1 00:00:01,440 --> 00:00:03,440 Speaker 1: Bodybags, but Joseph's gotten more. 2 00:00:05,640 --> 00:00:09,200 Speaker 2: Here we are, we're going to be. This is episode 3 00:00:09,640 --> 00:00:14,680 Speaker 2: the second episode of our top ten list for twenty 4 00:00:14,720 --> 00:00:20,160 Speaker 2: twenty five. And again before I name the final four, 5 00:00:20,760 --> 00:00:24,119 Speaker 2: I would like just for a moment again to thank 6 00:00:24,640 --> 00:00:28,040 Speaker 2: you all of my friends out there that have supported 7 00:00:28,040 --> 00:00:31,320 Speaker 2: brother David and myself through our journey in twenty twenty 8 00:00:31,360 --> 00:00:40,680 Speaker 2: five on Bodybacks. And I'm sure if if twenty twenty 9 00:00:40,720 --> 00:00:43,879 Speaker 2: six is going to be anything like twenty twenty five was, 10 00:00:44,479 --> 00:00:49,960 Speaker 2: we'll have much much more to talk about. With that said, 11 00:00:50,200 --> 00:00:54,000 Speaker 2: I'm Joseph Scott Morgan and for the end of twenty 12 00:00:54,880 --> 00:01:03,800 Speaker 2: twenty five, this is Bodybacks. Well, I'd have to say 13 00:01:04,560 --> 00:01:08,720 Speaker 2: I would have to say that if I could, I 14 00:01:08,720 --> 00:01:12,680 Speaker 2: don't know, give kind of a visual image here, I'd 15 00:01:12,760 --> 00:01:17,440 Speaker 2: say that the last four are our top four episodes 16 00:01:17,760 --> 00:01:21,760 Speaker 2: for most downloaded over the course of twenty twenty five. 17 00:01:22,200 --> 00:01:25,039 Speaker 2: I'd have to say that it's a great big exclamation 18 00:01:25,200 --> 00:01:30,120 Speaker 2: point on a series of cases, or a series of 19 00:01:30,160 --> 00:01:34,080 Speaker 2: events rather that seem like they would never end, and 20 00:01:34,680 --> 00:01:38,480 Speaker 2: they came to an abrupt end, and we had more answers, 21 00:01:38,680 --> 00:01:42,400 Speaker 2: certainly at the end of the year than we did 22 00:01:42,560 --> 00:01:45,520 Speaker 2: than when we started. I think that in any criminal investigation, 23 00:01:45,560 --> 00:01:48,720 Speaker 2: and certainly with forensics, you want that kind of a 24 00:01:48,880 --> 00:01:54,960 Speaker 2: culmative event, you know that. And again, we don't use 25 00:01:55,000 --> 00:01:57,920 Speaker 2: the word closure on this show because we believe in it. 26 00:01:58,040 --> 00:02:02,960 Speaker 2: It's not something that's real, but at least it has 27 00:02:03,080 --> 00:02:06,440 Speaker 2: given us an idea and certainly the families that are 28 00:02:06,480 --> 00:02:10,520 Speaker 2: involved in these cases, an idea as to which way 29 00:02:10,560 --> 00:02:13,200 Speaker 2: the wind is blowing and maybe to a certain extent, 30 00:02:13,720 --> 00:02:15,120 Speaker 2: what the future holes man. 31 00:02:16,639 --> 00:02:21,679 Speaker 1: You know, Joe, I think that one of the interesting 32 00:02:22,560 --> 00:02:26,680 Speaker 1: tidbits on the program this year was the amount of 33 00:02:26,720 --> 00:02:31,240 Speaker 1: time not just you and I, but crime coverage in 34 00:02:31,320 --> 00:02:37,360 Speaker 1: general spent on the Brian Coberger case. And you know, 35 00:02:37,800 --> 00:02:42,040 Speaker 1: there's a couple of moments in crime where you kind 36 00:02:42,080 --> 00:02:46,040 Speaker 1: of remember where you were when something happened, like the O. J. 37 00:02:46,200 --> 00:02:50,120 Speaker 1: Simpson trial when they said not guilty, and you know, 38 00:02:50,160 --> 00:02:51,960 Speaker 1: if it doesn't fit, you must have quit those types 39 00:02:52,000 --> 00:02:55,680 Speaker 1: of things. And with regard to one of the biggest 40 00:02:56,400 --> 00:03:01,200 Speaker 1: cases this year, the Idaho murders, was the sentencing of 41 00:03:01,240 --> 00:03:05,080 Speaker 1: Brian Coberger. But it wasn't just the sentencing. A lot 42 00:03:05,120 --> 00:03:08,840 Speaker 1: of us were hoping that at sentencing there would be allocution. 43 00:03:08,960 --> 00:03:12,360 Speaker 1: He would actually be forced to say what he did. 44 00:03:13,240 --> 00:03:17,120 Speaker 1: And it may be why, but at least what he did, 45 00:03:17,240 --> 00:03:20,720 Speaker 1: you know, specifically walking in the house, going doing what 46 00:03:20,760 --> 00:03:23,480 Speaker 1: we wanted to hear that. I felt like it was old. 47 00:03:23,800 --> 00:03:27,359 Speaker 1: I felt like that I cannot believe they didn't make 48 00:03:27,480 --> 00:03:29,840 Speaker 1: him do that Joe as part of the deal. 49 00:03:31,160 --> 00:03:35,120 Speaker 2: On one hand, and you know my thoughts about this, 50 00:03:35,240 --> 00:03:37,640 Speaker 2: I agree with it because the template that always have 51 00:03:37,760 --> 00:03:40,720 Speaker 2: in my mind about any kind of alocution always goes 52 00:03:40,760 --> 00:03:43,720 Speaker 2: back to BTK, where he was compelled by the courts 53 00:03:43,760 --> 00:03:48,360 Speaker 2: in Kansas to say specifically what he had done. And 54 00:03:48,400 --> 00:03:50,880 Speaker 2: there's all kinds of legal ease involved in this, and 55 00:03:51,080 --> 00:03:53,760 Speaker 2: how you know they say, you know, there's several people 56 00:03:53,800 --> 00:03:56,440 Speaker 2: that have said over time, you can't actually compel them 57 00:03:56,480 --> 00:04:00,280 Speaker 2: to do that, or let me rephrase that, it's not 58 00:04:00,320 --> 00:04:03,280 Speaker 2: that you can't compel them, it's there are certain points 59 00:04:03,320 --> 00:04:07,360 Speaker 2: of leverage that you have to have the gears of 60 00:04:07,440 --> 00:04:10,360 Speaker 2: everything in order to set this up so that the 61 00:04:10,440 --> 00:04:13,400 Speaker 2: court can then leverage him into saying it. And for 62 00:04:13,440 --> 00:04:15,720 Speaker 2: whatever reason, the prosecution, the courts, however you want to 63 00:04:15,760 --> 00:04:18,800 Speaker 2: frame it, they didn't have the will to do it. 64 00:04:19,720 --> 00:04:23,120 Speaker 2: But I look at this and that brings us to 65 00:04:24,080 --> 00:04:30,640 Speaker 2: episode the fourth most downloaded episode that brings me to 66 00:04:30,800 --> 00:04:37,200 Speaker 2: the family of k Leagansalves because with the fourth, though 67 00:04:37,279 --> 00:04:41,920 Speaker 2: he did not allocute, there was a certain let's see 68 00:04:41,960 --> 00:04:46,280 Speaker 2: I do I say this? There was there was a 69 00:04:46,279 --> 00:04:54,279 Speaker 2: certain amount of it's not joy I don't know really 70 00:04:54,360 --> 00:04:57,720 Speaker 2: how to there was there was something that came full 71 00:04:57,720 --> 00:05:00,760 Speaker 2: circle in that moment to sit there and watch him 72 00:05:00,760 --> 00:05:04,719 Speaker 2: with those dead eyes kind of squirm, you know, as 73 00:05:05,120 --> 00:05:14,039 Speaker 2: Olivia Kaylee's sister stood there at the lectern, and you 74 00:05:14,080 --> 00:05:21,200 Speaker 2: know that she directed her comments at him and just 75 00:05:21,320 --> 00:05:29,640 Speaker 2: said precisely what she wanted. There was no like weeping, uh, 76 00:05:29,880 --> 00:05:33,479 Speaker 2: there was no you know, kind of circumventing what the 77 00:05:33,560 --> 00:05:37,320 Speaker 2: reality was for her. It was dead on. She was 78 00:05:37,360 --> 00:05:40,640 Speaker 2: like General Patton. Yeah, that knew that she had an 79 00:05:40,680 --> 00:05:43,240 Speaker 2: objective and she didn't care what God in the way. 80 00:05:43,400 --> 00:05:46,040 Speaker 2: She was going to make make her voice heard in 81 00:05:46,080 --> 00:05:49,520 Speaker 2: this environment. And that's kind of summed up in the 82 00:05:49,560 --> 00:05:53,320 Speaker 2: way that that we entitled this episode Dave and just 83 00:05:53,400 --> 00:05:56,320 Speaker 2: let me and this is again the fourth one, and 84 00:05:56,400 --> 00:05:59,400 Speaker 2: these are this is you know, kind of loosely paraphrasing 85 00:05:59,480 --> 00:06:03,200 Speaker 2: what she said, but the title of this was delusional 86 00:06:04,160 --> 00:06:14,520 Speaker 2: pathetic average, you are nothing failed rapper Brian Coberger and 87 00:06:15,040 --> 00:06:19,000 Speaker 2: you know it really put really did put that exclamation 88 00:06:19,240 --> 00:06:24,240 Speaker 2: point on this case. I think we had heard a 89 00:06:24,279 --> 00:06:27,720 Speaker 2: lot from other people, but Olivia is like one of 90 00:06:27,760 --> 00:06:29,920 Speaker 2: these people that kind of floats in out of the mist, 91 00:06:30,560 --> 00:06:34,640 Speaker 2: you don't really she is one of these characters that 92 00:06:34,720 --> 00:06:38,000 Speaker 2: had not really and I'm not diminishing her by saying characters, 93 00:06:38,040 --> 00:06:41,120 Speaker 2: but I'm looking at this from a narrative perspective. If 94 00:06:41,200 --> 00:06:44,680 Speaker 2: we're watching a play almost Shakespearean here where she all 95 00:06:44,680 --> 00:06:48,000 Speaker 2: of a sudden just kind of you know, walks into 96 00:06:48,000 --> 00:06:50,400 Speaker 2: the stage and she just drops the hammer of the 97 00:06:50,440 --> 00:06:53,520 Speaker 2: gods at this moment in time, that's you know, for me, 98 00:06:54,200 --> 00:06:56,400 Speaker 2: out of all of the episodes in the top ten, 99 00:06:56,520 --> 00:06:59,720 Speaker 2: this is probably the one that really grabbed me by 100 00:06:59,720 --> 00:07:04,200 Speaker 2: my road and brought us back to the reality of 101 00:07:04,200 --> 00:07:06,240 Speaker 2: what this family had gone through at the hands of 102 00:07:06,279 --> 00:07:08,359 Speaker 2: this monster day. 103 00:07:08,400 --> 00:07:11,480 Speaker 1: One of the things about this case joke the Gonzavaz 104 00:07:11,560 --> 00:07:15,000 Speaker 1: family is the reason we know a lot of the 105 00:07:15,040 --> 00:07:20,000 Speaker 1: information we know because from the very beginning they were 106 00:07:20,040 --> 00:07:22,400 Speaker 1: the ones who spoke out. It was Kaylee's mom and 107 00:07:22,480 --> 00:07:26,840 Speaker 1: dad who went on TV because they were frustrated, you know, 108 00:07:27,040 --> 00:07:31,360 Speaker 1: and they didn't always come off the best, but they were. 109 00:07:32,640 --> 00:07:35,000 Speaker 1: The thing is is that you could understand why, you know, 110 00:07:35,040 --> 00:07:37,640 Speaker 1: they were what they were dealing with, the shock and 111 00:07:37,680 --> 00:07:43,880 Speaker 1: the emotional pain, anguish and just frustration at everything. And 112 00:07:44,560 --> 00:07:48,320 Speaker 1: when Olivia Gonzabz talking about her sister, there was one 113 00:07:48,320 --> 00:07:50,480 Speaker 1: phrase that she said, and I thought it was really 114 00:07:50,560 --> 00:07:56,280 Speaker 1: dead on. She said, you orchestrated this like you thought 115 00:07:56,360 --> 00:08:00,240 Speaker 1: you were God. Now look at you, begging a court 116 00:08:00,360 --> 00:08:07,120 Speaker 1: room for scraps. You spent months preparing and still all 117 00:08:07,200 --> 00:08:14,280 Speaker 1: it took was my sister and a sheath that in 118 00:08:14,480 --> 00:08:16,360 Speaker 1: capital encapsulates so much. 119 00:08:16,800 --> 00:08:21,000 Speaker 2: Yeah, and that's something that you know that it's there. 120 00:08:21,040 --> 00:08:24,200 Speaker 2: It's kind of like the distillation of spirits. You get 121 00:08:24,240 --> 00:08:26,480 Speaker 2: down to the root of it, you get there to 122 00:08:26,520 --> 00:08:31,080 Speaker 2: that point where if anyone could say something that power 123 00:08:31,680 --> 00:08:36,320 Speaker 2: you know that's contained in that that hit it's really 124 00:08:36,400 --> 00:08:39,960 Speaker 2: you know, he's hard to read, I think, and that 125 00:08:40,280 --> 00:08:42,320 Speaker 2: you know, there's been a lot made out of that, 126 00:08:42,440 --> 00:08:46,240 Speaker 2: you know, with those dead, hollow eyes, you know his 127 00:08:46,480 --> 00:08:49,640 Speaker 2: kind of hooded, hooded stare that he has. You know 128 00:08:49,760 --> 00:08:53,800 Speaker 2: that he gazes out at everybody in a very menacing way. Yeah, 129 00:08:56,120 --> 00:09:02,400 Speaker 2: and you know, for that moment in time, he was 130 00:09:02,480 --> 00:09:06,480 Speaker 2: not the most dangerous person in that room. He really wasn't. 131 00:09:06,640 --> 00:09:09,200 Speaker 2: And you know, I wouldn't presume to, you know, to 132 00:09:10,840 --> 00:09:15,560 Speaker 2: frame the Gonzalezes as dangerous people. However, I think that 133 00:09:15,920 --> 00:09:19,000 Speaker 2: taken on the whole, you look at what they had 134 00:09:19,040 --> 00:09:22,000 Speaker 2: been through. There's a term I like to use when 135 00:09:22,040 --> 00:09:25,040 Speaker 2: life has been really bad for me, and I'll say, 136 00:09:25,080 --> 00:09:27,160 Speaker 2: it feels like it feels as though I've been drug 137 00:09:27,200 --> 00:09:30,600 Speaker 2: through a keyhole. And I think a lot of people 138 00:09:30,679 --> 00:09:33,960 Speaker 2: can identify with that. And for this family in particular, 139 00:09:34,760 --> 00:09:40,240 Speaker 2: where you know this their child, their sister is gone 140 00:09:40,360 --> 00:09:44,720 Speaker 2: forever and ever. Amen, we make a lot in forensics 141 00:09:44,760 --> 00:09:49,360 Speaker 2: and for those that work as investigators, saying that that 142 00:09:49,440 --> 00:09:52,520 Speaker 2: we speak for those that can no longer speak for them. 143 00:09:52,720 --> 00:09:55,960 Speaker 2: We give those who no longer have a voice a 144 00:09:56,080 --> 00:10:01,080 Speaker 2: voice in the matter. Any attempt that I have ever 145 00:10:01,120 --> 00:10:07,760 Speaker 2: made is incredibly feeble compared to what we saw Gonzales 146 00:10:07,800 --> 00:10:10,640 Speaker 2: do at that luck turn that day, you know, when 147 00:10:10,679 --> 00:10:13,439 Speaker 2: she really went right to the heart of the matter 148 00:10:14,559 --> 00:10:18,319 Speaker 2: and described him about you know, who he was, what 149 00:10:18,400 --> 00:10:21,600 Speaker 2: he was, what he had done to their family, and 150 00:10:21,720 --> 00:10:26,440 Speaker 2: just ripping it to shreds. We you don't and I 151 00:10:26,440 --> 00:10:28,360 Speaker 2: would not want to know. I would not want to 152 00:10:28,400 --> 00:10:31,840 Speaker 2: know the quiet conversations that they had had amongst them 153 00:10:31,920 --> 00:10:35,080 Speaker 2: as a family, you know, when they sit around and 154 00:10:35,080 --> 00:10:36,560 Speaker 2: they you know, what in the world are we going 155 00:10:36,640 --> 00:10:38,679 Speaker 2: to do? And I think that it goes back to 156 00:10:38,720 --> 00:10:41,880 Speaker 2: the dad. He was like, well, I know what we're 157 00:10:42,080 --> 00:10:44,480 Speaker 2: not going to do. We're not going to sit here, 158 00:10:45,240 --> 00:10:49,120 Speaker 2: and we're not going to sit here, you know, and 159 00:10:49,240 --> 00:10:53,280 Speaker 2: issue forth lamentations and just you know, tear our clothing 160 00:10:53,320 --> 00:10:55,640 Speaker 2: and all that. We're going to get up and we're 161 00:10:55,640 --> 00:10:58,680 Speaker 2: going to sally forth and we're going to do what 162 00:10:58,760 --> 00:11:03,600 Speaker 2: we have to do in order to get peace in 163 00:11:03,360 --> 00:11:05,840 Speaker 2: the in the set of circumstances, because I think that 164 00:11:05,880 --> 00:11:08,000 Speaker 2: at the end of the day, they felt like they 165 00:11:08,040 --> 00:11:10,360 Speaker 2: owed it to this child that was gone and that 166 00:11:10,440 --> 00:11:11,440 Speaker 2: they were robbed up. 167 00:11:11,520 --> 00:11:13,520 Speaker 1: I think, and to the others. I think they felt 168 00:11:13,559 --> 00:11:17,160 Speaker 1: like there was such a void of what was being presented. 169 00:11:17,200 --> 00:11:19,920 Speaker 1: There was a lot of chatter going on about what 170 00:11:20,120 --> 00:11:24,760 Speaker 1: took place in that house, but there wasn't a lot 171 00:11:24,760 --> 00:11:28,559 Speaker 1: of information coming from the sources that need they needed 172 00:11:28,600 --> 00:11:30,520 Speaker 1: it from. But I didn't want to ask you about 173 00:11:30,520 --> 00:11:34,120 Speaker 1: this because when this case first broke, there was the 174 00:11:35,320 --> 00:11:39,040 Speaker 1: I don't want it. She wasn't the corner, but she 175 00:11:39,200 --> 00:11:45,200 Speaker 1: was the public, the elected official, right who said that. 176 00:11:45,320 --> 00:11:48,800 Speaker 2: No, No, she was a corner. She's the elected corner, 177 00:11:49,000 --> 00:11:51,439 Speaker 2: the corner, yeah, and also an attorney, right. 