50,800 --> 00:48:55,279 Speaker 1: never even know what happened, and so that that's the 860 00:48:56,000 --> 00:48:59,840 Speaker 1: There's some instinct involved. But but you're but you're training 861 00:49:00,040 --> 00:49:03,279 Speaker 1: and your practice, your methodology, and your dedication to the 862 00:49:03,400 --> 00:49:06,799 Speaker 1: craft are what allow you to act on your instincts 863 00:49:06,880 --> 00:49:12,920 Speaker 1: with efficiency. I yo, I you're speaking my language. I 864 00:49:13,239 --> 00:49:15,680 Speaker 1: want to You're we're talking computer talk to one another, 865 00:49:15,760 --> 00:49:17,600 Speaker 1: whatever it is. Our computers are talking to one another. 866 00:49:18,160 --> 00:49:21,440 Speaker 1: You said something and I have to go back, and 867 00:49:21,520 --> 00:49:23,760 Speaker 1: it reminds me of something I saw that on your Instagram. 868 00:49:23,880 --> 00:49:28,319 Speaker 1: You're from Chicago. I am clearly well respected, working very 869 00:49:28,840 --> 00:49:33,200 Speaker 1: gainfully employed in this entertainment business. Opinions regarded your your 870 00:49:34,239 --> 00:49:36,000 Speaker 1: they love it what you do in your craft. You 871 00:49:36,120 --> 00:49:38,920 Speaker 1: just casually mentioned, you know, it's interesting. I directed a 872 00:49:38,960 --> 00:49:42,160 Speaker 1: few episodes of you know, Hollywood Husbands of Hollywood. Every 873 00:49:42,200 --> 00:49:43,520 Speaker 1: I don't know what is the name of the title 874 00:49:43,760 --> 00:49:47,440 Speaker 1: they have Hollywood Real Husbands of Hollywood. I had a 875 00:49:47,680 --> 00:49:50,000 Speaker 1: girlfriend who Angela, right was on there a couple of episodes. 876 00:49:50,520 --> 00:49:55,840 Speaker 1: Um shot Angela Ryan and Amazing. Because I'm a photographer. 877 00:49:55,840 --> 00:50:01,240 Speaker 1: Also I have I actually have a incredibly beautiful photo 878 00:50:01,280 --> 00:50:04,920 Speaker 1: of Angelo from behind the scenes. Uh that one day 879 00:50:05,160 --> 00:50:08,160 Speaker 1: I'll put up somewhere. Most of the most directors I 880 00:50:08,280 --> 00:50:11,200 Speaker 1: have met are beautiful photographers. I like people who really 881 00:50:11,320 --> 00:50:14,120 Speaker 1: enjoy that. I people the capturing of it all. But okay, 882 00:50:14,160 --> 00:50:16,759 Speaker 1: I digress. And then you mentioned little Well and we 883 00:50:16,800 --> 00:50:19,080 Speaker 1: obviously know you were Chris. So I'm listening to you 884 00:50:19,160 --> 00:50:21,280 Speaker 1: talk and talk and talk, and you say you're from Chicago, 885 00:50:21,800 --> 00:50:25,759 Speaker 1: and there's this creativeness that there's I almost feel like, well, 886 00:50:26,120 --> 00:50:28,560 Speaker 1: I mean, and I might be is everywhere, but when 887 00:50:28,600 --> 00:50:30,480 Speaker 1: I do meet people from Chicago who live in like 888 00:50:30,520 --> 00:50:32,040 Speaker 1: a J I V and they live in this world 889 00:50:32,120 --> 00:50:36,879 Speaker 1: are and there's just like this close knit group of y'all, 890 00:50:37,120 --> 00:50:40,440 Speaker 1: y'all like from the Shy and it's a gang and 891 00:50:40,520 --> 00:50:45,560 Speaker 1: can't nobody get in. I get it. But your thoughts 892 00:50:46,960 --> 00:50:51,920 Speaker 1: considering how where you are of our culture, how you 893 00:50:52,320 --> 00:50:54,320 Speaker 1: how you try to make sure you put black people 894 00:50:54,360 --> 00:50:56,520 Speaker 1: in a in a space where you see our humanity, 895 00:50:56,600 --> 00:51:00,480 Speaker 1: because we're not seeing as humans by and large. Sometimes 896 00:51:01,480 --> 00:51:07,600 Speaker 1: most times your thoughts on Kanye I mean and not 897 00:51:08,040 --> 00:51:17,440 Speaker 1: particularly complicated. UM, I have to believe that what he 898 00:51:17,640 --> 00:51:24,439 Speaker 1: has told us about himself is true. UM, all things 899 00:51:24,520 --> 00:51:30,120 Speaker 1: being equal, what I feel like I have experienced by 900 00:51:30,239 --> 00:51:33,160 Speaker 1: way of his his work and and his you know, 901 00:51:33,320 --> 00:51:38,080 Speaker 1: interactions with the public. Uh, I've always kind of felt 902 00:51:38,120 --> 00:51:40,759 Speaker 1: like he was a guy and maybe we didn't even 903 00:51:40,880 --> 00:51:46,320 Speaker 1: necessarily understand it before. UM. He may say or do 904 00:51:46,560 --> 00:51:49,319 Speaker 1: things that you know, in the creative space or are 905 00:51:49,600 --> 00:51:52,279 Speaker 1: groundbreaking and you know, in boundary pushing and in the 906 00:51:52,440 --> 00:51:57,040 Speaker 1: personal and human space, might be you know, offensive or outrageous. 907 00:51:57,960 --> 00:52:02,040 Speaker 1: But what I do believe about him is that he 908 00:52:02,320 --> 00:52:07,040 Speaker 1: does believe that what he's saying is true. And I 909 00:52:07,239 --> 00:52:13,400 Speaker 1: also believe that he does not have any desire to 910 00:52:14,320 --> 00:52:19,920 Speaker 1: to harm anyone emotionally, physically, or anything else. I do 911 00:52:20,120 --> 00:52:27,200 Speaker 1: believe that, Um, he is a person who has certain compromises. 