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Speaker 1: Now here's a highlight from Coast to Coast AM on

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Speaker 1: iHeart Radio and welcome back to Coast to Coast George

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Speaker 1: Dory with you. Mark Goberback with us, author whose world

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Speaker 1: view has turned upside down in the late twenty sixteen

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Speaker 1: era when he was exposed to world changing science. This

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Speaker 1: science suggested that, contrary to mainstream assumptions, consciousness is not

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Speaker 1: produced by the brain. After researching extensively, he wrote an

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Speaker 1: end to upside down Thinking to interjuice with the general

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Speaker 1: public to these cutting edge ideas and in an effort

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Speaker 1: to encourage a global shift and scientific and exist sustential thinking.

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Speaker 1: Mark is now a partner at Scherpa Technology Group in

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Speaker 1: Silicon Valley, a firm that specializes and advises technology companies

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Speaker 1: on merging, in acquisitions, and strategy. He worked previously as

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Speaker 1: an investment bank analyst in New York. Mark, how in

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Speaker 1: the world did you get involved writing a book about aliens? George?

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Speaker 1: I asked myself that the same question, and welcome back,

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Speaker 1: by the way, thank you, it's good to talk to

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Speaker 1: you again. You know, when I started in twenty sixteen

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Speaker 1: kind of revising my worldview, starting with this topic of consciousness, Inevitably,

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Speaker 1: I began questioning everything and my research. As I dug

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Speaker 1: into things further and further, I saw that there was

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Speaker 1: a lot of evidence for the existence of non human intelligence,

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Speaker 1: and that led me to write another book, Fantastic. We're

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Speaker 1: going to talk about your first book later on this hour,

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Speaker 1: but let's talk about this new one and end Upside

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Speaker 1: Down Contact. The subtitle is important. You have always aliens

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Speaker 1: and spirits and why they're ongoing interaction with human civilization matters.

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Speaker 1: That's happening in a big way, isn't it. It is,

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Speaker 1: And it's amazing that we're starting to get more mainstream

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Speaker 1: conversation about this, that we're seeing congressional hearings and things

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Speaker 1: of that nature. These ideas have been taboo for such

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Speaker 1: a long time, and at least now they're part of

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Speaker 1: the discussion. There's still somewhat fringe, but people are asking

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Speaker 1: questions because if there's advanced life and it's interacting with

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Speaker 1: our civilization, we need to know about it. Tell me

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Speaker 1: about the tunal of the book and end to Upside

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Speaker 1: Down Contact. Well, I explore what I call six fallacies

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Speaker 1: about the notion of contact, and that's why I call

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Speaker 1: it upside down contact. The first is that contact isn't real.

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Speaker 1: That would be the mainstream consensus reality is that humans

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Speaker 1: are the top of the food chain. There's lots of

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Speaker 1: evidence to the contrary. But not only is there the

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Speaker 1: existence of non human intelligence, it's there's a spectrum of

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Speaker 1: what you might call good and evil. Some people I

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Speaker 1: see tend to think that these beings are exclusively good,

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Speaker 1: and some would say they're exclusively evil. To me, there's

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Speaker 1: a spectrum, and then there's some additional assumption fallacies that

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Speaker 1: I look at, For example, the notion that this is

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Speaker 1: just a fringe phenomenon where the beings exist but they're

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Speaker 1: not really interacting with us. I think there's a lot

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Speaker 1: of evidence that they are interacting with us now and

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Speaker 1: have been for a very long time. Why have you

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Speaker 1: grouped in the UFOs aliens with spirits, It's a great question.

