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Speaker 1: With Stu Gotts and Hawkman. The response really is heartwarming

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Speaker 1: to with Stu Gotts and Hawkman. I get all these

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Speaker 1: dms Stu gots from people who, I mean, they're really reliving. Yes,

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Speaker 1: I mean for some people a part of their childhood,

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Speaker 1: which is wild to me.

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Speaker 2: Yes, why is it wild to you? Like we knew

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Speaker 2: we were doing something in the moment. We knew we

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Speaker 2: were doing something kind of groundbreaking that was good. We

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Speaker 2: knew it was entertaining once you got there.

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Speaker 1: I'll tell you. What's wild to me is realizing something

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Speaker 1: that seems still relatively recent to me was part of

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Speaker 1: people's childhood.

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Speaker 3: It's crazy.

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Speaker 1: And we were adults already. We weren't in our fifties,

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Speaker 1: which I am. Now, are you in your fifties? Yes

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Speaker 1: I am, Yes, I'm fifty six. I have people coming

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Speaker 1: to me saying, hey, man, when my dad would pick

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Speaker 1: me up from school in middle school, I listen to

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Speaker 1: you guys every afternoon, And I was like, that boggles

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Speaker 1: my mind because twenty plus years has flown by like

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Speaker 1: flown by y.

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Speaker 3: For a lot.

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Speaker 2: I started having success in our thirty so I guess

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Speaker 2: it's more understanding.

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Speaker 1: Forrec it feels it was. In fact, I'm going to

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Speaker 1: read so I wanted to share with everybody this article

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Speaker 1: from the early days of the show. And you're quoted

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Speaker 1: in here, and you're thirty three years old, you're running

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Speaker 1: the station. You're thirty three years old, which, yes, an

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Speaker 1: old thirty three though let's be honest, we felt like

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Speaker 1: we were fully functioning adults. I look back on it

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Speaker 1: now and I'm like, thirty three, we were kids. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: But I've gotten all these direct messages on Instagram and

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Speaker 1: you can DM me. And I have a lot of

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Speaker 1: requests to get to as well, and we will get

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Speaker 1: to those in subsequent episodes, but you can always DM

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Speaker 1: me on Instagram. It's Radio Mark Hawkman, like I even

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Speaker 1: got one. This is funny to me. The other day

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Speaker 1: it says, Hey, Hawkman, I need to know the origin

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Speaker 1: of this. Every time I hear C and C Music Factory,

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Speaker 1: gonna make you sweat during the outro, I have to

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Speaker 1: belt out talk to my ass. I think that was

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Speaker 1: a Stephen Sigall song. I would love to revisit the

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Speaker 1: segment where that mashup happened. I remember the Steven Segall

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Speaker 1: song talk to my Ass. I remember being enamored with

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Speaker 1: Steven Sagall for a while. I don't remember a mash

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Speaker 1: up between C and C Music Factory and talk to

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Speaker 1: my ass.

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Speaker 2: I don't remember it either, but I do believe we

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Speaker 2: used to to finish the show with something like that.

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Speaker 3: Did we know there was.

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Speaker 1: A montage that finished the show? I just don't. I

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Speaker 1: don't recall. But there's a lot of things that people

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Speaker 1: do end up requesting that I'm like, man, I'll look

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Speaker 1: into it, but I'm not necessarily certain where it comes from.

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Speaker 2: I don't think people realize hawk when you're doing the

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Speaker 2: type of show that we were doing. So many of

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Speaker 2: those ideas were not plant like, they were just organic

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Speaker 2: ideas that came. Like we went in with one plan

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Speaker 2: and someone would say something and our minds would go elsewhere,

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Speaker 2: and then all of a sudden we had the makings

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Speaker 2: of some sort of idea.

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Speaker 3: We didn't plan a lot of these, you know.

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Speaker 1: And I'm getting a lot of these on DMS. Hey,

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Speaker 1: I'm up in Michigan. I never listened to the show

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Speaker 1: when you were on it talking of me, but listening

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Speaker 1: back with you and Stu Gott's it reminds me of

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Speaker 1: the show that I fell in love with twelve years ago.

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Speaker 1: There's so much more to the story of how it

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Speaker 1: happened that I still don't know. So keep it coming,

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Speaker 1: Appreciate all you do. I get a lot of dms

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Speaker 1: from people who are saying they don't recall me being

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Speaker 1: part of the show because they only got exposed to

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Speaker 1: the show when it was on ESPN. But they found

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Speaker 1: this pod and they're going, Wow, I'm hearing stuff like

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Speaker 1: I'm seeing how the show was formulated, and they're like,

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Speaker 1: so for a lot of people listening to the pod,

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Speaker 1: which is really cool, some of the stuff we're playing

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Speaker 1: is the first time they've ever heard it. They're not

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Speaker 1: reliving it with us, it's the first time they've ever

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Speaker 1: heard it, which is really cool.

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Speaker 3: But anyway, that does that make you feel good?

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Speaker 2: Like post ESPN listeners showering you would love a second

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Speaker 2: because Hawk did light down the blueprint of what you're

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Speaker 2: hearing even now today.

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Speaker 1: Although I do get plenty of dms saying, hey, stop

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Speaker 1: riding off Dan's coattails. Do your own thing, And then

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Speaker 1: I'm like, do my I do my own thing. I

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Speaker 1: do four for four hours of radio and the stuff

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Speaker 1: we're playing on the podcast, it's my thing.

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Speaker 3: I was there, stop riding.

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Speaker 1: If you sent me that DM, fuck you, I'm sorry

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Speaker 1: I sent it. And speaking of fuck you, if you

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Speaker 1: don't go to Deck eighty four and Burton Max's and

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Speaker 1: Delray Beach, fuck you because there are sponsors.

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Speaker 3: Is that how we're selling ads now? Well?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a different, different time, different world. I took

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Speaker 1: my nephews and dumb from Chicago. I took him to

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Speaker 1: dec eighty four, him and a friend of his. I

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Speaker 1: took him to dec eighty four on Atlantic last night

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Speaker 1: because it was a beautiful night. We sat out on

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Speaker 1: the water and yeah, thank you Buddha at Decade and

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Speaker 1: Burton Max's both restaurants in Delray Beach. But I took

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Speaker 1: them to dec eighty four and such a great scene there,

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Speaker 1: so everyone should check it out. I always say, if

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Speaker 1: you go to Burton Max's on Atlantic, well not on Atlantic,

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Speaker 1: but West Delray, a little bit north.

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Speaker 3: Just off Atlantic Hockey.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, if you go to Burton Max's, ask for Buddha.

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Speaker 1: Tell him you want him to buy you an aperol sprits.

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Speaker 1: He will. He may look at you quizzically, but he'll

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Speaker 1: buy you an aperol sprits. Just tell him you heard

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Speaker 1: about him on Hawkins through Guts.

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Speaker 3: So you ain'ty four last night? Huh? I mean you

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Speaker 3: have a paid for a meal in forever?

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Speaker 1: That is true. I rolled through. Man. We used to

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Speaker 1: have quarter deck certificates. Do you remember that we used

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Speaker 1: to have quarter deck certificates coming out of the ass. Yes,

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Speaker 1: the great Frank Zaffrey. Frank Zaffrey loved Frank Zaffrey, those

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Speaker 1: fifty fifty certificates. Oh my god, six tables. But anyway,

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Speaker 1: I digress.

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Speaker 2: The six Tables is right up by our houses rightly,

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Speaker 2: know what I thought?

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Speaker 3: It was a fake place. I have to be honest.

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Speaker 1: All our life is a circle. It's all coming back.

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Speaker 1: So and by the way, I'm meeting Stu Gott's like

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Speaker 1: tomorrow or the next day to record cameos because we

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Speaker 1: have a couple of cameos in the whole stir He's

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Speaker 1: so mad now.

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Speaker 2: I sent him a tex last night, Taylor, and then

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Speaker 2: he responded, yeah, sounds good. I have a few cameos.

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Speaker 2: I'll meet you at the Starbucks. And I'm like, I

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Speaker 2: regret ever texting you in the first place.

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Speaker 1: That was just kind of swirling like a buzzard waiting

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Speaker 1: for a text from him to let him know we

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Speaker 1: had to do cameos.

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Speaker 3: It's a while.

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Speaker 1: If you want to get a cameo in go to

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Speaker 1: Cameo Seirch Hawkman and you can order a cameo that

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Speaker 1: one of the ones we're doing it. The guys like

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Speaker 1: I lost.

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Speaker 2: A bet, that's the cameo that so we want to bet,

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Speaker 2: so we have to pay for his friend's cameo from

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Speaker 2: us as the loser.

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Speaker 1: The loser has to get a Hawkman Stugott's cameo.

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Speaker 2: I lost a bet. I have to do these cameos

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Speaker 2: with Hockey. They'll get a cent for.

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Speaker 1: Hey, I'll take you to dec eighty four. We'll have

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Speaker 1: the time of our lives. You can commiserate. It's on

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Speaker 1: me and very nice. But anyway, so a lot of

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Speaker 1: people they're fascinated with the origins of the show, and

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Speaker 1: then there are a bunch of people who remember listening

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Speaker 1: and they're very fascinated as to how it all started.

