1 00:00:01,480 --> 00:00:04,960 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff you should know, a production of iHeartRadio. 2 00:00:11,119 --> 00:00:13,520 Speaker 2: Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh, and there's 3 00:00:13,640 --> 00:00:16,360 Speaker 2: Chuck and Jerry's here too. We're just a few river 4 00:00:16,480 --> 00:00:19,360 Speaker 2: rats hanging out thinking about rivers and such. 5 00:00:19,560 --> 00:00:23,160 Speaker 1: That's right. If you live in Wyoming, Colorado, Utah, Nevada, 6 00:00:23,480 --> 00:00:27,920 Speaker 1: New Mexico, Arizona, or California, this one's This one's for you. 7 00:00:29,560 --> 00:00:33,560 Speaker 2: Yeah. Or if you're interested in water supply, this one's 8 00:00:33,560 --> 00:00:40,760 Speaker 2: for you as well. If you like really difficult interstate treaties, 9 00:00:41,240 --> 00:00:42,600 Speaker 2: I think you'll like this one as well. 10 00:00:42,920 --> 00:00:47,120 Speaker 1: There's one person out there that's like, oh my god, guys, finally, 11 00:00:49,040 --> 00:00:49,640 Speaker 1: So yes. 12 00:00:49,479 --> 00:00:51,879 Speaker 2: We're talking about the Colorado River. We're talking about the 13 00:00:51,880 --> 00:00:55,840 Speaker 2: compact of water sharing among those states, the basin states 14 00:00:55,880 --> 00:00:59,440 Speaker 2: they call them, which is a pretty cool name of 15 00:01:00,080 --> 00:01:02,640 Speaker 2: sharing the water that comes out of the Colorado River, 16 00:01:02,680 --> 00:01:06,520 Speaker 2: which is about almost a fifteen hundred mile long river 17 00:01:06,959 --> 00:01:10,880 Speaker 2: that winds through the southwestern US all the way into Mexico, 18 00:01:12,400 --> 00:01:18,920 Speaker 2: and it helps feed all of those states, most of 19 00:01:18,920 --> 00:01:22,480 Speaker 2: which should not have the populations that they have and 20 00:01:22,560 --> 00:01:26,840 Speaker 2: wouldn't otherwise were it not for their ability to tap 21 00:01:26,920 --> 00:01:29,160 Speaker 2: into the water from the Colorado. 22 00:01:29,400 --> 00:01:32,000 Speaker 1: That's right. And by the way, I remembered halfway through 23 00:01:32,640 --> 00:01:36,720 Speaker 1: your opening salvo that this was a listener suggestion. So 24 00:01:36,760 --> 00:01:38,240 Speaker 1: I looked at up real quick, and this is from 25 00:01:38,280 --> 00:01:40,160 Speaker 1: George Bouncin. 26 00:01:41,400 --> 00:01:43,639 Speaker 2: Oh nice, Thanks a lot, George. This is a good idea. 27 00:01:43,760 --> 00:01:45,920 Speaker 1: Yeah, I agreed. So I bet George lives in one 28 00:01:45,920 --> 00:01:49,400 Speaker 1: of those states. But like you said, the Colorado River 29 00:01:49,560 --> 00:01:53,520 Speaker 1: very important. It provides I think Julia helped us with this, 30 00:01:53,600 --> 00:01:59,240 Speaker 1: and it supports roughly ten percent of Americans and one 31 00:01:59,240 --> 00:02:03,080 Speaker 1: point for trillion dollars economically. So it is a very 32 00:02:03,200 --> 00:02:07,480 Speaker 1: very important river system that starts there in the Rocky 33 00:02:07,520 --> 00:02:13,480 Speaker 1: Mountains and then flows generally southwest, and there are all 34 00:02:13,520 --> 00:02:16,960 Speaker 1: sorts of tributaries and things that feed into it. As 35 00:02:16,960 --> 00:02:18,880 Speaker 1: we'll see, that has become a bone of contention here 36 00:02:18,919 --> 00:02:21,120 Speaker 1: and there, but a lot of it is there are 37 00:02:21,200 --> 00:02:25,040 Speaker 1: bones of contention because this river compact that they forged 38 00:02:25,040 --> 00:02:27,600 Speaker 1: in nineteen twenty two to say, hey, how are you 39 00:02:27,639 --> 00:02:29,680 Speaker 1: going to divide this water up? Everybody wants to use 40 00:02:29,720 --> 00:02:35,000 Speaker 1: this stuff. It's it's up now this year, right in 41 00:02:35,040 --> 00:02:38,000 Speaker 1: twenty twenty six. Yeah, and they're trying to figure out, 42 00:02:38,639 --> 00:02:41,080 Speaker 1: you know, what to do about the next twenty years, 43 00:02:41,120 --> 00:02:45,040 Speaker 1: and there's especially between California and Arizona. But a lot 44 00:02:45,080 --> 00:02:48,919 Speaker 1: of the states have bones of contention with one another 45 00:02:48,960 --> 00:02:50,160 Speaker 1: on how this water is used. 46 00:02:50,840 --> 00:02:54,120 Speaker 2: Yeah, because there's almost a self defeating pickle that they've 47 00:02:54,120 --> 00:02:56,920 Speaker 2: been in just from sharing this. By having access to 48 00:02:56,960 --> 00:03:00,760 Speaker 2: that water, they've been able to boom like cities like 49 00:03:00,840 --> 00:03:07,400 Speaker 2: Las Vegas, Los Angeles, San Diego, Phoenix, Tucson. The list 50 00:03:07,480 --> 00:03:12,040 Speaker 2: just goes on. They are able to have these huge 51 00:03:12,080 --> 00:03:16,120 Speaker 2: populations in golf courses, in industry, and agriculture in the 52 00:03:16,120 --> 00:03:20,720 Speaker 2: Imperial Valley in California because of the Colorado River. So 53 00:03:20,800 --> 00:03:22,880 Speaker 2: that's attracted more and more people, which means you need 54 00:03:22,880 --> 00:03:25,200 Speaker 2: more and more water. So those bones of contention have 55 00:03:25,320 --> 00:03:27,840 Speaker 2: grown over the years. And now that it's one hundred 56 00:03:27,960 --> 00:03:32,320 Speaker 2: plus years old, Yeah, there's an issue. There's a problem 57 00:03:32,360 --> 00:03:35,360 Speaker 2: with this that we're going to see because this river 58 00:03:35,520 --> 00:03:38,120 Speaker 2: is like I can't take any more. 59 00:03:39,000 --> 00:03:40,800 Speaker 1: Yeah. Well yeah, and we're going to get into that 60 00:03:40,840 --> 00:03:43,560 Speaker 1: stuff too, because there's not as much water as they 61 00:03:43,760 --> 00:03:47,600 Speaker 1: thought there would be and it seems like it's getting 62 00:03:47,880 --> 00:03:51,200 Speaker 1: it's not coming back to the boom days for reasons 63 00:03:51,240 --> 00:03:53,760 Speaker 1: that we're going to talk about. But one thing we 64 00:03:53,760 --> 00:03:57,560 Speaker 1: should talk about is why water is so important out there, 65 00:03:58,080 --> 00:04:00,800 Speaker 1: And obviously one of the reasons is because there's not 66 00:04:01,040 --> 00:04:05,000 Speaker 1: much of it. Highs out in the desert can reach 67 00:04:05,080 --> 00:04:07,839 Speaker 1: over one hundred and twenty five degrees with great regularity 68 00:04:08,520 --> 00:04:11,920 Speaker 1: annual rainfall. This is near the Hoover Dam, and you know, 69 00:04:12,120 --> 00:04:14,000 Speaker 1: we did a great episode I think on the Hoover Dam. 70 00:04:14,400 --> 00:04:17,120 Speaker 1: Between the Vata and Arizona. Annual rainfall there is about 71 00:04:17,120 --> 00:04:21,320 Speaker 1: four inches. So the Colorado River is the thing. It's 72 00:04:21,640 --> 00:04:24,600 Speaker 1: the most key thing that we have at our disposal 73 00:04:24,760 --> 00:04:25,920 Speaker 1: to keep things alive. 74 00:04:26,680 --> 00:04:30,120 Speaker 2: Yeah. It's mother, lifeblood, life giver, that's what they call 75 00:04:30,160 --> 00:04:34,400 Speaker 2: it there. Yeah, so let's talk about the Hoover Dam. 76 00:04:34,839 --> 00:04:36,680 Speaker 2: Not just the Hoover Dam that one gets all of 77 00:04:36,720 --> 00:04:40,640 Speaker 2: the credit. There's also the Imperial Dam too. Yeah, that 78 00:04:41,120 --> 00:04:44,479 Speaker 2: diverts water to the All American Canal, which is a 79 00:04:44,640 --> 00:04:46,839 Speaker 2: very smart I think name, because it's one of those 80 00:04:46,880 --> 00:04:50,520 Speaker 2: things where if you dispute the water going there, they 81 00:04:50,600 --> 00:04:52,920 Speaker 2: could be like, well, you don't like the All American Canal? 82 00:04:52,960 --> 00:04:53,839 Speaker 2: Do you hate America? 