Speaker 1: It was August sixth, nineteen eighty eight. Jan Borowski was
Speaker 1: seven months pregnant. She had been at the fair, having
Speaker 1: a fabulous time. She got hot, she got tired, so
Speaker 1: as she's driving home, she thought, I'm gonna stop at
Speaker 1: this convenience store and get me something to drink. Well,
Speaker 1: the convenience store was closed, but as luck would have it,
Speaker 1: they had a vendom machine outside. So she parked her car,
Speaker 1: rummaged through her pursed, tried to find some change, went
Speaker 1: up to the vendom machine and it took her money.
Speaker 1: So she went back to her car, got more change,
Speaker 1: and went back to the vending machine, and then things
Speaker 1: went away that she would have never thought possible in
Speaker 1: her deepest nightmares. She was only twenty two years old.
Speaker 1: Now this story has a miracle attached to it, So
Speaker 1: y'all stay with me. Our guest tonight is not just
Speaker 1: a survivor. She's the only survivor of the Connecticut River
Speaker 1: Valley serial killer. And y'all, she's brought her own Zone
Speaker 1: seven with her. Please help me. Welcome Jane Barowski, Amanda Bettered,
Speaker 1: and Drew Bettered. Y'all, welcome to Zone seven.
Speaker 2: Thank you so happy to be here. Thank you for
Speaker 2: having us.
Speaker 3: Thank you so much for having us.
Speaker 4: We appreciate it.
Speaker 1: Well, let me tell you what's remarkable. Some of y'all
Speaker 1: may already know their names. They're from the Invisible Tears podcast.
Speaker 1: Y'all know what I'm talking about. That podcast that goes
Speaker 1: deep into what happened to Jane and then what she
Speaker 1: did with it, and y'all you know, sometimes you think,
Speaker 1: how in the world does something like this happen to
Speaker 1: somebody and they turn around and use it for good. Well,
Speaker 1: we're gonna talk about that too, because that's exactly what
Speaker 1: she's doing. Jane. Why don't you talk about what happened
Speaker 1: that night just a little bit, and then I want
Speaker 1: to bring Amanda and Drew back in and let's talk
Speaker 1: about what you're doing currently. Does that sound okay?
Speaker 2: That sounds great? Thank you. Yeah, I everything you said.
Speaker 5: Went to affairs, stopped for a soda. I'm sitting there
Speaker 5: drinking my soda and a vehicle pulled in part beside
Speaker 5: me on my passenger side of my car.
Speaker 2: Didn't think anything of it. I'd like to add that
Speaker 2: Swansea is a very small town in New Hampshire and
Speaker 2: in nineteen eighty eight. It had virtually no major crime,
Speaker 2: so I felt safe.
Speaker 5: Next thing I know, I see him in my rear
Speaker 5: view mirror walking behind my car, went up to my
Speaker 5: car door and tried to take me out of the car.
Speaker 5: We struggled. We thought I thought I kicked him. I
Speaker 5: ended up smashing my windshield because I went to kick
Speaker 5: him and I kicked my windshield. And then he took
Speaker 5: a knife out and said, maybe this will persuade you
Speaker 5: to get out of the car, which it did.
Speaker 2: I got out of the car, and he was confusing
Speaker 2: to me.
Speaker 5: For one he he told me that I beat up
Speaker 5: his girlfriend, which obviously I had not, and he asked
Speaker 5: me or mentioned that my car was a Massachusetts car,
Speaker 5: which I was like, no, I have new Hampshire plates
Speaker 5: on my car. So he kind of like walked away
Speaker 5: from me and went to the back of the car.
Speaker 5: And I'm thinking, okay, he's confused. It took me, you know,
Speaker 5: I took my safeguard down, thought that, you know, he
Speaker 5: mistaken me for somebody else. And the next thing I know,
Speaker 5: I see him walking towards his vehicle. Well then I'm like,
Speaker 5: I'm sitting here with a smash windshield, so I'm like, hey,
Speaker 5: what about my windshield? And those are the words that
Speaker 5: I regret for the rest of my life. He came
Speaker 5: back around put the knife up against my neck and
Speaker 5: I'm standing there and he was still wanting me to
Speaker 5: go with him, and I knew in my mind if
Speaker 5: I went with him, I probably would not be alive today.
Speaker 5: So I saw a vehicle coming down the road headlights
Speaker 5: and I said to myself, Okay, the only way I'm
Speaker 5: getting myself out of this situation is to run as
Speaker 5: fast as I can to the road and scream.
Speaker 2: And I did.
Speaker 5: I just took right off, started running towards the road.
Speaker 2: The vehicle was coming.
Speaker 5: I'm screaming, and the vehicle just drove right by, and
Speaker 5: the next thing I know, he like tackled me down
Speaker 5: like a football player, got me on my back. I
Speaker 5: was laying on the ground on my back and he
Speaker 5: got on top of me, and before I knew it,
Speaker 5: he was stabbing me multiple times. And he stopped and
Speaker 5: got up walked away, And by this time I'm bleeding
Speaker 5: and I'm trying to get myself up, and I rolled
Speaker 5: myself over to my stomach and I get up on
Speaker 5: my hands and knees, and he drives by me and
Speaker 5: looked right down at me.
Speaker 2: I looked right up at him, and he just drove off.