178 00:11:51,800 --> 00:11:54,040 Speaker 1: And yet she went in and said that they had 179 00:11:54,080 --> 00:11:57,200 Speaker 1: all been killed in their sleep. Now she walked the 180 00:11:57,280 --> 00:12:00,800 Speaker 1: crime scene and had the temerity to say they were 181 00:12:00,840 --> 00:12:03,400 Speaker 1: all killed in their sleep. And now what we know 182 00:12:04,040 --> 00:12:07,200 Speaker 1: of the crime scene, you know what took place in there, 183 00:12:07,520 --> 00:12:12,120 Speaker 1: that the families actually knew a lot more, you know, 184 00:12:12,240 --> 00:12:14,880 Speaker 1: than we were all being told. Not like anybody owes 185 00:12:14,960 --> 00:12:18,440 Speaker 1: us anything. I'm not suggesting that. It's just that what 186 00:12:18,520 --> 00:12:22,520 Speaker 1: that woman said, she should have just kept her mouth shut. 187 00:12:22,520 --> 00:12:24,240 Speaker 2: If she's going to say something, let me let me 188 00:12:24,240 --> 00:12:27,199 Speaker 2: take it one foot step further. If you like that one, 189 00:12:27,200 --> 00:12:30,320 Speaker 2: I got another one for you. If that's what she 190 00:12:30,440 --> 00:12:32,640 Speaker 2: said at that moment in time. And remember that was 191 00:12:32,760 --> 00:12:37,120 Speaker 2: just within I guess we could render it down to 192 00:12:37,480 --> 00:12:42,960 Speaker 2: within hours. They were certainly days of this horrific slaughter. 193 00:12:44,160 --> 00:12:46,040 Speaker 2: That was the first bit of information that had been 194 00:12:46,080 --> 00:12:49,880 Speaker 2: released to the public. Just imagine how insulting that is 195 00:12:49,880 --> 00:12:54,760 Speaker 2: to the family and families when they suddenly discovered, Dave, 196 00:12:55,120 --> 00:13:04,640 Speaker 2: that none of that, none of that was reality. And 197 00:13:04,679 --> 00:13:08,120 Speaker 2: because they have information that comes to them in these 198 00:13:08,160 --> 00:13:12,120 Speaker 2: private conversations that they have with folks, and suddenly all 199 00:13:12,160 --> 00:13:14,320 Speaker 2: that stuff that is said early on, because you know, 200 00:13:15,600 --> 00:13:18,240 Speaker 2: when you say that someone died in their sleep, that 201 00:13:20,679 --> 00:13:24,840 Speaker 2: implies a peaceful passing exactly. And I can tell you this, 202 00:13:24,840 --> 00:13:29,800 Speaker 2: this was anything but peaceful, and it was horrific, and 203 00:13:30,840 --> 00:13:35,600 Speaker 2: it the information that came out later, which we're going 204 00:13:35,679 --> 00:13:40,760 Speaker 2: to cover in just a moment or two, was anything 205 00:13:41,480 --> 00:13:46,040 Speaker 2: but placid. There was no solemnity in it. There was 206 00:13:46,120 --> 00:13:50,000 Speaker 2: no hope that they had quietly passed on in their sleep. 207 00:13:51,240 --> 00:13:54,320 Speaker 2: They went to a very very dark spot. And I 208 00:13:54,360 --> 00:14:00,200 Speaker 2: think therein lies some of the impetus that drove the 209 00:14:00,200 --> 00:14:03,600 Speaker 2: family in particular to get up there and address him 210 00:14:04,040 --> 00:14:25,000 Speaker 2: face to face, steering directly into the face of the devil. Well, 211 00:14:25,040 --> 00:14:32,520 Speaker 2: Dave shifting, shifting our focus back across the country geographically, 212 00:14:32,840 --> 00:14:36,480 Speaker 2: but yet still dealing with a family, a family that 213 00:14:36,480 --> 00:14:44,000 Speaker 2: that has mourned for for several years now. Our number 214 00:14:44,040 --> 00:14:48,560 Speaker 2: three entry into the top ten most downloaded episodes of 215 00:14:48,560 --> 00:14:52,680 Speaker 2: body Bags comes back to a case that you and 216 00:14:52,720 --> 00:14:56,880 Speaker 2: I have covered since again since it's its occurrence, and 217 00:14:56,920 --> 00:15:01,400 Speaker 2: that's the Gabby Petito case. The third episode or the 218 00:15:01,560 --> 00:15:05,600 Speaker 2: third most downloaded episode of body Bags for twenty twenty 219 00:15:05,600 --> 00:15:11,560 Speaker 2: five was entitled Shocking Discovery, Forensic Anthropology and the Suicide 220 00:15:11,960 --> 00:15:18,640 Speaker 2: of Gabby Patito's killer. I think that many people have 221 00:15:18,760 --> 00:15:21,200 Speaker 2: had questions for a protracted period of time, and I 222 00:15:21,280 --> 00:15:23,920 Speaker 2: don't I don't know if you recall this, this this 223 00:15:24,520 --> 00:15:31,960 Speaker 2: previous crime con that we attended. It was myself and Cheryl, 224 00:15:33,400 --> 00:15:38,160 Speaker 2: Cheryl McCullum mack as people know her, and Nancy up 225 00:15:38,200 --> 00:15:43,560 Speaker 2: on stage was actually uh Gabby's mom and her stepfather, 226 00:15:45,600 --> 00:15:51,320 Speaker 2: and we talked about they talked about the case, and 227 00:15:51,440 --> 00:15:55,160 Speaker 2: of course the at that session, most of the time 228 00:15:55,280 --> 00:15:59,960 Speaker 2: was spent on trying to, you know, talk about gab 229 00:16:00,320 --> 00:16:03,160 Speaker 2: life and the fund that they had set up. But 230 00:16:03,680 --> 00:16:08,640 Speaker 2: we got some insights I think, into the world that 231 00:16:09,000 --> 00:16:14,440 Speaker 2: she inhabited along with laundry, and also some insights I 232 00:16:14,480 --> 00:16:20,880 Speaker 2: think that go to maybe some suspicions about the skeletal 233 00:16:20,920 --> 00:16:23,880 Speaker 2: remains of ron laundry that were found down there in 234 00:16:23,920 --> 00:16:24,640 Speaker 2: that swam. 235 00:16:24,520 --> 00:16:27,920 Speaker 1: Dave, which was why we did the episode because there 236 00:16:28,120 --> 00:16:32,160 Speaker 1: was a lot of there was a lot wrong with 237 00:16:32,320 --> 00:16:36,480 Speaker 1: this case, and I think a lot of us who 238 00:16:36,560 --> 00:16:39,400 Speaker 1: follow crime stories and things like that looked at him. 239 00:16:39,400 --> 00:16:43,800 Speaker 1: Wait a minute, man, this guy, Brian Laundry goes with 240 00:16:43,920 --> 00:16:47,920 Speaker 1: his fiance Gabby Petito, cross country in a van she 241 00:16:48,040 --> 00:16:52,520 Speaker 1: bought and paid for. They're traveling, and he ends up 242 00:16:52,560 --> 00:17:00,600 Speaker 1: coming home to Florida alone without Gabby. Immediately, immediately I 243 00:17:00,640 --> 00:17:03,960 Speaker 1: want police out there getting him, you know, bright lights 244 00:17:04,000 --> 00:17:06,840 Speaker 1: and water dripping, whatever it takes. Where is Gabby? You 245 00:17:06,840 --> 00:17:10,720 Speaker 1: know that's her car and you're here, She's not. Where 246 00:17:10,840 --> 00:17:13,560 Speaker 1: is she? And why do you know what happened? I 247 00:17:13,600 --> 00:17:16,880 Speaker 1: and a lot of us don't understand. You know, why 248 00:17:16,920 --> 00:17:19,199 Speaker 1: can't they get this info? It seems so direct, And 249 00:17:19,240 --> 00:17:22,080 Speaker 1: I remember at the time going this seems so obvious. 250 00:17:22,880 --> 00:17:26,960 Speaker 1: Why are we not getting answers here from the again 251 00:17:27,040 --> 00:17:29,160 Speaker 1: speaking for the family, Why are they not being told 252 00:17:29,160 --> 00:17:29,760 Speaker 1: what's going on? 253 00:17:29,920 --> 00:17:30,119 Speaker 2: You know? 254 00:17:30,200 --> 00:17:34,200 Speaker 1: And how can Brian Laundry's family be covering for him? 255 00:17:34,600 --> 00:17:37,240 Speaker 1: You know, what's going on here? How do you do 256 00:17:37,280 --> 00:17:41,199 Speaker 1: this to another human being? And of course, during the 257 00:17:41,280 --> 00:17:43,760 Speaker 1: coverage of what took place, while we were you know, 258 00:17:44,240 --> 00:17:47,960 Speaker 1: looking for Gabby and you know, Brian Laundry takes off. 259 00:17:47,960 --> 00:17:50,320 Speaker 1: You know, there are people standing outside their house, you 260 00:17:50,320 --> 00:17:54,000 Speaker 1: know if you remember yelling, you know, and where's Gabby? 261 00:17:54,119 --> 00:17:58,160 Speaker 1: And it's like, how can you people not even what's 262 00:17:58,200 --> 00:18:00,600 Speaker 1: wrong with you that you can't stand up here and say, 263 00:18:01,280 --> 00:18:04,440 Speaker 1: we don't know, I mean, give us some answer here man. 264 00:18:04,560 --> 00:18:06,879 Speaker 1: That doesn't add up, you know, And I think that 265 00:18:07,040 --> 00:18:09,879 Speaker 1: was the frustrating part of that entire case, because it 266 00:18:09,920 --> 00:18:14,760 Speaker 1: wasn't just Brian Laundry and Gabby Batido. It was their family, 267 00:18:15,160 --> 00:18:18,160 Speaker 1: you know, the family of Gabby wondering, well, what happened 268 00:18:18,200 --> 00:18:20,800 Speaker 1: to our daughter? And then you've got Brian Laundry's family 269 00:18:21,040 --> 00:18:24,600 Speaker 1: covering for him, knowing full well something bad has happened. 