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Speaker 1: And I wanted to share this with everyone. This was

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Speaker 1: one of my original things that I had earmarked at

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Speaker 1: the beginning of this podcast, and I hadn't gotten to

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Speaker 1: it yet. This is an article from the Sun Sentinel

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Speaker 1: July thirty first, two thousand and five. Wow. So the

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Speaker 1: station started September one, two thousand and four, right, So

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Speaker 1: this is essentially a year after seven ninety. The Ticket

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Speaker 1: has been on the air and competing with WQAM, which

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Speaker 1: never had had a competitor last probably as long as

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Speaker 1: seven ninety had at this point, and seven ninety was

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Speaker 1: thriving right now.

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Speaker 2: Yes, And people need to realize back in that time,

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Speaker 2: at that time, having a newspaper, a major market newspaper

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Speaker 2: right about your.

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Speaker 3: Radio station was a big deal back then.

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Speaker 2: I know newspapers have kind of gone in the other

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Speaker 2: direction since this date, but back then, Hawk, if Barry Jackson,

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Speaker 2: if the Herald, if the Sentinel, if someone wrote about

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Speaker 2: your show, Dick, it.

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Speaker 3: Was a big deal.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, but it was a big What was Sarney's first name, Sarney?

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Speaker 3: Jim Sarney, Jim Sarney and.

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Speaker 1: Tom Jicca media writers, right, and Barry and then Barry

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Speaker 1: Jackson I think took over their beat when they were gone.

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Speaker 1: But this is for people who loved the history of

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Speaker 1: seven ninety the Ticket being this upstart station against five

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Speaker 1: sixty WQAM at that time. Here's part of what it says,

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Speaker 1: ask the two largest sports stations in South Florida what

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Speaker 1: they think of each other, and just like on the air,

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Speaker 1: they don't hold back. Veteran five sixty WQAM dismisses its

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Speaker 1: newest challenger seven ninety the ticket quote, we consider ourselves

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Speaker 1: more authoritative and experienced, and them as silly and amateurish,

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Speaker 1: says Greg Reid, wqam's vice president and general manager. And

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Speaker 1: you used to work for Greg Reid, right, I did.

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Speaker 1: Used to work for Greg Reid, and I asked him

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Speaker 1: for a raise.

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Speaker 3: He said no. When I left and started seven ninety,

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Speaker 3: so he said in the article.

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Speaker 1: Next, he saved Greg Reid his harshest critique for Dan

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Speaker 1: Levittard's afternoon show on seven ninety quote. Our guys at

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Speaker 1: the station call it sissy boy radio. It's a bunch

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Speaker 1: of girlish type topics. It's not really serious sports talk. Now,

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Speaker 1: that was what we got all the time from them,

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Speaker 1: right from the old school listeners. Was like because Dan

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Speaker 1: would talk about players emotions, right, yes, AND's emotions, and

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Speaker 1: then also we would talk about stuff that wasn't sports.

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Speaker 1: But I wanted to play one thing. This is from

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Speaker 1: the first show, and I just wanted to say to

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Speaker 1: Greg Reed, what is this twenty one years later? How

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Speaker 1: dare you suggest that we weren't talking serious sports? This

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Speaker 1: is literally the first show with Stugatts and Dan. Tell

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Speaker 1: me this isn't more sports than you could ever handle

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Speaker 1: in a one minute period.

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Speaker 3: Eight eight seven nine.

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Speaker 4: Zero ESPN Again eighty eight seven.

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Speaker 3: Nine zero ESPN.

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Speaker 5: Dan, let's actually talk sports here for just a minute.

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Speaker 5: We'll get back at to the post just one second.

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Speaker 5: Eisenburg's got an update coming up. Morlands Mets tonight. Glevin

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Speaker 5: and Valdez on the Mount Marylands hot one five straight,

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Speaker 5: Laduka motive making a difference on this team, and I

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Speaker 5: know you love that trade.

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Speaker 1: Dan.

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Speaker 3: How's Brad Penny doing well?

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Speaker 4: Let me ask you a question here, Oh well that

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Speaker 4: we're playing the result there on the injury, because you

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Speaker 4: know Penny was gonna get where were you five days ago?

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Speaker 4: I loved thee were you five days ago?

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Speaker 1: When this team was floundering.

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Speaker 4: Now, when this team was doing the same thing, I'm

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Speaker 4: telling you that there were guys in that clubhouse days

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Speaker 4: because I was in that clubhouse.

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Speaker 3: Saying we're done.

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Speaker 4: Guys will play for that. Baseball teams don't know what

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Speaker 4: to make of this baseball team. I have no idea

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Speaker 4: what to make it. But I was dead wrong about

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Speaker 4: them more of the last year because I thought that

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Speaker 4: when they got Pudge Rodriguez, I wrote that it was

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Speaker 4: like putting breasts on an Of course I don't remember

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Speaker 4: they and they won the World Series. But I can't

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Speaker 4: figure this tame out because I would have thought that

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Speaker 4: there was just simply no chance that this team. I'm

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Speaker 4: talking about three days ago after they lost that game

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Speaker 4: of the Giants in THATX trainning.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I would have.

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Speaker 4: Said at that point, that's a crushing defeat. They've got

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Speaker 4: too many teams ahead of them. They've got no chance,

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Speaker 4: and I've got to stop. I'm gonna learn to stop not.

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Speaker 3: Believing in this team.

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Speaker 1: I mean, that is sports. I mean, I don't know

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Speaker 1: what Greg Reid's talking about there, but that's sports. And

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Speaker 1: you're in heaven too, because I mean, you're having a

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Speaker 1: Brad Penny conversation that you apparently wanted to head with

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Speaker 1: him for a long time. Like it's funny to me

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Speaker 1: that that that that that conversation was actually actually happening.

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Speaker 1: The first show was September one, two thousand and four,

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Speaker 1: which means football season's going on, the wolfhen season is

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Speaker 1: going on, and you guys are talking about Brad Penny

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Speaker 1: in the floor to Marlins.

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Speaker 2: Yes, now, dolphin season is going on. The cane season

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Speaker 2: is about to get underway. And perhaps that's why Greg

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Speaker 2: Reid was calling it, what was it, sissy boy radio,

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Speaker 2: boy radio.

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Speaker 3: We were talking baseball when we should have been talking football.

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Speaker 1: I mean so, Dan responds in this article in the

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Speaker 1: Sun Sentinel when told about sissy Boy Radio, it says,

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Speaker 1: Levatar chuckled. It's nice to see he's listening. I would say,

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Speaker 1: sissy boy radio is preferable to old white nursing home,

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Speaker 1: century village fossilized radio. Now, this is, by the way,

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Speaker 1: the radio war that was heating up. I was program director.

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Speaker 1: I wasn't program director at this time. I was on

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Speaker 1: the show and I was going to take over as

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Speaker 1: program director. And when I did, we really went at QAM.

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Speaker 1: All the imaging on the radio station was really just

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Speaker 1: to paint them as old fossilized radio. And by the way,

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Speaker 1: it wasn't an unfair narrative. It was the truth. I mean,

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Speaker 1: he was They were taking caller after caller. It was

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Speaker 1: angry Hank Goldberg. It was Jim Mandage who was talking

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Speaker 1: dolphins like no other. But we had young guys Boog

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Speaker 1: and you and Dan and me and Greig Minervini like

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Speaker 1: these were young guys.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yep. And joe Ren Joe R was young at

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Speaker 3: the time.

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Speaker 2: What I find interesting about that is WQAM a heritage

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Speaker 2: radio station which had I don't know a quarter century,

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Speaker 2: probably more of a head start over seven ninety a

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Speaker 2: ticket inside of a year. You had Greg read, which

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Speaker 2: means hawk you know this because you know the industry

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Speaker 2: we had. We were making an impact because normally the

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Speaker 2: instructions from the top on down is don't ever talk

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Speaker 2: about that, just focus on what it is that we do.

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Speaker 3: And the fact that he felt the need to give that.

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Speaker 2: Newspaper something, to give them a quote, means that we

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Speaker 2: were getting to them.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, we're getting I spent all my days at WQA.

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Speaker 2: I'm thinking to myself, there has to be a younger,

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Speaker 2: better alternative than what it is I'm listening to on

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Speaker 2: a daily basis.

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Speaker 1: Ere Their thought was as any like you say, heritage station,

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Speaker 1: that's the king. Ignore the competitor because they're going to

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Speaker 1: be gone before we blink our eyes. And we're not

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Speaker 1: going to lose any of our advertisers. We're not going

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Speaker 1: to lose any of our ratings. And it it they did.

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Speaker 1: Like they lost ratings, they lost revenue, and they had

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Speaker 1: to acknowledge that seven ninety the ticket was legit, that

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Speaker 1: it was here.

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Speaker 6: Marlin's stayed hot. They got to Glavin early that night,

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Speaker 6: five to four win for the Fish.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and we discussed it opening segment next day because

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Speaker 2: I listen, I was driving the show, so I could

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Speaker 2: control some of the topics. Only thank you for that

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Speaker 2: tailor only to an extent. But what Dan wanted to

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Speaker 2: get away from sports, we got away from sports.

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Speaker 1: But that mean listen, so we've got to ignore the Dolphins.

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Speaker 1: If the Marlins have a six game winning streak going

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Speaker 1: in September, I mean that radio one on one.

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Speaker 3: What year did we start? By the way, what year

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Speaker 3: was this?

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Speaker 1: Three?

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Speaker 3: Four?

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Speaker 1: So the Marlins win the series that year. Now the

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Speaker 1: year before you know three they won the World Series.

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Speaker 1: This is the year Fouria we were talking about him.

