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Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to Saber production of iHeartRadio. I'm Annires

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Speaker 1: and I'm Lorn vogel Baum. And today we have a

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Speaker 1: classic episode for you about pretzels. Yes, and it goes

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Speaker 1: a bit a bit back. We were younger in those days.

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Speaker 2: Uh yeah, this one is from March of twenty nineteen.

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Speaker 2: You can hear it in the just the clear excitement

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Speaker 2: in our voices and also in this might have been

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Speaker 2: the first time that we ran across one of these

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Speaker 2: Baked Goods episodes where a baked good saved a city

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Speaker 2: during a siege. Yeah, because I'm not impressed by that anymore.

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Speaker 3: You're desensitized.

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Speaker 2: I'm desensitized to the story. Yeah, I'm like, Oh, who

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Speaker 2: hasn't saved a sa during a siege when you're a

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Speaker 2: baked good?

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Speaker 1: Do you have a mascot? A pretzel?

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Speaker 3: Does that should be the next Oh? There you go.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm still I'm still impressed by mascots.

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Speaker 3: Yes, well, I.

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Speaker 1: Think I know the answer to this, but I'm going

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Speaker 1: to ask you anyway, was there any particular reason this

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Speaker 1: was on your mind to bring back horn?

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Speaker 2: Oh? I don't Now, I'm curious to know what you

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Speaker 2: think the answer is, because I'm pretty sure that I

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Speaker 2: was just browsing through our classics and like a baked

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Speaker 2: good was sort of kind of a thing that we

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Speaker 2: hadn't talked about in a second, and so I was like, yeah,

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Speaker 2: put that one in there. Although as I was going

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Speaker 2: through the episode, I was like, oh, man, we should

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Speaker 2: have run this before Easter because it's, as it turns out,

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Speaker 2: extremely easter codd.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, we don't get that right all too often.

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Speaker 3: No, come out.

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Speaker 2: We certainly don't winter holiday topics in the middle of summer. Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Hey, but you know in Australia, right works.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, what did you think? I think I could look

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Speaker 1: this up and easily solve it. But I'm pretty sure

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Speaker 1: National Pretzel Day just happened.

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Speaker 2: No, oh wow, okay, accidentally on time? Love it.

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Speaker 1: Sometimes it happens. Sometimes it happens. I was just getting

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Speaker 1: a lot of in our inbox, a lot of cold

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Speaker 1: call emails from companies that were that were like, oh,

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Speaker 1: National Pretzel Day, that's why Lauren did.

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Speaker 2: Oh there you go. No, I was I was unaware.

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Speaker 1: Maybe somehow you're in tune with the.

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Speaker 2: Pretzel that's probably it, you know, just on right, like

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Speaker 2: like on a on a deeper energetic level and probably

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Speaker 2: just in tune with what's going on with pretzels.

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Speaker 1: Makes sense, it does.

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Speaker 2: Well. While I investigate this newfound facet of myself, we

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Speaker 2: should probably let former Annie and Lauren take it away.

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Speaker 3: Hello, and welcome to Savor.

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Speaker 2: I'm Annie Resa and I'm Lauren Vogelbaum, and today we're

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Speaker 2: talking about pretzels.

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Speaker 1: Which, amazingly is another food that's a funny mascot, the

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Speaker 1: pretzel mascot.

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Speaker 3: I think there's more than one.

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Speaker 2: This one is high quality. I definitely recommend looking this

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Speaker 2: one up.

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Speaker 3: Yes, I do too.

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Speaker 1: One of my favorite things when my mom and I

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Speaker 1: that we would do when I was growing up is

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Speaker 1: we would take a trip to the mall and we

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Speaker 1: would get one of those anti Anne pretzels with the

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Speaker 1: honey glaze.

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Speaker 2: Honey glaze, okay, all right, so good? Oh yeah.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Every time I go to the mall to this day,

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Speaker 3: I'm like, can I get one?

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Speaker 1: No?

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Speaker 3: Probably not, I.

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Speaker 2: Mean you're allowed to.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I definitely want to one day, relive it, relive it.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: And we go to the Imax at the Mall of

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Speaker 1: Georgia and we would buy those Cinna bytes, which are

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Speaker 1: just like warm bite sized cinnamon and sugar pretzels.

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Speaker 2: I get a little like nuggets.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and we would sneak them into the theater.

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Speaker 1: Those are good at times already the craving setting in

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Speaker 1: that's not good. But regular pretzels, I'm not super into them.

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Speaker 1: I turn them down on airplanes. I do like the

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Speaker 1: ones with peanut butter in the center, but that's peanut butter.

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Speaker 2: That's peanut butter related and not pretzel related.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: I prefer a soft pretzel to a hard pretzel. But

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Speaker 2: I love a pretzel. Yeah, I am a sucker for

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Speaker 2: any kind of pretzel, pretzel bread. I get the most

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Speaker 2: excited about pretzel bread. And I don't know, well, I

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Speaker 2: feel like I feel like the amount of excitement that

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Speaker 2: I experience about it, it's not even disproportionate. It's just like,

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Speaker 2: I don't I don't know why it happens.

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Speaker 3: Hmmm, uh huh.

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Speaker 1: I have a similar thing with a local popsicle vendor,

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Speaker 1: King of Pops. Oh yeah, because I don't really like

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Speaker 1: pops I mean, they're fine, sure, but I get so

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Speaker 1: excited when I see them. They just were really good

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Speaker 1: at marketing and making themselves seem like difficult to find.

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Speaker 2: I think so you're like, oh, man, what a treat.

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Speaker 1: But there's literally a king of pops in this building.