270 00:18:25,600 --> 00:18:30,440 Speaker 2: Yeah, something obviously you know that that was the case. 271 00:18:30,480 --> 00:18:34,000 Speaker 2: You know, where was Gabby? But all along, you know, 272 00:18:34,080 --> 00:18:37,120 Speaker 2: once Gabby has found I've got a great little insight 273 00:18:37,160 --> 00:18:39,720 Speaker 2: into this per that conversation we had up on stage. 274 00:18:40,160 --> 00:18:43,359 Speaker 2: I was fascinated by this. But and that was the 275 00:18:43,440 --> 00:18:48,760 Speaker 2: route obviously of this episode all along. You know, after 276 00:18:48,840 --> 00:18:54,640 Speaker 2: Gabby is found out there in Wyoming, it turns out 277 00:18:54,720 --> 00:19:01,800 Speaker 2: that you know, Laundry's remains were uh, you know, we're 278 00:19:02,200 --> 00:19:06,359 Speaker 2: within a cannon shot of of you know, his parents domicile, 279 00:19:07,720 --> 00:19:14,040 Speaker 2: also his domicile, you know, living with mom and dad 280 00:19:14,480 --> 00:19:19,199 Speaker 2: and in a very specific area that is. And I 281 00:19:19,280 --> 00:19:21,639 Speaker 2: made comment about it several times about how harsh this 282 00:19:21,760 --> 00:19:24,840 Speaker 2: environment is, how hard it is on human remains once 283 00:19:24,880 --> 00:19:28,360 Speaker 2: you got down Florida. Right, yeah, they're they're in Florida. 284 00:19:28,920 --> 00:19:30,840 Speaker 1: He just set that up, you know. He he went 285 00:19:30,840 --> 00:19:34,800 Speaker 1: into this area where his family had regularly camped and 286 00:19:34,840 --> 00:19:39,240 Speaker 1: he kind of hit himself out there when without anybody knowing, right, 287 00:19:39,320 --> 00:19:41,359 Speaker 1: I mean, we didn't know where Brian Laundry was. His 288 00:19:41,440 --> 00:19:43,560 Speaker 1: parents weren't talking in the area. 289 00:19:43,280 --> 00:19:48,080 Speaker 2: And they weren't talking. But you know, when when it 290 00:19:48,119 --> 00:19:55,040 Speaker 2: all came down to brass tacks, interestingly enough, the family, 291 00:19:55,200 --> 00:19:58,960 Speaker 2: his family got involved and lo and behold, they went 292 00:19:59,040 --> 00:20:00,200 Speaker 2: right to where the body was. 293 00:20:00,480 --> 00:20:01,240 Speaker 1: Isn't that crazy? 294 00:20:01,640 --> 00:20:06,160 Speaker 2: Yeah? It really is crazy. And uh, just this little 295 00:20:06,240 --> 00:20:10,760 Speaker 2: anecdote I think here when we were on stage with 296 00:20:10,760 --> 00:20:19,199 Speaker 2: with with Gabby's family, her stepdad said, so, actually the 297 00:20:19,240 --> 00:20:22,600 Speaker 2: mother said something very interesting, Dave. I believe in angels, 298 00:20:22,800 --> 00:20:27,320 Speaker 2: I truly do, and and I believe that they, uh, 299 00:20:27,480 --> 00:20:33,280 Speaker 2: they watch over us. And she had made reference to this. 300 00:20:34,600 --> 00:20:37,120 Speaker 2: Do you know that when Gabby's remains were found in 301 00:20:37,160 --> 00:20:40,760 Speaker 2: this area out in Wyoming. You think about scavengers, You 302 00:20:40,800 --> 00:20:43,960 Speaker 2: think about how you know if a body was there 303 00:20:44,720 --> 00:20:48,960 Speaker 2: that it wouldn't it would not be intact. And interestingly enough, 304 00:20:50,720 --> 00:20:55,040 Speaker 2: when they found Gabby's remains and they were you know, 305 00:20:55,200 --> 00:21:00,560 Speaker 2: through the natural course of biology, they're they're decomposing, okay, 306 00:21:00,600 --> 00:21:08,240 Speaker 2: But Dave, her body was intact. When you get to 307 00:21:08,280 --> 00:21:10,680 Speaker 2: look at brian laundry, and this was kind of one 308 00:21:10,680 --> 00:21:14,439 Speaker 2: of the main thrust of this episode, He's in that 309 00:21:14,480 --> 00:21:19,000 Speaker 2: swampy area. His remains are scattered, you know there there's 310 00:21:19,040 --> 00:21:23,280 Speaker 2: been feasting going on, you know, on his remains, and 311 00:21:23,560 --> 00:21:26,359 Speaker 2: you take a look this kind of dichotomy, you know, 312 00:21:26,440 --> 00:21:30,280 Speaker 2: between the two, and you think about and look, none 313 00:21:30,280 --> 00:21:32,160 Speaker 2: of us are perfect, right. I don't know what kind 314 00:21:32,200 --> 00:21:35,240 Speaker 2: of life you know, Gabby lead or you know, or Laundry. 315 00:21:36,240 --> 00:21:39,359 Speaker 2: I can only hazard guess. But you know, you see 316 00:21:39,480 --> 00:21:43,720 Speaker 2: that even in death, you know, in this particular case 317 00:21:43,720 --> 00:21:49,040 Speaker 2: at least, that her body, though decomposing, was almost pristine. 318 00:21:49,280 --> 00:21:52,120 Speaker 2: His is scattered in this horrible environment where you've got 319 00:21:52,160 --> 00:21:56,200 Speaker 2: rising water, you've got all manner of critters that inhabit 320 00:21:56,280 --> 00:21:58,000 Speaker 2: this area. I have had all kinds of people that 321 00:21:58,040 --> 00:22:01,000 Speaker 2: have reached out to me over the course of the years. 322 00:22:01,080 --> 00:22:04,679 Speaker 2: You know, what could have you know, happened to his body. 323 00:22:04,680 --> 00:22:07,080 Speaker 2: I remember for a while people were saying, well, you know, 324 00:22:07,720 --> 00:22:11,960 Speaker 2: an alligator got him, you know, or an alligator you know, 325 00:22:12,600 --> 00:22:14,520 Speaker 2: haul off part of his body, and that that was 326 00:22:14,760 --> 00:22:17,159 Speaker 2: That was not that was inaccurate. You know, that's not 327 00:22:17,200 --> 00:22:19,160 Speaker 2: what happened. That's not how alligators work. 328 00:22:21,200 --> 00:22:23,440 Speaker 1: Isn't it funny how when somebody goes into this into 329 00:22:23,480 --> 00:22:26,719 Speaker 1: Florida on the in there's marshy water, it's always gators 330 00:22:26,920 --> 00:22:28,800 Speaker 1: and it never turns out to be that way. It's 331 00:22:28,840 --> 00:22:31,640 Speaker 1: never there. But there's blame for everything. 332 00:22:31,960 --> 00:22:36,000 Speaker 2: The gators are, well, they're the apex. They're the apex predator, 333 00:22:36,160 --> 00:22:38,920 Speaker 2: you know in in North America. I mean, they truly are. 334 00:22:40,080 --> 00:22:43,280 Speaker 2: But what was fascinating about this case is that Brian 335 00:22:43,400 --> 00:22:49,280 Speaker 2: laundry when the assessment was done on his body by 336 00:22:49,320 --> 00:22:52,000 Speaker 2: the forensic anthropologists. And this is a very difficult case 337 00:22:52,040 --> 00:22:58,120 Speaker 2: to work uh forensically, to try to gather as much 338 00:22:58,119 --> 00:23:02,760 Speaker 2: of the remains that are left the bony remains. When 339 00:23:02,800 --> 00:23:08,080 Speaker 2: they did find his skull. We do know that he 340 00:23:08,240 --> 00:23:11,720 Speaker 2: was as well documented, he's right handed, well, he's got 341 00:23:11,720 --> 00:23:16,879 Speaker 2: this kind of weird, atypical gunshot wound where the entrance 342 00:23:17,280 --> 00:23:24,520 Speaker 2: per the forensic anthropologist has noted, and it's it's in 343 00:23:24,600 --> 00:23:28,080 Speaker 2: the left aspect of his head, and it's up in 344 00:23:28,160 --> 00:23:32,160 Speaker 2: a in kind of an odd location almost the it's 345 00:23:32,200 --> 00:23:36,520 Speaker 2: not occipital, which is posterior, but it's up in the 346 00:23:36,600 --> 00:23:42,360 Speaker 2: parietal area the well more to the side and up. 347 00:23:42,480 --> 00:23:44,800 Speaker 2: All right, that's all I'll say at this point. And 348 00:23:44,840 --> 00:23:48,120 Speaker 2: I think that Gabby's stepfather has his own thoughts about 349 00:23:48,160 --> 00:23:53,080 Speaker 2: this and about what what could have led to this. 350 00:23:54,160 --> 00:23:58,560 Speaker 2: I found them very interesting, I'll say that much. The 351 00:23:58,640 --> 00:24:03,159 Speaker 2: fact that that he is deceased out there in this 352 00:24:03,320 --> 00:24:08,040 Speaker 2: location his you know, his body was found rather quickly 353 00:24:09,240 --> 00:24:12,919 Speaker 2: after his family got involved in the search. You know, 354 00:24:13,000 --> 00:24:17,639 Speaker 2: for the first