1 00:00:02,040 --> 00:00:04,600 Speaker 1: What's going on. I'm rich damiro This is Rich on 2 00:00:04,760 --> 00:00:08,240 Speaker 1: Tech Quick Hits. Joining me today is Robert de Gruzzi 3 00:00:08,400 --> 00:00:11,480 Speaker 1: is the Shake Alert National Coordinator for the Earthquake Science 4 00:00:11,480 --> 00:00:14,440 Speaker 1: Center at the USGS. Robert, thanks so much for joining 5 00:00:14,440 --> 00:00:14,800 Speaker 1: me today. 6 00:00:15,200 --> 00:00:15,600 Speaker 2: Thank you. 7 00:00:16,480 --> 00:00:18,639 Speaker 1: So tell me what it's been like for your team 8 00:00:18,680 --> 00:00:20,639 Speaker 1: for the past seventy two hours, because there's been a 9 00:00:20,680 --> 00:00:23,440 Speaker 1: lot of seismic activity in the southern California area. 10 00:00:24,079 --> 00:00:26,520 Speaker 2: It's been pretty incredible. We've had this sequence of a 11 00:00:26,560 --> 00:00:31,000 Speaker 2: magnitude six point four and on July fourth, and magnitude 12 00:00:31,040 --> 00:00:34,879 Speaker 2: seven point one last night, plus many thousands of aftershocks. 13 00:00:34,880 --> 00:00:37,360 Speaker 2: So it's been a very interesting time for us. And 14 00:00:37,400 --> 00:00:39,800 Speaker 2: in my particular role, I work with the earthquake Early 15 00:00:39,840 --> 00:00:43,800 Speaker 2: Warning program for USGS, and so that's been another interesting 16 00:00:43,840 --> 00:00:46,160 Speaker 2: piece of the entire operation for us. 17 00:00:46,479 --> 00:00:48,960 Speaker 1: So, the early warning system. We've heard talk about this 18 00:00:49,000 --> 00:00:52,640 Speaker 1: in California for many years. Tell me, so the main 19 00:00:52,680 --> 00:00:55,320 Speaker 1: component that's different this time around is that a lot 20 00:00:55,360 --> 00:00:58,920 Speaker 1: of average people had this shake alert la app so 21 00:00:59,040 --> 00:01:00,000 Speaker 1: is that new this time? 22 00:01:01,320 --> 00:01:04,399 Speaker 2: The shakeload real quick early warning system is being implemented 23 00:01:04,440 --> 00:01:08,680 Speaker 2: in California, Oregon, and Washington, and so the USGS's role 24 00:01:08,680 --> 00:01:10,960 Speaker 2: in this whole process is to actually detect the ground 25 00:01:10,959 --> 00:01:13,399 Speaker 2: motion out in the field, to move that information to 26 00:01:13,440 --> 00:01:18,400 Speaker 2: a processing center and make these shake alerts the information 27 00:01:18,440 --> 00:01:21,839 Speaker 2: about the event available for delivery. And so the piece 28 00:01:21,880 --> 00:01:24,720 Speaker 2: that most people are asking about now is the City 29 00:01:24,720 --> 00:01:29,080 Speaker 2: of Los Angeles has recently released shakeload LA and app 30 00:01:29,319 --> 00:01:34,080 Speaker 2: where they deliver shake alerts to the residents of Los 31 00:01:34,080 --> 00:01:34,920 Speaker 2: Angeles County. 32 00:01:35,640 --> 00:01:38,360 Speaker 1: And so they're tapping into your system basically to deliver 33 00:01:38,400 --> 00:01:38,960 Speaker 1: those alerts. 34 00:01:39,160 --> 00:01:39,600 Speaker 2: That's right. 35 00:01:40,319 --> 00:01:43,440 Speaker 1: So how different are those two systems? Are you know, 36 00:01:43,520 --> 00:01:45,959 Speaker 1: passing along that information to them or I mean because 37 00:01:45,959 --> 00:01:48,960 Speaker 1: this took a while to implement, for yes, the regular volts. 38 00:01:49,280 --> 00:01:51,840 Speaker 2: So the USGS is the source of the shake alerts. 