83 00:04:54,000 --> 00:04:54,559 Speaker 1: Yeah? Sure. 84 00:04:55,520 --> 00:04:58,400 Speaker 2: So there's the Boulder Dam, now, the Hoover Dam and 85 00:04:58,560 --> 00:05:03,120 Speaker 2: the Imperial Dam. In both of those helped bank water 86 00:05:03,480 --> 00:05:07,080 Speaker 2: for what we know as the lower basin states and 87 00:05:07,240 --> 00:05:10,680 Speaker 2: the upper basin states are the ones responsible for essentially 88 00:05:10,720 --> 00:05:12,280 Speaker 2: filling those water banks. 89 00:05:12,680 --> 00:05:15,920 Speaker 1: That's right. So back when this, you know, in nineteen 90 00:05:15,920 --> 00:05:20,080 Speaker 1: twenty two, when this thing was first enacted and ratified, well, 91 00:05:20,120 --> 00:05:22,520 Speaker 1: I guess it was ratified a little more slowly over time, 92 00:05:22,560 --> 00:05:28,960 Speaker 1: as we'll see, but California and Arizona were developing much 93 00:05:29,000 --> 00:05:33,440 Speaker 1: more so than places like you know, Colorado and Wyoming. 94 00:05:33,960 --> 00:05:35,799 Speaker 1: So as far as the upper and the lower basin, 95 00:05:35,880 --> 00:05:39,280 Speaker 1: the lower basin areas were really exploding at the time. 96 00:05:40,040 --> 00:05:43,560 Speaker 1: If you were closer to those headwaters, you didn't have 97 00:05:43,640 --> 00:05:47,159 Speaker 1: those dams. There weren't opportunities to sort of divert that 98 00:05:47,279 --> 00:05:50,280 Speaker 1: water to save up for the future maybe, So all 99 00:05:50,320 --> 00:05:53,880 Speaker 1: of that water was going downstream where they were collecting 100 00:05:53,920 --> 00:05:56,039 Speaker 1: it and using it, which is sort of where the 101 00:05:56,080 --> 00:05:57,039 Speaker 1: animosity began. 102 00:05:57,120 --> 00:06:00,280 Speaker 2: I think, yeah, and the upstream states and grew that 103 00:06:00,320 --> 00:06:02,520 Speaker 2: we're using that water. We're like, well, wait a minute, 104 00:06:02,560 --> 00:06:05,240 Speaker 2: we want water too, Like what's going to happen? We 105 00:06:05,279 --> 00:06:08,520 Speaker 2: need something. We need somebody to come in and figure 106 00:06:08,520 --> 00:06:11,880 Speaker 2: out like how we can get our water too. And 107 00:06:12,080 --> 00:06:15,560 Speaker 2: there was a supreme Court decision that really scared the 108 00:06:15,680 --> 00:06:20,240 Speaker 2: upper states, the upstream states, which was the doctrine of 109 00:06:20,279 --> 00:06:24,640 Speaker 2: prior appropriation, which was applied to water rights. And the 110 00:06:24,920 --> 00:06:28,080 Speaker 2: prior appropriation basically means if you were the first one 111 00:06:28,120 --> 00:06:31,800 Speaker 2: to start using something from that point on, you have seniority. 112 00:06:32,000 --> 00:06:34,600 Speaker 2: So if you ever come up against the conflict between 113 00:06:34,640 --> 00:06:37,719 Speaker 2: you and somebody else, if you're the senior one, you 114 00:06:37,880 --> 00:06:42,239 Speaker 2: automatically get preference. And California and Arizona have been using 115 00:06:42,279 --> 00:06:46,599 Speaker 2: this water through water projects before, say like Colorado or 116 00:06:46,640 --> 00:06:51,039 Speaker 2: Wyoming or Utah, and that meant that they were going 117 00:06:51,080 --> 00:06:53,080 Speaker 2: to get the short end of the stick no matter what, 118 00:06:53,400 --> 00:06:57,080 Speaker 2: just because California and Arizona had these booming populations. 119 00:06:57,360 --> 00:06:59,520 Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure. And you know, to be clear, that 120 00:06:59,560 --> 00:07:04,160 Speaker 1: Supreme decision was basically that that first in time, first 121 00:07:04,160 --> 00:07:06,160 Speaker 1: and right applied across the state lines. 122 00:07:06,360 --> 00:07:07,680 Speaker 2: So yeah, yeah, good point. 123 00:07:07,720 --> 00:07:10,560 Speaker 1: You're sharing this river, but they were using it, so like, 124 00:07:10,760 --> 00:07:13,360 Speaker 1: sorry that you can't now take that away from them essentially, 125 00:07:14,400 --> 00:07:17,560 Speaker 1: But like you said, Colorado and Wyoming and other states 126 00:07:17,560 --> 00:07:19,000 Speaker 1: in New Mexico were like, well, we want to grow 127 00:07:19,040 --> 00:07:21,960 Speaker 1: one day and do these big projects too. We're just 128 00:07:22,000 --> 00:07:24,200 Speaker 1: not there yet. It's nineteen twenty two, give us a break. 129 00:07:24,920 --> 00:07:27,600 Speaker 1: So they got together to negotiate this thing, the Colorado 130 00:07:27,720 --> 00:07:30,960 Speaker 1: River Compact in Santa Fe, New Mexico, in November of 131 00:07:31,040 --> 00:07:35,040 Speaker 1: nineteen twenty two. Nice nuts and bolts. Wise, it's kind 132 00:07:35,080 --> 00:07:36,760 Speaker 1: of cool. It's the first time more than three US 133 00:07:36,840 --> 00:07:42,160 Speaker 1: states divided water among themselves. And we're going to talk 134 00:07:42,200 --> 00:07:43,680 Speaker 1: a little bit more about the law of the River 135 00:07:43,720 --> 00:07:45,680 Speaker 1: because it's got a lot of like tendrils to it. 136 00:07:45,760 --> 00:07:49,960 Speaker 1: But that established what would evolve over time as what's 137 00:07:49,960 --> 00:07:50,960 Speaker 1: called the law of the River. 138 00:07:51,760 --> 00:07:56,200 Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure. So here comes Herbert Hoover into our story. 139 00:07:56,280 --> 00:07:58,480 Speaker 2: If you were waiting for Hoover to show up, by god, 140 00:07:58,520 --> 00:08:01,880 Speaker 2: here he is president. No, he was the Secretary of 141 00:08:01,960 --> 00:08:05,640 Speaker 2: Commerce under President Warren G. Harding, but he did such 142 00:08:05,640 --> 00:08:08,560 Speaker 2: a good job he eventually became president and they renamed 143 00:08:08,600 --> 00:08:11,680 Speaker 2: the Boulder Dam the Hoover damn thanks to Herbert, Yeah, right, 144 00:08:11,880 --> 00:08:15,440 Speaker 2: or because of Herbert. So he steps in and says, hey, guys, 145 00:08:15,480 --> 00:08:18,040 Speaker 2: we need to figure out what's going on here. We 146 00:08:18,080 --> 00:08:21,360 Speaker 2: need to figure out how to basically let these water 147 00:08:21,480 --> 00:08:24,960 Speaker 2: thirsty states do their projects, because these are great projects. 148 00:08:25,000 --> 00:08:26,960 Speaker 2: We can all agree, but at the same time, we 149 00:08:27,040 --> 00:08:29,840 Speaker 2: need to make sure that these upstream groups when they 150 00:08:29,880 --> 00:08:32,160 Speaker 2: want to do their own projects, if they aren't do, 151 00:08:33,360 --> 00:08:36,240 Speaker 2: they'll have the water that they need. But we want 152 00:08:36,280 --> 00:08:40,480 Speaker 2: development throughout the system. That's the key, right. And most 153 00:08:40,520 --> 00:08:43,080 Speaker 2: people don't know what Herbert Hoover sounds like, but that 154 00:08:43,240 --> 00:08:46,280 Speaker 2: was an exact impersonation of what he sounded like in 155 00:08:46,320 --> 00:08:47,000 Speaker 2: the way he talked. 156 00:08:47,040 --> 00:08:51,040 Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, but here's the deal. He was like, you know, 157 00:08:51,120 --> 00:08:53,920 Speaker 1: let's not divide it up by states. Let's not apportion 158 00:08:54,000 --> 00:08:56,839 Speaker 1: it state by state, because that just makes too much sense. 159 00:08:57,360 --> 00:08:59,800 Speaker 1: He said, Let's split it. Split up the Colorado River 160 00:09:00,360 --> 00:09:04,880 Speaker 1: into two equal parts, and a lot equal amounts to 161 00:09:04,920 --> 00:09:08,760 Speaker 1: each half. So you got the upper basin and your 162 00:09:08,760 --> 00:09:11,040 Speaker 1: lower basin allotments and we'll talk about numbers here in 163 00:09:11,040 --> 00:09:16,280 Speaker 1: a second, sure, but within those, then you distribute by state, 164 00:09:17,640 --> 00:09:22,319 Speaker 1: like you've got the upper portion splitting it between I 165 00:09:22,320 --> 00:09:25,040 Speaker 1: guess everything. But California and Arizona, right, aren't they the 166 00:09:25,080 --> 00:09:26,200 Speaker 1: only two in the lower basin? 