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Speaker 1: Terrible job by me and Dad. So it says here

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Speaker 1: in the Sunsetinel, Welcome to the sports talk radio Wars

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Speaker 1: in South Florida where seven ninety. The Ticket has launched

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Speaker 1: its first significant challenge to WQAM, the station that has

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Speaker 1: dominated the sports talk landscape for more than a decade.

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Speaker 1: The battle means South Florida sports talk fans have choices

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Speaker 1: Hank Goldberg on five point sixty or Joe Rose on

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Speaker 1: seven ninety, Howard David or John boog Shambi, Jim Manditch

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Speaker 1: or Levittard Old Guard versus New. The Upstart seven ninety

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Speaker 1: launched with much fanfare on September first, with ESPN programming

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Speaker 1: and the promise of more electric and eclectic talk meaning

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Speaker 1: more than Dolphins chatter, and a challenge to the Old Guard.

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Speaker 1: WQAM management called the effort feudal and compared it to

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Speaker 1: other failed attempts to challenge its supremacy. Eleven months since launching,

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Speaker 1: because this is when that articles written eleven months later,

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Speaker 1: seven ninety is making inroads. It dropped ESPN programming, attracted

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Speaker 1: some of wqam's former fixture hosts, including Joe Rosenbouchambi, and

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Speaker 1: drew the Dolphins, south Florida's most popular franchise, away from WQAM,

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Speaker 1: its flagship since nineteen ninety seven. Still a long way

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Speaker 1: from challenging WQAM and the ratings. Seven ninety has attracted

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Speaker 1: enough listeners to appear in Arbitron ratings books, but where

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Speaker 1: WQAM continues to rank in the top ten overall, often

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Speaker 1: in the top five for its target audience men twenty

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Speaker 1: five to fifty four listening between six am and midnight,

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Speaker 1: seven ninety has not yet cracked the top twenty. Before

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Speaker 1: seven ninety launched, wqam's rankings fluctuated, but were consistently in

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Speaker 1: the top ten, mainly because of the immense popularity of

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Speaker 1: non sports host Neil Rodgers. For the first time this spring,

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Speaker 1: Joe Rose on seven ninety the ticket slightly overtook Hank

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Speaker 1: Goldberg on QAM. Hank was doing mornings at that time.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so it's credit to us because were miserable. I know,

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Speaker 2: I mean, we had already made an impact I don't

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Speaker 2: care what it says about the ratings there. The fact

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Speaker 2: that they took Hank out of afternoon drive put him

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Speaker 2: into morning drive because we took Joe Rose, who was

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Speaker 2: doing mornings at w QAM, but we were going up

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Speaker 2: against Hank and that was an unfair fight for Hank,

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Speaker 2: and so they moved Hank to the morning and tried

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Speaker 2: to get younger.

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Speaker 1: I got you. So Hank is floundering in the afternoons

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Speaker 1: because he's up against you and Dan and the Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and we're just exposing him. And Dan had a bend

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Speaker 1: for Hank, like he wanted him out.

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Speaker 2: More rightfully so, because Hank spent his last couple of

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Speaker 2: years just doing the show on Dan.

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Speaker 1: Right, So they kind of saved Hank. They moved him

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Speaker 1: in mourning. But man, Hank Goldberg in the mornings, God

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Speaker 1: rest his soul. I know you loved Hank.

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Speaker 3: The hammer.

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Speaker 1: Hank Goldberg in the morning sounds like an awful listen.

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Speaker 2: Yes, yes, well, I mean was it towards the end?

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Speaker 2: Was it much better in the afternoons?

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Speaker 5: No?

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Speaker 3: No, but we're like weep.

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Speaker 1: I feel like k Tankeris can play a little bit

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Speaker 1: better in the afternoon than it does in the morning.

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Speaker 3: Oh, Hank was a legend and a monster in the afternoons.

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Speaker 2: I knew when they moved Hank to mornings that wasn't

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Speaker 2: working for anyone. Like it's just like he wasn't going

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Speaker 2: to be in a good mood. The ratings weren't going

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Speaker 2: to be great in Hack. You know you're a programmer.

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Speaker 2: I don't think listener love Hank. He is a legend

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Speaker 2: in sports radio and legend of the game, but people.

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Speaker 3: Don't want to hear that in the mornings.

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Speaker 1: Just I guess they had QAM at Howard Searn says.

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Speaker 1: In the fall, when QAM had Howard Stern's show, it

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Speaker 1: ranked second among men twenty five fifty four between six

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Speaker 1: am and midnight with a six to six share. The

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Speaker 1: new waxi US was ranked twenty third with a one

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Speaker 1: point five share. By winter, WQAM had dropped Stern, who's

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Speaker 1: headed the satellite radio at that time. He's been there

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Speaker 1: forever now and it's rank fell to seventh. Let's see.

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Speaker 1: Operators of the new station say they've accomplished what they

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Speaker 1: set out to do, get noticed, give listeners a choice,

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Speaker 1: and reach a younger audience. Besides, seven ninety says it's

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Speaker 1: targeting men eighteen to thirty four. Yes, although the Suncentinel rights,

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Speaker 1: but even in that demographic WQAM beat seven ninety in

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Speaker 1: the ratings except in mornings. In the spring. WQAM says

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Speaker 1: the new station will lose money broadcasting the dolphins we did,

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Speaker 1: and suggest it's only a matter of time before the

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Speaker 1: station decides to call it quits. This is more Greg

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Speaker 1: Reid from QAM. I'd still classify it as a feudal effort.

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Speaker 1: It may take them a little longer for reality to hit.

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Speaker 1: I just don't think they have the staying power. The

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Speaker 1: sports radio business is a tough business. So far, all

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Speaker 1: the King's horses and all the King's men haven't brought

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Speaker 1: ratings results. But seven nineties founders say they won't be

404
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Speaker 1: so easily written off. We're going to be here for

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Speaker 1: a while, said Capitol Real Estate Group founder Joel Feinberg,

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Speaker 1: the twenty eight year old millionaire who is financing the

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Speaker 1: bulk of seven ninety. The goal is to be number one,

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Speaker 1: whether we drive them into a format change or into

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Speaker 1: selling the station, or overshadow them with sales and ratings.

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Speaker 1: I didn't do this to be a sports radio station.

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Speaker 1: I did this to be number one. Yes, now, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I was going to say, there's a quote here from you.

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Speaker 1: The new station was hashed out in public relations executive

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Speaker 1: Alan Brown's Hollywood home. John Wiener, who had worked at

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Speaker 1: WQAM as Goldberg's producer and then moved moved to fledgling

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00:21:01,119 --> 00:21:04,840
Speaker 1: nine forties Fox Sports Radio had been devising a plan

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Speaker 1: for a new station. Let's see John Wiener thirty three,

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Speaker 1: this is you thirty three years old at QAM. The

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Speaker 1: hosts were old, said Waxy's general manager, who also partners

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Speaker 1: as Stutgatts on Levittard's show. There was room in this

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Speaker 1: market for a younger hip or sports marketing station. They

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Speaker 1: formed Primetime Media Group. They struck a deal with seven

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Speaker 1: nineties owner Jefferson Pilot Communications to lease the station. Let's

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Speaker 1: see what else it says here. People say you're nuts

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Speaker 1: for taking on QAM, Wiener said, they said you're nuts

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Speaker 1: for taking on Neil. The funny thing is, yeah, they're

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Speaker 1: talking about this like a year into the station, and

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Speaker 1: they know that we're on this trajectory to crush them.

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Speaker 3: Yeah know it.

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Speaker 1: They're trying to pretend that it doesn't exist, but they

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Speaker 1: know with this time, like they're literally I mean that

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Speaker 1: they moved Hank Goldberg off afternoons into mornings is them saying,

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Speaker 1: how how do we fight this station? This station's killing us.

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Speaker 3: Yes, I can't believe Hank did that.

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Speaker 2: Well Man eighteen to thirty four though in the mornings,

436
00:22:16,600 --> 00:22:18,840
Speaker 2: that is shocking to me. It also speaks to how

437
00:22:18,920 --> 00:22:22,719
Speaker 2: fucked up the ratings says, Oh, yeah, but that's what

438
00:22:22,840 --> 00:22:26,560
Speaker 2: it speaks to because it was crazy you would get

439
00:22:26,560 --> 00:22:30,200
Speaker 2: a diary. It's different now, and Hawk we should probably

440
00:22:30,200 --> 00:22:31,320
Speaker 2: explain this to listeners.

441
00:22:31,400 --> 00:22:33,480
Speaker 3: You used to get a used to get a diary.

442
00:22:33,560 --> 00:22:35,680
Speaker 2: They would send you like a dollar or two Arbitrod

443
00:22:35,760 --> 00:22:36,600
Speaker 2: and you would check off.

444
00:22:36,600 --> 00:22:38,359
Speaker 3: The people were very lazy about it.

445
00:22:38,400 --> 00:22:41,680
Speaker 2: And so if one twenty four year old kid checked

446
00:22:41,680 --> 00:22:44,760
Speaker 2: off WQAM in the mornings, probably not knowing that it

447
00:22:44,800 --> 00:22:47,560
Speaker 2: was Hank Goldberg in the mornings, I would get a

448
00:22:47,600 --> 00:22:51,480
Speaker 2: monster rating. But when Arbitrod changed the way they did ratings,

449
00:22:51,520 --> 00:22:53,679
Speaker 2: they went from the diary to the people meter. That

450
00:22:53,880 --> 00:22:56,480
Speaker 2: was the end of Neil Rogers, by the way, because

451
00:22:56,520 --> 00:23:00,640
Speaker 2: it turns out that Neil's numbers weren't what he was,

452
00:23:00,640 --> 00:23:02,880
Speaker 2: wasn't what the diaries were kind of giving off.

