Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff you missed in History Class from house
Speaker 1: stuff Works dot com. Hello, welcome to the podcast, and
Speaker 1: I'm deplte a chrucate boarding and we've focused a lot
Speaker 1: on ghost stories this month for our Spooky Halloween Theories
Speaker 1: and all said, though, I think the ghosts have been
Speaker 1: a pretty diverse crowd, ranging from socialite Madame La Lourie
Speaker 1: to headless Anne Boleyn to the real life false stuff.
Speaker 1: But so far, all the ghosts we've talked about have
Speaker 1: just kind of been there. They've been haunting, They've been
Speaker 1: making their noises, doing things like hovering over babies, creepily,
Speaker 1: taking headless carriage rides, washing laundry. Kind of aimless. I'd
Speaker 1: almost say, well, washing laundry isn't exactly aimless, But okay,
Speaker 1: I get your poor ghost, I get your point right,
Speaker 1: there's no real agenda. Today's ghost, however, who is the
Speaker 1: cock Lane ghost see to have had a mission, and
Speaker 1: that was revenge, something that, according to Andrew Lang's book
Speaker 1: on Hauntings and Hoaxes, tended to be fairly common in
Speaker 1: the eighteenth century, which was an age where it wasn't
Speaker 1: unusual to believe in ghosts at all. I mean it
Speaker 1: does make sense. After all, a manufactured haunting could be
Speaker 1: a pretty simple, if creative way to settle your earthly disputes,
Speaker 1: you know, your unpaid loans, your feuds. Laying sums it
Speaker 1: up pretty well with a quote from his book when
Speaker 1: he writes about William Kent, this podcast unfortunate subject. He says,
Speaker 1: accused by a ghost, he had no legal remedy. So recently,
Speaker 1: in the Salem witch trials we talked about spectral evidence.
Speaker 1: I think this is kind of the ultimate in spectral evidence.
Speaker 1: Good point. When a ghost said that you murdered somebody. Actually,
Speaker 1: when the ghost says that you murdered it, what are
Speaker 1: you supposed to do? But before we get into all
Speaker 1: of that, we need to go back to the beginning.
Speaker 1: The cock Lane ghost wasn't initially out for blood. Its
Speaker 1: first appearance was actually pretty pretty harmless. Yeah, this ghost
Speaker 1: wasn't out for blood at least at first. It's initial
Speaker 1: appearance came in seventeen fifty nine at this tiny house
Speaker 1: on cock Lane, a road which the Oxford Dictionary of
Speaker 1: National Biography describes as quote an obscure turning near St
Speaker 1: Paul's Cathedral in London. So the home belonged to Richard Parsons,
Speaker 1: who was the deputy parish clerk of St Sepulcher's Church
Speaker 1: and also a landlord, an alcoholic, and a man pretty
Speaker 1: deeply in debt. The year before though, he'd taken in
Speaker 1: William Kent of Norfolk as a tenant. And Kent was
Speaker 1: of an independently wealthy man, but he had a bit
Speaker 1: of a family secret of his own. He was living
Speaker 1: with his dead wife's sister. The arrangement had started pretty
Speaker 1: innocently back in Norfolk, when Fannie Lyons, who was the
Speaker 1: sister in law, moved in to help care for Kent's
Speaker 1: motherless child. His wife had died during childbirth, but after
Speaker 1: the baby died to the couple continued to live together,
Speaker 1: eventually as a husband and wife, even though they weren't
Speaker 1: legally allowed to marry. So finally they moved to London,
Speaker 1: posing as a husband and wife still. But the unconventional
Speaker 1: living arrangement proved to be a bit of a liability,
Speaker 1: especially because Kent tended to make loans to his landlords,
Speaker 1: maybe a bad policy already, but to make things worse,
Speaker 1: he actually expected that he'd get the money repaid. This,
Speaker 1: of course, gave any sort of vindictive landlord, especially one
Speaker 1: who knew that he was living with his dead wife's sister,
Speaker 1: fodder for eviction and a way out of the loan potentially,
Speaker 1: So it must have seemed lucky when Kent met Parsons
Speaker 1: at St. Sepulchri's church and was offered rooms to rent.