39 00:01:51,960 --> 00:01:55,320 Speaker 2: And what we do is we we we issue them 40 00:01:55,480 --> 00:01:58,480 Speaker 2: and everybody that is connected to us delivers them on 41 00:01:58,520 --> 00:02:02,240 Speaker 2: our behalf. So we we basically produced the information and 42 00:02:02,320 --> 00:02:05,080 Speaker 2: then we handed off to people to deliver and the 43 00:02:05,120 --> 00:02:07,920 Speaker 2: City of Los Angeles the shakewoad LA app is one 44 00:02:07,960 --> 00:02:10,200 Speaker 2: of those ways that we get the message out to people. 45 00:02:10,639 --> 00:02:13,000 Speaker 1: Okay, so there's been some talk about a shake or 46 00:02:13,160 --> 00:02:17,120 Speaker 1: LA app and I've been kind of a vocal you know, 47 00:02:17,520 --> 00:02:20,160 Speaker 1: a vocal I've been talking about it on Twitter a 48 00:02:20,160 --> 00:02:22,600 Speaker 1: lot because I was surprised that I did not get 49 00:02:22,639 --> 00:02:24,760 Speaker 1: an alert for the first earthquake, and then for the 50 00:02:24,800 --> 00:02:27,600 Speaker 1: second one, I didn't get it. What happened in this 51 00:02:27,680 --> 00:02:29,840 Speaker 1: scenario here, So part. 52 00:02:29,680 --> 00:02:32,440 Speaker 2: Of the information that we make available for delivery is 53 00:02:32,480 --> 00:02:35,600 Speaker 2: an estimation of how much the ground is going to shake, 54 00:02:36,320 --> 00:02:39,880 Speaker 2: And it turns out with both earthquakes, the initial information 55 00:02:39,960 --> 00:02:44,080 Speaker 2: that we sent out the estimates gave the shaking level 56 00:02:44,120 --> 00:02:47,440 Speaker 2: in Los Angeles County it was below a certain level. 57 00:02:47,560 --> 00:02:51,560 Speaker 2: It was below a certain threshold where we would not 58 00:02:51,720 --> 00:02:54,360 Speaker 2: have passed or the Shake with LA app would not 59 00:02:54,400 --> 00:02:57,799 Speaker 2: have passed along that information to the residents of LA County. 60 00:02:57,919 --> 00:03:01,760 Speaker 2: So it's more about what the settings are for Shake 61 00:03:01,840 --> 00:03:05,600 Speaker 2: loord LA and when they deliver the message that we produce. 62 00:03:05,880 --> 00:03:08,680 Speaker 2: So we produce the messages. They just didn't deliver it, 63 00:03:08,880 --> 00:03:11,360 Speaker 2: and that's not at the fault of the City of 64 00:03:11,360 --> 00:03:14,919 Speaker 2: Los Angeles. It was an agreed upon threshold to deliver 65 00:03:14,960 --> 00:03:16,120 Speaker 2: those messages. 66 00:03:16,040 --> 00:03:18,400 Speaker 1: Mainly because if you had a lower threshold, you might 67 00:03:18,400 --> 00:03:20,359 Speaker 1: get these messages all time. 68 00:03:20,320 --> 00:03:24,320 Speaker 2: That's right. So there's that delicate balance between sending messages 69 00:03:24,360 --> 00:03:29,079 Speaker 2: and for us, the basic idea is to only deliver 70 00:03:29,200 --> 00:03:33,400 Speaker 2: messages to people who may experience potentially damaging shaking. And 71 00:03:33,440 --> 00:03:35,480 Speaker 2: what we mean by that is stuff starts falling off 72 00:03:35,480 --> 00:03:39,080 Speaker 2: shells or walls, or the shakings where people can't stand. 73 00:03:39,400 --> 00:03:42,800 Speaker 2: That's where we want people to really know. In many cases, 74 00:03:43,200 --> 00:03:46,400 Speaker 2: if you just feel an event, you'll be getting a 75 00:03:46,440 --> 00:03:48,280 Speaker 2: lot of those types of messages. So we want to 76 00:03:48,360 --> 00:03:50,440 Speaker 2: make sure that we're not over alerting people. 