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Speaker 1: I could just walk down the stairs hood but no, no,

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Speaker 1: if I see them in the wild, like oh popsicle,

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Speaker 1: I I yeah, I understand that. Me and my ex

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Speaker 1: boyfriend we were at this big comedy show a couple

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Speaker 1: of years ago and we hadn't had dinner and we

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Speaker 1: saw on the menu an eighteen dollars super pretzel and

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Speaker 1: we were very very intrigued, and we decided to order

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Speaker 1: it on a whim, a very ridiculous, silly whim. The

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Speaker 1: cashier was like, no one's ever ordered that before. Let

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Speaker 1: me check with my manager. I don't actually know what

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Speaker 1: it is. And it became a fiasco. There was all

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Speaker 1: hands on deck. Everyone was trying to figure out this

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Speaker 1: super pretzel. People were going back into the back and

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Speaker 1: like whispering.

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Speaker 2: It took like.

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Speaker 1: Thirty minutes, but finally we got this massive pretzel and

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Speaker 1: a pizza box that barely fit out like the order window.

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Speaker 2: It was the size of my door.

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Speaker 1: So at least wow, and it came with two tiny

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Speaker 1: cheese containers to diff it in.

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Speaker 3: It was pretty hilarious.

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Speaker 2: Wow.

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Speaker 1: It's one of the first pictures on my Instagram.

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Speaker 2: So just a real big pretzel.

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Speaker 3: It was just a big a super pretzel. Yeah, will oh,

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Speaker 3: I will as you should. It was a waste, but

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Speaker 3: it was a fun waste.

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Speaker 2: Well there you go.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm not sure how they did it to this day.

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Speaker 1: I wonder if they, like who is maybe somebody went

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Speaker 1: and picked one up.

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Speaker 2: If anyone has any background information on the super pretzel.

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Speaker 1: Very important for us to know, very important. I totally

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Speaker 1: forgot about President George W. Bush almost choking on that pretzel.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, that happened.

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Speaker 1: It came up a lot when I was researching. Huh

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Speaker 1: oh yeah, the pretzel.

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Speaker 3: The pretzel. But all of this brings us to the

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Speaker 3: question pretzel.

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Speaker 1: What is it? Well, pretzel can mean a lot of things.

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Speaker 1: It's a type of baked good that can be salty

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Speaker 1: or savor you're sweet, a soft, or crunchy. The word

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Speaker 1: can refer to the traditional twisty knot shape that these

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Speaker 1: baked goods come in, though pretzels can also come in

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Speaker 1: other shapes, like sticks or nuggets. Other baked goods like

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Speaker 1: sandwich rolls aforementioned, can be made of pretzel style bread.

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Speaker 1: But okay, I guess at the essence of pretzel.

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Speaker 2: You've got a snack made of a yeast raised wheat

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Speaker 2: flour dough that's rolled into a long rope and then

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Speaker 2: wound into a shape that's It's like a wide, rounded

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Speaker 2: heart with the with the ends overlapping at the crux

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Speaker 2: of the heart, and the ends are then twisted around

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Speaker 2: each other and pulled down to touch the lower sides

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Speaker 2: of the heart space. In the United States, the ends

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Speaker 2: are separated after twisting and attached one on each side

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Speaker 2: of the heart, forming a shape with three holes. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: In Europe, the ends are often kept together and attached

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Speaker 2: to the same point at the bottom, forming a shape

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Speaker 2: with only two holes. What I know, blow my mind right.

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Speaker 2: The pretzel may be treated or topped in a number

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Speaker 2: of ways, and is baked until it reaches the desired firmness.

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Speaker 2: The result has a deep brown crust with a pale interior,

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Speaker 2: a slightly tangy flavor, and a texture that's somewhere from

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Speaker 2: chewy soft to like crispy crunchy. Hmm. There are a

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Speaker 2: lot of variations. Philly style pretzels are shaped like an

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Speaker 2: elongated figure eight. I know. Hard baked pretzels tend to

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Speaker 2: be smaller, like bite sized often come in other shapes,

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Speaker 2: sticks and twists. Soft baked ones tend to be bigger.

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Speaker 2: You could use yeast dough or sour dough, plain wheat flour,

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Speaker 2: incorporate other grains, can top them with cinnamon and sugar,

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Speaker 2: powdered mustard, powdered dill, pickle flavoring, Bake them up with

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Speaker 2: cheese on top. You can serve them with all kinds

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Speaker 2: of dipping sauces, though for the savory ones, whole grain

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Speaker 2: mustard is perhaps the most common, and cheese sauce perhaps

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Speaker 2: the most delicious. Agreed science fact. You can stuff them

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Speaker 2: with stuff, as Annie mentioned a minute ago. Yeah, nutrition wise,

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Speaker 2: you know, depends on your type of pretzel. Perhaps Obviously,

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Speaker 2: Hard snack pretzels have some protein and a tiny little

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Speaker 2: bit of fat, but they're mostly carbs, so they'll fill

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Speaker 2: you up like briefly, but won't keep you going for

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Speaker 2: too long. Soft pretzels tend to have a little bit

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Speaker 2: more fat, less protein. I mean, neither is ideal. It's

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Speaker 2: bread or like crackers, so smalls into the category of

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Speaker 2: what I would call like nutritionally math. It's not like

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Speaker 2: a decadent treat, but you probably shouldn't plan your daily

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Speaker 2: diet around them if you can otherwise avoid it.

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Speaker 1: No, Unfortunately, unfortunately, Like I, I was on a film

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Speaker 1: set once and as people probably heard of, like the craft,

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Speaker 1: the snacks that they provide. Sure, and I was pretty

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Speaker 1: good about not indulging in.

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Speaker 2: All of the candies.