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Speaker 1: I'm looking at contacts from the lens of non human intelligence,

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Speaker 1: and particularly based on my firework with consciousness. When people

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Speaker 1: are in near depth experiences, for example, they encounter other

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Speaker 1: beings and I personally haven't had those experiences, but it

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Speaker 1: makes me wonder whether the delineations were making are based

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Speaker 1: on limitations of human language, and maybe they are the

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Speaker 1: same species being called different names, or maybe they are

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Speaker 1: different species, but we don't know how to deli deliate

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Speaker 1: if people haven't actually had the experience defined for us

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Speaker 1: an alien abduction. So these are instances where a person

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Speaker 1: alleges to be taken aboard a craft and typically has

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Speaker 1: procedures done, often reproductive procedures done by these quote unquote

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Speaker 1: alien beings. And this to me sounded like a crazy thing.

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Speaker 1: And then I learned that the former head of psychiatry

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Speaker 1: at Harvard to study this extensively and concluded that people

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Speaker 1: were reporting these consistently and that they were not psychotic.

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Speaker 1: So this is a very important thing. If it's actually

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Speaker 1: happening where people are being taken aboard crafts. Now you

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Speaker 1: say yes, are you still on defense on that? I

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Speaker 1: think it's real. I would say if, because you just

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Speaker 1: never know. But I think there's a lot of evidence

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Speaker 1: for it. What do they want? Is it a hybridization program?

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Speaker 1: What are they doing? A great question? There does seem

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Speaker 1: to be a hybridization program. That's what's often reported is

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Speaker 1: that there is a species that's part human and part

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Speaker 1: which you might call it alien whatever. This other species

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Speaker 1: is or maybe multiple species. Now what they're doing, George,

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Speaker 1: there's a lot of debate among the researchers. So let's

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Speaker 1: take the John mac perspective from Harvard. Sure, he tended

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Speaker 1: to view these abductions as part of an evolutionary insurance program,

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Speaker 1: almost and this is based on what the abductees told him,

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Speaker 1: where it was essentially benevolent that if humanity just roid itself,

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Speaker 1: this would allow for the continuation of the species, and

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Speaker 1: abductions also would allow the abductees to have some kind

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Speaker 1: of a spiritual improvement, because that was often reported. Now

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Speaker 1: let's call that the positive take. There's also a more

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Speaker 1: negative take that has been suggested. David Jacobs from Temple

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Speaker 1: University has espoused this idea based on the abductees he's

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Speaker 1: spoken with, which is the notion that hybridization is to

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Speaker 1: create a covert race that wants to take over the

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Speaker 1: planet but would blend in with humanity and we wouldn't

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Speaker 1: necessarily know that they're actually hybrids when in chapter eight,

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Speaker 1: right about UFOs and nukes, tell me about that tie

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Speaker 1: you sure? So this is based on work done by

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Speaker 1: Robert Hastings. He wrote an extensive book several years ago

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Speaker 1: looking at cases where UFOs seem to be interacting with

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Speaker 1: nuclear missile facilities. And this occurs in two ways, where

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Speaker 1: these these crafts are appearing, where the nukes are turned

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Speaker 1: off in some cases and the people manning the nukes

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Speaker 1: are saying, what's going on here? And then there was

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Speaker 1: a craft reported And in other cases the nukes are

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Speaker 1: turned on but then not launched. So something seems to

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Speaker 1: be happening at these facilities, and people wonder why it

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Speaker 1: is it, because if let's say it is aliens that

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Speaker 1: are intervening, what's going on? And I listened to an

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Speaker 1: interesting interview with Philip Corso Junior. He's the son of

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Speaker 1: Philip Corso who wrote the book the day after Roswell,

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Speaker 1: and Philip himself claims to have worked on technology from

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Speaker 1: the crash site and gave it to companies and gave

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Speaker 1: it to companies exactly so technology in our world, he claimed,

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Speaker 1: came from this nineteen forty seven crash. What his son

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Speaker 1: said is that his father Philip spoke with Keller, who

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Speaker 1: worked on the nuclear bomb, Edward Teller, and allegedly Teller

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Speaker 1: said at the nukes somehow impacted other dimensions, and the

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Speaker 1: aliens began coming to Earth more after the nukes were

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Speaker 1: developed because they were being negatively impacted by the nuclear explosions,

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Speaker 1: So they have an interest in us not setting off nukes.