time they're actually doing something, and you know, 355 00:24:18,080 --> 00:24:24,120 Speaker 2: lo and behold, there he was this I know, though, Gabby, 356 00:24:25,240 --> 00:24:28,480 Speaker 2: unlike many of the victims that we cover on this show, 357 00:24:30,160 --> 00:24:32,440 Speaker 2: we always hear a lot about perpetrators, don't we, Dave. 358 00:24:32,960 --> 00:24:38,080 Speaker 2: We always hear their names, and they linger, they linger 359 00:24:38,160 --> 00:24:40,640 Speaker 2: forever and ever. But in the case of Gabby Petito, 360 00:24:42,080 --> 00:24:59,200 Speaker 2: her case and her name will never be forgotten. Well, 361 00:24:59,200 --> 00:25:02,960 Speaker 2: here we go, Dave, We're bringing it home. We've got 362 00:25:03,000 --> 00:25:09,439 Speaker 2: two episodes left of the most downloaded episodes of twenty 363 00:25:09,520 --> 00:25:15,200 Speaker 2: twenty five for body Bags. And in this particular case, 364 00:25:16,960 --> 00:25:23,400 Speaker 2: with these two episodes, they all focus on well, let's see, 365 00:25:23,400 --> 00:25:26,840 Speaker 2: how can I let's say this. They all focus on 366 00:25:27,480 --> 00:25:32,359 Speaker 2: an event, but that event actually involves four homicides. And 367 00:25:32,400 --> 00:25:34,160 Speaker 2: you know where I'm going with this day. We're going 368 00:25:34,800 --> 00:25:42,600 Speaker 2: back to Moscow, Idaho, and to the slaughter of these 369 00:25:42,640 --> 00:25:49,040 Speaker 2: four university students. And for us at number two the 370 00:25:49,080 --> 00:25:54,520 Speaker 2: most downloaded, the second most downloaded is entitled Explosive Proof. 371 00:25:54,920 --> 00:26:00,760 Speaker 2: Maddie and Kaylee fought back against a cowardly attack, and Dave, 372 00:26:00,840 --> 00:26:03,000 Speaker 2: I gotta I gotta lay it out for you. You 373 00:26:03,040 --> 00:26:06,160 Speaker 2: and I have talked about this quite a bit off air, 374 00:26:06,760 --> 00:26:08,520 Speaker 2: and we talked about in a lot of people have, 375 00:26:08,600 --> 00:26:10,480 Speaker 2: I know, but for you and I, for the purposes 376 00:26:10,480 --> 00:26:13,320 Speaker 2: of our show, we've talked about this a lot relative 377 00:26:13,400 --> 00:26:16,320 Speaker 2: to the dynamics of what went on in that in 378 00:26:16,320 --> 00:26:19,000 Speaker 2: that upstairs bedroom, because a lot of people thought that 379 00:26:19,040 --> 00:26:20,840 Speaker 2: it began up there. 380 00:26:21,359 --> 00:26:26,680 Speaker 1: Yeah it we I say we, and I'm talking about 381 00:26:26,760 --> 00:26:32,520 Speaker 1: collectively those who followed this case. I found myself reaching 382 00:26:32,560 --> 00:26:38,240 Speaker 1: out and looking in a number of sources. I wouldn't 383 00:26:38,280 --> 00:26:41,240 Speaker 1: have normally looked at Joe to figure out what had 384 00:26:41,280 --> 00:26:46,480 Speaker 1: transpired because nothing made sense. You know, the problem with 385 00:26:47,160 --> 00:26:51,880 Speaker 1: the entire case was that what we were told from 386 00:26:51,960 --> 00:26:54,439 Speaker 1: the beginning that they were killed in their sleep, and 387 00:26:54,480 --> 00:26:56,840 Speaker 1: then what came out at the end. You know, we 388 00:26:56,840 --> 00:26:59,880 Speaker 1: were piecing together along the way. If you're a member, 389 00:27:00,080 --> 00:27:04,479 Speaker 1: we covered this in the dateline leaks that episode where 390 00:27:04,600 --> 00:27:06,679 Speaker 1: a lot of information came out that some of it 391 00:27:06,720 --> 00:27:10,240 Speaker 1: was true, some of it wasn't. But what we came 392 00:27:10,320 --> 00:27:13,720 Speaker 1: up with when everything was said and done was that 393 00:27:15,320 --> 00:27:19,359 Speaker 1: there was a fight and Maddie and Kaylee fought back. 394 00:27:19,920 --> 00:27:25,679 Speaker 1: And I don't know, I mean this from the I 395 00:27:25,720 --> 00:27:29,440 Speaker 1: don't know how we could get the story that they 396 00:27:29,480 --> 00:27:33,199 Speaker 1: died in their sleep. You know, to this what we 397 00:27:33,359 --> 00:27:36,640 Speaker 1: know took place that really bothers me. Maybe it shouldn't, 398 00:27:36,720 --> 00:27:40,000 Speaker 1: but it really does bother me. But based on the 399 00:27:40,000 --> 00:27:44,000 Speaker 1: information that we found out from the police reports, the 400 00:27:44,080 --> 00:27:53,960 Speaker 1: coroner's findings indicated that both Maddie and Kaylee had injuries 401 00:27:54,000 --> 00:27:59,359 Speaker 1: consistent with a struggle. Now we know that Coburger snuck 402 00:27:59,400 --> 00:28:03,600 Speaker 1: into the house, and we know that his first attack 403 00:28:03,880 --> 00:28:08,240 Speaker 1: was on Maddie and Kaylee. Based on the timeline that 404 00:28:08,280 --> 00:28:11,439 Speaker 1: we've been given Joe, we know that he arrives and 405 00:28:11,480 --> 00:28:14,439 Speaker 1: goes up the stairs shortly after four o'clock. We know 406 00:28:15,119 --> 00:28:19,920 Speaker 1: that Xana Cronodle has just received her door dash from 407 00:28:20,080 --> 00:28:24,640 Speaker 1: Jack in the Box and so she's awake in her room, 408 00:28:25,320 --> 00:28:28,760 Speaker 1: probably with Ethan, and Coburger goes past that room straight 409 00:28:28,840 --> 00:28:32,600 Speaker 1: up the stairs into Mattie in Kaylee's room. We know 410 00:28:32,760 --> 00:28:35,680 Speaker 1: that there was some noise going on that was heard 411 00:28:36,119 --> 00:28:40,680 Speaker 1: because we had the one of the roommates saying that 412 00:28:40,720 --> 00:28:42,880 Speaker 1: she thought Mattie was playing with her dog. 413 00:28:43,120 --> 00:28:44,840 Speaker 2: Yep, that noise. 414 00:28:46,000 --> 00:28:51,200 Speaker 1: The physical evidence shows that Madison had wounds on her 415 00:28:51,240 --> 00:28:57,680 Speaker 1: forearms and hands. Kaylee had wounds around her mouth. Her 416 00:28:57,720 --> 00:29:04,760 Speaker 1: father indicated someone and had pressed in to keep her quiet. 417 00:29:05,760 --> 00:29:08,760 Speaker 1: She had more than twenty stab wounds. We know that 418 00:29:09,080 --> 00:29:15,240 Speaker 1: both girls were beaten. Now, Joe, based on the room 419 00:29:15,360 --> 00:29:20,440 Speaker 1: and where the girls were found, they put up a 420 00:29:20,520 --> 00:29:24,040 Speaker 1: heck of a fight, and as we mentioned at the 421 00:29:24,080 --> 00:29:28,800 Speaker 1: beginning of the show, Olivia Gonzavz talking about Coberger's plan 422 00:29:29,160 --> 00:29:31,080 Speaker 1: and how he spent all this time planning and it 423 00:29:31,120 --> 00:29:35,080 Speaker 1: came down to her sister you know, Kaylee and that sheath, 424 00:29:35,160 --> 00:29:39,520 Speaker 1: that knife sheath, because those were the two things that 425 00:29:39,640 --> 00:29:45,400 Speaker 1: brought about evidence that put him in that room. But Joe, 426 00:29:45,440 --> 00:29:49,560 Speaker 1: when we were covering this story, this was explosive new information, 427 00:29:49,640 --> 00:29:52,960 Speaker 1: which is why these are the two most downloaded episodes 428 00:29:53,000 --> 00:29:53,440 Speaker 1: of the year. 429 00:29:53,880 --> 00:29:55,720 Speaker 2: Yeah, I'd agree with you. Yeah, tell her a. 430 00:29:55,720 --> 00:29:58,520 Speaker 1: Little bit about that attack though, Coburger. 431 00:29:58,920 --> 00:30:02,280 Speaker 2: Yeah, it really paints paints a picture, a horrific picture. 