Speaker 5: So I did everything I could to get to my vehicle,
Speaker 5: got in my vehicle, started it, and I had a
Speaker 5: friend of mine that lived about two miles down the road.
Speaker 5: So I knew if I could just get to his house,
Speaker 5: you know, I would be able to get help. And
Speaker 5: so I'm driving down the road and next thing I know,
Speaker 5: I'm right behind him.
Speaker 2: He's right in front of me.
Speaker 1: You know, Jane, I got to tell you, that's part
Speaker 1: of the story that gave me, I think, the most chills.
Speaker 1: For some reason, I was not expecting that when I
Speaker 1: first heard your story.
Speaker 2: Oh I was not needle something.
Speaker 1: Oh yep. But for some reason, the idea that you
Speaker 1: were able to catch up to him and realize he's
Speaker 1: ahead of you. Oh lord, All right, go ahead, honey,
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, I just had.
Speaker 2: To That's okay.
Speaker 5: So he was in front of me, and my biggest
Speaker 5: fear was he was going to see where I turned
Speaker 5: the driveway that I was turning into. And so I
Speaker 5: got to the driveway, I pulled in the driveway, he went,
Speaker 5: He went four straight. I went up to my friend's door. Well,
Speaker 5: I didn't even get to the door. I got to
Speaker 5: the bottom of the little steps that goes up to
Speaker 5: the door, and I was just like, you need to
Speaker 5: get me help. Some asshole just stabbed the crap out
Speaker 5: of me and I collapsed on the steps and next
Speaker 5: thing I know, we hear the vehicle come back by
Speaker 5: the house the opposite way, and we heard squealed tires
Speaker 5: and then it left in them just disappeared in the night.
Speaker 2: So I was I'm fortunate to be alive. I was
Speaker 2: stabbed twenty seven times.
Speaker 5: He sliced my juggler in my neck, I had two
Speaker 5: collapse lungs, a cut tendon in my thumb, a cut
Speaker 5: tendon in my knee. I had a lot of defensive wounds.
Speaker 1: So let me just ask you, he thought he left
Speaker 1: you for dead?
Speaker 2: I believe so, yeah, I believe that.
Speaker 1: So when he realized, wait a minute, that's her car.
Speaker 1: Because you had a very distinct car. Tell everybody your
Speaker 1: car because you love that car.
Speaker 2: Oh, I did love my car.
Speaker 5: I had a nineteen eighty five Firebird white right on it,
Speaker 5: red interior. It was absolutely gorgeous. I absolutely loved the car.
Speaker 5: Loved it, and you know, I loved it so much
Speaker 5: that I kept it. Obviously that there was a lot
Speaker 5: of blood and everything in the car, and so while
Speaker 5: I was in the hospital, my husband had it clean detailed.
Speaker 5: After the police were done fingerprinting it and doing all
Speaker 5: their forensics and gathering evidence, my husband had it detailed
Speaker 5: and he wanted to sell it, and I was like, no,
Speaker 5: that's my car.
Speaker 2: You're selling my car. I love that car.
Speaker 1: There's nothing like a car that you just you just
Speaker 1: dig it, like that's your set of wheels.
Speaker 2: You know, absolutely.
Speaker 5: That was a nineteen eighty five Firebirds where the nicest
Speaker 5: sports cars.
Speaker 2: Uh, and it drove so nice.
Speaker 1: So let's talk about your support system. I want to
Speaker 1: bring Amanda in first, because Amanda, you're a trauma expert,
Speaker 1: but you also have something that is in your wheelhouse
Speaker 1: that I think is pretty powerful and we don't talk
Speaker 1: about it a lot. People don't maybe know a lot
Speaker 1: about it. You deal with energy, and I think that
Speaker 1: anybody that's ever been in a traumatic situation that had
Speaker 1: somebody just touch their hand knows the power of touch.
Speaker 1: I think making sure that people are intuitive and that
Speaker 1: they are ever present. I think that's one of the
Speaker 1: most important things, Amanda. I was at a wedding about
Speaker 1: a year and a half ago, and the preacher told
Speaker 1: the couple to turn around and just take it in
Speaker 1: that this was going to go by so fast and
Speaker 1: there were going to be things they didn't remember, and
Speaker 1: he basically just made them take that moment. And I thought,
Speaker 1: that's one of the most powerful things I've ever seen
Speaker 1: at a wedding. So tell everybody a little bit about
Speaker 1: what it is you do to help Jane.
Speaker 3: Yeah, sure, So I'm actually a wreaky master teacher, and
Speaker 3: so as you speak about energy, So, Reikie is a
Speaker 3: form of energy work where I channel universal energy through
Speaker 3: myself and help clients as I tune into their energy field.
Speaker 3: And while that sounds really, you know, kind of like
Speaker 3: kooky sometimes for people listening to it, just think about
Speaker 3: it like this. Absolutely everything is energy, and when anybody
Speaker 3: goes through any sort of situation, possibly trauma, maybe something
Speaker 3: great or something that's not so great, it actually imprints
Speaker 3: energy into your energy field. So as a reiki master,
Speaker 3: what I do is I tune into people's energy fields
Speaker 3: and I help them cleanse anything that may be stuck
Speaker 3: in their energy field. A lot of times people don't
Speaker 3: realize that pain can manifest in your energy field.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you can get diseases for sure. Yeah, absolutely. Okay, yep.