Speaker 1: So Mr and Mrs Kent, as they thought she was anyway,
Speaker 1: gone on well with Parsons, his wife, and his two
Speaker 1: daughters for a little while, But then things started to
Speaker 1: head south when the naive Kent admitted to Parsons that
Speaker 1: he wasn't actually married after all. He also loaned Parsons
Speaker 1: a good bit of money, and then, as you mentioned,
Speaker 1: and as he had done in the past, he started
Speaker 1: to follow up on repayment fell into that same old trap. Still,
Speaker 1: though the ghosts didn't appear until Kent was out in
Speaker 1: the country on business and Fanny asked Richard parsons little
Speaker 1: eleven year old daughter, Elizabeth known as Betty, if she
Speaker 1: wanted to sleep in in her room and in her
Speaker 1: bed while Kent was gone. So that night, where when
Speaker 1: Betty and Fanny were in bed together, they started to
Speaker 1: hear strange noises wrappings, scratches, taps. Mrs Parsons must have
Speaker 1: been pretty rationally. She explained away the noises as the
Speaker 1: nearby cobbler who might have been working late at night.
Speaker 1: But when the noises were heard again on a Sunday,
Speaker 1: the family started to wonder what was really going on. Fanny,
Speaker 1: for one, seemed completely convinced that the sounds weren't from
Speaker 1: a cobbler, weren't from any human making noise. They came
Speaker 1: from a ghost, and a specific ghost at that. Yeah,
Speaker 1: she thought that they came from the ghost of her
Speaker 1: dead sister who had come to shame her and warn
Speaker 1: her of her own death. So pretty serious stuff. Richard
Speaker 1: Parsons investigated the house, even stripping the wainscoating off the
Speaker 1: wall to see if something was rattling around behind it,
Speaker 1: but he had no luck. The nightly wrappings just got louder,
Speaker 1: and it sometimes described as the sound of a cat
Speaker 1: scratching a wicker chair, just to give you an idea.
Speaker 1: But it wasn't long before the neighbors started gossiping about
Speaker 1: the ghost that lived there as well and the secret
Speaker 1: history between Mr Kent and his wife, For as they
Speaker 1: previously thought his wife well and that the ghost was
Speaker 1: her dead sister, and so with all this gossip going on,
Speaker 1: the cup bowl did finally move out of the house.
Speaker 1: At that point, the noises stopped, and according to Patrick
Speaker 1: Collins in The Forty Times, this probably would have been
Speaker 1: a good time for Kent to just throw in the towel,
Speaker 1: cut his losses, forgive the twelve guinea debt that he
Speaker 1: had lent to Parsons instead, though he threatened to sue
Speaker 1: and um. At this point, the timeline gets a little hazy,
Speaker 1: and it's understandable a lot of these a lot of
Speaker 1: the stories we talked about in October have some sketchy
Speaker 1: details about them, but depending on the sourci look at,
Speaker 1: either several months go by or up to a year
Speaker 1: and a half goes by until we catch up again
Speaker 1: with the Kent family. At this point, Fanny was heavily pregnant,
Speaker 1: died of smallpox, and the sound started again in the
Speaker 1: house back on cock Lane and and this time they
Speaker 1: seemed to come specifically from Elizabeth parsons bedside, and the
Speaker 1: Little Girl Office started to suffer from fits, and according
Speaker 1: to Charles Wild's Elliott's book, Mysteries or Glimpses of the supernatural.
Speaker 1: Little Betty described even seeing an apparition of a quote
Speaker 1: woman surrounded by a blazing light. So it's not just
Speaker 1: these knocks that could be mistaken for a cobbler anymore.
Speaker 1: It seems something much more. Richard Parsons called a medium
Speaker 1: who interrogated the ghost, asking questions and receiving answers in
Speaker 1: the form of knox one that yes and two men no.
Speaker 1: This is very reminiscent of the Fox sisters story and
Speaker 1: the way that they communicated with the ghosts, or supposedly
Speaker 1: communicated with ghosts, depending on what you believe. But maybe
Speaker 1: we should act this one out the end of I
Speaker 1: think we should. So. One of the first questions the
Speaker 1: that was asked of the ghost was are you the
Speaker 1: wife of Mr? Kent? Are you Kent's wife's sister? Did
Speaker 1: you die naturally by poison? Was anyone but Kent responsible
Speaker 1: for the poisoning? Will it ease your mind if the
Speaker 1: man be hanged? Oh? Man, Yeah, that's bad news for Kent.