77 00:03:51,080 --> 00:03:53,280 Speaker 1: And in the city of LA for this instance, there 78 00:03:53,360 --> 00:03:57,120 Speaker 1: wasn't really damaging shaking. It was more of a feeling 79 00:03:57,160 --> 00:03:59,080 Speaker 1: of shaking, and that's the delineation. 80 00:03:59,560 --> 00:04:02,760 Speaker 2: Yes, in the County of Los Angeles, the initial estimation 81 00:04:02,840 --> 00:04:06,160 Speaker 2: of shaking in Los Angeles County was below that that 82 00:04:06,160 --> 00:04:09,720 Speaker 2: that potentially damaging shaking level. We've been doing some modeling 83 00:04:09,760 --> 00:04:13,400 Speaker 2: on that ever since last night, and it's it's likely 84 00:04:13,440 --> 00:04:16,920 Speaker 2: that there could have been in Los Angeles County. So 85 00:04:17,120 --> 00:04:18,760 Speaker 2: we're looking into this and trying to figure out a 86 00:04:18,760 --> 00:04:20,960 Speaker 2: way to basically strike that happy balance. 87 00:04:21,520 --> 00:04:23,719 Speaker 1: And I saw that you guys did do an update 88 00:04:23,760 --> 00:04:27,000 Speaker 1: for the app overnight and you said on the app, 89 00:04:27,120 --> 00:04:28,719 Speaker 1: or at least on a tweet, that you lowered the 90 00:04:28,760 --> 00:04:31,159 Speaker 1: threshold from a I think it was a four to 91 00:04:31,240 --> 00:04:33,400 Speaker 1: a three or five four. 92 00:04:33,880 --> 00:04:38,160 Speaker 2: Yeah. So what's really important to really mention is that 93 00:04:38,680 --> 00:04:43,680 Speaker 2: the shakela la app is managed and developed by the 94 00:04:43,720 --> 00:04:46,440 Speaker 2: City of Los Angeles, and we're providing them a lot 95 00:04:46,480 --> 00:04:49,040 Speaker 2: of advice. And my understanding of what they did last 96 00:04:49,120 --> 00:04:51,839 Speaker 2: night is that on the shakeload la app there's a 97 00:04:51,880 --> 00:04:55,160 Speaker 2: feature where you can look at recent earthquakes, and what 98 00:04:55,200 --> 00:04:58,640 Speaker 2: they did was is they moved the recent earthquakes that 99 00:04:58,680 --> 00:05:01,040 Speaker 2: you see on the screen from the magnitude four two 100 00:05:01,080 --> 00:05:04,039 Speaker 2: magnitude three, so there would be more events shown on 101 00:05:04,080 --> 00:05:04,680 Speaker 2: those maps. 102 00:05:05,160 --> 00:05:08,159 Speaker 1: Okay, And how much of a heads up should we 103 00:05:08,200 --> 00:05:10,440 Speaker 1: expect from the early warning system? 104 00:05:10,880 --> 00:05:13,880 Speaker 2: So the shakeleariers quick early warning system should be able 105 00:05:13,880 --> 00:05:16,240 Speaker 2: to provide people with seconds to tens of seconds of 106 00:05:16,279 --> 00:05:19,920 Speaker 2: warning before shaking arise at their location. And what we're 107 00:05:19,960 --> 00:05:22,840 Speaker 2: telling people is is that if you feel shaking, don't 108 00:05:22,839 --> 00:05:25,919 Speaker 2: wait for the alert drop government hold on. The opposite 109 00:05:25,960 --> 00:05:30,159 Speaker 2: also is important that if you get the alert, don't 110 00:05:30,200 --> 00:05:32,599 Speaker 2: wait for the shaking drop government hold on. So it's 111 00:05:32,600 --> 00:05:34,880 Speaker 2: either the shaking or the alert that will tell you 112 00:05:34,960 --> 00:05:35,719 Speaker 2: to take that action. 113 00:05:36,279 --> 00:05:38,679 Speaker 1: Are there any limitations of this system at this point? 114 00:05:38,720 --> 00:05:40,279 Speaker 1: Like can it get better? In the future. 