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Speaker 1: But the pretzel, the combos with peanut butter, oh yeah,

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Speaker 1: get me every time. And then I saw the calorie

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Speaker 1: information in them, and I like staggered away in shock,

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Speaker 1: Like I knew it would be high. I didn't know

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Speaker 1: it would be that high. Yeah, And I haven't really

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Speaker 1: had one since. Sometimes I let myself have two. We

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Speaker 1: do have a large and there are some here, and

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Speaker 1: the temptation is always there.

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Speaker 2: I had a couple yesterday while I was researching this article, yeah,

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Speaker 2: this podcast episode thing, this.

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Speaker 3: Thing that we're doing right now.

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Speaker 1: If we look at pretzel numbers, pretzels are the most

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Speaker 1: popular in the United States and Germany. Americans consume an

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Speaker 1: average of one point five pounds of pretzels annually, and

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Speaker 1: that comes out to be three hundred and twenty four

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Speaker 1: million pretzels a year in twenty thirteen, which comes out

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Speaker 1: to five hundred and fifty million dollars a year in

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Speaker 1: the US alone. Eighty percent of those come from Pennsylvania.

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Speaker 2: Yes.

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Speaker 1: Also, the average pretzel consumption is much higher in Pennsylvania,

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Speaker 1: about twelve pounds a person.

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Speaker 2: Oh, he said, like one point five pounds for the

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Speaker 2: rest of America, but twelve pounds for Pennsylvania.

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Speaker 1: Twelve pounds listeners from Pennsylvania, I mean, right in? Does

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Speaker 1: that sound correct? I mean that's a lot.

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Speaker 2: I lived in Pennsylvania briefly, and I have to say,

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Speaker 2: like that sounds about right.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, really, Yeah, that's the second time my mind has

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Speaker 1: been blowed. In very early part of this episode, Anti Ann's,

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Speaker 1: that preveyor of soft pretzels usually found in malls or

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Speaker 1: in airports, makes five hundred thousand pretzels a day. In

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Speaker 1: two thousand and seven, Joey Jaw's Chestnut eight twenty one

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Speaker 1: soft pretzels in ten minutes and became the world pretzel

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Speaker 1: eating champion.

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Speaker 2: The record for largest pretzel is continually contested, but right

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Speaker 2: now Guinness has the record holder as coming from a

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Speaker 2: San Salvador bakery in twenty fifteen. It weighed one thousand,

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Speaker 2: seven hundred and twenty eight pounds and measured twenty three

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Speaker 2: feet and three inches long by thirteen feet and three

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Speaker 2: inches wide. For a metric friends, that's seven hundred and

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Speaker 2: eighty three point eighty one kilos and eight point nine

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Speaker 2: three meters by four point oh six meters.

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Speaker 1: Always wonder about these things. Did they just invite the

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Speaker 1: entire town and then everyone.

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Speaker 3: Eats pretzel for I think, like a day.

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Speaker 1: I think that's basically yeah, okay, cool is not going

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Speaker 1: to waste. Pretzels are a popular bar snack because they

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Speaker 1: make customers thirsty so that you will hopefully order another

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Speaker 1: drink and famous Seinfeld line, these.

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Speaker 3: Pretzels are making me thirsty. That was the first episode

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Speaker 3: I ever saw.

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Speaker 1: I remember, oh wow, yeah, because we couldn't get the

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Speaker 1: TV to work, and we were like, you know you

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Speaker 1: tuning no one knows what tuning it and like hitting it,

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Speaker 1: and I just remember, like getting snippets of.

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Speaker 3: These pretzels are making me thirsty.

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Speaker 1: So Seinfeld called the episode, which brings us to how

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Speaker 1: are they made?

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Speaker 2: Oh? Okay, all right? The making of pretzels touches on

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Speaker 2: a lot of the areas that make baking such an

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Speaker 2: interesting intersection of sciences. I really nerded out about this. Okay,

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Speaker 2: all right, First of all, you're making a yeast dough,

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Speaker 2: which means a yep, we're talking about fermentation. YEASTO Baker's

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Speaker 2: yeast is a single celled fungus that basically eats sugars

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Speaker 2: and poop's carbon dioxide, alcohol and a few other compounds

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Speaker 2: that we humans can experience as flavor in pretzels. The

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Speaker 2: carbon dioxide bubbles are going to give you that nice puff,

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Speaker 2: a good airy lift in the dough. Yeah, the alcohol

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Speaker 2: will largely boil off in the oven, but that and

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Speaker 2: those other compounds help flavor the dough. Recipes recommend allowing

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Speaker 2: the yeast to work in the dough for a full

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Speaker 2: twenty four hours to allow all that good flavor stuff

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Speaker 2: to happen before you even shape the pretzels. And at

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Speaker 2: that point you've probably also got some of that ubiquitous

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Speaker 2: lactic acid bacteria working for you too, creating a little

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Speaker 2: bit of extra tang in the dough bacteria.

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Speaker 3: Whoa wharemy?

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Speaker 2: Yeah. After shaping the pretzels, you let them rest again

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Speaker 2: to rise. But then we get to the crust, that

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Speaker 2: delicious crust. Have you ever noticed how pretzels have that

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Speaker 2: huge color contrast that that mahagony brown crust and like

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Speaker 2: basically pure wet interior. Yeah, well, I mean they should, okay,

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Speaker 2: And that's because the crust is traditionally treated with an

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Speaker 2: alkaline solution before the pretzels are baked. That the shaped

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Speaker 2: risen pretzels are dipped in a solution of lye or

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Speaker 2: baking soda dissolved in hot water right before they're baked,

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Speaker 2: and this messes with the surface of the dough in

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Speaker 2: really delicious ways. Okay, We've spoken before on the show

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Speaker 2: about the Mayyard reaction. This is a browning process that's

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Speaker 2: a heat activated chain reaction among amino acids and sugars

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Speaker 2: that creates deeper colors and tastier flavors in anything from