Speaker 1: There the single knock meaning yes. So the ghost, who
Speaker 1: was now revealed, of course, to be the murdered Fanny
Speaker 1: Lions picked up a nickname Scratching Fanny, which an unfortunate
Speaker 1: another element to the titles of this podcast. But um,
Speaker 1: she started to give even more information, you know. This
Speaker 1: interrogation went on even further and began to provide numerous
Speaker 1: details on her death, the type of poison that had
Speaker 1: been given her it was arsenic, how it was administered
Speaker 1: through a drink called pearl, how many hours it took
Speaker 1: two to three hours, um, All sorts of details. Although interestingly,
Speaker 1: some information was apparently incorrect, I mean, aside from the
Speaker 1: fact that this lady died of smallpox clearly, but some
Speaker 1: of the details that the real Fannie Lions would have
Speaker 1: known were also incorrect. Parsons, though, was interested in in
Speaker 1: legitimizing this, seen the situation going on in his house,
Speaker 1: the haunting, the haunting, and called in John Moore, who
Speaker 1: was the assistant preacher at St. Suplker's, to get to
Speaker 1: the bottom of things, and and more believed that there
Speaker 1: truly was a spirit present and called on a fellow minister,
Speaker 1: Thomas Broughton, for confirmation. And after these two guys were
Speaker 1: on board with the idea of a haunting, other esteemed
Speaker 1: men started to visit to which lended a lot of
Speaker 1: legitimacy to the the entire premise. The public ledger even
Speaker 1: wrote up the story, and crowds began to form at
Speaker 1: the house every night, So it was something of a spectacle,
Speaker 1: and the public began to truly believe that Kent was
Speaker 1: a murderer. So this guy who they've never heard of before,
Speaker 1: who nobody suspected of murdering his wife up until this
Speaker 1: point his wife quotes, uh, suddenly is being accused of murder,
Speaker 1: like pretty seriously. So as interests grew, Parsons could begin
Speaker 1: to charge admittance to these seances that would be conducted
Speaker 1: at his home by his relative Mary Fraser. And the
Speaker 1: best members of society, of course, got bedside views. I mean,
Speaker 1: this was a real attraction. Wasn't just something you'd read
Speaker 1: about in the paper. You'd go out and experienced this yourself.
Speaker 1: But if you were one of the better members of society,
Speaker 1: you would get to pack in right next to little
Speaker 1: Betty's bed and watch and wait while she slept and
Speaker 1: see if the ghost visited. It's all. It adds an
Speaker 1: extra element of disturbing um scenes to this whole story.
Speaker 1: It's just wild to me. I mean, I have to wonder,
Speaker 1: how did she even sleep? Well, these people standing around you.
Speaker 1: You wonder how, Yes, an eleven or twelve year old
Speaker 1: girl got a full night's sleep with all these people
Speaker 1: in her house every day, but the just as an
Speaker 1: example of the kind of people these sciances did attract.
Speaker 1: The Duke of York even attended at one point. Um
Speaker 1: Eliott's book, though, has a really good account of one
Speaker 1: of the sciences. It is from a skeptics perspective, but
Speaker 1: it gives you a sense of what it must have
Speaker 1: been like coming into this tiny house, into this tiny room,
Speaker 1: and watching this kid sleep, hoping a ghost would appear. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Horace Walpole, a master of Gothic horror and author of
Speaker 1: The Castle of a Toronto, visited one night with friends
Speaker 1: after the opera. He wrote of the ghost in seventeen
Speaker 1: sixty two. He said, quote, a drunken parish clerk set
Speaker 1: it on foot out of revenge. The Methodists have adopted it,
Speaker 1: and the whole town of London think of nothing else.
Speaker 1: He then described the house on Cock Lane when we
Speaker 1: opened the chamber, in which were fifty people with no
Speaker 1: light but one Hello candle. At the end, we tumbled
Speaker 1: over the bed of the child, to whom the ghost
Speaker 1: comes and whom they are murdering by inches in such
Speaker 1: insufferable heat and stench, we heard nothing. He stayed until
Speaker 1: one thirty am, but was told that the ghosts might
Speaker 1: not come until seven, when, as Walpole put it, only
Speaker 1: prentices and old women would still be about. So he
Speaker 1: was very dismissive. And and this tactic too, seemed to
Speaker 1: be a common one, you know, delaying the ghosts. Oh,
Speaker 1: it's it's not gonna be here until seven, So if
Speaker 1: you want to stick around all night, be my guy.
Speaker 1: He's already paid admittance, or just throwing off the crowd entirely.