432 00:30:02,360 --> 00:30:05,200 Speaker 2: We know that. I think one of the watchwords here 433 00:30:05,280 --> 00:30:08,000 Speaker 2: is containment. And when I say that, I'm talking about 434 00:30:08,040 --> 00:30:12,560 Speaker 2: the attack itself. He's essentially got both of these young 435 00:30:12,600 --> 00:30:18,080 Speaker 2: women penned in. They're not going anywhere because he's in 436 00:30:18,160 --> 00:30:22,640 Speaker 2: between them and a location where they could have exited, 437 00:30:22,680 --> 00:30:25,760 Speaker 2: the single door that leads into this bedroom. And then 438 00:30:25,800 --> 00:30:30,520 Speaker 2: you've got these objects that are within the room. Most 439 00:30:33,120 --> 00:30:38,520 Speaker 2: I think most significant is this bed, you know, because 440 00:30:38,560 --> 00:30:41,920 Speaker 2: one of the things that has been talked about is that, 441 00:30:42,200 --> 00:30:45,600 Speaker 2: you know, one of these young women had you know, 442 00:30:45,680 --> 00:30:48,960 Speaker 2: she's already graduated. Essentially, she's moved out, she's come back 443 00:30:48,960 --> 00:30:52,800 Speaker 2: to see her friend and they are co sleeping, you know, 444 00:30:52,920 --> 00:30:54,720 Speaker 2: in this area, which is something that they had done 445 00:30:54,760 --> 00:30:59,760 Speaker 2: since they were little bitty things. Yeah, you know, and 446 00:30:59,760 --> 00:31:04,920 Speaker 2: and when he sets upon them, where are they're going 447 00:31:05,000 --> 00:31:10,400 Speaker 2: to go? But again going back, and this is what 448 00:31:10,560 --> 00:31:12,880 Speaker 2: really lit a fire with me. You had mentioned the 449 00:31:12,960 --> 00:31:17,960 Speaker 2: corner early on, because I see that corner. You don't 450 00:31:17,960 --> 00:31:24,120 Speaker 2: hear a lot in the news about corners, okay, and 451 00:31:24,440 --> 00:31:29,680 Speaker 2: because I have a special place in my life and 452 00:31:29,760 --> 00:31:32,280 Speaker 2: in what I have done in my life with the 453 00:31:32,320 --> 00:31:36,800 Speaker 2: training of corners, the educational corners, that person suddenly is 454 00:31:36,840 --> 00:31:42,080 Speaker 2: thrust into the spotlight, and they're reflective of all corners, okay, 455 00:31:42,120 --> 00:31:44,200 Speaker 2: whether you like it or not. And I know a 456 00:31:44,200 --> 00:31:46,080 Speaker 2: lot of people would say, well, that doesn't mean that 457 00:31:46,160 --> 00:31:49,640 Speaker 2: all corner, No, it doesn't. However, when you're not talked 458 00:31:49,640 --> 00:31:51,680 Speaker 2: about a lot in the news and suddenly you're thrust 459 00:31:51,760 --> 00:31:55,080 Speaker 2: into the spotlight. So that's what lit the little flame 460 00:31:55,120 --> 00:31:58,000 Speaker 2: in me, I think early on. And that you know, 461 00:31:58,040 --> 00:32:03,040 Speaker 2: as I stated earlier, that does comments rose shortly after 462 00:32:03,280 --> 00:32:07,680 Speaker 2: these events. So when we begin to learn about what 463 00:32:07,840 --> 00:32:12,479 Speaker 2: happened in that bedroom, it goes to invalidate all of 464 00:32:12,520 --> 00:32:16,479 Speaker 2: those things, those notions that were placed out there. And 465 00:32:16,520 --> 00:32:21,000 Speaker 2: it really I'm supposed to be as objective as possible. However, 466 00:32:21,280 --> 00:32:23,800 Speaker 2: you know, you kind of feel, you know, my objectivity 467 00:32:23,920 --> 00:32:26,560 Speaker 2: kind of fades into the background. You know, when you 468 00:32:27,000 --> 00:32:29,920 Speaker 2: understand that there's not you know, you begin to question 469 00:32:29,960 --> 00:32:31,959 Speaker 2: and you know, what kind of scientific assessment had been 470 00:32:32,000 --> 00:32:34,520 Speaker 2: done at that point? Even from the perspective, you know, 471 00:32:34,560 --> 00:32:40,320 Speaker 2: it begins, It begins for me to talk about, well, 472 00:32:40,400 --> 00:32:42,600 Speaker 2: how were the bodies even assessed? Because you know what 473 00:32:42,680 --> 00:32:44,600 Speaker 2: one of the big things turned out and you mentioned 474 00:32:44,600 --> 00:32:47,520 Speaker 2: this just a moment ago, Dave about the deliveries and 475 00:32:47,720 --> 00:32:52,640 Speaker 2: when he came into the room, is the assessment of time? Right, Well, 476 00:32:53,240 --> 00:32:56,600 Speaker 2: you're if you're trying to tell us that they were asleep, 477 00:32:57,400 --> 00:33:00,800 Speaker 2: that they died in their sleep, does what kind of 478 00:33:00,840 --> 00:33:03,960 Speaker 2: assessment did you actually do on the bodies as far 479 00:33:04,000 --> 00:33:06,920 Speaker 2: as post mortem interval and all those things, because as 480 00:33:06,960 --> 00:33:12,560 Speaker 2: it turned out, things didn't go to trial and if 481 00:33:12,600 --> 00:33:15,600 Speaker 2: you needed that critical bit of information, because we're all 482 00:33:15,640 --> 00:33:19,000 Speaker 2: about timelines, aren't we. It's not just the injuries themselves. 483 00:33:20,400 --> 00:33:25,680 Speaker 2: You know that that goes into question your your I 484 00:33:25,680 --> 00:33:31,640 Speaker 2: don't know your compli pract right, and so you're and 485 00:33:32,000 --> 00:33:34,400 Speaker 2: then you contect you you try to contextualize the injuries 486 00:33:34,440 --> 00:33:38,600 Speaker 2: and as we found out with Kaylee, I'm not saying 487 00:33:38,640 --> 00:33:43,120 Speaker 2: that that Maddie's were were not brutal. It truly was. 488 00:33:43,880 --> 00:33:46,040 Speaker 2: She was attacked over and over again, over again with 489 00:33:46,080 --> 00:33:49,479 Speaker 2: a sharp instrument. But Kaylee, there's so much anger involved 490 00:33:49,480 --> 00:33:53,480 Speaker 2: in this day. And I'm talking about fractured facial facial structures, 491 00:33:55,440 --> 00:33:58,800 Speaker 2: you know, the driving of its blade, you know, into 492 00:33:58,840 --> 00:34:02,479 Speaker 2: her face. Uh. And we talked about the blunt force trauma. 493 00:34:02,520 --> 00:34:05,360 Speaker 2: You had mentioned it earlier where and there. Do you 494 00:34:05,400 --> 00:34:08,280 Speaker 2: remember there were these weird patterns that they talked about, 495 00:34:08,280 --> 00:34:13,920 Speaker 2: these kind of linear circum circum not circumventual, but but 496 00:34:15,640 --> 00:34:18,400 Speaker 2: there were these kind of weird looking patterns. And I 497 00:34:18,760 --> 00:34:21,040 Speaker 2: felt like that those patterns matched up with the handle 498 00:34:21,080 --> 00:34:24,319 Speaker 2: on k bar, you know, because they're grooved. Uh. And 499 00:34:24,440 --> 00:34:28,759 Speaker 2: also I remember talking about how that knife, if you 500 00:34:28,880 --> 00:34:31,560 Speaker 2: look at it, the knife is a military knife, and 501 00:34:31,600 --> 00:34:34,160 Speaker 2: so it's not just essentially used. I think people think 502 00:34:34,200 --> 00:34:37,640 Speaker 2: military knife that it's used as as a means to 503 00:34:37,800 --> 00:34:40,440 Speaker 2: attack another person. It's not, because when you're in the military, 504 00:34:40,480 --> 00:34:44,560 Speaker 2: you need something a utility knife that serves a multiple 505 00:34:45,360 --> 00:34:50,239 Speaker 2: a multiplicity of purpose. Uh. If you flip that k 506 00:34:50,440 --> 00:34:54,840 Speaker 2: bar over upside down so that it's inverted to handle itself, 507 00:34:54,920 --> 00:34:56,960 Speaker 2: the end of the handle. The butt of it looks 508 00:34:56,960 --> 00:35:01,160 Speaker 2: like a hammer head. I think it's even protagonal or 509 00:35:01,200 --> 00:35:04,600 Speaker 2: pentagonal in shape. It's got edges on it, so you 510 00:35:04,640 --> 00:35:07,239 Speaker 2: can use it like in the field if you want 511 00:35:07,320 --> 00:35:09,880 Speaker 2: to reseal a box or you're trying to nail something up, 512 00:35:09,920 --> 00:35:12,080 Speaker 2: you could flip that knife over and use it as 513 00:35:12,080 --> 00:35:15,960 Speaker 2: a hammer. That's that's one of the things that they're 514 00:35:16,000 --> 00:35:19,440 Speaker 2: seeing here, you know, with Kaylee, and they're contained in 515 00:35:19,480 --> 00:35:24,759 Speaker 2: this area. But she did in fact fight back. We 516 00:35:24,880 --> 00:35:29,440 Speaker 2: know that she did. We've got a combination of DNA 517 00:35:29,560 --> 00:35:32,600 Speaker 2: that's found beneath her fingernails. You know, at the scene. 518 00:35:32,920 --> 00:35:36,680 Speaker 2: There's contact that's going on. So no, in answer to 519 00:35:36,760 --> 00:35:43,120 Speaker 2: the big question here, they did not die in their sleep, Dave. 520 00:35:43,320 --> 00:35:45,839 Speaker 2: That's just not that's not a reality. It's not a 521 00:35:45,840 --> 00:35:46,440 Speaker 2: real thing. 