Speaker 1: So let me ask you this, Drew. I noticed that
Speaker 1: you and Amanda have the same last name. Is there
Speaker 1: a reason for that? Sorry? Ah?
Speaker 4: Yes, Amanda is my wife.
Speaker 1: Okay. And then you have mentioned that you've known Jane
Speaker 1: your whole life, So tell us how the three of
Speaker 1: y'all teamed up. Ah.
Speaker 4: Yes, So, Jane and her husband Dennis have been friends
Speaker 4: with my parents for my entire life. One of my
Speaker 4: earlier childhood memories is I actually do remember watching The
Speaker 4: Unsolved Mysteries when they covered Jane's case, so at a
Speaker 4: very early age. That did sort of leave that imprint
Speaker 4: and really did kick off my intrigue with true crime.
Speaker 4: And with Jane being so close to the family, it
Speaker 4: was very difficult for me because I wanted to ask
Speaker 4: her so many questions about the case, but I didn't
Speaker 4: want to bring it up because we were way too close.
Speaker 4: I didn't want to broach that subject. I didn't know
Speaker 4: if she was ready to talk about he or anything
Speaker 4: like that. And then this was probably about ten fifteen
Speaker 4: years ago, Jane and I were sitting around campfire at
Speaker 4: a campground in New Hampshire and she just looks at
Speaker 4: me and goes, you know, Andrew, have I ever showed
Speaker 4: you the scars? And it instantly opened up kind of
Speaker 4: like that book, where I could just ask her questions
Speaker 4: about it, you know, who the current suspect at that
Speaker 4: time was, and just kind of do a little bit
Speaker 4: of a deep dive with being able to ask her
Speaker 4: those questions that I kind of always wanted to know,
Speaker 4: and it made it very good for our relationship as well.
Speaker 4: And then it was around the when the pandemic kicked off,
Speaker 4: Jane and her daughter Jessica were listening to some episodes
Speaker 4: talking about the Connecticut Valley case and they were in
Speaker 4: there going god, there's a lot of you know, wrong information,
Speaker 4: or the story is not really adding up, or they're
Speaker 4: talking about this and doesn't make sense, and they're like,
Speaker 4: why don't we do our podcast and actually tell the
Speaker 4: full story? But they didn't really know where to start,
Speaker 4: and Jane was like, don't. I don't know how to
Speaker 4: do this, and Jessica goes ask Andrew. So Jane sent
Speaker 4: me a text and was like, Hey, do you got
Speaker 4: do you want to go out to lunch? I've got
Speaker 4: a great idea. So we went to a Longhorn Sta
Speaker 4: Longhorned Steakhouse in Keene, New Hampshire, Jane, Me, Amanda and
Speaker 4: Jess and we sat there and just kind of talked
Speaker 4: about what the plans would be if we did want
Speaker 4: to do a show. And Amanda and I were absolutely
Speaker 4: honored because for me it was a if I can
Speaker 4: help Jane, give her a platform to tell her story
Speaker 4: how it happened, but then also what happened to her
Speaker 4: after the fact. Because being a family friend, I was
Speaker 4: able to witness a lot of the stuff, even though
Speaker 4: Jane was she'll be admit to it, keeping a lot
Speaker 4: of stuff on the down low. So there was a
Speaker 4: lot that we didn't know, but we did know some
Speaker 4: of the some of the stuff that was happening to her.
Speaker 4: So I just wanted to give her that opportunity to
Speaker 4: try to not only tell her story, but also if
Speaker 4: she can help somebody that also went through something traumatic.
Speaker 4: Amandon and I were going to be there to support
Speaker 4: her as best we could to try to put this
Speaker 4: podcast together.
Speaker 1: Jane, how important was it for you to not just
Speaker 1: have support but to have two people that are willing
Speaker 1: to say, hey, you may not understand this energy thing,
Speaker 1: but I'm going to try to help you, and then
Speaker 1: Andrews saying hey, I'm going to help run this thing
Speaker 1: and produce it and have all of that at your disposal.
Speaker 2: Oh as blessed today. I am blessed.
Speaker 5: We've become a great team. You know, I wanted a
Speaker 5: platform to share I suffered PTSD for a long time
Speaker 5: because of my attack, and I know there's a lot
Speaker 5: of people out there that also have gone through trauma
Speaker 5: and have PTSD, but they don't really know how to
Speaker 5: actually go about to getting help. It took me over
Speaker 5: twenty years to actually see a counselor for the first
Speaker 5: time about my attack and about what happened to me.
Speaker 5: So to when they just when they accepted and they
Speaker 5: were like, yeah, let's do this. I was elated. I
Speaker 5: was I felt blessed. I was like, Okay, now I
Speaker 5: have a platform to tell my story. Because you know,
Speaker 5: when you go through something traumatic like I've gone through,
Speaker 5: the story doesn't end with Okay, she healed physically, she's
Speaker 5: out of the hospital, she goes home. Story done. It
Speaker 5: doesn't happen that way. I may have healed very quickly physically,
Speaker 5: but not mentally. Mentally took years.
Speaker 1: You made the news before you even got released from
Speaker 1: the hospital. You didn't know whether or not he was
Speaker 1: coming back exactly, especially once he knew your name.
Speaker 2: Yep, exactly exactly. And that was the thing.