115 00:05:40,839 --> 00:05:43,279 Speaker 2: It's absolutely getting better all the time. And I think 116 00:05:43,320 --> 00:05:46,160 Speaker 2: this is why working with the City of LA is 117 00:05:46,200 --> 00:05:51,040 Speaker 2: so critical, because there is the sort of technical infrastructure 118 00:05:51,040 --> 00:05:53,520 Speaker 2: part of it that the USGS is improving all the time. 119 00:05:53,800 --> 00:05:56,680 Speaker 2: But then there's also the delivery side. We're trying as 120 00:05:56,760 --> 00:06:00,640 Speaker 2: much as possible to reduce the times between when we 121 00:06:00,880 --> 00:06:04,160 Speaker 2: make the alert available for delivery and when that message 122 00:06:04,360 --> 00:06:07,000 Speaker 2: is actually you know, ends up in someone's hands in 123 00:06:07,040 --> 00:06:09,200 Speaker 2: they're on their phone or wherever else. 124 00:06:10,440 --> 00:06:13,960 Speaker 1: And what about folks outside of LA County or City 125 00:06:13,960 --> 00:06:16,400 Speaker 1: of Los Angeles, Like will this app work for everyone? 126 00:06:16,680 --> 00:06:19,320 Speaker 1: Or are there other resources that people should be aware of? 127 00:06:19,760 --> 00:06:22,520 Speaker 2: So the the app actually works for all residents of 128 00:06:22,560 --> 00:06:25,240 Speaker 2: Los Angeles County. So even though the City of LA 129 00:06:25,320 --> 00:06:28,680 Speaker 2: is producing the app, everyone in LA County would potentially 130 00:06:28,720 --> 00:06:34,040 Speaker 2: receive a shake alert. And there are other parallel, parallel 131 00:06:34,040 --> 00:06:37,880 Speaker 2: programs that are being put together projects for building apps, 132 00:06:38,240 --> 00:06:41,440 Speaker 2: but those are still in testing mode. It's really the 133 00:06:41,440 --> 00:06:44,159 Speaker 2: City of La app that has taken things to this 134 00:06:44,279 --> 00:06:46,839 Speaker 2: place where they're actually sending out alerts to people in 135 00:06:47,120 --> 00:06:47,760 Speaker 2: LA County. 136 00:06:48,400 --> 00:06:51,080 Speaker 1: Are there any other resources you recommend in general, like 137 00:06:51,120 --> 00:06:53,640 Speaker 1: do we follow a certain Twitter account? I know, there's 138 00:06:53,640 --> 00:06:57,320 Speaker 1: a bunch of earthquake apps on you know, the app stores, 139 00:06:57,360 --> 00:06:58,400 Speaker 1: and are those any good? 140 00:06:59,200 --> 00:07:02,080 Speaker 2: So most of the apps that you'll see online are 141 00:07:02,560 --> 00:07:05,120 Speaker 2: the apps that subscribe to the same information from the 142 00:07:05,200 --> 00:07:09,840 Speaker 2: USGS about events that have already happened. With distinguishes Shake 143 00:07:09,880 --> 00:07:15,080 Speaker 2: Alert from all the other types of programs that are 144 00:07:15,080 --> 00:07:18,560 Speaker 2: out there is that we are providing some time potentially 145 00:07:18,640 --> 00:07:21,840 Speaker 2: sometime before shaking rise at your location. So there really 146 00:07:21,880 --> 00:07:24,600 Speaker 2: isn't anything other than shake La that's out there that's 147 00:07:24,680 --> 00:07:29,080 Speaker 2: operating in this capacity in La County. Now, there are 148 00:07:29,160 --> 00:07:32,080 Speaker 2: a few other apps that are are being developed. There's 149 00:07:32,120 --> 00:07:34,720 Speaker 2: one called quick Alert, which is being developed by a 150 00:07:34,760 --> 00:07:37,440 Speaker 2: company called Early Warning Labs, which is based in Santa Monica, 151 00:07:37,560 --> 00:07:40,800 Speaker 2: but that's also in testing mode. That's really pretty much it. 152 00:07:41,720 --> 00:07:45,280 Speaker 2: If people want to keep updated with the Shake Alert 153 00:07:45,320 --> 00:07:48,240 Speaker 2: earth Quick Early Warning system, we recommend they follow our 154 00:07:48,280 --> 00:07:53,720 Speaker 2: Twitter feed at and the addresses at USGS underscore shake Alert. 