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Speaker 2: the surface of a steak to the surface of a

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Speaker 2: loaf of bread. When you dip a pretzel into an

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Speaker 2: alkaline enough solution, some of the complex proteins in the

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Speaker 2: surface of the dough will break down into their component

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Speaker 2: amino acids, which means that you've got more fuel for

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Speaker 2: the Maiard reaction in this treated pretzel dough than you

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Speaker 2: would in like your average bread dough, which makes the

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Speaker 2: crust of the pretzel darker and more flavorful. I didn't

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Speaker 2: see any art discussing the chew or crisp of the

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Speaker 2: pretzel crust, but I would suppose that, similar to how

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Speaker 2: you parboil bagels to gelatinize the starches in the crust

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Speaker 2: and make the crust chewy, a combination of the heat

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Speaker 2: from the alkaline water dip and maybe even the alkalinity

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Speaker 2: itself will create like a lesser but kind of similar

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Speaker 2: chew in a well made pretzel. That's I'm guessing going

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Speaker 2: out on a science limb here. Yeah, if you're looking

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Speaker 2: to make pretzels at home, by the way, you totally can.

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Speaker 2: Getting the shape right is not as easy as they

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Speaker 2: make it look, but you know, technically, baking it is

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Speaker 2: no harder than any other yeast dough adventure. Just be

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Speaker 2: careful if you choose to go that lie root or

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Speaker 2: even with baking soda, because you're creating a very alkaline

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Speaker 2: solution like that will. There are lots of recipes online

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Speaker 2: with appropriately cautious warnings and procedural notes, because that stuff

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Speaker 2: will burn the heck out of you if you do

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Speaker 2: not respect it.

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Speaker 3: Have you ever made pretzels?

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Speaker 2: I have not.

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Speaker 3: We should all.

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Speaker 2: Wait, there's like something at the back of my brain

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Speaker 2: that's pinging that, Like maybe when I was a tiny child.

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Speaker 3: M h you remember making the shape?

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Speaker 2: Yeah? Or maybe I just did that with I don't know.

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Speaker 1: I feel like that was a Christmas ornament thing that

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Speaker 1: I did, where you like melted peppermints into that shape.

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Speaker 2: Huh.

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Speaker 3: I don't know.

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Speaker 1: Well, maybe one day we'll make pretzels, even though if

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Speaker 1: there's like a warnings around it, probably we shouldn't.

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Speaker 2: We'll get at those goggles.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, okay, Now, I mean.

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Speaker 1: The pretzel is pretty ubiquitous nowadays, but it used to

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Speaker 1: be really fancy and religious. Yeah, and we'll get into

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Speaker 1: that after a quick break forward from our sponsor.

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Speaker 2: And we're back.

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Speaker 3: Thank you sponsor, Yes, thank you.

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Speaker 1: All right, So the first pretzels most likely go back

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Speaker 1: to sixth century Europe, either French, Germany or Italy. And

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Speaker 1: with all of these food origin stories, it's really difficult

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Speaker 1: to bend down the first because people were probably doing

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Speaker 1: whatever the thing is earlier than the earliest recorded date.

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Speaker 1: It kind of depends on how you define like the

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Speaker 1: ancestor of a thing. Sure records that get lost or

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Speaker 1: were never made. Same thing with the pretzel, although actually

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Speaker 1: there is no actual documentation from the from the time

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Speaker 1: to back this up. It's kind of like retroactive. Somebody

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Speaker 1: said it happened later, sure, but anyway, okay, okay, The

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Speaker 1: generally accepted story of the pretzel is as follows. In

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Speaker 1: six hundred and ten CE, an Italian monk was looking

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Speaker 1: for a way to get his students to pay attention,

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Speaker 1: so he rolled out some dough into ropes, twisted and

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Speaker 1: arranged them so that they looked like hands folded over

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Speaker 1: the chest in prayer. Okay, Then he baked them up

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Speaker 1: and named them prettiola, the Latin word for little reward,

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Speaker 1: because he gave them the children who memorized their prayer.

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Speaker 1: Perhaps the original name was procele, which is.

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Speaker 3: The Latin word for little arms.

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Speaker 1: When the pretzel made its way to Germany, it got

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Speaker 1: the name bretzel.

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Speaker 3: Pretzel. I think that's a pretty I can see how

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Speaker 3: that happens.

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Speaker 2: Jump.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yes, Now another piece of this has to do

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Speaker 1: with lint, which was much stricter at this time. No meat,

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Speaker 1: no dairy, no eggs, only one meal a day, and

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Speaker 1: it couldn't be from animals. But pretzels. They were an

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Speaker 1: ideal snack because there's just water, flower and salts. Catholics

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Speaker 1: in particular once considered pretzels as the official food of Lint.

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Speaker 1: In fact, some theorized that pretzels were developed specifically four lents.

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Speaker 1: Oh wow, Pretzels are just about the most symbolically religious

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Speaker 1: food there is. I know, right. The folds are meant

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Speaker 1: to represent holding hands in prayer, the three holes, the

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Speaker 1: Holy Trinity, the Father Son, holy Ghost. They were seen

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Speaker 1: as good luck, as the sign of prosperity, and symbolic

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Speaker 1: of spiritual fulfillment. As such, they were often given to

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Speaker 1: the knee.

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Speaker 3: Okay.

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Speaker 1: Some sources describe the practice of hiding pretzels from children

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Speaker 1: in an early version of the modern day Easter egg hunt.

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Speaker 1: What can you imagine?

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Speaker 2: I can.

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Speaker 1: That's great, it is side note, I was so competitive

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Speaker 1: at Easter egg hunts as a child. My family put

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Speaker 1: a limit on how many golden eggs I could find

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Speaker 1: because we had like the you know, it's a crim

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Speaker 1: de la crim oh okay, and everyone else is allowed

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Speaker 1: a two minute and start.