167 00:09:26,559 --> 00:09:27,959 Speaker 2: No, Nevada, I think is as well. 168 00:09:28,000 --> 00:09:29,079 Speaker 1: Oh, Nevada, that's right. Okay. 169 00:09:29,200 --> 00:09:30,320 Speaker 2: Yeah. 170 00:09:30,360 --> 00:09:33,880 Speaker 1: So the one proposal that they initially came up with, 171 00:09:33,960 --> 00:09:36,240 Speaker 1: though kind of one of the key early things was 172 00:09:36,280 --> 00:09:39,880 Speaker 1: they promised the lower basin, all right, you're going to 173 00:09:39,920 --> 00:09:43,640 Speaker 1: get some extra water here because you've already got these projects. 174 00:09:43,720 --> 00:09:46,560 Speaker 1: You're kind of grandfathered in because you've got these projects 175 00:09:46,559 --> 00:09:49,760 Speaker 1: and developments underway, so you're going to get some extra water. 176 00:09:50,240 --> 00:09:53,640 Speaker 1: And nobody really liked it. The lower Basin didn't even 177 00:09:53,720 --> 00:09:54,760 Speaker 1: like this idea to begin with. 178 00:09:56,040 --> 00:09:58,640 Speaker 2: No, Julia helped us with this, and she turned up 179 00:09:59,120 --> 00:10:01,960 Speaker 2: a quote from one of the men who was involved 180 00:10:01,960 --> 00:10:04,280 Speaker 2: in this compact in nineteen twenty two. He was the 181 00:10:04,280 --> 00:10:07,120 Speaker 2: one from the representative from New Mexico. He said, I 182 00:10:07,160 --> 00:10:09,720 Speaker 2: will register my vote as a yes, but I do 183 00:10:09,800 --> 00:10:12,160 Speaker 2: it only because to my mind it is the least 184 00:10:12,160 --> 00:10:15,160 Speaker 2: objectionable of the attempts that have been made to frame 185 00:10:15,200 --> 00:10:18,520 Speaker 2: the idea expressed in it, and not because I approve it. 186 00:10:18,840 --> 00:10:20,560 Speaker 1: Yeah, he held his nose and voted yes. 187 00:10:21,080 --> 00:10:23,880 Speaker 2: Yeah, And he apparently was not the only one who 188 00:10:23,920 --> 00:10:27,439 Speaker 2: did that. So they met twenty seven times. Yeah, they 189 00:10:27,520 --> 00:10:31,640 Speaker 2: finally signed the Colorado River Compact. And another great Hoover 190 00:10:31,760 --> 00:10:34,720 Speaker 2: quote is that this was a problem of more extreme 191 00:10:34,840 --> 00:10:38,240 Speaker 2: complexity than will ever be appreciated by the outside world. 192 00:10:38,880 --> 00:10:41,959 Speaker 2: And just after researching this for a little bit, I 193 00:10:43,000 --> 00:10:47,040 Speaker 2: kind of understand where he's coming from, the amount of 194 00:10:47,320 --> 00:10:50,680 Speaker 2: stuff that you would have to take into consideration to 195 00:10:50,720 --> 00:10:54,319 Speaker 2: do this even remotely fairly. Yeah, your eye on development 196 00:10:54,600 --> 00:10:59,480 Speaker 2: is just I can't imagine keeping all that stuff together 197 00:10:59,800 --> 00:11:02,760 Speaker 2: and coming up with it, let alone coming up with 198 00:11:02,840 --> 00:11:05,319 Speaker 2: one that you could get seven different states to finally 199 00:11:05,400 --> 00:11:05,880 Speaker 2: sign on. 200 00:11:06,120 --> 00:11:07,760 Speaker 1: There's no way. I mean, they all signed on, but 201 00:11:08,120 --> 00:11:10,000 Speaker 1: like he said, no one really thought it was super fair. 202 00:11:10,440 --> 00:11:10,640 Speaker 2: Right. 203 00:11:11,559 --> 00:11:14,560 Speaker 1: So the compact, like I said, divided things up into 204 00:11:14,559 --> 00:11:16,680 Speaker 1: the upper and the lower basin. And that divide actually 205 00:11:16,679 --> 00:11:19,400 Speaker 1: has a place, like a physical place, which is Lee 206 00:11:19,480 --> 00:11:20,920 Speaker 1: Ferry l. 207 00:11:20,960 --> 00:11:25,800 Speaker 2: E E f E r r Y, not Lee Perry, not. 208 00:11:25,760 --> 00:11:29,439 Speaker 1: Lee scratch Perry. That is at the border where the 209 00:11:29,559 --> 00:11:32,760 Speaker 1: river passes from the upper watershed to the lower watershed, 210 00:11:32,840 --> 00:11:35,760 Speaker 1: And that is where there's really unique place, quite frankly, 211 00:11:35,800 --> 00:11:39,400 Speaker 1: where all the tributaries upstream come together in this one 212 00:11:39,440 --> 00:11:42,960 Speaker 1: beautiful single stream before splitting back up again to other 213 00:11:43,000 --> 00:11:45,040 Speaker 1: branches on the other side. So they looked at that 214 00:11:45,400 --> 00:11:48,040 Speaker 1: and said, hey, Lee Faery, looks like probably a pretty 215 00:11:48,040 --> 00:11:52,720 Speaker 1: good spot to divide this into Colorado, Wyoming, New Mexico, 216 00:11:52,760 --> 00:11:57,480 Speaker 1: and Utah. And then like Joshua, one day say, Arizona, California, 217 00:11:57,520 --> 00:11:58,960 Speaker 1: and don't forget Nevada. 218 00:11:58,679 --> 00:12:03,360 Speaker 2: Chuck for sure. So yeah, it's also just for you 219 00:12:03,480 --> 00:12:08,559 Speaker 2: Grand Canyon fans. It's not the same Lee's Ferry. This 220 00:12:08,600 --> 00:12:10,600 Speaker 2: is lee Faery and it's nowhere near it. 221 00:12:10,880 --> 00:12:14,040 Speaker 1: I think if you're a Grand Canyon fan, you got 222 00:12:14,040 --> 00:12:15,160 Speaker 1: to know that by now. 223 00:12:15,520 --> 00:12:17,600 Speaker 2: You'd hope. So, but what if you're new to being 224 00:12:17,640 --> 00:12:19,400 Speaker 2: a fan of the Grand Canyon. You know you don't 225 00:12:19,440 --> 00:12:21,959 Speaker 2: want to and I don't want to set them up 226 00:12:22,120 --> 00:12:24,520 Speaker 2: to make fools of themselves around the campfire. 227 00:12:25,960 --> 00:12:27,960 Speaker 1: So they this is one of the problems. And we're 228 00:12:27,960 --> 00:12:30,000 Speaker 1: going to talk about this later too, but they did 229 00:12:30,520 --> 00:12:32,440 Speaker 1: a little bit of research on waterflow because they had 230 00:12:32,440 --> 00:12:34,000 Speaker 1: to figure out, like, all right, how much water is 231 00:12:34,000 --> 00:12:37,040 Speaker 1: that even And what they measured was sixteen point four 232 00:12:37,160 --> 00:12:43,280 Speaker 1: million acre feet, splitting that up into almost fifty percent 233 00:12:43,280 --> 00:12:46,360 Speaker 1: of each seven point five million acre feet per basin 234 00:12:46,440 --> 00:12:50,439 Speaker 1: in perpetuity, with the rest leftover for Mexico. And we're 235 00:12:50,440 --> 00:12:52,000 Speaker 1: going to talk about that, but just so you know, 236 00:12:52,160 --> 00:12:56,600 Speaker 1: a water a one acre foot of water is enough 237 00:12:56,640 --> 00:12:59,640 Speaker 1: water to submerge an acre of land to the depth 238 00:12:59,640 --> 00:13:00,520 Speaker 1: of one foot. 239 00:13:01,160 --> 00:13:02,240 Speaker 2: I came up with that one. 240 00:13:03,720 --> 00:13:05,200 Speaker 1: I knew I wasn't gonna have to make the Joe. 241 00:13:06,440 --> 00:13:08,319 Speaker 2: I knew that. You knew I was gonna make that joke. 242 00:13:08,400 --> 00:13:12,520 Speaker 1: You can't read that without thinking, what Josh, How Josh 243 00:13:12,600 --> 00:13:13,320 Speaker 1: waters is lawned. 244 00:13:13,520 --> 00:13:16,079 Speaker 2: That's how I would farm too. I would just submerge 245 00:13:16,120 --> 00:13:18,120 Speaker 2: the acres of land in the depth of a foot 246 00:13:18,160 --> 00:13:20,040 Speaker 2: and be like, Wow, I'm done with the irrigating for 247 00:13:20,080 --> 00:13:20,440 Speaker 2: the year. 248 00:13:20,520 --> 00:13:23,960 Speaker 1: That's right, here's your rice and crayberries. So an acre 249 00:13:24,000 --> 00:13:26,160 Speaker 1: of land at the depth of one foot or three 250 00:13:26,240 --> 00:13:30,560 Speaker 1: hundred and twenty eight hundred and fifty one gallons of water. 