453
00:23:02,960 --> 00:23:04,160
Speaker 3: And when those realm.

454
00:23:03,880 --> 00:23:06,439
Speaker 1: Were just sited down, people were used to writing down

455
00:23:06,520 --> 00:23:09,479
Speaker 1: Neil Rogers, you know, tend to yes and the.

456
00:23:09,720 --> 00:23:12,560
Speaker 2: People meet are really just what you were actually listening to.

457
00:23:12,600 --> 00:23:14,200
Speaker 2: You would put it in your car and it would

458
00:23:14,280 --> 00:23:15,600
Speaker 2: track what you were listening to.

459
00:23:16,200 --> 00:23:19,160
Speaker 3: And that that was pretty much the end of Neil.

460
00:23:19,440 --> 00:23:21,040
Speaker 2: I knew we were crazy to take them on, but

461
00:23:21,080 --> 00:23:23,320
Speaker 2: I also knew there was like sports radio was big

462
00:23:23,440 --> 00:23:26,240
Speaker 2: enough where even in Miami, not a great sports market,

463
00:23:26,560 --> 00:23:28,840
Speaker 2: you could have two sports radio stations and both of

464
00:23:28,840 --> 00:23:31,280
Speaker 2: them could be successful. The mistake we made, and you

465
00:23:31,320 --> 00:23:34,000
Speaker 2: and I have discussed this, and the writer is exactly right.

466
00:23:34,760 --> 00:23:36,760
Speaker 2: We took on the Dolphins. It was too much, too early.

467
00:23:36,800 --> 00:23:38,560
Speaker 2: Have we not taken on the Dolphins. I'm not certain

468
00:23:38,560 --> 00:23:39,879
Speaker 2: seven nineties, it's still going.

469
00:23:40,040 --> 00:23:43,639
Speaker 1: You know, it was it was a financial albatross as

470
00:23:43,680 --> 00:23:46,639
Speaker 1: the radio station. It was. It was that costly. It

471
00:23:46,720 --> 00:23:50,439
Speaker 1: was impossible. I mean QAM backed out of the bidding

472
00:23:50,480 --> 00:23:53,680
Speaker 1: for a reason. And the yes, but it also if

473
00:23:53,680 --> 00:23:55,879
Speaker 1: you look at it rather than an investment, if you

474
00:23:55,880 --> 00:23:59,400
Speaker 1: looked at it as a marketing fee, you couldn't spend

475
00:23:59,440 --> 00:24:02,320
Speaker 1: a couple of minis dollars better than getting the Dolphins

476
00:24:02,359 --> 00:24:03,359
Speaker 1: away from QAM.

477
00:24:03,640 --> 00:24:05,760
Speaker 2: No, put us on the map, Yes, put us on

478
00:24:05,800 --> 00:24:08,000
Speaker 2: the map suggested we were going to be here long term.

479
00:24:08,040 --> 00:24:10,720
Speaker 2: But it it also is and we can go through

480
00:24:10,720 --> 00:24:12,439
Speaker 2: this at a later time, but it's the thing.

481
00:24:12,320 --> 00:24:14,960
Speaker 3: That probably ended up ending us. You know, as a

482
00:24:15,040 --> 00:24:15,919
Speaker 3: radio station.

483
00:24:16,080 --> 00:24:19,120
Speaker 1: Says for listeners, the old guard of morning sports talk

484
00:24:19,240 --> 00:24:23,560
Speaker 1: is Goldberg on QAM. Hank Goldberg sixty five mixes his

485
00:24:23,760 --> 00:24:27,760
Speaker 1: brash style of arguing with callers and interviews and local

486
00:24:27,760 --> 00:24:31,800
Speaker 1: and national guests. He's up against former Dolphin Joe Rose,

487
00:24:31,880 --> 00:24:34,920
Speaker 1: who he calls a friend, but says he hasn't changed

488
00:24:34,920 --> 00:24:38,680
Speaker 1: his program. I'm still doing what I do, Goldberg said.

489
00:24:38,840 --> 00:24:40,840
Speaker 1: I don't think Joe and I are the same. Joe

490
00:24:40,840 --> 00:24:44,040
Speaker 1: has a different style. Goldberg said he doesn't consider what

491
00:24:44,080 --> 00:24:47,879
Speaker 1: the competition is doing. Quote, I don't know if they're hipper.

492
00:24:48,280 --> 00:24:51,560
Speaker 1: With a couple of exceptions, they sound bad. Maybe I'm

493
00:24:51,600 --> 00:24:54,040
Speaker 1: older and they don't appeal to me. But then he

494
00:24:54,080 --> 00:24:57,080
Speaker 1: acknowledges that competition is good to me. It's like having

495
00:24:57,080 --> 00:24:59,480
Speaker 1: two newspapers in the market. It's healthy for a listener.

496
00:24:59,480 --> 00:25:03,240
Speaker 1: They have a show. Meanwhile, Joe Rose forty eight, Wow,

497
00:25:03,280 --> 00:25:06,879
Speaker 1: he was forty eight. Now among the senior broadcasters at

498
00:25:06,920 --> 00:25:09,320
Speaker 1: the ticket, I've gone from the youngest one at the

499
00:25:09,320 --> 00:25:13,000
Speaker 1: station to the oldest one. It made me work harder,

500
00:25:13,280 --> 00:25:17,600
Speaker 1: Rose said. Competing against Hank Goldberg, We're still the underdog.

501
00:25:17,720 --> 00:25:20,000
Speaker 1: We're still the new guy on the block. Here you go,

502
00:25:20,119 --> 00:25:24,440
Speaker 1: John Wiener. Wiener said the lineup of Rose Shambi thirty

503
00:25:24,480 --> 00:25:28,960
Speaker 1: five and Levittard thirty six offers listeners a younger option.

504
00:25:29,440 --> 00:25:31,840
Speaker 1: You're not getting the same sixty five year old guy

505
00:25:31,960 --> 00:25:34,520
Speaker 1: after sixty five year old guy after sixty five year

506
00:25:34,560 --> 00:25:37,800
Speaker 1: old guy. Not everyone at QAM is in his sixties,

507
00:25:37,800 --> 00:25:40,640
Speaker 1: but the age of the host swings higher than at

508
00:25:40,680 --> 00:25:44,160
Speaker 1: seven ninety, and that's why the new station is targeting

509
00:25:44,160 --> 00:25:47,800
Speaker 1: a younger audience. Levittard and Miami Herald columnist said he

510
00:25:47,840 --> 00:25:52,720
Speaker 1: was attracted by seven nineties young smart operators and that

511
00:25:52,880 --> 00:25:55,280
Speaker 1: hosting his show on the station is more fun than

512
00:25:55,359 --> 00:25:59,880
Speaker 1: anything I've done professionally. Maybe it's silly, maybe it's sophomoric,

513
00:26:00,200 --> 00:26:04,320
Speaker 1: but we spend three hours a day laughing. Levittard isn't

514
00:26:04,359 --> 00:26:08,119
Speaker 1: convinced there's room for two sports talk stations. We're going

515
00:26:08,160 --> 00:26:11,400
Speaker 1: to have to take everything they have, person by person,

516
00:26:11,840 --> 00:26:17,639
Speaker 1: sissy boy by sissy boy. Levitard said, I love a

517
00:26:17,680 --> 00:26:21,440
Speaker 1: good radio battle, a radio war, man. I don't even

518
00:26:21,480 --> 00:26:25,680
Speaker 1: know if they really exist anymore. The radio wars back

519
00:26:25,720 --> 00:26:30,439
Speaker 1: in the day, Yes, we're so fucking good. Now it

520
00:26:30,520 --> 00:26:34,200
Speaker 1: was just like you caped up for your radio show.

521
00:26:34,320 --> 00:26:36,920
Speaker 1: I guess are there podcast wars?

522
00:26:37,920 --> 00:26:38,000
Speaker 6: Like?

523
00:26:38,440 --> 00:26:40,560
Speaker 2: That's a good question, and tail are their podcast wars.

524
00:26:40,600 --> 00:26:43,919
Speaker 2: I think I'm not even certain WFAN and ESPN and.

525
00:26:43,960 --> 00:26:46,720
Speaker 3: New York have radio wars anymore. I think they ended you.

526
00:26:46,680 --> 00:26:49,360
Speaker 6: Know, that was gonna be my point. That's the closest

527
00:26:49,359 --> 00:26:54,080
Speaker 6: thing we have where Francesa's last days on WFA, him

528
00:26:54,119 --> 00:26:56,800
Speaker 6: feuding with Michael k on radio.

529
00:26:56,920 --> 00:26:57,119
Speaker 1: That was.

530
00:26:57,200 --> 00:26:59,960
Speaker 2: Yes, Well, I'm certain somewhere in Boston, like the sportsp

531
00:27:00,280 --> 00:27:03,320
Speaker 2: Wei are still going at it. That's you know, right

532
00:27:03,640 --> 00:27:06,000
Speaker 2: on the Sportstop. I would never acknowledge that, you know,

533
00:27:06,080 --> 00:27:09,240
Speaker 2: but the room is this.

534
00:27:08,720 --> 00:27:12,400
Speaker 1: This was the best radio war I think in Miami, right.

535
00:27:12,320 --> 00:27:12,800
Speaker 3: This one?

536
00:27:13,280 --> 00:27:17,040
Speaker 1: Oh yes, yes, because it really was. I'm telling you.