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Speaker 2: This information does not surprise me at all.

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Speaker 1: Uh my mom still does an Easter egg hunt for

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Speaker 1: me to this day.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's like just me. She is the best.

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Speaker 1: She's out there like cheering me on.

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Speaker 3: And I get I'm so competitive. I get into it.

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Speaker 2: I still even though no one else is playing No No.

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Speaker 1: Every now and then, if someone else is home, they'll

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Speaker 1: indulge me. But sometimes it's just me and we do

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Speaker 1: it at night with Flashlah Anyway. Yeah. One of the

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Speaker 1: first recorded documentations of a pretzel comes from eleven to

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Speaker 1: eleven ce on the crest of a German baker's guild. Okay,

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Speaker 1: and some sources mention something called an escort pretzel.

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Speaker 2: Escort pretzel.

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Speaker 3: I love this.

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Speaker 1: So around the same time, since traders attending the Frankfurt

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Speaker 1: Fair were at risk of being robbed, townspeople rode out

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Speaker 1: to meet them, bearing gifts of wine and pretzels.

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Speaker 3: And that sounds lovely.

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Speaker 1: That does sound I want escort pretzels and we need

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Speaker 1: an escort pretzel.

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Speaker 3: Okay, I bring that back.

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Speaker 1: Yes, a pretzel was depicted in the twelfth century Hortois

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Speaker 1: daili Yarum The Hordest Daily like Jaram was an illustrated encyclopedia,

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Speaker 1: the first put together by a woman Harad of Landsberg,

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Speaker 1: who was a German nun. The imaging question is sort

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Speaker 1: of a biblical dinner party with Queen Esther and King

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Speaker 1: ahaz Uarus, and on their table is a fish, played

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Speaker 1: fish dishes and goblets and a single pretzel and it's

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Speaker 1: very clearly a pretzel.

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Speaker 2: It's like, obviously a pretzel, Like that is what that is?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, huh yeah.

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Speaker 1: A fourteen forty prayer book owned by Catherine of Cleaves

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Speaker 1: contained a picture of Saint Bartholomew with pretzels on all side,

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Speaker 1: like he's surrounded by pretzels. Pretzels were used as decorations

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Speaker 1: for Christmas trees in sixteenth century Austria. Love It and

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Speaker 1: European baker's guilds frequently used the pretzel as a symbol,

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Speaker 1: and the loops were handy for storing and carrying pretzels.

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Speaker 1: Vendors would carry them on sticks and sell them on streets,

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Speaker 1: similar to bagels or donuts. Oh yeah, the past episodes

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Speaker 1: we've talked about that, and modernly you might see the

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Speaker 1: symbol of a lion holding a pretzel shaped shield outside

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Speaker 1: bakeries in Austria. This allegedly goes back to fifteen ten CE,

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Speaker 1: when Austrian bakers and or monks in a monastery depending

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Speaker 1: on what you read. Where doing their pre dawn pretzel

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Speaker 1: prep and heard the sounds of tunneling under Vienna Ottoman

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Speaker 1: Turks during the siege of Vienna, and they rang the

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Speaker 1: horn and bell. They let the authorities know, and the

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Speaker 1: King of Austria rewarded them with.

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Speaker 3: Their own coat of arms. Wow, it's pretty cool.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, h and up until this point, the pretzels we've

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Speaker 1: been talking about are of the soft variety. Hard pretzels

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Speaker 1: came on the scene in the late sixteen hundreds. Again

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Speaker 1: multiple versions of the story, but here's a popular one.

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Speaker 1: When a baker in Pennsylvania fell asleep while baking a

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Speaker 1: batch of pretzels. His boss took a spiteful bite out

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Speaker 1: of one of the pretzels. Is to drive his angry

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Speaker 1: point home, but then he was like, whoa, these are good.

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Speaker 3: We should sell the delicious Yeah, never mind, not mad

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Speaker 3: at you anymore.

439
00:23:49,000 --> 00:23:53,000
Speaker 1: In sixteenth century Germany, pretzels were a traditional good Friday food,

440
00:23:53,760 --> 00:23:56,720
Speaker 1: and apparently on New Year's Day in Germany, children wear

441
00:23:56,760 --> 00:23:59,520
Speaker 1: pretzels around their necks for a luck, a practice that

442
00:23:59,520 --> 00:24:01,360
Speaker 1: got started in the seventeenth century.

443
00:24:01,960 --> 00:24:03,040
Speaker 3: Listeners, let us know.

444
00:24:03,240 --> 00:24:05,720
Speaker 2: I'm picturing more like a necklace with a pretzel on

445
00:24:05,760 --> 00:24:09,040
Speaker 2: it than like a pretzel that is, it's open. Yeah,

446
00:24:09,280 --> 00:24:10,840
Speaker 2: although I like that second thing.

447
00:24:11,160 --> 00:24:14,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, I have made many a pretzel necklace at

448
00:24:14,640 --> 00:24:15,680
Speaker 1: beer festival sharing.

449
00:24:15,800 --> 00:24:17,280
Speaker 3: Just get a string, put all the pretzels on them

450
00:24:17,280 --> 00:24:17,720
Speaker 3: and eat.

451
00:24:17,600 --> 00:24:22,879
Speaker 1: Them throughout the day. That's very handy. Another pretzel tradition

452
00:24:22,960 --> 00:24:26,600
Speaker 1: I sincerely hope is true. From what I read, the

453
00:24:26,640 --> 00:24:30,159
Speaker 1: phrase tying the knot comes from the Swiss wedding tradition

454
00:24:30,200 --> 00:24:32,760
Speaker 1: where newly weeds would make a wish and break the

455
00:24:33,080 --> 00:24:35,880
Speaker 1: lucky pretzel, kind of like how we do with a wishbone.