251 00:13:30,720 --> 00:13:33,560 Speaker 1: So they measured sixteen point four million acre feet of 252 00:13:33,600 --> 00:13:35,840 Speaker 1: that and split it in half, with the rest going 253 00:13:35,840 --> 00:13:36,400 Speaker 1: to Mexico. 254 00:13:37,080 --> 00:13:39,680 Speaker 2: Yeah. Mexico is like, hey, what about us, And they're like, 255 00:13:39,679 --> 00:13:43,000 Speaker 2: you get one point five million acre feet just from 256 00:13:43,120 --> 00:13:45,760 Speaker 2: us for friends. As friends, Mexico, we love you guys, 257 00:13:45,760 --> 00:13:48,439 Speaker 2: and they're like, oh, we love you back. So I 258 00:13:48,480 --> 00:13:51,400 Speaker 2: think they split Mexico's allotment between the upper and the 259 00:13:51,400 --> 00:13:52,600 Speaker 2: lower basin equally. 260 00:13:53,000 --> 00:13:53,280 Speaker 1: Yeah. 261 00:13:53,400 --> 00:13:58,480 Speaker 2: Right. There was also another group of stakeholders that kept 262 00:13:58,480 --> 00:14:01,840 Speaker 2: getting overlooked and there's still overlooked to some degree, and 263 00:14:01,880 --> 00:14:05,160 Speaker 2: that are the Native American tribes whose reservations draw water 264 00:14:05,240 --> 00:14:08,640 Speaker 2: from the Colorado River, and the only appearance they made 265 00:14:08,640 --> 00:14:11,040 Speaker 2: in the compact was nothing in this compact shall be 266 00:14:11,080 --> 00:14:13,800 Speaker 2: construed as affecting the obligations of the United States of 267 00:14:13,880 --> 00:14:15,760 Speaker 2: America two Indian tribes. 268 00:14:15,840 --> 00:14:16,720 Speaker 1: What does that mean? 269 00:14:17,080 --> 00:14:18,839 Speaker 2: It means that the Indian tribes are going to have 270 00:14:18,880 --> 00:14:21,160 Speaker 2: to fend for themselves in court if they want any 271 00:14:21,200 --> 00:14:26,280 Speaker 2: of this water. And apparently every time they did, the states, 272 00:14:26,360 --> 00:14:29,120 Speaker 2: the seven Basin states, at least some of them would 273 00:14:29,280 --> 00:14:31,920 Speaker 2: lobby behind the scenes, use their clout to try to 274 00:14:31,920 --> 00:14:37,800 Speaker 2: get the Native Americans to get them denied their access 275 00:14:37,840 --> 00:14:40,440 Speaker 2: to the water. Of course it is I think there 276 00:14:40,440 --> 00:14:42,760 Speaker 2: are thirty tribes that have a claim on it, and 277 00:14:42,840 --> 00:14:47,960 Speaker 2: right now I think twenty three are legally drawing water 278 00:14:48,040 --> 00:14:51,800 Speaker 2: from the Colorado to fulfill their needs. But that means 279 00:14:51,800 --> 00:14:55,200 Speaker 2: that seven have not had a chance to in over 280 00:14:55,240 --> 00:14:56,080 Speaker 2: one hundred years. 281 00:14:56,320 --> 00:15:00,360 Speaker 1: That's right. So as far as how this actually works, 282 00:15:01,040 --> 00:15:04,920 Speaker 1: over a ten year period, the upper basin has to 283 00:15:05,000 --> 00:15:09,520 Speaker 1: deliver at least seventy five million acre feet of water 284 00:15:09,560 --> 00:15:12,360 Speaker 1: to the lower basin, and they measure it there at 285 00:15:12,440 --> 00:15:14,520 Speaker 1: leaf aerry. That's like, that's why the dividing point is 286 00:15:14,560 --> 00:15:17,800 Speaker 1: say they're actually measure this water, and the upper basin 287 00:15:17,920 --> 00:15:20,960 Speaker 1: can store whatever they have left over after they've delivered 288 00:15:20,960 --> 00:15:23,480 Speaker 1: that to the lower basin and their portion to Mexico. 289 00:15:24,480 --> 00:15:26,600 Speaker 2: And then one other thing you kind of already mentioned 290 00:15:26,600 --> 00:15:32,040 Speaker 2: it those projects that were already underway were really close 291 00:15:32,080 --> 00:15:37,480 Speaker 2: to being developed. Yeah, they were allotted extra water until 292 00:15:37,520 --> 00:15:41,920 Speaker 2: I think Lake Mead reached five million acre feet the reservoir. 293 00:15:42,960 --> 00:15:45,520 Speaker 2: So yeah, after that it was like, nope, you get 294 00:15:45,520 --> 00:15:48,400 Speaker 2: your water from the same allotment as everybody else. 295 00:15:48,600 --> 00:15:51,240 Speaker 1: That's right. And once those projects are done, like for 296 00:15:51,320 --> 00:15:54,080 Speaker 1: all new projects, if you're in the lower basin, you 297 00:15:54,160 --> 00:15:56,840 Speaker 1: got to start using your reserve or your alitment rather. 298 00:15:57,280 --> 00:16:01,520 Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that fan of complex interstate treaty is 299 00:16:02,000 --> 00:16:03,160 Speaker 2: really happy right now. 300 00:16:03,640 --> 00:16:06,600 Speaker 1: I imagine, so you want to take a break, then yeah, 301 00:16:06,680 --> 00:16:07,160 Speaker 1: let's do it. 302 00:16:08,000 --> 00:16:34,960 Speaker 2: Okay, we're taking a break. So you can imagine that 303 00:16:35,040 --> 00:16:38,200 Speaker 2: there was a lot of problems once they came up 304 00:16:38,240 --> 00:16:41,160 Speaker 2: with this proposed plan to get everybody on board, and 305 00:16:41,200 --> 00:16:44,760 Speaker 2: in fact, Arizona didn't sign on until nineteen forty four, 306 00:16:45,280 --> 00:16:48,680 Speaker 2: like a couple decades later. Yeah, and the other six 307 00:16:48,760 --> 00:16:50,800 Speaker 2: were like, okay, we need to just rewrite this a 308 00:16:50,800 --> 00:16:54,400 Speaker 2: little bit so this can proceed forward without Arizona. And 309 00:16:54,480 --> 00:16:58,880 Speaker 2: I guess Arizona and California have always had this stand off, 310 00:16:59,480 --> 00:17:04,760 Speaker 2: this angry kind of tiff a row something like that. 311 00:17:04,880 --> 00:17:09,040 Speaker 2: Over water rights in California typically wins that one. 312 00:17:09,359 --> 00:17:11,800 Speaker 1: Yeah, what I couldn't find out is what did they 313 00:17:11,800 --> 00:17:12,680 Speaker 1: do in the meantime? 314 00:17:13,880 --> 00:17:16,240 Speaker 2: I guess they just took as much water as they wanted. 315 00:17:16,680 --> 00:17:20,160 Speaker 1: Okay, it's not like they said, that's my guess. Yeah, 316 00:17:20,240 --> 00:17:22,480 Speaker 1: all right, That's the one thing I couldn't quite find. 317 00:17:22,720 --> 00:17:25,199 Speaker 2: Because I mean, they wouldn't go like twenty years without 318 00:17:25,440 --> 00:17:27,960 Speaker 2: what They'd be like, Wow, we're just gonna go without water? 319 00:17:28,080 --> 00:17:30,440 Speaker 2: I would think not. I would guess they'd just take 320 00:17:30,560 --> 00:17:33,239 Speaker 2: whatever they wanted. What I don't understand then is if 321 00:17:33,240 --> 00:17:35,680 Speaker 2: they did that, why did they finally sign on if 322 00:17:35,680 --> 00:17:37,520 Speaker 2: they had unlimited water? You know? 323 00:17:37,840 --> 00:17:41,040 Speaker 1: Yeah, that listener who is really into the river projects 324 00:17:41,040 --> 00:17:42,040 Speaker 1: they're going to write and I'm. 325 00:17:41,880 --> 00:17:43,480 Speaker 2: Sure, yeah, we need to hear from them. 326 00:17:44,200 --> 00:17:46,280 Speaker 1: All right, So now I promise talk the law of 327 00:17:46,400 --> 00:17:51,040 Speaker 1: the river. That is the more complex set of laws 328 00:17:51,080 --> 00:17:55,520 Speaker 1: and compacts in court decisions and contracts and all these 329 00:17:55,520 --> 00:17:57,640 Speaker 1: guidelines and stuff that have been issued over the years. 330 00:17:57,680 --> 00:17:59,600 Speaker 1: It's all together called the Law of the River, but 331 00:17:59,640 --> 00:18:01,919 Speaker 1: the color Rudder River Compact is sort of the spine 332 00:18:01,960 --> 00:18:05,280 Speaker 1: of this. Yeah, but we do have to mention these 333 00:18:05,359 --> 00:18:07,680 Speaker 1: because a lot of them have popped up over the years. 