537
00:27:17,200 --> 00:27:23,920
Speaker 1: QAM was untouchable. They were untouchable, and we ended up.

538
00:27:24,000 --> 00:27:26,560
Speaker 1: I mean, I know people who listened to the Levatard

539
00:27:26,600 --> 00:27:31,080
Speaker 1: Show forever, like we did a parade to honor Jim Mandic,

540
00:27:31,760 --> 00:27:34,600
Speaker 1: and that parade like it was really just a kind

541
00:27:34,640 --> 00:27:37,359
Speaker 1: of show like, yeah, we don't mind talking about you

542
00:27:37,400 --> 00:27:40,800
Speaker 1: because we think you're irrelevant. It was like so it

543
00:27:40,960 --> 00:27:45,520
Speaker 1: had to be so demoralizing for QAM. And I'm guessing

544
00:27:45,600 --> 00:27:47,760
Speaker 1: you were able to take a lot of their revenue, right,

545
00:27:47,960 --> 00:27:50,960
Speaker 1: like you had to go in and that was your job,

546
00:27:51,080 --> 00:27:52,679
Speaker 1: like you had to go in and take their revenue,

547
00:27:52,720 --> 00:27:54,040
Speaker 1: and I'm guessing that you did.

548
00:27:54,800 --> 00:27:57,280
Speaker 3: We did. Joe Rose was a big key to that.

549
00:27:57,760 --> 00:27:59,679
Speaker 2: Dan would not do anything, you know, in terms of

550
00:27:59,720 --> 00:28:03,120
Speaker 2: endor Smith in the afternoon. But eventually the numbers kind

551
00:28:03,119 --> 00:28:06,359
Speaker 2: of spoke for themselves and this selling of that show

552
00:28:06,400 --> 00:28:08,240
Speaker 2: became a lot easier. But I am telling you Hawk,

553
00:28:08,240 --> 00:28:09,800
Speaker 2: and I've said this before and I'll say it again,

554
00:28:10,320 --> 00:28:13,760
Speaker 2: there was no bigger thing that we did. With all

555
00:28:13,840 --> 00:28:16,000
Speaker 2: due respect to the Dolphins, with all due respect to

556
00:28:16,000 --> 00:28:18,960
Speaker 2: me and Levator, with all due respect to Boog Shambi,

557
00:28:19,200 --> 00:28:23,679
Speaker 2: the biggest move we made was getting Joe Rose to

558
00:28:23,800 --> 00:28:26,920
Speaker 2: leave WQAM and come over and do mornings on seven

559
00:28:27,040 --> 00:28:30,120
Speaker 2: ninety the ticket because Joe Rose is the easiest sell.

560
00:28:29,960 --> 00:28:31,920
Speaker 3: In the history of sports radio. Here.

561
00:28:33,520 --> 00:28:35,600
Speaker 2: He came with millions of dollars he did. How long

562
00:28:35,640 --> 00:28:37,680
Speaker 2: did he end up staying at seven ninety I think

563
00:28:37,680 --> 00:28:39,560
Speaker 2: it was three or four years, and then he eventually

564
00:28:39,640 --> 00:28:41,200
Speaker 2: went back, like when the Dolphins went back.

565
00:28:41,200 --> 00:28:42,520
Speaker 3: I think Joe Rose went back.

566
00:28:42,920 --> 00:28:45,920
Speaker 1: Like did you lose him because QAM just said we'll

567
00:28:45,960 --> 00:28:49,320
Speaker 1: open the wallet for you, or like like I can't

568
00:28:49,320 --> 00:28:53,000
Speaker 1: remember exactly what happened as to why he ended up leaving.

569
00:28:53,160 --> 00:28:57,440
Speaker 1: I mean he felt more comfortable at QAM obviously, yes,

570
00:28:57,600 --> 00:29:01,040
Speaker 1: the Shenanigans that I mean, he he really skewed more

571
00:29:01,080 --> 00:29:04,480
Speaker 1: towards the stuff that we were fighting against. Yes, But

572
00:29:04,760 --> 00:29:07,680
Speaker 1: I wonder why he actually chose to go. I mean, obviously,

573
00:29:07,760 --> 00:29:09,440
Speaker 1: if you say the Dolphins done back to five sixty

574
00:29:09,480 --> 00:29:11,880
Speaker 1: makes sense for him because he was broadcasting or went, yeah,

575
00:29:11,960 --> 00:29:15,160
Speaker 1: went to five sixty. He was broadcasting the games. They

576
00:29:15,240 --> 00:29:16,960
Speaker 1: had to have paid him a boatload of money, and

577
00:29:17,000 --> 00:29:18,880
Speaker 1: I wonder did Joel counter, do you know?

578
00:29:19,680 --> 00:29:21,800
Speaker 2: I think Joel tried to counter. We wanted to keep

579
00:29:21,880 --> 00:29:25,040
Speaker 2: Joe for the reasons. I just explained, to have a

580
00:29:25,080 --> 00:29:27,320
Speaker 2: cash cow like that who's also good at doing radio

581
00:29:27,760 --> 00:29:30,240
Speaker 2: and a South Florida legend, to have him in the

582
00:29:30,280 --> 00:29:33,200
Speaker 2: mornings was key for us, and so I'm certain we

583
00:29:33,280 --> 00:29:34,160
Speaker 2: tried to keep him.

584
00:29:34,160 --> 00:29:35,200
Speaker 3: But I am telling you that he.

585
00:29:35,200 --> 00:29:38,400
Speaker 2: Went back a combination of QAM gave him a pile

586
00:29:38,440 --> 00:29:38,880
Speaker 2: of money.

587
00:29:39,280 --> 00:29:41,560
Speaker 3: No one made more money off this radio war than

588
00:29:41,640 --> 00:29:42,200
Speaker 3: Joe Rose.

589
00:29:42,320 --> 00:29:46,560
Speaker 2: I mean, he parlaid it and leveraged it perfectly. But

590
00:29:46,640 --> 00:29:48,959
Speaker 2: I believe he went back because we had put him

591
00:29:48,960 --> 00:29:51,000
Speaker 2: in the booth to do the Dolphin games. That was

592
00:29:51,000 --> 00:29:53,640
Speaker 2: our decision along with the Dolphins, to put him in

593
00:29:53,680 --> 00:29:55,840
Speaker 2: the booth. And then when the Dolphins left us and

594
00:29:55,880 --> 00:29:58,080
Speaker 2: went back to Qam and I believe that's where they

595
00:29:58,120 --> 00:30:00,480
Speaker 2: went right after Joe Rose had to go. Well, I

596
00:30:00,600 --> 00:30:01,320
Speaker 2: wanted to go with that.

597
00:30:01,480 --> 00:30:06,000
Speaker 1: How long did seven ninety last? And I'm not saying

598
00:30:06,120 --> 00:30:09,040
Speaker 1: as a sports station, because I was working for Odyssey.

599
00:30:09,120 --> 00:30:11,440
Speaker 1: You weren't even a part of it when seven ninety

600
00:30:11,520 --> 00:30:15,120
Speaker 1: was really still going on, So it had it had

601
00:30:15,240 --> 00:30:18,720
Speaker 1: a long run. But how long did seven ninety last

602
00:30:19,440 --> 00:30:23,920
Speaker 1: as a viable financial entity for Joel?

603
00:30:24,360 --> 00:30:24,520
Speaker 3: Now?

604
00:30:25,280 --> 00:30:26,960
Speaker 1: You know, I don't know how much people know about

605
00:30:26,960 --> 00:30:29,960
Speaker 1: the minutia of it, but Joel was the owner. He

606
00:30:30,080 --> 00:30:33,080
Speaker 1: was the millionaire that was really funding everything, and at

607
00:30:33,080 --> 00:30:36,200
Speaker 1: some point he ran out of money because the station

608
00:30:36,320 --> 00:30:38,920
Speaker 1: expenses were just too great, and I guess the advertising

609
00:30:39,000 --> 00:30:42,120
Speaker 1: had dried up a little bit, maybe the economics had

610
00:30:42,240 --> 00:30:45,600
Speaker 1: dried up, and Joel ended up losing control of the

611
00:30:45,640 --> 00:30:49,960
Speaker 1: station to the people who actually owned the signal, which

612
00:30:50,040 --> 00:30:52,760
Speaker 1: was Jefferson Pilot at the beginning. It was Lincoln Financial

613
00:30:53,200 --> 00:30:56,200
Speaker 1: when they took it over. Lincoln Financial media. But how

614
00:30:56,240 --> 00:30:59,040
Speaker 1: long did it How long did seven ninety exist as

615
00:30:59,240 --> 00:31:01,600
Speaker 1: Joel's so.

616
00:31:01,560 --> 00:31:02,240
Speaker 3: It's prime time.

617
00:31:02,320 --> 00:31:06,560
Speaker 2: I believe it was maybe five or six years with Joel.

618
00:31:06,560 --> 00:31:09,160
Speaker 2: I could be wrong here. Joel never ran out of money.

619
00:31:09,920 --> 00:31:13,120
Speaker 2: Joel was tired of losing money, right right, And that's yeah,

620
00:31:13,160 --> 00:31:13,880
Speaker 2: and that's what happened.

621
00:31:13,920 --> 00:31:15,960
Speaker 1: So I was going to ask you, did it ever

622
00:31:16,160 --> 00:31:19,320
Speaker 1: make money? Was the station ever profitable?