Speaker 5: Back then, they put the victim's names all over media,
Speaker 5: and they don't do that today. If the victim has survived,
Speaker 5: you don't see the victim's name anymore, especially if the
Speaker 5: case is unsolved. But yeah, back then was a very
Speaker 5: very different time, and so I, you know, I lived
Speaker 5: with a lot of fear for a long time, and
Speaker 5: it kind of produced other things in me, like anger
Speaker 5: and survivor's guilt and anxiety and night mayors and so
Speaker 5: I had, you know, I had all the symptoms of PTSD,
Speaker 5: but I at the time, I didn't know I had
Speaker 5: PTSD until I went to my counselor. And my counselor
Speaker 5: was like, hey, here's some symptoms of PTSD. I really
Speaker 5: think you have PTSD. Go home, and you know, look
Speaker 5: at the paper and look look at the symptoms. Because
Speaker 5: I was like, PTSD is for like you know, servicemen
Speaker 5: and women that have seen the unspeakable overseas, you know.
Speaker 5: But I read that and I was like blown away.
Speaker 5: But yet at the same time, I was like, oh
Speaker 5: my god, now I have PTSD.
Speaker 4: Now what?
Speaker 2: And that's what I said to her. I was like, okay,
Speaker 2: you got me. I have PTSD. Now what.
Speaker 5: And she's like, we start healing you. Those were words
Speaker 5: I have never heard. I never heard those before.
Speaker 6: She's the one that And you know, it's shocking that
Speaker 6: you know, here you are in the middle of this
Speaker 6: horrific event, yet you had not ever been told or.
Speaker 1: Sat and thought. I not only witnessed something unspeakable, I
Speaker 1: had something unspeakable happened to me, and as somebody's trying
Speaker 1: to kill me, I'm trying to protect my unborn child. Afterwards,
Speaker 1: I think I'm still being hunted. I don't know where
Speaker 1: he's at. I don't know if he's going to strike again.
Speaker 1: They asked you to do a composite, and you know,
Speaker 1: you can't even speak. You've got to blink yes or
Speaker 1: no for the composite. Tell everybody about that.
Speaker 2: So I was.
Speaker 5: I believe it was like day two or day three
Speaker 5: when I was in the hospital. I was in intensive care.
Speaker 2: I see you.
Speaker 5: I had a ventilator, and the detectives came in with
Speaker 5: this box of slides, and they were like different eyes
Speaker 5: and different noses and different mouths and different faces and hair,
Speaker 5: and so I had all kinds of different slides. And
Speaker 5: because I had a ventilator, they were trying to make
Speaker 5: a composite to spread around so that they could put
Speaker 5: that in the news and put flyers out and stuff.
Speaker 5: So I had to blink when they showed me eyes
Speaker 5: or nose. I had to blink once for yes and
Speaker 5: two for no. I think, you know, I look back
Speaker 5: and I thought about this a couple of years ago.
Speaker 5: I looked back on that, and it's like, I wonder
Speaker 5: if they thought they needed to get this composite out
Speaker 5: because they didn't think I was going to survive.
Speaker 1: And we don't know where he's at and he gets
Speaker 1: strike again. I mean, I'm sure it was a parallel concern,
Speaker 1: but you know, you're talking about both your lungs and
Speaker 1: carotid artery. I mean, he wasn't playing. He literally thought
Speaker 1: you were going to die right there in that parking lot.
Speaker 2: I think he expected me to but I didn't.
Speaker 1: No, you did, not, Sugar Amanda, when you talk about,
Speaker 1: you know, we're gonna do this and it's going to
Speaker 1: be victim centered and we're going to have a platform
Speaker 1: where other people can, you know, get help and tell
Speaker 1: their story. How difficult is it for you to make
Speaker 1: sure that you stay true to what y'all want to do,
Speaker 1: that you don't make an off handed joke that you
Speaker 1: don't not think about, Hey, this is the anniversary of
Speaker 1: when she was attacked, this is the anniversary when she
Speaker 1: was let out of the hospital, this is the anniversary
Speaker 1: of you know, the other victims. Like, that's a lot
Speaker 1: on you too.
Speaker 3: M Yeah, Yeah, it absolutely is. I definitely think that
Speaker 3: all of us can probably agree that. Since we've been
Speaker 3: in this podcasting space, and now, mind you, none of
Speaker 3: us were podcasters before. We had to teach ourselves, right,
Speaker 3: So as we've been sort of stumbling along this path,
Speaker 3: we've we've definitely we've learned quite a few things. I
Speaker 3: think now we are all finally at the point where
Speaker 3: we all understand that we are victim advocates. We see
Speaker 3: the work that we've done, we see who we've helped,
Speaker 3: and we're extremely proud of that and that sort of
Speaker 3: keeps us keeps us going and gives us momentum to
Speaker 3: keep going. I do have to say from a personal perspective,
Speaker 3: being within this space, especially like for myself personally, being
Speaker 3: very sensitive to energy, being very you know, compassionate and
Speaker 3: victim centric and that sort of thing. It being in
Speaker 3: this space has been hard for me sometimes I need to,
Speaker 3: you know, take some mental health today, is myself right,
Speaker 3: and just sort of decompress and just remember why we
Speaker 3: are doing what we're doing, and we're in it to help,
Speaker 3: and we're in it for the right reasons.