334 00:18:08,600 --> 00:18:12,160 Speaker 1: There was the Boulder Canyon Project Act, which we previously 335 00:18:12,160 --> 00:18:16,320 Speaker 1: mentioned in nineteen twenty eight that officially ratified the River Compact. 336 00:18:16,640 --> 00:18:18,960 Speaker 1: But that's where the Hoover Dam came from. Boulder Dam 337 00:18:19,000 --> 00:18:22,200 Speaker 1: at the time, and that all American Canal And that's 338 00:18:22,240 --> 00:18:26,160 Speaker 1: when they officially apportioned everything out within that seven point 339 00:18:26,240 --> 00:18:30,920 Speaker 1: five million for each Arizona got for the lower basin, 340 00:18:30,960 --> 00:18:33,840 Speaker 1: that is, Arizona got two point eight million, California got 341 00:18:33,840 --> 00:18:38,919 Speaker 1: four point four, Nevada got point three million. Yeah, and 342 00:18:38,960 --> 00:18:41,080 Speaker 1: the upper basin went with a percentage, right. 343 00:18:42,160 --> 00:18:45,199 Speaker 2: Yes, I think Colorado got the most at fifty one percent, 344 00:18:45,240 --> 00:18:49,160 Speaker 2: in Utah twenty three, New Mexico eleven, and Wyoming fourteen. 345 00:18:49,320 --> 00:18:53,400 Speaker 2: Right right, So that was that's how they finally got 346 00:18:53,480 --> 00:18:57,240 Speaker 2: it a portioned that upper basin. That wasn't until nineteen 347 00:18:57,280 --> 00:18:59,600 Speaker 2: forty eight when they finally divided it all up. 348 00:18:59,760 --> 00:19:00,000 Speaker 1: Yeah. 349 00:19:00,080 --> 00:19:02,879 Speaker 2: And one reason that that could wait is because even 350 00:19:02,920 --> 00:19:07,320 Speaker 2: still today, those upper basin states use way less than 351 00:19:07,320 --> 00:19:11,639 Speaker 2: their allotment of water. I think California uses more water 352 00:19:11,760 --> 00:19:15,000 Speaker 2: than all of the upper basin states combined, even though 353 00:19:15,000 --> 00:19:18,560 Speaker 2: the allotment is different. Yeah, and I think that the 354 00:19:18,640 --> 00:19:22,199 Speaker 2: upper basin states have basically had to bow to the 355 00:19:22,240 --> 00:19:25,600 Speaker 2: idea of progress and just let the lower basin states 356 00:19:25,680 --> 00:19:27,560 Speaker 2: use more than their allotment of water. 357 00:19:28,040 --> 00:19:31,600 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's right. There was another and like you said, 358 00:19:31,600 --> 00:19:35,320 Speaker 1: that was nineteen forty eight for the Upper Compact. Nineteen 359 00:19:35,320 --> 00:19:38,920 Speaker 1: sixty three comes along. You have Arizona v. California, where 360 00:19:38,960 --> 00:19:41,760 Speaker 1: the decision was handed out. They were basically like, what 361 00:19:41,800 --> 00:19:44,480 Speaker 1: do we do with the surplus water in the lower basin, 362 00:19:45,040 --> 00:19:48,160 Speaker 1: And this decision said California Arizona split it at fifty 363 00:19:48,160 --> 00:19:55,199 Speaker 1: to fifty. But also these five Native American reservations and 364 00:19:55,280 --> 00:19:58,280 Speaker 1: some wildlife refuges and recreational areas, like they get some 365 00:19:58,359 --> 00:19:58,800 Speaker 1: water too. 366 00:19:59,560 --> 00:20:02,920 Speaker 2: Yeah. There's also you kind of mentioned how tributaries can 367 00:20:03,000 --> 00:20:07,120 Speaker 2: become its own bone of contention or point of contention. 368 00:20:10,119 --> 00:20:13,560 Speaker 2: I guess California was using tributary water before it got 369 00:20:13,560 --> 00:20:16,359 Speaker 2: to the Colorado River, because, like you said, all those 370 00:20:16,440 --> 00:20:20,000 Speaker 2: tributaries branched together and come together at Lee Ferry and 371 00:20:20,000 --> 00:20:23,840 Speaker 2: then brant out again. I guess California is just tapping 372 00:20:23,840 --> 00:20:27,320 Speaker 2: into one like do do do don't mind us. Yeah, 373 00:20:27,400 --> 00:20:31,000 Speaker 2: we're just taking upper basin water from one of the tributaries. 374 00:20:31,000 --> 00:20:33,320 Speaker 2: And the court was like, that's fine, that doesn't count 375 00:20:33,359 --> 00:20:35,040 Speaker 2: as Colorado River apportionment. 376 00:20:35,520 --> 00:20:38,440 Speaker 1: Yeah, that was nineteen sixty four, right with that decree. 377 00:20:38,800 --> 00:20:44,160 Speaker 2: Yeah, in Arizona one California. 378 00:20:43,600 --> 00:20:46,320 Speaker 1: There was the Colorado River Basin Project Act in nineteen 379 00:20:46,359 --> 00:20:49,960 Speaker 1: sixty eight that basically just green lit a bunch of 380 00:20:49,960 --> 00:20:53,119 Speaker 1: projects on both sides, you know, both basins, upper and lower. 381 00:20:53,440 --> 00:20:55,919 Speaker 1: But the key part of this one, I think was 382 00:20:56,040 --> 00:20:59,960 Speaker 1: it said, all right, if there are any overcap reserve 383 00:21:00,240 --> 00:21:02,960 Speaker 1: during water shortages, California gets the rights to those. 384 00:21:03,320 --> 00:21:06,040 Speaker 2: Yeah, because they had the earliest projects, so they had 385 00:21:06,080 --> 00:21:09,840 Speaker 2: that first in first right thing. Also, that act created 386 00:21:09,840 --> 00:21:14,400 Speaker 2: the Central Arizona Project, which brought water to Phoenix and Tucson, 387 00:21:14,560 --> 00:21:19,320 Speaker 2: and the population of Arizona doubled since nineteen ninety three 388 00:21:19,400 --> 00:21:23,920 Speaker 2: when the Central Arizona Project was finally complained. Doubled because 389 00:21:23,960 --> 00:21:27,119 Speaker 2: of the water that was diverted to Arizona from the 390 00:21:27,920 --> 00:21:28,720 Speaker 2: Colorado River. 391 00:21:29,160 --> 00:21:31,440 Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean it's gorgeous out there. I lived out there. 392 00:21:31,480 --> 00:21:34,359 Speaker 1: People always loved Arizona, but they were thirsty, so this 393 00:21:34,400 --> 00:21:35,080 Speaker 1: really helped out. 394 00:21:36,240 --> 00:21:39,120 Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure, it gets kind of dry out there. 395 00:21:39,800 --> 00:21:42,080 Speaker 1: Yeah. I lived in Yuma, and you know that's where well, 396 00:21:42,160 --> 00:21:45,320 Speaker 1: we'll see Yuma plays a part, huge part. Surprise pop 397 00:21:45,400 --> 00:21:47,280 Speaker 1: up appearance by Yuma coming up everybody. 398 00:21:47,600 --> 00:21:53,240 Speaker 2: Yep, let's see. There's also review mandated reviews every five years. 399 00:21:53,280 --> 00:21:55,720 Speaker 2: The Department of the Interior was directed to take over 400 00:21:55,800 --> 00:21:58,879 Speaker 2: managing this thing. And then in nineteen seventy three, thanks 401 00:21:58,920 --> 00:22:03,360 Speaker 2: to the Knicks Administration of all People, the Endangered Species 402 00:22:03,359 --> 00:22:07,840 Speaker 2: Act basically said you need to prioritize environmental protection over 403 00:22:07,960 --> 00:22:13,560 Speaker 2: development projects when they conflict, which wow, like is that 404 00:22:13,640 --> 00:22:14,520 Speaker 2: still in force? 405 00:22:15,480 --> 00:22:19,760 Speaker 1: Yeah? Probably not. One thing they decided to do in 406 00:22:19,800 --> 00:22:23,199 Speaker 1: nineteen seventy four was give Mexico better water. So the 407 00:22:23,240 --> 00:22:26,840 Speaker 1: Colorado River Basin Salinity Control Act said, all right, let's 408 00:22:27,000 --> 00:22:31,200 Speaker 1: get some salinity control going over the water that we're 409 00:22:31,200 --> 00:22:34,840 Speaker 1: sending down to Mexico, so you know, they need good 410 00:22:34,840 --> 00:22:35,560 Speaker 1: water down there. 