912 00:52:27,560 --> 00:52:30,560 Speaker 1: You know, he has told us that he is bipolar, 913 00:52:31,160 --> 00:52:34,360 Speaker 1: and he has told us that he has issues around 914 00:52:34,680 --> 00:52:37,560 Speaker 1: you know, the medications that he's supposed to take and 915 00:52:37,880 --> 00:52:42,080 Speaker 1: to the extent that we accepted that is true, but 916 00:52:42,200 --> 00:52:45,720 Speaker 1: that we don't know the truth of how that plays 917 00:52:45,840 --> 00:52:51,160 Speaker 1: out in his life. All I would say is we 918 00:52:51,360 --> 00:52:57,640 Speaker 1: have a responsibility two trust what we have seen. Basically, 919 00:52:58,040 --> 00:53:02,319 Speaker 1: if you are a raging alcoholic, yeah, the last thing 920 00:53:02,400 --> 00:53:05,160 Speaker 1: I'm gonna give you is a drink. Right. I'm not 921 00:53:05,200 --> 00:53:07,120 Speaker 1: gonna bring you into a bar and ask you to 922 00:53:07,239 --> 00:53:09,520 Speaker 1: chill and hang out in there. And I'm not absolving 923 00:53:09,640 --> 00:53:12,880 Speaker 1: Kanye of anything, but I do believe that if the 924 00:53:13,040 --> 00:53:15,160 Speaker 1: damage that he has done has been by way of 925 00:53:15,280 --> 00:53:17,840 Speaker 1: the platforms that he's been given to speak on things 926 00:53:18,239 --> 00:53:22,040 Speaker 1: that we disagree in the way that he talks about them, 927 00:53:22,239 --> 00:53:26,680 Speaker 1: they quit giving him a microphone. Right. So, whether it's 928 00:53:26,920 --> 00:53:29,359 Speaker 1: you know, whether it is drink Champs or whether it's 929 00:53:29,400 --> 00:53:33,239 Speaker 1: Chucker Carlson or ABC or whoever else it is, you know, 930 00:53:33,719 --> 00:53:36,440 Speaker 1: that's it's not different. And I'm gonna say something that 931 00:53:36,480 --> 00:53:39,080 Speaker 1: I feel like it's kind of crazy here, but you know, 932 00:53:39,200 --> 00:53:41,600 Speaker 1: it's not different from a sexual assault in the sense 933 00:53:41,680 --> 00:53:44,440 Speaker 1: that if a woman is drunk, what we're saying is 934 00:53:44,520 --> 00:53:47,920 Speaker 1: that her ability to her judgment is compromised, and so 935 00:53:48,080 --> 00:53:49,640 Speaker 1: what we don't want is to put her in a 936 00:53:49,680 --> 00:53:52,360 Speaker 1: position of position where the decisions that she's going to 937 00:53:52,440 --> 00:53:54,680 Speaker 1: make or the things that she's going to do are 938 00:53:54,680 --> 00:53:56,960 Speaker 1: going to put her in danger. Because we understand that 939 00:53:57,040 --> 00:54:01,719 Speaker 1: she's compromised, right, we don't solve them wholly of being 940 00:54:01,800 --> 00:54:03,800 Speaker 1: in that space, because we go, well, you are an adult, 941 00:54:03,840 --> 00:54:06,239 Speaker 1: and you should have an idea of what the consequences 942 00:54:06,280 --> 00:54:10,160 Speaker 1: of your actions are. However, once you do the thing 943 00:54:10,280 --> 00:54:14,120 Speaker 1: that compromises your ability to make sound judgments, we take 944 00:54:14,200 --> 00:54:17,399 Speaker 1: that into consideration. So if I knew before you came 945 00:54:17,480 --> 00:54:19,440 Speaker 1: in the door that oh, here comes kindie, he's liable 946 00:54:19,480 --> 00:54:22,040 Speaker 1: to say something crazy. He says something crazy last week, 947 00:54:22,320 --> 00:54:24,600 Speaker 1: and you know he might say something crazy next week. 948 00:54:24,800 --> 00:54:26,279 Speaker 1: I'm gonna do a lot of things with you, but 949 00:54:26,360 --> 00:54:28,080 Speaker 1: I'm not gonna handle a microphone and go what do 950 00:54:28,200 --> 00:54:32,960 Speaker 1: you think? And so I'm gonna say, I'm just say 951 00:54:33,040 --> 00:54:37,080 Speaker 1: one last thing. As a black man, uh looking at 952 00:54:37,120 --> 00:54:41,160 Speaker 1: another black man who has reached some astounding creative you know, 953 00:54:42,000 --> 00:54:45,719 Speaker 1: heights as in business, you know, persona and everything else. 954 00:54:46,000 --> 00:54:48,719 Speaker 1: You know, I'm inhaviorative of of everything that he's done. 955 00:54:49,360 --> 00:54:51,920 Speaker 1: And I also have a great deal of concern for 956 00:54:52,080 --> 00:54:59,920 Speaker 1: the way um his health is being handled. Unfortunately, you know, 957 00:55:00,160 --> 00:55:02,600 Speaker 1: if he's not a billionaire. Now, there's still three hundred 958 00:55:02,600 --> 00:55:04,040 Speaker 1: million dollars in the bank, and it's hard to tell 959 00:55:04,080 --> 00:55:05,719 Speaker 1: a guy with three hundred million dollars what to do. 960 00:55:07,160 --> 00:55:09,839 Speaker 1: It's difficult. If we could do that, Michael Jackson would 961 00:55:09,840 --> 00:55:13,440 Speaker 1: still be alive. Hey, Mike, hold on, don't use propofile 962 00:55:13,520 --> 00:55:17,280 Speaker 1: to go to sleep. Why don't you exercise and drink tea? Yeah, 963 00:55:17,640 --> 00:55:20,440 Speaker 1: if anybody could stop him, and so, the amount of 964 00:55:20,560 --> 00:55:23,160 Speaker 1: power that comes with that amount of money is difficult 965 00:55:23,239 --> 00:55:26,359 Speaker 1: to stop a grown man from doing what he wants 966 00:55:26,360 --> 00:55:29,640 Speaker 1: to do. But I have empathy, I have concerned I 967 00:55:29,760 --> 00:55:34,680 Speaker 1: hope that he is able to find a way to 968 00:55:34,800 --> 00:55:42,319 Speaker 1: address his health. In front of our eyes. He's having 969 00:55:42,440 --> 00:55:45,040 Speaker 1: something that that that looks like incredible challenges with his 970 00:55:45,160 --> 00:55:50,360 Speaker 1: help and his ability to communicate his ideas. But it doesn't. 971 00:55:50,560 --> 00:55:54,840 Speaker 1: It doesn't absolve him though, correct. And but you're it 972 00:55:54,920 --> 00:55:57,960 Speaker 1: sounds like you're saying there are other people culpable in this. 973 00:55:58,280 --> 00:56:01,399 Speaker 1: If you put this man, you know he's clearly not well, 974 00:56:01,880 --> 00:56:04,000 Speaker 1: but yet you give him a microphone and you asked 975 00:56:04,080 --> 00:56:09,520 Speaker 1: him to talk. He is not singularly responsible for what 976 00:56:09,680 --> 00:56:12,080 Speaker 1: he has done. There are there are people who are 977 00:56:12,160 --> 00:56:16,680 Speaker 1: complicit their networks. There outlets that are competition. You can't invite. 