Speaker 1: One description of a seance has Frasier putting Betty to
Speaker 1: bed and then about an hour later, running around asking
Speaker 1: Fanny to to emerge, to show herself or make herself heard. Then,
Speaker 1: when nothing happened, more than the minister told the crowd
Speaker 1: that they were just too loud. They needed to quiet down,
Speaker 1: They needed to step out for about ten minutes and
Speaker 1: just collect themselves. Of course, when they came back, sure enough,
Speaker 1: scratching Fanny was also there, the ghost making her her
Speaker 1: presence known. So these little tactics of tricking or delaying
Speaker 1: or distracting the crowd that had come to see the ghost.
Speaker 1: So finally, with the situation that has come out of
Speaker 1: people believing in this ghost so much, I mean, on
Speaker 1: one hand, you have the mob which is spoiling for
Speaker 1: Kent's punishment, and you have the crowds also gathering outside
Speaker 1: the Parsons home, and both of these things together drive
Speaker 1: the Lord Mayor to order a special investigation. Reverend Aldrich
Speaker 1: of St John's Clerk Andwell assembled a company at his
Speaker 1: home where Elizabeth had been moved. At ten, she was
Speaker 1: put to bed by a group of women, and a
Speaker 1: bit after eleven, that group, which included Dr Samuel Johnson,
Speaker 1: came to her bedside and waited for the spirit. The
Speaker 1: little girl said she could feel the spirit, but no
Speaker 1: noises came, and so Dr Johnson declared that the whole
Speaker 1: thing was a hoax, wrote an account of it, published
Speaker 1: that in the Gentleman's Magazine. And it was really the
Speaker 1: beginning of the end for this idea of of a ghost.
Speaker 1: And poor Betty, of course, wasn't off the hook though.
Speaker 1: Of Elizabeth um she was moved again, put through all
Speaker 1: sorts of tests. She was at one point strung up
Speaker 1: in a hammock with her feet and hands drawn away
Speaker 1: from her body, you know, to prove she wouldn't be
Speaker 1: able to make any sounds. And after scratching Fanny, the
Speaker 1: ghost failed to make an appearance. Several nights in a
Speaker 1: row after these tests, Betty was threatened pretty clearly that
Speaker 1: her father would go to prison if she could not,
Speaker 1: um call up the ghost. And that did the trick.
Speaker 1: I mean, that night the girl was caught smuggling aboard
Speaker 1: under her clothes and trying to make noises with it
Speaker 1: in an attempt to save her family to stop her
Speaker 1: father from going to prison. UM which, after that point
Speaker 1: clearly the ghost hoax was over. Although one interesting note,
Speaker 1: A lot of people who had heard the earlier noises
Speaker 1: said that the ones that Betty had made with the
Speaker 1: board under her clothes, which were clearly manufactured, were entirely different.
Speaker 1: The two sounds were entirely different from each other. UM,
Speaker 1: either suggesting a ghost had been making the first ones
Speaker 1: and poor Betty had just been pressured this final time
Speaker 1: into trying to save her family when the ghost wouldn't
Speaker 1: really show up, or more likely, UM Betty had had
Speaker 1: some other means of manufacturing the sound earlier. She was
Speaker 1: right to be scared though, because her family did end
Speaker 1: up being pretty uh strongly punished for for what had happened.
Speaker 1: Right in July sev sixty two, Richard Parsons, his wife,
Speaker 1: and Mary Fraser were all tried and convicted of conspiracy.
Speaker 1: More the clergyman, as well as a tradesman named James,
Speaker 1: who was believed to have assisted in this deception, were
Speaker 1: also convicted, although they got off with reprimands and the
Speaker 1: order to pay kent to settle meant Fraser and Mrs
Speaker 1: Parsons received hard labor and Mr Parson's got two years
Speaker 1: in prison and three appearances in the pillory. So it's
Speaker 1: a testament to how many people still believed in the ghosts,
Speaker 1: though that the crowd at the pillory was unusually quiet
Speaker 1: each time, and the public actually raised a subscription for
Speaker 1: the family. And I was surprised by this because I
Speaker 1: would think that the public, having bought into this idea
Speaker 1: of a ghost so thoroughly, would be maybe embarrassed and
Speaker 1: angry at this guy for tricking them and for trying
Speaker 1: to profit. But the more I thought about it, the
Speaker 1: more I thought, well, if you if you admit that
Speaker 1: you've been fooled by this hoax, then you look like
Speaker 1: a fool. If you consider this guy as a poor,
Speaker 1: unfortunate soul who's being unfairly punished when there really was
Speaker 1: a ghost in his home, then I guess you're something
Speaker 1: else entirely. But you can kind of get yourself off
Speaker 1: the hook that way. The ghosts really did stick around
Speaker 1: in the public's imagination to the Oh. It kind of
Speaker 1: like the Mary Toft bunny birth hooks that we talked
Speaker 1: about on an earlier podcast, and which was about a
Speaker 1: generation or so before this became real shorthand for gullibility, uh,
Speaker 1: just falling for things too easily. And um, I guess
Speaker 1: while we're talking about Mary Mary tofton you mentioned the
Speaker 1: Sister's Fox earlier. It does. It's so reminiscent of the
Speaker 1: Sister's Fox story with the tappings and the wrappings and
Speaker 1: the girls playing tricks on people. Um, but I kind
Speaker 1: of think of it more in the spirit of the
Speaker 1: Merry Tought bunny births because the Sister's Fox one is
Speaker 1: so it's the beginning of that spiritualist movement of the
Speaker 1: nineteenth century. It's kind of a different era than this.