456
00:24:36,720 --> 00:24:40,400
Speaker 1: This dates back to royal couples in sixteen fourteen incorporating

457
00:24:40,440 --> 00:24:44,480
Speaker 1: the pretzel as a symbol of undying love in their ceremonies.

458
00:24:45,720 --> 00:24:47,960
Speaker 2: I think that the tying the knot thing is like

459
00:24:48,240 --> 00:24:52,040
Speaker 2: old like like not tying ceremonies, like where the couple

460
00:24:52,080 --> 00:24:54,280
Speaker 2: would hold a rope and not night.

461
00:24:54,640 --> 00:24:57,200
Speaker 3: But I like this too, I know, well, I hope

462
00:24:57,200 --> 00:25:01,720
Speaker 3: that they help this both they are true, Yes, it can, yes,

463
00:25:01,880 --> 00:25:02,720
Speaker 3: why not both?

464
00:25:03,640 --> 00:25:08,679
Speaker 1: Another another tradition, Oh, German boys again, please write in

465
00:25:08,720 --> 00:25:11,240
Speaker 1: if this is true. German boys would paid a pretzel

466
00:25:11,280 --> 00:25:14,000
Speaker 1: on the doors of the people they fancied, and in

467
00:25:14,080 --> 00:25:17,320
Speaker 1: Luxembourg there was or is something called Pretzel Day, where

468
00:25:17,359 --> 00:25:20,080
Speaker 1: you would give gave the person you were in love

469
00:25:20,119 --> 00:25:22,960
Speaker 1: with a pretzel or a cake shaped like a pretzel.

470
00:25:24,040 --> 00:25:27,720
Speaker 1: I love it, okay, listeners were giving you a lot

471
00:25:27,760 --> 00:25:33,200
Speaker 1: of homework, har Yees. Historians think pretzels probably made the

472
00:25:33,240 --> 00:25:36,040
Speaker 1: journey across the Atlantic with the Pilgrims and may have

473
00:25:36,119 --> 00:25:39,879
Speaker 1: even been used to trade with Native Americans. In either case,

474
00:25:40,080 --> 00:25:44,040
Speaker 1: German immigrants arriving to Pennsylvania in seventeen ten Foreshore brought

475
00:25:44,040 --> 00:25:46,919
Speaker 1: pretzels with them. The first written mention of them in

476
00:25:46,960 --> 00:25:51,160
Speaker 1: America appeared in eighteen twenty four. One story goes that

477
00:25:51,280 --> 00:25:54,639
Speaker 1: the Dutch introduced the pretzel to America, and in sixteen

478
00:25:54,720 --> 00:25:59,040
Speaker 1: fifty two Yacham Wessel was arrested for using good flour

479
00:25:59,280 --> 00:26:02,480
Speaker 1: in quothes to me pretzels for sale to Native Americans

480
00:26:02,480 --> 00:26:07,160
Speaker 1: when white colonists were using brand flour. The first commercial

481
00:26:07,200 --> 00:26:10,840
Speaker 1: pretzel bakery opened in Lititz, Pennsylvania, in eighteen sixty one,

482
00:26:10,920 --> 00:26:15,359
Speaker 1: operated by baker Julius Sturgis. The story goes Surgis got

483
00:26:15,400 --> 00:26:18,800
Speaker 1: the recipe for his pretzels after he provided a free

484
00:26:18,800 --> 00:26:20,560
Speaker 1: dinner to a man who's struggling to make in his

485
00:26:20,680 --> 00:26:25,080
Speaker 1: meat cool. If true, Surgis served up hard pretzels on purpose,

486
00:26:25,119 --> 00:26:27,200
Speaker 1: there is a story that he is the one who

487
00:26:27,359 --> 00:26:31,840
Speaker 1: came up with them. Their longer shelf life made them

488
00:26:31,960 --> 00:26:34,439
Speaker 1: a popular option. Some historians, yeah, they give him the

489
00:26:34,440 --> 00:26:39,240
Speaker 1: credit for this invention of the hard pretzel, but some

490
00:26:39,280 --> 00:26:43,320
Speaker 1: specify on purpose inventor Oh histories mysteries.

491
00:26:43,480 --> 00:26:47,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, you can still visit that original bakery. By the way,

492
00:26:47,080 --> 00:26:49,239
Speaker 2: They've got a sort of like interactive museum there, and

493
00:26:49,359 --> 00:26:52,320
Speaker 2: the Sturgis family is still in the pretzel making business

494
00:26:52,400 --> 00:26:53,320
Speaker 2: five generations in.

495
00:26:54,119 --> 00:26:54,760
Speaker 3: I want to visit.

496
00:26:56,880 --> 00:27:01,560
Speaker 1: Pretzels were a handmade venture until the nineteenthies. One person

497
00:27:01,640 --> 00:27:04,360
Speaker 1: could turn out about forty one minute, which is really

498
00:27:04,359 --> 00:27:08,280
Speaker 1: impressive to me. The first automated pretzel machine debuted in

499
00:27:08,359 --> 00:27:11,960
Speaker 1: nineteen thirty five from the Reading Pretzel Machinery Company, and

500
00:27:12,040 --> 00:27:13,959
Speaker 1: this baby could turn out two hundred and forty five

501
00:27:14,000 --> 00:27:18,720
Speaker 1: pretzels a minute, or about five times a day.

502
00:27:18,800 --> 00:27:22,640
Speaker 2: In nineteen thirty one, Hammond's Pretzel Bakery opened its doors

503
00:27:22,720 --> 00:27:28,560
Speaker 2: in the nearby to Let its Lancaster, Pennsylvania. They are

504
00:27:28,680 --> 00:27:34,000
Speaker 2: now the oldest continuously family operated handmade Pretzel Bakery in

505
00:27:34,040 --> 00:27:34,840
Speaker 2: the United States.