623
00:31:20,760 --> 00:31:24,480
Speaker 3: I want to say, so, think.

624
00:31:24,280 --> 00:31:26,480
Speaker 2: About this, because we had the Dolphins and that made

625
00:31:26,480 --> 00:31:28,760
Speaker 2: it nearly impossible for us to be profit Do we.

626
00:31:28,760 --> 00:31:30,360
Speaker 1: Want to share how much we were paying every year

627
00:31:30,400 --> 00:31:31,040
Speaker 1: for the Dolphins?

628
00:31:31,120 --> 00:31:32,760
Speaker 3: Oh? God, it was a lot. It was.

629
00:31:32,920 --> 00:31:35,240
Speaker 2: It was I want to say north of We had

630
00:31:35,280 --> 00:31:37,040
Speaker 2: people who had been doing this for a while, who

631
00:31:37,080 --> 00:31:39,400
Speaker 2: were friends of hours, me and you, and they were like, hey,

632
00:31:39,400 --> 00:31:40,520
Speaker 2: don't do this, don't do it.

633
00:31:40,520 --> 00:31:42,840
Speaker 3: Deal. I want to say north of four million.

634
00:31:42,880 --> 00:31:45,240
Speaker 2: But then you have to factor in all the expenses

635
00:31:45,280 --> 00:31:48,960
Speaker 2: that go with having the Dolphin broadcast, doing the games,

636
00:31:49,080 --> 00:31:52,479
Speaker 2: the announcers, all the stuff that comes with having an

637
00:31:52,600 --> 00:31:58,480
Speaker 2: NFL team on the station, And so I think maybe

638
00:31:58,680 --> 00:32:02,240
Speaker 2: the year after we got rid of the Dolphins was

639
00:32:02,280 --> 00:32:04,720
Speaker 2: the year we were headed towards profitability.

640
00:32:04,800 --> 00:32:05,640
Speaker 3: Believe it or.

641
00:32:05,640 --> 00:32:09,960
Speaker 2: Not, and the station wasn't good enough financial shit. You

642
00:32:10,000 --> 00:32:11,880
Speaker 2: have to keep this in mind how people should listen

643
00:32:11,920 --> 00:32:15,480
Speaker 2: to this, that Dennis Collins was running the radio station

644
00:32:15,720 --> 00:32:18,320
Speaker 2: and he decided I liked this enough, and I liked

645
00:32:18,360 --> 00:32:21,720
Speaker 2: the numbers enough, and by numbers I met ratings and sales,

646
00:32:22,720 --> 00:32:24,680
Speaker 2: that I'm going to keep this thing going, that there

647
00:32:24,760 --> 00:32:28,320
Speaker 2: is a viable radio station here. I'm not certain if

648
00:32:28,360 --> 00:32:30,400
Speaker 2: the station ever made money, and I think the Dolphins

649
00:32:30,440 --> 00:32:32,200
Speaker 2: are the thing that kept us from making money.

650
00:32:32,760 --> 00:32:36,120
Speaker 1: You remember the conversation that you had with Joel when

651
00:32:36,720 --> 00:32:39,080
Speaker 1: he said to you, I'm not even aware of this,

652
00:32:39,120 --> 00:32:41,040
Speaker 1: where he must have said to you, I'm out. I'm

653
00:32:41,080 --> 00:32:43,680
Speaker 1: not doing this anymore. I'm not going to pay another dime.

654
00:32:43,920 --> 00:32:46,280
Speaker 1: I can't lose any more money. Like do you remember

655
00:32:46,840 --> 00:32:50,120
Speaker 1: like going home and telling Abby like it's over. We

656
00:32:50,160 --> 00:32:52,400
Speaker 1: didn't know at that time that Lincoln Financial was going

657
00:32:52,480 --> 00:32:56,120
Speaker 1: to keep us running as seven ninety the ticket. They

658
00:32:56,280 --> 00:32:59,120
Speaker 1: very easily could have kept the name and just went

659
00:32:59,160 --> 00:33:02,360
Speaker 1: to all syndicate programming. They could have turned it into

660
00:33:02,360 --> 00:33:05,280
Speaker 1: a Haitian radio station, a Spanish radio station. They could

661
00:33:05,320 --> 00:33:07,479
Speaker 1: have done anything with it. We didn't know that they

662
00:33:07,480 --> 00:33:10,600
Speaker 1: were going to keep it as is and pump even

663
00:33:10,600 --> 00:33:13,120
Speaker 1: more money into it. But do you remember like a

664
00:33:13,280 --> 00:33:16,480
Speaker 1: singular moment where Joel said to you it's over.

665
00:33:17,520 --> 00:33:22,320
Speaker 2: I don't remember a singular I don't remember a singular moment.

666
00:33:22,360 --> 00:33:24,680
Speaker 2: What I do remember is just having a feeling that

667
00:33:24,720 --> 00:33:29,640
Speaker 2: it was gonna be over soon. And perhaps that's, you know,

668
00:33:29,840 --> 00:33:31,160
Speaker 2: the first time we missed payroll.

669
00:33:32,600 --> 00:33:36,360
Speaker 1: I don't recall ever missing payroll, though I unless I was.

670
00:33:36,480 --> 00:33:39,040
Speaker 2: You didn't miss payroll, and I didn't miss payroll, but

671
00:33:39,120 --> 00:33:41,680
Speaker 2: other people were missing the yes, and so it was

672
00:33:41,760 --> 00:33:44,120
Speaker 2: more just a feeling and a sense that this thing

673
00:33:44,360 --> 00:33:46,760
Speaker 2: and so hawk I had become so in love with

674
00:33:46,800 --> 00:33:48,440
Speaker 2: what it is that we were doing, so in love

675
00:33:48,440 --> 00:33:50,320
Speaker 2: with the radio station that what I do remember is

676
00:33:50,360 --> 00:33:52,520
Speaker 2: having that feeling and having that sense. And I'm certain

677
00:33:52,880 --> 00:33:56,440
Speaker 2: there were conversations between me and Joel. Joel wasn't trying

678
00:33:56,480 --> 00:33:58,840
Speaker 2: to keep any secret. Joel kept that thing going longer

679
00:33:59,560 --> 00:34:01,240
Speaker 2: than I and I give him a ton of credit,

680
00:34:01,680 --> 00:34:03,240
Speaker 2: Uh kept it going longer than I thought.

681
00:34:03,240 --> 00:34:04,800
Speaker 3: He were just looking at the at the.

682
00:34:04,760 --> 00:34:08,600
Speaker 2: Balance sheets with how much the dolphins were costing us.

683
00:34:09,120 --> 00:34:12,840
Speaker 2: I just remember thinking, man, there's a lot of people

684
00:34:14,600 --> 00:34:19,000
Speaker 2: that that that have jobs, who I've become friendly with

685
00:34:19,320 --> 00:34:21,680
Speaker 2: that I want to try to help, you know, save them.

686
00:34:21,680 --> 00:34:25,520
Speaker 2: And I remember just going right into kind of rescue

687
00:34:25,560 --> 00:34:28,000
Speaker 2: mode and going to Dennis Collins and seeing if this

688
00:34:28,040 --> 00:34:30,600
Speaker 2: is something viable, something that he would want to keep going,

689
00:34:30,680 --> 00:34:33,560
Speaker 2: because I didn't want it to end, uh selfishly, for

690
00:34:33,600 --> 00:34:35,759
Speaker 2: personal reasons and for everyone else as well.

691
00:34:35,800 --> 00:34:37,799
Speaker 3: I just didn't want it to end. But I had

692
00:34:37,800 --> 00:34:38,680
Speaker 3: a sense.

693
00:34:39,920 --> 00:34:42,520
Speaker 2: I'm trying to like pinpoint an exact conversation, and there

694
00:34:42,600 --> 00:34:45,960
Speaker 2: was never met with his dad one day and his

695
00:34:46,040 --> 00:34:47,880
Speaker 2: dad was like, this thing isn't viable if we're going

696
00:34:47,920 --> 00:34:48,840
Speaker 2: to keep losing money.

697
00:34:48,960 --> 00:34:52,520
Speaker 1: So you you you were still the GM by the end, right.

698
00:34:52,960 --> 00:34:54,160
Speaker 3: I was still the GM at the end.

699
00:34:54,239 --> 00:34:54,439
Speaker 6: Yeah.

700
00:34:54,560 --> 00:34:54,920
Speaker 3: Yeah.

701
00:34:55,000 --> 00:34:57,160
Speaker 2: When I handed it over to Dennis, I became just talent.

702
00:34:57,200 --> 00:34:59,120
Speaker 2: He took over the radio station. I was no longer

703
00:34:59,160 --> 00:35:01,360
Speaker 2: the GM, so I was just doing the show with

704
00:35:01,440 --> 00:35:04,960
Speaker 2: Tim Dennis's credit. He loved the numbers, he loved the shows,

705
00:35:05,000 --> 00:35:08,279
Speaker 2: he loved the station. He saw what it is. We

706
00:35:08,360 --> 00:35:10,400
Speaker 2: all saw why we were in it with the Dolphins.

707
00:35:10,440 --> 00:35:12,680
Speaker 2: If you just take this thing out of the equation,

708
00:35:13,360 --> 00:35:15,200
Speaker 2: we can make money with this radio station.