978 00:56:16,760 --> 00:56:18,719 Speaker 1: You can't invite a person who is known to do 979 00:56:18,880 --> 00:56:21,400 Speaker 1: things in a particular way that tends to offend people. 980 00:56:21,520 --> 00:56:24,719 Speaker 1: In an episode where that's precisely what he's doing. You 981 00:56:24,840 --> 00:56:27,399 Speaker 1: invite him onto a platform. He does that, You get mad, 982 00:56:27,640 --> 00:56:29,560 Speaker 1: then you kick him off the platform because he did it. 983 00:56:32,360 --> 00:56:34,200 Speaker 1: I crashed the car into a wall before I got 984 00:56:34,280 --> 00:56:36,439 Speaker 1: in here. Then I borrowed your car, crashed your car, 985 00:56:36,680 --> 00:56:38,200 Speaker 1: and you're like, why did you crash my car? Like 986 00:56:38,239 --> 00:56:40,200 Speaker 1: because you loaned it to me. I just crashed the 987 00:56:40,239 --> 00:56:43,520 Speaker 1: car a minute ago. That's what I do. I can't drive. Yeah, 988 00:56:43,560 --> 00:56:46,200 Speaker 1: I can't drive. And you know that. You knew that 989 00:56:46,280 --> 00:56:48,680 Speaker 1: when you gave me this. I just crashed the car. Now. 990 00:56:49,600 --> 00:56:52,359 Speaker 1: There's a beautiful moment in Uh Devil in a Blue 991 00:56:52,440 --> 00:56:57,759 Speaker 1: Dress Denzel and Don Chee Uh great Walt mostly movie book, 992 00:56:57,920 --> 00:57:02,399 Speaker 1: you know, and Uh Denzel's character Easy Rowlings goes into 993 00:57:02,480 --> 00:57:07,040 Speaker 1: a building. They come to interrogate somebody and Easy leaves mouse. 994 00:57:07,640 --> 00:57:11,440 Speaker 1: That's done to look after this guy, to keep an 995 00:57:11,440 --> 00:57:14,080 Speaker 1: eye on him, and then he goes into the house, 996 00:57:14,120 --> 00:57:15,839 Speaker 1: he comes back out. By the time he comes back out, 997 00:57:16,800 --> 00:57:20,280 Speaker 1: mouse has killed him. And he said, like, why did 998 00:57:20,360 --> 00:57:22,360 Speaker 1: you do that? He's like a mouse? You know what 999 00:57:22,520 --> 00:57:26,320 Speaker 1: I do? You left him with me? What's expect fact? 1000 00:57:28,920 --> 00:57:32,400 Speaker 1: And so to that end, I do feel like I 1001 00:57:32,520 --> 00:57:35,160 Speaker 1: do feel like we do have some culpability in that 1002 00:57:35,320 --> 00:57:38,040 Speaker 1: way that Kanye is in charge of his mouth, but 1003 00:57:38,360 --> 00:57:40,200 Speaker 1: a lot of people are in charge of the platforms 1004 00:57:40,240 --> 00:57:44,320 Speaker 1: where he's shooting his mouth off, and so at least 1005 00:57:44,400 --> 00:57:46,920 Speaker 1: we could wholly and totally blame him if he got 1006 00:57:47,000 --> 00:57:49,560 Speaker 1: on the corner with a megaphone and just started shouting 1007 00:57:49,600 --> 00:57:53,200 Speaker 1: stuff and it's like, okay, well, you know what, what 1008 00:57:53,320 --> 00:57:55,640 Speaker 1: are we gonna do? He's out on thirty Street with 1009 00:57:55,680 --> 00:58:00,320 Speaker 1: a megaphone saying he hates the Jews. Okay, but that's 1010 00:58:00,360 --> 00:58:05,960 Speaker 1: not what happened. So you know, I'm again it's a 1011 00:58:06,120 --> 00:58:11,320 Speaker 1: He's a whole person. There's humanity there, there's an experience there. Uh. 1012 00:58:11,800 --> 00:58:15,960 Speaker 1: And I don't wish for him to continue to be 1013 00:58:16,080 --> 00:58:20,000 Speaker 1: in these spaces where we can't see through to the 1014 00:58:20,160 --> 00:58:24,640 Speaker 1: amazing ideas and and his amazing accomplishments because of the 1015 00:58:24,720 --> 00:58:28,600 Speaker 1: ways in which he's compromised around his ability to express 1016 00:58:28,680 --> 00:58:31,920 Speaker 1: them in a way that doesn't offend and doesn't repulse 1017 00:58:32,000 --> 00:58:35,240 Speaker 1: and doesn't repel. You know, even when it's difficult subject matter, 1018 00:58:35,760 --> 00:58:38,040 Speaker 1: you know, he doesn't quite seem to be able to 1019 00:58:38,840 --> 00:58:43,320 Speaker 1: present his ideas in a way that allows um us 1020 00:58:43,360 --> 00:58:47,920 Speaker 1: to engage earnestly. You know, we're feeling triggered, you know, 1021 00:58:48,000 --> 00:58:51,400 Speaker 1: amongst other things. And so whether that's you know, death 1022 00:58:51,440 --> 00:58:54,120 Speaker 1: con three or whether that's a like white Lives Matter shirt, 1023 00:58:54,560 --> 00:58:58,880 Speaker 1: you know, nobody, no one's getting spared. Every champion and 1024 00:58:59,120 --> 00:59:01,600 Speaker 1: every champion is to be a champion, a champion and 1025 00:59:01,720 --> 00:59:05,280 Speaker 1: carry champion and carry chapion A champion and carry champion 1026 00:59:05,320 --> 00:59:08,160 Speaker 1: and carry champions and sports. And then the taming can 1027 00:59:08,240 --> 00:59:16,080 Speaker 1: make you work. Every champion and carry champions to be 1028 00:59:16,200 --> 00:59:20,360 Speaker 1: a champion, a champion, they carry champion, they champion, they 1029 00:59:20,440 --> 00:59:23,560 Speaker 1: carry champion, they care with champion sports, And then the 1030 00:59:23,640 --> 00:59:29,680 Speaker 1: saying can make it work. Here's my thought when when 1031 00:59:29,800 --> 00:59:33,280 Speaker 1: people who have a platform such as yourself, I don't 1032 00:59:33,280 --> 00:59:36,280 Speaker 1: know if it's the right word black thought leaders UM 1033 00:59:38,160 --> 00:59:40,600 Speaker 1: people who want to present and shore humanity and who 1034 00:59:40,680 --> 00:59:45,680 Speaker 1: we are all the things, all the things right, I wonder, Ali, 1035 00:59:45,800 --> 