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Speaker 1: Do you think we were seated by the ets mark

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Speaker 1: they are gods? I don't know, but I'm much more

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Speaker 1: open to that than I used to be. Number One,

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Speaker 1: we're very new to the study of genetics, and I

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Speaker 1: think there's a lot will uncover about our own genes.

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Speaker 1: We're just starting to figure it out over the last

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Speaker 1: few decades. And if we look back at some of

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Speaker 1: the ancient stories, we could interpret those as ancient religious stories.

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Speaker 1: We could interpret those as cases of alien intervention. And

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Speaker 1: one famous case is that of Zacharia Sitchin, who talks

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Speaker 1: about the Anunaki race that came to Earth and genetically

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Speaker 1: modified humans to create us. Also, Paul Wallace, an Australian archdeacon,

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Speaker 1: has revised his views as traditionally Christian views to say, look,

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Speaker 1: if if we look at the Bible and also other stories,

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Speaker 1: the Bible references Eloheim as God. That's one of the

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Speaker 1: names for God, and that could be construed as a

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Speaker 1: plural term meaning multiple gods. And if you read Genesis

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Speaker 1: and the Bible. From that lens, you could say that

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Speaker 1: this was a group of gods that came in and

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Speaker 1: genetically created humanity. And there are other stories. He references

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Speaker 1: the popeal Voo from Mesoamerica and others from around the world,

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Speaker 1: from Nigeria, where it seems as though these cultures are

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Speaker 1: talking about advanced intelligences coming to Earth and intervening sometimes genetically. Mark,

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Speaker 1: did you come across anything that surprised you and your

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Speaker 1: worship research for the book? Yes, So, going back to

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Speaker 1: the topic of abduction, I was looking at studies done

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Speaker 1: on DMT dimethyl trip to mean psychedelic, and the work

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Speaker 1: done by Rick Strassman over the last few decades from

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Speaker 1: University of New Mexico. He was just trying to understand

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Speaker 1: the psychedelic DMT by giving it intravenously and what he found,

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Speaker 1: to his great surprise, is that people were reporting things.

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Speaker 1: First of all, they reported encountering beings like other intelligences,

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Speaker 1: but they also reported things that we hear from alien

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Speaker 1: abduction encounters. And this was coming from a scientist who

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Speaker 1: knew nothing about abductions at the time, and he said

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Speaker 1: his volunteers didn't know about abductions, and yet this was

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Speaker 1: being reported under the influence of DMT, which makes one

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Speaker 1: wonder what is happening. Is this a phenomenon of consciousness

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Speaker 1: where there's an unlocking of the brain that allows us

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Speaker 1: to access these other dimensions where these beings exist. I

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Speaker 1: don't know, what do you think of the Barney and

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Speaker 1: Betty Hilk case. So this is the first major abduction

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Speaker 1: case to hit the map in the early nineteen sixties.

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Speaker 1: I think it's very interesting. And the way I look

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Speaker 1: at abductions, George, is that I try not to put

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Speaker 1: anything on any one case because there's so many variables,

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Speaker 1: and this was a long time ago, and you know,

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Speaker 1: there's can be debates over the evidence. I think there's

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Speaker 1: a lot of evidence in that one. But to me,

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Speaker 1: it's the accumulation of cases. There are so many of them.

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Speaker 1: And there was a study it's called the Free Study

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Speaker 1: f r EE, done by Ray Hernandez and a number

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Speaker 1: of other credible scientists who studied over three thousand accounts

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Speaker 1: of contact with non human intelligence, and you find commonalities

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Speaker 1: when you look at thousands of cases, and that's just

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Speaker 1: one study. To me, that's more powerful than any one case.