709
00:35:15,280 --> 00:35:17,840
Speaker 1: And we did well, you would put together a killer

710
00:35:17,920 --> 00:35:20,920
Speaker 1: sales staff. If I remember correctly, it was a killer

711
00:35:20,960 --> 00:35:24,680
Speaker 1: sales staff. And we were super creative with what we

712
00:35:24,680 --> 00:35:27,040
Speaker 1: were doing. And we were doing so much stuff, you know,

713
00:35:27,239 --> 00:35:29,839
Speaker 1: out and about and in the community and at big

714
00:35:29,840 --> 00:35:34,000
Speaker 1: events and creating our own big events. So I'm guessing, obviously,

715
00:35:34,160 --> 00:35:35,960
Speaker 1: how long did would we end up with the Dolphins?

716
00:35:35,960 --> 00:35:36,640
Speaker 1: Two seasons?

717
00:35:37,000 --> 00:35:38,600
Speaker 3: I think we had him three or four seasons, Act

718
00:35:38,640 --> 00:35:39,520
Speaker 3: three or four seasons.

719
00:35:39,520 --> 00:35:42,440
Speaker 1: So when they had to write that rights check, that

720
00:35:42,600 --> 00:35:45,160
Speaker 1: was the killer every year for the radio station.

721
00:35:45,400 --> 00:35:45,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, every year.

722
00:35:46,000 --> 00:35:48,040
Speaker 2: I forget exactly how it was built, like if it

723
00:35:48,080 --> 00:35:50,960
Speaker 2: was done lump one lump payment, did we do it

724
00:35:51,160 --> 00:35:53,400
Speaker 2: you know monthly? I just remember it being a lot

725
00:35:53,480 --> 00:35:55,520
Speaker 2: and for a startup radio station, And shame on all

726
00:35:55,560 --> 00:35:56,359
Speaker 2: of us, Shame on me.

727
00:35:56,400 --> 00:35:59,120
Speaker 3: Especially I was the GM just not knowing.

728
00:35:59,239 --> 00:36:03,320
Speaker 2: Okay, you have to pay x amount for the Dolphins

729
00:36:03,360 --> 00:36:04,960
Speaker 2: just to have the rights, just to be able to

730
00:36:05,000 --> 00:36:07,280
Speaker 2: air the game, just to be able to use the logos.

731
00:36:07,320 --> 00:36:10,000
Speaker 2: But there is probably a million to two million dollars

732
00:36:10,040 --> 00:36:11,680
Speaker 2: on top of the rights fee that you have to

733
00:36:11,719 --> 00:36:13,520
Speaker 2: pay on an annual basis.

734
00:36:13,920 --> 00:36:17,239
Speaker 3: Just to produce the games. And so that was in fact,

735
00:36:17,280 --> 00:36:18,000
Speaker 3: So think about that.

736
00:36:18,120 --> 00:36:22,280
Speaker 2: Huh, you have an expense on a sports radio station

737
00:36:22,800 --> 00:36:28,480
Speaker 2: that is costing you six million dollars every single year, and.

738
00:36:28,360 --> 00:36:29,280
Speaker 3: That's not feasible.

739
00:36:29,440 --> 00:36:32,640
Speaker 2: It's just not not in by the way, it's why

740
00:36:32,680 --> 00:36:36,320
Speaker 2: play by play rights kind of were devalued as everyone

741
00:36:36,400 --> 00:36:38,000
Speaker 2: kind of moved on with sports radio.

742
00:36:38,040 --> 00:36:39,400
Speaker 3: Everyone started to figure.

743
00:36:39,120 --> 00:36:42,359
Speaker 2: Out, hey, I'm paying way too much for the New

744
00:36:42,440 --> 00:36:44,960
Speaker 2: York Yankees to air games at seven o'clock.

745
00:36:44,960 --> 00:36:46,960
Speaker 3: We can't make money off of this. It's nice to have,

746
00:36:47,440 --> 00:36:48,560
Speaker 3: but there's no making money.

747
00:36:48,600 --> 00:36:50,759
Speaker 2: And that's why the other deals that we did later

748
00:36:50,840 --> 00:36:53,839
Speaker 2: on Panthers Marlins, they started paying us to be on.

749
00:36:53,760 --> 00:36:55,240
Speaker 3: The radio station. Yeah.

750
00:36:55,280 --> 00:36:58,360
Speaker 1: Either instead of paying a rights fee where you're paying

751
00:36:58,400 --> 00:37:00,840
Speaker 1: the team for the rights to bry guess they're games,

752
00:37:01,040 --> 00:37:04,000
Speaker 1: you would either do a revenue share where it's hey,

753
00:37:04,480 --> 00:37:07,719
Speaker 1: we'll sell the advertising for your games and we'll split it,

754
00:37:07,760 --> 00:37:11,000
Speaker 1: but we're not paying you in advance for the games. Or,

755
00:37:11,080 --> 00:37:13,520
Speaker 1: like you said, a lot of the sports franchises, they

756
00:37:13,600 --> 00:37:16,560
Speaker 1: need a radio home. They don't want to go without

757
00:37:16,640 --> 00:37:18,720
Speaker 1: having a radio home, and so they end up paying

758
00:37:18,719 --> 00:37:21,960
Speaker 1: the radio station. Now, in certain markets, that doesn't happen.

759
00:37:22,080 --> 00:37:25,160
Speaker 1: New York Chicago. There's still fees to be paid, but

760
00:37:25,360 --> 00:37:27,880
Speaker 1: not on radio on the radio side, not like they

761
00:37:28,000 --> 00:37:28,400
Speaker 1: used to be.

762
00:37:28,960 --> 00:37:30,280
Speaker 3: So think about this Hawk.

763
00:37:30,960 --> 00:37:33,879
Speaker 2: We paid the Dolphins that much money for the rights

764
00:37:33,920 --> 00:37:36,000
Speaker 2: to their team, and their team was kind of mediocre

765
00:37:36,040 --> 00:37:39,560
Speaker 2: at the time, and then the Heat got Lebron and

766
00:37:39,600 --> 00:37:42,719
Speaker 2: they got weighed and they got Chris Bosh and we

767
00:37:42,719 --> 00:37:43,759
Speaker 2: didn't pay a penny for it.

768
00:37:45,200 --> 00:37:48,400
Speaker 1: No, we did, we did, did we?

769
00:37:48,880 --> 00:37:49,120
Speaker 3: Yeah?

770
00:37:49,200 --> 00:37:51,560
Speaker 1: I have the contract. You don't realize I was program

771
00:37:51,600 --> 00:37:52,520
Speaker 1: director at the time.

772
00:37:52,760 --> 00:37:54,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, But did they eat sell it themselves all the

773
00:37:54,680 --> 00:37:55,440
Speaker 2: games and stuff?

774
00:37:55,680 --> 00:37:59,440
Speaker 1: Not the first three seasons. The first three seasons we

775
00:37:59,520 --> 00:38:03,439
Speaker 1: paid and exorb but that was under Lincoln Financial, right,

776
00:38:04,239 --> 00:38:05,160
Speaker 1: that wasn't Joel.

777
00:38:05,280 --> 00:38:07,520
Speaker 2: So Dennis decided to take this off because I got

778
00:38:07,560 --> 00:38:09,000
Speaker 2: the call at the time from the Heat and I

779
00:38:09,040 --> 00:38:11,440
Speaker 2: handed that call over to Dennis, and Dennis negotiated and

780
00:38:11,480 --> 00:38:12,120
Speaker 2: worked out the deal.

781
00:38:12,480 --> 00:38:15,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, I ended up because I was the program director.

782
00:38:15,200 --> 00:38:18,520
Speaker 1: I was in on those meetings, and I remember Dennis

783
00:38:18,600 --> 00:38:21,400
Speaker 1: Colin saying to our friend Jim Fravola, who was running

784
00:38:21,440 --> 00:38:25,040
Speaker 1: sales along with Howard Davis, saying, are we going to

785
00:38:25,080 --> 00:38:28,040
Speaker 1: be able to recoup this money? Like I want the

786
00:38:28,080 --> 00:38:30,239
Speaker 1: heat with Lebron and Wade and Bosh. But are we

787
00:38:30,280 --> 00:38:32,560
Speaker 1: going to be able to recoup this money, which is

788
00:38:32,600 --> 00:38:34,680
Speaker 1: the same thing I'm sure you were asked. I mean,

789
00:38:34,719 --> 00:38:37,239
Speaker 1: anybody in sales is going to figure out a way.

790
00:38:37,280 --> 00:38:39,240
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, we're going to recoup this money.

791
00:38:39,239 --> 00:38:40,320
Speaker 3: But there were plenty of people.

792
00:38:40,400 --> 00:38:42,880
Speaker 2: Joel was so competitive that even I and there were

793
00:38:42,880 --> 00:38:44,960
Speaker 2: plenty of people. And I'm not putting it on Joel

794
00:38:45,120 --> 00:38:47,239
Speaker 2: by no means because this was just if you know Joel,

795
00:38:47,280 --> 00:38:50,400
Speaker 2: this was Joel. There were plenty of people internally saint Joel,

796
00:38:50,480 --> 00:38:52,359
Speaker 2: we don't need the Dolphins, We're gonna be fine without

797
00:38:52,360 --> 00:38:52,920
Speaker 2: the Dolphins.

798
00:38:52,920 --> 00:38:57,600
Speaker 3: And Joel was like, I'm fucking getting the Dolphins. Yes.

799
00:38:57,719 --> 00:39:01,360
Speaker 1: It was that same mentality that led him to rent

800
00:39:01,400 --> 00:39:04,720
Speaker 1: out the Versace Mansion when the Super Bowl was in town.