Speaker 1: I preach work life balance. That balance is so important.
Speaker 1: You've got to do something tough like I know today
Speaker 1: is tough on Jane. I know it, which is another
Speaker 1: reason I think you and Drew are so important. And
Speaker 1: Drew I was going to ask, you know, when she's
Speaker 1: got to gear up, She's got to tell this again.
Speaker 1: You know, this is not entertainment. This is her life.
Speaker 1: And you know, one thing that I have learned, whether
Speaker 1: it's talking to Jane or talking to Kathy Kleiner, they
Speaker 1: have this same just experience in that the killer would
Speaker 1: be killer was not in a hurry, he wasn't anxious,
Speaker 1: he wasn't just out of control, it's it's the opposite
Speaker 1: of Sometimes we envision and like if we were writ
Speaker 1: in this horror movie the way we would make the killer.
Speaker 1: He's calculated, he's calm. He jives past her and just
Speaker 1: looks at her and keeps going and goes slow. He's
Speaker 1: not speeding out of there. So when you're dealing with
Speaker 1: Jane before the show, during the show, which again I'm
Speaker 1: glad y'all are here for her, and then after the show,
Speaker 1: how important is that.
Speaker 4: It's very important for us to make sure that Jane
Speaker 4: is in the right headspace. If something is hitting her
Speaker 4: too hard, we definitely pull the rains back and we
Speaker 4: kind of look at the day that Jane is having.
Speaker 4: And a lot of times there is very good days
Speaker 4: where she's an open book and we can ask her
Speaker 4: as much questions as possible. Like, you know, there is
Speaker 4: one day where we just sat down and we were like, okay, Jane,
Speaker 4: put yourself back when you were laying on the pavement.
Speaker 4: Do you remember the sound of the shoes that were
Speaker 4: making as he was walking across the pavement. You know,
Speaker 4: what type of clothing was he wear? Like, trying to
Speaker 4: bring her back to that moment, to try to grasp
Speaker 4: any detail that she might have, but also knowing there's
Speaker 4: going to be certain times when she is not mentally
Speaker 4: in the right frame of mind to talk. But I
Speaker 4: think with the work that we've been doing, and especially
Speaker 4: with Jane being able to talk to other survivors, being
Speaker 4: you know, really getting into the advocacy headspace, she's ready
Speaker 4: to talk and ready to take on a lot more
Speaker 4: weight as she's not just advocating for herself anymore, but
Speaker 4: she's advocating for the seven other women that were killed,
Speaker 4: you know, within the Connecticut Valley as well as some
Speaker 4: other cases. So she has definitely taken on a lot
Speaker 4: of the weight of that. But we're just here to
Speaker 4: support her and try to help her out as much
Speaker 4: as possible, whether that's people coming with information, you know,
Speaker 4: sometimes it's information that I know would just set her
Speaker 4: off a little bit. Yeah, No, it wasn't that. It's okay.
Speaker 4: I will keep that information. I'll just give her a
Speaker 4: summary of it, but kind of make sure that it's
Speaker 4: something that's not gonna, you know, kind of send her
Speaker 4: into a little bit of a tailsman.
Speaker 1: Well, Jane, this tickles me a little bit because Amanda
Speaker 1: and Drew both they almost sound like they're very calm,
Speaker 1: they're very in touch and being kind and gracious. Girl,
Speaker 1: you're a pistol. Let me tell you something. That man
Speaker 1: had already pulled a knifef on you, and you're like, hey, dude,
Speaker 1: what about my crackweindshield, Like, what's up like paying for that?
Speaker 1: So I think again that balance. I don't know you
Speaker 1: that well, Jane, but I'm just saying I've heard you
Speaker 1: talk on more than one interview, and I mean, you're
Speaker 1: You're just a boss, right, I mean you you are her,
Speaker 1: you are you know, you've got that vibrato about you.
Speaker 1: I think you know what I mean.
Speaker 5: I do, I do, and you know, I to kind
Speaker 5: of backtrack to I Andrew. One of the things that
Speaker 5: helps me keeps me centered and grounded and stuff is
Speaker 5: the advocating is helping others. I know when somebody comes
Speaker 5: on our podcast and they tell their loved one story,
Speaker 5: I know that we're helping them. So that helps me.
Speaker 5: That helps me a lot. You know, the advocating has
Speaker 5: been so therapeutic for us, especially for me. It just
Speaker 5: knowing that telling my story has helped other people. We
Speaker 5: get emails. I've had several emails of people telling me
Speaker 5: I was in a domestic relationship, violent relationship for years
Speaker 5: and I finally got out. And for fifteen years, I've
Speaker 5: known I needed counseling, but never have done it. And
Speaker 5: they email me and tell me I just made my
Speaker 5: first appointment for counseling because they heard my podcast. That
Speaker 5: is huge, Like, that's what we had always said from
Speaker 5: the beginning. If we could help that one person, then
Speaker 5: we've done our job. This is what we wanted to do.
Speaker 5: This is what we're doing, and we have. We've helped several.
Speaker 1: You have every right to just want to be in
Speaker 1: the bed all the time and upset, but you're using
Speaker 1: it for good. Something so horrible and you're turning it
Speaker 1: to say, you know what, I'm going to help other people.