506
00:27:35,240 --> 00:27:38,880
Speaker 1: Ah, this is around the same time the chocolate covered

507
00:27:38,880 --> 00:27:39,880
Speaker 1: pretzel was introduced.

508
00:27:40,240 --> 00:27:44,240
Speaker 3: Those I love. Apparently chocolate covered potato chips are older.

509
00:27:45,440 --> 00:27:47,800
Speaker 2: If you've never had those, they are worthwhile.

510
00:27:48,119 --> 00:27:49,119
Speaker 3: Yeah, oh yeah ha.

511
00:27:49,680 --> 00:27:52,080
Speaker 1: Pretzel bread came to us sometime during the nineteen eighties,

512
00:27:52,119 --> 00:27:53,280
Speaker 1: probably from Chicago.

513
00:27:53,880 --> 00:27:56,760
Speaker 2: Also in the eighties, one Anne Builer bought a stand

514
00:27:56,800 --> 00:28:00,000
Speaker 2: in a farmer's market in Lancaster, Pennsylvania, which would be

515
00:28:00,119 --> 00:28:01,240
Speaker 2: come the national chain.

516
00:28:01,400 --> 00:28:07,320
Speaker 1: Anti ans yes, and then we get many iterations of pretzels.

517
00:28:07,880 --> 00:28:10,679
Speaker 1: You get pretzel sticks, those flat pretzels.

518
00:28:11,760 --> 00:28:13,359
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, the like pretzel thins.

519
00:28:15,280 --> 00:28:16,880
Speaker 3: That's are good. Those are good.

520
00:28:16,960 --> 00:28:20,680
Speaker 2: Those weird me out. Yeah, yeah, I don't think I

521
00:28:20,680 --> 00:28:22,280
Speaker 2: don't I don't think they're right. I don't think it's

522
00:28:22,320 --> 00:28:26,920
Speaker 2: right to just have a crest. And no, it's not right.

523
00:28:27,119 --> 00:28:32,240
Speaker 3: It's not right. Learning a lot about this.

524
00:28:35,000 --> 00:28:38,840
Speaker 1: Indenture endeavor that we're going on, Man, I really want

525
00:28:38,880 --> 00:28:40,120
Speaker 1: to sell pretzel now I can tell you that.

526
00:28:40,760 --> 00:28:44,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, this was a serious craving episode, and we've got

527
00:28:44,400 --> 00:28:46,840
Speaker 2: a little bit more science for you. But first we've

528
00:28:46,840 --> 00:28:48,920
Speaker 2: got one more quick break for a word from our sponsor.

529
00:28:58,680 --> 00:29:00,320
Speaker 3: And we're back, Thank you, sponsor.

530
00:29:00,080 --> 00:29:05,080
Speaker 2: Yes, thank you. So I wanted to mention that pretzels

531
00:29:05,080 --> 00:29:08,760
Speaker 2: come up a lot when math humans want to explain

532
00:29:08,960 --> 00:29:11,360
Speaker 2: extremely complex theories to lay people.

533
00:29:11,640 --> 00:29:13,600
Speaker 3: Really yeah, okay, all right.

534
00:29:13,920 --> 00:29:17,280
Speaker 2: For example, not theory, all right, not theory is a

535
00:29:18,120 --> 00:29:23,960
Speaker 2: it's spelled knot not like not like the antithesism, right, yeah, yeah,

536
00:29:24,000 --> 00:29:26,920
Speaker 2: I can't tell you about that one. But not theory

537
00:29:26,960 --> 00:29:30,880
Speaker 2: is a branch of mathematics that it examines closed three

538
00:29:30,920 --> 00:29:34,040
Speaker 2: dimensional shapes, like like a ring. Would be the simplest

539
00:29:34,240 --> 00:29:39,560
Speaker 2: mathematical not in this in this concept. Other simple examples

540
00:29:39,800 --> 00:29:44,000
Speaker 2: include an infinity or figure eight and a trefoil and

541
00:29:44,480 --> 00:29:49,120
Speaker 2: a pretzel. The ways in which these knots can be

542
00:29:49,240 --> 00:29:54,320
Speaker 2: manipulated and their distinct physical properties have applications in everything

543
00:29:54,400 --> 00:29:58,840
Speaker 2: from chemistry like molecular knots, to biology like like protein

544
00:29:58,920 --> 00:30:02,880
Speaker 2: knots folded protein. Yeah, to physics because it works as

545
00:30:02,880 --> 00:30:05,800
Speaker 2: a metaphor for the properties and behavior of subatomic particles

546
00:30:05,840 --> 00:30:06,800
Speaker 2: in quantum mechanics.

547
00:30:06,920 --> 00:30:07,560
Speaker 3: That's amazing.

548
00:30:09,600 --> 00:30:12,680
Speaker 2: One example of this, of this quantum mechanics thing. Okay,

549
00:30:13,040 --> 00:30:16,240
Speaker 2: all right, Back in the late nineties early two thousands,

550
00:30:16,280 --> 00:30:19,080
Speaker 2: there were these experiments out of the Thomas Jefferson National

551
00:30:19,080 --> 00:30:23,840
Speaker 2: Accelerator Facility in Virginia that showed that at any given point, Okay,

552
00:30:23,920 --> 00:30:27,560
Speaker 2: you think you think of a proton as being a sphere, right, sure,

553
00:30:28,880 --> 00:30:32,000
Speaker 2: But these experiments showed that at any given point, a

554
00:30:32,000 --> 00:30:35,840
Speaker 2: proton might exist as any number of shapes, and the

555
00:30:35,880 --> 00:30:39,480
Speaker 2: probability of all of those different shapes it might be

556
00:30:39,640 --> 00:30:43,120
Speaker 2: will smudge out into more or less rounded sphere on average.