00:59:52,160 Speaker 1: do we do you ever do you ever feel like 1036 00:59:52,640 --> 00:59:57,840 Speaker 1: it is your responsibility to save someone like Kanye, to 1037 00:59:58,000 --> 01:00:02,720 Speaker 1: save someone, to to save a particular industry to talk 1038 01:00:02,760 --> 01:00:05,840 Speaker 1: about You just saw you know, another death in the 1039 01:00:05,960 --> 01:00:08,800 Speaker 1: rap industry, and you think another person was murdered. Is 1040 01:00:08,880 --> 01:00:15,480 Speaker 1: it our responsibility culturally to protect our own well? Again, 1041 01:00:16,360 --> 01:00:20,160 Speaker 1: you know, you're talking about you know, uh, you're talking 1042 01:00:20,200 --> 01:00:24,480 Speaker 1: about adults, and you're talking about adults who have the 1043 01:00:24,600 --> 01:00:27,600 Speaker 1: means to move about the country freely, you know, if 1044 01:00:27,680 --> 01:00:30,520 Speaker 1: not the world. And so you're you're going to be 1045 01:00:30,720 --> 01:00:34,960 Speaker 1: challenged again around attempting to stop you know, a a 1046 01:00:35,360 --> 01:00:38,520 Speaker 1: multi millionaire there, I say, a billionaire from doing what 1047 01:00:38,680 --> 01:00:45,160 Speaker 1: he wants to do. Um. However, while we may not 1048 01:00:45,280 --> 01:00:47,400 Speaker 1: be able to stop a person from doing a thing, 1049 01:00:47,840 --> 01:00:53,560 Speaker 1: you know, we can refuse to participate. And the refusal 1050 01:00:53,640 --> 01:00:59,440 Speaker 1: to participate, uh, is the power that we have if 1051 01:00:59,640 --> 01:01:04,880 Speaker 1: if in fact, what we want is to be of 1052 01:01:05,360 --> 01:01:07,720 Speaker 1: some aid or some assistance or help or give some 1053 01:01:07,840 --> 01:01:10,480 Speaker 1: insight or guidance or whatever it is. We're trying to 1054 01:01:10,560 --> 01:01:13,320 Speaker 1: keep the train on the tracks. We kind of treat 1055 01:01:13,480 --> 01:01:16,520 Speaker 1: train on the tracks. They lock the conductor booth and 1056 01:01:16,680 --> 01:01:19,920 Speaker 1: don't let this guy that's gonna drive the train off 1057 01:01:19,960 --> 01:01:21,760 Speaker 1: the tracks and get in there and get his hands 1058 01:01:21,800 --> 01:01:25,600 Speaker 1: on the wheel. Just just sit down for a minute. 1059 01:01:26,880 --> 01:01:29,520 Speaker 1: If I if I run Adidas and Kanye said something crazy, 1060 01:01:29,680 --> 01:01:34,440 Speaker 1: I could go, hey, man, what is what are you doing? Alright? Dude, listen, um. 1061 01:01:35,120 --> 01:01:36,600 Speaker 1: I don't like what you're doing. I don't like the 1062 01:01:36,680 --> 01:01:38,360 Speaker 1: way that you're doing. I do love the business that 1063 01:01:38,440 --> 01:01:40,160 Speaker 1: we have together. But if you continue on in the 1064 01:01:40,200 --> 01:01:42,640 Speaker 1: way that you are, we're going to have problems. I 1065 01:01:42,720 --> 01:01:44,920 Speaker 1: see them coming. So what we're gonna do right now 1066 01:01:45,600 --> 01:01:48,480 Speaker 1: is I'm gonna give you a couple of options. Do this, 1067 01:01:48,720 --> 01:01:51,280 Speaker 1: don't do that, say this, don't say that, And not 1068 01:01:51,920 --> 01:01:55,960 Speaker 1: to to make someone you know bow down or anything 1069 01:01:56,080 --> 01:01:59,360 Speaker 1: like that, but just to have some acknowledgement around are 1070 01:01:59,440 --> 01:02:05,560 Speaker 1: you going too? Can you admit at the bare minimum 1071 01:02:06,040 --> 01:02:09,760 Speaker 1: that you're having some challenges right now? But why maybe 1072 01:02:09,840 --> 01:02:12,560 Speaker 1: this isn't the best way? Why is it? Why is 1073 01:02:12,640 --> 01:02:15,080 Speaker 1: he now canceled? And then this might be a difference. 1074 01:02:15,160 --> 01:02:19,280 Speaker 1: Why is he now canceled quote unquote in theory after 1075 01:02:19,440 --> 01:02:22,280 Speaker 1: his attack on Jewish people in Adidas, and he wasn't 1076 01:02:22,320 --> 01:02:26,640 Speaker 1: canceled when he said slavery was a choice. Why why 1077 01:02:27,000 --> 01:02:34,480 Speaker 1: is it that the disrespect of our community is always overlooked? 1078 01:02:35,040 --> 01:02:37,400 Speaker 1: And we all know if you say anything about another 1079 01:02:37,480 --> 01:02:40,800 Speaker 1: community and you Jewish people, you we all know you 1080 01:02:40,920 --> 01:02:43,120 Speaker 1: just don't go there if you want to continue to 1081 01:02:43,280 --> 01:02:47,960 Speaker 1: thrive in this world. I'm not saying their struggle is 1082 01:02:48,240 --> 01:02:53,520 Speaker 1: are there are the Holocaust was less important than slavery. 1083 01:02:53,560 --> 01:02:55,439 Speaker 1: I'm not doing that because right now there's a major 1084 01:02:55,520 --> 01:02:57,960 Speaker 1: battle going on between Black people and Jewish people, and 1085 01:02:58,040 --> 01:03:01,920 Speaker 1: it's so uncomfortable that we have, you we have to 1086 01:03:01,960 --> 01:03:04,480 Speaker 1: compare traumas. I don't want to do that. But what 1087 01:03:04,600 --> 01:03:07,960 Speaker 1: I am saying is, how come he wasn't, in your opinion, 1088 01:03:08,320 --> 01:03:12,280 Speaker 1: shut down after that? Why did the world not jump up? 1089 01:03:12,280 --> 01:03:14,520 Speaker 1: Why did the didus not say, uh, that was too 1090 01:03:14,600 --> 01:03:16,920 Speaker 1: much for me, Kanye? Why did Kim say, you know what, 1091 01:03:17,240 --> 01:03:19,560 Speaker 1: this is enough. I need to distance myself from you 1092 01:03:20,400 --> 01:03:24,120 Speaker 1: at that moment. All right? So you asking a couple 1093 01:03:24,120 --> 01:03:27,360 Speaker 1: of things, and one of them is wrapped around this 1094 01:03:27,560 --> 01:03:30,720 