411 00:22:36,520 --> 00:22:40,040 Speaker 2: And then along came a drought, a drought that lasted 412 00:22:40,040 --> 00:22:43,640 Speaker 2: from the year two thousand. In the year two thousand 413 00:22:44,400 --> 00:22:49,280 Speaker 2: to twenty twenty three, and by two thousand and seven, 414 00:22:49,520 --> 00:22:53,560 Speaker 2: the basin states were like, hey, hey, the river's not 415 00:22:53,680 --> 00:22:55,800 Speaker 2: flowing quite as much as it used to. So they 416 00:22:55,840 --> 00:22:59,320 Speaker 2: got together and they basically like, we need to coordinate 417 00:22:59,720 --> 00:23:03,399 Speaker 2: these discharges from Lake Mead and Lake Powell down to 418 00:23:03,480 --> 00:23:08,159 Speaker 2: the lower basin states because these allotments were not the 419 00:23:08,680 --> 00:23:11,080 Speaker 2: river's not keeping up with the allotments anymore. We need 420 00:23:11,119 --> 00:23:15,639 Speaker 2: to rethink this. And they started to really take notice 421 00:23:15,680 --> 00:23:18,879 Speaker 2: of this change that the river was undergoing starting in 422 00:23:18,880 --> 00:23:21,240 Speaker 2: two thousand and seven, and since then it's just gotten 423 00:23:21,240 --> 00:23:23,840 Speaker 2: worse and worse and become more and more critical. 424 00:23:24,600 --> 00:23:27,320 Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure. That led to twenty nineteen with a 425 00:23:27,400 --> 00:23:30,879 Speaker 1: drought Contingency Plan, which is basically just like, hey, we 426 00:23:30,920 --> 00:23:34,639 Speaker 1: all need to work together with conservation here because this 427 00:23:34,720 --> 00:23:36,960 Speaker 1: drought is murdering us. 428 00:23:37,400 --> 00:23:39,919 Speaker 2: Yeah. That meeting was like when they cut to the 429 00:23:40,000 --> 00:23:44,800 Speaker 2: control tower and airplane and everybody's just losing their minds. Yeah, 430 00:23:45,200 --> 00:23:46,520 Speaker 2: that's what that meeting looks. 431 00:23:46,840 --> 00:23:49,240 Speaker 1: Yeah for sure, Chuck, I feel like. 432 00:23:49,240 --> 00:23:52,280 Speaker 2: We've reached another great place for a break. What say 433 00:23:52,320 --> 00:23:55,040 Speaker 2: you about taking a break? 434 00:23:55,920 --> 00:24:21,679 Speaker 1: Let's do it all right, So we're back. We mentioned, 435 00:24:21,720 --> 00:24:25,760 Speaker 1: you know, that long drought and conservation efforts that were 436 00:24:25,840 --> 00:24:29,760 Speaker 1: happening and are happening, but aren't nearly enough, and we 437 00:24:29,800 --> 00:24:31,960 Speaker 1: need to talk about some of the reasons why it's 438 00:24:32,000 --> 00:24:34,920 Speaker 1: not enough and what's going on out there. And one 439 00:24:34,960 --> 00:24:38,720 Speaker 1: of the problems is that you know, I mentioned early 440 00:24:38,760 --> 00:24:41,280 Speaker 1: on when they calculated the flow of the river at 441 00:24:41,400 --> 00:24:45,520 Speaker 1: sixteen point four million acre feet per year, this was 442 00:24:45,680 --> 00:24:51,439 Speaker 1: one hydrology study that was done in Yuma, Arizona. Of 443 00:24:51,480 --> 00:24:54,440 Speaker 1: all cases up, it's very strange they went down to Yuma. 444 00:24:54,720 --> 00:24:57,400 Speaker 1: It was based on a single set of measurement measurements. 445 00:24:57,440 --> 00:24:59,120 Speaker 1: This is if you don't know where Yuma is, it's 446 00:24:59,320 --> 00:25:02,240 Speaker 1: hundreds of min downstream from Lee F. Ferry. 447 00:25:02,920 --> 00:25:04,600 Speaker 2: Some people are like, oh, oh, okay. 448 00:25:04,960 --> 00:25:07,040 Speaker 1: Yeah, So it didn't make a lot of sense to 449 00:25:07,119 --> 00:25:11,760 Speaker 1: do right there, and much less just do one. So 450 00:25:12,080 --> 00:25:16,679 Speaker 1: they had another available study. Even at the time, there 451 00:25:16,720 --> 00:25:20,320 Speaker 1: was a survey from a hydrologists named Eugene Clyde LaRue 452 00:25:20,880 --> 00:25:23,480 Speaker 1: who hiked hundreds of miles all up and down the 453 00:25:23,480 --> 00:25:27,880 Speaker 1: Colorado River taking measurements all over the place. Yeah, and 454 00:25:27,920 --> 00:25:32,480 Speaker 1: that had about a million and a half gallons less. 455 00:25:32,320 --> 00:25:35,160 Speaker 2: Per year acre feet even, And. 456 00:25:35,160 --> 00:25:38,639 Speaker 1: They said let's go with that other one because sixteen 457 00:25:38,680 --> 00:25:42,160 Speaker 1: point four million is a higher number, and we think 458 00:25:42,240 --> 00:25:43,879 Speaker 1: that's just the one we should go with. And that 459 00:25:43,960 --> 00:25:44,800 Speaker 1: was a big mistake. 460 00:25:45,160 --> 00:25:47,439 Speaker 2: That's ultimately what they did. I saw that there was 461 00:25:47,480 --> 00:25:51,720 Speaker 2: a total that LaRue study was widely available. People knew 462 00:25:51,760 --> 00:25:55,080 Speaker 2: about it, and they were like, nah, that was That 463 00:25:55,200 --> 00:25:58,760 Speaker 2: means that the agreement overstretched the water supply from the 464 00:25:58,760 --> 00:26:02,600 Speaker 2: Colorado River. From the very first day. It was never 465 00:26:02,680 --> 00:26:05,439 Speaker 2: able to supply the all of the water that was 466 00:26:05,480 --> 00:26:07,000 Speaker 2: being divided among the states. 467 00:26:07,040 --> 00:26:10,200 Speaker 1: That was a huge, huge. 468 00:26:09,920 --> 00:26:14,199 Speaker 2: Problem from the outset right. And in fact, scientists have 469 00:26:14,440 --> 00:26:17,320 Speaker 2: estimated that the basin states have been taking about a 470 00:26:17,480 --> 00:26:22,880 Speaker 2: million acre feet per year over what the river can 471 00:26:23,040 --> 00:26:27,720 Speaker 2: supply for decades, and right now they think that the 472 00:26:28,240 --> 00:26:32,199 Speaker 2: river's producing about thirteen million acre feet per year. So 473 00:26:32,240 --> 00:26:36,159 Speaker 2: even if they had gone with LaRue's estimate a fifteen 474 00:26:36,160 --> 00:26:40,600 Speaker 2: million acre feet, it would be producing less now. And 475 00:26:40,640 --> 00:26:43,040 Speaker 2: not all of it is because more water is being 476 00:26:43,119 --> 00:26:46,320 Speaker 2: drawn from it than it can provide. And a lot 477 00:26:46,359 --> 00:26:48,320 Speaker 2: of that instead has to do with the fact that 478 00:26:48,400 --> 00:26:52,400 Speaker 2: seventy percent of the Colorado River's water flow comes from 479 00:26:52,440 --> 00:26:55,080 Speaker 2: snow melt from the rockies. And I don't know what 480 00:26:55,160 --> 00:26:57,000 Speaker 2: to tell you if you don't believe in climate change. 481 00:26:57,000 --> 00:26:59,640 Speaker 2: But the Rockies ain't been getting nearly as much snow 482 00:26:59,640 --> 00:27:03,960 Speaker 2: every year year in general as it used to, and 483 00:27:04,080 --> 00:27:06,639 Speaker 2: as a result, the Colorado River is shrunk to eighty 484 00:27:06,680 --> 00:27:12,199 Speaker 2: percent of its flow compared to I think the nineteen nineties. 485 00:27:12,480 --> 00:27:15,920 Speaker 1: Yeah, so that's a big problem. Another problem is how 486 00:27:15,960 --> 00:27:18,920 Speaker 1: this water is being used and how it's always been used. 487 00:27:19,880 --> 00:27:23,440 Speaker 1: If you're talking residential use, commercial use, industrial use, it's 488 00:27:23,480 --> 00:27:26,320 Speaker 1: only about twenty to twenty five percent of the Colorado River. 489 00:27:26,600 --> 00:27:27,240 Speaker 2: Yeah, get this. 490 00:27:27,560 --> 00:27:31,720 Speaker 1: The rest of that is agriculture, and specifically agriculture to 491 00:27:31,920 --> 00:27:37,919 Speaker 1: mainly grow alfalfa and hay to feed cattle. And if 492 00:27:37,960 --> 00:27:41,359 Speaker 1: you're wondering why in the world did anyone ever decide 493 00:27:41,600 --> 00:27:44,240 Speaker 1: to raise cattle out in the middle of the desert, 494 00:27:45,680 --> 00:27:48,960 Speaker 1: it's because of the eighteen seventy seven Desert Land Act. 495 00:27:50,040 --> 00:27:52,399 Speaker 1: I think you can walk us through that. But Julia 496 00:27:52,440 --> 00:27:55,080 Speaker 1: found a quote though from a guy from a vox 497 00:27:55,119 --> 00:27:58,320 Speaker 1: Media article named Kenny Terrella. He said, if policymakers and 498 00:27:58,359 --> 00:28:01,320 Speaker 1: agricultural researchers were to start our food system from scratch, 499 00:28:01,680 --> 00:28:03,840 Speaker 1: they probably wouldn't put a bunch of cows in the 500 00:28:03,880 --> 00:28:04,720 Speaker 1: middle of a desert. 