155 00:07:54,600 --> 00:07:57,640 Speaker 1: Anything else that folks should know about these, I mean, 156 00:07:57,680 --> 00:08:00,160 Speaker 1: because it's definitely an interesting time in southern California, know 157 00:08:00,160 --> 00:08:02,480 Speaker 1: where you just I mean, rarely do you feel the 158 00:08:02,520 --> 00:08:05,560 Speaker 1: ground shaking two times in two days and three days? 159 00:08:05,600 --> 00:08:08,480 Speaker 2: You know, absolutely, And you know this, this is the 160 00:08:08,520 --> 00:08:11,640 Speaker 2: largest shaking that we felt in this region in about 161 00:08:11,640 --> 00:08:14,720 Speaker 2: twenty years, and so we're learning a lot from this earthquakes. 162 00:08:14,760 --> 00:08:18,240 Speaker 2: So there's a lot to learn about earthquakes from these events. 163 00:08:18,600 --> 00:08:21,040 Speaker 2: But what's also critical too, is that this is the 164 00:08:21,080 --> 00:08:23,520 Speaker 2: way that we're going to learn how to improve the 165 00:08:23,560 --> 00:08:26,200 Speaker 2: earthquake early warning system. I mean, it's one thing to 166 00:08:26,240 --> 00:08:29,120 Speaker 2: do stimulated earthquakes, it's one thing to do modeling, but 167 00:08:29,240 --> 00:08:31,960 Speaker 2: to actually have the real earthquakes, have the real events 168 00:08:32,400 --> 00:08:34,720 Speaker 2: and see what they do, it'll it'll give us that 169 00:08:34,760 --> 00:08:36,920 Speaker 2: insight we need to make an even better system so 170 00:08:38,120 --> 00:08:43,040 Speaker 2: people should not be alarmed the fact that things happen 171 00:08:43,080 --> 00:08:44,960 Speaker 2: the way they did this time. This is actually a 172 00:08:44,960 --> 00:08:48,079 Speaker 2: stepping stone to a much better shake with system, and. 173 00:08:48,160 --> 00:08:50,000 Speaker 1: We feel like the APP is going to be in 174 00:08:50,040 --> 00:08:52,800 Speaker 1: a better position at this point for another alert in 175 00:08:52,800 --> 00:08:53,280 Speaker 1: the future. 176 00:08:53,760 --> 00:08:59,160 Speaker 2: Yes, we're actually having discussions with folks at the City 177 00:08:59,160 --> 00:09:02,280 Speaker 2: of Los Angeles this week to make further changes. 178 00:09:02,880 --> 00:09:07,000 Speaker 1: Okay, Great Roberts Grout from Shake Alert, the Shake Alert 179 00:09:07,040 --> 00:09:10,120 Speaker 1: National coordinator for the Earthquakes Time Center at USGS. Thanks 180 00:09:10,160 --> 00:09:11,439 Speaker 1: so much for joining me today. I know you have 181 00:09:11,480 --> 00:09:15,200 Speaker 1: a busy weekend. Here it's a Saturday, and I know 182 00:09:15,240 --> 00:09:19,080 Speaker 1: it's a holiday weekend, so very interesting timing for these earthquakes. 183 00:09:19,080 --> 00:09:21,680 Speaker 1: But I guess they're not on anyone's particular schedule. Huh. 184 00:09:21,800 --> 00:09:24,000 Speaker 2: That's right, yep, that we're here whenever they happen. 185 00:09:25,080 --> 00:09:27,360 Speaker 1: All right, Thanks so much for listening to the show. 186 00:09:27,440 --> 00:09:30,000 Speaker 1: If you found this podcast useful, be sure to subscribe. 187 00:09:30,040 --> 00:09:32,880 Speaker 1: Just search Rich on Tech in your favorite podcast app. 188 00:09:33,160 --> 00:09:35,400 Speaker 1: Immrich Chmiro. I'll talk to you real soon.