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Speaker 1: Mark what happens to the people who've been abducted psychologically

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Speaker 1: after the fact. It depends, and John Mack who was

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Speaker 1: a psychiatrist at Harvard, talked about this that for some

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Speaker 1: people this was transformative in a very positive way, almost

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Speaker 1: like in the way a person has a near death

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Speaker 1: experience and comes back and is spiritually transformed. Actually, Kenneth

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Speaker 1: Ring from the University of Connecticut made this comparison of

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Speaker 1: near death experiences to UFO encounter a very positive spiritual transformation.

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Speaker 1: But mac also said that this phenomenon, if people didn't

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Speaker 1: absorb it in the right way, it could be very

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Speaker 1: traumatic for them, and indeed, for many people apparently it

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Speaker 1: has been traumatic. I haven't experienced it myself, so it

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Speaker 1: really depends I guess on the nature of the experience,

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Speaker 1: and then also for the person how they are able

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Speaker 1: to absorb what happened. It could be a horrible experience

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Speaker 1: for them. Cannon, Yes, absolutely, that's often reported, or it

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Speaker 1: could be something wonderful. Sometimes people have miracle healings. There

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Speaker 1: are many reports of that, and even in cases where

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Speaker 1: it is a horrible experience, similar to the kind of

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Speaker 1: spiritual awakening process where a person has a dark Knight

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Speaker 1: of the soul, a traumatic experience in life that then

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Speaker 1: leads to some kind of metamorphosis in a positive way.

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Speaker 1: That is reported sometimes in abductions. It's horrible, but then

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Speaker 1: they realize it has a positive effect way down the line.

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Speaker 1: I don't want to make this too controversial for you,

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Speaker 1: but when you read Genesis in the Bible and you

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Speaker 1: put an et for everything, fallen, angels, everything, it makes sense.

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Speaker 1: It does to me too, George. That's something I do

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Speaker 1: talk about in my book and End Upside Down Contact,

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Speaker 1: that we could view these stories, these ancient religious stories,

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Speaker 1: as actual history in some capacity, and the beings that

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Speaker 1: were described were just advanced beings. They weren't the universal

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Speaker 1: consciousness per se, but they are just more advanced than humans.

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Speaker 1: And that's when going back to the term eloheem. They

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Speaker 1: could be construed as a group of aliens that we're

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Speaker 1: intervening with humans, and that's what Genesis might be about.

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Speaker 1: And it doesn't negate one's belief in God by any means,

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Speaker 1: does it. No? It doesn't for me either. The notion

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Speaker 1: that there is a higher power still exists, but there

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Speaker 1: are many species that exist within the universe or universes

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Speaker 1: I think it's completely compatible. Mark. Every year, hundreds of

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Speaker 1: thousands of people disappear on this planet. They're just simply gone,

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Speaker 1: they vanish. Might they be abducted by ets and just

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Speaker 1: ever returned. It's certainly possible, because there are so many

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Speaker 1: of these cases of abductions. And Paul Wallace, the Australian

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Speaker 1: archdeacon that I mentioned, he references the legends of the

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Speaker 1: mammy Watta from Ghana and other areas of Africa, an

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Speaker 1: intelligent humanoid species that in their legends that abduct people

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Speaker 1: and take them and then actually sometimes bring them back

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Speaker 1: and the person comes back with greater health and some

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Speaker 1: positive as interesting, so they intermix with us. There is

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Speaker 1: a breeding program allegedly that's reported. So it does make

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Speaker 1: me wonder, George, are there other cases like this around

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Speaker 1: the world where people are taken and we don't know

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Speaker 1: why from our earthly lens, But maybe something is happening

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Speaker 1: with higher intelligences that is pretty traumatic, isn't it? I

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Speaker 1: would imagine. I haven't experienced it, but it sounds like

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Speaker 1: it could be very traumatic. I will say this though,

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Speaker 1: from my research, it appears that many people have their

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Speaker 1: memory essentially wiped. It's known as missing time. And this

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Speaker 1: even goes for Carrie Mollis, a Nobel Prize winner in chemistry.