Speaker 1: idea of why is it that he can speak out, 1095 01:03:31,120 --> 01:03:33,400 Speaker 1: you know, in a particular way about the experiences of 1096 01:03:33,440 --> 01:03:39,240 Speaker 1: black people and not have the same Vito words impact, 1097 01:03:39,480 --> 01:03:42,080 Speaker 1: you know, his his business and his career in the 1098 01:03:42,200 --> 01:03:46,160 Speaker 1: same way that, uh it does you know if he 1099 01:03:46,320 --> 01:03:50,400 Speaker 1: speaks ill of the Jewish community, and I would dare 1100 01:03:50,480 --> 01:03:55,520 Speaker 1: say it does, but it doesn't look the same. Okay, 1101 01:03:55,640 --> 01:04:02,120 Speaker 1: we have we have different powers, Okay, Right, So in 1102 01:04:02,160 --> 01:04:04,080 Speaker 1: the middle, you have a man who has a lot 1103 01:04:04,120 --> 01:04:08,600 Speaker 1: of ideas and likes to sell us stuff, right, And 1104 01:04:08,720 --> 01:04:10,800 Speaker 1: on one end of the end of the equation, you 1105 01:04:10,880 --> 01:04:12,920 Speaker 1: have a group of people who can make that happen, 1106 01:04:13,000 --> 01:04:17,480 Speaker 1: making manufacture and distribute and advertise and promote all of 1107 01:04:17,520 --> 01:04:19,400 Speaker 1: the things that he wants to sell. He can make 1108 01:04:19,440 --> 01:04:21,560 Speaker 1: those things real. And on the other side of the 1109 01:04:21,680 --> 01:04:23,600 Speaker 1: equation you have people who are supposed to spend their 1110 01:04:23,640 --> 01:04:28,880 Speaker 1: money on those things. Right. So if he says an 1111 01:04:28,920 --> 01:04:32,960 Speaker 1: offensive thing, or hurts the feelings or runs a foul 1112 01:04:33,040 --> 01:04:35,160 Speaker 1: of the people who are supposed to buy the thing, 1113 01:04:36,520 --> 01:04:40,680 Speaker 1: then it's the responsibility of the people who are supposed 1114 01:04:40,720 --> 01:04:43,680 Speaker 1: to buy the thing, if that's the statement they want 1115 01:04:43,720 --> 01:04:46,400 Speaker 1: to make, to stop buying the thing. My statement to 1116 01:04:46,520 --> 01:04:48,560 Speaker 1: you is you can say whatever you want. Slavery was 1117 01:04:48,600 --> 01:04:51,600 Speaker 1: a choice. Well, your sneakers are still at the store. Yeah, 1118 01:04:52,560 --> 01:04:55,160 Speaker 1: that's my response to slavery is a choice. Okay, Well, 1119 01:04:55,200 --> 01:04:58,439 Speaker 1: good also, so as not buying easy. So I'm gonna 1120 01:04:58,520 --> 01:05:02,040 Speaker 1: do that. We don't agree, right, And on the other 1121 01:05:02,120 --> 01:05:05,360 Speaker 1: side of the equation, he can go, uh, Jewish people 1122 01:05:05,400 --> 01:05:07,080 Speaker 1: did X y Z and I disagree with that, and 1123 01:05:07,120 --> 01:05:08,800 Speaker 1: they go, okay, well you can disagree with him that. 1124 01:05:08,840 --> 01:05:10,600 Speaker 1: I'm also not going to make your shoes or sell 1125 01:05:10,640 --> 01:05:13,800 Speaker 1: your records, so you know, if you can find somebody 1126 01:05:13,840 --> 01:05:18,080 Speaker 1: else to do it the right. You know, if if 1127 01:05:18,200 --> 01:05:20,520 Speaker 1: if the black people who are mad at you about 1128 01:05:21,800 --> 01:05:25,680 Speaker 1: whatever you said about them continue to buy your stuff, 1129 01:05:25,840 --> 01:05:27,720 Speaker 1: then why should I quit making it and selling it 1130 01:05:27,800 --> 01:05:34,920 Speaker 1: to him? Yeah. Conversely, if the people who are making 1131 01:05:35,000 --> 01:05:38,479 Speaker 1: the stuff, you know, are are being offended by whatever 1132 01:05:38,560 --> 01:05:41,240 Speaker 1: it is that he said, well you know that's that's 1133 01:05:41,320 --> 01:05:43,120 Speaker 1: their thing to deal with in the way. So maybe 1134 01:05:43,160 --> 01:05:48,080 Speaker 1: you are, maybe are Maybe we're having some envy, maybe 1135 01:05:48,080 --> 01:05:50,960 Speaker 1: a little bit of jealousy because the ways in which 1136 01:05:51,040 --> 01:05:53,680 Speaker 1: we think we'd like to be able to shut something 1137 01:05:53,840 --> 01:05:57,240 Speaker 1: down looks like it's happening in one space, and we 1138 01:05:57,360 --> 01:05:59,240 Speaker 1: think that we don't have the power the ability to 1139 01:05:59,320 --> 01:06:02,760 Speaker 1: make it happen in our own space. Uh, And that's 1140 01:06:02,800 --> 01:06:07,240 Speaker 1: not entirely true. So you know, I think what we're 1141 01:06:07,280 --> 01:06:10,200 Speaker 1: looking for more often than not as empathy. You know, 1142 01:06:10,760 --> 01:06:13,160 Speaker 1: it's not about him being cancel It's about wanting to 1143 01:06:13,240 --> 01:06:17,040 Speaker 1: feel like you give a ship about what what what's 1144 01:06:17,080 --> 01:06:20,480 Speaker 1: happening with me? You know, nobody's gonna win the battle 1145 01:06:20,520 --> 01:06:23,800 Speaker 1: of who had it worst, right, because all of the debt, 1146 01:06:23,920 --> 01:06:26,960 Speaker 1: all of the dead people are dead, right. All of 1147 01:06:27,040 --> 01:06:29,360 Speaker 1: the people who suffered and have scars and have gone 1148 01:06:29,400 --> 01:06:32,040 Speaker 1: through things that are you know, horrible things to go through. 1149 01:06:32,080 --> 01:06:33,840 Speaker 1: All of those people have gone through those things. So 1150 01:06:33,960 --> 01:06:36,480 Speaker 1: in the space of the human experience, you know, we 1151 01:06:36,560 --> 01:06:38,520 Speaker 1: don't necessarily want for any of those people to have 1152 01:06:38,640 --> 01:06:42,480 Speaker 1: had to have gone through that. Um and the extent 1153 01:06:42,600 --> 01:06:45,760 Speaker 1: to which, again I empathize or sympathize with what your 1154 01:06:45,800 --> 01:06:48,880 Speaker 1: experience was. And then you know, however, ride you know, 1155 01:06:49,280 --> 01:06:51,720 Speaker 1: engage with you as as a result of that. Is 1156 01:06:51,760 --> 01:06:54,720 Speaker 1: their dignity is there, is their respect, is their concerning 1157 01:06:54,840 --> 01:07:01,800 Speaker 1: is their effort to see that never happens again? Right? 