801
00:39:04,920 --> 00:39:09,239
Speaker 1: Like this was Joel did photo shoots. Man, this wasn't

802
00:39:09,239 --> 00:39:10,280
Speaker 1: a quiet owner.

803
00:39:10,600 --> 00:39:14,000
Speaker 3: Now, this was a young, good looking real estate mogul. Yep.

804
00:39:14,560 --> 00:39:17,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, this was a dude trying to make his mark

805
00:39:17,600 --> 00:39:22,640
Speaker 1: as well in you know, business, and he wanted all

806
00:39:22,640 --> 00:39:26,080
Speaker 1: the big properties like the Dolphins, like he wanted all

807
00:39:26,120 --> 00:39:29,600
Speaker 1: that shit. So he even my guess is if you

808
00:39:29,640 --> 00:39:31,759
Speaker 1: could go back in time and really look at it.

809
00:39:32,160 --> 00:39:36,000
Speaker 1: I my guess you were hesitant to take on that

810
00:39:36,120 --> 00:39:39,480
Speaker 1: kind of burden with the Dolphins. My guess is Joel's like,

811
00:39:39,560 --> 00:39:40,239
Speaker 1: we're doing it.

812
00:39:40,600 --> 00:39:40,680
Speaker 5: No.

813
00:39:40,800 --> 00:39:43,520
Speaker 2: It made me nervous then it still makes me queazy

814
00:39:43,560 --> 00:39:46,640
Speaker 2: now just thinking about it. But certainly that's and we

815
00:39:46,640 --> 00:39:48,839
Speaker 2: were a startup station. I didn't want to take on

816
00:39:48,920 --> 00:39:51,239
Speaker 2: the Dolphins. It was so enormous that it was not

817
00:39:51,360 --> 00:39:54,239
Speaker 2: something that I wanted to take on, certainly not at

818
00:39:54,239 --> 00:39:56,319
Speaker 2: that price. And we had good people advising us, and

819
00:39:56,360 --> 00:39:58,840
Speaker 2: those people were saying, hey, don't do this deal. It

820
00:39:58,920 --> 00:40:01,360
Speaker 2: is not a good deal. People that I trust, and

821
00:40:01,360 --> 00:40:03,640
Speaker 2: I would bring that to Joel. And just when Joel

822
00:40:03,640 --> 00:40:06,359
Speaker 2: wanted something, he wanted something hock and so he was like,

823
00:40:06,680 --> 00:40:10,759
Speaker 2: figure it out. He called me partsy figure it out, Partsy.

824
00:40:11,080 --> 00:40:12,160
Speaker 1: Oh, because you were his partner.

825
00:40:12,239 --> 00:40:13,600
Speaker 3: Nickname for partner, yes.

826
00:40:14,000 --> 00:40:16,600
Speaker 1: Pardsy about that a terrible nickname.

827
00:40:16,680 --> 00:40:18,239
Speaker 3: Was it was awful, but figure out.

828
00:40:18,239 --> 00:40:21,640
Speaker 1: Speaking of that, so I apologize to listeners who wanted

829
00:40:21,640 --> 00:40:24,280
Speaker 1: to laugh and hear the shula blowing up the bathroom

830
00:40:24,320 --> 00:40:28,240
Speaker 1: at Shula story. This was very radio e which sometimes

831
00:40:28,280 --> 00:40:30,719
Speaker 1: you do a radio show and you go, hey, this

832
00:40:30,840 --> 00:40:33,400
Speaker 1: was a little sportsy, but it just happened. We needed

833
00:40:33,400 --> 00:40:36,600
Speaker 1: to break down Paul Laduka and Brad Penny, like, yes,

834
00:40:36,760 --> 00:40:39,680
Speaker 1: sometimes you can't be all things to everyone, but there

835
00:40:39,680 --> 00:40:42,160
Speaker 1: are so many people who are interested in the history

836
00:40:42,960 --> 00:40:46,760
Speaker 1: of seven ninety the ticket that I get these requests

837
00:40:46,880 --> 00:40:48,799
Speaker 1: all the time, and it's like, we'll talk about I

838
00:40:48,840 --> 00:40:53,000
Speaker 1: got a request. Can you talk about Steve White? It says, Hack,

839
00:40:53,360 --> 00:40:55,759
Speaker 1: big fan. Since I was a student at UM and

840
00:40:55,800 --> 00:40:58,400
Speaker 1: your lead in was Mini in the mid Day that

841
00:40:58,480 --> 00:41:03,239
Speaker 1: was Craig min Orvini was a regular at Dania Highley's.

842
00:41:03,400 --> 00:41:07,760
Speaker 1: Still have my stugottscot wax t shirt through two days.

843
00:41:08,200 --> 00:41:12,120
Speaker 1: Hck your current radio show. I'm still a listener, says

844
00:41:12,640 --> 00:41:17,160
Speaker 1: People are covering the relevant radio show questions, but I

845
00:41:17,200 --> 00:41:20,640
Speaker 1: have a South Florida radio question. Can you shed more

846
00:41:20,719 --> 00:41:24,960
Speaker 1: light on Steve White? For years, I believe Ginoterretta was

847
00:41:25,000 --> 00:41:28,520
Speaker 1: boring doing the having to share a show with Steve White.

848
00:41:28,520 --> 00:41:30,880
Speaker 1: Then thanks to your show, we learned that GINO is

849
00:41:31,000 --> 00:41:35,120
Speaker 1: very funny and very interesting, very insightful. People know some

850
00:41:35,280 --> 00:41:38,400
Speaker 1: of the backstories, and if you ask a Steve White question,

851
00:41:38,600 --> 00:41:40,920
Speaker 1: like you know some of the backstories of seven ninety

852
00:41:40,960 --> 00:41:42,879
Speaker 1: The Ticket. I'm not going to get into it here

853
00:41:42,880 --> 00:41:45,920
Speaker 1: because we got to wrap it up anyway. But in

854
00:41:45,960 --> 00:41:50,840
Speaker 1: all honesty, some people are interested in these stories, like

855
00:41:50,960 --> 00:41:54,080
Speaker 1: the history and the negotiating of the dolphins' rights and

856
00:41:54,120 --> 00:41:57,680
Speaker 1: how it ended up really being the death knell for

857
00:41:57,760 --> 00:42:01,200
Speaker 1: seven ninety the Ticket in its first in Carnation, and

858
00:42:01,280 --> 00:42:03,160
Speaker 1: I know some people want to just listen and hear

859
00:42:03,200 --> 00:42:05,799
Speaker 1: the blowing up Shula's bathroom story, and we'll get we'll

860
00:42:05,800 --> 00:42:07,480
Speaker 1: get into we will get into that.

861
00:42:07,560 --> 00:42:10,000
Speaker 2: This was way too serious. So you dragged me down.

862
00:42:10,560 --> 00:42:13,400
Speaker 2: You dragged me down that I dragged Dan down in

863
00:42:13,440 --> 00:42:14,239
Speaker 2: that first.

864
00:42:14,920 --> 00:42:19,280
Speaker 1: Sometimes it happens, but it reminds me a couple of things.

865
00:42:19,600 --> 00:42:23,400
Speaker 1: So if you want a cameo from me and Stu Gotts,

866
00:42:23,400 --> 00:42:25,880
Speaker 1: go to cameo search Mark Hackman. You can order a

867
00:42:25,920 --> 00:42:27,640
Speaker 1: cameo for us because we're getting together in the next

868
00:42:27,680 --> 00:42:30,480
Speaker 1: couple of days. Go to Dec eighty four on Atlantic

869
00:42:30,520 --> 00:42:34,359
Speaker 1: Avenue in Delray Beach or Burton Max's in Delray Beach

870
00:42:34,520 --> 00:42:37,640
Speaker 1: as well. Ask for Buddha if you're at Burton Max's.

871
00:42:37,640 --> 00:42:41,000
Speaker 1: But I implemented a new finish to the show last episode,

872
00:42:41,040 --> 00:42:45,200
Speaker 1: do you recall, no, you have to name three athlete

873
00:42:45,320 --> 00:42:48,600
Speaker 1: nicknames before we're able to sign off. I like this.

874
00:42:50,120 --> 00:42:53,040
Speaker 3: Who oh god, here we go.

875
00:42:53,040 --> 00:42:56,480
Speaker 1: Trying to make them easy. So we're here all day.

876
00:42:56,680 --> 00:42:58,480
Speaker 1: Who is the Minister of Defense?

877
00:42:59,640 --> 00:43:02,640
Speaker 3: Reggie Reggie White, You've got you're doing.

878
00:43:02,520 --> 00:43:04,640
Speaker 2: An opposite though it's usually Reggie White, and I say

879
00:43:04,640 --> 00:43:06,080
Speaker 2: Minister of Defense.

880
00:43:05,680 --> 00:43:07,560
Speaker 1: And oh, you're right, Okay, let me start it over.

881
00:43:07,800 --> 00:43:08,279
Speaker 1: Let me start it.

882
00:43:08,400 --> 00:43:10,360
Speaker 3: Who is the Minister of Defense?

883
00:43:10,440 --> 00:43:14,240
Speaker 1: Let me let me start it over. I got a Rose,

884
00:43:14,600 --> 00:43:26,279
Speaker 1: Pete Rose, Charlie Hustle, Calvin Johnson, Megatron, George Gervin, the Iceman.

885
00:43:26,800 --> 00:43:32,719
Speaker 1: We'll talk to you next episode with Stu Gotts and

886
00:43:32,840 --> 00:43:33,240
Speaker 1: Hawkman