522 00:35:46,960 --> 00:35:50,200 Speaker 1: Well, the one thing we did find out beyond okay, upstairs, 523 00:35:50,200 --> 00:35:54,640 Speaker 1: we understand that that was in all probability the first attack, 524 00:35:54,800 --> 00:35:57,040 Speaker 1: because it's the only one that actually makes sense when 525 00:35:57,040 --> 00:36:00,560 Speaker 1: you look at what transpired. So COBT goes up the 526 00:36:00,600 --> 00:36:06,560 Speaker 1: stairs attacks now based on other physical evidence and audio evidence, 527 00:36:07,960 --> 00:36:13,080 Speaker 1: kay Legan's Xanda Kernodle, here's something going on upstairs and 528 00:36:13,200 --> 00:36:17,640 Speaker 1: goes up the stairs to check. Now, this is the 529 00:36:17,760 --> 00:36:21,239 Speaker 1: Dave mac theory of what took place. Because they never 530 00:36:21,320 --> 00:36:23,719 Speaker 1: actually said this out loud. There have been a lot 531 00:36:23,760 --> 00:36:27,000 Speaker 1: of comments about what possibly happened, but based on everything 532 00:36:27,040 --> 00:36:30,200 Speaker 1: we looked at, it sounded to me that Xana, who 533 00:36:30,320 --> 00:36:32,840 Speaker 1: is that got her food from Jack in the Box 534 00:36:32,880 --> 00:36:35,960 Speaker 1: and sitting there eating Ethan, is crashed out in the 535 00:36:35,960 --> 00:36:39,000 Speaker 1: bed sleep and she hears something going on. It sounds 536 00:36:39,040 --> 00:36:42,200 Speaker 1: more than just playing around, and it sounds you know, 537 00:36:42,239 --> 00:36:44,520 Speaker 1: you're gonna hear a struggle. That sounds a lot different 538 00:36:44,520 --> 00:36:46,839 Speaker 1: than anything else you've ever heard before, so you're gonna 539 00:36:46,840 --> 00:36:49,440 Speaker 1: go check it out. And it sounded to me that 540 00:36:49,600 --> 00:36:53,440 Speaker 1: Xana went up the stairs to see what was going on. 541 00:36:54,360 --> 00:36:58,760 Speaker 1: And I think it was Xana startling Coberg that caused 542 00:36:58,840 --> 00:37:02,200 Speaker 1: him to leave that knife shep because he wasn't thinking 543 00:37:02,320 --> 00:37:04,560 Speaker 1: at that point. It was paniced. He thought he was 544 00:37:04,560 --> 00:37:08,520 Speaker 1: getting away with killing these girls and private nobody's going 545 00:37:08,600 --> 00:37:09,240 Speaker 1: to catch him. 546 00:37:09,600 --> 00:37:13,160 Speaker 2: Yeah, and that's I think that you're spot on there. 547 00:37:13,400 --> 00:37:16,479 Speaker 2: And of course that brings us to the number one 548 00:37:17,200 --> 00:37:20,719 Speaker 2: most downloaded episode of Bodybacks for twenty twenty five, and 549 00:37:20,800 --> 00:37:26,160 Speaker 2: this episode entitled Shocking Truth Xanna caught BK and fought 550 00:37:26,160 --> 00:37:29,680 Speaker 2: the devil, and boy did she ever. You know, how 551 00:37:29,680 --> 00:37:32,040 Speaker 2: many times do you think Dave, over the course of 552 00:37:32,080 --> 00:37:38,160 Speaker 2: her living in this space with her friends upstairs, how 553 00:37:38,200 --> 00:37:41,279 Speaker 2: many times do you think that maybe late nights she 554 00:37:41,560 --> 00:37:44,920 Speaker 2: had egressed up that staircase just to go have a chat, yep, 555 00:37:45,160 --> 00:37:46,719 Speaker 2: just to talk about what your day was like, or 556 00:37:46,719 --> 00:37:49,239 Speaker 2: maybe share food. Hey, the deliveries here, I'll just bring 557 00:37:49,280 --> 00:37:50,919 Speaker 2: it up and we'll sit on the floor and we'll eat, 558 00:37:51,520 --> 00:37:56,839 Speaker 2: you know. And so this one particular time, Xana, for 559 00:37:57,000 --> 00:37:59,880 Speaker 2: whatever number of reasons, whether it was she was alerted 560 00:37:59,920 --> 00:38:03,560 Speaker 2: to who some type of sound or or something had happened. 561 00:38:03,920 --> 00:38:08,000 Speaker 2: I think that going back to the comment, and I'm 562 00:38:08,040 --> 00:38:14,279 Speaker 2: still interested in what where this comment arises about. You 563 00:38:14,320 --> 00:38:17,319 Speaker 2: can hear a person say I'm going to help you, 564 00:38:18,320 --> 00:38:21,360 Speaker 2: and that's that's very sinister. Oh my lord, that is 565 00:38:21,400 --> 00:38:23,319 Speaker 2: And we heard about that early on, didn't we. 566 00:38:23,440 --> 00:38:24,040 Speaker 1: Yes, we did. 567 00:38:24,440 --> 00:38:27,760 Speaker 2: Yeah, And and the fact, you know, you you begin 568 00:38:27,800 --> 00:38:29,960 Speaker 2: to look back at this thing and you think about 569 00:38:30,280 --> 00:38:34,840 Speaker 2: how dark this case really was. Uh. But yeah, it 570 00:38:34,920 --> 00:38:39,720 Speaker 2: turns out that that you know Xanna, who we learned 571 00:38:39,719 --> 00:38:43,800 Speaker 2: a lot about her family and kind of the status 572 00:38:43,840 --> 00:38:45,640 Speaker 2: of her life, you know, just trying to make her 573 00:38:45,719 --> 00:38:49,359 Speaker 2: way in this world. Uh, trying to you know, fit 574 00:38:49,400 --> 00:38:52,839 Speaker 2: in with everybody else. She's got a boyfriend that's over 575 00:38:53,120 --> 00:38:57,680 Speaker 2: with her, in in in the person of Ethan, who's 576 00:38:58,000 --> 00:39:01,799 Speaker 2: in the bed. Uh he's you know, later found it 577 00:39:01,840 --> 00:39:05,120 Speaker 2: looks as though that he he was in bed. You know, 578 00:39:05,160 --> 00:39:07,319 Speaker 2: we thought, you know, early on, you know, there were 579 00:39:07,360 --> 00:39:09,279 Speaker 2: all these things that had come up, you know, where 580 00:39:09,320 --> 00:39:11,960 Speaker 2: he you know, he may have been in the doorway, 581 00:39:12,120 --> 00:39:14,640 Speaker 2: you know, there was a lot of the speculative uh 582 00:39:14,719 --> 00:39:19,280 Speaker 2: stuff that was floating about there. But Xana alerted and David, 583 00:39:19,520 --> 00:39:22,600 Speaker 2: do you think that he chased her about that floor? 584 00:39:23,080 --> 00:39:26,120 Speaker 1: I think that when she was up the stairs, okay, 585 00:39:26,160 --> 00:39:28,960 Speaker 1: trying to I think that, like most of us, I 586 00:39:29,000 --> 00:39:30,719 Speaker 1: heard something. I'm gonna go check it out. And as 587 00:39:30,760 --> 00:39:33,080 Speaker 1: we get closer to it, we slowed down to get 588 00:39:33,120 --> 00:39:37,799 Speaker 1: an eyeball and that's when maybe he turned, maybe she 589 00:39:37,960 --> 00:39:40,560 Speaker 1: gassed maybe, you know, I don't know, but I think 590 00:39:40,600 --> 00:39:42,920 Speaker 1: he came out of that room, chasing her down the stairs. 591 00:39:43,080 --> 00:39:45,440 Speaker 1: I think he caught her and that was where the 592 00:39:45,480 --> 00:39:48,040 Speaker 1: attack began, on the stairs, all the way down into 593 00:39:48,080 --> 00:39:53,440 Speaker 1: the room. Based on the injuries, and where she was 594 00:39:53,480 --> 00:39:57,960 Speaker 1: actually found. I believe that's what happened. And again, now 595 00:39:58,000 --> 00:39:59,560 Speaker 1: going back to some of the things that were said 596 00:39:59,600 --> 00:40:02,120 Speaker 1: you mentioned and the term of Coberger's saying I'm going 597 00:40:02,160 --> 00:40:05,120 Speaker 1: to help you. You know, that was something that we 598 00:40:05,160 --> 00:40:09,080 Speaker 1: heard early on, and I put a lot of stock 599 00:40:09,120 --> 00:40:12,800 Speaker 1: in that because it sounds like something you know, evil 600 00:40:12,840 --> 00:40:13,359 Speaker 1: would say. 601 00:40:14,200 --> 00:40:17,000 Speaker 2: Yeah, it really does, just so that I can I'm 602 00:40:17,040 --> 00:40:18,880 Speaker 2: going to help you, just so I can get closer 603 00:40:18,880 --> 00:40:21,480 Speaker 2: to you, you know, exactly. You put your guard down. 604 00:40:21,520 --> 00:40:24,560 Speaker 2: I'm here to help you. I really, you know. There's 605 00:40:24,600 --> 00:40:27,279 Speaker 2: all kinds of what ifs in this case, Dave. There 606 00:40:27,320 --> 00:40:29,799 Speaker 2: always will be because we still don't we still don't 607 00:40:29,800 --> 00:40:33,759 Speaker 2: have a weapon, right, and there will always be all 608 00:40:33,880 --> 00:40:36,280 Speaker 2: kinds of what ifs relative to it. But it's it's 609 00:40:36,480 --> 00:40:41,040 Speaker 2: I find it particularly interesting that Xanna, in her own way, 610 00:40:41,160 --> 00:40:45,480 Speaker 2: was kind of a key I think, to establishing the 611 00:40:45,520 --> 00:40:48,840 Speaker 2: timeline and the activities you know, up till that point. 612 00:40:49,200 --> 00:40:52,720 Speaker 2: When she stepped out of that room, she sealed her fate, 613 00:40:53,160 --> 00:40:56,600 Speaker 2: I think at that point in time because still even 614 00:40:56,640 --> 00:41:02,400 Speaker 2: though he had he was in a position where he 615 00:41:02,920 --> 00:41:06,720 Speaker 2: had two victims and maybe he was only counting on one. 616 00:41:06,960 --> 00:41:10,319 Speaker 2: This is something he can still control, Dave. Okay, and 617 00:41:10,360 --> 00:41:13,400 Speaker 2: as you look into those dead eyes that he has, 618 00:41:14,680 --> 00:41:17,600 Speaker 2: you know that he wanted to be in control of everything. 