1158 01:07:03,360 --> 01:07:04,720 Speaker 1: So that saw, I just think that a lot of 1159 01:07:04,800 --> 01:07:07,600 Speaker 1: people have knee jerk reactions to these sorts of things. 1160 01:07:07,720 --> 01:07:10,560 Speaker 1: I do think they're big, I do think they're important. Um, 1161 01:07:11,560 --> 01:07:16,400 Speaker 1: has Kanye been canceled? Having a rough moment? Yeah, I 1162 01:07:16,440 --> 01:07:21,200 Speaker 1: don't know if he sits down down for a minute. 1163 01:07:22,040 --> 01:07:24,040 Speaker 1: You know, I don't know the answer to the question, 1164 01:07:24,120 --> 01:07:27,280 Speaker 1: but I do know sometimes you gotta give people a minute. 1165 01:07:28,640 --> 01:07:30,600 Speaker 1: I will tell you that I do believe our culture, 1166 01:07:30,640 --> 01:07:35,840 Speaker 1: black folks in particular or very forgiving, incredibly forgiving. We 1167 01:07:35,920 --> 01:07:37,520 Speaker 1: live in a whole country where people been trying to 1168 01:07:37,600 --> 01:07:40,840 Speaker 1: kill us since we've been here and we stayed. There's 1169 01:07:40,880 --> 01:07:44,480 Speaker 1: incredibly every week we gotta forgive something. Every week we 1170 01:07:44,560 --> 01:07:47,600 Speaker 1: gotta forgive somebody. We Black people as a culture and 1171 01:07:47,720 --> 01:07:50,400 Speaker 1: as a people, have to have the biggest hearts, have 1172 01:07:50,520 --> 01:07:53,000 Speaker 1: the most empathy, have the most endurance. I dare say 1173 01:07:53,080 --> 01:07:56,880 Speaker 1: more than everybody else. Ie is it? And sometimes I 1174 01:07:57,000 --> 01:08:02,040 Speaker 1: often ask myself is it too much? Are we doing money? Why? Never? 1175 01:08:02,480 --> 01:08:06,440 Speaker 1: What you know? I'm I'm gonna I'm gonna be the 1176 01:08:06,480 --> 01:08:09,080 Speaker 1: crazy guy and I and you're not crazy. You you've 1177 01:08:09,120 --> 01:08:11,120 Speaker 1: given me a message. Go ahead, I'm writing it down, 1178 01:08:11,280 --> 01:08:17,479 Speaker 1: taking notes. Love is stronger. Love is stronger than hate. 1179 01:08:20,200 --> 01:08:27,719 Speaker 1: It just is. It's very very simple. If two people 1180 01:08:27,760 --> 01:08:30,880 Speaker 1: are tasked with doing a thing that they love or 1181 01:08:30,960 --> 01:08:33,240 Speaker 1: be a thing that they hate, which thing do you 1182 01:08:33,360 --> 01:08:38,360 Speaker 1: think they're going to be able to do? Longer. We can't. 1183 01:08:38,400 --> 01:08:41,719 Speaker 1: We can't tie of hating people. Hating people gets exhausting. 1184 01:08:41,800 --> 01:08:44,960 Speaker 1: That's like, damn, I've been mad at some people in 1185 01:08:45,040 --> 01:08:46,720 Speaker 1: my life, and it's some people that at some point 1186 01:08:46,720 --> 01:08:48,479 Speaker 1: it just gets exhausted. It's like, damn, why was that 1187 01:08:48,600 --> 01:08:51,000 Speaker 1: mad at you? What you do? I forgot? I forgot, 1188 01:08:51,280 --> 01:08:54,960 Speaker 1: I forgot even if even if you didn't forget, Sometimes 1189 01:08:55,000 --> 01:08:57,120 Speaker 1: it's like, all right, that's that was a lot of 1190 01:08:57,200 --> 01:09:00,160 Speaker 1: work to stay mad. It's a lot of work, to say, 1191 01:09:00,200 --> 01:09:02,200 Speaker 1: a lot of work to stay mad. And we don't 1192 01:09:02,280 --> 01:09:06,240 Speaker 1: have it as a people, as a culture, and so 1193 01:09:06,400 --> 01:09:08,439 Speaker 1: and sometimes we gotta hand it off. Sometimes we gotta 1194 01:09:08,439 --> 01:09:10,720 Speaker 1: go keep eye on that guy. I'm too tired to 1195 01:09:10,720 --> 01:09:12,360 Speaker 1: stay mad at him. But you guys, pick up the 1196 01:09:12,439 --> 01:09:15,320 Speaker 1: torch and don't let up the heat on this person. 1197 01:09:15,400 --> 01:09:18,880 Speaker 1: But but anger as a means to an end, I 1198 01:09:18,960 --> 01:09:22,360 Speaker 1: don't think it's as effective or as efficient as you know, 1199 01:09:22,600 --> 01:09:26,200 Speaker 1: endeavors of love, so to speak. So even if the 1200 01:09:26,320 --> 01:09:32,240 Speaker 1: goal of you know, uh, keeping the eye on the prize, 1201 01:09:32,439 --> 01:09:35,000 Speaker 1: so to speak, you know, even if there's something that 1202 01:09:35,200 --> 01:09:39,160 Speaker 1: is difficult to uh, you know, maintain about whatever that 1203 01:09:39,320 --> 01:09:42,160 Speaker 1: challenge is the reason that you're doing it, if it 1204 01:09:42,240 --> 01:09:45,000 Speaker 1: comes from a place of care and love and concern 1205 01:09:45,120 --> 01:09:48,519 Speaker 1: and connection, you know, uh been, chances are you gonna 1206 01:09:48,640 --> 01:09:51,519 Speaker 1: stand much better. You know, the odds are much better 1207 01:09:51,560 --> 01:09:54,759 Speaker 1: if you, you know, completing this task than than failing 1208 01:09:54,840 --> 01:09:58,400 Speaker 1: at it. You know, Ben Ldden blew up the buildings 1209 01:09:58,680 --> 01:10:03,280 Speaker 1: day down. He's dead and now now we're doing some 1210 01:10:03,320 --> 01:10:05,479 Speaker 1: other stuff. We built a new building and you're gone, 1211 01:10:05,960 --> 01:10:08,760 Speaker 1: and I'm sorry that happened. Yeah, and now we will 1212 01:10:08,800 --> 01:10:16,040 Speaker 1: carry on without you. Well, if I had a choice 1213 01:10:17,040 --> 01:10:19,400 Speaker 1: between loving and hating, which one