501 00:28:05,160 --> 00:28:07,160 Speaker 2: Yeah, and there's there's a lot of reasons for that. 502 00:28:07,200 --> 00:28:09,800 Speaker 2: They suck up a lot of water because that half 503 00:28:09,840 --> 00:28:13,000 Speaker 2: of that water going to just grow. Hey, that doesn't 504 00:28:13,040 --> 00:28:16,320 Speaker 2: include all the water the cattle drink themselves. Their hoofs 505 00:28:16,359 --> 00:28:19,920 Speaker 2: compact the arid soil more so that soil is less 506 00:28:19,920 --> 00:28:24,040 Speaker 2: able to hold moisture when it does get water. And yeah, 507 00:28:24,080 --> 00:28:26,720 Speaker 2: the reason that it happened is that that Desert Land Act, 508 00:28:26,800 --> 00:28:30,000 Speaker 2: like you said, that was essentially created to send people 509 00:28:30,040 --> 00:28:32,919 Speaker 2: out to improve the desert, go figure out good stuff 510 00:28:32,960 --> 00:28:35,840 Speaker 2: to develop the desert. And the idea in and of 511 00:28:35,880 --> 00:28:39,000 Speaker 2: itself was good. You could just go up and be like, 512 00:28:39,040 --> 00:28:41,040 Speaker 2: I want some land please, and they would give you 513 00:28:41,080 --> 00:28:43,760 Speaker 2: some land and you would go farm it. There were 514 00:28:43,760 --> 00:28:47,200 Speaker 2: two keys. One you didn't have to live there, and 515 00:28:47,320 --> 00:28:51,240 Speaker 2: two corporations got a bunch of people to go in 516 00:28:51,320 --> 00:28:54,960 Speaker 2: and act as their agents dummies essentially, and get the 517 00:28:55,160 --> 00:28:57,920 Speaker 2: land that they then turned around and sold to the 518 00:28:57,920 --> 00:29:01,000 Speaker 2: corporation for next to nothing. The corporation put huge amounts 519 00:29:01,000 --> 00:29:03,840 Speaker 2: of land together and started raising cattle on it. So 520 00:29:04,040 --> 00:29:07,960 Speaker 2: corporations cattle corporations have had a stranglehold on this area 521 00:29:08,000 --> 00:29:10,560 Speaker 2: for a very long time. And they've been able to 522 00:29:10,600 --> 00:29:13,200 Speaker 2: dictate a lot of the water policy, which is why 523 00:29:13,800 --> 00:29:17,600 Speaker 2: agriculture is such a huge part of water consumption in 524 00:29:17,640 --> 00:29:18,200 Speaker 2: this area. 525 00:29:18,560 --> 00:29:21,240 Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure. And you know, like you mentioned earlier 526 00:29:21,280 --> 00:29:24,440 Speaker 1: that the snow melt not happening. There's been such a 527 00:29:24,520 --> 00:29:28,400 Speaker 1: drop that basically we're in danger of what's called the 528 00:29:28,880 --> 00:29:32,600 Speaker 1: deadpool state, which is water flowing into a dam but 529 00:29:32,760 --> 00:29:35,800 Speaker 1: not enough water coming in to flow back out. So 530 00:29:36,000 --> 00:29:41,960 Speaker 1: they're basically saying that what is this Lake Powell later 531 00:29:42,040 --> 00:29:44,560 Speaker 1: this year, I guess this is twenty twenty six, the 532 00:29:44,600 --> 00:29:46,680 Speaker 1: water level might drop so low that it's not even 533 00:29:46,680 --> 00:29:49,240 Speaker 1: going to spend those turbines anymore. And that means you're 534 00:29:49,240 --> 00:29:52,720 Speaker 1: not generating hydropower at Glenn Canyon Dam anymore. And that's 535 00:29:52,720 --> 00:29:53,880 Speaker 1: a big, big problem. 536 00:29:54,320 --> 00:29:58,760 Speaker 2: And then the next problem beneath that is that the 537 00:29:58,800 --> 00:30:01,320 Speaker 2: water level isn't even high enough to make it through 538 00:30:01,320 --> 00:30:04,200 Speaker 2: the pen stocks, which basically are like, we're not even 539 00:30:04,280 --> 00:30:06,360 Speaker 2: messing with the turbines anymore, we're just trying to get 540 00:30:06,400 --> 00:30:10,080 Speaker 2: water out of the reservoir down to the lower basin states. 541 00:30:10,360 --> 00:30:13,360 Speaker 2: If the water levels go below those penstocks, that means 542 00:30:13,480 --> 00:30:16,640 Speaker 2: the water's not going to make it downstream, which means 543 00:30:16,640 --> 00:30:18,920 Speaker 2: that all of those areas have been choked off from 544 00:30:18,920 --> 00:30:23,640 Speaker 2: their source of water, which is really really bad, like 545 00:30:23,800 --> 00:30:28,440 Speaker 2: catastrophic level bad. The electricity is bad enough, but the 546 00:30:28,480 --> 00:30:31,480 Speaker 2: water is just will that would do it for those. 547 00:30:31,320 --> 00:30:35,040 Speaker 1: Areas, Yeah, for sure. So they're trying to figure this 548 00:30:35,080 --> 00:30:38,240 Speaker 1: out obviously, because this is a big problem as the 549 00:30:38,320 --> 00:30:42,600 Speaker 1: River Compact is coming due for reupping or renegotiating or whatever. 550 00:30:43,600 --> 00:30:47,200 Speaker 1: In twenty twenty four, the basin states got together and 551 00:30:47,200 --> 00:30:49,440 Speaker 1: they were like, all right, here's our proposals for twenty 552 00:30:49,480 --> 00:30:52,720 Speaker 1: twenty six to deal with what we're dealing with now 553 00:30:52,760 --> 00:30:55,800 Speaker 1: and also to try and safeguard against the future and 554 00:30:55,840 --> 00:30:58,280 Speaker 1: do it maybe in a more fair way. And the 555 00:30:58,320 --> 00:31:03,480 Speaker 1: lower basin approach, California, Nevada, and Arizona. They said, all right, 556 00:31:03,600 --> 00:31:08,000 Speaker 1: let's have conservation measures that are triggered based on average 557 00:31:08,000 --> 00:31:12,040 Speaker 1: capacities of everything combined, like not just our portion, and 558 00:31:12,080 --> 00:31:16,280 Speaker 1: we all share these reductions together as well, and we're 559 00:31:16,280 --> 00:31:18,280 Speaker 1: committing to being, you know, a part of that. 560 00:31:19,280 --> 00:31:23,239 Speaker 2: Yes, And the upper Basin said, nah, we're not going 561 00:31:23,320 --> 00:31:25,440 Speaker 2: to go along with that. Is in fact, we're not 562 00:31:25,520 --> 00:31:29,600 Speaker 2: going to commit to any cuts whatsoever because frankly, you 563 00:31:29,640 --> 00:31:31,800 Speaker 2: guys have been using all the water up to this time, 564 00:31:31,840 --> 00:31:33,880 Speaker 2: and we are sick of it. We're not going to 565 00:31:33,960 --> 00:31:38,160 Speaker 2: do anything what it seems like, right, yeah, and so yeah, 566 00:31:38,240 --> 00:31:41,640 Speaker 2: they're like California, Arizona. They're like Nevada, You're okay, sorry, 567 00:31:41,640 --> 00:31:44,000 Speaker 2: you're wrapped up in this. But California and Arizona have 568 00:31:44,040 --> 00:31:47,320 Speaker 2: been using way more water than was their share, and 569 00:31:47,560 --> 00:31:50,520 Speaker 2: so now we have this conflict between the lower basin 570 00:31:50,560 --> 00:31:53,720 Speaker 2: approach and the Upper Basin approach and the stalemate. It 571 00:31:53,800 --> 00:31:56,560 Speaker 2: keeps getting kicked down the road, and they just blew 572 00:31:56,600 --> 00:32:02,360 Speaker 2: past their most recent deadline of February thirteenth, twenty twenty six. Yeah, 573 00:32:02,880 --> 00:32:05,640 Speaker 2: which was a Friday the thirteenth, which is also my 574 00:32:05,720 --> 00:32:08,880 Speaker 2: anniversary too. Oh yeah, yeah, but this was a bat 575 00:32:09,120 --> 00:32:12,320 Speaker 2: late anniversary. Thank you very much. But as far as 576 00:32:12,400 --> 00:32:14,960 Speaker 2: the basin states were concerned, it was not a happy 577 00:32:14,960 --> 00:32:16,080 Speaker 2: Friday the thirteenth. 