Speaker 1: This is really in the hoax generation on the um
Speaker 1: and and like I said, you know, with the public
Speaker 1: being interested in it, people found opportunities to benefit from
Speaker 1: it as well, in a satirical sort of way. Charles
Speaker 1: Churchill wrote a satire local poem about it called The Ghost.
Speaker 1: William Hogarth, who was a famous illustrator, engrave the scene
Speaker 1: of a seance at Elizabeth's bedside so people could indulge
Speaker 1: in something like this, indulge in a hopes knowing that
Speaker 1: it wasn't true. That was part of the fun, being
Speaker 1: able to say, how could anybody fall for this? I
Speaker 1: sure didn't. One of the other things that's very reminiscent
Speaker 1: of the Sister's Fox story is that it's still unclear
Speaker 1: exactly what was making these knocking or rapping sounds. Uh.
Speaker 1: Some suggest that it was ventriloquism, And of course later
Speaker 1: there was the board that was introduced, so maybe that
Speaker 1: played a part in it. I guess. Probably the only
Speaker 1: one who knows for sure, at least about the board
Speaker 1: part of it is Elizabeth Parsons, but little is known
Speaker 1: about her later life. She probably got married twice, the
Speaker 1: second time to a gardener, but we don't know much
Speaker 1: of the detail. I mean, what a ridiculous childhood. She right,
Speaker 1: I'm imagining maybe she'd be eager to put that behind
Speaker 1: after so much, after the crowd, the Duke of York
Speaker 1: at your bedside when you're eleven, trying to wait for
Speaker 1: ghosts to appear, that she probably got a lot better sleep.
Speaker 1: She probably spent most of her later life catching up
Speaker 1: on sleep. We can we can think of it that way.
Speaker 1: One thing I came across while while looking into this story,
Speaker 1: it sounds like it might be sort of the Madame
Speaker 1: Lo Loori equivalent in London. So you know, we talked
Speaker 1: about that being the quintessential ghost story you hear if
Speaker 1: you go on like a ghost tour of New Orleans.
Speaker 1: So I'd really like to hear from our London listeners
Speaker 1: or anybody who's even just visited and taking a ghost tour.
Speaker 1: Is this something that is still a big deal there?
Speaker 1: Because I hadn't heard of this ghost until pretty recently. Neither.
Speaker 1: It's it's an interesting one and one that does tie
Speaker 1: in pretty clearly to a lot of our other shows though,
Speaker 1: and Scratching Fanny. I think Scratching Fanny makes a fun
Speaker 1: addition to this little family of ghosts that we've collected
Speaker 1: this month. So far, it sounds like it would be
Speaker 1: a good um like humorous band or something. What would
Speaker 1: you call it, like a parody parody musician or something.
Speaker 1: Maybe I also really like accused by a ghost. If
Speaker 1: we're going to talk about band name, I think accused
Speaker 1: by a ghost you could do all novelty Halloween music.
Speaker 1: Maybe that's what we'll be doing next year, to novelty
Speaker 1: Halloween music, Halloween music all month long, promising. Alright, so
Speaker 1: what do we have for listener mail this week? Sarah?
Speaker 1: We have turn up themed mail. I'm sure that's intriguing
Speaker 1: to you because you don't know what I'm talking about. No,
Speaker 1: I haven't no idea what you're talking about. That is true.
Speaker 1: So Kristen and I, as you know, did an episode
Speaker 1: on the history of trick or treating and probably my
Speaker 1: favorite fact from that episode was that before people carved
Speaker 1: pumpkin into jack lantern, they carved turn up and we
Speaker 1: yes and difficult to carve. We speculated over that being difficult,
Speaker 1: and sure enough we did hear from a few listeners
Speaker 1: confirming our suspicion. The first one is Derek in Dublin, Ireland.