Speaker 5: Well, I felt so alone for so many years, like
Speaker 5: I didn't know somebody else that had gone through something
Speaker 5: so traumatic as I have been through. So who do
Speaker 5: you talk to? Who do you you know? I didn't
Speaker 5: know Kathy Klein.
Speaker 2: Then you know.
Speaker 5: There's not and there's no books out there. Oh, I
Speaker 5: survived a serial killers. So what am I supposed to
Speaker 5: do now for the rest you know, the rest of
Speaker 5: my life? There there's nothing out there. So I was
Speaker 5: lost for a long long time. And if I was
Speaker 5: lost after I've gone through something traumatic like this, I
Speaker 5: know there's other people out there that have that have
Speaker 5: been feeling the same way as I was for years.
Speaker 5: And so in telling my story and getting it out
Speaker 5: and and you know, like I said before, one of
Speaker 5: the most important parts of my story is not my attack,
Speaker 5: it's my life after the attack. I mean, it wasn't
Speaker 5: it wasn't easy. It was very hard for a long time,
Speaker 5: but it was also something that helped build me to
Speaker 5: the person that the person that I am today, and
Speaker 5: that's you know, I can't put a price on that
Speaker 5: or anything, but my podcast allows me to do this
Speaker 5: and to be the person I want to be.
Speaker 1: These crimes occurred between nineteen seventy eight and nineteen eighty seven.
Speaker 1: There are seven women that they know are connected to
Speaker 1: this killer, but there's possibly many many more. Talk about
Speaker 1: that a little bit about how you're trying to advocate
Speaker 1: for all of the victims and potential victims.
Speaker 5: We've been doing the rallies up at the AG's office
Speaker 5: in Conquered New Hampshire. They're starting to open these cases
Speaker 5: up and looking at him at them a lot more.
Speaker 5: One thing I like that they're doing now is instead
Speaker 5: of looking at them all as a whole, they're individually
Speaker 5: investigating them.
Speaker 2: Now.
Speaker 5: Back in the eighties, I think there was a lot
Speaker 5: of speculation that there was one killer.
Speaker 2: Now it's like, I'm not sure they're doing.
Speaker 5: They're doing a lot more investigating individually. And that's super
Speaker 5: important because I think that they'll get further with maybe
Speaker 5: once they solve one case, maybe they can solve another
Speaker 5: that's connected, that's connected to that case.
Speaker 1: I think that's the right approach individually, and then you know,
Speaker 1: deconstruct it and build it back up.
Speaker 5: I agree, But I mean, what do I say to
Speaker 5: other women? You know, the world is not a safe place,
Speaker 5: and we it's funny. We just I just did a video.
Speaker 5: There's several unsolved murders happening in Cannnecticuette, Massachusetts, and Rhode
Speaker 5: Island right now. They've been finding all kinds of bodies
Speaker 5: and remains the past couple of months.
Speaker 2: And I did a.
Speaker 5: Video on it yesterday, And you know, I'm frustrated that
Speaker 5: law enforcement doesn't give out very much information. And I
Speaker 5: get some of their reasons, I really do, But when
Speaker 5: they call every single case not suspicious, that just doesn't
Speaker 5: sound right. And that's what they do in the Hampshire
Speaker 5: a lot. But what I would rather have them say
Speaker 5: is the case is being investigated, but be vigilant. And
Speaker 5: that was part of my video yesterday. It was like
Speaker 5: I wanted people to know, yes, there is a possibility
Speaker 5: that there's a serial killer out there, no proof yet,
Speaker 5: but I want this information to be spread so women
Speaker 5: or people can be more vigilant. Like walking going on
Speaker 5: a trail hike, don't go one at a time, do two,
Speaker 5: be a buddy system, Carrie Peppers Ray. Be aware of
Speaker 5: your surroundings. Don't wear earbuds if you're alone jogging. That way,
Speaker 5: you're more aware of what your surroundings are, and you know,
Speaker 5: you can hear if somebody's you know, behind you, are
Speaker 5: coming to coming towards you, different things like that. That's
Speaker 5: why law enforcement kind of frustrates me with this because
Speaker 5: they try to put everybody at ease, but they're not
Speaker 5: thinking about people that aren't being vigilant about what they're
Speaker 5: doing and about their surroundings. And so, you know, I
Speaker 5: wish people would be more vigilant. I don't want to
Speaker 5: scare people, Like with my video, I didn't want to
Speaker 5: scare anybody, but I wanted people to know that, you know,
Speaker 5: there's a possibility of this be vigilant.
Speaker 1: So Drew this killer killed in a fifty mile radius.
Speaker 1: You are a serial killer researcher, that's your area. What
Speaker 1: does that tell you about the potential true number of victims?