would I do? I 1214 01:10:19,479 --> 01:10:23,080 Speaker 1: would love because it's I need you to do that 1215 01:10:23,240 --> 01:10:28,959 Speaker 1: when I stay angry as I wrap up this interview 1216 01:10:29,280 --> 01:10:32,200 Speaker 1: because you used to know my heart, because I'm on like, well, 1217 01:10:32,640 --> 01:10:37,559 Speaker 1: I'm angry, but you're right, I do. I get mad. 1218 01:10:37,600 --> 01:10:41,599 Speaker 1: I get mad all the time and it's okay, it's fine. Yeah, 1219 01:10:42,439 --> 01:10:45,120 Speaker 1: but you know, um, this is you know now I'm 1220 01:10:45,120 --> 01:10:50,280 Speaker 1: often the psychology. But but anger is a secondary emotion, right, 1221 01:10:51,120 --> 01:10:55,439 Speaker 1: Anger comes after her? Yeah? Right? So you know, after 1222 01:10:55,800 --> 01:10:59,040 Speaker 1: after I've been heard a compromise, you diminished in some way, 1223 01:10:59,160 --> 01:11:02,120 Speaker 1: shape or form. The response that I have to that 1224 01:11:02,840 --> 01:11:06,960 Speaker 1: is that I want that thing to stop. Whatever the 1225 01:11:07,040 --> 01:11:10,920 Speaker 1: pain whatever, the discomfort, whatever I'm feeling from this thing, 1226 01:11:11,080 --> 01:11:15,000 Speaker 1: this person, this event that is making me feel less 1227 01:11:15,040 --> 01:11:17,240 Speaker 1: than that is causing me whatever, this pain, I hate 1228 01:11:17,280 --> 01:11:19,120 Speaker 1: it because I wanted to stop. So my goal is 1229 01:11:19,200 --> 01:11:23,160 Speaker 1: to make the thing stop. But that happened first. I 1230 01:11:23,200 --> 01:11:25,200 Speaker 1: don't just you know, up and walk into a clothing 1231 01:11:25,280 --> 01:11:26,680 Speaker 1: store and see a pair of jeans and go I 1232 01:11:26,800 --> 01:11:31,960 Speaker 1: hate those. Nobody does. That hate is compared to something 1233 01:11:32,040 --> 01:11:34,519 Speaker 1: else's compared to an experience that you had that was great, 1234 01:11:34,600 --> 01:11:36,160 Speaker 1: that was something that you wanted to be a part of, 1235 01:11:36,560 --> 01:11:38,920 Speaker 1: And whatever causes the hate is the polar opposite of that, 1236 01:11:39,320 --> 01:11:44,320 Speaker 1: and you just wanted to stop. Okay, I'm gonna go 1237 01:11:44,360 --> 01:11:49,760 Speaker 1: back and listen to this podcast when I'm angry and 1238 01:11:49,840 --> 01:11:53,040 Speaker 1: I'm hateful. Any projects that I need to to talk 1239 01:11:53,160 --> 01:11:55,040 Speaker 1: up about before you go. I know you just said 1240 01:11:55,080 --> 01:11:58,840 Speaker 1: you're doing Worlse comedy Special Words. That is it on Netflix? Uh? 1241 01:11:58,920 --> 01:12:02,360 Speaker 1: It will be on HBO starting uh tomorrow Today is 1242 01:12:02,400 --> 01:12:06,800 Speaker 1: November No? No, no, it'll be this weekend. November twelve 1243 01:12:06,960 --> 01:12:09,559 Speaker 1: is when it premiers. Okay, this podcast airs on a Monday, 1244 01:12:09,640 --> 01:12:11,880 Speaker 1: so great people will have the opportunity to see it 1245 01:12:12,000 --> 01:12:14,200 Speaker 1: by then. If not I'll definitely tell them to check 1246 01:12:14,280 --> 01:12:17,960 Speaker 1: it out. Um. I appreciate your wisdom and more importantly, 1247 01:12:18,040 --> 01:12:23,400 Speaker 1: your your kindness. It's just a reminder for us to 1248 01:12:23,479 --> 01:12:28,320 Speaker 1: be kind in the world that sometimes doesn't feel very kind. Ali, 1249 01:12:28,560 --> 01:12:31,920 Speaker 1: You're great, You're just great. I love it. I'm gonna 1250 01:12:31,960 --> 01:12:33,880 Speaker 1: call Chloe and tell her. I guess who I talked to. 1251 01:12:34,000 --> 01:12:39,240 Speaker 1: And he was just great, this is great. Uh, you 1252 01:12:39,280 --> 01:12:42,240 Speaker 1: know it's cool that picture on the wall behind you. Uh, 1253 01:12:42,560 --> 01:12:44,840 Speaker 1: there's a guy that put out the album with that 1254 01:12:45,200 --> 01:12:50,240 Speaker 1: same photograph. I don't remember his name. I think it's 1255 01:12:50,240 --> 01:12:55,680 Speaker 1: Adam something. This this this photo. I went to this 1256 01:12:55,960 --> 01:12:58,479 Speaker 1: this guy's the hotel, like. I was shooting a project 1257 01:12:58,600 --> 01:13:00,439 Speaker 1: with a really good friend of mine named Jayson and Kennedy, 1258 01:13:01,040 --> 01:13:02,960 Speaker 1: and we went to the home of one of his friends. 1259 01:13:03,000 --> 01:13:06,240 Speaker 1: He was a billionaire by guy, and he had this 1260 01:13:06,600 --> 01:13:09,840 Speaker 1: in his house like life size and it was so 1261 01:13:10,880 --> 01:13:12,680 Speaker 1: powerful for those at home we can't see it. And 1262 01:13:12,760 --> 01:13:16,040 Speaker 1: it was like, what if you know? And he knew 1263 01:13:16,520 --> 01:13:19,920 Speaker 1: the photographer who captured this years ago before it was 1264 01:13:20,080 --> 01:13:25,080 Speaker 1: the racial reckoning of and years ago, and he just 1265 01:13:25,280 --> 01:13:29,600 Speaker 1: was like, if you if this shocks you, imagine what 1266 01:13:29,760 --> 01:13:33,160 Speaker 1: it really was like. It shouldn't shock you. The reverse image, right, 1267 01:13:33,280 --> 01:13:36,160 Speaker 1: the reverse image of a black man being hung is 1268 01:13:36,240 --> 01:13:39,040 Speaker 1: very familiar to us and doesn't make us feel uncomfortable. 