619 00:41:17,760 --> 00:41:21,640 Speaker 2: Xana is the red herring here. You know, she pops 620 00:41:21,680 --> 00:41:26,240 Speaker 2: onto the radar. He's alerted to her and what she's doing. 621 00:41:27,160 --> 00:41:31,960 Speaker 2: You know that I've been spotted. Now. You know, hell 622 00:41:32,080 --> 00:41:34,480 Speaker 2: is about to follow, you know, because I've got to 623 00:41:34,560 --> 00:41:37,040 Speaker 2: kill anybody that is going to get in my way. 624 00:41:37,200 --> 00:41:40,439 Speaker 2: The rest of these the one roommate that peeked out 625 00:41:40,440 --> 00:41:43,719 Speaker 2: of the door, she needs to get down on her 626 00:41:43,800 --> 00:41:46,279 Speaker 2: knees every single day of her life and think the 627 00:41:46,320 --> 00:41:49,680 Speaker 2: sweet Lord above that she's still with us, because I 628 00:41:49,719 --> 00:41:51,279 Speaker 2: think that a lot of it has to do that. 629 00:41:51,320 --> 00:41:56,520 Speaker 2: He was just exhausted at that point. You know, no 630 00:41:56,600 --> 00:41:58,719 Speaker 2: one will ever convince me any different that this was 631 00:41:58,760 --> 00:42:02,120 Speaker 2: not sexually motivated thing that was going on. And it's 632 00:42:02,200 --> 00:42:06,560 Speaker 2: almost like a climax had taken place with him, this release, 633 00:42:06,640 --> 00:42:10,520 Speaker 2: if you will, and then he's running on pure adrenaline 634 00:42:10,880 --> 00:42:14,360 Speaker 2: and anger. You know, how dare you you know, interrupt 635 00:42:14,400 --> 00:42:18,120 Speaker 2: what I'm doing here? And you know, when you take 636 00:42:18,440 --> 00:42:23,160 Speaker 2: the total view of this case and the dynamics of it, 637 00:42:23,200 --> 00:42:28,440 Speaker 2: and also the the interesting way that a lot of 638 00:42:28,480 --> 00:42:31,840 Speaker 2: the data was communicated to everybody out there that's sitting 639 00:42:31,920 --> 00:42:35,359 Speaker 2: and watching this every day. I don't know that there 640 00:42:35,400 --> 00:42:39,160 Speaker 2: will ever be another case like this. I hope that 641 00:42:39,200 --> 00:42:41,279 Speaker 2: there won't be, but you and I know, I know 642 00:42:41,360 --> 00:42:44,480 Speaker 2: that I might be a bit more jaded than you, 643 00:42:45,000 --> 00:42:48,440 Speaker 2: but I think I know that I think we understand 644 00:42:48,440 --> 00:42:52,200 Speaker 2: that there will be something that will arise that will 645 00:42:52,239 --> 00:42:55,440 Speaker 2: be absolutely horrific. I don't think that there will be 646 00:42:55,520 --> 00:43:00,839 Speaker 2: anytime in the foreseeable future where the names of these 647 00:43:00,920 --> 00:43:05,160 Speaker 2: victims and the events of that night will be struck 648 00:43:05,200 --> 00:43:07,680 Speaker 2: from our memory. It's something that will stay with us 649 00:43:07,719 --> 00:43:11,640 Speaker 2: forever and ever. And Dave, I got to say to you, 650 00:43:11,719 --> 00:43:16,480 Speaker 2: it's been my deep pleasure to talk about these cases 651 00:43:16,560 --> 00:43:19,799 Speaker 2: and hopefully be of some service to people that try 652 00:43:19,800 --> 00:43:23,960 Speaker 2: to understand the dynamics of injuries and understand forensics a 653 00:43:24,040 --> 00:43:26,759 Speaker 2: little bit better. Because this in and of itself is 654 00:43:26,760 --> 00:43:29,200 Speaker 2: probably one of the more complicated cases that we've had 655 00:43:29,200 --> 00:43:32,040 Speaker 2: to go through. I hope that I've done my best 656 00:43:33,000 --> 00:43:35,360 Speaker 2: as a teacher and someone that tries to keep the 657 00:43:35,400 --> 00:43:39,320 Speaker 2: public informed. It's been a great year for us. Twenty 658 00:43:39,360 --> 00:43:41,680 Speaker 2: twenty five has been and we look forward to a 659 00:43:41,719 --> 00:43:45,560 Speaker 2: great twenty twenty six with body Bags. So I'd like 660 00:43:45,600 --> 00:43:47,560 Speaker 2: to say just thank you, Dave, thank you for everything 661 00:43:47,600 --> 00:43:50,600 Speaker 2: you've done for the show and for me personally. And 662 00:43:52,400 --> 00:43:54,920 Speaker 2: I have a good feeling that twenty twenty six is 663 00:43:54,920 --> 00:43:57,640 Speaker 2: going to have great things in store for both of 664 00:43:57,719 --> 00:43:58,680 Speaker 2: us and for the show. 665 00:43:58,840 --> 00:44:01,680 Speaker 1: What say you, I'm right back at you. I think 666 00:44:01,960 --> 00:44:07,480 Speaker 1: I'm appreciative of how you've been able to I'm appreciative 667 00:44:07,520 --> 00:44:09,480 Speaker 1: of the fact that you share your knowledge, you know 668 00:44:09,520 --> 00:44:11,640 Speaker 1: your history, and not just your book knowledge, but your 669 00:44:11,680 --> 00:44:14,200 Speaker 1: history in the field to help all of us understand 670 00:44:15,080 --> 00:44:19,680 Speaker 1: the crimes better more than just the fascination, the preurery 671 00:44:19,719 --> 00:44:22,680 Speaker 1: and interests that most many people have, to actually get 672 00:44:22,680 --> 00:44:26,280 Speaker 1: into the mechanations of what took place, how it happened, 673 00:44:26,280 --> 00:44:28,560 Speaker 1: and what these things mean. A lot of times we 674 00:44:28,680 --> 00:44:32,239 Speaker 1: jump to conclusions, those of us who are not educated, 675 00:44:32,400 --> 00:44:35,760 Speaker 1: you know, we think something means something that it doesn't, 676 00:44:36,000 --> 00:44:38,719 Speaker 1: and you actually have a way of breaking that down 677 00:44:38,800 --> 00:44:42,160 Speaker 1: to show us that something we didn't find important actually 678 00:44:42,440 --> 00:44:44,960 Speaker 1: is the turn of the case. And I'm appreciative of that. 679 00:44:45,000 --> 00:44:47,680 Speaker 1: It has been a great year and I look forward 680 00:44:47,719 --> 00:44:50,759 Speaker 1: to twenty twenty six. The show continues to grow, and 681 00:44:50,800 --> 00:44:53,919 Speaker 1: it's because of you, and I don't know. My only 682 00:44:53,960 --> 00:44:59,360 Speaker 1: recommendation is that maybe instead of doing twenty seven shows 683 00:45:00,120 --> 00:45:01,960 Speaker 1: a day, that maybe you take it down to twenty 684 00:45:02,000 --> 00:45:08,480 Speaker 1: five because you know you have You've become the go 685 00:45:08,560 --> 00:45:12,799 Speaker 1: to guy by every network, and congratulations for that. I've 686 00:45:12,840 --> 00:45:15,920 Speaker 1: watched you, oh well, thank you from the beginning to 687 00:45:15,960 --> 00:45:17,759 Speaker 1: where you are now, and it's been phenomenal. 688 00:45:17,840 --> 00:45:19,480 Speaker 2: Right, well, I couldn't do it with that your sage, 689 00:45:19,480 --> 00:45:22,480 Speaker 2: advice and ladies and gentlemen, I got the best producer 690 00:45:22,480 --> 00:45:26,480 Speaker 2: in the business. Dave mac is on fire with everything 691 00:45:26,600 --> 00:45:30,759 Speaker 2: he does. He is a great colleague, and most of all, 692 00:45:30,800 --> 00:45:33,480 Speaker 2: he's a great friend. And we look forward. Dave and 693 00:45:33,480 --> 00:45:36,200 Speaker 2: I both look forward. We're going to be journeying out 694 00:45:37,200 --> 00:45:40,279 Speaker 2: over the course of twenty twenty six and will have 695 00:45:40,320 --> 00:45:42,040 Speaker 2: a couple of stops along the way. I hope that 696 00:45:42,080 --> 00:45:43,959 Speaker 2: we see you guys out there, come up and chat 697 00:45:44,000 --> 00:45:47,080 Speaker 2: with us. We'll be glad to entertain your thoughts and 698 00:45:48,120 --> 00:45:50,440 Speaker 2: have a conversation, maybe even a cup of coffee. You 699 00:45:50,520 --> 00:45:54,239 Speaker 2: never know, But thank you again, my friends, thank you 700 00:45:54,280 --> 00:45:58,000 Speaker 2: for a great twenty twenty five, and here's to the 701 00:45:58,120 --> 00:46:02,960 Speaker 2: upcoming year. Twenty six. I pray for peace for everyone. 702 00:46:03,040 --> 00:46:06,600 Speaker 2: I pray for peace for our country, and most of all, 703 00:46:06,840 --> 00:46:10,920 Speaker 2: I pray for peace for the families, families that are 704 00:46:11,000 --> 00:46:13,279 Speaker 2: left behind the wake of all of the horror that's 705 00:46:13,320 --> 00:46:20,680 Speaker 2: out there. I'm Joseph Scott Morgan and this is Bodybacks.