557
00:30:43,840 --> 00:30:46,680
Speaker 2: But they were saying, like, you might as well call

558
00:30:46,720 --> 00:30:51,640
Speaker 2: a proton's real shape a peanut, or a doughnut or

559
00:30:52,040 --> 00:30:58,480
Speaker 2: a pretzel. So cool. And then in twenty sixteen, when

560
00:30:58,640 --> 00:31:01,400
Speaker 2: the Royal Swedish Academy of Sciences announced the winners of

561
00:31:01,400 --> 00:31:04,880
Speaker 2: the Nobel Prize for Physics, they demonstrated the concept with

562
00:31:04,920 --> 00:31:10,200
Speaker 2: a cinnamon role, a bagel, and a pretzel. To oversimplify

563
00:31:10,360 --> 00:31:14,680
Speaker 2: their simplification, okay, okay. The work that they were honoring

564
00:31:14,720 --> 00:31:19,000
Speaker 2: here was, in their words, theoretical discoveries of topological phase

565
00:31:19,080 --> 00:31:23,600
Speaker 2: transitions and topological phases of matter. I do not understand

566
00:31:23,640 --> 00:31:25,840
Speaker 2: this very well, but I think that this work has

567
00:31:25,880 --> 00:31:28,960
Speaker 2: to do with how we can study and identify the

568
00:31:29,040 --> 00:31:34,000
Speaker 2: state of a quantum system, sort of obliquely by studying

569
00:31:34,000 --> 00:31:38,520
Speaker 2: the energy of the electrons in that system, and by

570
00:31:38,720 --> 00:31:41,959
Speaker 2: bringing out these baked goods, the Academy was making an

571
00:31:42,000 --> 00:31:47,720
Speaker 2: analogy to the ways that you can identify a baked

572
00:31:47,720 --> 00:31:51,800
Speaker 2: good obliquely by studying some of the physical properties of

573
00:31:51,880 --> 00:31:55,760
Speaker 2: that baked good, like how is it noted? How many

574
00:31:55,800 --> 00:31:59,320
Speaker 2: holes does it have? I take it that this is

575
00:31:59,360 --> 00:32:04,920
Speaker 2: super hilary, if you like speak quantum mechanics. And I

576
00:32:05,240 --> 00:32:07,640
Speaker 2: wish I'd got the joke better and could explain it

577
00:32:07,680 --> 00:32:10,520
Speaker 2: to y'all, But I just love that they did it.

578
00:32:10,760 --> 00:32:12,520
Speaker 3: Oh, I do too. It's beautiful.

579
00:32:13,200 --> 00:32:19,400
Speaker 1: Who knew pretzels, cinnamon rolls, It's beautiful.

580
00:32:19,000 --> 00:32:23,840
Speaker 2: So so useful for so many, so many quantum mechanical concepts.

581
00:32:28,440 --> 00:32:31,520
Speaker 1: And that brings us to the end of this classic episode.

582
00:32:31,520 --> 00:32:34,120
Speaker 1: We hope that you enjoyed hearing it for the first

583
00:32:34,120 --> 00:32:36,520
Speaker 1: time the second time who knows how many times, as

584
00:32:36,640 --> 00:32:38,600
Speaker 1: much as we enjoyed bringing it back.

585
00:32:39,280 --> 00:32:40,920
Speaker 3: And update.

586
00:32:41,720 --> 00:32:45,280
Speaker 1: I looked it up and a National Pretzel Day is

587
00:32:45,400 --> 00:32:50,360
Speaker 1: April twenty sixth, and we record this it's April twenty first.

588
00:32:50,640 --> 00:32:54,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, so we're heck and timely as heck it.

589
00:32:54,720 --> 00:32:56,600
Speaker 1: You and the pretzels, you're resonated.

590
00:32:58,280 --> 00:33:01,320
Speaker 2: You knew this is such delightful news.

591
00:33:03,400 --> 00:33:05,320
Speaker 1: You're gonna have to look into this and see how

592
00:33:05,360 --> 00:33:06,800
Speaker 1: deep the connection goes.

593
00:33:07,080 --> 00:33:11,200
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, all right, fun homework, Yes.

594
00:33:11,600 --> 00:33:14,840
Speaker 1: Well, listeners. As always, we would love to hear your

595
00:33:14,880 --> 00:33:18,560
Speaker 1: thoughts about pretzels, any recipes, if you've seen the pretzel mascot,

596
00:33:19,200 --> 00:33:22,440
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, oh yeah, yeah, please let us go.

597
00:33:23,000 --> 00:33:25,680
Speaker 1: You can email us at hello at savorpod dot com.

598
00:33:25,800 --> 00:33:28,560
Speaker 2: We're also on social media. You can find us on

599
00:33:28,640 --> 00:33:31,520
Speaker 2: Instagram and blue Sky at saber pod, and we do

600
00:33:31,560 --> 00:33:34,520
Speaker 2: hope to hear from you. Savor is production of iHeartRadio.

601
00:33:34,720 --> 00:33:37,040
Speaker 2: For more podcasts from my Heart Radio, you can visit

602
00:33:37,080 --> 00:33:40,240
Speaker 2: the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to

603
00:33:40,280 --> 00:33:43,680
Speaker 2: your favorite shows. Thanks us always to our superproducers Dylan

604
00:33:43,720 --> 00:33:46,400
Speaker 2: Fagan and Andrew Howard. Thanks to you for listening, and

605
00:33:46,440 --> 00:33:48,120
Speaker 2: we hope that lots of more good things are coming

606
00:33:48,200 --> 00:33:56,320
Speaker 2: your way