Speaker 1: He wrote, uh, He wrote in an email and said,
Speaker 1: greetings from Ireland. I'm a big fan of the podcast
Speaker 1: after discovering it over the summer and raiding the massive
Speaker 1: archives to keep me awake on long drives. I was
Speaker 1: also delighted when you covered the history of Halloween on
Speaker 1: a recent episode, not least because you looked at the
Speaker 1: tradition of using turnips as jack lantern. A couple of
Speaker 1: years ago, my father in law decided to revive this tradition,
Speaker 1: much to his family's amusement. There are a few pros
Speaker 1: and cons he learned to using a turnip. First of all,
Speaker 1: it takes a lot more effort to carve a face
Speaker 1: into the turnip he was whittling away for at least
Speaker 1: a couple hours. Also, over the course of the night,
Speaker 1: it actually cooked from the heat of the candle. That
Speaker 1: was really funny too. On the plus side, this made
Speaker 1: it look genuinely scary in the window. By midnight it
Speaker 1: looked rather like a head hunter trophy with a little
Speaker 1: bit of smoke for extra creepiness. I asked him for
Speaker 1: any advice to pass on to your listeners. He said
Speaker 1: would be turn up. Listeners should get a big round
Speaker 1: E one quote and be prepared for some tough carving,
Speaker 1: so that was good practical information. We also got a
Speaker 1: note though from David. This was actually a Facebook comment.
Speaker 1: I thought it would be fun to throw one of
Speaker 1: those in. He was also writing in on turn ups
Speaker 1: and he said you mentioned that in the past people
Speaker 1: holid out turn ups instead of pumpkins and speculated that
Speaker 1: it must have been tough. I can confirm that they
Speaker 1: are incredibly difficult to hollow out. Growing up in England
Speaker 1: in the nineteen seventies, pumpkins were exotic and expensive items,
Speaker 1: so most children hollowed out turn ups. There were lots
Speaker 1: of injured hands from the knife flipping on the incredibly
Speaker 1: tough flesh of the turnip. It took hours to hollow
Speaker 1: out and craft good turnip head. Oh my gosh. Many
Speaker 1: years later, when I hollowed out my first pumpkin, I
Speaker 1: couldn't believe how easy it was. It was like a
Speaker 1: light went on thing. Now this is how it's supposed
Speaker 1: to be Nowadays in England, children hollow up pumpkins for Halloween.
Speaker 1: They don't know how lucky they are. So I thought
Speaker 1: that both of these messages from Derek and from David
Speaker 1: were pretty hilarious. Makes you appreciate pumpkins a lot. I
Speaker 1: know it makes me appreciate my life of carving pumpkins
Speaker 1: and working with gourds instead of tough root vegetables. Yeah,
Speaker 1: especially if you're like me and you have a lot
Speaker 1: of mess ups or you end up forgetting and wait
Speaker 1: too long to carve your pumpkin and then you have
Speaker 1: to come up with a lot of pumpkin recipes. Sounds
Speaker 1: better to me than having to come up with a
Speaker 1: lot of turn up recipes. I like turn up, I
Speaker 1: like them, but I definitely prefer pumpkins if I'm going
Speaker 1: to go all out. Turn ups are good when they
Speaker 1: are small. And I'm guessing, as the advice that we
Speaker 1: got from Derek's father in law, that would not make
Speaker 1: a good carving turn up. So if you just for
Speaker 1: to carve your turnips one year tough black well, if
Speaker 1: you have any more helpful advice for us on how
Speaker 1: to use our fall vegetables or you know Halloween traditions
Speaker 1: in your area of the world, please write us where
Speaker 1: at History podcast at Discovery dot com, or you can
Speaker 1: look us up on Facebook and we're also on Twitter
Speaker 1: at this in History. Also, if you want to learn
Speaker 1: a little bit more about ghosts or ghostbusters. I think
Speaker 1: Didlina almost cracked up a few times because I said
Speaker 1: lines that sounded a little bit like they could be
Speaker 1: out of Ghostbusters. We do have articles on boat. We do.
Speaker 1: We have how ghost work and how Ghostbusters work, and
Speaker 1: you can look them up by visit your homepage at www.
Speaker 1: Dot how stuff works dot com for more on this
Speaker 1: and thousands of other topics. Is it how stuff works
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