578 00:32:16,440 --> 00:32:18,280 Speaker 1: No, it wasn't. How long you've been married, by. 579 00:32:18,240 --> 00:32:22,640 Speaker 2: The way, let's see, fourteen years now. 580 00:32:22,840 --> 00:32:24,600 Speaker 1: That's Josh Mathough. What would you me say? 581 00:32:25,120 --> 00:32:28,080 Speaker 2: She would say, that's close at fourteenth fourteen. 582 00:32:28,200 --> 00:32:29,360 Speaker 1: That's nice, nice work. 583 00:32:29,680 --> 00:32:32,080 Speaker 2: Yeah, thank you. I didn't have to come up with 584 00:32:32,120 --> 00:32:33,840 Speaker 2: a percentage or anything right. 585 00:32:33,840 --> 00:32:39,920 Speaker 1: Right or big max. So in January of this year, 586 00:32:39,960 --> 00:32:42,120 Speaker 1: I mean that was February. They blew past the deadline. 587 00:32:42,120 --> 00:32:46,160 Speaker 1: But the Feds basically said in January of this year, like, hey, 588 00:32:46,840 --> 00:32:50,640 Speaker 1: like this is getting tiresome and basically sort of like 589 00:32:50,960 --> 00:32:53,760 Speaker 1: the parents walking in the room and saying, Hey, if 590 00:32:53,760 --> 00:32:57,240 Speaker 1: you guys don't get a framework together yourselves and work together, 591 00:32:57,360 --> 00:32:59,040 Speaker 1: we're going to do it for you. And we know 592 00:32:59,120 --> 00:33:02,440 Speaker 1: nobody wants that. They released a sixteen hundred page report 593 00:33:03,000 --> 00:33:07,240 Speaker 1: with options basically saying, hey, this is we're going to 594 00:33:07,320 --> 00:33:09,240 Speaker 1: do this for you if you don't work it out. 595 00:33:09,720 --> 00:33:16,480 Speaker 2: Yeah, and remember that prior appropriation doctrine. Yeah, that's essentially 596 00:33:16,520 --> 00:33:21,440 Speaker 2: what will be enforced. That's like the basic option that 597 00:33:21,480 --> 00:33:24,680 Speaker 2: the federal government would probably choose if the states don't 598 00:33:24,720 --> 00:33:27,360 Speaker 2: come up with their own plan. Yeah, And that means 599 00:33:27,400 --> 00:33:30,800 Speaker 2: Arizona is toast and California is going to be just 600 00:33:30,920 --> 00:33:35,000 Speaker 2: fine because California has the oldest projects and I think 601 00:33:35,640 --> 00:33:41,120 Speaker 2: or Arizona has some of the youngest projects. That's that. Yeah, 602 00:33:41,240 --> 00:33:43,840 Speaker 2: I don't know what's going to happen with that. Again, 603 00:33:43,880 --> 00:33:48,280 Speaker 2: they just blew past their deadline. I saw that California 604 00:33:48,360 --> 00:33:53,000 Speaker 2: is trying to figure out how to do desalination projects. No, yeah, 605 00:33:53,240 --> 00:33:56,360 Speaker 2: which would help a lot of stuff, but that's I mean, 606 00:33:56,400 --> 00:33:58,440 Speaker 2: they're going to have to build I think forty billion 607 00:33:58,480 --> 00:34:01,720 Speaker 2: dollars worth of infrastructure to do it, which I don't 608 00:34:01,720 --> 00:34:03,640 Speaker 2: think they have that in their pockets right now. 609 00:34:03,840 --> 00:34:09,439 Speaker 1: Didn't we do a desalination episode like fifteen sixteen years ago? 610 00:34:09,960 --> 00:34:11,560 Speaker 2: I don't know if it was that long ago, but 611 00:34:11,600 --> 00:34:14,319 Speaker 2: we definitely did one. It was about desalination saving the 612 00:34:14,320 --> 00:34:17,080 Speaker 2: world basically because of the impending water crisis. 613 00:34:17,239 --> 00:34:19,400 Speaker 1: It feels like a long time ago. 614 00:34:19,520 --> 00:34:22,560 Speaker 2: It does that COVID It really messed time up, didn't it. 615 00:34:23,600 --> 00:34:27,239 Speaker 1: Yeah, also just lots of time passing that too, that 616 00:34:27,280 --> 00:34:28,120 Speaker 1: really messed up time. 617 00:34:29,960 --> 00:34:31,200 Speaker 2: You got anything else from a man? 618 00:34:31,480 --> 00:34:33,239 Speaker 1: I got nothing else. Sytems a little shorter, but I 619 00:34:33,239 --> 00:34:35,400 Speaker 1: hope we cleared it up some for the basin states, 620 00:34:35,440 --> 00:34:37,839 Speaker 1: get tracked together. Everybody, you gotta work together. The Feds 621 00:34:37,880 --> 00:34:39,439 Speaker 1: are gonna step in and slap your wrist. 622 00:34:39,840 --> 00:34:43,800 Speaker 2: There you go. Well, since Chuck talked about Fed slapping wrists, 623 00:34:43,840 --> 00:34:45,640 Speaker 2: of course it's time for a listener mail. 624 00:34:48,719 --> 00:34:51,279 Speaker 1: Yeah, this one goes back. I don't know if we 625 00:34:51,400 --> 00:34:53,960 Speaker 1: read something like this or not. But I know what, 626 00:34:54,080 --> 00:34:56,080 Speaker 1: during the Julia Child episode, we couldn't think of the 627 00:34:56,120 --> 00:34:59,360 Speaker 1: name of the pants, the short pants. A lot of 628 00:34:59,400 --> 00:35:01,720 Speaker 1: people said cigarette pants. You said cool lotts. 629 00:35:01,840 --> 00:35:03,160 Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah. 630 00:35:03,200 --> 00:35:05,000 Speaker 1: The word I think I might have been looking for, 631 00:35:05,800 --> 00:35:09,880 Speaker 1: Vicky points out, was probably caprice. Oh yeah, for clam 632 00:35:09,920 --> 00:35:10,560 Speaker 1: digger pants. 633 00:35:10,840 --> 00:35:12,800 Speaker 2: Sure, I've heard that too. 634 00:35:12,880 --> 00:35:15,680 Speaker 1: That's what Vicky says. And funny story, guys, I heard 635 00:35:15,719 --> 00:35:18,960 Speaker 1: about capriepants on TV. When Mary Tyler Moore was selected 636 00:35:18,960 --> 00:35:20,680 Speaker 1: as Rob's wife and The Dick Van Dyke Show, she 637 00:35:20,719 --> 00:35:23,600 Speaker 1: specifically didn't want to be wearing pearls and a petticoat 638 00:35:23,800 --> 00:35:26,719 Speaker 1: and a dress like Missus Cleaver and Donna Reid, so 639 00:35:27,040 --> 00:35:28,839 Speaker 1: producers finally gave in and said, all right, you can 640 00:35:28,880 --> 00:35:32,719 Speaker 1: wear those capri pants, which he really had to fight for. 641 00:35:32,800 --> 00:35:35,239 Speaker 1: But the pants were considered risque at the time, and 642 00:35:35,280 --> 00:35:37,360 Speaker 1: they said that she could never be filmed from the 643 00:35:37,400 --> 00:35:38,840 Speaker 1: backside wearing those pants. 644 00:35:39,280 --> 00:35:44,080 Speaker 2: Huh. I've long thought, wow, you never see Mary Tyler 645 00:35:44,120 --> 00:35:46,239 Speaker 2: Moore's bottom in the Dick Van Dyke Show. 646 00:35:46,360 --> 00:35:49,640 Speaker 1: Now I know why, And that's from Vicky Reid. 647 00:35:50,400 --> 00:35:53,880 Speaker 2: She I've always thought she dressed so adorably in that. Yeah, 648 00:35:53,920 --> 00:35:56,279 Speaker 2: adorable in that show. What a great show too. 649 00:35:56,520 --> 00:35:59,040 Speaker 1: Mary Tyler Moore is a treasure. She is? 650 00:36:00,560 --> 00:36:01,440 Speaker 2: Who is that? Vicky? 651 00:36:01,960 --> 00:36:02,520 Speaker 1: Vicky read? 652 00:36:02,800 --> 00:36:07,120 Speaker 2: Thanks a lot, Vicky Read. We appreciate you. Capri pants, clamdiggers, 653 00:36:07,400 --> 00:36:11,240 Speaker 2: whatever you call them, they're pants and they're shorter than normal. 654 00:36:12,440 --> 00:36:14,200 Speaker 2: If you want to be like Vicky and get in 655 00:36:14,239 --> 00:36:17,120 Speaker 2: touch with us and help us out. We love being 656 00:36:17,160 --> 00:36:20,560 Speaker 2: helped out. You can send it via email to stuff 657 00:36:20,600 --> 00:36:26,560 Speaker 2: podcast at iHeartRadio dot com. Stuff you Should Know is 658 00:36:26,560 --> 00:36:27,919 Speaker 2: a production of iHeartRadio. 659 00:36:28,440 --> 00:36:31,640 Speaker 1: For more podcasts my heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, 660 00:36:31,800 --> 00:36:34,720 Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.