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Speaker 1: He encountered what he called a glowing raccoon, Nobel Prize

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Speaker 1: winner in chemistry, and then a few hours passed and

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Speaker 1: he was back. This is a very common report. So

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Speaker 1: people remember something, then there's missing time, then they come

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Speaker 1: back and they don't remember what happened. So some of

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Speaker 1: that trauma might be masked if these beings are able

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Speaker 1: to somehow block our memory or maybe mask the memory

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Speaker 1: to make it look like something it wasn't. What's the

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Speaker 1: most important thing you want people to learn when they

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Speaker 1: read an end to upside Down contact? Well, I think

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Speaker 1: for me it's been very world changing in terms of

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Speaker 1: my worldview. To acknowledge that we're not alone and just

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Speaker 1: understanding reality better, I think helps us live in a

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Speaker 1: new way when we realize that we are not the

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Speaker 1: top of the food chain, and that there's a lot

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Speaker 1: going on beyond what we hear in our education system

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Speaker 1: and in the media. That's pretty dru matoic can alien's

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Speaker 1: shape shift? Well, I would have laughed at that question

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Speaker 1: a while ago, George, but even John Mack from Harvard

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Speaker 1: he said, based on his research that aliens appear to

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Speaker 1: be consummate shape shifters. That's what he said, because the

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Speaker 1: abductees were coming back saying that these beings are able

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Speaker 1: to appear differently. And I mentioned that the story of

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Speaker 1: the glowing raccoon from Carrie mullis. Yeah, that's a common report.

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Speaker 1: It's known as a screen memory, where the beings can

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Speaker 1: appear to be different things to people. An owl is

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Speaker 1: another one where the being appears as an owl, but

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Speaker 1: then later the person the being is remembered, perhaps under hypnosis,

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Speaker 1: as a type of alien. So it seems as though

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Speaker 1: they have they know how to manipulate reality in ways

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Speaker 1: that we don't understand from our human lens. What do

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Speaker 1: you think of those battle mark? This ongoing battle between

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Speaker 1: good and evil? Is it up there in the et

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Speaker 1: world too? I think it's in the et world, it's

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Speaker 1: in the human world, it's in all levels of reality.

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Speaker 1: There seems to be the spectrum of good and evil.

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Speaker 1: And for me, especially relating it to my previous book

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Speaker 1: and end Upside Down Liberty, looking at the global issues

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Speaker 1: we see today, it maybe wonder, you know, is there

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Speaker 1: an attempt to enslave humanity versus a competing agenda to

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Speaker 1: free and liberate humanity, And is that multidimensional? You know?

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Speaker 1: The more I research, the more I do think that's

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Speaker 1: the case. By knowing what we know about the possibility

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Speaker 1: of ets and abductions, what does that do for us? Well,

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Speaker 1: it gives us greater context to be able to think

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Speaker 1: about our reality and then live and act accordingly. But

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Speaker 1: so I say that on the one hand, on the

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Speaker 1: other hand, it can be a distraction from our own

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Speaker 1: personal spiritual evolution, and that's something I try to keep

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Speaker 1: in mind as I go through all this, because it's

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Speaker 1: very glamorous these phenomena. To think about shape shifting and

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Speaker 1: screen memories and abductions. It's really interesting and I like

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Speaker 1: that part of it and I want to learn about it.

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Speaker 1: But it seems, based on my research, that ultimately the

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Speaker 1: onus is on us as individuals to evolve our own consciousness,

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Speaker 1: and as we do that, maybe we'll be able to

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Speaker 1: reach a stage where we're interacting with these beings, the

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Speaker 1: benevolent ones, in a new way. So I think it's

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Speaker 1: important both to understand reality and that these beings exist

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Speaker 1: and to study that, but do not lose sight of

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Speaker 1: our own evolution. Listen to more Coast to Coast AM

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Speaker 1: every weeknight at one am Eastern, and go to Coast

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Speaker 1: to Coast am dot com for more