Speaker 4: Yeah, we do. We do think that it wasn't just
Speaker 4: north and south along the you know, the I ninety
Speaker 4: one corridor. We do believe that it might have also
Speaker 4: gone a little bit east to west, going from the
Speaker 4: Vermont State boarder over into Maine. There's a lot of
Speaker 4: bodies that turned up, you know, throughout central New Hampshire
Speaker 4: and Maine around the same timeframe that were similar enough
Speaker 4: to you know, get on our radar. And I know
Speaker 4: that I was talking with a family friend who was
Speaker 4: a good, good friend with a cop from Unity and
Speaker 4: the authorities in that small town also believe that there
Speaker 4: was an east to west corridor as well, that this
Speaker 4: this killer was also conducting attacks. And so but we
Speaker 4: haven't We've been pretty good with We honestly do not
Speaker 4: know who the suspect is. We are trying to identify
Speaker 4: what cases might be tied and which ones might not be. Now,
Speaker 4: if you look at the eight attacks within the Connecticut
Speaker 4: Valley cases, the similarities are definitely they're in the same
Speaker 4: area of New Hampshire and Vermont. But if you do
Speaker 4: look at each case, you're gonna find something that doesn't
Speaker 4: quite line up with another one. There might be a
Speaker 4: piece here that connects you know, the first and the
Speaker 4: second case, but then there's an outlier between them. But
Speaker 4: then there's a commonality between you know, the second and
Speaker 4: the seventh case. So we definitely look at it with
Speaker 4: an open eye, going is it one or is it
Speaker 4: possibly two? Now, when we had first start our conversation,
Speaker 4: you know, the theory of him being a hunter or
Speaker 4: a fisherman was pretty prominent. But I was definitely of
Speaker 4: the mindset of he had to have had some hunting
Speaker 4: and fishing background. And in Linda Moore's case, in particular,
Speaker 4: the woman who was attacked in her home in Bella's Falls,
Speaker 4: it was an outlier because she was attacked in her home.
Speaker 4: Everybody else was sort of in a public place. But
Speaker 4: I looked at it as from a hunter fisherman's perspective.
Speaker 4: In her home was right along a river that you
Speaker 4: could fish along, so I theorized that he was he
Speaker 4: would go out hunting. Now, whether that was driving around,
Speaker 4: I don't necessarily think it was driving around. I think
Speaker 4: you would treat it almost like he was in a
Speaker 4: deer stand. He would find a spot and sit there
Speaker 4: and wait to see if somebody would come by that
Speaker 4: would that would be within his demographics of a possible victim.
Speaker 4: And that's why I think with Linda Moore in particular,
Speaker 4: I think he was fishing along the river and as
Speaker 4: he was walking along the river, he stumbled upon her
Speaker 4: and saw her in her backyard and just he became overwhelmed,
Speaker 4: and that's why that attack happened. And we didn't find
Speaker 4: out until about a year and a half ago from
Speaker 4: the police reports that they did actually find some some
Speaker 4: twigs and branches that could have only come from the backyard.
Speaker 4: So that did sort of help kind of solidify that
Speaker 4: a little bit with you know, we do believe this
Speaker 4: is what his background.
Speaker 1: Is interesting, and you've got victims that were hitchhiking in
Speaker 1: parking lots, rest stops. It certainly would check that he
Speaker 1: waits for somebody to come into his path, almost like
Speaker 1: a deer gets in that clear and if you're in
Speaker 1: the tree stand.
Speaker 4: So yeah, exactly, and with jeans attack being aka Marlow's,
Speaker 4: it's right in, you know, right in the hometown area.
Speaker 4: So I'd drive by it countless times and I would
Speaker 4: there and kind of put myself in the position of
Speaker 4: if I was driving by and saw the car, would
Speaker 4: I pull in? Or there's enough spots in that parking
Speaker 4: lot where you could sit in a car sitting in
Speaker 4: it and nobody would even realize you were there. So
Speaker 4: I kind of put myself in that mindset of going,
Speaker 4: you know what, there is this one spot in that
Speaker 4: parking lot where you can sit in the dark, nobody
Speaker 4: can see you, but you can see traffic coming from
Speaker 4: both sides, and you can also tell if there are
Speaker 4: multiple people in the vehicle or just a single person.
Speaker 4: So in Jane's case, he would have been able to
Speaker 4: see that it was a single woman pulling into the
Speaker 4: parking lot, because we did sit down with Jane and
Speaker 4: ask her did she remember the car actually pulling into
Speaker 4: the parking lot and did she remember which anglic came
Speaker 4: in and she could not quite remember. So it's one
Speaker 4: of those where there's no clear evidence as to was
Speaker 4: he just driving by or was he possibly hanging out
Speaker 4: there in that parking lot.
Speaker 1: All right, Jane, I'm going to ask you something, and
Speaker 1: I'm going to offer you something. I happen to know
Speaker 1: the world's best forensic artist. If you would like to
Speaker 1: redo the composite, or if you would like to do
Speaker 1: what we call an age progression, I would be willing
Speaker 1: to get that done for you. So you just think
Speaker 1: about that, because if you don't think that that composite
Speaker 1: is good enough, you need to add ears, if the
Speaker 1: hair's not right, if you remember something about scars on
Speaker 1: the face or anything that we need to change, we
Speaker 1: can do that. So, Jane, I hear something about a coalition.
Speaker 1: What's that about, Honey?
Speaker 2: I think I'm going to turn that part over to
Speaker 2: Amanda because Amanda can explain it way better than I
Speaker 2: can see.
Speaker 6: Y'all.
Speaker 1: Well, that's why having a Z seven is so important.
Speaker 1: Go ahead, Amanda. We always have each other's bags, don't we.
Speaker 1: And she might have just psychically known that I had
Speaker 1: the press releases actually already printed out right here for reference,
Speaker 1: just to make sure I get the dates right.