1269 01:13:39,200 --> 01:13:42,720 Speaker 1: So why should this be so shocking? And I just 1270 01:13:42,880 --> 01:13:45,880 Speaker 1: made me feel like wow, let me think about a 1271 01:13:45,960 --> 01:13:49,720 Speaker 1: world not promoting hate. But I should not be I 1272 01:13:49,760 --> 01:13:53,200 Speaker 1: shouldn't be okay with the images of us being murdered 1273 01:13:53,240 --> 01:13:56,720 Speaker 1: and killed because that's what we've been told, right, I 1274 01:13:56,720 --> 01:13:58,599 Speaker 1: shouldn't be okay with that, and I should be okay 1275 01:13:58,640 --> 01:14:01,400 Speaker 1: with anyone, but just for us particular. Just to reminder, 1276 01:14:01,640 --> 01:14:03,800 Speaker 1: Kanye don't like it. I know that much. I'll tell 1277 01:14:03,800 --> 01:14:07,920 Speaker 1: you that. I'll tell you that. Ali, thank you so 1278 01:14:08,040 --> 01:14:10,040 Speaker 1: much for joining me on naked and being completely naked 1279 01:14:10,080 --> 01:14:12,720 Speaker 1: and making me think so much, too so much that 1280 01:14:12,800 --> 01:14:15,839 Speaker 1: you're on. Y'all, we've been blessed today. We've been blessed today. 1281 01:14:17,320 --> 01:14:19,200 Speaker 1: I'm getting I'm getting sun kissed. I was trying to 1282 01:14:19,280 --> 01:14:22,320 Speaker 1: find a decent light, but you know, I'm running around 1283 01:14:22,400 --> 01:14:24,679 Speaker 1: my spot. That's okay, you know, the sun keeps coming 1284 01:14:24,720 --> 01:14:26,840 Speaker 1: after me. I like it. I like it. I like it. 1285 01:14:29,000 --> 01:14:32,679 Speaker 1: Thank you. You're welcome. You're welcome, You're welcome. You Hey, folks, 1286 01:14:33,400 --> 01:14:35,479 Speaker 1: did you hear what the man said. If you were 1287 01:14:35,600 --> 01:14:39,000 Speaker 1: given a choice between doing something you love or something 1288 01:14:39,080 --> 01:14:40,920 Speaker 1: you hate, which one would you do. If you were 1289 01:14:40,960 --> 01:14:45,439 Speaker 1: given a choice between feeling one emotion versus the other, 1290 01:14:45,600 --> 01:14:49,600 Speaker 1: which one would you like to feel. It's difficult to 1291 01:14:49,800 --> 01:14:52,439 Speaker 1: feel hate. It's difficult to hold on the anger. It's 1292 01:14:52,520 --> 01:14:55,320 Speaker 1: hard to stay in that space. And if you can 1293 01:14:55,439 --> 01:14:58,800 Speaker 1: stay in that space, I advise you seek some help, 1294 01:14:59,600 --> 01:15:03,320 Speaker 1: some at vice um, a place in which you understand 1295 01:15:03,439 --> 01:15:06,519 Speaker 1: that you can't continue on that way. It's not healthy. 1296 01:15:07,760 --> 01:15:10,759 Speaker 1: That's why we as a culture black folks are so forgiving. 1297 01:15:11,479 --> 01:15:16,880 Speaker 1: I do believe that. I do believe that we were 1298 01:15:16,920 --> 01:15:18,640 Speaker 1: brought to a country that did not want us, and 1299 01:15:18,720 --> 01:15:22,439 Speaker 1: we stayed here, and we have fought our way to 1300 01:15:22,560 --> 01:15:27,920 Speaker 1: the top to existence, to find our place to stake 1301 01:15:28,000 --> 01:15:31,839 Speaker 1: our claim to be bold, and we continue. We continue 1302 01:15:31,880 --> 01:15:34,040 Speaker 1: to do it. We never stop as black folks, we 1303 01:15:34,160 --> 01:15:37,439 Speaker 1: never stopped. We always understand what it takes to be 1304 01:15:37,520 --> 01:15:39,320 Speaker 1: who we are in this world, and we also know 1305 01:15:39,439 --> 01:15:41,160 Speaker 1: how we show up in this world and how people 1306 01:15:41,200 --> 01:15:43,519 Speaker 1: see us. But at the end of the day, I 1307 01:15:43,560 --> 01:15:47,120 Speaker 1: have a friend who used to say black folks do trauma, well, 1308 01:15:48,560 --> 01:15:51,120 Speaker 1: meaning all of the things that we've been through. We 1309 01:15:51,360 --> 01:15:53,320 Speaker 1: find a way to laugh at it. We find a 1310 01:15:53,360 --> 01:15:55,200 Speaker 1: way to forgive, We find a way to move on, 1311 01:15:55,439 --> 01:15:58,040 Speaker 1: We find a way to push forward, even in spite 1312 01:15:58,120 --> 01:16:00,559 Speaker 1: of what we know will perhaps been in the end 1313 01:16:00,680 --> 01:16:04,400 Speaker 1: or perhaps um what will happen if we continue to 1314 01:16:04,479 --> 01:16:06,760 Speaker 1: stay in a certain space that they don't respect us in. 1315 01:16:06,960 --> 01:16:11,599 Speaker 1: We still push through more than more than most I think. 1316 01:16:13,240 --> 01:16:15,439 Speaker 1: And I'm not getting into struggles, and I'm not getting 1317 01:16:15,439 --> 01:16:19,560 Speaker 1: into who's whose injustice was worse. I'm not doing that, 1318 01:16:19,720 --> 01:16:21,000 Speaker 1: all right. I don't want to. I don't want to 1319 01:16:21,000 --> 01:16:23,080 Speaker 1: get into that. But what I do want to say 1320 01:16:23,280 --> 01:16:27,439 Speaker 1: is is that we have an incredible, incredible ability to forgive. 1321 01:16:28,640 --> 01:16:30,840 Speaker 1: And it's good to be reminded of that because it 1322 01:16:30,920 --> 01:16:34,040 Speaker 1: takes a lot to stay angry. I hope you enjoyed 1323 01:16:34,080 --> 01:16:37,839 Speaker 1: this edition of Naked. You gotta check out the special 1324 01:16:37,960 --> 01:16:42,240 Speaker 1: It's It's here, It's now on HBO Rail, directed by 1325 01:16:42,280 --> 01:16:44,720 Speaker 1: Ali le Roy. You gotta check it out. Also, go 1326 01:16:44,880 --> 01:16:48,840 Speaker 1: back and watch some some old episodes of Everybody Hates Chris? 1327 01:16:49,000 --> 01:16:51,920 Speaker 1: Why Not? Right? Why Not? What? What? What? Else? And 1328 01:16:51,960 --> 01:16:55,479 Speaker 1: I know there's a reboot and animated version Everyone Still 1329 01:16:55,600 --> 01:16:57,920 Speaker 1: Hates Chris an animated version that's coming out, so go 1330 01:16:58,080 --> 01:17:00,960 Speaker 1: check out as well. Uh I am a fan. I'm 1331 01:17:01,200 --> 01:17:05,559 Speaker 1: so glad I met Ali. Thank you all so much 1332 01:17:05,720 --> 01:17:16,439 Speaker 1: for joining me. I'll talk to you next week. M