Speaker 3: Thanks, Jane. Yeah, So with our journey, that we've been
Speaker 3: on with Invisible Tears. Obviously we have met some amazing
Speaker 3: people who are doing advocating for their family as well.
Speaker 3: So in the spring, late spring, early summer of twenty
Speaker 3: twenty three, myself, Drew and Jane combined forces with Julie Murray,
Speaker 3: who is the sister of Maura Murray, who I'm sure
Speaker 3: that a lot of people have heard of. Yes, we
Speaker 3: we adore Julie as well and her entire family. We
Speaker 3: combined forces with Julie also Shana from Light the Way.
Speaker 3: She has an amazing advocacy program where she just simply
Speaker 3: helps people that are advocating for cases. We also combined
Speaker 3: with some family members from Trish Haynes family, Valerie Haynes
Speaker 3: and Carrie and Wilson from Trish Haynes's family. And what
Speaker 3: we all did was we all got together, we all
Speaker 3: hopped on a zoom and we said, I think we
Speaker 3: need to form a group. And so what we did
Speaker 3: was we actually ended up forming the New Hampshire Coalition
Speaker 3: of Families for the Missing and Murdered and we started
Speaker 3: having annual rallies. And what we do is once a year,
Speaker 3: or right now I should say it's once a year,
Speaker 3: we gather. We do a big event mid August and
Speaker 3: we either do it in front of the capital in
Speaker 3: Conquered New Hampshire. The first one was at the Attorney
Speaker 3: General's Office, but they've since moved that so it's right
Speaker 3: in the center of Conquered New Hampshire. Gather and we
Speaker 3: speak and we simply bring visibility to all the cases
Speaker 3: that aren't solved, all the people that are missing. We
Speaker 3: welcome people speaking at it. We always make sure and
Speaker 3: invite the Attorney General's Office and any law enforcement that
Speaker 3: wants to come as well and sort of collaborate with us.
Speaker 3: But we're what we're really looking for is we're looking
Speaker 3: to raise awareness, reform the victim advocacy program, improve communication
Speaker 3: with both the state and with investigators, and really just
Speaker 3: secure justice for victims.
Speaker 1: Well, Jane, I don't think we can in this thing
Speaker 1: without talking about the absolute miracle, the hand to God
Speaker 1: moment within this case.
Speaker 5: I actually have two miracles. My daughter that I was
Speaker 5: pregnant with, she had a rough road. She had to
Speaker 5: fight for her life for quite a few weeks. She
Speaker 5: was born a blue baby, so she had no blood pressure,
Speaker 5: so but she fought for her life for a few weeks.
Speaker 5: She survived, and uh, she's my best friend and I
Speaker 5: can't imagine life without her. And she also blessed me
Speaker 5: with a granddaughter.
Speaker 7: Oh congratulations, So I have eleven year old granddaughter, which
Speaker 7: she is. She's something she's going through adolescents right now.
Speaker 2: But she's a sweetheart.
Speaker 5: She's her goal is to advocate for bullying in school.
Speaker 5: But yeah, I my daughter survived, and uh, she tries
Speaker 5: to as much as she can. She's a part of
Speaker 5: everything that we do. She's a part of the coalition's
Speaker 5: she does all her traveling with me when I go
Speaker 5: to speak at different places. And so, yeah, she's she's amazing.
Speaker 5: She's uh she's not had life easy. Uh, but she
Speaker 5: does the best that she can and I'm grateful for
Speaker 5: and she's the reason.
Speaker 2: Why I'm alive.
Speaker 5: I truly believe she wanted to live, and that's why
Speaker 5: I survived my attack.
Speaker 1: Amanda, thank you so much for joining us, for giving
Speaker 1: us your insight, and just being willing to help Jane
Speaker 1: every day. I appreciate you.
Speaker 3: Oh, of course, thank you so much. And believe me,
Speaker 3: I wouldn't I wouldn't have it any other way. I
Speaker 3: love Jane. And I protect her fiercely.
Speaker 2: Oh are you're going to make me cry?
Speaker 1: Awesome?
Speaker 3: I hope my energy is coming through hoping fail it.
Speaker 3: You have fantastic energy, you really do.
Speaker 2: I'll hear that.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna put that on my business card. And Drew, listen.
Speaker 1: I mean, I love what you're doing. I love the
Speaker 1: fact that Amanda and Jane call you the glue of
Speaker 1: what y'all are doing. I think that's a great title.
Speaker 4: Honey, thank you very much. Who's great talking to you.
Speaker 1: I don't even have words. I mean, I just not
Speaker 1: only appreciate you coming and telling your story again. I
Speaker 1: know it's not easy, but I think that's why it's
Speaker 1: so important that we get the word out that the
Speaker 1: three of you, through the Invisible Tears podcast and your
Speaker 1: coalition and your advocacy, that people need to know how
Speaker 1: to get in touch with and reach you so you
Speaker 1: can keep helping all these people. And I appreciate you.
Speaker 2: I thank you very much for.
Speaker 5: Letting us be on your show and telling my story.
Speaker 1: Y'all. I'm on end Zone seven. The way that I
Speaker 1: always is due with a quote. I was seven months pregnant,
Speaker 1: I was stabbed twenty seven times, but not one to
Speaker 1: my baby Jane Barowski. I'm Cheryl McCollum and this is
Speaker 1: Zone seven.